**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Sep 15 02:59:57 2008
Sep 15 12:37:24 <Dougie187> looks like RIM passed up WinMO in sales this last year.
Sep 15 13:35:22 <bravvve> hi,i cant run applications with eclipse
Sep 15 13:38:04 <tethridge> is T-mobile selling their android phone yet?
Sep 15 13:39:40 <Dougie187> did you go to tmobile.com?
Sep 15 13:39:51 <tethridge> yeah, didn't see it
Sep 15 13:39:56 <Dougie187> then probably not.
Sep 15 13:39:56 <tethridge> is it there?
Sep 15 13:40:13 <Dougie187> i doubt it.
Sep 15 13:40:22 <Dougie187> especially if you went to the site, and didn't see it.
Sep 15 13:40:37 <tethridge> I thought it was supposed to be on for sale starting the 13th
Sep 15 13:40:47 <tethridge> guess that info was wrong
Sep 15 13:41:08 <Dougie187> i heard october, but ionno
Sep 15 13:41:24 <Dougie187> October 13th, afaik
Sep 15 13:41:30 <Dougie187> we will see though.
Sep 15 13:41:40 <bravvve> eclipse do not compile HelloAndroid
Sep 15 13:42:06 <Dougie187> what do you mean?
Sep 15 13:43:02 <Dougie187> bravvve: eclipse does compile hello android. What issue are you running into?
Sep 15 13:43:27 <bravvve> debian etch,java sun 6
Sep 15 13:43:33 <Dougie187> ok
Sep 15 13:43:40 <Dougie187> so whats happening?
Sep 15 13:43:44 <bravvve> and newer android
Sep 15 13:43:53 <Dougie187> ...
Sep 15 13:44:02 <bravvve> 9.0beta
Sep 15 13:44:10 <Dougie187> 0.9 beta you mean.
Sep 15 13:44:19 <bravvve> pluing installed as well..
Sep 15 13:44:27 <Dougie187> what version of eclipse?
Sep 15 13:44:30 <Dougie187> 3.3?
Sep 15 13:44:31 <Dougie187> 3.4?
Sep 15 13:44:37 <bravvve> it seams that apk is not crated
Sep 15 13:44:40 <bravvve> 3.4
Sep 15 13:44:58 <Dougie187> you specified the sdk path in eclipse
Sep 15 13:44:59 <Dougie187> ?
Sep 15 13:45:42 <bravvve> windows>preference>android>browse
Sep 15 13:45:45 <bravvve> yes
Sep 15 13:45:58 <bravvve> http://www.anddev.org/could_not_fined_apk_file-t2834.html
Sep 15 13:46:16 <Dougie187> i know.
Sep 15 13:46:21 <Dougie187> people run into that sometimes.
Sep 15 13:46:24 <Dougie187> but it does work.
Sep 15 13:46:30 <Dougie187> i have it running fine right now actually.
Sep 15 13:46:41 <bravvve> under debian?
Sep 15 13:46:46 <Dougie187> ubuntu.
Sep 15 13:46:50 <Dougie187> but thats debian basically.
Sep 15 13:47:00 <bravvve> the bin file is impty
Sep 15 13:47:04 <Dougie187> and i know people who have run it under debian too
Sep 15 13:47:08 <Dougie187> so its not the code.
Sep 15 13:47:24 <Dougie187> what bin file?
Sep 15 13:47:55 <bravvve> is there relation with ant?
Sep 15 13:49:27 <yakischloba> hey there Dougie187
Sep 15 13:49:30 <Dougie187> hey yakischloba
Sep 15 13:49:34 <yakischloba> hows it goin bud
Sep 15 13:49:39 <Dougie187> pretty good.
Sep 15 13:49:52 <Dougie187> trying to teach this guy how to use eclipse and the sdk to run hello android.
Sep 15 13:49:54 <Dougie187> how bout you?
Sep 15 13:50:20 <yakischloba> hmm aight. I have to wake up super early for my job now...having a hard time getting used to it. bleary eyed.
Sep 15 13:50:31 <yakischloba> romain already tried to help this chap yesterday
Sep 15 13:50:33 <Dougie187> heh that sucks.
Sep 15 13:50:37 <Dougie187> yeah i know.
Sep 15 13:50:42 <Dougie187> i don't know what romain did though.
Sep 15 13:51:04 <yakischloba> not much. you can only help someone so much who doesn't seem to understand what they're doing
Sep 15 13:51:09 <Dougie187> yeah
Sep 15 13:51:16 <Dougie187> i was going to say, it doesn't seem like he likes to listen.
Sep 15 13:51:22 <yakischloba> ehh its OK, i get off at 3pm so thats nice
Sep 15 13:51:27 <Dougie187> that is nice.
Sep 15 13:51:30 <Dougie187> beat rush hour too
Sep 15 13:51:34 <yakischloba> have you started an app yet?
Sep 15 13:51:38 <Dougie187> lol nope.
Sep 15 13:51:40 <yakischloba> hehe
Sep 15 13:51:44 <Dougie187> just played around with some of the examples.
Sep 15 13:51:49 <Dougie187> at some point i will.
Sep 15 13:51:55 <Dougie187> but my research is a tad more importatnt.
Sep 15 13:51:56 <yakischloba> I just restarted mine this weekend after not touching it for a couple months
Sep 15 13:51:57 <Dougie187> important*
Sep 15 13:52:05 <bravvve> Dougie187:maby ur friend know?
Sep 15 13:52:14 <yakischloba> bravvve: no
Sep 15 13:52:19 <Dougie187> bravvve: my bet, is you don't have something configured right.
Sep 15 13:52:27 <Dougie187> something between the sdk and eclipse.
Sep 15 13:52:49 <bravvve> Dougie187:like what?
Sep 15 13:52:56 <Dougie187> go through the tutorials for install the plugin and doing the code about 5 more times.
Sep 15 13:53:04 <Dougie187> if it doesn't work, come back and someone will help you
Sep 15 13:53:10 <Dougie187> installing*
Sep 15 13:53:44 <bravvve> Dougie187:i v done it 50 times:)
Sep 15 13:53:49 <Dougie187> are you enjoying your new job yakischloba
Sep 15 13:54:11 <yakischloba> yeah its OK
Sep 15 13:54:34 <Dougie187> what do you get to do?
Sep 15 13:54:57 <yakischloba> hopefully I'll move up soon. I'm having to do a lot of zZz bs work. I'm currently the 'lowest' guy at my location, but one new guy is starting this week and another next week, so that should free up most of my time to work on more interesting things
Sep 15 13:55:26 <Dougie187> that is always a good thing.
Sep 15 13:55:43 <yakischloba> right now im just being a ticket jockey, which is annoying
Sep 15 13:56:00 <Dougie187> a ticket jockey eh?
Sep 15 13:56:10 <yakischloba> I was working on some coding projects and other cool stuff until these other 2 guys left, then I had to pick up what they were doing until these new guys start
Sep 15 13:56:18 <yakischloba> yeah. Support for the NOC basically
Sep 15 13:57:04 <Dougie187> cool
Sep 15 13:57:06 <Dougie187> sounds like fun
Sep 15 13:57:19 <yakischloba> heh. its fine when there aren't any big problems going on
Sep 15 13:57:33 <bravvve> :-D
Sep 15 13:57:34 <Dougie187> yeah
Sep 15 13:57:36 <Dougie187> as with everything
Sep 15 13:57:47 <yakischloba> a lot of it is actually pretty interesting work. it just sucks when some big server goes down and I have to answer like 50 tickets about the same problem
Sep 15 13:58:05 <Dougie187> lol
Sep 15 13:58:16 <Dougie187> that is something that sucks at most admin jobs though
Sep 15 13:58:22 <yakischloba> yup
Sep 15 13:58:33 <yakischloba> w/e, hopefully I can work my way away from it soon enough
Sep 15 13:59:12 <Dougie187> yeah
Sep 15 14:00:13 <yakischloba> (I sure am complaining a lot for my 4th week on the job ;) )
Sep 15 14:00:27 <bravvve> Dougie187:are u using eclipse?
Sep 15 14:00:43 <Dougie187> bravvve: yes
Sep 15 14:01:00 <bravvve> Dougie187: whitch one?
Sep 15 14:01:08 <Dougie187> eh yakischloba, i think people find things to hate about their jobs in 3 days.
Sep 15 14:01:10 <Dougie187> bravvve: 3.4
Sep 15 14:01:32 <bravvve> and adk?
Sep 15 14:01:34 <yakischloba> Dougie187: yup
Sep 15 14:01:35 <Dougie187> yes
Sep 15 14:03:46 <bravvve> Dougie187: sdk
Sep 15 14:03:46 <bravvve> Dougie187: sdk?
Sep 15 14:04:57 <Dougie187> bravvve: thats why i say, i think it has something to do with the way you configured it.
Sep 15 14:04:58 <Dougie187> yakischloba: when you move up, do you get to go in later?
Sep 15 14:05:14 <Dougie187> bravvve: what do you mean? SDK version? then 0.9
Sep 15 14:05:27 <yakischloba> Dougie187: heh maybe. I might be inclined to keep this schedule if I can get used to it. I really like having the afternoon
Sep 15 14:05:42 <Dougie187> yeah, and the non-rush hour drive.
Sep 15 14:06:06 <bravvve>  Dougie187: i v configured it step by step like the google's tutoriel
Sep 15 14:06:33 <Dougie187> lol, no offense, but if you configured it by typing stuff in, i doubt its configured right based on how you type in here.
Sep 15 14:06:48 <Dougie187> either way.
Sep 15 14:06:55 <Dougie187> what does it say for your SDK path?
Sep 15 14:07:22 <bravvve> SDK path???
Sep 15 14:07:32 <Dougie187> yeah.
Sep 15 14:07:39 <yakischloba> bravvve: I recommend you give up on the notion of software development
Sep 15 14:07:40 <Dougie187> in Window->Preferences->Android
Sep 15 14:07:43 <Dougie187> lol
Sep 15 14:08:26 <bravvve> sdk location ,no problem with this
Sep 15 14:09:50 <Dougie187> what do you have it set to?
Sep 15 14:10:31 <bravvve> in my /home/user/eclipse/android
Sep 15 14:11:13 <Dougie187> what do you get if you do a "ls /home/user/eclipse/android"?
Sep 15 14:12:14 <bravvve>  Dougie187: android.jar  docs  documentation.html  LICENSE.txt  RELEASE_NOTES.txt  samples  tools
Sep 15 14:12:59 <Dougie187> well, i don't know what to tell you.
Sep 15 14:13:06 <Dougie187> everything works for me and 90% of this room.
Sep 15 14:13:15 <Dougie187> or more then 90%...
Sep 15 14:14:46 <bravvve>  Dougie187: when creating project i have "error generating final archive:null"
Sep 15 14:15:23 <Dougie187> sounds like something is wrong to me.
Sep 15 14:17:42 <bravvve> generic adt problem
Sep 15 14:19:30 <tric> bravvve: whats your default jdk and javac and so on in /etc/alternatives? maybe openjdk?
Sep 15 14:20:57 <tric> you need to use the sun sdk. your key in ~/.android is prolly broken now. some google guy helped me resolving this by calling keytool directly
Sep 15 14:21:15 <tric> but sorry, i cannot remember. so maybe try with a clean ~/.android
Sep 15 14:22:37 <bravvve> update-alternatives --config java
Sep 15 14:22:37 <bravvve>  /usr/lib/jvm/java-6-sun/jre/bin/java
Sep 15 14:23:05 <tric> javac and keytool are more important afaik
Sep 15 14:40:52 <fariseo> give me one of these with android http://www.htc.com/www/product.aspx?id=64790
Sep 15 14:40:54 <fariseo> now!
Sep 15 14:41:39 <Dougie187> i think the answer to your demand is... no
Sep 15 14:41:45 <Dougie187> but it would be cool
Sep 15 14:42:09 <fariseo> no, but wait
Sep 15 14:42:10 <fariseo> or
Sep 15 14:42:15 <fariseo> no, never
Sep 15 14:42:37 <Dougie187> no
Sep 15 14:42:42 <Dougie187> possibly not never.
Sep 15 14:42:44 <Dougie187> but we will see
Sep 15 14:42:57 <Dougie187> someone might have a way to get android on one of those suckers.
Sep 15 14:43:21 <bravvve>  Dougie187:what about keytool?
Sep 15 14:43:34 <Dougie187> bravvve: ionno
Sep 15 14:43:36 <Dougie187> google it.
Sep 15 14:43:45 <bravvve> ok
Sep 15 14:44:17 <bravvve> Dougie187:i v cleaned .android
Sep 15 14:44:27 <Dougie187> ok.
Sep 15 14:44:33 <Dougie187> i wasn't the one who told you to do that though.
Sep 15 14:45:32 <bravvve> Dougie187: con u tell me what ur contain?
Sep 15 14:45:40 <Dougie187> what?
Sep 15 14:46:03 <fariseo> what does 'GPS and A-GPS ready' mean
Sep 15 14:46:13 <Dougie187> google it.
Sep 15 14:46:14 <fariseo> it has a built.in GPS or not?
Sep 15 14:46:17 <Dougie187> or look it up on wikipedia.
Sep 15 14:49:42 <tric> bravvve: try to rebuild your app in eclipse, it should recreate .android. maybe cleaning your sig key in .android is enough. by using openjdk you fucked up your build enviroment.
Sep 15 14:50:45 <bravvve> ok
Sep 15 14:52:49 <tric> debian sucks with using openjdk as default.
Sep 15 14:53:58 <umdk1d3> fariseo: AGPS is assisted GPS, which means it tries guessing/triangulating your location from nearby GSM cell towers
Sep 15 14:54:26 <umdk1d3> it uses much less power than a full GPS chipset, and is reasonably accurate
Sep 15 14:55:31 <umdk1d3> if your phone has both, it might offer an option to turn of the full GPS and fallback to AGPS when you want to save power
Sep 15 14:56:38 <fariseo> i know what it is, i just didnt now if that htc HD has it or not
Sep 15 15:00:52 <Dougie187> good morning morrildl
Sep 15 15:16:45 <morrildl> morning Dougie187
Sep 15 15:16:58 <Dougie187> have a good weekend?
Sep 15 15:24:49 <morrildl> Dougie187: yup... how about you?
Sep 15 15:25:03 <Dougie187> yeah it was pretty good.
Sep 15 16:03:24 <zhobbs> hmmmm: http://androidcommunity.com/forums/showthread.php?t=513
Sep 15 16:04:05 <zhobbs> features "Android Home Edition V1.0"
Sep 15 16:04:22 <zhobbs> that's weak, I really wanted "Android Ultimate Edition 1.0"
Sep 15 16:06:06 <umdk1d3> zhobbs: nice find!!  =D
Sep 15 16:15:48 <rob-cs> zhobbs: so you think its fake?
Sep 15 16:16:04 <zhobbs> don't know...hope it's real
Sep 15 16:16:19 <zhobbs> the buttons on the device look like android buttons
Sep 15 16:16:32 <umdk1d3> and that odd red logo in the status bar
Sep 15 16:17:23 <zhobbs> I'd like to see the link to the original att blog post
Sep 15 16:27:08 <bravvve> hi any one runing android under linux
Sep 15 16:27:20 <zhobbs> bravvve: the emulator?
Sep 15 16:28:00 <bravvve> i want ~/.android
Sep 15 16:28:20 <bravvve>  zhobbs:
Sep 15 16:28:30 <bravvve> http://code.google.com/android/kb/troubleshooting.html#signingcalendar
Sep 15 16:28:30 <zhobbs> what do you mean??
Sep 15 16:29:09 <bravvve>  zhobbs:are u working under debian ?
Sep 15 16:29:19 <zhobbs> yeah
Sep 15 16:29:59 <zhobbs> well, ubuntu really
Sep 15 16:29:59 <bravvve> can help to run helloandroid?
Sep 15 16:30:54 <zhobbs> what's the problem?
Sep 15 16:31:37 <bravvve> zhobbs:http://www.anddev.org/could_not_fined_apk_file-t2834.html
Sep 15 16:33:52 <bravvve> zhobbs:heve u sean it befor?
Sep 15 16:34:05 <zhobbs> no, don't know what the problem is
Sep 15 16:35:34 <bravvve> zhobbs:take a look:http://code.google.com/android/kb/troubleshooting.html#signingcalendar
Sep 15 16:40:17 <bravvve> zhobbs: what debian?
Sep 15 17:11:37 <umdk1d3> hmm
Sep 15 17:11:53 <umdk1d3> are there any easy ways to use the layouts in the preference dialogs?
Sep 15 17:12:28 <umdk1d3> maybe not, because android.R.layout seems pretty sparse
Sep 15 17:13:22 <romainguy_> umdk1d3: just use the preferences framework
Sep 15 17:13:25 <romainguy_> see the ApiDemos
Sep 15 17:14:00 <umdk1d3> true, but i was looking to borrow one of those layouts to use in my own AlertDialog
Sep 15 17:14:29 <romainguy_> why don't you just do an activity?
Sep 15 17:15:29 <umdk1d3> i was looking to create a quick pop-up text editor, similar to those shown for EditTextPreference
Sep 15 17:15:43 <umdk1d3> looked like AlertDialog was the right direction with setView()
Sep 15 17:15:46 <Dougie187> nice.
Sep 15 17:15:46 <Dougie187> http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26674814/
Sep 15 17:18:59 * umdk1d3 still wonders how close they will cut the marketplace announcement
Sep 15 17:19:09 <umdk1d3> with regards to the details of adding apps to it
Sep 15 17:19:12 <umdk1d3> signing and everything
Sep 15 17:19:33 <umdk1d3> because you kinda want apps in the store before phones hit the shelves
Sep 15 17:20:07 <umdk1d3> ooh also we have that 1.0 sdk coming sometime this month accd to roadmap
Sep 15 17:20:08 <muthu> agree
Sep 15 17:20:17 <muthu> when's the market launch?
Sep 15 17:20:20 <muthu> sep 23?
Sep 15 17:20:27 <umdk1d3> no clue
Sep 15 17:20:36 <umdk1d3> there are dates flying all over the place
Sep 15 17:20:55 <muthu> yeah, one blog said andy rubin confirmed sep 23
Sep 15 17:21:32 <muthu> umdk1d3, is there an inline edittext for preferences?
Sep 15 17:22:08 <umdk1d3> yep  android.preference.EditTextPreference
Sep 15 17:22:18 <umdk1d3> but im looking to use it outside of preferences
Sep 15 17:22:31 <umdk1d3> *it=something like it
Sep 15 17:22:31 <muthu> is it inline
Sep 15 17:22:41 <muthu> its pops up a dialog
Sep 15 17:23:00 <muthu> want like the checkbox one, but for text
Sep 15 17:23:02 <umdk1d3> that object is inline in a list, but also pops up an edit dialog on click
Sep 15 17:23:12 <umdk1d3> oh i dont think they have an inline EditText one
Sep 15 17:23:18 <muthu> oh ok
Sep 15 17:23:22 <umdk1d3> where the EditText appears in the preferences list
Sep 15 17:23:37 <muthu> kinda sux, to open a edit dialog
Sep 15 17:24:19 <muthu> is there a way to reuse the contact screen?
Sep 15 17:25:00 <umdk1d3> not sure, you might fire a .PICK intent
Sep 15 17:25:22 <muthu> it might be dependent on contacts content provider
Sep 15 17:25:27 <bravvve> hi,can any one give me his ~/.android
Sep 15 17:25:39 <muthu> why you need that?
Sep 15 17:25:44 <umdk1d3> bravvve: you should be able to erase it, and the emulator will re-create it when it first launches
Sep 15 17:27:11 <bravvve> umdk1d3:but am my debian is french i nead english debug-key
Sep 15 17:27:47 <bravvve> http://code.google.com/android/intro/develop-and-debug.html#signing
Sep 15 17:27:51 <romainguy_> on pourrait parler français alors :)
Sep 15 17:28:39 <bravvve> romainguy_:oui,et ça serai cool si tu travaille sous debian
Sep 15 17:31:10 <bravvve> umdk1d3:so can help?
Sep 15 17:32:29 <bravvve> romainguy_:encor la,
Sep 15 17:32:35 <romainguy_> bravvve: non je ne bosse pas sous Debian
Sep 15 17:33:22 <xavd_> bravvve: english debug key?
Sep 15 17:33:51 <bravvve>  romainguy_:ubuntu?
Sep 15 17:33:57 <romainguy_> bravvve: Mac OS X
Sep 15 17:34:12 <bravvve> xavd_:yes
Sep 15 17:34:26 <xavd_> keys don't have locale associated to them
Sep 15 17:35:48 <bravvve> mean?
Sep 15 17:36:11 <xavd_> it means that creating a debug key on a french system won't be a problem
Sep 15 17:37:53 <bravvve>  xavd_:http://www.anddev.org/could_not_fined_apk_file-t2834.html
Sep 15 17:38:50 <xavd_> can you go to eclipse settings and enble the verbose mode under android > eclipse
Sep 15 17:39:04 <xavd_> and then clean your project and check the output in the console
Sep 15 17:40:59 <bravvve> clean my project?
Sep 15 17:41:28 <xavd_> Project > Clean ...
Sep 15 17:43:53 <bravvve> and ???
Sep 15 17:45:12 <tric> bravvve: and rebuild it
Sep 15 17:45:17 <xavd_> and select your project to clean it (to force a rebuild)
Sep 15 17:45:53 <bravvve> ok
Sep 15 17:48:42 <bravvve> where can i post it?
Sep 15 17:49:51 <tretle> hi, I have seen some hacks to get andoid working on current hardware like the htc polaris, I was wondering whether its being run on top of windows mobile or whether windows mobile is completely replaced by android and a modified boot loader?
Sep 15 17:51:14 <Dougie187> most likely it has been running on top of windows mobile
Sep 15 17:51:25 <Dougie187> since its just the sdk that has been released so far afaik.
Sep 15 17:58:51 <tretle> :(
Sep 15 17:59:20 <Dougie187> you will have to wait until android comes out.
Sep 15 17:59:39 <Dougie187> just like everyone else in here.
Sep 15 17:59:59 <tretle> hope the htc dream doesnt end up costing too much then, need a new phone badly but willing to wait at max an another month..
Sep 15 18:00:21 <Dougie187> what do you mean by too much?
Sep 15 18:00:29 <Dougie187> 250?
Sep 15 18:00:43 <tretle> 250 euros would be ok
Sep 15 18:00:51 <tretle> but that depends
Sep 15 18:01:03 <tretle> 250euros plus a contact kinda sucks
Sep 15 18:01:11 <tretle> *contract
Sep 15 18:01:13 <Dougie187> heh, well we will see.
Sep 15 18:01:37 <Dougie187> im curious if the overseas release is the same date as the us release.
Sep 15 18:04:17 <tretle> I'm curios as to whether android will really lower prices for smartphones and lower the entry barrier for consumers or whether the handset manufacturers will just pocket the cash saved from the lack of need for licensing and just charge the same sucky prices, Im hoping for the first one there, would be cool for people to be able to buy touch screen smart phones for 150 - 200euro on a pay as you go plan
Sep 15 18:05:14 <Dougie187> we'll see
Sep 15 18:05:25 <tretle> I mean you can get an atom based netbook for the same price as a smartphone with a contract which is ridiculous
Sep 15 18:05:48 <Dougie187> yeah
Sep 15 18:06:10 <Dougie187> you could install skype on it and a wwan card, and then you have a portable cell phone
Sep 15 18:06:11 <Dougie187> ;)
Sep 15 18:06:41 <tretle> lol, coupled with a 3g card and your good to go
Sep 15 18:06:44 <tretle> :)
Sep 15 18:06:47 <Dougie187> it would be a pain to walk down the street on the phone though
Sep 15 18:07:03 <Dougie187> you would have to carry your netbook tethered to your ear.
Sep 15 18:12:05 <bazz> so, is the eclipse plugin repository down or something?  i get a 404 on https://dl-ssl.google.com/android/eclipse/?
Sep 15 18:12:45 <xavd_> it's normal
Sep 15 18:12:54 <xavd_> there's no default html file in that folder
Sep 15 18:13:20 <xavd_> if you add site.xml at the end you'll get the file (eclipse knows about the filename so there's no reason to addd it to the URL)
Sep 15 18:15:35 <bazz> xavd_: ahh, it wasn't working in eclipse because of the https, if i change it to http it works fine :)
Sep 15 18:16:21 <xavd_> yeah some people have some problem with that
Sep 15 18:17:52 <bazz> anyway, it's working fine now, thanks
Sep 15 18:45:42 <kingkung> hey guys
Sep 15 18:46:07 <kingkung> does anyone have any experience receiving incoming SMS's?
Sep 15 18:46:33 <kingkung> i have an SMS receiver (from anddev), but something doesn't seem to be working in 0.9
Sep 15 18:46:38 <kingkung> it worked fine in m5
Sep 15 18:55:14 <xavd_> kingkung: did you set the permission to receive the SMS?
Sep 15 19:27:30 <herriojr> oh my god, I had smack.jar working, and now when I revert to that tag, it no longer works...
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Sep 15 21:41:25 <umdk1d3> wow  http://www.techcrunch50.com/2008/conference/presenter.php?presenter=76
Sep 15 21:44:58 <mickrobk> whats the diff between that and this?
Sep 15 21:44:59 <mickrobk> http://code.google.com/android/adc_gallery/app.html?id=38
Sep 15 21:45:16 <umdk1d3> not sure, but idea seems similar
Sep 15 21:55:30 <rob-cs> uhhh
Sep 15 21:55:33 <rob-cs> those are totally different
Sep 15 21:55:39 <rob-cs> those are startups in any industry
Sep 15 21:55:50 <rob-cs> it could be an idea for a fastfood restaurant
Sep 15 21:56:06 <mickrobk> the 2 programs, not the 2 contests
Sep 15 21:56:47 <rob-cs> oh, gotchya
Sep 15 21:56:54 <rob-cs> if you ask me, those are both destined for failure
Sep 15 21:57:12 <rob-cs> they said it allows you to type up to 30 words per minute or something
Sep 15 21:57:22 <rob-cs> thats worse than a nice Full QWERTY like the Voyager
Sep 15 22:02:41 <chomchom> Good eve
Sep 15 22:03:29 <chomchom> Anyone going to be at the London dev day tomorrow
Sep 16 00:48:57 <gambler> Is it harmful to drink charcoal?
Sep 16 00:48:57 <gambler> My brita filter left some dust at the bottom of my glass.
Sep 16 00:51:46 <gambler> nm, The brita FAQ answers all :p
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue Sep 16 02:05:38 2008

**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Sep 16 07:02:29 2008
Sep 16 08:10:33 <Adamant> it sounds like the Linux version won't be out for a good long while
Sep 16 08:10:51 <muthu_> yeah, looks like it
Sep 16 08:10:52 <Adamant> they're also having trouble with the OS X version, but it's further along than Linux
Sep 16 08:11:17 <Adamant> yeah I tried Chrome in a VM running Windows
Sep 16 08:11:21 <Adamant> it's pretty slick
Sep 16 08:11:35 <muthu_> a light weight browser is what i want now
Sep 16 08:11:38 <muthu_> just browsing
Sep 16 08:11:50 <Adamant> Chrome is pretty close to that, I think.
Sep 16 08:12:06 <muthu_> that's why i dumped flock
Sep 16 08:12:15 <muthu_> unfortunately a bit too fast
Sep 16 08:12:18 <Adamant> I dunno, I'm gonna keep using Firefox until Chrome gets extensions at least.
Sep 16 08:12:38 <muthu_> have firefox now
Sep 16 08:12:41 <Adamant> extensions are just too useful not to use them
Sep 16 08:12:52 <muthu_> firefox for dev browsing
Sep 16 08:13:02 <muthu_> chrome for browsing
Sep 16 08:14:02 <Adamant> and yeah, support for more languages than just Javascript would be nice for Chrome
Sep 16 08:14:17 <Adamant> I think the V8 VM is pretty hardwired to Javascript though
Sep 16 08:14:24 <muthu_> guess so
Sep 16 08:14:44 <muthu_> what else you looking at?
Sep 16 08:14:50 <Adamant> yeah. being able to develop in many languages is pretty much the only reason to use Silverlight.
Sep 16 08:14:57 <Adamant> for what?
Sep 16 08:15:05 <muthu_> more languages?
Sep 16 08:15:28 <muthu_> isn't javascript enough?
Sep 16 08:15:33 <Adamant> eh, I'd like to be able to use a fairly arbitrary language to do client-side web apps
Sep 16 08:15:57 <Adamant> for instance do everything in Ruby instead of Javascript
Sep 16 08:16:27 <muthu_> hmm.. then it gets bloated
Sep 16 08:16:53 <Adamant> well, not if there was a standardized thing for languages to target.
Sep 16 08:17:43 <muthu_> browser + javascript is a nice combo
Sep 16 08:17:46 <Adamant> most modern high level languages would map reasonably well onto a Javascript-optimized VM
Sep 16 08:17:48 <Adamant> it is
Sep 16 08:17:48 <tric> there is, javascript. i doubt ms will ever include ruby and such. so there is no choice anyway
Sep 16 08:18:13 <Adamant> tric: you can't do Ruby and such in Silverlight?
Sep 16 08:18:23 <Adamant> I thought you could do IronRuby
Sep 16 08:20:03 <muthu_> how to get unique id of the phone?
Sep 16 08:21:52 <muthu_> there is a service to call.. forgot which one
Sep 16 08:28:51 <muthu_>                     String myIMSI = android.os.SystemProperties
Sep 16 08:28:52 <muthu_>                             .get(TelephonyProperties.PROPERTY_SIM_OPERATOR_NUMERIC);
Sep 16 08:29:01 <muthu_> will that work?
Sep 16 08:35:53 <muthu_>         String imei = TelephonyManager.getDefault().getDeviceId();
Sep 16 08:36:07 <muthu_> that might work
Sep 16 08:38:00 <tric> adamant: silverlight only works in windows, so again a problem. i doubt there will be solution in the next 5 years.
Sep 16 08:38:24 <Adamant> tric: I have the Silverlight plugin for my Mac
Sep 16 08:38:37 <Adamant> but I doubt they will make one for Linux
Sep 16 08:53:53 <gambler> Is there a Groupbox kind of control in Android?
Sep 16 08:53:56 <gambler> eg. http://www.potu.com/man/doc.trolltech.com/4.0/images/groupbox-example.png
Sep 16 08:54:03 <gambler> (the frame)
Sep 16 08:54:59 <muthu_> nope
Sep 16 08:55:53 <gambler> oh wow this is handy: http://whyandroid.com/android/tutorial/88-a-visual-guide-to-android-gui-widgets.html
Sep 16 08:56:41 <gambler> Is that the lot?
Sep 16 08:57:01 <muthu_> wow, cool
Sep 16 08:57:19 <muthu_> whyandroid - first time hearing it
Sep 16 08:57:24 <muthu_> but looks like a great site
Sep 16 08:58:41 <gambler> yep a bit of content there
Sep 16 09:02:18 <gambler> whoa
Sep 16 09:02:21 <gambler> droiddraw.org
Sep 16 09:05:20 <muthu_> nice
Sep 16 09:11:47 <tric> wow, what a news, there is droiddraw. wow
Sep 16 09:13:12 <muthu_> wow wow
Sep 16 09:13:36 <gambler> gpl too
Sep 16 09:13:44 <gambler> code.google.com/p/droiddraw/
Sep 16 09:50:13 <muthu_> can buttons be added to gallery view?
Sep 16 10:48:57 <snadge> if you want to do client side code in a web browser.. javascript is the only option, unless you count flash, or java itself
Sep 16 10:49:37 <snadge> silverlight is a neat toy and all.. but unless its free software, its essentially useless for the same reason flash is
Sep 16 10:50:30 <snadge> except you have an even smaller userbase and no linux support at all.. fantastic ;)
Sep 16 12:58:21 <Dougie187> hey yakischloba
Sep 16 12:58:37 <Dougie187> http://www.engadget.com/2008/09/16/t-mobile-to-sell-dream-starting-late-october-sez-wsj/
Sep 16 12:58:57 <yakischloba> mmm
Sep 16 12:59:05 * yakischloba peers through his bleary eyes
Sep 16 12:59:49 <yakischloba> how annoying is it to transfer numbers between carriers?
Sep 16 12:59:58 <yakischloba> i've never done it before
Sep 16 13:02:58 <zhobbs> yakischloba: not that bad
Sep 16 13:03:16 <zhobbs> probably won't take long to unlock the thing though, who knows what the full price is
Sep 16 13:05:25 <Dougie187> yeah
Sep 16 13:05:32 <Dougie187> im interested to know how much its gonna run.
Sep 16 13:06:53 <yakischloba> zhobbs: im not on a gsm carrier anyway
Sep 16 13:08:01 <yakischloba> Dougie187: as long as its not $500 or something I don't really care heh
Sep 16 13:08:33 <Dougie187> i would hope its not that much though, since the idea is there is not a license fee.
Sep 16 13:08:42 <yakischloba> yeah
Sep 16 13:09:01 <Dougie187> i would be very disappointed if it was that expensive.
Sep 16 13:09:02 <Dougie187> lol
Sep 16 13:09:20 <yakischloba> isnt it speculated around 2-300?
Sep 16 13:09:29 <Dougie187> ionno
Sep 16 13:09:33 <Dougie187> i haven't heard anything
Sep 16 13:09:40 <Dougie187> but most of HTC's devices are around that.
Sep 16 13:09:46 <Dougie187> i would hope its around 200 though
Sep 16 13:09:52 <Dougie187> since the touch diamond is 250.
Sep 16 13:10:05 <Dougie187> but i guess it is mission some features that the dream has.
Sep 16 13:11:19 <yakischloba> man waking up this early fucks with me
Sep 16 13:11:29 <yakischloba> i do shit like try to put my phone in the microwave instead of my breakfast burrito
Sep 16 13:12:14 <Dougie187> lol
Sep 16 13:12:25 <Dougie187> i tried to put toothpaste on my hand this morning.
Sep 16 13:12:44 <yakischloba> nice. i havent done that one yet
Sep 16 13:12:44 <yakischloba> any day now..
Sep 16 13:13:39 <Dougie187> at least you haven't actually microwaved your phone yet though.
Sep 16 13:14:17 <yakischloba> yeah. i was pretty damn close
Sep 16 13:14:29 <yakischloba> dialing in the time when i realized i had the burrito in my hand
Sep 16 13:14:37 <yakischloba> "so what the fuck is in the microwave?"
Sep 16 13:14:41 <zhobbs> lol
Sep 16 13:15:05 <Dougie187> it would have been funny if you smashed the burrito in your face thinking it was the phone and you were making a call.
Sep 16 13:15:09 <yakischloba> heh
Sep 16 13:16:14 <Dougie187> though, it would suck if you had already cooked it...
Sep 16 13:17:18 <yakischloba> at least it was the work phone and not my personal phone
Sep 16 13:17:54 <Dougie187> true
Sep 16 13:19:45 <yakischloba> i have to carry it everywhere with me so sometimes i do funny stuff with it
Sep 16 13:19:52 <yakischloba> ends up in strange places
Sep 16 13:20:07 <Dougie187> lol
Sep 16 14:35:53 <zhobbs> yeah, I want android on a Touch HD
Sep 16 14:36:04 <Dougie187> lol who doesnt.
Sep 16 14:36:36 <Dougie187> it would be rather cool.
Sep 16 14:36:44 <Dougie187> but we will see if it comes out like that.
Sep 16 14:39:22 <zhobbs> the touch hd has a similar chipset as the HTC dream...(Qualcomm MSM72XX), so maybe it'll be an easy port
Sep 16 14:45:30 <loke__> has there been any indications on what an off-the-shelf dream will cost?
Sep 16 14:45:44 <loke__> (without subscription)
Sep 16 15:00:00 <plusminus_> just rumours
Sep 16 15:21:48 <nemik> sucks that all the new android phones are giant
Sep 16 15:43:26 <plusminus_> smartphones not smallphones ;)
Sep 16 15:56:49 <rob-cs> hi everyone
Sep 16 15:57:00 <zhobbs> hi
Sep 16 16:05:35 <plusminus_> hi
Sep 16 17:02:34 <zhobbs> romainguy__: you ever worked with ActivityGroup?
Sep 16 17:03:08 <zhobbs> I can't restart an activity after I do an LocalActivityManager.destroyActivity() on it
Sep 16 17:08:19 <romainguy_> no I never used it
Sep 16 18:10:02 <donomo> ive got Log.i("tag","msg here") in onPause,onResume,onStart,onCreate. yet i dont see anything in the eclipse console window when i run the app in the emulator. why is that?
Sep 16 18:11:50 <umdk1d3> donomo: it doesnt show up in the console window
Sep 16 18:11:55 <umdk1d3> it goes in the DDMS logcat window
Sep 16 18:13:04 <donomo> ok i see the pulldown for 1. DDMS 2. Android. ive selected DDMS but still no log msgs
Sep 16 18:13:13 <umdk1d3> in DDMS is there a logcat window?
Sep 16 18:13:21 <umdk1d3> if its empty you might need to pick your emulator from the device list
Sep 16 18:13:44 <umdk1d3> *logcat tab
Sep 16 18:13:55 <donomo> the console tab contains a DDMS header bar, then a blank white area below that.
Sep 16 18:13:58 <jasonlee> just try adb logcat from the command line
Sep 16 18:14:04 <jasonlee> DDMS is kinda weak anyway
Sep 16 18:14:18 <donomo> is Log the prefered way to log status messages?
Sep 16 18:14:26 <jasonlee> yes
Sep 16 18:14:38 <umdk1d3> status==pretty much only you and other developers will see it tho
Sep 16 18:15:18 <donomo> jasonlee: i was hoping to stay in the warm fuzzy world of the IDE :)
Sep 16 18:15:33 <umdk1d3> donomo: imho the logcat in ddms works pretty well
Sep 16 18:15:37 <umdk1d3> and its color coded
Sep 16 18:15:56 <donomo> umdk1d3: im not seeing the 'device list'
Sep 16 18:16:03 <umdk1d3> donomo: is this ddms in eclipse?
Sep 16 18:16:15 <donomo> adb logcat gives some intereting info but nothing from my app :(
Sep 16 18:16:23 <donomo> umdk1d3: yes if i understand you correctly
Sep 16 18:17:54 <donomo> umdk1d3: the window looks like this: http://donpark.org/albums/misc/eclipse-android.png
Sep 16 18:18:04 <umdk1d3> OH LOL
Sep 16 18:18:05 <umdk1d3> okay
Sep 16 18:18:15 <umdk1d3> up in the upper right where it says "Java" button
Sep 16 18:18:19 <umdk1d3> right click and add DDMS layout
Sep 16 18:18:37 <umdk1d3> or wait its not a right click
Sep 16 18:18:42 <umdk1d3> its just the "plus" icon up there
Sep 16 18:19:06 <umdk1d3> also donomo youre probably getting errors because your not calling through to super.onStart() etc
Sep 16 18:19:07 <donomo> yeah now that i know its an eclipse perspective
Sep 16 18:19:25 <donomo> wow, look at all those control panels.
Sep 16 18:19:26 <umdk1d3> but those should show up in the logcat view under the ddms perspective
Sep 16 18:20:33 <donomo> umdk1d3: ok thanks for the help. i think this will get me back on track
Sep 16 18:20:40 <umdk1d3> cool  :)
Sep 16 18:23:06 <jasonlee> DDMS doesn't let you filter out stuff as well as the command line stuff does.. or at least, it didn't last time i tried..
Sep 16 18:24:37 <romainguy_> it definitely does
Sep 16 18:24:53 <donomo> i see the log msgs now. woot.
Sep 16 18:25:30 <jasonlee> romainguy: so on the command line i can do this : adb SomeLabel:* *:S
Sep 16 18:25:45 <jasonlee> romainguy: can i do that from DDMS?
Sep 16 18:26:10 <donomo> it would be nice to filter out the dalvikvm messages
Sep 16 18:26:32 <jasonlee> donomo: right, that's what i do on the command line..
Sep 16 18:26:44 * fadden_ sighs
Sep 16 18:30:39 <umdk1d3> jasonlee: yep you can add filters, just hit the green + arrow on the logcat window
Sep 16 18:31:05 <umdk1d3> filters by any combination of logtag, pid, and log level
Sep 16 18:31:19 <jasonlee> umdk1d3 : nice, didn't know that..
Sep 16 18:31:32 <donomo> its an inclusive filter instead of exclusive filter
Sep 16 18:32:09 <donomo> jasonlee: then you can filter that with more detail on the Filter: ____ field below the log window
Sep 16 18:34:47 * donomo wishing he had an external monitor to dedicate to the emulator
Sep 16 18:35:59 <donomo> does it seem like there is more interest in android development since t-mobile's annoucement of a handset in Oct or Nov?
Sep 16 19:04:32 <km-> woo hoo @engadget
Sep 16 19:04:49 <km-> I'm confused.  Is Sep 23rd just the announcement date or the actual hardware-will-be-available date?
Sep 16 19:05:25 <km-> I'm assuming it's just the announcement date but obviously would be happy to walk out of the store with it on 9/23 ;)
Sep 16 19:12:19 <rob-cs> Announcment = sept 23rd, Launch = oct 20th
Sep 16 19:12:21 <rob-cs> http://phandroid.com/2008/09/16/htc-dream-october-20th/
Sep 16 19:12:31 <rob-cs> of course, nothing is set in stone but thats what i would expect
Sep 16 19:12:44 <rob-cs> i really want to know what the commercials will look like
Sep 16 19:12:46 <rob-cs> hehe
Sep 16 19:36:04 <Dougie187> so.. next tuesday huh?
Sep 16 19:36:09 <Dougie187> thats pretty cool.
Sep 16 19:59:43 <acemoo> when following this guide http://code.google.com/android/intro/installing.html#installingplugin im getting the following error when clicking apply after restarting {[2008-09-16 21:54:59 - adb]Failed to get the adb version: Cannot run program "/home/acemo/development/android/android-sdk-linux_x86-0.9_beta/tools/adb": java.io.IOException: error=13, Permission denied} what can be the problem?
Sep 16 20:08:23 <rob-cs> OFFICIAL T-MOBILE/GOOGLE EVENT: http://phandroid.com/2008/09/16/breaking-t-mobiledream-live-event-in-nyc/
Sep 16 20:08:36 <umdk1d3> yay!
Sep 16 20:11:46 <rob-cs> thats freakin BALLIN
Sep 16 20:12:28 <yakischloba> interesting.
Sep 16 20:23:46 <plusminus_> hm, new york is just 300miles
Sep 16 20:24:17 <Dougie187> lol
Sep 16 20:24:25 <Dougie187> you can always walk there.
Sep 16 20:25:48 <plusminus_> not if I still would be in germany
Sep 16 20:25:56 <Dougie187> you could try.
Sep 16 20:26:01 <Dougie187> just swim across the ocean.
Sep 16 20:26:31 <plusminus_> that image says "invitation": http://phandroid.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/tmobile-event.jpg
Sep 16 20:27:06 <plusminus_> and it was displayed from within the emulator...
Sep 16 20:28:24 <acemoo> when following this guide http://code.google.com/android/intro/installing.html#installingplugin im getting the following error when clicking apply after restarting {[2008-09-16 21:54:59 - adb]Failed to get the adb version: Cannot run program "/home/acemo/development/android/android-sdk-linux_x86-0.9_beta/tools/adb": java.io.IOException: error=13, Permission denied} what can be the problem?
Sep 16 20:29:03 <plusminus_> chmod ?!?!
Sep 16 20:29:49 <Dougie187> lol
Sep 16 20:29:55 <Dougie187> the obvious solution screams chmod.
Sep 16 20:30:12 <acemoo> but i do have rights to view and modify content..
Sep 16 20:48:10 <plusminus_> did they change the screenshot ...? http://phandroid.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/tmobile-event1.jpg
Sep 16 20:49:58 <plusminus_> the middle of the lower right box looks modified.... a bit blurry, like a fake o_O
Sep 16 20:50:11 <rob-cs> plusminus
Sep 16 20:50:13 <umdk1d3> true
Sep 16 20:50:14 <rob-cs> that was me
Sep 16 20:50:20 <umdk1d3> they might have erased the name
Sep 16 20:50:22 <umdk1d3> on the invite
Sep 16 20:50:24 <rob-cs> trigatch4
Sep 16 20:50:29 <rob-cs> it had an address on there
Sep 16 20:50:50 <rob-cs> i didn't want crazy idiots to roll up thinking it was free to the public and then get blamed on the interwebz
Sep 16 20:50:52 <rob-cs> haha
Sep 16 20:51:06 <umdk1d3> lol true
Sep 16 20:51:09 <plusminus_> ah ok
Sep 16 20:51:11 <umdk1d3> however, there is still a map  ;)
Sep 16 20:51:18 <rob-cs> dangit
Sep 16 20:51:22 <umdk1d3> :P
Sep 16 20:51:27 <plusminus_> rob-cs: you are from phandroid?
Sep 16 20:51:36 <rob-cs> yeah, im usually trigatch4 on here
Sep 16 20:51:37 <umdk1d3> and if anything, we know that android fans are hardcore enough to decode tha tmap
Sep 16 20:51:41 <umdk1d3> ah
Sep 16 20:51:42 <rob-cs> somehow my default name got changed
Sep 16 20:51:48 <plusminus_> where did you get the screen from?
Sep 16 20:51:49 <umdk1d3> rob-cs: did you get the invite personally then?
Sep 16 20:51:55 <rob-cs> yeah they sent me an email
Sep 16 20:51:57 <plusminus_> umdk1d3: yeah..?
Sep 16 20:51:57 <umdk1d3> plusminus_: its just branding on the invite
Sep 16 20:52:11 <plusminus_> damn
Sep 16 20:52:17 <umdk1d3> its not really "in" the emulator  :P
Sep 16 20:52:30 <plusminus_> damn i got to go hom eright now, check my mail !!
Sep 16 20:52:43 <plusminus_> *excited*
Sep 16 20:52:44 <umdk1d3> lol
Sep 16 20:53:02 <umdk1d3> the small print seems like its just for the press/analyusts
Sep 16 20:53:05 <umdk1d3> not developers at all  :/
Sep 16 20:53:16 <umdk1d3> but with press im sure we will get plenty of highres pics of whatever they show off
Sep 16 20:53:23 <plusminus_> i hope they did nto forget anddev :(
Sep 16 20:54:14 <umdk1d3> the invite looks electoronic, not sure if there was a paper one mailed
Sep 16 20:54:30 <umdk1d3> darn it, and its non transferrable
Sep 16 20:55:04 <umdk1d3> its interesting that the google logo isnt very prominent (or present at all)
Sep 16 20:55:26 <umdk1d3> "other company executives" lol
Sep 16 20:55:30 <umdk1d3> theyu still havent named the handset manuf
Sep 16 20:55:43 <rob-cs> plus minus you just scared me into deleting the map now too
Sep 16 20:55:45 <rob-cs> haha
Sep 16 20:55:53 <umdk1d3> dont worry ive got it archived  ^.^
Sep 16 20:56:07 <umdk1d3> someone said it was in new york right?
Sep 16 20:56:34 <umdk1d3> rob-cs: LOL you should put in ANOTHER map totally in a diff locaion
Sep 16 20:56:34 <umdk1d3> :P
Sep 16 20:56:49 <rob-cs> hahaha
Sep 16 20:57:03 <rob-cs> make it a "treasure hunt" to find the press release
Sep 16 20:57:12 <plusminus_> rob-cs: I didn"t I had just the link to phandroid
Sep 16 20:57:25 <plusminus_> because I don't have my ftp data here
Sep 16 20:57:39 <rob-cs> not sure i understand?
Sep 16 20:57:52 <plusminus_> rob-cs	plus minus you just scared me into deleting the map now too
Sep 16 20:58:09 <plusminus_> but i"ve had a browser window open :-D
Sep 16 20:58:16 <plusminus_> saved it ;)
Sep 16 20:58:24 <rob-cs> uhoh
Sep 16 20:58:36 <plusminus_> won't make it public
Sep 16 20:58:39 <plusminus_> ;-P
Sep 16 20:58:41 <rob-cs> don't make me sic a robot on you
Sep 16 20:59:04 <plusminus_> g2g now, heck my mail. Wish me luck
Sep 16 20:59:09 <plusminus_> bye
Sep 16 20:59:10 <rob-cs> goodluck
Sep 16 21:02:23 <umdk1d3> this looks like roughly the right neighborhood  40.759578,-73.957686
Sep 16 21:02:39 <umdk1d3> but imagery doesnt line up exactly, might be an older version of maps
Sep 16 21:21:56 <kingkung> hello
Sep 16 21:21:57 <kingkung> ?
Sep 16 21:22:20 <kingkung> does anybody know if Android stores SMS messages in a content provider?
Sep 16 21:22:48 <kingkung> I have the CONTENT_URI for the SMS inbox, but it doesn't seem to have any rows/columns
Sep 16 21:23:26 <kingkung> hey plusminus
Sep 16 21:23:28 <kingkung> are u there?
Sep 16 21:24:31 <plusminus_> yes
Sep 16 21:26:55 <plusminus_> i have not been invited to the announcement-event ...
Sep 16 21:27:19 <kingkung> hello
Sep 16 21:27:19 <kingkung> oh
Sep 16 21:27:45 <unix_lappy> are they going to release it on the 23rd to shelves or release it to market the 23rd (aka tell people it's coming)
Sep 16 21:28:15 <plusminus_> just announce it (very probably)
Sep 16 21:29:12 <kingkung> hey plusminus
Sep 16 21:29:15 <kingkung> i had a question about SMSs
Sep 16 21:29:44 <kingkung> first of all, does android automatically store incoming SMSs in a contentprovider?
Sep 16 21:30:19 <kingkung> i know there's a content_uri for the SMS inbox, but it seems to be blank (no headers even)
Sep 16 21:31:12 <plusminus_> yes it stores
Sep 16 21:31:30 <plusminus_> there is one but if i remember right, the doc doesn't show it
Sep 16 21:31:55 <kingkung> i'm just using Inbox.CONTENT_URI
Sep 16 21:31:59 <kingkung> programatically
Sep 16 21:32:10 <plusminus_> yeah thats it
Sep 16 21:32:26 <kingkung> but i'm trying to print the column headers / rows and nothing prints out
Sep 16 21:32:58 <plusminus_> final int messageBodyColumn = c.getColumnIndexOrThrow(Telephony.Sms.BODY);
Sep 16 21:33:06 <plusminus_> final String messageBody = c.getString(messageBodyColumn);
Sep 16 21:33:12 <plusminus_> works fine for me
Sep 16 21:33:38 <kingkung> strange, okay i'll try that
Sep 16 21:33:39 <kingkung> also
Sep 16 21:33:56 <kingkung> i downloaded the SMSReceiver tut from anddev
Sep 16 21:34:18 <kingkung> in there, u launch the main activity from an SMS wakeup
Sep 16 21:34:21 <plusminus_> where c is:
Sep 16 21:34:31 <plusminus_> final Cursor c = getContentResolver().query(Telephony.Sms.Inbox.CONTENT_URI, null, null, null, null);
Sep 16 21:34:59 <kingkung> but what if the application is already launched?
Sep 16 21:35:39 <kingkung> i need my SMSReceiver to know not to launch my application if it is already open; just process the SMS accordingly
Sep 16 21:35:54 <kingkung> else, launch the app
Sep 16 21:39:29 <plusminus_> never had to do such, sorry
Sep 16 21:39:36 <plusminus_> just try what happens
Sep 16 21:39:53 <kingkung> okay, np
Sep 16 21:50:11 <plusminus_> I feel a bit fuck*d
Sep 16 21:54:24 <plusminus_> anyone ever heard of 'androidauthority.com' ?
Sep 16 21:56:41 * plusminus_ pissed
Sep 16 21:56:50 * plusminus_ ... mood
Sep 16 21:57:37 <qvark> hi, is anybody using the Theme.Light in his application?
Sep 16 22:12:17 <donomo> woot. got a background service to log "hello" every 5 seconds.
Sep 16 22:23:53 <acemoo> getting the error R.layout.main cannot be resolved right after making a new project, what am i doing wrong? o.o
Sep 16 22:24:23 <plusminus_> clean your project and check if the R.java appear
Sep 16 22:25:20 <acemoo> the error does reappear
Sep 16 22:25:33 <plusminus_> what does the R:java contain?
Sep 16 22:26:25 <acemoo> i dont have R.java.. only have the android jar file wich cointains the .class files
Sep 16 22:26:41 <xavd_> acemoo: open the console view and see the ouput of the android console
Sep 16 22:27:01 <acemoo> xavd_: empty
Sep 16 22:27:47 <xavd_> go to the preferences and under Android > build switch to verbose output
Sep 16 22:27:57 <xavd_> then Project > Clean to force a rebuild
Sep 16 22:28:34 <plusminus_> acemoo: the R.java should appear in right within your project
Sep 16 22:30:23 <acemoo> xavd_: this is the output after rebuilding http://rafb.net/p/zyj8Lv91.html
Sep 16 22:31:09 <xavd_> what's in the Eclipse "Problems" view?
Sep 16 22:34:05 <acemoo> Description	Resource	Path	Location	Type
Sep 16 22:34:05 <acemoo> R.layout.main cannot be resolved	cow.java	cow/src/cow/cow	line 12	Java Problem
Sep 16 22:34:34 <xavd_> that's it?
Sep 16 22:34:53 <acemoo> yup
Sep 16 22:35:16 <xavd_> well that's strange
Sep 16 22:35:45 <xavd_> can you execute /home/acemo/development/android/android-sdk-linux_x86-0.9_beta/tools/aapt from a shell?
Sep 16 22:36:13 <acemoo> yup
Sep 16 22:36:52 <xavd_> can you execute the full line from your console output?
Sep 16 22:36:57 <xavd_> (line 5)
Sep 16 22:38:07 <acemoo> http://rafb.net/p/V8SJH047.html
Sep 16 22:38:48 <xavd_> did that create the R class? It's really strange that output wasn't in the console
Sep 16 22:39:27 <acemoo> no
Sep 16 22:39:48 <acemoo> what is the R class anyways?
Sep 16 22:40:49 <xavd_> it contains id to access resources in your code
Sep 16 22:40:59 <xavd_> it's created automatically from the content of the res/ folder
Sep 16 22:41:23 <acemoo> i see
Sep 16 22:42:10 <xavd_> the aapt output looks complete. when I use it, it does not output anything else (but the R class is created)
Sep 16 22:42:43 <acemoo> okay.. time for the ultimate solution...
Sep 16 22:42:51 <acemoo> * kicks computer
Sep 16 22:44:00 <xavd_> there's no strange permission on the folder in which the R class would be created?
Sep 16 22:44:10 <xavd_> (under <project>/src/package/
Sep 16 22:44:18 <xavd_> where package is the package declared in the manifest
Sep 16 22:44:31 <acemoo> nope.. just normal folder..  read+write rights for myself, read only for others
Sep 16 22:47:14 <xavd_> what's your distrib?
Sep 16 22:47:36 <acemoo> kubuntu
Sep 16 22:50:17 <romainguy_> umdk1d3: how was the interview? :)
Sep 16 22:50:56 <xavd_> acemoo: do you have ant installed?
Sep 16 22:52:14 <acemoo> nope.. lemme install
Sep 16 22:53:15 <acemoo> that seems to work.. error is gone =)
Sep 16 22:53:35 <acemoo> thanks alot
Sep 16 22:53:37 <xavd_> huh?
Sep 16 22:54:04 <xavd_> I didn't ask you about it to fix the error but to try another way of figuring out what the problem was
Sep 16 22:54:10 <xavd_> but if it works...
Sep 16 22:54:15 <acemoo> lol? okay..
Sep 16 22:55:03 <xavd_> aapt is no way uses ant. so I don't see how it could have fixed your issue
Sep 16 22:57:19 <acemoo> if it works it works so im happy :p
Sep 17 01:01:27 <mohbana> any idea when android is due in the uk?
Sep 17 01:02:17 <f00f-> couple of months
Sep 17 01:05:36 <snadge> my flatmate loaded android onto his htc tytn ii
Sep 17 01:06:07 <snadge> its a little bit buggy as one would expect.. but for the most part, it works
Sep 17 01:06:46 <snadge> i wonder if android is going to be ported to existing phones.. in a supported way, or whether they will always remain unofficial projects
Sep 17 01:07:06 <umdk1d3> well everything will be opensourced
Sep 17 01:07:34 <umdk1d3> so i suppose you could write whatever you need to hack it onto your device
Sep 17 01:07:35 <snadge> of course, so the decision is left mainly to the mobile phone manufacturers themselves.. as to whether they will port a new operating system to existing phones.. and my guess is, they will not want to do this
Sep 17 01:07:43 <umdk1d3> however, some handware isnt up to the job
Sep 17 01:08:15 <umdk1d3> for example, the n810 doesnt have a good-enough framebuffer
Sep 17 01:08:24 <umdk1d3> which is why it only runs m3 iirc
Sep 17 01:08:30 <snadge> yeah, so my guess is.. things like android on tytn ii.. will remain an "enthusiast" project which lands you smack bang in the middle of "unsupported" territory ;)
Sep 17 01:09:13 <snadge> but no doubt, these community projects will continue to improve anyway.. potentially even to the point where you could discard windows mobile from that phone entirely
Sep 17 01:09:20 <umdk1d3> true
Sep 17 01:09:36 <umdk1d3> the bootloader is the hardest part probably
Sep 17 01:09:47 <umdk1d3> getting it just right without completely bricking the device
Sep 17 01:09:51 <snadge> yeah at the moment, he has it stored on an SD card
Sep 17 01:10:01 <umdk1d3> right now doesnt it just "replace" winmo without actually power cycling the device?
Sep 17 01:10:07 <snadge> and he has to double click the boot loader from within winmo
Sep 17 01:10:11 <umdk1d3> yea  :/
Sep 17 01:10:18 <umdk1d3> which make sense, its the first step
Sep 17 01:10:28 <umdk1d3> and bootloader stuff is hard and custom work usually
Sep 17 01:10:43 <snadge> well i was assuming as this project matures to the point where its more stable
Sep 17 01:10:57 <snadge> that you'll be able to install it in place of winmo
Sep 17 01:11:05 <snadge> maybe even dual boot, that would be cool ;)
Sep 17 01:11:15 <umdk1d3> lol dual boot cell phones
Sep 17 01:11:37 <snadge> yeah.. turn it off, turn it on.. and it asks "winmo or android" :p
Sep 17 01:12:03 <snadge> like grub
Sep 17 01:14:36 <Dougie187> what a waste of time though.
Sep 17 01:14:47 <Dougie187> if you could use something else, why would you touch winmo?
Sep 17 01:15:10 <snadge> simple.. one is supported by your phone provider, one isnt
Sep 17 01:15:21 <snadge> like anyone who dual boots windows with linux
Sep 17 01:16:05 <Dougie187> noone dual boots windows because the computers don't come with linux on them.
Sep 17 01:16:11 <snadge> chances are, winmo has an application or something you need which android doesnt
Sep 17 01:16:13 <Dougie187> they dual boot because they can't run stuff they want on linux.
Sep 17 01:16:30 <Dougie187> i don't think anyone would find dual booting a cell phone to be useful enough to do that though
Sep 17 01:16:34 <f00f-> i got rid of linux :)
Sep 17 01:16:37 <f00f-> i'm all XP now
Sep 17 01:16:37 <umdk1d3> =O
Sep 17 01:16:42 <umdk1d3> srsly?
Sep 17 01:16:46 <f00f-> well i bought a new lappy
Sep 17 01:16:47 <Dougie187> lol f00f- your a loser.
Sep 17 01:16:49 <f00f-> havent put linux on it
Sep 17 01:16:52 <snadge> or the situation where somethings not working properly.. and you want to get some support.. you boot into winmo, and then ring up.. and pretend you dont have android on your phone (which is unsupported)
Sep 17 01:16:59 <f00f-> i've spent 10 years using linux
Sep 17 01:17:01 <Dougie187> so you didn't get rid of linux, you just didnt get rid of xp.
Sep 17 01:17:08 <snadge> if the phone comes with android and android is a supported platform for that phone.. theres is NO point in dual booting
Sep 17 01:17:17 <f00f-> and it's still hit for the notebook/laptop industry
Sep 17 01:17:20 <f00f-> although i have stringent requirements
Sep 17 01:17:32 <f00f-> `it must not crash randomly after updates` being one of them
Sep 17 01:18:04 <f00f-> do you think someone will try to run winmo on their android device?
Sep 17 01:18:06 <umdk1d3> <3 atheros wifi
Sep 17 01:18:08 <Dougie187> snadge: i still don't think it would be useful enough to try t odo.
Sep 17 01:18:17 <f00f-> is it even possible ?
Sep 17 01:18:24 <Dougie187> who knows.
Sep 17 01:18:29 <snadge> meaning that less people would be encouraged to try android on a phone where its not supported
Sep 17 01:18:41 <umdk1d3> hmm
Sep 17 01:18:50 <snadge> i mean.. what kind of an IDIOT would replace their supported mobile phone platform.. with one which is unsupported, and have no choice to go back easily
Sep 17 01:18:52 <umdk1d3> well android is all java unless you provide some sort of emulation library
Sep 17 01:19:17 <umdk1d3> so doing os-emulation is pretty much out of the question on dalvik
Sep 17 01:19:44 <Adamant> well there are mini-OS'es written for JVM
Sep 17 01:19:59 <Adamant> but you can't do WIndows or whatever on it
Sep 17 01:20:00 <snadge> the fact that you can try android, by booting into winmo and launching the boot loader.. is awesome, means people can try it.. without bricking their phone
Sep 17 01:20:38 <snadge> but its of limited use if you wanted to use it more often than not.. and inconvenient that you have to boot into winmo first.. hence, a dual boot option not only makes sense.. would be awesome
Sep 17 01:21:44 <snadge> its not going to happen though :)
Sep 17 01:22:38 <snadge> im just going to buy a dream when they come out and be done with it.. im not going to stuff around trying to run android on things that its not supposed to
Sep 17 01:22:43 <Dougie187> i still don't see the use in dual booting.
Sep 17 01:22:49 <Dougie187> i think anyone who wants android will just go all out
Sep 17 01:23:02 <Dougie187> or leave the recovery option in their phone so they can flash it back to normal as needed.
Sep 17 01:23:04 <Dougie187> but ionno
Sep 17 01:23:06 <snadge> unless it doesnt work 100% on that phone
Sep 17 01:23:27 <snadge> in which case, i guess you woudln't be interested in using it
Sep 17 01:23:39 <snadge> but maybe its an obscure function that you dont often use anyway
Sep 17 01:23:59 <Dougie187> I can't imagine a person dual booting a phone for one app though.
Sep 17 01:24:04 <snadge> flashing back and forth is not a practical option
Sep 17 01:24:07 <Dougie187> as opposed to windows vs. linux on a laptop i could see it.
Sep 17 01:24:13 <Dougie187> no not flashing back and forth.
Sep 17 01:24:21 <Dougie187> flashing if you need to send your phone in for repair or something.
Sep 17 01:24:26 <Dougie187> otherwise leaving android on it.
Sep 17 01:24:40 <snadge> yeah i dont see that .. especially on unsupported models
Sep 17 01:24:47 <snadge> you're not going to leave android on it
Sep 17 01:24:52 <snadge> unless it works perfectly
Sep 17 01:24:59 <Dougie187> thats why you leave the flashing method.
Sep 17 01:25:03 <Dougie187> so you can flash it back if you need to.
Sep 17 01:25:10 <Dougie187> defaults back to winmo
Sep 17 01:25:16 <snadge> i guess.. then theres the "coolness" factor
Sep 17 01:25:24 <Dougie187> coolness?
Sep 17 01:25:31 <snadge> booting into android, just for giggles .. or "because you can"
Sep 17 01:25:37 <Dougie187> dual booting doesn't have a coolness.
Sep 17 01:25:39 <snadge> to show somebody something, or whatever
Sep 17 01:25:45 <Dougie187> well just boot the emulator on your comp
Sep 17 01:25:54 <snadge> or to boast that your phone can boot into multiple operating systems
Sep 17 01:25:59 <Dougie187> or go buy a compatible phone.
Sep 17 01:26:09 <snadge> hehe
Sep 17 01:26:58 <snadge> triple boot with symbian for bonus points ;)
Sep 17 01:27:12 <Dougie187> if you can fit all that stuff on your phone.
Sep 17 01:28:17 <snadge> i guess what i really need to know is.. if i buy a htc dream when im in the uk or usa in november
Sep 17 01:28:29 <snadge> will i be able to use it in australia
Sep 17 01:28:33 <Dougie187> noone knows yet.
Sep 17 01:28:52 <Dougie187> you'll have to wait and see if they have it released in australia yet.
Sep 17 01:28:58 <Dougie187> or you could call tmobile and see after it comes out.
Sep 17 01:29:01 <snadge> im assuming the answer is yes .. i mean, google is going on about how android is supposed to be fair and unlocked etc
Sep 17 01:29:05 <Dougie187> though they probably won't be able to help you.
Sep 17 01:29:16 <Dougie187> fair and unlocked?
Sep 17 01:29:26 <Dougie187> ive heard "open"
Sep 17 01:29:34 <Dougie187> unlocked is up to the carriers afaik.
Sep 17 01:29:39 <snadge> well .. maybe the reporting on it has been confused
Sep 17 01:29:52 <snadge> people confusing "open" with "unlocked"
Sep 17 01:30:07 <Dougie187> yeah
Sep 17 01:30:08 <snadge> since they have no idea what open really means ;)
Sep 17 01:30:28 <snadge> but i believe i read a statement saying that google doesnt want it to be locked into providers etc
Sep 17 01:30:37 <snadge> that you should be able to freely change between network providers
Sep 17 01:30:48 <Dougie187> yeah, but i don't think that call is up to google alone.
Sep 17 01:30:55 <Dougie187> thats something you have to get the providers to agree to
Sep 17 01:30:56 <snadge> it should be
Sep 17 01:31:13 <Dougie187> or else they won't sell your phones.
Sep 17 01:31:24 <snadge> it should be a condition of using android that you're not under contract to any particular mobile phone network and have the ability to change
Sep 17 01:31:45 <Dougie187> yeah i can't imaging that happening.
Sep 17 01:31:46 <snadge> but then they risk providers not using android
Sep 17 01:32:03 <snadge> i personally think its wrong
Sep 17 01:32:13 <Dougie187> but thats a personal opinion.
Sep 17 01:32:19 <snadge> what kind of business says.. okay, i'll sell you something.. but on the condition that you only buy from me, and you cant buy from anyone else for 2 years
Sep 17 01:32:28 <Dougie187> and definitely not how the carriers view business practicies.
Sep 17 01:32:29 <snadge> that should be illegal
Sep 17 01:32:49 <snadge> its anticompetetive.. and if its not illegal, at the very least its immoral
Sep 17 01:33:03 <f00f-> skip the U.S. market and don't think back! :D
Sep 17 01:33:25 <snadge> coming back to another point.. most phones, even if they are locked.. can be "unlocked"
Sep 17 01:33:49 <snadge> whether thats legal or not is irrelevant .. if i can buy a tmobile in america, and then unlock it.. and use it in australia.. i will
Sep 17 01:34:23 <unix_infidel> well, most of the first generation iphones made in the US were essentially shipped back to where they were made, china.
Sep 17 01:34:38 <unix_infidel> http://uk.youtube.com/user/GoogleDevelopers
Sep 17 01:34:42 <unix_infidel> omfg, funniest talk ever.
Sep 17 01:35:07 <snadge> iphones .. first or second gen.. can be unlocked though right?
Sep 17 01:35:17 <snadge> in fact, as far as i understand, its even trivial to do
Sep 17 01:35:44 <Adamant> first gen can be unlocked easilyt
Sep 17 01:35:47 <unix_infidel> first generation i believe is fairly trivial, second generation i dont think has been done yet.
Sep 17 01:35:48 <snadge> not that i would ever buy an iphone, which is why i cant speak authoritatively about them
Sep 17 01:35:48 <Adamant> 3G cannot
Sep 17 01:36:15 <Adamant> get an ITouch, they're pretty decent as a media player with "extras"
Sep 17 01:36:19 <snadge> oh.. so theres a good chance that the tmobile wont be able to be unlocked then :(
Sep 17 01:36:21 <Adamant> and no contract
Sep 17 01:36:49 <snadge> i obviously cant buy it unless i can be sure it can be unlocked
Sep 17 01:36:59 <snadge> even if theres a "legit" way to do it that costs money .. i'll consider that
Sep 17 01:37:49 <unix_infidel> well, hopefully you wont need to "unlock" the android phone.
Sep 17 01:38:01 <f00f-> unix_infidel: you were being sarcastic. you fool. you made me watch that!
Sep 17 01:38:34 <unix_infidel> i have a feeling that the first generation handset will suck though. android itself is already pretty solid.
Sep 17 01:38:45 <unix_infidel> f00f-: meh, it has it's funny parts.
Sep 17 01:38:53 <unix_infidel> I totally agree on the rails stuf.
Sep 17 01:38:55 <Adamant> unix_infidel: I'm not sure. HTC makes really good handsets
Sep 17 01:39:10 <Adamant> unix_infidel: is that the DjangoCon one?
Sep 17 01:39:14 <unix_infidel> Adamant: agreed, but will they make a good handset this time for an open source OS with no kickbacks?
Sep 17 01:39:19 <unix_infidel> Adamant: yea.
Sep 17 01:39:22 <Adamant> why not?
Sep 17 01:39:31 <Adamant> they get paid for the phone, not the OS
Sep 17 01:39:45 <Adamant> now they don't even have to license WinMo
Sep 17 01:40:22 <unix_infidel> Adamant: right, they dont have a market edge, any OEM could work with google the next day and compete, do they have an incentive?  maybe.
Sep 17 01:40:39 <Adamant> WInMo is not a market edge
Sep 17 01:40:46 <Adamant> everyone and their brother licenses it
Sep 17 01:40:58 <Adamant> and not every OEM can produce a HTC quality phone
Sep 17 01:41:08 <Adamant> in fact most can't even come close
Sep 17 01:41:22 <unix_infidel> Adamant: we'll see, I'm cautiously optimistic.
Sep 17 01:41:37 <Adamant> most of the competition for HTC will be downmarket
Sep 17 01:41:51 <Adamant> cheaper and less featureful smartphones
Sep 17 01:42:01 <unix_infidel> hope the pricing stays under 300-400.
Sep 17 01:42:24 <Adamant> high pricing for some model is fine, if you're getting a really awesome phone
Sep 17 01:43:00 <unix_infidel> agreed, but there are a billion ways for this deal to screw the consumer over.
Sep 17 01:43:19 <unix_infidel> as usual in this market segment.
Sep 17 01:43:29 <Adamant> if they start screwing consumers they won't be able to differentiate themselves
Sep 17 01:44:02 <Adamant> if you want a really nice phone run by a control freak company and carrier, the iPhone already exists
Sep 17 01:44:55 <unix_infidel> i need a new phone pretty bad, i'll probably get an android phone regardless.
Sep 17 01:45:33 <Adamant> if they don't keep the quality up on Android, then people will just keep buying WinMo since they can buy that already for less
Sep 17 01:46:09 <unix_infidel> what's licensing cost for windows mobile like
Sep 17 01:46:22 <Adamant> no idea
Sep 17 01:46:47 <Adamant> probably more than getting support for using Android in a phone
Sep 17 01:48:10 <Adamant> one thing I do hope is that Google gets better designers working on Android 2.0's look and feel
Sep 17 01:48:50 <Adamant> I'm pretty much accepting at this point that the UI will not be as nice as the iPhone, except that I can actually type
Sep 17 01:50:57 <Adamant> Google can do pretty good design when it wants to.
Sep 17 01:53:31 <duey> <3 chrome
Sep 17 01:53:32 <unix_infidel> meh, the design is functional enough.
Sep 17 01:53:34 * Adamant apologizes if I offended any lurking Android UI designers, I'm sure they worked hard
Sep 17 01:54:20 <duey> whats wrong with the current android ui
Sep 17 01:54:24 <duey> better than most
Sep 17 01:54:28 <unix_infidel> there's no way to say it's a couple years late, because we dont know when the design aspect was production ready.
Sep 17 01:54:57 <Adamant> duey: it just doesn't look really visually appealing
Sep 17 01:55:10 <Adamant> it's not bad
Sep 17 01:55:15 <duey> so you would prefer a vista UI?
Sep 17 01:55:19 <Adamant> it's definitely not as ugly as WinMo
Sep 17 01:55:24 <duey> you dont wont to overkill the ui
Sep 17 01:55:27 <Adamant> duey: think Apple, not MS
Sep 17 01:55:36 <duey> because it takes your concentration away from the task
Sep 17 01:55:46 <duey> sure but you cant blatently copy apple ui
Sep 17 01:55:56 <Adamant> duey: right but you can do one as good
Sep 17 01:56:25 <Adamant> anyway. UI gets really subjective and personal beyond stuff like efficency which you can quantify
Sep 17 01:56:39 <unix_infidel> i think the usability principles are all there.
Sep 17 01:56:52 <unix_infidel> the design stuff really is trivial, as long as the framework is as extensible as they say it is.
Sep 17 01:57:15 <Adamant> unix_infidel: it's so trivial that only a handful of companies get it right
Sep 17 01:57:48 <Adamant> making things look really nice is not easy.
Sep 17 01:58:03 <unix_infidel> Adamant: well this isnt a company. this is a community of people doing what they want because they can.
Sep 17 01:58:06 <Adamant> otherwise they'd pay good designers less.
Sep 17 01:58:31 <Adamant> unix_infidel: right, I'm not talking about imposing one true UI/look
Sep 17 01:58:39 <unix_infidel> google is counting on good designers contributing to the project.
Sep 17 01:58:40 <Adamant> but the default one should be really nice
Sep 17 01:58:57 <Adamant> unix_infidel: that's not a bright move
Sep 17 01:59:13 <Adamant> most designers could give a shit about open source. they want to be paid
Sep 17 01:59:43 <Adamant> they've happily work on open source if paid to do so
Sep 17 01:59:50 <Adamant> *they'll
Sep 17 01:59:54 <unix_infidel> really, that's why there are a bajillion different themes for firefox, windows xp, great open source applications that are well designed.
Sep 17 02:00:06 <Adamant> ugh
Sep 17 02:00:34 <unix_infidel> you create an open market coupled with a marketplace.  you get incentive from both ends.
Sep 17 02:00:45 <Adamant> most of those themes are craptastic. I don't believe in blocking people from loading them if they want, but that's not an excuse not to have a nice default theme
Sep 17 02:01:11 <Adamant> and you'll notice Firefox 3 is heavily influenced by Safari's theme
Sep 17 02:01:39 <Adamant> which was done by designers getting paid by a proprietary company
Sep 17 02:01:43 <unix_infidel> Windows XP's theme is pretty crappy too. Once you hack together extensibility for something designers and engineers could potentially use everyday you are not without involvement.
Sep 17 02:02:00 <SanMehat> Adamant: I've been doing open source since linux 0.99pl13.
Sep 17 02:02:04 <SanMehat> Adamant: and I work on Android...
Sep 17 02:02:33 <Adamant> SanMehat: as a designer?
Sep 17 02:02:55 <SanMehat> Adamant: i do design parts of it. many do.
Sep 17 02:03:07 <Adamant> UI-wise?
Sep 17 02:03:21 <SanMehat> No, more the stuff under the hood.
Sep 17 02:03:26 <Adamant> yeah.
Sep 17 02:03:35 <SanMehat> or some of it... but as I said.. many people are involved with the design.
Sep 17 02:04:15 <SanMehat> anyways, I only bring it up because I take exception to your comment about 'most designers not giving a shit about open source'... at least when it comes to the Android team.. I strongly disagree :)
Sep 17 02:05:04 <Adamant> SanMehat: software designers and engineering type love open source. I'm one of those and I love it
Sep 17 02:05:56 <gambler> <Adamant> most designers could give a shit about open source. they want to be paid
Sep 17 02:06:09 <Adamant> but I have to admit that most open source UI's are crappy and that work with graphic/UI/usability people is necessary to make a good UI, and those people don't particularly care about open source
Sep 17 02:06:20 <SanMehat> hang on, SIGWIFE
Sep 17 02:06:23 <Adamant> not saying Android UI is crappy, it isn't
Sep 17 02:06:37 <Adamant> it's probably about as good as Firefox's
Sep 17 02:06:47 <Adamant> which is pretty good for open source
Sep 17 02:07:19 <SanMehat> sorry back.
Sep 17 02:07:32 <Adamant> gambler: I should have clarified that. I'm not taking about the usual software dev, but graphics types
Sep 17 02:08:13 <Adamant> and I only know a handful of graphics types but none of them I have met care about that sort of stuff much if at all
Sep 17 02:08:25 <SanMehat> you may want to discuss it with romainguy_ at some point :)
Sep 17 02:08:45 <Adamant> ah, he can beat me for my comments then
Sep 17 02:09:39 <f00f-> $SIG{'WIFE'} = undef;
Sep 17 02:09:54 <unix_infidel> SanMehat: going to bug you by email, the on in your /whois ircname is valid?
Sep 17 02:10:01 <unix_infidel> one*
Sep 17 02:10:21 <Adamant> anyway, I think nobody's yet gotten around having to pay graphic/UI/usability people significant money to make them work on things happily.
Sep 17 02:10:35 <Adamant> and to get really good ones.
Sep 17 02:11:10 <yakischloba> last I checked the people working on android were getting paid
Sep 17 02:11:14 <yakischloba> and the UI is pretty outstanding
Sep 17 02:11:39 <yakischloba> seems to me that the difference between androids UI and the iphones is all personal preference
Sep 17 02:12:11 <Adamant> yakischloba: I'm probably just being a big Apple-design fanboy spoiled baby
Sep 17 02:12:29 <yakischloba> I thoroughly enjoy Apple's stuff
Sep 17 02:12:37 <yakischloba> i'm a mac user and I wouldn't want it any other way
Sep 17 02:12:43 <plusminus_> I love the login screen
Sep 17 02:12:47 <plusminus_> (from android=
Sep 17 02:12:48 <unix_infidel> yakischloba: as much as I agree that future iterations will have design and usability improvements, you cant rely on the project core to contribute to a project you've made available to the community to play with.
Sep 17 02:12:48 <plusminus_> )
Sep 17 02:13:38 <SanMehat> Adamant: oh yeah.. i should have mentioned... they *do* pay me :)
Sep 17 02:13:45 <yakischloba> shrug
Sep 17 02:14:10 <yakischloba> I think you guys are overanalyzing something that you most likely haven't used for any extended period of time on a device yet
Sep 17 02:14:16 <yakischloba> and of course neither have I
Sep 17 02:14:19 <unix_infidel> well I should say you can rely on them, you just cant expect them to always have the best ideas for everyone.
Sep 17 02:14:48 <unix_infidel> yakischloba: I think 90% of us are doing that, whether we like to admit it or not.
Sep 17 02:14:58 <Adamant> yakischloba: that's true. this is mostly first impressions and me putzing around with the SDK
Sep 17 02:15:03 <yakischloba> judge it when its been your daily phone for a month
Sep 17 02:15:08 <Adamant> yup.
Sep 17 02:15:20 <yakischloba> chances are what is going to be released on the phone is significantly different than the latest SDK anyways
Sep 17 02:16:17 <gambler> where is jasta to do some bitch slapping when you need him
Sep 17 02:16:20 <gambler> all I know is if you worked for me Adamant I'd be sending Terry around to your cubicle
Sep 17 02:16:24 <unix_infidel> no video camera allowed at Developer Day today?
Sep 17 02:16:26 <yakischloba> yeah seriously
Sep 17 02:16:28 <gambler> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oU1jra7RKCQ
Sep 17 02:17:09 <gambler> that vid is so f awesome
Sep 17 02:17:14 <unix_infidel> lol.
Sep 17 02:17:26 <SanMehat> gambler: re:
Sep 17 02:17:28 <SanMehat> how you doibg man?
Sep 17 02:18:06 <gambler> SanMehat, Im going crazy because the elliptical trainer I installed in my home gym is broken and the morons I paid 5K to for it are taking forever to fix it
Sep 17 02:18:11 <plusminus_> :-D
Sep 17 02:18:12 <gambler> im on mad sick tilt right now over it
Sep 17 02:18:40 <SanMehat> weak-sauce
Sep 17 02:19:28 <gambler> whats that?
Sep 17 02:19:54 <yakischloba> lol
Sep 17 02:20:10 <Adamant> gambler: why would you pay 5k for an elliptical?
Sep 17 02:20:21 <yakischloba> because its covered in diamonds
Sep 17 02:20:24 <yakischloba> jealous!
Sep 17 02:20:40 <Adamant> you could buy a Concept 2 gym grade rower or a gym grade Versaclimber for less
Sep 17 02:20:41 <gambler> because I wanted a really good one...that wasnt supposed to break
Sep 17 02:20:52 <Adamant> both of which will give you a better workout and not break
Sep 17 02:21:02 <gambler> I also got a complete dumbell set with that
Sep 17 02:21:06 <Adamant> ah
Sep 17 02:21:23 <Adamant> I just use adjustable Oly dumbbells
Sep 17 02:22:06 <gambler> I got those hexagonal ones...they are mostly for show though because I F ed up my elbow playing tennis
Sep 17 02:22:13 <Adamant> ah
Sep 17 02:23:08 <gambler> the adjustables are ok but I figured it would be a big pain to adjust them
Sep 17 02:23:36 <plusminus_> SensorManager.getSensors() returns 0 within the emulator ...? is that correct ?
Sep 17 02:24:06 <Adamant> buy 3 cheap set, put good collars on them, and then use Oly plates for both your dumbbell and barbell
Sep 17 02:24:15 <Adamant> much cheaper in the long run.
Sep 17 02:24:40 <unix_infidel> agreed.
Sep 17 02:25:09 <unix_infidel> i need to look into getting a weight vest too.  used to be able to run an 8 minute mile after I trained with that thing.
Sep 17 02:25:39 <Adamant> unix_infidel: Vmax is good for max weight, and the SmartVest is good for comfortable lighter weights
Sep 17 02:25:54 <Adamant> for running only you'd probably want a SmartVest
Sep 17 02:26:38 <Adamant> those are the fancy ones, you can also redneck-rig a boxing weight vest for jogging and running but it won't be as comfortable
Sep 17 02:27:03 <Adamant> they're more made for doing cathelstics
Sep 17 02:27:12 <unix_infidel> Adamant: i usually do lighter weights for any jogging and and heavy weights for sprints.
Sep 17 02:27:43 <Adamant> well Vmax goes up to 84pds and is designed for weight lifters and firefighters to get real use out of
Sep 17 02:28:00 <yakischloba> you mean "calisthentics"?
Sep 17 02:28:10 <yakischloba> calisthenics*
Sep 17 02:28:12 <gambler> yakischloba, that diamond studded model sounds like pure sex :p
Sep 17 02:28:32 <yakischloba> gambler: yeah man I figured you'd have been all over it. Mine is awesome.
Sep 17 02:28:45 <yakischloba> gambler: it hasn't broken either ;
Sep 17 02:28:46 <yakischloba> ;)
Sep 17 02:28:52 <Adamant> whereas the Smartvest goes to 20 or 30 or 40 (I forget), but few people run over 20 pds anyway since it starts getting dangerous
Sep 17 02:29:03 <Adamant> and it's much more comfortable and natural
Sep 17 02:29:27 <Adamant> they're both adjustable so you can adjust them up and down within limits
Sep 17 02:29:29 <yakischloba> hey if you want some extra weight to run with, take a desk job and start drinking a lot.
Sep 17 02:29:34 <gambler> yakischloba, I need that equipment to deal with the mad tilt I experience every day doing you know what
Sep 17 02:29:44 <Adamant> yakischloba: already done it, that's why I'm working out
Sep 17 02:29:59 <yakischloba> heh
Sep 17 02:30:17 <Adamant> and yeah I meant calisthenics
Sep 17 02:30:24 <Adamant> just can't type today
Sep 17 02:30:34 <unix_infidel> yakischloba: like lawyers?
Sep 17 02:30:47 <yakischloba> sure
Sep 17 02:30:55 <Adamant> unix_infidel: they do too much coke and meth
Sep 17 02:31:04 <Adamant> weight doesn't stick around
Sep 17 02:31:29 <unix_infidel> nor do they.
Sep 17 02:34:20 <gambler> he went to shoot up
Sep 17 02:34:31 <unix_infidel> must be one of those bay area nerds.
Sep 17 02:34:42 <unix_infidel> a native.
Sep 17 02:35:04 <yakischloba> :/
Sep 17 02:35:32 * gambler starts tying off
Sep 17 02:39:51 <gambler> wasn this part of the theme from mallrats
Sep 17 02:39:52 <gambler> http://cbs13.com/watercooler/selling.virginity.tuition.2.814271.html
Sep 17 02:41:36 <ttuttle> greetings
Sep 17 02:42:10 <ttuttle> ahaberla1h, fadden, SanMehat, romainguy, romainguy_: ping
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Wed Sep 17 02:59:57 2008