**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat Oct 25 02:59:57 2008
Oct 25 03:00:39 <After_Math> can anyone tell me how I can ssh into my computer form outside the lan?
Oct 25 03:00:53 <michaelnovakjr_> After_Math: by IP
Oct 25 03:01:01 <yakischloba> is this #networking_for_dummies or something?
Oct 25 03:01:06 <yakischloba> ;)
Oct 25 03:01:08 <michaelnovakjr_> After_Math: and not really an android question
Oct 25 03:01:12 <michaelnovakjr_> :)
Oct 25 03:01:28 <w0rm5> aff
Oct 25 03:01:43 <gambler> hey what IP address do you guys get. Is the G1 on IPv6?
Oct 25 03:01:50 <yakischloba> gambler: no
Oct 25 03:02:08 <unix_infidel> anyone seen plusminus
Oct 25 03:02:11 <gambler> figured as much
Oct 25 03:02:26 <michaelnovakjr_> gambler: wifi gets an IP
Oct 25 03:02:27 <After_Math> michaelnovakjr, ya I know but Im using connectbot, just using my outside ip and opening the port on the router?
Oct 25 03:02:43 <michaelnovakjr_> you need to route to your machine port 22
Oct 25 03:02:51 <michaelnovakjr_> and use your outside ip address
Oct 25 03:02:53 <yakischloba> "port forwarding"
Oct 25 03:02:53 <After_Math> ya I think I did tht
Oct 25 03:02:56 <trigatch4> foof: thanks a billion!
Oct 25 03:03:07 <unix_infidel> his screencasts arent working...
Oct 25 03:03:09 <michaelnovakjr_> yakischloba: yea "port forwarding"
Oct 25 03:03:16 <Dougie187> SPLAT
Oct 25 03:03:19 <After_Math> doesnt seem to connect, Under the firewall settings i set it open to my comp
Oct 25 03:03:20 <trigatch4> OUCH
Oct 25 03:03:59 <gambler> so what transport is eg. google mail running over?
Oct 25 03:04:24 <gambler> (if you are only getting an IP address on WIFI?)
Oct 25 03:04:25 <yakischloba> gambler: 3g uses IP as well.
Oct 25 03:04:29 <SamSerious_> nice netsplit
Oct 25 03:04:38 <gambler> so can I ping your phone?
Oct 25 03:04:46 <yakischloba> no.
Oct 25 03:05:03 <SamSerious_> OK Im i here??
Oct 25 03:05:30 <Disconnect> kinda
Oct 25 03:07:43 <languish>  <gambler> so can I ping your phone? <- 3g pickup lines?
Oct 25 03:07:53 <languish> :|
Oct 25 03:07:56 <michaelnovakjr_> does the market have a website?
Oct 25 03:08:07 <Dougie187> michaelnovakjr_: a demo web site.
Oct 25 03:08:13 <Dougie187> www.android.com/market iirc
Oct 25 03:08:24 <michaelnovakjr_> Dougie187: thanks
Oct 25 03:08:26 <Dougie187> np
Oct 25 03:10:14 <languish> so far, I really love the screen mechanism
Oct 25 03:10:25 <languish> for sliding it out..
Oct 25 03:10:51 <languish> I drive everyone nuts sitting around snapping it open/closed repeatedly
Oct 25 03:11:25 <unix_infidel> are there any more high quality video tutorials up?
Oct 25 03:11:49 <languish> ahh fuck
Oct 25 03:11:53 <languish> my g1 died again
Oct 25 03:11:55 <languish> wtf
Oct 25 03:11:57 <unix_infidel> i should say screencasts, video presentations / tutorials are hard to present / have people play along with.
Oct 25 03:13:01 <michaelnovakjr_> languish: its all that sliding out and snapping it shut :)
Oct 25 03:13:23 <languish> michaelnovakjr, yeah.. wasn;t doing it this time
Oct 25 03:13:26 <languish> *sigh*
Oct 25 03:14:38 <languish> ok yeah, it's really dead, charging light doesn't go on when I plug it in
Oct 25 03:14:41 <languish> *sigh*
Oct 25 03:14:46 <languish> f'ing htc
Oct 25 03:15:01 <languish> time to try removing the battery again
Oct 25 03:16:13 <wastrel> quit hacking it
Oct 25 03:16:16 <languish> that did it
Oct 25 03:16:16 <wastrel> then it won't break
Oct 25 03:16:18 <languish> grrr
Oct 25 03:16:21 <unix_infidel> anyone on screencasts?
Oct 25 03:16:49 <languish> wastrel, i'm just a lowly gadget geek, no hacking involved
Oct 25 03:19:23 <jasta> umdk: how do i hit alt+number in connectbot?
Oct 25 03:19:25 <languish> Does the G1 have some type of shock protection? Shuts down when it detects too much momentum or something?
Oct 25 03:19:50 <jasta> languish: there are no moving parts to stop
Oct 25 03:19:57 <yakischloba> Why would it do that? Does it have moving parts to protect?...
Oct 25 03:20:06 <languish> jasta, i know.
Oct 25 03:20:11 <Dougie187> yakischloba: a sensitive compass. :)
Oct 25 03:20:30 <yakischloba> Dougie187: can it be 'parked' ?
Oct 25 03:20:33 <languish> jasta, i'm just wondering if the accelerometer is used in that manner
Oct 25 03:20:44 <Dougie187> yakischloba: hell yeah. don't you like parking compasses.
Oct 25 03:20:55 <jasta> no because that would be pointless
Oct 25 03:20:56 <gambler> it sends a VOID_WARRANTY message off to google.com
Oct 25 03:21:02 <languish> fuck
Oct 25 03:21:06 <languish> it just did it again
Oct 25 03:21:09 <yakischloba> HAHAHA gambler
Oct 25 03:21:10 <yakischloba> perfect
Oct 25 03:21:14 <Dougie187> lol
Oct 25 03:21:16 <languish> ok I do have to rma this
Oct 25 03:21:21 <gambler> :p
Oct 25 03:21:23 <f00f-> sux bro, what did you do
Oct 25 03:21:25 <umdk1d3> jasta: you type /window 8  :P
Oct 25 03:21:28 <yakischloba> Dougie187: I haven't actually seen the compass in use yet
Oct 25 03:21:28 <umdk1d3> in irssi at least
Oct 25 03:21:31 <umdk1d3> not fixed yet
Oct 25 03:21:32 <jasta> lol
Oct 25 03:21:34 <languish> f00f-, just opening/closing the screen
Oct 25 03:21:34 <yakischloba> Dougie187: is it only in streetview or something?
Oct 25 03:21:41 <wastrel> /win 8   works :]
Oct 25 03:21:47 <umdk1d3> also, jasta did you figure out that signature issue with manifest cruft hanging around?
Oct 25 03:21:51 <umdk1d3> on your device
Oct 25 03:21:53 <Dougie187> yakischloba: me either. I have no idea, but thats all i ever saw it used for, and it looked completely useless to me.
Oct 25 03:21:57 <jasta> umdk1d3: support menu shortcuts to custom commands...
Oct 25 03:22:14 <jasta> umdk1d3: no i was told to factory reset
Oct 25 03:22:24 <yakischloba> Dougie187: hmm. Man, I haven't found any streetviews around me yet, somehow. I live in a pretty major area and I've tried on main roads and haven't gotten anything
Oct 25 03:22:41 <Dougie187> you have to stand somewhere.
Oct 25 03:22:42 <Dougie187> lol
Oct 25 03:22:43 <umdk1d3> ouch  :/
Oct 25 03:22:44 <Dougie187> in the street.
Oct 25 03:22:50 <yakischloba> yeah
Oct 25 03:22:52 <yakischloba> and look around
Oct 25 03:23:02 <Dougie187> and look at a building. then you point your phone at the building.. and see the building on your phone.. incase you can't see it with your eyes.
Oct 25 03:23:10 <jasta> yakischloba: no street view in seatown
Oct 25 03:23:22 <yakischloba> jasta: no wonder.
Oct 25 03:23:40 <Dougie187> Go down I5 a ways.
Oct 25 03:23:44 <Dougie187> youll get some eventually
Oct 25 03:23:52 <yakischloba> heh
Oct 25 03:23:53 <Dougie187> Down by Toledo it starts.
Oct 25 03:23:56 <yakischloba> like 500 miles?
Oct 25 03:23:57 <yakischloba> oh
Oct 25 03:24:02 <wastrel> we have it in nyc
Oct 25 03:24:13 <Dougie187> if its worth it to you.
Oct 25 03:24:25 <yakischloba> I could care less other than for the novelty
Oct 25 03:24:28 <yakischloba> I know what the damn street looks like
Oct 25 03:24:45 <Dougie187> yeah i know.
Oct 25 03:24:46 <Dougie187> heh
Oct 25 03:24:55 <Dougie187> thats why i always thought it was useless.
Oct 25 03:24:58 * languish calling 611
Oct 25 03:25:01 <languish> *sigh*
Oct 25 03:25:17 <Dougie187> i bet that makes languish a sad panda.
Oct 25 03:25:28 <yakischloba> I wouldn't mind being able to see the compass in Maps though, for the occasional situation where I've lost my sense of direction on a faraway bike ride or something
Oct 25 03:26:12 <Dougie187> yeah that would be pretty sweet.
Oct 25 03:26:23 <yakischloba> wonder why it isn't like that already?..
Oct 25 03:27:06 <illuminum> if street view offerred some sort of accessibility--visual bralle
Oct 25 03:27:22 <yakischloba> eh true
Oct 25 03:27:42 <illuminum> or maybe if the image on the phone (street view) was littered with user-supplied tags
Oct 25 03:27:55 <illuminum> like "don't go here, crackhouse, brothel"
Oct 25 03:28:05 <illuminum> that would be useful
Oct 25 03:28:58 <Dougie187> eh...
Oct 25 03:29:04 <Dougie187> people are going to litter it with too many tags.
Oct 25 03:29:10 <Dougie187> isnt that what stupid enkin was about?
Oct 25 03:29:19 <illuminum> no i doubt it, there are a lot of places to tag
Oct 25 03:29:20 <yakischloba> yeah. you wouldn't be able to see the building after a few days.
Oct 25 03:29:31 <ivan> crackhouses and brothels?
Oct 25 03:29:31 <illuminum> and you could always filter it
Oct 25 03:29:32 <Dougie187> yeah you are going to just see 8 billion tags.
Oct 25 03:29:33 <ivan> awesome
Oct 25 03:29:33 <wastrel> i'm sleepy
Oct 25 03:29:35 <illuminum> 30 most recent or whatever
Oct 25 03:29:50 <illuminum> i'm saying it could be a rich experience if you wanted it to be
Oct 25 03:29:54 <Dougie187> possibly if its implemented like that, but that wouldn't be the first thing anyone goes for.
Oct 25 03:30:40 <Dougie187> im just saying it could also be a completely useless experience.
Oct 25 03:30:56 <Dougie187> it could only be useful if it was implemented correctly.
Oct 25 03:32:21 <illuminum> yeh suppsoe like i said before i'm not so interested in any of these apps so much as i am having a terminal and a shell and root
Oct 25 03:32:33 <Dougie187> yeah
Oct 25 03:32:38 <Dougie187> i think thats how most people feel.
Oct 25 03:32:48 <yakischloba> what is everyone so hung up on root for
Oct 25 03:32:55 <illuminum> what the hell do you think for
Oct 25 03:33:07 <illuminum> not having root is almost as bad as running on windows or mac
Oct 25 03:33:23 <yakischloba> why don't you go buy some cheapo SBC and run linux on it if you just want to dick around as root
Oct 25 03:33:25 <yakischloba> oh
Oct 25 03:33:29 <yakischloba> you're one of those guys
Oct 25 03:33:33 <yakischloba> forget I asked
Oct 25 03:33:37 <illuminum> okay i will
Oct 25 03:33:45 <Dougie187> lol
Oct 25 03:34:40 <Dougie187> so whats your favorite part of the phone yakischloba?
Oct 25 03:35:13 <romainguy> Dougie187: i think thats how most people feel. << you have a very weird definition of "most" :)
Oct 25 03:35:57 <yakischloba> shit I duno man. I've just been enjoying the novelty of it really, since I haven't had much exposure to the iPhone or anything. From a technical standpoint, I've just poked around in the shell a bit. I scrapped the code for my project a while back and started over, but dropped off quickly, so I didn't really have anything ready to play with on the device like a lot of the guys
Oct 25 03:35:58 <illuminum> what is this attitude against having root--i thought android was about openness, not closed systems
Oct 25 03:36:24 <yakischloba> illuminum: android is open, the phone is not. you can build android and run it on your on phone that you build if it pleases you to do so.
Oct 25 03:36:47 <Dougie187> romainguy: true.... i just see it sometimes. possibly not most.. just some.
Oct 25 03:37:07 <yakischloba> illuminum: the licenses are in place so that companies can take the product and lock it down and sell it. The whole project may not have been possible without that provision
Oct 25 03:37:20 <romainguy> Dougie187: considering the people I've seen (and met) buy the phone in stores, I would even dare say that a very very tiny minority cares about root
Oct 25 03:37:39 <fadden0> ...or even know what "root" means
Oct 25 03:37:41 <romainguy> that said I understand why you would want that
Oct 25 03:37:46 <Dougie187> romainguy: depends on what demographic of users you are talking about though...
Oct 25 03:37:49 <illuminum> what they can't sell their telecom service if someone has access to their phone internals?
Oct 25 03:37:50 <romainguy> fadden0: I didn't dare say it
Oct 25 03:37:58 <romainguy> Dougie187: like I said, the users who buy the phone in stores
Oct 25 03:38:01 <romainguy> you know, consumers
Oct 25 03:38:14 <Dougie187> romainguy: i don't care about having it, becuase i don't even have a phone, but yeah. normal customers don't even have any idea what it is.
Oct 25 03:38:18 <romainguy> I for one couldn't care less about being root on my phone
Oct 25 03:38:20 <yakischloba> illuminum: who knows, ask them. You don't have to buy it and feel like you're being oppressed if you don't want to.
Oct 25 03:38:26 <Dougie187> romainguy: i guess what i say most, i am limited my demographic to devs.
Oct 25 03:38:28 <illuminum> i already bought it
Oct 25 03:38:32 <Dougie187> limiting*
Oct 25 03:38:38 <romainguy> I almost feel like some want root just for the sake of being root
Oct 25 03:38:41 <fadden0> I used to be root on my TiVo.  When they built networking into the box and added an eSata connector on the back I stopped caring.
Oct 25 03:38:42 <yakischloba> illuminum: did someone promise that you could have root on it?
Oct 25 03:38:46 <yakischloba> romainguy: you don't say
Oct 25 03:38:48 <Dougie187> romainguy: yeah, its the novelty.
Oct 25 03:38:58 <romainguy> because, seriously, it's just a phone :)
Oct 25 03:39:11 <illuminum> i sold my iphone which i had root on, and metasploit and vim, thinking i was coming back to my friend linux
Oct 25 03:39:23 <parmaster> hahahahah
Oct 25 03:39:23 <illuminum> oh well i'll stop whining because it's only a matter of time
Oct 25 03:39:26 <parmaster> bahahahhhaha
Oct 25 03:39:26 <yakischloba> illuminum: I'll take that as a "no"
Oct 25 03:39:37 <Dougie187> what do you even need root for though?
Oct 25 03:40:04 <gambler> hrrmmm installing a new OS?
Oct 25 03:40:13 <gambler> I guess Im the only pro-root person here
Oct 25 03:40:18 <romainguy> next time we should make T-Mobile release a phone that comes with a shell and X11
Oct 25 03:40:19 <romainguy> oh wait
Oct 25 03:40:19 <fadden0> What, you want to install WinMo on the G1?
Oct 25 03:40:23 <romainguy> that's OpenMoko ^^
Oct 25 03:40:28 <yakischloba> Dougie187: "#" <--- thats about it
Oct 25 03:40:45 <Dougie187> heh
Oct 25 03:40:54 <gambler> In my case, I cant screw around with the bluetooth stuff. thats a concern for me.
Oct 25 03:41:15 <gambler> <-- pro tinker
Oct 25 03:41:20 <djo_> Hi, sorry to break in; ;-)  I'm developing on Fedora 8, have a T-Mobile G1 and am having trouble getting my device connected.  I've followed the directions under "Developing on Device Hardware" on Google's web site and no matter what I put in /etc/udev/rules.d, `adb devices` doesn't find my phone.  Thoughts?
Oct 25 03:41:29 <illuminum> so i can put my own package management system on it, run services, etc and yeah how are you supposed to kernel hack and develop drivers and such if you're into that if you can't get inside the phone
Oct 25 03:41:36 <yakischloba> ah, haven't I heard something about developer hardware being under consideration?
Oct 25 03:41:51 <gambler> pro tinkering I should say
Oct 25 03:42:06 <fadden0> Driver development?
Oct 25 03:42:09 <romainguy> illuminum: well there are tons of stuff you can do without writing kernel hacks
Oct 25 03:42:13 <illuminum> djo, mount -o iocharset=utf8 /dev/sdXn /mnt/foo
Oct 25 03:42:21 <fadden0> Are there devices in the G1 for which drivers are not provided...?
Oct 25 03:42:30 <romainguy> illuminum: why not just write apps to begin with?
Oct 25 03:42:44 <romainguy> fadden0: it's Linux based, so you never know what could be missing :))
Oct 25 03:42:45 <fadden0> bluetooth runs as a non-root daemon.
Oct 25 03:42:49 <illuminum> whatevs i won't settle for anything less than full control--i'm sure it'll come, if it came to the iphone it's inevitable for this platform
Oct 25 03:42:50 <romainguy> (sorry :)
Oct 25 03:43:03 <fadden0> illuminum: very likely
Oct 25 03:43:14 <yakischloba> illuminum: it is also my understand that a large part of the security architecture of the whole platform s dependent on it being locked down. I doubt they would cast that aside so you can have 'full control'
Oct 25 03:43:21 <djo_> illuminum: hmmm; actually FUSE is doing that sort of thing for me right now.  Maybe that's the problem?
Oct 25 03:43:42 <djo_> Let me umount the drive and see if adb finds my device...
Oct 25 03:44:10 <gambler> http://laforge.gnumonks.org/weblog/
Oct 25 03:44:18 <illuminum> right yaki, i accept that it comes with a certain amount of locks
Oct 25 03:44:37 <yakischloba> illuminum: I think OpenMoko would have been better suited to your desires
Oct 25 03:44:38 <illuminum> and ultimately i'm not sore as long as some niche community of hackers breaks through and opens it
Oct 25 03:45:00 <fadden0> illuminum: the easier path would be to install Android on an unlocked device
Oct 25 03:45:11 <yakischloba> unless of course, you're just the guy that wants to have a linux phone with root, rather than actually doing serious development on it.
Oct 25 03:45:11 <fadden0> Given the number of complaints I hear about the G1 form factor, I'm surprised that isn't the focus.
Oct 25 03:46:01 <djo_> illuminum: OK; I can mount the device as a disk fine.  What I can't do is remotely control it from the debugger.  Thanks, but any other thoughts?
Oct 25 03:46:05 <Dougie187> fadden0: the G1 is hardly the focus of this room..
Oct 25 03:46:21 <Dougie187> fadden0: if it were, it would probably be called #G1
Oct 25 03:46:34 <illuminum> no idea
Oct 25 03:46:41 <languish> t-mobiles answer to the g1 dying randomly "keep it for a few more days to see if it keeps happening and we'll call you back to see if you've had further problems"
Oct 25 03:46:46 <languish> *sigh*
Oct 25 03:46:51 <yakischloba> heh
Oct 25 03:46:52 <languish> the rep himself is decent
Oct 25 03:46:57 <illuminum> languish it stops dying
Oct 25 03:47:01 <yakischloba> I'd take it back to the store and demand an exchange.
Oct 25 03:47:05 <illuminum> languish mine did that too for a couple days
Oct 25 03:47:07 <illuminum> then it stopped
Oct 25 03:47:10 <illuminum> i think its a battery issue
Oct 25 03:47:14 <illuminum> that resolves itself
Oct 25 03:47:18 <yakischloba> how assuring
Oct 25 03:47:22 <Dougie187> heh
Oct 25 03:47:26 <tparkin> at least the battery wont explode like some unmentioned companies..
Oct 25 03:47:26 <Dougie187> i would take it back too...
Oct 25 03:47:27 <languish> illuminum I think the battery in mine shakes a little loose
Oct 25 03:47:28 <Dougie187> but thats me.
Oct 25 03:47:31 <illuminum> batteries are probably too fresh
Oct 25 03:47:37 <illuminum> thats what i thought languish
Oct 25 03:47:43 <illuminum> but trust me it stops after about two days
Oct 25 03:47:50 <yakischloba> yeah they need to ripen like bananas
Oct 25 03:47:57 <illuminum> yeah they do
Oct 25 03:47:59 <languish> it's been 4 days :|
Oct 25 03:48:01 <illuminum> evidently
Oct 25 03:48:04 <languish> lol
Oct 25 03:48:06 <illuminum> sook
Oct 25 03:48:06 * waldo_ is away: gym.  back in an hour and that's when sshkey is working, right? 
Oct 25 03:48:29 <illuminum> languish
Oct 25 03:48:32 <djo_> Thanks illuminum, anyone else have any ideas?
Oct 25 03:48:36 <languish> ..
Oct 25 03:48:39 <illuminum> turn off the auto screen turn off feature
Oct 25 03:48:52 <languish> illuminum, that's what I said.. the rep told me not too
Oct 25 03:48:52 <fadden0> djo_: does "lsusb" find the device?
Oct 25 03:48:53 <illuminum> that mightve been the point at which mine stopped turning off
Oct 25 03:48:53 <languish> lol
Oct 25 03:48:53 <illuminum> dunno
Oct 25 03:49:15 <languish> the rep suspects the battery too
Oct 25 03:49:20 <illuminum> well it was definately correlated with when my phone stopped borking
Oct 25 03:49:39 <languish> he doesn't want the display timeout disabled
Oct 25 03:49:44 <languish> so it doesn't stress the battery
Oct 25 03:49:48 <illuminum> disable it and ignore him
Oct 25 03:49:51 <languish> lol
Oct 25 03:50:08 <illuminum> i would see if i could drain it all the way through
Oct 25 03:50:11 <illuminum> then recharge it
Oct 25 03:50:13 <illuminum> see what happens
Oct 25 03:53:13 <djo_> fadden0: It's found as 0bb4:0c02 High Tech Computer Corp.
Oct 25 03:53:49 <tweakt> So how can I get the source of android.jar now that everything is published? Is it somewhere in Git? I couldn't locate it yet after browsing a bit...
Oct 25 03:53:58 <romainguy> tweakt: it's in git
Oct 25 03:54:09 <illuminum> thats vague, wheres the repo
Oct 25 03:54:13 <illuminum> does google code do git
Oct 25 03:54:18 <romainguy> it's basically http://git.source.android.com/?p=platform/frameworks/base.git;a=summary
Oct 25 03:54:22 <romainguy> and http://git.source.android.com/?p=platform/frameworks/opt/com.google.android.git;a=summary
Oct 25 03:54:29 <romainguy> illuminum: no
Oct 25 03:54:32 <tweakt> Ahh, thank you
Oct 25 03:54:41 <romainguy> tweakt: what are you looking for?
Oct 25 03:55:21 <fadden0> djo_: so the computer can see it, but somehow adb isn't talking
Oct 25 03:55:25 <tweakt> source of android.jar ;-) java docs are vague in some areas. I tend to learn APIs quicker when I can confirm my understanding by looking at the source
Oct 25 03:55:38 <romainguy> good luck :)
Oct 25 03:55:44 <djo_> fadden0: yep
Oct 25 03:56:02 <fadden0> You have "enable usb debugging" set on the phone, right?
Oct 25 03:56:03 <djo_> I've been mounting/unmounting it since I got in on Wed to load pics/music, etc.
Oct 25 03:56:06 <languish> illuminum, yeah.. the rep's calling me back in a few days. They're basically hoping the problem will just go away
Oct 25 03:56:22 <languish> if not, then they'll "do something"
Oct 25 03:56:26 <djo_> "enable usb debugging" - triple-checking...
Oct 25 03:56:45 <illuminum> i didn't know it wsan't an isolated problem in my case but judging from my isolated experience it seems that the problem does indeed go away for many at least
Oct 25 03:56:54 <tweakt> 27MB.. yeow
Oct 25 03:56:55 <djo_> usb debugging on == true
Oct 25 03:57:01 <illuminum> false
Oct 25 03:57:11 <romainguy> tweakt: the repository?
Oct 25 03:57:29 <fadden0> djo_: only other thing I can think of is disconnect the device, kill any running "adb" processes, reconnect it, and try "adb devices" again
Oct 25 03:57:29 <tweakt> I got base-HEAD.tgz I think that's what I wanted
Oct 25 03:57:35 <tweakt> not 100% sure
Oct 25 03:57:36 <djo_> mhm; maybe reboot the phone and see if that fixes it?  More likely Fedora needs a different udev  file...
Oct 25 03:58:06 <tweakt> Ok, looks like: base/core/android
Oct 25 03:58:10 <fadden0> djo_: also run "dmesg" and see if anything is freaking out in there
Oct 25 03:58:30 <fadden0> But yes, it's possible that the udev file has a different format.
Oct 25 03:58:40 <yakischloba> what kind of driver does it use for the USB connectivity anyway?
Oct 25 03:58:49 <fadden0> It sounded like some people had success without the udev file when they ran "adb" as root, but I'm not sure about that.
Oct 25 03:59:19 * waldo_ is away: auto-away
Oct 25 03:59:20 <fadden0> yakischloba: it doesn't need a driver; Linux just needs something to help it set up the /dev entry
Oct 25 03:59:20 <djo_> fadden0: dmsg output looks normal.  It finds the device, then finds the file system on the flash card...
Oct 25 04:00:15 <djo_> ...then FUSE automounts the file system normally.
Oct 25 04:00:34 <Dougie187> im out guys.
Oct 25 04:00:35 <Dougie187> see ya later.
Oct 25 04:00:51 <fadden0> djo_: not sure where to go from here.  You can see the device numbers in the "lsusb" output, so if it needs some other magic in the udev rules you'll need to puzzle that out (possibly by looking at other stuff in that directory)
Oct 25 04:01:07 <illuminum> if you had root you could see whats happening in the phone
Oct 25 04:01:17 <fadden0> I believe it changed with the Hardy release of Ubuntu vs. older ubuntu
Oct 25 04:01:24 <fadden0> illuminum: no, you couldn't
Oct 25 04:01:30 <fadden0> because he can't *get* to the phone
Oct 25 04:01:30 <illuminum> lies
Oct 25 04:01:47 <fadden0> You have to connect in first.
Oct 25 04:02:03 <illuminum> if you had root you could put up an ssh daemon
Oct 25 04:02:04 <fadden0> He could run the "term" app and run "dmesg" on the phone, but I'm not sure that'll tell him anything.
Oct 25 04:02:08 <illuminum> and ssh into the phone
Oct 25 04:02:18 <fadden0> illuminum: you can do that without root
Oct 25 04:02:23 <illuminum> :o
Oct 25 04:02:24 <fadden0> Just use a port other than 22.
Oct 25 04:02:25 <illuminum> rrry
Oct 25 04:02:25 <yakischloba> rofl
Oct 25 04:02:26 <illuminum> how
Oct 25 04:02:33 <yakischloba> > 1024
Oct 25 04:02:43 <romainguy> things are getting clearer :)
Oct 25 04:02:45 <fadden0> yakischloba: yes
Oct 25 04:02:46 <illuminum> :o
Oct 25 04:02:59 <MrSoReady> Hello
Oct 25 04:02:59 <djo_> Before I RTFM, anyone know what `SUBSYSTEM=="usb", SYSFS{idVendor}=="0bb4", MODE="0666"` does in a udev rules file?
Oct 25 04:03:17 <MrSoReady> Question: am I able to modify android source and upload it to my G1?
Oct 25 04:03:17 <yakischloba> I thought you were a Linux fanatic or something. That's pretty common knowledge
Oct 25 04:03:28 <romainguy> MrSoReady: yes and no
Oct 25 04:03:39 <djo_> It's creating some device file, mode 0666, but what device name?
Oct 25 04:03:39 <fadden0> djo_: are you in group "plugdev" ?
Oct 25 04:03:39 <romainguy> MrSoReady: at least not with the G1 sold in T-Mobile stores
Oct 25 04:03:46 <MrSoReady> oh ok
Oct 25 04:03:56 <MrSoReady> Where do you get one that you can modify the source
Oct 25 04:04:03 <djo_> fadden0: Nope
Oct 25 04:04:11 <romainguy> MrSoReady: you don't for now; but you can test on the emulator and contribute your patches back
Oct 25 04:04:21 <MrSoReady> ok
Oct 25 04:04:39 <fadden0> djo_: I think you need to be.  Alternatively, become root, kill adb, and run "adb devices" -- should allow access then.
Oct 25 04:04:45 <fadden0> (maybe *that's* what running it as root meant)
Oct 25 04:04:53 <yakischloba> fadden0: negative.
Oct 25 04:04:56 <MrSoReady> Romain if I wanted to write my own Dialer, does the App SDK provide that capability or is that too low level?
Oct 25 04:05:41 <romainguy> MrSoReady: lemme check
Oct 25 04:06:27 <romainguy> MrSoReady: yes you can; you cannot, however, start emergency calls, you will have to invoke the system dialer for this
Oct 25 04:06:43 <djo_>  grep plugdev /etc/group
Oct 25 04:06:43 <djo_> finds nothing.
Oct 25 04:06:54 <fadden0> Hrm.
Oct 25 04:07:08 <djo_> I'll try becoming root; good idea.
Oct 25 04:07:08 <yakischloba> romainguy: that would be 'dangerous' according to some. Is replacing the Dialer allowed, then?
Oct 25 04:07:27 <romainguy> yakischloba: you can write another dialer
Oct 25 04:07:35 <romainguy> it won't replace it in the firmware
Oct 25 04:07:36 <yakischloba> romainguy: ah, but not replace the existing one. gotcha
Oct 25 04:07:38 <romainguy> but you can have another dialer
Oct 25 04:07:44 <romainguy> in practice you replace it yes
Oct 25 04:07:49 <fadden0> Interesting... the online instructions don't have the ', GROUP="plugdev"' part.  Not sure what the default is.
Oct 25 04:07:50 <romainguy> just like you "replace" Home
Oct 25 04:07:53 <encontrafk> Can I write a dialer that sends out tones that T-mobile's voice-mail system can understand?
Oct 25 04:08:00 <romainguy> yes
Oct 25 04:08:01 <yakischloba> yeah.
Oct 25 04:08:05 <MrSoReady> interesting.  I was looking at the android SDK optional apis and none of them seem related to a Dialer
Oct 25 04:08:07 <fadden0> Might be an ubuntu thing.
Oct 25 04:08:07 <romainguy> you can already do so with the current dialer actually
Oct 25 04:08:23 <romainguy> (for isntance a comma in a number will be interpreted as a pause)
Oct 25 04:08:49 <romainguy> MrSoReady: a dialer is just a matter of sending a CALL intent and/or showing the list of Contacts
Oct 25 04:08:55 <encontrafk> The voice-mail thing... it, well, it disappoints me.
Oct 25 04:09:08 <MrSoReady> I use youmail.com and it is kinda cool
Oct 25 04:09:09 <romainguy> encontrafk: well it's a standard voice mail :)
Oct 25 04:09:12 <unix_infidel> encontrafk: no visual voicemail?
Oct 25 04:09:32 <encontrafk> If there's visual, I haven't found it yet.
Oct 25 04:09:34 <MrSoReady> yeah Google didn't take it as far as they could have with the G1
Oct 25 04:09:41 <romainguy> there's no visual voicemail
Oct 25 04:09:50 <fadden0> djo_: look in /dev/bus/usb -- use the bus and device number from lsusb
Oct 25 04:10:04 <djo_> Running as root doesn't find it.
Oct 25 04:10:07 <unix_infidel> MrSoReady: obviously.  but most first iterations don't.  otherwise they'd never get to the first iteration.
Oct 25 04:10:08 <encontrafk> but even if there's visual, why can't I press 7 to delete message, while I'm listening to voicemail?
Oct 25 04:10:11 <romainguy> MrSoReady: hey, the G1 is not Google's phone, we just work on the Adnroid platform
Oct 25 04:10:17 <djo_> Checking /dev/bus/usb...
Oct 25 04:10:19 <romainguy> encontrafk: er... yes you can
Oct 25 04:10:31 <encontrafk> romainguy, no, I'm afraid I can't.
Oct 25 04:10:34 <romainguy> yes you can
Oct 25 04:10:39 <encontrafk> Er, no.
Oct 25 04:10:41 <romainguy> ...
Oct 25 04:10:49 <romainguy> just click the number 7 on the dialpad?
Oct 25 04:10:50 <encontrafk> I can press 7 all I like, and T-mobile just ignores it.
Oct 25 04:10:58 <romainguy> I just used it today
Oct 25 04:11:02 <romainguy> on T-Mobile voicemail
Oct 25 04:11:14 <romainguy> seems like you have an issue with your phone/account
Oct 25 04:11:17 <encontrafk> yes, press 7 on the touch-screen dialer
Oct 25 04:11:25 <encontrafk> voicemail acts like it didn't hear it
Oct 25 04:11:27 <yakischloba> encontrafk: are you trying to say that voicemail is inoperable from the G1 or something?
Oct 25 04:11:40 <yakischloba> encontrafk: you don't think someone else would have noticed this by now?..
Oct 25 04:11:51 <romainguy> encontrafk: contact T-Mobile, there might be an issue with your unit or your account
Oct 25 04:11:52 <encontrafk> yakischloba, no, I can access voicemail
Oct 25 04:11:54 <tparkin> yakischloba: i think hes just experiencing the problem
Oct 25 04:12:01 <tparkin> encontrafk: do a hard reboot?
Oct 25 04:12:03 <encontrafk> dial in, hear the message
Oct 25 04:12:15 <encontrafk> I just can't give it any input
Oct 25 04:12:56 <djo_> fadden0: /dev/bus/usb doesn't exist.  Instead, I have a slew of /dev/usbdevx.y[_ep00] device files...
Oct 25 04:12:59 <romainguy> contact T-Mobile encontrafk
Oct 25 04:12:59 <encontrafk> If "hard reboot" means turn off the device, remove the battery for over 30 seconds, then fire it up again, then yes, I've done that.
Oct 25 04:13:27 <tparkin> I would call tmo then
Oct 25 04:14:26 <encontrafk> have you ever called their customer service line?
Oct 25 04:14:41 <yakischloba> encontrafk: yes
Oct 25 04:14:49 <fadden0> djo_: at this point I'm staring at the adb sources (system/core/adb)
Oct 25 04:15:10 <encontrafk> OK, what's the first thing you have to do, after you dial the number and something on the other end picks up?
Oct 25 04:15:28 <fadden0> djo_: the confusing part is that it has both host and device all mixed together
Oct 25 04:15:30 <yakischloba> heh I get it. Looks like you'd need to use another phone then :(
Oct 25 04:15:39 <encontrafk> aye
Oct 25 04:15:45 <fadden0> usb_linux.c seems to want /dev/bus/usb
Oct 25 04:15:45 <romainguy> encontrafk: go to a T-Mobile store
Oct 25 04:15:52 <romainguy> or call from another line
Oct 25 04:15:55 <MrSoReady> How difficult would it be to write an App to sync with Picasa
Oct 25 04:15:59 <fadden0> djo_: what kernel do you have?
Oct 25 04:15:59 <encontrafk> I'll do better than that, I think
Oct 25 04:16:00 <romainguy> MrSoReady: not difficult
Oct 25 04:16:08 <landslide> how do I get the android stack (not the SDK) to compile out the emulator?
Oct 25 04:16:13 <tparkin> encontrafk: you said your problem is with 7, if so you can stlil call support
Oct 25 04:16:17 <MrSoReady> this is really exciting!
Oct 25 04:16:22 <encontrafk> I have a friend who has a friend in their corporate offices
Oct 25 04:16:23 <tparkin> encontrafk: is it with ALL numbers?  then specifiy
Oct 25 04:16:28 <djo_> fadden0: 2.6.21.7-5.fc8xen
Oct 25 04:16:35 <encontrafk> I'll just "stovepipe" the complaint, I think
Oct 25 04:16:40 <fadden0> djo_: I'm on 2.6.22, so we're not far off
Oct 25 04:16:50 <fadden0> djo_: I also have /dev/usbblah
Oct 25 04:16:52 <unix_infidel> MrSoReady: the hard part is replicating viable features for picasa within a mobile framework within the limitations of a mobile framework and it's inherent environment :-P
Oct 25 04:16:56 <fadden0> do you have /dev/bus at all?
Oct 25 04:17:01 <encontrafk> tparkin, it's not just 7
Oct 25 04:17:11 <encontrafk> it's like the tones just aren't getting sent
Oct 25 04:17:19 <djo_> fadden0: no /dev/bus at all.
Oct 25 04:17:22 <tparkin> encontrafk: their system should timeout and send you to operator
Oct 25 04:17:29 <encontrafk> "should"
Oct 25 04:17:30 <fadden0> djo_: how about /proc/bus/usb ?
Oct 25 04:17:34 <tparkin> encontrafk: try?
Oct 25 04:17:38 <encontrafk> did.
Oct 25 04:18:19 <encontrafk> like I said, though, I'll just put a bug in the ear of someone at corporate
Oct 25 04:18:20 <djo_> fadden0: I have /sys/bus/usb/devices/...
Oct 25 04:18:30 <MrSoReady> whatever that means unix_infidel
Oct 25 04:18:44 <fadden0> djo_: yeah, I have that too
Oct 25 04:19:11 <unix_infidel> MrSoReady: yea.  true dat foo.
Oct 25 04:19:55 <fadden0> djo_: unfortunately we've reached (and possibly surpassed) the depth of my USB knowledge
Oct 25 04:20:17 <fadden0> In particular, I don't know why /proc/bus/usb would be present or absent
Oct 25 04:20:38 <romainguy> ask swetland :)
Oct 25 04:20:57 <djo_> fadden0: I *do* have /proc/bus/usb, but not /dev/bus/usb...
Oct 25 04:20:57 <fadden0> romainguy: yeah
Oct 25 04:21:08 <fadden0> djo_: sorry, I meant /dev/bus/usb
Oct 25 04:21:25 <fadden0> If you look in system/core/adb/usb_linux.c, you can see it searching through that directory
Oct 25 04:22:22 <djo_> fadden0: it probably couldn't hurt to try a symlink from /sys/bus to /dev/bus...?
Oct 25 04:23:00 <fadden0> % ls -l /dev/bus/usb/001/022
Oct 25 04:23:01 <fadden0> crw-rw-r-- 1 root plugdev 189, 21 Oct 24 20:42 /dev/bus/usb/001/022
Oct 25 04:23:02 <illuminum> because it's fedora
Oct 25 04:23:05 <illuminum> and fedora is foobar
Oct 25 04:23:25 <fadden0> I don't have anything in /proc/bus/usb -- the directory exists but is empty
Oct 25 04:23:48 <djo_> illuminum: Point taken. :-)
Oct 25 04:24:34 <fadden0> I'm guessing adb needs a tweak to make it look somewhere else, or something magic needs to happen with the udev file.
Oct 25 04:26:22 <fadden0> I have to sign off for now.  Back eventually. :-)
Oct 25 04:26:27 <djo_> fadden0: Probably.
Oct 25 04:26:30 <djo_> Thanks
Oct 25 04:38:41 * waldo_ is back (gone 00:39:23)
Oct 25 04:43:06 <landslide> how do I get the android stack (not the SDK) to compile out the emulator?
Oct 25 04:44:01 <f00f-> make
Oct 25 04:48:41 * waldo_ is away: auto-away
Oct 25 04:49:40 <landslide> so is the generic target for the emulator?
Oct 25 04:51:59 <BruteSource> okay my friend patched our kernel for excalibur and got the userspace to init but all we get is a flashing green man? any ideas?
Oct 25 04:55:29 <landslide> wow i got it working... 'out/host/linux-x86/bin/emulator -system out/target/product/generic -kernel prebuilt/android-arm/kernel/kernel-qemu'
Oct 25 04:57:09 <BruteSource> on an emulator?
Oct 25 04:59:09 <landslide> yeah.
Oct 25 04:59:37 <landslide> i thought i required another build other than generic.
Oct 25 05:01:24 <BruteSource> what arch type?
Oct 25 05:01:33 <landslide> arm
Oct 25 05:01:51 <BruteSource> really?
Oct 25 05:01:59 <landslide> i think so.
Oct 25 05:02:20 <landslide> i found a doc in build/core/build-systemhtml
Oct 25 05:02:25 <landslide> but some of the information is out of date.
Oct 25 05:03:24 <landslide> it's using the arm kernel.. so it must be arm right?
Oct 25 05:03:42 <BruteSource> nice, my friend is trying on a excalibur an omap850 phone, he has the kernel pacthed and working, got the userspace to init but the android man just blinks
Oct 25 05:04:00 <f00f-> press escape
Oct 25 05:04:04 <landslide> can't you get some debug out of a serial port or something?
Oct 25 05:04:04 <f00f-> to see what's going on behind the scenes
Oct 25 05:05:33 <DarkriftX> wow, never thought to hit escape during boot
Oct 25 05:05:45 <DarkriftX> keep forgetting this isnt a standard mobile os
Oct 25 05:06:23 <BruteSource> ya he is using strace
Oct 25 05:07:26 <BruteSource> giving somekind of loop about function not implemented
Oct 25 05:07:37 <BruteSource> very fast hard to read
Oct 25 05:09:45 <languish> What would the proper term be for the device's abruptly turning off uncleanly, and seizing/locking up/not responding to keypresses, charger..etc until the battery is reseated.  I don't want to say it's "bricked" because it's recoverable with the reseating of the battery
Oct 25 05:10:07 <landslide> half-bricked?
Oct 25 05:10:19 <landslide> maybe stoned?
Oct 25 05:10:21 <languish> soft-bricked, lol
Oct 25 05:10:30 <landslide> hehe
Oct 25 05:10:42 <DarkriftX> lol
Oct 25 05:10:43 <BruteSource> no one has seen errors like this?
Oct 25 05:10:56 <landslide> what hardware is it?
Oct 25 05:11:04 <DarkriftX> too much tweaking languish?
Oct 25 05:11:31 <languish> DarkriftX, zero teaking
Oct 25 05:11:42 <DarkriftX> aww, thats no fun
Oct 25 05:11:48 <TreyB> languish: buggy?
Oct 25 05:11:58 <languish> TreyB, undoubtly, lol
Oct 25 05:12:04 <languish> +ed
Oct 25 05:12:06 <DarkriftX> id be tweaking the *#&% out of it :S
Oct 25 05:12:15 <DarkriftX> id prob brick a few before i finally stopped :S
Oct 25 05:12:16 <languish> :)
Oct 25 05:12:35 <landslide> can't u just jtag it?
Oct 25 05:12:58 <DarkriftX> never read if g1 has jtag connections or not
Oct 25 05:13:05 <BruteSource> its omap 850
Oct 25 05:13:07 <TreyB> The G1?  They didn't leave the jtag port active, did they?
Oct 25 05:13:25 <landslide> do they fuse it or something?
Oct 25 05:13:44 <landslide> they'd have to have it for manufacturing.
Oct 25 05:13:47 <BruteSource> armv6
Oct 25 05:14:00 <TreyB> Only until they QA test it
Oct 25 05:14:21 <TreyB> Or QC, probably, but hey.
Oct 25 05:14:40 * waldo_ is back (gone 00:25:58)
Oct 25 05:14:40 <DarkriftX> i went into the tmob store again
Oct 25 05:14:46 <BruteSource> any ideas i can pastebin the piped strace if anyone will look...
Oct 25 05:14:48 <DarkriftX> ppl everywhere were grabbing the last couple g1's
Oct 25 05:15:04 <certron> Any recs for an android book or really long tutorials?
Oct 25 05:15:24 <DarkriftX> not a single person in there looked like they even knew what they were buying... trend buyers :(
Oct 25 05:15:57 <landslide> hehe.
Oct 25 05:15:58 <BruteSource> lol
Oct 25 05:16:05 <landslide> that's a GOOD sign.
Oct 25 05:16:06 <certron> DarkriftX: maybe they will be pleasantly surprised... although I have to say, I've only seen 2 ads on TV for it.
Oct 25 05:16:22 <DarkriftX> they dont have to advertise it, everyone knows lol
Oct 25 05:16:25 <BruteSource> i cant even buy one unless i do from ebay for like 700
Oct 25 05:16:26 <TreyB> Some folks just want a non AT&T iPhone-alike.
Oct 25 05:16:36 <DarkriftX> the tmobile store had a huge cardboard sign about them
Oct 25 05:16:39 <BruteSource> which this is not
Oct 25 05:16:42 <DarkriftX> i almost stole it
Oct 25 05:16:47 <DarkriftX> it was a 4ft tall g1 lol
Oct 25 05:17:15 <TreyB> They have 4ft tall iPhones on the Apple campus in Cupertino.
Oct 25 05:17:16 <BruteSource> no it has no multi touch o h capacity built in hdd
Oct 25 05:17:21 <BruteSource> its not an iphone
Oct 25 05:17:25 <BruteSource> and thats good
Oct 25 05:17:37 <TreyB> At least they have 4ft tall monitors dressed up like iPhones.
Oct 25 05:17:48 <landslide> hey it shouldn't have a problem with 800x480 right?
Oct 25 05:17:55 <BruteSource> ya all apple stores have those
Oct 25 05:18:06 <muthu> hey, so the core android project is frameworks/base?
Oct 25 05:18:55 <TreyB> BruteSource: I don't recall seeing them at my local Apple store, but I did see them in Cupertino.
Oct 25 05:19:05 <BruteSource> anyone here know about the actual kernel and userspace or is this like a g1 fanboi room?
Oct 25 05:19:18 <TreyB> Perhap my local Apple store just sucks ;-)
Oct 25 05:19:19 <BruteSource> they have them at the apples stores i have seen
Oct 25 05:19:20 <geist> oh snap
Oct 25 05:19:32 <landslide> the more i look at the platform.. the more I realise that windows ce/windows mobile won't be around for much longer.
Oct 25 05:19:43 <TreyB> Howdy geist.
Oct 25 05:19:48 <landslide> i've been a windows ce guy for a long time, and boy is it a cluster fsck
Oct 25 05:19:50 <geist> it's teh TreyB
Oct 25 05:19:56 <DarkriftX> me too landslide
Oct 25 05:19:58 <TreyB> landslide: I read an article today that said the same thing.
Oct 25 05:20:10 <landslide> ce is designed for calculators.
Oct 25 05:20:11 <TreyB> Cringely at PBS, I think.
Oct 25 05:20:14 <DarkriftX> i was a winmo fanboy till i first installed linux on one of my handhelds
Oct 25 05:20:20 <DarkriftX> and i wanted something more since then
Oct 25 05:20:33 <landslide> i'm looking at porting this to my companies own hardware.
Oct 25 05:20:33 <DarkriftX> i got debian on a mobilepro 900c :)
Oct 25 05:20:37 <landslide> as a side project.
Oct 25 05:20:50 <invain> wow... It's surprise..
Oct 25 05:20:56 <TreyB> landslide: can you tell us who you work for and about the hardware?
Oct 25 05:21:14 <BruteSource> msm7201a
Oct 25 05:21:23 <BruteSource> thats all ya need to know lol
Oct 25 05:21:39 <landslide> i work for touchstar, our uk office makes the hardware... The device i'm looking at porting is the raven.
Oct 25 05:21:42 <landslide> www.touchpc.com
Oct 25 05:21:58 <landslide> i'm out of their sydney office and deal mostly with software for verticals.
Oct 25 05:22:48 <certron> that looks really cool, landslide
Oct 25 05:23:12 <unix_infidel> would a POST be just the dead simplest / easiest way to move data from the phone to a webserver without havint to run a webservice?
Oct 25 05:23:23 <BruteSource> so anyone know whats going wrong or a better way to debug it?
Oct 25 05:23:37 <michaelnovakjr_> unix_infidel: sure, you could do a REST type interface
Oct 25 05:23:40 <TreyB> Android for that looks like overkill, but it might simplify your life to rely on an open stack.
Oct 25 05:24:08 <landslide> overkill, in what way?
Oct 25 05:24:35 <michaelnovakjr_> unix_infidel: you should check out axis, its a pretty cool service that can accept query string calls to methods and return a soap envelope
Oct 25 05:25:03 <TreyB> Depends on how fancy (and how many) end-user apps you need per device.
Oct 25 05:25:06 <invain> umm....
Oct 25 05:25:18 <BruteSource> ?
Oct 25 05:25:22 <romainguy> michaelnovakjr: axis is a big huge for a phone app
Oct 25 05:25:25 <landslide> ah i see what you mean, we have pretty specific applications.
Oct 25 05:25:31 <unix_infidel> michaelnovakjr_: I'd like to avoid a SOAP stack and the associated overhead altogether.
Oct 25 05:25:31 <michaelnovakjr_> romainguy: not on the phone :)
Oct 25 05:25:40 <TreyB> landslide: yeah, really vertical.
Oct 25 05:25:43 <romainguy> oh sorry then :)
Oct 25 05:25:46 <michaelnovakjr_> :)
Oct 25 05:25:53 <michaelnovakjr_> its a good server side system
Oct 25 05:26:15 <michaelnovakjr_> unix_infidel: you could just call a straight up page then
Oct 25 05:26:47 <unix_infidel> michaelnovakjr_: yea, there are inherent detriments i'm trying to figure out if they matter or not :-P
Oct 25 05:26:48 <michaelnovakjr_> unix_infidel: really depends on your goals and what data you'll be working with
Oct 25 05:28:36 <muthu> never rely on notifications.. that's the lesson i've learned so far
Oct 25 05:28:50 <muthu> user's are simply stumped
Oct 25 05:29:07 <muthu> they don't even know they got a notification waiting.. and then click on it to see something
Oct 25 05:29:55 <umdk1d3> muthu: well
Oct 25 05:30:02 <unix_infidel> michaelnovakjr_: yea, I'm thinking a simple post would work to start off with but I might move to XML RPC if things get out of control.
Oct 25 05:30:07 <umdk1d3> youve been using them for your search results, right?
Oct 25 05:30:14 <muthu> umdk1d3: yes
Oct 25 05:30:32 <umdk1d3> thats just... wrong  :/  sry dont mean to offend
Oct 25 05:30:44 <umdk1d3> notifications are meant for background events
Oct 25 05:30:57 <muthu> yep, the search in that context is background
Oct 25 05:30:58 <umdk1d3> and users arent running those searches in the background
Oct 25 05:31:32 <umdk1d3> muthu: heres a hint, look at the other apps on the phone and how they handle search results
Oct 25 05:31:44 <umdk1d3> emulate the user experience provided by the other apps as much as possible
Oct 25 05:31:49 <umdk1d3> im doing the same thing
Oct 25 05:31:54 <muthu> umdk1d3: i know what you are saying
Oct 25 05:32:01 <muthu> but it depends on context
Oct 25 05:32:04 <umdk1d3> because that way users wont be confused when they visit your app
Oct 25 05:32:16 <muthu> the other apps are not doing bulk searching
Oct 25 05:32:41 <muthu> when you search a single topic, mobeegal does it in foreground just like google search
Oct 25 05:32:53 <muthu> i shoulda made the single topic as the default
Oct 25 05:33:02 <umdk1d3> also, i found it odd that you were overriding the default http browser intents
Oct 25 05:33:12 <muthu> its not odd
Oct 25 05:33:30 <muthu> android intents are meant to be overridden
Oct 25 05:33:51 <certron> "Android intents... They do what you mean."
Oct 25 05:34:59 <invain> 쟂
Oct 25 05:35:01 <muthu> the beauty of android is the choice that you can present for a given intent
Oct 25 05:35:01 <invain> wow
Oct 25 05:35:07 <invain> 한글을
Oct 25 05:35:09 <invain> 나는 입력가능하다.
Oct 25 05:35:13 <muthu> woah!!
Oct 25 05:35:17 <invain> This is korea language..
Oct 25 05:35:24 <muthu> invain: ha, good to know
Oct 25 05:35:28 <muthu> what does it mean?
Oct 25 05:35:29 <umdk1d3> muthu: just because they are designed to be overridden doesnt mean that you /must/ override them
Oct 25 05:35:37 * romainguy seconds umdk1d3 
Oct 25 05:35:40 <invain> yes
Oct 25 05:36:07 <invain> this means that google not opne  compiler source like toolchain.
Oct 25 05:36:34 <romainguy> well it certainly is open source
Oct 25 05:36:37 <romainguy> we did not modify it
Oct 25 05:36:52 <invain> Can we download  open source about toolchain to build android opensource in private?
Oct 25 05:37:08 <romainguy> sure but why do you want to download the compiler's source code?
Oct 25 05:37:14 <umdk1d3> muthu: do one thing, and do it well  :)
Oct 25 05:37:16 <romainguy> you don't need it to compile Android itself
Oct 25 05:37:25 <invain> no..
Oct 25 05:37:25 <muthu> umdk1d3: haha.. thanks
Oct 25 05:37:28 <invain> In my case.
Oct 25 05:37:40 <muthu> umdk1d3: nice feedback, appreciated
Oct 25 05:37:54 <invain>  I want to porting android platform to the  DTV  Like OPenframe.
Oct 25 05:38:13 <invain> I think that
Oct 25 05:38:33 <invain> you will adjust  another embedded products using android full source.
Oct 25 05:38:40 <invain> so i need
Oct 25 05:38:49 <invain> android compiler source.
Oct 25 05:39:11 <romainguy> invain: it's just gcc
Oct 25 05:39:25 <muthu> umdk1d3: sent any patches to source?
Oct 25 05:39:26 <invain> but
Oct 25 05:40:01 <invain> google  used  bsd c library without glibce  to build gcc tolchain.
Oct 25 05:40:13 <invain> tolchain --> toolchain.
Oct 25 05:40:28 <umdk1d3> patches to android source?  lol no, ive just been browsing through online git right now--lots to soak in
Oct 25 05:40:41 <muthu> yeah, git is a learning curve
Oct 25 05:40:41 <romainguy> umdk1d3: hey now you can fix your Listview bug
Oct 25 05:41:04 <muthu> now we can just send patches, instead of bug reports :)
Oct 25 05:41:19 <Disconnect> ok so all my tables have id columns called _id. how come I'm getting a 'no such column _id' error?
Oct 25 05:41:48 <romainguy> Disconnect: it's not projected by your SQL query?
Oct 25 05:42:16 <muthu> umdk1d3: any good git docs you found?
Oct 25 05:42:23 <muthu> am trying to get some decent overview on git
Oct 25 05:42:26 <romainguy> muthu: http://book.git-scm.com/
Oct 25 05:42:30 <invain>  i  can download http://android.git.kernel.org/pub/android-toolchain-20081019.tar.bz2  binary gcc toolchain by google just
Oct 25 05:42:31 <muthu> romainguy: thx
Oct 25 05:42:51 <invain> anyone have  gcc-toolchain source by google.?
Oct 25 05:43:14 <BruteSource> its in the bootkit
Oct 25 05:44:10 <invain> in general,
Oct 25 05:44:36 <invain> If google is using gcc toolchain with glibce, I don't need  gcc toolchain source of android.
Oct 25 05:44:37 <invain> but.
Oct 25 05:44:53 <invain> goole is using gcctoolchain with bsd libc without glibc or uclibc.
Oct 25 05:45:13 <invain> in android software stack,
Oct 25 05:45:28 <invain> good is calling bionic library.
Oct 25 05:45:35 <BruteSource> gogle doesnt use gcc
Oct 25 05:45:41 <BruteSource> google
Oct 25 05:45:48 <invain> help me...
Oct 25 05:46:10 <invain> no.. goolgle is using gcc for android.
Oct 25 05:46:20 <invain> http://android.git.kernel.org/pub/android-toolchain-20081019.tar.bz2
Oct 25 05:46:39 <invain> you can download android toolchain (Exectuable binary files).
Oct 25 05:46:52 <BruteSource> google uses a custom compiler
Oct 25 05:46:56 <invain> but, I want to download android toolchain source..
Oct 25 05:47:10 <invain> yes... i thinks so.
Oct 25 05:47:19 <invain> so i need  android toolchain source..
Oct 25 05:47:45 <invain> perhaps... dou you have android toolchain source using bionic(=bsc c lib)
Oct 25 05:47:46 <invain> ?
Oct 25 05:48:23 <invain> knock.... knock..
Oct 25 05:50:39 <romainguy> BruteSource: it's not a custom compiler, it's g++ for ARM archiectures
Oct 25 05:51:21 <Disconnect> so.. anyone know whats wrong with my sql? _id is in my table but its still throwing no-such-column exceptions at runtime
Oct 25 05:51:25 <waldo_> google doesn't use glibc according to the video I watched a while ago
Oct 25 05:51:34 <Disconnect> is there something weird about the _ in sqlite?
Oct 25 05:51:37 <romainguy> Disconnect: did you check that your project contains the _id column?
Oct 25 05:51:41 <Disconnect> yep
Oct 25 05:51:49 <umdk1d3> *project==query
Oct 25 05:52:01 <Disconnect> sqlite> .schema boxes / CREATE TABLE boxes (_id integer primary key autoincrement,
Oct 25 05:52:06 <romainguy> umdk1d3: I meant the projection in the query
Oct 25 05:52:21 <invain> waldo.. i think so.. google is using  bionic library(=modified netbsd c library).
Oct 25 05:52:24 <umdk1d3> Disconnect: thats the table def, not the query
Oct 25 05:52:53 <invain> and current android toolchain is for C , C++
Oct 25 05:53:01 <invain> refer to below description.
Oct 25 05:53:10 <romainguy> invain: looking at the toolchain, you need the source of gcc 4.2.1
Oct 25 05:53:28 <invain> yes..
Oct 25 05:53:31 <invain> exactly..
Oct 25 05:53:42 <romainguy> so what's the problem with getting the source of gcc 4.2.1??
Oct 25 05:53:43 <invain> i need modified gcc 4.2.1 by google for android.
Oct 25 05:53:46 <Disconnect> query runs in sqlite - select b.box_column .. c.weight from boxes b, content c where c._id = b.content_id
Oct 25 05:53:53 <romainguy> invain: but we did not modify it
Oct 25 05:53:58 <romainguy> at least not that I know of
Oct 25 05:54:00 <invain> [invain@fedora9 bin]$ ./arm-eabi-gcc -v
Oct 25 05:54:00 <invain> Using built-in specs.
Oct 25 05:54:00 <invain> Target: arm-eabi
Oct 25 05:54:00 <invain> Configured with: ../../toolchain/android-toolchain/gcc-4.2.1/configure --prefix=/android/mathias/armdev/toolchain-eabi-4.2.1 --program-transform-name=s,^,arm-eabi-, --prefix=/android/mathias/armdev/toolchain-eabi-4.2.1 --target=arm-eabi --host=x86_64-unknown-linux-gnu --build=x86_64-unknown-linux-gnu --enable-languages=c,c++ --disable-libstdc__-v3 --disable-libssp --enable-threads --disable-nls --disable-libmudflap --with-float=soft --with-fp
Oct 25 05:54:01 <invain> u=vfp --with-arch=armv5te --enable-target-optspace --with-abi=aapcs : (reconfigured) ../../toolchain/android-toolchain/gcc-4.2.1/configure --prefix=/android/mathias/armdev/toolchain-eabi-4.2.1 --program-transform-name=s,^,arm-eabi-, --prefix=/android/mathias/armdev/toolchain-eabi-4.2.1 --target=arm-eabi --host=x86_64-unknown-linux-gnu --build=x86_64-unknown-linux-gnu --enable-languages=c,c++ --disable-libstdc__-v3 --disable-libssp --enable-th
Oct 25 05:54:08 <invain> reads --disable-nls --disable-libmudflap --with-float=soft --with-fpu=vfp --with-arch=armv5te --enable-target-optspace --with-abi=aapcs
Oct 25 05:54:11 <invain> Thread model: single
Oct 25 05:54:13 <invain> gcc version 4.2.1
Oct 25 05:54:31 <invain> oh... romainguy... you are google staff? it it correct?
Oct 25 05:54:34 <romainguy> yes
Oct 25 05:54:56 <umdk1d3> Disconnect: that query, shouldnt it be "b._id"?
Oct 25 05:55:05 <umdk1d3> according to your table def earlier
Oct 25 05:55:07 <invain> When i see above gcc version.
Oct 25 05:55:17 <romainguy> Disconnect: your query doesn't contain the _id column :)
Oct 25 05:55:18 <Disconnect> box contains a content_id that lines up to content._id
Oct 25 05:55:20 <wub_> anyone using connectbot?
Oct 25 05:55:41 <umdk1d3> wub_: yes, sup?
Oct 25 05:55:46 <invain> ok..  romainguy... Can you give me  arm-eabi-gcc toolchain build script ?
Oct 25 05:55:49 <invain> please..
Oct 25 05:55:55 <umdk1d3> wub_: were idling in #connectbot actually
Oct 25 05:55:59 <PoohbaLT> ugh.  i thought u would be able to use the internet and phone calls at the same time.
Oct 25 05:56:00 <wub_> ah cool
Oct 25 05:56:11 <Disconnect> romainguy: yah thats somewhat an issue cuz i'm building a cursor with the above, and then feeding a listview. query runs fine. (lemme log.d it again and triplecheck but..)
Oct 25 05:56:12 <romainguy> PoohbaLT: you can on 3G
Oct 25 05:56:49 <PoohbaLT> thats what i thought
Oct 25 05:56:59 <PoohbaLT> but i didn't get any emails.  i was just on the phone for 1hr
Oct 25 05:57:05 <PoohbaLT> then when i get off they came thru
Oct 25 05:57:11 <Disconnect> although i think i just found a problem. i'm pulling out "datetime" "size" etc.. but i'm handing up "b.size" and "c.datetime" and .. ugh. maybe thats it. (or at least, thats probably also broken)
Oct 25 05:57:19 <invain> um... romaingu i have one more question..
Oct 25 05:57:19 <romainguy> PoohbaLT: with Email or Gmail?
Oct 25 05:57:29 <wub_> umdk1d3: is there any key combo that maps to alt?  I'm trying to switch between screen sessions ;)
Oct 25 05:57:51 <umdk1d3> not yet, but its coming  ;)
Oct 25 05:57:52 <wub_> umdk1d3: can't find much documentation on the google dev page
Oct 25 05:57:56 <wub_> cool cool
Oct 25 05:57:59 <invain> mathias is   staff  for android toolchain with bionic library. is it correct?
Oct 25 05:57:59 <wub_> I like the app so far
Oct 25 05:58:01 <umdk1d3> yea its still under heavy dev before monday
Oct 25 05:58:10 <umdk1d3> wub_: did you get latest svn from a few hours ago?
Oct 25 05:58:17 <invain> knock romainguy...
Oct 25 05:58:21 <wub_> umdk1d3: I tried but they wouldn't install on my G1.
Oct 25 05:58:29 <invain> Can you answer me about my above question?
Oct 25 05:58:35 <umdk1d3> wub_: yea we need to write up a better guide
Oct 25 05:58:36 <BruteSource> whats a futexe?
Oct 25 05:58:38 <BruteSource> whats a futexe?
Oct 25 05:58:38 <BruteSource> whats a futexe?
Oct 25 05:58:40 <umdk1d3> the key situation is a mess
Oct 25 05:58:47 <invain> i know futex
Oct 25 05:58:56 <wub_> umdk1d3: I don't have the SDK installed on this computer so I can't dump anything for you to debug.
Oct 25 05:58:57 <invain> futes is Fast userspace Mutex..
Oct 25 05:59:31 <invain> 2.6 linux kernel consist  of futex features for faster mutex locking mechnism.
Oct 25 05:59:47 <umdk1d3> wub_: if you cant get it installed, then its most likely an APK signing issue
Oct 25 06:00:05 <umdk1d3> try uninstalling any version you currently have before installing a new one
Oct 25 06:00:10 <wub_> umdk1d3: How freaking cool would it be to map the screen swiping to ctrl-a-n and ctrl-a-p to switch between screens ;)  I know currently it switches between connections
Oct 25 06:00:16 <wub_> umdk1d3: Ok, let me try that.
Oct 25 06:00:22 <umdk1d3> wub_: oh awesome!  =D  didnt think of htat
Oct 25 06:00:31 <umdk1d3> might be a menu option or something
Oct 25 06:00:41 <invain> I you are interested in  FUTEX features, Read white paper at http://people.redhat.com/drepper/futex.pdf by Ulrich drepper.
Oct 25 06:00:43 <umdk1d3> wouldnt get the animation
Oct 25 06:00:49 <invain> i --> If
Oct 25 06:00:53 <wub_> umdk1d3: I don't care! :)
Oct 25 06:01:55 <wub_> umdk1d3: is issue #15 resolved in any of the new svns?
Oct 25 06:02:25 <invain> ok.. nice meet romainguy..
Oct 25 06:02:30 <invain> have nice day..
Oct 25 06:02:49 <umdk1d3> wub_: rumor has it someone just finished writing a fix for #15
Oct 25 06:02:51 <BruteSource> will someone look at this strace output we get after init for the android userspace
Oct 25 06:02:54 <umdk1d3> might be checked in shortly  ^.^
Oct 25 06:02:55 <invain> i have to go vips store.. bye.. see you again... (here is PM 3:02hehe)
Oct 25 06:02:59 <BruteSource> http://pastebin.com/d62649620
Oct 25 06:03:12 <wub_> umdk1d3: Cool :)
Oct 25 06:03:17 <muthu> invain: is it AM?
Oct 25 06:03:53 <muthu> oh no.. korea should be afternoon
Oct 25 06:03:58 <Disconnect> ok so i was looking at the wrong query :) but i still can run it in the shell with no errors (no rows, but no errors)
Oct 25 06:04:46 <BruteSource> can someone look at that pastebin please?
Oct 25 06:04:53 <invain> muthu.. yes..
Oct 25 06:05:03 <invain> and  brutesource i read  above site...
Oct 25 06:05:15 <invain> confirm your file system for normal mmap2 syscall.
Oct 25 06:05:44 <BruteSource> we are not using yyafs, could that be the problem?
Oct 25 06:05:56 <wub_> umdk1d3: you were right about the signing issue -- just installed r75
Oct 25 06:06:06 <invain> ye.. at leat,  in my experience...   bye.. see you again...
Oct 25 06:09:14 <Disconnect> damnit. simplecursoradapter expects _id thats why it was hating me
Oct 25 06:10:35 <BruteSource> disconnect could you look at this strace output please?
Oct 25 06:10:39 <BruteSource> http://pastebin.com/d62649620
Oct 25 06:11:03 <BruteSource> happens right after init we are getting a flashing android man thats it
Oct 25 06:11:50 <wubG1> sweet - this is the smallest thing i've irc'd on i think...
Oct 25 06:12:26 <BruteSource> im irc'n on a smaller device than a g1 lol
Oct 25 06:12:43 <wubG1> what are you using?
Oct 25 06:13:09 <BruteSource> an exclibur
Oct 25 06:13:23 <BruteSource> what client are you using on the dream?
Oct 25 06:13:29 <BruteSource> excalibur
Oct 25 06:14:15 <ihateuid2000> woe is me
Oct 25 06:14:22 <PoohbaLT> romainguy: gmail
Oct 25 06:14:58 <PoohbaLT> i have my gmail set up to get mail from other mail accounts and i have it to reply as who the mail was sent to but that doesn't follow on the android
Oct 25 06:15:04 <wub_> BruteSource: I was ssh'ing into a shell account and running an irc client from there...
Oct 25 06:15:13 <BruteSource> aw
Oct 25 06:15:32 <BruteSource> should be able to just run irssi from a terminal
Oct 25 06:15:41 <BruteSource> if you can get it to run
Oct 25 06:16:08 <swetland> invain - you still looking for gcc source?
Oct 25 06:16:16 <wub_> BruteSource: directly on the device?  ...I'm not so sure.
Oct 25 06:16:50 <BruteSource> its linux its possible
Oct 25 06:16:52 <wub_> Has someone ported bash or something?
Oct 25 06:17:00 <BruteSource> shouldnt he hard
Oct 25 06:17:01 <swetland> wub: you could. I would prefer to have a native client that used a proxy backend myself
Oct 25 06:17:10 <swetland> wub: ash is included as /system/bin/sh
Oct 25 06:17:29 <wub_> So, how do I get at it... heh.
Oct 25 06:17:35 <ihateuid2000> i tried bash-static from lenny for arm and it segfaulted
Oct 25 06:17:44 <ihateuid2000> busyboc works though
Oct 25 06:17:44 <BruteSource> alot of people dont realize android is linux lol
Oct 25 06:17:49 <ihateuid2000> erm, busybox
Oct 25 06:17:59 <swetland> well android *isn't* linux
Oct 25 06:18:17 <swetland> but the android stack does run on top of a linux kernel, and includes a number of libraries common to linux distributions
Oct 25 06:18:29 <wub_> I'm a software developer but I have not delved into the SDK at all.  I knew Google was working on Android but I didn't really follow things closely.  When I heard that the G1 was coming, I eagerly preordered to dump my broken Blackberry.
Oct 25 06:19:27 <BruteSource> yes it does run on top of a linux kernel lmao
Oct 25 06:19:39 <BruteSource> what do you think they run on?
Oct 25 06:20:26 <wub_> I'm pleased for the most part.  The possibilities for this platform are so exciting.  I'll admit, it's got my little geek heart longing to poke at some code for it.
Oct 25 06:20:33 <BruteSource> If they didnt we wouldnt be able to run patched kernels
Oct 25 06:21:36 <wub_> BruteSource: From what I've read, swetland is correct.  Yes, it's running on a Linux kernel but things are locked down.  It's pretty abstracted for developers.
Oct 25 06:21:56 <swetland> yes, I'm correct.  I'm the systems/kernel lead for the project ^^
Oct 25 06:22:03 <wub_> I don't think you can hack your kernel ;)
Oct 25 06:22:06 <wub_> swetland: ha.
Oct 25 06:22:29 <BruteSource> no its completely open, thats why its already running on other devices
Oct 25 06:22:42 <BruteSource> oh now he works for google lmao
Oct 25 06:22:58 <wub_> *cough /whois swetland *cough*
Oct 25 06:23:01 <BruteSource> irc is great
Oct 25 06:23:03 <wub_> :P
Oct 25 06:23:40 <BruteSource> brian swetland?
Oct 25 06:23:58 <wub_> http://www.linkedin.com/in/swetland
Oct 25 06:24:00 <swetland> yes?
Oct 25 06:24:44 <BruteSource> so i can make my whois say bill gates, wanna see?
Oct 25 06:24:49 <BruteSource> whats your point?
Oct 25 06:25:22 <umdk1d3> sigh
Oct 25 06:25:40 * waldo_ is away: auto-away
Oct 25 06:27:09 <wub_> umdk1d3: I like the fix for the password/keyboard issues altho the inconsistency is confusing.
Oct 25 06:27:35 <umdk1d3> wub_: true, but we kindof needed the "confidence" of the password edittext
Oct 25 06:27:40 * waldo_ is back (gone 00:02:00)
Oct 25 06:27:45 * wub_ nods.
Oct 25 06:28:18 <umdk1d3> oh, and we werent handling special chars correctly from what peopel reported
Oct 25 06:28:56 * umdk1d3 zzz
Oct 25 06:28:59 <wub_> As in?  I didn't try very much since I couldn't resume my screen session.
Oct 25 06:29:04 <wub_> Or go to bed. ;)
Oct 25 06:29:08 <umdk1d3> lol
Oct 25 06:29:26 <umdk1d3> umm someone was saying the special chars (alt+something) werent working all the way
Oct 25 06:30:08 <BruteSource> what needs to be pressed to return to home screen, wened to map it
Oct 25 06:57:08 <mib_33yhjb> are there any plans now that the source tree has been released to remove the license from the sdk binary?
Oct 25 07:18:33 <coonsta> exit
Oct 25 07:18:36 <coonsta> :)
Oct 25 07:18:39 <coonsta> It is too late.
Oct 25 07:18:51 <coonsta> :o
Oct 25 07:26:57 <muthu> git community book is great
Oct 25 08:03:19 <jimmygoon> How much physical size would it actually add to have 2 microsd slots instead of just one?
Oct 25 08:03:43 <jimmygoon> And congrats on the OSS release (obviously a lot late, there were mixed feelings, expectations last time I was here :D)
Oct 25 08:04:36 <f00f-> jimmy, i'd say it'd add quite a bit
Oct 25 08:05:41 <jimmygoon> f00f-: Hm, I just think a few extra slots and then having them work in raid or something (raid would make it hard to "hotswap" theem) would be awesome.
Oct 25 08:06:07 <jimmygoon> but obviously, there would have to be a spring mechanism, terminal contacts, circuit board access etc
Oct 25 08:06:33 <f00f-> i dont see  the purpose
Oct 25 08:06:44 <f00f-> just get  a larger card
Oct 25 08:07:08 <jimmygoon> f00f-: they don't make 32gb cards yet :)
Oct 25 08:07:22 <f00f-> ok let's wait until they do :)
Oct 25 08:07:25 <f00f-> it's around the corner
Oct 25 08:07:42 <f00f-> there's a bunch of hardware that needs changing
Oct 25 08:07:53 <f00f-> plus, the board is routed optimally already
Oct 25 08:07:58 <jimmygoon> haha, fair enough. I just hope by time a verizon/cdma handset is on the horizon the 16gb become more affordable
Oct 25 08:08:05 <f00f-> you might need to redo layout if you want to add more stuff
Oct 25 08:08:12 <f00f-> due to noise and what-not
Oct 25 08:08:31 <f00f-> might be a nice hobby project if you work at htc and have axx to the board layout files, etc.
Oct 25 08:08:32 <jimmygoon> yeah it obviously wouldn't work to jsut "throw an extra one in there"
Oct 25 08:08:38 <muthu> heard 64gb card is coming soon
Oct 25 08:08:51 <jimmygoon> muthu: microsd?
Oct 25 08:08:53 <jimmygoon> :O
Oct 25 08:08:55 <f00f-> well yeah they have 32/64 gb cards probably
Oct 25 08:08:58 <f00f-> in research
Oct 25 08:09:00 <f00f-> not i nmass market
Oct 25 08:09:05 <muthu> right
Oct 25 08:09:08 <muthu> hehe
Oct 25 08:09:54 <jimmygoon> fun fun
Oct 25 08:10:01 <muthu> :)
Oct 25 08:10:19 <jimmygoon> any news/rumors of cdma/verizon android handsets?
Oct 25 08:11:02 <spikebike> n800 has two slots
Oct 25 08:11:26 <spikebike> jimmy search youtube for android on verizon
Oct 25 08:12:35 <jimmygoon> spikebike: I just saw someone with it running on an old htc phone :/ I hope Verizon doesn't pull a Verizon on android :(
Oct 25 08:12:38 * f00f- experiments with runOnUiThread()...
Oct 25 08:12:58 <f00f-> ok muthu, major improvements in error handling
Oct 25 08:13:14 <f00f-> if a web request fails or times out, i throw up a dialog
Oct 25 08:13:19 <f00f-> allowing the user to "try again" or cancel
Oct 25 08:13:37 <f00f-> i don't ever expect to have such a dialog pop  up
Oct 25 08:13:48 <muthu> f00f-: nice
Oct 25 08:13:49 <f00f-> but in case a network request times out or server is overloaded
Oct 25 08:14:16 <muthu> yeah, the user's just want it to work
Oct 25 08:14:24 <muthu> they dont care about notifications and all that shit
Oct 25 08:14:33 <spikebike> I was kinda shocked how many videos there are of android on a butload of different phones
Oct 25 08:15:49 <muthu> spikebike:  yeah, looks like every phone can run android
Oct 25 08:16:03 <DarkriftX> xda-developers had a thread linking to my site about porting android to wm phones, i found it from my analytics and read it a little
Oct 25 08:16:08 <DarkriftX> was interesting to say the least
Oct 25 08:16:09 <jimmygoon> How were they managing this before the source was available ..... :/
Oct 25 08:16:25 <DarkriftX> taking the image and runnign it with haret
Oct 25 08:16:33 <jimmygoon> and how soon before it is stable on touch hd :) (still not in the US though :()
Oct 25 08:16:58 <spikebike> ya, the touch HD looks pretty nice
Oct 25 08:17:02 <DarkriftX> check xda-developers forums, they would be the place to find out
Oct 25 08:17:21 <spikebike> quite a few phones are coming with very g1 like hardware (except for the compass)
Oct 25 08:17:31 <spikebike> treo pro
Oct 25 08:17:37 <spikebike> at least a few of the htcs
Oct 25 08:18:24 <jimmygoon> :) Except, the Touch HD is surely GSM anyway :|
Oct 25 08:20:04 <spikebike> I think even the iphone is pretty close (no keyboard of course)
Oct 25 08:21:09 <jimmygoon> oooh. there is diamond cdma variety
Oct 25 08:26:45 <parmaster> htc blackstone
Oct 25 08:27:03 <parmaster> (aka htc touch HD)
Oct 25 08:29:58 <jimmygoon> well it looks like there will be cdma touch pro and diamond, maybe one of those would work out? Hopefully HTC will stay on their game and release something like the touch hd here with android :) that would make me happy
Oct 25 08:32:55 <parmaster> maybe you could just wait for 'opentrout' lol
Oct 25 08:35:13 <BruteSource> anyone know why our build keeps setting its date back and freakig out about it?
Oct 25 08:35:58 <parmaster> hi BruteSource
Oct 25 08:36:16 <parmaster> i have no idea about the htc hardware clock
Oct 25 08:36:40 <parmaster> but clocks working ok in winmo right?
Oct 25 08:37:31 <BruteSource> ya it a consistant error on 2 seperate devices with same hw
Oct 25 08:39:18 <BruteSource> we finally got the userspace to init but now we have this crazy problem with the hw clock
Oct 25 08:46:04 <parmaster> i couldn't find anything in the xda-developer forums about the hardware clock for any of the phones at all
Oct 25 08:50:53 <BruteSource> ya im sure penguinz will figure it out dude is like a ninja
Oct 25 09:22:40 <BruteSource> whats with the bots?
Oct 25 09:27:21 <malcom_> hello guys, is normal that Android Emulator is so slow? In fact if I want to debug an app of mine I need to start it each time (eclipse don't use an opened istance of it) and it's a pain
Oct 25 09:27:42 <malcom_> What wrong? It's a mistake of mine or the right way?
Oct 25 09:32:23 <NarOwmind> anyone still awake?
Oct 25 09:32:31 <gdsx> NarOwmind: moo :o)
Oct 25 09:32:42 <gdsx> malcom_: you're not supposed to start it each time
Oct 25 09:33:04 <gdsx> malcom_: you're supposed to run it once, and then the Eclipse plugin is supposed to interact with it
Oct 25 09:33:12 <NarOwmind> I was looking at the ContentProvider interfaces
Oct 25 09:33:34 <NarOwmind> does any one know the plan around those..
Oct 25 09:33:54 <NarOwmind> I would like to sync some of my apps data to the google account
Oct 25 09:34:14 <NarOwmind> since gmail offers so much storage
Oct 25 09:34:31 <NarOwmind>  suspect if we dont get a nice interface.. one can be hacked ontop of mail
Oct 25 09:34:36 <gdsx> NarOwmind: dunno, sorry
Oct 25 09:34:55 <BruteSource> ask the founder of google he is here
Oct 25 09:35:00 <NarOwmind> huh
Oct 25 09:35:13 <BruteSource> lmao just making fun sorry
Oct 25 09:35:32 <NarOwmind> founders dont much anyways
Oct 25 09:35:41 <NarOwmind> its a better joke to say project manager
Oct 25 09:36:47 * waldo_ is away: zzz
Oct 25 09:37:14 <BruteSource> well his title is ever changing
Oct 25 09:38:35 <BruteSource> the thing is google devs sign a non disclosure agreement which says they can not reveal who they re in a public media while adressing current project information
Oct 25 09:38:50 <BruteSource> so we know he is full of it
Oct 25 09:39:52 <muthu> BruteSource: what do you mean? you can't say projectmanager of gmail for ex?
Oct 25 09:41:11 <swetland> we also are required to cover our faces in public. it is true.
Oct 25 09:41:51 <BruteSource> it just means you cant say hi im john smith from google and we are doing this in the next release of gmail.. it has to go through a press release
Oct 25 09:42:16 <Adamant> BruteSource: there are a lot of Google devs on here
Oct 25 09:42:23 <BruteSource> you can find this information on the net lol
Oct 25 09:42:53 <BruteSource> i am sure there are, but none that say there names and give out future development specifics
Oct 25 09:44:32 <BruteSource> anyways believe what ya want its  free net, im not trolling
Oct 25 09:45:35 <muthu> BruteSource: isn't that like a general company policy everywhere?
Oct 25 09:45:56 <muthu> not to talk about specifics..
Oct 25 09:46:06 <BruteSource> i dont know, but i do know its onefor google
Oct 25 09:46:24 <Adamant> BruteSource: given that Google is open sourcing Android and relying in significant part on outside contributions from this point on
Oct 25 09:46:44 <BruteSource> only with applications
Oct 25 09:46:45 <swetland> given that we've done the kernel development out in the open for the last year
Oct 25 09:46:51 <Adamant> I wouldn't be surprised if some form of limited waiver is given to talk about certain things
Oct 25 09:46:53 <BruteSource> not kernel development
Oct 25 09:47:23 <Adamant> swetland: good point
Oct 25 09:47:40 * waldo_ is away: auto-away
Oct 25 09:47:44 <BruteSource> and so its opensource... you ever seen linus come on irc and talk about whats up in the next kernel release?
Oct 25 09:47:58 <Adamant> BruteSource: he talks about it on LKML all the time
Oct 25 09:48:05 <Adamant> he's old, he doesn't use IRC
Oct 25 09:48:29 <BruteSource> no google has developed then release developed then released, see he has no clue what he is going on about
Oct 25 09:48:38 <NarOwmind> ya he whistles 2400buad for nttp
Oct 25 09:48:39 <Adamant> ok. whatever.
Oct 25 09:49:19 <BruteSource> lmao this kid has you all eating out of his hand its great
Oct 25 09:49:36 <BruteSource> why dont you share with us your @google email?
Oct 25 09:50:14 <BruteSource> and ill email you something and you can relay it here...
Oct 25 09:50:19 <swetland> http://git.android.com/?p=linux-msm.git;a=commit;h=639e64a900f3e5185c977f81d925888f20fbb86c
Oct 25 09:50:33 <BruteSource> ill cc it as well so we can know i sent it
Oct 25 09:50:46 <swetland> my email address has been public knowledge for well over a year, since we started contributing kernel work to the outside world for android
Oct 25 09:50:47 <BruteSource> i dont care about that whatd the email...
Oct 25 09:51:06 <BruteSource> just type the damn address
Oct 25 09:52:02 <muthu> BruteSource: why you want his email?
Oct 25 09:52:16 <BruteSource> so i can prove he is bs
Oct 25 09:52:44 <BruteSource> if he is who he says he is he will have a google email and can read from it
Oct 25 09:52:46 <swetland> it's in the commit linked to above, from 2007. please feel free to send me an email
Oct 25 09:53:10 <BruteSource> just type it id, i mean look how he beats around the bush
Oct 25 09:53:32 <BruteSource> type the address here, what do you have to worry about
Oct 25 09:54:15 <BruteSource> exactly there you guys go he has no access to any google email
Oct 25 09:54:48 <Adamant> dude his email at google is the same as his screenname here
Oct 25 09:54:48 <BruteSource> sorry to sound like a troll guys but he had to be weeded out
Oct 25 09:54:56 <muthu> he's using hotmail :)
Oct 25 09:55:01 <Adamant> if you check the post
Oct 25 09:55:21 <BruteSource> why cant he simply type it here?
Oct 25 09:55:21 <muthu> BruteSource: are you saying someone is impersonating swetland?
Oct 25 09:55:50 <BruteSource> im saying swetland is impersonating a real google dev
Oct 25 09:55:55 <muthu> haha
Oct 25 09:56:01 <muthu> you been drinking too much
Oct 25 09:56:12 <BruteSource> well then why wont he prove it?
Oct 25 09:56:23 <NarOwmind> why do we care
Oct 25 09:56:36 <BruteSource> i sent an email to the address read the 3 words...
Oct 25 09:56:53 <NarOwmind> little brown fox
Oct 25 09:56:54 <BruteSource> lmao, you guys are so gullable
Oct 25 09:57:02 <swetland> this is such a fun game
Oct 25 09:57:19 <BruteSource> lmao i bet it is fun for you
Oct 25 09:57:40 <BruteSource> you cant login to that email account and you know it
Oct 25 09:58:10 <BruteSource> or else you would just shut me up and read the 3 words
Oct 25 09:59:01 <BruteSource> lmao keep believing what you want guys, but i promise its just some android fanboi
Oct 25 09:59:18 <muthu> hmm
Oct 25 10:02:38 <swetland> based on the lack of new mail, I can only assume you want to ensure your "victory" or your mail is unreliable or eaten by spamfilters. ^^
Oct 25 10:03:07 <muthu> BruteSource: is having friday fun
Oct 25 10:03:28 <swetland> of course you certainly win by having me even bother to check, so there ya go
Oct 25 10:03:45 <DarkriftX> BruteSource, whois him
Oct 25 10:04:10 <BruteSource> lmao, now the email didnt come, good thing I cc'd and will post the copied email from the inbox i cc'd it to, i knew he would try that
Oct 25 10:04:16 <DarkriftX> also whois jasonchen and SanMehat
Oct 25 10:05:07 <Adamant> swetland: did you really believe your dastardly plot to impersonate a Google developer would work?
Oct 25 10:05:08 <BruteSource> what else woulhe say?
Oct 25 10:05:18 <BruteSource> he is persistant though
Oct 25 10:05:23 <DarkriftX> BruteSource, how did he get behind a google firewall with 2 of the ops?
Oct 25 10:05:44 <swetland> adamant: of course not. I could never stand up to such impressive scrutiny
Oct 25 10:05:48 <BruteSource> what firewall? you mean a lame psybnc?
Oct 25 10:06:04 <DarkriftX> yeah, with a computer inside a google domain?
Oct 25 10:06:11 <BruteSource> i an do the same thing... should i show you?
Oct 25 10:06:15 <DarkriftX> sure
Oct 25 10:06:28 <muthu> BruteSource: how?
Oct 25 10:06:33 <BruteSource> its a vmask lol basic stuff, not a real google domain
Oct 25 10:06:45 <DarkriftX> i want to see you join with the same vhost then
Oct 25 10:07:05 <DarkriftX> see? he avoids my challenge
Oct 25 10:07:09 <BruteSource> you can make it say microsoft, fairyland, fsf whatever floats your boat
Oct 25 10:07:19 <DarkriftX> he is impersonating an accuser of an impersonator!
Oct 25 10:07:28 <BruteSource> im on a mobile phone lmao
Oct 25 10:07:37 <DarkriftX> i c
Oct 25 10:07:38 <swetland> I thought the "I'll send you an email thing" was pretty cute.
Oct 25 10:07:43 <DarkriftX> see how he beats around the bush?
Oct 25 10:08:30 * rwhitby gets out the popcorn ...
Oct 25 10:08:32 <BruteSource> lol this is great he has you eating out of his palms, oh i give up. much respect for being such a good puppet master
Oct 25 10:08:46 <DarkriftX> you give up because you cannot do what you say you can do
Oct 25 10:08:56 <DarkriftX> i know bnc's and you arent going to get a google ip/domain on a bnc
Oct 25 10:09:17 <swetland> rwhitby: I'll try to get trolled more often in the future! Thank you, thank you, I'll be here all the week.
Oct 25 10:09:23 <BruteSource> no matter what i prove to you over and over, itall your perception when it comes down to it. so have fun
Oct 25 10:09:36 <rwhitby> swetland: it is quite amusing :-)
Oct 25 10:09:49 <DarkriftX> i also know that the devs to in fact hang out in here so why is it so hard to believe he is a google employee?
Oct 25 10:10:13 <BruteSource> al gogle devs spend theretime in an irc channel ya know
Oct 25 10:10:13 <DarkriftX> BruteSource, want me to send you an email at a godaddy.com address? thats a large company
Oct 25 10:10:58 <BruteSource> i said @google fool no one but staff get those adresses, go read a book
Oct 25 10:11:10 <DarkriftX> i know
Oct 25 10:11:24 <DarkriftX> i didnt say you didnt say google.com
Oct 25 10:11:39 <BruteSource> no you didnt obviously you idiot
Oct 25 10:11:49 <DarkriftX> lol, now he is mad
Oct 25 10:11:53 <swetland> rwhitby: gotta admit he's pretty good.
Oct 25 10:11:55 <DarkriftX> he cant prove his point and hes pissed
Oct 25 10:12:00 <BruteSource> oh yes im so mad
Oct 25 10:12:08 <BruteSource> im impressed actually
Oct 25 10:12:12 <swetland> well, he seems to have trouble sending email too. life is full of hardships.
Oct 25 10:12:17 <DarkriftX> lol!
Oct 25 10:12:32 <BruteSource> this script kiddie has fooled some pretty intelligent people
Oct 25 10:12:33 <rwhitby> swetland: perhaps it's a windows mobile phone he's using ...
Oct 25 10:12:41 <DarkriftX> that would explain it
Oct 25 10:12:48 <DarkriftX> wm and pop dont work well together
Oct 25 10:13:00 <DarkriftX> he should get an exchange server
Oct 25 10:13:04 <BruteSource> wow mommy teach you to ctcp version? what a big boy
Oct 25 10:13:23 <DarkriftX> lol, and he says he isnt mad
Oct 25 10:13:24 <BruteSource> i dont use pop god your brilliant
Oct 25 10:13:40 <rwhitby> DarkriftX: no mad, just a teenager probably.
Oct 25 10:13:52 <BruteSource> now he thinks gmail only supports pop, so clever
Oct 25 10:14:08 <swetland> you know, it is getting late.  can't exactly stay up all night waiting for email from trolss ^^
Oct 25 10:14:09 <DarkriftX> pop, imap take your choice
Oct 25 10:14:15 <DarkriftX> i also know wm sucks even worse with imap
Oct 25 10:14:28 <rwhitby> have a good night swetland
Oct 25 10:14:52 <DarkriftX> BruteSource, find a real computer and send your email so he can prove you a troll
Oct 25 10:15:02 <swetland> oh I'll be around for a bit. but I doubt I'll ever see an email from the brilliant man who unmasked me as a foul imposter ^^
Oct 25 10:15:02 <BruteSource> yes teeager but somehow i was alive logging into bbs's sharing fortran and basic over a 28k baud modem when you were sperm in daddies balls?
Oct 25 10:15:07 <DarkriftX> and we can laugh at how mad you get and blow up
Oct 25 10:15:12 <DarkriftX> 28k?
Oct 25 10:15:18 <DarkriftX> i had a 300 baud modem little boy
Oct 25 10:15:20 <rwhitby> it's quite ironic really, someone who doesn't give his real name in IRC saying that someone else is modifying his identity :-)
Oct 25 10:15:42 <swetland> dark: makes me a youngin' getting started in the 1200 baud days
Oct 25 10:15:51 <DarkriftX> 300/1200/2400baud
Oct 25 10:16:02 <DarkriftX> but none of the bbs's supported 1200 or 2400 when i was on them
Oct 25 10:16:07 <BruteSource> by the time you touched a keyboard it had broadband kid
Oct 25 10:16:32 <DarkriftX> that was on my trash 80 and then the 8088 i later built
Oct 25 10:16:48 <BruteSource> name one bbs net you used?
Oct 25 10:16:55 <rwhitby> DarkriftX: loved that trash 80
Oct 25 10:16:57 <swetland> you know what I miss. isdn.
Oct 25 10:17:00 <DarkriftX> so did i
Oct 25 10:17:02 <DarkriftX> basic FTW
Oct 25 10:17:02 <swetland> those were the days
Oct 25 10:17:15 <rwhitby> swetland: too expensive here.
Oct 25 10:17:16 <swetland> 128kbps was this unbelievable thing
Oct 25 10:17:18 <DarkriftX> i had pacman and et on cartridge
Oct 25 10:17:21 <BruteSource> write me a hello world right here in basic
Oct 25 10:17:34 <swetland> rwhitby: uiuc offered residential isdn data service to students when I was an undergrad
Oct 25 10:17:36 <DarkriftX> lol, yeah, that will prove something
Oct 25 10:17:38 <BruteSource> come on big shot
Oct 25 10:17:45 <DarkriftX> that was 15 years ago
Oct 25 10:17:46 <DarkriftX> or more
Oct 25 10:17:48 <BruteSource> ya your full of shit ee
Oct 25 10:17:50 <DarkriftX> yeah
Oct 25 10:17:53 <DarkriftX> troll!!!
Oct 25 10:17:57 <BruteSource> you never forget basic
Oct 25 10:18:00 <DarkriftX> 12 yr old that got proved wrong
Oct 25 10:18:05 <swetland> unlike email
Oct 25 10:18:05 <DarkriftX> i remember cases thats all
Oct 25 10:18:11 <swetland> people forget that all the time
Oct 25 10:18:20 <DarkriftX> case 1 do soemthing, case 2 do soemthing
Oct 25 10:18:32 <DarkriftX> i remember f5 ran the program
Oct 25 10:18:35 <rwhitby> don't forget to increment by 10 so you can insert statements at 5.
Oct 25 10:18:40 <BruteSource> yes im obviously 12 your just upset because the first machine you touched was a p3 and mine was an altair
Oct 25 10:18:45 <DarkriftX> and i had to have a cassette player to save my code
Oct 25 10:18:55 <DarkriftX> troll!!!
Oct 25 10:18:58 <spikebike> heh
Oct 25 10:19:02 <spikebike> imsai 8080 here
Oct 25 10:19:19 <swetland> timex sinclair clone and C64.
Oct 25 10:19:32 <BruteSource> all e can do is repeat insults while he is schooled how sad
Oct 25 10:19:35 <swetland> and here we fall victim to one of the classic geek conversation traps
Oct 25 10:19:46 <rwhitby> indeed
Oct 25 10:20:10 <rwhitby> it's always a classic sign of a troll being the first to resort to profanities
Oct 25 10:20:26 <BruteSource> actually that was him
Oct 25 10:20:28 <muthu> BruteSource: how you find this channel?
Oct 25 10:20:33 <swetland> I just want to know what's wrong with his email client
Oct 25 10:20:50 <DarkriftX> no, lets wait for the nazi declaration.... hes gonna call someone a nazi soon, its a law of nature
Oct 25 10:21:15 <swetland> actually, maybe he's that guy that used to go on and on about how we weren't open source and were a giant trick back on the android lists after the sdk release. he was entertaining.
Oct 25 10:21:22 <DarkriftX> swetland, hope hes not using a g1, if so theres a major bug.... g1's cannot send email to an @google.com domain!!
Oct 25 10:21:31 <BruteSource> i built the android kernel for my phone and had userspace questions, but i thought there was actually devs here, was my mistake
Oct 25 10:21:46 <DarkriftX> devs here?
Oct 25 10:21:47 <DarkriftX> wtf?
Oct 25 10:21:51 <DarkriftX> why would they come here?
Oct 25 10:21:59 <DarkriftX> you must be crazy, there arent any devs here :S
Oct 25 10:22:00 <BruteSource> ya stupid thought
Oct 25 10:22:13 <DarkriftX> ok, run along! maybe #googledevs has some!
Oct 25 10:22:23 <swetland> dark: I honestly don't know why romain keeps coming back to answer questions everyday. he's far too nice
Oct 25 10:22:34 <rwhitby> and morrildl
Oct 25 10:22:36 <DarkriftX> im sure its taking a toll on him
Oct 25 10:22:45 <DarkriftX> his patients seem to be wearing down
Oct 25 10:22:57 <swetland> well morrildl is a dev advocate, technically it is his job to answer questions.
Oct 25 10:23:04 <BruteSource> just crazy people who think thos projectisnt just some crappy linux kernel with some poor vm tacked on top, and shitty java to boot
Oct 25 10:23:07 <swetland> romain is just kinda hearted I think
Oct 25 10:23:16 <muthu> romainguy is the most consistent replier on this channel
Oct 25 10:23:18 <DarkriftX> that can get you killed..... being too nice
Oct 25 10:23:19 <DarkriftX> lol
Oct 25 10:23:31 <DarkriftX> heart attack from troll infestation on irc
Oct 25 10:23:34 <muthu> he might be burn out by now..
Oct 25 10:23:36 <muthu> haha
Oct 25 10:23:39 * rwhitby remembers chatting to swetland and morrildl on Nev 05 last year.
Oct 25 10:23:50 <rwhitby> http://logs.nslu2-linux.org/livelogs/android/
Oct 25 10:23:59 <swetland> rwhitby: well that was probably the *real* swetland and morrildl, not these imposters we have nowadays
Oct 25 10:23:59 <DarkriftX> FAKE!
Oct 25 10:24:18 <BruteSource> who was he then? linus trovalds?
Oct 25 10:24:27 <rwhitby> swetland: yeah, those two were far more reserved about what they said in public, so they must have been real Google employees ...
Oct 25 10:25:20 <BruteSource> half the people here dont even understand how this os even works
Oct 25 10:25:34 <DarkriftX> of course not, we have no devs to help us with that
Oct 25 10:25:40 <DarkriftX> sucks to be us
Oct 25 10:25:45 <BruteSource> running around claiming its not linix and posix doesnt exist
Oct 25 10:25:53 <DarkriftX> you should leave before the lack of knowledge infects you also
Oct 25 10:25:55 <swetland> considering that the channel is largely enthusiasts and app developers, that's not super surprising, really
Oct 25 10:26:07 <DarkriftX> <--- enthusiast
Oct 25 10:26:12 <BruteSource> saying its all java
Oct 25 10:26:15 <swetland> mind you, the app developers and enthusiasts tend to be less absusive
Oct 25 10:26:20 <swetland> so I don't mind them all that much
Oct 25 10:26:40 * DarkriftX slaps Dialekt upside the head
Oct 25 10:26:41 <BruteSource> it will never boot on anything but a dream till google wants is what you want to believe
Oct 25 10:26:49 <DarkriftX> hey Dialekt did you know there are no google devs here?
Oct 25 10:26:49 <Dialekt> droid bores
Oct 25 10:26:52 <swetland> that would be dumb to believe
Oct 25 10:26:58 <BruteSource> its far too complicated for us linux devs to port
Oct 25 10:27:03 * Dialekt doesn't car
Oct 25 10:27:03 <swetland> since it booted on non-dream hardware months ago
Oct 25 10:27:06 <Dialekt> care
Oct 25 10:27:13 <BruteSource> lmao oh no it only took 3 hours lmfao
Oct 25 10:27:15 * Dialekt hugs his iPhone till Blackberry storm
Oct 25 10:27:17 <swetland> the guy who did the vogue port was particularly impressive
Oct 25 10:27:20 <DarkriftX> its booting on wm devies all over
Oct 25 10:27:27 <swetland> brute: excellent. working as intended.
Oct 25 10:27:28 <DarkriftX> using haret
Oct 25 10:27:47 <BruteSource> vouge?... you mean vox tard
Oct 25 10:27:49 <DarkriftX> lol
Oct 25 10:27:57 <swetland> I think somebody is a bit confused as to why exactly we released the source code
Oct 25 10:28:09 <swetland> oh come on, you were more entertaining before you resorted to name calling
Oct 25 10:28:35 <BruteSource> you didnt release it, its copyleft you used a linux kernel you had no choice
Oct 25 10:28:36 <swetland> give you 5 minutes to actually send me an email, before I drop you on /ignore and forget about it
Oct 25 10:29:02 <DarkriftX> you going to show him how to email?
Oct 25 10:29:02 <swetland> brute: there are a few million lines of apache2.0 and bsd licensed userspace code out there too, but, hey, details
Oct 25 10:29:11 <BruteSource> i sent the email the proof is posted on the xda general forum firstthread first post
Oct 25 10:29:16 <swetland> nah, if he can't figure it out on his own I doubt I can help
Oct 25 10:29:36 <rwhitby> ssshhhh, the troll is sleeping ...
Oct 25 10:29:45 <DarkriftX> oh, you didnt put that in public... you poor thing
Oct 25 10:29:48 <BruteSource> userspace not kernel
Oct 25 10:29:51 <DarkriftX> you are going to get bastardized
Oct 25 10:30:24 <rwhitby> DarkriftX: this is in public too - Google visits the IRC logs of this channel quite often :-)
Oct 25 10:30:34 <DarkriftX> not the REAL google
Oct 25 10:30:38 <BruteSource> you used a gpl'd kernel... you had to release the source, it wasnt  choice, do some research kid
Oct 25 10:30:45 <DarkriftX> you?
Oct 25 10:30:59 <DarkriftX> you talking to him like he is part of google?
Oct 25 10:31:06 <swetland> brute: indeed, and as I pointed out we've been releasing it for roughly a year prior to the product shipping ^^
Oct 25 10:31:08 <DarkriftX> you are a confusing one
Oct 25 10:31:41 <DarkriftX> so he believes you are a google employee but doesnt want to admit it
Oct 25 10:31:45 <DarkriftX> because then he would be wrong
Oct 25 10:31:59 <swetland> I apparently fail at forums too, because I can't find this post. it's late though
Oct 25 10:32:00 <DarkriftX> he probably knew right before he sent the email, just in time to fake it
Oct 25 10:32:00 <BruteSource> your the one who jut contradicted yourself, you just said google made the choice to release the soure
Oct 25 10:32:04 <BruteSource> source
Oct 25 10:32:34 <DarkriftX> no, he knows he is not google, thats all that proves
Oct 25 10:32:35 <DarkriftX> sanity
Oct 25 10:33:12 <BruteSource> pwnt again
Oct 25 10:33:20 <Dialekt> YAWN.
Oct 25 10:33:48 <DarkriftX> Dialekt, been by a tmob store to play with a g1 yet?
Oct 25 10:33:53 <Dialekt> nope
Oct 25 10:33:55 <Dialekt> don't need to
Oct 25 10:33:59 <Dialekt> i'm passing on it
Oct 25 10:34:03 <DarkriftX> heh
Oct 25 10:34:04 <BruteSource> time for sleep night script kittens have fun with your make believe world
Oct 25 10:34:06 <Dialekt> hey there's no pop up text is there?
Oct 25 10:34:10 <Dialekt> for sms messages
Oct 25 10:34:13 <DarkriftX> bye
Oct 25 10:34:15 <DarkriftX> goodnight
Oct 25 10:34:21 <rwhitby> night BruteSource, thanks for the laughs.
Oct 25 10:34:25 <swetland> dark: we should be so lucky!
Oct 25 10:34:29 <DarkriftX> lol
Oct 25 10:34:45 <DarkriftX> .....
Oct 25 10:34:54 <DarkriftX> it was too good to be true
Oct 25 10:35:11 * rwhitby reckons http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=286344 was BruteSource's forum post ...
Oct 25 10:35:13 <BruteSource> the laughs come from the logsi poted on the google code forums... lmao oh no maybe swetland will delete them since he owns google
Oct 25 10:35:31 <DarkriftX> sorry guys, guess you have to keep your google bnc's on a little longer
Oct 25 10:35:55 <Dialekt> WELL?
Oct 25 10:36:03 <Dialekt> DARKLIFT
Oct 25 10:36:06 <Dialekt> lol
Oct 25 10:36:29 <DarkriftX> not sure
Oct 25 10:36:31 <DarkriftX> havent used it
Oct 25 10:37:03 * rwhitby waits for BruteSource to post URLs of all these forums posts - searching is sooo tedious
Oct 25 10:37:24 <DarkriftX> idea!
Oct 25 10:38:33 <DarkriftX> searched xda for "swetland" (would be in the email header he was sending) and it wasnt found in that context
Oct 25 10:38:44 <DarkriftX> so that was 2 lies
Oct 25 10:38:53 <DarkriftX> he didnt even try to cover his second lie up with a third
Oct 25 10:39:19 * DarkriftX was hoping he would bite on that @godaddy.com email thing...... that would have been funny
Oct 25 10:39:31 <rwhitby> DarkriftX: swetland owns the xda forums too, and deleted the post there as well
Oct 25 10:39:43 <DarkriftX> yeah, i figured as much
Oct 25 10:40:43 <swetland> I was expecting some impressively ginned up screenshot of an email or something proving how fake I was
Oct 25 10:40:49 <DarkriftX> lol
Oct 25 10:40:52 <swetland> it was a bit of a letdown for there to not even be a thread
Oct 25 10:41:21 <swetland> I totally was trolled by somebody who's heart isn't even in it
Oct 25 10:41:37 <DarkriftX> funny thing is, i knew better then to get into that
Oct 25 10:41:40 <DarkriftX> once you do, you cannot get out
Oct 25 10:41:50 <DarkriftX> internet fights are addictive
Oct 25 10:41:51 <rwhitby> swetland: he couldn't find the BBS gateway to the forum
Oct 25 10:41:56 <swetland> ahaha
Oct 25 10:41:59 <DarkriftX> lol
Oct 25 10:42:17 <DarkriftX> write me a hello world in basic
Oct 25 10:42:19 <DarkriftX> !LOL!
Oct 25 10:42:29 <DarkriftX> thats proof to everything
Oct 25 10:42:32 <swetland> yeah, as soon as I took the bait and pointed him at an email address I knew I was going to lose this little game
Oct 25 10:42:45 <rwhitby> write me one in Z80 machine code.  C3 for absolute jumps.
Oct 25 10:42:47 <DarkriftX> remembering a programming language that died 10 years ago
Oct 25 10:43:40 <swetland> in my defense it was late and I was bored, but honestly, should know better by now
Oct 25 10:44:21 <DarkriftX> lol
Oct 25 10:44:31 <DarkriftX> i didnt say it wasnt fun, but it lasted longer then id have liked
Oct 25 10:44:34 <swetland> I was then hoping he would call me out on the discussion groups, because I'd totally be hearing about it at work all next week
Oct 25 10:44:39 <DarkriftX> and he never did bring up nazi's....
Oct 25 10:45:41 <nebi> no godwin's law ? :(
Oct 25 10:45:58 <swetland> well, points for avoiding cliches I guess
Oct 25 10:46:03 <DarkriftX> thats what its called
Oct 25 10:46:05 <swetland> anyone seen any particularly cool apps recently
Oct 25 10:46:07 <DarkriftX> godwins law :)
Oct 25 10:46:18 <DarkriftX> swetland, no but if oyu do, let me know so i can put them on my site :)
Oct 25 10:46:54 <swetland> get your download issues sorted out?
Oct 25 10:47:11 <DarkriftX> for now
Oct 25 10:47:18 <DarkriftX> still working on moving it back out of the forums
Oct 25 10:47:21 <DarkriftX> but for now its doing good
Oct 25 10:47:28 <DarkriftX> 250 members in 3 days
Oct 25 10:47:54 <DarkriftX> 500-800 unique visitors a day and the site is barely 2 weeks old
Oct 25 10:49:28 <DarkriftX> ok, goodnight all
Oct 25 10:49:33 <DarkriftX> 4am here and im supposed to be up early :S
Oct 25 10:50:06 <swetland> 'night
Oct 25 10:52:59 <DarkriftX> i just had a funny idea
Oct 25 10:53:22 <swetland> ut oh!
Oct 25 10:53:31 <DarkriftX> you should post on a blog somewhere about the "fun conversation we had with BruteSource about how there are not enough Google devs on irc"
Oct 25 10:53:49 <DarkriftX> just enough to have his name on there and prove him a jackass
Oct 25 10:54:18 <swetland> I don't blog.  I restrict making a fool of myself to irc and assorted mailing lists.
Oct 25 10:54:35 <DarkriftX> lol
Oct 25 10:54:44 <swetland> and honestly he totally wins for getting me to even respond to his ranting about email addresses and such, so hat off to our troll
Oct 25 10:54:49 <geist> and internet spaceships
Oct 25 10:54:57 <swetland> geist: foul lies
Oct 25 10:55:09 <DarkriftX> well the idea gave me a giggle so it was worth it in that regard
Oct 25 10:55:32 <swetland> indeed
Oct 25 11:55:27 <dmserver> 4:
Oct 25 11:56:12 <dmserver> exit
Oct 25 12:54:30 <Delvien> anyone find a working irc client for android (g1)
Oct 25 13:01:36 * CompBrain waves to rwhitby -- long time no see
Oct 25 13:01:46 <rwhitby> hey CompBrain
Oct 25 13:02:57 <CompBrain> rwhitby: how many projects are you working on these days?
Oct 25 13:03:21 <rwhitby> close to none.
Oct 25 13:03:36 <rwhitby> lots of following, very little working (apart from real life working)
Oct 25 13:11:35 <CompBrain> I'm waiting for your obligitory photo of a buildfarm of G1s
Oct 25 13:16:29 <thoraxe> does the email application ever bother to refresh the imap folders?  because I deleted some folders from an account and they are still in the phone.  do i need to re-create the account?
Oct 25 13:47:55 <calmfury> has any got this running on an x86 system yet?
Oct 25 13:59:00 <calmfur1> anyone got this running on x86 yet?
Oct 25 14:11:01 <calmfur1> anyone running this on x86?
Oct 25 14:13:16 <Dougie187> calmfur1: running what on x86?
Oct 25 14:13:26 <Kontuus> android
Oct 25 14:13:49 <Dougie187> well.. android source? or what?
Oct 25 14:14:02 <Dougie187> i know the SDK runs.
Oct 25 14:14:06 <Dougie187> lol
Oct 25 14:14:09 <kontuus> :p
Oct 25 14:15:01 <michaelnovakjr_> i have it running on x86
Oct 25 14:15:07 <michaelnovakjr_> i replaced my linux distro with it
Oct 25 14:15:10 <Dougie187> lol
Oct 25 14:15:27 <michaelnovakjr_> :)
Oct 25 14:15:33 <Dougie187> omg, i want the sdk to be my default boot too!
Oct 25 14:17:19 <Dougie187> michaelnovakjr_: hows your weekend so far?
Oct 25 14:20:48 <michaelnovakjr_> not bad
Oct 25 14:20:50 <michaelnovakjr_> you?
Oct 25 14:21:05 <Dougie187> not too bad. i have to go to the doctors today.
Oct 25 14:21:17 <michaelnovakjr_> that is always fun
Oct 25 14:21:57 <Dougie187> yeah, i might have some sort of throat infection, like strep
Oct 25 14:22:00 <Dougie187> :(
Oct 25 14:22:03 <michaelnovakjr_> ouch
Oct 25 14:22:07 <Dougie187> yeah. but ionno
Oct 25 14:22:29 <Dougie187> otherwise we have to do some grocery shopping
Oct 25 14:22:33 <michaelnovakjr_> i'm getting back into android development
Oct 25 14:22:42 <Dougie187> nice.
Oct 25 14:22:52 <Dougie187> you're helping out with five right?
Oct 25 14:23:00 <michaelnovakjr_> yea
Oct 25 14:23:04 <Dougie187> thats cool
Oct 25 14:23:28 <Dougie187> are you working on anything else?
Oct 25 14:23:51 <michaelnovakjr_> i'm writing an RSS app
Oct 25 14:23:54 <michaelnovakjr_> simple
Oct 25 14:24:00 <Dougie187> good ol' feed reader?
Oct 25 14:24:07 <michaelnovakjr_> yep
Oct 25 14:24:08 <Dougie187> cool
Oct 25 14:24:23 <Dougie187> i need to write that electric fence thing at some point, but i don't know when im going to get around to it.
Oct 25 14:24:30 <michaelnovakjr_> :)
Oct 25 14:24:31 <Dougie187> so much other crap to do, with homework and research and all.
Oct 25 14:24:42 <michaelnovakjr_> yea, i've been quite busy myself
Oct 25 14:24:53 <Dougie187> oh yeah?
Oct 25 14:25:02 <michaelnovakjr_> yea work has been nuts
Oct 25 14:25:07 <Dougie187> thats no good. heh
Oct 25 14:25:14 <landslide> the maps application seems to be missing from the stack...
Oct 25 14:25:23 <Dougie187> well hey we are going to run to the doctors now. so i will talk to you later.
Oct 25 14:25:29 <Dougie187> have a good saturday.
Oct 25 14:25:31 <michaelnovakjr_> good luck
Oct 25 14:25:33 <Dougie187> thanks
Oct 25 14:34:41 <Disconnect> who was it who was working on a libspark xmpp client?
Oct 25 14:34:55 * Disconnect could use a jabber client pretty bad now that ssh is covered by connectbot
Oct 25 14:37:21 <michaelnovakjr_> Disconnect: is exchange support in the mail client?
Oct 25 14:37:31 <Disconnect> the mail client is a total disaster
Oct 25 14:37:53 <Disconnect> it doesn't post any changes to the server, most of the time. and it never (ever) posts deletes.
Oct 25 14:38:07 <michaelnovakjr_> oh nice
Oct 25 14:38:11 <Disconnect> yah real nice
Oct 25 14:38:20 <Disconnect> and no, even if it worked its just imap/pop
Oct 25 14:38:27 <michaelnovakjr_> interesting
Oct 25 14:38:36 <Disconnect> and you have to select "ssl if available" (or tls if available) to force ssl/tls with untrusted certs.
Oct 25 14:38:47 <Disconnect> ooh that reminds me. 2 more bugs to file about that half-written mess.
Oct 25 14:39:17 <michaelnovakjr_> can you put the market on the emulator?
Oct 25 14:39:18 <|Jeff|> Which Eclipse package is best to download? Does it Matter? ie. for Java EE Deveopers vs. without EE vs. Classic ...
Oct 25 14:39:41 <michaelnovakjr_> I use Eclipse EE but i don't think it matters
Oct 25 14:39:53 <michaelnovakjr_> just do yourself a favor and use Java 1.5
Oct 25 14:40:46 <michaelnovakjr_> Eclipse EE includes J2EE packages, so no not needed
Oct 25 14:40:50 <igorgue> this is a right place to ask non-developers questions (I'm a developer but can't find a way to do a "user" thing ;))
Oct 25 14:40:56 <Disconnect> sure
Oct 25 14:41:05 <|Jeff|> I have never programmed in Java, but looking to play with Android. Just have experience with VB and tiny bit of C along time ago. Can you explain using Java 1.5 michaelnovajr
Oct 25 14:41:07 <igorgue> album art...
Oct 25 14:41:28 <michaelnovakjr_> |Jeff|: its the version of Java Android uses
Oct 25 14:41:29 <|Jeff|> eclipse is harder?
Oct 25 14:41:32 <igorgue> where do you put it to add it with an album?
Oct 25 14:41:41 <michaelnovakjr_> |Jeff|: Eclipse is just an IDE
Oct 25 14:41:51 <Disconnect> |Jeff|: headfirst java is a good book for learning/relearning java
Oct 25 14:42:11 <|Jeff|> thanks Disconnect.. I was going to ask that also
Oct 25 14:42:37 <michaelnovakjr_> Effective Java is also a good book
Oct 25 14:43:01 <igorgue> we can list a thousand of good Java books here :)
Oct 25 14:43:34 <|Jeff|> I find the problem with alot of books is they either only show you the very basics (so you can't do anything useful) or they get really complicated and you can't figure out what they are saying.  Hopefully I can find good examples to learn from and learn by trial and error. lol
Oct 25 14:44:24 <Disconnect> |Jeff|: headfirst uses the same methods as the 'dummies' books and similar, but with advanced topics. makes it real easy to learn quickly.
Oct 25 14:45:10 <|Jeff|> cool.  I have heard Java is very similar to C. I also have heard Java is slower then C... So why is everything Java???
Oct 25 14:46:19 <michaelnovakjr_> java really isn't like C
Oct 25 14:46:19 <igorgue> |Jeff|: optimization is not the must important thing...
Oct 25 14:47:02 <|Jeff|> Is Java easier then C? Better libraries? More open?
Oct 25 14:47:09 <igorgue> with platforms like .NET or Java you can develop software really fast... avoiding a lot of mistakes you make in C with things like a garbage collector for example
Oct 25 14:47:25 <igorgue> anyone? album-art -> songs?
Oct 25 14:48:08 <igorgue> I'm googling now... sorry for asking before searching :P
Oct 25 14:48:28 <michaelnovakjr_> sorry, haven't looked at the music player yet
Oct 25 14:48:30 <igorgue> http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers/browse_thread/thread/fcd3ba6414e5eb96/9f93c11d76bad946?show_docid=9f93c11d76bad946&pli=1
Oct 25 14:48:52 <igorgue> my very same question
Oct 25 14:49:35 <Ramblurr> does anyone know how (or know of an example) of a paging listview, where the datastructure in the backend contains more items than what's displayed?
Oct 25 14:49:47 <Ramblurr> and as the user scrolls more items are retrieved
Oct 25 14:50:01 <michaelnovakjr_> Disconnect: so it looks like i found my project to work on.... write a better mail client with exchange support :)
Oct 25 14:50:30 <Disconnect> suits me, the old one is a mess. although i'm already out of space and i've barely got anything installed.. maybe write a mail client that uses sd card for storage too
Oct 25 14:50:44 <michaelnovakjr_> definitely
Oct 25 14:50:51 <Disconnect> (that'd be a good place for browser cache too..)
Oct 25 14:51:02 <michaelnovakjr_> it doesn't use it?
Oct 25 14:51:26 <Disconnect> michaelnovakjr: nope. according to app manager its 18 megs on main storage, clearing cache wiped that out.
Oct 25 14:51:38 <michaelnovakjr_> damn
Oct 25 14:52:35 <Disconnect> seems like a "dump replacable things" call would be useful, instead of making me go into browser and dump cache every time it warns :(
Oct 25 14:53:02 <michaelnovakjr_> yea, kinda like garbage collection :)
Oct 25 14:53:21 <Disconnect> yah for storage items tho
Oct 25 14:53:25 <michaelnovakjr_> yea
Oct 25 14:53:29 <michaelnovakjr_> like browser cache
Oct 25 14:53:42 <michaelnovakjr_> geek attempt at a joke :)
Oct 25 14:54:29 * Disconnect probably wouldn't have gotten the phone if he'd realized how locked down it was. 
Oct 25 14:54:45 <Disconnect> its one thing to prevent hackery. its another to prevent (eg) removing and replacing the shipped apps...
Oct 25 14:54:59 <jbq> what can't you replace?
Oct 25 14:55:09 <michaelnovakjr_> i'd like to get it running on n810
Oct 25 14:55:13 <Disconnect> according to romainguy_ the imap problems are fixed in dev. but short of renaming it and reinstalling it (see above note about storage..) its not gonna do any good.
Oct 25 14:57:05 <jbq> If you could remove it, you couldn't do a factory reset any more and get back to the original state.
Oct 25 14:58:10 <Disconnect> ...trust me, thats not an issue. i'd be fine with a factory reset that just had platform (after all, easy enough to install the rest off the net)
Oct 25 14:58:50 <calmfur1> sorry should have been specific has anyone got the dalvik source compiled and running on an x86 platform
Oct 25 15:00:29 <jbq> Going back, FWIW, there are 2 different mechanisms that apps can use to automatically free up some storage space. I don't think that the browser currently uses any of them.
Oct 25 15:07:40 <Disconnect> bug #1068 filed
Oct 25 15:08:20 <jbq> thanks
Oct 25 15:23:45 <Disconnect> yaaah how do i get gmote server to f'ing die??
Oct 25 15:24:25 <Disconnect> it just sits there playing music at me and hiding
Oct 25 15:25:45 <Ramblurr> anyone know where in the source tree the GMail app is?
Oct 25 15:26:08 <Disconnect> its not
Oct 25 15:27:51 <Ramblurr> hmm you're right,  http://source.android.com/projects it's not in the "core"
Oct 25 15:27:59 <Disconnect> its closed source
Oct 25 15:28:17 <michaelnovakjr_> Disconnect: ??
Oct 25 15:28:19 <Ramblurr> i wanted to see how they implemented the paging listview, so when you scroll to the bottom of the list it loads more emails on the fly
Oct 25 15:28:28 <michaelnovakjr_> is that different from the Email app?
Oct 25 15:28:31 <Disconnect> Ramblurr: email app does that on occasion
Oct 25 15:28:36 <Disconnect> (and occasionally not)
Oct 25 15:29:49 <Ramblurr> is the email app OS?
Oct 25 15:29:56 <michaelnovakjr_> yes
Oct 25 15:30:03 <michaelnovakjr_> its in packages/apps
Oct 25 15:30:10 <Disconnect> michaelnovakjr: ?
Oct 25 15:30:31 <michaelnovakjr_> Email app is in packages/apps.... theres a GMail app in addition to that?
Oct 25 15:30:44 <Disconnect> ooh i can use shazam to figure out what song this is and lsof to find it. then i get the axe.
Oct 25 15:31:02 <Disconnect> on the phone, gmail app. its similar to the j2me version, only better (except it only does one account)
Oct 25 15:31:13 <michaelnovakjr_> ah i see
Oct 25 15:31:22 <michaelnovakjr_> they need to ship the emulator with all these apps on it
Oct 25 15:31:30 <Disconnect> unlikely to ahppen
Oct 25 15:31:42 <michaelnovakjr_> i don't see the issue with it
Oct 25 15:31:59 <Disconnect> ugh. all morning its on edge. stupid f'ing thing. i can stream video to/from my mbp but the phone can't even stay barely connected
Oct 25 15:32:57 <Disconnect> oh thats just brilliant. the song doesn't seem to exist on my laptop. (wtf?? sigh)
Oct 25 15:37:43 <SanMehat> morning
Oct 25 15:39:13 <Disconnect> and its in loop. i'm gonna throw this thing through a window.
Oct 25 15:39:31 <SanMehat> whats going on?
Oct 25 15:39:45 <Disconnect> gmote started something playing, and won't stop or change or anything. even when its killed off.
Oct 25 15:39:53 <Disconnect> and i can't find it in the ps list
Oct 25 15:40:01 <SanMehat> its playing audio?
Oct 25 15:40:03 <SanMehat> ps -t?
Oct 25 15:40:05 <Disconnect> yah
Oct 25 15:40:28 <SanMehat> oh. its playing audio on what.. the device?
Oct 25 15:40:30 <Disconnect> i just went over everything, no luck. and i can't even find the file
Oct 25 15:40:32 <Disconnect> on the mbp
Oct 25 15:40:36 <SanMehat> mbp?
Oct 25 15:40:49 <Disconnect> macbook
Oct 25 15:41:26 <SanMehat> oh
Oct 25 15:41:34 <Disconnect> ok its officially found a song that is not in my itunes library. and 'locate' can't find anything like it either. and its definitely looping
Oct 25 15:41:53 <SanMehat> sorry man, i dont really know much about macs :)
Oct 25 15:42:31 <Disconnect> oh neat. it can play 2 songs at once. this is not better.
Oct 25 15:42:47 <SanMehat> haha
Oct 25 15:43:15 <Disconnect> oh thats lovely. the -new- song is playing via itunes. kill that off.. old song is still playing.
Oct 25 15:43:19 <Disconnect> and there was only one itunes proc
Oct 25 15:43:31 <Disconnect> i refuse to reboot to get this thing to stfu but .. might have to.
Oct 25 15:44:10 <SanMehat> so you cant find *anything* in ps?
Oct 25 15:44:12 <SanMehat> wierd.
Oct 25 15:44:24 <SanMehat> you can't query to see who has the audio device open on macos?
Oct 25 15:45:17 <plusminus_> doesn't sth lik android:columnSpan exist for TableLayout ?
Oct 25 15:45:21 <plusminus_> or TableRow...
Oct 25 15:45:27 <illuminum> is there a shell application yet?
Oct 25 15:45:29 <illuminum> anywhere?
Oct 25 15:45:31 <illuminum> even in development?
Oct 25 15:45:36 <illuminum> some kind of terminal app
Oct 25 15:45:46 <plusminus_> connectbot?
Oct 25 15:45:58 <illuminum> doesn't work for me, plus i'm interested in localhost
Oct 25 15:46:04 <wastrel> no shell.
Oct 25 15:46:07 <plusminus_> kk
Oct 25 15:46:13 <illuminum> i.e. the android shell itself, though i'd be semi-content with connectbot if it worked
Oct 25 15:46:22 <illuminum> ever or just for the time being?
Oct 25 15:46:35 <wastrel> currently or in the near future afaik
Oct 25 15:46:42 <illuminum> icic
Oct 25 15:47:41 <illuminum> so connectbot works for you guys?
Oct 25 15:47:54 <wastrel> to connect to remote hosts yes it's worked
Oct 25 15:48:33 <illuminum> ic, i never get the rsa fingerprint prompt
Oct 25 15:48:36 <Disconnect> illuminum: 'adb shell' from the sdk
Oct 25 15:48:37 <illuminum> just a blank screen
Oct 25 15:48:40 <illuminum> sook
Oct 25 15:48:47 <Disconnect> illuminum: it doesn't prompt. and it only supports password auth :/
Oct 25 15:49:02 <illuminum> password auth? how do i do that?
Oct 25 15:49:15 <illuminum> login:pass@host ?
Oct 25 15:50:04 <illuminum> or do i put my public key string in character for character somewhere?
Oct 25 15:51:20 <Disconnect> no the server can offer 'password' auth which is cleartext password wrapped with ssl
Oct 25 15:51:57 <Disconnect> most servers use 'interactive' which is a challenge-response
Oct 25 15:52:52 <illuminum> aye
Oct 25 15:56:45 <Fiyuri> http://www.clanplanet.de/_sites/index.asp?rn=&clanid=10972
Oct 25 15:59:01 <theCarpenter> would there be anything stopping me from converting the package manager (Marketplace) into a regular installable app you can simulate in the emulator?
Oct 25 16:01:47 <illuminum> cool i got in
Oct 25 16:01:54 <illuminum> had to mod my sshd_config
Oct 25 16:02:03 <illuminum> vim works
Oct 25 16:02:04 <illuminum> excellent
Oct 25 16:02:29 <illuminum> anyone know where the escape key is on a g1?
Oct 25 16:03:26 <illuminum> argh is there no escape key
Oct 25 16:08:41 <SanMehat> i'm not sure.. you may need to bind another key for your meta
Oct 25 16:08:51 <batteryface> Is 3G required to operate the G1?
Oct 25 16:09:06 <SanMehat> batteryface: no, but its preferred.
Oct 25 16:09:26 <batteryface> I was told that you could not interact with the phone at all if you did not have 3G.
Oct 25 16:09:41 <SanMehat> you were told wrong.
Oct 25 16:09:49 <batteryface> Stupid sales associate. I figured.
Oct 25 16:09:50 <SanMehat> it works over EDGE, but just not as fast obviously
Oct 25 16:10:19 <batteryface> I'm not looking to use the browser...etc on any kind of cell network. I only wish to use it on my wifi network.
Oct 25 16:10:45 <SanMehat> what do you want to use it for?
Oct 25 16:10:45 <batteryface> I'll use EDGE for the phone though. I am just intrigued by Android. I really don't care about anything else.
Oct 25 16:19:40 <batteryface> Those mobile vendors really need to think about who they hire.
Oct 25 16:19:55 <batteryface> They probably lose a ton of customers because of false information.
Oct 25 16:27:07 <outbri> what do you do in eclipse when you get this error? Android Editors (0.8.0.v200809220836-110569) requires plug-in "org.eclipse.wst.sse.ui".
Oct 25 16:28:01 <Disconnect> batteryface: correct info costs more than incorrect
Oct 25 16:28:20 <Disconnect> hiring-wise that is
Oct 25 16:30:27 <outbri> ^ I get that error when I try to set up the https://dl-ssl.google.com/android/eclipse/ plugin.
Oct 25 16:40:30 <romainguy> Ramblurr: i wanted to see how they implemented the paging listview, so when you scroll to the bottom of the list it loads more emails on the fly << you can look at the source of the Email application for this
Oct 25 16:41:02 <Ramblurr> romainguy: hey thanks, i'll have a look
Oct 25 16:41:17 <Ramblurr> romainguy: you're the/an android dev working on listview right?
Oct 25 16:41:23 <romainguy> yes
Oct 25 16:41:41 <romainguy> (gotta run, see ya)
Oct 25 16:41:46 <Ramblurr> thanks, later
Oct 25 16:42:30 <illuminum> sucks i can't map shit to : from insert mode in vim
Oct 25 16:42:45 <illuminum> crapcrap sucky sucky oh well i guess i cant code on the shitter just yet
Oct 25 16:43:13 <illuminum> :o zodttd
Oct 25 16:44:04 <Disconnect> damnit its still playing
Oct 25 16:44:31 <SanMehat> Disconnect: reboot man!
Oct 25 16:45:07 <Disconnect> :(
Oct 25 16:45:16 <SanMehat> i know i know
Oct 25 16:45:17 <SanMehat> it sucks
Oct 25 16:45:22 <SanMehat> but you gotta think of your *sanity*
Oct 25 16:45:26 <Disconnect> mute
Oct 25 16:45:36 <SanMehat> haha
Oct 25 16:45:45 <SanMehat> tenacious bastard :)
Oct 25 16:49:30 <Disconnect> ok so a datetime picker in eclipse is .. just awful. huge and a half. total mess. is it that bad in the device or is it ok? hoping it would have reasonable defaults
Oct 25 16:50:35 * waldo_ is back (gone 07:02:55)
Oct 25 16:50:51 <SanMehat> where were you? :)
Oct 25 16:52:25 <yakischloba> haha
Oct 25 16:52:31 <Disconnect> clearly we should all be deeply concerned about his idles and unidles :)
Oct 25 16:53:41 <yakischloba> i am
Oct 25 16:55:32 <theCarpenter> so, would there be anything stopping me from converting the package manager (Marketplace) into a regular installable app you can simulate in the emulator?
Oct 25 16:56:02 <SanMehat> hey VickiWong
Oct 25 16:57:01 <VickiWong> hello SanMehat :) how are you?
Oct 25 16:58:28 <SanMehat> good :)
Oct 25 16:58:32 <SanMehat> oh *theres* waldo
Oct 25 16:58:39 <SanMehat> (that *never* gets old for me)
Oct 25 16:58:53 <VickiWong> lol
Oct 25 16:58:58 <waldo_> or me.
Oct 25 16:59:51 <SanMehat> hahaha
Oct 25 16:59:58 <SanMehat> sorry.. :)
Oct 25 17:00:20 <waldo_> no worries
Oct 25 17:00:23 <waldo_> used to it
Oct 25 17:00:42 <Disconnect> yay yay yay i found the problem. it opened something in a web browser somewhere that was playing tuneage
Oct 25 17:01:49 <Disconnect> ooooooooh damn its not gmote's fault. thats right. i found a TOS violating site @ work and it had an autoplay. doh. (it was a hooker advertising various massages, all with "sensual release".. and "tasteful" nudity on her pics.. neither of which we allow..)
Oct 25 17:01:59 <Disconnect> i withdraw all the terrible things i said about it :)
Oct 25 17:03:03 <SanMehat> hahaha
Oct 25 17:03:28 * Disconnect didn't think about it - found it last night, still had the thing muted
Oct 25 17:03:37 <Disconnect> then today when i loaded up gmote, i hit play before i unmuted...
Oct 25 17:06:11 <jadams> is there a way to transfer files to the G1 over the wireless network?  Do any apps exist for this?
Oct 25 17:06:57 <Disconnect> get it via browser
Oct 25 17:08:34 <Surye> Hmm.. so is there no way to develop on hardware using 64bit Vista?
Oct 25 17:08:40 <Surye> "If you're developing on Windows (32-bit only), you need to install the USB driver for adb: "
Oct 25 17:09:14 <muthu> yo yo yo
Oct 25 17:11:36 <Disconnect> sure there is. get a virtualbox 32bit ubuntu box :)
Oct 25 17:12:00 <Surye> Incidentally, that's is booting as we speak :P
Oct 25 17:12:42 <calmfur1> logout
Oct 25 17:12:44 <Disconnect> lol
Oct 25 17:13:59 <calmfur1> :-[
Oct 25 17:14:17 <Disconnect> and for the record, again, i hate xml layouts. or they hate me.
Oct 25 17:14:30 <Disconnect> calmfur1: not you
Oct 25 17:14:31 <malcom_> someone can tell me what's the best book around for Android development (http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_b?url=search-alias%3Dstripbooks&field-keywords=google+android&x=0&y=0)
Oct 25 17:14:35 <malcom_> ?
Oct 25 17:15:33 <malcom_> Professional Android Application Development seems to be a great choice
Oct 25 17:15:51 <malcom_> but it's not released yet
Oct 25 17:20:55 <mpardo> I have an activity that i want to display a toast message in and then immediately close the activity. how do i do this?
Oct 25 17:22:05 <mpardo> this is what i have and it's not working...
Oct 25 17:22:14 <mpardo> Toast.makeText(this.getBaseContext(), "Contact added", Toast.LENGTH_LONG);
Oct 25 17:22:15 <mpardo> this.finish();
Oct 25 17:22:45 <qvark> mpardo: why not?
Oct 25 17:22:51 <mpardo> dunno... lol
Oct 25 17:23:30 <qvark> mpardo: but the activity is finished right after the toast is shown
Oct 25 17:23:49 <mpardo> the toast doesn't show... the activity just finishes
Oct 25 17:24:45 <qvark> mpardo: you can send yourself a delayed message and call finish() when received
Oct 25 17:25:08 <mpardo> explain plz
Oct 25 17:25:32 <qvark> mpardo: let me  2 min to find an example
Oct 25 17:25:53 <mpardo> ok
Oct 25 17:33:02 <qvark> mpardo: something like:
Oct 25 17:33:04 <qvark> Toast.makeText(...)
Oct 25 17:33:04 <qvark> new Handler().postDelayed(new Runnable() {
Oct 25 17:33:04 <qvark>             public void run() {
Oct 25 17:33:04 <qvark>           YourActivity.this.finish();
Oct 25 17:33:04 <qvark>          }
Oct 25 17:33:05 <qvark>      }, DURATION_IN_MS);
Oct 25 17:33:24 <mpardo> ok thx
Oct 25 17:33:28 <umdk1d3> that isnt duration in MS
Oct 25 17:33:33 <umdk1d3> its either a constant SHORT or LONG
Oct 25 17:33:37 <umdk1d3> ohwait
Oct 25 17:33:38 <umdk1d3> lol
Oct 25 17:33:38 <umdk1d3> sr
Oct 25 17:33:42 <qvark> ;)
Oct 25 17:33:43 <umdk1d3> thought that was related to the toast
Oct 25 17:34:17 * umdk1d3 needs more coffee
Oct 25 17:35:13 <mpardo> and on the topic of toast duration, can you set the duration to a custom time besides short or long?
Oct 25 17:36:04 <qvark> I never have managed to do it
Oct 25 17:36:20 <qvark> if you find a way I would like to know
Oct 25 17:36:23 <mpardo> ok
Oct 25 17:36:55 <umdk1d3> by design you can only choose between SHORT and LONG
Oct 25 17:37:19 <Disconnect> didn't i see an amarok remote somewhere?
Oct 25 17:37:36 <kunthecronos> quit
Oct 25 17:37:40 <Disconnect> no
Oct 25 17:37:54 <kunthecronos> ops sorry :S
Oct 25 17:38:00 <Disconnect> :)
Oct 25 17:38:01 <Ramblurr> is android.media.MediaFile not in the latest sdk?
Oct 25 17:40:03 <yakischloba> Hrm. In my apartment in the supposedly rich service area my signal is so bad that I'm actually missing calls.
Oct 25 17:46:59 <muthu> yakischloba: welcome to shitty carrier networks
Oct 25 17:50:31 <jaek_> anyone know if there is an ssh client?
Oct 25 17:50:43 <tparkin> #connectbot
Oct 25 17:51:00 <tparkin> http://code.google.com/p/connectbot/
Oct 25 17:53:34 <umdk1d3> ill check it
Oct 25 17:54:10 <jaek_> seems like nobody ported a ssh client to android?
Oct 25 17:54:26 <spikebike> er
Oct 25 17:54:32 <spikebike> how is connectbot not a shh client?
Oct 25 17:54:49 <hrhr> hi, anybody have experience to run android on nokia n8x0 builded from latest opened sources?
Oct 25 17:57:04 <tparkin> jaek_: did you see the links I posted?
Oct 25 17:57:44 <jaek_> oh that was for me? checking...
Oct 25 17:58:03 <jaek_> ah sweet, thanks
Oct 25 17:58:12 <tparkin> yep
Oct 25 18:00:17 <jaek_> hmm i don't get the name... why connectbot?
Oct 25 18:01:02 <tparkin> jaek_: ask in #connectbot probably
Oct 25 18:01:03 <umdk1d3> jaek_: at least its not qtpfsgui  :P
Oct 25 18:01:18 <spikebike> I'm unclear if it can handle ssh keys
Oct 25 18:01:29 <umdk1d3> spikebike: still work in progress
Oct 25 18:01:48 <spikebike> ah, saw the button
Oct 25 18:02:00 <spikebike> but it was greyed out, I thought it was my fault
Oct 25 18:02:20 <umdk1d3> AWESOME
Oct 25 18:02:32 <umdk1d3> weve got scripting now ^.^
Oct 25 18:02:39 <benley> oh?
Oct 25 18:02:40 <umdk1d3> so that it can "screen -dr" when you login or something
Oct 25 18:02:44 <benley> ah nice
Oct 25 18:04:52 <jaek_> hmm now that i have a ssh client... the only thing left is vpning in ;)
Oct 25 18:07:15 <Disconnect> jaek_: good luck. it'll require jailbreaking - vpns don't work so hot without root
Oct 25 18:07:45 <spikebike> oh, g1 protects root?
Oct 25 18:07:47 <jaek_> lol was just kidding, it would be sweet if sun ported their punchin client to android
Oct 25 18:08:30 <benley> dammit I need to get a hold of a regular retail phone so I can figure out what all these restrictions are
Oct 25 18:08:32 * Disconnect could use openvpn reall ybad
Oct 25 18:08:45 <benley> Disconnect: grab the source, start hacking it in :)
Oct 25 18:08:53 <Disconnect> benley: can't flash retail phones
Oct 25 18:09:09 <benley> Disconnect: yes, but I expect that if such a feature goes upstream it will eventually show up in retail devices
Oct 25 18:09:11 <Disconnect> (for fscks sake will someone stick that in the topic already?? its not like it doesn't come up about once an hour... :/ ..)
Oct 25 18:09:25 <benley> Disconnect: and I also expect that you'll be able to get a flashable phone sooner or later
Oct 25 18:09:29 <Disconnect> first google has to approve it. then tmob - and thats unlikely, they want to charge for vpn access..
Oct 25 18:09:42 <umdk1d3> Disconnect: seconded, it should be in topic
Oct 25 18:10:18 <jaek_> is there a repo or something for opensource free apps not in market?
Oct 25 18:10:21 <Disconnect> benley: and for the record i'm not annoyed about you asking, since its not actually posted anywhere :)
Oct 25 18:10:35 <Disconnect> jaek_: tons. andappstore.com slideme.com .. others. (google it..)
Oct 25 18:10:41 <benley> Disconnect: oh I know you can't flash retail phones
Oct 25 18:10:55 <loke> what sucks...
Oct 25 18:10:58 <loke> that
Oct 25 18:11:04 <benley> Disconnect: (well, you can actually, but only with firmware that's been signed with the appropriate key)
Oct 25 18:11:18 <Disconnect> and you can't even overwrite existing apps.. so the totally fucked up and broken email app is stuck until tmob bothers to fix it.
Oct 25 18:11:42 <benley> you could still put a different email app along side the existing one.
Oct 25 18:11:47 <benley> just change its namespaces around.
Oct 25 18:12:01 <loke> Disconnect: thanks for making sure that I don't ever get one of the tmobile phones then :-)
Oct 25 18:12:19 <Disconnect> yep. except its got basically no onboard storage for apps.. i've got hardly anything installed and the browser is filling it up all the time (20M cache.. so then i get a notification about out of space and an option to uninstall stuff..)
Oct 25 18:12:21 * loke goes back to waiting for a non-branded one to come out form HTC
Oct 25 18:12:34 <Disconnect> loke: its a disaster, it really is.
Oct 25 18:12:52 * benley wonders why he doesn't run into the disk space issue very often
Oct 25 18:12:53 <loke> Disconnect: it's a US phone company, I didn't expect anythign else really
Oct 25 18:12:56 * Disconnect filed something like 25 bugs yesterday, most of them of the "makes this app/function/phone useless" variaty
Oct 25 18:13:08 <Disconnect> benley: on a phone or on the emu?
Oct 25 18:13:12 <benley> Disconnect: phone
Oct 25 18:13:33 <benley> Disconnect: I've run out of space a few times, but each time I go and find that I have an app I'm not using that eats a couple of meg, so I remove it
Oct 25 18:13:37 <Disconnect> dunno. i've got a bunch of apps but most of them are under a meg. doing some image-heavy web browsing tho (dailystrips comic strips)
Oct 25 18:14:12 <benley> if the browser is breaking the whole OS by filling up the disk, that's a problem :-P
Oct 25 18:14:33 <Disconnect> yep. not 'breaking' but certainly 'causing notifications and warnings'...
Oct 25 18:14:44 <eggy> ^-~
Oct 25 18:14:54 <gdsx> Disconnect: note that the partition that the browser uses to cache things and the partition that apps are installed onto are separate
Oct 25 18:15:35 <gdsx> jham_: hey
Oct 25 18:15:37 <Disconnect> thats good.. but 'manage apps' shows 20M (sometimes more) of "browser data" that shrinks when i hit 'dump cache' .. adn the notifications stop
Oct 25 18:15:46 <jham_> gdsx: Hey
Oct 25 18:16:07 <benley> interesting
Oct 25 18:18:02 <gdsx> Disconnect: if you do `adb shell`, does `df` show anything useful for you?
Oct 25 18:18:08 <Disconnect> yah lemme get it real quick
Oct 25 18:18:45 <Disconnect> http://pastie.org/300464
Oct 25 18:19:19 <wastrel> ok i ported my number over to my g1
Oct 25 18:19:34 <Disconnect> cool
Oct 25 18:19:52 <Disconnect> its an ok phone. speaker feels weirdly placed to me (i know its mostly centered) but otherwise not bad.
Oct 25 18:21:10 * spikebike is pleased with the g1
Oct 25 18:21:21 <spikebike> I wanted an n800 with a cell connection
Oct 25 18:22:06 <spikebike> I got a nicer looking framework, better devel tools, and other fun stuff like an accelerometer, compass, etc.
Oct 25 18:22:14 <spikebike> oh and a keyboard
Oct 25 18:22:18 <gdsx> Disconnect: I'll talk to some folks.  I don't know why the browser would be storing stuff in /data, though
Oct 25 18:28:12 <mpardo> i have a question for those of you who own a g1
Oct 25 18:28:23 <mpardo> when a local call comes in does the area code show?
Oct 25 18:28:35 * spikebike tests
Oct 25 18:28:44 <benley> mpardo: think so, yes
Oct 25 18:28:48 <mpardo> k
Oct 25 18:28:52 <Disconnect> gdsx: maybe its not fixing it, but the notifications go away..
Oct 25 18:29:00 <benley> mpardo: callerID on gsm networks in the US always seems to include the area code
Oct 25 18:29:18 <spikebike> mpardo yup
Oct 25 18:29:23 <mpardo> ok cool
Oct 25 18:29:24 <spikebike> even includes the 1
Oct 25 18:29:32 <mpardo> ah nice
Oct 25 18:29:37 <benley> yeah - the number should always be call-back-able :)
Oct 25 18:30:23 <mpardo> i've tested at work with a colleagues g1 but his area code is not local so i wasn't sure
Oct 25 18:31:05 * spikebike is now sure
Oct 25 18:33:41 <nickname> hi, I want to buy a G1 but I cannot see BioWallet in the market
Oct 25 18:34:02 <nickname> any of you has found that application?
Oct 25 18:35:45 <wastrel> http://www.biowallet.net/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=8&Itemid=9
Oct 25 18:36:32 <mpardo> omfg i'm retarded... who was here when i asked about the toast message not showing when i did activity.finish()
Oct 25 18:37:51 <mpardo> qvark: the toast wasn't showing because i didn't tell it to... look at the code i posted and you'll see it's missing
Oct 25 18:38:19 <nickname> wastrel: ops! I checked their site looking for a "Download" section but I didn't notice this... I guess I need more coffee
Oct 25 18:39:38 <nickname> I thought the ADC finalist have received a G1 some weeks ago to do some testing
Oct 25 18:39:56 <Disconnect> you'd think so....
Oct 25 18:40:58 <nickname> that would explain why not all the ADC apps are in the market
Oct 25 18:43:03 <mmu_man> oh, crowded here :)
Oct 25 18:46:02 <mpardo> is there an Eclipse shortct key for collapse all?
Oct 25 18:48:49 <Earlobes> should I learn java before I learn Android?
Oct 25 18:48:59 <SanMehat> yes
Oct 25 18:49:02 <defconoi> java is android
Oct 25 18:50:57 <Earlobes> k thanks
Oct 25 18:53:08 <mpardo> what formatting can i apply to toast strings?
Oct 25 19:01:00 <spikebike> any news on the rumored RC28 g1 release?
Oct 25 19:05:26 <defconoi> where did u see this rumor
Oct 25 19:05:49 <tweakt> how do I reference my main activity from a broadcast receiver? I need to update the view based on received events
Oct 25 19:06:13 <spikebike> umm, dunno, just saw it mentioned that it was due about now
Oct 25 19:06:37 <defconoi> I wish I could manually update and install a ssh server on this thing with a freakn rootshell
Oct 25 19:06:55 <tweakt> oh wait, the Context supported in onReceive is my activity right? Should I just downcast to get at my internals?
Oct 25 19:07:40 <spikebike> supposedly all g1s will get it within the next 48 or so
Oct 25 19:07:44 <tweakt> or should do it all in code, with  registerReceiver ?
Oct 25 19:16:14 <ivantis> …
Oct 25 19:16:24 <ivantis> is this for the google android thing?
Oct 25 19:16:40 <jasta> yes
Oct 25 19:16:50 <ivantis> cool
Oct 25 19:17:05 <jasta> but this channel is generally developer oriented
Oct 25 19:17:07 <ivantis> infobot: info
Oct 25 19:17:20 <michaelnovakjr__> what up jasta
Oct 25 19:17:25 <michaelnovakjr__> how's the phone?
Oct 25 19:17:29 <jasta> not much, really sore from the gym :)
Oct 25 19:17:35 <ivantis> you could call me a developer
Oct 25 19:17:52 <michaelnovakjr__> jasta, liking the phone?
Oct 25 19:17:55 <jasta> michaelnovakjr__: good, i'm doing some experiments right now to test how to get a persistent keep-alive connection going even after the phone sleeps (for IMAP IDLE)
Oct 25 19:17:58 <cannedfish> eh this _network_ is developer oriented :)
Oct 25 19:18:11 <ivantis> freenode, yes
Oct 25 19:18:14 <michaelnovakjr__> jasta, i'm going to mess around with the Email app actually
Oct 25 19:18:28 <jasta> michaelnovakjr__: me too, i already am.  i've been reading the code for days now, and am ready to hack
Oct 25 19:18:42 <michaelnovakjr__> same here
Oct 25 19:18:47 <jasta> unfortunately, because of its design i will need to do some major changes just to get the code base prepared for my feature
Oct 25 19:19:02 <jasta> in particular, the MessagingController paradigm is all wrong for
Oct 25 19:19:02 <michaelnovakjr__> working on imap features?
Oct 25 19:19:05 <jasta> for IMAP IDLE.
Oct 25 19:19:24 <jasta> because the idea is that the service and activity cannot be separated into multiple processes.  they communicate over the same thread (not using IPC)
Oct 25 19:19:34 <michaelnovakjr__> hm
Oct 25 19:19:46 <jasta> so this must be changed in order to support IMAP IDLE, this way the background idling service can be separate from the activities
Oct 25 19:20:27 <spikebike> er isn't keeping the network alive contrary to the idea of sleeping?
Oct 25 19:21:37 <cliff> you can keep a socket open while keeping a PDP context closed
Oct 25 19:21:49 <cliff> as long as both sides know how to deal with it
Oct 25 19:21:53 <cliff> this is how exchange activesync works
Oct 25 19:22:32 <cliff> IMAP IDLE doesn't know directly how to deal with this
Oct 25 19:22:38 <defconoi> create an irc app
Oct 25 19:22:39 <cliff> you'd need a proxy server that can
Oct 25 19:22:48 <defconoi> ;)
Oct 25 19:22:48 <defconoi> gIRC
Oct 25 19:23:03 <michaelnovakjr__> i believe there already is one
Oct 25 19:23:09 <defconoi> really?
Oct 25 19:23:13 <michaelnovakjr__> i'm pretty sure
Oct 25 19:23:22 <michaelnovakjr__> your google skills must not be sharp :)
Oct 25 19:23:37 <michaelnovakjr__> check out anddev.org or helloandroid.com
Oct 25 19:23:40 <defconoi> http://code.google.com/p/next-irc/
Oct 25 19:23:41 <defconoi> found it
Oct 25 19:23:42 <michaelnovakjr__> they have an app list i believe
Oct 25 19:25:13 <spikebike> This project currently has no downloads.
Oct 25 19:25:16 <spikebike> booo
Oct 25 19:26:26 <wastrel> so i called to have my number ported to the G1, about an hour ago - but my g1 is still showing the old num. in the phone info
Oct 25 19:26:30 <defconoi> a root shell would make me more happy with andoid
Oct 25 19:26:34 <wastrel> should i reset the phone or call t-mob?
Oct 25 19:26:46 <ttuttle> wastrel: Call T-Mobile first.
Oct 25 19:26:49 <defconoi> it would be funny if it uses apt with repo's lol
Oct 25 19:27:08 <mmattice> wastrel: my phone didn't show the new number until after my old phone was disconnected
Oct 25 19:30:06 <Disconnect> ok i've never had a device that had anywhere -near- this much trouble with wifi :(
Oct 25 19:30:10 <wastrel> that's one vote for call and one for wait.  wait is less effort :]
Oct 25 19:30:12 <jasta> spikebike: there is a special way to keep a connection alive that the carriers support to do push e-mail and other things
Oct 25 19:30:48 <mmattice> wastrel: try calling something to see if tmo has switched it in their system
Oct 25 19:30:49 <wastrel> mmattice: will the number just change eventually?  or will i have to do something on the device?
Oct 25 19:31:18 <mmu_man> anyone checked for a possible port to the OpenMoko FreeRunner yet ?
Oct 25 19:31:22 <mmattice> I got an sms that welcomed me to tmo after it was changed and after that I looked and it was changed in the settings
Oct 25 19:31:34 <mmu_man> there is a qemu diff to emulate it partially
Oct 25 19:31:38 <wastrel> i got the sms but it hasn't changed in the settings
Oct 25 19:31:39 <Disconnect> mmu_man: its being worked on evidently. but you need a usb keyboard.
Oct 25 19:31:51 <Disconnect> wastrel: restart?
Oct 25 19:31:56 <mmu_man> Disconnect I don't have it anyway, just qemu :p
Oct 25 19:32:02 <wastrel> i've turned the phone off but haven't done a reset
Oct 25 19:32:07 <mmu_man> I'll be working on porting Haiku to it someday...
Oct 25 19:32:10 <mmattice> I actually got a couple of those messages
Oct 25 19:32:32 <mmu_man> Disconnect do you mean it's been started or not yet ?
Oct 25 19:35:12 <mpardo> how can i disable an item in a listview? or gray it out?
Oct 25 19:35:42 <Disconnect> ok the itunes remote is slick
Oct 25 19:36:03 * Disconnect wishes he wasn't struggling with simple layouts and interactions :( but there ya go..
Oct 25 19:36:15 <spikebike> jasta ah interesting, figured in the interest of power that in sleep mode you'd just send a close and then re-establish on wake up
Oct 25 19:36:24 <spikebike> I have to say the g1 multitasks well
Oct 25 19:36:54 <spikebike> I was using gtalk... sent a MMS... took a picture... sent a MMS, continues the gtalk
Oct 25 19:37:21 <spikebike> definitely multitasks (or gives the appearance of) better than anything else I've used
Oct 25 19:37:35 <Disconnect> it actually multitasks
Oct 25 19:37:39 <Disconnect> linux
Oct 25 19:38:34 <spikebike> well hard to tell between a good suspend/restore and multitask
Oct 25 19:39:04 <cannedfish> multitasking is a good suspend/restore :)
Oct 25 19:39:08 <spikebike> heh
Oct 25 19:39:24 <spikebike> well without top/ps it's hard to see if things are actually running and taking up ram
Oct 25 19:40:53 <spikebike> the nokia 800 for instance runs linux and doesn't do nearly as well
Oct 25 19:43:48 <spikebike> I'm kinda surprised I've not heard more about dalvik
Oct 25 19:43:57 <romainguy> spikebike: that's what made me drop my iPhone
Oct 25 19:44:12 <Disconnect> hold down home. last 6ish items.
Oct 25 19:44:17 <spikebike> yeah, everytime I thought of something cool to do I ended up wanting to run in the background
Oct 25 19:44:32 <mpardo> is there anyway to disable or gray out a listview item?
Oct 25 19:44:34 <Disconnect> with sdk you can run a shell over usb.
Oct 25 19:45:30 <spikebike> oh sweel, thanks disconnect
Oct 25 19:45:32 <spikebike> t
Oct 25 19:45:54 <romainguy> mpagano_: yes, look at the methods in the adapter
Oct 25 19:45:58 <Disconnect> with sdk ddms shows all -sorts- of good things about whats running inside the java vms
Oct 25 19:47:18 <Disconnect> ok time to get clean and go to the butcher. its a huge-steak kind of evening.
Oct 25 19:47:44 <spikebike> I wonder if any other languages will target dalvik
Oct 25 19:47:55 <spikebike> has anyone seen a dalvik vs anything else benchmark?
Oct 25 19:48:13 <romainguy> spikebike: you can't really compare without running the same OS/hardware
Oct 25 19:48:37 <spikebike> true
Oct 25 19:48:51 <romainguy> but
Oct 25 19:48:54 <romainguy> if you want good news:
Oct 25 19:48:55 * waldo_ is away: auto-away
Oct 25 19:48:57 <spikebike> or the same emulator
Oct 25 19:48:58 <romainguy> - Dalvik is interpreted
Oct 25 19:49:06 <romainguy> - 2D rendering is not hardware accelerated
Oct 25 19:49:14 <romainguy> - the Garbage Collector is very simple
Oct 25 19:49:23 <romainguy> so basically there are tons of things we can do to make apps even faster
Oct 25 19:49:27 <spikebike> wow, I assumed 2d used the bitblt hardware
Oct 25 19:49:32 <romainguy> well
Oct 25 19:49:32 <spikebike> it feels pretty good to me
Oct 25 19:49:40 <geist> that assumes bitblt exists
Oct 25 19:49:43 <romainguy> the windows compositing is hardware accelerated
Oct 25 19:49:43 <spikebike> n800 doesn't either, despite support on the cpu
Oct 25 19:49:56 <romainguy> but the drawing onto the windows is not
Oct 25 19:50:14 <geist> using the gpu gets a little hairy on power constrained devices
Oct 25 19:50:21 <spikebike> dunno
Oct 25 19:50:23 <geist> a lot of times you dont want to use it, even if it looks better
Oct 25 19:50:34 <geist> because spooling up all that silicon costs battery
Oct 25 19:50:34 <spikebike> bitblt should take less power using a gpu than the cpu
Oct 25 19:50:41 <spikebike> true
Oct 25 19:50:44 <geist> not necessarilly
Oct 25 19:50:54 <spikebike> depends how long you bitblt
Oct 25 19:51:02 <romainguy> geist: in this case it's more because the hardware is not easy to use for our 2d library
Oct 25 19:51:08 <geist> romainguy: yeah
Oct 25 19:51:23 <geist> but even if it was, it's not always a slam dunk in these things
Oct 25 19:51:33 <geist> it really depends on how good the gpu does it's own power management
Oct 25 19:51:39 <geist> and how fast it can get out of suspend
Oct 25 19:51:44 <spikebike> obviously the g1 cpu/gpu combination works pretty welll.... unfortunately this leads to laptop like utilization.... which leads to draining the battery pretty quick
Oct 25 19:52:13 <geist> and for folks like android they always will need the software fallback, and have it be good performance
Oct 25 19:52:15 <romainguy> the gpu is not used unless you use OpenGL basically
Oct 25 19:52:18 <Disconnect> spikebike: part of that is that the default battery calibration is junk on most units
Oct 25 19:52:25 <geist> since they can't design for any given piece of hardware
Oct 25 19:52:27 <spikebike> oh, interesting
Oct 25 19:52:38 <spikebike> is there a possible fix or just replace the hardware?
Oct 25 19:52:42 * Disconnect more than tripled his battery life by just training it twice (drain till it won't turn on, then charge 8+ hours continuous)
Oct 25 19:52:47 <Disconnect> just retrain it
Oct 25 19:52:54 <spikebike> ah, I'll try that
Oct 25 19:52:58 <romainguy> yeah the battery suck to indicate us the charge level
Oct 25 19:53:05 <Disconnect> also, if you are out of 3g areas turn off 3g
Oct 25 19:53:09 <spikebike> already did that
Oct 25 19:53:14 <Disconnect> romainguy: can i get that in english? :)
Oct 25 19:53:23 <geist> it probably has it's own coulomb counter on the battery microcontroller
Oct 25 19:53:25 <spikebike> although office mate didn't and watched his battery die pretty qucik
Oct 25 19:53:32 <geist> and those need calibration, yeah
Oct 25 19:53:34 <romainguy> Disconnect: the battery sucks at indicating its charge level
Oct 25 19:53:38 <Disconnect> ah. yah.
Oct 25 19:53:40 <spikebike> to be honest for most things the edge performance is pretty good (even youtube, streetview, and maps)
Oct 25 19:53:43 <Disconnect> standard problem these days tho
Oct 25 19:53:50 <spikebike> not sure I'd run 3g all the time even in a 3g area
Oct 25 19:53:50 <romainguy> there are hardware solutions
Oct 25 19:53:53 <romainguy> but they cost money
Oct 25 19:54:00 <Disconnect> yah well
Oct 25 19:54:02 <geist> hey, beats not having it at all. back in my day we had to guess the battery capacity based on voltage
Oct 25 19:54:09 <geist> and that suuuuucks on li-ions
Oct 25 19:54:20 <Disconnect> having a vaguely correct calibration is something most devices manage out of the box tho...
Oct 25 19:54:40 * Disconnect runs shazam and itunes remote, lets them fight it out
Oct 25 19:56:25 <DarkriftX> that would be a great program to have or even use that one location based program to turn off your 3g when you leave 3g ranges
Oct 25 19:56:44 <Disconnect> add it into locale
Oct 25 19:56:50 <DarkriftX> thats waht its called..
Oct 25 19:56:57 <DarkriftX> doesnt it support plugins?
Oct 25 19:57:03 <Disconnect> dunno
Oct 25 19:57:03 <p1mrx> well, I imagine someday everything will be 3G, and they'll turn off GSM like the US recently did with AMPS
Oct 25 19:57:13 <Disconnect> i'd hope so for as much as google paid out in prize money on it :)
Oct 25 19:57:19 <spikebike> yeah I talked to the locale folks
Oct 25 19:57:30 <spikebike> it really needs a if connected to this access point do X function
Oct 25 19:57:31 <DarkriftX> well the prize money hopefully will go to making it even better
Oct 25 19:57:40 <spikebike> i.e. turn off 3g when in my office and I can't get 3g
Oct 25 19:57:43 <Disconnect> spikebike: it needs more than 2 "x function" options :)
Oct 25 19:57:50 <spikebike> they sounded very ammendable
Oct 25 19:58:04 <spikebike> they sounded very ammenable
Oct 25 19:58:05 <Disconnect> like "change my message notifications on these accounts when i'm at work" (it already handles "turn my ringer to X volume @ work")
Oct 25 19:58:13 <Disconnect> ok bbl
Oct 25 19:58:31 <DarkriftX> or it should have groups of stuff
Oct 25 19:58:47 <spikebike> hey, does anyone know of a technical limitation of the hardware that would prevent UMA from working?
Oct 25 19:58:57 <DarkriftX> like have a home group, and 10 tasks inside it and when you go home it would execute that group
Oct 25 19:58:57 <spikebike> (with a software implementation)
Oct 25 20:08:26 <tweakt> "10-25 16:03:51.323: ERROR/AndroidRuntime(2936): java.lang.RuntimeException: Binary XML file line #2: You must supply a layout_width attribute."
Oct 25 20:08:44 <tweakt> Hmm, I have layout_width set... what's up?
Oct 25 20:08:57 <romainguy> looks like you don't ;)
Oct 25 20:10:36 <tweakt> I think I know what it is
Oct 25 20:11:01 <tweakt> I set a default namespace, instead of android:xxx for every attribute... is that a problem?
Oct 25 20:11:09 <tweakt> seems redundant
Oct 25 20:12:39 <tweakt> yep, that fixed one problem, now some other errors to figure out ;-)
Oct 25 20:14:15 <michaelnovakjr__> will the Email app run in the emulator?
Oct 25 20:14:34 <romainguy> yes
Oct 25 20:14:51 <michaelnovakjr__> excellent
Oct 25 20:16:56 <tweakt> ahh, it's working! sweet!
Oct 25 20:17:22 <tweakt> ugly, but working
Oct 25 20:21:46 <mpagano> if I buy a new memory card, do I have to reinstall all of my apps?
Oct 25 20:23:10 <gdsx> no
Oct 25 20:23:32 <spikebike> I wish you did actually
Oct 25 20:23:35 <jasta> mpagano: android installs all apps to internal storage, not the sd card.
Oct 25 20:23:40 <mpagano> jasonchen: sweet
Oct 25 20:23:48 <mpagano> jasta: nice, thanks
Oct 25 20:23:58 <mpagano> jasonchen: sorry, nm
Oct 25 20:24:14 <p1mrx> which also means that buying a new memory card won't let you install more apps
Oct 25 20:24:33 <spikebike> yes
Oct 25 20:24:35 <spikebike> yet
Oct 25 20:24:47 <tweakt> you could always copy all the data over to the new one on a PC anyway
Oct 25 20:24:50 <gdsx> jbq: bonjour
Oct 25 20:36:37 * waldo_ is back (gone 00:47:42)
Oct 25 20:37:54 <spikebike> oh speaking of which I need to buy 4 8GB cards
Oct 25 20:39:29 <jaek_> is there a DUN profile for the g1?
Oct 25 20:39:31 <outbri> What do you do with 4 cards?
Oct 25 20:41:39 <spikebike> put em in 4 g1s of course
Oct 25 20:41:51 <jaek_> sdptool records does not show DUN
Oct 25 20:41:56 <commonsguy> jaek_ : i don't think so
Oct 25 20:42:40 <jaek_> oh sweet, now i have to carry around my old phone too
Oct 25 20:43:13 <spikebike> bonus ;-)
Oct 25 20:43:17 <outbri> spikebike: can I have one? :P
Oct 25 20:43:34 <spikebike> sure, hand over $30 ;-)
Oct 25 20:43:51 <outbri> $30 for a g1 doesn't sound too bad :P
Oct 25 20:44:45 <spikebike> http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/25/technology/internet/25phone.html
Oct 25 20:44:54 <spikebike> Security Flaw Is Revealed in T-Mobile’s Google Phone
Oct 25 20:47:57 <outbri> By the same dude that found them in the macbook air
Oct 25 20:49:42 <spikebike> I'm kinda curious how tmo and google will handle jail breaking
Oct 25 20:50:15 <CompBrain> Can some else try downloading the eclipse plugin from https://dl-ssl.google.com/android/eclipse/
Oct 25 20:50:22 <CompBrain> I'm getting errors in eclipse 3.4
Oct 25 20:50:51 <tparkin> CompBrain: I also got errors trying to upgrade to sdk 1.0 using that link
Oct 25 20:51:05 <tparkin> so I gave up on eclipse, downloaded it manually and am using ant
Oct 25 20:55:06 <ivantis> does android come with perl installed?
Oct 25 20:55:14 <commonsguy> ivantis: no
Oct 25 20:55:19 <ivantis> lame
Oct 25 20:55:30 <tparkin> anyone here been working on jruby on android?  seen a few blogs about it..
Oct 25 20:55:30 <SanMehat> ivantis: port it
Oct 25 20:55:53 <ivantis> is there a perl port for android?
Oct 25 20:55:53 <FRITZ> puting my nose in forum... Huuu!!!! and the dance of shit started.. http://mobile.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/10/25/192217
Oct 25 20:55:59 <commonsguy> tparkin: AOT mode *might* work out of the box; JIT probably needs work for bytecode generation
Oct 25 20:56:32 <tparkin> commonsguy: thanks but I have no clue what you said, I'm just a ruby coder looking to code on the phone :)
Oct 25 20:56:58 <commonsguy> tparkin: sry -- AOT = Ahead-Of-Time compilation (creates Java classes out of Ruby code)
Oct 25 20:57:00 <tparkin> I've heard it doesnt work and has to be converted to dex and only seen one blog with some success
Oct 25 20:57:07 <ivantis> does android have stuff for C/C++ like stdout, stdin?
Oct 25 20:57:10 <commonsguy> JIT = just-in-time (runs Ruby scripts on the fly)
Oct 25 20:57:22 <tparkin> thanks for the clarification
Oct 25 20:57:36 <commonsguy> invantis: not really, since this isn't a PC
Oct 25 20:58:42 <spikebike> heh
Oct 25 20:58:57 <spikebike> jython would be cool
Oct 25 20:59:19 <spikebike> I wonder if dalvik will get a non-android port
Oct 25 21:00:22 <cannedfish> it runs on linux which is a portability layer by itself
Oct 25 21:00:49 <gdsx> ivantis: your question isn't very clear.  I will say that native apps should work, but are not supported right now (since the package format has no way to communicate what hardware the package will work with, and there's no good way to include different binaries for different hardware)
Oct 25 21:00:57 <mpardo> hey, I made a service and i start it manually. what's the best way to see if it's running?
Oct 25 21:02:23 <commonsguy> mpardo: ummmm...have it log something?
Oct 25 21:04:39 <mpardo> not sure what you mean. My app needs needs to display the service's activity state in a textview. How do i check to see if the service is active.
Oct 25 21:05:20 <commonsguy> same way you do any communication with a service: either IPC using AIDL or have the service broadcast intents that the activity picks up
Oct 25 21:06:04 <commonsguy> if it's all in one app, i think you can bypass that and used shared data, but i'm not a big fan of that
Oct 25 21:06:21 <mpardo> it is in one app
Oct 25 21:26:04 <mpardo> is there any type of text formatting that you can do for the string used int Toast.makeText() ?
Oct 25 21:36:06 <scootley> does the SDK work ok from both Vista 64-bit and Ubuntu 64-bit?
Oct 25 21:36:11 <After_Math> is it better for Android to know how to create Java Apps or Applets?
Oct 25 21:38:43 <commonsguy> After_Math: probably apps, but neither are exact matches
Oct 25 21:39:12 <After_Math> k thanks
Oct 25 22:30:03 <DarkriftX> welcome back languish
Oct 25 22:30:16 <DarkriftX> how goes day 4 of the droid trials?
Oct 25 22:30:30 <languish> hahah don't ask :)
Oct 25 22:30:52 <languish> no question QC failed to reject mine
Oct 25 22:30:58 <languish> but my wife's is just fine
Oct 25 22:31:15 <DarkriftX> ouch
Oct 25 22:31:24 <DarkriftX> take it in and tell them you want a non refurb
Oct 25 22:31:31 <DarkriftX> tmo is pretty good about that if its very new
Oct 25 22:31:34 <languish> already dealing with is
Oct 25 22:31:38 <DarkriftX> nice
Oct 25 22:31:38 <languish> *it
Oct 25 22:31:48 <DarkriftX> well, great time to tweak the hell out of it
Oct 25 22:31:53 <DarkriftX> take it to its knees
Oct 25 22:32:00 <languish> :)
Oct 25 22:32:10 <DarkriftX> my site is doing great as im sure you can see
Oct 25 22:33:03 <DarkriftX> I really want to get a g1 now
Oct 25 22:33:11 <languish> :)
Oct 25 22:33:14 <DarkriftX> all this watching ppl download stuff and test it is making me really jealous
Oct 25 22:33:25 <languish> haha
Oct 25 22:34:19 <languish> i just sent some people your way
Oct 25 22:34:35 <DarkriftX> there is this geeky girl at my work who is actually pretty hot.. she saw me on my site and asked about it and when i was explaining it to her she seemed to be getting off on it
Oct 25 22:34:48 <DarkriftX> "omg!! wow, I gotta get one!" and shivering
Oct 25 22:35:13 <DarkriftX> the power of a nerd phone!
Oct 25 22:35:21 <languish> My response would be inappropriate for this channel :/
Oct 25 22:35:36 <DarkriftX> mine too lol, i kept it to myself
Oct 25 22:35:41 <languish> :)
Oct 25 22:47:14 <jota-> hey whats the easiest way to implement a tree browsing view? like a multi level ExpandableListView ?
Oct 25 22:50:59 <tomgibara> I have a vanilla content provider that exposes a single table. I now want to expose 'meta-data' about that table (eg. number of rows, number of rows added today) via the provider. Is there an established paradigm for this?
Oct 25 22:55:19 <donomo> why does the mapView not show the zoom controls? http://pastie.org/300566
Oct 25 22:55:37 <jasta> does anyone have any specifics on how the phone actually falls asleep?
Oct 25 22:55:58 <jasta> i'm trying to implement an idling connection that persists after the cpu sleeps, but im getting unusual results
Oct 25 22:56:24 <jasta> obviously google sync does this, but of course google is unlikely to release those details :)
Oct 25 22:58:31 <jasta> i'm reading online that one typical strategy to prevent timeout at the carrier level is to just send a NOOP command every 10m or so, but then i'm wondering if the phone even sleeps in that amount of time
Oct 25 22:58:42 <geist> oh definitely
Oct 25 22:58:48 <geist> it'd get no where near the battery life if it didn't do that
Oct 25 22:59:08 <geist> i dont know the specifics of how android does it, but usually these kind of things you sleep as much as possible
Oct 25 22:59:31 <geist> like, a second after the last thing that happened, or even when the cpu idles
Oct 25 22:59:40 <geist> between context switches
Oct 25 22:59:45 <jasta> well in this case do we mean sleep as in the CPU suspends and the kernel just rests waiting to be woken up?  so you could conceivably just be waiting in your read() until somehow the radio wakes up the cpu and then you continue working just fine?
Oct 25 22:59:51 <tparkin> anyone have a fix for the "no repo at https://dl-ssl.google.com/android/eclipse/" error in eclipse?
Oct 25 22:59:56 <geist> yep
Oct 25 23:00:13 <geist> usually you tune your design to go to sleep as much as possible without clobbering responsiveness
Oct 25 23:00:22 <jasta> geist: right, so why then after like 20m or so does the TCP connection reset and my code doesn't get the opportunity to come back
Oct 25 23:00:27 <geist> given that usually it takes a certain amount of time to actually put the cpu to sleep and wake up
Oct 25 23:00:46 <geist> i would assume that sockets would stay open
Oct 25 23:00:47 <jasta> the code is just a loop to set up a new connection and idle on it
Oct 25 23:00:55 <geist> by 20m you mean minutes?
Oct 25 23:00:58 <Ramblurr> hm if i have an EditText and a Button in a RelativeLayout.. with the Button to theLeftOf the EditText.. how can I get the EditText to stretch sideways to fill the screen, without knocking the Button off the edge?
Oct 25 23:01:02 <jasta> it sets SO_KEEPALIVE, although i'm not seeing that the keepalive probes are coming
Oct 25 23:01:06 <jasta> geist: yes, minutes
Oct 25 23:01:07 <geist> that may be a cell thing, like it drops the data call after a certain amount of time
Oct 25 23:01:12 <tparkin> the fix is to "Add Site" with this url: "http://dl-ssl.google.com/android/eclipse/site.xml"
Oct 25 23:01:18 <Ramblurr> also, without hard wiring a pixel width
Oct 25 23:01:26 <jasta> geist: well it seems like my attempts to come back and make a new connection fail or something
Oct 25 23:01:27 <geist> i doubt it has anything to do with the actual host cpu going to sleep. that should probably be transparent
Oct 25 23:01:58 <jasta> right and thats what i'd expect actually
Oct 25 23:02:38 <geist> but i dunno the specifics of this. I dont work on android, i just work in these kinds of things
Oct 25 23:02:41 <jasta> so i wonder why this connection gets torn down after so many minutes and doesn't want to come back
Oct 25 23:03:00 <jasta> i think actually that SO_KEEPALIVE isn't tuned to work properly on Android
Oct 25 23:03:05 <geist> could be the connection gets torn down at the kernel level
Oct 25 23:03:11 <jasta> its default in the Linux kernel is like a 2h interval between probes
Oct 25 23:03:12 <geist> but it gets set back up again at a higher level
Oct 25 23:03:14 <jasta> which would be way too long for the network
Oct 25 23:03:26 <geist> so that using sockets at the kernel level doesn't autotrigger a new data call
Oct 25 23:03:36 <jasta> i'm gonna fire up wireshark on my PC side to see when keep alive probes come out
Oct 25 23:03:56 <geist> i'm sure the right android person would know it, you'll just have to find one
Oct 25 23:03:56 <jasta> geist: well perhaps, but my code is designed to reconnect, but what i see is that after so many minutes it just stops trying
Oct 25 23:04:09 <geist> yeah but your code is doing socket level stuff only, right?
Oct 25 23:04:15 <zanberdo_> I've just downloaded the android SDK for linux and plan to do some development using eclipse 3.4.  I'm relatively new to development under linux and would like a suggestion for where in my enviroment I ought to install the SDK
Oct 25 23:04:25 <jasta> yes, it's just a loop doing socket connection and implementing an echo reader
Oct 25 23:04:25 <geist> though i guess through the java layer... seems like it should trigger a data call if it didn't already have it
Oct 25 23:04:34 <mmu_man> hey geist
Oct 25 23:04:38 <mmu_man> world is small
Oct 25 23:04:39 <jasta> right, and it would i'd think
Oct 25 23:04:42 <geist> hey mmu_man
Oct 25 23:05:16 <jasta> geist: i'm gonna analyze with wireshark to get a better sense of exactly what the phones behaviour is
Oct 25 23:05:18 <geist> mmu_man: lots of Be folks here, via android...
Oct 25 23:05:20 <jasta> thanks for the help tho
Oct 25 23:05:22 <mmu_man> does android master relativistic timers yet ? ;)
Oct 25 23:05:23 <geist> sure
Oct 25 23:05:23 <zanberdo_> I'd thought I might install it to /opt, but as that's owned by root it does not appear to be the appropriate location.  I've got it handing off my home directory, but that seems somehow wrong.  Any suggestions?
Oct 25 23:05:32 <mmu_man> geist yes BGA told me
Oct 25 23:06:20 <geist> though being that it's the weekend, they're probably all hard at work
Oct 25 23:07:11 <shackan> BGA works on android too?
Oct 25 23:07:12 <jasta> geist: maybe its a sensible strategy to just send a probe every 10 minutes or so at my application layer
Oct 25 23:07:28 <geist> shackan: i dont think so, but he's at google
Oct 25 23:07:49 <jasta> geist: i have found in my tests that periodically sending data over the connection causes the phone to keep it active for much longer
Oct 25 23:07:56 <geist> yeah
Oct 25 23:08:03 <geist> though of course you pay for it
Oct 25 23:08:30 <geist> would be interesting to trace how the gmail thing works
Oct 25 23:08:42 <geist> assuming it does that all via tcp, and not some out of band notification
Oct 25 23:08:43 <jasta> of course, i'm just trying to find a strategy that works optimally, as i imagine gmail does.
Oct 25 23:08:59 <jasta> geist: i bet it's just all TCP.  microsoft's activesync, for instance, is all TCP.
Oct 25 23:09:13 <geist> pretty sure too, or you wouldn't be able to use it on non tmo networks
Oct 25 23:09:21 <jasta> what is likely happening here though is that T-Mobile has given them some helpful details about their network and such to optimize
Oct 25 23:09:39 <mmu_man> shackan no, he said he wanted to but he'd have to move as the whole team was held in secrecy at the same place
Oct 25 23:09:50 <mmu_man> (likely a creapy basement)
Oct 25 23:10:04 <geist> s/basement/dungeon
Oct 25 23:10:04 <jasta> geist: but i was hoping this was handled at the platform-level by just using TCP keepalive probes
Oct 25 23:10:43 <geist> guess you can also tell if it's heartbeating by sticking it next to your speaker
Oct 25 23:10:48 <geist> while on an edge network
Oct 25 23:11:17 <jasta> well, wireshark at the server is going to tell me if its doing keepalive probes as well
Oct 25 23:11:20 <geist> dont think mine does or i would have thrown it across the room
Oct 25 23:11:23 <jasta> although itll only show successful probes, i suppose
Oct 25 23:12:11 <mmu_man> TCP ?
Oct 25 23:12:26 <mmu_man> last time I checked activesync was some bastardized PPP
Oct 25 23:12:41 <jasta> i dont think so...
Oct 25 23:12:43 <mmu_man> but that was long ago with Jornada stuff
Oct 25 23:12:51 <geist> yeah, i think the owa stuff is new
Oct 25 23:12:55 <jasta> you might be thinking of the desktop activesync protocol
Oct 25 23:13:17 <mmu_man> WinCE... that had to be rebooted quite often :)
Oct 25 23:13:18 <jasta> exchange activesync is the protocol that the phone communicates with the exchange server using, and that is OWA and is just TCP based
Oct 25 23:13:41 <jasta> and it has keep alive support
Oct 25 23:13:43 <geist> yeah, and it seems to work pretty darn well actually. my crappy centro does a pretty good job syncing
Oct 25 23:13:50 <jasta> their keep alive is at the application layer tho
Oct 25 23:13:56 <jasta> im betting i have to do the same
Oct 25 23:13:59 <geist> yah
Oct 25 23:14:17 <jasta> which is fine really, since i'm implementing IMAP IDLE and they have NOOP for this reason
Oct 25 23:14:37 <f00f-> jasta what is IMAP IDLE really, just a long poll?
Oct 25 23:14:50 <jasta> f00f-: no, its not a poll at all
Oct 25 23:15:16 <jasta> you just select a mailbox and say IDLE.  the server will remain silent until a change is made to the selected mailbox, which it will then tell you about
Oct 25 23:15:38 <jasta> the client can periodically send NOOP commands during IDLE, which will do nothing but check that the server is still there
Oct 25 23:15:41 <f00f-> so IDLE won't return a numeric response until a change is made?
Oct 25 23:15:52 <f00f-> oh ok
Oct 25 23:15:58 <jasta> it will say absolutely nothing until a change is seen
Oct 25 23:16:09 <jasta> and of course so long as the client doesnt continue talking to it
Oct 25 23:16:26 <jasta> so it would look like
Oct 25 23:16:28 <jasta> SELECT "INBOX"
Oct 25 23:16:32 <jasta> * 4 EXISTS
Oct 25 23:16:38 <jasta> OK ...
Oct 25 23:16:40 <jasta> IDLE
Oct 25 23:16:43 <jasta> + idling
Oct 25 23:16:48 <jasta> [ time passes ]
Oct 25 23:16:49 <jasta> * 5 EXISTS
Oct 25 23:17:21 <f00f-> i assume IDLE is canceled anytime you decide to retreive headers or body of a msg
Oct 25 23:17:29 <ivantis> so, is android running on anything besides a phone?
Oct 25 23:17:41 <ivantis> not including the tester thing i mean
Oct 25 23:17:53 <jasta> f00f-: the client cancels idle by saying DONE
Oct 25 23:18:30 <f00f-> cool
Oct 25 23:18:47 <jasta> geist: hmm, just caught a RST from the phone...
Oct 25 23:18:53 <f00f-> very surprised that the built-in imap client doesn't have IDLE support
Oct 25 23:19:01 <jasta> f00f-: are you really? ;)
Oct 25 23:19:03 <donomo> ive seen the gmail app say i have (-1) new emails. :)
Oct 25 23:19:20 <f00f-> heh, not really i guess lol
Oct 25 23:19:28 <geist> the built in imap client doesn't even properly sync stuff back to my server for some reason
Oct 25 23:19:40 <geist> it's almost like it's just doing a fetch over imap
Oct 25 23:19:51 <mmu_man> lol
Oct 25 23:20:14 <geist> but i think others have said it works, so must be some compatibility with my server (courier imap)
Oct 25 23:20:23 <geist> guess i should file a bug...
Oct 25 23:21:19 <Dougie187> http://www.engadget.com/2008/10/25/dan-hesse-sez-android-not-yet-good-enough-for-sprint-brand/
Oct 25 23:21:21 <Dougie187> :(
Oct 25 23:21:40 <jasta> geist: oh interesting...i am doing a sleep between retries...
Oct 25 23:21:50 <jasta> and i think this sleep is sleeping much longer than i asked it to
Oct 25 23:23:25 * jasta experiments
Oct 25 23:24:21 <jasta> because as soon as i wake the phone back up by pushing buttons and stuff the sleep() breaks and my connection is retried as my logic expects
Oct 25 23:25:40 <ivantis> !ping
Oct 25 23:25:47 <ivantis> are there any bots here?
Oct 25 23:26:18 <Dougie187> i think ChanServ is a bot.
Oct 25 23:26:19 <Dougie187> but ionno
Oct 25 23:28:23 <geist> so it's not a real time sleep?
Oct 25 23:28:40 <geist> it's a sleep as long as it's on
Oct 25 23:29:02 <geist> that's a common thing too. thread level sleeps are frequently interrupted by cpu sleep
Oct 25 23:29:14 <geist> usually you have to schedule some sort of real time alarm if you want it to break a cpu sleep
Oct 25 23:29:29 <ivantis> @ping
Oct 25 23:29:32 <ivantis> #ping
Oct 25 23:29:38 <ivantis> $ping
Oct 25 23:29:42 <ivantis> i guess not
Oct 25 23:30:34 <jasta> geist: like what?  use a Handler or something?
Oct 25 23:30:49 <geist> no idea, i dont know the android api
Oct 25 23:31:04 <jasta> ill experiment...
Oct 25 23:31:12 <jasta> thanks for the help, i have a much better idea of how this should work now
Oct 25 23:31:42 <geist> take whatever i say with a grain of salt, i'm just thinking what i would do had i designed the android platform :)
Oct 25 23:33:09 <languish> hrm
Oct 25 23:33:14 <SanMehat> geist: hehehehe
Oct 25 23:33:36 <languish> I keep getting random com.android.phone crashes
Oct 25 23:33:37 <geist> ah good, real android people
Oct 25 23:33:40 <languish> *sigh*
Oct 25 23:38:04 <danfuzz> blort
Oct 25 23:39:11 <geist> it's teh fuzz
Oct 25 23:40:03 <danfuzz> it's teh geist
Oct 25 23:40:11 <danfuzz> what's shakin'?
Oct 25 23:40:19 <jasta> geist: yup, you're definitely right.  the issue is my sleep() is not waking up the CPU...
Oct 25 23:40:21 <ivantis> should i get a G1 phone?
Oct 25 23:40:23 <ivantis> should i?
Oct 25 23:40:27 <ivantis> i cant decide
Oct 25 23:40:43 * danfuzz likes his, fwiw
Oct 25 23:40:56 <danfuzz> <- biased
Oct 25 23:40:57 <tparkin> ivantis: you should
Oct 25 23:41:02 <geist> yeah but you're a member of the dalvik conspiracy
Oct 25 23:41:16 <tparkin> ivantis: I pre-ordered right away but was afraid it would suck after all the e-rants
Oct 25 23:41:20 <tparkin> ivantis: but it rocks my socks
Oct 25 23:41:26 <ivantis> i want it
Oct 25 23:42:11 <spikebike> works for me, depends on what you need and expect.
Oct 25 23:42:33 <ivantis> i think i want to write some software for it maybe
Oct 25 23:42:38 <ivantis> that would be so cool!
Oct 25 23:42:40 <ivantis> on my phone
Oct 25 23:43:17 <tparkin> yes, that's the biggest selling point imo
Oct 25 23:43:24 <spikebike> it's a pretty decent phone... even for non programmers/geeks
Oct 25 23:43:40 <spikebike> my wife likes it
Oct 25 23:43:42 <tomgibara> jasta: I think you'll need to use AlarmManager for that sort of thing
Oct 25 23:44:08 <jasta> tomgibara: probably.  i'm fiddling now...
Oct 25 23:44:10 <spikebike> (she has one)
Oct 25 23:44:52 <danfuzz> i still haven't done any *app* programming for it
Oct 25 23:44:55 <danfuzz> some day
Oct 25 23:46:05 <danfuzz> greetings, other-dan
Oct 25 23:46:34 <donomo> ivantis: the battery life is less than i expected, but the background tasks, always-on gtalk is freaking great.
Oct 25 23:46:53 <ivantis> then that settles it
Oct 25 23:46:56 <ivantis> im getting one
Oct 25 23:47:10 <ivantis> wait, how is the plan that they give you?
Oct 25 23:47:59 <DannyB> hello fuzzy dan
Oct 25 23:48:20 <spikebike> heh, yeah
Oct 25 23:48:45 <spikebike> I was chatting with another g1 used on gtalk
Oct 25 23:49:04 <tparkin> anyone have a fix for JUnit error in eclipse: Internal Error (classFileParser.cpp:2924), pid=5528, tid=1648
Oct 25 23:49:05 <donomo> ivantis: $30/mo for 300 mins. plus $25/mo for "unlimited" data
Oct 25 23:49:07 <spikebike> ended up sending a MMS, discussing a movie, and clicking on a url in gtalk to bring up a movie review
Oct 25 23:49:15 <shackan> danfuzz: how many googlers does it take to make a dalvik?
Oct 25 23:49:16 <ivantis> unlimited data?
Oct 25 23:49:18 <ivantis> whats that?
Oct 25 23:49:18 <spikebike> turned out the chat was 400 messages or so
Oct 25 23:49:24 <donomo> spikebike: i love using gtalk with other G1 users. no SMS charge.
Oct 25 23:49:25 <danfuzz> about six
Oct 25 23:49:32 <spikebike> iphone doesn't have MMS, nor anything always on except SMS
Oct 25 23:50:09 <donomo> spikebike: yeah thats huge(-ly bad) for the iphone
Oct 25 23:50:10 <spikebike> nor does it allow apps to run in the background (so you can't surf, take pictures, or send mms) during a chat
Oct 25 23:51:10 <donomo> spikebike: have you tried 'wikitude' in map mode? its a bit gimmicky but it looks like its image processing and putting dots where buildings are
Oct 25 23:51:16 <spikebike> I would have blown my entire sms budget last night if I had an iphone
Oct 25 23:51:29 <spikebike> no, I'll have to check it out
Oct 25 23:51:39 <tparkin> any JUnit users here?
Oct 25 23:51:58 <shackan> danfuzz: and how long?
Oct 25 23:53:13 <danfuzz> about three years
Oct 25 23:53:37 <danfuzz> the vm work started in late 2005
Oct 25 23:54:16 <spikebike> where is wikitude?
Oct 25 23:54:23 <spikebike> I search the app store for wiki and found zilch
Oct 25 23:57:34 <Ramblurr> why would my OnKeyListener be called twice when i push "enter" once?
Oct 25 23:58:30 <tparkin> does it get called for down and up?
Oct 26 00:11:09 <wastrel> ok my internet is working and my number is ported :]  love my new phone <3
Oct 26 00:11:26 <wastrel> father in law called me about the nytimes article he is concerned
Oct 26 00:11:42 <f00f-> heh
Oct 26 00:12:27 <Ramblurr> tparkin: that must be it..
Oct 26 00:13:16 <tparkin> cool
Oct 26 00:13:54 <unix_infidel> wastrel: which NYT article?
Oct 26 00:14:45 <tparkin> unix_infidel: The one about websites being able to exploit the phone
Oct 26 00:15:07 <tparkin> http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/25/technology/internet/25phone.html
Oct 26 00:15:10 <unix_infidel> webkit flaw?
Oct 26 00:15:11 <spikebike> 3:44 < spikebike>  http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/25/technology/internet/25phone.html
Oct 26 00:15:30 <tparkin> its really not a big deal imo
Oct 26 00:16:19 <f00f-> i'm sure there is some confirmation required to install the said app
Oct 26 00:17:40 <wastrel> i read the article on my g1
Oct 26 00:17:58 <f00f-> cute
Oct 26 00:18:06 <f00f-> i can't wait to get mine
Oct 26 00:18:08 <spikebike> no necessarily
Oct 26 00:18:52 <spikebike> not
Oct 26 00:19:45 <romainguy> that security flow is not a big deal actually
Oct 26 00:19:52 <romainguy> there's not much you can do with it
Oct 26 00:20:14 <unix_infidel> catching up on reading after sleep deprivation, and AndroidDevCamp is a welcome change of events ;-)
Oct 26 00:20:19 <tparkin> anyone using JUnit?
Oct 26 00:25:00 <mpardo> using GUnit
Oct 26 00:29:03 <ivantis> hey ops
Oct 26 00:29:11 <ivantis> jasonchen and SanMehat
Oct 26 00:29:12 <tmccrary> Is there a log4j appender for anroid?
Oct 26 00:29:16 <SanMehat> ?
Oct 26 00:29:28 <ivantis> would you mind if i brought my bot here?
Oct 26 00:29:40 <SanMehat> yes. please keep it outside :)
Oct 26 00:29:48 <ivantis> okya
Oct 26 00:29:52 <SanMehat> danke.
Oct 26 00:34:38 <pawalls> tsk tsk.. no gopher support in the android browser ;-)
Oct 26 00:39:49 <languish> ahh well, there went another factory reset
Oct 26 00:45:50 <Ramblurr> romainguy:  in my Activity i have a ListView with a custom adapter, how can i register to receive on ListItem clicks from it?
Oct 26 00:46:01 <Ramblurr> not it's not a ListActivity
Oct 26 00:46:06 <Ramblurr> it's not a *
Oct 26 00:48:04 <tmccrary> with android, if you have a file in /assets
Oct 26 00:48:16 <tmccrary> What is the recommended way to accessing the file?
Oct 26 00:48:36 <tmccrary> There are no class loaders and the only documentation I can find is about resources, which seems more specialized
Oct 26 00:49:42 <f00f-> tmccrary: getResources().getAssets().open("bleh")
Oct 26 00:49:49 <f00f-> you can't load classes
Oct 26 00:50:28 <tmccrary> so in that case, you are assumed to be in the root of assets right?
Oct 26 00:50:34 <f00f-> yep
Oct 26 00:50:40 <tmccrary> ok thanks
Oct 26 00:56:54 <tmccrary> Is there anyway to get a File object or FileInputStream or something with the files in assets?
Oct 26 00:57:04 <tmccrary> It would simplify things a lot
Oct 26 00:58:15 <f00f-> just get the inputstream
Oct 26 00:58:39 <umdk1d3> tmccrary: res/raw things arent really ever files
Oct 26 00:58:50 <umdk1d3> afiak they are read from inside the still-zipped apk
Oct 26 00:59:00 <tmccrary> ah
Oct 26 00:59:26 <jasta> i hope they are at least unzipped :\
Oct 26 00:59:26 <tmccrary> it just sucks having to rewrite a bunch of code because multiple things are incompatible with the Java standard
Oct 26 00:59:38 <umdk1d3> jasta: they are unzipped thorugh the stream
Oct 26 00:59:45 <umdk1d3> but i dont think they ever hit the disk
Oct 26 00:59:45 <jasta> argh that is lame
Oct 26 00:59:55 <spikebike> try swiching to obj c ;-)
Oct 26 01:00:00 <jasta> umdk1d3: where do you think the files are stored? :)
Oct 26 01:00:07 <umdk1d3> im basing this on issues i had reading large (>1mb) res/raw objects
Oct 26 01:00:23 <umdk1d3> it was an APK-related error, which led me to believe it was still streaming it out of the APK
Oct 26 01:01:44 * jt436 has loaded larger than 1mb files from res/raw without any issues
Oct 26 01:01:50 <jt436> what kind of issues?
Oct 26 01:05:20 <umdk1d3> i woulld need to try again, but it was some constant error showing up in logcat
Oct 26 01:05:27 <umdk1d3> i thought it might have even been smaller than 1mb
Oct 26 01:05:29 <Ramblurr> romainguy: Ah, figured it out.. nvm
Oct 26 01:06:33 <tmccrary> spikebike: I've done enough iPhone development to not ever want to do that again
Oct 26 01:06:43 <tmccrary> And it isn't objc's fault ;)
Oct 26 01:07:03 <spikebike> heh
Oct 26 01:08:28 <spikebike> the NDA seemed to kill a ton of howtos, conferences, and books... just insane
Oct 26 01:08:43 <spikebike> glad google figured out that being nice to developers is a good thing
Oct 26 01:09:26 <unix_infidel> spikebike: just got from AndroidDevCamp where a guy has about 60 apps in the backlog for the AppStore.
Oct 26 01:09:32 <Dougie187> im sad about the sprint news....
Oct 26 01:09:33 <unix_infidel> (for the iPhone)
Oct 26 01:09:47 <Dougie187> though i don't know how accurate it is.
Oct 26 01:10:24 <unix_infidel> so that's thousands in development costs down the drain of even some of those dont make it into the store.
Oct 26 01:10:43 <tmccrary> Dougie187: whats that?
Oct 26 01:10:45 <Dougie187> http://www.engadget.com/2008/10/25/dan-hesse-sez-android-not-yet-good-enough-for-sprint-brand/
Oct 26 01:10:48 <Dougie187> :(
Oct 26 01:10:56 <Dougie187> unix_infidel: you were at AndroidDevCamp?
Oct 26 01:11:06 <unix_infidel> Dougie187: yp.
Oct 26 01:11:10 <tmccrary> LOL
Oct 26 01:11:10 <Dougie187> how was it?
Oct 26 01:11:22 <spikebike> sprint news?
Oct 26 01:11:27 <tmccrary> I just switched from Sprint to T-Mobile
Oct 26 01:11:34 <spikebike> oh sorry
Oct 26 01:11:41 <tmccrary> Sprint is already going bankrupt
Oct 26 01:11:43 <spikebike> that soudns like standard PR
Oct 26 01:11:46 <Dougie187> sprint is "supposed" to have an android phone out by the end of the year.
Oct 26 01:11:54 <Dougie187> but ionno with that news.
Oct 26 01:11:56 <spikebike> every business not in any market says that market isn't ready yet
Oct 26 01:12:05 <unix_infidel> very cool.  Google sent us some "Androids."
Oct 26 01:12:06 <unix_infidel> :-P
Oct 26 01:12:09 <spikebike> like microsoft claiming they don't need a internet friendly product ;-)
Oct 26 01:12:15 <Dougie187> unix_infidel: some Androids?
Oct 26 01:12:18 <spikebike> or apple not having a netbook
Oct 26 01:12:32 <tmccrary> what do you mean, they have the iPhone
Oct 26 01:12:35 <tmccrary> ;)
Oct 26 01:13:08 <fignuts> hi
Oct 26 01:13:15 <Dougie187> hello fignuts
Oct 26 01:13:22 <unix_infidel> http://www.biggu.com/2008/10/24/stuffed-android-anyone-thanks-google/
Oct 26 01:13:31 <fignuts> is there a way to install android on my windows mobile pda?
Oct 26 01:13:35 <Dougie187> Oh nice.
Oct 26 01:13:38 <Dougie187> thats pretty sweet
Oct 26 01:13:42 <fignuts> or is this basically for phoens?
Oct 26 01:13:49 <fignuts> phones
Oct 26 01:13:51 <Dougie187> fignuts: not yet. you can play with it and try to get it to work somehow.
Oct 26 01:14:12 <Dougie187> unix_infidel: did you learn anything new?
Oct 26 01:14:19 <fignuts> well what i don't get, is windows mobile loads windows from the rom, so would it run as an application?
Oct 26 01:14:28 <unix_infidel> Dougie187: looking at ActivityGroups right now, akshually :-P
Oct 26 01:14:44 <Dougie187> unix_infidel: sounds pretty cool. Do you have an app out yet?
Oct 26 01:14:55 <spikebike> fignuts search youtube for android on <pdaname>
Oct 26 01:15:00 <fignuts> ok thanks
Oct 26 01:15:01 <unix_infidel> Dougie187: nope, I probably wont until next year.
Oct 26 01:15:17 <jt436> unix_infidel:  so you have a little green furry friend now?
Oct 26 01:15:21 <jt436> ;P
Oct 26 01:15:33 <Dougie187> fignuts: most of those are probably not going to be actually android running... its probably going to be old things where it was just the SDK running on some system like windows mobile.
Oct 26 01:16:03 <fignuts> kinda figured
Oct 26 01:16:09 <fignuts> thanx
Oct 26 01:16:19 <unix_infidel> Going to setup a site for some satellite AndroidDevCamps to get started and get some sponsorship.
Oct 26 01:16:44 <Dougie187> fignuts: afaik, android is not running on anything except the G1 right now, but i know some people are working on getting it to run on other phones/MIDs/Systems.
Oct 26 01:16:46 <languish> wait..
Oct 26 01:16:57 <languish> android doesn't save the browser bookmarks in the cloud?
Oct 26 01:16:59 <Dougie187> unix_infidel: was the DevCamp your thing?
Oct 26 01:17:00 <languish> o.O
Oct 26 01:17:17 <Dougie187> languish: did you try saving to google bookmarks?
Oct 26 01:17:28 <kRutOn> I think Sprint is nervous about the Google wanting to turn mobile phone providers into commidity providers
Oct 26 01:17:39 <languish> Dougie187, i used menu, bookmarks
Oct 26 01:17:59 <Dougie187> kRutOn: but what about previous reports of sprint releasing the phone by the end of the year?
Oct 26 01:18:04 <unix_infidel> I agree there, bookmarks could've been done a bit better.  reorganizing, reordering, etc.
Oct 26 01:18:17 <kRutOn> Dougie187: See http://www.techcrunch.com/2008/09/25/googles-end-run-around-the-wireless-carriers/
Oct 26 01:18:23 <DarkriftX> i think the g1 was released in google style
Oct 26 01:18:26 <DarkriftX> as a very workable beta
Oct 26 01:18:26 <Dougie187> languish: i don't have one of the phones... so i don't know what that does.. but you can try saving to google.com/bookmarks
Oct 26 01:18:34 <DarkriftX> so im sure everything will only get better
Oct 26 01:19:26 <fignuts> hmm... looks like it will run on a blackberry?
Oct 26 01:19:34 <languish> the two of you need to get phones :?
Oct 26 01:19:47 <mpardo> i need to display a message untill i close it procedurally, but i don't want it to interfere with the background (like a Toast message) any suggestions?
Oct 26 01:19:59 <kRutOn> Dougie187: /win 5
Oct 26 01:19:59 <languish> fignuts, it'll likely run wherever you can get linux running
Oct 26 01:20:04 <umdk1d3> kRutOn: oh?
Oct 26 01:20:09 <languish> which is just about everywere eventually
Oct 26 01:20:15 <umdk1d3> oops
Oct 26 01:20:19 <kRutOn> Dougie187: er, sorry, I meant to say: they also complain about Android changing too much for them to test effectively
Oct 26 01:20:20 <mpardo> the problem with toast is that it closes after the duration
Oct 26 01:20:23 <mpardo> i need to keep it open
Oct 26 01:21:20 <unix_infidel> mpardo: that's what the notification pane is for.
Oct 26 01:21:49 <tmccrary> wow, the android sdk just crashed eclipse is a way I've never seen before
Oct 26 01:21:51 <mpardo> i know... but i need to display some text. the notification slides away after a few seconds
Oct 26 01:21:53 <tmccrary> it was pretty spectacular
Oct 26 01:22:23 <Dougie187> tmccrary: maybe don't use eclipse? :)
Oct 26 01:22:31 <tmccrary> nah, eclipse rocks
Oct 26 01:22:53 <unix_infidel> who was it that was working on Maven?
Oct 26 01:23:15 <Dougie187> i know jasta uses maven.
Oct 26 01:24:32 <tmccrary> yes! the NES lives :)
Oct 26 01:26:18 <Laz> NES??
Oct 26 01:26:33 <ivantis> the NES
Oct 26 01:26:36 <DarkriftX> nes on android?
Oct 26 01:26:40 <DarkriftX> nesdroid!
Oct 26 01:26:41 <tmccrary> yup
Oct 26 01:26:41 <ivantis> nintendo entertainment system
Oct 26 01:26:45 <Laz> WHERE!!!
Oct 26 01:26:46 <ivantis> i loved that thing
Oct 26 01:26:48 <DarkriftX> someone needs to name it that
Oct 26 01:26:52 <DarkriftX> NESDroid
Oct 26 01:26:55 <ivantis> but mine is broken
Oct 26 01:26:57 <tmccrary> you're not supposed to, its against the license
Oct 26 01:27:00 <ivantis> :,(
Oct 26 01:27:19 <DarkriftX> nintendo is stupid
Oct 26 01:27:31 <DarkriftX> they should sell the roms on their site for like $1 each and allow emulation
Oct 26 01:27:39 <ivantis> …
Oct 26 01:27:43 <ivantis> that is a great idea
Oct 26 01:27:52 <tmccrary> yeah, but they like to control the platform
Oct 26 01:27:54 <ivantis> i have a friend who used to work at nintendo
Oct 26 01:28:00 <Laz> As of 2008-07-14 17:56, this project is no longer under active development.
Oct 26 01:28:02 <DarkriftX> right now they lose
Oct 26 01:28:13 <DarkriftX> because ppl will pirate the games
Oct 26 01:29:03 <tmccrary> the funny thing is, they considering piracy even if you own the original
Oct 26 01:29:08 <tmccrary> err
Oct 26 01:29:12 <tmccrary> *they consider it piracy
Oct 26 01:29:23 <tmccrary> http://www.nintendo.com/corp/legal.jsp
Oct 26 01:29:31 <tmccrary> http://www.nintendo.com/corp/legal.jsp#download_rom
Oct 26 01:30:13 <tmccrary> which is crazy, I'd love to see that get tested in court
Oct 26 01:30:56 <ivantis> im downloading the android SDK for linux right now
Oct 26 01:31:01 <ivantis> that works on ubuntu right?
Oct 26 01:31:18 <f00f-> yeah
Oct 26 01:31:25 <ivantis> gud
Oct 26 01:31:25 * f00f- is building it
Oct 26 01:31:37 <ivantis> it comes with the app-preview thing?
Oct 26 01:31:44 <f00f-> ?
Oct 26 01:31:48 * waldo_ is away: auto-away
Oct 26 01:31:53 <ivantis> that thingy
Oct 26 01:32:00 <Laz> lol the emulator
Oct 26 01:32:03 <ivantis> yes
Oct 26 01:32:04 <f00f-> wtf
Oct 26 01:32:09 <Laz> the app thingy :P
Oct 26 01:32:11 <ivantis> emulator, thats the word i was looking for
Oct 26 01:32:44 <ivantis> they should not consider it piracy if you own the original that you bought from them
Oct 26 01:33:09 <ivantis> i own all the games i have on MAME and other emulators, i just like them for computer keys and using cheats
Oct 26 01:33:25 <Laz> I guess they only want you to own one copy
Oct 26 01:33:47 <Laz> so that if you loose it you have to buy another :P
Oct 26 01:33:51 <ivantis> I guess they can suck my balls! They can't make me do anything
Oct 26 01:34:13 <ivantis> them and their lawyers, what a bunch of jerks
Oct 26 01:34:25 <Dougie187> do you guys know of any lawsuits from them about roms?
Oct 26 01:34:37 <ivantis> well, i guess their not all bad, i once wrote a letter to nintendo and i got a really nice reply
Oct 26 01:36:22 <ivantis> my gawd this SDK is taking its time
Oct 26 01:36:27 <ivantis> only 58%
Oct 26 01:36:32 <Dougie187> downloading?
Oct 26 01:36:36 <ivantis> yea
Oct 26 01:37:03 <ivantis> 64
Oct 26 01:37:04 <ivantis> 65
Oct 26 01:37:11 <ivantis> 66!
Oct 26 01:37:41 * waldo_ is back (gone 00:05:53)
Oct 26 01:38:11 <ivantis> hey, is this name very original? ivantis?
Oct 26 01:38:20 <ivantis> someone already took it on YouTube
Oct 26 01:38:24 <ivantis> and on Gmail!
Oct 26 01:38:32 <ivantis> jerk
Oct 26 01:42:13 <DarkriftX> lol
Oct 26 01:42:20 <wastrel> anyone seen the bug in the gmail app when you attach photos and send a message and a copy of the message stays in the drafts folder?
Oct 26 01:45:10 <ivantis> how do i compile the linux sdk?
Oct 26 01:45:13 <ivantis> call me an idiot
Oct 26 01:45:44 <Dougie187> you don't
Oct 26 01:45:49 <Dougie187> it's precompiled.
Oct 26 01:46:04 <Dougie187> you just go into /tools and run emulator
Oct 26 01:46:59 <ivantis> kay
Oct 26 01:49:02 <Ramblurr> anyone else noticing insanely slow parsing speeds with javax.xml.parsers.DocumentBuilder ?
Oct 26 01:50:25 <ivantis> no
Oct 26 01:53:31 <Dougie187> ivantis: have you done anything with javax.xml.parsers.DocumentBuilder?
Oct 26 01:53:37 <ivantis> no
Oct 26 01:53:44 <ivantis> i just downloaded the sdk
Oct 26 01:53:46 <Ramblurr> heh
Oct 26 01:54:05 <Dougie187> ok, you might add that into your information though, because otherwise he might think something is wrong with his implementation.
Oct 26 01:54:05 <ivantis> so, what should i start with?
Oct 26 01:54:08 <Dougie187> :/
Oct 26 01:54:14 <ivantis> im a noob
Oct 26 01:54:16 <ivantis> at coding
Oct 26 01:54:25 <Dougie187> do you know anything with coding?
Oct 26 01:54:32 <Dougie187> any language?
Oct 26 01:54:37 <ivantis> Perl
Oct 26 01:54:40 <ivantis> php
Oct 26 01:54:42 <ivantis> C++
Oct 26 01:54:52 <Dougie187> do you know c++ well?
Oct 26 01:55:00 <ivantis> not great
Oct 26 01:55:08 <ivantis> but okay
Oct 26 01:55:27 <Dougie187> http://code.google.com/android/intro/hello-android.html
Oct 26 01:55:42 <Dougie187> that site can help with with most of your questions.
Oct 26 01:55:58 <ivantis> should i download eclipse?
Oct 26 01:56:03 <Dougie187> up to you.
Oct 26 01:56:11 <ivantis> im gonna
Oct 26 01:56:13 <Dougie187> if you want to code using eclipse then yes. if not don't worry about it.
Oct 26 01:57:03 <ivantis> i will
Oct 26 01:57:05 <jasta> sigh, i miss a lot of text messages because of Android's much too timid notification sounds
Oct 26 01:57:06 <ivantis> it looks nice
Oct 26 01:57:20 <Dougie187> jasta: can't you beef them up at all?
Oct 26 01:57:35 <jasta> seemingly not.  the configuration for notifications is very limited
Oct 26 01:57:42 <Dougie187> thats too bad.
Oct 26 01:57:44 <jasta> what i'd prefer is the noise to repeat every 10 minutes or so until i finally answer it
Oct 26 01:57:47 <jasta> and be loud as hell
Oct 26 01:57:53 <Dougie187> thats one of the things lacking on most phones from what ive seen...
Oct 26 01:58:11 <Dougie187> that could be a useful feature, but could be irritating if it was the only thing.
Oct 26 01:58:22 <ivantis> apt-get install eclipse?
Oct 26 01:58:27 <ivantis> im on ubuntu 8.04
Oct 26 01:58:42 <Ramblurr> ivantis:  download eclipse manually
Oct 26 01:58:47 <ivantis> why?
Oct 26 01:58:47 <Dougie187> ivantis: i don't think the version of eclipse supports the android plugin.
Oct 26 01:58:53 <ivantis> what?
Oct 26 01:58:56 <ivantis> lame
Oct 26 01:58:56 <Ramblurr> the version of eclipse in the *buntu repos dont' work with the Android plugin
Oct 26 01:58:58 <Dougie187> *the version of eclipse in the repos.
Oct 26 01:59:06 <ivantis> ubuntu is so bad about updating things
Oct 26 01:59:15 <ivantis> glob2 is at a really old version
Oct 26 01:59:16 <Dougie187> better than some other distros.
Oct 26 01:59:17 <Dougie187> try centos.
Oct 26 01:59:26 <ivantis> much like armagetronad
Oct 26 02:00:38 <agotenshi> soo is this an active channel?
Oct 26 02:00:50 <Dougie187> if you count 222 people active?
Oct 26 02:01:04 <agotenshi> Well I mean, just cause they are in it, doesn't mean they wanna talk.
Oct 26 02:01:22 <Dougie187> weekends are probably not the best time to get help from this channel, but possibly
Oct 26 02:01:39 <ivantis> but weekends are when i dont go to school
Oct 26 02:01:48 <ivantis> i hate weekdays
Oct 26 02:01:49 <Dougie187> eh, im out. see ya later.
Oct 26 02:01:58 <ivantis> talk to me
Oct 26 02:02:03 <ivantis> i am on 24/7
Oct 26 02:02:20 <ivantis> literally
Oct 26 02:02:35 <agotenshi> I hope to find a nice home here, when I find some time.
Oct 26 02:02:41 * waldo_ is away: auto-away
Oct 26 02:02:43 <agotenshi> Soooo...  I just got my G1, on the 22nd
Oct 26 02:02:50 <agotenshi> and of course wanna know all about stuff
Oct 26 02:02:55 <ivantis> i want my G1 soon
Oct 26 02:03:00 <ivantis> i need one
Oct 26 02:03:10 <agotenshi> And I had the question asked of me, does the G1 support multi-touch
Oct 26 02:03:23 <agotenshi> I didn't find a deffinative other than, not right now
Oct 26 02:03:28 <agotenshi> Yes, you need a G1
Oct 26 02:03:35 <ivantis> need
Oct 26 02:03:37 <ivantis> not want, need
Oct 26 02:03:46 <agotenshi> soo, has there been much investigation in to this whole multi-touch capability thing?
Oct 26 02:04:00 <ivantis> idk
Oct 26 02:04:12 <f00f-> what's the big deal with multitouch?
Oct 26 02:04:15 <agotenshi> for someone on here 24/7 doesn't sound like you listen much... (^_^)
Oct 26 02:04:21 <jasta> is AlarmManager the only way to wake up the CPU?
Oct 26 02:04:24 <agotenshi> people wanna be able to pinch in and out on the browser
Oct 26 02:04:33 <f00f-> i though tthey can already do that
Oct 26 02:04:36 <agotenshi> if anything, need something better than the zoom buttons, they are horrible
Oct 26 02:04:39 <ivantis> not me looking at the screen 24/7, im logged in 24/7
Oct 26 02:04:46 <agotenshi> no, not on the G1, it doesnt pinch
Oct 26 02:05:12 <vip> is there an IRC client already for android ?
Oct 26 02:05:19 <agotenshi> I'm logged in 24/7 too a couple of channels, I only pop in when someone says my name and I'm around
Oct 26 02:05:27 <agotenshi> I believe soo
Oct 26 02:05:31 <ivantis> there needs to be one
Oct 26 02:05:44 <agotenshi> Pretty sure one of these apps I will be checking out later, claimed to have an IRC client in it
Oct 26 02:05:49 <agotenshi> a multiprotocol chat thing
Oct 26 02:06:00 <umdk1d3> does anyone have a link to tmobiles data TOS handy?
Oct 26 02:06:06 <vip> still havent got my G1 yet ... didnt preorder because i wanted a white one ... wont be available ... till after thanksgiving
Oct 26 02:06:06 <ivantis> i wrote an irc client in perl once
Oct 26 02:06:11 <ivantis> but it sucked
Oct 26 02:06:19 <agotenshi> Soo anyway
Oct 26 02:06:27 <agotenshi> Im sitting in my car thinking about this multitouch thing
Oct 26 02:06:35 <agotenshi> and I thought about how pthe finger reader must work
Oct 26 02:06:39 <ivantis> aaand?
Oct 26 02:06:59 <outbri> f00f-: multi-touch? because it's awesome. for somethings at least. it could be viewed as useless, but it is fun.
Oct 26 02:07:05 <agotenshi> if you stick a little finger on it, it must get the outer edges of touch, and calculate the average as the cursor position
Oct 26 02:07:22 <outbri> zooming is about the only thing I do with it
Oct 26 02:07:30 <agotenshi> now I hadnt even looked at the sdk at this point
Oct 26 02:08:02 <agotenshi> so I figured, at worst case scenario the api simply gives the coordinates to the touch postion
Oct 26 02:08:11 <f00f-> jasta: i think you can post an intent into the future i think?
Oct 26 02:08:17 <f00f-> jasta: or maybe that is part of AlarmManager
Oct 26 02:08:20 <outbri> umdk1d3: http://www.t-mobile.com/Templates/Popup.aspx?PAsset=Ftr_Ftr_TermsAndConditions&print=true that?
Oct 26 02:08:28 <agotenshi> I thought, it might be useful, and perhaps the devs thought it might be useful to reveal the accuracy of this coordinate
Oct 26 02:08:35 <ivantis> eclipse 3.2
Oct 26 02:08:45 <ivantis> does that one support the android SDK plugin?
Oct 26 02:09:01 <agotenshi> soo, if I touched with two fingers on opposites of the screen, it would probabl show some fairly low accuracy...
Oct 26 02:09:25 <agotenshi> if you could measure the decrease in accuracy, you could pretty much measure a multi-touch
Oct 26 02:09:29 <DarkriftX> almost no multitouch features require accuracy
Oct 26 02:09:34 <DarkriftX> most just require movement
Oct 26 02:09:40 <umdk1d3> outbri: awesome thx  :)
Oct 26 02:09:44 <agotenshi> yea, but it doesnt litterally give multiple coordinates
Oct 26 02:09:46 <umdk1d3> looks like ssh tunnels should be safe
Oct 26 02:09:52 <DarkriftX> 2 touches moving apart, 2 moving together etc
Oct 26 02:09:53 <agotenshi> so that is certainly not a real multi touch
Oct 26 02:10:21 <agotenshi> but with accuracy measurements plus the coordinate position and some callibration, you should be able to glean the actual finger points
Oct 26 02:11:21 <agotenshi> there is at lease one function on the MotionEvent class that has some promise for this
Oct 26 02:11:30 <agotenshi> getSize()
Oct 26 02:11:39 <agotenshi> this will return the size of the touch area
Oct 26 02:11:44 <agotenshi> well, thats what it says anyway
Oct 26 02:11:49 <agotenshi> or, implies
Oct 26 02:12:07 <agotenshi> if thats really what it does, then two fingers on the screen would have a large getSize, and one finger, a small one.
Oct 26 02:12:15 <agotenshi> in this, one could certainly program a pinch
Oct 26 02:13:47 <DarkriftX> well write a multitouch dmo
Oct 26 02:13:49 <DarkriftX> demo*
Oct 26 02:13:54 <DarkriftX> see if it works at all
Oct 26 02:14:06 <agotenshi> maybe I will
Oct 26 02:14:09 <agotenshi> I kinda wanna
Oct 26 02:15:31 <DarkriftX> will be interesting to see what you come up with
Oct 26 02:17:30 <jcanfield_> Is there a G1 user channel?
Oct 26 02:17:50 <ivantis> #G1
Oct 26 02:17:59 <jcanfield_> k..will check it out.
Oct 26 02:18:27 <jcanfield_> umm...ghost town.
Oct 26 02:23:02 <DarkriftX> this is basically it
Oct 26 02:23:08 <DarkriftX> android IS the g1 for now lol
Oct 26 02:28:22 <ivantis> well, im lingering in #G1
Oct 26 02:28:29 <ivantis> maybe some other people will join
Oct 26 02:28:33 <ivantis> and linger with me
Oct 26 02:28:36 <DarkriftX> lol
Oct 26 02:28:45 <DarkriftX> ppl have tried that a few time the last 4 weeks
Oct 26 02:28:47 <DarkriftX> nobody stays
Oct 26 02:28:51 <DarkriftX> not long anyways
Oct 26 02:28:56 <ivantis> and jcanfield_ and my bot
Oct 26 02:29:22 <ivantis> maybe someone should register it
Oct 26 02:29:24 <jcanfield_> what about #android-users?  Might prove to be more stable over time.
Oct 26 02:29:34 <DarkriftX> freenode has rules about registering a channel
Oct 26 02:29:39 <ivantis> yes
Oct 26 02:29:48 <ivantis> i have registered... 2
Oct 26 02:30:01 <DarkriftX> well you can try it
Oct 26 02:30:12 <ivantis> someone from google should register it
Oct 26 02:30:14 <ivantis> not me
Oct 26 02:30:20 <ivantis> i dont want any legal trouble
Oct 26 02:30:28 <DarkriftX> dont think they want another channel to have to deal with
Oct 26 02:30:42 <ivantis> i didnt have my hands in this
Oct 26 02:31:04 * ttuttle registers.
Oct 26 02:31:11 <ttuttle> If anyone from Google wants it, lemme know.
Oct 26 02:31:24 <ivantis> youre registering #G1?
Oct 26 02:31:33 <ivantis> come there and ill op you
Oct 26 02:31:35 <ttuttle> Nah, #android-users.
Oct 26 02:32:01 * ttuttle joins #G1 too.
Oct 26 02:32:15 <DarkriftX> wow, already forking
Oct 26 02:32:25 <jcanfield_> ha
Oct 26 02:32:38 * ttuttle registers.
Oct 26 02:32:39 * DarkriftX joins #android-owners and #android-fanboys
Oct 26 02:34:34 <DarkriftX> ahh, found one I like, #android-downloads
Oct 26 02:35:52 <jcanfield_> well, considering there is an #android-dev, I guess this IS the users channel.
Oct 26 02:36:16 <jasta> ttuttle: hey, feel like spilling the beans for me?  i want to know how google's services maintain their persistent connections :)
Oct 26 02:36:46 <jasta> my design involves using the alarmmanager to wake up the device every few minutes to send a keepalive packet at the application layer
Oct 26 02:36:52 <jasta> but this feels excessively heavy
Oct 26 02:37:08 <ttuttle> jasta: Hmm, I'm not sure if this is conf or not.
Oct 26 02:37:24 <jasta> im sure that it is, but just tell me ;)
Oct 26 02:37:27 <ttuttle> jasta: Um, no?
Oct 26 02:37:36 <jasta> i'm joking, of course.
Oct 26 02:37:52 <ttuttle> jasta: I'll check if it's in the source or not.
Oct 26 02:38:02 <jasta> i have thought of a devious way to learn about this behaviour tho.  i can implement IMAP IDLE somewhat suboptimally and wait for a googler to go "oh, here let me tweak that for you." :)
Oct 26 02:38:11 <ttuttle> jasta: Heh.
Oct 26 02:38:33 <ttuttle> jasta: What happens if you simply don't send a keepalive?
Oct 26 02:38:50 <jasta> what i've gathered from a day of experimentation is that the CPU is woken up when the cellular radio is busy, and then my read() call responds
Oct 26 02:39:04 <ttuttle> jasta: Okay, so you can "tickle" the device by sending it data, right?
Oct 26 02:39:08 * jcanfield_ wonders if anyone has produced the mencoder line to output the best video to the G1 yet?
Oct 26 02:39:13 <jasta> but wait/sleep/etc do not wake up the CPU so that i can send periodic keepalives.  if i do not send keepalives, the carrier resets the connection every 10 minutes or so
Oct 26 02:39:15 <ttuttle> jcanfield_: I've tried with ffmpeg.
Oct 26 02:39:16 <gdsx> ttuttle: consider the phones to be behind a huge NAT (I don't actually know how accurate that is)
Oct 26 02:39:21 <ttuttle> gdsx: Yeah.
Oct 26 02:39:27 <jcanfield_> ttuttle, and your results?
Oct 26 02:39:29 <ttuttle> gdsx: So you likely need an open TCP (maybe UDP?) connection.
Oct 26 02:39:46 <jasta> ttuttle: yeah, i can, except that IMAP IDLE doesn't work this way.  IMAP IDLE lets the client tickle the server every now and then, but the opposite does not happen
Oct 26 02:39:49 <gdsx> ttuttle: yes, but you have to send data of some sort or the NAT will close the connection
Oct 26 02:39:55 <gdsx> ttuttle: this is one reason why I hate NAT
Oct 26 02:39:56 <ttuttle> gdsx: Okay.
Oct 26 02:40:03 <ttuttle> jasta: Try reverse-engineering Gmail?
Oct 26 02:40:11 <jasta> using what?
Oct 26 02:40:18 <ttuttle> jasta: tcpdump and a wifi network.
Oct 26 02:40:18 <jasta> the apk i dont have?
Oct 26 02:40:28 <ttuttle> jasta: No, just run it, let the device fall asleep, then send yourself an email.
Oct 26 02:40:32 <jasta> ttuttle: thats not the issue
Oct 26 02:40:36 <ttuttle> jasta: What is?
Oct 26 02:40:46 <jasta> the issue is how to efficiently wake the CPU to keepalive.
Oct 26 02:40:52 <ttuttle> jasta: Hmm
Oct 26 02:40:55 <ttuttle> jasta: Lemme try it.
Oct 26 02:40:59 <jasta> im certain if i sniffed traffic i would discover that the gmail system was performing keepalives
Oct 26 02:41:06 <jasta> but that doesnt tell me HOW they are ;)
Oct 26 02:41:29 <jasta> as i said, right now i have it working by using an alarm manager to wake up the cpu every few minutes to send a keepalive
Oct 26 02:41:33 <jasta> from the client
Oct 26 02:41:36 <jasta> this keeps the connection up
Oct 26 02:41:37 <ttuttle> jasta: That's not bad.
Oct 26 02:41:54 <ttuttle> jasta: I'm honestly not sure how they get around that.
Oct 26 02:42:07 <jasta> but as i said, it feels heavy and suboptimal.  i was merely curious to learn the specific method used by google
Oct 26 02:42:42 <jasta> ttuttle: also, you cant sniff this to determine the behaviour as the wi-fi radio shuts off soon after the screen.  the cellular radio does not
Oct 26 02:42:55 <ttuttle> jasta: Oh yeah, I wrote the code to shut off wifi ;-)
Oct 26 02:43:00 <jasta> and i lack the tools, and understanding necessary to sniff the cellular traffic :)
Oct 26 02:43:12 <DarkriftX> lol
Oct 26 02:43:21 <DarkriftX> easy, just build yoru own cell tower
Oct 26 02:43:25 * DarkriftX hides
Oct 26 02:43:25 <ttuttle> jasta: I'm not sure if the interface is public, but there's a WifiLock that works like a WakeLock but holds the wifi open.
Oct 26 02:43:59 <jasta> ttuttle: regardless, i know they are sending keepalives ;)
Oct 26 02:44:06 <jasta> all i could learn by that method is how often
Oct 26 02:44:08 <jasta> not how
Oct 26 02:44:08 <gdsx> can you not just turn sync off, turn "keep screen on while plugged in" on, and wait an hour?
Oct 26 02:44:25 <jasta> gdsx: hmm?
Oct 26 02:44:28 <gdsx> (while sniffing on WIFI, that is)
Oct 26 02:44:53 <ttuttle> gdsx: Yeah, that should short-circuit the disable-WiFi-on-idle, which works on the screen on/off intents.
Oct 26 02:44:56 <jasta> gdsx: not sure i'm following you.  what information would that reveal?
Oct 26 02:45:10 <ttuttle> gdsx: He's trying to figure out how they wake up, not what they send.
Oct 26 02:45:30 <gdsx> aah
Oct 26 02:45:34 <jasta> yeah :)
Oct 26 02:46:07 <jasta> AlarmManager is the _only_ mechanism i know of that can do this.  just curious if there's some smarter approach than firing off intents every few minutes with that thing to send data over the socket
Oct 26 02:46:45 <gdsx> jasta: I don't know.  every few minutes shouldn't be necessary
Oct 26 02:46:55 <ttuttle> gdsx: Depends on the NAT.
Oct 26 02:46:58 <jasta> gdsx: it is.  the carrier shuts off a connection after 10 minutes of idling.
Oct 26 02:47:02 <jasta> ive been testing it all day :)
Oct 26 02:47:02 <ttuttle> gdsx: If it's sucky NAT, it may time out in 30 seconds.
Oct 26 02:50:17 <wastrel> anyone else on this gmail app bug?
Oct 26 02:52:18 <tmccrary> how about the "Edge doesn't work at all" bug
Oct 26 02:52:26 <ttuttle> tmccrary: worksforme
Oct 26 02:52:26 <tmccrary> I can't wait for 3G! :)
Oct 26 02:52:44 <tmccrary> I guess it could just be michigan
Oct 26 02:53:56 <tmccrary> The sad thing is that Edge doesn't work in Troy, Michigan
Oct 26 02:54:05 <tmccrary> which is the business center of Michigan
Oct 26 02:55:39 <languish> what could I be missing if the g1's not mounting under ubuntu?
Oct 26 02:55:44 <jasta> gdsx: do you know if the git tree builds an android.jar?
Oct 26 02:55:55 <languish> I have the use for usb storage enabled
Oct 26 02:55:59 <jasta> the Email app is referencing android.text.util.Regex which is not in the android.jar i have for 1.0r1
Oct 26 02:56:07 <ttuttle> languish: Check dmesg to see if it's recognized?
Oct 26 02:56:14 <languish> will do
Oct 26 02:56:48 <wastrel> it Just Works on my ubuntu @ tork
Oct 26 02:56:53 <wastrel> s/tork/work/
Oct 26 02:56:53 <infobot> wastrel meant: it Just Works on my ubuntu @ work
Oct 26 02:57:11 <DarkriftX> whoa
Oct 26 02:57:13 <DarkriftX> smart bot
Oct 26 02:57:14 <languish> lawl
Oct 26 02:57:30 <ttuttle> Eh, it's just rexegen.
Oct 26 02:57:32 <DarkriftX> s/smart/nice/
Oct 26 02:57:32 <infobot> DarkriftX meant: nice bot
Oct 26 02:57:35 <DarkriftX> lol
Oct 26 02:57:39 <DarkriftX> yeah, but still
Oct 26 02:57:52 <DarkriftX> the fact that it keeps track and corrects you
Oct 26 02:58:00 <DarkriftX> interesting what ppl write these days
Oct 26 02:59:45 <tmccrary> tranble bolbas and a tin tear drop also
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Sun Oct 26 02:59:57 2008