**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Apr 23 02:59:58 2013
Apr 23 03:03:49 <noobish_> :(
Apr 23 03:06:26 <noobish_> damn, mmc wipes out 9 pins.
Apr 23 03:06:26 <crashovrd> you could always start a boy band instead
Apr 23 03:06:32 <Shadyman> ^
Apr 23 03:06:33 <Shadyman> woot
Apr 23 03:06:34 <noobish_> true dat.
Apr 23 03:09:31 <noobish_> hdmi wipes out something like 11 pins
Apr 23 03:10:04 <mranostay> this tech thing is a fad
Apr 23 03:10:15 <mranostay> we should all start a boy band
Apr 23 03:10:40 <ds2> only after you get your emacapiation papers, mranostay
Apr 23 03:11:15 <mranostay> ds2: die!
Apr 23 03:16:35 <noobish_> i'm afraid to look to see if they could have used mmc2 instead.
Apr 23 03:16:52 <noobish_> i don't want to know. the rage would be blinding.
Apr 23 03:50:41 <PRU_EVTOUT_2> So, i2c1 and i2c2 go to the expansion header. how do those relate to the /dev/i2c-n?
Apr 23 03:51:10 <PRU_EVTOUT_2> i'm assuming i2c-1 maps to /dev/i2c-2, which isn't accessible?
Apr 23 03:55:57 <Shadyman> both are accessible
Apr 23 03:57:02 <Shadyman> i think?
Apr 23 03:58:35 <PRU_EVTOUT_2> hrmm, from random newsgroup posts, looks like it was enabled in later kernels.
Apr 23 03:59:02 <PRU_EVTOUT_2> i'm running angstrom, 3.2.34 so I guess i need to update.
Apr 23 03:59:58 <PRU_EVTOUT_2> seems odd to disable a bus on an embedded linux device, designed to interface with external stuff, just because it doesn't have a pullup built on. :-\
Apr 23 04:01:44 <PRU_EVTOUT_2> lol, beaglebone acts SUPER strange when you try to run it with the sd card popped out. does it even wireless?
Apr 23 04:04:53 <uniim> good day, i wanted to inquire for the beaglebone black, what accessory/break out boards make sense for it?
Apr 23 04:06:20 <MijailR> hello!
Apr 23 04:07:13 <MijailR> i want to know if there is any page with good projects examples for beaglebone..
Apr 23 04:07:55 <PRU_EVTOUT_2> holy crap, i'm out of date!
Apr 23 04:08:04 <PRU_EVTOUT_2> MijailR: what do you have in mind?
Apr 23 04:08:36 <PRU_EVTOUT_2> it's a computer. you can do ANYTHING! :O
Apr 23 04:09:06 <PRU_EVTOUT_2> and you can wiggle voltages on wires really fast, in all sorts of ways.
Apr 23 04:09:14 <PRU_EVTOUT_2> and connect things like webcams
Apr 23 04:09:17 <PRU_EVTOUT_2> cause it's a computer.
Apr 23 04:10:03 <uniim> answer me next PRU_EVTOUT_2 :)
Apr 23 04:10:21 <uniim> are there any common accessories people buy for the beagle bone boards?
Apr 23 04:10:52 <PRU_EVTOUT_2> http://www.mouser.com/new/beagleboardorg/beaglebonecapes/
Apr 23 04:10:54 <torii_> hi, hello.
Apr 23 04:10:56 <uniim> are there 'break out' boards that unlock more features or can you just basically use the 48x2 pinout outputs how you wish?
Apr 23 04:11:28 <PRU_EVTOUT_2> your google search kung-fu is more like google search king-poo
Apr 23 04:12:08 <uniim> :( just wanted to get a quicker answer
Apr 23 04:12:18 <uniim> i can google ok .. just wanted to get a quick answer
Apr 23 04:12:42 <uniim> kk, i'll just grab a beagle bone black and some breadboard jumper wires to start
Apr 23 04:13:36 <uniim> also, i've always wondered with boards like this .. for the distros and stuff that run on it .. are you able to dig deep into them and play w/ the memory mapped io?
Apr 23 04:13:55 <uniim> like.. is there C code sitting there pertaining to all the underlying hardware and can you get in and mess w/ it?
Apr 23 04:14:28 <uniim> basically, if one is inclined, can I write my on ROTs
Apr 23 04:14:37 <uniim> RTOS.. sorry
Apr 23 04:15:19 <uniim> like, is there a loader that can compile to target and load whatever code I want onto the board as its main OS?
Apr 23 04:15:28 <crashovrd> yes
Apr 23 04:15:31 <crashovrd> uboot
Apr 23 04:15:40 <crashovrd> all the code is open source in the linux kernel
Apr 23 04:15:41 <uniim> awesome :D .. this keeps getting better and better
Apr 23 04:16:00 <uniim> does it have JTAG or some similar such debugger?
Apr 23 04:16:00 <crashovrd> the only thing preventing you taking it further is the GPL license of said code
Apr 23 04:16:16 <crashovrd> if GPL is not an issue for your use case, you're good to go
Apr 23 04:16:22 <uniim> :D w00t
Apr 23 04:16:43 <crashovrd> on bb black, i have no idea re jtag
Apr 23 04:16:55 <uniim> awwww, kk.. what about the previous version?
Apr 23 04:17:05 <crashovrd> the bb1 does
Apr 23 04:17:10 <uniim> is there a graphical debugger that lets you see the register values and step through code?
Apr 23 04:17:20 <uniim> all that good stuff?
Apr 23 04:17:30 <crashovrd> and iirc, there are jtag headers on bb 'antique'
Apr 23 04:17:35 <crashovrd> :)
Apr 23 04:17:36 <uniim> that's my last questioN :)
Apr 23 04:17:43 <crashovrd> i have no idea how else to refer to them
Apr 23 04:17:53 <crashovrd> i got a BB rev C3
Apr 23 04:18:02 <uniim> like.. is there a graphical ide that lets you step through the pc counter
Apr 23 04:18:08 <uniim> and see the CPU registers?
Apr 23 04:18:13 <crashovrd> with a lovely capacitor soldered to the expansion pins to make USB work
Apr 23 04:18:24 <crashovrd> oh the follies of my youth
Apr 23 04:18:28 * crashovrd flashes back
Apr 23 04:18:28 <uniim> i used to code on arm back in the day
Apr 23 04:18:40 <uniim> forgot the dev board i was on
Apr 23 04:18:52 <uniim> think they used some codewarrior interface
Apr 23 04:19:01 <crashovrd> you can use GDB on it
Apr 23 04:19:04 <uniim> it was pretty cool.. jtag .. you could step through the code ..
Apr 23 04:19:07 <uniim> ah', gdb
Apr 23 04:19:09 <crashovrd> so any ide that supports that should work
Apr 23 04:19:12 <uniim> kk, this is good too
Apr 23 04:19:16 <uniim> k, i'm sold
Apr 23 04:19:26 <uniim> can't wait to join the community. going to be one as soon as its avail.
Apr 23 04:19:34 <uniim> thnx so much chrashovrd
Apr 23 04:19:41 <uniim> be = buy
Apr 23 04:19:50 <PRU_EVTOUT_2>  uniim, generally, embedded linux is used to make development super dirt easy.
Apr 23 04:20:07 <uniim> i dont want ez ;)
Apr 23 04:20:12 <PRU_EVTOUT_2> c/c++/python/node.js/whatever rather than asm/cpu registers/tears at night
Apr 23 04:20:20 <uniim> i want to get back to my good ol' days where I screwed with very low level code
Apr 23 04:20:27 <uniim> C is where its at...
Apr 23 04:20:41 <uniim> not about that high level nonsense : python/c++/node.js
Apr 23 04:20:42 <uniim> =P
Apr 23 04:20:57 <PRU_EVTOUT_2> "some people like to use tools to make interesting things, some people like to make tools, and some people like to just sit there and play with tools"
Apr 23 04:21:05 <uniim> want to re-sharpen my skills in low level code manipulation
Apr 23 04:21:19 <PRU_EVTOUT_2> i'm writing most of my stuff in c
Apr 23 04:21:23 <uniim> my job doesn't challenge me enough
Apr 23 04:21:30 <uniim> lost all my skills i learned in school
Apr 23 04:21:32 <PRU_EVTOUT_2> difference is, i have an ssh session into the beaglebone, and am compiling and running it on there.
Apr 23 04:21:36 <uniim> need to resharpen em
Apr 23 04:22:02 <crashovrd> i use filezilla to copy files to my RPi over ssh
Apr 23 04:22:05 <crashovrd> super easy
Apr 23 04:22:07 <uniim> yeah, i work in a similar such environment at work
Apr 23 04:22:08 <crashovrd> no extra config required
Apr 23 04:22:20 <PRU_EVTOUT_2> oh, well then that IS no fun then :P
Apr 23 04:22:37 <uniim> ha, you'd be surprised how lame corp programming is
Apr 23 04:22:39 <uniim> and ez
Apr 23 04:22:47 <uniim> i did more challenging stuff in grad school
Apr 23 04:23:05 <PRU_EVTOUT_2> crashovrd: I use a network share, modify stuffs on my pc, then use them instantly on my beaglebone.
Apr 23 04:23:07 <PRU_EVTOUT_2> BRING IT
Apr 23 04:23:07 <uniim> i feel like i've become dumber since i left
Apr 23 04:23:17 <PRU_EVTOUT_2> that's the way of work.
Apr 23 04:23:26 <uniim> :D will do ! can't wait to get started.. i guess beagle bone black will be avail soon
Apr 23 04:23:42 <crashovrd> i prefer easy
Apr 23 04:23:47 <crashovrd> in fact ...
Apr 23 04:23:54 * crashovrd pauses for dramatic effect
Apr 23 04:24:02 <uniim> depends on what i'm trying to get done.. i really like to dig into low level stuff
Apr 23 04:24:04 <PRU_EVTOUT_2> there a neon unit and graphics accelerators on it too.
Apr 23 04:24:04 <crashovrd> i code mostly in C#!
Apr 23 04:24:07 <PRU_EVTOUT_2> so have fun with that! :D
Apr 23 04:24:23 <uniim> oh i will .. going to get right into the guts of it :D
Apr 23 04:24:42 <crashovrd> i am the outcast
Apr 23 04:24:43 <PRU_EVTOUT_2> crashovrd: i wish i could make thene beaglebone pins wiggle data out at 15MHz with c#!
Apr 23 04:24:50 <crashovrd> i use a managed language
Apr 23 04:24:56 <crashovrd> and graphics + sound
Apr 23 04:25:01 <uniim> C or bust for me
Apr 23 04:25:02 <crashovrd> i am shunned in the embedded world!
Apr 23 04:25:05 <crashovrd> im a pariah
Apr 23 04:25:08 <crashovrd> :D
Apr 23 04:25:08 <PRU_EVTOUT_2> you sicken me!!
Apr 23 04:25:10 <uniim> bwahahah
Apr 23 04:25:14 <PRU_EVTOUT_2> uniim, what's wrong with asm?
Apr 23 04:25:17 <uniim> C/assembly
Apr 23 04:25:22 <uniim> that's where i'm at
Apr 23 04:25:31 <torii_> I have a question, Is a saler here?
Apr 23 04:25:41 <PRU_EVTOUT_2> there are two 200MHz coprocessors on the beaglebone, only to use them is asm, so have fun with that!
Apr 23 04:25:50 <uniim> w00t
Apr 23 04:25:53 <uniim> yeah, what are those for?
Apr 23 04:25:57 <uniim> i was confused by that...
Apr 23 04:26:04 <PRU_EVTOUT_2> torii_: there's a user list on the right
Apr 23 04:26:14 <PRU_EVTOUT_2> uniim, they're meant for real time stuff
Apr 23 04:26:19 <uniim> i used to work on the iphone dev team =P .. i love me some arm assembly
Apr 23 04:26:28 <PRU_EVTOUT_2> they're not arm
Apr 23 04:26:32 <crashovrd> i think the intent was to allow real time control while running a non-realtime environment like linux
Apr 23 04:26:35 <uniim> lame.. what are there?
Apr 23 04:26:38 <PRU_EVTOUT_2> they have a super simple instruction set
Apr 23 04:26:40 <uniim> kinda confused here
Apr 23 04:27:03 <uniim> never have seen such an architecture...
Apr 23 04:27:13 <uniim> co-processor .. how does that work?
Apr 23 04:27:22 <torii_> I would like to buy BeagleBord Black, Would you deal shipping to Japan?
Apr 23 04:27:26 <uniim> do they still wait on interrupts from the main proc?
Apr 23 04:27:36 <PRU_EVTOUT_2> basically, two crummy 200MHz microcontrollers with a really limited instruction set, 8kb of iram, 8kb of dram, 12kb of shared dram, and access to full (well, non priveledgedded) system memory
Apr 23 04:27:53 <PRU_EVTOUT_2> with access to some of the gpio
Apr 23 04:27:54 <uniim> ah', can they access the i/o pins?
Apr 23 04:27:59 <PRU_EVTOUT_2> some of them, yes.
Apr 23 04:28:02 <uniim> kk, same gpio
Apr 23 04:28:05 <uniim> some..
Apr 23 04:28:07 <uniim> read/write priv?
Apr 23 04:28:44 <PRU_EVTOUT_2> well, read or write.
Apr 23 04:28:55 <uniim> what i don't understand.. do they have their own clocks/etc .. like do they run indepdently of the main cpu?
Apr 23 04:29:03 <PRU_EVTOUT_2> to flip them from read to write, you'll have to use a kernel driver of some sort.
Apr 23 04:29:05 <uniim> if so, how in the world are resource conflicts handled?
Apr 23 04:29:12 <PRU_EVTOUT_2> yeah, totally independent.
Apr 23 04:29:17 <uniim> wow, interesting
Apr 23 04:29:21 <crashovrd> hardware spinlock iirc
Apr 23 04:29:30 <uniim> :) those spinlock loops
Apr 23 04:29:33 <crashovrd> i recall seeing that somewhre in the data sheet
Apr 23 04:29:33 <uniim> yum
Apr 23 04:29:44 <uniim> cool cool
Apr 23 04:29:47 <PRU_EVTOUT_2> well, when they access the system memory, they have to go through a proper memory bus
Apr 23 04:29:48 <_av500_> yarn
Apr 23 04:29:55 <uniim> ah'
Apr 23 04:30:02 <uniim> and so all that code is open source?
Apr 23 04:30:08 <uniim> these drivers and such?
Apr 23 04:30:14 <uniim> so i can fiddle with em and modify em?
Apr 23 04:30:23 <crashovrd> only the video drivers are closed
Apr 23 04:30:26 <PRU_EVTOUT_2> everything is open source.
Apr 23 04:30:35 <PRU_EVTOUT_2> err...yeah.
Apr 23 04:30:38 <uniim> w000t ! .. god i'm having a nerdgasm right now
Apr 23 04:30:46 <_av500_> fine
Apr 23 04:30:47 <PRU_EVTOUT_2> and, the pru stuff is kinda "as is, no support"
Apr 23 04:31:04 <uniim> kk, awesome. i'll spare you guys the flood of questions that are in the f**** memos
Apr 23 04:31:15 <uniim> thank you guys so so very much though :)
Apr 23 04:31:24 <uniim> has gotten my excitement up on the possibilities of fiddling
Apr 23 04:34:22 <uniim> nite all
Apr 23 04:39:46 <mijailr> hello...
Apr 23 04:40:12 <mijailr> ???
Apr 23 04:41:28 <dm8tbr> http://www.catb.org/esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
Apr 23 04:42:35 <mijailr> so where i can find good projects for beaglebone? in beagleboard.org/projects almost all are dead..
Apr 23 04:49:53 <dm8tbr> mijailr: well, what are you looking for?
Apr 23 04:54:28 <ds2> dead?!
Apr 23 05:02:48 <mranostay> don't tell me my dream of FreeBSD on a bone is dead?!!?
Apr 23 05:06:42 <mranostay> _av500_: 100W USB? are they on crack? :)
Apr 23 05:10:43 <mijailr> im looking for projects examples for noobs
Apr 23 05:11:03 <mijailr> i am very new with beaglebone and embeded linux
Apr 23 05:16:17 <dm8tbr> then you might want to just use the standard image
Apr 23 05:16:38 <dm8tbr> the cloud9 thing
Apr 23 05:16:43 <dm8tbr> and just tinker with it
Apr 23 05:22:22 <_av500_> if you tinker it they will come
Apr 23 05:23:02 <crashovrd> thats what she said!
Apr 23 05:23:22 * crashovrd receives angry twitters
Apr 23 05:23:25 <_av500_> mijailr: have a look at beagleboard's G+ stream, there are many articles linked
Apr 23 05:24:06 <mijailr> av500: thanks!
Apr 23 06:02:53 * tasslehoff curses musb
Apr 23 06:06:03 <lepton_> hello?
Apr 23 06:08:04 <mranostay> hello!!!!
Apr 23 06:09:40 <Shadyman> DENIED
Apr 23 06:10:13 <ka6sox-farfarawa> lets hope the Jesus Stick works.
Apr 23 06:10:15 <dm8tbr> ehlo
Apr 23 07:20:47 <bpetersen> How do I call an include file in a different directory when I am working with Assembly code. ( I am currently using PRU to control BeagleBone GPIO)
Apr 23 07:21:45 <woglinde> -I
Apr 23 07:22:07 <bpetersen> I am kinda new to this, is the -I within the Makefile?
Apr 23 07:23:41 <woglinde> -I is for the compiler
Apr 23 07:23:47 <woglinde> man gcc
Apr 23 07:24:12 <woglinde> and yes you can set headersearchpaths in Makefiles
Apr 23 07:24:34 <bpetersen> Well in my Makefile I have : [4] INCDIR_APP_LOADER?=../../app_loader/include
Apr 23 07:24:46 <bpetersen> [7] CFLAGS+= -Wall -I$(INCDIR_APP_LOADER) -D__DEBUG -O2 -mtune=cortex-a8 -march=armv7-a
Apr 23 07:24:58 <bpetersen> [21] $(CROSS_COMPILE)gcc -std=gnu99 $(CFLAGS) -c -o $@ $<
Apr 23 07:25:20 <bpetersen> And I have placed the .hp files within the /app_loader/include directory
Apr 23 07:40:15 <av500> bpetersen: pastebin
Apr 23 07:41:42 <schuschu_> is there any way to buy/preorder a beagleboard black right now?
Apr 23 07:41:52 <av500> sure
Apr 23 07:42:07 * av500 loves "finish!!!" http://pastebin.com/PJdmgcuM
Apr 23 07:42:16 <schuschu_> where?
Apr 23 07:44:02 <av500> http://www.element14.com/community/community/knode/dev_platforms_kits/element14_dev_kits/next-gen_beaglebone?CMP=KNC-EU-Knode-NGBeagleB
Apr 23 07:44:08 <av500> first link when you google
Apr 23 07:44:15 <av500> other distris might have them too
Apr 23 07:44:23 <av500> or will have them
Apr 23 07:44:28 <Shadyman> see also: makershed.com adafruit.com
Apr 23 07:45:03 <schuschu_> Not the original, the new black version this http://beagleboard.org/Products/BeagleBone+Black has no buy link ^^
Apr 23 07:45:23 <Shadyman> ...
Apr 23 07:45:28 <schuschu_> TIs order now links to the same page and the estore has none either
Apr 23 07:45:29 <Shadyman> see also: makershed.com adafruit.com
Apr 23 07:45:57 <Shadyman> http://www.makershed.com/BeagleBoard_BeagleBone_Black_p/mkcce3.htm
Apr 23 07:47:18 <Shadyman> http://www.adafruit.com/products/1278
Apr 23 07:48:48 <av500> well yes, its all ramping up right now
Apr 23 07:48:58 <av500> its not like they preproduced 10million like apple does
Apr 23 07:49:04 <Shadyman> ^
Apr 23 07:51:40 <Shadyman> g'nite folks
Apr 23 07:51:48 <schuschu_> thanks guys, order placed ^^
Apr 23 07:52:06 <keesj> I am just waiting for somebody to send me one but nobody asked for my address yet
Apr 23 08:04:24 <av500> keesj: you are doin' something wrong then
Apr 23 08:11:14 <keesj> I should ask?
Apr 23 08:15:00 <Rotti> hi!
Apr 23 08:17:30 <woglinde> hi rotti
Apr 23 08:17:32 <Beaglemax> mm i'm not sure with my quest but well
Apr 23 08:17:39 <Beaglemax> it's possible run xbmc
Apr 23 08:17:43 <Beaglemax> on it?
Apr 23 08:17:57 <woglinde> google is not your friend
Apr 23 08:18:06 <Beaglemax> ya is not my friend
Apr 23 08:18:07 <Beaglemax> xD
Apr 23 08:18:49 <pankaj> @jkridner: are you ther??
Apr 23 08:20:02 <pankaj> @jkridner: I want to discuss something about GSOC 2013. It would be great if we could talk sometime.
Apr 23 08:21:17 <av500> he's asleep
Apr 23 08:21:29 <av500> BeagleBot: XBMC yes, but only with SW codecs
Apr 23 08:21:32 <av500> so no full HD
Apr 23 08:21:43 <av500> arf
Apr 23 08:21:46 <av500> idiot
Apr 23 08:21:57 <av500> ha, superdad
Apr 23 08:22:06 <keesj> I need to work on my economic value
Apr 23 08:22:07 <pankaj> who...jkridner???
Apr 23 08:22:19 <av500> jkridner: yes, he is sleeping
Apr 23 08:22:29 <pankaj> who r u
Apr 23 08:22:29 <pankaj> ?
Apr 23 08:22:42 <woglinde> pankaj subscribe to beale gsoc ml and discuss there
Apr 23 08:23:25 <woglinde> av500 hm he did not read the list about possible mentors
Apr 23 08:41:36 <panto> moaning
Apr 23 08:42:49 <mrpackethead> morninging
Apr 23 08:43:57 <KotH> WORLD PEACE!
Apr 23 08:44:12 <panto> get outta here hippie
Apr 23 08:44:35 * KotH throws some salad at panto 
Apr 23 08:45:25 <dotc> Anyone out there?
Apr 23 08:45:53 <teralaser> yes
Apr 23 08:47:08 <dotc> Can anyone give me any help with I2C communication on the beaglebone?
Apr 23 08:47:42 <woglinde> hi panto
Apr 23 08:47:44 <teralaser> software?
Apr 23 08:47:48 <finnomenon> good morning
Apr 23 08:47:54 * teralaser is a hardware person
Apr 23 08:48:09 <panto> dotc, what do you want to do?
Apr 23 08:48:23 <dotc> Hello again panto.
Apr 23 08:48:34 <dotc> How would I go about writing a driver?
Apr 23 08:49:00 <dotc> say I want to send/read a byte from the I2C bus
Apr 23 08:49:04 <panto> grab the kernel sources
Apr 23 08:49:28 <panto> and look into the source of a driver similar to what you do
Apr 23 08:49:36 <dotc> I'm very new to Linux, so that's my weakest point. Could you explain that further?
Apr 23 08:49:42 <panto> there's a Documentation/ directory
Apr 23 08:50:17 <panto> lots of hits on google
Apr 23 08:50:19 <panto> first one: http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/7136
Apr 23 08:50:42 <dotc> Thanks. Ill take some time to look into this.
Apr 23 08:51:12 <panto> Documentation/i2c/writting-clients is pretty decent too
Apr 23 08:51:57 <panto> all in all, if you understand i2c it shouldn't take you long
Apr 23 08:53:17 <dotc> I understand I2C well. SPI is my domain, but I dont get how I can access it from the software side. I could write and read bytes by bit-banging with a GPIO, but that's so much less efficient.
Apr 23 08:54:29 <dotc> I'm used to programming small 8-bit microcontrollers. I've never programmed an actual OS to do anything.
Apr 23 08:54:44 <dotc> I hope that gives you an idea as to my perspective
Apr 23 08:55:04 <panto> dotc, if you understand the concepts it should be no biggie
Apr 23 08:55:31 <panto> it might even be easier, since you don't have to write the bus access code yourself
Apr 23 08:55:56 <panto> you get lots of freebies if you learn the linux way of doing things
Apr 23 08:56:45 <dotc> Sounds like it. That's why I'm trying to learn Linux. I'm so used to going from the bottom up, and making my own codes for everything from the bit-level up
Apr 23 08:57:22 <panto> dotc, believe it or not, that the way most Linux people work too
Apr 23 08:57:30 <dotc> but then it leaves me not knowing how to make my own code that acesses someone elses I2C code
Apr 23 08:57:59 <panto> dotc, don't let complexity overwhelm you
Apr 23 08:58:21 <panto> work on your corner, get it working, and then spread out to other things you might care about
Apr 23 08:59:33 <dotc> Okay, so I see how I can acess the I2C driver in linux, but how does that translate down to a specific pin on the board?
Apr 23 09:00:22 <panto> the i2c controllers have muxing options getting to the pinout
Apr 23 09:00:40 <panto> are you on a bone? if so, this is done via the device tree
Apr 23 09:01:17 <dotc> Yes, i'm using a bone.
Apr 23 09:01:33 <dotc> I am somewhat familliar with muxing, as even 8-bit uCs use it
Apr 23 09:06:22 <panto> right
Apr 23 09:09:13 <dotc> What is a "struct (device)"? I see that mentioned a lot.
Apr 23 09:09:41 <woglinde> ????
Apr 23 09:10:22 <woglinde> you do not know what a struct is?
Apr 23 09:10:42 <dotc> I probably would by a different name
Apr 23 09:10:49 <woglinde> ???????
Apr 23 09:10:56 <KotH> dotc: record
Apr 23 09:10:58 <woglinde> did you ever programmed in c?
Apr 23 09:11:02 <KotH> dotc: in wirth-lingo
Apr 23 09:11:22 <dotc> I'm self-taught.
Apr 23 09:11:40 <woglinde> o.O
Apr 23 09:11:56 <dotc> I'm more of a hardware person haha
Apr 23 09:13:24 <av500> then change your nick to dothw
Apr 23 09:13:33 <av500> or dotbasic
Apr 23 09:13:40 <woglinde> dotpascal
Apr 23 09:13:53 <dotc> DotC stands for Dawn Of The Computer
Apr 23 09:13:58 <KotH> ah..
Apr 23 09:14:01 <woglinde> o.O
Apr 23 09:14:05 <KotH> that's why your nick rings a bell
Apr 23 09:14:16 <KotH> weren't you in #mplayer or #ffmpeg a couple of years ago?
Apr 23 09:14:25 <dotc> nope.
Apr 23 09:14:41 <dotc> Dawn of the Computer is my artist name.
Apr 23 09:14:48 <dotc> I produce electronic music on the side
Apr 23 09:14:50 <KotH> dotc: if you havent read it already, buy a copy of k&r and read it
Apr 23 09:14:57 <panto> KotH, +1
Apr 23 09:15:00 <dotc> okay
Apr 23 09:15:10 <panto> dotc, try not to be distracted by fancy book covers
Apr 23 09:15:26 <panto> read K&R, it's small and is timeless
Apr 23 09:15:37 <dotc> Where  can I find it?
Apr 23 09:15:37 <mrpackethead> Jsut ordered some Black
Apr 23 09:15:53 <panto> http://www.amazon.com/Programming-Language-2nd-Brian-Kernighan/dp/0131103628
Apr 23 09:16:24 <dotc> Thank you.
Apr 23 09:16:25 <panto> if you're a struggling artist you can, ahem, 'find' it as an ebook
Apr 23 09:16:31 <panto> but nothing beat having a paper copy
Apr 23 09:16:49 <dotc> I'm a struggling artist, but not a broke artist!
Apr 23 09:17:00 <mrpackethead> except a legal ebook copy
Apr 23 09:17:40 <panto> it's one of those books that you must have if you're serious about learning to code
Apr 23 09:17:51 <panto> 20 years old, and still relevant
Apr 23 09:18:04 <mrpackethead> C for dummies
Apr 23 09:18:05 <mrpackethead> ?
Apr 23 09:18:52 <dotc> I'm a freshman in college. Formal eductaion on C is not availible to me. Ive been learning on my own since middleschool
Apr 23 09:19:07 <mrpackethead> change school
Apr 23 09:19:37 <dotc> They hardly even teach about hardware here.
Apr 23 09:19:57 <dotc> Ive run into seniors who dont even have a clue what a MOSFET is, or what an op-amp does
Apr 23 09:20:41 <dotc> Wait, was anyone going to give me an idea of what struct means?
Apr 23 09:21:26 <panto> you know what a variable is?
Apr 23 09:21:36 <panto> imagine grouping them together
Apr 23 09:21:43 <dotc> so like an array?
Apr 23 09:22:19 <dotc> or is it more like a class
Apr 23 09:22:32 <panto> a class is a struct with methods
Apr 23 09:22:41 <dotc> okay
Apr 23 09:22:58 <panto> in fact in C++ you can replace class with struct, and it will mostly work the same
Apr 23 09:23:10 <panto> the only thing it changes is the default visibility of members
Apr 23 09:23:39 <panto> read the book
Apr 23 09:23:44 <dotc> will do
Apr 23 09:23:47 <panto> expect to be struggling at first
Apr 23 09:23:48 <dotc> but that might take a while
Apr 23 09:24:20 <dotc> the relation to a class makes sense
Apr 23 09:24:21 <panto> you're young, you have the whole life in front of you :)
Apr 23 09:24:33 <dotc> I expect to learn a lot over my life.
Apr 23 09:25:04 <dotc> I'm working my way to aircraft engineering.
Apr 23 09:25:49 <dotc> I've got a half-built ultralight in my garage. Ive been told I'm crazy for trying to make one so many times.
Apr 23 09:26:24 <panto> sanity is overrated
Apr 23 09:26:27 <dotc> Thank you so much for your help eveyone. I have to go. Ill check out that book for sure, pant.
Apr 23 09:26:35 <dotc> *panto
Apr 23 09:26:46 <panto> go forth young man and multiply...
Apr 23 09:26:53 * panto gives dotc his blessing...
Apr 23 09:27:54 * panto gets out of the robes and goes out to buy groceries 
Apr 23 09:28:09 * panto gets back in to put on pants
Apr 23 09:36:42 <felipebalbi> panto: +1 on K&R. Probably the only book which will teach you peculiarities of pointers vs arrays
Apr 23 09:36:54 <felipebalbi> panto: and pointers of pointers vs array of pointers
Apr 23 09:38:50 <BeagleGithub> [kernel] koenkooi pushed 2 new commits to 3.8: http://git.io/_e-AJw
Apr 23 09:38:50 <BeagleGithub> kernel/3.8 1f960b0 Koen Kooi: 3.8: add resetctrl framework...
Apr 23 09:38:50 <BeagleGithub> kernel/3.8 656a99b Koen Kooi: 3.8: save 0.3s off boottime by disabling kprobes...
Apr 23 09:39:23 <crashovrd> thats creepy
Apr 23 09:58:56 <jackmitchell> I gots me a Mozilla phone coming
Apr 23 09:59:24 <jackmitchell> in OMG ORANGE
Apr 23 09:59:41 <woglinde> jackmitchell which one?
Apr 23 09:59:47 <jackmitchell> Keon
Apr 23 10:00:02 <jackmitchell> the larger one is nicer specs, but it's just too big
Apr 23 10:19:14 <Naphatul> how hard is it to load a distro of my choice on the newest board?
Apr 23 10:33:47 <mrpackethead> Naphatul: you'd have to get one first
Apr 23 10:33:48 <mrpackethead> :-0)
Apr 23 10:34:15 <Naphatul> were the last ones sold out fast/
Apr 23 11:07:55 * wmat looks for BBB buy link on beagleboard.org
Apr 23 11:10:47 <wmat> I guess the west coasters haven't updated the site yet
Apr 23 11:18:53 <wmat> *sigh*, BBB available on Newark's US site, but not the Canadian
Apr 23 11:21:21 <KotH> panto, felipebalbi: actually, i dont think that k&r is a good book on programming. it's way to short and hardly mentiones any booby traps in the language. the "c++ primer plus" from prata is better for learning all those stuff, even for c. but k&r is small enough that with some prior programming knowledge you can learn c very quickly
Apr 23 11:21:49 <mru> just read the damn spec
Apr 23 11:21:54 <panto> k&r is the bible
Apr 23 11:21:58 <panto> enough said
Apr 23 11:22:10 <mru> and about as current as the bible
Apr 23 11:22:10 <wmat> KotH: careful, the Gods may strike you down for such blasphemy ;)
Apr 23 11:22:32 <panto> mru, where is it outdated?
Apr 23 11:22:46 * KotH does not fear no heathan gods ;)
Apr 23 11:23:04 <panto> it doesn't deal with libraries, true, but the language hardly changed
Apr 23 11:23:11 <wmat> panto: it excludes anything added to the spec since it's publication date
Apr 23 11:23:13 <mru> panto: is there a c99 version of it?
Apr 23 11:23:25 <KotH> panto: the last version of k&r is of c89 iirc
Apr 23 11:23:34 <mru> that's what I thought too
Apr 23 11:23:40 <panto> no, but it's last version is 89
Apr 23 11:24:03 <mru> c99 has _lots_ of little changes compared to c89
Apr 23 11:24:03 <panto> if you read it, how hard would it be to find out what's changed for c99?
Apr 23 11:24:22 <KotH> hard
Apr 23 11:24:29 <KotH> you'd have to read the c99 std
Apr 23 11:24:36 <KotH> and this is non-trivial for anyone knew to c
Apr 23 11:24:37 <mru> which is actually not hard at all
Apr 23 11:24:52 <wmat> i've seen lists around that attempt to list the changes
Apr 23 11:25:09 <mru> a full list would be about as long as the spec itself
Apr 23 11:25:10 <KotH> mru: reading not, but understanding which parts are relevant and which not is not easy if you have not a good grasp of c
Apr 23 11:25:11 <panto> I stand by my premise, read k&r, it is useful
Apr 23 11:25:32 <panto> it is a bit out-of-date, but it stands as invaluable
Apr 23 11:25:40 <mru> c99 tightens up various corner cases
Apr 23 11:25:43 <KotH> panto: that's true. if you want only to read one book on c, k&r isnt a bad choice. but it's not the best one
Apr 23 11:25:50 <wmat> there's this rant: http://c.learncodethehardway.org/book/krcritique.html
Apr 23 11:26:59 <panto> wmat, I'd wager that when his book is 20 years old and still relevant he'll have the right to whine
Apr 23 11:27:08 <panto> until then...
Apr 23 11:27:12 <wmat> good point
Apr 23 11:27:24 <mru> k&r is fine for what it covers
Apr 23 11:27:28 <wmat> at least he has a book :/
Apr 23 11:27:33 <mru> but since it can't cover things added since its publication...
Apr 23 11:27:42 <mru> but books are overrated
Apr 23 11:27:42 <panto> we have no idea about the rate of change between those 20 years
Apr 23 11:28:11 <panto> in literary terms, it's like the harry poter's author critiquing dante
Apr 23 11:28:20 <mru> hehe
Apr 23 11:29:15 <KotH> panto: i critizized goethe :)
Apr 23 11:29:24 <crashovrd> dont forget there is more to programming that the language reference. just as important are coding practices!
Apr 23 11:29:32 <crashovrd> so there's another book
Apr 23 11:29:39 <KotH> crashovrd: that's another point where k&r falls short
Apr 23 11:30:00 <crashovrd> and then you also need a good reference on programming patterns
Apr 23 11:30:12 <KotH> not really
Apr 23 11:30:18 <crashovrd> conclusion: outsource it!
Apr 23 11:30:20 <crashovrd> :)
Apr 23 11:30:40 <mru> crashovrd: you can't acquire good coding practices by merely reading a book
Apr 23 11:30:54 <panto> programming is not science, it's not art, it's not even book-keeping
Apr 23 11:30:55 <KotH> when people get to that point, i usally tell them to get a copy of "Code Reading" by spinelli and read lots of code others have written
Apr 23 11:30:59 <crashovrd> programming patterns are like manners! you can get by without them. but u come off quite vulgar
Apr 23 11:31:01 <panto> it's all of those, and something else
Apr 23 11:31:06 <wmat> crashovrd: outsourcing just delays having to write it yourself
Apr 23 11:31:09 <KotH> panto: programming is a craft
Apr 23 11:31:25 <mru> crashovrd: what are these "patterns" of which you speak?
Apr 23 11:31:48 <wmat> I code my C in plaid
Apr 23 11:32:02 <mru> some of the worst code I've ever seen was the result of idiots shoehorning all problems into some predefined "pattern"
Apr 23 11:32:05 <KotH> mru: something relevant for java programmers... c programmers know those thing by heart or have aquired them by reading code
Apr 23 11:32:10 <wmat> mostly the Royal Stewart tartan
Apr 23 11:32:22 <mru> the most prevalent is of course the spaghetti pattern
Apr 23 11:32:27 <KotH> lol
Apr 23 11:32:40 <panto> mru, there's something worse
Apr 23 11:32:54 <panto> the infinite classes problem, all alike, but somewhat different
Apr 23 11:33:02 <mru> it's the programming equievalent of the central limit theorem
Apr 23 11:33:19 <panto> at least I can pull the thread of a spaghetti program and figure out what it does
Apr 23 11:33:20 <mru> if sufficiently many patterns are combined, the result is spaghetti
Apr 23 11:34:05 <mru> panto: you mean like the time I found about 5 different java classes implementing a scrolling text pane?
Apr 23 11:34:09 <mru> 3 of them unused
Apr 23 11:34:09 <KotH> panto: we have here some code, that is nearly impossible to untangle
Apr 23 11:34:29 <panto> right
Apr 23 11:34:44 <panto> some of the worse I've seen was similar but with corba added on top
Apr 23 11:35:00 <mru> everything gets worse with corba
Apr 23 11:35:16 <crashovrd> embedded still has lots of wild west frontier coders
Apr 23 11:35:17 <KotH> panto: a state machine, implented using function pointers, which are set at inconsistent places, and most work is done in a sub-sub-sub state machine which is worked on in the state called "IDLE" :)
Apr 23 11:35:19 <panto> 1 week to figure out _where_ the code crapped out
Apr 23 11:35:49 <KotH> crashovrd: it's not just embedded
Apr 23 11:35:57 <KotH> crashovrd: java is worse in my experience
Apr 23 11:35:57 <crashovrd> probably much to do with the toolsets available and difficulty implmenting elegance
Apr 23 11:36:04 <crashovrd> yeah! i said elegance
Apr 23 11:36:14 <panto> crashovrd, you are under the impression that the civilized urban coders are better?
Apr 23 11:36:35 <crashovrd> there is a time and place for everything
Apr 23 11:36:39 <KotH> crashovrd: but with java you have more "patterns" that people learn by heart (instead of why and when to use them) and apply the same 10-20 patterns which makes it easier to read
Apr 23 11:36:51 <crashovrd> i prefer the penthouse to the saloons and brothels
Apr 23 11:36:58 <woglinde> koth java is same depends on the coder
Apr 23 11:37:00 <KotH> crashovrd: while c has many ways you can shoot your own foot and people tend to use them all
Apr 23 11:37:11 <KotH> woglinde: i havent said that there are no good java programmers
Apr 23 11:37:20 <panto> there's something to be said about form and terseness
Apr 23 11:37:25 <woglinde> I meant code quality and elegance
Apr 23 11:37:28 * mru prefers to program with a six-shooter
Apr 23 11:37:29 <KotH> woglinde: just that the percentage is lower than with c :)
Apr 23 11:37:33 <crashovrd> in the end what counts is that you solve the problem you set out to
Apr 23 11:37:49 <woglinde> crashovrd hm hm
Apr 23 11:37:59 <woglinde> if it is not maintable
Apr 23 11:38:06 <KotH> yeah..
Apr 23 11:38:06 <woglinde> args
Apr 23 11:38:09 <woglinde> maintainable
Apr 23 11:38:10 <mru> http://xkcd.com/763/
Apr 23 11:38:11 <woglinde> its lost
Apr 23 11:38:23 <crashovrd> if its not maintainable, then make sure you find a new job so its someone elses problem!
Apr 23 11:38:52 <KotH> like one customer who came to us for a "small fix" in a c code for a PIC18, they were going to use in a medical app... our recomendation was to rewrite it from scratch, because there was no way this would pass medical certification
Apr 23 11:39:12 <mru> crashovrd: that reminds me of the overlaid linked lists I left behind at a previous job...
Apr 23 11:39:19 <woglinde> koth *g*
Apr 23 11:39:30 <woglinde> mru haha
Apr 23 11:39:46 <panto> mru, that sounds... evil
Apr 23 11:39:53 <mru> it was all shipped out to india shortly after
Apr 23 11:40:09 <mru> I felt a bit sorry for the poor guy who had to document it
Apr 23 11:40:29 <mru> did I mention the macros?
Apr 23 11:40:59 <mru> seriously though, it wasn't imo all that bad
Apr 23 11:41:02 <panto> did it use the trick of storing two pointers in the single pointer location?
Apr 23 11:41:06 <panto> sounds like it
Apr 23 11:41:11 <mru> no, it didn't do that
Apr 23 11:41:24 <panto> define overlaid then
Apr 23 11:41:40 <mru> same data elements belonging to multiple lists
Apr 23 11:42:16 <panto> doesn't seem too weird to me
Apr 23 11:42:28 <panto> many times you need to access the same data differently
Apr 23 11:42:39 <mru> of course, but you're mostly sensible
Apr 23 11:43:11 * panto shrugs 
Apr 23 11:43:21 <KotH> mru: sensible? a greek? think again!
Apr 23 11:43:22 <panto> I've seen evil-er
Apr 23 11:45:17 * KotH should learn more c preprocessor commands and how to abuse them
Apr 23 11:45:18 <panto> btw, what's the worst fscked up codebase you've seen?
Apr 23 11:45:34 <mru> probably adobe flashlite
Apr 23 11:45:47 <KotH> panto: the code i mentioned above
Apr 23 11:46:24 <panto> worst was code written in C, but using #define's for all pascal keywords
Apr 23 11:46:26 <KotH> panto: not only was it totally entangled spaghetti code, dozens of bugs in every function... no, even all comments were in french!
Apr 23 11:46:30 <panto> i.e. #define begin {
Apr 23 11:46:46 * KotH has seen such code as well
Apr 23 11:46:48 <mru> typedef void Void;
Apr 23 11:46:52 <KotH> but that doesnt bother me much
Apr 23 11:47:02 * KotH has started with pascal, back in the days of old
Apr 23 11:47:11 <KotH> so, i'm used to withian languages
Apr 23 11:47:11 <crashovrd> oh man, i used a Sony SDK and all the code comments were in Japanese
Apr 23 11:47:14 <panto> it should, cause semantics in pascal are different than C
Apr 23 11:47:20 <KotH> mru: #define TRUE 0
Apr 23 11:47:23 <KotH> mru: #define FALSE 1
Apr 23 11:47:24 <mru> crashovrd: good, then they didn't mislead you
Apr 23 11:47:31 <KotH> mru: yes, i've seen that many times
Apr 23 11:47:32 <panto> expressions don't short-circuit in pascal, they do in C
Apr 23 11:47:38 <mru> KotH: that would break rather quickly
Apr 23 11:47:44 <mru> better to #define TRUE 2
Apr 23 11:47:46 <panto> gee, memories got me hungry
Apr 23 11:47:48 <mru> or 42
Apr 23 11:47:49 <panto> lunch time
Apr 23 11:48:01 <panto> #define FALSE 1
Apr 23 11:48:04 <panto> #define TRUE 0
Apr 23 11:48:05 <crashovrd> so it started me wondering why they dont use Japanese for class/method names
Apr 23 11:48:15 <mru> panto: again, that would break everything very quickly
Apr 23 11:48:20 <KotH> mru: yes, it's horribly fragile... but they usually do if(blah == TRUE) and such
Apr 23 11:48:22 <mru> it's not subtle enough
Apr 23 11:48:24 <crashovrd> on screen it looked to me like that language they use in the Predator movies
Apr 23 11:48:48 <mru> KotH: what, you've _seen_ such code?
Apr 23 11:48:56 <KotH> yes
Apr 23 11:48:58 <KotH> more than once
Apr 23 11:49:00 <mru> oh dear
Apr 23 11:49:15 <mru> I don't think I want to work for your company...
Apr 23 11:49:15 <KotH> and that wasnt the worst i've seen
Apr 23 11:49:29 <KotH> our companies code looks better
Apr 23 11:49:32 <KotH> it's mostly sane
Apr 23 11:49:40 <woglinde> haha
Apr 23 11:49:43 <KotH> but we get a lot of customers who "just want a small fix"
Apr 23 11:50:09 <KotH> or have been rejected by the certification body and want their code cleaned up
Apr 23 11:50:58 <KotH> our usual approach to such customers is to tell them their code cannot be salvaged and it has to be rewritten from scratch
Apr 23 11:51:18 <KotH> and then we first start by writing a spec what the code is supposed to do :)
Apr 23 11:52:23 <mru> I once tried to document what some code actually did
Apr 23 11:53:10 <mru> all it was meant to do was display a png image
Apr 23 11:53:22 <mru> but sometimes the colours would get messed up in interesting ways
Apr 23 11:53:32 <mru> and the idiot customer relied on that behaviour
Apr 23 11:53:58 <KotH> lol
Apr 23 11:54:11 <mru> the worst part, it was stateful
Apr 23 11:54:21 <mru> the rendering of a specific image could depend on what had been rendered prior
Apr 23 11:54:29 <mru> at least it was strictly causal
Apr 23 11:55:17 <KotH> in the previous company i worked, i got a ring buffer that lost bytes once in a while. when i decided to replace it with something sane (it had more bugs than lines of code), the whole app didnt work anymore. It took me a while that the rest of the code (unintentionally) relied on the ringbuffer to lose bytes
Apr 23 11:58:35 <ynezz> it's quite common to get such code once you use debugger...
Apr 23 12:03:34 <panto> back
Apr 23 12:03:44 <woglinde> re panto
Apr 23 12:03:49 <panto> thx
Apr 23 12:03:55 <av500> mahlzeit
Apr 23 12:03:57 <woglinde> time for salad
Apr 23 12:03:59 <woglinde> till later
Apr 23 12:04:47 <ynezz> s/salad/coffee/
Apr 23 12:04:53 <av500> +1
Apr 23 12:05:01 <woglinde> no nitpicking
Apr 23 12:05:09 <av500> says you
Apr 23 12:08:09 <av500> mru: http://pastebin.com/sfF1tcYR
Apr 23 12:08:54 <mru> wtf is that?
Apr 23 12:08:59 <av500> nice eh
Apr 23 12:09:03 <av500> part of a driver makefile
Apr 23 12:09:19 <mru> it's lunacies like that which give makefiles a bad name
Apr 23 12:09:24 <av500> I guess it gets passed from dev to dev and each one ads his own /home/$name line
Apr 23 12:09:30 <av500> adds*
Apr 23 12:09:30 <panto> av500, seems like DSL vendor's SDK
Apr 23 12:09:41 <av500> some wifi driver
Apr 23 12:10:39 <panto> the person who added the umpteen entry should've muttered all kind of things when he was adding his entry
Apr 23 12:10:40 <av500> \o/ it even has DM6446
Apr 23 12:11:02 <panto> ikanos, infineon, ixp
Apr 23 12:11:22 <panto> linux 2.4 :)
Apr 23 12:11:35 <av500> Carter, Charles, John, Fonchi, B.Hushan, qzhliao, Peter,
Apr 23 12:11:57 <panto> lol
Apr 23 12:13:00 <ogra_> wow, KODAK_DC is cool
Apr 23 12:13:06 <av500> yeah
Apr 23 12:14:09 <av500> in fact, its public: http://service.i-onik.de/a10_source_1.5/lichee/linux-3.0/drivers/net/wireless/rtxx7x/Makefile
Apr 23 12:14:27 <mru> oink
Apr 23 12:14:28 <av500> the best is, its an in-kernel out-of-kernel module
Apr 23 12:14:43 <av500> it sits in drivers/net/wireless, but build like an out of tree
Apr 23 12:14:49 <av500> builds*
Apr 23 12:17:37 <KotH> av500: i wouldnt be so sure whether it builds
Apr 23 12:17:52 <ogra_> heh
Apr 23 12:20:09 <mru> I'd assume it doesn't build
Apr 23 12:21:07 <av500> KotH: it does build
Apr 23 12:21:17 <mru> then it doesn't work
Apr 23 12:21:31 <av500> its a wifi driver, of course it does not worl
Apr 23 12:21:33 <av500> work
Apr 23 12:22:02 <mru> the intel ones seem to
Apr 23 12:22:29 <mru> and the atheros running my ap
Apr 23 12:23:21 <KotH> glitch in the matrix
Apr 23 12:23:43 <mru> but those are proper in-kernel drivers
Apr 23 12:25:14 <Echidna> hi
Apr 23 12:25:20 <KotH> grüezi
Apr 23 12:25:39 <Echidna> i cant find anything on the availability of the beaglebone black on the website
Apr 23 12:25:51 <KotH> soon
Apr 23 12:26:01 <Echidna> are they sold directly?
Apr 23 12:26:05 <KotH> no
Apr 23 12:26:06 <Echidna> or via local retailers
Apr 23 12:26:10 <KotH> no
Apr 23 12:26:27 <KotH> try mouser, farnell, digikey and all the other usual suspects
Apr 23 12:26:32 <Echidna> ok
Apr 23 12:26:35 <Echidna> anything in germany?
Apr 23 12:26:49 <KotH> mouser, farnell, digikey and all the other usuall suspects
Apr 23 12:26:59 <Echidna> well farnell is UK, isnt it
Apr 23 12:27:18 <KotH> why do you want a local retailer and pay three times the price?
Apr 23 12:27:33 <KotH> at least mouser and farnell offer you next day delivery
Apr 23 12:27:34 <av500> farnell sells in germany
Apr 23 12:27:38 <av500> as do digikey
Apr 23 12:27:46 <jackmitchell> farnell might be called element14 in Ger
Apr 23 12:28:28 <Echidna> ok i'll check it out, thats where i ordered my first raspi
Apr 23 12:28:32 <Echidna> it was from the UK though
Apr 23 12:28:36 <woglinde> re
Apr 23 12:29:24 <woglinde> watterod?
Apr 23 12:30:21 <KotH> jackmitchell: isnt it the otherway round?
Apr 23 12:30:59 <ogra_> element14 might be called farnell in the UK ?
Apr 23 12:31:24 <Echidna> dunno, i think it's called both anywhere
Apr 23 12:31:32 <Echidna> at least the german site says "Farnell element14"
Apr 23 12:31:40 <Echidna> and so did the box i got from the UK back in the day
Apr 23 12:31:52 <jackmitchell> ogra_: I don't know, I'm confuesed
Apr 23 12:32:11 <koen> element14 is the mothership
Apr 23 12:32:14 <Echidna> i found the black, €43.20
Apr 23 12:32:21 <jackmitchell> net-snmp has obliterated anything I ever thought was right in the world
Apr 23 12:33:26 <Echidna> how's the Java situation on beaglebones? i read you can use the oracle jdk. is it the same soft abi jdk you use for raspi?
Apr 23 12:34:42 * KotH slowly backs away from Echidna 
Apr 23 12:34:50 <av500> woglinde: your customer
Apr 23 12:34:53 <av500> woglinde: ^^^
Apr 23 12:35:01 <av500> Echidna: java works on bone, use openjdk
Apr 23 12:35:05 <woglinde> he wants java8 preview
Apr 23 12:35:57 <ogra_> so use openjdk, a looking glass and a time tunnel :)
Apr 23 12:36:01 <mru> oh, a preview is easy:
Apr 23 12:36:05 <mru> NullPointerException
Apr 23 12:36:10 <mru> OutOfMemoryException
Apr 23 12:36:14 <woglinde> me wonders why he wanzts jdk
Apr 23 12:36:18 <woglinde> instead of jre
Apr 23 12:36:33 <KotH> woglinde: apropos...
Apr 23 12:36:51 <woglinde> koth yes?
Apr 23 12:37:31 <KotH> woglinde: there is a java app i'd like to use from our uni. for some reason it doesnt work with openjdk-7. the guys who wrote it say "it doesnt work with openjdk on linux, use the java version from oracle"
Apr 23 12:38:04 <KotH> woglinde: "does not work" as in, doesn't start up at all (no other errors from the browser, where it is started from)
Apr 23 12:38:06 <mru> java: write once, debug everywhere
Apr 23 12:38:10 <KotH> woglinde: any idea what that could be?
Apr 23 12:38:20 <woglinde>  browser?
Apr 23 12:38:23 <KotH> (yes, i know, doesnt work is not an error description)
Apr 23 12:38:26 <KotH> firefox
Apr 23 12:38:29 <woglinde> do you have a link?
Apr 23 12:39:05 <tan__> hello
Apr 23 12:39:12 <KotH> gimme a sec to hunt it down
Apr 23 12:39:40 * letothe2nd silently sneaks in and waits for the rush of "can i haz BBBlack right now" lemmings
Apr 23 12:39:55 <tdh2002> tdh2002 hello
Apr 23 12:40:09 <woglinde> lol
Apr 23 12:40:23 <woglinde> letothe2nd there was only one and he found it
Apr 23 12:41:37 <letothe2nd> woglinde: guess that'll change once all the hobbyists read heise after work ;)
Apr 23 12:42:10 <woglinde> is the channel mentioned?
Apr 23 12:42:11 <mru> and how is any of this news?
Apr 23 12:42:38 <mru> the thing was being waved around in public at elc in february
Apr 23 12:42:48 <av500> elc != public
Apr 23 12:42:57 <letothe2nd> heise == public.
Apr 23 12:43:07 <mdp> are we done with the color jokes now?
Apr 23 12:43:14 <mdp> and zippers?
Apr 23 12:43:23 <mru> is it fully unzipped?
Apr 23 12:43:49 <av500> we can lharc it
Apr 23 12:43:52 <letothe2nd> mdp: NEVAR!
Apr 23 12:44:22 <Echidna> av500: isnt openjdk half as fast?
Apr 23 12:44:30 <mdp> I still haven't gotten a real one..just a broken A4
Apr 23 12:44:36 <av500> +1
Apr 23 12:44:52 <av500> Echidna: yes, but we dont know which half
Apr 23 12:44:54 <woglinde> echidna make some benchmark tests and tell us
Apr 23 12:45:08 <mru> av500: :)
Apr 23 12:45:46 <CareBear\> arj!
Apr 23 12:45:51 <Echidna> at least on the raspi the openjdk performance was subpar
Apr 23 12:46:04 <mru> _everything_ is subpar on the rpi
Apr 23 12:46:13 <mru> that's its purpose
Apr 23 12:46:15 <Echidna> tru.dat
Apr 23 12:46:38 <woglinde> thats why he needs bone
Apr 23 12:46:39 <Echidna> well with maximum oc its an okay htpc
Apr 23 12:46:55 <CareBear\> it's brilliant
Apr 23 12:46:59 <CareBear\> truly brilliant
Apr 23 12:47:06 <Echidna> the bone?
Apr 23 12:47:08 <ssvb> mru: is 1080p video playback also a part of _everything_?
Apr 23 12:47:09 <woglinde> carebear what?
Apr 23 12:47:10 <CareBear\> the rpi
Apr 23 12:47:14 <ogra_> lol
Apr 23 12:47:19 <mru> rpi is a video decoder with linux running on a coprocessor
Apr 23 12:47:40 <mru> ssvb: yes
Apr 23 12:48:04 <CareBear\> bring a crappy ass decade-old cpu board to market with a fruity logo and a name that reminds people of the number one drug in the western world, sugar
Apr 23 12:48:12 <CareBear\> then:
Apr 23 12:48:24 <jacekowski> rotfl
Apr 23 12:48:34 <KotH> woglinde: http://www.tatool.ch/research/trainyourbrain/download.htm
Apr 23 12:48:34 <KotH> woglinde: and correction: i get an exception
Apr 23 12:48:34 <KotH> woglinde: a class not found
Apr 23 12:48:34 <KotH> woglinde: though it probably should work...
Apr 23 12:48:36 <CareBear\> show how it can be *overclocked* in order to actually do something useful!
Apr 23 12:48:36 <jacekowski> for 20% of beagleboard you forgot to add
Apr 23 12:48:38 <CareBear\> instant win!
Apr 23 12:48:39 <KotH> woglinde: at least for other people it does
Apr 23 12:48:48 <ogra_> CareBear\, ++
Apr 23 12:48:57 <jacekowski> you can make a cluster of rpi boards for price of single bb
Apr 23 12:48:58 <Echidna> well yea but w/o it there probably wouldnt be a beagle
Apr 23 12:49:08 <woglinde> hm htm reminds me on dos http sever
Apr 23 12:49:10 <woglinde> haha
Apr 23 12:49:15 <mru> Echidna: without what?
Apr 23 12:49:20 <CareBear\> ogra_ : instant heise hardon
Apr 23 12:49:26 <CareBear\> it's really brilliant
Apr 23 12:49:33 <mru> Echidna: are you aware that the beagle came out in 2008?
Apr 23 12:49:47 <Echidna> rly? nm then
Apr 23 12:49:51 <woglinde> koth by the way you can start it via command line with webstart
Apr 23 12:50:24 <KotH> woglinde: cool! thanks
Apr 23 12:50:25 <mru> beagleboard was the first, and thus far only, real "community" board
Apr 23 12:50:36 <KotH> woglinde: i was looking for that thing for a long time ^^'
Apr 23 12:50:45 <ogra_> and it even drove a  multi TV video wall back then already :)
Apr 23 12:50:51 <woglinde> koth javaws url
Apr 23 12:50:52 <KotH> mru: how do you define a "community board"
Apr 23 12:51:03 <KotH> woglinde: juup, just googled it
Apr 23 12:51:05 <mru> KotH: any way I please
Apr 23 12:51:23 * KotH declares mru to be god
Apr 23 12:51:51 <woglinde> hm whats he using antlr for
Apr 23 12:51:52 <letothe2nd> VETO.
Apr 23 12:52:04 <ogra_> god is using antlr ?
Apr 23 12:52:06 <woglinde> lol and old spring 2.5
Apr 23 12:52:08 <KotH> woglinde: i have no clue...
Apr 23 12:52:16 <mru> elks have antlers
Apr 23 12:52:17 <woglinde> koth tell him to upgrade to spring 3
Apr 23 12:52:23 <KotH> woglinde: the code was probably written by psychology students... so...
Apr 23 12:52:29 <KotH> woglinde: that's all? lol
Apr 23 12:52:35 <woglinde> no
Apr 23 12:52:40 <Echidna> uh breakout boards are called "capes"?
Apr 23 12:52:54 <woglinde> but spring 2.5 is outdated and spring3 makes more things easier
Apr 23 12:52:57 <woglinde> and simpler
Apr 23 12:53:08 <mru> Echidna: is that a problem for you?
Apr 23 12:53:28 <ogra_> might be a rude word in his part of germany ?
Apr 23 12:53:29 <Echidna> mru: yes, that's a deal breaker =P
Apr 23 12:53:43 <KotH> Echidna: they are to suggest that the bone has superpowers
Apr 23 12:53:48 <KotH> Echidna: all superpowers need a cape!
Apr 23 12:53:56 <dm8tbr> moo?
Apr 23 12:54:03 <woglinde> gm dm8tbr
Apr 23 12:54:12 <dm8tbr> hiho woglinde
Apr 23 12:54:15 <KotH> moooin dm8tbr
Apr 23 12:54:27 <woglinde> koth at least he had heard of spring
Apr 23 12:54:31 <dm8tbr> KotH: a merry jihad to you too
Apr 23 12:54:36 <Echidna> KotH: hah
Apr 23 12:54:50 <KotH> woglinde: well...
Apr 23 12:54:54 <Echidna> are there capes for dc motors and servos?
Apr 23 12:55:17 <KotH> woglinde: probably someone with a clue started the project for a semester thesis... someone else extended it... and it ended up the way it is
Apr 23 12:55:23 <woglinde> still waiting for last jar to download
Apr 23 12:55:29 <KotH> o_0
Apr 23 12:55:40 * letothe2nd rather waits for jars to be either full or empty.
Apr 23 12:56:06 * ogra_ drinks his whisky out of them 
Apr 23 12:56:12 * dm8tbr puts whisky in them
Apr 23 12:56:18 * dm8tbr high 5's ogra
Apr 23 12:56:18 <woglinde> you can unzip them
Apr 23 12:56:19 <ogra_> *snap*
Apr 23 12:56:34 <letothe2nd> hrhr
Apr 23 12:56:50 <Echidna> ok i found motor capes, but they cost a fortune
Apr 23 12:56:52 * dm8tbr once visited a bar that served beer in jars
Apr 23 12:57:36 <mru> dm8tbr: did they have whisky in a jar too?
Apr 23 12:57:43 <KotH> Echidna: small volume productions always cost a fortune
Apr 23 12:57:54 <dm8tbr> I didn't ask them, but I guess they'd been happy to sell that too
Apr 23 12:58:01 <KotH> Echidna: but believe me, if you did one yourself, it would cost twice the price
Apr 23 12:58:11 <dm8tbr> economies of scale and all that
Apr 23 12:58:15 <Echidna> KotH: i was comparing to arduino
Apr 23 12:58:35 <Echidna> board + shield were like 35
Apr 23 12:58:36 <Echidna> i think
Apr 23 12:58:52 <mru> the bone is not a goddamn arduino
Apr 23 12:59:59 <woglinde> koth works here
Apr 23 13:00:06 <dm8tbr> one of the smaller house keeping cores in it is probably more powerfull than an arduino
Apr 23 13:00:08 <woglinde> at least I see the login
Apr 23 13:00:10 <KotH> Echidna: compare the specs, not the base board
Apr 23 13:00:13 <KotH> woglinde: 0_0
Apr 23 13:00:19 <KotH> woglinde: why...^^'
Apr 23 13:00:40 <KotH> woglinde: what distro are you using? what java version?
Apr 23 13:00:49 <woglinde> ah okay after login
Apr 23 13:00:53 <woglinde> it crashes
Apr 23 13:00:55 <woglinde> lets see
Apr 23 13:02:38 <Echidna> KotH: i dont see any specs on the motor cape, it seems to be just a breakout board
Apr 23 13:02:50 <Echidna> i wasnt comparing the bone itself to arduino
Apr 23 13:03:17 <KotH> Echidna: there should be specs available.. at least in the form of a schematic
Apr 23 13:08:07 <fiola> Just saw BeagleBone Black announcement article on Slashdot.  Congratulations on new addition to the family! :-)
Apr 23 13:09:14 <mru> for the worst kept secret ever, it's sure making a splash
Apr 23 13:09:40 <Echidna> what are the power requirements of the black? will 5V/1000mA suffice?
Apr 23 13:09:53 <av500> yes
Apr 23 13:09:57 <av500> depends on the capes
Apr 23 13:10:02 <Echidna> ok
Apr 23 13:10:09 <av500> if you add the coffee warmer cape you might need more
Apr 23 13:10:15 <Echidna> heh
Apr 23 13:10:40 <fiola> Coffee warmer cape, now that's an idea ...
Apr 23 13:11:06 <crashovrd> so when is BeagleBone 3 coming out?
Apr 23 13:11:08 * crashovrd runs
Apr 23 13:12:00 <Echidna> are there any cases available for the black yeT?
Apr 23 13:12:08 <av500> cases?
Apr 23 13:12:14 <av500> it comes in a case
Apr 23 13:12:18 <mru> still fits in an altoids tin
Apr 23 13:12:41 <fiola> Does TI have a suitable SoC for a BeagleBone 3, similar to the i.MX6 Duo say?
Apr 23 13:13:03 <mru> what does that question mean?
Apr 23 13:13:12 <av500> fiola: what would you do with it?
Apr 23 13:13:22 <mru> and imx6 is dead, no?
Apr 23 13:13:27 <av500> no
Apr 23 13:13:31 <av500> imx7 is dead
Apr 23 13:13:56 <mru> it's dead like omap4 is dead
Apr 23 13:14:13 <crashovrd> they will probably release BeableBoneBlack-XM next in which they remove the HDMI and Flash again!
Apr 23 13:14:15 * dm8tbr looks at the omap4 product on his desk
Apr 23 13:14:20 <crashovrd> they seem really indecisive
Apr 23 13:14:21 <crashovrd> :P
Apr 23 13:18:17 <fiola> av500: I'm still puzzling over your question, and still can't make head or tail of it.  Were you trying to say that more performance is pointless?  Prolly not, as that would be comical.  So what did you mean?
Apr 23 13:19:12 <crashovrd> BeagleBone 3 will be Allwinner A10 based
Apr 23 13:19:31 * crashovrd enjoys the thought of that in the logs forever searchable by google
Apr 23 13:19:32 <fiola> Allwinner has an A31 or something like that.
Apr 23 13:19:36 <av500> fiola: what would you do with an imx6 class beagle3?
Apr 23 13:19:53 <av500> I am curious
Apr 23 13:20:01 <av500> because there are now tons of these boards
Apr 23 13:20:16 <av500> but somehow the only thing I see people do is ti install XBMC
Apr 23 13:20:28 <av500> and for that indeed the rpi is enough
Apr 23 13:20:49 <av500> the only other use case is distros using them in build clusters
Apr 23 13:20:57 <fiola> av500: Same as I do with my original BeagleBone, but with less laggy development and faster processing so more applications.  Your question is completely pointless.
Apr 23 13:21:36 <mru> fiola: no, it's your question that's completely senseless
Apr 23 13:22:22 <fiola> You'll eat your words as soon as TI comes out with an i.MX6-class next gen board :-)
Apr 23 13:22:43 <BeagleGithub> [kernel] koenkooi pushed 1 new commit to 3.8: http://git.io/m3Nc2w
Apr 23 13:22:43 <BeagleGithub> kernel/3.8 a089b36 Koen Kooi: 3.8: add LCD7 A3 support
Apr 23 13:22:55 <av500> yum
Apr 23 13:22:58 <fiola> Seriously funny to hear you guys say (effectively) "640k ram is enough for anybody".
Apr 23 13:23:06 <av500> nope
Apr 23 13:23:10 <mru> you're asking if ti has a chip suitable for "beaglebone 3" without defining what that board would be
Apr 23 13:23:55 <av500> fiola: the question is, does it make sense for bb.org to invest in a baord with a different CPU
Apr 23 13:26:00 <mdp> dra7xx is suitable, but I expect it to be cost prohibitive
Apr 23 13:26:09 <fiola> If it wants to stay in the game, it has to keep raising the stakes, or it loses mind share even among engineers.  And if you lose mind share then your sales volume drops, and pretty soon you don't have a sustainable product.
Apr 23 13:26:21 <av500> mdp: what is the "nice" name for draxx?
Apr 23 13:26:27 <mdp> J6
Apr 23 13:26:27 <mru> fiola: what specs would you expect from a "beaglebone 3"?
Apr 23 13:26:31 <mdp> "nice"
Apr 23 13:26:32 <av500> mdp: ah right
Apr 23 13:26:50 <av500> fiola: by your logic if I made a beagle with a XEON I would win
Apr 23 13:27:09 <av500> and by your logic nobody would have bought an arduino
Apr 23 13:27:10 <mru> xeagle
Apr 23 13:27:17 <av500> it does not even have 640k
Apr 23 13:27:45 <mdp> av500, if you look at the roadmap, there's nothing cost effective that is in the same league as the allwinner roadmap
Apr 23 13:28:00 <av500> there never was
Apr 23 13:28:03 <mdp> that area has been conceded
Apr 23 13:28:58 <mdp> av500, I just mean they started making expensive media-capable parts after dm3730
Apr 23 13:29:06 <fiola> av500:  There's a big difference:  nobody does development *ON* an Arduino (excepting a few that have embedded interpreters on the board), whereas it is normal to do development *ON* a Beagle class board.  Therefore extra performance is always good.
Apr 23 13:29:26 <mru> developing on a beagle is anything but normal
Apr 23 13:29:27 <av500> people program happily on netbooks
Apr 23 13:29:40 <av500> even though there are i7 notebooks
Apr 23 13:29:44 <mru> "sick and twisted" might be a good start at describing it
Apr 23 13:29:52 <av500> and cheap laptops outsells high end ones
Apr 23 13:29:55 <av500> same for PCs
Apr 23 13:30:18 <thurbad> we prototyped on beagles... not quite the same as developing on them though
Apr 23 13:32:08 <thurbad> still have a beagle based design but we do most of our development off our hardware
Apr 23 13:32:41 <mru> thurbad: I think he's talking about running compilers on the board
Apr 23 13:32:52 <mru> nobody in their right mind does that
Apr 23 13:33:07 <thurbad> I did some native compilation... quickly learned how not to do that :)
Apr 23 13:35:56 <fiola> Somewhere in region of infinite Raspberry Pi users seem perfectly happy to run compilers of many kinds on their board, and it's a lowly ARM11.  Cross-compilation is very much a minority interest.
Apr 23 13:36:15 <mru> they are not in their right minds
Apr 23 13:36:25 <mru> if they were, they would not have bought an rpi in the first place
Apr 23 13:37:41 <thurbad> for instance it took 45 minutes to compile natively last time I did
Apr 23 13:37:51 <mru> compile what?
Apr 23 13:38:00 <thurbad> the same code takes under 4 minutes to compile off board
Apr 23 13:38:11 <av500> mru: *it*
Apr 23 13:38:29 <av500> fiola: if people are happy to compile on the baord, where is the issue then?
Apr 23 13:38:30 <crashovrd> i setup distcc
Apr 23 13:38:44 <crashovrd> scratchbox was a huge pain to get working
Apr 23 13:38:47 <crashovrd> i like simple
Apr 23 13:38:51 <mru> crashovrd: that's just skirting the issue
Apr 23 13:39:29 <suihkulokki> fiola seems to want a pony and eat it
Apr 23 13:39:30 <mru> people fail to realise the distinction between the product and the system that builds the product
Apr 23 13:39:46 <fiola> crashovrd: distcc is a good idea, but you wouldn't recommend that to beginners.
Apr 23 13:40:01 <mdp> I figured I was an oddball developing 6502 code *on* the beaglebone..now I find out it's commonplace..cool.
Apr 23 13:40:05 <mru> if you buy a car, it doesn't include all the tools and machinery needed to build a car
Apr 23 13:40:09 <thurbad> my point is, it is worth your time to learn to crosscompile
Apr 23 13:40:28 <fiola> suihkulokki: You don't want more power in the next Beagleboard either, correct?
Apr 23 13:40:40 <panto> mdp, developing for something that has a max object size of 64K is no problem on the bone
Apr 23 13:40:41 <crashovrd> there are some packages where crosscompiling is worse than waiting for the compile on the device
Apr 23 13:40:49 <crashovrd> distcc was the compromise
Apr 23 13:40:54 <panto> getting into the MB range is another thing
Apr 23 13:40:58 <mdp> panto, I thought it was revolutionary. *sniff*
Apr 23 13:41:02 <mru> crashovrd: the only one I know of is perl
Apr 23 13:41:03 <crashovrd> it allows all the ./config voodo to work
Apr 23 13:41:15 <crashovrd> while useing the speedy PC to do the actual work
Apr 23 13:41:24 <mdp> panto, I'll add that 6502 MMU to make things crazier then
Apr 23 13:41:30 <thurbad> I don't think we can even compile some of our code onboard without running out of memory now :/
Apr 23 13:41:39 <panto> mdp, +1 BERZERKER POINTS
Apr 23 13:42:11 <suihkulokki> fiola: embedded developer boards are always compromises, you don't get everything you want
Apr 23 13:42:13 <mru> thurbad: I see nothing noteworthy in that
Apr 23 13:42:16 <mdp> panto, http://www.6502.org/users/andre/icapos/mmu65.html
Apr 23 13:42:31 <mdp> panto, I'll send my family on vacation for a year so I can hack ;)
Apr 23 13:42:35 <thurbad> it's not a good thing.. just an interesting factoid
Apr 23 13:42:38 <mru> very few PCs are capable of compiling google chrome, yet they happily run it
Apr 23 13:42:45 <suihkulokki> if you just want more cpu power, you can look at odroid-u2 for example, but then you lose beagles io options
Apr 23 13:43:16 <panto> engineering is all about compromises
Apr 23 13:43:32 <panto> the premise of the bone is that it's a good compromise, that's all
Apr 23 13:43:35 <mru> engineering is about solving the actual problem
Apr 23 13:44:06 <crashovrd> still need an official distro like RPi has
Apr 23 13:44:07 <fiola> suihkulokki: The BeagleBone Black isn't just a developer board.  As the announcement made very clear, it's also intended as competition in the Raspberry Pi niche.  They're going for mindshare among techies, makers and educators.
Apr 23 13:44:09 <panto> mru, solving the problem is easy
Apr 23 13:44:18 <crashovrd> its SO NICE to be able to grab an image and write to SD
Apr 23 13:44:19 <panto> solving the problem and making a profit, that's the hard part
Apr 23 13:44:21 <crashovrd> boot and go
Apr 23 13:44:25 <mru> panto: without being wasteful
Apr 23 13:44:31 <crashovrd> and then when it comes time to file bug reports
Apr 23 13:44:36 <crashovrd> they are actually reproducable
Apr 23 13:44:50 <crashovrd> instead of having to wonder wtf randome patch from which kernel tree was included
Apr 23 13:44:54 <thurbad> they already have the techies and makers... probably not educators so much
Apr 23 13:44:57 <mru> crashovrd: wtf does "official distro" mean?
Apr 23 13:45:16 <crashovrd> a distro built to work OOB on the board
Apr 23 13:45:26 <crashovrd> including all the binary blobs & drivers
Apr 23 13:45:34 <mru> beagles can run angstrom, ubuntu, fedora, debian, opensuse, arch, etc, etc
Apr 23 13:45:38 * mdp tries to determine the difference between a developer board and "techies, makers, and educators"
Apr 23 13:45:40 * mdp ponders
Apr 23 13:45:58 * mdp receives the answer.
Apr 23 13:45:58 <crashovrd> so the 3d hardware works oob on all those distros?
Apr 23 13:46:04 <mdp> "Marketing"
Apr 23 13:46:16 <thurbad> 3d works on angstrom
Apr 23 13:46:34 <mru> debian might be squeamish about binary blobs
Apr 23 13:46:55 <crashovrd> RPI set up their own distro Raspian
Apr 23 13:46:56 <mru> but that's what defines them
Apr 23 13:47:04 <crashovrd> you install it and EVERYTHING works
Apr 23 13:47:07 <crashovrd> no fussing around
Apr 23 13:47:16 <mru> that's because there's so little that _can_ work
Apr 23 13:47:20 <mdp> everything works, except what doesn't work
Apr 23 13:47:38 <thurbad> if something doesn't work, good luck fixing it
Apr 23 13:47:49 <mru> getting usb and sgx working on a beagle is trivial too
Apr 23 13:47:53 <crashovrd> see u guys dont see the issue cuz u dont use the 'frills'
Apr 23 13:48:05 <KotH> crashovrd: you are aware that the blackbone comes with an sd card that contains angström?
Apr 23 13:48:06 <panto> what are those 'frills'?
Apr 23 13:48:07 <crashovrd> if there is no 3d/video, there is no point of me using the platform
Apr 23 13:48:07 <thurbad> the frills?
Apr 23 13:48:12 <KotH> crashovrd: isnt that official enough for you?
Apr 23 13:48:27 <thurbad> I'm running 3d and video.. what other frills do I need?
Apr 23 13:48:37 <mru> KotH: he's a hater, and haters gonna hate
Apr 23 13:48:43 <KotH> yeah..
Apr 23 13:48:52 <crashovrd> KotH, if there is a link to an image i can use to reflash then its a start
Apr 23 13:49:02 <KotH> afaik there is
Apr 23 13:49:04 <crashovrd> angstrom was the answer for BB (original)
Apr 23 13:49:08 <KotH> and if there isnt, it's trivial to build one yourself
Apr 23 13:49:09 <panto> there's a link to the source of the image too
Apr 23 13:49:13 <crashovrd> and it always made me cry
Apr 23 13:49:23 <crashovrd> you had to use some web page to build your own image
Apr 23 13:49:31 <crashovrd> and it was never reproducable
Apr 23 13:49:33 <thurbad> no you don;t
Apr 23 13:49:35 <crashovrd> you could not tell someone else
Apr 23 13:49:40 <mru> "you suck because you're not *exactly* like this other thing I already know how to use"
Apr 23 13:49:42 <panto> that web page is just a helper
Apr 23 13:49:46 <crashovrd> hey! go download this. install, then u can run my crap
Apr 23 13:49:52 <thurbad> angstrom builds fine on my machines
Apr 23 13:50:13 <panto> ok, so there are images
Apr 23 13:50:13 <KotH> crashovrd: for comparison: i build a linux system using buildroot for the pandaboard from scratch within two hours... and that includes reading up on what buildroot is
Apr 23 13:50:26 <panto> there are sources so that you can build the image yourself
Apr 23 13:50:28 <KotH> crashovrd: embedded linux is trivial these days
Apr 23 13:50:33 <thurbad> there are images to make it easier to start/get running
Apr 23 13:50:38 <KotH> crashovrd: as long as you know how linux works
Apr 23 13:50:43 <crashovrd> its fine if its for my use. but u need something that everyone can share
Apr 23 13:50:45 <crashovrd> so its the same
Apr 23 13:50:47 <panto> there are sources so that you can modify and add your own
Apr 23 13:50:50 <KotH> crashovrd: if you dont. well... dont get into embedded linux unless you want to learn it
Apr 23 13:50:58 <crashovrd> not what ever random patches and packages they strung together
Apr 23 13:51:07 <KotH> crashovrd: _we_ dont need something that _everyone_ can share
Apr 23 13:51:14 <crashovrd> so, yes, i can roll my own distro and image
Apr 23 13:51:17 <KotH> crashovrd: _you_ assume that _we_ need _that_
Apr 23 13:51:24 <crashovrd> but its not something i care to maintain and publish
Apr 23 13:51:31 <KotH> you dont have to
Apr 23 13:51:37 <thurbad> ok... so this is a rant, not a discussion...
Apr 23 13:51:43 <crashovrd> oh, dont get me wrong. im not mandating anything
Apr 23 13:51:45 <KotH> thurbad: it has been from the beginning
Apr 23 13:51:47 <crashovrd> not demanding anything
Apr 23 13:51:52 <crashovrd> not saying you HAVE to do it
Apr 23 13:52:06 <crashovrd> just saying thats one of the reason i enjoy the RPI so much
Apr 23 13:52:06 <mru> people who require a cookie-cutter distro are better off using a PC
Apr 23 13:52:07 <mdp> panto, first thing I noticed when I evaluated RPi was the lack of dma support for spi. immediate fail for maker use of the adafruit 1.8" display.
Apr 23 13:52:28 <crashovrd> someone else worries about keeping the system current. and i can just worry about my code
Apr 23 13:52:28 <thurbad> KotH:  probably
Apr 23 13:52:36 <crashovrd> and i can share it with the world
Apr 23 13:52:44 <panto> share what?
Apr 23 13:52:50 <KotH> crashovrd: look. the target of the beagle series are people who need an inexpensive, but still powerfull arm embedded system. it is not meant for the general, uneducated public
Apr 23 13:52:51 <mru> crashovrd: and what will you do when "they" stop maintaining it for you?
Apr 23 13:52:54 <mdp> panto, and no real docs to fix it ;)
Apr 23 13:52:56 <bradfa> cry
Apr 23 13:53:13 <KotH> crashovrd: unlike the rpi you need to have a clue for the bones
Apr 23 13:53:13 <panto> if it's an app you do, what is so special that needs an RPi to work?
Apr 23 13:53:18 <shapr> letothe2nd: Can I haz BeagleBone Black Right now?
Apr 23 13:53:37 <panto> the point of the bone is not to hack something that will only work on the bone
Apr 23 13:53:40 <fiola> Isn't there a Beaglebone-ready image of a full Linux like Debian ready for download?
Apr 23 13:53:49 <shapr> KotH: I think the goal of small boards is so people can get their own clue.
Apr 23 13:53:59 <mru> fiola: yes, there are many such images
Apr 23 13:53:59 <KotH> crashovrd: and that "clue" is the big difference between what you get for you money for the rpi and the beagles
Apr 23 13:54:00 <panto> is to do things in a way that is transferable to any other design
Apr 23 13:54:12 <shapr> fiola: The web pages claim that Ubuntu runs on the BeagleBoards, I don't have one myself.
Apr 23 13:54:16 <mru> crashovrd: said "clue" is also what we have and you do not
Apr 23 13:54:25 <crashovrd> lol
Apr 23 13:54:29 <KotH> shapr: nah.. you need to have some clue to get a beagle working. there are no dummy friendly exact steps out there
Apr 23 13:54:30 <agmlego> crashovrd: Just as a point? Raspbian was not orginially affiliated with the Rspberry Pi Foundation at all.
Apr 23 13:54:37 <fiola> shapr: BeagleBone != Beagleboard
Apr 23 13:54:54 <shapr> Oh, too bad. I was going to buy a BeagleBone in hopes of being able to bootstrape my own clue :-(
Apr 23 13:55:12 <thurbad> and another big difference.. #rpi would have banned you by now for thinking differently from the crowd :)
Apr 23 13:55:14 <KotH> shapr: but mind you: having a clue does not mean you know how to do it. you can learn it as you get the beagle working, but you need to have enough clue to read how to do that
Apr 23 13:55:21 <shapr> thurbad: Hm, they've been friendly to me.
Apr 23 13:55:43 * mdp kicks thurbad for thought crimes
Apr 23 13:55:54 <thurbad> ... ouch
Apr 23 13:56:23 * panto tries to derail the channel back to trolling ... and guns
Apr 23 13:56:25 <shapr> Are there any places where the BeagleBone Black is not sold out?
Apr 23 13:56:30 <panto> and chocolate
Apr 23 13:56:32 <mdp> panto, you had me at guns
Apr 23 13:56:44 <shapr> Salut panto! Ca Va?
Apr 23 13:56:45 <panto> those AR15s... those bullets...
Apr 23 13:56:46 <bradfa> shapr, is there any place that will actually put a black in a box and put a shipping label on it?
Apr 23 13:56:48 <fiola> shapr: announcement said "Full release in May"
Apr 23 13:56:54 <crashovrd> so.... thats a 'No, there will not be an official distro"?
Apr 23 13:56:55 <crashovrd> :D
Apr 23 13:57:01 <crashovrd> u guys are so hard to read
Apr 23 13:57:02 <mdp> http://26-26-54.hardwarebug.org/123
Apr 23 13:57:02 <thurbad> chocolate bullets :)
Apr 23 13:57:08 <panto> what's closest to original distro is angstrom
Apr 23 13:57:11 <panto> it will ship with it
Apr 23 13:57:12 <KotH> shapr: when i did my first embedded linux thing, i didnt know how to do it. i got a panda, installed a pre done image to verify that the hardware worked. then googled a day to learn how cross compilation and all the rest worked, what options i had on the build system etc ...
Apr 23 13:57:41 <KotH> shapr: on the second day, i had a working system that i understood and could modify to my needs
Apr 23 13:57:48 * letothe2nd gets the impression that KotH is still a n00b ;)
Apr 23 13:57:52 <bradfa> you can always learn the quite hard way -> http://cross-lfs.org
Apr 23 13:57:55 <mdp> KotH, you followed rule #3?
Apr 23 13:58:02 <thurbad> official is just a fancy way of saying less options
Apr 23 13:58:03 <KotH> letothe2nd: in terms of embedded linux, i am a n00b :)
Apr 23 13:58:03 <shapr> Well, I've used Linux lots, not up to bradfa's LFS link...
Apr 23 13:58:06 <crashovrd> i know how to churn cream into butter too. doesnt mean i want to
Apr 23 13:58:07 <letothe2nd> KotH: hrhr
Apr 23 13:58:07 <panto> hi shapr
Apr 23 13:58:08 <KotH> mdp: rule #3?
Apr 23 13:58:12 <bradfa> shapr, go read it, then
Apr 23 13:58:13 <mdp> KotH, http://26-26-54.hardwarebug.org/30
Apr 23 13:58:27 <crashovrd> modern convience is the point i was trying to make
Apr 23 13:58:28 <shapr> Nah, I have other things I need to do, I don't have time for linux from scratch rigt now.
Apr 23 13:58:28 <KotH> mdp: exactly
Apr 23 13:58:35 <mdp> KotH, that's just crazy!
Apr 23 13:58:48 <shapr> But I do have Arduinos and Raspberry Pis, and I like them. And the BeagleBone Black seems to be more of the same.
Apr 23 13:59:03 <thurbad> and on the 7th day Koth rested :P
Apr 23 13:59:09 <shapr> My real goal is to get Haskell working nicely on an embedded system, and the Raspberry Pi doesn't do that terribly well.
Apr 23 13:59:12 <mdp> shapr, you probably missed the details then
Apr 23 13:59:24 <KotH> mdp: you have met me. you should know that i am CRAZY! :)
Apr 23 13:59:28 <panto> shapr, ...ok....
Apr 23 13:59:33 <mru> how can "getting haskell working" be a goal?
Apr 23 13:59:33 <mdp> KotH, indeed you are
Apr 23 13:59:41 <KotH> thurbad: actually, i rested on that very evening ;)
Apr 23 13:59:43 <mru> haskell is just a programming language
Apr 23 13:59:46 <shapr> mru: Because that means I either need a much faster swap space, or more memory.
Apr 23 13:59:53 <fiola> crashovrd:  It might be a problem of community size.  RPi has so many people that there is always a sizeable bunch ready to say Yes to any idea, and work at it.  Here you mostly get No answers from the old guard, "Don't do this", "Don't do that", "We don't need this", etc.
Apr 23 14:00:05 <mdp> real goals must involve node.js
Apr 23 14:00:06 <shapr> I've heard the emmc on the BlackBone is especially fast, any idea where I can get more detail?
Apr 23 14:00:07 <panto> I disagree there
Apr 23 14:00:07 <thurbad> it was a bible joke (in case you didn't get the reference)
Apr 23 14:00:35 <letothe2nd> mdp: that is #105
Apr 23 14:00:37 <panto> maybe the old guards have gone that path already years ago and are trying to warn you about it
Apr 23 14:00:43 <letothe2nd> mdp: http://26-26-54.hardwarebug.org/105
Apr 23 14:00:47 <bradfa> fiola, I think here you get people saying, "no, we won't do it for you, but here, go look at that and make it work yourself"
Apr 23 14:01:01 <mru> a proper goal is a solution to some problem, which may or may not involve haskell
Apr 23 14:01:04 <mdp> hehe
Apr 23 14:01:05 <bradfa> fiola, if you wave money around, people here will jump
Apr 23 14:01:13 <bradfa> otherwise, learn!
Apr 23 14:01:14 <mru> running haskell is never a goal in itself
Apr 23 14:01:15 * mdp bounces
Apr 23 14:01:22 <shapr> mru: You are free to question my goals, I don't mind at all :-)
Apr 23 14:01:26 <mru> unless you're paid to make it available as a tool for others
Apr 23 14:01:31 <letothe2nd> mru: might goals involve curry?
Apr 23 14:01:37 <thurbad> I've gotten lots of help in #beagle.. just have to be patient and put plenty of work in yourself, you're not gonna get spoonfed here
Apr 23 14:01:38 <shapr> No, I do this because I want to! What better reason is there?
Apr 23 14:01:42 <mru> letothe2nd: sure, why not
Apr 23 14:01:54 <panto> go for it then
Apr 23 14:01:57 <KotH> fiola: that's not true. but the crowd here knows what makes sense on an embedded system and what doesnt. you can listen to them and learn or disregard their ideas and do the mistakes they warn you from
Apr 23 14:02:25 <bradfa> KotH, then again, we're talking about embedded systems that have more ram than I have any idea what to do with
Apr 23 14:02:35 <thurbad> making mistakes is one of the best ways to learn as long as there's no smoking board involved
Apr 23 14:02:35 <bradfa> and mmu's
Apr 23 14:02:43 <shapr> The neat thing about the Pi (and I assume the Beagle*) is that it's not much of an embedded system anymore. It's a real Linux system, usable as a small server, etc
Apr 23 14:02:43 <quanstro> dumb question; where can i buy a beaglebone black?
Apr 23 14:02:50 <KotH> fiola: having a big crowd of people who are happy to jump onto each and every newfangled idea does not mean they know anthing about what they are doing.
Apr 23 14:02:56 <bradfa> quanstro, mouser, special comp
Apr 23 14:02:58 <thurbad> at the moment.. they're probably all presold :/
Apr 23 14:03:02 <KotH> fiola: or to put it differently: eat shit! millions of flys cannot be wrong!
Apr 23 14:03:04 <quanstro> thanks!
Apr 23 14:03:10 <KotH> bradfa: hehe.. true!
Apr 23 14:03:19 <shapr> What's special comp?
Apr 23 14:03:23 <bradfa> special computing
Apr 23 14:03:25 <bradfa> company on the internet
Apr 23 14:03:26 <mdp> hehe, TI black site is /.ed
Apr 23 14:03:28 <bradfa> sells beagles
Apr 23 14:03:30 <KotH> bradfa: i'm still astonished that my cellphone has more of everything than my pc 10y ago... but only half the speed
Apr 23 14:03:47 <bradfa> KotH, law of software developers
Apr 23 14:03:52 <panto> mdp, have they put the bone site running on a bone?
Apr 23 14:03:54 <KotH> wirth's law?
Apr 23 14:03:54 <bradfa> processor goes faster -> more shiny!
Apr 23 14:04:06 <panto> bradfa, unfortunately that's dead
Apr 23 14:04:07 <shapr> What's it Wirth to you?
Apr 23 14:04:17 <bradfa> panto, I'm dead?
Apr 23 14:04:24 <thurbad> special comp is backordered btw
Apr 23 14:04:29 <panto> no more exponentially faster single cores anymore
Apr 23 14:04:33 <mru> blackordered
Apr 23 14:04:38 <fiola> KotH: Soimetimes, yeah, but it descends into fanboism a lot too.  For example the answer I got to the i.MX6 question was totally negative, despite the fact that there are tons of engineering applications that can make good use of a higher power CPU to do on-board processing.  Instant rejection was unwarranted.
Apr 23 14:04:38 <KotH> shapr: i know him, and shook his hand
Apr 23 14:04:40 <shapr> The cores can be made faster, they'll just melt.
Apr 23 14:04:40 <bradfa> panto, ah, that's OK
Apr 23 14:04:53 <mru> fiola: your imx6 question made no sense
Apr 23 14:04:56 <mru> it was a non-question
Apr 23 14:04:57 <shapr> KotH: Cool! I know lots of the functional programmers.
Apr 23 14:04:59 <KotH> fiola: what did you ask?
Apr 23 14:05:05 <shapr> KotH: Pascal is not my thing :-)
Apr 23 14:05:06 <panto> and that why you see all this latest small inexpensive craze
Apr 23 14:05:09 <quanstro> i can't find the beaglebone black on mauser.
Apr 23 14:05:11 <KotH> shapr: wirth is _not_ a functional programmer
Apr 23 14:05:13 <mdp> panto, it's on an arduino with a wiznet enet shield ;)
Apr 23 14:05:20 <panto> lol
Apr 23 14:05:21 <KotH> shapr: he is a dinosaur who refuses to go extinct
Apr 23 14:05:28 <shapr> KotH: I totally agree, just saying I walk the other side of the street.
Apr 23 14:05:30 <panto> fiola, there's a bias obviously
Apr 23 14:05:36 <panto> the channel is name #beagle afterall
Apr 23 14:05:38 <fiola> KotH: I asked whether TI had an i.MX6 class SoC for the Beagleboard 3 (which someone else mentioned).
Apr 23 14:05:39 <bradfa> quanstro, it's on the front page!
Apr 23 14:05:43 <shapr> Unlike logic programmers who walk both sides of the street!
Apr 23 14:05:51 <KotH> shapr: well.. he had some pretty decent ideas 30 years ago...but the world one way and wirth went the other
Apr 23 14:05:52 <bradfa> quanstro, http://www.mouser.com
Apr 23 14:06:00 <panto> but no-one said that the imx6 was a bad cpu
Apr 23 14:06:05 <mdp> folks, if you start here http://beagleboard.org/Products/BeagleBone+Black then the drop down has the direct links to each distributor
Apr 23 14:06:07 <KotH> fiola: ah.. asking the wrong thing in the wrong way
Apr 23 14:06:07 <bradfa> panto, imx6 is a bad cpu
Apr 23 14:06:08 <shapr> KotH: Oberon was srsly awesome no matter which way you look at it.
Apr 23 14:06:20 <panto> what we questioned is why would you want more speed?
Apr 23 14:06:23 <KotH> fiola: you dont want a beagle3, you want a high power board
Apr 23 14:06:30 <panto> especially since that would make the board more expensive
Apr 23 14:06:31 <KotH> fiola: these are available. but these are not beagle
Apr 23 14:06:33 <bradfa> hola alan_o
Apr 23 14:06:43 <KotH> shapr: the language or the OS?
Apr 23 14:06:48 <panto> we've seen that RPi's rise to fame is only attributed to low price
Apr 23 14:06:50 <KotH> salut alan_o
Apr 23 14:06:51 <quanstro> bradfa, can you send me the link you're using, cause mauser has no beagle on the front page i get.
Apr 23 14:06:52 <shapr> KotH: both!
Apr 23 14:06:57 <panto> cause as a board it's totally unremarkable
Apr 23 14:07:01 <KotH> shapr: i strongly disagree :)
Apr 23 14:07:07 <mdp> mmm 8997 "on order" at mouser ;)
Apr 23 14:07:08 <bradfa> http://www.mouser.com/new/beagleboardorg/beagleboneblack/
Apr 23 14:07:24 <mdp> bradfa, that direct link is even in the drop down
Apr 23 14:07:33 <alan_o> hey bradfa and KotH :)
Apr 23 14:07:33 <mdp> bradfa, this is all very difficult ;)
Apr 23 14:07:45 <shapr> KotH: When Windows 3.11 and DOS were the other options, Oberon the OS was amazing.
Apr 23 14:07:50 <bradfa> mdp, you can bounce while on IRC! :)
Apr 23 14:07:58 <mdp> bradfa, our google skills are l33t!
Apr 23 14:08:18 <bradfa> mdp, of course, we're on #beagle, it's a prereq
Apr 23 14:08:33 <KotH> shapr: ah.. welll
Apr 23 14:08:37 <bradfa> I'm sure CCO likes the backorders :)
Apr 23 14:08:41 <panto> hi jkridner|work
Apr 23 14:08:42 <quanstro> bradfa, thanks.  btw the element14 link in the dropdown does not work
Apr 23 14:08:43 <panto> hi alan_o
Apr 23 14:08:43 <KotH> shapr: i've first seen oberon somewhen around 2002
Apr 23 14:08:47 <jkridner|work> hi panto
Apr 23 14:08:48 <KotH> shapr: was not amazed at all
Apr 23 14:08:50 <alan_o> hi panto
Apr 23 14:08:53 <bradfa> quanstro, I have no idea
Apr 23 14:09:25 <mdp> jkridner|work, distributor dropdown for element14 broken on beagleboard.org...please fix
Apr 23 14:09:38 <bradfa> I love how blacks are "sold out!" when no one's shipping yet (as far as I can tell)
Apr 23 14:09:47 <shapr> KotH: I booted Oberon off a 1.44mb floppy, was thoroughly amazed to get a free operating system. But Linux wasn't really usable at that time.
Apr 23 14:09:49 <panto> it's marketting
Apr 23 14:09:52 <mdp> I'm putting my old ones on ebay
Apr 23 14:09:54 <alan_o> bradfa: that's who you generate hype :)
Apr 23 14:10:05 <KotH> shapr: damn.. you're old
Apr 23 14:10:05 * panto looks at his rev A1s 
Apr 23 14:10:10 <bradfa> alan_o, ah, ok, I've now passed marketing 101 :)
Apr 23 14:10:13 <shapr> bradfa: The ars technica article says they go on sale today
Apr 23 14:10:16 <KotH> shapr: i think mdp has some spare canes if you need one
Apr 23 14:10:20 <mdp> I will sell my A1s (signed by an obscure TI developer) for just $500/each
Apr 23 14:10:21 * bradfa looks at his A4 with bkopts blown...
Apr 23 14:10:23 * alan_o hands bradfa his certificate
Apr 23 14:10:27 <fiola> Just an artifact, in reality the production release isn't out till May, it said so in the announcement.
Apr 23 14:10:28 <shapr> KotH: It's true, I've been writing code for thirty years.
Apr 23 14:10:45 <mru> lol
Apr 23 14:10:45 <mdp> bradfa, I can't sell my A4 until I get one that actually has a PRU ;)
Apr 23 14:10:46 <alan_o> mdp: don't put those on ebay. PM ME!!!!
Apr 23 14:10:54 <bradfa> shapr, I'm almost that old!
Apr 23 14:10:54 * mdp PMs alan_o
Apr 23 14:10:59 <shapr> bradfa: awesome!
Apr 23 14:11:15 <quanstro> bradfa, the mauser link you posted works.  thanks.  and sorry for the noise.
Apr 23 14:11:26 <bradfa> quanstro, it's called mouser, not mauser
Apr 23 14:11:29 <bradfa> but you're welcome
Apr 23 14:11:38 * shapr checks the mauser domain name
Apr 23 14:11:41 <KotH> bradfa: too late!
Apr 23 14:11:42 <alan_o> bradfa: I think it's mansr
Apr 23 14:11:48 <KotH> bradfa: you're getting slow! ;)
Apr 23 14:11:48 <mdp> bradfa, you are pusing 65yo in "cynicism years". I read your g+ posts.
Apr 23 14:11:52 * bradfa loves avnet, everything on the site is backordered 26 weeks :)
Apr 23 14:12:02 <KotH> lol
Apr 23 14:12:30 <panto> bradfa, that's distro speak for 'we ain't ordering anything until you buy it'
Apr 23 14:12:49 <alan_o> bradfa: That's distribution 101 ^^
Apr 23 14:13:02 <mdp> I've heard that call the "lie-wall" as a tribute to "paywalls"
Apr 23 14:13:09 * bradfa has now passed marketing 101 and distribution 101 classes, all in one day! On the Internets!
Apr 23 14:13:12 <mdp> never believe what the disty web site claims
Apr 23 14:13:24 <bradfa> mdp, believe what the pretty sales lady says
Apr 23 14:13:28 <mru> never believe _anything_
Apr 23 14:13:32 <KotH> damn
Apr 23 14:13:37 <KotH> mru: i was going to say that!
Apr 23 14:13:39 <panto> I believe!
Apr 23 14:13:44 <mdp> bradfa, that's why they are always the top salespeople in the tech industry
Apr 23 14:13:45 * KotH is getting old and slow
Apr 23 14:13:46 <panto> I believe I can fly!
Apr 23 14:13:51 * KotH blames panto 
Apr 23 14:13:54 * panto exorcises Celine out of his mind
Apr 23 14:13:55 * bradfa watches panto fly!
Apr 23 14:13:58 <KotH> panto: kelly-fan?
Apr 23 14:14:16 <panto> not really
Apr 23 14:14:23 <panto> just trolling bro
Apr 23 14:14:24 * mru suspects panto does not so much fly as plummet
Apr 23 14:14:44 <bradfa> mru, is your paint dry yet?
Apr 23 14:15:09 <mru> bradfa: on the second coating now
Apr 23 14:15:24 <bradfa> progress!
Apr 23 14:15:39 <bradfa> painting, it's just like building gcc! needs 2 coats
Apr 23 14:15:49 * panto goes back trying to unravel gpmc on 3.8 
Apr 23 14:17:14 * bradfa goes back to mmu-less micro and ccsv5
Apr 23 14:17:37 * av500 goes back to just plain cry
Apr 23 14:19:12 <jkridner|work> hmmm.... website is quite slow today.
Apr 23 14:19:27 * KotH hands av500 a big pack of tempo
Apr 23 14:20:21 <mranostay> panto: Cher fan?
Apr 23 14:20:41 <panto> mranostay, how did you know?
Apr 23 14:20:45 <panto> are you a wizard?
Apr 23 14:21:13 <mru> more likely a lizard
Apr 23 14:21:19 <mru> the lizard people have spies everywhere
Apr 23 14:27:00 <alan_o> jkridner|work: you know what would be a great gsoc project, is for someone to do an extreme boottime bootloader for the beagle, like Alexandre Belloni did in his presentation at ELC-E (he used Freescale). He had an OpenGL app running in 700ms. Of course his came from nand, but I wonder how fast we could make it?
Apr 23 14:27:52 <KotH> alan_o: which presentation was that?
Apr 23 14:28:10 <KotH> alan_o: a.. scratch that... i should google myself
Apr 23 14:28:24 <alan_o> KotH: hehe :)
Apr 23 14:28:45 <KotH> alan_o: i'm getting old and lazy ;)
Apr 23 14:28:57 <alan_o> it was impressive. you could go up and push the reset button yourself.
Apr 23 14:29:11 <av500> well, store raw video in NAND
Apr 23 14:29:16 <mdp> alan_o, fwiw, there's been several public version of similar things done like that. the demos are the same things people do for production "fast boot"
Apr 23 14:29:19 <av500> and use MLO to pipe it to the LCD
Apr 23 14:29:20 <alan_o> av500: hehe
Apr 23 14:29:26 <av500> done
Apr 23 14:29:37 <mranostay> av500: 20A USB!
Apr 23 14:29:47 <mdp> alan_o, definitely can be done for one board and h/w config..makes a great demo
Apr 23 14:31:08 <woglinde_> mranostay atomic?
Apr 23 14:31:40 <KotH> woglinde_: atomic clock?
Apr 23 14:31:43 <alan_o> mdp: yeah, the process he went through didn't sound earth shattering. It's just a matter of having one for our board that we can point to and make hackaday articles that say "beaglebone boots in $n seconds" which makes "total speed junkies" want to buy it.
Apr 23 14:32:25 <alan_o> you know, the ones who want to "wring every last cycle out of [their] cpu"
Apr 23 14:32:55 <shapr> I just want more PWM pins!
Apr 23 14:32:55 <mdp> alan_o, yep, one "trick" is having all dma channels loading bits so the entire internal bus/crossbar bandwidth is saturated
Apr 23 14:33:10 <woglinde_> koth 20A usb
Apr 23 14:33:22 <fiola> Just found this after seeing the PRUs mentioned in BBB's feature list --- https://github.com/beagleboard/am335x_pru_package
Apr 23 14:33:25 <mdp> plus all the other usual stuff
Apr 23 14:33:27 <KotH> an 20A atomic usb clock?
Apr 23 14:33:50 <alan_o> KotH: A 20A USB vacuum cleaner
Apr 23 14:34:01 <mdp> fiola, same as has been used on the previous beaglebone and many projects
Apr 23 14:34:21 <fiola> Yep, same device
Apr 23 14:34:29 <alan_o> fiola: it is the ultimate bit-banger
Apr 23 14:34:52 <fiola> mdp: Got a link to someone who's blogged their PRU project?
Apr 23 14:35:18 <fiola> alan_o: Bet it's a step up from the Amiga blitter :P
Apr 23 14:35:53 <mdp> fiola, this guy has http://elinux.org/BeagleBone_6502_RemoteProc_cape
Apr 23 14:36:02 <fiola> Cheers
Apr 23 14:36:22 <mdp> http://blog.boxysean.com/2012/08/12/first-steps-with-the-beaglebone-pru/
Apr 23 14:36:53 <mdp> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1irR4TQ5aMA
Apr 23 14:37:09 <KotH> woha! exact steps!
Apr 23 14:37:19 <KotH> actually: exact steps for bitbanging!
Apr 23 14:37:25 <mdp> https://github.com/mranostay/beagle-nixie/
Apr 23 14:37:39 <mdp> http://hackaday.com/2012/06/26/offloading-vga-generation-onto-a-coprocessor/
Apr 23 14:38:24 <fiola> mdp: Very interesting alternative to using a CPLD or small FPGA for fast interfacing.
Apr 23 14:38:34 <mdp> http://elinux.org/ECE497_BeagleBone_PRU
Apr 23 14:38:39 <mdp> fiola, I know
Apr 23 14:38:48 <mru> eat that, rpi
Apr 23 14:38:48 <mdp> considering it's "free"
Apr 23 14:39:03 <mdp> but really, beaglebone is just "more of the same thing" ;)
Apr 23 14:39:40 <jj2baile> :) The next beagle should feature an FPGA as well
Apr 23 14:40:02 <mdp> http://hipstercircuits.com/beaglebone-pru-ddr-memory-access-the-right-way/
Apr 23 14:40:12 <mdp> jj2baile, why? install an fpga cape
Apr 23 14:40:22 <mdp> that's the point of the design
Apr 23 14:40:25 <fiola> Xilinx come from the opposite end with their Zinq range, they tack an ARM onto their FPGAs :P
Apr 23 14:40:30 <mdp> why add cost to the baseboard?
Apr 23 14:40:35 <mdp> that's insane
Apr 23 14:41:09 <jj2baile> heh
Apr 23 14:41:16 <mdp> fiola, nothing new there
Apr 23 14:41:29 <agmlego> fiola: *Zynq
Apr 23 14:41:49 <mdp> fiola, except they at least made the arm subsystem independent from the fpga portion..unlike the previous ppc405 designs
Apr 23 14:42:05 <mdp> there's never anything new in this industry ;)
Apr 23 14:42:42 * mdp notes that if a blog says it's the "right way" ... it's probably lying
Apr 23 14:42:55 <mru> if it's a blog, it's probably lying
Apr 23 14:43:21 <mdp> +1
Apr 23 14:43:36 <agmlego> If it was written by aq person, directly or indirectly, it is probably lying.,
Apr 23 14:45:05 <mdp> if anything, beagle needs permission and effort put in on a set of "Bone the Hard Way" tutorials ;)
Apr 23 14:45:52 <mdp> that writing/teaching style for the programming ones has my utmost respect
Apr 23 14:45:55 <crashovrd> why not the easy way!
Apr 23 14:46:03 <mdp> there is no easy way
Apr 23 14:46:11 <agmlego> Because the easy way is too easy.
Apr 23 14:46:29 <agmlego> The easy way is buying an off-the-shelf, pre-manufactured device.
Apr 23 14:46:39 <panto> easy fast cheap, pick two
Apr 23 14:46:59 <mdp> with completed s/w that's 100% verified working and 100% support for anything that goes wrong
Apr 23 14:47:06 <agmlego> If you are doing stuff with embedded dev boards, you are by definition already doing it the hard way.
Apr 23 14:47:11 <mdp> and meets 100% of all requirements now and in the future
Apr 23 14:48:02 <mdp> "easy" is buy your Apple device and consume media passively
Apr 23 14:48:22 <mdp> creating is "hard"
Apr 23 14:49:55 <fiola> mdp: I liked the VGA generator you linked, good bit-banging project
Apr 23 14:50:23 <mdp> note that it was done on a relatively ancient arm926 part with a PRU..less capable PRU
Apr 23 14:50:44 <mdp> considering you can do vaga with an 8-bit uC..this is trivial for PRU
Apr 23 14:50:53 <panto> we have high hopes for the PRU, but no time to work on it :)
Apr 23 14:50:53 <mdp> vga*
Apr 23 14:51:24 <mdp> panto, hehe
Apr 23 14:51:37 * panto looks at his TODO list and despairs 
Apr 23 14:52:03 <mdp> panto, meanwhile, *we* use it successfully again and again ;)
Apr 23 14:52:19 <mdp> that is, those willing to do things the "hard way"
Apr 23 14:53:20 <panto> doing things is too hard, let's go shopping
Apr 23 14:53:25 <mdp> amen
Apr 23 14:53:33 <mdp> can we grab some beers too?
Apr 23 14:53:40 <panto> beer's on me
Apr 23 14:54:02 <mdp> as usual, flights to your locale are at a premium ;)
Apr 23 14:54:18 * panto had some nice Frankiskaner yesterday 
Apr 23 14:54:34 <mdp> mmm
Apr 23 14:55:33 <mdp> panto, Houblon Chouffe is at our watering hole for the next two months.
Apr 23 14:55:43 <mdp> panto, I mean draft, of course
Apr 23 14:56:12 <panto> nice
Apr 23 14:56:29 <mru> two months, that's a slow turnover
Apr 23 14:56:31 <mdp> cheese platter with a pair of those yesterday ;) yum
Apr 23 14:56:36 <panto> I mentioned this before, but american beer crafting has been improving steadily the last few years
Apr 23 14:56:40 <CareBear\> friend of mine calls chouffe 'fairy tale beer'
Apr 23 14:57:13 <panto> I wouldn't mind picking up a few blue moons if they were available around here
Apr 23 14:57:30 <mdp> mru, regional chain here changes a set of themed taps on a 1-2 month basis..or until out for the rarer stuff
Apr 23 14:58:02 <mdp> mru, also in clusters..so I have to drive 45 minutes for another brewery's limited availability at a another group of these
Apr 23 14:58:22 <mru> my local has 5 ale pumps, rarely the same selection for more than a couple of days
Apr 23 14:58:23 <wmat> did Newark sell out already of BBBs?
Apr 23 14:58:53 <wmat> I see "Further stock expected to ship 28 Jun, 2013"
Apr 23 14:59:14 <mdp> mru, our rare stuff is gone in days...chouffe they can get enough volume though
Apr 23 15:00:11 <mdp> mru, according to the mgmt, the chouffe half barrels turn over every 3 days
Apr 23 15:00:25 <mdp> which I hope is true as that's a good sign
Apr 23 15:00:38 <mru> you don't want a stale barrel
Apr 23 15:00:41 <panto> dammit, you're making thirsty
Apr 23 15:00:42 <mdp> indeed not
Apr 23 15:00:49 <panto> *making me
Apr 23 15:01:11 <mdp> mru, it's easy for them because were talking a restaurant/pub with seating for 150+..turnover is quick
Apr 23 15:01:46 <mdp> anyway, back to work
Apr 23 15:01:53 <mdp> panto, I am also thirsty
Apr 23 15:02:32 <mdp> CareBear\, we're in the drawing for a Chouffe garden gnome from our pub ;)
Apr 23 15:02:53 <woglinde_> lalallaaa chocolate from koth
Apr 23 15:03:36 <mru> mdp: I think whoever makes the choices here is simply going for variety
Apr 23 15:04:06 <mdp> mru, what do your ale pumps look like on a given day?
Apr 23 15:04:17 * mdp apparently is not getting back to work
Apr 23 15:04:27 <mru> various regional stuff
Apr 23 15:04:50 <crashovrd> maybe if you guys werent alcoholics, you would be nicer to the n00bs
Apr 23 15:04:52 <mdp> sounds familiar
Apr 23 15:05:08 <mdp> crashovrd, yes, but we live in reality
Apr 23 15:05:11 <mru> crashovrd: it's the noobs that drive us to drinking
Apr 23 15:05:11 <av500> crashovrd: I'm only nice under influence
Apr 23 15:05:37 <av500> is jkridner a bot or does he reply to pings?
Apr 23 15:05:38 <panto> crashovrd, alcohol is the only thing that makes us nice to n00bs
Apr 23 15:05:53 <panto> av500, dunno, have you seen him blink?
Apr 23 15:06:48 <av500> seeing him would be a start
Apr 23 15:07:04 <panto> "I see beagle people"
Apr 23 15:07:17 <mru> famous irc people?
Apr 23 15:08:11 <KotH> crashovrd: i dont drink alcohol
Apr 23 15:08:28 <panto> so what is your excuse for being mean to n00bs then?
Apr 23 15:08:40 <av500> JIHAD!
Apr 23 15:09:27 <panto> you know, one of these days you'll travel to the .us and you'll make a few TSA people really happy to see you
Apr 23 15:09:41 <av500> :)
Apr 23 15:09:59 <av500> I .. I ... I was only quoting KotH
Apr 23 15:10:14 <panto> too late mister
Apr 23 15:10:21 * mru has already been flagged for carrying explosives once
Apr 23 15:10:22 <mdp> heh
Apr 23 15:10:27 <panto> irc logs live for ever!
Apr 23 15:11:08 <mru> of course they didn't find any
Apr 23 15:12:26 <av500> mru: ST40 lives on: http://www.cnx-software.com/2013/04/23/stmicro-stih416-dual-core-media-processor-and-linux-sdk
Apr 23 15:12:40 <mru> st40 is just another name for sh4
Apr 23 15:12:53 <fiola> Realistic caveat in the conclusions here -- http://elinux.org/ECE497_BeagleBone_PRU
Apr 23 15:13:04 <fiola> Right at the bottom
Apr 23 15:13:33 <mru> av500: oh, they're using it as a sequencer for the hw accels
Apr 23 15:14:37 <mdp> fiola, as is the case with any proprietary peripheral
Apr 23 15:14:47 <mdp> like a VideoCore4
Apr 23 15:14:49 * fiola nods
Apr 23 15:15:08 <mdp> except it's inaccurate
Apr 23 15:15:23 <mdp> there's people right here that know PRU
Apr 23 15:15:34 <mdp> and you found the canonical docs
Apr 23 15:15:43 <mdp> the real docs are in spruh73c.pdf
Apr 23 15:15:51 <fiola> Videocore is totally closed, so PRU is far more approachable right off the bat
Apr 23 15:15:59 <mdp> go forth and PRUltiply
Apr 23 15:16:11 <mru> forth implementation on pru?
Apr 23 15:16:22 <mdp> mru, it is our destiny
Apr 23 15:26:26 * mranostay facepalms
Apr 23 15:26:33 <mranostay> you guys aren't that old :)
Apr 23 15:27:31 <mranostay> maybe av500 is
Apr 23 15:30:09 <woglinde_> forth?
Apr 23 15:30:12 <woglinde_> why not
Apr 23 15:30:29 <woglinde_> hi jackmitchell
Apr 23 15:30:41 * av500 is fourty, not forthy
Apr 23 15:31:06 <woglinde_> I tought fifty
Apr 23 15:31:12 <mdp> forthy-neigh
Apr 23 15:31:51 * ogra_ only remebers fortran ... wasnt forth just a shallow rewrite ?
Apr 23 15:32:12 <mdp> ugh
Apr 23 15:32:21 <ogra_> :)
Apr 23 15:35:25 <jackmitchell> woglinde_: hi :)
Apr 23 15:35:30 <jackmitchell> I just had a shocker
Apr 23 15:35:44 <KotH> mranostay: we just had someone claiming he had been programming for over 30 years
Apr 23 15:35:48 <jackmitchell> tried to open a 500MB file in Geany and computer said no
Apr 23 15:36:47 <jackmitchell> but to be fair it did come back without a restart
Apr 23 15:37:11 * KotH recomends using leafpad
Apr 23 15:37:28 <av500> or edlin
Apr 23 15:37:50 <jackmitchell> I like geany, I just don't think it likes trying to open 500mb image files
Apr 23 15:38:02 <letothe2nd> C-M C-butterfly
Apr 23 15:38:15 <mdp> KotH, I have 87 years of programming experience
Apr 23 15:38:17 <jackmitchell> I thought it was going to try opening the beaglebone.img in an archive manager to view the contents, apparently not
Apr 23 15:38:31 <av500> looks like minecraft
Apr 23 15:38:47 <av500> little golden blocks everywhere
Apr 23 15:38:59 <KotH> mdp: billable hours are not real hours
Apr 23 15:39:07 <mdp> KotH, LOL ;)
Apr 23 15:39:45 <mdp> KotH, I own this one: http://www.despair.com/consulting.html
Apr 23 15:40:21 <KotH> mdp: lol
Apr 23 15:40:35 <KotH> i have a friend working in consulting... have to give him that one
Apr 23 15:40:48 <mdp> it's a must have if you are in the biz ;)
Apr 23 15:40:59 <mdp> btw, just as funny is the description next to it
Apr 23 15:41:29 <mdp> "PERFECT FOR: * The nine people in America who understand what it is consultants actually do"
Apr 23 15:41:57 <mdp> apologies for the .us-centric line, but you get the picture ;)
Apr 23 15:42:24 * KotH paints it blue
Apr 23 15:42:47 <KotH> .o0(why do i get an error message where no error message can be generated?)
Apr 23 15:48:54 <KotH> enough debugging for a day...
Apr 23 15:48:56 <KotH> bye boys
Apr 23 15:49:56 <fiola> Yeeha, 28 quid at Farnell --- http://uk.farnell.com/circuitco/bb-bblk-000/beaglebone-black-cortex-a8-dev/dp/2291620
Apr 23 15:50:01 <fiola> "18588 will be available for delivery on 3 May, 2013"
Apr 23 15:52:47 <CareBear\> damn, that's cheap
Apr 23 15:53:49 <CareBear\> fiola : but the rpi is still cheaper..
Apr 23 15:54:10 <wmat> mranostay: who you calling "not that old"!
Apr 23 15:54:29 * av500 is tired about this "cheaper" argument
Apr 23 15:55:22 <fiola> CareBear\:  It's hardly relevant that broken hardware is cheaper.
Apr 23 15:55:43 <CareBear\> of course it is
Apr 23 15:55:51 <CareBear\> who cares if stuff works
Apr 23 15:55:58 <mdp> msp430 lunchbox is still cheaper
Apr 23 15:56:22 <av500> msp430 lunch is ruined
Apr 23 15:56:29 <av500> 100% price hike
Apr 23 15:56:36 <mdp> no more free lunch
Apr 23 15:56:36 <CareBear\> mdp : lm4f too
Apr 23 15:56:41 <av500> yeah
Apr 23 15:57:14 <mdp> I'm having trouble compiling xbmc for msp430 though
Apr 23 15:57:24 * mranostay steals av500 lunch money
Apr 23 15:57:44 <fiola> Current conversion of $45 to GBP is 29.49, so Farnell's price is indeed good.
Apr 23 15:57:46 <mranostay> mdp: :)
Apr 23 15:58:25 <av500> I'm waiting for people to start selling BBB "kits", with overpriced HDMI cable, PSU, SD card and HDMI cable
Apr 23 15:58:47 <CareBear\> remember an HDMI cable
Apr 23 15:59:07 <av500> that too
Apr 23 16:00:14 <fiola> One outfit that's unfortunately going to be screwed by this (unfortunately because they're good guys) is Olimex.  Their A13 board is a direct competitor in both niche and price.
Apr 23 16:00:45 <CareBear\> I'm not so sure
Apr 23 16:00:51 <av500> it's a war
Apr 23 16:00:53 <av500> going on
Apr 23 16:00:58 <fiola> Tough though, they'll have to up the ante again.
Apr 23 16:01:00 <fiola> Yep
Apr 23 16:01:02 <av500> casualties everwhere
Apr 23 16:01:17 <av500> A13 in fact is nice
Apr 23 16:01:22 <av500> one can install XBMC
Apr 23 16:01:24 <CareBear\> I don't think hobbyists are a big market either for circuitco or olimex
Apr 23 16:01:54 <shapr> DigiKey is certainly pushing Olimex on the hobbyist side.
Apr 23 16:02:29 <CareBear\> are there enough hobbyists on digikey for it to matter?
Apr 23 16:02:42 <fiola> CareBear\: Farnell's "18588 will be available for delivery on 3 May, 2013" suggests that Farnell now realizes that the hobbiest market is more than incidental.
Apr 23 16:03:28 <CareBear\> fiola : Farnell has a solid b2b profile, it's even impossible to order from them in most of EU as an individual
Apr 23 16:04:14 <CareBear\> fiola : so I think that stock is more about companies using the board in products either as-is, or adding some capes on top
Apr 23 16:04:37 <av500> farnell is selling rpi too
Apr 23 16:04:58 <panto> the disties would sell cheese if it would move
Apr 23 16:05:12 <panto> all they see is the number rpi is pulling
Apr 23 16:05:28 <CareBear\> yup
Apr 23 16:05:56 <fiola> CareBear\:  Not so.  Although I've been using Farnell since the 80's, this millennium I've always been ordering privately, and their websites are set up for it.  RS is a lot more company-oriented, but Farnell even has a community website in Element 14.
Apr 23 16:06:41 <CareBear\> fiola : yes so, uk is not "most EU"
Apr 23 16:07:56 <fiola> Element 14 serves a worldwide hobbiest audience, not just industry professionals.
Apr 23 16:44:55 <bruce> Zero stock of BB-BBLK-000 at Digikey, Mouser and Newark. :(
Apr 23 16:44:56 <wmat> jkridner: is there a side by side feature comparison of the BBw and BBb somewhere?
Apr 23 16:47:10 <mranostay> Russ: can't catch a break from you :)
Apr 23 16:47:52 <Russ> dorkbotpdx does seem like a cool place though
Apr 23 16:49:31 <wmat> mranostay: you should ask in #yocto, as lots of them live there
Apr 23 16:50:31 <mranostay> hmm i know :)
Apr 23 16:50:55 <wmat> did they assimilate you?
Apr 23 16:56:35 <mdp> wmat, if I did the comparison, BBb would be minus the PRU :(
Apr 23 16:57:05 * wmat is just lazy
Apr 23 16:57:32 <mdp> somebody should put a comparison on elinux! :P
Apr 23 16:57:47 <wmat> no doubt
Apr 23 17:14:54 <fiola> bruce: Farnell UK says "18588 will be available for delivery on 3 May, 2013", so it seems likely that very high volumes have been manufactured.
Apr 23 17:17:31 <bruce> fiola: Thanks.  I read somewhere that their initial manufacturing run would involve 100k units so I expect most motivated people should have no trouble buying one, but I was hoping there would be stock today, since it's supposedly launch day.
Apr 23 17:17:50 <bruce> It's no real problem, just me being an impatient kid on Christmas morning.
Apr 23 17:18:02 <fiola> hehe
Apr 23 17:21:51 <rbarris> I got an email from Newark yesterday saying they had stock and ordered one.  But haven't got the "it shipped" mail yet.
Apr 23 17:22:11 <rbarris> I was on their pre-reg mail list.
Apr 23 17:23:46 <bruce> I got that email too, but they've never actually had stock as far as I can see.  It was just - launch day comes, so out go the emails.
Apr 23 17:32:40 <rbarris> did yours say the bit about "Good news! Inventory has arrived in our warehouse. We've only received a limited quantity however, so don't delay, place your order today! We're sure demand will be strong."
Apr 23 17:34:27 <fiola> Marketing spiel should always be ignored, on principle :P
Apr 23 17:43:25 <jdelgado> I guys just checking around I just purchase the Black so I am pretty excited
Apr 23 17:44:06 <panto> congrats
Apr 23 17:45:40 <jdelgado> thanks I have a lot of reading but I look fwd
Apr 23 17:46:43 <jdelgado> I am thinking of replacing my sprinkler system controller or setup an alarm for the house
Apr 23 17:46:51 <fiola> Take notes as you discover stuff, and blog it :-)
Apr 23 17:48:35 <jdelgado> I will I hope that I get it soon trying to find out if it is backorder or not
Apr 23 17:50:35 <jdelgado> ok guys back to work you guys have a great day
Apr 23 17:50:49 <panto> cya
Apr 23 17:50:52 <fiola> You too :-)
Apr 23 17:50:53 <robtow> Anyone know a site that lists beaglebone black as in stock?
Apr 23 17:51:07 <_av500_> hi robtow
Apr 23 17:51:11 <_av500_> not yet
Apr 23 17:51:17 <_av500_> ramp up is ongoing
Apr 23 17:51:27 * wmat ebays his A4 :/
Apr 23 17:51:30 <robtow> hey _av500
Apr 23 17:51:36 <wmat> heh, I jest
Apr 23 17:53:08 * KotH would totaly do that
Apr 23 17:53:16 <KotH> easy way to make lots of money!
Apr 23 17:54:07 <robtow> >:o
Apr 23 17:55:04 <wmat> nah, I couldn't do that
Apr 23 17:55:46 <bruce> rbarris: You got that email from Newark/Element 14, didn't you.  Then you click 'Buy now' and...
Apr 23 17:55:52 <bruce> http://www.newark.com/jsp/search/productdetail.jsp?sku=65W6016 Availability: 0.
Apr 23 17:56:23 <rbarris> le sigh
Apr 23 17:57:24 <_av500_> could be -100000
Apr 23 17:57:24 <panto> lead time 66 days
Apr 23 17:57:28 <_av500_> 0 is not os bad
Apr 23 17:57:34 * panto is disappointed... expected 666 days
Apr 23 17:57:40 <fiola> lol
Apr 23 17:57:53 <robtow> seven weeks is a bit long, best quote I found
Apr 23 17:58:30 <bruce> I don't think any of those lead-time quotes mean anything.  They'll get stock when they get it, which should hopefully be soon.
Apr 23 17:58:46 <_av500_> yes
Apr 23 17:58:48 <bruce> I bet the fastest way to get a Black is to place an order at any major distributor.
Apr 23 17:59:03 <_av500_> bruce: or hang out here for 3 years in advance
Apr 23 17:59:07 <_av500_> worked for me
Apr 23 17:59:33 <robtow> digikey?
Apr 23 17:59:48 <fiola> So, RPi costs £26.48 and BBBlack costs £27.87 ... but BBB comes with power brick and USB lead, RPi doesn't.  So, BBB is cheaper!
Apr 23 18:00:10 <robtow> has pi; not impressed.
Apr 23 18:00:14 <_av500_> imagine it was 1¢ more expensive
Apr 23 18:00:20 <_av500_> nobody would buy it
Apr 23 18:01:30 <crashovrd> im a impressed the the friendly and courteous community the raspberry pi has in addition to its official all inclusive distribution
Apr 23 18:01:45 <fiola> hahaha
Apr 23 18:01:53 <koen> crashovrd: well played!
Apr 23 18:01:58 <crashovrd> ;)
Apr 23 18:02:35 <bruce> I wish Pi would come out with its camera board already.  That'd be a cool accessory.
Apr 23 18:03:43 * panto works on the bone camera right now...
Apr 23 18:03:54 <robtow> bruce - pi is underpowered by image processing; have been doing some with simplecv - kinda slow.
Apr 23 18:04:06 * fiola feels like saying "PRU" a few times on the RPi forum
Apr 23 18:04:53 <_av500_> I once said MPEG2
Apr 23 18:05:15 <bruce> Pi camera is a bit odd for CV, to be sure.  High speed camera, low processing bandwidth.  Oops.  Still, for the money, it'll find applications.
Apr 23 18:05:40 <bruce> panto: Got a link for your bone camera?
Apr 23 18:06:52 <panto> http://beagleboardtoys.info/index.php?title=BeagleBone_3.1MP_Camera
Apr 23 18:07:09 <panto> not worky yet for 3.8
Apr 23 18:07:14 <panto> I'm on it though
Apr 23 18:07:22 <_av500_> man, 3.1 MP is so last decade
Apr 23 18:07:29 <_av500_> my phonephabletcam has 24
Apr 23 18:07:47 <woglinde> phonetablet?
Apr 23 18:07:56 <_av500_> woglinde: no nitpicking!
Apr 23 18:07:58 <woglinde> I tought it was a phone from archos
Apr 23 18:08:00 <panto> _av500_, I hate you... :)
Apr 23 18:08:05 <woglinde> not tabletphone
Apr 23 18:08:17 <fiola> Here's something hilarious:  The forever-broken USB controller on the Pi's BCM2835 SoC would be fixable if Broadcom had a PRU in their chip, because then a PRU could service the USB's 1ms response latency requirement instead of the USB events occasionally being dropped.
Apr 23 18:08:35 <woglinde> fiola beagles have musb
Apr 23 18:08:38 <_av500_> what's an event between friends
Apr 23 18:08:39 <robtow> fiola - yikes!
Apr 23 18:10:02 <panto> usb if b0rken, film at 11
Apr 23 18:10:15 <panto> if you got to rely on something working on your board, don't let it be usb
Apr 23 18:10:38 <robtow> Digikey says they will ship on the 25th.
Apr 23 18:10:45 <woglinde> panto how is the cam connected?
Apr 23 18:11:43 <_av500_> woglinde: wires
Apr 23 18:11:57 <panto> woglinde, gpmc memory interface
Apr 23 18:12:28 <_av500_> panto: what user space api does it end up in?
Apr 23 18:12:31 <_av500_> v4l2?
Apr 23 18:12:38 <_av500_> or /dev7mem?
Apr 23 18:12:51 <panto> should be v4l2
Apr 23 18:12:59 <panto> I dunno what 3.2 did
Apr 23 18:13:00 <_av500_> yeah, it mentions cheese
Apr 23 18:13:15 <panto> that kernel is/was a little bit funky
Apr 23 18:13:42 <robtow> Placed order with Digikey.
Apr 23 18:13:44 <woglinde> v4l2 loopback is nice
Apr 23 18:14:00 <panto> if you got to do it usb cameras work
Apr 23 18:14:09 <panto> but, it's usb
Apr 23 18:14:13 <woglinde> so you can turn your ip cam into a a local v4l2 device
Apr 23 18:14:14 <panto> expect high cpu low
Apr 23 18:14:42 <woglinde> what now a low cpu high?
Apr 23 18:15:32 <_av500_> a high low cpu
Apr 23 18:16:27 <panto> *load
Apr 23 18:18:02 <bruce> panto: Looks interesting.  Suitable for opencv, I presume?  Industrial vision type applications?
Apr 23 18:18:18 <panto> yes, that's the idea
Apr 23 18:18:33 <bruce> (i.e. looking at squareish stuff under somewhat controlled lighting and distance conditions)
Apr 23 18:18:44 <panto> not only that
Apr 23 18:18:52 <panto> but camera people are weird
Apr 23 18:19:27 <agmlego> No we are not.
Apr 23 18:19:40 <bruce> ^ case in point.
Apr 23 18:19:47 <bruce>  /jk
Apr 23 18:20:05 <agmlego> ;-P
Apr 23 18:20:15 * agmlego works in industrial machine vision.
Apr 23 18:20:35 <agmlego> Mostly in final system integration.
Apr 23 18:21:23 <agmlego> So, I take other people's hardware, munge it all together with a few robots and stuff, and write some code to glue someone else's software tools together to do the inspection/guidance/veriication/PFM/whatever.
Apr 23 18:21:31 <agmlego> And then I get paid.
Apr 23 18:21:47 <ka6sox-farfarawa> mourning
Apr 23 18:22:15 <fiola> I wonder how fast two BeagleBones can communicate through their PRUs, back to back, doing the sync in PRU code.
Apr 23 18:22:22 <_av500_> 54
Apr 23 18:22:36 <_av500_> 26 each
Apr 23 18:22:45 <panto> lol
Apr 23 18:22:52 <fiola> Hi ka6
Apr 23 18:23:05 * bruce was in industrial CV, but had the luxury of doing mostly software stuff - someone else had the pleasure of making sure there was a well focused and lit image on the screen.
Apr 23 18:23:07 <_av500_> wasnt limited amount of PRU input pins an issue on bone?
Apr 23 18:23:28 <panto> fiola PRUs run at 200MHz, 5ns per cycle
Apr 23 18:23:33 <agmlego> bruce: Ah, so you did the easy 5%.
Apr 23 18:23:34 <agmlego> ;-P
Apr 23 18:23:34 <_av500_> bruce: I'd gather hanging a lamp is easier than writing CV code :)
Apr 23 18:23:44 <panto> there's shared RAM single cycle access
Apr 23 18:23:45 <agmlego> _av500_: Not at all.
Apr 23 18:24:02 <agmlego> _av500_: Easily 90% or more of my job is making sure there is a good image.
Apr 23 18:24:26 <fiola> panto: Yeah, but that won't be the transfer datarate.  Bit banging async clock recovery will reduce that right down.
Apr 23 18:24:27 <bruce> agmlego: As I see it, I got the fun part. :P
Apr 23 18:24:29 <agmlego> Lighting, optics, filters, and sensors all have to be correct for the application.
Apr 23 18:24:42 <panto> fiola, you'll be surprised
Apr 23 18:24:47 <agmlego> The actual image processing is just basic matrix diddling.
Apr 23 18:24:50 <panto> there's other h/w peripherals in there
Apr 23 18:24:54 <panto> ok, time to eat
Apr 23 18:25:05 * mranostay harlem shakes in
Apr 23 18:25:06 <_av500_> gyros again
Apr 23 18:25:20 <_av500_> mranostay: your meme is growing mold
Apr 23 18:26:01 <bruce> agmlego: Yeah, I wonder what range of applications panto's board is suitable for.  It looks like one sensor only, with un-changeable optics.
Apr 23 18:26:07 <_av500_> jkridner: d'ya think once could talk gsoc with you some time?
Apr 23 18:26:18 <agmlego> bruce: So, it is a CCTV camera. ;-P
Apr 23 18:26:32 <agmlego> panto: Got a link to your hardware?
Apr 23 18:26:32 <mranostay> _av500_: what is the new one?
Apr 23 18:26:56 <mranostay> gangnam style is old as well
Apr 23 18:26:59 <bruce> agmlego: panto gave me this link a bit earlier... http://beagleboardtoys.info/index.php?title=BeagleBone_3.1MP_Camera
Apr 23 18:27:49 <agmlego> Oh, he is one of the folk trying to get the camera port to work.
Apr 23 18:28:14 <david__> does it come with power adapter -if not which one and were to get
Apr 23 18:28:14 <_av500_> mranostay: make one!
Apr 23 18:28:25 <david__> huh
Apr 23 18:28:40 <_av500_> uhu
Apr 23 18:28:52 <david__> were can you buy one
Apr 23 18:28:54 <agmlego> bruce: Yeah, I see little about that that interests me professionally.
Apr 23 18:29:18 <bruce> I'm looking for hobbyist level stuff, so it might serve.
Apr 23 18:29:20 <_av500_> the word "toys" in the URL is a hint
Apr 23 18:29:51 <agmlego> bruce: What is wrong with just getting a webcam with decent optics and a bigger sensor?
Apr 23 18:29:53 <bruce> Real CV cameras and optics tend to be in the "call us for a quote" price category.
Apr 23 18:30:00 <agmlego> Probably cheaper and more robust.
Apr 23 18:30:06 <bruce> ... and USB.
Apr 23 18:30:07 <agmlego> Certainly better image quality.
Apr 23 18:30:16 <agmlego> And?
Apr 23 18:30:16 <_av500_> try beagleboardcallusforaquotestuff.info
Apr 23 18:30:51 <agmlego> bruce: Depends on your budget. Much of the hardware we deal with is <US$500 per camera, and ~$150 for optics.
Apr 23 18:31:08 <agmlego> And all GigE, so stupid easy to work with.
Apr 23 18:31:36 <bruce> I guess I've just never had good experience with USB webcams.  "Documentation?  We don't need no stinking documentation!"
Apr 23 18:31:59 <bruce> "What do you mean, you want to use it on something other than Windows?!?"
Apr 23 18:32:18 <bruce> "Plug and play - in MS Paint!"
Apr 23 18:32:49 <_av500_> al you need is the COM API
Apr 23 18:32:51 <_av500_> all
Apr 23 18:33:12 <agmlego> bruce: The Logitech ones are pretty damned solid.
Apr 23 18:33:15 <bruce> all you need is to reverse engineer the COM API
Apr 23 18:33:25 <agmlego> And the newest ones have real glass in the optics, and reasonably large sensors.
Apr 23 18:33:46 <agmlego> V4L2 supports them nicely.
Apr 23 18:33:52 <bruce> agmlego: I'll look at them, next time I get around to playing with this stuff.  At the moment, I'm just dreaming.
Apr 23 18:34:19 <agmlego> Heh.
Apr 23 18:34:32 <bruce> It's been a decade since I did anything serious in this space, so I'm sure my expectations and biases are well out of date.
Apr 23 18:34:38 * agmlego is working on a vision project for his hackerspace, actually, and will likely be using one there.
Apr 23 18:35:04 <agmlego> And probably a Pi, because we have stacks of them and it is a low-demand application.
Apr 23 18:50:33 <mranostay> agmlego: we don't speak of that board in here
Apr 23 18:51:53 <KotH> if i would want to get production+selling+shop of some openhardware pcbs i have designed, where would i go to?
Apr 23 18:52:04 <KotH> (it's not a cape, so i doubt cco is interested)
Apr 23 18:52:33 <mranostay> KotH: oshpark? :P
Apr 23 18:53:06 <KotH> it's not just pcb production, but also assmebly
Apr 23 18:53:45 <biot> mranostay: quick, give me an excuse to get a beaglebone black!
Apr 23 18:54:02 <KotH> biot: it will get you all the girls you want
Apr 23 18:54:17 <biot> great. now I have to buy 5.
Apr 23 18:54:49 <mranostay> biot: signal generator?
Apr 23 18:55:24 <agmlego> mranostay: Well, I *would* do it with a Beagle product, but our drawer of them is empty.
Apr 23 18:55:52 <agmlego> I guess I could poke jkridner about it... ;-P
Apr 23 18:55:57 <biot> mranostay: what, just bit-banging GPIO pins from userspace?
Apr 23 18:56:29 <fiola> biot: It's got PRUs that can do it realtrime at 200MHz
Apr 23 18:57:11 <biot> hmm, didn't know that
Apr 23 18:57:30 <mranostay> biot: PRU!
Apr 23 18:57:43 <biot> how do you drive that? you give it a pattern to repeat or?
Apr 23 18:58:02 <mranostay> 8kb of instruction code
Apr 23 18:58:10 <mranostay> so you can do a lot
Apr 23 18:58:17 <fiola> You program up the PRU in its assembler to do whatever low-level thing you want, then control it from userspace.
Apr 23 18:58:20 <mranostay> exposed on two registers
Apr 23 18:58:38 <mdp> two 200mhz uCs
Apr 23 18:58:46 <mdp> let's KISS
Apr 23 18:58:52 <mranostay> lets not
Apr 23 18:58:55 <mdp> :P
Apr 23 18:59:01 <KotH> biot: some weird guy called mdp uses a beagle with its PRUs to emulate unobtainable hardware for an 6502
Apr 23 18:59:03 <fiola> biot: here's a "blink" on PRU -- https://github.com/boxysean/am335x_pru_package/tree/master/pru_sw/example_apps/blink
Apr 23 18:59:15 <rbarris> i was reading one of the PRU docs and still don't quite grok the shift register support.  Can PRU be used to sink data from multiple external serial devices like adc's ?
Apr 23 18:59:20 <mranostay> fiola: THAT IS WRONG!
Apr 23 18:59:22 <mranostay> WRONG!
Apr 23 18:59:34 <mdp> KotH, unobtanium++
Apr 23 19:00:06 <fiola> mranostay: Yeah, I know, it should be hello world :P
Apr 23 19:00:16 <KotH> mdp: well, you could always use an fpga..that would be almost like the real thing ;)
Apr 23 19:00:19 <biot> hrmm, looks great indeed
Apr 23 19:00:25 <biot> right, gotta have one
Apr 23 19:00:51 <KotH> rbarris: you can do anything you want with them
Apr 23 19:01:06 <KotH> rbarris: you are basically bitbaning the PRU I/Os
Apr 23 19:01:12 <KotH> rbarris: at 200MHz
Apr 23 19:01:20 <fiola> Well the great thing is, the price is now below the radar.  Same as Rpi, at that price you no longer need to think "Shall I?"
Apr 23 19:01:32 <rbarris> that's understood, thanks
Apr 23 19:01:39 <KotH> fiola: the bone was always cheap
Apr 23 19:01:48 <KotH> fiola: and below the radar
Apr 23 19:01:49 <mdp> I highly recommend reading 4.5.2.2.3 in spruh73c.pdf for GPI/GPO direct/shift operation
Apr 23 19:01:52 <mranostay> bradfa: battery header got added are you happy again? :)
Apr 23 19:02:15 <fiola> KotH: not below the radar cheap.  You can do too much with $89.
Apr 23 19:02:30 <KotH> http://caxapa.ru/thumbs/302179/spruh73c_.pdf
Apr 23 19:02:36 <KotH> (for those too lazy to google)
Apr 23 19:02:47 <mdp> thx KotH
Apr 23 19:03:04 <mranostay> fiola: no you shouldn't be toggling GPIOs like that it isn't using the PRU correctly
Apr 23 19:03:07 <bradfa> mranostay, I'm always happy :)
Apr 23 19:03:12 <mdp> KotH, fpga would have defeated the hack value of my project
Apr 23 19:03:27 <bradfa> mranostay, but there's no refdes for the header, it's test points, which makes my BOM modifications fun
Apr 23 19:03:53 <bradfa> CCo wants an updated BOM from me for white labels... turns out I want like 75 parts nopop'ed
Apr 23 19:03:58 <bradfa> go me
Apr 23 19:04:08 <mdp> rbarris, that ref was for you, fwiw, 4.5.2.2.3.
Apr 23 19:04:11 <fiola> mranostay:  there is no "incorrectly" unless it breaks the operational specs given on the datasheet.
Apr 23 19:04:23 <rbarris> tnx mdp
Apr 23 19:04:35 <mdp> KotH, gave the secret link to the old TRM
Apr 23 19:04:41 <KotH> fiola: not really... that will not even buy you an Rb frequency normal
Apr 23 19:05:07 <rbarris> is there a new TRM?  is it better or different ?
Apr 23 19:05:09 <KotH> mdp: i know you cannot c&p that link :)
Apr 23 19:05:13 <mdp> ;)
Apr 23 19:05:30 <mdp> new TRM is "different"
Apr 23 19:05:33 <rbarris> someone mentioned spruh73c earlier and it's the first hit on google..
Apr 23 19:05:47 <mdp> the world wants spruh73c
Apr 23 19:06:46 <fiola> The top spruh73c on Google is from .ru, and PDF is an easily compromised format ...
Apr 23 19:06:51 <KotH> fiola: ok.. i might not be your usual electronics buyer.. given the fact that i spend 300USD on 8663's
Apr 23 19:07:46 <KotH> fiola: pdf's are not easier compromised than a .txt
Apr 23 19:08:02 <KotH> fiola: or a video file or....
Apr 23 19:08:16 <fiola> KotH: I'm looking forward to seeing what whacky "You should not do this" things people do with the Black's PRU.  I hope it catches on :-)
Apr 23 19:08:18 <KotH> fiola: if your pdf reader is exploitable, then you are using the wrong one, or an outdated one
Apr 23 19:08:30 <KotH> fiola: you will see them :)
Apr 23 19:08:43 <mdp> we discuss them regularly on this channel, stay tuned
Apr 23 19:08:47 <KotH> fiola: and given the hype we have here... there will be an influx of many of those
Apr 23 19:08:56 <mdp> usually starts with boxysean's blog entry
Apr 23 19:09:27 <KotH> mdp: the PRU one?
Apr 23 19:09:31 <KotH> mdp: ist that good or bad?
Apr 23 19:09:33 <mdp> yes
Apr 23 19:10:03 <mdp> first steps with beaglebone pru are to bitbang the gpio IP :(
Apr 23 19:10:37 <KotH> well.. i would do the same.. to get a feel
Apr 23 19:10:42 <mdp> extra code and effort to do something less efficiently than the native pru gpi/gpo
Apr 23 19:10:44 <KotH> start simple, start with basics
Apr 23 19:10:48 <mdp> it's not simple ;)
Apr 23 19:10:53 <mdp> that's the funny thing
Apr 23 19:11:01 <KotH> uh?
Apr 23 19:11:02 <KotH> ok
Apr 23 19:11:11 <cmicali> mdp: any idea what the penalty is for toggling GPIO vs the single-instruction PRU pins?
Apr 23 19:12:04 <jj2baile> why was the PRU section severely cut down in later TRM revisions?
Apr 23 19:12:34 <mdp> simple is doing a single instruction to store to r30..done
Apr 23 19:12:40 <KotH> so mdp can spread the word of the spruh73c
Apr 23 19:12:49 <mdp> jj2baile, nobody can answer that here
Apr 23 19:13:12 <KotH> mdp: i dont think he gets what you are hinting at :)
Apr 23 19:13:38 <jj2baile> well I was going to ask: "Unable to, or disallowed from", but i think that answers my question
Apr 23 19:14:04 <KotH> jj2baile: hint: a couple of the people in this channel are either working for TI or under TI NDA
Apr 23 19:14:23 <jj2baile> I figured;
Apr 23 19:15:04 <KotH> jj2baile: the others are either n00bs or trolls :)
Apr 23 19:15:31 <robtow> < ex TI
Apr 23 19:15:48 <KotH> robtow: so, you fall into the n00b category? ;)
Apr 23 19:16:31 <robtow> KotH - I was part of the 1700 laid off last Nov when TI closed the mobile division after failing to sell it to Amazon
Apr 23 19:17:04 <KotH> oh..one of the omapgeddon victims :-(
Apr 23 19:17:14 <panto> robtow, same here...
Apr 23 19:18:37 <KotH> mdp: if you have ever the chance, could you tell the other TI to please make again some calculators that have a useable keyboard layout for scientific and engineering use?
Apr 23 19:18:51 <stealth``> does the beaglebone has proper display drivers for arm linux or runs on FB / Neon Optmized FB?
Apr 23 19:18:52 <robtow> panto - my sympathies!
Apr 23 19:19:02 <panto> life goes on
Apr 23 19:19:08 <KotH> mdp: everyone since the ti-92 sucks... and gets even more sucky :-(
Apr 23 19:19:18 * wmat hears omapogeddon continues to this day
Apr 23 19:19:54 <KotH> stealth``: yes
Apr 23 19:20:20 <robtow> panto - bad timing, with the woes in Greece.
Apr 23 19:20:30 * panto shrugs 
Apr 23 19:20:41 <panto> got another gig with CCO
Apr 23 19:20:42 <mdp> cmicali, couple things at work there 1) gpio ip clock  limit..probably on the order of 25MHz toggle max..I think some folks have done arm baremetal (vague memory) to prove 2) contention for packets on the crossbar interconnect (you do an instruction that's single cycle to a pru register and it's guaranteed 5ns...write outside of the PRUSS and it not deterministic
Apr 23 19:21:09 <panto> somehow I keep finding people willing to employ me :)
Apr 23 19:21:21 <cmicali> mdp: interesting thanks, i assumed the interconnect delay but forgot about the gpio clock issue
Apr 23 19:21:37 <mdp> cmicali, so that means, if you have something exciting going on like pushing polygons doing networking, heavy display work...you are creating crossbar traffic..and you will stall and not get 1 cycle response
Apr 23 19:21:48 <mdp> you just have no idea in a system that's doing other things
Apr 23 19:22:16 <mdp> the stalls are the real problem
Apr 23 19:22:24 <alan_o> mdp: are you saying that Linux is not a realtime operating system?
Apr 23 19:22:26 <cmicali> mdp: yeah i have one pru pushing data from pru memory to ddr and C code in linux doing FFT on that stuff
Apr 23 19:22:40 <alan_o> mdp: and are you saying I can't have infinite bandwidth and zero latency?
Apr 23 19:22:52 <mdp> it defeats the purpose *most* bitbanging use cases with the pru
Apr 23 19:22:55 <cmicali> mdp: but i have ONE pin i attached to a gpio instead of a pru pin on my board, and i expect it is going to cause some shit
Apr 23 19:22:56 <alan_o> and low cost?
Apr 23 19:23:07 <mdp> alan_o, that's what I'm told..I don't know anything though, I just work here
Apr 23 19:23:15 <alan_o> hehe
Apr 23 19:23:17 <alan_o> ok, later all
Apr 23 19:23:20 <panto> alan_o, linux is not a real time OS, and linus smells of elderberries
Apr 23 19:23:27 <mdp> alan_o, I don't even know what any of this stuff means, I just repeat from the internal script ;)
Apr 23 19:24:03 * alan_o saw the panto comment just as the window was closing
Apr 23 19:24:05 <alan_o> hehe
Apr 23 19:24:08 <mdp> cmicali, depends on what response deadline you have for the pin..it all depends
Apr 23 19:24:18 <mdp> the transaction will get there..but who knows when
Apr 23 19:24:26 <KotH> mdp: let me guess, you are working in a large room with hundrets of other people, all of them with an irc client infront of them, where they "support" a certain irc channel ? :)
Apr 23 19:24:36 <panto> KotH, +1
Apr 23 19:25:00 <mdp> KotH, yes, I was going to tell you that Bob from the #nspire channel says he can support you over there...I saw him during our 20 minute lunch break
Apr 23 19:25:04 <cmicali> mdp: yeah it's the non-determinism that i think will be the problem, doing realtime/regular sampling from an external a/d and would rather not have big jitter
Apr 23 19:25:09 <cmicali> board revision i guess ugh
Apr 23 19:25:27 <mdp> cmicali, yeah, the number of pins is irrelevant if your deadline is important
Apr 23 19:27:27 <mdp> cmicali, the best real world example I can give you is reading some of lyren brown's comments about what happened when he tried to back his pru-based atari expansion memory emulator with DRAM
Apr 23 19:27:44 <mdp> he'd try to go out to DRAM and then start to fail decoding 65xx bus cycles
Apr 23 19:27:53 <cmicali> interesting
Apr 23 19:27:57 <mdp> he had to batch things, IIRC
Apr 23 19:28:09 <mdp> i.e. he started missing deadlines due to crossbar stalls
Apr 23 19:28:29 <cmicali> wasn't the atari emulator pretty slow too?
Apr 23 19:28:35 <cmicali> meaning, whatever the atari clock rate was
Apr 23 19:28:41 <mdp> 1mhz
Apr 23 19:28:55 <mdp> or maybe it was a 2mhz 6502..can't recall now
Apr 23 19:29:06 <cmicali> still, stall must have been pretty long to drop on that
Apr 23 19:29:32 <ka6sox-farfarawa> doing a 1mhz part should be fairly easy with today's modern processors
Apr 23 19:29:37 <mdp> well, it takes a few 6502 bus cycles
Apr 23 19:30:00 <mdp> bah..try again...it takes a few instructions to do that 6502 bus cycle loop
Apr 23 19:30:39 <mdp> then you end up hardcoding delays (surprise!) to make things not respond too fast ahead of your buffer propagation delays
Apr 23 19:30:42 <mdp> like on a read
Apr 23 19:30:52 <mdp> so then you have it all correct
Apr 23 19:30:58 <mdp> and cause a stall and *poof*
Apr 23 19:31:20 <mdp> so in your case, my question is...can you afford to miss *one* sample
Apr 23 19:31:23 <mdp> ?
Apr 23 19:31:39 <ka6sox-farfarawa> this is why I prefer to use the FPGA solution...its all reduced back to hardware/microcode..
Apr 23 19:31:41 <mdp> in my case, the computer (6502 cpu) crashes ;)
Apr 23 19:31:52 <mdp> ka6sox-farfarawa, infidel!
Apr 23 19:32:02 <mdp> ka6sox-farfarawa, you are no fun at all
Apr 23 19:32:38 <ka6sox-farfarawa> mdp, yes, I find emulators annoying and fraught with their *own* quirks...
Apr 23 19:32:41 <mdp> so yes, pru has a sane set of production use cases
Apr 23 19:33:09 <mdp> note what TI's approved uses for the PRUSS are and you get the idea
Apr 23 19:33:29 <mdp> but you can code to get around that DRAM latency
Apr 23 19:33:29 <mru> approved?
Apr 23 19:33:32 <ka6sox-farfarawa> its not quite *fully* reprogrammable computing...but it is reprogrammable peripherals.
Apr 23 19:33:36 <mdp> mru, blessed?
Apr 23 19:33:39 <ka6sox-farfarawa> mru +1
Apr 23 19:33:57 <ka6sox-farfarawa> mdp, more like DADT
Apr 23 19:34:05 <cmicali> i can probably afford to miss a sample or two actually
Apr 23 19:34:07 <mdp> heh
Apr 23 19:34:17 <ka6sox-farfarawa> (thanks koen for that reference!)
Apr 23 19:34:20 <cmicali> but more error means more post-processing to try to correct
Apr 23 19:34:27 <cmicali> which is a pain in the ass
Apr 23 19:35:00 <mdp> is the common case, people are running data through the pru where there's no stalls on the gathering part..direct shifting..
Apr 23 19:35:14 <mdp> but they need to share data out to the rest of the SoC
Apr 23 19:35:31 <ka6sox-farfarawa> like our JTAG cape
Apr 23 19:35:34 <mdp> that's solved with any number of schemes of ping-ponging in sram, edma, etc. etc.
Apr 23 19:35:49 <mdp> mru has described this before
Apr 23 19:35:55 <cmicali> my current solution is to use both PRUs
Apr 23 19:36:07 <cmicali> one samples and puts into pru ram, the other reads from that and moves to dram
Apr 23 19:36:10 <cmicali> seems to be working OK so far
Apr 23 19:36:13 <mdp> that's what lyren brown does for his atari thing
Apr 23 19:36:18 <mdp> yeah
Apr 23 19:36:55 <mdp> if you needed the other pru you might investigate reserving an edma channel to do the work for you
Apr 23 19:37:05 <mdp> poke it and do something else
Apr 23 19:37:36 <cmicali> i looked into that briefly
Apr 23 19:37:38 <panto> cmicali, what's the b/w you get out of your setup?
Apr 23 19:37:41 <cmicali> but the work to setup the edma controller
Apr 23 19:37:46 <cmicali> scared me off
Apr 23 19:37:49 <mdp> although I've been told that there's "no known use case for having the pru use edma" ;)
Apr 23 19:38:13 <cmicali> panto: haven't optimized yet, but i'm getting about 3mbyte/s (about 1.5MSps 16bit samples)
Apr 23 19:38:16 <mdp> panto, ask me why I find that statement funny?
Apr 23 19:38:20 <panto> there's always the first time :)
Apr 23 19:38:26 <panto> why do you find this funny mdp?
Apr 23 19:38:32 <mdp> panto, http://processors.wiki.ti.com/index.php/PRU_Linux-based_Example_Code#PRU_edmaConfig
Apr 23 19:38:39 <panto> lol
Apr 23 19:38:52 <mdp> yeah, really, I come to work to be amused.
Apr 23 19:40:28 <ka6sox-farfarawa> mdp, better than working at EA or being Bored!@
Apr 23 19:40:59 <panto> ka6sox-farfarawa, working for one EA was pretty awesome
Apr 23 19:41:20 <ka6sox-farfarawa> Electronic Arts?
Apr 23 19:41:27 <panto> embedded alley
Apr 23 19:41:33 <ka6sox-farfarawa> oh. right
Apr 23 19:41:39 <mdp> hehe
Apr 23 19:42:20 <mdp> panto, that was the only time I did x86 kernel work ;)
Apr 23 19:42:22 <ka6sox-farfarawa> someone did a cartoon about EA that had a viking ship...can't find it...it was classic
Apr 23 19:42:34 <mdp> panto, 37 silkwood showers later...I'm ok
Apr 23 19:42:44 <panto> hehe
Apr 23 19:43:16 <ka6sox-farfarawa> mdp,  the younger set won't know what a silkwood shower was...
Apr 23 19:43:33 <mdp> ka6sox-farfarawa, I'm testing their googley skills
Apr 23 19:43:39 <ka6sox-farfarawa> no kidding
Apr 23 19:44:01 <mdp> should be part of the gsoc qualification :P
Apr 23 19:44:23 <Naked_> hello! about the beaglebone black - some spec sheet lists 2x PRU 32-bit RISC CPUs as present on the board as well - are these accessible from linux? can these be programmed to handle some hard realtime stuff? which I/O ports can they access? do they have access to other peripherals on board such as I2C or SPI or similar?
Apr 23 19:45:58 <ka6sox-farfarawa> Naked_, what do you mean "accessable by linux"
Apr 23 19:46:12 <ka6sox-farfarawa> can linux interact with them....yes
Apr 23 19:46:35 <panto> Naked_, yes on all counts, but it's not trivial
Apr 23 19:46:49 <ka6sox-farfarawa> panto, you can't treat them as MMIO?
Apr 23 19:46:52 <Naked_> ka6sox-farfarawa: can the linux upload software to be run by the PRUs, however that is done
Apr 23 19:46:58 <panto> heh
Apr 23 19:47:07 <ka6sox-farfarawa> and Bitbang them?
Apr 23 19:47:12 <cmicali> naked: yes
Apr 23 19:47:14 <panto> ka6sox-farfarawa, you can do that
Apr 23 19:47:15 <cmicali> naked: examples: https://github.com/beagleboard/am335x_pru_package
Apr 23 19:47:16 <ka6sox-farfarawa> Naked_, yes
Apr 23 19:47:22 <panto> you can even access the h/w controller
Apr 23 19:47:23 <cmicali> naked: tutorial: http://blog.boxysean.com/2012/08/12/first-steps-with-the-beaglebone-pru/
Apr 23 19:47:32 <Naked_> thanks!
Apr 23 19:47:35 <panto> sanity of doing it that way not guaranteed
Apr 23 19:47:36 <Naked_> this is great stuff!
Apr 23 19:47:51 <panto> it is, but can't you put some clothes on? this is a family channel
Apr 23 19:47:53 <ka6sox-farfarawa> sanity is never guaranteed.
Apr 23 19:47:55 <Naked_> I've lost my sanity years ago, so don't worry
Apr 23 19:48:18 <ka6sox-farfarawa> think of the Children!
Apr 23 19:48:24 <panto> lol
Apr 23 19:48:59 <ka6sox-farfarawa> now if we could get some people interested in upstreamin PRU support..that would be good.
Apr 23 19:49:52 <panto> ka6sox-farfarawa, we do, but it's a long road
Apr 23 19:49:59 * panto points at mdp 
Apr 23 19:50:10 <ka6sox-farfarawa> panto, I'm going into the office today..I'd like to test your eMMC collision patches
Apr 23 19:50:12 <cmicali> what would upstream support look like, just integration of the UIO driver or something else?
Apr 23 19:50:28 <panto> something completely different
Apr 23 19:50:54 <panto> ka6sox-farfarawa, you'll need to load an override cape from the command line
Apr 23 19:51:00 <Hadaka> okay, one more question - the raspberry pi hardware documentation is behind onerous NDAs and the publicly available documentation is just incomplete and wrong - is the PRU stuff as bad or is good documentation available without signing NDAs?
Apr 23 19:51:01 <panto> there's no camera cape yet
Apr 23 19:51:01 <cmicali> a biztalk style xwindows graphical orchestrator to drag and drop PRU instructions?
Apr 23 19:51:08 <mrpackethead> cmicali: that blog from Seanboxy is'nt really very good
Apr 23 19:51:21 <mrpackethead> as i discovered.
Apr 23 19:51:21 <panto> Hadaka, the PRU docs used to be open
Apr 23 19:51:35 <cmicali> mrpackethead: agree, but haven't found another post that at least lists the instructions 1 by 1 to get the examples to build - got a better one?
Apr 23 19:51:39 <panto> but TI couldn't deal with the support burden so they removed it from the TRM
Apr 23 19:51:46 <panto> but it's not under NDA or anything
Apr 23 19:51:46 <mrpackethead> I have a copy of the old docs
Apr 23 19:51:52 <ka6sox-farfarawa> me too
Apr 23 19:51:53 <panto> they just don't like you to bug them about it
Apr 23 19:52:08 <ka6sox-farfarawa> so that means the "community" gets to support this.
Apr 23 19:52:15 <ka6sox-farfarawa> which is fine :P
Apr 23 19:52:19 <Hadaka> hmmh, well, not ideal but a far cry better than the rpi situation
Apr 23 19:52:22 <panto> ;)
Apr 23 19:52:39 <panto> Hadaka, it's not all bad
Apr 23 19:52:48 <KotH> ka6sox-farfarawa: considering my experience with freescales support, i think the ti support is pretty decent
Apr 23 19:52:49 <ka6sox-farfarawa> Hadaka, better than undocumented and totally unavailable...
Apr 23 19:53:01 <ka6sox-farfarawa> KotH, not complaining mind ya
Apr 23 19:53:02 <mrpackethead> the bbb at $45 has the potential to be a real killer of the PI
Apr 23 19:53:05 <KotH> ka6sox-farfarawa: even if they "refuse" to support you
Apr 23 19:53:05 <panto> I think the community wants to take on PRU completely differently that what TI would do
Apr 23 19:53:34 <ka6sox-farfarawa> panto, I see the PRU as being more like "cores" ala opencores.org
Apr 23 19:53:49 <ka6sox-farfarawa> but the first thing is to make it easy to use.
Apr 23 19:54:04 <panto> we have our ways...
Apr 23 19:54:05 <KotH> ka6sox-farfarawa: sad thing about it is, that freescale actually contacted us, whether we would be willing to use some freescale cpus in our medical products
Apr 23 19:54:07 <ka6sox-farfarawa> I need a core that does *this*
Apr 23 19:54:10 <panto> it's going to take time...
Apr 23 19:54:18 <ka6sox-farfarawa> panto, agreed.
Apr 23 19:54:31 <ka6sox-farfarawa> but the elements can be put into place to make this happen.
Apr 23 19:54:40 <panto> yeah
Apr 23 19:54:48 <panto> PRU is nothing out of the ordinary really
Apr 23 19:55:10 <panto> one could even adapt the PRU model on a normal multicore CPU
Apr 23 19:55:18 <ka6sox-farfarawa> eventually someone will write a simple C compiler for it.
Apr 23 19:55:23 <ka6sox-farfarawa> (if its not already been done)
Apr 23 19:55:26 <panto> pstt, there's already one
Apr 23 19:55:30 <panto> but not public AFAIKT
Apr 23 19:55:36 <ka6sox-farfarawa> figures
Apr 23 19:55:45 <ka6sox-farfarawa> DADT
Apr 23 19:56:23 <cmicali> i would do bad things for that compiler
Apr 23 19:56:45 <panto> ask jkrinder
Apr 23 19:57:39 <Hadaka> I think the PRU stuff is great - there's usually some nook in every project that requires hard realtime - and in 99% of the cases people just slap on a PIC or some arduino or other simple microcontroller - and I hate that!
Apr 23 19:58:01 <cmicali> yeah the PRU is really useful for us
Apr 23 19:58:16 <cmicali> took some time to spin up but has been great
Apr 23 19:58:31 <Hadaka> the real deluxe solution would be to have an FPGA there - but those are proprietary heaven
Apr 23 19:58:42 <panto> they are faster
Apr 23 19:58:44 <ka6sox-farfarawa> Hadaka, why is that?
Apr 23 19:58:58 <ka6sox-farfarawa> I do opensource FPGA
Apr 23 19:59:37 <ka6sox-farfarawa> the PRU can do a lot of good things...and it *should* reduce the need for Linux-RT and Xenomai solutions.
Apr 23 20:00:16 <cmicali> i think the main thing it's missing is a good example of pushing data between linux and the PRU
Apr 23 20:00:24 <cmicali> which you're going to need for most uses of the PRU i'd think
Apr 23 20:00:39 <cmicali> and not just peek/poke a byte but sustained data xfer
Apr 23 20:00:42 <ka6sox-farfarawa> cmicali, is eDMA not good enough?
Apr 23 20:00:47 <panto> cmicali, mdp has the right idea about it
Apr 23 20:00:56 <Hadaka> ka6sox-farfarawa: not sure which part you meant - open source fpga toolchains are practically non-existent (even thought here is one project)
Apr 23 20:00:56 <panto> you have to poke him to let you on it
Apr 23 20:01:16 <cmicali> ka6sox: i don't think the edma example works on the the pru-icss, i believe it was made for the earlier rev of the PRU
Apr 23 20:01:20 <KotH> mdp, the gatekeeper of the PRU
Apr 23 20:02:09 <cmicali> panto: i have my own hack solution, but for others that want to use the PRU on a project I think having a good public example would be very helpful
Apr 23 20:02:20 <mdp> KotH, lol, definitely not..I have no official involvement with it ;)
Apr 23 20:02:30 <cmicali> i could post mine, although i'm probably doing it wrong (and using up a whole PRU in the process)
Apr 23 20:02:38 <panto> cmicali, do it
Apr 23 20:02:46 <mdp> cmicali, and yes, all older examples..I cited only because somebody once mentioned a lack of a use case for that
Apr 23 20:02:48 <ka6sox-farfarawa> mdp, there isn't something official anyways :P
Apr 23 20:02:51 <panto> we're throwing stuff against the wall to see what sticks
Apr 23 20:03:10 <mdp> ka6sox-farfarawa, there are pru gurus...real ones
Apr 23 20:03:27 <ka6sox-farfarawa> mdp, I'm sure there are! just like DSP experts.
Apr 23 20:03:33 <cmicali> panto: i'll post it @ https://github.com/sagedevices/am335x_pru_package when I get this wrapped up and i can make an example out of it.  I added one DDR example in there also, would never have figured that out except for the hipstercircuits blog
Apr 23 20:03:52 <Hadaka> on that note - which bit of hardware would you guys use to get 9 data bit serial on the beaglebone? I don't think the UARTs can handle it - PRU is an option - I've come up with a really hackish way of making it happen with SPI - is there something else?
Apr 23 20:04:17 <mdp> what kind of serial?
Apr 23 20:04:21 <ka6sox-farfarawa> the mcspi can't do 9bit?
Apr 23 20:04:45 <ka6sox-farfarawa> or the uarts...I thought almost everything can do 9 bit...
Apr 23 20:05:07 <Hadaka> TTL is fine
Apr 23 20:05:41 <mdp> ka6sox-farfarawa, it does do lots of word lengths including 9 bit
Apr 23 20:06:04 <mdp> 4-32, to be exact
Apr 23 20:06:40 <Hadaka> can the mcspi be made to trigger on the rising pulse and have its own 9600 baud clock?
Apr 23 20:07:21 <ka6sox-farfarawa> Hadaka, why not?
Apr 23 20:09:19 <Hadaka> ka6sox-farfarawa: the SPI I've come in to contact with either acts a slave and requires an external clock or as a master and is not triggered on rising edge...
Apr 23 20:12:14 <mdp> Hadaka, are those your complete requirements?
Apr 23 20:12:19 <mdp> at first you said, can it do "serial"
Apr 23 20:12:29 <mdp> which is completely devoid of details
Apr 23 20:12:47 <mdp> we don't want to peel this onion for hours
Apr 23 20:14:52 <Hadaka> mdp: hmmh, not sure - I want to talk to a 9-N-1 9600 baud TTL serial line (only rx and tx) via any peripheral capable of doing so
Apr 23 20:15:27 * KotH would use the uart
Apr 23 20:16:04 <panto> uart should work
Apr 23 20:16:08 <panto> 9 bit is no biggie
Apr 23 20:16:10 <Hadaka> uart documentation says 8 data bits - and even though it works on some uarts, I do *not* want to do the hack where I configure the uart to use parity and flip the parity after each byte to fake the 9th data bit
Apr 23 20:16:29 <panto> easily configurable by user-space too
Apr 23 20:18:11 <Hadaka> Programmable serial interface characteristics
Apr 23 20:18:12 <Hadaka> – 5, 6, 7, or 8-bit characters
Apr 23 20:18:18 <Hadaka> am I missing something major?
Apr 23 20:18:29 <PRU_EVTOUT_2> the 9th bit!
Apr 23 20:19:23 <mdp> http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.linux.ports.arm.omap/90566
Apr 23 20:19:23 <Hadaka> PRU_EVTOUT_2: quite so :D
Apr 23 20:19:31 <panto> Hadaka, you're right
Apr 23 20:19:37 <panto> I was counting the parity bit with it
Apr 23 20:19:56 <mdp> panto, *ahem*
Apr 23 20:20:22 <Hadaka> yeah, that's the parity-hack I *don't* want to use - I don't want to flip the parity after sending each byte
Apr 23 20:20:26 <mdp> right
Apr 23 20:20:36 <panto> heh
Apr 23 20:20:47 <panto> well, hardware can do
Apr 23 20:20:49 <ka6sox-farfarawa> Hadaka, is this RS485 1/2 duplex?
Apr 23 20:21:03 <panto> write the missing bits of the linux tty subsystem to enable it :)
Apr 23 20:21:05 <mdp> mcasp
Apr 23 20:21:05 * panto runs 
Apr 23 20:21:26 <ka6sox-farfarawa> heh
Apr 23 20:21:37 <mdp> http://processors.wiki.ti.com/index.php/Soft-UART_Implementation_on_AM335X_PRU_-_Software_Users_Guide
Apr 23 20:21:40 <mdp> just sayin'
Apr 23 20:22:00 <PRU_EVTOUT_2> pru uart is 8 bit too :-\
Apr 23 20:22:07 <mdp> this is not the pru uart
Apr 23 20:22:09 <Hadaka> ka6sox-farfarawa: not RS485, but close
Apr 23 20:22:11 <ka6sox-farfarawa> you can fix that you know :P
Apr 23 20:22:13 <panto> PRU_EVTOUT_2, it's bitbanged
Apr 23 20:22:13 <mdp> wake up!
Apr 23 20:22:37 <mdp> read the words...read all the words...real only F*ing words on the wiki page
Apr 23 20:22:39 <PRU_EVTOUT_2> mdp, that's what the "too" at the end was for. it means "also"
Apr 23 20:22:56 * mdp receives a PRU_EVTOUT_2 interrupt
Apr 23 20:23:04 <mdp> ;)
Apr 23 20:23:10 <panto> mdp, want a snickers bar?
Apr 23 20:23:11 <panto> :)
Apr 23 20:24:48 <Hadaka> hmmh, I get that PRU can do soft uart - that is exactly what I thought to do as well - what I don't get is how McASP is involved...
Apr 23 20:25:19 <cmicali> that softuart code is mindbending
Apr 23 20:25:29 <mdp> Hadaka, pru code drives the mcasp serializers
Apr 23 20:25:56 <mdp> cmicali, haha! this is why "those above" claim that the PRU is too hard for mortals ;)
Apr 23 20:26:43 <cmicali> mdp: i want to meet the author of that code..  if indeed it was a human
Apr 23 20:26:45 <KotH> mdp: anything embedded is too hard for mere mortals
Apr 23 20:27:07 <PRU_EVTOUT_2> pru has like 14 instructions, it's not that bad.
Apr 23 20:27:17 <mdp> unpossible
Apr 23 20:27:19 <PRU_EVTOUT_2> the only bad comes from teh need of a kernel driver to mux any bidir pins.
Apr 23 20:27:33 <mdp> if it's not node.js is too hard
Apr 23 20:27:43 <mdp> "PRU the Hard Way(tm)"
Apr 23 20:27:55 <panto> if it's not shopping, it's way way too hard
Apr 23 20:28:00 <PRU_EVTOUT_2> lol!
Apr 23 20:28:35 <Hadaka> you mean PRU doesn't run node.js?!
Apr 23 20:28:57 <mdp> for those not familiar with "the hard way" http://learncodethehardway.org/
Apr 23 20:28:59 <PRU_EVTOUT_2> it could, you just have to write up a compiler.
Apr 23 20:29:27 <PRU_EVTOUT_2> \/virtual machine
Apr 23 20:29:45 <PRU_EVTOUT_2> i have to say, that IS the way to learn a language.
Apr 23 20:29:49 <ka6sox-farfarawa> Hadaka, Touche`
Apr 23 20:29:49 * mranostay facepalms
Apr 23 20:30:03 <PRU_EVTOUT_2> like learning a spoken language, you jump into the society!
Apr 23 20:30:35 <mdp> +1
Apr 23 20:30:48 <mdp> except latin..you'd have to kill yourself
Apr 23 20:30:49 <KotH> dont forget your dictionary
Apr 23 20:31:08 <PRU_EVTOUT_2> if you already know how to program, you're just learning syntactical/style differences...no need to do anything but read code.
Apr 23 20:31:38 <PRU_EVTOUT_2> err, assuming it's not a huge jump, like procedural to functional.
Apr 23 20:31:42 <KotH> there is a lot more to programming than just style and syntax
Apr 23 20:31:54 <PRU_EVTOUT_2> like what?
Apr 23 20:32:08 <KotH> ways of thinking
Apr 23 20:32:09 <Hadaka> hmmh, I still don't get the McASP stuff - why can't the PRU just "bit bang" a GPIO line itself? - or why can't Linux just use McASP directly if it can do the serialization?
Apr 23 20:32:11 <PRU_EVTOUT_2> they're all turing complete
Apr 23 20:32:16 <KotH> lol
Apr 23 20:32:21 <ka6sox-farfarawa> Hadaka, a Joke it seems.
Apr 23 20:32:23 <PRU_EVTOUT_2> the only difference is the "macros"
Apr 23 20:32:31 <ka6sox-farfarawa> since we  wer throwing out modules to do this with.
Apr 23 20:32:36 <KotH> if your only tool is a turing machine, everything will look like an endless tape
Apr 23 20:32:59 <PRU_EVTOUT_2> i mean there's no one thing that one language can do that another can't
Apr 23 20:33:26 <KotH> PRU_EVTOUT_2: you have not learned enough programming languages then
Apr 23 20:33:34 <ka6sox-farfarawa> KotH, +1
Apr 23 20:33:37 <PRU_EVTOUT_2> why do you say that?
Apr 23 20:33:37 <KotH> PRU_EVTOUT_2: or all just of the c family
Apr 23 20:33:54 <ka6sox-farfarawa> PRU_EVTOUT_2, Hard RT with Javascript
Apr 23 20:33:56 <PRU_EVTOUT_2> i'm speaking for procedural stuff, like i said
Apr 23 20:33:57 <ka6sox-farfarawa> do eeeet
Apr 23 20:34:00 <PRU_EVTOUT_2> not something like functional programming
Apr 23 20:34:28 * ka6sox-farfarawa expects a 5 line JS programme in <10minutes from PRU_EVTOUT_2 
Apr 23 20:34:40 <KotH> there are more than just functional and procedural languages
Apr 23 20:35:06 <Hadaka> ka6sox-farfarawa: I think Soft-UART Implementation on AM335X PRU - Software Users Guide is not a joke in general, though...
Apr 23 20:35:08 <PRU_EVTOUT_2> yes, i know this.
Apr 23 20:35:43 <PRU_EVTOUT_2> verilog is a great example. :) still, just syntactical and concurrency differences
Apr 23 20:35:45 <Hadaka> hard RT with javascript? asm.js
Apr 23 20:35:56 <KotH> lol
Apr 23 20:36:00 <ka6sox-farfarawa> ha!
Apr 23 20:36:01 <Hadaka> http://asmjs.org/
Apr 23 20:36:26 <KotH> PRU_EVTOUT_2: verilog is an example of an dataflow language, which is a bigger difference than just syntax and concurency
Apr 23 20:36:42 <PRU_EVTOUT_2> i disagree.
Apr 23 20:37:00 <PRU_EVTOUT_2> in verilog, you have no "macros"
Apr 23 20:37:18 <ka6sox-farfarawa> sheesh
Apr 23 20:37:26 <KotH> verilog is also a shitty language, compared to beauties like VHDL ;)
Apr 23 20:37:36 <PRU_EVTOUT_2> but, there's no difference in data flow
Apr 23 20:37:36 <ka6sox-farfarawa> VHDL and Ada
Apr 23 20:37:55 * panto waits for a nice emacs vs vi flamewar to erupt any minute now 
Apr 23 20:37:55 <PRU_EVTOUT_2> you just are allowed to not care about it in your high level languages.
Apr 23 20:38:17 <mranostay> DEATH TO THE EMACS USERS!
Apr 23 20:38:24 <mranostay> panto: we can be civil right?
Apr 23 20:38:42 <ka6sox-farfarawa> mranostay, that opening salvo was not Civil....
Apr 23 20:39:06 <panto> he's a punk
Apr 23 20:39:09 <ka6sox-farfarawa> somewhere in the midst of this was a 9 bit serial question.
Apr 23 20:39:25 <mranostay> panto: oh i fogot i had punk hilight in irssi :)
Apr 23 20:39:49 <ka6sox-farfarawa> mranostay, so you could know when people are talking about you?
Apr 23 20:39:59 <ka6sox-farfarawa> (you left yourself open for that)
Apr 23 20:40:25 <mranostay> partly
Apr 23 20:41:11 <ka6sox-farfarawa> okay bbl Ladies and Trolls
Apr 23 20:41:18 <Hadaka> hmmh, I wonder if beaglebone could be a funky OBD2 module...
Apr 23 20:41:50 <ka6sox-away> Hadaka, not funky...doable...
Apr 23 20:43:03 <Hadaka> the thing with OBD2 modules is, all of them support connecting to the ECU, which is a couple well defined pins in the connector - but all car manufacturers have proprietary stuff littered all over the connector and the protocols are different for each pin
Apr 23 20:43:18 <KotH> Hadaka: are you aware that "hadaka" means naked in japanese?
Apr 23 20:43:19 <Hadaka> beaglebone + PRU just might be enough to have most of them accessible directly and bit bang the rest
Apr 23 20:43:32 <Hadaka> KotH: yes, see my nick earlier ;)
Apr 23 20:44:08 <KotH> so ka...
Apr 23 20:44:15 <KotH> hen na shumi
Apr 23 20:44:15 <ka6sox-away> yes
Apr 23 20:44:34 <bruce> pant-o vs naked... fight!
Apr 23 20:45:13 <bruce> (loser has to code a C compiler for PRU, using nothing but EMACS)
Apr 23 20:46:11 * panto flees 
Apr 23 20:48:42 <KotH> zz_ka6sox-away: sleep well
Apr 23 20:53:08 <Shadyman> BAM
Apr 23 20:53:11 <Shadyman> Beaglecapes are here :3
Apr 23 20:53:23 <mranostay> [:-|3
Apr 23 20:55:12 <Shadyman> av500: And they drilled ALL my vias.
Apr 23 21:01:28 <panto> g'night all
Apr 23 21:10:50 <KotH> Shadyman: those with the lea?
Apr 23 21:14:04 <Shadyman> KotH: Neo, but yeah :)
Apr 23 21:14:17 <Shadyman> all 500- or 700-some odd vias
Apr 23 21:14:20 <KotH> newfangled stuff!
Apr 23 21:14:23 <KotH> ;)
Apr 23 21:14:25 <Shadyman> haha
Apr 23 21:14:40 <KotH> -t model?
Apr 23 21:15:08 <Shadyman> no, but it'd take it
Apr 23 21:15:17 <KotH> meh!
Apr 23 21:15:32 <Shadyman> brought out the timepulse and extint0 lines
Apr 23 21:19:12 <Shadyman> got my SD Card Cape, I2C/1-Wire cape and GPS Capes back from the mill
Apr 23 21:28:19 <KotH> Shadyman: apropos.. i stumbled over an interesting appnote regarding blocking c's: http://www.analog.com/static/imported-files/application_notes/AN-1142.pdf
Apr 23 21:28:56 <Shadyman> Neat.
Apr 23 21:29:25 <KotH> er.. decoupling
Apr 23 21:29:36 * KotH should forget german while chatting
Apr 23 21:32:02 <ka6sox> KotH, didyou bail?
Apr 23 21:33:33 <KotH> bail?
Apr 23 21:37:13 <thurbad> bail is kinda 80's slang for leave
Apr 23 21:40:38 <werwer> Do any of you know if BeagleSNES will work with BeagleBoard Black?
Apr 23 21:41:33 <ka6sox> thurbad, thanks...sorry I'm dating myself.
Apr 23 21:41:45 <ka6sox> KotH, I just had to move someplace else.
Apr 23 21:57:37 <werwer> I like turtles
Apr 23 22:05:52 <Gman> hiya
Apr 23 22:06:03 <Gman> any1 ther?
Apr 23 22:25:31 <Mbopi> i have a problem with s-video output on Beagleboard xm .. the output is misaligned. I  test change the resolution but it does not solve the problem
Apr 23 22:27:28 <Mbopi> anybody help me?
Apr 23 22:28:59 <Mbopi> nobody?
Apr 23 22:29:25 <rbarris> see "be patient" at top of chat
Apr 23 23:23:57 <ds2> Hmmm
Apr 23 23:25:00 <ka6sox> ummmmmmmmmmmmm
Apr 23 23:26:34 <ds2> esc is sure tiny
Apr 23 23:30:28 <mdp> ds2, I recall when ESC, by itself, was still huge
Apr 23 23:30:38 <mranostay> morning
Apr 23 23:31:07 <ds2> mdp: yes, so do I. I walked all the exhibits there in like an hour
Apr 23 23:31:14 <mdp> wow
Apr 23 23:31:36 <mdp> yeah, I recall being at Moto and it moved from SJCC to Moscone..couldn't fit down in SJCC
Apr 23 23:31:45 <mdp> then shrunk back down during a down cycle
Apr 23 23:32:15 <ds2> before, it used to overflow into the outside of the exhibit hall
Apr 23 23:32:31 <ds2> now there is nothing outside the hall, the aisles are still wide and I see empty booths
Apr 23 23:32:39 <mdp> ahh yes, I remember it was unseasonably warm..they had tents ouside SJCC
Apr 23 23:32:43 <ds2> and not many vendors there either
Apr 23 23:32:47 <mdp> it was ~100F the one day
Apr 23 23:33:26 <mdp> hrm
Apr 23 23:33:40 <mranostay> talking about the good olde days?
Apr 23 23:33:55 <mdp> ds2, have you done much FSL stuff? and been to FTF (or before that SNDF)?
Apr 23 23:34:54 <ds2> mdp: only a tiny bit.... never got a chance to goto FTF as the TI parts seemed better for most stuff
Apr 23 23:35:26 <ds2> I wonder what happened to the TI tech days or the 430 days
Apr 23 23:35:46 <mdp> being on the networking end of the spectrum..I started at SNDFs..those were inside moto..then after the spin out it became FTF
Apr 23 23:35:58 <mdp> but they had some serious friggin bux in those marketing cons
Apr 23 23:36:14 <mdp> and the partner ecosystem was huge..so it was like being at an ESC..*everybody* was there
Apr 23 23:36:36 <mranostay> *buzzword alert*
Apr 23 23:36:43 <mdp> yes
Apr 23 23:37:00 <ds2> so you started out as a PPC guy?
Apr 23 23:37:21 <mdp> well, not every conference has a private concert headlining with the Barenaked Ladies, for example
Apr 23 23:37:25 <mdp> FTF spend a lot of bux
Apr 23 23:37:33 <mdp> and an open bar with unlimited scotch ;)
Apr 23 23:37:53 <mdp> speaker from the apollo 13 mission signing novels
Apr 23 23:38:15 <mdp> I wish I saw the number from that show budget ;)
Apr 23 23:38:48 <ds2> didn't TI had a competing invite only event?
Apr 23 23:40:23 <mdp> ds2, I didn't do TI then..they only had crap ;)
Apr 23 23:40:36 <mdp> ds2, amazing how it sounds from the other side, right?
Apr 23 23:41:59 <ds2> yep
Apr 23 23:53:56 <infoUser> so atleast one distributor lists the ship time for the new Beaglebone Black as 1 week after order... is this a pipedream?
Apr 24 00:03:14 <mranostay> you dream of pipes?
Apr 24 00:09:28 <intrigue> infoUser: what distributor?
Apr 24 00:09:39 <intrigue> I went to order one from element 14 and it was > 6 weeks out
Apr 24 00:11:11 <mranostay> never  trust distributor lead times! :)
Apr 24 00:11:21 <mranostay> they will lie to get you to order
Apr 24 00:11:44 <intrigue> as long as it doesnt turn in to rasp pi times -- though i doubt it
Apr 24 00:12:00 <intrigue> i got my rasp pi in ~6 weeks after they came out -- other people @ work waited months and months
Apr 24 00:21:06 <robtow> Digikey said my order would ship April 25. We'll see.  8-)
Apr 24 00:32:59 <yangbo> Hi there. When I connect my beaglebone to pc using an ethernet cable and a USB. I cannot see the bone ip address, do you know what the problem is?
Apr 24 00:33:02 <yangbo> usb0      Link encap:Ethernet  HWaddr a2:33:6a:97:df:6d           BROADCAST MULTICAST  MTU:1500  Metric:1           RX packets:0 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0           TX packets:0 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0           collisions:0 txqueuelen:1000           RX bytes:0 (0.0 B)  TX bytes:0 (0.0 B)
Apr 24 01:14:58 <ka6sox> yangbo needs to learn patience of grasshopper.
Apr 24 01:57:40 <Shadyman> KotH: I also shoehorned a flash-less, battery-less NEO6 into an Xbee footprint
Apr 24 01:58:38 <Shadyman> battery is pinned out, and accessible off-board, but there was no way in heck I could route that EEPROM and still be able to adhere to high-frequency limitations
Apr 24 02:02:48 <Shadyman> KotH: http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e94/MasterMWL/GPS_Bee_zps18381c8a.png http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e94/MasterMWL/GPS_Bee2_zps4d3023cd.png
Apr 24 02:31:28 <tklun> Hey everyone, has anyone ordered a Beagle Board from Special Computing before?
Apr 24 02:33:43 <mranostay> yeah i probably have
Apr 24 02:33:46 <mranostay> why?
Apr 24 02:34:12 <tklun> Hey, there are just far more reputable looking sites out there.
Apr 24 02:34:50 <tklun> They're linked to from beagleboard.org so I'm sure they're pretty legit. Just was looking for a sanity check.
Apr 24 02:37:44 <mranostay> tklun: well if you pay with PayPal you are pretty safe anyway
Apr 24 02:38:07 <tklun> Smart, I didn't see that option though.
Apr 24 02:39:29 <mranostay> tklun: credit card is safe as well :)
Apr 24 02:39:32 <mranostay> at least in the US
Apr 24 02:40:03 <tklun> They're like the only place that isn't sold out of Beagle Board Black. Probably because they look so sketchy.
Apr 24 02:41:42 <g4hsean> hello everyone
Apr 24 02:41:52 <tklun> Hi
Apr 24 02:42:34 <g4hsean> would anyone happen to know how to access the AIN0-7 pins for a beaglebone running angstrom newest release?
Apr 24 02:43:11 <mranostay> tklun: well we know the guy that runs the site :)
Apr 24 02:43:29 <g4hsean> I looked in the /sys/ folders and ran a search for anything AIN related and found nothing. Its not layed out like it used to be
Apr 24 02:43:51 <tklun> Ha, good enough for me. Thanks mranostay.
Apr 24 02:44:07 <ds2> we do?
Apr 24 02:44:09 <ds2> :D
Apr 24 02:44:37 <tklun> Ha
Apr 24 02:45:19 <Shadyman> tklun: Though, "everybody" would have to be IN stock before being OUT of stock ;)
Apr 24 02:45:20 <mranostay> ds2: sssh i need the credit card numbers :P
Apr 24 02:45:33 <Shadyman> tklun: Production's just ramping up.
Apr 24 02:45:49 <tklun> Shadyman, good point… Well, it says they have some available to ship on 4/30.
Apr 24 02:45:59 <tklun> The other places aren't even taking orders.
Apr 24 02:46:16 <Shadyman> tklun: http://www.makershed.com/BeagleBoard_BeagleBone_Black_p/mkcce3.htm
Apr 24 02:46:40 <tklun> https://specialcomp.com/beaglebone/
Apr 24 02:46:55 <tklun> Thanks for the tip
Apr 24 02:47:03 <mrpacket_> https://specialcomp.com/beaglebone/ <--- is this legit?
Apr 24 02:47:26 <Shadyman> Feasibility Evaluation Only? Wat
Apr 24 02:47:44 <tklun> Yeah...
Apr 24 02:47:58 <Stolen_Goods> They have to see if the concept is feasible.
Apr 24 02:49:11 <Stolen_Goods> Whether that means I can get one or not...
Apr 24 02:49:14 <Stolen_Goods> :|
Apr 24 02:49:44 <vvu|Mobile> any link for bbblack in germany ?
Apr 24 02:50:03 <tklun> maybe i'll stick with MakerShed. I got enough stuff to mess iwth in the meantime
Apr 24 02:53:00 <Stolen_Goods> Well, specialcomp is listed under the official distributors list...
Apr 24 02:53:12 <tklun> Yep
Apr 24 02:53:32 <tklun> They also have white label version. Is that like their own generic version built off the schematic?
Apr 24 02:53:43 <Stolen_Goods> I can't vouch for their integrity, however. Or their web design.
Apr 24 02:54:12 <tklun> =)
Apr 24 02:55:03 <Stolen_Goods> Just, that plain white background and early web 2.0 layout...
Apr 24 02:55:17 <Stolen_Goods> Brrr.
Apr 24 02:55:35 <Stolen_Goods> Seems the only option, at any rate.
Apr 24 02:57:03 <tklun> If it ships in a week...
Apr 24 02:58:13 <tklun> I kind of wonder if that number static.
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Wed Apr 24 02:59:58 2013