**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Feb 12 02:59:58 2013 Feb 12 03:08:53 anyone hardy with idvev rules? Feb 12 03:08:56 udev* Feb 12 03:11:27 I've got a pololu servo controller and I'd like to match on one of its endpoints, but I'm not having much luck due to the only one parent match part of udev Feb 12 03:11:30 http://pastebin.com/b4jQWc6c Feb 12 04:23:53 solution: use PROGRAM= and write a script to do analysis for you Feb 12 04:25:03 here ya go emeb_mac, http://imgur.com/gallery/ovx0sG3 Feb 12 04:25:46 Russ: you're the 2nd person on IRC to point that one out to me today. :) Feb 12 04:26:50 and it's 100% true too... Feb 12 04:28:16 in Arizona it rarely rains, so 1) oily gunk builds up on roads and 2) people have little skill driving in it. When it does rain the roads get more slippery than in places where it rains regularly and inexperienced drivers get in a lot of minor accidents. Feb 12 04:31:18 Russ: we have that same problem when it snows or has ice Feb 12 04:47:52 anyone try using the 3.8 pwm_test sysfs entries? Feb 12 05:41:10 prpplague: why is there 3 TI guys speaking on the same slot? :) Feb 12 05:41:31 curly, moe, larry Feb 12 05:41:41 never go anywhere alone. Feb 12 05:41:54 mdp is er moe Feb 12 05:43:24 someone should get the 3 stooges ring tone Feb 12 05:43:25 ;) Feb 12 05:43:46 woopwoopwoop? Feb 12 05:44:35 Nuk Nuk Nuk Feb 12 05:47:21 * mranostay facepalms Feb 12 05:48:43 delusions of being Picard Feb 12 06:27:04 JIHAD! Feb 12 06:27:53 * KotH counter pokes mranostay Feb 12 06:29:14 * dm8tbr involves the nuclear dawn option Feb 12 06:29:24 i can detect that! Feb 12 06:29:31 That's my doctors first name! Feb 12 06:31:33 mranostay: ah, so you built a rube goldberg alarm-clock? Feb 12 06:32:20 emeb_mac: to counter your claim: i find vhdl much easier to write and understand than verilog :-) Feb 12 06:32:49 KotH: was VHDL your first HDL? Feb 12 06:33:17 mranostay: but did it detect the NK nuke test? Feb 12 06:34:14 emeb_mac: nope Feb 12 06:34:31 emeb_mac: but i grew up with pascal... so i'm probably biased anyways :) Feb 12 06:34:45 KotH: Aha! Feb 12 06:35:17 KotH: I grew up with C and Verilog (actually been using Verilog and it's predecessor longer than C) Feb 12 06:36:00 hardware people :) Feb 12 06:36:16 sad to say. Feb 12 06:36:33 and my first computer language was... (wait for it) Feb 12 06:36:40 BASIC. Ahhhhhhh....... Feb 12 06:36:52 i can't say i never done basic Feb 12 06:36:58 followed quickly by 6502 assembly. Feb 12 06:37:24 wait - that was a double negative. So you admit you have! Feb 12 06:38:10 for a short while Feb 12 06:42:02 your brain is forever tainted. Feb 12 06:56:49 optocouplers are rather expensive Feb 12 06:57:09 for a IC Feb 12 06:57:48 well the chip is not the expensive part there, but the isolation between the two sides Feb 12 07:02:33 optocouplers aren't really ICs Feb 12 07:03:20 since the tx & rx functions have to be on separate semiconductor devices Feb 12 08:15:33 http://delkinoem.com/?gclid=CMiyhsinsLUCFYlb3godjmUABw Feb 12 08:16:26 finally! Feb 12 08:20:47 ? Feb 12 08:22:03 he has seen the light Feb 12 08:26:23 ? Feb 12 08:32:06 ! Feb 12 08:33:02 a paradigm shift in the flash storage industry? Feb 12 08:39:25 * av500 eats paradigm shifts for breakfast Feb 12 08:39:38 * KotH can believe that Feb 12 08:39:46 .... It’s also surrounded with controversy, mostly because a lot of people in the open-source community are afraid of change..... Feb 12 08:41:11 KotH: remember my rant the other day Feb 12 08:41:25 no idea Feb 12 08:41:39 KotH: RHEL6 from 2010 is now to old to run Chrome Feb 12 08:45:47 av500: complain to BBB Feb 12 08:52:10 Install Firefox? Feb 12 08:53:19 sad thing is, if you statically link your application with all libs, it is more likely to work for the next decade or two than if you link dynamically e.g. libc Feb 12 08:53:51 Shadyman: typical answer, yes Feb 12 08:54:07 av500: i've a binary of a napster client i compiled 2003 or so... linked statically against everything. still works like a charm Feb 12 08:54:15 yes Feb 12 08:54:42 that is why people are not proposing "GnomeApps" with bundled libs Feb 12 08:54:49 in the meantime, gtk1 has been deprecated... Feb 12 08:55:08 av500: not? Feb 12 08:55:08 yes, taking xmms with it Feb 12 08:55:17 * KotH still runs xmms at home Feb 12 08:55:40 still works like a charm... including the ocasional crashes Feb 12 09:03:19 0x85D Feb 12 09:10:49 av500: I have a better question. when I set that pin to mode 2(GPT9_PWMEVT). and I would like to set the timer by using this command http://pastebin.com/NDGU0ewq . however I get bus error for the line gptimer9[0x001C/4] = 0x00000007; why can't access to that register by mmap? Feb 12 09:11:51 av500: that's very deep Feb 12 09:12:51 what I want to do is to write 0x07 to 0x4904001C which is addr. of TIER register Feb 12 09:14:42 ufsu: i'm not sure whether you really want to go that way Feb 12 09:15:15 ufsu: accessing hardware registers from userspace directly is frowned upon... for very good reasons Feb 12 09:15:45 ufsu: why dont you use the standard interfaces the kernel provides? or write a small char driver if it doesnt Feb 12 09:17:43 KotH: what interface can I use? Feb 12 09:18:26 gpio and timer Feb 12 09:21:18 KotH: the TRM says I need to set some values TIER, TCLR, TLDR registers to get a PWM from expansion header. that's why I was suffering to set these registers. how can I get the PWM out from e.g. pin 4 by an easier method? Feb 12 09:21:44 isnt there already a pwm driver? Feb 12 09:21:44 isnt the PWM in sysfs? Feb 12 09:22:59 ufsu: are you working for some startup to create some device based on the beagle? Feb 12 09:28:25 KotH: I am just trying to do an experiment to see if I can control a device by a beagle. Feb 12 09:30:34 I set the uart2_cts on mode 2 from the /sys/kernel/debug/omap_mux, I don't get see any so pwm as output Feb 12 09:33:48 how can I set the pwm value on that pin? Feb 12 09:39:42 ufsu, how many possible ways can I tell you Feb 12 09:39:53 check that the clocks and power for that module are enabled Feb 12 09:48:14 ufsu: http://www.gigamegablog.com/2012/03/16/beaglebone-coding-101-buttons-and-pwm/ Feb 12 09:48:34 Oh, beagleboard. My bad. Feb 12 09:48:53 shadyman: I was happy for a while:) Feb 12 09:49:18 ufsu: http://processors.wiki.ti.com/index.php/AM335x_PWM_Driver%27s_Guide Does that help? Feb 12 09:49:35 a pwm driver for am37x would be a good beginner's kernel driver Feb 12 09:49:46 ShadowJK_, the pwm's on the am37x work different Feb 12 09:49:51 er, Shadyman Feb 12 09:49:53 Oh, again with the bone Feb 12 09:49:57 silly google :( Feb 12 09:50:15 http://elinux.org/BeagleBoardPWM Feb 12 09:50:16 Russ: I use devmem2, but it cannot access the memory, is it normal Feb 12 09:50:18 google seems to lump beaglebone and beagleboard together. Feb 12 09:50:37 That's what I get for trying to help ;( Feb 12 09:50:39 ufsu, did you do what I keep asking you? Feb 12 09:50:41 http://elinux.org/BeagleBoard/GSoC/2010_Projects/Pulse_Width_Modulation Feb 12 09:50:52 https://www.google.com/search?q=beagleboard+pwm Feb 12 09:51:11 Russ: do you mean I should read chapter 4 on the TRM ( power, reset and clock) management Feb 12 09:51:28 or just use google and follow the links like av500 indicated Feb 12 09:51:33 av500: Yeah, the one i linked is 6th on that page ;) Feb 12 09:51:41 silly google. G'nite. Feb 12 09:53:30 av500: I read http://elinux.org/BeagleBoardPWM it directs a kernel driver. I wonder what is the method to get a PWM from the pin4 without a kernel driver or see an example how to do it Feb 12 10:00:38 ufsu: scroll down? Feb 12 10:06:08 av500: I thought it was part of the kernel driver's usage. I read the source code. thank you Feb 12 10:06:58 the code uses /dev/mem Feb 12 10:07:02 that is one way Feb 12 10:07:17 the other is to use a kernel driver like in http://elinux.org/BeagleBoard/GSoC/2010_Projects/Pulse_Width_Modulation Feb 12 10:07:24 depends on how much you want to learn Feb 12 10:10:54 I want to learn /dev/mem usage. It is good to see https://github.com/MarkAYoder/BeagleBoard-exercises/blob/master/pwm/dm3730-pwm.c . thank you Feb 12 10:13:52 Hello everyone Feb 12 10:15:19 bah, seems 3.8-rc7 ethernet is borked again, even with disable-napi - damn you cpsw! Feb 12 10:17:14 I have doanloaded and installed the EZSDK 5.05 from TI.com witch has all the kernel source files. I have made menuconfig to add MT9p031 sensor suport as module. Everything compiles ok , Beagleboard-xm boots and I can insert the module mt9p031.ko Feb 12 10:17:42 but i still do not see /dev/video0 Feb 12 10:18:39 I buyilt kernel myselt because I whant to add DSP suport later to compile my own applications Feb 12 10:20:20 or is there an easier setup available (kernel source files + mt9p031 + DSP suport (DSPLINK or SYSlink) to build my own DSP applications) Feb 12 10:21:56 Akzzz: check dmesg Feb 12 10:23:20 Akzzz: this is thwe wrong place to discuss EZSDK 5.05 from TI.com Feb 12 10:23:23 the* Feb 12 10:23:39 we are not a TI support channel Feb 12 10:23:57 we are not? Feb 12 10:24:28 * av500 is not Feb 12 10:25:45 av500: but you could still lend a hand to your ebonia^Westonian friends Feb 12 10:26:07 I know this is not the right place to discuss the ezsdk. I have sucessfully make the MT9P031 driver and Leopard imagining camera work with Angstrom linux Also the DSPLink works Feb 12 10:26:09 but Feb 12 10:26:21 .o0(FRAM...boon and bane) Feb 12 10:26:49 I have no source files for Angsrom linux to compile DSPLINK and DSPLINK or SYSlink applications Feb 12 10:27:06 the OE setup seems confusing Feb 12 10:27:54 true Feb 12 10:28:04 tried and got some errors Feb 12 10:28:58 the dmesg has no indication od inicialicing the mt9p031 sensor Feb 12 10:32:28 actually I take that back it seems mmc driver related Feb 12 10:32:41 jackmitchell: granted Feb 12 10:32:46 proceed rant Feb 12 10:33:37 like, really knackered, time to try a new card just to be sure... Feb 12 10:37:08 So mayby some help from the Angstrom side then ? Or how to setup the Angstrom linux compilation system without OE Feb 12 10:38:20 zzzzz Feb 12 10:38:23 you cant Feb 12 10:38:29 angstrom uses OE Feb 12 10:38:38 but if you have ezsdk up and running, use that Feb 12 10:38:45 for your dsplink stuff Feb 12 10:39:09 that what I was thinking Feb 12 10:39:21 and if you google "angstrom kernel workflow" you might find how to recompile an angstrom kernel Feb 12 10:39:53 http://www.angstrom-distribution.org/some-usefull-workflow-blogs Feb 12 10:40:17 http://www.angstrom-distribution.org/building-angstrom Feb 12 10:40:32 tried with this Feb 12 10:40:33 http://www.angstrom-distribution.org/building-angstrom Feb 12 10:40:38 dis dot works Feb 12 10:40:45 did not worked Feb 12 10:41:10 did not work Feb 12 10:41:12 well Feb 12 10:41:21 it should Feb 12 10:42:42 if not, ask here Feb 12 10:42:44 or report a bug Feb 12 10:42:50 the usual procedure Feb 12 10:42:54 av500: i see, you are not a TI helpdesk, but an angstrom helpdesk? ;) Feb 12 10:43:01 no Feb 12 10:43:05 just a parrot Feb 12 10:43:13 a big parrot indeed Feb 12 10:43:18 Lora! Feb 12 10:43:28 OK will try with OE again Feb 12 10:43:41 as I said, it all depends on what you want Feb 12 10:43:54 if you are happy with ezsdk, use that Feb 12 10:44:18 btw, what do you want to do with dsplink? Feb 12 10:44:19 av500: can we teach you a few swear words which you will shout once in a while at random moments? Feb 12 10:44:25 I want a working setup MT9P031 + DSP aplication compiling Feb 12 10:44:30 KotH: fuck off! Feb 12 10:44:35 *g* Feb 12 10:44:48 but for DSP application compiling I need kernel soruce files Feb 12 10:44:49 av500: SCNR Feb 12 10:45:20 Akzzz: no, you dont Feb 12 10:45:47 you need the sources to compile dsplink Feb 12 10:45:55 but but ezsdk and angstrom should come with dsplink already Feb 12 10:46:01 DSPLInk or SYSLINK is to be used to send images for DSP processing Feb 12 10:46:01 but both* Feb 12 10:46:06 from camera Feb 12 10:46:09 Akzzz: sure Feb 12 10:46:16 no need to teach me about it Feb 12 10:46:51 yep to compile DSPLINK Feb 12 10:47:04 and sample applications Feb 12 10:47:15 what I can then modyfy Feb 12 10:47:15 [11:45:55] but both ezsdk and angstrom should come with dsplink already Feb 12 10:48:32 there is no need to compile dsplink Feb 12 10:48:58 its all already there Feb 12 10:49:09 thats the "EZ" in EZSDK Feb 12 10:49:16 pun intended Feb 12 10:50:09 in my ezsdk there is no indication od DSPBios or anythig Feb 12 10:50:17 or DSPLINK Feb 12 10:50:20 for that mater Feb 12 10:50:36 oh Feb 12 10:50:43 * av500 blames TI Feb 12 10:51:28 but I dont believe you Feb 12 10:51:33 http://processors.wiki.ti.com/index.php/EZSDK_Feature_List Feb 12 10:52:13 I think I can manage with building the DSPLINK myself, I have done that for L138 LCDK board Feb 12 10:52:24 as I said, there is no need for that Feb 12 10:52:33 see the EZSDK feature list Feb 12 10:52:44 maybe you are holding it wrong Feb 12 10:52:45 so then how do I compile DSPLINK application ? Feb 12 10:52:53 :) Feb 12 10:52:56 look at the examples Feb 12 10:53:05 like e.g. viddec_copy Feb 12 10:53:17 or the dsplink examples themselves Feb 12 10:53:29 viddec_copy uses CE aka codec engine Feb 12 10:53:36 but that is also in EZSDK Feb 12 10:54:39 hmm, EZSDK only mentions netra Feb 12 10:54:48 I hope it still works with omap3 Feb 12 10:54:57 if not use an older version Feb 12 10:55:01 got it from here Feb 12 10:55:02 http://software-dl.ti.com/dsps/dsps_public_sw/am_bu/sdk/BeagleBoardSDK/latest/index_FDS.html Feb 12 10:55:43 that is not EZSDK Feb 12 10:55:57 EZ != BB Feb 12 10:59:14 hmm Feb 12 11:00:03 and that SDK might not have DSP stufff Feb 12 11:00:08 indeed Feb 12 11:00:10 gm Feb 12 11:00:24 gm Feb 12 11:01:01 OK I thougt that this was the EZSDK version for Beagleboard Feb 12 11:01:07 nope Feb 12 11:02:17 and latest EZSDL only supports TI DM816x and DM814x. Feb 12 11:02:26 OK but then can I use this EZSDK with beagleboard at all ? Feb 12 11:03:07 or should I return to Angstroom insted Feb 12 11:03:52 ah Feb 12 11:04:03 it seems ti call the BBSDK also EZSDK Feb 12 11:04:10 http://www.ti.com/tool/linuxezsdk-sitara Feb 12 11:04:12 * av500 curses TI Feb 12 11:04:36 LINUXEZSDK-BBXM == BeagleBoardSDK 05_05_01_00 Feb 12 11:04:42 and that has not DSP support Feb 12 11:04:43 'cause the beagleboard is easy, right... ;) Feb 12 11:04:45 great Feb 12 11:04:55 koen: a new one 'Angstroom' Feb 12 11:04:58 looks like all the omap3 dsp sdks are gone Feb 12 11:05:03 :) Feb 12 11:05:16 in short, TI does not want you to use the DSP Feb 12 11:05:21 av500, give in to your anger Feb 12 11:05:27 the dark side beckons... Feb 12 11:05:30 panto: :) Feb 12 11:05:42 panto: I spent 4ys on TI DSP stuff and SDKs Feb 12 11:05:43 that i have beginning tu understand as well Feb 12 11:05:45 join the dark side! we have cookies! Feb 12 11:05:45 come to the dark side, we have cookies! Feb 12 11:05:50 I've done myshare Feb 12 11:05:51 * dm8tbr high-fives LetoThe2nd Feb 12 11:05:53 av500, dark cookies! Feb 12 11:05:55 hi5 Feb 12 11:06:13 av500, heh Feb 12 11:06:30 panto: in fact, we started the work before shiny SDKs Feb 12 11:06:38 LetoThe2nd: btw, ran into a identical death-ray today at a hotel. seems to be a 'bullet cam' type of thing. will make a picture today or tomorrow. Feb 12 11:06:41 av500, SDKs are pointless Feb 12 11:06:42 so in fact I never looked at one :) Feb 12 11:07:14 so then OE + Angstrom is the only option Feb 12 11:07:26 dm8tbr: ah... nearly guessed that. can you try to get a glace at the manufacturer/type plate? Feb 12 11:07:34 yes, will do Feb 12 11:07:49 (camera or mic was also my guess) Feb 12 11:07:55 av500, I want to do something like this for PRU & DSPs: http://homepages.uni-paderborn.de/plessl/publications/plessl12_caos.pdf Feb 12 11:08:06 ah Feb 12 11:08:15 I think you need DVSDK :) Feb 12 11:08:18 done something related a few years back Feb 12 11:09:10 there is no verison of DVSDK ofr beagle ai I recal Feb 12 11:09:28 I have used the DVSDK for OMAP L138 Feb 12 11:09:44 Linux DVSDK v3.01 (Supports OMAP3530 and OMAP3525; special support for OMAP35x EVM) Feb 12 11:09:45 and compiled the DSPLINK and applications Feb 12 11:09:49 dm8tbr: in case you can confirm, i will tell where i saw that ;) Feb 12 11:10:00 Linux DVSDK v4.01 RN/DL (Supports TMS320DM365, OMAP-L138, TMS320DM3730/25, OMAP3530/25), see also EZSDK for Sitara Feb 12 11:10:09 sure does Feb 12 11:10:32 so, since DSP in omap3 is not "easy", its not EZ :) Feb 12 11:10:48 its difficult and vague, hence "DV" Feb 12 11:10:58 :) Feb 12 11:10:58 ok, settled, next! Feb 12 11:12:02 av500: mmc is broken, when I write a file the beaglebone stops, is it because of my file or because I have my aircon on? Feb 12 11:12:14 54! Feb 12 11:12:39 av500: of course! how did I not see it, thank you kindly sir! Feb 12 11:16:49 next! Feb 12 11:19:12 I think that the DVSDK is intended to work with DM3730 EVM not with Beagleboard Feb 12 11:19:37 http://software-dl.ti.com/dsps/dsps_public_sw/sdo_sb/targetcontent/dvsdk/DVSDK_4_00/latest/index_FDS.html Feb 12 11:20:10 http://e2e.ti.com/support/dsp/omap_applications_processors/f/447/t/242512.aspx Feb 12 11:23:25 Akzzz: yes, maybe some tweaking might be needed Feb 12 11:23:45 but then, afaik Angstrom has all the dsp stuff as well Feb 12 11:25:40 seen that link aswell and tried llike a year ago. Also got some errors that I did not get passed so I gues I will try with Angstrom still ccaus I have seen the working MT)P031 and DSP on my board Feb 12 11:27:00 thanks av500 for the Angstrom links, will look in to those and report the errors if I got some :) Feb 12 12:45:31 awesome: http://www.h-online.com/security/news/item/Hacked-US-TV-Channels-report-zombie-apocalypse-has-begun-1802464.html Feb 12 12:46:38 haha, yeah Feb 12 12:50:57 the end is nigh! Feb 12 12:51:08 tell me something new Feb 12 12:52:12 * ogra_ just finished a sandwich Feb 12 12:52:18 ... new enough ? Feb 12 12:52:25 tell me something that matters Feb 12 12:52:35 that matters !!! Feb 12 12:52:35 ogra_: tuna? that matter to me Feb 12 12:52:36 to me at least Feb 12 12:52:51 mortadella and cheese Feb 12 12:53:07 tuna is for cats Feb 12 12:54:48 greetings, I have got a beaglebone, I tried out the normal start using cloud 9, so hardware wise it works Feb 12 12:55:30 then, I attempted to use the starterware, as per instructions, when I connected terminal, while running the default demo, all I got was CCCCCCCC Feb 12 12:55:40 instead of a URL Feb 12 12:56:11 at least you didn't get CCCP Feb 12 12:56:30 well thats a start Feb 12 12:57:56 My understanding is, you are meant to load a SD micro card, with a boot loader image "MLO" renamed from boot.bin, and an "app" renamed from demo.bin Feb 12 12:58:01 is that correct? Feb 12 12:58:08 mightbe Feb 12 12:58:57 am335x is saying halp, I can't find my bootloader on yer sd card Feb 12 12:58:57 I even tried a different SD micro card, Feb 12 12:59:22 okay, good, this is a start Feb 12 13:01:04 first things first, I used the TI_SDCard_boot_utility_v1_0 to format the card and set the files, is the SD card meant to be formatted with FAT or FAT32? Feb 12 13:05:25 * mdp remembers this is not a TI help channel Feb 12 13:05:57 hi Russ Feb 12 13:06:08 mdp: is it in fact _any_ kind of help channel? Feb 12 13:06:27 mru, it's a self help channel of the worst kind Feb 12 13:06:43 I thought it was purely for entertainment Feb 12 13:06:51 that's why I'm here Feb 12 13:06:53 hey mdp Feb 12 13:07:57 mru, if I didn't see it first hand every day, I'd never believe what goes on here Feb 12 13:08:29 Russ, you always keep me guessing on your "awake" hours ;) Feb 12 13:08:44 Russ: don't bother, he's just a bot Feb 12 13:09:01 erm, mdp Feb 12 13:09:38 HappyHippo: Did the format utility not set the format? Feb 12 13:09:45 mdp: if you think this channel is unbelievable, then you have not seen much of the internet yet ;) Feb 12 13:09:51 jkridner: huh? Feb 12 13:10:06 KotH: we just gots the internets here! Feb 12 13:10:18 KotH: he's in .us, remember Feb 12 13:10:19 jkridner : it did, I will try it again Feb 12 13:10:19 the amish outlawed them til a few months ago! Feb 12 13:10:24 mdp: backwater flyover states ? ;-> Feb 12 13:10:36 indeed..."flyover country" Feb 12 13:10:43 hehe Feb 12 13:10:46 he's asking if it should be FAT or FAT32. I haven't used this TI_SDCard_boot_utility, but I'd think it'd set the format itself. Feb 12 13:11:18 instructions at: http://processors.wiki.ti.com/index.php/AM335X_StarterWare_Booting_And_Flashing#Preparing_the_SD_card Feb 12 13:11:19 linkedin is sooooo annoying Feb 12 13:11:22 set the format? Feb 12 13:11:35 mdp: if you want to see something weird in the morning, have a look at some of the akb48 videos Feb 12 13:12:56 jkrinder : thats the document I followed, as well as the default document, and it formats as plain FAT Feb 12 13:13:14 KotH: akb48 is indeed a strange phenom Feb 12 13:13:48 clearly designed to appeal to creepers Feb 12 13:14:03 mdp: in japan, they are all creepers Feb 12 13:14:09 yes Feb 12 13:14:36 there's been jokes about that wrt the honda plant in ohio ;) Feb 12 13:14:41 FAT54? Feb 12 13:14:52 mdp: juup Feb 12 13:15:04 mdp: even stranger, i was in japan in 2006 and 2009... and missed it completely Feb 12 13:15:15 mdp: didnt even hear of it until 2010 or so Feb 12 13:15:55 it's ok, you can enjoy it on the intertubes Feb 12 13:16:01 yeah Feb 12 13:16:15 but you know, seeing the real thing is different Feb 12 13:16:40 like looking at pictures of a life size gundam statue and actually standing infront of it Feb 12 13:16:49 hehe Feb 12 13:17:12 japan is strange place Feb 12 13:17:32 I usually reserve that type of statement for explaining places like the grand canyon to people...you have me intrigued ;) Feb 12 13:17:54 japan is worth a visit Feb 12 13:18:19 mdp: as a japanophile trukish living in switzerland, i can only agree with mrus statement: japan is a very strange place Feb 12 13:18:20 .jp and .au are two places I was screwed out of free trips to in the past Feb 12 13:18:47 everybody I know that's been there insists it's a must have experience though Feb 12 13:18:52 flights to japan are not that expensive Feb 12 13:18:53 .jp, I mean Feb 12 13:19:12 mdp: reserve a couple of weeks for full experience Feb 12 13:19:36 mru, I've been instructed that our next pleasure trip overseas must be to your area Feb 12 13:19:50 europe? Feb 12 13:19:55 mdp: the weirdnes of the country doesnt sink in until you notice the borthels next to the bakeries Feb 12 13:19:58 mru: the UK? Feb 12 13:19:59 to .uk, in particular Feb 12 13:20:04 not europe! Feb 12 13:20:15 isolated island nation Feb 12 13:20:19 av500: the uk is in the europe area Feb 12 13:20:36 I was being sensitive to how "special" .uk is ;) Feb 12 13:20:47 mru: just like saudi arabia being in the african area Feb 12 13:21:00 the weirdnes of the country doesnt sink in until you notice the vinegar on the fries Feb 12 13:21:10 *g* Feb 12 13:21:19 av500, common .us thing too Feb 12 13:21:25 or the horse meat... Feb 12 13:21:26 av500: the chips, you mean Feb 12 13:21:59 I told the personal assistant, "why there? they don't even speak proper English!" Feb 12 13:22:21 obvious bait is obvious Feb 12 13:22:49 lunch... Feb 12 13:22:51 okay, so would anyone know what next step I should try in terms of my little saga with the beaglebone Feb 12 13:23:31 HappyHippo: pilgrimage to the holy lands in texas? Feb 12 13:23:41 en guete av500 Feb 12 13:23:47 write big data server in node.js? Feb 12 13:23:56 w/ texas-shaped amurucun style waffles Feb 12 13:24:14 av500, you had me at "big data" Feb 12 13:24:24 woot Feb 12 13:24:26 HappyHippo: got your starterware stuff running? Feb 12 13:25:39 HappyHippo: did you use the same uSD card as came with the board and worked for the Cloud9 (presumably the preloaded) image? Feb 12 13:26:56 KotH, slight problem, I am in Western Australia, and like 99% of Western Australians, we only get as far as Bali Feb 12 13:26:56 av500, nopes, Feb 12 13:26:58 mdp : I used a fresh SD card, infact I tried two Feb 12 13:26:58 I havent touched the default image cloud9 card yet Feb 12 13:27:00 the only time I used the clould9 card was to test that the system works Feb 12 13:27:15 HappyHippo: then start swimming! Feb 12 13:27:38 HappyHippo: then getting it working is your next step Feb 12 13:27:42 HappyHippo: as an experiment, try just replacing the MLO etc. on the cloud9 card...copy the good ones to MLO.org etc.... Feb 12 13:27:51 meh.. i hate it when i cannot find the one single bit of information about a toolchain that decides everything else! Feb 12 13:27:55 www.mlo.org? Feb 12 13:28:01 just in case you have card incompatibility problems or had some format issue along the way Feb 12 13:28:02 lol Feb 12 13:28:07 .org ? Feb 12 13:28:12 isnt that .com ? Feb 12 13:28:35 or wait, its arm ... .co.uk Feb 12 13:29:16 av500, ahhhhh...mlo.org is a premium domain :( 12088USD Feb 12 13:29:19 such a deal Feb 12 13:29:32 "premium" Feb 12 13:29:49 * mdp senses this is another TI revenue stream Feb 12 13:32:17 jkridner: you must be trolling in that g+ post ;) "deploying node.js with systemd" Feb 12 13:32:21 lol Feb 12 13:32:30 :-) Feb 12 13:32:41 badass rockstar tech, indeed Feb 12 13:33:23 mdp I will try that, could be a dodgy SD card Feb 12 13:36:18 * felipebalbi wonders what to do today. Choices are: quick-and-dirty (semi-)automated testing tool and excel sheet for broken planning Feb 12 13:37:21 HappyHippo: depending on the part, rom code can be "finicky" Feb 12 13:37:42 felipebalbi: the world needs another automated testing tool ;) Feb 12 13:38:09 write a new build system! Feb 12 13:38:14 we dont have enough Feb 12 13:38:19 come to think of it, the world needs more excel macros too Feb 12 13:38:25 +1 Feb 12 13:38:30 build system! I vote build system! Feb 12 13:38:38 agreed, next! Feb 12 13:38:54 felipebalbi: if you hadn't heard, LF is proclaiming 2013 "The Year of The Embedded Linux Build System" Feb 12 13:38:59 it's really guys! Feb 12 13:39:03 it's really here guys! Feb 12 13:39:06 * mdp bounces Feb 12 13:39:35 o_0 Feb 12 13:39:48 will we now have an abundance of build systems to choose from? Feb 12 13:39:48 mdp: tigger-fashion? Feb 12 13:39:54 indeed Feb 12 13:40:02 KotH: we'll just have to make one more that everyone can use Feb 12 13:40:21 mru: standard-fashion? Feb 12 13:40:25 if I were making one now it would definitely be a systemd module Feb 12 13:40:43 I think we should make a build system that can use all the existing ones as a back end? Feb 12 13:41:06 something cloud connected using node.js Feb 12 13:41:28 * mdp becomes misty-eyed. Feb 12 13:41:40 hmm.. my mp3 player is running out of diskspace Feb 12 13:41:56 KotH: use pkzip.exe Feb 12 13:42:05 and/or cloud Feb 12 13:42:09 * KotH blames av500 for not providing the world with usable upgrade device Feb 12 13:42:20 felipebalbi: I was doing "one last cleanup" on the 8148 clock codez before submitting and broke all the pll stuff...gave up for the night ;) Feb 12 13:42:29 KotH: get a A101G9 and put a 1TB drive Feb 12 13:43:04 av500: kinda big for an mp3 player Feb 12 13:43:15 KotH: kinda small for a human? Feb 12 13:43:42 av500: sorry, wrong genes... my parents couldnt aford more than 1.83 Feb 12 13:43:57 that's a full 6 feet Feb 12 13:44:09 mdp : it did not work, the ethernet connector LED lights dont even turn on Feb 12 13:44:13 mru: i have my feet firmly on the ground ;) Feb 12 13:44:43 all 6 of them? Feb 12 13:44:44 I am wondering, can the beaglebone be power from USB for using starterware, or does it have to be powered from the 5 volt DC jack? Feb 12 13:45:38 if in doubt, use the dc jack Feb 12 13:45:42 I don't trust USB Feb 12 13:45:49 what mru said Feb 12 13:47:33 yeah, the power management chip has a hard cut-off at 500mA where it will simply cut your power. Other than that, it should be reliable. :) Feb 12 13:47:48 *cough* Feb 12 13:47:51 :) Feb 12 13:49:56 okay I will give 5 volt DC a try tomorrow, Feb 12 13:51:09 For a bealgebone project, would there be any problems with the following concept, "bealgebone gets data from ADC, through SPI, buffers it, and sends the ADC data on ethernet as UDP packets" Feb 12 13:52:11 HappyHippo: beside being horrible overkill? ;) Feb 12 13:53:22 mdp: re autotest, I have specific and somewhat peculiar requirements Feb 12 13:53:29 I guess it'd be far better to just cook something quickly Feb 12 13:53:41 but if you know a good one, let me know ;-) Feb 12 13:53:43 "no relays" :) Feb 12 13:53:51 okay, I had a look at arduino due, but it looks like their API has been copied out from AMTEL, regurgitated, and not finished properly Feb 12 13:53:58 a good one? oh dear no ;) Feb 12 13:54:05 we have ktest.pl though Feb 12 13:54:22 HappyHippo: there is nothing wrong with overkill Feb 12 13:54:31 HappyHippo: as long as you know why you are using it Feb 12 13:54:41 HappyHippo: and yes, atmel code is horrible Feb 12 13:55:19 HappyHippo: it's only use is to fill the gaps in their documentation when implementing everything from scratch yourself Feb 12 13:55:29 mdp: will look into ktest, sure Feb 12 13:55:37 mdp: the relay thing... I hate that noise :-) Feb 12 13:55:41 felipebalbi: it works pretty well for me Feb 12 13:55:50 felipebalbi: get a solid state relay Feb 12 13:55:56 felipebalbi: and yes, I will probably bring up the relay thing forever ;) Feb 12 13:56:02 another problem I didnt like with arduino due, is that their ethernet is connect to their brand spanking new arm chip using SPI, Feb 12 13:56:03 mdp: but I will be testing USB so I need to be able to run commands on two possibly different systems Feb 12 13:56:12 av500: good point :-) Feb 12 13:56:40 mdp: I mean, for now I can just use my PCIe FPGA and have USB Host and peripheral on the same machine Feb 12 13:56:40 HappyHippo: why not use an stm32 or similar? Feb 12 13:56:52 felipebalbi: you can do any of that within ktest.pl, it originally started as rostedt's way to boot other x86 boxes, ssh in automagically and run tests Feb 12 13:56:54 but eventually I'd like to test with OMAP/sitara Feb 12 13:56:55 HappyHippo: there are enough cortex-m3 boards around that sport an ethernet interface Feb 12 13:57:01 besides automagically running bisect/builds Feb 12 13:57:11 mdp: sounds cool Feb 12 13:57:18 let me look into it Feb 12 13:57:30 HappyHippo: but as i said, if you think the beagle is a good solution for your problem, then you should stick with it Feb 12 13:58:05 felipe, I'm only using it semiautomatically atm, previously I had it firing off a jenkins server that was tied into autobuilds any time I pushed a branch into my github linux tree Feb 12 13:58:15 mdp: but do I need to have a separate machine or can I run ktest on local machine ? Feb 12 13:58:22 I need to hook things back up, it's useful to fire off regression tests like that Feb 12 13:58:46 mdp: if I need a separate machine then either I'm screwed, or I'll have use kvm and pci-passthrough Feb 12 13:58:48 felipebalbi: you could short-circuit all the reset stuff and use it to run local tests Feb 12 13:58:59 it's pretty flexible Feb 12 13:59:04 ok, cool Feb 12 13:59:22 I can try my hardest to ignore the fact that it's perl :-p Feb 12 13:59:38 Yeah, I have my peculiarities... so what? :-p Feb 12 13:59:38 at least you don't have to worry about reading the code ;) Feb 12 14:00:41 I'm becoming a little more pragmatic with these things...I learned enough Ruby to massage some jenkins/github triggering script I found..instead of rewriting it Feb 12 14:01:05 if I lose my job, I'll have Ruby on the CV to make myself marketable ;) Feb 12 14:01:49 the reason why I went with Texas Instruments, is because it looks like they have the better documentation set from what I have seen Feb 12 14:02:16 koen: you able to join the call today? Feb 12 14:02:20 mdp: yeah... ruby is cooler than most other scripting languages IMO Feb 12 14:02:29 mdp: but not cool enough to become my day job :-p Feb 12 14:02:35 Arduino has a documentation set for making the LED blink, but if you want to hardware trigger an ADC, arduino is not something I would rely on Feb 12 14:05:21 beaglebone documentation on making an LED blink: http://beagleboard.org/getting-started Feb 12 14:06:16 felipebalbi: I'm concerned about your love for Ruby...I will organize an intervention ;) Feb 12 14:06:52 mdp: :-) Feb 12 14:10:50 HappyHippo: i dont know the avr chips, but the arm chips from atmel are usually quite well documented Feb 12 14:10:51 mdp: btw, did you get your bone ? Feb 12 14:11:01 yes! Feb 12 14:11:03 thx Feb 12 14:11:12 HappyHippo: though i have never used arduino or anything.. i usually work on bare metal with my own toolchain Feb 12 14:11:13 mdp: cool, I just received mine, going to the office to pick it up Feb 12 14:11:15 one of my classic bones failed so that helps a lot Feb 12 14:11:20 KotH: don't you usually curse atmel? Feb 12 14:11:23 mdp: cool :-) Feb 12 14:11:29 mdp: is it the white version or the black version ? Feb 12 14:11:30 mru: of course i do Feb 12 14:11:42 it's white Feb 12 14:11:49 k, cool Feb 12 14:11:51 mru: their user suport sucks, their silicon is full of undocumented bugs, but that doesnt mean their documentation is shit Feb 12 14:11:52 I have two current version whites now, and a black Feb 12 14:12:02 plus a ton of old ones ;) Feb 12 14:12:07 KotH: the docs are good, too bad they're not accurate? Feb 12 14:12:27 KotH : that is true, but, the atmel developmemt kits, with ethernet cost alot more than a beaglebone Feb 12 14:12:36 mru: unlike freescale, which has shitty documentation, inexistent user support, ... Feb 12 14:13:22 mru: so far, i've found only two mistakes in their documentation... though quite important and really non-obvious ones unless you carefully read the docu and the underlying standard Feb 12 14:13:34 HappyHippo: then go bb!! Feb 12 14:13:37 Furthermore, an arduino due, with an ethernet shield, costs around the same as a beaglebone, but, it uses SPI, which is a bit of a waste of their ARM chip architecture Feb 12 14:13:55 mdp: hehe :-) Feb 12 14:14:03 mdp: are you going to seel them on ebay, or something ? Feb 12 14:14:12 HappyHippo: and with the bb you can run linux and program in user space which makes debugging a lot easier Feb 12 14:14:30 felipebalbi: I better or I'll drown in obsolete h/w Feb 12 14:14:43 mdp: send it to av500 Feb 12 14:14:50 are they even selling the black 'bones yet Feb 12 14:14:53 I'm thinking on my next visit to dallas I will just quietly drop them on somebody desk and walk off Feb 12 14:15:07 mru, that too Feb 12 14:15:14 mru: nice one about one mistake in the doc of atmel was "it's a silicon thing" :) Feb 12 14:15:29 nobody wants the really old bones Feb 12 14:15:32 trust me Feb 12 14:15:44 brb Feb 12 14:16:05 I don't even want a white one after seeing the specs on the black version Feb 12 14:16:56 mdp: a used bone a5 just went for 50eur on ebay last week Feb 12 14:17:10 mdp: so i guess you can still sell them and make some money Feb 12 14:17:21 I sense my employer would frown on that Feb 12 14:17:25 just sayin' Feb 12 14:17:29 mdp: and with that you can buy more 6502s :) Feb 12 14:17:40 but I mean much much much older than a5 ;) Feb 12 14:17:41 mdp: but 6502s! Feb 12 14:18:00 * mdp stops, entranced by mention of real processors Feb 12 14:18:33 once this ARM fad dies off, 6502 will rise again Feb 12 14:19:48 mdp: reminds me of the "bowling will rise again" joke in 20th century boys Feb 12 14:27:44 hehe Feb 12 14:27:51 afk Feb 12 14:36:56 argh. the i2c controller registers all got shuffled Feb 12 14:40:46 does anyone know why do_gettimeofday or current_kernel_time would crash the 3.8-rc7 (possibly previous kernel too, untested..) Feb 12 14:41:15 it could also possibly be a deadlock, I can't get any info out after the fucntion executes Feb 12 15:18:44 back, finally Feb 12 15:19:08 front, at last Feb 12 15:20:21 left, no more Feb 12 15:25:41 av500: lol Feb 12 15:32:54 anyone messed with the ADC on the 3.8 kernel? Feb 12 15:33:56 I stay away from analog Feb 12 15:35:48 jkridner: not that I know of... it's listed as (ugh) gap Feb 12 15:35:52 jkridner: any issues ? Feb 12 15:37:19 I'm trying to fix-up some driver usage examples and going through things and looking at the state. In this case, I don't know how to get the driver installed. Nothing shows in /sys/bus/platform/devices that looks like the ADC. Feb 12 15:37:57 jkridner: right... so you _do_ have a driver for it ? Feb 12 15:38:21 I have these patches applied: https://github.com/beagleboard/kernel/tree/3.8/patches/adc Feb 12 15:38:41 not sure if I have any driver loaded. Feb 12 15:39:28 jkridner: great, at least it's already using iio :-) Feb 12 15:39:35 jkridner: dmesg | grep -i adc ? Feb 12 15:39:39 dmesg | grep -i iio ? Feb 12 15:40:15 urgh. my dmsg buffer is overflowed with HDMI traffic. I'll reboot. Feb 12 15:42:21 jkridner: you should have a module called tiadc Feb 12 15:42:41 jkridner: something like "find /sys -name tiadc" should return something Feb 12 15:43:11 k, that is there. Feb 12 15:43:52 jkridner: did you get my email saying that kernel module is a stupid idea? Feb 12 15:44:02 but, it has no useful sysfs entries. :( Feb 12 15:44:25 jkridner: no sysfs support in adc driver Feb 12 15:44:35 no, you mean the hack pull request? Feb 12 15:45:02 that one Feb 12 15:45:59 k, came from notifications at github. I'll reply. Feb 12 15:46:46 and see the alpha list for adc hints Feb 12 15:47:11 panto explains there how broken the driver is Feb 12 15:48:12 the psp dude is playing dumb when being asked about it Feb 12 15:52:38 jkridner: you gotta check how iio works, I think it creates some chardevs under /dev Feb 12 15:52:41 jkridner: let me check Feb 12 15:54:08 a proper iio drivers creates a /dev node for high bw stuff Feb 12 15:54:20 and sysfs nodes for testing Feb 12 15:54:38 the ti driver does not do sysfs Feb 12 15:55:05 koen-: you still have /dev nodes, no ? Feb 12 15:55:10 yes Feb 12 15:55:16 and guess what Feb 12 15:55:22 shall I start writing some C code then to use the /dev nodes? Feb 12 15:55:29 using iio test utils makes it hang Feb 12 15:56:07 the drivers needs to support sysfs nodes *and* /dev nodes Feb 12 15:56:11 koen-: hurray :-) Feb 12 15:56:28 koen-: I have a feeling that will be the case will those pwm & adc drivers Feb 12 15:56:34 koen-: I don't think they were tested at all Feb 12 15:56:50 I know they weren't tested Feb 12 15:57:09 sure, but I'd like to start fixing bonescript to work with the 3.8 kernel and cannot keep waiting if I'm not blocked. Feb 12 15:57:13 first submission lacked DT bindings Feb 12 15:57:52 jkridner: coordinate with patil and panto Feb 12 15:58:06 we need adc working for the tester Feb 12 15:58:45 jkridner, what koen- Feb 12 15:58:48 said Feb 12 15:59:10 I use adc on the geiger cape, where one input is exported to sysfs Feb 12 15:59:30 the new iio hwmon interface might be better for auto-sysfs exporting Feb 12 15:59:45 I should have my laptop back in half an hour or so, on phone irc client now Feb 12 16:00:40 back from TSA? Feb 12 16:01:13 from the truck of clints car Feb 12 16:02:51 americans and their trucks in the back of their cars..... Feb 12 16:03:52 boot to the trunk, nah nah Feb 12 16:04:36 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z8VD4JXUozM Feb 12 16:05:40 koen-, I saw clint's car last time I was in dallas: http://img42.imageshack.us/img42/633/91397290.jpg Feb 12 16:12:18 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZljpTx_tJ78 Feb 12 16:17:19 ho ho hum Feb 12 16:18:10 Russ / mru / av500 - guess what? i found a one chip solution for my sd mux that solves all the issues... too bad i already ordered some pcbs Feb 12 16:18:26 Russ / mru / av500 - guess i'll dump those and do a new rev asap Feb 12 16:18:30 what is it? Feb 12 16:19:35 pray tell! Feb 12 16:19:45 http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/MAX14502AETL%2B/MAX14502AETL%2B-ND/2061945 Feb 12 16:19:57 it say MAXIM!!!!!!!!!!!!! Feb 12 16:19:58 run Feb 12 16:20:02 * av500 hides Feb 12 16:20:02 i prototyped it last night Feb 12 16:20:05 hehe, the king of one-chip solutions! Feb 12 16:20:06 av500: yes indeed Feb 12 16:20:10 for only $22.35 Feb 12 16:20:24 av500: however smsc and two other companies make similar products Feb 12 16:20:26 Russ: if you find another buyer to piggy back on Feb 12 16:20:35 Russ: thats for singles of course Feb 12 16:20:38 that will order 100k so they start the line Feb 12 16:20:56 av500, that is pretty much how maxim works Feb 12 16:21:25 Russ: I know Feb 12 16:21:32 hence my remarks :) Feb 12 16:21:33 yea, smsc has a part as well, but the datasheet isn't open Feb 12 16:21:42 same configuration Feb 12 16:22:21 apparently they are used in a bunch consumer electronics devices Feb 12 16:22:39 oh wow Feb 12 16:22:44 thats a beast Feb 12 16:22:46 i prototyped it last night and works like a champ Feb 12 16:23:04 no card detect issues or bandwidth issues Feb 12 16:24:18 Russ: at 250 pieces the cost drop down under $8.00 per unit Feb 12 16:24:36 thats 32$ on the retail price :) Feb 12 16:25:21 a really fast processor could bitbang this thing Feb 12 16:25:40 mdp: yea i am thinking about testing it with fpga as well Feb 12 16:25:56 but i'd like a solid off the shelf solution first Feb 12 16:26:09 this maxim chip was made for TI SocS there are always one USB generation late :) Feb 12 16:26:22 hehe Feb 12 16:26:44 but this thing is from 2009 Feb 12 16:26:56 at that time a lot of stuff has usb2.0 already Feb 12 16:26:59 i am not a fan of maxim either, but the chip is one of their better ones Feb 12 16:27:01 even TI Feb 12 16:27:10 av500, "we're better than Atmel!" Feb 12 16:27:22 mdp: maybe its a MUSB-workaround chip? Feb 12 16:27:40 drop musb, let the maxim' to the talkin' Feb 12 16:27:41 av500: yea, this is intended for devices like say a camera, where you plug it into your pc to access the sd card inside the camera Feb 12 16:27:50 av500: instead of using a gadget style driver Feb 12 16:27:56 yes Feb 12 16:27:59 right Feb 12 16:28:00 as I said Feb 12 16:28:00 av500: the secondary usb connection is just for controls Feb 12 16:28:06 musb killer Feb 12 16:28:12 indeed Feb 12 16:28:16 well, musb kills itseld Feb 12 16:28:17 itself Feb 12 16:28:20 hehe Feb 12 16:28:57 i am requesting info on the smsc part today Feb 12 16:29:05 yeah, 2nd source Feb 12 16:29:15 you'd think mentor would be dead from litigation over musb Feb 12 16:29:49 av500: looks llike the smsc part so far is identical footprint/function Feb 12 16:30:21 * prpplague grumbles Feb 12 16:30:28 left my sinus medicine in the car Feb 12 16:30:37 smsc = microchip now, right? Feb 12 16:32:01 emeb: yea pretty much, but it looks like the smsc "group" is still being branded separately Feb 12 16:32:47 prpplague: my "sources" inside mchp say that the company is blaming all their financial problems lately on the smsc acquisition. Feb 12 16:33:31 mdp / Russ / av500 feedback on using the max14502 for the sd mux is greatly appreciated(send to my personal email)! i'll post the schematic this week for review Feb 12 16:33:47 emeb: well based on my experience with smsc products, i can believe it Feb 12 16:33:48 prpplague: looks fine to me Feb 12 16:34:01 prpplague: only the usual maxim concerns apply Feb 12 16:34:06 but that is your worry :) Feb 12 16:34:07 av500: indeed Feb 12 16:34:20 If DK/Mouser have stock... Feb 12 16:34:21 prpplague: you can also make the beagle list order samples Feb 12 16:34:27 and send to you .) Feb 12 16:34:36 av500: indeed, well i check mouser, digikey, avenet and arrow, together they have about 30k pieces in stock Feb 12 16:34:58 trolls/snipers ready your mouse keys... Feb 12 16:36:17 * prpplague hopes to have a new set of TinCanTools products ready for launch for april fools day Feb 12 16:36:32 auspicious Feb 12 16:36:49 ah, a new SDK: http://www.mentor.com/embedded-software/downloads/linux-kits/ Feb 12 16:36:56 finally I can run linux on my bone Feb 12 16:37:02 or board Feb 12 16:37:04 looool Feb 12 16:37:19 its a prebuilt yocto Feb 12 16:37:24 what is yocto anyway? Feb 12 16:37:38 the new hotness Feb 12 16:38:35 hmm Feb 12 16:38:49 you can tell because all the hipsters have already tried it, gotten bored and moved on Feb 12 16:39:21 another faux Intel community project Feb 12 16:39:35 astroturf for everyone! Feb 12 16:40:06 argh, i am going to have to walk all the way back out to the parking lot for my sinus medicine Feb 12 16:40:56 first world problems. :) Feb 12 16:41:31 emeb: yea, really long walk Feb 12 16:42:00 hmm Feb 12 16:42:11 mentor partitioning instructions work by chance I think Feb 12 16:42:27 stochastic? Feb 12 16:43:07 its the omap3 rom code issue Feb 12 16:43:33 you need to have a FAT partition with an even number of sectors Feb 12 16:43:36 wow now this is new..... mdp did you know we had a "TI Company Heliport" ? Feb 12 16:43:39 https://maps.google.com/?ll=32.914356,-96.752153&spn=0.002898,0.004128&t=h&z=19 Feb 12 16:44:10 you just have to collect enough gold parking spaces Feb 12 16:44:13 move your car - the helicopter is coming Feb 12 16:44:49 hmmm "write a review" Feb 12 16:45:21 * prpplague goes to move his car Feb 12 16:45:46 better yet - take the helicopter out to the parking lot. Feb 12 16:53:42 we are engineers not banker Feb 12 16:53:44 *bankers Feb 12 16:54:50 but we wouldnt mind making as much money ;) Feb 12 16:55:07 what weird world are you in? ) Feb 12 16:55:09 :) Feb 12 16:55:32 a very swiss one :) Feb 12 16:58:41 i think most of have some morals left so banking isn't for us :) Feb 12 16:59:10 morals? Feb 12 17:03:46 prpplague: qfn cases are evil! Feb 12 17:04:02 KotH: hehe Feb 12 17:04:02 prpplague: qfn with ground pad are even worse! Feb 12 17:04:25 prpplague: happy hand soldering ;) Feb 12 17:04:54 * prpplague has no problems hand soldering qfn Feb 12 17:05:06 KotH: however i rarely hand solder these days Feb 12 17:05:17 KotH: we just get cco to do the assembly Feb 12 17:05:22 prpplague: btw: if you are learning vhdl, have a look at "the designers guide to vhdl" by ashenden. it's the best book on vhdl (actually on HDL design in general) i know of Feb 12 17:05:38 hot air guns are so cheap Feb 12 17:05:39 KotH: yea i have that one iirc Feb 12 17:05:42 prpplague: if you can get someone to put that stuff into an oven, then it's no prob Feb 12 17:05:56 hand soldering is a pain Feb 12 17:06:00 KotH: hehe, yea CCO has an "oven" Feb 12 17:06:07 cco? Feb 12 17:06:12 circuitco? Feb 12 17:07:03 ya, here's circuitco's oven http://i.imgur.com/T1ayPSU.jpg Feb 12 17:07:20 rotfl Feb 12 17:07:23 ka6sox-away: can't login to emerald, ssh keys changed :( Feb 12 17:07:58 Russ: why not buy an oven from elector? these are reasonably cheap and work well Feb 12 17:09:23 mdp: celebrate dude, vinod acked your series Feb 12 17:09:59 * mdp opens the scotch Feb 12 17:10:11 felipebalbi: awesome just sat back down after lunch..holy crap Feb 12 17:11:10 mdp: :-) Feb 12 17:11:31 I was worried he got hit by Linus' proverbial bus ;) Feb 12 17:13:08 hah! :-) Feb 12 17:13:44 hmm Feb 12 17:14:00 * prpplague tries to negotiate paid time off and travel to conferences.... Feb 12 17:15:24 any have experience doing that as part of salary negotiations? Feb 12 17:15:36 paid time off? Feb 12 17:15:40 as in vacations? Feb 12 17:15:43 I heard of them Feb 12 17:16:00 prpplague: you really don't want to ask me that :) Feb 12 17:16:18 prpplague: negotiating the PTO is critical IMHO Feb 12 17:16:39 I got 30 days without asking Feb 12 17:16:43 never argues for more Feb 12 17:16:43 just TO Feb 12 17:16:47 'P' is flexible Feb 12 17:16:54 argued* Feb 12 17:16:55 it's like salary, never admit to having what you really have Feb 12 17:17:03 you always have 3-4x reality Feb 12 17:17:08 then negotiate from there Feb 12 17:17:20 * mranostay takes notes from mdp Feb 12 17:17:41 let them think they have a real benchmark Feb 12 17:17:51 mdp: i'd be happy to get back to 5 weeks and conferences :) Feb 12 17:18:08 mdp: problem is they want to start from 1/4-1/3x reality :( Feb 12 17:18:33 yeah Feb 12 17:18:58 it helps usually when you have options are can just stay where you are Feb 12 17:19:36 boxes under the freeway aren't that uncomfortable! Feb 12 17:19:40 http://www.forbes.com/sites/susanadams/2012/08/06/negotiating-your-salary-in-a-bad-economy/ Feb 12 17:19:50 few tips which make some sense Feb 12 17:19:58 their job is to get you cheap Feb 12 17:20:01 it's not a bad economy for the people on this channel Feb 12 17:20:03 your job is to make them pay Feb 12 17:20:03 hehe Feb 12 17:20:12 mdp: doesn't matter, tips are still valid Feb 12 17:20:15 true Feb 12 17:20:27 just remember, they need you more than you need them Feb 12 17:20:49 ah my favorite question "what is your current pay?" on any job interview :) Feb 12 17:21:11 also, if you're at the point of receiving an offer, it's far better and cheaper to give you the higher salary you're asking than to go through all interview process again with another candidate Feb 12 17:21:12 mranostay, "more than you can imagine, my friend." Feb 12 17:21:21 mranostay: phase in terms of percentage of fort knox per fort night ;) Feb 12 17:21:23 mdp: right on :-) Feb 12 17:21:35 mdp: well this is specifically PTO for conferences Feb 12 17:21:36 ds2: probably my stake in options :) Feb 12 17:21:39 mdp: either that or "I have NDA which means I can't tell you" Feb 12 17:21:57 mranostay: of course, those are options in the fort, not in the company;) Feb 12 17:21:59 prpplague: how about negotiating for X days of paid conf travel in a calendar year? Feb 12 17:22:11 prpplague: it's like anything...*everything* is negotiable. Feb 12 17:22:35 :-) Feb 12 17:22:53 mdp: yea, just didn't know if i was unique in negotiating for that type of stuff Feb 12 17:23:10 uniqueless does not matter Feb 12 17:23:30 prpplague: you are not an unique snowflake :P Feb 12 17:23:37 hehe Feb 12 17:23:50 now if you start asking for number of pigs and chickens per year... Feb 12 17:24:52 prpplague: doesnt everyone do that? Feb 12 17:24:54 "my salary was pegged to the price of oil" Feb 12 17:24:58 "I'm heavily involved in conference organization and presentation for X,Y,Z. I consider this critical as my ongoing training commitment and require support for N days of paid conference travel and participation a year as part of my compensation package" Feb 12 17:25:24 If you are flexible somewhere else, don't tell them until they push back hard.. Feb 12 17:25:49 i.e. "I'm willing to give up .01 days of PTO for that conference stuff" Feb 12 17:25:57 s/i.e./e.g./ Feb 12 17:26:32 mdp: yea basically what i said Feb 12 17:26:39 mdp: PTO? Feb 12 17:26:47 there's zero doubt in my mind that the company benefits greatly from your participation in conferences Feb 12 17:27:01 since I know the company you contract for now benefits greatly Feb 12 17:27:18 KotH: popular modern .us time-off policy Feb 12 17:27:33 it's all the rage in HR circles for the last 15 years Feb 12 17:28:08 combines your vacation time and your sick time together...allowing them predictability over absences versus the more traditional sick days + vacation days Feb 12 17:28:30 so if you are out sick for all your PTO days you no longer have any vacation time ;) Feb 12 17:28:39 eh.. Feb 12 17:29:27 mdp: i can be sick for half a year and still get my 5 weeks of vacation Feb 12 17:29:33 I understand Feb 12 17:29:39 KotH: different world Feb 12 17:29:49 mdp: which leaves me working while sick :) Feb 12 17:29:53 iirc after a year, the company is officially allowed to lay you off Feb 12 17:29:54 * prpplague hasn't had a holiday in 15 years Feb 12 17:30:02 I carry short and long-term disability insurance to make up for the change in our industry employment practices Feb 12 17:30:10 prpplague: really now? :) Feb 12 17:30:20 ok bbl Feb 12 17:30:25 mranostay: no work no pay Feb 12 17:30:27 our lack of traditional pension plans is also a major change from employment 20 years ago Feb 12 17:30:29 mranostay: life of a contractor Feb 12 17:30:54 mdp: yeah.. we have a lot more job security overhere.. but it also costs a lot of money Feb 12 17:31:12 yep, in some ways, it's all a wash Feb 12 17:31:17 different systems Feb 12 17:31:18 mdp: 5% of my salary goes for health care, approx 15% for pension plans Feb 12 17:31:57 impossible to directly compare too given the difference in tax structures across the board Feb 12 17:32:14 "free beer tomorrow" Feb 12 17:32:31 mdp: we have very little social stuff paid by taxes. thus our taxes are rather low (10-15%) Feb 12 17:32:47 KotH: one thing our new system has created is a lack of loyalty. Feb 12 17:32:50 mdp: but health care, insurances etc come extra, and some are mandatory Feb 12 17:33:01 mdp: hmm? how come? Feb 12 17:33:09 without a corporate pension, what's the benefit of being a lifer? Feb 12 17:33:20 lol Feb 12 17:33:55 well, in a society, where hire and fire is normal.... Feb 12 17:33:57 unintended consequences Feb 12 17:34:15 yeah, that's a relatively modern phenomenon, of course Feb 12 17:34:16 switching jobs in .ch takes a bit more time Feb 12 17:34:46 quitting a job takes three months here... unless both sides agree that a shorter term is ok (but they seldom do) Feb 12 17:34:57 my first job out of uni had a traditional pension...which I still hold..it's just not worth much for 5 years of it ;) Feb 12 17:35:13 but at the same time, if i get fired, i have to get paid for the next 3 months Feb 12 17:35:19 but it was probably by 2000 that all major corps were rid of or getting rid of pensions for new hires Feb 12 17:35:46 what is "traditional pension" for you? Feb 12 17:35:48 this stuff is all driven by industry HR/accounting best practices to save $$$ Feb 12 17:37:27 KotH: it's the same thing our government workers still have...reach a certain age after hitting the vest/retirement gates at your corporation, and you get your preprogrammed pay-out for life...based on various salary gates or levels of later years. Feb 12 17:37:40 often a percentage of max salary at the end, etc. Feb 12 17:38:08 ah.. ok Feb 12 17:38:14 the stuff we call here pension :) Feb 12 17:38:17 these are also tied intimately to .us social security payouts at the retirement age so you knew exactly what you would get from both Feb 12 17:38:22 yes, exactly, I realize that Feb 12 17:39:02 but i have to admit, that it isn't all shiny overhere Feb 12 17:39:12 it's never been all shiny here either ;) Feb 12 17:39:19 especially when the funds are mismanaged ;) Feb 12 17:39:19 if i would depend on gov pension only, i would be quite poor when i retire Feb 12 17:39:37 that's the case with SS here as well Feb 12 17:39:39 i have to invest in private pension plans to get something substantial out Feb 12 17:40:00 just like I understand most .euisians have augmented healthcare plans as well Feb 12 17:40:19 augmented? what do you mean? Feb 12 17:40:31 additional coverage over the base Feb 12 17:40:41 ah.. Feb 12 17:40:45 yes Feb 12 17:41:00 i dont know other countries (did never care much), but in .ch it depends on how much you pay Feb 12 17:41:19 base coverage is mandatory and has a fixed (ie goverment decided) rate Feb 12 17:41:28 everything above that costs more Feb 12 17:41:34 though it's not too expensive Feb 12 17:41:47 especially if you are young or have an university degree Feb 12 17:41:56 unfortunately, in our culture, I suspect a lot of people don't have the discipline to self-manage their own retirement Feb 12 17:42:18 most overhere dont have the money to invest in private plans :) Feb 12 17:42:19 we may need to put them on a cosco ship and send them to you all Feb 12 17:42:28 :) Feb 12 17:42:30 but then, the gov plan is usually good enough for them Feb 12 17:42:44 yeah, enough for cable tv and cases of PBR Feb 12 17:42:48 it's the high salary guys who don't get enough out of the gov plans (there is a cap on the payout) Feb 12 17:43:17 your 1% ;) Feb 12 17:43:37 actually more like 10-20% Feb 12 17:43:48 anyone with an university degree is in that group Feb 12 17:43:54 right, I joke Feb 12 17:44:46 my son is reading the "top ten college majors" article..or was last night Feb 12 17:45:20 as a 14 year old, he's freaking out at the median pay for those top ten college majors Feb 12 17:45:26 http://www.princetonreview.com/college/top-ten-majors.aspx <- this one? Feb 12 17:45:27 "wow, that's amazing!" Feb 12 17:45:37 8 out of 10 are engineering or CS Feb 12 17:45:58 this was a different one Feb 12 17:46:10 it's statistics so they are using different criteria in the princeton one Feb 12 17:46:12 sec Feb 12 17:46:26 CS is highly overpaid compared to other engineering groups :) Feb 12 17:46:29 I think the one we had is skewed cause it doesn't properly reflect all the healthcare majors Feb 12 17:46:43 depends what you define as CS Feb 12 17:46:53 it was much lower than chemical and computer engineering Feb 12 17:47:02 well, not much lower..just slightly below Feb 12 17:47:09 it's all noise imho Feb 12 17:47:16 anyone doing programming or software as a full time job ;) Feb 12 17:47:28 it's been this way since I was out of uni though..nothing's changed at all Feb 12 17:47:31 exacty Feb 12 17:47:33 here they earn 10-20% more than EEs Feb 12 17:47:36 if you look at the "top jobs" Feb 12 17:47:49 they don't go by major...the top paid is "software developer" Feb 12 17:47:56 in the .us news and world report study for 2013 Feb 12 17:48:18 right, I'm an EE myself..but fall into the s/w job bucket Feb 12 17:48:25 if you want to earn lots of money here, you either go for economics, law or dentist Feb 12 17:48:39 yeah, they have finance as one of the top ten majors Feb 12 17:48:52 law is ok, but there's a lot more school there Feb 12 17:49:05 * KotH knows Feb 12 17:49:07 and in any case, you can just follow up your engr undergrad with law school Feb 12 17:49:12 my friend did that Feb 12 17:49:29 here you usually cannot Feb 12 17:49:31 has an awesome office with a secretary..the work seems painfully boring Feb 12 17:49:38 he's an IP lawyer Feb 12 17:49:48 everybody in his firm is undergrad engr Feb 12 17:49:58 except for the paralegals and janitors ;) Feb 12 17:50:02 if you have an undergrad in something, it's not that easy to switch to a different major.. unless you had that as minor and did nearly as much as the majors have done Feb 12 17:50:22 mdp: hehe some trolling is needed, hehe - https://plus.google.com/109993695638569781190/posts/PbFxoc9yaUU Feb 12 17:50:23 in our system, it's not a switch Feb 12 17:50:31 mdp: read the comments from this guy Feb 12 17:50:49 it's recommended to have a base undergrad in something relevant to your legal area of interest before law school Feb 12 17:50:52 or if you become an engineer, which dont have minors, you have a hard time switching unless the degrees are quite near each other Feb 12 17:51:04 I see Feb 12 17:51:05 mdp: interesting Feb 12 17:51:34 if i wanted to take up law, i would have to start from scratch Feb 12 17:51:36 prpplague: "Hardkernel" alone makes me laugh whenever I see it Feb 12 17:53:09 whats hardkernel? Feb 12 17:54:05 mdp: http://www.businessinsider.com/best-college-majors-for-high-salaries-2012-11?op=1 this one? Feb 12 17:54:55 that's different one yet Feb 12 17:55:09 oooh, those actuarial math peoples! I hatses them! Feb 12 17:55:21 * mdp had a bad experience with them blowing the curve in Probability Feb 12 17:56:07 please tell :) Feb 12 17:56:10 http://jobs.aol.com/articles/2013/01/29/best-paying-college-majors/ Feb 12 17:56:24 KotH: that is their bread-and-butter...probability you know Feb 12 17:56:30 juup Feb 12 17:56:36 and the prof told us on day one that he "hated engineers" Feb 12 17:56:45 that way a lovely prison sentence Feb 12 17:56:50 s/way/was/ Feb 12 17:57:18 note: they typoed #1..it's computer engineering Feb 12 17:57:40 this list uses average starting salary + that forecase job growth for rankings Feb 12 17:58:11 * KotH hat a similar experience with a physics prof Feb 12 17:58:40 this is why I couldn't see paying for more abuse in grad work..."I pay for this treatment?!?" Feb 12 17:58:41 ;) Feb 12 17:58:43 <_av500_> the prof is in the pudding Feb 12 17:59:09 our regular prof was sick or something and another prof had to give the lecture. his first sentence was "you have to excuse me, it's the first time i teach mathematically deficient students" Feb 12 17:59:18 nice Feb 12 17:59:21 they are like that Feb 12 18:00:02 mdp: especially considering that this was at the one university in .ch know for dropping students trough tough math classes Feb 12 18:00:17 thank goodness they are just the few bad apples...I had a lot of outstanding folks otherwise Feb 12 18:00:58 you only go there if you are crazy, arogant enough to think you are good enough or just naive enough not to look up what kind of uni you applied to Feb 12 18:01:17 * KotH nods Feb 12 18:01:23 our regular physics prof was great Feb 12 18:01:37 KotH: we had a popular english course "Introduction to Science Fiction"...the prof was outstanding...first day, "welcome to intro to sci-fi....aka English for Engineers!" Feb 12 18:01:39 hahaha Feb 12 18:01:50 lol Feb 12 18:01:58 <_av500_> :) Feb 12 18:01:58 best "humanities" filler credit ever Feb 12 18:02:17 prof was superb...went to all the sci-fi cons etc. very passionate about the literature Feb 12 18:02:28 and it helps when you already read half the required reading list Feb 12 18:02:28 cool Feb 12 18:02:34 * KotH wished he had something like that Feb 12 18:03:10 if only we had that reading list instead of "Wuthering Heights" etc. in high school ;) Feb 12 18:03:29 the only fun stuff we had was "phylosophy of artificial intelligence".. had to do accounting and japanese language to get the rest of the points :) Feb 12 18:03:37 hehe Feb 12 18:03:38 fun Feb 12 18:04:52 interestingly, from all these, the only thing i got from the ai class is a book i have not read, from accounting that people who do economics are very slow in calculating stuff (and multiplication is max the can do), and an internship in japan :) Feb 12 18:05:39 * KotH should have done more fun stuff at the uni Feb 12 18:05:58 we drank a lot Feb 12 18:06:13 probably unusual I guess ;) Feb 12 18:06:18 hehe Feb 12 18:06:23 we did that in the first semester Feb 12 18:06:33 <_av500_> mandatory course Feb 12 18:06:33 after that, the exams hit us hard Feb 12 18:06:38 <_av500_> fail that and you are out Feb 12 18:08:25 * prpplague grumbles Feb 12 18:08:32 that nokia guy really pissed me off Feb 12 18:08:34 * KotH hands prpplague some chocolate Feb 12 18:08:34 <_av500_> why? Feb 12 18:08:40 <_av500_> prpplague: what guy? Feb 12 18:08:50 av500: https://plus.google.com/109993695638569781190/posts/PbFxoc9yaUU Feb 12 18:09:06 <_av500_> ah, ssvb :) Feb 12 18:09:52 ahh didn't put it together Feb 12 18:10:05 <_av500_> he's a nice guy :) Feb 12 18:11:54 i am sure , but he still pissed me off, i am so fsckn sick of people defending crappy ass companies like hardkernel and the RPi foundation Feb 12 18:11:57 prpplague: btw, I'm not a Nokia guy anymore :) Feb 12 18:12:44 prpplague: I just pointed out that you are not a knight in the shining armour either Feb 12 18:13:54 prpplague: every bit of hardware sucks in its own way Feb 12 18:16:14 ssvb: i didn't imply that i was, my point was that at least we were (past tense) making a significant contribution back to oss community and supporting our product Feb 12 18:16:45 the whole fact that you defending companies like hardkernel makes me sick Feb 12 18:18:21 <_av500_> BB and panda started a whole range of me-too Feb 12 18:18:22 prpplague: they do deliver cheap quad-core cortex-a9 hardware, I can't help but appreciate this Feb 12 18:19:49 prpplague: relax... breath deeply and have some swiss chocolate Feb 12 18:20:03 ssvb: i suppose you like to purchase cheap clothing made by child slave labor too? Feb 12 18:21:06 <_av500_> these days, anybody can make a "cheap" board Feb 12 18:21:12 <_av500_> by slapping hw together Feb 12 18:21:30 <_av500_> that why we have $29 chinese rpi killers Feb 12 18:22:36 _av500_: 6 whole dollars less.. Feb 12 18:22:50 <_av500_> mranostay: yes, but 2x the CPU and the memory Feb 12 18:22:54 how many google summer of code has hardkernel sponsored? how many boards have they given away to educational groups? how many travel expenses have they paid for developers to attend conferences? Feb 12 18:23:02 <_av500_> 0 Feb 12 18:23:09 <_av500_> but nobody disputes that Feb 12 18:23:20 <_av500_> they sell cheap HW, thats all Feb 12 18:23:35 which is my point exactly Feb 12 18:23:56 <_av500_> whoever buys it knows what he is in for Feb 12 18:23:56 <_av500_> or should know Feb 12 18:24:19 <_av500_> and as usual, there is a working android for these things Feb 12 18:24:20 prpplague: you are implying that pandaboard buyers are supposed to sponsor all of this activity with their money? Feb 12 18:24:30 prpplague: cheap is what matters Feb 12 18:24:43 <_av500_> ssvb: no, panda itself is subsidised :) Feb 12 18:25:03 ssvb: no, i am saying that pandaboard and beagleboard are MEMBERS of the community and give back Feb 12 18:25:21 ssvb: you can't compare someone like hardkernel with beagle or panda Feb 12 18:25:28 even pandaborad.org gives back Feb 12 18:25:32 ...in smiles. Feb 12 18:25:38 indeed Feb 12 18:25:43 <_av500_> no to mention eagleboard.org Feb 12 18:26:34 <_av500_> meh, another mention of mesh network in emergencies Feb 12 18:26:39 <_av500_> who will they mesh too? Feb 12 18:26:45 <_av500_> to* Feb 12 18:27:29 _av500_, other nearby mesh radios buried in the rubble and flood waters Feb 12 18:27:33 er, nm Feb 12 18:27:41 not to mention that all mesh netowrks fail horribly at routing more than the occasional message Feb 12 18:27:52 <_av500_> ...Each smartphone in the network can operate up to about 100 feet away from its nearest neighbor. VoIP works over up to 5 hops... Feb 12 18:27:56 ssvb: yet another example of a disgusting company http://www.chalk-elec.com/ Feb 12 18:27:57 yay 10-80 meter radio! Feb 12 18:28:01 <_av500_> 5x 100 feet = Feb 12 18:28:36 ssvb: copy others peoples design, sell it with no support, and what do people do? they call TinCanTools for support Feb 12 18:28:44 <_av500_> really? Feb 12 18:28:54 <_av500_> sell them support :) Feb 12 18:29:17 a subscription! Feb 12 18:29:34 TCT Linenucks Subscription 2013 Feb 12 18:29:39 hehe Feb 12 18:29:52 * prpplague goes to get a tea to calm down Feb 12 18:29:58 " USD" Feb 12 18:30:05 prpplague: dont forget the chocolate! :) Feb 12 18:30:14 tea and chocolate? Feb 12 18:30:18 ofc Feb 12 18:30:33 prpplague: send them out here to flyover country, I can have Bubba and Homer "take care of them" Feb 12 18:32:17 that's sad, unfortunately I hear of that happening everything with this stuff Feb 12 18:32:30 like salae clones to run their s/w ;) Feb 12 18:32:44 or more appropriately :( Feb 12 18:33:35 saleae got screwed with the clones, but then they had it coming -- that hardware was trivial at best Feb 12 18:33:54 yes, it's just unethical Feb 12 18:34:17 <_av500_> i/wass the hw "open"? Feb 12 18:34:22 no Feb 12 18:34:24 <_av500_> is/was Feb 12 18:34:27 <_av500_> ic Feb 12 18:34:43 no, but it's more or less an FX2 with supporting crap around it Feb 12 18:35:04 <_av500_> right Feb 12 18:35:05 so people sell an FX2 breakout board with a note that says "download software from saleae.com" Feb 12 18:35:10 whereas, there's no issue making a better logic analyzer platform than the openbench unit...something I believe Bert is working toward in line with his sigrok goals Feb 12 18:35:22 too bad people don't put their efforts there Feb 12 18:35:41 <_av500_> in a way, if all that is needed is an FX2 breakout, then there is no value in the HW Feb 12 18:35:53 nod, that's all we want -- develop better hardware, we'll take care of the software side for free Feb 12 18:35:56 <_av500_> meaning, HW cannot be sold to cover SW costs Feb 12 18:36:04 ssvb: nothing personal, and if we ever meet at a conference, i'll be happy to buy you a beer, but i just spent the last 3 years of my life working on a design, development, and community for a product a damm proud of, to compare my work to Johnny-come-lately carpet baggers, is an affront to my professional character Feb 12 18:36:11 it's purpose built to be ID compatible with their s/w so that's why I find it unethical Feb 12 18:36:34 nod Feb 12 18:36:34 <_av500_> mdp: sure Feb 12 18:36:48 I *believe* in ethics Feb 12 18:36:51 * mranostay thinks prpplague needs another hug Feb 12 18:36:51 <_av500_> mdp: but the value is in the SW Feb 12 18:36:57 nothing wrong with an FX2 board, but the screenshots of the saleae software on the ebay page make my skin crawl, too Feb 12 18:37:02 * _av500_ could hug prpplague all day long Feb 12 18:37:12 yes, they should lock their s/w..but the .cn companies doing that are complete scum Feb 12 18:37:16 * mranostay hands _av500_ a card Feb 12 18:37:32 _av500_: now there would be a picture that would turn into a million meme's quickly Feb 12 18:37:52 <_av500_> pah Feb 12 18:38:03 prpplague: only in this channel too Feb 12 18:38:26 * _av500_ mumbles about amricuns and their personal space Feb 12 18:38:55 * mdp holds _av500_ at double arm length Feb 12 18:39:08 mranostay, no close-talkers ;) Feb 12 18:39:22 mdp: by the way, there are clones from russia, malaysia, UK Feb 12 18:39:28 that is one thing that took me awhile to get used with you weird europeans :) Feb 12 18:39:50 biot, I realize that, I should not blame just .cn ;) scumminess is universal Feb 12 18:40:16 it's the same scum that call senior citizens to scam them out of cash Feb 12 18:41:03 <_av500_> mdp: I stopped doind that long ago Feb 12 18:41:10 emeb: btw, do you have a vhdl module you recommend for implementing a uart? Feb 12 18:41:21 _av500_: you are yourself a senior citizen ;) Feb 12 18:41:38 _av500_, we coached my mother-in-law to try to get one of those guys to come by her house to "pick up a check" ;) we were hoping he'd be that stupid Feb 12 18:41:43 prpplague: opencores? there should be a dozen there Feb 12 18:41:48 <_av500_> KotH: now that you remind me, there wasthat young man on the phone recently Feb 12 18:41:51 <_av500_> in dire trouble Feb 12 18:42:07 <_av500_> didnt even knew I had a nephew Feb 12 18:42:08 KotH: yea i looked at a few of them, i just wanted emeb feedback Feb 12 18:42:28 _av500_: lol Feb 12 18:42:43 _av500_: hey gramps Feb 12 18:42:50 <_av500_> hey ..... kid Feb 12 18:43:03 _av500_: kids start early these days ;) Feb 12 18:43:55 prpplague: sorry, not VHDL UART. Did you check Opencores? Feb 12 18:44:02 lol Feb 12 18:44:04 <_av500_> yeah, each time I see mranostay I wanna say "sit straight" Feb 12 18:44:04 emeb: yea found a few Feb 12 18:44:08 heh - KoTH already said that Feb 12 18:44:10 prpplague: so much for feeback :) Feb 12 18:44:12 hehe Feb 12 18:44:54 just trying to decide if i want to just report the values via uart, or maybe implement the api for sigrok to use Feb 12 18:45:15 <_av500_> what are we talking about? Feb 12 18:45:21 prpplague: http://26-26-54.hardwarebug.org/144 Feb 12 18:45:24 prpplague: doing a logic analyzer? Feb 12 18:46:03 mranostay: hehe Feb 12 18:46:08 _av500_: hardware... nothing for you softies Feb 12 18:46:14 ;) Feb 12 18:46:15 KotH: a special one Feb 12 18:46:25 _av500_: hdmi/dvi/edp debug tool Feb 12 18:46:26 prpplague: what is special about i? Feb 12 18:46:30 oh... Feb 12 18:46:40 i mean... OH!... Feb 12 18:46:50 <_av500_> prpplague: that 410 on a stick? Feb 12 18:47:14 _av500_: tfp401 for hdmi/dvi on a stick Feb 12 18:47:25 _av500_: got a nxp part for the displayport Feb 12 18:47:34 <_av500_> and how will sigrock use that? Feb 12 18:48:10 sigrok! Feb 12 18:48:15 <_av500_> kid rock! Feb 12 18:48:20 _av500_: sigrok has some protocol decoder tools that could easily be adapted to report the values Feb 12 18:48:38 mranostay: hehe how did that end up there? Feb 12 18:48:40 <_av500_> ah Feb 12 18:49:15 <_av500_> prpplague: the usual way Feb 12 18:49:17 w00t - built up another BCC yesterday. debugged & working today. Feb 12 18:49:48 * mranostay points to _av500_ Feb 12 18:49:59 * _av500_ does not control that domain Feb 12 18:50:01 gm Feb 12 18:50:21 ah mru's does Feb 12 18:50:32 <_av500_> indeed Feb 12 18:50:44 wo ist glinde? Feb 12 18:51:23 <_av500_> da Feb 12 18:51:27 _av500_: my first thought is to just report the values even 10 seconds via a usb->uart interface Feb 12 18:51:42 _av500_: so you could just open up a terminal and view the values Feb 12 18:51:53 _av500_: or write a small app to do something with the values Feb 12 18:51:54 <_av500_> why not add a smal LCD :) Feb 12 18:52:02 _av500_: rusty suggested that too Feb 12 18:52:09 <_av500_> or wait, read them back and show them on the HDMI output Feb 12 18:52:24 <_av500_> does that meake it self aware? Feb 12 18:52:27 <_av500_> make* Feb 12 18:52:30 * emeb knows german like a (challenged) 4-yr old. lots of 2-letter words... Feb 12 18:52:33 _av500_: hehe, no hdmi out Feb 12 18:52:45 _av500_: it pretends to be the display Feb 12 18:52:54 <_av500_> prpplague: no, the DUT Feb 12 18:53:10 _av500_: ahh, hehe Feb 12 18:53:17 _av500_: yea, that would be cute Feb 12 18:53:54 what was that thing bunny did with hdmi/hdcp? Feb 12 18:54:25 emeb: yea that was a pass through, i have one on order Feb 12 18:54:36 I have one, and I can't even remember what it's called Feb 12 18:54:50 Russ linked to it the other day Feb 12 18:54:50 ...which says something about how useful I found it... Feb 12 18:54:53 interesting design Feb 12 18:54:58 he managed to get around the encryption by basically stamping on top of it somehow. Feb 12 18:55:24 http://hackaday.com/2012/01/21/overlaying-video-on-encrypted-hdmi-connections/ Feb 12 18:56:02 prpplague: definitely need to add a sigrok hardware module for that device! Feb 12 18:56:03 wow, u-boot mmc is slow Feb 12 18:56:08 hasn't the hdcp master been leaked a year or two ago? Feb 12 18:56:33 mdp: i'll have to get biot to do that Feb 12 18:56:36 emeb, he got around it by doing all the work of decryption, but not using the result to decrypt, but encrypt Feb 12 18:57:04 ah someone missed me Feb 12 18:57:04 prpplague: I'm slowly starting to use sigrok as a part of testing Feb 12 18:57:36 prpplague: testing individual devices is pretty poor when you need proper unit testing of a driver Feb 12 18:57:37 Russ: yeah - I remember reading the details a while back. Crazy stuff. Feb 12 18:58:11 prpplague: you can make sigrok-based test cases to measure full ranges of a pwm driver Feb 12 18:58:24 mdp: ahh nice, i wasn't aware of that Feb 12 18:58:28 prpplague: something I was going to bring up in the BoF ;) Feb 12 18:58:35 * prpplague makes a note to check out that feature Feb 12 18:58:39 it's a cli tool so it empowers us!!! Feb 12 18:58:56 I often look at the ascii art output for quick grabs while developing... Feb 12 18:59:01 that's scriptable ;) Feb 12 18:59:28 well, script can parse the raw logic stream output Feb 12 18:59:39 mdp: well the first version of the board is off to pcb house, should have them back on friday - https://docs.google.com/file/d/1lf0rNrMx_fzGXDRGWZ_v1UhGh61t1tc8evsvgDfNcw406F-oJep-rcTPOvB5/edit?usp=sharing Feb 12 19:00:00 mdp: no fpga on this version, but you could easily use it with a good 100MHz LA Feb 12 19:00:26 yep, that's the key, as long as those signals are exposed like that..just the LA works Feb 12 19:00:39 even the $50 OLS works at that range with proper probes Feb 12 19:01:23 haha nice Feb 12 19:01:26 zombie hack Feb 12 19:02:29 prpplague: yeah, if you had a nice buffer and data gathering front end it would be nice as a native sigrok input Feb 12 19:03:07 the cheap LAs don't have enough buffer for serious work at these frequencies Feb 12 19:04:19 mdp: i was thinking of just having it report the values, i.e. vsw,vbp,vfp,hsw,hfp,hbp, refresh rate, pixel clock Feb 12 19:05:11 prpplague: what eda software did you use? Feb 12 19:05:33 KotH: orcad + pads Feb 12 19:05:46 ^^' Feb 12 19:05:49 yappari Feb 12 19:06:16 * KotH finds the lack of good oss eda solutions disturbing Feb 12 19:06:58 KotH: i've been moving most of my projects to KiCad Feb 12 19:07:11 KotH: but i just started playing around with a 30day eval of diptrace Feb 12 19:08:18 prpplague: i find kicad nicer than geda, but it looks like being written by someone who only knew eagle... and thus it feels very clumsy, even for simple stuff Feb 12 19:08:32 KotH: yea, same here Feb 12 19:09:04 prpplague: what disturbs me most is, that writing a eda package isnt too dificult these days.. just a lot of work... Feb 12 19:09:11 prpplague: and yet we are stuck with kicad and geda Feb 12 19:15:25 * emeb uses geda/PCB but has tried kicad on a few projects. Feb 12 19:16:07 neither really excite me, but most of my designs are in geda, so that's my biggest library of "trusted" symbols/footprints. Feb 12 19:16:34 I have heard good things about diptrace from two different sources though. Feb 12 19:18:13 emeb: i tried it out with a small board that had a couple 555's and a serial shift register. was able to do a schematic and layout within an hour without much of tutorial Feb 12 19:18:25 prpplague: nice. Feb 12 19:20:55 prpplague: what OS did you run it on - they claim it runs under Win/Linux(Wine)/MacOS Feb 12 19:22:02 emeb: windows xp in a vmware Feb 12 19:23:30 prpplague: cool. Never been very happy with Wine. I've got a machine dedicated to Win7 tho, so might try it there. Feb 12 19:24:57 i said vmware , but i ment virtualbox Feb 12 19:25:33 prpplague: for email? Feb 12 19:25:45 mranostay: for orcad+pads Feb 12 19:29:42 <_av500_> ....The downside of this tech is that battery life of all the devices involved will be affected as data traffic increases.... Feb 12 19:29:54 <_av500_> (mesh network for emergency use) Feb 12 19:30:00 <_av500_> doh Feb 12 19:30:29 _av500_: what kind of brain fart are you reading? Feb 12 19:30:37 <_av500_> what part of "there is an emergency, the network is down" did they not get??? Feb 12 19:31:41 _av500_: this for? Feb 12 19:33:35 _av500_: source? Feb 12 19:33:39 <_av500_> sec Feb 12 19:33:50 <_av500_> https://plus.google.com/u/0/100647702320088380533/posts/EvvnkeFbbcD Feb 12 19:34:48 150 meters that is barely useful Feb 12 19:35:05 _av500_: yea saw that Feb 12 19:35:19 _av500_: i was thinking some of Crofton 's products would be better suited Feb 12 19:35:27 i hope the cops are 150 meters away Feb 12 19:35:36 and that point i can just yell for them :) Feb 12 19:35:41 maybe if you fall down a 100 meter hole? Feb 12 19:35:47 scratch that Feb 12 19:36:08 are you guys talking about stingrays Feb 12 19:36:15 <_av500_> mdp: with people falling into the same hole 30m apart? Feb 12 19:36:23 _av500_: yes! Feb 12 19:36:27 <_av500_> right Feb 12 19:36:30 heh Feb 12 19:36:32 "it's better than nothing!" Feb 12 19:36:32 <_av500_> gotta be prepared Feb 12 19:36:32 bad cops Feb 12 19:36:41 <_av500_> mdp: yes, one can always throw it Feb 12 19:37:01 * emeb somehow doubts wifi would work well underground Feb 12 19:37:03 mdp: with people that fell down at different levels? Feb 12 19:37:22 * KotH has tried BATMAN in an office with 5 nodes... it sucked badly Feb 12 19:37:30 RTTs in the range of 2s Feb 12 19:37:36 a hole in a large paper constructed dwelling? with good propagation characteristics Feb 12 19:37:41 it's better than nothing! Feb 12 19:37:45 join and leave times in the 10min range... etc pp Feb 12 19:37:52 <_av500_> anyway, one needs it only to bridge the distance to the next starbucks... Feb 12 19:37:54 <_av500_> solved Feb 12 19:37:57 agreed Feb 12 19:38:05 50 meters to each starbucks Feb 12 19:38:15 somehow i bet you are better off doing CW with that signal Feb 12 19:38:16 <_av500_> in downton NY, we are saved Feb 12 19:38:23 or in munich ;) Feb 12 19:38:29 <_av500_> nah Feb 12 19:38:45 <_av500_> zoning laws Feb 12 19:38:50 all the way from the hauptbahnhof to the altstadt seemed like ;) Feb 12 19:39:02 _av500_: i find it disturbing that people dont look at what is actually possible with current emergency communication systems Feb 12 19:39:04 <_av500_> mdp: that is only 50m Feb 12 19:39:09 see! Feb 12 19:39:24 <_av500_> KotH: they dont care Feb 12 19:39:26 <_av500_> its free Feb 12 19:39:29 <_av500_> its ad hoc Feb 12 19:39:32 <_av500_> its awesome Feb 12 19:39:41 wires want to be free Feb 12 19:39:42 <_av500_> it sticks it to the man! Feb 12 19:39:55 man-free wireless Feb 12 19:39:57 _av500_: even the uhf military radios we use in .ch suck badly in urban regions... getting more than a couple of 100m out of them, with 200W output power is pure luck Feb 12 19:40:17 <_av500_> KotH: because your military does not have no androids... Feb 12 19:40:24 <_av500_> only natels Feb 12 19:40:25 definitly Feb 12 19:40:31 imagine if you had DT in those radios Feb 12 19:40:34 KotH: that is a lot of power for a radio Feb 12 19:40:35 *bliss* Feb 12 19:40:43 _av500_: it's called SE079 in military context ;) Feb 12 19:40:46 mdp: i was thinking nodejs Feb 12 19:40:51 <_av500_> both Feb 12 19:40:59 mranostay: it's military radio :) Feb 12 19:41:14 mranostay: the handhelds have only 10 or 20W iirc Feb 12 19:41:15 <_av500_> power and net were down, but my phone kept serving big dat from systemd powered node.js Feb 12 19:41:20 <_av500_> data* Feb 12 19:41:59 let's just agree that it's best not to be in an urban environment in such a situation..unless you can make it into starbucks Feb 12 19:42:24 <_av500_> and have a shotgun or axe with you Feb 12 19:42:28 * KotH actually considers buying a couple 144MHz handhelds Feb 12 19:42:36 just in case everything else fails Feb 12 19:42:48 <_av500_> KotH: who will you talk to? Feb 12 19:42:50 now, is the scenario a zombie type apocalypse? Feb 12 19:43:00 _av500_: if noone else, my family :) Feb 12 19:43:01 <_av500_> mdp: always Feb 12 19:43:01 do I need a cleaver to avoid making noise and attracting others? Feb 12 19:43:02 _av500_: how about both? Feb 12 19:43:10 _av500_: there are still a lot of radio amateurs in .ch Feb 12 19:43:27 KotH: there's probably a lot of s/w amateurs in .ch too Feb 12 19:43:33 <_av500_> "the dead are rising" "yeah, here too" "ah, ok then" Feb 12 19:43:42 mdp: be nice :) Feb 12 19:43:53 <_av500_> mdp: strike! Feb 12 19:43:55 cq cq deadbeef rising Feb 12 19:44:28 <_av500_> "nom nom nom" Feb 12 19:44:30 mdp: yes.. but s/w sucks in .ch... groundwave gets sucked up by hills and mountains quickly (ie max radius is a couple km) and the distances are too short for space wave Feb 12 19:44:42 wrong s/w ;) Feb 12 19:44:52 <_av500_> try micro wave Feb 12 19:44:57 mdp: what other s/w? :) Feb 12 19:45:01 software :) Feb 12 19:45:03 macrowaves Feb 12 19:45:10 <_av500_> mranowaves Feb 12 19:45:25 * mranostay looks for a beer bottle Feb 12 19:45:38 <_av500_> beer waves Feb 12 19:45:45 <_av500_> muy bien Feb 12 19:46:02 mdp: in the army, i'm in a shortwave radio company Feb 12 19:46:14 mdp: and our biggest problem is distance ^^' Feb 12 19:46:27 <_av500_> KotH: just use more radio people Feb 12 19:46:29 we usually get better reception of usian and chinese stations then our own ^^' Feb 12 19:46:32 <_av500_> space them closer together Feb 12 19:46:47 KotH: have a radio every 100 ft :) Feb 12 19:46:47 <_av500_> try shouting distance Feb 12 19:46:53 <_av500_> use wifi mesh Feb 12 19:46:59 <_av500_> solved, next Feb 12 19:47:04 <_av500_> ! Feb 12 19:47:10 actually, switzerland uses the cloud! Feb 12 19:47:30 <_av500_> big data! Feb 12 19:47:44 barefoot runners with a onetime pad Feb 12 19:48:35 mdp: message tatooed on the shaved head...and letting hair grow again :) Feb 12 19:48:56 latency? Feb 12 19:49:02 unimportant Feb 12 19:49:11 must you always be in a hurry? Feb 12 19:49:25 by the time anyone in .ch picks up their rifle, the bombers are already back at their airfields Feb 12 19:54:05 oh oh routing with mesh routers Feb 12 19:54:35 juup, we expect a working and tested implementation by next year Feb 12 19:54:35 nothing beats adov Feb 12 19:54:36 haha Feb 12 19:55:24 yet another broadcast based network Feb 12 19:55:24 hm javafx on ios and android Feb 12 20:02:16 g'night all Feb 12 20:03:30 nite panto Feb 12 20:03:39 *sniff* Feb 12 20:07:19 no henkie in mranoland? Feb 12 20:12:15 * mranostay uses KotH's sleeve Feb 12 20:12:27 gross! Feb 12 20:12:47 * KotH takes off his t-shirt and burns it Feb 12 20:12:58 you guys must be a real hoot when you're actually in the same room... Feb 12 20:13:29 we are in the same room Feb 12 20:13:39 <_av500_> chät room Feb 12 20:13:59 * KotH steals _av500_s ¨ Feb 12 20:14:09 haha Feb 12 20:14:17 party on Feb 12 20:14:18 <_av500_> hähä Feb 12 20:14:31 emeb: we have a troll pic Feb 12 20:15:23 hmmmm Feb 12 20:15:41 emeb: join us in edinburgh this fall :) Feb 12 20:16:04 <_av500_> ...He said that, because I’m not shooting with film, my camera did not need to make clicking noises.... Feb 12 20:16:10 KotH: been there, done that. Feb 12 20:16:27 emeb: and you still missed the trolls? Feb 12 20:16:46 _av500_: And you told him that Yes, it did, because it's a camera? :D Feb 12 20:16:51 KotH: Been to edinburgh. Never met the trolls. Feb 12 20:16:53 what is at edinburgh? Feb 12 20:16:59 unless ds2 counts as a troll... :) Feb 12 20:17:09 ds2: http://events.linuxfoundation.org/events/embedded-linux-conference-europe Feb 12 20:17:21 ah Feb 12 20:17:23 i don't see ds2 as a troll Feb 12 20:17:29 that is uk? Feb 12 20:17:34 mranostay: way too nice? Feb 12 20:17:35 * prpplague is already planning his ELCE trip Feb 12 20:17:45 ds2: scottland ;) Feb 12 20:17:46 <-- inert Feb 12 20:18:16 finally ELCE in a place i actually want to visit Feb 12 20:18:20 daveland! Feb 12 20:18:22 KotH: u for independence? Feb 12 20:18:29 Have some haggis! Feb 12 20:18:36 ds2: and neutrality! Feb 12 20:18:41 * emeb had haggis in edinburgh Feb 12 20:18:45 trolls are susceptible to fire... let's burn him and see... just a little mind you Feb 12 20:18:58 no chance for fall events this year Feb 12 20:19:01 prpplague: we need a better place for muggings Feb 12 20:20:18 a warmer place Feb 12 20:20:22 with more sun Feb 12 20:20:28 and more beaches Feb 12 20:20:55 * KotH votes for adana Feb 12 20:21:15 Embedded Linux Conference Barbados! Feb 12 20:21:19 <_av500_> KotH: that threads get stupider and stupider Feb 12 20:21:31 _av500_: the mesh thread? Feb 12 20:21:33 <_av500_> ... I hope they continue to build on this and the Red Cross becomes a supporter while utilizing the same. ... Feb 12 20:21:39 lol Feb 12 20:21:56 _av500_: ignorance is a bliss Feb 12 20:22:32 there can only be one [troll]! Feb 12 20:22:39 _av500_: tell them that at least the swiss red cross uses old military equipment for shortwave and uhf radio :) Feb 12 20:23:15 _av500_: and it works probably better than any mesh stuff based on some consumer grade cell phone that breaks when you sit on it Feb 12 20:23:38 KotH: yeah not going to Turkey Feb 12 20:23:48 I don't care if it is technically in Europe Feb 12 20:24:17 the old shortwave radio, consisting of 4 30-40kg heavy boxes was known to withstand a 10m fall onto concrete (and was frequently thrown down holes to get them into the bunkers) Feb 12 20:24:38 <_av500_> this will cheer you all up: http://www.deathandtaxesmag.com/187511/84-pictures-of-dead-malls/ Feb 12 20:24:43 havent had a chance to try the new ones yet ;) Feb 12 20:24:48 KotH: there has to be a better way :) Feb 12 20:25:13 mdp: agreed Feb 12 20:25:26 mranostay: to get them down the hole? Feb 12 20:25:30 yeah Feb 12 20:25:43 mranostay: not if you only have 15min to install the whole system Feb 12 20:25:52 mranostay: and as i said, it withstands it Feb 12 20:25:56 mdp: Rolling Afros Mall still there? :) Feb 12 20:26:24 mranostay: this stuff was build to double as bricks to build a bomb shelter Feb 12 20:27:04 prpplague I am planning too Feb 12 20:27:17 mranostay: http://www.armyradio.ch/radio-e/se-430-e.htm Feb 12 20:27:39 woglinde: hehe Feb 12 20:27:57 finally you could book easyjet for oct Feb 12 20:28:11 mranostay: the big picture is the actual shortwave radio. the two other similar sized boxes are the PA and its power supply. the big box under the pile is a laptop+printer Feb 12 20:28:51 _av500_: http://ge.evu.ch/images/2007_SE430bernex1.jpg Feb 12 20:29:08 _av500_: what the red cross really uses... compare to the link above Feb 12 20:29:09 woglinde: just fyi, i am planning to fly into LHR and then take a train to Milton Keynes for a few days Feb 12 20:29:20 woglinde: spend some time at bletchley Feb 12 20:31:09 prpplague hope your new job will allow it Feb 12 20:31:26 mranostay: http://www.armyradio.ch/radio-d/se-430-arb-platz.htm <- these trucks were fun to work with... complete radio system installed inside, including a 20kW generator (WWII edition) in the back of the truck.. which you had to take out to operate using a small crane Feb 12 20:31:53 * woglinde wonders if koth is really one person Feb 12 20:31:59 woglinde: hehe, i am going anyway, hehe Feb 12 20:32:01 woglinde: lol Feb 12 20:32:03 woglinde: why? Feb 12 20:32:18 koth you talking about to much stuff Feb 12 20:32:30 prpplague: never cancel "PTO" for work :) Feb 12 20:32:37 woglinde: ich rede viel wenn der talk lang ist.. und die tage sind lang ;) Feb 12 20:32:57 <_av500_> und viel Feb 12 20:33:33 mranostay: if you wonder what the empty spot below the radio in that truck is, that's where the crypto system would be mounted :) Feb 12 20:34:22 interesting Feb 12 20:34:48 hm I do not get it Feb 12 20:34:54 http://www.armyradio.ch/radio-images/se-430-t.jpg <- crypto system is the one in the top shelf on the right Feb 12 20:35:01 porting gallium llvmpipe to ppc Feb 12 20:35:04 So if you happen to be a PowerPC user without any graphics support, things may get better through Gallium3D optimizations for the CPU architecture Feb 12 20:35:13 <_av500_> yes Feb 12 20:35:22 <_av500_> woglinde: your ppc based copier needs that Feb 12 20:35:23 KotH: how long do you have to be on active status when first conscripted? Feb 12 20:35:32 if i do not have graphics Feb 12 20:35:41 mranostay: until you fullfill your days Feb 12 20:35:42 how should that be going better Feb 12 20:35:42 <_av500_> but my copier has Feb 12 20:35:56 <_av500_> even color Feb 12 20:35:59 <_av500_> touchscreen Feb 12 20:36:06 mranostay: normal soilder is ~300days, the higher your rank is the more days it is Feb 12 20:36:53 koth do you still have your gun? Feb 12 20:36:58 mranostay: these days most people are finished before they reach their 30s Feb 12 20:37:17 woglinde: yes, i have an full automatic assault rifle under my bed ;) Feb 12 20:38:07 can we go shooting sometime? Feb 12 20:38:44 sure Feb 12 20:39:03 i'm just not allowed to take the riffle out of the country, as it is a military weapon Feb 12 20:39:25 though, it's not different to shoot with than an m3 Feb 12 20:39:47 it's a standard issue 5.6mm (nearly nato) rifle Feb 12 20:40:13 hm I only had g3 with 7,2 mmm Feb 12 20:40:17 and utzi Feb 12 20:40:27 but 120mm mortar Feb 12 20:40:30 haha Feb 12 20:40:31 mg ftw Feb 12 20:40:44 er, m-n Feb 12 20:40:52 7.62x54R Feb 12 20:41:01 * _av500_ had only sarcasm Feb 12 20:41:01 ah right 7,62 Feb 12 20:41:08 av500 yes Feb 12 20:42:01 _5.65mm_ Feb 12 20:42:02 Russ: was shooting those this weekend :) Feb 12 20:42:08 exact numberz! Feb 12 20:42:18 mdp: nope, the military issue sg550 is 5.6mm Feb 12 20:42:23 I think I got mine for $25 Feb 12 20:42:35 mdp: that's why i wrote "nearly nato" Feb 12 20:42:40 mdp: it's not nato amunition Feb 12 20:42:44 KotH: ahhh Feb 12 20:42:48 fake! Feb 12 20:42:49 ;) Feb 12 20:43:01 in any case...7.62x39 ftw! Feb 12 20:43:31 its a type 53 that looks like its been pretty heavily used Feb 12 20:43:33 mdp: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5.6mm_Gw_Pat_90#5.6mm_Gw_Pat_90 Feb 12 20:44:09 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Cartouches-Fass90-p1000785.jpg <- every soilder in .ch used to have such a cartridge at home Feb 12 20:45:08 they took them back after a shooting incident where sg550s where used (though not military issue) Feb 12 20:45:19 that's weird they just claim compatibility Feb 12 20:45:21 afaik there are still 10'000 of those missing and nobody knows what happend to them Feb 12 20:45:26 but I guess exactness is not required Feb 12 20:45:46 mdp: the sig550 has been specially designed to be compatible to the nato 5.56mm Feb 12 20:45:51 a NATO chamber creates different pressures than a .223 remington chamber when selecting an AR15 Feb 12 20:46:13 yeah, but the chamber pressure will be different...it makes a difference...well, mostly in a match grade rifle ;) Feb 12 20:46:26 science and all that Feb 12 20:46:28 yes, it wont be as precise anymore Feb 12 20:46:46 but useful if you need to throw lead in a "situation" Feb 12 20:46:48 you will not be able to shoot someone into his head on 300m, but as look as you can shoot... Feb 12 20:47:08 hm 300m meters Feb 12 20:47:34 woglinde: standard shooting distance for swiss army Feb 12 20:47:50 hm we had 400m Feb 12 20:48:02 mdp: nice thing about the sig550 is its precision. with very little training you can hit a cup on 300m, with no optics Feb 12 20:48:18 mdp: ofc, under the condition you can see the cup :) Feb 12 20:48:52 our johnny appleseed training events teach that skill with common rifles...out to 500 yards open sights Feb 12 20:49:09 johnny appleseed training? Feb 12 20:49:19 appleseedinfo.org Feb 12 20:50:53 nice Feb 12 20:51:52 seeing a cup at 300 yards? Feb 12 20:54:34 <_av500_> is the cup half full? Feb 12 20:55:09 afterwards it's fully empty Feb 12 20:58:00 * KotH still wonders whether he should keep his rifle after service Feb 12 20:58:11 KotH, yes Feb 12 20:58:14 no Feb 12 20:58:18 ka6sox-away: why? Feb 12 20:58:20 woglinde: why? Feb 12 20:58:37 and axe is good enough Feb 12 20:58:43 ups an axe Feb 12 20:58:53 <_av500_> UPS? Feb 12 20:58:59 * KotH doesnt have a gimli to wield the axe Feb 12 20:59:02 <_av500_> fedex an axe! Feb 12 20:59:10 hermes it was Feb 12 20:59:13 <_av500_> fedaxe it! Feb 12 21:01:50 * KotH lols at the swiss weapons law Feb 12 21:02:41 until 2004 every swiss was allowed to get a gun permit w/o giving any reason. in 2004 they had to add reason why you wanted a weapon thanks to the EU Feb 12 21:03:00 * KotH guesses the EU was scared by too many swiss having assault rifles Feb 12 21:03:05 <_av500_> KotH: is "because of the EU" a valid readon? Feb 12 21:03:13 <_av500_> reason Feb 12 21:03:31 _av500_: http://www.admin.ch/ch/d/sr/514_54/a8.html <- read note 3, attached to abs 1bis Feb 12 21:04:25 <_av500_> seems like schengen nations agreed on common gun laws Feb 12 21:04:32 <_av500_> makes sense with open borders Feb 12 21:04:53 looks like it Feb 12 21:08:52 _av500_: actually the whole gun law is full of references to schengen Feb 12 21:09:16 looks like most of the revisions were not made due to gun violence but due to schengen contracts Feb 12 21:09:59 mranostay: you'll like that pic of a normal swiss celar: http://www.swissinfo.ch/media/cms/images/keystone/2004/10/sriimg20041008_5264353_1.jpg Feb 12 21:10:55 an assault PC! Feb 12 21:13:41 <_av500_> and assault BBQ Feb 12 21:14:09 mmm BBQ Feb 12 21:14:32 _av500_: you get the burgers i'll get the Coors Light Feb 12 21:15:29 jkridner: can we request PBR in the Troll Lounge? :P Feb 12 21:15:34 +1 Feb 12 21:16:09 +1 Feb 12 21:16:15 I'll trade a couple of boards to someone who wants to bring enough beer to share. :) Feb 12 21:16:26 hehe Feb 12 21:17:52 jkridner: what boards? Feb 12 21:18:16 Rev A2 BeagleBones? :) Feb 12 21:18:39 unless we start talking about better beer than PBR. :) Feb 12 21:19:59 hipster trolls Feb 12 21:20:09 _av500_: lol, "Some governments will not like this...." :) Feb 12 21:21:06 jkridner: you can't make a beeramid with bottles Feb 12 21:22:33 there is a wiki page on this?.. Feb 12 21:36:47 a better beer than PBR...unpossible Feb 12 21:39:59 http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2013/02/04/science/girls-lead-in-science-exam-but-not-in-the-united-states.html <- interesting Feb 12 21:45:33 mdp come to germany Feb 12 21:45:56 been there, personal assistant and I love it ;) Feb 12 21:47:06 I need to engage sartalics! Feb 12 21:56:40 <_av500_> KotH: yeah Feb 12 21:56:49 <_av500_> its a constipcy! Feb 12 21:56:53 <_av500_> its a constipacy! Feb 12 21:57:01 <_av500_> \o/ I just repaired my washing machine Feb 12 22:09:59 whew! we weren't going to say anything... Feb 12 22:10:20 <_av500_> stupid connector fell of the heater Feb 12 22:10:43 ah, right. DE washers boil the water. Feb 12 22:10:50 <_av500_> a nd then it just goes on for hours, waiting for the water to get warm - no timeout Feb 12 22:10:54 <_av500_> emeb: not boild Feb 12 22:10:59 <_av500_> just 30deg Feb 12 22:11:01 <_av500_> or 40 Feb 12 22:11:04 _regulated_ Feb 12 22:11:11 <_av500_> yes Feb 12 22:11:22 <_av500_> but there is no SW failsafe, no heating = endless loop Feb 12 22:11:26 _av500_: ya - forgot my irony tags again Feb 12 22:11:37 they should put rfid in the care labels on clothes so the machine can adjust automatically Feb 12 22:11:40 <_av500_> now I know how to diagnose that :) Feb 12 22:11:49 *whew* glad it's not a constipationcy Feb 12 22:11:59 emeb: no, ironing is something you do after washing Feb 12 22:12:06 lols Feb 12 22:12:11 if you're of the bent that insists on it in the first place Feb 12 22:12:12 good nite Feb 12 22:12:16 not me Feb 12 22:12:25 I'm wrinkly and proud of it. Feb 12 22:12:31 a have a few shirts that do need it Feb 12 22:12:34 I very rarely wear them Feb 12 22:12:55 yes - they hang in the closet and I look at them and think "why mess them up?" Feb 12 22:13:17 <_av500_> +1 Feb 12 22:13:24 every few years I end up in a situation where shirt is required Feb 12 22:13:51 but then the shoulders are dusty... Feb 12 22:19:08 <_av500_> OMG, I must buy this study: http://www.bdti.com/InsideDSP/2013/02/13/CaseStudy Feb 12 22:19:23 <_av500_> since I have no idea how to operate a current meter Feb 12 22:19:52 I'm trying to compile 'dtc' (Device Tree Compiler) natively on BeagleBone under Angstrom to see if I can create dtbo's and load them at run time, but I'm getting the error "flex: fatal internal error, exec failed" when running flex on convert-dtsv0-lexar.l. Repo is at git://www.jdl.com/software/dtc.git. Feb 12 22:21:31 exec failed are you running out of memory? Feb 12 22:23:18 <_av500_> maybe node.js can help here? Feb 12 22:27:40 hey, there's a prpplague in my office Feb 12 22:28:08 I think I have plenty of free ram. Perhaps I'll run strace. Feb 12 22:28:28 <_av500_> koen-: no bug spray? Feb 12 22:28:58 nope Feb 12 22:29:32 <_av500_> koen-: say hi from me Feb 12 22:29:41 <_av500_> and hug him Feb 12 22:29:46 lol Feb 12 22:29:50 \o/ Feb 12 22:31:10 av500: said hi Feb 12 22:32:18 <_av500_> good Feb 12 23:04:32 where can I find kernel source files for beagleboard-xm? Feb 12 23:04:47 http://www.angstrom-distribution.org/building-angstrom Feb 12 23:06:13 toneeee: I would like to have ubuntu-server Feb 12 23:06:44 ufsu_: I do not know. Feb 12 23:15:44 toneeee: Have you started with http://eLinux.org/BeagleBoardUbuntu ? Feb 12 23:16:06 wmat: i have a new elinux slogan for you Feb 12 23:16:10 jkridner: no, I don't need it. Angstrom is fine, BUT one day I might try it Feb 12 23:16:20 "elinux.org - home of the 'exact steps'" Feb 12 23:16:26 oops, I meant to direct that to ufsu_ Feb 12 23:17:44 * mranostay publically shames jkridner Feb 12 23:18:11 Nah I could still use ubuntu one fine day Feb 12 23:20:16 jkridner: thank you Feb 12 23:20:58 jkridner: what is the difference between the ubuntus on elinux.org and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ARM/OMAP ? Feb 12 23:22:32 the ubuntu page is upstream work targeting various platforms. the elinux.org page is work done specifically in the BeagleBoard community to use Ubuntu on BeagleBoard. Feb 12 23:23:45 Ideally, Ubuntu would pick up this work and have it delivered with the upstream bundles, but they don't always pick up platform-level issues. Feb 12 23:25:06 jkridner: thank you Feb 12 23:41:59 koen-: I tried a simple flex example and confirmed that flex is broken in the latest images. Feb 13 00:10:43 hooray http://hastebin.com/bufukovuye.vhdl Feb 13 00:32:55 is that fastbooting on a bone? Feb 13 00:36:50 like how hastebin gives it a filetype .vhdl Feb 13 00:38:22 * Crofton is chipscoping Feb 13 00:40:36 chipscope rules Feb 13 00:40:53 just wish it were scriptable. Feb 13 00:45:17 it seems to be improving progress Feb 13 00:51:27 mranostay: heh Feb 13 01:01:15 wmat: you order the keg of PBR? Feb 13 01:01:27 or is it just pizza still? Feb 13 01:02:13 mranostay: just pizza, I think Feb 13 01:02:27 mranostay: there are some sweet prizes for wiki edits though Feb 13 01:03:14 you may have notices that ELC is broken into tech zones this year Feb 13 01:03:16 wmat: so i can edit the same page 40 times :) Feb 13 01:03:29 no troll zone? Feb 13 01:03:32 real-time, security, boot-time, etc. etc. Feb 13 01:03:40 shh, that's a secret zone Feb 13 01:03:52 * mranostay wonders what his talk is under Feb 13 01:03:58 misc crap to get a conference pass :) Feb 13 01:04:14 you doing the telemetry talk? Feb 13 01:04:34 yeah Feb 13 01:05:01 networking then, i'd guess Feb 13 01:05:19 why no troll zone? Feb 13 01:06:16 that'll be in the bar later Feb 13 01:06:51 hmm networking really? Feb 13 01:07:43 mru: which trolls are coming to this one? Feb 13 01:07:48 that weren't in ELCE Feb 13 01:08:07 not sure Feb 13 01:08:38 mranostay: I asked TimB where your talk would land Feb 13 01:09:59 so no bitbanging zone? :) Feb 13 01:20:35 * mranostay rubs prpplague's bald head Feb 13 01:20:53 wow getting kinda freaky in here... Feb 13 01:21:18 prpplague: was getting too quiet had to bring it up Feb 13 01:21:25 ahh Feb 13 01:22:13 * emeb looks up HR contact info Feb 13 01:22:33 prpplague: you have any demos for ELC? Feb 13 01:22:59 mranostay: no demos this time around Feb 13 01:23:02 he'll be demoing the proper way to shotgun a beer Feb 13 01:23:11 the LA way? Feb 13 01:23:19 mranostay: although i am overseeing the beaglebone tutorials Feb 13 01:24:15 just got back from having a few beers with koen Feb 13 01:30:16 bone daddy's? Feb 13 01:30:34 we are still working on the left coast Feb 13 01:34:46 Crofton: hehe, fox and hound Feb 13 01:37:15 anyone know how to change the splash screen on the pico projector? Feb 13 01:38:53 er Feb 13 01:40:21 prpplague: mcdonaldsDaddy's Feb 13 02:23:33 koen-: work-around is 'export M4=m4' Feb 13 02:23:43 issue is http://www.mail-archive.com/cygwin@cygwin.com/msg89665.html Feb 13 02:24:16 wow, 2008. k. not certain that is the issue, but that is where I found the work-around. **** ENDING LOGGING AT Wed Feb 13 02:59:58 2013