**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Dec 09 02:59:57 2008
Dec 09 03:00:29 <grey-> oh man.
Dec 09 03:00:35 <grey-> imma have to bust asheesh later.
Dec 09 03:03:53 <snadge> how do i use connectbot to share ssh/http via socks?
Dec 09 03:04:04 <sparkle> you don't
Dec 09 03:05:42 <grey-> you're thinking of openssh -D?
Dec 09 03:05:43 <snadge> what app do i use for that, my desktop has lost net connectivity, my g1 can access data via wifi, the pc is pklugged in via adb cable
Dec 09 03:06:14 <Disconnect> SanMehat: tethering
Dec 09 03:06:22 <Disconnect> ..damn, not nearly as useful as a bot.
Dec 09 03:06:35 <Disconnect> in any case, there is usb and bluetooth tethering out there.
Dec 09 03:06:41 <Disconnect> you'll have to google it
Dec 09 03:08:19 <snadge> on a 3" screen, great ;)
Dec 09 03:08:43 <unix_infidel> snadge: you mean setup a port bouncer?
Dec 09 03:08:55 <unix_infidel> you can use tehterbot for that. to use bluetooth...you probably need root.
Dec 09 03:09:16 <snadge> tetherbot, great
Dec 09 03:09:37 <snadge> i just want a simple proxy that will do ssh/http
Dec 09 03:12:10 <Leeds> Disconnect: where did infobot go?
Dec 09 03:12:48 <Disconnect> Leeds: they kicked it because it was full of crap, it was speaking when not spoken to and (most importantly) it was logging on the web.
Dec 09 03:13:02 <Leeds> I wonder who invited him in here in the first place then...
Dec 09 03:13:07 <unix_infidel> infobot is a pybot?
Dec 09 03:13:23 <Disconnect> so i set up android to not do all that, and filled it in with all 30 of the g1 facts infobot had. then RyeBrye was abusing it so SanMehat kicked it and wandered off.
Dec 09 03:13:36 * RyeBrye abuses inanimate objects
Dec 09 03:13:53 <Leeds> bah
Dec 09 03:14:28 <RyeBrye> I wasn't the ONLY one abusing it
Dec 09 03:14:35 <RyeBrye> it was basically a bot-abuse orgy
Dec 09 03:14:43 <Leeds> I missed the orgy???
Dec 09 03:14:51 <Disconnect> erm. not really. mostly it was just you.
Dec 09 03:15:10 <RyeBrye> no, jsharkey was too
Dec 09 03:15:11 <RyeBrye> I have the logs
Dec 09 03:15:19 <Leeds> hmm, one-man orgy not so much fun
Dec 09 03:15:19 <Disconnect> in fact, it was entirely just you.
Dec 09 03:15:21 <RyeBrye> I'm posting them to the web automatically... because I'm a.... err....
Dec 09 03:15:34 <Disconnect> i was thinking of doing that as well just cuz.
Dec 09 03:15:43 <Disconnect> although the name was unfortunate (and is changed)
Dec 09 03:15:51 <RyeBrye> yeah, the name was kind of the problem :)
Dec 09 03:16:00 <Disconnect> the 'you are a moron' triggers when you do a bunch of <botname> * that it doesn't understand
Dec 09 03:16:21 <jsharkey> Disconnect: sorry about that  :(
Dec 09 03:16:38 <RyeBrye> see - even jsharkey admits there were multiple abusers! :)
Dec 09 03:16:49 <Nafai> Ugh
Dec 09 03:17:05 <Nafai> Trying to get my company calendar to show up on my google calendar securely is a pain
Dec 09 03:17:39 <Disconnect> ..thats because there is nothing secure about sending your company calendar to an outside company
Dec 09 03:19:49 <Disconnect> lacking a bot (and an intense desire to keep googling teh same questions over and over all day) I think i am gonna post a googlable set of channel logs. that'll at least give an alternative info source for people
Dec 09 03:20:06 <Nafai> Disconnect: Well, I can share my calendar with required authentication, but I can't get Google to do the auth.  The only other alternative is to have it wide open and so anyone who uses the same server software and knows my e-mail address can get to my calendar
Dec 09 03:20:17 <Nafai> I'm okay with sharing with Google.  It's the rest of the world I don't want to share with
Dec 09 03:20:42 <jsharkey> Nafai: can you do an htaccess ip-block accept/deny?
Dec 09 03:21:02 <jsharkey> i wonder if someone has all google server ip blocks in nice cidr notation somewhere
Dec 09 03:21:11 <Nafai> jsharkey: If I had admin access to the server, which I don't
Dec 09 03:21:26 <jsharkey> ooh, but the way you might work around that is by using google translate with en
Dec 09 03:21:30 <jsharkey> en|en
Dec 09 03:21:38 <jsharkey> *work around==hack it  ;)
Dec 09 03:21:58 <Nafai> It looks like I'm going to have to write an application that does an HTTP get locally and then pushes to a google calendar
Dec 09 03:22:09 <Nafai> Since I can do a share from my local client on my desktop at work
Dec 09 03:22:25 <Disconnect> or you could ask in an appropriate forum instead..
Dec 09 03:22:43 <Nafai> I've searched
Dec 09 03:23:07 <Disconnect> and this was the best place you could find to ask? google runs -tons- of groups. and a bunch of them for each google app.
Dec 09 03:23:35 <Nafai> I was more of whining, sorry to bother
Dec 09 03:28:45 <Neverender1> "i dont ride the train" (1 star)
Dec 09 03:28:51 <Neverender1> -comment on the Caltrain Schedule app in the market
Dec 09 03:28:55 <Neverender1> wtf
Dec 09 03:29:10 <mib_3g3993> this is wack
Dec 09 03:31:27 <Leeds> Disconnect: doesn't the message say "no publicly-accessible logging"?
Dec 09 03:31:41 <Disconnect> what message?
Dec 09 03:31:50 <bgupta> Any chance we can get a link to the unoffical Android FAQ in the channel header? http://android-dls.com/wiki/index.php?title=Android_FAQ
Dec 09 03:32:07 <RyeBrye> bgupta: the /topic appears to be sacred
Dec 09 03:32:50 <Disconnect> bgupta: no. we'll just have to get sanmehat to feed people the url when they need it.
Dec 09 03:32:51 <jsharkey> i can understand about them not wanting topic links pointing at stuff they dont directly control
Dec 09 03:33:27 <jsharkey> "freednode" heh
Dec 09 03:34:04 <jsharkey> Disconnect: does the bot somehow interface with that wiki page to learn new stuff?
Dec 09 03:34:08 <jsharkey> cuz that would be cool
Dec 09 03:34:20 <Disconnect> jsharkey: what bot would that be?
Dec 09 03:34:57 <jsharkey> the one i kinda got kicked earlier  *shame*
Dec 09 03:35:23 <Disconnect> also, despite cnn trying to prove otherwise, microblogging is not the same as documentation or news.
Dec 09 03:35:41 <snadge> how do i download something to the sdcard with g1 browser?
Dec 09 03:35:47 <Disconnect> click on it
Dec 09 03:36:08 <snadge> it doest ask where to save it?
Dec 09 03:36:14 <bgupta> Disconnect, microbloggin can be very similar to a an AP or Reuters news feed though. (Assuming everything has links)...
Dec 09 03:36:17 <Disconnect> ...right. because it saves it to the sd card.
Dec 09 03:36:36 <bgupta> ohh. that's a good question for the FAQ
Dec 09 03:36:39 <Disconnect> bgupta: thats called a headline, not microblogging. and still has no utility in the wiki.
Dec 09 03:36:57 <bgupta> ah missed the context..
Dec 09 03:37:02 <bgupta> agreed
Dec 09 03:37:03 <Disconnect> SanMehat: downloads are saved to the sdcard automatically.
Dec 09 03:37:21 <Disconnect> SanMehat: downloads also only accept files that apps on the g1 have registered handlers for.
Dec 09 03:37:44 <snadge> ok sure, but now it says it refuses to downloaqd because the content type is not supported
Dec 09 03:37:53 <Disconnect> SanMehat: tell snadge about downloads
Dec 09 03:37:57 <pfft> anyone have an apk for a fun game i can try on the emulator?
Dec 09 03:38:10 <pfft> err ... a link
Dec 09 03:38:36 <Disconnect> andappstore prolly has a few
Dec 09 03:39:01 <pfft> Disconnect: could i try them on the emulator?
Dec 09 03:39:46 <Disconnect> "is there a blue ball?" "here is a blue ball" "but is it blue?" .. seriously.
Dec 09 03:39:53 <pfft> git does not contain Market :-(
Dec 09 03:40:00 <bgupta> bbiab
Dec 09 03:40:56 <pfft> not sure how to install market on the emulator
Dec 09 03:41:15 <Disconnect> you don't
Dec 09 03:41:21 <maqr> so... GMail now has Tasks... any idea when that's going to end up in android?
Dec 09 03:41:40 <pfft> don't see why not
Dec 09 03:41:53 <jsharkey> pfft: http://andpipes.anddev.org/ is one
Dec 09 03:42:00 <Disconnect> ..because its a clsoed source app that only runs on the g1?
Dec 09 03:42:06 <pfft> jsharkey: thanks!
Dec 09 03:42:23 <pfft> Disconnect: their loss
Dec 09 03:42:57 <snadge> so how do i add dl handler for zip files?
Dec 09 03:43:11 <Disconnect> write an app that can unzip them
Dec 09 03:43:13 <Disconnect> and install it
Dec 09 03:44:14 <pfft> jsharkey: i dont see a link to the apk
Dec 09 03:44:15 <Leeds> unzipping is pretty easy - there's support in the stdlib...
Dec 09 03:44:18 <snadge> thats kind of lame, i dont care if the phone cant use it, i just want to access it from my pc as usb storage
Dec 09 03:44:28 <jsharkey> pfft: yea he used to link to an apk  :/
Dec 09 03:44:54 <pfft> jsharkey: thanks for the thought
Dec 09 03:45:11 <pfft> jsharkey: his loss :-)
Dec 09 03:46:14 <jsharkey> grr /why/ is he using another app store  >:/
Dec 09 03:46:14 <jsharkey> fail
Dec 09 03:47:00 * jsharkey goes to explore and find dinner
Dec 09 03:47:27 <SanMehat> back
Dec 09 03:48:02 <Chainfire> dang, Google going to sell a truely open G1?? /me sells current G1
Dec 09 03:48:31 <Disconnect> or just flash the dev bootloader
Dec 09 03:48:35 <offby1``> The Curse of the Early Adopters™
Dec 09 03:48:55 <Chainfire> actually I wonder more if other carrier devices are going to be locked or not
Dec 09 03:49:01 <Disconnect> of course they are
Dec 09 03:49:27 <Chainfire> you expect most phones to come out to be like the current G1 and not open?
Dec 09 03:49:32 * Disconnect is gonna be -really- surprised if adp1 gets market, for example. (or at least, paid market apps. which they probably still haven't figured out how to secure..)
Dec 09 03:49:59 <Disconnect> yep. lower support cost. more control over paid content. ability to enable/disable features as desired (think voip.)
Dec 09 03:50:03 <Disconnect> or tethering
Dec 09 03:50:44 <bparker06> where is com.android.net.http.RequestQueue ? it's not in android.jar...
Dec 09 03:51:15 <maqr> bparker06: hey, i know you
Dec 09 03:51:22 <bparker06> hi
Dec 09 03:51:25 <maqr> :)
Dec 09 03:52:05 <bparker06> ヨ
Dec 09 03:52:10 <Disconnect> http://groups.google.com/group/android-beginners/browse_thread/thread/91450139824b8560/aeeac5ce05893c93?fwc=1
Dec 09 03:52:37 <Leeds> I am still really interested to know how the paid market is going to work
Dec 09 03:52:48 <bparker06> maqr: trying to find a painless way to do http get/post
Dec 09 03:52:54 <Disconnect> poorly, given the number of rooted devices out there.
Dec 09 03:53:21 <pfft> What is the logic behind this statement?
Dec 09 03:53:35 <pfft> "Why do you need a download link for an APK?  Otherwise non-free APPS will be everywhere..."
Dec 09 03:53:48 <Disconnect> that statement isn't even english.
Dec 09 03:53:54 <pfft> Disconnect: agreed
Dec 09 03:54:15 <Disconnect> rather, they are two completely unrelatable statements.
Dec 09 03:54:28 <Leeds> pfft: where did that come from?
Dec 09 03:54:33 <pfft> comments on android apps make my head hurt
Dec 09 03:54:51 <Disconnect> at least they aren't election related anymore.
Dec 09 03:55:01 <pfft> Leeds: it came from here ... http://slideme.org/content/andpipes-demo
Dec 09 03:55:32 <pfft> i think he was trying to explain to another commenter about why they do not provide links to apk files.
Dec 09 03:55:36 <Chainfire> Disconnect I'm not following your statement about paid apps?
Dec 09 03:55:46 <Leeds> oops
Dec 09 03:55:56 <Disconnect> i seriously think its time for community karma comments. too many ratings down/flags and your comments all go up for moderation. get flagged as a troll and your market access is revoked.
Dec 09 03:56:11 <Disconnect> pfft: probably he doesn't want people mirroring it.
Dec 09 03:56:35 <Leeds> he doesn't want people using his demo instead of paying
Dec 09 03:56:40 <bert0> Disconnect who would decide what is acceptable?
Dec 09 03:56:44 <Leeds> or he wants the ability to upsell other apps
Dec 09 03:57:04 <Disconnect> Chainfire: security in general relies on access controls and trusted input. (for example, it reads imei and knows that i can't alter the app code) .. none of these things are guaranteed on a rooted/dev unit.
Dec 09 03:57:17 <Disconnect> bert0: community clicks "flag this".
Dec 09 03:58:00 <Chainfire> Disconnect> well I have some experience with commercial apps on WM ... which is pretty much rooted/dev by default... still piracy is not that big of an issue, really
Dec 09 03:58:02 <bert0> Perhaps you could choose to see flagged comments still?
Dec 09 03:58:48 <Disconnect> Chainfire: how many platform/os hackers are there on wm? its not nearly as easy to attack
Dec 09 03:59:26 <Disconnect> here i can say "ok market uses imei+serial, so i just replace that with my version that feeds in different values for each app"..
Dec 09 03:59:52 <Chainfire> what makes Android easy to attack then? I mean, I can take an EXE from WM, modify some assembler, put it back, voila
Dec 09 04:00:10 <Disconnect> no asm. no exe. no modifications to the app at all.
Dec 09 04:00:27 <Disconnect> i can make the OS lie to the app. without asm decoding, in a cushy friendly java environment.
Dec 09 04:00:39 <Chainfire> eh
Dec 09 04:00:41 <Chainfire> hmm
Dec 09 04:00:46 <Chainfire> sounds nasty
Dec 09 04:01:10 <Chainfire> but...
Dec 09 04:01:23 <Chainfire> im sure apps will include copy protecting using JNI
Dec 09 04:01:28 <Disconnect> the app can't trust -anything- including itself. i could modify dalvik. i could modify the platform calls. i could modify the app. i could do all or none of the above. (i can redirect online checks, or fake them entirely.)
Dec 09 04:01:32 <Disconnect> ld_preload
Dec 09 04:01:47 <Disconnect> remember. i own EVERYTHING. jni uses libraries to do what it wants.
Dec 09 04:02:10 <Disconnect> or it opens files in /proc. again, its not self contained, and it can't trust anything around it. hence, no security.
Dec 09 04:02:12 <Chainfire> well if you get down to it, you can fake everything on everything eventually
Dec 09 04:02:18 <Chainfire> aside from really good server-side checks
Dec 09 04:02:21 <pfft> for all of your deadbeats who did not answer me before about the game apks:
Dec 09 04:02:24 <pfft> http://www.androidfreeware.org/categories/games
Dec 09 04:02:32 <Disconnect> simply and easily, from a friendly java, C++ or C environment.
Dec 09 04:02:55 <pfft> right now I'm trying Lunar lander http://www.androidfreeware.org/getfile/Lunar_Lander.apk
Dec 09 04:03:35 <Chainfire> the question is, Disconnect... is the time you spend doing all that worth saving you the $10 for an app? :)
Dec 09 04:04:50 <Disconnect> "all that" is just a few minutes to write a framework that lets it pretend to be a different phone, and a simple gui for teaching it new apps when you install them. so its not $10 .. its potentially hundreds or more.
Dec 09 04:05:19 <Disconnect> is it worth it to me? maybe. depends on the apps. probably not, in the long run. but is it worth it to -someone-? absolutely.
Dec 09 04:05:34 <Chainfire> well yeah you are right there
Dec 09 04:06:02 <Chainfire> but license codes + server side checks?
Dec 09 04:06:20 <Disconnect> you hav ea code and you know what the server responds. so.. tada.
Dec 09 04:06:35 <swetland> at the end of the day, the client is in the hands of the enemy
Dec 09 04:06:48 <Chainfire> Disconnect> async keys? :)
Dec 09 04:07:18 <swetland> and no matter how elaborate your scheme is, if one guy pulls the binaries, etc (willing to crack the device open, desolder the flash, etc), there ya go
Dec 09 04:07:20 <Disconnect> "sorry, you can't use this app because you don't have a net connection"..? unlikely to be a useful app.
Dec 09 04:07:36 <Chainfire> myeah of course that is only relevant to networking-related apps
Dec 09 04:07:57 <Disconnect> so you have to have a cache/expiration for success. now you authorize it, then clone it, and tell the platform to always tell it its wednesday the 10th.
Dec 09 04:08:38 <Disconnect> seriously, when the core OS is easily modifiable (devphone) useful app security becomes so unweildy its effectively not possible
Dec 09 04:08:44 <Chainfire> well you have the source code for the app?
Dec 09 04:08:47 <pfft> 3 successes in a row with lunar lander
Dec 09 04:09:20 <pfft> sound is not working in my emulator tho :-(
Dec 09 04:09:21 <swetland> disconnect: even so, that's only an incremental advantage. people have been doing stuff like that on closed systems forever too
Dec 09 04:10:20 <Nafai> oooo....todo's in gmail
Dec 09 04:10:20 <Chainfire> :OO swetland> I've been told repeatedly you have an svn/git/whatever url for the android tree that builds for the G1
Dec 09 04:10:23 <pazlifer> can I flash the G1 bootloader with the one on the android opensource platform?
Dec 09 04:10:35 <Nafai> If that comes out of labs, I hope that means a todo app for android
Dec 09 04:11:06 <swetland> chain: grab http://frotz.net/misc/local_manifest.xml and drop it in your .repo
Dec 09 04:11:23 <Disconnect> SanMehat: tell pazlifer about devphones
Dec 09 04:11:32 <swetland> that should allow repo sync to pull in the msm7k hw junk and vendor/htc/dream
Dec 09 04:11:40 <Chainfire> swetland> yarrr thx!
Dec 09 04:11:54 <Disconnect> ..damn. crappy missing bot.
Dec 09 04:12:17 <swetland> you'll need to use the script in vendor/htc/dream to grab the proprietary stuff off of a working device (we can't redistribute the 3d library, htc ril, etc standalone)
Dec 09 04:12:27 <Disconnect> pazlifer: the engineering bootloader has already been flashed to retail g1. i'd have a link but they kicked all the bots tht did that sort of thing and i can't be arsed to look it up.
Dec 09 04:12:30 <Acidulous> where'd infobot go?
Dec 09 04:12:38 <pazlifer> I already have an g1. So I would like to flash my own images.
Dec 09 04:13:14 <unix_infidel> anyone tried setting the wallpaper to a 1x1px image and noticing a performance difference on home?
Dec 09 04:14:32 <Chainfire> swetland> proprietary stuff without source?
Dec 09 04:14:59 <swetland> yup. there's a handful of things that *we* don't have source to
Dec 09 04:15:25 <Chainfire> hmm
Dec 09 04:15:27 <pazlifer> Disconnect, I found one here: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=455860  But I would like to confirm this is a safe image. Do you know if this is just the standard bootloader built from the android pdk?
Dec 09 04:15:29 <unix_infidel> heh, i'm guessing flash will be one of those things.
Dec 09 04:15:38 <swetland> working to get keep minimizing it, but until you find a mobile chipset with a gpu with open source library, etc, you'll have to cope ^^
Dec 09 04:15:45 <Disconnect> pazlifer: there is no such animal
Dec 09 04:16:01 <Chainfire> btw im not sure if you know this or not, but is the G1 using accelerated 2D or just raw framebuffer like thingamajiggies?
Dec 09 04:16:22 <Chainfire> myeah actually its the GPU I'm after
Dec 09 04:16:25 <swetland> the g1 uses hw accel for blits/combines
Dec 09 04:16:31 <swetland> at the surfaceflinger level
Dec 09 04:16:34 <Acidulous> unix_infedel: I tried a 1 by 1 image, it doesn't work
Dec 09 04:16:38 <Chainfire> ok cool thats something
Dec 09 04:16:44 <Acidulous> crashes the camera app trying to save it as the background
Dec 09 04:16:47 <Disconnect> pazlifer: and i can't speak for random threads on xda-dev. http://www.gotontheinter.net/node/7 is the original announcement.
Dec 09 04:17:20 <Chainfire> well anyways... i can believe builders keep using MSM... :X
Dec 09 04:18:38 <Chainfire> yay repo is stuck... hurrah
Dec 09 04:18:45 <swetland> we do what we can. we've managed to avoid proprietary binary kernel drivers, we've managed to keep proprietary userspace bits to a minimum, and hope to reduce that further over time
Dec 09 04:18:55 <Disconnect> swetland: um. what do you call wlan?
Dec 09 04:18:57 <pazlifer> Thanks Disconnect, I'll check it out
Dec 09 04:19:42 <Disconnect> and given that about half of the default apps are closed source....
Dec 09 04:19:53 <Chainfire> well another q then, do you know if the wlan chipset from TI is able to switch to AP mode? Ive looked at the sources for a bit, but couldn't find anything
Dec 09 04:19:59 <swetland> disconnect: the full source for the wlan driver is in the repository
Dec 09 04:20:23 <swetland> it's frickin' enormous
Dec 09 04:20:36 <Captain_Dingo> speaking of that... is the Maps app open or closed?
Dec 09 04:20:39 <Disconnect> swetland: got a url? (or a hint)
Dec 09 04:20:54 <Disconnect> its not part of the kernel tree i've got
Dec 09 04:20:56 <swetland> http://android.git.kernel.org/?p=platform/system/wlan/ti.git;a=summary
Dec 09 04:21:06 <swetland> yes, because it's enormous
Dec 09 04:21:12 <bparker06> The method startAnimation(Animation) in the type View is not applicable for the arguments ()
Dec 09 04:21:12 <swetland> and it has code shared with userspace
Dec 09 04:21:18 <bparker06> any idea how to fix this?
Dec 09 04:21:34 <swetland> easier to maintain it as its own thing
Dec 09 04:22:17 <bparker06> I'm trying to get an indeterminate ProgressBar widget to start moving
Dec 09 04:23:00 <Disconnect> ah fun
Dec 09 04:23:23 <Chainfire> hmm not that much in this specific tree it seems
Dec 09 04:23:23 * Disconnect missed it before
Dec 09 04:24:20 <Chainfire> btw i noticed the camera is hella slow on the G1.. you know what the cause is for that? according to qualcomm msm docs the viewfinder should be 30fps always
Dec 09 04:24:59 <Chainfire> (one of those tech pdf's they removed last january... got a copy of it here somewhere though)
Dec 09 04:25:08 <Acidulous> its how it processes the lighting as far as i can tell, changes in lighting slow it down
Dec 09 04:25:38 <Disconnect> not just lighting. in general its because it is slow as hell.
Dec 09 04:25:45 <Disconnect> try taking a pic
Dec 09 04:26:06 <Chainfire> according to that docs it should have some Qsmthsmth technology to counter that... but hey its Qualcomm... HTC hasn't licensed half their stuff AFAIK and even then Qualcomm hasn't licensed half of the stuff they should be using :)
Dec 09 04:26:16 <Acidulous> lol, the slowness in taking a pic is because it has a real focus mechanism, you need to focus it, then take the picture
Dec 09 04:26:36 <Disconnect> ..no. halfpress and it focuses.
Dec 09 04:26:58 <Chainfire> i think my touch pro is faster with the viewfinder than the G1, though
Dec 09 04:27:16 <Disconnect> flll press and it sends you a telegram saying that its going to take a tintype so you should sit very still  for the next 12 minutes.
Dec 09 04:27:21 <Disconnect> full press that is
Dec 09 04:27:22 <Leeds> Captain_Dingo: AFAIK the Maps app is closed
Dec 09 04:27:25 <Chainfire> though admittedly i havent played with the G1 for more than 10 minutes.
Dec 09 04:27:43 <Acidulous> lol, if you half press til it focuses, then full press, it isn't too bad
Dec 09 04:27:55 <Acidulous> but straight full press takes forever
Dec 09 04:27:56 <Captain_Dingo> Leeds: Sucks.  There's a feature from the windows mobile version that I'd love to have in this one
Dec 09 04:28:07 <Leeds> what feature?
Dec 09 04:28:27 <Chainfire> its a google app.. i'd imagine it'll come to the google phone sooner or later :)
Dec 09 04:29:00 <unix_infidel> is there anyway to link the browser button to the "current windows" activity?
Dec 09 04:29:22 <unix_infidel> i cant seem to find what that activity is called in the docs.
Dec 09 04:29:38 <Chainfire> btw completely unrelated... would anyone here know the command in linux to list the exports from an ELF .so? :) (#linux folk wont answer me ;))
Dec 09 04:29:54 <snadge> ok, so i have port 1080 forwarded to my g1, which is running tetherbot with socks proxy started
Dec 09 04:30:00 <Captain_Dingo> Leeds: You could click (select) anywhere on the map, and a menu would pop up that would let you change the routing, so you could change the start point or the end point
Dec 09 04:30:27 <Leeds> Chainfire: nm?
Dec 09 04:30:42 <Leeds> Captain_Dingo: not too bad... dunno :-)
Dec 09 04:31:03 <snadge> i have verified that i can connect to port 1080 on localhost on my desktop, but im getting address not found dns errors from firefox. how do i get working dns through adb port?
Dec 09 04:31:26 <Chainfire> Leeds> all of those I can import with symXXX functions?
Dec 09 04:31:50 <snadge> i have configured socks proxy in firefox network settings
Dec 09 04:31:57 <Leeds> Chainfire: I haven't messed with elf stuff for years...
Dec 09 04:32:16 <Acidulous> snadge: I wasn't able to get firefox working on my machine, had to use another browser
Dec 09 04:32:40 <Acidulous> I didn't spend much time on it though
Dec 09 04:33:04 <snadge> another browser like?
Dec 09 04:33:39 <Acidulous> I was doing it on my mac, i set up the system proxy, and used safari
Dec 09 04:33:51 <Acidulous> what OS are you doing it in?
Dec 09 04:34:25 <snadge> ubuntu 8.10
Dec 09 04:34:54 <snadge> it works if i use ip address instead of dns name
Dec 09 04:35:02 <Chainfire> thx Leeds... gets moer sane when i turn off debug building... but its not exporting what I want though... ill talk with the compiler guys tomorrow :))
Dec 09 04:35:21 <swetland> chainfire: readelf should be able to tell you all kinds of fun things
Dec 09 04:36:17 <snadge> so the socks proxy is working, it appears firefox is too stupid to use socks for dns lookups
Dec 09 04:36:19 * Chainfire mutters something about linux fighting you every step of the way
Dec 09 04:36:33 <Chainfire> snadge> about:config
Dec 09 04:36:38 <Acidulous> try this: in firefox, type about:config in the address bar, accept the terms and conitions, it'll bring up a list of settings. type dns, and change the field network.proxy.socks_remote_dns to true
Dec 09 04:37:22 <Chainfire> note that that would be completely unneccessary if only Android on the G1 allowed listening on the DNS port without root :P
Dec 09 04:37:45 <Chainfire> any progress on that? some weeks ago someone said <1024 ports without root was under discussion
Dec 09 04:38:38 * charlie- wonders why the android device is so locked down
Dec 09 04:38:41 <snadge> Chainfire: VERY nice, that obscure socks tns config entry fixes the problem
Dec 09 04:38:53 <charlie-> I thought it was supposed to be more of an open handset :P
Dec 09 04:38:56 <Chainfire> thank Acidulous :)
Dec 09 04:39:08 <Acidulous> np
Dec 09 04:39:24 <swetland> android is an open handset platform.  g1 is a handset using that platform.
Dec 09 04:39:37 <Chainfire> frankly its just friggin rediculous that option isnt set by default in firefox
Dec 09 04:39:38 <snadge> i wonder how to force ubuntu to use socks for everything
Dec 09 04:39:48 <charlie-> swetland, ah..
Dec 09 04:39:54 <swetland> g1 is quite open from an app development/deployment standpoint, compared to a number of other more restrictive/walledgarden systems out there
Dec 09 04:39:57 <pfft> swetland: well said
Dec 09 04:40:00 <Chainfire> then again, ive had some run-ins with firefox devs, and it wouldnt be the first time i thought that :P
Dec 09 04:40:05 <snadge> so i can at least ssh via socks
Dec 09 04:40:59 <Chainfire> snadge> will im no expert in linux coding by any measure, but one would think it would not actually be too hard to fake an interface that actually talks via socks instead of a real network
Dec 09 04:41:14 <swetland> regarding closed-down-ness of g1, there are two general factors:  1. desire to limit damage to uses or other apps from (untrusted but unrestricted) third party apps   2. normal carrier desire to reduce customer care and return costs by preventing user/apps from rendering the system nonfunctional
Dec 09 04:41:19 <Chainfire> ive written some socks servers, i know how it works :)
Dec 09 04:41:56 <charlie-> swetland, yeah, that does make sense. will the dev phone be more open though?
Dec 09 04:42:04 <swetland> and in many cases, time constraints.  there are a number of APIs that we just didn't have time to get wrapped up in 1.0 (full bluetooth apis, better sound recording, etc) that we're still working on and will go into later releases
Dec 09 04:42:19 <swetland> the dev phone has an engineering bootloader that lets you flash whatever kernel/system/etc you like
Dec 09 04:42:45 <swetland> source code to the platform is available. change it however you like. install stock debian. port openmoko. go nuts. have fun ^^
Dec 09 04:43:16 <Chainfire> itd be cool of somebody would actually build an android running android :/
Dec 09 04:43:51 <Chainfire> btw i dont know if any of you guys is involved with this, but I request the use of a DroidXXXX name for an app months ago and still havent heard crap back
Dec 09 04:43:55 <swetland> the dev phone exists to provide a good platform to do android system/os development on and to enable app developers who do not want or cannot obtain tmobile service
Dec 09 04:44:03 <Chainfire> isnt that supposed to take 2 weeks, or is there a known delay right now?
Dec 09 04:44:16 <swetland> no clue. I didn't even know such a process existed
Dec 09 04:44:28 <pfft> an android vm running under android :-/
Dec 09 04:45:05 <Chainfire> theres some google page somewhere where you can request use of google trademarked stuff... apparently you have to request using a DroidXXXX name.
Dec 09 04:45:23 <swetland> yeah, that's probably devadvocates and/or bizdev territory
Dec 09 04:46:32 <charlie-> swetland, I'm not sure if I've asked you this before yet, but you seem to be very very knowledgable about android/G1 stuff, but do you know if the Dev Phone will be compatible with AT&T and specifically my EDGE plan?
Dec 09 04:47:09 <Chainfire> myeah ill ping them again tomorrow... unless you got a number I can call to shout at people, that is.
Dec 09 04:47:40 <Chainfire> i like shouting at lawyers/business/whatever folk :P
Dec 09 04:47:57 <swetland> the dev phone will work on ATT GSM/EDGE
Dec 09 04:48:08 <swetland> it will not get 3G/UMTS on ATT
Dec 09 04:48:28 <swetland> I use a cingular/att SIM in my device
Dec 09 04:49:07 <swetland> I keep thinking about going to tmo, but I hate dealing with carriers and EDGE is good enough for me
Dec 09 04:49:16 <Chainfire> heh
Dec 09 04:49:31 * ttuttle <3 his "AT&T G1" ;)
Dec 09 04:49:35 <unix_infidel> swetland: 3G is addictive.
Dec 09 04:49:41 <unix_infidel> ;-)
Dec 09 04:49:42 <Chainfire> I was pleasantly surprised I needed neither an unlock code and got 3.6mbit here in Holland on the G1 :)
Dec 09 04:49:43 <ttuttle> swetland: hey, how's it going?
Dec 09 04:49:50 <swetland> it goes
Dec 09 04:49:55 <ttuttle> SanMehat: Hey, you around?
Dec 09 04:49:58 <ttuttle> swetland: cool
Dec 09 04:50:32 <ttuttle> swetland: Another day in the code mines?
Dec 09 04:50:35 <pfft> swetland: can you think of anything fairly simple for a community to do that would help the platform the most at this point?
Dec 09 04:50:49 <Chainfire> though seriously, that Google account login really has to go. i had to friggin sign up with gmail to activate my phone :X
Dec 09 04:50:50 <pfft> s/a community/the community/
Dec 09 04:50:59 <ttuttle> Chainfire: :(
Dec 09 04:51:17 <ttuttle> Chainfire: They slave away to make a wonderful phone platform and you complain about having to register with them? :P
Dec 09 04:51:19 <swetland> write apps! buy phones! submit patches!
Dec 09 04:51:35 <swetland> we need to put up a projects page
Dec 09 04:51:41 * ttuttle would buy an ADP1, but has a functionally equivalent G1.
Dec 09 04:51:45 <ttuttle> swetland: Ooh, offer bounties!
Dec 09 04:52:04 <pfft> swetland: it seems like there are projects pages everywhere ... what do you mean exactly?
Dec 09 04:52:06 <swetland> pointing out places where people can find out about places where they can contribute stuff to help
Dec 09 04:52:11 <Chainfire> ttuttle> its not that I needed a google account.. i got several... put after many tries to find the actual password (:P) it then started to complain that my account didnt have gmail... and etc etc... it took me like 15 minutes to get it activated. thats just BS, I dont WANT gmail. :)
Dec 09 04:52:20 <bgupta> setland: Started work on an FAQ last night... Are there any questions that you are tired of answering that should be listed? http://android-dls.com/wiki/index.php?title=Android_FAQ
Dec 09 04:52:30 <ttuttle> Chainfire: uh, gmail is very nearly the most important google feature on the G1.
Dec 09 04:52:33 <bgupta> s/setland/swetland/
Dec 09 04:52:38 <pfft> swetland: ahh ... i see
Dec 09 04:52:47 <Chainfire> ttuttle> for you... :)
Dec 09 04:52:50 <swetland> I mean for the platform -- here are X, Y, Z that would be nice to have.  maybe some simple stuff (like cleanup, testcases, etc), and some more complex stuff that would be cool but is not on our radar yet
Dec 09 04:53:00 <ttuttle> Chainfire: no, i mean, it's the "T-Mobile G1 with Google".
Dec 09 04:53:02 <unix_infidel> ttuttle: and you cant bind it to another account after initial setup?
Dec 09 04:53:13 <ttuttle> unix_infidel: I thought you could use a non-gmai
Dec 09 04:53:18 <ttuttle> *non-Gmail account?
Dec 09 04:53:34 <Chainfire> ttuttle> for you... :) for me it's just a phone with a potential to develop some apps for.
Dec 09 04:53:41 <ttuttle> Chainfire: Meh.
Dec 09 04:53:52 <unix_infidel> ttuttle: you also got it for free ;-)
Dec 09 04:53:54 <ttuttle> Chainfire: I mean, I've only recently started using Gmail.
Dec 09 04:53:56 <ttuttle> unix_infidel: =D
Dec 09 04:53:58 <ttuttle> unix_infidel: Indeed.
Dec 09 04:54:02 <pfft> swetland: how can the community contribute to cleanup? for example?
Dec 09 04:54:09 <swetland> submit patches
Dec 09 04:54:24 <swetland> lot of people submit linux kernel patches that just fix little things
Dec 09 04:54:27 <swetland> for example
Dec 09 04:54:28 <ttuttle> swetland: Are you guys looking for Javadoc help?  I've found a lot of typos and underdocumented bits.
Dec 09 04:54:34 <swetland> improves the overall quality of the code base
Dec 09 04:54:41 <unix_infidel> ttuttle: nope, looks like you're stuck with the initial account with the GMail app.
Dec 09 04:54:43 <ttuttle> swetland: And it's something most people don't like to do.
Dec 09 04:54:45 <swetland> ttuttle: patches fixing docs would be most welcome, I'm sure
Dec 09 04:54:53 <ttuttle> swetland: Cool.
Dec 09 04:55:00 <Chainfire> ttuttle> well if you can use it with a non-gmail google accoutn i didnt figure out how... IIRC it required an @gmail.com or smth address
Dec 09 04:55:23 <swetland> just use the full email address
Dec 09 04:55:52 <Acidulous> the gmail app requires a gmail account, the email app can use any imap/pop email account
Dec 09 04:55:59 <swetland> if it's a google apps for domains (or whatever that's called these days) setup, you need to have gtalk, calendar, etc enabled on the domain
Dec 09 04:56:07 <Chainfire> this is about the activation process
Dec 09 04:56:17 <solca> swetland: I found a bug, when porting to the N810 the new open source wifi driver returns bogus data that segfaults android, what I do now?
Dec 09 04:56:32 <Chainfire> if you have a non-gmail account in that setup phase it tells you so and asks you to create one, with no way to skip, IIRC
Dec 09 04:56:44 <swetland> solca: some combination of "fix the driver" or "fix android" ^^
Dec 09 04:57:16 <solca> swetland: I notify the upstream driver, but I think this should be fixed in Android too
Dec 09 04:57:37 <solca> an I think is fairly easy to fix
Dec 09 04:57:41 <swetland> making the system robust against bad results is generally a good idea
Dec 09 04:57:46 <snadge> how do i get tsocks to work now? <g>
Dec 09 04:57:48 <swetland> submit a patch
Dec 09 04:57:52 <swetland> or file a bug
Dec 09 04:58:01 <solca> it fails when the signal level doesnt start with a -
Dec 09 04:58:07 <swetland> but submitting a patch is usually the faster path to getting something fixed
Dec 09 04:58:21 <snadge> firefox works via tetherbot, now i need ssh ;)
Dec 09 04:58:30 <swetland> yeah that sounds like something that should be fixed on our side
Dec 09 04:58:41 <solca> swetland: ok, will try to make one and submit it so Android get hardened against driver bugs
Dec 09 04:58:43 <swetland> at the bare minimum it'd be better to just ignore something like that than failing
Dec 09 04:58:54 <swetland> thanks!
Dec 09 04:59:18 <pfft> solca:  how are your porting android?  What steps are you taking ... generally speaking?
Dec 09 04:59:52 <solca> pfft: 1. running an android kernel on bare metal. 2. create a vendor profile
Dec 09 04:59:54 <swetland> I really need to dust off my n810 and try this stuff out
Dec 09 05:00:01 <swetland> not enough hours in the day to keep track of it all
Dec 09 05:00:17 <solca> pfft: you can check my port here: http://guug.org/nit/nitdroid/
Dec 09 05:00:26 <pfft> solca: Thanks!
Dec 09 05:00:46 <solca> pfft: is a work in progress, but usable
Dec 09 05:01:14 <solca> swetland: do you think Google have a problem with me naming my port different than "Android"
Dec 09 05:01:17 <solca> ?
Dec 09 05:01:26 <bparker06> it seems the repository is down
Dec 09 05:01:28 <swetland> can't see why that'd be a problem
Dec 09 05:01:36 <solca> cool!
Dec 09 05:01:51 <swetland> android is a trademark (I believe), using your own name is probably less of an issue
Dec 09 05:01:56 <bparker06> https://dl-ssl.google.com/android/eclipse/
Dec 09 05:01:57 <bparker06> 404
Dec 09 05:02:10 <swetland> patches are welcome though.  it'd be nice to have the main tree be able to build for n8x0 "out of the box"
Dec 09 05:02:20 <solca> swetland: I think so, but better to have different opinions :P
Dec 09 05:03:23 <swetland> also, do you have installation instructions?
Dec 09 05:03:30 <muthu_> bparker06: try http
Dec 09 05:04:03 <solca> swetland: not really, just make an ext3fs partition on mmc internal card
Dec 09 05:04:20 <solca> swetland: it must be the third partition (mmcblk0p3)
Dec 09 05:04:25 <swetland> I could do that on my desktop machine, yes?
Dec 09 05:04:35 <solca> yep, from maemo
Dec 09 05:04:37 <swetland> (I don't have the stock nokia software on the device any longer)
Dec 09 05:04:45 <solca> hmm
Dec 09 05:05:25 <solca> swetland: what do you have in your nit that is not maemo?
Dec 09 05:05:27 * sparkle yawns
Dec 09 05:05:36 <sparkle> solca, i'd be cautious about using an ext3 journal on flash
Dec 09 05:05:45 <solca> sparkle: why?
Dec 09 05:05:51 <sparkle> it doesn't buy you anything and you hammer the journal space
Dec 09 05:06:09 <pfft> solca: so just use ext2?
Dec 09 05:06:14 <rwhitby> just turn noatime on, and it'll outlast the device it's mounted on.
Dec 09 05:06:15 <swetland> solca: android port from last christmas ^^
Dec 09 05:06:49 <solca> swetland: wow, maybe you be the first one in the world with an android port to n810, great!
Dec 09 05:06:54 <swetland> started hacking on it back then, but got fed up with trying to get the binary only wifi driver working and tabled the project, hoping a new driver would turn up
Dec 09 05:07:03 <sparkle> though i shouldn't talk, i sometimes run with paging space on the sdcard :p
Dec 09 05:07:09 <swetland> solca: I think some external folks (porting from the sdk) probably had me beat
Dec 09 05:07:09 <solca> sparkle and pfft: mmc is like sd right?
Dec 09 05:07:19 <sparkle> mmc encompasses sd
Dec 09 05:07:20 <sparkle> more or less
Dec 09 05:07:31 <geist> also means it does wear levelling
Dec 09 05:07:32 <sparkle> sd is licensing and a feature set
Dec 09 05:07:37 <pfft> ^^
Dec 09 05:07:42 <geist> i have no issue running ext3 on mmc
Dec 09 05:08:05 <sparkle> they have spare sectors
Dec 09 05:08:22 <rwhitby> tens of thousands of nslu2 custom firmware users use ext3 on usb flash sticks for the last four years :-)
Dec 09 05:08:23 <geist> ext3 + noatime should be fine
Dec 09 05:08:38 <sparkle> but they don't guarantee leveling
Dec 09 05:08:43 <solca> sparkle: so if mmc does wear levelling why is a problem to run in on ext3?
Dec 09 05:08:44 <geist> yeah they do
Dec 09 05:08:49 <rwhitby> noatime, and a ramfs for /var
Dec 09 05:09:01 * sparkle nods
Dec 09 05:09:07 <sparkle> ext3 itself is fine
Dec 09 05:09:10 <sparkle> i just wouldn't run a journal
Dec 09 05:09:10 <geist> well, it stands to reason that particular vendors may do a worse job than others
Dec 09 05:09:26 <solca> geist: agree: ext3 + noatime is ok IMHO
Dec 09 05:09:47 <geist> but it'd still be far better than FAT on mmc
Dec 09 05:09:52 <geist> and of course 99.9% of them do that
Dec 09 05:09:53 <pfft> he he
Dec 09 05:10:02 <bparker06> muthu_: no go on the http
Dec 09 05:10:09 <geist> burn a hole in it, if it dodn't do wear levelling, which they do
Dec 09 05:10:26 <solca> swetland: maybe you can check my port someday
Dec 09 05:11:01 <swetland> solca: I plan on giving it a try when I get some time
Dec 09 05:11:13 <bgupta> AM I missing any devices that Android has been ported to in this FAQ question?: http://android-dls.com/wiki/index.php?title=Android_FAQ#Q:_What_devices_has_Android_been_ported_to.3F
Dec 09 05:11:36 <swetland> gotta scare up the n800/n810 hardware and flash stuff
Dec 09 05:11:41 <muthu_> bparker06: weird, probably server down
Dec 09 05:12:35 <swetland> solca: are the random crashes you're seeing userspace, kernel, or both?
Dec 09 05:13:08 <AstainHellbring> you missing htc titan
Dec 09 05:13:09 <solca> swetland: I fix the random crash by disabling page flipping in the kernel (and obviously in userspace too)
Dec 09 05:13:27 <solca> swetland: but now I get ugly flickering :)
Dec 09 05:13:39 <maqr> has anyone else noticed that https://dl-ssl.google.com/android/eclipse/ is 404?
Dec 09 05:13:39 <bgupta> 404 confirmed
Dec 09 05:13:39 <maqr> so... wtf google, how am i supposed to fix that :/
Dec 09 05:13:59 <swetland> I see. does the ready-to-install image include this fix and the wifi driver?
Dec 09 05:14:07 <pfft> swetland: solca's apparently got some good instincts with this stuff :-)
Dec 09 05:14:41 <solca> swetland: yes it includes that fix and wifi, but android crashes with the signal level bug I told you
Dec 09 05:14:53 <solca> swetland: and I have not figured out how to fix it,
Dec 09 05:14:58 * swetland nods
Dec 09 05:15:00 <solca> I'm not good at java
Dec 09 05:15:19 * ttuttle assumes doing an OTA update on <15% battery is asking for trouble, right?
Dec 09 05:15:23 <maqr> i guess i'll just install ADT-0.8.0 as the zip archive... does anyone know if that's the latest version? that's what's on google's site
Dec 09 05:15:25 <pfft> solca: which parts of the java would you want looked at?
Dec 09 05:15:29 <bgupta> AstainHellbring: thanks
Dec 09 05:15:36 <muthu_> maqr: yes, that's the latest
Dec 09 05:15:39 <maqr> ok
Dec 09 05:16:10 <pfft> swetland: the wifi stuff is not java is it?
Dec 09 05:16:15 <AstainHellbring> bgupta also the porting process is going on for the HTC Diamond and Touch Pro
Dec 09 05:16:36 <solca> pfft: base/location/java/com/android/internal/location/LocationCollector.java
Dec 09 05:16:48 <solca> updateWifiScanResults
Dec 09 05:16:49 <swetland> pfft: the high level bits are
Dec 09 05:17:03 <Acidulous> Android
Dec 09 05:17:13 <pfft> swetland and solca: i see
Dec 09 05:17:14 <swetland> wifi is in the driver, the wpa_supplicant, and some java level stuff to glue it all together with the framework
Dec 09 05:17:16 <Acidulous> lol.. android + touch pro = AWESOME
Dec 09 05:17:42 <solca> swetland: wpa supplicant reports a positive number in the signal level
Dec 09 05:17:47 <solca> and that is the main problem
Dec 09 05:17:55 <bgupta> AstainHellbring: Is this the best link for ANdroidTitan http://lists.arm.linux.org.uk/lurker/message/20071108.075502.4ff93ee7.html?
Dec 09 05:18:35 <solca> pfft: and I trace back to that function in that file
Dec 09 05:18:48 <swetland> solca: I'd start a discussion on the android-porting list.  I personally don't deal with the wifi framework stuff, but a numbre of people read the list and there may be some good suggestions
Dec 09 05:19:05 <solca> swetland: excellent!
Dec 09 05:19:30 <sparkle> mm
Dec 09 05:19:31 <solca> swetland: and btw do you know about arm
Dec 09 05:19:33 <solca> ?
Dec 09 05:19:46 <Nafai> Where's the best forum to give feature suggestions for the base Android applications, particularly, the google ones?
Dec 09 05:20:07 <solca> because in my port I disable thumb code and enable VFP for everything
Dec 09 05:20:19 <solca> hoping gaining massive speed
Dec 09 05:20:20 <AstainHellbring> titan:  http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fmagister.ipsys.net%2Fprojects%2Fandroid-for-titan%2F&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&sl=auto&tl=en
Dec 09 05:20:32 <solca> but would like to know if it is correct this approach...
Dec 09 05:20:33 <swetland> you'll probably get better performance leaving thumb enabled
Dec 09 05:20:44 <bgupta> Android ports list updated: http://android-dls.com/wiki/index.php?title=Android_FAQ#Q:_What_devices_has_Android_been_ported_to.3F
Dec 09 05:20:48 <charlie-> how well does android run on the nokia n810
Dec 09 05:20:56 <bgupta> Thanks AstainHellbring
Dec 09 05:20:57 <swetland> generally the better code density you get with thumb is a big win
Dec 09 05:21:05 <solca> charlie-: pretty fast
Dec 09 05:21:10 <swetland> and not much of the system uses fp
Dec 09 05:21:12 <AstainHellbring> welcome bgupta
Dec 09 05:21:20 <swetland> omap2 is no slouch
Dec 09 05:21:22 <charlie-> solca, does it look and run as well (or close to) how it does on the G1?
Dec 09 05:21:37 <swetland> better bus bandwidth than the msm7201a
Dec 09 05:22:05 * charlie- is kind of afraid to get a dev phone 1.. I'm not sure if I'd like Android, I've never tried it :P
Dec 09 05:22:07 <solca> swetland: so better leave it with the defaults (thumb no softpoint) ?
Dec 09 05:22:13 <swetland> solca: for now, yes
Dec 09 05:22:19 <pfft> solca: are you getting any log messages from that updateWifiScanResults function?
Dec 09 05:22:37 <swetland> we're working on real vfp support (will need vm changes, etc) to take advantage of vfp where it'll help
Dec 09 05:22:55 <swetland> also, since we've never really built for vfp enabled targets, turning on hard fp may expose exciting new bugs ^^
Dec 09 05:23:24 <solca> charlie-: it looks good but the G1 sports egl hardware acceleration, nothing can beat that
Dec 09 05:23:34 <swetland> in particular, I believe with hard fp the calling conventions are different than soft fp and any java<->native calls with fp args could be messed up
Dec 09 05:23:42 <solca> swetland: ok, good advice
Dec 09 05:23:44 <eugene> i understand that make goldfish_defconfig builds the kernel for the emulator. how about G1?
Dec 09 05:23:44 <swetland> solca: we don't use egl for basic operation
Dec 09 05:23:54 <swetland> eugene: make msm_defconfig
Dec 09 05:24:08 <swetland> but you'll want the kernel/msm.git repository and the android-msm-htc-2.6.25 branch
Dec 09 05:24:13 <solca> swetland: I see android trying to open a libhgl.so
Dec 09 05:24:23 <solca> and I presume is EGL accelerated
Dec 09 05:24:24 <eugene> swetland: ok
Dec 09 05:24:25 <swetland> solca: yup. that's the egl library on g1
Dec 09 05:24:49 <swetland> it's only used by apps using opengl at the moment (since the current version doesn't do multiple context support)
Dec 09 05:25:23 <solca> swetland: ahh, so the normal gui doesnt use it
Dec 09 05:25:40 <swetland> we do use the MDP (2d lcd/blit/dma engine) on the G1 to speed up some surface flinger operations
Dec 09 05:25:44 <swetland> solca: correct
Dec 09 05:26:25 <swetland> in general the n810 is probably going to be faster than the g1 for sw rasterization (better bus performance), but that's offset by having about 2.5x the pixels to move around for full screen operations
Dec 09 05:26:45 <solca> pfft: I will take a look again as I close the logcat window :(
Dec 09 05:27:12 <solca> swetland: the n810 with page flipping feels very fast
Dec 09 05:27:34 <swetland> when I did my quick and dirty port a year ago I was impressed with the speed
Dec 09 05:27:43 <solca> swetland: without page flipping I feels is faster but annonying
Dec 09 05:28:10 <charlie-> would the n810 support stuff like touchscreen, wifi, etc? and is it easy to install?
Dec 09 05:28:16 <solca> swetland: but with page flipping enabled the lcd controller (epson blizzard) dies
Dec 09 05:28:16 * charlie- is trying to figure out the best device to get
Dec 09 05:28:35 <swetland>  /dev/mmcblk0p3 is mounted as /system in your port?
Dec 09 05:28:45 <solca> charlie-: the n810 doesnt have accelerometers and is not a phone so YMMV
Dec 09 05:28:59 <solca> swetland: nope, as rootfs
Dec 09 05:29:15 <swetland> interesting
Dec 09 05:29:54 <solca> swetland: yea, because I don't want to disrupt the maemo part
Dec 09 05:30:14 <solca> as there is all the proprietary stuff I kickstart with nitboot
Dec 09 05:30:20 <solca> http://guug.org/nit/nitboot/
Dec 09 05:30:25 <charlie-> I've only seen images of the android demo that one of the google execs used in a youtube video, none of the later versions
Dec 09 05:30:43 <swetland> so your stuff won't work if I don't have the nokia build on the device?
Dec 09 05:31:09 <solca> nope, as all the firmware files are in the initfs partition
Dec 09 05:31:25 <swetland> gotcha.
Dec 09 05:31:31 <solca> well, it can start but you have to disable via the flasher all hw watchdogs
Dec 09 05:31:50 <swetland> is there a particular version of the official software I should install?
Dec 09 05:31:59 <solca> and wifi and bt definitely will not work without the firmware files at /usr/lib/hotplug/firmware
Dec 09 05:32:09 <solca> swetland: latest
Dec 09 05:32:26 <snadge> does anyone else here use tsocks on linux to connect via g1 using tetherbot?
Dec 09 05:32:31 <swetland> okay.  hopefully I'll find some time to try this out this week
Dec 09 05:32:52 <solca> swetland: latest or any diable based firmware
Dec 09 05:32:52 <snadge> my ssh session keeps closing unexpectedly.. wondering if this is normal.. web browsing with firefox seems to be fine however
Dec 09 05:32:53 <swetland> http://guug.org/nit/nitdroid/nitdroid_userspace.patch.bz2 is 404 it seems
Dec 09 05:33:15 <pfft> solca: good job, I hope your port works out well
Dec 09 05:33:29 <solca> swetland: yea I pull it as I want to fix somethings first
Dec 09 05:33:38 <solca> including the wifi stuff
Dec 09 05:33:41 * swetland nods
Dec 09 05:33:42 <solca> pfft: thx!
Dec 09 05:33:51 <swetland> I'll check back later
Dec 09 05:34:11 <solca> swetland: ok, I gotto go bed now
Dec 09 05:34:15 <pfft> solca: are you getting a stacktrace on that updateWifi... function call?
Dec 09 05:34:24 <pfft> solca: l8r solcs
Dec 09 05:34:28 <pfft> solca
Dec 09 05:34:43 <solca> pfft: yes I'm getting a backtrace
Dec 09 05:34:54 <solca> pfft: if you take a look I can hold my go to bed :)
Dec 09 05:37:42 <pfft> solca: I'll look ... sure
Dec 09 05:38:07 <pfft> here maybe it'd be better if you emailed it to me so you could go to bed ...
Dec 09 05:38:23 <charlie-> does anyone here live in the twin cities and know of a t-mobile store that has real androids to play with?
Dec 09 05:39:25 <solca> pfft: http://pastebin.com/m45bd01f2
Dec 09 05:40:15 <pfft> solca: got it ...
Dec 09 05:40:40 <solca> I inserted the "NetworkStateBroadcastReceiver: WiFi debug point 1"
Dec 09 05:40:48 <pfft> solca: I'll email you if i can figure anything out ... have a good night
Dec 09 05:41:16 <solca> pfft: thx!! good night
Dec 09 05:42:27 <pfft> solca: are you still there?
Dec 09 05:42:32 <solca> yep
Dec 09 05:42:41 <pfft> solca: wow ... it looks easier than i thought
Dec 09 05:42:51 <solca> pfft: really??
Dec 09 05:42:55 <solca> pfft: man you are fast!!
Dec 09 05:43:00 <pfft> solca: it says key length > 31
Dec 09 05:43:22 <pfft> so it appears that the lookup in System properties is failing for that reason
Dec 09 05:43:38 <jsharkey> re: earlier question about lag when taking pictures, it might be due to the jpg encode that isnt done during the preview
Dec 09 05:43:55 <pfft> it looks like the key = ro.com.google.enable_google_location_features
Dec 09 05:44:01 <pfft> which is 41 characters
Dec 09 05:44:04 <solca> pfft: where to?
Dec 09 05:44:35 <snadge> dammit.. my socks connections via my g1 drop out quite regularly
Dec 09 05:44:40 <solca> in the same file and function I told you before?
Dec 09 05:44:55 <pfft> solca: yes, so far
Dec 09 05:45:02 <snadge> testing it with ssh client, and pidgin... they both work, just the connection resets fairly frequently :/
Dec 09 05:45:06 <Acidulous> snadge: I don't have any problems with it, are you on 3g/edge, whats the signal strength?
Dec 09 05:45:16 <pfft> solca: I'm on line 360
Dec 09 05:45:31 <bgupta> Hey guys.. took a stab at reorganizing much of the unsorted FAQ questions. Feedback is greatly appreciated.: http://android-dls.com/wiki/index.php?title=Android_FAQ
Dec 09 05:45:31 <snadge> Acidulous: im using a wifi connection at the office.. so 802.11, wep
Dec 09 05:45:40 <solca> got it
Dec 09 05:45:48 <Acidulous> ah, I wasn't using wifi, don't know how it performs with that
Dec 09 05:45:52 <snadge> and im tethered to my desktop at work, via adb cable.. and tetherbot
Dec 09 05:46:01 <solca> pfft: function isCollectionEnabled ?
Dec 09 05:46:05 <pfft> solca: I'm grepping the git repo now to see if i can find the key
Dec 09 05:46:15 <pfft> solca: yes
Dec 09 05:46:45 <snadge> someone else complained of frequent connection resets the other day.. it appears to work fine with firefox
Dec 09 05:46:52 <solca> pfft: I though it was dying because the wifi signal level was positive
Dec 09 05:46:53 <pfft> solca: i'm not too familiar with how the System properties works, but it should not be too hard
Dec 09 05:48:10 <solca> pfft: do you found that by followint the backtrace?
Dec 09 05:48:19 <pfft> solca: yes
Dec 09 05:49:02 <pfft> solca: see where it says "Caused by: java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: key.length > 31"
Dec 09 05:49:22 <mmitchel> bgupta: have you thought about using the wiki markup == and == to give section the section titles a [edit] link next to them?
Dec 09 05:49:24 <solca> pfft: damn, I was reading the backtrace from top to bottom and it didn't make sense so I start adding debuggin logs
Dec 09 05:49:38 <pfft> well it looks like the key length was 41 characters ... which is greater than
Dec 09 05:49:39 <solca> pfft: yea I see it now :P
Dec 09 05:49:52 <pfft> 31
Dec 09 05:50:05 <pfft> not sure why android has the magic number 31 in it
Dec 09 05:50:13 <solca> pfft: and what is the key?
Dec 09 05:50:26 <solca> pfft: I can do a getprop from the shell
Dec 09 05:50:29 <bgupta> mmitchel: It has that. It's just you need to register to edit... (Spammers)
Dec 09 05:50:30 <pfft> solca: guess i could also grep for the number 31 in the code base :-)
Dec 09 05:50:47 <pfft> solca: that should stand out like a sore thumb ... i hate magic numbers
Dec 09 05:50:57 <solca> pfft: hehe
Dec 09 05:51:02 <mmitchel> bgupta: ok, i am unwashed and unregistered then
Dec 09 05:51:13 <pfft> solca: getprop? really? cool how can you do that?
Dec 09 05:51:39 <pfft> using bean shell or something?
Dec 09 05:51:45 <pfft> bsh?
Dec 09 05:51:46 <DarkriftX> mmitchel: i had to disable guest edits because everyday the wiki was erased and replaced with 20 pages of spam links (some of them 500 links per page)
Dec 09 05:52:10 <solca> pfft: getprop is a command in the android filesystem
Dec 09 05:52:13 <mmitchel> DarkriftX: now you know why i snarfed copies of the fun pages on my local disk lol
Dec 09 05:52:14 <DarkriftX> so you have to register now, which takes about 2 minutes (yes i know its annoying, but it had to be done)
Dec 09 05:52:21 <solca> you give it a key and it returns its value
Dec 09 05:52:40 <pfft> solca: found it in the following file:
Dec 09 05:52:43 <pfft> system/core/rootdir/etc/init.goldfish.rc
Dec 09 05:53:20 <pfft> so ... one fix would be to make the key less than 32 characters, i guess
Dec 09 05:53:49 <solca> pfft: the key is ro.com.google.enable_google_location_features ?
Dec 09 05:53:58 <pfft> grep -n -r -i enable_google_location_features system/core/rootdir/etc/init.goldfish.rc
Dec 09 05:53:58 <pfft> 23:    setprop ro.com.google.enable_google_location_features 1
Dec 09 05:54:08 <pfft> solca: yes that's what it looks like
Dec 09 05:54:41 <snadge> im not sure if i should be chasing bugs in ubuntu/gnome's socks client implementation.. or the tetherbot
Dec 09 05:54:44 <bgupta> DarkriftX: Is the wiki backed up somewhere?
Dec 09 05:55:04 <solca> pfft: weird because that file is never parsed in my build
Dec 09 05:55:07 <pfft> solca: another solution would be to find the magic number 31 in the android code and increase it to 42 :-)
Dec 09 05:55:07 <bgupta> Need to know if I need to be backing up the docs I am working on..
Dec 09 05:55:23 <pfft> solca: ok ... lemme see
Dec 09 05:55:23 <DarkriftX> not really bgupta but it keeps its own little backups
Dec 09 05:55:30 <DarkriftX> i can make sql backups though
Dec 09 05:55:41 <snadge> im using tsocks to get ssh client to work.. and gnome's "proxy" settings to get pidgin to use socks
Dec 09 05:55:51 <jsharkey> ooh, do 31+11 to keep it backwards-greppable  ;)
Dec 09 05:55:54 <pfft> solca: could it be that it's really in out/target/common/obj/JAVA_LIBRARIES/framework_intermediates/classes.dex
Dec 09 05:56:12 <bgupta> Can you make SQL backups and ship them somewhere relatively safe? Boxes die... It would be a bitch to have to start over.
Dec 09 05:56:23 <bgupta> (If you need a place to rsync dumps to let me know)
Dec 09 05:56:24 <solca> pfft: those are build time generated
Dec 09 05:56:33 <pfft> solca: in other words it's in system/core/rootdir/etc/init.goldfish.rc but after your build its in out/target/common/obj/JAVA_LIBRARIES/framework_intermediates/classes.dex
Dec 09 05:56:54 <pfft> solca: yes maybe i think so ... can you tell ... i suck at this stuff :-)
Dec 09 05:57:04 <pfft> anyway ...
Dec 09 05:57:24 <pfft> $ grep -n -r -i enable_google_location_features out/target/common/obj/JAVA_LIBRARIES/framework_intermediates/classes.dex
Dec 09 05:57:24 <pfft> Binary file out/target/common/obj/JAVA_LIBRARIES/framework_intermediates/classes.dex matches
Dec 09 05:57:36 * DarkriftX backs it up to his g1
Dec 09 05:57:37 <DarkriftX> lol
Dec 09 05:58:03 <solca> pfft: I don't think you suck, you find the problem in less than 2 minutes
Dec 09 05:58:13 <pfft> solca: glad to help
Dec 09 05:58:14 <solca> pfft: really, you're good
Dec 09 05:58:21 <pfft> solca: thnx
Dec 09 05:58:29 <solca> pfft: now the thing is that I never define that property
Dec 09 05:58:47 <solca> pfft: querying the live system it doesnt return anything with that key
Dec 09 05:59:03 <pfft> solca: you may not be querying what you think you are
Dec 09 05:59:14 <solca> pfft: probably
Dec 09 05:59:16 <pfft> solca: teach me how you are querying the live ssystem
Dec 09 06:00:38 <solca> pfft: http://pastebin.com/m5ab7d0f7
Dec 09 06:01:30 <pfft> solca: cool ... is that from adb shell ?
Dec 09 06:01:36 <solca> pfft: yep
Dec 09 06:01:46 <pfft> solca: cool ... i love this platform
Dec 09 06:01:52 <solca> pfft: me too!
Dec 09 06:03:23 <solca> pfft: was a pleasure chat with you, hopefully I can chat with you any other day
Dec 09 06:03:30 <solca> as I got to go
Dec 09 06:03:32 <pfft> solca: ok ... so the longest property name i found in mine was gsm.defaultpdpcontext.active
Dec 09 06:03:43 <pfft> solca: which comes in at 29 characters
Dec 09 06:03:57 <solca> pfft: maybe increasing the default size will fix the problem
Dec 09 06:04:09 <pfft> solca: so i have a prong suspition that android is simply not reading in all the properties with longer names
Dec 09 06:04:22 <pfft> prong = strong
Dec 09 06:04:41 <pfft> suspition = suspition + spelling issues + dyslexia
Dec 09 06:05:20 <solca> pfft: hmm, exactly because the backtrace clearly shows that longer key but getprop doesnt show it
Dec 09 06:05:22 <pfft> solca: maybe android simply cant read the properties with longer names
Dec 09 06:05:29 <solca> pfft: or wait
Dec 09 06:05:42 <solca> pfft: I think when I query I didn't have enable wifi
Dec 09 06:06:29 <ttuttle> any Googlers around?
Dec 09 06:06:34 <xsdg> ttuttle: yo
Dec 09 06:06:48 <pfft> solca: i'm not sure enabling wifi will help in this case
Dec 09 06:07:26 <DarkriftX> i google all the time ttuttle does that count?
Dec 09 06:07:33 <ttuttle> DarkriftX: no, sorry.
Dec 09 06:07:51 <solca> pfft: the getprop output is exactly the same as the one in pastebin
Dec 09 06:07:56 <ttuttle> xsdg: pm
Dec 09 06:09:35 <pfft> solca: check this ...
Dec 09 06:09:44 <pfft> # getprop gsm.defaultpdpcontext.active
Dec 09 06:09:44 <pfft> true
Dec 09 06:09:50 <pfft> # getprop ro.com.google.enable_google_location_features
Dec 09 06:09:50 <pfft> #
Dec 09 06:10:05 <snadge> is anyone here trying to use tetherbot's socks proxy with either tsocks or dante?
Dec 09 06:10:12 <solca> pfft:
Dec 09 06:10:13 <solca> setprop ro.com.google.enable_google_location_features 1
Dec 09 06:10:13 <solca> could not set property
Dec 09 06:10:17 <snadge> ie.. not just using firefox to web browse with
Dec 09 06:10:43 <pfft> solca: yup i got the same ... i thinkit's a limitation of android
Dec 09 06:11:31 <pfft> i think it's worth trying a shorter property name in the init.goldfish.rc file, and then doing a rebuild
Dec 09 06:11:56 <pfft> oh wait ... and changing all of the references to the new (shorter) property name
Dec 09 06:12:10 <pfft> solca: do you think you could try that?
Dec 09 06:12:25 <solca> pfft: try what?
Dec 09 06:12:53 <pfft> solca: 1) putting a shorter property name in the init.goldfish.rc file
Dec 09 06:13:12 <pfft> solca: 2) changing all the references in the .java (and elsewhere if any) to the new shorter name
Dec 09 06:13:26 <pfft> solca: 3) rebuilding and redeploying with the shorter name
Dec 09 06:13:56 <solca> pfft: but init.goldfish.rc is specific to the goldfish platform (emulator)
Dec 09 06:14:15 <solca> but you grep and didnt find any ocurrences of that key right?
Dec 09 06:14:17 <pfft> solca: you are teaching me things
Dec 09 06:14:29 <solca> pfft: you too :P
Dec 09 06:14:49 <solca> goldfish is a platform invented by google for the qemu emulator
Dec 09 06:15:02 <solca> I did not use it at all
Dec 09 06:15:15 <solca> and in my init.rc I never set that key
Dec 09 06:16:04 <solca> maybe that key is set somewhere in the source
Dec 09 06:16:06 <pfft> solca: well the LocationCollector.java sure does want that property so it needs to come from somewhere
Dec 09 06:16:20 <solca> but broken
Dec 09 06:16:27 <DarkriftX> anyone know where i can find text versions of the channel logs?
Dec 09 06:16:42 <DarkriftX> something i can make a bot search through besides zipped tars?
Dec 09 06:17:20 <pfft> solca: the only 2 places i found it were:
Dec 09 06:17:33 <solca> pfft: probably is set like this: google_key=ro.com.google;key=$google_key + . + ... ?
Dec 09 06:17:34 <pfft> out/target/common/obj/JAVA_LIBRARIES/framework_intermediates/classes.dex
Dec 09 06:17:34 <pfft> system/core/rootdir/etc/init.goldfish.rc
Dec 09 06:17:36 <solca> got it?
Dec 09 06:18:12 <solca> do you grep just "enable_google_location_features" ?
Dec 09 06:18:17 <pfft> solca: could be ... but that strikes me as a bit un-java like
Dec 09 06:18:35 <pfft> solca: yes, that's all i grepped for
Dec 09 06:18:49 * solca is grepping...
Dec 09 06:18:53 <pfft> solca: maybe you;ll have better luck
Dec 09 06:18:57 <solca> grep -r "enable_google_location_features" . 2>/dev/null
Dec 09 06:19:10 <solca> tons of hits
Dec 09 06:19:32 <pfft> i got 2 other files with hits, but they are checking the value not setting the value
Dec 09 06:19:41 <pfft> i also got:
Dec 09 06:19:51 <solca> well tons = 5 hits :)
Dec 09 06:19:56 <pfft> frameworks/base/location/java/com/android/internal/location/NetworkLocationProvider.java
Dec 09 06:20:00 <pfft> and of course ...
Dec 09 06:20:08 <pfft> frameworks/base/location/java/com/android/internal/location/LocationCollector.java
Dec 09 06:20:13 <pfft> but that's all i found
Dec 09 06:20:27 <pfft> solca: your machine is faster than mine
Dec 09 06:20:30 <solca> yea not setting, just checking
Dec 09 06:21:01 <pfft> solca: anyway ... i'm pretty confident we've found the issue
Dec 09 06:21:09 <pfft> solca: the key is simply too long
Dec 09 06:21:31 <solca> pfft: I'm pretty sure that key is never set
Dec 09 06:21:51 <pfft> maybe we could try a shorter key (especially in the NetworkLocationProvider.java and LocationCollector.java files)
Dec 09 06:22:09 <pfft> solca: maybe it is never set
Dec 09 06:22:13 <solca> pfft: so the solution could be just shortening the key right?
Dec 09 06:22:14 <pfft> solca: that's ok
Dec 09 06:22:32 <pfft> solca: but the java will still try to check for that long key name and get the error
Dec 09 06:22:41 <pfft> solca: right
Dec 09 06:22:48 <solca> pfft: exaclty! now that make sense
Dec 09 06:23:09 <solca> pfft: how people is not getting biten by that?
Dec 09 06:23:11 <pfft> solca: hope that helps
Dec 09 06:23:35 <pfft> solca: maybe they do not make it into that particular block of code ... for example
Dec 09 06:23:53 <solca> pfft: I think the problem is that I enabled all the posible apps
Dec 09 06:24:04 <solca> pfft: normal porters don't do that
Dec 09 06:24:07 <solca> :)
Dec 09 06:24:36 <Nafai> I'm trying to find the code that comes up when you choose to share a Picture
Dec 09 06:25:05 <pfft> solca: maybe ...
Dec 09 06:25:15 <Nafai> any pointers on how to locate that?
Dec 09 06:25:30 <pfft> solca: anyway ... did you get my email address?
Dec 09 06:25:45 <solca> pfft: yes I got it
Dec 09 06:26:00 <solca> pfft: can I add you to the credits?
Dec 09 06:26:03 <pfft> solca: good email me the results when you get a chance to try with the shorter name
Dec 09 06:26:13 <pfft> solca: i'm going to bed now too :-)
Dec 09 06:26:33 <solca> pfft: this was a very important debugging session for me
Dec 09 06:26:44 <pfft> solca: hope it was helpful
Dec 09 06:26:53 <solca> pfft: sure I'll mail you the results
Dec 09 06:27:01 <solca> pfft: I'm pretty sure it would be fixed
Dec 09 06:27:02 <pfft> solca: have a good evening
Dec 09 06:27:12 <solca> pfft: can I add you to the credits?
Dec 09 06:27:21 <solca> pfft: in the port site
Dec 09 06:27:23 <pfft> solca: of course :-)
Dec 09 06:27:32 <snadge> hmm.. trying dante's socksify now, instead of tsocks.. lets see if this is more stable
Dec 09 06:27:38 <solca> pfft: ok dude, thank you very much!!!!
Dec 09 06:27:39 <pfft> solca: I'll email you my real name even :-)
Dec 09 06:27:54 <solca> pfft: ok, I'll email you tommorrow
Dec 09 06:27:58 <pfft> solca: g'night
Dec 09 06:28:03 <solca> good night
Dec 09 06:30:30 <unix_infidel> snadge: couldnt get tetherbot working?
Dec 09 06:30:57 <snadge> yeah .. tetherbot works fine, im just trying to work out why ssh sessions tunnelled through tetherbot, repeatedly get disconnected
Dec 09 06:31:07 <jsharkey> snadge: ive just used the tunnel for ssh instead of socks
Dec 09 06:31:30 <snadge> im really testing the socks implementation ;)
Dec 09 06:31:31 <jsharkey> in fact, im typing over one of theose tunnels right now lul
Dec 09 06:31:43 <snadge> i've even got pidgin to connect to msn via tetherbot
Dec 09 06:31:56 <snadge> but that disconnects too.. after random period of time
Dec 09 06:32:25 <snadge> mozilla thunderbird is working.. with ssl/tls certificates
Dec 09 06:32:37 <jsharkey> snadge: using 3g or edge?
Dec 09 06:32:42 <snadge> wifi
Dec 09 06:32:59 <pfft> solca: you still there?
Dec 09 06:33:17 <jsharkey> hmm odd.  do you see anything relevant in logcat when it drops?
Dec 09 06:33:22 <snadge> i dont have data enabled on my g1 yet ;) .. im working around a failed switch at work, by tethering to my g1 via usb.. and using its wifi
Dec 09 06:33:45 <ttuttle> snadge: ...wow.
Dec 09 06:34:23 <snadge> adb logcat ?
Dec 09 06:34:58 <jsharkey> aww go break into net closet and fix it  :P
Dec 09 06:35:38 <unix_infidel> jsharkey: i wonder what the admins at goog will have to say to that ;-)
Dec 09 06:36:15 <snadge> theres nothing interesting in my logcat when i get disconnected
Dec 09 06:36:17 <jsharkey> oh does snadge work there?
Dec 09 06:36:36 * unix_infidel envisions jsharkey tripping over some fibre and knocking out gmail for the eastern seaboard :-)
Dec 09 06:36:41 <Gary|tp> I hate how people think $50 a year for exchange support is even somewhat viable.
Dec 09 06:36:55 <unix_infidel> Gary|tp: hmm?
Dec 09 06:36:55 <ttuttle> That's absurd.
Dec 09 06:37:01 <jsharkey> unix_infidel: network access is like some sort of sacred right to geeks  :P
Dec 09 06:37:16 <Gary|tp> http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=456183
Dec 09 06:37:27 <snadge> one semi interesting thing to note, is that mozilla thunderbird works with dante's "socksify" script.. but not tsock (dns issue)
Dec 09 06:37:34 <unix_infidel> jsharkey: it's the basis of geekery doncha knoww.
Dec 09 06:37:45 <snadge> but using either socksify or tsocks.. my ssh sessions randomly get "remote disconnected"
Dec 09 06:38:11 <Gary|tp> I wonder if they think they'd actually make *more* money that way. If they charged $10 or $20 a year, they'd probably TRIPLE their amount of sales, and make it a lot less likely for people to use cracked versions.
Dec 09 06:38:17 <AstainHellbring> anyone in here heard anything about the sprint android device?
Dec 09 06:38:48 <snadge> actually.. i could be wrong, but my ssh disconnect seems to coincide with garbage collector
Dec 09 06:38:52 <jsharkey> snadge: there is a source dump for tetherbot somewhere, which might help if youre interested in debugging
Dec 09 06:38:53 <summatusmentis> not since it was first rumored, AstainHellbring
Dec 09 06:38:59 <AstainHellbring> damn
Dec 09 06:39:17 <summatusmentis> I'm waiting patiently too :)
Dec 09 06:39:18 <AstainHellbring> all I have heard is the htc code name of pigassi and that it is being kept under tight lock and key
Dec 09 06:39:25 <unix_infidel> AstainHellbring: likely to be motorola + verizon next.
Dec 09 06:39:40 <summatusmentis> unix_infidel: based on what?
Dec 09 06:39:51 <jsharkey> (what kind of code name is that?  from dream to pigassi?  lol)
Dec 09 06:39:51 <Gary|tp> Verizon? They actually develop their own phones?
Dec 09 06:39:51 <summatusmentis> I mean, I've heard the moto stuff, but why vzw?
Dec 09 06:40:11 <AstainHellbring> jsharkey the code names are all wierd
Dec 09 06:40:16 <AstainHellbring> the sprint touch pro is code named herman
Dec 09 06:40:27 <Gary|tp> Anyway, ugh, verizon. Rather stay on T-Mobile.
Dec 09 06:40:50 <AstainHellbring> uhm yah fuck verizon
Dec 09 06:41:06 <summatusmentis> I'd heard VZW was likely to be 3rd or 4th
Dec 09 06:41:12 <Gary|tp> T-Mobile > Sprint > AT&T => Verizon. imo.
Dec 09 06:41:23 <Gary|tp> Coverage varies of course, T-Mobile fails there, but I don't travel too often.
Dec 09 06:41:37 <ttuttle> AT&T > Verizon, certainly!
Dec 09 06:41:38 <summatusmentis> Gary|tp: that's why I put sprint ahead of tmob, coverage
Dec 09 06:41:38 <jsharkey> well vzw just tried with their blackberry storm
Dec 09 06:42:02 <unix_infidel> question is, which handset manufacturer in the OHA will team up with a mobile operator in the US to provide a phone that's comparable to the iPhone at a reasonable price.
Dec 09 06:42:15 <unix_infidel> not....who's next.
Dec 09 06:42:17 <summatusmentis> good luck
Dec 09 06:42:37 <AstainHellbring> the iphone is a huge POS
Dec 09 06:42:47 <summatusmentis> the UI is beautiful
Dec 09 06:42:49 <snadge> jsharkey: what triggers the garbage collector?
Dec 09 06:42:51 <theCarpenter1> hmm, any reason why my phone wont show up as a Mass Storage Device under linux..?
Dec 09 06:43:28 <AstainHellbring> the UI for iphone is trash
Dec 09 06:43:44 <snadge> it must be a problem with tetherbot.. the GC is deleting my ssh connection ;)
Dec 09 06:43:47 <Gary|tp> theCarpenter1: Did you mount it on the phone?
Dec 09 06:44:01 <summatusmentis> AstainHellbring: spent any time using it?
Dec 09 06:44:10 <AstainHellbring> yes
Dec 09 06:44:14 <AstainHellbring> hated every second of it
Dec 09 06:44:18 <AstainHellbring> garbage
Dec 09 06:44:38 <summatusmentis> based on what?
Dec 09 06:45:09 <theCarpenter1> Gary|tp: ?
Dec 09 06:45:14 <AstainHellbring> comparision to both symbian and WM
Dec 09 06:45:15 <Gary|tp> unix_infidel: Why? The G1 isn't exactly as huge as most make it out to be. It's not the sexiest, but fuck, who cares.
Dec 09 06:45:35 <Gary|tp> theCarpenter1: After RC28, you have to mount the phone, on the phone. Check notification window.
Dec 09 06:46:31 <Gary|tp> To me, if it fits in my pocket, it's fine.
Dec 09 06:47:52 <FF> hi! I've got G1 and want to give internet to it via laptop. G1 is connected to laptop via USB. any ideas?)
Dec 09 06:48:26 <Gary|tp> Firmware version?
Dec 09 06:48:52 <Gary|tp> Oh wait, you want to give the G1 internet from the laptop? Doubt anyones done that yet.
Dec 09 06:49:00 <FF> ehm... I'll look now, but maybe root access is not the way I need)
Dec 09 06:49:04 <jsharkey> FF: hmm if linux laptop, might setup its own AP for the g1 to latch onto
Dec 09 06:49:11 <FF> aha
Dec 09 06:49:23 <FF> I'm under win(
Dec 09 06:49:47 <summatusmentis> win can do ad-hoc wifi networking too
Dec 09 06:50:01 <jsharkey> (can you do net sharing on a adhoc connection in win?)
Dec 09 06:50:10 <summatusmentis> should be able to
Dec 09 06:50:16 <summatusmentis> I'm not sure how, but I would think so
Dec 09 06:50:35 <FF> khm... feeling myself silly. WinXP Home with root access - this is what I have
Dec 09 06:50:56 <jsharkey> FF: are you using the laptop wireless for net already (or you use wired for net)?
Dec 09 06:51:17 <FF> no, I use std wire or how is it called)
Dec 09 06:51:34 <FF> my wifi is commonly off
Dec 09 06:51:40 <theCarpenter1> Okay, fixed the mounting thing awesome
Dec 09 06:51:49 <theCarpenter1> Next step - is there any way to monitor processes on the phone?
Dec 09 06:52:20 <jsharkey> summatusmentis: win ICS always likes latching onto 192.168.0.1 and doing a dhcp server, not sure how that would behave on the 169.* adhoc net
Dec 09 06:52:45 <theCarpenter1> or filter packets, or do any general hackery from the workstation the phone is connected to? I know there's a debugging mode; what exactly does it allow me to do?
Dec 09 06:52:56 <xsdg> FF: "ethernet", fwiw
Dec 09 06:53:11 <FF> xsdg: ah, yes!)
Dec 09 06:54:32 <theCarpenter1> also, i dont suppose there's any way to screw aroudn with the phone's internal memory, default installed applications, etc?
Dec 09 06:54:36 <FF> My idea is based on looking at the emulator - it has internet access, so I determined that the same way G1 could be proxied to inet..
Dec 09 06:54:38 <sparkle> theCarpenter1: it depends
Dec 09 06:54:54 <sparkle> stock, you can log in as userid "shell", and run ps and a few other things
Dec 09 06:55:21 <sparkle> if you're running a release before RC30, you can get root access and basically do whatever you want, up to and including flashing new kernels, software ,etc
Dec 09 06:55:34 <sparkle> but that's not really a place you want to go unless you have some familiarity
Dec 09 06:56:17 <Gary|tp> theCarpenter1: just run ps for a list of processes.
Dec 09 06:56:30 <Gary|tp> Bah, sparkle beat me.
Dec 09 06:56:35 * sparkle shrugsmiles
Dec 09 06:56:59 <FF> sparkle: I'm not fearing unknown things, but this way is not suitable for me (but I'm starting be unsure about this) ..
Dec 09 06:57:14 <Gary|tp> Then you wouldn't be able to :p
Dec 09 06:57:42 <FF> ah.. you're so cruel)
Dec 09 06:57:48 <joeyjones> heh, i finally posted a link to my android on htc vogue manual to the xda forum :p
Dec 09 06:58:14 <DarkriftX> i took all the logs since the end of may, threw them into lynx to make them text only (4.4mb), then grepped them for ?'s and the output file was 443K
Dec 09 06:58:27 <DarkriftX> 10% of this channel is questions lol (that only counts questions with a ?)
Dec 09 06:58:32 * sparkle nods
Dec 09 06:58:41 <sparkle> if you're a unix maven this thing is a fun playground
Dec 09 06:58:47 <sparkle> if not then this is probably a bad place to learn
Dec 09 06:58:52 <sparkle> it's not very tolerant of slipups in the wrong place
Dec 09 06:59:13 <joeyjones> sparkle: yeah, it;s not like you can toss a cd in the drive and re-install the OS :p
Dec 09 06:59:26 <DarkriftX> well, actually....
Dec 09 06:59:31 * sparkle chuckles
Dec 09 06:59:32 <DarkriftX> if you know the right ppl, you almost can
Dec 09 06:59:33 <DarkriftX> lol
Dec 09 06:59:48 <joeyjones> DarkriftX: but if you're stupid enough to fuck it up you msot likely don't
Dec 09 06:59:48 * DarkriftX chuckles at sparkle's chuckle
Dec 09 06:59:57 <DarkriftX> i guess thats true
Dec 09 07:00:02 * sparkle sighs
Dec 09 07:00:06 <sparkle> go go gadget vxdg import!
Dec 09 07:00:10 * sparkle mutters
Dec 09 07:00:26 <DarkriftX> this wiki is going to be huge next weekend
Dec 09 07:00:33 <DarkriftX> i just gave him almost a 500k file of pure questions
Dec 09 07:00:44 <joeyjones> what wiki?
Dec 09 07:00:54 <DarkriftX> my wiki, bgupta is adding a faq to it
Dec 09 07:00:58 <DarkriftX> android-dls.com/wiki
Dec 09 07:01:15 <DarkriftX> its already huge, but he was running out of questions for it
Dec 09 07:01:15 <DarkriftX> lol
Dec 09 07:01:53 <DarkriftX> even if you trim the 500k file to like 100k (junk questions like "really?") then it is still a lot of text
Dec 09 07:02:06 <joeyjones> i should add http://distro.jjhosting.org/android/user_manual.pdf to the development section :p
Dec 09 07:02:17 <DarkriftX> heh
Dec 09 07:02:23 <DarkriftX> someone told you to last night i think
Dec 09 07:02:26 <joeyjones> yup
Dec 09 07:02:30 <DarkriftX> bgupta himself i believe
Dec 09 07:02:42 <joeyjones> but i'll probably wait a bit, until i get it back edited from my prof
Dec 09 07:02:49 <joeyjones> since i'm turing it in tomorrow
Dec 09 07:02:52 <joeyjones> *turning
Dec 09 07:03:09 <bgupta> joeyjoey: IT should prolly go in the ports section, but you said that was a temp location..
Dec 09 07:03:25 <DarkriftX> i wouldnt mind you throwing the link there, but if you do, please also put the text up so they have a choice of following the link or not
Dec 09 07:03:27 <bgupta> or is that a different URL?
Dec 09 07:03:28 <joeyjones> bgupta: i made a more-permenent location for it
Dec 09 07:04:04 * DarkriftX goes to smoke
Dec 09 07:04:23 <DarkriftX> lol, my g1's time is 0:04
Dec 09 07:04:28 <FF> Thanks for help, people) I see just only google knows the answer on my questions. If I'll get the answer then I'll report you the solution (if you're interested)
Dec 09 07:04:32 <DarkriftX> thats funny looking
Dec 09 07:04:41 <joeyjones> DarkriftX: with the ammount of graphics it would be a butch to have the it display properly in a wiki
Dec 09 07:05:01 <DarkriftX> nah, i looked at it yesterday
Dec 09 07:05:04 <DarkriftX> its not that bad
Dec 09 07:05:09 <joeyjones> *bitch
Dec 09 07:05:24 <theCarpenter1> so i have a jailbroken phone; i dont suppose i can get an SSH server installed on it? has anyone pulled it off?
Dec 09 07:05:28 <sparkle> sure
Dec 09 07:05:34 <DarkriftX> theCarpenter1: yes you can
Dec 09 07:05:37 <bgupta> yeah...
Dec 09 07:05:40 * DarkriftX lets others handle that
Dec 09 07:05:54 <DarkriftX> smoke time
Dec 09 07:06:03 <sparkle> janet@janetsbrick:~$ ps -ef |grep ssh
Dec 09 07:06:03 <sparkle> root       507     1  0 17:45 ?        00:00:00 /usr/sbin/sshd
Dec 09 07:06:07 <joeyjones> DarkriftX: have fun :p
Dec 09 07:06:19 <bgupta> Although you prolly wnat dropbear instead.. http://www.gotontheinter.net/node/2
Dec 09 07:06:35 * sparkle nods
Dec 09 07:06:42 <bgupta> OpenSSH is relatively huge in comparison
Dec 09 07:06:43 <snadge> the tcp forwarding is much more stable.. it would be nice if tetherbot was an officially supported google thing.. its kickass
Dec 09 07:06:53 <sparkle> i don't see any point myself to a half-assed userland, i prefer mine fully-assed :)
Dec 09 07:07:32 <snadge> so socks is stable with firefox browsing (so long as you know to enable dns via socks) and tcp forwarding with ssh, also works beautifully .. tcp over socks, randomly disconnects you.. i would like to discuss this with the author, or get someone else to ;)
Dec 09 07:09:08 <bgupta> Neat: http://www.brodit.com/productinformation.jsp?anr=848868&sortiment=null
Dec 09 07:09:18 * DarkriftX is gonna watch heroes now... 
Dec 09 07:09:25 <DarkriftX> say my nick if you need me
Dec 09 07:09:31 <bgupta> will do
Dec 09 07:09:44 <bgupta> Did you hear me? I just sadi it
Dec 09 07:16:24 <Nafai> If I have a android.net.Uri is there anyway to get a java.io.File from that?
Dec 09 07:18:37 <tric> what do you need a File for?
Dec 09 07:19:04 <Nafai> 3rd party API I'm wanting to use is calling for a File
Dec 09 07:19:47 <Nafai> If I have to, I'll implement my own subclass of java.io.File that puts the right semantics there
Dec 09 07:54:31 <DarkriftX> sure died in here :S
Dec 09 07:56:22 <tmzt> swetland: is SEND-MENU-END ctrlaltdel at the init level or magic sysrq (assuming it always works)
Dec 09 08:05:23 <xsdg> tmzt: I think it's approximately the former, though not exactly
Dec 09 08:05:59 <xsdg> tmzt: I might be wrong, though
Dec 09 08:06:41 <xsdg> tmzt: (that is, it's hard to tell since the phone doesn't really go through much of a shutdown process)
Dec 09 08:06:45 <xsdg> .
Dec 09 08:11:01 <jsharkey> awesome suddenly comcast decided to start woring
Dec 09 08:11:04 <jsharkey> *working
Dec 09 08:14:02 <RyeBrye> it's a trap
Dec 09 08:14:04 <RyeBrye> ;)
Dec 09 08:16:17 <jsharkey> RyeBrye: dont worry, im wrapping everything touching comcast in ssl to a trusted backbone  ;)
Dec 09 08:16:32 <RyeBrye> Yes, I know. I'm reading it all now
Dec 09 08:23:11 <Foxdie> morning
Dec 09 08:26:10 <bgupta> Morning... FAQ is making good progress: http://android-dls.com/wiki/index.php?title=Android_FAQ
Dec 09 08:28:29 <Foxdie> cool, checking it out now
Dec 09 08:29:32 <Foxdie> I see infobot made it there :)
Dec 09 08:31:08 <tauno> "no publicly-accessible logging"? isn't infobot doing that?
Dec 09 08:31:25 <bgupta> infobot has been banned.
Dec 09 08:31:40 <Foxdie> it was here yesterday
Dec 09 08:31:43 <Foxdie> how come it was banned?
Dec 09 08:32:11 <bgupta> let me be more clear.. infobot was banned within the past 16 hours or so
Dec 09 08:32:23 <bgupta> Because it was publically logging..
Dec 09 08:32:40 <bgupta> and Google ops didn't want that... it is against channel rules
Dec 09 08:33:04 <nizox> http://linmob.blogspot.com/2008/12/android-on-motorola-a810.html
Dec 09 08:33:14 <tauno> ..that was the decision of the googleduded themselves.. wasn't it? I mean they made the vote if you wanted it to be logging or not and then "yes, please log" won... or..?
Dec 09 08:33:32 <bgupta> THat I can't say...
Dec 09 08:33:48 <bgupta> I havent been around that long...
Dec 09 08:33:56 <tauno> and then it was logging.. even the topic, set by a googledude, said that this chan may now be logged.. so what happened? :)
Dec 09 08:34:16 <bgupta> Take it up with SanMeHat
Dec 09 08:34:33 <bgupta> (I think that is who did the ban)
Dec 09 08:34:54 <xsdg> I think I know why it happened.  I probably can't go into it, but I'm pretty sure it wasn't a "let's vote" issue
Dec 09 08:35:49 * tauno is confused
Dec 09 08:36:31 <xsdg> tauno: don't worry about it.  If the reason is what I think it is, the decision isn't going to be reversed.
Dec 09 08:37:07 <tauno> first they want it to be logged and now they don't want it anymore.. I don't care if it is or not.. just wanna understand what's going on :)
Dec 09 08:39:11 <Foxdie> probably because they can't control what people say and can't censor the log effectively
Dec 09 08:39:14 <Foxdie> it is a shame though
Dec 09 08:40:05 <tauno> why do they have to censor it or control what people say? why do they care about it? or did someone from google get into trouble for saying something here that he shouldn't? ;)
Dec 09 08:42:46 <bgupta> Personally, I have mixed feelings about public irc logs
Dec 09 08:43:53 <JesusFreke> same here
Dec 09 08:43:58 <RyeBrye> Someone brought up that having a logging bot in a channel that wasn't in the topic or whatever violated freenodes policy I think
Dec 09 08:44:12 <JesusFreke> I just did a search the other day, and found some IRC logs of me from 2004
Dec 09 08:44:26 <RyeBrye> the real issue was they wanted to put the irc logs in the topic
Dec 09 08:44:29 <JesusFreke> kinda scary. lol
Dec 09 08:44:32 <RyeBrye> but the solution was just to ban infobot
Dec 09 08:44:43 <RyeBrye> infobot doesn't log stuff that starts with a "space"
Dec 09 08:44:59 <bgupta> JF: WHen you coming out with a new firmware? I think it's almost time?
Dec 09 08:45:14 <bgupta> :)
Dec 09 08:45:24 <JesusFreke> yeah, week or two maybe. depends on how industrious I'm feeling :)
Dec 09 08:46:30 <JesusFreke> wow. just found another log from 2001
Dec 09 08:46:32 * bgupta wonders if we can setup an OTA update server for devices that accept unsigned updates.
Dec 09 08:46:40 <JesusFreke> oh, wait. that wasn't IRC
Dec 09 08:47:11 <bgupta> The update server would serve up JF firmwares
Dec 09 08:47:37 <Foxdie> why do you have mixed feelings bgupta?
Dec 09 08:47:49 <Foxdie> I would have thought if you wanted privacy, you just go to PM with someone
Dec 09 08:48:03 <Foxdie> or like RyeBrye says, start your message with a space and it doesn't get logged :)
Dec 09 08:48:15 <bgupta> JesusFreke check out faq.. lots of updates since you were last on.
Dec 09 08:48:27 <JesusFreke> yeah, I've taken a quick peek :)
Dec 09 08:48:39 <JesusFreke> lots of stuff on there. looks like you're doing a good job with it :D
Dec 09 08:48:45 <Foxdie> :)
Dec 09 08:48:54 <Foxdie> it is starting to become very comprehensive\
Dec 09 08:48:56 <Foxdie> -\
Dec 09 08:49:06 <bgupta> Well, when you are dealing with company reps... they tend to clam up if people are publically logging..for fear of letting inadvertantly slip.
Dec 09 08:49:39 <Foxdie> on the FAQ, near the bottom
Dec 09 08:49:47 <Foxdie> "Does G1 or Android support multitouch?"
Dec 09 08:49:57 <bgupta> I'd imagine it is stressful, and would tend to make communications happen via internal channels
Dec 09 08:50:10 <Foxdie> Answer; YES, but it isn't enabled, mainly due to licensing issues.
Dec 09 08:50:15 <bgupta> so we don't get to talk to devs at all then.. I've been in this situation before.
Dec 09 08:51:03 <Foxdie> hmm, what seems to be "the" app to read QR codes?
Dec 09 08:51:15 <bgupta> Yeah.. I know, If you check my working notes I have a link to Rye's article... I just don't know if Android supports it... THe G1 hardware apparently does.
Dec 09 08:51:40 <bgupta> is that a question for the FAQ?
Dec 09 08:52:08 <Foxdie> nope, but I guess it could be added to it.. :)
Dec 09 08:52:24 <bgupta> http://www.qrstuff.com/ is for reading them.
Dec 09 08:52:29 <bgupta> I mean generating
Dec 09 08:53:12 <Foxdie> oh aye, I know how to do that
Dec 09 08:53:18 <Foxdie> I have a QR reader for my WinMo handset
Dec 09 08:53:22 <tauno> Foxdie, "Barcode Scanner"
Dec 09 08:53:29 <Foxdie> I just want one for the G1
Dec 09 08:53:40 <bgupta> My understanding is that there is a QR reader built into G1.
Dec 09 08:53:42 <Foxdie> tauno, I guess I should clarify my question a little
Dec 09 08:53:44 <tauno> dl it form the market - works just fine
Dec 09 08:54:28 <Foxdie> "Barcode Scanner", or "CompareEverywhere" ?
Dec 09 08:54:33 <xsdg> Foxdie: barcode scanner
Dec 09 08:54:35 <Foxdie> assuming the latter supports QR codes too, I don't know
Dec 09 08:54:45 <xsdg> Foxdie: it likely doesn't
Dec 09 08:54:48 <Foxdie> ok
Dec 09 08:56:20 <Leeds> built in?
Dec 09 08:56:32 <xsdg> Leeds: not really; it uses the camera
Dec 09 08:56:46 <Foxdie> holy crap
Dec 09 08:56:53 <Foxdie> barcode scanner is awesome
Dec 09 08:56:57 <bgupta> http://awalkingcity.com/blog/?p=39
Dec 09 08:57:10 <tauno> Foxdie, told you so :)
Dec 09 08:57:30 <Foxdie> thanks :)
Dec 09 08:57:57 <bgupta> Barcide Scanner pusblishes the intent
Dec 09 08:58:05 <phyburn> is there anyway to get the devloper edition of android on the G1 if you don't have root access?
Dec 09 08:58:07 <bgupta> for any app to read QRs
Dec 09 08:58:29 <xsdg> phyburn: have you heard about the developer devices?
Dec 09 08:58:56 <Foxdie> wow, scanned the barcode on the back of a book on my desk, takes me straight to a review page, that is sweet
Dec 09 08:58:57 <DarkriftX> no phyburn
Dec 09 08:59:00 <phyburn> I'm sorry I mean the "engineering bootloader"
Dec 09 08:59:09 <phyburn> damn thats annoying
Dec 09 08:59:16 <xsdg> phyburn: "have you heard about hte developer devices"?
Dec 09 08:59:17 <RyeBrye> phyburn: nope. you need root to flash the bootloader
Dec 09 08:59:23 <phyburn> ill have to wait =(
Dec 09 08:59:25 <phyburn> xsdg, yes
Dec 09 08:59:44 <bgupta> phyburn: Why will you have to wait?
Dec 09 09:00:04 <phyburn> I have RC30 installed, and no way to root it
Dec 09 09:00:19 <bgupta> ah... You could be waiting a long time.
Dec 09 09:00:28 <phyburn> I know ^^
Dec 09 09:00:36 <phyburn> nah, I'm sure it will get hacked soon
Dec 09 09:01:41 <phyburn> god if they released the G1 Dev version when they released the normal version
Dec 09 09:01:44 <phyburn> I would have gotten it for sure
Dec 09 09:01:53 <bgupta> What I really want is an unlock root code that all licensed devs can get.
Dec 09 09:02:10 <xsdg> bgupta: the dev devices are not T-Mobile devices
Dec 09 09:02:14 <phyburn> bgupta, what do you mean by liscensed devs? Paying 25$ ? ^^
Dec 09 09:02:17 <bgupta> well I think it was a curtosly to t-mobile
Dec 09 09:02:22 <bgupta> yeah..
Dec 09 09:02:29 <xsdg> bgupta: it's not just "courtesy"
Dec 09 09:02:42 <xsdg> bgupta: the dev devices have nothing at all to do with T-Mobile, other than using the same hardware
Dec 09 09:03:00 <bgupta> IE: You sign a waiver, and pay the $25, and instead of buying  a dev device, you can turn your existing one into a dev device.. officially
Dec 09 09:03:08 <phyburn> do they have unlock codes currently? I heard something about that
Dec 09 09:03:55 <bgupta> They must have a way to get root on the devices.. signed updates need root
Dec 09 09:04:18 <xsdg> bgupta: I am fairly confident that T-Mobile wouldn't let that fly.  That's pretty much a sure way to increase their customer service costs (even if it's just to say "We're sorry, when you did that you voided your warranty")
Dec 09 09:04:22 <bgupta> If there isn't a way now, they could always push something out in an OTA
Dec 09 09:04:57 <bgupta> Yeah.. but that doesn't mean I can't keep wanting it.
Dec 09 09:05:06 <bgupta> :)
Dec 09 09:05:24 <tauno> pirate talk: Someone should make an app that can scan ISBN codes and then automatically searches/downloads the book in .pdf (or whatever) format to the sdcard.. (I have never read an ebook before and always buy/prefer real books)
Dec 09 09:06:18 <xsdg> tauno: wouldn't work; most micro-SD cards are _much_ smaller than the standard book size ;o)
Dec 09 09:06:46 <tauno> ok, .txt then - that should be much smaller :P
Dec 09 09:06:58 <xsdg> tauno: it was a joke :o)
Dec 09 09:08:06 <tauno> oh.. I'm a little sleepy today morning :)
Dec 09 09:08:42 <tauno> xsdg, and was ignoring the fact that an ebook is just a few MBs:)
Dec 09 09:09:00 <xsdg> :o)
Dec 09 09:09:50 <Foxdie> xsdg, you're telling me that a pdf of a book is going to be larger than say, 7-8GB?
Dec 09 09:10:05 <Foxdie> joke or not, I'm in disbelief :)
Dec 09 09:10:25 <xsdg> Foxdie: physical size... ha ha... get it?
Dec 09 09:12:03 <bgupta> tauno: Someone needs to first write a good ebook reader.. Unfortunately right now fbreaderj is missing alot of formats, and won't ever deal with DRM books
Dec 09 09:12:33 <djc> oh, ebooks would be nice!
Dec 09 09:12:37 <djc> is there a PDF reader yet?
Dec 09 09:12:48 <bgupta> not in the market..
Dec 09 09:13:47 <cutmasta> djc, http://www.android-portal.com/2008/11/07/multireader-free-word-viewer-pdf-reader-for-android/
Dec 09 09:14:33 <tauno> bgupta, my idea was that the app should download DRM free books (eg pirated copies) of it.. and just store it on the sdcar so you can pull them to your PC when you get home from the bookstore.. so you have shopped at the bookstore without actually apying anything (the G1 screen is too small to read something anyway IMO.. better read it from a big screen :))
Dec 09 09:14:52 <tauno> anyway.. I don't pirate ebooks myself and prefer real books :)
Dec 09 09:15:03 <tauno> was just a random idea
Dec 09 09:15:05 <djc> cutmasta: nice, thanks
Dec 09 09:15:14 <cutmasta> djc, np
Dec 09 09:16:18 <bgupta> thanks for the link.. added it to the "applicaionts" section of the FAQ.
Dec 09 09:16:35 <bgupta> http://android-dls.com/wiki/index.php?title=Android_FAQ#Applications
Dec 09 09:18:29 <bgupta> mmm. looks like it doesn't handle images... the PalmOS and Windows Mobile PDF readers are much better
Dec 09 09:19:45 <bgupta> Awesome! http://mobileofficeblog.dataviz.com/2008/12/dataviz_android_1.html
Dec 09 09:21:13 <bgupta> Documents to go rocks... we are needing a good spreadsheet/word/powerpoint/pdf app
Dec 09 09:21:52 <bgupta> Documents To go is one of the best mobile office apps out there...
Dec 09 09:22:47 * bgupta thinks that once the Market supports paid apps we are gonna see some awesome stuff come out.
Dec 09 09:23:17 <cutmasta> dito
Dec 09 09:23:58 <Leeds> Q1?
Dec 09 09:24:27 <bgupta> Time to sleep... just saw that it is 4:23AM here... Leeds: Q1 for what? paid apps?
Dec 09 09:24:40 <Leeds> yes
Dec 09 09:25:16 <DarkriftX> bgupta: last i heard multireader still didnt do pdf
Dec 09 09:25:25 <DarkriftX> and ive already got it on my site
Dec 09 09:25:58 <DarkriftX> from that page that was linked: One shortfall of the T-Mobile G1 is that it can’t open PDF or Word files natively, a function that’s rather important for a smartphone.
Dec 09 09:26:02 <DarkriftX> oops
Dec 09 09:26:27 <DarkriftX> If you don’t like messing around with beta software, there are a couple of workarounds to view PDF files on Android phones:
Dec 09 09:26:58 <bgupta> Leeds: http://news.cnet.com/8301-1035_3-10072682-94.html says "beginning next year" not sure when that is... oh wait "early in the first quarter 2009"
Dec 09 09:31:20 <bgupta> Thanks Leeds that was a good question for the Market seciton of the FAQ: http://android-dls.com/wiki/index.php?title=Android_FAQ#Market
Dec 09 09:31:48 <Leeds> so Q1 then :-)
Dec 09 09:33:00 * DarkriftX needs sleep
Dec 09 09:33:01 <DarkriftX> gn all
Dec 09 09:33:11 <bgupta> nite
Dec 09 09:33:45 <Foxdie> xsdg, you have a warped sense of humour dude
Dec 09 09:34:11 <Foxdie> its all good :)
Dec 09 09:35:23 <bgupta> I'm going too. need to be working in 5.5 hrs..
Dec 09 09:41:15 <Foxdie> sleep well dude
Dec 09 09:43:18 <snadge> does the g1 have a compass in it?
Dec 09 09:43:31 <snadge> i thought it did.. but couldn't find it
Dec 09 09:44:01 <DarkriftX> new app on market today called compass :)
Dec 09 09:44:08 <snadge> same with that street view feature, where you physically turn the phone and it changes your perspective
Dec 09 09:44:24 <snadge> im not sure if that made it into final, i havnt tried that yet
Dec 09 09:45:14 <Foxdie> it has a digital compass
Dec 09 09:45:21 <Foxdie> and the compass app has been out for a while now hasn't it?
Dec 09 09:45:26 <Foxdie> I installed it a couple of days ago
Dec 09 09:45:49 <Foxdie> sorry, I tell a lie
Dec 09 09:46:08 <Foxdie> I installed "orienteer" which does a similar thing
Dec 09 09:46:12 <Foxdie> (plus give you GPS coords)
Dec 09 09:46:36 <sparkle> hm
Dec 09 09:46:41 <sparkle> pretty good battery life for the radio
Dec 09 09:46:50 <sparkle> i was just on a 3.5 hour concall on my g1
Dec 09 09:47:17 <sparkle> and i still had 70% battery
Dec 09 09:47:27 <sparkle> that's a lot better than i expected
Dec 09 09:48:45 <Foxdie> its the cpu and screen that zap battery
Dec 09 09:49:03 <spikebike> yeah
Dec 09 09:49:04 <Leeds> I really get the feel that the battery profile is pretty constant
Dec 09 09:49:09 <spikebike> if you use it like a phone it's pretty good
Dec 09 09:49:28 <spikebike> if you use it like a laptop it's more like er... a laptop
Dec 09 09:49:56 <snadge> if you're like me, and have the wifi, screen cranked up.. play youtube videos, browse the web.. use the gps etc, take photos like a japanese tourist
Dec 09 09:50:01 <snadge> it goes flat in about 5 minutes ;)
Dec 09 09:50:51 <snadge> i bought one of those external usb powered batteries from t-mobile.. very cool
Dec 09 09:52:19 <Leeds> I did a very simple test... completely normal use, just didn't plug in until it died... 10% battery left at 24 hours, then about 15 minutes of audio and it was down to about 2%, at which point I plugged in
Dec 09 09:53:09 <sparkle> how on earth do you take photos on the g1 at any kind of rapid rate? ;)
Dec 09 09:53:38 <sparkle> i picture a tiny mousetrap game inside the handset that gets set off when i push the camera button...
Dec 09 09:55:01 <Leeds> there's a little imp who takes a couple of seconds to paint the picture
Dec 09 09:55:28 <spikebike> heh, I'm kinda pondering a netbook with a big battery (6-8 cell) mostly as an auxillary power supply for the g1 ;-)
Dec 09 09:56:48 <snadge> true.. taking a rapid pic using the g1, is a difficult task.. even if you dont properly lock your phone
Dec 09 09:57:27 <snadge> grab phone.. menu.. no.. menu.. hold camera button for 2 seconds.. camera pops up.. half hold button, great.. focussed.. now press.. *delay* click
Dec 09 09:57:57 <snadge> 20 seconds later you have your pic :P .. at which point you have driven past it, or its no longer there etc
Dec 09 09:58:01 <sparkle> too many digicams have at least some delay
Dec 09 09:58:06 <sparkle> i like my old nikon f3
Dec 09 09:58:17 <sparkle> you pushed the button down, that shutter was slamming out of the way *now*
Dec 09 09:58:35 <spikebike> heh, just got a d90, it's pretty quick aas well
Dec 09 09:58:57 <Leeds> there was a theory of a way to improve things - effectively, have it constantly take pictures, then when you press the button, go back a couple of frames and present your pic
Dec 09 09:59:10 <snadge> i got all these touristy pics on my g1.. statue of liberty, hoover dam, main strip of vegas.. hollywood sign in la etc
Dec 09 09:59:21 <snadge> oh and grand canyon hehe
Dec 09 09:59:34 <phyburn> is there any unlock codes for the G1?
Dec 09 09:59:44 <phyburn> I thought there was a site that was selling them to people
Dec 09 10:00:25 <Leeds> ssshhhh
Dec 09 10:00:40 <snadge> yeah its like $15 or something and you get it within 24 hours
Dec 09 10:02:30 <phyburn> do you know the site? =0
Dec 09 10:02:34 <snadge> i have a massive spliff pic as well.. california bud.. its legal there? lol
Dec 09 10:03:05 <spikebike> afaik massiv spliff pics are legal everywhere ;-)
Dec 09 10:03:46 <phyburn> snadge, do you know the site?
Dec 09 10:03:48 <sparkle> good thing too
Dec 09 10:05:06 <snadge> i was smoking the massive spliff tho
Dec 09 10:05:12 <snadge> http://www.unlock-tmobileg1.com/
Dec 09 10:05:37 <snadge> i am not affiliated with this site and know nothing about it by the way.. google gave me that link :P
Dec 09 10:05:47 <phyburn> ah okay
Dec 09 10:05:52 <phyburn> ima noob, I thought it would be hard to find =p
Dec 09 10:06:08 <snadge> im actually kind of interested in loading the dev boot loader onto mine
Dec 09 10:06:18 <snadge> i have an original RC28 image, so i should be able to do it
Dec 09 10:06:30 <phyburn> what I be able to load the dev boot loader after using an unlock code?
Dec 09 10:06:41 <snadge> as long as you havn't updated to the official RC30
Dec 09 10:06:43 <phyburn> or does it just unlock the service provider to enable you to use who ever
Dec 09 10:06:48 <phyburn> ahdamn
Dec 09 10:06:58 <phyburn> snadge, I have the offical RC30
Dec 09 10:07:05 <snadge> no doubt you will have to wait until they've found an exploit for that one
Dec 09 10:07:11 <snadge> which is probably just a matter of time
Dec 09 10:07:19 <phyburn> the unlock code wont work>
Dec 09 10:07:36 <snadge> unlocking the phone (sim unlock) and having root access are seperate things
Dec 09 10:07:46 <phyburn> ah okay
Dec 09 10:07:52 <phyburn> thats what I was wondering
Dec 09 10:07:59 <snadge> you dont really need root access, unless you intend to do things that t-mobile potentially doesnt want you to
Dec 09 10:08:02 <phyburn> pfff I don't care about SIM unlocking
Dec 09 10:08:20 <phyburn> I like t-mobiles service tbh
Dec 09 10:08:34 <snadge> like voice over ip, or tethering (which can work to a limited extent without root access)
Dec 09 10:09:12 <sparkle> or running a wais server
Dec 09 10:09:14 * sparkle laughs
Dec 09 10:09:46 <snadge> as i've discovered though, tetherbot, isn't exactly an optimal solution.. i can browse the web with it, after tweaking firefox.. but ssh over the proxy routinely drops out, unless you specifically forward a port.. which you can only do for one port, and one host at a time
Dec 09 10:10:40 <snadge> i want nat over bluetooth, wifi, or adb port :P
Dec 09 10:10:40 <tmzt> if they can flash a kernel, why not enable usb networking?
Dec 09 10:11:08 <Leeds> wais???
Dec 09 10:11:12 <snadge> i think we're miles away from that though.. the bluetooth api isn't complete, and potentially doesnt allow PAN support
Dec 09 10:11:15 <sparkle> the usb framework isn't comprehensive
Dec 09 10:11:28 <sparkle> it's being switched to the usb gadget framework for 2.6.27
Dec 09 10:11:39 <sparkle> at that point you'll be able to do something like usbnet easily
Dec 09 10:11:41 <tmzt> the java api? what do you mean
Dec 09 10:12:01 * sparkle chuckles
Dec 09 10:12:06 <sparkle> hi leeds
Dec 09 10:12:22 <Leeds> evening sparkie
Dec 09 10:12:31 <snadge> i see.. so both the bluetooth and usb support for networking is non existant.. that would explain the tethering problems
Dec 09 10:12:38 <snadge> and why nat only seems to work with wifi at the moment
Dec 09 10:13:15 <Leeds> mmm... archie
Dec 09 10:13:15 <Foxdie> whens that happening sparkle?
Dec 09 10:13:18 <Foxdie> the usb gadget framework
Dec 09 10:13:51 <sparkle> for the 2.6.27 merge
Dec 09 10:13:52 <spikebike> I've heard that HTC is having a stellar quarter despite a poor economy pretty much world wide
Dec 09 10:13:53 <Foxdie> and does anyone know whats happening with bluetooth? is it being developed? I'd like A2DP and PAN profiles :)
Dec 09 10:13:56 <spikebike> this bodes well for android ;-)
Dec 09 10:14:17 <sparkle> Leeds: i'm not really that bad, the weirdest stuff i run is kerberos and afs
Dec 09 10:14:40 <spikebike> has anyone seen a torrent client for android?
Dec 09 10:14:42 <sparkle> really, most everything that doesn't hit the hardware directly builds well
Dec 09 10:14:51 <Leeds> afs is pretty bad :-)
Dec 09 10:15:00 <sparkle> it's bloody awesome :D
Dec 09 10:15:04 <Leeds> Foxdie: there's pretty high demand
Dec 09 10:15:11 <tmzt> afs as in andrew filesystem?
Dec 09 10:15:15 <sparkle> yeah
Dec 09 10:15:16 <snadge> you could probably run rtorrent on android
Dec 09 10:15:19 <Foxdie> oh
Dec 09 10:15:22 <spikebike> sparkle assuming you install debian first I presume
Dec 09 10:15:23 <Foxdie> thought you meant apple filing system
Dec 09 10:15:30 <Foxdie> I was like BOYOOYOYOYOYING for a second
Dec 09 10:15:35 <Foxdie> because I work with macs every day
Dec 09 10:15:35 <sparkle> hah
Dec 09 10:15:38 <sparkle> you could do that too
Dec 09 10:15:42 <sparkle> i'm sure it would work
Dec 09 10:15:47 <tmzt> you need fuse for most of those
Dec 09 10:16:13 <spikebike> wow
Dec 09 10:16:15 <sparkle> ./kernel/fs/fuse/fuse.ko: ELF 32-bit LSB relocatable, ARM, version 1 (SYSV), not stripped
Dec 09 10:16:18 * sparkle nods
Dec 09 10:16:24 <snadge> tmobile would love that im sure.. people running torrents on their phones
Dec 09 10:16:29 <Leeds> hometime!
Dec 09 10:16:30 <spikebike> The coldest I've seen it this year has been 39F or so, it's 28!
Dec 09 10:16:54 <Foxdie> snadge, there could be a legitimate use for using it over wifi.. :)
Dec 09 10:16:54 <Leeds> about 17C here at the moment, overnight
Dec 09 10:17:00 <Foxdie> personally I can't see the point
Dec 09 10:17:16 <Foxdie> running a torrent would use a lot of cpu / networking and would kill battery life
Dec 09 10:17:27 <sparkle> spikebike: i think getting openafs to build against bionic would take years off of my life
Dec 09 10:19:01 <spikebike> heh
Dec 09 10:19:14 <spikebike> seems like a particularly pointless endeavor
Dec 09 10:19:18 * sparkle nods
Dec 09 10:19:27 <tmzt> it might be possible to install glibc then use /lib/ld-linux.so with special options to set the libraries used
Dec 09 10:19:46 <spikebike> now writing a lean java torrent client on the other hand ;-)
Dec 09 10:20:04 <sparkle> it's easiest just for me to have a pretty full debian framework
Dec 09 10:20:11 <sparkle> i mean, flash cards are big enough
Dec 09 10:20:28 <spikebike> ya
Dec 09 10:20:43 <sparkle> my main ext2 partition is 5gb and that's roomy
Dec 09 10:20:46 <spikebike> I got an 8GB just figuring the 16GB would be dirt cheap in a few months
Dec 09 10:20:49 * sparkle nods
Dec 09 10:21:15 <spikebike> that and I have a whole family of widgets that take sd
Dec 09 10:21:20 <spikebike> (d90, n800, etc.)
Dec 09 10:23:26 <dcordes> morning
Dec 09 10:24:25 <tmzt> dcordes: hi
Dec 09 10:25:02 <spikebike> kinda shocking that storage is so small today that you can lose it if you sneeze
Dec 09 10:26:21 <sparkle> gigabytes.
Dec 09 10:26:29 <sparkle> it's just so weird
Dec 09 10:26:38 <sparkle> when you grew up trading around 143K floppies
Dec 09 10:28:42 <Foxdie> I got an 8GB with my G1
Dec 09 10:29:02 <Foxdie> it was gonna come with a 2gb, but the t-mo website listed it with an 8, I talked them into upgrading it at a compromise for £15
Dec 09 10:29:09 <spikebike> heh
Dec 09 10:29:15 <Foxdie> not quite sure what I'm gonna put on it yet
Dec 09 10:29:24 <spikebike> mine came with 1, but I upgraded to 8
Dec 09 10:29:40 <spikebike> I've got minimal plans except for audio books and mp3s for traveling
Dec 09 10:29:53 <Foxdie> I wish I could install apps to it
Dec 09 10:29:58 <Foxdie> I don't plan on removing it
Dec 09 10:30:00 <spikebike> oh, and possibly maps if I can find some way to store them
Dec 09 10:30:06 <spikebike> do you have root?
Dec 09 10:30:09 <djc> I wonder what the dev phone will come with
Dec 09 10:31:22 <spikebike> then again my samsa 16 GB player is likely to be radically better on battery life
Dec 09 10:31:48 <tmzt> view or fuze?
Dec 09 10:32:14 <spikebike> view
Dec 09 10:32:36 <tmzt> you find how to make videos for that?
Dec 09 10:32:49 <spikebike> pretty sure handbrake can, never bothered
Dec 09 10:37:00 <Foxdie> I do have root yes
Dec 09 10:37:22 <Foxdie> I got lucky, the G1 I got was RC7, despite the t-mo agent saying they'd all been patched
Dec 09 10:38:37 <spikebike> ok
Dec 09 10:38:44 <spikebike> so storing apps on your sdcard is possible
Dec 09 10:41:41 <Foxdie> How so?
Dec 09 10:45:35 <spikebike> with root you can mont the sdcard with exec, make linkes, mount it wherever, etc.
Dec 09 10:46:23 <Foxdie> ahh, you mean move the binar{y,ies} to the SD card, and then symlink to them from their original folders
Dec 09 10:46:43 <spikebike> or just copy them over and mount them in place from the scdcard
Dec 09 10:47:01 <spikebike> whatever floats your boat
Dec 09 10:47:58 <Foxdie> :)
Dec 09 10:48:04 <Foxdie> oh matron ;)
Dec 09 10:57:51 <anno^da_> Is android:colorBackground="#B4000000"  the right way to change the background color of a LinearLayout?
Dec 09 10:59:15 <anno^da_> If I'm using overlay.setBackgroundColor(0xB4000000);  everything works fine. But not from the xml file :/
Dec 09 11:01:14 <djc> #B4000000 seems like an invalid color
Dec 09 11:01:28 <djc> it would be #b40000, I think?
Dec 09 11:02:40 <anno^da_> Well it works now :). B4 is the alpha value
Dec 09 11:02:55 <anno^da_> you have to use android:background="color"
Dec 09 11:03:13 <anno^da_> I dont know why colorBackground is possible as well but doesnt work
Dec 09 11:03:32 <anno^da_> 00 00 00 <- black B4 <- alpha
Dec 09 12:14:59 <blau-MikeDG> ugh ugh ugh
Dec 09 12:15:31 <blau-MikeDG> amazon honor system is stopping payments grrr
Dec 09 12:23:09 <blau-MikeDG> any suggestions for a simple donation system
Dec 09 12:24:45 <blau-MikeDG> paypal i guess
Dec 09 12:24:52 <djc> gcheckout?
Dec 09 12:29:13 <blau-MikeDG> grr i somehow broke my app sigh
Dec 09 12:32:45 <blau-MikeDG> something on my phone grrr
Dec 09 12:33:02 <blau-MikeDG> 12-09 07:30:51.121: ERROR/AndroidRuntime(7630): Caused by: android.database.StaleDataException: This cursor has changed, you must call requery()
Dec 09 12:42:14 <kennyyu> hi.. it seems to me https://dl-ssl.google.com/android/eclipse/  is not working?
Dec 09 12:45:17 <jammr> kennyyu use http and it'll work
Dec 09 12:49:07 <kennyyu> jammr: oh really?
Dec 09 12:49:09 * kennyyu is trying
Dec 09 12:51:36 <baccilus> when will it be available? I mean android.
Dec 09 12:51:56 <baccilus> Will I be able to install it on my SE K810i?
Dec 09 12:51:56 <kennyyu> jammr: it seems it doesn't work either ;)
Dec 09 12:52:16 <jammr> kennyyu you're doing the sdk setup, yes?
Dec 09 12:52:28 <kennyyu> jammr: yes
Dec 09 12:52:51 <jammr> they may be having issues on their end, I couldn't get https to work at all ever though
Dec 09 12:53:03 <kennyyu> hmm....
Dec 09 12:53:06 <baccilus> oops. I think this is for Devs only. Is it?
Dec 09 12:53:14 <kennyyu> so how about http protocol?
Dec 09 12:53:14 <jammr> but when I added it with http, it finds the https shortly afterwards
Dec 09 12:53:34 <kennyyu> hmm....
Dec 09 12:53:57 <kennyyu> in fact it worked before just a few minutes before
Dec 09 12:55:02 <kennyyu> baccilus: afaiu, android is a new linux-based OS for mobile phone
Dec 09 12:55:03 <kennyyu> s
Dec 09 12:56:29 <kennyyu> and there're already some mobile phones which are using android
Dec 09 12:58:02 <blau-MikeDG> anyone have a msi wind?
Dec 09 12:58:35 <baccilus> Yes I know that. That's why I came here. But will it be supported on all multimedia phones or selected few?
Dec 09 13:00:28 <djc> baccilus: it will be supported on phones which hardware for which there are drivers, or for which drivers are written
Dec 09 13:00:42 <djc> s/which/with
Dec 09 13:04:12 <baccilus> ok. Thanks. I hope it's available soon. All the best to you all.
Dec 09 13:06:33 <djc> baccilus: it won't be available soon for your vanilla phone
Dec 09 13:07:37 <baccilus> That's ok. My next phone will be an android phone for sure.
Dec 09 13:10:53 <djc> cool :)
Dec 09 13:11:08 <djc> I just ordered mine Sunday :)
Dec 09 13:12:32 <blau-MikeDG> i want a netbook
Dec 09 13:13:06 <blau-MikeDG> http://www.amazon.com/MSI-U100-432US-10-Inch-Netbook-Processor/dp/B001H0GEVG/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=pc&qid=1228828231&sr=1-1
Dec 09 13:18:09 <infernix> you can buy my 701
Dec 09 13:18:20 <infernix> i'll dust it off for you while i'm at it
Dec 09 13:18:58 <infernix> the only time i ever touch them is when i'm on holidays, that's it
Dec 09 13:19:41 <blau-MikeDG> it might be a waste i think i just want a toy
Dec 09 13:19:48 <blau-MikeDG> i have 2 works laptops and a macbook pro
Dec 09 13:19:53 <blau-MikeDG> and i just sold a 15" acer
Dec 09 13:19:57 <blau-MikeDG> that i had
Dec 09 13:20:09 <djc> heheh
Dec 09 13:20:34 <infernix> seriously, the keyboard is way too small to do any serious work
Dec 09 13:20:54 <infernix> you'll hurt yourself before you finish your first page of code
Dec 09 13:21:15 <blau-MikeDG> yeah i couldnt imagine using eclipse with all its windows and shit
Dec 09 13:21:35 <marix> blau-MikeDG,  too fancy for ya?
Dec 09 13:21:49 <blau-MikeDG> marix: on a 10" screen
Dec 09 13:21:54 <marix> ah
Dec 09 13:26:54 <iulianb> Hi all,
Dec 09 13:26:54 <iulianb> I encountered some strange behaviour when trying to set an ortographic projection in OpenGL (I think it's a bug, but I'm not sure).
Dec 09 13:26:54 <iulianb> Does anyone have experince in this field?
Dec 09 13:35:46 <brocktice> infernix, Typing on the 701 drives me batshit crazy.
Dec 09 13:36:04 <brocktice> That said, I think it'd make a cool Android machine. Waiting for the x86 code drop in git.
Dec 09 13:36:20 <infernix> maybe, but it has no touch
Dec 09 13:36:22 <djc> brocktice: there's code already?
Dec 09 13:36:23 <infernix> or did you mod it
Dec 09 13:36:36 <brocktice> djc, They have done it at google.
Dec 09 13:36:44 <brocktice> infernix, No, no touch.
Dec 09 13:36:52 <brocktice> Navigation might be interesting.
Dec 09 13:37:04 <brocktice> Although I hear touch mods are ~US$100?
Dec 09 13:37:17 <infernix> give or take
Dec 09 13:37:41 <infernix> got a 10k5 battery pack for it, which makes it fugly but durable
Dec 09 13:37:41 <brocktice> djc, A little birdie told me it'd be out this month.
Dec 09 13:38:00 <brocktice> infernix, I've been wondering about that. The battery life pathetic for such a small machine.
Dec 09 13:38:18 <infernix> i squeezed everything out with powertop
Dec 09 13:38:29 <infernix> going as far as not loading usb1 module
Dec 09 13:38:29 <brocktice> My father bought it but then got one of the new Atom-based machines. I offered to buy it off of him and instead I got it as a hand-me-down.
Dec 09 13:38:34 <brocktice> infernix, wow.
Dec 09 13:38:50 <hendry> where do i report a crashing bug on the Android G1 browser?
Dec 09 13:38:51 <infernix> but i should crack it and rip out the usb camera which is a power drain (prevents C3 sleep)
Dec 09 13:38:51 <brocktice> I guess, how often do you have something plugged in, right?
Dec 09 13:39:01 <brocktice> Ah, mine is the "surf" or whatever, no camera.
Dec 09 13:39:26 <brocktice> All I want are normally-placed shift keys, then it might be okay.
Dec 09 13:39:34 <infernix> but i wouldn't trade my debian sid setup for android on it
Dec 09 13:39:58 <brocktice> It chugs so bad with firefox... I suppose I could load a lighter browser.
Dec 09 13:40:08 <infernix> not too bad here with ff3 beta
Dec 09 13:40:10 <brocktice> I'm running Eeebuntu on it atm.
Dec 09 13:41:26 <blau-MikeDG> chrome rules
Dec 09 13:41:26 <infernix> no, i'd rather try and get android up on my kaiser/tilt/tytn 2
Dec 09 13:41:34 <blau-MikeDG> but windows only
Dec 09 13:41:46 <infernix> if the SD driver was stable it'd be on there already
Dec 09 13:43:39 <blau-MikeDG> id like android running on my desktop!
Dec 09 13:44:09 <brocktice> blau-MikeDG, Imagine a beowulf cluster of those...
Dec 09 13:44:11 * brocktice ducks
Dec 09 13:44:24 <djc> I wonder how hard that is...
Dec 09 13:44:25 <blau-MikeDG> a beowulf cluster of ducks
Dec 09 13:44:33 <djc> I mean, it's just a linux kernel, right?
Dec 09 13:44:40 <brocktice> djc, Totally not worth doing.
Dec 09 13:44:44 <djc> so get the display subsystem
Dec 09 13:44:50 <djc> brocktice: true, I'm just wondering :P
Dec 09 13:44:53 <brocktice> We run a Scyld beowulf cluster. The nodes have *nothing* running on them but the queuing system.
Dec 09 13:44:58 <brocktice> Nothing.
Dec 09 13:45:02 <brocktice> (and the kernel)
Dec 09 13:45:05 <infernix> brocktice: i've been meaning to try gOS on the 701
Dec 09 13:45:08 <brocktice> Helps keep cache coherency.
Dec 09 13:45:46 <infernix> but i somehow really doubt it can get any faster than it is already
Dec 09 13:45:52 <infernix> it boots to desktop in 15 seconds, xfce and all
Dec 09 13:45:53 <brocktice> OK, I lied
Dec 09 13:45:54 <brocktice> [brock@boh][Linux]-(~)-> bpsh 0 ps ax
Dec 09 13:45:54 <brocktice>   PID TTY      STAT   TIME COMMAND
Dec 09 13:45:54 <brocktice>  6386 ?        Ss     0:00 ssh-agent
Dec 09 13:45:54 <brocktice> 11740 ?        Ss     0:00 portmap
Dec 09 13:45:56 <brocktice> 26354 ?        R      0:00 ps ax
Dec 09 13:45:59 <brocktice> 31492 ?        Ss     0:00 /usr/sbin/rcmdd
Dec 09 13:46:01 <brocktice> 31741 ?        Ss   583:13 /usr/sbin/pbs_mom -c /var/spool/torque/mom_priv/config -l /var/spool/torque/mom_logs/0
Dec 09 13:46:05 <brocktice> ssh-agent isn't normally on there, I need to kick someone.
Dec 09 13:46:15 <brocktice> *almost* nothing.
Dec 09 13:46:32 <brocktice> Android would just be unnecessary overhead.
Dec 09 13:49:17 <scuzzo> hello
Dec 09 13:49:27 <brocktice> mornin
Dec 09 13:49:42 <scuzzo> brocktice: just ate a banana, hows your morning going?
Dec 09 13:49:53 <brocktice> just had two shots of espresso, so, well.
Dec 09 13:50:08 <michaelnovakjr> hm
Dec 09 13:51:58 <scuzzo> I am new to programming in general. I recently picked up basic python and starting a tiny game with pygame where I just got collision detection working. With that said I am not that experienced but I wanted to get a phone I can develop for. I was trying to see if the iphone or andorid would suit my position more. I saw the hello world tutorial for android and it was way over my head, maybe because it was in java. Should I 
Dec 09 13:52:19 <michaelnovakjr> scuzzo:
Dec 09 13:53:09 <scuzzo> sup
Dec 09 13:53:30 <brocktice> scuzzo, You can download the SDK and try hacking on the emulator for free.
Dec 09 13:53:31 <michaelnovakjr> should you what?
Dec 09 13:54:00 <michaelnovakjr> if you aren't familiar with Java, the book Effective Java is really good along with many others
Dec 09 13:54:19 <brocktice> That'll give you a feel for it. If your only experience or education programming is a little intro python you will have a lot to learn, but if you want to hack your phone it's good motivation.
Dec 09 13:54:52 <brocktice> I'm liking Head First Java so far as well. Didn't know or want to know java till I started working on Android stuff.
Dec 09 13:55:10 <michaelnovakjr> brocktice: i heard that was pretty good
Dec 09 13:55:23 <brocktice> michaelnovakjr, I'm very impressed by the head first books so far.
Dec 09 13:55:31 <michaelnovakjr> niice
Dec 09 13:55:32 <brocktice> I've got that and HF Design Patterns
Dec 09 13:55:58 <michaelnovakjr> Design Patterns is always a good choice of reading :)
Dec 09 13:56:48 <scuzzo> im eager to write my own applications basic tiny ones.....I like the idea of diving in but it seems that with android its really meant for people who are solid programmers. I kinda learned python thru messing with pygame. Dont know if I could do the same with android. From the helloworld tutorial definately seems not.
Dec 09 13:56:59 <michaelnovakjr> i think it's a bot
Dec 09 13:57:23 <brocktice> On mibbit?
Dec 09 13:57:37 <scuzzo> michaelnovakjr: are you ok?
Dec 09 13:57:57 <michaelnovakjr> brocktice: unfortunately there were a few from there yesterday
Dec 09 13:58:04 <brocktice> hm
Dec 09 13:58:09 <eldenz> is there an official "Stereo 3.5mm Audio Converter w/ microphone and pause/advance button" from htc/t-mobile for the g1?
Dec 09 13:58:54 <michaelnovakjr> i don't think a converter.... i haven't tried other headphones with a mic
Dec 09 13:58:54 <djc> scuzzo: I'm also researching on how to get Python running on Android
Dec 09 13:59:18 <djc> there's Jythondroid already, btw
Dec 09 13:59:52 <brocktice> djc, How's that work?
Dec 09 14:00:04 <scuzzo> djc: is objective-C easier to pick up than java for a python person?
Dec 09 14:00:06 <eldenz> the mic isn't really important for me.. would be nice though. but adapter for my 3.5mm headphones with a wired remote that can pause/advance!
Dec 09 14:00:27 <djc> brocktice: I think you generate .class from Jython, then convert that using .dex (with some help, I guess)
Dec 09 14:00:38 <michaelnovakjr> i ordered headphones, when they came one earphone was shorting out
Dec 09 14:00:42 <michaelnovakjr> definitely annoyed
Dec 09 14:01:04 <brocktice> anyone know the G1's dpi offhand?
Dec 09 14:01:21 <djc> brocktice: no, but I'd be interested to hear that :)
Dec 09 14:01:30 * brocktice gets out a ruler
Dec 09 14:02:05 <brocktice> it's 1 and 3/4 by 2 and 5/8 ...
Dec 09 14:02:47 <brocktice> 183
Dec 09 14:02:57 <brocktice> Really 182.85714285714285714285
Dec 09 14:03:22 <djc> so, 180ish
Dec 09 14:03:39 <brocktice> Yeah I measured the actual lit part of the screen
Dec 09 14:04:42 <michaelnovakjr> iPhone is 160
Dec 09 14:05:27 <brocktice> Take that, iPhone!
Dec 09 14:06:05 <scuzzo> michaelnovakjr: is the effect java book meant for experienced coders or a newb could use that book as well?
Dec 09 14:09:24 <neerhaj> how much is the ppi of the G1 screen ?
Dec 09 14:11:48 <joeyjones> heh
Dec 09 14:14:15 <Dougie187> neerhaj: can't you figure it out?
Dec 09 14:14:50 <Dougie187> its a 3.2 inch screen with 320*480
Dec 09 14:16:59 <brocktice> 183
Dec 09 14:17:09 <brocktice> No reason to reinvent the wheel
Dec 09 14:17:27 <brocktice> Or invoke the Pythagorean Theorem
Dec 09 14:17:49 <brocktice> Also, I'm happy to report that the G1 does in fact have square pixels.
Dec 09 14:17:58 <brocktice> Evenly spaced
Dec 09 14:18:08 <BlindOracle> scuzzo: python has many OO-language features which makes java blush. If you're just now learning a language, and want to code for android, I suggest you stop with Python as it may very well make you jaded.
Dec 09 14:18:18 <brocktice> hah
Dec 09 14:18:33 <BlindOracle> Speaking of which, is coding for Android possible with any language other than java?
Dec 09 14:18:49 <michaelnovakjr> yes, unofficially
Dec 09 14:19:00 <BlindOracle> c++ by any chance?
Dec 09 14:19:04 <BlindOracle> and FAQs available?
Dec 09 14:19:13 <michaelnovakjr> i wrote a hello world app in C
Dec 09 14:19:23 <michaelnovakjr> it was a while ago though
Dec 09 14:19:30 <brocktice> BlindOracle, It's just Linux on ARM. However, what libraries and such go there are... I believe undocumented?
Dec 09 14:19:38 <Sembiance> mmm.. android.
Dec 09 14:19:43 * Sembiance is looking forward to a new phone.
Dec 09 14:20:10 <Disconnect> for interaction with the user, you still need java
Dec 09 14:20:25 <BlindOracle> brocktice: really? I thought it had to target the VM. You can create ARM apps which are invoked through the VM environment?
Dec 09 14:20:34 <brocktice> BlindOracle, No.
Dec 09 14:20:46 <brocktice> Like Disconnect said, user interaction still requires Java
Dec 09 14:20:53 <brocktice> Unless they're using Term.apk
Dec 09 14:20:54 <BlindOracle> normal arm cross compiler will work...assuming the libs can be figured out
Dec 09 14:21:14 <BlindOracle> brocktice: I see...so something like JNI is required to cross the divide?
Dec 09 14:21:21 <brocktice> Who was it that was compiling apps natively the other day?
Dec 09 14:21:32 <michaelnovakjr> its pretty easy
Dec 09 14:21:39 <brocktice> I mean, on the device.
Dec 09 14:21:42 <scuzzo> BlindOracle: thanks
Dec 09 14:21:50 <michaelnovakjr> a simple google search reveals many tutorials
Dec 09 14:22:02 <michaelnovakjr> its good stuff :)
Dec 09 14:22:10 <Disconnect> SanMehat: native code
Dec 09 14:22:13 <BlindOracle> and those can be tested on the emulator. I say that, because I don't know what the emulator actually emulates...the VM or the whole machine
Dec 09 14:22:18 <Disconnect> ...damn. stupid broken bot.
Dec 09 14:22:19 <brocktice> infobot was way more useful
Dec 09 14:22:22 <Disconnect> yah
Dec 09 14:22:28 <Disconnect> but infobot did public logging.
Dec 09 14:22:43 <Disconnect> the new bot was useful (once i changed the name) and didn't do public logging.
Dec 09 14:22:47 <Dougie187> why can't the logging be public?
Dec 09 14:22:58 <Disconnect> cuz its just a bad idea all around.
Dec 09 14:23:13 <Dougie187> what's bad about it?
Dec 09 14:23:20 <Disconnect> although i'm prolly gonna put my logs into a searchable index soon so we can stop having to look shit up all the time now that the bots are gone.
Dec 09 14:23:26 <brocktice> It has the benefit of making all of the info here googleable
Dec 09 14:23:28 <Dougie187> i mean, if they are logging it anyways, it would be useful for us.
Dec 09 14:23:32 <BlindOracle> scuzzo: keep in mind that comment was slightly tongue and cheek. But if you are new to programming, and your focus is OO, python will likely make you jadded if your world suddenly becomes java.
Dec 09 14:23:35 <Disconnect> thats not a benefit to everyone
Dec 09 14:23:45 <michaelnovakjr> BlindOracle: its a bot
Dec 09 14:23:55 <brocktice> michaelnovakjr, I'm starting to think you're right.
Dec 09 14:23:59 <michaelnovakjr> :)
Dec 09 14:24:12 <BlindOracle> hehe
Dec 09 14:24:14 <brocktice> At first I thought you were paranoid about bots but now I'm starting to think your bot-sense has some teeth.
Dec 09 14:24:22 <michaelnovakjr> indeed
Dec 09 14:24:43 <michaelnovakjr> the language and responses are off... that's a good indicator
Dec 09 14:24:53 <BlindOracle> :P
Dec 09 14:24:53 <Disconnect> michaelnovakjr: are you gonna step up to answer faq's and give urls all day?
Dec 09 14:25:08 <michaelnovakjr> Disconnect: sure :)
Dec 09 14:25:15 <Disconnect> cuz SanMehat dropped the ball pretty bad on that
Dec 09 14:25:18 <brocktice> michaelnovakjr, yeah but that could just be ESL sometimes.
Dec 09 14:25:32 <brocktice> the language more than the content
Dec 09 14:25:34 <Disconnect> michaelnovakjr: tell BlindOracle about native code
Dec 09 14:25:40 <michaelnovakjr> brocktice: sometimes, but usually those response sound more human :)
Dec 09 14:26:23 <scuzzo> BlindOracle: I started with python since many people said its good for people new to programming. I started with it and I didnt get as stuck as much as I did when trying C. My passion if games and I tried pygame and that is going pretty well too. What I keep thinking about is that if I dropped python and started java, is that I will get stuck often and java never seemed that fun to use compared to writing in python. I am g
Dec 09 14:26:26 <Disconnect> damnit this bot is broken too. and it speaks without being addressed.
Dec 09 14:26:35 <michaelnovakjr> this one is yours?
Dec 09 14:26:54 <BlindOracle> scuzzo: python is an excellent learning language - and its interactive capabilities is first class.
Dec 09 14:27:32 <michaelnovakjr> BlindOracle: http://www.codesourcery.com/gnu_toolchains/arm/portal/subscription?@template=lite
Dec 09 14:27:37 <michaelnovakjr> that's the compiler i used
Dec 09 14:27:47 * BlindOracle is looking
Dec 09 14:27:59 <michaelnovakjr> adb push will get your binary on the device/emulator
Dec 09 14:28:09 <Disconnect> michaelnovakjr: no. you. you said you'd offer up faqs and urls.
Dec 09 14:28:31 <BlindOracle> michaelnovakjr: cool. That based on a modern c/c++ gnu toolchain? Supports templates?
Dec 09 14:29:30 <michaelnovakjr> BlindOracle: it is based on the gnu toolchain
Dec 09 14:29:37 <michaelnovakjr> as far as templates i'm not 100% sure
Dec 09 14:29:45 <BlindOracle> michaelnovakjr: ok.
Dec 09 14:30:05 <BlindOracle> EABI is the target?
Dec 09 14:30:05 <michaelnovakjr> Disconnect: btw i'm creating an android faq don't worry :)
Dec 09 14:30:15 <Disconnect> so are lots of people.
Dec 09 14:30:28 <Disconnect> that doesn't make url pointers and quick info any less useful
Dec 09 14:30:28 <Dougie187> but michaelnovakjr's is going to be the best.
Dec 09 14:30:31 <Dougie187> didn't you know that?
Dec 09 14:30:52 <michaelnovakjr> haha
Dec 09 14:31:13 <michaelnovakjr> and SanMehat didn't drop the ball at all yesterday
Dec 09 14:31:22 <michaelnovakjr> he was coding all day, and that happens :)
Dec 09 14:31:36 <Disconnect> oh? never got any factoids or urls. (after he came back and said he'd fill in..)
Dec 09 14:31:49 <BlindOracle> michaelnovakjr: EABI is the proper target I assume?
Dec 09 14:31:58 <michaelnovakjr> one sec
Dec 09 14:33:55 <michaelnovakjr> BlindOracle: yes it is
Dec 09 14:34:00 <michaelnovakjr> i had someone at my desk :)
Dec 09 14:34:07 <BlindOracle> michaelnovakjr: great...downloading now...
Dec 09 14:36:35 <BlindOracle> the g1 has gps and agps right?
Dec 09 14:36:45 <michaelnovakjr> it has gps
Dec 09 14:37:30 <BlindOracle> how good is gps reception...and does it have three axis gps support or only 2-axis?
Dec 09 14:38:56 <michaelnovakjr> its pretty good
Dec 09 14:39:08 <michaelnovakjr> its got my location right now pinned correctly
Dec 09 14:39:17 <Milad> is any support for Persian font's in android browser ? I can't see chars in my emulator
Dec 09 14:39:22 <BlindOracle> michaelnovakjr: so no problem with reception in a car or maybe a small plane?
Dec 09 14:39:42 <michaelnovakjr> i've used it in the car and it was good, but not a plane :)
Dec 09 14:40:08 <BlindOracle> michaelnovakjr: and it has 3-axis support (long, lat and elevation)?
Dec 09 14:40:35 <michaelnovakjr> i'm not sure about the elevation
Dec 09 14:42:09 <BlindOracle> hmmm, looks like the API doesn't even support elevation. http://code.google.com/android/reference/android/location/Address.html
Dec 09 14:42:18 <BlindOracle> michaelnovakjr: am I missing something?
Dec 09 14:44:53 <michaelnovakjr> i don't think the support is there for it
Dec 09 14:45:44 <blau-MikeDG> anyone know a way to update a notification without resending?
Dec 09 14:45:56 <michaelnovakjr> update how?
Dec 09 14:46:14 <BlindOracle> I found Location has support for: getAltitude(), hasAltitude(), setAltitude(double altitude), etc...so API support is at least in place...
Dec 09 14:46:15 <BlindOracle> 	
Dec 09 14:46:22 <michaelnovakjr> nice
Dec 09 14:46:23 <blau-MikeDG> change the text ?
Dec 09 14:47:11 <BlindOracle> michaelnovakjr: but no idea if the hardware on the g1 supports 3-axis?
Dec 09 14:47:27 <michaelnovakjr> what about setLatestEventInfo blau-MikeDG ?
Dec 09 14:47:38 <michaelnovakjr> BlindOracle: not 100% sure
Dec 09 14:47:41 <blau-MikeDG> yeah that probably works :)
Dec 09 14:48:01 <blau-MikeDG> duh
Dec 09 14:48:04 <blau-MikeDG> lemme look into it
Dec 09 14:48:24 <michaelnovakjr> you could check out the Music app source, it updates the notification with the current playing song
Dec 09 14:48:30 <michaelnovakjr> if you want an example
Dec 09 14:49:01 <blau-MikeDG> actually i think what im doing works fine for what i need it for
Dec 09 14:49:10 <BlindOracle> michaelnovakjr: a music app uses altitude?
Dec 09 14:49:26 <michaelnovakjr> sorry BlindOracle that was for blau-MikeDG
Dec 09 15:00:18 <tauno> have you ever seen hardware that does not support altitude? I don't think there is such primitive hardware available at all :P
Dec 09 15:00:43 <michaelnovakjr> i guess not then :)
Dec 09 15:00:51 <omegatest> Hi
Dec 09 15:00:58 <michaelnovakjr> hello
Dec 09 15:04:38 <SeanAmbers> Is this a google operated channel?
Dec 09 15:06:03 <AstainHellbring> o
Dec 09 15:06:07 <AstainHellbring> SeanAmbers no
Dec 09 15:06:35 <SeanAmbers> ok, thanks, i guess there isnt any at all?
Dec 09 15:07:02 <Disconnect> actually, pretty much yes it is
Dec 09 15:07:05 <michaelnovakjr> there's lots of developers here, if you are looking for help
Dec 09 15:07:23 <Disconnect> its not an enduser support channel tho
Dec 09 15:07:27 <marix> none of the ops are google employees though
Dec 09 15:07:36 <omegatest> I need to use xml (files can be large, up to 4Mb) should I use SAX or DOM?
Dec 09 15:07:37 <omegatest> And is it wise to pick the relevant data (about 60%) store it in a database and get rid of the xml files?
Dec 09 15:07:37 <michaelnovakjr> marix: huh?
Dec 09 15:07:58 <michaelnovakjr> marix they are from google
Dec 09 15:08:21 <Disconnect> marix: ...wtf?
Dec 09 15:08:23 <Dougie187> lol
Dec 09 15:08:29 <Dougie187> all of the ops are google employees.
Dec 09 15:08:32 <marix> guys seriously,  keep it on the dl
Dec 09 15:08:36 <michaelnovakjr> haha
Dec 09 15:08:40 <mypapit> wtf?
Dec 09 15:08:46 <michaelnovakjr> its pretty obvious guys
Dec 09 15:08:52 <marix> blew my cover
Dec 09 15:09:18 <Dougie187> sure... cover... thats what you call it.
Dec 09 15:09:19 <AstainHellbring> espically that ChanServ guy
Dec 09 15:09:28 <SeanAmbers> ok thanks guys
Dec 09 15:09:33 <marix> I wonder what a google support irc room would be like
Dec 09 15:14:07 <mpardo> stupid question maybe, but can i import javax?
Dec 09 15:14:49 <michaelnovakjr> what in javax?
Dec 09 15:15:35 <mpardo> i'm pretty sure the answer is no because of android hardware limitations, but i want to use AudioInputStream
Dec 09 15:15:36 <scuzzo> do a lot of you guys experience many times where you dont have 3g service? such as going out of your state?
Dec 09 15:15:58 <BlindOracle> cool, that arm compiler is based on 4.3.2 - templates shouldn't be a problem
Dec 09 15:16:09 <michaelnovakjr> :)
Dec 09 15:17:05 <michaelnovakjr> mpardo: http://code.google.com/android/reference/classes.html this is what's available
Dec 09 15:17:12 <Disconnect> scuzzo: i live outside 3g, work inside
Dec 09 15:17:21 <michaelnovakjr> Disconnect: :) that's a bot
Dec 09 15:17:41 <scuzzo> and when you dont have 3g service it drops to edge or what?
Dec 09 15:17:51 <Disconnect> well then you'd better get with the kickbanning, hey?
Dec 09 15:17:57 <Disconnect> scuzzo: edge or wifi yah
Dec 09 15:18:01 <michaelnovakjr> i'm not an op
Dec 09 15:18:11 <scuzzo> thanks
Dec 09 15:18:23 <Dougie187> I am sure he appreciates being called a bot too.
Dec 09 15:18:27 <michaelnovakjr> :)
Dec 09 15:18:29 <Dougie187> lol
Dec 09 15:18:34 <scuzzo> :*(
Dec 09 15:18:37 <michaelnovakjr> its obviously hurting his feelings
Dec 09 15:18:45 <scuzzo> mudda chokas
Dec 09 15:18:56 <Dougie187> i bet he's not programmed to respond nicely to begin called a bot.
Dec 09 15:19:03 <Dougie187> being*
Dec 09 15:19:11 <Foxdie> ooooooh
Dec 09 15:19:17 <Foxdie> its so nice showing iphone users my G1
Dec 09 15:19:22 <Foxdie> they get all jealous >:)
Dec 09 15:19:31 <Disconnect> do they laugh and fall down when you hit home and have to wait 20 seconds for it to respond?
Dec 09 15:19:38 <Disconnect> cuz thats the reaction i usually get.
Dec 09 15:19:48 <BlindOracle> lol
Dec 09 15:19:53 <Disconnect> it was funny watching them fall down for a while but that gets old
Dec 09 15:19:59 <kIDDAI> mine responds in less than a second
Dec 09 15:20:14 <Foxdie> they were surprised how fast the browser was
Dec 09 15:20:31 <Foxdie> much faster for some reason
Dec 09 15:20:34 <brocktice> Seriously, there must be some way to speed up the home screen loading.
Dec 09 15:20:39 <Foxdie> whether it be for better coding, or t-mo has a better 3G network than o2
Dec 09 15:20:45 <BlindOracle> btw, who/where do you report bugs. I believe the emulator's browser crashes simply going to a website's main page
Dec 09 15:20:54 <michaelnovakjr> Foxdie: lots of people have the iPhone
Dec 09 15:20:55 <marix> did you show them the amazing keyboard with RealButton^tm technology?
Dec 09 15:21:04 <BlindOracle> marix: realbutton tech...
Dec 09 15:21:08 <BlindOracle> hehe...that's nice
Dec 09 15:21:09 <michaelnovakjr> Foxdie: that probably contributes to network speed
Dec 09 15:21:18 <brocktice> Plus apparently egyptian iphone users no longer have GPS.
Dec 09 15:21:26 <Foxdie> possibly. but then LOTS of t-mo phones support 3G these days
Dec 09 15:21:30 <Dougie187> michaelnovakjr: yeah and noone uses tmobile...
Dec 09 15:21:41 <Foxdie> I just think t-mo invested more money in the right place
Dec 09 15:21:51 <BlindOracle> wish like heck t-mo didn't use diff 3g freq than att
Dec 09 15:21:56 <Foxdie> o2 should have stuck to being BT CellNet and then subsequently just as BT, ie. landlines
Dec 09 15:21:56 <michaelnovakjr> Dougie187: certainly not has much as ATT, especially where I am in NY
Dec 09 15:21:57 <SanMehat> morning
Dec 09 15:22:25 <michaelnovakjr> morning
Dec 09 15:26:49 <scuzzo> what java book again would be the best for someone to start learning how to develop for android? a book that doesnt require a solid programming background would be nice...
Dec 09 15:27:10 <blau-MikeDG> android is quite different from normal java
Dec 09 15:27:13 <blau-MikeDG> id just jump in
Dec 09 15:27:29 <tric> blau: it is? i dont think so.
Dec 09 15:27:37 <tric> why do you think its different?
Dec 09 15:27:40 <scuzzo> yea but I am still new to programming and the hello world tutorial was way over my head
Dec 09 15:27:41 <blau-MikeDG> intents, activities
Dec 09 15:27:45 <blau-MikeDG> all the xml
Dec 09 15:28:19 <blau-MikeDG> even the permissions
Dec 09 15:28:22 <tric> blau: thats only a framework issue. Java is a Programming Language.
Dec 09 15:28:55 <blau-MikeDG> ok, android's frameworks are quite diferen from what any java book will teach you
Dec 09 15:28:56 <Disconnect> yah seriously. learn java, then learn android.
Dec 09 15:29:26 <Disconnect> 90% of your code has nothing to do with android framework. (more, if you include that java language is the syntax as well..)
Dec 09 15:29:28 <tric> blau: a java book for beginners will fit for scuzzo i think.
Dec 09 15:29:40 <tric> disconnect: exactly
Dec 09 15:29:44 <scuzzo> thanks but is there any common java book that fits this scenario well especially for android
Dec 09 15:29:59 <scuzzo> ok cool so any basic java intro book
Dec 09 15:30:42 <kIDDAI>  http://commonsware.com/Android/index.html
Dec 09 15:30:45 <kIDDAI> android book
Dec 09 15:30:50 <blau-MikeDG> grr my sms contentobserver isnt picking up changes, only inserts it seems like
Dec 09 15:30:56 <kIDDAI> but i guess, mailing groups are better
Dec 09 15:31:09 <scuzzo> thanks kIDDAI
Dec 09 15:31:22 <blau-MikeDG> ive heard bad things about that book
Dec 09 15:31:28 <scuzzo> lol
Dec 09 15:31:55 <Disconnect> ..like it starts from an assumption that you know java?
Dec 09 15:32:12 <blau-MikeDG> that is basically regurgitates whats in the google docs and is ripe with mistakes
Dec 09 15:32:14 <Disconnect> seriously, just look for a "learn to program with java" book that teaches in the way you learn
Dec 09 15:32:17 <Disconnect> well that too
Dec 09 15:32:29 <blau-MikeDG> lemme see if i can find a reference for that though
Dec 09 15:32:40 <vol> scuzzo: java.sun.com/docs/books/tutorial/
Dec 09 15:32:46 <scuzzo> yoshta! thanks
Dec 09 15:32:49 <vol> (if someone hasn't said it already)
Dec 09 15:32:58 <vol> sun's java tutorials are very good
Dec 09 15:33:07 <Disconnect> vol: in an intro-to-programming kind of way?
Dec 09 15:33:14 <vol> yes
Dec 09 15:33:18 <vol> at least I think so
Dec 09 15:33:22 <vol> they introduce OO
Dec 09 15:33:29 <vol> the only problem is that they don't give you any exercises
Dec 09 15:33:38 <vol> though they do provide example code
Dec 09 15:33:56 <vol> there are a ton of java books scuzzo can use, anyway
Dec 09 15:34:32 <vol> also, with the sale of the pre-rooted phones, does that mean that devs can get appointments to come to Elgoog's NYC offices and get someone to root our phone? ; 0
Dec 09 15:34:35 <vol> ; ) rather
Dec 09 15:34:36 <marix> did you guys get the gfindster folks banned?
Dec 09 15:35:25 <Disconnect> vol: sure, if you buy it from them.
Dec 09 15:35:38 <vol> :\
Dec 09 15:35:43 <vol> I mean a phone I already have.
Dec 09 15:35:56 <vol> I have my phone, and we bought a couple phones at the office to do dev work on
Dec 09 15:36:04 <Disconnect> right. you bought them from tmobile.
Dec 09 15:36:04 <vol> which arrived (or should have arrived) yesterday
Dec 09 15:36:07 <vol> so, yeah, good timing.
Dec 09 15:36:15 <Disconnect> regardless of teh fact that goog rebranded the same htc device as the adp1.
Dec 09 15:36:28 <vol> I just want an excuse to go to NYC :3
Dec 09 15:38:22 <marix> http://www.javaomatic.com/  This is a decent site w/ vids for getting comfy w/ java programming in eclipse
Dec 09 15:38:30 <scuzzo> thanks
Dec 09 15:38:52 <marix> its cut short as the author hasn't updated in a few years, but should atleast get you past hello world
Dec 09 15:40:39 <tauno> if (!mJbqPresent) startParty();
Dec 09 15:41:15 <brocktice_afk> while (!mJbqPresent) { this->dances; }
Dec 09 15:41:19 <vol> o\-<
Dec 09 15:41:21 <vol> o>-<
Dec 09 15:41:24 <vol> o/-<
Dec 09 15:41:26 <vol> o|-<
Dec 09 15:41:32 <vol> o<-<
Dec 09 15:41:35 <vol> o/-<
Dec 09 15:41:41 <vol> o>-|
Dec 09 15:41:43 <brocktice_afk>  /o/
Dec 09 15:41:43 <Disconnect> ...speaking of kickbans
Dec 09 15:41:45 <Dougie187> michaelnovakjr: i think vol is a bot.
Dec 09 15:41:46 <vol> haha
Dec 09 15:41:48 <brocktice_afk>  \o\
Dec 09 15:43:00 <michaelnovakjr> Dougie187: childish is accurate
Dec 09 15:43:11 <Dougie187> lol
Dec 09 15:43:17 <vol> probably
Dec 09 15:45:20 <tauno> michaelnovakjr, yeah.. I know that you would like this channel to be totally on-topic only but..I don't think that will happen anymore :/
Dec 09 15:45:26 <BlindOracle> michaelnovakjr: the compilers (c/c++) are compiling for me but none actually like. It is like the standard libs are not found.
Dec 09 15:45:46 <michaelnovakjr> BlindOracle: the library support is limited
Dec 09 15:45:49 <michaelnovakjr> that's the catch
Dec 09 15:46:19 <BlindOracle> read/write/abort/exit/seek/close are not part of the libraries???
Dec 09 15:46:35 <vol> they should be
Dec 09 15:46:40 <vol> check the linker stage?
Dec 09 15:46:43 <BlindOracle> normally, standard bootstrap should include those
Dec 09 15:46:45 <vol> make sure it's pointing to the libs :\
Dec 09 15:47:12 <michaelnovakjr> BlindOracle: ^^ what he said
Dec 09 15:48:44 <mpardo> what's the intent to call a number?
Dec 09 15:48:48 <mpardo> uri
Dec 09 15:49:35 <mpardo> tel:5555555555?
Dec 09 15:51:15 <BlindOracle> something other than "arm-none-eabi-gcc -O0 -g -o t t.c" required to compile a simple test where source file is "t.c"?
Dec 09 15:51:34 <BlindOracle> looks like it's finding the lib...just not the requires symbols
Dec 09 15:52:37 <BlindOracle> as if a reference to a second library is not included
Dec 09 15:55:25 <vol> BlindOracle: -L /path/to/shared/libs/goes/here ?
Dec 09 15:55:50 <blau-MikeDG> anyone know the intent to open the messaging app to a certain thread?
Dec 09 15:56:42 <BlindOracle> vol: it's finding .../lib/libc.a but still getting unresolved symbols during link. Compiling does produce an object. I wouldn't expect to have to use -L unless I was linking additional libs...this is basically a hello world
Dec 09 15:57:02 <michaelnovakjr> BlindOracle: are you building with the -static flag?
Dec 09 15:57:08 <BlindOracle> readr.c:(.text+0x20): undefined reference to `_read'
Dec 09 15:57:12 <BlindOracle> click...I bet that's it
Dec 09 15:58:08 <BlindOracle> nope...didn't do it
Dec 09 15:58:16 <BlindOracle> ...but I wasn't using -static
Dec 09 15:58:30 <Disconnect> http://honeypod.blogspot.com/2007/12/dynamically-linked-hello-world-for.html
Dec 09 15:58:41 <Disconnect> we'd have had that link an hour ago if we still had a bot
Dec 09 15:58:50 <vol> o>-\
Dec 09 15:58:57 <vol> I mean... nevermind.
Dec 09 15:59:07 <michaelnovakjr> yea and 100 people abusing it
Dec 09 15:59:30 <Disconnect> ...right. that happened once, and it was 1.5 people. nice try though.
Dec 09 15:59:45 <Disconnect> (in fact, i'm not sure why the ratelimit didn't kick in)
Dec 09 15:59:58 <BlindOracle> thanks...that's likely the missing pieces. Looks like entry points must be manually defined...which seems to mirror some of the missing symbols...I'll check that out Disconnect
Dec 09 16:00:53 <Disconnect> "omg people are gonna abuse it and we can't stop them. by warning them. or silencing them. or banning them. or telling the bot to ignore them. OMG its the end of the wWORLD!@!!!@##1eleventy!!!"
Dec 09 16:01:32 <Leeds> Disconnect: relax
Dec 09 16:01:38 <marix> lets all join the ##1eleventy!!!" room
Dec 09 16:01:41 <Leeds> stop moaning about the lack of bot
Dec 09 16:01:42 <SanMehat> Disconnect: we get it. you want your bot back. talk to Dan.
Dec 09 16:01:58 <SanMehat> actually i'm still waiting for dan to wake up.. then i'll speak to him.
Dec 09 16:01:59 <Disconnect> SanMehat: i don't actually care what bot comes back.
Dec 09 16:02:04 <SanMehat> i know
Dec 09 16:02:07 <SanMehat> you just want 'a' bot.
Dec 09 16:02:22 <Disconnect> i'd love a bot that didn't talk out of turn and wasn't full of 1.1 million useless bits of info :) but..
Dec 09 16:02:44 <Leeds> lots of those factoids aren't - or weren't, at some point - useless
Dec 09 16:02:53 <Disconnect> an arbitrary decision was made based on one guy complaining..
Dec 09 16:02:56 <Leeds> but the bot has been around for many years, on many channels
Dec 09 16:03:02 <Disconnect> Leeds: have you -seen- the database?
Dec 09 16:03:17 <Leeds> did you notice when I was added to it?
Dec 09 16:03:40 <Disconnect> i was hacking through it when it was mostly #handhelds.org about 8-10 years ago, and even then (500k or so) it was mostly useless. i wiped out 100k items or more in a few days before i found better things to do with my time :)
Dec 09 16:04:18 <Disconnect> it has useful info, but you can't say the SnR on 1.1 million factoids is anywhere near 50%. or even 25%. (i'd be amazed at 5% even)
Dec 09 16:04:34 <Leeds> sure, but so what?  it's a bot, not a knowledge base
Dec 09 16:04:57 <vol> I joined ##1eleventy!!! but no one was there : (
Dec 09 16:05:18 <mins> hi
Dec 09 16:05:52 <Disconnect> it spent way too many years on "listen to everything" mode..
Dec 09 16:06:01 <BlindOracle> That example has "-L ~/tmp/android/system/lib" in it. Where does the android/system/lib stuff come from? Is this part of the SDK or part of the android kernel/system environment? If the later I assume I can get that from the android repository?
Dec 09 16:06:29 <mins> just a newbie trying to learn on the android platform
Dec 09 16:06:48 <Leeds> again, so what?
Dec 09 16:07:30 <mins> may i ask a question
Dec 09 16:07:33 <SanMehat> mins: have you read the docs?
Dec 09 16:07:36 <SanMehat> mins: sure. shoot.
Dec 09 16:07:45 <Disconnect> Leeds: lots of those factoids aren't - or weren't, at some point - useless <--- i disagree, thats all.
Dec 09 16:07:54 <mins> read the docs?
Dec 09 16:07:56 <Leeds> but why does that matter?
Dec 09 16:08:12 <Leeds> mins: we're all waiting to answer your question - all 277 of us :-)
Dec 09 16:08:19 <SanMehat> mins: ask your question.. :)
Dec 09 16:08:47 <mins> first whats the docs?
Dec 09 16:08:52 <BlindOracle> michaelnovakjr, vol: That example has "-L ~/tmp/android/system/lib" in it. Where does the android/system/lib stuff come from? Is this part of the SDK or part of the android kernel/system environment? If the later I assume I can get that from the android repository?
Dec 09 16:08:54 <SanMehat> documentation
Dec 09 16:09:16 <Disconnect> ok maybe SanMehat will be an ok bot after all
Dec 09 16:09:19 <mins> yes but what docs where?
Dec 09 16:09:23 <Disconnect> overly literal? check :)
Dec 09 16:09:52 <Leeds> mins: we don't know what sort of documentation you want yet... OS-level, appdev-level, user-level?
Dec 09 16:10:07 <SanMehat> mins google for 'Android SDk documentation'
Dec 09 16:10:40 <mins> ty
Dec 09 16:10:45 <Leeds> how odd
Dec 09 16:11:17 <BlindOracle> hmm...and according to the comments there, I should be using the GNU/Linux toolchain, not the EABI-Linux toolchain.
Dec 09 16:12:04 <mins> my question was, does the android or can thwe g1 be gotten to work in any irc
Dec 09 16:12:21 <loke> mins: why wouldn't it?
Dec 09 16:12:25 <mins> sorry fat fingers
Dec 09 16:12:30 <Leeds> IRC?
Dec 09 16:12:48 <mins> yes IRC
Dec 09 16:12:58 <mins> sorry again
Dec 09 16:12:59 <Leeds> so you are asking about an IRC client for Android?
Dec 09 16:13:04 <Disconnect> he's asking about mibbit
Dec 09 16:13:11 <mins> i giess
Dec 09 16:13:13 <Disconnect> wnat to cut down the snr here, ban mibbit...
Dec 09 16:13:18 <Disconnect> er improve that is :)
Dec 09 16:13:30 <mins> im new at this so i dont know what i need to ask
Dec 09 16:14:20 <mins> in lay
Dec 09 16:14:24 <marix> that hurst disconnect
Dec 09 16:14:26 <mins> grrrrr
Dec 09 16:14:33 <Disconnect> you are in a developer channel. i think you need a user forum.
Dec 09 16:14:48 <mins> i see
Dec 09 16:14:50 <Leeds> no, no, go read the SDK docs... apparently
Dec 09 16:15:00 <mins> well i do need direction
Dec 09 16:15:07 <Disconnect> ..to where?
Dec 09 16:15:26 <mins> sdk docs i assume
Dec 09 16:15:39 <Disconnect> android.com
Dec 09 16:15:42 <Leeds> we can't direct you until we know where you want to go
Dec 09 16:15:51 <mins> thats it?
Dec 09 16:15:54 <Disconnect> ..other than away
Dec 09 16:16:02 <Disconnect> there's probably a better link but its in a bot
Dec 09 16:16:11 <Disconnect> but at the bottom is 3 links. pick one and follow it.
Dec 09 16:16:12 <mins> thanks
Dec 09 16:16:24 <mins> sorry i intruded
Dec 09 16:16:30 <Leeds> hmm, SonyEricsson just signed up to OHA
Dec 09 16:16:34 <Leeds> mins: you're welcome
Dec 09 16:17:34 <Leeds> as well as a bunch of other hardware people
Dec 09 16:18:03 <BlindOracle> I figured out where the system...blah reference is coming form
Dec 09 16:18:04 <BlindOracle> from
Dec 09 16:19:39 <mikey|> :|
Dec 09 16:19:48 <mikey|> the autoscrolling still isnt fixed for me :o
Dec 09 16:20:03 <mikey|> it scrolls down (sometimes), but not always enough :|
Dec 09 16:21:14 <minz> ummmmm
Dec 09 16:21:27 <marix> android for the ps4
Dec 09 16:21:31 <marix> thats why i heard...
Dec 09 16:21:54 <minz> hello
Dec 09 16:22:06 <marix> hi minz,  how are you today?
Dec 09 16:22:15 <minz> hi
Dec 09 16:22:26 <marix> hello
Dec 09 16:22:49 <vol> minmax
Dec 09 16:22:57 <minz> can someone tell me how to get tge g1 to work in a certain chatsite
Dec 09 16:23:04 <minz> the
Dec 09 16:23:13 <marix> which chat site is that minz?
Dec 09 16:23:26 <vol> minz: if they use java applets, that's out. If they use flash, that's out.
Dec 09 16:23:30 <minz> its called buzzen
Dec 09 16:23:34 <marix> everyone stay cool,  i work the helpdesk and can speak noob.
Dec 09 16:23:35 <vol> if they use some funky ajax framework, it might work.
Dec 09 16:23:38 <vol> haha
Dec 09 16:23:58 <minz> ok
Dec 09 16:24:29 <minz> from what i understand it is java
Dec 09 16:24:38 <minz> so no go eh?
Dec 09 16:24:50 <vol> possibly not.
Dec 09 16:24:58 <vol> marix can answer better, though
Dec 09 16:25:01 <vol> since he speeks noob
Dec 09 16:25:04 <minz> noob i am
Dec 09 16:25:49 <minz> gotta start somewhere right?
Dec 09 16:26:16 <marix> minz,  gimme a sec i'm trying a few things
Dec 09 16:26:27 <minz> ty
Dec 09 16:26:31 <marix> perhaps some hot cocoa would make you feel a bit better.
Dec 09 16:26:47 <minz> no ty
Dec 09 16:27:01 <minz> cold soda works fine
Dec 09 16:28:28 <marix> this site takes forever to load...
Dec 09 16:28:46 <minz> which?
Dec 09 16:28:52 <marix> buzzen.net
Dec 09 16:29:18 <minz> not on comp
Dec 09 16:29:53 <marix> so,  it appears that the formatting is't compatible with the built in browser for the g1.  It's java based but must do something that chrome lite doesnt like because it hangs after loading the images.
Dec 09 16:30:32 <marix> Minz,  it will not work at this time.  perhaps updates in the future will enable this functionality on the site.
Dec 09 16:31:15 <minz> well ive tried it too i get the chat applet up and thats as far as it goes
Dec 09 16:31:36 <marix> yea.
Dec 09 16:31:42 <bparker06> what happened to com.android.net.http.RequestQueue ?
Dec 09 16:31:45 <marix> it dun work.
Dec 09 16:32:14 <minz> thinj maybe someone will figure it out for another ckient
Dec 09 16:32:25 <minz> client even
Dec 09 16:32:26 <marix> mayhaps
Dec 09 16:33:24 <minz> well do u know of any that the g1 does work in
Dec 09 16:33:53 <marix> what chatting do you want to do?  irc chat?
Dec 09 16:33:53 <minz> free preff
Dec 09 16:34:07 <minz> im a noob so
Dec 09 16:34:16 <minz> as i been called
Dec 09 16:34:49 <minz> enlighten me to the better  options
Dec 09 16:34:59 <marix> so you want to do any kind of chatting,  with anyone,  on your g1
Dec 09 16:35:10 <minz> yes
Dec 09 16:35:43 <minz> work gets bored with no comp
Dec 09 16:38:08 <marix> minz,  type this into your browser on yoru g1
Dec 09 16:38:09 <marix> http://embed.mibbit.com/?server=irc.freenode.net&channel=%23trivia
Dec 09 16:38:17 <marix> its a great place to hang and chat
Dec 09 16:38:24 <marix> or something
Dec 09 16:38:29 <marix> ok bye
Dec 09 16:38:58 <minz> thankx
Dec 09 16:47:14 <marix> is he gone?
Dec 09 16:49:27 <vol> yes
Dec 09 16:49:37 <vol> 11:39 < minz> thankx
Dec 09 16:49:37 <vol> 11:39 -!- minz [i=d0365339@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-791e237f395b4300] has quit ["http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client"]
Dec 09 16:52:01 <marix> guess he went to play trivia
Dec 09 16:52:22 <Disconnect> i seriously don't think a bot is the biggest problem with this channel right now. i think its the users. :)
Dec 09 16:54:16 <marix> are you still mad because i edited your infobot profile?
Dec 09 16:55:14 <SanMehat> holy crap
Dec 09 16:55:22 <SanMehat> i come back and you're STILL talking about bots?
Dec 09 16:55:29 * SanMehat goes back to coding
Dec 09 16:56:44 <BlindOracle> have basic c-compiler working..testing c++ compiler
Dec 09 17:07:24 <BlindOracle> anyone gotten the arm c++ compiler to successfully link?
Dec 09 17:08:05 <vol> yes
Dec 09 17:08:07 <brocktice> @seen BlindOracle
Dec 09 17:08:07 <LtData> brocktice: BlindOracle was last seen in #android 42 seconds ago: <BlindOracle> anyone gotten the arm c++ compiler to successfully link?
Dec 09 17:08:18 <brocktice> Seems to be working
Dec 09 17:08:22 <vol> it's kind of a hassle and I don't really know how it works myself.
Dec 09 17:08:31 <vol> my gcc-foo is poor : (
Dec 09 17:08:45 <BlindOracle> brocktice: what's the c++ lib required to resolve. I've tried -lstdc++
Dec 09 17:09:02 <brocktice> BlindOracle, sorry, I meant the bot was working.
Dec 09 17:09:10 <brocktice> I don't know about the compiler.
Dec 09 17:09:13 <vol> -lstdc++ is what we use
Dec 09 17:09:14 <BlindOracle> resolved includes undefined reference to `std::basic_ostream, etc
Dec 09 17:09:16 <BlindOracle> oh...dang it
Dec 09 17:09:34 <vol> we also use -nostdlib as a flag though so ymmv
Dec 09 17:09:56 <BlindOracle> arm-none-linux-gnueabi-ld --dynamic-linker /system/bin/linker -nostdlib -rpath /system/lib -rpath ~/Download/android/system/lib -L ~/Download/android/system/lib -lstdc++ -o t start.o t.o
Dec 09 17:11:09 <vol> we do something more like -arm-eabi-gcc -blah blah blah -o ourlib
Dec 09 17:11:15 <BlindOracle> vol: tried with and without -nostdlib
Dec 09 17:12:23 <BlindOracle> vol: single stage linking?
Dec 09 17:13:29 <vol> oh well, we create .a files first
Dec 09 17:13:38 <vol> then link all of them (and a few .o files) into one shared lib at the end
Dec 09 17:13:53 <BlindOracle> "g++ t.cpp start.c -o t" did work. Trying binary now.
Dec 09 17:14:07 <brocktice> @whatis FAQ
Dec 09 17:14:07 <LtData> brocktice: "FAQ" could be http://android-dls.com/wiki/index.php?title=Android_FAQ
Dec 09 17:14:22 <brocktice> This is progress
Dec 09 17:15:40 <brocktice> I love that my reply about why K-9 is a fork is posted verbatim in the FAQ
Dec 09 17:16:10 <BlindOracle> vol: single stage linking didn't work...and make since once you think about it...I'll try again with two stage
Dec 09 17:16:45 <djc> brocktice: are you the k9mail guy?
Dec 09 17:16:56 <brocktice> djc, I am *a* k9mail guy
Dec 09 17:17:05 <brocktice> jesse a.k.a. obra is *the* k9mail guy
Dec 09 17:17:23 <djc> ah :)
Dec 09 17:17:37 <djc> so is the long story available somewhere? :)
Dec 09 17:17:53 <obra> I can attempt it
Dec 09 17:17:53 <BlindOracle> vol: are you guys actually using the C++ compiler or just the C compiler?
Dec 09 17:18:01 <vol> c++ compiler
Dec 09 17:18:09 <vol> gcc will route things to g++
Dec 09 17:18:15 <vol> and to the linker
Dec 09 17:18:21 <BlindOracle> vol: what do you pass for "--entry", as I assume the name becomes mangled?
Dec 09 17:18:27 <djc> obra: I'd like it :)
Dec 09 17:18:37 <obra> djc: Basically, I desperately wanted a working email client on my android phone. to do that, I needed to rename it. (Due to the entirely-sane prohibition on replacing core apps)
Dec 09 17:18:47 <BlindOracle> vol: do you use gcc for linking rather than ld directly?
Dec 09 17:18:50 <brocktice> djc, Basically we wanted updates faster and we're trying to get the gears in place to contribute back.
Dec 09 17:18:57 <vol> BlindOracle: I don't believe we use --entry
Dec 09 17:19:03 <vol> and yes, we use gcc for linking
Dec 09 17:19:09 <obra> djc: I'd really like to see all of k-9's changes pushed upstream. but right now, the core dev process is still spinning up their opensource workflow
Dec 09 17:19:09 <brocktice> LtData, whatis K-9
Dec 09 17:19:09 <LtData> brocktice: "K-9" could be An experimental fork of Android's default Email app. IRC at #k-9 on Freenode.
Dec 09 17:19:11 <BlindOracle> k...testing...
Dec 09 17:19:49 <obra> Once I'd gotten an imap client that could do server-side deletes, other folks popped up with interest, so I threw it up on the store and google code
Dec 09 17:20:28 <djc> obra: sounds sane :)
Dec 09 17:20:31 <obra> I know a new drop of Email is coming ~soonish and that Google have allocated more resources to improving the core apps including mail.
Dec 09 17:20:38 <brocktice> LtData, whatis LtData
Dec 09 17:20:38 <LtData> brocktice: "LtData" could be a utility bot run by brocktice on several android-related Freenode channels.
Dec 09 17:20:41 <obra> I'm really hopeful that I'll get out of the fork business ;)
Dec 09 17:21:09 <djc> I noticed you through bradfitz's k9sms :)
Dec 09 17:21:17 <obra> soon, we'll be un-renaming as much of the code as we can. (When we started out, we used too big a hammer)
Dec 09 17:21:20 * obra nods
Dec 09 17:21:25 <obra> brad's story is somewhat similar.
Dec 09 17:21:26 <djc> and yes, contribution rather than forking would be better for these :)
Dec 09 17:21:52 <obra> djc: if there were a way to get dev builds onto consumer devices, it'd be a lot easier
Dec 09 17:22:16 <BlindOracle> vol: can you please give me an actual line used for linking? I'm not having much success here
Dec 09 17:22:30 <obra> Waiting 2-3 months to see a patch end up on my device isn't exactly encouraging to me.
Dec 09 17:22:44 <djc> obra: agreed
Dec 09 17:22:53 <djc> though there seems to be a lot of momentum, and goodwill
Dec 09 17:22:57 <obra> there's a middleground that we haven't found yet.
Dec 09 17:23:08 <obra> yeah. I'd describe K9 as "experimental friendly forks"
Dec 09 17:23:39 <obra> K-9 was a bolted-together mutt with the extraordinary ability to save the doctor's ass ;)
Dec 09 17:24:46 <Disconnect> michaelnovakjr: time to start foaming at the mouth again, there's another bot. (seriously guys, if they are gonna be banned then fscking ban them already. its been made clear to everyone by now that its not allowed.)
Dec 09 17:26:23 <vol> /usr/local/ndk/toolchain/arm-eabi/bin/arm-eabi-gcc -nostdlib -Wl,-T,/usr/local/ndk/config/armelf.x -Wl,-soname,../../projects/android/builds/.make-debug/OUR_LIBRARY.so -Wl,-shared,-Bsymbolic -L../lib -L.. -L. -L/usr/local/ndk/lib -L/home/avollmer/android_source/mydroid/out/target/product/generic/system/lib -L../../projects/android/builds/.make-debug  -fpic <A BUNCH OF OUR .o FILES GO HERE> <A TON OF -lOurLibs HERE> -lz -lsgl -lc -lm -ldl -lstdc++  -o .
Dec 09 17:26:34 <BlindOracle> vol: thanks...trying
Dec 09 17:26:55 <vol> bear in mind that some of this is ndk stuff we got from HTC, but at this point we're ready to just use the public android source
Dec 09 17:26:56 <brocktice> Disconnect, is it actually not allowed?
Dec 09 17:27:06 <andyross> vol: you don't want a path, much less a relative path, in your -soname
Dec 09 17:27:08 <brocktice> I guess that wasn't clear, I thought we wanted infobot type functionality without public logging.
Dec 09 17:27:11 <Disconnect> brocktice: ..why do you think everyone is arguing about it? and its in the join message
Dec 09 17:27:28 <vol> andyross: that's probably true. Why not?
Dec 09 17:27:42 <brocktice> ok, sorry
Dec 09 17:27:47 <Disconnect> brocktice: right. i set that up already. then michaelnovakjr started foaming and freaking out again because it got abused and flood protection didn't kick in (i think it was abotu 10 messages in 30 seconds or so)
Dec 09 17:28:18 <Disconnect> (freaking out about the bot, not about the people abusing it or the fact that flood protection wasn't perfectly tuned 'out of the box')
Dec 09 17:28:50 * brocktice sighs
Dec 09 17:28:58 <andyross> The soname is the canonical name of the shared library.  If you want transitive dependencies between libraries to work, that name needs to match.  If it's dependent on the file structure of the build system, it generally won't.
Dec 09 17:29:00 <vol> also, bear in mind that this isn't going to be a library that anyone else links against, so it doesn't matter if it's uggo
Dec 09 17:29:08 <vol> yeah
Dec 09 17:29:16 <vol> we're not concerned about anyone else linking to this library for any reason
Dec 09 17:29:30 <vol> nor do we plan on putting out incremental updates
Dec 09 17:29:36 <andyross> The standard form is "libWhatever.so.N", for some version number N.  You change N when you make incompatible changes.
Dec 09 17:29:57 <andyross> They why are you bothering to specify a soname at all?
Dec 09 17:37:46 <BlindOracle> vol: well, I'm getting something to link but it segfaults
Dec 09 17:39:03 <BlindOracle> it's an unknown syscall
Dec 09 17:39:05 <BlindOracle> hmm
Dec 09 17:41:34 <BlindOracle> vol: btw, has anyone done any comparisons between the java compiler and the gcc compiler to see which generates more optimized code? which is smaller? Since the java environment doesn't have a jit, I assume gcc does better.
Dec 09 17:42:10 <vol> I have absolutely no idea.
Dec 09 17:42:15 <vol> I didn't write this, and I barely understand it : ()
Dec 09 17:42:16 <deepbw> wtf is android/
Dec 09 17:42:17 <Disconnect> ..you realize that its apples and oranges right?
Dec 09 17:42:21 <deepbw> i'm remmeber somethink
Dec 09 17:42:23 <deepbw> but...
Dec 09 17:42:35 <vol> deepbw: code.google.com/android/
Dec 09 17:42:47 <Disconnect> michaelnovakjr: tell deepbw about android
Dec 09 17:42:48 <BlindOracle> Disconnect: oh that's right, the java stuff is still running in a vm whereas gcc is native code
Dec 09 17:42:52 <brocktice> hahaha
Dec 09 17:42:54 <vol> heh
Dec 09 17:43:21 <deepbw> WTF IS ANDROID?
Dec 09 17:43:22 <vol> BlindOracle: there's not much optimization in dalvik, due to size constraints, iirc.
Dec 09 17:43:30 <andyross> Clearly if you have a cpu bound task, you're going to do better with gcc.  But the APIs available to native code aren't the same things as the ones in dalvik land.  You wouldn't write UI code in a shared library, and you probably don't want to do image processing in java.
Dec 09 17:43:38 <vol> deepbw: it's a mobile platform
Dec 09 17:43:40 <vol> like symbian
Dec 09 17:43:43 <vol> or winmobile
Dec 09 17:43:52 <vol> or that.
Dec 09 17:44:01 <Disconnect> SanMehat: tell deepbw about manners
Dec 09 17:44:02 <Disconnect> :)
Dec 09 17:44:05 <BlindOracle> andyross: that makes sense...so jni is the preferred glue? or some IPC?
Dec 09 17:44:29 <vol> JNI
Dec 09 17:44:34 <vol> at least that's how we're doing it for our stuff
Dec 09 17:44:50 <andyross> JNI is required right now if you want to install via an apk.  The entry point to all applications is an activity, and that's a Java API.  After you've bootstrapped into a native process, you can use whatever you want -- local sockets, etc...
Dec 09 17:46:29 <BlindOracle> vol: andyross: now that I think about it, isn't there a python script which will create stubs and makefiles for us?
Dec 09 17:47:05 <andyross> BlindOracle: this is a GPL'd native code OpenGL demo and performance rig I did a few weeks ago.  There's a makefile build system and a perl wrapper around the compiler.  Probably worth looking at if you need sample code: http://plausible.org/andy/Game1.tar.gz
Dec 09 17:47:51 <BlindOracle> andyross: thanks so much!
Dec 09 17:47:54 * BlindOracle is looking
Dec 09 17:49:37 <BlindOracle> andyross: should I always be compiling against a pull from /system/lib of the target?
Dec 09 17:51:05 <andyross> Well, you "should" be linking against an official SDK, but there isn't one.  I figured the actual shipped binaries are less likely to be subject to version skew than the stuff in the open source tree.   But the bionic headers *have* to come from the source tree, so you pays your money and you makes your choice.
Dec 09 17:51:09 <blau-MikeDG> can anyone point in the right direction for opening the Messaging app to a conversation?
Dec 09 17:51:31 <blau-MikeDG> via intents
Dec 09 17:51:40 <andyross> That, and there were a few libraries (I forget which ones) that didn't pop out from my tree build, and I was too lazy to figure it out.
Dec 09 17:51:42 <michaelnovakjr> try looking at the Manifest file
Dec 09 17:52:22 <blau-MikeDG> i think! this is the rrelevant stuff <intent-filter>    <action android:name="android.intent.action.VIEW" />            <action droid:name="android.intent.action.SENDTO" />            <category android:name="android.intent.category.DEFAULT" />                 category android:name="android.intent.category.BROWSABLE" />                 <data android:scheme="sms" />                 <data android:scheme="smsto" />
Dec 09 17:53:46 <michaelnovakjr> blau-MikeDG: data=sms:555-555-5555
Dec 09 17:54:02 <michaelnovakjr> that's the data field for the SENDTO intent
Dec 09 17:54:24 <michaelnovakjr> so you need to set the data Uri to that scheme
Dec 09 17:57:16 <blau-MikeDG> perhaps thats not what i need
Dec 09 17:57:24 <blau-MikeDG> must investigate
Dec 09 18:03:35 <hubar> How can I *completely* turn off an application?
Dec 09 18:03:56 <hubar> I don't want it to run at background, I wanna *kill -9*it.
Dec 09 18:04:19 <jbq> hubar: uninstall it.
Dec 09 18:04:39 <hubar> hmm that is the only way?
Dec 09 18:04:44 <jbq> Yes
Dec 09 18:04:59 <hubar> hmm okay! :)
Dec 09 18:05:05 <jbq> killing its current process isn't going to stop it, the system will detect that and will restart it at the first opportunity.
Dec 09 18:05:29 <jbq> It'd be great if an app could be inactivated in "manage applications" without having to uninstall it, but that's not currently possible.
Dec 09 18:05:56 <blau-MikeDG> yeah i hate that my sms receivers run even if i dont want them too
Dec 09 18:05:57 <blau-MikeDG> grr
Dec 09 18:06:59 <hubar> Is there a way to input CJK (Chinese Japanese Korean) in G1?
Dec 09 18:07:08 <jbq> hubar: not currently.
Dec 09 18:07:08 <Disconnect> jbq: it'd be great if an app could be exited, too
Dec 09 18:07:22 <Disconnect> esp given that when the market has a glitch, it can take half of forever to get it to expire the cache and try again.
Dec 09 18:07:32 <jbq> Disconnect: well, that's what 'deactivate' would do, I guess.
Dec 09 18:07:34 <hubar> jbq: Is there plan to?
Dec 09 18:07:59 <jbq> hubar: there are plans to support on-screen input methods in a release currently targeted for next quarter.
Dec 09 18:08:21 <Disconnect> jbq: i'd expect deactivate to be more of an 'unregister handlers, actvities, startup items..' vs 'restart app' being "find instances of dalvik with this app and exit them"
Dec 09 18:08:30 <jbq> Disconnect: there's some back-end code behind the "Clear Data" button that deactivates apps temporarily (we ran into tons of crashes when clearing apps' data while they were running!)
Dec 09 18:08:51 <hubar> jbq: That would be the "killer" application for me. :) can hardly wait!
Dec 09 18:09:39 <jbq> Disconnect: well, it depends on how "violent" you want to "exit" to be. In the case of "clear data" we can be as violent as we want, since the app's persistent data isn't going to be left in an inconsistent state.
Dec 09 18:10:00 <jbq> Admittedly any app should be prepared for its process to disappear at any time, but there can be quite a gap between theory and practice there.
Dec 09 18:10:12 <Disconnect> kill -term, wait, then hit the [Wait] [Force close] dialog
Dec 09 18:10:21 <Disconnect> and yah, dmesg shows the thing kill -9 all over the place
Dec 09 18:11:27 <jbq> Obviously it's a feature that many people seem to want, and sadly we'll have to deal with apps so poorly written that this is the only way.
Dec 09 18:11:41 <Disconnect> ..like marketplace?
Dec 09 18:11:41 <Disconnect> :)
Dec 09 18:12:19 <Disconnect> i'd submit patches to fix the cache problem there, bt..
Dec 09 18:12:20 <Disconnect> but
Dec 09 18:12:26 <bparker06> hubar: there is a way
Dec 09 18:12:31 <jbq> Touché. Well, the issue with marketplace is that the %*&^@#)( doesn't let you clear its data.
Dec 09 18:12:50 <Disconnect> that is one of the issues. the one i'm looking at is it caches failures.
Dec 09 18:13:04 <hubar> bparker06: a wayfor what?
Dec 09 18:13:13 <Disconnect> unless you have plans to turn off market entirely someday, it should never cache no-data-found..
Dec 09 18:13:14 <bparker06> there is a rudimentary IME for android
Dec 09 18:13:28 <bparker06> hubar: http://www.adamrocker.com/blog/236/simeji_android_japanese_input.html
Dec 09 18:15:04 <bparker06> anyone know how to make setText() block?
Dec 09 18:15:40 <bparker06> I'm doing a URLConnection, setting the text of a TextView field both before and after the request... but the text that should show up before the request starts is even shown
Dec 09 18:15:41 <hubar> hmm does it work for chinese?
Dec 09 18:15:46 <bparker06> hubar: don't think so
Dec 09 18:16:13 <bparker06> is never shown*
Dec 09 18:29:21 <blau-MikeDG> undocumented spocumented
Dec 09 18:34:35 <blau-MikeDG> anyone want to guess why some apps make people want to comment mroe than others
Dec 09 18:34:45 <blau-MikeDG> or maybe the market is just fuller now
Dec 09 18:35:09 <blau-MikeDG> i have 2 apps
Dec 09 18:35:17 <blau-MikeDG> one is almost 20k dls, the other almost 10k
Dec 09 18:35:24 <blau-MikeDG> they both have about 300 comments
Dec 09 18:37:02 <marix> about 40% include the word "gay"
Dec 09 18:37:09 <DarkriftX> i think seeing other comments is whaqt makes me want to comment
Dec 09 18:37:22 <DarkriftX> when i see stupid comments, or some jackass rate something 1 star for no reason
Dec 09 18:37:46 <blau-MikeDG> one is at 59% active installs, the other at 43%
Dec 09 18:37:51 <blau-MikeDG> but the 43% is rated better
Dec 09 18:38:44 <Damm> i'm actually very troubled by the comments in the market
Dec 09 18:38:46 <DarkriftX> what are your apps?
Dec 09 18:38:50 <blau-MikeDG> search for dg
Dec 09 18:38:59 <Damm> you check out messenger apps, and you can find people trying to hook upf ro dates.
Dec 09 18:39:02 <Damm> up for*
Dec 09 18:39:08 <Damm> like maverick for example.
Dec 09 18:39:10 <DarkriftX> i know
Dec 09 18:39:14 <wastrel> mmm market commetns would be a good sociological study
Dec 09 18:39:15 * jbq sighs... market comments :(
Dec 09 18:39:21 <wastrel> someone's thesis :]
Dec 09 18:39:31 <DarkriftX> "hey wer da hawt hoz be"
Dec 09 18:39:58 <DarkriftX> all this "hit me up, my email is blah..."
Dec 09 18:40:03 <blau-MikeDG> sigh some user for my app turned off the auto response delay
Dec 09 18:40:10 <blau-MikeDG> and got in a sms loop with some automated service
Dec 09 18:40:13 <blau-MikeDG> sigh
Dec 09 18:40:15 <brocktice> oh dear
Dec 09 18:40:15 <Disconnect> haahha sweet
Dec 09 18:40:17 <wastrel> heh
Dec 09 18:40:18 <blau-MikeDG> or so they claim on my comments
Dec 09 18:40:40 <Disconnect> "congratulations sir, you are now a cautionary tale"
Dec 09 18:40:40 <brocktice> Guess they never learned about feedback systems.
Dec 09 18:40:41 <DarkriftX> who fucking cares what your email is, you just rated an app 1 star because you didnt understand it, and you look for a date on a download service
Dec 09 18:40:59 <brocktice> Until now that is.
Dec 09 18:41:44 <marix> you should start emailing them,  see if they wanna "hook up"
Dec 09 18:42:20 <blau-MikeDG> like i purposefully put in a delay so people didnt do something stupid
Dec 09 18:42:43 <brocktice> blau-MikeDG, I guess it needs a floor.
Dec 09 18:42:48 <brocktice> A non-zero floor.
Dec 09 18:42:56 <unix_lappy> anyone know of a way to get all active windows.  whether it be a reference to the window or a proper activity with the browser?
Dec 09 18:43:15 <brocktice> If you set it negative will it send pre-emptive replies?
Dec 09 18:44:01 <jbq> Don't do it. Time-travel is a bad idea, even for SMS.
Dec 09 18:44:20 <blau-MikeDG> doesnt let yyou send negative
Dec 09 18:44:27 <brocktice> Oh, that's good.
Dec 09 18:44:42 <brocktice> jbq, If you sent yourself a message you could really be in trouble.
Dec 09 18:44:52 <brocktice> kernel panic
Dec 09 18:44:59 <brocktice> Hey has anyone seen a panic yet?
Dec 09 18:45:01 <marix> i heard henry the 8th received the following before killing each of his wives, "omg my bff jill?"
Dec 09 18:45:45 <blau-MikeDG> i think i have only one 1 star review now
Dec 09 18:45:46 <blau-MikeDG> sigh
Dec 09 18:45:49 <zhobbs> I get so many dumb emails about that Term app I stuck up on the Market....the latest one: "Will this app let you download google earth?"
Dec 09 18:46:07 <michaelnovakjr> zhobbs: my file manager got a few of those
Dec 09 18:46:10 <brocktice> the comments need moderation
Dec 09 18:46:17 <michaelnovakjr> zhobbs: can i telnet with your app? :)
Dec 09 18:46:33 <brocktice> Or at least a way to make users invisible so that you never have to see their comments again.
Dec 09 18:46:42 <jbq> brocktice: for many of them, moderating them to /dev/null would be appropriate.
Dec 09 18:46:50 <zhobbs> brocktice: this isn't in the comments, this is the "send feedback to developer" option
Dec 09 18:47:07 <michaelnovakjr> jbq: sending to /dev/null is a great idea!
Dec 09 18:47:09 <blau-MikeDG> zhobbs: well at least yours use that
Dec 09 18:47:21 <brocktice> zhobbs, Oh, sorry.
Dec 09 18:47:27 <blau-MikeDG> ive resorted to posting in comments, <user> please email me at ieie@idid.com
Dec 09 18:48:37 <jbq> when we announced that market would be youtube-like my first thought was "OMG comments!"
Dec 09 18:48:48 <michaelnovakjr> haha
Dec 09 18:49:11 <brocktice> The comments are important if you have ratings.
Dec 09 18:49:15 <blau-MikeDG> at least the US election is over
Dec 09 18:49:20 <brocktice> they let you see whether the people rating one star are morons
Dec 09 18:49:33 <zhobbs> blau-MikeDG: do you get many to actually email you about it?
Dec 09 18:49:41 <michaelnovakjr> brocktice: some of the one star ratings i saw had just a . for the comment
Dec 09 18:49:44 <blau-MikeDG> zhobbs: amazingly yes
Dec 09 18:49:50 <brocktice> michaelnovakjr, Still, most of the time it helps.
Dec 09 18:49:54 <blau-MikeDG> apparently they read the comments and check frequently enough
Dec 09 18:49:56 <brocktice> And anyway, that helps too.
Dec 09 18:50:08 <michaelnovakjr> brocktice: i like comments when its negative.... at least you know what you're in for
Dec 09 18:50:10 <jbq> We should require a 200-word essay for each comment, to be able to determine whether the user understood the app.
Dec 09 18:50:14 <zhobbs> it'd almost be nice if on the comment box there was an option "all the developer of this app to contact me about this problem"
Dec 09 18:50:18 <michaelnovakjr> haha
Dec 09 18:50:18 <Disconnect> seriously, community moderation works. 'flag this' .. certain threshold of flags pops all that user's comments for moderation. moderator can unflag (reset counter) or remove (or ban user)
Dec 09 18:50:23 <zhobbs> s/all/allow/
Dec 09 18:50:31 <brocktice> Disconnect, yes please
Dec 09 18:50:36 <Disconnect> zhobbs: ..swallow what now?
Dec 09 18:51:01 <brocktice> jbq, Could you use the internet access captcha and/or math problems to limit access to commenting?
Dec 09 18:51:19 <blau-MikeDG> math problems :)
Dec 09 18:51:35 <brocktice> Let devs turn it on for their app as an option.
Dec 09 18:51:35 <jbq> I was joking, of course, but it's a definite problem and I hope that we can solve it soon.
Dec 09 18:51:40 <Disconnect> teh goog can even do metamoderation. let community volunteers moderate and then just do a quick glance-check to make sure its in line with whatever standards
Dec 09 18:52:03 <blau-MikeDG> i gotta reboot eclipse is on the fritza
Dec 09 18:52:40 <zhobbs> so there's still not really a good way to push a notification to the phone right?
Dec 09 18:53:42 <DarkriftX> i think that having a way to flag a comment/rating as shit would be great
Dec 09 18:53:46 <Disconnect> from the internets?
Dec 09 18:53:48 <DarkriftX> i know id spend the time flagging fuckwads
Dec 09 18:55:34 <ttuttle> =D
Dec 09 18:55:40 <DarkriftX> i also think there should be a moderation of all 1 star comments, those are almost always the problem ones
Dec 09 18:56:32 <blau-MikeDG> back
Dec 09 19:03:54 <bherrmann> Just bought a used g1.  Anyway to bypass Activation?   (And just mess with it as a Wifi device?)
Dec 09 19:07:53 <DarkriftX> bherrmann: you dont have a gmail account?
Dec 09 19:07:55 <DarkriftX> or no service
Dec 09 19:08:05 <bherrmann> yes, think no sim card
Dec 09 19:08:08 <DarkriftX> ok
Dec 09 19:08:20 <DarkriftX> try xda-developers.com in the dream development section
Dec 09 19:08:26 <DarkriftX> someone posted a method to bypass activation
Dec 09 19:08:44 <DarkriftX> thats a good thing to put on the faq
Dec 09 19:08:45 <marix> requires a tmo sim doesn't it
Dec 09 19:09:23 <bherrmann> Actually, I tried using a buddies g1 SIM to activate, and I was surprised that refused to activate.
Dec 09 19:09:59 <bherrmann> Did R30 change to lock the IEME number to the t-mobile service?
Dec 09 19:10:26 <DarkriftX> http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=452316&highlight=activation
Dec 09 19:11:07 <DarkriftX> that might not work for you
Dec 09 19:11:09 <DarkriftX> if you have rc30
Dec 09 19:12:14 <bherrmann> yea, I can try the reboot thing and see.
Dec 09 19:13:13 <DarkriftX> http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=436767&highlight=activation
Dec 09 19:13:15 <DarkriftX> might work
Dec 09 19:14:13 <simon> aren't the t-mobile copies vendor-locked?
Dec 09 19:14:58 <vol> Hmm. The phones we got just arrived; is it possible to use them without a data plan sim, or a gmail account?
Dec 09 19:15:09 <vol> the gmail account wouldn't be a biggy, but we don't want to spend $ for data plan sims
Dec 09 19:15:46 <bherrmann> DarkriftX: no reboot ... so I must have RC30
Dec 09 19:15:54 <djc> vol: read before you ask, someone was just asking that
Dec 09 19:16:18 <bherrmann> vol: read http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=436767&highlight=activation
Dec 09 19:16:29 <vol> djc: boo
Dec 09 19:16:34 <vol> bherrmann: thanks
Dec 09 19:17:27 <vol> also, this says it bypasses the security screen, not the initial activation screen
Dec 09 19:17:30 <vol> which is kind of our issue
Dec 09 19:17:46 <bherrmann> vol: good point.
Dec 09 19:18:32 <bherrmann> vol: When I got my phone a previous owner had been using.   I was able to use it for wifi and messing around with the media player... until I reset it - DOH!
Dec 09 19:18:50 <bherrmann> vol: the previous owner had a T-mobile account with a g1 data plan.
Dec 09 19:19:09 <vol> ah
Dec 09 19:19:25 <bherrmann> vol: the express answer is you need a data plan to make the device mildly happy
Dec 09 19:19:50 <bherrmann> You can use an AT&T plan or a T-Mobile plan (althout with AT&T you don't get 3g as I understand it.)
Dec 09 19:20:06 <Damm> you can't get 3G with the G1 on anyone other then T-Mobile
Dec 09 19:20:22 <Damm> until more carriers start to roll out a AWS 3G solution, that will be the same.
Dec 09 19:20:30 <ttuttle> AWS?
Dec 09 19:20:31 <bherrmann> vol: your quickest path to happiness is to go to T-Mobile and try out the g1 data plan with the Flex Plan
Dec 09 19:20:31 <Damm> it's not the frequencies, it's the AWS.
Dec 09 19:20:49 <Damm> ttuttle, T-Mobile uses something called AWS... it's a 'band switching' ... beyond that
Dec 09 19:20:49 <vol> alright, thanks
Dec 09 19:20:52 <blau-MikeDG> does safe mode let you install stuff?
Dec 09 19:20:53 <ttuttle> Ah.
Dec 09 19:21:10 <bherrmann> vol: T-mobile does give you 14 days to test drive the plan
Dec 09 19:21:14 <Damm> lemme find a reference article
Dec 09 19:21:39 <Damm> ttuttle, http://www.phonescoop.com/articles/article.php?a=99
Dec 09 19:21:44 <vol> bherrmann: we have corp accounts, and probably have t-mobile sim cards with data plans around here
Dec 09 19:21:57 <bherrmann> vol: please mail me one
Dec 09 19:22:01 <bherrmann> vol: :-)
Dec 09 19:22:27 <vol> bherrmann: sure :P
Dec 09 19:22:40 <unix_lappy> bherrmann: can you change plans within the 14 days?
Dec 09 19:22:51 <Damm> you can only use the G1 with "G1" Data plans.
Dec 09 19:23:03 <Damm> so if you have a plan setup for a Blackberry, or MDA it won't work with the G1
Dec 09 19:23:08 <bherrmann> unix_lappy: You can change voice plans, I believe they only have 1 data plan.
Dec 09 19:23:15 <Damm> (as the G1 uses different apn's then any other T-Mobile Device)
Dec 09 19:23:32 <Damm> bherrmann, there's several 2 or 3 plans afaik
Dec 09 19:23:35 <Damm> for the G1
Dec 09 19:23:39 <unix_lappy> bherrmann: right.
Dec 09 19:27:02 <zhobbs> cool, Garmin is in the OHA now....
Dec 09 19:30:03 <djc> yeah, and Sony-Ericsson, and a whole bunch of others
Dec 09 19:30:07 <fadden> http://www.openhandsetalliance.com/press_120908.html
Dec 09 19:30:14 <zhobbs> yeah
Dec 09 19:30:15 <djc> it's almost just Nokia holding out :P
Dec 09 19:30:27 <djc> and Apple, obviously
Dec 09 19:30:27 <bherrmann> Nokia should get with the program.
Dec 09 19:30:33 <vol> 14:20 < bherrmann> vol: your quickest path to happiness is to go to T-Mobile and try out the g1 data plan with the Flex Plan
Dec 09 19:30:37 <vol> er shoot
Dec 09 19:30:37 <djc> I don't think they will anytime soon
Dec 09 19:30:42 <vol> that's not copy :P
Dec 09 19:30:46 <djc> they're too committed to Symbian
Dec 09 19:31:40 <bherrmann> They do a fair amount of linux stuff in the internet tablets
Dec 09 19:31:46 <blau-MikeDG> maemo?
Dec 09 19:31:47 <zhobbs> it's weird that nokia is so big worldwide....but here in the US it seems like no one has a nokia
Dec 09 19:31:47 <grey-> ick symbian.
Dec 09 19:32:00 <vol> I had a 3595 for quite some time, zhobbs
Dec 09 19:32:01 <grey-> well people are getting android running onsome of the nokia tablets.
Dec 09 19:32:03 <vol> and an n800 :>
Dec 09 19:32:13 <grey-> whether nokia gets with the program or not, they'll get android. ;)
Dec 09 19:32:25 <fadden> I have a Nokia 6800.  It makes a pleasant-enough noise rattling around in my glove box.
Dec 09 19:33:44 <djc> hey, at least I get a Python on my S60 device :P
Dec 09 19:34:04 <grey-> djc: true.
Dec 09 19:34:09 <djc> bherrmann: yeah, their Nx00 range is interesting
Dec 09 19:34:20 <djc> but they haven't been doing any phones with that
Dec 09 19:34:23 <simon> did anyone get the android through the t-mobile plan?
Dec 09 19:34:45 <mikey|> yes
Dec 09 19:34:46 <grey-> simon: like 2year contract new sign up?  Yes, I did.
Dec 09 19:34:49 <grey-> simon: two even!
Dec 09 19:35:00 <grey-> simon: one for my daughter (which I'm about to replace the bootloader on)
Dec 09 19:36:04 <mmarker> grey-: to the engineering loader?
Dec 09 19:36:17 <simon> grey-, oh, I didn't know it was a two-year contract. that sounds pretty insane.
Dec 09 19:36:17 <djc> I. want. my. dev. phone. to. ship.
Dec 09 19:36:26 <brocktice> djc, me as welll
Dec 09 19:36:27 <ttuttle> djc: /me </3 Brightstar.
Dec 09 19:36:28 <grey-> mmarker: aye.
Dec 09 19:36:29 <brocktice> Still no status update
Dec 09 19:36:36 <grey-> simon: *shrug* pretty standard in the US.
Dec 09 19:36:46 <djc> brocktice: indeed, a status update by now would've been nice
Dec 09 19:36:52 <grey-> simon: moreover, AT&T sucks, verizon is cdma, t-mobile is kinda the best choice of evils.
Dec 09 19:37:13 <kirberich> well they say three business days till shipping, so I'm very much looking forward to tomorrow ;)
Dec 09 19:37:13 <ttuttle> AT&T isn't that bad.
Dec 09 19:37:16 <brocktice> verizon also does nasty things to their devices' software
Dec 09 19:37:16 <simon> grey-, danish law prevents that period to be >6 months except in business contracts.
Dec 09 19:37:21 <ttuttle> simon: wow nice
Dec 09 19:37:30 <kirberich> so if I understand this right no one's dev phone was shipped yet?
Dec 09 19:37:31 <grey-> ttuttle: well I just switched after being an at&t customer for a couple years. ;)
Dec 09 19:37:33 <mmarker> grey-: lemme know how it goes. be curious to get some reports before I make a black brick.
Dec 09 19:37:44 <grey-> mmarker: oh, I already did it on my g1, it went smoothly.
Dec 09 19:37:48 <brocktice> kirberich, 3 days is what the friendly woman from Brightstar said
Dec 09 19:37:51 <djc> kirberich: I think so
Dec 09 19:38:00 <grey-> mmarker: just make sure that the crc/md5 on the update.zip is the same as when you copied it. ;)
Dec 09 19:38:00 <djc> brocktice: ooh, you actually called them?
Dec 09 19:38:05 <mmarker> ahh, good. should give it a shot
Dec 09 19:38:08 <brocktice> djc, No, email.
Dec 09 19:38:09 <kirberich> and then I have to wait till the phone crosses the atlantic :/
Dec 09 19:38:13 <BlindOracle> brocktice: so they'll start shipping in three days?
Dec 09 19:38:21 <brocktice> She said they'd ship 3 business days after order placement.
Dec 09 19:38:25 <mmarker> yea, I dont have a jtag adapter handy.
Dec 09 19:38:32 <djc> which would be tomorrow, indeed
Dec 09 19:38:34 <mmarker> nor the paitence to do that
Dec 09 19:38:38 <brocktice> And that the tracking page isn't supposed to show anything until it ships
Dec 09 19:38:40 <grey-> mmarker: if you've already modded yours before, it's as simple as applying the update.zip part of the process [i.e. the easier part]
Dec 09 19:38:59 <brocktice> Even though it has the misleading message that nothing's been ordered, which she said they're "looking into".
Dec 09 19:39:06 <mmarker> yea, modded. so it'll be cake
Dec 09 19:39:56 <mmarker> been trying more userspace app devel (trying to get smack xmpp to run), but next is getting aiccu to work and ipv6 working
Dec 09 19:40:25 <grey-> mmarker: oh nice.
Dec 09 19:40:34 <grey-> actually...
Dec 09 19:40:40 <grey-> a question for people w/ the engineering bootloader.
Dec 09 19:41:26 <grey-> conceivably it will let us flash even to say, stock rc30.  And then back to whatever else, right?
Dec 09 19:41:29 <djc> hmm, I might have to stay home on the day my dev phone is going to arrive
Dec 09 19:42:01 <jbq> grey-: assuming that you can get RC30 in the right format, that sound possible.
Dec 09 19:42:09 <jbq> s/sound/sounds/
Dec 09 19:42:26 <grey-> jbq: heh, k.
Dec 09 19:42:41 <jbq> not really sure how legal that is, though, TC4-RC30 is a T-Mobile-private build.
Dec 09 19:43:03 <simon> grey-, any links on replacing the t-mobile bootloader?
Dec 09 19:43:13 <grey-> simon: errr... moment.
Dec 09 19:43:45 <grey-> simon: http://forum.xda-developers.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=135419&d=1228630086
Dec 09 19:47:06 <simon> grey-, thanks. what is it with these closed forums, though.
Dec 09 19:48:28 <grey-> ungh.
Dec 09 19:48:29 <grey-> srry.
Dec 09 19:48:32 <grey-> lemme find another link.
Dec 09 19:48:41 <grey-> simon: http://androidcommunity.com/forums/f28/dev-g1-bootloader-jacked-8864/
Dec 09 19:49:11 <grey-> simon: or here: http://www.gotontheinter.net/node/7
Dec 09 19:55:44 <marix> That would be awesome if the OHA allowed individual members,  then they could put out press releases about new memberships and after sony-erickson it would read, "Pam and Trevor Smith"
Dec 09 19:56:25 <grey-> haha
Dec 09 19:58:05 <Disconnect> so lets see, thats 8 lines, in a row, from grey- because he wasn't able to ask a bot for a url .. seriously, is this how its gonna be from now on?
Dec 09 19:59:05 <kirberich> Disconnect, likely.
Dec 09 20:00:06 <kirberich> we better go look for something that has no danger of actually being used
Dec 09 20:00:17 <infernix> [   27.600370] mmc1: Data timeout
Dec 09 20:00:27 <infernix> anyone else seen this happen on their G1?
Dec 09 20:00:50 <infernix> 4gb SDHC card, fat32 lba partition, mkfs.vfat -F 32 formattes
Dec 09 20:01:11 <vol> I haven't heard this yet
Dec 09 20:02:20 <SanMehat> infernix: does it recover?
Dec 09 20:02:27 <infernix> no, remounts ro
Dec 09 20:02:43 <SanMehat> but you can still read from it?
Dec 09 20:02:47 <infernix> sometimes fsck.vfat reports wrong free clusters, sometimes it says the FAT tables differ, sometimes nothings wrong
Dec 09 20:02:55 <infernix> in all cases the data i'm writing is corrupted
Dec 09 20:03:04 <SanMehat> hmmm.
Dec 09 20:03:10 <infernix> i can still read, yes
Dec 09 20:03:17 <SanMehat> well the Data timeout indicates the card didn't respond to the write command in time
Dec 09 20:03:35 <SanMehat> the fact that your reads still work means the driver hasn't hung up... so the MMC layer is still working
Dec 09 20:03:42 <infernix>     int fd = open(argv[2], O_WRONLY|O_CREAT|O_TRUNC, 0666);
Dec 09 20:03:43 <SanMehat> i'd say it sounds like a possibly defective card.
Dec 09 20:03:47 <infernix>         wrote = write(fd, buf, len);
Dec 09 20:03:58 <infernix> card works fine in a cardreader
Dec 09 20:04:13 <SanMehat> is it a high speed card?
Dec 09 20:04:16 <infernix> class 6
Dec 09 20:04:18 <SanMehat> and that doesnt mean much...
Dec 09 20:04:29 <SanMehat> no i mean is it a 50 mhz card?
Dec 09 20:04:48 <infernix> hm
Dec 09 20:04:51 <infernix> how do i find out?
Dec 09 20:05:25 <SanMehat> it doesnt matter.. they dont run at that clockrate on the g1
Dec 09 20:05:43 <SanMehat> well data timeouts indicate an issue with the card... or the card is responding slower than it says it should.
Dec 09 20:07:06 <infernix> # High-Speed Class Rating Class 4: 4MB/sec. minimum data transfer rate
Dec 09 20:07:12 <infernix> so its 4 actually
Dec 09 20:08:24 <SanMehat> ok well thats fine
Dec 09 20:09:15 <infernix> but i'm probably reading faster than i can write it
Dec 09 20:09:31 <infernix> so maybe i should rewrite the wrote = and use some sort of buffer
Dec 09 20:11:20 <fadden> infernix: is it writing the full amount, a partial amount, failing entirely, ?
Dec 09 20:11:31 <mikey|> what was would be quicker, check for a re match before performing the re replacement or just doing a re replacement without checking for match?
Dec 09 20:11:36 <mikey|> s/was//
Dec 09 20:12:16 <mikey|> this can potentially be a large array of data
Dec 09 20:14:07 <infernix> fadden: the command that writes doesn't actually fail
Dec 09 20:14:38 <fadden> infernix: what's the indication that something has gone wrong?  Empty file?  Bad data inside?
Dec 09 20:14:45 <infernix> bad data+dmesg
Dec 09 20:15:13 <fadden> What does the bad data look like?  All zeroes?  Garbage?
Dec 09 20:15:23 <infernix> http://pastebin.ca/1280992
Dec 09 20:15:34 <infernix> i haven't looked actually, but md5sums differ
Dec 09 20:16:37 <gustavold> Hi, I'm not registered to Android Market and I'd like to know if the Android Dev Phone is available for sale at Brazil
Dec 09 20:17:00 <Disconnect> michaelnovakjr: devphones
Dec 09 20:17:03 <fadden> infernix: yeah that's pretty spectacular.
Dec 09 20:17:33 <Disconnect> gustavold: http://code.google.com/android/dev-devices.html
Dec 09 20:17:36 <Disconnect> it lists the countries
Dec 09 20:17:45 <fadden> SanMehat: lots of I/O errors and other fun
Dec 09 20:17:54 <SanMehat> fadden: waiting for pastebin.ca to get off its ass
Dec 09 20:18:09 <fadden> SanMehat: you know how those Canadians are
Dec 09 20:18:10 <gustavold> Disconnect: thank you
Dec 09 20:18:21 <infernix> i can reproduce it consistently
Dec 09 20:18:36 <grey-> Disconnect: huh, no Hong Kong.
Dec 09 20:18:49 <grey-> seems like an oversight; coolest cell phones I've ever seen were in hk.
Dec 09 20:19:06 <Disconnect> SanMehat: devphone countries is US, UK, Germany, Japan, India, Canada, France, Taiwan, Spain, Australia, Singapore, Switzerland, Netherlands, Austria, Sweden, Finland, Poland, and Hungary
Dec 09 20:19:15 <Disconnect> SanMehat: tell gustavold about devphone countries
Dec 09 20:19:31 <SanMehat> Disconnect: do you enjoy being annoying?
Dec 09 20:19:44 <SanMehat> infernix: email me the details and i'll help you debug it
Dec 09 20:19:56 <Disconnect> you said you'd step up to handle that, so i'm just expecting you to do so.
Dec 09 20:19:58 <fadden> Disconnect: he's (a) not a robot, and (b) ops, so (c) he can kick-ban you
Dec 09 20:20:09 <fadden> So be nice. :-)
Dec 09 20:20:22 <SanMehat> no.. i never said i'd do that. cut the crap.
Dec 09 20:20:43 <SanMehat> infernix: pm me and i'll help you with debugging it man.
Dec 09 20:22:36 <Disconnect> so what do you propose will suffice to make it simple to find and distribute short bits of information and news? we can't use the topic, its locked and goog never updates it. we can't use infobot or alternative bots. and *@google is fairly well useless to anyone who has a basic question.
Dec 09 20:23:16 <fadden> Disconnect: isn't that what blogs are for?
Dec 09 20:23:36 <Disconnect> and for the record, that mess of grey- trying to find a link was actually longer than when RyeBrye was abusing the unfortunately-named bot.
Dec 09 20:24:01 <Disconnect> fadden: ok. "what countries does the dev phone ship to?" "search the blogs" ... "thanks for nothing"
Dec 09 20:25:06 <Disconnect> ..for that matter, if blogs are there for short info blurbs you should wipe the topic down to "Android Discussion"
Dec 09 20:25:22 <Disconnect> all that info should be in blogs instead, where it is decentralized and difficult to find..
Dec 09 20:29:54 <Disconnect> fadden: ..
Dec 09 20:30:25 <fadden> ?  I was just going to let you rant.
Dec 09 20:30:45 <fadden> I succesfully suppressed my urge to troll.
Dec 09 20:31:14 <fadden> And I can't actually say that you're wrong for wanting the information to be more easily discoverable.
Dec 09 20:31:31 <SanMehat> fadden: sounds like his card has issues
Dec 09 20:31:43 <Disconnect> if you thing blogs are the correct place to hide indexes to information (much of which is blogs..) then it needs to be pulled from the topic as well
Dec 09 20:33:30 <fadden> SanMehat: any chance it's just a bad contact; something removing and reinserting would correct?
Dec 09 20:34:33 <SanMehat> fadden: its possible
Dec 09 20:35:30 <tretle> wohooo... vodafone joins open handset alliance, maybe this means I will soon have an android handset in ireland
Dec 09 20:35:32 <tretle> :D
Dec 09 20:41:24 <unix_lappy> anyone know of a B&M store where i can find screen covers for the G1?
Dec 09 20:42:29 <gustavold> :Q
Dec 09 20:43:05 <Disconnect> unix_lappy: most anywhere should have generics.
Dec 09 20:43:07 <Disconnect> cut to fit
Dec 09 20:44:52 <unix_lappy> Disconnect: like?
Dec 09 20:45:04 <unix_lappy> like a homedepot like place?
Dec 09 20:45:17 <Disconnect> radio shack. best buy. circuit city. ritz camera..
Dec 09 20:45:46 <unix_lappy> Disconnect: you've bought one
Dec 09 20:45:48 <unix_lappy> ?
Dec 09 20:46:23 <Disconnect> unix_lappy: yah shieldzone (use my link, there's a tinyurl somewhere but i think its in infobot. clearly it needs it's own blog post.)
Dec 09 20:46:51 <unix_lappy> nah i mean in store.
Dec 09 20:46:53 <Disconnect> fadden: btw we have an infostore consisting of a ton of one-line answers in web format. its called xda-dev and its mostly worthless...
Dec 09 20:47:14 <Disconnect> certainly it makes an incredibly poor index.
Dec 09 20:47:36 <fadden> Perhaps you should start Disconnect's Android FAQ.
Dec 09 20:48:08 <fadden> I had similar issues with information about CD recording about 13 years back.
Dec 09 20:48:31 <Disconnect> we don't need another faq. we need an index of short, useful pieces of information such as links, lists (such as countries) and so forth.
Dec 09 20:49:43 <tomgibara> Has anyone had any reports from end-users, that their application will 'magically' reinstall itself without user interaction?
Dec 09 20:50:08 <tomgibara> I have one user claiming just this.
Dec 09 20:50:10 <fadden> tomgibara: how do they know it has been reinstalled?
Dec 09 20:51:05 <tomgibara> fadden: They say that the installing icon independently appears in the notification bar and that the application re-appears in the home app drawer without any user interaction
Dec 09 20:51:14 <Disconnect> neat. you found another security hole.
Dec 09 20:51:35 <fadden> tomgibara: so they uninstalled it, and it came back?
Dec 09 20:52:01 <fadden> (as opposed to reinstall of an existing app to get an update)
Dec 09 20:52:16 <tomgibara> fadden: Yes, they say they tried uninstalling it via both the market and the settings, at it keeps coming back
Dec 09 20:53:10 <fadden> That's a little freaky.
Dec 09 20:53:34 <tomgibara> It has happened a number of times to them, on some occasions very frequently
Dec 09 20:53:41 <fadden> Always with your app?
Dec 09 20:53:46 <fadden> Or other apps too?
Dec 09 20:53:56 * jasta has a bug filed that could DoS a phone, requiring a boot into safe mode :)
Dec 09 20:54:12 <Disconnect> jasta: you mean installing dgaway? :)
Dec 09 20:54:42 <tomgibara> fadden: Its the Cooking Capsules application only (I assume) since she doesn't report this occuring with any other application.
Dec 09 20:54:43 <bgupta> Hey guys.. for those that haven't seen it yet the "Android FAQ" is taking shape here:  http://android-dls.com/wiki/index.php?title=Android_FAQ I still have, oh... 7-8 months of IRC logs to review, but it's already useful as it is.
Dec 09 20:54:50 <jasta> no, unrelated to this.  its just a bug that could let you permanently DoS a phone, causing it to forever reboot itself
Dec 09 20:55:04 <jasta> permanently until you boot to safe mode or whatever
Dec 09 20:55:28 <iulianb> Hello guys,
Dec 09 20:55:28 <iulianb> Is there someone around here that has some experience with OpenGL (on Android)?...I could really need some help
Dec 09 20:56:27 <fadden> tomgibara: I think downloads might restart if it thinks it failed for some reason.  Could be their device got into a weird state.
Dec 09 20:57:36 <tomgibara> I've written much of the app and know it well, I'm not aware of anything in the Cooking Capsules application that would come near to accounting for that behaviour. Yet, the user seems legitimately concerned, and competent enough to report the problem clearly.
Dec 09 20:57:42 <tomgibara> fadden: What should I suggest?
Dec 09 20:59:12 <fadden> tomgibara: I doubt this is app-specific.  More likely Cooking Capsules got (un)lucky.
Dec 09 21:00:01 <fadden> I don't know enough about the Market stuff to guess what the cause is or what a solution might be.
Dec 09 21:00:19 <fadden> e.g. I don't know if rebooting the phone will make any difference (though it might be useful).
Dec 09 21:00:24 <tomgibara> fadden: Perhaps I should ask morrildl? Doesn't he deal with the market?
Dec 09 21:00:30 <Disconnect> suggest they switch to using only open-source markets :)
Dec 09 21:01:00 <fadden> tomgibara: it's certainly worth raising the question with morrildl.
Dec 09 21:01:13 <tomgibara> fadden: Okay, thanks.
Dec 09 21:02:22 <Disconnect> thats a nice crash jasta :)
Dec 09 21:02:53 <jasta> yeah, you could of course DoS the phone with it :)
Dec 09 21:02:55 * Disconnect thinks we've just found the OSS kill-switch ;)
Dec 09 21:03:12 <jasta> please don't disclose that widely though, it was marked Security.
Dec 09 21:03:24 <Disconnect> "sorry, you are too dumb to own a phone. we're revoking your g1 privileges."
Dec 09 21:03:35 <Disconnect> [ok] [ok] .. rebootrebootreboot
Dec 09 21:03:37 <wastrel> hi
Dec 09 21:03:39 <igorgue> is it ok to ask something about the G1? (hardware question)?
Dec 09 21:03:53 <SanMehat> igorgue: shoot
Dec 09 21:04:58 <igorgue> do you think that a 1200mAh battery will make a big difference?
Dec 09 21:05:29 <SanMehat> dunno
Dec 09 21:06:37 <igorgue> they say I'd get like 5.5h talk time and 300h standby
Dec 09 21:07:45 <Disconnect> then maybe you will
Dec 09 21:07:54 <Disconnect> it depends on how loud you talk
Dec 09 21:08:34 <igorgue> hehe, actually I dont talk to much :P
Dec 09 21:09:09 <igorgue> I think battery is the only bad thing about the G1...
Dec 09 21:09:31 <igorgue> anyway, I'll try
Dec 09 21:09:39 <Disconnect> then you clearly haven't used it much :)
Dec 09 21:09:46 <igorgue> hehe
Dec 09 21:10:38 <igorgue> Disconnect: naa for the other "issues" get fixed by turning the phone off and on :P
Dec 09 21:10:49 <vol> the documentation for PowerManager is pretty wierd
Dec 09 21:10:53 <marix> igorgue,  you are talking about a 50mAh increase
Dec 09 21:11:09 <igorgue> marix: yes, is that too little?
Dec 09 21:11:11 <vol> btw, is this the best way to keep the screen on?
Dec 09 21:11:14 <marix> thats a drop in teh bucket you probably won't notice the difference
Dec 09 21:11:40 <igorgue> marix: thanks
Dec 09 21:11:56 <marix> np
Dec 09 21:13:56 <igorgue> then "# Up to 1200 mAh gains extra 5.5 TALKING hours or 300 STAND BY hours" is just BS :(
Dec 09 21:15:50 <Disconnect> um. it can't go 12 standby hours for most people. why would you believe 300?
Dec 09 21:15:57 <Disconnect> out of anything smaller than a car battery at least
Dec 09 21:17:14 <sparkle> now wait a sec
Dec 09 21:17:25 <sparkle> i was on a 4 hour concall on my g1 last night
Dec 09 21:17:28 <unix_lappy> Disconnect: "the battery is the only bad thing about the G1" ->"you clearly haven't used it much"
Dec 09 21:17:44 <sparkle> it claimed to still be at 70%
Dec 09 21:17:47 <unix_lappy> or his numbers were the topic of dispute?
Dec 09 21:18:07 <unix_lappy> i can do almost 36 hours on the G1 standby.
Dec 09 21:18:23 <unix_lappy> max 14 with mild use.
Dec 09 21:18:25 * Damm shrugs
Dec 09 21:18:30 <Damm> I hadn't charged my G1 since Friday Morning
Dec 09 21:18:33 <Damm> had to finally plug it in today
Dec 09 21:18:43 <Damm> it was only at 14%
Dec 09 21:18:54 <unix_lappy> Damm: standby?
Dec 09 21:19:06 <Damm> unix_lappy, no I used it... mainly text messages and email
Dec 09 21:19:08 <summatusmentis> http://gigaom.com/2008/12/09/sprint-getting-closer-to-android-phone/ !!!
Dec 09 21:19:26 <Damm> don't use voice much
Dec 09 21:24:27 <igorgue> Damm: if you use the browser then your battery life will end in like 3 hours :(
Dec 09 21:25:42 <Damm> igorgue, I use the browser.
Dec 09 21:25:56 <Damm> technically I use Opera more then the Webkit one
Dec 09 21:26:05 <igorgue> Damm: in my experience its hard to believe...
Dec 09 21:26:14 <igorgue> ahh maybe its that
Dec 09 21:26:20 <igorgue> but I don't think so
Dec 09 21:26:30 <Damm> igorgue, I just don't understand why you guys go through battery life so much.
Dec 09 21:26:57 <Damm> I reboot the phone whenever i'm done with the browser/or any other application (except for messaging)
Dec 09 21:26:58 <jbq> Damm won the lottery and got the platinum battery that was used in battery tests.
Dec 09 21:27:12 <marix> platinum,  thats bling blig
Dec 09 21:27:14 <igorgue> Damm: I come from a non-smart phone... I was used to not charge it for a week :P
Dec 09 21:27:28 <Damm> igorgue, I have a Sony Ericsson Z750a, it lasts a week without a charge.
Dec 09 21:27:33 <marix> igorgue,  get a blackberry if you needs days of battery life
Dec 09 21:27:45 <Disconnect> or he reboots it all the time
Dec 09 21:27:48 <Damm> G1 is my 2ndary phone... mainly for nagios, and work crap.
Dec 09 21:27:49 <Disconnect> and he has a good calibration
Dec 09 21:27:56 <Damm> Disconnect, I do reboot A TON.
Dec 09 21:27:56 <igorgue> marix: I'm not complaining, I like the phone a lot
Dec 09 21:28:00 <Damm> like 3-5x a day
Dec 09 21:28:01 <igorgue> the G1
Dec 09 21:28:26 <Disconnect> igorgue: ask sanmehat or michaelnovakjr for a link about battery calibration, it helps a lot
Dec 09 21:28:45 <marix> igorgue,  im not saying you don't it just seems that one of the g1 weaknesses is battery life,  an issue blackberry's don't typically have.
Dec 09 21:28:50 <igorgue> SanMehat, michaelnovakjr: ping
Dec 09 21:28:53 <blau-MikeDG> michaelnovakjr is the new bot?
Dec 09 21:29:05 <Damm> if rebooting 6-8x a day is helping my battery life... that's just sad
Dec 09 21:29:14 <blau-MikeDG> michaelnovakjr, commands
Dec 09 21:29:46 <michaelnovakjr__> Disconnect just is being annoying for whatever reason
Dec 09 21:29:51 <igorgue> I don't know, maybe what is needed is a "killing apps" application
Dec 09 21:30:03 <michaelnovakjr__> Still mad about his bot
Dec 09 21:30:05 <Damm> igorgue, we had that when we had root.
Dec 09 21:30:12 <Damm> until that was taken away
Dec 09 21:30:16 <SanMehat> Damm: sounds like you may have hardware issues
Dec 09 21:30:23 <SanMehat> Damm: can you get me some crashdumps?
Dec 09 21:30:26 <blau-MikeDG> i didnt find the bots to be annoying
Dec 09 21:30:28 <SanMehat> I'd be happy to look into it
Dec 09 21:30:32 <igorgue> yeah... some people didn't like | want root power
Dec 09 21:30:34 <Damm> SanMehat, no I intentionally reboot 6-8x a day.
Dec 09 21:30:41 <Damm> to remove running applications
Dec 09 21:30:49 <SanMehat> Damm: uhm. why?
Dec 09 21:31:15 <Damm> SanMehat, only sane way to remove get browser, opera, etc to quit
Dec 09 21:31:23 <jasta> why do you care if inactive processes die?
Dec 09 21:31:39 <jasta> whenever the oom killer wants more memory, itll happy take it from them.
Dec 09 21:31:40 <Damm> jasta, insanity is the best way to describe it.
Dec 09 21:31:46 <sparkle> in most cases they quiesce without an issue
Dec 09 21:31:52 <blau-MikeDG> apps existing in memory do not waste battery power
Dec 09 21:32:06 <SanMehat> thanks guys :)
Dec 09 21:32:07 <blau-MikeDG> unless they actually do something
Dec 09 21:32:09 <jasta> Damm: if you really want to kill them for some sinister reason, why not write an app which gobbles up all your phones memory on command, causing the oom killer to nuke everything?
Dec 09 21:32:25 <Damm> jasta, wouldn't that kill the UI sometimes?
Dec 09 21:32:28 <fadden> jasta: use android.os.Debug.startMethodTracing with a 32MB buffer
Dec 09 21:32:31 <fadden> Works great. :-)
Dec 09 21:32:35 <blau-MikeDG> jasta: that idea is awesome!
Dec 09 21:32:36 <swetland> if the app is misbehaving there *can* be an issue.  there's ongoing work to provide some tools to the endusers to understand if they've got apps that are doing lousy things and deal with them
Dec 09 21:32:38 <jasta> Damm: "kill the UI"?
Dec 09 21:32:41 <blau-MikeDG> ill be top of the market soon!
Dec 09 21:32:56 <Damm> jasta, the X server or whatever it uses for the phone's UI
Dec 09 21:32:57 <SanMehat> blau-MikeDG: haha
Dec 09 21:33:06 <jasta> uhm, no.
Dec 09 21:33:08 <Damm> usually OOM can take out random processes and be deadly.
Dec 09 21:33:16 <Disconnect> ..this isn't usually
Dec 09 21:33:20 * vol murders Damm
Dec 09 21:33:27 <SanMehat> Damm: we thought about that.
Dec 09 21:33:29 <jasta> Damm: the OOM killer will nuke your misbehaving app before it disrupts the framework itself
Dec 09 21:33:30 <swetland> it's very rare the OOM actually runs
Dec 09 21:33:33 <Damm> usually takes out sshd for me... or apache (but usually apache is the issue)
Dec 09 21:33:43 <Damm> jasta, ah neat.
Dec 09 21:33:48 <jasta> swetland: really?  i have seen it run in practice quite a few times.
Dec 09 21:33:49 <swetland> the low memory killer generally runs first and it has more specific rules about what to nuke
Dec 09 21:33:51 <Disconnect> what it does is take out the home app. so it'll take almost as long to get to the home screen as it takes to reboot
Dec 09 21:33:51 <SanMehat> Damm: system processes are immune to the killer
Dec 09 21:34:01 <Damm> SanMehat, that works then :)
Dec 09 21:34:10 <Disconnect> and something out there tends to cause it to take forever to unlock, too. always fun.
Dec 09 21:34:13 <jasta> swetland: oh, nevermind i didn't know you were being so granular.  does the low memory killer look at oom_adj as well?
Dec 09 21:34:13 <Damm> such detail
Dec 09 21:34:19 <swetland> jasta: there's the kernel OOM killer and the low memory driver that registers as a cache and generally gets invoked before the low level OOM killer hits
Dec 09 21:34:22 <swetland> jasta: yup
Dec 09 21:35:00 <SanMehat> the only time i've seen the system *really* OOM was when in early development
Dec 09 21:35:15 <blau-MikeDG> whats everyones favorite way to use up memory?
Dec 09 21:35:20 <SanMehat> dont think i've seen it run in months :)
Dec 09 21:35:21 <Disconnect> blau-MikeDG: browser
Dec 09 21:35:27 <blau-MikeDG> programatically
Dec 09 21:35:33 <jbq> blau-MikeDG: browser with half a dozen tabs with complex pages.
Dec 09 21:35:38 <_Lunch> Does anyone know what a "Leaked IntentReciever" is
Dec 09 21:35:51 <jbq> blau-MikeDG: from within dalvik you can't use enough in a single app to hurt the system that much.
Dec 09 21:36:04 <blau-MikeDG> jbq: cant cause it to shut down the non essential apps?
Dec 09 21:36:17 <jasta> _Lunch: it means you called registerReceiver, but did not call unregisterReceiver :)
Dec 09 21:36:25 <jbq> You'll get a few removed, but not to the point where you're the only one running.
Dec 09 21:36:30 <blau-MikeDG> eh it doesnt actually have to work for me to get street cred
Dec 09 21:36:40 <blau-MikeDG> :)
Dec 09 21:36:43 <michaelnovakjr__> Huh
Dec 09 21:36:51 <jbq> You'd need to get probably 3 or 4 different apps hogging RAM at the same time to wipe everything clean (but then they'd wipe one another so it's not that reliable)
Dec 09 21:37:09 <fadden> jbq: see my earlier note about the method tracing call
Dec 09 21:37:12 * sparkle nods
Dec 09 21:37:13 <Disconnect> browser manages to kill everything else off by itself and its just one app
Dec 09 21:37:22 <jasta> also, if Damm thinks that killing processes is good for battery life then gobbling up memory and firing the low memory killer won't help his situation :)
Dec 09 21:37:31 <jasta> neither will rebooting :)
Dec 09 21:37:40 <fadden> rebooting is fairly expensive, battery-wise
Dec 09 21:37:45 <michaelnovakjr__> Indeed
Dec 09 21:37:55 <fadden> Somebody measured it once, but I can't remember the result.
Dec 09 21:38:13 <jasta> i dont think that surprises anyone fadden.
Dec 09 21:38:21 <jasta> i mean, that its expensive, not that you cant rmemeber hehe
Dec 09 21:39:02 <jbq> Disconnect: that's because the browser's WebKit backend uses straight native memory instead of going through Dalvik, so it doesn't benefit from the Dalvik protection.
Dec 09 21:39:02 <swetland> if you've worked with fadden, the latter would not be surprising either ^^
Dec 09 21:39:08 <Disconnect> nice
Dec 09 21:39:10 * swetland ducks
Dec 09 21:39:26 <fadden> Sad but true.  There's a reason why my source files tend to start with a short novel.
Dec 09 21:39:39 <swetland> I've been known to include comments
Dec 09 21:39:47 <SanMehat> swetland: hahahaha
Dec 09 21:39:52 <fadden> swetland: name one
Dec 09 21:39:54 <swetland> hell, just today I wrote *documentation* for you people
Dec 09 21:39:56 <swetland> http://source.android.com/documentation/building-for-dream
Dec 09 21:40:14 <swetland> fadden: bootimg.h is mostly a comment!
Dec 09 21:40:16 <SanMehat> ok he's def earned points for that.
Dec 09 21:40:33 <SanMehat> swetland: at least i scrubbed all the swears out of my comments...
Dec 09 21:40:44 <fadden> ASCII art doesn't count.
Dec 09 21:40:55 <summatusmentis> any future android devices (assuming there's a cdma one at some point), will we get dev versions of those too?
Dec 09 21:41:11 <swetland> it'll depend on the device
Dec 09 21:41:36 <swetland> *some* devices might be as open as the developer device out of the box
Dec 09 21:41:39 <summatusmentis> I'm thinking of a future sprint device, but I suppose you can't really answer that question
Dec 09 21:41:40 <swetland> (wouldn't that be nice!)
Dec 09 21:41:56 <swetland> yup, can't talk about unreleased products, speculation, etc, or they shoot me
Dec 09 21:42:08 <summatusmentis> right, that makes sense
Dec 09 21:42:13 <snadge> is there instructions for flashing the developer version of android onto a t-mobile g1 which is still at rc28?
Dec 09 21:42:15 <tomgibara> Does anyone know if the new IMF/IME features will incorporate a standard implementation?
Dec 09 21:42:32 <Disconnect> snadge: yah. /msg infobot devphones and follow the retail upgrade link
Dec 09 21:42:48 <Disconnect> once you have the bootloader on you can do whatever you want with the dev version
Dec 09 21:42:52 <jbq> tomgibara: there'll be a soft keyboard (with the associated goodies)
Dec 09 21:43:30 <Disconnect> there used to be a much easier way. but the new "right way" is to tell you to go search for it. i thought i'd split the difference..
Dec 09 21:43:39 <Disconnect> (easier way to get the info i mean)
Dec 09 21:43:45 <summatusmentis> swetland: can you comment on likelihood of a open (developer-wise) phone in the future, beyond the current G1 offering?
Dec 09 21:44:13 <vol> summatusmentis: there are pre-rooted G1s for sale, you know :P
Dec 09 21:44:22 <vol> make a marketplace account, and you can buy one for $400
Dec 09 21:44:25 <tomgibara> jbq: Interesting, I'm looking forward to seeing the design. I have a half finished one which does auto-correction etc. which I was thinking of finishing off.
Dec 09 21:44:58 <summatusmentis> vol: I'm aware, I don't have GSM coverage, so I'm being nosy about future non-gsm products :-P
Dec 09 21:45:29 <blount> summatusmentis: you'd be better off asking operators directly :-)
Dec 09 21:45:43 <summatusmentis> haha, kinda what I assumed
Dec 09 21:45:44 <AstainHellbring> summatusmentis http://www.engadgetmobile.com/2008/12/09/googles-rich-miner-to-deliver-keynote-at-sprints-mobile-develo/
Dec 09 21:45:56 <summatusmentis> AstainHellbring: I just saw that :-D very excited
Dec 09 21:46:25 <AstainHellbring> yep very sweet
Dec 09 21:46:49 <tomgibara> I'm really interested in finding out whether there's a clever way of designing a soft keyboard so that it will support two thumbed typing on Android.
Dec 09 21:47:53 * mikey| patiently waits for someone to /quit
Dec 09 21:48:10 <michaelnovakjr> ?
Dec 09 21:48:14 <mikey|> testing something
Dec 09 21:48:19 <michaelnovakjr> ...
Dec 09 21:48:31 <summatusmentis> mikey|irc: you can use /ghost on a registered nick
Dec 09 21:48:36 <mikey|> had to start again because i broke teh code
Dec 09 21:48:45 <mikey|> summatusmentis: lol, thats not it
Dec 09 21:48:49 <summatusmentis> oh
Dec 09 21:49:21 <snadge> ok so the engineering bootloader has nothing to do with the dev phonee
Dec 09 21:49:34 <snadge> it just allows you to boot whatever you want, kind of like grub
Dec 09 21:50:04 <Disconnect> nothing directly, as in it didn't come from one. but it gives the same capabilities
Dec 09 21:50:42 <snadge> are you able to boot the official rc30 with it, but still keep your root access?
Dec 09 21:51:32 <Disconnect> official rc30 has no root. but you can flash rc30 and then flash back to rc29 or jf-rc30 etc
Dec 09 21:52:14 <snadge> i see.. so what revision will the dev phone have on it.. obviously not the same rc30 if it allows root?
Dec 09 21:52:37 <snadge> nobody has one yet?
Dec 09 21:54:08 <Disconnect> nobody has one. and rc30 is a closed-source tmobile fork.
Dec 09 21:54:26 <Disconnect> the dev phone will have stuff from the open source tree (well, once they make it available to the outside world)
Dec 09 21:55:07 <snadge> the next q is.. is the dev hardware exactly the same as tmobiles g1.. ie.. will we be able to take a rooted tmob g1, and stick the open version of g1 android on it?
Dec 09 21:55:59 <marix> disconnect,  won't they require the source be available when people receive their adp1's?  per licensing agreements
Dec 09 21:56:07 <Disconnect> marix: ...read the license again.
Dec 09 21:56:16 <Disconnect> its bsd-style. there is no promise of source at all.
Dec 09 21:56:58 <marix> disconnect,  you need a law degree to get around all the different licensing structures,  i give up.
Dec 09 21:57:06 <snadge> reason im asking, is im thinking i might be best waiting until the dev phone stuff is released, before flashing/updating my tmobile g1.. had i known about the dev versions, i would've held off on the purchase.. if i can flash my tmobile g1, so that its equivalent (minus the artwork on the back case).. i'll be happy
Dec 09 21:57:23 <Disconnect> i don't particularly agree with the categorization of bsd as an "open source" license (vs "open source projects" that use it..) but there ya go..
Dec 09 21:57:43 * sparkle shrugs
Dec 09 21:57:57 <sparkle> it's hard to argue that it's less open than the gpl, just as it's hard to argue that public domain is less open than anything
Dec 09 21:58:00 <sparkle> it's less viral for sure
Dec 09 21:58:12 <snadge> im sticking with RC28 and pressing the annoying dismiss button every 20 minutes or so
Dec 09 21:58:50 <snadge> until theres some definitive guide to loading the dev version on it
Dec 09 21:59:03 <summatusmentis> sparkle: well, arguably the virality makes the openness
Dec 09 21:59:26 <sparkle> it depends on if you look at the openness as the state of what can be done with the code, or an ideology
Dec 09 22:00:18 <snadge> how long will it take for people from here to start getting their dev phones? :P
Dec 09 22:00:27 <sparkle> if i release code into the public domain, and someone rereleases it under the gpl, do their restrictions create more openness?
Dec 09 22:00:30 <sparkle> it's weird
Dec 09 22:00:33 <sparkle> but i don't want to get into a license rant :p
Dec 09 22:00:37 <BlindOracle> sparkle: rumor has it in three days
Dec 09 22:00:41 <Disconnect> sparkle: hence my distinction between "open source license" (a license that produces open source) and "open source project" (a project that does same)
Dec 09 22:00:43 <summatusmentis> sparkle: true. I like that gpl lends itself to modifications must also be open, as I think it helps further open source.
Dec 09 22:00:47 <meyou> sparkle: prior art
Dec 09 22:01:15 <sparkle> meyou: what?
Dec 09 22:01:16 * summatusmentis didn't mean to start a license rant
Dec 09 22:01:20 <Disconnect> lots of open source -projects- are bsd. but i can take it, literally with no changes, and close it. (or with dozens of changes, of course..) thats hardly an open source license.
Dec 09 22:01:41 <meyou> sparkle: if you take something bsd licensed, you can't license it as GPL after the fact
Dec 09 22:01:46 <meyou> because there's prior art
Dec 09 22:01:57 <vol> I'm not sure that's the word you're looking for.
Dec 09 22:01:59 <sparkle> meyou: i never referred to that
Dec 09 22:02:00 <snadge> unless all the authors agree to a dual license
Dec 09 22:02:03 * sparkle shakes head
Dec 09 22:02:05 <Disconnect> meyou: thats not what prior art means. and actually you can take bsd and license it as gpl. you can't go the other way.
Dec 09 22:02:11 <BlindOracle> sparkle: it was said they ship 3-days after order is received
Dec 09 22:02:22 <meyou> [14:00:27] <sparkle> if i release code into the public domain, and someone rereleases it under the gpl, do their restrictions create more openness?
Dec 09 22:02:36 <sparkle> what do the words "public domain" mean to you?
Dec 09 22:02:46 <sparkle> that means free of all encumberances
Dec 09 22:02:58 <meyou> i'll let you answer for me i suppose
Dec 09 22:03:12 <sparkle> look at what happened when
Dec 09 22:03:12 <sparkle> well
Dec 09 22:03:19 <sparkle> tatu ylonen released the original ssh
Dec 09 22:04:02 <meyou> you seemed to be implying that you'd take something from the public domain, release it under the GPL, and presto! open source enforcement
Dec 09 22:04:03 <Disconnect> rather, you can dual-license the new one. such that people who get it from you have the option of original ver under bsd or new ver under gpl.
Dec 09 22:04:17 <BlindOracle> what fs does the g1 use? I assume fat on the sd?
Dec 09 22:04:20 <meyou> if that wasn't the case...my mistake
Dec 09 22:04:31 <sparkle> meyou: that's what you get, but only for works derived from your gpl release
Dec 09 22:04:54 <sparkle> if you take pd code, release a version under the gpl - work derived from that gpl codebase is gpl
Dec 09 22:05:07 <BlindOracle> sparkle: that's correct
Dec 09 22:05:18 <sparkle> in the example of ssh - when openssh forked the project under gpl, initially it didn't mean much
Dec 09 22:05:28 <Nafai> BlindOracle: vfat on the sd and yaffs2 on the internal memory
Dec 09 22:05:44 <sparkle> but as people contributed, the openssh codebase moved away from the ssh 1.1.9
Dec 09 22:06:04 <sparkle> anyone could still go back to the original ssh codebase and rework it under a different license
Dec 09 22:06:22 * sparkle shrugs
Dec 09 22:06:43 <sparkle> bsd style licenses give code a wider chance to spread and be used, especially in commercial organizations
Dec 09 22:06:46 <sparkle> but
Dec 09 22:06:51 <sparkle> they leave it less exposed
Dec 09 22:06:58 <sparkle> it's not a simple choice
Dec 09 22:07:22 <BlindOracle> Nafai: Thanks. That sounds like a neat FS
Dec 09 22:07:36 <Nafai> BlindOracle: Yeah, don't really know anything about yaffs2
Dec 09 22:07:44 <BlindOracle> Nafai: sure beats the self corrupting crap we I used to have to use on VxWorks
Dec 09 22:08:03 <BlindOracle> I just visited http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/YAFFS
Dec 09 22:08:57 <Nafai> Cool, looks interesting
Dec 09 22:12:42 <blau-MikeDG> sweet i made a google desktop like search bar
Dec 09 22:13:09 <Nafai> Screenshots!
Dec 09 22:13:15 <Nafai> Need testers? :)
Dec 09 22:13:36 <blau-MikeDG> nafai: if you wanna test sned me a mail at vinblau@gmail.com
Dec 09 22:14:24 <blau-MikeDG> just wanna make sure you understand what it is first though, hit a keyboard shortcut and you can type website urls, program names and then it pops a list of relevant things that you can pick, some more stuff will be added, like product searches
Dec 09 22:14:53 <Nafai> Yeah, I want something like that :)
Dec 09 22:16:58 <blau-MikeDG> ok cool
Dec 09 22:17:02 <blau-MikeDG> i thought i was the only one :)
Dec 09 22:17:05 <blau-MikeDG> lol
Dec 09 22:17:31 <Nafai> I've used -- even written -- a similar utility to switch between apps on my desktop machine
Dec 09 22:28:25 <blau-MikeDG> ok cool
Dec 09 22:28:53 <blau-MikeDG> i have some memory concerns over how i cache the available apps so itll be good  to have another tester
Dec 09 22:30:08 <blau-MikeDG> ill keep in touch
Dec 09 22:30:15 <Nafai> Thanks!
Dec 09 22:31:19 <blau-MikeDG> do you have the sdk and are capable of using adb to put a program on your g1
Dec 09 22:31:26 <blau-MikeDG> or will i need to host the file on a web server?
Dec 09 22:31:26 <Nafai> Yes
Dec 09 22:31:30 <blau-MikeDG> ok cool
Dec 09 22:31:42 <Nafai> I plan on doing development myself soon
Dec 09 22:34:19 <blau-MikeDG> cool
Dec 09 22:46:26 <trippss> so is there a way to kill an app that stops responding yet? hate to have to reboot my phone every time.
Dec 09 22:49:47 <BlindOracle`> trippss: does kill not work
Dec 09 22:50:59 <trippss> BlindOracle, how do I do that? wasn't familiar of a kill feature
Dec 09 22:51:49 <BlindOracle> trippss: can you connect to your phone via a shell?
Dec 09 22:52:33 <BlindOracle> trippss: I *assume* adb is used for this
Dec 09 22:53:34 <trippss> BlindOracle, oh - I'll try that - wasn't able to do that before. adb? using pterminal. trying to kill or HUP the browser
Dec 09 22:53:36 * BlindOracle wants to clarify I'm talking out my back pocket here...but I *assume* "adb shell" will connect to your phone and provide root access
Dec 09 22:53:52 <BlindOracle> android-sdk-linux_x86-1.0_r2/tools/adb
Dec 09 22:55:01 <trippss> BlindOracle, is that a link or a dir in the sdk tarball I can d/l from android site?
Dec 09 22:55:03 <BlindOracle> trippss: it does appear it will work over usb device too
Dec 09 22:55:18 <BlindOracle> that's path in the d/l'able SDK
Dec 09 22:56:04 <BlindOracle> trippss: http://code.google.com/android/download.html
Dec 09 22:56:04 <Nafai> BlindOracle: Unfortunately, with RC30, kill won't work because of the non-root issue
Dec 09 22:56:17 <BlindOracle> Nafai: even for user apps?
Dec 09 22:56:30 <Nafai> Each app runs as a different user
Dec 09 22:56:33 <Damm> BlindOracle, each user runs as a different userid
Dec 09 22:56:33 <trippss> BlindOracle, ah - I'm using RC30
Dec 09 22:56:41 <Damm> app_37, app_13, etc
Dec 09 22:56:48 <BlindOracle> wow
Dec 09 22:57:01 <Damm> they run in their own sandbox also
Dec 09 22:57:05 <trippss> appears browser is running as app_3
Dec 09 22:57:08 <trippss> in my case
Dec 09 22:57:29 <BlindOracle> trippss: sorry man
Dec 09 22:58:28 <trippss> so the answer to my question is no, I guess :-| reboot again! ugh . . .
Dec 09 22:58:39 <trippss> BlindOracle, appreciate the help tho!
Dec 09 22:58:52 <BlindOracle> trippss: you can considering it frequent coffee break. ;)
Dec 09 22:58:58 <BlindOracle> considering = consider
Dec 09 22:59:21 <DJTachyon> haha anybody tried running the Quake Web App with Google's x86 Browser Plugin?
Dec 09 23:00:03 <DJTachyon> very cool stuff..
Dec 09 23:00:27 <trippss> the browser really trips up on proxies when you're running on a wap that uses redirects and then leave that wap. constantly wants to redir to that proxy. we definitely need to be able to close/kill apps like any linux device IMHO
Dec 09 23:00:37 <BlindOracle> DJTachyon: haven't tried it...seems like a great way to close off and slow down web services adoption to the exclusion of other platforms.
Dec 09 23:00:44 <mikey|irc> is it ok to take screenshot of this chan?
Dec 09 23:00:57 <DJTachyon> i consider it to be a technology demonstration
Dec 09 23:01:10 <DJTachyon> more than a commercial adoption platform
Dec 09 23:01:20 <DJTachyon> i'm pretty sure Google does as well ..
Dec 09 23:01:22 <BlindOracle> trippss: on the emulator, simply visiting http://popsci.com causes the emulator to die.
Dec 09 23:01:29 <Nafai> trippss: It would be nice if you could do something like that from the task manager that comes up with you long press the home button
Dec 09 23:01:36 <BlindOracle> trippss: on the emulator, simply visiting http://popsci.com causes the *browser to die.
Dec 09 23:01:55 <Nafai> trippss: long press on the application icon in the task manager and an option would come up to allow you to kill the app
Dec 09 23:02:14 <trippss> Nafai, yes that would be cool
Dec 09 23:02:35 <BlindOracle> Nafai: nice to know
Dec 09 23:02:55 <Nafai> BlindOracle: That's what I would *like* it to do :)
Dec 09 23:04:03 <trippss> even if they didn't want to do that for casual users, using terminal to kill a userspace process would be awesome
Dec 09 23:04:14 <BlindOracle> Nafai: doh. I'm tired...been a long day. I misread that.
Dec 09 23:04:25 <Nafai> :)
Dec 09 23:05:12 <jasta> what is this obsession with manually killing apps?
Dec 09 23:05:28 <jasta> if you dont trust the apps you are using to behave themselves when idling, then uninstall them.
Dec 09 23:05:39 <BlindOracle> a calendar doesn't come on g1?
Dec 09 23:05:42 <jasta> or politely ask the developer to fix them
Dec 09 23:05:45 <fadden> jasta: s/idling/asleep/
Dec 09 23:05:48 <jasta> BlindOracle: yes, it does.  it syncs with google calendar.
Dec 09 23:05:57 <trippss> jasta, um, uninstalling the browser would be kinda difficult
Dec 09 23:06:07 <jasta> fadden: they aren't asleep, necessarily.  at least, they don't need to be.  that is why you have to trust them :)
Dec 09 23:06:16 <fadden> jasta: fair enough
Dec 09 23:06:36 <jasta> trippss: you don't trust the browser to behave while idle?
Dec 09 23:06:44 <trippss> jasta, i trust it just fine. when it stops working, I would like to kill it like I can on my linux desktop
Dec 09 23:06:58 <trippss> jasta, i trust it fine - when it is no longer responsive I have no choice but to reboot
Dec 09 23:07:06 <BlindOracle> jasta: talking about misbehaved apps
Dec 09 23:07:13 <trippss> jasta, there will *always* be bugs in apps.
Dec 09 23:07:24 <jasta> yes, of course, have you filed a bug?
Dec 09 23:07:51 <trippss> jasta, not yet, tho in this particular case the circumstances are likely to never occur in the known universe ;)
Dec 09 23:08:15 <jasta> it is more helpful for everyone if you just file a bug and the issue gets fixed.  this would be better time spent for all than anyone giving you a kill switch.
Dec 09 23:08:39 <trippss> jasta, it was a browser -> gears -> gps -> wap proxy -> G3 culmination of factors
Dec 09 23:08:50 <jasta> doesn't mean there isn't a bug worth filing
Dec 09 23:09:10 <BlindOracle> jasta: where does one file a bug?
Dec 09 23:09:30 <jasta> in my experience, the google developers are very receptive of proper bug reports.  many will even offer to debug with you in real time here on irc.
Dec 09 23:09:34 <trippss> jasta, agreed. I just think for power users I still want this control. that's why I choose linux. That's why I chose the G1 over the iphone. The users have clearly spoken on this issue ad nauseum.
Dec 09 23:09:37 <jasta> BlindOracle: b.android.com
Dec 09 23:10:51 <jasta> trippss: as a fellow linxu user, i humbly disagree.  i do not want nor expect my phone to be analogous to my computer.  and even in this case, i'd love it if my linux workstation could do a better job managing state and memory on its own.
Dec 09 23:11:23 <jbq> isn't the iPhone running a variant of MacOS, which in turn shares a fair bit with FreeBSD?
Dec 09 23:11:30 <Nafai> jbq: Yes
Dec 09 23:11:41 <Nafai> jasta: b.android.com also where I would put feature requests for apps?
Dec 09 23:11:56 <jasta> Nafai: so long as the OHA developed them, yes.
Dec 09 23:12:53 <trippss> jasta, I don't disagree with you in principal of course. I do wish it did a better job. However, there will always be an issue. so, better to kill app or have to reboot? That is ultimately the 2 choices you have. I prefer kill the app.
Dec 09 23:13:15 <trippss> s/principal/principle/
Dec 09 23:13:20 <jasta> those arent the 2 choices: you also have, fix the problem that caused you to make that choice in the first place.
Dec 09 23:13:24 <jasta> and i choose that.
Dec 09 23:13:30 <trippss> jasta, um, wrong ;)
Dec 09 23:13:38 <unix_lappy> i'm of the opinion that if the iPhone tried to manage memory and state like the G1 it would over tax itself.
Dec 09 23:14:27 <grey-> yeah multitasking is really hard; I mean it's only what... 50 years old?
Dec 09 23:14:30 <trippss> jasta, that is a complete non sequitur and impossibility of course, as you don't know about the bug until it presents itself. *at that moment* you have only two choices. I prefer kill the app.
Dec 09 23:14:36 <Nafai> I agree with jasta here.  Yes, it would be nice to have the ability to kill rogue processes, etc.  But it would also be nice to have well-behaved apps that don't require such things.
Dec 09 23:14:40 <grey-> iphone totally couldn't do it.
Dec 09 23:15:08 <unix_lappy> grey-: it's 50 years old and I'd wager a fair sum of money that not more than 10% of people could explain it well enough to come to a concensus on what it really means / is.
Dec 09 23:15:23 <grey-> Nafai: when you find a platform that has well behaved apps that don't need manual killing, let me know.
Dec 09 23:15:28 <alexissoft> if sb is interested : i'm developing a port knocking client for android :)
Dec 09 23:15:30 <trippss> Nafai, I agree also in principle. however it is an impossible reality. So, reboot or kill app? that's what it will always come down to.
Dec 09 23:15:39 <grey-> Nafai: job control is also about 50 years old at least; going back to multitasking and timesharing systems.
Dec 09 23:15:45 <andyross1> To be fair: I've run a ton of benchmarking of my own apps on the G1, and have yet to see an out-of-control application eating CPU or memory.  The built-in software stack, and what apps I've installed, have been uniformly pretty good about things.  Not that I don't want owner root access either, but the "kill the app" canard isn't really justified in my experience.
Dec 09 23:15:46 <Nafai> I know, I know
Dec 09 23:16:33 <trippss> another suggestion with a kill feature would be to dump the stack and other debug info to submit along with a bug report. a great compromise IMHO
Dec 09 23:16:57 <grey-> andyross1: I have had different experiences even with the stock SMS app.  To the point where it became so unresponsive even the force close/wait wouldn't work nor power off and I needed to pop the battery.
Dec 09 23:17:25 <grey-> ommiting job control imnsho is about on par with ommiting copy+paste.
Dec 09 23:17:41 <unix_lappy> on par...hardly.
Dec 09 23:17:48 <grey-> [albeit iphone also omits multitasking which is ridiculous]
Dec 09 23:17:55 <grey-> unix_lappy: *shrug* worse?
Dec 09 23:18:06 <jasta> trippss: regardless, my suggestion is plausible, yours isn't.  go buy a dev phone if you want that choice.  or get a phone iwth hacked root on it.
Dec 09 23:18:24 <grey-> jasta: hacked root is different.
Dec 09 23:18:39 <trippss> jasta, that would be like ubuntu saying, if you want to do su activities, go buy a dev pc
Dec 09 23:18:47 <trippss> ridiculous IMO
Dec 09 23:18:52 <andyross1> Meh.  I wouldn't complain if there were a "running apps" list somewhere.   But let's be honest here: probably 95% of the people who would actually use this feature will be running either rooted phones or development devices and don't need it.
Dec 09 23:18:55 <unix_lappy> grey-: dunno, you tell me. is the UX on the G1 without job control *worse* than the UX on the iPhone without copy/paste.
Dec 09 23:19:06 <grey-> unix_lappy: hahaha
Dec 09 23:19:07 <jasta> trippss: you can think its ridiculous all you want, it will not change anything.
Dec 09 23:19:11 <grey-> unix_lappy: I don't have an iphone.
Dec 09 23:19:20 <andyross1> There are a thousand reasons to want root on the device.  Killing processes is, like, 785th.
Dec 09 23:19:25 <jbq> It would be good to have some auto-detection of some odd behaviors (and specifically threads that run in app processes that aren't hosting any active Android component).
Dec 09 23:19:30 <unix_lappy> grey-: excellent, you cant speak to user experience...
Dec 09 23:19:32 <grey-> unix_lappy: but I can't even remember an OS I've used w/o job control.
Dec 09 23:19:42 <grey-> unix_lappy: maybe something from the early 80's that didn't do multitasking.
Dec 09 23:19:53 <dcordes> http://laforge.gnumonks.org/weblog/2008/12/09/#20081209-google_htc_android_g1
Dec 09 23:19:54 <andyross1> grey-: PalmOS?  Symbian?
Dec 09 23:20:02 <unix_lappy> grey-: because everyone who is old enough to remember an OS without job control dreamed of an OS that didnt need it so they wouldnt have to implement it to begin with.
Dec 09 23:20:09 <dcordes> propaganda sidenote
Dec 09 23:20:14 <grey-> andyross1: never used palmos, symbian has [shitty] job control/force kill.
Dec 09 23:20:17 <unix_lappy> pardon the use of obscure pronouns.
Dec 09 23:20:25 <grey-> unix_lappy: let's not even start there.
Dec 09 23:20:54 <grey-> unix_lappy: don't get me wrong, I think that garbage collection and sane environments are good, but they don't obviate the fundamental design needs either.
Dec 09 23:21:15 <trippss> there is no doubt that android is light years beyond any other phone OS. however why use those comparisons to decide what we want in it?
Dec 09 23:21:15 <grey-> unix_lappy: that said, g1 does have job control, my gripe is it's not explicitly available to endusers.
Dec 09 23:21:31 <andyross1> Again, regular users don't *do* job control (on their phones or their desktop PCs).  It's just not a stop-ship misfeature, regardless of what you think about it.  And if you want it for your phone, you almost certainly have it already, no?
Dec 09 23:21:42 <grey-> andyross1: ??? are you shitting me?
Dec 09 23:21:59 <grey-> andyross1: I need to force quit/kill/task-manager apps on a daily basis with any consumer OS I run.
Dec 09 23:22:05 <grey-> andyross1: and I'm not alone.
Dec 09 23:22:10 <trippss> i would dream of joining a symbian IRC chat and asking for a feature, because I know it's pointless. it's precisely the awesomeness that is android that prompts me to do it here
Dec 09 23:22:10 <SanMehat> grey-: this isn't any consumer OS
Dec 09 23:22:20 <SanMehat> trippss: werd
Dec 09 23:22:22 <grey-> you guys are arguing as fanboys.
Dec 09 23:22:28 <trippss> s/^i would/i wouldn't/
Dec 09 23:22:30 <grey-> it's OK to like android and still see it's problems.
Dec 09 23:22:35 <grey-> its even
Dec 09 23:22:57 <andyross1> Meh.  Pick 200 daily users of Windows or whatnot at random, and find me more than seven of them that know how to find and kill a spinning background process.
Dec 09 23:23:23 <grey-> andyross1: I've never met someone who used windows who didn't know how to use ctl-alt-delete to launch a taskmanager.
Dec 09 23:23:35 <unix_lappy> andyross1: of those 7 find me 2 that SHOULD be doing it in the first place.
Dec 09 23:23:43 <grey-> andyross1: but it's not like I've admined thousands of users or worked with them on a regular basis or anything.
Dec 09 23:24:02 <trippss> in any case, I bet money that we'll have a process control/kill capabilities within 6 months ;)
Dec 09 23:24:18 <andyross1> Can be done right now with a rooted phone.
Dec 09 23:24:26 <grey-> andyross1: and again, find me a system where processes don't need killing now and then, because believe me I've used pretty much everything.
Dec 09 23:24:41 <grey-> andyross1: ps/kill on rooted phone != available to normal consumers.
Dec 09 23:25:10 <grey-> andyross1: last I checked, ps on my rooted phone only shows me the linux processes, not the processes running within dalvik/android environment.
Dec 09 23:25:17 <andyross1> Straw man.  I didn't say that processes never need killing, just that the population of people able to *do* the killing is too small to worry about, and overlaps heavily with the population that has the capability already.
Dec 09 23:25:23 <trippss> andyross1, again - comparing people in this chat to windows users is totally irrelevant
Dec 09 23:25:33 <BlindOracle> browsing b.android.com is certainly eye opening and/or interesting
Dec 09 23:25:40 <grey-> andyross1: I fundamentally disagree with your opinion that average populace shouldn't be able to do that.
Dec 09 23:26:28 <grey-> I mean, it could be worse...
Dec 09 23:26:38 <ddock> the population who NEEDS killing is the population of developers.  why is google trying so hard to make devs unhappy?
Dec 09 23:26:40 <grey-> windows mobile doesn't explicitly kill processes on exit either.
Dec 09 23:26:49 <grey-> but also doesn't have decent gc and runs out of memory
Dec 09 23:26:57 <grey-> but they do add in the ability for users to kill the processes if needed.
Dec 09 23:27:09 <andyross1> To first approximation, developers all have rooted phones.
Dec 09 23:27:11 <grey-> ddock: well that too.
Dec 09 23:27:25 <fadden> ddock: ?
Dec 09 23:27:32 <grey-> andyross1: now who's pointing at straw men.
Dec 09 23:27:43 <grey-> andyross1: root phones provided by google?  c'mon.
Dec 09 23:28:00 <grey-> I don't see what's wrong with giving users the ability to kill a process.
Dec 09 23:28:20 <grey-> it's worked on most OS's for like I said, 50 years.
Dec 09 23:28:22 <grey-> and been just fine
Dec 09 23:28:25 <SanMehat> Fredbo: http://code.google.com/android/dev-devices.html
Dec 09 23:28:27 <SanMehat> er
Dec 09 23:28:29 <SanMehat> grey-: http://code.google.com/android/dev-devices.html
Dec 09 23:28:37 <grey-> SanMehat: do you have one?  I sure don't.
Dec 09 23:28:51 <SanMehat> grey-: yeah its spiffy
Dec 09 23:29:00 <grey-> SanMehat: oh you got one already?  Awesome!
Dec 09 23:29:00 * andyross1 suspects SanMehat probably has a developer device, yeah.
Dec 09 23:29:17 * grey- wants details.
Dec 09 23:29:20 <andyross1> grey-: check his IP
Dec 09 23:29:33 <grey-> blah, not fair. ;P
Dec 09 23:29:45 <grey-> like I said _normal_ people.
Dec 09 23:29:51 <dcordes> SanMehat, hi, yo know somebody to ask about msm_fb issues?
Dec 09 23:29:55 <fadden> Well, SanMehat is definitely not normal.
Dec 09 23:30:13 <SanMehat> most certainly not
Dec 09 23:30:20 <grey-> heheh
Dec 09 23:30:22 <SanMehat> dcordes: check the android-kernel google group
Dec 09 23:31:57 <dcordes> ok I will outline my problem there. hope I won't get a 'you can't do this on g1' reply
Dec 09 23:32:17 <SanMehat> dcordes: i dont know.. i didnt work on the framebuffer driver
Dec 09 23:32:45 <dennda> Heya. Is email / jabber possible with other providers than google mail / google talk?
Dec 09 23:32:45 <BlindOracle> ... -.. ...
Dec 09 23:33:17 <grey-> dennda: aye.
Dec 09 23:33:32 <grey-> dennda: errr jabber/xmpp or you mean with the gtalk client?
Dec 09 23:33:45 <BlindOracle> ... --- ...
Dec 09 23:33:53 <dcordes> SanMehat, the list does not look very active
Dec 09 23:33:57 <grey-> BlindOracle: using morse script?
Dec 09 23:34:03 <SanMehat> dcordes: people are listening :)
Dec 09 23:34:03 <dennda> grey-: I don't care much about the client. I just got another provider, that is, a JID other than mynick@gmail.com
Dec 09 23:34:27 <michaelnovakjr__> Dcordes you'll get a response
Dec 09 23:34:28 <BlindOracle> grey-: I noticed my irc client supports auto morse and demorse
Dec 09 23:34:30 <jbq> The Gtalk client in Android doesn't use Jabber.
Dec 09 23:34:31 <grey-> dennda: oh back & forth between different jabber services.
Dec 09 23:34:35 <grey-> BlindOracle: *nod* can be fun. ;)
Dec 09 23:34:36 <BlindOracle> grey-: was trying to play with it
Dec 09 23:34:47 <dennda> grey-: That is, when connecting to *my* jabber account on my desktop, there is no google server involved
Dec 09 23:34:51 <BlindOracle> grey-: good eye
Dec 09 23:34:57 <dennda> grey-: I wonder if that is possible with android / g1 too
Dec 09 23:35:02 <grey-> BlindOracle: I've used such irssi scripts in the past. ;)
Dec 09 23:35:12 <dennda> Or if it is restricted to google services such as google mail / google talk
Dec 09 23:35:17 <dcordes> SanMehat, michaelnovakjr ok I will gather all info and post tomorrow. thanks a lot
Dec 09 23:35:30 <grey-> dennda: hmmm, should be possible; maybe not with the built in gtalk app; I haven't tried.
Dec 09 23:35:32 <jbq> dennda: if you have an app with a jabber stack, it's possible. The built-in IM client doesn't.
Dec 09 23:35:40 <grey-> dennda: maybe with meebo or some other xmpp/jabber client.
Dec 09 23:35:59 <dennda> grey-: I'd much prefer a real client rather than a webapp one (don't punch me for that statement)
Dec 09 23:36:10 <BlindOracle> ..../---/.-- -./---/.-- -.../.-./---/.--/-. -.-./---/.--
Dec 09 23:36:11 <BlindOracle> lol
Dec 09 23:36:23 <dennda> jbq: Is there any other client available?
Dec 09 23:36:44 <dennda> (at present)
Dec 09 23:36:57 <grey-> dennda: no punching required, I also dislike meebo.
Dec 09 23:37:04 <jbq> dennda: I don't know. I don't have much visibility over development outside of the core android (which already keeps me very busy)
Dec 09 23:37:29 <dennda> jbq: Ah ok, then that at least was a qualified statement you gave above. Thanks :-)
Dec 09 23:37:33 <dcordes> bye
Dec 09 23:37:45 <BlindOracle> alright...I'm calling it a day. Cheers all. See ya tomorrow.
Dec 09 23:37:48 <grey-> dennda: mebbe: http://davanum.wordpress.com/2007/11/23/totally-unofficial-android-gtalk-client-sendreceive-xmpp-messages/ ?
Dec 09 23:38:59 <dennda> jbq: Maybe you can answer this question though: I read that google released a dev version of the G1 without netlock / simlock / etc. --- In order to write apps for the phone, do I need that dev version of the hardware?
Dec 09 23:39:22 <jbq> dennda: no, you can develop and debug apps on a regular G1.
Dec 09 23:39:38 <fadden> You can develop and debug apps without a phone at all, though that's not recommended.
Dec 09 23:39:44 <dennda> jbq: So the benefit of the dev version is limited to no contract, no simlock / netlock, bootloader?
Dec 09 23:39:51 <vol> root
Dec 09 23:39:55 <vol> on device debugging of native code
Dec 09 23:40:13 <dennda> I can't get root without hacks on a regular g1 from t-mobile?
Dec 09 23:40:15 <vol> the warm fuzzy feeling of having a special version
Dec 09 23:40:16 <ivantis> i am ordering my G1 from t-mobile online tomorrow
Dec 09 23:40:25 <vol> pretty much; rc30 removed all (known) avenues of getting root
Dec 09 23:40:25 <ivantis> *excited*
Dec 09 23:40:41 <dennda> hm
Dec 09 23:40:55 <jbq> dennda: yeah. The consequences of having an unlocked bootloader are interesting for app development, as it'll allow to test an app against multiple platform versions on the same device, without having to juggle around OTA updates.
Dec 09 23:41:01 <ivantis> no using root?
Dec 09 23:41:03 <ivantis> how stupid
Dec 09 23:41:25 <DJTachyon> get a Dev on then
Dec 09 23:41:29 <DJTachyon> one*
Dec 09 23:41:33 <dennda> jbq: Ok. I am just judging whether or not I need root privileges
Dec 09 23:41:37 <snadge> im hoping i can convert my tmobile g1 to run the dev software
Dec 09 23:41:40 <ivantis> maybe they just need a biig warning: do NOT do something stupid or use root like a regular user.
Dec 09 23:41:55 <ivantis> no su? no sudo?
Dec 09 23:42:07 * Decavolt wonders when the chan topic will finally just be changed to "omfg no root!? this is total b.s." 
Dec 09 23:42:11 <ivantis> is there even a CUI?
Dec 09 23:42:17 <ivantis> CLUI**
Dec 09 23:42:24 <andyross1> Not accessibel from the device.  There is a shell available via adb.
Dec 09 23:42:32 <dennda> andyross1: adb?
Dec 09 23:42:32 <ivantis> adb?
Dec 09 23:42:37 <snadge> theres a shell but you cant do anything with it.. unless you have a hacked rom or dev version
Dec 09 23:42:46 <dennda> Sheesh, a shell would be nice for ssh :/
Dec 09 23:42:57 <ivantis> there is an SSH client already i think
Dec 09 23:43:05 <snadge> connectbot, its totally sweet
Dec 09 23:43:05 <dennda> oh
Dec 09 23:43:11 <ivantis> i use ssh a lot, on my phone would be handy
Dec 09 23:43:15 <dennda> is there an ssh server running on the phone? ^^
Dec 09 23:43:23 <vol> there is a shell : \
Dec 09 23:43:25 <SanMehat> dennda: no
Dec 09 23:43:29 * rwhitby wonders why people buying a branded phone from a US carrier even consider the possibility that you might be able to get root on it out of the box ...
Dec 09 23:43:30 <vol> it's just of dubious use
Dec 09 23:43:36 <dennda> ok, that rather was a rhetorical question
Dec 09 23:43:38 <snadge> i've been able to get root via telnetd on my phone
Dec 09 23:43:48 <ivantis> is each phone on the network assigned its own IP or IPv6?
Dec 09 23:43:59 <vol> snadge: old version, not rc30
Dec 09 23:44:13 <dennda> snadge: is "connectbot" the name of the ssh client?
Dec 09 23:44:14 <ivantis> snadge: how did you telnet into it?
Dec 09 23:44:18 <vol> dennda: yes
Dec 09 23:44:27 <dennda> got a link?
Dec 09 23:44:33 <vol> dennda: google
Dec 09 23:44:37 <dennda> thanks
Dec 09 23:44:38 <snadge> ivantis: using telnet client, connect to localhost
Dec 09 23:44:39 <dennda> :-)
Dec 09 23:44:45 <vol> ivantis: old bug; keyboard sent all keystrokes to console as root user.
Dec 09 23:44:48 <michaelnovakjr__> It's in the market
Dec 09 23:44:52 <vol> to enable telnetd, you typed enter, telnetd, enter
Dec 09 23:44:58 <vol> yes, marketplace too
Dec 09 23:45:00 <snadge> dennda: yes.. google for it on your phone then just install the apk
Dec 09 23:45:16 <snadge> i dont have marketplace on my g1, because the email address is wrong and i dont want to reset it
Dec 09 23:45:22 <andyross1> Dennda: http://letmegooglethatforyou.com/?q=connectbot
Dec 09 23:45:24 <dennda> snadge: Is it available through android market? (I don't have a phone yet. German unfortunately..)
Dec 09 23:45:30 <ivantis> is there a perl port for android yet?
Dec 09 23:45:34 <bgupta> My thoughts on root for G1 is this. In the US, carriers exchange cell phone subsidies and relatively inexpensive warranty programs for a virtual lock on what you device can do, and what you can do with the device.
Dec 09 23:45:42 <dennda> andyross1: thanks for that link! :-)
Dec 09 23:46:03 <andyross1> Uh ... you're welcome?
Dec 09 23:46:17 <ivantis> bgupta: good thinking. maybe it should have possible root, but once used it violates your warranty
Dec 09 23:46:30 <rwhitby> ivantis: that's what dev phones are for
Dec 09 23:46:31 <RyeBrye> they'd have no way to tel
Dec 09 23:46:31 <dennda> Are there any experiences with connectbot already? Especially running irssi over it
Dec 09 23:46:52 <Lieu10ant> umm
Dec 09 23:46:53 * danfuzz runs irssi in a screen session using connectbot, on a fairly regular basis
Dec 09 23:47:05 <Lieu10ant> i'm really not too good at decorating....but here are my christmas lights: http://i36.tinypic.com/4gkr2p.jpg
Dec 09 23:47:06 <snadge> if i had've known about the dev version of the phone, i would've purchased it.. im just hoping that i'll be able to flash it with the dev software soon, and theres easy to follow instructions to do it
Dec 09 23:47:23 <andyross1> bgupta: But they also want to sell extensible devices because users want them.  There's a tension there, and the fact that there are SDKs for these platforms is clear evidence that the carriers *will* move on the issue.  Don't assume that the current state of affairs is equilibrium, and keep pushing
Dec 09 23:47:26 <snadge> im still on rc28, so there should be hope
Dec 09 23:47:27 * rwhitby wonders whether the dev phones were always planned by google (and if so, why not release them first) or whether it was a response to the root exploit on the G1.
Dec 09 23:47:46 <RyeBrye> snadge: yeah, if you are still on rc28 and you stay on rc28 you will be able to easily get root
Dec 09 23:47:48 <dennda> nevermind, the page has screenshots I overlooked
Dec 09 23:47:50 <SanMehat> rwhitby: they were always planned
Dec 09 23:47:56 <dennda> http://code.google.com/p/connectbot/ <-- Looks nice
Dec 09 23:48:05 <andyross1> And note that the hardware itself already firewalls the "root" user off from the cell network as a whole, even putting it on its own CPU.  Why can't that be the standard security metaphor?
Dec 09 23:48:06 <dennda> I want that.
Dec 09 23:48:12 <rwhitby> SanMehat: what was the rationaly for locked G1 release before dev phone release then?
Dec 09 23:48:19 <ivantis> it looks like it might have an SSHD: http://www.coderetard.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/07/toggle_ssh.jpg
Dec 09 23:48:21 <snadge> so when will people have the dev bootloader and image released? :P
Dec 09 23:48:24 <rwhitby> s/rationaly/rationale/
Dec 09 23:48:24 <ivantis> found that on google search
Dec 09 23:48:31 <SanMehat> rwhitby: yeah.. they're subsidized by the carrier.. carrier requirement.
Dec 09 23:48:49 <SanMehat> The Android Dev One is not sold through a carrier.
Dec 09 23:48:58 <ivantis> wait im retarded, thats an iphone
Dec 09 23:49:08 <SanMehat> ivantis: hahaha
Dec 09 23:49:16 <rwhitby> SanMehat: ah, so condition of manufacture of G1 and availability of that hardware for dev phones was that carrier phone was released first?
Dec 09 23:49:25 <andyross1> I can't let you guys off the hook that easily.  Yes, T-Mobile chose to disallow root access.  But they didn't write the security model, you did.  They made a choice from a list of options you presented.
Dec 09 23:50:12 <SanMehat> so?
Dec 09 23:50:15 <ivantis> who is you?
Dec 09 23:50:17 <SanMehat> what was the alternative?
Dec 09 23:50:51 <ivantis> and maybe they should have an option for people who know how to use root, and those who would do something retarded with it
Dec 09 23:50:56 <rwhitby> SanMehat: the alternative was that you guys had a poorer security model and virus got into the wild in the first few weeks ;-)
Dec 09 23:51:03 <SanMehat> rwhitby: ahhh gotcha
Dec 09 23:51:10 * SanMehat goes back to work
Dec 09 23:51:28 <eldenz> how do i leave the SPL? ;)
Dec 09 23:51:40 <fadden> You're a Senior Patrol Leader?
Dec 09 23:51:44 <bgupta> andyross1: Keep in mind the carriers and device manufacturors are Googles first tier clients.
Dec 09 23:52:10 <grey-> snadge: engineering booloader is presumably pretty close to the dev bootloader.  We'll have to wait and see though until non-SanMeHat googlers actually have devices.;)
Dec 09 23:52:30 <SanMehat> grey-: the engineering bootloader is the dev bootloader
Dec 09 23:52:38 <grey-> SanMehat: w3wtz
Dec 09 23:52:39 <unix_lappy> did we ever find a hack for a pdf / doc reader?
Dec 09 23:52:51 <grey-> unix_lappy: hehehe
Dec 09 23:52:54 <snadge> why does the website i was looking at say it has nothing to do with the dev bootloader
Dec 09 23:53:06 <andyross1> And keep in mind that Google is selling something they want, at a very reasonable price.  I've been in that world, I know how it works (not that it works all that strangely, even).  Compromise *is* available, and a reasonable interface for user customizability isn't something carriers like, but it's not something they're insane about either.
Dec 09 23:53:09 <grey-> unix_lappy: adobe seems to be prioritizing flash on android; but I'm sure we'll see some pdf readers soon.
Dec 09 23:53:13 <ivantis> but how does internet work on the G1s with T-Mobile service?
Dec 09 23:53:19 <eldenz> no seriously, i booted with cam+poweron.. so i'm in bootloader mode i guess. now how do i get out of it? lol..
Dec 09 23:53:22 <ivantis> does each phone get its own host?
Dec 09 23:53:30 <andyross1> Note that if T-Mobile was really concerned about this stuff, they wouldn't let the dev boxes on the network in the first place.
Dec 09 23:53:33 <unix_lappy> grey-: i'd rather someone just got some libraries working.
Dec 09 23:53:49 <RyeBrye> eldenz: pull the battery
Dec 09 23:53:52 <geist> ivantis: might be a 10.x host, behind a NAT
Dec 09 23:53:56 <grey-> ivantis: if you check your gmail account; you'll see some RFC1918 IP's for connecting to gmail.
Dec 09 23:53:57 <RyeBrye> eldenz: or light the phone on fire
Dec 09 23:54:07 <grey-> unix_lappy: yeah would be nice.
Dec 09 23:54:10 <RyeBrye> eldenz:  both approaches will get you out of the SPL, but only one might have results you like
Dec 09 23:54:13 <ivantis> english?
Dec 09 23:54:16 <grey-> unix_lappy: I'm sure we'll see something soonish.
Dec 09 23:54:28 <eldenz> RyeBrye, thx ;) i don't know where the bat is so i'll pick the fire
Dec 09 23:54:30 <ivantis> whats RFC1918?
Dec 09 23:54:38 <grey-> ivantis: it looks like they get IP's from a pool of non-routable IP addresses within google.
Dec 09 23:54:44 <grey-> ivantis: e.g. 10.x.x.x
Dec 09 23:54:47 <bgupta> snadge: Because it wasn't gotten off a dev device. We currently don't have any dev devices, so until the dev devices are released we can't compare them..
Dec 09 23:54:50 <grey-> ivantis: but that's just within google.
Dec 09 23:55:00 <ivantis> maybe they should just give all of them IPv6s
Dec 09 23:55:00 <grey-> ivantis: for other stuff you can check whatismyip.com in your browser
Dec 09 23:55:07 <grey-> ivantis: and see what you are getting on the internet
Dec 09 23:55:14 <ivantis> i got like 80 with my DSL account
Dec 09 23:55:27 <ivantis> grey-: i would, but i dont have my G1 yet
Dec 09 23:55:27 <RyeBrye> snadge: that one had a signing check going on that we had to disable - presumably there is no signature checking in the actual dev bootloader
Dec 09 23:55:33 <grey-> ivantis: AHhhhh
Dec 09 23:57:23 <bgupta> snadge: the engineering bootloader was gotten of a T-mobile G1 replacement unit.. somehow it left the factory with the wrong bootloader.
Dec 09 23:57:31 <vol> whoops
Dec 09 23:57:37 <vol> http://code.google.com/android/reference/android/os/PowerManager.WakeLock.html#setReferenceCounted(boolean)
Dec 09 23:57:37 <grey-> aww shucks.
Dec 09 23:57:41 <vol> Can someone tell me what this is used for?
Dec 09 23:57:46 <snadge> somehow? lol.. nice ;)
Dec 09 23:57:52 <vol> Lets say I have an app I expect to mysteriously explode; should I set this true?
Dec 09 23:58:11 <ivantis> does anyone know if ipv6 works on android?
Dec 09 23:58:24 <snadge> just like when i was in california.. i somehow ended up with a bag of weed
Dec 09 23:58:43 <snadge> miracles do happen ;)
Dec 09 23:58:58 <vol> miraculous weed aka dispensory
Dec 09 23:59:09 <RyeBrye> This really was a miracle... there was no drug dealer involved
Dec 09 23:59:41 <RyeBrye> It's pretty easy to prove - because if we had gotten it from a source inside of Googole, I'm almost positive that we wouldn't have had to hack it to disable signature checking - since the dev ones don't have it in place in the first place
Dec 10 00:00:08 <VJTachyon> lalala
Dec 10 00:00:27 <VJTachyon> glad i can get on here from the phone again
Dec 10 00:01:15 <snadge> but why put that bootloader onto a warranty repair phone.. fortunate coincidence, or deliberate mistake?
Dec 10 00:01:38 <RyeBrye> dunno
Dec 10 00:02:08 <andyross1> Dumb luck.  No doubt early batches of G1's went to Google, HTC and partners with the development bootloader.  Later production shifted to the final software.  Someone mislabeled a box.
Dec 10 00:02:20 <SanMehat> snadge: I probably put the wrong phone in your box - I'm in charge of boxing G1s
Dec 10 00:02:24 <SanMehat> :)
Dec 10 00:02:35 <RyeBrye> I have a few ideas. One of them being that the bootloader is version 0.95.300 and the bootloader doesn't flash downgrades - and the one that they normally ship is 0.95.00 - so if they had it flashed on there for testing in the factory and then they were doing QA and did the steps to reflash the neutered bootloader - it would not reflash it and leave the functional one on there
Dec 10 00:02:46 <ivantis> root access?: http://www.talkandroid.com/364-g1-root-access-pterminal/
Dec 10 00:03:20 <RyeBrye> I could see them accidently doing this for a little while before realizng "Woops. We should not be using 0.95.300 - use 0.95.00 for testing" and then "What about the 300 we already did, boss? what about those?" and them saying "Send them out. Nobody cares about the bootloader anyway"
Dec 10 00:05:13 <VJTachyon> like  "nobody even knows what a rootkit is, so why would they care?"
Dec 10 00:05:53 <VJTachyon> oh sony .. i will never forgive you
Dec 10 00:09:57 <bparker06> is there a development channel?
Dec 10 00:10:10 <vol> #android-dev, or here
Dec 10 00:10:25 <bparker06> I've tried here many times... hehe
Dec 10 00:10:32 <bparker06> no responses at all
Dec 10 00:11:04 <jsharkey> hmkay so im having some selection issues
Dec 10 00:11:06 <grey-> VJTachyon: lulz
Dec 10 00:11:31 <jsharkey> putting a GridView as a child view in a ExpandableListView
Dec 10 00:12:58 <dennda> Is there a pdf reader installed / available?
Dec 10 00:14:42 <erus`> http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=4pXfHLUlZf4 HAAAAAAAAA
Dec 10 00:16:12 <ddock> jetcet pdf seems to work.  i havent used it much yet, and it is not perfect
Dec 10 00:16:33 <bgupta> Anyone want to help work on the Android FAQ? http://android-dls.com/wiki/index.php?title=Android_FAQ (Feel free to register and edit..)
Dec 10 00:21:03 <dennda> mikey|: Are you just connecting from an android powered phone?
Dec 10 00:21:18 <mikey|> yeah
Dec 10 00:21:25 <dennda> mikey|: What phone / client?
Dec 10 00:21:43 <mikey|> my own client, g1
Dec 10 00:21:58 <dennda> you wrote your own irc client?
Dec 10 00:22:10 <mikey|> yeah, uni project
Dec 10 00:22:30 <mikey|> http://androidirc.net
Dec 10 00:22:36 <dennda> ah ok, thanks
Dec 10 00:23:04 <mikey|> watching heroes, its a lame show now
Dec 10 00:24:06 <grey-> mikey|: ssl support would be very useful. ;)
Dec 10 00:24:25 <mikey|> aye, planned feature
Dec 10 00:24:36 <mikey|> use it alot myself
Dec 10 00:24:56 <grey-> mikey|: *nod* I see it planned. (:
Dec 10 00:26:20 <meyou> mikey|: make color codes work!
Dec 10 00:26:38 <meyou> i bet this looks super ugly
Dec 10 00:26:47 <mikey|> naa, thats for stuff like join/part etc
Dec 10 00:27:22 <meyou> then your client sucks, good day
Dec 10 00:27:22 <mikey|> o wait, misread you
Dec 10 00:27:24 <meyou> :p
Dec 10 00:27:27 <mikey|> lol
Dec 10 00:27:42 <meyou> i want to be able to play #trivia on efnet
Dec 10 00:27:44 <meyou> from my phone
Dec 10 00:27:53 <meyou> but they use color codes to prevent easy copy/pasting of questions
Dec 10 00:27:59 <meyou> for googlers
Dec 10 00:28:06 <meyou> and it's just a wall of crazy chars
Dec 10 00:28:53 <eldenz> how long does it approximately take to compile android?
Dec 10 00:29:22 <mikey|> disable copying of colour codes then meyou
Dec 10 00:29:30 <fadden> eldenz: depends on how many CPUs you have and how fast they are
Dec 10 00:29:34 <jbq> eldenz: about 24 minutes on my machine. People with better hardware or faster OSes have much shorter times.
Dec 10 00:29:45 <eldenz> jbq, ah cool, what cpu do you have?
Dec 10 00:29:48 <mikey|> time for prison break
Dec 10 00:29:54 <meyou> mikey|: no i mean, in the g1 irc client, color codes aren't parsed
Dec 10 00:30:05 <meyou> so the messages from the trivia bot just look like a wall of codes
Dec 10 00:30:17 <mikey|> oic
Dec 10 00:30:19 <eldenz> g1 irc client? where? Oo
Dec 10 00:30:20 <jbq> eldenz: 2x core2duo 2.4GHz.
Dec 10 00:30:27 <meyou> they do things like replace all spaces with random letters, only colored to match the background
Dec 10 00:30:36 <jbq> uh, 2.66GHz, actually.
Dec 10 00:30:40 <eldenz> aw okay ;) i got a amd 3700+ :|
Dec 10 00:30:42 <meyou> eldenz: http://androidirc.net
Dec 10 00:30:57 <mikey|> still cant solve this scroll issue :(
Dec 10 00:30:59 <meyou> oh wait
Dec 10 00:31:04 <meyou> i'm using a diff client
Dec 10 00:31:09 <mikey|> doesnt go all the way
Dec 10 00:31:19 <meyou> mikey|: does yours already parse color codes?
Dec 10 00:31:27 <mikey|> nope
Dec 10 00:31:30 <eldenz> mikey|, gimme! :f
Dec 10 00:31:48 <mikey|> soon, soon
Dec 10 00:32:01 <mikey|> found loads of new bugs
Dec 10 00:32:08 <eldenz> although the maybe @ opensource bothers me^^
Dec 10 00:32:09 <jbq> I build under MacOS, though. I think that it builds much faster under linux.
Dec 10 00:32:21 <eldenz> better than a, no, though
Dec 10 00:32:25 <unix_lappy> hmm, cool it looks like that screen protector film is sold by 3M in bulk and is of the same material.
Dec 10 00:32:26 <mikey|> why eldenz?
Dec 10 00:32:54 <eldenz> mikey|, because i like to add features, i'm missing, myself ;)
Dec 10 00:33:31 <mikey|> ah
Dec 10 00:33:46 <eldenz> (and the dev doesn't want to spend time on it etc)
Dec 10 00:34:28 <mikey|> yeah, if i cba to add stuff, then i'll open source it
Dec 10 00:35:02 <mikey|> like i did with my diggmobile script
Dec 10 00:35:32 <mikey|> although, thats minor compared to this
Dec 10 00:35:32 <eldenz> cool, yeah i just saw.. for a student project i understand, i guess
Dec 10 00:36:18 <mikey|> ah, im not sure if a shade of red for quit msg was a good idea :|
Dec 10 00:36:36 <mikey|> the text seems to come off the screen
Dec 10 00:37:39 <eldenz> first repo sync takes years :f
Dec 10 00:38:26 <mikey|> is the anyway to intercept a trackerball movement?
Dec 10 00:38:44 <mikey|> wanna implement scrollback
Dec 10 00:41:26 <jbq> mikey|: yes, it's possible (I don't know how).
Dec 10 00:41:46 <mikey|> ok, thanks
Dec 10 00:42:07 <jsharkey> mikey|: prolly looking for GestureDetector
Dec 10 00:42:30 <jsharkey> implement SimpleOnGestureListener.onScroll()
Dec 10 00:43:07 <jsharkey> thats for touch events though, prolly want onKey() for catching teh trackball
Dec 10 00:43:13 <mikey|> *googles*
Dec 10 00:43:32 <sparkle> unix_lappy: i'm actually looking for a screen cover in dark red - or trying to make one
Dec 10 00:43:46 <sparkle> it would make the g1 pretty useful at night
Dec 10 00:47:15 <Damm> man, what's with gmail today.
Dec 10 00:47:18 <Damm> beyond slow
Dec 10 00:47:39 <grey-> ?
Dec 10 00:51:27 <mikey|> night
Dec 10 00:51:52 <eldenz> anybody knows where the wallpaper is saved?
Dec 10 00:59:41 <snadge> is it normal for compass mode to not work properly with street view? i think my phone might be broke
Dec 10 01:00:17 <snadge> the up down doesnt appear to be working.. its either all the way down, or all the way up.. and if you try to hold it in between, it is very erratic
Dec 10 01:01:17 <KNY> snadge, I've seen someone else say something about having that problem
Dec 10 01:01:31 <KNY> I believe it was on the android-beginners mailing list and they had to return it
Dec 10 01:02:58 <snadge> thats kinda annoying.. im in australia and bought it from a place in manhattan, that wasnt a t-mobile store :P
Dec 10 01:03:22 <pfft> solca: are you there?
Dec 10 01:06:52 <jsharkey> hmm is muthu around?
Dec 10 01:08:49 <jsharkey> oh romainguy where art thou  :/  trying to put a AbsListView inside another AbsListView, but focusing is only happening at the parent level
Dec 10 01:09:28 <fadden> The romainguy is OUT.
Dec 10 01:09:33 <ttuttle> :(
Dec 10 01:09:38 <ttuttle> we need a sign on the channel door
Dec 10 01:09:57 <snadge> i worked it out.. the compass doesnt like my belt clip, because its magnetized
Dec 10 01:10:05 <snadge> take that off, it works like a charm
Dec 10 01:10:26 <snadge> now i just have to figure out how to remove this damned aftermarket plastic shell
Dec 10 01:37:19 <hevermind> wow. i successfully logged onto irc via g1
Dec 10 01:38:23 <snadge> anyone know of the aftermarket clear cases that have a belt clip on the back, which the clip can rotate into like 8 different positions?
Dec 10 01:38:52 <snadge> i can get the bit that clips over the screen off no problem.. but the part that goes around the rest of the unit, is a real pita to remove.. i cant seem to figure out the trick
Dec 10 01:39:02 <hevermind> is any1 else here on their goog phone right now?
Dec 10 01:39:27 <snadge> not right now, but i could be.. if i was so masochistically inclined
Dec 10 01:40:53 <hevermind> lol. rock. i got connectbot and became nostalgic. i paid 4$ for a shell account and now im here.
Dec 10 01:41:43 <hevermind> yay those t mobile bitches aint charging ME for chat!
Dec 10 01:41:59 <bparker06> anyone good with XmlPullParser ?
Dec 10 01:42:22 <ivantis> what is the best deal for the G1 from t-mobile?
Dec 10 01:42:38 <snadge> nobody knows about the clear cases? :(
Dec 10 01:44:12 <hevermind> ivantis - a new contract?
Dec 10 01:44:20 <ivantis> yeah new
Dec 10 01:44:21 <Versed> I hear walmart is $149
Dec 10 01:44:27 <hevermind> otherwise youll pay 400 for it
Dec 10 01:44:35 <hevermind> i paid 150
Dec 10 01:44:45 <JesusFreke> and if you have to pay 400.. might as well get a google developer phone instead :D
Dec 10 01:45:01 <Versed> costco is $179 but, no activation fee, a free case, free car charger and free bt ear dongle.
Dec 10 01:45:20 * bparker06 got the dev phone
Dec 10 01:45:21 <mogui_> i'd rather get the dev phone than pay for such a nice phone that's all locked up
Dec 10 01:45:22 <ivantis> i see $179 on the t-mobile site
Dec 10 01:45:25 <hevermind> i didnt know those existed... developer phones?
Dec 10 01:45:25 <Versed> Jesus, I agree and I paid the $400.00
Dec 10 01:45:32 <JesusFreke> bparker, you actually have one? in hand?
Dec 10 01:45:33 <Versed> and got it at tmo
Dec 10 01:45:42 <bparker06> JesusFreke: it's ordered
Dec 10 01:45:46 <JesusFreke> ah. k
Dec 10 01:45:47 <JesusFreke> same here
Dec 10 01:45:48 <ivantis> i will not shop at walmart, and there isnt a costco here
Dec 10 01:45:59 <bparker06> don't go to costco either
Dec 10 01:46:00 <hevermind> whats the hardware?
Dec 10 01:46:04 <bparker06> they don't accept credit cards
Dec 10 01:46:07 <bparker06> except amex
Dec 10 01:46:08 <bparker06> (no joke)
Dec 10 01:46:10 <Versed> right
Dec 10 01:46:13 <bparker06> only debit and amex
Dec 10 01:46:18 <JesusFreke> hever, google for google developer phone
Dec 10 01:46:27 <Dougie187> sams club only takes discover, mastercard and debit
Dec 10 01:46:28 <Versed> but with walmart, you walk in, get it and walk out.
Dec 10 01:46:30 <hevermind> okay. b back
Dec 10 01:46:31 <JesusFreke> you'll find it. it's the samething as a G1, but with an unlocked bootloader and no sim lock
Dec 10 01:46:48 * mogui_ is jealous of bparker06
Dec 10 01:46:54 <Versed> I agree, I hate the place too, but I won't cut off my nose to spite my face.
Dec 10 01:46:57 <hevermind> im googling. what good s
Dec 10 01:47:04 <hevermind> does unlocked bootloader do
Dec 10 01:47:24 <JesusFreke> lets you use the fastboot protocol/program to flash the phone
Dec 10 01:47:26 <Versed> with the dev phone, do you still get ota updates?
Dec 10 01:47:32 <JesusFreke> also lets you flash unsigned nbhs
Dec 10 01:47:39 <unix_infidel> Versed: probably not.
Dec 10 01:47:43 <JesusFreke> versed.. we'll have to wait and see
Dec 10 01:47:51 <bparker06> the dev phone also looks much cooler
Dec 10 01:47:55 <Versed> it does.
Dec 10 01:48:15 <bparker06> http://www.trustedreviews.com/mobile-devices/news/2008/12/08/Custom-Unlocked-G1-Goes-On-Sale-To-Developers/p1
Dec 10 01:48:16 <eldenz> not really :p
Dec 10 01:48:33 <eldenz> that's just the i'm special effect
Dec 10 01:48:40 <JesusFreke> yes, it totally is
Dec 10 01:48:52 <Versed> but, such is life, I have what I have.  and I'm sure the chefs at xda-dev will solve the locked bootloader issue.
Dec 10 01:48:53 <JesusFreke> but that doesn't mean I don't like it any less :D
Dec 10 01:49:23 <mogui_> my one big thing against all the new phones today is that none of them have decent vibrate modes, they all suck horribly
Dec 10 01:49:24 <JesusFreke> versed, you on official RC30?
Dec 10 01:49:42 * JesusFreke doesn't particularly care about vibrate
Dec 10 01:49:45 <mogui_> i keep my phone on vibrate all the time, ringers annoy me
Dec 10 01:50:09 <Versed> yes
Dec 10 01:50:48 <JesusFreke> ah, *nod*
Dec 10 01:50:55 <Disconnect> mogui_: get an e90.
Dec 10 01:50:57 <JesusFreke> hopefully someone will find an exploit eventually
Dec 10 01:50:59 <Disconnect> it'll knock pictures off the wall.
Dec 10 01:51:12 <Versed> I have an e71 too, I like it.
Dec 10 01:52:12 <Versed> e90's are expensive, I'd wait for the N97, gonna be less, and it will have NAM hsdpa.
Dec 10 01:53:01 <JesusFreke> "and it will have NAM hsdpa". wow, was that a sneeze there at the end? :D
Dec 10 01:53:45 <Versed> yes
Dec 10 02:09:46 <mogui_> Disconnect: is its vibration decently strong? besides buying an android dev phone, the only way i'm spending any decent amount of money on a phone is if its vibration setting is fairly strong
Dec 10 02:11:04 <Disconnect> its insanely high. part of why i'm so unhappy about the g1 beign so low :(
Dec 10 02:13:09 <mogui_> that's good, maybe i'll look into that phone and hold out for the g2 or something (maybe enough messages to the google blog or something would get their attention to up the vibrate or something)
Dec 10 02:14:07 <bparker06> mogui_: I don't have t-mobile (only at&t), so I doubt my dev phone will even work on 3g
Dec 10 02:14:11 <mogui_> is there a low physical limit to the vibrators or is that a software setting that determines a safe upper limit to extend its longevity for a good while? i'm not sure how those exactly work
Dec 10 02:14:49 <Disconnect> probably its voltage related, which may or may not be sw controllable
Dec 10 02:14:54 <Disconnect> vague enough? :)
Dec 10 02:15:10 <mogui_> lol
Dec 10 02:15:23 <mogui_> i never could get amps, voltage, wattage, and power straight
Dec 10 02:15:40 <mogui_> probably not the best thing considering i'm an engineering student
Dec 10 02:16:32 <mogui_> i do know, however, that you can use a voltage step-up thingy to increase voltage (and i know how to make one too, lol)
Dec 10 02:16:50 <mogui_> which is again odd considering i can't get that electronic terminology straight
Dec 10 02:17:31 <mogui_> if it has to do with voltage, maybe stick one of those in between the circuit board and the motor (there is actually two in the g1 from what i read on a blog that stripped one down)
Dec 10 02:29:50 <brocktice> mogui_, that'd be a transformer
Dec 10 02:31:18 <Disconnect> lol
Dec 10 02:34:15 <snadge> ok.. so i've put pterminal, telnet onto my rc28 phone.. and i copied a binary called su, off a forum.. into my /system/bin, and called it su2 (just for the hell of it).. and when i run su2 from an adb shell.. i get root
Dec 10 02:34:20 <snadge> this is good right? :P
Dec 10 02:40:33 <eldenz> does this mean plug in usb connector? 11. After SPL shows, plug in USB card and push trackball or hit home. SPL restarts and now shows FASTBOOT.
Dec 10 02:40:57 <eldenz> somehow nothing happens if i press trackball/home
Dec 10 02:41:24 <Disconnect> eldenz: www.gotontheinter.net/bootloader is the original source, has directions in english. ('usb card'?) and correct ('home'?)
Dec 10 02:41:54 <eldenz> Disconnect, i'm trying to change the splash image
Dec 10 02:42:03 <eldenz> according to http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=3011444&postcount=10
Dec 10 02:42:08 <Disconnect> www.gotontheinter.net/logo.rle will also be helpful
Dec 10 02:42:31 <Disconnect> yah that came from my page too it looks like.
Dec 10 02:42:49 <eldenz> Finally, you use fastboot to flash the splash image and reboot. <-- doesn't tell me anything :(
Dec 10 02:42:56 <Disconnect> infernix: ..way to credit the source there buddy.
Dec 10 02:43:24 <Disconnect> look above that.
Dec 10 02:43:33 <Disconnect> its got a whole block of commands to run. those are important.
Dec 10 02:44:18 <eldenz> i have the correct image but...
Dec 10 02:44:47 <grey-> what key combo boots me in recovery mode again?
Dec 10 02:44:49 <grey-> home + back?
Dec 10 02:44:52 <Disconnect> ah. looks like the OP did. so ok.
Dec 10 02:44:53 <grey-> google is teh fail
Dec 10 02:45:02 <grey-> and everyone says "boot recovery mode" but fails to say what keys.
Dec 10 02:45:04 <grey-> lamez.
Dec 10 02:45:06 <Disconnect> hold down camera - its on the www.gotontheinter.net/fastboot page :)
Dec 10 02:45:14 <grey-> that's SPL.
Dec 10 02:45:17 <grey-> same?
Dec 10 02:45:30 <eldenz> Disconnect, so i can do the fastboot commands while android is running?
Dec 10 02:45:40 <Disconnect> wtf? no.
Dec 10 02:45:55 <Disconnect> go read the very first part of that page.
Dec 10 02:46:37 <eldenz> ah okay
Dec 10 02:47:09 <infernix> Disconnect: what?
Dec 10 02:47:14 <eldenz> maybe you should add a link to www.gotontheinter.net/fastboot in the splash image article
Dec 10 02:47:21 <Disconnect> infernix: nevermind. saw your comment out of context :)
Dec 10 02:47:25 <eldenz> it doesn't say otherwise there ;)
Dec 10 02:47:29 <infernix> Disconnect: you bet
Dec 10 02:48:13 <infernix> my list isnt complete without the text thats in post 1
Dec 10 02:48:29 <Disconnect> heh :)
Dec 10 02:48:39 <eldenz> infernix, you have two errors though :) Home -> Back, USB card -> USB connector/cord/whateva ;)
Dec 10 02:48:42 <Disconnect> yah no worries. sorry i doubted you :)
Dec 10 02:49:36 <grey-> ah, home + power, hold home.
Dec 10 02:50:16 <JesusFreke> btw, you only have to hold home until it vibrates
Dec 10 02:50:19 <JesusFreke> then you can let go
Dec 10 02:51:00 <grey-> kewl
Dec 10 02:51:24 <infernix> there, edited
Dec 10 02:51:27 * eldenz triplechecks the size before flashing
Dec 10 02:51:48 <eldenz> 307202 goood
Dec 10 02:51:51 <eldenz> just kidding
Dec 10 02:51:56 <Disconnect> i have heard that it checks size (and it looks like it'll be ok) but still seems unnecessarily risky
Dec 10 02:52:11 <Disconnect> and if its not that size, there is something wrong anyway
Dec 10 02:52:26 <grey-> weird, I swear I found some other boot screen by mistake just now, but can't seem to recreate; ah well will poke around.
Dec 10 02:52:43 <eldenz> weeeeh
Dec 10 02:52:44 <JesusFreke> grey, home + back + power maybe?
Dec 10 02:52:49 <grey-> JesusFreke: that sounds right.
Dec 10 02:53:02 <JesusFreke> yeah, that does the same thing as alt+w in recovery mode
Dec 10 02:53:06 <grey-> ahh, kk.
Dec 10 02:53:07 <eldenz> my splashscreen :) http://plrf.org/pub/why_so_alone.png
Dec 10 02:53:09 <grey-> shortcut; fun.
Dec 10 02:53:21 <JesusFreke> heh. cool eldenz. I like it
Dec 10 02:53:28 <JesusFreke> where's the pic from?
Dec 10 02:53:38 <Disconnect> ok thats creepy
Dec 10 02:53:38 <eldenz> found it on deviantart ages ago
Dec 10 02:53:41 <JesusFreke> ah
Dec 10 02:53:58 <JesusFreke> I need to get my cousin to make me one
Dec 10 02:54:15 <eldenz> original http://l3dav1nc1.deviantart.com/art/why-so-alone-9070520
Dec 10 02:56:25 * grey- continues the process of reflashing his daughter's g1.
Dec 10 02:56:37 <Disconnect> grey-: use that image
Dec 10 02:56:43 <grey-> hahah
Dec 10 02:57:03 <grey-> teenage daughter's don't need more incentive to be depressed. ;)
Dec 10 02:57:14 <grey-> though thankfully mine is generally pretty happy.
Dec 10 02:57:15 <Disconnect> she'd probably love it actually
Dec 10 02:57:20 <eldenz> heh
Dec 10 02:57:22 <grey-> quite possibly.
Dec 10 02:57:42 <grey-> when she gets the phone we'll get into the imagemagick stuff and see what she wants as a boot gfc.
Dec 10 02:58:05 <grey-> she needs to get to the dmv and get her learner's permit before the 'reward' of a cell phone.
Dec 10 02:58:24 <Disconnect> cuz thats what a new driver needs. a cellphone.
Dec 10 02:58:29 <grey-> haha
Dec 10 02:58:36 <grey-> well she won't be getting her license for a while.
Dec 10 02:58:44 <Versed> nothing like texting and driving down the street at 65mph
Dec 10 02:58:46 <grey-> but yeah, if she's going to be off driving around, I want her to be reachable.
Dec 10 02:58:54 <grey-> haha.
Dec 10 02:58:54 <Disconnect> Versed++
Dec 10 02:59:15 <grey-> http://articles.latimes.com/2008/sep/25/local/me-arnold25
Dec 10 02:59:26 <Versed> I have my 16 y/o my 2g iphone, I can't even recognize it.
Dec 10 02:59:35 <Disconnect> ..speeding is illegal too. so?
Dec 10 02:59:40 <grey-> Versed: ?
Dec 10 02:59:43 <grey-> Disconnect: true...
Dec 10 02:59:51 <grey-> Versed: can't recognize it how?
Dec 10 02:59:52 <ivantis> my G1 has just been ordered
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Wed Dec 10 02:59:57 2008