**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Aug 29 02:59:58 2008
Aug 29 02:59:58 <f00f-> yeah 90% of my effort will be on the backend now
Aug 29 03:03:12 <dueynz> congrats muthu !
Aug 29 03:03:20 <muthu> dueynz: thanks man
Aug 29 03:03:31 <dmoffett> f00f:  Don't be discouraged, at your age most guys are clueless.  You are well on your way.
Aug 29 03:04:08 <dueynz> muthu: so i hear you are having a big party and flying everyone in the chan to india for free?
Aug 29 03:04:19 * muthu hides
Aug 29 03:04:24 <dueynz> :P
Aug 29 03:04:25 <dmoffett> Congratulations Muthu!
Aug 29 03:04:32 <muthu> dmoffett: thanks
Aug 29 03:04:52 <muthu> its been good so far
Aug 29 03:04:56 <dueynz> good to see not many companies in the top 20
Aug 29 03:05:02 <dmoffett> I do think you owe someone a laptop though.
Aug 29 03:05:09 <muthu> hehe
Aug 29 03:05:16 <dmoffett> Doug maybe?
Aug 29 03:05:18 <muthu> actually he owns me a laptop :P
Aug 29 03:05:26 <dmoffett> even better.
Aug 29 03:05:43 <dueynz> he needs to pay the bribes first
Aug 29 03:05:45 <dueynz> :P
Aug 29 03:05:50 <muthu> haha
Aug 29 03:05:59 <dueynz> you selling your app or giving it away?
Aug 29 03:06:10 <muthu> dueynz: ask my boss :)
Aug 29 03:06:24 <muthu> i'm happy to be part of it
Aug 29 03:06:36 <dueynz> you have a boss ?
Aug 29 03:06:57 <dmoffett> Give the app away with three recipes and then charge for the good ones.  :-)
Aug 29 03:06:58 <muthu> mary ann - the brainchild behind CC
Aug 29 03:07:01 <dueynz> ah
Aug 29 03:07:13 <dueynz> you could just $4.99 it
Aug 29 03:07:17 <muthu> dmoffett: it has a great business model
Aug 29 03:07:31 <muthu> yeah, tons of potential
Aug 29 03:07:51 <f00f-> dmoffett: yeah i'm not too discouraged :)  just wanting to launch this but need to think about paying for servers & map data now :P
Aug 29 03:08:21 <dueynz> f00f-: what one is yours?
Aug 29 03:08:23 <muthu> f00f-: isn't the google maps free?
Aug 29 03:08:32 <f00f-> muthu: it is full of restrictions
Aug 29 03:08:40 <muthu> oh ok
Aug 29 03:08:45 <f00f-> which is why we couldn't use it for PedNav
Aug 29 03:08:56 <gambler> what are the alternatives
Aug 29 03:09:03 <f00f-> basically keeps competitors (of google maps) at bay
Aug 29 03:09:11 <f00f-> aggregators like mapquest
Aug 29 03:09:20 <f00f-> or if you're rich just outright buy the data from navteq and/or tele atlas
Aug 29 03:09:36 <dueynz> there is free data around
Aug 29 03:09:42 <dueynz> thats quite extensive
Aug 29 03:09:44 <f00f-> openstreetmap isn't quite there yet, but looking at it :)
Aug 29 03:09:51 <dueynz> hmm
Aug 29 03:09:54 <dueynz> might be another
Aug 29 03:10:42 <f00f-> openstreetmap is extensive though
Aug 29 03:10:43 <f00f-> 90G     planet-080806.osm
Aug 29 03:11:08 <f00f-> parsing that 90 GB XML file will be fun :P
Aug 29 03:11:11 <dmoffett> f00f: Time for consolidation may help with bills etc.  Find like minded projects and maybe you can work something out.  Even if it just means sharing systems until you get enough growth to pay the bills.
Aug 29 03:11:51 <f00f-> dmoffett: yeah, maybe going to try the investment route, not sure yet
Aug 29 03:11:59 <f00f-> i think biggest cost will be licensing map data
Aug 29 03:12:09 <f00f-> hardware is relatively cheap, actually
Aug 29 03:12:39 <muthu> f00f-: content is the problem
Aug 29 03:12:39 <dmoffett> I have a friend who did that for years and might be able to help if you would like me to send him your email.
Aug 29 03:14:07 <f00f-> dmoffett: we're gonna iron some things out in the coming weeks, but i'll let you know if i need some connections but thanks for the offer :)
Aug 29 03:14:19 <dmoffett> Tiger data is free but has challenges.
Aug 29 03:14:35 <f00f-> yeah and quite incomplete
Aug 29 03:14:47 <dmoffett> yep
Aug 29 03:14:55 <f00f-> i think OpenStreetMap includes TIGER data though
Aug 29 03:15:06 <f00f-> but OSM is questionable, too
Aug 29 03:15:10 <f00f-> since it's wiki-based
Aug 29 03:15:13 <f00f-> anyone can edit
Aug 29 03:15:20 <f00f-> so any users could potentially be sued
Aug 29 03:15:29 <f00f-> if someone mistakenly uploads copyrighted data, etc.
Aug 29 03:15:32 <dmoffett> I have not heard of OpenStreetMap.
Aug 29 03:16:28 <dmoffett> I think my friend was paying like 300k a year for map data plus other things.
Aug 29 03:16:39 <dmoffett> like demographics.
Aug 29 03:16:41 <muthu> wow
Aug 29 03:17:00 <muthu> thought google maps had a lot of functionality
Aug 29 03:17:13 <muthu> is that not enough, to begin with?
Aug 29 03:18:07 <f00f-> muthu the key is to get google to license your their data :)
Aug 29 03:18:08 <dmoffett> Google probably is restricted from what they can distribute.  Just like stock quotes.  The owners of that data don't want to lose their cash cow.
Aug 29 03:18:15 <f00f-> yeah
Aug 29 03:18:31 <f00f-> dmoffett: was that worldwide?
Aug 29 03:18:38 <f00f-> i'm trying to find the magnitude of costs :)
Aug 29 03:18:52 <dmoffett> I think that just US data.
Aug 29 03:19:21 <dmoffett> The data was not just streets though.   There were additional layers in the data.
Aug 29 03:19:32 <f00f-> okay so that might be a bit pricier
Aug 29 03:19:59 <dmoffett> Yeah you would have to talk to him and the prices have probably changed.
Aug 29 03:20:27 <f00f-> right
Aug 29 03:20:33 <f00f-> what i really should do is load up the OSM data ste
Aug 29 03:20:36 <f00f-> and see if it's useful
Aug 29 03:22:02 <dmoffett> His company basically ran a service to place businesses like Burger King and they used the data to predict ideal locations based demographics, traffic .....
Aug 29 03:22:33 <dmoffett> basically don
Aug 29 03:23:27 <dmoffett> basically don't place Macy's in some two stop light town.
Aug 29 03:24:01 <f00f-> ah interesting
Aug 29 03:24:10 <f00f-> i can see why demographics are useful there :D
Aug 29 03:48:33 <gjs> congrats to muthu, tom ( & others ) for CC - well done
Aug 29 03:48:45 <muthu> gjs: thanks
Aug 29 03:48:51 <muthu> great team effort for us
Aug 29 03:53:23 <plusminus_> anyone knows the replacement for MapView's setOnLongPressListener ?
Aug 29 03:53:36 <plusminus_> OnLongClick does not provide the screen-coords :(
Aug 29 04:48:49 <plusminus_> aww no, why is MapView.onDraw() final o_O
Aug 29 04:49:59 <dmoffett> plusminus:  Can you get the onTap, or equivalent for .9,  event grab the coords and then save them for OnLongClick?  Sorry I have not checked out .9 map api changes.
Aug 29 04:50:41 <dmoffett> Although you might not get the onTap?
Aug 29 04:51:07 <plusminus_> hmhm.. thats not the proper way I thin
Aug 29 04:51:09 <plusminus_> k
Aug 29 04:51:18 <dmoffett> Are you using Overlays?
Aug 29 04:51:43 <plusminus_> yes, and it should work.
Aug 29 04:52:15 <plusminus_> The bigger problem currently is that they turned MapView.onDraw(Canvas) into a final method................ *grrrr*
Aug 29 04:52:28 <plusminus_> I've had such a nice Rotateable MapView...
Aug 29 04:53:02 <dmoffett> maybe use the OnTouchEvent to capture the MotionEvent.
Aug 29 04:53:29 <dmoffett> that should give you the data you need.
Aug 29 05:01:29 <plusminus_> damn DataStateIntentReceiver is said to be NetworkConnectivityBroadcastReceiver/MobileDataStateBroadcastReceiver, but none exists (or I cannot find it neither with autocomplete nor within the Api-Docs)
Aug 29 05:14:52 <plusminus_> zhobbs: You work with TuneWiki, right ?
Aug 29 05:15:00 <plusminus_> damn, congrats !!!
Aug 29 05:51:18 <romainguy> yo
Aug 29 05:51:43 <jasta> hello
Aug 29 06:08:17 <jasta> romainguy__: do you know if a file stream opened from a FileDescriptor is safe across threads?
Aug 29 06:08:36 <jasta> i don't know very much about what java facilities are implicitly thread-safe.
Aug 29 06:08:51 <romainguy__> what do you mean by thread safe?
Aug 29 06:09:01 <Servercrash> hi everyone
Aug 29 06:09:09 <jasta> i mean can the handle opened in one thread be used by another?
Aug 29 06:09:21 <romainguy__> er yes
Aug 29 06:09:26 <romainguy__> but it has nothing to do with thread safety
Aug 29 06:09:40 <jasta> what do you mean?
Aug 29 06:09:58 <jasta> how can it not?
Aug 29 06:09:59 <Servercrash> trying to push in my leg into android based application development. I have been more of web developer and html designer, would it be an easy switch, hows the learning curve ?
Aug 29 06:10:02 <romainguy__> the question would make sense if you were accessing the stream from several threads
Aug 29 06:10:43 <jasta> romainguy__: well, i will likely need to close it from the thread that opened it, whilst the other thread is reading from it.
Aug 29 06:11:03 <romainguy__> why? you can close it from the thread that's reading it
Aug 29 06:11:19 <Servercrash> any suggestions ?
Aug 29 06:11:20 <jasta> i'm just wondering.
Aug 29 06:11:38 <jasta> Servercrash: yes, there will probably be a learning curve, as with anything new that you wish to learn.
Aug 29 06:12:14 <jasta> Servercrash: the http request/response model is much unlike the persistent application model.  so your biggest challenge will be in adopting this new paradigm.
Aug 29 06:13:00 <Servercrash> jasta, thanks for replying, i have experince of developing applications in Visual Basica and C/C++ too and had put my hands on JAVA too
Aug 29 06:13:27 <jasta> then in my opinion you should have a fine time working with Android.  just pay close attention to the documentation.
Aug 29 06:13:48 <Servercrash> I was trying to start from something like Android for dummies and then go deep in documentation
Aug 29 06:14:06 <jasta> there are also some helpful general android development tips found somewhere in the documentation index (i forget where).
Aug 29 06:14:21 <Servercrash> jasta, the "Hello World" application gave me some idea but i was not very clean about all that been said in the app
Aug 29 06:14:29 <jasta> some hints about writing efficient Dalvik code, and some common techniques to avoiding blocking the main thread.
Aug 29 06:14:56 <jasta> Servercrash: well feel free to ask, otherwise just dig into the ApiDemos.
Aug 29 06:15:08 <jasta> be patient, though, learning should not happen immediately.
Aug 29 06:15:24 <Servercrash> yes, i have planned for 3 months workout
Aug 29 06:15:36 <Servercrash> step by step...
Aug 29 06:16:31 <Servercrash> where can i see code of some simple applications developed on android platform
Aug 29 06:16:41 <ahaberlach> What kind of app are you writing?  Is it going to be more forms-based or a game-style thing?
Aug 29 06:16:45 <jasta> well, the ApiDemos is a good place to start.
Aug 29 06:16:46 <Servercrash> something more on the lines hello world
Aug 29 06:16:50 <jasta> which is bundled with the SDK.
Aug 29 06:16:55 <Servercrash> ok
Aug 29 06:17:26 <jasta> then once you graduate from there, you can actually check out android-random.googlecode.com which has quite a few fully functional programs ranging from simple examples to full utilities that have acutally been used on real phones
Aug 29 06:17:27 <ahaberlach> APIDemos is good if you want to see all the stuff you can do with layout, and the types of widgets.
Aug 29 06:17:48 <ahaberlach> Snake and LunarLandar show how to draw your own stuff and set up a basic screen refresh loop and game logic.
Aug 29 06:18:48 <Servercrash> ahaberlach, thanks will push myself in there
Aug 29 06:18:57 <Servercrash> I am downloading the Windows SDK
Aug 29 06:19:17 <ahaberlach> That's a good place to start.  :)
Aug 29 06:19:18 <Servercrash> was wondering any good IDE is also there for same
Aug 29 06:19:37 <Servercrash> Eclipse i guess...
Aug 29 06:19:54 <jasta> Eclipse is the only officially supported IDE, and if you are unfamiliar with Java I strongly advise that you use it.
Aug 29 06:19:56 <ahaberlach> If you're not using Eclipse, I'd recommend it.  There's step-by-step instructions on setting up the plug-in, which does a lot of templating for you as well.
Aug 29 06:20:54 <Servercrash> thankfully i have some experince with eclipse and JAVA, hopefully that will save my ass burning a bit :D
Aug 29 06:21:18 <Servercrash> also how do you test gps based application on emulators ?
Aug 29 06:21:39 <ahaberlach> Starting at http://code.google.com/android/intro/installing.html and getting into "Developing and Debugging" should step you through the basic dev cycle process.
Aug 29 06:21:46 <Servercrash> like if you want to find whats your current location, is that possible
Aug 29 06:21:55 <Servercrash> ahaberlach, yups read that :D
Aug 29 06:22:55 <ahaberlach> There's a mocked-up LocationProvider available.  I've not used it myself, but I believe that you can specify a track of GPS coordinates for it to "follow"
Aug 29 06:23:37 <ahaberlach> http://code.google.com/android/toolbox/apis/lbs.html
Aug 29 06:23:41 <ahaberlach> "Providing Mock Location Data"
Aug 29 06:24:21 <Servercrash> ahaberlach, hmm thanks
Aug 29 06:27:23 <Servercrash> I am very sure within 1 year there will be android RAD
Aug 29 06:40:07 <Servercrash> Also wanted to if there is any device where on which i can load android and test apps ?
Aug 29 06:40:26 <jasta> yes, but none officially supported and the experience is not what you might be expecting
Aug 29 06:40:35 <jasta> with handsets coming out so soon, don't bother
Aug 29 06:41:32 <Servercrash> android apis remind me Visual C++ days :p
Aug 29 06:46:15 <jasta> they shouldn't.
Aug 29 06:46:25 <gambler> jasta, I found this the other day when I relearning concurrency: http://java.sun.com/javase/6/docs/technotes/guides/concurrency/index.html
Aug 29 06:47:08 <jasta> i read through almost all of this, and an o'reilly book on concurrency in java, actually.
Aug 29 06:48:26 <jasta> but not covered here, there are some classes in Java which are implicitly thread safe and others which are not.  for isntance, the Socket class seems thread-safe only on certain methods, generally only expected to be so on the close() call.  but it doesn't really tell you this.
Aug 29 06:48:47 <jasta> you just have to know seemingly based on assumptions of both good design and the underlying platform mechanics
Aug 29 06:48:58 <romainguy__> a good rule of thumb is that if the class doesn't explicitly says it's thread safe, then it's not
Aug 29 06:49:44 <jasta> yeah that seems to be the best strategy i've come up with so far as well.
Aug 29 06:50:22 <jasta> to my Socket example, the close() call mentions that threads blocking on the socket will get an exception, which suggests that you could have a design where another thread might be waiting
Aug 29 06:50:38 <jasta> none of the other calls say anything about threads, so you have to assume that only the close call is thread-safe.
Aug 29 06:52:19 <jasta> most of the classes by design are re-entrant though, but don't say anything about that.  that's just kind of a side-effect of software design in Java.
Aug 29 07:29:50 <anno^da> someone knowing sth about this
Aug 29 07:29:51 <anno^da> http://www.the01phone.com/
Aug 29 07:30:44 <swetland> looks like a 3d render to me
Aug 29 07:31:22 <anno^da> yeah just found that in the news reader
Aug 29 07:31:48 <anno^da> could be some marketing stuff for this site: http://www.t3.com/news/the-01-phone-discovered-is-this-our-dream-phone-with-32gb-of-storage?=36478
Aug 29 07:32:23 <swetland> not sure how incredibly useful the projected keyboard is. seems like a sorta esoteric feature to take the hit of the additional complexity (and thickness) of a slide mechanism for
Aug 29 07:32:42 * romainguy__ is about to release an open source android app :)
Aug 29 07:32:49 <swetland> whoo!
Aug 29 07:33:18 <swetland> I have released an open source android kernel
Aug 29 07:33:39 <romainguy__> grmbl
Aug 29 07:33:48 <romainguy__> well soon I will have released an open source android framework :p
Aug 29 07:34:46 <swetland> the laser keyboard feels like the worst of both worlds -- lacks the tactile feedback of a real keyboard, requires a flat surface (can't use it while just holding the device).  not sure how this is a blackberry killer, given how people tend to use their blackberries, etc
Aug 29 07:44:25 <cutmasta> mornin
Aug 29 07:57:10 <anno^da> swetland: Yeah I aggree with you in that point.
Aug 29 08:38:49 * davidw is curious to see what romainguy releases
Aug 29 08:41:19 <romainguy__> davidw: nothing crazy, but it looks good, shows some cool features of the platform and comes with a really nice API to make threading easier in UIs
Aug 29 08:45:24 <anno^da> screenshots :-)
Aug 29 08:45:34 <romainguy__> ok 1 sec
Aug 29 08:45:40 <anno^da> ah great :-)
Aug 29 08:46:50 <romainguy__> so
Aug 29 08:47:17 <swetland> so!
Aug 29 08:47:17 <romainguy__> http://progx.org/users/Gfx/login.png < Logging onto Flickr
Aug 29 08:47:27 <romainguy__> http://progx.org/users/Gfx/loginerror.png < login error
Aug 29 08:47:41 <romainguy__> http://progx.org/users/Gfx/stream.png < showing the user's photos
Aug 29 08:47:50 <romainguy__> http://progx.org/users/Gfx/viewphoto.png < viewing one photo
Aug 29 08:47:53 <romainguy__> and
Aug 29 08:47:59 <anno^da> that looks quite nice :-)
Aug 29 08:48:09 <romainguy__> http://progx.org/users/Gfx/shortcuts.png < the application and a shortcut to my Flickr photos on Home
Aug 29 08:48:26 <romainguy__> the icon is my Flickr's buddy icon
Aug 29 08:48:34 <anno^da> I've done a flickr integration as well but not that nice :)
Aug 29 08:48:44 <romainguy__> it's even better with the animations :p
Aug 29 08:49:09 <anno^da> video *cough*
Aug 29 08:49:09 <EQU> romainguy__ this hints are build-in ?
Aug 29 08:49:10 <romainguy__> anyway, I have one last class to comment and I'll put the source code online
Aug 29 08:49:14 <romainguy__> EQU: yes
Aug 29 08:49:23 <anno^da> oh great where will it be online ?
Aug 29 08:49:23 <romainguy__> just use TextView.setError()
Aug 29 08:49:31 <romainguy__> anno^da: http://code.google.com/p/apps-for-android
Aug 29 08:49:32 <EQU> romainguy: ok :)
Aug 29 08:49:55 <anno^da> ah ok then I just have to update the svn later on
Aug 29 08:49:57 <Miek> anno^da: about that 01 phone, t3.com is part of future publishing... who host the01phone.com :p
Aug 29 08:50:11 <EQU> romainguy__: how hide hint ?
Aug 29 08:50:26 <romainguy__> the user hides it by moving the cursor/typing something
Aug 29 08:50:28 <anno^da> Miek: yeah I read it. So it is just marketing :)
Aug 29 08:50:31 <romainguy__> you can also call setError(null)
Aug 29 08:52:01 <EQU> roger that
Aug 29 08:53:23 <anno^da> EQU: let him comment the code :D
Aug 29 08:53:55 <romainguy__> yeah
Aug 29 08:54:01 <romainguy__> the last class, but the most useful one
Aug 29 08:54:04 <romainguy__> and the hardest one to comment
Aug 29 08:54:17 <anno^da> oh :)
Aug 29 08:54:25 <anno^da> ok give us a call when it's online
Aug 29 09:05:25 <cutmasta> just saw the winners
Aug 29 09:05:28 <cutmasta> of ADC
Aug 29 09:05:34 <cutmasta> congrats to all you guys
Aug 29 09:06:26 <muthu1> cutmasta: thank
Aug 29 09:06:27 <muthu1> s
Aug 29 09:06:38 <cutmasta> yes, also to you muthu1
Aug 29 09:06:42 <cutmasta> just saw your cooking ap
Aug 29 09:06:43 <cutmasta> app
Aug 29 09:06:52 <cutmasta> now you have enough money to cook :)
Aug 29 09:06:53 <muthu1> the top 20 looks great
Aug 29 09:06:58 <cutmasta> yeah
Aug 29 09:07:01 <cutmasta> really cool apps
Aug 29 09:07:31 <muthu1> adc2 is going to be bigger and better :)
Aug 29 09:08:43 <swetland> I'm hoping some of the people who didn't make it through to the final 50 or whatever don't give up and are still building fun stuff.  There were a lot of submissions and I bet there's some cool stuff outside of the top 50 too
Aug 29 09:09:08 <muthu1> now that the market is open
Aug 29 09:09:20 <muthu1> am sure cool apps are getting built
Aug 29 09:09:35 <swetland> yeah, announcing that should give people a better idea about options for apps dev besides "winning the adc" ^^
Aug 29 09:09:53 <muthu1> yup, its not about adc anymore
Aug 29 09:10:13 <muthu1> this is so much of power to the developers
Aug 29 09:10:23 <muthu1> wow, google is doing something amazing here
Aug 29 09:10:26 <swetland> it's going to be good
Aug 29 09:10:39 <muthu1> freedom!
Aug 29 09:10:43 <muthu1> like never before
Aug 29 09:10:54 <swetland> having worked on hiptop, and having been so very disappointed by the hiptop app model being yet another walled garden thing
Aug 29 09:11:01 <swetland> it's really nice to see this working out the way it is
Aug 29 09:11:08 <muthu1> yup
Aug 29 09:11:23 <muthu1> you have a great platform to write your apps
Aug 29 09:11:36 <muthu1> and then a wonderful open market to share
Aug 29 09:11:51 <swetland> I have to say, my two favorite reactions from some of the online techpress and blogs are (sarcastically paraphrasing) "OMG android is DOOMED because they will have TOO MANY APPS!" and "OMG they totally ripped off the app store"
Aug 29 09:12:16 <muthu1> they are scared
Aug 29 09:12:31 <muthu1> that their closed walled garden thingy is being taken apart
Aug 29 09:12:34 <swetland> I am constantly amused by the fact that apple did something erases the existance of that thing from before they did it (danger launched on-device app store in 2002 iirc, and plenty of other devices have done that sort of thing)
Aug 29 09:13:15 <muthu1> all iphone developers will switch now
Aug 29 09:13:22 <swetland> "they let you touch an icon on a grid to launch an app! totall ripoff" "okay, I admit it, we stole that from palmos!" ^^
Aug 29 09:13:28 <swetland> muthu: I doubt that
Aug 29 09:13:35 <muthu1> yeah, me too
Aug 29 09:13:38 <swetland> I bet the iphone market is pretty lucrative
Aug 29 09:13:42 <cliff> it is
Aug 29 09:14:03 <swetland> you're looking at a group self-selected for paying a premium for stuff and containing a lot of early adopter types
Aug 29 09:14:10 <cliff> and mroe importantly for 'developers', there's a lot of speculative money in iphone from companies willing to pay tons and tons for iphone app contracting/consultation
Aug 29 09:14:21 <muthu1> yup
Aug 29 09:14:52 <muthu1> when enough money can be made of android
Aug 29 09:15:13 <muthu1> developers will be coming over
Aug 29 09:15:19 <swetland> number of units deployed makes an impact too, of course
Aug 29 09:15:37 <muthu1> gphone is going to be a lot functional and usable than iphone
Aug 29 09:15:42 <swetland> given that right at the moment nobody out there has an android phone (well, some people who've hacked it to run on their vogue, I suppose) ^^
Aug 29 09:15:54 <cliff> kaiser too
Aug 29 09:15:59 <cliff> probably diamond by now
Aug 29 09:16:12 <muthu1> yeah, but once the device comes out
Aug 29 09:16:18 <swetland> and some assorted devboards and so on
Aug 29 09:16:18 <muthu1> its going to happen
Aug 29 09:16:21 <EQU> dammm this TextView hint works so smooth :)
Aug 29 09:16:42 <muthu1> developer were pretty upset last month.. now look what happened
Aug 29 09:17:01 <muthu1> they have fallen in love with android again ;)
Aug 29 09:17:02 <swetland> I'm sure people have found exciting new things to be upset about
Aug 29 09:17:17 <swetland> but there's some good stuff going on and hopefully at least some people are happy
Aug 29 09:17:29 <muthu1> every android developer is happy now
Aug 29 09:17:32 <cliff> i think people will be happier once they actually have a device in hand
Aug 29 09:17:49 <muthu1> yup, and now everyone believes its closer
Aug 29 09:17:54 <muthu1> than they actually thought
Aug 29 09:18:01 <muthu1> so people have gone back to coding
Aug 29 09:18:07 <muthu1> to be ready for the launch
Aug 29 09:18:27 <swetland> cliff: oh certainly. nothing's real until you can buy actual hardware
Aug 29 09:18:39 <muthu1> hope the market has rating etc.,
Aug 29 09:18:41 <swetland> and I think we did a really nice job with the emulator and tools, but developing on the metal is always more fun
Aug 29 09:18:51 <cliff> i hope operators won't be too much of an issue
Aug 29 09:19:09 <swetland> luckily the exact same tools everyone uses for the emulator will work with real hardware. I think people are going to be in for a treat there.
Aug 29 09:19:19 <muthu1> wow, cool
Aug 29 09:19:31 <swetland> what we did for development at danger was totally barbaric in comparison
Aug 29 09:19:42 <cliff> activesync is barbaric in comparison :P
Aug 29 09:20:01 <anno^da> http://hugin.sourceforge.net/tutorials/enfuse-360/DSC_2053-DSC_2064_fused.mov  <- thats what I love open source software for.
Aug 29 09:20:33 <muthu1> android can take a huge chunk of india/china market if they do it right
Aug 29 09:20:40 <cliff> heh
Aug 29 09:20:41 <muthu1> that'll give them a big user base
Aug 29 09:20:46 <cliff> those markets are very very complicated
Aug 29 09:20:52 <muthu1> yeah
Aug 29 09:20:52 <tomgibara> Are there any suggestions for developers outside of the US who want hardware too?
Aug 29 09:21:11 <muthu1> yeah, when's the device coming for the rest of the world?
Aug 29 09:21:14 <cliff> lol
Aug 29 09:21:35 <cliff> you don't actually expect an answer to that do you?
Aug 29 09:21:48 <muthu1> there's some nice goog folks here..
Aug 29 09:21:59 <muthu1> they can answer :)
Aug 29 09:22:26 <swetland> who won't be here for long if we start speculating on unannounced products and schedules and whatnot
Aug 29 09:22:34 <muthu1> hehe
Aug 29 09:22:35 <cliff> s/here/alive/
Aug 29 09:22:43 <muthu1> lol
Aug 29 09:22:44 <tomgibara> I was thinking more along the lines that - if I get a phone, can I test my apps on it w/o a plan?
Aug 29 09:23:01 <tomgibara> I was thinking more about the technicalities
Aug 29 09:23:03 <swetland> depends on what your app does
Aug 29 09:23:43 <swetland> if you want to test something involving cellular voice or data that's unlikely to be very doable ^^
Aug 29 09:24:11 <tomgibara> Would wifi be doable if the phone supported it?
Aug 29 09:24:11 <muthu1> can we mock it up, in that case?
Aug 29 09:24:40 <swetland> it's all going to depend on exact oem/carrier decisions -- it's a platform and you could set it up in many different ways
Aug 29 09:24:57 <tomgibara> ok, I guess I'll have to wait and see.
Aug 29 09:25:21 <muthu1> if it requires a carrier plan for building/testing apps it would suck bigtime
Aug 29 09:25:23 <swetland> hell, you could build a locked down, closed, walled garden device with it.  I'm hoping people will avoid that, but it is an open platform, and we mean that -- we're not going to prevent people from doing whatever with it
Aug 29 09:25:43 <tomgibara> If non-US developers get locked out of developing against real devices then that will create a lot of bad will
Aug 29 09:26:01 <muthu1> agree
Aug 29 09:26:12 <cliff> to be fair, it's not really announced whether US developers can even write applications :)
Aug 29 09:26:17 <tomgibara> I appreciate it's not Google's domain, I'm just stating my prediction
Aug 29 09:27:07 <muthu1> cliff: what do you mena?
Aug 29 09:27:10 <muthu1> s/mena/mean
Aug 29 09:27:20 <muthu1> is infobot on vacation?
Aug 29 09:28:02 <cliff> i was being a bit extreme
Aug 29 09:28:10 <tomgibara> To many, being open means having a level playing field. Developers will feel otherwise if they can't test their apps just because they don't live in the US.
Aug 29 09:28:21 <cliff> that didn't stop iphone from succeeding
Aug 29 09:28:41 <muthu1> not sure why people say iphone is succeeding
Aug 29 09:28:51 <cliff> and you know that realistically if there were barriers someone would eventually hack the device
Aug 29 09:29:01 <tomgibara> The iPhone had hardware available before they released their SDK
Aug 29 09:29:02 <swetland> people are buying 'em. apple's making money. sounds relatively successful
Aug 29 09:29:24 <muthu1> yeah, but mostly in US
Aug 29 09:29:32 <tomgibara> Plus, Android has a pledge of openness that the iPhone never had
Aug 29 09:30:09 <swetland> I doubt iphone is going to own 90+% of the smartphone market any more than osx is going to own 90+% of the desktop pc market.  on the other hand, I don't think that's a requirement for "success"
Aug 29 09:30:26 <romainguy__> done!
Aug 29 09:30:31 <romainguy__> let's upload the code
Aug 29 09:30:52 <swetland> I think the days where a single player can dominate a market that large are past -- the world has moved on since the original ibm pc era
Aug 29 09:31:13 <muthu1> romainguy__: busy uploading,huh?
Aug 29 09:31:24 <muthu1> swetland: agree
Aug 29 09:31:34 <tomgibara> swetland: Probably, there are too many consumers now with very diversified needs
Aug 29 09:32:06 <swetland> and the OEMs and the carriers and the consumers are all more informed and wary now
Aug 29 09:33:12 <muthu1> there's a huge market waiting to be tapped
Aug 29 09:33:46 <cutmasta> http://www.boston.com/bigpicture/2008/08/the_large_hadron_collider.html
Aug 29 09:33:47 <cutmasta> ui
Aug 29 09:33:55 <cutmasta> this thingy cost some dollars :)
Aug 29 09:36:03 <muthu1> wow!
Aug 29 09:37:02 <zhobbs> the LHC rocks
Aug 29 09:37:14 <cliff> yeah that thing is aewsome :)
Aug 29 09:37:20 <cutmasta> oh yeah
Aug 29 09:37:28 <EQU_> amazing!
Aug 29 09:39:58 <fariseo> i wouldnt install any of these :) http://code.google.com/android/adc_gallery/
Aug 29 09:40:43 <cliff> really? i think there's some really cool stuff there
Aug 29 09:40:59 <fariseo> which ones?
Aug 29 09:41:48 <EQU_> PhoneBook 2.0 is usefull
Aug 29 09:41:55 <cliff> shareyourboard is really cool
Aug 29 09:42:09 <cliff> i've always wanted to be able to have a whiteboard while i'm talking to someone
Aug 29 09:42:25 <cliff> locale is really interesting
Aug 29 09:42:44 <cliff> like, what if i want to be logged into IM when i'm away from my computer
Aug 29 09:42:50 <cliff> but not when i'm at my computer
Aug 29 09:43:24 <cliff> or, what if i want to get an alert when i get near someone -- like, lets say i have to give my girlfriend something she left at my place, and i keep forgetting
Aug 29 09:43:48 <romainguy__> application uploaded
Aug 29 09:43:48 <romainguy__> http://code.google.com/p/apps-for-android/source/browse/#svn/trunk/Photostream
Aug 29 09:43:49 <cliff> i just setup an alert that detects when her phone comes close to mine (via bluetooth or gps or whatever)
Aug 29 09:44:00 <tomgibara> To try and convey the situation outside the US, I'm in the UK, I took the opportunity to put the general Android proposition to a someone who's in IT. He was sufficiently interested to want to learn more about the roadmap and what it could mean for his business. I showed him the Android developer timeline and he just snorted with derision.
Aug 29 09:44:07 <romainguy__> I *really* encourage you guys to look at : http://code.google.com/p/apps-for-android/source/browse/trunk/Photostream/src/com/google/android/photostream/UserTask.java
Aug 29 09:44:31 <muthu1> checking..
Aug 29 09:44:45 <romainguy__> and the way it's used, for instance in http://code.google.com/p/apps-for-android/source/browse/trunk/Photostream/src/com/google/android/photostream/LoginActivity.java
Aug 29 09:45:10 <muthu1> checking out..
Aug 29 09:45:59 <muthu1> so PhotoStream is the new app
Aug 29 09:46:12 <zhobbs> tomgibara: what about the timeline turned him off?
Aug 29 09:46:58 <romainguy__> muthu1: yes
Aug 29 09:47:05 <romainguy__> muthu1: I posted screenshots earlier
Aug 29 09:47:12 <muthu1> cool, thx
Aug 29 09:47:32 <tomgibara> zhobbs: I sold him well, he could see the benefits and would consider investing money in developing apps for it. His only question was when would the handsets be available in the UK?
Aug 29 09:47:45 <cliff> is this targeted against 0.9?
Aug 29 09:47:56 <romainguy__> good question
Aug 29 09:47:58 <romainguy__> I hope it is
Aug 29 09:47:59 <zhobbs> tomgibara: ahh, I see
Aug 29 09:48:00 <cliff> heh
Aug 29 09:48:04 <romainguy__> there is one method I'm not sure will work on 0.9
Aug 29 09:48:06 <tomgibara> When I told him that no one knew, he was of the opinion that it's not the way to do business
Aug 29 09:48:07 <romainguy__> in fact, two
Aug 29 09:48:13 <romainguy__> but they're easy to remove
Aug 29 09:49:08 <tomgibara> I appreciate that this is anecdotal, but it gives some feedback on what people think when they meet the platform fairly fresh
Aug 29 09:53:21 <muthu1> romainguy__: what does UserTask do?
Aug 29 09:53:30 <tomgibara> romainguy__: Apart from forgetting my flickr username, it works great
Aug 29 09:53:48 <romainguy__> tomgibara: what do you mean forgetting?
Aug 29 09:53:56 <tomgibara> me forgetting :)
Aug 29 09:54:08 <romainguy__> ah :)
Aug 29 09:54:15 <romainguy__> that's why I populate the field with my name by default :)
Aug 29 09:54:35 <muthu1> felt lazy to start emulator.. starting now..
Aug 29 09:54:35 <cliff> uh lol
Aug 29 09:54:38 <romainguy__> muthu1: look at LoginActivity
Aug 29 09:54:41 <cliff> when you say 'with your name'
Aug 29 09:54:47 <cliff> you mean baked into the image?
Aug 29 09:54:50 <EQU_> romainguy__: "android:columnDelay="25%" " it is possible to define dimen as a percent :) ?
Aug 29 09:55:02 <romainguy__> EQU_: it's a duration
Aug 29 09:55:08 <romainguy__> and yes :)
Aug 29 09:55:08 <tomgibara> Unfortunately the emulator is too slow (in my machine at least) to get the proper effect of the animations
Aug 29 09:55:18 <romainguy__> tomgibara: on the device it's great :))
Aug 29 09:55:20 <cliff> i can't make your name go away :(
Aug 29 09:55:36 <romainguy__> muthu1: UserTask  is an easy way to perform operations on a background thread and post the result on the UI thread
Aug 29 09:55:41 <romainguy__> without using a Handler or a Thread yourself
Aug 29 09:56:16 <cliff> oh weird, there it goes
Aug 29 09:56:17 <romainguy__> tomgibara: go on the Home screen, long press an empty space, then choose "Shortcut > Flickr photos"
Aug 29 09:56:17 <tomgibara> romainguy__: To lazy to read the code, are you preloading the "next" thumbnails? It seems instantaneous
Aug 29 09:56:23 <romainguy__> tomgibara: no I'm not
Aug 29 09:56:28 <romainguy__> the thumbnails are really small
Aug 29 09:56:32 <romainguy__> it kinda sucks on EDGE
Aug 29 09:56:38 <romainguy__> but on WiFi and 3G it's very very fast
Aug 29 09:56:42 <tomgibara> high latency?
Aug 29 09:56:49 <romainguy__> yes
Aug 29 09:57:58 <cliff> oh nice
Aug 29 09:58:06 <cliff> it's -sliiightly- skippy in loadin, but you know that :)
Aug 29 09:58:17 <romainguy__> you mean when the images slide in?
Aug 29 09:58:19 <cliff> ys
Aug 29 09:58:31 <romainguy__> yeah, there's not much we can do about it unfortunately
Aug 29 09:58:36 <romainguy__> the CPU is busy downloading and processing bitmaps :))
Aug 29 09:58:46 <cliff> yeah, just overclock the cpu while it's doing that
Aug 29 09:59:03 <muthu1> there's no login button?
Aug 29 09:59:08 <cliff> hit enter
Aug 29 09:59:14 <muthu1> yeah, did
Aug 29 09:59:16 <romainguy__> muthu1: just click enter or touch the text field
Aug 29 10:00:00 <muthu1> nice
Aug 29 10:00:11 <cliff> bah
Aug 29 10:00:13 <EQU_> romainguy__: .psd is a picture format ?
Aug 29 10:00:19 <cliff> i wish i could do gestures!
Aug 29 10:00:19 <romainguy__> EQU_: Photoshop
Aug 29 10:00:25 <tomgibara> romainguy__: The home icon doesn't feature my buddy icon, is that correct?
Aug 29 10:00:29 <cliff> it lends itself so well to gestures
Aug 29 10:00:41 <romainguy__> tomgibara: it should if you had one
Aug 29 10:01:00 <romainguy__> cliff: there are reasons why I didn't do gestures but I cannot explain why
Aug 29 10:01:11 <tomgibara> romainguy__: I do have one, but I got a grey square face instead
Aug 29 10:01:19 <romainguy__> tomgibara: if there was a network error you will get this icon
Aug 29 10:01:27 <romainguy__> unfortunately the Flickr servers are kinda flaky
Aug 29 10:01:37 <cliff> well, it makes sense since it wouldn't respond instantly to touch
Aug 29 10:01:41 <cliff> with the loadin
Aug 29 10:01:46 <cliff> from the server
Aug 29 10:01:50 <romainguy__> similarly you might sometimes (often on EDGE) see question marks instead of pictures
Aug 29 10:02:14 <muthu1> there's a lot of question marks
Aug 29 10:02:28 <romainguy__> then you are getting crappy results from Flickr
Aug 29 10:02:33 <romainguy__> it does that a lot sometimes :((
Aug 29 10:02:33 <cliff> other than the loadin it works super well
Aug 29 10:02:35 <muthu1> yup
Aug 29 10:02:44 <cliff> could you preprocess the images and then do the animation after?
Aug 29 10:02:44 <muthu1> and only your account works
Aug 29 10:02:51 <romainguy__> cliff: that's what I do
Aug 29 10:02:59 <romainguy__> but while an animation is playing, another image is loading
Aug 29 10:03:00 <tomgibara> romainguy__: A small usability issue on the homescreen, in landscape mode, it's quite tricky to remove a shortcut without inadvertently scrolling right.
Aug 29 10:03:09 <cliff> oh.. can you load them all at once is what i meant
Aug 29 10:03:17 <romainguy__> tomgibara: not an issue on actual devices :)
Aug 29 10:03:19 <cliff> or are you just trying to use this as a code example for async tasks :)
Aug 29 10:03:30 <romainguy__> cliff: no, on EDGE its way too slow to do all at once
Aug 29 10:03:33 <cliff> oh
Aug 29 10:03:35 <romainguy__> but you can start loading a page
Aug 29 10:03:36 <romainguy__> go Home
Aug 29 10:03:38 <romainguy__> wait a while
Aug 29 10:03:40 <romainguy__> go back to the app
Aug 29 10:03:41 <tomgibara> romainguy__: One day I'll  find out for myself :)
Aug 29 10:03:48 <romainguy__> and you'll see everything animate at once
Aug 29 10:04:08 <cliff> hm
Aug 29 10:04:50 <romainguy__> anyway, this is mostly a demo :)
Aug 29 10:04:54 <cliff> sure
Aug 29 10:04:59 <muthu1> romainguy__: dodges a lot of questions by saying it works well with the device ;)
Aug 29 10:05:05 <cliff> huh
Aug 29 10:05:11 <cliff> are these images coming from flickr or my device?
Aug 29 10:05:18 <romainguy__> from flickr
Aug 29 10:05:21 <cliff> oh.
Aug 29 10:05:25 <cliff> you wrote the home screen, heh
Aug 29 10:05:30 <romainguy__> I did
Aug 29 10:05:38 <tomgibara> romainguy__: Not bad romain, I only have two bugs to report :)
Aug 29 10:05:38 <romainguy__> it shows how to use themes, activity aliases, create shortcuts, set wallpaper, user the UI thread properly, use styles, custom layouts, attributes, etc.
Aug 29 10:05:46 <cliff> i love the path picture
Aug 29 10:06:01 <romainguy__> tomgibara: fire away :p
Aug 29 10:06:29 <tomgibara> Adding a shortcut in landscape mode never displays the buddy icon, portrait mode always does (repeated this 3 time to make sure)
Aug 29 10:06:36 <romainguy__> ah yes
Aug 29 10:06:40 <romainguy__> there was a bug we fixed
Aug 29 10:06:54 <romainguy__> at some point Home didn't like to be rotated when creating shortcuts
Aug 29 10:07:10 <tomgibara> That's the second bug I found
Aug 29 10:07:22 <romainguy__> and what's the other one?
Aug 29 10:07:47 <tomgibara> The one above refers to getting the grey square instead of my buddy icon
Aug 29 10:07:51 <romainguy__> ah yes
Aug 29 10:07:59 <romainguy__> well that is not necessarily a bug
Aug 29 10:08:06 <tomgibara> It seems pretty consistent
Aug 29 10:08:09 <romainguy__> because it definitely works for all the contacts I try
Aug 29 10:09:04 <romainguy__> what's your user name on Flickr?
Aug 29 10:09:11 <tomgibara> just: gibara
Aug 29 10:09:30 <romainguy__> yeah it fails for you
Aug 29 10:09:38 <romainguy__> but it works for 10 of my friends
Aug 29 10:09:47 <romainguy__> stupid Flickr
Aug 29 10:09:55 <tomgibara> Well, put that down to flickr then
Aug 29 10:10:07 <romainguy__> I'll try to investigate that tomorrow
Aug 29 10:10:20 <tomgibara> There may be a memory leak in the home app too, it just failed with java.lang.RuntimeException: can't alloc pixels
Aug 29 10:10:24 <romainguy__> maybe your icon is on a different serverl
Aug 29 10:10:28 <romainguy__> tomgibara: yeah, fixed
Aug 29 10:10:38 <cliff> seriously -- the path picture is awesome, i keep it set all the time as my wallpaper
Aug 29 10:10:45 <cliff> it looks so nice
Aug 29 10:10:46 <romainguy__> cliff: I'm glad you like it :)
Aug 29 10:10:48 <cliff> like
Aug 29 10:11:07 <cliff> when i first found it with the new homescreen i just swept the screen back and forth for like half an hour
Aug 29 10:11:13 <cliff> the parallax is so neat
Aug 29 10:11:30 <romainguy__> well on my Flickr account you can grab the full res version
Aug 29 10:11:37 <tomgibara> romainguy__: Thanks for the code, I'm sure it will be useful to learn from
Aug 29 10:11:44 <romainguy__> tomgibara: hopefully
Aug 29 10:11:54 <romainguy__> tomgibara: I sincerely think that UserTask will be helpful
Aug 29 10:13:13 <cliff> huh
Aug 29 10:13:21 <cliff> the picture on flickr looks a lot orange-r
Aug 29 10:13:53 <romainguy> cliff: there are two versions of the photo
Aug 29 10:13:58 <romainguy> The Path and The Path (Original)
Aug 29 10:14:04 <cliff> yeah but both look orange-r
Aug 29 10:14:05 <tomgibara> cliff: I think the word you're looking for is orangy :)
Aug 29 10:14:11 <cliff> well
Aug 29 10:14:16 <cliff> it's oranger than the one on android
Aug 29 10:14:33 <cliff> like i have the two sitting right next to each other
Aug 29 10:14:35 <romainguy> probably a side effect of the 565 conversion
Aug 29 10:14:38 <cliff> one is like pinkish
Aug 29 10:14:39 <cliff> ah
Aug 29 10:14:41 <cliff> really
Aug 29 10:14:43 <cliff> that's quite different
Aug 29 10:15:12 <anno^da> nice app and nice animation. But it doesnt like my flickr name either :)
Aug 29 10:15:24 <cliff> oh, i guess i can test this theory heh
Aug 29 10:16:01 <EQU_> romainguy__: what haapens with DrawingCache after child view is removed ?
Aug 29 10:16:06 <muthu1> ha, nice
Aug 29 10:16:12 <muthu1> finally remembered my login
Aug 29 10:16:51 <muthu1> romainguy__: good job
Aug 29 10:16:54 <muthu1> simple and useful
Aug 29 10:16:55 <cliff> romainguy: that's exactly what it was
Aug 29 10:16:58 <romainguy> EQU_: it just gets garbage collected
Aug 29 10:17:01 <romainguy> cliff:  :)
Aug 29 10:17:03 <cliff> it's weird..and i actually prefer the 565 version :)
Aug 29 10:17:36 <cliff> it contrasts better since there's already orange on the screen with like the contacts icon
Aug 29 10:18:34 <romainguy> muthu1: thanks
Aug 29 10:18:54 <muthu1> photo cannot be set as wallpaper
Aug 29 10:18:59 <muthu1> is that a known issue?
Aug 29 10:19:04 <romainguy> yeah it happens when the download fails
Aug 29 10:19:08 <cliff> that's cause you haven't paid for it yet
Aug 29 10:19:09 <muthu1> ok
Aug 29 10:19:10 <romainguy> again, stupid Flickr servers
Aug 29 10:19:20 <muthu1> cliff: ha!
Aug 29 10:19:47 <cliff> seriously though, flickr store for wallpapers = win :)
Aug 29 10:20:03 <romainguy> or better yet
Aug 29 10:20:05 <romainguy> free :)
Aug 29 10:20:17 <romainguy> (all my photos are under Creative Commons license fwiw)
Aug 29 10:20:20 <cliff> hehe
Aug 29 10:20:40 <cliff> just saying, an amateur photographer could potentially make some cash from android
Aug 29 10:20:48 <cliff> i'm all for free though :)
Aug 29 10:22:32 <cliff> blah my ONLY complaint on the home screen is the focus issues with moving certain stuff around
Aug 29 10:22:39 <cliff> hard to click down sometimes
Aug 29 10:22:57 <romainguy> it's a lot easier with a finger
Aug 29 10:23:07 <cliff> sometimes
Aug 29 10:23:15 <zhobbs> that's what she said
Aug 29 10:23:16 <romainguy> no I'm telling you it is :)
Aug 29 10:23:18 <cliff> i mean when there's an edit box
Aug 29 10:23:27 <cliff> sometimes it gets confused
Aug 29 10:23:34 <romainguy> ah
Aug 29 10:23:39 <romainguy> you can long press the edit box itself
Aug 29 10:23:45 <romainguy> but there was a bug too in there that we fixed :)
Aug 29 10:23:47 <cliff> yeah i just figured that out as i was talking to you :)
Aug 29 10:24:22 <cliff> sometimes you have to try a couple times though
Aug 29 10:24:36 <cliff> i think it tries to like, hold out to see if you're doing a gesture
Aug 29 10:39:36 <cliff> android should beep or something when it crashes, so that you don't keep hitting it trying to get something to happen
Aug 29 12:33:55 <Acsia> Anybody has problems with opening raw files and character encoding?
Aug 29 12:46:34 <Acsia> anybody has an exemple of reading a file line by line as a raw resource?
Aug 29 12:46:43 <Acsia> I get giberish when I try with input stream
Aug 29 12:47:56 <DJTachyon> hey guys ... is there somewhere to get the android logo gimp/ps files or the android fonts?
Aug 29 12:49:00 <Acsia> you can get the font from system/font I believe
Aug 29 12:49:32 <DJTachyon> i figured :P
Aug 29 12:49:34 <Acsia> http://code.google.com/android/goodies/index.html
Aug 29 12:49:58 <DJTachyon> Yeah I was hoping for a scalable vector image of those with layers or something
Aug 29 12:50:11 <DJTachyon> not that it is hard to create
Aug 29 12:50:58 <DJTachyon> sdk\tools\lib\fonts :)
Aug 29 12:56:35 <swetland> http://www.openhandsetalliance.com/images/android_bigger.jpg
Aug 29 12:56:43 <swetland> not vector, sadly
Aug 29 13:45:04 <Acsia> o man
Aug 29 13:45:20 <Acsia> I ve been instrumenting the wrong package
Aug 29 13:45:29 <Acsia> so whenevre I tried to read the raw.file
Aug 29 13:45:33 <Acsia> it opened rubbish
Aug 29 14:15:27 <tsudot1> i was developing a sms notifier application, so android.telephony packages is what i should consider right?
Aug 29 14:36:45 <DJTachyon> anybody know what font that is on the main android logo?
Aug 29 14:59:29 <jasta> yawn
Aug 29 15:06:24 <SanMehat> morning
Aug 29 15:06:43 <jasta> half day today, then no work monday, wooo :)
Aug 29 15:06:48 <jasta> then ireland on thursday :P
Aug 29 15:06:53 <jasta> happy times
Aug 29 15:07:20 <SanMehat> cool
Aug 29 15:07:39 <DJTachyon> same here, except europe isnt til sept 18th for me :P
Aug 29 15:43:16 <jasta> whenever i leave the emulator running for a w hile then go back to it, it is always "stuck" for several minutes
Aug 29 15:43:47 <jasta> W/SurfaceComposerClient(   56): lock_layer timed out (is the CPU pegged?) layer=1, lcblk=0x4228c0a0, state=00000012 (was 00000012)
Aug 29 15:45:03 <mikez5> benley: yes please write one thxkbye
Aug 29 15:45:22 <mikez5> oops, wrong window
Aug 29 15:45:26 <SanMehat> morning
Aug 29 15:45:49 <mikez5> Hey San
Aug 29 15:46:50 <SanMehat> hey mike how goes?
Aug 29 15:49:18 <mikez5> I'm having fun with Python
Aug 29 15:49:32 <SanMehat> really?
Aug 29 15:49:34 <SanMehat> :)
Aug 29 15:50:39 <jasta> off to work
Aug 29 15:50:43 <jasta> *woo*, half day!
Aug 29 16:18:54 <jasta> damn, i ran a 1400 byte payload ping repeating every half second to our portland office all day long yesterday
Aug 29 16:18:59 <jasta> averaged to 28ms
Aug 29 17:11:02 <plusminus_> what is the common replacement for MapView's OnLongPressListener ?
Aug 29 17:12:37 <plusminus_> making an Overlay ?
Aug 29 17:45:48 <anno^da> Oh I love this kind of comments: "I hope the winner of the Android challenge has ensured that he is in good terms with the patent holder for location-based switching of device settings of the profile. If the location-switching is based on the network infrastructure such as A-GPS then Ericsson holds the patent. If the switching is done based local radios such as WLAN, Bluetooth, or other near-field radio solutions, then Nokia holds the patent."
Aug 29 17:45:58 <anno^da> fucking software patents.
Aug 29 17:50:08 <chouman82> hello there
Aug 29 17:50:17 <chouman82> got a question about the verifier in android
Aug 29 17:50:22 <chouman82> anyone is familiar with that?
Aug 29 17:50:50 <f00f-> state your question
Aug 29 17:51:34 <f00f-> anno^da: yeah, patents probably won't be a big issue for free apps imho
Aug 29 17:51:56 <f00f-> unless they start to rake in loads of cash
Aug 29 17:52:04 <f00f-> and that's when the patent holders will raise an eyebrow
Aug 29 17:52:50 <romainguy__> ypo
Aug 29 18:01:50 <jasta> f00f-: actually, i disagree.
Aug 29 18:01:59 <jasta> if google distributes free apps, there will be a BIG issue with patent infringement
Aug 29 18:02:05 <jasta> that's how these matters work.
Aug 29 18:02:13 <jasta> if there is a target with deep pockets somewhere, it will be attacked.
Aug 29 18:02:32 <jasta> that's why software that openly violates patents or copyrights can never be commercially adopted or supported, though it can still exist.
Aug 29 18:02:44 <romainguy> jasta: did you see the Open Source app I posted last night?
Aug 29 18:02:49 <jasta> no?
Aug 29 18:02:52 <jasta> where at?
Aug 29 18:03:07 <romainguy> http://code.google.com/p/apps-for-android/
Aug 29 18:03:10 <romainguy> the Photostream one
Aug 29 18:03:34 <romainguy> you might want to take a lose look at the class called UserTask
Aug 29 18:03:37 <jasta> ohhh very cool
Aug 29 18:03:39 <romainguy> it would probably be useful in your app
Aug 29 18:04:46 <jasta> that's pretty cool, but i have a pretty good general solution for this these days
Aug 29 18:04:51 <DJTachyon> so what kind of gps is gonna be in this thing? and actual receiver or just tower triangulation?
Aug 29 18:04:56 <muthu> re
Aug 29 18:05:06 <romainguy> DJTachyon: you'll see when devices are released
Aug 29 18:05:12 <DJTachyon> indeed .. indeed ..
Aug 29 18:05:24 <jasta> romainguy: that's cool though i'd really like to dig in to your code :)
Aug 29 18:05:40 <romainguy> feel free
Aug 29 18:06:12 <DJTachyon> i wonder if T-Mobile will give me a data plan with no voice/text plan ;)
Aug 29 18:06:20 <muthu> jasta: any favs in top 20?
Aug 29 18:06:24 <romainguy> the app could be improved by making sure worker threads are properly cancelled when the app goes in the background though
Aug 29 18:07:27 <jasta> i appreciate the generalization.  my normal solution is to create a separate handler class which just wraps all the things like sendProgress, sendBegin, sendFinished, etc.
Aug 29 18:07:36 <jasta> which actually i am happy with
Aug 29 18:07:47 <jasta> but its hard to reuse that code
Aug 29 18:08:00 <romainguy__> yeah, my code was to make handlers and thread go away
Aug 29 18:08:14 <romainguy__> it's largely inspired from Swing's SwingWorker
Aug 29 18:08:32 <muthu> then why we need handler?
Aug 29 18:08:40 <jasta> muthu: he uses a handler as well, he just abstracts it
Aug 29 18:08:51 <romainguy__> muthu: it's implemented with a Handler
Aug 29 18:09:01 <muthu> oh ok
Aug 29 18:09:37 <muthu> in the java world, i'm bitten by the frameworks more than once :(
Aug 29 18:10:02 <muthu> too much of abstractions!
Aug 29 18:10:16 <romainguy__> tell me about it
Aug 29 18:10:20 <romainguy__> I used HttpClient for this app
Aug 29 18:10:34 <romainguy__> I don't think they could have made it more convoluted to send an HTTP GET request
Aug 29 18:10:36 <muthu> j2ee is complex for this exact same reason
Aug 29 18:10:54 <muthu> struts/spring/seam/hibernate........
Aug 29 18:11:03 <romainguy__> some of them are actually nice
Aug 29 18:11:07 <romainguy__> like Guice and Wicket
Aug 29 18:11:14 <muthu> junit/testng..poco/nano...
Aug 29 18:11:24 <muthu> guice/wicket/tapestry/velocity....
Aug 29 18:11:29 <romainguy__> the author of TestNG works on Android, we share the same office :))
Aug 29 18:11:43 <romainguy__> he's actually here on this channel right now
Aug 29 18:11:45 <muthu> cedric, he logs in sometimes
Aug 29 18:11:57 * romainguy__ tickles Cedric2 
Aug 29 18:12:26 <muthu> what happened to cedric and hani?
Aug 29 18:12:47 <muthu> the last i know, they were writing a book together
Aug 29 18:12:53 <romainguy__> they published the book
Aug 29 18:13:12 <romainguy__> but these days they seem to be mostly playing World of Warcraft :p
Aug 29 18:13:19 <muthu> haha
Aug 29 18:13:27 <muthu> hani totally disappeared
Aug 29 18:13:34 <muthu> cedric now i know is with android
Aug 29 18:13:57 <muthu> testng is pretty cool
Aug 29 18:14:06 <muthu> it was not easy to challenge junit
Aug 29 18:14:19 <muthu> and cedric did it with great style!
Aug 29 18:14:44 <romainguy__> yes TestNG is nice
Aug 29 18:15:01 <muthu> i like it just for the fact that it challenge junit
Aug 29 18:15:14 <muthu> everyone was so into junit
Aug 29 18:15:20 <muthu> until testng came along...
Aug 29 18:16:20 <muthu> so i figured out why good is heavy on python
Aug 29 18:16:26 <muthu> s/good/goog
Aug 29 18:16:40 <romainguy__> why?
Aug 29 18:17:13 <muthu> coz you have the python guru with you ;)
Aug 29 18:17:38 <romainguy__> I think it's the other way around
Aug 29 18:18:08 <muthu> really?
Aug 29 18:18:16 <bricode> Howdy all.
Aug 29 18:18:25 <muthu> bricode: what's up?
Aug 29 18:18:44 <bricode> muthu: Not much. Just poking around Android land :)
Aug 29 18:18:54 <muthu> bricode: welcome!
Aug 29 18:19:02 <bricode> muthu: Thanks.
Aug 29 18:19:04 <muthu> this is the best place to be right now
Aug 29 18:19:23 <bricode> muthu: Mostly Google employees, or enthusiasts in this chan?
Aug 29 18:19:35 <muthu> bricode: we have all kinds
Aug 29 18:19:46 <bricode> muthu: Good.
Aug 29 18:19:53 <muthu> lots of goog folks lurk around
Aug 29 18:20:11 * SanMehat lurks
Aug 29 18:20:19 <muthu> and we talk almost anything but android ;)
Aug 29 18:20:19 <jasta> romainguy__: httpclient is meant to be an http client, not a simple subset of an http client as the URL class is.
Aug 29 18:20:30 <muthu> bricode: meet jasta
Aug 29 18:20:39 <SanMehat> bricode: mainly we listen to jasta bitch :P
Aug 29 18:20:47 <jasta> romainguy__: they also implement it in such a way that it can be gracefully aborted, where URL cannot.
Aug 29 18:20:52 <romainguy__> jasta: I know, but even though, I would like if there was an easy way to do simple tasks easily
Aug 29 18:21:08 <romainguy__> just doing a GET / is ridiculous
Aug 29 18:21:10 <bricode> Sounds exciting.
Aug 29 18:21:15 <romainguy__> but it works well :)
Aug 29 18:21:25 <jasta> romainguy__: yeah, i tend to agree but it is difficult to come up with a very general, flexible API, and then destroy it with some "easy" helper class :)
Aug 29 18:22:44 <muthu> i made some great friends during IO
Aug 29 18:22:50 <muthu> lots of emails pouring in..
Aug 29 18:23:00 <SanMehat> muthu: I was at IO too, sorry i missed you
Aug 29 18:23:08 <muthu> me too
Aug 29 18:23:16 <muthu> i just didn't get organized at IO
Aug 29 18:23:18 <muthu> was too early for me
Aug 29 18:24:05 <muthu> we'll meet next time ;)
Aug 29 18:24:24 <muthu> jasta: what's the plan for adc2?
Aug 29 18:25:15 <chouman82> anyone has came across VerifyError when trying to use the java bean package?
Aug 29 18:28:03 <muthu> mobile search is sooo broken
Aug 29 18:28:31 <muthu> is goog innovating in mobile search?
Aug 29 18:30:40 <muthu> androidguys has become the numero uno android news site
Aug 29 18:31:22 <chouman82> anyone know what the verifier on android allows and diallows?
Aug 29 18:31:37 <muthu> chouman82: when you get that error?
Aug 29 18:33:38 <muthu> anyone know when paid apps get into the android market?
Aug 29 18:33:46 <Dougie187> after launch.
Aug 29 18:33:58 <Dougie187> didn't you read the blog?
Aug 29 18:34:05 <muthu> Dougie187: after launch
Aug 29 18:34:13 <muthu> you mean in 2009?
Aug 29 18:34:26 <Dougie187> probably not.
Aug 29 18:34:30 <Dougie187> probably by december.
Aug 29 18:34:35 <muthu> yeah, prbly
Aug 29 18:34:42 <Dougie187> it says an update will be released shortly after launch.
Aug 29 18:34:55 <muthu> right.. so we don't know
Aug 29 18:34:56 <Dougie187> but how soon that is depends on your definition of short.
Aug 29 18:35:12 <muthu> what's goog definition of short?
Aug 29 18:35:21 <Dougie187> google define:short
Aug 29 18:35:27 <muthu> haha
Aug 29 18:36:09 <romainguy__> please note that the Market app shown in the blog post is not the *only* way to distribute apps
Aug 29 18:36:25 <romainguy__> 3rd parties can create their own Market-like apps
Aug 29 18:36:33 <romainguy__> you can still install from your computer
Aug 29 18:36:34 <f00f-> you think operators won't block unsigned/unauthorized .apk's ?
Aug 29 18:36:35 <Dougie187> but how would you distribute those apps?
Aug 29 18:36:37 <romainguy__> or from the web browser
Aug 29 18:37:07 <Dougie187> what's the point in making a market like app if there is already one from google?
Aug 29 18:37:27 <romainguy__> Dougie187: why would write a new Home screen then? or a new SMS app?
Aug 29 18:37:36 <Dougie187> obviously 90% of users would chose the google one over any other one just because its by google.
Aug 29 18:37:39 <romainguy__> you do whatever you want, that's the point :)
Aug 29 18:38:19 <Dougie187> are you still working with the home screen?
Aug 29 18:38:59 <muthu> the point is, there'll be many markets and most of them from the carriers
Aug 29 18:39:41 <muthu> but gmarket will be the most popular market
Aug 29 18:39:42 <romainguy__> Dougie187: yes
Aug 29 18:39:53 <Dougie187> you get any super cool new features for it done?
Aug 29 18:40:21 <romainguy__> the Home screen you have in the SDK is feature-complete for 1.0
Aug 29 18:40:38 <Dougie187> but are there features that will be thrown in later?
Aug 29 18:40:43 <Dougie187> with... lets say... an update?
Aug 29 18:40:50 <romainguy__> sure
Aug 29 18:41:05 <Dougie187> i would assume you are not at liberty to discuss said features?
Aug 29 18:41:17 <romainguy__> there's nothing planned yet
Aug 29 18:41:20 <Dougie187> oh
Aug 29 18:41:20 <Dougie187> ok
Aug 29 18:41:26 <romainguy__> but we'll probably try to come up with a widget API
Aug 29 18:41:37 <Dougie187> thats cool.
Aug 29 18:41:42 <romainguy__> although that will require quite some work in the framework, so I really cannot say when we can expect this to be delivered
Aug 29 18:41:55 <Dougie187> true.
Aug 29 18:41:59 <Dougie187> but that would be pretty neat.
Aug 29 18:42:00 <romainguy__> there's another cool feature that I definitely want to make happen for the first update
Aug 29 18:42:08 <romainguy__> but I won't say what it is :p
Aug 29 18:42:10 <Dougie187> lol
Aug 29 18:42:15 <Dougie187> you won't? or you can't?
Aug 29 18:42:25 <romainguy__> I won't, for now
Aug 29 18:42:27 <Dougie187> ok.
Aug 29 18:42:33 <Dougie187> I have a question.
Aug 29 18:42:35 <romainguy__> sure
Aug 29 18:42:45 <Dougie187> Is it going to incorporate google calendar?
Aug 29 18:42:48 <Dougie187> android in general.
Aug 29 18:43:04 <Dougie187> or would an app have to be written for that.
Aug 29 18:43:20 <Dougie187> ...
Aug 29 18:43:31 <DJTachyon> i just found nuevasync for finally syncing google calendar directly through an exchange server for windows mobile .. what a pain .. it will have google calendar support built in Dougie
Aug 29 18:43:36 <romainguy__> Dougie187: wait & see :))
Aug 29 18:43:38 <Dougie187> i guess i answered my own question.
Aug 29 18:43:38 <Dougie187> lol
Aug 29 18:43:40 <DJTachyon> :P
Aug 29 18:43:41 <Dougie187> ok
Aug 29 18:43:56 <romainguy__> Dougie187: All I can say is that the SDK is not a phone
Aug 29 18:43:59 <Dougie187> i know
Aug 29 18:44:01 <DJTachyon> i would be baffled if it didn't ..
Aug 29 18:44:01 <romainguy__> it's just an SDK
Aug 29 18:44:01 <Dougie187> thats why i ask.
Aug 29 18:44:06 <DJTachyon> but wait and see is right :)
Aug 29 18:44:13 <Dougie187> the sdk doesn't contain that locking feature from the demo either, right?
Aug 29 18:44:20 <Dougie187> at least from what i have seen...
Aug 29 18:45:44 <romainguy__> hmm I don't know
Aug 29 18:45:52 <muthu> is there a gears example in android?
Aug 29 18:45:55 <Dougie187> do you know what im talking about though?
Aug 29 18:46:07 <romainguy__> it might be there but since you cannot set your own "password" in the SDK...
Aug 29 18:46:10 <romainguy__> muthu: yes
Aug 29 18:46:13 <romainguy__> muthu: any Gears web site :)
Aug 29 18:46:20 <romainguy__> http://rememberthemilk.com for instance
Aug 29 18:46:25 <Dougie187> lol
Aug 29 18:46:27 <romainguy__> it will create a shortcut with a nice icon on your Home screen
Aug 29 18:46:31 <Dougie187> isn't there an app for that?
Aug 29 18:46:38 <Dougie187> on the top 50?
Aug 29 18:46:54 <muthu> most of the opensocials are web based now
Aug 29 18:47:03 <muthu> so am thinking of webkit/gears
Aug 29 18:47:42 <muthu> android examples are lacking in webkit/gears section
Aug 29 18:48:08 <Dougie187> hey romainguy__ did you guys write the little blurbs for the top 50 in the ADC Gallery? or did you let the dev's write them?
Aug 29 18:50:54 <romainguy__> I have no idea
Aug 29 18:51:05 <Dougie187> ok
Aug 29 18:51:12 <muthu> Dougie187: why?
Aug 29 18:51:38 <Dougie187> some of them seem to not advertise the app's in a positive way.
Aug 29 18:51:53 <muthu> they were just lazy and tired
Aug 29 18:55:34 <jasta> romainguy__: that's very cool that you released this :)
Aug 29 18:55:41 <romainguy__> glad you like it
Aug 29 19:01:15 <jasta> romainguy__: it's just so important that there are non-trivial samples out there
Aug 29 19:27:51 <umdk1d3> so im still trying to get this gesture stuff working with ListView children
Aug 29 19:28:18 <umdk1d3> when i setLongClickable() on the child so i can get onTouch() events, it seems to not broadcast the touch events up to the ListView
Aug 29 19:29:20 <umdk1d3> specifically, the ListView doesnt do its longclick detection on the items to fire onItemLongClick() events
Aug 29 19:30:23 <umdk1d3> even though im returning false on my per-item onTouch() events (which says i didnt consume the event, right?)
Aug 29 20:15:07 <umdk1d3> hmm
Aug 29 20:15:33 <umdk1d3> is there any way to decrease the sensitivity of the ScrollView on how quickly it will take over touch events?
Aug 29 20:29:01 <umdk1d3> ooh  requestDisallowInterceptTouchEvent()
Aug 29 20:34:45 <DJTachyon> woooo
Aug 29 20:34:46 <DJTachyon> :P
Aug 29 20:36:13 <romainguy__> umdk1d3: you should not have to do any of these things
Aug 29 20:36:18 <romainguy__> what exactly are you trying to do?
Aug 29 20:41:46 <DJTachyon> Is there a way to mount sdcard.img in cygwin?
Aug 29 20:54:18 <DJTachyon> Dougie187: com.google.wireless.gdata.calendar.data should tell you something
Aug 29 21:02:42 <jasta> YAWN
Aug 29 21:04:20 <DJTachyon> you yawn and bitch a lot jasta :P .. and i've only been here a couple days ;)
Aug 29 21:04:54 <jasta> thanks for commenting.
Aug 29 21:05:01 <jasta> should i, now?
Aug 29 21:05:59 <jasta> romainguy__: i'm seeing some weird dithering in the photos on photostream in the emulator.  is this present on the device as well?
Aug 29 21:06:32 <romainguy__> yes it's because of the scaling
Aug 29 21:06:34 <romainguy__> I know how to fix it
Aug 29 21:06:41 <romainguy__> I just didn't get around to do it yet
Aug 29 21:07:35 <jasta> i noticed that you rotate the images using the canvas.  is that 3D accelerated where possible?
Aug 29 21:07:42 <romainguy__> nope
Aug 29 21:07:54 <romainguy__> in the SDK 0.9 you can enable the hw acceleration for that
Aug 29 21:08:01 <romainguy__> but we removed the feature for 1.0
Aug 29 21:08:23 <jasta> interesting.  are there plans to reintroduce acceleration?
Aug 29 21:08:43 <romainguy__> after 1.0 certainly
Aug 29 21:08:58 <romainguy__> but our current implementation has some bad bugs left
Aug 29 21:09:06 <romainguy__> and mapping Skia to OpenGL ES 1.x is very difficult
Aug 29 21:09:12 <jasta> Skia?
Aug 29 21:09:17 <romainguy__> the 2D library
Aug 29 21:09:22 <romainguy__> SGL
Aug 29 21:09:22 <jasta> i thought it was called SDL?
Aug 29 21:09:26 <romainguy__> Skia Graphics Library
Aug 29 21:09:30 <romainguy__> we call it Skia
Aug 29 21:09:31 <jasta> err yes, SGL :)
Aug 29 21:09:41 <romainguy__> OpenGL ES 2.0 with shaders will make this feature a lot easier to implement
Aug 29 21:13:49 <jasta> romainguy__: what the hell is that "..." syntax you use here?
Aug 29 21:13:56 * jasta checks his eyes
Aug 29 21:14:07 <romainguy_> it's varargs
Aug 29 21:14:19 <jasta> i had no idea java had that
Aug 29 21:14:23 <romainguy_> void food(String.... bar) can be called this way: food("a", "b", "c")
Aug 29 21:14:30 <jasta> *reading*
Aug 29 21:14:40 <romainguy_> it just gives you an array
Aug 29 21:15:20 <jasta> that surprises me a lot that such a feature would be added
Aug 29 21:15:27 <romainguy_> why?
Aug 29 21:15:45 <jasta> it just seems against the grain to most Java design ideas.
Aug 29 21:15:51 <romainguy_> I disagree
Aug 29 21:16:01 <romainguy_> that's how they were able to add String.format() or even printf()
Aug 29 21:16:04 <romainguy_> it's useful and nice
Aug 29 21:16:12 <jasta> well, first of all, it must have created an entirely new type of signature.
Aug 29 21:16:25 <romainguy_> nope
Aug 29 21:16:25 <jasta> which seems very counterintuitive to Java.
Aug 29 21:16:29 <romainguy_> because it becomes an array
Aug 29 21:16:39 <jasta> oh that's true
Aug 29 21:16:52 <romainguy_> it's just used as a hint for the compiler
Aug 29 21:16:53 <jasta> what happens if you pass an array then?  does that decompose for you?
Aug 29 21:17:03 <romainguy_> no, no need
Aug 29 21:17:08 <romainguy_> String... params is an array
Aug 29 21:17:12 <romainguy_> you do this in the code:
Aug 29 21:17:17 <romainguy_> params[0], etc.
Aug 29 21:17:20 <romainguy_> what you cannot do is:
Aug 29 21:17:20 <jasta> i'm asking what *if* you do
Aug 29 21:17:34 <romainguy_> food(String[] a) -> food(a, v, c)
Aug 29 21:19:36 <umdk1d4> hmm i have my "extends FrameView {}" class, but its onTouchEvent() isnt getting fired
Aug 29 21:19:49 <umdk1d4> ive tried setClickable() and setLongClickable()
Aug 29 21:19:55 <umdk1d4> which has kinda worked in the past
Aug 29 21:19:59 <romainguy_> use onInterceptTouchEvent
Aug 29 21:20:08 * umdk1d4 tries
Aug 29 21:25:37 <jasta> romainguy__: this getLastNonConfigurationInstance usage in ViewPhotoActivity...is it to optimize for rotation only?
Aug 29 21:25:51 <romainguy_> not necessarily just rotation
Aug 29 21:25:55 <jasta> what else?
Aug 29 21:26:01 <romainguy_> it's used when the activity is torn down and recreated immediately
Aug 29 21:26:04 <romainguy_> so for now, it's rotation
Aug 29 21:26:08 <romainguy_> it's very useful
Aug 29 21:26:15 <jasta> yes i agree
Aug 29 21:26:15 <romainguy_> I need to add it in the PhotostreamActivity as well
Aug 29 21:26:30 <jasta> there is a lot i am learning from this code
Aug 29 21:26:56 <romainguy_> glad to hear that
Aug 29 21:27:43 <romainguy_> alias activities are really cool too
Aug 29 21:27:45 <romainguy_> in the manifest
Aug 29 21:28:18 <romainguy_> I also enjoyed using styles to adapt my layouts to portrait/landscape rather than maintaining several layout XML files
Aug 29 21:28:19 <romainguy_> anyway
Aug 29 21:29:08 <jasta> you really have a nack for this stuff :)
Aug 29 21:29:56 <romainguy_> I love UI development :)
Aug 29 21:31:43 <jasta> my area of interest is...different ;)
Aug 29 21:31:53 <jasta> i'm no good at designing or implementing UIs, it seems.
Aug 29 21:32:37 <jasta> i prefer systems architecture and optimization, especially with regard to network programming.
Aug 29 22:04:36 * umdk1d3 wonders
Aug 29 22:05:05 <umdk1d3> if there is a getChild() that will find a child at x,y coords
Aug 29 22:05:54 <umdk1d3> similar to hit-testing
Aug 29 22:06:21 <umdk1d3> easy enough to iteratre through all children if there isnt a method there
Aug 29 22:06:49 <umdk1d3>  public boolean getChildVisibleRect(View child, Rect r, Point offset)   <--  looks interesting, but no docs
Aug 29 22:12:45 <umdk1d3> hmm and it might be even harder for a ListView
Aug 29 22:12:54 <umdk1d3> maybe im just interested in asking the adapter for its object
Aug 29 22:15:45 <umdk1d3> hmm
Aug 29 22:16:08 <umdk1d3> maybe i could let the MotionEvent trickle down the tree with a custom getAction()
Aug 29 22:16:47 <umdk1d3> oh wait, but it wouldnt get all the way to the final ListView child item
Aug 29 22:16:54 <umdk1d3> if it triggers the scroll before then
Aug 29 22:18:23 <umdk1d3> AHA!    public int pointToPosition(int x, int y)
Aug 29 22:19:40 <umdk1d3> hmm does position or rowid relate back to the adapter?
Aug 29 22:23:10 <umdk1d3> position goes back to the adapter  ;)
Aug 29 22:23:35 * umdk1d3 dances around room
Aug 29 22:40:34 <umdk1d3> hmm how to make a listview refresh one of its children without setAdapter()'ing the whole lsit
Aug 29 22:43:19 <umdk1d3> invalidate() doesnt work, but invalidateViews() does
Aug 29 22:43:35 <umdk1d3> it makes all the list items flash as it redraws tho  :/
Aug 29 22:48:08 <umdk1d3> if only i had access to the internal cached views in the ListView
Aug 29 22:48:16 <umdk1d3> so i could pick a specific one and .invalidate() it
Aug 29 22:57:28 <yxz97> Hello, !
Aug 29 22:57:58 <yxz97> How can an Image resource be included in an Android project in Eclipse ?
Aug 29 23:00:32 <umdk1d3> you can right click on the res/drawable folder in your project and import
Aug 29 23:00:44 <umdk1d3> then it will be added to R.drawable.(filename) automatically
Aug 29 23:00:57 <umdk1d3> *click import, then import from filesystem
Aug 29 23:01:58 <yxz97> umdk1d3, You aim good ;)
Aug 29 23:03:40 <yxz97> however which option choose to import ?
Aug 29 23:04:05 <yxz97> I cannot import a single picture file ?
Aug 29 23:04:08 <yxz97> an image ?
Aug 29 23:04:34 <umdk1d3> import:  general/file system
Aug 29 23:04:43 <umdk1d3> then select a folder on your computer where the image is
Aug 29 23:04:52 <umdk1d3> then checkbox that specific image and next/finish to import it
Aug 29 23:05:04 <xavd> just drag and drop the file into the res/drawable folder of your poject, that's the easiest way
Aug 29 23:05:30 <umdk1d3> oh lol i suppose that might work too
Aug 29 23:05:37 <xavd> it will *copy* the file into the folder, it won't simply link to it
Aug 29 23:05:43 <umdk1d3> you mac people and dragging and dropping everything  :P
Aug 29 23:05:47 <xavd> :)
Aug 29 23:06:29 <yxz97> I'm linux guy
Aug 29 23:06:41 <yxz97> sorry be careful :-|
Aug 29 23:06:52 <yxz97> sorry be careful ;-)
Aug 29 23:06:57 <yxz97> sorry be careful ;-(
Aug 29 23:07:00 <xavd> well drag and drop should work anyway
Aug 29 23:07:49 <yxz97> I made a new File, and lynk to an existence file, and the new entry in R.java was created, however I see anlittle arrow in the tree for my new image.
Aug 29 23:08:15 <yxz97> where is taken the hex number how is compute ?
Aug 29 23:09:09 <xavd> the number is just computed automatically by aapt during the build process. It just allows android to map the R.drawable.myimage value to the actual image bundled in the application package
Aug 29 23:10:13 <yxz97> just is an ID, simple ?
Aug 29 23:10:27 <yxz97> has anysense, the file content, or filename ??
Aug 29 23:10:43 <yxz97> or file format, even ?
Aug 29 23:11:15 <xavd> the filename is used to compute the constant name, but file content has no impact
Aug 29 23:11:42 <yxz97> xavd, ok!
Aug 29 23:11:59 <yxz97> can I save my emulator state as with Windows Mobile Emulators ?
Aug 29 23:12:18 <xavd> no
Aug 29 23:12:34 <yxz97> :-(
Aug 29 23:13:02 <xavd> note that you can keep your emulator running, and just push new version of the app (just launch the app from eclipse)
Aug 29 23:13:09 <yxz97> Hope get here to Costa Rica, the new TMobile G1 with google OS quick ;-)
Aug 29 23:13:10 <xavd> it'll replace the previous version and launch the new one
Aug 29 23:13:25 <yxz97> ok..
Aug 29 23:14:06 <yxz97> apps in android, platform can be killed ? or Finished, they have some kind or process life cycle ?
Aug 29 23:14:26 <jasta> yxz97: see the documentation for the Activity class
Aug 29 23:14:45 <xavd> as a user you don't explicitly quit an app. as a developer if you want to kill it, use the DDMS perspetive in eclipse and you can kill them
Aug 29 23:15:00 <xavd> but yeah read the documentation on Activity life cycle. Lots of info in there
Aug 29 23:15:31 <yxz97> is possible integrate /android/docs with Eclipse ?
Aug 29 23:15:43 <yxz97> Would be nice have, at the hand, for quick review..
Aug 29 23:16:00 <yxz97> faster, moreover...
Aug 29 23:16:01 <xavd> javadoc for classes/methods should be in eclipse.
Aug 29 23:16:23 <xavd> the rest is not integrated that true
Aug 29 23:16:43 <xavd> although the custom editors have some links to parts of the docs
Aug 29 23:17:22 <yxz97> I'm using Eclipse..I like..I think is about the better choice...
Aug 29 23:17:51 <yxz97> I liked netbeans, however, like Eclipse has a community far long than NetBeansIDE
Aug 29 23:18:20 <yxz97> Also, android can just be use in Eclipse...so..no option..then.
Aug 29 23:19:48 <xavd> well you could use the ant script and import it in a NetBeans project
Aug 29 23:19:58 <xavd> but we are only providing full support for Eclipse at this point
Aug 29 23:21:11 <yxz97> Who is we ? xavd are you official Android creator ?
Aug 29 23:21:41 <yxz97> Who are we ? xavd are you official Android architect from google ?
Aug 29 23:21:51 <xavd> I'm a google employee yes
Aug 29 23:22:06 <yxz97> hehe, cool.
Aug 29 23:22:16 <jasta> there are a lot of 'em about, you know
Aug 29 23:22:28 <Dougie187> yeah i am always surprised when someone says they work for google.
Aug 29 23:22:29 <yxz97> I would work there.
Aug 29 23:24:37 <jasta> romainguy_: PhotostreamActivity.java:289, why is that not a break there?
Aug 29 23:24:44 <yxz97> have a good paid ?
Aug 29 23:25:32 <yxz97> seems like is a great enviroment to relax and programming at the same time!, counter parts!
Aug 29 23:25:52 <jasta> it's always greener, yxz97.
Aug 29 23:26:50 <yxz97> jasta, Do you too ?
Aug 29 23:26:54 <jasta> no
Aug 29 23:27:13 <yxz97> jasta, What do you mean, a good nature too ?
Aug 29 23:27:23 <cbeust> Just look at the whoinfo, there are quite a few of us working at google in this channel
Aug 29 23:27:31 <jasta> but i still think you should be careful idealizing something you don't know about :)
Aug 29 23:27:33 <yxz97> Because here the nature is soo good!
Aug 29 23:27:56 <jasta> yxz97: I was paraphrasing an expression, "the grass is always greener on the other side."
Aug 29 23:28:13 <yxz97> jasta, and that what means ???
Aug 29 23:28:22 <Dougie187> basically you always want the other thing.
Aug 29 23:28:35 <jasta> yxz97: basically it means you want what you don't have, but it may not necessarily be better.
Aug 29 23:28:53 <yxz97> we are never satisfied, soo...I think that is the translation..
Aug 29 23:29:11 <jasta> For instance, I'm sure Android team members are not getting a lot of sleep these days.
Aug 29 23:29:17 <yxz97> human behavior!
Aug 29 23:29:36 <yxz97> hehehe, but always there is a reward!
Aug 29 23:29:53 <jasta> Uhm, no.
Aug 29 23:29:59 <yxz97> deadlines, deadlines, make us became mad!
Aug 29 23:30:01 <Dougie187> nothing more then pay.
Aug 29 23:30:19 <jasta> You're missing the point of the saying, but that's fine.  I'm going back to coding :)
Aug 29 23:30:30 <yxz97> ("All work and no fun makes a jack a dull boy") ... ... ...
Aug 29 23:31:06 <yxz97> bye luck guys I'm here without a job!
Aug 29 23:31:13 <yxz97> I need program!
Aug 29 23:31:53 <dmoffett> yxz97 you don't lack enthusiasm.
Aug 29 23:32:04 <dmoffett> That counts for something.
Aug 29 23:32:43 <yxz97> dmoffett, yes, that's our light that keep us always looking for something more to give and do :D
Aug 29 23:33:05 <dmoffett> Where are you from yxz97?
Aug 29 23:33:13 <yxz97> I hope get a new job soon,
Aug 29 23:33:15 <yxz97> Costa Rica
Aug 29 23:33:38 <dmoffett> Optimistic as well.
Aug 29 23:33:55 <yxz97> I was developing for Windows Mobile, and I liked the developing for Mobile devices, is interesting and edge technology too..
Aug 29 23:33:59 <dmoffett> I can't help you though.  I need to much sleep to work for google.
Aug 29 23:34:14 <plusminus_> you know a easy replacement for MapView's OnLongPressListener ?
Aug 29 23:34:30 <yxz97> But I prefer open source technology...
Aug 29 23:34:32 <romainguy_> umdk1d3: hmm how to make a listview refresh one of its children without setAdapter()'ing the whole lsit << just call getChildAt()
Aug 29 23:35:01 <yxz97> hehe, I can make the effort!
Aug 29 23:35:40 <dmoffett> romainguy has been on since like 3:00am MDT.  I think he must camp out at his desk.
Aug 29 23:35:57 <romainguy_> I have several computers connected
Aug 29 23:36:47 <romainguy_> jasta: er yes, this should be a break
Aug 29 23:37:09 <jasta> umdk1d3: i have a strategy you may find useful for applying UI state to a listview's children.  you should note that romain does not agree that it is the correct approach in general, though.
Aug 29 23:37:18 <jasta> romainguy_: what?
Aug 29 23:37:21 <yxz97> I be back in some time..
Aug 29 23:37:23 <yxz97> bye
Aug 29 23:37:24 <romainguy_> jasta: romainguy_: PhotostreamActivity.java:289, why is that not a break there?
Aug 29 23:37:34 <plusminus_> romainguy_ what should be MapView's OnLongPressListener be replaced with ?
Aug 29 23:37:36 <jasta> oh, yes.  i wondered about that.
Aug 29 23:37:49 <romainguy_> plusminus_: with the one in View?
Aug 29 23:37:57 <romainguy_> jasta: late night hacking :)
Aug 29 23:38:18 <plusminus_> romainguy_ myMapView.setOnLongPressListenr(new ...)
Aug 29 23:38:22 <plusminus_> its gone
Aug 29 23:38:47 <dmoffett> romainguy: I think you use a Mac Pro right?  Have you tried using iSight for audio input over firewire for the emulator?  Or what do you use for audio input to emulator?
Aug 29 23:39:00 <romainguy_> dmoffett: I don't use audio input
Aug 29 23:39:04 <romainguy_> and I haven't used the emulator in months
Aug 29 23:39:17 <dmoffett> rub it in why don't you.  :-)
Aug 29 23:39:37 <romainguy_> plusminus_: it's called onLongClickListener in View
Aug 29 23:39:50 <plusminus_> it got no x/y coords
Aug 29 23:40:29 <plusminus_> so is the workaround with a Overlay the ony way ?
Aug 29 23:42:26 <plusminus_> -ony + only
Aug 29 23:43:56 <plusminus_> .. :(
Aug 29 23:44:44 <xavd> plusminus_: did you try posting on the groups? somehow with better knowledge of the MapView api might know
Aug 30 00:05:41 <umdk1d3> aww jasta you left me hanging  :P
Aug 30 00:06:04 <jasta> what?
Aug 30 00:06:05 * umdk1d3 wonders if getChildAt() references from the rowid instead of adapter position
Aug 30 00:06:18 <jasta> see, this is the problem i believe i solved
Aug 30 00:06:23 <umdk1d3> with the applying-state-to-listview-children
Aug 30 00:06:28 <jasta> getChildAt refers to the visible position
Aug 30 00:06:38 <umdk1d3> ahh cool
Aug 30 00:06:39 <jasta> the 0th child of a listview is the top-most that a user can see
Aug 30 00:06:47 <jasta> but check this out
Aug 30 00:07:03 <umdk1d3> which is fine, because i can get that from pointToRowid()
Aug 30 00:07:08 <jasta> again i do want to caution you that romain thinks my strategy is wrong
Aug 30 00:07:15 * umdk1d3 listens
Aug 30 00:07:48 <jasta> in many of my applications i have the need to apply UI statefulness to row values on certain conditions from a service or the user's interaction
Aug 30 00:08:18 <jasta> typically all i ahve to go on is the backing cursor's id (_ID column), so i developed a strategy for efficiently injecting this state data into the list
Aug 30 00:08:28 <jasta> preserving it if the user scrolls around, too.
Aug 30 00:08:36 <romainguy_> umdk1d3: what exactly are you trying to do?
Aug 30 00:08:53 <jasta> the generalized solution i have is here:
Aug 30 00:08:56 <jasta> http://code.google.com/p/five/source/browse/trunk/five-client/src/org/devtcg/five/widget/StatefulListView.java
Aug 30 00:09:06 <umdk1d3> romainguy_: exactly what jasta is describing--ive updated the state of a cursor backing a listview, and trying to update just the effected child item
Aug 30 00:09:20 <romainguy_> do you know the position of the item to update?
Aug 30 00:09:28 <jasta> umdk1d3: do realize that my strategy is for stateful data *NOT* backed by the cursor.
Aug 30 00:09:31 <umdk1d3> yep, both rowid and adapter position
Aug 30 00:09:40 <romainguy_> if you have the position you can use getChildAt()
Aug 30 00:09:50 <romainguy_> getFirstVisiblePosition() will help you
Aug 30 00:09:55 <jasta> umdk1d3: how the hell do you know the adapter position?
Aug 30 00:10:01 <umdk1d3> ooh!!!
Aug 30 00:10:07 <romainguy_> if you do positionofitemtoupdate - getFirstVisiblePosition(), that will give you the index of the child on screen
Aug 30 00:10:10 <umdk1d3> int position = list.pointToPosition((int)downx, (int)downy);
Aug 30 00:10:11 <umdk1d3> =D
Aug 30 00:10:27 <umdk1d3> and thats the adapter position
Aug 30 00:10:30 <jasta> umdk1d3: my strategy, by the way, is exclusively for when you don't know the adapter position.
Aug 30 00:10:32 <umdk1d3> which in my case is cursor-backed
Aug 30 00:10:45 <romainguy_> (updated Photostream on the SVN)
Aug 30 00:11:08 <umdk1d3> index on screen is  pointToRowid though right?
Aug 30 00:11:13 <jasta> as in, let's say you have a service which can randomly flag "row with id <X> just began foobaring."  that's what my StatefulListView is for.
Aug 30 00:11:48 <romainguy_> umdk1d3: no
Aug 30 00:11:51 <jasta> romainguy_: i like the new logo.  did you draw that (or the old one)?
Aug 30 00:11:56 <romainguy_> I drew the old one
Aug 30 00:12:02 <romainguy_> this one comes from one of our designers
Aug 30 00:12:08 <romainguy_> I drew everything else though ^^
Aug 30 00:12:13 <jasta> must be nice ;)
Aug 30 00:12:33 <romainguy_> umdk1d3: index on screen = position - getFirstVisiblePosition()
Aug 30 00:12:41 <umdk1d3> okay cool, good to know
Aug 30 00:12:52 <umdk1d3> saved me trouble of messing with pointToRow  ;)
Aug 30 00:13:14 <umdk1d3> btw @ romainguy_ wrapping the ListView is working perfectly  ;)
Aug 30 00:13:17 <romainguy_> :)
Aug 30 00:14:14 <jasta> btw, i implemented onDetachedFromWindow() :)
Aug 30 00:14:40 <romainguy_> good :)
Aug 30 00:15:33 <umdk1d3> hmm
Aug 30 00:15:42 <umdk1d3> it still has a tendancy to trigger the scrolling ListView
Aug 30 00:15:56 <jasta> romainguy_: this UserTask abstraction you have here will come in handy in other areas of Five :)
Aug 30 00:16:24 <romainguy_> umdk1d3: what gestures are you capturing?
Aug 30 00:16:25 <jasta> specifically, when i deal with Last.fm
Aug 30 00:16:26 <umdk1d3> is there some way i could be using the wrappers onInterceptTouchEvent() to prevent the underlying ListView from triggering a scroll with such sensitivity
Aug 30 00:16:37 <romainguy_> ListView is not very sensitive
Aug 30 00:16:43 <umdk1d3> gesture of wiping from left->right over a list item
Aug 30 00:16:45 <romainguy_> it triggers a scroll if you move by 16 pixels or something like this
Aug 30 00:16:53 <jasta> umdk1d3: ohh, i actually really want to implement this too!
Aug 30 00:16:59 <umdk1d3> :)
Aug 30 00:17:06 <jasta> let me know if you get a good general implementation
Aug 30 00:17:09 <umdk1d3> it works great when your deliberate about it
Aug 30 00:17:13 <romainguy_> umdk1d3: what you should do is:
Aug 30 00:17:18 <jasta> i want Five to let you enqueue songs by swiping left to right
Aug 30 00:17:33 <umdk1d3> ooh nice @ jasta    im using it to cross items off a list
Aug 30 00:17:33 <romainguy_> if the user moves by ViewConfig.getTouchSlop() pixels horizontally, capture all events
Aug 30 00:17:41 <romainguy_> so that the user cannot do a vertical scroll
Aug 30 00:17:45 <umdk1d3> aha!
Aug 30 00:17:52 <romainguy_> that's how we do it everywhere in our apps and framework
Aug 30 00:18:05 <romainguy_> ListView will try to scroll vertically if the user moves by getTouchSlop()
Aug 30 00:19:15 <jasta> umdk1d3: really, ping me when you get this working :)
Aug 30 00:19:30 <umdk1d3> kk  :)
Aug 30 00:19:57 <umdk1d3> its slightly awkward right now because im having to wrap the ListView in an outside object (FrameLayout right now)
Aug 30 00:19:58 <romainguy_> btw, for 1.1 (hopefully) we plan on extracting the drag and drop facilities we wrote for Home and move them to the framework
Aug 30 00:20:08 <umdk1d3> to capture events before they get to the listview
Aug 30 00:20:09 <romainguy_> umdk1d3: it's actually useful because you can reuse the object
Aug 30 00:20:17 <romainguy_> that's how we did it in Home to do drag and drop
Aug 30 00:20:20 <jasta> romainguy_: gesture events would be pretty nice abstracted out, i'd think
Aug 30 00:20:21 <romainguy_> we have a <DragLayer/>
Aug 30 00:20:24 <umdk1d3> ooh!
Aug 30 00:20:27 <romainguy_> jasta: GestureDetector
Aug 30 00:20:33 <jasta> ohh!
Aug 30 00:20:43 <jasta> is this new?
Aug 30 00:20:43 <romainguy_> it was already in M5 I think
Aug 30 00:20:45 <romainguy_> no
Aug 30 00:20:51 <umdk1d3> romainguy_: i had issues with the onFling, it wasnt grabbing them quickly enouygh
Aug 30 00:20:53 <jasta> i never knew about this ;)
Aug 30 00:21:02 <umdk1d3> so it wouldnt trigger all the time
Aug 30 00:21:04 <romainguy_> basically you override onInterceptTouchEvent/onTouchEvent and forward the vents to GestureDetector
Aug 30 00:21:20 <umdk1d3> but in my case people arent "flinging" the item to cross it out
Aug 30 00:21:27 <romainguy_> umdk1d3: weird, that's what we use ourselves
Aug 30 00:21:51 <umdk1d3> so right now im just comparing deltaX/deltaY
Aug 30 00:22:01 <umdk1d3> because i dont really need velocity info
Aug 30 00:22:16 <romainguy_> for flinging you need it
Aug 30 00:22:19 <romainguy_> see ViewConfig
Aug 30 00:22:23 <romainguy_> we have a minimum velocity
Aug 30 00:22:28 <romainguy_> we use this to trigger flings
Aug 30 00:22:29 <umdk1d3> aha!
Aug 30 00:22:39 <umdk1d3> lol you are awesome to have around btw  ;)
Aug 30 00:22:50 <umdk1d3> all these internal secrets
Aug 30 00:23:10 <jasta> agreed :)
Aug 30 00:23:34 <umdk1d3> ooh speaking of which, why isnt the activity slide-in-from-right animation turned on by default?  :(
Aug 30 00:24:04 <umdk1d3> the one that ppl have to enable in dev tools manually
Aug 30 00:24:19 <romainguy_> it makes apps switching faster without it
Aug 30 00:24:23 <umdk1d3> aww
Aug 30 00:24:28 <umdk1d3> is there a per-app way to turn it on?
Aug 30 00:25:55 <romainguy_> apps can disable them
Aug 30 00:26:00 <romainguy_> and can probably enable them
Aug 30 00:27:57 * umdk1d3 wonders how, or does it need that special permission to change devicewide?
Aug 30 00:28:36 <romainguy_> we have an app on the Market place that enables them
Aug 30 00:28:46 <romainguy_> I guess it just requires the permission to write the settings
Aug 30 00:29:44 <umdk1d3> ouch  :/
Aug 30 00:47:29 <snadge> why arm? :P
Aug 30 00:55:24 <tomgibara> romainguy_: A fairly repoducible testcase: http://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=843
Aug 30 00:56:09 <romainguy_> I sent it to our 2D guy
Aug 30 00:56:37 <tomgibara> Thanks
Aug 30 00:56:51 <romainguy_> thanks for finding the bug and coming up with a test case
Aug 30 00:56:52 <romainguy_> that's very useful
Aug 30 01:00:20 <tomgibara> romainguy_: np: not thrilling work, but I know how useful it is.
Aug 30 01:10:06 <umdk1d3> OH YES  =D
Aug 30 01:10:18 <umdk1d3> crossing items works flawlessly now  ^.^
Aug 30 01:10:24 <umdk1d3> no more accidental scrolling
Aug 30 01:15:58 <romainguy> :p
Aug 30 01:22:10 <snadge> i wonder if obama will have an android based phone when he becomes president ;)
Aug 30 01:29:32 <yxz97> hi!
Aug 30 01:29:42 <yxz97> I'm getting an rare error message: UnsupportedOperation STUB NEEDED
Aug 30 01:29:56 <yxz97> editing an splash screen
Aug 30 01:30:38 <umdk1d3> is there a 9-patch handy for the fading-alpha-bar used at top/bottom of listviews during scroll?
Aug 30 01:31:31 <romainguy> it's not a 9 patch
Aug 30 01:31:37 <romainguy> it's buit in View
Aug 30 01:31:43 <romainguy> just enable the fading edges
Aug 30 01:37:58 <umdk1d3> oh ic
Aug 30 01:38:09 <umdk1d3> i was looking for the drawable if it was there, but i can go make my own
Aug 30 01:38:58 <romainguy> there's no drawable
Aug 30 01:39:04 <romainguy> just enable the fading edges
Aug 30 01:39:10 <romainguy> it's more complicated than using a drawable
Aug 30 01:39:28 <umdk1d3> true, because it changes size as you start scrolling
Aug 30 01:39:48 <romainguy> no
Aug 30 01:39:50 <romainguy> not because of that
Aug 30 01:40:07 <romainguy> because if you had a picture in your background, for instance, it would not work :)
Aug 30 01:40:14 <romainguy> our version works no matter what the background is
Aug 30 01:40:19 <umdk1d3> ahh ic
Aug 30 01:40:32 <umdk1d3> im looking at overlaying a text hint at the bottom of the window
Aug 30 01:40:45 <umdk1d3> and just having a fade-out background as it goes up behind the text
Aug 30 01:40:57 * umdk1d3 made gradient in gimp
Aug 30 01:41:22 <romainguy> just use the fading edge from View
Aug 30 01:41:40 <umdk1d3> oh?  /me looks closer
Aug 30 01:50:56 * umdk1d3 reverts to using a toast to help user
Aug 30 01:57:33 <umdk1d3> hmm
Aug 30 01:57:46 * umdk1d3 wonders how to make magic toasts with like bubble callouts
Aug 30 02:20:28 <romainguy> Toast.makeText().show()
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Sat Aug 30 02:59:57 2008