**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Oct 08 02:59:59 2012 Oct 08 06:43:15 #j pandaboard Oct 08 06:49:32 hm...derp Oct 08 07:57:39 hm, has anyone an idea, why the zippy uses 74AVC4T774 level converters, which have manual direction setup instead of ones that have auto-direction-sensing? Was it to reduce costs or is there any "real" reason for those? Oct 08 07:57:47 zippy2 it is Oct 08 08:04:23 some direction pins are not hardwired Oct 08 08:07:35 -.- Oct 08 08:08:15 http://ragefac.es/434 Oct 08 08:11:29 what speaks against autosensing? Oct 08 08:22:13 probably nothing... besides maybe signal coherence if we are talking about more tahn one pin and high speeds at the same time. Oct 08 08:25:20 hm, well we have multiple pins on SDcards Oct 08 08:26:22 oh that reminds me Oct 08 08:26:58 av500: "look at the zippy2 setup" he said. "Just try doing the same" he said. Zippy2 Wiki says: "if youre using angstrom, it will just work" Oct 08 08:28:05 Phrewfuf|work: depending on the level shifter some mhz speed to the sd card should be possible with autosensing, but if you know the directions beforehand, want to be as fast as possible and not take any risks, take fixed-direction ones. Oct 08 08:29:36 LetoThe2nd: ^hm, i'm thinking of something here...the panda doesn't use level shifters, as far as i see from the schematics Oct 08 08:30:15 Phrewfuf|work: for the sd card? Oct 08 08:30:20 yeah Oct 08 08:30:35 they have some 33ohm resistors and those ESD-Protection chips Oct 08 08:31:02 Phrewfuf|work: i don't have schematic here ATM (and no time to look it up), but id' suggest to verify that by looking up the i/o pins specs. Oct 08 08:31:19 i bet the esd-chips also act as level converters in somewhat fancy way Oct 08 08:31:36 Phrewfuf|work: maybe. there should be datasheets available Oct 08 08:46:05 LetoThe2nd: OMAP4430 TRM says: The MMC/SD/SDIO1 controller integrates an internal transceiver that allows a direct connection to the MMC/SD/SDIO card (1.8 V and 3 V), Oct 08 08:46:30 also: MMC/SD/SDIO2 controller allows connecting MMC/SD/SDIO cards (only 1.8V cards) Oct 08 08:46:44 that explains a lot here Oct 08 08:46:53 Phrewfuf|work: well then it probably incorporates some level shifting magic, or is at least 3.3V in tolerant. Oct 08 08:47:10 Phrewfuf|work: well we always recommend checking the TRM for a reason... Oct 08 08:47:11 yeah...but only controller 1 Oct 08 08:47:41 controller 2 seems to be a voltage nazi there :D Oct 08 08:48:22 or put the other way round, controller 2 is perfectly normal, just controller 1 has added functionality. Oct 08 08:48:54 (which sounds perfectly sane given the fact that the vast majority of devices just has one sd card slot.) Oct 08 08:55:21 aah, now i see Oct 08 08:55:59 the direction pins are needed, when using an external transceiver (level shifter) Oct 08 08:56:11 the whole thing runs in 4bit mode then Oct 08 08:56:50 bit 0:3 are data, 4:6 are dircontrol and 7 is for clock verification Oct 08 08:58:30 i will just say that the omap can't use 3.3v cards on controller 2 without some addition control magic Oct 08 09:04:27 sounds reasonable. Oct 08 09:11:36 no surprise here Oct 08 09:16:24 av500: seriously dude, if you wann to help, great, but do it. If you want to act cool, because you know stuff that others don't, go to quakenet Oct 08 09:18:17 usually i like people who know stuff, because i know that i could learn from them, which would be awesome Oct 08 09:18:40 but pointing out obvious things and making comments like that makes you appear like a showoff Oct 08 09:20:12 I told you friday that port1 is 3.3V and all others are 1.8V Oct 08 09:20:53 actually you said, everything is 1.8v and i joked about USB not being 1.8v Oct 08 09:20:53 but fair enough, I'll stop telling you things Oct 08 09:31:21 ah, are we there again? great. Oct 08 10:30:44 LetoThe2nd: sadly, yes. But it seems to be a normal thing for people with knowledge. Oct 08 10:31:42 one would think, since they know how hard it is to learn how a device works, then they would help other people Oct 08 10:31:57 * LetoThe2nd should better not elaborate. Oct 08 10:33:28 but instead most of them, not all, just want to show how cool they are because they know shit Oct 08 10:34:11 * LetoThe2nd also thinks that Phrewfuf|work should better stop now. Oct 08 10:38:25 LetoThe2nd: if it only would change anything Oct 08 10:39:34 Phrewfuf|work: no, you will just go on and on :) Oct 08 10:39:54 heh Oct 08 10:40:30 hey, i like to believe that people may rethink their actions and start acting like people instead of like magicians with secret knowledge :D Oct 08 10:41:14 and on and on and on... Oct 08 10:43:11 hello Oct 08 10:44:01 I have a question!! anyone who can help me Oct 08 10:44:14 ask Oct 08 10:44:27 * av500 hopes that was not too snarky ... Oct 08 10:44:53 av500: maybe add some cream on top in the future? Oct 08 10:45:34 I have a problem with the image of Angstrom Linux Oct 08 10:45:57 When I boot shows the following: Failed to Load Kernel Modules star See "systemctl status-modules-load.service system" for details ------------- [FAILED] (...) Failed to start Recreate Volatile Files and Directories See "systemctl status-modules-load.service system" for details ------------- [FAILED] And the system is never initiated. Any idea? Oct 08 10:46:31 has it ever booted properly? Oct 08 10:46:49 La imagen me la he creado y descargado de esta web: http://dominion.thruhere.net/koen/narcissus/ Oct 08 10:47:27 * mdp peers in at the show-off channel Oct 08 10:47:51 I've created, but does not start, it stays at that point Oct 08 10:48:49 The image I have created it and downloaded from this website: http://dominion.thruhere.net/koen/narcissus/ Oct 08 10:49:34 You know if that site has an error when creating the images? Oct 08 10:55:26 ?¿ Oct 08 10:56:56 pastebin a full boot log Oct 08 13:02:30 how can I take advantage of the accelerated openssl lib from the TI sdk 5.05? Oct 08 13:04:02 I compiled openssh using some parameter adding --with-ssl-engine and the --with-ssl-dir but when I run the ssh binary I get this message: Corrupted MAC on input. Oct 08 13:07:16 best to ask about the TI SDK on e2e Oct 08 13:07:34 accelerated how? Oct 08 13:07:44 using the crypto stuff? Oct 08 13:08:50 "accelerated" Oct 08 13:09:13 I think benchmarks showed it not to be 10 times slower than using the cpu Oct 08 13:09:25 that's what I remember from it Oct 08 13:09:40 but as mdp said: that stuff is only supported on e2e Oct 08 13:10:11 koen: yes, but it frees the CPU to do 1/10th other things :) Oct 08 13:11:13 I'd rather use the in-kernel crypto and tunnels Oct 08 13:11:26 that way the packets don't go in and out userspace a dozen times Oct 08 13:11:48 and there's in-kernel support for the crypto engines as well on omap3 Oct 08 13:12:13 thats what I meant Oct 08 13:12:24 * av500 had that under hush hush terms since ages Oct 08 13:12:41 what f11f12 is talking about is the *userspace* version of the crypto support Oct 08 13:12:58 which involves patching in a bunch of bsd interfaces into the kernel Oct 08 13:13:05 and patching openssh/l Oct 08 13:13:37 again, -> e2e Oct 08 13:14:21 wait, the sdk kernel should support acceleration, right? Oct 08 13:14:51 the poor performance is on small block sizes...which is true regardless of implementation, fwiw Oct 08 13:15:00 will openssh use this acceleration? Oct 08 13:39:03 on my beaglebone I have a /dev/crypto and openssl makes use of it when I run openssl speed -evp aes-128-cbc (compared to running it without -evp) Oct 08 13:40:45 it's always nice to hear back from a distributor that they're going to have to write a custom driver for us because the existing drivers won't work on our system, and they can't give us any info to help us write our own driver.... after we've already figured out how to get the device working on our system :P Oct 08 13:40:47 I can compile openssh (which uses openssl) so I assume it also uses the /dev/crypto device Oct 08 13:44:22 thurbad, sounds like great people to do business with ;) Oct 08 13:44:33 ... yeah Oct 08 14:57:58 koen, denix, _chase_: I *finally* sent you a draft Oct 08 15:00:19 koen, denix, _chase_: I *finally* sent you a draft Oct 08 15:02:47 koen: I'm having an issue building node Oct 08 15:20:25 http://paste.ubuntu.com/1267563/ Oct 08 15:22:21 jkridner: try -c cleansstate Oct 08 15:22:26 on nodejs Oct 08 15:23:10 ERROR: Task do_cleanstate does not exist for target nodejs Oct 08 15:23:55 there's 2x s in there Oct 08 15:24:23 ah... shared state Oct 08 15:24:24 jkridner: the draft looks quite OK Oct 08 15:30:09 oh wow, linkedin endorsement game has reached me Oct 08 15:30:13 is it like farmville? Oct 08 15:30:39 Does Koen Kooi know about Embedded Systems? Oct 08 15:30:41 lol Oct 08 15:30:47 why is there no "NO" button????? Oct 08 15:31:14 I want to click "He knows shite" Oct 08 15:31:20 hehe Oct 08 15:33:22 av500: "and talks shite too" Oct 08 15:33:28 yeah Oct 08 15:33:31 yeah Oct 08 15:33:32 hack that into his skillz Oct 08 15:33:43 av500: ah man Oct 08 15:33:50 av500: just got a linkedin email Oct 08 15:34:11 prpplague: I just endorsed you Oct 08 15:34:14 for binge drinking Oct 08 15:34:17 hehe Oct 08 15:34:28 aka embedded devices Oct 08 15:35:13 koen: as soon as denix gives an OK, I'll send it Oct 08 15:39:21 I'm getting the same errors on nodejs Oct 08 16:43:30 av500: was it named Sales or Marketing? Oct 08 16:43:46 quoi? Oct 08 16:43:52 her name was Sally Oct 08 16:43:57 oops Oct 08 16:52:23 * mdp finishes a round of endorsement binging Oct 08 16:52:26 *whew* Oct 08 16:54:05 :) Oct 08 16:54:13 Linkedin is getting silly Oct 08 16:54:18 mdp: I hope you endorsed me big time! Oct 08 16:54:30 or I will dedorse you! Oct 08 16:54:36 get redorsed Oct 08 16:55:22 I don't see any endorsements on mdp's page.... Oct 08 16:55:32 I see them on prpplague's Oct 08 16:55:42 one day I'll learn how to use the internet..... Oct 08 16:55:55 there are 3 easy steps Oct 08 16:55:58 "The Ohio State University" Oct 08 16:55:59 1) get that AOL CD Oct 08 16:56:13 alan_o, I have no skills...simple logic Oct 08 16:57:08 I seem to only use linkedin when I was looking for a job...or due to this very cool endorsement game Oct 08 16:57:17 Right, no skills section... Oct 08 16:57:34 mdp: arf, I cannot connect you Oct 08 16:57:50 I guess what I meant was, it doesn't seem to show who a person endorsed. Oct 08 16:59:32 one of the things that kept me off linkedin for a long time was the fear of getting asked for recommendations from everyone I've ever met. That hasn't happened. Oct 08 17:00:13 * av500 wonders what a "scheduling specialist" does... Oct 08 17:00:37 draw tables and put numbers and day names in ? Oct 08 17:00:55 av500, really? Oct 08 17:01:16 mdp: done, had to guess your email Oct 08 17:01:37 it would not accept "i know him from #beagle" Oct 08 17:01:57 but linked in proposes a lot of people I know only from g+ Oct 08 17:02:03 I guess they trawl that Oct 08 17:02:15 * bradfa is sad no one endorses him :( Oct 08 17:02:18 they trawl your addressbook Oct 08 17:02:43 and people who use gmail have all the g+ people in their addressbook Oct 08 17:02:43 dm8tbr: they are not in my adress book Oct 08 17:02:47 oh Oct 08 17:02:50 yes Oct 08 17:02:56 but I did not upload it for a long time Oct 08 17:03:01 and these people are post upload Oct 08 17:03:10 but maybe they did Oct 08 17:03:14 right Oct 08 17:03:18 bastards Oct 08 17:03:29 its like facebook :) Oct 08 17:04:25 dm8tbr: there, I endorsed you Oct 08 17:04:37 dunny why you put "rotten fish mongering" Oct 08 17:05:30 @.@ Oct 08 17:07:14 av500, no "colleague from #beagle" Oct 08 17:07:17 mdp: actually, looking back at the log, I'm retracting everything..... I read this whole log wrong, and now I feel like I came off like a jerk. I thought I read a comment that someone had endorsed _you_ (instead of the other way), then I said I couldn't see it on your page (makes sense), then I said I was looking for people _you_ endorsed (which I was also doing). Anyway, I was much confused, and wasn't trying to be a jerk (which is no d Oct 08 17:07:17 oubt what an out of the blue comment of "no endorsements on your page" must have sounded like). Oct 08 17:08:06 alan_o, hehe..it's just linkedin, nothing to be concerned about Oct 08 17:08:36 I figured it was a good day to update the profile and click on hundreds of endorsements..just to keep the game going Oct 08 17:08:40 i loled when there was really a "procrastination" skill autocomplete :) Oct 08 17:09:43 my whole goal was to login just to endorse jon masters as having no life Oct 08 17:09:51 but then I started having real fun Oct 08 17:11:12 I love the up/down percentages on all the skills. All my skills show down all the time :( Oct 08 17:12:05 does that mean I should sell my embedded linux equities and take the loss on taxes? Oct 08 17:12:09 oh nos Oct 08 17:12:26 Maybe so. Looking how, "Intel 8051" shows up 7% Oct 08 17:12:28 SELL! Oct 08 17:12:55 I want me some of that 8051 love Oct 08 17:13:05 I'm overinvested in 6502! Oct 08 17:13:58 hehe Oct 08 17:16:55 haha 'open source' 1% up, 'open source software' -1% Oct 08 17:17:37 there's no "Google Search and Copy GPL Code To Avoid Writing New Code" Oct 08 17:17:44 odd Oct 08 17:17:49 It's all about what headhunters are punching into the search box, as I understand it. Oct 08 17:18:01 but we can have some endorsement over just "Google Search" skills Oct 08 17:18:05 git is up 38% Oct 08 17:20:01 av500 knows "Google Search" Oct 08 17:21:32 makes me think of this one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-GPxkpjCvWI Oct 08 17:22:08 no pr0n? Oct 08 17:22:27 mdp: so there is some page on linkedin.com that provides recommendation trends? Oct 08 17:23:00 av500, why don't you have IRC skill? Oct 08 17:23:30 I've already demonstrated I have no IRC skill Oct 08 17:23:48 mdp: there, endorsed! Oct 08 17:24:57 hardware people can't IRC.. :) Oct 08 17:25:41 hehe Oct 08 17:25:52 Nobody's ever confused me with a hardware guy though..... I'm back to no excuses :( Oct 08 17:25:52 mranostay, av500 is hardware people? Oct 08 17:26:08 "those people" Oct 08 17:26:22 ooo, there's a "Fast Learner" skill! Oct 08 17:26:37 there must be a punchcard plugin for irssi somewher for these people Oct 08 17:26:52 prpplague, endorsements..just login and you will be assaulted with requests to endorse that "John Smith knows C?" Oct 08 17:27:13 prpplague, and most importantly, "Does Matthew Porter know Google Search?" Oct 08 17:27:16 don't HW people just use a high impedence 1000V interface for IRC? Oct 08 17:27:38 prpplague: when my employer tires of me, I may need that skill endorsed to get a Cloud job Oct 08 17:27:51 ds2, yeah, but the neighbors complain about the bright flashes all the time Oct 08 17:27:55 mdp: hehe Oct 08 17:28:07 jkridner, koen: ok, I'm back, give me couple minutes to read it Oct 08 17:32:43 can I have "LinkedIn Endorsements" as a skill? Oct 08 17:33:31 *g+ Oct 08 17:34:52 how about Trolling? Oct 08 17:35:12 only if apporved by mru Oct 08 17:36:03 that would interesting in job interviews. "i see you have trolling down as a skill set, can you explain how you do that?" Oct 08 17:36:28 hehe Oct 08 17:36:50 ..."please give me an example" Oct 08 17:41:37 "How do you see your Trolling experience contributing to the team here at Dumass and Dumass?" Oct 08 17:44:46 95% reduction in dumb questions Oct 08 17:44:54 200% increase in googling first Oct 08 17:46:06 50% drop in morale Oct 08 17:46:14 there will be side effects Oct 08 18:09:28 <_av500_> +1 Oct 08 18:10:31 mranostay, alas, HR's "be nice" anti-trolling policies leave us with just the status quo Oct 08 18:13:54 you gain nothing from being nice :) Oct 08 18:14:35 <_av500_> or from being helpful Oct 08 18:15:08 *a place in heaven* Oct 08 18:15:36 <_av500_> seen the waiting list? Oct 08 18:16:50 that's why you make an appointment first Oct 08 18:18:43 hell has all the cool people Oct 08 18:19:02 <_av500_> and science Oct 08 18:19:24 that'd balance the climate over there wouldn't it? Oct 08 18:19:25 first circle of hell doesn't seem all that bad Oct 08 18:21:14 <_av500_> mranostay: share it on g+ Oct 08 18:22:51 share what? Oct 08 18:24:04 i forget can MIPS be LE if one chooses? Oct 08 18:25:35 yeah Oct 08 18:25:46 and it's not quite like armeb Oct 08 18:26:58 mranostay, MIPS wears the obligatory beard when running LE. Oct 08 18:27:07 (and powerpc-el for that matter) Oct 08 18:28:24 lol...I remember the slowaris powerpc-el port back at moto ;) Oct 08 18:28:51 NT too, fwiw Oct 08 18:29:02 wow Oct 08 18:29:19 i remember the x86 solaris :) Oct 08 18:29:25 what is the point of that? :) Oct 08 18:29:43 it's hard to remember the point of any of it Oct 08 18:30:05 Lets see, did I end up tossing my solaris CD? Oct 08 18:30:17 solaris 1? Oct 08 18:30:18 I know I had, and I'm pretty sure I lost, the FD image needed for booting Oct 08 18:30:37 Fairly certain I scrapped the box by now Oct 08 18:30:41 Tartarus, I was just wondering if I had the solaris powerpc disks for my blackhawks Oct 08 18:30:55 Tartarus, I have them all perfectly preserved in my personal museum Oct 08 18:31:02 nice Oct 08 18:31:12 I gave up on that kind of notion ages ago, less shit to move :) Oct 08 18:31:16 including the infamous mac clone killer..I love that one Oct 08 18:31:59 it actually has real OF instead of this fake FDT stuff ;) Oct 08 18:32:01 I guess I should have sent you the LongTrail rather than scrapping that :) Oct 08 18:36:23 *sigh* Oct 08 18:41:34 what could you use to stick a small device under a table? Oct 08 18:41:52 o_O Oct 08 18:42:25 I usually stick small devices under tables by setting them down manually Oct 08 18:42:36 throwing is an option Oct 08 18:45:03 chewing gum works Oct 08 18:45:17 or if you want to be more hygenic, modeling clay Oct 08 18:45:26 wont stick Oct 08 18:45:31 museum putty Oct 08 18:45:55 you are talking about QFN-8 or DSON sized stuff, right? Oct 08 18:46:00 'small devices' Oct 08 18:46:07 or you talking about xilinx sized BGAs? Oct 08 18:46:45 maybe the small device *is* chewing gum Oct 08 18:47:16 djlewis: got a good deal on teflon tables? Oct 08 18:48:18 ds2: first lets discuss that beachside property I have for sale ;) Oct 08 18:51:49 * mdp looks to endorse several people for Trolling Oct 08 18:52:29 like a dime Oct 08 18:52:36 or small coin Oct 08 18:53:36 Is the CLK on an SDIO interface very very sinusoidal Oct 08 18:53:40 rather than looking squarewave'ish? Oct 08 18:54:09 sounds like a bad scope probe Oct 08 18:54:27 I know it sounds like it, but the data pins are much less so Oct 08 18:54:38 termination? Oct 08 18:55:12 it's just a normal 10 megohm probe Oct 08 18:55:22 and i'm probing right on the beaglebone MMC connector watching the clock and data Oct 08 18:55:38 I *think* it might be right that it's really sinusoidal, for noise/emi control Oct 08 18:55:49 for some reason though I'm having a bad time googling for "sdio waveform" Oct 08 19:01:01 give up. google is broken. Oct 08 19:01:06 okay Oct 08 19:01:08 * SilicaGel kills himself Oct 08 19:01:10 you won't find anything useful there Oct 08 19:02:12 * mdp tries to locate the "Bing Search" skill Oct 08 19:02:26 bing is breaking things too Oct 08 19:02:55 those PoS don't return whwat you searched for. they return what they want to return which is often completely unrelated Oct 08 19:05:59 koen: anything to try on nodejs build? Oct 08 19:06:19 tar output path seems hosed. Oct 08 19:23:37 What would I need to build a device that can record and transmit people speaking to each other in a room to my computer? Oct 08 19:25:51 <_av500_> a tape recorder? Oct 08 19:26:08 <_av500_> a mobile phone? Oct 08 19:26:32 <_av500_> you mean a spy bug? Oct 08 19:26:40 Well something that I coud stick under a table. yes a spy bug Oct 08 19:28:42 koen, denix, _chase_: draft v2 sent Oct 08 19:29:06 jkridner: thanks Oct 08 19:29:07 is some professor assigning homework to build a speech scrambler out of a beagleboard? Because that "question" keeps coming up over, and over, and over, and over .... Oct 08 19:30:06 <_av500_> it was a different assignment, but it got scrambled Oct 08 19:30:15 oh Oct 08 19:30:28 it looked to me like they were scrambling to do their homework Oct 08 19:30:47 speech scrambler? like encryption light? then transmit and rescramble? Oct 08 19:31:01 I wonder if they figured it out, or ended up with egg on their face. Oct 08 19:31:07 no this is just for fun for me, a hobby project Oct 08 19:43:16 <_av500_> Mertesacker: well, a small fm transmitter or so Oct 08 19:43:21 <_av500_> google has info on that Oct 08 19:46:59 just run your audio through a ring modulator Oct 08 19:47:06 then demodulate Oct 08 19:49:32 it will certainly be scrambled to anyone that doesnt have their own ring demodulator on the circuit :) Oct 08 19:50:12 then add random carrier for both ends to sync to. Oct 08 19:50:25 <_av500_> old school Oct 08 19:50:31 cheap though Oct 08 19:51:13 old school is characterised by, besides being old, that it _works_ Oct 08 19:52:31 get two engnima machines for some older school than mine ;P Oct 08 19:53:19 * djlewis does not recall the ring mod coder being upgraded to random carier techniques. Oct 08 19:53:25 carrier Oct 08 19:54:15 carrier pigeon Oct 08 19:57:03 well what i want to do is a spy bug. just for fun. so record voices and transmit so i can catch with another device and play it, preferably on my computer. how do i do this? Oct 08 19:58:51 fm transmitter Oct 08 19:59:28 any thoughts from this group on a simplified step-by-step eg. http://beagleboard.org/getting-started/ vs. more generic info eg. http://beagleboard.org/static/beaglebone/latest/README.htm ? Oct 08 20:03:30 PIC vs beagle? Oct 08 20:03:32 SpiesArUs.com Oct 08 20:08:42 <_av500_> neither Oct 08 20:13:21 jkridner: I like simplified step-by-steps for getting started. As we talked about here a few days ago. Oct 08 20:13:31 jkridner: is there something new on one of those pages? Oct 08 20:13:47 or was this a general question about the future of documentation for the project? Oct 08 20:15:02 the quick start is more about running the "demo" shipped. and the Angstrom and stuff is still confusing(mirrors many images do download etc). I like the Other currently available starting images section and starting about all the differences on the getting started pages is not what the user will want. Oct 08 20:15:51 jkridner: even though "I need exact steps" has become somewhat of a running joke here, I think it's beneficial for users who are new to embedded Linux and even new to Linux in general. Those people will be attracted to this type of project. Oct 08 20:16:19 I would suggest a page about Angstrom + cloud ide stuff (a simple link do download updates) and a pages about the process of chosing a "distro" Oct 08 20:17:22 (and move the support quick start with a pointer to the normal demo. so people start with just plugging the dece play around (fix the driver installation/network related problems). Oct 08 20:17:40 keesj: for the "newbs", I think I need to get the "demo" explained early... Oct 08 20:18:03 for those not interested, I want them to find the way to the console and other distros quickly. Oct 08 20:18:34 alan_o: it is regarding the future of documentation. Oct 08 20:18:41 after that they are ready to hit the "sd card formatting problems" downloading scripts or even build their own Angstrom image Oct 08 20:20:53 I never see cloud9 questions here, that tells me it's sufficiently documented Oct 08 20:22:49 <_av500_> or not used :) Oct 08 20:22:52 my unscientific sampling of #beagle says 40% OE build problems 30% kernel/userspace howto do some devel task 30% how does the board/soc/peripheral work Oct 08 20:22:56 I think it's a different group of (more creative) people doing the cloud9 stuff. irc is for the olddies Oct 08 20:23:24 <_av500_> and homework seekers Oct 08 20:23:49 ok, I forgot the 0.05% asking about beagleboard.org doc style Oct 08 20:24:07 keesj, ouch..oldies :( Oct 08 20:25:03 jkridner: for this forum, and I agree that this forum may not be representative of beagle users, I think mdp is right. Oct 08 20:25:27 keesj, the beagleboard group looks similar with maybe cloud9 having some traction and some percentage goes to myoder's classroom saying hello to the list. Oct 08 20:26:51 how/where is the module dependencies in the linux kernel detected. something in each driver? when I modprobe omap2430.ko, it drags musb-hdrc.ko and smsc95xx.ko along, and that seems a bit odd.. Oct 08 20:26:53 the people on the lists and web want something like the Arduino, get "productive" and connect things to the net.(but I think that is only a fraction of the stuff you can do with the beagle/bones). Oct 08 20:27:26 jkridner: Here are the topics I think are important to have well documented (based on users of this channel and the mailing list), from an official source: How to build the kernel (with and without OE), how to build OE userspace, how to do some basic GPIO from userspace, how to use spidev. Oct 08 20:27:44 <_av500_> good list Oct 08 20:28:06 the documentation on the website need to address booth groups. that is why I think the demo concept is good. Stuff about koen's 3d printing might also give some people a direction Oct 08 20:30:03 tasslehoff: aren't module dependencies usually controlled by depmod? Oct 08 20:30:19 Starterware is also very good for people who want to learn about the hardware. Oct 08 20:30:58 jkridner: one thing also in my mind is that there's a disconnect between what people think these boards are and what they actually are. I've put it before as there are people who think it's a large microcontroller, and people who think it's a small PC. Of course, it's both, and it's neither. Something that could address both of those groups would be good. Oct 08 20:31:49 jkridner: I guess managing expectations. 1: this is much more complicated than an Arduino, 2: this is not quite as plug-and-play as a PC. Oct 08 20:31:57 alan_o: I agree (even better would be to do booth on the same device using the second core:P ) Oct 08 20:32:44 tasslehoff: The dependencies are part of the kernel build system. Look at files called Kbuild in the kernel source tree. Oct 08 20:33:11 keesj: bit-bang an Arduino :) Oct 08 20:33:24 + the whole openocd / jtag stuff. While I really fancy doing this stuff I think it is not relevant for people not doing bare-bones stuff Oct 08 20:34:20 alan_o +1 on your list, and I'll raise you an i2c-dev. Oct 08 20:34:36 keesj: yeah, forgot about those. It'd be great if there were a quick tutorial on how to get that set up. (there may be, I haven't looked) Oct 08 20:34:40 alan_o: thanks. never looked at those before. haven't figured out the dependencies from *.c :) Oct 08 20:35:10 maybe off topic but seems to me there would be a fs with full board perpherial support built in. Oct 08 20:35:34 i2c, spi, gpio and such, at least a bit of each Oct 08 20:35:46 djlewis, isn't that angstrom? Oct 08 20:35:53 not the one I know Oct 08 20:35:57 hrm Oct 08 20:35:58 I think he means some examples. Oct 08 20:36:02 oh Oct 08 20:36:13 and is this really Beagle related? Oct 08 20:36:24 yes, I've always felt there should be canonical docs for that stuff specific to beagle* Oct 08 20:36:26 I mean a fs one does not have to edit a mux table and recompile to make work Oct 08 20:37:09 keesj, yes and no...there's a lot mux/connector specifics that require a beagle* tuned reference Oct 08 20:37:18 newbies coming from arduino are used to having a simple #include "something" and it works Oct 08 20:37:30 <_av500_> djlewis: include "beagle.h" :) Oct 08 20:37:34 hehee Oct 08 20:37:35 I think what djlewis is saying would be great. How about "here's how to connect up an Arduino (or other device) to your beagle using $interface" Oct 08 20:37:51 afk240 Oct 08 20:38:08 thats on the now discontinued tincan add ons Oct 08 20:38:38 <_av500_> today I saw demo code from a surplus vendor named Pollin here in germany, it had #include "pollin.h" Oct 08 20:38:51 no, people get overwhelmed by the complexity of making a simple gpio I/O work or a simople A/D work Oct 08 20:40:15 I have seen threads go on and on about what should in my mind be built in support, not working Oct 08 20:40:34 * djlewis goes back to sleep now :) Oct 08 20:41:47 <_av500_> :) Oct 08 20:42:18 :( Oct 08 20:44:54 it just works. Oct 08 20:51:18 hi Oct 08 20:52:14 I am working on a power sensitive project, and wanted to know how much power a beagle board consumes. How would I go about getting this information? Oct 08 20:52:38 or in general for any ARM based embedded system Oct 08 20:54:41 <_av500_> study data sheets Oct 08 20:54:46 <_av500_> and apply rule of thumb rules Oct 08 20:54:51 Ahmed_: could try the am3359 TRM Oct 08 20:54:58 <_av500_> also, it depends a lot Oct 08 20:54:58 That's just the CPU Oct 08 20:55:10 <_av500_> TRM ususally does not list power figures Oct 08 20:55:18 <_av500_> that would be in the DM Oct 08 20:55:22 reading back... had distraction Oct 08 20:55:34 <_av500_> jkridner: one does not simply read the backlog Oct 08 20:56:31 do they *experience* it? Oct 08 20:56:34 it depends also on your power supply Oct 08 20:56:47 Ahmed_, look at PowerManagement numbers for OMAP3EVM.. must be somewhere on processors.wiki.ti.com Oct 08 20:57:03 they had real numbers/measurements done Oct 08 20:57:15 you can always measure it yourself Oct 08 20:57:21 it isn't that hard Oct 08 20:57:35 when I've tried to document the kernel build process, I ran into some impedance. Oct 08 20:57:46 Actually interesting I found some number in the beglebone data sheet Oct 08 20:57:56 real or imaginary impedance? Oct 08 20:58:45 <_av500_> Ahmed_: again, that is just the CPU Oct 08 20:58:45 from this channel, I usually experience reactance Oct 08 20:58:52 <_av500_> ignorance Oct 08 20:59:03 no, I _provide_ that :) Oct 08 20:59:07 complex I see Oct 08 20:59:44 <_av500_> will beagleboard join http://www1.webplatform.org/ Oct 08 20:59:44 <_av500_> ? Oct 08 20:59:44 so jkridner, what was the impedance about documenting how to build a kernel? That surprises me somewhat. Oct 08 21:11:39 Ahmed_, something like this - http://processors.wiki.ti.com/index.php/AM/DM37x_Low_Power_Standby_Support Oct 08 21:11:39 the question isn't so much if there is impedence. rather you want to match it to maximize power transfer Oct 08 21:11:39 _av500_: interesting. Oct 08 21:11:39 we can't agree on a process for building the kernel. :-( Oct 08 21:11:39 * jkridner is apparently too dumb Oct 08 21:11:39 are there ways other than with or without OE? Oct 08 21:11:39 typing "make" is too controversial? Oct 08 21:11:39 praying and making offers to the gods don't work? Oct 08 21:11:39 those in the know are apparently too smart Oct 08 21:11:39 thanks tema Oct 08 21:11:40 My opinion is firmly that documentation is not for the "smart" and in this case by smart I mean people who already know it. Oct 08 21:11:40 I wrote down steps I used to build a kernel module and was told they were essentially evil. Oct 08 21:11:40 <_av500_> by a certain dutchman Oct 08 21:11:40 your own out-of-tree module? Oct 08 21:11:41 jkridner: I think part of it is you are assuming people start with a OE infested tree Oct 08 21:11:41 documentation is not for the person that wrote it. Oct 08 21:11:41 <_av500_> ds2: with what tree to start? Oct 08 21:11:41 _av500_: your own personally vetted tree Oct 08 21:11:41 <_av500_> hahaa Oct 08 21:11:41 * mru sees no reason to ever build a kernel using anything other than kbuild Oct 08 21:11:41 <_av500_> sure Oct 08 21:11:41 that's what I do Oct 08 21:11:41 <_av500_> assuming there is source Oct 08 21:11:41 <_av500_> which for beagle means, get OE and let it gitpatch stuff Oct 08 21:11:41 ds2: but thats' just it "personal vetting" is for experts. Not people who are new, the people the docs are for. Oct 08 21:11:41 _av500_: I can think off at least 1 public tree that shouldn't need that Oct 08 21:11:41 <_av500_> ? Oct 08 21:11:41 there are more but you need to look Oct 08 21:11:41 if you can explain how you're doing something, you're not doing it very well Oct 08 21:11:41 <_av500_> ds2: asa user I get a bb with an sdcard Oct 08 21:11:41 <_av500_> now I want to rebuild that kernel Oct 08 21:11:41 <_av500_> where do I go? Oct 08 21:11:41 the manually powered boat project has a working kernel that doesn't need patching Oct 08 21:11:41 <_av500_> thats not what bb ships Oct 08 21:11:41 _av500_: asa? Oct 08 21:11:41 <_av500_> as a Oct 08 21:11:41 ds2: camera film has an ASA number Oct 08 21:11:41 aka ISO Oct 08 21:11:41 <_av500_> I fail to see why it ishard to have a git with bb kernel Oct 08 21:11:41 BB should go back to its roots and not ship kernels on slower then molassas in january cards Oct 08 21:11:41