**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun Aug 24 02:59:56 2008
Aug 24 03:53:13 <jasta> i forgot how to get the storage card location
Aug 24 03:53:17 <jasta> anyone remember off hand?
Aug 24 03:59:38 <jasta> oh yeah, android.os.Environment
Aug 24 04:07:09 <jasta> actually no, that's not right.  that's for USB mass storage
Aug 24 04:07:10 <jasta> hmm
Aug 24 04:14:39 <jasta> or is it?  *confused*
Aug 24 05:14:33 <jasta> sup Dougie187, you're up late :)
Aug 24 05:15:07 <Dougie187> yeah i know.
Aug 24 05:15:13 <Dougie187> we just got home from a "party"
Aug 24 05:15:21 <jasta> a
Aug 24 05:15:23 <jasta> a "party"?
Aug 24 05:15:28 <Dougie187> prolly gonna pass out in a bit.
Aug 24 05:15:29 <Dougie187> yeah
Aug 24 05:15:34 <jasta> why the quotes?
Aug 24 05:15:52 <jasta> oh i get it.  you're swingers.  say no more.
Aug 24 05:15:52 <Dougie187> well. for the ladies it was a party because they went to a club
Aug 24 05:16:02 <Dougie187> but me and these guys stayed at home and watched army of darkness
Aug 24 05:16:33 <jasta> that's ballsy letting your wife go clubbing ;)
Aug 24 05:16:38 <Dougie187> lol
Aug 24 05:16:42 <Dougie187> eh i trust her.
Aug 24 05:16:43 <Dougie187> shes goo
Aug 24 05:16:45 <Dougie187> good
Aug 24 05:17:04 <jasta> you should probably just learn to like dancing and go with her ;)
Aug 24 05:17:13 <Dougie187> lol thats not going to happen.
Aug 24 05:17:18 <Dougie187> she goes with her married friends.
Aug 24 05:17:19 <Dougie187> so its good
Aug 24 05:17:20 <jasta> the alternative ain't great :)
Aug 24 05:18:01 <jasta> i've had enough female friends in my life to know that you don't a) let your girlfriend go to lots of parties without, b) don't let your girlfriend go clubbing without you, etc ;)
Aug 24 05:18:56 <Dougie187> well one big difference is you are referring to girlfriends. and in this case its a wife.
Aug 24 05:19:01 <jasta> like yeah once or twice sure, whatever.  when it's a general habit to go to places with tons of booze and available men?  hmm, no :)
Aug 24 05:19:10 <jasta> is wife different than girlfriend?
Aug 24 05:19:33 <Dougie187> lol is boyfriend different than husband?
Aug 24 05:19:37 <jasta> no.
Aug 24 05:19:45 <jasta> marriage does not suddenly transcend sexual desire.
Aug 24 05:19:46 <Dougie187> you are mistaken.
Aug 24 05:19:50 <Dougie187> lol.
Aug 24 05:19:57 <jasta> divorce statistics disagree with you, sir.
Aug 24 05:20:01 <Dougie187> no but marriage adds another level of trust to it
Aug 24 05:20:14 <jasta> lol, are you retarded?
Aug 24 05:20:36 <Dougie187> lol probably slightly.
Aug 24 05:20:44 <Dougie187> but i dont think anything is going to happen.
Aug 24 05:20:48 <Dougie187> plus she hardly goes out.
Aug 24 05:21:17 <jasta> i'm not trying to make you worry, but your arguments suck :P
Aug 24 05:21:57 <jasta> it isn't any more morally or socially acceptable for a girl to cheat on her serious boyfriend than it is for her to cheat on her husband.
Aug 24 05:22:38 <Dougie187> sure. but personally i would expect a girlfriend to be more likely to cheat then a wife. also, divorce statistics don't specify reason.
Aug 24 05:23:10 <jasta> and marriage implicitly changes nothing about the dynamic of two people, except perhaps superficially by the traditional notions both persons had.
Aug 24 05:23:41 <jasta> especially true if neither of you are religious, since you have no affinity to the tradition then in any case.
Aug 24 05:23:57 <jasta> the only "bind" that really gets people is if you fear god, then you would fear violating your agreement you made with him.
Aug 24 05:24:00 <Dougie187> marriage does not have to be a religious thing.
Aug 24 05:24:20 <Dougie187> i disagree. you are thinking too traditionally about marriage.
Aug 24 05:24:31 <Dougie187> marriage can mean a lot to you even if you aren't religious.
Aug 24 05:24:31 <jasta> Dougie187: you are thinking exclusively traditionally about marriage.
Aug 24 05:24:46 <jasta> you believe that because of tradition, the relationship between two persons is affected.
Aug 24 05:24:58 <Dougie187> no, its just what it means to you.
Aug 24 05:25:03 <jasta> but that is only true if both have great respect for the tradition and not the function it merits.
Aug 24 05:25:25 <jasta> the function is that god fearing people must respect it.
Aug 24 05:25:53 <Dougie187> i disagree with that.
Aug 24 05:26:04 <jasta> the tradition, though, means nothing to the interpersonal relationship.  neither persons inherent behaviours have been affected.
Aug 24 05:26:34 <Dougie187> ill say they don't have to.
Aug 24 05:26:37 <jasta> Dougie187: How can you say that?  What about the process (and not tradition) of marriage changed your relationship?
Aug 24 05:26:40 <Dougie187> but that doesn't mean they cant.
Aug 24 05:26:59 <Dougie187> well i think going through the process has made me have a greater respect for my wife.
Aug 24 05:27:01 <jasta> If it traditionally doesn't hold weight for you, then only the literal process that ocurred on that day does.  So what about it?
Aug 24 05:27:59 <jasta> And honestly, a separate argument, what kind of scum do you think can reason it OK to cheat on a long-term girlfriend but not OK to cheat on a wife?
Aug 24 05:28:18 <Dougie187> lol what?
Aug 24 05:28:22 <Dougie187> your thinking about the wrong side.
Aug 24 05:28:34 <jasta> I just changed the gender because it's easier to imagine scummy guys than girls.
Aug 24 05:28:46 <jasta> I thought it would make the argument stronger for that reason :)
Aug 24 05:29:04 <Dougie187> i dont mean wrong side as in male vs. female.
Aug 24 05:29:17 <Dougie187> i mean wrong side as in you are thinking about the 3rd party. rather then the wife or husband.
Aug 24 05:29:27 <Dougie187> cheating requires two people.
Aug 24 05:29:38 <Dougie187> of course there is always going to be a scum bag who wants to cheat with my wife.
Aug 24 05:29:42 <jasta> I mean, if you think "it's my wife, not my girlfriend, so she wouldn't cheat on me", then you must imagine a majority class of people who would think it was wrong to cheat on a husband but OK to cheat on a serious boyfriend.
Aug 24 05:29:45 <Dougie187> but my wife has to chose to cheat.
Aug 24 05:30:06 <jasta> Which I know that you don't.  So your argument fails easily.
Aug 24 05:30:20 <jasta> More easily than attempting to discredit the function of marriage.
Aug 24 05:30:23 <Dougie187> im not saying they think its "OK" to cheat on a serious boyfriend. im just saying that they think its more "OK" to cheat on a serious boyfriend then a husband.
Aug 24 05:30:46 <jasta> Dougie187: I don't think you've been around very many unhealthy relationships, personally :)
Aug 24 05:31:45 <jasta> There's clearly very little to do with whether they are married.
Aug 24 05:32:27 <Dougie187> ill give you that i haven't been around many unhealthy relationships, but i don't think you can fully understand/respect the process of marriage until you go through it
Aug 24 05:32:40 <jasta> Social pressures are very weak in the face of sexual desire.  Very weak.
Aug 24 05:33:07 <jasta> Unhealthy relationships demonstrate that time and time again :)
Aug 24 05:33:15 <Dougie187> that completely varies by person.
Aug 24 05:33:20 <jasta> Not many people really feel that it is OK to cheat, but they still do it.  And they feel bad, but they'd still do it again.
Aug 24 05:33:37 <jasta> Dougie187: Yes, but it varies greater by sexual desire :)
Aug 24 05:33:49 <jasta> *cough* catholic priests *cough*
Aug 24 05:33:53 <Dougie187> lol
Aug 24 05:34:15 <Dougie187> neither my wife or I are religious, so we can't really bring that aspect into it.
Aug 24 05:34:25 <jasta> then you have nothing :)
Aug 24 05:34:46 <Dougie187> lol, i just think you don't understand so you say i have nothing. but I can't make you understand.
Aug 24 05:34:53 <jasta> the tradition just serves your assumptions that it is somehow a different relationship.
Aug 24 05:35:01 <Dougie187> no.
Aug 24 05:35:02 <jasta> your assumptions that have merely imaginary weight
Aug 24 05:35:10 <Dougie187> seriously. you can't understand it until you go through it.
Aug 24 05:35:26 <jasta> you can't understand it until you've seen people come out of it.
Aug 24 05:35:27 <jasta> ;)
Aug 24 05:35:43 <Dougie187> and im happy i haven't. and i hope i never will.
Aug 24 05:36:02 <jasta> then you can't really know what the hell you're talking about :)
Aug 24 05:36:12 <Dougie187> lol well neither can you.
Aug 24 05:36:17 <Dougie187> so i guess we are at a stalemate.
Aug 24 05:36:25 <jasta> i actually have been married :)
Aug 24 05:36:29 <jasta> and divorced :)
Aug 24 05:36:32 <Dougie187> When were you married?
Aug 24 05:36:41 <Dougie187> for like 2 years?
Aug 24 05:36:41 <jasta> A time ago. :)
Aug 24 05:36:49 <jasta> I was with the person for a total of 6 years.
Aug 24 05:37:04 <Dougie187> and how many of those were married years?
Aug 24 05:37:09 <jasta> 2.
Aug 24 05:37:24 <Dougie187> how long have you been divorced?
Aug 24 05:37:29 <jasta> But how does that matter?  If the tradition reinforced our relationship as you say, then what other variables are there?
Aug 24 05:37:37 <designs703> um
Aug 24 05:37:38 <Dougie187> its not the tradition.
Aug 24 05:37:40 <Dougie187> i never said that.
Aug 24 05:37:44 <Dougie187> you said that.
Aug 24 05:37:46 <designs703> am I in the Android chat room?
Aug 24 05:37:52 <jasta> Then what other variables are there?
Aug 24 05:38:01 <Dougie187> designs703: android chat room is on vacation until monday.
Aug 24 05:38:05 <jasta> Forget the tradition, what variables tell you that your relationship is strong as a result of marriage where others may not be.
Aug 24 05:38:18 <Dougie187> because of what it means to us.
Aug 24 05:38:31 <jasta> Hehe, *tsk tsk*, that sounds like an assumption :)
Aug 24 05:38:42 <Dougie187> how is that an assumption at all?
Aug 24 05:38:54 <muthu> nam
Aug 24 05:39:06 <designs703> k
Aug 24 05:39:23 <jasta> Dougie187: well do recall that you started this conversation out more abstract than your own personal relationship.
Aug 24 05:39:48 <jasta> You said initially that wife carries more weight than serious girlfriend, but are now saying "I know _MY_ wife, and therefore..."
Aug 24 05:39:58 <jasta> You argument just jumped completely.
Aug 24 05:40:03 <jasta> Your*
Aug 24 05:40:15 <Dougie187> sorry what i meant initially was "to me" wife means more then girlfriend.
Aug 24 05:40:24 <Dougie187> and i guess I assume that more people feel that way.
Aug 24 05:40:28 <Dougie187> than just me.
Aug 24 05:40:33 <muthu> that's why its your wife ;)
Aug 24 05:40:37 <jasta> Dougie187: But then you do mean the tradiiton
Aug 24 05:40:40 <Dougie187> no.
Aug 24 05:40:46 <jasta> Dougie187: Because the only context of trusting your wife comes from KNOWING your wife.
Aug 24 05:40:50 <Dougie187> you are mis-interpreting that.
Aug 24 05:40:52 <jasta> You don't know everyone else, and so you can't predict how they think.
Aug 24 05:41:09 <jasta> You'd just be assuming that they also think about their wives as you think about yours.  Which is totally wrong :)
Aug 24 05:41:38 <Dougie187> I do not think it is un-resonable to think that there are more people in the world who think of their wives as i think of mine.
Aug 24 05:41:40 <muthu> trusting you wife is wrong?
Aug 24 05:41:57 <jasta> Dougie187: There's not, but it's all fueled by tradition.
Aug 24 05:42:01 <Dougie187> no.
Aug 24 05:42:07 <jasta> There is no other variable that could contribute to this irrational assumption you have.
Aug 24 05:42:09 <Dougie187> your stuck on the tradition thing.
Aug 24 05:42:33 <jasta> As I told you, the only function of marriage is from god-fearing people.  So if you remove that context of its function, then you have merely an assumption based on a traditional belief you were given with no logical justification.
Aug 24 05:42:34 <Dougie187> tradition is only for the people who follow it
Aug 24 05:42:48 <Dougie187> jasta: i think you are missing the depth of marriage.
Aug 24 05:43:12 <jasta> Otherwise, what logical justification do you have to assume that married people are less likely to cheat?
Aug 24 05:43:33 <Dougie187> also, you don't know that the meaning of marriage I have been taught is traditional or not.
Aug 24 05:43:37 <muthu> in marriage, you tend to be more committed
Aug 24 05:43:55 <Dougie187> at least if you take the marriage seriously.
Aug 24 05:43:59 <jasta> Dougie187: I have asked you several times to tell me, which you haven't done./
Aug 24 05:44:41 <jasta> Marriage was essentially symoblicly a promise that you won't cheat on them or anything like that.
Aug 24 05:44:52 <jasta> But what you're not getting is that the social pressures remain exactly the same.
Aug 24 05:44:59 <jasta> You're still not supposed to cheat on your girlfriend :)
Aug 24 05:45:06 <Dougie187> because I feel like being married makes you respect the other person in the marriage, and think of them in all your actions, so if you were going to cheat you would have to consciously consider the other person. and I feel like that alone would make people less likely to cheat
Aug 24 05:45:31 <jasta> Dougie187: But as I just said, you're still a bastard if you do that to your wife :)
Aug 24 05:45:35 <jasta> err to your girlfriend*
Aug 24 05:45:38 <jasta> You're no less a bastard, really.
Aug 24 05:45:38 <gambler> for once jasta is right on the money
Aug 24 05:46:07 <jasta> And isnce we were very specifically referring to "cheating" and not other forms of trespasses, I think my argument remains quite strong here.
Aug 24 05:46:33 <muthu> in marriage you are showing commitment
Aug 24 05:46:44 <muthu> and governed by laws
Aug 24 05:46:44 <jasta> Showing it how?
Aug 24 05:46:53 <Dougie187> i dont think you are understanding what im saying.
Aug 24 05:47:15 <Dougie187> i agree that cheating on your girlfriend means your a douchebag.
Aug 24 05:47:32 <muthu> if you are committed then you should marry your girlfriend
Aug 24 05:47:33 <jasta> Dougie187: that's because you're trying to argue something that i can't possibly know about you.  You're arguing without logic, but with your interpretation of a social contract which you were taught.
Aug 24 05:47:35 <Dougie187> but i think in peoples minds they would think less of the other person in just an average relationship.
Aug 24 05:47:47 <jasta> Dougie187: And you can't do that.  You can't argue things that we all don't know to be true.
Aug 24 05:47:58 <Dougie187> but thats what you are doing too.
Aug 24 05:48:05 <jasta> No, I assure you it's not :)
Aug 24 05:48:10 <Dougie187> you are assuming that divorce statistics show that married people chate.
Aug 24 05:48:12 <Dougie187> cheat*
Aug 24 05:48:21 <jasta> Dougie187: No, that was never part of my argument.
Aug 24 05:48:24 <muthu> is it a question of who cheats most?
Aug 24 05:48:28 <Dougie187> then why did you bring it up?
Aug 24 05:48:31 <jasta> I just said it to get your mind thinking in the right context.
Aug 24 05:48:44 <Dougie187> muthu: no, he was just telling me i should be careful letting my wife go to clubs with girls.
Aug 24 05:48:52 <muthu> ha
Aug 24 05:48:52 <jasta> and you should ;P
Aug 24 05:48:56 <gambler> I never let my boyfriend go out clubbing unless Ive satisifed him first
Aug 24 05:49:05 <Dougie187> jasta: i don't see how that helps any though.
Aug 24 05:49:05 <muthu> haha
Aug 24 05:49:18 <muthu> gambler: lol, good policy!
Aug 24 05:49:23 <jasta> really, i was just trying to give you a helpful piece of advice ;)
Aug 24 05:49:27 <jasta> i learned my lesson a long time ago
Aug 24 05:49:31 <gambler> :p
Aug 24 05:49:57 <muthu> actually the argument depends on people
Aug 24 05:50:00 <Dougie187> lol, well i think you are bad at giving helpful advice. and also you might try to let people learn their own lessons.
Aug 24 05:50:01 <muthu> you can't just generalize
Aug 24 05:50:12 <jasta> also, i picked up a few things being single.  girls with boyfriends or husbands who are frequently "not here" are easy targets ;)
Aug 24 05:50:30 <muthu> waoh
Aug 24 05:50:36 <muthu> another jastapedia fact!
Aug 24 05:50:36 <gambler> jasta, so your admitting to be a homewrecker?
Aug 24 05:50:40 <jasta> not that i would ever want to get entangled with that type of nonsense
Aug 24 05:50:49 <jasta> just that it's a very easy thing to pick up on :)
Aug 24 05:51:01 <jasta> gambler: no, just that I have learned this to be true.
Aug 24 05:51:23 <Dougie187> i don't disagree that they are "easy targets"
Aug 24 05:51:24 <muthu> jasta: did you act in loveguru :P
Aug 24 05:51:27 <jasta> for example, i've been to many a party where these girls end up going home with someone.
Aug 24 05:51:28 <Dougie187> im just saying, cheating is a two person act.
Aug 24 05:51:34 <Dougie187> and i trust my wife enough to not cheat on me.
Aug 24 05:52:02 <muthu> yes, its all about people
Aug 24 05:52:04 <Dougie187> if that trust ends up f'ing me over. then so-be-it. but i don't think it's a healthy thing to do to not trust her.
Aug 24 05:52:05 <jasta> i hope you're having plenty of sex, then :)
Aug 24 05:52:18 <gambler> Dougie187, would you considering it cheating if she slept with a woman?
Aug 24 05:52:19 <jasta> sexually satisfied people are way less likely to cheat.  that's a much more powerful indicator than married or not.
Aug 24 05:52:29 <Dougie187> gambler: yes.
Aug 24 05:52:56 <muthu> jasta: where you got that indicator?
Aug 24 05:53:11 <jasta> Dougie187: it's not always about trust, you know.  it's sometimes about just being insightful.  jsut trying to detect when you're being kind of a douche and your wife is too embarrassed to tell you.
Aug 24 05:53:15 <gambler> i dont see why...i figure its just like they are at boarding school
Aug 24 05:53:33 <Dougie187> muthu: he has an android app that measures likeliness to cheat.
Aug 24 05:53:39 <jasta> like neglecting your partner, for example.  your partner may never stand up and scream "HEY, PAY ATTENTION TO ME!"
Aug 24 05:53:39 <muthu> haha
Aug 24 05:53:42 <jasta> they might just leave you first.
Aug 24 05:53:55 <muthu> lovemeter would be a good android app
Aug 24 05:53:58 <jasta> so it's not about trust, but rather just being insightful and sensitive to things like how your partner is feeling about the relationship.
Aug 24 05:54:02 <jasta> are they happy, sexually satisfied, etc?
Aug 24 05:54:19 <Dougie187> sure i don't disagree with that at all.
Aug 24 05:54:25 <jasta> assuming that they are these things without really being objective about it and talking to them is pointless.
Aug 24 05:54:31 <jasta> assumptions are totally stupid when it comes to how people feel :)
Aug 24 05:54:42 <Dougie187> but that is being a good partner. as well. you have to have good interpersonal communication with your partner.
Aug 24 05:54:43 <jasta> assumptions about tradition, or personalities, etc.
Aug 24 05:54:44 <muthu> jasta: have you seen these reality shows?
Aug 24 05:54:52 <muthu> where people cheat for other reasons
Aug 24 05:54:55 <Dougie187> jasta: don't even start on the tradition again.
Aug 24 05:55:12 <jasta> i'm just reinforcing my point.  assumptions about the way people think is a very bad idea.
Aug 24 05:55:24 <jasta> especially if you think you know that person very well.  they always surprise you :)
Aug 24 05:55:51 <gambler> jasta remembers back to the time his wife showed up with a strap on dildo
Aug 24 05:55:53 <jasta> good communication limits how long assumptions can go untested.  so that's really important of course :)
Aug 24 05:55:53 <Dougie187> well, no offense, but i think you only really say that because of your life experiences.
Aug 24 05:55:57 <muthu> jasta: looks like you are talking for a single personal experience
Aug 24 05:56:10 <muthu> gambler: lol
Aug 24 05:56:31 <Dougie187> i think you are generalizing with your own personal experiences, which is as well something that is not great to do.
Aug 24 05:56:39 <muthu> agree
Aug 24 05:56:48 <muthu> jasta just thinks what happened to him is happening to everyone
Aug 24 05:56:50 <jasta> really?  can you give me an example that supports that conclusion?
Aug 24 05:56:58 <Dougie187> which conclusion?
Aug 24 05:57:03 <jasta> because honestly i feel like i was generalizing very objectively.
Aug 24 05:57:53 <Dougie187> well i probably would have felt like you were generalizing with no experience until you brought up your previous marriage.
Aug 24 05:57:55 <jasta> Dougie187: that my experiences have tainted my faith in people somehow.
Aug 24 05:58:11 <jasta> because i do trust my girlfriend right now.  i trust her because i have learned to communicate much better.
Aug 24 05:58:17 <Dougie187> after that point i felt like your points were drawn from a previous experience.
Aug 24 05:58:22 <jasta> and i have learned to be more sensitive to what's going on with her
Aug 24 05:58:27 <gambler> jasta sends her irc logs of his latest rant
Aug 24 05:58:29 <Dougie187> and thats not a bad thing at all.
Aug 24 05:58:46 <gambler> awww thats cuddly...
Aug 24 05:58:50 <jasta> if i hadn't told you about my experiences prior to this gf, you would have no reason to come to the conclusion you've come to
Aug 24 05:59:02 <jasta> i feel like you've just found an easy escape from the argument since you realize your points are nonsense :)
Aug 24 05:59:09 <Dougie187> lol.
Aug 24 05:59:16 <Dougie187> i still stand by my arguments.
Aug 24 05:59:35 <Dougie187> i just feel like you don't understand what im saying, and say they are nonsense as an easy escape
Aug 24 05:59:50 <jasta> that's usually how it goes when someone has experiences that don't match your own.  it's better to argue without circumstantial evidence.
Aug 24 06:00:08 <Dougie187> i will have to say, based on your conversation though, and the fact that you had a previous marraige i had assumed that you had something negative that you draw your argument from.
Aug 24 06:00:21 <jasta> not at all, actually
Aug 24 06:00:36 <muthu> Dougie187: i think you are doing the right thing by letter her go to clubs if she wants to
Aug 24 06:00:44 <jasta> i am grateful to have had that experience.  i learned a lot about how not to be a douchebag boyfriend
Aug 24 06:00:47 <jasta> because i totally was :)
Aug 24 06:00:54 <gambler> jasta: "marriages" that happened online dont count...you know that right
Aug 24 06:01:02 <jasta> muthu: i didn't say he should stop her from going.  i said he should learn to dance and go :)
Aug 24 06:01:31 <gambler> maybe you could mail him some ecstacy tablets
Aug 24 06:01:34 <muthu> that's a good idea too
Aug 24 06:01:40 <Dougie187> well personally, and i think im not alone in this since it seemed like gambler and mutu had the same opinion, i feel like you gave the impression that you had some negative experience that paralleled your arguments.
Aug 24 06:01:58 <Dougie187> I wouldn't mind going to ballroom dance, just the club scene isnt my thing.
Aug 24 06:02:03 <Dougie187> i don't enjoy it.
Aug 24 06:02:10 <gambler> Dougie187, how old are you and your wife
Aug 24 06:02:13 <jasta> Dougie187: i wouldn't use either of them as jsutification.  gambler isn't taking this conversation seriously, and muthu is muthu
Aug 24 06:02:17 <jasta> so :)
Aug 24 06:02:23 <muthu> haha
Aug 24 06:02:24 <Dougie187> me<-23 almost 24, her 22
Aug 24 06:02:35 <Dougie187> lol
Aug 24 06:02:39 <Dougie187> tou'che.
Aug 24 06:02:44 <jasta> Dougie187: yeah, but maybe she would really enjoy you to go.
Aug 24 06:02:51 <jasta> ask her, some time.  i bet you'll be surprised by her answer :)
Aug 24 06:02:53 <Dougie187> i'm sure she would.
Aug 24 06:02:57 <Dougie187> oh lol. no i wouldnt.
Aug 24 06:03:00 <gambler> 24? I thought you were 40...this will all end up on jerry springer
Aug 24 06:03:03 <Dougie187> i know she would love me to go dance with her.
Aug 24 06:03:09 <jasta> so be a good husban and make some sacrifice you putz :)
Aug 24 06:03:39 <Dougie187> lol i make my sacrifices at appropriate times.
Aug 24 06:03:54 <Dougie187> and i try to be a good husband to her as well.
Aug 24 06:03:56 <jasta> be honest.  are you just being selfish because you really don't feel comfortable doing it?
Aug 24 06:03:59 <gambler> Dougie187, f that advice...get her into a 3some ...if she loves the ladies there is less chance she will hook up with another guy
Aug 24 06:04:05 <jasta> and she can't change your mind because you don't want to be uncomfortable?
Aug 24 06:04:41 <Dougie187> i don't feel comfortable with it, but also just the whole scene isn't something I enjoy. i don't like the crowds or the other people who are there.
Aug 24 06:04:43 <Dougie187> its not my thing.
Aug 24 06:04:57 <Dougie187> and im referring to the dancing being somewhat uncomfortable.
Aug 24 06:05:10 <jasta> Dougie187: do you ever have your gf accompany you to things she maybe isn't a fan of?
Aug 24 06:05:16 <Dougie187> usually when i get started its not too bad. but its always semi awkward.
Aug 24 06:05:20 <jasta> like family reunions and shit? :)
Aug 24 06:05:30 <Dougie187> yes, and i acompany them to things i am not a fan of as well.
Aug 24 06:05:36 <Dougie187> lol family reunions.. she loves those.
Aug 24 06:05:38 <jasta> does she ever tell you no?
Aug 24 06:05:40 <Dougie187> im not the fan of those.
Aug 24 06:05:41 <Dougie187> yes.
Aug 24 06:05:57 <jasta> hehe
Aug 24 06:06:02 <jasta> this conversation tickles me :)
Aug 24 06:06:08 <muthu> gambler: don't think that would work
Aug 24 06:06:29 <gambler> muthu, why not'
Aug 24 06:06:33 <muthu> since you can marry whoever you like
Aug 24 06:06:41 <Dougie187> muthu: me either. i ignored it because of the lack of seriousness in the conversation. lol.
Aug 24 06:06:44 <gambler> muthu, there is no love more pure then the love between two women
Aug 24 06:06:56 <jasta> oh shut up gambler
Aug 24 06:07:01 <Dougie187> lol.
Aug 24 06:07:08 <muthu> yeah, and they can get married if they choose to
Aug 24 06:07:16 <jasta> muthu: not in most places in the world.
Aug 24 06:07:17 <gambler> jasta, now u are talking about something u dont know about
Aug 24 06:07:21 <Dougie187> and the focus of the conversation has just shifted from me to gambler.
Aug 24 06:07:30 <jasta> gambler: are you sure you want to start this argument?  i can assure you, i know a lot more than you'd think.
Aug 24 06:07:36 <gambler> yo im just an inncoent bystander
Aug 24 06:07:50 <muthu> jasta: how come you know about everything?
Aug 24 06:07:54 <Dougie187> gambler: and you are definitely generalizing on something you shouldn't be doing.
Aug 24 06:07:57 <jasta> muthu: i like to talk to people. :)
Aug 24 06:08:01 <gambler> jasta ok tough guy..tell us all about it
Aug 24 06:08:11 <jasta> my mom is a lesbian
Aug 24 06:08:30 <gambler> so unless you F ed her i dont think that counts
Aug 24 06:08:42 <Dougie187> ...
Aug 24 06:08:42 <jasta> she came out when i was 7, and my parents divorced.
Aug 24 06:08:50 <Dougie187> jasta: ... just let it go.
Aug 24 06:08:56 <Dougie187> keep in mind its not serious.
Aug 24 06:09:06 <gambler> jasta: so you have 2 mommies?
Aug 24 06:09:08 <jasta> i just would like to hear what sort of pathetic, uninformed response she has.
Aug 24 06:09:19 <Dougie187> jasta: seriously. just stop.
Aug 24 06:09:30 <Dougie187> it's going to turn into a meoblast conversation.
Aug 24 06:09:35 <Dougie187> was that one worth it?
Aug 24 06:09:37 <jasta> you're right
Aug 24 06:10:06 <jasta> i have to go anyway.  gotta take a friend to the airport.
Aug 24 06:10:06 <gambler> Dougie187, shame on you for quashing an interesting discussion
Aug 24 06:10:10 <Dougie187> you're talking with someone who doesn't care to have a conversation.
Aug 24 06:10:16 <Dougie187> ok. have a good one jasta
Aug 24 06:10:21 <Dougie187> i think im going to bed.
Aug 24 06:10:29 <Dougie187> gambler: just stop talking.
Aug 24 06:10:31 <gambler> Dougie187, make sure you dont get herpes
Aug 24 06:10:36 <Dougie187> ill try not to.
Aug 24 06:10:39 <Dougie187> see ya
Aug 24 06:10:42 <gambler> Dougie187, sorry thought police
Aug 24 06:11:17 <gambler> anyway i dont think theres anything wrong with jasta having a lesbian mother
Aug 24 06:11:30 <gambler> nor do i think there is anything wrong with me fantasizing about them endlessly
Aug 24 06:12:09 <jasta> is gambler like a 16 year old girl or something?
Aug 24 06:12:25 <gambler> ive got the emotional maturity of one
Aug 24 06:14:01 <gambler> frankly though growing up with a lesbian mother was the most interesting part of an otherwise pointless argument
Aug 24 06:14:34 <gambler> id like to hear more...even though Dougie was such a buzzkill
Aug 24 06:26:29 <gambler>  /msg jasta sorry dude...your mother stealing your first girlfriend..that is heavy duty
Aug 24 06:26:35 <gambler> oops
Aug 24 06:28:50 <ttuttle> gambler: lol
Aug 24 06:30:03 <gambler> :p
Aug 24 06:31:37 <muthu> when someone said "world is flat", i wonder how flat it is!
Aug 24 06:58:36 <jerkface03> "I still believe Google is no more than yellow page in the internet."  <-- lol, looks like someone at microsoft has a disconnect with reality
Aug 24 06:59:39 <jerkface03> maybe this is why they've had their ass handed to them on a silver platter when it comes to anything to do with search
Aug 24 07:02:05 <muthu> this yellow page thing is being spoken about a lot
Aug 24 07:02:45 <muthu> i say mobile search.. they say yellow pages
Aug 24 07:02:53 <muthu> i say mobile shopping.. they say yellow pages
Aug 24 07:03:00 <muthu> i say mobile dating.. they say yellow pages
Aug 24 07:03:09 <jerkface03> well, i mean, i'm not google fanboy
Aug 24 07:03:32 <jerkface03> i'm no google fanboy even
Aug 24 07:03:32 <muthu> poeple just say its an yellow page, when they don't really understand
Aug 24 07:03:39 <jerkface03> but, it's funny to see them try to brush off their failure
Aug 24 07:03:47 <muthu> right
Aug 24 07:03:55 <muthu> in the world of ebay, cragilist, and amazon
Aug 24 07:04:01 <muthu> no one listens to you!
Aug 24 07:04:32 <muthu> even google is not being listened to.. so that's not too bad
Aug 24 07:04:40 <jerkface03> "No... No... No... Who care about yellow page? We know Newspaper and TV make more money than yellow page, isn't it? Why not create the next TV on internet. "
Aug 24 07:04:48 <jerkface03> i'm starting to wonder if this is some giant troll
Aug 24 07:04:53 <jerkface03> http://blogs.msdn.com/tikiwan/archive/2008/08/23/how-can-microsoft-complete-with-google-part-ii.aspx
Aug 24 07:05:25 <muthu> microsoft has lost it
Aug 24 07:05:30 <muthu> they have to move on
Aug 24 07:05:36 <muthu> like yahoo
Aug 24 07:06:01 <jerkface03> live search was a piece of shit before, and it's still not very good now
Aug 24 07:06:13 <muthu> yeah, and you talk about live search..
Aug 24 07:06:18 <muthu> they'll throw yellow pages at you
Aug 24 07:06:57 <muthu> hey goog, why don't you fund me so i can build an useful mobile search tool
Aug 24 07:07:17 <muthu> people are still hung up on static search
Aug 24 07:07:27 <jerkface03> static search?
Aug 24 07:07:30 <muthu> i like to say, search is 2 ways
Aug 24 07:08:06 <muthu> yeah, the way we search now doesn't cut it
Aug 24 07:08:14 <muthu> its not relevant, it doesn't show what you want
Aug 24 07:08:53 <muthu> google has the big search box in android
Aug 24 07:08:55 <muthu> come on!
Aug 24 07:09:29 <muthu> if all you can think of is put a search box in a mobile, and say google works
Aug 24 07:09:35 <muthu> it would be very disappointing
Aug 24 07:09:45 <duey> waht if i want yahoo search?!?!1
Aug 24 07:09:58 <muthu> no, i'm not even talking about alternate searches
Aug 24 07:10:11 <muthu> i'm saying the way we search in mobile, is not the same as in desktop
Aug 24 07:10:12 <jerkface03> looks like yahoo search will become live search soon?
Aug 24 07:10:13 * duey submits a feature request
Aug 24 07:10:17 <duey> no
Aug 24 07:10:20 <jerkface03> so you don't want yahoo search
Aug 24 07:10:21 <jerkface03> lol
Aug 24 07:10:23 <duey> that deals off isnt it?
Aug 24 07:10:29 <duey> i use google
Aug 24 07:10:33 <jerkface03> not sure, i haven't been keeping up
Aug 24 07:10:38 <duey> but just saying would be a lol feature request
Aug 24 07:10:46 <jerkface03> but srsly homie, yahoo search is almost as big a failure as live search
Aug 24 07:11:13 <muthu> yeah, yahoo just couldn't catch up
Aug 24 07:11:14 <duey> live search is so fail
Aug 24 07:11:23 <duey> at least yahoo returns good results
Aug 24 07:11:32 <jerkface03> tell me about it, i search for something on live search and i have to move down 9 pages to get what i actually want
Aug 24 07:11:33 <muthu> and they failed, when they rejected microsoft
Aug 24 07:11:43 <duey> M$ would of killed them anywya
Aug 24 07:11:47 <muthu> jerkface03: that's the problem with the current search
Aug 24 07:11:57 <muthu> duey: i would rather die with a shit load of money
Aug 24 07:12:00 <muthu> than die poor
Aug 24 07:12:04 <duey> lol
Aug 24 07:12:08 <jerkface03> s/money/hookers
Aug 24 07:12:13 <duey> im sure jerry is already quite rich
Aug 24 07:12:59 <duey> live search has this crazy ranking algo
Aug 24 07:13:03 <duey> its a neural network
Aug 24 07:13:08 <duey> insanely complicated
Aug 24 07:13:14 <duey> compared to pagerank
Aug 24 07:13:43 <muthu> wonder, what's the next pagerank?
Aug 24 07:13:44 <jerkface03> maybe that's why they fail it?
Aug 24 07:13:49 <muthu> what google is innovating?
Aug 24 07:13:57 <duey> well im sure pagerank evolves every day
Aug 24 07:14:06 <muthu> goog needs to think ahead
Aug 24 07:14:11 <duey> the idea of pagerank is very simple, but very successful
Aug 24 07:14:15 <jerkface03> i'm sure they're thinking ahead plenty
Aug 24 07:14:16 <duey> and its very effective
Aug 24 07:14:26 <duey> and they own the patent :)
Aug 24 07:14:32 <muthu> i'm very disappointed with their mobile search
Aug 24 07:14:51 <muthu> you cannot bring the desktop search to the mobile
Aug 24 07:14:56 <jerkface03> muthu: i'm sure it's one of those things that'll get better over time
Aug 24 07:15:03 <muthu> hope so
Aug 24 07:15:16 <duey> muthu, any news on the adc round 2 results?
Aug 24 07:15:23 <muthu> coming in sep
Aug 24 07:15:25 <duey> did you app end up looking good?
Aug 24 07:15:29 <muthu> oh yeah
Aug 24 07:15:32 <duey> nice
Aug 24 07:15:42 <duey> good luck
Aug 24 07:15:44 <muthu> hope i get funded enough
Aug 24 07:16:02 <muthu> so i can work on redefining the mobile search ;)
Aug 24 07:16:05 <muthu> duey: thx
Aug 24 07:16:10 <duey> I guess you have a pretty good chance of winning
Aug 24 07:16:19 <muthu> i personally think, in top 10
Aug 24 07:16:23 <duey> only 20/50
Aug 24 07:16:35 <duey> and i bet a few of those didnt continue in round 2
Aug 24 07:16:42 <muthu> no
Aug 24 07:16:44 <duey> so it might be 20/40
Aug 24 07:16:45 <muthu> everyone did continue
Aug 24 07:16:48 <duey> ah ok
Aug 24 07:16:53 <duey> well maybe some people didnt care as much
Aug 24 07:16:53 <muthu> why would they stop?
Aug 24 07:17:01 <duey> I probably would of if i had won
Aug 24 07:17:01 <duey> lol
Aug 24 07:17:05 <muthu> 250k made everyone care ;)
Aug 24 07:17:22 <duey> money doesn't motivate some people
Aug 24 07:17:35 <muthu> money motivates always
Aug 24 07:17:40 <duey> actually
Aug 24 07:17:53 <muthu> everyone has a dream, and they need money to follow it
Aug 24 07:17:54 <duey> money is a means to motivation
Aug 24 07:18:06 <muthu> money is not the goal
Aug 24 07:18:11 <duey> yeah
Aug 24 07:18:35 <jerkface03> first you get the money
Aug 24 07:18:36 <duey> like for example at work i am a lot more motivated by the success at what i create than my paycheck
Aug 24 07:18:37 <jerkface03> then you get the women
Aug 24 07:18:39 <jerkface03> then you get the power
Aug 24 07:18:49 <muthu> then you get broke
Aug 24 07:19:02 <muthu> not necessarily in that order ;)
Aug 24 07:19:33 <muthu> i really want to win adc2 now
Aug 24 07:19:42 <duey> can you enter adc2?
Aug 24 07:19:52 <muthu> why not?
Aug 24 07:20:03 <muthu> ofcourse with a different app
Aug 24 07:20:08 <duey> ah
Aug 24 07:20:26 <muthu> i plan to enter and win!
Aug 24 07:20:56 <muthu> now i know what it takes to win ;)
Aug 24 07:21:17 <jerkface03> didn't you already win?
Aug 24 07:21:20 <jerkface03> what'd you do with the money?
Aug 24 07:21:27 <muthu> spend it in SF
Aug 24 07:21:38 <jerkface03> sanfran?
Aug 24 07:21:42 <muthu> yup
Aug 24 07:21:47 <jerkface03> you spent 10,000 in sanfran?
Aug 24 07:21:48 <jerkface03> on what?
Aug 24 07:21:57 <muthu> on a lot of things
Aug 24 07:22:14 <jerkface03> "a lot of things"? is that code for a drug habit?
Aug 24 07:22:21 <muthu> lol
Aug 24 07:22:27 <jerkface03> you need to try some less expensive drugs :(
Aug 24 07:22:31 <muthu> hehe
Aug 24 07:23:00 <jerkface03> fack
Aug 24 07:23:05 <muthu> do you think 10k is big money?
Aug 24 07:23:06 <jerkface03> schools starting for me again in september
Aug 24 07:23:15 <duey> I would of spent it on junk too
Aug 24 07:23:16 <jerkface03> either i have to quit my job or take less courses
Aug 24 07:23:17 <muthu> people blow millions of dollars on nothing
Aug 24 07:23:37 <duey> probaby would of bought a macpro, macbookpro, and a new pc
Aug 24 07:23:43 <muthu> yeah
Aug 24 07:23:46 <jerkface03> well, 10,000 is a large chunk of money. i would have probably invested it in something
Aug 24 07:23:48 <jerkface03> hah
Aug 24 07:23:50 <muthu> buy a few gadgets, you are broke
Aug 24 07:23:52 <jerkface03> i just got a macbook a few days ago
Aug 24 07:23:55 <jerkface03> it sucks balls
Aug 24 07:24:01 <duey> i have a macbook pro
Aug 24 07:24:02 <jerkface03> installed windows on it after 5 minutes
Aug 24 07:24:04 <duey> its <3
Aug 24 07:24:10 <duey> jerkface03, not really a fair test..
Aug 24 07:24:18 <muthu> i will never get in to a mac, ever
Aug 24 07:24:23 <duey> lol
Aug 24 07:24:31 <duey> I use mac/windows everyday
Aug 24 07:24:37 <muthu> just linux
Aug 24 07:24:39 <muthu> fedora 8
Aug 24 07:24:45 <duey> use my mac for work realted stuff
Aug 24 07:24:45 <muthu> right now, but might switch to ubuntu
Aug 24 07:24:46 <duey> uni etc
Aug 24 07:24:48 <jerkface03> duey: so do i
Aug 24 07:24:50 <duey> windows for games and irc
Aug 24 07:24:54 <jerkface03> at work i have a mac and a PC
Aug 24 07:25:03 <jerkface03> because the product we make has to run on both :(
Aug 24 07:25:11 <muthu> i think i've grown up enough now, to not care about too many things
Aug 24 07:25:23 <muthu> just stick with one, and you'll be happy ;)
Aug 24 07:25:35 <duey> i just bought a macbook pro
Aug 24 07:25:37 <duey> its great
Aug 24 07:25:40 <duey> goign to buy a new pc now
Aug 24 07:26:06 <jerkface03> that's like eatting steak AND lobster
Aug 24 07:26:07 <jerkface03> in one sitting
Aug 24 07:26:15 <muthu> lol
Aug 24 07:26:24 <jerkface03> correcting
Aug 24 07:26:36 <jerkface03> steak and a wendy's hamburger
Aug 24 07:26:39 <duey> lol
Aug 24 07:26:42 <jerkface03> the mac being the wendy's hamburger
Aug 24 07:26:51 <duey> i lent some money to some peoples awhile ago and they just paid me back
Aug 24 07:26:55 <duey> so i figured i would waste it
Aug 24 07:27:03 <muthu> buy a gphone
Aug 24 07:27:09 <jerkface03> you should have gotten a console
Aug 24 07:27:09 <duey> na i dont use mobiles
Aug 24 07:27:14 <duey> already have got one
Aug 24 07:27:15 <duey> ps3
Aug 24 07:27:18 <duey> it sux
Aug 24 07:27:21 <duey> paper weight
Aug 24 07:27:29 <jerkface03> well you should have gotten an XBOX and a Wii
Aug 24 07:27:32 <jerkface03> and then modded them both
Aug 24 07:27:33 <duey> got an xbox
Aug 24 07:27:35 <duey> it sux to
Aug 24 07:27:39 <duey> its a bigger paperweight
Aug 24 07:27:44 <umdk1d4> YAY!!!  /me dances around room  i fixed a bug that took 4 hours to track down
Aug 24 07:27:48 <umdk1d4> in a huge library
Aug 24 07:27:56 <duey> I don't like consoles
Aug 24 07:27:59 <duey> never going to buy another one
Aug 24 07:28:00 <umdk1d4> it was a stupid off-by-one
Aug 24 07:28:05 <jerkface03> hah
Aug 24 07:28:09 <jerkface03> i was thinking about buying an xbox
Aug 24 07:28:15 <jerkface03> and then i found out i have to pay microsoft to play online?
Aug 24 07:28:17 <jerkface03> ya right
Aug 24 07:28:19 <jerkface03> in your fat fucking dreams
Aug 24 07:28:24 <romainguy_> don't play online :)
Aug 24 07:28:26 <jerkface03> i already pay for an internet connection
Aug 24 07:28:26 <duey> jerkface03, yeah thats whats nice about the ps3 at least
Aug 24 07:28:31 <romainguy_> I tried online play
Aug 24 07:28:33 <romainguy_> people insult you
Aug 24 07:28:38 <duey> awww
Aug 24 07:28:42 <romainguy_> and they play all the time so they're impossible to beat :)
Aug 24 07:28:46 <romainguy_> it's not very fun
Aug 24 07:28:48 <jerkface03> I tried online *, people insult you
Aug 24 07:28:52 <duey> I paly counterstrike still  :D
Aug 24 07:29:02 <duey> so many pros on i
Aug 24 07:29:02 <romainguy_> duey: :p
Aug 24 07:29:03 <duey> it
Aug 24 07:29:18 <duey> I break even on kill/deaths so its ok
Aug 24 07:29:28 <jerkface03> source or regular?
Aug 24 07:29:31 <duey> source
Aug 24 07:29:35 <jerkface03> i've been playing zombie mod alot of source recently
Aug 24 07:29:41 <jerkface03> on*
Aug 24 07:30:03 <duey> they should release a new counterstrike
Aug 24 07:30:08 <duey> or someone should release a mod
Aug 24 07:30:18 <jerkface03> i'm sure it's coming with the next HL?
Aug 24 07:30:22 <duey> maybe
Aug 24 07:32:14 <duey> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fwiv1t1QiEE
Aug 24 07:32:16 <duey> maybe:D
Aug 24 07:32:45 <muthu> yum.. lunch getting ready
Aug 24 07:32:55 <muthu> love the aroma spreading around the hall
Aug 24 07:33:44 <jerkface03> duey: looks like i'm going to have to get a new video card :(
Aug 24 07:34:58 <jerkface03> i hope they still allow custom sprays
Aug 24 07:36:05 <jerkface03> i don't know if i'd still be able to play without the ability to post a picture of steve urkel's mugshot on the wall
Aug 24 07:38:48 <muthu> the biggest skam right now in india is the iphone sales
Aug 24 07:39:37 <duey> biggest scam in nz is the cost of the iphone
Aug 24 07:39:42 <duey> $250/m for 1GB!
Aug 24 07:50:10 <gambler> duey, whereabouts in nz
Aug 24 07:50:19 <duey> all over?
Aug 24 07:50:28 <gambler> i meant u
Aug 24 07:50:33 <duey> oh
Aug 24 07:50:34 <duey> hamilton
Aug 24 07:50:56 <gambler> ah so ur not the massey guy :O
Aug 24 07:51:04 <duey> nope
Aug 24 07:51:09 <duey> waikato :)
Aug 24 07:52:02 <gambler> not sure where that is
Aug 24 07:52:33 <duey> in hamilton haha
Aug 24 07:52:39 <duey> waikato uni that is
Aug 24 07:52:49 <duey> waikato is the region in which hamitlon exists
Aug 24 07:53:39 <umdk1d3> is it possible to override/listen to the volume up/dwon buttons?  instead of it being redirected to system volume service
Aug 24 07:53:42 <gambler> ah i c...hamilton is on the north island right? i think i went there once
Aug 24 07:53:43 <umdk1d3> to be used as zooming controls
Aug 24 07:53:50 <duey> yeah
Aug 24 07:54:56 <gambler> also was supposed to go do dunedin one year but i pulled out at the last minute
Aug 24 07:55:16 <duey> hamilton and dunedin are similar, just boring student towns
Aug 24 07:55:25 <duey> not much in terms of tourism
Aug 24 07:55:33 <duey> similar in size
Aug 24 07:55:49 <muthu> umdk1d3: there used to be a zoomslider, and its missing in 0.9
Aug 24 07:55:50 <gambler> yah I was supposed to present a paper in dunedin but my co author went instead
Aug 24 07:55:59 <duey> ah cool
Aug 24 07:56:06 <umdk1d3> muthu: zoomslider like a control?
Aug 24 07:56:09 <umdk1d3> *widget
Aug 24 07:56:11 * duey has to do a conference soon :(
Aug 24 07:56:14 <muthu> widget
Aug 24 07:56:25 <gambler> duey: presenter?
Aug 24 07:56:27 <duey> honours presentations ftl!
Aug 24 07:56:28 <duey> yeah
Aug 24 07:57:02 <gambler> topic?
Aug 24 07:57:15 <duey> parasitic javascript
Aug 24 07:57:35 <duey> using javascript to compute problems in web browsers
Aug 24 07:57:39 <duey> (without the users knowledge)
Aug 24 07:57:49 <duey> and not impairing performance
Aug 24 07:57:58 <gambler> like distributed computing
Aug 24 07:58:02 <duey> yep
Aug 24 07:58:14 <gambler> thats a sick way to do it without them downloading code
Aug 24 07:58:20 <duey> yeah
Aug 24 07:58:41 <duey> I can't even tell its running anymore
Aug 24 07:59:25 <duey> doing a user study to see
Aug 24 07:59:29 <duey> will be interesting
Aug 24 07:59:36 <gambler> my honours student did his presentation on something similiar awhile back. but his focus was on strategies to detect evil clients
Aug 24 08:00:15 <duey> yeah, I am also doing detection of evil clients
Aug 24 08:00:24 <duey> but its fairly basic
Aug 24 08:00:28 <duey> duplication of work units etc.
Aug 24 08:00:29 <umdk1d3> my proposed solution to finding evil clients is to add an isEvil() method to the Client class
Aug 24 08:00:41 <umdk1d3> j/k  :P
Aug 24 08:00:43 <duey> return true; )?
Aug 24 08:01:05 <umdk1d3> well you would have to iterate over what that client does
Aug 24 08:01:20 <umdk1d3> because the evil-ness of a Client is defined by its Action[]
Aug 24 08:01:55 <duey> lol my definition of an evil client is one that modifies a work unit to return bad results
Aug 24 08:02:01 <gambler> umdk1d3, these are all just computing the answer to a function
Aug 24 08:02:05 <gambler> yes
Aug 24 08:03:45 <gambler> the other thing thats very simple is to randomly check a porportion of its work units...you will tend to converge on isEvil() quite quickly
Aug 24 08:04:18 <duey> yeah I wrote up several solutions, it depends on the problem I have found
Aug 24 08:04:21 <gambler> duey, are you using it for anything interesting
Aug 24 08:04:24 <duey> you can estimate some solutions
Aug 24 08:04:51 <duey> gambler, not really, I have ray tracing for the presentation.  have some machine learning stuff too
Aug 24 08:05:35 <gambler> duey, i know nothing about javascript...how long does it run for, until a new page is surfed-to?
Aug 24 08:05:41 <duey> yeah
Aug 24 08:05:48 <duey> so I have made the work units small
Aug 24 08:05:56 <duey> but its also single threaded
Aug 24 08:06:06 <duey> so if you have long execution of a script it will lock the browser
Aug 24 08:06:06 <gambler> can you hook in a sendResults() to a New-page action?
Aug 24 08:06:17 <duey> I just ajax the results back and forth
Aug 24 08:06:36 <gambler> doesnt that create alot of network I/O
Aug 24 08:06:45 <duey> yep
Aug 24 08:07:03 <duey> next modification is reduction in work unit size for slow connections
Aug 24 08:07:13 <gambler> so you are doing like a heartbeat type thing?
Aug 24 08:07:21 <duey> yeah
Aug 24 08:07:42 <duey> it basically just requests a work unit, computes it and sends it back
Aug 24 08:07:57 <duey> it will keep doing it if the page stays open
Aug 24 08:08:02 <gambler> you should measure the cost of sending a work unit with it's computation time
Aug 24 08:08:14 <duey> yeah, need to find some 56k modems
Aug 24 08:08:19 <duey> no body has them anymore :(
Aug 24 08:08:35 <gambler> with all the marshalling and protocol stuff, id be suprised if your approach was efficient enough
Aug 24 08:08:39 <gambler> i dont understand why you need a modem?
Aug 24 08:08:49 <duey> testing slow connections
Aug 24 08:09:12 <duey> its probably not very efficient
Aug 24 08:09:27 <duey> but its more of a "you can use javascript to do this" watch out
Aug 24 08:09:35 <gambler> ah well im pretty sure you can do rate limiting with iptables
Aug 24 08:09:45 <duey> the original parasitic computing paper computed SAT problems using TCP/HTTP
Aug 24 08:09:56 <duey> it was very very inefficient
Aug 24 08:09:59 <duey> but still interesting
Aug 24 08:10:20 <duey> yeah I might explore that
Aug 24 08:10:23 <duey> or a proxy of some sort
Aug 24 08:10:24 <gambler> gotcha...how about you build a skynet like supercomputer that becomes self aware...each browser represents a neuron
Aug 24 08:10:31 <duey> haha
Aug 24 08:10:48 <duey> well I have a neural network implemented, its a start
Aug 24 08:11:35 <gambler> i believe AI could become self-aware...it wouldnt suprise me in the slightest
Aug 24 08:12:08 <duey> neural networks are a bit of a joke IMO
Aug 24 08:12:31 <gambler> thats a pretty broad term
Aug 24 08:12:38 <duey> in terms of data mining
Aug 24 08:12:41 <duey> perceptrons etc
Aug 24 08:13:28 <gambler> there is alot of really advanced stuff out there
Aug 24 08:13:38 <gambler> more so than peceptrons :p
Aug 24 08:13:48 <duey> yeah
Aug 24 08:14:31 <jasta> so, does anyone have a good strategy for setting up tests with Android?
Aug 24 08:14:54 <jerkface03> port junit over?
Aug 24 08:14:56 <jasta> i want to basically unit test my service
Aug 24 08:14:57 <duey> return true;
Aug 24 08:15:07 <gambler> id settle for an emulator that loaded faster
Aug 24 08:15:10 <jasta> there's all this shit around that looks like you can unit test and instrument android
Aug 24 08:15:16 <jasta> but id ont know how to set up a project to do it?
Aug 24 08:15:37 <jasta> it's like it's all here, but there's no sample build environment or anything on just how to load it up
Aug 24 08:15:56 <muthu> setup an instrumentation class
Aug 24 08:16:11 <jasta> i mean like, ApiDemos has a tests dir
Aug 24 08:16:15 <jasta> with all sorts of stuff that seems like what i want
Aug 24 08:16:19 <jasta> but how do i build it/use it?
Aug 24 08:16:33 <muthu> you run it from adb
Aug 24 08:16:34 <jasta> my friend came in here and started this conversation last week and it really got me wondering
Aug 24 08:16:39 <jasta> muthu: how do you build it?
Aug 24 08:16:47 <Acsia> I managed the instrumentation yesterday
Aug 24 08:16:48 <muthu> regular ant/maven build
Aug 24 08:16:54 <jasta> muthu: there's no build environment there.
Aug 24 08:17:04 <jasta> it's just a manifest and some code.  can't import the project into eclipse.
Aug 24 08:17:19 <muthu> its all part of the same project
Aug 24 08:17:37 <jasta> muthu: no, it's not.
Aug 24 08:17:42 <Acsia> I did not manage to have the 2 manifest for the same project
Aug 24 08:17:52 <jasta> Acsia: right, like how the hell did they do this?
Aug 24 08:17:54 <Acsia> It failed upon installation
Aug 24 08:18:09 <Acsia> but I managed to have instrumentation from my main manifest
Aug 24 08:18:13 <jasta> the thing is that i like the idea of not having my tests get bundled into the freaking release APK :)
Aug 24 08:18:31 <jasta> and also, there must be some nice way to run automated tests for validation?
Aug 24 08:18:36 <Acsia> well potentially you could have another app which would do the instrumentaion
Aug 24 08:18:55 <romainguy_> it's adb shell am to run instrumentations
Aug 24 08:18:55 <Acsia> as long as it is the same signature
Aug 24 08:19:03 <jasta> Acsia: but can i distribute them both in the same build system?
Aug 24 08:19:36 <jasta> romainguy_: but like what should my build environment look like?  how does ApiDemos do it?
Aug 24 08:19:49 <Acsia> I used the same app, it s not very well documented
Aug 24 08:19:54 <jasta> ApiDemos seems to have some really slick testing framework in there...
Aug 24 08:20:03 <romainguy_> it's just built the same way as any other apk
Aug 24 08:20:16 <Acsia> so I have my tests under acceptance folder in eclipse
Aug 24 08:20:17 <jasta> romainguy_: well, it fails if you import it into Eclipse
Aug 24 08:20:32 <romainguy_> why does it fail?
Aug 24 08:20:44 <romainguy_> (our build system is based on make, not ant btw)
Aug 24 08:20:46 <jasta> it says there are no activities defined.  hang on, i'll try again and get the exact error
Aug 24 08:20:52 <romainguy_> ah
Aug 24 08:20:56 <romainguy_> that's because of the plugin
Aug 24 08:21:04 <romainguy_> the plugin probably doesn't know how to handle these guys
Aug 24 08:21:06 <jasta> so, if i just copy some standard build.xml in here it should work?
Aug 24 08:21:13 <romainguy_> it should
Aug 24 08:21:18 <Acsia> have you seen what positron aim to do?
Aug 24 08:21:19 <jasta> standard being the one taht is for normla projects...
Aug 24 08:21:27 <romainguy_> but yeah, we have a cool instrumentation framework
Aug 24 08:21:39 <romainguy_> and we're working on cooler stuff
Aug 24 08:21:55 <jasta> i'd like to start introducing real tests into my project is why i ask
Aug 24 08:22:02 <jasta> i'd like good unit tests for all my services and stuff
Aug 24 08:22:07 <jasta> so i don't have to manually test this crap all the time :)
Aug 24 08:22:10 <Acsia> postiron starts a server so you can run tests that way
Aug 24 08:22:20 <Acsia> there is Serviceinstrumentation
Aug 24 08:22:30 <Acsia> activity and application instrumentation
Aug 24 08:22:53 <jasta> hang on, i'm trying to get the ApiDemos test stuffs to build...
Aug 24 08:22:55 <Acsia> but positron starts a server so you can run scripts against your app via the server
Aug 24 08:23:33 <Acsia> it s quite neat and the aim is to run it like via irb I beleive
Aug 24 08:23:45 <Acsia> this is from trunk and undocumented obvioulsy
Aug 24 08:27:15 <jasta> romainguy_: hmm, tons of errors...
Aug 24 08:27:51 <jasta> of course, because it's trying to build separate but clearly depends on the other tree
Aug 24 08:27:55 <jasta> hmmm
Aug 24 08:29:05 <romainguy_> just make it dependent of the other tree
Aug 24 08:29:15 <romainguy_> ask krosaen next time he's around
Aug 24 08:29:17 <jasta> yeah i'm trying to think how to do that.  i don't really know ant at all.
Aug 24 08:29:57 <jasta> i could use maven, except the maven plugin hasn't been updated to 0.9r1 yet
Aug 24 08:30:14 <muthu> jasta: set the path, before you compile
Aug 24 08:30:37 <jasta> huh?
Aug 24 08:30:54 <muthu> you'll have to look into the ant build.xml
Aug 24 08:32:23 <jasta> muthu: have you done this before?
Aug 24 08:32:34 <muthu> ant?
Aug 24 08:32:51 <muthu> i ran instrumentation before 0.9 in the same project
Aug 24 08:32:51 <jasta> created a functional build environment to build separate apks for testing/instrumentation?
Aug 24 08:32:55 <muthu> worked fine
Aug 24 08:33:21 <muthu> no, currently i'm not wasting anymore time on instrumentation :P
Aug 24 08:33:26 <jasta> why not?
Aug 24 08:33:40 <muthu> because i'm in planning stage
Aug 24 08:33:48 <muthu> no code to test, lol
Aug 24 08:34:22 <muthu> i would advice, to keep the tests in the same project
Aug 24 08:34:36 <muthu> to start with, then may be branch it out
Aug 24 08:34:39 <jasta> i want to keep in the same project, but i would prefer to have two different apks
Aug 24 08:34:49 <jasta> so i dont have to distribute an apk that has tests in it.  that's silly
Aug 24 08:34:55 <muthu> tests will be excluded
Aug 24 08:34:58 <muthu> if i'm right
Aug 24 08:35:01 <jasta> i think im just gonna need to get maven up and running...
Aug 24 08:35:07 <jasta> so i can build it properly ;)
Aug 24 08:35:28 <muthu> need to look into maven android plugin
Aug 24 08:35:32 <muthu> haven't tried it yet
Aug 24 08:35:38 <muthu> ant works well enough for now
Aug 24 08:35:38 <jasta> they haven't updated it, but for M5 it was sweet
Aug 24 08:35:43 <jasta> and it wouldnt need many changes to work, theyre just being lazy
Aug 24 08:35:52 <muthu> yeah, that's the problem
Aug 24 08:35:59 <muthu> that's why i just stick with activitycreator
Aug 24 08:36:00 <jasta> i like maven because there's less voodoo in the build programming.
Aug 24 08:36:12 <jasta> the build.xml that activitycreator generates is huge :)
Aug 24 08:36:20 <muthu> ha, come on!
Aug 24 08:36:20 <jasta> all that logic is built into the maven plugin
Aug 24 08:36:30 <muthu> that's nothing.. i've worked with huge ant files before
Aug 24 08:36:37 <jasta> anyway, im gonna try to figure this out, i havent seen instrumentation running yet
Aug 24 08:37:00 <muthu> someone was trying 0.9 and said instrumentation did not work
Aug 24 08:39:59 <Acsia> muthu, I managed instrumentation with 0.9
Aug 24 08:40:27 <muthu> oh yeah, it was acsia
Aug 24 08:40:36 <muthu> what's solved it?
Aug 24 08:40:49 <Acsia> you were correct btw with the permissino
Aug 24 08:40:58 <Acsia> you need
Aug 24 08:40:58 <Acsia> <uses-library android:name="android.test.runner" />
Aug 24 08:41:12 <Acsia> otherwise you ll get classnotfound
Aug 24 08:42:34 <muthu> right.. that's what i remembered
Aug 24 08:42:49 <Acsia> it s quite differrent from m5
Aug 24 08:43:20 <muthu> yeah, learned it the hard way when my maps stopped working
Aug 24 08:43:31 <muthu> and was looking for this weird error
Aug 24 08:43:49 <muthu> and jasta accused me for not disclosing enough info for him to debug.. hehe
Aug 24 08:44:32 <Acsia> hehe
Aug 24 08:49:50 <BBHoss> do most of the samples with 0.9 not work, or is it just me?
Aug 24 08:50:45 <jasta> Acsia: do you have a simple sample project with instrumentation working?
Aug 24 08:51:04 <Acsia> well not simple but I have one yes
Aug 24 08:53:05 <jasta> Acsia: but it's all just mushed into one apk/manifest?
Aug 24 08:53:11 <jasta> the tests and the code it tests, i mean
Aug 24 08:53:17 <Acsia> yes
Aug 24 08:53:26 <Acsia> but it s in another src folder
Aug 24 08:53:41 <jasta> how do you make that work if it's all in the same manifest?
Aug 24 08:53:43 <Acsia> so when you want to compile your actual public apk, you can still skip it
Aug 24 08:54:27 <Acsia> well why should it not work from the same manifest?
Aug 24 08:54:56 <romainguy_> ApiDemos has a second manifest for the tests
Aug 24 08:55:05 <BBHoss> like the snake example complains about not being able to resolve class R
Aug 24 08:55:06 <romainguy_> is it in the SDK?
Aug 24 08:55:09 <BBHoss> which is bullshit
Aug 24 08:55:16 <Acsia> I did not managed to make that one work
Aug 24 08:55:27 <Acsia> the second manifest
Aug 24 08:55:32 <jasta> romainguy_: it is, but i don't see how you can make that work.  i just looked at the code and it doesn't even import the stuff it tries to test.
Aug 24 08:55:34 <Acsia> it complains with manifest not found
Aug 24 08:56:13 <romainguy_> jasta: because it's in the same package
Aug 24 08:56:15 <jasta> Acsia: whats your build environment?  ant?  do you just conditionalize building the tests, but leave the manifest referencing them?
Aug 24 08:56:35 <Acsia> I use one manifest at the end
Aug 24 08:56:42 <jasta> oh, so it is.  i thought it was in com.android.samples.test
Aug 24 08:58:23 <BBHoss> why wont this shit just work?  every single example or sample code i've tried is broken out of the box, the only ones ive been able to get working are the hello android example!!!!
Aug 24 08:59:10 <romainguy_> BBHoss: ??
Aug 24 08:59:22 <BBHoss> the fucking snake sample code wont even work
Aug 24 08:59:27 <romainguy_> BBHoss: what's the problem with the examples?
Aug 24 08:59:31 <BBHoss> complains about not being able to resolve R
Aug 24 08:59:41 <romainguy_> did you compile it to generate the R file?
Aug 24 08:59:44 <BBHoss> i didnt change anything
Aug 24 08:59:48 <BBHoss> this is in eclipse
Aug 24 09:00:03 <romainguy_> you need to compile the sample to generate the R file
Aug 24 09:00:41 <BBHoss> how does that work?
Aug 24 09:00:54 <BBHoss> eclipse is supposed to do it automatically
Aug 24 09:00:59 <jasta> romainguy_: ...
Aug 24 09:01:03 <jasta> $ adb shell am instrument -w com.android.samples.tests/android.test.InstrumentationTestRunner
Aug 24 09:01:06 <jasta> [1]   Killed                  am instrument -w...
Aug 24 09:01:08 <jasta> ???
Aug 24 09:01:26 <BBHoss> [2008-08-24 03:57:52 - Snake] Starting incremental Pre Compiler: Checking resource changes.
Aug 24 09:01:26 <BBHoss> [2008-08-24 03:57:52 - Snake] Nothing to pre compile!
Aug 24 09:01:30 <jasta> it stalls for a second or two, then apparently it's firing off SIGKILL?
Aug 24 09:01:43 <jasta> oh yikes.
Aug 24 09:01:58 <jasta> E/AndroidRuntime(  311): *** EXCEPTION IN SYSTEM PROCESS.  System will crash.
Aug 24 09:01:58 <jasta> E/AndroidRuntime(  311): java.lang.SecurityException: Permission Denial: starting instrumentation ComponentInfo{com.android.samples.tests/android.test.InstrumentationTestRunner} from pid=311, uid=311 not allowed because package com.android.samples.tests does not have a signature matching the target com.android.samples
Aug 24 09:02:04 <jasta> hehe :)
Aug 24 09:02:14 <jasta> i guess that answers my question though.  i will need to also build ApiDemos.apk and sign it myself
Aug 24 09:02:16 <BBHoss> romainguy_: do you know what the problem is?
Aug 24 09:02:23 <romainguy_> where do you get that .test package from?
Aug 24 09:02:39 <jasta> romainguy_: that command line came from the tests/AndroidManifest.xml
Aug 24 09:02:47 <romainguy_> ah it's probably outdated
Aug 24 09:02:51 <jasta> which claims it is from package com.android.samples.tests
Aug 24 09:02:55 <romainguy_> we used to have .tests packages with the old models
Aug 24 09:03:01 <romainguy_> ah wait
Aug 24 09:03:03 <romainguy_> no I see
Aug 24 09:03:10 <jasta> but then all the classes are not in .tests
Aug 24 09:03:14 <jasta> so i dont have any clue :)
Aug 24 09:03:17 <romainguy_> it's not the java package
Aug 24 09:03:26 <romainguy_> try to rename the package from the manifest to remove the .tests
Aug 24 09:03:28 <romainguy_> see if it works
Aug 24 09:04:17 <jasta> romainguy_: well, i figured the error was about the signing of the apidemos.apk package, so im fixing that
Aug 24 09:04:24 <Acsia> jast you need to have 2 diff package's name otherwise you won t be able to install both
Aug 24 09:04:34 <jasta> Acsia: right, i think thats why thye did it that way
Aug 24 09:05:18 <jasta> ok, here goes
Aug 24 09:05:29 <jasta> worked, yay :)
Aug 24 09:05:42 <BBHoss> romainguy_: how am i, or why am i, supposed to manually compile a file in the IDE, this seems very backwards, and I didn't have to do this with some other layout stuff i have worked on?
Aug 24 09:06:01 <romainguy_> BBHoss: you don't have to manually compile anything
Aug 24 09:06:07 <romainguy_> the R file is generated when you compile the project
Aug 24 09:06:09 <jasta> the instrumentation stuffs is pretty cool...
Aug 24 09:06:10 <BBHoss> then wtf is wrong with this shit?
Aug 24 09:06:16 <romainguy_> I have no diea
Aug 24 09:06:29 <romainguy_> you keep swearing without giving much details about what you do
Aug 24 09:06:32 <romainguy_> doesn't help
Aug 24 09:06:36 <BBHoss> so google distributed a totally broken sample directory?
Aug 24 09:06:40 <romainguy_> no, it is not
Aug 24 09:06:44 <romainguy_> it works just fine
Aug 24 09:07:03 <BBHoss> NONE OF THE SAMPLES WORK THE ERROR IS THAT IT CANT RESOLVE R, SO ECLIPSE WONT COMPILE THE PACKAGE, PERIOD....
Aug 24 09:07:26 <BBHoss> there is no more information, no other errors, etc
Aug 24 09:07:32 <jasta> romainguy_: just seems to print a bunch of dots, though.  i expected more flare :P
Aug 24 09:07:34 <romainguy_> BBHoss: yeah I got that, but you still haven't explained how you open the samples in Eclipse, etc.
Aug 24 09:07:44 <BBHoss> romainguy_: i imported the project
Aug 24 09:07:46 <romainguy_> BBHoss: but if you'd rather keep swearing, good luck to you :)
Aug 24 09:08:03 <romainguy_> jasta: yeah well, when you run these suckers all day long, you don't want more flare :)
Aug 24 09:08:13 <romainguy_> especially the UI framework tests
Aug 24 09:08:13 <jasta> i thought the normal junit runner does kind of a test-by-test OK/FAIL thing?
Aug 24 09:08:17 <romainguy_> they take long enough that way
Aug 24 09:08:25 <romainguy_> jasta: that's exactly what it is
Aug 24 09:08:31 <romainguy_> just in a different format
Aug 24 09:08:42 <jasta> oh i get it.  each '.' is a successful test, right?
Aug 24 09:08:46 <romainguy_> each dot is a success
Aug 24 09:08:48 <romainguy_> E would be a fail
Aug 24 09:09:05 <jasta> that's pretty cool.  i wonde rwhy you guys didn't include a build.xml that would let people actually see this :)
Aug 24 09:09:14 <BBHoss> romainguy_: what more do i have to do other than importing the project, i didnt change anything?
Aug 24 09:09:15 <jasta> i'll post something on my blog tomorrow tho.
Aug 24 09:09:39 <romainguy_> jasta: because we were busy and forgot it
Aug 24 09:09:48 <romainguy_> our internal build system is based on make
Aug 24 09:09:58 <romainguy_> so when everything works, it's easy to forget something like this
Aug 24 09:10:01 <romainguy_> file a bug
Aug 24 09:10:30 <BBHoss> romainguy_: when i start a new project from existing source, it gives me the same error
Aug 24 09:10:45 <romainguy_> BBHoss: did you install the Android plugin?
Aug 24 09:10:52 <BBHoss> of course
Aug 24 09:10:56 <romainguy_> or updated to the new one for the current SKD?
Aug 24 09:10:57 <romainguy_> SDK
Aug 24 09:11:03 <BBHoss> yes, this is all 0.9
Aug 24 09:11:14 <jasta> did you also configure the Eclipse plugin and specifically point it to the path of your 0.9 SDK?
Aug 24 09:11:18 <BBHoss> i removed eclipse totally before installing the new stuff
Aug 24 09:11:20 <BBHoss> yes
Aug 24 09:12:11 <BBHoss> it works with basic stuff, but any tutorials or samples dont work, for various reasons, maybe they are just old.  the main frustration is that i cant get the samples included with 0.9 to work
Aug 24 09:13:35 <BBHoss> sorry for getting upset, i just feel horrible i have some kind of cold or something and it feel like crap...
Aug 24 09:14:05 <romainguy_> do you have ant installed that you can use from the command line?
Aug 24 09:14:21 <BBHoss> yes, the tools directory is in my path
Aug 24 09:15:22 <BBHoss> compile fail: http://pasternak.superalloy.nl/pastes/763
Aug 24 09:16:07 <romainguy_> do you have anything else in the compile log?
Aug 24 09:16:22 <BBHoss> yeah, i can paste it, but i dont think its relevant
Aug 24 09:16:37 <BBHoss> http://pasternak.superalloy.nl/pastes/764
Aug 24 09:16:38 <romainguy_> paste it please
Aug 24 09:17:17 <romainguy_> wait
Aug 24 09:17:26 <romainguy_> that is not the sample of the new SDK
Aug 24 09:17:56 <BBHoss> the timestamp is August 14 2008
Aug 24 09:18:06 <romainguy_> this code is different from the one of the SDK
Aug 24 09:18:14 <romainguy_> the package is com.google.android.snake instead of com.android.snake
Aug 24 09:18:31 <romainguy_> and setContentView(R.layout.main) instead of setContentView(R.layout.snake_layout)
Aug 24 09:18:44 <BBHoss> well, when i load it in eclipse, it recognizes the com.google* and com.android*
Aug 24 09:18:58 <BBHoss> lets see what happens if i delete the "old" one
Aug 24 09:19:04 <romainguy_> then you have the samples from a previous SDK somewhere
Aug 24 09:19:18 <romainguy_> did you mix the two SDKs?
Aug 24 09:20:10 <BBHoss> no, not to my knowledge
Aug 24 09:20:23 <romainguy_> looks like you did somehow
Aug 24 09:20:41 <BBHoss> hmm, that might explain my pain
Aug 24 09:20:50 <BBHoss> lemme download a fresh copy and see if its in there
Aug 24 09:20:54 <romainguy_> ok
Aug 24 09:21:32 <BBHoss> moving all of the old classes into the new package fixed it though
Aug 24 09:21:40 <romainguy_> you should not have to do this
Aug 24 09:21:46 <romainguy_> you should not have the old classes
Aug 24 09:24:22 <BBHoss> romainguy_: hmm, it must have gotten mixed up somehow, 'cause the new copy doesn't have the error.  Thanks!
Aug 24 09:26:31 <jasta> sweet, got tests set up like ApiDemos in five-client now :)
Aug 24 09:26:43 <jasta> two separate builds ;)
Aug 24 09:26:49 <jasta> but both managed under the same project in eclipse
Aug 24 09:26:56 <jasta> hooray
Aug 24 09:27:31 <BBHoss> where does the emulator store its data?
Aug 24 09:27:44 <BBHoss> home directory?
Aug 24 09:27:54 <jasta> BBHoss: in ~/.android/
Aug 24 09:28:19 <jasta> romainguy_: this is exciting.  thanks for helping me get this goin
Aug 24 09:28:31 <BBHoss> ahh, i just deleted the entire sdk and just booted up the emulator and was like wtf mate? it still has all my data :)
Aug 24 09:28:48 <jasta> thats why you run -wipe-data between releases ;)
Aug 24 09:30:32 <BBHoss> jasta: ok thanks
Aug 24 09:30:35 <romainguy_> jasta: check out android.test.TouchUtils
Aug 24 09:30:50 <romainguy_> and android.test.ViewAsserts
Aug 24 09:30:56 <jasta> uhh, where? :)
Aug 24 09:31:04 <romainguy_> in the API
Aug 24 09:31:17 <jasta> they arent documented :)
Aug 24 09:32:20 <romainguy_> but the IDE can autocomplete
Aug 24 09:32:31 <jasta> i'll take a look at the classes ;)
Aug 24 09:32:39 <romainguy_> also instrumented activities have some cool methods
Aug 24 09:32:44 <romainguy_> like sendKeys()
Aug 24 09:34:47 <tric> jasta: would be really cool if you can write about your problems and solutions somewhere, i wanna use it aswell.
Aug 24 09:36:46 <jasta> tric: i plan to blog about it tomorrow
Aug 24 09:37:01 <Acsia> where s your blog jasta?
Aug 24 09:37:04 <jasta> devtcg.org
Aug 24 09:37:36 <muthu> what does devtcg mean?
Aug 24 09:38:07 <jasta> just something me and some high school friends came up with as a moniker for all of our development efforts.
Aug 24 09:38:33 <jasta> it stuck, and we all still use it for stuff.
Aug 24 09:38:35 <muthu> change it to jastarocksandroid :P
Aug 24 09:56:08 <jasta> romainguy_: there's a getService() method on ServiceTestCase, is that what i'm supposed to use to get a handle for tests to use?  the LocalServiceTest doesn't use that method, but maybe it should?
Aug 24 09:56:55 <jasta> wait nm, that doesn't get the interface to the service :)
Aug 24 09:58:00 <jasta> i guess i should just handle taht myself in setupService and shutdownService?
Aug 24 10:01:28 <Acsia> man
Aug 24 10:01:37 <Acsia> this locking of the db makes it quite hard to instrument
Aug 24 10:05:29 <jasta> oh it seems to run all of these tests in a separate context, so you have to call bindservice each time.  that makes sense, i guess.
Aug 24 10:36:02 <anno^da> good monring guys
Aug 24 10:36:04 <anno^da> morning
Aug 24 10:36:09 <jasta> mornin
Aug 24 10:37:14 <anno^da> jasta: I like the post that you gave me yesterday. This kind of stopping I/O is really great.
Aug 24 10:37:28 <anno^da> I got a few questions later on.
Aug 24 10:37:39 <anno^da> regarding that.
Aug 24 10:41:11 <jasta> anno^da: sure...
Aug 24 10:44:05 <jasta> anno^da: ill be going to bed soon fyi
Aug 24 10:45:08 <anno^da> Yeah no problem. I have to end up my project here so dont wait. I have to write down all the questions the next days.
Aug 24 11:08:12 <jasta> *sweet*, the five-client project now has unit tests in SVN
Aug 24 11:08:54 <jasta> http://code.google.com/p/five/source/browse/#svn/trunk/five-client/tests
Aug 24 11:08:56 <anno^da> Oh testing I should do that as well in my next project :>
Aug 24 11:09:44 <jasta> it's total black magic right now, undocumented completely in Android
Aug 24 11:09:57 <jasta> but it does work.  the apidemos has a pretty crude sample that you can use for reference.
Aug 24 11:10:02 <jasta> and i just also produced some tests
Aug 24 11:10:11 <anno^da> :)
Aug 24 11:11:02 <anno^da> But I can tell you that it is pretty satisfying seeing my first app running :>
Aug 24 11:14:31 <yakischloba> oh go to bed jeez
Aug 24 11:14:45 <jasta> yakischloba: me? :)
Aug 24 11:15:02 <yakischloba> jasta: yes you. you have no business being up when anno^da is having breakfast or w/e ;)
Aug 24 11:15:14 <jasta> yakischloba: well what are you doing here? :)
Aug 24 11:15:41 <yakischloba> jasta: getting home from my last loco evening out before getting serious about the new job and winter training
Aug 24 11:16:11 <yakischloba> jasta: no excuses now, find your pillow :)
Aug 24 11:16:29 <jasta> yakischloba: well i'm like 20% through fundamentally redesigning the Android side of Five :)
Aug 24 11:17:01 <jasta> basically all of five-client is rewritten and redesigned
Aug 24 11:17:14 <anno^da> :D
Aug 24 11:17:15 <yakischloba> nice
Aug 24 11:17:21 <anno^da> yakischloba: I'm back from lunch :D
Aug 24 11:17:29 <jasta> it's much faster and more correct :)
Aug 24 11:17:35 <jasta> both in design and implementation
Aug 24 11:17:42 <jasta> and it's a heck of a lot simpler, too
Aug 24 11:17:50 <yakischloba> well I, at this time, and much slow and less correct
Aug 24 11:17:55 <yakischloba> in both design and implementation
Aug 24 11:18:02 <yakischloba> s/and/am
Aug 24 11:18:15 <yakischloba> blah
Aug 24 11:18:22 <jasta> this is why i was so excited to have a near stable release finally.  now i can really move in and start cementing some shit down
Aug 24 11:18:29 <jasta> and making a design and code base i can be proud of
Aug 24 11:18:46 <jasta> instead of all this spaghetti crap i had in there before
Aug 24 11:18:54 <yakischloba> you have plenty to be proud of. everything in moderation now ;)
Aug 24 11:19:05 <jasta> im very happy to finally have unit testing neatly integrated
Aug 24 11:19:06 <yakischloba> not that I adhere to that but I'll preach it anyways
Aug 24 11:19:13 <yakischloba> maybe I'll listen to myself someday
Aug 24 11:19:17 <jasta> once the maven plugin is updated (grr, i may have to just submit patches) i'll be on my way again
Aug 24 11:20:13 <BBHoss> jasta: what protocol does your client for five use?
Aug 24 11:21:11 <jasta> BBHoss: ofr talking over the internet?  SyncML over HTTP, as well as simple HTTP GETs for other stuff.
Aug 24 11:21:29 <BBHoss> are you using something like RESTful design?
Aug 24 11:21:32 <jasta> client and server both do WbXML
Aug 24 11:22:01 <jasta> BBHoss: no, not really.  the HTTP GETs i mentioned are just for content delivery which is RESTful but it's mostly just obvious
Aug 24 11:22:29 <jasta> SyncML is a very appropriate protocol here.  It is basically a general purpose protocol to synchronize incremental changes between two remote databases.
Aug 24 11:22:31 <yakischloba> rest is over-rated.
Aug 24 11:22:55 <BBHoss> ahh ok, i am planning a mobile version of my app that uses rails and AMQP, and I was going to use XMPP, but it has been removed so i'm wondering what i'm left with
Aug 24 11:22:59 <jasta> With built-in conflict resolution, anchoring, etc.  And it specifies the use of WbXML for efficient encoding/parsing.
Aug 24 11:24:05 <jasta> SyncML is maybe not strictly the most efficient way to do this, but it is certainly a fair compromise between flexibility, fault tolerance, and performance.
Aug 24 11:24:42 <jasta> and also i get a robust, free server-side implementation with libsyncml
Aug 24 11:24:42 <BBHoss> my main thing i want to do is push alerts and notifications to each device, individually
Aug 24 11:25:03 <jasta> BBHoss: Yeah, GTalk was kind of supposed to be that I guess.  I don't know what's going on there.
Aug 24 11:25:14 <jasta> Maybe the carriers cried foul?  They want you to use SMS and pay them big bucks.
Aug 24 11:25:47 <BBHoss> jasta: i think it has to do more with the network load of XMPP, since GTalk is heavily modified XMPP for mobile networsk
Aug 24 11:26:04 <BBHoss> the carriers will get their money with data fees
Aug 24 11:26:11 <jasta> BBHoss: we were talking about two different things...
Aug 24 11:26:28 <jasta> XMPP was removed a while ago
Aug 24 11:26:32 <BBHoss> i know
Aug 24 11:26:40 <anno^da> But in the end some XMPP GTalk implementation will come
Aug 24 11:26:40 <jasta> GTalk remained though, and they were planning to change the protocol away from XMPP completely
Aug 24 11:26:43 <BBHoss> the latest news on gtalk is that there is some security flaw
Aug 24 11:26:47 <jasta> then they removed GTalk completely
Aug 24 11:26:51 <anno^da> no matter if google implements it or not
Aug 24 11:26:57 <BBHoss> thats why gtalk is no longer in there
Aug 24 11:27:06 <jasta> BBHoss: yeah well, we'll see.
Aug 24 11:27:21 <BBHoss> jasta: have you read the post about why they didnt go with xmpp?
Aug 24 11:27:26 <jasta> i still think there's a good possibility google won't be able to get away with using GTalk to "replace" SMS.
Aug 24 11:27:39 <jasta> BBHoss: no, but i assume it's because it's slow and stupid :)
Aug 24 11:27:42 <BBHoss> jasta: i dont think thats the intent
Aug 24 11:27:54 <BBHoss> heh, they want to send intents :)
Aug 24 11:28:07 <jasta> BBHoss: seems like it.  a reliable peer-to-peer messaging framework for mobile devices? :)
Aug 24 11:28:31 * yakischloba sets an example and goes to sleep, knowing that work will come early on Monday
Aug 24 11:28:34 <BBHoss> jasta: well it comes down to that xmpp isnt really suited for mobile, for many reasons, and the Mobile XMPP standard is still a year out
Aug 24 11:28:52 <jasta> BBHoss: right, slow and stupid. :)
Aug 24 11:29:13 <BBHoss> now i think they should give AMQP a look though, its really lightweight
Aug 24 11:29:24 <BBHoss> not sure about connection overhead though
Aug 24 11:29:29 * jasta follows yakischloba
Aug 24 11:29:34 <BBHoss> heh
Aug 24 11:29:36 <jasta> err, except i'm going to my bed
Aug 24 11:29:36 <BBHoss> night then
Aug 24 11:29:40 <jasta> not his ;)
Aug 24 11:29:41 <jasta> hehe
Aug 24 11:29:49 <jasta> later
Aug 24 11:30:05 <anno^da> n8 jasta
Aug 24 11:30:07 <anno^da> :)
Aug 24 11:50:51 <Acsia> is is TestSuite working properly?
Aug 24 11:51:01 <Acsia> anyboydy can help with TestSuiteProvider
Aug 24 11:51:02 <Acsia> ?
Aug 24 12:01:04 <Acsia> how would I creat a one time setUp and tearDown?
Aug 24 12:01:24 <Acsia> is the TestSuit working with instrumentation?
Aug 24 12:04:08 <anno^da> Could someone tell me where I can lookup what the ACTION_PICK for the Images gets me back. I now that it is in the extras of the intent I'm getting back but to get it out of the Bundle I have to know what the bundle content is called
Aug 24 12:04:15 <anno^da> how it is called
Aug 24 12:04:38 <Acsia> log it
Aug 24 12:22:20 <anno^da> data=Intent { data=content://media/external/images/media/8 } <- thats what I'm getting I've tested now getString("data") bot doesnt finde it. I've debugged it but dont get the point how I could get it out. There must be some docu for that.
Aug 24 12:25:40 <_Marvin_> hello there...
Aug 24 12:32:59 <anno^da> lol easy as pie data.getData(); :(
Aug 24 12:53:14 <anno^da> What is the right way to put a URI into a Bundle ? Should I submit it as a string and at the receiver turn it back into a URI?
Aug 24 12:59:13 <inZane-> i guess that's the only way
Aug 24 13:00:15 <inZane-> since there is not setData method like in Intent
Aug 24 13:02:40 <muthu> jasta: nice jobs with tests
Aug 24 13:03:52 <muthu> olympics closes finally
Aug 24 13:04:06 <muthu> china is the new superpower
Aug 24 13:04:08 <anno^da> setParcelable works @ inZane-
Aug 24 13:04:17 <anno^da> put.. :D
Aug 24 13:04:37 <anno^da> well China how many people live there :P
Aug 24 13:05:22 <inZane-> URI implements parcelable?
Aug 24 13:08:29 <muthu> yeah, there's a lot of people in india too
Aug 24 13:09:20 <anno^da> inZane-: yeah that works but I got a bigger problem now
Aug 24 13:11:00 <anno^da> I want to create a File out of a Uri and dont know what is the right way to do that
Aug 24 13:11:39 <muthu> anno^da: use the file api
Aug 24 13:11:47 <inZane-> no
Aug 24 13:11:49 <anno^da> At first I thought String path = uri.getPath() ;  File file = new File(path); But that gives me a file which is null
Aug 24 13:11:51 <inZane-> Context.openFileOutput()
Aug 24 13:13:29 <anno^da> well that method takes a String and not an Uri
Aug 24 13:14:26 <anno^da> is it not possible to get a valid file path out of the uri
Aug 24 13:15:07 <inZane-> why are you using an uri for a file?
Aug 24 13:15:34 <anno^da> well I'm choosing a picture with the Pick action
Aug 24 13:15:43 <anno^da> and so I#m getting back an URI
Aug 24 13:15:48 <anno^da> to the picked image
Aug 24 13:15:58 <anno^da> So I have to deal with the Uri :)
Aug 24 13:16:26 <muthu> what's the string rep of this uri?
Aug 24 13:16:27 <anno^da> And I need a File because I have to put that into the MultiPart Message :)
Aug 24 13:16:51 <anno^da> Picture Path: /external/images/media/8
Aug 24 13:17:03 <anno^da> thats what I get if I'm calling uri.getPath()
Aug 24 13:17:13 <muthu> uri.tostring?
Aug 24 13:17:16 <anno^da> just that "/external/images/media/8"
Aug 24 13:17:21 <anno^da> oh let me test
Aug 24 13:18:05 <muthu> that'll work with a content provider
Aug 24 13:18:13 <inZane-> arent the images saved in the contentprovider?
Aug 24 13:18:24 <inZane-> i mean the sqlite database
Aug 24 13:18:53 <anno^da> muthu: 08-24 15:18:33.760: ERROR/PHOTO_CHOOSE(3209): content://media/external/images/media/8
Aug 24 13:19:03 <muthu> yeah
Aug 24 13:19:11 <muthu> so its a uri which will work with a content provider
Aug 24 13:20:26 <anno^da> but cmon the Uri is the representation of the file in the content provider there must be some easy way to get the real path to the file directly from the Uri :D
Aug 24 13:21:37 <muthu> the content provider will store that in a path
Aug 24 13:21:45 <muthu> not sure if that would be accessible to you directly
Aug 24 13:29:02 <muthu> london represented by an indian girl
Aug 24 13:29:41 <muthu> hmm.. london diversity is shining
Aug 24 14:21:24 <anno^da> Oh man I got it now
Aug 24 14:22:11 <anno^da> it is so long winded to do add a photo from an uri to a multipart message :)
Aug 24 14:22:21 <muthu> how you did?
Aug 24 14:24:28 <anno^da> http://paste.pocoo.org/show/83196/
Aug 24 14:24:49 <muthu> gr8..checking out
Aug 24 14:25:12 <anno^da> the uri is in a parcelable because I had to transport it to my FlickrClient class :)
Aug 24 14:26:11 <anno^da> with a normal file path it is 3 lines of code :)
Aug 24 14:30:15 <anno^da> But ok I wont complain it is working fine now :D
Aug 24 15:45:26 <anno^da> Does someone know if picking of audio should work ? (ACTION_PICK)
Aug 24 17:08:12 <Pakalaka> When installing android sdk on linux should I copy it to my home directory or to /opt for instance under the filesystem and under the control of root?
Aug 24 17:13:09 <anno^da> Coule someone tell me if there is one working example for audio recording with the MediaRecorder? I'm getting crazy dealing with the faulty examples :/
Aug 24 17:14:30 <muthu> Pakalaka: whatever you are comfortable with
Aug 24 17:15:21 <trigatch4> whattup folks
Aug 24 17:15:42 <trigatch4> anyone have a minute to offer an opinion for me?
Aug 24 17:17:47 <muthu> trigatch4: we are here
Aug 24 17:17:55 <muthu> 24x7 logged in
Aug 24 17:18:01 <muthu> to offer opinions all the time
Aug 24 17:18:03 <trigatch4> hehe, thats the spirit
Aug 24 17:18:25 <trigatch4> 24/7? jeez you must be some kind of robot or something...
Aug 24 17:18:32 <trigatch4> maybe... an android or something... hehe
Aug 24 17:18:36 <muthu> hehe
Aug 24 17:18:46 <trigatch4> so i'm trying to organize my forum
Aug 24 17:18:51 <trigatch4> i'm going to be promoting it more heavily
Aug 24 17:18:56 <trigatch4> now that android is actually starting to surface
Aug 24 17:19:00 <trigatch4> as a consumer product
Aug 24 17:19:05 <muthu> yeah android is coming..
Aug 24 17:19:07 <trigatch4> and i want to get some opinions on organization of the forums
Aug 24 17:19:16 <trigatch4> forums to add, delete, ordering, etc..
Aug 24 17:19:21 <trigatch4> http://androidforums.com
Aug 24 17:19:25 <muthu> let me look
Aug 24 17:19:54 <trigatch4> honest criticism/suggestions appreciated
Aug 24 17:19:57 <muthu> here's an idea:
Aug 24 17:20:02 <muthu> have code snippets
Aug 24 17:20:15 <muthu> Android Code Snippets
Aug 24 17:20:18 <Pakalaka> thank you.
Aug 24 17:20:24 <muthu> where we can post bits of code
Aug 24 17:20:49 <anno^da> Well my first opionion looking at the page was - dont fix it to such a width. I'm getting 40% of my screen filled
Aug 24 17:21:26 <muthu> yeah, make it 100%
Aug 24 17:21:33 <muthu> for a forum use all the real estate you can
Aug 24 17:21:47 <anno^da> And regarding the code snippets I would like to see some working MediaRecorder recording Audio :D
Aug 24 17:22:28 <muthu> anno^da: the idea is inspired from you
Aug 24 17:22:34 <muthu> you keep posting the pastebin code
Aug 24 17:22:41 <trigatch4> use fluid width?
Aug 24 17:22:42 <anno^da> It's annoying that I'm guessing all the time beacause all the examples in the docs fail.
Aug 24 17:22:51 <trigatch4> problem is some people have huge screens and then it looks idiotic
Aug 24 17:22:57 <muthu> and i thought, it would be nice to post these code snippets somewhere where users can browse
Aug 24 17:23:01 <trigatch4> what if i spread the width to like 960px or so
Aug 24 17:23:02 <anno^da> muthu: I will post the first working example.
Aug 24 17:23:15 <muthu> i know ;)
Aug 24 17:23:31 <trigatch4> Code Snippets?
Aug 24 17:23:41 <trigatch4> See I'm not a developer... so that would be difficult for me
Aug 24 17:23:41 <muthu> yes, like cookbook style
Aug 24 17:23:47 <trigatch4> thats something that members would have to do themselves
Aug 24 17:23:49 <trigatch4> hehe
Aug 24 17:23:51 <muthu> trigatch4: its not for you
Aug 24 17:23:54 <muthu> its for the users
Aug 24 17:24:02 <trigatch4> right but i couldn't implement it
Aug 24 17:24:03 <muthu> and android developers would find it useful
Aug 24 17:24:09 <muthu> what?
Aug 24 17:24:22 <trigatch4> i have a developers forum...
Aug 24 17:24:27 <muthu> creating a subforum is that hard?
Aug 24 17:24:30 <trigatch4> i'm confused as to what you're suggesting
Aug 24 17:24:40 <muthu> Android Apps
Aug 24 17:24:41 <trigatch4> oh so just make a subforum called "code snippets"
Aug 24 17:24:42 <muthu> Android Games
Aug 24 17:24:48 <muthu> Android Themes
Aug 24 17:24:50 <muthu> the same way..
Aug 24 17:24:54 <muthu> another sub forum called
Aug 24 17:24:59 <muthu> Android Code Snippets
Aug 24 17:25:13 <anno^da> Android Open Source Apps :D
Aug 24 17:25:21 <trigatch4> so maybe i should make "Android Developers" a category instead of a forum
Aug 24 17:25:23 <trigatch4> and have
Aug 24 17:25:32 <trigatch4> Code Snippets be a forum in that category
Aug 24 17:25:56 <muthu> yes
Aug 24 17:26:12 <muthu> and i know that's going to be very active
Aug 24 17:26:20 <muthu> since we are dealing with bits of code all the time
Aug 24 17:26:31 <muthu> and would be nice to put it somewhere for future reference
Aug 24 17:26:48 <muthu> the google android developers forum suffers from this
Aug 24 17:26:58 <muthu> its  a mix of everything, and hard to find working code bits
Aug 24 17:27:48 <trigatch4> okay...
Aug 24 17:27:50 <trigatch4> reload
Aug 24 17:28:03 <trigatch4> i made Android Developer's a category with Code Snippets as a forum
Aug 24 17:28:10 <trigatch4> I'm going to make Developers Lounge...
Aug 24 17:28:11 <muthu> nice
Aug 24 17:28:12 <trigatch4> what else?
Aug 24 17:29:13 <trigatch4> okay so there is a dev lounge, code snippets
Aug 24 17:29:24 <trigatch4> of course the whole thing is useless unless it has content and members
Aug 24 17:29:30 <muthu> yeah
Aug 24 17:29:32 <trigatch4> i would gladly do the work
Aug 24 17:29:34 <trigatch4> and put in snippets
Aug 24 17:29:39 <trigatch4> but since i'm not a coder
Aug 24 17:29:41 <trigatch4> i can't really do that
Aug 24 17:29:43 <trigatch4> ;)
Aug 24 17:29:48 <anno^da> :)
Aug 24 17:29:54 <anno^da> I will add some snippets
Aug 24 17:29:55 <muthu> you can just copy and paste some stuff which is already there in android developers
Aug 24 17:29:56 <trigatch4> unless there is somewhere I can dig around for it and compile all the info
Aug 24 17:30:23 <trigatch4> any other categories/subforums that you could see being useful/logical in the developer area?
Aug 24 17:31:04 <muthu> Unit testing
Aug 24 17:31:14 <muthu> Unit Testing / Instrumentation
Aug 24 17:31:22 <muthu> add that as a subforum under developers
Aug 24 17:31:34 <trigatch4> as one thing?
Aug 24 17:31:41 <muthu> yeah, both means same
Aug 24 17:31:49 <trigatch4> Unit Testing / Instrumentation ?
Aug 24 17:31:54 <trigatch4> k
Aug 24 17:31:57 <muthu> it was the hot topic today
Aug 24 17:32:07 <muthu> yup, and more developers are going to begin testing
Aug 24 17:32:59 <trigatch4> added as requested
Aug 24 17:33:00 <trigatch4> ;)
Aug 24 17:33:07 <trigatch4> anything else?
Aug 24 17:33:13 <trigatch4> android arguments
Aug 24 17:33:15 <trigatch4> hehe jk
Aug 24 17:33:28 <muthu> hehe
Aug 24 17:33:29 <trigatch4> SDK updates and important announcements?
Aug 24 17:33:40 <trigatch4> or would that just be sticky stuff in the Dev Lounge
Aug 24 17:34:22 <muthu> Android Rumors!
Aug 24 17:35:01 <trigatch4> I have Android News & Talk in the main Android Forum
Aug 24 17:35:07 <trigatch4> maybe just change "talk" to rumors
Aug 24 17:35:20 <trigatch4> i thought about that before... it does sound better
Aug 24 17:36:08 <muthu> Android Appstore
Aug 24 17:37:42 <trigatch4> ?
Aug 24 17:37:48 <trigatch4> Android Apps is a forum
Aug 24 17:37:52 <trigatch4> what would be the difference
Aug 24 17:39:01 <muthu> yeah may be apps would do
Aug 24 17:40:37 <trigatch4> i'm worried about "apps"
Aug 24 17:40:44 <trigatch4> i feel like that might end up having to be its own category
Aug 24 17:40:49 <trigatch4> but at some point you just have too  many categories
Aug 24 17:41:29 <trigatch4> so as far as developers category goes... is that good? or should there be more?
Aug 24 17:41:56 <muthu> Android UI
Aug 24 17:43:00 <trigatch4> Android UI as a forum for developer's
Aug 24 17:43:02 <trigatch4> ?
Aug 24 17:43:05 <muthu> yes
Aug 24 17:43:11 <muthu> to talk about ui stuff like views/layouts
Aug 24 17:43:17 <trigatch4> k
Aug 24 17:44:43 <muthu> Android Service
Aug 24 17:44:49 <trigatch4> whats android service?
Aug 24 17:45:07 <muthu> under developers
Aug 24 17:45:10 <SanMehat> morning
Aug 24 17:45:16 <muthu> service is a topic by itself
Aug 24 17:45:36 <trigatch4> service meaning???
Aug 24 17:46:55 <muthu> http://code.google.com/android/reference/android/app/Service.html
Aug 24 17:47:03 <anno^da> A service is one part of an Android application
Aug 24 17:47:21 <anno^da> something that is running in the background doing some work.
Aug 24 17:47:37 <anno^da> For example playing music while the user uses the phone to browse the web or sth like that.
Aug 24 17:47:58 <trigatch4> so that needs its own subforum?
Aug 24 17:48:03 <muthu> yes
Aug 24 17:48:05 <trigatch4> Android Service or Android Services?
Aug 24 17:48:15 <muthu> Android Service
Aug 24 17:49:02 <trigatch4> added
Aug 24 17:50:04 <muthu> Content Providers / SQLite
Aug 24 17:50:08 <muthu> under developers
Aug 24 17:50:52 <trigatch4> is just "content providers" okay... to keep it more generic/flexible?
Aug 24 17:50:58 <muthu> ok
Aug 24 17:51:27 <muthu> it must be database related
Aug 24 17:51:41 <trigatch4> added
Aug 24 17:52:14 <muthu> looks good
Aug 24 17:52:19 <muthu> ui to talk about views/layout
Aug 24 17:52:29 <muthu> service for ipc
Aug 24 17:52:30 <trigatch4> yeah
Aug 24 17:52:34 <muthu> contentproviders for database
Aug 24 17:52:35 <muthu> cool
Aug 24 17:52:48 <trigatch4> okay... how about the other areas... from a consumer perspective
Aug 24 17:53:12 <trigatch4> Android Troubleshooting seems kind of redundant... becausze if you have problem its going to be WITH an app, WITH a phone, WITH a theme, etc... right?
Aug 24 17:53:18 <trigatch4> thinking i should just delete that
Aug 24 17:53:49 <muthu> yup
Aug 24 17:55:04 <trigatch4> thinking i should change "Its All Good" to General Discussion
Aug 24 17:55:08 <trigatch4> or something more logical
Aug 24 17:55:12 <anno^da> Does someone know how to get from a byte[] to a Bitmap  ?
Aug 24 17:55:44 <muthu> anno^da: BitMapFactory has some methods
Aug 24 17:55:50 <muthu> trigatch4: yeah make it more specific
Aug 24 17:57:47 <anno^da> great thx muthu
Aug 24 17:57:57 <muthu> np
Aug 24 17:58:50 <trigatch4> i'm going to change Android News & Rumors to General Android Discussion and "Its All Good" to Off-Topic
Aug 24 17:58:54 <trigatch4> good or no good?
Aug 24 17:59:06 <chomchom> Argh, I'm without internets! I got so lonely I've resorted to an iPhone irc client.
Aug 24 17:59:43 <chomchom> It's not too fast typing on this keyboard.
Aug 24 17:59:54 <trigatch4> htc dream FTW
Aug 24 18:00:02 <trigatch4> HA... shitty iphone
Aug 24 18:00:51 <muthu> Android Phones and Carriers
Aug 24 18:00:54 <muthu> and add TMobile
Aug 24 18:02:06 <anno^da> lol the bitmap factory needs some offset value
Aug 24 18:02:19 <anno^da> but I dont get an offset value by the callback method :/
Aug 24 18:02:36 <trigatch4> muthu: if i did phones and carriers i'm going to soon have a billion forums and its going to be a huge pain in the butt for anyone to navigate the homepage
Aug 24 18:02:51 <trigatch4> android phones has a carrier/manufacturer inherent for the most part
Aug 24 18:03:03 <trigatch4> look at the top... there is "android phones" and the HTC Dream is listed...
Aug 24 18:03:29 <jasta> *yawn*
Aug 24 18:03:31 <trigatch4> maybe I can make Android Carriers a sub forum in the main Android Area?
Aug 24 18:03:42 <trigatch4> hey jasta, whats up buddy
Aug 24 18:04:25 <jasta> not much
Aug 24 18:04:34 <jasta> got instrumentation/unit testing working in my project
Aug 24 18:04:36 <jasta> pretty damn sweet actually
Aug 24 18:04:47 <muthu> trigatch4: then list Tmobile
Aug 24 18:05:07 <jasta> i can now test my services using an Android Context and stuff without cluttering my production apks
Aug 24 18:06:34 <jasta> and there's an android test runner you can invoke through adb shell am
Aug 24 18:07:28 <muthu> jasta: nice
Aug 24 18:09:22 <jasta> muthu: i even figured out how to make it build in a separate apk (not very tricky, as romain hinted)
Aug 24 18:09:46 <jasta> but i really want to hack up the masa plugin to support 0.9r1 so i can have a better build environment for the tests ;)
Aug 24 18:09:59 <muthu> masa should be pretty straight forward to hack
Aug 24 18:10:29 <jasta> yeah, i'm sure it is.  it's basically just translating the default build.xml into Java.
Aug 24 18:10:37 <muthu> probably all we need is to upload the latest jars to the repos
Aug 24 18:10:40 <jasta> so i'd just need to figure out how the build.xml has changed, if at all, and translate those changes back in
Aug 24 18:11:01 <muthu> right
Aug 24 18:11:10 <jasta> should be totally simple i've just been lazy :)
Aug 24 18:11:26 <jasta> but it would be much better than using ant for this and then having this crappy frankensteined build environment
Aug 24 18:12:46 <muthu> maven is cool
Aug 24 18:13:00 <jasta> totally, i really like it
Aug 24 18:13:14 <muthu> mvn test should run instrumentation
Aug 24 18:17:01 <trigatch4> muthu: take a look now... what do you think?
Aug 24 18:19:33 <muthu> let me check
Aug 24 18:21:00 <muthu> Android Apps is confusing
Aug 24 18:21:04 <muthu> is it the apps or the ideas?
Aug 24 18:21:17 <trigatch4> what do you mean?
Aug 24 18:21:22 <trigatch4> its for discussing applications
Aug 24 18:21:25 <trigatch4> that currently exist
Aug 24 18:21:34 <muthu> ok
Aug 24 18:21:41 <trigatch4> or questions like, "im looking for the best weather application"
Aug 24 18:21:44 <muthu> currently someone has listed ideas
Aug 24 18:22:31 <trigatch4> Android Tips & Tricks?
Aug 24 18:25:16 <muthu> yup
Aug 24 18:25:19 <muthu> that's a good one
Aug 24 18:27:16 <trigatch4> how about multimedia... video, audio, ringtones, television, etc... how would you handle that
Aug 24 18:27:31 <muthu> Android Media
Aug 24 18:28:06 <muthu> GPS, Maps
Aug 24 18:28:13 <muthu> Bluetooth, Wifi
Aug 24 18:30:08 <trigatch4> those will all be thread/post icons
Aug 24 18:30:36 <trigatch4> does that sound okay?
Aug 24 18:31:01 <muthu> having more subforums under developers
Aug 24 18:31:03 <muthu> is a good idea
Aug 24 18:31:11 <muthu> so we can quickly get into topics
Aug 24 18:32:36 <trigatch4> like it is now? or even more?
Aug 24 18:33:31 <muthu> tips and tricks should be in developers
Aug 24 18:33:54 <trigatch4> i guess it should be in both
Aug 24 18:33:56 <trigatch4> ;)
Aug 24 18:33:57 <muthu> there are 2 things here
Aug 24 18:34:00 <muthu> right
Aug 24 18:34:03 <muthu> 1. end users
Aug 24 18:34:07 <muthu> 2. developers
Aug 24 18:35:12 <trigatch4> right
Aug 24 18:35:18 <trigatch4> okay added
Aug 24 18:37:33 <trigatch4> sooooooo
Aug 24 18:37:50 <trigatch4> i think its set for now in terms of organization and categories/forums...
Aug 24 18:37:56 <trigatch4> how can i make the developer area USEFUL now
Aug 24 18:38:10 <trigatch4> all the right forums with 0 content isn't too helpful
Aug 24 18:38:12 <trigatch4> ;)
Aug 24 18:38:24 <trigatch4> and also if nobody is answering your questions
Aug 24 18:38:26 <trigatch4> hehe
Aug 24 18:38:47 <trigatch4> maybe i should add an IRC chat client where people can access this channel
Aug 24 18:38:47 <muthu> you can reorganize based on activity
Aug 24 18:46:15 <trigatch4> alright muthu... now just need suggestions on building it up as a resource developers will WANT to use.. because right now its just empty developer area
Aug 24 18:47:15 <muthu> need to somehow pull developers there
Aug 24 18:47:23 <muthu> so you need to plug your stuff here ;)
Aug 24 18:47:26 <trigatch4> jasta, would love your expert opinion as well
Aug 24 18:48:36 <Dougie187> i think hes gone.
Aug 24 18:49:10 <trigatch4> dangit
Aug 24 18:49:40 <trigatch4> unfortunately for you,dougie187, you've just volunteered to give your opinion
Aug 24 18:49:45 <trigatch4> http://androidforums.com
Aug 24 18:50:00 <trigatch4> muthu just helped me edit/organize all the categories/forums
Aug 24 18:50:13 <trigatch4> to make it more useful and logical for end users and developers alike
Aug 24 18:50:19 <trigatch4> whatchya think?
Aug 24 18:51:24 <Dougie187> what are you trying to organize?
Aug 24 18:51:30 <Dougie187> just the main forum topics?
Aug 24 18:51:42 <trigatch4> everything...
Aug 24 18:52:10 <trigatch4> there are no limits to what you can suggest/criticize
Aug 24 18:52:34 <Dougie187> heh
Aug 24 18:52:50 <Dougie187> i like how you have the descriptions under the forum names.
Aug 24 18:52:52 <trigatch4> i also realize that nobody will touch the developer section if its just an empty, abandoned area... so if you have any ideas for research/content i can add upfront i'm willing to do the work'
Aug 24 18:52:56 <Dougie187> i think you should add more of those.
Aug 24 18:53:01 <trigatch4> okay..
Aug 24 18:53:02 <trigatch4> i'll do that now
Aug 24 18:53:19 <trigatch4> while i am.. keep the constructive criticism/suggestions coming
Aug 24 18:53:39 <Dougie187> ill try to.
Aug 24 18:54:50 <Dougie187> i sort of think off-topic should go in your "horses mouth" category.
Aug 24 18:55:46 <Dougie187> I also think you should collapse the Phones and carriers into one group. and just have one forum for carriers and one for phones. then threads for the seperate things. because thats going to get huge if you want to have a forum for every phone or every carrier.
Aug 24 18:57:26 <Pakalaka> anyone know why i should get this error with 0.9 beta? ERROR: Unknown command 'compile'
Aug 24 19:02:22 <trigatch4> dougie187... i think having a separate forum for each phone is kind of a must
Aug 24 19:02:29 <trigatch4> most questions tend to be phone oriented
Aug 24 19:02:35 <trigatch4> well
Aug 24 19:02:39 <trigatch4> with an android phone they shouldn't be
Aug 24 19:02:40 <Dougie187> i think that its going to get huge fast.
Aug 24 19:02:42 <trigatch4> but they will be
Aug 24 19:02:46 <Dougie187> personally.
Aug 24 19:02:48 <trigatch4> yeah i hear that
Aug 24 19:02:53 <Dougie187> i just think its going to be overkill.
Aug 24 19:03:01 <trigatch4> because in the first 3 months of 2009 there should be like 10 phones or so at least
Aug 24 19:03:06 <Dougie187> yeah
Aug 24 19:03:13 <trigatch4> hmmm
Aug 24 19:03:24 <Dougie187> so its going to grow fast. and then your main site is going to be complicated and messy to go through.
Aug 24 19:03:32 <trigatch4> yeah
Aug 24 19:04:00 <trigatch4> i actually have a pretty good idea
Aug 24 19:04:03 <Dougie187> ok
Aug 24 19:04:07 <Dougie187> anyways i have to go for now.
Aug 24 19:04:08 <trigatch4> i could have a sidebar and just list all the phones/carriers
Aug 24 19:04:12 <Dougie187> but good luck
Aug 24 19:04:14 <trigatch4> instead of listing them as forums
Aug 24 19:04:15 <Dougie187> sure that would work too.
Aug 24 19:04:16 <trigatch4> thanks man
Aug 24 19:04:17 <trigatch4> take care
Aug 24 19:04:32 <Dougie187> or you could just make a phones can carriers main forum. and then sub forums for each one.
Aug 24 19:04:40 <Dougie187> phones and carriers*
Aug 24 19:05:18 <Dougie187> but im out. see ya
Aug 24 19:06:11 <michaelnovakjr__> howdy
Aug 24 19:07:16 <trigatch4> whattup michaelnovakjr__
Aug 24 19:07:26 <trigatch4> picking up where dougie187 just left off hahaha
Aug 24 19:08:36 <michaelnovakjr__> :) not much
Aug 24 19:10:16 <michaelnovakjr__> so what's new in here?
Aug 24 19:10:41 <michaelnovakjr__> eh, stupid system reboot... be back
Aug 24 19:12:23 <trigatch4> k
Aug 24 19:45:08 <cathya> hi
Aug 24 19:45:08 <cathya> whoever is awake
Aug 24 19:51:12 <cathyal> hi anyone for a few mins to explain if google's android is jsut the OS
Aug 24 19:51:22 <cathyal> or they're coming up with hardware as well
Aug 24 20:30:30 <trigatch4> whats up folks
Aug 24 20:30:38 <trigatch4> anyone around or just idlers
Aug 24 20:31:01 <Ark1> idler
Aug 24 20:31:16 <_Marvin_> yo
Aug 24 20:31:21 <chomchom> +1 Idler
Aug 24 20:31:42 <Miek> +1 :p
Aug 24 20:33:48 <_Marvin_> what's up? well ... watching a movie before a night of sleep and a new week at work....
Aug 24 20:40:11 <_Marvin_> feel a bit washed out :)
Aug 24 20:49:11 <trigatch4> word
Aug 24 20:49:39 <trigatch4> any of you mind taking a peek at my android forums? trying to get them going and organize them properly and get geared up here
Aug 24 20:49:49 <trigatch4> appreciate input, opinions, suggestions, participation, etc... ;)
Aug 24 20:58:18 <trigatch4> now everyone is gone.. :(
Aug 24 20:58:30 <trigatch4> or are they hiding
Aug 24 21:15:22 <trigatch4> ark1, _marvin_, chomchom, miek - http://androidforums.com - thoughts/feedback?
Aug 24 22:21:32 <Acsia> trigatch4 can you get openid?
Aug 24 22:21:41 <Acsia> looks very much as anddev
Aug 24 22:21:46 <trigatch4> can i get what?
Aug 24 22:21:50 <trigatch4> openid for login
Aug 24 22:21:52 <Acsia> openid login?
Aug 24 22:21:55 <Acsia> yes
Aug 24 22:21:55 <trigatch4> on androidforums?
Aug 24 22:21:59 <Acsia> yes
Aug 24 22:22:01 <trigatch4> hmmm
Aug 24 22:22:02 <trigatch4> not sure
Aug 24 22:22:07 <Acsia> I am just very lazy tbh
Aug 24 22:22:13 <trigatch4> i can try and see
Aug 24 22:22:15 <trigatch4> hahaha
Aug 24 22:22:17 <trigatch4> thats really lazy
Aug 24 22:22:19 <trigatch4> ;)
Aug 24 22:22:21 <Acsia> what type of forum are you using?
Aug 24 22:22:30 <Acsia> phpbb?
Aug 24 22:36:02 <trigatch4> vbulletin
Aug 24 22:40:40 <trigatch4> Acsia.. can't do openid
Aug 24 22:41:06 <trigatch4> you're right... anddev is very similar... just looking at that now for the first time in awhile
Aug 24 23:18:16 <Dougie187> good evening everyone.
Aug 24 23:19:20 <umdk1d3> ohhai  ^.^
Aug 24 23:21:13 <trigatch4> dougie187
Aug 24 23:21:16 <trigatch4> you're back
Aug 24 23:21:21 <trigatch4> i have been so sad here without you
Aug 24 23:24:29 <gambler> we have all missed you
Aug 24 23:25:49 <Acsia> yesterday I decided that hercules in new york is the best movie of all time
Aug 24 23:28:51 <Dougie187> lol
Aug 24 23:29:01 <Dougie187> did you get a lot done trigatch4?
Aug 24 23:53:58 <trigatch4> what do you mean by "a lot"
Aug 24 23:54:20 <trigatch4> dougie187 - look for yourself
Aug 24 23:54:36 <trigatch4> i need ideas for building it as a "resource" so you all will WANT to use it
Aug 24 23:54:51 <trigatch4> main problem is that nothing attracts a crowd like a crowd
Aug 24 23:55:00 <trigatch4> and i don't yet have a crowd
Aug 25 00:41:52 * jasta yawns
Aug 25 00:42:02 <jasta> just got back from hiking to the ice caves :)
Aug 25 00:42:09 <jasta> bbl
Aug 25 00:57:15 <umdk1d4> yay http://digg.com/gadgets/Google_Android_browser_to_have_Gears_syncing_geolocation
Aug 25 01:17:48 <trigatch4> umdk1d4_ yay what
Aug 25 01:46:37 <ttuttle> greetings
Aug 25 01:52:15 <trigatch4> whattup ttuttle
Aug 25 01:55:14 <ttuttle> not much
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Mon Aug 25 02:59:57 2008