**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Dec 21 02:59:59 2012 Dec 21 04:03:01 oh nice police helicopters over my apartment Dec 21 04:03:12 * mranostay gets beer and watchs Dec 21 04:04:18 they are comign to get you Dec 21 04:05:00 they are not actually the police Dec 21 04:05:02 they are mayans Dec 21 04:05:03 yeah i doubt that Dec 21 04:05:55 today i am thankful for the hundreds of people who have gone before me, sorting out all of the issues that i've faced Dec 21 04:06:03 you can just abuot acehive anything these days with google Dec 21 04:14:08 is it like office space? with the paper thin walls and the too much information neighbor? Dec 21 04:25:52 Russ: headphones man they are priceless Dec 21 04:29:06 there should be a law if you can open an account online you should be able to close it online Dec 21 05:11:59 ah... the silence... it must be true... EU has ended Dec 21 05:13:05 ds2: still here on East Coast Dec 21 05:13:14 13 minutes in Dec 21 05:13:18 even stopped rainging Dec 21 05:13:22 raining Dec 21 05:13:33 probally a lingering side effect before the void completes Dec 21 05:13:44 besides, that is time zone time, not true sidreal time Dec 21 05:14:05 That's true, I've got a few more minutes Dec 21 05:15:55 maybe more. It appears sidreal time isn't what I thought.... Dec 21 05:18:13 ok, bed time for me. Let me know in the morning if the world ended. Dec 21 05:30:17 wimp Dec 21 05:31:27 lol Dec 21 06:58:03 * mranostay yawns! Dec 21 07:02:38 have another beer Dec 21 07:03:24 screen is scrolling slightly.. Dec 21 07:03:37 time to write PRU assembly! Dec 21 07:03:44 * mranostay pokes mdp Dec 21 07:32:05 av500: hey weirdo :P Dec 21 07:32:23 seems i may fly to german in the near future Dec 21 07:52:10 nice my vfd bare displays shipped :) Dec 21 07:52:31 koen: you can totally do pong in a pru on these :) Dec 21 10:28:05 av500: http://www.healthmetricsandevaluation.org/tools/data-visualization/cause-death-trends-united-states-and-australia-1970-2006#/overview/explore Dec 21 10:28:15 av500: "gang shootings" ;-) Dec 21 10:40:05 koth Dec 21 10:40:32 woglinde Dec 21 11:28:24 hi all Dec 21 11:28:34 güezi Dec 21 11:29:02 can any biody tell me how to execute tasklet? Dec 21 11:47:50 hey Dec 21 11:52:27 panto gm Dec 21 11:52:30 tasklet? Dec 21 12:00:24 hello, how to know what is te revision of my beagleboard ? Dec 21 12:01:14 software package i'm using works only with revision C and i don't know how check this Dec 21 12:13:45 KotH: so in the US, suicide is as probably as homicide Dec 21 12:13:50 probable Dec 21 12:15:29 also the US has a poisoning problem Dec 21 12:15:36 despite all the warning labels Dec 21 12:17:45 or is that "drugs"? Dec 21 15:07:29 woglinde: here's something you'll like: Dec 21 15:07:37 woglinde: autotools, but no makefile.* Dec 21 15:07:46 woglinde: instead a custom ruby based system Dec 21 15:07:55 of course written by germans Dec 21 15:10:22 at least it's not scons Dec 21 15:12:29 koen, wtf? Dec 21 15:15:55 panto: indeed Dec 21 15:15:59 mkvtoolnix Dec 21 15:16:06 oh.. Dec 21 15:16:10 I'm afraid to google this Dec 21 15:16:28 koen: when did moritz switch from auto* to something self build? Dec 21 15:17:05 koen: but then, it's the unholy marriage of mplayer and mkv... horrible design with insane overengineering and NIH Dec 21 15:17:14 KotH: it's autotools + self built Dec 21 15:17:22 autotools generates the ruby stuff Dec 21 15:17:27 koen: it used to be auto* only Dec 21 15:17:29 why? god why? Dec 21 15:17:31 10 years ago or so Dec 21 15:18:25 libmatroska is crazy as well Dec 21 15:18:33 it supports CROSS= Dec 21 15:18:37 but not DESTDIR Dec 21 15:19:01 libmatroksa is insane Dec 21 15:19:24 mplayers complete reimplementation of it is one tenth of the size of libmatroska Dec 21 15:19:59 ideally I'd use avconv to reencode the video stream and leave the rest alone Dec 21 15:20:14 but the internet is telling me not to use avconv, but $somethingelse Dec 21 15:20:29 why not? Dec 21 15:20:38 the internet can't agree on what $somethingelse is Dec 21 15:20:57 * KotH doesnt trust the internet Dec 21 15:21:09 it was wrong on the end of the world thing! Dec 21 15:21:34 in the holidays I can sit down and see if avconv does what I need Dec 21 15:22:15 what do you want to do? Dec 21 15:22:18 I know it can do the important part: 1080i -> 720p Dec 21 15:22:31 koen hoily shit Dec 21 15:22:32 I have tvheadend record DVB-C into .mkv with metadata Dec 21 15:22:51 avconv can do that Dec 21 15:22:54 I want the 1080i streams converted, but keep mkv metadata, subs and audio Dec 21 15:23:15 maybe you have to do the metadata stuff by hand Dec 21 15:23:18 but that should be easy Dec 21 15:23:32 in the worst case, you have to write a small app using libav Dec 21 15:23:49 but that shouldnt be much of a problem using avconv as an example Dec 21 15:23:55 right Dec 21 15:24:16 koen, betcha can't make an motd with your 5 latest recorded shows displayed Dec 21 15:24:17 * koen heads to xmas party to get drunk and forget about ruby Dec 21 15:24:56 koen havr fun Dec 21 15:25:04 koen: have fun Dec 21 15:25:06 friday...party Dec 21 15:25:08 cya koen Dec 21 15:25:17 ruby as build system Dec 21 15:25:21 my my Dec 21 15:26:00 woglinde: it could be worse Dec 21 15:26:03 woglinde: it could be python Dec 21 15:26:12 but python, is ok, of course Dec 21 15:26:19 o_0 Dec 21 15:26:21 no it's not Dec 21 15:26:32 it's like android Dec 21 15:26:44 it's shipping in enough quantity that it must be doing something right Dec 21 15:26:45 cya koen ! Dec 21 15:27:29 mdp: python in itself is a fine language Dec 21 15:27:37 mdp: python as a system is a nightmare Dec 21 15:27:42 :) Dec 21 15:27:53 like Ada95 :) Dec 21 15:27:56 mdp: have you ever had to deal with some python software? Dec 21 15:28:16 yes, unfortunately, I've had to deal with pretty much everything, it seems :) Dec 21 15:29:04 mdp: delpoying python software that is not packaged by your distribution (which is most of it) often means to use a separate VM for it, as otherwise you cannot handle updates or other python stuff that might be using the same packages but at slightly different versions at all Dec 21 15:29:25 even php code is better written than that Dec 21 15:29:28 of course Dec 21 15:29:38 its like shipping with system DLLs in windows Dec 21 15:29:52 in fact, even commercial linux SW sometimes ships with libc Dec 21 15:30:05 and all the other needed libs Dec 21 15:30:06 av500: yes, but with one important difference: pyhton wants to be installed in global paths Dec 21 15:30:24 av500: installing it in different paths is very tedious Dec 21 15:30:27 if not outright impossible Dec 21 15:30:38 ok Dec 21 15:30:52 * mdp notes that Ada2012 is available now. Dec 21 15:31:16 mdp: i dont know ada... but i've heard that its vhdl is quite similar to it Dec 21 15:31:25 mdp: and considering that i like vhdl very much ;) Dec 21 15:31:38 KotH: yes, the syntax is taken from Ada Dec 21 15:34:32 and basically the strong typing, packages stuff..then they added all the h/w description specifics Dec 21 15:35:12 when I first had to learn Ada I did a "WTF?!?" since I had vhdl in school. ;) Dec 21 15:35:26 deja vu Dec 21 15:35:54 hehe Dec 21 15:36:00 maybe i should have a look at ada then Dec 21 15:36:13 it's mostly impractical to use IMHO Dec 21 15:36:31 i nearly did a couple of years back.. had some problems with ghdl (a vhdl simulator written in ada), but didnt dive into the code Dec 21 15:37:09 which is why the .us DoD was already giving 99.9% of projects exceptions to use mainstream languages like C on projects back in '95. Dec 21 15:37:12 koth we have scons which is python Dec 21 15:37:22 but mixing autotools with ruby is perverted Dec 21 15:37:31 and has pretty much stayed that way since overall costs for s/w went down since they did that Dec 21 15:38:24 hehe Dec 21 15:38:40 woglinde: anything with autotools is perverted ;) Dec 21 15:38:46 o.O Dec 21 15:38:59 koth yes o invent your own buildsystem Dec 21 15:39:02 +go Dec 21 15:39:12 * KotH points at libav Dec 21 15:39:44 koth the libav buildsystem is yours? Dec 21 15:40:19 woglinde: a buildsystem where it is virtually impossible to debug why it doesnt work, and that fails if the user has not exactly the same version of the tools down to the subsubsubsubsubminor version number as the developer does is fucking insane Dec 21 15:40:39 woglinde: no, it's mostly mru's Dec 21 15:40:46 koth? Dec 21 15:41:04 seems you did not read the docu Dec 21 15:41:22 woglinde: 99% of the compile problems i have with oss applications are autoshit problems Dec 21 15:41:29 like a lot of people using it Dec 21 15:41:52 woglinde: and i've read its docu, a thousand times over.. but still am not able to figure out what's wrong when something goes wrong Dec 21 15:42:00 koth i have it the other way Dec 21 15:42:18 woglinde: so in the end i just try to figure out what version of the tools the developer used, then download exactly that version and hope it works Dec 21 15:42:24 90 of all shiutty projects uses hand made makefiles Dec 21 15:42:26 woglinde: if it doesnt, i throw it away Dec 21 15:42:35 with no croisscompile support Dec 21 15:42:47 woglinde: i hardly do cross compilation ;) Dec 21 15:42:57 woglinde: and i can fix makefiles w/o trouble Dec 21 15:43:07 thats your problem Dec 21 15:43:15 hand written makefiles are easy to understand Dec 21 15:43:25 autoshit written makefiles are binary blobs Dec 21 15:43:34 not for me Dec 21 15:44:06 then you should read the make docu for once ;) Dec 21 15:45:00 I did and I find it easier to run autoscan and write an simple Makefile.am Dec 21 15:46:28 but at work I am writing mostly pom.xml files Dec 21 15:46:33 ;) Dec 21 15:47:58 woglinde: xml? Dec 21 15:48:03 * KotH shudders Dec 21 15:48:16 why not a human readable format? Dec 21 15:48:37 I know, I know..we don't care about humans any longer Dec 21 15:50:47 mdp: it's only a matter of time, until someone at google thinks it would be a good idea if all android phones would build a peer to peer network for information exchange Dec 21 15:51:12 mdp: due to it's imense size, it would be probably a matter of seconds until this network would be come sentinent Dec 21 15:51:23 lol, I just typed "gti" accidentally for the first time since I install gti ;) Dec 21 15:51:28 what a great day Dec 21 15:51:40 good Dec 21 15:51:46 now add init Dec 21 15:52:04 well, it was a gti status Dec 21 15:52:26 but it's definitely funnier after you forget about it and it's still installed Dec 21 15:52:45 oh gti not git Dec 21 15:52:46 sl is one of my favorites still Dec 21 15:53:07 i only kno golf gti Dec 21 15:53:07 yeah, it's a pleasant way to mock oneself Dec 21 15:53:23 that's what it is? Dec 21 15:53:35 oh, here: http://r-wos.org/hacks/gti Dec 21 15:54:13 s/?// Dec 21 15:54:20 wasn't really a question :) Dec 21 16:05:33 * KotH makes a note to install that on his collegues computers Dec 21 16:10:58 KotH: I recommend sl too Dec 21 16:12:39 mdp: i'm the only one here who doesnt use a gui file browser Dec 21 16:14:50 * mdp supposed sl-gtk wouldn't work :-/ Dec 21 16:14:58 s/supposed/supposes/ Dec 21 16:17:53 morning trolls Dec 21 16:18:03 no trolls here Dec 21 16:18:31 all in their bunkers awaiting the end of the world Dec 21 16:19:15 moin mranostay, prpplague, alan_o Dec 21 16:19:30 alan_o: about gang shootings: http://www.healthmetricsandevaluation.org/tools/data-visualization/cause-death-trends-united-states-and-australia-1970-2006#/overview/explore Dec 21 16:20:50 interesting that poisoning is on the increase Dec 21 16:21:27 KotH: we speak american here :) Dec 21 16:24:26 * emeb recalls lots of ostfriesland jokes from his youth Dec 21 16:33:25 Hi KotH Dec 21 16:36:08 Does that really mean there's a 15% chance I'm going to die before I'm 60? Dec 21 16:36:12 or am I reading that wrong? Dec 21 16:36:31 Well, if I were 15 Dec 21 16:36:58 seeing as that I've already beaten 16 years of that, it'd be lower than that. Dec 21 16:37:01 Even so. Dec 21 16:37:04 Seems really high Dec 21 16:53:09 alan_o: yes, if you were 156 Dec 21 16:53:10 alan_o: yes, if you were 15 Dec 21 16:53:23 the poison rate struck me as high Dec 21 16:53:26 unless that is also drugs Dec 21 17:00:02 av500: so I don't believe that 1/6 of all the people I knew when I was 15 will be dead by 60. Dec 21 17:00:14 doesn't seem right Dec 21 17:00:22 I mean 1/6 of all the other 15 year olds. Dec 21 17:00:45 poison doesn't show up on the US chart, so probably not drugs Dec 21 17:02:45 So is the point of this chart to show that the 15-60 mortality rate is double in the US than in Australia, and then half for women than it is for men? Dec 21 17:02:53 What is to account for the difference between women and men? Dec 21 17:03:43 alan_o: poison is in us charts Dec 21 17:04:02 filter injuries Dec 21 17:04:14 poison is totally on the rise Dec 21 17:04:31 I see it now. It doesn't label on the main chart because it's so low Dec 21 17:04:36 yes Dec 21 17:04:45 cancer is about the same Dec 21 17:04:52 heart attack stuff in higher in the US Dec 21 17:05:01 and all the injuries Dec 21 17:05:22 So I'd like to see what those categories mean, an actual more-than-one-word description Dec 21 17:05:31 sure Dec 21 17:05:55 but then it would not fit a neat infographic :) Dec 21 17:06:02 guys, start studying demography ans statistics Dec 21 17:06:19 av500: hehe Dec 21 17:06:26 before plotting graphs ;) Dec 21 17:06:39 ant_work: it's someone else's graph, we're trying to read it Dec 21 17:07:01 yes, iirc all started with that carnage Dec 21 17:07:27 I mean, the mania for stats :) Dec 21 17:07:31 irc isn't related to carnage :) Dec 21 17:08:04 dang it, smiley face was an accident..... One day I'll learn how to troll properly. Now I just look like I'm making bad jokes :( Dec 21 17:08:17 a reflex really.... Dec 21 17:08:24 ant_work: you mean the CT shooting? Dec 21 17:08:24 I think we did not offend anyone Dec 21 17:08:59 I don't think there'a a mania for stats now that wasn't there a week ago Dec 21 17:11:14 I assume "transport" means car accidents and the like Dec 21 17:15:33 alan_o: yes Dec 21 17:15:55 though I dont know if falling of a kangaroo counts in australia Dec 21 17:15:59 off a* Dec 21 17:17:05 climbing on a kangaroo is more likely to be fatal - those suckers are vicious. Dec 21 17:24:12 alan_o: i find it more astonishing that death rates are not decreasing in the us, since late 90s Dec 21 17:24:57 alan_o: differences can have a lot of sources, be it environmental, cultural or whatever. but a stagnation in life expectancy is weird... Dec 21 17:29:30 I wonder how much of it is a data availability issue. Dec 21 17:29:51 erm... Dec 21 17:30:24 if you said that about data of the 70s or 80s, i couldnt argue much, but about the last two decades? sorry, but the us is not a african backwater country Dec 21 17:30:34 Poisoning comes up 1%, and at the end of it, there's an uptick in posioning, and everything above that bumps up (in y position) by that exact same amount, as if those were exactly the same Dec 21 17:30:57 yeah, but you've seen reports before where it says the last data available was 4 years old. Dec 21 17:31:19 there's data existing, and then there's data published that can be used in research/compilation Dec 21 17:31:19 that's probably chaning of statistics... that's why i dont give much about the individual items, but rather groubs of items Dec 21 17:31:24 that tends to be more reliable Dec 21 17:31:52 usually, any modern country provides the available statistical data they have for research Dec 21 17:32:14 unless you live in a african backwater country, you can also assume that the data is somewhat sane Dec 21 17:32:20 what do you mean about any modern country? Who? The government? Dec 21 17:32:30 if it isnt, i would seriously consider emigrating Dec 21 17:32:40 yes, the government Dec 21 17:32:55 there are certain things i expect from a half way decent country Dec 21 17:33:17 Well, I'm not a statistician, but it seems like most reports I see have data that's several years old, and it's footnoted that it's the latest available. Dec 21 17:33:23 and one of them is reliable statistical data of the population of the last 50 years Dec 21 17:34:20 Data doesn't just magically compile itself. How would you get data about cause of death in the united states, which is a big place, and has all that kind of data tracked at the state and local level, maybe even using different categorizations each. Dec 21 17:34:51 It takes a lot of work. Getting data from each state, and maybe each locale, depending on how that state is run with respect to cause of death, etc. Dec 21 17:34:57 how would you get said data in any country? by collecting it of course Dec 21 17:35:15 it doesnt matter how big your country is, collecting the data is about the same difficulty Dec 21 17:35:19 yes, but someone has to collect it, and I contend it's harder to collect in the US. Dec 21 17:35:22 I disagree completely Dec 21 17:35:23 in big countries you just have more people doing the collection Dec 21 17:35:34 and more money spent on it. Dec 21 17:35:47 but you have overproprtionally more money available Dec 21 17:36:37 in a European country with a more centralized government, things like data collection are easier. All the data is stored the same. In the US it's not so. The federal government doesn't have its fingers down that far into the system, (yet) Dec 21 17:37:05 alan_o: .ch is by far less centralized than the us Dec 21 17:37:17 alan_o: for one thing we dont even have one president, but seven Dec 21 17:37:25 And some would argue that it isn't even the federal government's job to collect data like this for the amusement of statisticians and journalists. Dec 21 17:37:40 alan_o: and each and every village can pass its own laws..and does it regularly (seriously!) Dec 21 17:37:47 Well we have 50 states Dec 21 17:37:56 26 over here Dec 21 17:37:56 each one runs its own issues. Dec 21 17:38:17 Well regardless, this is all tangential... Dec 21 17:38:32 and each of these 26 states is split into 10-30 politicaly independent communities Dec 21 17:38:41 yes it is Dec 21 17:38:54 Often, data isn't collected right away, or it takes years to get it done. I don't know all the reasons; I'm not a statistician; I just know it works out that way. Dec 21 17:39:10 but point is: any half way decent government has this data.. even if its just to know what the current issues are Dec 21 17:39:35 Maybe you and I have different definitions of half way decent government :) Dec 21 17:40:08 drinking time is here Dec 21 17:40:10 alan_o: and to counter your point: the WHO collects the very same data on a world wide scale, and even manages to munge the data in a way that they become comparable... and produces statistical reports ever 5 years Dec 21 17:40:10 cya Dec 21 17:40:29 alan_o: might be Dec 21 17:40:30 but the problems with that graph are that it doesn't have anything in the way of actual explanation (at least not linked to on that page). It's a dump of data and a "trust us." Dec 21 17:40:49 later panto! Dec 21 17:40:54 alan_o: eg i dont consider a government that thinks every human being is a potential criminal as half way decent Dec 21 17:41:09 yes, the presentation is bad Dec 21 17:41:27 KotH: I think the presumption of innocence is part of our core bill of rights. Dec 21 17:42:14 alan_o: your country fails that assumption on any person entering an airport Dec 21 17:42:21 yours? Dec 21 17:42:27 no the us Dec 21 17:42:32 and yours? Dec 21 17:43:07 do you have an idea what an insane amount of data the TSA requests from each and every flight passanger upon entering the us airspace (ie even if you do not land on us soil) Dec 21 17:43:17 I'm not going to defend the TSA and body scanners. We've been over this. I opt out every time. Some level of security is needed at an airport though. I hope you'd agree to that. Dec 21 17:43:27 i'm not talking about body scanners Dec 21 17:43:42 i'm talking about the TSA requesting police reports from each passenger Dec 21 17:44:04 So you're saying that the US doesn't just give a pass foreign aircraft flying over our airspace? A sovereign nation being in charge of its airspace? The horror.... Dec 21 17:44:09 most other countires just request the names and do a check for international wrants Dec 21 17:44:44 alan_o: no, the TSA wants data on every passanger of every aircraft passing trough its airspace Dec 21 17:44:52 alan_o: and its AFAIK the only country that does that Dec 21 17:46:10 or anther example: if you are a us citizen, and have a swiss bank account. the swiss bank has to report how much money you have on your account and what the major transactions were to the IRS Dec 21 17:46:21 even if you dont live in the us at all Dec 21 17:47:09 So your'e asserting that the US demands a police report for everyone on an airplane flying over US airspace? I'd need to see some evidence. Dec 21 17:47:15 for the swiss bank stuff too Dec 21 17:47:26 google for it Dec 21 17:47:38 both has been in the european news for years Dec 21 17:47:42 Why would the Swiss government be forced to give information to a foreign government. Dec 21 17:47:53 who would force them and how? Dec 21 17:48:01 it's not the government, it's the individual companies Dec 21 17:48:10 oh.. it's very simple Dec 21 17:48:18 So how is a foreign company answerable to the US government? Dec 21 17:48:29 why don't they give the US govt the finger, as they should? Dec 21 17:48:34 the airlines are forced by the TSA. they would loose the right to enter the airspace Dec 21 17:48:42 as I'd give the Swiss government if they demanded information from me Dec 21 17:48:52 the banks are forced by the IRS, they would lose the right to trade on the us stock exchanges Dec 21 17:48:53 That's airlines Dec 21 17:49:12 Oh, so they voluntarily enter into a agreement then, I see. Dec 21 17:49:23 "voluntarily" Dec 21 17:49:36 So what you're saying is that they voluntarily surrender all that info the the US government and that's my fault somehow. Dec 21 17:49:46 as a bank, you have no choice but to trade on the biggest financial market Dec 21 17:49:51 otherwise you are not a big bank anymore Dec 21 17:50:01 it's not your fault Dec 21 17:50:08 it's the arrogance of your government Dec 21 17:50:10 aren't europeans opposed to "big" anything? Dec 21 17:50:19 big business? Dec 21 17:50:36 We always hear about how evil wall street is. If it's so bad, stay off the street! Dec 21 17:50:38 no, we are opposed to anything that uses its "big" to bully others Dec 21 17:50:57 i dont mind wallstreet Dec 21 17:51:05 beside that it's an economic district Dec 21 17:51:11 but you have that in europe as well Dec 21 17:51:25 what i mind is the mindset of "we are big, thus we can force you to do our bidding" Dec 21 17:52:28 and the us government does that a lot Dec 21 17:52:47 voluntary Dec 21 17:53:04 yeah right Dec 21 17:53:15 And as far as the airspace goes, every country has the right to do that. Dec 21 17:53:47 And everyone can go around Dec 21 17:53:50 just like Cuba Dec 21 17:54:02 we can't fly over cuba at all, (at least didn't used to be able to) Dec 21 17:54:09 so we went around. Dec 21 17:54:17 they don't want to play, so we don't play. Dec 21 17:54:21 simple as that Dec 21 17:54:40 like the people in iskenderun voluntarily gave up their harbor to the us battle ships when the us goverment thought it would be a good idea to have a straight way from the mediteranean into iraq Dec 21 17:55:23 what are talking about now? Dec 21 17:55:28 * mranostay sips coffee Dec 21 17:55:58 oh.. in case you dont know that: at the beginning of the second iraq war, the us wanted to pass their troups trough turkey. turkey wasnt decided yet, whether they should allow that. so the us battle ships just closed of the harbor of iskenderun and occupied it for over a week Dec 21 17:56:15 mranostay: how the United States is big and evil and wrong, and how they set terms which favor themselves when negotiating with others! Dec 21 17:56:41 semi-evil :) Dec 21 17:56:47 * NishanthMenon thought for a moment if movie battleship had beagleboard on the alien warships Dec 21 17:57:31 NishanthMenon: battleship movie... hehe.... Dec 21 17:57:46 I'm waiting for movies based on other popular board games Dec 21 17:57:51 Candyland Dec 21 17:57:52 Sorry Dec 21 17:57:57 Hi-Q!!! Dec 21 17:58:02 alan_o: Jenga! Dec 21 17:58:31 NishanthMenon: we are never on topic here.. ever.. :) Dec 21 17:58:43 mranostay, so i inferred ;) Dec 21 18:01:32 frankly i'm not sure it is allowed Dec 21 18:02:28 KotH: I can't find evidence of what you're saying about Turkey. I find arabnews.com saying: . Dec 21 18:02:29 Ships have been unloading tons of US military equipment at Iskenderun for weeks under an interim agreement with the Turkish government allowing the United States to upgrade bases and ports here. Dec 21 18:02:31 here, OT means on-topic Dec 21 18:02:59 KotH: nothing about blockading a Turkish harbor Dec 21 18:03:32 which is an act of war. Seems like something that would have been widely reported. Dec 21 18:03:44 * mranostay yawns Dec 21 18:04:03 alan_o: read turkish news Dec 21 18:04:26 * NishanthMenon goes to lunch and awaits asteroids or something more interesting than mundane human thingies Dec 21 18:04:30 turkish news is not necessarily any more true than american press Dec 21 18:04:40 alan_o: i think the only thing that got some reports back than was a turkish soilder targeting an "diplomatic atache" who tried to leave the harbor area Dec 21 18:05:16 this channel is getting too real peoplez Dec 21 18:05:28 ok ok fine.... Dec 21 18:05:48 restarting topic.... NOW Dec 21 18:06:02 now booting the channel............ Dec 21 18:06:16 so how is everyone stance on the capital punihsment? :P Dec 21 18:06:21 *punishment Dec 21 18:06:41 mranostay: aligned with Texas :) Dec 21 18:07:05 someone didn't get the trolling :) Dec 21 18:07:19 heh Dec 21 18:07:46 does anyone know a pci vdsl modem? Dec 21 18:13:54 KotH, I do, but his stance on capitol punishment isn't the same as mine so I don't like 'em Dec 21 18:14:36 bradfa: ? Dec 21 18:14:41 KotH, trolling Dec 21 18:14:55 you just successfully puzzled me Dec 21 18:15:01 * bradfa WINS! Dec 21 18:18:27 mranostay, NOOOOO!!! Dec 21 18:18:58 I've lost the connection to my beaglebone! Dec 21 18:19:04 At startup it connects automatically to my router and I can access it, but somehow it doesn't connect to the router anymore at startup? Dec 21 18:19:11 I haven't changed anything on the router or the bone, how can I access it to see where the problem is Dec 21 18:22:30 mdp: ? :) Dec 21 18:23:27 mranostay, more forbidden topics :) Dec 21 18:27:21 jack150, usb Dec 21 18:27:36 you should get a serial connection once you plug it to your pc Dec 21 18:28:25 NishanthMenon: hey that is on topic Dec 21 18:28:32 what did we say about that? :) Dec 21 18:29:42 mranostay, yeah, we should not point jack150 to http://beagleboard.org/static/beaglebone/latest/README.htm and ask him to read "Connect to your BeagleBone's serial console" :) Dec 21 18:31:06 Well, the Matt Richardson video says to do it the way he did. What does mdp say about all the half-wrong beagle stuff on the internet? Dec 21 18:31:06 NishanthMenon: totally not Dec 21 18:31:36 alan_o: but can you do motd rockstar tech on a bone? Dec 21 18:32:06 mranostay: not on bone. Have to get an RPi for that. Dec 21 18:32:10 *ticket closed* Dec 21 18:32:20 * mdp updates the big board! Dec 21 18:37:59 rotate me baby: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WcvtwhCCqD0 Dec 21 18:38:40 +1 Dec 21 18:38:43 nice Dec 21 18:39:29 fun when you can get hardware floating pt in such a small device. Dec 21 18:45:18 it's a great accomplishment before things end later today Dec 21 18:46:10 f4? Dec 21 18:46:59 this channel could be dumped into the linux entropy pool Dec 21 18:49:58 duh, for some reason I didn't see it said f3 ;) Dec 21 18:50:12 heh Dec 21 18:51:02 I got the cube code from a guy who had it running on an F4. Spins a bit faster there, but the real limitation is the speed of the SPI transfer to the LCD. Dec 21 18:52:16 emeb: pruss :) Dec 21 18:52:49 emeb: what is the clocking for the SPI bus? Dec 21 18:53:28 mranostay: no pruss on an stm32f373 :) Dec 21 18:53:51 I've got SPI running at about 5MHz clock rate Dec 21 18:55:07 nice Dec 21 18:55:22 need to rework my PRU demo over the holidays Dec 21 18:55:35 but I have to throttle the bytes to about 2.5us otherwise the display hangs. Dec 21 18:56:24 mranostay, add a dash of rum and cowbell Dec 21 18:56:56 mdp: my plan to have the PRU cores the only thing controlling the shift register Dec 21 18:57:01 *things Dec 21 18:57:11 one core is going to be the clock :) Dec 21 18:57:46 load it up and userspace doesn't do a single thing Dec 21 19:01:29 mranostay, nice example Dec 21 19:02:51 and that should unlock your Master Bitbanger Achievement too Dec 21 19:03:04 heh Dec 21 19:03:15 mention that to the coffeeshop ladies ;) Dec 21 19:04:20 yeah before or after i get maced? Dec 21 19:04:55 perhaps you won't be able to get "..it's just software..." out before you are maced Dec 21 19:04:57 that's true Dec 21 19:15:20 anyone have good cheap webcam reviews for a low light lab area? Dec 21 19:15:23 aka my closet Dec 21 19:17:38 * mranostay senses mdp is calling the police :P Dec 21 19:19:16 "lab" Dec 21 19:19:52 i could have worded that better Dec 21 19:20:08 hehe Dec 21 19:21:27 alan_o: so want to come over for some tea? :P Dec 21 19:21:52 boy do I! Dec 21 19:22:04 yes, I was imagining a blood-soaked room, quite frankly Dec 21 19:22:11 dunno why you made me think that Dec 21 19:22:21 lots of zombie novels lately ;) Dec 21 19:22:41 1. Cardio Dec 21 19:30:12 NishanthMenon, when you're back from lunch, and assuming you didn't find the asteroids :D, can you take a stab at: http://lists.denx.de/pipermail/u-boot/2012-December/142801.html Dec 21 19:30:13 thx Dec 21 19:32:18 joelagnel: i don't see him replying.. may the asteroids got him Dec 21 19:34:56 :) Dec 21 19:35:18 joelagnel: you get his workload too i'm sorry to say :) Dec 21 19:36:07 * djlewis was totally expecting an alien spaceship armada to arrive. Dec 21 19:37:22 Had baked cookies and had cold beer waiting for them :( Dec 21 19:37:36 * mranostay checks clock Dec 21 19:37:54 mranstay: honestly, i would love to work with nm on his stuff so i don't mind ;) Dec 21 19:37:59 it's not too late Dec 21 19:38:02 they could still show up Dec 21 19:38:34 Russ: thank you for the encouragement... Dec 21 19:39:28 we will all be hanging like slabs of fresh butchered beef in the bowels of their spaceship. Dec 21 19:39:40 djlewis: i don't think aliens can handle alcohol Dec 21 19:39:53 we got milk too :) Dec 21 19:42:19 * djlewis thinks the usps took today seriously and went home rather than deliver me my new radio. Dec 21 19:42:19 i forget on V they were reptiles right? Dec 21 19:42:28 yup Dec 21 19:42:41 human masks or did they transform? Dec 21 19:42:56 idrc Dec 21 19:53:56 KotH: my personal interpretation of dark chocolate with schinus terebinthifolius berries is rather tasty I must say Dec 21 19:56:58 * mranostay fedexs KotH some Hershey bars for xmas Dec 21 20:08:05 no armada yet? guess I get to go out tonight after all. Dec 21 20:09:56 do you want to be drunk when the aliens come? Dec 21 20:12:26 \o/ Dec 21 20:12:34 travel budget approved for 2013 Dec 21 20:12:57 and the number is a grand total of $0.00? Dec 21 20:13:19 I forgot the number, but all the conferences were approved Dec 21 20:13:25 where's prpplague hiding? Dec 21 20:13:43 I'll in his neck of the woods for the duration of march Dec 21 20:13:48 +be Dec 21 20:14:15 you doing a big tour of the US? Dec 21 20:14:24 koen, both conferences? the Ede Linuxfest AND Amsterdam Linuxfest? Dec 21 20:18:19 fosdem, elc, linuxtag, elc-e Dec 21 20:18:26 big texas visit tacked on to ELC Dec 21 20:19:08 I will try to get a trip to Ohio Linuxfest authorized Dec 21 20:19:30 biggest show in the heartland :) Dec 21 20:20:15 mdp: just time with the dayton events Dec 21 20:20:20 no one will notice ;) Dec 21 20:20:30 mmmm Dec 21 20:20:35 I miss dayton Dec 21 20:21:00 was a great pilgrimage from campus to the dayton events Dec 21 20:21:13 radio pr0n ;) Dec 21 20:24:12 mdp: oh yeah linuxfest is really on the scale :) Dec 21 20:25:13 went to that once... had way too much Oktoberfest Dec 21 20:28:02 mdp: is it still at the Columbus Convention Center? Dec 21 20:36:03 emeb: you know there is a hack for that display to run at a faster clocking Dec 21 20:38:03 mranostay: I did not know that. Dec 21 20:38:11 Where can I find out more? Dec 21 20:38:35 * mranostay pokes koen Dec 21 20:38:56 emeb: short the level shifter and you can use >8MHz Dec 21 20:39:14 emeb: the datasheet says that 12MHz is the max, but 16MHz seems to work Dec 21 20:39:35 Hey, quick question, does the BeagleBoard-xM with Angstrom automatically do any error check/correction on the uSD card? Dec 21 20:39:40 Oh, so that 4050 buffer that Adafruit put in is slowing things down. Dec 21 20:39:50 emeb: see http://fabienroyer.wordpress.com/2011/05/29/driving-an-adafruit-st7735-tft-display-with-a-netduino/ for the pictures Dec 21 20:39:56 mranostay, I think so...apparently it got bigger...it's all server people from the insurance companies AFAICT Dec 21 20:40:10 koen: thanks! Dec 21 20:40:24 Marc_: that depends, it is mostly left to the controller inside the uSD card Dec 21 20:40:58 emeb, yeah one of the downsides of their need to design for 5V arduino PnP compatibility Dec 21 20:41:03 koen, Say there is a bit-flip that occurs somewhere in the sd card, will the microcontroller see and correct that? Dec 21 20:41:31 mdp: yeah - that 5V legacy is a problem. Dec 21 20:42:01 I was looking around for a schematic for that board but hadn't found one yet. Strange they don't make it easy to find. Dec 21 20:42:03 Marc_: er most SD cards have bad block checking Dec 21 20:43:24 all Dec 21 20:43:25 mranostay, Would they correct as well? Dec 21 20:43:48 if they can Dec 21 20:44:15 most algorithms detect more than they can correct Dec 21 20:44:36 a block with > than those that can be corrected is chucked into the bad block list Dec 21 20:45:03 mdp, What happens to the memory that was on the block? Dec 21 20:45:12 there's no magic on an SD card, they do the same thing you do with raw nand in a linux ffs Dec 21 20:45:16 mdp, Say some of the boot data was on the block, would the sd card move that stuff over? Dec 21 20:45:30 ideally Dec 21 20:45:34 yes, that's the normal process implemented in scrubbing Dec 21 20:45:44 but not 100% error free Dec 21 20:45:55 the *exact* details of when/where/how you don't get to see Dec 21 20:46:04 mdp: it is all magic :) Dec 21 20:46:17 Hmm, ok, say the beagleboard-xm is in an environment where it can be exposed to radiation Dec 21 20:46:26 * mranostay perks up Dec 21 20:46:29 it's one reason they have been moving people that direction...provides more CYA for screwups on their raw nand parts that are difficult to support Dec 21 20:46:45 Marc_: more than background? Dec 21 20:46:53 Would the sd card be able to deal with bit flips caused by radiation? Dec 21 20:46:55 Yes Dec 21 20:47:06 ah no i doubt it Dec 21 20:47:15 Marc_, you lost all integrity of the system Dec 21 20:47:17 mranostay, even if the card is "x-ray resistant" Dec 21 20:47:26 as the logic doing the detection is affected by the radiation Dec 21 20:47:30 Marc_: are we talking gamma rays? Dec 21 20:47:37 or just xrays? Dec 21 20:47:38 proton radiation Dec 21 20:47:44 and possibly gamma rays Dec 21 20:47:59 Marc_: so alpha? Dec 21 20:48:19 * mranostay heads to wikipedia Dec 21 20:48:21 mranostay, Yes, and any other radiation present in low earth orbit/Van Allen belts Dec 21 20:48:48 in space, nobody hears the beagle scream Dec 21 20:49:29 dm8tbr, that gave me a good laugh Dec 21 20:49:38 er what are you launching? Dec 21 20:49:48 Have you ever heard of a CubeSat? Dec 21 20:50:42 not until now Dec 21 20:50:51 Marc_, you would have to consult the manufacturer's environmental guidelines for the uC/NAND inside the SD card Dec 21 20:50:59 I have doubts Dec 21 20:51:07 i wouldn't use a SD card on something you can't recover :) Dec 21 20:51:26 Haha all good points Dec 21 20:51:30 SD is a bad choice for production in a lab environment Dec 21 20:51:42 Marc_: i have SD cards fail all the time Dec 21 20:51:55 probably 2-3 a year in my small lab Dec 21 20:51:56 and it's nearly impossible to get even a sample of sane SD cards for normal environments Dec 21 20:52:00 Yeah, it's risky, but we need the raw power in the Beagle Dec 21 20:52:16 it's why everybody that's anybody has gone to eMMC for "managed NAND" style production use Dec 21 20:52:35 eMMC? Dec 21 20:52:57 Ah, multimedia cards Dec 21 20:53:06 Marc_: important note the cheapest NAND goes in SD cards Dec 21 20:53:06 no a card Dec 21 20:53:15 not Dec 21 20:53:20 Marc_: is it a 'bare' chip Dec 21 20:53:20 Can I post a link of the card we were planning on using? Dec 21 20:53:23 somehow I'd want to go for some sort of rad-hard storage... Dec 21 20:53:53 and is it possible for the Beagle to run Angstrom from this eMMC? Dec 21 20:54:16 dm8tbr: that's what we used on sats at Motorola...but that was years ago and DoD stuff Dec 21 20:54:41 *nod* Dec 21 20:55:09 a few k of storage that could buy a reasonably priced car instead, I guess Dec 21 20:55:21 is there any rad-hard storage the approximate size of the SD card that I could integrate relatively quickly? (Less than 4 months) Dec 21 20:55:36 And that costs less than a car haha Dec 21 20:56:09 Marc_: quite a few cube-sats and AMSATs have been launched already. try to look at lessons learned? Dec 21 20:56:10 the problem is not just the storage...but the need for your uC inside etc. with sram to be rad-hard Dec 21 20:56:28 not sure how they solve that these days with commercial parts Dec 21 20:56:38 mdp: encased it in lead i say :) Dec 21 20:57:09 That's the hard part, we have such a short time line and we want the image processing capabilities of the beagleboard, I know a few cubesats launch FPGAs Dec 21 20:57:12 oops, time to head to the big city for dinner/theater. Dec 21 20:57:13 maybe go raw NAND and use ridiculous amount of parity/ecc Dec 21 20:57:13 and ARM chips have flown before Dec 21 20:57:26 gentlepeople, if there's no tomorrow. it was truly a blast. cya! Dec 21 20:57:30 Bye mdp, thanks for the help! Dec 21 20:57:36 mdp: enjoy! Dec 21 20:58:16 dm8tbr, that would be ideal, but it sounds like a lot of over head in the time we have haha Dec 21 20:58:33 Also, we will have 2mm of Aluminum on each side of the BBxM Dec 21 20:58:36 Marc_: just get ahold of a BB classic Dec 21 20:58:39 and maybe a coating of polyethylene Dec 21 20:58:40 Marc_: what is the lifetime of the satelite expected to be? Dec 21 20:58:49 1 year Dec 21 20:58:54 i assume these all re-enter shortly Dec 21 20:58:59 If the BBxM works for atleast a few months, we'll be fine Dec 21 20:59:20 1 year is actually quite longer than I expected for a cubesat Dec 21 20:59:37 yeah these are in LEO right? Dec 21 20:59:44 dm8tbr, do you think the BB classic would be more resilient? Dec 21 20:59:52 Marc_: no :) Dec 21 20:59:52 right, LEO Dec 21 20:59:56 500 KM up Dec 21 21:00:17 mranostay, it was worth asking :P Dec 21 21:01:00 so is this for telemetry data? Dec 21 21:01:28 using solar panels for power? Dec 21 21:02:21 Using solar panels for power Dec 21 21:02:23 Marc_: the classic has raw nand Dec 21 21:02:37 But the beagleboard itself is going to be performing image processing and will only be on a few times a week Dec 21 21:02:48 dm8tbr, I will look into it :) Dec 21 21:03:06 dm8tbr: good point Dec 21 21:03:12 dm8tbr: :-) Dec 21 21:03:15 that would eliminate one source of problems Dec 21 21:03:33 also i doubt you need the ethernet as well Dec 21 21:03:33 mranostay: i'm not much of a fan of hersheys Dec 21 21:03:56 Marc_: I'd also suggest to be able to either power cycle from C&C uplink and or via various watchdogs Dec 21 21:04:38 Marc_: but double-check if you buy a classic, that it has nand. I'm not sure if the last spin didn't have the NAND removed Dec 21 21:05:09 mranostay: we've modified the BBxM, we desoldered a lot of the components on it Dec 21 21:05:41 dm8tbr: will do, I'm looking into it now :) Dec 21 21:06:33 Does the classic have a camera header? I'm not seeing one Dec 21 21:06:56 don't remember Dec 21 21:07:41 there's also another option. the very first BBxms had NAND, but SYSID pins configured to not boot from it Dec 21 21:08:03 Marc_: as this is a one off and you probably only need one or two... might want to ask around Dec 21 21:09:05 dm8tbr: Interesting, so I could put all the boot data on the NAND? Dec 21 21:09:34 yes Dec 21 21:12:13 Ok, I'll start looking for older boards, how hard would it be and would it work exactly like the boot partition in the uSD card? Dec 21 21:45:26 Marc_: it should be well documented for the original BB how to set up mlo/uboot etc in nand Dec 21 21:46:11 dm8tbr: Thanks! Hey, do you think having multiple boot partitions is a feasible option as well? Dec 21 21:47:38 multiple boot partitions? Dec 21 21:47:46 Marc_: the classic bb has a 'user button' to select booting from SD and NAND Dec 21 21:48:18 Ok Dec 21 21:48:30 aside from that you could do things in uboot Dec 21 21:48:43 to select different kernel/userspace pairs Dec 21 21:49:32 I know commercial products that do this too Dec 21 21:49:38 you could force userland to be in a cpio ramdisk ;) Dec 21 21:50:50 Ok, like dual-booting? Dec 21 22:28:43 dm8tbr: we don't speak of those BBxMs sir :) Dec 21 23:30:18 koen: mranostay: tried out that hack to speed up the SPI LCD - it works. got my frame rate up to 24fps. Dec 22 00:12:09 and a few more tweaks gets it to 50fps. Dec 22 00:31:37 emeb: you will get my consulting bill in the mail :P Dec 22 00:32:09 prepare to be disappointed with my response. :) Dec 22 00:32:21 (or lack thereof) Dec 22 00:32:51 fwiw - found a few more optimizations in the clock setup and it's running ~71fps Dec 22 00:33:11 that's driving the spi clock into the LCD display about 2.4x faster than the datasheet max. Dec 22 00:37:17 awesome Dec 22 00:37:32 * mranostay increases bill 2.4x :P Dec 22 00:44:25 OK if I pay only in blue M&Ms? Dec 22 00:59:29 those taste terrible Dec 22 00:59:36 i like the yellow ones better Dec 22 01:16:57 emeb: 60fps works out to 18MHz or so with the linux driver Dec 22 01:17:37 emeb: it sucks that the adafruit board doesn't bring out vsync Dec 22 01:17:42 hmmm Dec 22 01:18:06 maybe I should spend some time on the holidays to finish that st7735 breakout board in eagle Dec 22 01:18:24 eagle? heh Dec 22 01:18:37 koen: prehaps you should start pestering Gerald to put out the designs in eagle too Dec 22 01:21:50 fly like an eagle!... *dum doh dah* Dec 22 01:26:33 koen: the linux driver is probably using the spi bus much more efficiently than my code is. Dec 22 01:26:51 I'm still using PIO, so there's a lot of dead time between bytes. Dec 22 01:27:27 I'm thinking about how to handle this with DMA. Trouble is that the MCU I'm using doesn't have enough on-chip SRAM for a full screen buffer. Dec 22 01:27:36 emeb: dma and a deferred io for the framebuffer Dec 22 01:28:07 mdp says partial updates are just not worth it when running at these speeds Dec 22 01:28:17 koen: not sure what deferred io means. Dec 22 01:28:21 command setup takes longer than sending the full 40k Dec 22 01:28:36 emeb: kind of like a shadow framebuffer or XDAMAGE Dec 22 01:28:51 aha. Dec 22 01:28:58 emeb: the kernel stores changes and pushed them to the hw at 1/HZ intervals Dec 22 01:29:07 nice Dec 22 01:29:48 so you basically need 2 copies of the buffer - the one that userspace sees and the one the kernel uses for the deltas. Dec 22 01:30:09 or use MMU when possible Dec 22 01:30:24 yeah, you need another 40k Dec 22 01:32:37 neat trick if you've got the RAM. My little MCU has only 32kB. My framebuffer is 128x128x8 = 16k and I expand it to x16bit on the fly as I send it to SPI. **** ENDING LOGGING AT Sat Dec 22 02:59:58 2012