**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Jul 22 02:59:57 2008
Jul 22 03:01:00 <AttractiveApe> yeah
Jul 22 03:01:33 <yakischloba> Whats the goal of what you guys are working on? Just to further android functionality on touch/vogue?
Jul 22 03:01:49 <michaelnovakjr_> hm, not sure if it an sms.apk bug or android one ..... but the notifications don't go away when you pull up a message
Jul 22 03:02:00 <yakischloba> I've been watching all the details but I missed the bigger picture if there is one ;)
Jul 22 03:02:02 <AttractiveApe> michaelnovakjr_yeah, annoying isn't it.
Jul 22 03:02:17 <michaelnovakjr_> yea, i've been getting sms messages while test
Jul 22 03:02:18 <michaelnovakjr_> in
Jul 22 03:02:30 <michaelnovakjr_> yakischloba: its pretty interesting
Jul 22 03:02:41 <michaelnovakjr_> working on a device and emulator is very very different
Jul 22 03:02:48 <yakischloba> michaelnovakjr_: it sounds like it
Jul 22 03:03:16 <yakischloba> michaelnovakjr_: is this using a kernel that google put together to run on their test hardware and happens to run on your phones?
Jul 22 03:03:26 <AttractiveApe> Correct.
Jul 22 03:03:32 <yakischloba> gotcha
Jul 22 03:03:37 <michaelnovakjr_> the kernel code is available at git.android.com
Jul 22 03:03:39 <yakischloba> But you guys are working on driver stuff?
Jul 22 03:03:49 <AttractiveApe> The hardware the HTC Dream is using, is very similar to the Vogue in terms of chipset.
Jul 22 03:09:17 <yakischloba> I see no commit for a while. Is it abandoned?
Jul 22 03:09:34 <michaelnovakjr_> ?
Jul 22 03:09:44 <yakischloba> the kernel
Jul 22 03:10:53 <AttractiveApe> no, they're just hiding the recent source like they're hiding the dk.
Jul 22 03:10:55 <AttractiveApe> *sdk
Jul 22 03:11:06 <yakischloba> oh.
Jul 22 03:11:55 <AttractiveApe> anyways, I'm heading out.  ttyl all.
Jul 22 03:12:02 <michaelnovakjr_> later
Jul 22 03:12:03 <yakischloba> cya.
Jul 22 03:46:59 <jasta> yawn
Jul 22 03:47:09 <yakischloba> good evening
Jul 22 03:50:02 <muthu> mornin
Jul 22 03:50:20 <f00f-> what's going on folks
Jul 22 03:50:21 <yakischloba> or mornin ;)
Jul 22 03:50:26 <yakischloba> hah
Jul 22 03:50:32 <yakischloba> all those on the other side of the world are rising
Jul 22 03:51:06 <f00f-> indeed
Jul 22 03:52:05 <duey> so romainguy romainguy_ romainguy__ romainguy___ romainguy____ romainguy_____ having a multiple personality day?
Jul 22 03:52:15 <romainguy_____> just like every day
Jul 22 03:53:05 <duey> seems to of multiplied
Jul 22 03:56:53 <gambler> those logouts are from looking at porno
Jul 22 03:57:22 * gambler __________________________________________________________________________________________________
Jul 22 03:59:12 <yakischloba> lol
Jul 22 04:11:24 <muthu> lol
Jul 22 07:28:12 <alex2308> morning rotary-dialer dudez
Jul 22 11:24:56 <plusminus_> gday
Jul 22 11:25:19 <anno^da_> morsche / good morning everybody
Jul 22 11:25:31 <plusminus_> how to get the layout_width/height-XML of a View inside its XML-constructor?
Jul 22 11:25:34 <plusminus_> i thought of :
Jul 22 11:25:37 <plusminus_> StyledAttributes a = ctx.obtainStyledAttributes(attrs, android.R.styleable.View);
Jul 22 11:25:49 <plusminus_> a.getInt(android.R.styleable.View_??????, -1);
Jul 22 11:26:08 <plusminus_> but there is nothign like "width" or "height"
Jul 22 11:26:32 <plusminus_> just background, id, paddding, etc..
Jul 22 11:26:57 <plusminus_> muthu: hi
Jul 22 11:32:11 <muthu> hi
Jul 22 11:33:01 <plusminus_> do you know how to get the layout_width/height-XML of a View inside its XML-constructor?
Jul 22 11:33:09 <plusminus_> my idea was sth like:
Jul 22 11:33:10 <plusminus_> StyledAttributes a = ctx.obtainStyledAttributes(attrs, android.R.styleable.View);
Jul 22 11:33:14 <plusminus_> 	a.getInt(android.R.styleable.View_??????, -1);
Jul 22 11:33:51 <plusminus_> (its just the most simple view:         public class MyView extends View {
Jul 22 11:34:14 <muthu> you mean in code?
Jul 22 11:34:18 <plusminus_> yes
Jul 22 11:34:49 <muthu> is there no methods to get them?
Jul 22 11:35:10 <muthu> i mean there must be something in View, right?
Jul 22 11:35:16 <muthu> like getHeight()...
Jul 22 11:35:27 <muthu> oh the layout
Jul 22 11:35:40 <plusminus_> oh not that but: getLayoutParams().height
Jul 22 11:35:45 <plusminus_> coudl work...
Jul 22 11:36:00 <muthu> yeah.. its coming from layout params
Jul 22 11:42:35 <plusminus_> raises inflateException :( ...
Jul 22 11:43:57 <muthu> hmm
Jul 22 11:44:53 <plusminus_> maybe its somewhere in the "inflateParams" that are passed to this constructor...
Jul 22 11:45:31 <muthu> are you getting or setting?
Jul 22 11:45:37 <plusminus_> just getting
Jul 22 11:45:45 <plusminus_> I don't even know what kind of generic it uses... (its just "Map")
Jul 22 11:45:48 <plusminus_> CELL_HEIGHT = getLayoutParams().height;
Jul 22 11:47:25 <plusminus_> according to the docs it should hide within "attrs": --> "The attributes of the XML tag that is inflating the view."
Jul 22 11:47:36 <plusminus_> great
Jul 22 11:52:10 <plusminus_> gotcha
Jul 22 11:52:25 <plusminus_> 		for(int i = 0; i < attrs.getAttributeCount(); i++)
Jul 22 11:52:26 <plusminus_>  			Log.d(Constants.DEBUGTAG, "attrs[" + i + "]: " + attrs.getAttributeValue(i));
Jul 22 11:52:32 <muthu> cool
Jul 22 11:52:52 <plusminus_> this way sucks a bit... but i don't mind
Jul 22 11:52:52 <muthu> if you have a debugger.. it would be easy to find out :)
Jul 22 11:53:01 <plusminus_> ^^
Jul 22 11:53:10 <muthu> really digg through the variables.. and see what they hold
Jul 22 11:53:39 <plusminus_> unfortunately they don't come in as they are written down in the xml-file...
Jul 22 11:53:39 <muthu> you run eclipse debug, right?
Jul 22 11:53:52 <muthu> yeah, the docs are not always upto date
Jul 22 11:54:14 <plusminus_> no, i mean:
Jul 22 11:54:24 <muthu> yeah, i got you..
Jul 22 11:54:28 <plusminus_> 	<org.anddev.andsudoku.apk.views.SudokuView
Jul 22 11:54:33 <plusminus_> 	    android:layout_width="115px"
Jul 22 11:54:36 <plusminus_> 	    android:layout_height="115px"
Jul 22 11:54:40 <plusminus_> 	    android:layout_gravity="center_horizontal"
Jul 22 11:54:43 <plusminus_> 	    android:padding="2px"
Jul 22 11:54:48 <plusminus_> 	    android:background="@drawable/gamefield_background_color"/>
Jul 22 11:54:54 <plusminus_> and the code above returns:
Jul 22 11:55:19 <plusminus_> attrs[0]: center_horizontal
Jul 22 11:55:23 <plusminus_> DEBUG/ANDSUDOKU_DEBUGTAG(1557): attrs[1]: @drawable/gamefield_background_color
Jul 22 11:55:29 <plusminus_> attrs[2]: 2px
Jul 22 11:55:33 <plusminus_> attrs[3]: 115px
Jul 22 11:55:37 <plusminus_> attrs[4]: 115px
Jul 22 11:55:43 <plusminus_> so its more or less random ^^
Jul 22 11:56:00 <muthu> isn't there an attr object?
Jul 22 11:56:34 <plusminus_> yes there is
Jul 22 11:57:18 <plusminus_> thats what I'm using in the loop
Jul 22 11:58:00 <muthu> there should be an easy way
Jul 22 11:58:15 <muthu> or just note down the index
Jul 22 12:00:23 <plusminus_> got one:
Jul 22 12:00:25 <plusminus_> String width = attrs.getAttributeValue("http://schemas.android.com/apk/res/android", "layout_width");
Jul 22 12:00:40 <plusminus_> works fine
Jul 22 12:00:57 <muthu> great
Jul 22 12:01:33 <muthu> your 1$ strategy is great
Jul 22 12:01:49 <muthu> but make sure there's a wide variety of apps to choose from
Jul 22 12:01:50 <plusminus_> ;) we'll see if it works
Jul 22 12:01:54 <muthu> it will
Jul 22 12:01:57 <muthu> variety is the key
Jul 22 12:02:12 <plusminus_> just making a "sudoku app in a day"
Jul 22 12:02:13 <muthu> the more, the better
Jul 22 12:02:19 <muthu> yeah, just simple apps
Jul 22 12:02:24 <muthu> all little things
Jul 22 12:02:42 <plusminus_> ... just got a incredible idea:
Jul 22 12:02:47 <plusminus_> AndLIGHT !!!
Jul 22 12:02:52 <plusminus_> just a white screen
Jul 22 12:02:55 <plusminus_> for 1$
Jul 22 12:02:56 <plusminus_> :-D
Jul 22 12:02:58 <muthu> woah!
Jul 22 12:02:59 <muthu> haha
Jul 22 12:03:00 <muthu> lol
Jul 22 12:03:08 <plusminus_> :-D
Jul 22 12:03:08 <muthu> hey!!
Jul 22 12:03:15 <muthu> and then glow it in different colors
Jul 22 12:03:21 <muthu> that would be cool
Jul 22 12:03:40 <muthu> these are the apps that are going to sell
Jul 22 12:03:47 <muthu> keep it simple
Jul 22 12:03:54 <muthu> but have tons of them
Jul 22 12:03:55 <plusminus_> i'm really excited what the """Google-Market/Appstore""" will be like
Jul 22 12:04:06 <muthu> yeah
Jul 22 12:27:14 <gambler> Im staking out HelloWorld.apk right now
Jul 22 12:27:19 <gambler> I called it...no takebacksies
Jul 22 12:40:45 <anno^da_> I will do a SOS light :)
Jul 22 12:48:44 <muthu> light is cool
Jul 22 12:49:29 <anno^da_> Yeah :)
Jul 22 12:49:37 <anno^da_> or some easy to setup alarm clock
Jul 22 12:49:44 <anno^da_> clocks
Jul 22 12:50:50 <muthu> all those simple little utilties
Jul 22 12:50:54 <muthu> are going to fly
Jul 22 12:52:35 <anno^da_> Sure. If you look at the iPhone. You can get 20 radio apps in the store
Jul 22 12:52:45 <anno^da_> every app is playing ONE single radio station :P
Jul 22 12:53:01 <michaelnovakjr__> fly muthu?
Jul 22 12:53:28 <anno^da_> they will be sold very often thats what he wanted to say right ?
Jul 22 12:53:51 <anno^da_> If you look at the ringtone industry. It is a mess :P
Jul 22 12:53:51 <michaelnovakjr__> sold?
Jul 22 12:54:03 <michaelnovakjr__> i'll make those apps for free
Jul 22 12:54:18 <anno^da_> In general not talking about myself.
Jul 22 12:54:42 <anno^da_> People are spending money on every crappy app
Jul 22 12:54:43 <michaelnovakjr__> trust me anything you'll have to pay for will have a free alternative
Jul 22 12:55:30 <anno^da_> That's right but if you look at the ringtone industrie. Everyone could get them for free.
Jul 22 12:55:46 <muthu> michaelnovakjr__: don't make it free
Jul 22 12:55:51 <anno^da_> But what are they doing? - Buying it for 1 euro in a shop :P
Jul 22 12:55:51 <muthu> sell it for 1$
Jul 22 12:55:57 <michaelnovakjr__> screw that muthu
Jul 22 12:56:07 <michaelnovakjr__> i'll make any app free and open source
Jul 22 12:56:13 <muthu> you make it opensource
Jul 22 12:56:14 <anno^da_> :D
Jul 22 12:56:20 <muthu> you also fund yourself
Jul 22 12:56:27 <muthu> opensource need not be charity
Jul 22 12:56:27 <michaelnovakjr__> i don't need to fund myself
Jul 22 12:56:35 <michaelnovakjr__> i have a job
Jul 22 12:56:45 <muthu> ok
Jul 22 12:56:47 <anno^da_> But you cant make the ringtones open source without having the rights to them :p
Jul 22 12:57:02 <michaelnovakjr__> i'm talking about apps
Jul 22 12:57:08 <michaelnovakjr__> ringtones are messy
Jul 22 12:57:09 <anno^da_> :)
Jul 22 12:57:23 <michaelnovakjr__> why muthu you are going to sell that cooking app?
Jul 22 12:57:26 <anno^da_> I know that they are crapp but people buy them.
Jul 22 12:57:52 <muthu> cooking app is not mine
Jul 22 12:57:55 <muthu> i don't control that
Jul 22 12:58:17 <muthu> lets take mobeegal
Jul 22 12:58:24 <muthu> i'll have a free and a paid version
Jul 22 12:58:30 <michaelnovakjr__> why?
Jul 22 12:58:37 <muthu> why earn money?
Jul 22 12:58:50 <muthu> michaelnovakjr__: that's the way the world works
Jul 22 12:58:59 <muthu> you have a free and a $$ version
Jul 22 12:59:03 <muthu> that's a good compromise
Jul 22 12:59:05 <michaelnovakjr__> you do realize that you'll have free competition for everything
Jul 22 12:59:12 <muthu> oh yeah
Jul 22 12:59:14 <muthu> bless them
Jul 22 12:59:33 <michaelnovakjr__> its going to be hard to make money on android with all the free open source software that will be available
Jul 22 12:59:47 <muthu> if people cannot make money out of android..
Jul 22 12:59:51 <muthu> android will be dead!!
Jul 22 12:59:59 <michaelnovakjr__> dude, what are you talking about
Jul 22 13:00:02 <michaelnovakjr__> it won't be dead
Jul 22 13:00:15 <michaelnovakjr__> android itself is free and open source
Jul 22 13:00:48 <muthu> yes, that's the way it should be
Jul 22 13:01:00 <michaelnovakjr__> and so should all of the software
Jul 22 13:01:22 <alex2308> but still people are selling software
Jul 22 13:01:28 <alex2308> like plusminus_ and muthu and me
Jul 22 13:01:30 <alex2308> hehe
Jul 22 13:01:31 <michaelnovakjr__> and it won't work
Jul 22 13:01:41 <michaelnovakjr__> i will personally write competing applications
Jul 22 13:01:45 <alex2308> as muthu said, it works fine with ringtones and other platform
Jul 22 13:01:48 <muthu> there's no free opensource in top 50
Jul 22 13:01:52 <muthu> everyone is selling
Jul 22 13:02:01 <michaelnovakjr__> because you people are greedy
Jul 22 13:02:24 <michaelnovakjr__> trust me when people see a nice free app and yours.... why would they pay?
Jul 22 13:02:42 <alex2308> dunno, why does everyone use ms office and windows?
Jul 22 13:02:48 <alex2308> why do people buy ringtones?
Jul 22 13:02:53 <alex2308> why do people buy wallpapers?
Jul 22 13:02:59 <alex2308> why do people buy games?
Jul 22 13:03:11 <michaelnovakjr__> i am talking about applications
Jul 22 13:03:21 <alex2308> like ms office
Jul 22 13:03:41 <michaelnovakjr__> not everyone uses ms office
Jul 22 13:03:43 <muthu> people are paying
Jul 22 13:03:47 <muthu> look at iphone app store
Jul 22 13:03:56 <michaelnovakjr__> iphone is a piece of shit
Jul 22 13:04:00 <muthu> there's a lot of people who prefer paid apps
Jul 22 13:04:04 <michaelnovakjr__> its closed completely
Jul 22 13:04:12 <michaelnovakjr__> muthu don't be an ass
Jul 22 13:04:20 <muthu> small developers have made 50 to 100k in no time
Jul 22 13:04:24 <muthu> with iphone app store
Jul 22 13:04:26 <michaelnovakjr__> you are getting the pleasure of working on an open source platform
Jul 22 13:04:34 <anno^da_> michaelnovakjr__: But why are you writing closed apps at work ?
Jul 22 13:04:39 <muthu> michaelnovakjr__: you don't understand business
Jul 22 13:04:47 <michaelnovakjr__> muthu, its open source software
Jul 22 13:04:48 <alex2308> anno^da_ because he is greedy
Jul 22 13:04:51 <muthu> you are young.. you'll grow up :)
Jul 22 13:05:04 <alex2308> muthu: same thing i told him yesterday :)
Jul 22 13:05:06 <michaelnovakjr__> muthu, i have never charged for my own software
Jul 22 13:05:20 <michaelnovakjr__> muthu: alex2308 and never will
Jul 22 13:05:29 <muthu> i know.. if you are happy with that
Jul 22 13:05:32 <muthu> great
Jul 22 13:05:39 <michaelnovakjr__> i'll be your competition
Jul 22 13:05:43 <muthu> haha
Jul 22 13:05:49 <anno^da_> michaelnovakjr__: But why are you writting closed apps at work ?
Jul 22 13:05:49 <muthu> how can you compete with everyone?
Jul 22 13:05:59 <michaelnovakjr__> anno^da_: because that is not my choice
Jul 22 13:06:03 <michaelnovakjr__> :)
Jul 22 13:06:16 <anno^da_> I would say because you have to live from something.
Jul 22 13:06:20 <michaelnovakjr__> muthu: i already have a head start with your apps
Jul 22 13:06:38 <anno^da_> And what are the things you live from? Is it love ? :P
Jul 22 13:06:41 <michaelnovakjr__> anno^da_: again, not my choice.... you could easily go and work for a living and program your own stuff on the side
Jul 22 13:07:09 <anno^da_> I would say it is something in the middle between alex2308 and you.
Jul 22 13:07:09 <alex2308> anno^da_ love and peace *flower power*
Jul 22 13:07:42 <michaelnovakjr__> if you want to charge for software go write for the iphone and win mobile
Jul 22 13:07:46 <muthu> life is a balance
Jul 22 13:07:52 <michaelnovakjr__> don't plague android with this bullshit
Jul 22 13:07:56 <muthu> lol
Jul 22 13:08:18 <alex2308> dont buy them if you dont like em
Jul 22 13:08:33 <michaelnovakjr__> i won't, i write my own and release them for free
Jul 22 13:08:35 <alex2308> but leave people selling whatever they like to sell whereever they like to sell it
Jul 22 13:08:59 <michaelnovakjr__> you'd fit right in over in the iphone sector
Jul 22 13:09:01 <alex2308> good luck rewriting every single app that gets released and sold
Jul 22 13:09:15 <michaelnovakjr__> i'm not the only one who's going to be doing that :)
Jul 22 13:09:25 <muthu> haha.. i don't know how michaelnovakjr__ thinks its possible
Jul 22 13:09:30 <michaelnovakjr__> there will be way more free open source software than you think
Jul 22 13:09:36 <alex2308> i really dont care if you do
Jul 22 13:09:41 <muthu> there'll be thousands of apps...
Jul 22 13:09:57 <alex2308> some people will use the free apps, some will buy my apps, i will get money for it, you will get .. nothing. its really ok for me
Jul 22 13:10:54 <michaelnovakjr__> i'll get the apps for my phone
Jul 22 13:11:28 <michaelnovakjr__> alex2308: if you really think android is going to solve your financial problems you are in for some trouble
Jul 22 13:11:40 <muthu> what??
Jul 22 13:12:30 <michaelnovakjr__> i can't imagine what your app would be like since you call yourself a bad programmer that can't even learn objective-c
Jul 22 13:12:30 <alex2308> its just some extra income, i got my main income
Jul 22 13:13:09 <alex2308> dont you worry, i will steal some good code from some open source hippy :)
Jul 22 13:14:15 <muthu> haha
Jul 22 13:14:42 <muthu> michaelnovakjr__: alex2308 is planning to make money out of your free software!
Jul 22 13:15:26 <michaelnovakjr__> you people really are a bunch of fucking greedy assholes
Jul 22 13:15:32 <anno^da_> I would say it has to be something in the middle of both. alex2308s choice is just cheracterless.
Jul 22 13:15:36 <michaelnovakjr__> especially those who use linux
Jul 22 13:16:00 <michaelnovakjr__> oh, i'll use all the free software in the world but charge people for mine
Jul 22 13:16:18 <anno^da_> He is doing something illegal but he doesnt care and that tells us everything about his character.
Jul 22 13:16:25 <alex2308> nice. you start evolving business thinking
Jul 22 13:17:12 <anno^da_> But thats how business works. Selling your character for some money.
Jul 22 13:17:35 <plusminus_> ... interesting conversation ...
Jul 22 13:17:39 <anno^da_> I don't mind if he would work on his own apps and making them closed.
Jul 22 13:18:04 <anno^da_> But stealing (illegally) from other apps hmm yeah thats characterless.
Jul 22 13:18:35 <michaelnovakjr__> i just think selling software on android really defeats its purpose
Jul 22 13:18:48 <michaelnovakjr__> its meant to level the playing field in the cellphone industry
Jul 22 13:19:04 <michaelnovakjr__> like i said want to see software.... win mobile and iphone do it all the time
Jul 22 13:19:27 <michaelnovakjr__> if you can only program in java..... well, thats pretty bad
Jul 22 13:21:57 <plusminus_> shame on everybody that's not able to code objective-C
Jul 22 13:22:56 <plusminus_> you are loosers !
Jul 22 13:23:47 <anno^da_> plusminus_: I don't think thats what he wanted to say. It is just the arrogant view of alex2308 saying "oh well I'm too stupid to do anything so I will steal it"
Jul 22 13:23:50 <michaelnovakjr__> i didn't say that
Jul 22 13:23:57 <michaelnovakjr__> i meant if you can't learn it
Jul 22 13:24:12 <michaelnovakjr__> a language is a language
Jul 22 13:25:18 <plusminus_> sry, i should have read more careful
Jul 22 13:26:03 <alex2308> anno^da_ i didnt say that im too stupid. michael said that. i just countered that in an elegant way :)
Jul 22 13:26:06 <plusminus_> but that was what the last lines sounded like
Jul 22 13:26:18 <michaelnovakjr__> alex2308: you said it yesterday
Jul 22 13:26:47 <michaelnovakjr__> you said you're a bad programmer and that is why you steal open source software and use it in closed source projects
Jul 22 13:27:07 <alex2308> i just dont reinvent the wheel
Jul 22 13:27:14 <michaelnovakjr__> that's bullshit
Jul 22 13:27:30 <michaelnovakjr__> if you use open source code you should re-release that portion
Jul 22 13:28:07 <anno^da_> thats it
Jul 22 13:28:20 <anno^da_> and thats why you dont understand anything about open source software
Jul 22 13:28:54 <anno^da_> If you use open source software thats no problem. BUT you have to give credit to the folks that have written this peace of software. And that is done by the licence.
Jul 22 13:29:03 <michaelnovakjr__> exactly
Jul 22 13:29:21 <alex2308> depending on the license
Jul 22 13:29:30 <anno^da_> Yeah definetly.
Jul 22 13:30:11 <anno^da_> But even under the Apache licence you have to give credit. (you dont have to open source your code but you have to give credit)
Jul 22 13:30:34 <alex2308> i steal only from bsd license
Jul 22 13:31:10 <michaelnovakjr__> i find that hard to believe
Jul 22 13:33:04 <michaelnovakjr__> i can't believe you'd admit you steal from someone
Jul 22 13:33:10 <michaelnovakjr__> you are a complete ass
Jul 22 13:34:07 <gambler> emotion. Interesting to see a free software advocate describe unattributed plagiarism as stealing.
Jul 22 13:34:29 <anno^da_> michaelnovakjr__: people that are offering code under the BSD licence want their code to be used with opensource BUT with closed source software as well. ;)
Jul 22 13:34:32 <michaelnovakjr__> gambler: if you scroll up you'll see he has admitted it
Jul 22 13:34:59 <michaelnovakjr__> anno^da_: credit should be given where credit is due
Jul 22 13:35:34 <anno^da_> Yeah sure. I dont deny that.
Jul 22 13:35:45 <michaelnovakjr__> i know :)
Jul 22 13:36:09 <gambler> I know...But isn't part of the free software movement that thoughts/algorithms/poetry/writing are different from physical goods?
Jul 22 13:36:13 <michaelnovakjr__> i just think one of the best things about android is the open mentality
Jul 22 13:36:53 <michaelnovakjr__> so i don't see the need to mix closed source profit software in the mix
Jul 22 13:37:05 <gambler> Im not condoning license violation or anything just being slightly provocative because the discussion thus far seems wanting...
Jul 22 13:37:05 <michaelnovakjr__> there's plenty of other platforms that do that really good :)
Jul 22 13:37:17 <alex2308> you cant stop people from selling/buying apps
Jul 22 13:37:33 <michaelnovakjr__> nope, but i certainly will provide a free alternative
Jul 22 13:37:46 <michaelnovakjr__> especially to your apps alex2308
Jul 22 13:38:05 <alex2308> ill sell them under a different name them
Jul 22 13:38:08 <gambler> I for one will be GPLing all my libraries....so I can charge proprietary vendors that link to them...bwhahahaha 0wned
Jul 22 13:38:09 <alex2308> :D
Jul 22 13:38:34 <michaelnovakjr__> alex2308: nice try... but it won't work.....
Jul 22 13:40:25 <alex2308> lets go create the android-store. the android counterpart of the app store :)
Jul 22 13:41:34 <alex2308> andstore.net and andstore.org still free
Jul 22 13:41:50 <anno^da_> It will definetly work. :) And there will always be closed source and open source apps side by side. What I don't like about the open source software movement is the ideologic thinking. From my point of view it is all about licencing. And everyone has the choice.
Jul 22 13:42:31 <michaelnovakjr__> i understand anno^da_ but why target android knowing its open source?
Jul 22 13:43:00 <michaelnovakjr__> you aren't writing anything that someone else cant....
Jul 22 13:43:33 <alex2308> what do we care if its open source or not
Jul 22 13:43:38 <alex2308> we are business people
Jul 22 13:43:40 <muthu> michaelnovakjr__: so all the linux apps must be free?
Jul 22 13:43:46 <anno^da_> Because perhaps it will be more open not only from the open source stand point but also from the standpoint of installing apps, removing apps, accessing the internet, developing for the plattform and so on
Jul 22 13:44:19 <michaelnovakjr__> alex2308: you aren't business people. you are a programmer
Jul 22 13:44:33 <michaelnovakjr__> or are you a suit trying to be a programmer>
Jul 22 13:44:48 <michaelnovakjr__> muthu: do you use linux?
Jul 22 13:44:48 <anno^da_> I will sell my music under the creative commons licence but I dont mind if Sony sells their commercial stuff under a closed thing.
Jul 22 13:45:20 <michaelnovakjr__> anno^da_: sure, i don't mind either.... but android itself is an open platform
Jul 22 13:45:31 <michaelnovakjr__> if you want to sell software why not wrie it for another platform?
Jul 22 13:45:51 <michaelnovakjr__> muthu: do you use linux?
Jul 22 13:46:37 <alex2308> we are thinking like business people, btw im plaing on doing my MBA
Jul 22 13:46:52 <anno^da_> I understand your point. Contributing open software to an open plattform.
Jul 22 13:47:05 <michaelnovakjr__> that is my point...
Jul 22 13:47:09 <yakischloba> Open doesn't mean you can't make any money
Jul 22 13:47:15 <michaelnovakjr__> if it wasn't an open platform i wouldn't care as much
Jul 22 13:47:24 <muthu> linux is a great example
Jul 22 13:47:29 <muthu> where people make tons of money
Jul 22 13:47:32 <anno^da_> Yeah definetly yakischloba .
Jul 22 13:47:34 <michaelnovakjr__> muthu do you use linunx?
Jul 22 13:47:44 <yakischloba> you can offer a subscription-based component, etc
Jul 22 13:47:48 <michaelnovakjr__> ye
Jul 22 13:47:48 <michaelnovakjr__> s
Jul 22 13:47:55 <michaelnovakjr__> but you should open up your system
Jul 22 13:48:24 <michaelnovakjr__> subscriptions are different, those usually require maintenance on some servers....
Jul 22 13:48:42 <alex2308> some people really dont like the idea of opening their system
Jul 22 13:48:50 <alex2308> or giving away their code
Jul 22 13:48:55 <alex2308> or giving it away for free
Jul 22 13:49:07 <anno^da_> I like the licencing of the following book. ( http://commonsware.com/Android/index.html ) It has a closed licence but after selling 4000 books it will be creative commons. Thats fine for me.
Jul 22 13:49:12 <michaelnovakjr__> so why are they using an open platform alex2308?
Jul 22 13:49:13 <yakischloba> Its not like everyone that releases an open source app is going to get it stolen
Jul 22 13:49:28 <yakischloba> Pretty sure you can still go and sell your app in an app store if its open source?
Jul 22 13:49:45 <michaelnovakjr__> yes, under certain licenses yes
Jul 22 13:49:51 <michaelnovakjr__> but its still open
Jul 22 13:49:53 <alex2308> michaelnovakjr__ just because its licesing model is easy
Jul 22 13:50:07 <yakischloba> Its pretty unlikely that someone is just going to cruise the app store and heist your code and re-brand it
Jul 22 13:50:17 <michaelnovakjr__> so you'll reap the benefits and turn around and say f u to the community
Jul 22 13:50:24 <yakischloba> If your app was there first, and its better, why would anyone go with the fraud?
Jul 22 13:50:26 <michaelnovakjr__> yakischloba: alex2308 would
Jul 22 13:50:35 <michaelnovakjr__> he stated that is what he does
Jul 22 13:50:54 <yakischloba> yeah but hes obviously no good at putting out apps
Jul 22 13:51:05 <yakischloba> so his rip-offs will suck theoretically right?
Jul 22 13:51:11 <michaelnovakjr__> true
Jul 22 13:51:19 <yakischloba> and he doesn't care about them, so he probably won't offer updates etc
Jul 22 13:51:39 <muthu> open or closed
Jul 22 13:51:41 <muthu> the best will win
Jul 22 13:52:07 <yakischloba> if he ripped off my app and stole 5% of my sales for a month it wouldn't really be a big deal IMO. Not to say that I agree with what hes doing.
Jul 22 13:52:08 <michaelnovakjr__> muthu you didn't answer my question....... do you use linux?
Jul 22 13:52:13 <alex2308> the thing isnt that we dont understand open source, the point is that michael doesnt understand closed source/selling apps
Jul 22 13:52:21 <muthu> michaelnovakjr__: me using linux, the whole world knows ;)
Jul 22 13:52:22 <anno^da_> muthu: thats right.
Jul 22 13:52:29 <michaelnovakjr__> muthu, i don't.....
Jul 22 13:52:43 <muthu> f8
Jul 22 13:52:46 <anno^da_> It will win for the business standpoint at the beginning.
Jul 22 13:52:52 <michaelnovakjr__> do you pay for any software on that machine?
Jul 22 13:52:56 <muthu> michaelnovakjr__: we have had this linux talk before, you forgot!
Jul 22 13:53:00 <anno^da_> But in the end the open source systems will be better.
Jul 22 13:53:26 <muthu> i'm all for open source btw
Jul 22 13:53:30 <alex2308> do you know why companies dont use open source?
Jul 22 13:53:36 <muthu> that doesn't mean you should not be paid
Jul 22 13:53:53 <michaelnovakjr__> do you donate to open source then muthu?
Jul 22 13:54:14 <yakischloba> alex2308: because they're fucking greedy like you ;)
Jul 22 13:54:34 <anno^da_> Oh I've worked for the Deutsche Telekom and had to deal with crappy InternetExplorer and crappy windows. (even with crappy Outlook) So I dont understand why they are using that crap.
Jul 22 13:54:57 <michaelnovakjr__> anno^da_: lots of places are getting away from it
Jul 22 13:55:06 <anno^da_> I know that and it is a good thing.
Jul 22 13:55:14 <michaelnovakjr__> muthu, you don't like answering my questions huh?
Jul 22 13:55:19 <muthu> haha
Jul 22 13:55:25 <anno^da_> Even our small village is porting to Linux.
Jul 22 13:55:33 <michaelnovakjr__> absolutely
Jul 22 13:55:39 <muthu> michaelnovakjr__: you just don't understand the different business models
Jul 22 13:55:43 <muthu> all of them can co exist
Jul 22 13:55:58 <michaelnovakjr__> muthu, so do you donate to open source that you use since you believe you should be paid for the software?
Jul 22 13:55:59 <alex2308> anno^da_ we still use that crappy IE hahaha
Jul 22 13:56:21 <anno^da_> alex2308: I know that and it is something I really laugh about.
Jul 22 13:56:36 <alex2308> most people installed firefox portable
Jul 22 13:56:42 <anno^da_> Using that non standard crap is something I will never understand.
Jul 22 13:57:10 <anno^da_> Sure you can install that but the standard is holly IE.
Jul 22 13:57:30 <muthu> open source exists to be reused
Jul 22 13:57:39 <alex2308> IE6 (!) :D
Jul 22 13:57:47 <anno^da_> :p
Jul 22 13:58:09 <alex2308> but outlook is great, i really like it
Jul 22 13:58:35 <michaelnovakjr__> wow muthu you are quiet when asked questions you can't answer huh?
Jul 22 13:58:41 <anno^da_> But I have to agree with muthu there are different models and they are ok if the respect licences.
Jul 22 13:58:50 <anno^da_> if they ...
Jul 22 13:59:26 <michaelnovakjr__> the problem with muthu's theory is that he said he uses open source software but thinks that you should be paid for it.....
Jul 22 13:59:31 <anno^da_> Open source software is NOT about being paid or not paid.
Jul 22 13:59:38 <michaelnovakjr__> if that is the case muthu must have donated to some project before right?
Jul 22 13:59:52 <michaelnovakjr__> anno^da_: i'm quoting what muthu said
Jul 22 13:59:59 <muthu> woah!
Jul 22 14:00:07 <muthu> i'm not against open/free software
Jul 22 14:00:12 <michaelnovakjr__> so based on that response it would make sense he's donated before right?
Jul 22 14:00:13 <muthu> and i'm also not against commercial software
Jul 22 14:00:34 <michaelnovakjr__> muthu you said open source software should be paid for..... so have you donated to any before?
Jul 22 14:01:04 <muthu> michaelnovakjr__:  there's commercial open source software, do you know that?
Jul 22 14:01:12 <michaelnovakjr__> yes
Jul 22 14:01:14 <muthu> and people are getting paid to develop such open source software
Jul 22 14:01:29 <michaelnovakjr__> examples....... muthu?
Jul 22 14:01:38 <michaelnovakjr__> which are you referring to?
Jul 22 14:01:48 <muthu> there's many
Jul 22 14:02:14 <michaelnovakjr__> do you have an example that comes to mind?
Jul 22 14:02:17 <alex2308> why not start a poll. who will be writing free/opensource/commercial/... software?
Jul 22 14:02:45 <alex2308> michaelnovakjr__ the OO team gets paid
Jul 22 14:03:02 <michaelnovakjr__> is OO free and open?
Jul 22 14:03:10 <muthu> look at all the commercial linux distros
Jul 22 14:03:27 <michaelnovakjr__> muthu, there's atleast one freely available for every distro
Jul 22 14:03:40 <muthu> yeah, that's the point
Jul 22 14:03:43 <muthu> they can co-exist
Jul 22 14:03:58 <michaelnovakjr__> i didn't say they couldn't, but the point is they are OPEN
Jul 22 14:04:05 <michaelnovakjr__> OPEN and FREE are different terms
Jul 22 14:04:06 <muthu> yes
Jul 22 14:04:11 <muthu> open + free
Jul 22 14:04:17 <muthu> open + commercial\
Jul 22 14:04:22 <muthu> closed + free
Jul 22 14:04:26 <muthu> closed + commercial
Jul 22 14:04:56 <michaelnovakjr__> muthu, the point is that the open and free model will certainly be big on android..... so why not join the effort
Jul 22 14:05:39 <muthu> you have something going on?
Jul 22 14:06:15 <michaelnovakjr__> ?
Jul 22 14:06:20 <michaelnovakjr__> what do you mean?
Jul 22 14:06:46 <muthu> i mean, a specific open and free android project somewhere?
Jul 22 14:07:03 <alex2308> there goes my poll: http://www.anddev.org/viewtopic.php?p=9419
Jul 22 14:07:05 <michaelnovakjr__> androidnerds.com will be a bunch of free and open source software
Jul 22 14:07:41 <alex2308> andstore.org will be a bunch of commercial software
Jul 22 14:08:07 <michaelnovakjr__> .org huh
Jul 22 14:08:13 <yakischloba> hah
Jul 22 14:08:19 <michaelnovakjr__> what an ass
Jul 22 14:08:22 <yakischloba> deception at every corner with this guy
Jul 22 14:09:11 <muthu> is androidstore available?
Jul 22 14:09:17 <muthu> that's a good domain to book
Jul 22 14:09:29 <alex2308> .com is gone
Jul 22 14:09:32 <alex2308> unfortunatelly
Jul 22 14:09:40 <alex2308> androidnerds.org is still free thoug
Jul 22 14:09:47 <muthu> yeah, everything would be taken
Jul 22 14:09:49 <michaelnovakjr__> i'm hoping that enough people will be interested in the androidnerds.com model and will join up
Jul 22 14:10:02 <muthu> michaelnovakjr__: yeah, why not?
Jul 22 14:10:28 <plusminus_> what is the androidnerds.com model ?
Jul 22 14:10:34 <plusminus_> is the page yours ?
Jul 22 14:10:43 <michaelnovakjr__> yes
Jul 22 14:10:47 <muthu> michaelnovakjr__: will have ads on them!!
Jul 22 14:11:05 <alex2308> its the "bomb dropping model" - drop your app there and get nothing in return
Jul 22 14:11:18 <plusminus_> maybe you should start working on it ... right now ? Instead of blaming others...
Jul 22 14:11:29 <plusminus_> alex2308: :-D
Jul 22 14:11:30 <michaelnovakjr__> i am working on it
Jul 22 14:12:17 <michaelnovakjr__> muthu i won't have ads
Jul 22 14:12:39 <michaelnovakjr__> plusminus_: i have been working on it
Jul 22 14:12:47 <plusminus_> if you weren't using some of the words you recently used, I'd say you are a saint.
Jul 22 14:13:00 <michaelnovakjr__> what do you mean by saint?
Jul 22 14:13:21 <plusminus_> the perfect person
Jul 22 14:13:24 <alex2308> a priest
Jul 22 14:13:28 <plusminus_> yep
Jul 22 14:13:33 <michaelnovakjr__> its not about being perfect
Jul 22 14:13:34 <alex2308> or another holy person
Jul 22 14:13:39 <michaelnovakjr__> its about supporting what you use
Jul 22 14:13:50 <alex2308> ms windows?
Jul 22 14:14:06 <plusminus_> michaelnovakjr__: What do you think about MS Vista ?
Jul 22 14:14:07 <michaelnovakjr__> if you use it most pay for it :)
Jul 22 14:14:16 <michaelnovakjr__> i have a machine with it at work
Jul 22 14:14:39 <michaelnovakjr__> and i paid for it
Jul 22 14:14:42 <plusminus_> but what do you think of it?
Jul 22 14:14:50 <michaelnovakjr__> its not the greatest thing in the world
Jul 22 14:15:04 <michaelnovakjr__> i find it less user friendly that XP
Jul 22 14:15:32 <plusminus_> i think its so much better
Jul 22 14:15:58 <michaelnovakjr__> yea?
Jul 22 14:16:03 <michaelnovakjr__> what do you like about?
Jul 22 14:16:18 <plusminus_> I got it on my laptop and it crashed only ~ 4-5 times, because ASUS released no Graphics-Driver for my machine (had XP before)
Jul 22 14:17:00 <alex2308> its much more secure, but has lots of bugs
Jul 22 14:17:01 <michaelnovakjr__> yea, a few companies aren't making XP drivers though...... only Vista.... i know someone who couldn't go back because no XP drivers were available
Jul 22 14:17:45 <gambler> I have 2 vista licenses and 1 XP license here im not using which is criminal since I just paid for XP MCE. And even more criminal that XBMC is a superior free app
Jul 22 14:18:13 <plusminus_> argh I want the Android-Debugger work !!
Jul 22 14:18:15 <gambler> vista is the biggest pile of steaming crap i have ever seen
Jul 22 14:18:21 <michaelnovakjr__> plusminus_: do you use linux?
Jul 22 14:18:30 <muthu> plusminus_: the debugger not working?
Jul 22 14:18:44 <plusminus_> from time to time :(
Jul 22 14:18:49 <plusminus_> @both ;)
Jul 22 14:19:32 <plusminus_> michaelnovakjr__: Let me give you an example why I don't like it.
Jul 22 14:19:48 <plusminus_> Programs do fucking what they want.
Jul 22 14:19:58 <michaelnovakjr__> on linux you mean?
Jul 22 14:20:04 <michaelnovakjr__> or windows?
Jul 22 14:20:13 <plusminus_> i.e. 'nano' you save a file with "STRG+O" ...... WTF !!!?!?!?
Jul 22 14:21:06 <michaelnovakjr__> that's nano though :)
Jul 22 14:21:13 <michaelnovakjr__> there's gedit
Jul 22 14:21:41 <alex2308> there's vim
Jul 22 14:21:56 <plusminus_> there's vi
Jul 22 14:22:06 <plusminus_> its like beng raped, imo
Jul 22 14:22:17 <plusminus_> being
Jul 22 14:22:27 <michaelnovakjr__> those are older apps though.... there's quite a few nice editors
Jul 22 14:22:47 <alex2308> my linux crashed more often than my vista and xp together. but i dont blame it. im much more experienced with windows than linux. guess its my fault.
Jul 22 14:23:22 <plusminus_> muthu: I often have to kill adb.exe to get the debugger and LogCat back working :(
Jul 22 14:23:44 <michaelnovakjr__> i have had that problem on windows before plusminus_
Jul 22 14:23:57 <michaelnovakjr__> when i was using eclipse that is
Jul 22 14:24:05 <michaelnovakjr__> i don't use eclipse anymore
Jul 22 14:24:20 <plusminus_> ?
Jul 22 14:24:21 <muthu> plusminus_: hmm, might be buggy
Jul 22 14:24:37 <plusminus_> waiting for the debugger to attach....................................
Jul 22 14:24:49 <michaelnovakjr__> yea. i had that problem
Jul 22 14:25:32 <plusminus_> michaelnovakjr__: Back to the Open/Closed question..:
Jul 22 14:25:46 <plusminus_> I'd like to open my source so others cna learn from it, but
Jul 22 14:26:10 <gambler> I have a question for the experts on this channel...does anyone know of a server software like DNS but for non-DNS records? { eg. features caching, global-namespace, scalable } (no DNS TXT entries won't do)
Jul 22 14:26:17 <plusminus_> I don't like to see them copying my code and profiting from it not even leayving an attribution
Jul 22 14:26:34 <muthu> plusminus_: i can bet, that all of the 1788 apps benefitted from anddev.org
Jul 22 14:26:56 <alex2308> gambler a proxy?
Jul 22 14:27:23 <michaelnovakjr__> plusminus_: look at jasta's app....
Jul 22 14:27:27 <michaelnovakjr__> that's open source
Jul 22 14:27:34 <michaelnovakjr__> and quite a nice app
Jul 22 14:27:35 <plusminus_> I should add a "If you use any of the code on anddev, you agree to the 'ALL YOUR CODE BELONGS to PLUSMINUS'-License" to the Page-Footer
Jul 22 14:27:36 <muthu> michaelnovakjr__: why then you are not joing jasta app?
Jul 22 14:27:38 <gambler> alex2308, an actual server
Jul 22 14:27:52 <michaelnovakjr__> muthu what do you mean?
Jul 22 14:27:52 <plusminus_> which is jastas app ?
Jul 22 14:28:02 <alex2308> its an mp3 player
Jul 22 14:28:04 <gambler> alex2308, do you get where im coming from
Jul 22 14:28:06 <plusminus_> five ?
Jul 22 14:28:19 <muthu> yes
Jul 22 14:28:23 <michaelnovakjr__> yes
Jul 22 14:28:37 <alex2308> gambler no
Jul 22 14:28:41 <michaelnovakjr__> and muthu, i plan on joining on it when its reasonable to develop again
Jul 22 14:28:52 <michaelnovakjr__> right now i am writing hack apps for android on the vogue
Jul 22 14:29:30 <plusminus_> "hack apps" ?
Jul 22 14:30:16 <alex2308> he is trying to get android running on the htc vogue
Jul 22 14:30:22 <gambler> alex2308, GET com.sun.java.StringTemplate->Methods (returns list of StringTemplate Methods)...I know this doesnt exist. Im looking for existing software to implement something like this.
Jul 22 14:30:52 <alex2308> gambler no idea, sry
Jul 22 14:31:26 <michaelnovakjr__> plusminus_: android runs on a vogue.... so i'm writing a few apps to play around with on it
Jul 22 14:31:27 <plusminus_> alex2308: thx
Jul 22 14:31:36 <michaelnovakjr__> nothing too crazy
Jul 22 14:31:58 <plusminus_> do you have m5 running?
Jul 22 14:32:01 <plusminus_> or m3 ?
Jul 22 14:33:14 <alex2308> i think its m5 running on the vogue
Jul 22 14:33:30 <alex2308> but its not running of the rom, its inside an emulator called haret
Jul 22 14:34:07 <michaelnovakjr__> m5
Jul 22 14:34:25 <michaelnovakjr__> it has data, phone, browser and sms working
Jul 22 14:34:38 <michaelnovakjr__> http://it029000.massey.ac.nz/vogue/
Jul 22 14:34:47 <michaelnovakjr__> that's the page for the guy who made it happen
Jul 22 14:34:58 <plusminus_> what about gps ?
Jul 22 14:35:03 <alex2308> it doesnt work for my htc touch diamond :/
Jul 22 14:35:07 <michaelnovakjr__> i haven't tried it
Jul 22 14:35:23 <michaelnovakjr__> i'll be back in a bit
Jul 22 14:35:25 <alex2308> did someone write an email app?
Jul 22 14:35:33 <michaelnovakjr__> alex2308: i'm writing one
Jul 22 14:35:44 <michaelnovakjr__> and a slightly more functional sms app
Jul 22 14:35:56 <plusminus_> more functional than ?
Jul 22 14:35:56 <alex2308> nice
Jul 22 14:36:09 <michaelnovakjr__> plusminus_: the one thats on the image for vogue
Jul 22 14:36:32 <michaelnovakjr__> the guy who got it running wrote a really simple sms app to send and receive....
Jul 22 14:36:33 <plusminus_> I started a SMS-Compression app but stopped as I saw that the SMS-Tables are not accessible o_O
Jul 22 14:36:56 <michaelnovakjr__> plusminus_: there will definitely be a standard one when android's released
Jul 22 14:37:10 <michaelnovakjr__> i'm writing one to make sms easier while playing around on the vogue
Jul 22 14:37:24 <plusminus_> yes but as thers no newer SDK we cannot know.
Jul 22 14:37:45 <muthu> when's the next sdk?
Jul 22 14:38:25 <plusminus_> 2010 maybe
Jul 22 14:38:32 <plusminus_> ;)
Jul 22 14:38:42 <alex2308> i might get hands on the current sdk :)
Jul 22 14:39:13 <muthu> the petition has garnered some votes
Jul 22 14:39:18 <plusminus_> O_O     you live in darmstadt, right? where exaclty :-D
Jul 22 14:39:35 <plusminus_> muthu: 128 already
Jul 22 14:39:57 <plusminus_> not even spammers... lol
Jul 22 14:41:02 <alex2308> i life in frankfurt, i work in darmstadt
Jul 22 14:41:08 <alex2308> t-online allee
Jul 22 14:41:32 <alex2308> but i think i cant talk about it. its a t-mobile internal
Jul 22 14:41:50 <spykid> Haha alex2308 now you have a lot of new friends :D
Jul 22 14:42:04 <alex2308> i dont get it?
Jul 22 14:42:15 <muthu> alex2308: you have new sdk?
Jul 22 14:42:23 <alex2308> no
Jul 22 14:42:40 <muthu> what's tmobile internal?
Jul 22 14:43:19 <plusminus_> he works for them and might be able to work with it, as T-Mobile is on the OHA, right?
Jul 22 14:43:22 <alex2308> internal, meaning i cant/wont talk about it
Jul 22 14:43:27 <spykid> T-Mobile is a OHA member and when they prepare the rollout...
Jul 22 14:43:29 <alex2308> right plusminus_
Jul 22 14:43:39 <muthu> oh, i didn't know that
Jul 22 14:43:50 <plusminus_> you might accidentially send a copy to me...
Jul 22 14:43:52 <muthu> i mean, alex2308 working for tmobile
Jul 22 14:44:13 <plusminus_> just like the " 	  Final SDK build available (84853) deadline extended to Tuesday, August 5  "-Mistake :-D
Jul 22 14:44:27 <alex2308> lol sure
Jul 22 14:44:45 <NiZoX> wtf ? final SDK ?
Jul 22 14:44:48 <spykid> plusminus_: I think we will get hands on it in the next 6 weeks
Jul 22 14:45:02 <muthu> alex2308: if i have an app, can you put it on tmobile store?
Jul 22 14:45:16 <alex2308> lol no
Jul 22 14:45:32 <alex2308> damnit, i should come back with different nick or else i will get spammed
Jul 22 14:45:41 <plusminus_> "in the next 6 weeks" so its been ~ 6months :(
Jul 22 14:45:46 <spykid> alex2308: Lot of new friends
Jul 22 14:45:47 <plusminus_> sorry, but thats really poor
Jul 22 14:45:52 <alex2308> spykid now i get it
Jul 22 14:46:15 <spykid> plusminus_: Grow up
Jul 22 14:46:21 <muthu> cool.. i'll go with google store then ;)
Jul 22 14:46:23 <plusminus_> ?
Jul 22 14:46:42 <alex2308> what about androidnerds.org ?
Jul 22 14:47:10 <muthu> what's special about it?
Jul 22 14:47:22 <alex2308> nothing
Jul 22 14:48:09 <muthu> then what's the use?
Jul 22 14:48:52 <alex2308> nevermind
Jul 22 14:49:19 <muthu> haha
Jul 22 14:56:57 <jasta> yawn
Jul 22 14:58:00 <alex2308> I have a lot of experience with the whole computer thing you know, emails, sending emails, receiving emails, deleting emails, I could go on.
Jul 22 14:59:37 <spykid> It crowd
Jul 22 15:01:02 <alex2308> best
Jul 22 15:02:11 <alex2308> im off
Jul 22 15:02:28 <alex2308> l8er closed source dudez
Jul 22 15:02:38 <alex2308> l8er open source dudez, too
Jul 22 15:03:21 <jasta> "l8er"?  "dudez"?
Jul 22 15:03:30 * jasta rolls his eyes
Jul 22 15:03:45 <anno^da_> haha jasta I was starting to write the same
Jul 22 15:03:59 <spykid> He's german and cool ;)
Jul 22 15:05:00 <anno^da_> german yeah :). But even more he is a troll.
Jul 22 15:05:42 <jasta> spykid: what has he done that's cool?
Jul 22 15:07:42 <spykid> jasta: He thinks talking like this is acting cool
Jul 22 15:07:55 <muthu> he works for tmobile
Jul 22 15:07:58 <muthu> and thinks he's cool
Jul 22 15:08:15 <jasta> does he work at a kiosk? :)
Jul 22 15:08:49 <muthu> lol
Jul 22 15:08:58 <muthu> guess he runs androidnerds
Jul 22 15:09:15 <jasta> whats that?>
Jul 22 15:09:27 <muthu> not another android site ;)
Jul 22 15:09:56 <jasta> Running and Android news site must be real easy anyway.  There hasn't been any news on the platform like, ever.
Jul 22 15:12:29 <jasta> i can recap the last 9 months pretty easily: Android announced; shortly after SDK released.  Android challenge announced.  M5 SDK update.  Android challenge winners selected.  Launch date confirmed at Q4 2008.
Jul 22 15:12:48 <muthu> http://yooryoo.com/2008/07/the-rumors-were-true-the-gphone-revealed/
Jul 22 15:12:49 <anno^da_> You forgot the IO
Jul 22 15:12:50 <anno^da_> :)
Jul 22 15:13:08 <jasta> Was I/O newsworthy?
Jul 22 15:13:23 <anno^da_> Hmm ok.
Jul 22 15:13:24 <anno^da_> :)
Jul 22 15:13:36 <anno^da_> For the developers it was kind of newsworthy.
Jul 22 15:13:59 <anno^da_> But ok for the normal folks it want. But even the SDK is not important for the normal folks.
Jul 22 15:14:02 <jasta> I'm a developer, and I don't agree :)
Jul 22 15:14:09 <jasta> It was fun, but not newsworthy :)
Jul 22 15:14:18 <anno^da_> :)
Jul 22 15:14:32 <anno^da_> ok I wont argue with you in that point :D
Jul 22 15:14:33 <jasta> We got to see a device running briefly, which was nice.  But actually, it didn't look much different than when we got to see that on the initial YouTube videos.
Jul 22 15:15:02 <jasta> I am certain I/O was much more productive for engineers interested in other products.  Not Android. :)
Jul 22 15:15:51 <anno^da_> Yeah but the conference talks about Dalvik was for example interesting for me. There was nothing about it in the docs. (and I'm no real developer :) )
Jul 22 15:15:51 <jasta> The appropriate response from a massive developer conference would have been details on the developing platform, the SDK, launch, etc.
Jul 22 15:16:28 <jasta> anno^da_: The Dalvik talk revealed nothing useful that a seasoned developer wouldn't already know.
Jul 22 15:16:57 <anno^da_> Yeah for you but not for a non seasoned developer :)
Jul 22 15:17:57 <jasta> True, it was catering to a different audience.
Jul 22 15:18:08 <anno^da_> Yeah thats what I meant.
Jul 22 15:18:13 <jasta> Well, I still had a positive feeling leaving the conference.
Jul 22 15:18:20 <jasta> So I guess I won't knock it any more :)
Jul 22 15:22:04 <anno^da_> I'm just here feeding michaelnovakjr__ and you with new application ideas. :) (thinking again about a remote for my Squeezecenter :D)
Jul 22 15:44:16 <jasta> doesn't work that way.
Jul 22 15:44:44 <jasta> a lot of folks make that mistake, but generally, the appeal of open source is working on your OWN ideas.  that's what makes it different from a day job.
Jul 22 15:44:57 <anno^da_> I'm trying that at the moment. ;)
Jul 22 15:45:22 <anno^da_> And it is a lot of fun even if I#m not that good in programming.
Jul 22 15:46:13 <anno^da_> Perhaps being not that good in programming was a reason why the IO was interesting to me
Jul 22 15:46:26 <anno^da_> (the videos of the IO)
Jul 22 15:48:44 <anno^da_> And thats the reason why I will write my own remote app and michaelnovakjr__ can use it and hate it for not being that perfect. :-D
Jul 22 15:49:28 <anno^da_> But even as a non programmer you can attribute other things like docs or comments on the UI or usability things.
Jul 22 16:25:29 <jasta> yawn
Jul 22 16:26:13 <anno^da_> Oh cdbaby is offering mp3 downloads. Now they have to switch to FLAC and everything is perfect. :)
Jul 22 16:29:49 * jasta jams to the FOALS as he gets ready for work
Jul 22 16:31:24 * anno^da jams to UPROOT his latest catch at cdbaby
Jul 22 16:37:41 <jasta> michaelnovakjr__: let's go ahead and try to get a log of Five crashing.
Jul 22 16:37:44 <jasta> will you be around?
Jul 22 17:30:09 <michaelnovakjr__> anno^da: why would i hate it?
Jul 22 17:51:51 <zhobbs_> this is a very important app that we'll need for android:
Jul 22 17:51:51 <zhobbs_> http://www.newlaunches.com/archives/ibeer_gets_the_lager_on_the_iphone.php
Jul 22 17:54:25 <sayers> zhobbs, hahaha
Jul 22 17:54:34 <sayers> I'm currently developing basic GUI apps ;S
Jul 22 17:57:15 <zhobbs_> sayers: ahh, so you're learning android?
Jul 22 17:57:26 <sayers> yep
Jul 22 17:57:28 <sayers> I love it!
Jul 22 17:57:33 <sayers> I just started and it's a very nice SDK
Jul 22 17:57:47 <sayers> Almost finished porting one of my old java applications to it
Jul 22 17:58:44 <zhobbs_> sounds good
Jul 22 17:58:55 <zhobbs_> it is a cool SDK...just can't wait for the phones
Jul 22 17:59:19 <sayers> zhobbs_, what phones will use it?
Jul 22 17:59:56 <zhobbs_> well, HTC, Samsung, and Motorolla are all in the OHA
Jul 22 18:00:04 <zhobbs_> the rumor is that HTC will be the first to market
Jul 22 18:00:36 <sayers> hm
Jul 22 18:00:43 <sayers> the HTC looks like android's emu
Jul 22 18:00:43 <plusminus_> zhobbs I'm just thinking of how they made iBeer... is the "beer" a video or what...
Jul 22 18:00:56 <sayers> plusminus_, probably a graphic that uses accelermoters
Jul 22 18:01:01 <sayers> or that'd be the coolest
Jul 22 18:01:08 <romainguy___> plusminus_: it doesn't look that good when you play that "game" :)
Jul 22 18:01:13 <sayers> would require a lot of liquid physics
Jul 22 18:01:50 <zhobbs_> plusminus_: I was wondering the same thing, would be hard to make one that really looked good
Jul 22 18:02:26 <zhobbs_> romainguy___: any apps in the app store impress you?
Jul 22 18:03:22 <zhobbs_> I wish I had an iphone...was hoping to snatch up a cheap first gen model...but they're still expensive
Jul 22 18:03:33 <sayers> Why would you want one
Jul 22 18:03:51 <sayers> SWEET OMG MY APP WORKS
Jul 22 18:03:55 * sayers is so happy!
Jul 22 18:04:26 <zhobbs_> congrats :)
Jul 22 18:04:40 <zhobbs_> get it ready for ADC II
Jul 22 18:04:51 <sayers> ?
Jul 22 18:05:14 <zhobbs_> sayers:  http://code.google.com/android/adc.html
Jul 22 18:05:15 <sayers> I need to change the content panel it's in to scroll view
Jul 22 18:05:52 <sayers> zhobbs_, If you knew what the application was :)
Jul 22 18:05:58 <zhobbs_> google is giving away $5 M for ADC I, and another $5 M for ADC II sometime in '09
Jul 22 18:06:02 <zhobbs_> ha, what is it?
Jul 22 18:06:06 <sayers> It
Jul 22 18:06:11 <sayers> here let me get my description
Jul 22 18:07:50 <sayers> zhobbs_, it's called rate a girl and here is the descp. "Rate a girl is a fun little Teen Linux Lounge project which is meant to make describing the qualities of said girl a lot easier, it works by taking input and sending a integer as output. That output can be compared to see who is the best."
Jul 22 18:08:26 <anno^da> michaelnovakjr__: Well I'm not really good in programming so the remote could be very crappy at the beginning. But I'm doing my best. And it will be open source. :)
Jul 22 18:08:54 <zhobbs_> sayers: hah, is it like hotornot.com or something?
Jul 22 18:09:54 <sayers> zhobbs_, no it's for when you are around friends trying to rate how decent a girl is worth dating or not perhaps, and instead of taking a few minutes describing all their feats you can just use Rate a Girl and tell them the output.
Jul 22 18:10:25 <AttractiveApe> That's kind of simple :/
Jul 22 18:10:39 <zhobbs_> seems simple enough
Jul 22 18:10:44 <sayers> Yep
Jul 22 18:10:59 <sayers> It took me 2 hours to figure out the API and get it into code form on the phone
Jul 22 18:11:09 <sayers> So I say the api is very nice.
Jul 22 18:14:14 <zhobbs_> Carrier's worst fears: "With AIM available in the iPhone's App Store, you can now send and receive SMS messages without paying for a plan or individual messages. First, download AIM onto your iPhone, then start it up. If you want to send a text message to (617) 555-1212, just send a new IM to +16175551212. You should receive a confirmation message from AOL saying your message has been sent, and the user can reply and you'll receive it on your phone as
Jul 22 18:17:26 <yakischloba> I saw that too a couple days ago. Thats absurd. They're worried that people with $50+ data plans are going to drop their $5 SMS plan? What a joke
Jul 22 18:18:03 <yakischloba> or are iPhone plans somehow different than normal data and SMS plans?
Jul 22 18:31:02 <sayers> yakischloba, hahaha
Jul 22 18:31:06 <sayers> every penny counts to them
Jul 22 18:31:28 <AttractiveApe> arpu must go up.  average revenue per unit.
Jul 22 18:31:48 <yakischloba> Meet a girl at a bar: "Hey uhh so heres my phone number but you'll have to hit me up on AIM if you want to txt"
Jul 22 18:32:42 <sayers> haha
Jul 22 18:32:51 <yakischloba> I dropped my data plan because my MotoQ sucks IMO but it'll be a long time before I drop SMS.
Jul 22 18:33:14 <sayers> SMS is very popular
Jul 22 18:33:34 <sayers> I perfer to not talk to people I know at all but
Jul 22 18:33:35 <yakischloba> Yeah. and if they think people are going to stop using it to haggle around with AIM they're crazy.
Jul 22 18:34:14 <yakischloba> Maybe I'd use AIM to talk to the 5 or 10 people I know with smartphones
Jul 22 18:34:27 <yakischloba> and then I'd still need SMS for the rest of the world
Jul 22 18:34:34 <AttractiveApe> I'd rather just get free unlimited texting.
Jul 22 18:34:41 <sayers> I'd use AIM to talk to people I usually talk to
Jul 22 18:44:54 <jasta> yawn
Jul 22 18:46:39 <f00f-> ditto that
Jul 22 18:47:12 <sayers> How do I do the long notification shown in the api demos?
Jul 22 18:47:47 <romainguy___> look at the source code of the ApiDemos :)
Jul 22 18:47:49 <jasta> what long notification?
Jul 22 18:47:51 <romainguy___> There's a constant for that
Jul 22 18:47:53 <sayers> which is where romainguy
Jul 22 18:48:00 <jasta> sayers: it's distributed with the SDK
Jul 22 18:48:02 <romainguy___> in the SDK
Jul 22 18:48:24 <sayers> Ah!
Jul 22 18:48:25 <jasta> sayers: i think you're referring to Toast's btw.  just look them up as romain said.
Jul 22 18:48:26 <sayers> thanks
Jul 22 18:48:31 <f00f-> Toast.LONG or osmehting
Jul 22 18:49:58 <jasta> michaelnovakjr__: did you get that log?
Jul 22 18:50:07 <sayers> Why name it toast...
Jul 22 18:50:45 <jasta> like in mortal kombat? :)
Jul 22 18:51:07 <zhobbs_> sayers: cause it "pops up" I think
Jul 22 18:52:10 <sayers> I have no idea what the resID for toast is
Jul 22 18:53:41 <jasta> sayers: when you see a res ID like that, it is likely a convenience for the system to lookup a string resource from strings.xml
Jul 22 18:54:02 <jasta> you need not use that convenience, but do realize that placing your strings in strings.xml does make it possible to localize your app.
Jul 22 18:54:07 <jasta> whereas hardcoding them in the application does not.
Jul 22 18:54:19 <sayers> jasta, ah, so I could enter null
Jul 22 18:54:26 <sayers> O my gosh! I don't have to restart android each test.
Jul 22 18:54:32 <jasta> sayers: there are multiple methods in Toast.makeText
Jul 22 18:54:35 <jasta> look at them all.
Jul 22 18:54:55 <jasta> and read the documentation, please.
Jul 22 18:55:35 <plusminus_> bye
Jul 22 18:58:30 <sayers> jasta, well on a less negative "read the doc == boring :) " note I got the toast to show up.
Jul 22 18:59:07 <jasta> sayers: Talking to you will get very boring for me if you don't read them, though.
Jul 22 18:59:38 <sayers> Atleast I ask very specific questions :) and only one thus far
Jul 22 19:03:36 <zhobbs_> sayers: you don't need to restart the emulator each time you tun
Jul 22 19:03:38 <zhobbs_> run*
Jul 22 19:03:51 <sayers> yeah, I just found that out
Jul 22 19:03:55 <sayers> I wish I knew that earlier :)
Jul 22 19:10:56 <jasta> a lot of folks are confused by that, apparently.
Jul 22 19:11:06 <jasta> i never was, it seemed obvious to me.  but meh :)
Jul 22 19:13:58 <sayers> jasta, Haha :) well I was underestimating the awesomeness
Jul 22 19:14:04 <sayers> better to do that :)
Jul 22 19:14:23 <jasta> michaelnovakjr__: *poke*
Jul 22 19:15:51 <michaelnovakjr_> hey
Jul 22 19:16:03 <michaelnovakjr_> hey AttractiveApe
Jul 22 19:17:10 <michaelnovakjr_> hey jasta
Jul 22 19:17:19 <jasta> did you create that log?
Jul 22 19:17:35 <jasta> the problem we were having with AttractiveApe's environment was that we couldn't replicate the hanging application when using the logcatter.
Jul 22 19:17:41 <jasta> instead, the app just wouldn't open.
Jul 22 19:17:54 <michaelnovakjr_> hm,
Jul 22 19:18:01 <jasta> did you have different results?
Jul 22 19:18:08 <michaelnovakjr_> i would like to know how he's got a good data connection
Jul 22 19:18:40 <jasta> possibly just his service area is providing different coverage, which the phone better supports.
Jul 22 19:18:50 <jasta> for example, perhaps he is getting EVDO Rev A service and you are not.
Jul 22 19:19:01 <jasta> but it doesn't matter.  if you sync five-client once you don't need to again
Jul 22 19:19:13 <jasta> and five-music doesn't need a network connection (it'll crash before it gets that far)
Jul 22 19:19:42 <michaelnovakjr_> yea, but to get the logcat out to my machine....
Jul 22 19:20:27 <jasta> oh that's true :)
Jul 22 19:20:50 <jasta> if only we had USB working :(
Jul 22 19:20:52 <michaelnovakjr_> oh, wait i forgot....i kept a connection on windows mobile side open and it worked a lot better last night
Jul 22 19:21:14 <jasta> oh yeah.  that's what the PPP settings fix, btw.
Jul 22 19:21:19 <jasta> they permit the device to dial the connection itself
Jul 22 19:21:23 <jasta> instead of just hijacking an active one
Jul 22 19:21:47 <jasta> (how it hijacks a PPP session from HaRET is a mystery to me, though)
Jul 22 19:21:50 <michaelnovakjr_> yea, i just have to figure out what the ppp settings are supposed to be
Jul 22 19:22:33 <jasta> call sprint, ask for a level 2 tech
Jul 22 19:22:57 <michaelnovakjr_> they give the information?
Jul 22 19:23:01 * AttractiveApe yawns
Jul 22 19:23:05 <michaelnovakjr_> howdy
Jul 22 19:23:13 <AttractiveApe> hey all.
Jul 22 19:23:32 <michaelnovakjr_> AttractiveApe: do you have sprint?
Jul 22 19:24:00 <AttractiveApe> no
Jul 22 19:24:10 <AttractiveApe> I'm in west Canada, so I have Telus.
Jul 22 19:24:24 <jasta> that could also be the issue :)
Jul 22 19:24:31 <AttractiveApe> My phone has an evdo reva connection in WinMo, not sure about Android.
Jul 22 19:24:33 <jasta> sprint's network may operate differently :)
Jul 22 19:24:34 <michaelnovakjr_> hm, i'm trying to get my connection to stay up
Jul 22 19:24:47 <jasta> i had trouble with the touch i used as well
Jul 22 19:24:50 <michaelnovakjr_> but i get like 30 seconds of network every so often
Jul 22 19:24:52 <jasta> network wouldn't stay up for more than about 5 minutes
Jul 22 19:25:13 <AttractiveApe> heh, I don't have that problem
Jul 22 19:25:25 <AttractiveApe> I removed the ppp setline in my default.txt, since I don't know what I need for Telus
Jul 22 19:25:43 <AttractiveApe> and my data connection seems to work fine, I don't even need to prime it, since I have push email setup.
Jul 22 19:25:44 <michaelnovakjr_> hm, you just commented it out?
Jul 22 19:25:48 <AttractiveApe> yes
Jul 22 19:25:52 <michaelnovakjr_> interesting....
Jul 22 19:27:14 <michaelnovakjr_> i'm giving that a try
Jul 22 19:31:14 <michaelnovakjr_> is  the code for the wireless available?
Jul 22 19:34:22 <djsiegel> I'm getting this notorious "Your content must have a ListView whose id attribute is android.R.id.list" exception and I can't figure out why. Here's my layout -- I'm trying to run a tabhost demo -- http://paste2.org/p/51216
Jul 22 19:35:27 <djsiegel> I read that I need to s/@+id/@android:id but that doesn't seem to work.
Jul 22 19:35:48 <romainguy___> first of all you need a ListView if you use a ListActivity
Jul 22 19:35:58 <romainguy___> apparently here you don't need/want a ListActivity
Jul 22 19:35:58 <jasta> djsiegel: you need a listview, obviously.
Jul 22 19:35:58 <djsiegel> Ah, that makes perfect sense.
Jul 22 19:36:01 <michaelnovakjr_> yea
Jul 22 19:36:01 <romainguy___> so use Activity instead
Jul 22 19:36:27 <michaelnovakjr_> it looks for android:list as the id if you use a ListActivity
Jul 22 19:36:43 <djsiegel> ok, I see
Jul 22 19:36:59 <djsiegel> yeah, I changed my activity to subclass Activity instead and it works (sort of)
Jul 22 19:37:02 <djsiegel> thank you
Jul 22 19:37:33 <djsiegel> Does anyone know of a better tab demo>
Jul 22 19:37:46 <djsiegel> Or where I can find the source of the default android contacts application?
Jul 22 19:38:03 <romainguy___> it's not available yet
Jul 22 19:39:18 <djsiegel> ok, thank you
Jul 22 19:42:29 <jasta> djsiegel: i had createda  pretty advanced tab demonstration
Jul 22 19:42:44 <jasta> http://devtcg.blogspot.com/2008/03/advanced-tab-activity-demo.html
Jul 22 19:43:00 <jasta> it's perhaps a little more than you were looking for though.
Jul 22 19:43:50 <michaelnovakjr_> jasta glance is coming along
Jul 22 19:44:24 <AttractiveApe> Does it run nicely on the Vogue, michaelnovakjr_?
Jul 22 19:44:29 <michaelnovakjr_> yea
Jul 22 19:44:45 <michaelnovakjr_> i am testing it on there now
Jul 22 19:45:08 <jasta> michaelnovakjr_: yeah, i scoped it out a bit today
Jul 22 19:45:23 <jasta> you need to use an adapter filter, though.
Jul 22 19:45:25 <michaelnovakjr_> i need to add a few more things just to the browser its
Jul 22 19:45:27 <jasta> so you can type to narrow large lists
Jul 22 19:45:55 <michaelnovakjr_> i want to fix the icons so they are correct
Jul 22 19:46:10 <michaelnovakjr_> and disable the back btn when at the parent directory
Jul 22 19:46:26 <michaelnovakjr_> i committed a slightly more updated version like 20 minutes ago
Jul 22 19:50:25 <michaelnovakjr_> :)
Jul 22 19:50:38 <michaelnovakjr_> espn autorefresh.... keeps my connection alive
Jul 22 19:53:13 <AttractiveApe> via the browser?
Jul 22 19:53:30 <michaelnovakjr_> via IE
Jul 22 19:57:56 <AttractiveApe> pocket IE, you mean?
Jul 22 19:58:05 <michaelnovakjr_> yea
Jul 22 19:58:09 <AttractiveApe> ah, k
Jul 22 19:58:19 <AttractiveApe> try that from within Android
Jul 22 19:58:54 <michaelnovakjr_> good idea
Jul 22 20:43:50 <anno^da> jasta: I got a question about your TabActivity example. I've just tried to add one Tab. Is it right that I just have to add one activity with the name e.g "Four" and add the name to the Array? Or do I have to change something in addition?
Jul 22 20:45:18 <anno^da> Because I get four tabs now but after clickling on the fourth tab I get a null pointer exception. But the Four.java including the activity content is available and I don't really get the reason why.
Jul 22 20:48:58 <jasta> anno^da: is the activity declared in your manifest?
Jul 22 20:49:24 <jasta> also, look at adb logcat to see the call stack of the exception.  it will reveal more information to you about what you've done wrong.
Jul 22 20:51:02 <anno^da> ah thats it :( sorry for that.
Jul 22 20:51:26 <anno^da> I forgot to decalre it shame one me :/
Jul 22 20:52:04 <anno^da> But thank you. Just missed this point.
Jul 22 20:52:41 <jasta> Please heed my suggestion about adb logcat.  using this output will help you quickly resolve a wide range of problems when developing on Android.
Jul 22 20:52:55 <jasta> I typically have it open in another window all the while I'm testing.
Jul 22 20:53:53 <jasta> and I use Log.d calls from within my application to monitor state occassionally while I'm developing.  Though don't spend too much time trying to make that type of debugging work for you.  If it doesn't work to initially solve the problem, fire up a real debugger and set breakpoints.
Jul 22 20:54:17 <anno^da> Yeah I will do that. I have the Logcat output open normally looking for my Tags .
Jul 22 20:54:17 <jasta> Though do note that because of bugs in the current SDK, watch points and expressions will NOT work correctly from within the Eclipse plugin.
Jul 22 20:54:55 <anno^da> Ok thank you for your advices.
Jul 22 21:01:30 <f00f-> i still haven't used a debugger for my app
Jul 22 21:01:36 <f00f-> stacktraces usually fix the problem
Jul 22 21:03:49 <anno^da> But Jasta I like your clean style for the UI.
Jul 22 21:05:13 <f00f-> pics?
Jul 22 21:05:14 <f00f-> oh five
Jul 22 21:05:15 <f00f-> right
Jul 22 21:05:57 <anno^da> Mmh even the tabs are nice. I know that from the technical point of view it is not that much. But its clean and just nice.
Jul 22 21:06:19 <anno^da> When I look at the Top50 apps there are soooo crappy UIs :D
Jul 22 21:07:18 <f00f-> like our UI
Jul 22 21:07:27 <anno^da> what have you done ?
Jul 22 21:07:56 <f00f-> PedNav
Jul 22 21:07:59 <f00f-> it's an ugly pos
Jul 22 21:08:41 <anno^da> Yeah the screens look nice.
Jul 22 21:08:51 <anno^da> http://www.routeme2.com/products/pednav/
Jul 22 21:08:53 <anno^da> right ?
Jul 22 21:08:55 <f00f-> yeah
Jul 22 21:09:00 <anno^da> Great.
Jul 22 21:09:18 <f00f-> glad you like it, hopefully they will improve slightly
Jul 22 21:09:24 <f00f-> we only put the best screens on the site
Jul 22 21:10:16 <anno^da> :)
Jul 22 21:14:43 <anno^da> So and for now I'm saying goodbye. Thanks for your help guys.
Jul 22 21:16:08 * anno^da likes to add. If someone knows how to access HTTPS site through the HttpClient(4) drop me a message. :-) I'm still searching.
Jul 22 21:21:51 <jasta> anno^da: UI is not my specialty, but I'm glad you like what I've put together.
Jul 22 21:22:52 <anno^da> The thing is most people tend towards doing too much UI. Mostly if they are not so skilled.
Jul 22 21:23:29 <anno^da> There are often too much icons, too much color, color that dont get together and so on.
Jul 22 21:31:55 <f00f-> anno^da: HTTPS access is an issue i've heard
Jul 22 21:32:11 <f00f-> anno^da: so too bad if you're developing a banking app :/
Jul 22 21:33:01 <anno^da> Hmm not really just accessing the delicious API
Jul 22 21:33:09 <sayers> if I use droid draw, how do I move the edit text field below the label, instead of it stacking
Jul 22 21:33:09 <anno^da> and it is not possible :/
Jul 22 21:40:10 <jasta> sayers: none of us here use DroidDraw i don't think.
Jul 22 21:40:23 <jasta> and its not officially supported by anyone here, so... :)
Jul 22 21:40:29 <sayers> hehe
Jul 22 21:40:40 <sayers> Well, I guess you all are mad programmers ;)
Jul 22 21:40:48 <jasta> mad?
Jul 22 21:40:50 <sayers> Not that the XML creation is TOO hard
Jul 22 21:40:55 <sayers> good.
Jul 22 21:41:08 <sayers> I just find GUI development difficult and it takes a lot of time for me.
Jul 22 21:41:13 <jasta> I don't think we're *all* good programmers at all ;)
Jul 22 21:41:36 <jasta> But all I meant to say was that if you use DroidDraw, don't expect much help from us.
Jul 22 21:41:48 <jasta> Or from anyone, really.  I'd just craft the XML yourself.
Jul 22 21:42:03 <sayers> Yeah, I will as I get better, for now this is a good tool
Jul 22 21:42:12 <sayers> I modify the XML's at the moment, but i don't hand write them just yet.
Jul 22 21:44:07 <jasta> Suit yourself.
Jul 22 21:49:32 <f00f-> droiddraw is a waste of time
Jul 22 21:49:37 <f00f-> if it's not perfect, it's not worth it.
Jul 22 21:49:55 <f00f-> very few gui builders can chown hand-coded layouts
Jul 22 21:54:06 <jasta> f00f-: do you know if you need to use a multithreaded connection manager with HttpClient in order to share references to executed methods between threads?
Jul 22 21:54:32 <jasta> I'm assuming the correct behaviour for terminating a blocking reading thread is to just invoke releaseConnection on the method being read from
Jul 22 21:54:37 <jasta> But I'm not sure if that's thread safe.
Jul 22 21:54:48 <jasta> I assumed it was in all my earlier programers, but it just popped into my head that I should confirm :)
Jul 22 21:55:29 <jasta> that is, the main UI thread would call method.releaseConnection() while the reading thread is busy reading method.getResponseBodyAsInputStream.
Jul 22 21:55:41 <jasta> obviously that would be bad if method is not thread-safe using the default connection manager.
Jul 22 21:56:22 <f00f-> jasta: wow, that i dont know about that, once you consume the content, i dont know what happens
Jul 22 21:56:30 <f00f-> I actually need to keep an HttpResponse object around
Jul 22 21:56:42 <f00f-> i wonder if it'll persist after i consume the response body
Jul 22 21:56:49 <f00f-> not sure about threads though
Jul 22 21:57:03 <jasta> f00f-: i'm referring to when you want to specifically cancel the request.
Jul 22 21:57:10 <jasta> whilst the reading thread is busy.
Jul 22 21:57:13 <f00f-> oh
Jul 22 21:57:26 <jasta> such as for example in onStop/onDestroy() or from the cancel handler of a progressdialog.
Jul 22 21:57:40 <jasta> you could be lazy and just let it dangle there still connected
Jul 22 21:58:05 <jasta> but but that would require very special care not to create race conditions, so its worth it to avoid them correctly
Jul 22 22:01:14 <jasta> -but* :)
Jul 22 22:01:34 <jasta> i read on the httpclient docs that it's "fully thread-safe" when using a multithreaded connection manager
Jul 22 22:01:43 <jasta> but it makes no claim as to what the default connection manager is.
Jul 22 22:01:50 <jasta> i can assume it's partially thread-safe, but thread-safe in this way?  hmm.
Jul 22 22:02:42 <jasta> romainguy___: do you know?
Jul 22 22:15:43 <Dougie187> Good Evening
Jul 22 22:19:24 <jasta> sup
Jul 22 22:53:57 <djsiegel> Can someone tell me how to access resources from other apps -- for example, is the address book application available somewhere?
Jul 22 22:54:47 <djsiegel> Gah -- I meant, is the address book icon available?
Jul 22 22:55:15 <f00f-> uh
Jul 22 22:55:20 <f00f-> use a ContentProvider
Jul 22 22:55:28 <f00f-> would that work for your requirement?
Jul 22 22:58:08 <djsiegel> Maybe...
Jul 22 22:59:52 <jasta> the address book will be provided using the contacts provider.
Jul 22 22:59:53 <jasta> so use that.
Jul 22 23:00:01 <jasta> and it's available now, even.  check the ApiDemos that utilize it.
Jul 22 23:02:29 <djsiegel> no, jasta, I want the icon
Jul 22 23:02:35 <djsiegel> just the address book icon
Jul 22 23:02:51 <romainguy___> you can use the package manager for that
Jul 22 23:02:52 <jasta> what icon?
Jul 22 23:03:29 <djsiegel> So, when you launch Android's default contacts program
Jul 22 23:03:37 <djsiegel> it has two tabs -- contacts and Favorites
Jul 22 23:03:42 <djsiegel> I want to use those icons
Jul 22 23:03:52 <djsiegel> I'm guessing I cannot
Jul 22 23:04:15 <romainguy> romainguy___: you can use the package manager for that
Jul 22 23:05:35 <f00f-> cloning is not allowed.
Jul 22 23:08:44 <jasta> djsiegel: as romain said, the package manager can access those resources for you
Jul 22 23:08:56 <jasta> there's another way to extract them, but i'd rather not tell you what it is :)
Jul 22 23:32:20 <djsiegel> Ok, I've found the drawable I want with getPackageManager ().getDrawable ("com.google.android.contacts", 0x7f020015, null)
Jul 22 23:32:32 <djsiegel> But I feel like that is not very reliable
Jul 22 23:33:20 <romainguy___> WIth the package manager you can ask for the resources of com.google.android.contacts
Jul 22 23:33:29 <romainguy___> then you can ask for the id of a specific resource
Jul 22 23:33:37 <djsiegel> Ah, ok.
Jul 22 23:33:44 <romainguy___> for instance com.google.android.contacts:drawable/app_icon
Jul 22 23:33:48 <romainguy___> and then get its Drawable
Jul 22 23:33:50 <romainguy___> note however that:
Jul 22 23:34:05 <romainguy___> 1. it can break if names change (the package names have changed after M5 for isntance)
Jul 22 23:34:07 <romainguy___> 2. it's very slow
Jul 22 23:34:09 <Kraln> romainguy: should let me have the source to dalvik so I can compile it for iphone
Jul 22 23:34:20 <Kraln> :-D
Jul 22 23:34:40 <romainguy___> The iPhone SDK license does not allow you to do this I believe
Jul 22 23:34:52 <romainguy___> at least that's what I gathered by reading news about the SDK
Jul 22 23:35:11 <Kraln> not from what I saw- it said if you're doing FOSS stuff you just have to abide by the FOSS license
Jul 22 23:35:21 <romainguy___> that's not the issue
Jul 22 23:35:37 <Kraln> oh, which clause was it then?
Jul 22 23:35:43 <romainguy___> my understanding is that the license explicitly forbids to write interpreters/VMs
Jul 22 23:35:49 <romainguy___> I don't know, I haven't read the license
Jul 22 23:36:33 <Kraln> oh yeah, you're right
Jul 22 23:36:40 <Kraln> that's clause 3.3.2 :-/
Jul 22 23:36:47 <romainguy___> :(
Jul 22 23:36:48 <f00f-> lame
Jul 22 23:36:59 <f00f-> i need a JVM on the iPHone
Jul 22 23:40:43 <davidw> I talked to Steve, and while he was really tempted by having Hecl on the iPhone, I guess the business needs outweighed it...
Jul 22 23:41:17 <Kraln> you know
Jul 22 23:41:21 <Kraln> that precludes emulators, too.
Jul 22 23:41:30 <Kraln> so I guess no nintendo emulator from me
Jul 22 23:44:43 <davidw> sleep time for me....ciao
Jul 22 23:49:08 <AttractiveApe> Yeah, that's probably the reasoning.
Jul 22 23:49:43 <djsiegel> So, I've been learning android for a couple days now, and reading documentation wasn't working so I'm going to clone the contacts application. I'm using Tango/GNOME icons and they look so much better than the default theme icons...
Jul 22 23:57:53 <romainguy___> they might but they look different from the rest of the system :(
Jul 22 23:58:39 <f00f-> davidw: steve is an idiot
Jul 23 01:30:10 <sayers> Why do I get the sense that it's easier to develop for android then it will be for j2me ;)
Jul 23 01:34:51 <romainguy___> sayers: because it is :)
Jul 23 01:35:12 <sayers> romainguy___, much. I'm not even going to port rate a girl to j2me
Jul 23 01:35:25 <sayers> they make it impossible to find anything on their site
Jul 23 01:35:34 <romainguy> on Sun's web site?
Jul 23 01:35:39 <sayers> yeah
Jul 23 01:35:46 <romainguy> because Sun doesn't provide the implementations in the phones
Jul 23 01:36:00 <romainguy> I have to admit that NetBeans and its Mobility Pack is a great IDE for JavaME
Jul 23 01:36:03 <sayers> so what, I have to crawl across the net find a bit by bit
Jul 23 01:36:10 <romainguy> however, supporting different types of handsets in JavaME is a pain
Jul 23 01:36:20 <sayers> romainguy, netbeans rocks on gui design
Jul 23 01:36:23 <gambler> ? j2me is dead easy but you cant do anything with it
Jul 23 01:36:28 <sayers> but for coding it isn't to great
Jul 23 02:07:39 <f00f-> jasta
Jul 23 02:07:45 <f00f-> how did you reverse engineer the system apk's
Jul 23 02:07:48 <f00f-> you have a script?
Jul 23 02:08:57 <f00f-> heh
Jul 23 02:09:00 <f00f-> google helped me spell your last name
Jul 23 02:11:38 <f00f-> jasta: i need to generate android-system-apks
Jul 23 02:11:44 <f00f-> like you have done
Jul 23 02:21:04 <f00f-> i found it jasta
Jul 23 02:21:05 <f00f-> nevermind
Jul 23 02:21:07 <f00f-> you just did the xml
Jul 23 02:21:22 <f00f-> i plucked the drawables out of android.jar
Jul 23 02:22:53 <f00f-> bah these icons all suck
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Wed Jul 23 02:59:56 2008