**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Apr 30 02:59:56 2007 Apr 30 03:18:51 I notice there is a collie image for Angstrom, does that mean that sd cards are now avaliable using 2.6? Apr 30 03:18:57 2.6 kernel sorry Apr 30 04:26:50 I notice there is a collie image for Angstrom, does that mean that sd cards are now avaliable using 2.6? Apr 30 04:26:52 2.6 kernel sorry Apr 30 06:24:41 I notice there is a collie image for Angstrom, does that mean that sd cards are now avaliable using 2.6 kernel? Apr 30 06:56:31 I notice there is a collie image for Angstrom, does that mean that sd cards are now avaliable using 2.6 kernel? Apr 30 07:03:35 works for certain SD cards, but not all. Please search the angstrom mailing list and bugtracker for discussion Apr 30 07:05:38 thanks Apr 30 08:00:58 morning Apr 30 09:14:49 pH5: guten morgen! Apr 30 09:17:40 goedemorgen! Apr 30 09:17:57 :) Apr 30 09:18:14 yo pH5 Apr 30 09:18:37 hey XorA Apr 30 09:19:08 Downloading http://www.angstrom-distribution.org/unstable/feed/armv4t/machine/fic-gta01/kernel-module-vfat_2.6.21.1-moko9-r0_fic-gta01.ipk Apr 30 09:19:41 * koen is developing a dislike for kernel partitions Apr 30 09:22:06 can u-boot load the kernel from jffs2? Apr 30 09:23:03 yes Apr 30 09:23:11 the u-boot jffs2 driver is slow, though Apr 30 09:31:02 hey koen i sent you a mail reply because i cannot get registered for the web site Apr 30 09:32:44 which procmail filters to /dev/null Apr 30 10:16:03 Any wikipedia on angstrom project, yet? Apr 30 10:16:12 * Laibsch only half-joking Apr 30 10:16:52 where did the other half go? :) Apr 30 10:17:37 Laibsch: isn't that like 5 minutes of work? Apr 30 10:17:53 download dump, put in squashfs, build reader Apr 30 10:21:43 koen: Well, if it is that easy all the better Apr 30 10:21:59 I was wondering about size of the data and speed being an issue Apr 30 10:22:22 which reader would you recommend? What format for the dump? Apr 30 10:22:43 isn't that all on wikipedia.org/ Apr 30 10:22:44 ? Apr 30 10:22:44 I guess installing mysql and apache is an option but I guess there must be something "lighter" Apr 30 10:22:56 well, there is some information Apr 30 10:23:05 And it has progressed since the last time I looked Apr 30 10:23:23 But there is nothing for angstrom distribution Apr 30 10:23:29 lots for WinCE and friends Apr 30 10:23:40 So, that is why I am asking Apr 30 10:24:04 There is a dump of static .jp wikipedia at ~700MB for example Apr 30 10:24:10 Size-wise very nice Apr 30 10:24:23 But I wonder about access time Apr 30 10:24:25 years ago someone did a dump for OZ Apr 30 10:24:45 unless old posts dissapear in oesf forums youll probably find it Apr 30 10:24:48 XorA: But it was very incomplete, broken links, big Apr 30 10:25:02 XorA: I think I know which one you are talking about Apr 30 10:25:02 Laibsch: the main problem with the previous efforts is "OMG Zaurus!!!" or "OMG qtopia!!1" Apr 30 10:25:18 There are several possible approaches and I would like to get a grasp on them Apr 30 10:25:41 koen: Enlighten me. I want to understand and use this Apr 30 10:25:51 For long, actually. Apr 30 10:26:11 Laibsch: people were too focused on getting something that would only work on a zaurus and/or qtopia Apr 30 10:26:13 koen: What do you propose? sql or static, what compression, what reader? Apr 30 10:26:30 koen: Let's do it the right way this time Apr 30 10:27:03 BTW, does OE have a backend for a p2p download? ;-) We would not want every OE user sucking up all of wikipedia's bandwidth Apr 30 10:27:14 koen: Let's not talk about the past Apr 30 10:27:36 What are your suggestions? You think it should be easy, a 5-minute job Apr 30 10:27:49 Can you spare a minute to *tell* me how I could do this? Apr 30 10:28:53 Laibsch: it would make more sense to use ctorrent on the target to do the download than OE Apr 30 10:29:09 Laibsch: so package is minimal, on first boot it pulls a dump via torrent Apr 30 10:29:28 s/boot/run. Apr 30 10:29:46 XorA: sound reasonable Apr 30 10:30:55 koen: Can I pay you to get that 5-minute job done for me? The hourly rate should not be so much of a problem. Apr 30 10:31:43 or was yours a mathematician's answer "the rest is trivial" when in fact the mathematician has not yet achieved anything and the rest is where the "juice" really is Apr 30 10:32:20 I'm trying to find a app to convert the MW xml to something human readable Apr 30 10:32:34 koen: deplate? Apr 30 10:32:56 koen: Thank you. I misinterpreted your silence Apr 30 10:33:03 I apologize Apr 30 10:33:07 koen: scratch that thinking of the wrong tool Apr 30 10:33:14 XorA: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Data_dumps Apr 30 10:33:54 I was thinking about http://static.wikipedia.org/downloads/November_2006/ja/ Apr 30 10:34:04 or whatever language you prefer Apr 30 10:34:28 that just needs a browser, right? Apr 30 10:34:37 koen: sort of Apr 30 10:34:50 the problem I see is with seek times. Apr 30 10:35:02 you have an answer/solution for that? Apr 30 10:35:10 recompress it in a different format? Apr 30 10:35:46 of course, searching in the database would be nice, too. But could be done in a second phase Apr 30 10:35:53 seektimes are irrelevant on SD of CF Apr 30 10:35:59 (on anything without platters) Apr 30 10:36:09 koen: I mean access times Apr 30 10:36:39 how many seconds/minutes/hours before the device has decompressed the data and accessed random article X Apr 30 10:36:59 The right term might be latency Apr 30 10:37:12 But I am not firm on the expert vocab Apr 30 10:37:37 squashfs is pretty fast Apr 30 10:37:39 in case of, say, .tar.gz you may well call it seek :) Apr 30 10:38:16 koen: Is there a transparent squashfs decopression? Apr 30 10:38:52 Laibsch: you mount is as a compresed (read only) filesystem Apr 30 10:38:56 just like jffs2 Apr 30 10:39:42 koen: sounds like a plan. Thank you very much. Apr 30 10:42:18 Do we have any kind of indexing software like beagle (god forbid) in OE yet? Apr 30 10:43:27 we have clucene, which is the algo beagle uses Apr 30 10:43:35 and for the gui we have tracker Apr 30 10:44:05 http://www.gnome.org/projects/tracker/ Apr 30 10:45:01 crap Apr 30 10:45:08 clucene? Apr 30 10:45:11 once I again I forgot to commit something Apr 30 10:45:17 we have very old version of clucene Apr 30 10:45:19 OLD Apr 30 10:48:09 well, that could be updated Apr 30 11:04:27 koen: I hope you will commit tracker. BTW, "mtn ls changed" and "mtn ls unknown" help tremendously. I know the feeling ;-) Apr 30 11:04:51 tracker looks really nice Apr 30 11:08:00 * Laibsch curses the generic name of tracker Apr 30 11:08:23 Anybody know if tracker is yet packaged in any desktop distro, preferably ubuntu/debian? Apr 30 11:08:59 * koen hands Laibsch http://packages.ubuntu.com/cgi-bin/search_packages.pl?keywords=tracker&searchon=names&subword=1&version=feisty&release=all Apr 30 11:10:04 ah, feisty. I had used "apt-cache search" (I am still on edgy) Apr 30 12:36:40 Laibsch: did you see http://www.kscripts.com/ksearch-client-side/faqs.html ? Apr 30 12:55:19 koen: no, thank you for pointing it out Apr 30 12:57:30 hrw: I tried to test my SD cards on the collie. Apr 30 12:57:58 How can I identify the cards *on the collie* (looking for an lspci-equivalent if it exists) Apr 30 12:58:23 I do get reactions from the driver upon insertion and removal since a bunch of messages fly by. Apr 30 12:59:20 But how do I find out if the card is supported or not and what the driver has identified about the card? What information will I need to gather from the machine for Thomas to be able and try to come up with a fix? Apr 30 12:59:41 Laibsch: if you have /dev/mmcblk0 then card is identified Apr 30 12:59:52 if you do not have it then card is not identified Apr 30 12:59:55 I don't have it for any of the cards :-( Apr 30 13:00:18 Laibsch: ask Thomas for updates? Apr 30 13:00:22 hrw: So what can I do? Is sending the cards to Thomas the only option? Apr 30 13:00:42 hrw: Well, to get an update I would need to provide him with information, I guess Apr 30 13:00:57 I can tell the make and model, but I doubt that is of real value Apr 30 13:01:05 Laibsch: ask him Apr 30 13:01:18 OK, I thought you had an idea as well Apr 30 13:01:23 Thanks Apr 30 13:01:29 nope Apr 30 13:01:33 ~seen thesing Apr 30 13:01:43 koen: invite ibot here... Apr 30 13:03:27 hrw: you can do that as well :) Apr 30 13:03:44 Laibsch: there should be some /sys node that has the CID of the card Apr 30 13:07:41 Laibsch: could you do 'ls /sys/class/mmc_host/mmc0/' after inserting a card? Apr 30 13:08:34 that should have a 'mmc:' subdir for your card Apr 30 13:10:38 with contents like: http://rafb.net/p/Vuunth98.html Apr 30 13:15:17 koen: First card Apr 30 13:16:01 uevent (file), power/wakeup (file) subsystem (ln to ../) Apr 30 13:16:24 This card had produced "INVALID RESPONSE"s Apr 30 13:16:30 ok, so that card isn't recognized at all Apr 30 13:16:55 Other card is the same Apr 30 13:17:17 same for the third Apr 30 13:17:22 OK, thanks Apr 30 13:21:01 Laibsch: sometimes the card gets recognized (cid, csd) present, but doesn't work Apr 30 13:21:15 but it seems they don't get recognized at all Apr 30 13:23:27 Well, there is some reaction from the driver Apr 30 13:23:46 and it appears the 1G card is recognized better than the two 156MB ones Apr 30 13:23:50 256 Apr 30 13:24:00 Laibsch: old cards are more problematic Apr 30 13:24:23 Sandisk transflash works :-) Apr 30 13:24:31 the latter two produce "INVALID RESPONSE"s and the 1G card produces no discernible error on the console Apr 30 13:24:45 hrw: The 1G card is from August last year Apr 30 13:24:52 Is that old? Apr 30 13:25:01 * Laibsch feels VERY old now Apr 30 13:25:04 ;-) Apr 30 13:25:20 256M ones are old Apr 30 13:25:48 * hrw will have to check recent kernel on collie later Apr 30 13:26:02 Didn't you have some 64M cards? Apr 30 13:26:10 or even 32M? Apr 30 13:26:19 I sent 64 and 256 ones to Thomas Apr 30 13:26:30 yea, right Apr 30 13:26:33 he got 64M to work Apr 30 13:27:07 XorA: http://www.angstrom-distribution.org/unstable/images/c7x0/20070429/ Apr 30 13:27:12 those have your serial fix Apr 30 13:27:49 koen: excellent, then people will have more Angstrom loving when swtching from OZ Apr 30 13:28:14 XorA: Can you add that information to http://www.linuxtogo.org/gowiki/ZaurusCollie ? Apr 30 13:28:26 XorA: I'm still looking for an easy way to build a flashboot an a sdboot kernel in one run Apr 30 13:28:31 Laibsch: no, its not relevant Apr 30 13:29:52 XorA: Why not? I think it is very good to have an overview of what cards work and which ones do not yet Apr 30 13:30:15 Laibsch: collie doesnt have a PXA cpu, so totally irrelevant to my fix Apr 30 13:32:04 XorA: Oh, I read Sandisk and thought this was an SD card Apr 30 13:32:35 koen: Can I extract the CID (whatever that is) from a card reader attached to my laptop? Apr 30 13:33:15 Card ID, and no idea Apr 30 13:34:36 Laibsch: of oops, sorry, was thinking CF cards which is what I fixed, transflash is microSD so Im not sure I should be tempting people to stick in cards that dont fit :-D Apr 30 13:36:59 * XorA tries to remeber if he actually tested his Extreme III in the collie Apr 30 13:38:53 Laibsch: added Apr 30 13:41:35 ~lart wierd linking error in liferea Apr 30 13:53:50 thanks Apr 30 13:54:02 * koen gave up adding liferea to OE a few months ago Apr 30 13:57:15 2.6.20 finally booted on my d400 Apr 30 13:57:45 koen: got 1.3.3 to the last link command Apr 30 14:42:54 Hello, I'm running into some md5sum errors on the Angstrom packagefeed, should I report these? Apr 30 14:43:34 anyone know a simple util to set RTS alarms? Apr 30 14:43:47 and, can I force ipkg to install regardless of those errors? I can't seem to find an option to do so Apr 30 14:45:15 RTC alars Apr 30 14:45:18 alarms Apr 30 14:45:27 bloody hell typing has left me again Apr 30 14:45:34 XorA: atd? Apr 30 14:45:58 koen: the man page for that wasnt helpful Apr 30 14:46:40 the one in OE is the gpe fork iirc Apr 30 14:47:05 we have atd and gpe-atd Apr 30 14:47:22 at = atd, atd = gpe-atd iirc Apr 30 14:47:33 koen: ah yeah I was just checking the source Apr 30 14:49:37 that should do it Apr 30 14:56:11 heh Apr 30 14:56:24 "I don't really get the whole OE thing. What benefits would there be to switching to OE?" - confession of a pdaX developer Apr 30 14:56:47 after months of "it sucks" the truth emerges Apr 30 14:57:51 will you reply? Apr 30 14:57:58 no Apr 30 14:58:45 it is of no use explaining OE to people that won't do development anyway Apr 30 15:08:33 rule #3 and #4 seem to be very hard for people (http://www.angstrom-distribution.org/) Apr 30 15:10:50 Laibsch: could you try herding people that ask questions in to following #3 and #4? Apr 30 15:12:39 scap.linuxtogo.org either isnt very reactive or is busted Apr 30 15:13:17 http://scap.linuxtogo.org/ seems to work over here Apr 30 15:13:20 speaking about scap... Apr 30 15:13:23 haven't tried to upload anything Apr 30 15:13:45 koen: I just uploaded and its not there Apr 30 15:13:49 koen: can you do magic admin powers and chown website of scap so anyone from scap group can update it? Apr 30 15:13:57 sure Apr 30 15:14:39 koen: what do you mean? Get people to update the wiki and stuff? Apr 30 15:14:51 I do that now whenever I can Apr 30 15:15:12 But I don't deem it necessary to have "rule-master" Apr 30 15:15:17 Laibsch: I browsed the -users list archive today and got very depressed Apr 30 15:15:20 or is it? Apr 30 15:15:32 angstrom-users? Apr 30 15:15:36 yes Apr 30 15:15:55 hrw: 'scap' or 'scaplinuxtogo' ? Apr 30 15:16:54 well, koen, for one it would help if the wiki was linked from the top page Apr 30 15:17:02 it is Apr 30 15:17:11 the rules have more than one like to the wiki Apr 30 15:17:21 I for one did not contribute until about yesterday because I did not know where Apr 30 15:17:34 * Laibsch is not talking about the rules Apr 30 15:17:46 forget last comment Apr 30 15:18:15 koen: proper one Apr 30 15:18:28 koen: *I* find it hard to find where to contribute stuff in angstrom Apr 30 15:18:41 I can imagine others will feel worse Apr 30 15:19:01 Where is the wiki linked on the top page? Apr 30 15:19:45 3 times in the 'introduction' section Apr 30 15:20:03 if you can't find that, I think I will never be able to help you Apr 30 15:20:07 koen: Furthermore it would help if we had mediawiki ;-) Apr 30 15:20:11 Are there any ways to contribute besides bugzilla? Apr 30 15:20:20 koen: See? Apr 30 15:20:26 Ångström need to get wiki first Apr 30 15:20:30 A link to the wiki in the menu might be useful Apr 30 15:20:33 polyonymous: Yes, there is a wiki Apr 30 15:20:33 now it fills LTG wiki Apr 30 15:20:42 website also need updating etc.. Apr 30 15:20:44 hrw: a wiki is a wiki Apr 30 15:20:44 Laibsch, Ah, you mean contribute to wiki content? Apr 30 15:20:47 koen: Third person Apr 30 15:21:07 koen: a mess is a mess Apr 30 15:21:13 hrw: sure Apr 30 15:21:24 koen: Well, then let's get the media*wiki*. It seems you don't care ;-) Apr 30 15:21:32 *media*wiki Apr 30 15:21:35 Laibsch: read my email Apr 30 15:21:50 mysql? Apr 30 15:21:53 koen: LTG wiki with Ångström/ltg/scap/marvell8385/this/that/other/and/some/thing/more/which/got/added/into/projects/and/more/or/even/more/etc Apr 30 15:22:27 hrw: no one has come up with a decent reason to have a seperate wiki Apr 30 15:22:40 "we need a wiki" is not a decent reason Apr 30 15:22:41 I'm about to sign off in order to cook diner, should I report md5 errors on packages in the bugtracker? Apr 30 15:22:57 koen: look at OZ wiki Apr 30 15:23:01 * hrw -> food Apr 30 15:23:16 hrw: I only see spam at the oz wiki Apr 30 15:23:34 * Laibsch reads koens mail Apr 30 15:24:13 koen: you got lotsa reasons. You just ignore them as usual "people are used to it" is a VERY important reason Apr 30 15:24:40 people are also used to war and violence Apr 30 15:24:42 koen: ignoring that fact takes the right from you to complain about users not contributing back to the wiki Apr 30 15:25:02 koen mangling words again Apr 30 15:25:13 Let's stay constructive and on-topic please Apr 30 15:25:14 "people are used to it" is not a decent reason Apr 30 15:25:34 ???? Apr 30 15:25:50 It is when you expect people not very deep into the project to contribute their findings Apr 30 15:25:56 constructive reasons why the wiki thats there is not usable would be nice Apr 30 15:26:00 people are more likely to use a wiki whose interface they know Apr 30 15:26:03 better? Apr 30 15:26:18 XorA: Nobody said it is not usable Apr 30 15:26:26 and that indeed is not the case Apr 30 15:26:36 Laibsch: then it is there, whats the issue apart from a missing link in sidebar Apr 30 15:26:47 which link sidebar? Apr 30 15:27:04 * Laibsch hates to reiterate over and over Apr 30 15:27:31 XorA: Mediawiki will attract more users Apr 30 15:27:36 a wiki is a bunch of webpage with an 'edit' button Apr 30 15:27:44 if nothing else it will make me more likely to contribute Apr 30 15:28:00 Well personally Id put a link where Contact, Building Angstrom etc are Apr 30 15:28:07 koen: Then give me another edit button. It seems you don't particularly care Apr 30 15:28:19 but I havent analised how the angstrom page is actually constructed Apr 30 15:28:46 I'm in doubt if attracting more users with eye-catching pages at this stage of development is a good thing... Apr 30 15:28:58 Laibsch: Like I said, nobody has given any reason why moinmoin isn't useable Apr 30 15:28:59 it is not about eye-catching Apr 30 15:29:10 koen: OK Apr 30 15:29:12 personally I loath all wiki Apr 30 15:29:13 I give up Apr 30 15:29:18 Same shit as always Apr 30 15:29:27 so moinmoin works for me Apr 30 15:29:44 I don't buy the "mediawiki will magically give us more contributors" Apr 30 15:29:52 * Laibsch will ignore the wiki from now on Apr 30 15:30:03 and I will certainly not recruit users for it Apr 30 15:30:19 Laibsch: you are sounding like "Install mediawiki or I quit" Apr 30 15:30:25 and I think chiding them for not using it is arrogant Apr 30 15:30:28 Laibsch: not much different to what you accuse koen of Apr 30 15:30:29 XorA: Maybe Apr 30 15:30:30 * polyonymous prefers to ignore the whole phenomenon of wiki :) Apr 30 15:30:45 What I really want to say is "I am fed up with arguing against a wall" Apr 30 15:31:33 I am probably going to be a heavy user of the wiki (see OZ wiki) Apr 30 15:31:47 I don't feel like putting up with crap if my voice is not hears Apr 30 15:31:50 heard Apr 30 15:32:07 with koen it just happens too often Apr 30 15:32:13 This needs to be sorted out Apr 30 15:32:30 you haven't given any decent argument against moinmoin Apr 30 15:32:35 * Laibsch does not feel like proposing governance for angstrom, though <- hard work Apr 30 15:32:44 koen: you have not listened Apr 30 15:32:45 only strawmen and handwaving Apr 30 15:32:48 like always Apr 30 15:32:52 OK Apr 30 15:32:56 leave it as that Apr 30 15:33:14 koen: Have you given any argument *for* moinmoin? Apr 30 15:33:39 it's already present and maintained by the ltg people Apr 30 15:33:55 that is the wrong way to build a house Apr 30 15:34:05 so you need to give us, and the ltg admins a reason to spent their time installing a new wiki and moving content Apr 30 15:34:08 * Laibsch in koen-style: that is not an argument Apr 30 15:34:18 no, I don't Apr 30 15:34:23 especially for you: http://www.angstrom-distribution.org/wiki Apr 30 15:34:26 As I said, I am fed up Apr 30 15:34:28 and hungry Apr 30 15:35:28 http://www.angstrom-distribution.org/ seems to have lost more info now :-D Apr 30 15:37:04 1st thing why LTG wiki is not ok: it is shared between all projects. so if we want to change something (like look&feel) then some projects can complain. 2nd thing: it is open to edit by anyone. We need 'register-to-edit' one as this limit amount of spam a bit. 3rd: tellinf that 'ltg admins need to spent time installing new wiki' is bullshit. All you need to do is giving database infos and path on server. wiki admin can do the rest. And we have one ... Apr 30 15:37:09 I decided it was too distracting Apr 30 15:37:10 ... from OZ team. Apr 30 15:37:36 and koen - I feel that your 'I want to be an asshole' switch is stuck too often Apr 30 15:37:53 hrw: it's not a switch Apr 30 15:38:06 it is pernametly on? Apr 30 15:38:22 hrw: people are welcome to install a new website and wiki, the only limitation is "no mysql" Apr 30 15:38:56 once again - why not mysql? Apr 30 15:41:07 my personal reason it that it's too hard to maintain and too fragile Apr 30 15:41:22 and I spent a lot of time talking with postgres people at conferences Apr 30 15:43:52 so mediawiki should be ok Apr 30 15:44:01 yes, like I said in my email Apr 30 15:44:14 I will look how does it works with pgsql here Apr 30 15:44:24 but since people don't read email, we are stuck debating like morons Apr 30 15:44:28 ;D Apr 30 15:45:05 please let me know if I should file md5sum errors in packages from the Angstromfeed as bugs, or if I'm just imagining things and doing it all wrong. Etenstijd nu. Apr 30 15:46:08 Freak_Food: only if they persist after an 'ipkg update' Apr 30 15:46:17 they do Apr 30 15:46:33 hrw: but the 'people are used to mediawiki' doesn't fly if the theme the hell out of it Apr 30 15:46:38 Freak_Food: sure? Apr 30 15:46:54 libid3tag0 and libmad0 Apr 30 15:46:55 sure Apr 30 15:47:17 installed them by manually adjusting the md5sum in the base feed file Apr 30 15:47:20 works Apr 30 15:48:05 *away to kitchen* Apr 30 15:49:08 time for me to leave the party before the fight really gets going :-( Apr 30 15:49:13 cyas later Apr 30 16:50:10 bugs reported Apr 30 18:45:44 hmm.. yesterday with bb 1.6 I got -x11-image built, now with bb 1.8 it failes at gpe-conf. At least seemingly unrelated to bb, though... Apr 30 20:32:27 as I progress with image build I pollute bugzilla tremendously :) Apr 30 22:03:46 koen, I'm not subscribed to oe list, so I'd rather report here that on today's build angstrom calibration is 90 degrees on my spitz. Apr 30 22:25:11 koen, the fix for revision d18552e5056a026d8ed8959e135b2fa05c3e1b6b is to spell '*BORZOI' as '*Borzoi'. Probably the same applies to other dogs. **** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue May 01 02:59:57 2007