**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Apr 24 02:59:56 2008
Apr 24 05:00:37 <jasta> you've gotta be kidding me
Apr 24 05:01:21 <f00f-> heh
Apr 24 05:01:46 <jasta> taglib opens the file in write mode always, so i enter an infinte loop trying to process files because my hook is to check for changes on IN_CLOSE_WRITE
Apr 24 05:02:00 <jasta> llllaaaammmeee
Apr 24 05:07:17 <f00f-> sux!
Apr 24 05:16:37 <jasta> my only options seem to be patch taglib or check for IN_MODIFY and flag that for IN_CLOSR_WRITE
Apr 24 05:16:43 <jasta> which would be very inefficient :\
Apr 24 05:21:06 <f00f-> hm
Apr 24 05:21:23 <f00f-> i am thinking of using a workflow-enabled CMS
Apr 24 05:21:35 <f00f-> i have my own XML/XSL system but it's not advanced
Apr 24 05:21:42 <f00f-> i'm thinking of evaluating Bricolage
Apr 24 05:21:51 <f00f-> looks nice, web server agnostic so it seems
Apr 24 05:22:02 <muthu> which platform?
Apr 24 05:22:03 <f00f-> i like automatic static content generation
Apr 24 05:22:14 <f00f-> well linux will be the host, etc.
Apr 24 05:22:28 <muthu> ok
Apr 24 05:22:46 <f00f-> since i need other people to be able to add content easily
Apr 24 05:22:55 <f00f-> news/press releases, pages, etc.
Apr 24 05:23:01 <f00f-> and be formatted correctly :)
Apr 24 05:23:14 <muthu> yeah formatting matters
Apr 24 05:23:32 <f00f-> i looked at Apache Lenya before
Apr 24 05:23:37 <f00f-> but it's pretty heavy
Apr 24 05:23:46 <muthu> hmm.. any php based?
Apr 24 05:23:54 <f00f-> not sure
Apr 24 05:24:00 <f00f-> i'm trying to stay away from dynamic ones
Apr 24 05:24:06 <muthu> oh ok
Apr 24 05:24:09 <f00f-> people like Drupal a lot
Apr 24 05:24:11 <f00f-> which is php
Apr 24 05:24:14 <muthu> right
Apr 24 05:25:57 <f00f-> oh wow
Apr 24 05:26:04 <f00f-> About.com created Bricolage!
Apr 24 05:26:10 <f00f-> and they know a thing or two about CMS :)
Apr 24 05:29:06 <f00f-> ah damn
Apr 24 05:29:12 <jjt009> hmm
Apr 24 05:29:13 <f00f-> only supports postgresql
Apr 24 05:29:13 <jjt009> ?
Apr 24 05:29:18 <f00f-> and they claim it doesnt run on apache2? wtf?
Apr 24 05:29:57 <f00f-> just great
Apr 24 05:30:01 <f00f-> this whole thing is written for mod_perl
Apr 24 05:30:13 <f00f-> see
Apr 24 05:30:17 <jasta> porting from mod_perl to mod_perl2 isn't that hard
Apr 24 05:30:22 <jasta> i wonder why they wouldn't have done it?
Apr 24 05:30:27 <f00f-> a great product otherwise, except these little things make it unpopular
Apr 24 05:30:32 <jasta> it's barely any effort at all.  changing a fe wnames here and there.
Apr 24 05:30:58 <f00f-> last release was march 14th, so project isn't dead at least
Apr 24 05:32:32 <f00f-> jasta: perhaps they have support in apache2 :)
Apr 24 05:32:41 <f00f-> they probably neglected to update the website
Apr 24 05:34:29 <jasta> it's some effort, but not much.  not that much semantics changed, really.  mostly just straight forward improvements too.
Apr 24 05:35:05 <f00f-> i'm really bummed at no mysql support though :/
Apr 24 05:35:51 <f00f-> but seeing as it's only a content management (and not delivery) system, i can see setting up pgsql just for this
Apr 24 05:36:16 <f00f-> since it won't be a dealbreaker if it goes down...
Apr 24 05:36:20 <muthu> pgsql should be fine
Apr 24 05:36:22 <f00f-> all stuff is persisted to the fs and any changes
Apr 24 05:40:31 <f00f-> rofl
Apr 24 05:40:43 <f00f-> their quickstart installation for the impatient is 600 lines of text long
Apr 24 05:41:06 <muthu> hmm.. then must he really good
Apr 24 05:41:13 <muthu> *be
Apr 24 05:42:16 <f00f-> downloading the vmware image to evaluate it
Apr 24 05:42:18 <duey> that guy complaining about iphone sdk annoys me
Apr 24 05:42:22 <f00f-> dont want to waste my time for now
Apr 24 05:42:24 <duey> talk about lazy
Apr 24 05:42:54 <muthu> who?
Apr 24 05:43:01 <duey> you rpelied to it
Apr 24 05:44:03 <muthu> oh yeah
Apr 24 05:44:26 <muthu> he has a nice app - pocketjourney
Apr 24 05:44:49 <raidfive> looks like judges have started messing with my app :)
Apr 24 05:45:00 <duey> raidfive, it could be just the testers
Apr 24 05:45:13 <raidfive> true
Apr 24 05:45:25 <muthu> I'm curious which of the Android applications you've peeked at you thought were the most interesting and also which ones you thought did the most to capture the promise of the operating system.
Apr 24 05:45:35 <muthu> any takers?
Apr 24 05:45:51 <duey> none
Apr 24 05:45:56 <muthu> hehe
Apr 24 05:45:58 <duey> :P
Apr 24 05:46:03 <duey> jastas is neat
Apr 24 05:46:09 <duey> i haven't really had a good look
Apr 24 05:46:11 <muthu> most interesting - enkin
Apr 24 05:46:11 <duey> been far tobusy
Apr 24 05:46:19 <f00f-> enkin definitely is up there
Apr 24 05:46:24 <f00f-> that impressed me th emost so far
Apr 24 05:46:26 <muthu> most promising - commandro
Apr 24 05:46:31 <f00f-> but they've been at it for years
Apr 24 05:46:36 <muthu> right
Apr 24 05:46:39 <duey> i liked calculator
Apr 24 05:47:01 <muthu> some real nice utils were submitted
Apr 24 05:47:45 <muthu> jasta: since you don't like enkin
Apr 24 05:47:53 <muthu> what's your most intersting and promising app?
Apr 24 05:50:28 <jasta> duey's, so far
Apr 24 05:51:14 <jasta> hehe, i wrote that before i read that he commented on mine actually :)
Apr 24 05:51:48 <duey> haha
Apr 24 05:52:06 <duey> enkin looks neat
Apr 24 05:52:10 <jasta> i also really liked this one i saw last week which was basically a way to organize a community around folks taking similar classes in college
Apr 24 05:52:11 <duey> might of been over done though
Apr 24 05:52:44 <jasta> but i can't remember all of what it did or anything hehe
Apr 24 05:53:08 <jasta> muthu: i'm just concentrating on practical things that i think people will find a use for.  that aren't just new for the sake of being new.
Apr 24 05:59:13 <muthu> yup, the college apps were neat
Apr 24 06:01:29 <pandora--> hey hey guys
Apr 24 06:02:55 <muthu> pandora--: mornin
Apr 24 06:28:23 <muthu> http://www.parallelkingdom.com/
Apr 24 06:28:29 <muthu> that is going to be HUGE
Apr 24 06:34:07 <muthu> wow enkin!
Apr 24 06:34:38 <muthu> love those guys
Apr 24 06:57:11 <pandora--> muthu: I love the idea with that
Apr 24 06:57:26 <muthu> oh yes
Apr 24 06:58:02 <muthu> and the kind of work they have done is amazing - hardware + software
Apr 24 07:05:45 <f00f-> ok so bricolage might be too advanced for what i need
Apr 24 07:05:46 <f00f-> :/
Apr 24 07:09:39 <muthu> what about the about.com thingy
Apr 24 08:53:04 <davidw> sheez is ant ugly
Apr 24 08:53:19 <muthu> butt ugly!
Apr 24 11:03:35 <muthu> Kraln: hey buddy
Apr 24 11:36:57 <Hai-Fai> any news according to andy phone?
Apr 24 12:45:45 <papick> hi
Apr 24 12:45:48 <papick> anyone here?
Apr 24 12:45:55 <muthu> papick: hi
Apr 24 12:46:05 <papick> hi
Apr 24 12:46:11 <papick> running android first time on myc
Apr 24 12:46:12 <papick> mac
Apr 24 12:46:35 <muthu> what's the problem?
Apr 24 12:46:43 <papick> I am not getting adb shell to understand my statements
Apr 24 12:46:46 <papick> I get the shell
Apr 24 12:46:51 <papick> I type in the command
Apr 24 12:46:57 <papick> nothing happens
Apr 24 12:47:05 <papick> .help
Apr 24 12:47:07 <papick> .help;
Apr 24 12:47:09 <papick> nothing
Apr 24 12:47:18 <Hai-Fai> adb shell = linux terminal
Apr 24 12:47:23 <Hai-Fai> nothing more
Apr 24 12:47:41 <ligi> papick: e.g. type ls
Apr 24 12:47:44 <muthu> adb shell help is in the sdk docs
Apr 24 12:48:02 <ligi> muthu: but not .help - or am i wrong
Apr 24 12:48:09 <ligi> muthu: hi btw ;-)
Apr 24 12:48:17 <Dougie187> Good Morning everyone
Apr 24 12:48:23 <muthu> ligi: hi
Apr 24 12:48:26 <papick> I am trying adb shell sqlite3 ...
Apr 24 12:48:36 <ligi> Dougie187: good evening
Apr 24 12:48:39 <muthu> Dougie187:  good evening
Apr 24 12:48:42 <papick> goog afternoon
Apr 24 12:48:45 <papick> good
Apr 24 12:48:52 <Dougie187> Heh
Apr 24 12:48:58 <papick> I want to set proxy settings into the db
Apr 24 12:49:01 <Dougie187> How is everyone doing so far?
Apr 24 12:49:16 <muthu> we were being quiet
Apr 24 12:49:41 <Dougie187> eh it happens.
Apr 24 12:49:52 <papick> http://openhandsetmagazine.com/2007/11/tips-howto-connect-android-emulator-behind-proxy/
Apr 24 12:49:52 <ligi> papick: when params then escape via " "
Apr 24 12:49:52 <muthu> after phase1 its been quiet
Apr 24 12:49:58 <papick> thats what I am trying
Apr 24 12:49:58 <Dougie187> the new ubuntu is supposed to come out today.
Apr 24 12:50:08 <muthu> what version?
Apr 24 12:50:22 <Dougie187> 8.04
Apr 24 12:50:28 <Dougie187> Hardy
Apr 24 12:50:45 <muthu> is it worth to upgrade?
Apr 24 12:51:01 <Dougie187> im not sure yet.
Apr 24 12:51:06 <Dougie187> ill let you know after i upgrade
Apr 24 12:51:14 <muthu> thx
Apr 24 12:51:23 <muthu> no hurry
Apr 24 12:51:24 <papick> ligi: what params?
Apr 24 12:51:29 <muthu> since i'm using FC8 :-)
Apr 24 12:51:34 <ligi> papick:  sqlite3 ...
Apr 24 12:51:41 <ligi> papick: the ... part
Apr 24 12:51:52 <papick> ligi: I did, nothing happens either
Apr 24 12:52:02 <Dougie187> heh
Apr 24 12:52:04 <papick> the shell starts
Apr 24 12:52:08 <Dougie187> FC8 isnt bad at all.
Apr 24 12:52:12 <muthu> papick:  give it the db name
Apr 24 12:52:13 <papick> I can type .help, as suggested
Apr 24 12:52:17 <Dougie187> i have some of those at work and they are good
Apr 24 12:52:19 <muthu> FC8 is fine
Apr 24 12:52:22 <Dougie187> way better then FC5
Apr 24 12:52:25 <Dougie187> or FC4
Apr 24 12:52:28 <muthu> not sure how it compares with Ubuntu
Apr 24 12:52:36 <Dougie187> me either anymore.
Apr 24 12:52:38 <muthu> it was so close for me
Apr 24 12:52:42 <papick> adb shell "sqlite3" "/data/data/com.google.android.providers.settings/databases/settings.db"
Apr 24 12:52:46 <papick> this wors
Apr 24 12:52:48 <muthu> 2 yrs back eval'd FC6 and Ubuntu
Apr 24 12:52:49 <papick> works
Apr 24 12:52:51 <Dougie187> but i have used ubuntu since FC4 or FC5 because FC didnt have wifi
Apr 24 12:52:53 <papick> I get the shell
Apr 24 12:53:22 <muthu> Dougie187: right, am not using wifi
Apr 24 12:53:32 <Dougie187> yeah
Apr 24 12:53:35 <muthu> may be that's why i'm not bothered
Apr 24 12:53:37 <Dougie187> that was the hitch for me
Apr 24 12:53:37 <Dougie187> oh
Apr 24 12:53:42 <Dougie187> any my wacom stuff
Apr 24 12:53:44 <papick> but any sql statement I enter, any command, it carriage returns but nothing more
Apr 24 12:53:51 <Dougie187> i have a tablet and it worked out of the box in ubuntu
Apr 24 12:54:01 <muthu> yeah i heard that
Apr 24 12:54:21 <muthu> ubuntu just works - like windows
Apr 24 12:54:39 <muthu> FC might need some tweaking for hardware
Apr 24 12:54:57 <Dougie187> yeah
Apr 24 13:01:14 <Hai-Fai> [15:54:21 ] < muthu>ubuntu just works - like windows <-- I'm not sure to cry or what.. when Windows did start to work?
Apr 24 13:01:26 <muthu> lol
Apr 24 13:01:41 <muthu> i mean plug n play
Apr 24 13:01:47 <Hai-Fai> plug n pray
Apr 24 13:01:52 <muthu> haha
Apr 24 13:01:56 <Dougie187> ubuntu is out now.
Apr 24 13:02:05 <muthu> breaking!!
Apr 24 13:02:18 <Hai-Fai> I didn't like their way to create stuff, tried in on version 5.04 or similiar
Apr 24 13:02:52 <muthu> majority are using either ubuntu or FC
Apr 24 13:03:00 <Hai-Fai> I've been using debian since 3.0 as my primary os, windows is on dualboot but I just boot to update it once a month or so :)
Apr 24 13:03:16 <muthu> ah, couldn't resist updating windows huh
Apr 24 13:03:33 <Hai-Fai> hah
Apr 24 13:03:52 <Hai-Fai> just have to see if something great appears, but nothing so far =)
Apr 24 13:04:10 <Hai-Fai> might be sp3 helps something out, but dunnoh if it's so
Apr 24 13:04:48 <muthu> you on vista?
Apr 24 13:06:54 <Hai-Fai> me?
Apr 24 13:07:13 <muthu> yes
Apr 24 13:07:19 <Hai-Fai> meaning? have I tried it or am I using it?
Apr 24 13:07:29 <muthu> your windows?
Apr 24 13:07:37 <Hai-Fai> xp (sp3 on next week)
Apr 24 13:07:37 <muthu> is it xp or vista?
Apr 24 13:07:40 <muthu> ok
Apr 24 13:07:57 <Hai-Fai> but like I told, once a month only for updating virusdatabase etc. =)
Apr 24 13:08:22 <muthu> got it
Apr 24 13:09:01 <Hai-Fai> nice ;)
Apr 24 13:09:17 <Hai-Fai> running any new projects on andy?
Apr 24 13:20:45 * Lede tried
Apr 24 13:21:05 <Lede> but ill just wait for the results to come in
Apr 24 13:21:44 <Lede> so i can either continue that what i started or start something else
Apr 24 13:23:04 <muthu> Lede: what's the other option?
Apr 24 13:24:15 <Hai-Fai> to start a new project and have a GREAT software @ autumn =)
Apr 24 13:25:45 <Lede> muthu: rob a bank
Apr 24 13:25:57 <muthu> Android does that? ;)
Apr 24 13:26:02 <Lede> it will!
Apr 24 13:26:03 <Hai-Fai> possibly
Apr 24 13:26:23 <Hai-Fai> have to find out some rfid examples =P
Apr 24 13:28:11 <muthu> if someone submitted that how would the judges react?
Apr 24 13:28:22 <muthu> hehe
Apr 24 13:28:32 <Dougie187> lol they would use it
Apr 24 13:28:36 <muthu> lol
Apr 24 13:28:38 <Dougie187> and then disqualify the submitter
Apr 24 13:28:39 <muthu> exactly!
Apr 24 13:28:54 <muthu> judges are missing..
Apr 24 13:29:13 <Dougie187> do you guys find out who the judges are?
Apr 24 13:29:22 <muthu> no
Apr 24 13:29:32 <muthu> its classified
Apr 24 13:29:37 <Dougie187> bust
Apr 24 13:33:02 <Lede> i bet they look like the judges in final fantasy xii
Apr 24 13:33:14 <Dougie187> lol
Apr 24 13:34:58 <muthu> Apple ships 2.29 million Macs; Enterprises eye iPhone - http://blogs.zdnet.com/BTL/?p=8592&tag=nl.e539
Apr 24 13:35:41 <Lede> yeah i read that
Apr 24 13:36:06 <Lede> what i wonder is what caused this
Apr 24 13:36:19 <muthu> marketing
Apr 24 13:36:27 <Lede> or vista?
Apr 24 13:36:34 <muthu> hehe
Apr 24 13:36:40 <muthu> yeah its vista
Apr 24 13:47:12 <muthu> 1. Enkin
Apr 24 13:47:16 <muthu> 2. Commandro
Apr 24 13:47:21 <muthu> 3. ParallelKingdom
Apr 24 13:47:37 <ligi> muthu: are teh winners out now?
Apr 24 13:47:49 <muthu> ligi: they're my top 3
Apr 24 13:49:01 <Lede> i saw this really fake and not fun game once
Apr 24 13:49:05 <Lede> i forgot the name
Apr 24 13:49:23 <Lede> it was like this first person shooter with your camera or something
Apr 24 13:49:54 <Lede> everything else i have seen was pretty good
Apr 24 13:53:16 <muthu> wifiarmy?
Apr 24 13:54:24 <Lede> yeah that one
Apr 24 14:26:39 <muthu> any news on the SDK release?
Apr 24 14:27:57 <muthu> morrildl: Apr 25 is a nice date.. if you are waiting for good times to release ;)
Apr 24 14:34:50 <muthu> morrildl: when's the next SDK coming?
Apr 24 14:34:53 <Dougie187> lol
Apr 24 14:34:59 <Dougie187> someones a bit impatient
Apr 24 14:35:12 <michaelnovakjr__> i am too
Apr 24 14:35:30 <muthu> that would freshen up the droids
Apr 24 14:35:51 <muthu> couldn't believe the google folks are waiting on it
Apr 24 14:36:24 <muthu> YO MO JO
Apr 24 14:39:05 <muthu> Here's 10 tips for Android developers to become productive - http://www.helloandroid.com/node/519
Apr 24 14:42:18 <edcba> muthu: what if you don't have svn :)
Apr 24 14:42:29 <muthu> then cvs it ;)
Apr 24 14:43:01 <muthu> if you really don't have version control, hope you are using linux!
Apr 24 14:43:44 <muthu> and hope you never use 'rm -rf *' !!
Apr 24 14:43:59 <edcba> no just rm -rf /*
Apr 24 14:44:02 <edcba> more efficient
Apr 24 14:44:08 <muthu> lol
Apr 24 14:44:13 <muthu> you are safe then
Apr 24 14:44:44 <muthu> edcba: at what point did you tell yourself enough is enough :)
Apr 24 14:44:49 <edcba> but i don't see how checking code into svn boosts your productivity
Apr 24 14:45:07 <muthu> it will over time
Apr 24 14:45:10 <davidw> edcba, by not having to rewrite your code when you screw up
Apr 24 14:45:21 <muthu> exactly
Apr 24 14:45:37 <edcba> i never screw up ;)
Apr 24 14:45:38 <davidw> or by not having to try and remember what the hell the code looked like last week when it actually worked, before you embarked on a big change that you now realize was wrong
Apr 24 14:46:03 <muthu> yes, developers cannot live without version control
Apr 24 14:46:11 <edcba> i always check in before doing major changes :)
Apr 24 14:46:23 <muthu> yeah we know
Apr 24 14:46:41 <muthu> edcba: at what point did you tell yourself enough is enough?
Apr 24 14:47:00 <muthu> this is a puzzle for you to solve
Apr 24 14:47:01 <edcba> enough of ?
Apr 24 14:47:05 <muthu> and answer me correctly
Apr 24 14:47:06 <edcba> hmm ok
Apr 24 14:47:10 <edcba> wait
Apr 24 14:47:38 <muthu> take your time.. tick tick tick....
Apr 24 14:48:16 <edcba> i think i already read that puzzle but don't remember :/
Apr 24 14:48:42 <muthu> its only for you
Apr 24 14:49:05 <muthu> only you know the answer
Apr 24 14:49:52 <edcba> no i don't see
Apr 24 14:50:12 <muthu> its about your nick
Apr 24 14:50:14 <muthu> haha
Apr 24 14:50:38 <edcba> yes i supposed that but F point doesn't seems a good awnser to me
Apr 24 14:50:39 <muthu> you could've gone the distance
Apr 24 14:50:45 <muthu> lol
Apr 24 14:51:23 <edcba> in fact
Apr 24 14:51:38 <edcba> when the symmetry broke
Apr 24 14:52:06 <muthu> wow
Apr 24 14:52:11 <muthu> i can see that..
Apr 24 14:52:26 <muthu> you are a genius!
Apr 24 14:52:46 <edcba> i originally planned abcde but it has been taken then thinking a bit more i took edcba since i like reversing
Apr 24 14:53:15 <muthu> this is a good lesson to learn
Apr 24 14:53:21 <edcba> futhermore abcde & edcba are not well indexed by search engines
Apr 24 14:53:44 <muthu> so you can stay anon
Apr 24 14:54:03 <edcba> so it was really a thought nickname
Apr 24 14:54:22 <muthu> no kidding
Apr 24 15:10:49 <Kraln> muthu: hi.
Apr 24 15:10:58 <muthu> hi
Apr 24 15:11:32 <muthu> i think you gave more disk space.. thx
Apr 24 15:19:21 <jasta> my nick came from that i used to drink a lot of josta cola when i was 12
Apr 24 15:19:50 <muthu> how many?
Apr 24 15:20:53 <jasta> what?
Apr 24 15:21:10 <Lede> over 9000
Apr 24 15:22:46 <muthu> kola?
Apr 24 15:25:30 <jasta> what are you talking about?
Apr 24 15:26:37 <Dougie187> how many colas did you drink?
Apr 24 15:26:48 <Dougie187> i believe is the question he was asking
Apr 24 15:27:02 <muthu> correct.
Apr 24 15:30:03 <jasta> i dont drink soda anymore
Apr 24 15:30:17 <Dougie187> back when you were 12
Apr 24 15:30:21 <Dougie187> and you got the nickname.
Apr 24 15:30:28 <Dougie187> thus continuing your discussion above.
Apr 24 15:30:32 <Dougie187> about how you drank a lot of soda
Apr 24 15:30:33 <muthu> lol
Apr 24 15:30:44 <muthu> jasta needs an interpreter
Apr 24 15:30:52 <Dougie187> yes
Apr 24 15:30:54 <Dougie187> lol
Apr 24 15:31:14 <Dougie187> hes use to python
Apr 24 15:31:16 <Dougie187> and ruby
Apr 24 15:31:26 <muthu> haha
Apr 24 15:31:34 <muthu> perl
Apr 24 15:31:35 <muthu> lol
Apr 24 15:31:50 <Kraln> or erlang.
Apr 24 15:32:02 <Dougie187> heh
Apr 24 15:33:23 <poffy> Erlang <3
Apr 24 15:52:14 * mihoshi needs interpreter too...
Apr 24 15:58:37 <jasta> well how the hell can I answer the question you intended to ask?
Apr 24 15:58:39 <jasta> it makes no sense
Apr 24 16:02:28 <Dougie187> lol... what?
Apr 24 16:02:56 <Dougie187> how does it not make sense?
Apr 24 16:08:36 <vol> Here's a question. I use setContentView(int) to inflate my main view, then later I use setContentView(view) to set a custom view (A ListView). I want to, when selecting an item in the listview, to return to the original view without going through the trouble of inflating it again. Is there a way to get a reference to the current view to store it for later?
Apr 24 16:09:09 <vol> inflating it, setting member references + listeners, etc.
Apr 24 16:09:45 <vol> The android tutorial launches a seperate activity just to do this, but frankly this feels rather heavyweight for what is a simple dialog.
Apr 24 16:11:41 <romainguy> there are advantages to launch a sub activity
Apr 24 16:11:54 <romainguy> for instance, the user is able to press back to return to the previous screen
Apr 24 16:12:05 <vol> I suppose this is true.
Apr 24 16:12:36 <vol> though this is something I've been looking at for a while in any event
Apr 24 16:12:36 <romainguy> and the only way to get a reference to the view you set with setcontentview is to use findViewById
Apr 24 16:12:45 <vol> ah, good idea.
Apr 24 16:12:45 <romainguy> tis means your inflated view must have an id though
Apr 24 16:12:51 <vol> hadn't thought of that
Apr 24 16:13:09 <vol> thanks!
Apr 24 16:13:09 <romainguy> but you should just use a subactivity
Apr 24 16:13:18 <vol> ok, I think I will.
Apr 24 16:13:28 <vol> it should make my code a little cleaner too
Apr 24 16:19:05 <jasta> morning romain
Apr 24 16:19:12 <romainguy> hi
Apr 24 16:19:49 <jasta> i wrote a little tool for Windows Mobile that uses my real media server to test realistic performance of the system on actual hardware
Apr 24 16:20:10 <jasta> hehe, works even better than i expected :)
Apr 24 16:20:48 <jasta> it looks like the buffer time is about 2-3 seconds on my 3G windows mobile phone :)
Apr 24 16:21:56 <Kraln> that's usable
Apr 24 16:22:11 <Dougie187> sounds pretty sweet
Apr 24 16:22:21 <romainguy> you just need to test how long the phone can stay up while doing this :p
Apr 24 16:22:30 <jasta> romainguy: hehe, yes, yes ;)
Apr 24 16:22:56 <jasta> i'm hoping that for most users, the common case after much usage will be to load media from the storage card
Apr 24 16:23:01 <jasta> so the battery drain wouldn't be too insane
Apr 24 16:23:14 <Kraln> decoding video or audio is a pretty big drain
Apr 24 16:23:28 <Kraln> regardless of storage
Apr 24 16:23:38 <jasta> yes, but the wireless radio is a bigger drain
Apr 24 16:24:14 <Kraln> cpu pegged at 100% strikes me as a larger drain than the transmitter
Apr 24 16:25:04 <jasta> in my tests with the emulator, simply decoding music has used between 20-30% cpu inside the emulator.
Apr 24 16:25:28 <jasta> simply downloading content and storing it to the card currently uses 100% cpu, though that strikes me as a problem with the emulator.
Apr 24 16:31:39 <jasta> Kraln: i mean, the iPhone claims something really high like 24 hours of audio playback
Apr 24 16:31:42 <jasta> with a talk time of 8 hours
Apr 24 16:31:51 <jasta> which tells me decoding audio is very light on the hardware indeed
Apr 24 16:31:55 <Kraln> that's because the iphone mp3 player has two arm chips dedicated to decoding mp3.
Apr 24 16:32:00 <jasta> especially compared to the gsm radio
Apr 24 16:32:03 <Kraln> and the mp3 decoder is written in assembly
Apr 24 16:32:09 <Kraln> and optimized for the two arm cores
Apr 24 16:32:25 <Kraln> what are you using to play the music for android? native calls - or?
Apr 24 16:32:32 <jasta> and does that seem unreasonable for android to do?
Apr 24 16:33:04 <jasta> i am using the MediaPlayer, of course, which is a native so on the Android stack.
Apr 24 16:33:07 <Kraln> jasta: not unreasonable, but android devices are 'phones first' which would lead me to believe they are mostly SoC solutions which would not have a separate coprocessor for audio decoding
Apr 24 16:33:11 <jasta> presumably written in C or C++
Apr 24 16:33:29 <Kraln> or, that most of them are
Apr 24 16:33:30 <jasta> what makes you think they're "phones first"?
Apr 24 16:34:04 <Kraln> what makes you think they're going to include hardware on every android based phone to lengthen battery time when decoding media?
Apr 24 16:34:13 <Dougie187> even if they are "phones first" though, that doesn't mean they it couldnt have a coprocessor.
Apr 24 16:34:22 <Dougie187> it might not be on all hardware.
Apr 24 16:34:27 <Dougie187> it could just be on some.
Apr 24 16:34:36 <Kraln> that's what I'm saying
Apr 24 16:34:49 <jasta> Kraln: if media playback is a desirable consumer feature to sell phones, then manufacturers, chipmakers, and developers are likely to respond to that.
Apr 24 16:34:50 <Kraln> (good) mp3 decoding is particularly expensive
Apr 24 16:35:09 <Kraln> I mean, you can do integer mp3 decoding, but it sounds off.
Apr 24 16:35:17 <Dougie187> It might not be on all phones. it might just be on the more expensive ones.
Apr 24 16:35:23 <Kraln> anyway, I have to run for a bit
Apr 24 16:35:27 <Kraln> I'll be back
Apr 24 16:35:31 <jasta> Dougie187: which would be perfectly fine, i'd think.
Apr 24 16:35:41 <jasta> consumers can appreciate that some phones will run certain programs better than others.
Apr 24 16:35:42 <Dougie187> yeah
Apr 24 16:35:44 <Dougie187> totally.
Apr 24 16:35:48 <jasta> especially since marketting forces them to understand that.
Apr 24 16:35:53 <Dougie187> not everyone is going to want to use your app anyways.
Apr 24 16:35:57 <jasta> one phone gets marketted as a media jukebox, the other doesn't.
Apr 24 16:36:13 <jasta> Dougie187: Exactly
Apr 24 16:36:28 <jasta> i think the market will show adequate support for my application, at any rate.
Apr 24 16:37:15 <Dougie187> yeah
Apr 24 16:37:25 <Dougie187> i mean everyone is not going to use every app that comes out of the GDC
Apr 24 16:37:48 <Dougie187> and some apps might require more expensive hardware to preform efficiently.
Apr 24 16:37:55 <michaelnovakjr__> ADC**
Apr 24 16:38:31 <jasta> also the nice thing about my app is that most people wouldn't really need to listen to music for such an extended duration that they'd drain a full battery.  my guess is that prolonged listening like on a long drive you'd just plug it into your car's battery.
Apr 24 16:38:41 <jasta> i mean, i have to do that with my iPod right now anyway
Apr 24 16:38:48 <Dougie187> sorry. ADC
Apr 24 16:39:28 <Dougie187> i hope someone has a teathering app
Apr 24 16:39:33 <Dougie187> or that its a built in feature.
Apr 24 16:39:50 <jasta> i suspect it will be a built in feature.  The Linux USB and networking stack would make this very easy
Apr 24 16:40:00 <Dougie187> that would be sweet.
Apr 24 16:40:25 <Dougie187> im probably going to wait to get a new phone until android is out, because i want to be able to teather to linux pretty easily.
Apr 24 16:40:32 <Dougie187> tether..
Apr 24 16:40:36 <Dougie187> again i keep misspelling it.
Apr 24 16:40:52 <jasta> i'm excited for all the end-user applications that will be coming with Android
Apr 24 16:41:04 <jasta> we might even finally get a decent desktop mobile tool for Linux :)
Apr 24 16:41:11 <Dougie187> yeah
Apr 24 16:41:16 <jasta> to explore the phone, install software, etc.
Apr 24 16:41:26 <jasta> right now i use freaking vmware with my windows mobile phone
Apr 24 16:41:45 <Dougie187> one thing i guess im not certain of. is lets say you have an android phone. and you decide there is a feature you want but are missing. then you should be able to write an app for it and put it on your phone right?
Apr 24 16:42:25 <jasta> yes, it's been explicitly stated that this will be possible.
Apr 24 16:42:29 <Dougie187> ok
Apr 24 16:42:31 <Dougie187> just making sure.
Apr 24 16:42:37 <jasta> and that any user can install any app they choose, regardless of carrier intervention, signing, etc.
Apr 24 16:42:46 <Dougie187> yeah. thats what i though
Apr 24 16:42:47 <Dougie187> thought
Apr 24 16:42:58 <jasta> which is very unlike any mainstream mobile platfor.
Apr 24 16:42:59 <jasta> platform*
Apr 24 16:43:12 <Dougie187> totally
Apr 24 16:43:40 <Dougie187> i was looking into get a bb pearl instead of waiting because those have tethering for linux.
Apr 24 16:43:47 <Dougie187> but im thinking ill wait
Apr 24 16:43:50 <jasta> to me it seems pretty clear that google's strategy is to transform the mobile industry into something a little more familiar to them.  specifically, transform it into the desktop PC and broadband markets.
Apr 24 16:43:52 <Dougie187> because id rather have android.
Apr 24 16:44:18 <yakischloba> I'm also waiting. This is everything I've been waiting for for years ;)
Apr 24 16:44:24 <Dougie187> heh
Apr 24 16:44:37 <Dougie187> I guess T-Mobile confirmed they will have an Android based phone out this year
Apr 24 16:44:54 <Dougie187> i just have to wait for a  sprint one now.
Apr 24 16:44:59 <jasta> i can't believe it's really right around the corner.  google must be cranking out code like we can't imagine
Apr 24 16:45:17 <Dougie187> yeah
Apr 24 16:45:22 <jasta> i am certain that what they've publicly released is barely a glimpse of what they've been up to
Apr 24 16:45:26 <Dougie187> When do they start judging the ADC?
Apr 24 16:45:32 <jasta> Dougie187: any day now
Apr 24 16:45:43 <yakischloba> Whats the latest on when phones are supposed to hit the market? Pretty soon right?
Apr 24 16:45:45 <Dougie187> do they let you know when they start? or just when they finish?
Apr 24 16:45:57 <jasta> morrildl claims the laptops have left his office destined to the judges as of like friday of last weeek
Apr 24 16:46:00 <jasta> week*
Apr 24 16:46:07 <jasta> yakischloba: end of '08, so not that soon
Apr 24 16:46:08 <Dougie187> the only time frame i have heard was september.
Apr 24 16:46:15 <Dougie187> september and december.
Apr 24 16:46:19 <Dougie187> but not till ADC is over.
Apr 24 16:46:22 <Dougie187> at least
Apr 24 16:46:32 <jasta> Dougie187: they won't let you know unless you win, and they will let everyone know on the same day.
Apr 24 16:46:44 <Dougie187> Oh, so they won't tell you if you loose?
Apr 24 16:46:49 <yakischloba> Gotcha. Well hopefully some carrier will start providing data services at a reasonable price between now and then.
Apr 24 16:46:49 <jasta> unlikely
Apr 24 16:46:55 <Dougie187> thats disappointing.
Apr 24 16:46:59 <Dougie187> i hate it when people do it.
Apr 24 16:47:08 <jasta> it will be obvious, don't you suppose?
Apr 24 16:47:08 <Dougie187> i think its more important to let them know then the people who did win
Apr 24 16:47:15 <Dougie187> sure if they hang out in here.
Apr 24 16:47:25 <jasta> if on may 5th the community is buzzing with folks who got e-mailed about their winnings and you didn't get an e-mail...
Apr 24 16:47:38 <Dougie187> but its like not calling someone who didnt get a job.
Apr 24 16:47:44 <michaelnovakjr__> your email probably isn't broken
Apr 24 16:47:55 <Dougie187> they are sitting by their phone.... waiting.. and they never hear
Apr 24 16:48:01 <jasta> Dougie187: it'll be obvious.
Apr 24 16:48:13 <jasta> if the day is over and you didn't get an e-mail, you can stop waiting, you didn't win :)
Apr 24 16:48:13 <Dougie187> yeah. as long as they come in here and talk to everyone else.
Apr 24 16:48:18 <Dougie187> heh
Apr 24 16:48:23 <jasta> Dougie187: all the online sites will be buzzing about i ttoo
Apr 24 16:48:29 <jasta> i bet it'll make it to digg, slashdot, etc.
Apr 24 16:48:32 <Dougie187> true. but i would expect them to send out emails to everyone.
Apr 24 16:48:42 <Dougie187> its not like it would be that hard.
Apr 24 16:48:57 <jasta> it's just not necessary
Apr 24 16:49:00 <michaelnovakjr__> they will post it on their blog
Apr 24 16:49:01 <jasta> not at all
Apr 24 16:49:16 <michaelnovakjr__> and send the winners a telegram
Apr 24 16:49:20 <jasta> Dougie187: remember, less than 3% of the submissions will win.
Apr 24 16:49:40 <Dougie187> true. but you wouldnt like an email stating that you didnt win, but your app was still really cool?
Apr 24 16:49:45 <Dougie187> and they thank you for entering and stuff?
Apr 24 16:49:54 <morrildl> Everyone will be notified whether they win or lose
Apr 24 16:49:54 <Dougie187> not that they havent already.
Apr 24 16:49:59 <Dougie187> Ok
Apr 24 16:50:00 <jasta> Dougie187: why would i?  it would just be boiler plate crap.
Apr 24 16:50:04 <jasta> they might have hated my app, i don't know
Apr 24 16:50:08 <michaelnovakjr__> haha jasta exactly
Apr 24 16:50:14 <morrildl> It's the least we can do, these are people who bothered to submit apps for our platform which isn't even released yet :)
Apr 24 16:50:24 <Dougie187> Awesome.
Apr 24 16:50:25 <michaelnovakjr__> that is like an insult.... 'hey you are cool but your app isn't!!
Apr 24 16:50:29 <Dougie187> Glad to hear it. heh
Apr 24 16:50:32 <jasta> morrildl: fair enough, but it will still be boiler plate crap, no? :)
Apr 24 16:50:50 <morrildl> jasta: I'm not promising anything, but we might do a mail merge. ;)
Apr 24 16:50:56 <jasta> it's not like you're going to give the winners anything useful.
Apr 24 16:50:59 <Dougie187> i would have been surprised if you didnt let the people who didnt win know too.
Apr 24 16:51:08 <michaelnovakjr__> i would prefer a new sdk over a sorry email :)
Apr 24 16:51:11 <jasta> err the losers*
Apr 24 16:51:17 <jasta> michaelnovakjr__: ditto :)
Apr 24 16:51:21 <Dougie187> lol
Apr 24 16:51:40 <jasta> "Sorry, you didn't win, but get to work on this new SDK you lame-o."
Apr 24 16:51:50 <michaelnovakjr__> haha
Apr 24 16:52:26 <jasta> what i'm wondering is if they will write up something particular for each of the winners
Apr 24 16:52:32 <Dougie187> are most of the projects done by one person?
Apr 24 16:52:34 <jasta> it would not be unreasonable to personally address each of the 50
Apr 24 16:52:49 <michaelnovakjr__> jasta, i agree
Apr 24 16:52:51 <jasta> Dougie187: impossible to tell.
Apr 24 16:52:56 <michaelnovakjr__> that would make it interesting
Apr 24 16:53:12 <Dougie187> what would you think they would say in those personal emails though?
Apr 24 16:53:20 <Hai-Fai> any ideas when new sdk will be out?
Apr 24 16:53:39 <Dougie187> heh
Apr 24 16:53:42 <Dougie187> i love hearing that question
Apr 24 16:53:47 <Dougie187> it gets asked all the time and never answered.
Apr 24 16:53:50 <michaelnovakjr__> Hai-Fai: the day its released :)
Apr 24 16:53:59 <jasta> Dougie187: now that i think about it it's obvious they won't personalize it.
Apr 24 16:54:08 <jasta> because you'd then be in competition with each other, so they couldn't give you ideas or suggestions
Apr 24 16:54:16 <Dougie187> I would think they wouldnt want to give anything to the winners,
Apr 24 16:54:19 <jasta> it could potentially give you an unfair edge to win the second round, or make them liable if you don't.
Apr 24 16:54:19 <Dougie187> just see what they can come up with
Apr 24 16:54:22 <Dougie187> yeah
Apr 24 16:54:45 <jasta> so you're right, all they should give you is $25K :)
Apr 24 16:54:50 <Dougie187> heh
Apr 24 16:54:51 <jasta> that's all the encouragement you should need hehe
Apr 24 16:54:58 <Dougie187> of course
Apr 24 16:55:14 <Dougie187> once you get that. you can stay up for days on your excitement writing code for the next round
Apr 24 16:55:16 <Hai-Fai> if they only gave you 25k then everyone with a working software should get it =)
Apr 24 16:55:27 <jasta> Dougie187: i've been writing code for the next round already :)
Apr 24 16:55:42 <Dougie187> yeah but its not really just for the next round. thats because you want your app even if you loose
Apr 24 16:55:44 <jasta> not that i'm assuming i won, i'm just assuming that the launch is still coming ;)
Apr 24 16:55:49 <Dougie187> yeah
Apr 24 16:55:56 <Dougie187> you want to be able to use your app no matter what
Apr 24 16:56:01 <Dougie187> im sure there are groups that are only in it for the money.
Apr 24 16:56:10 <Hai-Fai> I just want phones, no matter of anything else..
Apr 24 16:56:13 <Dougie187> and those groups probably wont write anything until they hear they won
Apr 24 16:56:33 <jasta> Dougie187: i doubt groups like that will win, honestly.
Apr 24 16:56:43 <Dougie187> I know.
Apr 24 16:56:48 <Dougie187> But it could happen.
Apr 24 16:56:51 <jasta> it's hard to be creative when all you've got is money on the brain
Apr 24 16:56:55 <Dougie187> and you know there are groups like that out there
Apr 24 16:57:29 <Dougie187> jasta: you use ubuntu right?
Apr 24 16:57:35 <jasta> Ubuntu and Debian, yeah
Apr 24 16:57:40 <Dougie187> you upgrade to hardy yet?
Apr 24 16:57:44 <jasta> no, not yet
Apr 24 16:57:54 <Dougie187> im getting the iso right now.
Apr 24 16:57:57 <Dougie187> its taking forever though
Apr 24 16:57:58 <jasta> so far it hasn't harrassed me about it yet :)
Apr 24 16:58:03 <Dougie187> he
Apr 24 16:58:03 <Dougie187> heh
Apr 24 16:58:07 <Dougie187> its asked me already
Apr 24 16:58:13 <jasta> i assume it will some time today
Apr 24 16:58:14 <Dougie187> but im just going to do a clean install
Apr 24 16:58:21 <jasta> why?  that's stupid ;)
Apr 24 16:58:23 <Dougie187> everyone on the forums says a lot has changed.
Apr 24 16:58:35 <Hai-Fai> that's no reason =P
Apr 24 16:58:45 <Dougie187> because i figure it cleans up my system. gets rid of crap that i dont use anymore and forgot about
Apr 24 16:58:53 <Hai-Fai> that's a reason =)
Apr 24 16:58:55 <jasta> if the release is worth a damn then their dist-upgrade script will work precisely as it should
Apr 24 16:59:09 <Dougie187> also its the end of a semester, so i need to get rid of my class files from this term.
Apr 24 16:59:16 <Dougie187> they are all backed up of course, but i dont want them on here anymore
Apr 24 16:59:30 <jasta> i can't stand reinstalling any operating system.  that's actually part of the reason i like linux distributions hehe
Apr 24 16:59:30 <Dougie187> heh last time dist-upgrade f'ed up my suspend
Apr 24 16:59:37 <Dougie187> I love reinstalling
Apr 24 16:59:42 <Dougie187> though i got use to it with windows
Apr 24 16:59:42 <Hai-Fai> I usually scratch up my debian system once a year at max just because all of those tests and unnecessary programs and crap I don't remember anymore where I used 'em
Apr 24 16:59:42 <Dougie187> lol
Apr 24 17:00:01 <Dougie187> i use to reinstall my windows once a year
Apr 24 17:00:06 <Dougie187> and damn was that a hassle...
Apr 24 17:00:06 <davidw> ew
Apr 24 17:00:14 <Hai-Fai> I used to format c: my windows =P
Apr 24 17:00:17 <Dougie187> i had to make a list of what programs were installed.
Apr 24 17:00:22 <davidw> reinstalling is bogus
Apr 24 17:00:31 <Dougie187> back up all the files.
Apr 24 17:00:35 <Dougie187> it took liked 4 hours.
Apr 24 17:00:41 <Dougie187> luckily ubuntu is a lot faster.
Apr 24 17:00:47 <Dougie187> only about an hour once i have the cd
Apr 24 17:00:48 <Hai-Fai> use symantec ghost or similiar, it's easier
Apr 24 17:01:02 <jasta> i think that is totally absurd to reinstall :)
Apr 24 17:01:12 <Hai-Fai> I made a backup .iso of my debian, reinstall takes 10minutes top with all necessary programs and shit
Apr 24 17:01:26 <Dougie187> yeah
Apr 24 17:01:28 <jasta> the only reason i still use Debian on my home computer is because I installed it 5 years ago and I have no reason to reinstall :)
Apr 24 17:01:30 <Dougie187> ghost is awesome.
Apr 24 17:01:31 <davidw> Debian was *designed* to be in-place upgradeable
Apr 24 17:01:44 <Dougie187> heh
Apr 24 17:01:45 <Hai-Fai> and it is
Apr 24 17:01:51 <davidw> jasta, and I bet that if you looked for cruft, you would find very little
Apr 24 17:02:02 <Hai-Fai> my server has been running few years without touching it
Apr 24 17:02:14 <jasta> yes, but that's probably because i know a _lot_ about Linux and Debian in particular ;)
Apr 24 17:02:35 <Dougie187> yeah ive only been using ubuntu for a few years.
Apr 24 17:02:38 <Dougie187> since dapper
Apr 24 17:02:44 <Hai-Fai> well that smell in the air is something familiar..
Apr 24 17:02:46 <Dougie187> 06 i think that was.
Apr 24 17:03:10 <Hai-Fai> I started with debian '00 about
Apr 24 17:03:29 <jasta> i bet in my entire tour using Linux on my home machines I've only installed it 4 times.
Apr 24 17:03:45 <jasta> and that's a decade of usage
Apr 24 17:03:53 <Hai-Fai> well, actually reinstalling has nothing to do with your knowledge
Apr 24 17:04:36 <jasta> RedHat first, used that until it imploded on its suckiness, installed Debian, reinstalled once when I got all new hardware (including HDD), then i've installed 1 server and have maintained it running Debian since installation.
Apr 24 17:05:37 <Dougie187> yeah i used red hat first too
Apr 24 17:05:42 <Dougie187> wifi took me 2 months to get set up
Apr 24 17:05:45 <Hai-Fai> =D
Apr 24 17:05:52 <Dougie187> then used ubuntu and it worked great with my wifi and wacom.
Apr 24 17:05:54 <Dougie187> used it since
Apr 24 17:05:57 * davidw has been a part of Debian since 1997
Apr 24 17:05:58 <Hai-Fai> it was times when desktop usage wasn't mainstream
Apr 24 17:06:20 <davidw> although I don't maintain any packages any more...
Apr 24 17:06:25 <jasta> i use Ubuntu at work, and generally recommend Ubuntu over Debian, but at home I have no problem with Debian whatsoever :)
Apr 24 17:06:30 <Hai-Fai> so, someone still does use windows right uh
Apr 24 17:06:45 <davidw> I use Ubuntu these days too
Apr 24 17:06:48 <Hai-Fai> I don't like ubuntu's ideology
Apr 24 17:06:51 <jasta> in fact i generally regard both Debian and Ubuntu maintainers as wise and correct disciples :
Apr 24 17:06:54 <davidw> I think they get some things right that Debian doesn't
Apr 24 17:06:57 <Hai-Fai> they just messed up lots of things I like in debian basically
Apr 24 17:07:13 <Dougie187> heh
Apr 24 17:07:31 <Hai-Fai> but hey, that's why ppl do have opinions =)
Apr 24 17:07:40 <Dougie187> i have never seen people use debian or ubuntu in a production environment before though.
Apr 24 17:07:49 <Hai-Fai> I use it daily =)
Apr 24 17:07:51 <Dougie187> both the school im in and the school i was in before used red hat.
Apr 24 17:07:55 <Dougie187> rhel and centos
Apr 24 17:08:08 <jasta> i use Debian on our servers at work.
Apr 24 17:08:25 <davidw> Dougie187, the last business I was at used Ubuntu for our servers, and for all desktops as well, even the people who answered the phones
Apr 24 17:08:27 <Hai-Fai> but that's something when we do see any linux at real work, like it seems nowdays
Apr 24 17:08:40 <muthu> is ubuntu good for servers?
Apr 24 17:08:44 <davidw> muthu, yeah
Apr 24 17:08:49 <Hai-Fai> somethings unfortenately just are way too difficult to do or even impossible with linux's
Apr 24 17:08:52 <Dougie187> i keep trying to get the people who maintain the systems here to change from centos to ubuntu.
Apr 24 17:09:04 <davidw> muthu, I like the fact that I can run the exact same code on my desktop that's on the server
Apr 24 17:09:09 <davidw> which makes testing stuff a breeze
Apr 24 17:09:16 <davidw> anyway, dinner time
Apr 24 17:09:20 <muthu> cool
Apr 24 17:09:21 <Hai-Fai> enjoy your meal
Apr 24 17:09:22 <Dougie187> have a good meal
Apr 24 17:10:45 <jasta> Dougie187: basically it boils down to whether or not you want to cater to your poorly chosen sysadmin or not :)
Apr 24 17:10:53 <Dougie187> heh
Apr 24 17:11:04 <michaelnovakjr__> i have a good sysadmin
Apr 24 17:11:06 <michaelnovakjr__> me!
Apr 24 17:11:07 <Dougie187> i like how all of the sysadmins here have ph.d.'s in physics.
Apr 24 17:11:15 <jasta> if you use RedHat, you can cater to him since it's the bare minimum he'll be expected to know.
Apr 24 17:11:39 <jasta> otherwise if he's actually worth a damn, you should be able to throw just about any UNIX variant at him and he can figure out how to make it work for you heeh
Apr 24 17:11:57 <michaelnovakjr__> that is the way it should be
Apr 24 17:12:10 <michaelnovakjr__> jasta, unfortunately there are a lot of dumb people in computers
Apr 24 17:12:11 <jasta> i, for example, haven't used RedHat since that brief time as a teenager.  i could probably walk into the RHCE test lab and pass with flying colors, however.
Apr 24 17:12:36 <Hai-Fai> I think this channel might change it's idealogy in near future to linux helpdesk =)
Apr 24 17:12:36 <muthu> are the other linux flavors, that much different?
Apr 24 17:12:58 <michaelnovakjr__> **kernel** **kernel**
Apr 24 17:13:11 <jasta> muthu: Not really.  The greatest differences between distros is inferiority :)
Apr 24 17:13:32 <Hai-Fai> muthu: on desktop usage minimally, some made few changes, but on server based things almost everythings similiar [except updating with package management system]
Apr 24 17:13:42 <muthu> right
Apr 24 17:14:02 <jasta> Basically the only difference is the ideology of the packaging community.
Apr 24 17:14:02 <muthu> googlers use mac though
Apr 24 17:14:09 <jasta> And in that case, Debian totally wins :0
Apr 24 17:14:17 <Hai-Fai> 2-0
Apr 24 17:14:20 <jasta> muthu: googlers, iirc, use whatever they want.
Apr 24 17:14:42 <Dougie187> my iso is finally done downloading
Apr 24 17:14:49 <Hai-Fai> enjoy your installation
Apr 24 17:14:53 <Hai-Fai> I'm off to shower
Apr 24 17:15:08 <muthu> jasta: mac pro is given to googlers
Apr 24 17:15:40 <jasta> muthu: i believe you are misinformed.  i am pretty confident they are offered a choice assuming that the choice makes since given their job function.
Apr 24 17:15:58 <muthu> they are given a mac
Apr 24 17:16:01 <muthu> and a thinkpad
Apr 24 17:16:04 <jasta> for example, i'm sure android engineers can work on whatever platform they choose.
Apr 24 17:16:07 <Dougie187> id take the thinkpad.
Apr 24 17:16:17 <michaelnovakjr__> most places are given a choice..... unless software ties you to a certain platform
Apr 24 17:16:19 <muthu> i don't know what the thinkpad runs though
Apr 24 17:16:27 <Dougie187> put what ever you want on it
Apr 24 17:16:35 <muthu> right
Apr 24 17:17:01 <muthu> one 30" monitor or two 24"
Apr 24 17:17:02 <jasta> muthu: right?  that disproves what you said :)
Apr 24 17:17:22 <jasta> you said "googlers use mac", but they don't exclusively use macs.
Apr 24 17:17:25 <muthu> jasta: they get both mac and thinkpad
Apr 24 17:17:31 <michaelnovakjr__> why not just have morrildl or romainguy confirm that muthu
Apr 24 17:17:38 <jasta> why on earth would they get both?
Apr 24 17:17:51 <muthu> because they are google
Apr 24 17:18:04 <jasta> ok, well, where'd you get this data from then?
Apr 24 17:18:10 <jasta> because it sounds like you just made it up
Apr 24 17:18:29 <muthu> oh no
Apr 24 17:18:32 <muthu> facts
Apr 24 17:18:33 <jasta> maybe they have the option to have two laptops if they want, but i doubt they just "give" it to you assuming you'll want it.
Apr 24 17:18:42 <jasta> muthu: facts derived from what?  you making it up?
Apr 24 17:18:50 <muthu> i post everything here
Apr 24 17:18:55 <muthu> only you don't read it
Apr 24 17:19:08 <jasta> can somebody please help me figure out what this guy is babbling about?
Apr 24 17:19:16 <muthu> hehe
Apr 24 17:19:24 <yakischloba> calm ;)
Apr 24 17:19:26 <morrildl> I'm more curious how he knows that
Apr 24 17:19:30 <morrildl> ;)
Apr 24 17:19:32 <michaelnovakjr__> i = 0; i >=1; i++
Apr 24 17:19:37 <muthu> there you have it.
Apr 24 17:19:51 <muthu> morrildl: i have my sources :)
Apr 24 17:20:33 <yakischloba> so all the guys that use macs just have a thinkpad sitting in their closet?
Apr 24 17:20:35 <jasta> morrildl: how he knows what?  the you guys get to have either a thinkpad or a mac pro?
Apr 24 17:20:52 <jasta> or allegedly, i mean :)
Apr 24 17:21:26 <michaelnovakjr__> jasta, what he really means is while(1) { babble = true; }
Apr 24 17:21:41 <jasta> bah, i'm done with this conversation
Apr 24 17:21:49 <mumrah> hey will android be able to go on a Samsung i617
Apr 24 17:21:53 <jasta> muthu is, yet again, off his rocker.
Apr 24 17:21:57 <Dougie187> without any answers?
Apr 24 17:21:59 <jasta> muthu: Probably not, no.
Apr 24 17:21:59 <muthu> ah come on
Apr 24 17:21:59 <yakischloba> LoLuMaD?!?!?!
Apr 24 17:22:04 <yakischloba> heh
Apr 24 17:22:07 <muthu> you got confirmation!!
Apr 24 17:22:09 <michaelnovakjr__> mumrah: nobody knowns
Apr 24 17:22:13 <jasta> err mumrah, I meant.
Apr 24 17:22:16 <muthu> and you still don't believe
Apr 24 17:22:18 <muthu> ?
Apr 24 17:22:22 <jasta> i got confirmation?
Apr 24 17:22:26 <Dougie187> he didnt confirm.
Apr 24 17:22:30 <michaelnovakjr__> i didn't see it
Apr 24 17:22:30 <muthu> is morrildl fake?
Apr 24 17:22:34 <Dougie187> he was waiting for you to say where you heard it from.
Apr 24 17:22:38 <michaelnovakjr__> who :)
Apr 24 17:22:39 <mumrah> what devices has it been confirmed to work with?
Apr 24 17:22:43 <jasta> morrildl didn't confirm that you were correct muthu.
Apr 24 17:22:46 <michaelnovakjr__> mumrah: none.
Apr 24 17:22:47 <jasta> he neither confirmed nor denied.
Apr 24 17:22:50 * morrildl thought he did...
Apr 24 17:22:57 <muthu> there again!!
Apr 24 17:23:03 <mumrah> weak
Apr 24 17:23:20 <jasta> morrildl: well you didn't hehe
Apr 24 17:23:20 <michaelnovakjr__> mumrah: what do you want? it hasn't been released yet!
Apr 24 17:23:25 <mumrah> google people get a thinkpad /or/ and macbook pro btw
Apr 24 17:23:41 <jasta> /or/ and?
Apr 24 17:23:48 <mumrah> lol
Apr 24 17:23:51 <mumrah> yes
Apr 24 17:23:52 <mumrah> or and
Apr 24 17:23:53 <jasta> is this some parallel universe that nobody communicates properly?
Apr 24 17:23:57 <michaelnovakjr__> how about and/or ?
Apr 24 17:24:01 <michaelnovakjr__> haha
Apr 24 17:24:14 <michaelnovakjr__> jasta, we reached the end of the universe
Apr 24 17:24:21 <michaelnovakjr__> android is the mothership
Apr 24 17:24:23 <jasta> michaelnovakjr__: Yeah I think so.  I don't like the view.
Apr 24 17:24:27 <muthu> there's a lot of intersting google tidbits
Apr 24 17:24:29 <Dougie187> lol well jasta had a hard time answering a simple question earlier.
Apr 24 17:24:40 <Dougie187> so i dont think he is one to complain about communication.
Apr 24 17:24:48 <muthu> yup
Apr 24 17:24:53 <jasta> Dougie187: Because it made no sense.  How can I answer the question: "How much cola did you drink?"
Apr 24 17:24:54 <muthu> jasta is out of his mind today
Apr 24 17:24:58 <michaelnovakjr__> when i was a kid i drank 12.0000231 liters of soda a month
Apr 24 17:25:06 <muthu> lol
Apr 24 17:25:09 <Dougie187> Lol you were saying that you got the nickname for drinking a lot of cola.
Apr 24 17:25:16 <Dougie187> so you should have an idea of how much a lot is.
Apr 24 17:25:17 <jasta> Since I was 12?  Jeez, I don't know, 2000 cans?
Apr 24 17:25:31 <Dougie187> in what time span?
Apr 24 17:25:32 <michaelnovakjr__> ***estimate
Apr 24 17:25:32 <Dougie187> a year?
Apr 24 17:25:35 <jasta> If instead he meant how much did I typically drink on a particular scale, then I could answer.
Apr 24 17:25:47 <jasta> But he asked some bonehead question in a stupid way, so I couldn't answer.
Apr 24 17:25:48 <michaelnovakjr__> 12 months three days and two hours Dougie187
Apr 24 17:25:49 <Dougie187> how much did you drink per day on average?
Apr 24 17:25:55 <Dougie187> There ya go.
Apr 24 17:26:03 <jasta> Dougie187: Now that's a question I can answer.  Do you see the difference?
Apr 24 17:26:04 <muthu> i asked how many kola u drank?
Apr 24 17:26:07 <michaelnovakjr__> Dougie187: do you work for cola?
Apr 24 17:26:16 <mumrah> this is the google mobile os channel, right?
Apr 24 17:26:27 <michaelnovakjr__> mumrah: its the end of the universe
Apr 24 17:26:28 <jasta> michaelnovakjr__: My head is literally going to explode.
Apr 24 17:26:34 <michaelnovakjr__> haha
Apr 24 17:26:36 <Dougie187> I do not work for cola.
Apr 24 17:26:46 <Dougie187> peanuts. possibly.
Apr 24 17:26:49 <Dougie187> not cola though
Apr 24 17:26:51 <jasta> Normally heads exploding is not possible, but since this is the edge of the known universe, I suspect it can happen
Apr 24 17:26:54 <muthu> do koala drink cola?
Apr 24 17:27:11 <muthu> jasta drank koala!
Apr 24 17:27:14 <michaelnovakjr__> whats koala.... is that something on the android mothership?
Apr 24 17:27:14 <Dougie187> you dont have to answer that jasta.
Apr 24 17:27:23 <muthu> lol
Apr 24 17:27:26 <Dougie187> its a bear.
Apr 24 17:27:49 <michaelnovakjr__> did someone write a soda dispensing application, since we hit the end of the universe and there's no going back!
Apr 24 17:27:53 <jasta> btw, I wish I could have a red panda for a pet.
Apr 24 17:28:44 <jasta> michaelnovakjr__: hehe, i put an easter egg in my app but it turns out the version i submitted to the judges it didn't quite work as it was supposed to
Apr 24 17:28:48 <jasta> but i tried, anyway.
Apr 24 17:28:56 <michaelnovakjr__> haha
Apr 24 17:28:59 <jasta> all the music the judges download has been re-encoded with festival so that it's legal, right?
Apr 24 17:29:16 <jasta> well, there was supposed to have been a song in there by the artist GLaDOS that sang the lyrics to the song at the end of the portal game
Apr 24 17:29:17 <michaelnovakjr__> yes
Apr 24 17:29:19 <jasta> using festival
Apr 24 17:29:27 <michaelnovakjr__> :)
Apr 24 17:29:34 <Dougie187> Lol
Apr 24 17:29:36 <Dougie187> Still Alive.
Apr 24 17:29:38 <jasta> but it didn't work because i didn't include an album, and i forgot that songs not tethered to an album don't work for the dummy version sent to the judges hehe
Apr 24 17:29:38 <Dougie187> that would be sweet
Apr 24 17:29:39 <michaelnovakjr__> i wrote a new android app :)
Apr 24 17:30:00 <jasta> i was really disappointed when i realized that hehe
Apr 24 17:30:02 <michaelnovakjr__> its a stupidity detector..... voice activated.... if you say something stupid it tasers you
Apr 24 17:30:15 <michaelnovakjr__> no way to turn it off......
Apr 24 17:30:30 <jasta> it must be a real drain on battery
Apr 24 17:30:37 <Dougie187> haha
Apr 24 17:30:38 <michaelnovakjr__> only if you are stupid :)
Apr 24 17:32:32 <Dougie187> i bet muthu would drain the battery a lot.
Apr 24 17:32:37 <michaelnovakjr__> haha
Apr 24 17:32:39 <muthu> haha
Apr 24 17:32:49 <muthu> i wrote an app btw
Apr 24 17:32:59 <michaelnovakjr__> soda meter?
Apr 24 17:33:01 <Dougie187> i did not.
Apr 24 17:33:05 <Dougie187> thought i wish i had.
Apr 24 17:33:13 <michaelnovakjr__> zaappp!!
Apr 24 17:33:18 <jasta> you could've been part of all this mind-numbing excitement.
Apr 24 17:33:19 <Dougie187> lol
Apr 24 17:33:26 <michaelnovakjr__> haha
Apr 24 17:33:27 <Dougie187> i know
Apr 24 17:33:33 <Dougie187> its like a party everyday
Apr 24 17:33:36 <jasta> was i being sarcastic?  i honestly can't tell.
Apr 24 17:33:36 <Dougie187> but only after 11:30 am here
Apr 24 17:33:52 <Dougie187> well.
Apr 24 17:33:54 <michaelnovakjr__> later than that depending on where you are
Apr 24 17:33:57 <michaelnovakjr__> zaaappppp
Apr 24 17:33:58 <Dougie187> i think it is about time to reinstall my laptop
Apr 24 17:34:06 <Dougie187> since i got my ubuntu cd burnt now.
Apr 24 17:34:17 <muthu> new version?
Apr 24 17:34:17 <michaelnovakjr__> you're slow.... i am already using it :)
Apr 24 17:34:29 <muthu> what's it called.. fart?
Apr 24 17:34:38 <muthu> i know someone mentioned it today
Apr 24 17:34:41 <Dougie187> ...
Apr 24 17:34:48 <Dougie187> hardy
Apr 24 17:34:51 <michaelnovakjr__> heron
Apr 24 17:34:56 <michaelnovakjr__> hardy heron
Apr 24 17:34:59 <michaelnovakjr__> zaaapppppp
Apr 24 17:35:11 <muthu> oh yes
Apr 24 17:35:13 <muthu> hardy
Apr 24 17:40:17 <michaelnovakjr__> zapp hardy heron
Apr 24 17:43:33 <Dougie187> i should be back in about an hour
Apr 24 17:43:36 <Dougie187> have fun everyone
Apr 24 17:57:41 <muthu> any SDK release soon?
Apr 24 17:58:02 <Hai-Fai> haha
Apr 24 17:58:14 <muthu> Hai-Fai: you don't expect it huh
Apr 24 17:58:29 <Hai-Fai> I asked it earlier =)
Apr 24 17:58:41 <Hai-Fai> and no-one has answer to it, so we'll be waiting
Apr 24 17:58:52 <muthu> the droids keep it secret
Apr 24 17:59:02 <Hai-Fai> unfortenately yes
Apr 24 17:59:10 <muthu> which don't make sense
Apr 24 17:59:37 <muthu> if i'm in charge of android development
Apr 24 17:59:43 <muthu> things would be different
Apr 24 18:00:05 <muthu> now i would do a release
Apr 24 18:00:13 <muthu> to keep the developers busy
Apr 24 18:01:07 <Hai-Fai> =P
Apr 24 18:01:24 <muthu> morrildl: where are you?
Apr 24 18:04:56 <michaelnovakjr__> he is manning the mothership, the droid army is ready to fight off the numerous times a day they get asked 'whens the next sdk coming out'
Apr 24 18:05:10 <muthu> michaelnovakjr__: why is that a secret?
Apr 24 18:05:49 <donomo> anyone got android loaded on their HTC TyTy II?
Apr 24 18:05:52 <michaelnovakjr__> if they said muthu it wouldn't be a secret anymore
Apr 24 18:06:05 <michaelnovakjr__> donomo: it is not available for phones yet!
Apr 24 18:06:37 <muthu> donomo: there were some ports tried
Apr 24 18:06:40 <donomo> michaelnovakjr__: http://www.intomobile.com/2008/04/12/htc-tytn-ii-can-run-android.html
Apr 24 18:07:24 <donomo> better link, with video http://www.wmexperts.com/articles/load_up_android_on_your_tilt.html
Apr 24 18:13:22 <michaelnovakjr__> ok, donomo, that is not official
Apr 24 18:13:34 <michaelnovakjr__> that is what we like to call a 'hack'
Apr 24 18:14:12 <donomo> thank you, captain obvious. :)
Apr 24 18:14:37 <donomo> maybe someone here has a tilt phone
Apr 24 18:15:58 <donomo> michaelnovakjr__: its an interesting hack, isnt it?
Apr 24 18:16:35 <morrildl> muthu: chillaxin' with Dick Cheney at an undisclosed location ;)
Apr 24 18:16:46 <muthu> haha
Apr 24 18:16:56 <morrildl> I am at work
Apr 24 18:17:07 <muthu> ok, when's the next sdk?
Apr 24 18:17:23 <morrildl> as soon as I can get to it :)
Apr 24 18:17:30 <muthu> then get to it soon ;)
Apr 24 18:17:38 <morrildl> that is the goal
Apr 24 18:17:50 <davidw> morrildl, I suppose you've been *sleeping* and *eating* again...
Apr 24 18:17:52 <muthu> this is the best time to release
Apr 24 18:18:05 <morrildl> davidw: Yes, and I have to make a shameful confession
Apr 24 18:18:10 <morrildl> last night I played metroid Prime 3 for 2 hours.
Apr 24 18:18:28 <muthu> good to relax
Apr 24 18:19:03 <muthu> morrildl:  all applications tested?
Apr 24 18:19:30 <morrildl> muthu: you mean the judging?  they are being judged, yes
Apr 24 18:19:41 <muthu> yeah, judging - is it over?
Apr 24 18:19:48 <morrildl> not yet
Apr 24 18:19:51 <morrildl> lots of apps to judge
Apr 24 18:19:59 <muthu> 1788 to be exact
Apr 24 18:20:02 <muthu> :)
Apr 24 18:20:12 <donomo> just loading 1788 apps would take a long time
Apr 24 18:20:13 * morrildl is familiar with the number
Apr 24 18:20:40 <morrildl> ...since the "golden se" is on my hard drive :)
Apr 24 18:20:42 <donomo> roll a 1788-sided dice and delare a winner.
Apr 24 18:20:46 <morrildl> golden set even
Apr 24 18:20:54 <morrildl> donomo: don't tempt me
Apr 24 18:21:06 <muthu> may5 is the party right?
Apr 24 18:22:45 <michaelnovakjr__> i am hoping my app wins, otherwise its pretty much not going to get off the ground because it needs money :)
Apr 24 18:23:03 <muthu> why it needs money?
Apr 24 18:23:11 <michaelnovakjr__> lots of server side hardware
Apr 24 18:23:16 <michaelnovakjr__> its a big system
Apr 24 18:23:31 <muthu> the media files right
Apr 24 18:23:38 <michaelnovakjr__> mine is the weatherphone
Apr 24 18:23:40 <muthu> weatherphone
Apr 24 18:23:49 <michaelnovakjr__> indeed
Apr 24 18:23:54 <muthu> yes remembered
Apr 24 18:24:16 <michaelnovakjr__> to be useful, it needs to be able to support millions of users
Apr 24 18:24:18 <muthu> michaelnovakjr__: did you look for investors?
Apr 24 18:24:22 <michaelnovakjr__> nope
Apr 24 18:24:33 <Lede> my app is an embrasement, that is why i won't tell anyone
Apr 24 18:24:40 <michaelnovakjr__> no idea where to look
Apr 24 18:24:41 <muthu> Lede: what's it?
Apr 24 18:24:54 <Lede> i will tell if i win
Apr 24 18:25:12 <muthu> is it a cooking show?
Apr 24 18:25:14 <muthu> hehe
Apr 24 18:26:10 <muthu> oh oh
Apr 24 18:26:17 <Lede> guess more!
Apr 24 18:26:43 <muthu> i think i got the right answer
Apr 24 18:27:41 <Lede> <insert onomatopoeic for wrong>
Apr 24 18:27:54 <muthu> then tell me
Apr 24 18:28:07 <Lede> i can't! it's so bad, it's top secret
Apr 24 18:28:17 <muthu> if its secret i can understand
Apr 24 18:28:28 <muthu> but don't feel bad
Apr 24 18:30:31 <Lede> muthu: did you submit something?
Apr 24 18:30:44 <muthu> yes, a cooking app
Apr 24 18:31:02 <Lede> ok
Apr 24 18:31:12 <Lede> i remember you telling me about it now
Apr 24 18:31:22 <Dougie187> And... im back
Apr 24 18:36:36 <Dougie187> What...
Apr 24 18:36:42 <muthu> Dougie187: how's hardy?
Apr 24 18:36:44 <Dougie187> google toolbar is not compatible with firefox 3 beta 5..
Apr 24 18:36:46 <Dougie187> its pretty cool
Apr 24 18:36:55 <Dougie187> they have better touchpad support built into it
Apr 24 18:37:01 <muthu> great
Apr 24 18:37:06 <muthu> anything else you notice?
Apr 24 18:37:43 <Dougie187> Not as of yet.
Apr 24 18:37:54 <Dougie187> though im playing super smash bros while i play with it as well
Apr 24 18:40:23 <michaelnovakjr__> i like hardy
Apr 24 18:40:35 <muthu> any major updates?
Apr 24 18:40:36 <michaelnovakjr__> seems pretty stable
Apr 24 18:40:45 <muthu> http://www.itgalary.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=828&PID=1407#1407
Apr 24 18:41:20 <Dougie187> im kinda pissed that the google toolbar doesnt work though
Apr 24 18:41:38 <Dougie187> it bums me out
Apr 24 18:41:39 <muthu> hardy comes with ff beta?
Apr 24 18:41:41 <Dougie187> yeah
Apr 24 18:41:46 <Dougie187> 3beta5
Apr 24 18:41:51 <muthu> why?
Apr 24 18:41:53 <muthu> is it stable?
Apr 24 18:42:02 <Dougie187> ionno
Apr 24 18:42:07 <Dougie187> ask the developers.
Apr 24 18:42:22 <muthu> the developers seem to be happy
Apr 24 18:42:28 <muthu> the users suffer!
Apr 24 18:42:30 <Dougie187> im gonna downgrad firefox
Apr 24 18:42:36 <Dougie187> downgrade.
Apr 24 18:42:54 <Dougie187> some of the multiverse repos are hanging now.
Apr 24 18:42:57 <Dougie187> also.
Apr 24 18:43:02 <Dougie187> so i cant install flash right now
Apr 24 18:43:05 <Dougie187> but thats not a huge deal
Apr 24 18:43:49 <muthu> oh oh
Apr 24 18:43:54 <muthu> seems you have some problems
Apr 24 18:44:53 <Dougie187> eh its not like a huge issue right now
Apr 24 18:44:58 <Dougie187> cept firefox 3 beta 5
Apr 24 18:45:02 <Dougie187> ubuntu is working great
Apr 24 18:45:08 <Dougie187> and beta 5 would be cool cept google toolbar
Apr 24 18:45:32 <muthu> its bleeeding edge
Apr 24 18:46:57 <michaelnovakjr__> you can install the firefox 2.0 package on 8.04 if needed
Apr 24 18:48:35 <muthu> Apple has decide to dump all its old iphone stocks in India
Apr 24 18:48:38 <Dougie187> thats what im trying to do
Apr 24 18:48:50 <muthu> for a cool $700!
Apr 24 18:49:02 <muthu> this is not 3G mind you..
Apr 24 18:50:18 <muthu> that's one reason for me to hate apple
Apr 24 18:51:16 <Dougie187> michaelnovakjr: do you know how to install the old firefox?
Apr 24 18:52:13 <michaelnovakjr__> its in the package manager
Apr 24 18:53:21 <michaelnovakjr__> or
Apr 24 18:53:34 <michaelnovakjr__> on the shell tyep sudo apt-get install firefox-2
Apr 24 18:53:54 <Dougie187> nice ok
Apr 24 18:53:54 <Dougie187> thanks
Apr 24 18:54:04 <michaelnovakjr__> no problem
Apr 24 19:01:37 <muthu> good night
Apr 24 19:08:19 <Dougie187> man are the ubuntu repos slow today.
Apr 24 19:08:20 <Dougie187> lol
Apr 24 19:08:23 <Dougie187> i bet they are getting hammered
Apr 24 19:16:24 <mihoshi> Anyone used AssetManager class?
Apr 24 19:19:15 <michaelnovakjr__> anyone get this: emulator-tcp-5555 disconnected! Cancelling 'org.weatherphone.android.WeatherPhone.WeatherPhone' launch!
Apr 24 19:48:51 <jasta> sigh
Apr 24 19:49:03 <jasta> how come nobody knows anything about networking?
Apr 24 19:52:58 <Kraln> what do you need to know?
Apr 24 19:53:08 <Kraln> or are you expressing discontent at the world in general
Apr 24 19:53:55 <jasta> the latter
Apr 24 19:54:47 <Kraln> ah.
Apr 24 19:54:50 <jasta> i sent a note to the makers of that barracuda spam fireawll thing to kindly point out that their latest firmware has a bug when interacting with greylisted servers
Apr 24 19:55:05 <Kraln> and what'd you get back? nothing? form letter not addressing your concern?
Apr 24 19:55:40 <jasta> instead, they retorted with the logic that since barracuda is an industry leading product that i must be mistaken and it is in fact my e-mail server, which does not have a barracuda device, which is the problem.
Apr 24 19:56:09 <jasta> so i called their tech support and tried to report it as a bug that way
Apr 24 19:56:23 <jasta> asked to be escalated to some dude that finally answered with "Hello?  What?"
Apr 24 19:56:55 <jasta> and when i tried to explain that the SMTP code 450 should be a temporary failure that should be retried he just kind of sat there idly on the other end of the phone waiting for me to tell him what to say or something
Apr 24 19:57:10 <jasta> until he finally responded that he doesn't think there's an issue with barracuda's firmware
Apr 24 19:57:53 <jasta> despite it being so incredibly obvious.  he wasn't willing to test their product, either.
Apr 24 19:58:22 <jasta> if the relay tries to send a message to a server which responds 450 Mailbox unavailable, it will permanently reject the message, not send a bounce notice to the user, but never retry.
Apr 24 19:58:39 <jasta> their logging shows it as a "Fatal SMTP server configuration error."
Apr 24 19:58:55 <jasta> despite it being mentioned very clearly in the SMTP documentation as a temporary failure demanding a retry.
Apr 24 20:00:00 <jasta> i also experienced this same type of ridiculous behaviour when i tried to get a router replaced at Qwest which had the fatal TCP window scaling bug as documented here:
Apr 24 20:00:03 <jasta> http://lwn.net/Articles/92727/
Apr 24 20:00:25 <jasta> ultimately they told me that it must be my equipment (DSL modem, which they provided) which was the problem and sent me a new one.
Apr 24 20:00:46 <jasta> which of course did nothing, since i had already done all the work necessary to find the EXACT router that had the bug!
Apr 24 20:00:54 <jasta> i could point it out to them by fucking name and they wouldn't just go look at it
Apr 24 20:01:08 <jasta> it would've been easier to break into the building and destroy it with a hammer
Apr 24 20:03:14 <jasta> in fact, i have never had a positive reaction from any supposed network or IT professional i've ever dealt with, anywhere.
Apr 24 20:07:53 <benley> but you're not bitter.
Apr 24 20:09:04 <jasta> it's just ridiculous.  there's so little accountability in this industry.  programmers, system administrators, ...they all can get away with such ridiculous, shoddy work.
Apr 24 20:15:11 <Kraln> which is why I sell hosting
Apr 24 20:15:19 <Kraln> I can't stand idiots in control
Apr 24 20:15:33 <Kraln> so, I only ever have to deal with the bandwidth provider, the rest is me
Apr 24 20:16:31 <Kraln> quite frankly I just don't trust anyone else to do it right
Apr 24 20:27:03 <f00f-> jasta: i agree. it is so sad. and it's hard to change it :(
Apr 24 20:27:22 <f00f-> protocol violators should die.
Apr 24 20:40:09 <f00f-> i think T-Mobile here in the US is poised for a play
Apr 24 20:40:18 <f00f-> they don't have 3G, but perhaps Google may partner with them
Apr 24 20:40:42 <f00f-> they're now saying they'll have an Android device in their lineup
Apr 24 20:40:45 <f00f-> by year's end
Apr 24 20:41:57 <Kraln> that doesn't help me
Apr 24 20:42:02 <Kraln> I get the best coverage with sprint
Apr 24 20:42:37 <Kraln> tmobile has very good customer service in the USA though
Apr 24 20:44:40 <Dougie187> yeah i read that they were planning to have an android on out by the end of the year
Apr 24 20:44:57 <Dougie187> i have sprint as well, and sprint is supposed to have a device as well, just no timeline on it.
Apr 24 20:45:06 <Dougie187> sprints customer service blows though
Apr 24 20:45:34 <f00f-> i'm quite happy sprint's stock, even though i dont have their service :)
Apr 24 20:46:16 <Dougie187> heh
Apr 24 20:46:18 <Dougie187> i have their service.
Apr 24 20:46:25 <Dougie187> cell service is pretty good
Apr 24 20:46:29 <Dougie187> never had a horrible problem with it.
Apr 24 20:46:37 <Dougie187> but customer service is the worst thing i have ever had to deal with
Apr 24 20:46:38 <Dougie187> ever.
Apr 24 20:46:54 <f00f-> so i hear
Apr 24 20:47:28 <Dougie187> heh
Apr 24 20:56:44 <michaelnovakjr__> sprint sucks
Apr 24 20:57:12 <f00f-> meetings suck!
Apr 24 20:58:00 <Dougie187> i enjoy a good meeting now and then
Apr 24 20:58:53 <Kraln> their customer service is terrible
Apr 24 20:58:59 <Kraln> which is why I have employee customer service
Apr 24 20:59:03 <Kraln> which is still terrible
Apr 24 23:10:46 <jasta> i'm guessing that the next SDK release is going to be *huge* :)
Apr 24 23:10:53 <Dougie187> lol
Apr 24 23:10:56 <Dougie187> you mean you are hoping
Apr 24 23:11:00 <jasta> this is the longest break between releases yet by a long shot
Apr 24 23:11:21 <Dougie187> by *huge* do you mean in content? or in size?
Apr 24 23:11:32 <jasta> content
Apr 24 23:12:10 <Dougie187> we shall see
Apr 24 23:12:36 <Dougie187> i got hardy up an running
Apr 24 23:34:00 <Dougie187> jasta: how is phase two coming along?
Apr 24 23:35:21 <jasta> phase two?
Apr 24 23:35:28 <jasta> of my evil plan, or the other thing?
Apr 24 23:49:44 <f00f-> how is hardy heron
Apr 24 23:49:48 <f00f-> is it out yet Dougie187 ?
Apr 24 23:50:13 <f00f-> ubuntu puts out a fair amount half-baked releases
Apr 24 23:53:50 <f00f-> still no hits
Apr 25 00:01:05 <jasta> i didn't get notified all day that i can dist-upgrade yet, so they must not have the scripts done
Apr 25 00:03:22 <jjt009> f00f: no hits?
Apr 25 00:03:27 <jjt009> f00f: wow...
Apr 25 00:03:35 <jjt009> jasta: you?
Apr 25 00:24:07 <Dougie187> Lol
Apr 25 00:24:14 <Dougie187> no dude. you have to do an apt-get upgrade first.
Apr 25 00:24:33 <Dougie187> hardy is out btw.
Apr 25 00:24:35 <Dougie187> its pretty cool
Apr 25 00:24:39 <Dougie187> not a whole lot different
Apr 25 00:24:53 <Dougie187> but its pretty cool so far
Apr 25 00:35:26 <jasta> jjt009: nope
Apr 25 00:35:59 <jasta> hey malverian
Apr 25 00:36:03 <jasta> err, pawalls_
Apr 25 00:40:32 <Dougie187> btw, jasta. I meant your ADC project.
Apr 25 00:41:03 <jasta> well i dont know specifically what you mean by phase two, but it's going well.
Apr 25 00:41:18 <jasta> i'm beefing up the server right now, getting it ready to be a releasable product
Apr 25 00:41:22 <Dougie187> well phase two = what you hope to turn in for the second part.
Apr 25 00:41:39 <jasta> oh, i haven't defined those goals yet :)
Apr 25 00:41:47 <Dougie187> heh
Apr 25 00:41:52 <Dougie187> did you do a dist-upgrade yet?
Apr 25 00:42:05 <jasta> if i make it to round two, at a minimum i want the judges to have to run the real server
Apr 25 00:42:08 <pawalls_> jasta, pong
Apr 25 00:42:12 <jasta> and do away with those demo repository business
Apr 25 00:42:28 <pawalls_> Sorry, was having a frisbee fight ;)
Apr 25 00:42:45 <jasta> it happens
Apr 25 00:43:04 <jasta> i bought my tickets and got a hotel for I/O
Apr 25 00:43:28 <pawalls[work]> rockin'
Apr 25 00:43:32 <jasta> stayin at the marriott right next to the convention center
Apr 25 00:44:18 <pawalls[work]> mm.. I can almost taste the cheesy tater tots drowned in 40oz miller high life already.
Apr 25 00:53:27 <jjt009> jasta: you an independent dev?
Apr 25 00:53:34 <jjt009> or are you working for a company?
Apr 25 01:29:16 <jasta> jjt009: are they mutually exclusive?
Apr 25 01:29:25 <jasta> pawalls[work]: lol
Apr 25 02:12:39 <michaelnovakjr> what are the dates for I/O again?
Apr 25 02:18:54 <jasta> may 28-29
Apr 25 02:19:31 <michaelnovakjr> damn, engagement party
Apr 25 02:23:45 <raidfive> then RailsConf May 29th - June 1st :/ ... back to back conferences for me
Apr 25 02:23:53 <f00f-> sucks
Apr 25 02:24:19 <raidfive> at least RailsConf is in Portland :)
Apr 25 02:24:35 <raidfive> 20 minutes drive
Apr 25 02:24:51 <f00f-> heh
Apr 25 02:25:00 <f00f-> you act as if it's a chore
Apr 25 02:25:07 <f00f-> you guys get like cocktail receptions and such
Apr 25 02:25:23 <raidfive> I just know I'm going to be dead tired after it is all said and done
Apr 25 02:25:27 <raidfive> but it will be worth it
Apr 25 02:25:37 <f00f-> yeah
Apr 25 02:25:40 <f00f-> i go to conferences for the beer
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Fri Apr 25 02:59:57 2008