**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Feb 01 02:59:57 2008
Feb 01 13:38:50 <skicson> offtopic but, wow. $MSFT makes bid for Yahoo
Feb 01 13:41:53 <davidw> yeah
Feb 01 13:42:45 <SUPERMARION> skicson, they recognized that they need better advertising and search software :)
Feb 01 13:43:02 <davidw> Yahoo's doing some good open source stuff as of late...hadoop, lucene and so on
Feb 01 13:43:12 <davidw> It would be unfortunate for that to come to an end
Feb 01 13:45:08 <skicson> i don't see integration between those companies going smoothly
Feb 01 13:46:58 <davidw> nope
Feb 01 13:47:02 <davidw> not at all
Feb 01 13:48:31 <SUPERMARION> the shares price increased about 60%
Feb 01 13:48:34 <SUPERMARION> :)
Feb 01 13:50:33 * davidw wishes someone would make a big offer for DedaSys LLC
Feb 01 13:51:15 <skicson> davidw: lol, been there
Feb 01 13:51:42 * davidw would settle for "One meeeeellion dollars"
Feb 01 14:14:23 <cybereagle> or a big 'lay-zer'
Feb 01 16:43:33 <michaelnovakjr> RIP yahoo
Feb 01 16:43:44 <Zer0Her0> hehe
Feb 01 16:44:06 <zhobbs> yep
Feb 01 16:44:11 <michaelnovakjr> they can't pass that up.... the 22 billion in cash is more than they are worth
Feb 01 16:47:06 <zhobbs> that's a lotta money
Feb 01 16:48:13 <michaelnovakjr> oh ye
Feb 01 16:48:13 <michaelnovakjr> a
Feb 01 17:04:05 <jasta> michaelnovakjr: This looks strategic.  I think Microsoft is scared that such a transaction would not be approved by the soon-to-be new US administration.
Feb 01 17:05:28 <michaelnovakjr> i think it would be approved jasta
Feb 01 17:05:44 <jasta> yes, i think it will be right now.
Feb 01 17:05:57 <jasta> but in 4 years, i suspect the political landscape might not be so friendly to Microsoft.
Feb 01 17:06:05 <jasta> err, 2-4 years :)
Feb 01 17:06:41 <michaelnovakjr> true jasta, but don't forget that this wouldn't be a monopoly because Google is a far better producing competitor than Microsoft/Yahoo could ever be
Feb 01 17:07:10 <michaelnovakjr> so it doesn't seem unfair to anyone but Microsoft and Yahoo ;)
Feb 01 17:07:24 <jasta> true.
Feb 01 17:07:35 <michaelnovakjr> dont forget Yahoo runs PHP..... we all know Microsoft's take on using Open Source
Feb 01 17:09:55 <zhobbs> hey romainguy
Feb 01 17:10:04 <romainguy> hey
Feb 01 17:10:29 <zhobbs> you have any idea if streaming media will work in the coming sdk release?
Feb 01 17:11:19 <romainguy> I have no idea, sorry
Feb 01 17:11:45 <zhobbs> no problem..just trying to plan some features...
Feb 01 17:33:04 <jasta> zhobbs: streaming media is not supported?  i thought you could hook right into the AudioInputStream or whatever.
Feb 01 17:33:28 <zhobbs> jasta, I didn't think anyone's gotten streaming video working
Feb 01 17:33:37 <jasta> oh.
Feb 01 17:33:45 <jasta> my app is going to depend on streaming audio, i certainly hope that works.
Feb 01 17:33:59 <zhobbs> might want to check on that...
Feb 01 17:34:02 <michaelnovakjr> haha, jasta that would not be cool
Feb 01 17:47:39 <zhobbs> this is a media player that saves the stream to disk then plays...but that's pretty weak:
Feb 01 17:47:39 <zhobbs> http://davanum.wordpress.com/2007/12/29/android-videomusic-player-sample-from-local-disk-as-well-as-remote-urls/
Feb 01 17:52:57 <winksaville> It's my understanding that Android can only play from a "file", hence I've added issue #83
Feb 01 17:53:17 <zhobbs> yeah, I hope that's fixed in this sdk coming out
Feb 01 18:02:34 <xbit> and rtsp streams :)
Feb 01 18:06:20 <zhobbs> xbit, you know if rtsp video works?
Feb 01 18:07:36 <xbit> no it doesn't iirc
Feb 01 18:27:11 <michaelnovakjr> question: are there limitations to what parts of java you can use with android?
Feb 01 18:27:18 <michaelnovakjr> any java libs that don't work with it?
Feb 01 18:33:07 <davidw> awt
Feb 01 18:33:09 <davidw> obviously
Feb 01 18:33:49 <michaelnovakjr> what about JavaMail?
Feb 01 18:35:15 * Lede holds his heart at thought people porting existing java blob code into android
Feb 01 18:38:26 <michaelnovakjr> ?
Feb 01 18:39:18 <michaelnovakjr> what does Lede mean?
Feb 01 18:40:08 <jasta> michaelnovakjr: He means that most people who write Java code disregard efficiency and write bloated monstrotities.
Feb 01 18:40:12 <jasta> monstrosities*
Feb 01 18:40:25 <jasta> so just plugging those jar files into Android code would be disasterous.
Feb 01 18:40:38 <michaelnovakjr> so he is implying that JavaMail is one of them?
Feb 01 18:40:56 <jasta> obviously, Android will run on platforms that are at least 1 order of magnitude slower than the target platform.
Feb 01 18:41:10 <romainguy_> michaelnovakjr: Java Mail is huge for a mobile device
Feb 01 18:42:24 <jasta> In that way, Android kind of defeats code reusability.  But perhaps this will encourage a small uprising in efficient and light-weight Java libraries
Feb 01 18:42:28 <jasta> That would certainly be a nice blessing :)
Feb 01 18:43:09 <michaelnovakjr> true
Feb 01 18:43:30 <michaelnovakjr> what does gmail use for a mobile mail lib? anyone know?
Feb 01 18:43:37 <jasta> Maybe then we'd get fewer people complaining that Java is slow compard to <insert language here>.  Java's fine, it's the brain-damaged programmers that are writing code for it that are the bigger problem :)
Feb 01 18:43:42 <zhobbs> in house stuff I bet
Feb 01 18:44:12 <jasta> michaelnovakjr: E-mail protocols, btw, are quite simple.  However, GMail probably doesn't use IMAP/SMTP, it must use some special GMail communication.
Feb 01 18:44:19 <zhobbs> ohh geez...statements like that can start wars
Feb 01 18:45:18 <jasta> zhobbs: Fire away :)
Feb 01 18:46:40 <michaelnovakjr> its programmers in general
Feb 01 18:46:51 <michaelnovakjr> some people just can't write good code
Feb 01 18:47:12 <davidw> so why do they all take up java? ;-P
Feb 01 18:47:22 <davidw> ...kidding...
Feb 01 18:47:32 <michaelnovakjr> because it can be easier than for instance C++
Feb 01 18:47:42 <davidw> the PHP camp has claimed its fair share too (ok, I'll stop:-)
Feb 01 18:47:48 <michaelnovakjr> haha
Feb 01 18:47:49 <zhobbs> changing business requirements can cause some pretty bad code
Feb 01 18:48:11 <michaelnovakjr> possibly, depending on the programmer
Feb 01 18:48:36 <michaelnovakjr> also, tell me why do people program without unit testing still?
Feb 01 18:48:38 <davidw> I've actually enjoyed J2ME stuff, because...yeah, it forces people to not monkey around
Feb 01 18:49:15 <xbit> because unit testing is overrated shit'
Feb 01 18:49:24 <xbit> i guess
Feb 01 18:49:26 <michaelnovakjr> huh?
Feb 01 18:49:38 <michaelnovakjr> are you kidding?
Feb 01 18:49:57 <xbit> yes and no
Feb 01 18:50:14 <michaelnovakjr> if it is done right, it can make your code a lot more stable
Feb 01 18:50:30 <michaelnovakjr> anytime my projects go out to QA, the results are not nearly as crazy as some others
Feb 01 18:50:59 <xbit> maybe
Feb 01 18:51:12 <davidw> automated testing is a good thing
Feb 01 18:51:16 <xbit> sure
Feb 01 18:51:23 <davidw> I don't always add it until I'm done exploring though
Feb 01 18:51:24 <romainguy_> davidw: but it can be very hard depending on what you're trying to test
Feb 01 18:51:27 <xbit> but it doesn't have to be unit testing
Feb 01 18:51:36 <romainguy_> testing a UI toolkit for instance... :))
Feb 01 18:51:41 <xbit> unit testing can only tell you so much
Feb 01 18:51:53 <michaelnovakjr> of course
Feb 01 18:52:08 <michaelnovakjr> but it saves the really dumb bugs from coming back to you from QA
Feb 01 18:52:09 <davidw> romainguy_, http://wiki.tcl.tk/1691 <- you guys stole their name:-)
Feb 01 18:52:34 <michaelnovakjr> haha
Feb 01 18:52:47 <xbit> it hasn't saved me, yet
Feb 01 18:53:18 <michaelnovakjr> dusting off that website.. tcl/tk??? does anyone use that anymore?
Feb 01 18:54:12 <xbit> eggdrop? well, tcl at least ;)
Feb 01 18:54:15 <davidw> michaelnovakjr, sure
Feb 01 18:54:30 <davidw> Tcl got a lot of things right a long time ago
Feb 01 18:54:44 <michaelnovakjr> my previous job used Tcl and I hated it with a passion
Feb 01 18:54:57 <davidw> a lot of people never really figured it out
Feb 01 18:55:21 <michaelnovakjr> true, it just didn't feel right to me
Feb 01 18:55:25 <jasta> I've never worked with Tcl, but a language whose acronym can be pronouncd "tickle" can only go so far :)
Feb 01 18:55:30 <michaelnovakjr> but then again this was a web environment
Feb 01 18:55:34 <davidw> it's *different* from Java/Python/C/Ruby/etc...
Feb 01 18:55:37 <michaelnovakjr> haha
Feb 01 18:55:39 <michaelnovakjr> yea
Feb 01 18:56:12 <romainguy_> Argh
Feb 01 18:56:18 * romainguy_ has bad memories of Tcl/Tk
Feb 01 18:56:20 <romainguy_> especially Tk
Feb 01 18:56:41 <davidw> how so?
Feb 01 18:57:10 <davidw> I think *the* problem with Tk was that it made gui programming easy for a lot of people with no clue about how to make a gui, let alone a nice one
Feb 01 18:57:19 <davidw> sort of like the 'php problem' with the web...
Feb 01 18:57:34 <davidw> thus garnering it a bad reputation
Feb 01 18:57:38 <romainguy_> davidw: I just hated the language and the APIs
Feb 01 18:57:52 <romainguy_> davidw: and Hecl reminds me of it :))
Feb 01 18:58:26 <davidw> Hecl is similar to Tcl because if you want to do a very small footprint interpreter, that's a pretty good path to follow
Feb 01 18:59:03 <davidw> it's different in some ways though...which makes it a lot more fun
Feb 01 18:59:29 <davidw> I got a socket-based remote shell for Android apps working... I'll have to polish it up and post it this weekend
Feb 01 19:00:37 <davidw> I think you have to have read Tcl's C code, or have a similar low level understanding to start appreciating it
Feb 01 19:01:18 <romainguy_> Somehow I find it wrong if you need to understand a language's implementation to appreciate it :)
Feb 01 19:02:10 <davidw> well... maybe not quite that far, but there's an elegance to it that's perhaps more obvious once you 'get it'
Feb 01 19:02:51 <davidw> if you're ingrained in the C/Python/Java/etc... tradition and try and bring that to Tcl, you struggle
Feb 01 19:03:09 <romainguy_> actually...
Feb 01 19:03:09 <davidw> which probably means a lot of people struggle with it
Feb 01 19:03:15 <romainguy_> Tcl is the first language I learned
Feb 01 19:03:31 <zhobbs> I haven't messed with tcl at all, but when I looked at hecl my head hurt
Feb 01 19:04:05 <zhobbs> as you said though, I grew up on c-type languages
Feb 01 19:04:25 <davidw> zhobbs, what about it?
Feb 01 19:05:18 <davidw> romainguy_, there are definitely things about Tcl that I don't like, but I think I can safely say that for any language I've used, and it's had a good run for something originally built in the late '80ies
Feb 01 19:05:42 <romainguy_> davidw: sure, why not. I'm just saying that *I* don't like it
Feb 01 19:06:21 <davidw> anything in particular?
Feb 01 19:07:26 <davidw> I think Tcl's great, so I'm very curious about why it wasn't as successful as it could have been... I've learned a lot looking into it
Feb 01 19:09:54 <davidw> If you take the attitude that the technology is pretty good despite its faults, it leads you to people issues.  The easy out which you get from some fans of less popular languages is some variant of "people are just to stupid to get it", but I don't buy that either.
Feb 01 19:10:45 <romainguy_> davidw: Oh yeah that "people are just to stupid to get it" is what drives Factor for instance
Feb 01 19:10:56 <davidw> ahahahhahahaha:-)
Feb 01 19:11:06 <romainguy_> (another language that looks really powerful but which just makes me want to die when I try to read a sample code)
Feb 01 19:11:11 <davidw> that guy is the owner of a grade A, class 1 attitude, IMO
Feb 01 19:11:17 <romainguy_> yeah :)
Feb 01 19:11:24 <romainguy_> I worked a bit with him back in the old days
Feb 01 19:11:28 <romainguy_> when he was writing jEdit
Feb 01 19:12:27 <davidw> I think stack based languages are basically insane for practical work... I mean, I want a compiler or interpreter to take care of parameters instead of having to do it in my head.  I think learning forth is probably educational/mind bending though
Feb 01 19:12:33 <zhobbs> factor looks like RPN programming
Feb 01 19:12:39 <romainguy_> zhobbs: it is
Feb 01 19:12:43 <romainguy_> (in part)
Feb 01 19:13:04 <zhobbs> yeah, used to write little scripts like for my hp calc...helps on tests
Feb 01 19:13:06 <romainguy_> davidw: you know there's something wrong when you have to put a comment on each word to explain what are the in and out stack effects :)
Feb 01 19:14:33 <davidw> Tcl and perhaps in some ways more so Hecl are (very vaguely) Lisp like things without the 'fancy language aspects' and with fewer parenthesis
Feb 01 19:15:06 <davidw> Tcl revolves around string representations of things, which sort of hurts it in some ways, and is something we've moved away from with Hecl
Feb 01 19:15:43 <davidw> although the old thing about Tcl containing all values only as strings internally hasn't been true in something like 10 years
Feb 01 19:18:35 <davidw> something I found funny a year or two back when I started doing a lot of Ruby was how a lot of things Tcl gets very right (i18n, threads) are missing in Ruby, and despite that it still managed to make a big leap in popularity
Feb 01 19:19:26 <xbit> i guess tcl didn't have rails
Feb 01 19:20:49 <davidw> xbit, right.  It had Tk, but they let that rot for too long
Feb 01 19:21:16 <romainguy_> well Python shipped (ships?) with Tk
Feb 01 19:21:45 <davidw> I had a friend who worked at scriptics who tried to convince them that Qt and Gtk were the coming thing, and they ignored him
Feb 01 19:22:14 <davidw> it's still one of the best ways of doing x-platform guis
Feb 01 19:22:28 <davidw> especially with 'tile', which is finally a concerted effort to make it look good again
Feb 01 19:24:09 <davidw> I think part of the problem with the whole enterprise was JO getting rich and bailing out on the whole thing - the resulting group of guys running it are very bright engineers, but I think that languages either need to be big, stable corporate things (Java), or run by one guy with a "Vision"
Feb 01 19:24:31 <davidw> (or lots of visions, in the case of Larry Wall?:-)
Feb 01 19:50:41 <jasta> davidw: You know, C was built in the early 80's and I would say it has had a much more impressive run than Tcl :)
Feb 01 19:51:22 <jasta> Especially considering that it was invented primarily to write UNIX and nothing else.
Feb 01 19:51:41 <davidw> C dates to 1972
Feb 01 19:51:47 <davidw> according to wikipedia
Feb 01 19:52:54 <davidw> C has had a more impressive run than anything else out there, although Fortran beets it for longevity
Feb 01 19:53:10 <davidw> (so does lisp, but it's never really been all that popular)
Feb 01 19:56:17 <davidw> beets/beats
Feb 01 20:15:42 <michaelnovakjr> c is great
Feb 01 20:17:22 <davidw> I like it a lot, I just never have any reason to use it these days
Feb 01 20:18:47 <zhobbs> I like c, I want to get an embedded systems job...I need to get a job...
Feb 01 20:20:40 <davidw> I was headed in that direction at one point
Feb 01 20:21:13 <davidw> there's just so much more out there in terms of other fields, though
Feb 01 20:21:22 <skicson> anybody know an easy way to tell if a particular activity is running?  i could use a static in the Activity but...ick.
Feb 01 20:21:28 <zhobbs> I just got my EE and paid for college with code so embedded might be the place for me
Feb 01 20:22:06 <zhobbs> skicson, this might help: http://davanum.wordpress.com/2007/12/18/android-task-manager-primitive-prototype/
Feb 01 20:22:48 <skicson> zhobbs: cool, thanks
Feb 01 20:22:58 <davidw> zhobbs, sounds reasonable
Feb 01 20:25:21 <davidw> man, I hate the alphabet soup syndrome in the java world: http://www.infoworld.com/article/08/01/23/Google-Android-leaves-Sun-wondering_1.html
Feb 01 20:46:15 <jasta> what's the alphabet soup syndrome?
Feb 01 20:46:53 <jasta> skicson: Your activity is in the foreground if a call to onStart() was made and no call to onStop or Freeze.
Feb 01 20:47:15 <jasta> skicson: You should track your own status if that matters to you, in other words.
Feb 01 20:47:24 <jasta> don't rely on the ActivityManager to do it for you.
Feb 01 20:47:53 <jasta> also, if you mean running as your process is alive, then that should be obvious to you what the problem is :)
Feb 01 20:51:07 <davidw> jasta, too many acronyms
Feb 01 20:52:49 <Cpudan80> Hello all
Feb 01 20:53:03 <Cpudan80> I need some info about th android project...
Feb 01 20:53:23 <Cpudan80> Is it possible to simulate using the camera with the SDK?
Feb 01 20:54:16 <Cpudan80> Im on this team that is developing some image processing stuff -- and we want to push the app out to a phone, but we need a way to test how to interface with the phone (ie recall pictures, send them to our server for analysis, etc)
Feb 01 20:54:43 <Cpudan80> Since there is no "real" phone to mess with ---- how can we test functions (ie. the camera)
Feb 01 20:55:09 <davidw> Cpudan80, look around...there are some ways to fake it
Feb 01 20:55:46 <Cpudan80> davidw: Do you have a good reference point off hand... or?
Feb 01 20:55:54 <davidw> www.google.com
Feb 01 20:56:08 <Cpudan80> Wonderful, thanks
Feb 01 20:58:08 <jasta> davidw: oh yeah, i knew that.
Feb 01 20:58:52 <davidw> jasta, in particular, the JSR thing drives me crazy... 82 123 67... just give it a name already
Feb 01 21:14:10 <jasta> davidw: Oh yeah, that's really pathetic.
Feb 01 21:14:54 <jasta> but it does give it a nice descriptive way to refer to the API :)
Feb 01 21:15:33 <davidw> nice if you are storing it in an array.  For people, I don't think it's quite so good
Feb 01 21:16:25 <jasta> no, i mean when you say "does this implement JSR-###?", nice and descriptive.
Feb 01 21:16:27 <davidw> it forces you to do a lookup each time the thing is mentioned, and instantly loses people not in possession of a translation table in their own heads
Feb 01 21:16:48 <jasta> still, it would be preferred to just name the APIs.
Feb 01 21:16:54 <jasta> something that is also descriptive, but easier to remember :)
Feb 01 21:17:11 <davidw> yeah, a just a word or two to give you a hint
Feb 01 21:17:11 <jasta> Like Apache does.
Feb 01 21:17:26 <davidw> 'bluetooth', '3d', that kind of thing
Feb 01 21:18:06 <jasta> The Apache Foundation, btw, is an interesting thing.  I can't for the life of me figure out how they managed to logically transition from an HTTP server into such heavy-weight Java facilities, but they have done it so masterfully.  I am in awe.
Feb 01 21:19:07 <jasta> The contribution they have made to the open source community is staggering.
Feb 01 21:19:28 <jasta> Hell, Android would be nothing without them.
Feb 01 21:19:34 <davidw> it's getting a bit big for my tastes, but those admittedly run to the...mmmm 'anarchic' for lack of a better and less loaded word
Feb 01 21:20:19 <jasta> davidw: Nonsense, Apache is well managed and very well segregated.
Feb 01 21:20:33 <jasta> Each project is clearly given careful thought to how it should, if at all, interact with any other piece.
Feb 01 21:21:14 <davidw> I didn't say Apache was chaotic - quite the opposite.  My preferences are for small and nimble
Feb 01 21:21:50 <jasta> Oh, so you want chaos :)
Feb 01 21:22:37 <davidw> there are definitely some hoops in the ASF these days... we/they try and keep them to a minimum, but it's sort of inevitable as an organization grows
Feb 01 21:22:44 <cutmasta> dunno but JFYI
Feb 01 21:22:46 <cutmasta> http://www.android-portal.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/02/androidlive.JPG
Feb 01 21:22:49 <jasta> I'm not saying I'd like to go join them and start writing code under their umbrella (frankly, I despise the Apache License).  I'm just saying that their contribution is great to enabling the penetration of open source.
Feb 01 21:23:01 <davidw> jasta, that goes without saying
Feb 01 21:23:25 <jasta> It impresses me, is all.  I find it amazing that they transitioned from just a web server to this :)
Feb 01 21:23:32 <davidw> cutmasta, I'd be more impressed if it were taken in front of that lake/those mountains ;-)
Feb 01 21:23:44 <cutmasta> lol
Feb 01 21:23:45 <cutmasta> hehe
Feb 01 21:23:54 <jasta> cutmasta: that's pretty old news.
Feb 01 21:23:54 <davidw> jasta, the governance structure and focus on community are good
Feb 01 21:24:27 <jasta> davidw: Without Harmony, I doubt that Android would have even been possible.  That is a massive project.  I can hardly comprehend the task.
Feb 01 21:24:46 <davidw> it has been impressive to watch
Feb 01 21:24:56 <davidw> they've made progress very rapidly
Feb 01 21:25:02 <davidw> part of that is the license, though
Feb 01 21:25:12 <davidw> well... that it's BSD-like
Feb 01 21:25:24 <davidw> Harmony got some contributions from places like IBM, IIRC
Feb 01 21:25:48 <cutmasta> jasta, did not know thats old
Feb 01 21:26:15 <jasta> Why does that depend on the license?  The contributions were introduced upstream, and so the GPL would have been just as conducive.
Feb 01 21:27:17 <davidw> jasta, corporations like BSD style for certain things because it means they can just take it and use it, no strings attached
Feb 01 21:27:28 <davidw> smart corporations realize that they should give back in any case, forced to or not
Feb 01 21:27:43 <jasta> davidw: Yes, I see your point.
Feb 01 21:28:32 <davidw> if you are going to do a proprietary product one way or the other, you simply can't use GPL stuff.  So if you can use some BSD code, all the better - and if you're smart, you'll give a little bit back
Feb 01 21:28:38 <jasta> As a side note, I've heard rumors that Android uses a very old release of Harmony?
Feb 01 21:28:46 <davidw> no idea:-)
Feb 01 21:33:48 <jasta> Boy, this 700MHz thing is interesting to follow.
Feb 01 21:34:03 <jasta> It really looks like Google may have bought it.
Feb 01 21:34:08 <zhobbs> sounds like C block bidding might be over
Feb 01 21:34:24 <zhobbs> it's hard to tell
Feb 01 21:34:46 <zhobbs> If they did...that'd be huge news
Feb 01 21:35:49 <zhobbs> I read some article somewhere that predicts if google does get it they'll trade it for some bandwidth in the higher regions which is better for wimax
Feb 01 21:36:05 <jasta> zhobbs: Yes, it would be.  Yeah, I heard that as well zhobbs.
Feb 01 21:36:34 <zhobbs> wimax + voip
Feb 01 21:37:39 <jasta> i can't wait to see who the high bidders were, and who won
Feb 01 21:37:45 <jasta> that will be revealed in march, right?
Feb 01 21:38:15 <zhobbs> It could happen sooner I think...once all of the auctions are done (inactive)
Feb 01 21:38:27 <zhobbs> not sure on that though
Feb 01 21:39:27 <jasta> hmm, perhaps.
Feb 01 21:40:12 <jasta> I'm very excited to for February :)
Feb 01 21:40:18 <jasta> s/to //
Feb 01 21:40:18 <infobot> jasta meant: I'm very excited for February :)
Feb 01 21:40:25 <jasta> Oh fuck that stupid bot.
Feb 01 21:40:33 <zhobbs> worked by the bot
Feb 01 21:40:39 <jasta> Can we please ban that thing?
Feb 01 21:40:42 <zhobbs> :)
Feb 01 21:40:56 <zhobbs> infobot, what else do you do?
Feb 01 21:40:57 * infobot else do you do to understand recursion, you must first understand recursion
Feb 01 21:41:08 <jasta> s/^$/<-- stupid/
Feb 01 21:41:13 <jasta> damn ;P
Feb 01 21:41:31 <zhobbs> hehe
Feb 01 21:41:39 <jasta> oh, that wouldn't match anyway.  my perlfu is weak these days.
Feb 01 21:41:46 <jasta> s/^.*/<-- stupid/
Feb 01 21:41:53 <jasta> oh well ;)
Feb 01 21:42:20 <jasta> I'm done playing now.  But still, we should ban it.
Feb 01 22:00:46 <Cpudan80> Is there a way to decrease the size of the emulated phone?
Feb 01 22:00:49 <Cpudan80> It's too big
Feb 01 22:03:10 <zhobbs> you can choose different screen sizes
Feb 01 22:03:47 <zhobbs> in eclipse Run -> Open Run Dialog -> Emulator tab
Feb 01 22:04:00 <zhobbs> or "emulator -skin QVGA-P" or something like that
Feb 01 22:41:51 <jasta> Cpudan80: you can also remove the skin completely, showing only the screen.
Feb 01 22:42:08 <Cpudan80> no I need the button
Feb 01 22:42:10 <Cpudan80> buttons*
Feb 01 22:42:10 <jasta> to do so, specify -skin <skin-name-in-lowercase>
Feb 01 22:42:15 <Cpudan80> Yeah I fixed it
Feb 01 22:42:16 <jasta> Cpudan80: Why do you need the buttons?
Feb 01 22:42:35 <Cpudan80> testing
Feb 01 22:42:44 <jasta> Use the keyboard.
Feb 01 22:42:50 <Cpudan80> hrm....
Feb 01 22:42:51 <Cpudan80> true
Feb 01 22:42:52 <jasta> All of the buttons map to keys.
Feb 01 22:43:15 <Cpudan80> I really wish there was an easier way to get the camera to work
Feb 01 22:43:37 <jasta> Anyway, you should note that the Android Developer Challenge will be judged solely using HVGA-P.
Feb 01 22:44:02 <jasta> Cpudan80: Eventually there will be, of course.  I'm certain they will provide better emulation of that moving forward.
Feb 01 22:44:11 <Cpudan80> Well I need it now
Feb 01 22:44:32 <jasta> Well, there is a tool that can let you simulate the camera preview, but I don't know of its status.
Feb 01 22:44:41 <Cpudan80> Yeah I found one
Feb 01 22:44:51 <Cpudan80> See Im working on a group project
Feb 01 22:44:56 <jasta> Great?
Feb 01 22:45:18 <Cpudan80> I havent tested it yet
Feb 01 22:48:50 <jasta> K?
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Sat Feb 02 02:59:57 2008