**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Nov 30 02:59:58 2012
Nov 30 03:34:28 <mranostay> so i know more about trolling that C it seems
Nov 30 03:38:18 <Crofton> rofl
Nov 30 03:40:34 <edahling> Does anyone know where a test image sequence for the da8xx lcd driver could be coming from?
Nov 30 03:41:39 <mranostay> mru: ew clearcase
Nov 30 03:41:41 <edahling> When I don't connect the data enable pin to my LCD it shows a display test, red, green, blue, black, white, checkers.
Nov 30 03:41:52 <edahling> But I don't know where it's being generated from.
Nov 30 03:42:11 <edahling> And writing to the framebuffer doesn't change it.
Nov 30 03:42:48 <mranostay> mru: "Does M&#xe5;ns have these skills or expertise?" you and your name :)
Nov 30 04:51:26 <mdp> mmm….defio
Nov 30 04:51:58 <ds2> ?
Nov 30 04:51:58 <Russ> mmm…wine-1.5.18 == netflix
Nov 30 04:52:35 <Russ> jőrg's!
Nov 30 04:52:43 <mdp> ds2, browsing joelagnel's mystery of how netflix works
Nov 30 04:52:53 <mdp> s/netflix/defio/ ;)
Nov 30 04:53:02 <mdp> both run on magic smoke
Nov 30 04:53:12 <Russ> one of my friends work at one of the centers that stream it
Nov 30 04:53:20 <ds2> oh
Nov 30 04:53:23 <Russ> limewire or greenlight or something
Nov 30 04:53:24 <mdp> Russ, with the magic smoke, yes?
Nov 30 04:53:37 <ds2> 6502 netflix client?
Nov 30 04:53:42 <Russ> and some clustered filesystem
Nov 30 04:54:07 <mdp> ds2, reliable systems generally run on 6502, indeed
Nov 30 04:54:35 <Russ> limelight networks, that's it
Nov 30 04:55:26 <mdp> aha, a cloud company
Nov 30 04:55:31 <mdp> where do I sign up?
Nov 30 04:58:44 * mranostay sees mdp going crazy and building a 6502 cluster
Nov 30 04:59:32 <mdp> beowulf, brother
Nov 30 04:59:38 <mdp> it's the future today
Nov 30 05:05:17 * mranostay tosses yet another kingston SD card
Nov 30 05:07:25 <emeb_mac> killed another one?
Nov 30 05:14:56 <mranostay> it killed itself
Nov 30 05:15:15 <ds2> another one done another one down... another one bites the dust!
Nov 30 05:16:54 <ds2> hahahahahh
Nov 30 05:17:05 <ds2> the constantcontact.com mail server got labeled as a spammer
Nov 30 05:34:00 <mdp> mranostay, easy on those SD cards
Nov 30 05:34:58 <mdp> mranostay, are you a PRU expert yet?
Nov 30 05:44:47 <mranostay> no i was hacking the PWM channels atm
Nov 30 05:44:59 <mranostay> so why aren't your changes in koen's tree?
Nov 30 05:46:33 <mdp> what changes?
Nov 30 05:47:54 <mranostay> mdp: ok his tree only has the AM18x support for PRU
Nov 30 05:47:58 <mranostay> no am335x
Nov 30 05:48:26 <mdp> ask him
Nov 30 05:48:36 <mdp> the 3.6 branch has it
Nov 30 05:49:28 * mranostay pokes koen.. was there some cherry-pick issue iirc
Nov 30 05:50:00 <mdp> it isn't upstream because it opened a can of worms too
Nov 30 05:51:10 <mdp> sadly, the person that owns the blocking issue has been laid off :(
Nov 30 05:51:27 <mranostay> can of worms as in?
Nov 30 05:51:33 <mranostay> bugs or politics?
Nov 30 05:51:52 <mdp> umm
Nov 30 05:52:22 <mdp> how to handle hwmods with hardware resets
Nov 30 05:52:45 <mranostay> hmm?
Nov 30 05:53:39 <mdp> some hwmods have registers in the comtrol module that assert/deasserta reset
Nov 30 05:56:20 <mdp> those resets can't be generically handled..as theyare resources to be controlled by the driver
Nov 30 05:56:21 <mdp> the suggestedmethkdis to usea pdata function pointer to control them, but i more eloquently called that a dumb approach
Nov 30 05:57:21 <mdp> in any case, I no longer have that person to argue with...perplexing
Nov 30 05:57:31 <mranostay> ok it pulls in fine. need to test it
Nov 30 05:57:57 <mranostay> oh goodie i'll be creating yet another tree :)
Nov 30 06:00:20 <mdp> that version could work
Nov 30 06:00:21 <mdp> mranostay: i was saying today that we lack trees
Nov 30 06:00:35 <mranostay> </sarcasm>
Nov 30 06:00:37 <mranostay> ?
Nov 30 06:12:25 <ds2> mranostay: what is your usage of the PWM channels?
Nov 30 06:12:42 <mranostay> ds2: boost converter and brightness control
Nov 30 06:13:02 <ds2> boost converter? why not use the PWM on the PMIC ?
Nov 30 06:13:10 <ds2> or is that F'ed?
Nov 30 06:23:53 <mranostay> can't use it for triodes :)
Nov 30 06:29:02 <ka6sox> triodes?
Nov 30 06:32:07 <mranostay> ka6sox: http://web.jfet.org/inGrid/IV-18.jpg
Nov 30 06:32:53 <emeb_mac> heeeeyyyy - there's more than 3 "odes" there.
Nov 30 06:33:31 <KotH> hoi zäme
Nov 30 06:33:44 <dm8tbr> mooo
Nov 30 06:34:18 * KotH hands dm8tbr a cow
Nov 30 06:34:32 * dm8tbr has a bite
Nov 30 06:34:52 <KotH> carefull! this is a swiss cow, not one of your lethargic german cows
Nov 30 06:35:07 <KotH> mranostay: bought some of the nixie tubes? :)
Nov 30 06:35:39 <mranostay> yes little project i've been working on
Nov 30 06:37:01 <ka6sox> nixie?
Nov 30 06:37:13 <ka6sox> or flourescent?
Nov 30 06:40:47 <dm8tbr> KotH: content related - http://www.arcamax.com/thefunnies/thebarn/
Nov 30 06:41:11 <mranostay> ka6sox: well not a nixie but a vfd
Nov 30 06:42:05 <KotH> dm8tbr: *g*
Nov 30 06:48:44 <mranostay> moo!
Nov 30 06:49:36 * dm8tbr hands over the cow to mranostay - there's enough for everyone
Nov 30 06:51:32 <mranostay> what are we doing to the cow.........?
Nov 30 06:52:44 <dm8tbr> having healthy bites
Nov 30 07:05:34 <emeb_mac> mmmmm - cow.
Nov 30 07:20:08 <koen> mranostay: if it works I can pull it into the 3.7 tree
Nov 30 07:22:43 <mranostay> doesn't work for me atm
Nov 30 07:25:51 <mranostay> mdp: you using as module or builtin?
Nov 30 07:30:45 <mranostay> ah crap i bet it know what it is
Nov 30 07:45:30 <mranostay> gah i'm stupid... i should sleep now
Nov 30 07:52:29 <KotH> there is only one thing that is worse than customers: suppliers!
Nov 30 07:58:17 <keesj> user, suppliers and dealers, that brings it all together
Nov 30 07:59:02 <keesj> and the customer is something like a "user" supplier
Nov 30 08:01:56 <av500> gm
Nov 30 08:03:08 <keesj> hi
Nov 30 08:05:53 <av500> minix doing good?
Nov 30 08:06:04 <mranostay> av500: you on the relief shift
Nov 30 08:06:10 * mranostay heads to sleep for realz
Nov 30 08:06:49 <keesj> not bad I hope a few more weeks to go.
Nov 30 08:07:41 <keesj> the big missing thing will probably be networking because of the also missing usb stack.
Nov 30 08:08:21 <keesj> I wonder if if would be easyer to have some cape or custom spin of the beagle.
Nov 30 08:08:45 <mranostay> minix?
Nov 30 08:08:55 * mranostay stays awake
Nov 30 08:09:10 <mranostay> keesj: what are you up too?
Nov 30 08:10:08 <keesj> I am currently working on the MINIX 3 arm port
Nov 30 08:10:43 <mranostay> keesj: are you a tanenbaum student? :)
Nov 30 08:10:49 <keesj> and the first board we are targetting is the beagle (xm).
Nov 30 08:11:20 <keesj> where was a job posting for helping with the ARM port and I applied indeed
Nov 30 08:12:44 <keesj> Some good stuff has happend in the last few year in the MINIX 3 world( e.g. it's now BSD licensed , uses the netbsd libc,clang and so)
Nov 30 08:14:30 <keesj> on the longer run I hope for some niche embedded related MINIX business.
Nov 30 08:15:20 <mranostay> interesting
Nov 30 08:15:58 <keesj> and fun :p
Nov 30 08:16:18 <panto> keesj, you'll get to learn alot, but don't count on much embedded business :)
Nov 30 08:16:59 <keesj> panto why not?
Nov 30 08:17:30 <panto> keesj, cause you'll get killed by driver support
Nov 30 08:17:45 <panto> as in, you'll have none
Nov 30 08:18:12 <panto> maybe in some kind of .gov grant based thing
Nov 30 08:18:32 <keesj> yes, best would be to first only support the beagle and certain use cases.
Nov 30 08:18:57 <panto> for example, how many of the peripherals of the beagle will you be able to support?
Nov 30 08:19:50 <panto> as in, not only those that are brought out by the main board, but those that are brought out to the expansion connectors
Nov 30 08:19:51 <mranostay> panto: important to note half of them are supported badly in linux now :)
Nov 30 08:19:59 <keesj> It really depends on the use case but a system with networking and support for the basic busses should be a good start
Nov 30 08:19:59 <panto> yeah, that's my point
Nov 30 08:20:27 <av500> one could always write a linux driver glue layer into minix :)
Nov 30 08:20:45 <mranostay> av500: er like BSD?
Nov 30 08:20:54 <av500> I dont like BSD
Nov 30 08:20:58 <keesj> we don't need to support a zillion devices and ARM versions
Nov 30 08:22:23 <panto> av500, I award you 1 troll point
Nov 30 08:22:36 <keesj> av500: about the glue layer. my first task was to integrate ddekit and we now do have linux driver support (for usb, mass storage and keyboards)
Nov 30 08:23:13 <mranostay> speaking of troll points
Nov 30 08:23:25 <mranostay> Crofton: has 10 and i only have 4
Nov 30 08:23:40 <keesj> but that's not really that usefull. ( http://wiki.minix3.org/en/DdeKitUsb ) you get many layer of confussion
Nov 30 08:24:30 <panto> so you've come up with a HAL
Nov 30 08:24:43 <keesj> panto: so I don't think driver is per-see the problem if we define the "solution" properly.
Nov 30 08:25:04 <panto> try to find out why people think that HALs are a bad idea
Nov 30 08:25:28 <keesj> and other interesting thing happening is the bsd RUMP stuff http://www.netbsd.org/docs/rump/
Nov 30 08:26:42 <av500> keesj: this dde kit is already obsolete
Nov 30 08:26:59 <av500> afaik, USB3 needed changes to the linux usb driver stack
Nov 30 08:27:16 <keesj> in case of ddekit and probably rump also the "hal" only abstracts away the easy stuff (threading,communication memory mapping), the hard stuff are the interfaces on top (block/ file system , busses etc)
Nov 30 08:28:07 <keesj> yes, the ddekit we are using is also using an older kernel and it's a hell to upgrade out of tree kernels. I know all about it
Nov 30 08:30:12 <keesj> more over I don't think MINIX will try an compete in terms of speed . It needs something else (ease of driver development, robustness, happy community ... )
Nov 30 08:30:44 <KotH> robustnes?
Nov 30 08:31:17 <KotH> i think last time mru tried to run libav on minix, it crashed... minix, not libav
Nov 30 08:31:18 <keesj> something like robustness
Nov 30 08:31:20 <av500> KotH: is that Fosdem 2010 all over again?
Nov 30 08:31:27 <KotH> av500: dunno
Nov 30 08:31:34 <KotH> av500: wasnt in brussels in 2010
Nov 30 08:31:38 <KotH> i think...
Nov 30 08:31:40 <av500> was it 2009?
Nov 30 08:31:43 <av500> minix3?
Nov 30 08:31:53 <KotH> ah.. you mean the tannenbaum talk
Nov 30 08:31:56 <KotH> well.. yeah...
Nov 30 08:31:57 <av500> yep
Nov 30 08:32:09 <KotH> it sucked
Nov 30 08:32:10 <av500> I remember you quite agitated :)
Nov 30 08:32:11 <KotH> he deserved it
Nov 30 08:32:19 <KotH> *g*
Nov 30 08:32:31 <KotH> havent heard so much BS in OS development in a long time
Nov 30 08:33:31 <av500> keesj: but if driver development is so easy, why these APIs to hook alien drivers
Nov 30 08:34:36 * mranostay looking forward for E-ELC 2013
Nov 30 08:34:46 <mranostay> pub crawl for sure
Nov 30 08:34:54 <panto> av500, cause the OS is a commodity nowadays
Nov 30 08:34:55 <keesj> things can be easy and still take a very long time. and something like the usb stack is not even easy
Nov 30 08:37:27 <mranostay> USB is never easy
Nov 30 08:39:46 <keesj> sometimes OS is a commodity and specially when I think of Linux/Android it's really easy go get somebody else(vendor) to provide you with a working port.
Nov 30 08:41:31 <keesj> but for the rest of the market (as far as I know) it's not always that easy.
Nov 30 08:42:52 <koen> I wonder
Nov 30 08:43:09 <koen> port minix to cortex m3 and use rpmsg to load into the PM M3 on the bone
Nov 30 08:44:32 <LetoThe2nd> koen: BTW, do you know of rpmsg efforts outside the omap4 universe?
Nov 30 08:44:40 <LetoThe2nd> anything kind-of functional?
Nov 30 08:45:01 <koen> ST-e uses it for their modems, no?
Nov 30 08:45:05 <koen> and mdp for 6502
Nov 30 08:45:16 <LetoThe2nd> koen: mdp does?
Nov 30 08:45:28 <koen> LetoThe2nd: you missed his ELC-E talk?
Nov 30 08:45:53 <LetoThe2nd> koen: not at all, but i looked more into the ad-bus-emulation ;)
Nov 30 08:46:29 <LetoThe2nd> koen: i'm trying to get a grasp on it, but the getting started documentation for the omap4's m3 cores is ugly to so the least
Nov 30 08:47:00 <LetoThe2nd> (like: you need those 4 magic packages, and only these 3 are availalbe... then clik this and this and this... and then call your FAE)
Nov 30 08:48:20 <LetoThe2nd> the linux side looks ok ;)
Nov 30 08:49:01 <keesj> thanks for the feedback guys! and If you *do* have good,bad different ideas for MINIX on ARM... I would like to hear them
Nov 30 08:49:22 <LetoThe2nd> .. like forking into MAXix?
Nov 30 08:49:34 <LetoThe2nd> *SCNR*
Nov 30 08:49:49 <koen> LetoThe2nd: the bits and bobs to use the M3 on omap4 are all public and work
Nov 30 08:49:59 <koen> LetoThe2nd: the firmware and how to build it not so much
Nov 30 08:50:54 <LetoThe2nd> koen: i mean hey http://omappedia.org/wiki/RPMsg_BIOS_Sources is *really* not what i want a) in my workflow b) maybe there are other socs that are _not_ meant to run that sys/bios thing?
Nov 30 08:52:03 <koen> LetoThe2nd: sys/bios is just a 'standardized' task scheduler
Nov 30 08:52:29 <koen> LetoThe2nd: keep in mind that every example TI publishes needs to scale up to massive multicore DSPs
Nov 30 08:52:40 <LetoThe2nd> koen: exactly, apart from getting the firmware *built* at all, how does the rpmsg interface have to look like
Nov 30 08:52:43 <koen> LetoThe2nd: so "hello world" becomes a huge undertaking
Nov 30 08:53:52 <LetoThe2nd> koen: so looking at the pruss implementation of mdp might help?
Nov 30 08:54:44 <koen> yes
Nov 30 08:54:52 <koen> the ST-e modem stuff in is mainline as well
Nov 30 08:55:04 <koen> (or should be, haven't checked)
Nov 30 08:55:21 <LetoThe2nd> in linux mainline... i see little problems in building a linux kernel ;)
Nov 30 08:55:30 <koen> LetoThe2nd: that goes way over my head, but ISTR it involves resource tables and virtio
Nov 30 08:55:49 <LetoThe2nd> koen: something like that, yes.
Nov 30 08:56:02 <LetoThe2nd> *admits he is waiting for the vybrid*
Nov 30 08:57:00 <av500> LetoThe2nd: rpmsg by itself is fairly simple
Nov 30 08:57:03 <koen> LetoThe2nd: https://github.com/torvalds/linux/tree/master/drivers/remoteproc
Nov 30 08:57:05 <av500> its a message passing API
Nov 30 08:57:17 <LetoThe2nd> koen: found that, yes
Nov 30 08:57:35 <koen> LetoThe2nd: keep in mind that pretty much everyone working on that from TI got fired yesterday
Nov 30 08:57:41 <LetoThe2nd> koen: /me knows
Nov 30 08:58:05 <koen> almost every @ti.com posting to the linux-omap list is gone
Nov 30 08:58:09 <koen> except PSP
Nov 30 08:58:16 <av500> wow
Nov 30 08:58:20 <av500> :(
Nov 30 09:02:47 <mranostay> :/
Nov 30 09:06:38 <agmlego> koen: What happened, if I may ask?
Nov 30 09:12:46 <koen> agmlego: 1700 people got fired
Nov 30 09:13:29 <agmlego> Ouch.
Nov 30 09:22:29 <av500> http://www.cnx-software.com/2012/11/30/kontron-unveils-ulp-com-sa3874i-module-powered-by-ti-sitara-am3874
Nov 30 09:24:59 <KotH> av500: my favorite quote from that talk was "making the system 20% slower is worth it for the addtional security"
Nov 30 09:28:57 <av500> :)
Nov 30 09:30:52 <KotH> av500: i see tannenbaum as a wirth who has not been retired yet
Nov 30 09:31:45 <florian> koen: eeks... so 50% of the folks in here are looking for a new job?
Nov 30 09:33:15 <koen> florian: kinda, sorta
Nov 30 09:33:24 <koen> florian: the beagle part of TI is unaffected
Nov 30 09:33:30 <koen> florian: it's the mobile phone people
Nov 30 09:34:33 <florian> koen: oh well... so ti makes its best effort to destroy its own competence in an area where it is really good?
Nov 30 09:35:05 <florian> they suffer from the 'nokia effect'
Nov 30 09:35:30 <panto> KotH, as linus said, the security guys are way overstating security's importance
Nov 30 09:37:55 <KotH> panto: it would be cool if that would make a system totally secure. but it's just a OS facility that allows to better seperate processes and drivers. it disregards the fact that 99% of all wurms and trojans these days do not seek to take over the machine, but either run some network process (which there is no way to protect against) or to gather information about the user who started that process (which you cannot do much about it)
Nov 30 09:38:11 <koen> florian: there's no money in mobile phone SoCs anymore
Nov 30 09:38:15 <KotH> ie, most of the problems these days are in user space and cannot be fixed in the kernel
Nov 30 09:38:34 <koen> florian: samsung and qualcomm have a too big a share of the market
Nov 30 09:38:43 <panto> KotH, and they won't be fixed cause that would require user-space programmers to get a clue
Nov 30 09:39:01 <KotH> florian: omap is not the only arm system ti has. the others are pretty much unaffected, as far as i understood
Nov 30 09:39:08 <KotH> panto: exactly!
Nov 30 09:39:11 <panto> you can't do that when using the latest fad of a language
Nov 30 09:39:31 <florian> koen: I do not really buy this...
Nov 30 09:39:33 <panto> it requires understanding what goes on in the system
Nov 30 09:40:12 <KotH> florian: you dont have to buy it, it's fact
Nov 30 09:40:13 <koen> florian: it looks like only amazon is buying OMAPs currently
Nov 30 09:40:16 <KotH> florian: like gravity
Nov 30 09:40:19 <panto> you can't understand when the language and dev environment actively tries to hide that from you so that your pissed off avian game will run
Nov 30 09:40:31 <koen> florian: and that's not enough volume to account for R&D and headcount
Nov 30 09:40:46 <KotH> panto: eh.. people dont even know what their language is doing
Nov 30 09:41:02 <florian> koen: Wouldn't this be a reason to fire the marketing department? ;)
Nov 30 09:41:03 <KotH> panto: from all the people i know who do java, only 2 of them have a clue how the jvm works under the hood
Nov 30 09:41:14 <av500> florian: there is nobody to market too
Nov 30 09:41:23 <av500> the TI mobile offering lacks severely
Nov 30 09:41:29 <av500> as in NO RADIO
Nov 30 09:41:33 <LetoThe2nd> koen: james gosling, and?
Nov 30 09:41:41 <LetoThe2nd> oops, KotH ^^^^^^
Nov 30 09:41:48 <av500> LetoThe2nd: and Chuck Norris
Nov 30 09:41:55 <LetoThe2nd> av500: ah, me stupid.
Nov 30 09:42:08 <KotH> LetoThe2nd: dont know james gosling :)
Nov 30 09:42:43 <KotH> LetoThe2nd: but i doubt he knows how a modern jvm works
Nov 30 09:43:24 <LetoThe2nd> KotH: hehe
Nov 30 09:44:05 <panto> KotH, java has been a huge blow to computing IMO
Nov 30 09:44:23 <panto> but I'm a grumbling old engineer, wtf do I know?
Nov 30 09:44:44 <KotH> panto: probably more than i do :)
Nov 30 09:44:54 <panto> hence the older part :)
Nov 30 09:45:18 <av500> jvm makes the birds fly
Nov 30 09:46:27 <LetoThe2nd> av500: .. but the whales die
Nov 30 09:46:57 <KotH> damn.. test theory is boooooooooring
Nov 30 09:51:37 <keesj> KotH: Android for example separates applications by running them as different users. that is something that really does help leaking information between programs and the network.
Nov 30 09:52:25 <keesj> so booth that trick or use virtualisation like techniques can address more modern problems.
Nov 30 09:52:33 <KotH> keesj: and we see how effective that is
Nov 30 09:53:28 <keesj> it's a push in the right direction.
Nov 30 09:53:38 <KotH> no it isnt
Nov 30 09:53:53 <KotH> it's again trying to solve a social probem using technical means
Nov 30 09:54:03 <KotH> this does _not_ work
Nov 30 09:54:24 <KotH> but it's being tried and tired and tried again and again and again and again and again and again and again...
Nov 30 09:55:20 <KotH> i fucking wonder whether people, who ought to know better, are really that stupid to think that users will be magically transform into well informed, always optimal decision making, god like beings
Nov 30 09:55:40 <LetoThe2nd> KotH: well i am godlike. ask my priests.
Nov 30 09:56:16 <KotH> LetoThe2nd: only as long as you get spice
Nov 30 09:56:49 <LetoThe2nd> KotH: nah... are you messing me up with some navigator or bene gesserit freak? ;)
Nov 30 09:57:02 <KotH> *g*
Nov 30 09:57:10 <LetoThe2nd> I AM THE SPICE
Nov 30 09:57:13 <keesj> you first need barriers before you can protect yourself. just assuming all the application you run won't read your mail is already proven not to work
Nov 30 09:58:02 <panto> KotH, the user must be in the loop to make security effective
Nov 30 09:58:03 <KotH> keesj: see, that's exactly what i mean
Nov 30 09:58:06 <keesj> cyanogenmod also tried a few nice tricks where I as user can revoke permissions from application
Nov 30 09:58:09 <panto> turns out most 'consumer' users are morons
Nov 30 09:58:27 <panto> so that's why apple's stuff sort-of-work
Nov 30 09:58:40 <panto> cause the real user is apple, the consumer is only a licensee
Nov 30 09:58:58 <KotH> keesj: listen to panto, he got it right!
Nov 30 09:59:45 <panto> now you won't hear anyone from marketing ever admitting that
Nov 30 10:00:03 * LetoThe2nd is totally sure that you can break any security by the correct application of 1) titties 2) violence 3) spice, or a combination thereof
Nov 30 10:00:20 <KotH> panto: what? keesj is from marketing? that would explain alot
Nov 30 10:00:48 <panto> KotH, hey, don't push it; he's one of us... GOBBLE GOBBLE
Nov 30 10:00:51 <KotH> LetoThe2nd: it's enough if your target has a small daughter
Nov 30 10:01:09 <KotH> panto: who is us? i'm not with you! ;)
Nov 30 10:01:12 <keesj> it's the same for Linux distro's I only run them because I think the people packaging them where no morons but that doesn't apply for binary only application (on Android or the Iphone)
Nov 30 10:01:26 <LetoThe2nd> KotH: i tend to file that und 2), i did not specify the violence to be physical (intentionally)
Nov 30 10:02:50 <KotH> LetoThe2nd: is it violence, if it only happens in the head of the vicitim, triggered by some innocent, general words that could be interpreted in a not so innocent way?
Nov 30 10:02:58 <keesj> panto what do you mean by apples stuff?
Nov 30 10:03:11 <panto> keesj, the 'walled garden' approach
Nov 30 10:03:37 <LetoThe2nd> KotH: certainly, because in the end its all in your head. see the last few chapters of 1984 ;)
Nov 30 10:04:16 <KotH> LetoThe2nd: :-)
Nov 30 10:04:33 <KotH> LetoThe2nd: you're aware that i study psychology?
Nov 30 10:04:45 <LetoThe2nd> KotH: nope. is it infective?
Nov 30 10:05:17 <KotH> LetoThe2nd: there are enough girls here to get you hooked up :)
Nov 30 10:05:58 <LetoThe2nd> KotH: isn't it common that the campus parties of psychology and engineering are joined?
Nov 30 10:06:11 <LetoThe2nd> or animal medicine and computer science
Nov 30 10:06:19 <KotH> LetoThe2nd: this university doesnt have an engineering department :)
Nov 30 10:06:35 <LetoThe2nd> KotH: hrhrhrhrhrhr
Nov 30 10:06:36 <KotH> LetoThe2nd: the other one here, does CS-pharmacy :)
Nov 30 10:06:47 <LetoThe2nd> KotH: poor you.
Nov 30 10:06:49 <KotH> the other universtity here*
Nov 30 10:07:13 <KotH> LetoThe2nd: nah.. sitting in lectures with 80% females is quite a lot of fun
Nov 30 10:07:20 <keesj> So the point is that there is no technical solution from preventing one application to do "wrong" stuff because users will "want the application to do wrong stuff" ?
Nov 30 10:07:21 <LetoThe2nd> i can imageine.
Nov 30 10:07:47 <LetoThe2nd> keesj: customers want applications to show titties. thats all.
Nov 30 10:07:59 <KotH> keesj: no, users grant applications the rights to do wrong stuff because they have no fucking clue what the application does
Nov 30 10:08:40 <KotH> keesj: and as long as users dont want to get a clue, there will be no technical solution
Nov 30 10:09:18 <KotH> nevermind that iphone generation.. those guys still dont know shit about what they are using
Nov 30 10:09:22 <KotH> they dont care
Nov 30 10:09:25 <KotH> they dont want to care
Nov 30 10:09:32 <KotH> as long as whatsapp works, they are happy
Nov 30 10:10:19 <KotH> or actually, as long as $friendoftheothersexthatlookssohot get that message with those hidden hints...
Nov 30 10:10:37 <KotH> or as LetoThe2nd put it: titties
Nov 30 10:10:53 <LetoThe2nd> KotH: hi5
Nov 30 10:11:11 * KotH Z5's LetoThe2nd 
Nov 30 10:11:34 <keesj> but for whatsapp at least it's kinda genuine to want to get "you addressbook" I don't trust the app but it is still genuine. The default could also be to provide apps with fake data
Nov 30 10:12:55 <KotH> keesj: you dont have a gf, do you?
Nov 30 10:13:43 <keesj> and kids yes and they are .... different... and I don't think I can protect them
Nov 30 10:14:15 <KotH> do they care whether $app needs $permission ?
Nov 30 10:14:24 <KotH> do they even know what it means?
Nov 30 10:15:14 <keesj> no and they preffer "free apps that send data to the network" over payed apps that behave
Nov 30 10:15:24 <KotH> does it cross their mind that their phone might cause trouble to them and other people because malicious software is running on it?
Nov 30 10:16:00 <KotH> ok... then how can you still think that technical measures will work in such conditions?
Nov 30 10:16:22 <panto> there is no cure for human stupidity, only death :P
Nov 30 10:16:34 <keesj> they think we "solved those problems" and are very disssapointed if they lose data
Nov 30 10:16:59 <KotH> ^'
Nov 30 10:17:05 <KotH> i give up
Nov 30 10:17:23 <KotH> av500: your turn
Nov 30 10:17:53 * LetoThe2nd watches av500 turning... or rather rotating?
Nov 30 10:17:54 <keesj> but what about You and Me? don't we care?
Nov 30 10:18:34 * KotH points at his spam folder
Nov 30 10:18:53 <KotH> i do care, but there is no point in me fixing my computer and phone if billions of others dont
Nov 30 10:23:44 <av500> KotH: sorry, I stopped following
Nov 30 10:25:23 <KotH> av500: short summary: $geek not getting that $world does not follow a newtonian deterministic model and makes the same assumption as almost all people in economics do: that people always make the best decisions using all the information available in the world
Nov 30 10:25:44 <av500> but I do!
Nov 30 10:25:46 <av500> :)
Nov 30 10:26:32 <KotH> yes, you're a heavy weight, demi-god of smartphones and tablets :-)
Nov 30 10:27:42 <av500> summary: security is hard, let's go shopping
Nov 30 10:27:57 <LetoThe2nd> concerning shopping...
Nov 30 10:28:45 <LetoThe2nd> do you see a market for a board in the beagle/panda performance and price range, but coming with long term availability and industrial grade environment certification?
Nov 30 10:28:55 <KotH> LetoThe2nd: i do
Nov 30 10:29:10 <KotH> LetoThe2nd: but it would need to have enough places to connect periphery to it
Nov 30 10:29:17 <KotH> LetoThe2nd: preferably with simple header pins
Nov 30 10:29:34 <KotH> LetoThe2nd: and easy mounting to a case or on top of another pcb
Nov 30 10:29:49 <LetoThe2nd> like, available to anybody in multiples of one, butalso in 100s or 1000nds for industrial.
Nov 30 10:30:06 <LetoThe2nd> KotH: yeah, i was thinking along the same lines.
Nov 30 10:30:12 <KotH> LetoThe2nd: actually, the bone isnt bad, the capes are a good idea, but their irregular shape is a drawback
Nov 30 10:30:38 <LetoThe2nd> KotH: hehe
Nov 30 10:30:43 <av500> SoM anybody?
Nov 30 10:31:07 <av500> ok, in a way, the bone could be seen as a SOM
Nov 30 10:31:17 <KotH> av500: wrong connector
Nov 30 10:31:32 <LetoThe2nd> av500: yeah ;) the problem is that most industrial SoMs are cpu board + baseboard, which kills the price tag.
Nov 30 10:32:02 <av500> KotH: wrong how?
Nov 30 10:32:03 <KotH> av500: think of "i need to prototype this, and i dont want to do a PCB and dont want to rely on a connector i have to order from $internetshop because the shop accross the street doesnt have it"
Nov 30 10:32:04 <LetoThe2nd> or are either not available to average joe, or...
Nov 30 10:32:18 <av500> KotH: but bone is 2.54mm
Nov 30 10:32:23 <av500> pretty standard, no?
Nov 30 10:32:24 <KotH> av500: yes
Nov 30 10:32:30 <KotH> av500: but most SoM are not
Nov 30 10:32:32 <av500> ah
Nov 30 10:32:41 <av500> well, ship the SOM with the connector
Nov 30 10:32:47 <LetoThe2nd> KotH: exactly, but after prototype being able to insert the same, lowcost board into your series if it fits.
Nov 30 10:32:55 <KotH> av500: still needs a custom pcb
Nov 30 10:33:47 <av500> KotH: so what do you want?
Nov 30 10:33:53 <av500> a SOM with 2.54mm connectors?
Nov 30 10:34:03 <LetoThe2nd> av500: why not?
Nov 30 10:34:04 <KotH> LetoThe2nd: we build nearly 100 "prototypes" of a system using an olimex arm7 eval board, because the customer needed it _NOW_ and there wasnt time to do a full custom board
Nov 30 10:34:11 <KotH> LetoThe2nd: it worked :)
Nov 30 10:34:23 <LetoThe2nd> KotH: does olimex do industrial grade?
Nov 30 10:34:24 <KotH> av500: juup, that would work
Nov 30 10:34:36 <KotH> av500: but the SoM should be still able to run stand alone
Nov 30 10:35:21 <KotH> av500: ie, just connect power to it and the cpu boots, no fancy quatrupple powersupply with exact power ramps required
Nov 30 10:35:35 <LetoThe2nd> KotH: i was even thinking of placing an arduino or bone compatible header as an option might be a good idea.
Nov 30 10:35:35 <KotH> LetoThe2nd: the project was medical grade :)
Nov 30 10:35:55 <KotH> LetoThe2nd: hmm...
Nov 30 10:36:03 <KotH> LetoThe2nd: if that restricts you too much, i wouldnt
Nov 30 10:36:06 <LetoThe2nd> KotH: 20.8 - 21.°degC, 80% humidity constant ;)
Nov 30 10:36:09 <KotH> LetoThe2nd: if it's easy, definitly a good idea
Nov 30 10:36:19 <KotH> LetoThe2nd: :)
Nov 30 10:36:58 * KotH wonders why he is sitting in this lecture
Nov 30 10:37:10 <KotH> i'm not listening, but chatting instead ^^'
Nov 30 10:37:14 <LetoThe2nd> KotH: so you can talk to me about might-be-boards? ;)
Nov 30 10:37:15 * KotH blames av500 
Nov 30 10:37:26 * KotH blames LetoThe2nd too
Nov 30 10:38:13 <LetoThe2nd> anyways, if anybody else was listening, feel free to ping me with ideas or a wishlist ;)
Nov 30 10:38:49 <KotH> LetoThe2nd: the obvious stuff: full linux support in mainline, complete documentation including manual, schematics and layout
Nov 30 10:39:26 <LetoThe2nd> KotH: *noted* ;)
Nov 30 10:39:28 <KotH> easy access to connectors, that should be 2.54mm header pins, if possible, on a 2.54mm grid
Nov 30 10:40:00 <KotH> as little as possible of the on-chip peripheries (i2c, spi, uarts,...) clobbered by the board
Nov 30 10:40:37 <KotH> and a "batteries included" style design
Nov 30 10:41:35 <KotH> oh.. and any mechanical diagram should contain measures in mm!
Nov 30 10:41:57 <av500> KotH: do you need extra handholding?
Nov 30 10:42:03 <KotH> yes please
Nov 30 10:42:05 <av500> ok
Nov 30 10:42:30 <LetoThe2nd> KotH: "batteries included"?
Nov 30 10:42:54 <LetoThe2nd> KotH: extra handholding might be available as service ;)
Nov 30 10:42:58 <KotH> av500: usually our projects have a life time of 3-6months from signing of contract to final meeting
Nov 30 10:43:29 <KotH> av500: we dont have much time to figure out how X does work. either it does work or it doesnt. if it doesnt, we choose something else
Nov 30 10:43:53 <KotH> LetoThe2nd: that means, if i get a board, it should come with something that just work
Nov 30 10:43:58 <LetoThe2nd> KotH: ah.
Nov 30 10:44:10 <KotH> LetoThe2nd: ie, let me plug in an.. lets say sdcard, and get some lights blinking
Nov 30 10:44:31 <KotH> LetoThe2nd: as a confirmation that the board works, and as a place from which i can start with my own system
Nov 30 10:44:42 <LetoThe2nd> KotH: i think i get it
Nov 30 10:45:00 <KotH> beagle/panda are not bad in that regard, lots of readily available sdcard images and instruction how to build those from scratch
Nov 30 10:46:16 <av500> http://www.jibjab.com/view/AbnlgzMPQuGsuBfZo-yh5g
Nov 30 10:46:58 <KotH> .o0(av500 has too much time)
Nov 30 10:47:15 <LetoThe2nd> considerably yes.
Nov 30 10:48:31 <av500> stuff is compiling
Nov 30 10:48:51 <KotH> xkcd 303?
Nov 30 10:50:05 <av500> and during that there is usually a 386
Nov 30 10:50:50 * KotH isnt wrong, not even on the internet
Nov 30 10:52:30 <av500> https://plus.google.com/u/0/105145720400092229463/posts/EvrPwuDzo8i
Nov 30 10:52:31 <av500> haha
Nov 30 10:52:46 <av500> these days "is it fully open source" gets people running
Nov 30 10:52:57 <av500> bless you rpi
Nov 30 10:53:38 <LetoThe2nd> http://www.hardkernel.com/renewal_2011/products/prdt_info.php?g_code=G135341370451
Nov 30 10:53:42 <LetoThe2nd> waaaaaaay cooler
Nov 30 10:53:50 <av500> yes
Nov 30 10:53:58 <av500> but only 4xA9
Nov 30 10:54:02 <av500> that is so 2012
Nov 30 10:54:08 <KotH> http://com.odroid.com/sigong/_Files/2012/201211/images/201211271521204518.jpg
Nov 30 10:54:09 <LetoThe2nd> aaaaw
Nov 30 10:54:20 <KotH> does someone need a vaild cc number? :)
Nov 30 10:54:38 <LetoThe2nd> KotH: www.createyourccnumber.ru
Nov 30 10:57:12 <av500> aynthing good on DX these days?
Nov 30 10:57:25 <KotH> DX?
Nov 30 10:57:34 <KotH> you probably dont mean amateur radio, do you?
Nov 30 10:57:36 <koen> LetoThe2nd: your idea sounds a lot like what we do at circuitco for 'white labels'
Nov 30 10:58:00 <LetoThe2nd> koen: white labels?
Nov 30 10:59:29 <LetoThe2nd> koen: if you google "circuitco white label" i find your wiki abused: http://www.circuitco.com/support/index.php?title=User:MikeTimothy2341
Nov 30 11:00:23 <KotH> lecture is over...bbl
Nov 30 11:00:36 <jackmitchell> So, Linux Gurus of the Beagle channel, a bit OT but I'll see if I can tap your knowledge anyway
Nov 30 11:00:56 <jackmitchell> I have a machine which has run out of disk space completely
Nov 30 11:01:09 <jackmitchell> When I SSH in, it ask for my password and then hangs
Nov 30 11:01:16 <LetoThe2nd> jackmitchell: mail the guild, they ahve space folding technology
Nov 30 11:01:31 <jackmitchell> this machine (currently) at a remote location
Nov 30 11:01:51 <jackmitchell> does anyone know any tricks?
Nov 30 11:02:41 * LetoThe2nd does not see any chance to affect the login process from the outside. and as even that fails, you are doomed. IMHO.
Nov 30 11:02:56 <jackmitchell> LetoThe2nd: yes, as I thought
Nov 30 11:03:33 <jackmitchell> the machine is at home, so I will see if I can get in directly after work
Nov 30 11:07:15 <woglinde> if the space is full there is no trick
Nov 30 11:07:33 <woglinde> install a monitoring which warns you before the space is full
Nov 30 11:10:42 <keesj> perhaps login a root (disks can have extra space for root users) or if you have some web services running (or git) try playing with that.
Nov 30 11:10:59 <keesj> keep trying
Nov 30 11:19:39 <ynezz> LetoThe2nd: do you know off-hand if those boards have good Linux/Android support? (hardkernel)
Nov 30 11:20:18 <LetoThe2nd> ynezz: no idea at all. i can copy paste you their website if you wish ;)
Nov 30 11:20:22 <ynezz> :D
Nov 30 11:21:00 <koen> LetoThe2nd: white labels are 'custom' versions of community boards
Nov 30 11:21:20 <koen> LetoThe2nd: so you can ask for a xM with the high temperature range components
Nov 30 11:21:30 <LetoThe2nd> koen: ah ok
Nov 30 11:26:28 <koen> </shameless plug>
Nov 30 11:26:36 <LetoThe2nd> hm?
Nov 30 11:27:15 <ynezz> LetoThe2nd: and bone + nand is also possible? :)
Nov 30 11:27:20 <ynezz> ^ koen
Nov 30 11:27:54 <av500> ds2: NAND!!!!
Nov 30 11:28:05 <LetoThe2nd> i care for my data. can i have nor?
Nov 30 11:28:47 <ynezz> xor
Nov 30 11:30:52 <panto> back
Nov 30 11:31:10 <av500> NOR, pah, I want CORE
Nov 30 11:31:43 <ynezz> CORE's keygens?
Nov 30 11:36:46 <ynezz> LetoThe2nd: looks like another dust collector edition :) Linux version 2.6.27, U-Boot 1.3.4-svn (Oct 24 2009 - 22:16:25)
Nov 30 11:39:56 <koen> I think I still have a board with ppcboot
Nov 30 11:41:00 <ynezz> < 10 EUR board, anyone? http://olimex.wordpress.com/2012/11/30/a13-olinuxinio-micro-euro-28-open-source-single-board-computer-is-for-sale/
Nov 30 11:49:18 <LetoThe2nd> ynezz: not too convincing, but i'd still prefer it over a pi
Nov 30 11:57:21 <KotH> LetoThe2nd: it's an allwinner!
Nov 30 11:57:30 <KotH> LetoThe2nd: but that's about the board i'd like to have :)
Nov 30 11:57:41 <KotH> LetoThe2nd: maybe with 512mb instead of just 256
Nov 30 11:57:45 <LetoThe2nd> KotH: hrhrhr
Nov 30 12:03:51 <keesj> no PMIC juit great :P
Nov 30 12:05:52 <keesj> just
Nov 30 12:09:09 <KotH> LetoThe2nd: a general comment: if you do such a board, know with what you want to make money
Nov 30 12:09:34 <LetoThe2nd> KotH: i will not make such a board, no worries
Nov 30 12:10:38 <LetoThe2nd> KotH: i just have been asked about my and some general opinions.
Nov 30 12:13:15 <KotH> LetoThe2nd: damn!
Nov 30 12:13:35 <KotH> LetoThe2nd: and had gotten my hopes up, that we'd get one that would actually fit my needs!
Nov 30 12:14:11 <LetoThe2nd> KotH: do not despair. i obviously was aked for a reason. but i don't want to spill more, as its all very uncertain still.
Nov 30 12:17:04 * KotH despairs over spilled milk
Nov 30 12:18:49 <LetoThe2nd> KotH: i'll keep you in the loop if there's news.
Nov 30 12:39:14 <KotH> LetoThe2nd: thanks
Nov 30 12:39:21 * KotH is already rotating
Nov 30 12:48:53 * KotH calls for a JIHAD against infidel suppliers
Nov 30 12:50:12 <woglinde> koth haha
Nov 30 12:51:11 <mru> the supply of infidels seems unlimited
Nov 30 12:55:46 <av500> mru: with low birthrates its not unlimited but rather dwindling in the long term
Nov 30 12:56:23 <mru> don't spoil a perfectly good complaint with _facts_
Nov 30 12:57:45 <KotH> YAY! for the higher birth rates of imigrants!
Nov 30 13:07:29 <mdp> mru, http://26-26-54.hardwarebug.org/128 ?
Nov 30 13:11:09 <av500> lol: Bigger/Litter core
Nov 30 13:11:45 <woglinde> koth more JIHAD?
Nov 30 13:27:31 <KotH> woglinde: yes! until we get to the never ending JIHAD!
Nov 30 13:33:17 <mru> av500: someone said that?
Nov 30 13:44:44 <av500> mru: I just read it :)
Nov 30 13:45:13 <mru> where?
Nov 30 13:47:47 <av500> cannot say, not public
Nov 30 13:48:01 <av500> lets say non-western origin
Nov 30 13:48:24 <mru> obviously
Nov 30 13:49:41 <LetoThe2nd> hrhrhr
Nov 30 13:51:01 <woglinde> haha
Nov 30 13:51:32 <LetoThe2nd> mdp: ping
Nov 30 13:55:04 <av500> mru: it's so many, it basically littered with cores....
Nov 30 13:57:21 <mdp> LetoThe2nd: pong
Nov 30 13:58:13 <LetoThe2nd> mdp: care to share a little insight into your b6502 remoteproc implementation?
Nov 30 14:00:20 <mdp> in a nutshell, the 6502 ram is provided by the am335x…65xx bus cycles are decoded by the PRU to allow for R/W cycles to PRU-local SRAM space
Nov 30 14:00:52 <LetoThe2nd> mdp: basicall its just two things: https://github.com/ohporter/b6502 says i need the b6502remoteproc enabled kernel - where to find it?
Nov 30 14:01:31 <LetoThe2nd> mdp: and where is the pruss/b6502 rpmsg endpoint in code, if there is any?
Nov 30 14:01:32 <mdp> yeah, sec..I should put a link to the b6502 kernel branch too, will update that
Nov 30 14:01:46 <mdp> https://www.circuitlab.com/circuit/yp7s6c/b6502-rproc/ is the high-level circuit
Nov 30 14:02:51 <mdp> https://github.com/ohporter/linux/tree/WIP/bone-6502-remoteproc
Nov 30 14:03:10 <mdp> LetoThe2nd: there's no virtio support yet
Nov 30 14:04:02 <LetoThe2nd> mdp: ok, so how do you actually manage the communication in memory?
Nov 30 14:04:31 <LetoThe2nd> mdp: ah its the bvuart, right?
Nov 30 14:04:38 <mdp> so, I admit I ran out of time before ELC-E :)
Nov 30 14:04:57 <av500> mdp: we cant have that!
Nov 30 14:04:59 <mdp> and yeah, I just hacked up a quickee tty driver
Nov 30 14:05:00 <av500> try harder!
Nov 30 14:05:15 <LetoThe2nd> mdp: thanks, that will be enough to look into it.
Nov 30 14:05:16 <mdp> yes, work faster on my free software!
Nov 30 14:05:23 <av500> yes
Nov 30 14:05:27 <mdp> hehe
Nov 30 14:05:29 <av500> its free for us, not for you!
Nov 30 14:05:53 <LetoThe2nd> mdp: i just a first look at the rpmsg documentation of omap4, and its creepy (in terms of what you need to get even started)
Nov 30 14:05:54 <mdp> LetoThe2nd: yep, so be aware it's super-trivial, suboptimal, etc. but it worked for basic comm purposes
Nov 30 14:06:17 <LetoThe2nd> mdp: will absolutely suffice for now, no worries
Nov 30 14:06:27 <av500> LetoThe2nd: for basic rpmsg you need to "load" the code and implement the message passing, no?
Nov 30 14:06:41 <LetoThe2nd> av500: yeah
Nov 30 14:06:47 <mdp> LetoThe2nd: I'm looking at reworking virtio to be able to use genalloc pools of smaller than 4kB virt queues so I can use sram for virtio
Nov 30 14:07:09 <mdp> av500, rpmsg is built on virtio..so you have to be able to instantiate virt queues to make it work
Nov 30 14:07:13 <av500> mdp: ah right
Nov 30 14:07:29 <av500> its abstraction APIs all the way down :)
Nov 30 14:07:33 <mdp> yup
Nov 30 14:07:41 <mdp> and bloated buffers ;)
Nov 30 14:07:58 <av500> mdp: but you will find, in the end its all just electrons changing orbits
Nov 30 14:08:01 <LetoThe2nd> av500: its just that i still am looking for a virt queue implementation that does not depends on 3 magic packages to be downloaded from ti and run on top of sysbios
Nov 30 14:08:34 <av500> LetoThe2nd: cmon, a bit of sysbios can always help
Nov 30 14:09:04 <LetoThe2nd> av500: access denied.
Nov 30 14:09:07 <mdp> LetoThe2nd: there's the ste modem remoteproc upstream…that definitely requires no TI magic ;)
Nov 30 14:09:59 <LetoThe2nd> mdp: the kernel side is not the cryptic part, the firmware side is.
Nov 30 14:10:11 <mdp> LetoThe2nd: indeed
Nov 30 14:10:19 <mdp> except on b6502!
Nov 30 14:10:37 <LetoThe2nd> mdp: yep
Nov 30 14:11:14 <LetoThe2nd> mdp: thanks anyways, will continue reading then :)
Nov 30 14:16:43 <guido79> Hi, I've just entered the ssh shell of a beaglebone with can cape, but I can't figure out which peripheral device is to use to talk with it.
Nov 30 14:16:50 <guido79> There is no /dev/can0
Nov 30 14:17:36 <LetoThe2nd> modprobe moulinrouge
Nov 30 14:17:47 <LetoThe2nd> without moulinrouge.ko, no cancan ;)
Nov 30 14:18:16 <dm8tbr> yaaay It's friday! ;)
Nov 30 14:18:34 <woglinde> lol
Nov 30 14:18:50 <LetoThe2nd> dm8tbr: total friday.
Nov 30 14:19:01 <woglinde> that made my day
Nov 30 14:19:07 <guido79> Lol :)
Nov 30 14:19:24 <LetoThe2nd> dm8tbr: christmas market has started yesterday here ;)
Nov 30 14:20:26 <guido79> If I do cat /proc/net/dev I get a "can0" line, good news?
Nov 30 14:20:49 <guido79> So, modprobe can.ko ?
Nov 30 14:22:02 <woglinde> guido how did you use can bus under other distributions?
Nov 30 14:22:51 <guido79> In other cases, I've always got /dev/can0 without need to modprobe (both arm and pc environments...)
Nov 30 14:23:23 <woglinde> okay
Nov 30 14:24:19 <dm8tbr> LetoThe2nd: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kfVsfOSbJY0 - it's friiiidaaaay!
Nov 30 14:24:25 * LetoThe2nd suspects the module just not to be there on standard angstrom
Nov 30 14:26:49 <LetoThe2nd> dm8tbr: whoa... that sounds like corrupted ram in my audio workstation combined with some kindergarten dance and visuals.
Nov 30 14:26:52 <guido79> I see 4 modules: vcan.ko, slcan.ko, can-bcm.ko, can-gw.ko... Which is to modprobe?
Nov 30 14:27:55 <dm8tbr> LetoThe2nd: sounds about right :D
Nov 30 14:28:23 <guido79> uhm... slcan sounds like socketcan... I like it! Let's try... :(
Nov 30 14:29:10 <LetoThe2nd> dm8tbr: http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xsnizw_gary-moore-friday-on-my-mind_music
Nov 30 14:30:16 <dm8tbr> LetoThe2nd: gary moore <3
Nov 30 14:30:48 <LetoThe2nd> dm8tbr: yep
Nov 30 14:32:33 <guido79> vcan and slcan now show in lsmod, but no /dev/can0
Nov 30 14:32:46 <guido79> Am I missing something?
Nov 30 14:35:21 <dm8tbr> wild guess: maybe you need a different kernel?
Nov 30 14:35:32 <dm8tbr> is that kernel supposed to support CAN?
Nov 30 14:43:43 <mru> morning prpplague
Nov 30 14:43:57 <prpplague> mru: hey bud!
Nov 30 14:45:13 <av500> bud light?
Nov 30 14:45:28 <prpplague> av500: hehe
Nov 30 14:49:23 <LetoThe2nd> prpplague: howdy
Nov 30 14:49:30 <prpplague> LetoThe2nd: :)
Nov 30 14:55:36 <LetoThe2nd> prpplague: hows things over there?
Nov 30 14:56:23 <prpplague> empty
Nov 30 14:56:28 * prpplague is finishing packing
Nov 30 14:56:54 <LetoThe2nd> :-(
Nov 30 14:57:30 <mru> I've never put any personal stuff in the office
Nov 30 14:58:35 <mru> when I left nds I just deleted my ssh keys and walked out the door
Nov 30 15:02:51 * KotH did an rm -rf /
Nov 30 15:03:48 <LetoThe2nd> hehehe
Nov 30 15:06:08 <KotH> though, i should have copied all the data to my fileserver at home
Nov 30 15:06:20 <KotH> some of the stuff was interesting
Nov 30 15:09:50 <mru> KotH: I'm not that evil
Nov 30 15:10:04 <mru> besides, they hurried to delete all my data anyway
Nov 30 15:10:12 <mru> before realising there was stuff there they wanted to keep
Nov 30 15:10:16 <av500> :)
Nov 30 15:10:18 <KotH> lol
Nov 30 15:10:26 <KotH> mru: 1) i'm evil
Nov 30 15:10:36 <mru> better to let them do the damage
Nov 30 15:10:41 <KotH> mru: 2) all data they wanted to keep was in svn anyways
Nov 30 15:10:56 <KotH> mru: 3) even if they had my data, they wouldnt know how to use it
Nov 30 15:11:12 <mru> in theory everything was supposed to be in clearcase
Nov 30 15:11:16 <mru> but clearcase...
Nov 30 15:11:18 * KotH was the only guy there who actually had an understanding of linux, although 30 people were doing embedded linux development
Nov 30 15:12:38 <KotH> they were also quite shocked to find out, that all those nice books on linux interna and driver development, were actually owned by me, and left with me
Nov 30 15:12:59 <keesj> it's not the same here in NL. It's not like  you get fired on a moment's notice(to often) but I hope people will find their way
Nov 30 15:13:05 <KotH> but then again, they deserved it
Nov 30 15:13:49 <KotH> keesj: i already quit, i had another month to work, of which 3 weeks were military service and another week was left over vacations
Nov 30 15:14:29 <KotH> keesj: in 2 months, nobody was able to take over what i was doing... so.. SEP
Nov 30 15:16:01 <thurbad> if they've already paid you for the work done the data is theirs
Nov 30 15:16:35 <mru> doesn't mean they know what to do with it
Nov 30 15:16:52 <thurbad> putting yourself in a position where you're the only one that can work on something because of obfuscation is a good reason to get rid of you sooner than later
Nov 30 15:17:10 <mru> that's not what I meant
Nov 30 15:17:17 <KotH> thurbad: there was lots of stuff on that pc that came from my private collection of code and techniques. they didnt have any rights on that
Nov 30 15:17:18 <thurbad> now if you have expertise that is unmatched is something else
Nov 30 15:17:24 <mru> you might simply have been the only one _competent_ enough to work on the stuff
Nov 30 15:17:28 <KotH> thurbad: so, i am allowed to delete that stuff
Nov 30 15:17:46 <thurbad> mru that was aimed more af KotH 's statements
Nov 30 15:18:30 * KotH notes, that he has yet to work with someone who has equal skills in C or linux
Nov 30 15:19:09 <mdp> I can't find anybody with less skill in C than me
Nov 30 15:19:11 <thurbad> there's always someone out there better when you cast soch a big net
Nov 30 15:19:13 <KotH> but that could be because i mostly work in electronics development, where software skills are a lot lower
Nov 30 15:19:48 <KotH> thurbad: i'm not saying that i'm actually good at C or linux, just that the people i work with are far worse
Nov 30 15:20:02 <thurbad> heh
Nov 30 15:20:23 <KotH> and mind you, i know people who are good at that stuff, i just have never worked together with them
Nov 30 15:20:42 <mru> KotH: come work with me
Nov 30 15:20:54 * mdp senses a trap
Nov 30 15:20:57 <KotH> mru: i dont want to shatter my selfesteem
Nov 30 15:21:06 <thurbad> ... it's an akbar moment
Nov 30 15:21:29 <KotH> thurbad: a what?
Nov 30 15:21:36 <mru> allahu akbar!
Nov 30 15:21:41 <KotH> JIHAD!
Nov 30 15:21:42 <thurbad> admiral akbar... "It's a trap"
Nov 30 15:21:48 <KotH> ah..
Nov 30 15:22:18 <thurbad> star wars reference :P
Nov 30 15:22:53 <KotH> i erased all memories to star wars after it got mickey mousified
Nov 30 15:24:35 <mdp> that's KimPossible!
Nov 30 15:27:00 <thurbad> I lost faith in the force when it became metachloreans (sp?)
Nov 30 15:27:23 <mdp> your lack of faith is distubing
Nov 30 15:27:39 <mdp> hrm…distubing…that's like when the intertubes break down?
Nov 30 15:27:41 <thurbad> I actually have more faith in disney than lucas at this point
Nov 30 15:28:17 <thurbad> they've done fairly well by marvel lately
Nov 30 15:29:06 <av500> thurbad: did you realize the metachlolians are gone in episode 2 and 3?
Nov 30 15:29:17 <thurbad> ... too late
Nov 30 15:29:49 <thurbad> the virgin birth thing was lame too
Nov 30 16:15:56 <mranostay> morning my fellow linkedin trolls
Nov 30 16:17:44 <emeb_mac> linkedin - so annoying.
Nov 30 16:20:28 <mdp> I'm looking forward to the board game version of linkedin
Nov 30 16:20:48 * alan_o rolls his dice
Nov 30 16:20:58 <mdp> critical hit!
Nov 30 16:21:16 <mdp> linkedin: omapageddon expansion pack
Nov 30 16:21:41 <alan_o> you're given a manager job. lose a turn
Nov 30 16:22:20 <av500> lol
Nov 30 16:22:39 <mranostay> "you avoid the boss in the hall.. move one space
Nov 30 16:22:43 <mranostay> *avoided
Nov 30 16:34:06 <KotH> a wonderfull JIHAD to you too, mranostay
Nov 30 16:39:43 <joelagnel> mdp, omapocalypse edition
Nov 30 16:41:21 <mdp> alan_o, there's a lot of that going on here now ;)
Nov 30 16:41:32 <mdp> deck being shuffled
Nov 30 16:46:50 <alan_o> mdp: cutting engineers and just making them managers?
Nov 30 16:46:56 <alan_o> sounds like a large company
Nov 30 16:53:51 <alan_o> mdp: so is anyone being promoted to being your intern?
Nov 30 16:54:39 <mranostay> alan_o: that is promoted? :)
Nov 30 16:55:24 <alan_o> It must be for somebody :)
Nov 30 16:55:40 <mranostay> punk v2?
Nov 30 16:57:31 <mranostay> mdp: you may have to deal with IDE and big repos these days it seems :)
Nov 30 17:00:18 <mdp> alan_o, no dammit! no interns! ;)
Nov 30 17:00:30 <mdp> alan_o, apparently they will not ship an intern to ohio
Nov 30 17:01:31 <mdp> mranostay, I am trying to learn hot make tons of giant commits in repos on my own
Nov 30 17:01:36 <LetoThe2nd> mdp: for varying definitions of shipping, i guess
Nov 30 17:03:34 <mranostay> Friday BTW!
Nov 30 17:20:17 <Oat> new to beagleboard. any good docs available on /sys yet?
Nov 30 17:34:03 <KotH> Oat: check the webpage
Nov 30 17:34:08 <KotH> Oat: everything you need is up there
Nov 30 17:34:16 <KotH> Oat: everything else can be find using google
Nov 30 17:34:24 <KotH> found*
Nov 30 17:35:56 <tholm> I need to stop X11 in angstrom, how can i do that? /etc/init.d/gdm stop  -->> didnt work
Nov 30 17:39:15 <woglinde> tholm find out which wm you are using and which login manager
Nov 30 17:40:33 <tholm> what is the login manager by default?
Nov 30 17:45:15 <woglinde> gdm I think
Nov 30 17:45:29 <woglinde> but use ps -ef
Nov 30 17:45:32 <woglinde> ups ps
Nov 30 17:45:40 <woglinde> and you will see all process
Nov 30 17:49:33 <mru> getty went out of fashion?
Nov 30 17:51:33 <agmlego> getty is not a (graphical) login manager
Nov 30 17:52:09 <mru> yet it is what manages my terminals
Nov 30 17:53:27 <ds2> Urgent - need ark ASAP
Nov 30 17:53:28 <ds2> ;)
Nov 30 17:54:34 <KotH> there is one near ararat
Nov 30 17:54:39 <KotH> you just have to dig it out
Nov 30 17:54:48 <mru> allegedly
Nov 30 17:55:08 <ds2> doesn't meet the urgent criteria
Nov 30 17:55:18 <ds2> at the rate it is going, that one will probally float itself out
Nov 30 17:56:29 <KotH> use a heavy stone
Nov 30 17:56:33 <KotH> or something
Nov 30 17:56:40 <KotH> it'll help against the floating
Nov 30 17:57:26 <ds2> mru: isn't the water rapidly rising at your area too?
Nov 30 17:57:33 <ds2> or is the BBC inflating things again?
Nov 30 17:57:48 <mru> ds2: I'm on the coast
Nov 30 17:59:03 <ds2> mru: it is just the inland areas?
Nov 30 17:59:21 <ds2> the moors and peat bogs?
Nov 30 17:59:22 <mru> it takes more than a little rain to raise the ocean
Nov 30 17:59:37 <ds2> yes but the stuff inside got to flow out
Nov 30 18:01:09 <mru> yes, but from my immediate surroundings that's not a problem
Nov 30 18:01:23 <mru> don't know what it looks like further up the river
Nov 30 18:01:31 <ds2> ah
Nov 30 18:02:24 <agmlego> ds2: http://ark.intel.com
Nov 30 18:06:12 <mranostay> are trolls like witchs that they will not sink?
Nov 30 18:06:33 <dm8tbr> koen's rule #3
Nov 30 18:06:50 <agmlego> mranostay: Nice and dry up here in da UP.
Nov 30 18:07:13 <dm8tbr> nice and white outside my window
Nov 30 18:07:45 <agmlego> Yeah, we have around 4-6" on the ground right now.
Nov 30 18:07:51 <KotH> nice and black outside my window
Nov 30 18:08:05 <mru> btw, wtf is wrong with firefox 17?
Nov 30 18:08:11 <mru> resizing windows is totally fucked
Nov 30 18:08:39 <ds2> didn't we do away with resizeable windows?
Nov 30 18:08:41 <ds2> :D
Nov 30 18:08:50 <mru> yeah, apparently
Nov 30 18:09:26 <mru> if I try to resize with the mouse, it snaps to zero width or height
Nov 30 18:09:44 <mru> calling XResizeWindow() manually does work
Nov 30 18:12:36 <ds2> what WM?
Nov 30 18:12:44 <ds2> matchbox?
Nov 30 18:13:43 <mranostay> firefox 17? did i miss a few versions?
Nov 30 18:14:20 <djlewis> my ff is 3.6.17, rather old
Nov 30 18:15:38 <mru> ds2: what difference does it make what wm I use?
Nov 30 18:15:47 <mru> it's ff that's acting weird
Nov 30 18:20:01 <agmlego> mranostay: No, you just missed that FF is doing the Chrome thing and incrementing major for nearly every release.
Nov 30 18:21:26 <mranostay> Chrome seems to suck less imho
Nov 30 18:21:39 <mru> it sucks differently
Nov 30 18:21:48 <agmlego> All software sucks.
Nov 30 18:22:09 <mranostay> except PRU assembly.. right mdp ?
Nov 30 18:22:38 <Jaylen__> kloeri is gay
Nov 30 18:22:49 <agmlego> Why do we care?
Nov 30 18:23:04 <Jaylen__> because you are also
Nov 30 18:23:12 <mranostay> oh nice
Nov 30 18:23:20 <mru> any ops around?
Nov 30 18:23:27 <agmlego> Jaylen__: Yeah, and?
Nov 30 18:23:35 <mranostay> jkridner_: *ahem*
Nov 30 18:23:50 <jkridner_> hello?
Nov 30 18:23:56 <jkridner_> ah.
Nov 30 18:24:20 <Jaylen__> i like big nigger penis in my ass, especially kloeri's
Nov 30 18:24:31 <mru> jkridner_: ban him too
Nov 30 18:24:32 <mranostay> nice
Nov 30 18:24:34 <djlewis> thank you
Nov 30 18:24:38 <Russ> wtf…
Nov 30 18:24:53 <mru> Russ: some kid who thinks he's cool I guess
Nov 30 18:24:55 <Russ> disgruntled former employee?
Nov 30 18:25:17 <mru> it's tempting to ban the webchat
Nov 30 18:25:39 <jkridner_> did you see that he came from there? I never got a look at the info.
Nov 30 18:25:48 <agmlego> gateway/web/freenode/ip.68.200.187.37
Nov 30 18:25:50 <joelagnel> web/freenode
Nov 30 18:25:53 <agmlego> Yeah, webchat
Nov 30 18:25:56 * jkridner_ isn't all that familiar with blocking.
Nov 30 18:25:57 <jkridner_> k.
Nov 30 18:26:01 <jkridner_> :-/
Nov 30 18:26:17 <jkridner_> There is a lot of value to those new to Beagle to use the webchat.
Nov 30 18:26:31 <mru> maybe
Nov 30 18:26:34 <jkridner_> this doesn't happen very often at all.
Nov 30 18:26:41 <agmlego> There is, and spam is easily dealt with.
Nov 30 18:26:46 <mru> but the channel itself would be more valuable without some of those idiots
Nov 30 18:26:46 <dm8tbr> how many ops do we have here?
Nov 30 18:27:04 <agmlego> And, even if our own ops are not around, easy enough to get #freenode folk to deal with it.
Nov 30 18:27:08 <jkridner_> 2-3.
Nov 30 18:27:17 <mru> anyone incapable of running a proper irc client has no business using a beagle
Nov 30 18:27:23 <jkridner_> I think I gave _av500_ op.
Nov 30 18:27:42 <dm8tbr> let's hope he knows how to use it ;)
Nov 30 18:28:08 <djlewis> and graciously
Nov 30 18:28:13 <agmlego> mru: Well, then you exclude me in times when my IRC machine is unavailable.
Nov 30 18:28:27 <dm8tbr> mru: there is some value for web clients and blocking IP ranges in case of web clients works too
Nov 30 18:28:31 <jkridner_> I don't want to create an environment that is draconian.
Nov 30 18:28:48 <agmlego> ^^^
Nov 30 18:28:51 <jkridner_> when I'm behind the TI firewall, I often use the webchat.
Nov 30 18:28:57 <mru> dm8tbr: I wasn't seriously suggesting we should actually block them
Nov 30 18:29:09 <dm8tbr> ah, well trolled :)
Nov 30 18:29:11 <mru> but it sure would clean things up
Nov 30 18:29:20 <jkridner_> there are certainly some idiots that come in here.
Nov 30 18:29:31 * jkridner_ rushes to erase the entry in the log. ;-)
Nov 30 18:29:41 <mranostay> jkridner_: and some stay around :P
Nov 30 18:29:49 <jkridner_> I represent that remark!
Nov 30 18:29:55 <mru> I think we can safely say that guy you just kicked was an idiot
Nov 30 18:29:59 <jkridner_> node.js ftw!
Nov 30 18:30:14 <jkridner_> we could say a lot more about him.
Nov 30 18:30:25 <agmlego> Or we could ignore it and move on.
Nov 30 18:30:46 <mru> yeah, it's friday and all
Nov 30 18:31:18 <djlewis> then we too would sound like idiots, no?
Nov 30 18:31:52 <djlewis> movin on :)
Nov 30 18:32:22 <KotH> djlewis: nothing new there...i sound like an idiot most of the time
Nov 30 18:34:16 <mranostay> KotH: just most?
Nov 30 18:34:18 * mranostay ducks
Nov 30 18:35:31 <KotH> mranostay: well.. some times i sound like a complete idiot ;)
Nov 30 18:35:50 <mru> other times you completely sound like an idiot
Nov 30 18:36:52 * djlewis might feel like a bloomin idiot if he uses ENERGIA to program his msp430's
Nov 30 18:37:46 <djlewis> but then it looks like less time to results :)
Nov 30 18:37:46 <mru> how do you program a uc with a russian mega-rocket?
Nov 30 18:37:58 <djlewis> wow
Nov 30 18:38:56 <djlewis> just in case.. http://energia.nu/
Nov 30 18:39:05 <mru> did you mean .ru?
Nov 30 18:39:08 <mru> :)
Nov 30 18:39:45 <djlewis> it could be the controller they use
Nov 30 18:42:17 <KeatonT> wtf is that!
Nov 30 18:42:31 <KeatonT> a PDE for launchpad stuff?
Nov 30 18:42:33 <KeatonT> !!!
Nov 30 18:45:28 <djlewis> KeatonT: i take it you are opposed to such things?
Nov 30 18:45:37 <KeatonT> No I think it's great
Nov 30 18:45:38 <KeatonT> :)
Nov 30 18:51:04 <djlewis> making the led blink with the pde sure is more simple than the cryptic way presented thus far.
Nov 30 18:51:35 <mru> you're using partial differential equations to blink an led?
Nov 30 18:51:37 <mru> seems overkill
Nov 30 18:51:45 <djlewis> :)
Nov 30 18:52:01 <djlewis> striving for true randomness here.
Nov 30 18:52:48 <KeatonT> lol
Nov 30 18:53:21 <djlewis> mru: just wondering if that jerk a little while ago was terminated faster than you were on rpi
Nov 30 18:53:22 <KeatonT> well the PDE has the potential to bring the launchpad into the realm that arduino currently owns.
Nov 30 18:53:35 <mru> djlewis: no, he spoke before being banned
Nov 30 18:53:41 <djlewis> lol
Nov 30 18:53:47 * mranostay still has to do something useful with his launchpad
Nov 30 18:54:00 <mranostay> need to bitbang something
Nov 30 18:54:23 <djlewis> mranostay: I may yet be able to now.
Nov 30 18:54:44 <djlewis> Thinking on using it for my outdoor weather sensors.
Nov 30 18:54:59 <djlewis> My aging LaCrosse is on its last leg.
Nov 30 18:55:35 <djlewis> I am thinking on the bone for the inside smarts
Nov 30 18:55:47 <mranostay> have you read my slides? :)
Nov 30 18:56:00 <djlewis> ooh, you have slides :)
Nov 30 18:56:18 <mranostay> djlewis: from my presentation
Nov 30 18:56:18 <mru> djlewis: you should come to elc some time
Nov 30 18:56:37 <mru> it's just like #beagle but in real life
Nov 30 18:56:56 <mranostay> mru: don't scare him off
Nov 30 19:01:34 <djlewis> bring elc within 500 miles and I might :)
Nov 30 19:01:59 <mru> djlewis: why the fear of travelling?
Nov 30 19:02:14 <djlewis> No, I love to drive my car
Nov 30 19:02:50 <djlewis> I have a damaged eardrum and flying gets me in a "i'd rather bee dead than feel this pain" mode.
Nov 30 19:02:50 <mranostay> djlewis: i'm sure it will never be 500 miles from you :)
Nov 30 19:03:11 <mranostay> get some kickass painkillers
Nov 30 19:03:20 <djlewis> I can manage a single hop but two is a killer
Nov 30 19:03:31 <mru> I barely notice the pressure drop these days
Nov 30 19:04:02 <mranostay> only on short flights does my ears start to hurt
Nov 30 19:04:29 <mru> djlewis: pick some low-altitude turboprop flights :)
Nov 30 19:04:47 <mranostay> can you select "Turboprop" on orbitz?
Nov 30 19:04:53 <_av500_> yes
Nov 30 19:04:55 <_av500_> check "bus"
Nov 30 19:04:59 <mru> mranostay: that's probably more to do with the plane type than the distance
Nov 30 19:05:11 <mru> the smaller planes climb faster
Nov 30 19:05:30 <mranostay> ah good point
Nov 30 19:06:37 <mhaberler> why are there two community source trees for the kernel, the Robert Nelson work and the Koen Kooi tree? different sponsors?
Nov 30 19:06:46 <mranostay> heh
Nov 30 19:06:51 <djlewis> I begin feeling the pressure change in as little as 12 feet
Nov 30 19:06:56 <mru> don't know why, the thrust/weight ratio is about the same
Nov 30 19:07:00 <mranostay> there are quite more than two trees :)
Nov 30 19:07:20 <Russ> djlewis, buy a russian pressure suit on ebay
Nov 30 19:07:23 <djlewis> we could start a paper mill
Nov 30 19:07:27 <mranostay> mru: cabin pressurizer different?
Nov 30 19:07:51 <djlewis> Russ: ya think security would notice?
Nov 30 19:07:56 <Russ> na
Nov 30 19:08:13 <Russ> you'd miss out on inflight meals, but really, who cares
Nov 30 19:08:26 <djlewis> not me
Nov 30 19:08:33 <mranostay> i wouldn't call that missing out
Nov 30 19:08:34 <Russ> with liquids, "it's medicine" is the magic phrase for the TSA
Nov 30 19:08:41 <mranostay> esp if it is an american airline
Nov 30 19:09:06 <Russ> just tell them suit is for goat
Nov 30 19:09:07 <mranostay> Russ: i always take my big bottle of saline solution :)
Nov 30 19:09:35 <djlewis> i dont have a goat
Nov 30 19:09:48 <djlewis> is traveling with a goat more fun?
Nov 30 19:09:58 <Russ> (film reference)
Nov 30 19:10:11 * djlewis doesnt watch films or tv
Nov 30 19:11:14 <djlewis> those are someone elses reality
Nov 30 19:11:15 <mranostay> djlewis: middle of nowhere... doesn't watch tv.. you don't have a compound right? :)
Nov 30 19:11:32 <Russ> pro travel tip, hotel front desks give away micro usb cables and usb ac adapters
Nov 30 19:11:59 <djlewis> the Hotel 8?
Nov 30 19:12:14 <Russ> people leave so many behind
Nov 30 19:12:20 <Russ> or so many people leave them behind
Nov 30 19:12:40 <mranostay> Russ: kinda like the take a penny leave a penny only with usb cables?
Nov 30 19:12:47 <Russ> ya
Nov 30 19:12:58 * djlewis used to get sunglasses from the lost and found at college
Nov 30 19:13:16 <mranostay> heh nice
Nov 30 19:13:34 <mranostay> i always break a pair of sunglasses every year
Nov 30 19:14:18 <djlewis> now I like cheap sunglasses like Blues Brothers wore. Dollar Store
Nov 30 19:14:52 <mranostay> gah who does this... 4 space indents in a C file..
Nov 30 19:15:25 <djlewis> mranostay:  need more space?
Nov 30 19:15:30 <mru> better than mix of 4-space and tab
Nov 30 19:15:45 <mru> with the odd 6-space and 2-space+tab thrown in
Nov 30 19:16:02 <djlewis> worked on someones code where spaces took code off the page
Nov 30 19:16:23 <djlewis> lots of nesting
Nov 30 19:18:13 <mranostay> my coworker doesn't like tabs and uses the 8 spaces and he also thinks the 80 character line limit is 'silly'
Nov 30 19:19:53 <mru> quote linus at him
Nov 30 19:20:38 <alan_o_> mranostay: no coding standards at your work?
Nov 30 19:20:49 <djlewis> the over zealous use of for next
Nov 30 19:20:54 <mranostay> i'm not commenting here :)
Nov 30 19:23:46 <mranostay> mru: he claims it is outdated since nobody has a 80 column screen anymore
Nov 30 19:24:04 <mru> that's a flawed argument
Nov 30 19:24:15 <mranostay> yes i know
Nov 30 19:24:19 <alan_o> many agree to that though
Nov 30 19:24:26 <panto> http://arstechnica.com/science/2012/11/nand-flash-gets-baked-lives-longer/
Nov 30 19:24:26 <alan_o> some argue that maybe 120 is more appropriate
Nov 30 19:24:33 <mranostay> alan_o: well they are wrong :)
Nov 30 19:24:40 <alan_o> mranostay: maybe :)
Nov 30 19:24:50 <mru> the only other acceptable width is 132
Nov 30 19:25:00 * panto admits that 80 columns are the standard, but slightly longer might be ok
Nov 30 19:25:07 <alan_o> What's 132 map to?
Nov 30 19:25:30 <mru> some ancient terminal had a 132-column mode
Nov 30 19:26:03 <mru> but what the screen looks like is really not what matters
Nov 30 19:26:04 <alan_o> My Apple ][ was 40, unless you had the 80 column expansion card. 80 cols felt _tiny_
Nov 30 19:26:24 <mru> if you need longer lines, your code is poorly designed
Nov 30 19:26:47 <alan_o> That's somewhat of an over-generalization.
Nov 30 19:26:55 <mru> there are exceptions, yes
Nov 30 19:27:02 <mru> but by and large it's true
Nov 30 19:27:28 <mranostay> mru: long lines produce the tempation to nest
Nov 30 19:27:35 <alan_o> It's hard to convince people with "you're doing it wrong" arguments though.
Nov 30 19:27:42 <mru> mranostay: yes, that's one problem
Nov 30 19:27:53 <mru> or generally write incredibly over-complicated expressions
Nov 30 19:28:04 <mru> splitting things up a bit usually makes it easier to follow
Nov 30 19:28:56 <ds2> mru: wm's do funny things with resize
Nov 30 19:29:04 <ds2> they try to enforce a theme
Nov 30 19:29:09 <mru> not mine
Nov 30 19:29:24 <ds2> which is that?
Nov 30 19:29:27 <mru> sawfish
Nov 30 19:30:05 <ds2> who uses the xresources, the client or the server/wm?
Nov 30 19:30:24 <mru> client
Nov 30 19:30:40 <mru> they are stored on the server though
Nov 30 19:30:51 <ds2> yes, hence the confusion
Nov 30 19:31:07 <mru> the idea being you can have per-display settings for clients
Nov 30 19:31:24 <alan_o> mru: whoa... haven't heard about sawfish in a while.
Nov 30 19:31:34 <mru> without the need for complex logic in the client
Nov 30 19:33:27 <djlewis> mranostay: and many web dev's are using the wide screen page :P
Nov 30 19:34:14 <alan_o> mru: I had forgotten that it was lisp (or lisp-like or whatever). rep-gtk.... I was mostly hacked off that gnome moved from e to sawfish when they did. It had _much_ less functionality than e, but I got the feeling that the gnome people thought they could control it better.
Nov 30 19:35:00 <mru> then they realised it was infinitely customisable
Nov 30 19:35:05 <mru> and ditched it in a hurry
Nov 30 19:36:50 <alan_o> mru: http://images.wikia.com/sawfish/images/b/b5/Screenshot_003.jpg    oh yeah.....
Nov 30 19:37:20 <panto> TGIF & beer
Nov 30 19:37:22 <panto> cya
Nov 30 19:37:26 <alan_o> later panto!
Nov 30 19:37:34 <mru> alan_o: that's just a taste of it
Nov 30 19:38:05 <mru> you can do pretty much anything with lisp extensions
Nov 30 19:39:27 <mranostay> wb Tartarus !
Nov 30 19:39:42 <Tartarus> silly znc does not like it when I switch wifi networks
Nov 30 19:39:53 <ds2> except for repairing your '(' and ')' keys
Nov 30 19:41:39 <mru> another clueless rpi user: http://article.gmane.org/gmane.comp.video.libav.devel/39101
Nov 30 19:43:01 <ds2> mru: maybe there is undocumented hardware to make that possible
Nov 30 19:43:09 <ds2> you can never tell with that hw
Nov 30 19:46:13 <mdp> mru, it's time to start highlighting the genius rpi users
Nov 30 19:46:19 <mdp> save us all effort
Nov 30 19:52:33 <mranostay> mru: clueless isn't needed when talking about the RPI
Nov 30 19:53:38 <mranostay> ds2: you will never know either
Nov 30 20:06:34 <alan_o> mru: (re sawfish pic) yeah no doubt. They had a lot of better pics.
Nov 30 20:07:00 <mru> there's one screenshot where all the windows have different styling
Nov 30 20:08:03 <alan_o> mru: can't just recompile libav to use hardware acceleration? Must be a compiler switch for that somewhere...
Nov 30 20:08:21 <alan_o> just compile it for the GPU.. done.
Nov 30 20:09:02 <mru> hmm, I found something re ff window size
Nov 30 20:09:17 <mru> > (window-size-hints (get-window-by-id 0x560007e))
Nov 30 20:09:17 <mru> ((window-gravity . north-west) (max-width . 0) (max-height . 0) (min-width . 18) (min-height . 79))
Nov 30 20:09:32 <mru> yes! the wm has a command line interface
Nov 30 20:10:56 <mru> oddly, xwininfo reports max width/height as 1073741824
Nov 30 20:15:53 <ds2> you have a mighty large display there
Nov 30 20:16:02 <mru> that's the max window size
Nov 30 20:16:08 <mru> nothing to do with the display
Nov 30 20:16:08 <mranostay> that is what she said as well
Nov 30 20:33:16 <mru> hah, found the problem
Nov 30 20:33:52 <mru> that insane max size overflows some calculations
Nov 30 21:27:33 <Russ> djlewis, happened upon this at random 'the (787) cabin is pressurized to a maximum level of 6,000 feet (2,000 feet lower than most other planes)'
Nov 30 21:28:33 <djlewis> back to the russian suit
Nov 30 21:46:45 <_av500_> in soviet russia suits you
Nov 30 21:47:22 <xenome> are there any real performance differences between the angstrom distribution that ships with the BBxm vs Ubuntu 12.10?
Nov 30 21:47:37 <mru> try and find out
Nov 30 21:49:12 <_av500_> define performance
Nov 30 21:49:27 <_av500_> cursor blinks about the same speed
Nov 30 21:51:22 <xenome> does ubuntu install the accelerated drivers out of the box with 12.10?
Nov 30 22:38:04 <mranostay> _av500_: i think angstrom blinks a little faster
Nov 30 22:42:33 <mru> is it faster or is it just a different duty cycle?
Nov 30 22:43:48 <Crofton> mru, you live in Southhampton?
Nov 30 22:43:52 <mru> yes
Nov 30 22:43:58 <mru> well, southampton
Nov 30 22:44:03 <Crofton> http://blog.ordnancesurvey.co.uk/2010/11/mapping-the-southampton-blitz-70-years-on/
Nov 30 22:44:06 <mru> there's only one h dammit
Nov 30 22:45:53 <mru> Crofton: the markers on that map correspond closely with ugly, post-war buildings...
Nov 30 22:56:57 <mranostay> mru: double the h double the fun?
Nov 30 22:58:36 <Russ> hooray for step 1 http://pastebin.com/9d11eFS5
Nov 30 22:58:51 <mru> exact step?
Nov 30 22:59:15 <Russ> yes, now if you could please give me the remaining exact steps so I don't have to do any actual work, that'd be great
Nov 30 23:02:04 <ds2> exact steps are only provided for the gallows product.
Nov 30 23:27:54 <sander> Anyone know a good place to start with visual odometry using opencv on BBXM revC ?
Dec 01 01:17:55 * ds2 screams bloody murder...@#$@%R#@%%$#@%@%#@$#@@#@#$@#$ search engines
Dec 01 01:18:09 <ds2> search for 'android property' and it returns hits on android home... wtf
Dec 01 01:18:23 <ds2> someone needs a serious smacking around
Dec 01 01:18:31 <mru> try quotes
Dec 01 01:19:17 <ds2> there is no damn reason for that
Dec 01 01:19:35 <ds2> and this isn't the first time
Dec 01 01:26:42 <Russ> verbatim
Dec 01 01:27:46 <ds2> I know what it means and how to get it to work. There is just no such reason for such shannigans
Dec 01 01:27:50 <mranostay> someone seems a beer
Dec 01 01:28:06 <mranostay> *needs
Dec 01 01:29:34 <Russ> search tools, all results, verbatim
Dec 01 01:29:43 <Russ> pita
Dec 01 01:31:38 <ds2> this just makes it totally useless crap
Dec 01 01:32:08 <Russ> you have to picture the 99% of the google market share
Dec 01 01:32:23 <mru> sometimes the fuzzy search is useful
Dec 01 01:32:25 <Russ> a) can't spell, b) put a bunch of useless words in along with the search terms
Dec 01 01:33:03 <ds2> it is bad enough their database is polluted
Dec 01 01:33:17 <ds2> to get useful results, most of the time you have to put in like 30 different -...... things
Dec 01 01:33:27 <ds2> now they are corrupting the meaning of what you are asking
Dec 01 01:33:38 <ds2> if 99% of the market share are morons, then stop serving them.
Dec 01 01:33:39 <Russ> verbatim
Dec 01 01:33:48 <Russ> non-moron mode
Dec 01 01:34:02 <Russ> I really wish there was a cookie for it
Dec 01 01:34:07 <mru> ds2: just put the troublesome word in ""
Dec 01 01:34:18 <ds2> mru: it usually does it on every word
Dec 01 01:34:34 <Russ> http://img.thedailywtf.com/images/12/q4/e40/pic04.png
Dec 01 01:34:40 <ds2> so to get a meaningful search, you got search 10 times
Dec 01 01:35:09 <mru> Russ: works now: http://www.ti.com/lsds/ti/logic/little-logic-products.page
Dec 01 02:21:22 <nobdoor> noob question - my XM serial port transmits on /dev/ttyS2, but cannot receive, because of console conflicts, I think
Dec 01 02:21:39 <nobdoor> I'm trying to communicate with an external serial device (using Angstrom)
Dec 01 02:22:12 <nobdoor> how can I decouple my serial port from the console, so I can have a dedicated tty device for my serial port?
Dec 01 02:30:15 <W1N9Zr0> edit uenv.txt
Dec 01 02:38:11 <nobdoor> Is this file = to uImage?  Having trouble finding uenv.txt
Dec 01 02:39:07 <W1N9Zr0> if your uboot is too old, it's boot.scr instead of uenv.txt, google around how to edit that
Dec 01 02:45:55 <nobdoor> Thanks, I'll keep digging.  I received the XM a few weeks ago so I'm assuming that I'm running a relatively modern OS
Dec 01 02:48:08 <nobdoor> I have to say that I feel nervous changing startup variables.  Most search results I see say that the DB9 port is mapped to ttyO#, whereas mine is mapped to ttyS2
Dec 01 02:48:57 <mru> you must be using an old kernel
Dec 01 02:49:05 <nobdoor> I'm uneasy that I might break my system by trying to enable the serial port
Dec 01 02:49:21 <nobdoor> kernel is 2.6.32 (?)
Dec 01 02:49:30 <mru> or one built with the standard 16550 uart driver instead of the omap enhanced one
Dec 01 02:49:47 <mru> that's rather ancient
Dec 01 02:50:18 <mru> if it works, there's no harm in sticking with it though
Dec 01 02:51:40 <nobdoor> interesting.  which kernel do you reccomend?
Dec 01 02:51:57 <mru> one that works for you
Dec 01 02:52:04 <nobdoor> lol indeed
Dec 01 02:52:17 <mru> I'm running 2.6.32 on a few beagles
Dec 01 02:52:39 <mru> if it ain't broke, don't fix it
Dec 01 02:52:45 <nobdoor> are you using the db9 on them?
Dec 01 02:53:49 <mru> the serial console is ttyS2 with that kernel
Dec 01 02:53:59 <nobdoor> I haven't been able to find my problem on forums yet.  Picocom crashes when it receives messages
Dec 01 02:54:16 <nobdoor> yes that is correct.  I think the console uses ttyS2 as well, causing a conflict
Dec 01 02:54:26 <mru> so disable it
Dec 01 02:54:48 <nobdoor> could this disable my console?
Dec 01 02:55:27 <mru> if you need the serial port for something else, drop the console=ttyS2 kernel param
Dec 01 02:55:43 <mru> and disable the getty for it
Dec 01 02:56:34 <nobdoor> would you reccomend redirecting it, maybe to ttyS1?
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Sat Dec 01 02:59:58 2012