**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Jan 18 02:59:57 2008
Jan 18 03:46:09 <zhobbs> do I have to choose "android" in the run as dialog everytime I hit the run button?  it's annoying...
Jan 18 04:39:33 <jasta> zhobbs: no?
Jan 18 10:59:16 <pekayatt> Hi, anyone can giveme some reasons why is better use GLView than View to an opengl activty :P
Jan 18 21:33:40 <winksaville> quiet today, must be Friday:)
Jan 18 21:34:12 <romainguy__> hmm Friday...
Jan 18 21:34:44 <winksaville> An Adam P just asked for peer-2-peer communication
Jan 18 21:35:12 <winksaville> this is certainly something I want to do, but we don't seem to getting much help
Jan 18 21:35:39 <winksaville> is this just a matter of priority or is it not going to be supported?
Jan 18 21:36:56 <romainguy__> What do you mean by supported?
Jan 18 21:38:52 <winksaville> I've been unable to make an android have an IP address on my local network so that another android could communicate via TCP
Jan 18 21:41:15 <winksaville> See http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers/browse_frm/thread/d4daee6d73cb9893# as an approach
Jan 18 21:43:01 <jasta> i told you a way around this already.  it's so simple i don't know why you're struggling with qemu ;)
Jan 18 21:43:23 <jasta> and it has nothing to do with "having an IP address", it's about which interface qemu listens on.
Jan 18 21:44:06 <winksaville> Do you mean a proxy?
Jan 18 21:45:02 <jasta> Yes.  If a program refuses to listen on the interface you want, it's trivial to just use a proxy to listen on another interface.
Jan 18 21:45:14 <jasta> but, you wouldn't even necessarily need a proxy.  even iptables could do this :)
Jan 18 21:45:24 <jasta> hell, you could nat eth0 to lo :)
Jan 18 21:45:43 <jasta> although, i suspect there is a way to make qemu just simply bind to all interface, or to one you specify.
Jan 18 21:46:03 * Lede waits for bug fixes
Jan 18 21:46:47 <jasta> in fact, i'm sick of this conversation.  i'm gonna go figure out how.
Jan 18 21:47:11 <winksaville> Actually, I know the proxy technique will work and I'll be doing that
Jan 18 21:47:19 <romainguy__> Lede: what bug fixes?
Jan 18 21:47:40 <Lede> romainguy__: the layout thing
Jan 18 21:47:54 <romainguy__> What is the "layout thing"?
Jan 18 21:48:19 <Lede> don't you read the newsgroup?
Jan 18 21:48:29 <Lede> i even gave you a link to it yesterday
Jan 18 21:48:32 <romainguy__> I do but I don't remember every single message
Jan 18 21:48:44 <Lede> oh you are "bussy"
Jan 18 21:51:48 <winksaville> jasta: thanks for the additional tips
Jan 18 21:52:27 <winksaville> I keep heaing talke about the next SDK release, when's it due?
Jan 18 21:52:53 <romainguy__> Lede: Yes, I am very busy and I also read all the messages on the newsgroup, so I don't remember all of them without specific details :)
Jan 18 21:53:59 <winksaville> Actually, I should ask; hours, days, weeks, months. Inquiring minds would like to know:)
Jan 18 21:55:03 <romainguy__> winksaville: You'll know when it becomes public information :)
Jan 18 21:56:11 <Lede> romainguy__: here it is again: http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers/browse_thread/thread/fffa6ebed1506170/84240fba6ae54060?lnk=gst&q=bug+report#84240fba6ae54060
Jan 18 21:56:30 <romainguy__> Thanks
Jan 18 21:58:07 <romainguy__> Lede: Ah yes, as I told  you, I forwarded the link to the competent engineers
Jan 18 21:58:27 <Lede> when will we expect it getting fixed?
Jan 18 21:59:20 <romainguy__> It depends on the priority we will assign to this problem and on how much available time the responsible engineers have
Jan 18 21:59:36 <romainguy__> The short answer is then: I have no idea
Jan 18 21:59:42 <Lede> heh, ok
Jan 18 22:00:55 <Lede> romainguy__: when can we atleast expect a new SDK update?
Jan 18 22:01:10 <romainguy__> Lede: You'll know when it becomes public information
Jan 18 22:06:41 <Lede> romainguy__: for a "open" platform everything sure seems closed and locked
Jan 18 22:08:47 <Lede> romainguy__: can you comment on that?
Jan 18 22:10:55 <cybereagle> they haven't done an official "full" release yet which i suppose is why
Jan 18 22:12:20 <Lede> if it would have been open already things might get fixed faster and updated more frequently
Jan 18 22:13:16 <cybereagle> the public bug tracking system and integrating it with the internal flow seem to be the sticking point. i'd say if its planned as an open project that should have been thought about earlier. but eh, they'll fix it
Jan 18 22:13:44 <Lede> i doubt anything will get fixed anytime soon to be honest
Jan 18 22:20:20 <jasta> romainguy__: can we assume that judging of our adc projects will be on a particular operating system?  i plan to provide instructions on how to get it up and running, but i only care to describe how to do it on Linux :)
Jan 18 22:21:15 <xbit> that's probably okay, things are usually easier and don't need a complicated description in windows :)
Jan 18 22:21:34 <jasta> well, sort of.
Jan 18 22:21:59 <romainguy__> jasta: Does your application depend on the underlying OS?
Jan 18 22:22:29 <jasta> romainguy__: In a way, yes.  There is a server component, which will initially be implemented as a daemon running on POSIX hosts.
Jan 18 22:22:58 <jasta> But I intend to port that portion of it, and provide a Windows shell on top of it.
Jan 18 22:23:29 <jasta> At least, that will be an obvious thing to do.  Maybe I personally won't do it :)
Jan 18 22:24:26 <jasta> i'm not going to make any effort to run that daemon portion on Windows until after the submission deadline in march.
Jan 18 22:27:45 <jasta> romainguy__: your silence is troubling ;)
Jan 18 22:27:54 <romainguy__> jasta: I'm trying to fix bugs :)
Jan 18 22:28:04 <romainguy__> And my answer is: I don't know, ask morrildl :)
Jan 18 22:30:31 <jasta> well, carry on.  i can tell a release is coming soon by the way you're ignoring me hehe
Jan 18 22:31:43 <Lede> romainguy__: no answer to my last question?
Jan 18 22:32:09 <Lede> or morrildl if you are present
Jan 18 22:32:22 <jasta> i sincerely hope that when Android source is revealed, the GIT or SVN repository is simply opened up so we can see all the whacky history comments ;0
Jan 18 22:32:40 <jasta> things like "oh that whiny asshole on the forum just won't shut up about this" :)
Jan 18 22:36:26 <romainguy__> Lede: "can you comment on that?" this question?
Jan 18 22:36:34 <romainguy__> No, I have no comment on that
Jan 18 22:36:37 <Lede> romainguy__: yes
Jan 18 22:36:57 <jerkface03> romainguy_: you working on the nio issue?
Jan 18 22:42:18 <romainguy__> jerkface03: No, I work on the UI toolkit
Jan 18 22:45:34 <jerkface03> a lot of people are waiting on the nio stuff to be fixed
Jan 18 22:45:47 <jerkface03> it's been a good while since i've reported it to morr
Jan 18 23:38:01 <aaroncampbell> Is there a place to view android devices, and projected release dates?
Jan 18 23:38:19 <duey> hmm so
Jan 18 23:38:27 <duey> should you include camera support if you cant test it
Jan 18 23:38:37 <duey> (for submission)
Jan 18 23:38:42 <duey> or just fake up some examples
Jan 18 23:55:29 <TimRiker> aaroncampbell: that presumes there are some. To my knowledge there are no announces android devices. Just various states of "yeah, we think we'll do that sometime soon"
Jan 19 00:02:01 <aaroncampbell> TimRiker: Wow, I assumed companies would have moved faster than that... Ok
Jan 19 00:02:20 <aaroncampbell> What exactly is the point of writing software for something that has nothing to run on then?
Jan 19 00:02:55 <TimRiker> aaroncampbell: a very good question indeed.
Jan 19 00:03:37 <rwhitby> aaroncampbell: cause there's big prize money that's tempting lots of people, and making them all keep their source code closed.
Jan 19 00:03:55 <TimRiker> aaroncampbell: perhaps it's just nice to work on an open source mobile platform? oh. wait, that's not it, Android is not open source. ah well.
Jan 19 00:04:26 <Stephmw> tbh, I think any hw company who flat out said 'yeah, we're pretty much done' would be shooting itself in the foot
Jan 19 00:05:12 <aaroncampbell> I guess then the reward is to generate programs, so that Google can say "you should make devices that use this, because it has lots of cool stuff" It seems like they should offer a similar reward for the best mobile device...
Jan 19 00:06:09 <TimRiker> aaroncampbell: interesting. where as I think they should actually release the source so that it can get ported to Linux devices that already exist.
Jan 19 00:06:47 <aaroncampbell> TimRiker: is that supposed to happen in the future?  Or is that just you wishing?
Jan 19 00:07:32 <TimRiker> course I also think that android should use a proper linux library set and not reinvent the world as closed source advertised as open source. but perhaps that's just me.
Jan 19 00:08:41 <TimRiker> aaroncampbell: the press releases say android "is open source" but it's not. the press releases also say "it" will all be released under an apache license. (which does NOT require releasing the source).
Jan 19 00:09:37 <TimRiker> there are some email messages and comments in this channel indicating that in some bright day in the future all the source will be set free. but then I suppose Microsoft could go open source too. so here we sit holding our breath.
Jan 19 00:11:18 <TimRiker> I suppose they are waiting till the closed source complete library and user space replacements are so dependent on the bugs in the current implementation that the bugs won't be fixable. then they will release the source and laugh about it.
Jan 19 00:11:53 <TimRiker> cause clearly large closed source development projects are the path to stable software.
Jan 19 00:12:50 <TimRiker> after all, look how well Vista is doing! ... ok, /me stops ranting for now.
Jan 19 00:13:39 <romainguy__> TimRiker: There are plenty of perfectly stable closed-source software, and plenty of very buggy Open Source software
Jan 19 00:13:50 <romainguy__> It's dangerous and hard to make general assumptions like this :)
Jan 19 00:13:59 <TimRiker> romainguy_: obviously. google is counting on that.
Jan 19 00:14:58 <romainguy__> Remember, the current SDK is only an early look (it's in bold on the web site) and it is still undergoing heavy development
Jan 19 00:15:29 <TimRiker> romainguy_: obviously. so is Vista or whatever the next big closed-source os release will be called.
Jan 19 00:16:01 <romainguy__> What is the relationship with Vista here?
Jan 19 00:16:35 <TimRiker> cause the open source mantra is: release never, or only when forced to. those developers in the community no nothing about stability or testing. what's testing?
Jan 19 00:16:47 <TimRiker> eep. s/no/know/
Jan 19 00:17:14 <TimRiker> romainguy_: just another great example of a stable timely released closed source project.
Jan 19 00:19:18 <TimRiker> what I don't understand is why android uses the Linux kernel in the first place? that piece of crud could easily be replaced with a *bsd kernel and then no source would need to be released. why did they pick up some lame piece of GPL software if they hate the GPL so much? I'll be someone paid them.
Jan 19 00:20:03 <TimRiker> ooh! even better, just use the M$ Windows Mobile kernel and build on that! that would be sweet.
Jan 19 00:20:23 * Stephmw turns the volume knob down a notch
Jan 19 00:20:33 <TimRiker> hehe. is it working? :)
Jan 19 00:20:34 <rwhitby> the simple fact is that there are companies investing millions of dollars in this alliance, and they will want a return on that investment based on the source not being released until they have released their first products.
Jan 19 00:21:04 <rwhitby> it's nothing to do with open source motives, it's all pure dollars.
Jan 19 00:21:13 <Stephmw> TimRiker: only a bit
Jan 19 00:21:33 <TimRiker> rwhitby: then why choose some crappy GPL software?
Jan 19 00:21:47 <rwhitby> TimRiker: all part of the marketing plan
Jan 19 00:22:06 <TimRiker> ah. the old bait and switch. yeah, I suppose they have that part down.
Jan 19 00:22:55 <rwhitby> I believe they will release all the source, but not until the OHA hardware companies have released their products.
Jan 19 00:24:48 <TimRiker> rwhitby: unfortunately that's precisely when releasing the source will do the least good. after all the existing bugs are effectively carved in stone.
Jan 19 00:25:48 <morrildl> TimRiker: open-source is not magic
Jan 19 00:25:55 <TimRiker> so we end up with yet another buggy mobile platform. this one claiming to be open source (as opposed to Microsoft's "available source")
Jan 19 00:25:57 <morrildl> Bugs don't get magically fixed because source is available
Jan 19 00:26:37 <TimRiker> morrildl: quite the reverse. bugs don't get fixed at all when the source is not available.
Jan 19 00:26:53 <morrildl> TimRiker: now that's just silly
Jan 19 00:27:05 <morrildl> There are millions of developers out there who will disagree with that
Jan 19 00:27:29 <TimRiker> so if the goal is to fix as few bugs as possible. they best way to get there is to have as few eyes look at the code as you can.
Jan 19 00:28:06 <TimRiker> oh, I'm sure M$ agrees with the approach completely. and palm and symbian for that matter.
Jan 19 00:28:13 <morrildl> If you choose not to believe that we will open source Android, then indeed that is your right
Jan 19 00:28:17 <TimRiker> oh, and we can include Apple's iPhone in the mix too.
Jan 19 00:28:26 <TimRiker> it's the best way to run.
Jan 19 00:28:32 <morrildl> If you do, you are not our target audience, and I invite you to move on to another platform
Jan 19 00:28:58 <TimRiker> morrildl: Oh, I fully believe that after the bugs are set in stone, the source will be released. I really have no doubts about that.
Jan 19 00:29:31 <romainguy__> TimRiker: Why are you so convinced we don't want to fix bugs?
Jan 19 00:29:34 <TimRiker> I'm here on the vain hope that someone will get a clue. not seeing it happen, but hoping.
Jan 19 00:29:53 <morrildl> TimRiker: you are correct, you will be ineffective in that goal, here
Jan 19 00:30:05 <TimRiker> romainguy_: I'm just reflecting the current actions. as opposed to the current market speak.
Jan 19 00:30:13 * rwhitby gets out the popcorn ...
Jan 19 00:30:28 * Stephmw wonders when the war of the blogs will happen
Jan 19 00:31:12 * romainguy__ wonders whether he should undo all his bug fixes :)
Jan 19 00:32:04 <morrildl> I always assume the quotes are required
Jan 19 00:32:05 <TimRiker> romainguy_: certainly not. the more employed folks that have access to the source, the better the code can get.
Jan 19 00:32:11 <morrildl> I guess I think of IRC as a shell
Jan 19 00:32:33 <morrildl> TimRiker: unemployed developers are incapable of writing good code...?
Jan 19 00:32:34 <TimRiker> it's just unfortunate that none of the community members will be able to help until it's too late.
Jan 19 00:32:47 <Stephmw> morrildl: will there be an explanatory blog entry somewhere about the tracker?
Jan 19 00:33:01 <Stephmw> morrildl: how is it synched with the internal one?
Jan 19 00:33:03 <morrildl> Stephmw: already is:  http://android-developers.blogspot.com/2008/01/you-cant-rush-perfection-but-now-you.html
Jan 19 00:33:07 <morrildl> Currently, by me :)
Jan 19 00:33:27 <TimRiker> would be nice to get CIA* in here connected to the kernel repository.
Jan 19 00:33:46 <TimRiker> kind of ironic that the piece nobody can test is the piece that has source available.
Jan 19 00:33:47 <morrildl> Which is to say, the full automated 2-way sync is taking longer than expected, so we have a semi-automated 1-way sync working
Jan 19 00:33:59 <romainguy__> morrildl: Thanks, now I can cancel all my weekend projects :)
Jan 19 00:34:08 <morrildl> romainguy__: heh :)
Jan 19 00:34:23 <Stephmw> morrildl: cheers
Jan 19 00:35:15 <duey> Lo)
Jan 19 00:35:28 <duey> i have a question
Jan 19 00:35:35 <duey> my project involves using the camera
Jan 19 00:35:43 <duey> because the camera is not properly emulated
Jan 19 00:35:52 <duey> i dont want to include it in the submission
Jan 19 00:35:59 <duey> (because i cant test it)
Jan 19 00:36:20 <duey> should we just fake it up
Jan 19 00:39:05 <morrildl> duey: that seems reasonable.  You'll want to document it in your README file that you submit with the application though
Jan 19 00:39:36 <TimRiker> morrildl: are there any plans to add camera pass through support to the emulator? That would be useful.
Jan 19 00:40:02 <morrildl> TimRiker: yes, definitely.  The state of hardware emulation in general needs to be improved -- not just the camera, but Bluetooth, SMS, and so on
Jan 19 00:40:10 <TimRiker> That would allow the Google camera app to be included and give folks a feeling for how that integrates.
Jan 19 00:40:27 <morrildl> TimRiker: a lot of that has been fixed and will be in the next SDK release we are working on, although I don't have a specific inventory handy
Jan 19 00:41:01 <TimRiker> presumably the real hardware has a camera, cause what sources are out talk about it.
Jan 19 00:41:09 <morrildl> TimRiker: correct
Jan 19 00:41:18 <TimRiker> will real hardware be shows at the get together?
Jan 19 00:41:27 <morrildl> And even if the initial launch model doesn't have a camera, the platform would need to support it for ones that do
Jan 19 00:41:28 <TimRiker> er  shown...
Jan 19 00:41:34 <morrildl> which get-together?
Jan 19 00:41:41 <morrildl> Oh, the one on the 23rd?
Jan 19 00:41:54 <TimRiker> http://android-developers.blogspot.com/2008/01/who-wants-cocoa-smores.html
Jan 19 00:41:56 <TimRiker> yes.
Jan 19 00:42:24 <morrildl> Unfortunately no
Jan 19 00:42:43 <Stephmw> TimRiker: surely any such demo would need a PR fanfare anyway ;)
Jan 19 00:42:52 <TimRiker> do any of the dev platforms have forward facing cameras? ie: pointed at the user?
Jan 19 00:42:58 <morrildl> TimRiker: good question
Jan 19 00:43:03 <morrildl> I don't know the answer
Jan 19 00:43:12 <morrildl> I will attempt to find out
Jan 19 00:44:43 <TimRiker> morrildl: thx! I know some of the HTC phone have them, though the released US versions don't.
Jan 19 00:45:21 <TimRiker> the HTC Kaiser for example which seems similar to the HTC google platform from looking at the source.
Jan 19 00:45:48 <morrildl> is that the successor to the Apache?
Jan 19 00:46:01 * TimRiker speaks from a software perspective and it NOT commenting on the look of the hardware as he has not played with it yet.
Jan 19 00:46:31 <morrildl> oh cool, it's got a..... bendy... thing
Jan 19 00:46:44 <morrildl> nifty
Jan 19 00:46:57 * morrildl used to have an Apache and often wished the screen would slant like that
Jan 19 00:47:01 <TimRiker> morrildl: sort of. the apache is cdma. the kaiser is gsm/hsdpa
Jan 19 00:47:10 <morrildl> ahh
Jan 19 00:47:46 <TimRiker> at&t sells the kaiser as the at&t "tilt" but they ripped off the front facing camera.
Jan 19 00:48:57 <TimRiker> long url: http://www.wireless.att.com/cell-phone-service/cell-phone-details/?device=AT%26T+Tilt(TM)&q_sku=sku1060009
Jan 19 00:50:27 <jasta> mmm, delicious news about the bug tracker :)
Jan 19 00:53:21 <morrildl> TimRiker: that's lame
Jan 19 00:53:22 <TimRiker> http://www.google.com/events/events_full.html - says registration is closed. is it full now? /me was pointing someone else at the page.
Jan 19 00:53:34 <TimRiker> morrildl: yes! like many other lame things. :)
Jan 19 00:53:37 <morrildl> TimRiker: it is probably full
Jan 19 00:53:51 <morrildl> TimRiker: feel free to have the person email me about it, and I will see if there are any open slots
Jan 19 00:54:24 <TimRiker> k. though this time it was my boss who I was asking to cover air fare. :)
Jan 19 00:54:32 <morrildl> TimRiker: doh :)
Jan 19 00:54:49 <morrildl> TimRiker: if s/he wants to attend let me know and I will see what I can do
Jan 19 00:57:15 <TimRiker> morrildl: k. will do. better head out at the moment. cya all! don't take my ranting to seriously, unless of course you are in a position to make changes. :)
Jan 19 00:57:25 <morrildl> TimRiker: see ya!
Jan 19 00:58:37 <morrildl> What?  Only 1 new bug so far?
Jan 19 00:58:42 * morrildl is disappointed.
Jan 19 00:58:57 <Stephmw> cheeky of you to release it friday evening ;)
Jan 19 00:59:02 <Stephmw> everyone's down the bar/pub
Jan 19 00:59:04 <morrildl> Stephmw: lol
Jan 19 00:59:08 <morrildl> Is it Friday?
Jan 19 00:59:10 <morrildl> so it is
Jan 19 00:59:16 <morrildl> wow
Jan 19 00:59:21 <morrildl> yeah actually that was probably suboptimal
Jan 19 00:59:26 <morrildl> hmm
Jan 19 00:59:32 <morrildl> now I worry people won't see the announcement
Jan 19 00:59:43 <morrildl> I'd better go make that post stick on the Group at least
Jan 19 00:59:50 * Stephmw nods
Jan 19 01:00:07 <romainguy__> morrildl: No, that was a good idea, at least we will enjoy our weekend :)
Jan 19 01:00:07 <Stephmw> maybe have someone else blog about it on monday, saying how great it is it's finally here
Jan 19 01:00:43 <jasta> i am excited, but i don't know that i have any new bugs to report that haven't already been addressed or are at least known.
Jan 19 01:01:03 <jasta> maybe i will copy over that bug about listselector drawables invoking implicit padding.  that is still really annoying :)
Jan 19 01:01:08 * Stephmw heads to bed
Jan 19 01:01:18 <morrildl> Stephmw: see ya!
Jan 19 01:01:28 <jasta> oh yeah, and i get SIGBUS all the time when i launch my application from Eclipse
Jan 19 01:02:02 <jasta> which sometimes seems to cause the entire emulated OS to restart.
Jan 19 01:02:27 <morrildl> jasta: nice, SIGBUS is no good
Jan 19 01:02:34 <jasta> yeah, it happens all the time actually.
Jan 19 01:02:51 <morrildl> When it happens do 'adb bugreport' and attach the output to an Issue
Jan 19 01:02:51 <jasta> it is in dalvik (of course).
Jan 19 01:03:11 <jasta> i've got some time, let me see if i can go trigger it
Jan 19 01:03:15 <morrildl> cool
Jan 19 01:03:25 <jasta> the problem, of course, is that you goobers just restart everything on failure.
Jan 19 01:03:32 <morrildl> heh :)
Jan 19 01:03:48 <jasta> so it is hard to capture it as a fatal problem, it just "takes longer" to start.  but in adb logcat, it's clearly going bonkers.
Jan 19 01:04:09 <morrildl> ahh
Jan 19 01:04:27 <morrildl> yeah 'adb bugreport' is like adb logcat plus some native stack stuff
Jan 19 01:04:44 <romainguy__> jasta: I fixed the bug about padding yesterday
Jan 19 01:04:48 <romainguy__> jasta: No need to report it :)
Jan 19 01:04:56 <jasta> good :)
Jan 19 01:09:47 <aku99> hi what this channel about..?
Jan 19 01:10:01 <jasta> http://www.android.com
Jan 19 01:12:52 <aku99> brillian..:)
Jan 19 01:14:21 <winksaville> That is great news about the issue tracker
Jan 19 01:14:48 <morrildl> Still only 1 new bug
Jan 19 01:14:52 <jasta> romainguy__: are there plans to include a traditional progress bar widget?
Jan 19 01:14:54 <morrildl> I am torn
Jan 19 01:14:58 <morrildl> Part of me wants to throw down
Jan 19 01:15:05 <morrildl> Another part of me is terrified of that ;)
Jan 19 01:15:35 <jasta> i think that everyone has already been reporting theyre issues
Jan 19 01:15:46 <jasta> so its nice you have a central repository, but give us time to find more brokenness :)
Jan 19 01:15:57 <jasta> don't worry, i'm certain more brokenness exists to be found.
Jan 19 01:16:13 <morrildl> heh heh
Jan 19 01:16:21 <morrildl> oh, I know that all too well :)
Jan 19 01:18:51 <jasta> hmm, can't reproduce the sigbus problem now.
Jan 19 01:18:59 <morrildl> heh
Jan 19 01:19:05 <jasta> i mean, if you really want to catch it, you should disable the automatic restart of processes.
Jan 19 01:19:13 <winksaville> I just posted a bug today as well as few others, should we post them, I'd rather wait if a new release is eminent?
Jan 19 01:19:14 <jasta> now is the time to have shit like that off.
Jan 19 01:19:51 <winksaville> er (a few others earlier)
Jan 19 01:20:35 <morrildl> jasta: enter it as a feature request :)
Jan 19 01:22:21 <romainguy__> jasta: romainguy__: are there plans to include a traditional progress bar widget? < it already exists
Jan 19 01:22:31 <romainguy__> the "circular" look is just a drawable
Jan 19 01:22:49 <jasta> romainguy__: really?  that is a cute design.
Jan 19 01:22:53 <romainguy__> you can use android.R.progress_horizontal as the background to get a "traditional" progress bar
Jan 19 01:23:08 <romainguy__> or you can make your own
Jan 19 01:23:16 <romainguy__> ProgressBar is very versatile :))
Jan 19 01:23:32 <jasta> how does the horizontal progress bar look? :)
Jan 19 01:23:37 <jasta> i don't really want to try it right now hehe
Jan 19 01:24:04 <romainguy__> it looks like a blue bar with rounded corners
Jan 19 01:24:07 <romainguy__> nothing surprising
Jan 19 01:24:13 <jasta> hmm, cute.
Jan 19 01:24:27 <romainguy__> but basically ProgressBar simply sets the level of the background drawable
Jan 19 01:24:35 <romainguy__> so your progress indicator can be pretty much anything
Jan 19 01:25:18 <romainguy__> it could be an animated icon, a picture that turns from gray to colors, an elephant shape that fills progressively...
Jan 19 01:25:42 <jasta> that is very nice.
Jan 19 01:25:59 <romainguy__> Yeah, we have bugs but we also have cool features ;-)
Jan 19 01:26:44 <jasta> and that would be supported with an indeterminate progress bar too?  say you wanted a picture to pulsate from grayscale to color? :)
Jan 19 01:26:50 <morrildl> I think the progress dialog should show a log
Jan 19 01:27:03 <jasta> a log?
Jan 19 01:27:03 <morrildl> and animate fire on the log that gets increasingly brilliant, until at 100% the log is reduced to ash
Jan 19 01:27:39 <jasta> nah, i think the dialog itself should slowly flutter away like dust in the wind :)
Jan 19 01:28:23 <jasta> or, dinosaurs should rush onto the screen and devour it, and then charge the "camera" and eat it.  now that would be one hell of a shocking easter egg.
Jan 19 01:29:45 <jasta> i'm kidding, of course
Jan 19 01:30:03 <jasta> romainguy__: you guys should definitely extend the current ApiSamples to include some of these goodies.
Jan 19 01:30:15 <jasta> For example, you don't even have a decent example of a custom layout or view.
Jan 19 01:30:31 <winksaville> morrildl: In your blog regarding issue tracking you state:
Jan 19 01:30:33 <winksaville> "..we invite developers to file an issue to let us know about any problems you find with the SDK."
Jan 19 01:30:34 <winksaville> Does "an issue" mean we're allowed to only post a single issue for all of the problems?
Jan 19 01:31:00 <romainguy__> jasta: Indeterminate is also based on levels, so yes, that would work
Jan 19 01:31:19 <romainguy__> jasta: As for the samples, you'll see in the next SDK what's new :p
Jan 19 01:31:30 <morrildl> winksaville: nope, go nuts :)
Jan 19 01:31:34 <morrildl> one issue per Issue
Jan 19 01:32:16 <romainguy__> jasta: i'm kidding, of course << I'm sure you could write an OpenGL drawable with dinosaurs
Jan 19 01:33:10 <jasta> sure you could, but you'd have to be a complete loony.
Jan 19 01:33:28 <winksaville> morrildl: Makes sense, you might update the wording.
Jan 19 01:33:38 <romainguy__> Well, nothing surprises me anymore since I've seen a Swing look and feel offer the ability to use Rhino-shaped buttons
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Sat Jan 19 02:59:56 2008