**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat Dec 06 02:59:57 2008 Dec 06 02:59:59 AUGH Dec 06 03:00:05 "We regret to inform developers that SDK 1.0_r2 does not support MFM, RLL, or Winchester hard disk drives." Dec 06 03:00:09 Google is using BrightStar to distribute the phones! Dec 06 03:00:09 Leeds: eek Developer Registration Fee Dec 06 03:00:11 eugene: including shipping? Dec 06 03:00:36 They were the same company OLPC used to distribute the Give One Get One laptops last year. Dec 06 03:00:40 It took *months* for some to arrive! Dec 06 03:00:42 Leeds: no. i'm trying to register via the android market site. i have to pay for my registration first.. Dec 06 03:00:43 oops Dec 06 03:00:56 * ttuttle hopes it goes better for Google. Dec 06 03:01:03 yeah, my olpc took forever too. heh Dec 06 03:01:13 JesusFreke: Mine came a little after Christmas. Dec 06 03:01:19 JesusFreke: It's got bad RAM now somehow :\ Dec 06 03:01:23 mine was sometime in January.. Dec 06 03:01:28 Leeds: yeah I was broken up about that Dec 06 03:01:30 I was like Dec 06 03:01:39 "How am I supposed to use this old Winchester here?" Dec 06 03:01:40 Leeds: heh, pay USD$25 before checking out the shipping cost is not wise. Dec 06 03:01:53 SO are the the dev phones going to be functionally different than a modded G1? Dec 06 03:01:56 eugene: give me a minute, let me sign up Dec 06 03:02:10 Or is that unclear? Dec 06 03:02:16 wait, dev phones? Dec 06 03:02:19 bgupta: the bootloader on the devphones does not enforce signed images Dec 06 03:02:21 (BTW - I'm glad they are releasing them) Dec 06 03:02:22 RyeBrye: Yeah. Dec 06 03:02:25 http://code.google.com/android/dev-devices.html Dec 06 03:02:35 RyeBrye: $399, they're just G1s with a different (AWESOME!) back cover, and unlocked to the max. Dec 06 03:02:39 * morrildl whines Dec 06 03:02:39 eugene, whats the url for the android market? Dec 06 03:02:43 Why is no one talking about hte SDK?! Dec 06 03:02:55 this is more fun. Dec 06 03:03:02 ;) Dec 06 03:03:11 morrildl: What's been updates? Dec 06 03:03:12 *updated Dec 06 03:03:15 morrildl: Isn't the new SDK a regression? Dec 06 03:03:15 SDK? pfft. we have a new dev phone to drool over :D Dec 06 03:03:25 ttuttle: couple future-proof bugfixes Dec 06 03:03:29 IE: THey removed functionality? Dec 06 03:03:40 morrildl: Ah. Dec 06 03:03:41 bgupta: well, we made it compliant with the Java language spec Dec 06 03:04:02 but technically yes we removed the ability to access private/protected methods via Reflection, which was a bug Dec 06 03:04:09 "Unlike the bootloader on retail devices, the bootloader on the Android Dev Phone 1 does not enforce signed system images" Bah. give us a week or two and we'll fix that Dec 06 03:04:20 RyeBrye: Um... Dec 06 03:04:27 RyeBrye: You've had a bit of time already. Dec 06 03:04:37 RyeBrye: But lemme know when it's done. Dec 06 03:04:38 hehe... well once one dev phone hits the street, I suspect all modded G1s will become devphones. Dec 06 03:05:03 bgupta: unlikely, without hooking up directly to the flash part Dec 06 03:05:13 oh... Dec 06 03:05:22 * ttuttle should start a service flashing unlocked bootloaders on G1s for devs. Dec 06 03:05:30 * sparkle chuckles Dec 06 03:05:34 (I would, but I'm considering working for Google in the future.) Dec 06 03:05:49 also, incidentally, this is the first time I've used google checkout Dec 06 03:05:51 ttuttle: San will hunt you down and beat you if he thought you actually had what you would need to do that :) Dec 06 03:05:52 khert: http://market.android.com/publish Dec 06 03:06:02 morrildl: Um, I have an unlocked phone. Dec 06 03:06:11 morrildl: I'd need to obtain some sort of JTAG or whatever-the-phone-uses interface. Dec 06 03:06:18 in 5 minutes flat I could get enough information from his phone to get what I needed to do that Dec 06 03:06:20 morrildl: Once I had that, I could slurp my image and write it on others. Dec 06 03:06:21 yup Dec 06 03:06:27 morrildl: But that's an NDA violation. Dec 06 03:06:27 I'm almost postive it wont require jtag Dec 06 03:06:30 eugene, cool, thnx Dec 06 03:06:30 morrildl: And a jerk move. Dec 06 03:06:35 morrildl: And slimy. Dec 06 03:06:41 I can't remember if JTag is enabled on the production devices Dec 06 03:06:42 RyeBrye: How would you do it, without running code as root? Dec 06 03:06:48 but hypothetically that would work yeah Dec 06 03:06:48 morrildl: Ooh, tricky ;) Dec 06 03:07:21 RyeBrye probably CAN run code as root, on a modified RC30 Dec 06 03:07:35 It's probably under that little sticker that says "VOID: Dec 06 03:07:37 * ttuttle would flash his phone back to unmodded RC30, just to make it harder :P Dec 06 03:08:11 well... I'm not so sure that would really matter in your case - since I could just fastboot it and replace it with whatever I wanted Dec 06 03:08:15 Anyone taken a G1 apart yet? Dec 06 03:08:58 That's good news about the dev phones though - definitely a step in the right direction Dec 06 03:09:35 I bet that announcement pisses off a lot of developers...and makes a lot more happy. Dec 06 03:09:38 RyeBrye: Dev phones gives me hope. Dec 06 03:10:15 does that mean people will stop moaning that the G1 is locked down even though Android is meant to be open? Dec 06 03:10:18 Yeah, the dev phone will be cool. there are a few T-mobile G1's out there that have engineering bootloaders on them by accident Dec 06 03:10:19 morrildl: Many of us feel that we shouldn't have to go through contortions to instlall custom firmware... Dec 06 03:10:51 BUt we understand why carrier partners might get sniffy about it. Dec 06 03:11:04 The one guy who I know who has one has probably been snipered or something - because he's nowhere to be found now that we have a method to dump / reflash the bootloader easily Dec 06 03:11:32 bgupta: it doesn't really have much to do with carrier partners. It's just a security thing. We don't want evil people phishing users into putting a firmware image onto /sdcard and reflashing. Dec 06 03:11:33 I suspect dev phones are gonna be surprisingly popular in the dev community.... Dec 06 03:11:58 Granted that that's kind of an unlikely sequence of events.... Dec 06 03:13:02 morrildl... You could have a lock that you have to go through slight gyrations to get through.. IE: unlock the feature deep in settings.. Dec 06 03:13:23 I think that kind of thing would happen on the hacked iPhones first Dec 06 03:14:25 They need to have a dev phone subscription program :) for $X per year you get a new dev phone every time one comes out Dec 06 03:14:27 I just feel real bad for my Linux buddies who upgraded to rc30 without knowing the full deal. Dec 06 03:14:31 like jelly of the month club, only better :) Dec 06 03:14:40 lol... sign me up please. Dec 06 03:14:41 shipping cost to singapore for a devphone: $119.36 Dec 06 03:14:46 yikes Dec 06 03:14:49 that's quite a lot Dec 06 03:14:57 in fact, that's fscking ridiculous Dec 06 03:14:58 * Acidulous is one of those who went to RC30 unknowingly Dec 06 03:15:20 sorry acidulous. :( Dec 06 03:15:33 I almost did.. but I came back from the brink just in time Dec 06 03:15:48 I'm sure eventually we'll have a way to re-root RC30's to another version... it's being looked into Dec 06 03:16:06 I was stuck on RC19 so long, I was overexcited when I finally got an update, and it shot straight to RC30 before I had heard about it Dec 06 03:16:19 RyeBrye: if you find one, please just tell us first so we can fix it for end users before it gets into the wild :) Dec 06 03:16:33 making the cost for a devphone, shipped to Singapore: $399+$119+$25... not much different from the $560 or so I paid for mine Dec 06 03:16:39 yeah, well, it would seem likely there is an official way to do it... that is very obscured.. Dec 06 03:16:48 If the Dev Phone comes with a spec sheet for the MSM7201A - I'd buy another Dec 06 03:17:02 RyeBrye: software dev, not hardware, I think Dec 06 03:17:07 Yeah, I know :) Dec 06 03:17:18 I have to have something to bitch about :) Dec 06 03:17:25 Anyone know the specs for the dev phone? IE: What 3G US freqs will it support T-Mobile or ATT? Dec 06 03:17:47 bgupta: same as the G1. i.e. global (T-Mobile) 3G freqs Dec 06 03:18:03 Figured as much... Dec 06 03:18:16 WHat I want right now is a CDMA G1... Dec 06 03:18:37 okay well Dec 06 03:18:42 now I get to go home Dec 06 03:18:52 "My work here is finished." Dec 06 03:18:54 Wait. I thought googlers lived at google? Dec 06 03:18:59 No, we only eat here Dec 06 03:19:06 (I have SPrint and T-Mobile accounts).. Dec 06 03:19:13 I'm told there actually is a policy that says you can't be on-site for more than like 48 hours at once Dec 06 03:19:14 LOL.. have a good one.. Dec 06 03:19:16 personally I have never tested it Dec 06 03:19:30 thanks for the updates. Dec 06 03:19:34 morrildl: It'd be pretty sweet if the policy said 48 hours in a single day - to prevent against time travel and such Dec 06 03:19:46 RyeBrye: hahahaha, that would indeed rock Dec 06 03:19:51 gotta boogie Dec 06 03:19:54 morrildl: have a good weekend Dec 06 03:19:56 oops :-) Dec 06 03:20:07 How soon until dev phones ship? Dec 06 03:20:38 Hey RyeBrye: Aren't the MSM7201A specs relatively public? Dec 06 03:21:11 bgupta: big block diagrams are - but nothing more than that Dec 06 03:21:24 anyone in the US want to start a side business shipping unlocked G1s for less than $stupid shipping cost? :-) Dec 06 03:21:33 I guess I want the data sheet too Dec 06 03:21:45 Leeds: I'd do it Dec 06 03:22:02 I'm sure you would... Dec 06 03:22:12 Leeds: Hmm... that does expose some kind of risk I suppose... so I'd have to have thugs in each country I shipped to to break kneecaps if I got stiffed somehow Dec 06 03:22:24 I can do thugging in HK! Dec 06 03:22:43 Business here in the states is a bit slow. I'm sure you could find half a dozen folks on this channel willing to start a side business. Dec 06 03:23:04 Leeds: start with thugging on some htc folks, get us the signing key. :) Dec 06 03:23:11 You want an unlocked G1? I could order one for you and get it shipped to me and then re-ship it to you if you want. I'd just ask that you gave me a couple hours with it to dump the important stuff off of it before I re-shipped it Dec 06 03:23:15 I'd keep all the plastic on it and stuff Dec 06 03:23:15 they're over there in Taiwan Dec 06 03:23:30 hi all Dec 06 03:23:31 oh they just launched the white G1... still like the plack one.. Dec 06 03:23:34 RyeBrye: I absolutely would if I didn't already have one... Dec 06 03:23:35 (don't listen to rye. he would steal the back cover :p) Dec 06 03:23:50 Nah, my back cover is already shiny with that skin cover on it Dec 06 03:23:52 JesusFreke: I'd sent *my* thugs to hunt him down Dec 06 03:24:07 shipping? Dec 06 03:24:17 i have 2 t-mobile stores within a block of my apartment Dec 06 03:24:20 I'd just ship via DHL international or something Dec 06 03:24:24 any good development book available online Dec 06 03:24:26 wastrel: for the dev phone Dec 06 03:24:30 wastrel: but those of us outside the US don't Dec 06 03:24:42 oic Dec 06 03:25:56 But apparently you have to pay the $25 to register as a developer before you can even order the phone Dec 06 03:26:07 and they only let you order 1 per account now to limit that aftermarket bit Dec 06 03:26:19 so it's really $399 + 25 + shipping Dec 06 03:26:23 ah, that's bad Dec 06 03:26:52 That limit is likely just for the launch Dec 06 03:26:52 RyeBrye: It may be shiny, but does it have this: http://android.brightstarcorp.com/images/placeholders/dev3.jpg (You missed it earlier) Dec 06 03:27:06 No, it doesn't have random polygons on it :( Dec 06 03:27:17 * Acidulous is gonna find someone to laser etch the dev cover design on his G1 Dec 06 03:27:27 "Hey, I think tron raped your phone." "No, I'm just a developer. I rape my own phone" Dec 06 03:27:40 this is me. :) this is me with random polygons. :( any questions? Dec 06 03:27:41 heh Dec 06 03:27:50 lol Dec 06 03:28:48 What is cool is that people who get shot down by T-mobile because of bad credit might be able to buy these from Google still Dec 06 03:28:53 disconnect must have had a traumatic experience with random polygons as a child. Dec 06 03:29:03 There was nothing random about them! Dec 06 03:29:21 Damn. I want that dev phone now. Dec 06 03:29:35 I also want to keep $399 in my own pocket. Dec 06 03:29:40 this is me. :) this is me watching tron. 8-)~~ Dec 06 03:30:20 and this is Disconnect in his "watching tron outfit" http://www.pinkgodzillagames.com/events/tron%20guy-thumb.jpg Dec 06 03:30:48 * Acidulous needs to learn not to oen random links Dec 06 03:30:49 ...ooh, burned by a unicycle rider. i'm mortally wounded. Dec 06 03:30:54 i would spend that $399 on a macbook pro Dec 06 03:31:00 RyeBrye: you're taking about 2 grand out of your pocket to keep a device you dont want. Dec 06 03:31:16 you should be :D Dec 06 03:31:21 unix_infidel: what? Dec 06 03:31:25 I realize I'm a little late to the party, but: Shazam is amazing Dec 06 03:31:30 shazam what now? Dec 06 03:31:34 offby1`: I agree Dec 06 03:31:55 RyeBrye: the G1. the cost of the G1 + contract is about 2 grand. Dec 06 03:32:00 Damn how annoying.. you can't buy a google devphone using Google checkout. Dec 06 03:32:14 lol Dec 06 03:32:27 unix_infidel: marginal cost isn't that much - since I would be paying about the same regardless of the phone I had Dec 06 03:34:00 wastrel: app what listens to a song, and then identifies it. Amazingly accurately. Dec 06 03:34:09 heh, funny business telecom contracts are. Dec 06 03:34:13 reasonably widespread commercial recordings only, but still. Dec 06 03:34:16 RyeBrye: funnier is i just bought a G1 yesterday ;-) Dec 06 03:34:22 unix_infidel: funny like the mob Dec 06 03:34:32 thinking about paying the 10 bucks to get rid of it ;-) Dec 06 03:34:33 unix_infidel: you can return yours though if you wanted to get this dev one Dec 06 03:34:57 unix_infidel: it has a $10 restocking fee? Most states have at least a 24 hour "I changed my mind" period on phone stuff Dec 06 03:35:00 Oh man.. gotta pay tax.. (I live in NY... not sure if it's because Brightstar or Google have office in NY). Dec 06 03:35:32 bgupta: did you have to pay the $25 to register as a dev to get to the page to buy it? Dec 06 03:35:45 what's special about the dev one? Dec 06 03:35:50 unlocked bootloader Dec 06 03:35:53 unix_infidel: You can always resell yours in the aftermarket... Yeah you have to pay the $25 Dec 06 03:36:02 unSIMlocked Dec 06 03:36:07 and sim unlock from the gitgo Dec 06 03:36:09 Oh, yeah, and sim unlocked Dec 06 03:36:11 sweet back cover.. :D Dec 06 03:36:20 Is the radio unlocked? :) Dec 06 03:36:26 who cares if it's unlocked with a backcover like that :p Dec 06 03:36:26 $400 is some serious dough Dec 06 03:36:39 RyeBrye: yes the radio is unlocked Dec 06 03:36:45 michaelnovakjr: same as G1 with no contract Dec 06 03:36:49 SanMehat: as in security unlocked or just sim unlocked? Dec 06 03:36:50 Well, for an unlocked unsibsidized phone, it's not ridiculous. Dec 06 03:36:55 RyeBrye: both Dec 06 03:36:56 JesusFreke: yea, i'll steal a backcover from someone :) Dec 06 03:36:56 both... Dec 06 03:36:59 RyeBrye: you can reflash it Dec 06 03:37:07 JesusFreke: sounds like a come-on ;) Dec 06 03:37:16 SanMehat: you can reflash the radio with code not signed by HTC / Qualcomm? :D Dec 06 03:37:16 SanMehat: is it basically just an unlocked g1? Dec 06 03:37:20 eh, i write applications, that's not totally necessary for me Dec 06 03:37:28 (form factor, etc) Dec 06 03:37:29 RyeBrye: oh i dont know about the radio side Dec 06 03:37:32 SanMehat: because I seem to remember even ttuttle's magic phone wasn't security unlocked Dec 06 03:37:41 (the radio side of it) Dec 06 03:37:42 Radio is the same Dec 06 03:37:44 RyeBrye: why would you want to? Dec 06 03:37:52 sparkle: if I saw a girl with a dev phone, I would certainly use that as a pickup line :D Dec 06 03:38:00 T-Mobile global freqs Dec 06 03:38:08 RyeBrye: actually nevermind, i don't really want to know :) Dec 06 03:38:14 RyeBrye: they're sim and flash unlocked Dec 06 03:38:14 SanMehat: I honestly have no clue :) Dec 06 03:38:16 haha Dec 06 03:38:41 SanMehat: but with an unlocked radio, you could probably do some funky stuff like GSM sniffing Dec 06 03:38:43 I wonder what's the holdup on CDMA android devices Dec 06 03:39:13 global demand? Dec 06 03:39:41 every time I see "CDMA", I think of the kodoma from Princess Mononoke. Dec 06 03:39:45 Well the have the GSM device out.. and SPrint was supposed to be a partner Dec 06 03:40:03 JesusFreke: sounds like a come-on ;) Dec 06 03:40:08 RyeBrye: like i said.. i dont want to know :) Dec 06 03:40:09 I whine because T-Mob has horrible coverage in my area Dec 06 03:40:10 erk Dec 06 03:40:14 lol Dec 06 03:40:35 and sprint is the only other carrier that has affordable data plans Dec 06 03:40:47 bgupta: $4 t-zones is pretty damn affordable Dec 06 03:40:50 sparkle: was that just a come-on to my come-on? :D Dec 06 03:40:59 bgupta: G1/HTC partner or Android partner? Dec 06 03:41:00 bgupta: put up your own tower Dec 06 03:41:28 i take it there was an announcement about the dev phones? Dec 06 03:41:32 yes. Dec 06 03:41:38 http://code.google.com/android/dev-devices.html Dec 06 03:41:45 ah cool Dec 06 03:42:00 the dev hones? what is this? Dec 06 03:42:08 SanMehat: No, but you just made one! ;) Dec 06 03:42:08 SanMehat: nah, we're just guessing all of a sudden :-P Dec 06 03:42:08 http://code.google.com/android/dev-devices.html Dec 06 03:42:10 lol :p Dec 06 03:42:24 how many times do I have to post the darn link? :p Dec 06 03:42:24 hahaha Dec 06 03:42:27 http://code.google.com/android/dev-devices.html Dec 06 03:42:30 * RyeBrye http://code.google.com/android/dev-devices.html Dec 06 03:42:37 yeah they look slick Dec 06 03:42:39 http://code.google.com/android/dev-devices.html ? Dec 06 03:42:42 infobot dev phones are phones that have magical powers Dec 06 03:42:42 RyeBrye: okay Dec 06 03:42:43 cut paste in connectbox is a pain! Dec 06 03:42:48 Basically a G1 with custom branding that can load unsigned custom firmware, and are sim unlicked. Dec 06 03:42:53 infobot what are dev phones? Dec 06 03:42:55 JesusFreke: what are you talking about? Dec 06 03:43:00 infobot dev phones are also discussed here: http://code.google.com/android/dev-devices.html Dec 06 03:43:00 okay, RyeBrye Dec 06 03:43:04 Fnordg1L At least it exists? Dec 06 03:43:08 infobot what are dev phones? Dec 06 03:43:09 bgupta: really? Dec 06 03:43:09 RyeBrye: what are you talking about? Dec 06 03:43:12 so Dec 06 03:43:15 infobot what is a dev phone Dec 06 03:43:15 RyeBrye: what are you talking about? Dec 06 03:43:26 infobot you don't handle whitespace very well, do you? Dec 06 03:43:27 official rootphones? Dec 06 03:43:39 Fnordg1: yes Dec 06 03:43:40 official rootphones... yeah.. Dec 06 03:43:41 yup Dec 06 03:43:55 official rootphones? <-- omg wut? :-O Dec 06 03:44:03 http://code.google.com/android/dev-devices.html Dec 06 03:44:03 :p Dec 06 03:44:05 maybe you should check out this link: http://code.google.com/android/dev-devices.html Dec 06 03:44:09 ha, beat ya :p Dec 06 03:44:12 official rootphones? <-- omg wut? :-O! Dec 06 03:44:16 http://code.google.com/android/dev-devices.html Dec 06 03:44:19 Yes, they really needed them if they expected people to actually work on the OS.. Dec 06 03:44:24 official rootphones? <-- omg wut? :-O!? Dec 06 03:44:24 Leeds: what's funny is you could've gotten an iPhone 3G for less than your G1 in HK but you went with the G1. Dec 06 03:44:26 http://code.google.com/android/dev-devices.html Dec 06 03:44:28 ;-) Dec 06 03:44:30 :p Dec 06 03:44:31 :p Dec 06 03:44:38 THe supply of rc29s was limited to say the least Dec 06 03:44:53 unix_infidel: no I couldn't - the Apple price for a iphone 3G is about $5600 Dec 06 03:44:55 infobot devphones have magical powers and will make all your wildest dreams come true. You can read about them here: http://code.google.com/android/dev-devices.html - in order to buy one, you have to pay a $25 to be in the "developer club" and then you can get into the back room where they keep them behind a curain of lava Dec 06 03:45:14 Leeds: 560? Dec 06 03:45:16 RyeBrye: "is" not "have" Dec 06 03:45:21 unix_infidel: HK$5600 Dec 06 03:45:24 Well the $25 isn't completely wasted if you plan to sell apps in the market Dec 06 03:45:33 or possibly "are" Dec 06 03:45:37 so yea, about the same as what you paid for the G1. Dec 06 03:45:49 infobot devphones is a phone with magical powers and will make all your wildest dreams come true. You can read about them here: http://code.google.com/android/dev-devices.html - in order to buy one, you have to pay a $25 to be in the "developer club" and then you can get into the back room where they keep them behind a curtain of lava. Dec 06 03:45:49 RyeBrye: okay Dec 06 03:46:01 Yeah, I know - I will pay it eventually Dec 06 03:46:03 ok so recovery:sbin/recovery makes no keychecks basically? Dec 06 03:46:03 no, I paid about $4400 - before trade-in, which I couldn't have done with an iphone - as opposed to $5600... quite a difference Dec 06 03:46:08 I just have no apps now to put in the market Dec 06 03:46:12 Fnordg1: yes Dec 06 03:46:24 is nice! Dec 06 03:46:30 Fnordg1: According to a Google dev on earlier, yeah. Dec 06 03:46:37 infobot tell RyeBrye about devphones Dec 06 03:46:40 i dunno, i have a little under 2 weeks to figure out if i want to keep the G1 ;-) Dec 06 03:46:51 honestly, being able to tether the thing is worth more than the iPhone already. Dec 06 03:46:58 unix_infidel: How much did you pay for it? Dec 06 03:47:12 bgupta: it was a gift. Dec 06 03:47:27 probably retail, but they might've had a gift card they needed to get rid of, dunno. Dec 06 03:47:34 Ok, if you *were* to return it, how much would you get? Dec 06 03:47:43 bgupta: -10 bucks. Dec 06 03:47:50 no big deal. Dec 06 03:48:04 and no cash? Hmm... I'd think that paying money to get them to take it away versus keeping it is a pretty easy choice Dec 06 03:48:31 So why not wait 90 days, unlock it, and then sell it on the aftermarket? Dec 06 03:48:34 RyeBrye: yea, when the alternative is a windows mobile device or an iphone i'd only get marginal utility out of... Dec 06 03:49:25 infobot: devphones are also very expensive to ship outside the US Dec 06 03:49:25 Leeds: okay Dec 06 03:49:25 I wonder how much I could turn around and sell a dev phone on eBay for if I offered international shipping Dec 06 03:49:45 $699 in fake money orders Dec 06 03:49:50 :) Dec 06 03:50:04 and a lot of mangled-english emails Dec 06 03:50:09 RyeBrye: $1000 Dec 06 03:50:22 RyeBrye: if you were the first, probably a pretty penny, but margins will get smaller every hour that goes by. Dec 06 03:50:35 cannot load page. is devvphone htc dream? Dec 06 03:50:42 fnord, yep Dec 06 03:50:46 it's a g1 Dec 06 03:50:53 it's not t-mobile branded Dec 06 03:50:57 it's a Dream Dec 06 03:50:59 so it's not a G1 Dec 06 03:51:04 for 1k o.o lol Dec 06 03:51:06 correct... but it's basically the same hardware. Dec 06 03:51:12 right. Dec 06 03:51:14 fnord: HK$1000 Dec 06 03:51:21 I'd better even off the saem assembly line Dec 06 03:51:41 I believe the plastics/etc are a bit different too, but haven't seen final pictures Dec 06 03:51:42 i will stick to haxorg1 Dec 06 03:51:54 haxorg1? Dec 06 03:51:59 I will stick to the G1 I already paid too much for :-P Dec 06 03:52:16 oh Dec 06 03:52:20 haxor g1 Dec 06 03:52:20 hacked g1 =p Dec 06 03:52:23 infobot: devphones is also sporting a back with a design that looks ripped from a 2004 snowboarding catalog: http://tinyurl.com/54sxg2 Dec 06 03:52:23 that's too long, RyeBrye Dec 06 03:52:30 :( Dec 06 03:52:45 I guess your original stuff was close to the limit Dec 06 03:52:45 lol. Dec 06 03:52:46 infobot devphones is also sporting this: http://tinyurl.com/54sxg2 Dec 06 03:52:47 RyeBrye: okay Dec 06 03:52:54 infobot: devphones Dec 06 03:52:55 somebody said devphones was a phone with magical powers and will make all your wildest dreams come true. You can read about them here: http://code.google.com/android/dev-devices.html - in order to buy one, you have to pay a $25 to be in the "developer club" and then you can get into the back room where they keep them behind a curtain of lava. very expensive to ship outside the US, or sporting this: http://tinyurl.com/54sxg2 Dec 06 03:52:58 oh nice. they did go with the nifty back Dec 06 03:53:24 very nifty :) Dec 06 03:53:31 ANyone know if people have come out with double size batteries with new backs? Dec 06 03:53:47 i just want that back cover Dec 06 03:54:02 swetland: do they use an HTC unlocked bootloader similar to the engineering devices, or are they using a custom google one? Dec 06 03:54:27 I presume the radio can't be flashed with unsigned code, since the FCC would probably have a thing or two to say about that? Dec 06 03:54:56 bgupta: there is 2200 mah batt but not avail yet Dec 06 03:55:21 mmmm curtain of lava Dec 06 03:55:31 Fnordg1: Is that gonna fit in existing battery compartment, or will it require a custom back? Dec 06 03:55:44 rye: it's a stock engineering bootloader Dec 06 03:55:51 ah good Dec 06 03:55:54 0.95.300 ? Dec 06 03:55:55 we announced teh dev phones Dec 06 03:55:57 I think they might have put a robot graphic on it Dec 06 03:55:59 hope you guys are happy now :)) Dec 06 03:56:17 Hello all! I have a question. I just got the G1 and unlocked it and have a 3G SIM card and AT&T. Will I be able to use 3G? Dec 06 03:56:18 I'm closer to happy :) Dec 06 03:56:20 it's going to be a slightly different version, but it's pretty much the same stuff we use on engineering devices Dec 06 03:56:20 romainguy_: do they come with ponies Dec 06 03:56:22 Rimdar_Klall: nope Dec 06 03:56:23 Rimdar_Klall: no Dec 06 03:56:27 ponies cost extra Dec 06 03:56:42 we think providing android compatible ponies is an excellent third party opportunity Dec 06 03:56:49 romainguy_: where can i sarifice firstorn child? Dec 06 03:56:59 Good luck finding a data sheet for a pony. The pinout is nuts Dec 06 03:56:59 gah, stupid mac went low on battery, hibernated, and didn't come back to life for a while :( Dec 06 03:57:06 http://code.google.com/android/dev-devices.html Dec 06 03:57:10 born even Dec 06 03:57:27 romainguy_: only comment would be... international shipping is a killer on them - and HK isn't on the list of destinations :-P Dec 06 03:57:40 I knew you would be complaining! Dec 06 03:57:40 :)) Dec 06 03:57:54 fnord: I believe they are only accepting cash/credit transactions. no barter Dec 06 03:57:54 $120 for shipping? Dec 06 03:58:01 can you get a p.o. box in the PRC? Dec 06 03:58:03 lol Dec 06 03:58:06 Well... maybe now there will be more people wondering where the hell the MSM7201A is documented :) Dec 06 03:58:08 leeds: what?! o.o Dec 06 03:58:12 swetland: to Singapore Dec 06 03:58:16 good lord Dec 06 03:58:17 lol Dec 06 03:58:27 swetland: good thing there is a way to avoid that fee :) Dec 06 03:58:29 joeo: I'm not in the PRC, I'm in HKSAR Dec 06 03:58:30 i just want one of those cool back covers :) Dec 06 03:58:37 RyeBrye, is the graphics driver opensource? Dec 06 03:58:38 Leeds: still part of PRC :) Dec 06 03:58:46 yeah, but PRC is just across the line Dec 06 03:58:48 eugene: ssssh, don't tell them! Dec 06 03:58:51 THat's based on an ATI core, no? Dec 06 03:58:54 at least you don't have to take a plane :-D Dec 06 03:59:07 joeo: and I go monthly for shopping and massage - just a 45 minute train trip Dec 06 03:59:57 heh an hk corp wants to hire me Dec 06 04:00:16 remotely, or to relocate? Dec 06 04:00:16 BTW - FOr any Googlers soliciting feedback.. send thanks to whomever helped make the dev phones happen... Dec 06 04:00:30 75/25 Dec 06 04:00:33 * JesusFreke agrees with bgupta Dec 06 04:00:37 Yeah, thanks. Dec 06 04:00:38 Leeds: how's a hk corp culture like? Dec 06 04:00:42 seconded Dec 06 04:00:44 Now what about a trade-in program ;) Dec 06 04:00:49 eugene: local corp culture is terrible Dec 06 04:00:58 paid travel expenses Dec 06 04:01:21 lee howso, Dec 06 04:01:27 arg. after using the G1 a lot, when I get on my olpc now, my first instinct is to touch the screen Dec 06 04:01:28 long hours, very hierarchical/authoritarian, lots of politics, etc. Dec 06 04:01:37 JesusFreke: ditto with my EeePC Dec 06 04:01:52 G1's still go for a good amount on Ebay... you might almost be able to do it as an even swap... Pretty sure that until rc30 is cracked, modded G1s will retain value. (Kinda like WRT 54g v2s) Dec 06 04:01:58 Leeds: its run by a german expat Dec 06 04:02:10 Fnordg1: wonder if I know him/them Dec 06 04:02:25 Leeds: kimble? Dec 06 04:02:28 wow, even after calibrating the battery, i'm still loosing about 10 percent per hour barely even using the thing. Dec 06 04:02:34 doesn't ring a bell Dec 06 04:02:46 megaupload Dec 06 04:02:58 literally, using maps and checking twitter, like...twice. Dec 06 04:02:59 Fnordg1: Any links for 220maH battery? or timelines? Dec 06 04:03:05 nope Dec 06 04:03:32 I want a device that can do a solid 8 hours of wifi sshing Dec 06 04:03:47 (Or cellular...) Dec 06 04:03:51 can a laptop even do that? Dec 06 04:04:10 Well you see.. cellphones are supposed to have better battery lives than laptops Dec 06 04:04:23 some low-powered ones with extended batteries can, in theory Dec 06 04:04:39 But yes, there are certain EXPENSIVE sony vaio subnotebooks that claim to do 8 hours Dec 06 04:04:49 <_chris___> my compaq laptop with 2 batteries lasted 7 hours Dec 06 04:04:50 bgupta: cellphones weren't supposed to have wifi a while back Dec 06 04:05:31 Yeah.. my old Treo with the 3300maH Battery lasted 9 hours with all the radios on.. (No wifi though) Dec 06 04:05:55 ooh Dec 06 04:05:56 new SDK too Dec 06 04:06:42 wow. my olpc keyboard feels quite spacious now too, after using the G1. lol Dec 06 04:07:10 hah Dec 06 04:07:18 jf. which one Dec 06 04:07:34 got it during the first give-one get-one Dec 06 04:07:52 for xmas i want something i can fit into my purse w/a usable kb Dec 06 04:07:54 I want a Foleo style device that runs android and has infinite battery life. mmm. you know, someone needs to get hopping with a BT keyboard driver.. Dec 06 04:08:32 I'm pretty sure there are linux drivers Dec 06 04:08:35 I don't think an olpc is purseable. :) I dunno.. maybe if you have a big purse Dec 06 04:08:37 for BT keyboards Dec 06 04:09:00 bgupta: there is a site offering 2k mah on preorder Dec 06 04:09:15 fnordg1: Link please? Dec 06 04:09:19 just something the size of a hardback Dec 06 04:10:29 bgupta: google.com, i dont have it with me. "extended life" g1 may work Dec 06 04:11:00 uh.. how does I disable suspend? Dec 06 04:11:26 fnordg1: I found the 1600maH one... still looking Dec 06 04:11:48 btw all g1 questions can be answered at http://fnord.to/g Dec 06 04:12:00 (on freerunner =P) Dec 06 04:12:03 http://www.easydevices.co.uk/pp/T-Mobile_Accessories/T-Mobile_G1/T-MOBILE_G1_EXTENDED_LIFE_BATTERY.html UK site Dec 06 04:12:11 I guess screen timeout does it Dec 06 04:12:15 lol Dec 06 04:12:31 RTFG?? Dec 06 04:12:35 lol fnord :) Dec 06 04:13:01 no, it's STFG (s=search) Dec 06 04:13:06 pretty much Dec 06 04:13:08 FGI Dec 06 04:13:37 FGI works. hehe Dec 06 04:13:41 google, HTH, HAND Dec 06 04:13:55 http://justfuckinggoogleit.com/ Dec 06 04:14:06 Let Me Google That For You™ Dec 06 04:14:17 letmegooglethatforyou.com Dec 06 04:14:23 * morrildl likes STFG Dec 06 04:15:01 Oh that's good(LMGTFY) Dec 06 04:15:20 I just thought, "So what, it's a simpler google front page." Dec 06 04:15:25 Until I tried it. Dec 06 04:15:34 :p Dec 06 04:15:41 OK so far I can only find it for preorder form the UK.. Dec 06 04:15:50 rofl Dec 06 04:16:03 (@ letmegooglethatforyou.com) Dec 06 04:16:12 <_avatar> dunno if this interests anyone here, but i put together a little website for my new android app: http://autom8.clangen.org/ Dec 06 04:16:14 hmmm does it mention new cover? Dec 06 04:16:53 _avatar, cool, I still have some old X10 modules. Dec 06 04:16:59 X10 is still in business?? Dec 06 04:17:12 lol x10 Dec 06 04:17:12 Wow. Dec 06 04:17:21 Unfortunately I don't have Windows running on my server. Dec 06 04:17:32 <_avatar> yup, they're still around, and their website is as horrible as ever Dec 06 04:17:37 X10 did not just make stupid cameras with annoying advertisements. Dec 06 04:17:38 ruined by marketing dept Dec 06 04:17:50 Long before that you could get the modules and controllers at radio shack. Dec 06 04:17:59 I use them to turn on my rope lights in the living room. :) Dec 06 04:18:04 OMFG... I just checked out their website... It's worse than godaddy Dec 06 04:18:06 good product tho Dec 06 04:18:13 lol Dec 06 04:18:25 same marketing? Dec 06 04:18:37 Don't know, I never actually saw ads for the modules. Dec 06 04:18:46 I remember they used to advertise in Computte's Gazette and Byte back in the 80s Dec 06 04:18:59 spyonsupermodelnextdoor ads Dec 06 04:19:12 Ah, well... only started reading in around 1985 or 6 Dec 06 04:20:08 basically tried to look as scuzzy as possible Dec 06 04:20:31 Leeds: what time is it there? Dec 06 04:22:56 hmm actually i think someone made a multitimezone clock Dec 06 04:24:41 yeah, there is. I can't think of what it's called though Dec 06 04:24:45 wait Dec 06 04:24:46 twilight Dec 06 04:25:36 _avatar: that app is cool Dec 06 04:25:41 _avatar: oh dude Dec 06 04:25:52 <_avatar> RyeBrye: thanks :) Dec 06 04:26:17 _avatar: I totally added some Insteon devices to my xmas wish list so I can do something simlar Dec 06 04:26:18 Fnordg1: Seems the only sites that are taking preorders for the 2200maH battery are UK based.. Or my Google is broken. ;) Dec 06 04:26:28 * morrildl still has a CM11A around somewhere though. Dec 06 04:26:39 _avatar: what is the CM15A? Dec 06 04:26:42 the CM11A is the serial one, right? I think I have that one Dec 06 04:26:48 X10 stuff is great for christmas lights Dec 06 04:26:57 RyeBrye: yeah Dec 06 04:27:06 ha, christmas lights, yup Dec 06 04:27:12 I still have the cron jobs running Dec 06 04:27:21 I actually wrote a POP-style semi-English protocol server Dec 06 04:27:21 <_avatar> morrildl: the CM15A is X10's entry level USB controller Dec 06 04:27:30 You connect and tell it things like "TURN ON HOUSE A UNIT 4" Dec 06 04:28:11 _avatar: have you seen the heyu stuff? Dec 06 04:28:23 <_avatar> i've been thinking about doing a CM11A implementation as well, I just need to get my hands on a controller Dec 06 04:28:27 <_avatar> RyeBrye: nope, what's that? Dec 06 04:28:42 _avatar: harder than that can be finding the docs for it :P Dec 06 04:29:10 <_avatar> morrildl: ftp://ftp.x10.com/pub/manuals/cm11a_protocol.txt ;) Dec 06 04:29:26 _avatar: looking for info... heyu was a linux interface for X10 stuff Dec 06 04:29:41 I think someone wrote proper /dev drivers for x10 stuff though so it was even easier to interface with it from linux Dec 06 04:29:42 <_avatar> oh, nice Dec 06 04:30:20 We use x10 for android development.... we have a lamp that turns on when the build is broken, and it's controlled by x10. Dec 06 04:30:48 http://wish.sourceforge.net/index2.html Dec 06 04:31:36 morrildl: Was curious is there a place I can find out if someone is working on a driver? (Like an RFE board or something?) Basically I am toying with the idea of trying to get BT keyboard drivers going... (It's a reach but it should be fun).. Dec 06 04:31:37 <_avatar> RyeBrye: oh wow, awesome. Dec 06 04:31:48 <_avatar> thanks :D Dec 06 04:32:28 (Not really big on the idea of duplicated effort though) Dec 06 04:33:26 jbq - you should look into the X10 alarm sirens :) http://www.safemart.com/Receivers/X-10-Wireless-Plug-In-Siren-X10-PSH02.htm?CAWELAID=209457439 Much more noticeable :) Dec 06 04:33:36 Anyone played with system/bluetooth yet? Dec 06 04:34:09 RyeBrye: I'm right next to the lamp, so it's noticable enough for me... but we could look into hooking it up to a large gong (I'm sure that swetland will know what I mean) Dec 06 04:34:29 lol Dec 06 04:34:59 but that would be positive reinforcement though... you could have it just do it for when checkins greater than X lines of code produce a successful build Dec 06 04:35:58 If my entire team didn't work remotely, I'd totally do that light thing Dec 06 04:36:08 anyone decoded market's protool yet? Dec 06 04:36:11 In order to make something that my whole team would notice, we'd probably have to have a 0.5 megaton bomb or something Dec 06 04:36:37 we'd probably have to have a 0.5 megaton bomb or something --> what do it means? Dec 06 04:36:53 oh, a "build-is-broken" indicator Dec 06 04:37:02 whenever someone here broke production Dec 06 04:37:07 it means bom. big boom Dec 06 04:37:13 there was this giant honking rubber chicken Dec 06 04:37:28 broken builds are a daily thing :p Dec 06 04:37:38 if we blew up a 500kT nuke each time the android build broke, we'd have a nuclear winter in less than a month... Dec 06 04:40:21 So I read somewhere the G1 touchscreen hardware (but not software) is multitouch capable.. Dec 06 04:40:52 _avatar: oh wow. Well it was harder than that when I last went looking :) Dec 06 04:40:57 Is there anything legally preventing Android from supporting? I know Apple has a bunch of patents.. Dec 06 04:41:17 bgupta: I'm not currently aware of anything like a driver list Dec 06 04:41:34 gonna dig through source.. and see... Dec 06 04:42:05 synapics driver in kernel Dec 06 04:42:18 <_chris___> is there going to be a software keyboard? Dec 06 04:42:31 <_avatar> morrildl: it actually took me forever to dig that cm11a doc up, i eventually found the link in some obscure forum post from ~8 years ago Dec 06 04:42:39 I know the answer to that one.. yes to software keyboard Dec 06 04:42:51 <_avatar> needless to say i bookmarked it immediately :P Dec 06 04:44:03 lol any sort of timeline on the software keyboard? Dec 06 04:44:37 No idea.. but it is supposedly a planned feature... Dec 06 04:44:43 soon? Dec 06 04:44:44 :) Dec 06 04:44:48 lol Dec 06 04:45:14 infobot: IMF Dec 06 04:45:14 hmm... imf is the International Monetary Fund, otherwise known as "International Monetary Foulplay" Dec 06 04:45:57 Hey does anyone know if repo works on Mac OS X? Dec 06 04:46:28 mm. just gonna try Dec 06 04:47:10 infobot: no, IMF is a feature that "...will enable support for input methods other than physical keyboards, for example soft keyboards. IMF will also enable application developers to provide IME (see below) applications based on the framework." - read about it here: http://source.android.com/roadmap Dec 06 04:47:10 RyeBrye: okay Dec 06 04:47:13 infobot IMF Dec 06 04:47:13 imf is, like, a feature that "...will enable support for input methods other than physical keyboards, for example soft keyboards. IMF will also enable application developers to provide IME (see below) applications based on the framework." - read about it here: http://source.android.com/roadmap Dec 06 04:47:31 infobot tell Acidulous about IMF Dec 06 04:48:00 hahaha that's awesome Dec 06 04:48:55 bgupta: yes, repo works on MacOSX. Dec 06 04:49:35 I use it with 10.4, other people use it with 10.5. I think it works with Python 2.4 and 2.5. Dec 06 04:50:12 for all questions related to Mac OS X: a large part of the Android team worked/works on Mac OS X 10.4/10.5 Dec 06 04:50:14 danke Dec 06 04:50:26 (you need an x86 machine to *build* android, though). Dec 06 04:50:30 <_chris___> great cause im waiting for a android phone with no keyboard Dec 06 04:50:52 yeah no worries.. it's a hackintosh... Dec 06 05:16:37 http://source.android.com/roadmap according to this "Final push to the open-source repositories" Is supposed to finish up by dec. of this year... anyone know if this is complete/on schedule? Dec 06 05:17:09 it's not complete yet Dec 06 05:17:15 if it's not on schedule, it's close Dec 06 05:17:21 but I'm not completely sure Dec 06 05:18:08 we're working hard on it, but until it's done it's hard to be entirely sure. Dec 06 05:18:38 cool.. Wish whomever is working on it the best of luck... It's really hard to move stuff out from behind the curtain while still meeting internal milestones for project delivery.. Dec 06 05:19:10 You've exactly identified the source of the difficulty. Dec 06 05:20:13 If we freeze regular development to do a push, we put pressure on all the rest of the roadmap. Dec 06 05:21:08 jbq: ah the joy of switching back and forth between two different tree layouts :)) Dec 06 05:21:38 If we take a snapshot and prepare it to be pushed out (which takes a while), by the time it gets outside it's already behind. Dec 06 05:21:44 romainguy_: I feel your pain. Dec 06 05:21:59 but that's ok Dec 06 05:22:02 Well, it will be really great when you guys get it done. At least you guys aren't using two different source code management systems. (I hope). :) Dec 06 05:22:10 yeah, I have no idea where the code is anymore Dec 06 05:22:11 soon we'll be going back and forth between two layouts and two different VCS :)) Dec 06 05:22:18 in the tree i mean Dec 06 05:22:19 bgupta: well... :)) Dec 06 05:22:32 no!!!! say it ain't so.. Dec 06 05:22:32 joeo: me neither and half of my scripts don't work anymore Dec 06 05:22:43 and there's some stuff I have no idea on how to build without rebuilding the entire tree Dec 06 05:22:54 bgupta: it's temporary Dec 06 05:22:55 we're switching from perforce internally to git externally Dec 06 05:23:32 on top of that we're doing a relayout of the source tree so that it splits better into individual projects. Dec 06 05:23:33 Shawn and I started gerrit and repo about 3 months ago Dec 06 05:23:39 so it really hasn't had much time to mature Dec 06 05:25:14 Several engineers have been spending a lot of their time in the last few months (or all of their time, or even more than that) to support our transition to being an open-source project. Dec 06 05:26:50 Damn seriously exciting times... I am psyched, because of the dev phones, it means someone is serious about getting ext. people to get to do real work... (THe source code is one thing, but without real hardware to test it on, it's kinda lacking... Dec 06 05:27:13 yep Dec 06 05:27:17 we really are serious about this Dec 06 05:27:18 bgupta: exactly Dec 06 05:27:23 that'll teach to not have faith in us :p Dec 06 05:28:08 http://www.engadget.com/2008/12/05/sim-hardware-unlocked-android-dev-phone-1-surfaces-for-399/ I tippe'd 'em off :) Dec 06 05:28:39 :) Dec 06 05:29:20 Gotta understand people are impatient... we have been waiting for this kind of platform for half a decade.. and hearing all the press for a good time now. Dec 06 05:29:59 I was pretty entertained by the huge "whoah they actually open sourced it" reaction we got when we pushed the 1.0 sources out just before g1 launched Dec 06 05:30:25 All the comments on that thread are positive buzz Dec 06 05:30:36 bgupta: We totally understand. And we appreciate that you understand the magnitude of the task to switching to open-source on such a large project. Dec 06 05:30:44 I mean we had been saying we were going to do that for roughly a year prior, but there was an awful lot of "no way it's some elaborate trick" speculation ^^ Dec 06 05:31:21 otoh, there are a few other linux phone projects are that we're still waiting for. So I understand the skepticism Dec 06 05:31:58 I wish we could have shipped the dev devices at the same time as g1 launch. didn't quite work out that way Dec 06 05:32:14 now that the source and dev devices are out I will demand one ListView patch for every complaint ^^ Dec 06 05:32:25 swetland: 6 weeks later isn't too bad :) Dec 06 05:32:41 swetland: heh, you at least could've told us they were coming ;-P Dec 06 05:32:57 swetland (and I) gave several hints on this very channel Dec 06 05:33:01 for the past few weeks Dec 06 05:33:30 (and "hints" is a weak term :) Dec 06 05:33:36 yeah, I have been dropping the occasional not-so-subtle hint, without stepping over the line that would cause management to strangle me ^^ Dec 06 05:33:39 I just need a dump of the spl part from an engineering phone :( Dec 06 05:33:59 I need to subscribe to that g1-hacking list. I miss all the fun ^^ Dec 06 05:34:02 swetland: you can just pm me - I can keep secrets Dec 06 05:34:12 RyeBrye: you don't want to simply get a dev phone? Dec 06 05:34:24 Now, let's get the latest source code out (so much work left, and I don't want the people involved to burn out *again*). Dec 06 05:34:53 jbq: today my manager forbade me to burn out again for a few months :) Dec 06 05:35:11 * joeo is way past burned out Dec 06 05:35:21 romainguy_: wife. I already dropped $$ on a phone. She wont let drop $400 on a dev one Dec 06 05:35:35 romain: you are not allowed to die until after we ship Dec 06 05:35:43 romain: this rule resets after we ship Dec 06 05:35:48 swetland: that's what Mike told me :) Dec 06 05:35:49 it's like how charcoal is burned already, but somehow it still catches fire Dec 06 05:35:57 swetland: ship? Dec 06 05:36:02 joeo: it's your bones man, they can burn Dec 06 05:36:15 I gotta say *again*. For a 1.0 release. This was one of the best... I don't think people realize it yet, because it's a t-mobile only device... but this platform is gonna end up doing very well... For something still in it's infancy.. it's solid.. (Many here will agree). Dec 06 05:36:18 ui: we aren't actually packing up and going home after the first phone hits the market ^^ Dec 06 05:36:30 bgupta: ask Disconnect :)) Dec 06 05:36:52 romainguy_ ;-) Dec 06 05:36:57 I'm fairly confident I can get the unlocked bootloader on the normal G1 - but the one guy I know who has one that got it magically has disappeared off the face of the earth Dec 06 05:37:21 RyeBrye: oooh that would be cheating Dec 06 05:37:51 I'll get a gel pen and draw polygons on the back of my phone - nobody will ever know! Dec 06 05:38:54 just be *really* careful when you guys start reflashing hboot Dec 06 05:39:08 because hosing that is a huge pain in the ass to recover from Dec 06 05:39:22 Yeah, I can only imagine Dec 06 05:39:28 swetland: with these dev devices I feel lame with the devices I'll give away next week in Europe :p Dec 06 05:39:42 romainguy_: - true... you should give them to me instead Dec 06 05:39:42 neat, dev devices Dec 06 05:39:51 infobot tell geist about devphones Dec 06 05:40:04 swetland: is hosing hboot the step such that they're hosed enough that they're not worth recovering? Dec 06 05:40:08 RyeBrye: buy a ticket to Devoxx Dec 06 05:40:13 :) Dec 06 05:40:18 hose thou not thy boot Dec 06 05:40:30 now my device doesn't feel so funny Dec 06 05:40:32 jbq: recovery from that has some serious quality of life consequences for the device Dec 06 05:40:57 yeah, it'd be pretty hard to recover from it on a normal phone I imagine Dec 06 05:41:01 swetland: yo boss Dec 06 05:41:55 I'm pretty sure production devices don't have the arm9 bl recovery mode stuff (would be a big backdoor) so they'd have to take the device apart and rework it to reflash. The hw I have that's been through that process always has looked a bit beaten up Dec 06 05:41:59 heya san Dec 06 05:42:13 who did you bribe to get ops out here? ^^ Dec 06 05:42:28 swetland: you dont want to know the things i had to do.. Dec 06 05:42:29 RyeBrye: heh, nice top. Dec 06 05:42:32 terrible.. terrible things Dec 06 05:42:34 * SanMehat shudders Dec 06 05:42:47 swetland: Should the 2.6.27 kernel be able to boot a G1? http://android.git.kernel.org/?p=kernel/msm.git;a=shortlog;h=refs/heads/android-msm-2.6.27 Dec 06 05:43:15 it should Dec 06 05:43:17 rye: I'd wait until the next mainline open source push Dec 06 05:43:34 because I believe there are a couple needed userspace changes that are not in the external trees yet Dec 06 05:43:46 (but will be coming shortly) Dec 06 05:43:53 ack right. Dec 06 05:43:55 cool Dec 06 05:44:07 I like cpu freq scaling, and I like cpu max freq at 528 Dec 06 05:44:10 stick with .25 for the moment, move to .27 when we finish the next big external drop Dec 06 05:44:36 rye: 528 isn't a big win in many cases (many pain points are io bound, not cpu bound) and does cost you power wise Dec 06 05:44:49 the better cpu scaling is a plus though Dec 06 05:44:52 RyeBrye: 528 doesn't buy you much from my experiments Dec 06 05:44:56 s/cpu/cpufreq/ Dec 06 05:44:56 swetland meant: the better cpufreq scaling is a plus though Dec 06 05:44:58 swetland: can I ask you to have a look at gerrit changes 5269 and 5270? I'd like to push them before the week-end for the openmoko guys... in case they're still interested... Dec 06 05:45:05 Right, the bottleneck is memory right? Dec 06 05:45:22 RyeBrye: i/o mainly Dec 06 05:45:31 http://android.git.kernel.org/?p=kernel/msm.git;a=commit;h=c2ae3738cf027412b6be46a43b19fee161b87ce7 What uses the Elan 8232 ? Dec 06 05:45:38 jbq: is digit happy with these? Dec 06 05:45:55 rye: nothing that's shipping yet Dec 06 05:46:15 swetland: I haven't heard back from him. They're straight copies from the internal tree, and the diffs match the original change. Dec 06 05:46:25 doesn't 528 also overheats the thing? Dec 06 05:46:27 Elan 8232 code also has multifingers that can be tracked in it? Dec 06 05:46:59 romainguy_: not as far as i can tell, but it doesn't really buy you any noticible difference Dec 06 05:47:06 fwiw, I pestered swetland a while ago about running at 528 to improve the speed of the UI but it didn't help at all Dec 06 05:47:06 swetland: anyway, it's obviously your decision. But if the decision is "yes" I'd prefer if it happened earlier rather than later. Dec 06 05:47:08 SanMehat: I know Dec 06 05:47:13 most stuff are I/O bounds Dec 06 05:47:23 or in the case of the UI, we're often bound by the bus speed Dec 06 05:47:29 jbq: corner me on monday? if they're the same as the internal stuff, I'm fine with it Dec 06 05:47:44 I know that list flinging, which is the worst case scenario for the UI, doesn't go much faster at 528 Dec 06 05:47:46 just kinda in the middle of MSM8250 hacking right now ^^ Dec 06 05:47:48 OK, we'll see on Monday while digit it still in town. Dec 06 05:47:59 uh, cool! Dec 06 05:48:14 MSM8250 ? Dec 06 05:48:17 * RyeBrye want Dec 06 05:48:34 some day! Dec 06 05:48:39 swetland: you couldn't wait could you :) Dec 06 05:48:48 528 helps for non-IO non-graphics dalvik stuff. But not for the rest, and it's not worth the battery life. Dec 06 05:49:15 but with ondemand, doesn't it tend to not ever get up that high anyway even if it is enabled? Dec 06 05:49:15 san: I've been trying to do this ALL WEEK Dec 06 05:49:27 it is now nearly 10pm on friday and I can finally write some code in peace ^^ Dec 06 05:49:37 RyeBrye: yeah but battery life matters :)) Dec 06 05:50:16 romainguy_: but with ondemand clocking it at 3xx almost all the time, and only going up to 538 or whatever very occasionally, wouldn't that help it? Dec 06 05:50:21 swetland: hahaha i know.. this week was a good coding week for me Dec 06 05:50:27 lucky bastard Dec 06 05:50:38 someday they'll make you a manager. you'll get yours! Dec 06 05:50:48 I haven't coded a thing in a while month. Dec 06 05:50:51 same here. i have to essentially resort to working at home or working on the weekend Dec 06 05:50:55 sigh Dec 06 05:50:56 s/while/whole/ Dec 06 05:50:57 jbq meant: I haven't coded a thing in a whole month. Dec 06 05:51:06 * sparkle nods Dec 06 05:51:16 romain, i really noticed the bus limits when i ran an lmbench :) Dec 06 05:51:48 someone else just noticed how terrible the msm7k is performance wise? Dec 06 05:51:50 for what it is it's definitely not bad Dec 06 05:52:42 swetland: no f'in way do you want to make me a manager :) Dec 06 05:52:50 geist: I don't find it terrible. My biggest concern is how it's in pain when doing 3D on a large screen. Dec 06 05:53:15 well, it's only terrible in contrast to all the other much better arm11s out there Dec 06 05:53:22 san: it would be the same reason rubin made me a manager: revenge Dec 06 05:53:28 ahahaha Dec 06 05:53:33 lol Dec 06 05:53:42 you're a sick one... but I *do* understand you.... Dec 06 05:53:58 he'd been threatening to for years whenever I really pissed him off and he finally made good on his threats Dec 06 05:54:23 geist: hola - how goes? Dec 06 05:54:37 * jbq makes a note to avoid getting Andy pissed off. Dec 06 05:54:38 pretty crappy. deep in trying to make stuff go Dec 06 05:54:54 geist: you guys need to ship so these crazy people can port android to your hw Dec 06 05:54:59 geist: doh. Dec 06 05:55:10 swetland: oh you wouldn't believe how nice it'll be to run android on :) Dec 06 05:55:19 geist: :) Dec 06 05:55:40 you've been taunting me forever. the ID had better be unfrickinbelievable ^^ Dec 06 05:56:13 anyway, currently stuck in warm boot hell Dec 06 05:56:30 warm boots are always hell for bootloader, since you have essentially an infinite number of states the hardware can be in Dec 06 05:56:35 warm boot for resume or just soft reboot? Dec 06 05:56:44 soft reboot Dec 06 05:57:02 warm boot for resume is handled by the cpu pretty nicekly Dec 06 05:57:04 that's *one* nice thing about 7201a... we don't actually have to come back through the bl Dec 06 05:57:10 oucha Dec 06 05:57:26 ; ; Dec 06 05:57:26 Unpacking replacement python2.5-minimal ... Dec 06 05:57:26 Unpacking replacement python2.5-minimal ...Errors were encountered while processing: /var/cache/apt/archives/python-apt_0.7.3.1ubuntu4.2_i386.deb Dec 06 05:57:30 E: Sub-process /usr/bin/dpkg returned an error code (1) Dec 06 05:57:53 geist: back before when i was writing bioses, we always made warm boots turn into cold boots (before doing any HT initialization) Dec 06 05:58:00 it was just easier to deal with Dec 06 05:58:10 yeah, but there's always something you dont catch Dec 06 05:58:20 especialy on the PMIC Dec 06 05:58:23 which is a monster Dec 06 05:58:27 geist: well.. we'd make it a cold boot by forcing PCI_RST :) Dec 06 05:58:40 that has a way of whacking *everything* Dec 06 05:58:44 sadly can't reboot the hand that feeds you by whacking the pmic Dec 06 05:58:48 doh Dec 06 05:58:54 that *is* sad Dec 06 05:59:05 :( Dec 06 05:59:06 * swetland kicks his ubunutu box Dec 06 05:59:07 anyway, works great until you trip over something you forgot Dec 06 05:59:15 yeah Dec 06 05:59:20 i don't envy you that Dec 06 05:59:25 nah, it's no biggie Dec 06 05:59:34 had similar problems at apple on iphone Dec 06 05:59:39 holy crap this channel is hugs Dec 06 05:59:41 you just dig through the manuals until you find everything Dec 06 05:59:50 and reset the rest Dec 06 06:00:19 hugs/huge Dec 06 06:00:24 it's mostly just annoying because it's a pain to debug Dec 06 06:00:29 no serial at that point Dec 06 06:00:39 * jbq gives SanMehat a few huge hugs Dec 06 06:00:55 HUGEHUG ATTACK Dec 06 06:01:35 hey open source community: anyone feel like writing valgrind for arm so we can kill off the simulator? Dec 06 06:01:52 because I spent the last two days making the build system build it on 64 bit linux Dec 06 06:02:09 oh gods, please let me kill the simulator Dec 06 06:02:16 I've been trying for two years now Dec 06 06:02:22 who still uses that? Dec 06 06:02:23 joeo: we already did Dec 06 06:02:25 that thing is the bane of my existence Dec 06 06:02:25 I know Dec 06 06:02:30 mine too Dec 06 06:02:43 sanmehat: fadden will cry if he cannot run the vm in sim under valgrind Dec 06 06:02:45 joeo: we even sort of released it, but it hasn't made it back to the main valgrind tree yet Dec 06 06:02:47 the browser team, fadden and marco use it Dec 06 06:02:53 to run valgrind Dec 06 06:02:57 geist: really? Dec 06 06:02:59 yeah really Dec 06 06:03:07 url? Dec 06 06:03:11 we use it a lot, even supports armv7 Dec 06 06:03:13 joeo: ASK AND YE SHALL RECEIVE Dec 06 06:03:14 what I really want is valgrind-like functionality in qemu Dec 06 06:03:21 ==swetland Dec 06 06:03:22 yeah Dec 06 06:03:32 i dont know the status of it precisely. we sent in some patches to valgrind, dont know if they took it Dec 06 06:03:37 so we don't take the performance hit of running valgrind inside the arm emu. though that'd be nice to have too Dec 06 06:03:42 it's a big pile of changes, so they're probably chewing on it Dec 06 06:04:10 i think the sticking point is the valgrind authors require that you assign copyright to them Dec 06 06:04:17 and so that causes our lawyers to have to get involved, etc Dec 06 06:04:22 blah Dec 06 06:04:31 so i think we have put out a public set of patches, but it wont get integrated until we can sign off on it, etc Dec 06 06:04:34 haha, flooded Dec 06 06:05:01 sorry Dec 06 06:05:08 anyway, yeah we put an intern or two on it this summer and it worked out pretty well Dec 06 06:05:09 geist: what toolchain do the cool kids who want vfp and neon support use these days? Dec 06 06:05:13 intern #2 is polishing it off Dec 06 06:05:19 swetland: codesourcery Dec 06 06:05:26 luckily, we have some good non-bullshit lawyers. Dec 06 06:05:30 any particular version/build/etc Dec 06 06:05:40 we've been using 2007q3, it seems to be stable Dec 06 06:05:48 some of the newer 2008s had some neon issues Dec 06 06:05:54 though cs claims they're fixed now Dec 06 06:06:14 but i dont expect any real good neon support out of the compiler. that's asm territory Dec 06 06:06:17 we're getting our ARMv7 stuff sorted out Dec 06 06:06:25 armv7 == w1n Dec 06 06:06:28 yah Dec 06 06:06:37 thumb2 > * Dec 06 06:06:38 I want to see mathias update codeflinger for it Dec 06 06:06:54 that's the current gotcha with our valgrind too, arm only at the moment Dec 06 06:06:59 does thumb2 support ldex and such? Dec 06 06:07:00 haven't hacked in the thumb bits Dec 06 06:07:06 thumb2 supports everything Dec 06 06:07:15 all the cp15 stuff Dec 06 06:07:24 now if only arm would get their heads out of their butts and release instruction set docs publicly Dec 06 06:07:27 all the new bits Dec 06 06:07:41 thumb2 look an awful lot like i386, in fact Dec 06 06:07:42 * andyross ducks Dec 06 06:07:44 the new docs are pretty hateful Dec 06 06:07:48 yep, exactly Dec 06 06:08:19 15 prefix bytes ftw Dec 06 06:08:26 now that we're essentially post instruction set making that much of a difference but cpu speed still outstripping memory, having dense .text matters more than anything else Dec 06 06:08:28 hahaha Dec 06 06:08:39 intel waited long enough that having cisc ends up eventually paying off Dec 06 06:09:22 though i suspect that stuffing 256K or so of L2 in front of a usually cache starved arm starts making the thumb advantage go away Dec 06 06:09:29 More like when you have 22 pipeline stages, an extra one or two for instruction decode doesn't seem like such a big deal. Dec 06 06:09:56 exactly. the cost of decoding x86 or thumb or thumb2 is more or less fixed, wheras the size of the cpu is going up by moores law Dec 06 06:10:04 now it's just this tiny little corner Dec 06 06:10:32 x86 started to pull off when intel started to design chipsets with good L2 and RAM interfaces. Dec 06 06:10:42 and anyway, thumb2 is still pretty darn easy to decode. all 32bit thumb instructions have the same first couple of bits Dec 06 06:10:57 0xEA.......? Dec 06 06:10:58 it's easy to decide to fetch the next Dec 06 06:11:23 i forget. the 32bit instructions all fit into a previously unused piece of the 16bit thumb instruction space Dec 06 06:11:40 oh wacky Dec 06 06:11:45 qsd8250 has stacked memory Dec 06 06:11:50 for some reason I thought it didn't Dec 06 06:12:19 geist: ewww, that could have been a description of UTF-16. Dec 06 06:12:34 any word on how fast the dev phone ship? Dec 06 06:12:39 the only real icky thing in thumb2 is the way the emulated conditional instructions: the it isntruction lets you modify up to the next 4 instructions Dec 06 06:12:54 basically you can specify on conditiion take the next n instructions and dont take the next m Dec 06 06:13:00 where n + m <= 4 Dec 06 06:13:25 Oh, and do dev phones have only OSS stack of software, or will they have youtube... etc. on them? Dec 06 06:13:43 geist: oh, wacky. Dec 06 06:13:46 you know, I honestly don't know exactly what's in that build Dec 06 06:13:47 geist: wow, that's powerful Dec 06 06:14:10 ttuttle: not as much as the original 32bit arm instruction set, where every instruction has a 4 bit condition field Dec 06 06:14:16 that's *very* powerful Dec 06 06:14:22 expressive instructions aren't always a win though. They have to be worth the die area required to support them, which could be used for cache or whatnot. Dec 06 06:14:43 geist: oh, wow Dec 06 06:14:46 yeah, arm is a realy fun instruction set for hacking by hand Dec 06 06:14:57 but meh, compilers do all the dirty work now Dec 06 06:15:11 * jbq remembers Be's x86 compression code that made it 5x smaller (gzip typically only gets 2x). Dec 06 06:15:20 yes, i still tell stories about that jb Dec 06 06:15:24 jbq Dec 06 06:15:28 I was just telling someone about that yesterday too Dec 06 06:15:34 it goes down in legend. i assume no one used it at access Dec 06 06:15:38 that and pierre locking himself in his office for a week to write the rotated appserver Dec 06 06:15:39 In the context of the systemimage being full Dec 06 06:15:39 Be was pretty nuts Dec 06 06:15:52 did some of you work on Be? Dec 06 06:16:04 joeo, swetland, jbq, and I did Dec 06 06:16:11 and more that are probably idling Dec 06 06:16:13 bunch of us. I did kernel crap, scsi, usb, midi, cdr, etc Dec 06 06:16:19 RyeBrye: the purchase page lists Google Maps, Gmail, YouTube, Google Calendar and Google Talk. Dec 06 06:16:22 Cool. I ran Be OS for a while on my PowerPC mac that had dual 604 processors Dec 06 06:16:27 jbq: - cool. Dec 06 06:16:29 jbq: thanks Dec 06 06:16:38 it is beos x86's fault that I'm here Dec 06 06:16:40 jbq: and what about the market :) Dec 06 06:16:41 I'm happy to have my name on the x86-compression patent. Dec 06 06:16:49 i have the dubious honor of having written the kernel for the haiku beos rewrite project Dec 06 06:17:01 RyeBrye: oh, Market is also there. Dec 06 06:17:05 ok, good :) Dec 06 06:17:11 what about tricorder? Dec 06 06:17:12 ;) Dec 06 06:17:22 * jbq is also here because of BeOS. Dec 06 06:17:36 (where "here" is Google, and USA). Dec 06 06:17:40 my career flows pretty directly from Be to here Dec 06 06:17:46 i managed to escape the pull of the mountain view singularity Dec 06 06:18:00 but i feel the tug every day. all trees lean in towards google Dec 06 06:18:27 Fnordg1: HK - and all of China - is GMT+8 Dec 06 06:18:32 we are working on technology to edit the trees back into their natural position in streetview Dec 06 06:18:33 The Be demo showing balls bouncing between different windows that I saw in an issue of MacTech was pretty nuts to me at the time Dec 06 06:18:57 who's going to implement that on android? Dec 06 06:19:01 oh no, you didn't see the swetland fishtank Dec 06 06:19:23 was that DFP? Dec 06 06:19:33 What would the analog be for android? having a ball bounce between activities? Dec 06 06:19:34 on top of openblt Dec 06 06:19:49 openblt? Dec 06 06:19:51 RyeBrye: between devices, using xmpp. Dec 06 06:19:56 could do a fishtank on the device if you knew pretty accurately where the other fishtanks are Dec 06 06:20:06 jbq: if GPS was accurate enough, that would rule :) Dec 06 06:20:13 could be fun. fish swims off your device onto another Dec 06 06:20:16 the compass might be able to get the orientation right Dec 06 06:20:20 you could paint one, or stick a note on it, or something Dec 06 06:20:39 How accurate is the ss strength meter on the bluetooth? Dec 06 06:20:40 oh gods Dec 06 06:20:42 http://www.acm.uiuc.edu/sigops/eoh98/dfp/fish.html Dec 06 06:20:56 there ya go. DFP needs to live again swetland Dec 06 06:21:04 this time it's domain is THE WORLD Dec 06 06:21:33 That would be funny :) if you could tag a fish with a little note and have it travel around - you could use the compass and rough location to find a peer Dec 06 06:21:40 we need a new generation of SIGOPS nerds to create DFP2.0 Dec 06 06:21:51 is this the one that would send it down daisy chained 10 Base 2? Dec 06 06:21:57 and fish could have a goal in mind that you give them when you create the fish Dec 06 06:22:08 i.e travel from San Francisco to New York - 1 phone at a time :) Dec 06 06:22:09 yeah Dec 06 06:22:14 dude! that would rule Dec 06 06:22:16 like travelbugs in geocaching :) Dec 06 06:22:40 maybe it could send you postcards Dec 06 06:22:42 where it got to Dec 06 06:22:50 Or it could post tweets along the way :) Dec 06 06:22:57 or whatever the kids call it nowadays Dec 06 06:23:00 a tweeting fish :) Dec 06 06:23:34 I wonder which would be cooler: requiring close proximity to transfer fish, or allowing it to jump up to a few miles to the next fish Dec 06 06:23:45 the jumping a few miles is probably less rapist friendly Dec 06 06:24:01 yeah, it would swim around in your tank for a whiel before jumping again Dec 06 06:24:11 i would sit there and watch it all day (instead of working) Dec 06 06:24:13 Yeah, until you got somewhere close enough that it could be handed off :) Dec 06 06:24:44 protip: downloading your kernel to valid physical addresses increases your chances of a successful boot Dec 06 06:24:48 * jbq imagines the fish jumping off all the time in the Googleplex. Dec 06 06:25:06 I'd drive to Googleplex just to pass fish off Dec 06 06:25:21 yeah, drive by and they'd all jump in your device Dec 06 06:25:24 swetland: doh. I'm a l33t kernal h4x0rz, have you ever heard of virtual memory? Dec 06 06:25:25 :) Dec 06 06:26:56 IMF should take a backburner to fish Dec 06 06:27:04 * RyeBrye just demonstrated why he isn't a manager Dec 06 06:27:38 dont worry, swetland only has about a 2 week attention span Dec 06 06:27:45 it's legendary Dec 06 06:27:54 that can be medicated, I think Dec 06 06:27:56 ;) Dec 06 06:28:07 You can probably reduce it to 1 week Dec 06 06:28:10 nah, you need a number of swetlands in the world to get the ball rolling Dec 06 06:28:19 then you get dborts to finish it off Dec 06 06:28:23 ahaha Dec 06 06:28:26 geist: the scary part is that he can do in 2 weeks what regular engineers take 6 months to do. Dec 06 06:28:32 combined, they are unstoppable Dec 06 06:28:49 yeah, wish i was that way, but i think my brain rotted away a few years ago Dec 06 06:29:02 apple did it to me, i think Dec 06 06:29:03 well I do a bit of both starting and finishing. more the former than the latter Dec 06 06:29:15 So how close was Apple to buying Be? Dec 06 06:29:22 before our time Dec 06 06:29:31 way before our time Dec 06 06:29:33 RyeBrye: that was before ... what swetland said. Dec 06 06:29:40 So they had already bought NeXT when you were there? Dec 06 06:29:48 Yeah Dec 06 06:29:52 yeah, we were in the x86 years Dec 06 06:29:59 and jbq and i made it through the beia years Dec 06 06:30:03 they hired me in may or june of 98 iirc Dec 06 06:30:08 * jbq started on Apr 6 '98 Dec 06 06:30:09 may 99 for me Dec 06 06:30:13 That's when I started college - '98 Dec 06 06:30:27 swetland: you started after I did? Geee, I didn't remember that, I thought you were there before me. Dec 06 06:30:36 I was running BeOS on my mac in 97 or something - they gave out discs with the PPC version of it at MacWorld IIRC Dec 06 06:30:56 yeah, i got into beso because a mac buddy of mine had r3 cds and gave me the intel one Dec 06 06:30:59 he didn't need it Dec 06 06:31:22 So no BeBoxes lying around? Dec 06 06:31:26 I owned a bebox, sold it to a friend when I lacked time to hack on it, but got the x86 cd when they shipped it Dec 06 06:31:30 * geist has 2 in his arage Dec 06 06:31:30 geist: funny, they weren't released together. maybe r3.1 or something. Dec 06 06:31:38 I have 1 in storage. Dec 06 06:31:48 got a 133MHz bebox in my hall closet at home, and a bemachine (dual hobbit, triple dsp) Dec 06 06:31:49 jbq: maybe it was one of the dev things? it was a little fold out thing with 2 cds in it Dec 06 06:31:54 i think i actually still have it somewhere Dec 06 06:32:00 I think that was the 3.1 update. Dec 06 06:32:05 swetland: oh you have a hobbit. cool, we were just talking about those Dec 06 06:32:11 may/june 98 Dec 06 06:32:22 I have a hobbit mobo, plus a second set of (5) CPUs. Dec 06 06:32:28 would have been about right. i screwed around with it for a while, started hacking fs drivers for it Dec 06 06:32:32 yeah, I put one together from bits and pieces from ming's backup cube Dec 06 06:32:36 exact spelling h0bb1t. Dec 06 06:32:36 then did the intern thing in may 99 Dec 06 06:33:05 the only other working one i know of cameron had put together and sold on ebay a week after he was canned Dec 06 06:33:10 where's Ming these days? Did he end up at apple too? Dec 06 06:33:19 he's at apple with manuel Dec 06 06:33:23 * jbq realizes that the ex-be guys must be looking like old farts in this channel. Dec 06 06:33:33 when i was at apple he was 3 doors down Dec 06 06:33:33 Wow. "um, just checked it out, they want $264 to ship to Canada..." re: the dev phone Dec 06 06:33:33 that's because we *are* old farts Dec 06 06:33:39 Singapore is half price of canada? Dec 06 06:33:47 rye: it's a smaller country Dec 06 06:33:51 swetland: good point. Dec 06 06:33:54 yeah, should have reported to Carousel a long time ago Dec 06 06:37:12 oh wow Dec 06 06:37:23 this cpu must be running at like tcxo or something Dec 06 06:37:27 I thought it had crashed Dec 06 06:37:33 it was just taking frickin' forever to decompress Dec 06 06:37:41 yay 32khz cpus Dec 06 06:37:55 well, guess not that slow Dec 06 06:38:03 okay, time to understand how the hell the cpu clock control works on this beast ^^ Dec 06 06:38:39 you have to go ask the smaller, retarded, cousin to set it up for you? Dec 06 06:38:58 nah. cpu clock is owned by the cpu Dec 06 06:39:08 just works differently than on 7k Dec 06 06:39:14 in msm7k clock owns you Dec 06 06:42:13 has Adobe hooked google up at all with betas of the flash player, or are they just playing with themselves? Dec 06 06:43:06 or if they did, you guys couldn't talk about it? Dec 06 06:43:27 can't talk about unlaunched partner projects and such Dec 06 06:43:41 Ok. figured as much Dec 06 06:44:05 I'll have to work my adobe connections to see if they have a prerelease of it out there Dec 06 06:44:22 * RyeBrye pretends he has strong adobe connections, when really he just knows people who do Dec 06 06:47:52 not my submission, but on digg right now is a link to the engadget post about the G1 dev phones: http://digg.com/gadgets/SIM_hardware_unlocked_Android_Dev_Phone_G1_for_399 Dec 06 06:49:57 interesting, maybe that's the answer to having root Dec 06 06:50:52 yep, it is. Dec 06 06:50:57 you missed the orgy about it earlier! :) Dec 06 06:51:06 infobot: tell spikebike about devphones Dec 06 06:51:17 heh Dec 06 06:51:30 yeah I *gasp* actually went out for awhile on friday night ;-) Dec 06 06:52:37 If I knew reliably how fast the G1 dev phone would ship, I'd buy one right now - get the unlock code for my G1 - and post it on eBay tonight Dec 06 06:53:19 do you have root on your phone now? Dec 06 06:56:50 Me? yeah Dec 06 06:57:29 but... buying a new toy is always buying a new toy - even if said new toy is almost identical to your old new toy except it has funky graphics on it Dec 06 06:57:56 night all... be back tomorrow... Dec 06 06:58:06 or technically later today Dec 06 07:13:11 225$ shipping for dev device? Dec 06 07:13:21 mu? Dec 06 07:13:25 muthu_: ? Dec 06 07:13:41 am trying to order the developer device.. Dec 06 07:13:41 So that $25 + $399 + $225 total? Dec 06 07:13:45 muthu_: $399 includes free shipping, I thought. Dec 06 07:13:53 in the US Dec 06 07:13:57 nope, 225$ shipping for india Dec 06 07:14:04 muthu_: oh Dec 06 07:14:17 the shipping probably includes custom taxes Dec 06 07:14:27 romainguy_: ah Dec 06 07:14:31 hmm.. Dec 06 07:14:33 * romainguy_ remembers the custom taxes on his Japanese PSP :) Dec 06 07:14:40 muthu_: get a friend to forward it to you? Dec 06 07:14:52 ttuttle: yeah, i'll have to find someone to smuggle it for me Dec 06 07:14:58 ;) Dec 06 07:15:47 * ttuttle is not speaking on behalf of Google and does not encourage dodging customs taxes, etc... Dec 06 07:15:55 heh Dec 06 07:17:22 ttuttle: that's the dev device you have right? Dec 06 07:18:24 nice to have the developer devices available.. google is in the right direction Dec 06 07:19:03 muthu_: it's a }1, but configured as a dev device. Dec 06 07:19:07 * G1 Dec 06 07:19:20 ok Dec 06 07:19:36 it's not a G1 :) Dec 06 07:19:40 muthu_: So it's got an unlocked bootloader and radio. Also, it runs Google dogfood builds :) Dec 06 07:19:41 it has the same hardware though Dec 06 07:19:45 i still want purple/black camo :p Dec 06 07:19:57 romainguy_: It says G1 on the case and the boot screen. Dec 06 07:20:04 romainguy_: :P Dec 06 07:20:16 romainguy_: Okay, it's an AT&T G1 :P Dec 06 07:20:23 ttuttle: I'm talking about the Android Dev Device 1 Dec 06 07:20:28 romainguy_: oh okay Dec 06 07:20:46 romainguy_: it should be close to a G1, isn't it? Dec 06 07:20:49 romainguy_: I thought you were talking about mine. Dec 06 07:21:04 muthu_: It's the same thing, just with a different model name. Dec 06 07:21:21 yeah, thought so Dec 06 07:21:23 muthu_: same hardware Dec 06 07:21:29 G1 is T-Mobile's Dec 06 07:21:30 right Dec 06 07:21:39 romainguy_: Oh, do the Dev devices support AT&T 3G? Dec 06 07:22:03 no Dec 06 07:22:12 same hardware I said Dec 06 07:22:18 romainguy_: oh good, then I don't need to be jealous. Dec 06 07:22:40 you didn't pay for it, you cannot be jealous :) Dec 06 07:23:06 romainguy_: true Dec 06 07:23:22 romainguy_: /me <3 Google. Dec 06 07:23:31 romainguy_: It's a wonderful phone. Dec 06 07:23:45 I wish I had a prod device ^^ Dec 06 07:24:06 romainguy_: :( Dec 06 07:24:18 one without huge etched serial numbers ;-) Dec 06 07:24:39 romainguy_: Get them to send one to Thomas Buttle, then I'll send it back to you ;-) Dec 06 07:25:22 Buttle's bootloader version wasn't on Tuttle's invoice. It was an honest mistake. Dec 06 07:25:31 swetland: ;) Dec 06 07:25:49 * swetland calls Central Services Dec 06 07:26:19 and there's the new SDK too ^^ Dec 06 07:26:47 romainguy_: oh yeah, I need to download that. Dec 06 07:26:47 lot of android training is required in bangalore Dec 06 07:27:01 muthu_: what do you mean? Dec 06 07:27:05 * swetland wonders how long until somebody ports openmoko to the devphone ^^ Dec 06 07:27:12 looks like android development is picking up in bangalore india Dec 06 07:27:18 muthu_: ah Dec 06 07:27:19 swetland: I heard that if you press the right sequence of keystrokes on the G1, you can get it to make a phone call Dec 06 07:27:26 swetland: is the same true of the dev phone? Dec 06 07:27:36 xsdg: foul lies! Dec 06 07:27:45 xsdg: no, maybe in android 2.0. Dec 06 07:27:55 swetland: I heard last week from an old friend of mine I didn't talk to in the past few years, he's working full time on OpenMoko stuff Dec 06 07:28:01 writing yet another UI toolkit ^^ Dec 06 07:28:16 you can never have too many ui toolkits Dec 06 07:28:34 swetland: can I start a new one for Android 2? :) Dec 06 07:28:35 someone should make a UI toolkit called "GIT" Dec 06 07:28:43 "Generally Integrated Toolkit" Dec 06 07:28:49 swetland: android needs another few Dec 06 07:29:05 romain: only if it's backed by GL and designed for hw accel from day one Dec 06 07:29:06 * romainguy_ still wants to write a scenegraph/physics engine based UI toolkit Dec 06 07:29:10 if so, you have my blessing Dec 06 07:29:11 swetland: that was implied Dec 06 07:29:37 romainguy_: I could help you with that physics engine - depending upon when you wanted to do it Dec 06 07:29:39 romainguy_: only if you write the physics engine :o) Dec 06 07:29:56 swetland: so how are things going? Dec 06 07:29:57 well GridView almost has a physics engine inside ^^ Dec 06 07:30:01 How complicated / accurate do you want to get? Dec 06 07:30:06 * RyeBrye majored in computational physics Dec 06 07:30:15 RyeBrye: cool Dec 06 07:30:27 RyeBrye: well, clearly, folks are going to want to use their phones for N-body simulations Dec 06 07:30:28 which really means nothing as far as physics simulations are concerned, but it SOUNDS like it should :) Dec 06 07:30:37 RyeBrye: how do you think Sky Map figures out where the stars are? Dec 06 07:30:41 I did tinker with the Open Dynamics Engine for a while Dec 06 07:30:42 RyeBrye: it's to layout widgets so... :) Dec 06 07:30:56 Oh, you probably can just fake it all then Dec 06 07:31:21 well... by fake it I mean you woudln't want to give widgets mass and momentum and joints or anything, right? Dec 06 07:31:29 that's where you wrong :) Dec 06 07:31:31 like... no ragdoll widgets? Dec 06 07:31:32 you never know :p Dec 06 07:31:35 RyeBrye: yes, the widgets like a toke every once in a while Dec 06 07:31:48 especially when it comes to animating layouts/transitions, that could be useful Dec 06 07:32:07 are you talking 3D or just 2D plane physics? Dec 06 07:32:10 2D Dec 06 07:32:18 Yeah, 2d is a lot simpler Dec 06 07:32:23 romainguy_: of course, you could have all the widgets on a mat with some friction, and then run the accelerometer 24/7 Dec 06 07:32:25 well, 1 dimension simpler :) Dec 06 07:32:29 RyeBrye: did you know that listview uses the coefficient of friction of leather on ice expressed in pixels per second? :) Dec 06 07:32:41 RyeBrye: you can actually do rotation in 2d Dec 06 07:32:44 That's cool, I didn't look at it much Dec 06 07:32:55 romainguy_: haha Dec 06 07:33:06 (maybe it's not leather on ice anymore, I changed that coefficient too many times to recall, but it's a real coefficient :) Dec 06 07:33:28 Yeah, using a real one that closely matches the sensation you are trying to express would make sense Dec 06 07:33:29 romainguy_: what's the spring constant for the app drawer? Dec 06 07:33:37 it doesn't use a spring Dec 06 07:33:50 I did use spring equations to implement a bouncing drag and drop once though Dec 06 07:34:05 (you drop an item on your desktop, it bounces a little when it falls and hits the desktop :) Dec 06 07:34:10 romainguy_: I should find some excuse to get you to solve the Navier-Stokes eqns Dec 06 07:34:19 I hate maths Dec 06 07:34:24 bah, math is awesome Dec 06 07:34:26 I think I did nothing but spring equations for an entire year in college. Dec 06 07:34:28 no Dec 06 07:34:34 or variations of things involving springs Dec 06 07:34:35 RyeBrye: ouch :) Dec 06 07:34:38 romainguy_: what's better than math? Dec 06 07:34:41 nothing Dec 06 07:34:44 pretty much everything Dec 06 07:35:26 including steamed fennel Dec 06 07:35:28 WEll... htat's a bit of an exaggeration - but yeah, lots of different driven oscillators and stuff Dec 06 07:35:29 and it's pretty bad :) Dec 06 07:35:39 steamed fennel? nah - you have to toast it and crush it Dec 06 07:35:44 then put it on pork Dec 06 07:35:46 MARMITE! Dec 06 07:35:49 (well, fennel seed) Dec 06 07:35:49 romainguy_: I think ListView is now using the coefficient of friction of cold Mexican Coke on a fake wooden desk Dec 06 07:35:53 RyeBrye: I guess that's better than all the project management I did in school Dec 06 07:35:55 xsdg: spread thinly on toast Dec 06 07:36:04 jham: it could very well be the case ;-))) Dec 06 07:36:15 .oO("maybe I'm thinking of Bovril") Dec 06 07:36:22 jham: I'm gonna miss our Mexican coke dude Dec 06 07:36:29 oh wait Dec 06 07:36:32 romainguy_: Jumex? Dec 06 07:36:36 in France coke uses real sugar too :) Dec 06 07:36:50 This is just a snippet from one of my homework assignments that I thought mildly interesting: http://www.ryebrye.com/blog/2006/06/15/what-are-the-different-vibrational-modes-on-a-circular-drumhead/ Dec 06 07:37:14 argh Dec 06 07:37:37 RyeBrye: you blog about your twits? Dec 06 07:37:49 romainguy_: you mean my kids? Dec 06 07:38:13 romainguy_: or my tweets? I just have my twitter feeding my sidebar just so I don't feel obligated to update my blog that often Dec 06 07:38:26 tweets, however you call the stuff from twitter Dec 06 07:38:35 romainguy_: `dict twit` :o) Dec 06 07:38:38 I was talking about the weekly posts with a bunch of twitter stuff inside Dec 06 07:38:39 my kids would also apply Dec 06 07:38:52 Yeah, auto generated digest Dec 06 07:39:16 It mainly gives me motivation to post at least once a week because I'd look really lame if I just had two of those posts back to back Dec 06 07:39:22 romainguy_: It's not just the sugar, but also the glass bottle Dec 06 07:39:35 jham: true true Dec 06 07:40:53 RyeBrye: I dimly recall learning why drums don't generally generate a musical note, and those things that _do_ generate a musical note tend to be one-dimensional (more or less). Steel drums are still a mystery, though Dec 06 07:41:53 offby1: - good point. I never thought about steel drums - but I have a good contact with the head of the acoustics department - who is also the chair of the physics department... I could bug him and see his answer. Dec 06 07:42:08 offby1: steel drums are... metal... Dec 06 07:42:21 Right, but the musical pitch to them Dec 06 07:42:22 offby1: the head isn't something stretched over a frame Dec 06 07:42:51 yeah, but the vibrations have to propogate - and the constraints are similar in how they can move if it's circular Dec 06 07:42:57 RyeBrye: they tune them, likely by changing the shape and thickness of the metal Dec 06 07:43:03 RyeBrye: steel drums have pockets Dec 06 07:43:22 RyeBrye: it's not like they just cut a steel trashcan in half :o) Dec 06 07:43:38 Steel drums are hammered into that shape by hand, they spend hours tuning them manually Dec 06 07:43:48 http://hotpans.se/pan/tuning/theory.19.html#RTFToC2 Dec 06 07:44:19 rtft0c2? read the fucking table of contents too? Dec 06 07:44:27 lol Dec 06 07:44:30 Yes :) Dec 06 07:44:32 nice Dec 06 07:44:37 hahaha awesome Dec 06 07:44:39 that was a guess :S Dec 06 07:44:44 * DarkriftX checks the url Dec 06 07:44:44 either that or they got it out of an RTF doc? Dec 06 07:47:19 sigh Dec 06 07:47:21 Rye: you may find the acoustics of the tabla are interesting too :) Dec 06 07:47:23 romainguy_: not allowed Dec 06 07:47:24 so many duplicates in the bug tracker Dec 06 07:47:41 you should outsource that dup finding to someone Dec 06 07:47:55 RyeBrye: hey; need a free job? Dec 06 07:48:04 basically, the add mass to the drum head in such a way to align the different modes more harmonically Dec 06 07:48:04 * RyeBrye ducks Dec 06 07:48:13 RyeBrye: I'm not looking for dups, I just monitor the new bugs, and notice they are dups :) Dec 06 07:48:15 JesusFreke: that's interesting Dec 06 07:48:25 so you actually get a "pitched" sound, when hit correctly Dec 06 07:48:47 JesusFreke: can they do other things to make the sound yaw and roll also? Dec 06 07:48:50 I summarize that page as: "Nobody really knows why steel drums sound the way they do" Dec 06 07:49:03 * offby1 slaps xsdg upside the haid Dec 06 07:49:13 :o) Dec 06 07:49:18 romainguy_: You could create a series of menial tasks and have someone calculate the $ / dev hour each task is worth - and then find some economical way to make it cheaper to reward other people with random dev phone giveaways for slaving away at the project Dec 06 07:49:21 xsdg, no. they haven't figured out how to put ailerons on the drumhead yet.. Dec 06 07:49:23 :D Dec 06 07:49:36 * xsdg high-fives JesusFreke Dec 06 07:49:45 kind of like how the national park service gives out Volunteer passes for a year - but you hve to do 1000 hours or something to get one (and buying one only costs $85) Dec 06 07:49:49 RyeBrye: or I could just use all that time to actually fix bugs :)) Dec 06 07:50:24 romainguy_: no. the direct approach is never the proper approach. Dec 06 07:50:38 ;) Dec 06 07:50:46 RyeBrye: my job is to fix the bugs, not to manager the bug tracker :)) Dec 06 07:50:51 -r Dec 06 07:51:21 If you want to beta test how a program of gifting dev hardware would influence something - I will be a guinnea pig :) Dec 06 07:51:52 RyeBrye: if from now on you fix all the ListView bugs, I'll give you my device :) Dec 06 07:52:55 romainguy_: hmm. do what Adobe does in their bug tracker for some of their Flex stuff. Mark it as "wontfix" and give some real long winded explanation explaining why the way it exists now is because of some kind of higher understanding of the universe Dec 06 07:53:32 RyeBrye: we have that too, you just haven't seen it yet :) Dec 06 07:55:05 I found a few bugs in Flex 3 beta and submitted them when I was still new to the Flex framework - they were almost all eventually marked as "wontfix" with some long explanation - but I just figured I was the problem... but slowly over the past year or two I've found about a dozen blog posts linking to people ranting about whatever specifc bug it was I reported Dec 06 07:55:23 minor stuff... like they changed their Panel container and completely broke behavior... etc. Dec 06 07:55:29 Anyway... I felt vindicated I guess :) Dec 06 07:56:08 I have a couple of friends who work on the Flex SDK :) Dec 06 07:56:21 actually I'm giving a talk with one them next week Dec 06 07:56:29 I'll let him know he sucks :p Dec 06 07:56:36 Yes, if he worked on Panel, he probably does suck :) Dec 06 07:56:47 Flex 4 seems cool. Dec 06 07:56:59 he's writing the new Animations, Effects and Transitions APIs Dec 06 07:57:10 Flash Catalyst looks just awesome Dec 06 07:57:21 They gave out a prerelease to people at MAX Dec 06 07:57:29 yeah I saw Dec 06 07:57:32 I had a pass but couldn't go Dec 06 07:57:34 I think I can say I've used it Dec 06 07:57:53 that said I guess I coul djust ask for it Dec 06 07:58:11 Yeah, they have a closed prerelease that you could easily get on with your connections to get the latest and greatest Dec 06 07:58:36 it served me well in the past :)) Dec 06 07:58:50 I'm glad I didn't have to pay for Flex Builder Dec 06 07:59:03 well.... there are several ways of accomplishing that objective :) Dec 06 07:59:21 +legally Dec 06 07:59:24 :) Dec 06 07:59:39 Flex Builder 4 adds such advanced coding stuff like... wait for it... generating getters and setters! Dec 06 07:59:44 the Adobe employees discounts on the Creative Suite and Photoshop are also pretty col Dec 06 07:59:46 cool Dec 06 07:59:59 yeah Flex Builder is nice but it lags far behind free Java IDEs Dec 06 08:00:11 I haven't tried Flex support in IntelliJ yet Dec 06 08:00:12 Yeah. IntelliJ is throwing its weight into the Flex stuff nicely Dec 06 08:00:20 It does basic refactoring already Dec 06 08:00:51 It handles the actionscript parts of it much faster than Flex Builder - plus doing a simple rename refactoring doesn't take 5 minutes Dec 06 08:01:19 Is your friend involved with the android bit? Dec 06 08:02:37 If they are doing a closed beta of it, I'd really like to get on it - since my day job right now is doing a big flex project I really want to see it on a phone... etc. - plus I CAN keep my mouth shut about stuff if I have to :) Dec 06 08:05:02 no he works on Flex itself, not Flash Dec 06 08:05:49 Tell him that people who write UI frameworks for use on VMs are posers ;) Dec 06 08:09:06 hi channel Dec 06 08:13:23 is it possible to associate the Gmail and calendar apps with multiple gmail accounts? Dec 06 08:13:27 erm, google accounts& Dec 06 08:34:04 hello Dec 06 08:40:33 shhhh Dec 06 08:40:42 be wery wery qwiet Dec 06 08:40:43 morning Dec 06 08:41:04 we're hunting wabbits! Dec 06 08:41:05 are you hunting wabbits jf? Dec 06 08:41:09 ; Dec 06 08:41:10 ) Dec 06 08:47:54 Hi guys! Dec 06 08:48:36 I've a couple fo questions... does android let the user access a linux terminal? Dec 06 08:49:05 and does anybody of you know who ported Android to the Nokia N810? Dec 06 08:55:06 theres a terminal emulator in the market. Dec 06 08:55:15 and yes. apparently. Dec 06 08:55:22 apparently? Dec 06 08:55:36 i saw a video Dec 06 08:55:40 but thats all Dec 06 08:55:42 so who knows Dec 06 08:58:19 ok Neverender1thanks for the info Dec 06 08:58:33 and... wait, can Android run on x86 ? Dec 06 08:58:55 not at the moment Dec 06 09:00:08 as far as i know.. Dec 06 09:01:02 http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS3641439368.html?kc=rss Dec 06 09:03:14 many thanks Neverender1 Dec 06 09:05:22 np Dec 06 10:10:10 hi there Dec 06 10:10:31 does anybody know specifics on the Android Dev Phone 1 concerning shipping? Dec 06 10:11:09 the price is nice, but adding VAT and import taxes tends to make it really expensive Dec 06 10:31:12 rb2k: to where? Dec 06 10:33:50 germany Dec 06 10:33:56 forgot to mention :) Dec 06 10:35:42 the question is weather google is able to start shipping inside the EU or not Dec 06 10:39:10 there is a list of supported countries on the info page... I don't know what the shipping would be to EU, but to Singapore it's US$120 :-( Dec 06 10:39:43 hm Dec 06 10:39:57 I guess you can only find that out by signing up for 25 usd? Dec 06 10:40:13 (germany is in the list btw) Dec 06 10:40:25 yes, Germany is on the list, and yes, you can only find the actual shipping cost by signing up and going most of the way through ordering one Dec 06 10:40:41 oh... ok :-/ Dec 06 10:41:07 kinda sucks Dec 06 10:41:09 i just got a phone Dec 06 10:41:10 wheeeeeeeeee Dec 06 10:41:14 weeeeeeeee! Dec 06 10:41:30 and immediately left!!!! Dec 06 10:41:53 I think he started running and didn't realize that his laptop has a power cord Dec 06 10:41:57 heh Dec 06 10:43:03 but the shipping part really sucks... that would be a difference of 424 usd to approx 600 usd Dec 06 10:43:12 (adding VAT, Shipping and import taxes) Dec 06 10:45:44 it does suck... Dec 06 10:46:11 it was pointed out that they are using the same company for fulfillment that the OLPC G1G1 programme used last year... and that's not a good thing Dec 06 10:46:58 :( Dec 06 10:49:34 on the other hand, the phone is cool :-D Dec 06 10:50:02 I already have an iPhone which is kinda cool... Dec 06 10:50:06 I just dislike objective c Dec 06 10:50:08 :P Dec 06 10:50:40 (not that I think java is particularily great... but it's ok :P) Dec 06 10:52:11 I think my umts connection just crapped out on me Dec 06 10:52:35 hm, strange Dec 06 11:07:32 hi Dec 06 11:53:13 is there anyway to get root on RC30 yet? Dec 06 11:56:47 no Dec 06 12:18:59 hello Dec 06 12:19:40 hello Dec 06 12:57:56 From the Android SDK download page, I can only find there is a i386 version of the Android SDK for Linux. Where's the 64Bit version? Dec 06 12:59:28 they have 64bit drivers for vista on the xda forum Dec 06 12:59:58 dual: and are you using a pure 64 bit linux distro or is it multilib? Dec 06 13:00:14 also, buy a mac ;> Dec 06 13:00:38 Ubuntu Intrepid Ibex. I guess I can run 32bit, can't I? But I just wanted to know if there was a 64bit version available Dec 06 13:01:13 i would imagen the 32 bit works fine, unless there is a kernel module Dec 06 13:01:23 64bit? Dec 06 13:01:36 Just downloaded it, going to try it later today. Dec 06 13:01:42 android support 32bit linux distribution officially. Dec 06 13:01:48 dual: the mac didn't even require a driver, i just ran the excutable Dec 06 13:01:50 but. Dec 06 13:02:13 You can install 32bit android sdk in your 64bit linux distribution like fedora, ubuntu. Dec 06 13:02:28 invain: I hoped so Dec 06 13:02:57 of course... Dec 06 13:03:08 where are you from? Dec 06 13:03:16 monkeys Dec 06 13:03:22 Norway. How does that matter? :P Dec 06 13:03:26 in my case, I am living south korea. and my company is samsung. Dec 06 13:03:41 no.. THis isnot matter. Dec 06 13:04:15 I haven't got an android phone though. They don't sell any in Norway yet. Dec 06 13:09:43 oh.. Dec 06 13:09:45 dual.. Dec 06 13:09:48 me too.. Dec 06 13:10:26 but, developers and mania bought g1 phone in south korea. Dec 06 13:11:08 I hope Nokia comes with a relatively cheap Android phone soon, though it's not likely to happen :( Dec 06 13:13:03 g1 phone cost how much in your contry :P Dec 06 13:13:54 G1? Dec 06 13:13:59 ta Dec 06 13:14:00 ya Dec 06 13:14:10 its cost ~$800 here Dec 06 13:14:21 you can query about price in ebay website. Dec 06 13:14:37 i bought g1 phoen $300. Dec 06 13:14:49 g1 isn't available in Norway, I'll have to buy it from the U.S. to get it. Dec 06 13:15:02 and We will mee 2nd android phone(agora) on Jan-29 , 2009. Dec 06 13:16:44 dual.. you can use skype with wifi using tmobile roaming servier of norway. Dec 06 13:16:57 In my case, i am suing this method in south korea. Dec 06 13:17:32 but, I am not think that wifi support in south korea. Dec 06 13:17:43 But there aren't wifi zones available everywhere. Dec 06 13:17:49 because I am interested in application(*.apk) in g1 phone. Dec 06 13:22:46 anyone know an easy way to search for an unformatted number with the contacts content provider? Dec 06 13:32:53 there isn't going to be a nokia android phone any time soon - they're pretty committed to symbian and maemo Dec 06 13:33:21 and there is no skype for android (yet?) Dec 06 13:34:32 i want a netbook Dec 06 13:36:46 I've got a couple... Dec 06 13:42:27 although im concerned that eclipse won't be fun to run on one :) Dec 06 13:45:22 lol, of course i probably sholdnt be developing on a netbook Dec 06 14:22:36 whats this about? Dec 06 14:22:38 http://www.engadget.com/2008/12/05/sim-hardware-unlocked-android-dev-phone-1-surfaces-for-399/ Dec 06 14:23:01 Dougie187: fully unlocked devices. Dec 06 14:23:10 its pretty neat. Dec 06 14:23:19 http://www.engadget.com/2008/12/05/android-1-0-gets-ported-to-the-nokia-n810/ Dec 06 14:23:20 and that? Dec 06 14:23:37 infobot: devphones Dec 06 14:23:38 extra, extra, read all about it, devphones is a phone with magical powers and will make all your wildest dreams come true. You can read about them here: http://code.google.com/android/dev-devices.html - in order to buy one, you have to pay a $25 to be in the "developer club" and then you can get into the back room where they keep them behind a curtain of lava. very expensive to ship outside the US, or sporting this: http://tinyurl.com/54sxg2 Dec 06 14:24:12 Dougie187: some people are manking progress porting Android to the N810 from source. Dec 06 14:24:23 thats pretty cool. Dec 06 14:29:36 Leeds: word Dec 06 14:54:13 The device currently costs $399 (USD) (including free shipping in the US), and will be available for purchase in 18 international markets, including the US, UK, Germany, Japan, India, Canada, France, Taiwan, Spain, Australia, Singapore, Switzerland, Netherlands, Austria, Sweden, Finland, Poland, and Hungary. Dec 06 15:05:07 so other than the backplate and the bootloader, is there any difference between a 'dev' g1 and a retail g1 with unlock code? Dec 06 15:06:03 I think that it's a slightly more recent build, so it might have a few extra bugfixes, but the differences should be fairly minor. Dec 06 15:06:21 is it the harbinger of updated OSS trees? :) Dec 06 15:07:28 Well, the roadmap still says "this quarter" for the next big OSS push (and hopefully the last big one), so, in a way, yes. Dec 06 15:07:45 heh Dec 06 15:07:51 it'll be a christmas gift :) Dec 06 15:07:53 For sure, for framework developers like you, the two go hand-in-hand. Dec 06 15:07:58 yah Dec 06 15:08:44 * Disconnect might just give up on his frontend app and use mileage, focus on hacking the backend stuff (bt, vpn, blahblahblah) Dec 06 15:09:24 The last thing I want right now is to have to tell a contributor "sorry, your change will be so hard to merge with all the work that was done in secret that we won't accept it now, please comeback when we have a newer source available and you've spent some time re-working your change". Dec 06 15:09:28 hey. you have any knowledge (or willingness to test :) ..) hciattach speeds? i think we're gonna need >115200 anyway for stereo headsets and such.. Dec 06 15:09:44 no idea about that. Dec 06 15:09:55 yah that would cause a ton of trouble/lasting bad feelings Dec 06 15:15:21 morning Dec 06 15:15:29 Hey SanMehat Dec 06 15:15:43 hey jbq sup Dec 06 15:15:55 Not much. Excited about the dev phones. Dec 06 15:16:20 yeah thats great news Dec 06 15:16:55 @ Dec 06 15:17:04 bradleyy: ? Dec 06 15:17:51 sorry, using connectbot and trying to figure out how to send an alt-something Dec 06 15:17:57 ahh Dec 06 15:18:09 don't think it's possible Dec 06 15:21:25 Disconnect: re Dec 06 15:21:30 which is a bummer. since i can't switch windows in my irc client Dec 06 15:21:55 :( Dec 06 15:22:01 bradleyy: i think you can use esc number instead of alt.. Dec 06 15:22:07 but #connectbot might know Dec 06 15:22:22 Disconnect: we have a new driver for the High speed UART but its not quite ready yet Dec 06 15:22:39 ah ok. so its not something i can fix :( but i appreciate the note :) Dec 06 15:22:50 no problem :) Dec 06 15:23:04 * SanMehat is really looking forward to working closer with the community now that the dev phones are available Dec 06 15:23:33 me too Dec 06 15:25:17 Disconnect: i believe there is some trickiness around power management that we're working on Dec 06 15:25:46 if i promise not to bitch about battery life when using it can i have it to play with? :) Dec 06 15:27:51 SanMehat: morning! Dec 06 15:28:01 I wonder how the availability of dev phones will impact the efforts to get Android on N810 and FreeRunner. Dec 06 15:28:04 hey man Dec 06 15:29:00 jbq: i'd say initially negatively (platform hackers will wander off to a known-working platform) but overall probably it'll be very good - more people familiar with it than otherwise. Dec 06 15:29:22 SanMehat: how's it going? Dec 06 15:29:35 ttuttle: its going pretty decent man Dec 06 15:29:52 SanMehat: cool Dec 06 15:30:08 Disconnect: yes, I think your guess is good. It'd be good to have devices with different form factors for developers to test their apps on. Dec 06 15:30:29 SanMehat: yesterday was my last day of classes -- just 3 finals left and I get to go home! Dec 06 15:30:46 can anyone lend credence to the .au phone? the pics are obviously shopped, and i've never heard from any of the devs here or on the lists.. Dec 06 15:30:59 ttuttle: yay! Dec 06 15:31:02 ttuttle: come be my intern Dec 06 15:31:25 http://code.google.com/android/dev-devices.html Dec 06 15:31:26 .... Dec 06 15:31:32 mikey|: yup Dec 06 15:31:38 * mikey| ponders whether he should cancel his contract Dec 06 15:31:52 SanMehat: mail me a laptop with VPN and I will write you code. Dec 06 15:32:00 still within the 14 day period Dec 06 15:32:04 Disconnect: we've released the 1.0 source code as apache2, so anyone can use that and commercialize a phone based on it without keeping Google or anybody else in the loop. Dec 06 15:32:22 ttuttle: hmmm. Dec 06 15:32:23 fair enough, but that doesn't make it actually feasable :) Dec 06 15:32:54 mikey|: if you want the cool backplate, i would. otherwise just wait and keep root and a little birdie tells me you can upgrade from one to the other. Dec 06 15:32:58 SanMehat: or, since it's OSS, just give me a list of bugreports to fix ;) Dec 06 15:33:04 it all depends on how many engineers you have to write the missing pieces. Dec 06 15:33:12 Disconnect: I dont wanna be stuck in a contract Dec 06 15:33:19 the real question is Dec 06 15:33:26 can we pull the bootloader off the dev device Dec 06 15:33:27 i would be paying much more then if I just this device Dec 06 15:33:30 and stick it on the retail ones Dec 06 15:33:30 then you shouldn't have signed one :) but sounds like you want to swap Dec 06 15:34:05 infernix: probably. or at least, something equivalent can be done. but don't f it up or you'll have a -serious- bricking problem. Dec 06 15:34:05 the only reason i got a contract was because i needed/wanted the g1 Dec 06 15:34:16 otherwise, i've been contract free phone wise Dec 06 15:34:25 mikey|: for $400 you could buy it w/o contract anyway Dec 06 15:34:30 from? Dec 06 15:34:30 even before the dev devices Dec 06 15:34:32 tmob Dec 06 15:34:34 ttuttle: Disconnect yeah if you blow your boot loader you're done without JTAG Dec 06 15:34:38 er Dec 06 15:34:41 /sttuttle/ Dec 06 15:34:41 heh Dec 06 15:34:44 Heh. Dec 06 15:34:50 Disconnect: eh? sim free from tmob? Dec 06 15:35:00 * ttuttle vanishes in a puff of regex. Dec 06 15:35:24 i need help developeing a app like gotv Dec 06 15:35:40 can some one help me with that Dec 06 15:35:45 ? Dec 06 15:36:11 http://www.play.com/Mobiles/Mobile/4-/6884299/HTC-G1-Sim-Free-Unlocked-Mobile-Phone/Product.html Dec 06 15:36:22 yet no price tag or buy button :( Dec 06 15:36:39 android source tarball is not available? Dec 06 15:36:55 kennyyu: you should use git and repo to clone the source Dec 06 15:37:06 ya, but my connection to git:// seems very slow......... Dec 06 15:37:34 *nod* Dec 06 15:37:42 do you want the whole OS or just part of it? Dec 06 15:38:01 You can download tarballs for the individual projects. Check the snapshot link here: http://android.git.kernel.org/?p=platform/frameworks/base.git;a=tree and replicate for each project. Dec 06 15:38:02 mikey|: walk in and ask (or call up and ask) Dec 06 15:38:18 obra: i'm new to it... in fact i just want the emulator + the webkit sources Dec 06 15:38:49 but not sure whether there are any inter-dependencies in between these 2 and the other projects.. Dec 06 15:38:55 Disconnect: i've got an RC30 here and an RC28 on the way. with the dev showing up i feel kind of screwed Dec 06 15:39:12 kennyyu: depends... do you want to compile it, or just read the source? Dec 06 15:39:13 kennyyu: ok. for the emulator, you want to grab the SDK Dec 06 15:39:18 especially with the myfaves crap. i cant consciously sell it to someone without a t-mo subscription here in the netherlands Dec 06 15:39:20 or at least start there Dec 06 15:39:21 infernix: yah. they did make vague statements about a dev device "someday". but i agree, they pretty well fucked over the platform hackers. Dec 06 15:39:36 jbq: yes i'll have to compile it Dec 06 15:39:46 kennyyu: then you need to download everything. Dec 06 15:39:46 infernix: myfaves crap? it works fine w/o all that. Dec 06 15:39:51 obra: alright. then the binary SDK you mean? Dec 06 15:40:00 right. I presume you don't want to build the emulator Dec 06 15:40:03 jbq: hmm.. Dec 06 15:40:08 Disconnect: myfaves sends SMS to number 453. this costs major bucks when not in the US and/or not on T-Mobile Dec 06 15:40:08 but just to use the emulator to build the browser Dec 06 15:40:10 * Disconnect hasn't got a myfaves plan, just standard tmob family (well, standard-from-a-couple-years-ago with freebies they don't offer anymore :) ..) Dec 06 15:40:26 obra: oh great, but how can i? Dec 06 15:40:43 just to pull webkit snapshot? Dec 06 15:40:44 kennyyu: the emulator is part of the binary sdk. start by grabbing that Dec 06 15:40:45 sweet Dec 06 15:40:51 then grab.. (hang on) Dec 06 15:41:33 http://android.git.kernel.org/?p=platform/packages/apps/Browser.git;a=snapshot;h=ba6d7b853c32ad6c3be26c443daa61f322bcfdc2;sf=tgz Dec 06 15:41:40 and see if that's good enough for you to build with Dec 06 15:41:42 infernix: you can up the rc28 to modded uk image (no myfaves) Dec 06 15:41:59 (I don't know the internals of the browser and don't know if you'll need other system libs) Dec 06 15:42:04 Disconnect: which is the one i'd like to keep then eh.. so i'm still f-ed until i can break the RC30 and sell that one Dec 06 15:42:28 obra: understood. i've got to try it out. thanks Dec 06 15:42:30 ! Dec 06 15:42:32 :) Dec 06 15:42:39 infernix: does your local t-mobile not provide sim-unlocks after you've been with them for x months? Dec 06 15:42:43 kennyyu: no problem Dec 06 15:42:43 the browser relies on so many components that by the time you've pulled in all the dependencies you might as well have pulled everything. Dec 06 15:42:55 obra: for phones I bought over Ebay in the US? (i'm in .nl) Dec 06 15:42:57 i doubt it Dec 06 15:43:01 obra: its not a sim unlock problem, its a "this app does Evil" problem Dec 06 15:43:14 infernix: that would be an issue, yes Dec 06 15:43:17 (maybe you can do without the kernel source code, though, since there's a prebuilt binary) Dec 06 15:43:21 (i know, i know, its not 'secure' to let a handset owner disable apps on his own device....) Dec 06 15:43:47 jbq: 'by the time you've pulled in all the dependencies' <-- will it be done automatically during the make? Dec 06 15:44:02 kennyyu: no, you need to repo sync them. Dec 06 15:44:44 Disconnect: rang and asked, it's not sim free Dec 06 15:44:46 if I do a repo sync right now ... how can I tell which rc number it currently is? Dec 06 15:44:47 jbq: hmm, but acutlaly i've tried for 2-3 days without a success... the connection seems freezes so often Dec 06 15:44:58 :( Dec 06 15:45:03 or rather what is the current rc? Dec 06 15:45:11 mikey|: neither is the contract one. Dec 06 15:45:14 * obra needs to spend some quality time with his android app again soon. Dec 06 15:45:19 its not sim unlocked, its contract free. Dec 06 15:45:24 is there a web page showing the current rc number? Dec 06 15:45:38 jbq: you don't have the problem with repo on your side? Dec 06 15:45:43 I mean, you can try downloading the tarballs, but in that case I'll still recommend getting every single one of them. Dec 06 15:46:03 kennyyu: usually not. But Google's main office has good connectivity ;-) Dec 06 15:46:10 jbq: ya i understand Dec 06 15:47:11 jbq: hmm.. my dorm has blocked quite a few form of connections seemingly. it might help me a lot if it will be available as an http-connection.... ;) Dec 06 15:47:14 what is the latest rc number, and how does one find this out? Dec 06 15:47:54 pfft: http://code.google.com/android/download_list.html perhaps? Dec 06 15:48:00 (my dorm's internet sucks. even ftp-connection requires me to log-in to their vpn first...) Dec 06 15:48:06 ttuttle: thanks Dec 06 15:48:22 pfft: There are other RCs, of course, that you can't see :) Dec 06 15:48:25 kennyyu: any useful internet cafe nearby? ;) Dec 06 15:48:34 ssh tunnel? Dec 06 15:48:38 then dynamic forwarding? Dec 06 15:48:40 then point everything to that? Dec 06 15:48:55 ttuttle: i dont see any rc number ... am i missing something? Dec 06 15:49:00 kennyyu: could you post that on repo-discuss? git (the tool) is capable of working over http (the protocol), so somewhere in theory is should be possible to configure the server and/or repo to go over http. Dec 06 15:49:05 obra: I suppose Starbucks are ;) Dec 06 15:49:30 kennyyu: that often works Dec 06 15:49:46 pfft: Doesn't the filename have "-rc2" in it? Dec 06 15:50:05 no ... i'm not talking about the sdk Dec 06 15:50:14 obra: but if not i'll waste the $$ for a cup of coffee purchase :P Dec 06 15:50:19 ttuttle: i'm talking about the code that comes on current phones Dec 06 15:50:23 pfft: Oh. Dec 06 15:50:26 pfft: Buy one and look? Dec 06 15:50:35 ttuttle: look where? Dec 06 15:50:35 jbq: no problem. Dec 06 15:50:37 kennyyu: you're in hong kong, right? if you're desperate, there's great free wifi at the airport Dec 06 15:50:41 pfft: Seettings > About phone Dec 06 15:50:48 pfft: It should list it. Dec 06 15:50:53 ttuttle: thanks Dec 06 15:51:18 hello ppl Dec 06 15:51:43 obra: heh, how come you know i'm in HK? the airport is far away...:) but it's okay i'll find a starbucks Dec 06 15:51:57 (starbucks are everywhere now) Dec 06 15:52:08 im a noob that would like learn to start programming makeing apps for the android first Dec 06 15:52:09 "# The android.jar in this SDK release now includes several classes that were missing from the previous SDK. " Dec 06 15:52:12 kennyyu: DNS lookups are everyone's friend ;) But yeah. I travel way too much. Dec 06 15:52:13 though not as many as mcdonald's Dec 06 15:52:19 does that include text.util.regex? Dec 06 15:52:25 can anyone help me Dec 06 15:52:26 ? Dec 06 15:52:33 with? Dec 06 15:52:45 heh Dec 06 15:52:50 Do you know Java? Best to start with some basic Java tutorials. Dec 06 15:53:08 ttuttle: is there any way to get setting running in the emulator? Dec 06 15:53:14 i play js on some of my websites Dec 06 15:53:20 ttuttle: errm ... settings Dec 06 15:53:25 i herd its not the same Dec 06 15:53:33 akuma55: if you don't know java, start with some very simple java command-line programs on your computer. Dec 06 15:53:36 JS isn't the same as Java, so you'll have to start with the basics again. Dec 06 15:53:49 jbq: sorry. where is the repo-discuss that you mentioned? Dec 06 15:54:12 http://groups.google.com/group/repo-discuss Dec 06 15:54:20 ttuttle: when i go to settings in the emulator it says "unsupported action" ... wtf? Dec 06 15:54:24 oh ya thanks Dec 06 15:54:26 What is the license on the artwork used in the android apps? Can I use it (menu items and such) as needed? Dec 06 15:54:30 icons* Dec 06 15:54:34 (to jbq and obra) Dec 06 15:54:41 :) Dec 06 15:54:50 A lot of them aren't in android.R.drawable. Dec 06 15:54:51 anybody think you could show me some basics Dec 06 15:55:01 kennyyu: good luck! Dec 06 15:55:18 when i go to settings in the emulator it says "unsupported action" ... anyone know how to get that working in the emulator? Dec 06 15:55:41 obra: ;) Dec 06 15:55:42 aduma55: Here is "Hello World". You should start with that. http://www.javacoffeebreak.com/java101/java101.html Dec 06 15:55:44 TiberiumX: if they're in the android source tree, you can re-use them (after copying them) in your app. If not, don't copy them, they're not free to be re-used. Dec 06 15:55:58 pfft: SDK 1.0r1 or 1.0r2? Dec 06 15:56:55 jbq: how can I check the ... oh its 1.0_r1 Dec 06 15:57:07 jbq: lemme guess ... r2? Dec 06 15:57:23 pfft: yes 1.0r1 doesn't have settings. they *might* be in 1.0r2 but I'm not sure. Dec 06 15:57:46 Maybe someone with 1.0r2 could confirm that for you... (I don't have it on my machine) Dec 06 15:57:58 Is there a set of release notes for r2? What's changed? Dec 06 15:58:10 TiberiumX, the thing is with programming is i never get pass the hello world like i just dont know what to do next Dec 06 15:58:25 pfft: oh. if you've got the emulator, the rc is in the filename. Dec 06 15:58:27 andyross: http://code.google.com/android/RELEASENOTES.html Dec 06 15:58:43 IIRC, I built a copy of the android release and just used adb to install Settings.apk in the emulator. Dec 06 15:58:55 "The Settings and Email applications are now included in the SDK and available in the emulator." Dec 06 15:59:03 hmm. question. if "android market is an open service" then why is it only on usa tmob phones? :( Dec 06 15:59:09 shouldn't the apk be installable by anyone? Dec 06 15:59:25 jbq: so then how could i get a look at the code for rc29? Dec 06 15:59:34 the apk installer dont work for me Dec 06 15:59:44 hey guys: is there someone that has tested the android kernel by sean mcneil for the freerunner? Dec 06 15:59:58 pfft: the source code for individual releases of individual devices isn't necessarily available. Dec 06 16:00:08 "# We regret to inform developers that SDK 1.0_r2 does not support MFM, RLL, or Winchester hard disk drives." Dec 06 16:00:13 pfft: the bad news is, its apache licensed. so there is nothing that says they should give you source to what you are running. Dec 06 16:00:31 pfft: the android-1.0 tag in git is as close as you'll get. Dec 06 16:00:46 The good news is, Google gives you the source to most of it anyway. :) Dec 06 16:01:00 Hey ahaberlach Dec 06 16:01:15 jbq: and the android-1.0 tag cooresponds to which rc number? Dec 06 16:01:36 pfft: it is sorta what went out with the g1 Dec 06 16:01:46 pfft: it doesn't correspond to a specific RC, but it's close to 28 if I remember correctly. Dec 06 16:01:49 it is not an rc. there is NO SOURE FOR EACH RC. Dec 06 16:01:50 Bah. Someone needs to fix the disk drive joke. "Winchester" just refers to an air-floating head over a rotating platter. Unless the SDK works only on SSD drives, that is. Dec 06 16:01:50 Disconnect: which was rc number what? Dec 06 16:02:10 pfft: keep asking until you get the answer you like. seriously, that actually works. Dec 06 16:02:15 on your parents at least Dec 06 16:03:18 jbq: cool! android-1.0 tag is close to rc28 ... cool finally a semi sane answer Dec 06 16:03:19 pfft: the RCs of releases for individual devices typically live in private "deployment" branches maintained by or for the individual phone manufacturers. Dec 06 16:03:41 jbq: thanks for the great info Dec 06 16:03:44 np Dec 06 16:03:56 jbq: are there any web pages that explain all this in more detail? Dec 06 16:04:18 So the upshot is that there seem to have been no changes to the tools? If adb/aapt/dx/apkbuilder haven't changed, I don't think I need to grab it yet. Dec 06 16:05:02 pfft: not quite at this point. the process as it has existed so far does quite match the process as we'd like it to be in the future, so if we documented what we've done it'd have very limited value, and if we documented the way we want to work it wouldn't match the current reality. Dec 06 16:05:33 jbq: thanks for splaining Dec 06 16:05:34 pfft: I expect that on a 6-month timeframe theory and reality will match much better, and that there'll be more documentation about that. Dec 06 16:07:48 jbq: why is there such a disdain of delineating a rough equivalence between svn tags, and rc numbers? especially if some of them are pretty obvious ... like the one you mentioned? Dec 06 16:07:55 ah crap forgot to choosecombo Dec 06 16:08:53 pfft: there's no exact match. Dec 06 16:09:41 pfft: at a certain point in development, individual deployment branches don't use the exact source code as the platform (because at some point you start to really cherry-pick individual bugfixes for each precise device). Dec 06 16:10:00 jbq: i bet someone has been doing rough matches ... i.e. when they see some new code coming in after a repo sync ... they "know" that was for rc30, for e.g. Dec 06 16:10:34 jbq: i see Dec 06 16:10:36 RC30 fixed a bug in code that AFAIK isn't in git. Dec 06 16:10:39 like I said, the process has been imprecise, and what you're seeing in git doesn't match closely enough to be able to compare individual RCs. Dec 06 16:10:55 andyross: actually, that was pushed to git yesterday. Dec 06 16:11:09 andyross: what code is not in git? do you know? Dec 06 16:11:16 andyross: http://android.git.kernel.org/?p=platform/external/webkit.git;a=commit;h=db0ff3b0d66227d6946f8a613ebc3d160bea88c8 Dec 06 16:11:30 holy crap jbq, you're a machine Dec 06 16:11:53 SanMehat: lol Dec 06 16:12:01 I was talking about the init stuff -- the root hole that triggered RC30. I took a quick peek and couldn't find it in the source tree, and just assumed it was G1-specific. Dec 06 16:12:15 andyross: actually, it was all in git. Dec 06 16:12:23 Heh, never mind then. :) Dec 06 16:12:57 wait, uh... where was it? Dec 06 16:12:59 jbq: it looks like almost everything is in git Dec 06 16:13:16 jbq: i can find code for almost everything there ... Dec 06 16:13:46 jbq: everything from the dev drivers all the way up to the dialing apps Dec 06 16:14:06 pfft: yes, like I said, pretty close. The Android platform contains a lot of stuff. Dec 06 16:14:17 (those 22 million lines better do *something*) Dec 06 16:14:33 Everything meaningful is in git. Some hardware code is not (there are libraries to do all the interaction with the DSPs or GPU, maybe a few other proprietary bits). Dec 06 16:14:34 jbq: is there stuff that is not in git? if so, how much stuff, and what is the function of that stuff? Dec 06 16:14:45 jbq: he he Dec 06 16:14:53 pfft: opensourcing something this large is _hard_ Dec 06 16:15:02 obra: agreed Dec 06 16:15:24 pfft: a trivial example of something not in git: the gmail client. Dec 06 16:15:31 Hey anyone got a git cheatsheet? (bgupta is used to svn and hg) Dec 06 16:15:37 pfft: the entire platform is in there. device-specific bits may or may not be (some are, some aren't). None of the google apps are in there. Dec 06 16:15:53 obra: what? what are you talking about? Dec 06 16:15:56 bgupta: have a look at the intro to repo and git on source.android.com Dec 06 16:16:02 k thanks Dec 06 16:16:04 obra: that was the first thing i blogged about Dec 06 16:16:28 pfft: hm? url? Dec 06 16:16:49 jbq: Oh i see ... Dec 06 16:17:04 bgupta: http://letmegooglethatforyou.com/?q=git+tutorial Dec 06 16:17:11 obra: oh wait ... the AndroidMail client is not the gmail client? Dec 06 16:17:24 pfft: no. gmail and email are different in this case. Dec 06 16:17:35 obra: how obvious Dec 06 16:17:40 :) Dec 06 16:17:43 obra: jk Dec 06 16:17:56 obra: what's the difference? Dec 06 16:18:12 Yup. Email is open-source, Gmail isn't. It'd be nice to have a plugin architecture so that they could live under the same UI (possibly with other protocols) like IM does. Dec 06 16:18:22 obra: are you talking about the HUGE gmail client that compiles to run on everything from the black berry to any other j2me device? Dec 06 16:18:33 jbq: that'd certainly be interesting. Dec 06 16:18:50 * obra is looking forward to later this weekend when we get to spend some time unforking more of K-9 Dec 06 16:18:53 pfft: different clients. i'd love for that one to be useful on android, it lets you manage multiple accounts :) Dec 06 16:19:00 andyross: the root exploit: http://android.git.kernel.org/?p=platform/system/core.git;a=blob;f=rootdir/init.rc;h=23daa0b009479f8e564edf86b259ff322fe5a870;hb=HEAD#l159 Dec 06 16:19:12 (well, the hole) Dec 06 16:19:19 jbq is a much better bot than infobot :) Dec 06 16:19:33 Ah, indeed. I swear I grepped through system. But it's right there in my tree. Dec 06 16:19:44 Disconnect: neither have IMAP idle do they? Dec 06 16:19:48 (Undoing the giant naming switch from com.android.email to com.fsck.k9) Dec 06 16:20:02 pfft: there's a batch floating around which starts to add IDLE support for Email.apk Dec 06 16:20:15 andyross: This is what I was looking for: http://source.android.com/download/using-repo Dec 06 16:20:24 pfft: jasta has been hacking on IDLE, AIUI Dec 06 16:20:25 pfft: two forks of email right now - one purely for idle, one for "everything else" (k-9) Dec 06 16:20:41 Disconnect: I see Dec 06 16:20:48 obra: cool thanks Dec 06 16:20:51 Disconnect: is there a URL for the IDLE support fork? Dec 06 16:21:14 yes but i don't have it off the top of my head :) ask infobot or jbq Dec 06 16:21:20 * obra is trying to get himself out of the forked email client business ;) Dec 06 16:21:22 the code base for the gmail client must be pretty big, just for itself Dec 06 16:21:33 infobot: idle? Dec 06 16:21:34 Idle is a doodie head Dec 06 16:21:54 I try to not keep track of projects outside of the main Android tree. Dec 06 16:22:11 sane. Dec 06 16:23:08 If there were a way to build a custom version of Email.apk and install it locally, I'd never have forked K-9 off. I'm hoping that a reasonable solution to that issue comes along Dec 06 16:23:13 jbq: do you think the gmail team did the AndroidMail client? Dec 06 16:23:43 AndroidMail? Dec 06 16:23:44 wife is calling ... gotta go ... grrr Dec 06 16:23:58 ah, wives... ;-) Dec 06 16:24:17 jbq: mydroid/packages/apps/Email Dec 06 16:24:44 pfft: that was done by a different team (at the time), though now Gmail and Email are maintained by different people in the same team. Dec 06 16:24:53 jbq: thanks Dec 06 16:25:27 jbq: so they go rid of the contractors that did Email? Dec 06 16:25:35 jbq: he he Dec 06 16:25:50 jbq: they prob just move on to other projects Dec 06 16:25:54 romainguy_: i think it was you i was tlaking to about alternative partitioning.. i just had a thought that allows replacing system apps -and- falling back to factory: overlay mounts. Dec 06 16:25:55 pfft: it's so complex that I couldn't accurately describe it. Dec 06 16:26:09 jbq: thanks for trying :-) Dec 06 16:30:00 * mikey| wanders why all the vars in the android src start with 'm' Dec 06 16:30:19 member Dec 06 16:30:51 i see Dec 06 16:34:05 mikey|: http://source.android.com/submit-patches/code-style-guide Dec 06 16:36:54 btw for kernel module builders, I posted a quick howto: http://www.gotontheinter.net/node/4 (requires root of course) Dec 06 16:37:15 nice Dec 06 16:37:27 doh. stupid drupal didn't publish it. fixed :) Dec 06 16:38:17 * tech9iner supposes there is still no succinct how-to or applications or ?? way to fully backup all g1 data perchance? Dec 06 16:38:45 tech9iner: get root. install busybox. cd /data. busybox tar cvzf /sdcard/backup.tgz . Dec 06 16:39:00 Disconnect; stupid drupal ? lol.. not a fan? Dec 06 16:39:10 Disconnect; mk.. fair enough mate.. Dec 06 16:39:21 Disconnect; rooting rc30 available yet? Dec 06 16:39:25 succinct and how-to, but not an application :) Dec 06 16:39:42 indeed & truly succinct AND appreciated Disconnect ;]] Dec 06 16:39:50 Is there any documentation available for the A.D.D. 1? Also, does anyone know when they are shipping? Dec 06 16:40:15 * tech9iner saves tech9iner: get root. install busybox. cd /data. busybox tar cvzf /sdcard/backup.tgz . for later ;]] Dec 06 16:40:36 there is an app that saves contacts and some other stuff but there is not (and can never be) a general "back up all app data and prefs" app. (platform could add a "give me data to be backed up" and/or "here is data from a restore" call to apps, but with the current disaster of a security policy it will never exist without application support) Dec 06 16:41:03 rather, a general tool will never exist that can work without the application participating Dec 06 16:41:16 secuity | disasterous ? hmmm.. Dec 06 16:41:59 google's never quite been way out ahead of security in general though aye?.. least not on their free offerings ie gmail Dec 06 16:42:12 tech9iner: they reinvented the wheel a LOT. (selinux, only without selinux. with selinux even the root hole wouldn't have mattered) Dec 06 16:42:21 lol Dec 06 16:42:34 answers that question then disc lol Dec 06 16:42:56 * Disconnect seriously (and all snarkiness aside) thinks this security policy was invented by a developer on a napkin and carried through by force of personality rather than technical merit. Dec 06 16:43:23 but neat stuff coming: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e2yWDvcWu6I Dec 06 16:43:25 what security policy? Dec 06 16:43:30 android security policy. Dec 06 16:43:52 what the uid/gid thing? Dec 06 16:43:53 http://code.google.com/android/devel/security.html Dec 06 16:43:55 yah Dec 06 16:43:59 whats wrong with it? Dec 06 16:44:02 Disconnect; my fleet services clients dont typically have state secrets involved so ive never sweated security more than end user abilities support anyway.. right up until i win contracts to repair Air Force One fleet.. not too worried hehe Dec 06 16:44:29 you know... forget i asked.. Dec 06 16:44:33 SanMehat: ..everything? :) do you really want to go down the list (and how - from the "users expect X but it can't be done" perspective or from the "here is where it is weak" perspective?) Dec 06 16:44:38 Disconnect: Is that video showing a Sharp Zaurus running android? Dec 06 16:44:44 Disconnect: not really Dec 06 16:44:44 Disconnect; lmao.. jolly good 'non snarky' line hehe Dec 06 16:44:45 yes. 2 bonuses in there. Dec 06 16:46:16 SanMehat: overall the biggest weakness in android right now is the insistence on reinventing the wheel for no valid reason. (the biggest ones are toolkit instead of busybox, uid/gid instead of selinux, bionic instead of uclibc) Dec 06 16:46:43 if you say so Dec 06 16:47:19 how long will it take you to write a dhcpd for PAN? cuz i can add one to busybox in about 12 seconds. (and its already tested upstream) Dec 06 16:47:35 whats the uclibc license? Dec 06 16:47:48 lgpl i believe. checking. Dec 06 16:47:59 it would need to be BSD or one of those. Dec 06 16:47:59 Yes it is lgpl... Dec 06 16:48:19 plus i thought bionic was a lot smaller. Dec 06 16:48:23 http://cvs.sourceforge.jp/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/uclinux-h8/uClibc/docs/uclibc.org/FAQ.html?rev=1.1.1.2 " If I use uClibc, do I have to release all my source code to the world for free? I want to create a closed source commercial application and I want to protect my intellectual property. ""No"etc Dec 06 16:48:42 as for uid/gid vs selinux. That decision predates me, but i'm fine with whats in place now. Dec 06 16:49:09 note that you can even static-link, if you offer (eg platform-sdk) bins that can be relinked to newer uclibc (no need to offer source, readble or otherwise, to your app. just relinking capability) Dec 06 16:49:29 Disconnect: you'd need to talk with one of the bionic guys to get some perspective on why we went that route. Dec 06 16:49:57 if i remember next week i'll ask someone Dec 06 16:51:01 i would suggest getting the entire story before dismissing components as existing 'for no good reason' Dec 06 16:51:05 but hey its the internets! Dec 06 16:51:18 bbl Dec 06 16:51:27 SanMehat: the platform is covered in NotInventedHere.. Dec 06 16:51:43 but i'd love to hear about toolkit vs busybox. Dec 06 16:52:16 bleh Dec 06 16:52:17 whatever Dec 06 16:52:17 :) Dec 06 16:53:32 its your right to think its nih :) Dec 06 16:54:10 but i haven't seen any re-inventing of the wheel 'just because' in any areas that i've worked with Dec 06 16:54:14 *shrug* Dec 06 16:54:20 taking dog to vet.. have a nice day :) Dec 06 16:54:25 so far nobody has come up with any answers other than "you weren't here" .. its a valid technical question. Dec 06 16:55:51 looking (on the device) most of /system/bin (1.8M) could be replaced with busybox - a static-uclibc build with everything is 1.7 megs. (relatively huge, but again, that includes a libc and -everything-. stripped down bionic version would certainly save space -and- give nice upstream dev and testing) Dec 06 17:05:33 hmmm.. very interesting.. mate here offered up http://bicellphone.com/phone/gphone/t-zones-hack-for-g1-android-forums-g-phone-forums when i was inquiring about best website to monitor for root exploit for my g1's rc30 .. and avast detected a trojan attempt upon loading site 1st time.. hmmmmmm.. Dec 06 17:06:05 * tech9iner checks logs for wtf mate provided said site.. Dec 06 17:06:21 Anyone else see that article on Digg / Forbes today that mentioned how Android was ported to a garage door opener? Dec 06 17:06:31 that guy OBVIOUSLY knows his ass from a hole in the ground Dec 06 17:06:44 today? that was news ages ago Dec 06 17:06:55 the one were he drives his bike up to his house? Dec 06 17:07:00 where * Dec 06 17:07:08 RyeBrye: brad? it's Dec 06 17:07:23 well... the having an android phone send an HTTP request to a webserver that triggers a relay to OPEN a garage door opener is a LOT different from "porting android" to a garage door opener Dec 06 17:07:31 RyeBrye: brad? it's basically the same hack he had on previous phones Dec 06 17:07:49 Just with a cleverer proximity sensor Dec 06 17:07:51 link to article forbes please? Dec 06 17:07:55 article * Dec 06 17:07:58 >.< Dec 06 17:08:01 http://www.forbes.com/2008/12/05/google-operating-system-tech-enter-cx_ew_1205google.html?feed=rss_news Dec 06 17:08:02 * mikey| is tired Dec 06 17:08:57 It's about how they think Google is preparing a secret OS because they strip OS info from some traffic. Then again, this guy doesn't really know what an OS is because he mentions X11 as being an OS, and later he talks about an OS running on a push-button device (android on the garage door opener) Dec 06 17:09:31 "Android has officially debuted on just one product, the T-Mobile G1 cellphone. But fans and tinkerers have already ported it to devices ranging from Nokia's (nyse: NOK - news - people ) Internet tablet to a garage door opener." Dec 06 17:09:36 "Mainstream Journalist Gets Facts Wrong About Technology! Film at 11" Dec 06 17:14:15 "P2P consultation - FOI (Freedom of information Act) request" Dec 06 17:14:16 hmm Dec 06 17:14:44 some journalist wants all the responses Dec 06 17:17:56 haha, someone has Android running on a garage door opener? well done, uber-hacker Dec 06 17:18:29 hi! i have one problem while providing the android-sdk path in eclipse as given here http://pastie.org/332699 Dec 06 17:18:59 can anybody help about whats' going wrong? Dec 06 17:20:27 have you upgraded adt via the eclipse interface makghosh ? Dec 06 17:20:43 mikey|: yup! Dec 06 17:20:55 hmm..not sure then Dec 06 17:21:21 wait, are you using sdk r1? r2 is out Dec 06 17:21:57 the path /opt/android-sdk-linux_x86-1.0_r1/tools/lib/res//default/values/attrs.xml is kinda wierd actually...it can never parse anything that way Dec 06 17:23:05 is it intentional that you have two slashes? It shouldn't matter, but you never know Dec 06 17:24:41 mikey|: i think you're right, because http://code.google.com/android/adt_download.html says 0.8.0 still works on r1 but eclipse updates is giving the latest build as i see Dec 06 17:25:38 KNY: nopes '//' was there in the parse error message, which appeared wier, i think r2 will do the job Dec 06 17:25:53 s/weird Dec 06 17:26:11 thanks :) Dec 06 17:56:21 is this old news? http://gizmodo.com/5103402/sim+-and-hardware+unlocked-g1-available-to-developers-or-you-for-400 Dec 06 17:56:35 About 12 hours old... Dec 06 17:58:38 we'd put it in the topic but.. meh Dec 06 17:59:10 lol its not even on source.android.com Dec 06 17:59:16 1 news item "look there is source" Dec 06 17:59:38 Ordered my dev phone. Dec 06 17:59:56 Wife wanted a G1 but her contract wasn't up for a new device till March, so she gets mine. Dec 06 18:01:04 /topic Open Source Release: http://source.android.com/ | Platform-Dev Phone: http://code.google.com/android/dev-devices.html | Android Market is now open for new applications: http://market.android.com/publish | SDK 1.0_r2 is now available: http://tinyurl.com/684d9f Dec 06 18:08:55 hi all Dec 06 18:18:39 is there any way to intercept key presses when menu + combination is pressed? like menu + 1 = jump to window one, etc Dec 06 18:19:09 /win/win 9 Dec 06 18:19:21 /lose/lose 8 Dec 06 18:20:03 i did a bad job Dec 06 18:22:20 those development phones have a zune-ish design on the back Dec 06 18:22:23 looks pretty cool though Dec 06 18:23:46 hi Dec 06 18:24:34 zhobbs: yeah, the dev phones look cool Dec 06 18:24:52 if only i can ship them to india for cheap! Dec 06 18:25:04 muthu_: how much they want for shipping? Dec 06 18:25:12 225$ to india Dec 06 18:25:44 ouch, that's crazy Dec 06 18:26:06 who do the americans get everything for free? ^-^ Dec 06 18:26:49 canada, seems to be the high shipping cost Dec 06 18:26:54 japan is the lowest Dec 06 18:27:48 wtf Dec 06 18:27:50 225 to india? Dec 06 18:28:20 yep, 280 for canada Dec 06 18:28:27 ... Dec 06 18:28:31 * d0netsFN pinches himself Dec 06 18:28:38 yes ... the shipping prices are insane. Dec 06 18:28:51 why more to canada than india Dec 06 18:29:16 yeah, that's crazy...free to US and $280 to Canada Dec 06 18:40:17 the shipping prices include local taxes and import duties i believe Dec 06 18:40:36 i think they're going to update the store to be clearer about that this weekend Dec 06 18:40:58 actually i *know* the shipping prices include the import duties and local taxes for the receiving country Dec 06 18:41:04 sanmehat it better include more than that Dec 06 18:41:27 d0netsFN: ? Dec 06 18:41:37 for 280 to ship from us to canada? Dec 06 18:41:48 what are the quantities shipped? Dec 06 18:41:49 hm would this thing work on any 3g network? Dec 06 18:41:49 you ever tried to import a carton of smokes to canada? Dec 06 18:41:53 i ship stuff all the time to canada and its hardly more than shipping inside the US Dec 06 18:42:04 sanmehat i go to whistler every year Dec 06 18:42:08 and we take a carton in our suitcase Dec 06 18:42:22 d0netsFN: yeah but have you ever had to *pay* the duty on it? Dec 06 18:42:23 i once did Dec 06 18:42:32 i brought 2 cartons.. and had to declare 1 Dec 06 18:42:32 i dont think so Dec 06 18:42:37 CA-US is a special case. Dec 06 18:43:11 in any event, my understanding is they're going to update the site to be clearer on the shipping costs Dec 06 18:43:57 if they want to be totally clear they should say "we are raping you on shipping cost" Dec 06 18:44:02 i'm not aware of each countries import duties Dec 06 18:44:15 well if anyone wants one Dec 06 18:44:24 mm that phone is 580 usd for me :( Dec 06 18:44:27 pm me and i will order it and charge 20$ over actual cost to ship it Dec 06 18:44:38 d0netsFN: sure Dec 06 18:44:40 but Dec 06 18:44:45 if the customs inspect the package Dec 06 18:44:47 then customs will intercept it Dec 06 18:44:50 you'll have to pay for the taxes Dec 06 18:44:55 you could almost have a good business plan buying them in the US and then reselling to other countries Dec 06 18:44:57 well not you but the recipient Dec 06 18:45:08 zhobbs: and you still need to pay for import duties Dec 06 18:45:27 romainguy_: not $280 to canada Dec 06 18:45:32 FYI: electronic device import duties to canada from the US which are not covered under NAFTA get raped Dec 06 18:45:57 anyways, i'm not a sales droid Dec 06 18:45:59 i'm an eng droid Dec 06 18:46:10 yea 280 to canada is reduculous Dec 06 18:46:14 someone give me a canadian zipcode Dec 06 18:46:21 V3S 4N7 Dec 06 18:46:22 * d0netsFN joins #canada Dec 06 18:46:25 I've shipped a $2,000 electronic device, legally, to canada for $60 Dec 06 18:46:37 was it covered under NAFTA? Dec 06 18:46:46 i dont know if mobile devices are. Dec 06 18:46:48 not sure Dec 06 18:47:03 i shipped an mr2 (a car) to canada for like 700 Dec 06 18:47:05 anyways, go talk to one of those import duties Dec 06 18:47:10 d0netsFN: that doesn't mean shit. Dec 06 18:47:15 Too bad there is that 1 phone / dev account limit Dec 06 18:47:17 when i imported my US car to canada i paid 400 Dec 06 18:47:29 RyeBrye: well 1 dev, 1 phone :) Dec 06 18:47:35 exactly, not why the hell is a 400$ phone almost that much Dec 06 18:47:44 because cars are not phones Dec 06 18:47:50 and the car was over 3 years old Dec 06 18:47:50 romainguy_: I have 2 hands though! ;) Dec 06 18:48:12 don't blame me if import duties are retarded Dec 06 18:48:13 romainguy_: what if I have multiple personality disorder? 5 devs, 1 person, 1 phone? We're going to be constantly fighting over it Dec 06 18:48:14 no we wont Dec 06 18:48:14 i dont make the rules Dec 06 18:48:24 SanMehat: I wonder how it works to sell those in other countries; the radio is approved by the FCC here so... Dec 06 18:48:31 go write to Canadian Customs Dec 06 18:48:52 and $399 for a phone with that hardware and completely unlocked is a really sweet deal :)) Dec 06 18:48:56 ups world wide saver for 80 bucks Dec 06 18:48:57 on ups.com Dec 06 18:49:10 that's shipping Dec 06 18:49:13 not import duties Dec 06 18:49:13 thats shipping Dec 06 18:49:16 not import duties Dec 06 18:49:20 you ship it for $80 Dec 06 18:49:22 the customs intercept it Dec 06 18:49:28 and you get a nice bill in your mailbox Dec 06 18:49:29 then you get a call from a customs broker Dec 06 18:49:35 * romainguy_ knows from experience :)) Dec 06 18:49:39 they call you and say 'if you want t his to go through you gotta pay another $200' Dec 06 18:49:44 oh and when customs intercept it, they keep it for a while :)) Dec 06 18:49:58 yeah Dec 06 18:50:00 a long while Dec 06 18:50:13 I paid about 90 euros on my 200 euros PSP when I imported from Japan to France for instance Dec 06 18:50:16 d0netsFN: contact a customs broker. They can explain this to you. Dec 06 18:51:00 ok Dec 06 18:51:02 someone buy 10 Dec 06 18:51:07 drive to canadia Dec 06 18:51:12 and ship them from there Dec 06 18:51:17 can only buy 1 though Dec 06 18:51:30 per person Dec 06 18:51:50 go buy 10 different visa gift cards Dec 06 18:51:56 and use different names for each order Dec 06 18:52:33 sounds like a lot of work Dec 06 18:52:37 Google knows who you are. They will hunt you down with their cloaked useragents and beat you into submission Dec 06 18:55:15 d0netsFN: http://www.thefinalcost.com/shipments/calculate/ Dec 06 18:55:35 put in 399 and 80 for shipping and see what goes into it Dec 06 18:56:39 via UPS: shipping ($103) + Duty ($31) + GST ($39) + Brokerage ($56) + Disbursment ($6) Dec 06 18:56:43 yeah, $200 total cost Dec 06 18:56:53 wtf Dec 06 18:57:01 * d0netsFN throws his chair Dec 06 18:57:03 this is robbery Dec 06 18:57:14 yeah.. but not by us :| Dec 06 18:57:30 you can click on each ? and they'll explain what the costs are Dec 06 18:58:00 I'm sure the robbery is not googles fault Dec 06 18:58:10 google should do everyone a favor and ship it to their offices and then send it out using a local delivery service Dec 06 18:58:11 greedy governments Dec 06 18:58:18 at least the device ships to 18 countries Dec 06 18:58:22 offices in places where orders have come from Dec 06 18:58:27 try to buy electronics from Amazon and ship it to Europe... Dec 06 18:58:27 mikey|: thats illegal, and i believe would count as smuggling Dec 06 18:58:34 lol, really? Dec 06 18:58:35 would still have to go through customs i'm sure Dec 06 18:58:37 yup Dec 06 18:58:40 haha Dec 06 18:58:41 at least in canada it would be for sure Dec 06 18:58:48 * mikey| adds that to his do not try list Dec 06 18:58:56 mikey|: there are also laws on how many devices with radios you can import in the US without being in trouble Dec 06 18:59:13 the whole point is protectionism so that canadian companies can make their own g1..haha Dec 06 18:59:13 (that caused delays to get the Android's team devices in :) Dec 06 18:59:19 I would think a lot of companies have distribution centers in other countries, they don't pay $200 in taxes to bring a US product into their distribution center Dec 06 18:59:32 (a $400 product) Dec 06 18:59:50 i'm not into imports / exports Dec 06 18:59:51 zhobbs: they'd probably have to manufacture it there Dec 06 18:59:56 i dunno Dec 06 19:00:00 i only know what i know from having had to ship crap back and forth and paid through the nose for it Dec 06 19:00:05 zhobbs: remember this is a device for developers Dec 06 19:00:07 small batches Dec 06 19:00:12 not widespread distributions Dec 06 19:00:21 it's not the same as channeling through T-Mobile Dec 06 19:00:21 * RyeBrye is glad that we have found something else to bitch about - bitching about root / locked-down phones was getting old :) Dec 06 19:00:22 romainguy_: yeah, I understand it's not worth google's effort for this product... Dec 06 19:00:35 and Google does not sell phones :) Dec 06 19:00:42 just saying that for the G1 for example, they aren't paying that much in import taxes Dec 06 19:01:02 zhobbs: you don't really know what T-mobile is paying for the phones Dec 06 19:01:26 anyways.. back to coding Dec 06 19:01:27 peas. Dec 06 19:01:49 zhobbs: just because the customer doesn't see the cost enumerated doesn't mean that T-mobile isn't paying for it Dec 06 19:02:47 zhobbs: also, since they pretty much do this for a living, they've probably figured out ways to keep those costs down as much as possible Dec 06 19:02:53 ok so if you ship like 100 of them Dec 06 19:02:57 you still pay the same amount or twat Dec 06 19:05:59 hehe it is reduced by whatever the income taxes would be on the profits i bet Dec 06 19:08:09 I want to see people working on proper multitouch support on these Dev devices - even if they don't "officially" have such hardware :P Dec 06 19:11:32 does android support all my hardware cellphone capability? Dec 06 19:11:46 like my cellphone camera? Dec 06 19:12:21 hey, I heard international shipment of the dev phone is very expensive, can someone specify that? Dec 06 19:13:47 ask DHL Dec 06 19:14:52 jaypur: if you have a t-mobile g1 then yes Dec 06 19:15:42 jaypur: otherwise simply port linux to your phone and write device drivers for all the hardware and then port the android platform to your phone Dec 06 19:16:38 hmm Dec 06 19:16:39 got it Dec 06 19:16:50 and how do i duall boot android and other system??? Dec 06 19:17:55 yeah, can anyone reveal the internatinal shipment prices that are listed for germany, france, netherlands,...? Dec 06 19:18:53 sure Dec 06 19:19:09 for the android phone i assume? Dec 06 19:19:19 the dev phone 1 yes Dec 06 19:20:06 around 180 euro Dec 06 19:20:51 thanks, thats for Western-Europe? Dec 06 19:21:07 yes, .nl, .de, .fr Dec 06 19:21:21 i mean 180 usd Dec 06 19:21:23 not euro Dec 06 19:21:34 ok thats a bit better :-) Dec 06 19:21:36 how are all these huge companies reacting to the G1/Android? you cant introduce something "open source" to a regular user and not have them freak out Dec 06 19:23:52 tomh: thanks for the numbers :) Dec 06 19:24:21 np Dec 06 19:24:37 tomh: that's just shipping though, right? so the german customs will charge another 80 euros or so salestax Dec 06 19:24:46 all inclusive Dec 06 19:25:01 wow, that's good news. Dec 06 19:25:36 "For Orders shipping outside the US, shipping pricing includes cost of shipping service and the applicable customs, duties, import and country specific other fees." Dec 06 19:25:44 http://www.evilmilk.com/pictures/Iphone_And_Stone.jpg Dec 06 19:25:47 i lold Dec 06 19:26:09 heh Dec 06 19:26:56 d0netsFN: the stone also has multi-touch Dec 06 19:28:25 stone is also rock solid Dec 06 19:28:28 iphone not ;p Dec 06 19:28:50 tomh: So now I'm only wondering if the dev phone shipment might get cheaper once the g1 is released in germany Dec 06 19:28:53 heh i like the one with the macbook air and c64 better Dec 06 19:28:59 lol tomh Dec 06 19:29:14 kirberich: don't bet on it though Dec 06 19:29:25 kirberich: I couldn't see why. The dev phone is not related to the G1 other than being the same hardware Dec 06 19:29:31 true Dec 06 19:29:49 I guess I'll just have to cough up the 580 bucks then ;) Dec 06 19:29:56 tomh: you ordered a dev phone? Dec 06 19:29:57 580?! Dec 06 19:30:01 no Dec 06 19:30:02 400 + 180 Dec 06 19:30:03 jeez, that's absurd. Dec 06 19:30:11 580 usd Dec 06 19:30:14 thats like 450 euro Dec 06 19:30:17 yeah Dec 06 19:30:19 iphone costs 525 Dec 06 19:30:25 ttuttle: import taxes on electronics can be very hefty in many parts of the world. Dec 06 19:30:30 why doeesn't google ship a few to each office abroad and then sghip them from there. Dec 06 19:30:35 jbq: ah. why? Dec 06 19:30:40 jbq: they are 20 percent in this case Dec 06 19:30:57 ttuttle: because those countries have high taxes! Dec 06 19:30:59 there's no import tax on cell phones, but you have to pay salex tax Dec 06 19:31:03 i think you can get some import duties back if you are a company in the EU Dec 06 19:31:13 tomh: to quote san from earlier Dec 06 19:31:14 13:58:27 <@SanMehat> mikey|: thats illegal, and i believe would count as smuggling Dec 06 19:31:16 tomh: you may have a point there Dec 06 19:31:27 err... ttuttle: ^^^ Dec 06 19:31:38 xsdg: yeah I know. Dec 06 19:31:46 oh, and it's 605 of course. Dec 06 19:31:46 hardcore, smugglin phones Dec 06 19:31:48 at least the VAT is something we can ask back Dec 06 19:31:53 still have to register for the market Dec 06 19:31:55 which is 20% Dec 06 19:32:13 so thats 450 euro - 90 Dec 06 19:32:17 360 euro Dec 06 19:32:20 ttuttle: you can't expect the money to pay for what those countries offer to their residents to come out of thin air. Dec 06 19:32:20 not bad? Dec 06 19:32:52 tomh: seems almost reasonable ;) Dec 06 19:33:04 ye Dec 06 19:33:15 for an unlocked phone pretty good Dec 06 19:33:18 too bad no gps right Dec 06 19:33:23 hu? Dec 06 19:33:41 why no gps? Dec 06 19:33:47 I'm pretty sure it has GPS Dec 06 19:34:23 isnt listed in the features.. Dec 06 19:34:31 It would probably cost them more to remove it and set up a new production run than it would to just leave it in Dec 06 19:34:39 well it's identical to the g1 I thought? Dec 06 19:34:48 Why would they remove it? Dec 06 19:34:49 Might have been forgotten on the lis. I'll relay the information "inside" to confirm it. Dec 06 19:34:55 s/lis/list/ Dec 06 19:34:55 jbq meant: Might have been forgotten on the list. I'll relay the information "inside" to confirm it. Dec 06 19:35:27 new sdk! Dec 06 19:35:32 but I guess that's in the topic :) Dec 06 19:35:44 jbq: you heard from inside sources it has gps? Dec 06 19:36:00 while you are at it - some other hardware features that aren't being used include: pedometer and a thermometer (also on that accelerometer / compass chip) - since these are "dev phones" maybe "devs" might be interested in these features they could somehow get working :) Dec 06 19:36:04 tomh: no, but I'm passing the question to the people who'd know. Dec 06 19:36:13 ok Dec 06 19:36:19 let me know :) Dec 06 19:36:20 I'd be very surprised and disappointed if it wasn't there. Dec 06 19:36:24 Ooh, a thermometer? That'd be cool. Dec 06 19:36:24 I would be seriously confused if the dev phone didn't have gps Dec 06 19:36:35 that just wouldn't make _any_ sense at all Dec 06 19:36:42 RyeBrye: What makes the pedometer different from the accelerometer. Dec 06 19:37:14 s/./?/ Dec 06 19:37:15 ttuttle meant: RyeBrye: What makes the pedometer different from the accelerometer? Dec 06 19:37:17 ttuttle: I have no clue - except that it has easy methods to get number of steps and reset number of steps? probably uses less energy to rely on it to track that crap itself than for you to poll the sensor and figure out when steps are taken in software Dec 06 19:37:18 * offby1 wants a baconometer Dec 06 19:37:19 isn't a pedometer something you can make out of an accelerometer? Dec 06 19:37:24 Yeah, it is Dec 06 19:37:26 RyeBrye: ah Dec 06 19:37:28 offby1: mmmmm Dec 06 19:37:29 o Dec 06 19:37:29 Which is proabbly why it's not been used :) Dec 06 19:37:31 er Dec 06 19:37:42 * ttuttle wants an awesomeometer. Dec 06 19:37:52 ttuttle: pedometer can be done with a lot less precision (and therefore a lot less power) than an accelerometer. Dec 06 19:37:58 jbq: ah Dec 06 19:38:05 wait there's a thermometer? Dec 06 19:38:26 luok: apparently Dec 06 19:38:58 no api tho huh Dec 06 19:39:03 how do i install android in my phone???? Dec 06 19:39:19 I don't know!!!! Dec 06 19:39:49 how do you install android? Dec 06 19:39:53 yes Dec 06 19:39:54 doesnt it come with it? Dec 06 19:39:58 nope Dec 06 19:40:08 what phone? G1? Dec 06 19:40:18 its a n95 Dec 06 19:40:26 o Dec 06 19:40:29 jaypur: Um, that's not supported. Dec 06 19:40:33 idk, i dont even have a g1 Dec 06 19:40:38 jaypur: Perhaps Google for it? Dec 06 19:40:43 yeah im looking here, no one could install Dec 06 19:40:55 just some videos... but maybe it is fake Dec 06 19:40:58 jaypur: Then it's likely not possible yet. Dec 06 19:41:05 http://android.git.kernel.org/?p=kernel/msm.git;a=blob;f=drivers/i2c/chips/akm8976.c;h=8c03165bccfd7a9b4efa79648d21cb9750ed40a1;hb=aa5b407d67cd4b665955453388d2a02930ba1643#l372 see line#399 and line #413 Dec 06 19:41:11 (the thermometer and the "step count" stuff) Dec 06 19:41:22 what i can understand is, n95 has a lot of aplications, so why should i change for android??? Dec 06 19:41:41 jaypur: Nobody said you had to. Dec 06 19:41:49 ttuttle, i know... Dec 06 19:41:56 but i wanna know why should i? Dec 06 19:42:05 jaypur: "how do i install android in my phone????" then you say: "jaypur: what i can understand is, n95 has a lot of aplications, so why should i change for android???" Dec 06 19:42:10 i know it is open source, that is great, and in the future it will be greater Dec 06 19:42:16 How do I install mutant killer alien brain in my child?!? Dec 06 19:42:24 jaypur: http://android-freak.org/blog1.php/2008/08/31/nokia-n95-vs-htc-g1-dream-is-iit-time-to-2 Dec 06 19:42:25 Wait, why woudl I want to install mutant killer alien brain in my child?!? Dec 06 19:42:35 RyeBrye: First, find the JTAG interface... Dec 06 19:42:56 I might write a simple C program to see what that temp sensor reports Dec 06 19:43:29 RyeBrye: I'm curious if it's placed such that it reasonably measures ambient temperature. Dec 06 19:43:44 Also, doesn't the acceleromter just give X/Y/Z now? what's the 4th one on both the compass and the acceleromter - is that used? RUDDER and WHEEL ? Dec 06 19:44:20 RyeBrye: accelerometer gives rotation and translation in 3d = 6d total. Dec 06 19:44:28 Oh, cool Dec 06 19:44:58 RyeBrye: I suggest that you don't spend too much time on the current sensor code. The next code drop will have a lot of new code in that area. Dec 06 19:45:14 Actually, the accelerometer doesn't measure rotations, only translations. Dec 06 19:45:39 but there's also the 3d compass, which. Dec 06 19:45:54 the cheapest plan for the G1 is $54.98 monthly> Dec 06 19:45:55 ؟ Dec 06 19:46:00 jbq: That's cool. you mean the platform code or the kernel code? I'm looking at the stuff in the 2.6.27 branch which is going to be part of the next big code drop, I presume? Dec 06 19:46:20 RyeBrye: I'm talking about the platform code. Dec 06 19:46:55 jbq: ok, that makes sense. I'm mostly interested in seeing what is available at the sensor level in the hardware - I wont bother building up platform pieces that are already likely built Dec 06 19:47:07 luok, reading it.... Dec 06 19:47:22 RyeBrye: ok. I don't expect changes on the driver side. Dec 06 19:48:39 luok, nice text.... Dec 06 19:49:07 thank google Dec 06 19:49:18 http://techon.nikkeibp.co.jp/english/NEWS_EN/20081028/160267/?SS=imgview_e&FD=1012555049&ad_q It looks like the sensor is right next to the power button - and I doubt that placement will let it get good temp readings of ambient air if it is charging Dec 06 19:49:52 would be fun anyway Dec 06 19:49:55 http://techon.nikkeibp.co.jp/english/NEWS_EN/20081028/160267/?SS=imgview_e&FD=1010708007&ad_q shows the context of that one Dec 06 19:50:09 Yeah, but I bet it would be able to tell the difference between freezing and 90 degrees F Dec 06 19:50:15 * RyeBrye would hope at least Dec 06 19:50:39 i suspect charging or running would screw it up. the battery gets -warm- Dec 06 19:50:41 not while charging or doing something processor intensive.. Dec 06 19:50:50 nods Dec 06 19:51:00 i can tell you from using the phone the chin gets warm during either of those activities Dec 06 19:52:06 * SystemWizard puts his hat back over his eyes and nods back off Dec 06 19:52:32 * offby1 pours ashes in SystemWizard's mouth Dec 06 19:52:45 it was either that, or tip his chair all the way over Dec 06 19:52:50 *gag* *wheeze* Dec 06 19:52:57 he's got his boots on the coffee table again. I wish he'd not do that Dec 06 19:53:06 * SystemWizard slaps offby1 around with a large trout Dec 06 19:53:20 * offby1 fetches some drawn butter and fingerling potatoes Dec 06 19:54:16 any mexicans here? Dec 06 19:54:40 i want to know what cheese they use in the restaurants Dec 06 19:55:01 i googled but theres a list of 10 it could be Dec 06 19:55:02 cotija and oaxaca are popular Dec 06 19:55:04 but nobody knows for shure Dec 06 19:55:07 the crumbly kinds Dec 06 19:55:25 well this is a melty kind that they put in tacos and quesadillas Dec 06 19:56:09 i think i should just find a hispanic grocery store Dec 06 19:57:42 d0netsFN: are you looking for like, the queso melted cheese dip stuff? Dec 06 19:57:55 no Dec 06 19:57:58 well yes that too Dec 06 19:58:04 but the cheese they use in quesadillas Dec 06 19:59:24 in tex-mex restaurants they use a mix of cheddar and monterey jack Dec 06 19:59:27 http://www.xenite.org/white_cheese/queso-blanco-recipe.html is a great queso recipe, and quesadillas just have cheddar or monteray jack Dec 06 20:00:24 !google mexican quesadilla cheese Dec 06 20:00:37 oh i forget im not on efnet Dec 06 20:02:44 • Queso oaxaca: Also known as quesillo, this soft, mild cheese is perfect for quesadillas. It is similar in texture to string cheese, and should be pulled apart into thin strings before being put on the tortilla. Dec 06 20:02:47 i think it might be that one Dec 06 20:20:10 infobot: devphones Dec 06 20:20:11 [devphones] a phone with magical powers and will make all your wildest dreams come true. You can read about them here: http://code.google.com/android/dev-devices.html - in order to buy one, you have to pay a $25 to be in the "developer club" and then you can get into the back room where they keep them behind a curtain of lava. very expensive to ship outside the US, or sporting this: http://tinyurl.com/54sxg2 Dec 06 20:22:31 ttuttle: I no longer need access to your phone for anything :D Dec 06 20:23:00 RyeBrye: let him be "special" for a while longer, at least in his head. :) Dec 06 20:23:14 :/ Dec 06 20:23:16 :) Dec 06 20:25:28 hi guys Dec 06 20:25:44 anyone ever get some message syaing too many text messages were being sent? Dec 06 20:25:49 infobot - tell blau-MikeDG about devphones Dec 06 20:26:01 hmm... must not have parsed Dec 06 20:26:07 no - Dec 06 20:26:09 : instead Dec 06 20:26:13 blau-MikeDG: no Dec 06 20:26:18 infobot tell blau-MikeDG about devphones Dec 06 20:26:23 ...needs a : Dec 06 20:26:28 infobot: tell RyeBrye about help Dec 06 20:27:20 infobot help sexual_healing Dec 06 20:27:21 omg at devphones i think!!!! Dec 06 20:28:11 infobot: devphones Dec 06 20:28:12 methinks devphones is a phone with magical powers and will make all your wildest dreams come true. You can read about them here: http://code.google.com/android/dev-devices.html - in order to buy one, you have to pay a $25 to be in the "developer club" and then you can get into the back room where they keep them behind a curtain of lava. very expensive to ship outside the US, or sporting this: http://tinyurl.com/54sxg2 Dec 06 20:28:26 wow cool Dec 06 20:28:35 * blau-MikeDG cries in a corner about buying a real g1 Dec 06 20:28:49 * JesusFreke eyes the buy button Dec 06 20:28:52 that might be fixable. unless you just want the cool paint job. Dec 06 20:29:27 what happens when we reflash the phone Dec 06 20:29:36 i think i might buy it, just to have an actual seperate dev only phone Dec 06 20:29:39 it explodes Dec 06 20:29:55 i meant what happens to the google apps when we reflash Dec 06 20:30:08 oh.. THEY explode Dec 06 20:30:13 Depends if they're on the new system image that you flash. Dec 06 20:30:16 or rather.. are erased. Dec 06 20:30:26 people with rooted phones, we might be able to reflash a fully loaded bootloader onto a normal G1 if you want to live dangerously Dec 06 20:30:26 right.. what jbq said Dec 06 20:30:28 jbq: how do we get them on there? Dec 06 20:30:48 they are included in the dev phone when it ships Dec 06 20:30:54 (the google apps at least) Dec 06 20:31:31 * blau-MikeDG goes to make a list of things he wanted to change if he could reflash android onto his g1 Dec 06 20:31:35 the dev phone includes market / youtube / google maps / streetview / pornhub / gmail ... etc Dec 06 20:31:54 pornhub? Dec 06 20:32:00 oh, woops. that's next release Dec 06 20:32:06 oh ok. Dec 06 20:32:22 I'm sure we'll find a workable solution for the Google apps. Dec 06 20:32:30 that's the one that constantly dials 900-GOOGSEX, right? Dec 06 20:33:03 nah, 1-900-JBQ-RICH Dec 06 20:33:23 nah I was talking about pornhub Dec 06 20:33:38 im stumped by this one error a user reported to me :( Dec 06 20:34:00 blau-MikeDG: are they on t-mobile officially? Dec 06 20:34:00 In 1.0_r1, it was possible for developers to write technically-illegal code by using the Java Reflection APIs to access private or protected fields and methods. 1.0_r2 fixes that problem by enforcing private/protected visibility of items accessed via Reflection. sigh... Dec 06 20:34:25 damn. :( Dec 06 20:34:36 * RyeBrye likes breaking the technical law Dec 06 20:34:59 Users really don't like it when apps break after system updates, though. Dec 06 20:37:23 ok, I think I'm gonna buy the dev phone now. Are we sure it has gps now? ;) Dec 06 20:37:43 because if it for some strange reason doesn't, I'm gonna jump out of a window. Dec 06 20:37:44 I haven't heard anything back either way. Dec 06 20:37:45 it looks completely identical to the g1 Dec 06 20:37:56 yeah well it should be Dec 06 20:38:00 why do you even think it wont have gps Dec 06 20:38:05 but 500 bucks is a lot of money for "should" Dec 06 20:38:19 For all I know it should be the same hardware except for the paint job. Dec 06 20:38:20 I think jbq started that rumour because it's not listed in the features list ;) Dec 06 20:38:31 (may have been someone else) Dec 06 20:38:33 a keyboard isnt listed wither Dec 06 20:38:41 blau-MikeDG: sure it is Dec 06 20:38:47 Actually, someone asked, I just relayed the information. Dec 06 20:38:52 i wa sbeing facetious Dec 06 20:38:52 QWERTY slider keyboard Dec 06 20:39:11 alright, what the hell. I'm gonna click "buy" now. Dec 06 20:39:31 i want it too, just gotta reset my mac for development Dec 06 20:40:04 "saying something like a large number of sms is being downloading to continue press ok to stop hit cancel." Dec 06 20:40:53 * International State & Province <- wth is that? ;) Dec 06 20:44:26 jbq: will it still send tons of sms's to the myfaves number? :( Dec 06 20:45:53 is there no simple way to search for a contact by their phone number? Dec 06 20:46:56 Disconnect: you mean, the devphone? Dec 06 20:47:02 yah Dec 06 20:47:26 I'd be very very surprised if it had myvaves installed, that's specific to T-Mobile US. Dec 06 20:47:59 ..so no myfavs. does that mean no gmail, no contact sync, no maps, no..? Dec 06 20:48:05 I have to admit that I never actually ran that system image on any of my phones. Dec 06 20:48:25 Disconnect: those are from Google, not from T-Mobile, and I think that they're all included. Dec 06 20:48:36 (at least the spec sheet says that they are) Dec 06 20:49:11 how do you keep them included tho, if you're able to reflash platform? i know they aren't getting opened.. are the apks gonna be available or something? Dec 06 20:49:43 anyone have the link for that windows developer tmobile deal? Dec 06 20:50:04 or more importantly, what it is the channel where upgrades for the official apps for the dev phones will be distributed? Dec 06 20:50:08 Disconnect: I don't actually know, to be honest. Dec 06 20:50:09 luok, it doesn't have anything to do with tmobile :D Dec 06 20:50:13 infobot devphones Dec 06 20:50:14 well, devphones is a phone with magical powers and will make all your wildest dreams come true. You can read about them here: http://code.google.com/android/dev-devices.html - in order to buy one, you have to pay a $25 to be in the "developer club" and then you can get into the back room where they keep them behind a curtain of lava. very expensive to ship outside the US, or sporting this: http://tinyurl.com/54sxg2 Dec 06 20:50:17 fair enough. its kinda a concern tho :) Dec 06 20:50:18 no the older one Dec 06 20:50:32 oh, nevermind Dec 06 20:50:35 JesusFreke: there is a discount/rebate for smartphones from microsoft which, for some reason, applies to the g1 also Dec 06 20:50:36 the other deal is a better one for me Dec 06 20:50:42 sorry, I know what you're talking about now luok Dec 06 20:50:43 so when YouTube 2.0 or whatever comes out - how will those with devphones get it? Presumably it will be pushed OTA to g1 owners - but there is probably no OTA on the dev phones Dec 06 20:50:51 RyeBrye: i'd hope not Dec 06 20:50:55 I just don't have a link handy :) Dec 06 20:51:08 but straight out you lose if you reflash the platform (which is what the dev phone is for..) Dec 06 20:51:09 haha crap i think this was it: http://www.microsoft.com/windowsmobile/tmobile3/default.mspx Dec 06 20:51:11 anyone know what freqs the devphones will work on for wcdma? Dec 06 20:51:18 page don't exists Dec 06 20:51:40 I'd assume that people who do development would have a computer and a USB cable and will know how to download an image and flash it. Dec 06 20:51:53 AstainHellbring: UMTS 1700 and 2100 Dec 06 20:51:57 * JesusFreke agrees with jpq Dec 06 20:52:17 thats all for the devphone? thats lame Dec 06 20:52:22 jbq: but the question is where the proprietary apps will come from when they are updated - or how you can restore them if you reflash an OSS tree build and lose your youtube / gmail Dec 06 20:52:29 jbq: that assumes there is some way to -get- the apps to be added to the image.. Dec 06 20:52:45 * Nafai sighs Dec 06 20:52:51 Too many application ideas, too little time Dec 06 20:52:58 an easy first step would be to provide an nbh for download to devs who have bought the phone Dec 06 20:53:06 gah, stupid wifi disconnection... Dec 06 20:53:14 so then you could at least restore to default after banging around on it Dec 06 20:53:25 RyeBrye: i suspect if they wanted to do that they'd have done it already.. Dec 06 20:53:37 * Disconnect would love to see it, but.. Dec 06 20:53:39 Disconnect: this one doesn't have to be signed by HTC though Dec 06 20:53:46 bear in mind that the g1 is from tmobile and the "dev 1" is from google.... Dec 06 20:53:49 Disconnect: this one can be just unsigned or signed by some test key Dec 06 20:53:55 ah i gotcha Dec 06 20:54:14 so thye can have a DEVRESTORE.NBH you could flash with the dev bootloader that can't be flashed on a G1 bootloader - but would reflash the whole dev phone back to a functional / virgin state Dec 06 20:54:19 I would hope this kind of thing would be provided Dec 06 20:54:26 yah Dec 06 20:54:57 If the media player apps were better, the $400 dev phone wouldn't be all that bad for just a media player that takes 16-gig SDHC flash cards :) Dec 06 20:55:05 heh Dec 06 20:55:05 don't even use the phone with it - save battery :) Dec 06 20:55:46 RyeBrye: as long as you have a working unlocked bootloader (and probably a correct partition table and maybe few other basic things) you should be able to recover from bad system partitions and stuff. Dec 06 20:57:06 jbq_: recovering to functional state isn't the concern. It's recovering to a state with the Google proprietary apps that we have no source available for - yet come with the dev phones Dec 06 20:57:26 jbq_: I know you can get it functioning... but if you don't have a full system image to restore from, it's kind of hard to recreate those proprietary apps Dec 06 20:57:33 RyeBrye: yes, one of the first things we need to do is to make the original image available for download. Dec 06 20:57:47 that would be perfect :) Dec 06 20:58:17 jbq_: Ok, that's all I was really wondering about Dec 06 20:58:36 I can't imagine why we wouldn't do that. After all, you guys know how to download G1 images and modify them, so let's be realistic. Dec 06 20:58:46 ahh Dec 06 20:58:49 lol Dec 06 20:58:50 here you are Dec 06 20:59:14 * rev_otto furiously rubs his googly phone hoping an irc client appears Dec 06 20:59:42 you forgot to say "genie, genie, in the phone?" :D Dec 06 20:59:43 good luck with that Dec 06 20:59:44 do any of you guys send 10s of thousands of sms's a month Dec 06 21:00:05 I sent 1 sms last month. does that count? Dec 06 21:00:26 if it were not for the fairer sex I would deign to send any Dec 06 21:00:52 one of my users is having a weird problem Dec 06 21:00:55 My wife and I agreed on e-mail instead of using up our 100 text messages. Dec 06 21:00:55 rev_otto: Do a google search for "irc apk", be pleased. Dec 06 21:01:32 Can you hide MP3s from the music player? Maybe giving it an unrecognizable file extension (does it care)? Dec 06 21:01:51 Well android chat during the dev contest was pretty much a fully running irc except it was bogged down with location aware crud and their servers Dec 06 21:02:07 I don't want a bunch of oddly named podcasts clogging up the Songs list. Dec 06 21:02:52 blau-MikeDG: have they talked to T-mobile? sounds like a carrier issue Dec 06 21:03:17 blau-MikeDG: If I am doing support for a webbrowser, and a user is getting 500 errors on a given web page, that's not my problem... Dec 06 21:04:08 tmob screwed with me so much over the g1 I ended up getting it for free Dec 06 21:10:16 rye: i found one other mention of a problem, im trying to get the user to send me an actual pic of the screen Dec 06 21:10:32 cool Dec 06 21:24:52 oh wow, the back of the dev phone i sdope Dec 06 21:25:16 yeah Dec 06 21:25:20 I want the cover Dec 06 21:25:21 heh Dec 06 21:26:21 rev_otto: so there's no irc yet? that sucks quite a bit. Dec 06 21:26:33 there is an irc app in private beta Dec 06 21:26:40 but I can't remember who is doing it Dec 06 21:26:52 hmm Dec 06 21:26:54 some student doing it for a project iirc Dec 06 21:27:01 supposedly it works though Dec 06 21:27:06 it's a pretty essential app for me Dec 06 21:27:16 more so than shop savy Dec 06 21:27:27 * rev_otto finds a can of tuna cheaper 10 miles away Dec 06 21:27:28 rev_otto: it will be for me too Dec 06 21:28:14 The % of G1 users in on an IRC channel wanting an IRC app probably is skewed by selection bias Dec 06 21:28:34 eh Dec 06 21:28:42 just maybe :) Dec 06 21:28:57 if you had never heard of irc and somebody said, hey need a group chat that's easy Dec 06 21:29:11 i made an irc client that joins this channel Dec 06 21:29:28 oh, blau-MikeDG - are you the one with the private beta thing? Dec 06 21:29:42 no, it was just a proof of concept Dec 06 21:29:45 I've just used telnet and irssi Dec 06 21:29:46 but eh Dec 06 21:29:49 you cant actually send anything to this channel Dec 06 21:29:52 just join Dec 06 21:29:54 :) Dec 06 21:30:35 cool Dec 06 21:30:42 you coudl communicate through nick changes! Dec 06 21:30:47 * RyeBrye thinks_that_would_be_annoying Dec 06 21:31:06 yeah, that woudl get old Dec 06 21:32:32 bleh :p Dec 06 21:32:45 ma nick length is too short Dec 06 21:33:25 max* Dec 06 21:34:59 rev_ott: if no irc app turns up I guess it's gonna be my first program ;) Dec 06 21:38:43 i'm almost done with one Dec 06 21:39:55 ah, is yours the private beta one? Dec 06 21:39:59 no Dec 06 21:40:02 oh, ok Dec 06 21:40:04 mine is going to be open source Dec 06 21:40:13 cool. Then someone can throw on DCC and crap to it Dec 06 21:40:14 and publicly available when its ready Dec 06 21:40:20 (assuming you don't already have it in there) Dec 06 21:40:36 not at the moment Dec 06 21:40:40 but sure, its possible :) Dec 06 21:40:48 make the phone into an auto-file-serving dcc bot :) Dec 06 21:41:45 oh, just for the sake of putting it out thre... does the dev phone come with that 3.5mm headphone adapter like the new G1's do? Dec 06 21:41:53 michaelnovakjr__: what's the program gonna be called, and will we find it on the market? Dec 06 21:41:56 * RyeBrye didn't get a 3.5mm headphone adapter with his phone :( Dec 06 21:42:06 RyeBrye: the site didn't say anything about an adapter Dec 06 21:42:16 it'll be called Conversation, and it will be on the market when its ready Dec 06 21:43:01 michaelnovakjr__: awesome Dec 06 21:43:11 RyeBrye: nope, specs don't mention an adapter. Dec 06 21:43:15 yea rybrye Dec 06 21:43:20 i talked to a CS rep today Dec 06 21:43:22 she said thats false Dec 06 21:43:26 they dont come with adapters Dec 06 21:43:28 i asked for one Dec 06 21:43:31 Oh Dec 06 21:43:33 but she said LIES! Dec 06 21:43:42 Yeah, I thought they did? Dec 06 21:43:55 My G1 that I got this week came with an adapter Dec 06 21:43:55 just order them where i did Dec 06 21:43:59 2.50 shipped Dec 06 21:44:00 i bought 5 Dec 06 21:44:07 where did you get yours? Dec 06 21:44:10 nafai where did you get it Dec 06 21:44:19 Ordered from T-mobile through a local dealer Dec 06 21:44:23 I was thinking a USB + 3.5MM would be good so I could charge it too and plug in headphones Dec 06 21:44:39 RyeBrye: But I would like an adapter so I could do both Dec 06 21:44:45 Nafai: woudl you be willin to testtify to this on a 3-way call with a t-mobile customer service agent? ;) Dec 06 21:44:52 work's been crazy... i'm working the app as much as i can Dec 06 21:44:56 RyeBrye: Sure :) Dec 06 21:44:57 yea i want one of those too for the car ryebrye Dec 06 21:45:09 to have 3.5 to my aux in, and usb to my car charger Dec 06 21:45:10 michaelnovakjr__: What's the app you are working on? Dec 06 21:45:18 IRC app Dec 06 21:45:23 Cool Dec 06 21:45:29 there is one made Dec 06 21:45:36 but hes claiming he will charge for it Dec 06 21:45:39 I was debating just looking to see if I could run the wires myself inside the phone to a 3.5mm adapter inside the phone Dec 06 21:45:41 i pasted a link to the beta apk in the forums Dec 06 21:46:09 hrmm i think its on android-community.com actually Dec 06 21:46:16 or maybe a 2.5mm or something and use a plug adapter on the outside - but I don't know if I feel like dremeling my phone that much Dec 06 21:46:28 dude Dec 06 21:46:28 Nafai: is this a special adapter for the g1, or for more htc phones? Dec 06 21:46:31 i would be down to do th at Dec 06 21:46:35 a hacked 3.5 Dec 06 21:46:43 i bet it would be hard Dec 06 21:46:50 kirberich: It's branded htc, but I don't know if it is special to just the g1 Dec 06 21:46:50 d0netsFN: mine's going to be free and open source Dec 06 21:46:51 and would have to be in the area near the jogball Dec 06 21:47:02 good deal michaelnovakjr_ Dec 06 21:47:06 get'r'dun Dec 06 21:47:09 What is that little hole for by the usb plug? microphone? Dec 06 21:47:18 yea Dec 06 21:47:19 Nafai: that's too bad, because in Germany I probably won't get a special g1 adapter for a few months ;) Dec 06 21:47:34 There seems to be enough space at the top of the phone below the HTC logo Dec 06 21:47:37 get it from china Dec 06 21:47:38 from the tear-apart images I saw Dec 06 21:47:38 kirberich Dec 06 21:47:47 thats where mine was from Dec 06 21:47:53 and it came with free led Dec 06 21:47:59 what? ;) Dec 06 21:48:00 2.50 shipped Dec 06 21:48:03 hm Dec 06 21:48:06 that's cool. Dec 06 21:48:10 you guys want a link? Dec 06 21:48:23 Let me upload a picture of it Dec 06 21:48:34 d0netsFN: sure Dec 06 21:48:46 http://techon.nikkeibp.co.jp/english/NEWS_EN/20081024/160067/ Dec 06 21:48:54 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=280277868575 Dec 06 21:49:08 right next to the camera I think you could put a 3.5mm adapter and run wires down alongside the edge Dec 06 21:49:22 but that might not be the best because of interference with the radio... hmmm.... Dec 06 21:50:24 there's an adapter than can do both audio and usb/charging at the same time Dec 06 21:50:30 it's a bit bulky though Dec 06 21:50:35 d0netsFN: ok seems it's a standard adapter, one should be able to get it in a store even in germany Dec 06 21:50:39 i just got a tmobile g1 Dec 06 21:50:44 unlocked it to att Dec 06 21:50:48 i'm a software dev Dec 06 21:50:51 where should is tart to play Dec 06 21:50:53 JesusFreke: part of the point is to use a dremel :) Dec 06 21:50:57 lol :p Dec 06 21:51:14 bbs: dremel a hole into your phone to put in a headphone jack, then tell us if it worked ;) Dec 06 21:51:41 or use one of these :p Dec 06 21:51:58 ugh. nevermind Dec 06 21:51:59 bbs: but seriously, you mean like what apps are missing? Dec 06 21:52:03 the link is insanely long. Dec 06 21:52:17 well i mean Dec 06 21:52:19 yea kirberich you should, other htc phones use it, like the tytn/tilt Dec 06 21:52:21 ah, there's the shorterish link Dec 06 21:52:22 i would like to start development Dec 06 21:52:22 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=280196511261 Dec 06 21:52:24 infobot tell JesusFreke about tinyurl Dec 06 21:52:28 http://www.travishartwell.net/adapter.jpg <- the adapter I got Dec 06 21:52:31 meh :p Dec 06 21:52:39 kirberich: should i install some rc version of andriod Dec 06 21:52:45 should i leave it as is Dec 06 21:52:49 and use an emulator Dec 06 21:52:51 what is the process Dec 06 21:52:59 i'll be happy to install unstable shit on my personal devices Dec 06 21:53:05 people don't need me that badly by phone Dec 06 21:53:06 infobot tinyurl is a service you can use to make big URLs small http://tinyurl.com/ Dec 06 21:53:07 * infobot runs '/exec tinyurl.sh http://maps.google.com//maps/ms?ie=UTF8&addr=is a service you can use to make big URLs small http://tinyurl.com/' and laughs maniacally! Dec 06 21:53:10 and when they do i'm at work or at school Dec 06 21:53:24 infobot: what the hell was taht? Dec 06 21:53:31 bbs: you really shouldn't need to do anything with your phone, just install the emulator and start poking around, then test if the software works on the phone Dec 06 21:53:35 infobot: tinyurl Dec 06 21:53:42 at least that's the feeling I'm getting, but I don't have my phone yet ;) Dec 06 21:54:11 infobot: tinyurl Dec 06 21:54:32 kirberich: all i run is linux and os x if i have to Dec 06 21:54:34 and freebsd Dec 06 21:54:42 is the emulator available for this platform Dec 06 21:54:42 and where Dec 06 21:55:16 bbs: http://code.google.com/android/ <- there you shall find everything you need. Dec 06 21:55:49 http://www.engadget.com/2008/12/05/sim-hardware-unlocked-android-dev-phone-1-surfaces-for-399/ Dec 06 21:56:06 kirberich: thx Dec 06 21:56:08 peace out Dec 06 21:56:14 i'll bbl with more information on what i'm doing Dec 06 21:56:20 kirberich: you mentioned apps seriously lacking Dec 06 21:56:22 i'm all ears Dec 06 21:56:25 i'll start with one Dec 06 21:56:29 infobot: tell Impossible_ about devphones Dec 06 21:56:40 thanks Dec 06 21:57:15 bbs: that was more of a question. We don't have an irc application yet, but michaelnovakjr__ is working on one. Dec 06 21:57:29 what would stop dev roms leaking onto our devices? Dec 06 21:57:32 the bootloaders? Dec 06 21:57:36 but I'm sure I can tell you about loads of apps I am missing as soon as my device arrives ;) Dec 06 21:58:07 I think I load on about 50+ apps if I do a hard reset Dec 06 21:58:20 there is an irc app Dec 06 21:58:45 d0netsFN: you talking about the one in private beta, or one I don't know about yet? Dec 06 21:59:06 http://countercultured.net/ircbeta.apk Dec 06 21:59:09 yea its a beta Dec 06 21:59:17 that sucks though doesn't it? Dec 06 21:59:23 ah, just not so private anymore? ;) Dec 06 21:59:45 i downloaded that and it was horrible Dec 06 22:00:20 nah Dec 06 22:00:22 its pretty nice Dec 06 22:00:25 and he adds shit every day Dec 06 22:00:32 that apk is updated lots Dec 06 22:00:40 is there a decent gps logger yet? Dec 06 22:00:42 he hangs out in my chan on efnet Dec 06 22:00:55 michaelnovakjr__: what are you considering programming this in Dec 06 22:00:56 best would be one that can upload gps logs Dec 06 22:00:58 hes an efnet admin Dec 06 22:01:01 porting irssi shouldn't ba problem Dec 06 22:01:04 but more than that Dec 06 22:01:09 im worried about a irc app for my g1 Dec 06 22:01:11 bbs i wrote it in Java Dec 06 22:01:17 i dont have enough battery as it is... Dec 06 22:01:18 i've almost got it completed Dec 06 22:01:29 me using it for irc will kill it ;) Dec 06 22:01:32 * RyeBrye has his G1 plugged in pretty much 22 hours a day Dec 06 22:01:39 michaelnovakjr__: well then :) Dec 06 22:01:41 congratz Dec 06 22:01:42 michaelnovakj__ please add password functionality ok? Dec 06 22:01:42 but then again, I also work at a computer all day Dec 06 22:01:49 bbl Dec 06 22:01:50 for bnc's and such Dec 06 22:02:29 d0netsFN: its in there :) Dec 06 22:03:09 michaelnovakjr__: if you need testers, I'm very much avaliable ;) Dec 06 22:03:21 k thanks Dec 06 22:03:28 this one doesnt have that Dec 06 22:03:30 yet Dec 06 22:03:35 i'll make an announcement Dec 06 22:03:35 so it shows my phone ip Dec 06 22:03:39 i really am tempted to ddos it Dec 06 22:03:44 just remember mine will be free, so don't waste money :) Dec 06 22:03:56 thats what i tell him Dec 06 22:04:00 i told him .99 max Dec 06 22:04:04 he wants to charge like 5 bucks Dec 06 22:04:09 that = me pirating it Dec 06 22:04:12 lol Dec 06 22:04:28 therefore: $5 == free. Dec 06 22:04:54 if i can get my guitar tuner ported i might consider making a pro version with all stringed instruments including a piano, adding a metronome and drum machine and chords, for .99 Dec 06 22:05:01 but the guitar tuner wil be free Dec 06 22:05:28 right cuz its got gpl code. of course it'll be free. Dec 06 22:05:33 but ive been dealing with the last 2 weeks of the semester + finals Dec 06 22:05:39 as will all the other instruments Dec 06 22:05:49 yea i think i will have to do the tuner free Dec 06 22:05:50 for all Dec 06 22:06:08 then add the chords metronome and alternate tunings for each instruments Dec 06 22:06:12 i can charge for that? Dec 06 22:06:17 can i* Dec 06 22:06:25 ask a lawyer. but basically no. Dec 06 22:06:45 d0netsFN: it might be possible to charge for the distribution through the market Dec 06 22:06:47 i need to talk to him Dec 06 22:06:55 but you will still need to make the code available for free Dec 06 22:06:57 you can, but you have to give away the source and let other people give it away and change it Dec 06 22:07:06 (See early versions of cygwin, for example) Dec 06 22:07:06 well, at any rate mine will be free and probably better :) Dec 06 22:07:08 and anyone could take the code and redistribute it for free on the market Dec 06 22:07:12 maybe we can split it between everyone involved, and him Dec 06 22:07:29 plus if you don't like it or want to add something, at least i give you the source code Dec 06 22:07:45 techincally you have to give it only to people who buy the app. Dec 06 22:07:59 Disconnect: true, but they then can give it to everyone Dec 06 22:10:19 i like the idea of open source Dec 06 22:10:38 who here doesn't? ;) Dec 06 22:10:41 can i sync with mac os x contacts Dec 06 22:10:45 thats my last question Dec 06 22:10:48 and all that matters atm Dec 06 22:10:48 lol Dec 06 22:12:47 bbs: http://tinyurl.com/5reogy Dec 06 22:12:58 quick question (google hasn't helped me with this so far) ... anyone know if you can listen to music (or any audio besides phone calls) with a bluetooth headset? Dec 06 22:13:21 no, you can't Dec 06 22:13:24 remitaylor: afaik no you can't Dec 06 22:13:25 (yet) Dec 06 22:14:01 bummer :/ thanks guys! i'll buy a headset when you can :) Dec 06 22:17:08 so anyway, what are the apps you guys miss the most right now? Dec 06 22:24:05 kirberich: miss? Dec 06 22:24:12 kirberich: from where? Dec 06 22:24:26 yeah, as in "would love to have it on my g1, but nobody wrote it yet" Dec 06 22:24:44 kirberich: a good geocaching app Dec 06 22:24:52 kirberich: I'd help you write one if you wanted Dec 06 22:25:09 kirberich: Google-accounts linked notepad and RSS reader apps. Dec 06 22:25:19 what ttuttle said Dec 06 22:25:30 i'm not really that into geocaching. What I'd love to have in that area though is a program that tracks my gps position and puts it on a google maps thingy Dec 06 22:25:35 Yeah, I agree with ttuttle Dec 06 22:25:40 ttuttle: yeah that seems missable. Dec 06 22:25:46 kirberich: Also a Facebook client, as the mobile website doesn't let me login and the desktop one is horribly JavaScript heavy. Dec 06 22:26:09 and a notification customizer that lets you set up different types of repeating alerts for different types of notifications Dec 06 22:26:18 kirberich: Also an AIM client that doesn't require a proxy, and an IRC client. Dec 06 22:26:42 kirberich: Oh, and a PDF/word/excel viewer. Dec 06 22:26:43 http://countercultured.net/ircbeta.apk <- for the latter. Dec 06 22:27:09 kirberich: And a nice ebook reader. Dec 06 22:27:22 ttuttle: Yeah, e-book reader too Dec 06 22:27:41 Plucker-compatible Dec 06 22:28:23 alright, thanks for the input. I'm gonna go to sleep now Dec 06 22:28:28 good night! Dec 06 22:29:02 PDF viewer - I bet iText is a bit heavy for android, huh? Dec 06 22:30:25 * ttuttle is really tired of the stream of people trying to find people to chat with by leaving their email addresses in Market comments. Can we ban that? Dec 06 22:33:07 i miss turn based sat nav... eg tomtom Dec 06 22:37:54 ttuttle: hehe how the heck did it become a meme Dec 06 22:38:01 they really just need voting buttons on peoples reviews Dec 06 22:41:03 i want that new dev phone Dec 06 22:42:09 the market is trash as it is Dec 06 22:42:24 reviews need some way to review them, sort them Dec 06 22:42:31 325 character limit is lame Dec 06 22:42:52 for market escriptions Dec 06 22:43:01 i might as well just ask people to text me if they are interested in my app and ill txt them 3! messages back Dec 06 22:43:26 I wish there was some way I could browse the apps off of my phone Dec 06 22:43:34 its even worse now that there isnt an automated way to find updates Dec 06 22:43:54 if i update my app, now i have to use part of the 325 characters to say what was different Dec 06 22:44:06 ive had 3 people email me asking what my app does Dec 06 22:44:13 i wonder how many i lost because the description sucks Dec 06 22:44:24 blau-MikeDG: That is frustrating Dec 06 22:44:37 I admit I probably have passed up some apps because it isn't clear what they do Dec 06 22:44:46 It'll be worse when there are for-pay apps in the store Dec 06 22:44:47 i have too Dec 06 22:45:03 I won't pay for an app if I'm not certain Iwant it Dec 06 22:45:03 the update system does suck Dec 06 22:45:14 They have a retrn period though Dec 06 22:45:37 jasta: Hey are you around man? I have a question about compiling five-server Dec 06 22:45:41 sure Dec 06 22:45:42 i think my first paid app, will be sms backup and restore Dec 06 22:46:10 blau-MikeDG: You seem pretty prolific Dec 06 22:46:35 jasta: "./autogen.sh" spits out "autogen.sh: 3: autoreconf: not found" Dec 06 22:46:37 i enjoy developing for android Dec 06 22:46:44 ITechJunkie: perhaps you should install autoreconf then Dec 06 22:47:04 curiosity more than anything makes me want to charge for an app now Dec 06 22:47:05 lol Dec 06 22:47:20 just to see if people turn on me, like they seem to do with any non free app now Dec 06 22:47:36 jasta: i tried apt-get install autoreconf but it can't find the package Dec 06 22:48:00 is it bundled with something else or am I gonna have to compile that from source? Dec 06 22:48:36 blau-MikeDG: i will :) Dec 06 22:48:47 ITechJunkie: its in autoconf of course Dec 06 22:48:53 I need to start developing for Android Dec 06 22:49:12 jasta: ah, thanks. I'll give that a shot Dec 06 22:50:10 blau-MikeDG: Have you found any resources other than the online docs at code.google.com/android to be helpful? Dec 06 22:50:26 the android developer groups Dec 06 22:50:40 if you have a problem, someone else has probably had it already, so search there Dec 06 22:50:58 this and #android-dev have been valiable as well Dec 06 22:51:01 Nafai: it's useful to take a look at the apps that are provided in the source Dec 06 22:51:24 api demo from the sdk, has been rally helpful as well Dec 06 22:51:27 and fun Dec 06 22:52:01 Thanks Dec 06 22:52:05 i feel like someone could cut and paste sections from there and make almost any app in the market now, except mine, cause they are special Dec 06 22:52:08 :) Dec 06 22:52:29 haha Dec 06 22:52:31 people have Dec 06 22:52:39 how many notepad apps are on the market? Dec 06 22:52:53 its stupid.... why put it on the market when you didn't write it :) Dec 06 22:53:00 And they probably all suck :) Dec 06 22:53:17 i made a notepad app too Dec 06 22:53:20 The only part that really bugs me is that I'm used to nice tools that make object persistence easy Dec 06 22:53:22 i didnt put it on the market though Dec 06 22:53:23 lol Dec 06 22:53:28 so writing my own DB adapters feels like a major PITA Dec 06 22:53:34 i think all i did was change the color and fix a handful of bugs Dec 06 22:53:42 its now yellow :) Dec 06 22:53:47 and shows lines all down the page Dec 06 22:54:22 blau-MikeDG: /me will settle for nothing less than a spiral binding! Dec 06 22:54:57 and i made a shortcut on the desktop using anycut to just start a new page, although i forgot what i put lol Dec 06 22:55:12 i gotta run out Dec 06 22:55:15 ill catch you guys later Dec 06 22:55:24 I just wish I could use something else other than Java to do app development Dec 06 22:55:35 im a fan of java Dec 06 22:55:50 I hear a but? Dec 06 22:56:04 but i dont get to code at my job anymore Dec 06 22:56:15 :( Dec 06 22:56:21 thats the best but i could come up with Dec 06 22:56:24 i just like java Dec 06 22:56:27 oh, ok Dec 06 22:56:55 I guess I just imagined the but :) Dec 06 22:56:59 I'm finally in a job where I don't do Java, and it sucks that my fun projects are going to be Java :/ Dec 06 22:57:13 what's wrong with Java on android? Dec 06 22:57:15 lol Nafai Dec 06 22:57:42 i am not a java lover, but i don't see why people are bummed about java on android..... they've done a nice job with it Dec 06 22:58:03 michael: I find the whole activity/intent thing a bit weird. But I haven't really done enough with it yet to really get to know it Dec 06 22:58:14 michaelnovakjr__: I have nothing against the Java on Android part Dec 06 22:58:25 Java is just not my funnest thing to code in Dec 06 22:58:33 JesusFreke: i thought it was weird at first too, but its really a great system Dec 06 22:58:46 *nod*. I probably just need to spend more time with it :) Dec 06 22:59:29 :) Dec 06 22:59:50 downloading the android source and checking out the apps packaged in there is helpful Dec 06 23:02:20 hey is there an official link for the dev1 g1 Dec 06 23:02:26 where is the ordering site Dec 06 23:02:32 infobot: devphone Dec 06 23:02:40 infobot: devphones Dec 06 23:02:41 from memory, devphones is a phone with magical powers and will make all your wildest dreams come true. You can read about them here: http://code.google.com/android/dev-devices.html - in order to buy one, you have to pay a $25 to be in the "developer club" and then you can get into the back room where they keep them behind a curtain of lava. very expensive to ship outside the US, or sporting this: http://tinyurl.com/54sxg2 Dec 06 23:02:55 follow the link there, then pay $25 to sign up for android market Dec 06 23:03:00 then there's a link to buy Dec 06 23:03:00 lmfao Dec 06 23:03:49 FWIW, the "shipping charges" are no such thing: in fact they are (or at least include) customs fees Dec 06 23:04:00 I found this out earlier today Dec 06 23:04:14 so the high shipping charges for international folks are generally attributable to customs fees Dec 06 23:04:28 the site does not really make this clear, and we've asked them to tweak it Dec 06 23:05:08 You also have to pay tax in the US. Not sure if its everywhere, but at least in Tx Dec 06 23:06:10 got mine ordered, btw :) Dec 06 23:06:40 morrildl, do you know if they'll be shipping soonish? Or is it gonna be a long wait? Dec 06 23:06:54 I don't mind either way, but I would just prefer to know if I'll have to wait Dec 06 23:07:39 hmm ... Dec 06 23:08:15 Hey Jasta, how do i get the setup prompt to display again? Dec 06 23:08:33 itechjunkie, run gconf-editor Dec 06 23:08:33 hey wait do these dev devices come from tmobile or what Dec 06 23:08:39 and go to apps/five Dec 06 23:08:46 and turn off the "setup" option Dec 06 23:08:54 i called tmo today cause my button backlights are stuck on Dec 06 23:08:58 so they are sending me a new one Dec 06 23:09:01 the dev g1 have gps like the G1 ? (this is not present on the website) Dec 06 23:09:04 could i pay the 25$ and just get a dev one? Dec 06 23:09:07 JesusFreke: thanks man Dec 06 23:09:11 np :) Dec 06 23:09:18 been using/doing some work on five also Dec 06 23:10:13 Is there a way to enable multipe watch folders? Dec 06 23:11:59 You can try to add them in the other option in gconf-editor Dec 06 23:12:19 I'm not sure how well it works though Dec 06 23:12:35 otherwise, just make a dummy folder and do symlinks :) Dec 06 23:13:03 JesusFreke: yeah, creating a link sounds way easier :) Dec 06 23:13:10 I don't wanna messup anything Dec 06 23:13:53 well, you can alway just delete the DB and change the configuration back Dec 06 23:14:15 Makes sense Dec 06 23:16:41 is there any way to emulator low memory conditions on the emulator? Dec 06 23:16:57 make an app that allocates a lot of memory? Dec 06 23:17:31 i was hoping for a more controllable way, like settings the memory to a certain amount Dec 06 23:19:15 you could just find a way to get it to boot vista Dec 06 23:19:27 har Dec 06 23:19:46 lol Dec 06 23:19:48 * JesusFreke chuckles Dec 06 23:24:53 has anyone purched the dev g1? Dec 06 23:24:59 does it ship from google? Dec 06 23:25:10 I've ordered mine Dec 06 23:25:13 I robbed a train full of them Dec 06 23:25:13 and no clue :) Dec 06 23:25:18 and I'm burning them right now Dec 06 23:25:23 No human should have such power Dec 06 23:25:36 lol Dec 06 23:25:38 * JesusFreke cackles maniacly Dec 06 23:25:43 helllo Dec 06 23:25:44 jesus where do you order it Dec 06 23:25:46 is it a google site Dec 06 23:25:48 or tmo site Dec 06 23:25:50 or what Dec 06 23:25:56 infobot: devphones Dec 06 23:25:57 extra, extra, read all about it, devphones is a phone with magical powers and will make all your wildest dreams come true. You can read about them here: http://code.google.com/android/dev-devices.html - in order to buy one, you have to pay a $25 to be in the "developer club" and then you can get into the back room where they keep them behind a curtain of lava. very expensive to ship outside the US, or sporting this: http://tinyurl.com/54sxg2 Dec 06 23:25:57 infobot: tell d0netsFN about devphones Dec 06 23:26:00 that link Dec 06 23:26:06 i know that Dec 06 23:26:08 i went there Dec 06 23:26:13 im at the 25$ market fee Dec 06 23:26:16 Mine runs on marshmallows and rainbows and has more than one widget. Dec 06 23:26:19 yeah, you have to do that Dec 06 23:26:30 and then on teh next page there's the link to actually buy it Dec 06 23:26:42 right my question is Dec 06 23:26:49 that link, where is it Dec 06 23:26:58 it's some other company actually Dec 06 23:26:59 i mean, is it a google. link Dec 06 23:27:02 or sears Dec 06 23:27:06 maceys Dec 06 23:27:13 Does anyone know how I can sort this java problem : "Compliance level '1.4' is incompatible with target level '1.5'. A compliance level '1.5' or better is required" ? Dec 06 23:27:16 brightstarcorp Dec 06 23:27:33 it's like google.brightstarcorp.com or something like that Dec 06 23:27:39 definitely not tmob at least Dec 06 23:28:04 ok thats what i was asking Dec 06 23:28:07 http://android.brightstarcorp.com/ Dec 06 23:28:24 (just out of curiosity, what happens when you go there?) Dec 06 23:28:32 without regestering for the market Dec 06 23:28:51 probably just get redirected.. Dec 06 23:28:54 it redirects me to the 25$ market fee Dec 06 23:28:56 it redirects you back to market.android Dec 06 23:29:04 gotcha. figured :) Dec 06 23:29:07 alexissoft: yes, the devphone has GPS Dec 06 23:29:20 morrildl, great. good to know :) Dec 06 23:29:24 JesusFreke: AFAIK they should ship right away, modulo business hours Dec 06 23:29:25 is it the same batter : / Dec 06 23:29:33 battery Dec 06 23:29:34 morrildl, great! :) Dec 06 23:29:38 thanks :) Dec 06 23:29:45 have you guys seen the 1600 mah batter? Dec 06 23:29:48 battery* Dec 06 23:30:16 infobot: 1600 batter Dec 06 23:30:28 fuck i give up, i cant spell battery Dec 06 23:30:34 you just did. Dec 06 23:30:39 :D Dec 06 23:31:42 morrildl: thanks Dec 06 23:31:59 is everyone on here an android developer? Dec 06 23:32:08 i doubt it Dec 06 23:32:16 Not I. Dec 06 23:32:17 i mean im not really a dev Dec 06 23:32:19 I am but a slacker. Dec 06 23:32:23 but im trying to port an app Dec 06 23:32:29 I wasn't, until I bought the dev phone. Dec 06 23:32:31 morrildl: for those of us who might want to jump back between the OSS build and the one that ships with the phone (with the proprietary stuff like Youtube / market) - will there be a place to download a complete image of the Dev phone to restore to? Dec 06 23:33:58 Could you look at this output from the ant script and tell me whats going wrong? I haven't a clue : Dec 06 23:34:30 debug: [echo] Packaging bin/HelloWorld-debug.apk, and signing it with a debug key... [exec] Using keystore: /home/chrisr/.android/debug.keystore [exec] null BUILD FAILED /home/chrisr/code/android/build.xml:230: exec returned: 1 Dec 06 23:35:01 anyone any ideas? Dec 06 23:35:44 RyeBrye: we intend that there is, yes. We are trying to work out with HTC where to host the actual build Dec 06 23:35:57 RyeBrye: but currently there isn't one Dec 06 23:36:08 morrildl: fair enough, just double checking :) Dec 06 23:36:15 morrildl: I'll host it for you, just DCC it to me ;) Dec 06 23:36:27 heh :) Dec 06 23:36:35 im holding off on buying the devphone Dec 06 23:36:43 until i can find a build with youtube, market, etc... Dec 06 23:37:35 blau-MikeDG: it ships with those things - so like I was pestering morrildl - having a restore is at least a good start Dec 06 23:38:03 blau-MikeDG: obviously the upgrade path for that will also need to be defined somehow - since we can't exactly build YouTube 2.0 from source - they'll have to provide some way to get it out to dev phone users Dec 06 23:38:18 or just steal it from G1 builds ;) Dec 06 23:38:50 rye: it ships with them, so does that mean i can pull them off my build and just drop them in? Dec 06 23:38:59 when i put my own build on? Dec 06 23:39:12 blau: probably Dec 06 23:39:23 well... I think you can just pull the apks and resign them - but I don't know the official way of doing this Dec 06 23:39:44 that's what I did with some of the apps that I included in the newest modified RC8 update Dec 06 23:39:46 ok, ill just wait till someone confirms Dec 06 23:39:57 sounds good though Dec 06 23:40:01 just took them from RC30 and dumped them in the /system/app folder.. Dec 06 23:40:23 glad to see this working out Dec 06 23:40:32 go google Dec 06 23:41:25 i think htc just realised they could sucker me into another phone tho Dec 06 23:42:57 <[nine]> anyone tried copying the amazon mp3 apk from a us build to a uk phone and seen if it works? Dec 06 23:44:21 bug or feature, even if you have vibrate for ringing turned off and and set the profile to vibrate, the phone still vibrates Dec 06 23:44:24 <[nine]> probably won't work, as the amazon account used for purchasing needs a us registered credit card, but you never know if there's been any sloppy programming with the checks. Dec 06 23:44:36 <[nine]> blau-MikeDG: feature. Dec 06 23:44:47 <[nine]> i didn't find the vibrate mode until about a week ago. Dec 06 23:44:59 <[nine]> i kept on holding power and selecting silent mode. Dec 06 23:45:11 <[nine]> then wondered why it didn't vibrate. Dec 06 23:45:28 grr i dont like it Dec 06 23:46:17 <_avatar> [nine]: the US amazon mp3 apk won't let you purchase in the UK Dec 06 23:49:45 tmzt_, this would be a better place to discuss this Dec 06 23:50:08 dcordes: sure Dec 06 23:54:06 anyone tried the DriodFtp yet? Dec 06 23:56:56 Andomic, what does it do? Dec 06 23:58:40 oh a true dev phone option! Dec 06 23:59:04 i wish they hadn't introduced it right before the holidays Dec 06 23:59:24 i wish they hadnt released it 2 months after the other Dec 06 23:59:25 <[nine]> dcordes: does the name not give it away? :) Dec 06 23:59:32 * [nine] agrees with blau-MikeDG Dec 06 23:59:48 blau-MikeDG: true Dec 06 23:59:54 <[nine]> if i'd know there was going to be a dev model, i'd have stumped up the cash rather than going on contract. Dec 07 00:00:23 dcordes, it's an ftp client for Android Dec 07 00:00:24 agreed. Dec 07 00:00:39 i wonder if it was an agreement they had with tmobile Dec 07 00:00:52 what's wrong with /usr/bin/ftp - you have a keyboard on the g1 :( Dec 07 00:01:28 <[nine]> dcordes: the non-hacked builds don't have an ftp client. Dec 07 00:02:31 The number of people who've left market comments saying, "What does this FTP program do?" is astounding. Dec 07 00:02:42 yeah, its ok Dec 07 00:02:44 They should have their internet licenses revoked. Dec 07 00:02:45 tmobile was sucking up all the G1 production... Dec 07 00:02:47 no upload though, that sucks Dec 07 00:02:49 wait Dec 07 00:02:52 what's ftp?! Dec 07 00:02:53 ;) Dec 07 00:03:15 but more importantly i need a browser that actually lets me download anything instead of complaining about unknown filetypes Dec 07 00:03:23 tried opera? Dec 07 00:03:28 <[nine]> brocktice: the marketplace comments make me cry. Dec 07 00:03:32 and there's a new browser available on the market Dec 07 00:03:47 [nine], I think that's the general consensus among everyone over the age of 12. Dec 07 00:03:58 <[nine]> brocktice: not least because google haven't put a swearing filter (i'm not opposed to swearing, but idiot children shouldn't be abusive if they want to seem objective). Dec 07 00:04:04 nine: brocktice: is there a way to see the marketplace comments on the web (without a phone)? Dec 07 00:04:14 pfft, You don't want to. Dec 07 00:04:14 [nine]: no different from the rest of the Internet, really Dec 07 00:04:21 Like YouTube comments. Dec 07 00:04:23 <[nine]> pfft: doubt it. try the emulator. see if it has the marketplace app. Dec 07 00:04:32 Only they're insulting people's work. Dec 07 00:04:38 Because they don't understand it. Dec 07 00:04:46 it's a common thing with people, anonyminity makes them revert to the 5 year old idiots they really are deep down inside Dec 07 00:04:59 <[nine]> the g1 should have come with a minimum age clause. Dec 07 00:05:09 <[nine]> and a minimum vocabulary clause. Dec 07 00:05:13 the $399 price wasn't enough? Dec 07 00:05:20 $189 with contract. Dec 07 00:05:28 And if you can get mommy or daddy to pay for it... Dec 07 00:05:35 infernix, try fennec Dec 07 00:05:39 brocktice: just what i was going to say Dec 07 00:05:40 they should have a generic spell and grammar check for the marketplace comments...and if it fails, you have to rewrite it Dec 07 00:05:57 I saw a comment today that had no vowels...it made my head hurt trying to figure out what it said Dec 07 00:06:04 http://www.defectiveyeti.com/iacaptchas/ Dec 07 00:06:20 Can they build that into the next Android build? Dec 07 00:06:38 Marketplace comments are teh S|_|C|< Dec 07 00:06:40 crap i can't see the files in my ftp folder on droidftp,why could that be? Dec 07 00:07:20 RyeBrye: They'd be more entertaining if they used circa 1994 leet speak...but they don't even do that Dec 07 00:07:36 http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2004/03/19/ Dec 07 00:07:47 why the marketplace is the way it is Dec 07 00:07:50 ah yes Dec 07 00:08:27 <[nine]> haha Dec 07 00:08:40 <[nine]> smooth. Dec 07 00:10:16 anyone having issues w/ the file listing w/ the DroidFtp app? Dec 07 00:10:19 i dont see any of the market code in the git repo ... Dec 07 00:10:31 pfft, I'm not brave enough to use FTP anymore... Dec 07 00:10:43 I will buy 5 developer g1 if they come with the g1 ril code Dec 07 00:10:54 ril? Dec 07 00:11:55 i keep seeing reference here to "ril code" ... what is that again? Dec 07 00:12:10 i think i knew at one point Dec 07 00:12:17 now i've forgotten Dec 07 00:12:22 <[nine]> coo, DroidFtp actually works nicely. Dec 07 00:12:24 i've never known Dec 07 00:12:26 <[nine]> shame it's not sftp. Dec 07 00:12:32 [nine], exactly Dec 07 00:12:56 radio interface layer Dec 07 00:13:02 Ah Dec 07 00:13:09 is $20 for a 4g minisdhc about as good as i can expect to find? Dec 07 00:13:16 the software that handles the communication between your android apps and the a9 Dec 07 00:13:27 DarkriftX, I paid only a little more for 8g Dec 07 00:13:29 <[nine]> DarkriftX: try dealextreme. the card you end up with may be a fake, but it's cheap. Dec 07 00:13:33 the actual piece of software that makes it operate as a phone Dec 07 00:13:41 is a blob :( Dec 07 00:13:41 <[nine]> DarkriftX: i bought a fake sandisk 8GB for $8. Dec 07 00:13:46 heh Dec 07 00:14:10 wow, mibbit servers just died lol Dec 07 00:14:40 Or there was a connection issue. Dec 07 00:15:21 bought a 16GB for $60 Dec 07 00:15:33 dcordes: and what is "the a9"? Dec 07 00:15:43 look at the qualcomm brochures Dec 07 00:15:47 for msm7200 Dec 07 00:16:07 they have this nice diagram Dec 07 00:16:43 So I wonder how long it'll be before someone has Wifi access point mode working on a dev phone. Dec 07 00:16:46 http://www.ent.eetchina.com/PDF/2007FEB/DTCOL_2007FEB15_AVDE_RFR_AN_01.pdf?SOURCES=DOWNLOAD Dec 07 00:17:02 dcordes: thank you Dec 07 00:17:05 was just googling for it :) Dec 07 00:17:18 Embedded Qcamcorder eh? Dec 07 00:17:20 ti1251 can do master mode? Dec 07 00:17:30 brocktice, Dec 07 00:17:37 Device can't do it? Dec 07 00:18:23 wow Dec 07 00:19:41 brocktice, Device? Dec 07 00:20:13 dcordes, You said til 1251 can do master mode. I assumed 1251 was some number of the wifi chipset. Dec 07 00:20:14 brocktice, let me rephrase: can the ti1251 wifi driver create master mode interfaces? Dec 07 00:20:29 it's the g1 wifi driver Dec 07 00:20:29 Ah, that I don't know. Dec 07 00:21:04 til1251... there are only 3 hits for that on google. Dec 07 00:21:05 dcordes: do you have a link to the brochure? Dec 07 00:21:27 pfft: he just posted it Dec 07 00:21:28 SAMOEK Dec 07 00:21:45 can the g1 do monitor mode? Dec 07 00:22:26 it's for the msm7200, not msm7201a. but it's the same scheme Dec 07 00:23:27 Its official. Root now means you can flash the engineering bootloader. Dec 07 00:23:33 Save yourself $400. :) Dec 07 00:23:54 ? Dec 07 00:24:27 Disconnect, damn, wish I hadn't given up root on my G1. Dec 07 00:24:30 difference between dev unit and retail unit is engineering bootloader. (and the backplate). we can now flash the engineering bootloader to any retail g1. Dec 07 00:24:43 (any g1 with root) Dec 07 00:24:57 http://www.ecrater.com/product.php?pid=2844191 Dec 07 00:24:58 how much is a non contract G1 though Dec 07 00:25:01 Worked out okay because my wife wanted a G1 anyway. Dec 07 00:25:05 8g for $19 Dec 07 00:25:10 Damn Dec 07 00:25:20 seems decent, although shipping is a little high for what id expect Dec 07 00:25:38 The word "crater" makes me nervous. Dec 07 00:26:22 lol Dec 07 00:26:53 whats the biggest micro sd right now Dec 07 00:27:02 i cant find a 32 gig Dec 07 00:27:08 I think 16 Dec 07 00:27:14 Although I heard 32 is in the pipeline Dec 07 00:27:57 16gig for 54 http://www.google.com/products?q=micro+SDHC+16g&btnG=Search+Products&show=dd&scoring=p Dec 07 00:28:56 56 + free shipping Dec 07 00:29:00 neat Dec 07 00:29:47 that's where the fun starts 16gb rootfs with a proper bootloader Dec 07 00:30:32 I see there is a Skype app for droid, anyone tried it? Dec 07 00:30:38 I haven't tried it Dec 07 00:30:46 outside of intl calls, what's the point? :P Dec 07 00:30:58 I don't think it's VoIP. Dec 07 00:31:07 You can get the same thing with SkypeToGo Dec 07 00:31:43 ... enough room for 10 java ftp clients Dec 07 00:33:40 schweet. fastboot and skateboards. Dec 07 00:33:56 tmob retail gave a hacker a replacement unit w/ dev bootloader. doh. Dec 07 00:33:57 Eh? Dec 07 00:34:09 and now we've all got it Dec 07 00:34:16 * brocktice headdesks Dec 07 00:34:39 but its time to make dinner Dec 07 00:34:42 Egads, how did that happen? Dec 07 00:40:08 same way someone got a dev build of snow leopard on an internal MB Air prototype. Dec 07 00:40:54 unix_infidel, Someone oopsed. I guess HTC in this case. Dec 07 00:41:48 what does that mean in practice? Dec 07 00:42:00 What will the hacker be able to do that he couldn't with a normal unit? Dec 07 00:43:26 dcordes: on android? Dec 07 00:44:19 offby1 : I assume it means that they'll be able to install any build they want, as opposed to just the ones signed for T-Mobile. Dec 07 00:44:49 *shrug* Dec 07 00:44:50 I suspect that it is similar to http://gizmodo.com/5103402/sim+-and-hardware+unlocked-g1-available-to-developers-or-you-for-400 Dec 07 00:45:10 I was thinking someone would say "Now he can control us all!" Dec 07 00:45:16 the truth is less exciting. Dec 07 00:45:25 "One bootloader to bind them." Dec 07 00:47:39 is is possible to bind the Gmail app to another account or multiple accounts? Dec 07 00:48:28 people keep asking that. Dec 07 00:48:38 ...and? I'm guessing no. Dec 07 00:48:39 my hunch is "no", but it's just a hunch. Dec 07 00:48:53 We now have slightly better support for Gmail in K-9. Dec 07 00:49:00 I think the phone asked me for my google account info once, when I first turned it on; and I haven't seen any UI for changing that Dec 07 00:49:20 offby1: of course there is, it's called a factory reset. Dec 07 00:49:28 The default IMAP server does not play well with non-gmail clients. We changed the default to imap.googlemail.com Dec 07 00:49:42 unix_infidel: yeah yeah :) Dec 07 00:49:58 who here using the grandcentral number? Dec 07 00:50:17 I'm using GC. Dec 07 00:50:18 brocktice: what's the elevator pitch for K-9? I mean, in one sentence, what does it offer? Dec 07 00:50:40 i think everyone is dying for a proper mail app. Dec 07 00:50:42 big niche. Dec 07 00:50:43 offby1, Bugfixes, unknown SSL certs, and now exchange. Dec 07 00:50:50 exchange?!?!?! Dec 07 00:50:51 We just posted version 0.19. Dec 07 00:50:52 I'm on it!! Dec 07 00:51:12 Brand new, so be kind. I also can't claim any credit for that, it was some of the other guys on the exchange stuff. Dec 07 00:51:15 I don't recall seeing the word "exchange" in the Market blurb. Dec 07 00:51:22 you should make that prominent if it isn't already Dec 07 00:51:33 [18:29] obra congratulations, exchange support is on trunk Dec 07 00:51:33 [18:30] brocktice Whee! Dec 07 00:51:33 [18:32] obra http://code.google.com/p/k9mail/downloads/detail?name=K9-0.19.apk&can=2&q=#makechanges Dec 07 00:51:36 [18:39] ismarc prepare for wall of bug reports Dec 07 00:51:37 brocktice: y'all using some official MS SDK, or are you reverse-engineering? Dec 07 00:51:40 It's 18:51 here for reference. Dec 07 00:51:45 :) Dec 07 00:51:49 offby1, Don't know, ask in #k-9 Dec 07 00:52:00 how are u liking GC brock? Dec 07 00:52:04 Oh, and email signatures. Dec 07 00:52:11 screenshots? Dec 07 00:52:14 Andomic, Great, wish they'd update it already. Dec 07 00:52:24 what determines the category ("Lifestyle", "Entertainment") that an app is filed under? Does the developer get to pick? Dec 07 00:52:28 unix_infidel, Of exchange support? Dec 07 00:52:38 brocktice: sure. Dec 07 00:52:39 so are u starting to give ppl ur GC number instead of ur cell number? Dec 07 00:52:45 or the application...whatever. Dec 07 00:52:48 I haven't actually installed that APK just yet. Dec 07 00:53:03 unix_infidel, It's a fork of the stock Email client. Most of the changes aren't visual. Dec 07 00:53:19 I think I'm getting an older version -- no mention of Exchange. Dec 07 00:53:21 Although Jesse did change some font sizes, which has had a very polarized reception among users. Dec 07 00:53:33 offby1, Let me take a look. Dec 07 00:54:02 brocktice: ahh, bummer. Dec 07 00:54:02 pity Android doesn't have something like OpenID support -- I HATE typing my password into all these random apps Dec 07 00:54:29 Any reason K-9 is a fork instead of contributing back to the core email app? Dec 07 00:55:00 ahaberlach, Long story. Short version is, we're trying. Dec 07 00:55:06 Cool Dec 07 00:55:33 I know that IMAP is a pain in the ass to make work on every server. Good that there's other people interested in helping. :) Dec 07 00:55:52 OH yeah, I made some fixes to IMAP prefix support. Dec 07 00:56:05 I think we've worked most of the subsequent problems out now. Dec 07 00:56:44 offby1, When you go to add an account you can pick WebDav(Exchange) account on the second screen. Dec 07 00:56:58 offby1: the Exchange support uses WebDAV and form based authentication, so outlook web access has to be enabled Dec 07 00:57:05 Hi ismarc Dec 07 00:57:22 I'm glad you're here because I don't really know much about the exchange support. Dec 07 00:57:28 I'll try it. What the heck, it's just my work account :-| Dec 07 00:57:45 offby1: that's why it was done that way...it's what my work account had available Dec 07 00:58:17 it's only offering me a choice between POP3 and IMAP. Is that because I've got a too-old version? Dec 07 00:58:28 Yeah you need the APK from the link above. Dec 07 00:58:32 ah, ok Dec 07 00:58:42 Wow -- a whole new transport? That's cool. I thought it was just IMAP fixes. Dec 07 00:58:42 I don't think Jesse's got it in the market yet. Dec 07 01:00:29 *whine* "Computing Application Sizes" sure takes a long time *whine* Dec 07 01:00:39 Indeed. Dec 07 01:03:34 ttuttle: you are significantly less special now. just fyi. Dec 07 01:08:33 Yay, DroidFTP does SFTP now. Dec 07 01:14:22 engineering bootloader. its not just for breakfast anymore. http://www.gotontheinter.net/node/7 Dec 07 01:18:57 Damnit; why did I let it upgrade to RC30? Dec 07 01:19:49 heh I let mine update so I wouldn't have to send for another Dec 07 01:19:56 I just got a replacement two days ago Dec 07 01:19:58 with 29 Dec 07 01:20:19 and I just knew I couldn't brick another and look myself in the mirror Dec 07 01:22:10 so has anyyone ordered a the G1 from the Android Market? (sim unlocked, hardware unlocked) Dec 07 01:23:18 So, just what can you do with the engineering bootloader anyway Dec 07 01:23:41 get r00t har Dec 07 01:23:55 I don't think I can justify $400 to for exactly the same thing I just paid $200 for not too long ago. Google should offer me an update to fix the bootloader on my current device. Dec 07 01:24:44 I thought you needed root to do this... Dec 07 01:25:09 we can't Dec 07 01:25:12 but don't let that stop you Dec 07 01:25:13 :) Dec 07 01:25:36 you are free to flash the engy bootloader onto a non-engy phone if you like though Dec 07 01:25:36 :) Dec 07 01:25:41 that's what i do Dec 07 01:32:01 TiberiumX, Tell me about letting it update. Dec 07 01:32:13 I actually reverted to stock RC29 to let it do the OTA. Dec 07 01:32:19 Got cold feet. Dec 07 01:32:38 ITechJunkie: you don't really. you can only set up 1 sync source (a limitation i impose to prevent folks from thinking its piracy software) Dec 07 01:32:46 you could edit or remove the source youve set up though. Dec 07 01:33:12 Awesome re: SFTP on DroidFTP. Dec 07 01:33:23 damn I just bought 2 G1s for something like $500 a pop. They will be hand delivered to me in 3 days Dec 07 01:33:42 A bootloader update would be nice Dec 07 01:39:17 hey whats the price for the G1 for developers ? Dec 07 01:39:24 $399 + $25 Dec 07 01:39:38 its avaliable right now ? Dec 07 01:39:48 AFAIK Dec 07 01:40:09 and whats the difference with it and the retail one ? Dec 07 01:40:34 i mean the t-mobile one? and its unlocked right? Dec 07 01:42:33 P1ro: AFAIK, it is unlocked (SIM and bootloader), so you can stick any SIM into it, and have it boot any kernel you want. Dec 07 01:43:06 nice Dec 07 01:43:19 great Dec 07 01:44:47 well i was thinking that the tm-g1 was with bootloader unlocked too :s Dec 07 01:44:51 nice Dec 07 01:45:53 well Dec 07 01:46:05 brocktice: cold feet? Dec 07 01:46:47 unix_infidel, I was afraid somewhere along the line i'd screw up and brick it. Dec 07 01:46:57 questoin what is the status of widget development Dec 07 01:47:01 question Dec 07 01:47:13 I haven't heard much talk about it Dec 07 01:47:22 brocktice: ditto. Dec 07 01:47:24 damn unsupported shipping country for the Android Dev Phone 1! :D Dec 07 01:47:52 I should purchase some in the states and ship them as engineering samples Dec 07 01:48:08 Ireland should so be supported :P Dec 07 01:48:12 help people avoid vat Dec 07 01:48:16 But i've managed to have someone order one for me Dec 07 01:48:19 so I'm happy Dec 07 01:48:24 steventroughtons, Too hard to ship things to islands you know. Dec 07 01:48:25 they qualify as engineering samples Dec 07 01:48:31 they aren't commercial goods Dec 07 01:48:32 brocktice: UK is supported ;) Dec 07 01:48:39 Well, it's a bigger island. Dec 07 01:48:42 hehe Dec 07 01:49:19 best 16G for the G1 ? Dec 07 01:50:09 * unix_infidel expects some decent 8 or 16GB microSD deals in coming weeks. Dec 07 01:50:29 It's like they listed every country in europe, just forgot us Dec 07 01:50:30 grr Dec 07 01:54:37 * snadge is at Starbucks at LAX, on my g1 :P Dec 07 01:54:50 using hotspot connect? Dec 07 01:55:37 its a tmobile hotspot, $5.99 for 24 hours Dec 07 01:55:53 Uploaded:  Today (83 minutes ago) Dec 07 01:56:25 oooooh, i wish the market could send an email/sms when new stuff is added to specific categories Dec 07 01:56:27 that would be nice Dec 07 01:57:00 * offby1 grumbles Dec 07 01:57:16 I'm already paying T-mobile many $$/month for Android ... I wish their hotspots were free Dec 07 01:57:31 or at least they could send me a gift card every year, good for an hour or two Dec 07 01:57:34 offby1: they are. for tmobile customers. Dec 07 01:57:42 really? Dec 07 01:57:49 or you could tether your G1 to your laptop. Dec 07 01:57:53 pfft Dec 07 01:58:44 unix_infidel: I'll check again. Coulda swore, though, last month in an airport I pointed the phone's browser at the t-mobile signup page, and it was talkin' 'bout $5/day or something Dec 07 01:58:54 im going to be tmobile free when i get back to oz in about 16 hours or so :) Dec 07 02:00:03 with an unlocked g1, yay Dec 07 02:00:13 unix_infidel: from their site: T-Mobile voice plan customers - get exclusive Wi-Fi pricing. Save 50% on T-Mobile HotSpot!* Dec 07 02:00:23 "Save 50%" strongly suggests "not free" :-| Dec 07 02:00:31 maybe it's cheap enough to be worthwhile, though; let's see. Dec 07 02:00:48 ugh, $10/month Dec 07 02:00:50 snadge: oz = australia ? Dec 07 02:00:51 Not Worth It Dec 07 02:01:08 pfft, what was uploaded? Dec 07 02:01:20 well, im going to be at LAX for another few hours, so itss worth it for me Dec 07 02:01:36 brocktice: I accidentally posted the time since the last k9 upload Dec 07 02:01:40 oh Dec 07 02:02:33 pfft: yes Dec 07 02:02:52 snadge: why are you leaving so soon? where r u at? Dec 07 02:03:47 offby, what plan do you have, mine lets me connect to hotspts Dec 07 02:03:48 end of round the world holiday, wanted to check in early to avoid stressing out Dec 07 02:03:49 hotspots Dec 07 02:03:54 snadge: oh LAX ... sorry missed that Dec 07 02:04:06 snadge: congrats on the new unlocked phone Dec 07 02:04:50 http://code.google.com/android/dev-devices.html <-- holy crap! Dec 07 02:04:58 no way! Dec 07 02:05:02 i like it. just wanted something that could ssh, and it does that nicely Dec 07 02:05:07 yes way! Dec 07 02:05:17 lol swetland Dec 07 02:05:21 I was just googling info on the Agora when I stumbled into it. Awesome! Dec 07 02:05:42 Do the market and openmarket.com have anything in common? Dec 07 02:05:48 jf: sorry. slow day. ^^ Dec 07 02:06:07 Can anyone confirm the shipping price for Canada? Dec 07 02:06:11 pfft: hmm. they both have market in their name.. they have that much in common :D Dec 07 02:08:10 is there a guide somewhere for flashing these g1s, cos i got as far as starting a telnetd and getting a root shell, but couldn't figure out what recovery mode was Dec 07 02:08:26 sure Dec 07 02:08:39 check on the xda dream development board Dec 07 02:08:52 there are some marked threads Dec 07 02:09:13 i think im still on rc28, but it doesn't bug me to upgrade anymore Dec 07 02:09:41 just upgrade to a patched rc30 Dec 07 02:09:47 and you'll be fine Dec 07 02:09:54 know much about linux? Dec 07 02:10:25 that was what i was attempting to do, using to different sources, and it confused me more Dec 07 02:10:38 s/to/two Dec 07 02:11:03 hmm, my trackball doesn't work unless I push down on it a little while I roll it :-| Dec 07 02:11:21 you need to flash the updated recovery image first Dec 07 02:11:38 i did that part Dec 07 02:11:44 i can buy more that one g1 for devs on the android market ? Dec 07 02:11:53 P1r0: I believe not Dec 07 02:12:20 or register two accs with the same google checkout Dec 07 02:12:22 then just get an rc30 patched update Dec 07 02:12:32 put it on the sdcard as update.zip Dec 07 02:12:38 At this point it's one per developer. Please be nice and don't abuse it. Dec 07 02:12:38 and follow the directions Dec 07 02:13:52 and eat a well balanced breakfast Dec 07 02:14:05 so if i put the update.zip on the sd, it will automatically load that? Dec 07 02:14:14 I am just making toast Dec 07 02:14:45 i think thats the part i havn't done Dec 07 02:15:04 you have to boot into recov mode Dec 07 02:15:14 pwr-home Dec 07 02:16:59 thats the bit i didnt know, i thought it was home+back, which seems to be reset Dec 07 02:18:51 android sdk is all java, but sits on linux kernel ? Dec 07 02:19:07 im curious as to why its not prompting me to update to rc30 anymore Dec 07 02:19:21 ZeZu: actually, there's a lot of native code in user-space. Dec 07 02:19:56 ZeZu: but the only currently supported set of APIs for 3rd-party development is only accessible through the Java programming language. Dec 07 02:20:43 so one can run a native app easily? Dec 07 02:21:20 It depend on what you call "easily". Nothing is done to explicitly prevent it, but nothing is done to help it either (no documentation, no samples, etc...). Dec 07 02:21:48 ok, thanks Dec 07 02:21:50 In a nutshell, you're on your own, and you have nobody to complain to but yourself if your application breaks in the future. Dec 07 02:21:56 course Dec 07 02:21:59 zezu, even on official builds, you can copy binaries to /data/local and run them Dec 07 02:22:08 I didn't know how accessible the linux subsystem is really Dec 07 02:22:17 you have to cross-compile the binaries, obviously Dec 07 02:22:33 no native compiler ?? (j/k) Dec 07 02:23:06 I'm looking at writing some emulators, and using java would be a PITA to get good performance out of Dec 07 02:23:07 JesusFreke: hey, you're that guy that made the image i'm about to flash my phone with Dec 07 02:23:10 JesusFreke: neat :) Dec 07 02:24:29 :) Dec 07 02:24:44 zezu, with some work, extremely accessible Dec 07 02:24:47 how does the UI operate? Its not X is it ?? / how do 3d drivers work? have to be fb drivers ? Dec 07 02:25:13 saurik wrote a guide on getting a pretty full userland up on the sdcard Dec 07 02:25:32 and most stuff that doesn't have to hit hw directly works fine Dec 07 02:25:42 I dont have a handset, i'd be looking at getting it running on omap3 Dec 07 02:25:51 ZeZu: there's no generic answer to that... since it might change (though it's not likely). It's not X, and little of it is written with native code other than the low-level compositor. Dec 07 02:25:56 my g1 is running openafs and kerb5, put it that way :) Dec 07 02:26:42 I'm interested in how i could handle hardware 3d graphics then, most linux drivers are DRI ... which blows Dec 07 02:26:52 ZeZu: your best bet to get answers to those questions is to head over to http://git.source.android.com/ and read through the source code. Dec 07 02:27:01 probably Dec 07 02:27:22 * sparkle nods Dec 07 02:27:26 figured someone in here might know and answer a lot quicker than reading through tons of headers or 50k lines of source Dec 07 02:27:38 it's a fundamentally different model Dec 07 02:28:12 well thanks guys Dec 07 02:28:45 Holy crap! Dec 07 02:28:56 Shipping on the dev phone to Canada is $264.49. Dec 07 02:29:04 * JesusFreke blinks Dec 07 02:29:08 ZeZu: check around here for some relevant source code: http://android.git.kernel.org/?p=platform/frameworks/base.git;a=tree;f=opengl;h=d55122a1e27338315b63f28af0b3364d93058827;hb=master Dec 07 02:29:16 there is apparently some insanity with customs fees Dec 07 02:29:36 orospakr: that includes all taxes, duties, fees (and shipping itself, of course). Dec 07 02:29:56 Wow. I've bought stuff from the US before, but it's never been that crazy! Dec 07 02:30:07 Including "developer" hardware from both OLPC and OpenMoko. Dec 07 02:31:04 yeah, I don't understand why it's that expensive. there has (obviously) been unhappiness about that and I know it's being looked into, but I'm not sure if it's something that will be easily/quickly resolved. Dec 07 02:37:01 can i get a crc or md5 on the JesusFreke modified rc30? Dec 07 02:37:11 i wanna make sure i have the right zip before i screw this up somehow :p Dec 07 02:38:59 sec maqr, lemme get it for you Dec 07 02:39:21 update_TC4-RC30_full_xda-dev_v1.2.zip - 68eec9a22747accc3d51076ad465505f Dec 07 02:40:10 oh, i had 1.1, that isn't right at all Dec 07 02:40:17 JesusFreke: where do i get that one? Dec 07 02:40:35 http://android-dls.com/wiki/index.php?title=Keeping_Root <-- this is the page i was reading Dec 07 02:41:40 maqr: Dec 07 02:41:40 http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=443713 Dec 07 02:42:18 JesusFreke: and i can use this from my rc28 phone? Dec 07 02:42:28 it says 'update', so maybe i need rc29 first? Dec 07 02:44:44 yes, it will work with any version, as long as you have the modified recovery image installed Dec 07 02:45:05 ok, i can do that Dec 07 02:45:14 maqr, heh, i was once reading that page as well and got the wrong one... i almost edited the wiki but then i saw the note a bit further down with a llink to the xda thread^^ Dec 07 02:45:33 eldenz: maybe edit the wiki, i don't feel like i should do it :/ Dec 07 02:45:38 maqr: fixed wiki to link to 1.2 Dec 07 02:45:50 not having root sucks :/ any progress on a fix? Dec 07 02:45:53 thanks jammr Dec 07 02:46:03 seems like public can't edit anymore now though... Dec 07 02:46:26 jammr, is it yours? Dec 07 02:46:47 I don't think you mean me? Dec 07 02:46:50 * DarkriftX goes back to his beer and his g1 Dec 07 02:47:01 weird, my md5 for the 1.2 version says 68EEC9A22747ACCC3D51076AD465505F Dec 07 02:47:05 err, sry, meant DarkriftX Dec 07 02:47:17 eldenz: i disabled that Dec 07 02:47:26 some fuckwads were adding massive spam and deleting the whole wiki Dec 07 02:47:32 not asking because of that... but you could enable canonical urls :) Dec 07 02:47:34 its a quick register though Dec 07 02:47:40 url rewriting Dec 07 02:48:12 * DarkriftX hates htaccess :S Dec 07 02:48:27 why? Dec 07 02:48:31 because i suck at it Dec 07 02:48:32 lol Dec 07 02:48:36 always mess soemthing up Dec 07 02:48:50 i think you should find it somewhere in the doc... copy&paste job imo Dec 07 02:48:55 maqr, that's fine Dec 07 02:49:00 have never set up a mediawiki so i don't know it myself Dec 07 02:49:01 caps/no caps doesn't matter Dec 07 02:50:46 oh, i misread then Dec 07 02:50:46 DarkriftX, http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Short_URL#Setup_steps Dec 07 02:51:01 i think that onyl works if your wiki is the root Dec 07 02:51:27 hey RyeBrye, I'm looking at your twitter Dec 07 02:52:01 DarkriftX, nope Dec 07 02:52:06 k Dec 07 02:52:31 and have root access (so you can modify httpd.conf; modifying .htaccess is not enough!) Dec 07 02:52:37 that wont work on shared hosting Dec 07 02:53:12 is 'adb shell' not root? Dec 07 02:53:13 http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Short_URL#Other_how-to_mini-guides Dec 07 02:53:18 ^^ Dec 07 02:54:02 oh you have got to be kidding me Dec 07 02:54:18 T-Mobile gave someone a warranty replacement with the unlocked bootloader? Dec 07 02:54:31 morrildl: ? Dec 07 02:54:32 morrildl, Apparently. Dec 07 02:54:36 I'd blame HTC. Dec 07 02:54:39 Or thank. Dec 07 02:54:46 * maqr is still wondering what AndroidMod is, exactly Dec 07 02:54:54 Eh well Dec 07 02:55:11 Somewhat disturbing, from a QC perspective Dec 07 02:55:11 So how is this going to work with the dev phones? http://android.git.kernel.org/?p=platform/vendor/htc/dream.git;a=blob_plain;f=README.txt Dec 07 02:55:29 morrildl, And that's how they've shipped flash drives with viruses etc... Dec 07 02:55:42 They != HTC Dec 07 02:55:52 but manufacturers in general Dec 07 02:56:12 brocktice: we're working on getting flashable "official" images put together for the dev phones (mostly sorting out who hosts them and where) Dec 07 02:56:24 they'll be installable over usb using the fastboot update command Dec 07 02:56:26 swetland: do you think that will unlock the baseband too? Dec 07 02:56:39 what do you mean by "unlock the baseband"? Dec 07 02:56:56 swetland: let me use non-tmo sim chips in the phone to make calls? Dec 07 02:57:01 swetland, So it'll be possible to get the blobs somewhere. Dec 07 02:57:03 the dev phones are not network/sim locked -- they'll work on any GSM/GPRS/UMTS network compatible with the radio Dec 07 02:57:27 swetland: i read that about the dev phones, but what about a tmo g1 that you re-flash with the dev image? Dec 07 02:57:38 maqr, sshhh Dec 07 02:57:45 radio locking is handled on the radio side Dec 07 02:58:00 T-mobiel will unlock them after 90 days anyway. Dec 07 02:58:03 tmo will give you Dec 07 02:58:04 *T-mobile Dec 07 02:58:04 exactly Dec 07 02:58:05 morrildl : Yeah, I was concerned about the QC aspects of that as well. Dec 07 02:58:16 Maybe sooner if they like you. Dec 07 02:58:25 *sigh* it takes forever till android comes to germany Dec 07 02:58:47 flaushy: not if you get one of the unlocked phones Dec 07 02:59:08 the dev ones? Dec 07 02:59:15 flaushy: I guess Dec 07 02:59:32 brocktice: i know, i was just wondering if that'd be part of the dev image Dec 07 02:59:50 i am thinking about getting an freerunner and reflashing, i think android runs on it, at least i heard it :/ Dec 07 02:59:52 maqr, Yes, I see the distinction now. **** ENDING LOGGING AT Sun Dec 07 02:59:57 2008