**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Nov 18 02:59:56 2008
Nov 18 03:00:02 <waldo> damm hope so cuz I'm gonna start using it to charge things :)
Nov 18 03:00:06 <waldo> and we'll see what happens
Nov 18 03:00:41 <wastrel> so can you play music over the bluetooth headset?
Nov 18 03:01:28 <waldo> good question i should try that
Nov 18 03:04:13 <spikebike> well many chargers I have are 0.5 amps at 5v
Nov 18 03:04:22 <spikebike> the g1 is supposed to have 1amp at 5v
Nov 18 03:04:25 <Disconnect> spikebike: standard usb iirc
Nov 18 03:04:42 <spikebike> usb is I believe 5 watts per pair of ports
Nov 18 03:06:21 <Leeds> wastrel: no :-(
Nov 18 03:06:22 <spikebike> "hi power" usb devices are supposed to draw no more than 500ma
Nov 18 03:06:48 <wastrel> would be nice to be able to push all audio over bluetooth
Nov 18 03:06:49 <wastrel> ah well
Nov 18 03:06:57 <unix_remote> spikebike: mostusb ports are only rated at 900mA tops
Nov 18 03:07:18 <Leeds> probably my number 1 'need'
Nov 18 03:08:53 <unix_remote> anyone know of some decently done android screencasts?
Nov 18 03:09:12 <unix_remote> preferably CC or open license.
Nov 18 03:12:40 <unix_remote> anyone?
Nov 18 03:22:45 <z4chh> does android involve c programming at all?
Nov 18 03:27:31 <andyross> z4chh: The official API is all Java.  Native code is possible though, with a little study of the open source release.
Nov 18 03:31:21 <skbohra> where will i find the complied image of android
Nov 18 03:31:41 <gambler> Buy a G1 holla
Nov 18 03:31:54 <skbohra> i just complied it
Nov 18 03:32:38 <skbohra> i got three .img files
Nov 18 03:33:57 <skbohra> how to compile android for a specific target
Nov 18 03:36:05 <d03boy> goats goats goats goats
Nov 18 03:36:11 <wastrel> drm is bad
Nov 18 03:36:12 <d03boy> developers developers developers developers developers
Nov 18 03:42:32 <skbohra> :(
Nov 18 03:43:53 <Leeds> skbohra: has android been ported to your platform, whatever it is?
Nov 18 03:48:30 <skbohra> Leeds: I think i just successfully compiled it
Nov 18 03:48:46 <Leeds> for what platform?
Nov 18 03:49:04 <skbohra> don't know :)
Nov 18 03:49:33 <Leeds> er...
Nov 18 03:50:02 <d03boy> platform shoes
Nov 18 03:51:48 <skbohra> linux x86
Nov 18 03:53:44 <skbohra> Leeds: I think I need to learn more
Nov 18 03:53:58 <Leeds> yes, I think you probably do
Nov 18 03:54:09 <Leeds> I know I do :-)
Nov 18 03:54:19 <Leeds> what are you trying to achieve?
Nov 18 03:55:45 <skbohra> Leeds: I want to port it on real hardware
Nov 18 03:55:56 <Leeds> what hardware?
Nov 18 03:56:15 <skbohra> Leeds : freerunner
Nov 18 03:56:30 <Leeds> and is the freerunner an x86 device?
Nov 18 03:56:37 <skbohra> Leeds: no
Nov 18 03:56:39 <Leeds> (also, I believe people have already ported it)
Nov 18 03:56:46 <Leeds> so why are you trying to build Android for x86?
Nov 18 03:57:16 <skbohra> Leeds: where to specify the architecture
Nov 18 03:57:25 <unix_remote> it's already been "ported" to quite a few non android devices.
Nov 18 03:57:29 <Leeds> no idea!
Nov 18 03:57:36 <unix_remote> obviously not everything is functional.
Nov 18 03:57:39 <skbohra> Leeds: ahhh
Nov 18 03:57:45 <Leeds> unix_remote: but are they all ARM?
Nov 18 03:57:46 <ExpiredPopsicle> I'm actually curious as to how well Android would work on my tablet PC.
Nov 18 03:58:01 <ExpiredPopsicle> But just curious.
Nov 18 03:58:06 <unix_remote> Leeds: heh, yes afaik.
Nov 18 03:59:57 <atari2600a> I has a question
Nov 18 04:00:14 <`vip_> ??
Nov 18 04:00:21 <atari2600a> does apple have an official opinion on android being haxxed up & installed on other phones?
Nov 18 04:00:33 <offby1> I haz a flavor
Nov 18 04:00:38 <Leeds> I think there was a suggestion on TWiT that Android was meant to be a trojan horse, an attempt for Google to introduce a platform which could then be moved to PCs
Nov 18 04:00:41 <Leeds> er, apple?
Nov 18 04:00:53 <offby1> atari2600a: I'd be very surprised if anyone here knew the answer to that
Nov 18 04:01:01 <Leeds> atari2600a: do you mean google?
Nov 18 04:01:10 <atari2600a> was that tonight's TWiT?
Nov 18 04:01:18 <Leeds> nah, a few weeks back
Nov 18 04:01:24 <atari2600a> Leeds: google or any employed-by-google devs
Nov 18 04:01:33 <Leeds> so not Apple then? :-)
Nov 18 04:01:36 <atari2600a> oh yeah I remember that episode!
Nov 18 04:02:08 <atari2600a> but yeah, according to Wikipedia, Android was successfully installed on 2 phones other than the G1
Nov 18 04:02:35 <atari2600a> hey there's ops here!
Nov 18 04:02:41 <Leeds> anyway, I would guess the answer is "Google corporate is cautiously happy, but would prefer to do platform deals than have it hacked on, Google devs are really happy to see people playing with Android and probably have a beer every time it's ported to a new device"
Nov 18 04:02:48 <atari2600a> over in #chromium they said Freenode hates ops!
Nov 18 04:02:49 <ttuttle> Good evening #android.
Nov 18 04:03:06 <ttuttle> Freenode does hate ops.
Nov 18 04:03:10 <jbq> Leeds: and we'd want to see more ports so that we could have more beer!
Nov 18 04:03:11 <ecubuntu> hey guys i'm looking for install IRC client on G1, did you know something?
Nov 18 04:03:25 <ttuttle> They generally suggest that channel ops don't leave their ops turned on, to avoid flaunting them.
Nov 18 04:03:27 <Leeds> atari2600a: I'm an op in a couple of channels, and the general idea is to only take your @ when you need it
Nov 18 04:03:38 <Leeds> jbq: good!  how do we contribute to the beer fund? :-)
Nov 18 04:03:50 <ecubuntu> hey guys i'm looking for install IRC client on G1, did you know something?
Nov 18 04:04:02 <atari2600a> ecubuntu: has Pidgin been ported to Android yet?
Nov 18 04:04:18 <ecubuntu> no yet atari2600a
Nov 18 04:04:24 <atari2600a> aww
Nov 18 04:04:41 <Leeds> there are at least a couple of IRC clients under development... and porting *anything* native from 'linux' to 'android' is going to take a long time because it'll need to be rewritten in Java...
Nov 18 04:04:42 <atari2600a> my bestest friend Adrian Lamo has Pidgin on his Nokia 810 I believe
Nov 18 04:04:43 <jbq> Leeds: at the risk of other droids shouting at me, I'd like to see more Android on the OpenMoko devices. They might not be the best, but they're meant to be used that way.
Nov 18 04:05:01 <jbq> N810 is also a good target.
Nov 18 04:05:23 <jbq> (probably much easier to port to)
Nov 18 04:05:41 <Leeds> I'd be quite happy to see the xda-developers hackers take on Android... get it on as many HTC devices as possible :-)
Nov 18 04:06:04 <atari2600a> so
Nov 18 04:06:29 <atari2600a> say w/o an actual *phone*, do you guys think Android would work well as a PDA OS?
Nov 18 04:06:31 <Leeds> jbq: without wanting you to say anything you shouldn't... is it fair to say we should expect a number of other out-the-box Android devices to be on the market next year?
Nov 18 04:06:37 <atari2600a> I've never really ran the emulator, too busy
Nov 18 04:07:14 <jbq> Leeds: Android would have kinda failed if nobody managed to do a device within 12 months of the source being released.
Nov 18 04:07:37 <Leeds> atari2600a: if your PDA has some net access... wifi being the obvious one... it would seem to make sense
Nov 18 04:07:46 <atari2600a> yeah
Nov 18 04:07:49 <atari2600a> then just run Skype :P
Nov 18 04:07:59 <atari2600a> ooh is Skype on android yet
Nov 18 04:08:10 <Leeds> without net access... to be honest, most computing devices seem pretty pointless without net access nowadays
Nov 18 04:08:46 <Leeds> there is no skype, and I doubt there will be any time soon... best bet would either be a callback-to-Skype thing, or a gateway... I'd quite like to see fring on my g1
Nov 18 04:09:47 <languish> atari2600a, technically there's a skype-compatible app on android already. It logs in to skype, uses your skype contacts..etc, BUT.. it also uses your cellular minutes when you make calls :|
Nov 18 04:10:07 <atari2600a> aww, that's no fun
Nov 18 04:10:12 <languish> exactly
Nov 18 04:10:14 <atari2600a> I'd like to see a skype phone running Adroid
Nov 18 04:10:37 <jbq> I'd love to see the framework evolve in a direction where it can support multiple VOIP apps.
Nov 18 04:10:38 <Leeds> skype is nasty and proprietary
Nov 18 04:10:41 <atari2600a> I mean, with SkypeOut / SkypeIn rates as low as they are, it makes perfect sense!
Nov 18 04:10:48 <Leeds> I'd like to see a nice simple SIP app
Nov 18 04:11:05 <atari2600a> how about Ventrilo, any ventrilo apps?
Nov 18 04:11:07 <languish> My wife uses skype to call Japan nightly.
Nov 18 04:11:13 <languish> on her PSP
Nov 18 04:11:37 <Leeds> languish: to call Japan, or to call another Skype user on the internet somewhere?
Nov 18 04:11:53 <languish> Leeds, to call japanese landlines (my inlaws)
Nov 18 04:12:10 <Leeds> get your inlaws online...
Nov 18 04:13:10 <atari2600a> I have video conferences with this dude I know in Lebanon on skype, I was suprised how low the latency was
Nov 18 04:13:14 <languish> Leeds, some are. the older gen isn't ... 70+yrs
Nov 18 04:14:50 <atari2600a> hey I'm looking for the android emulator, can't exactly find it
Nov 18 04:15:05 <Leeds> atari2600a: grab the sdk, it's at tools/emulator
Nov 18 04:15:13 <atari2600a> ah
Nov 18 04:15:33 <atari2600a> now to learn Java :P
Nov 18 04:17:53 <atari2600a> so
Nov 18 04:18:04 <atari2600a> I know very little about Adroid
Nov 18 04:18:13 <Leeds> so we see :-P
Nov 18 04:18:31 <atari2600a> why Java acceleration, instead of simply C/C++?
Nov 18 04:19:35 <Leeds> three main reasons come to mind: it's a managed platform, which suits a limited-resource device, it's a vm so it abstracts away the particular device, and there are lots and lots and lots of java developers in the world, many of whom are used to doing mobile development
Nov 18 04:19:42 <Leeds> but they are all guesses :-)
Nov 18 04:19:55 <wastrel> nice nickname
Nov 18 04:20:21 <atari2600a> mine?
Nov 18 04:20:33 <atari2600a> or g94b's?
Nov 18 04:20:51 <Leeds> mine, I assume ;-)
Nov 18 04:22:44 <bert-0h> whats new? anybody awake in here?
Nov 18 04:23:01 <atari2600a> until last wednesday I always thought Java was a solely interpreted language, until my professor told me otherwise :P
Nov 18 04:23:13 <Leeds> man gcj
Nov 18 04:23:15 <atari2600a> I just assumed cross-platform == interpreted :P
Nov 18 04:23:38 <Leeds> C is one of the most cross-platform languages ever
Nov 18 04:24:02 <atari2600a> definitely not the executable :p
Nov 18 04:24:32 <spikebike> heh
Nov 18 04:24:53 <spikebike> cross compilation is relatively rare
Nov 18 04:24:59 <spikebike> (compared to non)
Nov 18 04:25:15 <spikebike> but yeah C's pretty portable
Nov 18 04:26:32 <spikebike> C compatibility on linux is pretty good
Nov 18 04:26:44 <bert-0h> what is c useful for? what are its weeknesses?
Nov 18 04:27:03 <bert-0h> obviously spelling is one of mine
Nov 18 04:27:09 <spikebike> and runs on an amazing number of platforms, 32 bit, 64 bit, mips, parisc, sparc, arm, powerpc, ia64, x86-32, x86-64, etc.
Nov 18 04:27:21 <atari2600a> c is useful for everything ever?
Nov 18 04:27:32 <atari2600a> if anything the syntax will throw people off if they're not used to it
Nov 18 04:27:41 <Leeds> it's useful for pretty much anything
Nov 18 04:27:42 <spikebike> it's not particularly easy to write secure code in
Nov 18 04:27:57 <spikebike> nor is it particularly efficient use of programmer time
Nov 18 04:28:00 <atari2600a> someone did a 'eh' 6502 C compiler :P
Nov 18 04:29:02 <atari2600a> but if you want your app to be FAST, C is the way to go, excluding ASM :P
Nov 18 04:29:19 <bert-0h> what are some examples of commonly used applications written in c?
Nov 18 04:29:32 <atari2600a> the linux kernel?
Nov 18 04:29:44 <spikebike> linux and 90+% of the applications
Nov 18 04:29:49 <Leeds> pretty much every kernel, I think
Nov 18 04:29:51 <atari2600a> most Xbox games if you count objective-C?
Nov 18 04:29:57 <spikebike> firefox, thunderbird
Nov 18 04:30:00 <spikebike> what?
Nov 18 04:30:09 <spikebike> xbox games in obj c?
Nov 18 04:30:14 <atari2600a> I believe so
Nov 18 04:30:24 <spikebike> I believe not, did you mean .net?
Nov 18 04:30:29 <spikebike> c sharp?
Nov 18 04:30:51 <atari2600a> been a long time since I looked into it, & it seems pointless to write an xbox game in .net
Nov 18 04:30:59 <spikebike> why?
Nov 18 04:31:15 <spikebike> 99% of obj c is for osx
Nov 18 04:31:32 <atari2600a> seems like it'd slow things down on a platform designed for gaming
Nov 18 04:31:34 <spikebike> in case you hadn't noticed, apple and microsoft aren't best buddies
Nov 18 04:31:55 <spikebike> well the bottlenck is mostly programmer time not performance
Nov 18 04:32:20 <bert-0h> how many different ways can you write C and whats the difference?
Nov 18 04:32:51 <spikebike> c sharp, obj c, c++ and c mostly
Nov 18 04:33:41 <bert-0h> and you know how to write all of them?
Nov 18 04:33:47 <Leeds> would you include D?
Nov 18 04:34:15 <atari2600a> wait
Nov 18 04:34:24 <Leeds> no, go!
Nov 18 04:34:25 <atari2600a> I might have been thinking about C# for the xbox
Nov 18 04:34:35 <Leeds> oh, really?
Nov 18 04:34:39 <atari2600a> yeah
Nov 18 04:34:45 <atari2600a> XNA games are C#
Nov 18 04:35:05 <spikebike> ya C# is a microsoft specific language, so not too surprising
Nov 18 04:35:17 <Leeds> it's a microsoft knock-off of Java, AIUI
Nov 18 04:35:49 <bert-0h> is android a google knockoff of java?
Nov 18 04:36:11 <atari2600a> android is an operating system
Nov 18 04:36:27 <atari2600a> that's like saying 'is my toothbrush toilet paper?'
Nov 18 04:36:41 <bert-0h> what language do you use then
Nov 18 04:36:53 <atari2600a> android developers?
Nov 18 04:36:55 <Leeds> dalvik is a Google adaption of the java platform for use in mobile devices
Nov 18 04:36:56 <atari2600a> 99% Java
Nov 18 04:37:23 <bert-0h> so dalvik is a google knockoff of java?
Nov 18 04:37:27 <Leeds> no
Nov 18 04:37:35 <wastrel> dalvik is an implementation of a java virtual machine
Nov 18 04:38:06 <wastrel> there are many different JVM implementations, they're all java
Nov 18 04:38:12 <atari2600a> bert-0h: how's the weather in NJ?
Nov 18 04:38:23 <Leeds> wastrel: not if they haven't passed the tests they aren't
Nov 18 04:38:30 <spikebike> wasterl er not really
Nov 18 04:38:34 <andyross> Strictly, no.  Dalvik is its own virtual machine, but is designed to be similar enough to java that java bytecode can be directly converted into it.
Nov 18 04:38:43 <Leeds> java vs. Java[TM]
Nov 18 04:38:48 <spikebike> right
Nov 18 04:39:06 <Leeds> somewhat similar to unix vs. UNIX[TM]
Nov 18 04:39:13 <spikebike> but java will run on any hardware
Nov 18 04:39:36 <spikebike> so that's not a particularly restrictive limitation
Nov 18 04:39:43 <bert-0h> so i am not wasting my time reading this java book to learn programming for android then
Nov 18 04:39:51 <spikebike> not at all
Nov 18 04:39:59 <bert-0h> phwew
Nov 18 04:40:26 <wastrel> what book?
Nov 18 04:40:31 <bert-0h> its crappy weather in jersey, why
Nov 18 04:40:46 <atari2600a> but if you can't tell the difference between a programming language & an operating system, you might want to take a few steps back, maybe take an introductory computer science course at your local communty college
Nov 18 04:41:09 <andyross> Or you might be sitting at a Symbolics machine. :)
Nov 18 04:41:56 <wastrel> or using emacs?
Nov 18 04:42:00 <wastrel> i'm no good at this game
Nov 18 04:42:03 <bert-0h> the book is Java an introduction to Problem Solving and Programming
Nov 18 04:42:07 <Leeds> C and unix were pretty tightly coupled in the early days
Nov 18 04:42:37 <bert-0h> by Walter Savitch and Frank M. Carrano
Nov 18 04:42:40 <spikebike> still are
Nov 18 04:43:04 <Leeds> bert-0h: java is three things: a language, a standard library set, and a virtual machine/platform... dalvik uses the same language, a similar standard library, and a different virtual machine - but you don't really need to care about the VM
Nov 18 04:43:12 <bert-0h> thanks for helping me through this guys
Nov 18 04:43:47 <spikebike> er sort of
Nov 18 04:43:56 <spikebike> dalvik is a superset of the java virtual machin
Nov 18 04:43:58 <spikebike> e
Nov 18 04:44:08 <Leeds> a true superset?
Nov 18 04:44:09 <spikebike> there is a java -> dec translater
Nov 18 04:44:13 <spikebike> er dex
Nov 18 04:44:21 <wastrel> i have a question
Nov 18 04:44:33 <wastrel> is there a way to turn off the notification when i plug in to USB?
Nov 18 04:44:59 <spikebike> but for instance perl 6 or python could be ported to dalvik and do things not possible under java
Nov 18 04:45:13 <wastrel> hrm
Nov 18 04:45:43 <Leeds> spikebike: except that - as has been discussed - dalvik is unlikely to deal well with dynamic code
Nov 18 04:45:45 <atari2600a> hey I'm running the emulator right now, but It's at ANDROID_
Nov 18 04:45:52 <atari2600a> is there something I'm missing here?
Nov 18 04:46:00 <bert-0h> could you port c as well?
Nov 18 04:46:07 <Leeds> atari2600a: it's a bit slow to boot - leave it and it should start up
Nov 18 04:46:31 <atari2600a> there it goes
Nov 18 04:46:37 <wastrel> anyone in nyc having crapulous 3g tonight?
Nov 18 04:46:40 <atari2600a> I hope it's this slow due to the emulation :P
Nov 18 04:46:40 <Leeds> spikebike: jython or jruby could be used to run things under dalvik, in theory...
Nov 18 04:46:45 <spikebike> leeds true, at least for now
Nov 18 04:46:56 <spikebike> leeds except for the no dynamic thing
Nov 18 04:47:41 <bert-0h> what does xml stand for?
Nov 18 04:47:45 <Leeds> I did briefly get excited about the possibility of pypy->java, but it's not that interesting, I think
Nov 18 04:47:52 <Leeds> extensible markup language
Nov 18 04:47:58 <irig> extended markup langauge
Nov 18 04:48:07 <Leeds> ex-something
Nov 18 04:48:16 <irig> hi all i am facing some problem
Nov 18 04:48:25 <irig> when i am trying to make it says
Nov 18 04:48:26 <irig> ld/core/java.mk:9: *** development/samples/HelloActivity/tests: Target java module does not define any source or resource files.  Stop
Nov 18 04:48:33 <andyross> Meh.  It's HTML with an "X" in front because X is cool, of course.  XML was mostly a mistake.
Nov 18 04:48:48 <irig> whnt may be the issue ?
Nov 18 04:48:51 <wastrel> xml is used in android
Nov 18 04:49:13 <bert-0h> so whats the diff html vs. xml
Nov 18 04:49:21 <Leeds> bert-0h: everything
Nov 18 04:49:28 <atari2600a> this reminds me of GNOME a little
Nov 18 04:49:47 <andyross> HTML is a markup language for text.  XML is a metadata format that happens to look like it (because HTML was cool at the time, so XML must be even better!)
Nov 18 04:49:52 <Leeds> xhtml is a variant of HTML which is also XML... they both descend from SGML
Nov 18 04:50:08 <d03boy> im watching matlock
Nov 18 04:50:13 <Leeds> I have soup
Nov 18 04:50:13 <d03boy> and they're calling it "codes"
Nov 18 04:50:15 <d03boy> computer codes
Nov 18 04:50:26 <Leeds> lumpy soup
Nov 18 04:50:32 <bert-0h> i need to learn xml also then...i suppose if it is at all like html there is a good online resource for doing so?
Nov 18 04:50:49 <irig> hi all i am facing some problem  when i am trying to do  make it says  ld/core/java.mk:9: *** development/samples/HelloActivity/tests: Target java module does not define any source or resource files.  Stop
Nov 18 04:50:59 <Leeds> irig: eclipse problem?
Nov 18 04:51:09 <Leeds> bert-0h: you don't really need to learn that much xml
Nov 18 04:53:17 <jmob> andyross: xml is a document mark-up language, it gets abused as a data exchange format only because There Isn't Anything Better (TM)
Nov 18 04:53:18 <skbohra> what is the best way to quit from android sdk
Nov 18 04:53:33 <skbohra> my fc9 box hangs after quiting
Nov 18 04:53:47 <skbohra> i have to restart
Nov 18 04:53:50 <irig> what is eclipse problem ?
Nov 18 04:53:58 <skbohra> :)
Nov 18 04:54:07 <irig> do i need to install something else ?
Nov 18 04:54:07 <skbohra> Leeds : you tell him
Nov 18 04:54:25 <Leeds> I don't use eclipse
Nov 18 04:54:56 <skbohra> Leeds: Ctrl+C is the way to quit?
Nov 18 04:54:59 <andyross> jmob: xhtml is a document markup language.  XML on the whole is used pervasively for strict data formats (c.f. AndroidManifest.xml) where other things like JSON (that, yes, are better) would be more appropriate.
Nov 18 04:55:06 <wastrel> is there a feature request in for being able to turn off that notification when plugging in to USB?
Nov 18 04:55:31 <andyross> Why would you want to?  I mean, it's not like it's interrupting you -- you just plugged the phone in, by definition you're not using it.
Nov 18 04:55:34 <Leeds> xml is a meta-markup-language
Nov 18 04:55:41 <Leeds> skbohra: quit what?
Nov 18 04:55:55 <skbohra> Leeds: android emulator
Nov 18 04:56:01 <Leeds> just close the window?
Nov 18 04:56:17 <skbohra> it makes my system un-responsive
Nov 18 04:56:26 <wastrel> json yaml xml yay
Nov 18 04:56:43 <skbohra> Leeds: the only way i could rescue is reboot
Nov 18 04:56:44 <skbohra> :(
Nov 18 04:56:54 <wastrel> andyross: it's loud and annoying
Nov 18 04:56:59 <Leeds> what system?
Nov 18 04:57:02 <wastrel> andyross: it wakes up my wife
Nov 18 04:57:04 <wastrel> and baby
Nov 18 04:57:09 <andyross> Mute the notification sound?
Nov 18 04:57:19 <jmob> andyross: you need to define your metrics, why would json be better
Nov 18 04:57:21 <Leeds> put your thumb over the speaker as you plug it in?
Nov 18 04:57:22 <wastrel> so then i don't get other notifictaions
Nov 18 04:57:26 <Leeds> skbohra: what OS?
Nov 18 04:57:36 <irig> hi all i am facing some problem  when i am trying to do  make android source code it says  ld/core/java.mk:9: *** development/samples/HelloActivity/tests: Target java module does not define any source or resource files.  Stop
Nov 18 04:57:40 <skbohra> Leeds:FC9
Nov 18 04:57:53 <Leeds> you're not running it as root, are you?
Nov 18 04:58:03 <skbohra> Leeds: no
Nov 18 04:58:03 <Leeds> mmm... good soup :-)
Nov 18 04:58:07 <jmob> just because stupid humans want it tp be "readable"?
Nov 18 04:58:12 <andyross> JSON is more readable, more writable, terser, cleaner, has a much shorter specification, requires less string escaping, and is a better fit for object data models where fields are not order-sensitive.  Those metrics specific enough for you?
Nov 18 04:58:22 <Leeds> then there's no way it should be able to make your system unresponsive... what happens if you kill the process?
Nov 18 04:58:45 <skbohra> Leeds: it is making
Nov 18 04:59:01 <Leeds> making?
Nov 18 04:59:20 <andyross> Oh, and JSON can represent "list of" natively, unlike XML.
Nov 18 04:59:28 <irig> hi all i am facing some problem  when i am trying to do  make android source code it says  ld/core/java.mk:9: *** development/samples/HelloActivity/tests: Target java module does not define any source or resource files.  Stop
Nov 18 04:59:42 <irig> wht may be the issue ?
Nov 18 04:59:47 <irig> please help me out
Nov 18 04:59:58 <Leeds> I should try living on this soup for a while... probably a good way to lose weight
Nov 18 05:00:04 <skbohra> Leeds: it is making system un-responsive, each time i kill the process, by clicking on the close button or using ctrl+z
Nov 18 05:00:04 <jmob> irig: dude, stop reasking the question
Nov 18 05:00:19 <Leeds> skbohra: if you use kill or kill -9 doesn't it go away?
Nov 18 05:00:38 <Leeds> irig: if anyone knew, they would have helped you by now
Nov 18 05:01:23 <irig> have any one of you built android on ubantu ?
Nov 18 05:01:24 <bert-0h> irig, can you make other source code just fine?
Nov 18 05:01:44 <wastrel> thumb over thingy muffles but doesn't completely mute it
Nov 18 05:01:55 <andyross> "built android" meaning the open source release of the platform?  Partially.
Nov 18 05:01:55 <wastrel> it's still loud and annoying and unnecessary
Nov 18 05:02:03 <wastrel> and there should be a preference to disable it <3
Nov 18 05:02:26 <bert-0h> thumb over speaker, arse over hand
Nov 18 05:02:35 <irig> yes opensource release avaialble here http://source.android.com/download
Nov 18 05:02:48 <irig> have any one of you built it on ubantu ?
Nov 18 05:03:10 <bert-0h> is ubantu the same as ubuntu?
Nov 18 05:03:24 <jmob> andyross: there's no schemas for json, how am i supposed to know what i'm allowed to put in a data structure?
Nov 18 05:04:29 <andyross> jmob: You could ask the same question of python or ruby data structures, and yet people use those tools all the time. You could *also* say the same for probably 90% of production XML formats in the world.  Schemas are cute.  They're hardly dealbreakers.
Nov 18 05:05:03 <irig> bert-0h,ya same
Nov 18 05:05:13 <jmob> andyross: i can write tools that write the xml correctly for me, without possibility of human error
Nov 18 05:05:47 <bert-0h> i have, although very simple apps
Nov 18 05:06:01 <andyross> Sure, but s/xml/json/g and that statement is still true.  A JSON verifier is a trivial task in any scripting language.  Javascript can even do it natively.
Nov 18 05:06:08 <jmob> andyross: how do i compose two different data structures without namespaces in json?
Nov 18 05:06:29 <bert-0h> according to a google search many people have
Nov 18 05:07:17 <andyross> Hammer/nail argument.  "Composition" is something very specific to xhtml and related formats like svg.  It's something you do in markup.  It's *not* something you do in data formats for some very good reasons (hint: encapsulation).
Nov 18 05:07:26 <Leeds> jmob: there are cases where all these super xml features matter - but in most cases they don't, and something like json is probably better
Nov 18 05:07:49 <andyross> And yes: xml makes a fine markup language.  But it's an innapropriate and clumsy choice for data formats, which is my core point.
Nov 18 05:07:54 <skbohra1> Leeds: It happend again
Nov 18 05:08:29 <andyross> c.f. AndroidManifest.xml again, by the way, which is specified in a mixed namespace and has terrible readability problems as a result.
Nov 18 05:08:54 <jmob> andyross: rss feeds do it -all- the time, composing data
Nov 18 05:08:55 <Leeds> skbohra: oh no! what did?
Nov 18 05:09:30 <skbohra1> Leeds: killing android sdk made my fc9 box un  responsive
Nov 18 05:09:32 <skbohra1> :(
Nov 18 05:09:33 <jmob> i imagine androidm...xml it really a data structure in disguise too, not appropriate for markup
Nov 18 05:09:41 <Leeds> how did you kill it?
Nov 18 05:09:57 <skbohra1> Leeds: pressed X
Nov 18 05:10:09 <Leeds> didn't I suggest using kill instead?
Nov 18 05:10:39 <skbohra1> Leeds: kill in adb shell?
Nov 18 05:10:50 <Leeds> no, kill in Linux shell
Nov 18 05:10:53 <jmob> andyross: sorry, i'm mostly playing devils advocate, i hate xml too
Nov 18 05:11:30 <jmob> andyross: never had my eyes bleed more than when i had to write a bunch of xslt junk
Nov 18 05:11:31 <RyeBrye> Oh? Is it XML bashing time?
Nov 18 05:12:03 <jmob> emephasis on the /had to/ bit
Nov 18 05:12:09 <RyeBrye> I was in a job interview once for a company that used some crazy XML file to transfer data between different systems... The guy doing the interview was extremely proud that they used XSLT for what it was "originally intended for"
Nov 18 05:12:36 <RyeBrye> I replied: "transforming an XML document into something else?"
Nov 18 05:12:49 <bert-0h> what parts of xml do i need to learn for android developing?
Nov 18 05:12:53 <RyeBrye> and he said "No." (pause - he cocks his head back) "LOGIC"
Nov 18 05:13:09 <RyeBrye> That was kind of a red flag
Nov 18 05:13:12 <Leeds> bert-0h: very little
Nov 18 05:13:17 <wastrel> bert-0h: just get a general idea of how to read an xml document...   which you mostly know from html
Nov 18 05:13:20 <Leeds> bert-0h: you know how HTML tags work?
Nov 18 05:13:33 <jmob> RyeBrye: uh, i dont get it, i thought xslt was for transforming xml docs too
Nov 18 05:13:34 <bert-0h> yes
Nov 18 05:13:38 <wastrel> bert-0h: then learn the android-specific stuff
Nov 18 05:13:47 <skbohra1> Leeds: I need to be su to start android emulator
Nov 18 05:14:00 <Leeds> skbohra1: I *asked* you if you were running it as root, and you said no
Nov 18 05:14:36 <jmob> andyross: hope i didnt scare you off
Nov 18 05:14:43 <skbohra1> Leeds: i did a su :-[
Nov 18 05:14:45 <MattSchultz> I have an API question - given the URI to an image on the phone (obtained by using the photogallery), I'm trying to get the bytestream of that image so I can use it. According to the API, the best way to do that seems to be to get a ContentResolver, then call getInputStream, passing my URI. Which all seem to work, except I can't seem to get my hands on a ContentResolver object. Both the Google Code website and the Android API docs bui
Nov 18 05:14:45 <MattSchultz> say it has a constructor which takes a single arguement - a context. But when I try to actually make a new one, using "ContentResolver resolver = new ContentResolver(applicationContext);", I see an error which tells me "Cannot instantiate the type ContentResolver". What's going on here?
Nov 18 05:14:51 <bert-0h> wastrel: i meant what parts of xml are android-specific
Nov 18 05:15:04 <skbohra1> Leeds: without su
Nov 18 05:15:15 <skbohra1> Leeds: I can't start android
Nov 18 05:15:22 <Leeds> skbohra1: then work out why not
Nov 18 05:15:37 <wastrel> bert-0h: android uses xml files in some configuration for application development.
Nov 18 05:15:39 <skbohra1> Leeds: ya
Nov 18 05:15:45 <skbohra1> Leeds: lemme
Nov 18 05:15:53 <wastrel> bert-0h: learn how to use those files, not "xml"
Nov 18 05:15:54 <Leeds> did you, maybe unpack the sdk package as root?
Nov 18 05:16:09 <wastrel> bert-0h: AndroidManifest.xml, for example
Nov 18 05:16:20 <skbohra1> Leeds: yes I did
Nov 18 05:16:39 <Leeds> try again as a regular user - no need to do it as root
Nov 18 05:16:46 <bert-0h> ok, thank you wastrel
Nov 18 05:16:56 <RyeBrye> jmob - that's the point... XSLT is NOT made for logic, and that guy (their VP of engineering) obviously had his head up his rear
Nov 18 05:17:00 <bert-0h> i will look into that
Nov 18 05:17:38 <llight> any1 knows how to use ashmem ?
Nov 18 05:24:56 <RyeBrye> Is the Flash player that was demoed on a G1 today at MAX - was that a normal flash player or flash lite?
Nov 18 05:25:38 <bert-0h> wha? do you have a link to more info on that?
Nov 18 05:25:44 <g1er> looks like flash lite
Nov 18 05:25:46 <g1er> http://www.intomobile.com/2008/11/17/adobe-brings-flash-to-t-mobile-g1-android-and-adobe-flash-together-at-last.html
Nov 18 05:26:50 <wastrel> any news about ebook readers or offline html?
Nov 18 05:27:02 <wastrel> desperate for offline content :]
Nov 18 05:27:16 <RyeBrye> flash lite? :(
Nov 18 05:27:54 <ionstorm> anyone figure out how to unlock this thing yet
Nov 18 05:27:57 <RyeBrye> That makes me wonder - is the thing Adobe has waiting in wings for the iPhone a flash lite? I thought part of the objection Steve Jobs had was that Flash Lite sucked and Flash was too big
Nov 18 05:28:07 <RyeBrye> ionstorm - call T-mobile and get an unlock code?
Nov 18 05:28:19 <RyeBrye> ionstorm- did you see the stuff about multi-touch?
Nov 18 05:28:24 <ionstorm> ah, im more of a do-it-yourselfer
Nov 18 05:28:32 <ionstorm> what stuff?
Nov 18 05:28:40 <ionstorm> oh the source
Nov 18 05:28:43 <ionstorm> commented?
Nov 18 05:28:45 <ionstorm> yea
Nov 18 05:29:05 <mileena449> hello room
Nov 18 05:29:06 <ionstorm> i seen u talk about it when I was too drunk to type the other nite
Nov 18 05:29:06 <ionstorm> lol
Nov 18 05:29:07 <RyeBrye> ionstorm - no... what happens when the code is uncommented
Nov 18 05:29:09 <RyeBrye> inostorm - http://www.ryebrye.com/blog/2008/11/17/proving-the-g1-screen-can-handle-multi-touch/
Nov 18 05:29:12 <RyeBrye> Ok :)
Nov 18 05:29:15 <ionstorm> ah
Nov 18 05:29:49 <ionstorm> nice blog, where  do u host it
Nov 18 05:29:56 <mileena449> hello i got a question about prices on g1 android how come some of them are 180 then 300 then goes to 400, whats the real price of the phone?
Nov 18 05:30:15 <RyeBrye> right now it's on a vps at eapps.com, but I might move it soon to another server I have (I've just been lazy)
Nov 18 05:30:29 <ionstorm> thanks for the props
Nov 18 05:30:32 * ionstorm reads
Nov 18 05:31:08 <mileena449> :/
Nov 18 05:31:27 <ionstorm> neat find RyeBrye
Nov 18 05:31:29 <RyeBrye> mileena449 - depends upon how soon you are up for an upgrade
Nov 18 05:31:30 <ionstorm> ;)
Nov 18 05:31:39 <mileena449> anyone knows the real price of the4 g1 android?
Nov 18 05:31:51 <ionstorm> 400 w/o contract
Nov 18 05:32:07 <RyeBrye> ionstorm - the real bitch is that whole "G1 is spec'ed as a single-touch screen" :/
Nov 18 05:33:14 <ionstorm> yea, maybe google has an agreement with synaptics just for single touch
Nov 18 05:33:21 <ionstorm> and they may have to pay extra for double
Nov 18 05:33:22 <ionstorm> lame
Nov 18 05:33:43 <ionstorm> we could just finish the src code ourselves
Nov 18 05:34:21 <mileena449> ionstorm o got a quick question, my brother and i purchased 2 nokia expressmusic for 300 dollars mine is defected then i exchange it for a g1 android then they asked me to pay another 150 dollars even we had the two year contract, so it seems i purchased it for 300 dollars
Nov 18 05:34:46 <mileena449> i was thinking i supposed to 179 it says in the t mobile website
Nov 18 05:35:01 <spikebike> right, but you already used up your sponsored phone
Nov 18 05:35:03 <RyeBrye> It's HTC - but I think it's most likely that the screen they have right now might be capable because perhaps synaptics only has multi-touch capable screens or something.. and in the future it might be that they can source one that isn't capable...
Nov 18 05:35:20 <ionstorm> u will get the 150 returned back most likely, they just bill u the difference for the phone
Nov 18 05:35:26 <ionstorm> call up tmo
Nov 18 05:35:39 <mileena449> ok i im just double checking, they didnt phuked me over?
Nov 18 05:36:08 <ionstorm> dunno, when I exchanged mine they billed me 179 until I returned it
Nov 18 05:36:45 <ionstorm> RyeBrye, this really dont make sense lol
Nov 18 05:36:52 <mileena449> i returned the phone becuase its defective i followed the 14 day policy
Nov 18 05:36:58 <mileena449> its not an upgrade
Nov 18 05:37:16 <mileena449> theyre the one who told me to get g1 i said ok
Nov 18 05:37:27 <g1er> mileena449: did you do all this through a store?
Nov 18 05:37:30 <ionstorm> mileena449, call  1-800-672-5390
Nov 18 05:37:42 <mileena449> yes inside the store
Nov 18 05:37:51 <ionstorm> oh hmm
Nov 18 05:37:55 <ionstorm> call the store
Nov 18 05:38:03 <ionstorm> ask for clarification
Nov 18 05:38:03 <mileena449> i just want to know if they as  me over on it or not
Nov 18 05:38:09 <mileena449> ok
Nov 18 05:38:50 * wastrel pines for offline content
Nov 18 05:39:35 * spikebike pines for offline maps
Nov 18 05:39:43 <RyeBrye> Interesting - the Android browser identifies itself as safari
Nov 18 05:39:47 <spikebike> I was thinking of offering maemo mapper's author $200 for a port
Nov 18 05:39:54 <ionstorm> rofl
Nov 18 05:39:58 <RyeBrye> It probably does this for compatibility reasons
Nov 18 05:40:04 <ionstorm> yea
Nov 18 05:40:09 <ionstorm> spoof
Nov 18 05:40:30 <wastrel> maps are content
Nov 18 05:40:40 <ionstorm> i wonder if gnash would work w/android's browser
Nov 18 05:40:45 <wastrel> i need to make a subway map speaking of offline maps
Nov 18 05:41:03 <spikebike> I find it very strange that when you really need a map in the middle of nowhere you can't get a map
Nov 18 05:41:09 <wastrel> v. true
Nov 18 05:41:24 <wastrel> also strange when you're on the subway and have some downtime to read, you can't get any web pages
Nov 18 05:41:28 <spikebike> thus my love for maemo mapper
Nov 18 05:41:39 <bert0> when you declare an applications content provider does that mean T-Mobile?
Nov 18 05:41:48 <spikebike> well that's easy to fix, audio books, music, games, etc.
Nov 18 05:42:00 <wastrel> i don't use audio much
Nov 18 05:42:14 <wastrel> headphones are a pain in the ass.  and you can't pipe audio over bluetooth
Nov 18 05:42:16 <wastrel> and games are boring
Nov 18 05:42:40 <spikebike> I've enjoyed some audiobooks
Nov 18 05:42:48 <wastrel> i prefer reading :]
Nov 18 05:43:01 <spikebike> yeah, but you can listen in many conditions where you can't read
Nov 18 05:43:07 <spikebike> like a crowded train
Nov 18 05:43:07 <wastrel> and i much prefer not having to fool around with headphones
Nov 18 05:43:11 <spikebike> or driving
Nov 18 05:43:19 <wastrel> easy to read on a train if you have ebook on pda
Nov 18 05:43:25 <wastrel> that's why i like it
Nov 18 05:43:27 <spikebike> even in bed if the lights are out ;-)
Nov 18 05:43:36 <wastrel> again, pda = lighted screen
Nov 18 05:43:42 <wastrel> tho i do wish i could dim the backlight more
Nov 18 05:43:51 <spikebike> actually I think you can
Nov 18 05:43:57 <wastrel> i haaaate fooling with headhpones, try that in a crowded train
Nov 18 05:44:12 <spikebike> I usually put the earphones on before you get on the train
Nov 18 05:44:22 <spikebike> s/you/i/
Nov 18 05:44:23 <infobot> spikebike meant: I usually put the earphones on before i get on the train
Nov 18 05:44:30 <wastrel> how do you dim more?
Nov 18 05:44:31 <spikebike> heh
Nov 18 05:44:38 <wastrel> i've got it on the lowest setting
Nov 18 05:44:48 <spikebike> ya umm I think that's 50 or so
Nov 18 05:44:53 <spikebike> it does down to 8
Nov 18 05:44:59 <spikebike> umm
Nov 18 05:45:04 <wastrel> i'd have to write an interface
Nov 18 05:45:05 <wastrel> yes
Nov 18 05:45:13 <spikebike> I think it's /sys/dev/light/backlight or something
Nov 18 05:45:15 <spikebike> just echo
Nov 18 05:45:23 <wastrel> i don't have root
Nov 18 05:45:32 * spikebike gasps
Nov 18 05:45:38 <spikebike> wtf not
Nov 18 05:45:41 <RyeBrye> cool. It goes down to 8?
Nov 18 05:45:54 <wastrel> i've been thinking of writing an app and throwing it up on the market
Nov 18 05:45:58 <spikebike> someone else claimed it went down to 8 before it went off
Nov 18 05:46:17 <wastrel> max is 250 iirc
Nov 18 05:46:55 <spikebike> I'll look for it, might not require root
Nov 18 05:47:03 <spikebike> after all the app to control it shouldn't run as root
Nov 18 05:47:26 <wastrel> anyway i've been using fbreader but it needs a lot of work
Nov 18 05:48:05 <wastrel> i need to start carrying my palm tx again for ebooks
Nov 18 05:51:31 <RyeBrye> I wish mobipocket reader would work in that midp thing
Nov 18 05:51:33 <RyeBrye> but it doesn't
Nov 18 05:53:16 <wastrel> i hate mobipocket :]
Nov 18 05:53:32 <wastrel> but it's a functional reader yeah if it worked
Nov 18 05:53:48 <wastrel> fbreader is pretty broken. i read a book but it wasn't easy
Nov 18 05:54:48 <wastrel> we're no longer dmorrilized
Nov 18 05:55:03 <morrildl> wastrel: it's a trap
Nov 18 05:55:11 <morrildl> My last name is actually Morrill
Nov 18 05:55:13 <DarkriftX> RyeBrye, 999 members on my forums :)
Nov 18 05:55:25 <RyeBrye> cool
Nov 18 05:55:33 <DarkriftX> waiting for number 1k lol
Nov 18 06:00:38 <wastrel> we're no longer dmorrillized
Nov 18 06:00:59 <DarkriftX> lol
Nov 18 06:05:13 <RyeBrye> So... When a touch event registers in the touchscreen driver - where does it go next? What path does it go down to eventually get into the java land
Nov 18 06:06:26 <ionstorm> lsof
Nov 18 06:06:30 <ionstorm> grab it
Nov 18 06:06:40 <ionstorm> +strace
Nov 18 06:07:00 <zhobbs> I want to keep a log of 50 or so Strings, so when I add a new string the oldest string goes away...what's the most efficient way to do this? Is doing a List<String>.remove(0), List.add(String) inefficient?
Nov 18 06:08:03 <RyeBrye> I'll have to put the debian chroot stuff in place to do that
Nov 18 06:09:30 <ionstorm> just compile them both for arm
Nov 18 06:11:12 <MattSchultz> Anyone know a good tutorial on doing HTTP requests?
Nov 18 06:11:47 <muthu_> zhobbs: use a queue
Nov 18 06:12:29 <ionstorm> MattSchultz, use netcat for basic stuff
Nov 18 06:13:17 <ionstorm> o for android, search google
Nov 18 06:13:21 <ionstorm> plenty of examples
Nov 18 06:18:42 <MattSchultz> I've got most of it down, but I'm not sure exactly how to set the body of HttpPost...
Nov 18 06:19:29 <zhobbs> OutputStreamWriter wr = new OutputStreamWriter(conn.getOutputStream());
Nov 18 06:19:29 <zhobbs> 			        wr.write(data);
Nov 18 06:19:29 <zhobbs> 			        wr.flush();
Nov 18 06:19:55 <zhobbs> String data = URLEncoder.encode("arg", "UTF-8") + "=" + URLEncoder.encode(value, "UTF-8");
Nov 18 06:20:17 <ionstorm> MattSchultz, http://groups.google.com/group/android-beginners/search?group=android-beginners&q=http+post&qt_g=Search+this+group
Nov 18 06:25:11 <kRutOn> MattSchultz: Did you figure out the trying to instantiate an abstract class thing....
Nov 18 06:27:49 <kRutOn> ttp://tinyurl.com/httpclient-post
Nov 18 06:49:41 <tauno> "<romainguy_> tauno: what were the complaints you wanted to voice ealier?" <- nevermind, it won't change anything anyway I guess
Nov 18 06:50:16 <romainguy__> you won't know if you don't say :)
Nov 18 06:51:51 * unix_infidel hopes the G1 goes on sale black friday.
Nov 18 06:53:09 <DarkriftX> me too lol
Nov 18 06:53:16 <DarkriftX> although not sure ill have enough for it anyways
Nov 18 06:53:25 <DarkriftX> if you find it anywhere, please let me know lol
Nov 18 06:54:00 <unix_infidel> it'll be interesting to see if IMF and flash drop at the same time.
Nov 18 06:54:08 <unix_infidel> early christmas present.
Nov 18 06:55:20 <tauno> ok, here we go -> StaticLayout -> is ther any way to reuse this object? I haven't found a setText() or something like that.. and its a really heavy object also.. try creating a few of these for some big texts.. the GC starts to spin around like crazy
Nov 18 06:55:37 <romainguy__> you can't reuse it
Nov 18 06:56:07 <Fnord^-> romainguy__, there should be a way to use multiple google accounts, or at least switch :P
Nov 18 06:56:15 <romainguy__> Fnord^-: we never though about that :)
Nov 18 06:56:32 <Fnord^-> romainguy__, really? o.o
Nov 18 06:57:46 <romainguy__> Fnord^-: take a guess :))
Nov 18 06:57:51 <romainguy__> more seriously, we know
Nov 18 06:57:53 <RyeBrye> unix_infidel I haven't seen any BF ads listing the G1
Nov 18 06:57:58 <Fnord^-> I somehow doubt it was overlooked :P
Nov 18 06:57:59 <romainguy__> most googlers have at least 2 Google/gmail accounts
Nov 18 06:58:01 <RyeBrye> It's flash lite, right?
Nov 18 06:58:11 <Fnord^-> Just wondering if it's technical limitation or a policy limitation
Nov 18 06:58:17 <romainguy__> neither
Nov 18 06:58:23 <romainguy__> we didn't have time to do it properly
Nov 18 06:58:24 <Fnord^-> Oh
Nov 18 06:58:26 <Fnord^-> Ahhh
Nov 18 06:58:32 <romainguy__> you can ask cbeust when he's around
Nov 18 06:58:35 <romainguy__> it's not trivial
Nov 18 06:59:03 <Fnord^-> I've built perl with dbi/sqlite but the script I could make wouldn't help users that are not naughty XD
Nov 18 06:59:11 <tauno> romainguy_, yeah, I figured that.. that leads me to implementing my own text wrapping/painting classes, which means I have to measure my text somehow.. now paint.measureText() pretends to return int's but is only capable of measuring till 32767 pixels (eg it uses shorts) so If I have a really long string I can't just measure it and divide it with the width of the screen to get a good guess at the total line count.. (sure, I can implement it ot
Nov 18 06:59:29 <languish> [01:58] <romainguy__> neither
Nov 18 06:59:29 <languish> [01:58] <romainguy__> we didn't have time to do it properly
Nov 18 06:59:38 <romainguy__> tauno: that's not quite the right way to do this
Nov 18 06:59:52 <romainguy__> tauno: even if it could measure to the max of an int, you could hit the limit
Nov 18 07:00:14 <languish> caving in to external forces of evil is giving in to evil, when unleashing the unfinished (ala microsoft) on the general consumer
Nov 18 07:00:20 <languish> :(
Nov 18 07:00:21 <tauno> romainguy__ that was just my initial attempt to do it and that's why i discovered the wrong return type.. I'm not saying it's a good way of doing it :/
Nov 18 07:00:27 * languish weeps for the souls of the many
Nov 18 07:00:32 <romainguy__> languish: it's not unfinished since you can use Gmail
Nov 18 07:00:45 <romainguy__> languish: and let's face it, users with multiple Gmail accounts are not the majority
Nov 18 07:00:47 <languish> talk to me about bluetooth progiles
Nov 18 07:00:54 <languish> *profiles
Nov 18 07:01:00 <romainguy__> languish: no
Nov 18 07:01:03 <Fnord^-> <romainguy__> most googlers have at least 2 Google/gmail accounts <---- :-O!!!
Nov 18 07:01:04 <languish> lol
Nov 18 07:01:04 <Leeds> is there any way to get a more exact timestamp in the call log than "1 hour ago"?
Nov 18 07:01:19 <Leeds> Fnord^-: think 'home' and 'work'
Nov 18 07:01:31 <Fnord^-> Leeds, yeah that's the problem I hit today.
Nov 18 07:01:37 <RyeBrye> Leeds - more like "Clark Kent" and "Superman"
Nov 18 07:01:50 <Fnord^-> romainguy__, oh and googledocs mobile should allow one to unsubscribe :P
Nov 18 07:02:00 <Fnord^-> romainguy__, btw, good job >.>
Nov 18 07:02:02 <romainguy__> that has nothing to do with Android
Nov 18 07:02:07 <Fnord^-> Yeah I know
Nov 18 07:02:08 <romainguy__> so go tell the Google Docs people :)
Nov 18 07:02:20 <romainguy__> (and don't you mean log out?)
Nov 18 07:02:22 <Leeds> romainguy_: they aren't conveniently on IRC :-)
Nov 18 07:02:47 <Fnord^-> Nah, unsubscribe from a feed. And I figure you could corner them at the watercooler or such
Nov 18 07:02:53 <Fnord^-> Assuming you have watercoolers.
Nov 18 07:02:59 <RyeBrye> or send an autopiloting helicopter after them?
Nov 18 07:03:04 <Fnord^-> Yeah
Nov 18 07:03:16 <Fnord^-> Or yell obnoxiously over the cubicle farm
Nov 18 07:03:31 <Fnord^-> "HAY GUYS, YOU FORGOT SOMETHING!"
Nov 18 07:03:34 <languish> I'd rather yell at whoever develops gmail/chat contacts to "hide" not "remove"
Nov 18 07:03:54 <Leeds> anyone, detailed timestamps in call log?
Nov 18 07:04:49 <Fnord^-> Eh
Nov 18 07:06:25 <tauno> romainguy_ it would be great if there was something lighter that you could use to draw text. I know there was no time and that I'm the only one who is in need of something like this.. it's just.. can we have it in vesion... 5 maybe? :)
Nov 18 07:06:58 <romainguy__> how is drawText() not light?
Nov 18 07:07:20 <tauno> sorry,, forgot to write draw/wrap text :)
Nov 18 07:07:41 <tauno> basically something like StaticLayout.. only lighter..
Nov 18 07:07:42 <Fnord^-> Whoops I meant reader, not docs
Nov 18 07:08:06 <Leeds> Fnord^-: you mean the mobile version?
Nov 18 07:08:16 <romainguy__> tauno: wrapping text, correctly, is not light :)
Nov 18 07:08:17 <Fnord^-> yup
Nov 18 07:08:26 <romainguy__> what is your problem with StaticLayout anyway?
Nov 18 07:08:27 <Fnord^-> Can't unsubscribe from feeds, or I'm missing something
Nov 18 07:08:38 <Leeds> just unsubscribe on a computer... do you really unsub so often?
Nov 18 07:08:59 <Fnord^-> I play with the phone alot o.o So yeh
Nov 18 07:08:59 <Leeds> incidentally, are you using the true mobile version or the 'iphone' one?
Nov 18 07:09:21 <Fnord^-> Whichever one the default homepage on a g1 links to
Nov 18 07:10:06 <Fnord^-> google.com/m?page=2#reader
Nov 18 07:10:56 <Fnord^-> which isn't the same as http://www.google.com/reader/m/view/ <--iphone one?
Nov 18 07:11:03 <Leeds> does it have iphone-like buttons and load items with AJAX, or does it do one item per page?
Nov 18 07:11:41 <Fnord^-> It seems to do ajax stuff. It's not barebones text. I've never seen an iphone button :P
Nov 18 07:12:15 <Fnord^-> 3d buttons with light grey -> dark grey gradient going from top to bottom?
Nov 18 07:13:05 <Leeds> yeah, that's the iphone - should probably say mobile webkit - one... it doesn't seem to work for me, read items don't stay read
Nov 18 07:13:27 <Fnord^-> works great here
Nov 18 07:15:26 <Leeds> I think it works if I manually "mark as read" but not if I just read it and scroll on to the next item
Nov 18 07:16:17 <tauno>  romainguy__ oh well.. I have to display a scrolling thingie that includes various other stuff and now and then also a few lines of text (that can range from one line to n+1 lines). Now I need to wrap every one of these long strings to display them correclty - I can't use StaticLayout for them however since it's not a reusable object, it's heavy and I need like 200 (or more or less. depending on stuff) of them in a single scrollable view (one 
Nov 18 07:16:54 <Fnord^-> hrm
Nov 18 07:20:32 <tauno> and just now I see that romain left.. great :D
Nov 18 07:22:29 <Fnord^-> =[ I don't think android's openssl has rsa support
Nov 18 07:26:04 <BHSPitMonkey> What's the bare minimum specs Android can be made to run on?
Nov 18 07:27:01 <spikebike> er, what's the right answer?
Nov 18 07:27:15 <spikebike> and how do you define run?
Nov 18 07:28:09 <BHSPitMonkey> I've just read varying reports about the requirements, i.e. 64MB ram vs 128MB
Nov 18 07:28:24 <gambler> BHSPitMonkey, in theory, an abacus. In practice anything linux-2.6 can run on.
Nov 18 07:28:35 <spikebike> yeah that sounds right
Nov 18 07:28:51 <spikebike> if you just want a dialer and a contact database I would be surprised if 64 MB wasn't plenty
Nov 18 07:28:52 <Fnord^-> Tue Nov 18 01:28:39 2008 Cipher algorithm 'BF-CBC' not found (OpenSSL)
Nov 18 07:28:53 <Fnord^-> =[
Nov 18 07:29:17 <spikebike> if you want user applications, youtube, and the browser than 128-192 seems more reasonable
Nov 18 07:29:46 <gambler> Fnord^-, include bouncy castle and it works
Nov 18 07:30:03 <Fnord^-> gambler, clarify 'bouncy castle' ?
Nov 18 07:30:04 <BHSPitMonkey> Mmk.  I read posts from people claiming 128MB to be a hard requirement, thought it seemed suspect.
Nov 18 07:30:20 <spikebike> you can fire up the emulator with 64MB
Nov 18 07:30:21 <gambler> Fnord^-, its a java crypto provider
Nov 18 07:30:51 <BHSPitMonkey> Well, thanks for the answers.  Night!
Nov 18 07:30:55 <Fnord^-> gambler, oh. this is linking to /system/lib/lib(crypto|ssl).so and is an ansi c program
Nov 18 07:30:56 <gambler> Fnord^-, its included in the source distribution but its a cut down version I believe and its been hidden from the public APIs
Nov 18 07:30:57 <spikebike> if the g1 can handle 6 ish processes going changing that to 1-2 and avoiding the biggest ones should help alot
Nov 18 07:31:20 <Fnord^-> gambler, trying to use bionic and the native openssl for openvpn. looks like that's not feasable
Nov 18 07:32:11 <gambler> Fnord^-, there is indeed a wrapper around openssl that works but you need BC to handle dealing with KeyStores and TrustStores
Nov 18 07:33:11 <BHSPitMonkey> spikebike, my phone has no wifi/gps, and I don't use data apps in particular.  For my needs, I may be able to get it chugging along it sounds like.
Nov 18 07:33:11 <Fnord^-> gambler, so I can link a native app against this and it's compatible with openssl functions?
Nov 18 07:33:30 <Fnord^-> wouldn't think I could with a java lib
Nov 18 07:33:54 <gambler> Fnord^-, oh. your program? ...well android doesnt support C code officially.
Nov 18 07:34:18 <Fnord^-> gambler, this is openvpn. no way will it run in dalvik
Nov 18 07:34:31 * Fnord^- rebuilds openssl and statically links. twitch.
Nov 18 07:34:53 <gambler> ah ok. I thought you were just trying to use the java ssl support
Nov 18 07:35:34 <Fnord^-> neh
Nov 18 07:35:47 <Fnord^-> This is root level tinkery
Nov 18 07:38:22 <gambler> Fnord^-, your working on OpenVPN client - is that to use the phone as a modem?
Nov 18 07:39:21 <Fnord^-> gambler, to route all traffic securely through one's server
Nov 18 07:39:57 <Fnord^-> I imagine it could be useful in tethering, if you're paranoid
Nov 18 07:40:15 <Fnord^-> It's pretty much point to point IP over UDP
Nov 18 07:41:24 <gambler> yep I was just wondering what your usecase was
Nov 18 07:41:42 * Fnord^- is paranoid :>
Nov 18 07:42:02 <Fnord^-> Not that g1 is really secure but eh
Nov 18 07:42:06 <Fnord^-> It's also neat
Nov 18 07:42:52 <gambler> yeah well. whatever traffic leaves your serves endpoint ...
Nov 18 07:42:59 <jasta> i wouldnt think paranoid people would even use cell phones
Nov 18 07:43:11 <gambler> hes a progressive paranoid
Nov 18 07:43:17 <gambler> the ICBM will go to his server room instead
Nov 18 07:43:19 <Fnord^-> :P
Nov 18 07:43:34 <gambler> :p
Nov 18 07:43:52 <jasta> sigh cant skleep
Nov 18 07:44:00 * jasta curses android
Nov 18 07:44:41 <Leeds> Android is keeping you awake?
Nov 18 07:48:49 <Foxdie> he has nightmares
Nov 18 07:49:00 <Foxdie> about how there won't be anymore RC patches :)
Nov 18 07:49:18 <Leeds> heh
Nov 18 07:50:43 * zhobbs remembers having dreams about Android code during ADC crunch time
Nov 18 08:02:43 <jasta> night folks
Nov 18 08:02:52 <Leeds> afternoon
Nov 18 08:22:31 <zezu> are there any / many accelerated drivers for 3d chipsets for android?  specifically looking for newer PowerVR drivers
Nov 18 08:49:12 <rem1x> test
Nov 18 08:50:22 <spikebike> tset
Nov 18 09:03:07 <Fnord^-> http://g1.fnord.to/crypto/
Nov 18 09:03:08 <Fnord^-> :P
Nov 18 09:05:07 <rem1x> init
Nov 18 09:14:05 <P1ro> o_O
Nov 18 09:14:07 <P1ro> hi
Nov 18 09:22:28 <P1ro> anyone around ?
Nov 18 09:23:16 <Leeds> P1ro: no
Nov 18 09:23:23 <P1ro> muahahhaa
Nov 18 09:24:09 <P1ro> anyone here own a G1 ?
Nov 18 09:24:19 <Leeds> lots of people
Nov 18 09:24:28 <kid> but not me
Nov 18 09:24:31 <P1ro> have lots of question about it
Nov 18 09:24:55 <P1ro> how many space it have ?
Nov 18 09:25:31 <P1ro> im reading on gsmarena it have just 192 MB RAM, 256 MB ROM
Nov 18 09:25:37 <P1ro> but that its kinda low
Nov 18 09:25:53 <Adamant> 192mb RAM is more than the iTouch IIRC
Nov 18 09:26:22 <Leeds> and a microSDHC slot
Nov 18 09:26:41 <P1ro> microSDHC tested?
Nov 18 09:26:42 <P1ro> nice
Nov 18 09:27:13 <Leeds> I believe there are reports of 16GB cards working
Nov 18 09:27:40 <P1ro> i cant find any 16G
Nov 18 09:27:46 <P1ro> on newegg right now
Nov 18 09:28:11 <kid> they sell g1 phone cost $800 in my local
Nov 18 09:28:31 <kid> what about ur local?
Nov 18 09:29:36 <spikebike> where are you kid?
Nov 18 09:29:39 <spikebike> $400 ish here
Nov 18 09:29:53 <kid> vietnam
Nov 18 09:30:01 <spikebike> 8GB cards are cheap and work fine
Nov 18 09:30:04 <spikebike> $30 USA
Nov 18 09:30:10 <kid> wow
Nov 18 09:30:13 <spikebike> I've not tried a 16, those are much more expensive/rare
Nov 18 09:36:09 <P1ro> 8G should be the best option
Nov 18 09:36:52 <kid> 8G come with g1 phone as default ?
Nov 18 09:38:11 <languish> G1 comes with 1 or 2 gig microsd card, depending on if it's USA or .uk G1
Nov 18 09:39:05 <d0nets> anyone have the svn link to jasta's five-alpha?
Nov 18 09:39:13 <languish> it can support up to 16GB microSDHC currently (and possibly greater when they hit the market)
Nov 18 09:39:46 <kid> languish: thanks
Nov 18 09:41:53 <kid> why do you like android ? (why not iphone) ? lol
Nov 18 09:42:07 <languish> physical keyboard
Nov 18 09:42:18 <languish> n the G1
Nov 18 09:42:32 <d0nets> plus its more open
Nov 18 09:43:00 <languish> 'eh
Nov 18 09:43:21 <spikebike> MMS, Multitasking, unrestricted apps
Nov 18 09:43:25 <P1ro> spikebike where you found the G1 on 400$
Nov 18 09:43:26 <kid> opensource
Nov 18 09:43:37 <spikebike> piro tmo stores
Nov 18 09:43:45 <P1ro> o_O
Nov 18 09:43:55 <P1ro> and if i wanna buy it without plan ?
Nov 18 09:43:56 <d0nets> i saw a seller sell 5 g1's within 4 days for 550+ shipping
Nov 18 09:43:59 <d0nets> unlocked though
Nov 18 09:44:04 <spikebike> $400
Nov 18 09:44:08 <spikebike> $180 with
Nov 18 09:44:09 <languish> $400 is the no plan price
Nov 18 09:44:33 <P1ro> wonder if turbo sim will work for G1
Nov 18 09:45:09 <spikebike> dunno
Nov 18 09:45:14 <Leeds> it does
Nov 18 09:45:17 <P1ro> since i wanna buy it but its not avaliable on my country
Nov 18 09:45:17 <spikebike> tmo gives unlock for free after 3 months
Nov 18 09:45:23 <Leeds> or at least, they're being sold in HK with turbosim
Nov 18 09:45:24 <spikebike> $23 buys an instant unlock
Nov 18 09:45:38 <P1ro> to t-mobile ?
Nov 18 09:45:56 <Leeds> spikebike: are they actually *available* for $399?
Nov 18 09:45:58 <P1ro> or anyother people ?
Nov 18 09:46:03 <spikebike> leeds ya
Nov 18 09:46:18 <spikebike> usually requires some searching/arm twisting
Nov 18 09:46:26 <spikebike> they prefer to sell on contract of coruse
Nov 18 09:46:28 <Leeds> the impression I'd got was that they said it would be, but they hadn't got around to it
Nov 18 09:46:50 <Leeds> anyway, that's still a locked phone, I assume
Nov 18 09:46:59 <spikebike> ya, thus the $23
Nov 18 09:47:47 <Leeds> so why aren't they flooding the world for $450?
Nov 18 09:49:03 <spikebike> because supply is contrained
Nov 18 09:49:13 <spikebike> and it's a pain in the ass to get one
Nov 18 09:49:23 <spikebike> so folks want at least another $100-$200
Nov 18 09:49:38 <spikebike> after all they are fronting $400
Nov 18 09:49:51 <spikebike> I suspect supply will catch up in the next month or two
Nov 18 09:50:34 <Leeds> ah, the cost of being an early adopter :-()
Nov 18 09:50:39 <Leeds> :-(
Nov 18 09:51:26 <spikebike> heh, was cheap to me
Nov 18 09:51:37 <spikebike> $140 ish
Nov 18 09:52:13 <Leeds> on contract though?
Nov 18 09:52:20 <spikebike> ya
Nov 18 09:52:27 <Leeds> how much is the contract?
Nov 18 09:52:54 <spikebike> I've yet to get the first bill
Nov 18 09:53:04 <spikebike> $109 list for 2 lines, 2 data plans
Nov 18 09:53:08 <spikebike> and er 700 minutes
Nov 18 09:53:14 <spikebike> free nights, weekends, and m2m
Nov 18 09:53:18 <Leeds> so say $55 each
Nov 18 09:53:30 <spikebike> this a discount takes 18% of that or somessuch
Nov 18 09:54:37 <Leeds> works out almost *exactly* the same over the next year
Nov 18 09:54:51 <Leeds> my monthly is more like US$20
Nov 18 09:55:05 <spikebike> for just voice?
Nov 18 09:55:08 <spikebike> or voice and data?
Nov 18 09:55:33 <Leeds> voice and EDGE/wifi
Nov 18 09:55:43 <Leeds> not 3G
Nov 18 09:55:45 <spikebike> nice, that's hard to beat
Nov 18 09:55:51 <spikebike> with who?
Nov 18 09:55:58 <Leeds> Peoples
Nov 18 09:56:15 <spikebike> heh, well I "have" 3g, but don't receive 3g
Nov 18 09:56:36 <Leeds> http://www.peoples.com.hk/p_tariff_tariff_data_iso.jsp
Nov 18 09:58:53 <Leeds> I could get a similar package on 3G, with 60MB of data thrown in, then usage charges capped around US$50 total
Nov 18 09:59:13 <spikebike> g1 3g is not compatible with any other 3g afaik
Nov 18 09:59:22 <spikebike> it's usa specific
Nov 18 09:59:32 <spikebike> even in the use, it's tmo only.
Nov 18 09:59:36 <spikebike> usa
Nov 18 09:59:42 <Leeds> so the ones being sold in the UK are a different model?
Nov 18 10:00:02 <spikebike> that I don't know
Nov 18 10:00:04 <tric> hmm, isnt the us t-mo 3g the same as used by all in .eu?
Nov 18 10:00:29 <spikebike> the usa is a strange one
Nov 18 10:00:34 <tric> so its t-mo specific in the us
Nov 18 10:00:42 <spikebike> ya, maybe that's it
Nov 18 10:01:01 <Leeds> so in fact it's compatible with *every* other 3G, apart from AT&T? :-)
Nov 18 10:01:26 <tauno> spikebike, the UK model works with any operator in Europe (I mean 3G) (and I don't know for sure for Germany.. since they are a little weird there)
Nov 18 10:01:28 <tric> its compatible with every other 3g *outside* of the us, _afaik_
Nov 18 10:01:48 <tric> tauno: thats wird in germany?
Nov 18 10:01:52 <Leeds> I happen to have a 3G SIM here, which may or may not be active... let's try it
Nov 18 10:01:53 <tric> thats=whats?
Nov 18 10:02:06 <tric> send me a g1 and ill test it ;)
Nov 18 10:02:19 <P1ro> si the 3G will not work on my network (movistar) 3G ?
Nov 18 10:02:34 <P1ro> its same 3G as iphone right ?
Nov 18 10:02:49 <spikebike> iphone 3g != g1 3g
Nov 18 10:02:52 <spikebike> at least in the usa
Nov 18 10:03:30 <P1ro> then should be the same on thers places
Nov 18 10:04:07 <Leeds> let's see what this SIM does then
Nov 18 10:04:09 <tauno> tric, aren't they using some kind of strange cdma netowrk there? :)
Nov 18 10:06:24 <DarkriftX> gn all
Nov 18 10:06:26 <DarkriftX> bed time for me
Nov 18 10:07:25 <P1ro> what is the faster microSDHC around ? and what class stand for microsd?
Nov 18 10:07:39 <spikebike> type 6
Nov 18 10:08:13 <P1ro> then class/type its about the speed
Nov 18 10:08:38 <P1ro> lol no kinston class 6 microSDHC 8G :s
Nov 18 10:08:54 <languish> type 8 is the fastest currently available for any sane pricing
Nov 18 10:08:57 <spikebike> g1 does well, i can irc and walk B-)
Nov 18 10:09:07 <Leeds> seems not to be booting very much with this (possibly-inactive) 3G SIM
Nov 18 10:09:09 <languish> *class 8
Nov 18 10:09:39 <languish> but class 6 is just fine. on a g1 you're not going to see any difference that matters so greatly
Nov 18 10:09:55 <spikebike> 6 was the fastest reanonably priced i found
Nov 18 10:10:04 <Leeds> 6 and 4 are the common ones
Nov 18 10:10:57 <spikebike> brrr,kinda cool
Nov 18 10:11:03 <spikebike> out
Nov 18 10:12:37 <tric> tauno: dunno
Nov 18 10:18:01 <Leeds> argh, not booting!
Nov 18 10:21:52 <Leeds> veyr argh!
Nov 18 10:22:39 <Leeds> why the fuck won't my phone boot?
Nov 18 10:23:54 <P1ro> the G1 have opengl ?
Nov 18 10:24:09 <spikebike> outya
Nov 18 10:24:15 <spikebike> ya es
Nov 18 10:24:36 <kIDDAI> cg 4 bricking :)
Nov 18 10:24:50 <P1ro> nice
Nov 18 10:25:05 <P1ro> 1.0? 2.0?
Nov 18 10:25:56 <spikebike> 6dunno, gooogle is your friend
Nov 18 10:26:03 <P1ro> hahaha
Nov 18 10:26:24 <P1ro> btw its there any other phone coming soon with android ?
Nov 18 10:26:58 <spikebike> open.oko and some strange .auphone
Nov 18 10:27:25 <neerhaj> and some chinese phones
Nov 18 10:27:41 <P1ro> so the G1 its best option for android
Nov 18 10:28:00 <spikebike> yup, for now
Nov 18 10:28:08 <P1ro> i dont know why if there are others better HTC phones thet choose G1 :s
Nov 18 10:28:31 <P1ro> wonder if they gonna name other G2
Nov 18 10:28:32 <P1ro> lol
Nov 18 10:28:59 <spikebike> well the touch HD has a nicer screen, more pixels, more ram, but worse touchscreen
Nov 18 10:29:05 <spikebike> but no android 8-(
Nov 18 10:29:09 <P1ro> yeah
Nov 18 10:29:33 <P1ro> i have a wizzard and touch screen SUCKS
Nov 18 10:29:46 * Leeds is getting a little scared
Nov 18 10:29:59 <P1ro> the G1 have same touch screen as iphone ?
Nov 18 10:30:11 <spikebike> same tech
Nov 18 10:30:24 <P1ro> the touchscreen of iphone its the best i have see
Nov 18 10:30:33 <P1ro> nice
Nov 18 10:32:10 <Fnord^-> I'd like something bigger. Bigger keyboard, bigger battery
Nov 18 10:32:18 <Leeds> seriously now folks... I got me something like a brick
Nov 18 10:32:23 <P1ro> no shit
Nov 18 10:32:27 <P1ro> bigger sucks
Nov 18 10:32:31 <Fnord^-> Leeds, what did you do?
Nov 18 10:32:40 <spikebike> fnord I hear ya
Nov 18 10:32:46 <spikebike> and agree
Nov 18 10:32:49 <spikebike> even just 10%
Nov 18 10:32:58 <P1ro> thats one of the good stuuf of the iphone its too small
Nov 18 10:32:59 <Leeds> shutdown
Nov 18 10:33:01 <spikebike> not that I'd mind 25%
Nov 18 10:33:13 <P1ro> stuff*
Nov 18 10:33:34 <spikebike> n800 size would be nice, ideally with a display that's somewhat bigger in the same physical size as the n800
Nov 18 10:33:35 <Fnord^-> Leeds, shut down the phone, or 'shutdown' as root?
Nov 18 10:33:42 <Leeds> Fnord^-: shutdown the phone
Nov 18 10:33:51 <spikebike> might actually fit from the ear and the mouth on a normal human head
Nov 18 10:34:00 <Fnord^-> What happens when you try to start it up?
Nov 18 10:34:11 <Leeds> I can get into the bootloader with power+camera, otherwise all I get is the big G1 logo
Nov 18 10:34:26 <Fnord^-> Then it just sits there, or turns off?
Nov 18 10:34:36 <spikebike> ugh, leeds what happened?
Nov 18 10:34:56 <Leeds> just sits there
Nov 18 10:35:00 <Leeds> spikebike: no idea
Nov 18 10:35:08 <spikebike> just spontaneously?
Nov 18 10:35:13 <spikebike> did you have root?
Nov 18 10:35:14 <Leeds> pretty much
Nov 18 10:35:14 <Fnord^-> adb work?
Nov 18 10:35:18 <neerhaj> Leeds: tried the recovery mode ?
Nov 18 10:35:27 <Leeds> I did have root, can't get to recovery mode, haven't tried adb
Nov 18 10:35:42 <Leeds> but it doesn't appear to be getting far enough up to appear on the USB
Nov 18 10:35:50 <Leeds> need a console :-(
Nov 18 10:35:53 <spikebike> it never appears on usb
Nov 18 10:36:14 <spikebike> sounds like you could do an update.zip from the bootloader
Nov 18 10:36:18 <neerhaj> was the battery low ?
Nov 18 10:36:29 <spikebike> oh is that only from recovery mode?
Nov 18 10:36:32 <Leeds> neerhaj: not particularly
Nov 18 10:36:34 <Leeds> spikebike: I think so
Nov 18 10:36:35 <Fnord^-> update.zip needs recovery not bootloader
Nov 18 10:36:42 <P1ro> well thank you guys alot! :D i will idle here ! and i hope i dont change y mind on buying a G1 :D i just love teh open source os :D
Nov 18 10:37:00 <spikebike> yeah I'd fully charge it
Nov 18 10:37:17 <Fnord^-> regardless it should boot if it's getting power via usb
Nov 18 10:37:20 <spikebike> leeds where are you physically?
Nov 18 10:37:21 <Leeds> the battery wasn't particularly low - above 50% at least, I think
Nov 18 10:37:25 <Leeds> spikebike: Hong Kong
Nov 18 10:37:42 <spikebike> ah, I wonder if a bad sd card would do that
Nov 18 10:37:49 <spikebike> factory card?
Nov 18 10:37:59 <Leeds> let me take my card out
Nov 18 10:38:52 <spikebike> have you dropped it lately?
Nov 18 10:38:57 <Leeds> nope
Nov 18 10:39:14 <spikebike> ugh, best of luck, I need sleep
Nov 18 10:39:28 <Leeds> so do I :-(
Nov 18 10:56:49 <kRutOn> Leeds: were you hacking on it or something?
Nov 18 10:57:05 <Leeds> no
Nov 18 10:57:07 <kRutOn> Leeds: or did you let those folks at Golden Computer City 'borrow' it? :-)
Nov 18 10:57:22 <P1ro> ok back
Nov 18 10:57:34 <Leeds> I was taking it down to try a different SIM, but I think it happened when it went down, rather than when it came back up with the wrong SIM
Nov 18 10:57:43 <P1ro> btw, anyone know wich wireless chipset G1 have ?
Nov 18 10:58:05 <Leeds> really not happy
Nov 18 10:58:21 <Leeds> and it's from Mongkok, not SSP, thank you very much
Nov 18 10:58:57 <languish> leeds
Nov 18 10:59:11 <Leeds> I could try the real emergency factory reset at http://android-dls.com/wiki/index.php?title=Boot_Modifiers but I'd prefer not to lose everything
Nov 18 10:59:22 <Leeds> languish: ?
Nov 18 10:59:37 <languish> something similar happened to me. I pulled the battery. then put it back in. then without turning it on, chraged it up full with the wall outlet charger
Nov 18 10:59:42 <languish> then turned ti on
Nov 18 10:59:45 <cmonex> <spikebike> n800 size would be nice --->no no, go for n810 size :)
Nov 18 10:59:47 <languish> it just worked after that
Nov 18 10:59:50 <Leeds> was it sticking at the G1 logo?
Nov 18 10:59:55 <languish> yes
Nov 18 11:00:05 <Leeds> hmm, I guess I'll try it, thanks
Nov 18 11:00:09 <languish> good luck
Nov 18 11:00:16 <Leeds> pity I've got to go out in a couple of minutes
Nov 18 11:00:23 <cmonex> Leeds: i guess the radio image is what doesnt boot up
Nov 18 11:00:27 <Leeds> thanks
Nov 18 11:00:27 <cmonex> well maybe that battery trick fixes it!
Nov 18 11:00:46 <neekers> leeds: what time is it where you are?
Nov 18 11:00:47 <languish> hopefully :/
Nov 18 11:01:01 <neekers> hi languish
Nov 18 11:01:04 <Leeds> neekers: 7pm
Nov 18 11:01:07 <languish> heya neekers
Nov 18 11:01:09 <languish> how goes
Nov 18 11:01:54 <neekers> pretty cool, still digging my ditch out to my barn and loving it way more than coding at my box
Nov 18 11:02:01 <languish> :)
Nov 18 11:03:38 <neekers> leeds: hong kong?
Nov 18 11:05:40 <Leeds> yup
Nov 18 11:06:21 <neekers> nice place, i like staying at the ymca on kowloon
Nov 18 11:07:10 <Leeds> never stayed there
Nov 18 11:07:20 <Leeds> got to go, will report back status of phone in a couple of hours
Nov 18 11:08:22 <neekers> take care
Nov 18 11:09:04 <neekers> i'm listening to "play that funky nusic white boy"... do i need a life?
Nov 18 11:09:09 <neekers> musinc even
Nov 18 11:09:20 <neekers> crap...
Nov 18 11:10:18 <neekers> time for a little rush
Nov 18 11:10:28 <neekers> spirit of radio
Nov 18 11:11:21 <neekers> i should get back on topic, but at 3 in the morning, i'm not highly motivated
Nov 18 11:14:18 <Fnord^-> http://www.collegehumor.com/video:1890303
Nov 18 11:18:36 <neekers> ok, that was wierd
Nov 18 11:19:38 <neekers> weird.... sorry languish, i blew it on the i before e rule again... :o)
Nov 18 11:20:00 <languish> o.O
Nov 18 11:20:51 <neekers> do you know young lust by pink floyd?
Nov 18 11:20:52 <languish> the spelling of my nick may indicated my great concern, or lack thereof, for such things :|
Nov 18 11:21:02 <languish> *indicate
Nov 18 11:21:40 <languish> yeah
Nov 18 11:21:44 <Smoke_Screen> Hi everyone
Nov 18 11:21:54 <neekers> i don't know you well. but i have wondered what you are languishing about
Nov 18 11:24:08 <Smoke_Screen> Was wondering if some knows how Android handles networking with ports
Nov 18 11:24:08 <Smoke_Screen> I see you can port forward from the host machine to the emulator but is that necessary if the port you want to use is available on te host machine and not blocked?
Nov 18 11:24:08 <Smoke_Screen> ie the port I create a connction with on the emulator is accessed externally via the internet by that same port number?
Nov 18 11:24:13 <neekers> do you ever get tired of your own music collection?
Nov 18 11:25:07 <languish> neekers, the nick is a double entendre in a way, or a homonym if you prefer. perhaps the meaning you take it for is the lack of bluetooth?
Nov 18 11:25:08 <languish> :P
Nov 18 11:25:23 <tric> smoke_screen: its qemu, you can access it by its ip 10.0.2.15 with the correct startup params
Nov 18 11:26:04 <tric> smoke_screen: so there is no need for crazy port forwarding and stuff
Nov 18 11:26:06 <neekers> do you lack bluetooth?
Nov 18 11:26:46 <languish> well lack of a2dp, among other things. not bluetooth overall
Nov 18 11:26:50 <languish> bit tired :)
Nov 18 11:27:31 <neekers> me too
Nov 18 11:28:12 <neekers> i'll have to show you pictures of the "big dig", the sewer pipe back to the barn
Nov 18 11:29:01 <languish> heh
Nov 18 11:29:24 <neekers> tonight was a big night, after 3 weeks of digging i finally completed hooking up the sewer pump, will the excitement never end...
Nov 18 11:29:31 <languish> so teh livestock will have 'el sanito facilitores?
Nov 18 11:29:35 <languish> :P
Nov 18 11:29:56 <neekers> i'm going to move into the barn and rent out my house
Nov 18 11:30:07 <languish> o.O
Nov 18 11:30:56 <languish> call it a "loft"
Nov 18 11:31:00 <languish> it may be a hayloft
Nov 18 11:31:07 <languish> but who's gonna tell...
Nov 18 11:32:17 <neekers> it's a very nice loft... :o)
Nov 18 11:32:29 <languish> :)
Nov 18 11:32:51 <languish> just fon't start wearing red and blue and asking people to call you "clark"
Nov 18 11:32:54 <languish> *don't
Nov 18 11:33:00 <languish> :|
Nov 18 11:33:48 <neekers> i stopped believing i was superman was i was young... it was a rude awakening to find out i wasn't
Nov 18 11:34:35 <languish> at least you weren't concerned with finding out you weren't wonder woman either
Nov 18 11:34:39 <languish> :)
Nov 18 11:34:48 <neekers> heheh
Nov 18 11:34:54 <neekers> that is a good thing....
Nov 18 11:34:58 <languish> hah
Nov 18 11:35:41 <languish> I'm such a cityboy, I can't relate to digging a ditch to run a sewer line to the barn
Nov 18 11:35:44 <languish> *sigh*
Nov 18 11:36:59 <languish> then again, crickets drive me nuts too
Nov 18 11:37:02 <neekers> i used to be, living in l.a. for 17 years, but living on a septic is cool, it's quiet and i like that
Nov 18 11:37:13 <languish> nod
Nov 18 11:37:30 <languish> i need the sound of traffic in the distance, or outside:|
Nov 18 11:37:44 <languish> those are my "sounds of nature"
Nov 18 11:37:55 <languish> damned electric cars'll ruin my sleep
Nov 18 11:40:07 <neekers> i guess being able to hear things is ok, to keep quiet the noise in the head
Nov 18 11:40:10 <neekers> :o)
Nov 18 11:40:40 <languish> :)  ya it's my music
Nov 18 11:41:11 <languish> gonna go get my 2hrs shuteye
Nov 18 11:41:14 <P1ro> btw, anyone know wich wireless chipset the G1 have ?
Nov 18 11:41:44 <neekers> later
Nov 18 12:12:04 <gambler__> can I: layout.addView(TableLayout) retrieved with findViewById ? I get NPE
Nov 18 12:14:20 <gambler__> same with addView(View.inflate(context,R.layout.foo,this));
Nov 18 12:21:46 <Leeds> well, that was a lot quicker than I expected, but the phone seems to still be dead :-(
Nov 18 12:23:08 <languish> :(
Nov 18 12:23:11 <Leeds> of course, if there was a way to backup the device... eh, I probably wouldn't be using it
Nov 18 12:23:42 <Leeds> let's try leaving it without power for a while... never know
Nov 18 12:24:34 <Disconnect> you can back it up with root.
Nov 18 12:31:48 <Leeds> I shall leave it battery-less while I watch Heroes, then see what happens
Nov 18 12:35:26 <filosofico> hi ... there is a way to access android.os.ServiceManager within an application? ... thanks
Nov 18 13:22:22 <tauno> whoopsie - : ERROR/dalvikvm-heap(1335): Out of memory on a 195521645-byte allocation.
Nov 18 13:22:25 <bert0> When does the next version of the sdk come out?
Nov 18 13:22:43 <bert0> good morning by the way
Nov 18 13:22:55 <languish> when it finds a belt to go with those pumps
Nov 18 13:22:57 <languish> :|
Nov 18 13:23:21 <bert0> erm... ok
Nov 18 13:23:35 <jbq> bert0: the fewer dates we announce in advance, the less likely we are to slip.
Nov 18 13:23:46 <bert0> I can appreciate that
Nov 18 13:24:37 <tauno> ..so I guess i won't be able to allocate >160MB just for fun..
Nov 18 13:24:59 <tauno> (;
Nov 18 13:25:25 <jbq> tauno: correct ;-)
Nov 18 13:26:36 <jbq> bert0: non-commitments aside, there's some work going on to help release future SDKs (e.g. refining the tools that help us maintain application compatibility).
Nov 18 13:28:24 <bert0> can you name some of the tools in specific that you all are innovating?  non-commitments aside of course
Nov 18 13:28:58 <jbq> the two tools I have in mind right now are droiddoc and apicheck.
Nov 18 13:29:17 <bert0> I love the OS by the way and I'm having a blast learning java in order to make my own apps
Nov 18 13:29:34 <languish> also, as it's been stated you won't break binary compatibility, then.. what could break with the future sdk's and G1 uodates?
Nov 18 13:29:51 <languish> *updates
Nov 18 13:29:56 <jbq> Hopefully, nothing ;-)
Nov 18 13:30:00 <languish> heh
Nov 18 13:30:20 <Disconnect> jbq: is any of the history/discussion that lead to the security policy online anywhere? (selinux vs user/group, limitations, etc)
Nov 18 13:30:29 * languish keeps his fingers crossed
Nov 18 13:31:13 <jbq> Disconnect: probably not - a lot of that happened behind my time, and I assume that things happened as hallway discussions and weren't necessarily recorded.
Nov 18 13:32:27 <jbq> languish: seriously, there could be some unwanted API changes (e.g. changes in intents that get sent/received, or changing in content provider schemas) that are actually hard to track.
Nov 18 13:32:48 <languish> nod
Nov 18 13:33:35 <languish> I'm actually hoping for certain changes that would likely break a few existing apps
Nov 18 13:33:45 <languish> but would be better for all
Nov 18 13:33:54 <languish> + here on in
Nov 18 13:33:54 <jbq> languish: there could also be some subtle changes in the way some APIs work, which could break things (e.g. in the threading model of certain things changes)
Nov 18 13:34:30 * Disconnect would love to see temporary/partial security permissions. (.."I love app foowiki but wtf does it keep sending my location to their server?")
Nov 18 13:34:31 <jbq> very obviously, there could be all the cases where apps use unsupported APIs.
Nov 18 13:34:46 <languish> I mean, I hope the changes don't break things, but personally I'd be ok with it if the functionality were what I hope for
Nov 18 13:35:06 <languish> so long as the "next big update" were the last time it happened
Nov 18 13:35:20 <languish> (in any significant sense)
Nov 18 13:35:39 <jbq> finally, there could be cases where apps have bugs (i.e. make wrong assumptions) and break when those assumptions become inaccurate.
Nov 18 13:35:48 <jbq> languish: any specific issue you have in mind?
Nov 18 13:36:24 <languish> jbq, nothing we haven't discussed before.. the rule based access and filtering of incomming sms's and such
Nov 18 13:36:25 <Disconnect> ..multitouch :)
Nov 18 13:36:44 <languish> nah, I'm not as hung up on multitouch as I pretend to be :)
Nov 18 13:37:11 <languish> though, i could use a bit more accuracy with the touch functions
Nov 18 13:37:12 <jbq> languish: I'm pretty sure that those can be refined or added without breaking compatibility.
Nov 18 13:37:41 <jbq> languish: the accuracy is not as much an API issue as a hardware (and possibly framework) issue.
Nov 18 13:38:08 <languish> and finger functionality :)
Nov 18 13:38:20 <bert0> and copyright?
Nov 18 13:38:35 <languish> I'm considering getting a capacitive friendly stylus, but.. no place om the G1 to store it
Nov 18 13:38:37 <mpardo> what's this i'm reading about multitouch on gizmodo?
Nov 18 13:38:50 <dsargeant> I'm having trouble figuring out how to enable/disable bluetooth programmatically.  Anybody know how?
Nov 18 13:38:56 <languish> mpardo ignore it. instead there
Nov 18 13:39:05 <languish> 's a better link that's more definitive
Nov 18 13:39:07 <languish> hang on
Nov 18 13:39:14 <mpardo> ryeblog?
Nov 18 13:39:21 <languish> yes
Nov 18 13:39:25 <Disconnect> http://tinyurl.com/g1multi
Nov 18 13:39:43 <languish> if it links to that, read his comments at the bottom
Nov 18 13:39:48 * Disconnect can't tell you what you are reading on gizmodo tho
Nov 18 13:39:56 <languish> the "Update"
Nov 18 13:40:21 <languish> Disconnect's tinyurl leads to what I was talking about
Nov 18 13:40:32 <bert0> mpardo do you have a link?
Nov 18 13:40:35 <mpardo> yep
Nov 18 13:41:42 <mpardo> bert0: wait to what? the giz article? there's nothing there really it just links to ryeblog
Nov 18 13:43:26 <Disconnect> does anyone know of a pin-compatible identically-sized/resolution/etc ts unit that is only singletouch? thats kinda a big piece of "they might swap it out" (and looking at the synaptic website didn't turn one up, although a couple much smaller manufs do have single-touch capacitive screens in small sizes)
Nov 18 13:43:44 <Disconnect> no exact-match sizes that i saw tho
Nov 18 13:44:05 <filosofico> hi ... An intent launched with startActivityForResult could return an object of type "IBinder"?  ... thanks
Nov 18 13:44:44 <Leeds> left it powerless for more than an hour, will it boot?
Nov 18 13:45:44 <Leeds> all signs point to 'no' :-(
Nov 18 13:47:27 <Disconnect> Leeds: did you try reflashing it from sd?
Nov 18 13:47:35 <Leeds> jbq: any idea on a G1 which won't boot past the big G1 logo?
Nov 18 13:47:41 <Leeds> Disconnect: no, I didn't try that
Nov 18 13:47:48 <Disconnect> (with either the stock rc30 or the modified, depending on which one you had on there before)
Nov 18 13:47:55 <Leeds> that would require getting as far as recovery mode, right?
Nov 18 13:47:59 <Disconnect> or rc28/29 if you weren't on 30 yet
Nov 18 13:48:05 <jbq> Leeds: ow, that doesn't sound good.
Nov 18 13:48:06 <Disconnect> yah but thats before the logos
Nov 18 13:48:16 <Disconnect> er, before the robot anyway
Nov 18 13:48:24 <Leeds> I'm not getting as far as the robot
Nov 18 13:48:35 <jbq> Leeds: did you happen to have USB debugging enabled before that happened?
Nov 18 13:48:41 <Leeds> I can get to the bootloader, or the 'blue light special'
Nov 18 13:48:46 <Leeds> jbq: I believe so
Nov 18 13:49:22 <Disconnect> if you got to the bootloader, you can reflash from sd
Nov 18 13:49:25 <jbq> Leeds: if you could plug into USB and run "adb logcat" while that happens, that'd give us some information (or tell us that it dies so early that it doesn't even get there).
Nov 18 13:49:46 <Leeds> jbq: I did try connecting with adb before, and it didn't seem to get that far
Nov 18 13:49:49 <Leeds> Disconnect: how?
Nov 18 13:50:33 <Disconnect> http://www.cellfanatic.com/2008/11/03/how-to-manually-update-your-g1-with-rc29
Nov 18 13:50:39 <jbq> Leeds: then I really don't know what that could be. Can you get into recovery?
Nov 18 13:50:42 <Leeds> certainly adb devices wasn't reporting any connection
Nov 18 13:51:11 <Leeds> jbq: as above - doesn't seem to want to go into recovery... that's power+menu, right?
Nov 18 13:51:31 <jbq> hole home while booting (menu is safe mode)
Nov 18 13:51:38 <jbq> s/hole/hold/
Nov 18 13:51:39 <infobot> jbq meant: hold home while booting (menu is safe mode)
Nov 18 13:51:40 <Leeds> ah, sorry, yes...
Nov 18 13:51:41 <Disconnect> http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=2847622&postcount=77 has pics
Nov 18 13:52:09 <Leeds> let's see if logcat does anything first
Nov 18 13:52:12 <Leeds> Disconnect: thanks
Nov 18 13:52:29 <Disconnect> but use the correct signature (if you had stock images, use another stock image.. if you had sd-modified images, use those. and if you weren't on rc30 and might want root, use rc29 :) ..)
Nov 18 13:52:40 <Leeds> I was on modified r30
Nov 18 13:52:54 <Leeds> which is slightly worrying...
Nov 18 13:54:37 <Disconnect> if it worked once it'll keep working :) but use that image to reflash cuz those are the keys that it'll have
Nov 18 13:56:18 <Leeds> actually, the update.zip which I installed from should still be there...
Nov 18 13:57:38 <Leeds> hmm, oops :-)
Nov 18 13:59:07 <Disconnect> ?
Nov 18 13:59:35 <Leeds> the USB hub which I have my cable plugged into wasn't powered up...
Nov 18 14:00:07 <Leeds> I was wondering why my phone was behaving as though it had power when plugged into the mains, but not when plugged into USB
Nov 18 14:00:56 <Disconnect> ..so it wasn't charged?
Nov 18 14:01:11 <Leeds> nah, I left it on the mains while I went out - it's well charged
Nov 18 14:02:13 <Disconnect> ah ok
Nov 18 14:04:48 <Leeds> right, have (apparently) done reset... will it boot?
Nov 18 14:05:46 <Leeds> Disconnect: you know the difference between the bootloader and the recovery mode?
Nov 18 14:06:29 <Disconnect> you were talking about safe mode i thought (menu button)
Nov 18 14:06:47 <Leeds> no, I said I could get to the bootloader, but not recovery mode
Nov 18 14:07:40 <Leeds> I cannot get past the big G1 logo
Nov 18 14:08:17 <languish> leeds, have you removed the microsd card yet?
Nov 18 14:08:27 <Leeds> I've just put it back in
Nov 18 14:08:42 <Disconnect> even holding down home? cuz you also said you were holding menu
Nov 18 14:09:00 <Leeds> Disconnect: and I corrected myself soon after
Nov 18 14:09:24 <Disconnect> ok. i didn't read that as "i'm holding home" I read that as "oh yeah, thats the wrong mode" and i never saw that holding home didn't work. sorry. <shrug>
Nov 18 14:09:51 <Leeds> fuck
Nov 18 14:11:27 <Leeds> holding down home+menu while booting does get me to a bootloader screen which offers to do a factory reset... unfortunately it doesn't seem to make any difference
Nov 18 14:12:33 <Disconnect> factory reset just wipes out your user data. prolly didn't want to do that :) try reflashing the update.
Nov 18 14:13:06 <languish> reflash with a new download of the modded r30, so you have the correct keys
Nov 18 14:13:33 <Leeds> reflash *how*?
Nov 18 14:15:45 <Leeds> languish, Disconnect: reflash *how*?  seriously, if I could, I would
Nov 18 14:16:05 <languish> Leeds, when you turn off the g1, then hold down home on boot for 10/20 seconds.. what exactly happens on screen? It freezes at the G1 logo?
Nov 18 14:16:22 <Disconnect> when i hold home+menu during boot i get the triangular warning bootloader. menu-l shows text, menu-s applies sdcard.
Nov 18 14:16:26 <Leeds> nothing... just G1 logo
Nov 18 14:16:48 <Leeds> I can't get to the bloody recovery mode, just the bloody bootloader!
Nov 18 14:17:14 <Leeds> sorry, appreciate the help, but getting quite unhappy with this situation
Nov 18 14:17:14 <languish> hmm, leeds, go through the steps, as if it went in to recovery mode.. do it blindy.
Nov 18 14:17:38 <languish> hold down home when it boots, keep home held down for say. 15 seconds
Nov 18 14:17:53 <languish> then let go, and hit alt-l ..etc
Nov 18 14:18:04 <languish> make sure the update is on the sdcard
Nov 18 14:18:11 <Leeds> seems like a pretty long shot, but okay
Nov 18 14:18:32 <languish> go through the process, take your time for each step since you're doing it blindly
Nov 18 14:18:47 <languish> yeah, it's just a shot in the dark
Nov 18 14:18:49 <Leeds> the alt-l shouldn't be neede
Nov 18 14:19:08 <languish> nod
Nov 18 14:20:46 <languish> after it's supposed to be flashed, hold down home and the back buttons
Nov 18 14:20:53 <languish> (sure you know that)
Nov 18 14:21:07 <Leeds> didn't know that
Nov 18 14:21:09 <languish> ah
Nov 18 14:21:18 <Leeds> anyway, nothing
Nov 18 14:21:25 <languish> :(
Nov 18 14:21:52 <Disconnect> so power+camera works but nothing else does? or..? just trying to figure out where you are.
Nov 18 14:22:25 <Leeds> power+camera works, power+ball works (makes the LED go blue), and power+back+home works, offers me a factory reset
Nov 18 14:22:46 <Leeds> anything else never goes past the big G1
Nov 18 14:23:17 <languish> may be the restore image was currupt
Nov 18 14:23:41 <Blice> join #n7c
Nov 18 14:23:43 <Blice> ..
Nov 18 14:23:45 <Leeds> maybe
Nov 18 14:23:46 <languish> no.
Nov 18 14:23:47 <Blice> Supposed to be a '/'
Nov 18 14:23:48 <Blice> :/
Nov 18 14:24:39 <languish> oh. well in that case, no.
Nov 18 14:24:41 <languish> :)
Nov 18 14:24:46 <Blice> :>
Nov 18 14:25:17 <languish> leeds, man.. you were in hong kong right?
Nov 18 14:25:21 <Leeds> yes
Nov 18 14:25:24 <languish> :(
Nov 18 14:25:46 <Leeds> :(
Nov 18 14:27:06 <Leeds> this is really quite exceptionally not good
Nov 18 14:27:14 <Disconnect> are you in a position to get it replaced by tmob?
Nov 18 14:27:21 <Disconnect> "it went to flash rc30 and then died"
Nov 18 14:27:40 <languish> leeds, source for it was in .uk?
Nov 18 14:27:47 <Leeds> I don't think tmob do warranty cover for devices which have been exported and resold on the grey market
Nov 18 14:27:49 <Leeds> no, US
Nov 18 14:28:22 <Leeds> I guess about all I can do is take it back to the store where I got it...
Nov 18 14:28:35 <Disconnect> yah thats prolly your only bet
Nov 18 14:28:36 <languish> ah, you bought it yourself?
Nov 18 14:28:37 <Leeds> which I *really* don't have time to do this week, and I'm going away for the weekend :-(
Nov 18 14:28:45 <Leeds> who else would have bought it?
Nov 18 14:28:48 <Disconnect> but don't run off yet
Nov 18 14:28:55 <languish> you may have gotten it via ebay or whatnot
Nov 18 14:29:07 <Leeds> Disconnect: I'm not going anywhere except bed soon... 10:30pm here and I'm exhausted
Nov 18 14:29:35 <Leeds> it's a grey import - I don't know what route it took to get to me, but I do know it came unlocked, so it probably officially belongs to someone else
Nov 18 14:29:53 <languish> ah so you didn't buy it directly, gotcha
Nov 18 14:30:11 <Leeds> I bought it from 'a store' - I didn't buy it from t-mobile
Nov 18 14:30:18 <languish> thought for a moment you had. my bad
Nov 18 14:30:51 <languish> I was going to offer to have a chat with my local tmo store manager to do a swap for you
Nov 18 14:31:03 <languish> but an unknown source.. not so sure about
Nov 18 14:31:04 <Leeds> thanks, but that ain't gonna work :-)
Nov 18 14:31:07 <languish> nod
Nov 18 14:31:18 <Leeds> Disconnect: did you have some idea?
Nov 18 14:31:57 <Disconnect> i might - not mine tho, someone else. they have to decide.
Nov 18 14:32:27 <Disconnect> just ooc what happened to start hte problem?
Nov 18 14:32:28 <Leeds> ok, brb
Nov 18 14:32:58 <Disconnect> (ok not ooc, but for real, what started this?)
Nov 18 14:33:30 <tauno> a silly question - how do I get the cursor position in a EditText?
Nov 18 14:33:38 * Disconnect is relaying questions
Nov 18 14:35:08 <languish> Leeds, see if they have a depot in HK, perhaps they have a few dreams in stock for wtf knows why. http://www.htc.com/hk-en/about_htc.aspx?id=20148
Nov 18 14:35:21 <orci> hi, where is the gps unit located inside the t-mob g1? is there a proper way to hold it to facilitate gps find th elocation sooner?
Nov 18 14:35:46 <languish> orci, you have to be in full view of the sky.
Nov 18 14:35:53 <languish> and it can take some time..
Nov 18 14:36:07 <languish> it needs to lock on to 3-4 satellites
Nov 18 14:36:35 <orci> languish, I am inside however I am in fornt of a huge window that does not mean the full view of sky I assume
Nov 18 14:36:50 <languish> a window may be ok, it can still take time
Nov 18 14:37:06 <orci> languish, and my house is by a lake :)
Nov 18 14:37:12 <languish> let it sit there with the gps on and some app seeking location.. for about 15 minutes
Nov 18 14:37:16 <languish> see if that help
Nov 18 14:37:23 <languish> *helps
Nov 18 14:37:32 <languish> beign outside is better
Nov 18 14:37:35 <languish> *being
Nov 18 14:37:39 <Disconnect> orci: if its still it can pick up pretty quick. make sure network assist is on also.
Nov 18 14:37:49 <Disconnect> if its moving, even with network assist, it can be 15 mins or more. pretty terrible :(
Nov 18 14:38:14 <Leeds> languish: I doubt it - it's not a 'dream', it's a 'T-Mobile G1'... in other words, t-mobile are the vendor, not HTC
Nov 18 14:38:43 <languish> Leeds, I understand, but it doesn't hurt to ask.
Nov 18 14:38:48 <kslater> It would be interesting to see an app that details what sats the GPS is locked onto
Nov 18 14:39:03 <languish> i've had manufacturers do some really nice stuff for me in odd situations
Nov 18 14:39:11 <kslater> My G1 seems to vary in its ability to lock onto gps
Nov 18 14:39:18 <languish> orci, <morrildl> vol: So you have to 1) wait to get a signal lock on 4 different satellites, 2) wait for them each to broadcast their ephemeris data, 3) do the GPS calculation
Nov 18 14:39:27 <Leeds> Disconnect: there was discussion about different 3G standards, and if a US G1 would work on 3G elsewhere... I normally use EDGE/GPRS, but I have a 3G SIM here which is probably inactive
Nov 18 14:39:33 <kslater> sometimes really quick even in a fast moving car. sometimes really slow, standing outside.
Nov 18 14:39:36 <languish> <morrildl> if it's cloudy or if you don't have line-of-sight to 4 satellites (e.g. in the mountains or in Manhattan) then 1) can take a long time just by itself.
Nov 18 14:39:55 <languish> morrildl> Then if by dumb luck you tune in just after the start of the ephemeris sequence, you have to wait a whole cycle for it to start over again
Nov 18 14:39:56 <Leeds> Disconnect: so I took the phone down to try the (probably inactive) 3G SIM, which didn't boot... put back my active 2G SIM, which didn't boot...
Nov 18 14:40:11 <languish> i think he said that "cycle" took about 12.5 minutes
Nov 18 14:40:12 <Leeds> Disconnect: but I think it's just co-incidence, to be honest
Nov 18 14:40:23 <Disconnect> hmm. that shouldn't have affected anything. but i'd take it to the store and pitch a fit.
Nov 18 14:41:21 <orci> I felt like the gps is a bit worse than the gps on iphone. I am not sure if the problem is the hardware or the software because google maps locator seem to work better
Nov 18 14:41:22 <languish> and hope the store owner/rep isn't in here now. :)
Nov 18 14:41:41 <Leeds> extremely unlikely...
Nov 18 14:41:54 <Leeds> but I also really don't have time to go this week, which is a fucker
Nov 18 14:42:14 <languish> well, try htc anyway, just fro the heck of it. worst they can say is no
Nov 18 14:42:37 <languish> the link i gave you was their HK contact
Nov 18 14:42:42 <Leeds> yeah, thanks
Nov 18 14:42:44 <Disconnect> orci: my experience (comparing to when i had a 1st gen iphone) is that acquisition is similar to 1999 devices, but once it finds a hit if you can keep it up its pretty good. and it can get a hit - given time - in more adversarial positions than my coworker's 3g (farther from the window basically)
Nov 18 14:43:06 <Leeds> what I'm really looking for is "how to flash your G1 from the bootloader"
Nov 18 14:43:46 <languish> yeah, they don't wanna give us that one.  hence my htc suggestion.. because it's their key in the bootloader
Nov 18 14:44:22 <Leeds> yeah...
Nov 18 14:44:46 <Leeds> my other emergency possibility is a passing acquaintance with a hardware-type droid
Nov 18 14:45:02 <Leeds> except he isn't online at the moment
Nov 18 14:45:15 <skbohra> does any body has a http://people.openmoko.org/sean_mcneil/androidfs.jffs2
Nov 18 14:45:20 <tauno> orci, does the iphone have aGPS? morrildl said yesterday that the g1 does not have aGPS but just plain ol' GPS..
Nov 18 14:45:21 <skbohra> copy of it
Nov 18 14:45:36 <skbohra> seems like they have removed it
Nov 18 14:45:57 <languish> from what I gather, T-mobile has to enable it on the entwork side
Nov 18 14:45:57 <skbohra> if anybody down-loaded it
Nov 18 14:45:59 <orci> may it be different when an apllication abc finds the location or google maps finds the location?
Nov 18 14:46:10 <Leeds> I thought there was no agps, but I could be wrong
Nov 18 14:46:16 <tauno> orci, nope AFAIK
Nov 18 14:46:18 <languish> aGPS isn't enabled on t-mobiles network yet
Nov 18 14:46:19 <orci> tauno, yes ihone has an assist gps
Nov 18 14:46:44 <tauno> languish, aGPS has nothing to do with the network that you use
Nov 18 14:46:44 <orci> tauno, g1 also has an asst gps
Nov 18 14:46:47 <Blice> Can I write apps in python for Android or does it have to be Java?
Nov 18 14:47:01 <languish> tauno, yes, it seems it does
Nov 18 14:47:14 <Leeds> Blice: just java, for now at least
Nov 18 14:47:16 <tauno> orci, no g1 hasn't (if you believe morrildl :) )
Nov 18 14:47:22 <Blice> Aw :[
Nov 18 14:47:44 <orci> tauno, agps is what when you enable "use network to find location" thing I would say
Nov 18 14:47:47 <Blice> I wonder if anyone's written a python interpreter in java...
Nov 18 14:48:23 <orci> tauno, I am sure iphone has agps though
Nov 18 14:48:38 <Leeds> no, that's not agps
Nov 18 14:48:49 <Leeds> Blice: yes, it's called jython, and no, it doesn't fit dalvik very well
Nov 18 14:49:03 <tauno> languish, aGPS means just that the phone asks for the ephemeris data from a central server - my nokia uses for example supl.nokia.com.. it has nothing to do with the network that you use :)
Nov 18 14:49:36 <Leeds> I'm interested to see that the bootloader *is* attempting to load some image, because it says it can't find it... what that image might be and where it's looking, I have no idea
Nov 18 14:49:56 <Leeds> tauno: I think it might also mean that the cells can provide extra information to the device
Nov 18 14:50:24 <orci> how does the compas app work? does it need gps?
Nov 18 14:50:28 <Disconnect> languish: it frequently finds me 8 or so miles from my house, on a giant tower by the highway. if thats not agps, what is it?
Nov 18 14:50:52 <orci> by the way that bubble application is very cool
Nov 18 14:51:20 <vol> Yeah
Nov 18 14:51:22 <tauno> Leeds nope.. that's not the point of aGPS (yes, poeple confuse network assisted GPS with aGPS and these terms are interchanged frequently)
Nov 18 14:51:26 <vol> the bubble app is what blows my mind absolutely
Nov 18 14:51:31 <vol> my phone
Nov 18 14:51:32 <vol> is a level
Nov 18 14:51:35 <vol> mind blown.
Nov 18 14:51:45 <KNY> it should smooth the data, but yeah
Nov 18 14:51:48 <tauno> orci, no, compas does not use gps
Nov 18 14:51:51 <Disconnect> vol: mine is wildly out of calibration. 5-10 degrees ('wildly' for a bubble level not wildly for a phone :) ..)
Nov 18 14:51:54 <KNY> it jumps between 0 and 1 :)
Nov 18 14:52:04 <orci> tauno, that is also mind blowing for me at least
Nov 18 14:52:05 <vol> Disconnect: I haven't tried using it for anything important yet.
Nov 18 14:52:08 <vol> Just to show it off.
Nov 18 14:52:15 <vol> "Hay guys my phone has a bubble level!"
Nov 18 14:52:17 <KNY> Disconnect, you can calibrate it...
Nov 18 14:52:23 <orci> vol, I think mine needs some adjustments though
Nov 18 14:52:27 <vol> orci: the compass uses a compass : )
Nov 18 14:52:53 <orci> vol, a digital compass? how would that work?
Nov 18 14:53:09 <orci> I must be an old fart already at my age
Nov 18 14:53:11 <Leeds> I thought there was a compass built-in?
Nov 18 14:53:15 <KNY> there is
Nov 18 14:53:16 <vol> orci: there's a built in compass
Nov 18 14:53:23 <vol> it's... a compass.
Nov 18 14:53:31 <languish> <Disconnect> languish: it frequently finds me 8 or so miles from my house, on a giant tower by the highway. if thats not agps, what is it?
Nov 18 14:53:32 * KNY 's mind is blown
Nov 18 14:53:32 <vol> it works the same way as one you hold in your hand (I assume?)
Nov 18 14:53:35 <languish> <tauno> Leeds nope.. that's not the point of aGPS (yes, poeple confuse network assisted GPS with aGPS and these terms are interchanged frequently)
Nov 18 14:53:43 <languish> that's your answer
Nov 18 14:53:51 <languish> also check the wikipedia artcile on agps
Nov 18 14:53:55 <languish> *article
Nov 18 14:54:32 <vol> So, anyone who has done debugging with android, have you ever tried integrating with Eclipse CDT, or any other visual tools? Or do you just use gdb from the command line?
Nov 18 14:55:18 <tauno> languish, that was to me?
Nov 18 14:55:56 <tauno> languish, the wikipedia article on agps is wrong :)
Nov 18 14:57:12 <Leeds> tauno: and your source is...?
Nov 18 14:57:22 <tauno> (who the hell was it here who I had the exact same discussion two weeks ago?)
Nov 18 14:57:30 <KNY> vol, the eclipse debugger works just fine
Nov 18 14:57:49 <tauno> Leeds, gimme a sec
Nov 18 14:58:06 <vol> KNY: for arm-eabi-gdb? I haven't tried it yet, wanted to know if someone else had first. If it works, that's very encouraging.
Nov 18 14:58:34 <KNY> vol, oh, I thought you meant for application debugging. Nevermind :)
Nov 18 14:58:38 <vol> ... yeah
Nov 18 14:58:45 <vol> sorry, wasn't specific : )
Nov 18 14:59:12 <vol> So, anyone who has done C library debugging with android, have you tried integrating arm-eabi-gdb with Eclipse CDT, or any other visual tools? Or do you all just use arm-eabi-gdb from the command line?
Nov 18 14:59:56 <languish> GPS/aGPS convo: here's a pastebin of the log from the convo w/morrildl  http://pastebin.com/d742fa880
Nov 18 15:00:12 <languish> he explains the G1's GPS capabilities somewhat
Nov 18 15:00:46 <languish> tauno> languish, the wikipedia article on agps is wrong :)   <- so fix it.
Nov 18 15:03:01 <tauno> languish, you don't happen to have logs for this channel going back a month or tow?
Nov 18 15:03:24 <orci> so when there is a circle around my location, that does not mean that I was helped by agps mechanism, so what does it mean?
Nov 18 15:03:55 <languish> tauno no
Nov 18 15:04:03 <tauno> orci, that's cell ID based location
Nov 18 15:04:03 <vol> orci: cell tower location
Nov 18 15:04:09 <languish> tauno that convo was still in my buffer
Nov 18 15:04:14 <vol> the dot in the center is the cell tower, and the shaded circle is where you COULD be
Nov 18 15:04:14 <languish> it was yesterday
Nov 18 15:04:23 <jbq> Actually, there's also a circle in GPS, but if you can see enough satellites it's very very very small.
Nov 18 15:04:32 <vol> :o
Nov 18 15:04:40 <vol> I've never actually seen that, but i don't think I zoomed in close enough either
Nov 18 15:04:44 <tauno> languish, yes I know.. but there was a guy here (don't remmeber who) who I had the same chat that we currently have.. only he was me and I was you :P
Nov 18 15:04:57 <languish> :)
Nov 18 15:05:12 <orci> so what the hell is agps? :)
Nov 18 15:05:33 <jbq> anyway, when you have a GPS-based location, the GPS icon in the notification bar stops flashing.
Nov 18 15:05:43 <languish> tauno, another issue is.. how GPS or agps or tower ID or tower triangulation is or is not enabled and functionaing on the G1 itself, as compared to anything else
Nov 18 15:06:17 <tauno> orci the "correct"  answer is that it's a "faster lock" GPS (eg downloading ephemeris data from netowrk and calculating your poistion faster thanks to that) :)
Nov 18 15:06:22 <Leeds> okay, going to leave my G1 charging and turned off overnight, then all will be good in the morning... I believe, I BELIEVE!  g'night all
Nov 18 15:06:39 <orci> tauno, so it is fgps :)
Nov 18 15:06:39 <languish> 'night leeds, g'luck
Nov 18 15:06:43 <jbq> If you want it to be really off, take the battery out.
Nov 18 15:07:02 <vol> wrap it in tin foil
Nov 18 15:07:06 <languish> he's charging it up
Nov 18 15:07:12 <languish> while off
Nov 18 15:07:13 <Leeds> jbq: I'm not sure if I want it to be off or on!
Nov 18 15:07:27 <tauno> orci, there are also 10+n other definitions of aGPS.. ranging from cell id base dlocation to cell ID + base station + operator servers + assistance servers + some voodo magi + GPS definitions
Nov 18 15:07:30 <Leeds> oops, he left again
Nov 18 15:08:28 <orci> did you guys ever notice/feel like that the gps is not turned on although settings claims to do so?
Nov 18 15:08:35 <orci> sometimes of couse
Nov 18 15:08:36 <tauno> languish, if you believe morrildl, then on the G1 you have GPS and you have cell ID based location (not triangulation)
Nov 18 15:08:47 <languish> tauno, yep
Nov 18 15:09:04 <languish> tauno, though it would be nice to get confirmation
Nov 18 15:09:11 <orci> who is morrild? hald god?
Nov 18 15:09:15 <orci> half
Nov 18 15:09:17 <bert0> What is the best place to buy laptop batteries?
Nov 18 15:09:22 <languish> orci, he's a google dude
Nov 18 15:09:22 <Leeds> jbq: if you have any idea of a period *off* or a period *charging* is more likely to revive my phone, please spill :-)
Nov 18 15:09:31 <orci> ah ok
Nov 18 15:09:51 <vol> half man half bear half pig
Nov 18 15:10:21 <Leeds> incidentally, a hald god would be someone who knew a *lot* about the hardware on a system...
Nov 18 15:10:22 <Leeds> gone now
Nov 18 15:10:51 <languish> heh
Nov 18 15:10:54 <orci> my restaurant finder and gas station finder were showing me the same stupid location where once I had been then I rebooted the system and then they began showing me the right location
Nov 18 15:11:17 <orci> before rebooting i tried turning the on gps to off then to on that did not help
Nov 18 15:11:33 <orci> although it looked like in went off and on
Nov 18 15:11:54 <languish> hopefully gps functionality will be part of the impovements coming up
Nov 18 15:12:02 <languish> *improvements
Nov 18 15:12:05 <orci> is it possible to calibrate accelerator or bubble application?
Nov 18 15:12:15 <KNY> orci, yes. hit Menu
Nov 18 15:12:21 <orci> languish, that is really good to hear
Nov 18 15:12:31 <languish> orci, i said hopefully
Nov 18 15:13:04 <orci> languish, still somewhat good :)
Nov 18 15:13:07 <languish> heh
Nov 18 15:13:11 <orci> KNY, OK thanks
Nov 18 15:13:23 <orci> KNY, did I calibrate accelerator or bubble app?
Nov 18 15:13:43 <KNY> bubble app
Nov 18 15:15:17 <KNY> does anyone know how to get rid of the Outline pane in eclipse?
Nov 18 15:15:24 <KNY> I keep closing it but it keeps coming back
Nov 18 15:15:30 <KNY> it's like herpes
Nov 18 15:18:32 <orci> heh guys this pocket computer is the best toy I have got for a loong time since I got my LEGOs as a present
Nov 18 15:22:19 <tauno> [16:33] <tauno> a silly question - how do I get the cursor position in a EditText?
Nov 18 15:24:29 <unix_lappy> RyeBrye: you made gizmodo... ;-)
Nov 18 15:25:40 <tauno> come on.. it can't be that hard. someone has to know it? ;)
Nov 18 15:26:41 <KNY> tauno, you mean like, if it's on the second letter?
Nov 18 15:26:54 <tauno> http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers/browse_thread/thread/d1f2296bbb2f09ad/2a30e40caf025ea4?show_docid=2a30e40caf025ea4
Nov 18 15:26:55 <tauno> KNY, yes
Nov 18 15:28:20 <KNY> tauno, interesting. If you find out, let me know?
Nov 18 15:29:09 <tauno> it like the most basic thing that you could to to an input box (eg set/get cursor position) other than setting and getting the actual text value of the input :)
Nov 18 15:29:46 <tauno> and I can't find it..I'm blind or stupid (or both) I guess :/
Nov 18 15:30:58 <KNY> tauno, EditText uses Selection, could look into that
Nov 18 15:32:22 <tauno> I'm looking at getSelectionStart and end atm..
Nov 18 15:32:22 <KNY> tauno, the one in frameworks/base/core/java/android/text seems more relevant
Nov 18 15:32:23 <KNY> yeah
Nov 18 15:34:19 <tauno> KNY, yes, that did the trick :)
Nov 18 15:34:20 <languish> 'lo morrildl
Nov 18 15:34:32 <KNY> tauno, glad to hear it
Nov 18 15:34:51 <languish> you were indirectly topic of convo related to GPS/aGPS again today
Nov 18 15:35:00 <KNY> yeah, morrildl has some stalkers in here
Nov 18 15:35:26 <wastrel> stalkers eh
Nov 18 15:35:31 <skbohra> hi everybody
Nov 18 15:35:56 <skbohra> http://perpetual-notion.blogspot.com/search/label/FreeRunner
Nov 18 15:35:56 <morrildl> heh
Nov 18 15:36:14 <skbohra> there is a diff
Nov 18 15:36:29 <skbohra> I am not getting where to apply this
Nov 18 15:38:13 <skbohra> Is it the most stupid question ever asked here> :)
Nov 18 15:38:39 <tauno> skbohra, you think you can beat me that easily? :)
Nov 18 15:39:09 <languish> no, it's not a stupid question, just an uneducated one. big difference
Nov 18 15:39:48 <skbohra> languish: I believe its a patch for android kernel
Nov 18 15:40:12 * unix_lappy still has trouble understanding the reason for porting over to the free runner.
Nov 18 15:40:39 <languish> skbohra, that person's working on porting android to another device
Nov 18 15:40:57 <skbohra> same is me
Nov 18 15:41:04 * skbohra wishes to do that one day :)
Nov 18 15:41:12 <tauno> skbohra, "Please, I don't recommend even trying to apply the diff as a patch - it will do nothing and may even inflict pain on some remote small kitten... and you wouldn't want that,"
Nov 18 15:41:13 <languish> to what device?
Nov 18 15:41:24 <skbohra> neo freerunner
Nov 18 15:41:41 <languish> ah
Nov 18 15:41:42 <languish> well, good luck :)
Nov 18 15:41:45 * jbq is happy to see android being ported to the openmoko phones.
Nov 18 15:41:49 <skbohra> its a long way ahead
Nov 18 15:42:07 <vol> hooray, android on openmoko
Nov 18 15:42:08 <vol> they'll have an OS that works
Nov 18 15:42:25 <Blice> lol... Harsh...
Nov 18 15:42:47 <Blice> They did a pretty good job with their OS, come on. Give them some slack, that's not an easy task :[
Nov 18 15:42:47 <skbohra> so is that diff of any use to me
Nov 18 15:42:48 * jbq would like the relevant patches to go beyond "one-time hacks" and to eventually make their way back to the android code.
Nov 18 15:43:01 <morrildl> jbq++
Nov 18 15:43:45 <morrildl> There are a bunch of patches that were submitted to gerrit that we are looking at
Nov 18 15:44:15 <morrildl> But they are essentially just submissions of the "porter's frenzy", and aren't cleanly integrated with the build system and so on
Nov 18 15:44:46 <morrildl> That's a process of course, and it's early days
Nov 18 15:45:04 <skbohra> when I complied android source code, it doesn't give me a kernel img  :(
Nov 18 15:45:11 <jbq> Yes. We'll get there.
Nov 18 15:45:35 <jbq> skbohra: the kernel has to be built separately, it's not integrate with the rest of the android build system.
Nov 18 15:45:58 <jbq> s/integrate/integrated/
Nov 18 15:45:58 <infobot> jbq meant: skbohra: the kernel has to be built separately, it's not integrated with the rest of the android build system.
Nov 18 15:47:12 <skbohra> jbq: http://honeypod.blogspot.com/2007/12/compile-android-kernel-from-source.html  is this tutorial pointing the right way?
Nov 18 15:48:18 <jbq> I'm not an expert, but that looks like old instructions from "back then" when android hadn't been open-sourced yet.
Nov 18 15:49:55 <jbq> You might get it to work along those lines, of course (by adapting the relevant parts), but it'd be better if you could know the "preferred" way to do that. I honestly wouldn't know where to look, other that reading the archives of android-kernel and android-porting.
Nov 18 16:07:54 <bert0> anyone else in here had the non-pleasure of dealing with Verizon Online?
Nov 18 16:08:04 <vol> ha
Nov 18 16:08:25 <bert0> not funny.  They billed me and I never recieved service in any form
Nov 18 16:08:32 <bert0> I try to call them and they transfer me to a number that is no longer in service
Nov 18 16:08:53 <languish> how is this relevant to android?
Nov 18 16:09:01 <bert0> </rant>
Nov 18 16:09:12 <vol> that's not that bad
Nov 18 16:09:12 <languish> ah :)
Nov 18 16:09:12 <vol> when I try to call 611 on my phone
Nov 18 16:09:14 <vol> and finally get on the line for support
Nov 18 16:09:22 <vol> it just sends me back to the start of calling 611
Nov 18 16:09:35 <vol> so I have to use another phone to call for support :D
Nov 18 16:09:35 * vol should do something about that at some point
Nov 18 16:10:35 <bert0> I do find it hard to press numbers mid-call for their menus though...why doesn't the keypad stay up during calls?
Nov 18 16:11:13 <vol> because then you'd dial with your earlobe
Nov 18 16:11:53 <wastrel> i've done that
Nov 18 16:12:30 <wastrel> this phone needs a lot of work i tell you what :]
Nov 18 16:12:43 <bert0> ok well maybe the screen could stay on so I don't have to unlock?
Nov 18 16:13:31 <offby1> bert0: ah fell yo' pain
Nov 18 16:13:32 <offby1> feel
Nov 18 16:13:50 <offby1> maybe open the keyboard?  I assume the digit keys would work
Nov 18 16:14:01 <joel> hi all
Nov 18 16:14:17 <joel> Got an question about dbus.
Nov 18 16:14:28 <joel> As far as I know, Bluez use DBus. Are there other framework component in android using DBus except Bluez?
Nov 18 16:15:07 <Disconnect> offby1: wow, yah. cuz every caller on a conf call wants to hear sssshhhWHACK when you go to push # for mute :) and i doubt vm systems would appreciate it either. "press 1 for english." "<ssssshhhWHACK!> beeep <sshWHACK>" "you have selected: esperanto."
Nov 18 16:16:52 <Disconnect> actually, doesn't opening the kb turn on speakerphone automatically?
Nov 18 16:17:18 <offby1> dunno
Nov 18 16:17:25 <offby1> it was just an idea.  No need to flame
Nov 18 16:17:31 <wastrel> esperanto voice menus would be hilarious
Nov 18 16:17:49 * Disconnect thought about "you have selected: latin" but..
Nov 18 16:17:59 <wastrel> the solution would be to get a bluetooth headset
Nov 18 16:18:04 <wastrel> which i would do if they were useful for anything else
Nov 18 16:18:14 <wastrel> but they're not so i'll wait
Nov 18 16:27:14 <pi-meson> can android apps make arbitrary connections to IPs/ports?
Nov 18 16:27:29 <jbq> pi-meson: yes, as long as they have permission to access the internet.
Nov 18 16:28:23 <pi-meson> do the android devices generally do the right thing if they can get wifi in an environment? like, is there any provision for seamless wifi-phone-data handoff?
Nov 18 16:29:10 <jbq> pi-meson: for some definition of "seamless", yes.
Nov 18 16:29:15 <vol> You will be informed about wifi in the area, but you have to specify that you want to use it (unless it's a saved AP)
Nov 18 16:29:16 <jbq> Don't expect to keep your connections connected.
Nov 18 16:29:35 <pi-meson> right, the IP will likely change and whatnot
Nov 18 16:30:22 <jbq> There are APIs (ConnectionManager or ConnectivityManager, I can never remember) that allow to query the state of the connections and to be notified when the state changes.
Nov 18 16:33:15 <pi-meson> I'm basically considering using a gphone as a blinged-out remote control for my data acquisition hardware in lab
Nov 18 16:33:29 <pi-meson> and we're mostly in a wifi-rich, cell-phone-poor environment
Nov 18 16:33:44 <vol> don't say "gphone" or certain angry channel members will get enraged
Nov 18 16:33:44 <Disconnect> bad news for connections like that: 2 mins after the screen goes blank, it turns off wifi (even if its in use, or at least thats been my xp)
Nov 18 16:33:44 <vol> it's an HTC G1 :)
Nov 18 16:33:46 <pi-meson> haha, my apologies :)
Nov 18 16:33:57 <Disconnect> vol: htc dream, tmobile g1.
Nov 18 16:34:10 <vol> Disconnect: Microsoft Netscape
Nov 18 16:34:20 <pi-meson> no, you're totally correct, I should not be so sloppy
Nov 18 16:34:41 <vol> so yeah G1
Nov 18 16:34:48 <vol> I haven't noticed this wifi issue, though I'll try it when I have connectbot up and running
Nov 18 16:35:01 <vol> is this possibly tied into "keep screen alive" ?
Nov 18 16:35:06 <Disconnect> if the screen is on, it doesn't time out
Nov 18 16:35:23 <Disconnect> it can lose connections for any of a dozen other reasons (including sheer meanness) but not for that :)
Nov 18 16:36:05 <pi-meson> right, it might be worthwhile to think about trying to do this in a manner that didn't depend on persistent connections
Nov 18 16:37:22 <Disconnect> or just be ready to catch dropped connections cleanly. although wifi association seems hit or miss in some (many? or i'm unlucky) environments
Nov 18 16:37:43 <vol> pi-meson: You might want to limit it to reasonably stateless TCP connections, like HTTP 1.0
Nov 18 16:37:44 <Disconnect> i should say automatic association. usually 1 or 2 manual connection attempts (open the list, click on the wlan) will work
Nov 18 16:40:16 * Disconnect is pretty sure its phase-of-the-moon problems most of the time, as superficially-identical environments (my desk, at work, on battery, locked for an hour or so) sometimes works, sometimes not..
Nov 18 16:40:49 <Disconnect> but there are some straight bugs (moving from AP to AP at home - something that my other mobile devices are good at and the macbook is ok at - fails 100% of the time)
Nov 18 17:05:45 <BluesLee> some freerunner user here?
Nov 18 17:10:30 <donomo> BluesLee: try #openmoko
Nov 18 17:11:16 <BluesLee> donomo: did that
Nov 18 17:11:41 <donomo> BluesLee: i have a freerunner. havent put android on it. have you?
Nov 18 17:12:07 <BluesLee> yes i did
Nov 18 17:12:28 <BluesLee> there are some mp3 license problems so sean removed the images
Nov 18 17:15:40 <BluesLee> donomo: android looks good, user friendly
Nov 18 17:16:21 <BluesLee> donomo: i think it will be ready within this year on the freerunner
Nov 18 17:17:09 <donomo> BluesLee: great because the openmoko images are unusable for me
Nov 18 17:18:25 <BluesLee> donomo: try qtextended or even better shr
Nov 18 17:30:19 <d0nets> anyone have an svn link to jasta's source for five?
Nov 18 17:31:36 <Damm> it's on five.googlecode.com
Nov 18 17:32:41 <d0nets> gotcha thanks
Nov 18 17:35:01 <RyeBrye> unix_lappy RyeBrye: you made gizmodo... ;-)  <-- Cool... Although what's really funny is that I actually sent a "tip" into engadget about it when I first posted the blog but apparently Gizmodo is more 'with it' in recognizing cool stuff :)
Nov 18 17:36:15 <jeld> RyeBrye, congratz :)
Nov 18 17:40:47 <donomo> RyeBrye: is your story 'Flash 10 on the G1'?
Nov 18 17:41:01 <Disconnect> donomo: tinyurl.com/g1multi
Nov 18 17:41:06 <tethridge> is there video of the flash 10 on the g1 demo?
Nov 18 17:41:14 <donomo> tethridge: yes though i havent watched it myself
Nov 18 17:41:17 <donomo> Disconnect: thx
Nov 18 17:41:18 <tethridge> i couldn't find any video
Nov 18 17:41:51 <obra> Is there a public release date for beta1?
Nov 18 17:42:06 <donomo> tethridge: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ghIGj9r3_vc
Nov 18 17:42:18 <RyeBrye> donomo - no, the multitouch one
Nov 18 17:42:34 <donomo> RyeBrye: ok, i saw that one yesterday. i was really excited for a moment.
Nov 18 17:42:56 <unix_lappy> RyeBrye: engadget is more of a gadget publication, or at least it thinks of itself as more of one.
Nov 18 17:43:00 <RyeBrye> Oh, you thought itw as in the API :)
Nov 18 17:43:09 <unix_lappy> gizmodo is more of a gadget blagh, gawker in general is more relaxed about stuff.
Nov 18 17:43:48 <unix_lappy> no, there is no framework that I know of.
Nov 18 17:43:49 <RyeBrye> I've started looking into what it would take to put multi-touch into Android properly
Nov 18 17:44:00 <RyeBrye> It's not trivial, to say the least
Nov 18 17:44:23 <RyeBrye> but given enough time and enough monkeys, it can obviously be done
Nov 18 17:45:12 <unix_lappy> RyeBrye: it bothers me that HTC didnt give the Android Team the heads up...hey, it might be cool to have a multitouch framework on the roadmap, because we recently got some killer deals.
Nov 18 17:45:33 <RyeBrye> Yes, I know
Nov 18 17:45:59 * Disconnect suspects the android team knew/knows its multitouch capable. hence the patents quote from way back when.
Nov 18 17:46:26 <RyeBrye> unix_lappy - HTC should have said "well, even if your OS will only use single touch for now - we found that synaptics price on a multitouch capable screen is no cheaper than one that isn't - so it's going to have a multi screen in the specs"
Nov 18 17:46:30 <Disconnect> i haven't been able to find even a hint of non-EGR-capable capacitance touchscreens from synaptics.. so..
Nov 18 17:46:37 <jbq> The feature list for Android 1.0 got frozen far before HTC could have known about that. And that's not counting the lead time that'd be necessary to propagate it through the driver to the framework, the view system and the apps.
Nov 18 17:46:50 <RyeBrye> jqb - fair enough
Nov 18 17:47:25 <RyeBrye> s/jqb/jbq/
Nov 18 17:47:25 <infobot> RyeBrye meant: jbq - fair enough
Nov 18 17:47:29 <Disconnect> jbq: sure, i'm not saying it should have been supported or anything. (whether or not it should have been on the 1.0 roadmap is a different issue :) ..)
Nov 18 17:47:29 <Disconnect> timewise i mean
Nov 18 17:47:34 <unix_lappy> what Disconnect said.
Nov 18 17:48:00 <RyeBrye> But the spec of the HTC being a single-touch screen seems like it will limit the G1 to officially only being a single-touch device, even when the Android multitouch does get built
Nov 18 17:48:02 <andyross> RyeBrye: was it you that was asking about streaming audio the other day?  I got a chance to play with AudioTrack last night, and indeed, it seems to work correctly the way I expected.
Nov 18 17:48:08 <RyeBrye> andyross - that's cool
Nov 18 17:49:31 <RyeBrye> andyross - yes, I was looking into that the other day and I gave up
Nov 18 17:49:39 <kRutOn> Are the patents for multitouch not an issue now
Nov 18 17:49:39 <kRutOn> ?
Nov 18 17:50:05 <RyeBrye> Who knows
Nov 18 17:50:05 <Disconnect> kRutOn: not an issue yet more likely - until they are approved they are just potential disasters
Nov 18 17:50:15 <Disconnect> the big ones (pinch for relative zoom in/out) are likely to be rejected, but some of the others might be ok.
Nov 18 17:50:20 <Disconnect> (but then again, this is the us patent system. so 'likely' is a relative term)
Nov 18 17:50:39 <RyeBrye> Yeah, didn't MS effectively patent the "page up" / "page down" key recently?
Nov 18 17:51:27 <RyeBrye> andyross - so the AudioTrack will just fill a buffer for you in realtime of uncompressed audio from the mic?
Nov 18 17:51:51 <andyross> Other way around: you set it up with a callback that gets invoked automatically when the shared buffer needs to be filled.  Simple C++ rig: http://pastebin.ca/1260555
Nov 18 17:51:52 <RyeBrye> Ahh, gotcha
Nov 18 17:52:42 <andyross> Actually there's a lower level API where you can do the buffer acquire/release yourself, but the callback is just that wrapped in a separate thread (which is probably the right way to go for low-latency audio)
Nov 18 17:53:10 <RyeBrye> cool. I will definitely try to use this later
Nov 18 17:53:27 <andyross> And you may want to nice the CPU-bound threads too, although I had this running alongside my transform-limited OpenGL stuff without any skips.
Nov 18 17:54:11 <RyeBrye> andyross - did you get to look around at any of the audio routing stuff at all? I.e. can you route audio playback to the phone? (for music on hold type apps or a vocodor... etc.)
Nov 18 17:54:48 <cmonex> RyeBrye
Nov 18 17:54:48 <cmonex> look in other channel =)
Nov 18 17:55:32 <andyross> Just barely, in the context of seeing what would be needed to get A2DP working for generic output.  And AFAICT most of the routing decisions are hard-wired.  There's not a lot of pluggability in the API.
Nov 18 17:55:51 <andyross> Other channel?
Nov 18 17:56:04 <kRutOn>  the communication channel on the ethereal plane
Nov 18 17:58:25 <cmonex> kRutOn is correct.
Nov 18 18:03:32 <languish> so just push blue packets momentarily through a hell dimension instead, like nighcrawler.
Nov 18 18:04:02 <languish> +t
Nov 18 18:04:40 <P1ro> anyone know wich wireless chipset the G1 have ?
Nov 18 18:08:45 <cmonex> ttuttle you there?
Nov 18 18:08:54 <ttuttle> cmonex: yeah
Nov 18 18:09:24 <ttuttle> cmonex: hat's up?
Nov 18 18:09:24 <ttuttle> *what's
Nov 18 18:10:19 <cmonex> ttuttle when you said your radio was unlocked what did you mean?
Nov 18 18:15:35 <d0nets> anyone have a link to the guide for installing jasta's five-alpha?
Nov 18 18:15:44 <d0nets> i cant find it on google
Nov 18 18:15:45 <d0nets> wait lemme try with quotes
Nov 18 18:15:45 <michaelnovakjr> d0nets: its in the source :)
Nov 18 18:15:49 <michaelnovakjr> its called INSTALL :)
Nov 18 18:15:53 <d0nets> i see
Nov 18 18:16:03 <d0nets> i think i ran into that last time
Nov 18 18:16:04 <d0nets> thanks
Nov 18 18:16:19 <michaelnovakjr> np
Nov 18 18:16:26 <jasta> hey mike
Nov 18 18:16:31 <michaelnovakjr> hy
Nov 18 18:23:50 <cmonex> ttuttle: nevermind, can just search the channel logs for what you said =)
Nov 18 18:26:14 <romainguy_> cmonex: he meant that his phone is not sim-locked
Nov 18 18:26:50 <cmonex> that's not a big feat
Nov 18 18:26:51 <cmonex> to achieve
Nov 18 18:26:57 <cmonex> iirc unlock codes are like 10GBP
Nov 18 18:27:12 <romainguy_> except he didn't use an unlock code
Nov 18 18:27:12 <cmonex> oh well
Nov 18 18:27:13 <cmonex> yeah, but
Nov 18 18:27:13 <romainguy_> his phone has always been unlocked
Nov 18 18:27:18 <romainguy_> he can also flash the firmware
Nov 18 18:27:18 <cmonex> there is a much more interesting mode
Nov 18 18:27:32 <cmonex> when the radio allows access to all commands
Nov 18 18:27:46 <cmonex> (htc's version of the qc radio I mean)
Nov 18 18:28:30 <cmonex> so I wondered if eng devices (such as ttuttle's) had that too
Nov 18 18:28:39 <romainguy_> no idea
Nov 18 18:29:03 <cmonex> ok, just thinking aloud =)
Nov 18 18:29:10 <jasta> romainguy_: are the engineering builds physically the same as the G1, just with a different firmware?
Nov 18 18:29:34 <romainguy_> the phones are the same yes
Nov 18 18:29:46 * DarkriftX  steals one of romainguy's 10 g1's
Nov 18 18:29:59 <cmonex> so. let's dump the fw off them
Nov 18 18:30:44 <romainguy_> you still won't have the proper bootloader
Nov 18 18:30:59 <cmonex> fw dump would include bootloader dump
Nov 18 18:35:08 <ttuttle> cmonex: oh...
Nov 18 18:35:22 <ttuttle> cmonex: so, basically, the radio half of the MSM7201A has, like most cell phone radios, a SIM lock.
Nov 18 18:35:58 <ttuttle> cmonex: Mine is unlocked, so it will accept any SIM.  Most are locked, so they will only take T-Mobile SIMs.
Nov 18 18:35:59 <ttuttle> cmonex: This is *not* fixable by simply flashing the firmware.
Nov 18 18:36:04 <ttuttle> cmonex: It requires actually entering an unlock code.
Nov 18 18:37:22 <cmonex> ttuttle, thanks for the education =)
Nov 18 18:37:31 <jasta> something which t-mobile is likely to hand out freely
Nov 18 18:37:35 <cmonex> of course the unlock code is ALWAYS in an extra "secure" area
Nov 18 18:37:39 <cmonex> or it would be pointless to have it
Nov 18 18:37:52 <cmonex> jasta: yes they do it if you ask, for umm, like 7 usd?
Nov 18 18:37:52 <cmonex> iirc
Nov 18 18:38:05 <jasta> they charge?  i doubt that.  no other mobile carrier in the US charges for this.
Nov 18 18:38:09 <cmonex> oh, well, someone said that
Nov 18 18:39:07 <jasta> i recently even had AT&T unlock one of my older phones by just claiming i was visiting europe
Nov 18 18:39:08 <Disconnect> cmonex: they do it free
Nov 18 18:39:11 <Disconnect> i got mine done 2 weeks or so after it arrived.
Nov 18 18:39:28 <Disconnect> said i might be going to london for business in a week.
Nov 18 18:39:29 <cmonex> nice
Nov 18 18:39:29 <dd94300> yes t-mobile is giving unlock code for free upon request
Nov 18 18:39:37 <cmonex> weird
Nov 18 18:39:45 <cmonex> jesusfreke said it cost him money
Nov 18 18:39:50 <cmonex> and others said the same too
Nov 18 18:39:54 <Disconnect> he prolly walked in somewhere and got ripped of. :) i just called 611 and asked.
Nov 18 18:39:54 <cmonex> maybe they started to be nice now ::P
Nov 18 18:39:55 <cmonex> oh
Nov 18 18:42:38 <jasta> have you guys seen this news about Fomalhaut b and d?
Nov 18 18:42:50 <jasta> thats really exciting
Nov 18 18:44:12 <skbohra> which
Nov 18 18:45:14 <jasta> that they just found visible light pictures confirming 3 planets orbiting fomalhaut
Nov 18 18:45:46 <Disconnect> jasta: thought it was IR
Nov 18 18:46:24 <jasta> well all the idiot news sites call it visible light, let me see if i can confirm from nasa themselves
Nov 18 18:47:23 <jasta> fomalhaut b was captured in visible light, c, and d are in infrared.
Nov 18 18:48:13 <Delvien> is zoom possible on the g1 camera?
Nov 18 18:48:49 <ttuttle> Delvien: not yet
Nov 18 18:49:25 <orci> hi, I see list of apps on websites, some of them are not on market, is there other ways of installing software on android?
Nov 18 18:49:26 <Delvien> kk :(
Nov 18 18:50:10 <Delvien> orci what site?
Nov 18 18:50:24 <orci> Delvien, http://www.networkworld.com/news/2008/090808-google-best-android-applications.html?ts
Nov 18 18:50:25 <Disconnect> jasta: yah just found that :)
Nov 18 18:50:44 <orci> Delvien, such as softrace
Nov 18 18:50:45 <orci> Delvien, there are more that are not on market
Nov 18 18:51:11 <Disconnect> orci: yah check out your manual
Nov 18 18:51:17 <orci> Disconnect, heh I was not aware there was a manual
Nov 18 18:53:23 <orci> Disconnect, you mean this one? http://www.engadget.com/photos/t-mobile-g1s-getting-started-manual/1057805/
Nov 18 18:53:47 <Disconnect> the one in the box with the phone
Nov 18 18:53:48 <jasta> Disconnect: fun stuff :)
Nov 18 18:54:17 <orci> Disconnect, I do not have any box or manual anymore
Nov 18 18:54:23 <orci> well nevermind
Nov 18 18:54:46 <jasta> orci: lol, that article you pasted says TuneWiki is open source
Nov 18 18:55:11 <orci> jasta, i was just looking at the names of apps
Nov 18 18:55:32 <jasta> i was just commenting about their poor journalistic integrity
Nov 18 18:55:32 <orci> stupid networkworld journal
Nov 18 18:56:56 <vol> So, anyone who has done C library debugging with android, have you tried integrating arm-eabi-gdb with Eclipse CDT, or any other visual tools? Or do you all just use arm-eabi-gdb from the command line?
Nov 18 19:00:31 <RyeBrye> "Flash Lite, which until now has largely stood in for Flash on handheld platforms, doesn’t pack anywhere near the punch of its full-fledged sibling, which is itself sluggish on the iPhone. The proposed new ARM-optimized Flash would use OpenGL ES 2.0-capable hardware and newer, faster processors to allow complex apps and advanced video to come to portable devices, without sacrificing speed and usability"
Nov 18 19:00:41 * ttuttle does not want Flash!
Nov 18 19:01:31 <RyeBrye> So... what is the flash that was demoed on the G1 - "Flash Lite" ? "Flash Normal" "Some-new-flash-that-is-neither-light-nor-normal-and-will-have-to-have-crap-custom-made-for-it?"
Nov 18 19:01:41 <RyeBrye> ttuttle - why don't you want flash?
Nov 18 19:01:47 <romainguy_> my understanding is that it was the normal Flash player
Nov 18 19:02:20 <romainguy_> (at least from what friends that were at Adobe MAX told me)
Nov 18 19:02:20 <RyeBrye> romainguy - I was hoping that was the case. I saw some article refer to it as "flash lite" - but they may have just been making asuptions
Nov 18 19:02:34 * RyeBrye should be at MAX right now - but forgot about it until it was too late :(
Nov 18 19:02:54 <vol> I'm just fine with flash, as long as there is a very explicit flashblock option
Nov 18 19:02:58 * romainguy_ should be at MAX right now but has work to do
Nov 18 19:02:59 <romainguy_> :)
Nov 18 19:03:02 <RyeBrye> Yeah, ditto to the "work to do" part
Nov 18 19:04:00 <Disconnect> i thoguht it was flash-normal. same as nokia tablets ahve.
Nov 18 19:05:42 <RyeBrye> Does flex stuff work on the nokia tablets?
Nov 18 19:05:44 <RyeBrye> I haven't tried
Nov 18 19:05:56 <romainguy_> if a recent Flash player works, it should
Nov 18 19:06:32 <RyeBrye> Cool. Flex developers around the world will rejoice if Android can play back Flex stuff
Nov 18 19:06:58 <romainguy_> that said when I see the sometimes poor performance of Flex on the desktop... :)
Nov 18 19:07:06 <RyeBrye> I would never develop on Flex if I was directly targeting a mobile device... but the fact that they might be able to get access to some stuff would be cool
Nov 18 19:07:32 <romainguy_> I'm much more excited about Flash Catalyst
Nov 18 19:07:33 <RyeBrye> Oh, yeah
Nov 18 19:07:45 <RyeBrye> That looks awesome
Nov 18 19:07:54 <RyeBrye> Now we need an mxml -> Android UI translator ;)
Nov 18 19:18:38 <raidfive> is it possible to create a global menu item that shows up for all activities ?
Nov 18 19:24:02 <herriojr> do permissions you set for your application not apply to broadcast receivers?
Nov 18 19:27:33 <herriojr> raidfive: I don't think so
Nov 18 19:27:51 <herriojr> you can't force anything of yours to show in other applications
Nov 18 19:28:07 <raidfive> yea I mainly meant just is activites managed by my app
Nov 18 19:28:41 <raidfive> and I just discovered that since I'm using a TabActivity for navigation, I can add the menu item to that and it will show up in all activities managed by the TabActivity
Nov 18 19:28:41 <herriojr> I would create a base class activity which has the menu item, and then extend it for your other activities
Nov 18 19:28:58 <herriojr> ah ok
Nov 18 19:29:38 <herriojr> I don't do much activity work, so you might know more than I do about it :)
Nov 18 19:30:06 <herriojr> it sounds to me like you are using an ActivityGroup?  I'm just curious
Nov 18 19:30:47 <tripps> so shuffle on the music player isn't random at all. it's the same exact order every time I play it :-/
Nov 18 19:31:11 <tripps> i should clarify that - every time I reshuffle it
Nov 18 19:37:28 <wastrel> anyone in contact with fbreaderj developers?
Nov 18 19:37:42 <wastrel> so it's shuffling the playlist
Nov 18 19:37:54 <wastrel> then you play the playlist  something like that?
Nov 18 19:38:43 <tripps> wastrel, I just bring up the various artists album, for example, and click shuffle all and it always plays the same order
Nov 18 19:39:02 <tripps> there are quite a few bugs ("features") in the music player IMO
Nov 18 19:39:23 <raidfive> herriojr: TabActivity and TabHost
Nov 18 19:39:30 <herriojr> is there a way to give my BroadcastReceiver my application permissions instead of using the context of the calling application?
Nov 18 19:40:37 <raidfive> but I don't think my solution is going to work :) ... it doesn't seem to want to call my method when I click the menu item
Nov 18 19:41:12 <herriojr> yeah, try making a base class and extending it to your other activities
Nov 18 19:41:16 <tripps> Another one is when I click artists, and I see an artist that says, for example, 1 album, 2 songs. when I click on that artist presumably I only want to see the songs by that artist. instead it displays the album which that artist is on. In my case, with a lot of dj mixed compilations, it ends up showing 50 songs rather than the 2 that he did
Nov 18 19:42:07 <raidfive> herriojr: I'll try that
Nov 18 19:43:37 <tripps> what I really want to see, however, more than any other single thing on the player, is support for streaming music
Nov 18 19:43:37 <wastrel> fbreader fbreader
Nov 18 19:50:01 <vol> fbreader
Nov 18 19:51:55 <floppyears> is there a way to read pdf files in the g1 ?
Nov 18 19:52:12 <ttuttle> floppyears: no
Nov 18 19:52:42 <floppyears> :(
Nov 18 19:53:21 <Rob-cs> whats up people?
Nov 18 19:53:51 <Rob-cs> did anyone see the articles floating around the interwebs about how ANDROID supports Multi-Touch... but it is merely just "commented out" of the source code?
Nov 18 19:54:37 <herriojr> check out the sourcecode and check
Nov 18 19:55:00 <trigatch4> i was just wondering if any devs had seen it and had an opinion
Nov 18 19:55:01 <herriojr> ok, android.permission.INSTALL_PACKAGES is not a valid permission for some reason
Nov 18 19:55:41 <herriojr> my app has it, and I'm using the context of my service, yet it gives me an error due to me not having the permission I declared myself as using
Nov 18 19:55:59 <wastrel> trigatch4: i saw a blogpost about it , it was commented out in the driver
Nov 18 19:56:16 <wastrel> that's aside from the fact that there's no support for it in the app framework
Nov 18 19:56:20 <androoid> whats the best way to use web service via the android?
Nov 18 19:56:25 <trigatch4> right... it was noted that it may have been for patent reasons
Nov 18 19:56:43 <trigatch4> which would make one think that Google/OHA is trying to either find a way to license the tech
Nov 18 19:56:51 <trigatch4> or get around the patent somehow or?
Nov 18 19:56:51 <floppyears> does anybody know how long had apple been working in iphone vs how long google had been working on android ?
Nov 18 19:57:14 <jbq> herriojr: I think it's a system-only permission.
Nov 18 19:57:37 <mikey|> http://www.ryebrye.com/blog/2008/11/17/proving-the-g1-screen-can-handle-multi-touch/
Nov 18 19:57:51 <androoid> hey it's RyeBrye
Nov 18 19:58:10 <herriojr> I wish the documentation would reflect that
Nov 18 19:59:02 <jbq> herriojr: lemme see. Do you have a URL to the doc?
Nov 18 20:00:07 <herriojr> jbq: actually, from the android source code, it doesn't seem to do anything different than if I were to check against a permission
Nov 18 20:00:07 <mikey|> pastebin.ca is always down it seems :/
Nov 18 20:00:07 <herriojr> http://code.google.com/android/reference/android/Manifest.permission.html#INSTALL_PACKAGES
Nov 18 20:01:17 <vol> RyeBrye:  awesome
Nov 18 20:03:22 <jbq> herriojr: thanks for the URI. I'll try to dig a bit. In a nutshell, that permission can only be granted to apps that are signed with the same signature as the framework itself. See like 760 in http://android.git.kernel.org/?p=platform/frameworks/base.git;a=blob;f=core/res/AndroidManifest.xml;h=104ba8846e8e209feea13b51cd2a2a0e55c534f2;hb=HEAD
Nov 18 20:04:00 <herriojr> and here: http://code.google.com/android/reference/android/content/pm/PackageManager.html#installPackage(android.net.Uri, android.content.pm.IPackageInstallObserver, int)
Nov 18 20:05:31 <jbq> Yup.
Nov 18 20:05:51 <unix_lappy> mikey|: that doesnt mean much in the short term, especially for the G1.
Nov 18 20:06:24 <mikey|> aye, but thought it was worth posting here
Nov 18 20:06:27 <mikey|> shame pastebin.ca is down again
Nov 18 20:06:28 <mikey|> wanted to see the output
Nov 18 20:07:16 <herriojr> that stinks
Nov 18 20:07:17 <Disconnect> mikey|: first someone has to add it to the event system (or, better, get the EGR stuff into the touchscreen firmware) .. then add it to the platform (requires rooted device, and slightly risky to reflash those) and then write an app that can handle it.
Nov 18 20:07:44 <unix_lappy> unless Android already has a framework for a multitouch device already good to go for other devices, but was just not aware and thus not focusing on making the G1 a multitouch device.
Nov 18 20:07:57 <herriojr> well, I guess at the very least, I can download the application and have the user install it
Nov 18 20:08:38 <jbq> herriojr: sorry about the confusion. I left a note for the documentation guys to clear this up. This is a very dangerous permission (it literally controls every other permission) so you shouldn't expect it to become public "as is".
Nov 18 20:09:11 <jbq> herriojr: yes, the proper path is to put the apk in either a file (typically on the SD card) or in your content provider, and invoke "ACTION_VIEW" on it.
Nov 18 20:10:18 <jbq> Here's a bit of code that does it: http://android.git.kernel.org/?p=platform/packages/providers/DownloadProvider.git;a=blob;f=src/com/android/providers/downloads/DownloadReceiver.java;h=e5bc4e1f19c6bfab1bc9b6dc37e217327b511e09;hb=master#l100 (you'll probably have to dig around a bit)
Nov 18 20:11:58 <herriojr> jbq: thanks
Nov 18 20:13:42 <mikey|> http://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=21&can=1&colspec=ID%20Type%20Version%20Security%20Status%20Owner%20Summary
Nov 18 20:13:42 <mikey|> lol
Nov 18 20:14:04 <herriojr> jbq: I'm curious, can apk's be signed with multiple signatures?
Nov 18 20:15:22 <mikey|> iirc, yes
Nov 18 20:15:48 <mikey|> ".... Note that you can sign an APK multiple times with different keys....."
Nov 18 20:16:06 <mikey|> http://code.google.com/android/devel/sign-publish.html
Nov 18 20:16:24 <orci_> hi, anybody have any idea why I cannot find this on youtube app on android? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f2eYLK6TpRs&feature=PlayList&p=51CACD5B1F58C40C&index=0
Nov 18 20:16:25 <RyeBrye> mikey| - is pastebin not working for those links?
Nov 18 20:16:33 <RyeBrye> one of them is pastebin.com and not pastebin.ca
Nov 18 20:16:45 <mikey|> ah, ok
Nov 18 20:17:00 <mikey|> pastebin.ca has poor uptime
Nov 18 20:17:09 <RyeBrye> mikey| - they all seem to work for me, but they might be cached for me
Nov 18 20:17:21 <orci_> when I search in youtube app am i searching in a smaller databse than the actual youtube.com database?
Nov 18 20:17:32 <RyeBrye> http://pastebin.com/m3d671b69 is not as interesting as some of the others - just shows me varying pressure on each finger independently while one of them gets tapped in different places
Nov 18 20:18:18 <mikey|> strange, I can ping pastebin.ca from a .US server, but not from home or from a .uk server
Nov 18 20:18:20 <herriojr> jbq: it would be cool if you guys added in the notion of a Package Group, so choosing it in the Market will install all of the packages in the group
Nov 18 20:18:20 <floppyears> orci_: yes, I believe the same case is for the iphone.
Nov 18 20:18:48 <orci_> floppyears, any idea why would that be?
Nov 18 20:19:17 <floppyears> because the videos in youtube are actually re-encoded to play in those devices
Nov 18 20:19:44 <orci_> floppyears, aah
Nov 18 20:20:19 <unix_lappy> orci_: try clicking on the youtube link for that video from youtube.com
Nov 18 20:20:23 <unix_lappy> it should bring up the youtube player on android.
Nov 18 20:20:23 <jbq> herriojr: I think I've heard some discussions inside google about something like that. not quite sure, though, but it's fairly natural anyway.
Nov 18 20:20:27 <orci_> unix_lappy, that's a good idea
Nov 18 20:20:28 <orci_> I'll try
Nov 18 20:20:41 <herriojr> ok
Nov 18 20:22:11 <orci_> unix_lappy, this video is processing and may take a while. please try again later.
Nov 18 20:22:30 <mikey|> flash will be on android soon, so you can watch all the youtube want :)
Nov 18 20:22:50 <orci_> mikey|, I wish that was not true
Nov 18 20:23:16 <mikey|> why so?
Nov 18 20:23:46 <orci_> I believe flash is not a good way of presenting stuff on the web
Nov 18 20:23:51 <orci_> though it is shiny
Nov 18 20:24:04 <mikey|> how would you prefer youtube streamed videos?
Nov 18 20:24:04 <unix_lappy> orci_: like floppyears said, it's reencoded. that video hasnt been processed yet.
Nov 18 20:24:13 <orci_> mikey|, using html+ogg
Nov 18 20:24:14 <herriojr> jbq: I don't know if you'll be able to answer this one, but will there be a change to allow applications to allow other applications use one of its activities without having to share a userId?
Nov 18 20:24:31 <unix_lappy> orci_: if you REALLY need the video try vixy.net
Nov 18 20:24:42 <jbq> herriojr: you can do that today. startActivity with the right intent.
Nov 18 20:25:30 <herriojr> jbq: what I mean is display it in an activitygroup
Nov 18 20:26:03 <herriojr> jbq: sorry, forgot that part :)
Nov 18 20:26:08 <orci_> unix_lappy, yeah, any idea what is google's algorithm to priotize the encodings?
Nov 18 20:26:08 <jbq> herriojr: I don't know what those are, sorry (I never did any UI on Android).
Nov 18 20:26:17 * jbq goes to lunch, people are waiting.
Nov 18 20:26:21 <herriojr> basically, I want to display another application's activity in my activity
Nov 18 20:26:38 <herriojr> as kind of a sub-screen
Nov 18 20:27:04 <herriojr> jbq: ok, np :)
Nov 18 20:27:04 <vol> RyeBrye: Have you been using arm-eabi-gdb in your hacking? If so, have you hooked it up to any sort of visual debugger, or are you doing straight up command line (for life)
Nov 18 20:27:05 <unix_lappy> herriojr: romainguy might now.
Nov 18 20:27:10 <unix_lappy> know*
Nov 18 20:27:24 <herriojr> unix_lappy: I just wanted to see if they have plans on changing it, currently they only allow it with a shared user id
Nov 18 20:37:41 <herriojr> jbq: last question for the day, if deleting is also a signature-based permission, what activity can I redirect them to in order to prompt to delete?
Nov 18 20:37:58 <herriojr> or actually, the user experience for that would be awful
Nov 18 20:38:06 <herriojr> nevermind
Nov 18 20:40:12 <jasta> i am trying to debug why it appears that home is being reaped for memory before other apps (including mine)?
Nov 18 20:40:18 <jasta> anyone have a good place to start debugging something like that?
Nov 18 20:40:38 <jasta> almost every time i open the browser home gets restarted, when i look at running processes a bunhc of things that i think should be killed first are still alive
Nov 18 20:44:40 <wastrel> that's annoying yes
Nov 18 20:47:52 <jasta> must be some sort of bug?  i'd like to see if i could understnad this a bit better
Nov 18 20:48:33 <wastrel> i don't like waiting a minute for home to reload after using browser
Nov 18 20:48:33 <jasta> but im not sure where to begin
Nov 18 20:49:07 <jmo> I think "adb shell dumpsys activity" will give you the table of priorities for reaping
Nov 18 20:49:07 <wastrel> i recommend complaining to romainguy_
Nov 18 20:49:07 <jmo> (and a lot of other stuff)
Nov 18 20:49:07 <jasta> for instance, i can see my app process is taken up like 8 or 9MB of ram, but is totally inactive
Nov 18 20:49:07 <jasta> why not kill it first?
Nov 18 20:49:25 <fadden> jasta: adb shell dumpsys activity | grep oom_adj
Nov 18 20:50:27 <jasta> also, how can i tell if a process has in fact been reaped by the oom killer?  can i guess based on its pid?
Nov 18 20:51:05 <fadden> adb shell dmesg
Nov 18 20:51:15 <RyeBrye> vol - I've just been using the command line for now, but I'm not against using arm-eabi-gdb
Nov 18 20:53:52 <vol> RyeBrye: You mean you haven't been using a debugger at all?
Nov 18 20:54:30 <vol> fadden: same question for you, since you're here; do you use a visual frontend for arm-eabi-gdb, or do you just use the command line?
Nov 18 20:55:19 <vol> romainguy_ too I suppose, though he's not here
Nov 18 20:55:36 <romainguy_> I don't use native code
Nov 18 20:55:37 <romainguy_> (well except right now, but I'm not using a debugger :)
Nov 18 20:55:37 * vol shakes his fist
Nov 18 20:56:02 <vol> curses
Nov 18 20:56:06 <RyeBrye> vol - have you been using arm-eabi-gdb?
Nov 18 20:56:06 <romainguy_> I just wait for the native to blow up
Nov 18 20:56:07 <romainguy_> then I use tools/stack :)
Nov 18 20:56:25 * andyross very occasionally uses gud-mode in emacs (although not yet for the G1) if he's stepping through very diffuse code (e.g. OOP stuff where every call is virtual and you don't know where it's going).  But usually just plain gdb is good enough.
Nov 18 20:56:25 <RyeBrye> I'd have to recompile most of my stuff for it to be useful, I imagine - since I think all debug symbols are stripped
Nov 18 20:56:36 <vol> RyeBrye: Yes, we just got arm-eabi-gdb to actually work correctly for us
Nov 18 20:56:43 <RyeBrye> cool
Nov 18 20:56:45 <RyeBrye> you have instructions somewhere?
Nov 18 20:56:52 <vol> I do, but they're not particularly special
Nov 18 20:57:20 <vol> our biggest stumbling block was figuring out A) that we're debugging against dalvikvm and B) solib-absolute-prefix and solib-search-path have to be set up right
Nov 18 20:57:29 <fadden> vol: I do most of my native work on the desktop ("lunch 2") build.  I'm nearly unique in that respect though.
Nov 18 20:57:56 <vol> it's probably simpler for you to just use the gdbclient function once you've set up lunch
Nov 18 20:58:09 <vol> fadden: boo
Nov 18 20:58:09 <fadden> vol: yup
Nov 18 20:59:13 <jasta> how do i read oom_adj?  higher numbers are likely to be killed first?
Nov 18 20:59:22 <fadden> Yes.
Nov 18 21:00:05 <Disconnect> probably (i'm just guessing) home is supposed to launch way faster than it actually tends to, so its first on the block for ram recovery
Nov 18 21:00:18 <jasta> interesting, my app is at 0,  below android.process.acore at7.
Nov 18 21:00:22 <jasta> ohhh, i bet i know
Nov 18 21:00:33 <jasta> i call setForeground(true) but i think i never set it to false.  i just figured i'd die after stopSelf and it wouldn't matter...
Nov 18 21:00:52 <jasta> but there must still be activities bound to it which are keeping the whole thing alive with a high priority
Nov 18 21:00:56 <jasta> thanks guys.
Nov 18 21:01:14 <fadden> We're here to help.  In my case, we're here to help with as few words as possible.
Nov 18 21:01:23 <Disconnect> lol
Nov 18 21:01:23 <fadden> ;-)
Nov 18 21:02:20 <raidfive> can anyone point me in the right direction for documentation related to audio recording/playback?
Nov 18 21:02:47 <jasta> zhobbs: did you ever come to a conclusion about leaking when your player service is in a separate process?
Nov 18 21:03:33 <zhobbs> jasta: no, I keep putting it off...I even converted to using a RemoteCallbackList and it's still happening for me...
Nov 18 21:03:46 <zhobbs> I need to create a simple example and see if it happens
Nov 18 21:04:52 <jasta> i'm reluctant to switch to using a remote process for fear of your bug surfacing in my app as well
Nov 18 21:05:27 <zhobbs> jasta: I'll try to reproduce in a small project today...
Nov 18 21:08:38 <jbq> herriojr: If there's a way to directly invoke the uninstaller for a package, I'm not aware of it, sorry.
Nov 18 21:10:15 <Ramblurr> eclipse stopped generating the R.java file
Nov 18 21:10:19 <Ramblurr> i suspect there is an error that is making it die
Nov 18 21:10:28 <Ramblurr> but i can't figure out how to generate it with the aapt tool
Nov 18 21:10:55 <vol> Look in eclipse's problems tab
Nov 18 21:10:57 <vol> also, make sure it's loaded as an android project instead of a java project
Nov 18 21:10:57 <herriojr> jbq: np
Nov 18 21:11:16 <herriojr> jbq: thanks for all the help :)
Nov 18 21:11:28 <Ramblurr> vol: the problem tab only shows the "R cannot be resolved" error
Nov 18 21:11:37 <Ramblurr> vol:  and yes it is an android project
Nov 18 21:11:53 <jbq> herriojr: np, sorry that you had to spend some time walking into a dead end because of some incomplete documentation.
Nov 18 21:12:16 <vol> er, huh. Right click the little folder for the project and hit refresh?
Nov 18 21:12:36 <Ramblurr> already tried that
Nov 18 21:12:36 <Ramblurr> no luck :(
Nov 18 21:13:13 <jasta> fadden: interesting, i found another bug which prevents my service from stopping any longer
Nov 18 21:13:17 <jasta> so both of those issues combined lead to my app having much too high a priority
Nov 18 21:13:23 <jasta> which is bad considering i sling a lot of memory :)
Nov 18 21:13:47 <jasta> this oom_adj metric is very helpful
Nov 18 21:15:03 <Ramblurr> vol: heh
Nov 18 21:15:28 <Ramblurr> ./aapt p -m -J . -M AndroidManifest.xml -S res/ -I ~/src/android_sdk/android.jar     => Segmentation fault
Nov 18 21:15:29 <vol> gg
Nov 18 21:15:38 <vol> stop messing up
Nov 18 21:15:38 <_avatar> my ListView rows are clickable, and work fine if the user touches them to perform a click. however, the user uses the trackball to select one, then presses the trackball down, the onClickListener isn't fired. i don't remember having this problem in my other app, and i can't find any real code differences. can someone remind me if i have to flip a bit somewhere to get this to work?
Nov 18 21:16:05 <_avatar> the rows focus just fine, btw, using the trackball, and even display a "pressed" state when the trackball is down
Nov 18 21:16:18 <herriojr> jbq: well, if it weren't for me walking into a dead end, the documentation probably wouldn't get fixed :)
Nov 18 21:16:57 <jbq> herriojr: true. Now we've got to hope that the doc gets fixed before other people bump into the issue.
Nov 18 21:18:37 <Ramblurr> bah so aapt segfaults when you  reference a non-existent image file in an xml file?
Nov 18 21:19:42 <herriojr> jbq: now if I could only get the Sms Broadcaster to instead do Ordered Broadcasts or actually allow port-directed Sms's :)
Nov 18 21:20:03 <zhobbs> jasta: it's pretty bad I put this service example off for so long, I'm almost done :)
Nov 18 21:20:25 <jasta> lol
Nov 18 21:20:26 <jbq> herriojr: sadly, I don't know anything about that part to be able to help (or even make changes for future versions).
Nov 18 21:20:26 <jasta> are you able to demonstrate the issue?
Nov 18 21:20:43 <zhobbs> don't know, not done yet
Nov 18 21:20:44 <jasta> yay, i got my app working properly again, i now have higher priority than home so i can be reaped when the browser gobbles up all the memory
Nov 18 21:20:54 <jasta> err, higher oom_adj, lower priority
Nov 18 21:20:54 <herriojr> I have the code checked out, so I can modify it
Nov 18 21:21:14 <herriojr> then submit a patch
Nov 18 21:21:26 <jasta> hey, does anyone else notice the SMS app's conversation list activity is really slow?
Nov 18 21:21:33 <herriojr> jasta: haven't looked into it
Nov 18 21:21:59 <jasta> scrolling around in that app is the choppiest experience i've seen in any other app by a long shot
Nov 18 21:22:02 <jasta> stutters for about a second or more during each fling
Nov 18 21:22:18 * vol goes on another downloading orgy
Nov 18 21:22:20 <vol> I can't get enough 30k apps :D :D :D
Nov 18 21:22:43 <zhobbs> jasta: I noticed that and scrolling is slow in the IM app...and the text isn't formatted correctly until the fling/scroll is finished
Nov 18 21:22:49 <wastrel> i've sent maybe 3 sms'sses
Nov 18 21:23:18 <RyeBrye> vol - I had 49 notifications sitting up in my notifications bar once telling me about all the apps I just downloaded
Nov 18 21:23:33 * RyeBrye went on a DL orgy
Nov 18 21:23:36 <vol> heh
Nov 18 21:24:04 <jasta> zhobbs: i looked at the code and it doesn't seem too weird
Nov 18 21:24:17 <jasta> i had begun to doubt whether the android source matches the app that is installed on the g1
Nov 18 21:25:37 <unix_lappy> RyeBrye: lol, you have space after install 49 apps?
Nov 18 21:26:03 <RyeBrye> How does the T-mobile billing you for AIM messages work out? Is the piece that sends AIM messages in the IM client set to go through a specific server or somethign?
Nov 18 21:26:24 <RyeBrye> unix_lappy - I had just done a factory wipe, so I was re-installing everything :)
Nov 18 21:26:52 <vol> RyeBrye: if it doesn't go through the data service I would be very surprised indeed, so I would expect it to be free
Nov 18 21:27:43 <unix_lappy> still, 49 apps seems a little too much and regardless would fill things up.
Nov 18 21:27:55 <Disconnect> vol: it goes through data, but its not free. (well, people go back and forth. on other tmob phones it bills as an sms.)
Nov 18 21:28:04 <vol> orly?
Nov 18 21:28:34 <vol> unix_lappy: I have 62 items in my menu.
Nov 18 21:28:34 <Disconnect> ok i'd love to look that up real quick btu my f'ing laptop is going crazy.
Nov 18 21:28:42 <Disconnect> anyway :) goog it
Nov 18 21:28:43 <vol> Admitted a few of them are apps from work / personal development
Nov 18 21:28:48 <vol> but still.
Nov 18 21:30:10 <RyeBrye> Disconnect - so on the G1 it doesn't charge AIM messages as if they were SMS? That was one thing that wasn't ever made too clear either way
Nov 18 21:30:28 <Disconnect> RyeBrye: i think it does. at least, the fine print claims it does.
Nov 18 21:31:02 <RyeBrye> Ok. Even if they go over my wifi? that seems a little ridiculous
Nov 18 21:31:09 <Disconnect> yep
Nov 18 21:31:13 * RyeBrye should send T-mobile a bill for every message his phone sends out over his wifi
Nov 18 21:31:59 <vol> wait, seriously? It's not billing me for XMPP messages, is it?
Nov 18 21:32:00 <vol> oh shi
Nov 18 21:32:02 <RyeBrye> Not for google talk ones
Nov 18 21:32:03 <Disconnect> vol: not for gtalk but supposedly its doing it for the others.
Nov 18 21:32:09 <vol> ugh
Nov 18 21:32:10 <RyeBrye> vol - you can go online and check your current billing details and see what it says
Nov 18 21:32:45 <RyeBrye> vol - go look at the bill for this month under "current usage" and see for sure what it's doing - I'm curious to know if they show up like SMS or not
Nov 18 21:32:50 <RyeBrye> you have to use to popup to switch to "messaging" iirc
Nov 18 21:32:58 <vol> hmm
Nov 18 21:32:58 <sfuentes> xmpp is not billed
Nov 18 21:39:18 <vol> interesting.
Nov 18 21:39:19 <vol> I'm still not billed for data?
Nov 18 21:39:29 <Disconnect> "within reason" iirc
Nov 18 21:39:36 <Disconnect> was 1g, now its "excessive"
Nov 18 21:39:37 <wasabi> So has anybody been writing about their experiences getting a standard linux distro booting on the device?
Nov 18 21:39:54 <Disconnect> ..has anybody been getting a standard linux distro booting?
Nov 18 21:39:57 <Disconnect> thats kinda a perquisite for writing about it :)
Nov 18 21:40:06 <kRutOn> There was a guy that wrote about installing Debian
Nov 18 21:40:11 <Disconnect> its not installed, its chrooted in a loopback mount on the sd.
Nov 18 21:40:20 <Disconnect> thats a couple steps down from livecd even :)
Nov 18 21:40:42 <wasabi> Yeah. Somebody had  Debian booting.
Nov 18 21:40:49 <vol> jej
Nov 18 21:40:53 <wasabi> really?
Nov 18 21:40:53 <vol> *heh
Nov 18 21:40:53 <wasabi> no way.
Nov 18 21:40:55 <Disconnect> see above. they didn't have it booting. they had it chrooted.
Nov 18 21:40:59 <wasabi> That's retartded.
Nov 18 21:40:59 <wasabi> Why even announce that
Nov 18 21:41:03 <wasabi> Thats equiv to "I have root"
Nov 18 21:41:12 <Disconnect> although everyone seems to be calling that "booted" or "ported" :/
Nov 18 21:41:25 <kRutOn> well, you have to compile it for the ARM... :-)
Nov 18 21:41:27 <Disconnect> oh its saurik. http://www.saurik.com/id/10
Nov 18 21:41:33 <wasabi> That's dumb.
Nov 18 21:41:33 <Disconnect> kRutOn: ..why?
Nov 18 21:41:41 <Disconnect> its already got an armel port
Nov 18 21:42:38 <kRutOn> Okay, he has an image, but normally you'd just have to compile the whole thing because there are several options when doing ARM stuff
Nov 18 21:43:02 <wasabi> Not really.
Nov 18 21:43:06 <wasabi> Armel runs.
Nov 18 21:43:15 <wasabi> All he's doing is debootstrapping that.
Nov 18 21:44:06 <kRutOn> Have you compiled Linux for an ARM target before? I'm just saying that there isn't one standard tree because there are a couple options depending on what the hardware supports.
Nov 18 21:44:08 <wasabi> Sure there is. Armeb and armel.
Nov 18 21:44:21 <Disconnect> right. the hardware does armel in this case. no compiling needed.
Nov 18 21:44:48 <vol> Ah, ok, I am getting billed for it, it just wasn't part of that cycle.
Nov 18 21:45:03 <vol> Hmm, forgot to ask whether AIM costs for SMS or something
Nov 18 21:45:27 <wasabi> I'd sort of expect somebody to have listed all the binary only bits on the device by this point.
Nov 18 21:45:36 <wasabi> And explained what changes in the kernel they made, and what missing drivers we'll have to fight with.
Nov 18 21:45:51 <kRutOn> uh-huh.. what about ELF vs. FLAT, no-FPU vs FPU, etc
Nov 18 21:46:17 <wasabi> http://wiki.debian.org/ArmEabiPort
Nov 18 21:46:22 <wasabi> FPU is emulated in kernel.
Nov 18 21:46:47 <wasabi> Oh, Is ee what you mean though.
Nov 18 21:47:18 <wasabi> And so Debian is making decisions about what to do for what packages.
Nov 18 21:47:18 <wasabi> Like they do for non arm stuff.
Nov 18 21:47:18 <Disconnect> istr the fpu stuff is handled in glibc.
Nov 18 21:47:52 <Ramblurr> is it possible to generate radial gradients using the xml <gradient> tag?
Nov 18 21:48:22 <geist> both actually. if you run a fpu instruction the kernel can emulate it
Nov 18 21:48:31 <geist> but it's really slow, the best bet is never to emit them
Nov 18 21:48:33 <geist> which the compiler will do
Nov 18 21:48:37 <geist> that's only just slow
Nov 18 21:49:08 <vol> I really find it bizarre that the FPU is emulated
Nov 18 21:49:25 <geist> why?
Nov 18 21:49:25 <wasabi> It's emulated when not available in hardware. Does the G1's hardware have a FPU? Guessing so.
Nov 18 21:49:39 <geist> it does not
Nov 18 21:49:40 <wasabi> Oh?
Nov 18 21:49:49 <geist> for some reason QC picked the absolute crappiest arm11 you can get
Nov 18 21:49:57 <Disconnect> i'd be surprised if it did, really
Nov 18 21:50:02 <vol> I'd have paid another $10 for an FPU :P
Nov 18 21:50:06 <geist> most arm11s have it, but it's technically an option when you license the core
Nov 18 21:50:06 <vol> probably would have made things absolutely fly
Nov 18 21:50:27 <geist> this is the only cpu family i know if that didn't include it
Nov 18 21:50:27 <Disconnect> vol: yah but the problem is, nobody else would. and you lose some compatibility.
Nov 18 21:50:31 <geist> it's probably a die size problem more than anything  else
Nov 18 21:50:31 <zhobbs> jasta: not able to reproduce that remote service issue in my small demo app
Nov 18 21:50:49 <Disconnect> its a standard for arm to have no fpu and suck ass :)
Nov 18 21:50:53 <jasta> hmm, lame
Nov 18 21:50:54 <geist> the more modern arm11+s almost always have fpus
Nov 18 21:50:54 <Disconnect> (suck ass @ fp math i mean)
Nov 18 21:50:55 <geist> *except* this one
Nov 18 21:50:55 <Disconnect> not in the consumer devices.
Nov 18 21:50:59 <geist> sure they do
Nov 18 21:51:02 <geist> arm11s
Nov 18 21:51:05 <zhobbs> jasta: so back the drawing board on my problem
Nov 18 21:51:17 <geist> i know of no other arm11 that does't have an fpu
Nov 18 21:51:18 <Disconnect> at least on linux, only time i've seen an arm with fpu being sold was an option on the various viper boards.
Nov 18 21:51:29 <geist> mx31, all the omaps, etc
Nov 18 21:51:40 <Disconnect> but that doesn't really count for "consumer devices"
Nov 18 21:51:58 <geist> what?
Nov 18 21:51:59 <geist> zune, treos dont count?
Nov 18 21:52:20 <geist> iphone?
Nov 18 21:52:21 <geist> i hear that people use those
Nov 18 21:52:21 <Disconnect> viper doesn't count, but feel free to get all indignant. its funny.
Nov 18 21:52:30 <Disconnect> and seriously, nobody uses the zune. :)
Nov 18 21:52:31 <vol> Zune?
Nov 18 21:52:32 <vol> srsly?
Nov 18 21:52:43 <geist> i'm just saying, pretty much every real arm11 that ships has a fpu
Nov 18 21:52:47 <geist> *except* the one based on the msm cpus
Nov 18 21:52:48 <geist> it sucks
Nov 18 21:54:12 <Disconnect> actually.. http://www.managedobjects.com.au/2008/4/9/fixed-point-arithmetic-on-the-iphone says no fpu
Nov 18 21:54:21 <geist> it has one
Nov 18 21:54:21 <kRutOn> Maybe we'll get a device based on NVidia's embedded SoC
Nov 18 21:54:23 <geist> i guarantee it
Nov 18 21:55:00 <wasabi> Update: Thanks to John in the comments. Looks like iPhone does have an FPU.
Nov 18 21:55:00 <zhobbs> jasta: ahh, I can reproduce it actually....
Nov 18 21:55:01 <wasabi> ^ on the same page
Nov 18 21:55:03 <Disconnect> geist: 3g or original?
Nov 18 21:55:52 <geist> both
Nov 18 21:55:53 <geist> same cpu
Nov 18 21:55:53 <jasta> zhobbs: can you post the code?
Nov 18 21:55:56 <zhobbs> jasta: sure
Nov 18 21:55:57 <jasta> i'd love to ook at this
Nov 18 21:55:58 <Disconnect> http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=1683879&tstart=210 here it is from apple. "Yes, the iPhone has an FPU. It's the VFP, so you can also do SIMD with it."
Nov 18 21:56:32 <geist> right
Nov 18 21:56:45 <geist> it's a standard arm1176 + vfp
Nov 18 21:57:30 <kRutOn> I think the NVidia chip is supposed to be like the iPhone's chip but up to 4 core
Nov 18 21:57:36 <geist> the thumb thing is what clobbers it. since most of the code on the iphone is thumbv1 it can't get to vfp
Nov 18 21:57:38 <geist> idea is that code that actually needs the fpu should be compiled ARM
Nov 18 21:57:40 <geist> which is exactly what they said in that thread
Nov 18 21:59:57 <mikey|> anyone else have problems with the emulator taking forever to load?
Nov 18 22:00:09 <zhobbs> jasta: http://www.helloandroid.com/files/RemoteServiceLeak.tar.gz
Nov 18 22:00:09 <kRutOn> geist: hm, is thumb faster in the general case?
Nov 18 22:00:17 <jasta> fadden: sigh, no dumpsys activity on the G1 :(
Nov 18 22:00:21 <Disconnect> not forever. couple mins. once it gets locked it stays, you have to hit menu to unlock it and start it going
Nov 18 22:00:35 <geist> kRutOn: on cached starved cpus, it a lot of times is
Nov 18 22:01:02 <zhobbs> jasta: it won't leak if: 1) you don't bind to the service in the first Activity, or 2) change the service to be a local service
Nov 18 22:01:02 <geist> for general code that doesn't need to do really fancy stuff (like fpu)
Nov 18 22:01:21 <geist> most arms, even high end ones, are only running on a 16K/16K cache, so they realy take a hit
Nov 18 22:01:26 <jasta> zhobbs: gah, you used 1.6-isms ;)
Nov 18 22:01:26 <geist> thumb code tends to be somewhat denser, so a lot of times it's a win
Nov 18 22:01:29 <zhobbs> jasta: :)
Nov 18 22:01:46 <geist> when i worked at apple I pushed real hard to get stuff compiled on thumb, and did a bunch of benchmarking to back up my case
Nov 18 22:02:27 <zhobbs> jasta: hopefully I'm just doing something wrong and you can point it out
Nov 18 22:02:29 <geist> android is aggressively using thumb as well, IIRC
Nov 18 22:03:19 <geist> the usual downside to using thumbv1 is there arne't any vfp instructions in it, but it's a moot point on the msm cpu, since it doesn't have an fpu anyway
Nov 18 22:03:20 <zhobbs> jasta: whoops...forget to do mListeners.finishBroadcast() in that example, will see if that makes a difference
Nov 18 22:03:45 <kRutOn> geist: ah, yeah, I wasn't thinking about the size of the generated code
Nov 18 22:04:23 <geist> that's the key. it's kind of counter intuitive, since thumb code tends to emit more instructions to do the same thing
Nov 18 22:04:31 <geist> it's a further risc on the already risc instruction set
Nov 18 22:04:31 <zhobbs> jasta: didn't make a difference
Nov 18 22:04:36 <jasta> zhobbs: how are you testing for the leak?
Nov 18 22:04:43 <geist> but since it decreases cache pressure, it a lot of times works much better
Nov 18 22:04:50 <jasta> which object in particular is leaking as well?
Nov 18 22:05:02 <zhobbs> jasta: just watching the heap size in the ddms perspective in eclipse
Nov 18 22:05:39 <jasta> ahh, well, that isn't necessarily a leak...
Nov 18 22:05:43 <zhobbs> just launch/close that 2nd activity over and over and watch the heap grow
Nov 18 22:06:01 <jasta> oh ok that is :)
Nov 18 22:06:05 <mikey|> how do you uninstall an app from the emulator?
Nov 18 22:06:09 <jasta> adb uninstall
Nov 18 22:06:10 <vol> or settings -> applications -> uninstall
Nov 18 22:06:19 <jasta> or that
Nov 18 22:06:31 <zhobbs> jasta: yeah, force GC often...you can try it as local and remote and see the difference...
Nov 18 22:07:00 <mikey|> I installed the Term.apk, I tried adb uninstall Term and Term.apk, neither worked
Nov 18 22:07:09 <jasta> ok this will take me a second to setup and test...
Nov 18 22:07:09 <mikey|> I dont know the package name >.<
Nov 18 22:07:14 <jasta> mikey|: adb shell ls /data/app
Nov 18 22:07:15 <kRutOn> mikey|: You can do pm list packages
Nov 18 22:07:31 <kRutOn> mikey|: In the adb shell
Nov 18 22:07:32 <mikey|> can the emulator do that?
Nov 18 22:07:32 <mikey|> ok
Nov 18 22:07:38 <jasta> zhobbs: which process is the leak in?
Nov 18 22:07:42 <jasta> the remote or local?
Nov 18 22:07:42 <zhobbs> local
Nov 18 22:08:11 <herriojr> ok, so I see there are port directed sms
Nov 18 22:08:33 <herriojr> I just don't know how to specify from a server what port to send to the phone
Nov 18 22:11:35 <jasta> zhobbs: well i can say pretty confidently that your usage matches mine to the letter, so i won't be able to suggest any quick fixes :)
Nov 18 22:11:52 <jasta> well, except that i do destroy the remotecallbacklist in the service, but the services ondestroy isnt gonna get called here anyway
Nov 18 22:13:27 <jasta> zhobbs: i guess what we need to look at here is finding the object in particular that's getting leaked
Nov 18 22:13:29 <jasta> and ddms should help there
Nov 18 22:17:18 <jasta> zhobbs: i am unable to show the heap consistently growing, however...
Nov 18 22:17:37 <herriojr> has anyone tested port-directed sms?
Nov 18 22:18:58 <zhobbs> jasta: no?  mine starts at just under 32k objects, and if I open/close the 2nd activity a bunch of times I'm now up to 37k objects and GC isn't making it any smaller
Nov 18 22:19:28 <zhobbs> jasta: the heap updates only happen after GC, so you need to force GC
Nov 18 22:19:45 <herriojr> I found that there is a broadcast for port-directed with the intent... sendBroadcast(new Intent("android.intent.action.DATA_SMS_RECEIVED", Uri.parse("http://localhost:port"))
Nov 18 22:19:45 <zhobbs> just under 33k*
Nov 18 22:21:55 <jasta> yeah i know, i just tested that and it didn't happen for me.
Nov 18 22:21:59 <jasta> it did seem to grow, but then it went down again
Nov 18 22:22:31 <jasta> overall consistently growing, but at a crawling pace
Nov 18 22:22:36 <jasta> i will definitely look at this tho
Nov 18 22:22:48 <zhobbs> ok...you on the device or emu?
Nov 18 22:27:43 <zhobbs> heap grows for me on device and emu
Nov 18 22:28:05 <jasta> im on emu
Nov 18 22:35:46 <P1ro> anyone know wich wireless chipset the G1 have ? there its no lspci command like ?
Nov 18 22:39:01 <andyross> Unsurprising, given the lack of a pci bus. :)  The wifi driver identifies itself as a "TI WLAN Embedded Station" FWIW.
Nov 18 22:40:27 <jbq> I'd say TI 1251 for the wifi part, but what do I know... http://android.git.kernel.org/?p=platform/system/wlan/ti.git;a=summary
Nov 18 22:41:42 <andyross> Heh, I saw the module and just assumed it was proprietary.  Looks like that's the source, even.  Nice.
Nov 18 22:46:54 <raidfive> is it possible to use the MediaRecorder APIs to simulate the recording of audio on the emulator?
Nov 18 22:47:40 <raidfive> emulator seems to crash on recorder.start() and I'm trying to figure out if I have something wrong or you just can't use these APIs in the emulator
Nov 18 22:51:50 <mikey|> trying to get feedback from my siblings about my app, siblings that know zilch about irc, is pointless :/
Nov 18 22:52:13 <andyross> First rule of marketing is identifying your market. :)
Nov 18 22:52:21 <Disconnect> heh
Nov 18 22:55:21 <Disconnect> ok so how do i take a screenshot in teh emu?
Nov 18 22:55:50 <mikey-> router rebooted :/
Nov 18 22:56:35 <Disconnect> how do i take a screenshot in the emu? and what format(s) does the app icon need to provide?
Nov 18 22:59:18 <romainguy_> you take a screenshot using DDMS
Nov 18 22:59:35 <romainguy_> works with the device as wel
Nov 18 23:00:20 <romainguy_> and for the app icon, a 48x48 bitmap (or bigger)
Nov 18 23:02:12 <Disconnect> cool :)
Nov 18 23:02:38 <romainguy_> if you make it bigger, make it 96x96
Nov 18 23:02:46 <romainguy_> the resizing will be better
Nov 18 23:02:47 <trigatch4> michaelnovakjr: como esta frijoles
Nov 18 23:03:24 <andyross> Is there any advantage to a bigger icon?  Does it show up in a larger format somewhere?
Nov 18 23:04:03 <romainguy_> andyross: no, no advantage
Nov 18 23:04:27 <romainguy_> you'll make Home startup slower though
Nov 18 23:04:33 <Disconnect> ..thats just what i need, make it still slower :)
Nov 18 23:04:53 <_avatar> romainguy_: did you happen to catch my ListView question a little while ago?
Nov 18 23:05:06 <romainguy_> nope
Nov 18 23:05:06 * RyeBrye is off to make an app called "HomeTurtle" that does nothing, but has a 1024x1024 icon
Nov 18 23:05:06 <Disconnect> hehe
Nov 18 23:06:35 <ttuttle> romainguy_: ...
Nov 18 23:06:35 <Disconnect> 320x240 animated gif screenshot of your app
Nov 18 23:06:52 <vol> I suspect they shrink it.
Nov 18 23:06:52 <ttuttle> er
Nov 18 23:06:52 <ttuttle> RyeBrye: ...
Nov 18 23:07:09 <RyeBrye> ?
Nov 18 23:07:18 <ttuttle> RyeBrye: Why would you make an app with a huge icon?
Nov 18 23:07:18 <_avatar> romainguy_: my ListView rows are clickable, and work fine if the user touches them to perform a click. however, the user uses the trackball to select one, then presses the trackball down, the onClickListener isn't fired. i don't remember having this problem in my other app, and i can't find any real code differences. can you remind me if i have to flip a bit somewhere to get this to work?
Nov 18 23:07:20 <_avatar> the rows focus just fine using the trackball, and even display a "pressed" state when the trackball is down
Nov 18 23:07:28 <_avatar> (sorry for repasting my question from a little while ago)
Nov 18 23:07:30 <RyeBrye> ttuttle - because: "andyross: no, no advantage  you'll make Home startup slower though" (re: icon size)
Nov 18 23:07:35 <ttuttle> RyeBrye: :P
Nov 18 23:07:35 <RyeBrye> ttuttle - for those who want the home screen to slow down for them
Nov 18 23:07:39 <RyeBrye> you know, and give them time to think while it loads
Nov 18 23:07:39 <ttuttle> RyeBrye: That's already built in to Home :P
Nov 18 23:07:41 <Disconnect> yah :(
Nov 18 23:07:45 <romainguy_> _avatar: wait, you are using OnClickListeners?
Nov 18 23:08:14 <_avatar> i just have a ListView in a regular Activity, and yeah, was just setting the OnClickListener for the row's View, as returned by BaseAdapter.getView()
Nov 18 23:08:31 <romainguy_> don't do that :)
Nov 18 23:08:31 <_avatar> uh oh :O
Nov 18 23:08:39 <romainguy_> use OnListItemClickListener on ListView
Nov 18 23:08:41 <romainguy_> er
Nov 18 23:08:58 <romainguy_> OnItemClickListener
Nov 18 23:09:06 * _avatar looks at the docs
Nov 18 23:09:31 <_avatar> erm.
Nov 18 23:09:31 * _avatar hangs his head in shame
Nov 18 23:09:31 <_avatar> thanks
Nov 18 23:09:57 <mikey-> is there anyway to listen when a user on an editText field and presses up?
Nov 18 23:09:57 * RyeBrye just realizes 12 hours has passed since he checked the market... and panics and grabs his phone
Nov 18 23:10:05 <mikey-> in the emulator, the editText loses focus
Nov 18 23:11:01 <romainguy_> mikey-: use an OnClickListener or an OnTouchListener
Nov 18 23:11:42 <mikey-> will that work when the focus is on the editText and up is pressed?
Nov 18 23:12:00 <romainguy_> mikey-: oh sorry, I misunderstood what you meant
Nov 18 23:12:01 <mikey-> i dont have the phone yet, so I cant even test to how it would actually react on the phone, on the emu, the focus moves to another element
Nov 18 23:12:01 * RyeBrye also realizes it's been more than a day without making a plug for integrating OCR into Android
Nov 18 23:12:02 <romainguy_> the phone behaves like the emulator
Nov 18 23:12:02 <RyeBrye> hmm.. a receipt tracking application - now if only there was OCR in the platform - that would be even sweeter :)
Nov 18 23:12:30 <_avatar> romainguy_: my trackball click is working well now. :)
Nov 18 23:12:30 <_avatar> thanks
Nov 18 23:12:36 <RyeBrye> Has anyone sniffed out how that iPhone audio search app works?
Nov 18 23:12:37 <Disconnect> you mean shazam? its already ported
Nov 18 23:12:53 <RyeBrye> No, the one that does google
Nov 18 23:13:04 <RyeBrye> You say stuff like "Find rabbid corn" and it returns search results for rabbit porn
Nov 18 23:13:13 <Disconnect> infobot: logs
Nov 18 23:13:13 <infobot> All conversations are logged to http://ibot.rikers.org/channel, where "channel" is replaced by the URL-encoded channel name, such as %23freenode for #freenode. Lines starting with spaces are not logged.
Nov 18 23:14:11 <RyeBrye>  lines starting wiht spaces are not logged?
Nov 18 23:14:12 <RyeBrye>  me is OTR?
Nov 18 23:14:58 <vol>  infobot is a jerk
Nov 18 23:15:31 <vol>  (shh)
Nov 18 23:15:34 <Cedric2> s/infobot/vol
Nov 18 23:15:34 <vol> :<
Nov 18 23:15:42 <Cedric2> Ah darn infobot is asleep
Nov 18 23:15:43 <zhobbs> can you search the logs with infobot?
Nov 18 23:15:48 <Cedric2> Ah it probably only does the substitution when it's request by the person that made the comment
Nov 18 23:15:49 <RyeBrye> Cedric2 - I think it only does the s/ on stuff you say
Nov 18 23:15:49 <mikey-> mmm..time to catch up on tv shows me thinks
Nov 18 23:15:49 <mikey-> laters
Nov 18 23:16:00 <RyeBrye> s/think/know/
Nov 18 23:16:00 <infobot> RyeBrye meant: Cedric2 - I know it only does the s/ on stuff you say
Nov 18 23:16:03 <Cedric2> s/request/requested
Nov 18 23:16:05 <zhobbs> infobot: help
Nov 18 23:16:05 <Cedric2> infobot hates me
Nov 18 23:16:07 <infobot> yes.
Nov 18 23:16:24 <rwhitby> Cedric2: you forgot the terminating /
Nov 18 23:16:27 <Lieutenant> what does it mean by "this channel may now be logged on the web" ?
Nov 18 23:16:27 <vol> s/</>/
Nov 18 23:17:00 <armooo> RyeBrye: this is all i have about the voice search  http://waxy.org/2008/11/deconstructing_google_mobiles_voice_search_on_the_iphone/
Nov 18 23:17:00 <vol> testing
Nov 18 23:17:04 <infobot> vol meant: :>
Nov 18 23:17:04 <vol> ah.
Nov 18 23:17:05 <rwhitby> Lieutenant: there are at least three different sites that are logging this channel
Nov 18 23:17:13 <rwhitby> !logs
Nov 18 23:17:13 <Cedric2> s/request/requested/
Nov 18 23:17:30 <rwhitby> Cedric2: it also only works on the last thing you said
Nov 18 23:17:40 <vol> s/\./!/
Nov 18 23:17:40 <Cedric2> infobot is a bit braindead
Nov 18 23:17:49 <Cedric2> s/a bit/very/
Nov 18 23:17:49 <infobot> Cedric2 meant: infobot is very braindead
Nov 18 23:17:50 * Cedric2 rests his case
Nov 18 23:18:50 <Lieutenant> oh i see.
Nov 18 23:18:52 <Lieu10ant> im typing on my G1!
Nov 18 23:19:18 <Disconnect> i'm typing on my wii!
Nov 18 23:19:19 <Disconnect> ..wait, thats not right.
Nov 18 23:19:19 <Disconnect> s/on/with/
Nov 18 23:19:27 <Disconnect> i'm typing -with- my wii. thats more like it.
Nov 18 23:21:10 <P1ro> have anyone any clue if the wifi of the G1 can support injection ?
Nov 18 23:21:29 <jasta> hey dougie
Nov 18 23:21:29 <Dougie187> Hey
Nov 18 23:21:33 <Dougie187> hows it going?
Nov 18 23:21:42 <jasta> good, doing some tweaking :)
Nov 18 23:21:46 <jasta> squashing little bugs
Nov 18 23:21:46 <RyeBrye> armooo - interesting. Sounds like they are doing something clever / tricky in that app
Nov 18 23:21:46 <Dougie187> nice
Nov 18 23:21:47 <Dougie187> bugs deserve to be squashed
Nov 18 23:21:47 <Disconnect> RyeBrye: app?
Nov 18 23:21:56 <RyeBrye> http://waxy.org/2008/11/deconstructing_google_mobiles_voice_search_on_the_iphone/
Nov 18 23:22:56 <Disconnect> cool
Nov 18 23:22:56 <RyeBrye> armooo  - I just sent that link to a friend who is a PhD in information theory. If anyone can pick apart what kind of data can be sent in those files, he might be able to... if he feels like it
Nov 18 23:23:17 <Dougie187> jasta: what app are you working on now? Still email? or back to five?
Nov 18 23:28:02 <Leeds> well, a night of charging didn't seem to help
Nov 18 23:28:11 <jasta> Dougie187: back to five
Nov 18 23:28:20 <jasta> been aggressively changing the UI and polishing
Nov 18 23:28:20 <Dougie187> awesome, you get everything done on email that you wanted?
Nov 18 23:28:25 <jasta> not quite yet, i need to revisit and squash a few bugs soon
Nov 18 23:28:27 <jasta> and finish separating the processes
Nov 18 23:28:28 <Dougie187> thats cool.
Nov 18 23:28:37 <Dougie187> at least you have a game plan
Nov 18 23:29:16 <RyeBrye> How does sqlite perform on the G1? - Would a table with 2k rows be ok?
Nov 18 23:29:59 <RyeBrye> I know it's dependent on the tables, but something with say - a dozen columns of varchar data
Nov 18 23:30:44 <vol> I'm sure that's just fine.
Nov 18 23:30:44 <RyeBrye> i.e. order by operations... etc
Nov 18 23:31:07 <RyeBrye> Yeah, someone said they brought the G1 to its knees importing 1200 bookmarks, so that made me wonder - but I can't imagine 2k rows being too hard
Nov 18 23:31:22 <vol> yeah, I think that involves complicated parsing more than sql
Nov 18 23:31:38 <vol> you have to load up an XML parsing engine, etc.
Nov 18 23:31:51 <vol> you could always just try it.
Nov 18 23:32:17 <RyeBrye> Oh, yeah - I will have to parse XML to populate my sqllite db - but I assume that will take effort - but that's the reason why I'd use the Db woudl be to avoid having to reparse that file again
Nov 18 23:32:26 <vol> for(int i = 0; i < 2000; i++) { sqlStatement = "INSERT INTO FOO('x','" + i + "');"; }
Nov 18 23:32:27 * RyeBrye is tinkering with a geocaching app that would handle large sets of the gpx pocket query files
Nov 18 23:33:15 <RyeBrye> I'm hoping that I can be lazy and use XMLBeans with decent performance to import it all - since xmlbeans takes all of 30 seconds to generate really nice typed objects that get pulled from the xml when they are requested
Nov 18 23:33:43 <RyeBrye> well, xmlbeans takes not 30 seconds to do it - but it takes 30 seconds to set up an xmlbeans based parser
Nov 18 23:35:45 <Disconnect> importing bookmarks?
Nov 18 23:37:05 <gambler__> RyeBrye, there is a lib called XStream which does that and is really nice to use
Nov 18 23:37:19 <RyeBrye> gambler__ - I'll look at that one - is it android specific?
Nov 18 23:37:47 <gambler__> no just java
Nov 18 23:38:26 <RyeBrye> gambler__ - does it generate it all from an .xsd file? that's what I like about xmlbeans... you point it at the xsd files and you are basically done
Nov 18 23:39:40 <gambler__> RyeBrye, from the object
Nov 18 23:40:00 <Lieutenant> can i download .jar games for the G1 or no?
Nov 18 23:40:00 <gambler__> it might do that too but I havent checked it out
Nov 18 23:40:13 <gambler__> Lieutenant, no
Nov 18 23:40:14 <RyeBrye> gambler__ - oh, gotcha. I'm in the opposite situation. I have an existing XML I Just need to suck data from
Nov 18 23:41:05 <Lieutenant> k
Nov 18 23:41:12 <Disconnect> Lieutenant: yes kinda. j2me runner app runs them
Nov 18 23:41:17 <Lieutenant> oh, i see.
Nov 18 23:41:27 <Lieutenant> cause i was lookin at the G2 phone
Nov 18 23:41:42 <Lieutenant> and it said it could run .jar apps
Nov 18 23:41:54 <Disconnect> what said? cuz it lied. that app lets you kinda run them but its not great.
Nov 18 23:42:08 <Lieutenant> or something like that.
Nov 18 23:42:08 <Leeds> the G2 is a China special, vapourware for now
Nov 18 23:42:21 <Lieutenant> http://www.mysciphone.com/G2Specia.asp
Nov 18 23:42:27 <Disconnect> oh g2 not g1. yah.
Nov 18 23:42:29 <Lieutenant> yeah
Nov 18 23:42:34 <Disconnect> its got no kb except android doesn't support onscreen kb. so.....
Nov 18 23:42:45 <Disconnect> yah good luck with that.
Nov 18 23:42:57 <Lieutenant> lol
Nov 18 23:43:00 <Disconnect> and isn't it supposed to be super cheap?
Nov 18 23:44:02 <Disconnect> "Google Search, Google Maps, Gmail, YouTube, Google SMS, GOOG-411,Blogger, Google Calendar, Picasa Web Albums, Google Notebook, Google Reader, Google Docs, Google News, iGoogle"
Nov 18 23:44:02 <Lieutenant> no clue
Nov 18 23:44:02 <Disconnect> great. so it ships with a browser.
Nov 18 23:44:12 <Disconnect> and a list of apps from google labs.
Nov 18 23:44:20 <Lieutenant> even better, it has Google Docs!! when is G1 getting those?
Nov 18 23:44:27 <Disconnect> and google chrome. wow. its not just vaporware its totally crack-addled
Nov 18 23:44:27 <Lieutenant> pissing me off....
Nov 18 23:44:50 <Disconnect> and office docs
Nov 18 23:45:00 <Disconnect> android "home edition" ahhahaha this thing is such a joke, the farther i read the better it gets
Nov 18 23:45:02 <Lieutenant> yeah, why does it seem like it has so much more functionality than our G1's ?
Nov 18 23:45:18 <Lieutenant> whaa?
Nov 18 23:45:47 <Lieutenant> u don't like that it has google chrome, google docs and reads microsoft office documents?
Nov 18 23:45:59 <Lieutenant> and a 4 megapixel camera!
Nov 18 23:46:20 <Disconnect> http://www.mysciphone.com/G2Accessories.asp
Nov 18 23:46:22 <Disconnect> don't forget to downdload some drivers
Nov 18 23:46:32 <spikebike> Lieutenant gdocs doesn't work with the g1
Nov 18 23:47:01 <spikebike> but yeah I'd expect incoherent engrish with a chinese phone
Nov 18 23:47:11 <Lieutenant> i knwo it doesn't work with the G1, but it works on the G2. i was wondering why it doesn't work on the G1.
Nov 18 23:47:42 <Disconnect> ..because the g2 is made of crack and fairies and the g1 is made of actual hardware.
Nov 18 23:47:50 <spikebike> I suspect it might work if I faked the agent
Nov 18 23:47:51 <spikebike> true
Nov 18 23:47:55 <Disconnect> same reason the g2 can play duke nukem forever and the g1 can't.
Nov 18 23:48:19 <Lieutenant> shouldn't google be making a google docs app for the g1 or what are they thinking about that? does anyone know anything about it?
Nov 18 23:48:35 <spikebike> or at least a compatible website
Nov 18 23:48:57 <Disconnect> right now they're more interested in making basic things like email and camera work.
Nov 18 23:48:57 <Lieutenant> yeah :(
Nov 18 23:49:18 <spikebike> seems like chrome basically means they are looking to avoid apps on devices
Nov 18 23:49:32 <spikebike> gears + webapps seems to be the direction
Nov 18 23:49:34 <spikebike> (i.e. chrome)
Nov 18 23:52:27 <Leeds> Lieutenant: I'd be happy if my G1 booted...
Nov 18 23:52:33 <spikebike> oh leeds I had to sleep..
Nov 18 23:52:39 <spikebike> any news?
Nov 18 23:52:40 <Leeds> no change :-(
Nov 18 23:52:57 <spikebike> won't boot without SD?
Nov 18 23:53:02 <Leeds> won't boot full stop (period)
Nov 18 23:53:09 <spikebike> recovery mode?
Nov 18 23:53:42 <Leeds> with SD, without SD, with SIM, without SIM, not recovery mode, no safe mode... it'll go to the HTC bootloader, or stick on the G1 logo - and that's it
Nov 18 23:54:19 <spikebike> where did you get the phone?  Can you return it?
Nov 18 23:54:48 <Leeds> got it from a semi-dodgy shop... will be taking it back there today, expecting a painful argument
Nov 18 23:55:02 <spikebike> leeds keep me posted
Nov 18 23:55:29 <RyeBrye> Leeds - did you get root on it or anything?
Nov 18 23:55:38 <cbeust_> Not sure how they could argue in front of a phone that doesn't boot
Nov 18 23:55:38 <Leeds> RyeBrye: sure I did
Nov 18 23:55:55 <Leeds> cbeust_: it's a very gray import... they might try to argue I've had it more than a week, it's not their problem, for example
Nov 18 23:56:01 <RyeBrye> Leeds - it it a T-mobile US phone?
Nov 18 23:56:06 <cbeust_> Oh it's not in the US?
Nov 18 23:56:22 <Leeds> it's a T-Mobile US phone, but I'm in Hong Kong
Nov 18 23:56:34 <RyeBrye> Leeds - did you do anything to screw it up?
Nov 18 23:56:37 <cbeust_> Ah ok, might be more tricky indeed
Nov 18 23:56:51 <cbeust_> It never worked or you altered it?
Nov 18 23:56:51 <Leeds> RyeBrye: nope
Nov 18 23:56:56 <Leeds> it worked fine for a week, I rebooted it yesterday and it didn't come back up
Nov 18 23:57:10 <RyeBrye> Leeds - will it boot into the android recovery mode? Power + Home button?
Nov 18 23:57:23 <Leeds> <Leeds> with SD, without SD, with SIM, without SIM, not recovery mode, no safe mode... it'll go to the HTC bootloader, or stick on the G1 logo - and that's it
Nov 18 23:57:47 <Leeds> I think the only way to fix it is going to be reflashing from the bootloader
Nov 18 23:58:01 <RyeBrye> You will need to get a signed .NBH file to do that
Nov 18 23:58:22 <RyeBrye> at least, that's how other HTC phones work
Nov 18 23:58:31 <spikebike> think the store has that?
Nov 18 23:58:55 <Leeds> no chance
Nov 18 23:59:00 <RyeBrye> I don't even know if T-mobile US stores have that
Nov 18 23:59:04 <RyeBrye> HTC likely has that
Nov 18 23:59:04 <spikebike> doesn't hurt to ask
Nov 18 23:59:08 <Leeds> they'll have to send it back up their supply chain
Nov 18 23:59:31 <Leeds> spikebike: it's a tiny little stacked-to-the-ceiling phone store in a mall full of them, there isn't a chance in hell they can fix it themselves
Nov 18 23:59:32 <spikebike> although to be honest
Nov 18 23:59:53 <spikebike> seems like there might be a fault in the phone
Nov 18 23:59:53 <spikebike> it shouldn't just "do" that
Nov 19 00:00:05 <Leeds> there was a suggestion last night that I should contact HTC in Hong Kong and ask them for help
Nov 19 00:00:23 <spikebike> is there a way to boot it so the green android is more like a traditional linux boot?
Nov 19 00:00:46 <RyeBrye> if the green android shows up at all, you can get to adb logcat to read stuff
Nov 19 00:00:50 <Leeds> if I could get to console, great - but I can't
Nov 19 00:01:17 <spikebike> ah, sounds like a good start
Nov 19 00:01:22 <Leeds> the green android does not show
Nov 19 00:01:50 <spikebike> oh, sorry, I thought you said it did
Nov 19 00:03:33 <Leeds> HTC bootloader or big G1 logo - that's all
Nov 19 00:04:57 <wastrel> my wife called me 3x today and my phone didn't ring
Nov 19 00:05:06 <wastrel> phone calls work better on verizon :p
Nov 19 00:05:11 <RyeBrye> wastrel - funny... when your wife called me 3x today the phone rang just fine
Nov 19 00:05:33 <RyeBrye> ;)
Nov 19 00:05:33 <wastrel> ah great we're looking for someone to babysit
Nov 19 00:05:37 <wastrel> are you available
Nov 19 00:05:37 <RyeBrye> I didn't say I answered! :)
Nov 19 00:05:42 <Leeds> I tried to use that excuse yesterday when not answering the phone to my boss... strangely enough, it didn't work
Nov 19 00:05:44 * RyeBrye runs and hides
Nov 19 00:06:08 <Disconnect> Leeds: email him a pic of your junk, tell him its a weird iphone bug.
Nov 19 00:06:17 <Leeds> hah
Nov 19 00:06:30 <Lieu10ant> thats just gross
Nov 19 00:07:19 <Disconnect> http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=1786497
Nov 19 00:08:03 <Lieu10ant> dont load
Nov 19 00:09:03 <Disconnect> get a real computer
Nov 19 00:23:05 <RyeBrye> Somone submitted that multitouch article to digg :) http://digg.com/gadgets/Proving_the_G1_screen_can_handle_multi_touch
Nov 19 00:23:14 * RyeBrye shamelessly plugs it and asks for diggs - then shuts up about it
Nov 19 00:24:45 * ttuttle logs in and Diggs.
Nov 19 00:25:29 <RyeBrye> thanks :)
Nov 19 00:25:29 <ttuttle> RyeBrye: np
Nov 19 00:25:34 <RyeBrye> http://arstechnica.com/journals/linux.ars/2008/11/18/blogger-android-capable-of-multi-touch has a good summary of it too - I like them
Nov 19 00:25:48 * RyeBrye goes to tend crying baby
Nov 19 00:26:03 <ttuttle> RyeBrye: awww
Nov 19 00:33:05 <herriojr> so, does the intent filter <intent-filter><action android:name="android.intent.action.DATA_SMS_RECEIVED"></intent-filter> not work?  I noticed the intent is built with a Uri, is there anything I need to do to receive it in reference to it?
Nov 19 00:36:50 <herriojr> ok, to put it in another way, what exactly does Intent(String action, Uri uri) do?  I mean, what exactly does the uri have to do with the intent?
Nov 19 00:37:34 <jasta> it tells android what application to open to handle the uri and action.
Nov 19 00:37:41 <jasta> based on the intent-filters that have been registered
Nov 19 00:38:16 <Disconnect> how do i get a useful id out of simplecursoradapter? no matter which row i click i get id=0
Nov 19 00:38:21 <herriojr> jasta: do you mean it tells a content-provider to handle it?
Nov 19 00:38:25 <jasta> Disconnect: does your cursor select a column with the literal name _id?
Nov 19 00:38:25 <jasta> herriojr: no.
Nov 19 00:38:27 <Disconnect> its about to. :)
Nov 19 00:39:11 <Disconnect> ...ok it does already. :(
Nov 19 00:39:58 <herriojr> because port directed sms's throw the Intent: new Intent("android.intent.action.DATA_SMS_RECEIVED", "sms://localhost:port"); and I'm trying to figure out which app gets called for it
Nov 19 00:41:30 <jasta> herriojr: then somewhere some context is saying it handles the sms scheme, and the DATA_SMS_RECEIVED action...
Nov 19 00:41:35 <jasta> or it doesn't, perhaps :)
Nov 19 00:41:43 <jasta> it could be either an IntentReceiver or an Activity handling that.  in this case, i'd bet it's an IntentReceiver
Nov 19 00:41:48 <herriojr> how do I say in my manifest that I support the action with the scheme?
Nov 19 00:41:48 <herriojr> I guess that's my question
Nov 19 00:41:48 <jasta> just like you'd think.  make an intent-filter.
Nov 19 00:42:11 <jasta> look at just about any random AndroidManifest.xml in the source tree or in apps-for-android and look for IntentReceivers ;)
Nov 19 00:42:25 <herriojr> I made this and it didn't catch it: <intent-filter><action android:name="android.intent.action.DATA_SMS_RECEIVED"/></intent-filter> and it didn't get fired
Nov 19 00:42:50 <jasta> add <scheme> or whatever it is
Nov 19 00:42:50 <herriojr> so I'm wondering what I'm supposed to do with the Uri
Nov 19 00:42:50 <herriojr> ok
Nov 19 00:43:59 <jasta> it's <data android:scheme="" /> i think
Nov 19 00:44:05 <jasta> look at really just about any app in the source :)
Nov 19 00:44:41 <jasta> like for instance...
Nov 19 00:44:42 <jasta>             <intent-filter>
Nov 19 00:44:42 <jasta>                 <action android:name="android.intent.action.CALL" />
Nov 19 00:44:42 <jasta>                 <category android:name="android.intent.category.DEFAULT" />
Nov 19 00:44:42 <jasta>                 <data android:scheme="tel" />
Nov 19 00:44:42 <jasta>             </intent-filter>
Nov 19 00:44:42 <jasta> which i found in the Phone app
Nov 19 00:55:10 <mouseclone> because I'm having trouble finding it I thought that I might come here.  I'm running linux and adb devices doesn't show any devices listed.  What am I doing wrong
Nov 19 00:55:58 <armooo> mouseclone: take a look at http://code.google.com/android/intro/develop-and-debug.html#developingondevicehardware
Nov 19 00:59:28 <mouseclone> armooo: thank you very much for the link
Nov 19 00:59:54 <mouseclone> adb devices shows the device
Nov 19 01:05:47 <herriojr> jasta: doesn't work
Nov 19 01:37:45 <herriojr> jasta: ok, it actually seems to be failing on the sending-side of things, it never calls my PendingIntent
Nov 19 01:55:17 <herriojr> what's the apk mime type?
Nov 19 01:55:21 <herriojr> jasta: btw, for some reason it all just started working
Nov 19 02:00:38 <herriojr> actually, I think the issue was that I was specifying my own phone number in the from address instead of using null
Nov 19 02:04:34 <KNY> herriojr, application/vnd.android.package-archive
Nov 19 02:05:03 <raidfive> anyone know why this would return null: getContentResolver().insert(MediaStore.Audio.Media.EXTERNAL_CONTENT_URI, values);
Nov 19 02:05:08 <raidfive> works fine with MediaStore.Video and MediaStore.Images
Nov 19 02:06:47 <KNY> anyone know why I would get this: "bash: ./adb: No such file or directory" when trying to run adb?
Nov 19 02:07:21 <jbq> KNY: how about
Nov 19 02:07:25 <jbq> "ls -l adb"
Nov 19 02:08:45 <KNY> jbq, no, it's definitely there
Nov 19 02:08:45 <KNY> -rwxrwxrwx 1 KNY KNY 299220 2008-09-22 16:45 adb
Nov 19 02:09:14 <jbq> very interestingly odd :(
Nov 19 02:09:23 <KNY> jbq, yeah
Nov 19 02:09:23 <KNY> oh wait, crap
Nov 19 02:09:23 <KNY> I need some 32-bit wrapper
Nov 19 02:11:16 <KNY> jbq, yeah, I forgot to install ia32-libs. I suck
Nov 19 02:13:53 <romainguy_> umdk1d3: congrats :)
Nov 19 02:19:01 <heat> bleh.. rebase, repatch, rebuild
Nov 19 02:19:16 <tech9iner> anyone else note if one is creating new contacts & receives calls.. poof.. goes the mid completed contact data? rc30 here
Nov 19 02:21:11 <tech9iner> similarly found one needs to press right keys when creating notes with the note pad app too.. g1's not quite the hero on writing incomplete data in some specific areas.. gives no warning etc.
Nov 19 02:22:46 * tech9iner still seeks some path to full android system & data backup to cloud | laptop | SOmething.. ;]]
Nov 19 02:23:41 * Leeds still seeks path to bootable device
Nov 19 02:24:07 <tech9iner> how many times you going to ask that tech9iner? [ in lieu of d03boy ;]]
Nov 19 02:24:10 <tech9iner> i gotchur back d03boy
Nov 19 02:24:43 <KNY> tech9iner, I believe that the application author is supposed to handle that in onSaveInstanceState
Nov 19 02:25:19 <KNY> or onPause()/onResume()
Nov 19 02:25:36 <tech9iner> thanks KNY .. given the apropos opportunity i will share your terminology with said author..
Nov 19 02:25:37 <tech9iner> *term(s) | references
Nov 19 02:26:05 <herriojr> so, what's the difference between android:path and android:scheme in the data attribute in the manifest....or rather, what's the differente between a data authority and data scheme?
Nov 19 02:26:57 * tech9iner may be swapping his hourly notation needs to the read about toodo app anyway.. 
Nov 19 02:26:58 <herriojr> I'm trying to make a port-directed sms listener, and I can only seem to listen to all ports and not just a specific one
Nov 19 02:27:55 <Leeds> wtf is a port-directed sms listener anyway???
Nov 19 02:27:55 <thesquib> Is it possible with db.exec to insert a blob of data?
Nov 19 02:28:16 <herriojr> Leeds: you only receive data from a specific port
Nov 19 02:28:38 <herriojr> I tried android:path="sms://localhost:6124" and that doesn't work
Nov 19 02:28:49 <herriojr> the only thing I can get to work is android:scheme="sms"
Nov 19 02:28:49 <Leeds> herriojr: yes, and what does that mean in the context of SMS?
Nov 19 02:29:32 <bert0> Will flash 10 on Android run pandora radio?
Nov 19 02:29:40 <herriojr> sms is by default sent to a specific port
Nov 19 02:29:49 <herriojr> which is received by the sms application
Nov 19 02:30:15 <herriojr> so, if I don't want it to be handled by the sms application, I send it to a different port
Nov 19 02:30:15 <herriojr> and I'm assuming you know what ports are
Nov 19 02:30:24 <herriojr> anyways,  Ihave to go
Nov 19 02:30:24 <herriojr> and I don't think I'm going to get the answer
Nov 19 02:31:08 <Leeds> I know what ports are in a tcp/udp context
Nov 19 02:31:09 * ttuttle didn't know SMS had ports.
Nov 19 02:31:32 <Leeds> neither did I, which is why I was asking
Nov 19 02:31:47 <Disconnect> bert0: perhaps you should ask after anyone at all outside adobe has access to it.
Nov 19 02:31:47 <herriojr> it makes it so it doesn't notify the users
Nov 19 02:32:03 <herriojr> so you can have a server start things on the device without the user being able to see the messages
Nov 19 02:32:43 <herriojr> http://code.google.com/android/reference/android/telephony/gsm/SmsManager.html#sendDataMessage(java.lang.String, java.lang.String, short, byte[], android.app.PendingIntent, android.app.PendingIntent)
Nov 19 02:38:15 <Leeds> seriously, where in the PDU is there a port number?
Nov 19 02:38:43 <bert0> What is the best place to get large capacity micro SD cards?
Nov 19 02:46:52 <Disconnect> bert0: the internet
Nov 19 02:49:00 <fnordg1> Leeds: apc?
Nov 19 02:49:01 <Leeds> fnordg1: ?
Nov 19 02:49:18 <fnordg1> Leeds: what kindof pdu?
Nov 19 02:49:31 <Leeds> fnordg1: herriojr is asserting that SMSs are (or can be?) delivered to a specific port number
Nov 19 02:49:48 <fnordg1> oh wrong kind of pdu heh
Nov 19 02:50:07 <Leeds> what sort of pdu were you thinking of?
Nov 19 02:50:13 <fnordg1> i don't think sms is delivered over tcpip?
Nov 19 02:50:46 <Leeds> no, it's delivered as a GSM packet
Nov 19 02:59:53 <exmac> anybody know how to debug the source code using eclipse?
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Wed Nov 19 02:59:57 2008