**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon May 06 02:59:58 2013
May 06 03:00:59 <m_billybob> Galt, which kernel areyou upgrading to ? I had to do a opkg --force-overwrite install kernel-image-3.8.8
May 06 03:01:05 <ptan> Galt: yeah, a 5V 2.5A PSU would be more than enough power...
May 06 03:01:11 <Galt> I am using a router as my wifi connection, and I am plugged into the boards Ethernet port. I can access the web fine!
May 06 03:01:22 <Galt> I will try that thanks, let me see what happens.
May 06 03:01:55 <m_billybob> btw i did a netupgrade and everythign seems perfectly fine
May 06 03:02:13 <m_billybob> i got a heads up from a person i know on another device embedded forum . . .
May 06 03:02:14 <ptan> Galt: m_billybob might be right, I'm waiting for the dust to settle before I upgrade my BBB
May 06 03:03:11 <m_billybob> ptan that "unclean" install method is supposed to be fixed in 3.8.11 but no idea if thatmeans once you've upgrade future upgrades will work or if you can upgrade to that version and not have to do it . .
May 06 03:03:12 <ptan> m_billybob: glad to know upgrades actually work without much fuss
May 06 03:03:37 <m_billybob> i saw mention of it on the mailign lists either way
May 06 03:03:47 <Galt> I just tried the kernel force overwrite, and: WARNING: could not open /lib/modules/3.8.8/modules.order: No such file or directory
May 06 03:03:57 <ptan> m_billybob: so you upgraded to 3.8.8 instead of 3.8.11?
May 06 03:04:13 <m_billybob> ptan i upgrade priot to .11
May 06 03:04:21 <m_billybob> upgraded prior*
May 06 03:04:34 <m_billybob> by liek a day
May 06 03:04:53 <m_billybob> was told .10 was sort of hokie so i avoided it
May 06 03:04:58 <ptan> m_billybob: I'll wait a week or two before trying ;)
May 06 03:05:15 <ptan> m_billybob: should Galt upgrade to .11?
May 06 03:05:57 <Galt> I just gave .11 a go, lets see what happens, lol!
May 06 03:06:05 <m_billybob> i honestly dont know. im kind of new myself, and my linux is rusty. if he has a sd card and knows how to use it to fix said issues I dotn see what harm can come of it aside from list time
May 06 03:06:27 <m_billybob> lost time*
May 06 03:06:35 <ptan> Galt: ok, you're the lab rat on this one.. ;)
May 06 03:07:06 <Galt> Same thing as before, no such file or directory in my /lib/modules/3.8.11/modules.builtin:
May 06 03:07:12 <m_billybob> Galt, possibly that could be because update spotted 3.8.11 so yeah like i said im new to angstrom myself
May 06 03:07:44 <m_billybob> Galt uname -a whats it say ?
May 06 03:08:06 <ptan> Galt: same here, new to angstrom, used to ubuntu/debian, doesn't look like any angstrom gurus are online.
May 06 03:08:19 <Galt> That okay, I'm new to Angstrom, I know my way around Debian pretty well for the time I have been using it. I love linux, and I switched a year or so ago from Win
May 06 03:08:37 <m_billybob> yeah i want to switch to debian myself CPI only with LAMP etc, but seems like angstrom is very similar to debian
May 06 03:08:43 <levi> Angstrom is kind of debianish in flavor.
May 06 03:08:46 <m_billybob> CLI only*
May 06 03:09:11 <ptan> I gave up on M$ 5 years ago and converted all my file server to Ubuntu from W2K3
May 06 03:09:28 <ptan> s/server/server(s)/
May 06 03:09:31 <m_billybob> i've been reading about it and trying to make a decission. as i said the filesystem is very similar to debian atleast. well directory structure anyhow
May 06 03:09:59 <m_billybob> I still use windows for desktop machines
May 06 03:10:08 <Galt> yes it is! I've tried most of the different os's on the beagleboard site, and they all boot, but no useful gui yet. Fluxbox works, but won't load any programs. I'll just have to wait for a while and let the real linux gurus do their thing!
May 06 03:10:10 <levi> It's a descendant of OpenZaurus, which was initially Debian.
May 06 03:11:03 <m_billybob> ntp server seems to be failing, not sure why. got a cron job listed . . . timezone setup .  .still nto working
May 06 03:11:06 <levi> It then developed its own smaller packaging tools, though it continued to follow Debian conventions.
May 06 03:11:33 <levi> It later got reused for projects like OpenWRT and other PDAs, and got renamed OpenEmbedded.
May 06 03:11:34 <m_billybob> levi, would i be correct that opkg is basically a smaller version of apt ? or similar ?
May 06 03:11:41 <Galt> I like the ease of the "setup_sdcard.sh" scrip, it makes burning the img to the sd card easy
May 06 03:11:56 <xterm91> Galt: Have you gotten Android to work?
May 06 03:12:02 <levi> It's not exactly like apt, it's sort of like dpkg+a bit of apt.
May 06 03:12:50 <Galt> Gota go take my dog for a walk, I'll think on this. I tried the Android, and yes, I made a mistake, I could make the disk, but it didn't boot. That was the only one that doesn't work. I want that os though!!!
May 06 03:12:57 <m_billybob> levi, oh cool, now i just need to figure out whcih packages are safe to remove :/ anyone know of a list ?
May 06 03:13:12 <xterm91> Galt: If you get it to work please let me know...
May 06 03:13:37 <m_billybob> been googling and reading havent really found a good refference to remove packages
May 06 03:14:21 <m_billybob> or hmm a known workign cli only ( with LAMP ) image would be good too
May 06 03:14:22 <Galt> Absolutely, this will be the first place I go to say anything!!!! I know that people are salivating to use jellybean on this puppy!
May 06 03:14:45 <Galt> gotta go for a few, be back soon
May 06 03:14:48 <levi> OpenEmbedded spawned a device-agnostic distro named Angstrom, and more recently it got its build and packaging system rebuilt to be even more device/distro agnostic.  It's now based on OE-Core/Yocto and a layer system for adding hardware support packages, distribution policy, application packages, etc.
May 06 03:15:16 <m_billybob> not so much here. from a technical perspective android would be cool, but personally i have no use for it
May 06 03:15:32 <m_billybob> levi, was that for me ?
May 06 03:16:00 <levi> m_billybob: The safest way to get a clean, minimal image would be to get the Angstrom build system installed and use it to specify exactly what you want in the image.
May 06 03:16:05 <xterm91> I have heat issues in the summer time and am looking for a very low power media streaming device. Android just seems to foot the bill
May 06 03:16:10 <galactic> hmm
May 06 03:16:14 <m_billybob> openembedded / Yocto i know of, but do not know how to use either
May 06 03:17:01 <levi> xterm91: Android is actually pretty poor at being a streaming server or anything other than a phone/tablet.
May 06 03:17:06 <m_billybob> levi, sorry for being so dense, but "build system" could you poitn me to a specific ?
May 06 03:17:14 <xterm91> Yes but it has the capability of streaming netflix
May 06 03:17:23 <xterm91> Which most of the other options don't
May 06 03:17:24 <m_billybob> dont mind reading and learning but i feel lost :(
May 06 03:18:51 <m_billybob> im thinking Yocto/openembedded but meh sttep learnign curve at least last I looked a few years back
May 06 03:18:53 <levi> http://www.angstrom-distribution.org/building-angstrom
May 06 03:19:07 <xterm91> levi: What would you recommend for media streaming?
May 06 03:19:10 <m_billybob> levi, thanks much will take a good long look
May 06 03:19:21 <levi> xterm91: A Roku. :)
May 06 03:19:22 <galactic> i have problems with using beaglebone black. after finishing booting with hdmi , mouse and keyboard don't work at all. what should i do for solving this problem?
May 06 03:20:16 <levi> galactic: You might try seeing if the USB modules corresponding to your keyboard and mouse are loaded (after you ssh in from a computer with a working keyboard and mouse)
May 06 03:20:28 <xterm91> levi: I've heard that the Roku has issues playing Netflix in HD and I'm curious about the extensibility of it to other streaming services
May 06 03:20:48 <galactic> hmm
May 06 03:21:06 <galactic> ok
May 06 03:21:34 <levi> galactic: You might also try unplugging them and re-plugging them.
May 06 03:21:49 <xterm91> Does anyone else have issues with plugging in USB devices post-boot?
May 06 03:22:19 <levi> xterm91: Well, just about every new TV and bluray player will stream Netflix too.  Plus the XBox360, PS3, etc.
May 06 03:22:44 <levi> xterm91: If I was going to build a custom media front-end box, I'd probably use one of the intel NUCs.
May 06 03:23:09 <m_billybob> guess ill be setting up another linnux box
May 06 03:23:13 <m_billybob> or VM
May 06 03:24:10 <levi> I have a lot of Windows PCs at home, but I only do development on Linux if I can help it.
May 06 03:24:37 <xterm91> Windows is a beautiful development platform :P
May 06 03:25:04 <galactic> both keyboard and mouse  work well after rebooting -.-
May 06 03:25:16 <m_billybob> only real development ive done is on widnows using gcc-msp430 crossdev tools
May 06 03:25:40 <m_billybob> well aside fro mthe standard C/C++/C# windows thigns i mean
May 06 03:26:49 <xterm91> winddk+windbg... love at first sight
May 06 03:27:09 <m_billybob> levi, not your fault in the least, but that page has broken links pointing to pertinent information. le sigh, anyhow now i know which tool i need to use
May 06 03:28:08 <m_billybob> I did find some debian how to's a couple anyhow for the bbb
May 06 03:28:20 <m_billybob> guess ill just have to dive in blindly until i get it
May 06 03:30:24 <m_billybob> xterm i like a lot of the GNU tools, but *love* VS too bad neither works wel lwith one another "out of the box". it's liek a never ending vicuous circle, learn more, so you can keep leanring more about the thigns that get you where you need to be, but dont want/need to learn
May 06 03:32:11 <m_billybob> so . . . I just use code::blocks and hack the tools in :/
May 06 03:34:50 <xterm91> I think Levi might have sold me on a roku...
May 06 03:39:45 <levi> m_billybob: I am going through the process right now, let me capture the commands I used from my history...
May 06 03:40:12 <m_billybob> levi, soudns good :) thanks
May 06 03:52:44 <levi> git clone git://github.com/Angstrom-distribution/setup-scripts.git
May 06 03:52:51 <levi> cd setup-scripts/
May 06 03:53:25 <levi> git checkout -b angstrom-v2012.12-yocto1.3 origin/angstrom-v2012.12-yocto1.3
May 06 03:53:36 <levi> MACHINE=beaglebone ./oebb.sh config beaglebone
May 06 03:53:45 <levi> . ~/.oe/environment-angstrom
May 06 03:54:10 <levi> MACHINE=beaglebone bitbake <image name>
May 06 03:54:49 <levi> Where <image name> is something like systemd-image, for a minimal subset of what comes on the beaglebone
May 06 03:56:02 <m_billybob> ok cool
May 06 03:56:24 <m_billybob> not too familiar with git, butthats somethign ive been needing to work on for a while now
May 06 03:56:27 <levi> If you do everything up to the bitbake command, you can look in sources/meta-ti/recipes-misc/images/ for the rules to build the beaglebone-specific images.
May 06 03:56:59 * m_billybob makes a txt file
May 06 03:57:14 <levi> The git clone command will make a local copy of a git repository.  The git checkout command will switch the branch that the local repository is viewing.
May 06 03:57:37 <m_billybob> yeah I figured as much
May 06 03:57:48 <levi> That particular checkout command switches to a branch in the "origin" repository and makes a local branch that follows the remote one.
May 06 03:58:02 <levi> The "origin" repository being the one you cloned from.
May 06 03:58:16 <m_billybob> ive been up to my chin in documentation for like the last 6 months, so been avoiding what i could, but i do need to get to know git
May 06 03:58:48 <levi> Yeah, git is pretty indispensable these days, even if it's not your primary VCS.
May 06 03:59:36 <m_billybob> ive the experience with SVN, but typically i have been avoinding repository type tools. dont really know SVN all tha twell either
May 06 03:59:43 <m_billybob> may as well switch to git :)
May 06 04:00:48 <m_billybob> levi, but yes, looking over those "blog" type posts on gettign debian on the bbb,  what you've pasted there has cleared a few question up that ive had. much thanks and most helpful :)
May 06 04:01:28 <m_billybob> still dont know which distro we want to go with. we're most familiar wirth debian
May 06 04:01:44 <m_billybob> im willing to give angstrom a shot though
May 06 04:02:09 <m_billybob> seems to be the path of least resistance
May 06 04:10:22 <levi> TI has a team that manages an OE layer for their devices, so OE-based distros can get all of their kernel patches and whatnot that way.
May 06 04:11:32 <levi> You can manage your own software packages, kernel config tweaks, etc. in your own layer as well, which allows you to keep them separate from upstream-managed things.
May 06 04:11:42 <levi> This makes porting your changes to new versions of things much easier.
May 06 04:12:46 <m_billybob> seems that TI is usually very good with tools for their products.
May 06 04:12:58 <m_billybob> this is what ive experienced so far anyhow
May 06 04:13:19 <levi> Well, yes, they are better than many.
May 06 04:13:31 <m_billybob> noticed a long time back they seemed to get a workign version of android for the sitara core processors fairly quickly
May 06 04:14:16 <levi> Working with TI has its ups and downs, but they share the downs with most big companies.
May 06 04:16:31 <m_billybob> being an embedded device hobbyist ( mostly programmer ) ive looked around at many devices on the market, and while TI isnt perfect, id wager they are probably one of if not the best with support. tools docs, etc
May 06 04:17:02 <m_billybob> they do some thigns that boggle my mind too but heh, thats another story
May 06 04:17:09 <levi> At work, I've been working with Pandaboards and also with a board designed in-house with a TI Jacinto (like an automotive version of an OMAP).
May 06 04:17:51 <m_billybob> so you do this professionally then
May 06 04:18:19 <levi> Yes, but the beaglebone stuff I'm doing is a hobby. :)
May 06 04:19:37 <m_billybob> the bbb is goign to be a big step forme i think. im rusty with linux, and its a new type of software platform. meaning the msp430 where ive spent most of my time in the last few months has no OS . . . so yeah. I think once i figure out the software that i need, i may have to write a fewof my own kernel modules, whcih i know very little about, but do have a good book on the subject
May 06 04:20:14 * [1]segfault dances i got all 11 of my BB flashed
May 06 04:20:20 <[1]segfault> 0 problems
May 06 04:20:32 <[1]segfault> 7 BB and 4 BBB
May 06 04:20:40 <m_billybob> maybe might need a new mindset too. like with the msp430, using the hardware periphs is usually the best way to get thigns done. not sure abotu that on the bbb
May 06 04:21:15 <levi> Their Pandaboard support started out very impressive, but things seemed to get very disorganized over time, and then TI decided to get out of the tablet/smartphone market and decimated their staff for supporting OMAP processors like the one in Pandaboard.
May 06 04:21:48 <m_billybob> ah yeah i read about that, was wondering what it would bode for the beaglebone stuff
May 06 04:22:05 <levi> Sitara is actually an industrial part, which is where they want to focus.
May 06 04:22:22 <m_billybob> yeah
May 06 04:22:51 <levi> So I think support for beaglebone is likely to continue. It helps that despite its complexity, it's vastly simpler than the OMAP parts.
May 06 04:23:32 <m_billybob> but when they stated that, sicne i knew little abotu the different platforms i assumed it would have somethign to do with the beagleboards. thankfully i was wrong I think the beagleboards are probably the best platforms in their class. if not, i still feel that way about them
May 06 04:23:54 <m_billybob> i have zero love for the rpi
May 06 04:24:08 <m_billybob> havent touched one, and probably never will
May 06 04:24:14 <m_billybob> not after what ive been reading
May 06 04:24:25 <trip9> does anyone know if gpu acceleration is achievable on the beaglebone with the 3.8.x kernel?
May 06 04:24:45 <levi> The original beagleboards have OMAPs, and fairly old ones at that. I imagine TI is going to focus more on the Sitara-based beaglebones.
May 06 04:24:56 <m_billybob> trip9, no idea but id love to get coin mining working on one, jus tfor the hell of it
May 06 04:25:05 <trip9> lol
May 06 04:25:18 <trip9> i don't imagine it would mine bitcoins very fast
May 06 04:25:21 <m_billybob> .0000001MH/s for the win !
May 06 04:25:27 <m_billybob> no it wouldnt
May 06 04:25:36 <trip9> but it could make a decent dlna-player
May 06 04:25:40 <m_billybob> with a FPGA cape now, that'd be a different story
May 06 04:25:46 <trip9> haha
May 06 04:25:47 <levi> trip9: If by gpu acceleration you mean 3d graphics, then probably yes.
May 06 04:25:50 <trip9> that'd be slick
May 06 04:26:01 <trip9> levi, specifically the pvr drivers
May 06 04:26:07 <m_billybob> trip9, looking at the list someone seems to be working on a spartan 6 cape too .  ..
May 06 04:27:26 <trip9> ooo
May 06 04:28:27 <m_billybob> im not terribly "up" on the diferent spartan FPGA, but the LX150 is it ? can do !95MH/s
May 06 04:28:38 <m_billybob> ~95MH/s
May 06 04:29:03 <trip9> hmm, 95MH/s doesn't seem like a lot.
May 06 04:29:26 <m_billybob> 4 + together though .  ..at a fraction of the power cost of a dedicated GPU.
May 06 04:29:51 <m_billybob> one problem though is that the price per FPGA is aroudn $175 US
May 06 04:30:39 <m_billybob> anyhow i wouldnt do it for the money really, just would do it, to just do it
May 06 04:30:43 <m_billybob> for the geek factor
May 06 04:31:42 <m_billybob> you can buy an ASIC now days for ~$300 -> 5GH/s
May 06 04:31:57 <m_billybob> well ASIC based bitminer
May 06 04:32:46 <m_billybob> by the time they'll ship ( they're probably seriously backordered ) difficulty will probably be skyhigh
May 06 04:35:03 <m_billybob> levi, so once i get a minimal install going, should be fairly standard to get a LAMP working, and the bonescript stuff id imagine ?
May 06 04:35:33 <m_billybob> e.g. opkg install <lamp-package-name> etc
May 06 04:35:57 <rbarris> keep an eye on free space in your onboard flash..
May 06 04:37:37 <m_billybob> was noticing standard install that comes with the bbb is ~1.6G, i need no where near that mcuh, well technically i guess its not standard sicne ive since upraded to 3.8.8
May 06 04:37:43 <levi> If you want bonescript, the recipe for it is in sources/meta-ti/recipes-misc/payload/bonescript.bb
May 06 04:38:54 <levi> It's included in the cloud9-image recipe, which can be found in sources/meta-ti/recipes-misc/images/cloud9-image.bb
May 06 04:38:57 <m_billybob> it seems to be useful, could use i2c SPI and UART on it, but meh. it's "free"
May 06 04:39:08 <m_billybob> do i really need cloud 9 ?
May 06 04:40:12 <levi> I'm not sure how integrated bonescript is with it.
May 06 04:40:25 <levi> The build recipe in meta-ti depends on cloud9.
May 06 04:40:37 <m_billybob> hmm ok
May 06 04:41:02 <levi> It shouldn't be terribly heavy, since it runs on nodejs and so does bonescript.
May 06 04:41:07 <m_billybob> maybe i could hack my way out of it if needed, but ill worry aboutthat later
May 06 04:41:08 <m_billybob> yeah
May 06 04:46:38 <levi> BTW, if your distro installs texinfo 5, it will save you some pain to downgrade it to texinfo 4 before you try building the angstrom stuff.
May 06 04:47:27 <m_billybob> so noted, and added to my text file of refference :)
May 06 04:48:18 <m_billybob> once i get good at this i may write an updated blog on it. if it wont help anyone else, atleast i can use it myself for future refference
May 06 04:48:44 <levi> For some reason, texinfo 5 changed some stuff in its parser, so gcc and binutils fail to build their documentation.
May 06 04:49:22 <m_billybob> hate it when that happens
May 06 04:50:05 <levi> Also, note that you will want to have around 30Gb or so of free space available. The system builds a cross-toolchain, kernel, etc and doesn't delete any of its intermediate work products by default.
May 06 04:50:08 <m_billybob> but been playign with FOSS for years now. come to learn the less you upgrade build tools of this nature, often the better off you are
May 06 04:51:23 <m_billybob> starting to sound like i may want to dedicate my second laptop forthis purpose. similar to android in resources needed
May 06 04:52:05 <m_billybob> levi, any idea the size of the repos that i'll need for minimal ?
May 06 04:52:46 <m_billybob> 5-6GB perhaps ? only reason why i ask is our internet is kind of limited
May 06 04:53:21 <m_billybob> will have to setup some form of rate limiting if its larger than a few hundred megabytes
May 06 04:56:40 <levi> I don't recall how big the source packages are... not too big.
May 06 04:56:57 <ds2> hmmm
May 06 04:57:38 <MH> 434mb for the angstrom image, if this is what your lookin for
May 06 04:57:49 <m_billybob> cool thanks
May 06 04:57:53 <levi> You shouldn't have any problem.  The space explosion is due to the fact that source code compresses well, and then you have all the .o files, and then the binaries, and then the packages, and then the unpacked-packages in system directories, etc.
May 06 05:02:36 <levi> There are some options to instruct it to clean up after itself as it goes.
May 06 05:03:06 <m_billybob> where is the best place for clear documentation on the matter ?
May 06 05:03:37 <m_billybob> ive foudn lots of stuff but most of it seem cryptic to me well not all of it but parts
May 06 05:04:24 <levi> Oh, those setup scripts include the "rm_work" option already, so it won't take up so much disk space.
May 06 05:04:34 <m_billybob> cool
May 06 05:05:40 <m_billybob> i dotn really mind though space isnt too much of a problem i have 1.5TB in this laptop, 500 on the other with an additional 120GB drive if i decided to go bare metal Linnux on that machine
May 06 05:05:41 <levi> I would recommend going to www.yoctoproject.org and reading at least the Quick Start Guide.
May 06 05:06:17 <levi> Angstrom adds a bit on top of it with their setup scripts, but the core stuff is the same.
May 06 05:06:46 <m_billybob> read some of that several months ago
May 06 05:07:33 <m_billybob> ive aleways been facsinated with embedded linux. started reading about openembedded a few years back. 2-3
May 06 05:08:40 <av500> ahoi
May 06 05:08:45 <levi> Yeah, embedded linux is fun stuff.
May 06 05:09:25 <levi> Until recently, I was doing mostly QNX and some small RTOS systems at work.
May 06 05:10:05 <levi> When QNX was sold to RIM, it got really hard to work with them.
May 06 05:10:12 <m_billybob> last 6 months or so ive been goign without an OS. have always had the want to do some linnux development but never have.
May 06 05:10:43 <m_billybob> linux <--- no idea why i keep typing two N's
May 06 05:10:57 <m_billybob> busy fingers i guess
May 06 05:16:35 <jarrettv> anybody vpn to bbb?
May 06 07:22:03 <rob_w> hi can someone enlight shortly about .dtb file trees and why/what i want them for ?
May 06 07:24:12 <rob_w> well never mind ..
May 06 07:24:39 <av500> google might
May 06 07:24:52 <av500> you want them to keep Linux happy
May 06 07:25:24 <rob_w> yeah i figured taht ..
May 06 07:25:41 <rob_w> though the beaglbone one seems tobe rather empty
May 06 07:25:55 <av500> ?
May 06 07:25:56 <rob_w> at least the resulting /proc/device-tree/*
May 06 07:26:35 <yegorich> rob_w: https://groups.google.com/d/msg/linux.kernel/d93Afd_ZhLE/ft_pLaiVidsJ
May 06 07:27:09 <rob_w> yegorich, thx
May 06 07:27:32 <solrize> so what happens if i plug the bbb into my laptop by usb?  i know it appears as a file system but can i then set it as a usb network gadget and boot it and talk tcp/ip to it?
May 06 07:29:00 <Russ> yegorich, not saying the post is wrong, but I don't think I've seen so much misinformation in one post
May 06 07:29:43 <rob_w> Russ, what is your point of view of this topic ?
May 06 07:30:04 <Russ> that DT is a necessary evil, and not a panacea
May 06 07:30:45 <av500> solrize: yes you can
May 06 07:31:14 <av500> yegorich: omg, lkcl and I had no coffee yet
May 06 07:31:17 <av500> you are cruel
May 06 07:32:40 <Russ> also, his "how the bloody hell do you represent in DT" is easy, its a radio, if your hardware is that screwed up, move detection to user space
May 06 07:33:18 <yegorich> @av500: I know. A little bit trolling on Mo ;-)
May 06 07:33:27 <Russ> and he doesn't seem aware of advances that have been made in the kernel since, say 2.4
May 06 07:33:39 <koen> Russ: it's lkcl
May 06 07:33:55 <Russ> I haven't come across lkcl
May 06 07:34:12 <koen> be happy about that
May 06 07:34:44 <Russ> at least when rmk rants about DT he actually knows what he's talking about
May 06 07:35:07 <av500> Russ: well, in contrast to rmk, lkcl knows *everything*
May 06 07:35:15 <Russ> oh right
May 06 07:35:34 <Russ> he forgot to mention that samsung laptop where the made a rev and a driver that worked on the previous version now bricked the hardware
May 06 07:35:42 <Russ> damn those arm platforms
May 06 07:36:15 <Russ> er, they made
May 06 07:36:43 <Russ> don't mention to him the possibility of DT making its way over to x86, ok?
May 06 07:37:08 * rob_w runs away from the discussion he started 
May 06 07:38:40 <solrize> av500, cool, thanks
May 06 08:28:28 <mrpackethead> so, we found another FPGA board
May 06 08:28:33 <mrpackethead> the Logi-bone
May 06 08:30:56 * Shadyman squints
May 06 08:31:02 <Shadyman> Highly illogical.
May 06 08:31:08 * Shadyman puts on shades.
May 06 08:31:10 <Shadyman> YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAH
May 06 08:38:09 <netseal> beep beep
May 06 08:41:51 <netseal> I found a problem with beagleboard xm with kernel 3.04-x3 (rcn) freezing with usb actions. I can supply more information or would post a bug report if sombody is interested in.
May 06 08:45:21 <av500> is that a kernel that rcn still "supports"?
May 06 09:00:19 <netseal> I do not know if this kernel is supported by rcn and I could not find a way to contact him.
May 06 09:01:18 <av500> he is active on the mailing list
May 06 09:05:41 <netseal> Sorry, but on which mailing list?
May 06 09:07:46 <av500> the beagleboard one
May 06 09:10:53 <netseal> ahh ok. Thanks
May 06 10:24:55 <mdp> oh...cruel...also read lkcl before coffee
May 06 10:25:00 <av500> :)
May 06 10:45:16 <rob_w> who is generating this magic dtb file ?
May 06 10:46:12 <mru> fairies
May 06 10:47:19 <av500> rob_w: the kernel build process
May 06 10:52:10 <rob_w> so there is a Makefile target  ..
May 06 10:53:46 <XorA> rob_w: make <something>.dtb
May 06 10:54:06 <XorA> rob_w: <something> normally found in arch/arm/boot/dts
May 06 10:55:06 <rob_w> thx !
May 06 10:57:16 <mrpackethead> why are Resistors referenced as R, Capacitors as C, but Inductors as L
May 06 10:57:37 <mru> because I is current
May 06 10:57:50 <av500> L is from spuLe :)
May 06 10:57:58 <mru> aka coiL
May 06 10:58:07 <mrpackethead> C is for Charge?
May 06 10:58:18 <mrpackethead> C is for Chocolate and also Cookie
May 06 10:58:31 <mrpackethead> Just had a dumb discussion today why L
May 06 10:58:32 <av500> Coulomb
May 06 10:58:44 <mrpackethead> but now i'll have an answer
May 06 10:58:45 <mru> is the unit for charge
May 06 10:59:23 <av500> ... It is customary to use the symbol L for inductance, in honour of the physicist Heinrich Lenz
May 06 10:59:29 <mrpackethead> where is a better place to get answers to any triva than #beagle
May 06 10:59:30 <av500> its from a wiki
May 06 10:59:38 <av500> albeit a big one
May 06 11:10:02 <mru> oh look, aholler posting in the lkcl dt thread
May 06 11:10:31 <mru> someone should mention jihad...
May 06 11:11:12 <KotH> lol
May 06 11:11:19 <mdp> haha
May 06 11:11:28 <mru> KotH: do you have a highlight on jihad?
May 06 11:14:45 <KotH> not yet
May 06 11:14:59 <KotH> just came to work and logged in on my irc host :)
May 06 11:15:01 <mru> you disappoint me
May 06 11:15:46 <KotH> dont worry, you are not the only one i dissapoint
May 06 11:15:58 <mru> and you're not the only one to disappoint me
May 06 11:17:35 <mrpackethead> KotH: you'll be dissapointed that you are not on the TSA's list when you get the USA
May 06 11:18:01 <mru> I hope I didn't get added after that incident with the explosives
May 06 11:18:21 <mrpackethead> it was diesel that got me on the list
May 06 11:18:38 <mru> and fertiliser?
May 06 11:18:49 <mrpackethead> no just diesel
May 06 11:19:01 <mru> your friend had the fertiliser?
May 06 11:20:57 <mrpackethead> KotH: did
May 06 11:26:17 <av500> mrpackethead: boarding a plane with a jerry can full of diesel might look suspicious...
May 06 11:26:49 <mru> I think it would be in clear violation of various rules too
May 06 11:28:16 <av500> well, Ryan Air might ask to bring some or pay extra
May 06 11:44:06 <av500> the new rpi killer, expect when its used to connect arduino shields to rpi, then its an arduino killer: http://www.cnx-software.com/2013/05/06/coocox-embedded-pi-is-an-stm32-based-mcu-board-that-connects-to-arduino-shields-and-raspberry-pi/
May 06 11:44:17 <av500> maybe it can also kill itself
May 06 11:53:16 <Bumble-Bee> soooo, arch on the black seems to boot .... only if no ethernet cable it plugged in
May 06 11:55:52 <mdp> @a500, I have high hopes for that
May 06 11:58:20 <KotH> mrpackethead: how did you manage to do that?
May 06 11:59:20 <KotH> av500: yet-another-stm32-board...
May 06 12:11:25 <bmercer> finally found my serial cable box!
May 06 12:11:35 <bmercer> sunday night at like 21:00
May 06 12:11:36 <bmercer> lol
May 06 12:11:44 <bmercer> hopefully I can wire one up
May 06 12:13:54 <panto> hello
May 06 12:18:25 <KotH> hey greek!
May 06 12:18:49 <panto> don't hate me cause I'm laid back
May 06 12:19:24 <mru> ok, we'll hate you for something else then
May 06 12:19:58 <panto> my streamlined/aerodynamic appearance?
May 06 12:20:22 <mru> is that the new euphemism for being bald
May 06 12:20:37 <panto> you like it? I patented it already
May 06 12:20:58 <mru> fine by me, I'm not affected
May 06 12:21:17 <mru> I _could_ shave my head of course, but that doesn't count
May 06 12:22:04 <panto> dammit, I'm losing my revenue stream here... can't I throw a toaster in and make you join?
May 06 12:23:27 <mru> don't blame me for my genetic make-up
May 06 12:23:59 <panto> but I blame mine...
May 06 12:24:54 <mru> well, the hair makes me look younger, which isn't always a good thing
May 06 12:26:47 <panto> you'll spend more years of your life wishing you were younger than wishing your were older
May 06 12:26:55 <shoragan> panto, in the acd driver, why did you remove chan->info_mask = IIO_CHAN_INFO_RAW_SEPARATE_BIT in 69260b0b00445111530773e729be372c2d502926 ?
May 06 12:27:03 <shoragan> s/acd/adc/
May 06 12:27:46 <panto> shoragan, could've slipped
May 06 12:27:58 <panto> patches accepted ;)
May 06 12:28:09 <shoragan> that's why the in_voltage_raw* don't appear in sysfs any more
May 06 12:28:43 <panto> shoragan, could have missed it when converting the driver
May 06 12:29:50 <shoragan> ok, just wanted to know if i you had any reason to remove it that i was overlooking
May 06 12:31:19 <panto> no
May 06 12:39:36 <shoragan> panto, did you send any new version after this review mail? http://marc.info/?l=linux-iio&m=135162173727868&w=2
May 06 12:41:26 <panto> shoragan, no
May 06 12:41:45 <panto> we're busy with getting black out of the door now
May 06 12:42:05 <panto> when we get some spare cycles we'll respin for 3.10
May 06 12:42:08 <shoragan> panto, no worries :)
May 06 12:42:39 <shoragan> i'll just send my patches to you and will CC the lists
May 06 12:42:49 <shoragan> then you can squash them in or whatever :
May 06 12:43:07 <KotH> panto: i dont hate you
May 06 12:43:24 <KotH> panto: but when i meet you, we will fight! :)
May 06 12:44:27 <panto> sure
May 06 12:44:51 <panto> KotH, can't we fight later? I'm in the middle of some coffee/siesta
May 06 12:45:37 <bradfa> panto, when siesta is over, do you have some info on what exactly you mean regarding software defined peripherals?  google's not turning up much good docs other than some software radio
May 06 12:47:10 <panto> bradfa, the idea is that we now have enough spare cycles to our auxiliary cpus to have them bit-bang peripheral interfaces we need
May 06 12:47:31 <panto> think of it as high speed bitbanging, but actually usuable
May 06 12:47:33 <bradfa> ok, that's what I thought, just wanted to make sure "bit banging at high speeds" was a decent definition
May 06 12:47:37 <panto> *useable
May 06 12:48:30 <KotH> panto: no problem
May 06 12:48:34 <KotH> panto: enjoy your coffee
May 06 12:48:44 <panto> I'll finish round about 2060
May 06 12:48:49 <panto> we can fight then
May 06 12:49:21 <KotH> ok..
May 06 12:49:44 <KotH> lets meet at the restaurant at the corner, then we can have something to eat first
May 06 12:50:07 <panto> we can't fight on a full stomach
May 06 12:50:15 <panto> we should have some chocolate too
May 06 12:50:20 <KotH> hmm...well... we can pretend to fight
May 06 12:50:35 <panto> I'll fight you for the bitter chocolate
May 06 12:50:37 <KotH> ofc, where KotH is, there is chocolate
May 06 14:14:26 <panto> time to go
May 06 14:14:32 <panto> cya tomorrow
May 06 14:44:50 <old-papa-work> Now I'm at the real beaglebone channel
May 06 14:45:03 <mru> there's a fake one?
May 06 14:45:18 <old-papa-work> Might be... you know the ineternet..
May 06 14:45:21 <old-papa-work> internet
May 06 14:45:30 <mru> /j #fakebeagle
May 06 14:45:36 <old-papa-work> heh
May 06 14:48:15 <av500> this channel is about beagle the desktop search engine
May 06 14:48:38 <old-papa-work> ??
May 06 14:48:58 <old-papa-work> beagle search, ah a webcrawler..
May 06 14:49:25 <mru> more of a desk crawler
May 06 14:49:38 <old-papa-work> a desktop crawler..
May 06 14:50:33 <av500> old-papa-work: it was a joke
May 06 14:50:38 <av500> you are in the right channel
May 06 14:50:47 <old-papa-work> Hehe, I know... I know..
May 06 14:50:59 <mru> isn't this entire channel a joke?
May 06 14:51:24 <old-papa-work> I hope not, one of these days Imight ask a question..
May 06 14:51:37 <av500> oh noes
May 06 14:51:57 <mru> please do, we love answering questions
May 06 14:52:13 <mru> not everybody likes our answers though
May 06 14:52:30 <av500> I like questioning the answers
May 06 14:53:08 <old-papa-work> Us old people have question other where to get the best deal on a scooter, or which brand of depends to get
May 06 14:53:33 <old-papa-work> And which tennis balls are best for the walker..
May 06 14:53:56 <bradfa> Wilson!
May 06 14:54:40 <old-papa-work> Brite yellow for night time walkering
May 06 14:58:10 <old-papa-work> So, is this the bone or board..  It's a monday and I'm loosing my ability to multitask..
May 06 14:58:20 <av500> both
May 06 14:58:38 <mru> boneboard
May 06 14:59:13 <old-papa-work> bonifide boneboard?
May 06 14:59:41 <mru> and occasionally borad
May 06 15:00:14 <mru> http://beagleborad.org/
May 06 15:00:44 <old-papa-work> Yup, on it now..
May 06 15:01:49 <old-papa-work> a future project for the company is for an android device with a 10" touchscreen display.. currently they are using an Motorola xoom I think..
May 06 15:02:19 <av500> you want to build one yourself?
May 06 15:02:26 <old-papa-work> I got an email from MCM electronics with this board listed..  soooo... one of these days I be developing
May 06 15:03:04 <old-papa-work> Well, 1st off will make a concept to see if can do what we need. I'm sure that it will, since the I/O ports are available
May 06 15:03:16 <old-papa-work> the Tablet needed an interface..
May 06 15:04:19 <old-papa-work> I should be able to port their program.. change it to sit on the Beaglebone/black
May 06 15:04:56 <old-papa-work> They are just waiting for money on the original project to get it approved..
May 06 15:05:31 <old-papa-work> That project is nearly done to be shown to the ones who will fund it..
May 06 15:06:06 <old-papa-work> So, I'm just looking and checking ...
May 06 15:06:31 <ka6sox> mourning
May 06 15:06:37 <old-papa-work> If it works, we will prob construct our own board with plugs etc to connect
May 06 15:07:48 <old-papa-work> So it should be a beaglebone maybe the new black, (I just learned about this this morning), android installed, and interface of a touchscreen and I/O..
May 06 15:07:53 <vvu> mornin` ka6sox
May 06 15:08:27 <av500> old-papa-work: for now there is on driver for the 3D unit on the bone black
May 06 15:08:31 <av500> and android needs that
May 06 15:08:49 <av500> is no*
May 06 15:08:56 <old-papa-work> Ok, so the black is the board I should consider
May 06 15:09:03 <av500> no
May 06 15:09:12 <av500> well, yes
May 06 15:09:21 <av500> but for now there is no 3d driver yet
May 06 15:09:31 <av500> so android will not run out of the box
May 06 15:09:42 <old-papa-work> 3D, hmm, ok,   so maybe soon..
May 06 15:09:44 <mru> what's missing?
May 06 15:09:52 <av500> there is "rowboat" which is TI's android port for the white bone
May 06 15:09:59 <av500> as a starting poitn
May 06 15:10:03 <av500> I cannot say how good it is
May 06 15:10:10 <mru> rowboat still exists?
May 06 15:10:19 <av500> all in all, the SoC on the bone is not really into multimedia
May 06 15:10:21 <old-papa-work> Thats the other ?, TI vs Beagle?
May 06 15:10:27 <av500> no
May 06 15:11:49 <mru> for multimedia these days you should probably be looking at allwinner if you want cheap and exynos if you want good
May 06 15:12:36 <old-papa-work> The graphics will display reading and have buttons (on screen) to adj settings to valves.. etc..
May 06 15:13:28 <old-papa-work> Like report oxygen flow, increase it or lower it..  turn this on or off, etc..  no real big display of movies..
May 06 15:13:52 <mru> for that the am335x should be fine
May 06 15:13:57 <av500> ok
May 06 15:14:22 <old-papa-work> control psnel..
May 06 15:14:25 <old-papa-work> panel
May 06 15:14:25 <av500> old-papa-work: still you have to consider that the bone is not a prime android target
May 06 15:14:40 <av500> TI made something work, but I have no idea how commited they are
May 06 15:14:54 <mdp> TI is always committed
May 06 15:15:02 <av500> mdp: just to what
May 06 15:15:13 <av500> mdp: one can always design-in level shifters
May 06 15:15:17 <old-papa-work> ok, darn, thought I found the right device..  but, maybe I can still order one with stuff..
May 06 15:15:17 <mdp> av500, quit reading between the lines
May 06 15:15:42 <av500> old-papa-work: as said, it could be the right one
May 06 15:16:46 <old-papa-work> Oh, ok..
May 06 15:16:51 <old-papa-work> Kool..
May 06 15:17:24 <old-papa-work> I like options..
May 06 15:20:32 <old-papa-work> old-people, exacto knives, and Monday mornings, not a good mix
May 06 15:24:11 <old-papa-work> woohoo, no cut fingers..
May 06 16:18:37 <koen> shoragan: can you forward those patches to me, linux-iio has no patchwork :(
May 06 16:18:58 <av500> not a git pull request?
May 06 16:19:38 <koen> that would work as well
May 06 16:20:40 <Crofton|work> koen, is getting harder to troll
May 06 16:27:13 <shoragan> koen, you should have received them on CC
May 06 16:27:32 <koen> ah
May 06 16:27:39 <koen> they got sorted into the linux-omap folder
May 06 16:27:42 <koen> shoragan: thanks!
May 06 16:27:48 <shoragan> np
May 06 16:34:47 <shoragan> koen, if you do any testing on those patches, i'd appreciate some feedback :)
May 06 16:37:05 <shoragan> see you tomorrow
May 06 16:47:58 <jkroon> hi koen. are you familiar with the .dts-file syntax ? I'm wondering if its ok to have multiple root nodes defined, and wether they are merged or not. I see that the am335x-bone.dts does include on several files, which would suggest that root nodes are indeed merged.
May 06 16:49:47 <av500> should I tell TI that red shirts normally dont live long? https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-_YH0hCLaRQM/UYfeRKbxK4I/AAAAAAAABPw/a53M1CStA_I/w497-h373/7e6c54a3-0a1f-4d02-bd24-a56adc091001
May 06 16:50:19 <mru> what's that red shirtless behind him?
May 06 16:50:29 <mru> is that the monster of the week?
May 06 16:51:00 <av500> I think it's a 3D printed replacement
May 06 16:51:35 <mru> like in that episode where the bad guy replaced kirk with an android?
May 06 16:56:29 <grantsmith> if i have a BBB up and running, and I pop in a SD card, I should see some action is dmesg, right ?
May 06 16:56:48 <grantsmith> i've now tried 3 SD cards
May 06 16:56:56 <grantsmith> WHY GOD WHY
May 06 16:57:48 <grantsmith> some action *in dmesg
May 06 17:07:44 <mdp> hehe, had plenty of coffee and then read the rest of the lkcl thread...now they are starting to pontificate on if only ARM used standard DIMMs...wheee
May 06 17:44:05 <mru> mdp: my pc takes std dimms and it's still a pita to configure
May 06 17:45:20 <mdp> +1
May 06 17:47:45 * KotH wonders how dimms would simplify anything
May 06 17:48:50 <ka6sox> just solder it all on and call it DONE.
May 06 17:49:01 <mdp> they started circling in on hardcoded ddr timings and then the whole SPD in dimm thing solved that problem
May 06 17:49:12 <mdp> the thread is all over the place
May 06 17:49:32 <KotH> which thread?
May 06 17:49:46 <mdp> I really wanted to reply and tell them to standardize on CHRP ;)
May 06 17:49:55 <mdp> the lkcl one
May 06 17:50:02 <KotH> lkcl?
May 06 17:50:17 * KotH is still a n00b
May 06 17:53:00 <mdp> https://lkml.org/lkml/2013/5/5/35
May 06 17:54:50 <KotH> domo
May 06 17:55:21 * bradfa likes that acpi is somehow good
May 06 17:55:50 <prpplague> jkridner_: deadline for gsoc reviews is EoD today?
May 06 17:58:39 <mdp> Can POST codes help here?
May 06 17:58:55 <mdp> board bringup time portion of the rant was great
May 06 17:59:01 <bradfa> I liked board files, they were nice
May 06 17:59:04 <bradfa> :)
May 06 17:59:04 <mdp> so many incoherent things in it..great fun
May 06 17:59:18 <woglinde> mdp post leds
May 06 17:59:20 * KotH lols at "where the HW designers don't care what 
May 06 17:59:20 <KotH> kind of mess they cause the people who have to write and maintain device
May 06 17:59:20 <mdp> bradfa, you still have board-generic.c...enjoy
May 06 17:59:21 <KotH> drivers and kernels that run on the devices."
May 06 17:59:29 <_av500_> prpplague: no
May 06 17:59:33 <_av500_> deadline to ask for slots is
May 06 17:59:39 <mru> what we need is forth code in dt
May 06 17:59:40 <_av500_> reviews go on until the 22nd
May 06 17:59:46 <woglinde> mru +1
May 06 17:59:49 <bradfa> mru, +1
May 06 17:59:57 <_av500_> +2 for the heck of it
May 06 17:59:57 <mdp> that is why it's all failing now..lack of forth
May 06 18:00:03 <KotH> +pi
May 06 18:00:03 <mdp> you can't do that
May 06 18:00:04 <_av500_> and firth
May 06 18:00:05 <mdp> +11
May 06 18:00:09 <prpplague> _av500_: ok thanks, i'm totally behind on reading up on my duties as a mentor as well as the reviews :(
May 06 18:00:11 <bradfa> +!!
May 06 18:00:22 <woglinde> prpplague not good
May 06 18:00:35 <mdp> prpplague, there's an extensive howto covering all the expectations of you as a mentor
May 06 18:00:45 <mdp> prpplague, but you are clearly behind
May 06 18:01:08 <_av500_> not a team player
May 06 18:02:34 <prpplague> mdp: indeed
May 06 18:02:45 <mdp> are we an effective team?
May 06 18:02:47 <prpplague> mdp: i have about half of it read
May 06 18:03:15 <prpplague> mdp: it was a last minute decision to sign up as a mentor....
May 06 18:05:34 <ka6sox> mru +2
May 06 18:09:44 <ka6sox> mdp, that article ought to set a few people on fire...
May 06 18:10:48 <mdp> the one prpplague posted? ;)
May 06 18:11:55 <prpplague> ka6sox: the snowball one?
May 06 18:12:13 <mdp> prpplague, social networking one, I think
May 06 18:12:21 <mdp> or the hackaday one
May 06 18:12:25 <mdp> both "controversial"
May 06 18:12:37 * hatguy_ asks prpplague not to backoff now... Its probably not THAT demanding 
May 06 18:12:52 <KotH> article?
May 06 18:17:07 <ka6sox> the LKML one
May 06 18:17:11 <ka6sox> about DT
May 06 18:17:35 <koen> lkcl
May 06 18:19:02 * ka6sox tries to remember what the C means.
May 06 18:19:39 <_av500_> Casson
May 06 18:19:47 <ka6sox> of course
May 06 18:19:49 <ka6sox> lkcl
May 06 18:19:52 <ka6sox> duh
May 06 18:21:10 <_av500_> in one point he is right
May 06 18:21:17 <_av500_> the HW designers do not care
May 06 18:21:24 <mdp> a broken clock is right...
May 06 18:21:47 <ka6sox> only 1X/day now
May 06 18:21:53 <ka6sox> (digital clocks)
May 06 18:21:54 <mdp> that is something we can all agree on
May 06 18:21:59 <_av500_> no HW designer will make a tradeoff because something is more nicer in the kernel
May 06 18:22:39 <mdp> they carefully design all communications path with SW folks to be a one-way medium
May 06 18:23:14 <mdp> and you are always too late if a feedback path is found ;)
May 06 18:23:27 <_av500_> of course
May 06 18:23:44 <prpplague> hatguy_: no not backing out of doing the mentor thing, just was swamped over the weekend with some project planning
May 06 18:23:48 <ka6sox> locked down, too late to make it into fab, sorry charlie...
May 06 18:24:24 <_av500_> my favorit is "you are killing the company"
May 06 18:24:27 <prpplague> mdp: yea you can start calling me "mr.aggitator" now
May 06 18:24:28 <_av500_> +e
May 06 18:24:40 <ka6sox> when does the actual coding for GSoC start?
May 06 18:25:06 <hatguy_> prpplague: oh thats alright....reviews shouldn't take much long i guess
May 06 18:25:17 <KotH> mru: ahollers reply does indeed warant a JIHAD!
May 06 18:25:55 <mru> do it!
May 06 18:25:59 <mdp> clearly he didn't understand what it meant to get off the internets
May 06 18:25:59 <hatguy_> ka6sox: officially, june 17
May 06 18:26:06 <mdp> _all_ the internets
May 06 18:26:08 <ka6sox> good...
May 06 18:27:08 <_av500_> I dont even understand ahollers reply
May 06 18:29:02 <jarrettv1> anybody have any bbb projects yet?
May 06 18:29:34 <_av500_> I took pictures of mine
May 06 18:29:45 <KotH> oh.. it's quite simple: someone who has never done any hardware work and seemingly never has worked with together with hardware guys, accuses a hardware guy (who actually is a software guy) of over-the-wall engineering
May 06 18:30:09 <KotH> ...and politely tells him to fuck off
May 06 18:31:46 <_av500_> KotH: your psycho studies have paid off
May 06 18:32:47 <KotH> why do you think am i sitting in those lecture halls full of gorgeous girls? for the girls? of course not!
May 06 18:46:54 <_av500_> ah, UEFI will help to overcome DT limitations
May 06 18:53:19 <woglinde> yes
May 06 18:59:04 <Tartarus> Just need to call back to the firmware and get all of the clocks and muxing done
May 06 19:04:51 <mdp> and here they had me convinced that DIMMs would fix everything
May 06 19:04:53 <mdp> drat
May 06 19:05:53 <ka6sox> I find it amusing that some "embedded development" board use std dimms instead of SODIMMS
May 06 19:06:16 <mdp> ka6sox, all of mine yse to use dimms...back in the day ;)
May 06 19:07:24 <ds2> POP4EVER!!!
May 06 19:08:03 <prpplague> ka6sox: i have a prototype omap5432 design i did that uses dimms
May 06 19:08:12 <prpplague> ka6sox: was easier to work with for the prototype
May 06 19:08:17 <mdp> +1
May 06 19:08:31 <prpplague> ka6sox: but you are right, there is no reason not to go with sodimms for production
May 06 19:08:48 <mdp> let's see sandpoint, ppc405gp,440gp,440gx,440ep evms off the top of my head
May 06 19:09:12 <mdp> and yeah, u-boot's spd support made them "just work" :)
May 06 19:09:20 <prpplague> i kind of regret not keeping those designs as technically they belonged to me, but i was in the mood to just put it all behind me...
May 06 19:09:35 <mdp> prpplague, a lot to be said for cutting the cord
May 06 19:09:36 <ka6sox> :(
May 06 19:09:45 <prpplague> mdp: indeed
May 06 19:10:15 <KotH> why didnt you make any "backups"? :)
May 06 19:10:24 <mdp> maybe coreboot can help ARM
May 06 19:10:36 <prpplague> hehe
May 06 19:10:47 <mdp> coreboot and u-boot together ;)
May 06 19:10:52 <prpplague> KotH: limited number of chips available
May 06 19:10:59 <prpplague> ruchika: !!! hey there!
May 06 19:12:16 <KotH> all the bitching and moaning aside... what would be an solution for the diversity problem?
May 06 19:12:24 <mdp> ka6sox, I think when "altoids tin" actually made marketing requirements the dimm sockets go out the window ;)
May 06 19:13:43 <ds2> mdp: are you trying to increase CCO's workers comp claims for thumb injuries from dimm installation?
May 06 19:13:57 <mdp> hehe
May 06 19:14:05 <_av500_> KotH: DT of course
May 06 19:14:20 <_av500_> in fact, stable binary driver API
May 06 19:14:23 <_av500_> in Linux
May 06 19:14:25 <mdp> ds2, trying to wipe them out and swoop in on their lucrative ODM biz
May 06 19:15:23 <mdp> my solution is to have Intel wipe out ARM
May 06 19:15:30 <mdp> make the problem go away
May 06 19:15:46 <_av500_> +1
May 06 19:16:10 <ds2> yes, have them acquire marvell and make 2000GHz arm chips that run slower then 20KHz real ARM chips :D|
May 06 19:16:19 <mdp> lol
May 06 19:16:36 <jkroon> How do I set the pinmux on a 3.8.x kernel the easiest way ?
May 06 19:16:46 <_av500_>  /dev/mem
May 06 19:16:57 <jkroon> using a 3.8.x kernel I mean
May 06 19:17:06 <jkroon> _av500_, oh, I just write to the registers directly ?
May 06 19:17:17 <jkroon> control registers
May 06 19:17:31 <ds2> jtag
May 06 19:18:33 <_av500_> jkroon: with DT fragments
May 06 19:20:25 <jkroon> _av500_, i'm patching am335x-bone.dts, and adding pin configurations and drivers, but its not working.. so I thought I'd experiment with setting the modes at runtime
May 06 19:20:52 <jkroon> _av500_, so you were joking about using /dev/mem ?
May 06 19:21:27 <jkroon> omap_mux seems to be gone in 3.8 unfortunatley :-(
May 06 19:24:28 <_av500_> sorry, yes joking
May 06 19:24:36 <_av500_> munging the dts is the new way
May 06 19:27:12 <jkroon> so, no way to at least read the pin mode from userspace in 3.8 ?
May 06 19:27:31 <_av500_> read yes
May 06 19:27:36 <_av500_> pinctrl in debugfs
May 06 19:27:47 <_av500_> pinctrl/44something/pins
May 06 19:28:04 <Beginner1> hello
May 06 19:28:07 <_av500_> wasnt there a series the 4400?
May 06 19:28:20 <Beginner1> I ordered the beaglebone black and am very confused
May 06 19:28:29 <jkroon> _av500_, right found it, thanks
May 06 19:28:41 <agmlego> Beginner1: YOu should ask a question then.
May 06 19:28:45 <Beginner1> will it run stiaght out of the box?
May 06 19:28:52 <_av500_> jkridner_: pins gives you the register values
May 06 19:29:01 <_av500_> the other entries give various other info
May 06 19:29:03 <agmlego> Beginner1: Yes, it will.
May 06 19:29:06 <Beginner1> also, the power 5V, is the + on the inside?
May 06 19:29:11 <_av500_> yes
May 06 19:29:22 <agmlego> Beginner1: I believe so, check the SRM (System Reference Manual).
May 06 19:29:39 <Beginner1> will a wireless keyboard and mouse work?
May 06 19:29:45 <agmlego> Maybe.
May 06 19:29:49 <agmlego> Probably.
May 06 19:29:54 <Beginner1> it came with no manual
May 06 19:30:00 <agmlego> YOu download the manual.
May 06 19:30:04 <Beginner1> link?
May 06 19:30:20 <_av500_> beagleboard.org
May 06 19:30:21 <agmlego> Google "Beaglebone SRM"
May 06 19:30:41 <agmlego> Or "Beaglebpone black SRM"
May 06 19:31:35 <Mode-M> can I build binaries with -mfloat-abi=softfp floating point ABI even if I use a toolchain with arm-linux-gnueabihf prefix?
May 06 19:32:26 <levi> Beginner1: The manual is stored in the internal flash. You can get it by hooking it up to the computer via the included USB cable.
May 06 19:33:09 <levi> Or you could find it online, of course.
May 06 19:43:06 <jkroon> so.. the pin direction mux setting, and linux gpio direction setting are set independenlty of each other ?
May 06 19:44:04 <mdp> yes
May 06 19:44:25 <mdp> different parts of the silicon
May 06 19:45:30 <jkroon> mdp, ah.. but both must be set as output if I want to use the pin as an output signal right ?
May 06 19:45:49 <mdp> yes
May 06 19:46:13 <jkroon> ok
May 06 19:57:16 <koen> between gsoc students doing proper research and shoragan I think I managed to address two of the major items that make jkridner a sad puppy
May 06 19:57:48 * jkridner likes not being a sad puppy
May 06 19:57:58 * koen needs to actually test it first, but iio and pwm should have regular, non-capebus sysfs bindings now
May 06 19:58:15 <koen> jkridner: http://dominion.thruhere.net/koen/angstrom/beaglebone/BBB-eMMC-flasher-2013.05.06.img.xz
May 06 20:02:12 <Beginner2> how do I get youtube to play?
May 06 20:02:19 <Beginner2> or any flash site for that matter
May 06 20:02:21 <Beginner2> ?
May 06 20:02:22 <woglinde> lol
May 06 20:02:46 <woglinde> change youtube to html5
May 06 20:03:09 <Beginner2> I am using the build in firefox browser
May 06 20:03:09 <woglinde> for other flash try lightspark or gnash
May 06 20:03:20 <ka6sox> jkridner you a happy puppy now?
May 06 20:03:21 <Beginner2> how do I get apps?
May 06 20:03:28 <woglinde> apps?
May 06 20:03:32 <Beginner2> programs
May 06 20:03:41 <woglinde> opkg install
May 06 20:03:57 <Beginner2> ooookay... and how do I do that?
May 06 20:04:03 <woglinde> open console
May 06 20:04:18 <woglinde> via serial console or ssh
May 06 20:05:23 <Beginner2> under applications on top left?
May 06 20:05:56 <levi> It will probably be called "Terminal"
May 06 20:06:29 <woglinde> maybee its gateone
May 06 20:06:41 <levi> Assuming you've got the keyboard/mouse/HDMI hooked up and you're running the built-in gnome desktop.
May 06 20:06:47 * ptan feeling this is going to end badly...
May 06 20:07:14 <levi> Beginner2: Out of curiosity, where did you hear about the beaglebone and what are you planning on doing with it?
May 06 20:07:36 <Beginner2> I just want to play youtube videso
May 06 20:07:50 <Beginner2> and web streaming
May 06 20:08:01 <Beginner2> I have a roku box but it doesnt have youtube
May 06 20:08:09 <Beginner2> or a browser
May 06 20:08:10 <SpeedEvil> Anything that requires flash will not work at all
May 06 20:08:40 <Beginner2> I am not very technical
May 06 20:08:50 <levi> The beaglebone is probably not the best choice of devices for playing youtube videos and web streaming.
May 06 20:09:02 <SpeedEvil> Get a small PC of some form.
May 06 20:09:07 <Beginner2> I also bought a raspberry Pi and that one is very slow
May 06 20:09:20 <levi> The beaglebone is also very slow by PC standards.
May 06 20:09:31 <Beginner2> I just need a streaming device
May 06 20:09:35 <SpeedEvil> And does not support flash.
May 06 20:09:42 <Beginner2> I currently have a PC and it is loud
May 06 20:09:46 <SpeedEvil> Get a suitable boxed small PC
May 06 20:09:51 <levi> You should get an intel NUC.
May 06 20:09:55 <SpeedEvil> Fanless
May 06 20:10:17 <levi> The cheaper Celeron version will be fine.
May 06 20:10:55 <trip0> I did some power tests with the BB vs BBBlack: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AlG_0jiTRW8mdEVWeEFyYlFpdlJuTC1DZWtfQk40Z2c&usp=sharing
May 06 20:11:42 <trip0> it appears the white consumes less power
May 06 20:12:29 <levi> Unless you did something to hold the HDMI framer in reset, it was probably running and consuming power.
May 06 20:12:51 <trip0> ahh
May 06 20:13:39 <trip0> that might explain the difference
May 06 20:14:27 <ShadowJK> One of those android sticks might be usable for youtube, if it comes with the android youtube app
May 06 20:15:21 <levi> The TRM mentions a firmware blob that gets loaded on the WakeM3 for power management purposes. Anyone know if that's part of the stock image and whether the source for it is available?
May 06 20:17:32 <trip0> i wonder how one would turn off HDMI.  can i echo something into proc?
May 06 20:24:38 <levi> I dunno if there's a handy plumbed-up way to do it from Linux userspace.
May 06 20:25:02 <bradfa> pesky bits...
May 06 20:25:03 <pepee> hi. anyone from chile or south america?
May 06 20:25:10 <levi> It's not actually normal to be able to tweak that sort of thing from userspace. :)
May 06 20:35:59 <trip0> perhaps a kernel arg?  or should I just disable it in my kernel?
May 06 20:41:32 <mrpackethead> ka6sox: you here?
May 06 20:43:58 <ka6sox> mrpackethead, yup!
May 06 20:44:10 <ka6sox> trip0, I don't see a way to keep the framer in reset
May 06 20:44:24 <mrpackethead> ka6sox: Just was replying to your email.
May 06 20:44:29 <ka6sox> sweet
May 06 20:44:33 <mrpackethead> the Logibone folks got in contact with me
May 06 20:44:38 <ka6sox> :)
May 06 20:44:53 <mrpackethead> and they were pretty keen to get me to look at their Spartan6 solution
May 06 20:45:03 <mrpackethead> but they are still tweaking the design
May 06 20:45:16 <Novice> if I install ubuntu on the beaglebone black, will it be as functional as the PC version?
May 06 20:45:16 <ka6sox> trip0 unless there is a way to shut it down via i2c
May 06 20:45:52 <mrpackethead> ka6sox: my gut feeling says, get the BCC, and have a play / learn with it
May 06 20:45:56 <trip0> Novice: kinda.  But don't expect hardware miracles
May 06 20:45:57 <ka6sox> mrpackethead, I think its too much of an unknown to me...the S3A I *know*
May 06 20:46:16 <ka6sox> and its available now...not "some unspecified date in the future"
May 06 20:46:16 <Novice> I only need to stream video from the web through a browser
May 06 20:46:27 <mrpackethead> and then maybe down the track, when things settle with their project,  maybe pick those up
May 06 20:46:28 <Novice> the native OS on this thing sucks
May 06 20:46:46 <mrpackethead> Novice: are you bagging Angstrom?
May 06 20:46:57 <Novice> yeah
May 06 20:47:00 <ka6sox> Novice, and you think a heavyweight Ubuntu will be better performance?
May 06 20:47:09 <Novice> not for performance
May 06 20:47:19 <Novice> just to play flash video from a browser
May 06 20:47:29 <mrpackethead> Novice: why dont' you get a raspberry PI
May 06 20:47:39 <ka6sox> mrpackethead, +1e85
May 06 20:47:39 <Novice> I did, and it's very slow
May 06 20:47:53 <Novice> this black seems to have a faster CPU
May 06 20:48:04 <mrpackethead> Novice: probably because you put ubuntu on it
May 06 20:48:16 <ka6sox> Novice, take a look at the load presented to a x86_64 desktop by running Flash...
May 06 20:48:23 <ka6sox> its horrible
May 06 20:48:29 <Novice> I don't have ubuntu
May 06 20:48:35 <Novice> i want to install ubuntu
May 06 20:48:41 <Novice> on the beagle
May 06 20:48:41 <mrpackethead> well, you can
May 06 20:48:44 <ka6sox> GLHF
May 06 20:48:58 <mrpackethead> theres lots of instructions.. have you heard of Google?
May 06 20:49:07 <mrpackethead> search beaglebone unbuntu
May 06 20:49:17 <Novice> because I cant seem to figure out how to play flash on Angstrom
May 06 20:49:22 <jarrettv> kinda suprised the beaglebone hdmi output is so limited
May 06 20:49:32 <Novice> I did search and it's very confusing
May 06 20:50:00 <Novice> is there a good way to play flash on the native OS?
May 06 20:50:16 <ka6sox> its an EMBEDDED ARM folks...don't expect it to be a i7
May 06 20:50:26 <Novice> something simple that a girl liek me can understand how to do
May 06 20:50:53 <Novice> I just seem to be having many blonde moments today
May 06 20:50:59 <thurgood> embedded systems are not desktop replacements
May 06 20:51:03 <mrpackethead> Novice: http://elinux.org/BeagleBoardUbuntu
May 06 20:51:13 <ka6sox> Novice, we all have them :)
May 06 20:51:33 <Russ> ka6sox, they usually seem to involve pinmux
May 06 20:51:40 <mrpackethead> you wont' get better instructions that that
May 06 20:51:43 <ka6sox> and getting ubuntu onto a Bone is not simple (based upon the Forum/ML/Comments here.
May 06 20:51:47 <ka6sox> )
May 06 20:52:10 <ka6sox> Russ, absolutely
May 06 20:52:22 <ka6sox> pinmux is a Horrid thing...
May 06 20:52:23 <trip0> Novice, if flash is what you want, be prepared to hit a deadend
May 06 20:52:27 <ka6sox> whoops
May 06 20:52:37 <trip0> the ubuntu binaries are NOT arm compatible
May 06 20:53:09 <ka6sox> thats because they are ARMHF mostly now right?
May 06 20:53:11 <Russ> there are open flash alternatives, but they only support a subset of flash
May 06 20:53:26 <ka6sox> gnash?
May 06 20:53:35 <trip0> yeh, gnash might work...
May 06 20:53:41 <Russ> I think there are newer things than gnash too
May 06 20:53:50 <trip0> ka6sox: yes, ubuntu is HF now
May 06 20:54:03 <trip0> but the flash binaries are x86 only
May 06 20:54:04 <rahil> Hello, I just received my BeagleBone Black, but can't get ethernet to connect. I've tried DHCP and static IPs, and neither work. Anyone having the same issues/have a fix?
May 06 20:54:15 <ka6sox> yet *another* example of Ubuntu going their own way :)
May 06 20:54:19 <trip0> well, they may have an x86-64 version too...
May 06 20:54:24 <Russ> swfdef
May 06 20:54:27 <Russ> er, swfdec
May 06 20:54:35 <Russ> lightspark
May 06 20:54:51 <trip0> ka6sox: i think most people want hf... it's better than sf
May 06 20:54:58 <mrpackethead> ka6sox: interesting idea, i'm just having
May 06 20:55:04 <trip0> meego on arm was HF
May 06 20:55:07 <Russ> trip0, an older processors, it was opposite
May 06 20:55:12 <mrpackethead> the Logi-bone people will give me their gerbers
May 06 20:55:27 <mrpackethead> i can put their cape on a panel, along with a BCC
May 06 20:55:38 <mrpackethead> and then can have the best of both worlds.
May 06 20:55:43 <ka6sox> interesting idea
May 06 20:56:00 <ka6sox> but I'm not sure I want to wait 6months for them to finish tweaking :)
May 06 20:56:00 <mrpackethead> since i'm already going to run a panel, its not a bad idea.
May 06 20:56:20 <ka6sox> not at all.
May 06 20:56:26 <mrpackethead> nor am i
May 06 20:56:32 <mrpackethead> but they say they have a working proto now
May 06 20:56:40 <mrpackethead> he was going ot make some changes
May 06 20:56:46 <ka6sox> will the schematics/layout docs be available without giving away my firstborne?
May 06 20:56:52 <mrpackethead> yes, its online now
May 06 20:56:59 <ka6sox> kewl
May 06 20:57:03 <rahil> Hello, I just received my BeagleBone Black, but can't get ethernet to connect. I've tried DHCP and static IPs, and neither work. Anyone having the same issues/have a fix?
May 06 20:57:06 <mrpackethead> in his git repo
May 06 20:57:19 <ka6sox> rahil, have you google for this issue?
May 06 20:57:32 <ka6sox> what does he call it?
May 06 20:57:49 <rahil> ka6sox, yep, I haven't found anything. Found some stuff about removing a resistor, but that was for original BeagleBone
May 06 20:57:56 <mrpackethead> ka6sox: i sent you the email dialouge i've been having with them
May 06 20:58:10 <mrpackethead> at teh bottom are some links to their system
May 06 20:59:50 <levi> rahil: Are you having trouble with the ethernet port or the usb ethernet gadget mode?
May 06 21:00:02 <ka6sox> mrpackethead, okay, are you getting phat or slim?
May 06 21:00:15 <mrpackethead> im not getting either right now
May 06 21:00:16 <mrpackethead> :-)
May 06 21:00:33 <ka6sox> s/getting/thinkingabout/
May 06 21:00:43 <rahil> levi: well dmesg is giving me a ton of errors regarded the gadget mode, but that seems to be working fine. I am having trouble with the ethernet port on the BeagleBone itself
May 06 21:00:51 <mrpackethead> i guess the phat is probaby more useful
May 06 21:01:00 <ka6sox> mrpackethead, agreed...
May 06 21:01:01 <mrpackethead> i dont' see any of them as an end game for me though
May 06 21:01:05 <ka6sox> lots of Digilent connectors
May 06 21:01:15 <levi> rahil: Any dmesg errors regarding that one?
May 06 21:01:27 <mrpackethead> i'm looking for something that i can use to kick start a project off
May 06 21:01:43 <mrpackethead> once we made some progress on the software / hardware, learned how it works
May 06 21:01:51 <rahil> levi: don't think so, but if there is it's getting lost in a sea of gadget rndis errors
May 06 21:02:01 <mrpackethead> we'll design our own specific board
May 06 21:02:05 <ka6sox> mrpackethead, let me know which way you decide to go.
May 06 21:02:17 <ka6sox> the phat makes more sense to me
May 06 21:02:32 <mrpackethead> "dev" boards are not how to make products
May 06 21:02:41 <ka6sox> clearly
May 06 21:03:03 <ka6sox> but it would be fun anyways...
May 06 21:03:13 <ka6sox> and the digilent connectors are a Standard.
May 06 21:03:25 <levi> rahil: How about ethernet link/activity lights?
May 06 21:03:49 <levi> "dev" boards are a great way to make product prototypes.
May 06 21:03:56 <rahil> levi: solid orange, flashing green...seems like normal activity
May 06 21:03:59 <ka6sox> rahil, have you tried the eMMC onboard distro first and you are *only* having issues with Ubuntu?
May 06 21:04:34 <rahil> ka6sox: should've clarified, i'm having issues with the onboard Angstrom it ships with
May 06 21:04:54 <ka6sox> rahil, yes, that does make a difference.
May 06 21:05:06 <ka6sox> check the forums on this issue?
May 06 21:05:19 <ka6sox> I've seen it mentioned there.
May 06 21:05:42 <rahil> alright, i'll check the forums
May 06 21:05:43 <rahil> thanks
May 06 21:07:24 <mrpackethead> 8:47 am	
May 06 21:07:24 <mrpackethead> On FedEx vehicle for delivery
May 06 21:07:33 <mrpackethead> ka6sox: thats what we liek to see
May 06 21:07:34 <mru> still in memphis
May 06 21:07:37 <levi> I hadn't tried my ethernet port out, but I'm relieved to find that it works fine.
May 06 21:07:45 <mrpackethead> thats my bbb's
May 06 21:07:49 <mru> http://xkcd.com/281/
May 06 21:07:57 <mrpackethead> they will be here in an hour or so
May 06 21:07:59 <mrpackethead> :-)
May 06 21:08:19 <rahil> weird actually, I swapped cables just to see what would happen, and a different cable works
May 06 21:08:25 <mrpackethead> ka6sox: i think i can do something interesting with a panel of pcbs
May 06 21:08:35 <mrpackethead> if i panelise the gerbers
May 06 21:08:42 <rahil> the original cable that didn't work with my bbb works fine with my computer
May 06 21:08:48 <mrpackethead> i can make some BCC's and soem Logi-bones
May 06 21:09:01 <ptan> rahil: I've seen bad cables made before that will work with some computers and not with others.
May 06 21:09:03 <mrpackethead> and for almost the same amount of $$ we have something useful.
May 06 21:09:06 <ka6sox> ya, both have their place...
May 06 21:09:14 <ka6sox> mrpackethead, agreed
May 06 21:09:17 <mrpackethead> and if the logi-bones don't fire
May 06 21:09:25 <ka6sox> FIRE!
May 06 21:09:28 <ptan> rahil: suggest you mark that cable as suspect and not use it.
May 06 21:09:35 <mrpackethead> well, its little lost other than a bit of time to panelise them.
May 06 21:09:44 * ka6sox would take a pair of scissors to that cable.
May 06 21:09:57 <mrpackethead> ptan: pliers.
May 06 21:10:09 <ka6sox> crush works too.
May 06 21:10:27 <levi> rahil: Odd. Well, modern PHYs do all sorts of magic to make high-speed signals work over UTP, so it's not really surprising that a marginal cable could work on some and not on others.
May 06 21:10:27 <ka6sox> mru, its on the truck...on the *other* island..
May 06 21:11:02 <levi> I concur on the advice to trash the cable.
May 06 21:11:21 <ka6sox> morning PRU_EVTOUT_2
May 06 21:11:27 <PRU_EVTOUT_2> Got my BBB! :D
May 06 21:11:34 <ka6sox> uh oh
May 06 21:11:54 <rahil> it's strange though...just bought the cable like 2 weeks ago and it's given me no other problems
May 06 21:11:55 <PRU_EVTOUT_2> lol, i'll open it to look at it, but at this point, i'll probably wait a few weeks before trying to port my stuff over.
May 06 21:11:56 <levi> Cables are cheap, frustration caused by marginal or bad cables is expensive if your time and mental state are worth anything to you. :)
May 06 21:12:16 <PRU_EVTOUT_2> although, this will give me a chance to write a nice pinmux debug sysfs interface.
May 06 21:12:53 <rahil> yeah, i'll probably put it aside, and try to figure out what's wrong with it when I have more time
May 06 21:12:56 * ka6sox tries to remember if those registers are Write Only or not...
May 06 21:13:36 <levi> If it cost enough to bother with that, you probably ought to look at buying your cables elsewhere!
May 06 21:14:12 <ka6sox> Monoprice, where is they are bad you don't care becuase for the same $30 you bought 30 of them....
May 06 21:14:19 <ka6sox> s/is/if/
May 06 21:14:28 <PRU_EVTOUT_2> this is bull! my BBB box has a slight tear in the corner!
May 06 21:14:30 <PRU_EVTOUT_2> RMA
May 06 21:14:42 <Russ> it's crying?
May 06 21:15:46 <mrpackethead> PRU_EVTOUT_2: dont' come crying here that you can't get ubuntu loaded on it, to play 1080p videos untill you have at least opened your web browser and looked on google
May 06 21:16:13 <levi> I <3 Monoprice
May 06 21:16:35 <ka6sox> for me their "cheap" service has been same day once...
May 06 21:16:36 <PRU_EVTOUT_2> mrpackethead: FINE, can you at LEAST tell me how to plug it in? this cable that came with it kinda losely fits in my ethernet, but i don't see any power lights.
May 06 21:16:56 <mrpackethead> PRU_EVTOUT_2: dont' come crying here that you can't get ubuntu loaded on it, to play 1080p videos untill you have at least opened your web browser and looked on google/
May 06 21:16:57 * ka6sox sends PRU_EVTOUT_2 to the Pound....
May 06 21:17:03 <mrpackethead> PRU_EVTOUT_2: do you still hae the box it came in
May 06 21:17:19 <PRU_EVTOUT_2> i do. rev a5a. is that  the problem? :(
May 06 21:17:20 <ka6sox> PRU_EVTOUT_2, put it back in the box...NOW
May 06 21:17:31 <PRU_EVTOUT_2> ok, literally in the box now.
May 06 21:17:38 <Russ> ka6sox, hooray for norco express
May 06 21:17:39 <PRU_EVTOUT_2> still no power lights (i peaked)
May 06 21:17:45 <PRU_EVTOUT_2> *peeked
May 06 21:17:50 <ka6sox> Russ, yup
May 06 21:17:54 <mrpackethead> PRU_EVTOUT_2: did you put the batterys in it?
May 06 21:18:05 <mrpackethead> or did you get one that deos'tn ahve batterys?
May 06 21:18:17 <mrpackethead> i heard some peopel where getting battery-less ones
May 06 21:18:21 <PRU_EVTOUT_2> crap. brb going to dollar store for batteries. math friend says they're the best.
May 06 21:18:42 <mrpackethead> you can jump start it with a car battery
May 06 21:19:16 <ka6sox> bad mrpackethead ...bad bad!
May 06 21:19:19 <ptan> no you can't, you have to get captured by terrorists first and invent the arc reactor
May 06 21:19:35 <mrpackethead> other option, you can print a battery on your 3d printer
May 06 21:21:46 <Russ> ka6sox, newegg needs to get hooked up with norco express
May 06 21:23:10 <PRU_EVTOUT_2> ok, got some batteries.
May 06 21:23:26 <PRU_EVTOUT_2> it's on fire now.
May 06 21:23:42 <PRU_EVTOUT_2> is the fire supposed to be the boot indicator?
May 06 21:23:47 <PRU_EVTOUT_2> cause, holly crap, it's booting.
May 06 21:24:17 <levi> ptan: Or shot in mall parking lot by terrorists after inventing the flux capacitor.
May 06 21:25:33 <ptan> levi: yeah, but it's hard to find a delorean these days
May 06 21:26:57 <levi> Actually, DMC is back in business.
May 06 21:27:09 <ptan> really?
May 06 21:27:16 <levi> delorean.com
May 06 21:27:48 <ptan> wow... cool, didn't know that.
May 06 21:27:58 <levi> I didn't either until just now.
May 06 21:30:34 <trip0> it's booting while on fire?
May 06 21:30:37 <trip0> sounds smokey
May 06 21:30:44 <levi> So, apparently getting the car is going to be the easy part.
May 06 21:30:54 <levi> Just don't forget the bullet-proof vest.
May 06 21:49:13 <m_billybob> levi and the kilo of coke too right ? wasnt that the reason why delorean went away back in the 70-80's ?
May 06 21:51:23 <mru> nothing to do with 1.21 jigawatts?
May 06 21:54:40 * m_billybob shrugs
May 06 22:00:58 <mrpackethead> has anyone had problems with the BBB and the AUdio cape?
May 06 22:01:08 <mrpackethead> there are reports surfacing of ALSA not finding it
May 06 22:04:59 <ssi> so I read that the audio on the BBB is via hdmi
May 06 22:05:03 <ssi> how does it get to the hdmi framer
May 06 22:05:07 <ssi> is there an i2s link or something?
May 06 22:05:19 <mrpackethead> there is audio on the hdmi, but i'm not talking abou thtat
May 06 22:05:42 <mrpackethead> i need audio in.
May 06 22:05:45 <ssi> oh I know, you just reminded me to ask :)
May 06 22:05:51 <ssi> There is an I2S audio interface between the processor and the TDA19988.
May 06 22:05:52 <ssi> sweet
May 06 22:05:56 <mrpackethead> yup.
May 06 22:06:16 <ssi> I need to see if they're accessible on a header pin
May 06 22:08:06 <levi> Isn't the I2S to get the audio *out* to the TDA19988?
May 06 22:08:06 <ssi> looks like they are
May 06 22:08:14 <ssi> yes
May 06 22:08:23 <ssi> P9 28, 29
May 06 22:08:23 <levi> The McASPs are also designed for audio applications.
May 06 22:08:46 <ssi> I want to pull I2S stream off and consume it from a dedicated dac
May 06 22:08:53 <ka6sox> ssi, you can
May 06 22:09:10 <ssi> I'll have to play with that
May 06 22:09:27 <ssi> what's the audio driver for it?
May 06 22:09:39 <ssi> does it support high bit depth and rate?
May 06 22:09:57 <ka6sox> its part of the DRM driver patches for 3.8 and possibly 3.9 too.
May 06 22:10:14 <levi> The TDA19988 consumes up to 192kbit audio, IIRC.
May 06 22:10:15 <ka6sox> look in patches/hdmi
May 06 22:11:23 <ka6sox> ssi, I did see it in 3.8.11 on the beagleboard/kernel repo
May 06 22:11:27 <ka6sox> (3.8 branch)
May 06 22:11:41 <ssi> cool thanks
May 06 22:11:44 <ka6sox> yw
May 06 22:11:48 <ssi> I see the tda19988 patch
May 06 22:11:57 <ssi> I'll have to do some poking at it... I don't know much about ALSA
May 06 22:12:11 <levi> Has no one written an audio driver for the McASP?
May 06 22:12:32 <ka6sox> levi, this one is for 3.8 with DT
May 06 22:12:38 <ka6sox> the last one was for 3.2 without DT
May 06 22:14:20 <ssi> if i can get that working, a BBB plus wolfson 8741 cape would be a pretty badass little high-res audio streaming target
May 06 22:15:00 <levi> I want to get AVB audio streaming working on mine.
May 06 22:16:19 <mru> anything above 48kHz is overkill
May 06 22:16:29 <mru> for playback
May 06 22:16:54 <mru> for music _production_ 24bit/96kHz or better is necessary
May 06 22:17:04 <levi> Can someone tell me what's up with the ginormous pile of patches in the beagleboard kernel github repo?
May 06 22:17:37 <ssi> mru: I mostly agree, but with the right speakers it makes some difference
May 06 22:17:44 <mru> nope
May 06 22:18:03 <mru> you can't possibly hear the difference
May 06 22:18:12 <ssi> ok
May 06 22:18:13 <ssi> http://www.theonion.com/articles/man-who-enjoys-thing-informed-he-is-wrong,7057/
May 06 22:19:01 <PRU_EVTOUT_2> ssi: for the right headphones it definitely makes a difference :)
May 06 22:19:26 <PRU_EVTOUT_2> what topology does that dac use? skimming the datasheet, i don't see it.
May 06 22:19:26 <mru> 48kHz is enough to reproduce anything up to 22kHz which is above the human audible limit
May 06 22:20:04 <ssi> 48 khz is enough to reproduce anything up to 24khz with at least 1 bit of precision
May 06 22:20:23 <mru> yes, 24
May 06 22:20:28 <mru> I was thinking of 44.1
May 06 22:20:33 <ssi> PRU_EVTOUT_2: uhm... I know its voltage out rather than current out
May 06 22:20:36 <mru> which is the CD sample rate
May 06 22:20:40 <ssi> PRU_EVTOUT_2: beyond that I'm not sure what you're asking
May 06 22:20:45 <mru> and 16 bits gives you 96 dB dynamic range
May 06 22:20:50 <mru> that's plenty
May 06 22:21:03 <mru> most music is well below 60 dB
May 06 22:21:04 <ssi> yes but reread what I said... at the nyquist limit, you have one bit of precision
May 06 22:21:27 <PRU_EVTOUT_2> mru: 16 bits, if you're listenning to a full scale sine wave. :)
May 06 22:22:05 <mru> sine wave or not doesn't matter
May 06 22:22:39 <PRU_EVTOUT_2> well, that's not true. my music has very complex waveforms, and is virtually never full scale
May 06 22:22:43 <mru> _any_ signal that's band-limited to 24 kHz can be reconstructed from a 48 kHz sampling
May 06 22:23:04 <PRU_EVTOUT_2> usually, it's just a fraction of full scale.
May 06 22:25:36 <PRU_EVTOUT_2> if you're saying 16 is enough, and want 16 usable bits during any portion of an actual, sane level, recording, you're going to have to go to 24 or 32.
May 06 22:27:22 <mru> so you're saying your music is badly mastered
May 06 22:28:23 <PRU_EVTOUT_2> i'm saying i'm not on the what seems to be "compress everything to a square wave" mastering bandwagon.
May 06 22:28:35 <PRU_EVTOUT_2> which seems to be reversing somewhat.
May 06 22:29:00 <ssi> PRU_EVTOUT_2: yeah... as is the "16/44.1 is enough for everyone" and "CDs are the pinnacle of audio technology" bandwagons
May 06 22:30:56 <PRU_EVTOUT_2> well, i agree with him. i think 16/44.1 is fine for consumer audio.
May 06 22:31:38 <PRU_EVTOUT_2> but that assumes that the consumer doesn't have the equipment or care to actually her anything better.
May 06 22:31:54 <levi> mru: That's the theory, but the math involves infinite sequences, perfect sampling, and perfect interpolation. Actual DAC/ADC hardware doesn't correspond exactly to the sampling theorem equations.
May 06 22:31:56 <PRU_EVTOUT_2> and i think that's a pretty safe assumption.
May 06 22:32:12 <mru> levi: good hardware is close enough
May 06 22:32:34 <mru> _compressed_ music is another matter
May 06 22:32:48 <mru> modern music usually survives it ok
May 06 22:32:49 <PRU_EVTOUT_2> but, if you don't compress, you're not going to get anywhere near 16 bits.
May 06 22:33:03 <mru> but I can't stand listening to classical music with any kind of lossy compression
May 06 22:33:49 <levi> Now you're talking mp3-type compression rather than audio mastering type compression, right?
May 06 22:33:57 <ka6sox> mru,  you are just a FLAK
May 06 22:34:02 <ka6sox> whops
May 06 22:34:04 <ka6sox> FLAC
May 06 22:34:51 <mru> dynamic range compression is another matter
May 06 22:35:20 <mru> modern music rarely exceeds 40 dB dynamic range
May 06 22:35:24 <mru> and that's being generouss
May 06 22:36:01 <ds2> so it can fit in 6 bits?
May 06 22:36:02 <mru> a symphony orchestra can easily reach 80 dB or so
May 06 22:36:16 <levi> Classical music has way more dynamic range. Makes it difficult to listen to in a noisy car.
May 06 22:36:18 <ds2> 7 bits I guess
May 06 22:36:18 <mru> which still fits easily in 16 bits with proper mastering
May 06 22:37:49 <ka6sox> levi tell me about it
May 06 22:38:36 <ka6sox> DAB is capable of more than the environment can handle
May 06 22:38:53 <mru> in a noisy environment you need some dynamic range compression
May 06 22:39:14 <mru> so you can stay above the noise floor without getting too loud
May 06 22:39:22 <ds2> mru: so you are saying we can store modern music as 8 bit of uLaw data
May 06 22:39:24 <ds2> ?
May 06 22:39:34 <mru> quite possibly
May 06 22:39:38 <mru> I haven't tried
May 06 22:39:47 <ds2> interesting claim
May 06 22:39:51 <mru> I'd rather not listen to justin bieber at all
May 06 22:39:55 <ds2> hahaahhaah
May 06 22:40:00 <mru> but I doubt he'd be worse in ulaw
May 06 22:40:12 <ds2> 8bit uLaw @ 44KHz sample rate
May 06 22:40:29 <wickedshell> hey, having an issue with ethernet networking on my beaglebone black, only the left green status LED is lighting up, and I have no indications in DMESG of it connecting or functioning. Anyone had this problem before?
May 06 22:40:33 <levi> mru: Yes, but classical recordings aren't mastered that way, and aside from a 'loudness' button most car stereos don't have much in the way of tweakable signal processing.
May 06 22:40:35 <ds2> so we run 6 telephone lines in parallel... or a 1/4 of a T1
May 06 22:40:35 <mru> sample rate and bit depth are unrelated
May 06 22:40:52 <ds2> yes
May 06 22:41:04 <ds2> I was trying to collerate that with telephones which is 8KHz
May 06 22:41:16 <ka6sox> currently most of the DAB I work with is 44.1 16bit
May 06 22:42:11 <ds2> ka6sox: why is it 44.1? (vs 48)
May 06 22:42:31 <levi> Because CDs use 44.1
May 06 22:42:37 <ka6sox> ds2, because unless you are in the studio doing nothing is 48khz
May 06 22:42:47 <ka6sox> (or 96kb)
May 06 22:42:48 <levi> Because they had to use 44.1 to fit a full album on a disc.
May 06 22:42:54 <ds2> ka6sox: ohhh... I thought DAT's was the std?
May 06 22:43:02 <mru> levi: not entirely true
May 06 22:43:11 <mru> a CD holds more than an LP
May 06 22:43:31 <ka6sox> what levi said is true...the CD mastering process is all 44.1
May 06 22:43:33 <mru> ds2: DAT is 48kHz
May 06 22:43:36 <levi> It would hold less than it does if it used 48khz sampling instead of 44.1.
May 06 22:43:49 <ds2> mru: yes, hence that's why I thought 48KHz would be more common
May 06 22:44:01 <mru> yes, but an LP is only ~40min while a CD is 70min
May 06 22:44:05 <ds2> 48KHz is a nice mulitple of 8KHz
May 06 22:44:13 <ds2> fits well on a T1
May 06 22:44:13 <mru> going from 44.1 to 48 would still allow a full LP
May 06 22:44:25 <ka6sox> ds2, for recording they use 48/96
May 06 22:44:31 <ssi> LP can be as long or short as you want depending on the output level you're willing to tolerate
May 06 22:44:33 <ka6sox> but for mastering its *all* 44.1
May 06 22:44:39 <mru> a lot of it has to do with thing being nice multiples of other thingss
May 06 22:44:40 <ds2> I see
May 06 22:44:47 <mru> especially when video is involved
May 06 22:45:10 <ds2> which then has a lot of to do with local powerline freq ;)
May 06 22:45:15 <mru> you want the audio and video clock ratio to be a nice rational number
May 06 22:45:42 <ka6sox> so how did ATSC get to be 19.39Mb aggregate :P
May 06 22:45:49 <levi> A lot of really screwy stuff ends up being related to how screwed up video is.
May 06 22:45:59 <ka6sox> probably what they could fit in 6mhz with 8vsb
May 06 22:47:13 <ka6sox> levi,  the muxes for TV transmission do bitstealing on the fly...its scary.
May 06 22:47:28 <mru> the 59.94fps thing has to do with interference patterns between the chroma subcarrier and the 60Hz power line
May 06 22:48:17 <ka6sox> no moire patterns on your TV
May 06 22:48:19 <ds2> and that it is close enough that existing B&W tv sets can lock into it
May 06 22:48:24 <prpplague> biot: ping
May 06 22:48:33 <biot> prpplague: pong
May 06 22:48:37 <ka6sox> ds2, um....what decade are you living in?
May 06 22:48:44 <levi> So, I guess the bit about the LP length is indeed a bit of 'folk history'. At least according to Wikipedia, 44.1kHz is mostly due to VCR PCM adapters.
May 06 22:48:51 <ds2> ka6sox: that comes from when NTSC started
May 06 22:48:54 <ka6sox> existing BW tv sets dont' exist...
May 06 22:48:57 <ka6sox> oh right
May 06 22:49:04 <prpplague> biot: quick, any usb temp loggers you recommend that work with sigrok?
May 06 22:49:05 <ka6sox> but today we don't think in terms of NTSC.
May 06 22:49:12 <levi> Video is still controlled by the legacy of B&W television.
May 06 22:49:18 <levi> It's scary.
May 06 22:49:21 <ds2> yes but NTSC rears its legacy
May 06 22:49:37 <ka6sox> NTSC will be gone in 2016
May 06 22:49:46 <ds2> 'chroma subcarrier' is the ~3.57MHz color burst, right?
May 06 22:49:54 <ds2> long live NTSC :D
May 06 22:50:03 <ka6sox> yes, 3.579mhz
May 06 22:50:10 <biot> prpplague: we only support two currently, both cheap stuff: the lascar EL-USB series and the MIC 9858x
May 06 22:50:43 <prpplague> biot: ahh
May 06 22:50:46 <mru> btw, a few years ago in a hotel I randomly ran into one of the guys who invented ntsc
May 06 22:50:53 <mru> that was interesting
May 06 22:50:54 <prpplague> biot: http://www.mccdaq.com/usb-data-acquisition/USB-TEMP-Series.aspx
May 06 22:51:07 <ka6sox> mru, I'll bet
May 06 22:51:22 <ds2> mru: did he argue for or against "compatible" color?
May 06 22:51:35 <mru> he admitted pal did a better job
May 06 22:51:48 <mru> but they were the first to do it at all
May 06 22:51:52 <biot> prpplague: that seems VERY expensive for a bunch of thermocouples
May 06 22:51:53 <ds2> PAL is at 4MHz subcarrier, right?
May 06 22:51:57 <ka6sox> except for the flicker of 50hz crud
May 06 22:52:09 <mru> ds2: there are many variants of pal
May 06 22:52:15 <ds2> PAL-UK
May 06 22:52:29 <ka6sox> how about SECAM?
May 06 22:52:30 <ds2> I know some places have PAL with 3.57MHz, IIRC
May 06 22:52:41 <mru> ka6sox: pal with a french twist
May 06 22:52:41 <ds2> isn't that a frog problem?
May 06 22:53:00 <ka6sox> ya, gotta be just different to say "NIH" to PAL :P
May 06 22:53:04 <mru> what pal does is solve the drift problem
May 06 22:53:12 <ka6sox> yup
May 06 22:53:21 <levi> I was astounded when I first discovered that digital video over DVI/HDMI is clocked just like analog video is.
May 06 22:53:22 <ka6sox> however that should be gone by now
May 06 22:53:23 <ds2> so that's why pal is PAL and not Never The Same Color?
May 06 22:53:38 <mru> indeed
May 06 22:54:00 * mru thought it was Never Twice Same Color
May 06 22:54:21 <ds2> ah yes
May 06 22:54:55 <mru> and you had a knob to adjust it
May 06 22:55:48 <levi> DisplayPort is finally moving away from fixed-clock video transmission.
May 06 22:55:56 <mru> uh?
May 06 22:56:25 <mru> dp is packet based, yes
May 06 22:56:37 <mru> but there's still a pixel clock
May 06 22:56:42 <levi> Well, the clock rate of data transmission is not the video clock.
May 06 22:56:54 <mru> there'd better be a relation
May 06 22:57:02 <mru> or you'll be losing frames
May 06 22:57:07 <mru> or duplicating them
May 06 22:57:29 <ds2> you don't want the receiver to be buffering it?
May 06 22:57:36 <ds2> everyone likes a nice and laggy display
May 06 22:57:38 <mru> buffers are finite
May 06 22:57:41 <Shadyman> So, http://www.stuffistumbledupon.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/rage-comics-derp-herp-herpina-like-a-boss-determined-rageguy-trollface-ceral-guy-okay-guy-foreve36.jpg
May 06 22:57:50 <ds2> memory is cheap...just put infinite amounts in there
May 06 22:58:06 <ka6sox> ds2, address lines aren't
May 06 22:58:06 <Shadyman> Will the next BBone revision use http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/614108247221/732-4345-2-ND/3908857 ?
May 06 22:58:12 <ds2> java works...why not follow that approach in HW :)
May 06 22:58:35 <mru> ok, now you're clearly trolling
May 06 22:58:41 <mru> you said j***
May 06 22:58:48 <ds2> :D
May 06 22:59:20 <Shadyman> mru: Moreso, ds2 implied that "it" "works"
May 06 22:59:22 * Shadyman squints.
May 06 22:59:52 <mru> it works in the sense that it keeps numerous people in employment
May 06 22:59:52 <levi> I'm not clear on exactly what clock drives the DP transmission, but clocks for video and audio data are recovered from data embedded in the stream packets.
May 06 23:00:44 <mru> I haven't read the dp spec in detail, but the transmitted video data and the displayed images must be somehow synced up
May 06 23:01:39 <mru> of course if your link clock is high enough, you can insert a gap between video packets
May 06 23:02:10 <mru> but the link layer is a minor detail
May 06 23:04:53 <Dark_Fox> Hi guys. I'm considering buying a beagleboard black. What do you guys think of it, as compared to other embedded PCs?
May 06 23:05:04 <mru> it's awesome
May 06 23:05:12 <ka6sox> simply the BEST!
May 06 23:05:21 <mru> what do you want to do with it?
May 06 23:05:24 <levi> It's awesome, but I don't think of it as an embedded PC really.
May 06 23:05:26 <ds2> beyond words
May 06 23:05:50 <ka6sox> Beagle Fanbois....whats this world coming to...
May 06 23:06:32 <mru> fanbois all the way down
May 06 23:07:10 <Dark_Fox> I've been thinking about using it as maybe a Tomcat webserver, or for Software Defined Radio
May 06 23:07:51 <Dark_Fox> Or maybe hooking it up to one of those 3d goggles.. Can't remember the name of them off the top of my head
May 06 23:08:53 <ds2> Just Do It!
May 06 23:09:26 <Dark_Fox> My only concern is that it uses an ARM processor instead of an x86 processor, though
May 06 23:09:53 <ds2> I'd think one would be more concerned there are still x86 processors.
May 06 23:09:54 <mru> arm or x86 is irrelevant
May 06 23:09:59 <mru> speed is what matters
May 06 23:10:05 <mru> if it's fast enough, it's fast enough
May 06 23:10:31 <Dark_Fox> Well, I'm just concerned that some software packages or drivers won't be compatible with the architecture
May 06 23:10:45 <Dark_Fox> Also, is it possible to expand the RAM at all?
May 06 23:11:07 <levi> Some software packages or drivers undoubtedly won't be compatible.
May 06 23:11:08 <ka6sox> Dark_Fox, I know folks who use beagles for SDR
May 06 23:11:09 <ka6sox> and NO
May 06 23:11:14 <mru> ram is soldered
May 06 23:11:20 <Dark_Fox> Hrm..
May 06 23:11:30 <mru> it is _possible_ to remove it and solder a different chip
May 06 23:11:45 <mru> levi: most software works just fine
May 06 23:11:51 <mru> if not, we can usually fix it
May 06 23:12:02 <levi> Most open source software, anyway.
May 06 23:12:14 <mru> well, yeah
May 06 23:12:21 <mru> you can't run x86 binaries
May 06 23:12:28 <wickedshell> anyone had an issue with ethernet on beaglebone black? Because I can't do anything with it atm
May 06 23:12:38 <mru> should be fine
May 06 23:12:47 <levi> Works fine for me.
May 06 23:12:59 <mru> it's only 100Mbps of course
May 06 23:13:20 <levi> Look for 'initializing cpsw version 1.12 (0)' in your logs.
May 06 23:13:21 <Dark_Fox> Hrm.. Now I just need to find somewhere that has them in stock in the USA
May 06 23:13:31 <wickedshell> yeah, I'm using it with the same cables/wall jack as before and having no joy
May 06 23:13:53 <mru> Dark_Fox: just order from any official distributor
May 06 23:13:54 <wickedshell> only my green status LED is lighting up atm on it, and software sees its exsistence but nothing further
May 06 23:14:00 <mru> the sooner you order, the sooner you'll have it
May 06 23:14:08 <ds2> you can run x86
May 06 23:14:17 <mru> in qemu, suree
May 06 23:14:22 <mru> but you don't want to do that
May 06 23:14:25 <ds2> was thinking of bochs but sure
May 06 23:14:51 <wickedshell> Dark_Fox, if you give digi-key a call before ordering they give you pretty accurate resuluts on how long before in stock (they told me one day and shipped it on that day as said)
May 06 23:15:35 <Dark_Fox> wickedshell: I'll keep that in mind, thank you
May 06 23:16:26 <mru> the sooner you place an order, the earlier you'll be in the queue
May 06 23:20:04 <levi> "Two link rates are supported, 2.7Gbps and 1.62Gbps per lane. The link rate is decoupled from the pixel rate. The pixel rate is regenerated from the link symbol clock using the time stamp values M and N."
May 06 23:20:44 <mru> so there's still a fixed pixel clock
May 06 23:20:51 <mru> it's just not directly tied to the link clock
May 06 23:20:54 <mru> details
May 06 23:21:15 <mru> but a bit more complex to implement in the sink
May 06 23:21:22 <levi> Well, that's what I meant.
May 06 23:21:40 <mru> there's not much of a practical difference
May 06 23:22:06 <levi> Sure there is. You can drive multiple displays at different and unrelated pixel clocks.
May 06 23:22:42 <Bumble-Bee> thats a point is the BBB's HW able to do 1080p video, or is that the reason for the current limit ?
May 06 23:22:47 <mru> multiplexing multiple displays on a single link is again an implementation detail
May 06 23:24:30 <levi> Bumble-Bee: The HDMI framer is capable of doing 1080p, but I'm not sure about the video output of the main processor.
May 06 23:24:50 <mru> there's some limit to the pixel rate
May 06 23:25:17 <Bumble-Bee> levi humm i know it has the power to do 1080 decoding
May 06 23:25:20 <levi> Certainly you're not going to be able to decode 1080p h.264 video files in real time, either.
May 06 23:25:25 <mru> Bumble-Bee: really?
May 06 23:25:41 <mru> the beagle classic and xm can display 1080p24
May 06 23:25:42 <Bumble-Bee> if you can offload it to DSP / SGX
May 06 23:25:52 <mru> there is no dsp
May 06 23:25:58 <mru> sgx can't decode video
May 06 23:26:08 <Bumble-Bee> humm
May 06 23:26:12 <levi> Beaglebone uses a Sitara part, not an OMAP.
May 06 23:26:15 <mru> the dm3730 can only barely do 720p
May 06 23:26:19 <mru> with dsp support
May 06 23:26:21 <Bumble-Bee> fair enough :P
May 06 23:26:50 <ds2> mru: thought you had it at 720p w/NEON?
May 06 23:27:03 <levi> mru: Anyway, what aspect of video transport *isn't* an implementation detail?
May 06 23:27:17 <mru> ds2: not in general
May 06 23:27:29 <ds2> ahh
May 06 23:27:54 <mru> levi: depends on which part you're working on
May 06 23:28:06 <mru> to an application it doesn't matter whatsoever
May 06 23:28:20 <mru> of course it can make a difference to the video driver
May 06 23:28:35 <mru> since it's in charge of setting up the displays
May 06 23:29:43 <ds2> I wonder if anyone makes a FPGA with an A9 hard core in there
May 06 23:30:19 <mru> xilinx does
May 06 23:31:37 <ds2> hmmm
May 06 23:31:54 <levi> I just think it's encouraging that the DisplayPort transport itself isn't tied to legacy pixel clock timing. Seems like it could be liberating to video hardware designers.
May 06 23:32:15 <mru> I don't see why
May 06 23:32:38 <mru> and I don't see why you call it 'legacy'
May 06 23:33:06 <levi> Doesn't raster-scanning video data into a digital frame buffer seem odd to you?
May 06 23:33:10 <mru> it's a biological necessity to have a constant refresh rate
May 06 23:33:26 <mru> _into_?
May 06 23:34:10 <mru> unless you're calling the lcd panel itself a frame buffer
May 06 23:34:13 <mru> which in a sense, it iss
May 06 23:34:40 <mru> but a random-access lcd panel is not practical nor useful
May 06 23:36:03 <levi> Why not?
May 06 23:36:20 <mru> do you know anything about how lcd panels are made?
May 06 23:36:33 <BrickedAlready> Could anybody spare a moment to help me trouble-shoot an issue?
May 06 23:36:44 <mru> BrickedAlready: what's troubling you?
May 06 23:37:30 <BrickedAlready> I just plugged in a beagleboneblack (i got it today), but the LEDs usr0 usr1 and usr2 are constantly on, and its inaccessible over ssh
May 06 23:37:42 <BrickedAlready> I just got it, and I haven't tried to flash the memory yet.
May 06 23:37:50 <levi> Not really, no.
May 06 23:38:07 <thurgood> did ou plug a monitor into it yet?
May 06 23:38:17 <mru> levi: directly addressing individual pixels would require a tremendous amount of wiring
May 06 23:39:23 <Bumble-Bee> BrickedAlready have you attempted to update it via SD card ?
May 06 23:40:37 <BrickedAlready> The issue is I don't yet have a bootable SD card. I was about to use it to create one.
May 06 23:41:29 <wickedshell> BrickedAlready, ssh over ethernet or usbnet?
May 06 23:42:27 <terisk> BrickedAlready: were you ever able to ssh to it?
May 06 23:42:37 <BrickedAlready> I was able to once before
May 06 23:42:42 <BrickedAlready> over both ethernet and usb
May 06 23:43:08 <terisk> BrickedAlready: during that did you try a opkg upgrade?
May 06 23:43:40 <BrickedAlready> terisk: yeah, could that be the problem?
May 06 23:44:03 <terisk> BrickedAlready: It shouldn't be, but it is. https://groups.google.com/forum/#!category-topic/beagleboard/beaglebone-black/G_QjWvBNXvc
May 06 23:44:34 <thurgood> opkg upgrade fails more often than it works.. by a large margin
May 06 23:44:37 <mru> levi: an lcd panel is essentially a glorified shift register
May 06 23:45:04 <terisk> BrickedAlready: You need to image the mSD card from a pc with an SD slot.
May 06 23:45:16 <BrickedAlready> That's exactly my problem. I'll think I'll avoid angstrom from now on.
May 06 23:45:44 <BrickedAlready> Any distro recommendations?
May 06 23:45:48 <thurgood> angstrom isn't the problem specifically
May 06 23:46:15 <thurgood> did you see instructions telling you to run `opkg upgrade` anywhere?
May 06 23:46:34 <terisk> BrickedAlready: angstom isn't all bad. just need to work out some issues.
May 06 23:46:42 <thurgood> it's like a little red shiny button I suppose
May 06 23:47:00 <terisk> thurgood: "ooo, latest and greatest"
May 06 23:47:11 <thurgood> it does seem like it would solve potential problems if you've never tried it before
May 06 23:47:17 <BrickedAlready> yeah. I use arch on everything else, so its an impulse of mine to update when I can.
May 06 23:47:35 <mru> levi: at the lowest level, the pixels are updated one at a time by row/column
May 06 23:47:36 <thurgood> but I've never seen instructions telling people to actually use it
May 06 23:47:43 <PRU_EVTOUT_2> opkg update always fails for me if i don't specify a temp dir.
May 06 23:47:50 <mru> but exposing that level of control would need thousands of wires
May 06 23:47:55 <mru> width+height
May 06 23:48:01 <mru> that's not practical
May 06 23:48:28 <mru> so pixels are sent serially into some control circuitry that distributes them properly
May 06 23:49:03 <BrickedAlready> BTW, the guys having the LCD argument. You'll either access the pixels using multiplexing or serially. You'll have a rough time finding a display that lets you access them individually.
May 06 23:49:12 <BrickedAlready> Who's asking?
May 06 23:49:20 <thurgood> btw, BrickedAlready I'm not intending to be insulting... I've run it too expecting good things
May 06 23:50:22 <PRU_EVTOUT_2> what would be the benefit of single access? just do single access into teh frame buffer. who cares what the lowest possible level of the hardware is doing.
May 06 23:50:33 <BrickedAlready> thurgood: No offense taken. I just have to go warn my peers before we have to flash all four of these.
May 06 23:50:42 <mru> PRU_EVTOUT_2: that's what I'm saying
May 06 23:50:54 <thurgood> fair enough
May 06 23:51:00 <mru> and it's usually more practical to have the framebuffer locally
May 06 23:51:03 <levi> If you're doing video, sure, you want to refresh the entire panel at your video rate.
May 06 23:51:07 <mru> there are remote framebuffer displays
May 06 23:51:23 <mru> but that's really only practical for rather limited resolutions
May 06 23:51:39 <mru> or low refresh rates
May 06 23:52:00 <levi> But if the panel were self-refreshing, and you could update only portions of the screen, you could display GUIs and whatnot at high resolution without a powerful processor.
May 06 23:52:22 <mru> you just described a graphics card
May 06 23:52:33 <PRU_EVTOUT_2> wait, what does processor power have to do with video?
May 06 23:52:55 <mru> it's almost always more practical to have the frambuffer local
May 06 23:53:02 <thurgood> on the beagle...?
May 06 23:53:09 <mru> and scan it out over some link or other
May 06 23:53:17 <PRU_EVTOUT_2> the video hardware is responsible for clocking out the physical signal, not the processor. all the processor should do is modify a chunk of memory....the frame buffer.
May 06 23:53:53 <PRU_EVTOUT_2> although...bitbanging video signals is fun.
May 06 23:54:07 <PRU_EVTOUT_2> "nooo! my interrupt extended my front porch!"
May 06 23:55:39 <levi> Well, I do think up crazy stupid ideas sometimes. Fortunately, I don't tend to hold on to them once I figure out they're stupid.
May 06 23:55:56 <mru> there are interfaces like mipi dsi
May 06 23:57:53 <mru> but remote framebuffer interfaces in general end up sending more data across the link than a simple pixel stream would
May 06 23:57:56 <mru> for a full-frame update
May 06 23:58:42 <mru> and you almost always end up with a shadow framebuffer anyway
May 07 00:00:37 <Shadyman> If anyone's curious, Digikey is expecting 8,433 BBone Blacks by May 11th.
May 07 00:00:53 <mru> production is still ramping up
May 07 00:01:05 <Shadyman> :)
May 07 00:03:55 <thurgood> that's more than a couple... wonder how many are presold
May 07 00:06:05 <Shadyman> dunno, i'm tossing one into my next parts order
May 07 00:06:20 <Shadyman> so $168 parts order :3
May 07 00:06:30 <Shadyman> for proto
May 07 00:07:13 <rbarris> "We have shipped a total 10,839 boards to date. As more boards ship, the number will be updated." - http://circuitco.com/support/index.php?title=BeagleBoneBlack
May 07 00:08:01 <Shadyman> ship ALL THE BONES!!!1
May 07 00:08:03 <Shadyman> :3
May 07 00:08:24 <prpplague> Shadyman: "a bunch"
May 07 00:08:33 <Shadyman> I'll take it.
May 07 00:08:47 <mru> prpplague: isn't it "a pack" of beagles?
May 07 00:09:23 <m_billybob> not wiuld, so would be "pile" :P
May 07 00:09:27 <m_billybob> not wild*
May 07 00:09:29 <rbarris> btw there are such things as LCD panels with integral framebuffer for smart self-refresh, so the attached SoC can get into deeper sleep than if it had to refresh from its DRAM all the time.
May 07 00:09:54 <rbarris> aka "smart panels"
May 07 00:09:59 <mru> rbarris: an active matrix lcd panel will retain the image indefintely without refresh
May 07 00:10:09 <mru> that's why they don't flicker
May 07 00:10:18 <rbarris> then i guess those phone makers are all out to lunch
May 07 00:10:28 <rbarris> but maybe we are not talking about the same type of panel.
May 07 00:12:10 <rbarris> http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/article/Introducing-the-Panel-Self-Refresh-Technology/1384
May 07 00:12:16 <mru> and I don't see how it has _any_ relation to the audible difference of 16 vs 24-bit audio
May 07 00:12:38 <rbarris> alas, I joined late and scrolled back in haste
May 07 00:14:33 <mru> displays generally get unhappy if they can't find a pixel clock to sync to
May 07 00:15:32 <mru> this seems to add some commmands advising the display that the link is about to go away and it should retain the last image
May 07 00:15:40 <mru> how it does that is up to the display maker
May 07 00:16:15 <terisk> has anyone used PyBBIO on the 3.8 kernel?
May 07 00:17:31 <mranostay> it won't work
May 07 00:17:34 <ds2> just go eink
May 07 00:17:40 <ds2> no refresh or power needed
May 07 00:18:13 <mru> "I don't always refresh, but when I do, I do it with a flicker"
May 07 00:18:57 <terisk> mranostay: I figured as much, but I didnt know if an effort had been made to remap bindings
May 07 00:20:29 <mranostay> well iirc pybbio does horrible mmap magic too
May 07 00:26:54 <rbarris> mru, here is a device (tcon) that embodies the PSR idea incl a local framebuffer..  http://www.paradetech.com/products/displayport-lcd-timing-controller-products/dp633-643-653-edp-psr-tcons/
May 07 00:27:25 <rbarris> I've seen both dumb and smartpanels in phone designs
May 07 00:28:01 <mru> ooooh, "an innovative on-chip DRAM"
May 07 00:28:16 <mru> how is that different from a regular onchip dram?
May 07 00:28:19 <PRU_EVTOUT_2> mranostay: what's horrible about mmap for pybbio? it's insanely faster.
May 07 00:28:30 <mru> but also insane
May 07 00:28:35 <rbarris> mktg fluff, beside the point
May 07 00:28:48 <PRU_EVTOUT_2> writing a bit corresponding to a pin isn't that insane.
May 07 00:29:04 <mru> no, but mmap(/dev/mem) iss
May 07 00:29:33 <mru> what's so hard about making a proper kernel driver?
May 07 00:29:36 <PRU_EVTOUT_2> this is what the pru driver does, isn't it?
May 07 00:30:03 <PRU_EVTOUT_2> what's the alternative, besides writing a kernel driver to give you the mmap?
May 07 00:30:21 <mru> what's wrong with doing that?
May 07 00:35:44 <PRU_EVTOUT_2> nothing wrong with it, but it's a lot of effort to enforce, literally, two integer values (address + mmap size).
May 07 01:10:02 <AlreadyBricked> Hello, its me again! When flashing the beagle bone black with the angstrom image, will the leds be flashing?
May 07 01:15:27 <Bumble-Bee> AlreadyBricked for about 45min
May 07 01:15:37 <Bumble-Bee> then when its done they will all be lit
May 07 01:15:41 <Bumble-Bee> woooop
May 07 01:15:44 <Bumble-Bee> Current FPS = 15.000000
May 07 01:16:05 <Bumble-Bee>  webcam capture with openCV 2.4.5
May 07 01:16:42 <xenoxaos> awesome!
May 07 01:16:55 <AlreadyBricked> currently they are all off. When I boot they do the usual default pattern, but then they go off.
May 07 01:17:00 <Bumble-Bee> thats on a 15fps cam
May 07 01:24:46 <m_billybob> mine seems to stay in the heartbeat blink pattern indefinately
May 07 01:25:49 <m_billybob> root@beaglebone:~# uptime
May 07 01:25:49 <m_billybob>  12:31:39 up 19:31,  1 user,  load average: 1.30, 1.35, 1.37
May 07 01:40:17 <RPIvet> Do the LEDs blink when one flashes the beagle bone black with the provided image?
May 07 01:45:50 <MH_> yes but not in any specific pattern
May 07 01:47:22 <MH_> this page shows what the led activity means http://beagleboard.org/Getting%20Started
May 07 01:59:03 <MH_> anyone doing 16bit or greater adc with a beaglebone?  If so, what additional hardware did you choose?
May 07 02:04:21 <levi> Oh, hey, the .bb for the kernel answered my question about the pm firmware. Well, half of it anyway.
May 07 02:05:24 <wickedshell> alright, slightly further elboration on my ethernet issues: http://pastebin.com/nAV7JLYL anyone had similar problems?
May 07 02:05:26 <levi> Does TI supply the source for that somewhere, or is it expected to be a black box?
May 07 02:06:19 <ka6sox> what bb are you referring to levi
May 07 02:06:26 <levi> bbb
May 07 02:06:35 <levi> Oh, .bb
May 07 02:07:09 <levi> The kernel linux-mainline_3.8.bb
May 07 02:08:23 <ka6sox> MH_, ADS8344
May 07 02:08:25 <levi> I noticed while reading the TRM that there was a M3 core dedicated to managing power states, and it mentioned a firmware blog for it.
May 07 02:08:35 <levi> Er, blob, not blog.
May 07 02:08:52 <ka6sox> yes, power manglement...right
May 07 02:08:55 <levi> wickedshell: Looks like it's not seeing your phy for some reason.
May 07 02:09:19 <wickedshell> levi, agreed, not sure why its the stock image out of the box, I've done nothing with it yet past usbnet into it....
May 07 02:09:43 <wickedshell> never had an issue like that before though and am rather confused on how to fix it
May 07 02:10:09 <levi> Well, you may have to RMA it. :(
May 07 02:10:53 <wickedshell> that would.... be unremittingly terrible lol :P was aiming to just drop in in place where I had been using a bealge bone :P
May 07 02:11:15 <wickedshell> I have a second one still in wrapping I haven't tried yet... I guess I could plug that one in :P
May 07 02:11:18 <levi> Well, the one you get back would presumably work better.
May 07 02:13:50 <MH_> ka6sox Thanks this is the chip I've been leaning towards.
May 07 02:15:08 <wickedshell> levi, yeah looks like I'll RMA it... my other BBB works flawlessly and is on the internet with the same setup...
May 07 02:16:20 <levi> The only other thing you might try is enabling some debug in the MDIO kernel code or something to see what's going wrong.
May 07 02:17:15 <wickedshell> willing to try it, if you can tell/point me at how to do that
May 07 02:18:04 <mrpackethead> https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/603652_10151591556047661_371745916_n.jpg
May 07 02:18:24 <mrpackethead> woof woof!
May 07 02:19:15 <prpplague> mrpackethead: hehe
May 07 02:19:27 <mrpackethead> actualy that woudl have been woof, woof, woof, woof
May 07 02:20:57 <levi> wickedshell: I don't know exactly how; most of my experience with TI's cpsw stuff was in QNX.
May 07 02:24:23 <mrpackethead> prpplague: aaah.. what do i do now.. the bbb is
May 07 02:24:29 <mrpackethead> well, its not doing anythign
May 07 02:24:48 <mrpackethead> can anyone help
May 07 02:24:52 <wickedshell> no leds?
May 07 02:25:00 <mrpackethead> whats a led
May 07 02:25:10 <mrpackethead> do i need to take it out of the box
May 07 02:25:32 <wickedshell> *sigh* lol
May 07 02:26:06 <ka6sox> MH_, thats what I've been using for a long time..
May 07 02:26:30 <mrpackethead> ka6sox: update..  We'll make some panels up
May 07 02:26:37 <mrpackethead> with the various FPGA boards on
May 07 02:26:44 <mrpackethead> they are sending me the gerbers tommorrow
May 07 02:27:54 <MH_> ka6sox  Are there any boards for the bone with this chip?  My plan was to start off with the ADS8344EVM and go from there.
May 07 02:28:35 <wickedshell> *sigh* after installing wireless driver I'm getting no HDMI output, and the following dmesg errors http://pastebin.com/yqRRayzq ethernet still works though this time :P
May 07 02:54:48 <ka6sox> MH_, thats what I am using
May 07 02:56:57 <MH_> ka6sox Good to know! Thanks!
May 07 02:58:31 <mogen317> Hello, I did an "opkg update" & "opkg upgrade" on my BB black and now I've lost the mini USB mass storage/network/ssh/node.js functionality.  No more heartbeat LED flashing either.  Any help?
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue May 07 02:59:59 2013