**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Jan 18 02:59:56 2010
Jan 18 03:00:21 <calc84maniac> well, the Nspire OS has fopen, fwrite, etc routines that we've found
Jan 18 03:00:56 <Jonimus> yes but you won't have those at your disposal if your running without a kernel
Jan 18 03:01:07 <calc84maniac> yeah
Jan 18 03:01:11 <Jonimus> since you are the kernel you have to provide those
Jan 18 03:01:34 <calc84maniac> of course, we wouldn't want to destroy the filesystem already there... :\
Jan 18 03:01:45 <Jonimus> I think you have no choice in that
Jan 18 03:02:12 <calc84maniac> I'm pretty darn sure that with this hack, the TI-Nspire kernel is loaded at the same time
Jan 18 03:02:39 <Jonimus> unless the nspires fs is supported by the kernel, there is no way to keep both
Jan 18 03:02:43 <calc84maniac> of course, that RAM can be overwritten or ignored - but it's still there
Jan 18 03:05:52 <calc84maniac> I was hoping there could be some sort of dual-boot system
Jan 18 03:06:15 <calc84maniac> especially since any changes we make to the actual TI-Nspire kernel will probably be rejected due to invalidation
Jan 18 03:06:52 <calc84maniac> currently the executables are loaded from a normal .TNS document file
Jan 18 03:09:32 <calc84maniac> hmm, according to Goplat
Jan 18 03:09:34 <calc84maniac> "it's Datalight Reliance"
Jan 18 03:09:43 <calc84maniac> "it's a proprietary filesystem, and has patents on it so you can't make your own implemention of it"
Jan 18 03:10:21 <Jonimus> ahh so we'd need to whipe everything for linux to work
Jan 18 03:10:27 <Jonimus> or boot off of USB somehow
Jan 18 03:10:49 <calc84maniac> hahh, right
Jan 18 03:10:50 <calc84maniac> :P
Jan 18 03:11:00 <calc84maniac> like we know anything about the USB on this thing
Jan 18 03:11:53 <calc84maniac> unless
Jan 18 03:12:06 <Jonimus> so yeah unless we somehow get a USB driver we're screwed
Jan 18 03:12:13 <calc84maniac> does Angstrom have a bunch of USB drivers?
Jan 18 03:12:20 <Jonimus> the kernel does yes
Jan 18 03:12:22 <calc84maniac> since TI might have gone with a common implementation
Jan 18 03:12:44 <Jonimus> calc84maniac: its all about the kernel, one we have that angstrom can handle the userspace
Jan 18 03:13:11 <Jonimus> calc84maniac: well there is a good chance its a custom asic so its most likely custom
Jan 18 03:13:35 <calc84maniac> well, the LCD driver is pretty common though
Jan 18 03:13:59 <Jonimus> wait we have a rs232 port, that could mean a serial consol, woo
Jan 18 03:14:54 <Jonimus> with that we could do real debugging even if the kernel doesn't like the LCD at first
Jan 18 03:15:56 <calc84maniac> yeah
Jan 18 03:16:04 <calc84maniac> too bad I don't have hardware to work with that :(
Jan 18 03:16:12 <calc84maniac> I'm sure some of the other devs do though
Jan 18 03:16:35 <Jonimus> I have the hardware but no Nspire or kernel hacking experince
Jan 18 03:16:52 <calc84maniac> oh, and in Goplat's emulator it prints rs232 stuff to the console
Jan 18 03:17:09 <Jonimus> heh nice
Jan 18 03:17:32 <Jonimus> well you could try building a kernel with support for the LCD and such and see what happens
Jan 18 03:18:48 <calc84maniac> meh, I feel too n00by
Jan 18 03:19:49 <calc84maniac> do you know if that driver supports a bit-depth of 4?
Jan 18 03:20:03 <calc84maniac> cause I see problems otherwise
Jan 18 03:20:06 <Jonimus> not a clue
Jan 18 03:20:20 <calc84maniac> well, technically I could switch to 8-bit and waste space
Jan 18 03:20:32 <calc84maniac> but I'm sure Goplat's emulator doesn't support that anyway
Jan 18 03:20:36 <Jonimus> I'm not even sure if its in the mainline kernel or if it requires patching
Jan 18 03:22:15 <Jonimus> hmm and its only a 90Mhz cpu even my old iPaq h2200 which runs angstrom kicks its but big time
Jan 18 03:25:03 <calc84maniac> it's a heckuva lot faster than the other TI calcs
Jan 18 03:26:24 <Jonimus> well duh but are we attempting to hav support for X or just a text console with a chance of games using a framebuffer
Jan 18 03:30:56 <calc84maniac> X?
Jan 18 03:31:55 <calc84maniac> and I was hoping Linux would make it easier to port software
Jan 18 03:32:31 <Jonimus> yes that would be true, X11/Xserver/Xorg is how linux gets pretty windows and graphics
Jan 18 03:33:08 <calc84maniac> oh, and apparently there's this thing called a "RAM disk"?
Jan 18 03:33:18 <calc84maniac> it's like a virtual disk in RAM?
Jan 18 03:33:44 <calc84maniac> that sounds like it could more easily work
Jan 18 03:35:07 <Jonimus> we'd still need support for the nspires fs to load the ramdisk, unless we used a bootloader of some sort
Jan 18 03:35:16 <calc84maniac> http://www.datalight.com/resources/bootstrapping-linux-from-nand-flash-27-august-2008-
Jan 18 03:36:43 <calc84maniac> this seems to be VERY relevant
Jan 18 03:38:51 <Jonimus> yes but we still need support for the FS so unless you buy a license thats not gonna work
Jan 18 03:39:42 <calc84maniac> how much support do we need?
Jan 18 03:40:57 <Jonimus> oh wait it appears the SDK has code for read only support so if their SDK is free we may be able to use a basic ramdisk from the nand but we would still need our main fs stored elsewhere
Jan 18 03:42:11 <Jonimus> we'd definately need to use a busybox setup on it for many things
Jan 18 03:42:29 <calc84maniac> gah, I am so linux-illiterate :P
Jan 18 03:42:33 <Jonimus> 'lol
Jan 18 03:43:04 <Jonimus> ok busybox is a minimal userland setup that provides the basic linux enviornment ins a small space
Jan 18 03:43:16 <Jonimus> its used on routers and other embedded devices
Jan 18 03:44:39 <calc84maniac> I still wonder how feasable it would be to make calls to the fread and fwrite routines in the Nspire kernel
Jan 18 03:44:40 <Jonimus> that pdf could help use get the kernel booted but from there we're still stuck with nowhere to store our rootfs
Jan 18 03:45:00 <Jonimus> calc84maniac: two kernels running at once is a bad idea
Jan 18 03:45:07 <Jonimus> and I doubt it would work
Jan 18 03:45:25 <calc84maniac> copy the code from the Nspire kernel at runtime? I dunno
Jan 18 03:45:43 <Jonimus> yeah not feasable
Jan 18 03:45:49 <Jonimus> or leagal I'm sure
Jan 18 03:46:28 <calc84maniac> but the code is right there O_o
Jan 18 03:46:57 <Jonimus> yeah but you'd have to wrap it is a very ugly way to get the kernel to be happy
Jan 18 03:47:47 <calc84maniac> I do know one thing - destroying the filesystem will probably make the boot1 very unhappy
Jan 18 03:48:00 <calc84maniac> or boot2, whatever works :P
Jan 18 03:48:47 <calc84maniac> and there is no way we are replacing those
Jan 18 03:56:07 <Jonimus> so we'd need to boot from USB as I've said
Jan 18 03:58:33 <calc84maniac> blargh :P
Jan 18 03:59:27 <Jonimus> its really our only option as the thing does not have a SD card slot or anything
Jan 18 04:00:17 <calc84maniac> maybe it's hiding
Jan 18 04:00:20 <calc84maniac> :P
Jan 18 04:00:52 <Jonimus> well that would be better than USB but its either the flash rom or USB at this point
Jan 18 04:01:13 <calc84maniac> maybe...
Jan 18 04:01:23 <calc84maniac> um
Jan 18 04:01:25 <calc84maniac> hmm
Jan 18 04:01:57 <calc84maniac> would it be possible to have a filesystem in RAM?
Jan 18 04:01:58 <Jonimus> unless we can find a way to partition the flash rom, then maybe it'd work but thats still pushing it
Jan 18 04:02:19 <Jonimus> hmm maybe but 32MB isn't much to workwith but it could be done
Jan 18 04:02:29 <calc84maniac> there is only 32MB flash also
Jan 18 04:02:34 <Jonimus> and thats about all we'd have
Jan 18 04:02:55 <Jonimus> yeah but we need ram to run anything remember
Jan 18 04:07:08 <calc84maniac> well, I think read-only support might be enough to start with, maybe
Jan 18 04:07:43 <Jonimus> nope, as thats only to load the ramdisk after that we have nothing
Jan 18 04:08:38 <calc84maniac> you can't read other files? O_o
Jan 18 04:10:45 <Jonimus> No the bootloader described in that PDF would only be used to load the kernel and the initial ramdisk after that you the kernel had control and it knows nothing about the filesystem
Jan 18 04:11:06 <calc84maniac> :O
Jan 18 04:12:23 <calc84maniac> maybe I could try to port Python to the Nspire OS :P
Jan 18 04:13:39 <Jonimus> lol
Jan 18 04:14:01 <calc84maniac> that would probably be faster than porting Linux :P
Jan 18 04:14:24 <calc84maniac> of course, I would have to figure out how to write my own console
Jan 18 04:15:16 <Jonimus> calc84maniac: and I doubt it would fit to well
Jan 18 04:15:24 <Jonimus> maybe though
Jan 18 04:15:46 <calc84maniac> well come on, how OS-dependent could Python be?
Jan 18 04:15:56 <Jonimus> very include os
Jan 18 04:16:09 <Jonimus> you'd need to port that python module
Jan 18 04:16:25 <Jonimus> though after that I think you'd be good
Jan 18 04:17:27 <calc84maniac> I really want to be the one to port it :D
Jan 18 04:17:42 <Jonimus> well then go ahead if you can manage it
Jan 18 04:17:59 <calc84maniac> half for the prize monies :P
Jan 18 04:18:17 <calc84maniac> half for the awesomeness of Python
Jan 18 04:18:39 <calc84maniac> hopefully I'll be able to port the antigravity module
Jan 18 04:18:47 <Jonimus> next you'll be wanting to port perl
Jan 18 04:19:43 <calc84maniac> pshhh
Jan 18 04:25:28 <calc84maniac> gah this stuff gives me a headache >_<
Jan 18 10:53:10 <m1oluf> is there anyone who can tell me why i cannot boot my h3900 with angstrom?
Jan 18 13:29:40 <m1oluf> is there anyone who can tell me why i cannot boot my h3900 with angstrom?
Jan 18 22:21:47 <Differentkindof> Good afternoon everyone
Jan 18 22:22:55 <Differentkindof> I have a question maybe
Jan 18 22:23:23 <Differentkindof> Is there a way I can be sure a source code is truly architecture independent
Jan 19 01:09:59 <hunternet93> I've been looking at ebay for a cheap computer to use in a robot, and I found this: http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-7-Mini-Netbook-Laptop-Notebook-WIFI-Windows-2GB-HD_W0QQitemZ180458022222QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLaptops_Nov05?hash=item2a0422e54e I know its some Chinese mass-produced off-brand crud, but if I can get console angstrom running with USB, it would be perfect. Anyone know anything about these?
Jan 19 01:15:53 <hunternet93> Anyone even want to guess if angstrom would run? The specs say the processor is a "VIA ARM 32bit CPU".
Jan 19 01:25:57 <hunternet93> Hmm... probably not a good idea....
Jan 19 01:26:18 <hunternet93> Is anyone even really here or is everyone afk???
Jan 19 01:26:57 <Jonimus> hunternet93: idle maor
Jan 19 01:32:53 <hunternet93> ah
Jan 19 01:33:08 <hunternet93> well i'll look around... bye
Jan 19 02:56:53 <edsiper> hi Guys, i'm looking for commercial support, does any one of you provide the service ?, if so, please send me a private message
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue Jan 19 02:59:57 2010