**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Jan 08 02:59:59 2013
Jan 08 03:00:35 <mranostay> of course casual dress can go too far
Jan 08 03:00:55 <mranostay> if you wear flip flops to work i wish death on you :)
Jan 08 03:01:57 <thurbad> I wear flip flops to my current job
Jan 08 03:01:59 <thurbad> :P
Jan 08 03:02:11 <mranostay> thurbad: die!
Jan 08 03:02:58 <thurbad> technically teva... so not /quite/ flip flop... but still
Jan 08 03:03:36 <emeb_mac> emeb_mac: wears pyjamas to his job
Jan 08 03:03:59 <thurbad> nice
Jan 08 03:04:48 <prpplague> mranostay: hehe, well my "casual" is a dress shirt and slacks
Jan 08 03:05:11 <mranostay> at least i  don't dress like a hipster
Jan 08 03:05:25 <emeb_mac> suits one size too small?
Jan 08 03:05:37 <mranostay> yeah that would be one thing
Jan 08 03:05:46 <mranostay> porkpie hat
Jan 08 03:05:52 <emeb_mac> lol
Jan 08 03:05:55 <mrpackethead_> i am at work in shorts and t-shirt today
Jan 08 03:06:04 <mrpackethead_> the guys down stairs are complaining
Jan 08 03:06:14 <mrpackethead_> that they have their overalls on
Jan 08 03:06:29 <mranostay> what are you sheep farmers in your spare time?
Jan 08 03:06:40 <emeb_mac> got any banjos?
Jan 08 03:06:40 <thurbad> :)
Jan 08 03:06:50 <mrpackethead_> lol.. they are runnign the machines.  and they ahve 7 fingers on each hand
Jan 08 03:07:17 <mranostay> 7 fingers would be handy for banjo playing
Jan 08 03:07:43 <mranostay> finally a inbreeding defect that works out
Jan 08 03:07:56 <mrpackethead_> lol, you can type at 280wpm
Jan 08 03:08:27 <emeb_mac> human polydactyls
Jan 08 03:08:55 * emeb_mac has a polydactyl cat - good thing he's too dumb to know what to do with those thumbs.
Jan 08 03:08:57 <Russ> I don't think there is a 7 finger dvorak variant
Jan 08 03:09:19 <thurbad> polydactyl cats tend to be smarter than average
Jan 08 03:09:50 <emeb_mac> this one is just gifted at getting into trouble.
Jan 08 03:09:50 <thurbad> apparently in your case that not a rule
Jan 08 03:10:30 <emeb_mac> we say that when they were handing out brains, he got in line for more toes.
Jan 08 03:10:45 <thurbad> heh
Jan 08 03:45:32 <mranostay> oh boy stuffs from intelz
Jan 08 03:47:16 <emeb_mac> whadja get?
Jan 08 03:47:59 <emeb_mac> cardboard box! packing peanuts! pink bubble wrap!
Jan 08 03:48:14 <mranostay> ssssh :)
Jan 08 03:53:10 <mranostay> love the loan period section of this agreement
Jan 08 03:53:22 <mranostay> aka never sell this thing
Jan 08 03:53:28 <emeb_mac> awwww - you have to give it back
Jan 08 03:54:34 <mranostay> only if they want it
Jan 08 03:55:16 <emeb_mac> is this like those processor loans that they do for employees? got some buddies who work there who do that.
Jan 08 04:16:33 <ka6sox> which I doubt they will...
Jan 08 04:16:47 <ka6sox> when i get homze I'll will have to look if Santa brought me a pressie.
Jan 08 04:17:18 <ds2> fish river?
Jan 08 04:18:56 <ka6sox> 2
Jan 08 04:19:55 <emeb_mac> fishy!
Jan 08 04:21:16 <mdp> kraken river is too scary
Jan 08 04:22:04 <ds2> wonder who goes to Android Builders Summit
Jan 08 04:22:32 <emeb_mac> RELEASE THE FISHY!
Jan 08 04:23:32 <mdp> ds2, android builders!
Jan 08 04:23:42 <mdp> I'm just sayin'
Jan 08 04:23:54 <mdp> emeb_mac: +1
Jan 08 04:25:46 <ds2> wonder if should send in a proposal just for the hell of it
Jan 08 04:27:38 <mranostay> yeah it for my north lab :)
Jan 08 04:36:42 <yates> why are many of the embedded linux kernels stuck at 2.6 and not something newer?
Jan 08 04:36:54 <prpplague> hehe
Jan 08 04:37:07 <prpplague> yates: there are many reasons
Jan 08 04:37:14 <prpplague> yates: but some of the top ones are
Jan 08 04:37:36 <prpplague> yates: not enough employee resources to update a hardware platforms kernel to a newer verson
Jan 08 04:38:02 <prpplague> yates: newer kernels can introduce sutle new bugs which are bad for a commercial product
Jan 08 04:38:32 <yates> prpplague: well, can't you just grab the kernel source and have at it yourself? i.e., configure and recompile?
Jan 08 04:38:38 <prpplague> yates: companies don't push their device supprot into mainline so it makes it very difficult port their hacks forward to new kernels
Jan 08 04:38:57 <prpplague> yates: only if the company has pushed the support mainline which most don't
Jan 08 04:39:30 <yates> what companies are you referring to? the cpu vendor? board mfr?
Jan 08 04:39:47 <prpplague> yates: all of the above
Jan 08 04:39:56 <prpplague> yates: they build on the failure
Jan 08 04:40:17 <prpplague> yates: it is a long debated topic
Jan 08 04:40:27 <yates> hum..
Jan 08 04:40:44 <ds2> HE HE HE HE HE HE HE
Jan 08 04:41:05 <yates> prpplague: thanks for the education
Jan 08 04:41:19 <mdp> never heard this topic before
Jan 08 04:42:00 <prpplague> hehe
Jan 08 04:42:05 <yates> what kernel does the beagle-xm support?
Jan 08 04:42:19 <emeb_mac> hohohahaheehee
Jan 08 04:42:23 * prpplague wanders off to read a data structure book
Jan 08 04:42:36 <emeb_mac> must be trying to go to sleep
Jan 08 04:43:04 <mdp> prpplague: just read K&R again instead
Jan 08 04:43:39 <yates> prpplague: try Knuth's "Art"
Jan 08 04:44:10 * mdp abandons dmaengine until tomorrow
Jan 08 04:44:12 <mdp> bbt
Jan 08 04:45:46 <ds2> any job that requires you to read a data structure book ain't worth working for
Jan 08 04:46:06 <ds2> let's focus on reality... circuit analysis, phasors, etc
Jan 08 04:46:20 <emeb_mac> phasors? you been watching too much star trek.
Jan 08 04:46:36 <yates> does the beagleboard use the arm cortex A8?
Jan 08 04:46:38 <mranostay> mdp: abandon all hope ye that enter
Jan 08 04:46:45 <emeb_mac> (true quote from one of my dynamics profs in college)
Jan 08 04:48:06 <yates> if so, why do the instructions for the beagleboard here refer to "linux-omap" - that's like the 4460 from TI, right?
Jan 08 04:48:12 <yates> http://elinux.org/BeagleBoard#Linux_kernel
Jan 08 04:48:49 <ds2> emeb_mac: whatever you spell that... the complex exponential stuff
Jan 08 04:49:10 <yates> Euler's theorem
Jan 08 04:49:28 <emeb_mac> ds2: I know exactly what you mean, but that ME prof didn't.
Jan 08 04:49:53 <ds2> oh okay
Jan 08 04:49:59 <ds2> :)
Jan 08 04:50:11 <ds2> ME's have their own quirks
Jan 08 04:50:11 <yates> ask Cauchy and Riemann.
Jan 08 04:51:02 <yates> if so, why do the instructions for the beagleboard here refer to "linux-omap" - that's like the 4460 from TI, right?
Jan 08 04:51:19 <emeb_mac> is there an echo in here? :)
Jan 08 04:51:36 <ds2> the ECAN is broken
Jan 08 04:52:03 <yates> emeb_mac: i was hoping to find an answer.
Jan 08 04:52:37 <yates> the panda was based on omap but not beagle, unless that was an earlier version. right?
Jan 08 04:52:59 <emeb_mac> yates: the original beagleboard used an OMAP3530 processor
Jan 08 04:53:20 <yates> ah.
Jan 08 04:53:32 <emeb_mac> the DM35xx used on the Beagleboard XM is closely related, even though it's not officially an OMAP.
Jan 08 04:53:51 <ka6sox> kissing cousins?
Jan 08 04:54:04 <ds2> dm37XX
Jan 08 04:54:10 <emeb_mac> derp
Jan 08 04:54:20 <ds2> there is an am35xx part though ;)
Jan 08 04:55:05 <ds2> the am35xx are very similar to the am33xx
Jan 08 04:55:49 <mrpackethead_> 200 different
Jan 08 04:57:11 <yates> the rev3 schematics call it an "OMAP3730"
Jan 08 04:57:46 <ds2> talk to your friendly local TI rep
Jan 08 04:59:14 <yates> i was confyoosed - sorry
Jan 08 04:59:39 <mrpackethead_> tongiths effort will be to try to get the TI ICE to fire up
Jan 08 04:59:48 <yates> the 3730 IS an ARM Cortex A8...
Jan 08 05:00:38 <yates> i'm seeing the acronym "OE" in some of the kernel stuff - what is that?
Jan 08 05:01:03 <yates> mrpackethead_: in-circuit-emulator?
Jan 08 05:01:20 <mrpackethead_> Industrial Communications Engine
Jan 08 05:01:20 <ds2> wouldn't firing an ice melt it?
Jan 08 05:01:28 <mrpackethead_> its like a beagle but different
Jan 08 05:01:46 <ds2> OE is the Obfuscation Engine
Jan 08 05:02:24 <yates> eschew obfuscation
Jan 08 05:03:11 <yates> ds2: were you serious?
Jan 08 05:06:02 <yates> oh yeah, the DM37x has the ARM plus the TMS320C64x+ core.
Jan 08 05:07:13 <yates> the AM-series don't have the 64x
Jan 08 05:09:14 <mrpackethead_> the AM3359 is a very useful device
Jan 08 05:09:22 <mrpackethead_> when you get your head around the PRUSS
Jan 08 05:11:12 <yates> PRUSS: sounds architecturely similar to the CLA on the TMS320F28x
Jan 08 05:15:12 <yates> i should say, functionally similar
Jan 08 05:15:42 <yates> mrpackethead_: what did you use pruss for?
Jan 08 05:15:55 <mrpackethead_> i have two projects
Jan 08 05:16:00 <mrpackethead_> i'm usin it for
Jan 08 05:17:07 <yates> for example?
Jan 08 05:17:44 <yates> to handle data xfers between the arm and dsp?
Jan 08 05:18:55 <mrpackethead_> for doign stuff.
Jan 08 05:20:46 <yates> oh, well you da' man
Jan 08 05:20:55 <mrpackethead_> i can't talk about the 2 projects
Jan 08 05:21:06 <mrpackethead_> but there are some good examples
Jan 08 05:23:25 <yates> can you run you own custom 64+ code on the DM37x?
Jan 08 05:31:14 <emeb_mac> of course
Jan 08 05:48:14 * mranostay opens his nixie tube package
Jan 08 05:49:29 <Russ> A NEW PACKAGE!
Jan 08 05:49:46 <emeb_mac> mranostay gets a lot of late deliveries
Jan 08 05:50:32 <mrpackethead_> that is a late late
Jan 08 05:52:52 <ds2> emeb_mac: he shops under bridges
Jan 08 05:53:14 <emeb_mac> ds2: you can find some good stuff there.
Jan 08 05:53:42 <Russ> mranostay, pics or it didn't happen
Jan 08 05:53:45 <ds2> yes, but they can get rather 'warm'
Jan 08 05:53:50 <Russ> ™
Jan 08 06:13:37 <ka6sox> guess I better head home...otherwise I'll never know if I have a toy.
Jan 08 06:23:07 <emeb_mac> ka6sox: getting a late delivery of nixie tubes?
Jan 08 06:28:24 <ka6sox> fish I think
Jan 08 06:29:24 <emeb_mac> ooo
Jan 08 06:30:16 <emeb_mac> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_7VgDSNxlGU
Jan 08 06:31:51 <mranostay> Russ: ok vfd tube stuffs
Jan 08 06:36:25 <mranostay> ka6sox: FRI2? :)
Jan 08 06:40:00 <ka6sox> yes, a fish FRi2
Jan 08 06:40:14 <ka6sox> (beer batter is the best)
Jan 08 06:43:08 <mranostay> dammit "# CONFIG_USB_SERIAL_TI is not set"
Jan 08 06:43:33 <mranostay> koen: *ahem* :)
Jan 08 06:47:13 <mranostay> well this thing is as warm i would expect an x86 system
Jan 08 06:47:36 <ds2> oh.. so that means you can cook eggs on it?
Jan 08 06:47:49 <emeb_mac> make donuts.
Jan 08 06:48:10 <ds2> or maybe even melt steel on it? ;)
Jan 08 06:48:16 <mranostay> foot warmer
Jan 08 06:58:33 <mranostay> you having  special character in my SSID was probably a bad idea
Jan 08 07:02:39 <mranostay> wtf does this mean "cfg80211: Calling CRDA to update world regulatory domain" ?
Jan 08 07:03:40 <emeb_mac> stay right where you are - the MIB has been dispatched to your location.
Jan 08 07:10:35 <KotH> good morning boys
Jan 08 07:11:36 <mranostay> who you calling boy?
Jan 08 07:11:39 <KotH> mranostay: wlan cards use different frequecies and are allowed different tx powers depending on which country they are used in
Jan 08 07:12:08 <mranostay> ah yeah
Jan 08 07:12:09 <KotH> mranostay: at init, the kernel calls some user space program to load the necessary tables
Jan 08 07:12:40 <mranostay> well the FCC isn't at my front door yet
Jan 08 07:13:01 <KotH> usually nobody will find out if you are using wrong settings
Jan 08 07:13:04 <KotH> usually..
Jan 08 07:13:41 <mranostay> blech grub
Jan 08 07:17:42 <ka6sox> mranostay, did you pass?
Jan 08 07:20:15 <mranostay> yeah about that.. had some other fun that night and didn't wake up in time :)
Jan 08 07:20:28 <mranostay> next weekend maybe :)
Jan 08 07:21:01 * ka6sox wires up mranostay's phone friday night to shock him saturday in time... :P
Jan 08 07:21:27 <KotH> missed an exam?
Jan 08 07:21:43 <ka6sox> 15 demerits
Jan 08 07:24:17 <mranostay> opposite sex comes over any silly ham radio test :)
Jan 08 07:24:34 <mranostay> there will always be another exam for instance
Jan 08 07:26:56 <KotH> there will always be another girl too ;-)
Jan 08 07:27:55 <KotH> and ofc, if you are gay, the opposite sex doesn't really matter ;->
Jan 08 07:28:26 * mranostay smacks KotH 
Jan 08 07:37:37 <ds2> mranostay: are you a ham yet?
Jan 08 07:37:52 <ds2> oh n/m
Jan 08 07:39:26 <ka6sox> ds2, just call him "sleeping beauty"
Jan 08 07:39:48 * mranostay curses wpa_supplicant
Jan 08 07:41:35 <sp00k> hi there, I need to get notified when the framebuffer/display blanks in a userspace application. What is the interface for this? I need something like FB_EVENT_BLANK but for userspace...
Jan 08 07:42:16 <mranostay> you asked this already
Jan 08 07:42:29 <sp00k> yes, and the answer was: use FB_EVENT_BLANK
Jan 08 07:43:11 <sp00k> but I now realized that in linux/fb.h there is a #ifdef __KERNEL__, so I can't use this event in userspace
Jan 08 07:46:15 <ds2> STOP DOING CRAP IN USERLAND
Jan 08 07:46:22 <ds2> this is stupid
Jan 08 07:46:39 <sp00k> why?
Jan 08 07:46:43 <KotH> sp00k: what do you want to do?
Jan 08 07:47:44 <ds2> do you also try to drive to work with a legos car?
Jan 08 07:49:11 <sp00k> I have a app that streams from a mt9p031 cam and relies on omapdss (and the whole omap3isp). While streaming the user can suspend the device or the console can get blanked, so I need to turn off streaming
Jan 08 07:49:15 <ka6sox> doing FB in userland is like BitBanging Video :P
Jan 08 07:50:13 <KotH> sp00k: why would you want to stop streaming when the console is blanked?
Jan 08 07:50:28 <mranostay> someone say bitbanging?
Jan 08 07:51:28 <KotH> mranostay: move along, you're not a ham yet
Jan 08 07:51:47 <sp00k> KotH: "echo 1 > /sys/class/graphics/fb0/blank" disables also the display and crashes the omap3isp when a streaming is going on
Jan 08 07:55:27 <mranostay> KotH: yeah well i may be a nerd but i'm not a dork :
Jan 08 07:55:28 <mranostay> :)
Jan 08 07:57:06 <mranostay> prpplague: ping-ish
Jan 08 07:58:50 <chainz> how to use optional JTAG in beaglebone RevA5 ? do need to anything to switch the JTAG connection from FTDI to optional JTAG ?
Jan 08 07:58:51 <KotH> sp00k: then fix the crash
Jan 08 07:59:08 <mranostay> chainz: how are your soldering skills?
Jan 08 07:59:12 <KotH> sp00k: on unix, applications are supposed to continue running as if nothing happend, if the display is blanked
Jan 08 08:00:01 <mranostay> the optional jtag requires some rework that will totally void the warranty :)
Jan 08 08:00:12 <mranostay> well one board I got RMA'ed with it on
Jan 08 08:00:18 <ka6sox> mranostay, are you trying to wake up those who *should* be in bed.
Jan 08 08:00:23 <sp00k> KotH: jup, the app keeps running, but the omap3isp kernel module crashes ;)
Jan 08 08:01:17 <sp00k> KotH: so I have to look if it is supposed to crash or of it is really a bug
Jan 08 08:01:42 <KotH> sp00k: the answer is simple: nothing is ever supposed to crash
Jan 08 08:01:53 <KotH> sp00k: unless it's an airplane
Jan 08 08:02:01 <mranostay> ka6sox: isn't this like really late for you? :)
Jan 08 08:02:42 <mrpackethead_> boo.
Jan 08 08:05:46 <ka6sox> mranostay, ya, us OLD folks should have shuffled off to bed about dark right?
Jan 08 08:06:11 <_av500_> right
Jan 08 08:06:44 <mranostay> old folks from germany are taking over
Jan 08 08:06:56 <KotH> hey!
Jan 08 08:06:59 <KotH> i'm not german!
Jan 08 08:07:09 * ka6sox hands the Torch to av500
Jan 08 08:07:14 <mranostay> KotH: you are what? 30?
Jan 08 08:07:26 <KotH> that's a horrible insult for any non-german!
Jan 08 08:07:52 <KotH> mranostay: we had that a couple of weeks ago already
Jan 08 08:08:14 <mranostay> i have a short memory
Jan 08 08:08:54 <KotH> onset of dementia?
Jan 08 08:09:04 <chainz> Thanks for your replies.
Jan 08 08:09:17 <chainz> its working nice for me now
Jan 08 08:09:17 <KotH> chainz: you are welcome
Jan 08 08:09:52 <mranostay> anyone past 30 is old to me anyway
Jan 08 08:10:18 <chainz> @koth : but its difficult to do
Jan 08 08:10:30 <mranostay> _av500_: how is it rocking in the FRA?
Jan 08 08:10:50 <ds2> ka6sox: shouldn't u old folks be getting ready for the buffet lunch at 8AM?
Jan 08 08:11:45 <ka6sox> 9am
Jan 08 08:12:27 <mranostay> seems QEI cape has overrun everyone
Jan 08 08:16:52 <_av500_> mranostay: in the .fr now :)
Jan 08 08:17:12 <ds2> _av500_: for fun?
Jan 08 08:17:23 <_av500_> well
Jan 08 08:19:50 <KotH> _av500_: admitt it! you just want to meet j-b!
Jan 08 08:21:00 <mranostay> why would anyone go to France? :)
Jan 08 08:24:51 <mranostay> right panto?
Jan 08 08:25:05 <panto> good morning
Jan 08 08:25:15 <panto> what ever you say mranostay I support the opposite
Jan 08 08:26:24 <mranostay> panto: that isn't completely true :)
Jan 08 08:26:50 <panto> rarely
Jan 08 08:32:32 <mrpackethead_> they have nice cheese in france
Jan 08 08:32:58 <mranostay> but the french people :)
Jan 08 08:33:24 <mrpackethead_> which cape is winning.
Jan 08 08:33:33 <mranostay> well they have to judge it
Jan 08 08:33:47 <mranostay> i noticed i forgot to upload BOM file today
Jan 08 08:34:14 <mrpackethead_> mranostay: you are the weakest link.
Jan 08 08:34:19 <mrpackethead_> BUZZZ!
Jan 08 08:34:31 <mrpackethead_> you have been voted off the island.
Jan 08 08:34:49 <mranostay> yeah well i uploaded it pretty easily
Jan 08 08:36:28 <mrpackethead_> hpefuly they missed it
Jan 08 08:36:30 <mrpackethead_> :-)
Jan 08 08:37:03 <mranostay> who's side are you on? :)
Jan 08 08:37:18 <mrpackethead_> the french
Jan 08 08:38:45 <mrpackethead_> im pretty pleased with my two days of solid beagle effort
Jan 08 08:40:00 <mrpackethead_> i've got a pair of beagles converting time into Linear Time code
Jan 08 08:40:12 <mrpackethead_> and then decoding them over a UHF radio link.
Jan 08 08:42:18 <mranostay> cool i think
Jan 08 08:51:07 <mrpackethead_> i know its just moving code over from well know librarys
Jan 08 08:51:19 <mrpackethead_> but there was a cople of gotchas with the the arm stuff
Jan 08 08:51:29 <mrpackethead_> but the librarys are mostly all good
Jan 08 08:51:37 <mrpackethead_> good help from some smart people
Jan 08 08:54:21 <KotH> mranostay: hopefully you do that at a ns precision
Jan 08 08:59:57 <mranostay> KotH: eh?
Jan 08 09:00:05 * mranostay should sleep
Jan 08 09:04:59 <KotH> er... yes..
Jan 08 09:05:03 <KotH> mranostay: you've to wrong nick!
Jan 08 09:05:12 <KotH> mrpackethead_: hopefully you do that at a ns precision
Jan 08 09:05:39 <mrpackethead_> no need to do it to ns precison
Jan 08 09:05:41 * mranostay zzzzzzz's
Jan 08 09:05:57 <mrpackethead_> for this applicaiton 1ms is sufficent
Jan 08 09:06:45 <mrpackethead_> i would need to measure things but i suspect the precison is about sub 100us
Jan 08 09:06:58 <KotH> mranostay: sleep well!
Jan 08 09:07:09 <KotH> mrpackethead_: 1ms isnt fun!
Jan 08 09:07:21 <KotH> mrpackethead_: even dcf77 can do that
Jan 08 09:07:53 <KotH> mrpackethead_: with a bit of fiddling <100us is even possible
Jan 08 09:08:01 <KotH> with uhf you should be able to do <1us
Jan 08 09:08:10 <mrpackethead_> yup.
Jan 08 09:08:17 <mrpackethead_> but as i said, its not required for this
Jan 08 09:08:28 <KotH> must be a boring project then ;)
Jan 08 09:08:46 <mrpackethead_> no in fact its very interesting
Jan 08 09:09:06 <KotH> what are you doing?
Jan 08 09:09:28 <mrpackethead_> but since there are considerably larger system variances, +/- 5ms would'nt matter
Jan 08 09:09:54 <mrpackethead_> show control
Jan 08 09:10:04 <KotH> show control?
Jan 08 09:10:27 <mrpackethead_> lights, audio, pyro, mechanicals
Jan 08 09:10:43 <KotH> ah!
Jan 08 09:10:56 <KotH> well.. yes.. then ms precision is enough
Jan 08 09:10:58 <mrpackethead_> how can pryo not be ifun.
Jan 08 09:11:10 <KotH> *boooom* is always fun :)
Jan 08 09:11:13 <mrpackethead_> the pryo launch system is pnematic
Jan 08 09:11:23 <mrpackethead_> air cannon launches the shells
Jan 08 09:11:59 <mrpackethead_> a few lb/in differnece in pressure will result in a bigger differnce than a 2ms time variance.
Jan 08 09:12:27 <mrpackethead_> the signal on the UHF is low bandwidth audio
Jan 08 09:12:31 <mrpackethead_> its a very old protocol
Jan 08 09:12:32 <KotH> lb/in ^^'
Jan 08 09:12:51 <mrpackethead_> but is widely used show control
Jan 08 09:12:58 <KotH> .o0(when will people learn not to use their feet for measuring but walking)
Jan 08 09:13:11 <mrpackethead_> i can also work in kPa
Jan 08 09:13:34 <mrpackethead_> but most here seem to be of the imperial genre
Jan 08 09:13:57 * KotH plays the imperial march
Jan 08 09:14:09 <mrpackethead_> are you in china?
Jan 08 09:14:23 <KotH> ^^'
Jan 08 09:14:26 <mrpackethead_> no.. switzerland.
Jan 08 09:15:35 <mrpackethead_> es ist alles Metrik in der Schweiz
Jan 08 09:15:51 <KotH> s/M/m/
Jan 08 09:15:55 <KotH> s/ik/isch/
Jan 08 09:16:18 <mrpackethead_> 在瑞士，它的所有指标
Jan 08 09:16:21 <mrpackethead_> that will fix you
Jan 08 09:17:08 <KotH> sorry, i dont read chinese... japanese would be ok though
Jan 08 09:17:20 <mrpackethead_> sorry i dont' do japanese
Jan 08 09:17:24 <mrpackethead_> and i only do chinese poorly
Jan 08 09:17:45 <KotH> my japanese isn't better, probably
Jan 08 09:18:03 <mrpackethead_> im actually quite blown away by these beagles
Jan 08 09:18:04 <KotH> i've barely spoken a word in years
Jan 08 09:18:32 <KidBeta> mrpackethead_ how so
Jan 08 09:18:33 <mrpackethead_> highly capable bits of kit!
Jan 08 09:18:45 <mrpackethead_> well, maybe not so much teh beagle itself
Jan 08 09:19:09 <mrpackethead_> but the AM3359 packs a lot of stuff into a small package
Jan 08 09:19:46 <KotH> juup
Jan 08 09:19:52 <KotH> modern SoCs are cool!
Jan 08 09:19:58 <mrpackethead_> yes.
Jan 08 09:20:18 <KidBeta> KotH i love modern SBC's
Jan 08 09:20:20 <panto> but they are so complicated that you have to learn how to use them
Jan 08 09:20:29 * KotH liked the integrated dc/dc power supply, complete with li-ion charger in the i.mx23... but its documentation sucks
Jan 08 09:20:32 <panto> which is a tall task for people used to the old ways
Jan 08 09:20:48 <mrpackethead_> many will shoot me, but beig able to run debian ( which i'm familar with ) on it made a big starting point
Jan 08 09:20:51 <KotH> panto: well.. how old?
Jan 08 09:21:01 <KotH> panto: i grew up with hc11 and pic16c54
Jan 08 09:21:13 <panto> KotH, I caught the tail end of 68HC05
Jan 08 09:21:24 <panto> some people are still stuck there
Jan 08 09:21:36 <mrpackethead_> i'm suspecting that our PIC days might be numbered
Jan 08 09:21:37 <panto> well, maybe got to pics or avrs
Jan 08 09:21:39 <KotH> mrpackethead_: why shoot you? it's better than running ubunto or even worse android
Jan 08 09:22:00 <KotH> mrpackethead_: pic is still going strong, especially in the low end, ultra low power segment
Jan 08 09:22:21 <KotH> mrpackethead_: and they are trying to get into the 32bit, arm7-class segment as well
Jan 08 09:22:26 <mrpackethead_> yup, my compnay used more than 100k PICs last year
Jan 08 09:22:30 <panto> KotH, yes, but, the cortex M0s are coming
Jan 08 09:23:01 <mrpackethead_> but when you line up a PIC32 vs an ARM-8..
Jan 08 09:23:02 <panto> almost same power envelope, and much better s/w support
Jan 08 09:23:27 <KotH> panto: but more expensive :)
Jan 08 09:23:41 <mrpackethead_> for the styff we are involved with a few watts does'tn feature!
Jan 08 09:23:46 <panto> KotH, silicon is stupid cheap nowadays
Jan 08 09:23:55 <panto> it's the s/w costs that kill you
Jan 08 09:23:55 <mrpackethead_> our systems generally require 100's of kW's
Jan 08 09:24:16 <mrpackethead_> i do not worry about saving .5W on a processor
Jan 08 09:24:31 <mrpackethead_> when i am controlling 25kW pumps
Jan 08 09:24:45 <KotH> panto: not cheap enough
Jan 08 09:24:49 <panto> right, and I bet that's what most people use embedded parts
Jan 08 09:24:57 <panto> KotH, give it time
Jan 08 09:25:07 <KotH> panto: i've done projects, where the decision which chip to use was based on a 0.01chf difference of price
Jan 08 09:25:09 <mrpackethead_> we are not all buildign phones.
Jan 08 09:25:25 <panto> KotH, that's a bad project to do then
Jan 08 09:25:31 <KotH> panto: no
Jan 08 09:25:34 <KotH> panto: high volume
Jan 08 09:25:36 <mrpackethead_> if you build enough of something then that is a valid decison
Jan 08 09:25:50 <mrpackethead_> how long did the decision take
Jan 08 09:25:51 <KotH> panto: several 10k units produced... per month
Jan 08 09:25:56 <panto> KotH, for that kind of price difference you better sell millions
Jan 08 09:26:02 <mrpackethead_> yup
Jan 08 09:26:18 <panto> and I still posit that's a bad decision that will hurt you down the road
Jan 08 09:26:35 <mrpackethead_> the impact of a single part change probably is a day of engineering time if you are lucky
Jan 08 09:26:45 <mrpackethead_> lets say thats 800 sFr
Jan 08 09:26:52 <panto> you will sell for a couple of years, and then a competitor will come using an updated SoC
Jan 08 09:26:54 <mrpackethead_> at 0.01
Jan 08 09:26:59 <KotH> panto: the first version of it peaked at iirc 200k/month.. then they did a redesign to use an asic to get the price even lower
Jan 08 09:27:21 <panto> KotH, well, that's a clever decision
Jan 08 09:27:36 <mrpackethead_> thats 800,000 uniyd
Jan 08 09:27:37 <KotH> panto: the decision wasnt bad
Jan 08 09:27:40 <panto> but I bet the application was a pretty simple one
Jan 08 09:27:50 <panto> not huge gobs of s/w
Jan 08 09:28:07 <KotH> panto: iirc in the first year it already paid for a couple of weeks of development time
Jan 08 09:28:22 <mrpackethead_> i'm glad i dont' build massive scale electronics
Jan 08 09:28:24 <panto> KotH, right
Jan 08 09:28:29 <mrpackethead_> ie large runs
Jan 08 09:28:42 <mrpackethead_> we build 1000's of stuff, not 1,000,0000's
Jan 08 09:28:49 <KotH> mrpackethead_: same here.. our usual volume is <100 .. in total ^^'
Jan 08 09:29:04 <panto> but throw in something with a large software base, and the porting from a small constrained part will hurt you
Jan 08 09:29:09 <KotH> our latest project has a volume of 1 :-)
Jan 08 09:29:33 <panto> hehe
Jan 08 09:29:42 <mrpackethead_> what kind o things do you build
Jan 08 09:29:54 <KotH> anything that is unusual
Jan 08 09:29:55 <KotH> :)
Jan 08 09:30:29 <panto> I would like you to build a robotic octopus to use against by enemies in my underground lair
Jan 08 09:30:35 <panto> is that unusual enough?
Jan 08 09:30:44 <_av500_> no
Jan 08 09:30:49 <_av500_> thats so 2010
Jan 08 09:30:55 <KotH> from medical implants, over harsh environment electronics (high temp variations, high acceleration >10k g,..) to computer systems and space stuff
Jan 08 09:31:08 <_av500_> space isa harsh mistress
Jan 08 09:31:48 <KotH> _av500_: we're currently in discussion with a guy who wants to build a deep space probe
Jan 08 09:31:56 <KotH> _av500_: that's fucking harsh ^^'
Jan 08 09:33:00 * panto has done some ESA work 
Jan 08 09:33:09 <panto> KotH, what's the name of the guy?
Jan 08 09:33:17 <mrpackethead_> maybe you can build a probe to measure the price of eggs in mansrtrays residence
Jan 08 09:33:18 <KotH> sorry, confidential
Jan 08 09:33:35 <mrpackethead_> mr obama
Jan 08 09:33:52 <mrpackethead_> all our real projects are confidential
Jan 08 09:34:14 <mrpackethead_> our pretend ones are just bait to keep our competition guessing
Jan 08 09:34:37 <_av500_> KotH: is deep space more harsh than shallow space?
Jan 08 09:35:40 <KotH> _av500_: as long as you are around earth, you have some protection from the remaining atmosphere and magnetic field
Jan 08 09:35:56 <_av500_> right
Jan 08 09:36:10 <mrpackethead_> by the time its getting close to the target you are sending it to, you'll be dead
Jan 08 09:36:15 <mrpackethead_> so theres no need to worry
Jan 08 09:36:16 <mrpackethead_> :-)
Jan 08 09:39:43 <KotH> mrpackethead_: you dont have to believe anything i write... we are on irc after all
Jan 08 09:39:58 <KotH> mrpackethead_: but there are people here who know what kind of projects i usually do :)
Jan 08 09:45:09 <mrpackethead_> my stuff doe'snt ahve to survive space
Jan 08 09:45:17 <mrpackethead_> it just has to survive stage hands
Jan 08 09:45:24 <mrpackethead_> and lampies
Jan 08 09:45:42 <mrpackethead_> they are a fate possibly worse that the monsters in deep space
Jan 08 09:45:44 <KotH> lampies?
Jan 08 09:45:59 <mrpackethead_> a lampie is a lighting tech
Jan 08 09:46:02 <KotH> yeah.. i know how backstage looks like
Jan 08 09:46:25 <mrpackethead_> not that we use many (any) lamps now
Jan 08 09:46:28 <mrpackethead_> its all LED
Jan 08 10:03:24 <KotH> mrpackethead_: doesnt that give a very different light?
Jan 08 10:03:39 <KotH> and make things look odd...
Jan 08 10:03:49 <mrpackethead_> light is light
Jan 08 10:03:57 <mrpackethead_> you just need to learn to use it
Jan 08 10:03:59 <KotH> but spectrum is different
Jan 08 10:04:09 <mrpackethead_> is it?
Jan 08 10:04:18 <KotH> yes, very different
Jan 08 10:04:18 <mrpackethead_> yes, its diferent
Jan 08 10:04:23 <mrpackethead_> not that differnt
Jan 08 10:04:49 <mrpackethead_> but its time to go to bed
Jan 08 10:04:55 <KotH> sleep well
Jan 08 10:05:12 <pioj> Hi, I'm selling my board at the groups. If anyone's interested, please contact me.
Jan 08 11:29:46 <aholler_> as we've just talked about e-papers: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/01/07/papertab_flexible_monitor/
Jan 08 11:32:15 <aholler_> tech is getting closer to the real paper thing
Jan 08 11:41:40 <aholler_> but as the title of one of those pictures already said, get rid of the cables, please. ;)
Jan 08 11:41:57 <pioj> what about their batteries?
Jan 08 11:44:30 <joakimo> I have a question about a BeagleBone with the latest ubuntu. What config is needed to connect the board through USB.
Jan 08 11:44:55 <joakimo> My host computer is an Ubuntu 12.10 LapTop.
Jan 08 11:48:01 <panto> what do you mean connect? get a usb console?
Jan 08 11:52:31 <mdp> usbnet?
Jan 08 11:53:02 <joakimo> I mean an IP connection. The Ethernet connection works, but it must be configured through DHCP.
Jan 08 11:53:28 <joakimo> I would like a static IP connection to may PC over USB, if possible?
Jan 08 11:54:07 <mdp> I vaguely recall various hotplug incantations on older ubuntus to live with netmanager, but dunno on newish ones
Jan 08 11:54:33 <aholler_> killall -9 NetworkManager
Jan 08 11:54:43 <KotH> aholler_: now, if they would bind a hundred of them to a book, that would be a form factor i would imediatly buy :)
Jan 08 11:55:42 <KotH> mdp: last time i tryed to get networkmanager to use a fixed ip (about a year ago) i failed miserably
Jan 08 11:56:10 <aholler_> joakimo: thats basic networking setup. you have linux on both sides, so just read a book or tutorial about setting up network
Jan 08 11:56:28 <KotH> aholler_: with networkmanager, that's not so basic
Jan 08 11:56:42 <KotH> aholler_: actually, with networkmanager it becomes rocket science
Jan 08 11:56:43 <mdp> KotH: I *think* back when we had to do this a lot it was 9.xish timeframe and our lab machines just disabled netmanager..so that sounds about right..in that timeframe networkmanager could do much less than the little it can do now
Jan 08 11:57:18 <joakimo> Have anyone tried to connect an IP (Ethernet) cable between a PC and BeagleBone directely?
Jan 08 11:57:33 <mdp> KotH: I do remember thinking that they designed the network scripts and such for the 99% use case rather than somebody hosting a usbnet connection to a target ;)
Jan 08 11:58:04 <mdp> KotH: but we had to document it for customers...reason we at least tried to use Ubuntu
Jan 08 11:59:28 <aholler_> for usbnet the pc has to play server, and most people wouldn't start networkmanager on a server. but the only problem is, tutorials for configuring networkmanager seems to be rare
Jan 08 12:00:09 <mdp> hrm, I wonder if anybody would care about a J6-based Beagle*.
Jan 08 12:00:17 <aholler_> but it has a config as everything and this config isn't that complicated
Jan 08 12:00:24 <panto> J6?
Jan 08 12:00:34 <mdp> panto, a g+ reference ;)
Jan 08 12:00:54 <mdp> https://plus.google.com/u/0/108244279740379322507/posts/WHUUoGPBtbL
Jan 08 12:00:55 <panto> jacinto?
Jan 08 12:01:15 <panto> TI sure has a love affair with vertical markets
Jan 08 12:01:17 <mdp> J6/OMAP
Jan 08 12:01:30 <mdp> it's love in an elevator
Jan 08 12:01:56 <aholler_> phones burned, now attack the cars ;)
Jan 08 12:02:03 <panto> the new warewolf6 omap processor for the women's changing rooms pervert market!
Jan 08 12:02:28 <panto> better feature recognition, less chance of capture!
Jan 08 12:02:33 <mdp> panto, when you read Brad's post, you can see the excitement just like we sorta had before the reality of that automotive market sets in.
Jan 08 12:02:50 <panto> vertical markets suck IMO
Jan 08 12:02:55 <KotH> mdp: 99% use case? have fixed ips become so out of fashion?
Jan 08 12:03:02 <mdp> that particular one real sucks
Jan 08 12:03:03 <panto> but what do I know? I'm a stupid engineer
Jan 08 12:03:10 <mdp> KotH: AFAICT, yes ;)
Jan 08 12:03:18 * KotH is outfashioned then
Jan 08 12:03:22 <mdp> me too
Jan 08 12:03:26 <panto> (with a slight automotive industry burn)
Jan 08 12:03:28 <KotH> mdp: all my machines at home have fix ips
Jan 08 12:03:35 <mdp> mine too
Jan 08 12:03:36 <KotH> mdp: and public at that too.. including the printer :)
Jan 08 12:03:43 <mdp> well, it works fixed for an ethernet device
Jan 08 12:03:49 <aholler_> what's so hard with dhcp?
Jan 08 12:03:59 <mdp> I recall that networkmangler just had it's hate of usbN hardcoded
Jan 08 12:04:01 * panto admits settings up dnsmasq and doing it assignments of the home network there 
Jan 08 12:04:43 <mdp> I have stuff like network printers and infrastructure doing dhcp with a fixed IP lease via MAC..I find that more convenient for those
Jan 08 12:04:48 <mdp> panto, +1
Jan 08 12:04:51 <panto> it's an admission of the fact that everything is consumer oriented nowadays, where everything is dhcp based
Jan 08 12:05:25 <aholler_> until v6 arrives
Jan 08 12:05:30 <panto> the fact that dnsmasq has a fully rocking tftp server is even better
Jan 08 12:05:40 <mdp> aholler_: with the year of the linux desktop?
Jan 08 12:05:45 <KotH> aholler_: it's yet another system that might fail
Jan 08 12:05:54 <panto> aholler_, even if ipv6 arrives most people are too stupid to be directly connected to the internet
Jan 08 12:06:06 <KotH> aholler_: my network at home is designed in a way that each and every machine can fail w/o much impact on what i can do
Jan 08 12:06:08 <aholler_> panto: that never will change
Jan 08 12:06:15 <KotH> aholler_: a dhcp server would be a spf
Jan 08 12:06:21 <panto> hence nat will live on
Jan 08 12:06:39 <aholler_> KotH: use two of them
Jan 08 12:07:02 <KotH> aholler_: two of them to have kept in sync
Jan 08 12:07:19 <aholler_> impossible to manage
Jan 08 12:07:25 <KotH> juup
Jan 08 12:07:31 <KotH> it's just a matter of complexity
Jan 08 12:07:38 <KotH> i can do everything of that
Jan 08 12:07:40 <KotH> no problem
Jan 08 12:07:43 <mdp> panto, I find myself looking at the latest state-of-the-art in pci bus analyzers...it's been so long :)
Jan 08 12:07:44 <KotH> but it takes time
Jan 08 12:07:54 <panto> mdp, hehe
Jan 08 12:07:56 <KotH> fix ips are easy to do, easy to manage
Jan 08 12:08:21 <KotH> aholler_: and as long as it just works for me...
Jan 08 12:08:30 <KotH> aholler_: on wireless otoh, i use a dhcp server
Jan 08 12:09:33 <panto> KotH, wait until you have to tell your wife/gf how to setup fixed ips to use her laptop in your house :)
Jan 08 12:10:11 <KotH> panto: windows: no problem (at least xp, havent tried win7), macos: no problem, ubunto: no way in hell will that enter my home!
Jan 08 12:10:17 <KotH> ;)
Jan 08 12:10:34 <aholler_> omg
Jan 08 12:10:42 <mdp> will you allow Linux?
Jan 08 12:11:03 <panto> only GNU/Linux
Jan 08 12:11:25 <_av500_> BSD/Linux
Jan 08 12:11:27 <mdp> with extra RMS compliance
Jan 08 12:11:35 * panto wonders what password rms uses in his wifi AP
Jan 08 12:12:01 <KotH> panto: someone who browses the web using email does not have wifi
Jan 08 12:12:25 <panto> gee, forgot about that one
Jan 08 12:12:27 <_av500_> KotH: of course not, there is no "free" wifi driver
Jan 08 12:12:38 <_av500_> i guess he is bitbanging ethernet
Jan 08 12:12:45 <_av500_> or maybe uucp
Jan 08 12:12:48 <_av500_> over serial
Jan 08 12:12:58 * panto wonders if it's possible to bitbang 10M ethernet on the PRU
Jan 08 12:13:09 <aholler_> without rms we all would have to use win.
Jan 08 12:13:13 <KotH> panto: probably
Jan 08 12:13:36 <KotH> panto: i'd even say that a 100mbit should be possible
Jan 08 12:13:46 <KotH> panto: you only have to get 4bit@25MHz out
Jan 08 12:13:50 <KotH> that should be possible
Jan 08 12:13:55 <mdp> with PRU, all things are possible
Jan 08 12:13:56 <panto> hmm, yeah
Jan 08 12:14:02 <panto> not bad, not bad at all
Jan 08 12:14:16 <KotH> mdp: 32bit DAC?
Jan 08 12:14:25 <aholler_> just use ethercat and forget ip networking ;)
Jan 08 12:14:33 <mdp> KotH: "fix it in software!"
Jan 08 12:14:37 <KotH> lol
Jan 08 12:15:09 <KotH> there is actually something i want to do, that would require a DAC that acheives 32bit resolution
Jan 08 12:15:39 <panto> KotH, err, actual 32bit resolution?
Jan 08 12:15:47 <KotH> yes
Jan 08 12:15:55 <_av500_> koCALIBATE YOUR GOLDEN EARS?
Jan 08 12:15:57 <_av500_> OOPS :)
Jan 08 12:16:00 <_av500_> oosp
Jan 08 12:16:06 <_av500_> rgh
Jan 08 12:16:06 <aholler_> mdp: the demise had touched you hard ;)
Jan 08 12:16:13 <panto> 1bit delta sigma maybe?
Jan 08 12:16:36 <mdp> aholler_: "I'm not dead yet!"
Jan 08 12:16:39 <KotH> panto: getting from there to 32bit w/o being burried in noise is damn difficult
Jan 08 12:16:49 <panto> dunno, making a 32bit dac directly is pretty hard
Jan 08 12:17:00 <KotH> panto: on the other hand... getting 32bit w/o being burried in noise is damn difficult no matter what ^^'
Jan 08 12:17:00 <panto> you're fighting with noise
Jan 08 12:17:28 <panto> in other words you might have a 32bit adc but it's only worth for 24bits or something at best
Jan 08 12:17:47 <KotH> >24bit is doable
Jan 08 12:18:01 <KotH> and has been demonstrated doing PWM based DACs
Jan 08 12:18:06 <_av500_> KotH: make a resistor ladder DAC :)
Jan 08 12:18:15 <panto> there's always the physical world you connect to
Jan 08 12:18:30 <panto> what kind of physical properties require 32bits of precision?
Jan 08 12:18:38 <panto> something very expensive/and or scientific
Jan 08 12:18:45 <panto> anyway, I have to eat
Jan 08 12:18:46 <panto> later :)
Jan 08 12:18:48 <_av500_> panto: female color vision
Jan 08 12:18:55 <mdp> lol
Jan 08 12:18:55 <panto> omg
Jan 08 12:18:59 <panto> never though about that
Jan 08 12:18:59 <KotH> *g*
Jan 08 12:19:03 <panto> 64bit color!
Jan 08 12:19:13 <_av500_> deep color
Jan 08 12:19:19 <mdp> panto, _av500_ is *wise*
Jan 08 12:19:19 <panto> it's fuschia you dolt? can't you tell the color?
Jan 08 12:19:36 <mdp> "teal! teal is the color of the dresses!"
Jan 08 12:19:38 <panto> men have at best 16color palette
Jan 08 12:19:41 <mdp> "Huh?"
Jan 08 12:19:43 <panto> hehe, l8r
Jan 08 12:21:50 <KotH> _av500_: actually, AD makes a ADC with 31bit resolution (iirc 28bit real)
Jan 08 12:22:57 * KotH wonders whether colourblindnes is a predominantly male feat
Jan 08 12:22:58 <koen> panto: thanks for confirming that noone can spell fuchsia correctly: http://blog.xkcd.com/2010/05/03/color-survey-results/
Jan 08 12:24:20 <mdp> koen, I spell it as "reddish-purple" thank you.
Jan 08 12:24:48 <mdp> I will not be trained
Jan 08 12:25:09 <KotH> koen: beige is also a nice name that isnt possibly spelled correctly
Jan 08 12:26:42 <KotH> though, interstingly, i hardly know any non-english natives who have problems with either spelling fuchsia or beige
Jan 08 12:27:20 <mdp> "tan"
Jan 08 12:27:31 <aholler_> non-english doesn't exist for native english people
Jan 08 12:27:51 <mdp> aholler_: it's a simplified state of affairs ;)
Jan 08 12:28:59 * KotH wonders how long it will take until the english speakers will fix up their spelling
Jan 08 12:30:09 <KotH> like the germans did... eg "portemonaie" became "portmonee"
Jan 08 12:30:15 <mdp> KotH: I'm hoping we can get the UK to drop their antiquated spellings and use our improved versions.
Jan 08 12:30:33 <bradfa> color colour?
Jan 08 12:30:38 <aholler_> KotH: thats just wrong
Jan 08 12:30:42 <KotH> dough -> doh ? :)
Jan 08 12:30:57 <KotH> aholler_: hehe
Jan 08 12:30:58 <mdp> bradfa, yes, we have the correct spelling in the *nix tradition ;) saving bandwidth for the world!
Jan 08 12:31:10 <aholler_> C
Jan 08 12:31:17 <bradfa> mdp, while we're at it, can we make them pronounce things correctly?
Jan 08 12:31:18 <KotH> aholler_: most people who've learned the french spelling still use it, but the new spelling is taught at school
Jan 08 12:31:21 <koen> pavement and sidewalk are both 8 chars
Jan 08 12:31:26 <mdp> bradfa, in time, in time!
Jan 08 12:31:29 <bradfa> aluminum anyone?
Jan 08 12:32:05 <bradfa> mdp, the Canadians too
Jan 08 12:32:10 <_av500_> bradfa: yes, I have a nice Louisville Slugger :)
Jan 08 12:32:10 <mdp> bradfa, I suspect there's a movement on to get the rest of world of that weird scientificy metric system.
Jan 08 12:32:12 <bradfa> we have a bunch of those around here
Jan 08 12:32:20 <mdp> s/of the/off the/
Jan 08 12:32:23 <KotH> mdp: can you in turn adapt the worlds numeral system: ie a billion is 10^12 not 10^9
Jan 08 12:32:31 <_av500_> mdp: mention metric only when ds2 is asleep
Jan 08 12:32:46 <bradfa> mdp, I'm OK with metric, so long as I can keep my distance per unit volume for calculating car fuel economy
Jan 08 12:32:50 <mdp> _av500_, a trigger?
Jan 08 12:32:54 <bradfa> none of this volume per unit distance junk
Jan 08 12:32:54 <_av500_> yes
Jan 08 12:33:00 <aholler_> at least we accept that people have different feet
Jan 08 12:33:14 <_av500_> happy feet
Jan 08 12:33:20 <mdp> very happy
Jan 08 12:33:27 <_av500_> very feet
Jan 08 12:33:27 <mdp> aholler_: we are conformists
Jan 08 12:33:45 <_av500_> not confederates?
Jan 08 12:35:28 <mdp> _av500_: that ship has sailed
Jan 08 12:35:34 <bradfa> _av500_, confederates aren't really that popular up north
Jan 08 12:35:44 <bradfa> _av500_, maybe down in Texas?
Jan 08 12:36:11 <mdp> bradfa, go East ;)
Jan 08 12:37:08 <bradfa> mdp, confederates are more popular if I go east? To where? Syracuse? :)
Jan 08 12:37:29 <mdp> you stated a starting point of Texas...at least implicitly
Jan 08 12:37:48 <KotH> taht would be spain then :)
Jan 08 12:37:54 <bradfa> mdp, sorry, coffee has been put in mug but not yet put into head
Jan 08 12:37:59 * bradfa puts coffee into head
Jan 08 12:38:15 <mdp> bradfa, in any case, confederates are popular in pockets here..especially in the rural areas.
Jan 08 12:38:28 <mdp> "popular"
Jan 08 12:38:34 <bradfa> mdp, I can see that in ohio
Jan 08 12:38:45 <bradfa> probably some rural areas around here, too
Jan 08 12:38:49 <mdp> yes
Jan 08 12:39:09 <mdp> there's a reason it's a swing state
Jan 08 12:39:22 <mdp> many reasons
Jan 08 12:39:26 <bradfa> I saw a confederate flag on the back of a car at the supermarket this weekend, it had flat tires. correlation or causation?
Jan 08 12:39:40 <mdp> correlation
Jan 08 12:41:06 <mdp> I had a brake light out and and NRA sticker on my vehicle...that's probably correlation too. :)
Jan 08 12:41:28 <bradfa> mdp, No Reasonable Assumptions?
Jan 08 12:41:47 <KotH> no reasonable arguments
Jan 08 12:41:53 <mdp> prejudice does flow in all directions...that's a given. :)
Jan 08 12:42:19 <mdp> bradfa, you having a "heat wave" up your direction too?
Jan 08 12:42:28 <KotH> mdp: i was surprised when i learned that a friend of mine, who has been working in SF for a couple of years, joined the NRA :)
Jan 08 12:43:08 <bradfa> mdp, yes, it's nice out this morning, supposed to hit 40 this weekend
Jan 08 12:43:25 <bradfa> calm before the rest of winter... I presume
Jan 08 12:43:32 <mdp> KotH: most people don't understand the difference between NRA, the educational org and owners club..and the NRA-ILA, the separate entity that's the lobbying org...that helps to better understand things
Jan 08 12:43:46 <KotH> meh.. oo programming.. as if procedural isnt already hard enough for most people!
Jan 08 12:43:49 <_av500_> mdp: and why would we?
Jan 08 12:44:12 <mdp> _av500_: it's unimportant ;)
Jan 08 12:44:20 <KotH> mdp: uhm.. i didnt know that ^^'
Jan 08 12:44:28 <_av500_> its all a bunch of trigger happy renecks
Jan 08 12:44:31 <_av500_> rednecks
Jan 08 12:44:41 <KotH> mdp: but then.. us internal politics are of marginal value for me.. mostly just for the lulz :)
Jan 08 12:44:54 <mdp> that's because you hear what "they" want you to hear...like any other topic where the discussion is controlled. :)
Jan 08 12:45:13 <mdp> KotH: exactly..just like .ch internal politics is of limited interest to me.
Jan 08 12:45:19 <aholler_> they all had to eat to much green s*
Jan 08 12:45:23 <KotH> mdp: actually it should
Jan 08 12:45:34 <KotH> mdp: the moment the big swiss banks pull out of the US, the US is gone ;)
Jan 08 12:45:36 <mdp> limited interest
Jan 08 12:46:15 <aholler_> s/green s*/soylent green/
Jan 08 12:46:33 <mdp> we had some nice family discussions about the "why" of protests over the last year in .gr/.es ... that was nice.
Jan 08 12:46:57 <mdp> since .us news just shows a bunch of red-faced kids screaming with no commentary on "why"
Jan 08 12:47:01 <mdp> :)
Jan 08 12:47:04 <KotH> mdp: that's something most people in .gr and .es dont even get :)
Jan 08 12:47:14 <KotH> mdp: much less in the rest of europe
Jan 08 12:47:21 <_av500_> its easy
Jan 08 12:47:27 <_av500_> we germans tooks all their monex
Jan 08 12:47:30 <_av500_> money
Jan 08 12:47:35 <_av500_> true story
Jan 08 12:47:42 <KotH> _av500_: took their money and even complain about it
Jan 08 12:47:47 <mdp> not at the level of "hey, here's the solution" ... just ... the fear of losing entitlements
Jan 08 12:47:48 <_av500_> yes
Jan 08 12:48:05 <mdp> people here understand the fear of losing entitlements...it's universal.
Jan 08 12:48:27 <KotH> mdp: it's not only about entitlements
Jan 08 12:48:42 <KotH> mdp: part of it is also that if all that shit fails, people will be starving
Jan 08 12:48:57 <KotH> and that w/o any natural catastrophe or war
Jan 08 12:48:57 <_av500_> mdp: somebody comes to take away your heated driveway, people rebel!
Jan 08 12:49:23 <mdp> _av500_, I'm not the 1%! I have to plow my driveway!!!! :)
Jan 08 12:49:39 <aholler_> but you have to admit that to hand over pensions isn't that smart in regard to the state finances
Jan 08 12:50:09 <_av500_> aholler_: people can grow their greens in their back yards...
Jan 08 12:50:13 <KotH> mdp: i probably belong to the 1% of .ch...but i dont have much money... i probably choose the wrong 1% ^^'
Jan 08 12:50:19 <_av500_> that and free bread
Jan 08 12:50:32 <_av500_> worked in serbia for years
Jan 08 12:50:32 <mdp> KotH: in the larger sense, it's about the fear of not being taken care of like the past...that includes the potential of starving.
Jan 08 12:50:48 <KotH> mdp: not being taken care of?
Jan 08 12:51:13 <KotH> mdp: uhm.. i dont know whether it's true, but we heard stories about people getting up to 18 months of salary per year in .gr
Jan 08 12:51:38 <KotH> mdp: if they have been working for the government that is
Jan 08 12:51:50 <mdp> KotH: we have that type of thing here too
Jan 08 12:51:53 <mdp> bbl
Jan 08 12:52:14 <KotH> mdp: oh.. so you will be out on the streets as well, in the near future? :)
Jan 08 12:55:58 <panto> KotH, the .gr story is pretty simple; there are the chosen ones (working in the .gov sector) and the slaves that have to feed them (the private sector)
Jan 08 12:56:38 <KotH> panto: sounds like in any "democracy"
Jan 08 12:56:52 <panto> KotH, well, the money has run out
Jan 08 12:57:04 <panto> and the increased taxes are just delusional
Jan 08 12:57:15 <aholler_> if people pay them
Jan 08 12:57:27 <panto> they have tried anything besides reducing what's causing it; the size of the government
Jan 08 12:57:34 <panto> aholler_, they won't
Jan 08 12:57:51 <aholler_> panto: and many didn't
Jan 08 12:58:27 <panto> aholler_, the only way to survive is not paying taxes that aren't doing anything good to _you_
Jan 08 12:58:39 <panto> but they do pay the pensions of people you know at the ripe age of 50
Jan 08 12:58:42 * KotH ponders forbidding anyone w/o proper training in software architecture to write oo code in his company
Jan 08 12:59:04 <aholler_> KotH: you want to leave? ;)
Jan 08 12:59:17 <panto> so paying taxes in .de (no problem - you get something in return)
Jan 08 12:59:20 <KotH> aholler_: no i want to beat a few people with a lart
Jan 08 12:59:32 <panto> paying taxes in .gr (no benefit to you personally)
Jan 08 12:59:37 <aholler_> panto: that isn't true, it's annoying here too
Jan 08 12:59:50 <KotH> panto: actually, ze germans come to .ch because they pay less taxes here
Jan 08 12:59:59 <KotH> panto: beside earning more money in general
Jan 08 13:00:33 <panto> I think Thatcher said it best, the socialist will eventually run out of other people's money
Jan 08 13:00:46 * panto <- points to his home country 
Jan 08 13:03:00 <KotH> well.. do you think such arguments will convince anyone?
Jan 08 13:03:09 <KotH> having a clue is very very difficult
Jan 08 13:03:13 <panto> the prospect of hunger is a powerful motive
Jan 08 13:03:15 * KotH <- points to his company
Jan 08 13:03:30 <panto> reason only works at best for 10% of the population
Jan 08 13:04:10 <panto> the way I see it life has been too easy for the last 50 years
Jan 08 13:04:12 <KotH> sad thing is, the people i work with have more clue than most people i've ever worked with
Jan 08 13:04:30 <KotH> panto: ah.. you mean .gr needs another war
Jan 08 13:04:30 <panto> so there wasn't any selection pressure against abject stupidity
Jan 08 13:04:37 <KotH> panto: that's easy: just attack .tr :)
Jan 08 13:04:44 <panto> KotH, no, wars are pass?
Jan 08 13:05:06 <aholler_> stupidy is universal
Jan 08 13:05:14 * KotH tought that smartphones are a good IQ test these days
Jan 08 13:36:26 <panto> http://tech.fortune.cnn.com/2013/01/07/ibm-watson-slang/
Jan 08 13:36:36 <panto> somehow this made me chuckle
Jan 08 13:36:48 <panto> "think of the chil^Wsuper-computers"
Jan 08 13:39:59 * KotH wonders why people, after 4 decades of AI research still think it's possible to teach a computer all the stuff a grown up man knows in a couple of months
Jan 08 13:40:08 <KotH> there is a reason why a child behaves like a child ^^'
Jan 08 13:41:03 <panto> a computer doesn't poop and cry all the time maybe? :)
Jan 08 13:43:11 <KotH> and unless they become rebelious teenagers, they will never grow up properly :)
Jan 08 13:51:07 <aholler_> KotH: the reason is simple, humanity is resistant to learn from ancestors. so you had 4 generations of ai researchers in those 4 decades
Jan 08 13:51:59 <KotH> aholler_: s/from ancestors//
Jan 08 13:53:44 <panto> afk
Jan 08 13:56:20 <aholler_> the best ai is still brute force
Jan 08 13:57:13 <koen> jkridner1: what's the new mm#?
Jan 08 14:04:04 * mdp waits
Jan 08 14:08:09 <pioj> lo
Jan 08 14:12:28 <aholler_> ::1
Jan 08 14:27:49 <aholler_> hmm, watterott got the am335x starter kit in stock
Jan 08 14:28:57 <aholler_> dual gb ethernet and 256mb ram, funny specs
Jan 08 14:30:09 <mdp> oh?
Jan 08 14:31:03 <mdp> very similar to the edge network switch devices we built on ppc systems 7 years ago..
Jan 08 14:33:55 <_av500_> mdp: A13 is freedom: https://wiki.debian.org/FreedomBox/UniLeipzigPractical
Jan 08 14:34:10 <mdp> "Freeeeeeeedommmmm!!!!"
Jan 08 14:34:19 <_av500_> cue the hoff
Jan 08 14:34:51 <mdp> lol...28j60 enet ;)
Jan 08 14:35:37 <aholler_> serial console runs, its freedom
Jan 08 14:36:10 <mdp> I feel like it should have caution tape around it warning that it's an academic project
Jan 08 14:36:41 * mdp notes that gerald is doing ST:TNG references on a concall
Jan 08 14:37:00 <mdp> geexpoints
Jan 08 14:38:38 <effez> Where can I find instructions for installing Ubuntu on BeagleBoard xm? TNX
Jan 08 14:42:30 <aholler_> poor students
Jan 08 14:42:47 <aholler_> now they have to work without documentation
Jan 08 14:42:56 <_av500_> yes
Jan 08 14:42:58 <_av500_> its cruel
Jan 08 14:43:05 <mdp> no more exact steps
Jan 08 14:43:11 <_av500_> no codez
Jan 08 14:43:25 <_av500_> effez: tried to google "beagleboard ubuntu"?
Jan 08 14:43:33 <aholler_> just binary blobs
Jan 08 14:43:56 <aholler_> maybe the course is about licenses and reverse engineering
Jan 08 14:51:39 <aholler_> how to waste time with random hw ;)
Jan 08 14:55:49 <aholler_> especially academics should know it better
Jan 08 14:56:20 <KotH> research is about tinkering with random stuf and stumble upon new ideas
Jan 08 14:56:31 <KotH> as such, you cannot waste time as an academic ;)
Jan 08 14:58:01 <aholler_> new ideas are new, not epxloring boring stuff someone else already knews but doesn't share
Jan 08 14:59:17 <aholler_> tinkering with undocumented hw is like inventing the wheel again
Jan 08 14:59:38 <KotH> *g*
Jan 08 14:59:51 <KotH> you know that there are a few research groups trying to RE skype ? :)
Jan 08 15:06:10 <aholler_> I don't believe students should have to play with such devices. they will waste too much time with stupid problems.
Jan 08 15:07:11 <aholler_> loosing focus on stuff that matters
Jan 08 15:44:51 <mranostay> morning
Jan 08 15:48:02 <_av500_> hath broken?
Jan 08 15:50:27 <mranostay> something like that
Jan 08 15:55:55 <emeb_mac> better fix it
Jan 08 16:00:33 <mdp>  ... in software.
Jan 08 16:01:47 <Jacmet> mdp: what's the status of your am335x edma series?
Jan 08 16:02:15 <mdp> v4 is imminent..and will remove the RFC label..looking to hit the next window
Jan 08 16:02:24 * mranostay hands that off to panto 
Jan 08 16:02:25 <Jacmet> mdp: ok, nice
Jan 08 16:02:40 <Jacmet> mdp: seems am335x is broken in mainline atm though
Jan 08 16:02:45 <mdp> first version that addresses all known issues
Jan 08 16:02:58 <mdp> jacmet, how? I'm running on -rc2
Jan 08 16:03:02 <mdp> ish
Jan 08 16:03:20 <Jacmet> mdp: ahh, with an appended dtb?
Jan 08 16:03:35 <Jacmet> mdp: I'm seeing the same hang as Paul: http://www.mail-archive.com/linux-omap@vger.kernel.org/msg82297.html
Jan 08 16:03:36 <mdp> no, mainline u-boot and dtb passed in properly
Jan 08 16:03:49 <Jacmet> mdp: ok, will give that a try
Jan 08 16:04:15 <Jacmet> mdp: appended dtb is just easier to manage
Jan 08 16:04:30 <mdp> IMHO, if the whole point of DT is kernel independence, appended dtb is silly
Jan 08 16:04:50 <Jacmet> mdp: don't get me started on the pro/cons of DT ;)
Jan 08 16:04:58 <koen> would DT help with that?
Jan 08 16:05:17 <KotH> mdp: actually it is not
Jan 08 16:05:17 <Jacmet> mdp: for most embedded designs people don't really care about board independence
Jan 08 16:05:22 <panto> Jacmet, what's the problem?
Jan 08 16:05:24 <mdp> I build one .config + 3 dtbs for the 3 am33x boards I test..then load each from
Jan 08 16:05:36 <KotH> mdp: if you have silly bootloaders who dont know how to handle dtbs then it's cool to append them
Jan 08 16:05:45 <mdp> Jacmet: you're preaching to the choir..I've been down this path long before ARM decided to do DT ;)
Jan 08 16:05:48 <KotH> mdp: eg the i.mx bootloader is one of those cases
Jan 08 16:05:55 <Jacmet> panto: problem about dt in general or seperate dt?
Jan 08 16:05:56 <KotH> mdp: cant even properly pass kernel parameters
Jan 08 16:06:04 <Jacmet> mdp: I know, I also used to do ppc
Jan 08 16:06:06 <panto> Jacmet, I have it fixed in my kernel
Jan 08 16:06:35 <panto> the issue is that the dtb's are now generated in the boot/dts/ directory, instead of boot/
Jan 08 16:06:41 <panto> hang on
Jan 08 16:06:43 <Jacmet> KotH: or if you just got your fingers burned in the past with version dependencies between dtbs and kernels, so you now want them together
Jan 08 16:06:58 <mdp> panto, yeah, I had to update my build/deploy script for the constant churn :-/
Jan 08 16:07:03 <mdp> churn churn churn
Jan 08 16:07:05 <Jacmet> panto: what does that have to do with the early boot hang?
Jan 08 16:07:36 <KotH> oh.. and i like dt! for a dumbfuck like me dt is much easier to handle than boardconfigs
Jan 08 16:07:37 <panto> are you sure that the concatenated image contains a dtb?
Jan 08 16:07:40 * Jacmet updated buildroot to handle the new location around xmas
Jan 08 16:07:57 <mdp> Jacmet: at least this shows how many corner cases there are for "works" and "doesn't work"
Jan 08 16:08:23 <panto> and what is your config?
Jan 08 16:08:38 <panto> if you enable early printk for example you will hang
Jan 08 16:08:39 <Jacmet> panto: yes: make ARCH=arm CROSS_COMPILE=arm-linux- && cat arch/arm/boot/dts/am335x-bone.dtb >> arch/arm/boot/zImage&& make ARCH=arm CROSS_COMPILE=arm-linux- uImage
Jan 08 16:08:56 <Jacmet> panto: this is with bog standard omap2plus_defconfig
Jan 08 16:09:00 <mdp> KotH: when done correctly it becomes data stored in a .c file version data stored in a .dts file. same crap, different format
Jan 08 16:09:12 <mdp> the latter allows some different use cases is all
Jan 08 16:09:22 <panto> there's no such thing as bog standard I'm afraid
Jan 08 16:09:31 <panto> omap2plus_defconfig breaks more often than not for me
Jan 08 16:09:39 <KotH> mdp: ack
Jan 08 16:09:45 <mdp> KotH:  there is zero change to the requirement to have knowledge of what data to put in those files though
Jan 08 16:09:51 <KotH> mdp: but for me dt was easier to grasp and modify
Jan 08 16:10:02 <KotH> mdp: yes, call me dumb :)
Jan 08 16:10:11 <Jacmet> anyway, I'll build a new u-boot and try with a seperate dtb
Jan 08 16:10:14 <Jacmet> thanks
Jan 08 16:10:20 <mdp> KotH: nope, not dumb..it's standardized acorss all platforms and that has value
Jan 08 16:10:40 <mdp> versus each arch/subarch having a different abstraction and data structure format for handling board file level data
Jan 08 16:11:10 <mdp> KotH: so it makes sense that it's easier to understand
Jan 08 16:11:40 <mdp> but that only extends as far as the device specific bindings ;)
Jan 08 16:12:09 <KotH> mdp: even the rest
Jan 08 16:12:14 <mdp> cpsw looks vastly different than a gianfar h/w description...but both are gige.
Jan 08 16:13:14 <KotH> mdp: i worked with a soc that was barely supported in linux at that time. doing modifications using the dt system (not just the dt file, but c code related to dt as well) was easier for me, then the arm board structs
Jan 08 16:13:19 <mdp> KotH: I suspect once *everything* has bindings, people will find the .dts* to be nearly incomprehensible.
Jan 08 16:13:40 <KotH> mdp: tried the later first, failed. i was quite glad dt support was introduced just a week or two prior to that
Jan 08 16:13:48 <mdp> heh, cool
Jan 08 16:14:29 <KotH> with dt it was litterly just a day of reading docu, another day of trying the settings and it magically worked
Jan 08 16:14:34 <KotH> litteraly*
Jan 08 16:14:57 <panto> mdp, not everyone has spend ages hacking a board files like us
Jan 08 16:15:24 <KotH> but that's probably because i have had hardly any exposure to embedded linux prior to that task, so i never learned the board config stuff at all
Jan 08 16:15:24 <panto> we know our way around it now, but for a fresh guy, the dt is more easily understood
Jan 08 16:15:40 <panto> exactly
Jan 08 16:15:54 <mdp> panto, you can't compare a typical shitty ARM subarch level of board file abstraction with one that has proper DT support...it's an unfair comparison
Jan 08 16:16:17 <KotH> mdp: all SoC manufacturer supplied code is shit
Jan 08 16:16:20 <panto> well, let's talk specifics
Jan 08 16:16:28 <KotH> mdp: so it's not unfair at all ;)
Jan 08 16:16:28 <panto> take am33xx
Jan 08 16:16:43 <Jacmet> panto: the difference is that most people hacking on linux/embedded stuff knows C, but not everyone knows DT
Jan 08 16:16:50 <mdp> panto, as you know, it can be done just as nicely in C, but you give up some of the features of the independent data format approach of DT is all
Jan 08 16:16:50 <panto> which do you think is easier to modify? the am335xevm board file or the dt?
Jan 08 16:17:02 <panto> I disagree there
Jan 08 16:17:15 <mdp> panto, you can't use am33xx...it's been an example of a shitty vendor tree board file "abstraction"
Jan 08 16:17:19 <mdp> as is omap in general
Jan 08 16:17:33 <panto> mdp, that's a completely fair use :)
Jan 08 16:17:41 <panto> all the SoC manuf. board code is like that
Jan 08 16:17:51 <mdp> I think you need to travel away from ARM to find good examples
Jan 08 16:17:54 <KotH> mdp: are you telling us, that there are no nice board files in the arm subtree? ;)
Jan 08 16:17:55 <panto> and on top of that, each one is different, and has different conventions
Jan 08 16:18:14 <mdp> KotH: I've never seen one, but haven't work on all arches
Jan 08 16:18:19 <panto> dt might have issues, but they are common issues for all
Jan 08 16:18:33 <mdp> just samsungs, fsl, and ti
Jan 08 16:18:42 <mdp> and ones that aren't upstream ;)
Jan 08 16:18:48 <panto> and unfortunately ppc is not all that used for most people
Jan 08 16:18:58 <mdp> panto, that's why it's better
Jan 08 16:19:26 <panto> it's simpler because it deals with a simpler problem space
Jan 08 16:19:29 <mdp> panto, it was..and it was an example of how things were properly abstracted and easy to port with a .c/.h abstraction
Jan 08 16:19:44 <mdp> DT provided features other than "readability" there ;)
Jan 08 16:19:44 <KotH> apropos fsl... has anyone here tried the olinuxino boards from olimex?
Jan 08 16:19:59 <KotH> they are as cheap as the rpi, but w/o all that bitbang shit
Jan 08 16:20:12 <panto> unfortunately as you know, we can't fix the way the ARM move to DT has been done
Jan 08 16:20:23 <mdp> panto, and do note, that ARM is barely even started with implementing all the bindings needed to cover the complete problem space that implemented in just _existing silicon_
Jan 08 16:20:31 <panto> agreed
Jan 08 16:20:34 <mdp> panto, but we can bitch about it, yes?
Jan 08 16:20:38 <panto> you don't have to tell me about it :)
Jan 08 16:20:41 * panto stabs the world
Jan 08 16:20:41 <mdp> ;)
Jan 08 16:20:52 <mdp> that's what I was trying to get out of you
Jan 08 16:21:06 <panto> I'm pissed off already messing with early printk
Jan 08 16:22:07 <aholler_> add early console too ;)
Jan 08 16:22:18 <mdp> panto, did you see arnd's comments about ev3 on g+?
Jan 08 16:22:32 <mdp> he's downright giddy about getting upstream support for it..hehe
Jan 08 16:22:40 <koen> 1:)
Jan 08 16:22:42 <koen> -1
Jan 08 16:22:43 <panto> hehe
Jan 08 16:22:49 <mdp> lol
Jan 08 16:23:06 <mdp> ev3 is a shiny thing like mobile phones
Jan 08 16:23:16 <koen> ev3-with-one-motor.dts ev3-with-two-motors.dts ev3-with-motor-and-sensor.dts
Jan 08 16:23:23 <mdp> LOL
Jan 08 16:23:31 <mdp> #dtallthethings
Jan 08 16:23:43 <panto> DT can help with that
Jan 08 16:23:49 <koen> we'll need edma for ev3, no?
Jan 08 16:23:59 <mranostay> panto: can it walk the dog?
Jan 08 16:24:15 <mdp> koen, a little foreshadowing...we need edma for _everything_ ...
Jan 08 16:24:26 <mdp> it's proliferating
Jan 08 16:24:52 <mdp> also in dra7xx
Jan 08 16:25:47 <mdp> though it may be mostly intended for the c6ks that are publicly mentioned as being in there
Jan 08 16:25:59 <jsabeaudry> Basic stuff here, I deleted uImage and replaced it with a new one and u-boot complains it cannot find /boot/uImage, any clue what I messed up?
Jan 08 16:26:26 <mranostay> jsabeaudry: never delete just move :)
Jan 08 16:26:33 <aholler_> dpaste.org
Jan 08 16:28:07 <mdp> Jacmet: btw, I was extremely pleased with how jonhunter's DMA OF helpers/bindings made defining/routing dma channels in .dts. so don't think I hate on DT :)
Jan 08 16:29:11 <Jacmet> mdp: ;)
Jan 08 16:30:02 <mdp> Jacmet: being able to just add a "dmas = <&edma 12>;" in one of my test driver DT nodes is quite sexy, IMHO.
Jan 08 16:31:32 <jsabeaudry> mranostay, so I have to format the partition and copy files in the right order?
Jan 08 16:31:48 <mdp> panto, btw, I think I'm going to submit the .dts pieces "correctly" the way we talked about
Jan 08 16:31:56 * panto nods 
Jan 08 16:32:01 <mdp> panto, where it can actually be used by the in-driver pinctrl support
Jan 08 16:32:16 <mdp> I can't stand all the dmesg noise
Jan 08 16:32:25 <panto> oh god the early printk code is such a crufty relic
Jan 08 16:32:28 <mdp> I don't want to fight with the other people submitting stuff done incorrectly
Jan 08 16:32:52 <mdp> panto, are you going to add "early DT" support so we can have earlyprintk again? ;)
Jan 08 16:33:39 <panto> I tried for a couple of hours, but it's more work than that
Jan 08 16:33:49 <panto> there's nothing that disallows it
Jan 08 16:34:05 <mdp> it's just software, we can do anything ... with enough budget
Jan 08 16:34:22 <panto> but you'd have to walk the flat tree in assembly to find the address of the uart registers ;)
Jan 08 16:34:57 <mdp> maybe you should do something more useful and go resolve the proper way to fix the debugss clock issue upstream? joel_ seems to have given up on that one
Jan 08 16:35:12 <panto> so I said screw it, use the MACH_AM335XEVM defines for now
Jan 08 16:35:13 <mdp> :P
Jan 08 16:35:38 <mdp> panto, I went back to log_buf dumping myself
Jan 08 16:35:40 <panto> seems like it's u-boot related
Jan 08 16:35:44 <panto> mdp, don't
Jan 08 16:35:46 <mdp> but still needed the debugss clock hack
Jan 08 16:36:11 <panto> use this: http://pastebin.com/unYz1urZ
Jan 08 16:36:17 <mdp> this works
Jan 08 16:36:34 <mdp> yeah, I was happy with my one line jtag fix
Jan 08 16:36:44 <mranostay> mdp: openocd?
Jan 08 16:36:56 <mdp> yes, unmodified beaglebone
Jan 08 16:36:57 <panto> did you see the hwmod crash protection fix I posted?
Jan 08 16:37:04 <mdp> yes, very nice
Jan 08 16:37:22 <panto> it's one thing to fail, but crash like this... meh
Jan 08 16:37:34 <mdp> it's a feature
Jan 08 16:37:54 <koen> RMK: "So much for DT sorting out world hunger
Jan 08 16:37:55 <koen> and it never failing to solve any problem..."
Jan 08 16:38:35 <mranostay> hehe
Jan 08 16:38:42 <panto> I shouldn't start railing on RMK, but I just might
Jan 08 16:39:54 <mranostay> panto: peace and love man
Jan 08 16:40:11 <panto> this mach-id mess is all ARM specific crap
Jan 08 16:40:30 <panto> I still don't get it even after all this years
Jan 08 16:40:33 <panto> *these
Jan 08 16:41:21 <Jacmet> I btw find it odd how TI strips all mention of crypto support in the public TRM but then happily writes about it on the wiki
Jan 08 16:41:29 <panto> err, mdp, how can I go about to fix the debugss clock thing?
Jan 08 16:43:27 <mdp> it's a semantics issue upstream...see this: http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.linux.ports.arm.omap/89575
Jan 08 16:43:52 <mdp> and http://www.mail-archive.com/linux-omap@vger.kernel.org/msg81248.html
Jan 08 16:45:36 <mdp> so as you see, the technical issue is trivial...on current mainline I just use: https://gist.github.com/4485361 to do my work
Jan 08 16:45:52 <mdp> it just needs somebody to drive an acceptable patch that meets requirements
Jan 08 16:46:05 <panto> Vaibhav seems to handle it, but what do you want? a kernel command line switch? or a dt one?
Jan 08 16:47:58 <mdp> panto, with u-boot's poor support for env load/save from mmc, I personally find it quicker in a devel env to just rebuild the dtb and reboot ;)
Jan 08 16:48:13 <mdp> in a perfect world I'd edit bootargs easily
Jan 08 16:48:16 * panto whispers (me too)
Jan 08 16:48:29 <mdp> don't get me going about uEnv.txt
Jan 08 16:48:41 <panto> say mdp, what's the deal with uEnv.txt?
Jan 08 16:48:42 <mdp> I would kill for a nand
Jan 08 16:48:57 <buZz> does anyone know if pandaboard can do dual output to HDMI and LVDS?
Jan 08 16:48:57 <panto> the failure is not saving that crummy file
Jan 08 16:49:11 <mdp> AFAIK barebox actually does mmc-based env seamlessly (correctly)
Jan 08 16:49:15 <buZz> not cloning, but two framebuffers
Jan 08 16:49:38 <mdp> panto, makes me want to explore switching to barebox
Jan 08 16:50:01 <panto> it will just be broken in a different way
Jan 08 16:50:04 <mdp> panto, uEnv.txt is a special case...
Jan 08 16:50:08 <mdp> panto, probably
Jan 08 16:50:13 <dm8tbr> buZz: it will depend if the gen9 frankenkernel supports that ;)
Jan 08 16:50:21 <mdp> panto, need more trained bootloader writing monkeys
Jan 08 16:50:52 <buZz> dm8tbr: hehe well kernels are ment to be recompiled right ;)
Jan 08 16:51:28 <dm8tbr> buZz: sure for infinite amounts of time
Jan 08 16:51:44 <buZz> there is a reason i just work 24 hours a week :P
Jan 08 16:51:55 <mranostay> rub it in
Jan 08 16:51:57 <panto> mdp, last message http://www.mail-archive.com/linux-omap@vger.kernel.org/msg81272.html seems to imply it is going to be handled
Jan 08 16:52:24 <mdp> the implication was a little weak to me
Jan 08 16:52:29 <mdp> but hopefully, yes
Jan 08 16:52:49 <panto> I think I'll just go ahead and try to use robclark's drm driver
Jan 08 16:53:54 <ka6sox> I just decided to stop to see which tree solidifies best...too much churn.
Jan 08 16:53:58 <mdp> I'm back to driving tests
Jan 08 16:55:08 <aholler_> mdp: whats so hard loading the dtb with u-boot?
Jan 08 16:56:13 <mdp> aholler_: nothing, that's what I do
Jan 08 16:58:01 <aholler_> I do it just like with uEnv.txt and through uEnv.txt the filename for the dtb is variable
Jan 08 17:00:34 <mdp> panto, let me know if you see a patch submitted since the discussion ended 1.5 months ago..I might have missed it in my mbox
Jan 08 17:00:42 <mdp> and searches
Jan 08 17:00:54 <panto> err, no I haven't seen it
Jan 08 17:02:15 <mdp> that was right before the great purge and slowdown though.
Jan 08 17:14:11 <mranostay> mdp: even stalin would be impressed? :)
Jan 08 17:16:26 <mdp> :(
Jan 08 17:19:17 <aholler_> just use an eeprom to provide the u-boot env
Jan 08 17:19:28 <aholler_> if no flash is available
Jan 08 17:19:53 <aholler_> arn't those already required for capes?
Jan 08 17:20:27 <aholler_> u-boot-env-cape ;)
Jan 08 17:21:23 <panto> aholler_, actually there is an eeprom on the baseboard
Jan 08 17:21:34 <panto> which no-one uses
Jan 08 17:21:40 <mdp> yep
Jan 08 17:21:55 <mdp> actually, it's used for single u-boot image operation
Jan 08 17:22:03 <aholler_> so it should be a thing of minutes to use that for the u-boot env
Jan 08 17:22:16 <mdp> aholler_: does it require development?
Jan 08 17:22:29 <aholler_> I don't think so.
Jan 08 17:22:45 <mdp> Tartarus: ^^^
Jan 08 17:22:48 <aholler_> I assume u-boot can already read/write from eeprom
Jan 08 17:23:04 <mdp> it can...wondering why our people don't do this by default
Jan 08 17:23:24 <mdp> as the eeprom on the baseboard is required by all the ref boards in the am33x family
Jan 08 17:23:47 <aholler_> so it's something like read_to_mem;env import
Jan 08 17:24:10 <aholler_> or env export;write_from_mem
Jan 08 17:24:59 <aholler_> I wonder how to monetize such ideas ;)
Jan 08 17:25:24 <mdp> av500 is all about monetization, check with him
Jan 08 17:25:29 <aholler_> should make a patent :)
Jan 08 17:25:43 <aholler_> unfortunately I don't live in the us
Jan 08 17:25:48 <mdp> some of us just do it for hack value ;)
Jan 08 17:26:34 <mdp> aholler_: I have an IP lawyer friend who will take care of the filing as long as you allow me to join in the patent disclosure
Jan 08 17:27:25 <aholler_> disclosure of exact steps?
Jan 08 17:27:36 <mdp> aholler_: and clearly this is a great invention, congrats to us ;)
Jan 08 17:28:07 <aholler_> I'm awaiting an ev30 sample ;)
Jan 08 17:28:16 <mdp> me too
Jan 08 17:28:39 <aholler_> just send it to me ;)
Jan 08 17:28:59 <mdp> s/ev30/ev3/?
Jan 08 17:30:19 <aholler_> ups, yes ;)
Jan 08 17:30:30 <mdp> mrs mdp asked me why we don't get a free sample of all the cool stuff that comes across my desk...I say, "life is cruel and unfair!"
Jan 08 17:32:00 <aholler_> brick would be enough, I have enough of the required plastic around ;)
Jan 08 17:33:09 <mdp> +1
Jan 08 17:35:29 <mdp> ugh, drive dying...hurray for raid
Jan 08 17:40:05 <mdp> panto, also still have the fortran numbered IPs upstream ;)
Jan 08 17:40:16 <panto> yes
Jan 08 17:40:49 <mdp> every time I change something in my series I have to quadruple check my thinking there..good grief
Jan 08 17:45:56 <aholler_> hmm, I should look around at lego, sometimes they have a dev program
Jan 08 17:50:02 <mranostay> i'm back don't anyone panic
Jan 08 17:59:10 <emeb> we worry when we don't hear from you.
Jan 08 18:00:32 <mdp> mranostay, I almost alerted your local family members
Jan 08 18:00:38 <mdp> please be more careful
Jan 08 18:08:57 <mranostay> hi pfefferz !
Jan 08 18:09:10 * mranostay flings some binary blobs at pfefferz 
Jan 08 18:09:15 <pfefferz> hi mranostay
Jan 08 18:09:21 <pfefferz> splat
Jan 08 18:11:56 <mdp> heh
Jan 08 18:20:33 * mranostay orders more geiger tubes
Jan 08 18:21:12 <mranostay> i have a problem :)
Jan 08 18:21:36 <mdp> you are radiationd00d
Jan 08 18:36:44 <Tartarus> aholler_: bah, yes, u-boot can read/write the eeproms found on the bone, both the base one and any cape ones
Jan 08 18:37:02 <Tartarus> the 'eeprom' command even is enabled for a while now which does the batch write operation rather than individual i2c mw ....
Jan 08 18:41:51 <mranostay> hey balister_
Jan 08 18:47:28 <Crofton> urg
Jan 08 18:47:43 <mranostay> hi Crofton!
Jan 08 18:47:57 <Crofton> better
Jan 08 19:06:26 <mranostay> wmat: moose and quadcopters? :)
Jan 08 19:06:43 <wmat> absolutely!
Jan 08 19:07:27 <wmat> To bad it wasn't a bull moose though, as it would have charged
Jan 08 19:07:45 <mranostay> don't pet the moose
Jan 08 19:09:38 * wmat tries to keep BitBake/OE/Yocto separate :/
Jan 08 19:13:27 <mdp>  /Poky
Jan 08 19:29:46 <netman87> damn netmanager... making my hilight active
Jan 08 19:30:07 <netman87> mdp: type network manager next time
Jan 08 19:30:26 <dm8tbr> everyone! switch to connman, quick!
Jan 08 19:30:34 <mdp> NetworkManager(tm)
Jan 08 19:30:40 <mdp> con man!
Jan 08 19:36:36 <ahmed_> Hi have a question: If I wanted to have a secure communication between the beaglebone, and a host through the network, what would be the best library to use? I have read into OpenSSL, would that work? Or is there something better out there?
Jan 08 19:37:12 <mranostay> rot13 is all you need
Jan 08 19:37:26 <dm8tbr> stunnel might be sufficient, depending on your needs
Jan 08 19:37:30 <mranostay> ahmed_: and i think you mean a secure shell right?
Jan 08 19:39:02 <ds2> don't use a network if you need security
Jan 08 19:39:33 <alan_o> irda?
Jan 08 19:39:39 <dm8tbr> don't give physical access if you need security!
Jan 08 19:39:42 <alan_o> don't snoop my photons!
Jan 08 19:40:54 <ahmed_> Lets say I have a server and client application running on host and pc respectively
Jan 08 19:41:09 <ahmed_> there will be a bunch of client
Jan 08 19:41:33 <ahmed_> they will take info from the environment and send it back to the server
Jan 08 19:41:44 <ahmed_> perhaps the host is not the correct term to use
Jan 08 19:42:18 <ahmed_> soso thats why was thinking to using openssl, which would something like stunnel work for server/client
Jan 08 19:42:28 <ahmed_> ?*
Jan 08 19:44:08 <dm8tbr> sure, openssl or gnutls should do the trick
Jan 08 19:46:36 * alan_o needs a nap
Jan 08 19:46:51 <alan_o> or some caffeine.....
Jan 08 19:47:13 <mranostay> alan_o: BEER!
Jan 08 19:47:32 <alan_o> I think that's the opposite of what I'm looking for
Jan 08 19:47:35 <dm8tbr> caffeinated beer?
Jan 08 19:47:55 <alan_o> I think they've outlawed that here
Jan 08 19:48:05 <dm8tbr> boooo!
Jan 08 19:48:20 <mranostay> dump a 5 hour energy shot in a Sam Adams
Jan 08 19:50:32 <Russ> usually the ssl library is chosen due to licensing...
Jan 08 19:51:12 <aholler_> if one doesn't need to exchang keys, just use any cipher, like aes
Jan 08 19:52:08 <mranostay> aholler_: i read DES for a second... :)
Jan 08 19:52:14 <ahmed_> I am gonna have to look into this, but aren't we suppose to use certificates?
Jan 08 19:52:33 <aholler_> we?
Jan 08 19:52:49 <ahmed_> if you look at the boost examples
Jan 08 19:52:50 <ahmed_> http://www.boost.org/doc/libs/1_52_0/doc/html/boost_asio/example/ssl/client.cpp
Jan 08 19:53:33 <aholler_> who certificates your certicates?
Jan 08 19:53:46 <aholler_> uups +f*
Jan 08 19:53:58 <mranostay> who watches the watchmen?
Jan 08 19:54:54 <prpplague> mranostay: green arrow
Jan 08 19:55:33 <prpplague> mranostay: just bombed a phone interview, did good right up until they asked me to write a small drawing program :(
Jan 08 19:55:37 <ahmed_> I am not sure exactly, I will work without the CA set up, and just generate certificates
Jan 08 19:56:00 <ahmed_> or set up my own CA actually
Jan 08 19:56:15 <ahmed_> I am still looking into OpenSSL
Jan 08 19:56:32 <mranostay> prpplague: i hate phone interviews
Jan 08 19:56:38 <prpplague> agreed
Jan 08 19:56:42 <mranostay> esp coding ones over the phone
Jan 08 19:56:59 <prpplague> they are probably having a good laugh right about now, hehe
Jan 08 19:57:34 <mranostay> prpplague: don't you fly today?
Jan 08 19:57:49 <prpplague> mranostay: tomorrow morning
Jan 08 20:05:36 <wmat> prpplague: I bet you didn't bomb it
Jan 08 20:06:57 <mranostay> i've learned usually the inverse of what i think actually happens :)
Jan 08 20:07:08 <mranostay> unless i completely bomb it :)
Jan 08 20:16:36 <alan_o> prpplague: what do they mean by drawing program?
Jan 08 20:16:54 <alan_o> and how can you code that over the phone?
Jan 08 20:17:07 * dm8tbr thinks of 'LOGO'
Jan 08 20:17:10 <Russ> mranostay, ✈
Jan 08 20:17:17 <alan_o> dm8tbr: woot, logo
Jan 08 20:18:06 <mranostay> so is there a useful distro i can load on the FRI2? :)
Jan 08 20:18:28 <dm8tbr> yocto^wangstrom
Jan 08 20:18:35 <alan_o> mranostay: I use ubuntu on the desktop and it's great!
Jan 08 20:18:45 <alan_o> mranostay: you should try it on your FRI2
Jan 08 20:18:53 * alan_o ducks
Jan 08 20:23:33 <mranostay> dm8tbr: well correct if me i'm wrong but poky/yocto has no central package repo
Jan 08 20:24:32 <dm8tbr> mranostay: as koen mentioned it takes zero time to build a repo yourself ;)
Jan 08 20:25:26 <mranostay> ah that post
Jan 08 20:25:32 <prpplague> alan_o: i think they were more interested in how i would organize the data structures
Jan 08 20:26:01 <prpplague> alan_o: with generic shapes, i.e. circle, triangle, square, rectangle, parallelagram
Jan 08 20:30:21 <alan_o> prpplague: so they were fishing for polymorphism?
Jan 08 20:30:30 <alan_o> class Shape { }
Jan 08 20:31:19 <alan_o> virtual void draw() = 0;
Jan 08 20:31:47 * alan_o is begging for a stabbing from mranostay 
Jan 08 20:32:22 <prpplague> hehe
Jan 08 20:32:37 <Russ> prpplague, did you ask for requirements?
Jan 08 20:33:43 <prpplague> Russ: i was about to ask for a SoW and, keeping with the training from TI, 6 check point meetings....
Jan 08 20:34:32 <mranostay> hehe
Jan 08 20:34:36 <mranostay> exact steps?
Jan 08 20:34:40 <mdp> prpplague: I live in fear of those "coding interviews" ... I would fail miserably
Jan 08 20:34:59 <mdp> you probably did way better than you think
Jan 08 20:36:30 <prpplague> mdp: hehe, well i didn't vomit on anything, so that is a plus
Jan 08 20:36:49 <mdp> good
Jan 08 20:37:49 <mdp> a friend shared me her google interview questions once...I was left thinking that I could never live through that shame ;)
Jan 08 20:39:21 <alan_o> mdp: yeah, every time I see interview questions from somewhere big like that, I always wonder where they get people who can pass them.
Jan 08 20:39:50 <alan_o> mdp: so I'm glad to see someone other than me say that :)
Jan 08 20:40:06 <mdp> one was relatively softball, explain processes and threads
Jan 08 20:40:20 <alan_o> I bet a lot of people blow that one
Jan 08 20:40:32 <alan_o> I have a friend who asks people to implement memcpy or memcmp
Jan 08 20:40:35 <alan_o> and _most_ fail
Jan 08 20:40:40 <alan_o> completely fail
Jan 08 20:41:02 <mdp> other was similar to prpplague's coding question..basically trying to see how you would approach breaking a problem into data sets
Jan 08 20:41:21 <mranostay> yeah but doing it over the phone is a pain
Jan 08 20:41:45 <mdp> doing it f2f in an interview env period is a pain
Jan 08 20:42:20 <panto> bed time
Jan 08 20:42:47 <panto> cya tomorrow
Jan 08 20:48:44 <mrpackethead_> "tell me about your self"
Jan 08 20:50:22 <mdp> "I see you reporting to me in less than a year."
Jan 08 20:50:29 <mdp> try that one
Jan 08 20:51:29 <mrpackethead_> when i'm interviewing people
Jan 08 20:51:43 <mrpackethead_> i'm trying to figure out a few thign
Jan 08 20:51:49 <mrpackethead_> (a) what does this person know
Jan 08 20:52:20 <mrpackethead_> (b) what woudl i need to do to give them an environmetn where i'll get the best out of them, and they will want to stay and play
Jan 08 20:52:29 <Russ> …what will they do if I leave them in an office alone for 4 hours
Jan 08 20:52:29 <mrpackethead_> (c) what they want to do
Jan 08 20:52:49 <mdp> Russ, I don't want to know that.
Jan 08 20:52:59 <mrpackethead_> (d) how they will work with th rest of our team.
Jan 08 20:53:41 <prpplague> (e) will they get blasted at linux conferences and end up in a fountain
Jan 08 20:54:04 <Russ> +1 I'm guessing?
Jan 08 20:54:15 <Russ> also, tell me more
Jan 08 20:54:20 <prpplague> hehe
Jan 08 20:54:52 <prpplague> Russ: wasn't that the 2002 OLS?
Jan 08 20:55:17 <Russ> I wasn't there
Jan 08 20:55:54 <prpplague> Russ: hehe iirc it was 2002, they had like 10 people in the fountain out in front of the US embassy
Jan 08 20:56:16 <jsabeaudry> Trying to boot the kernel from angstrom/demo/beaglebone the kernel hangs at  Waiting for root device /dev/mmcblk0p2, I tried fsck but it did not help, anyone else encountered the issue?
Jan 08 20:57:05 <jsabeaudry> I also formatted sd card, and started from scratch
Jan 08 20:57:26 <Russ> well u-boot can read it
Jan 08 20:57:30 <mdp> prpplague: yes, and it was repeated as an example of what not to do at the opening of each successive OLS ;)
Jan 08 20:57:41 <Russ> probably pastebin your boot log, maybe someone will take a look
Jan 08 20:57:56 <Russ> and elc has no such rule?
Jan 08 20:58:40 <mdp> there were no rules back then
Jan 08 20:59:05 <prpplague> mdp: hehe
Jan 08 20:59:38 <mranostay> prpplague: nice keeping up CA to US relations :)
Jan 08 20:59:48 <prpplague> indeed
Jan 08 20:59:53 <koen> prpplague: new death in paradise starting now on bbc1
Jan 08 21:00:05 <prpplague> koen: nice! no spoilers!
Jan 08 21:00:08 <mranostay> koen: what is that?
Jan 08 21:00:18 <mdp> Russ, OLS is one of the confs cited by Val Aurora for "incidents"..that led to the LF anti-harassment policy
Jan 08 21:00:20 <mranostay> true crime show?
Jan 08 21:00:26 <koen> prpplague: I'm DVR'ing it, but signal quality is at 26%, so we'll see how it looks
Jan 08 21:00:40 <koen> mranostay: a TV series modeled after prpplague's past
Jan 08 21:00:57 <koen> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_in_Paradise_(TV_series)
Jan 08 21:01:06 <Russ> the fountain incident in particular?
Jan 08 21:01:45 <prpplague> mranostay: basically the first season is like my first year living in barbados, minus the murders
Jan 08 21:01:53 <mdp> Russ, the incidents were general comments and groping
Jan 08 21:02:24 <dm8tbr> .oO(needs creeper cards...)
Jan 08 21:03:20 <prpplague> dm8tbr: yea i've ordered some of those for ELC/ELCE, but in general i have not seen a need for it
Jan 08 21:03:29 <mranostay> so have the policies weeded some of them out?
Jan 08 21:03:33 <prpplague> dm8tbr: ELC seems to be a lot more professional
Jan 08 21:03:46 <mdp> prpplague: bummer
Jan 08 21:03:57 <mdp> we get plenty of professional at work :)
Jan 08 21:04:02 <prpplague> hehe
Jan 08 21:04:08 <dm8tbr> prpplague: you might want to read up on the 29C3 creeper-card fiasco though
Jan 08 21:04:23 <mranostay> what happened?
Jan 08 21:04:35 <prpplague> dm8tbr: hmm, i seem to recal reading that, but i don't recal the details
Jan 08 21:05:51 <dm8tbr> they were handed out without any explanation. The event never really had a harrassment problem before. As it was a hacker conference, people got 'creative' with them.
Jan 08 21:06:00 <dm8tbr> that's the very very fast forward version
Jan 08 21:06:29 <prpplague> dm8tbr: oh right
Jan 08 21:06:42 <prpplague> dm8tbr: seems like the creeps were keeping track of how many they got
Jan 08 21:06:49 <Russ> can we do the fountain thing at ELC, but without creeps?
Jan 08 21:07:12 <dm8tbr> well there weren't creeps really, people made fun out of it and tried to obtain cards
Jan 08 21:07:20 <prpplague> Russ: only if we can get mans to wear one of those borat swimsuits
Jan 08 21:08:11 <dm8tbr> but there are much better accounts than what I can provide
Jan 08 21:08:27 <prpplague> yes
Jan 08 21:08:28 <dm8tbr> blog.fefe.de has some. use google translate
Jan 08 21:08:32 * prpplague will go back an re-read
Jan 08 21:09:20 <prpplague> dm8tbr: Rachel Blum on G+ keeps on a lot of these types of issues - https://plus.google.com/u/0/107226275692313566931/posts
Jan 08 21:10:18 <dm8tbr> by no means I'm belittling the subject. Just the specific event was not done well in this context
Jan 08 21:10:31 <prpplague> dm8tbr: understood
Jan 08 21:10:42 <dm8tbr> I know you did, but there might be others
Jan 08 21:11:07 <prpplague> dm8tbr: one of my goals for 2012 is to work on getting more women embedded developers active with ELC/ELCE for 2014
Jan 08 21:12:40 <dm8tbr> the elc deadline was extended to the 10th, right?
Jan 08 21:12:47 <prpplague> yea
Jan 08 21:12:55 <prpplague> as well as the android builder summit
Jan 08 21:14:49 <prpplague> weeeee, my flight is ready for online checkin...
Jan 08 21:16:47 <mrpackethead_> does any know how how much the beagles clocks can drift over time?
Jan 08 21:17:46 <dm8tbr> prpplague: I'm still thinking if I can come up with a topic that wouldn't sound like completely out of the wazoo...
Jan 08 21:18:00 <prpplague> dm8tbr: hehe
Jan 08 21:20:08 <dm8tbr> prpplague: you were kind of encouraging meta topics, weren't you? like not strictly 'this is how I fought embedded device XYZ into submission'
Jan 08 21:20:49 <dm8tbr> but more like 'where is this embedded thing going?' 'why's this so blurry and overlapping' etc
Jan 08 21:20:50 <prpplague> dm8tbr: correct
Jan 08 21:21:06 <alan_o> prpplague: how many joke submissions do you typically get?
Jan 08 21:21:16 <alan_o> "trolling the IRC for fun and profit"
Jan 08 21:21:18 <alan_o> stuff like that
Jan 08 21:21:33 <prpplague> alan_o: surprising we haven't had any
Jan 08 21:21:47 <dm8tbr> alan_o: that could actually be a valuable submission. it would take place on the exact steps to the venue, right?
Jan 08 21:22:21 <alan_o> dm8tbr: yeah, now you're getting somewhere....
Jan 08 21:22:48 <dm8tbr> prpplague: I'll think about it if I am confident to come up with a coherent enough story to fill a time slot etc
Jan 08 21:22:50 <alan_o> "oh no, you don't understand; I don't _need_ presentation room"
Jan 08 21:22:58 * prpplague heads of to prepare for tomorrow
Jan 08 21:23:03 <prpplague> dm8tbr: dandy!
Jan 08 21:23:06 <dm8tbr> s/need/want/
Jan 08 21:23:07 <dm8tbr> FTFY!
Jan 08 21:24:40 <mdp> alan_o, they're in dire need of a submission that violates "The Policy"
Jan 08 21:24:48 <mdp> that'll be a good start
Jan 08 21:25:13 <alan_o> Thinking of making an account named Dave Anders and submitting some.....
Jan 08 21:42:30 <mdp> aholler_: looks like you also hit the lockdep splats
Jan 08 22:17:31 <mranostay> welcome davest
Jan 08 22:21:16 <mrpackethead_> has anyone had any expereince with the LCD3 cape?
Jan 08 22:24:03 <aholler_> mdp: with udlfb? yes
Jan 08 22:24:31 <mdp> I hit it on a similar driver...st7735fb that also uses defio
Jan 08 22:24:40 <mdp> that patch fixed it for me as well
Jan 08 22:24:48 <mdp> I may add my reply in to the ever growing thread
Jan 08 22:28:30 <davest> morning mranostay
Jan 08 23:08:03 <aholler_> mdp: but I'm not sure about what you are talking, I've just assumed it's udlfb, because that was the last patch I've posted ;)
Jan 08 23:10:26 <mdp> alan's original patch: https://patchwork.kernel.org/patch/1757061/
Jan 08 23:11:02 <aholler_> ah, that one. hmm, i didn't need it.
Jan 08 23:11:36 <aholler_> at least I think so. but i use it anyway, so I can't really say ;)
Jan 08 23:13:26 <aholler_> just write a "I am crap" helper ;)
Jan 08 23:20:52 <mranostay> jkridner1: so how goes the judging? :)
Jan 08 23:22:21 <Russ> is the 'stache  twitter active?
Jan 08 23:22:45 <mranostay> stache twitter?
Jan 08 23:23:04 <Russ> it's a jkridner1 thing
Jan 08 23:23:33 <Russ> https://twitter.com/BeagleStache/
Jan 08 23:25:36 <mranostay> weird
Jan 08 23:25:55 <mranostay> it looks like all  TI peoples though
Jan 08 23:26:54 <Russ> maybe it'll get going on a wider CES audience soon
Jan 08 23:27:02 <Russ> can it do the TI "booth babe"?
Jan 08 23:27:38 <mranostay> who is the booth babe.. jkridner1 ?
Jan 08 23:28:02 <Russ> Ava
Jan 08 23:28:20 <Russ> http://bizbeatblog.dallasnews.com/2013/01/ava-will-greet-visitors-to-texas-instruments-exhibit-at-ces-this-week.html/
Jan 08 23:28:39 <mranostay> isn't that a harassment violation to use that term anymore? :)
Jan 08 23:28:53 <Russ> not if you put it in quotes
Jan 08 23:29:11 <Russ> they protect the world outside the quotes from the words inside the quotes
Jan 08 23:29:35 <mranostay> everything in quotes HR safe?
Jan 08 23:29:37 <mranostay> *is
Jan 08 23:30:10 <Russ> yes, also, sexual harassment is ok, so long as it occurs within an HR training video
Jan 08 23:31:04 <mranostay> heh
Jan 08 23:31:26 <mranostay> never had to take one of those.. yet...
Jan 08 23:32:00 <Russ> the TI one takes the above rule to new levels
Jan 08 23:32:52 <mranostay> Russ: what is the training video an episode of Mad Men
Jan 08 23:34:21 <Russ> no, but I think the punishment for violating HR policies may be to appear in a future HR video
Jan 08 23:35:10 <mranostay> hehe
Jan 08 23:35:21 <mranostay> it is all TI employees in it?
Jan 08 23:37:39 <aholler_> does it display creeper-cards when one touches it?
Jan 08 23:38:08 <mdp> mranostay, I can see Mad Men episodes be used in the HR training videos... "I'll not be talked to that way by a woman!!!"
Jan 08 23:38:34 <Russ> hmm..who was it that posted a link to those old videos on employing women?
Jan 08 23:38:53 <mranostay> the good old days? :)
Jan 08 23:39:05 <mranostay> i'm kidding of course
Jan 08 23:39:12 <mdp> mranostay, "What's wrong with this scenario? A) engineer doesn't have a scotch in hand B) doesn't have comedy track playing on LP C) secretary forgot to get his coat and hat"
Jan 08 23:39:21 <Russ> and then the mst3000 of one of them
Jan 08 23:39:39 <mdp> aholler_: +1
Jan 08 23:40:36 <mdp> aholler_: I did like the "I am crap" helper bit ;)
Jan 08 23:40:57 <mranostay> aholler_: are creeper cards like baseballs cards as you need to collect the set?
Jan 08 23:41:18 <mdp> mranostay, aren't you thinking of whales?
Jan 08 23:43:33 <Russ> there it is http://www.hulu.com/watch/278350
Jan 08 23:44:46 <mdp> I suspect this can't be viewed at ELC
Jan 08 23:45:50 <mranostay> or at work
Jan 08 23:45:52 <mdp> I'm right!
Jan 08 23:45:57 * mranostay bookmarks for later
Jan 08 23:46:01 <mdp> and yes, not on TI time!
Jan 08 23:46:02 <mdp> ;)
Jan 08 23:46:22 <mdp> awesome scope
Jan 08 23:46:35 <aholler_> mranostay: don't know, but "booth babe" and touchscreen logically leads to the creeper cards mentioned before
Jan 08 23:47:36 <mranostay> ah right
Jan 08 23:49:41 <aholler_> just all it booth-ma ;)
Jan 08 23:50:37 <mranostay> yeah that is a wet towel
Jan 08 23:55:32 <aholler_> or just give everything with a touchscreen a male name
Jan 09 00:02:40 <gabrbedd> Howdy!  Is there a tool for reading/writing registers on omap3?
Jan 09 00:03:06 <gabrbedd> I would use omapconf, but README.md says OMAP3 is not supported.
Jan 09 00:05:15 <prpplague> gabrbedd: hehe - over dependence on TI tools
Jan 09 00:05:39 <prpplague> gabrbedd: devmem2 can be easily used to read/write physical registers on any linux based system
Jan 09 00:07:42 <gabrbedd> prpplague: Thanks!  I'll check it out. :-)
Jan 09 00:08:19 <prpplague> gabrbedd: http://elinux.org/Board_Bringup_Utilities
Jan 09 00:09:28 <gabrbedd> prpplague: so, just statically compile it and go?
Jan 09 00:09:56 <prpplague> gabrbedd: yea if you don't have the same libs for your cross-compile environment
Jan 09 00:10:12 <prpplague> gabrbedd: its has very few dependencies
Jan 09 00:12:08 <XorA> yo prpplague
Jan 09 00:12:13 <prpplague> XorA: hey bud
Jan 09 00:13:37 <XorA> prpplague: whats going down?
Jan 09 00:14:07 <prpplague> XorA: just getting ready for a round of interviews
Jan 09 00:14:16 <XorA> prpplague: sweet
Jan 09 00:14:32 <XorA> assuming you have interviews to fill the round!
Jan 09 00:14:37 <prpplague> XorA: read "getting a chance to be reminded how little i know compared to what is out there with regards to computing...."
Jan 09 00:15:20 <gabrbedd> prpplague: Sweet, that works great!
Jan 09 00:15:46 <mranostay> note to self be sure your are on the right system..
Jan 09 00:16:23 * XorA did that the other day, instead of rebooting tablet rebooted desktop
Jan 09 00:16:28 <prpplague> mranostay: hehe you just do a "shutdown -h now" on the wrong machine?
Jan 09 00:16:39 <mranostay> no thank god
Jan 09 00:17:07 <prpplague> XorA: i have you beat, about 10 years ago i took down 12 department stores when i did a shutdown on what was my laptop, but was ssh'd into the server
Jan 09 00:17:36 <mranostay> prpplague: how did you cover your ***? :)
Jan 09 00:18:35 <prpplague> mranostay: hehe, told the managers that the "windows server needed to be rebooted" , then they said "ahh makes since i have to do that with my pc all the time"
Jan 09 00:18:49 <mranostay> *whew*
Jan 09 00:19:13 <mranostay> lie when all else fails :)
Jan 09 00:19:24 <aholler_> just ask for money according to the responsibility
Jan 09 00:21:58 * mranostay blames Russ 
Jan 09 00:23:58 <prpplague> mranostay: hehe you seen the videos at www.thewebsiteisdown.com ?
Jan 09 00:25:15 <ds2> shutdown is harmless
Jan 09 00:25:25 <ds2> try a newfs/mkfs in the wrong box
Jan 09 00:25:35 <XorA> hehe
Jan 09 00:25:48 <ds2> or dd..of=/dev/sda on the host and not target ;)
Jan 09 00:26:12 <mranostay> prpplague: yeah
Jan 09 00:26:17 <XorA> apparently a few people have done omap3-mkcard.sh /dev/sda
Jan 09 00:26:26 <mranostay> XorA: *bang*
Jan 09 00:26:49 <XorA> normally people who automatically prepend all commands with sudo :-D
Jan 09 00:27:18 <mranostay> passwordless sudo even
Jan 09 00:28:19 <Russ> what did I do?
Jan 09 00:28:36 <mrpackethead_> best just to be logged in as root and be careful huh.. its like wiring the mains live
Jan 09 00:28:47 <mrpackethead_> if you know it dangerous you're always careful
Jan 09 00:29:04 <mrpackethead_> if you rely on the safeguards to keep yourself safe, you'll kill yoruself one day
Jan 09 00:29:09 <XorA> mmmm, AC juice
Jan 09 00:29:11 <mrpackethead_> when they fail.
Jan 09 00:29:48 <mrpackethead_> the only times i've got a whopp acorss the fingers with the AC, is when i expected it to be dead.
Jan 09 00:29:57 <mrpackethead_> i have done lots of live wiring, and never hurt myself
Jan 09 00:35:25 <Russ> lockout tags are for wussies?
Jan 09 00:37:20 <mrpackethead_> no. . lockout tags are a safeguard
Jan 09 00:37:26 <mrpackethead_> even with something locked out
Jan 09 00:37:33 <mrpackethead_> assuming its live, is smart
Jan 09 00:38:11 <XorA> especially the idiots who are allowed to wire up 240V
Jan 09 00:39:04 <XorA> there are only about 6 currently in use colours in UK, should be fairly easy for people to put the wire in the right order, but NOPE!!!!
Jan 09 00:40:12 <Russ> uk circuits are funky
Jan 09 00:40:29 <mrpackethead_> why?
Jan 09 01:38:59 <jacekowski> XorA: 6?
Jan 09 01:39:13 <jacekowski> brown, black, grey, blue, green/yello
Jan 09 01:39:24 <XorA> red
Jan 09 01:39:52 <jacekowski> red is obsolete
Jan 09 01:45:47 <XorA> jacekowski: still in common use though
Jan 09 01:51:08 <jacekowski> it's been ages since i've seen anything that uses old colours
Jan 09 01:51:39 <jacekowski> and stuff with red colour i see is mostly to be replaced
Jan 09 02:30:31 <Russ> hooray,  my phone and network support HD voice...now I just need to find someone else who does
Jan 09 02:32:45 * mranostay backs away from Russ 
Jan 09 02:33:00 <mranostay> HD voice?
Jan 09 02:33:07 <aholler_> voip
Jan 09 02:33:09 <Russ> an upgrade from 1933
Jan 09 02:33:21 <Russ> this is actually not voip
Jan 09 02:33:35 <ka6sox> no more 8khz bw?
Jan 09 02:33:56 <mranostay> but i love aliased voice
Jan 09 02:34:11 <ka6sox> Flange FTW
Jan 09 02:34:11 <Russ> but yes, voip users who are at 16khz have been enjoying better quality for some time
Jan 09 02:34:12 <Russ> http://newsroom.t-mobile.com/articles/t-mobile-network-advancements
Jan 09 02:34:15 <Russ> it'll be like 48hz movies
Jan 09 02:34:34 <Russ> people will be confused, say it doesn't sound right, makes them feel sick
Jan 09 02:34:42 <mrpackethead_> voip with a phone is so 2006
Jan 09 02:34:52 <ka6sox> all 48hz!
Jan 09 02:35:09 <mrpackethead_> phones are so old too
Jan 09 02:35:14 <mrpackethead_> and why do i need a phone number
Jan 09 02:35:16 <Russ> 'I called my friend earl, and he didn't sound life like'
Jan 09 02:35:27 <ka6sox> party lines....
Jan 09 02:35:50 <Russ> one thing curious about 48hz hobbit, I think a couple short sequences in the fight scenes were sped up
Jan 09 02:37:38 <aholler_> Russ: it is voip, you just doesn't see it ;)
Jan 09 02:38:43 <aholler_> s/doesn't/don't/
Jan 09 02:39:43 <Russ> true enough
Jan 09 02:40:23 <Russ> wonder if I switch my home  voip to an hd codec if it'll I do a call from home to t-mobile I'll get hd
Jan 09 02:40:23 <Russ> er
Jan 09 02:40:23 <Russ> did I just write that sentence?
Jan 09 02:40:24 <Russ> I'm so, so, sorry
Jan 09 02:45:27 <aholler_> try it the other way around, call from t-mobile and have a look at the sip-signalling
Jan 09 02:45:31 <mranostay> i bet ka6sox did CW for contact in his youth :)
Jan 09 02:45:47 <mranostay> telegraph ftw
Jan 09 02:48:51 <ka6sox> smoke signals
Jan 09 02:51:20 <mranostay> ka6sox: what is the hz on that?
Jan 09 02:51:23 <mranostay> 0.2 ?
Jan 09 02:54:21 <ka6sox> mranostay, about 0.01 baud
Jan 09 02:56:39 <Russ> you can also multiplex
Jan 09 02:56:39 <Russ> and its probably handy to use pre-emphasis
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Wed Jan 09 02:59:59 2013