**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Jan 30 02:59:56 2008 Jan 30 03:01:12 michaelnovakjr: I admit, I'm happy about it too, but I don't think it was necessary. Jan 30 03:01:22 bbl, i'm hacking :) Jan 30 03:02:13 better not be playing on the same css servers as me Jan 30 03:02:19 or ill ban you! Jan 30 03:02:29 :p Jan 30 03:02:41 dirty hacker Jan 30 03:03:00 jasta, yeah I'm the helloanroid.com guy :) Jan 30 03:03:18 droid* Jan 30 03:03:23 thanks :) Jan 30 03:05:34 zhobbs: I wrote the RSS reader you posted on there. And the VNC server. Jan 30 03:05:57 Nice...especially on the VNC server Jan 30 03:06:12 working on my ADC project now Jan 30 03:06:18 thats why ive been so quiet lately :) Jan 30 03:06:39 yeah, me too Jan 30 03:06:56 what's your project, if you don't mind sharing? Jan 30 03:07:11 can't really share due to nda Jan 30 03:07:42 what's yours? Jan 30 03:07:42 who have you entered into an NDA with? Jan 30 03:08:38 a company how makes some other mobile software is paying me to implement their stuff for android, and splitting the possible winnings Jan 30 03:08:45 s/how/who Jan 30 03:08:50 neat. Jan 30 03:08:53 is that against the rules or no? Jan 30 03:09:05 michaelnovakjr, I don't think so Jan 30 03:09:25 corporations are alowed to enter into the contest Jan 30 03:09:39 that kinda sucks Jan 30 03:09:55 zhobbs: I'm working on a media system which allows you to synchronize meta data and retrieve streaming content OTA, optionally storing to a memory card for caching. Jan 30 03:10:10 Particularly applying this design to music. Jan 30 03:10:37 cool, utilizing any of the big meta data DB's out there (last.fm, etc)? Jan 30 03:10:59 Yes, both client (mobile) and server (PC) side Jan 30 03:11:08 corporations have way more resources to dedicate to the project it just doesn't seem fair that they can enter as well Jan 30 03:11:35 michaelnovakjr, it's a one man project in my case :) Jan 30 03:11:45 michaelnovakjr: They have more resources, but they still typically to fail to have good ideas or execute them successfully. Jan 30 03:11:52 s/to // Jan 30 03:11:53 jasta meant: michaelnovakjr: They have more resources, but they still typically fail to have good ideas or execute them successfully. Jan 30 03:12:06 someone shut that stupid bot off. ugh. Jan 30 03:12:15 too many cooks in the kitchen...plus commercial motivation can kill good ideas Jan 30 03:12:37 it's a lot easier to be successful when you don't have to worry about being profitable :) Jan 30 03:12:37 true, but most solo developers can only work during off normal work hours Jan 30 03:13:18 yeah...the bottom line is google wants the best software possible Jan 30 03:13:44 so much for the open source initiative Jan 30 03:14:19 michaelnovakjr: Not really. Jan 30 03:14:30 I have a feeling that many of the winning projects will be hobbyists Jan 30 03:14:51 that would be nice to see Jan 30 03:14:53 michaelnovakjr: Try not to be threatened by competition. The luxury of open source development is that you can happily ignore it. Jan 30 03:15:28 michaelnovakjr, what are you working on? (don't have to answer of course) Jan 30 03:16:36 i am working on a mail/rss client, with collaboration tools.... simple stuff though Jan 30 03:17:04 basically make it easy to get your contacts/rss/mail the way you do on your desktop/laptop machine Jan 30 03:17:19 i can't wait to see the landscape of mobile software once Android has had time to nest. Jan 30 03:17:20 sounds good Jan 30 03:17:49 yeah, I need to get helloandroid.com's application db working a little better...so I can drive a Package Management app off it Jan 30 03:18:02 finding things as simple as a good FreeCell game is nearly impossible even today. Jan 30 03:18:19 for sure... Jan 30 03:18:26 zhobbs: I eventually want to look at package management as well, in the spirit of Debian's APT. Jan 30 03:19:13 but that project needs to wait for a more stable SDK and more distributable applications. Jan 30 03:19:40 I eventually want to make an app that takes the descriptions,ratings,comments, screenshots etc from the website and gets them so you can easily find everything Jan 30 03:20:03 and of course handle dependencies and everything Jan 30 03:20:12 zhobbs: Good, you can write a front-end for my system then :P Jan 30 03:20:36 hehe, if you want to get together with me on that after March 14 let me know :) Jan 30 03:21:11 sorry, april 14 Jan 30 03:21:12 the deadline is Apr 14 now, isn't it? Jan 30 03:21:33 I am certainly interested. Perhaps I will look you up for this later. Jan 30 03:21:45 cool Jan 30 03:21:47 Of course, my ADC project will probably take up my time even after the challenge as well. Jan 30 03:22:05 Especially if you're prepping it for round 2 of judging :) Jan 30 03:22:05 I would like to develop it to maturity before I retire it. I doubt that timeline will coincide with Google's. Jan 30 03:23:23 I'm secretly hoping that once this developer challenge thing blows over, I can engage my application in the community a bit more for improvements and new ideas. Jan 30 03:24:01 any news on a potential release date? Jan 30 03:24:15 you going to release before deadline? Jan 30 03:24:17 michaelnovakjr: I will be opening source code as soon as the round 1 challenge deadline is over. Jan 30 03:24:35 me too, for my project Jan 30 03:24:49 yeah, there will be lots of cool stuff coming out april 15 Jan 30 03:25:03 And even if I don' Jan 30 03:25:10 And even if I don't win, I plan to continue development. Jan 30 03:25:41 I'm mostly just keeping in step with the challenge, it is not my motivation. Jan 30 03:26:06 I actually had this idea years ago, and started implementing it for Windows Mobile (my current mobile platform of choice) Jan 30 03:26:31 but ultimately scrapped the project because, frankly, Windows Mobile is a terrible development platform. Jan 30 03:27:08 I had to develop using VMWare running pirated copies of Visual Studio and Windows, the .NET CF is useless and undeveloped, ... Jan 30 03:27:21 It was just frustratingly backward. Jan 30 03:27:29 android is the only mobile platform I've messed with Jan 30 03:27:53 I have written for Palm, WinMo, and of course Android. I am familiar with Symbian, but have not realized any applications there. Jan 30 03:28:19 None of my released work to date has been in the open source community, however. That will be changing with Android. Jan 30 03:28:23 I've never had great luck using VMWare and getting things to work all that well on the client machine Jan 30 03:28:52 zhobbs: Me neither, which is why I quit futzing with it. I'd rather stop developing for WinMo than reboot to Windows :) Jan 30 03:29:15 I'm such a snob. :) Jan 30 03:29:56 i hate windows Jan 30 03:30:00 hehe, my laptop is locked into windows for some contract work I do Jan 30 03:30:10 it sucks Jan 30 03:30:41 i run linux on everything, have one mac Jan 30 03:31:11 I run Linux on most everything as well. I don't like Macs, though :) Jan 30 03:31:23 And I'm even a snob about Linux too. I won't use anything but Ubuntu and Debian :) Jan 30 03:31:32 i use Kubuntu Jan 30 03:31:45 I use vista *ducks* Jan 30 03:31:49 Mostly the only reason Ubuntu is OK is because it's basically Debian with some different package maintainers ;0 Jan 30 03:32:14 i am a big fan of KDE, i have found it really easy to use Jan 30 03:32:22 Also, if I haven't started a holy war yet, I'm a die-hard Vim user. :) Jan 30 03:32:33 LONG LIVE VIM! Jan 30 03:32:34 I used to have emacs on vista Jan 30 03:32:43 michaelnovakjr: I use KDE at home, but lately I'm growing detached again. KDE4 needs to hurry up or I'm gonna lose interest ;) Jan 30 03:32:45 I usually use SMGL (it's like gentoo), but I couldn't get eclipse working because of some crazy eclipse bugs so had to switch to kubuntu for the time being Jan 30 03:33:17 using a binary distro seems sooo slow Jan 30 03:33:26 I am reluctant about KDE4 jasta, I haven't played with it very much yet but from the screenshots I hope themes are easily found Jan 30 03:33:45 zhobbs: It isn't. Point yourself to the nearest intelligent discussion on compiler optimization. Jan 30 03:33:50 I used KDE4 for a while and downgraded...wasn't configuarable enough Jan 30 03:34:27 jasta, well for whatever reason I'm swapping now and wasn't before Jan 30 03:34:32 I tried the kubuntu live cd with kde4, disappointed very much so Jan 30 03:35:17 X is just terrible, and its encumbering the success of what could be solid desktop software in my, and apple's opinion Jan 30 03:35:24 Well now I'm all pissed off. I hadn't even used KDE4, I just assumed that they hadn't all gone insane. Jan 30 03:36:02 jmccaffrey: In what way? Not that I disagree, but I'm curious what you think is wrong with X. Jan 30 03:36:45 i don't really see anything wrong with KDE 3.5 Jan 30 03:37:00 michaelnovakjr: It doesn't integrate well with Compiz, which frustrates me. Jan 30 03:37:53 For one, I believe that the emphasis on a network layer forces is not in line with the way it is used anymore. The way it is configured and the way it employs services is arcane compared to much less monolithic solutions that could be devised Jan 30 03:37:55 if they made KDE4 customizable then I would definitely move up to it, but I definitely know I will be waiting at least a little while Jan 30 03:38:16 jmccaffrey: Architectually, X is very impressive actually. XFree86 has certainly stagnated and has numerous problems, but Xorg is rescueing it nicely. Jan 30 03:38:33 jmccaffrey: Yes, but in what way does the service architecture make it terrible? Just that it is superfluous? What does it _prevent_? Jan 30 03:38:52 michaelnovakjr, my feeling was that they were focused on eye candy and that the settings menus haven't been implemented yet Jan 30 03:39:24 true, and the eye candy (at least so of it) is kinda ugly Jan 30 03:39:31 the panel and menu are really ugly Jan 30 03:39:46 yeah, I don't use the panel in KDE3 and there is no way to remove it in 4 Jan 30 03:40:03 I just don't believe that incorporating all of the services is in line with the unix tradition. Should they not be easily replaceable? Consider why there is still no real good graphical configuration that I know of for X Jan 30 03:41:25 If it was less monolithic, maybe, hopefully configuration would be far less of an issue than it is now Jan 30 03:41:44 jmccaffrey: There are many. GNOME has one. KDE has one. NVidia even wrote one. Jan 30 03:42:08 Most users these days do not have any need to interact with Xorg's conf file. Jan 30 03:42:29 * zhobbs does Jan 30 03:42:47 Of course, if you do, your distro might just be sucky ;P Jan 30 03:43:01 ubuntu does seem to automatically handle xinerama Jan 30 03:43:06 I found getting my setup to work under it to be a difficult process, maybe I didn't see the tool available. Jan 30 03:43:07 jasta i agree Jan 30 03:43:24 i have a dual display setup on Kubuntu and it was really simple Jan 30 03:43:44 i just had to switch it from mirror to continuous Jan 30 03:44:24 jmccaffrey: What is your set up? Jan 30 03:45:11 I admit, I am biased toward NVidia and so have been spoiled by their good drivers and tools, but I have not found any typical set-ups that Ubuntu or Debian was unable to cope with automatically. Jan 30 03:45:15 a 24" dell lcd w/ a 17" samsung lcd Jan 30 03:45:23 Of course, Ubuntu and Debian are mostly just relying on X -configure Jan 30 03:45:28 I had it working, but after messing with the config file alot Jan 30 03:45:58 jmccaffrey: What video card? ATI has a tool as well I think. But NVidia's is probably much better. Jan 30 03:45:59 nvidia 8800 Jan 30 03:46:14 jmccaffrey: And you did not use nvidia-settings or nvidia-xconfig? Jan 30 03:46:59 No, I just looked around for a gui to handle it, not seeing one I opened the config and figured it out manually Jan 30 03:47:01 They come with the drivers, even. Jan 30 03:47:13 And are default installed with Ubuntu. Jan 30 03:47:39 So, let's recap. You think X is terrible because you don't know anything about it? :) Jan 30 03:48:36 I suspect that is also why Apple thought it was terrible. All their fancy effects have all been outdone with X. God bless NVidia ;) Jan 30 03:49:17 If you want to try and "win" an argument, I'll concede. I think X is terrible because I think it's monolithic design leads to the creation of hacks. Compiz, nvidia custom configuration tools and xinerama are all hacks in my opinion. Jan 30 03:50:04 Compiz is a windows manager, just like Vista and Apple does not deviate far from that concept either. Jan 30 03:50:11 Vista's Aero, of course. Jan 30 03:50:42 And NVidia's custom configuration tool exists for Windows as well. In fact, it's even more insane for Windows, exposing features like multiple desktops and adding buttons to title bars. Much weirder than a wrapper to a file. Jan 30 03:51:33 For the record, X is terrible, but not for any of the reasons the average Linux user knows about. Jan 30 03:51:40 its a known fact that nvidia is better for linux than ATI Jan 30 03:51:57 If you're basing the assumption that it isn't a hack on the fact that it also exists for windows, you may be standing on pretty soft ground. Jan 30 03:52:02 I would hope with the AMD/ATI dynamic duo they can really provide great technology for Linux Jan 30 03:52:24 jmccaffrey: NVidia's configuration tool is not a hack. It exposes features that only NVidia products support. Jan 30 03:52:40 like dual monitors? Jan 30 03:52:43 And it accesses interfaces that, if standardized, would bar certain drivers from functioning. Jan 30 03:53:02 jmccaffrey: Dual monitors is not why NVidia created their tool. Experiment with it for a moment, and you will see why they created it. Jan 30 03:53:23 For dual monitor tinkering and foolishness, just look at KDE's desktop configuration tool, or GNOME's even. Jan 30 03:53:31 KDE's is better, of course ;) Jan 30 03:53:51 So you believe that the "dualview" and other driver specific options are the best way to handle the configuration? Jan 30 03:54:11 Well, in the case of NVidia's proprietary TwinView technology, yes. Jan 30 03:54:24 TwinView is not dual head. It is a special feature that their chips and only their chips support. Jan 30 03:54:45 Xinerama is the general solution for X, and is supported by other more general tools. Jan 30 03:55:02 I prefer xinerama Jan 30 03:55:24 That you perceive it as a "standard" feature is merely an illusion, and it is an illusion maintained on all operating systems that NVidia supports. Jan 30 03:56:51 zhobbs: Unfortunately, TwinView offers the ability to drive both displays as a single composited canvas. That's the only way that Compiz, for example, could work effectively with dual monitors. Jan 30 03:57:27 thats why it never works for me.... :) Jan 30 03:57:33 Xinerama is hiding all those nasty memory copies happening when information is exchanged from one head to the next. Jan 30 03:57:59 Compiz could never accept that leaky abstraction. It needs a single canvas to work with, and it needs to assume that canvas is universally driven. Jan 30 03:58:13 TwinView and whatever ATI's technology is called is the only way to do with that Jan 30 03:59:15 To visualize this, set up Xinerama using two video cards with extremely slow memory controllers. Move a window from one head to the next and watch your machine nearly explode ;) Jan 30 04:00:53 Truthfully, multiple monitor support is a huge hack. NVidia replaced that hack with an efficient and intentional solution. Much better ;) Jan 30 04:01:35 Anyway, I digress. I need to code :) Jan 30 04:15:45 Hmm, how can we debug ContentProviders? Jan 30 04:16:21 Oh nevermind, seems to run in the same process. Weird, thrown exceptions don't seem to make it anywhere. Jan 30 04:19:04 unit testing? Jan 30 04:19:41 I thought it was running in some special privileged process but that seems to not be the case. Jan 30 04:19:47 or at least, that process is being attached by Eclipse Jan 30 04:20:09 anyone know how to encode/save a Bitmap to the filesystem? Jan 30 04:20:12 be back Jan 30 04:20:27 zhobbs: BitmapFactory to decode, not sure if there is a method for encoding one. Jan 30 04:20:52 I don't know if they implemented the reverse yet. Jan 30 04:21:08 found it...Bitmap.compress() Jan 30 04:21:17 yeah hehe, i actually just found that too ;) Jan 30 04:21:33 i stumbled upon Bitmap.CompressFormat and was about to mention Bitmap.compress. Jan 30 04:24:24 are you doing your own drawing? :) Jan 30 04:52:27 romainguy_: I just got SIGSEGV in system_server... Jan 30 04:54:01 gah, and now i'm getting the mismatched uid problem. Jan 30 05:07:54 jasta: "I just got SIGSEGV in system_server..." << I can't help you here :( Jan 30 05:08:13 I know, I'm just scared. :) Jan 30 05:08:27 I'll post it to the issue tracker Jan 30 07:18:30 is there a layout provided in android that's similar to a flow layout in java? Jan 30 07:18:34 j2se rather Jan 30 07:22:19 jerkface03: nope Jan 30 07:22:34 jerkface03: LinearLayout is the closest thing to FlowLayout except it does not overflow :) Jan 30 07:23:14 that said a FlowLayout is usually bad for UI design Jan 30 07:24:17 romainguy__: sleep much? or are you working on android ui stuff all day and night? Jan 30 07:24:52 jerkface03: Today is special, I just upgraded my work laptop to Leopard Jan 30 07:25:00 so I am recreating my dev environment Jan 30 07:27:16 hehe, i just upgraded my workstation at work and i'm so lazy that i have my old install mounted and sometimes just chroot it to do stuff :) Jan 30 07:27:50 ahah Jan 30 07:28:04 reinstalling a complete environment is not painful with Mac OS X Jan 30 07:28:07 it took me an hour Jan 30 07:28:16 having most of my data and settings on .Mac helps a lot :) Jan 30 07:28:49 my workstation at work is an exception, i have a couple of pieces of really goofed up corporate software on there. Jan 30 07:29:03 ah yeah that Jan 30 07:29:13 I'm glad we don't suffer from that at Google Jan 30 07:29:16 including an IBM db2 client that is over 2 major versions old. Jan 30 07:29:25 except the VPN and Wifi configuration, there's nothing particular Jan 30 07:29:29 Getting that crap to run on a modern Linux installation (and a non-RedHat one at that) is a real pain. Jan 30 07:30:09 the installer requires rpm, and so you actually have to set up an RPM environment on a Debian machine to get it to install. So fuckin stupid. Jan 30 07:30:29 :( Jan 30 07:30:38 can't even use alien or anything because the installer (binary) runs through the rpm commands first, then contains all this voodoo to set up a new user with all the settings. Jan 30 07:30:45 so you have to arrange for the rpm commands to succeed. Jan 30 07:31:25 Fortunately, I am a magician. Jan 30 07:50:56 Oh yeah, I remember writing C now. This sucks ;0 Jan 30 08:01:10 I like C Jan 30 08:03:55 at least GLib makes it tolerable :) Jan 30 09:06:36 mornin Jan 30 15:07:04 anyone know offhand if android systems have some kind of unique ID? Jan 30 15:09:08 other than IMEI? Jan 30 15:12:48 yeah IMEI Jan 30 15:12:56 would be very unique Jan 30 15:13:38 score Jan 30 17:03:29 R.java is created in all my src subdirs... that's not right Jan 30 17:04:39 ok fixed Jan 30 17:23:55 howdy ho Jan 30 17:24:22 have the capabilities of the com.google.wireless.gdata classes been enumerated anywhere? Jan 30 18:01:08 http://mobile.slashdot.org/mobile/08/01/30/1611204.shtml Jan 30 18:01:10 ._o Jan 30 18:26:29 thanks Lede Jan 30 18:28:13 zhobbs: you can donate using pay-pal :P Jan 30 18:28:32 /paypal Lede donate $10 Jan 30 18:28:48 just kidding Jan 30 18:29:12 /paypal Lede donate $0.01 Jan 30 18:30:06 didn't work :( Jan 30 18:32:56 :( Jan 30 18:35:09 re Jan 30 19:24:43 hi. I get "The application com.google.android.providers.contacts is not responding." each time I start the emulator(from eclipse or from command line). I've tried the -wipe-data switch and the result is the same. How can I fix this? Jan 30 19:25:18 alexma, I've had similar issues..no idea :( Jan 30 19:25:35 I also get providers.media not responding also Jan 30 19:30:19 http://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=138&colspec=ID%20Type%20Version%20Security%20Status%20Owner%20Summary&start=100 Jan 30 19:30:26 I submitted a report Jan 30 20:56:55 * jasta is getting excited Jan 30 20:57:02 i want to see what the new UI looks liek :) Jan 30 20:57:12 i hope it's not just like new pixmaps and stuff :) Jan 30 21:01:13 new ui? Jan 30 21:03:12 * michaelnovakjr is curious Jan 30 21:03:34 that was dumb Jan 30 21:10:28 that was dumb. :) Jan 30 21:10:58 It's been said quite a few times that the UI is temporary, and now there are rumors that the next SDK (released in a few weeks) will have the new UI. Jan 30 21:11:07 or at least, a new UI. perhaps not the final one. Jan 30 21:11:46 yeah, definitely will have new UI Jan 30 21:12:03 http://openandroids.com/2008/01/30/android-user-interface-to-get-a-new-look/ Jan 30 21:12:15 http://www.helloandroid.com/node/240 Jan 30 21:12:18 :) Jan 30 21:14:13 ooooo lala Jan 30 21:17:02 i'm excited. i wish we could see a screenshot ;P Jan 30 21:17:27 i'm hoping that it's much different. the current UI is functional, but not much else. Jan 30 21:17:52 hehe, it still looks better than windows mobile, but they should be able to go further :) Jan 30 21:18:27 * romainguy__ is looking at the new UI right now :) Jan 30 21:19:08 romainguy__: be honest, should we be excited about it? :) Jan 30 21:19:25 I won't say anything Jan 30 21:20:48 Fine :) Jan 30 21:21:00 thats a tease haha! Jan 30 21:21:08 i have been looking at some of your portfolio of work, however, and i think i should be excited ;) Jan 30 21:21:38 Thanks but as a disclaimer I do not design Android's UI, I just implement it :) Jan 30 21:21:53 really, you don't even have any input there? Jan 30 21:22:18 No more than any other engineer Jan 30 21:22:44 Hmm, do we know any of the designers...? :) Jan 30 21:22:55 Nope Jan 30 21:23:29 Boo ;) Jan 30 21:24:14 But because of the new UI I had to implement a cool new feature in the UI toolkit :) Jan 30 21:24:18 (at least I think it's cool) Jan 30 21:24:46 nice, how long we gotta wait? Jan 30 21:25:10 I don't know, you should ask Dan Jan 30 21:26:02 for those of us developing applications romainguy_ will the UI change greatly effect our flow? Jan 30 21:27:03 i hope it does, actually. Jan 30 21:27:36 romainguy__: Will that new feature be obvious, or is it kind of an undertone? Jan 30 21:27:52 romainguy__ is hiding from the PR questions Jan 30 21:27:56 haha Jan 30 21:28:14 zhobbs: No, I'm just checking in a bug fix :) Jan 30 21:31:18 jasta: The new feature may or may not be used in the UI but there are samples and it's documented Jan 30 21:31:29 and if used, it will be obvious Jan 30 21:32:24 Interesting. Jan 30 21:32:43 Well, I can't wait. I am excited, I can't help it ;) Jan 30 21:33:03 That's a good thing :) Jan 30 21:33:10 romainguy__: I do think, however, that Google should step up and come up with some extra documentation that discusses layout, usability, and style guidelines. Jan 30 21:33:29 jasta: And we definitely agree on that Jan 30 21:34:09 But all the staff is very busy and with the platform still evolving really fast it would not help Jan 30 21:34:37 Yeah, I understand. Jan 30 21:34:48 Hire an intern :) Jan 30 21:35:02 uhuh Jan 30 21:35:22 plus I'm assuming handset manufacturers might take some liberties on the ui also? Jan 30 21:35:52 We're just doing *a* UI Jan 30 21:35:56 not *the* Android UI Jan 30 21:36:44 Especially because a cell phone UI must be adapted to the screen size and the hardware capabilities Jan 30 21:37:13 You don't want to have the same UI on a 170x90 12-keys phone and on an iPhone Jan 30 21:37:37 yep...all these crazy apps are going to be very clunky on the free type of phones Jan 30 21:37:52 Not necessarily Jan 30 21:37:55 I would think even webkit would be too heavy for the free phones Jan 30 21:38:19 I have a razr and I can't imagine anything useful running on it Jan 30 21:44:32 zhobbs: Opera Mini will run on it just fine. Jan 30 21:45:32 my shopping list app will run on it Jan 30 21:45:54 Those types of phones have been made to look insufficient for more advanced functionality only due to a lack of software and initiative. They are still quite powerful. Jan 30 21:46:38 For example, the MOTO RAZR2 has an ARM11 processor @ 500MHz. Jan 30 21:47:47 That's more powerful than all my previous smartphones. Jan 30 21:48:20 * davidw hopes romainguy has a good supply of spare _'s Jan 30 21:48:42 davidw: :)) Jan 30 21:48:44 He probably uses ChatZilla or something ;) Jan 30 21:48:50 I use Colloquy Jan 30 21:48:58 but I'm logged on IRC on 3 different computers Jan 30 21:50:30 Real men use screen Jan 30 21:50:42 jasta: yeah but I love GUIs :) Jan 30 21:50:46 I actually thought once that would be cool to write an X-based implementation of screen. Jan 30 21:51:34 I would gladly use such a thing Jan 30 21:53:02 It would not be very difficult. It would simply be an X proxy, implementing a server that can attach or detach to a real server at will. Jan 30 21:53:30 Of course, in order to work effectively, you need to have a relatively high performing link between the two machines. Jan 30 21:54:01 Actually what I'd like right now is a VPN that stays connected Jan 30 21:54:22 the X server protocol is not efficient over high latency links. Jan 30 21:54:51 romainguy__: What VPN do you use now? We use IPsec Jan 30 21:54:55 works great ;) Jan 30 21:55:33 I have no idea :) Jan 30 21:55:40 Whatever Google put on my laptop :) Jan 30 21:56:00 does google let you run whatever os you want? Jan 30 21:56:17 na they make you use windows 3.1 Jan 30 21:56:20 They let you choose what OS you want to use: Windows, Linux or OS X Jan 30 21:56:29 Unless your project needs a specific OS Jan 30 21:57:06 that's nice...most of the jobs I've had you're stuck in windows Jan 30 21:57:21 we let people choose here Jan 30 21:57:34 its kind of stupid if you stick someone on an os they dont like Jan 30 21:57:38 not productive Jan 30 21:58:07 zhobbs: at Sun I *had* to use Linux and Solaris and Windows :) Jan 30 21:58:12 to make sure Swing worked everywhere Jan 30 21:58:39 that makes sense Jan 30 21:58:44 i guess Jan 30 21:59:11 _-- Jan 30 21:59:31 yay, one cgone Jan 30 21:59:35 er Jan 30 21:59:43 s/cgone/clone gone Jan 30 22:00:56 duey, depends on support stuff too, I guess Jan 30 22:01:18 you get some guy who's not productive because he insists on using Minix and it crashes all the time... Jan 30 22:01:29 thats true Jan 30 22:01:38 but basically I think reasonable people come to reasonable solutions Jan 30 22:02:13 linux we usually give them debian or ubuntu Jan 30 22:10:49 kubuntu at work! Jan 30 22:13:15 I use whatever I want, because I'm in charge of restricting what people use. :) Jan 30 22:15:46 me to Jan 30 22:15:46 :D Jan 30 22:17:54 btw, as a side conversation, the GnomeVFS pisses me off so much. Jan 30 22:18:36 i wish they'd implement a FUSE component which could actually mount the GnomeVFS filesystems. So I wouldn't have to use Nautilus everytime I wanted to connect to a server share. Jan 30 22:23:19 @#@! VPN Jan 30 22:28:02 lol Jan 30 22:29:02 lol Jan 30 22:29:14 * romainguy____ cries Jan 30 22:29:18 you're soon to have more underscores than letters in your name. Jan 30 22:29:40 yeah, good thing I'm not using my usual nickname (gfx) Jan 30 22:30:27 holy hell, stevens got 15" of new snow last night Jan 30 22:30:43 i should go snowboarding tomorrow ;) Jan 30 22:31:46 romainguy____, you work remote? Jan 30 22:32:04 today yes Jan 30 22:32:48 me sleep now, later Jan 30 23:21:00 How can I evenly space n number of imageviews horizontally to fill parent? Can't figure it out with tablelayout or linearlayout... Jan 30 23:22:03 zhobbs: there are various ways to do that Jan 30 23:22:06 you could use a gridview Jan 30 23:22:17 hmm, haven't messed with grid views Jan 30 23:22:17 or with a table layout mark all columns to be stretchable Jan 30 23:22:28 and ask your imageviews to use a center horizontal policy Jan 30 23:22:43 yeah, I tried that and used center gravity on the image views Jan 30 23:23:12 I'll try it with android:layout_centerHorizontal Jan 30 23:23:45 note : a TableLayout is a vertical linearlayout and each row is a horizontal linearlayout Jan 30 23:24:14 so if there's only one row use a linear layout Jan 30 23:24:21 yes Jan 30 23:24:33 except tablelayout lets you stretch/shrink columns Jan 30 23:24:38 so it's a bit more sophisticated Jan 30 23:24:49 oh yeah, I need to be able to stretch columns Jan 30 23:25:19 hmm..I can stretch columns but the ImageView's won't center Jan 30 23:25:59 even when you set the scale type to center? Jan 30 23:27:48 on the ImageViews? Jan 30 23:28:34 yes Jan 30 23:29:00 yeah, they won't center... Jan 30 23:29:56 Jan 30 23:30:37 what about centerCrop ? Jan 30 23:32:30 for scaleType? Jan 30 23:33:26 I'm going to mess with gridview...haven't tried that yet Jan 30 23:34:18 GridView has an attribute to automatically expand the space between the columns Jan 30 23:34:54 Can it be static though? Jan 30 23:35:07 yep Jan 30 23:35:22 ok, cool Jan 30 23:40:30 hehe, GridView shows up empty Jan 30 23:40:40 did you set the adapter? Jan 30 23:41:04 well, by static I thought I could just add kids in the xml Jan 30 23:41:13 aah Jan 30 23:41:14 nope :) Jan 30 23:44:28 I really like on the iPhone how you can select a row and have it open up a few extra buttons or options. Jan 30 23:44:46 Just throwin' that out there :) Jan 30 23:46:06 romainguy_____, here's the layout...can't figure out why the imageviews won't center: http://android.paste-bin.com/13013 Jan 30 23:46:25 well Jan 30 23:46:30 columns are 0-indexed Jan 30 23:46:36 so stretchColumns should read 0,1,2 Jan 30 23:46:41 ahh Jan 30 23:47:09 that might make it look like they aren't centered Jan 30 23:47:45 nice, thanks romainguy____ Jan 30 23:47:51 that was it Jan 30 23:47:53 :) Jan 30 23:48:45 you know "romainguy" is available Jan 30 23:49:12 ::) Jan 30 23:49:14