**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Jan 08 02:59:56 2008
Jan 08 08:44:57 <cutmasta> mornin
Jan 08 17:01:56 <Lede> hello folks
Jan 08 17:02:57 <codev> hey
Jan 08 17:04:07 <codev> how's it going
Jan 08 17:04:40 <Lede> tired, doing internship 45 hours a week :/
Jan 08 17:04:57 <Lede> how are you? :)
Jan 08 17:05:53 <codev> good! where are you interning? and whats your field?
Jan 08 17:08:07 <Lede> codev: a small company that does everything from system administration to webhosting
Jan 08 17:08:14 <codev> cool!
Jan 08 17:08:18 <codev> how old are you?
Jan 08 17:08:30 <Lede> 19
Jan 08 17:08:31 <davidw> hi dims - have you been assimilated yet?
Jan 08 17:08:35 <Lede> codev: you/
Jan 08 17:08:37 <Lede> ?
Jan 08 17:08:39 <codev> 22 :(
Jan 08 17:08:45 <dims> davidw: almost there! :)
Jan 08 17:08:45 <codev> I'm still in school for CompSci
Jan 08 17:09:03 <codev> I graduated in fine arts (bach.) and then went to compsci
Jan 08 17:09:09 <codev> so I'm a little late to the party :-D
Jan 08 17:09:12 <Lede> codev: i wan't to study computer science when i get out of this crap school :p
Jan 08 17:09:40 <codev> what's your major?
Jan 08 17:10:18 <Lede> i don't have one, i live in the netherlands so your system is probably very different
Jan 08 17:11:06 <codev> I'm sure it is
Jan 08 17:14:42 * davidw thinks programming is something you learn by doing...better to study something secondary that's harder to learn outside of school, like economics, or science of some other kind, maybe
Jan 08 17:15:33 <codev> davidw, I agree with programming..but some of the compsci stuff I can't learn by myself
Jan 08 17:15:44 <codev> example, R-Tree formationsin relation to GIS searching
Jan 08 17:16:14 <Lede> i'm not really interested in programming only, knowing more about algorithms and such is what attracts me
Jan 08 17:16:22 <codev> same here
Jan 08 17:16:26 <codev> I hate programming lol
Jan 08 17:16:56 <Lede> a programming language should just be a tool to do something
Jan 08 17:17:51 <codev> I'm trying to help someone install Gentoo..it's terrible :-/
Jan 08 17:18:02 <Lede> heh gentoo
Jan 08 17:18:35 <davidw> you can learn theory on your own pretty well too
Jan 08 17:19:19 <codev> lol I'm definitely not going to learn affine transforms on my own..maybe you're a lot smarter than I am
Jan 08 17:19:39 <codev> Lede, have you ever done GIS searching?
Jan 08 17:19:44 <Lede> no
Jan 08 17:19:57 <codev> darrnn
Jan 08 17:20:01 <Lede> i got a book called introduction to algorithms and only read the first chapters
Jan 08 17:20:17 <Lede> so i only about sorting :>
Jan 08 17:20:21 <Lede> +know
Jan 08 17:20:25 <codev> hah easy stuff :)
Jan 08 17:21:33 * jasta yawns
Jan 08 17:22:29 <Lede> oh wait, i also read the chapter on NP-completeness
Jan 08 17:25:11 <Lede> i pounderd a couple weeks on how one can solve SAT problems in polynomial time without success
Jan 08 17:27:49 <codev> ahah
Jan 08 17:28:15 <Lede> .)
Jan 08 17:29:22 <codev> you guys use Maven?
Jan 08 17:55:08 <davidw> codev, you know about gis and grass and the like?
Jan 08 17:55:24 <codev> davidw, some why?
Jan 08 17:55:41 <codev> even though grass is giving me compile issues with GDAL version i got on AMD64 :-/
Jan 08 17:56:08 <davidw> looking for an easy to use program in order to do some basic fiddling with a Shape file
Jan 08 17:56:20 <codev> hmm..
Jan 08 17:56:26 <codev> Hmm
Jan 08 17:56:34 <codev> I mean, i usually do it procedurally
Jan 08 17:56:59 <codev> I've used JGrass before though and that works..but I think they branched into Grass
Jan 08 17:58:03 <codev> Oh, you know what program I use.. uDig
Jan 08 17:58:08 <codev> davidw, have you tried uDig
Jan 08 17:59:20 <codev> davidw, http://www.asifanyonecares.com/2007/10/opensource-gis-software.html
Jan 08 18:06:34 * davidw has a look
Jan 08 18:07:40 <Lede> asifanyonecares.com <- how fitting
Jan 08 18:08:30 <codev> :-P
Jan 08 18:31:09 <jasta> hmmmm
Jan 08 18:34:55 <codev> anyone use Hibernate with GIS spatial support?
Jan 08 18:34:58 <codev> postgis**
Jan 08 18:54:53 <jasta> romainguy__: http://www.flickr.com/photos/romainguy/2098369909/ -- that is a gorgeous picture.
Jan 08 18:55:51 <romainguy> thanks :)
Jan 08 18:56:02 <davidw> shore is purdy
Jan 08 18:56:25 <Lede> it looks edited
Jan 08 18:56:58 <Lede> romainguy: did you edit it?
Jan 08 18:57:09 <romainguy> which one?
Jan 08 18:57:33 <Lede> forest sunset
Jan 08 18:57:57 <Lede> or some sort of filter
Jan 08 18:58:27 <romainguy> I used a circular polarizer and a neutral gradient
Jan 08 18:59:08 <davidw> I think I camped not too terribly far from where that was taken
Jan 08 18:59:34 <Lede> romainguy: ok (not that i know what that is :p)
Jan 08 18:59:37 <romainguy> davidw: You can see the exact location on Flickr, I geotagged it
Jan 08 19:00:37 <romainguy> Lede: Basically, the polarizer makes colors a bit more saturated and the neutral gradient blocks the light gradually from top to bottom; that helps capturing a scene like this with a bright light (the sun) and dark shadows (the forest) and still have a good exposure over the whole picture
Jan 08 19:01:02 <davidw> romainguy, uhm...where's that on the page?
Jan 08 19:01:10 <Lede> nice, didnt know you could do that
Jan 08 19:01:17 <davidw> map
Jan 08 19:01:19 <davidw> there we go
Jan 08 19:01:19 <romainguy> davidw: there's a very tiny (map) link
Jan 08 19:02:06 <romainguy> go to go
Jan 08 19:02:08 <romainguy> see you guys
Jan 08 19:02:29 <Lede> later romainguy
Jan 08 19:06:10 <jasonlee> jasta: i like your RSS reader, seeing if i can borrow any ideas from it =)
Jan 08 19:07:08 <jasta> you can do whatever you want with it, so long as what you do is GPL :)
Jan 08 19:10:28 <jasonlee> i'm just trying to figure out how to do a ProgressDialog, your code is a nice example (when you add a new feed)
Jan 08 19:12:55 <Lede> ApiDemos has examples of almost everything
Jan 08 19:12:57 <jasta> it is so hard to find public libraries that can be used with Android.  everything Java developers do tends to be so fucking inefficient and bloated.
Jan 08 19:14:53 <davidw> jasta, look for j2me stuff
Jan 08 19:15:13 <codev> what kind of libs.
Jan 08 19:15:16 <codev> and yes..you're right :-D
Jan 08 19:15:21 <codev> lol look at axis2
Jan 08 19:15:38 <codev> i created a stub from a WSDL last weekend...2 minutes to create stub
Jan 08 19:16:01 <codev> then genned a stub for a C program using a C lib related to libxml2 and it was about 2 seconds
Jan 08 19:19:38 <jasonlee> i can get a progress dialog to open up, but it instantly closes.. =(
Jan 08 19:20:19 <jasonlee> shouldn't it hang around until i call cancel() or something?
Jan 08 19:24:06 <dims> codev: delete the jalopy jar and try again. should take much less time (only that the code will not be formatted well)
Jan 08 19:24:47 <codev> K!
Jan 08 19:25:13 <codev> what does it do?
Jan 08 19:29:24 <dims> jalopy is a java code formatter - http://jalopy.sourceforge.net/
Jan 08 20:25:45 <jerkface03> lol looks like jalopy has a plugin for everything except netbeans
Jan 08 21:52:47 <davidw> I'm definitely hitting a 'stumped' kind of feeling with all this marshalling that's supposed to go on
Jan 08 21:53:21 <jasta> in android?
Jan 08 21:53:25 <davidw> yeah
Jan 08 21:53:32 <jasta> what specifically?
Jan 08 21:53:52 <davidw> well...Hecl has an interpreter
Jan 08 21:54:12 <davidw> marshalling it in and out here and there looks to be a losing proposition
Jan 08 21:54:36 <Lede> what?
Jan 08 21:55:31 <davidw> what what?
Jan 08 21:55:46 <Lede> what are you talking about..
Jan 08 21:57:06 <davidw> android and Hecl
Jan 08 22:01:20 <davidw> Lede, Hecl has an interpreter that is a reasonably big data structure, with a variety of things hanging off it, including, ultimately, references to things like GUI components.  I'm not even sure if it would be possible to marshal the whole thing
Jan 08 22:03:50 <romainguy> re
Jan 08 22:10:49 <davidw> pretty much any interpreted language is going to work that way
Jan 08 22:18:18 <davidw> sigh... sleep time for me in any case
Jan 08 22:18:36 <jasta> romainguy: were you the on i was talking to about asynchronize service communication?  i lost the log that demonstrated how this could be accomplished with the current SDK
Jan 08 22:18:41 <jasta> one*
Jan 08 22:18:54 <jasta> asynchronous*, too :)
Jan 08 23:25:03 <romainguy> jasta: I don't remember anything like this no
Jan 08 23:26:16 <jasta> Man, my ADC project is going to be complex :)
Jan 08 23:26:59 <romainguy> ADC?
Jan 08 23:27:02 <jasta> I'm envisioning that to implement it correctly I will need 2 separate projects, one shared ContentProvider implemented elsewhere more generically, and then an intermediate database in one of the projects to manage extra meta data on top of the contentprovider.
Jan 08 23:27:10 <jasta> android dev challenge.
Jan 08 23:27:36 <Essington> hmm
Jan 08 23:27:55 <jasta> romainguy: Will there be a ContentProvider written by Google for generic media?  Music files, etc?  Or should I implement my own for the challenge?
Jan 08 23:28:25 <romainguy> I'll forward your question :)
Jan 08 23:28:39 <Essington> how about an android application that uses the XML feed from guitarhero.com to track the online progress of players?
Jan 08 23:28:43 <Essington> :-)
Jan 08 23:29:28 <jasta> I ideally would like to have my music application use a shared database of local media as well as the extended cache implementation.
Jan 08 23:29:49 <jasta> So that other media-playback interfaces could take advantage of the offline cache wherever possible.
Jan 08 23:30:01 <jasta> without implementing that specific to my application, of course.
Jan 08 23:30:12 <jasta> i honestly am probably overengineering this, though.
Jan 08 23:30:24 <romainguy> jasta: Java programmers tend to do that :)
Jan 08 23:30:39 <jasta> Good thing I don't identify with Java programmers :)
Jan 08 23:30:44 <jasta> I am a C programmer, who knows Java :)
Jan 08 23:31:08 <romainguy> apparently you're becoming one
Jan 08 23:31:19 <jasta> Don't say that.
Jan 08 23:31:41 <jasta> At least in the context of Android, thinking in C is much healthier :)
Jan 08 23:31:55 <romainguy> I like C a lot
Jan 08 23:32:00 <romainguy> but I like Java a lot too
Jan 08 23:33:04 <jasta> I have a complicated relationship with C.
Jan 08 23:33:38 <jasta> If we're talking value judgments, I'd say I like Java more.
Jan 08 23:33:50 <romainguy> I'd say it just depends on what you're working on
Jan 08 23:34:03 <romainguy> I do mostly UIs, and I just don't want to write UIs in C :)
Jan 08 23:34:15 <jasta> But C has a grip that just won't let go.  Also, I'm a rare breed of folks that have actually read (and understood) the ANSI C standard.
Jan 08 23:34:22 <jasta> Both old and new :)
Jan 08 23:53:25 <jasta> romainguy: Do ContentProvider instances run in the same thread as their usage or is there some IPC happening there as well?
Jan 08 23:53:50 <jasta> It seems like it might be a neat place to actually perform network operations to retrieve content.
Jan 08 23:55:17 <romainguy> I would say it depends on the ContentProvider implementation
Jan 08 23:55:37 <romainguy> Didn't you mean process instead of thread?
Jan 08 23:57:27 <jasta> Actually I did mean thread, but I didn't mean to call it IPC.
Jan 08 23:57:46 <jasta> I'm asking if it would be appropriate for a ContentProvider to exist that blocks the current thread of execution.
Jan 08 23:58:06 <jasta> For example, to request data from the network.
Jan 08 23:59:33 <jasta> I imagine creating a caching ContentProvider which offers an on-demand interface for other applications to use.  Imagine implementing a web service or something using a ContentProvider as a sort of library.
Jan 08 23:59:57 <jasta> Not sure if that fits the grand design of ContentProviders, though.
Jan 09 00:00:47 <jasta> it be neat to implement something like say content://weather/Seattle and query out temp and conditions.
Jan 09 00:00:52 <jasta> or whatever.
Jan 09 00:01:01 <jasta> it would be*
Jan 09 00:01:04 <romainguy> Hmm I am not the right person to ask these questions to
Jan 09 00:01:10 <romainguy> Unfortunately :)
Jan 09 00:01:22 <jasta> Who would be? :)
Jan 09 00:01:32 <romainguy> You can ask hackbod on the newsgroup
Jan 09 00:01:39 <romainguy> Or Dan Morill here
Jan 09 00:01:47 <jasta> Sure.
Jan 09 00:04:21 <romainguy> Sorry about that :)
Jan 09 00:04:44 <jasta> It's OK.  I needed to rethink my question anyway so that it is not quite so stupid.
Jan 09 00:39:09 <romainguy> jasta: regarding your question about a media content provider, here is an answer: "There is a media content provider already. It holds the metadata for the media in a sqlite database."
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Wed Jan 09 02:59:58 2008