**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue May 29 02:59:57 2007
May 29 06:48:19 <nauj27> morning all
May 29 08:08:22 <XorA> morning
May 29 08:48:29 <gremlin[it]> mornign all 
May 29 08:48:44 <XorA> hey gremlin[it] 
May 29 08:51:13 <gremlin[it]> hi XorA ! 
May 29 10:18:39 <Crofton> gm
May 29 10:19:08 <XorA> yo Crofton 
May 29 10:19:56 <koen> hey Crofton 
May 29 10:31:37 <XorA> those damn russian guys with their million new dizzy games
May 29 10:44:13 <XorA> remind me to add fuse to OE sometime
May 29 11:05:08 <koen> fuse as in filesystem in userspace?
May 29 11:13:50 <XorA> koen: nah, not this crap, ZX Spectrum emulator :-)
May 29 11:14:10 * XorA used to maintain the pdaXrom version
May 29 11:15:14 <koen> you made sure the dependencies were removed from the control file and scattered over the interweb?
May 29 11:15:44 <XorA> koen: heh heh, nah, it almost had correct dependencies
May 29 11:17:00 <hrw> XorA: and thats why you failed
May 29 11:18:26 <koen> the 3 meg ipks that poke at different bits in $HOME the pdaX dudes are spreading scare me a bit
May 29 11:19:20 <hrw> r198-sp1 package?
May 29 11:24:52 <koen> sounds like it
May 29 11:25:44 <koen> did we agree on what 'i686' is wrt mmx and sse already?
May 29 11:25:55 <koen> I remembering hrw mentioning it at fosdem
May 29 11:27:49 <hrw> i686 is pentiumpro+
May 29 11:27:59 <hrw> does not have to have sse
May 29 11:37:24 <XorA> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_P6
May 29 11:46:54 * XorA now has russian Dizzy in english on gp2x, more fun on train tonight then
May 29 11:53:18 <psokolovsky> XorA: Dizzy as an old ZX Spectrum, etc game? native or in emu you wrote about above?
May 29 11:53:45 <XorA> psokolovsky: in emul of course, dont fancy disassembling then remaking :-)
May 29 11:54:14 <psokolovsky> XorA: do you have links? I bet it's still 3+ years old, right?
May 29 11:54:38 <XorA> psokolovsky: links to Dizzy or to gp2x emulation?
May 29 11:54:51 <psokolovsky> XorA: to Dizzy of course ;-)
May 29 11:55:14 <XorA> psokolovsky: thats difficult, Codemasters dont allow distribution so its not on worldofspectrum
May 29 11:55:31 <hrw> assholes
May 29 11:55:31 <XorA> psokolovsky: try poking around on http://www.samsolutions.co.uk/dizzy/index.htm
May 29 11:55:52 <XorA> hrw: I own them all legally :_)
May 29 11:56:22 <hrw> XorA: I think that 80's games are now unsellable
May 29 11:57:07 <XorA> hrw: there is a petition to get Codemasters to hand Dizzy back to Oliver Twins (who wrote them)
May 29 11:57:25 <hrw> XorA: so 'download but do not change' should be allowed
May 29 11:57:43 <hrw> or even 'do not make cash on it'
May 29 11:57:45 <XorA> hrw: an aweful lot of spectrum games are allowed to download, see worldofspectrum
May 29 11:58:12 <psokolovsky> XorA: well, poking around boring ;-). anyway, I'm great fan of Dizzy series too! ;-)
May 29 11:58:25 <XorA> psokolovsky: they have links to the russion ones that work
May 29 11:58:44 <XorA> psokolovsky: Ive been temped to do a mb theme for Dizzy
May 29 11:58:52 <XorA> psokolovsky: little logs around windows etc
May 29 11:59:40 <XorA> psokolovsky: If I was the illegal type Id suggest bittorrent backup or emule as good sources of dizzy games :-)
May 29 11:59:42 <psokolovsky> XorA: better make sure there's an emulator which doesn't eat 100% cpu, so running games like thise won't be worse than native ;-)
May 29 12:00:01 <XorA> psokolovsky: gp2x emulator runs at 170Mhz
May 29 12:00:26 <XorA> psokolovsky: I figure fuse will run fine on pxa27x
May 29 12:00:30 <hrw> spectrum hardware was easy
May 29 12:00:51 <XorA> hrw: nope, all the memory contention causes emulator headaches
May 29 12:01:23 <psokolovsky> XorA: yeah. what I'm saying, emu should be tought to sleep as much as possible, not do busy-waiting in CPU emu dispatch...
May 29 12:15:40 <Laibsch> koen: can you please add the latest altboot to the feeds, or even better yet, give me a way to do it myself instead of letting me run around like a fool?
May 29 12:16:07 <XorA> psokolovsky: http://www.yolkfolk.com/site/petition.php
May 29 12:16:29 * Laibsch just realised latest altboot is already in
May 29 12:16:47 <Laibsch> Comment about request to be granted upload access still applies
May 29 12:21:12 <XorA> they only access to Angstrom is available only with y-fronts on your head :-)
May 29 12:32:19 * Laibsch does not understand the joke XorA is trying to make
May 29 12:32:27 <Laibsch> koen: BTW, collie altboot is missing
May 29 12:36:33 <koen> Laibsch: altboot has either been unbuildable or non-working for the past months, so I'm reluctant to add it to the feeds
May 29 12:37:12 <XorA> Laibsch: commonly modern fools in uk comedy tend to have y-fronts on their heads for unexplained reasons
May 29 12:37:31 <Laibsch> koen: It is already in and vies an option to try out new stuff without giving up your main install.
May 29 12:38:49 <Laibsch> koen: Most important question remains of how one does finally get access to feeds.  Make a Laibsch feed if you don't want to pollute the "real official" ones.  I thought this was something angstrom was trying to promote, more maintainers?
May 29 12:39:44 * koen keeps repeating "the instructions are in the mailinglist"
May 29 12:43:14 <Laibsch> koen: nice.  Helpful as always.
May 29 12:43:42 * Laibsch does not think this is the way to recruit maintainers and move away from an essentially one-man show
May 29 12:44:25 <Laibsch> I am thankful for the one-man show to get things going.  Without koen we would be light-years away from where we are.  But we need to get away from the one-man show, seriously.
May 29 12:44:42 <koen> so read the mailinglist
May 29 12:44:50 <koen> [14:39] • koen keeps repeating "the instructions are in the mailinglist"
May 29 12:45:29 <Laibsch> koen: I read the mailing list
May 29 12:45:44 <Laibsch> But, there is more than one in this world
May 29 12:46:03 <Laibsch> And google did not turn up anything with a couple of relevant keywords.
May 29 12:46:10 <Laibsch> It must really be asking too much.
May 29 13:03:25 <psokolovsky> Laibsch: so well, did you already submitted SSH keys for access to images/feed server?
May 29 13:10:21 <Laibsch> psokolovsky: no, of course not.  Because I'd need to know where to and that this was requested in the first place.
May 29 13:10:32 <Laibsch> I guess I'll send an ssh key to koen.
May 29 13:11:17 <psokolovsky> Laibsch: he several times told that machine mentors should get their ssh keys to him, so he provided access for them to upload images
May 29 13:11:32 <psokolovsky> Laibsch: I'd guess, the same 1st would be for feed maintainers too
May 29 13:11:37 <psokolovsky> Laibsch: yep, good plan
May 29 13:14:14 * rwhitby figures he should put his hand up as a machine mentor for nslu2 and brethren ...
May 29 13:21:18 * XorA sees rwhitby volunteer, he will learn :-D
May 29 13:22:03 <rwhitby> XorA: nah, I've got a whole project infrastructure set up so other people do stuff instead of me doing it ;-)
May 29 13:25:03 <Laibsch> psokolovsky: I never saw that and as you know I follow several related mailing lists and IRC closely.  Of course, I do miss things, no question.  But in any case the right thing would be to contact the machine mentors who already volunteered *personally* by mail, not expect them to react to some announcement on the mailing list (whichever list that was).
May 29 14:12:32 <koen> Laibsch: key added
May 29 14:16:08 <Crofton> I suppose I should be listed as the OSK guy on the website
May 29 14:19:01 <Laibsch> thanks
May 29 14:19:06 <Laibsch> thanks, koen
May 29 15:42:19 <koen> XorA: slightly faster cairo hitting the feeds tonight
May 29 15:42:30 <XorA> koen: cool
May 29 15:42:39 <XorA> make Angstrom even faster on neo
May 29 15:57:22 <Laibsch> koen: Well, your instructions for rsync'ing might have been mentioned several times (like you never tire to point out)
May 29 15:57:47 <Laibsch> But http://rafb.net/p/hDAQ9s91.html which is what I had was of course just temporal
May 29 15:58:15 <Laibsch> And I have been googling my ass off and don't really understand why I should.
May 29 15:58:18 <koen> 404
May 29 15:58:25 <Laibsch> bingo, 404!
May 29 15:58:33 <koen> what packages do you want to rsync?
May 29 15:58:42 <Laibsch> Meaning, the information is *no longer* there
May 29 15:58:44 <koen> or rather, which packages?
May 29 15:58:52 <Laibsch> koen: nothing.  But I want to know
May 29 15:59:52 <Laibsch> not only have I been googling my ass off
May 29 16:00:03 <Laibsch> But also scoured the IRC logs
May 29 16:00:21 <Laibsch> And finally after quite some unproductive time, found another reference
May 29 16:00:45 <Laibsch> So, THANK you, I guess I can help myself.  It could just have been so much easier
May 29 16:00:48 <koen> Laibsch: poke Steliosk to fix the sorting and indexing scripts first
May 29 16:01:21 * Laibsch pokes steliosk
May 29 16:04:29 <Laibsch> rsync <foo> -av angstrom@linuxtogo.org:/home/angstrom/website/unstable/feed/unsorted/
May 29 16:04:33 <Laibsch> Still correct?
May 29 16:23:30 <mr_nice> does anyone knows if keylaunch ist bound to a special evdev device? 
May 29 17:03:27 <jsheldon> does angstrom have a system to watch for new/changed packages in the repository and (re)build them?
May 29 17:03:39 <jsheldon> or are packages built on a developer's system then uploaded?
May 29 17:12:48 <Laibsch> koen: rsync <foo> -av angstrom@linuxtogo.org:/home/angstrom/website/unstable/feed/unsorted/
May 29 17:12:48 <Laibsch> still correct?
May 29 17:13:03 <Laibsch> jsheldon: the latter
May 29 17:13:22 <jsheldon> Laibsch: ok thanks
May 29 17:14:40 <jsheldon> my company is going to use OE for one of our products, and we have a build server that builds our packages, I was hoping a tool might already exist to watch for changes to .bb files and rebuild packages accordingly
May 29 17:14:51 <jsheldon> otherwise I'll have to make one :)
May 29 17:15:02 <koen> just do 'bitbake <foo>' in a loop 
May 29 17:15:13 <koen> if it changes it will get (re)built
May 29 17:15:45 <jsheldon> koen: here's something I don't quite have a handle on, what determines when a package merits rebuilding?
May 29 17:15:56 <koen> PV and PR
May 29 17:16:05 <koen> and since lately PE
May 29 17:16:28 <jsheldon> koen: ok that's what I hoped, I thought I had changed PR in the past and bitbake didn't pick up on it, but I must be wrong
May 29 17:17:10 <Laibsch> jsheldon: Dependencies won't automatically get rebuilt
May 29 17:17:21 <Laibsch> foo depends on bar
May 29 17:17:26 <Laibsch> bar increases PR
May 29 17:17:37 <jsheldon> yes that could be a problem
May 29 17:17:38 <Laibsch> Your loop does does "bitbake foo"
May 29 17:17:44 <Laibsch> bar won't get rebuilt
May 29 17:18:16 <jsheldon> I wonder if I just kept a master list of all packages that end up in the root file system in a variable, then loop "bitbake <package" through them, that could take care of it
May 29 17:19:16 <Laibsch> sure.  You could bake them all at once to save on setup time (bitbake initially takes a couple of seconds)
May 29 17:19:18 <jsheldon> still doesn't take care of native dependencies though
May 29 17:19:35 <Laibsch> You could also try to parse the dependency tree and rebuilt everything in there.
May 29 17:19:56 <Laibsch> If you implement something like the that I am sure others would be interested as well.
May 29 17:19:57 <jsheldon> how does one build, or access the dependency tree?  I haven't figured that one out
May 29 17:20:21 <jsheldon> bitbake must take a depends option or something
May 29 17:20:46 * Laibsch points jsheldon to
May 29 17:20:50 <Laibsch> !oebug 1161
May 29 17:20:52 <cdbot2> * * Bug 1161, Status: NEW, Created: 2006-07-12 03:37
May 29 17:20:53 <cdbot2> * * pat(AT)icore.at: if version of a library increases, bitbake does not re-build dependend packages
May 29 17:20:54 <cdbot2> * * http://bugs.openembedded.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1161
May 29 17:21:49 <jsheldon> a-ha, so I'm not the only one :)
May 29 17:22:10 <Laibsch> jsheldon: If you find something to either fix 1161 or work around it. please document it in the report
May 29 17:22:33 <jsheldon> I sure will
May 29 17:22:40 * Laibsch thinks the BTS is always the first place to look if something does not work as expected or could see an improvement
May 29 17:22:58 <Laibsch> There are often work-around readily documented, so this is a real benefit.
May 29 17:23:21 <koen> if only bugzilla search worked better...
May 29 17:23:42 <koen> it works as bad as thunderbird search
May 29 17:23:58 <koen> unsurprisingly both are mozilla products
May 29 17:24:06 <Laibsch> jsheldon: You get a dependency tree with "bitbake -g $foo".  A file is then created which you apparently can parse with some tool. If you know how to actually do that sensibly, I'd be interested to learn that as well.
May 29 17:24:37 <koen> RP has a plan to make dependency rebuilding work as well
May 29 17:24:58 <Laibsch> koen: What is your complaint?  This also depends on the fact that our bugzilla setup (fields, etc.) is less than optimal.  I have been putting some thought into this recently and appreciate input.
May 29 17:25:37 <koen> Laibsch: I *know* there's a a comment with <foo> in it, but putting <foo> in the search box returns no results
May 29 17:25:53 <jsheldon> Laibsch: hmmm, I just tried "bitbake -g <mypackage>", which has some dependencies in DEPENDS, but it didn't list them in the results
May 29 17:25:58 <Laibsch> koen: Learn your tools before complaining
May 29 17:26:00 <Laibsch> ;-)
May 29 17:26:17 <koen> Laibsch: even when searching thru comments
May 29 17:26:24 <hvontres|home> koen: I found a shirt just for you: http://www.thinkgeek.com/tshirts/generic/810c/
May 29 17:26:33 <koen> I just grep my Maildir nowadays
May 29 17:26:36 <Laibsch> koen: Do you mean literally <foo> ?
May 29 17:26:41 <koen> no
May 29 17:27:01 <Laibsch> koen: Can you provde an example?
May 29 17:27:04 <koen> hvontres|home: I blame canada
May 29 17:27:34 * hvontres|home is still in shock knowing koen now gets paid for "customer support"
May 29 17:27:46 <Zero_Chaos> WHAT???
May 29 17:27:48 <Laibsch> jsheldon: bug RP about it.  Things can always be buggy
May 29 17:27:54 * Zero_Chaos faints in disbelief
May 29 17:27:59 <koen> customer support for police officers even
May 29 17:28:07 <Laibsch> jsheldon: If you can do the same with a public package, others can take a look
May 29 17:28:15 <jsheldon> Laibsch: I'm also using an older version of bitbake, maybe I'll try the latest
May 29 17:28:15 <hvontres|home> koen: well, at least they can defend themselves :)00
May 29 17:28:24 <Laibsch> jsheldon: Or just publish your package definition and I will take a look
May 29 17:28:37 <[cc]smart> is "http://www.angstrom-distribution.org/building-angstrom" still valid ?
May 29 17:28:52 <koen> it is
May 29 17:28:55 <[cc]smart> thx
May 29 17:29:47 <RP> jsheldon: WHich verison of bitbake?
May 29 17:30:00 <jsheldon> 1.6.6
May 29 17:30:05 <Laibsch> jsheldon: yes, I experienced some dependencies not being picked up when I was still using 1.6.x.  You really need 1.8.x and it will be required soon by policy
May 29 17:30:21 <jsheldon> ok I'll upgrade, thanks
May 29 17:30:24 <koen> only 33 days left :)
May 29 17:30:30 <Laibsch> wow
May 29 17:30:32 <Laibsch> that is like
May 29 17:30:33 <Laibsch> like
May 29 17:30:36 <Laibsch> hm
May 29 17:30:40 <Laibsch> almost tomorrow ;-)
May 29 17:30:49 <Laibsch> 33 days?  awfully long
May 29 17:30:56 * Laibsch knows that koen would agree
May 29 17:31:12 <RP> jsheldon: Use 1.8, 1.6 and -g are known to be broken
May 29 17:31:46 <jsheldon> RP: ok good to know, thanks
May 29 17:32:29 <Laibsch> koen: rsync <foo> -av angstrom@linuxtogo.org:/home/angstrom/website/unstable/feed/unsorted/
May 29 17:32:35 <Laibsch> still correct?
May 29 17:32:57 <[cc]smart> i remember there were issues on amd64 build platform. is this also still valid ?
May 29 17:33:13 <Laibsch> yes, look at the BTS
May 29 17:33:19 <[cc]smart> BTS ?
May 29 17:33:23 <Laibsch> a meta-bug in the 600 range
May 29 17:33:39 <Laibsch> bug tracking system
May 29 17:33:44 <Laibsch> ~bugs
May 29 17:33:45 <[cc]smart> k. thx.
May 29 17:33:52 <Laibsch> !BTS
May 29 17:34:40 <Laibsch> !oebug 641
May 29 17:34:42 <cdbot2> * * Bug 641, Status: NEW, Created: 2006-01-30 06:09
May 29 17:34:43 <cdbot2> * * shadow(AT)serverart.org: amd64 build host metabug
May 29 17:34:44 <cdbot2> * * http://bugs.openembedded.org/show_bug.cgi?id=641
May 29 17:41:57 <pht_> hi
May 29 17:42:23 <pht_> i'm trying to get angstrom running on zaurus 6000 (tosa)
May 29 17:43:38 <pht_> i was thinking that i try booting it off SD card, but the first issue is that i can't get altboot to boot it
May 29 17:44:22 <pht_> the last lines of its output are:
May 29 17:44:34 <pht_> Pivoting root...Illegal instruction
May 29 17:44:51 <pht_> then, Illegal instruction repeats a dozen more times
May 29 17:45:03 <pht_> then, it dies
May 29 17:45:09 <pht_> (apparently)
May 29 17:46:30 <pht_> any ideas to get me going?
May 29 17:46:59 <koen> sounds like a wrong kernel
May 29 17:50:03 <pht_> hm
May 29 17:51:24 <pht_> the kernel is from openzaurus
May 29 17:51:46 <pht_> 3.5.4.2-rc2
May 29 17:52:28 <pht_> it's a 2.6.17, so is the angstrom kernel, but i'll try to boot the angstrom one via altboot
May 29 17:55:50 <koen> you need an EABI capable kernel
May 29 17:56:12 <koen> there is only one distro that has one: angstrom :)
May 29 17:57:18 <pht_> so, in these error messages, root is pivoted okay, angstrom init launches and then dies with illegal instruction?
May 29 17:58:02 <koen> yes
May 29 18:14:03 <pht_> alright
May 29 18:14:23 <pht_> it looks like this kernel was compiled by you personally;)
May 29 18:20:41 <pht_> so,the next question is, i see 2.6.20 in the other zaurus images
May 29 18:20:55 <pht_> is there a plan to use 2.6.20 for tosa?
May 29 18:21:18 <koen> when someone updates the usb drivers and stuff
May 29 18:26:07 <pht_> what should be the next step to install GPE? (ie. what packages should i install?)
May 29 18:27:24 <koen> 'ipkg install angstrom-gpe-task-base' would be a good start
May 29 18:47:00 <pht_> it looks like the whole distribution is compiled by GCC4, does that imply that the build process is no longer dependant on qemu?
May 29 18:48:17 <koen> nope
May 29 18:48:31 <koen> qemu-native is still used to generate glibc locales
May 29 18:48:44 <koen> and qemu-native is built with the toolchain installed on your host
May 29 18:48:57 <koen> so e.g. 'apt-get install gcc-3.4' will fix that
May 29 18:50:46 <pht_> i'm not a debian user, but it basically means i have to get an extra copy of gcc, under the name /usr/bin/gcc-3.4
May 29 18:52:13 <koen> yes
May 29 18:53:22 <pht_> i guess it is safe to ignore the errors produced by ipkg, but just to know: http://rafb.net/p/c1ihB326.html
May 29 18:53:57 <jsheldon> where does angstrom's feed browser come from?
May 29 18:54:01 <jsheldon> it sure is pretty :)
May 29 18:54:09 <koen> jsheldon: hrw and I wrote it
May 29 18:54:16 <koen> it's in contrib/ in OE
May 29 18:54:34 <koen> pht_: hmmm, I wonder what pulls in the -dev stuff
May 29 18:54:52 <jsheldon> a-ha, very cool
May 29 18:55:29 <koen> jsheldon: http://www.openembedded.org/filebrowser/org.openembedded.dev/contrib/feed-browser
May 29 18:55:55 <jsheldon> koen: nice, thanks
May 29 18:58:12 <pht_> however, it looks like linux-libc-headers-dev v2.6.20-r6 are installed despite the kernel version is 2.6.17
May 29 19:00:36 <koen> pht_:  linux-libc-headers are fairly unrelated to kernel versions
May 29 19:02:06 <pht_> possibly
May 29 19:06:16 <pht_>     libgcc-s-dev 4.1.2-r4       depends on libc6-dev
May 29 19:06:16 <pht_>     libglib-2.0-dev 2.12.12-r0  depends on libgcc-s-dev
May 29 19:06:16 <pht_>     libmimedir-0.3-0 0.3.1-r2   depends on libglib-2.0-dev
May 29 19:10:56 <pht_> looks like angstrom-gpe-task-base did not install the x server itself
May 29 20:14:58 <summatusmentis> is anyone around?
May 29 20:15:05 <pht_> yes
May 29 20:15:21 <summatusmentis> pht_: are you having issues w/ usb host on spitz?
May 29 20:15:31 <summatusmentis> or rather, do you have spitz(or compat.)?
May 29 20:15:45 <pht_> i have a tosa
May 29 20:15:52 <summatusmentis> hrm
May 29 20:15:58 <summatusmentis> no usb host then?
May 29 20:16:13 <pht_> tosa has a usb host
May 29 20:16:26 <summatusmentis> oh, you learn something new everyday :-)
May 29 20:16:34 <summatusmentis> I can't get my usb stick to show up in /dev
May 29 20:16:36 <pht_> i can try to connect a flash drive if you wish
May 29 20:16:50 <summatusmentis> it's getting power, and the ohci-hcd module is loaded
May 29 20:18:01 <pht_> it seems to me that i don't have the scsi disk module loaded
May 29 20:18:11 <pht_> maybe that is your problem as well, what does dmesg say?
May 29 20:20:22 <summatusmentis> pht_: http://pastebin.ca/519961 and lsmod shows scsi_mod is loaded
May 29 20:20:48 <pht_> if i do a `modprobe sd_mod', the scsi disk shows in dmesg
May 29 20:20:57 <pht_> and consequently can be mounted
May 29 20:21:13 <pht_> well, scsi_mod is scsi core, sd_mod is disk support
May 29 20:22:05 <summatusmentis> pht_: fairly simple, thanks!
May 29 20:22:27 <pht_> np, thisalso applies to linux in general
May 29 20:23:29 <summatusmentis> yeah, I've got it built into my kernel on my laptop, so I don't deal w/ modules usual
May 29 20:23:39 <summatusmentis> usually*, so thus, I'm not familiar w/ the names
May 29 20:25:01 <pht_> yep, i had to look it up as well
May 29 20:25:09 <summatusmentis> lol, ok, thanks
May 29 20:25:38 <summatusmentis> Angstrom is relatively complete, I'm surprised
May 29 20:26:35 <pht_> i am using it but 3 hours
May 29 20:26:49 <summatusmentis> I've had it for a while
May 29 20:26:58 <summatusmentis> liking it better than OZ, mostly because of updated feeds
May 29 20:27:03 <pht_> seems it is a little bit rusty for tosa
May 29 20:27:32 <summatusmentis> I was under the impression that tosa was sort of rough around the edges in all distros
May 29 20:27:36 <pht_> but since the applications are about the same for all zauruses, it looks far superior to oz, yes
May 29 20:27:59 <pht_> well, i am under the impression that not many people have it
May 29 20:28:14 <summatusmentis> right, which would explain things
May 29 20:28:15 <pht_> and it is such agreat machine
May 29 20:28:41 <summatusmentis> I've thought about getting one, but they're expensive, and the only ones I've seen are w/out wifi/bluetooth(the reason I'd get one)
May 29 20:29:11 <pht_> actually i've been using sharp rom for a very long while, because, however old, it was working perfectly, unlike all the other roms :-/
May 29 20:29:23 <summatusmentis> yeah
May 29 20:30:22 <pht_> but angstrom sortof surprises me,
May 29 20:30:32 <pht_> even the battery meter looks correct
May 29 20:30:51 <summatusmentis> I like angstrom
May 29 20:31:24 <pht_> +1
May 29 20:31:57 <Crofton> I really need to try when of the display versions of angstrom on the OSK
May 29 20:32:32 <summatusmentis> what is OSK?
May 29 20:32:48 <Crofton> Omap Starter kit
May 29 20:32:50 <Crofton> ~osk
May 29 20:32:54 <Laibsch> summatusmentis: I cannot advise to get a tosa.  It is a MONSTER!
May 29 20:34:05 <pht_> heh
May 29 20:35:46 <pht_> you see, when i show off with it, people think it is some sort of prehistoric thing
May 29 20:36:15 <pht_> then i tell them about vga and usb host, then i open the keyboard
May 29 20:36:36 <pht_> and they change opinion
May 29 20:40:15 <summatusmentis> Laibsch: what do you mean monster? big?
May 29 20:44:03 <Laibsch> HUGE
May 29 20:44:31 <Laibsch> pht_: Well, they have also never seen any of the other options available
May 29 20:44:41 <Laibsch> I was absolutely not impressed
May 29 20:44:59 <pht_> back in 2003, there was no other option
May 29 20:45:53 <Laibsch> Well, of course 4 years ago it might have been a nice machine.  And it still is.  But IMHO it is too big.
May 29 20:46:41 <summatusmentis> Laibsch: what do you use?
May 29 20:46:44 <pht_> actually, i'm considering buying 3200, just for the portrait mode and 3.5" headphone plug.
May 29 20:46:53 <summatusmentis> 3200 ftw
May 29 20:47:27 <pht_> but i have set myself a condition that first i'll get everything working on the 6000, which hasn't been met yet
May 29 20:48:40 <pht_> and, it ain't that big, it's not even heavy; it's just robust, big display w/cover, metal casing
May 29 20:48:56 <Laibsch> summatusmentis: collie and spitz
May 29 20:49:08 <Laibsch> but those are old machines, too.
May 29 20:49:12 <pht_> i guess it was originally designed for heavy duty office/workshop use
May 29 20:49:18 * Laibsch hopes for some new hardware this year
May 29 20:50:26 <summatusmentis> pht_: I heavily recommend the 3200, it's an amazing machine(as you've likely seen w/ your tosa)
May 29 20:50:38 <summatusmentis> Laibsch: is tosa really that much bigger than collie?
May 29 20:52:13 <pht_> summatusmentis: can you recommend a wlan card for it?
May 29 20:52:44 <summatusmentis> pht_: I've only tried one, and it's decent, but not one I'd buy again
May 29 20:53:00 <summatusmentis> I've got the symbol spectrum24, and it's an orinoco chipset
May 29 20:53:14 <summatusmentis> I wish I had one of the prism chipsets, as they are better supported
May 29 20:53:15 <pht_> the nice thing about tosa is the integrated wlan
May 29 20:53:35 <summatusmentis> I'm looking at buying a SanDisk wifi/128Mb CF card
May 29 20:54:51 <pht_> and i actually fear that buying a decent CF card is next to impossible
May 29 20:55:14 <pht_> i already had to put a lot of effort into buying correct bluetooth cf
May 29 20:56:25 <summatusmentis> pht_: if you go 3200, there is also USB host, so some people use USB CF
May 29 20:56:28 <summatusmentis> USB Wifi*
May 29 20:56:37 <summatusmentis> but any prism chipset will work
May 29 20:57:18 <pht_> tosa also has usb host
May 29 20:57:29 <summatusmentis> pht_: http://cgi.ebay.com/New-Sandisk-128MB-WI-FI-COMPACT-FLASH-CF-Wireless-WIFI_W0QQitemZ190116971539QQihZ009QQcategoryZ44996QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
May 29 20:57:43 <summatusmentis> that's probably what I'm getting this summer, I need WAP
May 29 20:57:51 <summatusmentis> sorry, I need WPA capability
May 29 20:57:53 <pht_> but it is a pain in the ass to have something sticking out of the bottom of device
May 29 20:58:05 <summatusmentis> true
May 29 20:59:47 <summatusmentis> I love my 3200
May 29 20:59:53 <pht_> is there a way to use different hardware keyboard layouts?
May 29 20:59:58 <pht_> in angstrom/gpe
May 29 21:00:32 <pht_> like for typing in other languages
May 29 21:01:32 <summatusmentis> pht_: settings -> Keys and Buttons Setup -> Virtual Keyboard, but I'm not sure that's what you're looking for
May 29 21:01:41 <summatusmentis> otherwise, I think you need to edit the keymap
May 29 21:03:03 <pht_> normally this can be done via xkb
May 29 21:03:22 <summatusmentis> there might be an xkb for Z, check the feeds
May 29 21:09:32 <summatusmentis> is there a way to find out when a package was last updated?
May 29 21:09:39 <Laibsch> summatusmentis: I'd say the tosa is double in size, so 1.4X and 1.4Y
May 29 21:09:46 <Laibsch> summatusmentis: Package or bb?
May 29 21:09:47 <summatusmentis> mm
May 29 21:09:55 <summatusmentis> package, on the Z itself
May 29 21:10:08 <summatusmentis> downloaded a new version, and installed it
May 29 21:10:17 <Laibsch> summatusmentis: And I consider the collie big
May 29 21:10:25 <summatusmentis> the collie is big
May 29 21:10:37 <summatusmentis> the clamshells are fat though
May 29 21:10:41 <Laibsch> well, the devices only got bigger after the collie
May 29 21:11:41 <Laibsch> summatusmentis: What exactly do you want to know?  When it was built, uploaded, installed?
May 29 21:12:47 <summatusmentis> Laibsch: either uploaded or installed
May 29 21:13:12 <Laibsch> uploaded might be the date that the apache returns.
May 29 21:13:19 <Laibsch> Installed?  don't know
May 29 21:13:25 <summatusmentis> ok, thanks
May 29 21:13:28 <Laibsch> might be in the status file from ipkg
May 29 21:14:00 <summatusmentis> are you rolf? or is that someone else?
May 29 21:15:50 <Laibsch> summatusmentis: /usr/lib/ipkg/status has install time
May 29 21:15:59 <Laibsch> summatusmentis: yes, that is me
May 29 21:16:36 <Laibsch> if installtime is not set, then it was a package from the initial image it seems.
May 29 21:16:51 <summatusmentis> Laibsch: on bug 1436, pertaining to the fn key in firefox, upon further investigation, the shift key seems to work in place of
May 29 21:16:58 <summatusmentis> !oebug 1436
May 29 21:17:00 <cdbot2> * * Bug 1436, Status: NEW, Created: 2006-09-26 04:44
May 29 21:17:01 <cdbot2> * * ismiregal(AT)cwazy.net: firefox from oz3451: fn-key + X combinations not working
May 29 21:17:01 <cdbot2> * * http://bugs.openembedded.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1436
May 29 21:21:38 <Laibsch> summatusmentis: Please make your comments in the bug.  I have no real interest in the bug.  I just do bug triage.
May 29 21:21:58 <summatusmentis> ok, I noticed that you replied, that's all
May 29 21:26:46 <summatusmentis> hi mickeyl 
May 29 21:31:05 <pht_> how much ram does 3200 have?
May 29 21:31:51 <polyonymous> same as 3100, I think.
May 29 21:31:58 <pht_> 64?
May 29 21:31:58 <summatusmentis> 62484 according to free
May 29 21:32:14 <summatusmentis> but you've got a 6Gb HD, so swap space is abundant
May 29 21:32:18 <polyonymous> yup. the same like mine.
May 29 21:32:20 <pht_> so how do you run things like firefox?
May 29 21:32:39 <pht_> i tried swapping to sd, but that just kills the machine
May 29 21:32:47 <polyonymous> directly from swap, I think.
May 29 21:32:54 <polyonymous> to sd? Why not hd?
May 29 21:33:03 <summatusmentis> actually, if firefox is on it's own, it's not terribly bad
May 29 21:33:06 <pht_> no hd on 6000
May 29 21:33:08 <summatusmentis> he's on tosa right now
May 29 21:33:11 <polyonymous> ah
May 29 21:33:37 <summatusmentis> but there is minimo, which is a more mobile version of firefox, runs no problem
May 29 21:33:47 <pht_> does it ssl?
May 29 21:33:54 <summatusmentis> yep
May 29 21:34:17 <summatusmentis> logging into gmail works fine, as do some other sites
May 29 21:34:23 <summatusmentis> I don't ssl too much anyway
May 29 21:34:25 <summatusmentis> but yes
May 29 21:35:02 <polyonymous> ssl isn't supposed to be done much :)
May 29 21:35:42 <pht_> hm, i know what
May 29 21:36:03 <pht_> for some reason minimo does not want to input digits (actually fn+anything) from the hw keyboard
May 29 21:36:13 <summatusmentis> try shift
May 29 21:36:30 <pht_> that should produce capital letters..
May 29 21:36:32 <summatusmentis> !oebug 1436
May 29 21:36:34 <cdbot2> * * Bug 1436, Status: NEW, Created: 2006-09-26 04:44
May 29 21:36:35 <cdbot2> * * ismiregal(AT)cwazy.net: firefox from oz3451: fn-key + X combinations not working
May 29 21:36:36 <cdbot2> * * http://bugs.openembedded.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1436
May 29 21:36:41 <summatusmentis> !oebug 2326
May 29 21:36:42 <cdbot2> * * Bug 2326, Status: NEW, Created: 2007-05-15 20:46
May 29 21:36:42 <cdbot2> * * xjqian(AT)gmail.com: minimo not aware of Fn key
May 29 21:36:43 <cdbot2> * * http://bugs.openembedded.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2326
May 29 21:36:51 <polyonymous> summatusmentis, do you remember all bug numbers? :)
May 29 21:36:54 <summatusmentis> pht_: oh, I guess I didn't realize it was above a letter
May 29 21:37:05 <pht_> thats it
May 29 21:37:06 <summatusmentis> polyonymous: nope, only the ones I care about enough to pay attention to
May 29 21:37:15 <polyonymous> ah ok :) I was scared :)
May 29 21:37:23 <pht_> everything is above a letter on the 6000 ;)
May 29 21:37:41 <summatusmentis> pht_: yeah, I guess it would be, I forgot about that
May 29 21:38:01 <summatusmentis> it's known bug(s), so I'm not sure how to fix it
May 29 21:38:21 <summatusmentis> polyonymous: if I had any kind of coding skill, I'd fix it and move on, but for now, I just watch it :-P
May 29 21:38:41 <pht_> actually i have some
May 29 21:38:52 <summatusmentis> pht_: GO GO GO!!!!
May 29 21:38:59 <polyonymous> Don't look at me like this, I'm mostly torturing opie right now :)
May 29 21:39:05 <summatusmentis> I think it's just a keymap interpretation issue
May 29 21:39:10 <polyonymous> Yes, eye pht instead :)
May 29 21:39:38 <summatusmentis> lol, no, I'm just saying, not hinting at anything :-P
May 29 21:40:14 <polyonymous> "just saying" "GO GO GO!!!!" :))
May 29 21:40:14 <summatusmentis> polyonymous: is opie close?
May 29 21:40:17 <pht_> not today
May 29 21:40:20 <polyonymous> summatusmentis, close to what?
May 29 21:40:25 <polyonymous> I'm using it.
May 29 21:40:40 <summatusmentis> close to 'production' level
May 29 21:40:44 <polyonymous> even with kdepimpi
May 29 21:40:47 <summatusmentis> I don't know how else to describe it
May 29 21:40:59 <polyonymous> well, for my needs closer than x11
May 29 21:41:11 <summatusmentis> mm
May 29 21:41:30 <summatusmentis> I wish there were a way to run opie on x11, like kde
May 29 21:41:32 <polyonymous> my needs are kdepim+opie-reader+opie-console and shell-stuff.
May 29 21:41:36 <pht_> i see lyx in the feeds, but no tex
May 29 21:41:57 <summatusmentis> polyonymous: yeah, sounds like opie would fit that
May 29 21:42:25 <polyonymous> summatusmentis, that is about all I need. If I have ssh and vim I don't need much more :)
May 29 21:42:36 <summatusmentis> polyonymous: lol
May 29 21:42:52 <summatusmentis> pht_: if you really need tex, check out www.openembedded.org/wiki/GettingStarted
May 29 21:43:05 <summatusmentis> it'll setup the cross-compile env for the Z
May 29 21:43:28 <pht_> $ ls /opt/oe
May 29 21:43:28 <pht_> OE.mtn  conf  environ   linux-2.6.17  mt                       tmp
May 29 21:43:28 <pht_> bb      dl    environ~  local.conf    org.openembedded.oz354x  x
May 29 21:43:35 <pht_> wha?
May 29 21:43:54 <polyonymous> are you building from oz branch?
May 29 21:44:03 <summatusmentis> pht_: yeah, that looks like it, but an old version
May 29 21:44:08 <pht_> no, that was history
May 29 21:44:30 <pht_> i tried to do something about the usb driver
May 29 21:45:05 <pht_> i might try again with angstrom
May 29 21:45:11 <summatusmentis> mm... yeah, I'd scrap that, start over, and use the .dev branch
May 29 21:45:34 * summatusmentis is building php right now
May 29 21:45:45 <pht_> iirc the thing was, that the cross compiler chain relied on qemu and i was too lazy to install gcc v. 3
May 29 21:46:05 <summatusmentis> not necessarily, there is a way around that
May 29 21:46:16 <polyonymous> summatusmentis, what is the way around that on amd64?
May 29 21:46:29 <summatusmentis> idk about amd64, but hold on
May 29 21:46:32 <pht_> yes, what is the way?
May 29 21:46:40 <pht_> on x64? ;P
May 29 21:46:53 <polyonymous> there's a patch on bugzilla, but I think it doesn't help with 64
May 29 21:47:37 <summatusmentis> polyonymous: ENABLE_BINARY_LOCALE_GENERATION = "0" fixed it for me on x86
May 29 21:47:47 <polyonymous> summatusmentis, that's what I have...
May 29 21:47:49 <pht_> hmm
May 29 21:48:15 <polyonymous> not exactly the answer I'd love to hear :)
May 29 21:48:35 <pht_> by the way, why not compile everything in qemu then?
May 29 21:48:52 <polyonymous> compile _in_ qemu??
May 29 21:49:03 <polyonymous> That doesn't sound like a great speedup to me :)
May 29 21:49:19 <pht_> no, but you could do everything as a native compile
May 29 21:49:23 <summatusmentis> otherwise there's ASSUME_PROVIDED+="qemu-native"(which will use the qemu installed on your system)
May 29 21:49:32 <pht_> i recall that every other package croaks if cross compiled
May 29 21:50:40 <polyonymous> pht_, that's what brought oe tree into existance.
May 29 21:51:05 <pht_> yeah, packages get patched so that they cross-compile
May 29 21:51:47 <pht_> with native build, no patches
May 29 21:52:06 <pht_> it'll get slower, sure, that's the price to pay
May 29 21:52:54 <polyonymous> I think that would be even more troublesome. even binary locale generation is a headache.
May 29 21:53:22 <pht_> hm
May 29 22:04:17 <rogelio> Hi. Building angstrom-minimal-image for h5000 fails with:
May 29 22:04:19 <rogelio> | + ipkg-make-index -r /mnt/mythtv/rogelio/OE/build/tmp/angstrom/deploy/glibc/ipk/all/Packages -p /mnt/mythtv/rogelio/OE/build/tmp/angstrom/deploy/glibc/ipk/all/Packages -l /mnt/mythtv/rogelio/OE/build/tmp/angstrom/deploy/glibc/ipk/all/Packages.filelist -m /mnt/mythtv/rogelio/OE/build/tmp/angstrom/deploy/glibc/ipk/all/
May 29 22:04:19 <rogelio> | Traceback (most recent call last):
May 29 22:04:19 <rogelio> |   File "/mnt/mythtv/rogelio/OE/build/tmp/angstrom/staging/i686-linux/bin/ipkg-make-index", line 114, in ?
May 29 22:04:19 <rogelio> |     pkg = ipkg.Package(filename)
May 29 22:04:21 <rogelio> |   File "/mnt/mythtv/rogelio/OE/build/tmp/angstrom/staging/i686-linux/bin/ipkg.py", line 162, in __init__
May 29 22:04:24 <rogelio> |     control = tarf.extractfile("./control")
May 29 22:04:26 <rogelio> |   File "/usr/lib/python2.4/tarfile.py", line 1364, in extractfile
May 29 22:04:28 <rogelio> |     tarinfo = self.getmember(member)
May 29 22:04:30 <rogelio> |   File "/usr/lib/python2.4/tarfile.py", line 1050, in getmember
May 29 22:04:32 <rogelio> |     raise KeyError, "filename %r not found" % name
May 29 22:04:36 <rogelio> | KeyError: "filename './control' not found"
May 29 22:04:38 <rogelio> NOTE: Task failed: /mnt/mythtv/rogelio/OE/build/tmp/angstrom/work/h5000-angstrom-linux-gnueabi/angstrom-minimal-image-1.0-r0/temp/log.do_rootfs.27759
May 29 22:04:41 <rogelio> any idea?
May 29 22:05:13 * Zero_Chaos has an idea, don't flood the channel
May 29 22:05:42 <Laibsch> !pastebin
May 29 22:05:53 <Laibsch> ~pastebin
May 29 22:06:13 <pht_> night
May 29 22:06:18 <Zero_Chaos> pastebin: rafb.net/paste
May 29 22:06:23 <Zero_Chaos> ~emulate stewie
May 29 22:07:18 <rogelio> :-S sorry for that
May 29 22:17:26 <summatusmentis> how does the decision as to which packages get put in the feed get made?
May 29 22:19:17 <polyonymous> rogelio, pull
May 29 22:21:37 <rogelio> polyonymous: thanks, I've already done it. It looks I pulled just before the fix was there :-) It is working now.
May 29 22:22:25 <CoreDump|home> hi
May 29 22:22:47 <summatusmentis> hi CoreDump|home 
May 29 22:31:08 <hvontres|home> Hey CoreDump|home :) Did you get a chance to play with the menu yet?
May 29 22:31:20 <CoreDump|home> hvontres|home: nope sorry
May 29 22:31:31 <CoreDump|home> will do so tomorrow hopefully
May 29 22:31:54 <hvontres|home> CoreDump|home: np. I'll try to bang together a .bb file for it sometime this week...
May 29 22:32:47 <hvontres|home> CoreDump|home: do you think a altboot.inc file might be a good idea? it seems we have quite a few recepies floating around now..
May 29 22:33:09 <CoreDump|home> that would be most welcome. If it is useable, it should be uploaded into the OZ feeds
May 29 22:33:16 <CoreDump|home> hvontres|home: sounds like a good idea
May 29 23:27:00 <rogelio> Hi, I built angstrom-x11-image for the h5000 with the 2.6.21-hh5 kernel ant it panics. Bootlog in http://rafb.net/p/m7BGPY20.html . Help is apreciated.
May 29 23:36:43 <rogelio> should I file a bug?
May 29 23:38:12 <summatusmentis> I would
May 29 23:50:45 <rogelio> OK. Before filing the bug... is it correct to set the kernel version I want in my images as this:
May 29 23:50:48 <rogelio> PREFERRED_VERSION_linux-handhelds-2.6_h5000 ?= "2.6.21-hh5"
May 29 23:51:00 <rogelio> is that all?
May 29 23:51:39 <summatusmentis> I guess.... I'm not that great at filing bugs yet, and I'm at a loss as to what would cause your kernel panic
May 29 23:53:58 <rogelio> OK. thanks, summatusmentis
May 29 23:54:39 <summatusmentis> sure thing rogelio 
May 30 00:09:08 <rwhitby> CoreDump|home: how goes altboot working with angstrom on the nslu2?
May 30 00:09:28 <CoreDump|home> I don't run angstrom on the slug
May 30 00:09:32 <CoreDump|home> do you??
May 30 00:10:04 <rwhitby> yeah, the mokoslug distro is a cut-down angstrom for 8MB flash
May 30 00:10:26 <rwhitby> it's just waiting for altboot support, and then it can displace slugos
May 30 00:10:36 <rwhitby> (eventually)
May 30 00:10:51 * CoreDump|home had no idea
May 30 00:12:38 <rwhitby> mokoslug is angstrom based on task-boot instead of task-base, and cutting out the DEBUG_APPS and kernel image from the rootfs
May 30 00:13:45 <rwhitby> which reminds me, I should try building mokoslug again now, since hrw fixed the task-boot provides
May 30 00:14:23 <CoreDump|home> I guess I'll have to build mokoslug soonish then ;)
May 30 01:44:11 <rwhitby> CoreDump|afk: mokoslug just built fine for me
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Wed May 30 02:59:57 2007