**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Apr 21 02:59:56 2008 Apr 21 03:20:05 romainguy Apr 21 03:20:08 what is up Apr 21 03:24:06 hey Apr 21 03:32:43 this channel is quiet Apr 21 03:33:41 people are recovering from the challenge still it seems :) Apr 21 03:33:57 indeed Apr 21 03:57:31 romainguy__: not me, i'm right back in it coding hehe Apr 21 03:57:44 i've been working on coding as well Apr 21 03:57:57 i'm optimizing the hell out of my code ;) Apr 21 03:58:03 the traceview tool is very useful, btw :) Apr 21 03:58:11 my question is if the time zone configuration on the emulator what the phone will be like Apr 21 03:58:25 will sqlite always be GMT? Apr 21 03:58:32 or will it use the offset Apr 21 03:58:47 sqlite3 doesn't actually have a DATE awareness. the DATE affinity is just TEXT. Apr 21 03:59:05 you can return a timestamp though Apr 21 03:59:17 does it pull from the system/ Apr 21 04:04:00 be bac Apr 21 04:14:47 Mon Apr 21 09:34:20 IST 2008 Apr 21 05:26:38 Tylor_really: ey Apr 21 05:26:51 Tylor_really: how is it going? Apr 21 07:40:08 re Apr 21 07:41:18 re Apr 21 07:41:29 varjag, wb :) Apr 21 07:42:41 ;) Apr 21 10:20:07 http://www.digitalhobbit.com/archives/2008/04/13/on-leaving-google/ Apr 21 10:24:30 Every engineer gets either two 24″ or one 30″ monitor, as well as a company laptop (either MacBook Pro or Thinkpad). Apr 21 10:26:14 old news Apr 21 10:26:42 a week old Apr 21 10:27:32 that's a nice perspective on why even google cannot keep everyone happy Apr 21 10:28:33 (the fact they get laptops and monitors is old) Apr 21 10:28:47 oh that part is old Apr 21 10:28:49 I would be curious to ask him how much did he earn working for google... then I could kill my self :D Apr 21 10:29:09 look at all those free food Apr 21 10:29:19 that's what is impressive for me Apr 21 10:29:29 Andy80, if you read around its generally less than what one gets at M$ Apr 21 10:29:31 more perks though Apr 21 10:29:36 walk in.. eat whatever Apr 21 10:29:58 duey: ok... it could be less.... but... how much do you think it is, about? Apr 21 10:30:01 but i'm glad doing my own thing Apr 21 10:30:24 re: the pay, must be atleast 80K Apr 21 10:30:37 80.000$ / year? Apr 21 10:30:46 is it less? Apr 21 10:31:12 I don't know how much is it..... I was asking to you :) Apr 21 10:31:25 80k / year Apr 21 10:31:27 http://no2google.wordpress.com/2007/06/24/life-at-google-the-microsoftie-perspective/ Apr 21 10:31:40 oh my god :( Apr 21 10:31:49 about 6.500 $ / month :( Apr 21 10:31:56 ok... I can kill my self :°°°° Apr 21 10:32:10 may be left to earn 800k/yr Apr 21 10:32:19 do you know the average earning here -.- ? Apr 21 10:32:33 no Apr 21 10:32:36 what is it? Apr 21 10:32:43 about.... 1000 euro/month -.- Apr 21 10:33:01 and you have to pay food, fuel to travel or train ticket ecc... Apr 21 10:33:20 here.. its $500 / month Apr 21 10:33:22 Speaking of Android. Anybody knows, is it possible to have two different Context obkect's in one environment? Apr 21 10:33:30 muthu: before you ask... no, I don't live in Africa.... I live in Italy -.- Apr 21 10:33:42 muthu: 500$ / month ??? Apr 21 10:33:43 O_o Apr 21 10:33:49 where do you live? Apr 21 10:33:51 feeling better huh Apr 21 10:33:55 chennai, india Apr 21 10:33:59 ahhhhhhh Apr 21 10:34:01 india... ok Apr 21 10:34:14 Even in Russia it is 1-2k$/ month Apr 21 10:34:35 i earn 2k/m part time Apr 21 10:34:39 but software folks make a bit more in india Apr 21 10:34:40 but I can assure you that 1000 is very little for italy :( Apr 21 10:35:03 duey: System Administration? Apr 21 10:35:08 no Apr 21 10:36:09 I'm looking for possibilities of remote employemtn now... Haven't liked day job Apr 21 10:37:33 ah, he's leaving to cofound a company Apr 21 10:37:42 mobile / social networking Apr 21 10:37:51 damn, that seems to be rage these days ;) Apr 21 10:37:56 lol Apr 21 10:38:03 bubble is nearly bursting too Apr 21 10:38:08 guess so Apr 21 10:38:12 sounds like a really stupid idea to me Apr 21 10:38:21 duey: why? Apr 21 10:38:30 that's a gold mine Apr 21 10:38:31 starting a social networking website? Apr 21 10:38:38 how many are there Apr 21 10:38:41 no the mobile space Apr 21 10:38:46 oh right Apr 21 10:38:59 the killer combo Apr 21 10:39:03 :\ Apr 21 10:39:24 there'll be a couple of big winners Apr 21 10:40:16 everyone tired of java Apr 21 10:40:22 got a google conf to go to in the morning Apr 21 10:40:25 should be good Apr 21 10:40:26 free food :D Apr 21 10:40:31 oh yeah Apr 21 11:08:21 Andy80, where in Italy? Apr 21 11:08:46 davidw: in my case I live in tuscany Apr 21 11:09:13 some people also earn 1200-1500 but it's more rare Apr 21 11:09:25 most of people earn 1000 Apr 21 11:09:28 Italy's pretty messed up right now Apr 21 11:10:11 Is that euros? Apr 21 11:10:15 yeah Apr 21 11:10:20 not only "now"... in the latest 10 years..... Apr 21 11:10:23 yes euro Apr 21 11:11:21 off course prices are high :P for example... you pay 5-600 euro/month for a very small apartment Apr 21 11:11:43 lot of people here don't have money to finish the month... Apr 21 11:12:07 living alone is almost impossible.... Apr 21 11:12:32 lot of people have to live with their parents, because they cannot afford an own home... (me too) Apr 21 11:13:10 what's wrong in last 10 yrs? Apr 21 11:13:12 well, that's *partially* a cultural thing... in many other countries people will find a few roommates and find a way to move away from home Apr 21 11:13:37 agree, culture plays a role Apr 21 11:13:38 or move to other country Apr 21 11:13:55 varjag, that's the problem: living in Italy is very, very nice in many ways:-) Apr 21 11:14:12 if it were just a dump, it would be easy to just go somewhere else. It isn't, though. Apr 21 11:14:42 davidw, you know that joke about tourism in hell :) Apr 21 11:15:29 muthu, basically they have 1) a 'social model' that is sort of a failure, and 2) have never really liberalized/reformed many things 3) and have many businesses that have been protected for too long and are finding that competing with, say, china in something like t-shirts is a losing proposition Apr 21 11:15:54 got it Apr 21 11:16:20 http://www.economist.com/opinion/displaystory.cfm?story_id=11050099 Apr 21 11:16:32 checking.. Apr 21 11:16:45 that's another one of the problems;-) Apr 21 11:17:27 it's all rather frustrating, because Italy is full of smart, hard working people who are great at doing innovative things Apr 21 11:18:42 heard italy is a great place Apr 21 11:18:57 it is Apr 21 11:20:42 I think it will get better in the future... but it may not be until the 'baby boomer' generation retires/dies/stops voting Apr 21 11:21:06 right Apr 21 11:21:17 when the government doesn't get it, its a struggle Apr 21 11:21:32 davidw: finding a roommate is not a problem... I make you a clear example :) if you are a student in Florence and you want a room with other 3-4 students, you pay about 350 euro/month for ONE ROOM... :) understand now? Apr 21 11:22:10 muthu, italy is very 'old', and people are afraid of change Apr 21 11:22:27 old in the sense of average age Apr 21 11:22:34 right Apr 21 11:22:48 second only to Japan if I'm not mistaken Apr 21 11:22:49 Andy80: its also a cultural thing, right? Apr 21 11:23:10 muthu, well, without doubt, it's expensive, but still... I know people with good jobs who live at home Apr 21 11:23:21 davidw: how can people make more children? They don't have money to live themselves... it's very difficoult to allow a new child to have all necessary :( Apr 21 11:23:23 yeah, in india too Apr 21 11:23:45 the last guy I worked for was my age (32), had a very successful company, and finally got an appartment - right next to his parents... Apr 21 11:24:16 i can understand, people live with parents in india - although its changing Apr 21 11:24:33 me too live with parents... Apr 21 11:24:51 Andy80: are you married? Apr 21 11:25:01 I'm a student now... ok... I left my job to study at university... but other people that work, cannot afford that too Apr 21 11:25:20 no, I'm not Apr 21 11:25:32 ok Apr 21 11:25:43 that's part of the problem: in places like the US, you can work while you study, but italy's rigid labor laws and inflexible system prevent that Apr 21 11:28:36 davidw: well... I "could" work while I study. Law doesn't prevent me to do that... the problem is the time :) on the morning I've to follow lessons, on the afternoon I've to study... and sometime also in the evening I've to study... Apr 21 11:28:51 eh eh :) Apr 21 11:29:04 Andy80, in the US, you can choose when to take classes, and how many classes to take each semester Apr 21 11:29:08 some universities doesn't require you to follow lessons... so some people can work too Apr 21 11:30:32 you can choose it here too... but you don't have the same freedom about working time :( Apr 21 11:30:51 you can choose morning or afternoon... that's all you can choose Apr 21 11:30:52 students are treated a bit more like customers in the US, which also makes sense - make people with the ability to do so pay the full price, and offer means tested assistance for those who aren't well off. Italy takes the route of simply making the university cheap for everyone Apr 21 11:31:40 davidw: cheap??? I pay 2.000 euro/year for my univ :( that's not that cheap for us... Apr 21 11:31:43 in india you cannot work when you go to college Apr 21 11:31:52 impossible, because college is fulltime Apr 21 11:32:06 Andy80, that's really, really cheap Apr 21 11:32:17 yeah, compared to US Apr 21 11:32:25 20k /yr ? Apr 21 11:32:39 davidw: well... not for people that earn 15.000 / year :) Apr 21 11:33:14 Andy80, thus my point about means tested assistance Apr 21 11:33:20 muthu, easily Apr 21 11:33:27 much more for well known schools Apr 21 11:33:33 correct Apr 21 11:34:44 it would be great if I could follow lessons from my home ;) Apr 21 11:35:45 but I've to move from my city (Pistoia) to Florence every day.... It takes me about 1 hour to get there... and 1 hur to come back. 2 hours I coud study or work! Apr 21 11:39:08 otoh if you worked you could rent in florence and skip the commute Apr 21 12:16:08 Hmm, what's difference between Vector and ListArray? Apr 21 12:18:07 I mean, ArrayList... Apr 21 12:21:33 the standard answer: vector is syncronized while AL is not Apr 21 12:22:53 Oh, interesting. Thanks. Apr 21 15:41:19 yawn Apr 21 15:41:24 better get going to work :) Apr 21 15:41:52 mornin Apr 21 15:42:09 jasta: reduced the sync time? Apr 21 15:42:58 no, i've moved on to other parts of the code now that i have it below 10m Apr 21 15:44:57 ok Apr 21 16:25:37 sigh, at work :) Apr 21 16:43:14 i'm at work too......boring day Apr 21 16:49:29 i wish i could remember the name of this dude i met on saturday night Apr 21 16:49:36 apparently his friend works on the android team ;) Apr 21 16:50:44 the name of the guy who works on Android would be more helpful :p Apr 21 16:51:27 i bet his friend is really cool Apr 21 16:53:39 romainguy_: well, i'd ask him ;) Apr 21 16:54:20 he works at nordstrom corporate or something, so i could guess his e-mail if i could remember his name Apr 21 16:54:38 i had like 8 beers so it is all very fuzzy :) Apr 21 17:00:05 * jasta ponders if DBus would be appropriate for my server component Apr 21 17:00:46 Hows the new phase in development coming along? Apr 21 17:00:57 so that the server can startup with the machine, but attach a UI component into the freedesktop tray when the user logs in. Apr 21 17:01:11 man, I simply can't drink that much beer Apr 21 17:01:31 davidw: 8 isn't really a lot. Apr 21 17:01:39 it's drunk, for sure, but not otherwise a lot Apr 21 17:02:02 it's not the alcohol content, it's the feeling like I'm going to swell up and grow a pair of lederhosen Apr 21 17:02:08 especially if they're light beers (which they weren't, but still) Apr 21 17:02:45 i've drank 20 coronas before, but that's just because it's like drinking water. Apr 21 17:03:32 in any given day, i consume probably 2-3 litres of water. Apr 21 17:03:45 so i don't hav ea volume problem ;) Apr 21 17:05:17 * jasta brings his 32oz (1litre) nalgene to work every day :) Apr 21 17:05:43 So do i Apr 21 17:05:52 thats what i drink for lunch Apr 21 17:07:33 i like to make iced tea a lot too Apr 21 17:07:42 delicious ;) Apr 21 17:07:52 im good with water and cran-apple juice Apr 21 17:08:03 iced tea all the way Apr 21 17:08:12 i like the fake sugar stuff. it probably causes cancer, but it's so good :) Apr 21 17:08:17 What?! Apr 21 17:08:19 crystal light or whatever it is. Apr 21 17:08:20 that stuff is gross Apr 21 17:08:25 Smart and Low Apr 21 17:08:29 or Apr 21 17:08:31 the peach iced tea is great. Apr 21 17:08:32 Sweet and Low Apr 21 17:08:32 sorry Apr 21 17:08:45 i don't think they use sweet and low in particular Apr 21 17:08:50 aspartame Apr 21 17:08:52 at least, they aren't using a branded fake sugar Apr 21 17:09:14 meh, i think it's good :) Apr 21 17:09:27 Crystal light is basically diet kool aid Apr 21 17:09:32 but i usually just drink water in the winter. tea in the summer :) Apr 21 17:09:59 yeah, it's great :) Apr 21 17:10:03 i stay away from tea for the most part, because a lot of it has caffeine in it, and i cant drink that. Apr 21 17:10:11 why not? Apr 21 17:10:15 and everything else tastes like crap Apr 21 17:10:18 i have a heart condition Apr 21 17:10:38 it acts up when i drink caffeine Apr 21 17:10:43 that's unfortunate Apr 21 17:10:46 i'm drinking coffee right now Apr 21 17:10:47 eh its ok Apr 21 17:10:49 lol Apr 21 17:10:58 im glad not having caffeine headaches anymore though Apr 21 17:11:00 those things suck Apr 21 17:11:20 i don't drink much coffee actually. a cup or two a month. Apr 21 17:11:39 i know people who drink like 3-4 cups a morning Apr 21 17:11:39 and without coffee, there's no other significant source of caffeine in my diet. iced tea has very little :) Apr 21 17:12:20 buy caffine tablets? Apr 21 17:12:35 thats a bit much for just waking up in the morning though Apr 21 17:12:50 inject yourself with some clenbuterol then? Apr 21 17:12:54 lol Apr 21 17:12:59 how about crystal meth? Apr 21 17:13:02 you can drink some bawls. Apr 21 17:13:06 i read in a national geographic article once that the way we consume caffeine is not generally efficient either, so it's effects are exaggerated quite a bit Apr 21 17:13:21 the most effective way, they say, is through small but regular doses all day long. that's why the military invented caffeine gum. Apr 21 17:13:44 thats cool Apr 21 17:13:49 i mean, the perceived effects are exaggerated. it just isn't doing as much as people think it is. Apr 21 17:14:05 yeah Apr 21 17:14:12 because it gets saturated or something so the absorption rate slows way down when you consume lots of it. Apr 21 17:14:37 that's the gist of it anyway :) Apr 21 17:15:39 they had some military test subjects stay up for 3 days straight eating a piece of this gum every 20 minutes and had them doing target practice and stuff like that Apr 21 17:15:55 were they good still? Apr 21 17:16:04 their accuracy dropped by 20% after the 3rd day, whereas those studied without the aide of the gum dropped 90%. Apr 21 17:16:17 incredible result, really Apr 21 17:16:48 wow Apr 21 17:17:06 how about those who drank a coke 15 minutes before they tested? Apr 21 17:17:15 a lot of computer nerds brag about staying up for 2 or 3 days straight, but my guess is that the military test subjects were forced to go through their daily routines so they must have been so unbelievably exhausted Apr 21 17:17:28 Dougie187: i don't know that they tested that. i don't recall. Apr 21 17:19:16 I recall seeing some substance that kept performance from degrading much at all Apr 21 17:19:47 IIRC, in the caffeine ones, it degrades a bit more than 20%... because it's not actually really helping your brain, but just keeping you from falling completely asleep Apr 21 17:23:55 new ubuntu comes out on thursday Apr 21 17:24:04 exciting Apr 21 17:24:09 yeah Apr 21 17:24:20 wow, cool Apr 21 17:24:21 i always get pumped when its going to come out soon Apr 21 17:24:35 I hope my wife's laptop will get something out of it Apr 21 17:24:39 heh Apr 21 17:24:40 the wireless driver sucks:-/ Apr 21 17:24:47 which card does she have? Apr 21 17:25:02 never buy a laptop that doesn't have the intel ipw chipset :) Apr 21 17:25:09 atheros works.. Apr 21 17:25:14 unless you like shooting yourself in the face Apr 21 17:25:15 and some ipw ones blow too Apr 21 17:25:20 lol Apr 21 17:25:32 i think ipw1900 or something sucks Apr 21 17:25:39 at least thats what a friend who has it tells me Apr 21 17:25:42 i have 2200 and its awesome Apr 21 17:27:08 * davidw is quite happy with his Dell... it was super cool to boot into ubuntu out of the box and have things work Apr 21 17:27:25 i've used both ipw2200 and ipw3945 Apr 21 17:27:43 i have a lenovo 3000 n200 and it also booted ubuntu no problem Apr 21 17:28:08 in fact, it's been a while since i've really had to futz with anything to make linux install correctly Apr 21 17:29:32 Have any of you tried the n wifi one? Apr 21 17:29:35 intel Apr 21 17:29:39 no Apr 21 17:30:01 i wanna see if it would work in ubuntu very well Apr 21 17:30:09 bbl, gotta do work stuff Apr 21 17:30:20 k Apr 21 17:31:20 broadcom cards can sometimes be bitchy too Apr 21 17:32:17 i havent tried those. Apr 21 17:32:51 I've got a dell that came with a 1395 broadcom and so far only ndiswrapper worked well Apr 21 17:34:01 was ndiswrapper a pain to get to work? Apr 21 17:34:14 yeah, and that kind of sucks because you're still stuck with some proprietary driver Apr 21 17:34:24 i have an ibm thinkpad t30 and fedora works well, just having a pain with WPA networks Apr 21 17:34:36 ubuntu doesn't like the graphics though :( Apr 21 17:34:37 nah ndis was easy Apr 21 17:34:53 which graphics? Apr 21 17:35:21 thinkpad t30.... i believe it uses some sort of ati Apr 21 17:35:52 i thought ubuntu supported most of them now. Apr 21 17:35:59 my ati on my desktop works great. Apr 21 17:36:07 though its an x700 or something like that Apr 21 17:38:07 i'm going to try it again.... the splash screen doesn't show up on boot up Apr 21 17:38:28 which version did you try? Apr 21 17:40:41 7.10 Apr 21 17:40:57 i just priced a dell vostro for 800 bucks that came with decent hardware Apr 21 17:41:09 i would love to dump the windows they force you to choose Apr 21 17:42:35 I want to get a lenovo r serise Apr 21 17:42:39 14.1 with nvidia Apr 21 17:42:54 its like 700 or something. Apr 21 17:43:02 with a 2.4 ghz 4 mb cache Apr 21 17:43:26 you can get a 15.4 for cheaper though Apr 21 17:43:27 i think Apr 21 17:44:02 of course, there is a 15% off coupon if you use paypal Apr 21 17:44:43 3mb cache sorry Apr 21 18:00:44 anyone have a vostro? Apr 21 18:00:55 no but i seem them all over the place on fatwallet Apr 21 18:01:04 are they clunky Apr 21 18:01:24 ionno Apr 21 18:02:21 i am still waiting patiently for the next sdk... Apr 21 18:07:20 i have a vostro Apr 21 18:07:41 it freezes every so often - i haven't had the time to figure it out yet Apr 21 18:07:53 i don't know if that's just a Vista "feature" Apr 21 18:09:06 you should try another os just to make sure Apr 21 18:12:24 http://blog.droidworks.com/2008/04/understanding-android-versus-iphone.html Apr 21 18:18:14 michaelnovakjr__: i have a vostro 200 at work and it does freeze on my occassionally as well Apr 21 18:18:29 not often, but it has happened twice in like 6 months Apr 21 18:19:36 is it clunky? Apr 21 18:19:56 in terms of how it looks? Apr 21 18:26:14 in size jasta Apr 21 18:34:09 jasta, is the vostro a thick laptop? Apr 21 18:34:32 dont they have specs online? Apr 21 18:34:41 its not too thick Apr 21 18:34:46 I have the vostro 1700 Apr 21 18:35:16 its about as think as my hp dv8000 was Apr 21 18:36:02 ahh Apr 21 18:36:12 i'm using windows again Apr 21 18:36:14 it's good to be back Apr 21 18:36:39 i got my PuTTY and i got my theme Apr 21 18:36:56 lol im always the other way around Apr 21 18:37:00 when i get to windows i hate it. Apr 21 18:37:06 then i get back to my laptop and im like yes... home again... Apr 21 18:37:18 i just need windows to print like a good citizen Apr 21 18:37:22 cups doesnt like to print a blue cover page Apr 21 18:37:34 thats odd Apr 21 18:37:47 cups interface is really shitty Apr 21 18:37:52 you can select "yes i want a cover page" Apr 21 18:37:57 but it doesnt allow you to select from which tray Apr 21 18:38:01 heh Apr 21 18:38:23 granted, it did take me 10 min to boot up XP Apr 21 18:38:27 fun, i don't really like windows.... Apr 21 18:38:36 michaelnovakjr__: oh, i didn't know the vostro was a laptop too Apr 21 18:38:39 i have the vostro desktop :) Apr 21 18:38:41 sorry Apr 21 18:39:53 yep vostro is laptop Apr 21 18:41:36 haha Apr 21 18:41:39 its all good Apr 21 18:42:02 i was looking at the 14 inch Apr 21 18:42:28 never heard of it, sounds like it's made from plastic. Apr 21 18:42:48 as long as it can run linux that's all that matters to me Apr 21 18:43:18 my requirements are slightly more stringent :) Apr 21 18:43:30 needs to be able to run outdoors in the sun for hours Apr 21 18:44:47 that should be you, not a computer Apr 21 18:49:37 jasta: where's your project hosted (URL)? Apr 21 18:50:35 http://code.google.com/p/android-five/ Apr 21 18:50:44 ah Apr 21 18:50:45 (thats jasta) Apr 21 18:50:46 stupid /p/ Apr 21 18:51:01 michael yes it runs linux very well Apr 21 18:51:07 runs every os I've thrown at it Apr 21 20:55:12 http://www.wmexperts.com/articles/load_up_android_on_your_tilt.html Apr 21 20:55:35 (sorry if this is 'old'). very interesting vid of linux/android booting up as a win ce app Apr 21 21:01:45 its not really booting as a wince app its using a loader app to kick start the process and unload wm in the process Apr 21 21:03:11 AstainHellbring: ah okay. thats better. no windows mobile mediating access to the hardware Apr 21 21:03:54 nope Apr 21 21:05:20 that would suggest android can run of a wider array of hardward than ive been lead to believe Apr 21 21:05:32 s/ward/ware Apr 21 21:09:40 win mobile sucks Apr 21 21:09:50 i charge my win mobile phone 3 times a day! Apr 21 21:10:22 lame Apr 21 21:10:26 someone hit my car at lunch Apr 21 21:10:54 dude that sucks Apr 21 21:11:24 donomo: Once source is available, Android can run on any hardware for which Linux drivers exist. Since Linux drivers can be written by anyone, the set of available, stable drivers could expand very rapidly once Android is released into the wild. Apr 21 21:11:48 Not to mention if you look at the members of the OHA there are some heavy weight chip makers throwing their hats in and we can expect quality Linux drivers from them as well Apr 21 21:12:11 jasta: yea for open source. Apr 21 21:12:18 michaelnovakjr_1: yeah, i was turning and they ran a red light, T-boning me Apr 21 21:12:24 but it was more like an L bone because they braked so hard Apr 21 21:12:28 but it way messed up my trunk Apr 21 21:12:57 damn... that definitely sounds like a bad day Apr 21 21:12:58 donomo: That said, I can't help but get annoyed by the lazy attitude some folks take toward what open source is capable of. Apr 21 21:13:28 later guys Apr 21 21:13:32 That is, "Somebody else should do it because I'm too stupid/lazy/etc." Apr 21 21:17:49 jasta, well... it's kind of like chicken Apr 21 21:18:06 maybe someone else will spend a week working 'for free' Apr 21 21:18:19 jasta: well i dont expect the average phone enthusiast to be able to even take a crack at compiling the kernel for a CPU that hasnt run it before Apr 21 21:18:45 i suppose every CPU has run linux at some point :) Apr 21 21:19:05 jasta: It may sound strange, but people do Open Source mainly because they gain something from that themselves. Apr 21 21:19:28 donomo: Hmm... Z80? Apr 21 21:19:44 open source is so interesting, what i solve for myself, i solve for the whole world. its downright mystical/religious. Apr 21 21:20:22 mihoshi: hmm. yeah i dont think linux runs on the Arduino / 8 bit procs Apr 21 21:22:04 jasta: And that's not necessary something monetary. They can do it because it's fun, helps them gain and keep their skills, have rest from idiocy of programming they do at work etc. :) Apr 21 21:23:05 I'm just saying, it's a healthier attitude to assume nothing and be pleasantly surprised when someone does your work for you :) Apr 21 21:23:30 You can't count on open source to do anything. Even if it's the most obvious thing that users want. Apr 21 21:23:49 You can only let it jerk you around where it wants and guide it to the degree your ability permits. Apr 21 21:24:12 you can bitch about it on irc, with almost no effort. Apr 21 21:24:48 Yeah, but to no effect either. Apr 21 21:25:05 I think that can be sontributive in a way. Apr 21 21:25:08 I've been involved in this community for a very long time. There are a lot of annoying, ugly people trolling around it. Apr 21 21:25:10 *contributive Apr 21 21:25:10 yeah. there ought to be a way to do one-line code changes via irc Apr 21 21:25:35 jasta: Which community? OS in general? Apr 21 21:25:38 yes Apr 21 21:25:57 The best way to make positive change is to just do it yourself. That's usually what whips up the community to get things done. Apr 21 21:26:01 OS is overloaded. Open Source, Operating System. I never liked the title of oreilly's OSCON Apr 21 21:26:34