**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun Aug 17 02:59:57 2008
Aug 17 04:35:58 <romainguy> re
Aug 17 04:39:05 <morrildl> romainguy: mi
Aug 17 05:05:03 <meoblast001> is this google Android?
Aug 17 05:10:19 <meoblast001> hi SR71-Blackbird
Aug 17 05:11:09 <michaelnovakjr_1> :)
Aug 17 05:11:17 <michaelnovakjr_1> SR71-Blackbird won't answer you
Aug 17 05:11:19 <meoblast001> am i in the right place?
Aug 17 05:11:23 <michaelnovakjr_1> yes
Aug 17 05:11:25 <meoblast001> ok
Aug 17 05:11:28 <meoblast001> i want this
Aug 17 05:11:31 <meoblast001> for my phone
Aug 17 05:11:33 <meoblast001> but my phone sux
Aug 17 05:11:37 <meoblast001> so im running the emu
Aug 17 05:11:46 <meoblast001> what phones is it compatible with
Aug 17 05:11:57 <michaelnovakjr_1> that information hasn't been announced yet
Aug 17 05:12:00 <meoblast001> oh
Aug 17 05:12:07 <meoblast001> does it work on any cheap sprint phones?
Aug 17 05:12:12 <michaelnovakjr_1> probably not
Aug 17 05:12:21 <meoblast001> because i dont want to stay with sprint
Aug 17 05:12:29 <meoblast001> but i want a phone that supports android
Aug 17 05:12:30 <michaelnovakjr_1> what do you mean by cheap phones?
Aug 17 05:13:00 <meoblast001> idk.... a phone that doesnt require me to dish out a bunch of money and then just throw the phone away when im done with sprint
Aug 17 05:13:24 <meoblast001> the emu is sitting here at the red ball going back and forth
Aug 17 05:13:36 <michaelnovakjr_1> its loading
Aug 17 05:13:44 <michaelnovakjr_1> the emulator isn't going to give a you feel for the phone
Aug 17 05:13:47 <meoblast001> its taking longer this time
Aug 17 05:13:49 <michaelnovakjr_1> its used for development purposes
Aug 17 05:13:59 <michaelnovakjr_1> its an sdk
Aug 17 05:13:59 <meoblast001> can i skip it =P
Aug 17 05:14:06 <michaelnovakjr_1> no
Aug 17 05:14:13 <meoblast001> lol ok
Aug 17 05:14:19 <michaelnovakjr_1> the emulator isn't really meant for consumers
Aug 17 05:14:24 <meoblast001> i like it
Aug 17 05:14:29 <meoblast001> i would love to develop for it
Aug 17 05:14:33 <meoblast001> but i dont use java
Aug 17 05:14:38 <michaelnovakjr_1> why not?
Aug 17 05:16:40 <meoblast001> michaelnovakjr_1: never found the need
Aug 17 05:16:56 <meoblast001> im not the best programmer
Aug 17 05:17:05 <michaelnovakjr_1> i see
Aug 17 05:17:15 <meoblast001> is Android development easy?
Aug 17 05:17:17 <meoblast001> like.. for apps?
Aug 17 05:17:35 <michaelnovakjr_1> if you know what you are doing sure
Aug 17 05:17:47 <meoblast001> i could make a myspace app =P
Aug 17 05:17:54 <michaelnovakjr_1> oh jeez
Aug 17 05:17:57 <meoblast001> lol
Aug 17 05:17:58 <michaelnovakjr_1> i hate myspace
Aug 17 05:18:05 <meoblast001> or AIM
Aug 17 05:18:10 <meoblast001> or does it already have that
Aug 17 05:18:17 <michaelnovakjr_1> it will have that stuff
Aug 17 05:18:31 <meoblast001> hmm.. what else does it need?
Aug 17 05:18:34 <meoblast001> i have an idea
Aug 17 05:18:38 <meoblast001> an HTML editor =P
Aug 17 05:18:53 <michaelnovakjr_1> on a phone?
Aug 17 05:18:58 <meoblast001> lol
Aug 17 05:18:58 <meoblast001> no
Aug 17 05:19:01 <meoblast001> that would be stupid
Aug 17 05:19:08 <meoblast001> go faster emulator
Aug 17 05:20:11 <michaelnovakjr_1> i'd recommend reading the documentation first
Aug 17 05:20:15 <meoblast001> uhhh
Aug 17 05:20:17 <meoblast001> Java died
Aug 17 05:20:21 <meoblast001> this was working before
Aug 17 05:20:23 <meoblast001> i end it
Aug 17 05:20:25 <meoblast001> and now it wont work
Aug 17 05:20:31 <michaelnovakjr_1> there are some design elements that are important to understand
Aug 17 05:20:42 <meoblast001> i had it working before =P
Aug 17 05:20:57 <michaelnovakjr_1> what os?
Aug 17 05:22:06 <meoblast001> Linux
Aug 17 05:22:08 <meoblast001> 32
Aug 17 05:22:12 <meoblast001> i686
Aug 17 05:22:25 <meoblast001> Lin32 lol
Aug 17 05:23:04 <meoblast001> Emulator is a CPU whore lol
Aug 17 05:23:21 <michaelnovakjr_1> its an emulator
Aug 17 05:23:26 <meoblast001> yeah
Aug 17 05:23:30 <meoblast001> dgen doesnt do this lol
Aug 17 05:23:34 <meoblast001> then again
Aug 17 05:23:40 <meoblast001> dgen is a very very matured emulator
Aug 17 05:23:47 <michaelnovakjr_1> this isn't meant to be :)
Aug 17 05:23:48 <romainguy__> what does dgen emulate?
Aug 17 05:23:49 <meoblast001> so mature, that development stopped
Aug 17 05:24:02 <meoblast001> sega genesis
Aug 17 05:24:10 <romainguy__> it's not quite the same thing to emulate :)
Aug 17 05:24:17 <meoblast001> i guess
Aug 17 05:24:23 <michaelnovakjr_1> hey meoblast001, got a friend you should meet
Aug 17 05:24:24 <romainguy__> Android's is based on qemu btw
Aug 17 05:24:29 <michaelnovakjr_1> muthu, meet meoblast001
Aug 17 05:24:42 <muthu> mornin
Aug 17 05:24:45 <meoblast001> hi
Aug 17 05:26:02 <muthu> meoblast001: any androd apps you are working on?
Aug 17 05:27:33 <meoblast001> muthu: no
Aug 17 05:27:37 <meoblast001> i might start sometime soon
Aug 17 05:27:41 <muthu> great
Aug 17 05:27:44 <meoblast001> well
Aug 17 05:27:51 <meoblast001> that is if the things i saw on youtube arent true
Aug 17 05:27:57 <meoblast001> i saw a lot of stuff saying android is dead
Aug 17 05:28:02 <muthu> nope
Aug 17 05:28:15 <meoblast001> and that the blog hasnt been updated since 2007
Aug 17 05:28:29 <muthu> a public sdk is coming soon..
Aug 17 05:28:34 <muthu> and the launch is near
Aug 17 05:28:35 <meoblast001> public?
Aug 17 05:28:43 <meoblast001> i have the SDK
Aug 17 05:28:46 <meoblast001> so isnt that public?
Aug 17 05:28:48 <muthu> m5 was the last sdk that we got in feb
Aug 17 05:29:00 <muthu> so we are expecting updates now
Aug 17 05:29:15 <meoblast001> wtf is up with the emu
Aug 17 05:29:20 <meoblast001> it was working fine a bit ago
Aug 17 05:29:31 <meoblast001> i guess after you get it up and running once, thats the end
Aug 17 05:29:37 <meoblast001> i'll just delete all this and reextract
Aug 17 05:29:48 <michaelnovakjr_1> muthu, you are too optimistic
Aug 17 05:30:17 <meoblast001> every thing looks good
Aug 17 05:30:21 <michaelnovakjr_1> muthu, its pretty dead as far as the public is concerned
Aug 17 05:30:21 <meoblast001> from the videos i saw on youtube
Aug 17 05:30:24 <meoblast001> a few bugs here and there
Aug 17 05:31:09 <michaelnovakjr_1> few++
Aug 17 05:31:14 <muthu> michaelnovakjr_1: with the recent news.. its coming alive
Aug 17 05:31:30 <michaelnovakjr_1> what recent news?
Aug 17 05:31:38 <michaelnovakjr_1> muthu, you confuse rumors with news too much
Aug 17 05:32:20 <meoblast001> im involved with too many projects
Aug 17 05:32:35 <meoblast001> Alientrap, Xeiso, Ubuntu, Crystal Space (sort of)
Aug 17 05:33:58 <meoblast001> why is this sooooo slooooooow
Aug 17 05:34:09 <meoblast001> it was done in 30 seconds on my first try
Aug 17 05:34:20 <meoblast001> and now i give it 10 minutes and nothing
Aug 17 05:34:30 <meoblast001> not even terminal output
Aug 17 05:35:10 <meoblast001> michaelnovakjr_1: any help?
Aug 17 05:35:31 <michaelnovakjr_1> i've never had emulator problems :)
Aug 17 05:35:43 <michaelnovakjr_1> what terminal output are you talking about
Aug 17 05:35:46 <michaelnovakjr_1> adb logcat?
Aug 17 05:35:46 <meoblast001> how long does it take you to get past red ball?
Aug 17 05:35:55 <michaelnovakjr_1> about 30 seconds
Aug 17 05:35:58 <meoblast001> ok maybe im doing something wrong
Aug 17 05:35:58 <michaelnovakjr_1> at most
Aug 17 05:36:14 <meoblast001> i drag tools/emulator into a terminal
Aug 17 05:36:16 <meoblast001> press enter
Aug 17 05:36:19 <meoblast001> and it brings up a window
Aug 17 05:36:25 <meoblast001> with the emu
Aug 17 05:36:30 <meoblast001> it says Android_
Aug 17 05:36:33 <meoblast001> and then the red ball
Aug 17 05:36:36 <meoblast001> and the red ball still
Aug 17 05:36:38 <meoblast001> and it never stops
Aug 17 05:36:49 <michaelnovakjr_1> open a new terminal window and run adb logcat
Aug 17 05:36:54 <michaelnovakjr_1> see what its stuck on
Aug 17 05:37:18 <meoblast001> k
Aug 17 05:37:54 <meoblast001> bash: adb: command not found
Aug 17 05:38:09 <muthu> its in tools
Aug 17 05:38:10 <michaelnovakjr_1> its part of android
Aug 17 05:38:12 <michaelnovakjr_1> its in tools
Aug 17 05:38:25 <meoblast001> ok
Aug 17 05:39:04 <meoblast001> its doing stuff
Aug 17 05:41:14 <meoblast001> W/SurfaceFlinger(  508): executeScheduledBroadcasts() skipped, contention on the client. We'll try again later...
Aug 17 05:41:14 <meoblast001> W/SurfaceFlinger(  508): executeScheduledBroadcasts() skipped, contention on the client. We'll try again later...
Aug 17 05:41:14 <meoblast001> W/SurfaceFlinger(  508): executeScheduledBroadcasts() skipped, contention on the client. We'll try again later...
Aug 17 05:41:14 <meoblast001> D/        (  508): zip_openZipFile(/system/app/gtalkservice.apk)
Aug 17 05:42:06 <meoblast001> michaelnovakjr_1: whats up with that... i think its repeating stuff but idk
Aug 17 05:42:57 <meoblast001> ahhhh
Aug 17 05:43:10 <meoblast001> quit trying again later and just get the job done
Aug 17 05:43:20 <michaelnovakjr_1> ?
Aug 17 05:43:27 <michaelnovakjr_1> just restart it
Aug 17 05:43:30 <meoblast001> W/SurfaceFlinger(  508): executeScheduledBroadcasts() skipped, contention on the client. We'll try again later...
Aug 17 05:43:59 <michaelnovakjr_1> what java are you running
Aug 17 05:44:04 <meoblast001> idk
Aug 17 05:44:10 <meoblast001> whatever Ubuntu gave me
Aug 17 05:44:18 <michaelnovakjr_1> if its that gcj shit.... get rid of it and install the sun binaries from package manager
Aug 17 05:45:11 <michaelnovakjr_1> go to package manager and search for sun, if no java package is selected there you must have the gcj....
Aug 17 05:45:19 <meoblast001> i'll check
Aug 17 05:47:10 <meoblast001> michaelnovakjr_1: sun-java6-bin
Aug 17 05:47:40 <michaelnovakjr_1> just make sure you gcj packages are installed
Aug 17 05:48:32 <meoblast001> michaelnovakjr_1: i thought you called those shit
Aug 17 05:48:50 <michaelnovakjr_1> i meant not installed
Aug 17 05:48:53 <michaelnovakjr_1> sorry, its late here
Aug 17 05:49:07 <meoblast001> gcj-4.2-base
Aug 17 05:49:09 <meoblast001> thats installed
Aug 17 05:49:36 <michaelnovakjr_1> dump it
Aug 17 05:49:40 <meoblast001> ?
Aug 17 05:49:46 <michaelnovakjr_1> remove the package
Aug 17 05:50:10 <meoblast001> k
Aug 17 05:51:33 <muthu> get jdk 1.6 from sun
Aug 17 05:51:56 <michaelnovakjr_1> muthu, he has it
Aug 17 05:52:06 <meoblast001> im running emu now
Aug 17 05:54:11 <meoblast001> michaelnovakjr_1: D/PackageManager(  508): Scanning app dir /system/framework
Aug 17 05:54:11 <meoblast001> W/SurfaceFlinger(  508): executeScheduledBroadcasts() skipped, contention on the client. We'll try again later...
Aug 17 05:55:04 <michaelnovakjr_1> you got me, i've never had an issue with it
Aug 17 05:55:13 <michaelnovakjr_1> i'd try some android forumns
Aug 17 05:55:16 <michaelnovakjr_1> forums*
Aug 17 05:55:25 <meoblast001> i dont have time at the moment sadly
Aug 17 05:55:31 <meoblast001> if all else fails i'll let it go overnight
Aug 17 05:55:57 <meoblast001> wheres the docs/
Aug 17 05:56:11 <michaelnovakjr_1> where you downloaded the sdk from ... http://code.google.com/android
Aug 17 05:56:37 <romainguy__> meoblast001: what computer/OS do you have?
Aug 17 05:56:40 <meoblast001> i keep forgetting that google is a company
Aug 17 05:56:44 <meoblast001> Ubuntu 8.04 HH
Aug 17 05:57:07 <romainguy__> what machine do you run on?
Aug 17 05:57:16 <romainguy__> CPU and RAM
Aug 17 05:57:31 <meoblast001> oh yay heres the embarasing part
Aug 17 05:57:44 <meoblast001> 1.6 GHz Intel Pentium M
Aug 17 05:57:50 <meoblast001> 512 megabytes of ram
Aug 17 05:58:02 <romainguy__> oh ok, then the emulator will probably be very very very very slow
Aug 17 05:58:07 <meoblast001> but wait
Aug 17 05:58:09 <meoblast001> i got it to run
Aug 17 05:58:15 <meoblast001> it only took 3-5 minutes to start
Aug 17 05:58:23 <romainguy__> which is very very very slow :)
Aug 17 05:58:24 <meoblast001> and after that it never started again
Aug 17 05:58:31 <romainguy__> remove your user data
Aug 17 05:58:35 <meoblast001> user?
Aug 17 05:58:37 <romainguy__> rm -Rf ~/.android
Aug 17 05:58:41 <meoblast001> oh
Aug 17 05:58:53 <meoblast001> i didnt know it did that
Aug 17 05:58:59 <meoblast001> i just kept reextracting the files
Aug 17 05:59:12 <romainguy__> I didn't say you did that
Aug 17 05:59:18 <romainguy__> I'm telling you to do that
Aug 17 05:59:24 <michaelnovakjr_1> :)
Aug 17 05:59:25 <meoblast001> i know
Aug 17 05:59:27 <romainguy__> ok :)
Aug 17 05:59:51 <muthu> do a -wipe-data once in a while
Aug 17 06:00:10 <meoblast001> or wipe it manually
Aug 17 06:02:20 <muthu> and make sure you pray to the android gods often ;)
Aug 17 06:02:39 <meoblast001> lol
Aug 17 06:02:39 <romainguy__> soon you won't even need an emulator :)
Aug 17 06:02:52 <meoblast001> im not rich
Aug 17 06:03:05 <meoblast001> i cant afford the hardware
Aug 17 06:03:59 <muthu> i'm tired of emu
Aug 17 06:04:11 <meoblast001> isnt there already a working one
Aug 17 06:04:14 <romainguy__> meoblast001: no pricing has been announced yet
Aug 17 06:04:15 <meoblast001> i saw videos on youtube
Aug 17 06:04:24 <meoblast001> people put them on their phones
Aug 17 06:04:31 * michaelnovakjr_1 coughs, rumors
Aug 17 06:04:44 <meoblast001> what about on the android homepage
Aug 17 06:04:48 <meoblast001> that guy who has it on his phone
Aug 17 06:05:04 <meoblast001> and he gets a text from Lexi about pizza
Aug 17 06:05:04 <romainguy__> meoblast001: er the Google employee?
Aug 17 06:05:13 <meoblast001> yeah
Aug 17 06:05:16 <michaelnovakjr_1> romainguy_ wouldn't even go there
Aug 17 06:05:21 <romainguy__> well
Aug 17 06:05:22 <romainguy__> yeah
Aug 17 06:05:28 <muthu> is the device being used in goog cafeteria?
Aug 17 06:05:30 <romainguy__> we have real hardware at work to do our job:))
Aug 17 06:05:41 <romainguy__> michaelnovakjr_1: ?
Aug 17 06:05:46 <meoblast001> you work at google?
Aug 17 06:05:46 <romainguy__> michaelnovakjr_1: go where?
Aug 17 06:05:49 <romainguy__> yes
Aug 17 06:05:51 <romainguy__> I work on Android
Aug 17 06:05:51 <michaelnovakjr_1> the guy on the android homepage :)
Aug 17 06:06:09 <meoblast001> romainguy__: do you like your job?
Aug 17 06:06:14 <romainguy__> I love it :)
Aug 17 06:06:23 <meoblast001> sometimes i forget google is a company
Aug 17 06:06:28 <romainguy__> michaelnovakjr_1: I still don't get it :)
Aug 17 06:06:33 <muthu> android is the best mobile platform out there
Aug 17 06:06:40 <michaelnovakjr_1> Sergey
Aug 17 06:06:48 <romainguy__> what about him?
Aug 17 06:06:54 <michaelnovakjr_1> he's the guy on the homepage
Aug 17 06:07:00 <meoblast001> Android Emulator is the best emulator out there (cough cough)
Aug 17 06:07:10 <romainguy__> michaelnovakjr_1: er ok :)
Aug 17 06:07:11 <michaelnovakjr_1> meoblast001: wanted to know why he had a device...
Aug 17 06:07:15 <muthu> sergey is the android god :)
Aug 17 06:07:20 <michaelnovakjr_1> ?
Aug 17 06:07:43 <meoblast001> wheres the secret button
Aug 17 06:07:45 <meoblast001> come on
Aug 17 06:07:47 <meoblast001> the joke's over
Aug 17 06:07:59 <romainguy__> this chan is very confusing
Aug 17 06:08:26 <meoblast001> D`=
Aug 17 06:08:33 <muthu> bolt seems to be running backwards when crossing the 100m finish line
Aug 17 06:08:36 <michaelnovakjr_1> meoblast001: i recommend doing some reading up on android
Aug 17 06:08:49 <michaelnovakjr_1> muthu: he was done before he finished
Aug 17 06:08:49 <muthu> and he still has 9.69!!
Aug 17 06:08:51 <meoblast001> i want to do exactly what i was doing about 30 minutes ago
Aug 17 06:08:56 <meoblast001> playing around with the emu
Aug 17 06:09:35 <muthu> how's this 100m WR keep getting pushed like this?
Aug 17 06:09:41 <muthu> where's the limit?
Aug 17 06:10:13 <michaelnovakjr_1> if he kept running he could have done 9.5
Aug 17 06:10:23 <muthu> yeah
Aug 17 06:11:17 <muthu> there's some nice goog api's in code.google.com
Aug 17 06:11:31 <muthu> i'm looking at the geo and social networking in particular
Aug 17 06:11:41 <meoblast001> hmm
Aug 17 06:11:46 <meoblast001> was i supposed to cd first?
Aug 17 06:11:46 <michaelnovakjr_1> i have social networking :)
Aug 17 06:11:50 <muthu> if you put these together in your android.. you would have some nice stuff
Aug 17 06:11:52 <michaelnovakjr_1> but you already know that
Aug 17 06:11:58 <michaelnovakjr_1> hate *
Aug 17 06:12:03 <muthu> hehe
Aug 17 06:12:15 <meoblast001> ?
Aug 17 06:13:19 <muthu> meoblast001: add tools to your path
Aug 17 06:13:34 <meoblast001> ?
Aug 17 06:13:40 <meoblast001> cd?
Aug 17 06:13:49 <muthu> yeah
Aug 17 06:13:53 <meoblast001> ok
Aug 17 06:13:59 <meoblast001> is that why it was phailing before?
Aug 17 06:14:07 <muthu> may b
Aug 17 06:15:59 <muthu> 7th gold for phelps is amazing
Aug 17 06:16:08 <muthu> looks like the serb won
Aug 17 06:17:03 <meoblast001> this thing is running as slow as windows
Aug 17 06:17:20 <michaelnovakjr_1> muthu, you watching in delay?
Aug 17 06:17:52 <meoblast001> if (user == "impatient") { wait("long_time"); }
Aug 17 06:18:14 <meoblast001> W/SurfaceFlinger(  514): executeScheduledBroadcasts() skipped, contention on the client. We'll try again later...
Aug 17 06:18:18 <muthu> michaelnovakjr_1: yeah, in delay
Aug 17 06:18:26 <meoblast001> trying again later DOESNT GET THE JOB DONE
Aug 17 06:18:49 <michaelnovakjr_1> oh, muthu... it gets better
Aug 17 06:19:01 <michaelnovakjr_1> meoblast001: im sure if  you looked online you would have found it already :)
Aug 17 06:19:06 <michaelnovakjr_1> help that is
Aug 17 06:19:26 <meoblast001> do i put that whole string into google?
Aug 17 06:19:35 <meoblast001> lol @ talking about google in a google channel
Aug 17 06:19:43 <meoblast001> i mean
Aug 17 06:19:48 <meoblast001> do i type that in at ask.com =P
Aug 17 06:20:09 <michaelnovakjr_1> you are really new at this huh?
Aug 17 06:20:16 <muthu> meoblast001: what's that you are trying to do?
Aug 17 06:20:16 <michaelnovakjr_1> look in the forums for keywords
Aug 17 06:20:26 <michaelnovakjr_1> like emulator slow on linux :)
Aug 17 06:20:27 <meoblast001> im not good at keywords
Aug 17 06:20:41 <meoblast001> or emulator hangs linux
Aug 17 06:20:48 <meoblast001> then that sounds like its killing linux
Aug 17 06:20:50 <meoblast001> but it doesnt
Aug 17 06:21:09 <meoblast001> and google algorithms still arent smart enough for how stupid i am
Aug 17 06:22:04 <meoblast001> cant find forums
Aug 17 06:22:16 <michaelnovakjr_1> i think you are just lazy
Aug 17 06:22:37 <meoblast001> ahhh
Aug 17 06:22:43 <meoblast001> i typed in android forums in google
Aug 17 06:22:49 <meoblast001> and it pointed me to a porn forums
Aug 17 06:29:17 <muthu> lol
Aug 17 06:34:29 <meoblast001> i now know why this isnt released yet
Aug 17 06:39:17 <meoblast001> muthu: its starting window manager, how close am i?
Aug 17 06:42:17 <muthu> meoblast001: the emu should run without issues
Aug 17 06:42:26 <meoblast001> how close am i?
Aug 17 06:42:37 <meoblast001> plz.. this has been over 10 minutes ive been watching this thing
Aug 17 06:42:56 <muthu> hold on
Aug 17 06:45:52 <meoblast001> fuck this
Aug 17 06:45:56 <meoblast001> im redownloading tommorro
Aug 17 06:45:58 <meoblast001> im deleting it all
Aug 17 06:46:37 <muthu> that might work ;)
Aug 17 06:46:51 <meoblast001> my computer is devastated
Aug 17 06:46:58 <meoblast001> running as slow as a windows machine
Aug 17 06:47:42 <meoblast001> let me add this to my Freenode startup channels
Aug 17 06:48:03 <meoblast001> ok
Aug 17 06:48:06 <meoblast001> now im gonna go to bed
Aug 17 06:48:09 <meoblast001> see you tommorro
Aug 17 06:48:11 <meoblast001> night
Aug 17 07:44:13 <muthu> will gae support anything other than python?
Aug 17 07:45:35 <muthu> python seem to be really good though
Aug 17 08:19:03 <anno^da-> good morning
Aug 17 08:20:38 <muthu> good afternoon
Aug 17 08:21:43 <anno^da> :-)
Aug 17 08:21:55 <anno^da> Where do you live? In the US ?
Aug 17 08:22:26 <muthu> chennai, india
Aug 17 08:23:38 <anno^da> Ah I should have guessed that from your name :)
Aug 17 08:24:33 <muthu> you in ny?
Aug 17 08:24:54 <anno^da> No I'm living in Germany :)
Aug 17 08:25:16 <anno^da> I'm coming directly from breakfast. :-)
Aug 17 08:25:27 <muthu> oh yeah
Aug 17 08:32:20 <chomchom> good morning!
Aug 17 08:40:08 <anno^da> morning chomchom
Aug 17 08:45:40 <anno^da> Whats the easiest way to create a pulsing button (the background color fades from one in to another and back) ?
Aug 17 08:45:52 <anno^da> Is it possible with a simple animation ?
Aug 17 09:53:58 <anno^da> haha the latest rumours
Aug 17 09:54:02 <anno^da> no GPS :P
Aug 17 09:54:25 <anno^da> with 80% ot the ADC apps using GPS services
Aug 17 09:55:07 <anno^da> so I dont believe that rumours but the big news sites will :)
Aug 17 09:58:52 <swetland> I heard they're removing the baseband modem and replacing it with an RJ11 jack for dialup
Aug 17 10:03:32 <anno^da> Oh well I've heart we get an barbecue grill included. Would be cool for muthus cooking capsuels :D
Aug 17 10:03:59 <jasta> anno^da: they might have AGPS
Aug 17 10:04:03 <jasta> which is not GPS
Aug 17 10:06:32 <anno^da> from my point of knowledge AGPS is a normal GPS chip that uses the data line to get more precise results. (A=assisted)
Aug 17 10:06:49 <swetland> a: but there will be ads on the bbq sauce ; ;
Aug 17 10:07:03 <jasta> true, but also there is google's "My Location", which doesn't rely on GPS at all.  although it is very inaccurate.
Aug 17 10:07:16 <swetland> AGPS generally means having ephemeral data available so that the GPS can get a first fix faster
Aug 17 10:07:25 <anno^da> yeah
Aug 17 10:07:26 <jasta> anno^da: still, it wouldn't surprise me if android failed on one of its basic requirements :)
Aug 17 10:07:29 <anno^da> thats what I meant
Aug 17 10:07:32 <swetland> downloaded from an external source (server somewhere)
Aug 17 10:08:16 <swetland> it is true. those fools probably will get the cook time all wrong for the bbq.
Aug 17 10:08:27 <anno^da> jasta: well yeah but that would be pretty stupid. :) Having no GPS would be the worst thing they could do.
Aug 17 10:08:59 <swetland> I bet I could think of several things worse than no GPS! There's a lot of ways to make a crappy phone ^^
Aug 17 10:10:07 <anno^da> Sure swetland but the most ADC apps are based on their local position. And I don't think they will just use the inaccurate Cell ID.
Aug 17 10:10:31 <swetland> I was a bit surprised at the number of mobile social apps
Aug 17 10:10:56 <swetland> and the lack of basic useful stuff I was hoping to see
Aug 17 10:11:39 <anno^da> That's true. But I think that the big vendors for PIM application will the develope for Android outside the ADC.
Aug 17 10:11:47 <anno^da> -the
Aug 17 10:12:12 <anno^da> I dont really care much about the Google apps that will be built in.
Aug 17 14:13:54 <SR71-Blackbird> hi guys
Aug 17 14:52:21 <michaelnovakjr_1> wow SR71-Blackbird spoke!
Aug 17 14:52:52 <dmoffett> He is just responding when I said hello months ago.  :-)
Aug 17 14:53:06 <michaelnovakjr_1> :)
Aug 17 14:53:41 <SR71-Blackbird> haha..
Aug 17 14:53:59 <michaelnovakjr_1> wow again!
Aug 17 14:54:13 <SR71-Blackbird> i haven't been active here much anyways
Aug 17 14:54:37 <michaelnovakjr_1> are you a programmer
Aug 17 14:55:22 <Dougie187> good morning everyone
Aug 17 14:55:26 <SR71-Blackbird> yeah.. been writing an app for a while.. basically for disaster management scenarios
Aug 17 14:55:34 <michaelnovakjr_1> Dougie187: look he spoke!
Aug 17 14:55:41 <Dougie187> who's he?
Aug 17 14:55:57 <SR71-Blackbird> Dougie187, michaelnovakjr_1 was it an issue that I didn't speak?
Aug 17 14:56:04 <michaelnovakjr_1> ah yea, i was writing one of those and some stole it
Aug 17 14:56:16 <michaelnovakjr_1> you've just been in here for like 8 months :)
Aug 17 14:56:16 <Dougie187> I dont know SR71-Blackbird
Aug 17 14:56:23 <Dougie187> he use to talk...
Aug 17 14:56:32 <michaelnovakjr_1> Dougie187: everyone thought he was phantom
Aug 17 14:56:41 <Dougie187> Looks like Good Ol' TSFAY is coming right up through florida.
Aug 17 14:56:47 <SR71-Blackbird> michaelnovakjr_1, was in my autologin.. and I don't like talking much anyways..
Aug 17 14:56:49 <michaelnovakjr_1> yep
Aug 17 14:56:53 <michaelnovakjr_1> :)
Aug 17 14:57:00 <michaelnovakjr_1> Dougie187: coming close to you?
Aug 17 14:57:06 <Dougie187> Decently close.
Aug 17 14:57:12 <Dougie187> We are in the projected region for Wednesday
Aug 17 14:57:12 <michaelnovakjr_1> SR71-Blackbird: were you in the top 50
Aug 17 14:57:16 <Dougie187> but that is also huge.
Aug 17 14:57:21 <michaelnovakjr_1> yea
Aug 17 14:57:28 <Dougie187> its a good 300 mile diameter.
Aug 17 14:57:38 <dmoffett> You can't have a name like SR71-Blackbird and not bring some attention.  :-)
Aug 17 14:57:39 <SR71-Blackbird> michaelnovakjr_1, nope.. didn't apply for that.. had a lot to do during that time..
Aug 17 14:57:42 <Dougie187> but we are supposed to get winds of 25 mph and significant rain fall
Aug 17 14:59:19 <michaelnovakjr_1> getting ready for it?
Aug 17 14:59:21 <SR71-Blackbird> is there any word about new SDK?
Aug 17 14:59:34 <michaelnovakjr_1> nope
Aug 17 15:01:09 <muthu> SR71-Blackbird: expected sometime this month..
Aug 17 15:01:53 <michaelnovakjr_1> muthu.... rumors
Aug 17 15:02:09 <SR71-Blackbird> muthu, yeah, been hearing those for a while anyways.. :)
Aug 17 15:03:19 <muthu> sep 17, oct 13 are the two dates
Aug 17 15:03:21 <michaelnovakjr_1> i'm fed up with the whole thing
Aug 17 15:03:29 <michaelnovakjr_1> stop speculating!!
Aug 17 15:03:34 <michaelnovakjr_1> google hasn't said anything
Aug 17 15:04:07 <SR71-Blackbird> michaelnovakjr_1, yeah... I've kinda stopped working on android for a while.. need to resume in a few weeks anyways
Aug 17 15:04:33 <michaelnovakjr_1> i was working on it for awhile but kinda stopped also
Aug 17 15:04:38 <michaelnovakjr_1> thinking about getting an iPhone
Aug 17 15:04:46 * SR71-Blackbird too
Aug 17 15:04:51 <muthu> now is the time to work on android
Aug 17 15:04:59 <michaelnovakjr_1> nope
Aug 17 15:05:24 <SR71-Blackbird> I'd need to port my app to iPhone soon anyways, so looking at it..
Aug 17 15:05:25 <michaelnovakjr_1> muthu, its gonna flop
Aug 17 15:05:33 <muthu> it would be a huge hit
Aug 17 15:05:38 <muthu> android will rock
Aug 17 15:05:48 <michaelnovakjr_1> not when it launches
Aug 17 15:06:11 <michaelnovakjr_1> the top 50 apps suck, and there's no promising apps for it and we don't even know what the google stuff will look like
Aug 17 15:06:13 <muthu> glad its not blindly following iphone
Aug 17 15:06:17 <SR71-Blackbird> thing about mobile phones is, the life is short... even iPhone wont last long enough.. it was fairly disruptive.. but Linux will beat to it
Aug 17 15:06:24 <muthu> we don't need an iphone clone!
Aug 17 15:06:41 <SR71-Blackbird> iPhone is definitely something in the right direction IMO
Aug 17 15:06:50 <muthu> top 50 doesn't matter
Aug 17 15:06:58 <michaelnovakjr_1> muthu yes it does
Aug 17 15:07:01 <muthu> am sure there are other apps waiting to be released
Aug 17 15:07:10 <michaelnovakjr_1> with an old sdk
Aug 17 15:07:17 <michaelnovakjr_1> you are too hopeful man :)
Aug 17 15:07:53 <muthu> android makes me hopeful
Aug 17 15:07:57 <SR71-Blackbird> i think google fscked up by trying to do everything in java and stuff... I'd have loved to program in python, C++
Aug 17 15:08:06 <SR71-Blackbird> LiMo looks better in that regard..
Aug 17 15:08:26 <muthu> disagree
Aug 17 15:08:31 <muthu> android is cool with java
Aug 17 15:08:44 <muthu> and that's a major selling point
Aug 17 15:08:48 <michaelnovakjr_1> why?
Aug 17 15:08:57 <muthu> and they picked python for gae
Aug 17 15:08:59 <michaelnovakjr_1> is java the only language you know muthu?
Aug 17 15:09:21 <SR71-Blackbird> java is only something people "have been" using to program mobile phones... that doesn't make it better..
Aug 17 15:09:32 <muthu> android is better
Aug 17 15:10:37 <michaelnovakjr_1> muthu, i have seen no evidence to prove this
Aug 17 15:10:50 <michaelnovakjr_1> i don't like to set myself up for disappointment
Aug 17 15:10:59 <michaelnovakjr_1> google's done that once already
Aug 17 15:11:19 <SR71-Blackbird> IMO android is very much J2SE with some extra classes and Dalvik VM... it didn't pull a lot of stuff from other platforms, which it could've and kinda left other non-java developers almost entirely as of now
Aug 17 15:11:44 <dmoffett> Java is the choice since Android was bought and there will be other languages as soon.
Aug 17 15:12:07 <muthu> yeah, other languages might come in
Aug 17 15:12:20 <SR71-Blackbird> dmoffett, hope so.. I'm looking at symbian too, since it's open source too.. it will be.. IIRC
Aug 17 15:12:23 <michaelnovakjr_1> doubt it would happen for a long time
Aug 17 15:12:34 <dmoffett> new languages?
Aug 17 15:12:39 <michaelnovakjr_1> ya
Aug 17 15:12:57 <michaelnovakjr_1> they can't even get it right with one language :)
Aug 17 15:13:05 <dmoffett> I would think soon since Ruby and Python can already create byte code for other VM.
Aug 17 15:13:13 <michaelnovakjr_1> i hate Ruby
Aug 17 15:13:18 <michaelnovakjr_1> Python is cool though
Aug 17 15:13:22 <dmoffett> Ruby rocks.
Aug 17 15:13:33 <michaelnovakjr_1> nope, the create is a douce
Aug 17 15:13:35 <michaelnovakjr_1> douche
Aug 17 15:13:38 <dmoffett> Python rocks just not as much as Ruby.  :-)
Aug 17 15:13:44 <michaelnovakjr_1> "Ruby has no bugs!"
Aug 17 15:13:51 <dmoffett> lol
Aug 17 15:14:15 <SR71-Blackbird> michaelnovakjr_1, I haven't seen much reason to use ruby yet.. Python does everything I need
Aug 17 15:14:27 <michaelnovakjr_1> yea Python's cool
Aug 17 15:14:33 <dmoffett> I fought hard to on a project for Python and lost out to Ruby.  After knowing both I lean towards Ruby.
Aug 17 15:14:51 <muthu> python might be supported
Aug 17 15:14:56 <muthu> since goog uses a lot of py
Aug 17 15:14:58 <dmoffett> I would think so.
Aug 17 15:15:05 <dmoffett> and they have Guido.
Aug 17 15:15:08 <michaelnovakjr_1> muthu, why must you speculate
Aug 17 15:15:21 <muthu> michaelnovakjr_1: what else to do here?
Aug 17 15:15:33 <michaelnovakjr_1> talk about real stuff :)
Aug 17 15:16:04 <muthu> would love to, but there's not real stuff to talk about now ;)
Aug 17 15:16:22 <SR71-Blackbird> ok.. see ya guys, I'll try to hang out here more often... :)
Aug 17 15:16:23 <muthu> hate GAE supports only python
Aug 17 15:16:28 * SR71-Blackbird goes back to reading 
Aug 17 15:16:45 * muthu goes back to google reader
Aug 17 15:19:01 <michaelnovakjr_1> muthu why?
Aug 17 15:19:06 <michaelnovakjr_1> python is fine
Aug 17 15:20:02 <dmoffett> dmoffett heads out to Mountain Bike on the Uncompahgre Plateau saying later to all you geeks.
Aug 17 15:20:39 <muthu> michaelnovakjr_1: i'm too lazy to learn python now
Aug 17 15:20:46 <michaelnovakjr_1> why?
Aug 17 15:20:48 <michaelnovakjr_1> its not hard
Aug 17 15:21:18 <michaelnovakjr_1> muthu, do you program other stuff other than Java?
Aug 17 15:21:54 <muthu> what do you program?
Aug 17 15:22:11 <michaelnovakjr_1> lots of stuf
Aug 17 15:22:18 <dmoffett> Muthu if you don't know a scripting language, Python is a fine one and you will never regret it.  Writing simple apps for testing or automating task makes it worth the effort.
Aug 17 15:22:27 <michaelnovakjr_1> :)
Aug 17 15:22:57 <muthu> i'm at a stage where learning new language is not fun anymore
Aug 17 15:23:11 <dmoffett> Perl is hard Python is fun.
Aug 17 15:23:30 <michaelnovakjr_1> muthu, what languages do you know?
Aug 17 15:24:09 <muthu> michaelnovakjr_1: i'm not answering that because it doesn't prove anything
Aug 17 15:24:42 <michaelnovakjr_1> i was just asking :)
Aug 17 15:25:14 <muthu> all i can say is, learning something new is not fun anymore ;)
Aug 17 15:25:26 <michaelnovakjr_1> ?
Aug 17 15:25:45 <muthu> would rather stick to something i know, and focus on the product rather
Aug 17 15:26:19 <michaelnovakjr_1> that doesnt make sense
Aug 17 15:26:29 <michaelnovakjr_1> that is limiting
Aug 17 15:26:39 <muthu> when you don't have a focus, it doesn't matter
Aug 17 15:28:32 <muthu> goog is big on python.. so it must be good
Aug 17 15:29:52 <michaelnovakjr_1> muthu, if you are a programmer languages are simple
Aug 17 15:30:12 <michaelnovakjr_1> you put a lot of trust in google huh :)
Aug 17 15:32:19 <muthu> yeah i trust goog
Aug 17 15:32:38 <muthu> they have the right intentions
Aug 17 15:32:51 <michaelnovakjr_1> i'd take it with a grain of salt
Aug 17 15:32:54 <dmoffett> One of the powerful tools that Ruby and Python really helped me with were regular expressions.  I used regx in languages like Java but regx really shine in scripting languages.
Aug 17 15:33:10 <michaelnovakjr_1> true
Aug 17 15:33:36 <muthu> any online python tutorials?
Aug 17 15:33:42 <muthu> that you folks can recommend
Aug 17 15:33:46 <dmoffett> Muthu:  I think you are right but that will only last as long as they make gobs of money.  The bottom line they are publically traded and are beholden to the share holders.
Aug 17 15:34:17 <muthu> dmoffett: i know, and that might be one reason for the recent silence
Aug 17 15:34:25 <dmoffett> could be.
Aug 17 15:34:38 <muthu> that's why i said, right intentions ;)
Aug 17 15:35:33 <dmoffett> and I agree until the intentions conflict with share hold value.  Sad fact of life.
Aug 17 15:36:00 <muthu> yup
Aug 17 15:36:03 <michaelnovakjr_1> i honestly think it'll flop.... no developers are even close to being ready for a launch
Aug 17 15:36:46 <muthu> this is only v1.. it will only get better
Aug 17 15:36:55 <dmoffett> My fear is that it will become a developers platform.
Aug 17 15:36:58 <michaelnovakjr_1> first impression is everything
Aug 17 15:37:15 <michaelnovakjr_1> people waiting to see it, if they don't like it they'll get an iPhone
Aug 17 15:38:09 <dmoffett> iPod is a good example of growing a platform.  The first gen iPods were not a wild success.  Only after a few revs did it become a huge success.
Aug 17 15:38:38 <michaelnovakjr_1> it was also a first of its kind :)
Aug 17 15:38:41 <dmoffett> Imo a keyboard will win over a lot of people.
Aug 17 15:38:54 <dmoffett> Not really there were others.
Aug 17 15:39:04 <michaelnovakjr_1> i actually like the iPhone keyboard, i didn't think i would but they did a nice job with it
Aug 17 15:39:11 <dmoffett> just iPod came into a market of lame implementations.
Aug 17 15:39:11 <muthu> dmoffett: it has to become a developers platform, for android to be successful
Aug 17 15:39:57 <dmoffett> But to make money they need users to like it.
Aug 17 15:40:18 <michaelnovakjr_1> no muthu..... it has to be a users platform
Aug 17 15:40:26 <dmoffett> not just developers.  From what I have seen developers seem to like the platform.
Aug 17 15:40:30 <michaelnovakjr_1> yea
Aug 17 15:40:52 <michaelnovakjr_1> many users are comparing to the iPhone and well......
Aug 17 15:40:58 <dmoffett> Personally I like it better than developing on iPhone.
Aug 17 15:41:20 <michaelnovakjr_1> dmoffett: sure! developing is great...... but i want a phone to work for me :)
Aug 17 15:41:36 <dmoffett> Using the iPHone rocks.  Android has a tough battle and those that don't think so are naive.
Aug 17 15:41:47 <michaelnovakjr_1> very naive
Aug 17 15:42:25 <muthu> its not easy for anyone in the mobile space
Aug 17 15:42:34 <muthu> android seems to have the right balance
Aug 17 15:42:46 <michaelnovakjr_1> what do you mean right balance?
Aug 17 15:42:57 <michaelnovakjr_1> there is no balance.... its all developers right now :)
Aug 17 15:42:59 <dmoffett> I have an iPhone and love it.  I have big fingers and get pissed off.  There is room I think.
Aug 17 15:43:40 <muthu> we need to wait until android hits the users, to find out if they like them or not
Aug 17 15:44:21 <michaelnovakjr_1> absolutely, i'm just not expecting great things
Aug 17 15:45:40 <anno^da_> I'm expecting it to get different users than the iPhone just because there will be devices for every taste. Not everyone likes a touch only phone.
Aug 17 15:45:49 <anno^da_> +s
Aug 17 15:46:10 <michaelnovakjr_1> eh, but i think thats a small market
Aug 17 15:46:21 <michaelnovakjr_1> touchscreen is becoming more and more popular
Aug 17 15:46:30 <anno^da_> lol the iPhone here in germany takes 1% of the market.
Aug 17 15:46:42 <michaelnovakjr_1> germany isn't the whole world :)
Aug 17 15:46:52 <anno^da_> Well yes but the US isnt as well. ;)
Aug 17 15:47:02 <michaelnovakjr_1> obviously :)
Aug 17 15:47:06 <anno^da_> :D
Aug 17 15:47:20 <michaelnovakjr_1> the iPhone has sold quite a bit
Aug 17 15:47:27 <anno^da_> So there will definetly be space for both.
Aug 17 15:47:45 <michaelnovakjr_1> like the iPod and the Zune?
Aug 17 15:47:56 <michaelnovakjr_1> or the Creative devices?
Aug 17 15:48:21 <muthu> android should be competing with the nokias, if its really serious
Aug 17 15:48:23 <anno^da_> which is a total different market. You can't compare mp3 players to mobile phones.
Aug 17 15:48:36 <michaelnovakjr_1> muthu, i don't think that's the idea
Aug 17 15:48:41 <anno^da_> Android competes with other operating systems.
Aug 17 15:48:43 <michaelnovakjr_1> that OS is meant for a good phone
Aug 17 15:48:53 <michaelnovakjr_1> i don't think it'll run well on piece of crap phones
Aug 17 15:48:55 <muthu> right like symbian
Aug 17 15:49:47 <michaelnovakjr_1> i'm going to use the web browser on my tiny piece of crap phone?
Aug 17 15:50:06 <michaelnovakjr_1> i just don't see it
Aug 17 15:50:21 <michaelnovakjr_1> if it doesn't grab hold of the smartphone market it will surely flop
Aug 17 15:51:24 <anno^da_> Well what is a crappy phone for you? Is it a Nokia N95 is it a SE K810?
Aug 17 15:52:04 <michaelnovakjr_1> any non smartphone.... i don't think android will have the desired results
Aug 17 15:52:31 <anno^da_> But you're right the first devices should be mobile phones that include everything a high class phone can carry.
Aug 17 15:56:13 <anno^da_> But even the iPhone is not really the holy grail talking about the feature set.
Aug 17 16:01:58 <anno^da_> And talking about MP3 players isnt a good comparison for one reason. When the iPod reached the market nearly no one had a mp3 player. So the people had no background knowledge. They had nothing in mind what features their player should have. On the mobile market it is pretty different. 90% of the people have a mobile phone and they have a lot of things in mind that their mobile phone has to include. (just think about camera, flash light, ext
Aug 17 16:02:56 <anno^da_> So from my point of view the impact of the iPhone is there. But mainly on the marketing site. Eveyone knows about the iPhone but not really everyone will buy one.
Aug 17 16:04:07 <anno^da_> I've heard a lot of friends say "Well the user interface is awesome but my crappy little 30 bugs phone has a better camera than the iPhone" (thats what I mean with background knowledge)
Aug 17 16:23:24 <meoblast001> hi
Aug 17 16:23:45 <meoblast001> im looking to download some real android applications so i can see what some normal apps look and act like
Aug 17 16:23:52 <meoblast001> is there a place where i can go?
Aug 17 16:24:10 <michaelnovakjr_1> http://android-random.googlecode.com
Aug 17 16:24:13 <michaelnovakjr_1> that has a few
Aug 17 16:24:29 <michaelnovakjr_1> they are geared towards another project, but they run in the emulator
Aug 17 16:24:50 <meoblast001> what other project?
Aug 17 16:25:05 <michaelnovakjr_1> the link to it is on that site
Aug 17 16:25:23 <meoblast001> is there a media player yet?
Aug 17 16:25:35 <michaelnovakjr_1> five.googlecode.com
Aug 17 16:25:54 <meoblast001> i want to see how the media player is looking
Aug 17 16:26:52 <anno^da_> meoblast001: You have to know that there wont be "one" media player. There will be a lot of different ones.
Aug 17 16:27:15 <anno^da_> So Five is just one example for the media players you could run on the Android platform
Aug 17 16:27:28 <michaelnovakjr_1> an excellent one!
Aug 17 16:27:40 <meoblast001> well.... we'll need a simple one for the actual android interface
Aug 17 16:27:43 <meoblast001> why? you might ask
Aug 17 16:27:54 <michaelnovakjr_1> what do you mean simple one?
Aug 17 16:28:01 <anno^da_> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5VrbNRBOlq0  <- one more
Aug 17 16:28:07 <meoblast001> because i know how end users think.... and if they have to do any work to play music, they wont do it
Aug 17 16:28:21 <michaelnovakjr_1> man you are lazy huh?
Aug 17 16:28:27 <michaelnovakjr_1> that isn't work dude
Aug 17 16:28:27 <meoblast001> no
Aug 17 16:28:31 <meoblast001> thats how end users think
Aug 17 16:28:40 <michaelnovakjr_1> not all end users think that way
Aug 17 16:28:41 <anno^da_> meoblast001: How many endusers dont install software on their personal computer ?
Aug 17 16:28:54 <anno^da_> How many dont install software on the iPhone ?
Aug 17 16:29:02 <meoblast001> well. haha.... im a teenager so my freinds are like that
Aug 17 16:29:08 <michaelnovakjr_1> uh 30 million apps downloaded i think
Aug 17 16:29:11 <meoblast001> they only know how to install one app
Aug 17 16:29:14 <meoblast001> AIM
Aug 17 16:29:17 <meoblast001> so they have IE and AIM
Aug 17 16:29:23 <michaelnovakjr_1> i'd say you need new friends
Aug 17 16:29:23 <meoblast001> some higher level ones install Firefox
Aug 17 16:29:40 <meoblast001> i mean..... thats how most ppl i know think
Aug 17 16:29:56 <anno^da_> So we cant give you an answer because there wont be one standard player for that. :)
Aug 17 16:30:09 <anno^da_> On the devices we will see different standard players.
Aug 17 16:30:18 <meoblast001> i have some freinds that are very good with computers.... but the majority cant do crap but type.. press enter.. and click
Aug 17 16:30:40 <meoblast001> well i have an idea
Aug 17 16:30:45 <anno^da_> meoblast001: That's ok. I dont know anything about the internals of cars. :P
Aug 17 16:31:20 <meoblast001> in the interface have a get media player button... when they click it, it brings up a list of all media players they can install
Aug 17 16:31:30 <meoblast001> because in smart phones media players are a common feature
Aug 17 16:31:31 <anno^da_> So it is just the point that every device manufacturer could end up with a different player so there is not just one standard one.
Aug 17 16:31:39 <michaelnovakjr_1> that is a waste meoblast001
Aug 17 16:31:51 <meoblast001> for someone like me and you it is
Aug 17 16:31:53 <michaelnovakjr_1> why would you put something like that in an interface
Aug 17 16:31:56 <anno^da_> haha yeah media players that are able of playing one file format :D
Aug 17 16:32:03 <meoblast001> but for the stupid ppl im usually around, its not
Aug 17 16:32:23 <michaelnovakjr_1> well, maybe they shouldn't get one if they can't learn it
Aug 17 16:32:27 <meoblast001> well... than again
Aug 17 16:32:33 <michaelnovakjr_1> this isn't 1950 anymore :)
Aug 17 16:32:42 <meoblast001> if this becomes a standard.... they'll just do what they already do with computers
Aug 17 16:32:56 <meoblast001> find the smartest person they know... ask him/her... and tell everyone else when they ask
Aug 17 16:33:16 <michaelnovakjr_1> they aren't going to cater the UI to morons
Aug 17 16:33:40 <meoblast001> well.. i now see your point
Aug 17 16:33:47 <meoblast001> Microsoft did that with Windows
Aug 17 16:33:52 <meoblast001> and look at what we have with that
Aug 17 16:34:15 <michaelnovakjr_1> Windows isn't that bad
Aug 17 16:34:28 <meoblast001> sure... it could be worse... but i wouldnt use it
Aug 17 16:34:29 <michaelnovakjr_1> i use linux/mac/windows ... all for different reasons
Aug 17 16:34:57 <michaelnovakjr_1> its stupid to limit yourself
Aug 17 16:35:07 <meoblast001> i used to have windows
Aug 17 16:35:09 <meoblast001> it crashed
Aug 17 16:35:16 <meoblast001> and i didnt feel like paying for another copy
Aug 17 16:35:23 <meoblast001> and i was happier with Ubuntu
Aug 17 16:35:27 <meoblast001> so i kept that
Aug 17 16:35:44 <michaelnovakjr_1> Ubuntu is considered the watered down Linux :)
Aug 17 16:36:05 <meoblast001> thats what everyone says but i think of it different
Aug 17 16:36:10 <michaelnovakjr_1> ?
Aug 17 16:36:28 <meoblast001> its something that is very close to being 100% usable by endusers
Aug 17 16:36:39 <meoblast001> and i have this thing with helping make things end user compatible
Aug 17 16:36:47 <meoblast001> so i try to help out Ubuntu
Aug 17 16:36:54 <meoblast001> but heres something i dont like
Aug 17 16:36:55 <michaelnovakjr_1> how?
Aug 17 16:37:35 <meoblast001> i dont like messing the project up while trying to make it more end user compatible
Aug 17 16:37:41 <anno^da_> michaelnovakjr_1: is there a way to package my emulator? (with all the files I pushed into it)
Aug 17 16:38:00 <michaelnovakjr_1> anno^da_: in what way
Aug 17 16:38:04 <michaelnovakjr_1> you mean for the data?
Aug 17 16:38:38 <meoblast001> i started android up again
Aug 17 16:38:42 <meoblast001> the emulator
Aug 17 16:38:55 <meoblast001> lets see how long it takes
Aug 17 16:39:05 <michaelnovakjr_1> anno^da_: you mean for the apps and stuff like that?
Aug 17 16:39:16 <meoblast001> yay im in
Aug 17 16:40:07 <meoblast001> is there going to be a place on the phone where you can download other apps from?
Aug 17 16:40:15 <anno^da_> Hmm well I'd like to test the whole app on a different pc and dont want to push all the files up again in the files directory of my activity. So all I want is an image of the actual condition of my emulator.
Aug 17 16:41:51 <michaelnovakjr_1> try copying over the data and system images
Aug 17 16:42:40 <anno^da_> Should they be in tools directory ?
Aug 17 16:46:44 <michaelnovakjr_1> i can't remember exactly where
Aug 17 16:46:58 <michaelnovakjr_1> i think a hidden folder in your home directory
Aug 17 16:49:30 <meoblast001> maps need some work
Aug 17 16:49:37 <meoblast001> i give it my address from my contacts
Aug 17 16:49:39 <meoblast001> and it dies
Aug 17 16:49:44 <meoblast001> in directions
Aug 17 16:50:27 <anno^da_> meoblast001: the sdk is from march :P
Aug 17 16:50:44 <meoblast001> ok
Aug 17 16:50:55 <meoblast001> thats not that long ago
Aug 17 16:51:13 <michaelnovakjr_1> yes it is
Aug 17 16:51:20 <michaelnovakjr_1> it is still in development
Aug 17 16:51:23 <michaelnovakjr_1> that is a very long time
Aug 17 16:53:13 <meoblast001> when did Android start?
Aug 17 16:54:02 <anno^da_> nov 07
Aug 17 16:54:07 <meoblast001> oh
Aug 17 16:54:10 <meoblast001> thats not that long ago
Aug 17 16:54:17 <meoblast001> i haz another question
Aug 17 16:54:23 <meoblast001> i have an apk file
Aug 17 16:54:25 <meoblast001> how do i install it
Aug 17 16:55:35 <anno^da_> open the adb in the console
Aug 17 16:55:48 <meoblast001> ?
Aug 17 16:55:53 <anno^da_> and then "adb install name.apk"
Aug 17 16:56:07 <anno^da_> what OS are you using ?
Aug 17 16:56:15 <anno^da_> Ubuntu ?
Aug 17 16:56:39 <meoblast001> oh
Aug 17 16:56:40 <meoblast001> ok
Aug 17 16:56:42 <meoblast001> i get it now
Aug 17 16:56:48 <anno^da_> fine :)
Aug 17 16:56:59 <meoblast001> when is the estimated release date of Android?
Aug 17 16:57:21 <anno^da_> well if you want to believe the latest rumours it will be about the 17th of October
Aug 17 16:57:42 <anno^da_> the first device from HTC with T-Mobile as the operator. (in the US)
Aug 17 16:57:57 <meoblast001> oh
Aug 17 16:58:05 <meoblast001> cant you already install it on phones?
Aug 17 16:58:17 <meoblast001> like.. if you have your own phone
Aug 17 16:58:22 <anno^da_> Well you can install it on different phones.
Aug 17 16:58:54 <meoblast001> what phones are those?
Aug 17 16:58:57 <anno^da_> But that are just hacks and they dont work pretty good. But perhaps michaelnovakjr_1 can tell you more about it. :)
Aug 17 16:59:19 <anno^da_> Some HTC devices, the Nokia N810/800
Aug 17 16:59:33 <anno^da_> that are the devices I have in mind but there are some more
Aug 17 16:59:53 <michaelnovakjr_1> i have it running on an HTC Touch
Aug 17 17:00:09 <meoblast001> i cant afford a good phone =(
Aug 17 17:00:14 <anno^da_> How is the performance ?
Aug 17 17:00:24 <anno^da_> @ michaelnovakjr_1
Aug 17 17:02:50 <michaelnovakjr_1> its good
Aug 17 17:02:56 <michaelnovakjr_1> just no apps for it :)
Aug 17 17:03:21 <meoblast001> michaelnovakjr_1: can you call and text and stuff on it?
Aug 17 17:03:26 <michaelnovakjr_1> yea
Aug 17 17:03:34 <michaelnovakjr_1> i wrote the SMS app i'm using
Aug 17 17:03:41 <michaelnovakjr_1> it doesn't come with one
Aug 17 17:04:05 <meoblast001> will it have one in it at release?
Aug 17 17:04:45 <anno^da_> is the performance better than at the emulator ?
Aug 17 17:05:34 <michaelnovakjr_1> anno^da_: yes
Aug 17 17:05:38 <michaelnovakjr_1> meoblast001: obviously :)
Aug 17 17:06:03 <michaelnovakjr_1> you need a data plan for anything other that text and calling
Aug 17 17:06:20 <michaelnovakjr_1> including app downloading
Aug 17 17:06:24 <meoblast001> yeah
Aug 17 17:06:28 <meoblast001> thats obvious
Aug 17 17:06:33 <meoblast001> can it bluetooth connect to pc?
Aug 17 17:07:30 <michaelnovakjr_1> not yet
Aug 17 17:07:38 <michaelnovakjr_1> like i said... its still a development version
Aug 17 17:07:45 <michaelnovakjr_1> not everything works
Aug 17 17:08:09 <meoblast001> i cant find an APK of five
Aug 17 17:10:47 <muthu> meoblast001: try helloandroid.com and anddev.org
Aug 17 17:13:21 <Dougie187> lol michaelnovakjr_1 you have it running on your touch and you are still converting to iphone?
Aug 17 17:15:27 <anno^da_> romainguy: you here ?
Aug 17 17:15:48 <michaelnovakjr_1> Dougie187: yep
Aug 17 17:16:02 <Dougie187> i would have thought you would have stuck with it after you played with it on your phone.
Aug 17 17:16:17 <michaelnovakjr_1> its not all that special
Aug 17 17:16:31 <meoblast001> i cant find an actual APK of Five
Aug 17 17:16:46 <michaelnovakjr_1> build it from the source
Aug 17 17:18:17 <meoblast001> i dont know how
Aug 17 17:19:32 <meoblast001> michaelnovakjr_1: how do i add files to the emu's filesystem
Aug 17 17:21:11 <muthu> meoblast001: are you planning to buy a gphone?
Aug 17 17:21:31 <meoblast001> i thought gphone was a myt
Aug 17 17:21:31 <meoblast001> h
Aug 17 17:22:46 <meoblast001> muthu
Aug 17 17:23:02 <muthu> yeah, android phone
Aug 17 17:23:05 <anno^da_> meoblast001: You can add files with the eclipse plugin or with the adb shell
Aug 17 17:23:12 <muthu> ok, aphone then ;)
Aug 17 17:23:37 <meoblast001> yes i plan to
Aug 17 17:23:51 <meoblast001> i heard rumors that android is like a dieing project
Aug 17 17:23:57 <muthu> WHAT?
Aug 17 17:24:13 <muthu> lol
Aug 17 17:24:52 <anno^da_> haha
Aug 17 17:25:03 <anno^da_> the rumours are floating around who knows :P
Aug 17 17:25:07 <romainguy__> meoblast001: it sure doesn't feel like it at work ^^
Aug 17 17:25:14 <meoblast001> lol
Aug 17 17:25:25 <muthu> android is the next big thing
Aug 17 17:25:27 <meoblast001> ok... i just tried to push a file
Aug 17 17:25:30 <anno^da_> romainguy: I got my problem solved. I'm sorry for calling you :/
Aug 17 17:25:46 <meoblast001> is it adb push /location/on/phone /location/on/computer
Aug 17 17:25:57 <meoblast001> or adb push /location/on/computer /location/on/phone
Aug 17 17:26:02 <anno^da_> first one
Aug 17 17:26:13 <anno^da_> ah noe second
Aug 17 17:26:13 <anno^da_> :P
Aug 17 17:26:23 <meoblast001> ok no wonder that didnt work
Aug 17 17:26:26 <meoblast001> i ddi the first
Aug 17 17:26:29 <anno^da_> http://code.google.com/android/reference/adb.html
Aug 17 17:26:38 <anno^da_> as a reference for the adb
Aug 17 17:26:58 <ttuttle> It's source destination, always.
Aug 17 17:26:59 <romainguy> anno^da_: what was your problem?
Aug 17 17:27:00 <ttuttle> Just like cp.
Aug 17 17:27:37 <meoblast001> why isnt yahhh.mp3 in /root now
Aug 17 17:27:47 <anno^da_> romainguy: I searched the actual userdata.img on OSX. And I just missed the .android all the time :)
Aug 17 17:27:53 <meoblast001> i thought i pushed it
Aug 17 17:27:54 <romainguy> :)
Aug 17 17:28:27 <anno^da_> Now everything is fine. :)
Aug 17 17:28:31 <meoblast001> wtf
Aug 17 17:28:33 <meoblast001> its not copying
Aug 17 17:28:37 <meoblast001> glance cant find the files
Aug 17 17:29:01 <muthu> http://www.turtlefiji.com/
Aug 17 17:29:14 <muthu> that's the best vacation spot in the world, ever.
Aug 17 17:29:46 <anno^da_> muthu: dont show me that nice pictures. :) I didnt have any vacation this year. :)
Aug 17 17:29:56 <muthu> haha
Aug 17 17:30:10 <anno^da_> it hurts :D
Aug 17 17:30:22 <muthu> i know
Aug 17 17:30:57 <muthu> that's where the androids are having fun ;)
Aug 17 17:31:58 <meoblast001> i cant push the files
Aug 17 17:32:03 <meoblast001> it says they push but nothing happens
Aug 17 17:32:17 <romainguy> is the partition read only?
Aug 17 17:32:29 <meoblast001> ./adb push '/home/user/Music/yahhh.mp3'  /data
Aug 17 17:32:29 <meoblast001> 940 KB/s (3419687 bytes in 3.551s)
Aug 17 17:34:19 <meoblast001> romainguy: why doesnt it show up on the device?
Aug 17 17:34:25 <ttuttle> romainguy: hey!
Aug 17 17:35:32 <romainguy> meoblast001: I have no idea since you are running Android on a custom installation
Aug 17 17:35:54 <romainguy> ttuttle: ?
Aug 17 17:36:16 <meoblast001> custom installation?
Aug 17 17:36:16 <meoblast001> what
Aug 17 17:36:18 <ttuttle> romainguy: er, I meant "hey!" in the sense of "hello", not in the sense of "zomg there's something important I have to tell you".
Aug 17 17:36:22 <romainguy> :_
Aug 17 17:36:24 <romainguy> :)
Aug 17 17:36:30 <ttuttle> romainguy: How's it going?
Aug 17 17:36:39 <romainguy> meoblast001: aren't you running Android on a phone?
Aug 17 17:36:44 <romainguy> ttuttle: tired :)
Aug 17 17:36:47 <meoblast001> no
Aug 17 17:36:48 <ttuttle> romainguy: :(
Aug 17 17:36:50 <meoblast001> im running the emu
Aug 17 17:36:53 <romainguy> meoblast001: oh sorry then
Aug 17 17:37:02 <meoblast001> my phone is too crappy to run android
Aug 17 17:37:15 <romainguy> have you checked that the file is on the emu using adb shell ls /data ?
Aug 17 17:41:49 <meoblast001> buying a smartphone without a contract is expensive
Aug 17 17:41:53 <meoblast001> oh sorry
Aug 17 17:42:19 <meoblast001> let me check
Aug 17 17:42:52 <meoblast001> its there
Aug 17 17:42:55 <meoblast001> why cant i play the file now
Aug 17 17:43:20 <romainguy> how do you play the file?
Aug 17 17:43:33 <meoblast001> uhh.. h/o while i get the name of the app
Aug 17 17:43:38 <meoblast001> Ambient
Aug 17 17:43:41 <meoblast001> i cant find it
Aug 17 17:43:48 <meoblast001> the file
Aug 17 17:44:26 <meoblast001> h/o
Aug 17 17:44:27 <meoblast001> i gtg
Aug 17 17:44:28 <meoblast001> bbl
Aug 17 18:01:47 <meoblast001> im back
Aug 17 18:04:00 <meoblast001> romainguy: if i wanted a not too expensive phone that worked with sprint and android, what would i want to buy?
Aug 17 18:06:18 <plusminus_> there is not yet a phone that officialy supports Android (even no unofficial, as most of the hacks suffer problems)
Aug 17 18:07:22 <meoblast001> plusminus_: why does the FAQ say i cant put it on a phone?
Aug 17 18:07:33 <meoblast001> but some people already ahve it on a phone
Aug 17 18:08:09 <plusminus_> because that were dirty hack0rz
Aug 17 18:08:10 <plusminus_> :D
Aug 17 18:08:23 <meoblast001> well i want a phone with android
Aug 17 18:08:37 <meoblast001> romainguy: you work for google, you can get me one right?
Aug 17 18:08:38 <plusminus_> its linux, so its portable (if you have the knowledge)
Aug 17 18:09:08 <plusminus_> I'd wait for the first official phone, just because its official.
Aug 17 18:09:25 <SanMehat> morning
Aug 17 18:10:06 <plusminus_> hi
Aug 17 18:11:16 <meoblast001> plusminus_: how many years til we get that?
Aug 17 18:11:42 <plusminus_> maybe 12th of a year, maybe longer
Aug 17 18:11:56 <meoblast001> 12th of a year?
Aug 17 18:12:15 <SanMehat> hahaha
Aug 17 18:12:19 <meoblast001> a month?
Aug 17 18:13:26 <meoblast001> plusminus_
Aug 17 18:14:56 <plusminus_> yep, but its just rumors.
Aug 17 18:15:14 <meoblast001> plusminus_: we'll it be out by april?
Aug 17 18:15:28 <plusminus_> but also no one debunking them ;)
Aug 17 18:15:45 <plusminus_> --> I guess that rumours might be correct.
Aug 17 18:17:47 <romainguy> meoblast001: no I cannot get you one
Aug 17 18:18:12 <meoblast001> ok
Aug 17 18:18:25 <meoblast001> romainguy: do you think android will be out by april 09?
Aug 17 18:18:43 <romainguy> we announced the first phones would be out by the end of 2008
Aug 17 18:19:32 <plusminus_> I should start a rumor that romainguy is giving away Android-Devices for free :D
Aug 17 18:19:44 <plusminus_> but as people would probably kill me, I don't...
Aug 17 18:20:27 <plusminus_> damn, this channel would burst ^^
Aug 17 18:20:31 <meoblast001> romainguy: do you think that's gonna happen?
Aug 17 18:20:44 <romainguy> meoblast001: we announced the first phones would be out by the end of 2008
Aug 17 18:20:51 <Dougie187> romainguy is giving away free android-devices?
Aug 17 18:21:01 <plusminus_> success :D
Aug 17 18:21:13 <Dougie187> ;)
Aug 17 18:21:19 <meoblast001> he refuses to state his opinion on whether they are going to do what was announced
Aug 17 18:22:11 <romainguy> then just assume we're going to do what we announced
Aug 17 18:22:17 <romainguy> that's why we announce stuff
Aug 17 18:22:21 <romainguy> because we will do it :)
Aug 17 18:22:28 <romainguy> (like open sourcing the code)
Aug 17 18:23:15 <plusminus_> romainguy should we trust in incredibly often cited rumors, too?
Aug 17 18:23:26 <romainguy> rumors are rumors
Aug 17 18:23:34 <romainguy> it's up to you to trust them or not
Aug 17 18:23:35 <plusminus_> damn
Aug 17 18:23:37 <meoblast001> Google = :)
Aug 17 18:23:54 <plusminus_> so I won't trust but hope ;)
Aug 17 18:24:17 <romainguy> you can see a pattern with rumors on the web
Aug 17 18:24:22 <romainguy> be it about Android or something else
Aug 17 18:24:30 <plusminus_> yes: copy+paste ;)
Aug 17 18:24:33 <romainguy> one web site starts it, with an undiscolsed, often vague, source
Aug 17 18:24:39 <plusminus_> but hope is green, liek android.
Aug 17 18:24:40 <romainguy> and everybody else repeats it
Aug 17 18:24:59 <plusminus_> suddenly becoming less and less vague.
Aug 17 18:25:04 <Dougie187> 1 month and the supposed t-mobile release comes out.
Aug 17 18:25:07 <Dougie187> lol
Aug 17 18:25:33 <meoblast001> when does the sprint one come out?
Aug 17 18:25:37 <meoblast001> lol
Aug 17 18:26:10 <Dougie187> who knows.
Aug 17 18:26:13 <Dougie187> thats what im waiting for
Aug 17 18:26:41 <Dougie187> hopefully soon after t-mobile.
Aug 17 18:27:14 <plusminus_> will an US-Device work in Europe also?
Aug 17 18:27:39 <plusminus_> (question was not Android-specific)
Aug 17 18:28:32 <romainguy> plusminus_: if the said device supports European radio frequencies and if the said device is not SIM-locked, yes
Aug 17 18:28:49 <romainguy> but most phones nowadays work fine all over the world
Aug 17 18:28:59 <romainguy> that said
Aug 17 18:29:12 <romainguy> I just gave my mom my old Sony Eriscsson because her Nokia wasn't working here
Aug 17 18:29:39 <plusminus_> is that called "Tri/Quad-Band" in US, too?
Aug 17 18:29:47 <romainguy> probably
Aug 17 18:30:28 <plusminus_> fine, so as I assume that T-Mobile will make a 2 year contract "w00t", I'll have to buy mayself out of that contract
Aug 17 19:05:53 <meoblast001> romainguy: i have Android console up and gsm call 5555555555 wont work
Aug 17 19:16:46 <michaelnovakjr__> meoblast001: why don't you read some of the tutorials at www.anddev.org
Aug 17 19:17:16 <anno^da_> :)
Aug 17 19:17:41 <meoblast001> im reading the emulator page
Aug 17 19:18:05 <meoblast001> it said to bring up a console and type gsm call <number>
Aug 17 19:18:09 <meoblast001> i did that and it yelled at me
Aug 17 19:18:29 <michaelnovakjr__> do you know how to bring up a console
Aug 17 19:18:37 <michaelnovakjr__> telnet localhost 5554
Aug 17 19:18:39 <meoblast001> ./emulator -console
Aug 17 19:18:48 <michaelnovakjr__> bring it up in telnet
Aug 17 19:18:54 <michaelnovakjr__> telnet localhost 5554
Aug 17 19:18:59 <meoblast001> ?
Aug 17 19:19:00 <michaelnovakjr__> gsm call ...number....
Aug 17 19:19:17 <michaelnovakjr__> open up terminal and type in telnet localhost 5554
Aug 17 19:19:25 <michaelnovakjr__> then run the gsm command
Aug 17 19:20:02 <meoblast001> ok
Aug 17 19:20:04 <meoblast001> its not ringing
Aug 17 19:20:11 <meoblast001> i dont hear a ring
Aug 17 19:20:42 <michaelnovakjr__> your comp audio must be in use by another app
Aug 17 19:20:55 <michaelnovakjr__> again. its only a dev emulator for writing apps
Aug 17 19:22:18 <meoblast001> im trying to get familiar with it so i can eventually develop for it
Aug 17 19:22:59 <anno^da_> well why dont you use the eclipse plugin ?
Aug 17 19:32:14 <meoblast001> eclipse plugin?
Aug 17 19:32:19 <anno^da_> michaelnovakjr__: could you do a video of the android running on the htc touch? I would be interested in how fast the apps load.
Aug 17 19:32:39 <anno^da_> (since it is very subjective)
Aug 17 19:32:47 <anno^da_> meoblast001: well yes. :)
Aug 17 19:33:17 <anno^da_> Read the instructions please...
Aug 17 19:34:03 <anno^da_> http://code.google.com/android/intro/installing.html#installingplugin
Aug 17 20:57:43 <jasta> *rubs eyes*
Aug 17 20:58:58 * chomchom rolls up sleeves
Aug 17 20:59:41 <michaelnovakjr__> howdy
Aug 17 21:00:01 <chomchom> howdy howdy howdy
Aug 17 21:00:55 <jasta> i am mildly hungover
Aug 17 21:00:58 <jasta> but still, i feel like coding :)
Aug 17 21:01:12 <michaelnovakjr__> :)
Aug 17 21:02:40 <morrildl> heh
Aug 17 21:02:51 <morrildl> coincidentally, I was just about to start drinking
Aug 17 21:03:06 <morrildl> actually I guess that's not true I had a mimosa with brunch
Aug 17 21:06:31 <jasta> you animal
Aug 17 21:07:22 <plusminus_> can http responses be transferred "zipped" from the server?
Aug 17 21:07:32 <plusminus_> like adding a request-flag?
Aug 17 21:07:34 <jasta> say again?
Aug 17 21:07:43 <plusminus_> me?
Aug 17 21:07:46 <jasta> you mean the response header itself?
Aug 17 21:07:50 <jasta> or the response body?
Aug 17 21:07:57 <plusminus_> dunno just heard of such stuff
Aug 17 21:08:07 <jasta> can you be more specific?
Aug 17 21:08:20 <plusminus_> I send a http request to a server
Aug 17 21:08:50 <plusminus_> and I want the html-respons to be zipped as zipped text is a lot smaller than not-zipped text
Aug 17 21:09:03 <jasta> you mean teh response body?
Aug 17 21:09:08 <plusminus_> probably
Aug 17 21:09:25 <jasta> the request and response bodies can be encoded any number of arbitrary ways, and compression is well supported on lots of servers.
Aug 17 21:09:54 <plusminus_> i guess I have to send "a flag" along with the request, right=
Aug 17 21:09:55 <plusminus_> ?
Aug 17 21:10:10 <jasta> in a manner of speaking, yes.  do you know the HTTP protocol at all?
Aug 17 21:10:22 <plusminus_> nope
Aug 17 21:11:09 <jasta> the request and response headers have key/value entities that can specify any number of arbitrary things, although there are commonly understood ones like user agent, transfer encoding, etc.
Aug 17 21:11:42 <plusminus_> I think I found something: http://csharpfeeds.com/post/5518/HttpWebRequest_and_GZip_Http_Responses.aspx
Aug 17 21:11:53 <jasta> the content encoding in particular can request gzip compression
Aug 17 21:12:14 <jasta> and if the server supports it, and gives you a content-encoding of gzip back (or a content-type that is compressed), then you know you have a compressed stream.
Aug 17 21:12:16 <plusminus_> / Http.Headers.Add(HttpRequestHeader.AcceptEncoding, "gzip,deflate");
Aug 17 21:12:20 <jasta> i am 100% certain httpclient supports this gracefully.
Aug 17 21:12:40 <jasta> but again, this is a negotiation between your client and the server.  the server may not honor it if not supported or whatever.
Aug 17 21:13:26 <jasta> also, do realize that you've got a double-edged sword on mobile devices.
Aug 17 21:13:49 <jasta> compression is popular with most machines because bandwidth is a bottleneck, and that is true for mobile devices as well.
Aug 17 21:14:02 <plusminus_> DataRates against computing power ?
Aug 17 21:14:06 <jasta> however, on mobile devices, battery and CPU considerations are a close second, which is unlike other environments.
Aug 17 21:14:25 <jasta> so while you may transfer faster technically, the phone may take more time decompressing the stream and waste lots of battery doing so.
Aug 17 21:14:38 <plusminus_> is just 20kb zipped against 100kb unzipped
Aug 17 21:14:49 <plusminus_> uncompressing should not take too long.
Aug 17 21:15:01 <jasta> plusminus_: and what do you base that on?
Aug 17 21:15:01 <plusminus_> I'll test this :)
Aug 17 21:15:10 <jasta> Unless you test with a real phone, you haven't learned anything.
Aug 17 21:15:31 <plusminus_> copy returned html-source to a file and zip it
Aug 17 21:15:51 <jasta> there isn't much data on this topic, but it is well known that you must balance radio usage, latency, and bandwidth against CPU and battery when considering compression.
Aug 17 21:16:02 <jasta> plusminus_: that's hardly a test either.
Aug 17 21:16:29 <plusminus_> its on the Nice-To-Have for AndNav (if it does not get forbidden o_O )
Aug 17 21:16:30 <jasta> don't waste your time benchmarking this: see if you can find a more detailed numerical analysis of this problem online
Aug 17 21:16:37 <jasta> i'm sure someone has explored the topic in more detail than i have.
Aug 17 21:16:57 <plusminus_> k g2g
Aug 17 21:16:59 <plusminus_> bye
Aug 17 21:30:32 <chomchom> and then he was gone...
Aug 17 21:30:59 <chomchom> ...gone to personally answer another million posts
Aug 17 21:31:23 <chomchom> like arnold J rimmer
Aug 17 21:31:48 <chomchom> but without the wig
Aug 17 21:41:31 <chomchom> smoke me a kipper,
Aug 17 21:41:37 <chomchom> I'll be back for ADC2
Aug 17 21:41:57 <morrildl> chomchom: that was... interesting :)
Aug 17 21:43:01 <chomchom> not a fan of red dwarf? Classic.
Aug 17 21:50:21 <jasta> they had some cool deal downtown last night...
Aug 17 21:50:31 <jasta> free concert at the seattle center sponsored by our local indie rock radio station, KEXP 90.3
Aug 17 21:50:41 <jasta> all local artists, and mostly the big ones that KEXP plays
Aug 17 21:50:58 <jasta> Rocky Votolato played last night.  What a treat for free too!
Aug 17 21:51:12 <jasta> with a beer garden, and plenty of seating.  it was really cool.  i love seattle :)
Aug 17 21:51:49 <jasta> and after the show, all the artists were hanging around.  eating food, talking to people, etc.
Aug 17 21:57:54 <jasta> hehe, this is interesting
Aug 17 22:12:32 <jasta> some friends are complaining about all this android secrecy.
Aug 17 22:12:54 <jasta> professional devs don't seem to want to touch android.
Aug 17 22:23:21 <michaelnovakjr__> jasta, its a joke
Aug 17 22:23:35 <michaelnovakjr__> the android thing has pissed me off
Aug 17 22:24:04 <ttuttle> michaelnovakjr__: patience, grasshopper.
Aug 17 22:24:41 <michaelnovakjr__> i'm getting an iphone :)
Aug 17 22:24:53 <ttuttle> michaelnovakjr__: :(
Aug 17 22:24:59 <jasta> do it.
Aug 17 22:25:17 <michaelnovakjr__> i probably won't program for it.... but as a user i'm sure i'll be pleased
Aug 17 22:28:32 <michaelnovakjr__> ttuttle: i have a feeling android will be a flop when its released
Aug 17 22:29:03 <jasta> i'd like to clarify that my opinion is that there is nothing telling us android *WON'T* flop.
Aug 17 22:29:27 <jasta> not that i think it will or will not, just that a belief either way is entirely that: a belief.
Aug 17 22:29:54 <michaelnovakjr__> its been a disappointment
Aug 17 22:30:04 <jasta> Google has done a miserable job showing us why Android will be great.  Google has done a miserable job at everything exception designing and generally implementing a good API.
Aug 17 22:30:20 <jasta> So, congratulations to the developers :)
Aug 17 22:30:52 <michaelnovakjr__> but not to management :)
Aug 17 22:32:30 <jasta> it's just really frustrating being carried along for a year on faith alone.  i am not a religious man, but you wouldn't know it from my blind devotion to Android for so long.
Aug 17 22:33:10 <michaelnovakjr__> yea, it sucks
Aug 17 22:33:13 * ttuttle feels like a prophet who cannot speak.
Aug 17 22:33:30 <ttuttle> (NDA)
Aug 17 22:33:35 <michaelnovakjr__> ttuttle: that is exactly why people are so pissed off
Aug 17 22:33:50 <jasta> it's even largely based on the notion that it is open source.  i don't like this abstraction of realized versus promised.
Aug 17 22:33:58 <michaelnovakjr__> after putting so much time in it to be left in the dark is absolutely bs
Aug 17 22:33:59 <gambler> I heard debian/arm is now working on openmoko. In terms of progress thats more significant than android imo...
Aug 17 22:34:06 <jasta> ttuttle: The stupid SDK was leaked anyway.
Aug 17 22:34:13 <ttuttle> jasta: Oh, it was?  Heh.
Aug 17 22:34:21 <jasta> ttuttle: Yup, and I think it sucks :)
Aug 17 22:34:34 <ttuttle> jasta: I'm sorry to hear that.
Aug 17 22:34:39 <jasta> Or rather, that it doesn't represent the leap I had hoped it would.
Aug 17 22:34:49 <ttuttle> jasta: Well, that's probably why it wasn't released publicly.
Aug 17 22:35:20 <jasta> I had assumed as much.
Aug 17 22:35:31 <jasta> Or at least, I consider that a reasonable conclusion.
Aug 17 22:35:34 <michaelnovakjr__> ttuttle: then they should have said that
Aug 17 22:35:41 <ttuttle> michaelnovakjr__: Yeah, probably.
Aug 17 22:35:57 <michaelnovakjr__> its a load of crap to keep people in the dark
Aug 17 22:36:39 * ttuttle personally can't wait for it to come out.
Aug 17 22:36:54 <jasta> i can't wait either.  michaelnovakjr__ clearly won't.
Aug 17 22:36:59 <jasta> ;)
Aug 17 22:37:26 <michaelnovakjr__> :) i'm impartial now
Aug 17 22:37:42 <michaelnovakjr__> going for the iphone :)
Aug 17 22:37:46 <jasta> ttuttle: The point is, Google has made us all fools for following them.
Aug 17 22:37:59 <michaelnovakjr__> i've wasted too much time on this
Aug 17 22:40:15 <jasta> ttuttle: We rallied behind an idea they won't share with us; a vision they won't show us.
Aug 17 22:40:23 <jasta> If it turns out that we like what we rallied behind, it is only by dumb luck.
Aug 17 22:40:45 <jasta> Because we certainly never knew what it really was when we were baited onboard.
Aug 17 22:41:19 <jasta> I feel very tricked and cheated.  And that has infuriated me, as many of you have seen demonstrated publicly :)
Aug 17 22:41:28 <tomgibara_> jasta: I don't quite agree with that
Aug 17 22:42:15 <jasta> By all means, what don't you agree with?
Aug 17 22:42:42 <tomgibara_> As far as I have been able to judge, Google's publicly stated aim has not changed since the first release.
Aug 17 22:42:54 <tomgibara_> Because we certainly never knew what it really was when we were baited onboard. << I don't think what "it is" has changed
Aug 17 22:43:05 <jasta> Which is nothing but abstract rhetoric, is it not?
Aug 17 22:43:15 <tomgibara_> what has changed - regrettably is the openness demonstrated early on
Aug 17 22:43:47 <tomgibara_> what hasn't changed is that they are building an open source phone platform
Aug 17 22:44:00 <tomgibara_> I'm not sure they promised any more than that
Aug 17 22:44:14 <jasta> Their "goal", I mean.  Their goal was not defined, it was just uttered carefully to not have any weight or consequence.  There will be no revolution of the carriers, of the industry.  There will just be a platform, with some source code attached to it.
Aug 17 22:44:16 <tomgibara_> I stand to be corrected ;)
Aug 17 22:44:42 <tomgibara_> I wouldn't confuse the means with the ends
Aug 17 22:45:03 <michaelnovakjr__> the fact is they gave certain people access with an NDA
Aug 17 22:45:05 <michaelnovakjr__> that is crap
Aug 17 22:45:20 <michaelnovakjr__> and offered no reason at all
Aug 17 22:45:23 <tomgibara_> Google undoubtedly want predominantly open platform for phone apps - I would go as far as to say they need it
Aug 17 22:45:26 <jasta> tomgibara_: Again, it's just abstract rhetoric.  We all got onboard to nothing at all.
Aug 17 22:45:51 <tomgibara_> Google may be making a calculation: Do we beat the carriers with a stick, or dangle a carrot?
Aug 17 22:45:53 <jasta> Just a promise that Google would write a mobile platform, and that phones would run it.  Great, that's what they promised, and that's what we're going to get.  But can you honestly say you expected nothing more? :)
Aug 17 22:46:15 <tomgibara_> Just because you see that as an appeasment to the carriers doesn't mean it's the wrong strategy
Aug 17 22:46:33 <jasta> You don't seem to understand my argument, tomgibara_.
Aug 17 22:47:11 <tomgibara_> Perhaps I don't: what did you expect in addition?
Aug 17 22:47:39 <jasta> Tell you what.  Go back and watch the initial video from Sergey.
Aug 17 22:47:49 <tomgibara_> btw I'm not saying that programmers were not misled - I think they were
Aug 17 22:47:50 <jasta> The very first one we all saw.  And you tell me how that vision was realized in the last 6 months ;)
Aug 17 22:48:43 <tomgibara_> Yes, I agree - there was an 'invitation' there, and it certainly felt like it was retracted.
Aug 17 22:49:07 <tomgibara_> I agree 100% that it was misleading (at least it was to me)
Aug 17 22:49:38 <tomgibara_> But I'm trying to separate Google's aims from their means.
Aug 17 22:49:53 <michaelnovakjr__> i just no longer have an interest in using android
Aug 17 22:50:09 <michaelnovakjr__> i'll probably still program for it... but won't use it
Aug 17 22:50:13 <tomgibara_> The means fell short (imo - though who knows what's to blame), we have yet to see if the aims are met
Aug 17 22:51:58 <tomgibara_> michaelnovakjr__: In my dichotomy, an unfortunate consequence of their means.
Aug 17 22:51:59 <jasta> I'm just saying, if we end up liking it, it's purely dumb luck :)
Aug 17 22:52:14 <tomgibara_> for clarity, liking what?
Aug 17 22:52:29 <jasta> liking the phone itself, and how it fits in this industry.
Aug 17 22:52:46 <jasta> of course, the abstract phone *grin*
Aug 17 22:53:17 <jasta> we all know we like the API.  but do we like anything else?
Aug 17 22:53:17 <tomgibara_> well, android isn't the phone though is it
Aug 17 22:53:55 <tomgibara_> I hope there will be many phones, of course it is hope at this stage
Aug 17 22:54:06 <jasta> that's why i clarified.  the abstract phone.
Aug 17 22:54:15 <jasta> i meant android as a phone, not as a platform for phones.
Aug 17 22:54:41 <jasta> ultimately, android software has to make a good phone experience.  and they have to deliver on all our assumptions of openness.
Aug 17 22:54:43 <tomgibara_> I understood, but the phone is by definition more than its OS
Aug 17 22:54:53 <tomgibara_> agreed
Aug 17 22:55:13 <jasta> i think if you go back and look at all the original materials and announcements, you see that all they really promised was a phone platform and some source code.  why does that excite us?
Aug 17 22:55:46 <tomgibara_> I think there was the implicit promise of something more, which I think you would agree with
Aug 17 22:55:51 <jasta> in sergey's original speech even he opens by conjuring similarities to GNU and Linux.  how laughable does this seem now? :)
Aug 17 22:55:59 <jasta> even when it's released we know it won't match either project.
Aug 17 22:56:50 <tomgibara_> Well, that's hyperbole isn't it - Google can't make Linux, it's a corporation - and even if did it would be an anachronism
Aug 17 22:56:50 <jasta> it won't even be similar, I bet.  but of course we don't know either way.  this is the nuance of my argument.
Aug 17 22:57:08 <jasta> we just don't know what we've got behind here.  even now, months before launch, we know fuck all about how this will play out.
Aug 17 22:57:26 <tomgibara_> I bet Google don't know how it's going to play out :)
Aug 17 22:57:46 <jasta> yeah, that's probably true.  but shame on us for rallying behind such a bumbling leader :)
Aug 17 22:58:16 <yakischloba> it was pretty easy to get excited about.
Aug 17 22:58:20 <tomgibara_> We make out judgements and we will learn our lessons - just at the moment I'm still waiting to learn
Aug 17 22:58:27 <jasta> We should never have supported them in this endeavour.  They did nothing to support us, and we don't know that their ends meet our ends.
Aug 17 22:58:39 <jasta> No reason to forge a relationship between us and them.  I feel stupid for having done so.
Aug 17 22:59:11 <tomgibara_> The main thing that will disappoint me is if there is no open way to get applications onto a phone.
Aug 17 22:59:14 <jasta> And frankly the attitudes of some of the folks in this channel has worsened it.  Half the time I think Dan thinks this is some big fucking joke.
Aug 17 22:59:42 <tomgibara_> I'm not saying that Google explicitly promised it, but it's the only logical basis for all their rhetoric
Aug 17 23:00:13 <tomgibara_> An open platform that has carriers as the gate keepers is utter bullshit
Aug 17 23:00:16 <jasta> tomgibara_: Right.  It was also only logical that when you announce a product that *IS* open source, that source comes with it.
Aug 17 23:00:30 <jasta> It's only logical to assume that a company sponsoring developers would care to make sure they have all the right tools to develop.
Aug 17 23:00:51 <jasta> It's only logical to assume lots of things that didn't happen.  So clearly, logical assumptions were not the best way to operate here.
Aug 17 23:00:53 <tomgibara_> Well I can only say that the effort it takes to open source code in a usable way is significant
Aug 17 23:01:05 <tomgibara_> I can understand why they want to defer that effort until 1.0 is shipping
Aug 17 23:02:22 <jasta> I can understand why they did everything.  Because it serves them, not us.
Aug 17 23:02:49 <ttuttle> Also, remember that an open platform that nobody uses is useless.
Aug 17 23:03:03 <tomgibara_> Well, that's a simple argument 'in the small', but they may have acted 'in the greater good'
Aug 17 23:03:35 <jasta> They acted in their own interests, as you would expect any company to do.
Aug 17 23:03:38 <ttuttle> It's in everyone's interest if Android actually deploys on phones, and people have to wait a little longer for everything to be open source, than if they spend a bunch of time writing code and open source it, and *then* have to sell carriers on it.
Aug 17 23:03:43 <jasta> THat was the logical assumption we all SHOULD have had all along.
Aug 17 23:03:46 <tomgibara_> ttuttle: Exactly, they want to get Android out there, even if it's at the expense of treading over us (sadly)
Aug 17 23:04:04 <ttuttle> tomgibara_: It's not really treading.
Aug 17 23:04:11 <jasta> Haha, it's not?
Aug 17 23:04:19 <tomgibara_> Better that we get a bit trodden on than end up with Android shipping years late
Aug 17 23:04:22 <ttuttle> jasta: Would you develop for a phone platform if no phones used it?
Aug 17 23:04:24 <ttuttle> == tomgibara_
Aug 17 23:04:35 <jasta> They abused the community to produce applications to support their platform and then walked right past them?
Aug 17 23:04:46 <jasta> past the community, I mean.
Aug 17 23:04:51 <jasta> That seems like treading to me.
Aug 17 23:05:01 <tomgibara_> ttuttle: I'm agreeing with you, but it doesn't reduce the pain that I think many developers felt
Aug 17 23:05:04 <jasta> ttuttle: What they did to us has nothing to do with the phone making it to consumers.
Aug 17 23:05:49 <jasta> I think they quite simply had an ambition that was unrealistic.  And rather than retracting it, they just papered over it, making us look like fools.
Aug 17 23:05:50 <tomgibara_> I have to say, that I don't personally feel that hurt, but you only have to see the commentary to see that many developers are
Aug 17 23:06:07 <ttuttle> jasta: They're still planning to open source it.
Aug 17 23:06:08 <tomgibara_> jasta: Quite possibly
Aug 17 23:06:35 <jasta> Open source is not just a gesture, and shame on them for being so glib with it.
Aug 17 23:06:59 <jasta> If you announce your product by opening with a comparison to freaking Linux and GNU you damn well better understand what you're talking about.
Aug 17 23:07:26 <tomgibara_> Though I don't feel like a fool, Google have plenty of opportunities to demonstrate that they will be good os custodians of Android
Aug 17 23:07:31 <ttuttle> jasta: They do understand it.  Open source means you get the source code with the product.  The product isn't out yet, so neither is the source.
Aug 17 23:07:48 <jasta> Open source is a political statement as much as it is a pile of code coming with your download.  Clearly, they did not appreciate the gravity of what they said initially.
Aug 17 23:08:04 <ttuttle> jasta: I think they did appreciate it, but got too busy finishing the release.
Aug 17 23:08:15 <jasta> To say it is open source, and then to pull these stunts, private SDKs, no source code, no collaboration, nothing at all.  It is enraging to anyone that truly understands open source.
Aug 17 23:08:28 <tomgibara_> yep
Aug 17 23:08:48 <tomgibara_> And I'm sure the Android engineers know it too
Aug 17 23:08:48 <ttuttle> jasta: Okay, the ADC SDK NDA (acronym soup!) was nasty.
Aug 17 23:09:02 <jasta> ttuttle: You don't take your commitments seriously if you don't honor them, period.  If you don't think you can honor them, then plan carefully and don't overcommitt.
Aug 17 23:09:06 <jasta> commit*
Aug 17 23:09:24 <ttuttle> jasta: But you're making it sound like they've changed their mind, and aren't open sourcing it.
Aug 17 23:10:00 <jasta> ttuttle: No, I'm telling you that open source is not just dropping code on people at some arbitrary date in the future.
Aug 17 23:10:07 <ttuttle> jasta: What is it, then?
Aug 17 23:10:12 <jasta> You don't conjure up this comparison to a project like Linux and then pull these stunts we saw.
Aug 17 23:10:14 <Dougie187> Hey Jasta
Aug 17 23:10:42 <tomgibara_> ttuttle: It's more a process
Aug 17 23:10:47 <ttuttle> tomgibara_: Yeah, I know.
Aug 17 23:10:55 <Dougie187> or a commitment.
Aug 17 23:11:01 <jasta> It's like me comparing breaking up with my high school girlfriend to divorcing my wife of 30 years.  It just ain't the same, and you look like an ass for saying it.
Aug 17 23:11:13 <jasta> Google looks like an ass for pretending to "get it", and then so clearly not.
Aug 17 23:11:31 <tomgibara_> jasta: But we still don't know why there was secrecy
Aug 17 23:11:36 <jasta> The justifications don't matter.
Aug 17 23:11:36 <ttuttle> jasta: Why are you assuming they aren't going to do these things in the future.
Aug 17 23:11:50 <tomgibara_> jasta: I disagree, I think they do
Aug 17 23:11:54 <jasta> ttuttle: I'm not.  I have learned a lot through this experience, personally.
Aug 17 23:11:55 <Dougie187> well we have heard its not going to be completely open sourced by them.
Aug 17 23:12:05 <ttuttle> Dougie187: Oh?
Aug 17 23:12:08 <Dougie187> yeah
Aug 17 23:12:10 <jasta> Dougie187: Yes, true.
Aug 17 23:12:14 <Dougie187> like 90 - 95%
Aug 17 23:12:28 <Dougie187> any propritary drivers and stuff will not be open sourced.
Aug 17 23:12:31 <Dougie187> or i should say *some*
Aug 17 23:12:35 <Dougie187> not any.
Aug 17 23:12:38 <jasta> ttuttle: Google Apps are a maybe.  The platform itself, yes.  All the drivers are optional, up to the manufacturers and chipset makers basically.
Aug 17 23:12:45 <tomgibara_> Dougie187: Google can't write all the code, and they can't open source the code of others
Aug 17 23:13:01 <ttuttle> == tomgibara_
Aug 17 23:13:04 <jasta> They committed to basically everything you get with the current SDK will be open sourced.  That doesn't include all that much :)
Aug 17 23:13:07 <Dougie187> true, but these are things, at least as far as i know, google is writing.
Aug 17 23:13:32 <jasta> Regardless, it has nothing to do with what they will or won't eventually release.
Aug 17 23:13:44 <tomgibara_> jasta: It should be enough for us (the os community to compete)
Aug 17 23:13:47 <jasta> As I said, they conjured up this similarity to something that they must have known they could not fulfill.
Aug 17 23:14:03 <ttuttle> jasta: I'm not understanding what you want, other than all the code, now.
Aug 17 23:14:23 <tomgibara_> Actually, I think that's the crux of it - is it open enough for the os community to better any of the carrier/google software that ships on the devices
Aug 17 23:14:27 <jasta> Why would you be so stupid to say that your project will be open, of the likes of GNU and Linux, and then so clearly know that source is not coming "soon".  That you don't really intend to divert your engineering resources to the community, etc.
Aug 17 23:14:29 <Dougie187> none of the run-around we have gotten to this point.
Aug 17 23:14:41 <jasta> ttuttle: What I want is already too late.  I wanted them not to bloody call it an open project.
Aug 17 23:14:44 <Dougie187> ;)
Aug 17 23:14:49 <jasta> Had they not, I wouldn't have paid any mind to it.
Aug 17 23:15:06 <ttuttle> jasta: Is the problem that they called it open and then didn't release it for too long?
Aug 17 23:15:17 <jasta> ttuttle: Again, why do you assume that "open source" means releasing source?
Aug 17 23:15:34 <jasta> GNU and Linux are free software, not just software with source.
Aug 17 23:15:37 <jasta> There is a big god damn difference
Aug 17 23:15:57 <ttuttle> jasta: For lack of a better definition.  To me, it means software you can get the source for and modify (and use) freely.
Aug 17 23:15:59 <jasta> it is the freedom, community, and ideals the embody this political idea that are important to me.
Aug 17 23:16:07 <jasta> the source is just a manifestation of them.
Aug 17 23:16:36 <Dougie187> sounds like an awesome conversation tonight.
Aug 17 23:16:39 <jasta> Google failed on all fronts.  The openness, the collaboration, the freedom, and unbelievably even the source.
Aug 17 23:16:48 <ttuttle> :-(
Aug 17 23:17:04 <Dougie187> i haven't quite heard jasta call someone an ass to this point
Aug 17 23:17:08 <Dougie187> lol
Aug 17 23:17:13 <jasta> It's coming.
Aug 17 23:17:18 <jasta> Dan better just hope he keeps quiet :)
Aug 17 23:17:24 <tomgibara_> hehe
Aug 17 23:17:26 <jasta> I'm in no mood for his playful take on all this.
Aug 17 23:17:43 <Dougie187> lol im sure he will, hes prolly not in the mood for a discussion of this calibur tonight.
Aug 17 23:18:02 <Dougie187> especially with the ADC1 R2 finishing up.
Aug 17 23:18:05 <jasta> Again, the point is the promise that duped me into this community in the first place.  Yes, I should have been wise enough to not be fooled, I admit.
Aug 17 23:18:12 <tomgibara_> jasta: Where I diverge is that I am willing to judge their commitment to the openess after they release the first version
Aug 17 23:18:13 <jasta> But they should just have kept their mouths shut.
Aug 17 23:18:23 <ttuttle> tomgibara_: Thank you :-)
Aug 17 23:18:38 <jasta> tomgibara_: You are willing to be deceived, then.  Do you think Sergey is unsure of the tenses of the word "to be"?
Aug 17 23:19:04 <ttuttle> jasta: What do you mean?
Aug 17 23:19:11 <tomgibara_> jasta: Well I may already have been deceived - and as I've already said - I think the initial 'spin' was misleading
Aug 17 23:19:12 <Dougie187> i think he means he takes into account the reasons they do the things they do.
Aug 17 23:19:21 <jasta> He said "is", not "will be".
Aug 17 23:19:35 <tomgibara_> But I'm not going to apportion any blame until the dust settles
Aug 17 23:19:43 <jasta> Android "will be" an open project, would not have weighed the same as "is" to me.
Aug 17 23:19:47 <tomgibara_> jasta: That's a very valid point actually
Aug 17 23:19:58 <jasta> If any of you remember, I was the one in this channel early on saying "Man, they better release source by February.  What the fuck is this?"
Aug 17 23:20:17 <ttuttle> jasta: Hmm.  That's a good point.
Aug 17 23:20:20 <jasta> But I was already more than half way into my project at the time.
Aug 17 23:20:31 <jasta> Then they extended the damn thing, so now I have to operate on faith for just a "short while longer"
Aug 17 23:20:40 <jasta> then NOTHING said at all after Apr 14, so my faith is extended yet again.
Aug 17 23:21:03 <jasta> Until finally my faith and patience broke.  And now I revisit some of their initial promises and try to understand how the hell they got me into this mess.
Aug 17 23:21:16 <tomgibara_> You see, I never took the contents of that particular video too seriously - no offense to Sergey
Aug 17 23:21:17 <jasta> How the hell they fooled me so easily.
Aug 17 23:22:18 <jasta> I had nothing but genuine excitement until about...ohh...May 15th.
Aug 17 23:22:28 <tomgibara_> My calculation was: Google needs an open platform (in the sense that it's totally open to developers), carriers and manufaturers will only take it if its free (in the full sense), so android will be OS
Aug 17 23:22:34 <jasta> When I finally started to realize what an elaborate hoax this really was.
Aug 17 23:22:41 <ttuttle> jasta: It's not an "elaborate hoax".
Aug 17 23:22:58 <jasta> Well, I didn't literally mean that it was malicious deceipt.
Aug 17 23:23:07 <jasta> I actually think it was bumbling incompetence all along.
Aug 17 23:23:19 <ttuttle> jasta: s/bumbling incompetence/realities of business/;
Aug 17 23:23:42 <jasta> Aren't those interchangable always?
Aug 17 23:23:46 <ttuttle> No.
Aug 17 23:23:48 <tomgibara_> ttuttle: I think they are very close to the same thing
Aug 17 23:24:08 <ttuttle> They had three things to do: 1. Write platform. 2. Get platform on phone(s). 3. Open source platform.
Aug 17 23:24:23 <ttuttle> They did them in that order, instead of 1. Write platform. 2. Open source platform. 3. Get platform on phone(s).
Aug 17 23:24:33 <tomgibara_> ttuttle: and so far we know nothing about any of those!
Aug 17 23:24:41 <ttuttle> tomgibara_: :-(
Aug 17 23:24:46 <tomgibara_> How complete is the platform?
Aug 17 23:24:51 * ttuttle can't tell.
Aug 17 23:24:59 <tomgibara_> What phones are using the platform?
Aug 17 23:24:59 <jasta> tomgibara_ is under NDA too
Aug 17 23:25:07 <ttuttle> jasta: It's a different NDA.
Aug 17 23:25:08 <jasta> fyi ttuttle.
Aug 17 23:25:15 <jasta> Oh right, you're that intern
Aug 17 23:25:21 <tomgibara_> Where are the protocols for how I can contribute back to the Android code base?
Aug 17 23:25:28 <jasta> Now I really want to strangle you :)
Aug 17 23:25:31 <ttuttle> jasta: Sorry.
Aug 17 23:26:03 <jasta> tomgibara_: That last one by the way is a hot button for me.
Aug 17 23:26:16 <tomgibara_> Yes, I think that's the biggest issue of all
Aug 17 23:26:17 <Dougie187> ttuttle: your at google?
Aug 17 23:26:21 <ttuttle> Dougie187: I was, over the summer.
Aug 17 23:26:26 <ttuttle> Dougie187: My last day was August 8.
Aug 17 23:26:54 <Dougie187> with android?
Aug 17 23:26:57 <jasta> tomgibara_: I bet they will, unsurprisingly, disappoint.
Aug 17 23:26:58 <ttuttle> Yeah.
Aug 17 23:27:02 <Dougie187> heh
Aug 17 23:27:13 <Dougie187> well... just in case you haven't figured it out yet.
Aug 17 23:27:17 <Dougie187> jasta loves to argue.
Aug 17 23:27:21 <Dougie187> and he can go forever.
Aug 17 23:27:23 <ttuttle> Dougie187: I know.  So do I. :-)
Aug 17 23:27:27 <jasta> tomgibara_: It will probably be that only Google employees have write access for all time, and that contributions will generally not be open to much serious discussion.
Aug 17 23:27:37 <Dougie187> and he typically has his arguments well laid out.
Aug 17 23:27:42 <tomgibara_> ttuttle: You didn't implement the emulator -nojni switch by any chance did you?
Aug 17 23:27:47 <ttuttle> tomgibara_: No.
Aug 17 23:27:53 <ttuttle> tomgibara_: Why?
Aug 17 23:27:56 <tomgibara_> jk
Aug 17 23:27:57 <jasta> tomgibara_: heheh
Aug 17 23:28:07 <jasta> Oh man, if he had... ;)
Aug 17 23:28:16 <ttuttle> (I've never used it?  Is it broken?)
Aug 17 23:28:29 * ttuttle keeps putting random (wrong) punctuation at the end of sentences^
Aug 17 23:28:33 <jasta> ttuttle: I was babbling a few days ago about how it seemed to be written by some goober intern because it was poorly named and seems not to work.
Aug 17 23:28:37 <tomgibara_> Just poorly named, jasta blamed an anonymous intern
Aug 17 23:28:44 <ttuttle> jasta: Hey, interns aren't all dumb!
Aug 17 23:28:53 <Dougie187> well interns are interns
Aug 17 23:28:58 <Dougie187> they are the easiest to blame for ever
Aug 17 23:29:01 <Dougie187> as they don't have a voice.
Aug 17 23:29:06 <Dougie187> since they are interns.
Aug 17 23:29:10 <jasta> I started out as an intern at a software company working for the navy when I was 16...
Aug 17 23:29:13 <ttuttle> Okay, I guess you can make me the official scapegoat of #android if you want ;-)
Aug 17 23:29:34 <Dougie187> lol well if you are the scapegoat of #android you get a bunch more baggage than just that.
Aug 17 23:29:43 <jasta> Those crazy idiots let me into production code within 6 months of working there.
Aug 17 23:29:44 <Dougie187> you carry all the android problems.
Aug 17 23:29:45 <Dougie187> lol
Aug 17 23:29:54 <ttuttle> jasta: 6 months?  Try 1 week.
Aug 17 23:30:09 <ttuttle> jasta: I had a week of orientation in Mountain View, and off I went.  (Under supervision, of course.)
Aug 17 23:30:20 <jasta> What did you work on?
Aug 17 23:30:34 <gambler> the new microblogging API
Aug 17 23:30:43 <gambler> j/k ttutle
Aug 17 23:30:50 <ttuttle> Some process/memory utilities, lots of app bugfixes, and some really neat telephony stuff.
Aug 17 23:30:57 <ttuttle> I'll point it out once it's released.
Aug 17 23:31:00 <ttuttle> gambler: lol
Aug 17 23:31:35 <Dougie187> i hope its a fax reader.
Aug 17 23:31:44 <ttuttle> Ooh, that's a cool idea.
Aug 17 23:32:03 <Dougie187> hell yeah. i had that idea a while ago.
Aug 17 23:32:20 <Dougie187> but jtapi 2.0 is not out yet and i dont know if android supports it.
Aug 17 23:32:24 <jasta> man i have wasted half my afternoon ranting in here
Aug 17 23:32:31 <yakischloba> well i'm certainly waiting until after android comes out, to do much further work on my app
Aug 17 23:32:33 <Dougie187> but i thought it would be sweet to make your phone accept faxes.
Aug 17 23:32:42 * ttuttle does hope Android does eventually end up with a thriving open source community, and rainbows everywhere.
Aug 17 23:32:44 <yakischloba> jasta: not missing much, with it being so damn cloudy today
Aug 17 23:32:46 <ttuttle> It'd be nice.
Aug 17 23:33:01 <jasta> ttuttle: It won't without a lot of hard work on Google's part.  Work I don't know if Google's prepared to do.
Aug 17 23:33:15 <jasta> Free software is a lot more than just dropping source, as I said.  It's about treating outsiders with the same privilege as insiders.
Aug 17 23:33:19 <jasta> And that is hard for companies to do.
Aug 17 23:33:23 <jasta> Impossible for most.
Aug 17 23:33:33 <ttuttle> Ooh, JTAPI looks nifty.
Aug 17 23:33:46 * ttuttle checks the public SDK docs before commenting on anything.
Aug 17 23:33:53 <Dougie187> heh
Aug 17 23:33:56 <Dougie187> I thought it looked cool.
Aug 17 23:34:00 <jasta> yakischloba: It's cloudy, but like a thousand degrees.  what the hell is with this weekend?
Aug 17 23:34:04 <Dougie187> i wanted to write an app for that a while ago
Aug 17 23:34:11 <Dougie187> but i didnt think android supported it.
Aug 17 23:34:16 <Dougie187> so i figured it would be a waste of time.
Aug 17 23:34:16 <jasta> Dougie187: you need to code up my electric fence idea :)
Aug 17 23:34:29 <ttuttle> Dougie187: /me wonders how hard it would be to write a translation layer.
Aug 17 23:34:30 <Dougie187> yeah.... too bad im lazy right now. but i do want to do that at some point.
Aug 17 23:34:37 <ttuttle> Dougie187: All that's in the public SDK is android.telephony.*;
Aug 17 23:34:40 <yakischloba> jasta: I duno. I sweated my ass off all day and all night. Then it cooled down for a couple hours this morning and now its back up. I figured it was sunny, being so damn hot, until I looked out the window
Aug 17 23:35:00 <jasta> yakischloba: i was sweating just making breakfast this morning hehe
Aug 17 23:35:02 <jasta> it sucked
Aug 17 23:35:07 <Dougie187> well i thought that app would be retardedly useful for businessmen.
Aug 17 23:35:13 <Dougie187> i even told romain about it a while back.
Aug 17 23:35:18 <Dougie187> though i dont know what he can do about it.
Aug 17 23:35:41 <ttuttle> Dougie187: It's probably filed away along with all the other "when we get to it" bugs ;-)
Aug 17 23:35:51 <tomgibara_> Dougie187: " retardedly usefu" <- great phrase
Aug 17 23:35:57 <tomgibara_> *useful
Aug 17 23:36:39 <Dougie187> heh
Aug 17 23:37:30 <tomgibara_> Combined with the word businessmen, it has a wonderfully ambiguous quality, I think
Aug 17 23:37:37 <jasta> retardedly useful does certainly apply to faxes.
Aug 17 23:37:39 <jasta> ;)
Aug 17 23:42:37 <ttuttle> Ooh!
Aug 17 23:42:43 <ttuttle> We should start a betting pool on the next SDK release.
Aug 17 23:43:01 <ttuttle> (I'd be disqualified, of course.)
Aug 18 00:24:24 <meoblast001> hi everyone
Aug 18 00:30:33 <ttuttle> meoblast001: hi
Aug 18 00:30:49 <meoblast001> how are you today ttuttle
Aug 18 00:30:59 <ttuttle> I'm wonderful.
Aug 18 00:31:16 <meoblast001> im adding multiplayer to a game i make
Aug 18 00:31:28 <meoblast001> and maybe after the next release i'll port it to android
Aug 18 00:31:31 <meoblast001> but its done in C++
Aug 18 00:31:40 <meoblast001> does android support SDL?
Aug 18 00:31:46 <ttuttle> I'm not sure.
Aug 18 00:45:56 <michaelnovakjr__> meoblast001: what game?
Aug 18 00:46:21 <meoblast001> michaelnovakjr__: its called mOX
Aug 18 00:46:25 <meoblast001> very primitive
Aug 18 00:46:36 <michaelnovakjr__> link?
Aug 18 00:46:37 <meoblast001> the current release was released last November
Aug 18 00:46:41 <meoblast001> www.mysticgalaxies.com
Aug 18 00:46:51 <meoblast001> its in the products > games section
Aug 18 00:46:54 <meoblast001> its free
Aug 18 00:48:31 <michaelnovakjr__> can't click the link in IE
Aug 18 00:48:35 <michaelnovakjr__> the site is a bit off
Aug 18 00:48:48 <meoblast001> its off?
Aug 18 00:49:17 <michaelnovakjr__> yea, the positioning is all screwed up
Aug 18 00:49:26 <meoblast001> it shouldnt be that bad
Aug 18 00:49:30 <meoblast001> unless you have ie 5.5
Aug 18 00:49:46 <meoblast001> what version do you have?
Aug 18 00:49:50 <michaelnovakjr__> 7
Aug 18 00:49:54 <meoblast001> strange
Aug 18 00:49:57 <meoblast001> do you have firefox?
Aug 18 00:50:19 <michaelnovakjr__> have to check if i installed it on this machine
Aug 18 00:52:24 <michaelnovakjr__> not installed yet
Aug 18 00:52:32 <meoblast001> =/
Aug 18 00:52:37 <meoblast001> what page isnt working?
Aug 18 00:53:06 <michaelnovakjr__> the homepage
Aug 18 00:58:03 <meoblast001> O_o
Aug 18 00:58:15 <meoblast001> michaelnovakjr__: do you have strange rendering settings
Aug 18 00:58:31 <meoblast001> my site was tested on all major browsers
Aug 18 00:59:31 <meoblast001> michaelnovakjr__: http://mysticgalaxies.com/products/games/mox.html
Aug 18 00:59:56 <michaelnovakjr__> what is that
Aug 18 01:00:19 <meoblast001> its a tic tac toe game i made
Aug 18 01:16:59 <meoblast001> michaelnovakjr__: its Linux only atm
Aug 18 01:18:39 <michaelnovakjr__> is it a school project?
Aug 18 01:20:47 <jasta> michaelnovakjr__: did you ever get around to trying out my solitaire game on the vogue?
Aug 18 01:21:01 <michaelnovakjr__> yea.... :)
Aug 18 01:21:06 <jasta> how did it play?
Aug 18 01:21:09 <michaelnovakjr__> just what i needed for the train
Aug 18 01:21:20 <michaelnovakjr__> it played well
Aug 18 01:21:26 <jasta> i fully generalized it.  working on freecell now.
Aug 18 01:21:32 <michaelnovakjr__> awesome
Aug 18 01:21:48 <jasta> i need to improve drawing, add some animations, some other niceties, then its basically a production quality game.
Aug 18 01:22:04 <jasta> i'm working on a new UI mechanism to "hold" stacks of cards.
Aug 18 01:22:10 <michaelnovakjr__> nice
Aug 18 01:22:13 <jasta> more than just the card stack selection in Klondike
Aug 18 01:24:38 <jasta> i wouldn't mind help if you feel so inclined :)
Aug 18 01:25:00 <michaelnovakjr__> i'm getting into the habit committing atomically
Aug 18 01:25:15 <michaelnovakjr__> sure, i can help :)
Aug 18 01:25:31 <jasta> the most obvious component that needs work is the card drawing :)
Aug 18 01:25:51 <jasta> but i also need an undo mechanism (this seems easy, but then the more i think about it i'm not sure how i want to generalize it)
Aug 18 01:26:02 <jasta> also, i need a win animation of some kind.
Aug 18 01:26:21 <jasta> and i also need animations when moving cards automatically.  the "autoplay" functionality happens so suddenly that it seems to startle users.
Aug 18 01:26:25 <michaelnovakjr__> a cool card animation
Aug 18 01:26:45 <jasta> aisleriot has a good approach to autoplay animation.  basically, it just pauses a fraction of a second between moves
Aug 18 01:27:18 <jasta> this is especially nice to see when it autoplays you to a winm
Aug 18 01:27:19 <jasta> win*
Aug 18 01:27:31 <jasta> it seems to shuffle them up instead of just instantly saying YOU WIN!
Aug 18 01:28:01 <jasta> right now i have no code not in subversion, though Freecell isn't implemented.  that's what i'm working on now.
Aug 18 01:28:10 <gambler> what is the best/simplest java ORM layer
Aug 18 01:28:12 <jasta> anyway, let me know if you want to work on somethin :)
Aug 18 01:28:17 <michaelnovakjr__> definitely
Aug 18 01:28:28 <jasta> take your pick of the above :)
Aug 18 01:28:34 <jasta> or you could implement a new game if you prefer
Aug 18 01:28:45 <Dougie187> go for camelot.
Aug 18 01:28:45 <Dougie187> lol
Aug 18 01:28:47 <jasta> though i dont think i should do lots of games just yet. t he engine still needs to be perfected (animations, etc)
Aug 18 01:29:30 <jasta> i think my game abstraction is 1 layer too thin currently.  the games themselves (klondike, freecell, etc) manage the card stack views somewhat directly.
Aug 18 01:29:45 <jasta> and i dont think thats quite right, but i can't currently come up with something better :)
Aug 18 01:30:04 <michaelnovakjr__> i'll dig in this week and check some stuff out
Aug 18 01:30:18 <jasta> cool
Aug 18 01:30:48 <meoblast001> i have a question
Aug 18 01:30:55 <meoblast001> hi jasta
Aug 18 01:30:59 <jasta> yes?
Aug 18 01:31:01 <meoblast001> i recognize your name from somewhere
Aug 18 01:31:07 <meoblast001> i think Five or something
Aug 18 01:31:07 <michaelnovakjr__> have fun jasta :)
Aug 18 01:31:18 <jasta> i wrote Five.
Aug 18 01:31:32 <Dougie187> lol
Aug 18 01:31:34 <meoblast001> jasta: i've been looking for a precompiled version =P
Aug 18 01:31:36 <jasta> and loads of other things
Aug 18 01:31:41 <meoblast001> i get compiling errors
Aug 18 01:31:53 <jasta> the project builds clean if you follow the build instructions.
Aug 18 01:32:01 <michaelnovakjr__> :)
Aug 18 01:32:14 <meoblast001> i tried
Aug 18 01:32:15 <jasta> but when there is a stable release, i will of course have precompiled versions available :)
Aug 18 01:32:26 <meoblast001> my question though
Aug 18 01:32:30 <meoblast001> uhhh
Aug 18 01:32:47 <meoblast001> why doesnt google want ppl putting Android on any old phone
Aug 18 01:33:00 <Dougie187> just so you know.
Aug 18 01:33:02 <meoblast001> why do they want to force ppl to buy a new phone
Aug 18 01:33:06 <Dougie187> five is not a google product.
Aug 18 01:33:11 <meoblast001> i know
Aug 18 01:33:15 <Dougie187> and therefore, jasta is not a google rep.
Aug 18 01:33:15 <Dougie187> lol
Aug 18 01:33:16 <meoblast001> five is seperate
Aug 18 01:33:16 <michaelnovakjr__> meoblast001: its not going to run nicely
Aug 18 01:33:22 <ttuttle> meoblast001: Um, it's not really possible to install a new OS on a random phone.
Aug 18 01:33:33 <meoblast001> how do ppl do it then?
Aug 18 01:33:38 <michaelnovakjr__> they dont :)
Aug 18 01:33:43 <meoblast001> i heard lots of reports of ppl getting it to run on other phones
Aug 18 01:33:47 <michaelnovakjr__> the phone has to support linux in some way
Aug 18 01:33:54 <jasta> meoblast001: it's nothing to do with what Google wants.  it's everything to do with the fact that phones are custom pieces of hardware and software which must be carefully tied together.
Aug 18 01:33:55 <ttuttle> == michaelnovakjr__
Aug 18 01:34:07 <meoblast001> oh
Aug 18 01:34:15 <ttuttle> If Google could wave a magic wand and make Android work on current phones, I'm *sure* they would.
Aug 18 01:34:22 <meoblast001> well.... im allowed to get a new phone in april.... and i want to make it one with android
Aug 18 01:34:29 <meoblast001> so i hope android is stable by then
Aug 18 01:34:29 <jasta> meoblast001: clever hackers are capable of lots of things.  including hacking linux onto phones that don't support it.
Aug 18 01:34:51 <jasta> meoblast001: allowed?  what are you 12? :)
Aug 18 01:34:57 <michaelnovakjr__> haha
Aug 18 01:35:23 <meoblast001> jasta: 15
Aug 18 01:35:35 <michaelnovakjr__> jeez, they get younger and younger
Aug 18 01:35:42 <jasta> yeah, now i feel old
Aug 18 01:35:48 <jasta> thanks a lot meoblast001.
Aug 18 01:35:50 <Dougie187> as do i.
Aug 18 01:35:51 <meoblast001> im not a very good programmer
Aug 18 01:35:53 <meoblast001> i try though
Aug 18 01:36:16 <meoblast001> i've been messing around with Android emulator so i can get a feel for how it runs and stuff
Aug 18 01:36:26 <meoblast001> so i can maybe port my tic tac toe game to it
Aug 18 01:36:26 <Dougie187> i feel old at work though
Aug 18 01:36:34 <Dougie187> im working with freaking 19-20 year old kids.
Aug 18 01:36:41 <michaelnovakjr__> meoblast001: i think someone did already
Aug 18 01:36:51 <meoblast001> no they didnt O_O
Aug 18 01:36:55 <meoblast001> anyways
Aug 18 01:36:59 <meoblast001> its not MY tic tac toe game
Aug 18 01:37:12 <meoblast001> but i need Android to run SDL
Aug 18 01:37:14 <michaelnovakjr__> tic tac toe is tic tac toe :)
Aug 18 01:37:14 <meoblast001> and i dont know if it does
Aug 18 01:37:15 <jasta> when i was 15, i released Gnapster.
Aug 18 01:37:27 <michaelnovakjr__> meoblast001: huh? why?
Aug 18 01:37:43 <meoblast001> jasta: no you didnt lol
Aug 18 01:37:48 <jasta> yes, i did.
Aug 18 01:38:09 <meoblast001> michaelnovakjr: because thats what my game uses
Aug 18 01:38:17 <meoblast001> jasta: i tried Gnapster... didnt like it
Aug 18 01:38:19 <michaelnovakjr__> http://freshmeat.net/projects/gnapster/
Aug 18 01:38:22 <meoblast001> and how old are you jasta
Aug 18 01:38:25 <jasta> i fully reverse engineered the protocol and created the first linux client to Napster.  then helped create opennap, and generalized away from the Napster servers.
Aug 18 01:38:41 <jasta> meoblast001: well thanks, but i was 15, so...
Aug 18 01:38:52 <meoblast001> jasta: its not that i didnt like it really... as much as not what i was looking for
Aug 18 01:38:53 <meoblast001> sorry
Aug 18 01:38:56 <meoblast001> i worded that wrong
Aug 18 01:39:05 <meoblast001> made it sound like i hated it
Aug 18 01:39:12 <jasta> well you would have been 5.  so.
Aug 18 01:39:20 <jasta> i wouldnt think it was what you were looking for.
Aug 18 01:39:22 <meoblast001> i was looking for a way to use Napster store in Linux
Aug 18 01:39:22 <michaelnovakjr__> its a bit more of an app than a tic tac toe game
Aug 18 01:39:35 <meoblast001> what is?
Aug 18 01:39:36 <Dougie187> lol
Aug 18 01:39:45 <michaelnovakjr__> yea jasta, i can't see him using the original napster :)
Aug 18 01:39:46 <Dougie187> man more and more arguments in here.
Aug 18 01:39:47 <Dougie187> lol
Aug 18 01:39:47 <jasta> meoblast001: i'm 25 by the way.  so i did this 10 years ago.
Aug 18 01:39:58 <meoblast001> oh
Aug 18 01:39:59 <Dougie187> i thought you were younger then that jasta.
Aug 18 01:40:08 <Dougie187> michaelnovakjr__: is 22 if i remember correctly.
Aug 18 01:40:11 <jasta> no, i just turned 25 this summer.
Aug 18 01:40:14 <michaelnovakjr__> jeez Dougie187 make him feel old
Aug 18 01:40:14 <Dougie187> cool
Aug 18 01:40:22 <michaelnovakjr__> :)
Aug 18 01:40:24 <Dougie187> well for some reason i thought he was younger then me.
Aug 18 01:40:42 <jasta> i feel old, though.  i feel weird going to college bars now.
Aug 18 01:40:53 <Dougie187> ive always felt weird going to college bars.
Aug 18 01:40:54 <jasta> and i am an uncle
Aug 18 01:40:57 <Dougie187> even when i was in college.
Aug 18 01:40:59 <michaelnovakjr__> jasta, don't worry.... i always have :)
Aug 18 01:41:08 <michaelnovakjr__> haha
Aug 18 01:41:24 <jasta> what makes me feel old most of all, though, is the realization that i am entirely independent.
Aug 18 01:41:31 <meoblast001> i want to go to college bars
Aug 18 01:41:42 <Dougie187> lol meoblast001 no you dont...
Aug 18 01:41:47 <michaelnovakjr__> yea, you don't
Aug 18 01:41:51 <Dougie187> not worth it
Aug 18 01:41:54 <Dougie187> save your time.
Aug 18 01:41:57 <jasta> like, whenever i got on trips.  it hits me that i planned and paid for it entirely on my own.
Aug 18 01:41:59 <meoblast001> im never going to ever have a girlfreind or wife... science prooves it =P
Aug 18 01:42:01 <jasta> that makes me feel old :)
Aug 18 01:42:01 <Dougie187> if you wanna drink with friends, throw a party.
Aug 18 01:42:12 <Dougie187> lol what kinda science are you talking about?
Aug 18 01:42:29 <meoblast001> phsychological stuff
Aug 18 01:42:33 <jasta> meoblast001: i had a girlfriend when i was your age too.  you're not off to a good start, buddy :)
Aug 18 01:42:43 <Dougie187> i had a girlfriend when i was his age too.
Aug 18 01:42:52 <michaelnovakjr__> haha
Aug 18 01:42:52 <meoblast001> jasta: well duh.. Asperger's Syndrom is never a good start
Aug 18 01:43:00 <jasta> she's hot now, too.  i ran into her about a year ago.
Aug 18 01:43:01 <Dougie187> i guess your insinuating that we are all single?
Aug 18 01:43:12 <jasta> i mean, everyone is goofy looking when they're 15 :)
Aug 18 01:43:16 <meoblast001> im always gonna be single
Aug 18 01:43:28 <jasta> meoblast001: probably, you will be.
Aug 18 01:43:30 <Dougie187> well, i guess if you keep thinking like that you will.
Aug 18 01:43:44 <jasta> women love confidence, you just ooze it ;)
Aug 18 01:43:58 <meoblast001> jasta: yup..... its quite sad but i try to repress it
Aug 18 01:44:05 <Dougie187> its all up to you if your going to be single.
Aug 18 01:44:12 <michaelnovakjr__> meoblast001: that is a cop out
Aug 18 01:44:17 <jasta> i really dont want to have this conversation right now.
Aug 18 01:44:18 <jasta> do either of you?
Aug 18 01:44:21 <michaelnovakjr__> na
Aug 18 01:44:23 <Dougie187> lol no.
Aug 18 01:44:25 <jasta> ok, then lets not :)
Aug 18 01:44:28 <Dougie187> i just felt like i was in highschool.
Aug 18 01:44:29 <Dougie187> lol
Aug 18 01:44:37 <meoblast001> i'll save it for #wrongplanet =P
Aug 18 01:44:46 <jasta> yeah, if anything, we're too old. hehe
Aug 18 01:44:46 <meoblast001> i have this stuff in common with them
Aug 18 01:45:08 <michaelnovakjr__> haah Dougie187, weird isn't it
Aug 18 01:45:12 <Dougie187> that is it.
Aug 18 01:45:22 <Dougie187> michaelnovakjr__: are you married?
Aug 18 01:45:28 <Dougie187> i always forget that tidbit.
Aug 18 01:45:32 <michaelnovakjr__> 363 days away
Aug 18 01:45:36 <Dougie187> hah
Aug 18 01:45:40 <jasta> you fool!
Aug 18 01:45:42 <Dougie187> 2 days ago was 1 year away?
Aug 18 01:45:44 <michaelnovakjr__> haha
Aug 18 01:45:47 <Dougie187> pfft, dont listen to jasta.
Aug 18 01:45:49 <michaelnovakjr__> Dougie187: good point
Aug 18 01:45:57 <Dougie187> in 3 years hes going to say "Im always going to be single"
Aug 18 01:45:59 <michaelnovakjr__> Dougie187 is a math freak
Aug 18 01:45:59 <jasta> setting a wedding date 365 days away always seems like an infinite amount of time
Aug 18 01:46:02 <jasta> but it's NOT!
Aug 18 01:46:05 <jasta> ;)
Aug 18 01:46:10 <meoblast001> lol
Aug 18 01:46:13 <michaelnovakjr__> it was set about 7 months ago :)
Aug 18 01:46:21 <jasta> you're doomed! hehe
Aug 18 01:46:25 <Dougie187> yeah we were engaged for 1.5 years before we got married.
Aug 18 01:46:36 <michaelnovakjr__> Dougie187: that's about what it'll be for me
Aug 18 01:46:40 <jasta> Becky and I talk marriage sometimes, but we probably won't for the next couple of years.
Aug 18 01:46:40 <meoblast001> will i ever get engaged?
Aug 18 01:47:00 <Dougie187> its fun.
Aug 18 01:47:02 <Dougie187> i like being married.
Aug 18 01:47:05 <meoblast001> i learned a valueable lesson
Aug 18 01:47:15 <meoblast001> wikihow doesnt teach you everything
Aug 18 01:47:19 <Dougie187> been almost 2 years.
Aug 18 01:47:24 <michaelnovakjr__> jasta: at least i wont have to cook :)
Aug 18 01:47:24 <jasta> Dougie187: i can't figure out why your wife lets you have so much time to screw off and play diablo2 :)
Aug 18 01:47:30 <Dougie187> hah
Aug 18 01:47:34 <Dougie187> she watches tv while i do that.
Aug 18 01:47:36 <jasta> my gf has a tight grip on my free time :)
Aug 18 01:47:42 <Dougie187> well thats because your not married.
Aug 18 01:47:46 <meoblast001> my gf is non existant
Aug 18 01:47:48 <Dougie187> once you get married the grip lets up
Aug 18 01:47:49 <michaelnovakjr__> jasta, does she have a hobby?
Aug 18 01:47:59 <jasta> michaelnovakjr__: not really.  she needs to get one.
Aug 18 01:48:05 <michaelnovakjr__> yea jasta, that is the key
Aug 18 01:48:08 <Dougie187> get her a book on scrapbooking.
Aug 18 01:48:12 <Dougie187> the ladies love that.
Aug 18 01:48:16 <jasta> the problem is that all our friends are mutual
Aug 18 01:48:23 <meoblast001> i hate thinking about my social problems
Aug 18 01:48:26 <michaelnovakjr__> that's where my free time is from.... her hobby keeping her busy :)
Aug 18 01:48:29 <jasta> so, i can't really pawn her off on a friend, because theyre my friends too and i want to see them when she does.
Aug 18 01:48:38 <michaelnovakjr__> Dougie187: scrapbooking is genius
Aug 18 01:48:48 <Dougie187> totally.
Aug 18 01:48:53 <Dougie187> my wife loves scrapbooking.
Aug 18 01:48:54 <jasta> oh yeah, becky likes to sew and scrapbook, but she has supplies fro neither right now
Aug 18 01:48:56 <Dougie187> i dont know a girl who doesnt.
Aug 18 01:48:59 <michaelnovakjr__> there's about 50 lying around here
Aug 18 01:49:02 <Dougie187> well buy her some.
Aug 18 01:49:05 <Dougie187> those are cheap as hell
Aug 18 01:49:17 <meoblast001> i was just told God hates me
Aug 18 01:49:18 <Dougie187> its not like your short for cash or anything.
Aug 18 01:49:22 <michaelnovakjr__> you can go with her and pay.... she'll leave you alone for a while :)
Aug 18 01:49:27 <jasta> i just got a sense for a second there that we're stereotyping women badly :)
Aug 18 01:49:31 <Dougie187> thats disappoing meoblast001
Aug 18 01:49:33 <michaelnovakjr__> haha
Aug 18 01:49:43 <michaelnovakjr__> jasta, its quite accurate
Aug 18 01:49:44 <jasta> meoblast001: i am starting to hate you too.  be quiet more.
Aug 18 01:49:48 <Dougie187> anyways. im out guys.
Aug 18 01:49:55 <michaelnovakjr__> enjoy
Aug 18 01:49:55 <meoblast001> jasta: i get that a lot
Aug 18 01:50:04 <Dougie187> lol
Aug 18 01:50:08 <Dougie187> meoleave.
Aug 18 01:50:08 <Dougie187> hah
Aug 18 01:50:11 <Dougie187> anyways.
Aug 18 01:50:14 <michaelnovakjr__> weird-o
Aug 18 01:50:17 <Dougie187> have a good evening.
Aug 18 01:50:20 <jasta> that must mean he was blasting before.
Aug 18 01:50:21 <Dougie187> all 15 year olds are weird.
Aug 18 01:50:21 <michaelnovakjr__> you too
Aug 18 01:50:29 <Dougie187> you were weird at 15.
Aug 18 01:50:31 <Dougie187> so was i.
Aug 18 01:50:39 <Dougie187> at that age its all video games and porn.
Aug 18 01:50:41 <michaelnovakjr__> he said he was a part of the ubuntu project
Aug 18 01:50:49 <Dougie187> anyways.
Aug 18 01:50:50 <michaelnovakjr__> weird dude
Aug 18 01:50:51 <jasta> i believe that ;)
Aug 18 01:50:52 <Dougie187> see ya
Aug 18 01:50:53 <michaelnovakjr__> haha
Aug 18 01:51:03 <michaelnovakjr__> especially after seeing the tic tac toe game :)
Aug 18 01:51:25 <jasta> i don't often think about my childhood.  i just did, thoughl.
Aug 18 01:51:27 <jasta> though*
Aug 18 01:51:34 <jasta> i much prefer being an adult
Aug 18 01:51:37 <michaelnovakjr__> yea
Aug 18 01:51:39 <yakischloba> shits in the past, better to keep it there.
Aug 18 01:51:47 <michaelnovakjr__> well put
Aug 18 01:52:12 <yakischloba> and not have little kids around being awkward to remind us of it ;)
Aug 18 01:52:21 <jasta> it's funny to me how easily you can detect age on IRC :)
Aug 18 01:52:35 <jasta> not even spoken word; just text.  and yet, it's so obvious.
Aug 18 01:52:56 <michaelnovakjr__> yea
Aug 18 01:52:56 <yakischloba> yeah well, he made it *really* easy
Aug 18 01:53:01 <michaelnovakjr__> haha
Aug 18 01:53:13 <jasta> well, he said "allowed".  his diction told us everything :)
Aug 18 01:53:31 <michaelnovakjr__> yea
Aug 18 01:54:54 <jasta> i wonder if there's some 60 year old guy lurking in here thinking to himself, "youngins..."
Aug 18 01:55:15 <yakischloba> <cough> Dan </cough>
Aug 18 01:55:45 <jasta> I met Dan in person.  I'm pretty sure he's inside of 60.  Between 40 and 60. :)
Aug 18 01:56:12 <yakischloba> heh. early 40's probably but I had to poke fun.
Aug 18 01:56:48 <jasta> Seriously?
Aug 18 01:56:52 <jasta> Dan is like 25.
Aug 18 01:57:18 <yakischloba> No, not seriously. I don't think hes 25 though.
Aug 18 01:57:29 <jasta> I'm mostly certain he is.
Aug 18 01:57:34 <jasta> He looks like a young guy.
Aug 18 01:57:36 <michaelnovakjr__> yea, i get that impression
Aug 18 01:57:42 <yakischloba> hmm
Aug 18 01:57:52 <jasta> If he's 40, he moisturizes VERY well.
Aug 18 01:57:54 <jasta> ;)
Aug 18 01:57:57 <michaelnovakjr__> haha
Aug 18 01:58:04 <yakischloba> maybe I'm wrong then. I've just seen a couple videos of android talks
Aug 18 01:58:06 <yakischloba> lol
Aug 18 01:58:15 <jasta> oh he sure acts 40
Aug 18 01:58:23 <jasta> you must have just been thrown off ;)
Aug 18 01:58:28 <yakischloba> ;)
Aug 18 01:58:36 <michaelnovakjr__> that is very possible
Aug 18 01:59:02 <jasta> man, we are all being bastards today
Aug 18 01:59:23 <michaelnovakjr__> haha
Aug 18 01:59:29 <michaelnovakjr__> i've been all weeekend
Aug 18 01:59:34 <jasta> i was really upset that weekend i found out i ddin't win the first round of the ADC
Aug 18 01:59:45 <jasta> so i went on a trip with my gf to relax
Aug 18 02:00:12 <michaelnovakjr__> i was talking to muthu and annoyed him because he said learning new languages isn't fun anymore
Aug 18 02:00:17 <jasta> and some stupid hotel clerk decided to incite my rage.
Aug 18 02:00:22 <michaelnovakjr__> i asked which ones he knew and said it wasn't important
Aug 18 02:00:46 <jasta> i yelled at that guy a lot.  i felt sorta bad after.
Aug 18 02:01:00 <michaelnovakjr__> it happens]
Aug 18 02:01:08 <jasta> there was like this massive hotel-wide party going on until 3 in the morning
Aug 18 02:01:17 <jasta> i called several times to complain and the lazy bastard didn't do shit about it
Aug 18 02:01:22 <jasta> so i called him to complain one more time and he hung up on me
Aug 18 02:01:27 <michaelnovakjr__> ouch
Aug 18 02:01:29 <jasta> so i stromed down there and aboslutely ripped him a new one
Aug 18 02:01:56 <jasta> i checked out at 3am and drove from Portland to Seattle home too.  I was fueled by rage hehe
Aug 18 02:02:12 <jasta> made him credit my room, and then i later followed up and got 3 free nights stay at that hotel chain
Aug 18 02:02:18 <michaelnovakjr__> damn
Aug 18 02:02:35 <jasta> it was not the day to piss me off.  unfortunately for him, he didn't know that ;)
Aug 18 02:02:50 <michaelnovakjr__> yea
Aug 18 02:03:06 <jasta> he was this really slobby looking guy
Aug 18 02:03:15 <jasta> his hair was all greesy and his shirt was stained, that type of thing
Aug 18 02:03:21 <jasta> greasy*
Aug 18 02:03:22 <michaelnovakjr__> they usually are :)
Aug 18 02:03:29 <jasta> he refused to give me his name so i could call his manager
Aug 18 02:03:46 <jasta> the choice quote i remember was saying "oh don't worry, you won't be hard to describe."
Aug 18 02:03:53 <michaelnovakjr__> haha
Aug 18 02:04:08 <meoblast001> Application Error: com.google.android.maps An error has occurred in com.google.android.maps.java.lang.NullPointerException.
Aug 18 02:04:14 <gambler> what was it a motel6?
Aug 18 02:04:25 <jasta> it was a travelodge or thriftlodge or whatever the hell it is.
Aug 18 02:04:36 <jasta> in the industrial district in Portland
Aug 18 02:05:09 <gambler> lol @ complaining in a place like that
Aug 18 02:05:16 <gambler> what did u expect him to do
Aug 18 02:05:23 <jasta> i expected him to call the police.
Aug 18 02:05:35 <jasta> instead he just called into a couple of rooms and asked them to be quiet.
Aug 18 02:05:40 <jasta> he didn't even physically go up there to talk to them
Aug 18 02:06:21 <gambler> u can almost always find sick hotel deals on the net nowadays...no need to stay in a place like that
Aug 18 02:06:22 <jasta> i started complaining at 1am, and this problem went on until 3.  i sat up baffled how this could be happening.
Aug 18 02:06:36 <jasta> gambler: i stayed there because i went to a concert a few blocks away
Aug 18 02:06:43 <jasta> i wanted to walk back to the hotel
Aug 18 02:06:58 <jasta> really, this type of thing won't happen if the hotel manager isn't a lazy piece of crap
Aug 18 02:07:11 <jasta> because the bottom line is that the police can and will respond to these types of calls.
Aug 18 02:07:18 <jasta> and nobody is going to argue with the police showing up.
Aug 18 02:07:27 <jasta> esp since it looked to me like underage drinking.
Aug 18 02:07:39 <michaelnovakjr__> damn minors
Aug 18 02:07:42 <michaelnovakjr__> always causing trouble
Aug 18 02:07:47 <jasta> yeah, if not, i probably would've been out there with them drinking :)
Aug 18 02:07:59 <jasta> but then when i saw that they all looked 16, i decided that they were too lame.
Aug 18 02:08:13 <gambler> last year my dad got a room at the bellagio that was pretty much the same as the one I was paying $900/night for
Aug 18 02:08:27 <gambler> I forget how much he payed but it was ridiculous
Aug 18 02:08:39 <michaelnovakjr__> oh yea... i forgot gambler is a high rolla
Aug 18 02:08:59 <michaelnovakjr__> gambler: that picture is priceless
Aug 18 02:09:01 <gambler> michaelnovakjr__, not usually but I was on business :p
Aug 18 02:10:17 <gambler> played in the WSOP...figured id live it up like a balla one time
Aug 18 02:10:52 <michaelnovakjr__> you have to tell me that picture really wasn't you
Aug 18 02:11:12 <gambler> hehehe, i wish I could be that cool
Aug 18 02:11:19 <michaelnovakjr__> that cool?
Aug 18 02:11:20 <jasta> what picture?
Aug 18 02:11:27 <gambler> the ninja kid
Aug 18 02:11:30 <michaelnovakjr__> gambler... link to jasta.... he must see
Aug 18 02:11:37 * jasta raises an eyebrow
Aug 18 02:11:46 <michaelnovakjr__> its like the malibu's most wanted guy
Aug 18 02:12:01 <jasta> oh, i have seen that.
Aug 18 02:12:58 <michaelnovakjr__> yea... a bit weird
Aug 18 02:13:28 <gambler> I posted alot of great content in this channel over a 2 day stretch about a week ago now
Aug 18 02:13:40 <jasta> you don't say?
Aug 18 02:13:41 <gambler> the praise wasnt forthcoming so i stopped the flow of the goodness
Aug 18 02:13:43 <michaelnovakjr__> great content?
Aug 18 02:15:47 <gambler> this for example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FWeD5KXx5WI
Aug 18 02:17:36 <gambler> http://www.collegehumor.com/video:1808306
Aug 18 02:18:03 <michaelnovakjr__> dude you are freaking weird
Aug 18 02:18:18 <yakischloba> hah
Aug 18 02:18:23 <jasta> haha
Aug 18 02:18:29 <jasta> that last one though.  what the fuck.
Aug 18 02:18:35 <jasta> but seriously, you are freaking weird
Aug 18 02:18:40 <yakischloba> jasta: thats the best one ;)
Aug 18 02:18:48 <michaelnovakjr__> yea. no kidding
Aug 18 02:18:54 <michaelnovakjr__> gambler: what goes through your head?
Aug 18 02:19:18 <gambler> michaelnovakjr__, beautiful thoughts
Aug 18 02:19:27 <michaelnovakjr__> twisted twisted mind
Aug 18 02:20:14 <gambler> sing it sister
Aug 18 02:21:27 <gambler> let me tell you...those pterodactyl suits are very warm to wear
Aug 18 02:21:33 <gambler> :p
Aug 18 02:21:43 <jasta> oh my god
Aug 18 02:23:32 <meoblast001> question for google
Aug 18 02:23:43 <jasta> google can't hear you
Aug 18 02:23:52 <meoblast001> do i get banned from youtube for commenting on someones video with every swear word in the book?\
Aug 18 02:25:03 <gambler> video first or it never happened
Aug 18 02:27:01 <jasta> http://www.collegehumor.com/picture:1826666 -- haha
Aug 18 02:27:07 <jasta> look carefully
Aug 18 02:27:40 <yakischloba> lol
Aug 18 02:30:39 <gambler> let
Aug 18 02:31:13 <gambler> lets get this done: http://tinyurl.com/nvkbride
Aug 18 02:33:48 <yakischloba> hah
Aug 18 02:33:56 <yakischloba> i was at work last time you linked me to that so I didn't watch it
Aug 18 02:34:04 <yakischloba> thats hilarious
Aug 18 02:35:04 <yakischloba> definitely made me lose my taste for chocolate cake though, at least for the moment
Aug 18 02:35:21 <gambler> u are a cyclist
Aug 18 02:35:24 <gambler> its better this way
Aug 18 02:35:45 <yakischloba> yeah. I have about 25lbs to drop over the winter so I should watch that every day.
Aug 18 02:36:18 <gambler> dont forget about meatloaf farts (the link is a the bottom)
Aug 18 02:36:31 <gambler> balance out those macronutrients
Aug 18 02:36:40 <yakischloba> aight
Aug 18 02:37:51 <jasta> seriously gambler
Aug 18 02:37:57 <jasta> what is your deal?
Aug 18 02:39:46 <gambler> just watching some funny videos now...cant find anything i can tone down enough for this channel tho
Aug 18 02:42:35 <gambler> this is pretty funny watch a kid freerolling for a million bucks
Aug 18 02:42:37 <gambler> http://www.collegehumor.com/video:1717965
Aug 18 02:44:10 <jasta> hehe
Aug 18 02:44:13 <jasta> that one is funny :)
Aug 18 02:44:17 <jasta> what a doofus
Aug 18 02:45:09 <yakischloba> LOL
Aug 18 02:47:12 <gambler> guy trapped in elevator for 41 hrs: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_bMhNI_TY8&feature=related
Aug 18 02:48:26 <jasta> that would be the suckiest thing ever.
Aug 18 02:48:57 <gambler> yeah he went crazy...i read the new yorker article about it
Aug 18 02:49:13 <gambler> compensation payout was barely 6 figs
Aug 18 02:50:33 <jasta> 41 hours with no water would be agonizing
Aug 18 02:51:06 <jasta> most people can only live like 10 days without it.  any significant fraction into that has got to be so terrible.
Aug 18 02:51:14 <gambler> time compresses in those situations...people have went way longer than 5 days without water ...but in almost every case they THOUGHT much less time had elapsed
Aug 18 02:51:35 <gambler> 10 days? I didnt know it was that long
Aug 18 02:51:48 <jasta> yeah, i thought it was 8 to 14 days for most humans
Aug 18 02:51:51 <jasta> average being 10
Aug 18 02:52:32 <gambler> a few years back when a korean office building crumbled some lady trapped in the rubble went like 3 weeks without
Aug 18 02:52:41 <gambler> she thought 3 or 4 days had passed
Aug 18 02:52:55 <jasta> 3 weeks?  according to what i've read on this topic, that is impossible.
Aug 18 02:53:25 <gambler> i admit my recollections are a bit scanty, but the entire article was about how freaky this was
Aug 18 02:53:29 <jasta> she must have had some form of water.
Aug 18 02:53:51 <jasta> you can get water some a lot of unlikely places when you're depserate.
Aug 18 02:54:03 <jasta> from a lot*
Aug 18 02:54:28 <gambler> i think she was trapped and her body entered some kind of hibernation phase
Aug 18 02:55:00 <jasta> i don't think such a thing really exists.
Aug 18 02:55:09 <jasta> you are probably recalling this wrong, or it was reported wrong.
Aug 18 02:56:45 <jasta> you may be thinking food.
Aug 18 02:56:54 <jasta> because food is a whole different story.  most humans can go a LONG time without eating.
Aug 18 02:57:04 <gambler> no it was definitely water...i cant find any data though on longest recorded time without water
Aug 18 02:57:05 <jasta> especially well nourished people.
Aug 18 02:57:14 <gambler> yah u can go forever without food
Aug 18 02:57:24 <jasta> not forever, but a long time.
Aug 18 02:59:07 <jasta> i mean, it'll get you in a reasonable time.  i think it's usually inside of a couple months though
Aug 18 02:59:25 <jasta> i think you're wrong about the water thing though.  water gets you quick.
Aug 18 02:59:57 <gambler> yah usually...but all populations have outliers...and maybe she had just finished drinking alot when she got trapped
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Mon Aug 18 02:59:57 2008