**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Jan 14 02:59:59 2013 Jan 14 03:24:10 prpplague: coding in front of people just remember your design patterns Jan 14 03:24:23 prpplague: in an interview your not looking for the cunning unreadable solution Jan 14 03:25:04 prpplague: also remember that a typo on a white board is not what they are caring about Jan 14 03:28:06 XorA: yea, once i get started i am ok, i think it is more of personal "glitch" , hehe Jan 14 03:28:38 prpplague: everyone blanks on occasion, its why you train yourself to fall back to basics Jan 14 03:29:03 prpplague: you need the jab and cross of coding just to get you warmed up Jan 14 03:32:54 what did i miss what did i miss. Jan 14 03:34:13 trader joes did not lie to me and I have popcorn Jan 14 03:35:20 XorA: awesome? Jan 14 03:35:45 its corn and its freshly popped! Jan 14 03:38:53 prpplague: if all else fails rum up your coffee :) Jan 14 03:39:13 mranostay: hehe Jan 14 03:43:45 hmmm, whoever did the nutritinal facts had a huge maths fail, it is apparently 94% fat free, but there is only 3% fat in the product! Jan 14 03:44:59 doh doh doh. Jan 14 03:45:29 a serving is aparently 40g there is 2g of fat, which is 3% Jan 14 03:46:01 why do I get the feeling they just threw some numbers in a tomboloa? Jan 14 03:47:03 math is haaaaard Jan 14 03:48:12 :-d Jan 14 03:59:10 gah DT strikes again Jan 14 03:59:25 spent a half hour looking for a one character bug Jan 14 04:01:09 i need to get gas and beer.. i strongly stress the last item :) Jan 14 04:27:35 mmm beer Jan 14 04:28:27 gah panto broke my nixie cape Jan 14 04:45:55 how'd he do that? Jan 14 04:46:24 changing capebus^H^H^H^H^Hdt overlays Jan 14 04:53:30 btw he turned 4-0 today so be sure to harass him about that when he logs on :) Jan 14 05:03:56 * XorA misses his high speed kettle Jan 14 05:06:54 watch water boil? Jan 14 05:07:29 grrr have to move PRUSS support up to 3.8 for my demo Jan 14 05:13:27 it's fun tracking changes on the bleeding edge. Jan 14 05:16:56 sure Jan 14 05:52:56 prpplague: have any ideas for cool pru demos with a VFD tube? Jan 14 05:59:14 will there be a cortex A9 (or A15) beagleboard? Jan 14 05:59:23 in say the next 12months Jan 14 06:00:50 er probably not Jan 14 06:01:04 or at least another name :) Jan 14 06:04:43 nimitz: thinking of an allwinner board? Jan 14 06:08:25 do they have a cortex a9? Jan 14 06:08:53 nimitz: pandaboard which has be been kinda killed Jan 14 06:12:03 eyah.. Jan 14 06:12:25 it just seems like such a great market and nothing on the horizon Jan 14 06:12:49 *no comment* Jan 14 06:21:16 <_av500_> moin Jan 14 06:21:35 oh god _av500_ is here Jan 14 06:22:00 all hail the allmighty and bitbanging av500! Jan 14 06:22:45 hey i'm the master bitbanger and mdp :) Jan 14 06:23:00 * mranostay wonders if his talk will be accepted Jan 14 06:23:08 * dm8tbr too Jan 14 06:23:17 i'm sure one will Jan 14 06:23:33 i hope the PRU one is.. Jan 14 06:23:46 my ELCE one was really just a test in public speaking Jan 14 06:23:48 :) Jan 14 06:24:32 emeb_mac: what did you submit? Jan 14 06:24:57 mranostay: wat? Not going. Jan 14 06:26:00 emeb_mac: i'm going if my paper gets submitted Jan 14 06:26:06 *accepted Jan 14 06:26:10 <-- buzzed Jan 14 06:26:24 nice. Jan 14 06:27:16 this is why i need to get my PRU code up to date with panto's changes Jan 14 06:27:49 can't present a talk about ancient tech. Jan 14 06:28:40 emeb_mac: mine is :) Jan 14 06:28:48 VFD + PRUSS Jan 14 06:30:13 make a video game by animating the segments - like those old Mattel handheld electronic games. Jan 14 06:31:39 my demo right now is having a PRU clock completely controled by the PRU Jan 14 06:32:09 independent of the Cortex-A Jan 14 06:32:42 emeb_mac: just PRU is what you are asking Jan 14 06:33:00 right Jan 14 06:33:09 yes Jan 14 06:33:23 only input is intial time from userspace Jan 14 06:34:05 two cores. one is running a loop and kicking off another interrupt to the other core to update the display with the new time Jan 14 06:34:31 once i pop up ./clock the AM335x has no clue about :) Jan 14 06:34:58 cool Jan 14 06:36:10 i'm suprised this works actually :) Jan 14 06:36:39 why? Jan 14 06:37:24 it is all magic :) Jan 14 06:38:36 i think the magic i had jobs i've had.. not the best sw guy .. not the best hw guy.. but i know both which is a rarity Jan 14 06:39:26 one hw guy was impressed a "software" guy could understand a schematic :) Jan 14 06:41:04 heh Jan 14 06:41:53 helps to be able to do both. Jan 14 06:42:12 mranostay: how good are you at RF? Jan 14 06:48:00 dm8tbr: professional i haven't done anything in RF Jan 14 06:55:17 dm8tbr: why should i learn that quick for a job interview? :P Jan 14 06:57:09 Hi i need beableboard xm debugger that can show me internal registers value like GPIO register etc. and show tlb. Plz suggest Jan 14 06:57:37 mranostay: was just wondering as that was an interesting EE asset for me in an interview. Jan 14 06:57:38 ra: bdi? Jan 14 06:58:20 but then again I live next to Nokia campus and there are many companies doing all sorts of things with software, ee and rf. :) Jan 14 06:58:51 dm8tbr: yeah techically i have no degree.. so that is fun at the third interview or so usually Jan 14 06:59:10 @ mranostay : never heard Jan 14 06:59:29 mranostay: that's why I at least got me a degree in international damagement ;) Jan 14 06:59:56 dm8tbr: yeah respect i would have just a degree in some BS field Jan 14 07:00:03 i mean bullshit btw :) Jan 14 07:00:24 ra: have any jtag debuggers? Jan 14 07:00:30 management is to a large percentage just BS ;) Jan 14 07:00:57 dm8tbr: my problem is i had time to college again it wouldn't be in tech :) Jan 14 07:01:35 and that isnt happening unless i marry someone with money :D Jan 14 07:03:04 no Jan 14 07:05:34 ra: what is you budget for one? Jan 14 07:05:39 *your Jan 14 07:06:39 * mranostay pokes prpplague for a sale :) Jan 14 07:07:29 something arround $100 Jan 14 07:09:18 hmm my BDI2000 from ebay was $150 :P Jan 14 07:11:40 plz suggest abt "Flyswatter2" Jan 14 07:12:10 mranostay: seriously ? this is really good price for BDI2000 ;) Jan 14 07:13:46 ra: well you can complain to prpplague if it doesn't work :) Jan 14 07:14:37 ebay showing $850 for BDI2000 Jan 14 07:20:45 mnt_real: yeah well i'm sure it wasn't stolen :) Jan 14 07:22:30 mranostay: nice, good price really ... Jan 14 07:23:50 any other low cost debugger for XM plz Jan 14 07:25:21 is jtag on the XM 3.3V? Jan 14 07:32:03 mranostay: the manual says :"Only 1.8V Levels are supported", I don't have an XM though Jan 14 07:33:52 @mranostay : its on 5V Jan 14 07:34:19 that seems wrong Jan 14 07:34:33 mranostay: which one ? Jan 14 07:36:15 5V Jan 14 07:36:44 i'm sure JTAG is either 1.8 or 3.3v (modern) Jan 14 07:38:49 yea, the manuals warns "DO NOT expose the JTAG header to 3.3V." Jan 14 07:39:14 then it must be 1.8 Volts Jan 14 07:39:54 ra: then you would be OK with Flyswatter2 Jan 14 07:40:37 will it show tlb and register value ? Jan 14 07:45:00 ra: do you mean cpXX registers ? probably yes, TLB list I am not sure. But I never ever used Flyswatter2. Jan 14 08:01:53 <_av500_> hmm, fresh jar of Nutella, must resist Jan 14 08:01:56 <_av500_> oops Jan 14 08:17:59 _av500_: just one jar? Jan 14 08:20:11 nutella... Jan 14 08:20:12 nnn Jan 14 08:50:50 <_av500_> KotH: yes :( Jan 14 08:58:57 do other people a favor and eleminate it with a spoon Jan 14 09:23:21 nutkilla Jan 14 09:23:24 is bad for you Jan 14 09:25:10 _av500_: i've half a dozen jars at home ;) Jan 14 09:25:23 _av500_: feel free to stop by ;) Jan 14 09:26:21 <_av500_> KotH: I still have that 2kg millenium jar Jan 14 09:39:11 eat it, before it goes bad! Jan 14 09:42:25 impossible. it is bad now. Jan 14 10:02:09 <_av500_> i looks good Jan 14 10:02:12 <_av500_> it Jan 14 10:06:58 _av500_: how long until you've finished it ? ;) Jan 14 10:09:12 <_av500_> its unopened Jan 14 10:11:20 then you don't know whether it's still good Jan 14 10:11:27 you have to open to check it! Jan 14 10:22:10 <_av500_> KotH: it looks good Jan 14 10:22:40 <_av500_> KotH: btw, just had somebody classify "grüezi" as "swiss slang" :) Jan 14 10:25:43 slang? Jan 14 10:25:47 wtf? Jan 14 10:25:51 must be a german Jan 14 10:26:13 must be the holy crème because it's still closed Jan 14 10:28:32 <_av500_> KotH: of course Jan 14 10:29:19 _av500_: educate him that this slang is one of politest standard greetings in switzerland Jan 14 10:38:17 reminds me at those little people in the locker praising a clock (mib2) Jan 14 11:01:07 <_av500_> KotH: nah Jan 14 11:01:23 <_av500_> I like to leave the world in a confused state Jan 14 11:19:38 hey Jan 14 11:19:55 <_av500_> ho Jan 14 11:20:02 let's go Jan 14 11:20:07 <_av500_> +1 Jan 14 11:21:00 <_av500_> all reved up and ready to go Jan 14 11:21:53 I don't want to burried Jan 14 11:21:55 wo düre gohts? Jan 14 11:22:04 *to be Jan 14 11:22:35 <_av500_> in pet cemetery? Jan 14 11:22:40 +1 Jan 14 11:23:29 * _av500_ buries panto in taramasalata Jan 14 11:24:27 *taramosalata Jan 14 11:25:12 <_av500_> right Jan 14 11:25:36 you do know that's fish eggs salad+salt right? Jan 14 11:26:25 <_av500_> sure Jan 14 14:55:47 I built panto's tree but the boot gets stuck at "booting the kernel". http://pastebin.ca/2302019 Any clue what could be wrong? Jan 14 14:56:44 kernel command line? Jan 14 14:56:47 console=? Jan 14 14:59:10 av500, not sure I understand your questions, I added uEnv.txt: http://pastebin.ca/2302021 Jan 14 15:02:28 stop the boot and printenv Jan 14 15:04:03 console=ttyO0,115200n8, Jan 14 15:05:12 av500, here is the whole thing: http://pastebin.ca/2302022 Jan 14 15:06:30 I think he has the earlyprintk DT hack patched in his tree Jan 14 15:06:51 so if you add "earlyprintk=serial" to your bootargs that will help... Jan 14 15:07:43 jsabeaudry: it doesn't load the dtb and skips to the default stuff Jan 14 15:07:58 therefor you see the errors Jan 14 15:10:06 aholler_, is that because mmcargs should be written mmc_args? Jan 14 15:11:05 i didn't have a look at your u-boot env. I'v just seen nothing about that dtb it should load in the log Jan 14 15:11:56 tr doing it yourself at the u-boot command line Jan 14 15:12:32 ext2load dtb; ext2load kernel; bootm addr1 - addr2 Jan 14 15:19:53 Ah, I think I understand, all those variables used in uEnv don't seem to be defined in u-boot, for example fdtaddr Jan 14 15:23:13 panto, are you using a special u-boot or just the basic angstrom one? Jan 14 15:23:35 jsabeaudry, recent u-boot Jan 14 15:24:14 panto, is that from a branch of github.com/beagleboard/u-boot ? Jan 14 15:24:24 no, mainline u-boot Jan 14 15:27:23 panto, ok thanks, I guess it's time for me to learn how to build a u-boot image Jan 14 15:27:45 on my tree you can just do: make uImage-dtb.am335x-bone Jan 14 15:28:00 and it will build a combined uImage+dtb image for you to boot Jan 14 15:30:24 jsabeaudry: you don't need a new u-boot. just fix uEnv.txt Jan 14 15:36:38 panto, nice that works, thanks! Now that I validated the build, I'll see if I can fix uEnv as suggested by aholler_ Jan 14 15:38:02 * panto watches the big board Jan 14 15:41:16 panto: need bifocals now? :) Jan 14 15:41:55 * panto points out that he doesn't wear glasses Jan 14 15:43:50 glasses of ouzo only Jan 14 15:45:33 panto wear a monocle Jan 14 15:45:45 and a top hat Jan 14 15:45:50 he wears one on grammar days Jan 14 15:46:08 the top hat is a nice touch...most people can't pull that off...but you sir... Jan 14 15:46:09 no cane? Jan 14 15:46:34 he threw the cane at the last kid to come on his lawn Jan 14 15:46:55 indubitably dear Watson Jan 14 15:47:33 Is this blank for everyone or just me? http://elinux.org/BeagleBoard Jan 14 15:48:21 500 Jan 14 15:49:22 OMG, it is full of stars Jan 14 15:49:55 panto, updated your metrics on the big board...alan_o is still ahead of you..quite frankly, alan_o may be the only person to meet his quota this month. Jan 14 15:50:09 * panto hangs head in shame Jan 14 15:50:29 mdp: I like your management style Jan 14 15:50:34 well, if you didn't waste your time working with upstream you'd have time to fulfill your day job support requirements Jan 14 15:50:38 have you considered? Jan 14 15:50:41 this is where we make the money you know Jan 14 15:50:49 lol Jan 14 15:50:54 upstream is where money goes to waste Jan 14 15:51:13 yep, wasted talking to a bunch of ungroomed neckbeards Jan 14 15:51:29 mdp: what I hate about upstream is, they never finish a kernel, they just constanly output new ones Jan 14 15:51:57 "Finished kernel tomorrow" Jan 14 15:52:17 * Crofton|work beats vendors that do not finish the job Jan 14 15:52:19 I thought by 3.8 the kernel would be 'done' Jan 14 15:53:07 big board? Jan 14 15:53:30 av500, why do you care about the kernel? you don't even run Linux over there. :) Jan 14 15:53:47 supertramp fans Jan 14 15:53:48 http://alnk.org/40heroicrabbit Jan 14 15:53:51 KotH: tracking #beagle help desk metrics Jan 14 15:54:17 mdp: oh.. Jan 14 15:54:27 mdp: you mean, people actually get support here? Jan 14 15:54:37 mdp: KotH clearly didn't read the channel handbook Jan 14 15:54:50 those that manage to ask a question seem to have the best results Jan 14 15:54:59 mdp: we should "fix" that Jan 14 15:55:05 I mean Jan 14 15:55:09 its not fair to all the others Jan 14 15:55:24 we should distribute results failry Jan 14 15:55:28 we should find a way to answer the questions that aren't asked. Jan 14 15:55:29 mdp: why should i ask question here? Jan 14 15:55:38 and answer with exact steps Jan 14 15:55:38 42 Jan 14 15:55:39 mdp: there is no chocolate in that Jan 14 15:55:48 mmm Jan 14 15:56:14 perhaps some re-tuning of the interwebs-enabled magic 8 ball apps to our channel needs Jan 14 15:56:20 mdp: and for other stuff, only av500 has been helpfull enough to receive my gratitude :) Jan 14 15:56:27 "Hey is anybody here?" Jan 14 15:56:34 42 Jan 14 15:56:38 "<8ball>: ask again later" Jan 14 15:56:51 54! Jan 14 15:56:53 dammit Jan 14 15:56:56 hehe Jan 14 15:57:14 uups, have forgotten the av math Jan 14 15:57:18 av500: btw: you still owe me one of your girls Jan 14 15:57:26 lol Jan 14 15:57:48 * mdp notes that this demand of KotH's should be captured. Jan 14 15:59:44 KotH: eh? :) Jan 14 16:00:13 mranostay, he's gonna bid against Foxconn. Jan 14 16:00:29 mranostay: long story Jan 14 16:01:36 * aholler_ offers a creeper card to panto Jan 14 16:01:47 thx Jan 14 16:01:51 uups s/panto/koth/ Jan 14 16:01:56 panto: sorry Jan 14 16:02:00 :( Jan 14 16:02:32 hehe Jan 14 16:02:42 panto: you can have mine Jan 14 16:02:55 it's kinda useless Jan 14 16:02:56 hehe Jan 14 16:03:06 did nothing to me Jan 14 16:03:13 did not creep me out at all Jan 14 16:06:11 doesn't enchance your creepy skills? Jan 14 16:06:46 ok off to day job work Jan 14 16:07:20 Happy 40, panto Jan 14 16:07:26 salut alan_o Jan 14 16:07:30 ooof Jan 14 16:07:33 hi alan_o Jan 14 16:07:40 alan_o: touchy subject :) Jan 14 16:07:43 hey guys, what's new(s)? Jan 14 16:08:00 * alan_o goes to check the log Jan 14 16:08:05 alan_o: people making fun of me because av500 owes me one of his girls Jan 14 16:08:37 I miss all the good stuff..... Jan 14 16:08:42 alan_o, you are the big board leader for the month...keep it up and you'll be salesm^H^H^H^H^H^Hhelpdesk employee of the month! Jan 14 16:08:51 woot! Jan 14 16:08:58 was that a job offer? Jan 14 16:09:08 alan_o: of $0 salary then yes Jan 14 16:09:13 dang it Jan 14 16:09:16 I already have too many of those Jan 14 16:09:26 there's a 25% bonus on top of your current helpdesk salary. Jan 14 16:09:33 nice Jan 14 16:09:50 yeah, we're pretty generous with the monetary incentives Jan 14 16:10:00 it appears beaglebot has been down a while ( jkridner1 ) Jan 14 16:10:06 you don't need to thank us..just your hard work is gratitude enough Jan 14 16:10:11 hah Jan 14 16:11:18 I'm get the feeling logging was turned off on purpose, since it isn't in the subject line anymore... Jan 14 16:11:43 I did mention one day that channel logging is against Freenode's recommended best practices. Jan 14 16:11:56 perhaps jkridner took that to heart? Jan 14 16:12:10 Someone on #libusb said that logging is ok if it's in the subject line. Jan 14 16:12:24 I can requote the Freenode suggestion Jan 14 16:12:29 if you like Jan 14 16:12:41 I read it once. I'll go look it up again. Jan 14 16:13:12 mdp: http://freenode.net/channel_guidelines.shtml Jan 14 16:13:23 there's etiquette which you mentioned...and then philosophy: "f you're considering publishing channel logs, think it through. The freenode network is an interactive environment. Even on public channels, most users don't weigh their comments with the idea that they'll be enshrined in perpetuity. For that reason, few participants publish logs." Jan 14 16:13:36 yeah Jan 14 16:13:52 first you consider the philosophy and then yes, you can decide what is more important Jan 14 16:14:01 well, I promise you, on this channel, I weigh every comment with the idea that it will be enshrined in perpetuity. Jan 14 16:14:16 on this channel only? Jan 14 16:14:23 heh Jan 14 16:14:38 it's all about the "open" internet Jan 14 16:15:09 well I know #libusb isn't logged, but the discussions hardly get non-technical over there. That's about the only other place I'm active. Jan 14 16:15:43 that channel sounds hardcore Jan 14 16:15:58 I'd hate to have #beagle logs dredged up when I'm running for president. :) Jan 14 16:16:09 mdp: when freenode changed/published the logging policy jkridner1 and I discussed it Jan 14 16:16:42 presidents are a dyinng species, no one will be abledo that in some years Jan 14 16:17:28 mdp: there's hardcore people on it, but most of the time it's CareBear\ giving user support. I try to help him when I can. Jan 14 16:18:17 I didn't realize people still use USB..isn't there something better yet? Jan 14 16:19:12 aholler_: yeah, it's easy to just not release your thesis or tax information. It's much harder to scrub a coulple decades of social media posts going back to when you were a teenager (imagining 10-20 years or so from now) Jan 14 16:19:22 mdp: Apple people talk about firewire Jan 14 16:19:29 alan_o: exactly Jan 14 16:20:14 There was something a couple years ago about the Library of Congress archiving everything posted on twitter. What a waste of money and time. Jan 14 16:20:23 hmm Jan 14 16:20:37 but yeah, that's what you'll have to deal with running for office someday. Jan 14 16:20:43 since a tweet can only be 140 chars, wont they soon have every possible combination? Jan 14 16:20:52 hmm.... Jan 14 16:20:57 is that 140 unicode symbols? Jan 14 16:21:05 damn you and your 16 bit Jan 14 16:21:17 26^140 is still large Jan 14 16:21:28 aholler_: yes, we call it big data Jan 14 16:21:50 ah, thats the reason for nsa's new data center Jan 14 16:22:08 generate every tweet and screen for terrorist content Jan 14 16:22:26 * av500 writes a funding proposal Jan 14 16:22:47 hash them and identifying terrorist will be fast Jan 14 16:22:53 yes Jan 14 16:23:04 its so easy Jan 14 16:23:06 with bog data Jan 14 16:23:09 big :) Jan 14 16:24:12 a funding disposal? Jan 14 16:24:45 yes Jan 14 16:24:54 throw money in the cloud Jan 14 16:25:52 damn c-compiler insisting on ; Jan 14 16:27:50 still better than python which insists on spaces ;) Jan 14 16:28:19 av500: use forth Jan 14 16:29:29 a couple of days ago, i got told that forth is so much better than c for hardware stuff, because you always know what forth does while for c you have no clue what the compiler produces out of your code. and c always uses a stack for function calls which wastes memory and cpu time Jan 14 16:29:36 etc pp Jan 14 16:30:13 KotH: you could say the same statements about asm and technically be correct. Jan 14 16:30:27 except for the "no clue" part. You still have _some_ clue, and you can always inspect it Jan 14 16:31:30 nothing helps with todays hw ;) Jan 14 16:31:49 alan_o: well.. most of the statments were wrong, so i didnt bother Jan 14 16:32:13 I don't know anything about forth, but language zealots are interesting. Jan 14 16:32:31 I'm sure to many, os zealots are equally interesting :) Jan 14 16:32:33 forth is basically a macro assembler that uses a stack based abstraction Jan 14 16:33:20 do you own a HP calculator? Jan 14 16:33:34 no Jan 14 16:33:39 doh Jan 14 16:33:50 they used to use forth Jan 14 16:46:44 managing pipelines and multithreading is generally better left in the hands of a compiler unless you really know what you're doing Jan 14 16:49:15 multithreading done by compilers is a dream Jan 14 16:49:37 at least if it's more than for some simple stuff Jan 14 16:51:50 thurbad, pipelines yes, multithreading? no way near that yet Jan 14 16:52:21 would you rather have multithreading done by an intern by hand? Jan 14 16:52:37 perhaps the intern shouldn't be doing it at all Jan 14 16:53:03 give each intern one thread Jan 14 16:53:05 in fact, some things are hard for a reason Jan 14 16:53:29 interns can be productive with a decent compiler where they probably couldn't otherwise Jan 14 16:54:17 dunno, fixing up bugs is harder than doing it right in the first place Jan 14 16:54:29 * thurbad has interns on the mind at the moment Jan 14 16:54:34 I don't subscribe into the idea that everyone should code Jan 14 16:54:41 boss wants me to get another one Jan 14 16:54:54 it's a trap Jan 14 16:55:01 lol, possibly Jan 14 16:55:44 * dm8tbr opens a tarp Jan 14 16:56:25 * thurbad now has yogi bear and picnic baskets on the mind Jan 14 17:00:43 thurbad, perhaps thread synchronization is too hard for interns; have them use processes, maybe that will keep them shooting each other in the foot Jan 14 17:01:05 panto: pipelining and multithreading is easy if you use the right language Jan 14 17:01:17 panto: e.g. it's a piece of cake when using VHDL Jan 14 17:01:33 hrm Jan 14 17:01:41 err, no? Jan 14 17:01:47 KotH, easy!!!!!!! Jan 14 17:01:47 yes, it is Jan 14 17:02:04 only for trivial things Jan 14 17:02:09 panto: there is even a vhdl frontend for gcc, so you can use it on arm as well :) Jan 14 17:02:53 multithreading is not hard because of syntax or language choice, it's hard because of the mental model the developer must use Jan 14 17:03:14 humans just plainly suck thinking in parallel Jan 14 17:03:15 panto: oh, that's automatic with vhdl Jan 14 17:03:27 no it isn't Jan 14 17:03:35 panto: vhdl isnt a procedural or oo or functional language, you know? Jan 14 17:03:42 it's state based Jan 14 17:03:48 panto: you cannot write code the way you are used to Jan 14 17:03:53 no, vhdl is not state based Jan 14 17:04:08 you can easily build state machines in vhdl, but that's about it Jan 14 17:04:27 point me at one piece of vhdl code that's not using states Jan 14 17:05:00 * KotH has a couple of those Jan 14 17:05:14 and you can find a lot of it on opencores too Jan 14 17:06:01 anything not completely trivial will degenerate into state juggling Jan 14 17:06:12 no it will not Jan 14 17:06:45 a good example would be signal processing Jan 14 17:06:50 that's just a big pipeline Jan 14 17:06:55 and it's non-trivial Jan 14 17:07:07 no it wouldn't, cause it's just a pipeline thing Jan 14 17:07:17 huh? Jan 14 17:07:25 oh, you mean state == internal data Jan 14 17:07:32 yes Jan 14 17:07:52 well, show me any program that does not use internal data Jan 14 17:07:58 you cannot even write a hello world w/o that Jan 14 17:08:43 my point is that vhdl is a domain specific language Jan 14 17:08:53 no it isnt Jan 14 17:09:25 why isn't it used more for anything else besides hardware? Jan 14 17:10:05 would you write a complex protocol stack in it? god knows the network people would love to Jan 14 17:10:36 it is pretty good at what it does, but it's not fit for solving general purpose problems Jan 14 17:10:55 because its i/o primitives suck Jan 14 17:10:58 that's my completely personal opinion and I'm standing by it Jan 14 17:11:05 :) Jan 14 17:11:14 KotH, that's a copout and you know it Jan 14 17:11:20 no really Jan 14 17:11:35 for most other things, it would be a fine language, if you could do proper io Jan 14 17:11:38 if the language is easily extensible, the I/O primitives should be easy enough to write Jan 14 17:11:52 and we go back to my original point Jan 14 17:12:13 if you have a very good idea of the number of I/O that you're going to do, yeah vhdl will work Jan 14 17:12:30 but, the real world is never as simple as you originally thought Jan 14 17:12:43 you will get to tweak, handle unusual conditions and so on Jan 14 17:13:16 and then, you neat state based construct will fall flat in it's face Jan 14 17:13:37 * panto has done more than my share implementing state based ITU protocols back in the day Jan 14 17:14:22 regular sequential programming just plainly deals with this much easier Jan 14 17:15:49 so, you are challenging me to write some program in vhdl and show you that non-trivial stuff is easily possible? Jan 14 17:16:54 write a mail client in it Jan 14 17:17:06 that's too hard Jan 14 17:17:39 just write a simple echo server using TCP (and handling all the error conditions) Jan 14 17:18:16 just write a ehci controller Jan 14 17:18:18 Should I be worried about "*** Warning - readenv() failed, using default environment" ? Jan 14 17:18:57 no Jan 14 17:19:00 aholler_, lol :) Jan 14 17:19:18 apparently it is super hard cough *musb* cough Jan 14 17:19:39 av500, we always told our h/w guys, "let's see you implement a speadsheet if h/w is soooo complicated" ;) Jan 14 17:21:50 I've fixed the fact that the dtb was not loading, but boot still hangs at booting kernel. There aren't any errors this time, http://pastebin.ca/2302049 Jan 14 17:22:08 errors printed out I mean Jan 14 17:22:28 err, if boot succeeds using the combined uBoot+dtb image, then something is wrong with your dtb I guess Jan 14 17:22:47 ok, now I have two of those ugly FRI2 things on my desk... Jan 14 17:23:03 panto, well it's the same dtb, when I make the combined image it does not rebuild the dtb Jan 14 17:23:06 I guess it's time to experiment with IE³802.15.4 Jan 14 17:23:11 calculus: ping Jan 14 17:23:19 jsabeaudry, make dtbs Jan 14 17:26:17 panto, everything gets dtc'ed correctly, it's your tree without any modifications Jan 14 17:26:36 jsabeaudry, that doesn't make sense Jan 14 17:26:36 who was it here who played with 6lopan? was it alan_o? Jan 14 17:26:45 yeah Jan 14 17:26:52 the combined image is just a cat uImage dtb >uimage-dtb Jan 14 17:27:09 alan_o: if I just want to make two devices talk to each other. what's the fastest road to success? ;) Jan 14 17:27:21 * dm8tbr needs a quick fix success boost Jan 14 17:27:28 hmm Jan 14 17:27:32 you want to use lowpan? Jan 14 17:27:38 need IP? Jan 14 17:27:45 or just two devices Jan 14 17:27:46 I can use bare 802.15.4 if that's easier Jan 14 17:27:58 and then progress to playing with lopan Jan 14 17:28:02 depending on your use case, that could be easier Jan 14 17:28:15 from Linux/ Jan 14 17:28:16 ? Jan 14 17:28:19 in the end I'd like to play with lopan, but I need to get a feeling for this technology first Jan 14 17:28:26 yeah Jan 14 17:28:31 panto, well something must be wrong in my uEnv, I'm really new to this stuff so I must have made an error regarding some basic thing, the addresses for example, or the bootm command Jan 14 17:28:53 dm8tbr: well if you have a beagle bone you could build/run my demo from ELC-E Jan 14 17:28:55 (getting link) Jan 14 17:29:07 dm8tbr: http://www.signal11.us/oss/elce2012/ Jan 14 17:29:09 alan_o: this is *cough* FRI2 *cough* Jan 14 17:29:21 but at least the transcievers are from TI Jan 14 17:29:37 ah, good link, time to read Jan 14 17:29:50 ok Jan 14 17:30:01 the TI transceivers aren't in the kernel yet Jan 14 17:30:11 but they're in the tree at linux-zigbee.sf.net Jan 14 17:30:24 should port easily to mainline Jan 14 17:30:28 just a couple constants changed iirc Jan 14 17:30:44 my contacts at TI have failed to get me any samples or I'd have mainlined it already. Jan 14 17:30:49 *cough* mdp *cough* Jan 14 17:31:13 ask intel for a FRI2 :) Jan 14 17:31:20 my only way to get free samples is the same as you have access to Jan 14 17:31:29 yeah, I know Jan 14 17:31:41 I'm lazy. :) Jan 14 17:31:57 or at least, I think you've told me that before..... Jan 14 17:31:58 to click a couple links? Jan 14 17:32:00 ;) Jan 14 17:32:01 hehe Jan 14 17:43:43 alan_o: http://www.ti.com/product/cc2531 does have 'free sample' buttons... Jan 14 17:47:08 alan_o: shall i call our ti sales so they can send you some samples? :) Jan 14 17:48:03 let me get some for free and resell them to alan_o Jan 14 17:50:09 * mranostay has abused the free samples in the past :) Jan 14 17:50:42 i'm going to be bummed if they ever disable my student account Jan 14 17:52:39 mranostay: did you do anything with your fri2 yet? Jan 14 17:54:55 unpack it and plugged it in basically Jan 14 17:55:17 could make it a Google wifi repeater :) Jan 14 17:55:24 if i move to MV that is Jan 14 17:55:49 * dm8tbr has the 802.15.4 part currently on his tinker-radar Jan 14 17:56:10 and maybe the CAN-bus if I can find out if it's anywhere accessible on the board Jan 14 17:57:29 anything has to be better than AT&T DSL over 40 year old copper Jan 14 17:58:56 i thought only the midwest had this horrible connectivity Jan 14 17:59:01 alan_o: the mfr boards have export restrictions :( Jan 14 17:59:04 RYRYRYRYRYRY.... Jan 14 18:00:15 koen: crypto chip? Jan 14 18:00:30 i know the pandaboard was export controlled as well, right? :) Jan 14 18:02:58 mranostay: the 6lowpan board alan_o used for his demo Jan 14 18:03:19 ah Jan 14 18:03:53 so i assume you can take it out of the country and bring it back legally? :) Jan 14 18:04:03 or should i report alan_o? :P Jan 14 18:05:16 alan_o, thanks for the 6lowpan link, /me reads Jan 14 18:06:29 so empty without mru here Jan 14 18:07:12 anyone sure he is still alive? :) Jan 14 18:09:36 anyone sure he is still alive? :)[B Jan 14 18:09:45 gah terminal hang Jan 14 18:14:13 * dm8tbr hands mranostay a bottle of terminal-lube Jan 14 18:14:53 * mranostay hands dm8tbr a creeper card Jan 14 18:16:11 that reminds me... Jan 14 18:17:19 ah of what? Jan 14 18:17:40 you'll find out soon enough :> Jan 14 18:19:50 dm8tbr: G+ ? Jan 14 18:20:24 do they have creeper-tags yet on G+? Jan 14 18:21:22 #creeper ? Jan 14 18:22:40 morning Jan 14 18:29:10 dm8tbr: what will i find out soon enough? :) Jan 14 18:37:43 koen: on the export restrictions... what's your source on that, because it seems there has been confusion about it. I ordered a 2.4GHz 802.15.4 ZENA module from microchipdirect and they sent me non-export paperwork they wanted me to sign. I replied questioning the need for it, and they retracted. I've bought the -ma modules from digikey with no mention of it, and it looks like you can get them from uk.farnell.com. Jan 14 18:39:13 The chips themselves are packaged in Thailand, so for me to get chips, I have to _import_ them. Jan 14 18:39:38 (They fab in Arizona, and ship wafers to Thailand) Jan 14 18:40:29 alan_o, the export restrictions should only apply to countries the USA doesn't like, right? Such as north korea and afghanistan, no? Jan 14 18:40:32 alan_o: digikey Jan 14 18:40:56 alan_o: I'll try uk.farnell tomorrow Jan 14 18:41:06 aes accel in hardware I don't believe can go to north korea Jan 14 18:41:53 alan_o, http://www.bis.doc.gov/encryption/default.htm Jan 14 18:42:01 bradfa: I'd assume. I mean there are countries you can't ship _anything_ into (Cuba, at least), I'd also assume there's everything in between. Jan 14 18:42:18 alan_o, you can ship cars to Cuba, but they have to be at least 12 years old iirc Jan 14 18:42:37 heh Jan 14 18:43:10 interesting. I've heard stories that there are a lot of really old cars in Cuba, like from the 50s-60s, that people keep up because they have a hard time getting newer stuff Jan 14 18:43:28 also no money :) Jan 14 18:43:36 alan_o, yeah, used cars from the vintage that's allowed to go to cuba go up in value Jan 14 18:43:41 only time used cars appreciate Jan 14 18:43:48 Stories about what's in Cuba are difficult. Different people have widely differing "knowledge" about it. Jan 14 18:44:16 all i know is i can't visit there legally :) Jan 14 18:44:17 alan_o, saw on National Geographic TV or Discovery (forget which) so I assume is true, although the 12 years is off the top of my head Jan 14 18:44:31 mranostay, get raft, drive east, float south Jan 14 18:44:36 job done Jan 14 18:44:46 mranostay, maybe "crash" Jan 14 18:44:49 near cuba Jan 14 18:44:57 USA will come save you! Jan 14 18:45:08 bradfa: I guess that's probably true then. I know a guy who went there 10 years or so ago, and argues with Cubans about what it's actually like. Jan 14 18:45:24 mranostay: you can go to Cuba if you have family there Jan 14 18:45:32 mranostay has family? Jan 14 18:45:46 I thought mranostay was a computer Jan 14 18:45:57 not dying from radiation and all Jan 14 18:46:13 alan_o: do i look cuban? :) Jan 14 18:46:39 for some amount of time to visit; can't bring too much stuff with you, etc. I've been told that the flights that have people going to cuba, they pack their suitcases to the max, and then wear like 10 shirts, jackets, whatever they can, on their bodies, and come back wearing shorts and flip-flops Jan 14 18:47:17 heh Jan 14 18:47:28 mranostay: I think you look Finnish. Or actually.... which one are you in your profile pic again? Jan 14 18:47:37 heh Jan 14 18:48:54 bradfa: when I read about the US relaxing restrictions on crypto, the conspiracy theorist in me wonders if that means the NSA has cracked the things they're letting go Jan 14 18:49:05 rofl Jan 14 18:49:06 same here Jan 14 18:50:15 alan_o, well, there's theory that nsa can break aes Jan 14 18:50:39 but if you're worried about govt breaking your crypto, you probably have snipers following you Jan 14 18:50:50 so govt breaking your crypto not really that big of a deal :) Jan 14 18:51:04 I'm more worried about script kiddies breaking crypto Jan 14 18:51:12 they're not quite as smart (at the maths) as govt Jan 14 18:51:51 alan_o, so the state of 6lowpan on linux is "not that great" I take it from your presentation? Jan 14 18:52:31 alan_o, any mail lists I should join besides vger netdev and the linux-zigbee-devel? Jan 14 18:52:32 yeah, it's really something that we entrust so much to algorithms which haven't been proven unable to be broken. Like RSA, with factoring. Factoring could very well be polynomial, and if it is, we're in big trouble. Jan 14 18:52:47 bradfa: those are the lists, yes Jan 14 18:52:51 the latter is very low traffic Jan 14 18:52:59 alan_o, k, thanks :) Jan 14 18:53:03 and as to "not that great," I mean, pretty much Jan 14 18:53:14 alan_o, I might be doing some 6lopan "real soon now" Jan 14 18:53:23 The people who are in charge don't have any time for it and some have moved onto other things Jan 14 18:53:33 It's pulling teeth to get email responses Jan 14 18:54:09 right now my company has a bit of a kluge of a network stack I made up, 6lowpan fixes many of the problems we're encoutering Jan 14 18:54:44 I have half a mind to ask for partial maintainership, and get in there and clean up the website mess. I've prodded the maintainers about it, but it's just too low on their radar. Jan 14 18:54:52 s/I/me and a another guy based off a broken iso draft spec/ Jan 14 18:55:34 what do you mean by kludge network stack? lowpan? or just 802.15.4, or something else? Jan 14 18:55:40 something else Jan 14 19:14:30 what you arguing about today sirs Jan 14 19:17:37 54 Jan 14 19:17:58 bradfa, there are non-kludge network stacks? Jan 14 19:17:59 mdp, 54? no Jan 14 19:18:09 mdp, well, mine's got extra kludge on it Jan 14 19:18:15 with a bag on the side, too Jan 14 19:18:19 and a mode bit Jan 14 19:18:28 no, I've not read ghost in the machine lately Jan 14 19:18:46 be sure your DT binding defines the mode flag Jan 14 19:18:55 mrpackethead_, we're arguing about if mranostay can go to cuba legally or not Jan 14 19:19:14 mranostay can't Jan 14 19:19:16 why does he worry about legality of everything? Jan 14 19:19:18 but others can Jan 14 19:19:29 depends if he is carrying nutella or not Jan 14 19:34:52 damn! finally found the MS COA sticker in side the netbook case. Jan 14 19:39:32 djlewis: that seems like a catch-22 :) Jan 14 19:41:06 koen: I just got on digikey's live chat to ask what specifically the restrictions on that part are, and she told me that there weren't any she could see. Jan 14 19:43:09 I'll be at FOSDEM Jan 14 19:43:23 if anyone needs anything (small) from the .us, let me know Jan 14 19:44:07 alan_o: I'll try ordering it again Jan 14 19:44:17 Crofton|work: How many cartons of cigarettes count as "small?" Jan 14 19:44:32 well Jan 14 19:44:39 that is not what I ahd in mind Jan 14 19:46:51 hehe Jan 14 19:46:52 alan_o: i don't think cigarettes are cheaper here :) Jan 14 19:47:05 mranostay: duty free tobacco from USA is MUCH cheaper Jan 14 19:47:45 USA fags 1/2 price of french fags which are 1/2 price UK fags :_D Jan 14 19:48:01 stop saying fag :) Jan 14 19:48:26 always those drug addicts... Jan 14 19:49:24 cigarettes from VA are really cheap Jan 14 19:50:10 Crofton|work: fedex me a carton? :) Jan 14 19:50:28 Crofton|work: $4 a pack? Jan 14 19:51:10 euros are much easier to get more of over there Jan 14 19:51:19 you smoke? Jan 14 19:52:04 rarely Jan 14 19:52:30 aha, from a web ph0rum, "[XYZ] help plz!!" Jan 14 19:52:35 that's where it originates Jan 14 19:52:40 Crofton|work: which hotel you in for FOSDEM Jan 14 19:52:41 ? Jan 14 19:52:57 Saint Nicolas Jan 14 19:53:05 Crofton|work: cool, me too! Jan 14 19:53:35 it is where all the cool people are Jan 14 19:53:40 hehe Jan 14 19:53:46 is that coz heating is busted? Jan 14 19:53:59 heh Jan 14 19:54:03 hope not Jan 14 19:54:11 well, it hope it is warmer than last year Jan 14 19:54:12 Ann will be there as well! Jan 14 19:54:29 cool Jan 14 19:59:50 How to know at what addess load the kernel or fdt when using ext2load ? Jan 14 20:00:38 whatever is free Jan 14 20:01:36 for the kernel just use the default ($loadaddr) Jan 14 20:01:48 i usually use a RNG to pick an address for each boot Jan 14 20:02:50 seeded by the tube of your cape? Jan 14 20:03:05 I hear if you use /dev/urandom instead of /dev/random then it boots faster Jan 14 20:03:51 and /dev/zero even more so Jan 14 20:07:00 the rad-rng Jan 14 20:07:04 Are these addresses not random enough? http://pastebin.ca/2302049 Jan 14 20:13:10 mranostay: and how do you ensure that your rng doesnt pick the same addr at each boot? Jan 14 20:13:41 KotH: well if you want to get all tin foil hat Jan 14 20:13:46 hi sakoman Jan 14 20:14:38 apropos: why do usians still use the term tin foil, when it's actually aluminium foil? Jan 14 20:15:10 for effect? Jan 14 20:15:36 why do we use feet and yards still? :) Jan 14 20:15:57 to be different Jan 14 20:18:00 to complicate measurements Jan 14 20:18:45 last time I worked on a Jeep Cherokee, it had bolts with three different measurement systems Jan 14 20:19:02 what? Jan 14 20:19:07 what was the third one? Jan 14 20:19:33 sae metric and chinese Jan 14 20:19:57 chinese bolts milled ou of spec Jan 14 20:20:03 s/ou/out Jan 14 20:20:26 Is there a way to add debug information to the "booting the kernel" step ? Jan 14 20:20:35 Some kind of verbose mode perhaps Jan 14 20:21:00 djlewis: i bet that was fun Jan 14 20:23:10 jsabeaudry: what's your prob? Jan 14 20:23:17 jsabeaudry: and when in the boot process is it? Jan 14 20:24:14 KotH, It hangs at "booting the kernel", here is one of the uEnv.txt I tried and the resulting boot log: http://pastebin.ca/2302049 Jan 14 20:25:20 jsabeaudry: make sure you dont have "quiet" in your kernel parameters Jan 14 20:25:30 jsabeaudry: make sure you have the right console device specified Jan 14 20:26:03 jsabeaudry: make sure the kernel actually hangs, ie not just not printing anything Jan 14 20:26:13 jsabeaudry: if nothing of that helps, go for early printk Jan 14 20:26:55 KotH, Thanks, will go through that, I'm sure it hangs becaus when it does not hang, I get a lot of action on the LEDs Jan 14 20:27:23 jsabeaudry: oh.. and if early printk does not help, use jtag and a debugger Jan 14 20:28:06 Gareth: pong Jan 14 20:30:16 jsabeaudry, if you're getting LED action and no console action, you're telling the kernel to be quite Jan 14 20:30:21 s/quite/quiet/ Jan 14 20:30:48 jsabeaudry, nevermind, I can't read Jan 14 20:30:54 * bradfa needs coffee Jan 14 20:33:03 I think the problem might be that I'm using 2011.09 u-boot, One of the examples I'm following is using 2012.10, anyone know where I can get a prebuilt 2012.10 for bbone? Jan 14 20:33:12 bradfa: don't bother, jsabeaudry too ;) Jan 14 20:34:05 aholler_, I tried using loadaddr, same result Jan 14 20:36:57 * bradfa puts coffee in face Jan 14 20:37:01 Right on the forum! :) Jan 14 20:37:20 now that's some cool info screens. we had those at 29C3. We totally should have them at ELC too :) Jan 14 20:37:27 prpplague: ^^^^^ Jan 14 20:39:41 bradfa: mouth would be better Jan 14 20:40:34 jsabeaudry: try help bootm, maybe yours don't like the dtb argument. Jan 14 20:41:32 dm8tbr: what info screens is that? Jan 14 20:42:01 jsabeaudry: I think its a configure option, so it could not be active for your u-boot Jan 14 20:42:21 prpplague: those screens were all over the venue. you'd see quickly what presentations are going on and what is next etc. Jan 14 20:42:47 it's open source: info-beamer.org Jan 14 20:42:54 dm8tbr: ahh Jan 14 20:42:56 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jl_nNo6yUQc Jan 14 20:42:56 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gc3FjgJ11gw Jan 14 20:42:56 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tKE3GlYGrAQ Jan 14 20:43:09 dm8tbr: we don't get a choice on what we use, it is set forth by LF Jan 14 20:43:14 sorry the URL got eaten by a grue Jan 14 20:43:20 dm8tbr: they have all of that setup for all of their conferences Jan 14 20:43:23 ic Jan 14 20:43:40 i'll passs the info along to the LF folks who handle the conferences Jan 14 20:44:03 calculus: Hey. Just wanted to see if you saw that email I sent. Jan 14 20:44:08 they were looking for better solutions back when I talked to them in redwood shores Jan 14 20:45:29 wb Crofton Jan 14 20:45:30 dm8tbr: i'll ask Jan 14 20:50:59 aholler_, Yay! It was the u-boot version! Works with 2012.10! Special thanks to Rober C Nelson for publishing the MLO and u-boot on the forum :) Jan 14 20:52:21 Gareth: yep, just saw it... unfortunate that Jason can't make it, hopefully there will be other volunteers as doing it solo is tough Jan 14 20:53:38 calculus: Yeah. I saw that too. Thats too bad. Jan 14 20:54:56 Gareth, calculus: just saw you were talking about SCaLE Jan 14 20:55:29 I was disappointed my paper wasn't accepted and that was my justification for the travel. Jan 14 20:56:04 * mranostay thinks jkridner needs a group hug Jan 14 20:56:27 * jkridner sulks in corner Jan 14 20:59:58 jkridner: Yup. was about to respond to your email. I thought that talk looked good too, unfortunately I'm one of 8 voting and we had over 200 submissions :) Jan 14 21:00:20 good problem to have Jan 14 21:00:31 jkridner: what Gareth is saying your bribe wasn't enough :P Jan 14 21:01:22 hah :) Jan 14 21:04:20 jkridner: got a second for a PM? Jan 14 21:05:06 we'll know if we try. :) Jan 14 21:05:40 panto, Now that I have a valid kernel and everything, time to try your /plugin/ stuff, I get the following error ERROR (phandle_references): Reference to non-existent node or label "am33xx_pinmux" Does that mean I'm running an old version of dtc? Jan 14 21:29:32 How do I find out how much current each pin can output (more specifically the GPIO) Jan 14 21:30:11 Instruction manual a little confusing Jan 14 21:31:19 How do I find out how much current each pin can output (more specifically the GPIO) Jan 14 21:32:48 Brad__: by "instruction manual" do you mean the TRM? Jan 14 21:35:15 Brad__, the datasheet details current specs for pins Jan 14 21:36:10 under "Buffer Strength" Jan 14 21:36:48 well, am33xx specific, dunno on old parts and two lazy to open those datasheets Jan 14 21:36:54 BeagleBone System Reference Manual is the instruction manual Jan 14 21:37:40 thats what i meant * Jan 14 21:38:15 Im kinda new to this, should I be looking at processor data sheets or BeagleBone things? Jan 14 21:38:38 Brad__: That's not really what you want. You want the datasheet for the AM3359 processor Jan 14 21:38:50 Brad__: let me find you a link Jan 14 21:39:55 Brad__: http://www.ti.com/product/am3359 Jan 14 21:39:59 http://www.ti.com/lit/gpn/am3359 Jan 14 21:39:59 Brad__, while alan_o is grabbing the link... Jan 14 21:40:05 Look for "Datasheet" down lower Jan 14 21:40:18 kk, thanks . Im gonna search for it now Jan 14 21:40:21 Also, Technical Reference Manual (TRM) tells you class-level info about that chip. Jan 14 21:40:22 Brad__: the difference is the Bone SRM is the guide to the BeagleBone "product" Jan 14 21:40:39 the datasheet has electrical and mechanical specs (including packaging) Jan 14 21:40:54 the "TRM" you hear referenced is the programmer's reference for the SoC Jan 14 21:41:17 kk :) Jan 14 21:42:41 Brad__, it's under 5K pages so should be some light reading Jan 14 21:43:26 * mdp updates alan_o's amazing big board stats for january Jan 14 21:44:38 hehe, you get half of that one Jan 14 21:44:56 actually, you should get all of it.... All I said was TRM, and was wrong :) Jan 14 21:45:44 ti has removed the sprs717 document name from the datasheet now, eh? Jan 14 21:45:51 TRM is the answer to all questions Jan 14 21:46:03 mdp, except pin drive strength :) Jan 14 21:46:04 "Nobody ever got fired for saying TRM." Jan 14 21:46:14 true that Jan 14 21:46:26 mdp, or mux Jan 14 21:46:30 * mdp fists bumps bradfa awkwardly mranostay-style. Jan 14 21:46:35 wait Jan 14 21:46:38 he has a style? Jan 14 21:46:41 stop confusing #beagle with the facts Jan 14 21:46:49 I use the term loosely Jan 14 21:46:50 raspberry pi!!!!!111!!eleven!! Jan 14 21:46:59 it's like when he has class Jan 14 21:47:20 * mdp sharpens the stick and jabs mranostay again. Jan 14 21:48:06 * bradfa wonders when am335x data sheet will get updated again... Jan 14 21:48:29 hey Jan 14 21:48:43 was at lunch what did i miss? Jan 14 21:49:31 a gaping stick wound apparently Jan 14 21:49:32 mranostay nothing Jan 14 21:49:42 mranostay, mdp says you have style Jan 14 21:49:57 not sure if that's a compliment though :) Jan 14 21:50:03 * bradfa goes home, dinner time! Jan 14 21:50:06 out of context! Jan 14 21:50:17 gangnam style? Jan 14 21:52:46 XorA, I will be in MV feb 11-22 Jan 14 21:52:56 well the last part of that I will be in SFO Jan 14 21:54:06 Crofton|work: ELC too right? Jan 14 21:55:34 Crofton|work: unless I get extension I will be back in Scotland Jan 14 21:58:18 XorA, bummer Jan 14 21:58:30 right I will be at ELC Jan 14 21:58:44 anyone looked into cheaper lodging? Jan 14 21:59:58 Crofton|work: how cheap you want in the Tenderloin? :) Jan 14 21:59:58 i'd love to attend ELC Jan 14 22:00:03 just dont' think i can swing it Jan 14 22:00:34 i'm sure the hobos out front will rent you their box for the night Jan 14 22:02:59 * mranostay fights out urge to yell over the cube wall 'will nodejs help here?' Jan 14 22:04:00 mranostay what? Jan 14 22:04:21 woglinde: inside joke here Jan 14 22:04:30 * mranostay pokes koen and mdp for reference check :P Jan 14 22:04:54 jsabeaudry, you need to make sure your base dtb has a __symbols__ node with the proper reference Jan 14 22:05:00 mranostay, civilized Jan 14 22:05:09 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bzkRVzciAZg Jan 14 22:05:40 is ELC more just a bunch fo people talking Jan 14 22:06:04 worse, they won't quit talking Jan 14 22:06:16 people insist on speech for communication at these things for some reason Jan 14 22:07:34 and then you are required to drink vast amounts of beer with them Jan 14 22:07:43 it is really horrible Jan 14 22:07:46 Crofton|work, mranostay, I'm looking for a cheaper SF hotel too Jan 14 22:07:55 let me know if you find anything Jan 14 22:07:55 dang it mdp..... Jan 14 22:08:02 i'm thinking of getting a room as well Jan 14 22:08:03 mdp: now I'm watching it again.... Jan 14 22:08:14 We should get a suite Jan 14 22:08:15 provided my talk gets accepted i don't want to commute everyday Jan 14 22:08:17 #beagle suite Jan 14 22:08:45 * mranostay hands alan_o a creeper card Jan 14 22:08:51 what? Jan 14 22:08:52 *g* Jan 14 22:08:58 red one? Jan 14 22:09:18 I wonder if the massage room still needs sponsorship..."The Creeper Card Massage Room" Jan 14 22:09:24 err, you guys, this is SF you know Jan 14 22:09:33 panto: that is overplayed :) Jan 14 22:09:43 that's because you live there now Jan 14 22:09:43 panto you mean can walking naked all the day? Jan 14 22:09:51 not anymore Jan 14 22:10:12 dear $DEITY no, it's freezing cold in Feb Jan 14 22:10:29 I looked, didn't see any suitable suites Jan 14 22:10:35 :( Jan 14 22:10:50 rent a trailer Jan 14 22:10:57 hostel is next door Jan 14 22:11:07 we could have a hostel 'suite' :P Jan 14 22:13:43 panto: i don't think the greek guy should be throwing stones :) Jan 14 22:14:46 hey, it's SF... you've been to Castro right? Jan 14 22:15:11 nope Jan 14 22:15:32 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Castro,_San_Francisco Jan 14 22:15:42 yes i know what it is :) Jan 14 22:16:49 just haven't been in that part of town Jan 14 22:17:22 or have you... and you don't want us to find out Jan 14 22:17:42 I've been there Jan 14 22:17:50 drove through Jan 14 22:18:13 Some friends who moved out there took us on a tour of SF last ELC. Jan 14 22:18:19 it's interesting Jan 14 22:18:22 the business names are funny Jan 14 22:18:48 oh well, time to go now Jan 14 22:18:52 cya guys Jan 14 22:18:56 later man Jan 14 22:18:59 panto: later old dude Jan 14 22:19:07 enjoy 40 :) Jan 14 22:19:24 panto: don't let him get you down, you look damn good for 40 :) Jan 14 22:19:37 * mranostay hands alan_o another creeper card Jan 14 22:19:43 psst, I'm not sleeping alone tonight punk. are you? Jan 14 22:19:45 :P Jan 14 22:19:49 ouch Jan 14 22:19:57 that is just not cool :) Jan 14 22:21:33 low blow Jan 14 22:22:48 mranostay: what's the conversion between creeper cards and US dollars? Jan 14 22:23:21 1/20 cent Jan 14 22:23:25 like coupons Jan 14 22:23:31 1/20 isn't bad Jan 14 22:23:34 I'm well on my way Jan 14 22:23:59 That would be funny on a conference badge, like one of those hanging parts off the bottom. Jan 14 22:24:06 yellow or red "CREEPER" Jan 14 22:24:21 kind of like the sex offender list. "Sir, you've been flagged" Jan 14 22:25:28 * mranostay maces alan_o Jan 14 22:25:54 hmm interesting reason for coupons having cash value Jan 14 22:26:01 my eyes!!! Jan 14 22:26:10 mranostay: is it now? Jan 14 22:26:29 mranostay: do tell Jan 14 22:26:45 I've always kind of wondered why 1/10000 cent is better than "no cash value" Jan 14 22:27:03 http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/296/why-do-grocery-store-coupons-say-cash-value-1-20-of-a-cent Jan 14 22:28:50 reanguiano: coming to ELC this year? Jan 14 22:32:05 can anyone point me to what the sustained read/write speeds to SD-card on a beagle would be Jan 14 22:32:22 mrpackethead_: depends on the card Jan 14 22:32:40 yes, i 'm sure it does Jan 14 22:32:50 but any idea what the beagle itself could cope with Jan 14 22:32:51 mrpackethead_: many here lament the slow speed of the one that ships with the beagles. Jan 14 22:33:17 mrpackethead_: that's a great question, one to which I don't have the answer :) Jan 14 22:33:36 i guess i might need to test this ourselves Jan 14 22:33:46 with various cards Jan 14 22:34:32 the Kingston SD card is the worse one possible Jan 14 22:34:44 i always get a sandisk in there the second i can Jan 14 22:36:21 mranostay: can't you scandisk any brand of SD card? Jan 14 22:38:51 * mranostay smacks alan_o Jan 14 22:40:31 do they ship with those kingstons? Jan 14 22:40:48 mrpackethead_: they ship with some kingstons Jan 14 22:41:00 right. Jan 14 22:41:03 alan_o: always Kingstons Jan 14 22:41:12 except my TI sample one :) Jan 14 22:41:21 i'm just working with circuitco to buy a stack of them for a project Jan 14 22:41:32 and they will supply with a card if i want Jan 14 22:42:13 or without Jan 14 22:44:03 anyone has used GPMC with a DT kernel? Jan 14 22:44:52 Oh nevermind that, it's late, I'll ask tomorrow :) Jan 14 22:44:55 good night everyone Jan 14 22:47:58 mrpackethead_: might be dated: http://www2.sakoman.com/OMAP/microsd-card-perfomance-test-results.html Jan 14 22:52:10 the cards themselves might be fast enough Jan 14 22:52:15 for my application Jan 14 22:52:41 in fact i suspect i only need to sustatin 1Mb/s Jan 14 22:52:55 so, even a sloppy class 2 might do that Jan 14 22:53:07 but the real world performance might be different in the beagle Jan 14 22:57:32 frazera@therecorder:/usr/local/src/ltcclock$ df -h Jan 14 22:57:32 Filesystem Size Used Avail Use% Mounted on Jan 14 22:57:32 /dev/mmcblk0p5 15G 1.3G 13G 10% / Jan 14 22:57:33 tmpfs 123M 0 123M 0% /lib/init/rw Jan 14 22:57:35 udev 121M 152K 121M 1% /dev Jan 14 22:57:38 tmpfs 123M 14M 110M 11% /dev/shm Jan 14 22:57:40 /dev/mmcblk0p1 64M 9.9M 54M 16% /boot/uboot Jan 14 22:57:41 frazera@therecorder:/usr/local/src/ltcclock$ Jan 14 22:57:43 sorry Jan 14 22:57:46 did'nt mean to do that Jan 14 22:57:58 frazera@therecorder:/dev$ sudo dd if=/dev/zero of=outfile count=4096 bs=512 Jan 14 22:57:59 4096+0 records in Jan 14 22:57:59 4096+0 records out Jan 14 22:58:00 2097152 bytes (2.1 MB) copied, 0.069397 s, 30.2 MB/s Jan 14 22:58:41 adnt he flip side, gave me 27.9 on read Jan 14 22:58:48 think its fast enough Jan 14 22:59:18 pastebin!!!!!! Jan 14 23:57:20 one day I will be an skb wizard Jan 14 23:57:24 that day is not today Jan 14 23:59:48 weird thing to shoot for Jan 15 00:00:21 I'm a weird guy Jan 15 00:00:43 I was hoping I'd get there as a side effect of other work. Jan 15 00:02:19 you are quite weird Jan 15 00:02:23 * mranostay ducks Jan 15 00:02:24 hehe Jan 15 00:02:34 par for the course in this channel :) Jan 15 00:03:12 i am completely normal Jan 15 00:03:26 Well there are exceptions to every rule I suppose Jan 15 00:04:09 in my own mind i'm completely normal and all that matters :) Jan 15 00:11:52 jsut rattled around in my shed and foudn the bits i need Jan 15 00:11:53 :-) Jan 15 00:12:22 i'm picking that i will have the first ever beagle controlled Copper Electroplating system Jan 15 00:12:49 it's always nice when you already have the bits you need Jan 15 00:13:04 was mroe a case of makign teh design fit what was there Jan 15 00:13:18 just needed some glue 74 logic Jan 15 00:13:59 we have 70 types of 74 logic in the stock inventory Jan 15 00:14:01 at work Jan 15 00:14:05 but today i'm at home Jan 15 00:14:40 * Russ wonders why people in prototyping care 70 types of 74 logic instead of cplds Jan 15 00:14:43 er, carry Jan 15 00:15:03 because 74 series still have a place Jan 15 00:15:33 not many 5V CPLDs around Jan 15 00:15:39 and those that there are, are expensive Jan 15 00:15:57 and when all i am doing requires jsut 2 IC's Jan 15 00:15:58 did not know about the lack of 5V cplds Jan 15 00:16:03 there is some Jan 15 00:16:08 but they are thin on teh ground Jan 15 00:16:15 i need to drive some FETS Jan 15 00:16:37 so called "logic level FETS" dont' work so well with 3.3V Jan 15 00:16:42 hard to turn them on. Jan 15 00:20:05 they make some 3.3v ones iirc Jan 15 00:21:08 there are some 3.3V Fets Jan 15 00:21:13 but everytings a compromise Jan 15 00:21:31 lower drive voltage typically means higher Rds(on) Jan 15 00:21:33 etc etc Jan 15 00:26:46 you can always do p channel driven by open drain Jan 15 00:34:09 im going to go see the Hobbit in 48fps tongith Jan 15 00:34:24 much better than the 24hz version Jan 15 00:36:15 Russ: twice as better? Jan 15 00:37:51 much more than twice Jan 15 00:38:01 damned jumpy pans Jan 15 00:38:28 it's like the director sat down, and said, what are the things I could do to make this film look the worst possible at 24fps Jan 15 00:40:29 Russ, the answer for the 74 question in this case, is Jan 15 00:40:52 (a) i can use a single AND and a three state buffer IC Jan 15 00:41:04 and it took me 4 minutes to deisng Jan 15 00:41:35 true enough Jan 15 00:41:36 parts cost about $0.40 Jan 15 00:42:13 i'm using the beagle to drive a FET H bridge Jan 15 00:43:05 i cant' really afford a programming accident to allow both sides of the bridge to be turned on. Jan 15 00:43:12 there is a lot of currnet! Jan 15 00:44:04 "From Power to Ground" a memoir by mrpackethead_ Jan 15 00:44:48 of what not to do Jan 15 00:45:25 there will be a far amoutn of experimenting to get thigns workign properly Jan 15 00:46:08 so, the possiblity for things to go wrong are high. Jan 15 00:46:21 planing for failure will result in sucess Jan 15 00:47:28 ^^^ story of my life. Whenever I'm the most prepared for failure, that's when it all works first try Jan 15 00:47:45 Those aren't so bad as when the opposite happens :) Jan 15 00:47:47 i just wing it usually :) Jan 15 00:48:27 yay - got me a dvi-d + audio board for my beaglebone. seems to work... Jan 15 00:48:51 I was at a place last week where they just wing everything. "What resistor value did you end up using?" "10k" "did you look at the datasheet?" "no" "just tried a 10k then?" "yeah" Jan 15 00:50:06 emeb.. i have some of those as well Jan 15 00:50:14 have not used the DVI-D but the audio goes just fine Jan 15 00:50:21 yep Jan 15 00:50:24 alan_o: ok that is bit much Jan 15 00:50:32 yeah, really annoying Jan 15 00:50:43 DVI-D has an X server on it, but for some reason it doesn't recognize my usb kbd/mouse Jan 15 00:50:44 im about to build a new Audio cape based on that design Jan 15 00:50:52 so I can't interact w/ the X. Jan 15 00:51:00 "this board gets a little warm, but it's been on for about 30 minutes or so...." It'll probably be ok..... Jan 15 00:51:11 i need blanaced inputs with XLR and a suitable pre-amp Jan 15 00:51:12 alan_o: so you were visiting my company and didn't say hi? :P Jan 15 00:51:20 hehe Jan 15 00:51:24 mrpackethead_: cool Jan 15 00:51:32 you using the same codec? Jan 15 00:51:43 will use the same chipset yes Jan 15 00:52:02 pretty much have to if you don't want to tweak the kernel I guess. Jan 15 00:52:24 wish those parts were available in something besides QFN. Jan 15 00:52:52 QFN's ok, its BGA thats a little bit tricky Jan 15 00:53:19 hilarious: these days we compromise on hardware designs to avoid software entanglements... Jan 15 00:54:03 I've never tried hand assembling a QFN. I suppose it's doable though. Jan 15 00:54:11 avsoutely Jan 15 00:58:09 mranostay: Yes, I am hoping to get to ELC this year. Jan 15 02:29:35 emeb : I don't know that compromise is the right recourse, but designing hardware to actually suit the software that needs to be developed is an absolute no-brainer Jan 15 02:29:43 emeb : it's unfortunately also extremely rare Jan 15 02:30:15 emeb : I guess everyone is still living in some bubble where hardware and software have nothing whatsoever to do with eachother Jan 15 02:39:00 CareBear\: Not quite what I was getting at. Jan 15 02:39:51 CareBear\: my point was that tweaking the software (in this case kernel drivers) has become so fraught that it's now easier just to throw hardware at the problem. Jan 15 02:44:11 hmmm no CFP emails sent out I see Jan 15 02:52:59 mranostay: I think they're only meeting tonight to do a final review Jan 15 02:54:03 you still have a shot Jan 15 02:58:46 emeb_mac: you in the know or something? :) Jan 15 02:59:14 mranostay: not me - totally out of the loop. **** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue Jan 15 02:59:58 2013