**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Oct 27 02:59:57 2008 Oct 27 03:00:00 wow, I assumed the processor would be a little weaker Oct 27 03:00:08 wtf did they go with that processor? Oct 27 03:00:44 lol, what the hell Oct 27 03:00:50 jasta: w00t, my trackadapter works the same as simpleadapter did before, now to make it load images :) Oct 27 03:00:58 MID* Oct 27 03:01:16 romainguy: hehe, i just caught a bug where text/plain e-mails show up as "null" in the Email app Oct 27 03:01:19 *fixing* Oct 27 03:01:47 thats really great i saw this bug happen while i have a dev environment set up for this particular app hehe Oct 27 03:03:37 hehe Oct 27 03:03:39 sqlite> select html_content, text_content from messages where subject = 'me so horny'; Oct 27 03:03:42 |null Oct 27 03:03:57 well this sucks alot Oct 27 03:04:09 my G1 will no longer install applications from the web, even with unknown sources enabled Oct 27 03:04:20 uh oh. why/ Oct 27 03:04:21 no e-book reader for me :( Oct 27 03:04:34 tmccrary: does adb install still work? Oct 27 03:04:48 haven't tried it yet Oct 27 03:09:50 5v5 mid garena pmme Oct 27 03:11:43 Ch0p_: err... Oct 27 03:11:49 sorry Oct 27 03:11:56 didn't realize amsg would hit all networks on xchat Oct 27 03:12:10 was trying for quakenet only Oct 27 03:12:12 :( Oct 27 03:12:22 aah, np :o) Oct 27 03:14:26 how can one adjust the default fontsize Oct 27 03:15:48 vol Oct 27 03:15:58 in connectbot? Oct 27 03:18:48 DannyB, where do I recognize your name from? Oct 27 03:19:32 d03boy: everywhere Oct 27 03:19:39 or, at least, that's how it was for me :o) Oct 27 03:19:50 haha Oct 27 03:20:00 sounds about right, yeah. Oct 27 03:23:53 30 minutes till marketplace opens up Oct 27 03:24:02 marketplace? Oct 27 03:24:21 30 min you say Oct 27 03:25:59 http://store.androidcommunity.com/content/accessories/9-57--550.htm Does this mean that the answer to the question: "Does the G1 / Android let me use a Bluetooth GPS as a location provider?" is "yes"? Or is that store just throwing that title on there? Oct 27 03:26:04 anyone know how to extract apk files from the market? Oct 27 03:26:51 DarkriftX by "extract" do you mean install? Oct 27 03:26:59 no Oct 27 03:27:04 youmean pull out the contents? Oct 27 03:27:11 i mean to download without installing Oct 27 03:27:36 actually, now that i think about it, there is no reason to Oct 27 03:28:01 you could probably go to the developer site and just download it from there Oct 27 03:28:31 lots of apps in the market arent on dev sites Oct 27 03:28:33 RyeBrye, I may be wrong, but from what I saw, they just threw G1 on a bunch of shit Oct 27 03:28:38 ive found tha tmost developers do not even have a site Oct 27 03:29:16 languish - that was my thought too... Although I think I saw somewhere that Android DID support the Bluetooth Serial Port Profile Oct 27 03:29:35 namely: http://blogs.zdnet.com/Burnette/?p=590 Oct 27 03:30:01 But supporting the serial port profile, and having something that will read and parse the NMEA out to make the Bluetooth GPS a location provider are two different things Oct 27 03:30:09 where would i start looking to get an icon up in the status bar? i want to indicate when a background-process/Service is active Oct 27 03:30:34 NotificationManager Oct 27 03:30:43 NMEA is simple to parse Oct 27 03:30:47 jasta: thx Oct 27 03:31:22 Although... I suppose if the serial port profile is supported, and I can access that in the normal app land, I suppose I could just write my own location provider thing that would deal with it Oct 27 03:33:40 Hmm... I'll have to look into the LocationProvider thing some more - but is the algorithm that applications use to get locations basically "find me the best location out of the location providers" - and they just pick the one with the lowest EPE? Oct 27 03:34:33 With all the applications that will be springing up that will just implicitly trust whatever the Location Provider returns - I could see a lot of pretty funny 'FalseLocationProvider' service applications :) Oct 27 03:35:00 i.e for those 'friend finder' applications - just turn on a fake location provider and set it to "stalker mode" and just tell it to basically echo back a certain person's location :) Oct 27 03:35:27 or a "pretend I am hardcore" mode that you would turn on and it would slowly show you climbing up Everest or K2 or something... Oct 27 03:35:58 Ahh... the joys of lying to software about where you are, and then other software believing you Oct 27 03:36:35 RyeBrye, just gen an answer about the bt serial from gdsx, romainguy, or one of the other google peeps that contribute here Oct 27 03:36:39 gen/get Oct 27 03:37:00 Yeah, I'll ask again tomorrow when they are around Oct 27 03:37:03 :) Oct 27 03:38:15 but the idea of a completely fake location provider to F* with any applications that just implicitly trust your location sounds cool to me :) I know some people are using some similar things for testing their apps in the emulator - but this would be more fully featured and specifically tailored to lying to your friends or anyone who listens about your location Oct 27 03:38:56 god android is sexy, finally get to use it on my dash Oct 27 03:39:06 penguinz is the man Oct 27 03:39:22 but no phone though Oct 27 03:39:31 booting with haret? Oct 27 03:40:01 a gold star to whoever ports it to the strtrk Oct 27 03:40:05 *whomever Oct 27 03:40:31 uss enterprise runs on Android Oct 27 03:40:32 :| Oct 27 03:40:44 skynet too Oct 27 03:40:47 :\ Oct 27 03:41:21 ya no phone because we havent got gsm drivers yet Oct 27 03:41:26 but thats next Oct 27 03:42:09 well audio first of course Oct 27 03:42:43 eventually we will get it flashed to the rom is it can actually replace wm Oct 27 03:42:45 Android on the dash? Oct 27 03:43:14 yes android on the the dash, isnt it great Oct 27 03:43:26 I hated the Dash - but maybe it was just Windows Moblows I hated Oct 27 03:43:39 marketplace is open :) Oct 27 03:43:56 link Oct 27 03:44:10 well it is a slow proc Oct 27 03:44:21 but android is pretty quick on it Oct 27 03:45:27 i cant link im on my phone but if you goto xda forums then goto excalibur goto my linux on excalibur ** now with android** thread Oct 27 03:45:43 For applications that you choose to sell in Android Market, the transaction fee is equivalent to 30% of the application price. For example, if you sell your application at a price of $10.00, the fee will be $3.00, and you will receive $7.00 in payment. Oct 27 03:46:05 i thought the market was a one time $25 fee Oct 27 03:46:14 well then, we're gonna need to sell for at least $300 per to make the numbers work Oct 27 03:46:19 didn't realize they were doing the same thing as apple Oct 27 03:46:37 yeah, that's lame that it got changed Oct 27 03:46:50 sounds like its time to route around THAT damage Oct 27 03:47:10 just write open source free apps :) Oct 27 03:47:20 or an open source, free market Oct 27 03:47:26 "Bazaar" Oct 27 03:47:26 :D Oct 27 03:47:36 tmccrary - I like your thinking Oct 27 03:48:01 Do like they did on the iPhone -- Port apt, make a pretty apt frontend Oct 27 03:48:20 that would probably be a lot more work Oct 27 03:48:22 or a marketplace that has a 10% fee on it and no kill switch... and then get it hosted on the marketplace :) Oct 27 03:48:40 foss is good Oct 27 03:48:42 yeah, I wonder how long it would take google and/or t-mobile to try and blacklist that app Oct 27 03:48:47 hey, All Apps are Created Equal, right? Oct 27 03:48:50 even the market? Oct 27 03:49:00 unless they change their mind, which has happened a few times already Oct 27 03:49:06 tmcrary - if they did, they'd be crucified by their own press Oct 27 03:49:08 how do I define the GPS location in the SDK? Oct 27 03:49:20 xorl - look at location providers Oct 27 03:49:53 xorl - this might answer your question: http://androidforums.com/showthread.php?p=781 but it also might not since your question didn't really make much sense Oct 27 03:50:06 here is the link for dash on excalibur who ever wanted it http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=435934&page=9 Oct 27 03:50:07 i mean, i have it pulling the GPS provider. But how do I define my coord Oct 27 03:50:17 oops thats the last page oh well Oct 27 03:50:18 so that when I run in the emulator it pulls it up Oct 27 03:51:35 xorl: this might answer your question http://mylifewithandroid.blogspot.com/2008/02/location-providers-climb-triglav-with.html Oct 27 03:51:52 that guy talks about how to make a fake location provider that pumps location data to the emulator Oct 27 03:52:58 ah Oct 27 03:52:58 thats an old article Oct 27 03:53:03 I'd love a fake location provider app to choose what gps info location based apps on my G1 report Oct 27 03:53:03 that is exactly what I need heh Oct 27 03:53:33 "yes honey, I'm at work, not the bar, check my location on the gps dear" Oct 27 03:53:34 languish - I want to write one of those :) Oct 27 03:53:53 :) Oct 27 03:53:58 languish - one of the things i was thinking about would be either "replay mode" where you just pick a previous day and make it go thorugh your previous tracks Oct 27 03:54:10 well do it, just don't charge me you bastard Oct 27 03:54:12 :P Oct 27 03:54:13 or "stalker mode" where it links up with a friendfinder app and always makes it look like you are 30 seconds behind them :) Oct 27 03:54:22 yes :) Oct 27 03:54:23 I wouldn't charge for that one Oct 27 03:54:48 but in the demo version I would make it so you were in my living room once every 10 minutes! ;) ( j / k ) Oct 27 03:55:01 blink mode.. "now you see me, now you don't, now I'm here, now I'm there" Oct 27 03:55:16 yeah :) Oct 27 03:55:28 remember to include elevation Oct 27 03:55:43 wow RyeBrye that sounds liek a great idea lol Oct 27 03:56:00 I think it's probably pretty easy - you just make it a location provider and find a way to make it always a higher priority than any other built-in one Oct 27 03:56:19 "No, I'm on the 17th floor, not the 8th" "hey look, I climbed mt everest! what? when am I coming back to work? NEVER!!! MUAHHAHA... see you in 5 minutes..." Oct 27 03:56:39 who has apps on the android market? Oct 27 03:56:42 or "Hop around mode" where you have it hop between two locations on opposite coats of the US every few seconds Oct 27 03:56:57 just to be a total asshole in any kind of friend-finder app Oct 27 03:57:14 because I'm SURE some app would be dumb enough to just scroll or zoom to get certain people in Oct 27 03:57:40 ... you could be like that guy who constantly signs in and out of his IM service just to make your chat application make annoying noises Oct 27 03:57:44 oh nice, there ARE new apps in the market Oct 27 03:57:47 jasta: got it to work--thanks! (the only thing I need to do now is debug my threading class) Oct 27 03:58:15 how about "serial killer mode" where you connect with soemone and your position appears to get closer and closer to them so it looks like you are in their house Oct 27 03:58:31 haha Oct 27 03:59:47 DarkriftX - Even better.... as part of that "Serial killer mode" you have it start to send MMS with pictures it grabs from Panoramio or something and say something like "This is the last thing oyu will ever see!" Oct 27 04:00:01 http://code.google.com/android/reference/ddms.html#emulator-control heh. Oct 27 04:00:05 DarkriftX - or Adulterer mode... Where you pick your friend and it waits for them to leave for work and then it moves you to their house :) Oct 27 04:00:21 And changes your status to "I'm in Ur house bangin ur wife' Oct 27 04:01:21 Just imagine... a single application that can single-handedly remove any credibility from all location-based games, location-based friend-finders, and location-based social networking crap before those things even take off the ground! :) Oct 27 04:01:46 Although it would be a shame to kill the very market of applications you want so desperately to take off so you can fool with it Oct 27 04:03:32 Another one could be "Left my phone on in the airplane mode" where it will spit out data that matches a current flight so you can text your friends and stay "I'm such a rool braker! look were I am d00d!" Oct 27 04:03:40 RyeBrye: seriously... I think people will soon learn that location-based stuff can be manipulated Oct 27 04:03:54 Yeah, I know :) Oct 27 04:03:59 just like no one expects Caller-ID to be "truthful" either Oct 27 04:04:06 Well... careful when you say 'no one' Oct 27 04:04:08 they used to, until peple learned Oct 27 04:04:20 No technical person, no Oct 27 04:04:31 but probably most consumers just blindly trust Caller-ID Oct 27 04:04:49 RyeBrye: well, it's not seen as a big problem for caller-id, so I doubt it'll be a big problem for location stuff Oct 27 04:04:51 like everyone who has their voicemail set up to not ask for a password when they dial in from their cell number Oct 27 04:04:58 loke: true Oct 27 04:06:12 once I get an android phone, the first thing I will do is to create a spam-filter (unles one actually exists?) for SMS messages... Oct 27 04:06:32 loke - if you are getting SMS Spam - you should report them to your provider. Oct 27 04:06:39 here, all people spamming SMS (and email, it seems) have to put as the first characters in the message Oct 27 04:06:39 loke: you get SMS spam? Oct 27 04:06:40 loke - SMS is HEAVILY regulated Oct 27 04:07:03 all I want to do is to make sure the SMS signal doesn't go off when such a message is received. It's possible using the androig API's, right? Oct 27 04:07:23 yes, lots of people send SMS advertisements Oct 27 04:07:30 I get a few every day Oct 27 04:07:32 loke - at least in the US - the carriers are nazis about who gets to send messages on their network... and they heavily police the SMS - and require mandatory stop words - just SMS reply back with "STOP" and you shuould always be removed from their lists Oct 27 04:07:39 where the hell did the 'geo' command go? Oct 27 04:07:50 is there a ScrollView for horizontal scrolling? Oct 27 04:07:53 xorl: that sounds lke a song lyric Oct 27 04:08:05 RyeBrye: I'm sure I can get the telco to stop them... but I want to manage it on the phone Oct 27 04:08:18 RyeBrye: well, you're in the US where the telcos are nazis :-) Oct 27 04:08:20 http://code.google.com/android/toolbox/apis/lbs.html documented here, but it doesn't exist in the tools dir Oct 27 04:09:45 T-mobile finally printed a shipping label out for my G1 on Friday - but UPS hasn't gotten it yet :( Oct 27 04:09:51 I guess mine will come on Thursday Oct 27 04:10:01 when is yours supposed to be delivered Oct 27 04:10:04 (3-day select, probably not shipping out until Monday) Oct 27 04:10:19 xorl: No clue. T-mobile has never told me anything about expected date. Oct 27 04:10:36 I ordered mine on the 22nd when I realized that the stores near me weren't going to sell them Oct 27 04:10:54 same here Oct 27 04:10:58 I got mine the next day Oct 27 04:11:04 :( Oct 27 04:11:06 but I paid 12 bucks for overnight shipping Oct 27 04:11:07 of all the apps to go up, lolcat builder Oct 27 04:11:08 :| Oct 27 04:11:22 I also ordered the brown. I guesstimated it would be the least popular Oct 27 04:11:27 thus least likely to be low on stock Oct 27 04:11:33 Yes, I think you are correct about that :) Oct 27 04:11:39 Isn't it "bronze" :) Oct 27 04:11:46 yeah, its not bad all though Oct 27 04:11:51 looks black in most situations Oct 27 04:11:51 I wonder where they ship from Oct 27 04:11:57 let me look Oct 27 04:11:58 do they have 1 warehouse? Oct 27 04:12:09 is market up? Oct 27 04:12:16 Hmm.. is there a dynamic way to pick the key? Can the app tell what key it was signed with? Oct 27 04:12:16 can i view the market on my browser Oct 27 04:12:56 languish: of all the apps to go up, lolcat builder << what's wrong wi that? Oct 27 04:13:16 I can haz lolcats? Oct 27 04:13:19 DALLAS/FT. WORTH A/P, TX,  US 10/22/2008 9:48 P.M. DEPARTURE Oct 27 04:13:29 looks like their shipping out of texas Oct 27 04:13:32 Hmmmm TX to UT shouldn't take 3 days.... maybe I'll get lucky Oct 27 04:13:34 err they're Oct 27 04:14:00 for me, it went TX->IL->MI Oct 27 04:14:18 Yeah, I forgot about the hubs... Might be 2 days for me Oct 27 04:14:25 maybe still 3 Oct 27 04:15:16 Is the voice audio stream (inbound / outbound) available to apps? for instance.... to create a vocoder application or a voice scrambler one? Oct 27 04:15:47 It would be hella cool to call in to talk radio shows and sound like some kind of psycho killer from a movie... :) Oct 27 04:16:22 Or to spit out TTS over the phone Oct 27 04:16:53 it would be super awesome if the layouts in the documentation had pictures... Oct 27 04:17:14 GUI components documented with G? Oct 27 04:17:25 ya Oct 27 04:17:32 That would be too easy to U Oct 27 04:18:10 languish: of all the apps to go up, lolcat builder << what's wrong wi that? Oct 27 04:18:38 omg therez a lolcat builder!? =D Oct 27 04:18:44 umdk1d3: yeah Oct 27 04:18:49 srsly? Oct 27 04:18:54 it's open source even Oct 27 04:18:55 just very tired of getting send so many adorable cats with horiffic captions Oct 27 04:18:57 I think Oct 27 04:19:05 *sent Oct 27 04:19:10 http://code.google.com/p/apps-for-android/source/browse/#svn/trunk/LolcatBuilder Oct 27 04:19:13 My sister will be ripping mad she bought an iPhone 3G - she's a total cat person Oct 27 04:19:20 lol Oct 27 04:19:26 ROFLMAO Oct 27 04:19:27 and she always sends me pictures of her damned cats Oct 27 04:19:36 ... but without any cool captions Oct 27 04:20:22 it's the rule of the thirds in photography: one third of black and white, one third of cats, one third of children Oct 27 04:20:22 I had about 30 people send me some lolcat of a cats rectum and various assinine (pun intended) captions Oct 27 04:20:35 it's fine when the captions actually clever and funny. most aren't Oct 27 04:22:32 romainguy - do you know if the bluetooth serial port profile is implemeted? I saw in a June '50 questions' thing on Cnet that it was going to be - but I heard a lot of bluetooth crap got left on the cutting room floor waiting for later releases Oct 27 04:22:44 no idea Oct 27 04:22:46 ok. Oct 27 04:24:39 cant you access the market from the emu? Oct 27 04:26:16 jham! Oct 27 04:26:28 oh. I guess it is irrelevant about the serial port profile - since there isn't any access to the bluetooth API in the 1.0 release Oct 27 04:28:14 ok this one's funny Oct 27 04:28:18 under games.. Oct 27 04:28:56 whats with snakes on a phone? Oct 27 04:29:04 google humor? Oct 27 04:30:23 * waldo__ is away: auto-away Oct 27 04:35:32 anyone got a code snippet for sending an email? (via an Intent) Oct 27 04:35:39 ACTION_SEND seems not to work :( Oct 27 04:35:53 * umdk1d3 does, brb with it Oct 27 04:36:13 No application can perform this action Oct 27 04:36:21 hey, plusminus_ one of the apps you uploaded to my site didnt work, had 2 g1 users try it. figured you might want to know Oct 27 04:36:32 the andsudoku demo Oct 27 04:36:34 which one ? Oct 27 04:36:36 hm... Oct 27 04:36:40 pipes worked great Oct 27 04:36:44 thx I'll have a look Oct 27 04:36:47 :) Oct 27 04:36:47 Intent intent = new Intent(Intent.ACTION_SEND); Oct 27 04:36:48 intent.setType("plain/html"); Oct 27 04:36:48 intent.putExtra(Intent.EXTRA_SUBJECT, subject); Oct 27 04:36:48 intent.putExtra(Intent.EXTRA_TEXT, body); Oct 27 04:36:48 intent = Intent.createChooser(intent, context.getResources().getString(R.string.share_choose_email)); Oct 27 04:36:51 context.startActivity(intent); Oct 27 04:36:53 there we go :) Oct 27 04:36:54 np Oct 27 04:37:50 plusminus_: im using that intent and its been working great Oct 27 04:38:29 looks like i was missing plain/text thx ! Oct 27 04:48:21 Hmm.. is there a dynamic way to pick the map apikey? Can the app tell what key it was signed with? So i don't have to switch between release and debug with comments. Oct 27 04:57:24 I will need to know alot about sockets for android programming no? Oct 27 05:03:13 its dying in here Oct 27 05:04:17 ya Oct 27 05:04:40 * geist pours acid into the room and stirs it up Oct 27 05:05:24 * OpenVirus tosses in the alligator clips connected to the a.c. outlet Oct 27 05:09:06 OpenVirus: err... depends on what you're doing Oct 27 05:09:08 what I like most about the android market... are all the logos Oct 27 05:09:18 :| Oct 27 05:09:42 lol @ logos Oct 27 05:10:02 some are better than others Oct 27 05:10:09 the absolutely best one.. Oct 27 05:10:15 is the icon logo for Amazed Oct 27 05:10:18 rofl Oct 27 05:10:26 ^^ Oct 27 05:10:29 :D Oct 27 05:10:30 its........ simple :-D Oct 27 05:10:33 yes Oct 27 05:10:36 I like it Oct 27 05:11:25 gradient button ftw Oct 27 05:11:51 languish: you complain a lot :) Oct 27 05:12:02 shop everywhere's logo is inspired Oct 27 05:12:09 cooking capsules.. creeps me out Oct 27 05:12:15 I like the Locale logo Oct 27 05:12:23 it's simple, but visually appealing Oct 27 05:12:32 plusminus_ you're from college park, right? Oct 27 05:12:54 romainguy, geeze accuse me of complaining while talking about what I like for a chaneg... Oct 27 05:12:59 *change Oct 27 05:13:06 * languish persecuted Oct 27 05:14:37 awesome Oct 27 05:14:43 ssh @ stoplight Oct 27 05:14:52 hrm, the mavirck app needs a description in the market Oct 27 05:15:03 umdk1d3 :/ Oct 27 05:15:14 don't irc and drive buddy :| Oct 27 05:16:05 trigatch4: temporary (originally from germany) Oct 27 05:16:23 awesum im swervin evrwhere Oct 27 05:16:54 oops missd turn Oct 27 05:17:10 umdk1d3: quick, turn on GPS so we can see your trajectory! Oct 27 05:17:27 Android kills 12 this weekend, Ban on marketing while driving hitting congress this week! Oct 27 05:17:30 ok, ringdroid is a class act Oct 27 05:17:34 i,i Ballistic kinematics Oct 27 05:17:43 DarkriftX: haha Oct 27 05:19:08 yay home safe Oct 27 05:19:12 ok, don't fear the reaper ringtone donw Oct 27 05:19:15 *done Oct 27 05:19:27 im very impressed with gsm data networks Oct 27 05:19:36 gsm or utms? Oct 27 05:19:48 they kept socket alive between several towers Oct 27 05:20:09 it was mix of edge and gprs, no 3g Oct 27 05:20:22 cool Oct 27 05:20:41 altho this isnt tmobile :P Oct 27 05:20:50 lol Oct 27 05:20:58 I can imagine someone will write a location-aware IRC client that will both change the nic and also post /me comments every time a user travels 20 feet Oct 27 05:21:14 RyeBrye: I think that's why we have Twitter Oct 27 05:21:22 I can also imagine all those users being promptly kick-banned from every IRC channel they enter :) Oct 27 05:21:28 RyeBrye: there's already a location-aware IRC client and server for android (someone wrote it for the ADC, I think) Oct 27 05:21:41 * RyeBrye walks 10 feet west Oct 27 05:21:47 * RyeBrye walks 10 feet east Oct 27 05:22:02 * RyeBrye thinks this would get annoying fast, and hopes that didn't win anything in the ADC Oct 27 05:23:42 RyeBrye: Twiiter was created for this sort of thing, because your IM client away message wasn't enough Oct 27 05:24:03 :) Oct 27 05:24:16 who is doing AndNav Oct 27 05:24:16 ? Oct 27 05:24:21 isn't it someone in here? Oct 27 05:24:30 plusminus_ i think Oct 27 05:24:37 although to be fair, I don't think AIM would be happy with 2000 people following your IM addy. Oct 27 05:24:39 oh no Oct 27 05:24:41 umm Oct 27 05:24:48 or any of the rest of them Oct 27 05:24:55 yeah, true Oct 27 05:25:08 yeah, it's plusminus Oct 27 05:25:18 RyeBrye, its plusminus Oct 27 05:28:56 yep me Oct 27 05:29:10 btw GeoCoder is going weird... java.io.IOException: Unable to parse response from server Oct 27 05:29:50 plusminus_ - looks pretty nice. any plans to release the source? Oct 27 05:30:14 we'll see Oct 27 05:30:17 screw the source, i want the app Oct 27 05:30:20 heh Oct 27 05:30:25 tonight I hammered a open beta Oct 27 05:30:32 I was pondering a maemo mapper port Oct 27 05:30:36 it'll be workign for 1 month from tomorrow Oct 27 05:30:42 i cant wait to get a g1 Oct 27 05:30:51 so much good shit being developed Oct 27 05:31:10 connectbot.org is a kick-ass ssh client. Oct 27 05:31:13 pinpoint, locale, andnav and lots of games Oct 27 05:31:23 pinpoint? Oct 27 05:31:36 yeah, an author in here is making it, its still alpha and he hasnt released it Oct 27 05:31:39 can anyone check GoogleMaps on his G1 ? Oct 27 05:31:50 mine isn't working currently (loads no maptiles) Oct 27 05:31:56 also Geocoder doesn't work :/ Oct 27 05:31:58 you program a pin # and if you text the phone "locate ####" (your pin) it will text you back its gps location Oct 27 05:31:58 * spikebike checks Oct 27 05:32:06 so if you lose your phone or it gets stolen, yuo can find it Oct 27 05:32:10 oh EDGE is down ´, lol Oct 27 05:32:14 ah, nice Oct 27 05:32:14 plusminus_ - next weekend I might be able to help create you some graphics for some of your screens if you want Oct 27 05:32:15 wtf... Oct 27 05:32:16 i loved that idea Oct 27 05:32:31 is that in the store Oct 27 05:32:35 * RyeBrye was raised by a graphic designer and learned the trade well before deciding to throw it all away and be a programmer Oct 27 05:32:41 no, its unreleased Oct 27 05:32:55 RyeBrye: sure if you like to. I appreciate that :) Oct 27 05:33:03 maemo mapper is much like google maps, but it does navigation, stores tracks, can download routes, and stores tiles locally Oct 27 05:33:05 http://www.anddev.org/andnav_-_android_map-routing-system-t740.html is that thread the open beta place? Oct 27 05:33:18 so it can do the one crucial thing that I want... help me when I'm lost and don't have cell coverage Oct 27 05:33:19 RyeBrye: you'll find my contactdetails on anddev.org Oct 27 05:33:24 ok Oct 27 05:33:41 My G1 should come this week, so my motivation will increase exponentially Oct 27 05:33:46 erm no I think I'll put it to the market tomorrow. Clearly declared as BETA :-D Oct 27 05:34:15 mmm market Oct 27 05:34:28 me debates doing an allnighter Oct 27 05:34:44 :-D got to work tomorrow :( Oct 27 05:34:55 got something you're hoping to launch as soon as stuff goes live? Oct 27 05:35:13 g1 to connectbot to screen to irssi. woot Oct 27 05:35:15 ive got 4 apks ready ^.^ Oct 27 05:35:28 busy! Oct 27 05:35:38 connectbot one of 'em? Oct 27 05:35:41 i got 3... 3 more if paid apps were possible Oct 27 05:36:02 I'll need to put the AndNav-no-more-beta to a separate Market-Application, because 'hey this is not working' comments would suck :-D Oct 27 05:36:02 wow Oct 27 05:36:54 plus, how did you resolve the no-live-nav restrivtions of andnav, using OSM now? Oct 27 05:37:25 AndNav1 is 'static navigation' what means no current gps position Oct 27 05:37:33 ahic Oct 27 05:37:33 AndNav2 will do realtime-nav on osm data Oct 27 05:37:46 expect it in 2-4 weeks Oct 27 05:37:49 yay :) Oct 27 05:37:55 probably not worldwide in the beginning Oct 27 05:38:21 half of europe routing is rdy Oct 27 05:38:23 hey, anyone know how to have an email address send a gtalk message? Oct 27 05:38:35 I've got a pager number that sends email and a SMS message Oct 27 05:38:36 USA is next, so I can do reallife-testing Oct 27 05:38:42 but I can't get SMS inside my office Oct 27 05:39:13 dude, where is my EDGE :'( Oct 27 05:39:47 restarting G1 :/ Oct 27 05:42:25 so anyone know a way to download .apk files from the market? Oct 27 05:44:30 Awesome... No Internet-Connection... in the damn night before market opens. Oct 27 05:44:38 DarkriftX, the point is you're not supposed to. The market is there to provide drm :| at least afaik. maybe they'll add a method for apk's that devs want people to share freely Oct 27 05:45:18 SUXXX Oct 27 05:45:25 i wanted to try some of that stuff on the emu Oct 27 05:45:30 that's why you can host your own market Oct 27 05:45:52 ask the devs of the apps for an apk Oct 27 05:46:02 half of them are in here :| Oct 27 05:46:28 thats my long term goal Oct 27 05:48:22 btw, any developers that already have a few apps want their own subforum? Oct 27 05:50:07 does the market open at 12? Oct 27 05:50:34 is Inderjeet Singh in the channel? Inderjeet? You here? Oct 27 05:50:51 You might want to correct your app description Oct 27 05:51:02 in the market Oct 27 05:51:26 "and helps you learning them" Oct 27 05:51:29 i would guess they announce market at 9am pdt Oct 27 05:52:23 ok Oct 27 05:52:35 how many apps are being released then Oct 27 05:52:42 I know all the third party, but is there a guesstimate? Oct 27 05:52:58 over 9000 Oct 27 05:53:19 egads Oct 27 05:53:33 anyone would like to test my app for tomorrow? http://href.to/xld Oct 27 05:53:39 and will there be a central website to get information on them? Oct 27 05:53:42 that was AndSudoku Oct 27 05:54:03 plusminus_, did you update it on dark's forum? Oct 27 05:54:09 I'll grab it there and test Oct 27 05:54:12 nope, not yet Oct 27 05:54:22 omg are you serious Oct 27 05:54:24 no Oct 27 05:54:26 9k? Oct 27 05:54:33 sigh Oct 27 05:54:34 OpenVirus, one can only hopew Oct 27 05:54:35 AndPipes: http://href.to/jN2 Oct 27 05:54:42 pipes I tested Oct 27 05:54:52 languish: If you confitm that it installs I'll put it there Oct 27 05:54:54 unless you updated the help file desc? Oct 27 05:54:58 haha Oct 27 05:55:01 plusminus_, ok will do Oct 27 05:55:10 languish: It wasn't sufficient ? :-D Oct 27 05:55:34 sigh nobody in here gets meme references Oct 27 05:55:42 plusminus_, lol.. an element was missing.. I first assumed the pipes had to lead somewhere, not just beat the clock Oct 27 05:55:42 How do you update GeoPoint data in a OverlayItem in am ItemizedOverlay? It seems OverlayItems are immutable? Oct 27 05:56:03 umdk1d3, I got it Oct 27 05:56:06 I ignored it Oct 27 05:56:09 :| Oct 27 05:56:16 too much 4chan :| Oct 27 05:56:22 sigh lol Oct 27 05:56:29 4 is crap these days Oct 27 05:57:04 And map experts around? :P Oct 27 05:58:39 I want to move an OverlayItem D: Oct 27 05:59:18 languish, if that new apk works, ill re-add it to the forum Oct 27 06:00:59 wow, someone just spammed my url on a forum Oct 27 06:01:07 18 ppl just hit my site in 15 seconds Oct 27 06:01:17 its like a mini digg effect Oct 27 06:01:20 what's your site dark? Oct 27 06:01:30 url plz? Oct 27 06:01:36 thx Oct 27 06:06:19 languish, did you try andsudoku yet? Oct 27 06:09:10 Anyone set up the SDK for Ubuntu 8.10? Oct 27 06:09:43 I've done 8.04 Oct 27 06:09:46 it "just works" Oct 27 06:09:52 is 8.10 different? Oct 27 06:10:27 Just works, in what sense? Oct 27 06:10:45 I'm searching for newer Eclipse packages first :P Oct 27 06:14:16 ah Oct 27 06:14:28 is the current sdk not compatible with the default eclipse in 8.10? Oct 27 06:15:39 spikebike: not compat with any of ubuntu's eclipse versions Oct 27 06:16:29 ah, good to know, I'm waiting for the 8.10 release before upgrading Oct 27 06:21:17 has Android Market opened for developers ? Oct 27 06:22:49 neerhaj: tomorrow :) Oct 27 06:23:38 what timezone does it follow ? Oct 27 06:23:41 pdt ? Oct 27 06:23:44 teehee Oct 27 06:23:57 just pushed my very first change into gerrit ;) Oct 27 06:24:06 this is exciting hehe Oct 27 06:24:50 speaking of your change Oct 27 06:24:57 you might as well keep the compiled regex around Oct 27 06:25:42 oh nevermind Oct 27 06:26:28 hehe, just a small change Oct 27 06:26:39 my roommate sent me an e-mail and it showed up as null while i was testing :) Oct 27 06:26:57 jasta: Could you commit a fix in this line: http://android.git.kernel.org/?p=platform/frameworks/base.git;a=blob;f=location/java/android/location/Geocoder.java#l231 Oct 27 06:27:12 current: 231 maxResults, mLanguage, mCountry, mVariant, mAppName, new ArrayList
()); Oct 27 06:27:16 i'd really rather not commit fixes on your behalf, why can't you? Oct 27 06:27:30 shoud be: 231 maxResults, mLanguage, mCountry, mVariant, mAppName, result ); Oct 27 06:27:31 plusminus_: jasta cannot commit :) Oct 27 06:27:38 plusminus_: you should send a patch yourself Oct 27 06:27:42 or suggest Oct 27 06:28:01 I had not yet time to have a look on that Oct 27 06:28:21 romainguy: I can do all on windows, except compiling, right? Oct 27 06:28:26 yep Oct 27 06:29:07 so I'll check it out soon and fix it Oct 27 06:40:08 good luck tomorrow @ all :) Oct 27 07:05:34 bug filed Oct 27 07:05:55 hope I explained it well enough :/ Oct 27 07:19:21 * DarkriftX shakes the channel awake Oct 27 07:30:17 swetland? Oct 27 08:02:15 what is the most hackable phone? Oct 27 08:03:03 I want to use a phone as a modem connecting to a linux laptop Oct 27 08:03:24 which cell phone(s) is suitable Oct 27 08:03:28 joshux, Oct 27 08:03:29 oops Oct 27 08:03:38 I'm not sure that you can do that with the G1 Oct 27 08:03:43 so some sort of Nokia might be in order Oct 27 08:06:21 Sony ericsson phones work great for this Oct 27 08:08:07 btw would it possible be illegal if I'm doing this Oct 27 08:08:11 thanks Oct 27 08:08:48 since calling between the same provider is free Oct 27 08:09:11 joshux: it's not illegal, but it could violate your terms of service with your cellular provider, depending on your contract. Oct 27 08:09:12 it seems that I can use free internet ? Oct 27 08:09:26 the worst they can do is cut you off. Oct 27 08:09:41 rwhitby, btw I'm not in the US Oct 27 08:09:44 ok Oct 27 08:09:50 thanks :) Oct 27 08:10:12 joshux: neither am I. aren't we both lucky ;-) Oct 27 08:14:00 unless you specifically pay for tethering it's usually against the ToS Oct 27 08:14:22 but yeah you don't end up in jail, just extra fees or termination Oct 27 08:19:06 so it's possible to access internet for free, provided that the calling rate is free? Oct 27 08:19:11 TIA Oct 27 08:20:05 no Oct 27 08:20:20 data and voice are charges separately usually Oct 27 08:20:25 charged Oct 27 08:20:30 some plans charge by the MB Oct 27 08:20:47 some are "unlimited" which usually means 5-10GB per month Oct 27 08:21:50 \o Oct 27 08:22:07 in general things like an iphone/g1 are best to use to access the net directly Oct 27 08:22:17 if your main goal is tethering I'd get something like a nokia n75 Oct 27 08:23:09 spikebike, thanks Oct 27 08:23:27 www.nokia.com has tools to "hack" your phone to enable tethering Oct 27 08:23:39 n75 I get it Oct 27 08:23:44 wow cool Oct 27 08:23:45 amusingly many phone companies don't consider it a "smart" phone so just charge the cheaper rate Oct 27 08:24:30 * waldo__ is back (gone 03:54:07) Oct 27 08:29:04 spikebike, can I set up a ppp dial in server then use the cell phone as a modem Oct 27 08:29:17 this way it is free right? Oct 27 08:30:21 I just want something like ssh over wireless :-p Oct 27 08:30:48 anyway, it's fun Oct 27 08:31:44 er Oct 27 08:31:51 not free but you have to get a data plan Oct 27 08:31:56 oh Oct 27 08:32:04 modem costs voice minutes Oct 27 08:33:30 uh, google, where's ours? http://www.macrumors.com/2008/10/27/google-releases-google-earth-for-iphone-and-ipod-touch/ Oct 27 08:34:11 ,,, Oct 27 08:35:09 spikebike, but calling between the same provider is free here Oct 27 08:36:09 I'd expect it to be pretty slow Oct 27 08:36:15 hrm, found an andoid rpn calc Oct 27 08:36:38 downloaded the zip, has a .apk inside, put it on the web, it downloaded to the g1... then nothing 8-( Oct 27 08:36:47 slow is ok, since I only need text transfer Oct 27 08:38:38 so phone call to land line is free? Oct 27 08:40:20 not land line( if you mean traditional phone line ) but cell phone to cell phone with the same provider is free Oct 27 08:42:50 ah Oct 27 08:42:58 should work Oct 27 08:43:15 although terms of service might include something about human use Oct 27 08:43:25 were you thinking occasionally or 24/7? Oct 27 08:43:37 hrm, is there any way to delete something you downloaded? Oct 27 08:43:57 occasionally Oct 27 08:45:25 oh, heh, just hook up USB and it mounts that partition Oct 27 08:47:14 I suspect the latency would be pretty high/annoying Oct 27 09:03:01 are the usb cables univeral? Oct 27 09:12:33 ya Oct 27 09:12:38 (for the g1) Oct 27 09:12:45 for data and power anyways Oct 27 09:12:51 there's nonstandard pins for audio Oct 27 09:13:00 but they don't interfere with normal cables Oct 27 09:13:14 which is awesome since I have about a dozen around Oct 27 09:17:04 spikebike http://forums.t-mobile.com/tmbl/board/message?board.id=87&message.id=3278&query.id=74883#M3278 Oct 27 09:20:19 but I saw some cable seems specific to nokia like DKU-5 Oct 27 09:20:21 http://www.amazon.co.uk/Nokia-DKU-5-Data-Cable/dp/B00007BHPL Oct 27 09:20:38 do I need to buy something like that? Oct 27 09:27:15 languish ya Oct 27 09:27:35 nfi on nokia Oct 27 09:36:20 * spikebike tries to send a gtalk message via python Oct 27 09:36:32 I was hoping that jabber would "just work" Oct 27 10:27:06 spikebike, thanks a lot Oct 27 10:27:51 * languish can't tell if that was in earnest or spoken wryly Oct 27 10:34:02 hi, i guess i am having problems downloading the sources of android via "repo sync". i havent found a parameter for showing the status of the download, so, is there a possiblity to verfiy this? repo sync just stops after a while or just returns without notification. help is appreaciated very much Oct 27 10:36:54 * waldo_ is away: auto-away Oct 27 12:59:25 http://vimeo.com/2077511 Oct 27 12:59:39 Where can we get that little Android ? :D Oct 27 13:15:37 Dougie187: howdy Oct 27 13:15:48 Good morning michaelnovakjr Oct 27 13:15:52 How are you doing? Oct 27 13:16:05 i'm good, how's it going? Oct 27 13:16:10 pretty good Oct 27 13:16:14 just reading about OpenFOAM Oct 27 13:16:18 got the xps all set up Oct 27 13:16:29 Nice Oct 27 13:16:30 how is it? Oct 27 13:16:39 excellent.... fast Oct 27 13:16:47 Thats always good. Oct 27 13:16:48 nvidia is nice to have Oct 27 13:16:50 You got ubuntu on it? Oct 27 13:16:54 yep Oct 27 13:16:55 nice. Oct 27 13:16:59 new ubuntu on thursday Oct 27 13:17:04 yawn Oct 27 13:17:07 ;) Oct 27 13:17:07 gnome 2.24 Oct 27 13:17:11 yeah Oct 27 13:17:16 its gonna be sweet Oct 27 13:17:20 it supports wireless n supposedly Oct 27 13:17:31 if you have a wireless n card... hardy doesn't support n speeds. Oct 27 13:17:33 nice, my laptop has an n card in it Oct 27 13:17:39 mine too Oct 27 13:17:43 do you have an n router/ Oct 27 13:17:44 i don't have an n router yet though Oct 27 13:17:51 oh ok. Oct 27 13:17:53 i want to pick up that dual band router Oct 27 13:18:08 well if you get one before thursday, hardy doesn't support n speeds. so don't worry if you don't get them Oct 27 13:18:16 :) Oct 27 13:18:19 i guess they forgot to add some flag when they compiled the kernels or something like that. Oct 27 13:18:28 they said they would add it to ibex Oct 27 13:18:32 nice Oct 27 13:19:23 your thinkpad is lenovo branded right Oct 27 13:19:26 yeah Oct 27 13:19:29 no ibm on it. Oct 27 13:19:34 i was looking at those too Oct 27 13:19:46 im enjoying it. Oct 27 13:19:49 but thats good you got nvidia. Oct 27 13:19:54 nvidia is pretty sweet Oct 27 13:19:56 yea, 128mb Oct 27 13:20:06 and you can install nvidia-settings and it makes it easy to manage your displays. Oct 27 13:20:10 its either the 8400 or 9400 i don't remember Oct 27 13:20:12 does the hdmi out work in ubuntu? Oct 27 13:20:20 haven't tried it yet Oct 27 13:20:26 going to tonight when i get home Oct 27 13:20:33 cool Oct 27 13:21:29 apparently you can get the fingerprint reader working in ubuntu as well Oct 27 13:21:51 yeah i hear its really helpful Oct 27 13:21:55 you can set it up for sudo and stuff Oct 27 13:22:06 nice Oct 27 13:24:30 it would be pretty sweet Oct 27 13:25:28 yea, i'm going to mess with that tonight too Oct 27 13:26:09 That didn't take too long for you to get it. Oct 27 13:29:45 * plusminus_ test Oct 27 13:30:12 test Oct 27 13:30:20 failed? Oct 27 13:30:22 yea it was pretty quick Oct 27 13:30:30 ;) my webclient showed I wasn"t logged in Oct 27 13:30:39 heh Oct 27 13:30:52 michaelnovakjr: my thinkpad took longer to get here than that did Oct 27 13:30:59 we expect the market to open on 9am PDT ? Oct 27 13:31:00 how long did it take? Oct 27 13:31:36 Dougie187, did you see Sprint's CEO talking about how Android isn't good enough for Sprint right now? Oct 27 13:31:42 what a dumb ass! Oct 27 13:31:52 tethridge: yeah... i was sad about that Oct 27 13:32:02 good thing they have the instinct Oct 27 13:32:03 but i don't know how true it is, since they have said they would have a phone by the end of the year. Oct 27 13:32:14 yeah, too bad it doesn't have a keyboard though Oct 27 13:32:29 it doesn't have wifi either Oct 27 13:32:35 huh Oct 27 13:32:37 yep Oct 27 13:32:39 that is useless Oct 27 13:32:45 yeah... Oct 27 13:32:47 all web browsing is over their network Oct 27 13:33:28 For that phone at least. Oct 27 13:33:32 and if your download is over 10 meg..... that is annoying Oct 27 13:34:29 pretty cool post. http://automorphic.blogspot.com/2008/10/got-g1-yay-linux.html Oct 27 13:34:44 banshee syncing to g1 Oct 27 13:35:34 i can't wait for them to get android to run on a htc touch pro Oct 27 13:35:45 that would be nice Oct 27 13:40:42 michaelnovakjr: how are the apps coming? Oct 27 13:41:02 not too bad, someone wanted the file browser, so i'm updating that one today Oct 27 13:41:13 not sure if it will work on a real device though, i have heard it won't Oct 27 13:41:42 thats weird. Oct 27 13:41:54 got anything else fun you are working on? Oct 27 13:45:03 i was looking at exchange support for android Oct 27 13:46:07 i bet a lot of people would sleep with you if you got that to work. Oct 27 13:46:14 :) Oct 27 13:46:16 haha Oct 27 13:46:17 not me Oct 27 13:46:19 :-) Oct 27 13:47:02 tethridge: you lie. Oct 27 13:47:03 lol Oct 27 13:47:08 i hear you are quite the floosey. Oct 27 13:47:10 you got me Oct 27 13:47:22 heh Oct 27 13:53:17 how do you add a new CA root cert to allow its use with e-mail? Oct 27 14:00:30 so i don't suppose anybody has considered or suceeded in getting Mono running on the G1? Perhaps even using something crazy like a modified IKVM to get the Java platform bits working? Oct 27 14:01:13 how can i have a TextView display "Terms of Use" but link to "www.blah.com/terms"? Oct 27 14:01:30 can't do that with xml right? Oct 27 14:01:43 mpardo: you mean make the text a link? Oct 27 14:01:48 yes Oct 27 14:01:55 check out the TextView docs Oct 27 14:02:00 there's a way to do it Oct 27 14:02:07 in the xml? Oct 27 14:02:23 possibly, if not definitely in java, i just haven't looked at it in awhile Oct 27 14:02:30 autolink="web" will link Oct 27 14:02:30 mpardo: yeah, you can do it in xml Oct 27 14:02:36 yeah Oct 27 14:02:39 bingo Oct 27 14:02:48 but autolink links the complete text Oct 27 14:03:05 i want it todisplay "Terms" and link to "www.blah.com/terms" Oct 27 14:04:37 michaelnovakjr: there is already some work going on with WebDAV and OWA access to exchange stuff Oct 27 14:18:02 uploaded mobeegal to android market.. can anyone just confirm its visibile in their G1? thanks. Oct 27 14:18:50 muthu: I see it Oct 27 14:18:56 zhobbs: thanks Oct 27 14:19:02 muthu: is it up ?? Oct 27 14:19:12 plusminus_: oh yeah Oct 27 14:19:13 yes Oct 27 14:19:16 register and upload Oct 27 14:19:18 yeeha Oct 27 14:24:08 wait, market is open? =D Oct 27 14:24:16 yeah, for a long time now Oct 27 14:24:20 i forgot my new voicemail password :] Oct 27 14:24:50 well crap lol Oct 27 14:24:54 how one can buy an android phone without t-mobile... (hint: I'm not in the US) Oct 27 14:25:04 Hire ninjas Oct 27 14:25:06 ebay Oct 27 14:25:21 so do i need another account, because my gmail isnt happy Oct 27 14:25:25 can you then use it with your local provider? Oct 27 14:25:38 ohwait there we go :) Oct 27 14:25:39 hub: ebay Oct 27 14:25:46 not ebay Oct 27 14:25:54 that's a crook nest Oct 27 14:26:18 ebay + http://www.unlock-tmobileg1.com Oct 27 14:26:19 if you dont know how to use it then yes Oct 27 14:27:18 zhobbs: non-withstanding the crooks that sells "unlock" code Oct 27 14:27:30 I was hoping that Google would be different Oct 27 14:27:34 apparently not Oct 27 14:28:11 you mean tmobile Oct 27 14:29:06 hub: I ordered a code off there, will let you know if it works Oct 27 14:30:01 * jt436 interested to see what the market looks like at the end of the day after everyone has uploaded content Oct 27 14:30:37 jt436: me too Oct 27 14:30:41 Hey everybody. Anybody have a solution to repo init? I am getting something like this: http://pastebin.com/m15b55b91 Oct 27 14:30:44 I know this is Android channel and not about T-Mobile or the G1, but does anybody happen to have a clue if there is a wait (and how long) when ordering the G1 like today? Oct 27 14:30:46 so what is the advantage to unlocking your phone? Oct 27 14:30:52 unless you travel out of country? Oct 27 14:31:26 fleeting if the store has stock I doubt you would need to wait in line Oct 27 14:31:33 yea Oct 27 14:31:49 jt436: when ordering online, I'm a few hours away from a 3G area. Oct 27 14:33:40 fleeting: ah ok, no idea sorry Oct 27 14:34:30 jt436: alright, I'm ordering one Friday and was just wondering if there was a backorder and how long for online orders. Oct 27 14:35:40 Could anyone try downloading my apps from the market? Oct 27 14:36:37 AndPipes and AndSudoku Oct 27 14:36:42 plusminus_: sure Oct 27 14:36:46 my market isn't downloading :) Oct 27 14:37:14 market is a bit weird.. doesn't let you delete your saved drafts Oct 27 14:37:40 plusminus_: demos? Oct 27 14:37:52 yep Oct 27 14:38:28 plusminus_: they download fine Oct 27 14:38:29 give me a couple and I'll grab Sudoku. My Mom was asking for that on Sat. hehe Oct 27 14:38:52 a Sudoku game ? Oct 27 14:39:09 yeah Oct 27 14:39:20 ^^ Oct 27 14:39:45 she's 79 so she's not as interested in the phone, but she likes games well enough Oct 27 14:40:26 how long the google check process will take? Oct 27 14:40:50 not long at all Oct 27 14:41:04 the 25$ ? 10 seconds Oct 27 14:41:08 hi morrildl - are things settling down for you some? Oct 27 14:41:22 its like 10 mins now, still in progress... Oct 27 14:41:25 Open Source Release: http://source.android.com/ | Android Market is now open for new applications: http://market.android.com/publish | Check out the updated contents of Apps-For-Android: http://code.google.com/p/apps-for-android/ Oct 27 14:41:37 Oops Oct 27 14:41:51 anyone here involved with the Gmote app? Oct 27 14:42:12 morrildl: ;P Oct 27 14:42:31 hi guys... prolly a stupid question but is it possible to get a compiler installed under android and compile C/C++ code directly on the G1 handset? Oct 27 14:42:33 If that /topic line keeps growing it's going to needs its own FAQ list. Oct 27 14:42:50 it probably should just point to a FAQ list Oct 27 14:42:51 yi_: possible, yes. Oct 27 14:43:03 You'd be the first I know of though. Oct 27 14:43:20 yi_, I don't think it would be *easy* Oct 27 14:43:28 but that makes it more interesting:-) Oct 27 14:43:40 is there a terminal on the phone? I haven't seen anyone attempting this yet Oct 27 14:44:32 yi_: development/apps/Term/ ? Oct 27 14:44:50 is there a web site where you can browse the market without being on the g1? Oct 27 14:45:56 yeah Oct 27 14:46:02 i think its something like www.android.com/market Oct 27 14:46:08 but its just a demo. Oct 27 14:46:18 there's a bunch of new apps this AM Oct 27 14:46:26 Great, I'm registered, now I just need a phone Oct 27 14:46:46 but that is just the showcase. Is there a web site that shows what I would see when browsing the phone? Oct 27 14:46:49 fadden0: are you saying there's a java version of a terminal in development? Oct 27 14:47:19 yi_: I'm saying there's a Java version of a terminal app in the open-source tree. Oct 27 14:48:46 fadden0: interesting.. so theoretically if someone compiled a binary of a compiler that would run on the G1 you could compile say gnome-terminal on the phone itself? Oct 27 14:49:01 lol Oct 27 14:49:26 yi_: in theory, sure. In practice, there are a *lot* of steps involved to get something like that to work. Oct 27 14:49:52 Like, I'm guessing gnome-terminal requires GTK. Oct 27 14:50:12 davidw: actually it wouldn't be that hard, really. You should be able to just install headers and such onto /sdcard, and with an appropriate build of the compiler and toolchain installed into /data/apps/ owned by an ap, it should work. Except that the result would be executables that can only be run by the same .apk Oct 27 14:50:13 I'm just curious because we already have tons of open source software out there.. it would be nice if we could just compile it for the phone rather than reinvent the wheel with some of this stuff Oct 27 14:50:16 Cross-compilation is a much better way to go for embedded systems. Oct 27 14:50:54 morrildl, I'm used to apt-get at this point... that sounds hard;-) Oct 27 14:51:34 Bear in mind Android's libc has a BSD heritage rather than a glibc heritage. Some porting will be required. Oct 27 14:52:00 davidw: apt-get wouldn't work unless you were using a mirror that had pre compiled binaries for the G1 Oct 27 14:52:18 yi_, err, yeah, I know that Oct 27 14:52:24 :D there is a Lolcat-builder app in the market :-D Oct 27 14:52:36 ?? Oct 27 14:52:37 I built android from source last night on OSX. The emulator works except it doesn't seem to have network access. Can anyone suggest where I should look? Oct 27 14:53:27 tomgibara: can you check if the browser can access web sites by IP address? (e.g. 216.218.186.2) Oct 27 14:54:09 btw can I refresh the apps in the market-app they seem to be cached :/ Oct 27 14:54:38 plusminus_: if I leave/come back they seem to be refreshed Oct 27 14:54:49 jbq: Ah, yes, so I need to configure a DNS for it? Oct 27 14:55:25 http://b.android.com/996 ... I have no idea what the issue is. Oct 27 14:57:07 fadden0: bah, mere details ;) Oct 27 14:57:54 jbq: Thanks, I should have checked the issue list first. Oct 27 14:58:26 At least now I know I'm not the only one hitting that issue... Oct 27 15:00:13 I'll post a comment on the bug later with the relevant details. Oct 27 15:00:16 * morrildl obsessively reloads the Market to see what's getting uploaded... Oct 27 15:00:32 == morrildl Oct 27 15:00:46 * SanMehat sets up a robotic arm to press the reload button Oct 27 15:00:52 * ttuttle gets an intern to do it. Oct 27 15:00:56 oh good idea Oct 27 15:01:02 :) Oct 27 15:01:02 * ttuttle starts pressing reload for SanMehat. Oct 27 15:01:06 excellent Oct 27 15:01:11 this is going to work out *just fine* Oct 27 15:01:13 :) Oct 27 15:01:39 SanMehat: you have a little suck up on your hands. Oct 27 15:01:40 lol Oct 27 15:02:00 Dougie187: nah.. tuttle was a great intern Oct 27 15:02:17 but he is still willing to do intern stuff for you... Oct 27 15:02:33 sure.. all *good* interns are mentally prepared for a life of service. Oct 27 15:02:44 * ttuttle was prepared to make rlove espresso, but he never asked. Oct 27 15:02:45 :) Oct 27 15:02:53 lol Oct 27 15:02:59 * SanMehat doesnt like espresso.. just tea please :) Oct 27 15:03:06 SanMehat: Transit is new in Apps! Oct 27 15:03:13 SanMehat: What's the last app you saw? Oct 27 15:03:15 you don't like espresso? Oct 27 15:03:27 ttuttle: i dont know, i'm still building... Oct 27 15:03:32 also, Dougie187, did you see the bit about Hesse not feeling like android was ready yet? Oct 27 15:03:32 summatusmentis: yeah its not for me. Oct 27 15:03:43 summatusmentis: yeah... :( Oct 27 15:03:44 SanMehat: fair enough, I guess :) Oct 27 15:04:06 Dougie187: it was just a 'yet' which I assume menas at some point Oct 27 15:04:15 SanMehat, the next time you guys meet up with Sprint, do me a favor and get one of their guys to smack the CEO for me. :-) Oct 27 15:04:34 summatusmentis: yeah, but we were supposed to get a phone by the end of the year from them. Oct 27 15:04:41 SanMehat: So, since last time I checked, there is a Lolcat Builder (sample app), Gmote (media remote for PC), "JogTracker Beta", Mobeegal (mobile search), Toddler Lock (a screenlock/game combination), eWeb Audio Recorder, and Transit. Oct 27 15:04:43 tethridge: Sorry, i'm alergic to CEOs :) Oct 27 15:04:45 Dougie187: based on one engadget post? Oct 27 15:04:50 Er, sorry. Oct 27 15:04:54 Transit = Translit. Oct 27 15:04:54 SanMehat, get an intern to do it Oct 27 15:04:57 summatusmentis: yeah. Oct 27 15:05:03 tethridge: good idea... Oct 27 15:05:07 "Application allows users to enter Cyrillic text using the default G1 QWERTY keyboard." Oct 27 15:05:16 summatusmentis: but they said sources close to the matter said we would.... but then they posted that crap about hesse... Oct 27 15:05:53 Dougie187: It's still possible Sprint goes "surprise! Now android is ready, it just needed to fix that security hole in the browser" or something :) Oct 27 15:06:03 yeah. Oct 27 15:06:05 SanMehat: you guys have interns? cool! Oct 27 15:06:06 summatusmentis: I don't mind if they wait a few months. Oct 27 15:06:17 SanMehat: do you know anything about sprint getting an android phone? or is that all hush hush as well? Oct 27 15:06:19 summatusmentis: Not anymore, it's only during the summer. But, once an intern, always an intern. Oct 27 15:06:20 ttuttle: I don't really either, I just don't want them to wait indefinitely Oct 27 15:06:32 summatusmentis: Of course. Oct 27 15:06:57 ttuttle: well. I guess I didn't correlate android to the rest of google, who I know has interns Oct 27 15:07:07 summatusmentis: Oh, yeah, everyone gets interns if they want ;-) Oct 27 15:07:15 good to know Oct 27 15:07:37 although i'm apparently tied to my Summer of Code organization until I get a PhD :-P Oct 27 15:11:05 tunesremote and andnav is up Oct 27 15:11:07 i guess noone knows anything about sprint's android handset. Oct 27 15:11:08 :( Oct 27 15:11:36 Android isn't good enough for sprint Oct 27 15:11:57 i read that tmccrary Oct 27 15:12:10 i guess i mean... noone in google knows anything about sprints android handset.. Oct 27 15:12:11 there was an article where they said that? Oct 27 15:12:20 zhobbs: yeah... hesse said that Oct 27 15:12:48 http://www.engadget.com/2008/10/25/dan-hesse-sez-android-not-yet-good-enough-for-sprint-brand/ Oct 27 15:12:52 which I think is funny, as a *former* sprint customer Oct 27 15:13:00 Laz: better to say AndNav-Beta ;) Oct 27 15:13:00 Sprint only offers garbage for phones anyway Oct 27 15:13:06 Windows Mobile? LOL Oct 27 15:13:07 im a current sprint customer. Oct 27 15:13:16 tmccrary: what do most other carriers offer? Oct 27 15:13:29 ATT has the iphone Oct 27 15:13:32 summatusmentis: yeah we have interns Oct 27 15:13:45 SanMehat: that's cool :) Oct 27 15:14:18 tmccrary: thats one alternative. Oct 27 15:14:22 tmccrary: ATT has the iPhone, T-Mobile has G1, Sprint has Instinct Oct 27 15:14:24 tmccrary: what are ATT's other phones? Oct 27 15:14:31 beyond that, most providers hare WinMo/Palm/BB Oct 27 15:14:35 The instinked Oct 27 15:14:35 have* Oct 27 15:14:47 tmccrary: I'm not saying it's a good phone, just saying it's an alternative Oct 27 15:15:01 summatusmentis: but most palm's are winmo too Oct 27 15:15:19 Dougie187: true, although Sprint does have a pretty solid lineup of non winmo palm's Oct 27 15:15:22 or dide Oct 27 15:15:24 yeah Oct 27 15:15:25 did* Oct 27 15:15:30 and non winmo bbs Oct 27 15:15:32 * summatusmentis is rockin' the centro Oct 27 15:17:08 I don't see Sprint as having phones that are any worse than those of other US providers Oct 27 15:17:20 sigh /me gets depressed now Oct 27 15:17:26 save for obviously the G1, and potentially the iPhone Oct 27 15:17:37 umdk1d3: no! depression is bad! Oct 27 15:17:45 * summatusmentis gives umdk1d3 happy cookies Oct 27 15:17:50 :/ Oct 27 15:19:59 umdk1d3: hmmm? Oct 27 15:21:10 i loved my treos Oct 27 15:21:15 i almost got a centro instead of the g1 Oct 27 15:21:23 but the multi-tasking was too good to pass up Oct 27 15:21:43 Death_Syn: I would've preferred the g1, personally. But the centro has been a good entry level smartphone for me Oct 27 15:21:44 they have until February and then I'm jumping Sprints sinking ship if no Android phone appears on their line up. :-) Oct 27 15:22:29 jasonchen: would describe it as http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Postpartum_depression :P Oct 27 15:22:38 Google Earth released to iphone first ;( Oct 27 15:22:52 if palmos wasn't an all-but-dead platform, I'd have happily jumped on the centro wagon Oct 27 15:22:53 g1 is a terrible entry-level smartphone. if you don't know better it'll drive you right back to an old nokia candybar without even WAP :) Oct 27 15:22:56 there are a LOT of apps, though Oct 27 15:22:58 umdk1d3: i suspected that might be the case. Oct 27 15:23:11 you've got to let them leave the nest some time. :-) Oct 27 15:23:22 Disconnect: you're serious? the G1 wasn't an optin when i bought a plan Oct 27 15:23:40 its really terrible. it'll get better, but who knows how fast - tmob isn't known for doing frequent updates. Oct 27 15:23:43 * plusminus_ waiting for the first stats of his apps :) Oct 27 15:23:50 i found my first snag with the G1 today (besides not being used to the keyboard layout) Oct 27 15:23:57 animated gifs don't animate in the browser Oct 27 15:24:10 not bad for nearly a week Oct 27 15:24:35 I would consider that a feature, not a bug Oct 27 15:24:37 i cant wait till we get the kernel booting on my tilt.. Oct 27 15:24:47 vol: it'd be nice if it were configurable Oct 27 15:24:51 sometimes I look at radar loops Oct 27 15:24:53 CLICKER HERE TO PUNCH THE MONKEY IN THE FREE SHOPPING SPREE WHICH ONE IS JESSICA ALBA?! Oct 27 15:25:02 vol: those are usually flash Oct 27 15:25:07 nah Oct 27 15:25:11 there are a shitt ton of animated gifs Oct 27 15:25:16 true Oct 27 15:25:18 those are actually usually "fallback" methods of advertising Oct 27 15:25:18 too bad the Android Market doesn't care for open source projects, I'd like to add my (free) apps, but no way I'm paying 25 USD. Oct 27 15:25:21 if they don't detect flash Oct 27 15:25:25 they'll serve those up instead Oct 27 15:25:27 i just like to sww the NWS radar loops when storms are coming Oct 27 15:25:36 s/sww/see/ Oct 27 15:25:37 Death_Syn meant: i just like to see the NWS radar loops when storms are coming Oct 27 15:25:38 ..try reading imap email with it, you'll quickly discover it never saves changes to the server. (well, it saves some read/unread changes, seemingly randomly. it never ever saves deleted state tho.) Oct 27 15:25:49 haha nice Oct 27 15:26:18 and wifi on it is a mess at best - sometimes it'll stay connected for as much as 15 mins. generally it drops within 2-4 mins (or 5-10 seconds if you have the tmob hotspot finder app installed..) Oct 27 15:26:37 Disconnect: i haven't been able to try that yet, as my imap box is using a self-signed cert, so the mail app won't even attempt to authenticate to it Oct 27 15:26:44 and random side note, word from tmob is that the upcoming update may/will wipe out all "user downloaded content" Oct 27 15:26:46 Disconnect: wifi is pretty stable on the ones I've used Oct 27 15:27:07 Death_Syn: workaround: tell it "use ssl if available" (or tls if available) .. it'll accept any cert at all. (so yeah, MITM is dead simple...) Oct 27 15:27:24 Disconnect: thanks for that Oct 27 15:27:25 will try now Oct 27 15:27:29 Disconnect: funny that you're having wifi trouble Oct 27 15:27:40 I have my phone use wifi, and it never drops my AP at home Oct 27 15:27:46 anyone care to sponsor my 25 USD lol? Oct 27 15:27:54 gah this app is such a cobbled together pile of hacks Oct 27 15:28:07 pjv: is $25 such a price to give your apps to the world? Oct 27 15:28:11 Disconnect: weird because the IMAP client syncs correctly for me Oct 27 15:28:42 romainguy: I had a remotely deleted folder remain on my email/app Oct 27 15:28:43 vol: it is if I'm already developing apps in my spare time Oct 27 15:28:50 what is kind of annoying is that WEP (yes I know) will not stop after 26(?) chars Oct 27 15:28:58 My IMAP client works, but there are some quirks that are annoying...like messages that get put in the "Sent" folder are market unread...which is kinda a pain Oct 27 15:29:06 the AP at my parents house has a certain numerical constant as a key, and I never remember where to stop Oct 27 15:29:10 pjv: i wouldn't pay $25 Oct 27 15:29:18 i would write an open source app to compete :) Oct 27 15:29:24 so good luck with that one Oct 27 15:29:31 pjv: too bad the Android Market doesn't care for open source projects, I'd like to add my (free) apps, but no way I'm paying 25 USD. << this has nothing to do with Open Source Oct 27 15:29:37 and this is just a one time fee Oct 27 15:29:56 romainguy: true, but it has something to do with voluntary efforts and free apps Oct 27 15:29:57 romainguy: ..right, but you closed my bug saying there was a fixed engineering build. so you don't count. Oct 27 15:30:14 Disconnect: works Oct 27 15:30:16 Disconnect: Thanks! Oct 27 15:30:45 michaelnovakjr: I was refering to the $25 you need to get your apps on the Market (while the apps themselves are free and open source) Oct 27 15:30:51 when do the paid apps com to the android market? Oct 27 15:30:56 ah Oct 27 15:31:07 pjv: again, it's a one time fee Oct 27 15:31:09 at least you can release on your own Oct 27 15:31:15 hmm, why doesn't someone just start an account on the Market and just publish OSS apps for other users (by request) Oct 27 15:31:25 is that against the terms? Oct 27 15:31:36 the fee is here as a protection Oct 27 15:31:44 zhobbs: i like that idea Oct 27 15:31:48 against spamming, and also to discourage people from putting malicious apps Oct 27 15:31:56 problem is finding someone to trust Oct 27 15:32:01 umdk1d3: exactly Oct 27 15:32:20 umdk1d3: what do you mean? Oct 27 15:32:36 $25 isn't much really, plus it should help keep the riff raff out ;P Oct 27 15:32:38 they could decide to remove your opensource app for some random reason Oct 27 15:32:49 romainguy: i don't think $25 would discourage the malicious apps Oct 27 15:32:49 personal grudge Oct 27 15:33:11 michaelnovakjr: well... with these $25 they have your contact information Oct 27 15:33:16 so they know who you are (more or less) Oct 27 15:33:18 michaelnovakjr: I do, because they get removed from the Market and have to pay $25 to repost it with a different gmail account Oct 27 15:34:03 i guess Oct 27 15:34:10 the only danger to the Market would be flooding or malicious stuff, but it should be solved in a non-economic way (especially in these harsh times ;-)) Oct 27 15:34:18 just sucks someone who plans on releasing free software has to pay themselves Oct 27 15:34:22 pjv: it's a *one time* fee :) Oct 27 15:34:23 even apple doesn't do that :) Oct 27 15:34:28 er yes they do Oct 27 15:34:32 you have to pay $99 a year Oct 27 15:34:34 for the sdk Oct 27 15:34:46 but free apps don't get charged in the store Oct 27 15:34:48 no, for App Store publication Oct 27 15:34:51 like paid ones do Oct 27 15:34:51 anyone know why the weather channel app requests all those permissions? it's kinda ridiculous Oct 27 15:34:55 how does YouTube stop this? rating and reporting system? Oct 27 15:35:07 michaelnovakjr: I believe you still have to pay the $99 a year Oct 27 15:35:26 true Oct 27 15:35:29 michaelnovakjr i think you are missing the point Oct 27 15:35:52 luckily you can download from external sources on android :) Oct 27 15:36:05 anyway, handling these dangers is exactly where third parties, such as helloandroid.com, come in, to do reviews on software and seperate the good from the ugly Oct 27 15:36:31 pjv: that's also the role of the ratings + comments on Market Oct 27 15:36:31 what stops someone from writing a bunch of fake reviews ala e-bay Oct 27 15:36:47 Surely one of the key benefits of charging developers on their credit card is that it creates a much stronger trail back to the developer. Oct 27 15:36:49 * jt436 would trust the market before a 3rd party site Oct 27 15:36:55 you can write only one review per Market account Oct 27 15:37:02 and it has to be done from the Market app Oct 27 15:37:07 which means you need one phone per account Oct 27 15:37:16 romainguy: I meant on 3rd party sites Oct 27 15:37:18 tomgibara: exactly Oct 27 15:37:20 jt436: ah yes :) Oct 27 15:38:13 but why $25 if you want a trail? Oct 27 15:38:14 fwiw $5 would resolve it just as much as $25.. Oct 27 15:38:16 anyone know is an irc client is released yet? Oct 27 15:38:18 there's also a huge difference between not paying and paying $0.01 for me, I'm a European and I DONT pay by credit card or any other system online as a general precaution, and many other Europeans feel the same way Oct 27 15:38:43 ringdriod is pretty nice Oct 27 15:38:44 That's stupid Oct 27 15:38:46 pjv: ...how do you buy things? Oct 27 15:38:51 pjv: Always in person with cash? Oct 27 15:38:59 at least by US standards. You're legally protected when you use credit cards Oct 27 15:39:16 I'm a European and I've been using credit cards on the web for 10 years, never had an issue Oct 27 15:39:27 zhobbs ringdriod ? Oct 27 15:39:30 and like tmccrary, you're protected by the banks (at least good banks :) Oct 27 15:39:43 yeah, lol Oct 27 15:39:46 anyway, off to work Oct 27 15:39:58 there are different electronic systems here, as well as online shops I know I can trust because I can visit them physically Oct 27 15:40:06 Delvien_: ringdroid, a new app in the market...lets you cut up songs into ringtones Oct 27 15:40:26 oh i dont see it... weird Oct 27 15:40:46 guess i wont be putting up my freeware apps to the market then Oct 27 15:41:24 I can only guess that some calculation was made along the lines of: x developers out of y will cause us trouble, each costing us z, so we charge developers z*x/y to cover ourselves, then round it off to a nice number. Oct 27 15:41:32 who was asking about my out-of-storage errors on fri? just got another one, gonna blow away browser cache and see if it resolves (again) Oct 27 15:41:49 P4PORT=perforce9.corp.google.com:9666 Oct 27 15:41:49 P4CLIENT=sandroid-perforce-sucks Oct 27 15:41:49 P4PASSWD=logic101 Oct 27 15:41:50 I cant afford to pay to give away things Oct 27 15:41:53 oh haha Oct 27 15:41:59 * SanMehat changes his p4 password. Oct 27 15:42:09 haha Oct 27 15:42:11 uh oh Oct 27 15:42:13 * morrildl slaps SanMehat around with a tuna. Oct 27 15:42:18 omg they make you pay Oct 27 15:42:21 lol Oct 27 15:42:23 how free and open!!!!!!!!1 Oct 27 15:42:23 SanMehat: Way to go! Oct 27 15:42:26 morrildl: this is why i shouldnt use linux cut/paste Oct 27 15:42:33 SanMehat: That is a true statement. Oct 27 15:42:54 * SanMehat gets todays newb-award Oct 27 15:42:58 SanMehat++ Oct 27 15:43:00 haha Oct 27 15:43:09 congradulations SanMehat~ Oct 27 15:43:10 you guys think i should defrag too? :) Oct 27 15:43:20 rooooofl @ SanMehat Oct 27 15:43:32 SanMehat: better pull out the cartridge and blow on it to get the dust out Oct 27 15:43:46 morrildl: shit i didnt rewind the tape! Oct 27 15:44:02 cut me some slack... i'm technicaly on vacation... :) Oct 27 15:44:09 SanMehat: remember, the button thingies on the phone don't move around in circles anymore when you dial Oct 27 15:44:10 SanMehat: heh Oct 27 15:44:13 weird twitdroid is installed twice. Oct 27 15:46:56 Disconnect: i am seeing that w/ an app i installed this AM Oct 27 15:47:17 i think its handled differently if you install from marketplace - looks like it reinstalls it even though it says it is upgrading Oct 27 15:48:13 Disconnect: it should be based on the cert Oct 27 15:48:22 Disconnect: same cert it should upgrade Oct 27 15:48:30 yah well Oct 27 15:48:50 it says its gonna upgrade, then i found it 2x in my "you are out of space" app management list Oct 27 15:49:06 ok I paid my $25, even though I have no app to distribute. holla Oct 27 15:49:31 wow apps are pouring into market place this morning. too bad the phone is so underpowered in the storage arena Oct 27 15:49:46 Disconnect: storage is cheap Oct 27 15:49:47 maybe tommorow. are people charging for apps or is that 2 months down the road? Oct 27 15:50:01 you have to pay $25 even for open source apps? Oct 27 15:50:11 what's with the GOOG bringing out Earth for iPhone and not showing Android the love first? Oct 27 15:50:11 fucking greedy google Oct 27 15:50:11 davidw: to distribute in market yes. Oct 27 15:50:19 unix_lappy: yep. now tell me how to install apps to my 4g microsd and i'll stop bitching about the onboard storage being rediculously small. Oct 27 15:50:24 owe Oct 27 15:50:25 yeah, its more of a "you must be this tall to ride" thing Oct 27 15:50:28 owch Oct 27 15:50:35 25$ is not a lot of money by any standards Oct 27 15:50:37 ouch...something like that...damn flu Oct 27 15:50:39 whats the big deal, just put it on a code.google.com/webpage Oct 27 15:51:09 gambler: your audience will be 0.001% of what it would be in the market Oct 27 15:51:28 wtf Oct 27 15:51:38 plusminus_, ah i gotcha...the installer only works with the market Oct 27 15:51:42 tmccrary, well, no, but if the app is free, then the ratio of 25 dollars to the money you make on it... doesn't really compute Oct 27 15:51:49 Google accepted "Ringdroid" even though it specifically says "DO NOT USE ANDROID/DROID IN YOUR APP NAME" on the guidelines page Oct 27 15:51:59 * gambler no phone here yet :( Oct 27 15:52:01 davidw: wah wah, cry me a river. It's 25$ bucks Oct 27 15:52:26 tmccrary, why don't you pay for me, then? Oct 27 15:52:32 lol Oct 27 15:52:36 yeah Oct 27 15:52:36 What's your app do? Oct 27 15:52:38 tmccrary: /me is tired of apps with "Droid" in the name or the Android as part of their logo. Oct 27 15:52:43 if $25 is too much just post your app on a website and have people d/l it there Oct 27 15:52:51 if its worthwhile, I will pay for you Oct 27 15:52:57 davidw: mayeb you can get VC funding... Oct 27 15:52:58 if it is great and takes off someone will put up the $25 Oct 27 15:53:18 * davidw is thinking of putting Hecl there eventually, but not in its present state. Oct 27 15:53:24 i will pay for a vnc or ic client for android Oct 27 15:53:24 What no response Oct 27 15:53:29 irc* Oct 27 15:53:35 it's more the feeling of giving $25 to a company that rakes in billions every quarter Oct 27 15:53:48 Is it because it's Dr. Habloou's Magical Spam Engine? Oct 27 15:53:57 tmccrary, no, it's a scripting engine Oct 27 15:54:07 Why would that be on the market place? Oct 27 15:54:08 davidw: they claim to be making no money from the Market Oct 27 15:54:14 The carrier makes money Oct 27 15:54:19 davidw: even with paid apps Oct 27 15:54:20 The $25 is not about the revenue, it's to reduce the flood to something manageable. Oct 27 15:54:26 30% goes to the carrier, 70% to the developer Oct 27 15:54:29 andyross: $5 would do the same thing Oct 27 15:54:50 andyross, sure, that's sensible. I'm not sure how they ought to manage it. It's just annoying Oct 27 15:54:51 isnt there some sort of cost associated with processing keys? Oct 27 15:54:54 True, and be about the same impact to most developers. Is there someone here for whom $5 is acceptable but $25 is not? Oct 27 15:55:17 if 10,000 people sign up that'll cover romainguy's salary! Oct 27 15:55:17 andyross: 20 bucks buys lunch for the week. Oct 27 15:55:19 30% juice on apps? wow Oct 27 15:55:34 but no, you are correct, it's negligble. Oct 27 15:55:36 davidw: I'm guessing that you're developing on linux then, using a PC that you stole or something. ;) Oct 27 15:55:45 andyross: most free app builders would be more willing to set $5 on fire than $25 Oct 27 15:55:49 tmccrary, where did you get that number 30%/70% Oct 27 15:55:51 marcone, I develop on Ubuntu, on a Dell that I paid for. Oct 27 15:55:54 wait Oct 27 15:56:02 to upload an app to the market you have to pay 25$? Oct 27 15:56:03 $5 is most of a happy meal. $25 is lunch for a week. Oct 27 15:56:06 eventhough tey're free to download Oct 27 15:56:08 davidw: but Dell rakes in billions! Oct 27 15:56:16 $25 one-time developer registration free Oct 27 15:56:19 s/free/fee/ Oct 27 15:56:19 fadden0 meant: $25 one-time developer registration fee Oct 27 15:56:21 marcone, well I actually got something from them that I can resell. Oct 27 15:56:29 oh Oct 27 15:56:37 Not $25 per free app Oct 27 15:56:38 Most free app builders, to be honest, have day jobs that make that kind of cash noise. This is surely not true for everyone, but even in the developing world a coder should be able to front $25 to get their apps on the market. Oct 27 15:56:58 $25 is the cost of a budget videogame Oct 27 15:57:06 it's a blip in your income Oct 27 15:57:20 andyross, yeah, so can I, it's just annoying in some way, since I don't plan on doing applications that aren't open source. Oct 27 15:57:20 if you're a student living on a fixed income, maybe it's a big deel Oct 27 15:57:20 wow, lots of cool apps already Oct 27 15:57:22 *deal Oct 27 15:57:25 andyross: ..which is evidently not true, given the number of people who stated flat out they weren't listing on marketplace because of the $25 fee (i caught 3 in under an hour in this channel alone) Oct 27 15:57:42 damnit map seems not to show up with many using AndNav :/ Oct 27 15:57:48 can anyone conform that? Oct 27 15:57:57 davidw: that computer you bought lost 20% of its value when it arrived at your door, and will have lost 90% of its value by the time you resell it. Like it or not, you gave Dell a lot more than $25, that you'll never get back. Oct 27 15:58:02 Disconnect: because they can't afford it or because they object to having to pay anything? Oct 27 15:58:18 I'm not sure how that is inconsistent with my point: the presumed purpose of the $25 is to do exactly that, and limit the market to people who truly want their apps listed there, and are willing to do the polishing and jump through the hoops to make that happen. Oct 27 15:58:32 marcone, no, I wont' get it back, but I get a lot of value out of it. What value do I get in paying $25 to give something away for free? Oct 27 15:58:43 So, you're paying Google a little to help them maintain the Market. It's not a big deal. You're still allowed to distribute your apps yourself, and the phones will accept them if "Unknown sources" is enabled. *That* is why Android is "open". Oct 27 15:58:43 davidw: warm fuzzies? Oct 27 15:58:47 fadden0: i saw one person say "because its money in any amount" and 2 say "$25 for free apps is nuts, screw that".. Oct 27 15:59:00 davidw: warm fuzzies and undying admiration, assuming your apps are any good :) Oct 27 15:59:02 In any event, unlike some other developer programs, the SDK is free and you aren't required to use the marketplace. Oct 27 15:59:25 ttuttle: when other market apps can have the same install/management access that google's store does, then you can argue that app installation is 'open' Oct 27 15:59:29 * davidw is accepting $10 applications to hack on Hecl. You will get warm fuzzies out of it. I'll send you a picture of my cute daughter or something. Oct 27 15:59:43 you're basically paying $25 to get mainstream access to your app Oct 27 15:59:45 but anyway, yeah it sucks that you have to pay $25. Keeps out the riffraff though. The market would be flooded with crap if there wasn't *some* barrier to entry. Oct 27 15:59:45 I love the yellowbook, I was hoping this would show up soon Oct 27 15:59:45 until then its very much like iphone. you can jailbreak and go through extra hoops to install apps, or you can use the store they support... Oct 27 15:59:46 fadden, which is why I'm here in the first place Oct 27 15:59:51 * andyross will play with Nasal for $9. Give it to me, not him! Oct 27 15:59:56 marcone, yeah, that's true too Oct 27 15:59:59 (with a warranty-violation difference of course) Oct 27 16:00:09 Disconnect: you're kidding, right? Installing apps is as simple as pointing your browser to an apk Oct 27 16:00:15 on the iphone, you have to jump through hoops Oct 27 16:00:18 yeah and "jailbreak" meaning, click check box Oct 27 16:00:28 marcone, it make sense... but hey, I have the flu and am grumpy anyway, so I thought I'd bitch about it. Oct 27 16:00:34 you pretty much have to have some technical skill to jailbreak your iphone Oct 27 16:00:35 its less of a jailbreak and more of a safety feature for morons Oct 27 16:00:36 which the OS redirects you to if it's not already checked Oct 27 16:00:42 like how firefox won't install extensions Oct 27 16:00:47 vol: and then downloading. and then long-click the download and click open (oops, if you click 'clear from list' right next to open go back to step one) and click 'install'... Oct 27 16:00:57 I don't even long click Oct 27 16:00:59 I just click it, once. Oct 27 16:01:00 vol: thats hardly a level playing field with "open marketplace, click app, click install" Oct 27 16:01:10 its a safety feature Oct 27 16:01:11 Disconnect: Yes. You're paying for marketing. Oct 27 16:01:20 This is seriously as difficult as me downloading a binary on my home computer Oct 27 16:01:30 I can't possibly understand why you think this is incredibly difficult Oct 27 16:01:31 How about a marketplace app that acts as a loader and launcher for free software apps? Then hook up a apt-style repository and go. Oct 27 16:01:38 vol: i'm not saying its impossible. i'm saying its not a level playing field. Oct 27 16:01:39 andyross: Someone could do that. Oct 27 16:01:52 Disconnect: It's much less slanted than most, though. Oct 27 16:01:58 ...so? Oct 27 16:02:06 Disconnect: Point browser to url, click "install". How much more fucking level can it get? Oct 27 16:02:10 "pay $25 and your app install can be just as easy as google's" is hardly "open".. Oct 27 16:02:15 Disconnect: No, it is open Oct 27 16:02:20 Disconnect: It's just not free as in beer. Oct 27 16:02:29 so slideme didn't get into market Oct 27 16:02:36 more like "pay $25 and people might download your app since it's probably not 'hello world' or some useless broken app" Oct 27 16:02:40 Disconnect: Anyone can do it, they're just charging for distribution. Oct 27 16:02:44 Disconnect, it's definitely open. You get the source code and everything. Oct 27 16:02:46 restricted apis for google marketplace use alone isn't open. Oct 27 16:02:56 Disconnect: What are you *talking* about? Oct 27 16:03:11 I believe he's referring to the stuff that prevents viruses from being installed by rogue web pages. Oct 27 16:03:24 Disconnect: Do you really want other people's apps to be able to install apps? Oct 27 16:03:25 Disconnect, you could recompile the whole thing and sell it to carriers, with the DisconnectedMarketplace embedded in it Oct 27 16:03:54 Disconnect: do you refuse to load non-foss video drivers just on principle? Oct 27 16:04:03 vol: Oh god, not this again. :sob: Oct 27 16:04:12 There's a balance between "open" and "secure", which is why there's no path to root access on production phones. Oct 27 16:04:22 fadden0: /me likes his eng build ;-) Oct 27 16:04:34 ttuttle: so would 90% of the people here Oct 27 16:04:35 vol: no, and i've never advocated that either. (for that matter, if you check history, you'll see me being the -first- to laugh at the "i'm a free human" dumbass that was here last week..) Oct 27 16:04:56 fadden0: heh Oct 27 16:04:59 this is pretty annoying: http://groups.google.com/group/android-discuss/browse_thread/thread/5d860ced0d1c4ffb Oct 27 16:05:05 fadden0: To be fair, locking down root is not the only path to security. A proper authentication regime can do the same thing. Oct 27 16:05:11 fadden0: Will they be available anywhere? Oct 27 16:05:43 yet, you're saying that because google refuses to place your app on a silver platter to t-mobile customers, that they are restricting you? Oct 27 16:05:45 * Disconnect is looking for the info on the api problem i was talking about Oct 27 16:06:12 zhobbs: yeah, if they let in slideme, then the 25$ thing would be mute Oct 27 16:06:19 what might be nice is some kind of 'open source program' Oct 27 16:06:22 zhobbs, are you for SlideME or Google? Oct 27 16:06:24 andyross: the UNIX access permissions is the simplest path, which for security is a really nice property. Oct 27 16:06:37 seems fair that google included that provision Oct 27 16:06:47 I'd even register my credit card or pay a dollar or something to prove that I'm real Oct 27 16:06:52 SlideME needs to pay for their own advertising Oct 27 16:06:53 according to the market-tos, Slideme is kinda forbidden Oct 27 16:07:00 What is SlideME? Oct 27 16:07:07 here we are. http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/10/23/android_limitations/ Oct 27 16:07:15 it was like "no apps that target ..." let me check for a quote... Oct 27 16:07:22 tethridge: I expected SlideME to be able to be on the Market Oct 27 16:07:25 fadden0: Yes yes, but it disallows things that should be acceptable, like "root developer access my on hardware". I'm not shocked that you guys didn't want to do the engineering work to make that happen. I just want to be sure no one is pretending that root *must* be locked down. Oct 27 16:07:41 davidw: Scripting libraries have no place on the market Oct 27 16:07:53 seems to be a marketing issue Oct 27 16:08:01 4.5 Non-Compete. You may not use the Market to distribute or make available any Product whose primary purpose is to facilitate the distribution of Products outside of the Market. Oct 27 16:08:02 andyross: There is simply no way to allow a user to enable root access on their phone without allowing apps to trick them into doing it. Oct 27 16:08:16 tmccrary, I'm not convinced of that... if done right, there might be room for it. It's not ready yet, though. Oct 27 16:08:21 Shane won"t like to hear that :/ Oct 27 16:08:21 they aren't saying you can't use slideme, they just aren't going to allow a competing market to be in the default google market Oct 27 16:08:28 davidw: nope Oct 27 16:08:37 tethridge: makes sense to me Oct 27 16:08:38 davidw: its a developer thing.... not something for the market Oct 27 16:08:44 plusminus_: he already posted about it Oct 27 16:08:45 if slideme is really good, I'll have it on my phone Oct 27 16:09:07 tethridge: not sure why it shouldn't be on the Market Oct 27 16:09:16 zhobbs: kk Oct 27 16:09:32 zhobbs, my guess because of the phone companies Oct 27 16:09:34 ttuttle: True, but only in a pedantic sense. Think of an architecture where the root login server or whatnot takes a signed key that the user has to get from google with a signed application key, or a market account. Certainly *that* is not something that an average user on the street could be tricked into doing. Again: I'm *fine* that you didn't do it. Just don't blow smoke up our butts and pretend that it's impossible. Oct 27 16:09:38 remember most of the money goes to them Oct 27 16:09:52 they don't want a competitor taking "their"money Oct 27 16:10:03 andyross: It's just a huge risk that can be avoided by simply not allowing root access. Oct 27 16:10:13 tethridge: yeah, that's true I guess Oct 27 16:10:17 Smoke. Meh. Oct 27 16:10:20 ...because it wouldn't be IRC without somebody complaining about those darn money-grubbing corporations. :-) Oct 27 16:11:08 ttuttle: explain how to get vpn access (something 90% of the smartphones out there can do, for 1 or more vpn types) without root access on linux? Oct 27 16:11:26 Disconnect: You can't. That should be an OS service. Oct 27 16:11:31 Disconnect: VPN access *into* your phone? Oct 27 16:11:35 Disconnect: I don't think that's something that a third-party app *should* be able to do. Oct 27 16:11:41 fadden0, well... it's not like those darn money grubbing corporations don't do their best to get the deals that are best for *them*, so I'll do likewise;-) Oct 27 16:11:44 fadden0: No, a VPN client on the phone, to access a corporate network. Oct 27 16:11:49 fadden0: wtf would my phone run a vpn server? Oct 27 16:12:03 Disconnect: Don't ask. Oct 27 16:12:03 He means using the phone as a modem. And yeah, that's a pretty useful feature. Although you could come really close with a phone-based SOCKS server or HTTP proxy. Oct 27 16:12:05 * davidw is actually really happy to get a good, free mobile phone system under a liberal license Oct 27 16:12:06 Disconnect: Someone may. Oct 27 16:12:07 ..ok didn't mean for that to be quite as harsh as it came out :) sorry Oct 27 16:12:12 davidw++ Oct 27 16:12:21 davidw: seems fair :-) Oct 27 16:13:06 Disconnect: we've got people wanting to run gcc and gnome-terminal on the phone. I've learned not to make assumptions. :) Oct 27 16:13:38 (lunch, bbl) Oct 27 16:13:40 fadden0: TBH, I want a better terminal and a good ssh client. Oct 27 16:14:21 speaking of ssh Oct 27 16:14:35 sshing takes like 10% battery per 10 minutes Oct 27 16:14:37 argh Oct 27 16:14:50 ttuttle: have you tried ConnectBot? Oct 27 16:14:52 It must be keeping the radio alive. Oct 27 16:14:56 also, is there a way to emulate ctrl or alt with connectbot? Oct 27 16:15:09 vol: press the trackball Oct 27 16:15:20 new set of yummy changes in latest svn ^.^ Oct 27 16:15:22 orly Oct 27 16:15:41 working "copy", camera does ctrl+a spacebar (for screen) Oct 27 16:15:59 also, right alt is "/" and right shift is "tab" which makes dir structure traversing TONS easeier :) Oct 27 16:16:23 umdk1d3: Maybe document that somewhere in the app? :) Oct 27 16:16:42 andyross: yea will get there someday ;) Oct 27 16:17:06 ha, ok, that works Oct 27 16:17:15 so that emulates ctrl, how do you emulate alt? Oct 27 16:17:30 zhobbs: how is it? Oct 27 16:18:32 * ttuttle really wishes the G1 had a real Ctrl key. Oct 27 16:18:43 ttuttle: ConnectBot is nice Oct 27 16:19:10 ttuttle: vol says it kills batteries, but I haven't used it that much Oct 27 16:19:32 well, it does have a wakelock, but thats configurable in settings now Oct 27 16:19:40 battery life on the G1 is pretty sad as it is Oct 27 16:19:50 it murders the battery Oct 27 16:19:54 because of constant radio and processor use Oct 27 16:19:55 It's trying to download it to the SD card :-\ Oct 27 16:20:02 well, ok, maybe it's because I'm using irssi :\ Oct 27 16:20:02 That means it's not going to install correctly, I think. Oct 27 16:20:09 via ssh Oct 27 16:20:14 vol: me too Oct 27 16:20:17 zhobbs: fyi they seem to ship with terrible battery calibration- much better if you retrain it (drain it till it won't turn on, then power it at least 8 hours straight) Oct 27 16:20:23 then it goes from terrible to not-great Oct 27 16:20:25 FWIW: why would an ssh connection be constantly using the radio or processor? An idle connection is idle. There's no ping or keepalive in the protocol. Oct 27 16:20:41 does the platform do any wifi powersaving? Oct 27 16:20:52 there is keepalive in ssh (NOOP), but that's typically tuneable Oct 27 16:20:54 So, /me just installed a third-party app. Oct 27 16:20:59 It was a fucking piece of cake. Oct 27 16:21:11 3rd party apps on android have been easy as pie so far Oct 27 16:21:11 Click link, wait, click "Install", click "Launch". Oct 27 16:21:28 Death_Syn: OK, maybe I spoke to strongly. Certainly I know that a production sshd/ssh connection transfers no data under idle conditions. Oct 27 16:21:30 WHY ARE THEY USING THE GPL3 AS A CLICKTHROUGH LICENSE?! Oct 27 16:21:34 ttuttle: my point is simply that google has reserved api's for marketplace that other apps can't use Oct 27 16:21:34 Disconnect: I'll try that. Oct 27 16:21:39 GPL is NOT a EULA, it's a distribution license! Oct 27 16:21:42 ssh. Oct 27 16:21:44 ttuttle: hmm? Oct 27 16:21:44 ttuttle: yah thats amusing, lots of apps do that :) Oct 27 16:21:51 where did it say that it was a eula? Oct 27 16:21:55 * ttuttle is REALLY tired of clickthrough EULAs. Oct 27 16:21:57 ttuttle: the warranty considerations are good to have Oct 27 16:22:00 umdk1d3: I shouldn't have to click through it. Oct 27 16:22:01 it's ok, ttuttle. it's magical "oh jesus don't sue me" magic. Oct 27 16:22:04 Death_Syn: Put it in the about box. Oct 27 16:22:10 vol: /me is tired of that. Oct 27 16:23:12 ttuttle is right, the GPL is not a click-through. It's power doesn't require affirmative response or agreement from the user. (It *is*, however, the license under which the end user receives it though, so technically it should be included somewhere in the app I guess). Oct 27 16:23:26 ooh, connectbot scrolling is buggy Oct 27 16:23:52 even the kill-switch qualifies - what if slideme distributes the same bad app that google did? google can kill marketplace-installed versions, but slideme can't (and if google kills slideme/3rd party installs, thats a huge can of worms..) Oct 27 16:23:52 irssi + screen + multiline messages scrolls too far Oct 27 16:24:31 yeah, this is buggy :-\ Oct 27 16:24:45 (and i'm just picking on slideme because they're the only ones - so far, afaik - to do a marketplace-style app) Oct 27 16:25:09 Disconnect: that's not really true, SlideME has permissions to uninstall applications right? Oct 27 16:25:28 not w/o user interaction Oct 27 16:25:53 oh ok Oct 27 16:26:08 ttuttle: how are you scrolling? Oct 27 16:26:10 its one thing for google apps to be special ala gmail (closed app using proprietary server-side apis) .. its another for an app to have proprietary access to the "open" platform Oct 27 16:26:18 remember, left half of screen does pgup/pgdn Oct 27 16:26:40 ... remember? How would we ever know? Dude, seriously: please document this stuff. :) Oct 27 16:26:55 andyross: that one /was/ documented in the tips screen :p Oct 27 16:27:09 umdk1d3: i mean the scrolling irssi does when messages arrive Oct 27 16:27:23 umdk1d3: it leaves extra blank lines. Oct 27 16:27:30 ttuttle: yes it does Oct 27 16:27:32 * waldo_ is back (gone 05:50:37) Oct 27 16:27:36 thats because you havent fixed terminal emulation yet :P Oct 27 16:27:59 umdk1d3: what should i set it to? Oct 27 16:28:23 ...the terminla emulation lib were using is broken? sooooo you cant? Oct 27 16:28:32 *you cant set it to anything to fix it Oct 27 16:29:13 Did someone say a while back that they were working on a file viewer? Oct 27 16:29:16 damnit all Oct 27 16:29:39 not happy? Oct 27 16:29:41 my home computer is broken, PSU burned up Oct 27 16:29:42 umdk1d3: oh, i thought you meant i had to set TERM to something else. Oct 27 16:29:55 hence the new irc handle? Oct 27 16:30:01 and my freaking email hacks had 1 tiny stupid typo that i need to fix to make push e-mail work again Oct 27 16:30:02 * ttuttle would like to see a fix :-( Oct 27 16:30:23 but i cant fix and rebuild because the source so far is only on my home computer Oct 27 16:30:26 *sigh* Oct 27 16:30:32 your welcome to fix it ;) i wrestled with it for a few solid days with no progress Oct 27 16:30:40 its a very cryptic, almost magic library Oct 27 16:32:08 * andyross is routinely amazed that terminal emulation seems to be such a hard problem. The original VT-100 ran in 4k or ROM on an 8085. Hell, you could emulate that CPU on the phone and still have cycles to spare.. Oct 27 16:33:17 andyross: almost everything works Oct 27 16:33:28 there are some ansi sequences for settings "scrolling" windows Oct 27 16:33:34 and thats whats slightly broken Oct 27 16:33:48 i always got error on page when i try upload, anyone else got same problem? Oct 27 16:33:49 andyross: those terminals didn't have widnow scroll and such Oct 27 16:33:54 You'd have to go to VT-220 for that Oct 27 16:33:56 andyross: the issue isn't the complexity of the systems that run it, its the poor implementation and specification of the standard Oct 27 16:33:59 Yes yes. It wasn't the "broken" I was referring to. It was the idea that a terminal emulators require "cryptic, almost magic" code. Oct 27 16:34:11 jasta: exactly, there are dozens of quirks Oct 27 16:34:34 this is no different than implementing any other major protocol like HTTP -- you would not believe how many quirks and broken behaviour you need to handle. Oct 27 16:34:37 However, you could always emulate VT-52, which is insanely simple. That's enough for more things though Oct 27 16:35:32 sigh, i'm really disappointed that some trivial problem and a broken home machine is preventing me from having a good real world test of my IMAP IDLE code Oct 27 16:36:09 umdk1d3: my convert script which swapped the package namespace so i could load it on the phone accidentally munged the name of an Intent action, so basically the service never sends keepalives to the idling connection and it just dies Oct 27 16:36:45 but the code actually works just fine, it's just some stupid intent changed to com.android.exmail.CHECK_MAIL :) Oct 27 16:36:55 *grumble* Oct 27 16:36:56 ouch lol Oct 27 16:37:07 if my home machine was up i'd just fix/rebuild/deploy :( Oct 27 16:37:32 * waldo_ is away: auto-away Oct 27 16:37:39 i wonder if theres a git-friendly way to handle this actually Oct 27 16:37:40 hello everyone, is there a channel that is about the G1 device? I have questions regarding others who have ordered and received the device... Oct 27 16:37:49 so i can commit around in my local repo that i have access to from other machines Oct 27 16:37:55 without uploading to google Oct 27 16:37:57 * jasta researches Oct 27 16:38:17 jasta Oct 27 16:38:19 mkitzman: searching t-mobile forums might be your best bet, but we can try to help regardless. Oct 27 16:38:21 you can commit locally Oct 27 16:38:29 "Upload a valid APK." what does this means? my apk should works fine Oct 27 16:38:34 michaelnovakjr: well right, but that commits only to that local tree on my machine Oct 27 16:38:43 jasta: afaik thats similar to the kernel workflow - local devs commit locally, then subsystem maintainers (or others) pull it in, eventually it gets pulled or pushed into the master repo (google, in this case) Oct 27 16:38:46 you can add other remote servers jasta Oct 27 16:38:48 hmmm .. anybody been able to setup the G1 to work with an Exchange Webmail server? Oct 27 16:38:51 i have two Oct 27 16:39:14 jasta: Thank you, I have ordered the G1 but want to find out about its status, because I have not received any Oct 27 16:39:22 mkitzman: call T-Mobile Oct 27 16:39:25 You need to call t-mobile. Oct 27 16:39:45 I am getting my G1 replaced because the Accelerometer/Compass package is broken :P Oct 27 16:39:45 ..why would random internet people know the status of your order? Oct 27 16:40:18 Disconnect, well, sometimes jasta acts like he knows *everything* ;-P Oct 27 16:40:21 sooo .. anybody been able to setup the G1 to work with an Exchange Webmail server? Oct 27 16:40:22 lol Oct 27 16:40:37 DJTachyon: not yet Oct 27 16:40:38 jasta: I have and they say that it is coming and should be able to track it... Oct 27 16:40:40 DJTachyon: you should ask again, its only been about 60 seconds - thats -way- too long Oct 27 16:40:43 hey dims Oct 27 16:40:44 :P Oct 27 16:40:53 doesn't exchange offer impa? Oct 27 16:40:55 imap, even Oct 27 16:40:56 compass goes crazy if you have a magnetic case Oct 27 16:40:57 yes Oct 27 16:41:00 davidw, hi! Oct 27 16:41:04 but if you want push..... Oct 27 16:41:07 mkitzman: did you try UPS tracking? Put your mobile # in as the tracking reference. There is help on this on tmo's website. Oct 27 16:41:12 wastrel: it supports imap and pop Oct 27 16:41:32 anyone got a clue why i got "Upload a valid APK." error when upload to market? the app is Localized to: --_-- and requests 0 permissions, is that ok? Oct 27 16:41:44 i thought i heard that it was possible, my company doesnt offer public servers besides the webmail Oct 27 16:41:47 is anyone working on a UPS tracking app? Oct 27 16:41:47 wub_: I did, but it couldn't find it... Oct 27 16:41:50 DJTachyon: erm, you can connect it to IMAP and I am currently working on IMAP IDLE support for this very reason Oct 27 16:41:59 mkitzman: it might not have been sent yet then. Oct 27 16:42:02 interesting Oct 27 16:42:23 i want access to the low level audio codec :P .. my program isn't possible without that Oct 27 16:42:25 mkitzman: but no one here works for tmo afiak so... you really have to talk to them to get info on your account and upgrade. Oct 27 16:42:36 wub_:Arg! Alright, thank you! Oct 27 16:43:07 mkitzman: When did you order? Oct 27 16:45:25 wub_: beginning of October Oct 27 16:45:50 I thought that people that ordered after a certain time would receive their devices Nov 10th. Oct 27 16:46:18 wub_ true Oct 27 16:46:31 Perhaps after Oct 3rd. That date is in my head for some reason. Oct 27 16:46:55 hmm, can't remember when I ordered, but I got mine on the 21st of Oct Oct 27 16:47:07 I ordered on Sept 23rd and got it on Oct 21st. Oct 27 16:47:15 wub_: I do belive so Oct 27 16:47:15 I ordered mine on launch day and had it the next day Oct 27 16:49:00 tmccary: Did you order via their web site, and where you already a customer? Oct 27 16:49:05 I got mine on the 21st Oct 27 16:49:08 was pretty happy :> Oct 27 16:49:21 mkitzman: no, I ordered at a t-mobile store and I was a sprint customer Oct 27 16:49:45 tmccrary: Interesting... Oct 27 16:52:49 The TMO store around the corner from me has a G1 on display and a giant poster in the window. One assumes they have stock. Oct 27 16:53:34 or preorder Oct 27 16:54:42 andyross: if its on display as a demo it might be in stock. if its just the mockups then they will order one for you but they aren't allowed to demo or sell them (3g vs edge) Oct 27 16:56:07 the t-mobile store by me has tons of them in stock Oct 27 16:56:13 im glad i didnt switch to t-mobile and preorder Oct 27 16:56:36 i just waited until the 22nd and ordered off the website as a new customer, had it the next day Oct 27 16:57:04 *shippishly* I pre-ordered on the day it was announced Oct 27 16:57:26 got it on 22nd, on UPS' second attempt Oct 27 16:57:38 Is this a common theme here? People with pre-orders after October 3rd, get the shaft? Oct 27 16:58:02 i am getting another one this week to replace mine. The accelerometer/compass is broken. Oct 27 16:58:06 which screen protector do people prefer? bodyguardz or smartphone experts Oct 27 16:58:37 (from store.androidcommunity.com) Oct 27 16:59:02 why do you need one? Oct 27 16:59:33 Neither, denim jean pockets are cotton, just make sure it doesn't cohabitate with any keys or coins and you can get away without a cover. My last phone went 3.5 years with only a little paint rubbed off the corners. Oct 27 16:59:56 blashblash: that whole site is "look its a bluetooth stereo headset, therefor it probably works with g1" .. half the accessories are incompatible and the others are just expensive. Oct 27 17:00:22 as far as screen/body protection i really like invisishield. got it on my e90 and my mbp, my g1 cladding is shipping soon. Oct 27 17:00:28 so you guys removed the screen protector that came on the g1 and don't use one at all Oct 27 17:00:38 yeah Oct 27 17:00:41 That's what I did Oct 27 17:00:45 I hate screen protectors Oct 27 17:00:46 the screen protector that got almost impossible to use after a few days Oct 27 17:00:48 yes Oct 27 17:00:53 thats what insurance is for anyway ;) Oct 27 17:00:55 (and if you want to do me a favor :) you purchase via my affiliate link. same price but it kicks 5% to me.) Oct 27 17:00:58 I will say, though, that I worry about the G1 screen long term. The iPhone's glass screen just feels a lot more scratch-resistant to me, although I don't have a direct comparison. Oct 27 17:00:59 I ripped that off when I realized "ugh this is impossible to see" Oct 27 17:01:18 hmm...from my other phones, scratching has been an issue...even though jean pockets are cotton Oct 27 17:01:19 * Disconnect misses the shipping protector :( pulled it off and immediately regretted it Oct 27 17:01:50 I'm sure you can get that plastic somewhere else, though. It's just a standard shipping product, no? Oct 27 17:02:07 probably, but i didn't want to ahve to cut it to size Oct 27 17:02:19 also, what was the point of the screen protector on the backside of the phone Oct 27 17:02:37 backside of the screen....over the keyboard keys Oct 27 17:03:11 blashblash: it wasn't a screen protector, it was to keep the plastic from getting marred up either during manufacturing or during shipping Oct 27 17:03:22 same as the 800 orange tags inside a new laser printer Oct 27 17:03:29 gotcha Oct 27 17:03:32 (for that matter, so is the one on the screen but..) Oct 27 17:03:53 oh, so is a screen protector not going to be a thin? Oct 27 17:04:04 i like the thinness of the one which shipped on the front Oct 27 17:04:18 hey , anyone else or just me stuck when uploading? Oct 27 17:04:37 not me. Oct 27 17:05:57 is "Localized to: --_--" and "This apk requests 0 permissions that users will be warned about" ok? Oct 27 17:06:07 * Disconnect forgot to post the link - http://www.anrdoezrs.net/click-3061875-10542639 .. leads to zagg.com, same price as going direct but i get a kick. Oct 27 17:06:17 or they are error message? Oct 27 17:06:23 localized to a *sleeping owl*? :P Oct 27 17:06:46 ye, that's what google gives me -_- Oct 27 17:06:52 lol Oct 27 17:06:56 Hongbo: yep it should be fine Oct 27 17:07:21 thanks, but i still got "upload a valid apk" error Oct 27 17:07:47 i'm still having trouble sending picture messages where pictures are automatically resized...to a Cingular customer on a razor. Oct 27 17:07:54 has anyone else experienced this Oct 27 17:08:17 i wonder if the picture is not getting resized small enough Oct 27 17:12:31 is there no way to delete "Saved Draft"? :S Oct 27 17:13:45 Hongbo, in gmail? Oct 27 17:15:57 in android market Oct 27 17:16:25 finnaly got it published, can any one help check for WordMate plz? :p Oct 27 17:18:44 Hongbo: I see WordMate at the top of the applications "Date" tab. Looks like it worked. Oct 27 17:19:12 anyross: Thanks! Oct 27 17:19:34 If you want a usability hint: it'd be nice to be able to grab the files from the web somewhere rather than just telling the users to stick it on the card. Oct 27 17:19:34 ohh neat, there is a ringtone cutting program on the market now Oct 27 17:19:49 Ringtone cutting on the phone? Isn't that what desktop computers are for? Oct 27 17:20:20 thats a perfect job for the phone actually Oct 27 17:20:58 textmate on android??? Oct 27 17:21:00 andyross: those lines will continue to blur heavily. Oct 27 17:22:07 how do i make a build with eclipse? or do i just use the apk in the bin folder? Oct 27 17:23:00 (apk created from run) Oct 27 17:26:57 * waldo_ is back (gone 00:49:24) Oct 27 17:28:26 damnit. got bit by the amazonmp3 bug. i doubt the song is supposed to be 400 bytes long :( Oct 27 17:29:41 Unless it was "The Sound of Silence" by Simon and Garfunkel ;) Oct 27 17:33:13 Hongbo, are you the author of wordmate? Oct 27 17:34:12 darkriftX: yes Oct 27 17:35:16 Lol Oct 27 17:35:16 http://gmailblog.blogspot.com/2008/10/sneak-peek-at-gmail-on-android.html Oct 27 17:35:36 they talk about having two email account, but never address that they can't check them both on the phone. Oct 27 17:37:17 and there doesn't seem to be a way to redownload. wow. this sucks. :( Oct 27 17:37:57 * waldo_ is away: auto-away Oct 27 17:38:07 Dougie187, i have multiple accounts on mine Oct 27 17:38:08 market troubles? Oct 27 17:38:17 windows 7 details come out tomorrow for all those in love with everything microsoft, though i don't think there are many of them in here. Oct 27 17:38:21 trashguy: with the gmail app? Oct 27 17:38:51 trashguy: or do you have one in gmail and one in email? Oct 27 17:39:00 i use the email Oct 27 17:39:03 app Oct 27 17:39:24 yeah Oct 27 17:39:44 but you can't have multiple gmail account in the gmail app Oct 27 17:40:14 i have seen that function on any other phone either :( Oct 27 17:40:26 what? Oct 27 17:40:27 blackberry only had one Oct 27 17:40:35 my cell phone has as many as you want. Oct 27 17:40:43 what fone? Oct 27 17:40:45 its a new feature in the gmail 2.0 app Oct 27 17:40:49 lol a Sanyo Katana Oct 27 17:41:00 but the 2.0 app isn't compatible with android Oct 27 17:41:03 afaik Oct 27 17:41:08 wow is there no way to redownload? can't find anything about it. stupid amazon. Oct 27 17:41:19 Disconnect, redownload what Oct 27 17:41:20 Disconnect: blame _avatar Oct 27 17:41:27 Disconnect: you can't redownload the music that screwed up? Oct 27 17:41:29 trashguy: corrupted amazon mp3s Oct 27 17:41:35 that sucks. Oct 27 17:41:42 How much are they? Oct 27 17:41:46 Dougie187: can't find a way. clicking through on the web leads to either "we can't find that order" or "sure, you can purchase another copy right here" Oct 27 17:41:48 call them Oct 27 17:41:55 they will make it right Oct 27 17:42:01 heh i tried installing the sample .apk's from the SDK and it said I would be replacing the "android systems" if I installed them Oct 27 17:42:16 I wouldnt buy anything from a phone but thats just me Oct 27 17:42:18 I accidentally ordered an album a few weeks ago and they gave me my money back Oct 27 17:42:44 tethridge: did you get to keep the album? Oct 27 17:42:45 heh Oct 27 17:43:16 FYI, if you have one click ordering disabled in amazon, clicking the buy button in the mp3 download section will still be a one click buy Oct 27 17:43:20 Dougie187, yes Oct 27 17:43:46 tethridge: that is really nice of them Oct 27 17:43:56 I wanted to test a coupon code and it just went ahead and charged me instead of giving me a chance to confirm Oct 27 17:44:13 heh Oct 27 17:44:17 I would have given it back to them. :-) Oct 27 17:44:30 you cant really give it back lol Oct 27 17:44:35 you would just delete it Oct 27 17:45:01 well i guess we all know ways to scam amazon out of some money now.. Oct 27 17:45:01 lol Oct 27 17:45:07 they answered the call pretty quickly and the amazon guy didn't give me a hard time or anything Oct 27 17:45:18 thats pretty sweet Oct 27 17:45:29 well, they have a record of it, so it will probably only work once Oct 27 17:45:34 Hongbo, are you still around? Oct 27 17:45:39 once... a year... Oct 27 17:45:39 lol Oct 27 17:45:42 tethridge: submitted a cust service req, per their faq. we'll see. but it seems like thats a really crap way to run a download service.. Oct 27 17:45:52 you probably have every so often you could pull it off though. Oct 27 17:46:03 darkriftX: yeah Oct 27 17:46:15 could you check your pm please? Oct 27 17:47:01 anyone else having an ubuntu party on thursday? Oct 27 17:47:11 lol?wtf@ Oct 27 17:47:20 ubuntu party? Oct 27 17:47:26 heh Oct 27 17:47:27 * DarkriftX will tell nobody he runs *buntu this week Oct 27 17:47:30 its when the new one comes out. Oct 27 17:47:30 does my party of one with a six pack of beer count? Oct 27 17:47:44 tethridge: thats probably what mine will be Oct 27 17:47:53 i run ubuntu only cuz wine blows in FreeBSD Oct 27 17:48:00 about 4 hours of my wife ignoring me while i play video games and reinstall my laptop. Oct 27 17:48:01 lol Oct 27 17:48:02 I can't wait to celebrate another release with broken smb browsing. Oct 27 17:48:03 ubuntu party? really? Oct 27 17:48:18 I too celebrate point releases on an operating system Oct 27 17:48:21 vol, they call them "release parties" Oct 27 17:48:26 why would you reinstall Oct 27 17:48:32 mostly by downloading the update Oct 27 17:48:37 its not even a major version upgrade Oct 27 17:48:43 restly by installing the update Oct 27 17:48:44 vol, I'm all for reasons to have a few beers Oct 27 17:48:45 trashguy: yes it is. Oct 27 17:48:48 apt-get upgade && apt-get dist-upgrade ;) Oct 27 17:48:48 no Oct 27 17:48:55 trashguy: 8.10 Oct 27 17:49:01 tethridge: You want a beer. There's your reason Oct 27 17:49:03 8.04 to 8.10 is not a major Oct 27 17:49:09 its got a lot of new features Oct 27 17:49:16 and its easy to update... see the above command Oct 27 17:49:17 and Oct 27 17:49:18 * andyross finally gets his first native program running on the G1 and cheers. Oct 27 17:49:21 plus. 8.10 comes with Samba 3.2 Oct 27 17:49:23 vol, it's trash day. have a beer. :-) Oct 27 17:49:24 trashguy: its got some nice improvements Oct 27 17:49:37 yes Oct 27 17:49:42 but if you have 8.04 Oct 27 17:49:50 you can easily update Oct 27 17:49:57 Hohlraum: it comes with samba 3.2 Oct 27 17:50:06 trashguy: i have never had good luck with that. Oct 27 17:50:10 andyross: congrats! :) Oct 27 17:50:15 every time i have done a dist-upgrade it broke everything for me. Oct 27 17:50:41 i have to much custom compiled crap to wipe systems Oct 27 17:50:44 michaelnovakjr: are you going to have an ubuntu party? Oct 27 17:50:44 lol Oct 27 17:50:54 I do dist-upgrade all the time and I don't remember a problem in the last 4 years Oct 27 17:50:54 trashguy: i don't. Oct 27 17:51:02 tethridge: lucky. Oct 27 17:51:07 Dougie187: i am! Oct 27 17:51:08 Terdhex, as well as i Oct 27 17:51:14 only 4 years because thats when I switch to ubuntu Oct 27 17:51:15 there are quite a few reports of problems with it in the fourms too. Oct 27 17:51:32 http://www.ubuntu.com/testing/810rc Oct 27 17:51:33 change log. Oct 27 17:51:43 i wish though when Oct 27 17:51:44 Dougie187: The issue isn't samba. its the hunk of crap GVFS replacement they put in that IMO the worse regression in GNOME history. Oct 27 17:51:57 i get kern updates it doesnt break my system Oct 27 17:52:18 apprently its not normal to run the server kernel on the desktop distro Oct 27 17:52:41 trashguy: isn't that why they have server distro? Oct 27 17:52:46 GVFS has been awesome for me Oct 27 17:52:49 Dougie187, yes but its my desktop Oct 27 17:52:53 and I use it with scp and smb protocols Oct 27 17:52:56 andyross: native like jni/c++/whatever? cool deal :) Oct 27 17:53:00 and i wanted to have PAE for my > 4gb ram Oct 27 17:53:22 64bit just has to many compatibility issues with EVERYTHING Oct 27 17:53:45 firefox and flash barely run in 32 as is ^^ Oct 27 17:53:48 im excite for it either way. Oct 27 17:53:54 trashguy: have you tried flash 10? Oct 27 17:53:57 No no, a single C program running from the shell at the moment. Right not it prints the environ strings. The work was all about getting the toolchain running, not actually doing anything useful. Oct 27 17:54:05 Dougie187, I have not Oct 27 17:54:08 trashguy: ..seriously? maybe you should update more than once a decade :) 64bit is nice and stable these days. flash is the only real exception and for that you can install firefox32 Oct 27 17:54:13 trashguy: it works significantly better then flash 9 Oct 27 17:54:22 trashguy: no more flash always on top either. Oct 27 17:54:35 andyross: eng build or via apk? Oct 27 17:54:41 andyross: just curious, where are you storing this binary? i couldnt find a decent writable path in /data Oct 27 17:54:48 Disconnect, i update every time there is an update Oct 27 17:54:48 Next task is to make sure I can link a working shared library. Then get it to run via JNI. Finally figure out a packaging mechanism (assets?) to ship it in the .apk. Oct 27 17:54:58 trashguy, flash 10 works great Oct 27 17:55:17 jasta: /sqlite_stmt_logs is a writable tmpfs. Presumably the media card would work too Oct 27 17:55:20 full screen and I haven't had any crashes in the past two weeks since it came out Oct 27 17:55:26 trashguy: 64bit has been stable for half of forever. Oct 27 17:55:29 andyross: media card wont work because you cant set exec Oct 27 17:55:41 Disconnect, ity is stable but there is numerous compatability issues Oct 27 17:55:51 Sorry: /sqlite_stmt_journals, not _logs Oct 27 17:56:00 trashguy: you keep saying numerous, then saying "flash and firefox" (both of which run fine in 32bit) Oct 27 17:56:06 andyross: i have gotten JNI running ona real device with the SDKs images. Oct 27 17:56:08 yea not all strings are there yet Oct 27 17:56:16 andyross: there is some HOWTO i found that demonstrates it quite nicely Oct 27 17:56:51 but i didnt have that running on the production image on the G1, so im not sure if that is helpful or not Oct 27 17:57:42 Disconnect, thats just one minor annoyance Oct 27 17:57:51 * Disconnect waits... Oct 27 17:57:53 I should look for that. I'm moving from the opposite direction: wrapping the, er, questionably integrated toolchain arguments into a script that works like gcc, then building stuff, then trying to integrate. Oct 27 17:58:19 Veritas netbackup for one does not run properly on a 64bit machine Oct 27 17:59:10 running wine and trying to get most my games to work is pita Oct 27 17:59:15 andyross: yeah i think you might be on the wrong path here... Oct 27 17:59:44 http://davanum.wordpress.com/2007/12/09/android-invoke-jni-based-methods-bridging-cc-and-java/ Oct 27 17:59:44 i just avoid 64bit since i have no need for it as of now and it yields more problems then rewards Oct 27 17:59:46 trashguy: http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?s=6b08b746af6bd34c36293ad10f180bd4&p=1502257&postcount=5 first hit on 'veritas amd64 ubuntu'.. Oct 27 18:00:21 on page 2 they talk about getting 7 to work also Oct 27 18:00:29 i got it to work Oct 27 18:00:34 on 8 Oct 27 18:00:56 but i have no need for 64 so its never an issue Oct 27 18:01:11 most software still isn't designed for 64bit anyways Oct 27 18:01:58 jasta: Note that what that example does *not* do is anything useful from the C code. The point to doing JNI integration is to get access to stuff like system calls and native libraries (OpenGL) that are already on the box. It looks like that example won't work with bionic, or maybe didn't try. Oct 27 18:02:29 using PAE lets me have 8gb of ram Oct 27 18:02:30 Y'all did find dalvik/docs/jni-tips.html right? Oct 27 18:03:00 * waldo_ is back (gone 00:25:04) Oct 27 18:04:41 fadden: Yes. It's a nice JNI primer. Didn't tell me much about the toolchain, unfortunately, so I had to do that myself by grepping commands out of a dalvikvm build. Oct 27 18:05:03 Dang it, I left perforce paths in there. Oct 27 18:05:49 See also embedded-vm-control.html in that same directory. If you're going to do JNI work, *please* enable JNI checks (i.e. -Xcheck:jni on desktop). Oct 27 18:06:18 Will do. As mentioned, I'm still a ways off from bothering with JNI. Oct 27 18:06:49 Building native stuff inside the build system is going to be much less of a struggle than doing it apart. Oct 27 18:07:26 Cloning one of the Android.mk out of a lib in "external" should do for making a shared lib. Oct 27 18:07:47 Where it gets interesting is the shared lib preload map. Oct 27 18:08:19 Preload map? That sounds like it's starting to scare me: this is ELF, right? You're not doing explicit address allocations? Oct 27 18:08:21 (build/core/prelink-linux-arm.map) Oct 27 18:08:21 14:02 < fadden> Y'all did find dalvik/docs/jni-tips.html right? Oct 27 18:08:27 Where is this? Oct 27 18:08:38 vol: open source tree Oct 27 18:08:52 Oh, prelinking. Surely that's a convenience, right? We don't *need* a global prelink allocation to work? Oct 27 18:08:56 ah\ Oct 27 18:09:02 andyross: there's some linking trickery to reduce symbol table sizes and so on Oct 27 18:09:40 Yes yes. I'm just checking that you can dlopen() an arbitrary ELF .so without having to register address space with google first. Right? Oct 27 18:09:44 I think the build system does it by default, and the loader gets irked if the preprocessing has been done but there's no table entry. Oct 27 18:10:15 andyross: yes; just trying to ensure that anybody who clones an Android.mk and builds that way is aware of the extra step. Oct 27 18:10:18 I'm having some trouble finding the best way to add a raw resource to my application. I'm using Eclipse, if that makes a difference. Anyone wanna help out? Oct 27 18:10:31 OK, cool. I'm not scared anymore :) Oct 27 18:11:35 andyross: read dalvik/docs/dexopt.html . You'll be scared all over again. :-) Oct 27 18:12:59 Oh, I get it... I need only copy my raw file into the res/raw directory. Oct 27 18:13:32 so like Oct 27 18:13:34 Hrm... does the bionic runtime linker not honor LD_LIBRARY_PATH? Is there a different mechanism? Oct 27 18:13:43 they goignt o ome out with a better battery for the g1? Oct 27 18:13:59 what's wrong with the G1's battery? Oct 27 18:14:26 trashguy: you try retraining it yet? default calibration is junk on at least most units Oct 27 18:14:31 Never mind. User error. Oct 27 18:15:05 Disconnect, I have not Oct 27 18:16:25 Disconnect, where can you do that Oct 27 18:16:49 trashguy: run it until it won't turn on at all, then charge it (uninterrupted) for 8+ hours (longer is better) Oct 27 18:17:06 Disconnect, yea i did that Oct 27 18:17:08 that'll reset the charge circuit and should add up to 50% of the capacity back.. Oct 27 18:17:42 ah then yah, thats unfortunately about the best it gets :) i suspect there is power savings that can be added int he platform but whether google will add it and - if so - when tmob will bother updating remains to be seen.. Oct 27 18:17:48 turning off 3g helps Oct 27 18:17:52 Disconnect: the store told me that one, even Oct 27 18:18:02 when i bought it Oct 27 18:18:03 trashguy: Talk to the chemists about that one. Not a software problem. :) Oct 27 18:18:23 I suspect it keeps searchign for 3g which isnt in my area ' Oct 27 18:18:35 that or im jaded by my blackberry Oct 27 18:18:38 trashguy: yah having 3g on in a non-3g area is kinda disasterous Oct 27 18:18:40 i would love an extended-size battery Oct 27 18:19:04 I'm used to carrying treos around, so its not like the size would be a problem Oct 27 18:19:14 trashguy, I'll give you $20 for your g1. :-) Oct 27 18:19:17 I will say that the size of the batter is small. My old A780's batter weighs about twice as much. So the G1 has to be that much more efficient just to break even. Oct 27 18:19:17 How do you update GeoPoint data in a OverlayItem in am ItemizedOverlay? It seems OverlayItems are immutable? Oct 27 18:19:26 lol Oct 27 18:19:27 since you want your blackberry back. Oct 27 18:19:34 i thought i checkd use only 2g networks Oct 27 18:20:10 I got 48+ hours of battery life when I turned 3G off on my phone Oct 27 18:20:17 most htc devices seem to suffer from batteries that are too small Oct 27 18:20:31 I didn't fiddle with it much during that time, just answered a few calls Oct 27 18:20:43 my friend has a dash that she has to work pretty hard to get more than a day out of Oct 27 18:20:54 keeping apps killed when she's not using them, etc Oct 27 18:20:57 and that is similar to what I would get from my blackberry 8800 Oct 27 18:21:40 i charged my blackberry once a week :/ Oct 27 18:21:43 how can i access the text messages via usb? Oct 27 18:22:29 trashguy: i've never had a phone i could do that with unless I didn't actually talk on it Oct 27 18:22:33 so .. since there is no root access.. is there any way to write a backup/restore app? or is that something else android users are expected to do without in exchange for security? Oct 27 18:23:05 I thought you could get root access Oct 27 18:23:25 i can get 3 months on my treo 700p if I leave the radio turned off Oct 27 18:23:25 :D Oct 27 18:23:33 otherwise I get about 2.5 days Oct 27 18:23:34 lol Oct 27 18:23:48 i just text on my bb Oct 27 18:23:52 trashguy: Not by design. Gotta wait for someone to crack one of the built-in root processes or figure out how to reflash the filesystem with a different configuration. Oct 27 18:23:55 it last for no joke a week Oct 27 18:24:20 trashguy: this isn't one of those old 72xx series, is it? Oct 27 18:24:53 Disconnect: to be fair, applications with non-trivial data storage requirements will be using the media card, which is world-readable and can be backed up via existing tools over usb storage. Oct 27 18:25:14 andyross: ...ok, so where on my sd card do i find my send/received sms's? Oct 27 18:26:08 OK, fair enough. I was thinking more about "expensive" content (media files, pictures, etc...). I guess a copy of stuff like the call log or message stream would be useful too. Oct 27 18:26:20 and any data you put in is non-trivial if you want it back... Oct 27 18:26:41 isn't there an "irs approved" mileage tracker out there now? chances are that saves to sqlite db.. oops, no backups Oct 27 18:27:13 it'd be kinda cool if you could shove such things as message streams onto google notebook or something Oct 27 18:27:35 or have a hook to feed it to another process Oct 27 18:27:50 pinpoint apparently can read SMS to send your phone's location back to you Oct 27 18:27:52 Is there some kind of forum or other place that's devoted to hacking the G1 to allow a full-blown reflash of a new custom OS? (anyone can msg me with the URL if they want) Oct 27 18:28:28 RyeBrye: for the most part i suspect you're standing in it already Oct 27 18:28:34 RyeBrye: Not that I'm aware of, but I have to believe someone is playing with it. I'd be curious too, if someone is afraid to make such a forum public. Oct 27 18:29:06 i'd love to be able to get a ruby stack on my phone so I can beat on apps Oct 27 18:29:11 maybe i can get jruby in Oct 27 18:29:35 Id rather see python Oct 27 18:29:39 ^^ Oct 27 18:29:58 to each his own Oct 27 18:30:05 the idea being to be able to plug a scripting engine in Oct 27 18:30:13 well Oct 27 18:30:14 ryebrye xda forums? Oct 27 18:30:16 i imagine Oct 27 18:30:23 soon as you can root or reflash Oct 27 18:30:29 adding libs will be easy Oct 27 18:31:04 Laz - thanks Oct 27 18:34:46 Don't suppose anyone knows if somebody's working on a patch to add more vibrating alert options? Oct 27 18:35:22 I'm deaf, so having different ring tones is useless. What I'd like is different vibrations. e.g: "dit dit dah" when girlfriend calls, no vibration when mom calls, . . . Oct 27 18:36:14 i guess the ring tones don't have embedded vibrator info? Oct 27 18:36:23 millam that's probably totally possible. Oct 27 18:36:29 millam: good idea Oct 27 18:36:45 hello Oct 27 18:36:51 i have an interesting problem with insertImage Oct 27 18:37:08 I'm inserting a PNG file into the media contentprovider Oct 27 18:37:23 however, when I pull it back out, everything that was transparent is now colored black Oct 27 18:37:43 is there some way I can maintain the transparency of the PNG? Oct 27 18:37:53 geist: Nope, but that's one idea I was thinking of: Just convert ring tones into vibrations. Oct 27 18:37:54 Dumb question so I don't have to look it up: what is the native/C API for access to the logcat stream? Oct 27 18:38:25 anyone notice that opening the phone automatically unlocks it? Oct 27 18:38:38 millam: yeah, i was thinking back at Danger that our ring tones had embedded buzz and color info (for the tri color led) Oct 27 18:38:49 can anyone help me out? Oct 27 18:38:52 but the ringtones were essentially midi, so it was easy to embed it as a control channel Oct 27 18:39:14 geist: That's one reason Danger's sidekick was so popular. (Had the SK2 myself) Oct 27 18:39:18 seeing as a lot of the android folks are ex-Danger, im a little surprised they didn't do the same thing Oct 27 18:39:23 Popular among deaf people, that is. Oct 27 18:39:33 millam: yeah, I remember it was really cool that we made a useful device Oct 27 18:40:24 blashblash: It doesn't unlock it for me Oct 27 18:40:31 i had sidekicks untill i realised i broke 6 of them Oct 27 18:40:39 hah Oct 27 18:40:43 and theyd go exorcist on my ass Oct 27 18:40:52 Heh. Oct 27 18:40:58 yeah, well, I only did the kernel Oct 27 18:41:03 it was pretty stable! Oct 27 18:41:05 actually i had 1 2 and 5 3s Oct 27 18:41:07 anyone preing apps into the market today? Oct 27 18:41:10 2 was awesome Oct 27 18:42:03 Heh, I applied to Danger back when the SK1 came out. Resume probably didn't even get more than a second of eye-time. (Was just a student back then) Oct 27 18:42:16 yeah, i lost my 2 the other day, one of the special clear ones we ran for danger employees Oct 27 18:42:29 now i have a G1 Oct 27 18:42:44 which clearly shares it's roots in Danger Oct 27 18:43:23 millam: it was okay. the work went pretty downhill after sk1 and sk2 Oct 27 18:43:32 eventually all the originals quit Oct 27 18:43:50 geist: I wonder why :)) Oct 27 18:43:52 company stopped doing new stuff, management got too risk averse Oct 27 18:44:12 Same old story. Oct 27 18:44:21 romainguy_: hey, not everyone went over to android. a few of us went and made another little phone you may have heard of Oct 27 18:44:39 geist: so I've heard :) Oct 27 18:44:45 another phone Oct 27 18:44:46 LIES Oct 27 18:45:24 i have a linearlayout inside a framelayout with where layout_width="fill_parent" for both. The width is wrapping the content though Oct 27 18:45:29 any thoughts on that? Oct 27 18:46:00 mpardo: what do you mean by its wrapping the content? Oct 27 18:46:23 it's acting like "wrap_content" instead of "fill_parent" Oct 27 18:46:49 show your layout Oct 27 18:47:03 have you checked the actual dimension of your views in HierarchyViewer? Oct 27 18:47:25 er... no Oct 27 18:48:17 that's an eclipse view? Oct 27 18:48:22 no, it's in the SDK Oct 27 18:48:26 in tools/ Oct 27 18:48:29 k hold Oct 27 18:49:58 the weird thing is it looks fine in the layout editor Oct 27 18:52:48 mpardo: layout editor is kind of a mess Oct 27 18:53:08 yea Oct 27 18:53:15 i don't use it really Oct 27 18:53:27 Hm, looks like most of my work's done for me: Notification.vibrate is usable, so it stands to reason that it's simply not being set. Oct 27 18:53:28 until i need to see what properties are available Oct 27 18:57:44 Anybody know how I can remove items that are normally installed by default? (Mainly: Things I'll never use: VoiceDialer, AmazonMP3) Oct 27 18:57:57 you can't Oct 27 18:58:02 adb shell just won't let me remove it from the actual phone. Oct 27 18:58:04 Dang. Oct 27 18:58:05 at least not without reflashing the device Oct 27 18:59:14 * jasta hopes Jason responds this week :) Oct 27 18:59:14 romainguy_: how do i reflash the device? Oct 27 18:59:19 you don't Oct 27 18:59:22 Disconnect: you don't...yet. Oct 27 19:00:00 romainguy_: it was really refreshing to be able to get into the code of a malfunctioning all and just fix it. ahhh, this is the start of a very beautiful thing with Android :) Oct 27 19:00:13 s/all/app Oct 27 19:00:28 So much for "Any app on the mobile device can be replaced or extended -- Even core components such as the dialer or Home." Oct 27 19:00:33 jasta: "yet" as in more handwaving about it getting hacked in 4 hours? or "yet" as in "something concrete is being done"..? Oct 27 19:00:46 millam: fwiw they never said removed.. Oct 27 19:01:07 although istr you can't do a full dialer replacement either (more secret google-only apis) Oct 27 19:01:15 millam: well, Android's promise is still true. Android's promise just doesn't extend to the G1. Oct 27 19:01:24 millam: anyway, it remain quite flexible because of Intents. Oct 27 19:01:24 OK, peeve question: Who's bright idea was it to define the AndroidManifest.xml file using mixed (!) namespaces instead of a single one? Oct 27 19:01:42 wow Oct 27 19:01:42 millam: you can replace or extend them Oct 27 19:01:47 new market apps are cool Oct 27 19:01:47 we didn't say anything about removing them Oct 27 19:01:52 * zeebee loves his new gPhone Oct 27 19:01:59 when is the IRC client coming out Oct 27 19:02:01 jasta: you think a different provider is gonna have fewer restrictions? Oct 27 19:02:08 andyross: ask Dianne she'll tell you why Oct 27 19:02:11 romainguy_: well, but as i said the platform itself doesn't care if they are removed. Oct 27 19:02:18 zeebee: you gonna help write it? there are 2 projects right now Oct 27 19:02:19 yep Oct 27 19:02:22 ircell and androidchat Oct 27 19:02:27 its just a particular detail of the G1's "reset factory settings" feature. Oct 27 19:02:31 romainguy_: So I replace them by installing an identically named App in the data/ dir? Oct 27 19:02:35 no Oct 27 19:02:37 i'm not a very good programer but I can alpha test it Oct 27 19:02:43 (I want to replace NotificationManagerService) Oct 27 19:02:49 you replace them by install another app that respond to the same intent Oct 27 19:02:49 I mean, XML is hard to read already. Why complicate it with forcing the user to remember which symbols need the android: namespace and which don't? Oct 27 19:02:55 and NotificationmanagerService is not an app Oct 27 19:02:57 Disconnect: no, but its still important to separate device from platform. For instance, the platform could be loaded onto an OpenMoko handset Oct 27 19:02:59 millam: gotta be a different named app with the same intents Oct 27 19:03:03 and then you could of course easily replace these things Oct 27 19:03:06 In the G1, /system is mounted read-only but in theory could be updated. In a different device, it might be mounted read-write or burned into a ROM. Oct 27 19:03:11 Service, I mean. Oct 27 19:03:34 ("in theory could be updated" <-- in practice it can be updated; in theory it could be updated by the end user) Oct 27 19:03:36 So I can't hijack NotificationManagerService? Oct 27 19:03:43 no Oct 27 19:03:57 at least not with a simple application/.apk Oct 27 19:04:13 romainguy_: All I care about is if there *is* a way to do it in G1. Oct 27 19:04:20 And if so, how. Oct 27 19:04:24 no you can't Oct 27 19:04:30 romainguy_: i have a java question if you don't mind... Oct 27 19:04:38 Hmmm... Anyone know of any good emulators that are written in Java? I was thinking of trying to port emu48 over to android - but building an emulator in Java seems like it will be a lot of work Oct 27 19:04:39 shoot Oct 27 19:04:52 Joy, and that won't change until we get reflash capability? Oct 27 19:04:52 RyeBrye: there's a PC/DOS emulator in Java Oct 27 19:04:54 works as an applet Oct 27 19:04:58 in the Email app in quite a few places he does things like builds up an ArrayList, then flattens it with toArray(new Message[] {}) Oct 27 19:04:59 millam: that's correct Oct 27 19:05:05 jasta: ok? Oct 27 19:05:11 but then in his usage, he just builds up a new ArrayList and flattens it again to delete entries Oct 27 19:05:22 romainguy - does it emulate another processor, or just emulate DOS functionality? (i.e. is it a DOSBOX kind of thing?) Oct 27 19:05:34 RyeBrye: I think it's a full x86 emulator Oct 27 19:05:41 why wouldn't you just have these methods return a List so that way the usage could just modify the list as necessary to avoid all this excessive allocation? Oct 27 19:05:43 I'll see if i can find it Oct 27 19:05:57 jasta: I would have to check the code Oct 27 19:05:59 (lunch, brb) Oct 27 19:06:32 romainguy_: as i understand it, List#toArray(...) is just copying the entire structure, there's no hidden optimization there right? Oct 27 19:06:33 3 tip calculators in a row, lol Oct 27 19:07:09 marketplace needs a "list new apps" function Oct 27 19:07:26 Disconnect, it "sort" of has.. just list them by date Oct 27 19:07:37 it lists them in the order they appear in the market Oct 27 19:07:45 by date Oct 27 19:07:54 How much RAM is on the G1 available to applications? Oct 27 19:07:56 yah except then you have to memorize the last 3-4 apps (since they get updated) .. Oct 27 19:08:01 jasta: That's right. Oct 27 19:08:08 This JPC thing looks hella powerful - it's a full blown x86 emulator in J2SE Oct 27 19:08:25 unless there's any intrinsification (which I don't see as likely) Oct 27 19:08:37 the market should show app version info too Oct 27 19:08:42 Anyone want to see if this will compile / run on Android :) http://www-jpc.physics.ox.ac.uk/index.html Oct 27 19:08:55 RyeBrye: from california, I see ;o) Oct 27 19:09:20 me? No... what made you say that? The use of 'hella'? Maybe I've been around too many californians Oct 27 19:09:55 that's norcal too Oct 27 19:13:26 or he watches too much south park. or talks to teens basically anywhere. or is online. :) Oct 27 19:25:54 What does it mean when "adb uninstall" reports simply "Failure" Oct 27 19:26:41 Ah, it means that I tried specifying the .apk name, when what it *really* means is that I need to tell it the Java (!) package name of the application. Oct 27 19:30:09 wtf there are like 3 tip calcs? lol Oct 27 19:30:34 I'm waiting for the "sudoku rush". Oct 27 19:30:35 crazyness Oct 27 19:30:41 who'd of thought they'd be so popular :D Oct 27 19:30:51 umdk1d3: what, you were going to make your fortune doing a tip calc ap? :-) Oct 27 19:30:51 heh Oct 27 19:31:05 My wife likes sudoku but the apps she's seen so far she's not thrilled with Oct 27 19:31:18 i just found it hilorious that they were all uploaded in a row Oct 27 19:31:18 basically the UI's put her off functionally Oct 27 19:31:18 The population of a given application isn't just a function of popularity. It's more like "popularity/coding_difficulty". Oct 27 19:31:56 languish: make her one :) sudoke is simple enough to code Oct 27 19:32:46 nice, lolcat builder Oct 27 19:32:47 heh, i'm working slowly on getting a grip on java. my brain is sufficiently damaged to make this a challenge for me :) Oct 27 19:33:15 I'm doing a location-based friend finder tip calc sudoku solver app... I'll be rich! Oct 27 19:33:16 languish: my bad thought you were already coding away :) Oct 27 19:33:26 np :) Oct 27 19:33:35 blount: hey! Oct 27 19:33:41 languish: if she has any idea what she'd like send me a pm ill see if i can knock one up to her tastes Oct 27 19:33:43 blount: how's it going? Oct 27 19:33:57 sure Oct 27 19:34:33 blount: don't forget it has to defend against sex offenders too. Oct 27 19:34:43 * ttuttle glares at iSafe. Oct 27 19:35:27 i should install that loool Oct 27 19:35:52 lol i saw a crazy idea for a defense app for android, where you have to hold a button own, whilst it records video + sound, then when you release the button it is all sent to a friend Oct 27 19:36:02 supposed to run it when your in a scary area Oct 27 19:36:33 Yeah, because walking around carrying a phone up in the air pointing at scary people is always a good idea Oct 27 19:36:40 haha Oct 27 19:37:35 RyeBrye: my thought exactly :D Oct 27 19:38:02 VickiWong: clearly that was someone who never saw the camera. "oh look, another person being chased by 3 random monochrome stripes..." Oct 27 19:38:14 wouldnt there be a legal issue as well, about filming/photographic people without their permission Oct 27 19:38:23 Disconnect: Ha! Oct 27 19:38:27 depends on the country. in general in the usa its ok in "public spaces" Oct 27 19:38:43 Disconnect: the trick is to be attacked in bright areas Oct 27 19:38:52 fadden: by very slow-moving people Oct 27 19:39:42 and to know your about to be attacked.. Oct 27 19:40:00 "stand still for 15 seconds while i try to send a pic to my friend, ok?" Oct 27 19:40:15 and how pissed wil lthe friend be, getting video+audio sent to them everytime you walk down an alley Oct 27 19:40:20 christ you can't get -friendly- people to stand around still enough long enough to take pics, much less anyone else Oct 27 19:41:59 I love open source geeks...there was an RPN calculator for android within hours of the Market opening up...I bet it took a lot longer on the iPhone Oct 27 19:42:04 if im in danger i wont be grabbing my phone lol probably soem object to beat people with Oct 27 19:43:32 trashguy: that'd be my phone Oct 27 19:43:45 zhobbs: istr it was one of the first jailbreak apps for original iphoen Oct 27 19:44:04 VickiWong, thos enokia probably could do some damage Oct 27 19:44:07 Disconnect: nice Oct 27 19:45:11 wow... Oct 27 19:45:23 trashguy: :D Oct 27 19:45:26 rock on altitude - 5 stars. open it up. 1 comment. "first - but this app is lame" 1 star. Oct 27 19:45:40 nice one google, way to divide 1 by 1 and get 5.. Oct 27 19:46:02 Screw the RPN calculator... I want a full-blown HP-48G emulator on android Oct 27 19:46:16 wtf Oct 27 19:46:22 lolcat builder Oct 27 19:46:26 are u for realz Oct 27 19:46:30 Disconnect: it shows 1 star for me Oct 27 19:46:31 that's no WTF. That's fur realz Oct 27 19:46:41 marcone: in the app list? Oct 27 19:46:56 yes Oct 27 19:47:00 the app page shows 1 but the sort-by-date list here shows 5 Oct 27 19:47:18 i'm in the by-date list, and see 1 star Oct 27 19:47:44 weird glitch, backed out and reloaded and its 1 now. but opening the app page and back didn't do that. Oct 27 19:48:18 Can I run android with HaRET? If so, where are the files I need? Oct 27 19:48:40 dvyjones: look for Android on the Vogue. You will find info about this. Oct 27 19:49:10 Disconnect, some people vote but don't comment Oct 27 19:49:22 ack Oct 27 19:49:29 was scrolled up :/ Oct 27 19:50:24 hehe Oct 27 19:52:28 userdata.img = zImage? Oct 27 19:52:35 Android's java implementation is based on 1.5, correct - any plans to move up to 1.6 anytime in the near future? Oct 27 19:52:46 you can use 1.6 Oct 27 19:52:58 (well except the APIs :) Oct 27 19:53:02 romainguy - some features of 1.6 aren't in there I'm noticing... like Math.GetExponent Oct 27 19:53:06 err Math.getExponent Oct 27 19:53:19 I was talking about the language only Oct 27 19:53:20 obviously not a major feature -but I'm looking at that JPC project and seeing how hard it would be to port to android Oct 27 19:53:21 is there an ssh client Oct 27 19:53:24 Oh, ok Oct 27 19:54:26 There are only a couple of 1.6-only things I've found so far, the rest is that it uses Swing and AWT heavily - so all that UI stuff has to be gutted out and rebuilt for andoid - but the behind-the-scenes stuff for that x86 emulator looks like it should - in theory - compile and run Oct 27 19:55:44 The performance of emulating x86 on a VM on an ARM processor remains to be seen, of course :) Oct 27 19:56:24 lol Oct 27 19:56:49 is there na application for emulating x86? Oct 27 19:56:53 i mean Oct 27 19:57:02 lol Oct 27 19:57:44 Not on Android yet- but there is a pure J2SE x86 emulator that will boot and run DOS, and linux http://www-jpc.physics.ox.ac.uk/ Oct 27 19:58:18 application Oct 27 19:58:20 are there directions on how to reinstall the android os? Oct 27 19:58:21 i mean use Oct 27 19:58:24 no way to make gmail notify on non-inbox messages? :( Oct 27 19:58:25 on the G1? Oct 27 19:58:26 Oh :) Oct 27 19:58:32 sorry Oct 27 19:58:38 trashguy - yeah - ever seen Dosbox? Old Dos Games are awesome :) Oct 27 19:58:38 herriojr: you can revert to factory Oct 27 19:58:41 how is android in japan coming along? Oct 27 19:58:56 how do I do it without being able to see anything? Oct 27 19:59:00 connectbot in market ^.^ Oct 27 19:59:06 umdk1d3 awesome Oct 27 19:59:23 the screen doesn't seem to be working, and I want to see if it is software or hardware that caused it Oct 27 19:59:33 its not as stable as a rock yet, but very usable Oct 27 19:59:55 herriojr: http://forums.t-mobile.com/tmbl/board/message?board.id=87&thread.id=3675 ..first hit on google. Oct 27 20:00:12 and trashguy - or running low-powered x86 programs directly as binaries... i.e. - If I ported the JPC project mabye I could just use JPC to run emu48 instead of trying to port emu48 from C to Java :) Oct 27 20:00:13 umdk1d3 did you give it a "beta" title? Oct 27 20:00:26 * languish checking now anyway Oct 27 20:00:28 so... in other words... it's a really roundabout way to get an HP48 emulator :) Oct 27 20:00:41 ah, I was searching for the wrong thing Oct 27 20:01:58 Connectbot is in! Oct 27 20:02:07 waldo_: is it a recent build? Oct 27 20:02:07 waldo_, in the market? Oct 27 20:02:13 yes and yes Oct 27 20:02:18 cool Oct 27 20:02:22 be sure to review it! Oct 27 20:03:00 very cool. Oct 27 20:03:09 hmm, didn't fix it Oct 27 20:03:13 I guess the screen is busted Oct 27 20:03:19 all I did was switch sims Oct 27 20:03:27 and the screen stopped working Oct 27 20:05:41 herriojr: not working in what way? Oct 27 20:08:03 * jasta jabs pawalls Oct 27 20:08:16 * waldo_ is away: food glorious food Oct 27 20:09:49 gdsx: the screen is just black Oct 27 20:09:57 jasta, wha? Oct 27 20:10:00 I can get the backlight when I turn it on, but it never displays anything Oct 27 20:10:50 weir Oct 27 20:10:51 +d Oct 27 20:10:57 pawalls: just saying hi. forcefully. Oct 27 20:10:57 herriojr: if you plug it in and do `adb logcat`, do you ever see anything? Oct 27 20:11:03 herriojr: also, does it vibrate when you turn it on? Oct 27 20:12:43 jasta, How's my IDLE coming along? ;-) Oct 27 20:13:51 pawalls: working just fine Oct 27 20:13:59 the usb drive doesn't work for me, let me check on another computer Oct 27 20:14:07 also, I don't know if debugging is enabled on it yet Oct 27 20:14:10 however, it's a massive hack because i need to do some major surgery to this app Oct 27 20:14:20 and im trying to work with the original author to make that fit nicer Oct 27 20:14:26 yes, it vibrates when I turn it on Oct 27 20:14:29 but i'll send you a copy tonight if you want Oct 27 20:14:33 I can also hear when I turn the sound up/down Oct 27 20:14:56 Anyone played around much with the G1 in bootloader mode? ( I dont' have my phone yet, but I hear if you hold down the camera button when you power it on it goes into bootloader mode) Oct 27 20:14:58 pawalls: it's a separate package so that it can install on the G1, so you probably want to unregister all accounts in the original email all Oct 27 20:15:01 email app* Oct 27 20:15:28 pawalls: also, it only works when you configure 1 account and it only works efficiently if that 1 account supports IMAP IDLE :) Oct 27 20:15:39 but these limitations are precisely why the email app needs major surgery Oct 27 20:15:48 Hm.. Oct 27 20:16:00 its communication model is too primitive for my needs. Oct 27 20:16:19 jasta, Sure, send it whenever, I'll give it a gander. Oct 27 20:16:25 we need to find a way to reflash g1's Oct 27 20:16:45 Laz - yes, we do... I think the bootloader mode is probably the first thing to explore Oct 27 20:17:08 gdsx: the buttons also light up Oct 27 20:19:19 herriojr: so, if you slide the keyboard open and look inside from the bottom of the phone (where there's an opening), does the ribbon cable look ok? Oct 27 20:19:24 i dont see anything in linux or windows over usb in bootloader mode for the g1.. is this similar to other htc devices? Oct 27 20:19:51 just a "serial0" entry Oct 27 20:20:07 Galtoid - do you do lsusb and nothing comes up for it? Oct 27 20:20:13 any chance some of the 11 pins do rs232? Oct 27 20:20:26 galtoid: hook up minicom (or hyperterminal) to serial0 and see what comes out Oct 27 20:20:30 yah, nada (when in bootloder) Oct 27 20:20:42 adb and usbstorage work great Oct 27 20:20:44 different baud rates etc? Oct 27 20:20:52 yah Oct 27 20:21:15 but usbserial would have to pick it up and map to /dev/ttyUSBX Oct 27 20:21:21 * waldo_ is away: auto-away Oct 27 20:21:23 or windows would assign a com Oct 27 20:21:44 galtoid - lsusb -v show anything connected to that port? (is the computer seeing it - even if it can't drive it?) Oct 27 20:22:05 galtoid: does mydroid/bootloader/legacy/fastboot_protocol.txt help? Oct 27 20:22:07 galtoid - perhaps usbserial just doesn't like the device / vendor ID - but if you see it there you can try to force USB serial to use it Oct 27 20:22:12 nothing via lsusb -vvv Oct 27 20:22:52 yeah I read fastboot_protocol.txt, 'legacy' is significant i tink Oct 27 20:22:58 Hmm... if the USB bus doesn't see it - that would seem to indicate to me that it isn't using USB - so your assumption about the pins possibly doing RS232 might be correct Oct 27 20:23:01 ::nod:: Oct 27 20:23:30 the kernel would at least detect a plug event -- thee is none Oct 27 20:23:39 thee=there Oct 27 20:24:04 gdsx: I don't see a ribbon Oct 27 20:24:06 I don't know about the production bootloader, but I flash my device over USB Oct 27 20:24:22 either a) there's a magic keycomb to flip usb on in the loader, or some of the 11pins do rs232 in bootloader mode. Oct 27 20:24:23 Are there any circumstances under which Canvas.clipRect will hang? Oct 27 20:24:24 i know there are 2 bootloaders (prod and engineering) the legacy docs might be the engineering version Oct 27 20:24:36 ah, nvm Oct 27 20:24:50 galtoid: I'm pretty sure it's just USB Oct 27 20:25:06 I don't see a red ribbon, but I see a black one Oct 27 20:25:08 Does the extUSB uses more pins than a standard mini-USB cable? I've got literally dozens of those cables mini-USB to normal USB cables that could dice up on Wednesday when my G1 arrives Oct 27 20:25:22 herriojr: yeah, it should be black Oct 27 20:25:53 herriojr: if it looks ok, I think I'm out of ideas Oct 27 20:26:12 gdsx: it looks like part of it is pulled off of the case, where it is attached on the bottom Oct 27 20:26:23 RyeBrye: I'm using a normal USB A-to-miniB cable here to talk to my G1 Oct 27 20:26:34 extusb seems to only be necessary for headset use and the like Oct 27 20:27:03 i'm hoping my ExtUSB->2.5mm adapter will show up soon Oct 27 20:27:04 Death_Syn - I was just wondering if there are extra pins that would carry RS232 possibly in bootloader mode that a normal miniUSB - USB wouldn't have present Oct 27 20:27:14 i really wanna use my plantronics headset Oct 27 20:27:22 RyeBrye: that is a good question Oct 27 20:28:04 supposedly on htc devices you can make them pause on power up to do stuff like load firmware from the microsd Oct 27 20:28:16 http://www.tracyandmatt.co.uk/blogs/index.php/2006/09/10/htc_hermes_usb_connector_pin_config Oct 27 20:28:29 and there is an option for flashing from sd but it requires a signed image Oct 27 20:28:33 RS232 only really needs 4 pins right? Vcc Rx Tx and Gnd? Oct 27 20:29:01 yeah, those are all it NEEDS Oct 27 20:29:19 that pin config might be useful to you, RyeBrye Oct 27 20:29:42 Yeah, Death_Syn - I could imagine that they could easily use the audio pins to do RS232 Oct 27 20:29:58 * RyeBrye wishes he had his G1 in hand already :( Oct 27 20:30:07 you can get by with 3 for ttl-level iirc Oct 27 20:30:15 Anyone know how to get a RandomAccessFile of a raw resource? Oct 27 20:30:17 gdsx: yeah, I think that's the issue...somehow sliding it bent part of the ribbon Oct 27 20:30:25 it's going to have to be sent back Oct 27 20:30:29 shit Oct 27 20:30:52 i hate trying to do serial work wihtout hardware flow control, though Oct 27 20:30:54 but that's just me Oct 27 20:31:22 Yeah, I might not want to flash a firmware without it Oct 27 20:31:42 RyeBrye: generally bootloaders don't do flow control, they just do block checksumming Oct 27 20:31:51 good to know Oct 27 20:31:55 and since you're not flashing the bootloader a bad flash isn't a huge deal anyway Oct 27 20:36:24 Anyone seen a set of take-apart images of the G1 around? Oct 27 20:37:21 RyeBrye: just get insurance on your phone and take it apart :) Oct 27 20:37:39 Yeah, but I think they have high copays for replacements on those things Oct 27 20:37:39 if you break aything, t-mobile will get you a new one, thats the deal :) Oct 27 20:37:40 :) Oct 27 20:37:50 not really, $35 replacement fee i think Oct 27 20:38:04 small price to pay to get a new $400 phone to take apart :) Oct 27 20:38:06 hmm... I might consider it - depends on how much per month it runs Oct 27 20:38:13 it's like $6/mo Oct 27 20:38:17 so don't have it on for too long Oct 27 20:38:29 i think you can cancel the replacement charge at any time Oct 27 20:38:30 Yeah, I do break phones Oct 27 20:38:31 a lot Oct 27 20:38:32 and then you wont be covered Oct 27 20:38:46 so just get that, take apart your phone and go get a new one Oct 27 20:38:48 actually, just get two :) Oct 27 20:38:58 man you could really run a racket with that. Oct 27 20:39:21 the full coverage insurance covers in the event that you simply lose or totally destroy your phone. so they cant make you give the phone back :) Oct 27 20:41:41 api demo's haven't been updated? Oct 27 20:41:45 I have had that kind of coverage before - and it came in handy when my phone fell into a river and floated away Oct 27 20:43:52 jasta: if they see the ESN show up they'll figure out what happened. Oct 27 20:43:54 hmm, can't hit code.google.com Oct 27 20:44:07 zhobbs: omg apple^Wgoogle store is down! :) Oct 27 20:44:07 i can Oct 27 20:44:11 just tried Oct 27 20:44:22 BruteSource: http://code.google.com/p/ringdroid/ ? Oct 27 20:44:28 Disconnect: thats why you dont let the ESN show up. take the SIM out, and just use it to figure out how to reflash Oct 27 20:44:35 yeah, I guess I can hit the main site, but that one isn't working for me Oct 27 20:44:37 nogo Oct 27 20:44:38 Disconnect: That your lost phone was found by someone else? Oct 27 20:45:29 What should board be set to in android-info.txt if my board is set in kernel/arch/arm/mach-omap1/board-htcpharos.c ? Oct 27 20:55:31 found my duplicate-app problem. they renamed 'twitdroid' to 'twidroid' sigh Oct 27 20:56:07 probably when the author finally bothered to open a dictionary Oct 27 20:56:16 heh Oct 27 20:56:28 appstore still called it an update, then installed it twice. appstore bug.. Oct 27 20:56:34 (or platform bug i guess) Oct 27 20:56:42 i thought it smelled like someone took a mac in here Oct 27 20:56:45 if they changed the package name... Oct 27 20:57:02 how was the app store deployed? magic? Oct 27 20:57:14 ? Oct 27 20:58:22 phillijw: Yes. Oct 27 20:58:25 phillijw: it was already on the phone when you bought it Oct 27 20:59:00 The carrier can push a flash update, though, so certainly anything is possible as far as OTA application changes. Oct 27 21:00:14 yah :( Oct 27 21:00:28 romainguy_: Have you ever encountered Canvas.clipRect hanging? Oct 27 21:00:33 er no Oct 27 21:01:08 DIsconnect can you run like a regular pc distro of linux on your hw or do you have to use like yellowdog? Oct 27 21:01:20 huh? Oct 27 21:01:26 romainguy_: This seems to provide a nice test case: http://pastebin.com/m256c423a Oct 27 21:01:37 Anyone know how to get a RandomAccessFile out of getAsset or openFileResource() ? I'm at my wit's end here! Oct 27 21:02:05 romainguy_: It's definitely a reproducible bug for me on the 1.0 SDK, so I thought it might become my first patch... Oct 27 21:02:22 Disconnect your on a mac.. Oct 27 21:02:26 if it hangs I would expect it to hang in the native code Oct 27 21:02:34 * Disconnect noticed... Oct 27 21:02:36 although I don't quite see how it could hang without crashing really Oct 27 21:02:49 romainguy_: It is hanging on a native backed Canvas Oct 27 21:02:57 spent a long time trying to figure out what was up with all the white on the outside tho Oct 27 21:03:14 (from what I can tell) The debugger goes into the method and never comes out. Oct 27 21:03:45 I wouldn't trust the debugger to decide whether a method hangs or not Oct 27 21:03:50 does the application hang? Oct 27 21:04:20 yes, sometimes the whole emulator hangs to the extent that all you can do is close it Oct 27 21:04:54 It hangs on the call at ViewGroup line 1421 in the 1.0 source Oct 27 21:05:03 canvas.clipRect(sx, sy, sx + cr - cl, sy + cb - ct); Oct 27 21:05:09 * waldo_ is back (gone 00:43:47) Oct 27 21:05:22 how does one build only one app in the whole tree? i've built the complete tree and just want to quickly rebuild a small part Oct 27 21:05:46 mithro: if you have . build/envsetup.sh you can do mmm path/to/app Oct 27 21:05:56 then adb sync to reinstall it Oct 27 21:06:40 tomgibara: file the bug on the tracker Oct 27 21:06:50 is it just me or is battery life better now? Oct 27 21:06:50 okay Oct 27 21:07:04 romainguy: how to I boot the simulator and debugger with my newly built stuff? Oct 27 21:07:05 just a case of the thing getting worn in or whatever? magical battery chemistry ? Oct 27 21:07:21 mithro: you need to rebuild the system image first Oct 27 21:07:25 using something like make snod Oct 27 21:07:37 but if you are already running the emulator all you need is: Oct 27 21:07:41 mmm path/to/app && adb sync Oct 27 21:07:44 (you need to adb remount first) Oct 27 21:08:08 wastrel: 'now'? might be better training if you let it drain all the way once or twice. or turned off 3g. (or if you got the update, might be something in there) Oct 27 21:08:22 has anyone tried ssh from ash? Oct 27 21:08:27 Did anybody attended Android Developers Workshop in Boston? Oct 27 21:13:35 wastrel: what have you done regarding the battery? I've heard other people report their battery life is better but I can't seem to draw any connections. AFIAK, it shouldn't matter with LiIon batteries. Oct 27 21:13:56 Mine doesn't really seem better either. Oct 27 21:19:41 SanMehat: New Apps: OI News Reader, Wikitude--AR Travel Guide, Tea.ch Cards Light, Fast Food Calorie Counter Demo, Krystle II, several apps by GoTV Networks, DialCall (simulates a rotary phone, I think?), OI Flashlight (can we just ban flashlights in the TOS?), BooRah Restaurant Guide, another Weather app, TooDo, Tip Calculator, gEZTip, SA Tip Calculator (can we ban tip calculators too?), Calcstra (an RPN calculator), AccuTracking (a GPS tracking program Oct 27 21:20:06 flashlights are useful bro Oct 27 21:20:17 SanMehat: Twilight (World Clock), Tag Todo List, AgileMedSearch, CardioTrainer, and Statusinator. Oct 27 21:20:22 f00f-: One is. Oct 27 21:20:35 yeah, there should just be a built-in one Oct 27 21:20:38 perhaps a contributoin :) Oct 27 21:20:39 f00f-: Yeah. Oct 27 21:21:16 * ttuttle is about to go to a Qualcomm talk where they're giving away a G1. Oct 27 21:21:18 * ttuttle hopes to win it ;-) Oct 27 21:21:30 oh nice Oct 27 21:21:37 how does one fix Oct 27 21:21:41 adb: Product directory not specified; use -p or define ANDROID_PRODUCT_OUT Oct 27 21:21:42 ? Oct 27 21:21:45 ttuttle: agreed, ban on flashlights :P Oct 27 21:21:50 umdk1d3: Heh. Oct 27 21:21:51 (when using the git checkout?) Oct 27 21:22:15 is it the "out" directory in the tree? Oct 27 21:22:43 mithro: did you source envsetup.sh Oct 27 21:22:44 ? Oct 27 21:22:50 yes Oct 27 21:22:56 weird Oct 27 21:24:10 romainguy_: the email app scales terribly with lots of messages or folders ;) Oct 27 21:24:37 it performs like 3 traversals of the entire list of messages Oct 27 21:24:42 and allocates it all over again Oct 27 21:25:23 jasta: Yep. Oct 27 21:25:25 I'm not surprised Oct 27 21:25:35 romainguy: so where should I set ANDROID_PRODUCT_OUT to? Oct 27 21:25:36 the Email app was written in a VERY short period of time Oct 27 21:25:37 mithro: I just did what it said: I exported ANDROID_PRODUCT_OUT and pointed it at out/target/product/generic Oct 27 21:25:39 jasta: My university has thousands of bulletin boards that show up as IMAP folders. Email is useless there :-( Oct 27 21:25:43 well, i wouldn't be if i didn't already notice how freaking slow it is ;) Oct 27 21:25:51 it's amazing actually that it works so well :)) Oct 27 21:26:03 romainguy_: really? because i have found the email app to b quite slow on the G1 Oct 27 21:26:08 and i see why now ;) Oct 27 21:26:18 Just asked a question to the android-beginner group http://groups.google.com/group/android-beginners/t/8c155b6eddb888ee ...can anyone here help me with this problem? Oct 27 21:26:37 jasta: like I said, it was written in a VERY VERY short period of time Oct 27 21:26:50 well considering that its quite impressive Oct 27 21:27:07 especially since the guy who wrote it didn't know Android before Oct 27 21:27:55 can someone point me to where the battery driver for the MSM/G1 is in the kernel tree? (the definition/implementation of the power_supply) struct Oct 27 21:28:07 romainguy_: probably why he didn't use AIDL :) Oct 27 21:28:15 aaronbc: It basically means you're (almost certainly) leaking memory in the new Activity Oct 27 21:29:01 hey, is the connectbot guy around? ^^ Oct 27 21:29:06 tomgibara: where? i posted the onCreate() method... it's pretty straight forward Oct 27 21:29:10 ttuttle, my wife and her girlfriends love the flashlight and tip calculator. Oct 27 21:29:12 swetland: umdk1d3 Oct 27 21:29:17 obviously apps for girls :| Oct 27 21:29:19 romain: yes, him! Oct 27 21:29:21 brian do you know? Oct 27 21:29:23 foobar`: kernel/drivers/power not it? Oct 27 21:29:33 andyross: the goldfish one is there Oct 27 21:29:33 languish: which of the three? Oct 27 21:29:40 where is the MSM one? Oct 27 21:29:48 there's not a generic msm one Oct 27 21:29:54 aaronbc: Possibly with new Deck() ? Oct 27 21:30:05 there is a htc specific one for dream (in the android-msm-htc branch, arch/mach-msm/htc_battery.c) Oct 27 21:30:33 also make sure you unregister your sensors listener in onDestroy/onStop/etc. Oct 27 21:30:50 +* Oct 27 21:30:52 is there a way to open the android market to a certain application? Oct 27 21:31:03 ttuttle, sa tip calc and whichever flashlight app was brigther, didn't have colors Oct 27 21:31:06 herriojr: what do you mean? Oct 27 21:31:11 *brighter Oct 27 21:31:33 okay, i'll take out the sensors and remove the new deck first and see if that fixes the problem. Oct 27 21:31:37 basically, through one application, I want to point the phone to the android deck to download another application Oct 27 21:31:40 aaronbc: Ha, yes listen to romainguy :) Oct 27 21:32:01 someone with a G1 do me a favor and open ash (terminal emulator) and type ssh Oct 27 21:32:02 or at least show them the application on the android market Oct 27 21:32:06 herriojr: I don't think we have an intent for that yet but you should ask on the discussion groups for an official answer on this Oct 27 21:32:08 deck = market Oct 27 21:32:17 ok Oct 27 21:32:17 swetland, where is that branch? Oct 27 21:32:36 http://android.git.kernel.org/?p=kernel/msm.git;a=shortlog;h=refs/heads/android-msm-htc-2.6.25 Oct 27 21:32:37 it's something I'm used to doing in BREW Oct 27 21:36:00 swetland, awesome, thanks! this should get me started on the HTC vogue Oct 27 21:36:17 swetland is openssh included on g1, can it be accessed via ash? Oct 27 21:36:22 romainguy_: looks like that was it, thank you! Oct 27 21:36:58 foobar someone has already got android goin 100% on vogue btw Oct 27 21:37:05 no Oct 27 21:37:16 it's far far from 100% Oct 27 21:37:22 unless you mean someone in google... Oct 27 21:37:27 yes, lol its where we took all of our work for excalibur Oct 27 21:37:38 vogue linux Oct 27 21:37:41 you're talking about martin's tree Oct 27 21:37:44 it's nowhere near 100% Oct 27 21:38:13 he just got power collapse working this weekend Oct 27 21:38:19 i'm going to add the battery driver Oct 27 21:38:25 it still has no USB, wifi, lots of stuff Oct 27 21:38:25 no im not, this guy has userspace with all radio stuff working audio routed and working Oct 27 21:38:38 BruteSource: where can I find ash? i've been looking for a terminal emulator. Oct 27 21:38:46 BruteSource, where is this? Oct 27 21:38:57 its in dev tools terminal emulator Oct 27 21:39:03 if you're talking about the first hit for "vogue linux" Oct 27 21:39:05 that's martin's tree Oct 27 21:39:14 and it's great, but nowhere near 100%.... Oct 27 21:39:15 when is the 64-bit usb driver expected? Oct 27 21:39:37 BruteSource, does the version you're talking about have wifi, USB, full power management, etc? Oct 27 21:39:45 whatever you want to think im jsut telling you where we got all of the work we used to get android working on excalibur Oct 27 21:40:03 does working include usb, wifi, and power management? Oct 27 21:40:13 hello Oct 27 21:40:28 it has gprs, calling, mms, sms, audio thats all i know for sure Oct 27 21:40:49 ya that's the easy stuff, mostly same as hardware in g1 Oct 27 21:40:54 well audio wasn't Oct 27 21:41:32 gprs,calling,mms,sms are all just 1 driver Oct 27 21:41:37 yeah i think you're talking about the same thing Oct 27 21:41:48 ya im not s luck there is no real gsm drivers for excalibur Oct 27 21:41:51 did you get power management working on the excalibur? Oct 27 21:41:56 ah ok Oct 27 21:41:56 so lucky Oct 27 21:42:14 no we even had to diable resume/suspend Oct 27 21:42:27 because it was breaking everything Oct 27 21:42:54 we are working on audio now Oct 27 21:43:12 i dunno who is gunna write all the ril stuff Oct 27 21:43:33 i don't know what martin had to change in the ril Oct 27 21:43:39 wub_: hey. i've been trying to charge infrequently and letting it get low before charging to see how long i can stretch it. Oct 27 21:44:28 wub_: nothing systematic however. it might be because the "honeymoon" is over and i'm not using it as much as in the very beginning... dunno. Oct 27 21:44:31 foobar do you know why i was able to init the android userspace once but after that its complaining because its trying to mount everything, but its already mounted? Oct 27 21:45:06 what do you mean by "init the android userspace" Oct 27 21:45:48 * ttuttle just lost the game. Oct 27 21:46:20 we are mounting the system.img via loopback it mounts okay the first time but after that it trys when its already mounted and errors Oct 27 21:46:35 what tries to remount? Oct 27 21:47:00 init Oct 27 21:47:25 so make it so it doesn't try to remount? Oct 27 21:48:05 i dont know why its even trying there is a script that automounts everything, and it didnt do this before Oct 27 21:49:27 i guess you have a bug in your script... just debug it... e.g. break on sys_mount Oct 27 21:50:29 romainguy_: what really happens when the adapter invokes notifyDataSetChanged? Oct 27 21:50:59 it invokes a listener on ListView (really AdapterView) that relayout the content Oct 27 21:51:11 foobar whats great is onve everything is done and working me and you have root, and the poor g1 users dont lol Oct 27 21:51:18 once Oct 27 21:51:25 BruteSource: you're familiar with system/core/rootdir/init.rc ? Oct 27 21:52:03 why don't the g1 users have root yet. isn't there a browser exploit? Oct 27 21:52:12 OMFG i just had an epiphony! Oct 27 21:52:12 t00ns1ll: browser doesn't run as root Oct 27 21:52:16 no that was bs i hear Oct 27 21:52:30 fadden not really Oct 27 21:52:35 you could use itunes remote over 3g/edge network with a connectbot ssh tunnel =D Oct 27 21:52:57 BruteSource: /system is mounted rw ("to give the filesystem a chance to save a checkpoint") and then remounted RO Oct 27 21:52:59 thats why i was asking if they had ssh Oct 27 21:53:11 romainguy_: so you'd basically get newView called on each of the displayed views and then a full layout after? Oct 27 21:53:17 no Oct 27 21:53:23 ListView calls getView() Oct 27 21:53:31 err, getView() i mean Oct 27 21:53:39 faden but why is it doing this on the second boot and it didnt on the first? Oct 27 21:53:44 but yeah, it does a full layout Oct 27 21:53:53 ok, just checking Oct 27 21:53:58 because there's no way to guarantee that after the change all items will have the same height, etc. Oct 27 21:54:03 so we go the expensive way Oct 27 21:54:05 but that's ok Oct 27 21:54:06 i dont think swetland likes all this rooting his work talk Oct 27 21:55:00 bluetooth headset service loads, when BT is disabled? Oct 27 21:55:03 :| Oct 27 21:55:06 i downloaded ssh for the g1 and ran it using adb. it worked. but i would love to use it without adb. Oct 27 21:55:08 because the Email client does 4 complete traversals (including a list-based sort, rather than SQL ORDER BY) of all messages in af older, and then on the last traversal it calls notifyDataSetChanged on each message. Oct 27 21:55:19 which i suspect is the reason why it loads so much slower than other apps Oct 27 21:55:34 t00ns1ll, connectbot works just fine on the g1 Oct 27 21:55:38 it's ssh Oct 27 21:55:52 yes but can you do reverse port forwarding? Oct 27 21:55:54 BruteSource: dunno Oct 27 21:56:06 t00ns1ll: yes, you can Oct 27 21:56:27 t00ns1ll, what kRutOn said. :) Oct 27 21:56:28 is there any way to launch sshd on the g1 yet? Oct 27 21:57:19 hello I question: How do u access sqlite database stored on external media like the sd card Oct 27 21:57:25 I have* Oct 27 21:57:44 AndNav is up again. This time it should show the maps :rolleyes: Oct 27 21:57:54 romainguy_: i am tempted at this point to do major surgery on this thing ;) Oct 27 21:58:24 a link to somewhere where it tell u how u can do this would be appreciated also Oct 27 21:59:18 and then on the last traversal it calls notifyDataSetChanged on each message.<< which is fine Oct 27 21:59:22 it just schedules a layout Oct 27 21:59:36 it won't trigger X layouts Oct 27 21:59:45 oh, well thats good to know Oct 27 22:00:17 did you contact Jason btw Oct 27 22:00:18 ? Oct 27 22:00:31 was there a terminal app for the g1 up on market before the release? Oct 27 22:00:37 romainguy_: yup Oct 27 22:00:40 ok Oct 27 22:00:55 i dont really expect to hear back from him for a few days tho Oct 27 22:01:26 did he reply already? Oct 27 22:01:38 why would I get a "No space left on device" when doing a adb sync ? Oct 27 22:01:51 because your /data is full Oct 27 22:01:58 or because something keeps file descriptor opened Oct 27 22:02:01 +s Oct 27 22:02:09 romainguy: so how do I fix? :) Oct 27 22:02:23 as I have plenty of disk space Oct 27 22:02:31 try a df to see how much you have left in /data Oct 27 22:02:31 how long does the battery last for you, now that the honeymoon is over? :) i must have joined too late and missed some things. Oct 27 22:03:24 battery fail Oct 27 22:03:34 okay where does /data exist - it's not part of what mount shows me Oct 27 22:04:05 just use df Oct 27 22:04:50 df -h does not show a /data Oct 27 22:05:04 maybe df -hc / | grep data Oct 27 22:05:08 mithro: on a G1?? Oct 27 22:05:16 % adb shell df -h Oct 27 22:05:16 -h: No such file or directory Oct 27 22:05:30 ahh that is the difference Oct 27 22:05:42 I needed to do a "adb shell df" Oct 27 22:05:46 You're not going to see it mounted on the host side. Oct 27 22:05:52 where were you typing df? Oct 27 22:06:00 so /system is full Oct 27 22:06:08 because it RO Oct 27 22:06:11 failed to copy '/home/tim/oss/android/out/target/product/generic//system/lib/libopencorecommon.so' to '/system/lib/libopencorecommon.so': No space left on device Oct 27 22:06:40 on my G1 I have 8 MB left on /system Oct 27 22:06:46 /system: 69120K total, 60984K used, 8136K available (block size 4096) Oct 27 22:06:55 (dev device, with more stuff than a consumer G1) Oct 27 22:07:03 romainguy_: it's a bit tighter on the production units Oct 27 22:07:05 reply using the email addres mail was sent to doesn't work with Android Oct 27 22:07:11 fadden: ah ok, makes sense Oct 27 22:07:19 We put the optimized DEX on /system so there's more room on /data Oct 27 22:07:27 good to know Oct 27 22:07:28 (anybody wants to play along at home: dalvik/docs/dexopt.html) Oct 27 22:07:45 so we don't dexopt the core stuff on boot on production devices? Oct 27 22:07:53 romainguy_: oh hell no Oct 27 22:07:56 awesome Oct 27 22:07:58 I'm working with the emulator Oct 27 22:08:09 Good to know. Oct 27 22:08:12 (that dexopt is killing me when I update the framework) Oct 27 22:08:12 (rather then a live G1) Oct 27 22:08:34 Emulator /system is writeable. Sounds like yours is full. Is it still full if you restart the emulator? Oct 27 22:09:00 (Under UNIX, deleted files don't release their storage if something has them open.) Oct 27 22:09:54 Lol, so i guess you can sell your g1 to someone in china for just over $580. Oct 27 22:10:00 Wow. Oct 27 22:10:02 and charge $70 to unlock it. Oct 27 22:10:27 so $650 for an unlocked g1 in china. Oct 27 22:10:32 what the fuck Oct 27 22:11:04 fadden: no it's smaller again, I just want to sync my modified alarmclock to the emulator to play with Oct 27 22:11:11 Kind of funny since I used to bring unlocked GSM phones back from Hong Kong to the US and sell them for 2x the price I bought them for. Oct 27 22:11:16 romainguy_: somebody just rated my trivial case-insensitive mimetype match patch with a -1 Oct 27 22:11:23 hehe, what? Oct 27 22:11:42 kRutOn: you are what most people would call. A jerk. Oct 27 22:11:43 lol Oct 27 22:11:49 mithro: sounds like a bunch of other stuff went down; you did an "adb sync"? For a single app it's better to "adb uninstall" / "adb install". Oct 27 22:11:50 oh lord, formatting :) Oct 27 22:12:13 Dougie187: Hey, the (eBay) market sets the price! I just put it on there for $0.99 and let them bid :-) Oct 27 22:12:17 stinkin eclipse Oct 27 22:12:29 Dougie187: Otherwise you'd have to wait over a year to get the new toys from Asia. Oct 27 22:12:44 kRutOn: True, but you could put it for a buy it now price. Oct 27 22:13:03 Dougie187, I wouldn't do that Oct 27 22:13:04 buy it now for what you want, and auction for highest price. Oct 27 22:13:15 auction FTW! Oct 27 22:13:21 jasta: Dump eclipse. An hour reading and cloning the Ant build.xml into a sane and simple makefile or build script is all it takes. And you learn a ton about the platform in the process. Oct 27 22:13:26 well, highest price under your buy it now. Oct 27 22:13:37 Dougie187, sing it with me, "money, money, money!" Oct 27 22:13:47 2x price is a bit much of a profit, thats like the people who sold the wii for 13k. Oct 27 22:13:49 * andyross still thinks Ant is a trick being played on us by the snickering java team, somehow. Oct 27 22:14:00 not quite though, because thats like.... 1k Oct 27 22:14:08 andyross: s/trick/joke/ Oct 27 22:14:12 Dougie187, I can't believe that people had 13k to pay for a wii Oct 27 22:14:16 fadden: so adb install doesn't seem to work Oct 27 22:14:24 fadden: you mentioned that dexopt.html, but i cant seem to find it Oct 27 22:14:24 tethridge: there were a couple of them on ebay for 13k. Oct 27 22:14:25 (or atleast I'm using it wrong) Oct 27 22:14:30 tethridge: right when they first came out. Oct 27 22:14:33 andyross: uhm, i know plenty about the process. Oct 27 22:14:43 umdk1d3: do you see dalvik/docs/ ? Oct 27 22:14:59 mitrho: what's the failure? (sometimes you have to use "adb logcat" to see what's barfing) Oct 27 22:15:12 Then why are you using eclipse? It's a serious question, nothing in the plugin does anything that an hour of work wouldn't teach you. Oct 27 22:15:15 The incredibly helpful "Failure" output isn't always helpful. Oct 27 22:15:20 so im looking in the sdk docs, and also tried source.android.com, but havent looked in git there yet Oct 27 22:15:46 ohthere we go, it was in git :) Oct 27 22:15:51 umdk1d3: it's in the git sources -- if you have the sources checked out it's in dalvik/docs. If not, it's in the "dalvik" sub-project. Oct 27 22:15:59 but git is meant for source management :P Oct 27 22:16:13 * andyross notes that the docs in question are in html, so the online git browser isn't very helpful in this case. Oct 27 22:16:17 These would be the "engineering documents". Oct 27 22:16:22 andyross: you can view raw Oct 27 22:16:22 andyross: click on the "raw" link Oct 27 22:16:30 Doh, beaten to the punch. Oct 27 22:16:39 although one could argure that "html" /is/ a type of source :P Oct 27 22:16:55 Where it fails is that some of the Dalvik spec docs have an accompanying .css file. Oct 27 22:17:02 So you can view them, but the formatting is off. Oct 27 22:17:03 Yes yes, I already have a checked out tree. But some of them use a css sheet, which (I think) doesn't come through. Oct 27 22:17:18 eye goetz awl muh sauce frum teh htmlz Oct 27 22:17:49 There are "engineering" versions of some of the other docs, but thankfully the Android Advocates team niced them up. Oct 27 22:18:30 At any rate, there's not much in dalvik/docs/ that you need to know to write apps for the platform. Oct 27 22:18:46 If you want to know how things work, though, there's some useful bits. Oct 27 22:18:49 its still curious tho :) Oct 27 22:19:13 OK, so I've finished crawling through the "assets" code and am back to where I started. AFAICT, the asset files are never unpacked from the .apk into real files on the device, right? So you can't intuit the path and try to mmap them as shared libraries. Oct 27 22:19:48 gah Oct 27 22:19:49 andyross: many of the assets are stored as uncompressed entries in an APK, which == zip Oct 27 22:19:57 f*cking ListView bug Oct 27 22:20:00 finally i can bitchx through ssh on my phone again Oct 27 22:20:03 If the entries are aligned on a 4-byte boundary, you can mmap them and use them directly. Oct 27 22:20:03 hoorj Oct 27 22:20:14 See: build/tools/zipalign Oct 27 22:20:44 brb talk Oct 27 22:20:46 how does one use adb to uninstall the something? Oct 27 22:20:46 Yeah, but not as shared libraries because the runtime linker doesn't play that way (but that's a good hint about being stored uncompressed, though, thanks). Oct 27 22:20:48 oh i meant to ask someone, is the internal filesystem heavily overlayed, similar to how a livecd overlays the ramdisk in certain folders? Oct 27 22:20:48 4 KILObyte :) Oct 27 22:21:03 mithro: adb uninstall package_name Oct 27 22:21:14 the reason i ask is that getCache() often returns a subdir under your app, but there is also a cache partition. is there some magic happening there? Oct 27 22:21:17 romainguy: yeah, only I can't figure out the package_name Oct 27 22:21:25 anyone playing with the brighness? i want dimmer than the brightness slider will allow Oct 27 22:21:31 andyross: see frameworks/base/core/java/android/app/ApplicationLoaders.java ? Oct 27 22:21:32 i tried AlarmClock, com.android.alarmclock com.android.AlarmClock Oct 27 22:21:36 umdk1d3: the cache dir is not for apps Oct 27 22:21:56 mithro: well what's the package name of th eapp you want to uninstall? Oct 27 22:21:57 so, where does say, the google maps activity store its tile cache? Oct 27 22:22:00 it just sais "Failure" Oct 27 22:22:17 umdk1d3: there's no local tile cache taht I'm aware of Oct 27 22:22:22 *the MapActivity Oct 27 22:22:33 ahh ic Oct 27 22:22:48 romainguy_: maps behaves like there is, even if it's only in-memory Oct 27 22:22:51 romainguy: the alarm clock - which I'm pretty sure the activity is called "AlarmClock" Oct 27 22:22:55 So basically, I can stuff native code into my .apk, but only if I write out a temporary file to the sqlite journal filesystem (the only writable area without noexec). That's limited to 4M total, though, which might be tight. I guess if I really wanted to be fancy, I could write an ELF loader in Java and do fixups on an anonymous mapping... Oct 27 22:23:05 romainguy_: that is, tiles that are off-screen hang around for a little bit Oct 27 22:23:06 gdsx: it has a memory cache, but certainly not a cache on the filesystem Oct 27 22:23:09 ok Oct 27 22:23:43 tim@vaio:~/oss/android$ adb uninstall AlarmClock Oct 27 22:23:43 Failure Oct 27 22:23:50 mithro: the Java package name Oct 27 22:23:53 not the application name Oct 27 22:23:58 as in adb unisntall com.android.alarmclock Oct 27 22:24:01 or whatever it's called Oct 27 22:24:28 tim@vaio:~/oss/android$ adb uninstall com.android.alarmclock Oct 27 22:24:29 Failure Oct 27 22:24:30 romainguy_ : Could you tell me if there is a possibility to buy this little Android in the last seconds of this video: http://vimeo.com/2077511 Oct 27 22:24:36 mithro: check the package name Oct 27 22:24:47 romainguy: and thats the name in the "package com.android.alarmclock;" at the top of the files Oct 27 22:24:48 I don't even know if that's the right one Oct 27 22:24:56 ok Oct 27 22:24:58 then I don't know Oct 27 22:25:09 I guess adb uninstall doesn't work on apks that are in /system Oct 27 22:25:14 why do you need to uninstall it? Oct 27 22:25:46 mithro: we had boxes of these around :) Oct 27 22:25:48 ask the advocates Oct 27 22:26:18 romainguy: so I can install the new version where I have added some features Oct 27 22:26:28 you don't need to uninstall it for this Oct 27 22:26:31 adb sync will do it Oct 27 22:26:36 at least if you adb remount first Oct 27 22:26:37 when do I do an adb sync it runs /system out of disk space Oct 27 22:26:40 adb remount Oct 27 22:27:20 I'll give it another try Oct 27 22:27:53 push: /home/tim/oss/android/out/target/product/generic//system/lib/libopencorecommon.so -> /system/lib/libopencorecommon.so Oct 27 22:27:54 failed to copy '/home/tim/oss/android/out/target/product/generic//system/lib/libopencorecommon.so' to '/system/lib/libopencorecommon.so': No space left on device Oct 27 22:27:54 tim@vaio:~/oss/android$ Oct 27 22:27:55 :( Oct 27 22:28:02 did you adb remount? Oct 27 22:28:06 yes Oct 27 22:28:33 then i don't know :) Oct 27 22:29:05 :( Oct 27 22:30:42 romainguy_: do you know if there's any information on google's formatting guidelines? Oct 27 22:30:51 read our code :) Oct 27 22:30:54 but in a nutshell: Oct 27 22:30:56 no tabs Oct 27 22:31:03 4 spaces indent (continuation indents = 8 spaces) Oct 27 22:31:09 the bracket goes on the same line Oct 27 22:31:22 always use { } if you have if/else Oct 27 22:31:22 yeah i am getting the gist of it, i just got tripped up by the no tabs ;) Oct 27 22:31:29 100 columns Oct 27 22:31:40 if you have one line in an if, you can remove the { } but the statement goes on the same line as the if Oct 27 22:31:59 as for the spaces around operators and stuff, look at files like TableLayout.java Oct 27 22:32:45 * jasta needs to learn more about Eclipse to set it up to edit code differently for Android :) Oct 27 22:32:46 ah and all fields prefixes with m Oct 27 22:32:49 static fields prefixed with s Oct 27 22:32:55 and public fields have no prefix Oct 27 22:33:08 yeah, i actually derived my style from Google on that one :) Oct 27 22:33:08 and we spell out words Oct 27 22:33:13 mithro: did you 'adb shell stop' first? If not, the library might have been in use, which means the old one is kept around, and you might not have enough space for both versions at the same time. Oct 27 22:33:16 anyone else got the problem, that applications appear multiple in the ANdroid-MArket-Developer-Console ? Oct 27 22:33:39 ok Oct 27 22:33:42 back to raping ListView Oct 27 22:34:07 marcone: that could be it Oct 27 22:34:08 romainguy_: we need to give you a different verb Oct 27 22:34:19 sorry Oct 27 22:34:21 "fixing" :) Oct 27 22:34:39 i sthere a google earth for android? Oct 27 22:34:48 there is for iphone! Oct 27 22:35:30 the people putting their email addresses in the market comments asking for help on what apps like connectbot do.. lmfao Oct 27 22:36:08 Qualcomm guy at tech talk: "We may not see any more Android devices until holiday 2009." (paraphrased) Oct 27 22:36:20 jasta: Since you've already submitted one, does the local git branchname get submitted in a patch, or am I free to choose what ever branchname is useful for me? Oct 27 22:36:40 tomgibara: it is for your purposes as best i can tell Oct 27 22:36:45 marcone: is "adb shell start" the opposite to "adb shell stop" ? Oct 27 22:36:48 yes Oct 27 22:36:49 ttuttle: perhaps he meant the Martin Luther King holiday... ;) Oct 27 22:37:20 jasta: Okay, thx Oct 27 22:37:28 The first 2009 holiday is Jan 1 ;) Oct 27 22:39:36 Why is it that writing a useful app hardly ever takes longer than a day, but writing it so that it's useful for other people almost invariably takes weeks? Oct 27 22:39:56 yeah Oct 27 22:40:04 I started work again on my bookshelves app this weekend Oct 27 22:40:07 I wrote the first working version of pinpoint in hours - that was weeks ago, and I'm still spending hours on it now. Oct 27 22:40:08 long weeks of work ahead :( Oct 27 22:40:12 and yet it works for me ^^ Oct 27 22:40:42 tomgibara: most games rarely get past the "graphics demo" phase for that reason. Oct 27 22:41:05 fadden: I'm sure you're right Oct 27 22:41:24 Making stuff work 90% well is easy. :-) Oct 27 22:42:37 I'm going to be getting my first Android game ready for release after I've finished pinpoint Oct 27 22:42:57 jt436: speaking of which, what's your game? :) Oct 27 22:43:31 tomgibara, awesome, please just don't release anything like those space wars and santa's game Oct 27 22:43:40 they made me cry Oct 27 22:44:02 how does one change the scheme of a sqlite database used by a program? Oct 27 22:44:30 look at the content provider Oct 27 22:44:40 there's database version field Oct 27 22:44:42 increment it Oct 27 22:44:47 that will trigger a call to onUpgrade Oct 27 22:44:48 languish: Hopefully, it won't reduce you to tears. It's very simple, but quite polished (considering that I'm doing it alone). Oct 27 22:44:50 romainguy_: Amazed, the open source game in apps-for-android Oct 27 22:45:07 in which you can ALTER the schema Oct 27 22:45:16 jt436: no, the one you were talking about on Friday Oct 27 22:45:33 romainguy_: ah, well you didn't come and say hello Oct 27 22:45:38 damn Oct 27 22:45:39 languish: I'm waiting till I have a device to check the performance and playability - useless to try on an emulator. Oct 27 22:46:09 romainguy_: lol, I gave you enough warning Oct 27 22:46:46 [18:44] st0ned was in costco earlier they had g1's. Oct 27 22:46:46 [18:45] same price, but no activation fee, and they give you a case, car charger and bt ear thingie. Oct 27 22:46:56 :/ Oct 27 22:47:20 tomgibara, cool :) Oct 27 22:47:36 anyone have any suggestions for speeding up the emulator? Oct 27 22:47:54 grim: Buy a faster computer? Oct 27 22:48:08 tomgibara: dual core 3.0ghz... should be plenty fast Oct 27 22:48:21 grim: why make it faster? Oct 27 22:48:23 Yeah, so why do you need a faster emulator? Oct 27 22:48:26 although it does seem to be better on the now, 3rd load... Oct 27 22:48:43 because it's taking too long (to me) to boot up Oct 27 22:48:58 grim: You should only need to boot once per dev session. Oct 27 22:49:02 I'm trying to check out the source for the first time, and I'm getting errors from the first repo init where it cannot find a "hooks" directory. Is this a known issue? Oct 27 22:51:18 is there a web site or irc channel dedicated to hacking the g1 yet? Oct 27 22:51:59 (I can paste the exact input and output if you'd like. This is git 1.5.4.5 and repo downloaded right now.) Oct 27 22:52:16 what do you mean "hacking it"? Oct 27 22:52:17 glasser`: hey, I know you' Oct 27 22:52:23 :o) Oct 27 22:52:29 glasser`: i just ran it fine about an hour ago... Oct 27 22:53:10 although, git fails horrible on debian x86_64 sid, with "unable to find -lstdc++" which was there and in my ld.so.conf.d... so yeah whatever... Oct 27 22:53:23 i mean getting root so sshd can be installed and launched Oct 27 22:53:41 t00ns1ll: you can run an sshd without having it listen on port 22 Oct 27 22:53:58 but don't you have to create a user? Oct 27 22:54:09 t00ns1ll: huh? Oct 27 22:54:28 I'm admittedly not sure what you'd do about authentication, though Oct 27 22:54:45 can you connect to sshd without a username/password? Oct 27 22:55:17 t00ns1ll: sure; key-based auth, for one Oct 27 22:55:19 but also wouldn't it be nice to be able to run vpnc? Oct 27 22:55:43 t00ns1ll: as non-root, you'd end up ssh'ing in and running stuff as the user sshd is running as, though Oct 27 22:57:24 very cool: http://brad.livejournal.com/2394707.html Oct 27 22:59:09 i would also like a way to scp files directly to the sd card. Oct 27 22:59:32 Hey, how do you launch the emulator in landscape mode? I've seen videos, never realized that was possible... Oct 27 23:00:11 tweakt: tap F12 or numpad 7 Oct 27 23:00:16 while running in portrait Oct 27 23:00:18 sweet! tnx Oct 27 23:00:28 emulator -help-keys lists some key combos. Looks like aspect change isn't listed though. Oct 27 23:01:14 hmm f12 doesn't work but numpad7 does for me... Oct 27 23:02:35 Ctrl-F12 Oct 27 23:03:00 Which is listed -- "next / previous layout" wasn't the description I expected Oct 27 23:03:23 ah, i think my wondow manager is eating ctrl-f12.. Oct 27 23:03:36 Yeah, that's why there are choices on that one. :-) Oct 27 23:03:57 heh Oct 27 23:03:57 ctrl-f12 works for me Oct 27 23:05:00 Ctrl-F12 Oct 27 23:05:09 tweakt: my window manager grabs ctrl-f# and uses it to jump to virtual desktop #, so yeah. not going to work right for me in the emulator ;) Oct 27 23:05:23 that sucks Oct 27 23:05:50 thats why theres numpad7 as well for it :) Oct 27 23:07:51 so, i was using vim from my g1, does anyone know how i might be able to send ESC key (using connectbot) Oct 27 23:08:56 hey where can I get the g1 end user manual? Oct 27 23:09:06 dcordes: hmm it was linked in here somewhere Oct 27 23:09:08 * umdk1d3 greps Oct 27 23:09:39 umdk1d3, thanks Oct 27 23:09:55 dcordes: http://support.t-mobile.com/knowbase/root/public/tm30234.pdf Oct 27 23:10:21 is there a way to do key based auth with connectbot? Oct 27 23:10:33 t00ns1ll: not yet, its still being written Oct 27 23:11:33 umdk1d3, thanks bro Oct 27 23:11:41 t00ns1ll: i see the menu option but it is grey'd out, im guessing future feature Oct 27 23:11:47 lo all Oct 27 23:12:01 rubyonlinux: you might be using an older version if you see it grayed out ;) Oct 27 23:12:10 in the market version that menu item was removed (for now) Oct 27 23:12:23 oh hehe Oct 27 23:13:34 umdk1d3, is that all of the physical documentation that comes with the g1? Oct 27 23:14:56 dcordes: not sure, you might try digging around the tmobiel knowbase tho Oct 27 23:15:14 umdk1d3, ok Oct 27 23:15:52 I have a different question. somebody knows a guide on producing images that is more detailed than http://source.android.com/download ? Oct 27 23:19:36 I wood like to make a tiny ( ~ 20MB ) root filesystem with the latest revision of code available. don't need browser/youtube/etc. only pim, calling, texting. Oct 27 23:19:51 * "I would like" lol Oct 27 23:21:54 sadly you couldnt flash that onto the G1 afaik Oct 27 23:22:35 nites Oct 27 23:23:00 umdk1d3, that's not a problem. can you help with the question though? Oct 27 23:23:10 when i connect the g1 to my linux box i'm unable to mount the sd card. fdisk doesn't recognize the partitions. am i missing a kernel configuration? Oct 27 23:23:14 any idea how I enable logs for a progress? Oct 27 23:23:30 I'm not seeing any output from my Log.v command Oct 27 23:24:14 seems like 1.1 of ConnectBot has problems... Oct 27 23:24:20 mithro: are you looking in logcat? Oct 27 23:24:57 jeld: we know there are still issues--be sure to document them on the google code issues page :) Oct 27 23:25:24 if you could be more specific though, that would be helpful Oct 27 23:26:00 umdk1d3, like "doesn't install" kind of issues? sure :) Oct 27 23:26:25 i'm looking in ddms Oct 27 23:26:30 umdk1d3, I just tried to install it from the market to no avail Oct 27 23:26:39 jeld: did you install it at any point before it was in market? Oct 27 23:26:58 looking in the "log" window Oct 27 23:27:00 umdk1d3, yup, had 1.0 already installed Oct 27 23:27:10 jeld: ah theres the issue Oct 27 23:27:13 the signatures are different Oct 27 23:27:18 youll have to uninstall the old version first Oct 27 23:27:22 sorry about that Oct 27 23:27:30 OK Oct 27 23:27:30 its documented on the connectbot frontpage tho Oct 27 23:27:55 umdk1d3, am I wrong assuming it is possible to produce such root filesystem with the google android buildsystem? Oct 27 23:28:34 dcordes: sorry, i havent tried building it yet--i think it might come out with a few .img files in the end tho Oct 27 23:28:50 idle around here for a bit tho, i know some people here have done it Oct 27 23:31:07 ok, cool. Oct 27 23:33:18 brb Oct 27 23:35:51 some g1 owners hanging out in here? Oct 27 23:36:25 hi, I've recently acquired the g-1 and I was wondering about attaching to it with adb. I'm running debian etch and i've managed to get udev to automount the vfat disk as /dev/sdb. I don't seem to be able to get adb to see the device though. Oct 27 23:37:00 I did that by creating a udev rule like so: SUBSYSTEMS=="usb", ATTRS{idVendor}=="0bb4", ATTRS{idProduct}=="0c02", Oct 27 23:37:00 MODE="0755", NAME="android", OWNER='ioerror' Oct 27 23:37:30 got michaelnovakjr's file browser running :) Oct 27 23:37:31 However, I'm finding the documentation on attaching adb for debian to be a little lacking and the ubuntu directions do not seem to work properly. Oct 27 23:38:21 ioerror: do you see /dev/bus/usb/ on your system? Oct 27 23:38:22 there is no way to check to see if a service is running allready or not? Oct 27 23:38:43 ioerror, what sort of licenses does the printed documentation you got with the phone keep? Oct 27 23:38:52 fadden, yes, I have /dev/bus/usb/{0-5} Oct 27 23:39:13 dcordes, printed documentation? The t-mobile stuff? Oct 27 23:39:14 dcordes: yes. is there another channel for g1 users? i've been asking off-topic questions about the g1 and i think i'm starting to upset people. Oct 27 23:39:27 ioerr: do you have an entry for the HTC device? (use "lsusb" to get the numbers) Oct 27 23:40:15 e.g. "Bus 001 Device 025: ID 0bb4:0c02 High Tech Computer Corp." --> "crw-rw-r-- 1 root plugdev 189, 24 Oct 27 16:22 /dev/bus/usb/001/025" Oct 27 23:40:39 (where "-->" means "use 001 and 025 as directory names") Oct 27 23:41:23 fadden, i have the following with lsusb: http://pastebin.com/d4d9bf6cd Oct 27 23:41:27 michaelnovakjr it's working Oct 27 23:41:51 ioerr: ls -l /dev/bus/usb/005/019 Oct 27 23:42:06 crw-rw-r-- 1 root root 189, 530 2008-10-27 16:40 /dev/bus/usb/005/019 Oct 27 23:42:43 It has owner=root and group=root, so unless you're in the "root" group you'll need to be root to access it. Oct 27 23:42:48 A permissions error, then Oct 27 23:42:48 ok Oct 27 23:43:06 Time to update my udev magic Oct 27 23:43:16 When I have working udev for debian etch, shall i come back to give them to you? Oct 27 23:43:18 Either that, or do everything as root. Getting udev to work is preferred. Oct 27 23:43:28 right, udev is better than root Oct 27 23:43:53 ioerror: should go to one of the Android Advocates, but I can forward them. Oct 27 23:44:04 Ok Oct 27 23:44:17 They need to update that page anyway -- misspelled "Gutsy" as "Gusty". :-) Oct 27 23:46:03 heh, probably so ;-) Oct 27 23:47:17 strange, udev doesn't seem to want to properly configure that device with nice permissions Oct 27 23:47:28 and in doing so, it no longer mounts the usb flash disk Oct 27 23:53:02 Why is apkbuilder putting my source code into the packages? Emacs backup files (e.g. "XBuilderFacadeFactoryListener.java~") are apparently being detected as "resources" by JavaResourceFilter :) Oct 27 23:56:21 andyross: argh. I'll fix this, sorry. Oct 27 23:58:23 romainguy_: I have a working fix for this: http://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=1094 Oct 27 23:58:44 FWIW: it seems like overloading the user-edittable source tree to also be the destination for resource drops may be a poor choice. Can't there be a "ressrc" or somesuch too? Oct 27 23:59:13 wat the my phone just completed died Oct 27 23:59:22 serial0, red/green/blue/white screen Oct 27 23:59:23 o_O Oct 28 00:00:09 t00ns1ll, sorry I don't know. I'm only a guest as well. Oct 28 00:00:41 andyross: kind of agree here. We should put the generated java file (from resources or aidl) somewhere else Oct 28 00:00:43 ioerror, well I mean all of the printed doku you got in the box with the g1 Oct 28 00:01:03 romainguy_: I have a working fix for this: http://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=1094 Oct 28 00:01:04 dcordes, there's a bunch of stuff in there Oct 28 00:01:17 tomgibara: what's the fix? Oct 28 00:01:37 michaelnovakjr__: hey question about the file browser you wrote--does it offer a PICK intent for other apps to pick files? Oct 28 00:02:15 umdk1d3: i'm going to add it in Oct 28 00:02:42 romainguy_: Well, it's bothering me :( It's *a fix* to *a bug*, but I still can't say why it triggers the observed behaviour: In short the Animation class divides by the duration without checking for zero. Oct 28 00:02:42 kk cool :) it would be awesome if connectbot could use it to pick privatekeys Oct 28 00:02:43 now that it runs on a device, i'm going to update it Oct 28 00:02:48 ioerror, did you read it? :) Oct 28 00:02:52 umdk1d3: you got it :) Oct 28 00:03:26 tomgibara: sounds like Animation should just throw an IllegalArgumentException in setDuration if the duration is 0 Oct 28 00:03:35 dcordes, i didn't see any section on debian etch udev configuration, i admit i might have missed it :-) Oct 28 00:04:28 romainguy_: I wasn't sure if zero was valid or not, so I put an IAE if duration < 0 and put a guard so that if the duration is zero, the normalizedTime becomes 1f Oct 28 00:04:48 I would put the IAE in setDuration if duration <= 0 Oct 28 00:04:53 and remove the guard Oct 28 00:04:57 okay Oct 28 00:05:03 the less we do in that code path, the better :) Oct 28 00:05:15 Yes, I wondered about that Oct 28 00:06:15 ioerror, sorry I'm only curious about the end user license agreements shipped in the box :) I'm using lenny now, if I had the g1 I sure would try and help. Oct 28 00:06:22 well the only reason to have a duration of 0 would be to apply a transformation on a new Oct 28 00:06:32 which you can do by just having fillBefore=true and never starting the animation Oct 28 00:07:23 ah, ok. I'd been trying to do something similar when I'd tripped over this bug Oct 28 00:07:53 I ended up producing my own simple Animation impl. Oct 28 00:08:44 dcordes, ah Oct 28 00:21:36 how can i procedurally get the version of my app? Oct 28 00:21:52 from the manifest Oct 28 00:21:58 for updates Oct 28 00:21:59 mpardo: ive got code somewhere /me digs up Oct 28 00:22:05 k thx Oct 28 00:22:14 u publish ur app today? Oct 28 00:22:24 mpardo: or you could use http://www.tomgibara.com/android/veecheck/ if your looking for something advanced Oct 28 00:22:50 mpardo: http://code.google.com/p/connectbot/source/browse/trunk/connectbot/src/org/connectbot/util/UpdateHelper.java Oct 28 00:23:04 =O pcjjman Oct 28 00:25:27 mpardo: re: veecheck I'm going to be changing the licence to something more commercial friendly (apache prob) so I'm turning a blind eye to transgressions at this time. Oct 28 00:26:15 fadden, still here? Oct 28 00:26:40 fadden, http://pastebin.com/d1e285653 Oct 28 00:27:03 fadden, that udev rule sets up /dev/android like so: Oct 28 00:27:18 http://pastebin.com/m1fd7ff99 Oct 28 00:28:08 Strangely enough, now the adb can't see it but it can mount Oct 28 00:31:52 grr anybody remember the debug.keystore password? Oct 28 00:32:49 damn you plusminus_ :P i just burnt my pizza Oct 28 00:33:02 your timer app doesnt run when the phone falls asleep Oct 28 00:33:05 its okay tho :P Oct 28 00:35:00 umdk1d3: the password is android for both they keystore and the key (easy to remember :)) Oct 28 00:35:17 xavd: awesome thx ^.^ Oct 28 00:36:03 why do you need it anyway? are you making your own debug keystore? Oct 28 00:37:22 what values is "public void schedule(TimerTask task, long delay, long period)" in? I guessed seconds, but it seems like it might be milliseconds? Oct 28 00:37:23 xavd: someones eclipse borked and we still needed to sign an apk to resolve a package manager issue Oct 28 00:38:15 mithro: milliseconds Oct 28 00:38:27 romainguy: could the doco be updated to include that information? :) Oct 28 00:38:30 mithro: all delays and periods, unless specified otherwise, are in ms in our APIs Oct 28 00:38:35 umdk1d3: if you delete the keystore, eclipse should recreate it automatically. If you need to sign a app manually you may as well make a real key Oct 28 00:38:53 mithro: isnt't that the Harmony APIs? Oct 28 00:38:56 I thought that was specified Oct 28 00:39:15 Harmony APIs? Oct 28 00:39:29 the java.* packages Oct 28 00:40:20 xavd: he had a package that didnt get uninstalled all the way Oct 28 00:40:25 so he was stuck between rock+hard place Oct 28 00:41:02 remnants of the package with his debug key was stuck in the package mangaer, not letting another version into its place Oct 28 00:41:03 umdk1d3: oh so you're just signing the package manually with the debug key? Oct 28 00:41:14 right, because the manager needed to see that key to let it in Oct 28 00:41:22 it worked for him to install it, then uninstall it Oct 28 00:41:27 the first uninstall wasnt fully clean Oct 28 00:42:05 ok cool. sorry for being inquisitive, I'm just curious about how people deal with the key/signing stuff as feedback to improve the tools Oct 28 00:42:27 xavd: i know this package manager issue has come up several times tho Oct 28 00:42:35 with connectbot, some older versions were signed with an old key Oct 28 00:42:45 according to the market-- connectbot's had between 1K-5K downloads.. 87 ratings Oct 28 00:42:50 yeah, we are aware of it Oct 28 00:42:53 when people uninstalled it, somehow stuff was left in the mangaer Oct 28 00:43:12 weve kept around all the old apks just in case, but in this case he had done his own build Oct 28 00:43:30 lol im talking like hes not even here lol, sorry cpdiety :) Oct 28 00:48:03 SanMehat: NeTTwerk as in the music label? Oct 28 00:48:26 yeah Oct 28 00:48:38 ooh :) andy hunter Oct 28 00:54:33 New sprint plans this coming weekend supposedly. Oct 28 00:58:27 word Oct 28 00:59:22 greetings Oct 28 01:05:33 is there a flash player plugin out yet? Oct 28 01:06:11 ? Oct 28 01:06:24 flash? Oct 28 01:06:35 for what browser? Oct 28 01:06:37 ya Oct 28 01:06:48 for the android browser Oct 28 01:06:58 to view videos on cnn Oct 28 01:07:07 I would be amazed if one did exist considering iphone's safari does not have one Oct 28 01:07:38 if you can watch youtube,why not flash Oct 28 01:08:01 maybe they have built a special viewer for a specific codec in android Oct 28 01:08:15 to specifically view youtube vids Oct 28 01:08:18 hm,not yet Oct 28 01:08:22 oh Oct 28 01:08:23 anyone tried that horrible virtual pet app? Oct 28 01:08:24 ya Oct 28 01:08:27 it's hilarious Oct 28 01:08:31 also horrible Oct 28 01:08:34 wasterl omg gay Oct 28 01:08:34 no i read the reviews Oct 28 01:09:02 i cant believe they let shitty apps like that on the market Oct 28 01:09:54 oh you have no idea Oct 28 01:09:58 wait until i release mine! Oct 28 01:10:11 lol Oct 28 01:12:29 er Oct 28 01:12:37 I thought the whole point of the market was not to be a filter Oct 28 01:13:06 woot! Oct 28 01:13:14 my modification works Oct 28 01:14:14 yeah just wait, PictureFrame® --- Because Frames are Hot™ is going to be a best seller Oct 28 01:14:35 i think i saw 3 flashlight apps Oct 28 01:14:53 lol Oct 28 01:17:13 . Oct 28 01:18:15 yay OTA Oct 28 01:18:37 Organic Trade Association? Oct 28 01:18:46 RC28 upgrade? Oct 28 01:18:51 over the air install Oct 28 01:18:55 spikebike: I guess Oct 28 01:19:05 you just got it? Oct 28 01:19:06 3 wikipedia apps already on market Oct 28 01:19:12 jeeze Oct 28 01:19:17 lol Oct 28 01:19:30 hmmm do i risk an ota update Oct 28 01:19:38 another weather app? Oct 28 01:20:32 this is why i thought code.google for android should have been better organized. some overlap, but less of it Oct 28 01:20:57 code.google.com has nothing to do with it Oct 28 01:21:07 and if people want to write 20 weather apps, then so be it Oct 28 01:21:12 agreed Oct 28 01:21:14 I'm just surprised by how fast they all arrived :) Oct 28 01:21:14 it's gonna keep going like this for the dev's that don't have g1's to see what's actually in the market Oct 28 01:21:17 ahh Oct 28 01:21:18 lol Oct 28 01:21:27 it should get better since before today it was hard to tell what the rest of the population was going to write Oct 28 01:21:41 but yeah Oct 28 01:21:46 it'd be nice to browse apps on the web site Oct 28 01:21:49 or on the emulator Oct 28 01:21:50 are there any I Am Rich apps? Oct 28 01:21:51 any chance there's going to be a web-based list of what apps are in the market? Oct 28 01:21:55 nod Oct 28 01:22:02 market Oct 28 01:22:11 oops Oct 28 01:22:15 duey: roooofl we totally need one Oct 28 01:22:19 speaking of apps Oct 28 01:22:19 obv Oct 28 01:22:21 time to work on mine Oct 28 01:22:23 * duey makes one Oct 28 01:24:35 does the status of android market developer console only refresh every few hours? my app status is been remain the same for quite some time... Oct 28 01:25:04 it should be real time Oct 28 01:30:45 how does android handle dependencies? Like lets say one app needs a file picker provided by another... Oct 28 01:31:01 it's not handled right now Oct 28 01:31:01 uh Oct 28 01:31:10 we're thinking about it :) Oct 28 01:31:15 :) Oct 28 01:31:18 yeah, it's good question Oct 28 01:31:19 good thinking romainguy Oct 28 01:31:21 it's a good quesiton Oct 28 01:31:30 Hmm Oct 28 01:31:41 why would another app provide file pickers.. Oct 28 01:31:41 that said when you startActivity() for an intent that doesn't exist, you get an exception back Oct 28 01:31:41 its a difficult problem too Oct 28 01:31:48 duey: and there's that too Oct 28 01:31:52 @!# file choosers Oct 28 01:31:56 its taken a long time to linux distros to get their managers to a usable state Oct 28 01:32:01 i just copied what he said... Oct 28 01:32:02 :D Oct 28 01:32:21 we need a file chooser tho :P Oct 28 01:32:25 no Oct 28 01:32:27 duey-- example michaelnovakjr__ has a file browser that ConnectBot might want to use to find sshkeys.. Oct 28 01:32:36 exactly Oct 28 01:32:42 or rather to allow the user to find their own sshkey off the sdcard Oct 28 01:32:53 and you can't provide that why? Oct 28 01:32:53 it makes sense Oct 28 01:33:02 why build it in Oct 28 01:33:13 why not use the same one across multiple apps? Oct 28 01:33:14 rather than include all the code in ConnectBot it would be better to have michaelnovakjr__ offer the file chooser as a seperate app so others can use it too and so there's no repetition of code Oct 28 01:33:18 exactly Oct 28 01:33:24 I agree on one level, but surely there are security problems with allowing that kind of access between apps Oct 28 01:33:30 that's true too Oct 28 01:33:35 more than just that--later when it has SCP the file picker will become even more important Oct 28 01:33:44 yes that'st rue Oct 28 01:33:49 duey: theres no permissions--i ask him to choose a file and return its name to me Oct 28 01:34:01 but duey makes a good point about security.. how does connectbot know that filepicker.app is pointing to what it says it's pointing to Oct 28 01:34:06 and it doesn't run system calls outside the File class Oct 28 01:34:21 true, security is important Oct 28 01:34:39 i'll take a file chooser over a virtual pet :) Oct 28 01:34:41 connectbot is trusting filepicker to return the user's choice Oct 28 01:34:53 hmm true Oct 28 01:34:58 although I suppose it could verify with the user "do you mean XXXX?" Oct 28 01:35:11 but i think thats the point, we dont want to create any explicit trust relationships Oct 28 01:35:21 "you have to use Brand X app with Brand Y app" Oct 28 01:35:31 intents are meant to be interchangable Oct 28 01:35:41 yes Oct 28 01:35:50 but yes there are some risks i suppose Oct 28 01:35:51 when you're choosing an sshkey for example, trust is important. You don't want ConnectBot to install a key it thinks the user picked but was really downloaded from evil.com. Oct 28 01:36:02 very true Oct 28 01:36:21 well in that case, they just try that evil.com key against a host that wont let them in with that key Oct 28 01:36:40 the intent will return a file path to the key Oct 28 01:36:40 so why couldn't a portion of the fs be jailed for application access? Oct 28 01:36:58 some parts are Oct 28 01:37:08 your malicious app could create a "wrapper" file Oct 28 01:37:08 well yeah, in that case the key won't work, true. But you get the point Oct 28 01:37:18 by adding a "." at the end or something Oct 28 01:37:33 it would have same name, so user doesnt think anything of it (if we prompt them), but they still get evil file Oct 28 01:37:39 Personally, I think you are worrying too much, if a file picker ends up not picking the correct file somebody will replace it (and fast) Oct 28 01:38:05 lenolium if this is the "designated" file picker by another app tho... Oct 28 01:38:08 that could also happen on your computer :) Oct 28 01:38:45 its not a blackhole either, it will/is open source Oct 28 01:38:49 but you're more likely to d/l untrusted stuff on your device than on your computer because it's supposedly sandboxed Oct 28 01:40:08 I could see the file picker or whaever it was called being used by a LOT of applications Oct 28 01:40:25 yes, its meant to be simple Oct 28 01:40:28 yeah Oct 28 01:40:30 exactly Oct 28 01:40:34 and very fundimental Oct 28 01:40:51 it can be used almost as a File->Open... type of thing Oct 28 01:40:57 or File->Save... Oct 28 01:41:05 from any app Oct 28 01:41:49 its open to possibilities... i feel it serves a good purpose Oct 28 01:42:01 especially for connectbot, provides a UI to key management Oct 28 01:42:26 yeah but I could see it for like finding files to attach to emails for example Oct 28 01:42:35 sure Oct 28 01:42:36 from your sdcard Oct 28 01:42:52 any app that deals at the file-level with the sdcard would use it Oct 28 01:43:25 I'm suprised this wasn't built into android itself Oct 28 01:44:13 like i said, there's the really early version available that was ported from m5, just doesn't have the intent setup yet Oct 28 01:44:22 needs work Oct 28 01:44:25 right, oh for sure.. Oct 28 01:44:25 there's a reason most windowing OSs include a file picker :) Oct 28 01:44:33 yeah.. exactly Disconnect Oct 28 01:44:43 maybe this will be included in SDK 1.1 Oct 28 01:44:58 I'm still trying to understand the concerns here? Applications already read write and create files, and the sdcard is freely accessible ...why not allow a sd file picker? Oct 28 01:45:16 jcanfield_: its been tested to work Oct 28 01:45:26 what's m5? Oct 28 01:45:28 jcanfield_: the concern is only that everyone is going to have to write their own OR someone will become the standard Oct 28 01:45:35 m5 = earlier version of android Oct 28 01:45:50 it works- it's running on my device Oct 28 01:45:55 albeit slightly buggy :) Oct 28 01:46:01 oh and random side note.. for football fans.. the pro football app times are offset - missed most of the skins game yesterday cuz the app said 4pm and the reality said 1pm :( Oct 28 01:46:28 :) yes buggy Oct 28 01:46:37 aww, but hey, that's the linux way....shouldn't we have 20 crappy file managers? Oct 28 01:46:49 haha Oct 28 01:47:48 i'd settle for 1. except it takes root access for a decent file manager in android.. oops, oh well. can't let the users hurt themselves....... Oct 28 01:48:13 it's not about hurting the users Oct 28 01:48:14 Disconnect: depends on your needs... Oct 28 01:48:21 file managers are just clunky geeky beasts from ancient times Oct 28 01:48:23 i don't think root is necessary Oct 28 01:48:25 michaelnovakjr_: ability to manage files Oct 28 01:48:39 you can manage your sdcard Oct 28 01:48:44 but since there are tens to dozens of users on a well-used phone.. Oct 28 01:49:25 * Disconnect had a file manager on his s60 phone, never once managed to stab himself in the eye with it or accidentally incinerate any household pets... Oct 28 01:50:03 i think if you look at it as a file-picker instead of a file manager the uses become obvious Oct 28 01:50:26 anyone who will use their phone w/files in any way... Oct 28 01:50:42 sending attachments.. moving stuff to/from their sdcard, etc. Oct 28 01:51:05 they could do it all on their computers OR on their phone w/a decent file manager Oct 28 01:52:31 this is frustrating :'( some users cannot install my apps because android says they are not correcty signed :'( where installing works smoothly with others :/ Oct 28 01:52:35 even the tmob guys were bitching about no pdf/doc viewer, no file manager, etc Oct 28 01:52:51 plusminus- probably they had a previous version signed w/another key Oct 28 01:53:07 there are pdf viewers written in java-- i checked. Oct 28 01:53:10 oh that could be ... Oct 28 01:53:16 damn Oct 28 01:53:37 plusminus_: what they need to do is re-install those older versions and then uninstall them before trying to install your newer version Oct 28 01:54:28 is there any way to run the binary maps app against a basesystem compiled from the open-source version? Oct 28 01:58:19 anybody here have the android source building in cygwin? Oct 28 02:00:46 woo flex and bison .. haven't done those since college :P Oct 28 02:02:26 waldo_: I just checked and via the PackageManager your app can query whether an Intent can be responded to on the system Oct 28 02:02:41 nice Oct 28 02:02:44 for instance I just changed my app to check whether the SCAN intent is available when the user opens the menu Oct 28 02:02:55 and I gray it out if it cannot be used Oct 28 02:03:19 http://pastebin.com/m505a2724 Oct 28 02:03:48 that is good to have :) Oct 28 02:04:01 i must say android is a well designed platform :) Oct 28 02:06:53 for some reason networking doesn't work in the simulator Oct 28 02:07:01 it worked before on the SDK builds Oct 28 02:07:11 is there something new I need to setup ? Oct 28 02:07:41 could you install this on a plam centro? Oct 28 02:08:28 romainguy yeah it's good... and I guess you can use it to make a suggestion to the end user that "Such and such app is required for this feature. go to the market and install it to unlock this." Oct 28 02:08:33 yep Oct 28 02:08:40 until we have better ways to do this Oct 28 02:08:56 ah just got repo going on cygwin Oct 28 02:08:57 nice Oct 28 02:08:59 :) Oct 28 02:09:44 * DJTachyon should get his Sun ULTRA1 SPARC machine up and running. It runs a 64-bit build of Gentoo ;) Oct 28 02:11:48 when I try to turn on wifi it says "unable to start wifi" Oct 28 02:12:24 foobar``: yah with 3g you don't need wifi. Oct 28 02:12:36 im talking about the simulator Oct 28 02:12:38 is there a shell app that doesn't require the SDK? Oct 28 02:12:58 does the simulator use a fake wifi or fake ppp connection Oct 28 02:12:59 ? Oct 28 02:14:09 it's an emulator btw Oct 28 02:14:15 Oct 28 02:14:17 gngn Oct 28 02:14:18 pedantic Oct 28 02:14:58 heh gnupg informed me that I am using insecure memory Oct 28 02:14:59 :P Oct 28 02:15:13 DJTachyon: /me has lotsa sparc here Oct 28 02:15:52 hehehe Oct 28 02:16:00 hrm Oct 28 02:16:10 i tried for days to get the 2x2GB SCSI drives to SW RAID Oct 28 02:16:34 apparently the Ultra1 needed a BIOS upgrade to even run in 64-bit mode, but I managed to get it to work Oct 28 02:17:12 w00t .. just got the repo sync on cygwin .. but i couldn't find some of those dev lib's .. I hope I can build Oct 28 02:17:40 does cygwin even have an arm toolchain? Oct 28 02:17:47 good question Oct 28 02:17:48 Are you trying to build on Windows? Oct 28 02:17:56 hehehe .. yeah figured I would give it a shot Oct 28 02:18:17 before I broke the Ultra1 out of the moving box Oct 28 02:18:58 wow 680k/sec from a version server Oct 28 02:18:59 :P Oct 28 02:19:20 i want to work on low-level audio API calls Oct 28 02:19:40 networking should work in the emulator...right? Oct 28 02:20:40 you mean internet and such foobar? Oct 28 02:20:44 yq Oct 28 02:20:45 yes Oct 28 02:20:48 yeah of course Oct 28 02:20:54 it uses your internet connection Oct 28 02:20:56 yeah Oct 28 02:20:58 you can browse the internet through it Oct 28 02:20:59 have you used it Oct 28 02:21:02 in linux? Oct 28 02:21:02 yeah Oct 28 02:21:04 oh Oct 28 02:21:06 no :P Oct 28 02:21:07 with the new source release? Oct 28 02:21:09 i mean Oct 28 02:21:12 have you used it at all Oct 28 02:21:15 with the new source released Oct 28 02:21:19 it worked for the previous SDK releases for me Oct 28 02:21:22 it doesn't work now Oct 28 02:21:24 well i just finished updating eclipse Oct 28 02:21:26 let me check Oct 28 02:22:09 did you blow away the entire eclipse/sdk install and start from scratch? I had to do that once Oct 28 02:22:19 ? Oct 28 02:22:29 you don't build with eclipse Oct 28 02:22:37 oh well im running the emulator right now Oct 28 02:22:45 for which release Oct 28 02:22:47 1.0 Oct 28 02:22:53 ill check internet Oct 28 02:22:56 the 1.0 SDK pre-release Oct 28 02:22:57 or Oct 28 02:23:10 android-sdk-windows-1.0_r1 Oct 28 02:23:14 fully-from-source compiled Oct 28 02:23:17 yeah Oct 28 02:23:19 im not talking about that Oct 28 02:23:22 ah okay Oct 28 02:23:29 i hear yea Oct 28 02:23:43 im not there yet Oct 28 02:24:00 still doing my repo sync at 650k/sec Oct 28 02:24:00 :P Oct 28 02:24:15 no idea what will happen when i try to make Oct 28 02:24:54 alright well im gonna let this run Oct 28 02:24:56 goodnight all Oct 28 02:33:21 argh, uploading a new version will still erase downloads/comments :( Oct 28 02:33:31 yeah :( Oct 28 02:33:49 * jt436 is tempted not to upload until its fixed Oct 28 02:35:09 I just added random vibrations to throw the user off while using the accelerometer Oct 28 02:35:32 and some other fixes suggested Oct 28 02:35:43 romainguy__ even comments? Oct 28 02:35:56 some of the comments are actually useful, other's..... well they are on YouTube level Oct 28 02:36:11 michaelnovakjr__: yes Oct 28 02:36:24 that is pretty annoying Oct 28 02:36:50 tell me about it Oct 28 02:39:25 what's your app? Oct 28 02:41:47 is there any sort of horizontal scrolling panel? Oct 28 02:42:51 one of the apps used that Oct 28 02:42:56 hang on Oct 28 02:43:36 * waldo_ is away: back in a few Oct 28 02:44:10 fadden: ping Oct 28 02:44:11 d03boy, task switcher Oct 28 02:44:16 it's in the market Oct 28 02:44:39 at least that's what I think you mean Oct 28 02:44:47 i'd look it up but I cant google the link for the market Oct 28 02:44:54 one sec Oct 28 02:44:56 why doesnt it show up at the top of my "android market" search Oct 28 02:45:23 hi! does somebody knows how to change target when making, for release or debug? Oct 28 02:46:23 ant release does it solca, if you are using the command line Oct 28 02:47:04 swetland are you around? Oct 28 02:47:17 michaelnovakjr__: I just typed make and everything is in out/... but I presume is for release Oct 28 02:47:37 michaelnovakjr__: how I change that for debug? Oct 28 02:47:50 anyone try to build for target = x86? Oct 28 02:48:03 solca: is there a build.xml file for the app solca ? Oct 28 02:48:44 michaelnovakjr__: oh sorry, I must say I'm compiling the android OS, I want to test it on real armv6 box Oct 28 02:48:54 ah Oct 28 02:49:01 haven't done that yet myself Oct 28 02:49:34 ok thanks Oct 28 02:51:10 d03boy the devs email is jasonparekh@gmail.com but I don't see a page for him Oct 28 02:51:17 i mean related to his app Oct 28 02:51:26 hmm Oct 28 02:51:30 i'll find something Oct 28 02:51:31 he's got a blog and dozen other hits otherwise Oct 28 02:51:44 he may be onna the google guys Oct 28 02:53:48 hey, does anyone know what the difference is between notifyDataSetChanged and notifyDataSetInvalidated in BaseAdapter? Oct 28 02:53:55 yeah Oct 28 02:54:04 when you invalidate the data that means that the adapter should not be used anymore Oct 28 02:54:19 (let's say when you empty all the data) Oct 28 02:55:39 k, thought it might be something along those lines. are there any concrete effects to calling invalidate? does the list clear or something? Oct 28 02:56:06 which invalidate? Oct 28 02:56:12 invalidate() redraws the view Oct 28 02:56:21 invalidateChildren() forces ListView to rebuild its children anew Oct 28 02:56:36 notifyDatasetInvalidated() tells ListView to stop using the adapter Oct 28 02:56:55 (at least until you put data back in the adapter) Oct 28 02:57:10 * waldo_ is away: auto-away Oct 28 02:57:31 how I change target when making the Android OS source code, for release or debug? Oct 28 02:57:46 romainguy: thx Oct 28 02:59:13 d03boy, yeah, the app itself is credited to the guy I mentioned, but it has a google EULA Oct 28 02:59:32 which app? Oct 28 02:59:37 task switcher Oct 28 02:59:41 ah yes Oct 28 02:59:48 I like task switcher ^^ **** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue Oct 28 02:59:57 2008