**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat Apr 28 02:59:56 2007 Apr 28 07:08:55 rwhitby: both options sound good Apr 28 10:47:08 koen|away: thx - will work on a patch this week. Apr 28 11:12:27 finally cleaned up some space to build to find out that OZ is not in .dev anymore (so it's more like _is_ phased out, rather than "being")). Anyway, tried to build angstrom and it complains about bad RPATH in libstc++... Apr 28 11:22:37 polyonymous: Are you using the most recent .dev tree? Apr 28 11:23:18 Laibsch, pulled yesterday. Apr 28 11:23:19 polyonymous: Please do not expect anything completely polished (yet). It seems like you have this expectation from the tone of your comment. But I might be misinterpreting. Apr 28 11:23:26 polyonymous: pull again Apr 28 11:23:31 No, no, I do not. Apr 28 11:23:51 all the better Apr 28 11:24:12 I'm well prepared for everything, I'll get back to it in a few minutes, gotta go meet my wife now. But no worries, I'm not average "complaining user" :) Apr 28 11:26:41 we don't get too many of those Apr 28 12:01:06 Laibsch: Hi! Can you enlight me on collie screen rotation/callibration issues? Apr 28 12:02:00 sure Apr 28 12:02:13 What do you want to know? Apr 28 12:02:25 Laibsch: so, collie is portrait device, right? Apr 28 12:03:40 yes Apr 28 12:04:30 Laibsch: is it the case that its screen's native orientation is landscape still? Apr 28 12:05:30 http://wiki.openzaurus.org/Collie Apr 28 12:05:45 what is the native orientation? Apr 28 12:07:40 Laibsch: one which hw has. for example, few ipaqs have exactly that case - they are normally portrait devices, my LCD matrices are landscape, so rotated actually Apr 28 12:11:54 Laibsch: so, does the same apply to collie? Apr 28 12:14:54 You'd have to ask Sharp ;-) Apr 28 12:15:04 Or somebody else Apr 28 12:15:08 I don't know Apr 28 12:15:48 Laibsch: ok, when you boot kernel, boot messages run normally, or rotated? ;-) Apr 28 12:16:36 they scroll by very fast. I think they are normal. Let me double-check Apr 28 12:17:15 normal, i.e. portrait Apr 28 12:18:32 Laibsch: ok, thanks. I just wondered if the issues you face on collie have something in common with some ipaqs' screen rotation Apr 28 12:19:11 Laibsch: well, ipaqs on their own with that then ;-). not that it's big issue, just wante dto make sure that if someone works on that, one kept in mind ipaqs too ;-) Apr 28 12:20:54 So, your initial suspicion turned out not be causing this? Apr 28 12:46:30 Laibsch: sorry, was afk. well, ipaqs don't have probs with callibration (i have h3900 which has rotated screen). the only issue is just native console orientation, and I wanted to know if someother devices has such issue Apr 28 14:31:14 heh, I wonder why angstrom-console-image thinks it's important to build gnome :) Apr 28 14:37:34 poli: avahi mis-dependency. go find and lart pH5 for still not fixing it. Apr 28 14:37:43 oops Apr 28 14:37:47 polyonymous: ^^ Apr 28 14:37:51 I see. Apr 28 14:38:10 Well, suspected something like that, but didn't look it up. Apr 28 14:39:04 I was wondering... At the beginning of build bitbake said 'No preferred provider glibc 2.5 available' (or something that amounts to it, anyway). Why is that? Apr 28 14:39:20 I haven't looked into OE tree for almost a year now... Apr 28 14:39:49 polyonymous: feel free to ignore that Apr 28 14:40:04 psokolovsky, that I did, just thought you'd comment on it ;-) Apr 28 14:41:00 Is there (yes, I know, even if there is it's unsupported and unmaintained) specific opie target for angstrom? Apr 28 14:41:13 bb 1.8+ should have slightly clear msg - not available from the point of view of some specific package, for the rest of package, it's there ;-) Apr 28 14:41:39 polyonymous: http://www.linuxtogo.org/gowiki/OpieWithAngstrom Apr 28 14:41:42 ahh.. I have bitbake from branch 1.6... Probably should --switch Apr 28 14:41:50 ah, thank you! Apr 28 14:42:14 just in case, I still use 1.6 too ;-) Apr 28 14:42:36 Ah, so it's okay to use it. Then I won't switch yet. Apr 28 14:43:42 heh, the page describes generally what I apparently did a few months ago trying to build angstrom with opie, for what I can tell by my local.conf :) Good, guess there are chances... Apr 28 14:45:30 psokolovsky, for what I can tell by your name and ip, you may be interested in cyrillic support, how're the things in the field? Apr 28 14:47:15 polyonymous: Angstrom comes by default with internationalized fonts (except CJK), and both opie and gpe have russian virtual keyabord layouts available. Apr 28 14:47:37 psokolovsky, how about physical keyboard? Apr 28 14:47:44 polyonymous: that layout stuff is not perfect (and I indeed have working on that on todo), but works. Apr 28 14:48:03 Yeah, I had to do some fixes on opie.... Apr 28 14:48:11 polyonymous: well, that would just depend on kernel keymap mostly, I guess. I don't have such device ;-) Apr 28 14:50:16 psokolovsky, Okay, I think I'll need to see for myself. I can't afford ruining the device at the moment, so I'll have to play in chroot and that gives me some freedom :) Apr 28 14:51:43 polyonymous: ok. if you found out how to do that, feel free to contribute it via bug tracker. I'm sure there're existing solutions, just again, I never used zaurus myself ;-) Apr 28 15:04:26 psokolovsky, I think I already have a few entries in opie tracker. Apr 28 15:04:56 If only I could remember what the URL was :) Apr 28 17:33:48 hmmm... angstrom-console-image fails to build with ipkg-cl: command not found. Guess it needs to depend on ipkg-native somehow... Apr 28 17:36:57 im having a problem with wifi on spitz, the card flashes but doesnt seem to want to connect, can anyone give me a pointer to CLI utils that can help me connect? Apr 28 17:37:12 * Zero_Chaos points to ##linux Apr 28 17:37:27 iwconfig? Apr 28 17:37:32 Zero_Chaos: cant seem to find any of the tools i am used to like iwconfig Apr 28 17:37:54 because they are not installed Apr 28 17:37:59 no wifi stuff is Apr 28 17:38:13 ah ok, so i just grab wireless-tool or something from the feeds? Apr 28 17:38:34 yeah, and everything else you need, network-manager plugin for wifi, etc Apr 28 17:38:54 cool thx for the pointer, knew i was missing something silly Apr 28 17:40:50 which arch is spitz, armv4/5 or 6? apologies for newbie qs Apr 28 17:41:36 for what I can tell by tmp/work - arm5te (not that I really know anything about its internals) Apr 28 17:41:43 thx Apr 28 18:42:30 xorg-server-1.2.0.tar.bz2 checksum failed... hmm.. Apr 28 18:42:48 is it me or is it not me? Apr 28 18:43:05 how many times you try? Apr 28 18:43:26 Zero_Chaos, twice. That is first it failed and then I removed, refetched and it failed again. Apr 28 18:43:41 from http://xorg.freedesktop.org/releases/individual/xserver/xorg-server-1.2.0.tar.bz2 Apr 28 18:43:54 (dunno if there are mirrors defined, etc.) Apr 28 18:44:33 may not be you then, maybe report a bug and someone will try to verify Apr 28 18:44:49 That's what I've done :) Not sure if it deserve bugs on bugzilla. Apr 28 18:45:07 maybe I should've done it on OE. Apr 28 18:45:27 yeah, it does. goes against oe and metadata in angstrom Apr 28 18:45:50 if something fails, it deserves a bug, as long as you reasonably try to make sure it isn't your fault. Apr 28 18:46:23 Yes, I mean, the nature of the bug is that it may be easier to report it on IRC and get fixed. Of course, once it doesn't help it makes sense to file the bug. Apr 28 18:54:02 filed. Apr 28 19:41:37 So...I am a collie user...I hear Angstrom is going to support collies...that would make me a very hap[py man Apr 28 19:45:34 Can I get some confirmation on this? Are there going to be install directions for the slower among us (myself)? Since Angstrom doesn't support OPIE yet (possibly ever) is there another light weight GUI I could use? Having a real X server is nice, having an old PDA slow to a crawl to open a file menu is not... Apr 28 19:48:19 I guess I should consider it a good thing that those in this chat room are too busy either coding or carrying on their normal lives to answer me =) Apr 28 20:00:16 TheFool, dunno how about collie, but x aren't really dogslow. I'm more concerned about features... Apr 28 20:05:43 a 206 Mhz processor can make anything "dogslow" and true I am a bit concerned about "features" but the fact is I haven't seen enough documentation about what features it has to worry about what features it doesn't Apr 28 20:06:22 TheFool: consider contributing to opie support and maintenance then Apr 28 20:07:23 :) Apr 28 20:09:18 Good point. First, I'd like to see if I can get opie start at all :) Apr 28 20:09:57 well, first I think I should see if I can build it :) Apr 28 20:12:15 from what I am reading opie and angstrom aren't getting along... Apr 28 20:12:16 http://www.handhelds.org/hypermail/htc-pxa/current/0058.html Apr 28 20:13:57 TheFool: that's old stuff. it grew up. http://www.linuxtogo.org/gowiki/OpieWithAngstrom Apr 28 20:14:20 good to hear reading now :) Apr 28 20:14:33 well, TheFool, I wouldn't expect it to work out of the box, but worth an attempt :) Apr 28 20:15:07 I don't expect anything to work out of the box, and I am perfectly fine with that Apr 28 20:15:34 TheFool, then fight for it :) Apr 28 20:17:07 I am rather split on this. On one hand opie is as lightweight as I have found, on the other it has more than it's fair share of bugs, and a true X system sounds nice... Maybe after finals I will see if I can help out Apr 28 20:17:21 what GUI does Angstrom use? Apr 28 20:18:35 TheFool, well, I'd like to see at least opie-reader for x11 and that is possible, I think, but I haven't got time to look into it... I'm using mostly opie-reader, kdepimpi and opie-console... Apr 28 20:18:58 opie in OE.dev works out of the box, but depending what you mean by that. it for sure has pretty big issues like lack of sound. it may be simple though, like change a line of code. noone just got to that yet Apr 28 20:19:30 and noone just because there're few people who really would like to work on opie nowadays, vs just have it around Apr 28 20:19:31 I don't think I'll put any effort into fixing sound, because I really don't care about it:) Apr 28 20:19:57 the only hope I see is exactly folsk with lo-power hw (~200MHz ore less, 32Mb ram, etc) Apr 28 20:20:06 As for working out of the box... Well, have you tried, for instance, set utf8 locale and open russian multikey? Apr 28 20:20:16 hmm I use my Zaurus as an MP3 player connected via wifi to my 200gig HD at home...I want sound... Apr 28 20:20:40 so yea I would be glad to work on that lol, if there is hope for opie as a whole Apr 28 20:21:49 I am getting nothing but typos googling folsk... Apr 28 20:22:03 Maybe, indeed, it makes sense to put more effort into porting missing stuff to x11 image... But well, I first should build the damn thing and now I can't even complete x11 image with 'Cannot find package xserver-kdrive-fbdev.' ;-) Apr 28 20:22:16 TheFool, try correcting typo? :) Apr 28 20:23:07 hehe misread what he said, I was thinking folsk was the only hope he saw for people with low power hardware... Apr 28 20:23:25 ;-)))) Apr 28 20:23:25 I was like "what is folsk?" Apr 28 20:23:34 lol Apr 28 20:23:42 have to earn my nick somehow... Apr 28 20:23:57 anyways so what GUI is normally used with angstrom? Apr 28 20:23:58 I was just about to suggest that you have to live by your nickname :) Apr 28 20:24:03 gpe, I think. Apr 28 20:24:10 TheFool: opie is nice GUI framework with lots of real-world usable software. there's no really alternative except GPE. so, it will live anyway. the q, if it will be in local corners, or in one common place like OE. I stepped out with maintenance exactly to let the second variant to unfold. the rest depends on people who are interested in it ;-) Apr 28 20:25:16 Yes, that's the most frustrating thing about opie - it managed to gain many useful software and sustaining life in it would be just the thing :) Apr 28 20:25:54 But so far I think none of the bugs I submitted (along with fixes) to opie bugtracker had any activity... Apr 28 20:26:42 and I don't think submitting patches with patches against OE tree makes sense when the stuff should be fixed upstream. Apr 28 20:26:43 except the latest mail program is broken the lastest VNC client is broken...the latest vncserver will totally screw your kernel...It needs maintenance. Without maintenance there is not much interest. Without interest there is not much maintenance... Apr 28 20:27:06 Umm... mail program I use called 'ssh' :) Apr 28 20:27:28 vnc client worked fine for me, but I used it only a couple of times. Apr 28 20:27:37 thats what I resorted to as well, but before I was trying to use their GUI program... Apr 28 20:28:19 the gui program was absolutely not prepared to handle non-ascii emails, so it was just half-written (as opposed to broken) Apr 28 20:28:21 it depends on the version. I submitted a fix a while back but... Apr 28 20:28:36 never tried it with a non-ascii email... Apr 28 20:28:56 polyonymous: well, exactly, opie bugs go to opie upstream. and they *are* processed. to OE bugtracker go bugs on specific integration issues, for example, adding a new machine could be requested in OE tracker (though response would be still - make sure you submitted that upstream too) Apr 28 20:29:00 For me it is a critical for mua to handle non-ascii. Apr 28 20:29:10 hmm maybe I had a few non-ascii emails when I was testing...that would explain things... Apr 28 20:29:50 psokolovsky, my fixes were mostly related to internationalization if I remember correctly... Guess I need to find my opie tracker password :) Apr 28 20:30:39 polyonymous: yes, please do. it may be too late for 1.2.3 (it's in freeze now), but throwing an email at opie-devel list with links to them would help ;-) Apr 28 20:30:54 hang on Apr 28 20:31:14 alll the fixes are like one-liners Apr 28 20:31:40 psokolovsky, like this, for instance: http://opie-bugs.oszine.de/view.php?id=1764 Apr 28 20:32:14 and this http://opie-bugs.oszine.de/view.php?id=1766 Apr 28 20:32:50 Looks like I haven't submit any other fixes and for those I should dig my hdd which isn't quite easy :) Apr 28 20:36:34 polyonymous: please submit a mail to opie-devel at handhelds.org requesting these two patches being merged for 1.2.3. That should be OK by freeze rules (bugs already in tracker should be ok to be resolved). I'll vote for that too. Apr 28 20:37:03 I'm not subscribed... Apr 28 20:37:29 polyonymous: though I'm not too much sure about using utf8 in 1764 %). common solution is to use transliteration still... Apr 28 20:38:00 polyonymous: subscribe then, or try to post w/o subscription ;-) Apr 28 20:38:01 psokolovsky, As I mentioned in the bug - I'm willing to put my time into replacing it with unicode name. Apr 28 20:39:06 psokolovsky, I should sort out my email setup before I subscribe to any lists and I do not feel like bombarding list from the outside even if it's allowed. I mean, it's not quite nice to come in, demand something and not even listen. Apr 28 20:39:23 polyonymous: yep, sounds good. I'm sure it will fit 1.2.3, but if not, I'll commit it to OE at least. Apr 28 20:40:02 Well, okay, then I will add another attachment to the same opie bug. Apr 28 20:40:42 polyonymous: ok. my point is that your submissions are useful and appreciated. just sorry, i cannot push them myself for example, have lots of my own stuff ;-). (and I am opie-in-oe maintainer, not opie maintainer ;-)) Apr 28 20:41:33 I understand. On the other hand, being not active opie developer (and consequently not subscribed to any list), I find filing fixes in tracker being enough for contribution. Apr 28 20:41:59 And whether you're opie maintainer or opie-in-oe maintainer, I do not blame you, anyway ;-) Apr 28 20:44:55 hmm... Apr 28 20:45:57 in my distfiles/cvs directory I `find . -name ru.keymap` to find it in opie-zkbapplet checkout... Doesn't sound logical to me :) Apr 28 20:47:31 polyonymous: yep, that should be enough in perfect world. but we have scarce community still, so people come and go, project freeze and thaw, and sometimes some pushing is required ;-) Apr 28 20:48:25 psokolovsky, true. But I've never been able to push stuff, not only in development :) Unless you're talking about `git push` :)) Apr 28 20:48:38 ;-) Apr 28 20:51:04 actually, it's not that I have problems with it, it's just it is the sign of this unfortunate situation around development that you described... Apr 28 21:15:31 here it goes (this transcribed unicode stuff that is) Apr 28 21:16:34 uh... I've just build opie-image for angstrom... Let's see if I can get it run :) Apr 28 21:16:54 polyonymous: thanks! Apr 28 21:17:07 you're welcome :) Apr 28 21:31:00 damn :( it's been a long time since I altbooted last time and now my kexec tells me function not implemented :(( Apr 28 21:31:31 that means I can't try it without ruining my current setup... Apr 28 21:32:16 I take it there's no way to boot kernel off of cf? Apr 28 21:32:27 polyonymous: kexec got mainline in .21, under different syscall # than was before. userspace needs update too. maybe that's an issue. Apr 28 21:33:05 Hmm.. maybe I should try binary kexec-tools.. Because there's no more OZ in .dev and I can't build it for my system... Apr 28 21:35:42 can't find kexec tools anywhere in http://ewi546.ewi.utwente.nl/mirror/www.openzaurus.org/official/unstable/3.5.4.1/feed/ Apr 29 00:31:17 So are the beta images for angstrom useable? Apr 29 00:31:27 im thinking about making the switch today Apr 29 00:56:28 hello, i'm looing in http://www.angstrom-distribution.org/unstable/images/spitz/20070422/ and can find zImage and updater.sh, but can someone please tell me where to find initrd.bin? Apr 29 01:45:59 alaya you have to rename the rootfs.tar.gz to initrd.bin i think... Apr 29 01:46:24 but on spitz it is hdimage1.tgz instead of initrd.bin **** ENDING LOGGING AT Sun Apr 29 02:59:56 2007