**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Jul 08 02:59:59 2013
Jul 08 03:46:21 <_av500_> whyaduck? why not a chicken?
Jul 08 03:59:32 <mranostay> _av500_: er?
Jul 08 04:15:31 <Gest> hi there... I need to download the kernel running on my beagleboard xM C2 (Angstrom linux 2.6.32) ... How/from where can I get the exact kernel source code?
Jul 08 04:25:25 <Gest> hi there... I need to download the kernel running on my beagleboard xM C2 (Angstrom linux 2.6.32) ... How/from where can I get the exact kernel source code?
Jul 08 04:28:11 <scoobydoo> Hello
Jul 08 04:28:29 <scoobydoo> I have a question/questions
Jul 08 04:29:17 <scoobydoo> My beagle bone black should be here Monday, my intentions for it is a desktop computer that is somewhat portable.
Jul 08 04:31:58 <mranostay> ok is that a questio?
Jul 08 04:35:06 <scoobydoo> No...My question is, do I just boot it up with a power/ethernet/hdmi connected to a screen and it's ready set go out the box
Jul 08 04:35:26 <scoobydoo> Or...am I going to be doing a bunch of other things prior to that
Jul 08 04:41:09 <scoobydoo> sup bleeter
Jul 08 04:52:19 <Gest> hi there... I need to download the kernel running on my beagleboard xM C2 (Angstrom linux 2.6.32) ... How/from where can I get the exact kernel source code?
Jul 08 04:58:02 <av500> koen: http://www.reichelt.de/?ARTICLE=132351&SID=13UWuwDn8AAAIAACEjgK4c9fd14bc92dfd1fa4fa6215ad4d87447
Jul 08 04:58:13 <av500> not that 3D is mainstream, isnt it boring?
Jul 08 04:58:17 <av500> now*
Jul 08 05:01:02 <maxinux> yeah
Jul 08 05:01:53 <mranostay> 4D now?
Jul 08 05:03:09 * emocakes builds a time machine and puts it on kickstarter
Jul 08 05:03:30 <mranostay> av500: you have a DSLR right?
Jul 08 05:03:42 <emocakes> mranostay i have a small camera
Jul 08 05:04:14 <mranostay> emocakes: yeah i have an iphone too :P
Jul 08 05:05:13 <emocakes> yup :p, my 5dm3 is pretty small
Jul 08 05:05:27 <av500> mranostay: yes
Jul 08 05:05:36 <av500> why?
Jul 08 05:05:42 <mranostay> av500: nikon or cannon?
Jul 08 05:05:50 <av500> canon of course :)
Jul 08 05:05:53 <mranostay> thinking of getting one
Jul 08 05:05:58 <av500> get one
Jul 08 05:07:03 <emocakes> get a canon
Jul 08 05:07:10 <emocakes> try get a full frame one if you can afford it
Jul 08 05:07:17 <av500> +1
Jul 08 05:07:21 <emocakes> if not, get one you can run magic lantern at least
Jul 08 05:07:39 <av500> and remember, the body is the "cheap" part of the DSLR system :)
Jul 08 05:07:46 <emocakes> ;)
Jul 08 05:07:51 <emocakes> L series lens <3
Jul 08 05:08:32 <av500> mranostay: but to be honest a x00 series camera with even the stock lens gets you pretty fart
Jul 08 05:08:39 <av500> -t
Jul 08 05:08:42 <av500> :)
Jul 08 05:09:43 <mranostay> av500: what do you have?
Jul 08 05:09:53 <av500> 500D
Jul 08 05:09:56 <av500> stock zoom
Jul 08 05:10:03 <av500> and a 70-210/f2.8
Jul 08 05:10:08 <TLoFP1> the beaglebone black soc supports gigabit ethernet, any ideas why the beagle bone black does not support gigabit?
Jul 08 05:10:17 <av500> eratas
Jul 08 05:10:25 <TLoFP1> does gigabit require different hardware on the board? was it too dificult to route?
Jul 08 05:10:38 <av500> Gerald explained it on the mailing list
Jul 08 05:10:50 <TLoFP1> why would somebody decide not to take advantage of this capability?
Jul 08 05:11:03 <TLoFP1> and has any work been done to retrofit the bbb with gigabit capability?
Jul 08 05:11:10 <av500> no
Jul 08 05:11:11 <mranostay> TLoFP1: i'll bet too much noise
Jul 08 05:11:21 <av500> TLoFP1: no retrofit possible
Jul 08 05:11:29 <TLoFP1> av500: why not?
Jul 08 05:11:35 <av500> [07:10:38] <av500> Gerald explained it on the mailing list
Jul 08 05:12:03 <TLoFP1> av500: do you have a link so that I can read up on this ?
Jul 08 05:12:07 <mranostay> av500: the ph0rums. get it right :)
Jul 08 05:12:15 <av500> sure, I can google one for you :)
Jul 08 05:12:39 <av500> http://markmail.org/message/n2glxkxtfqhoursj
Jul 08 05:12:45 <Gest> av500:hi there... I need to download the kernel running on my beagleboard xM C2 (Angstrom linux 2.6.32) ... How/from where can I get the exact kernel source code?
Jul 08 05:12:51 <TLoFP1> thanks
Jul 08 05:14:59 <mranostay> hehehe
Jul 08 05:15:38 <TLoFP1> what is a "PHY"
Jul 08 05:16:35 <TLoFP1> from google i guess that it is the plug which receives the ethernet copper yes?
Jul 08 05:18:02 * mranostay loves this channel :)
Jul 08 05:19:38 <TLoFP1> ok, I don't understand this
Jul 08 05:20:16 <TLoFP1> the datasheet of the soc says it supports gigabit ethernet, then why is an ADDITIONAL external chip needed to get the ethernet? (aka the Ethernet PHY) ?
Jul 08 05:24:08 <mranostay> SoC is connected to the phy
Jul 08 05:24:28 <TLoFP1> then whats special about the SoC?
Jul 08 05:24:42 <TLoFP1> it seems like it is simply connected to the PHY via a standard serial bus
Jul 08 05:25:03 <mranostay> you have any idea about circuit design? :)
Jul 08 05:25:24 <TLoFP1> mranostay: very little, please elaborate
Jul 08 05:29:03 <av500> the "PHY" is the "phyical" connection between SoC and cable
Jul 08 05:29:07 <av500> physical
Jul 08 05:29:18 <av500> the SoC itsleft cannot drive an ethernet connection
Jul 08 05:29:39 <av500> and the serial "bus" is not standard
Jul 08 05:29:42 <av500> its gigabit after all
Jul 08 05:29:56 <TLoFP1> av500 ok
Jul 08 05:30:10 <av500> why do you need gigabit on the bone?
Jul 08 05:30:33 <TLoFP1> so the phy is like a driver (for LED) or w/e (it has to be capable of differential signals? drive some amount of power and capacitance I assume)
Jul 08 05:30:50 <av500> yes
Jul 08 05:31:00 <TLoFP1> and the SoC is gigabit capable if it supports the industry standard serial connection to a PHY device
Jul 08 05:31:21 <TLoFP1> av500 thanks alot I now have a decent understanding
Jul 08 05:31:48 <TLoFP1> btw, I am interested in gigabit because I plan to have the primary storage be on the network
Jul 08 05:32:07 <TLoFP1> so all the data collected by the bbb is directly writen to an NFS mount
Jul 08 05:32:20 <av500> and you collect 1 gigabit of data?
Jul 08 05:33:25 <mranostay> that is probably going to be memory bound
Jul 08 05:35:42 <TLoFP1> av500 about 230 MBit/s
Jul 08 05:36:13 <TLoFP1> I imagine there will be alot of overhead, so possible 500 MBit/s or so of traffic on the network
Jul 08 05:36:56 <TLoFP1> 128 24 bit (32 bit transfer) ADCs sampled at 60k/s
Jul 08 05:37:23 <av500> ic
Jul 08 05:37:31 <av500> you'll have a hard time getting that stored locally
Jul 08 05:37:38 <av500> a USB drive goes up to ~20MB/s
Jul 08 05:38:06 <TLoFP1> thats why I was hoping to never store it locally
Jul 08 05:38:14 <TLoFP1> just read form adc and dump onto the network
Jul 08 05:38:38 <av500> sorry, not on BBB
Jul 08 05:38:52 <TLoFP1> ok
Jul 08 05:39:06 <mranostay> what are you reading via ADC that needs that bandwidth?
Jul 08 05:39:47 <TLoFP1> mranostay: SQUIDS
Jul 08 05:40:37 <TLoFP1> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SQUID
Jul 08 05:40:49 <TLoFP1> not even close to our tech but it gives you an idea of what the devices are
Jul 08 05:42:55 <mranostay> TLoFP1: university project?
Jul 08 05:45:09 * LetoThe2nd wonders how you would even get 128x32bit@60kS *into* a BBB before storing it
Jul 08 05:45:43 <LetoThe2nd> or, translated to: "the BBB is not for you, get adequate hardware" :P
Jul 08 05:45:43 <TLoFP1> mranostay: yes
Jul 08 05:46:00 <TLoFP1> LetoThe2nd: msg received
Jul 08 05:46:16 <TLoFP1> think im going to have to learn some FPGA stuff now
Jul 08 05:47:44 <LetoThe2nd> if its not the measurement technique *itself* but rather the data you care about, better ahve your department cough up some money and buy what you need.
Jul 08 05:48:13 <TLoFP1> LetoThe2nd: I am interested in the technique
Jul 08 05:48:31 <TLoFP1> anyhow, time to sign off, thanks guys
Jul 08 05:49:11 <dm8tbr> sounds like a job for a FPGA with GBIT
Jul 08 05:49:31 <LetoThe2nd> dm8tbr: sounds like a job for your favorite measurement gear FAE
Jul 08 05:49:38 <dm8tbr> that too
Jul 08 05:50:55 <LetoThe2nd> having all that reliably working, synced up, and at least with a certain amount of robustness is something that is way beyond "will have to read up on it", even if "read up" might take one or two years.
Jul 08 05:51:27 <dm8tbr> absolutely
Jul 08 05:52:35 <LetoThe2nd> and as there are a lot of companies specialized in that stuff... reinventing sounds like a waste of resources.
Jul 08 05:53:31 <dm8tbr> not if you're in for the learning experience, but otherwise, yes absolutely
Jul 08 05:53:42 * LetoThe2nd gets that "you did not tell me what i wanted to hear" experience again.
Jul 08 05:53:53 <dm8tbr> :>
Jul 08 05:54:20 <dm8tbr> did he already buy the BBB? that makes the pain even more 'tangible'
Jul 08 05:54:44 <LetoThe2nd> dm8tbr: someone who calls {R,G,}MII "some serial interface" and wonders why "retrofitting" might be a problem... well, better should not do measurement electronics ;)
Jul 08 05:55:09 <dm8tbr> :>
Jul 08 05:55:32 <LetoThe2nd> </$.02>
Jul 08 05:56:06 * dm8tbr calls RG-8 and 2" cellflex also 'some coax cable', still has been doing SHF measurements successfully
Jul 08 05:56:56 <LetoThe2nd> dm8tbr: i did not realize that you are working in the field of Super Hero Frequency reasearch :P
Jul 08 05:57:31 <dm8tbr> I don't (currently)
Jul 08 05:58:15 <dm8tbr> but I did some courses e.g. while doing my exchange year at TUT.fi
Jul 08 05:58:30 <dm8tbr> OH3HNY is a very good teacher
Jul 08 05:59:08 <dm8tbr> to make it more funny at that time I was oficially studying 'International Business Management'
Jul 08 05:59:23 <LetoThe2nd> hrhrhr
Jul 08 05:59:26 <dm8tbr> my home university gave me a quizzical look when they saw some of my courses
Jul 08 06:13:55 <Aks_Ram> hi, i just started working on embedded linux.. i want to know how i can port a linux kernel that i download from kernel.org to the beagle board
Jul 08 06:14:35 <av500> its already ported
Jul 08 06:14:53 <av500> if you really mean "porting"
Jul 08 06:15:02 <Aks_Ram> is there some patches that i need to add to the kernel or will just cross compiling using omap2plus_defconfig work>>
Jul 08 06:16:19 <av500> no
Jul 08 06:16:28 <av500> tons of patches
Jul 08 06:17:06 <av500> https://github.com/beagleboard/kernel/tree/3.8
Jul 08 06:18:49 <Aks_Ram> do i need to apply all those patches to the normal linux kernel in order to make it work on the beagle board??
Jul 08 06:20:43 <dm8tbr> I thought vanilla at least booted ;)
Jul 08 06:25:28 <Aks_Ram> can someone share links to websites where i can understand how to configure and compile a normal linux kernel to run on the beagle board
Jul 08 06:28:56 <av500> mainline does not fully support the beagebone yet
Jul 08 06:29:00 <av500> https://github.com/beagleboard/kernel/tree/3.8
Jul 08 06:29:04 <av500> this tree ^^^^^^^ does
Jul 08 06:31:29 <mranostay> av500: omap is $@!#ed? :)
Jul 08 06:33:12 <Aks_Ram> thanks av500
Jul 08 06:35:15 <Aks_Ram> is it possible to run any basic kernel module program on beagle board using insmod command ?
Jul 08 06:37:11 <mranostay> heh
Jul 08 06:38:02 <av500> Aks_Ram: Beagle runs Linux
Jul 08 06:38:07 <av500> Linux has loadable modules
Jul 08 06:40:26 <Aks_Ram> yes, but i order to insert the .ko file i have to first compile it but the kernel headers are not present in the rootfs to compile the module program
Jul 08 06:41:07 <av500> ah
Jul 08 06:41:15 <av500> maybe you need to opgk install some package
Jul 08 06:41:20 <av500> do opkg update
Jul 08 06:41:22 <av500> opkg list
Jul 08 06:41:23 <av500> and see
Jul 08 06:42:13 <Aks_Ram> ok, thanks for the info
Jul 08 06:42:35 <Aks_Ram> hey av500 can i get ur email id ??
Jul 08 06:50:15 <av500> ???
Jul 08 06:50:17 <av500> what for?
Jul 08 06:50:20 <av500> send me money?
Jul 08 06:50:56 <_Sy_> Morning, another lovely day :)
Jul 08 06:53:11 <Aks_Ram> lol..no i have a lot of doubts reagrding embedded linux and u seem to be an expert.. :)
Jul 08 06:53:52 <av500> and you think I will engage in a 1:1 teaching session with you?
Jul 08 06:56:41 <_Sy_> that went well :)
Jul 08 06:56:50 <av500> perserverant he is not
Jul 08 06:57:00 <_Sy_> lol
Jul 08 06:58:39 <panto> moaning
Jul 08 06:58:44 <_Sy_> Need someone to insert crank and wind me up today, no energy to do anything...want to go back to bed
Jul 08 06:59:01 <_Sy_> morning panto
Jul 08 06:59:05 <panto> hi _Sy_
Jul 08 06:59:09 <panto> that's monday for you
Jul 08 06:59:23 <_Sy_> yep...
Jul 08 07:05:05 <Coolman22> hello
Jul 08 07:05:25 <Coolman22> i was trying to do an input example with the beaglebone black.
Jul 08 07:05:40 <Coolman22> i had a simple push button.
Jul 08 07:06:17 <Coolman22> i attached one end to the 3.3v, one to ground. and i also attached a resistor to the same loop as ground and plugged that into p9:11
Jul 08 07:06:27 <Coolman22> which is gpio0_30
Jul 08 07:06:41 <Coolman22> board turned straight off.
Jul 08 07:06:46 <Coolman22> didnt even push the button
Jul 08 07:06:57 <Coolman22> im powering by usb
Jul 08 07:07:10 <Coolman22> any advise?
Jul 08 07:07:47 <Coolman22> no one awake that can help?
Jul 08 07:09:46 <LetoThe2nd> try to draw a schematic and pastebin it, but probably you short shorted VCC to ground.
Jul 08 07:09:51 * LetoThe2nd is AFK
Jul 08 07:11:16 <KotH> greetings, fellow JIHADists!
Jul 08 07:13:17 <av500> that poor NSA analyst
Jul 08 07:13:50 <panto> av500, this channel will give NSA fits
Jul 08 07:14:03 <_Sy_> sorry was away
Jul 08 07:14:03 <panto> (and to it's members a surprise enema at an airport)
Jul 08 07:14:47 <av500> enema of the state
Jul 08 07:15:21 <Coolman22> hmmm
Jul 08 07:15:33 <Coolman22> did all the helpers leave?
Jul 08 07:15:42 <Coolman22> i know those guys gotta sleep
Jul 08 07:16:05 <av500> KotH: did I tell you about the 2 middle east students we have that wanted to build a remote control as a semester project
Jul 08 07:16:10 <av500> we had*
Jul 08 07:16:25 <Coolman22> nothing wrong with a remote control
Jul 08 07:16:35 <Coolman22> you can use that to control things from a distance
Jul 08 07:17:39 <Coolman22> had...
Jul 08 07:19:02 <KotH> av500: nope, you didnt
Jul 08 07:19:12 <KotH> mru: what post did you want me to see?
Jul 08 07:19:20 <KotH> mru: both av500 and mranostay failed :)
Jul 08 07:20:37 <KotH> Coolman22: no help can be given without an exact description (aka wiering digram) of what you did
Jul 08 07:20:46 <KotH> Coolman22: and helpers do sleep, trolls dont
Jul 08 07:21:29 <mru> KotH: just a pic of sign reading 'FREE TAX'
Jul 08 07:21:41 <KotH> free tax? huh?
Jul 08 07:21:52 <KotH> mru: have you been in asia-land over the weekend?
Jul 08 07:22:06 <mru> and sleeper trolls?
Jul 08 07:22:12 <av500> ...keep on taxing in a free world....
Jul 08 07:27:40 <mru> KotH: and, I was not in asia
Jul 08 07:32:33 <mru> only brussels
Jul 08 07:36:52 <KotH> oh.. well.. french people have sometimes the same english capabilities as asians ^^'
Jul 08 07:39:54 <av500> KotH: worse
Jul 08 07:45:05 <KotH> av500: french people run away in panic when you speak english?
Jul 08 07:45:29 <BeagleGithub> [kernel] koenkooi pushed 3 new commits to 3.11: http://git.io/409rcw
Jul 08 07:45:30 <BeagleGithub> kernel/3.11 90b1701 Zubair Lutfullah: Added IIO to Kconfig...
Jul 08 07:45:30 <BeagleGithub> kernel/3.11 df03bb4 Zubair Lutfullah: Added ADC patches...
Jul 08 07:45:30 <BeagleGithub> kernel/3.11 b956dfc Koen Kooi: Merge pull request #47 from ZubairLK/3.11...
Jul 08 07:52:17 <ant_work> koen: I tried to upload to the feed server but it lacks my ssh key apparently. Whom should I send it?
Jul 08 08:07:40 <koen> ant_work: uploading is disabled till the PRSERV mess gets sorted out :(
Jul 08 08:07:53 <koen> olnly a single autobuilder can upload now
Jul 08 08:08:08 <ant_work> I see
Jul 08 08:09:14 <ant_work> about versions for oe-core, v2012.12 comes as default but I se there are newer ones. Testing?
Jul 08 08:10:03 <ant_work> Is one based on Yocto 1.4?
Jul 08 08:10:40 <ant_work> koen: I saw last narcissus commit limiting to 2012.12 so I stopped there
Jul 08 08:55:38 <mrpackethead> how are we all today
Jul 08 08:59:42 <mru> bored
Jul 08 08:59:55 <mrpackethead> i wished i was bored
Jul 08 09:00:05 <mrpackethead> i've got too much to do to be bored.
Jul 08 09:00:05 <av500> bothered
Jul 08 09:00:34 <mru> av500: can we have an emergency friday please?
Jul 08 09:01:11 <mru> http://26-26-54.hardwarebug.org/181
Jul 08 09:02:53 <LetoThe2nd> http://26-26-54.hardwarebug.org/18
Jul 08 09:03:13 <LetoThe2nd> mru: funny how the "1" at the end of the string fits :)
Jul 08 09:04:29 <mru> heh
Jul 08 09:04:44 * KotH declares ETERNAL FRIDAY!
Jul 08 09:05:31 <mrpackethead> this week is
Jul 08 09:05:36 <mrpackethead> F F F F F F F
Jul 08 09:05:52 <mrpackethead> im a bit grumpy with myself.
Jul 08 09:06:01 <mrpackethead> for designing somethign that dones'nt work very well
Jul 08 09:08:02 * KotH pats mrpackethead on his head
Jul 08 09:08:14 <KotH> there there.. it will be all well... after the next redesign ;)
Jul 08 09:09:59 <panto> and the next
Jul 08 09:10:02 <panto> and the one after that
Jul 08 09:10:20 <panto> before we die, I'm sure we'll get to design something that works like we wanted to be
Jul 08 09:10:47 <KotH> i'm sure, by that time, there is an IC that does all that and more
Jul 08 09:11:54 <panto> right, and the guy that made it isn't going to be very happy with the way it turned out
Jul 08 09:12:03 <KotH> exactly
Jul 08 09:12:47 <mrpackethead> KotH: one chip that does everything
Jul 08 09:12:51 <mrpackethead> without programming
Jul 08 09:12:55 <mrpackethead> you just have to think about it
Jul 08 09:13:03 <mrpackethead> and it appears
Jul 08 09:13:41 <KotH> thus will be the future of electronics!
Jul 08 09:14:31 <KotH> the oracle has spoken!
Jul 08 09:14:32 <panto> don't hold your breath for it
Jul 08 09:17:08 <mrpackethead> Ripple currnets are my problem today
Jul 08 09:17:19 <mrpackethead> thats "analog" for you digital cowboys
Jul 08 09:18:42 <KotH> lol
Jul 08 09:19:08 * KotH just gave up calculating the ripple current of an alu cap, and just took the next bigger one
Jul 08 09:19:14 <mrpackethead> lol.
Jul 08 09:19:25 <mrpackethead> I was designing and old school psu the other day
Jul 08 09:19:38 <mrpackethead> you know one with a transformer designed to work at 50hz
Jul 08 09:19:47 <mrpackethead> and some capacitors
Jul 08 09:20:09 <mrpackethead> i only needed 120,000uF @ 25V to get acceptably low ripple
Jul 08 09:20:20 <KotH> well, the project is a low production count design, hence my time costs more than a bigger cap
Jul 08 09:20:35 <mrpackethead> but ripple ain't hard KotH
Jul 08 09:20:36 <KotH> holy chocolate! batman!
Jul 08 09:20:41 <KotH> 120mF?
Jul 08 09:20:47 <KotH> what kind of ripples do you have?
Jul 08 09:21:04 <mrpackethead> chocolate ripple, strawberry ripple and banana ripple
Jul 08 09:21:15 <KotH> mrpackethead: the cap costs <5CHF, 5min of my time is more expensive
Jul 08 09:21:39 <mrpackethead> yes.
Jul 08 09:21:42 <KotH> and we shouldnt have any ripples in the first place (unless the PSU misbehaves)
Jul 08 09:22:21 <mrpackethead> Not so many people know the impact of Ripple on high power leds.
Jul 08 09:22:34 <mrpackethead> its bad for long life.
Jul 08 09:23:20 <mrpackethead> anyway, now i jsut need to rework it slightly
Jul 08 09:23:33 <mrpackethead> i need a 500khz, clock ( thereabouts )
Jul 08 09:23:46 <KotH> ah..
Jul 08 09:23:55 <KotH> we dont have anything at that power rail
Jul 08 09:24:11 <mrpackethead> and a way to create four 90 degree seperated outptus
Jul 08 09:24:24 <KotH> it's just the input filter, so we do not get any weird effects in case the microwave generator couples back to the PSU
Jul 08 09:24:40 <mrpackethead> i have four modules running in parrallel, they need to be running at the same clock rate
Jul 08 09:24:44 <KotH> from that power rail we have DC/DC and LDOs that give another round of filtering
Jul 08 09:24:50 <mrpackethead> but not in pahse
Jul 08 09:25:02 <KotH> sounds nice
Jul 08 09:25:09 <av500> 3phase is easy
Jul 08 09:25:19 <av500> get it from your local supplier
Jul 08 09:25:27 <av500> it comes in thick black cables
Jul 08 09:25:37 <av500> slap some diodes and run some leds
Jul 08 09:25:40 <KotH> mrpackethead: using 2MHz and a divide by 4?
Jul 08 09:25:41 <av500> wait, leds are diodes
Jul 08 09:25:49 <av500> easy
Jul 08 09:26:10 <mrpackethead> that does'nt help me KotH!
Jul 08 09:26:14 <KotH> why not?
Jul 08 09:26:27 <mrpackethead> cause then i still have 1 500k signal
Jul 08 09:26:53 <KotH> oh.. not the standard divider circuit, but the "i have one bit running around" circuit
Jul 08 09:27:11 <KotH> gives you 4 500kHz signals, all shifted by 90°
Jul 08 09:27:52 <av500> just get some RCs in there
Jul 08 09:28:07 <av500> analog man
Jul 08 09:29:18 <KotH> mrpackethead: alternatively, if this is too expensive, make a ring oscillator with 4 elements, each element consisting of an R/C and an inverter
Jul 08 09:29:26 <KotH> mrpackethead: this will give you approximately 90°
Jul 08 09:30:45 <mrpackethead> a 180 degree swap is easy
Jul 08 09:31:05 <KotH> yes
Jul 08 09:31:09 <mrpackethead> wonder how fast i can make a small pic bit bang
Jul 08 09:31:30 <KotH> 500kHz? should be easy
Jul 08 09:31:43 <KotH> these bugs are running >20MHz these days
Jul 08 09:31:59 <jacekowski> and 4 cycles per instruction
Jul 08 09:32:07 <KotH> jacekowski: still?
Jul 08 09:32:09 <jacekowski> yes
Jul 08 09:32:11 <av500> picbang all the things
Jul 08 09:32:20 <KotH> jacekowski: i thought that was something of the past... ^^'
Jul 08 09:32:24 <jacekowski> nope
Jul 08 09:32:38 <jacekowski> it's internal to the architecture and i doubt they will change it
Jul 08 09:32:47 <jacekowski> not without complete redesign and new architecture
Jul 08 09:32:54 <jacekowski> like pic32 or something
Jul 08 09:32:58 <KotH> hmm... that makes >5Mc/s, approx 5instr per loop -> 1MHz output
Jul 08 09:33:24 <jacekowski> i can make it go bang faster than that
Jul 08 09:33:26 <KotH> jacekowski: most people changed that kind of design in the early 90s, because it requires a 4 times as fast clock
Jul 08 09:34:01 <jacekowski> that's why you have new pic32's and friends
Jul 08 09:34:16 <jacekowski> but older pics have to stay like that for many different reasons
Jul 08 09:34:23 <jacekowski> you can't just change architecture like that
Jul 08 09:34:58 <jacekowski> it would be like saying to people, "go and buy atmel"
Jul 08 09:35:17 <flufmnstr> i have a 3x3 LED matrix setup and when the gnd is connected to the BB Black the heart bead slows down very slow, then the files system goes readonly. am i pulling to much current?
Jul 08 09:35:18 <mrpackethead> http://flyingprofessors.net/what-happened-to-asiana-airlines-flight-214-2/
Jul 08 09:35:54 <KotH> flufmnstr: how much current do you pull?
Jul 08 09:36:01 <KotH> flufmnstr: and how much is it per pin?
Jul 08 09:36:23 <KotH> flufmnstr: answering your question should be possible for yourself, if you'd look up the datasheet
Jul 08 09:36:39 <flufmnstr> 20ma leds. but the GPIOs are tripping transistors
Jul 08 09:36:50 <av500> well
Jul 08 09:37:01 <av500> check your schematic
Jul 08 09:37:24 <flufmnstr> i plug the same circuit into my RPi and it runs fine
Jul 08 09:38:07 <av500> maybe you plug it wron
Jul 08 09:38:08 <av500> g
Jul 08 09:38:10 <av500> we cant say
Jul 08 09:38:12 <av500> we dont see it
Jul 08 09:38:30 <jacekowski> using gpios to drive anything directly is not really a good idea
Jul 08 09:39:04 <mrpackethead> jacekowski: you gotta drive somethign with the GPIO directly dont' you
Jul 08 09:39:18 <mrpackethead> or how do you do anything?
Jul 08 09:39:25 <KotH> he does it without current
Jul 08 09:39:33 <jacekowski> not the load directly
Jul 08 09:39:50 <flufmnstr> thats what the transistors are for
Jul 08 09:39:56 <mrpackethead> anything you attach is a load
Jul 08 09:40:00 <KotH> well, you are aware that even the input of a logic gate is a non-negligible load?
Jul 08 09:40:09 <KotH> mrpackethead: gtma :)
Jul 08 09:40:23 <jacekowski> i typically use a not gate for stuff like that
Jul 08 09:40:25 <mrpackethead> gtma?
Jul 08 09:41:00 <mrpackethead> getting the message across?
Jul 08 09:41:19 <mrpackethead> great minds think alike.
Jul 08 09:41:33 <flufmnstr> so, hould i pass it through something like this? http://www.circuitgizmos.com/products/cguln2803/uln2803.jpg
Jul 08 09:41:35 <mrpackethead> ITs not the German Trademark Asssocaition
Jul 08 09:41:35 <jacekowski> and i'm paranoid about my input/output protection
Jul 08 09:41:54 <KotH> mrpackethead: er.. yes, gmta
Jul 08 09:42:03 <av500> flufmnstr: your schematic online somewhere?
Jul 08 09:42:08 <KotH> mrpackethead: my left hand types faster than my right ^^'
Jul 08 09:42:24 <jacekowski> typically i design my stuff so that you can connect it wrong in any way you imagine (including 400V AC into 24VDC inputs/oututs)
Jul 08 09:42:34 <mrpackethead> had a long session at the fab factory today
Jul 08 09:42:35 <jacekowski> and it will not blow up
Jul 08 09:42:58 <mrpackethead> we figured if we made 100 beagle-clone-reds, they would cost us about USD$130 each to make
Jul 08 09:43:08 <mrpackethead> even if we did'nt include any of our time!
Jul 08 09:43:10 <KotH> jacekowski: you've either too much money, or dont produce anything in more than single pieces for DAUs
Jul 08 09:43:33 <KotH> mrpackethead: red?
Jul 08 09:43:40 <jacekowski> nah, profit margins on stuff we do are so high that it doesn't matter
Jul 08 09:43:45 <mrpackethead> yes, our protoboards are always red
Jul 08 09:43:53 <KotH> jacekowski: medical or space? :)
Jul 08 09:43:56 <KotH> jacekowski: or military?
Jul 08 09:44:03 <jacekowski> not really
Jul 08 09:44:04 <mrpackethead> or consumer?
Jul 08 09:44:12 <KotH> mrpackethead: consumer doesnt have such high margins
Jul 08 09:44:26 <KotH> mrpackethead: so, you are cloning bbb and it costs you more than bbb?
Jul 08 09:44:34 <KotH> mrpackethead: why doesnt that surprise me? :)
Jul 08 09:44:45 <mrpackethead> KotH: it was a "thought" experiment
Jul 08 09:44:49 <jacekowski> KotH: bit of both really
Jul 08 09:44:52 <mrpackethead> more than something we ould do.
Jul 08 09:44:58 <jacekowski> KotH: we did stuff for military and hospitals and other places
Jul 08 09:45:01 <jacekowski> KotH: and banks
Jul 08 09:45:20 <mrpackethead> $45 for a bbb, is very economic
Jul 08 09:45:37 <mrpackethead> i hope that TI is paying CCO a lot of money to run this loss-leader
Jul 08 09:45:45 <KotH> jacekowski: ah.. places were you can charge extra w/o fear of getting the project canceled :)
Jul 08 09:46:03 <KotH> mrpackethead: dunno.. they are producing in 10k lots, iirc
Jul 08 09:46:04 <mrpackethead> even at 10k quanitys, we figured it was at least $70
Jul 08 09:46:39 <KotH> mrpackethead: including the cheaper part costs?
Jul 08 09:47:41 <mrpackethead> I am considering a project using an AM3559 though
Jul 08 09:47:47 <mrpackethead> sorry 3359
Jul 08 09:48:06 <mrpackethead> using a lot of "beagle-isms"
Jul 08 09:48:19 <mrpackethead> its a pretty handy device
Jul 08 09:48:36 <jacekowski> KotH: ussualy in those places they tend to pay a lot more for device that will not blow up than have a stack of spares
Jul 08 09:48:38 <mrpackethead> will just push the envelope for me again
Jul 08 09:49:59 <KotH> jacekowski: i know
Jul 08 09:50:12 <KotH> jacekowski: we are in the medical busines ourselves
Jul 08 09:50:23 <mrpackethead> I'm in the medical business.
Jul 08 09:50:27 <KotH> mrpackethead: what are you doing now?
Jul 08 09:50:39 <mrpackethead> I am a customer in the medical business.
Jul 08 09:50:41 <mrpackethead> :-)
Jul 08 09:50:50 <mrpackethead> ha ah
Jul 08 09:51:00 <mrpackethead> the critical part. ie the customer.
Jul 08 09:51:17 <mrpackethead> I saw a kit set for an ECG
Jul 08 09:51:20 <mrpackethead> i'm tempted.
Jul 08 09:51:45 <KotH> nah, i meant the AM3359
Jul 08 09:52:10 <KotH> it doesnt sound like the run of the mill light controller ;)
Jul 08 09:52:35 <mrpackethead> KotH: nthing we do is run of the mill.
Jul 08 09:52:36 <mrpackethead> :-)
Jul 08 09:52:55 <mrpackethead> KotH: our new TL-1 controller, will record 256 univeses of DMX
Jul 08 09:53:03 <mrpackethead> time stamp them
Jul 08 09:53:17 <mrpackethead> then play back in sync with SMTPE LTC time code
Jul 08 09:53:28 <mrpackethead> which is delivered over UHF radio
Jul 08 09:53:33 <KotH> oh.. nice
Jul 08 09:53:50 <mrpackethead> we are decoding the audio
Jul 08 09:53:58 <mrpackethead> from the radio
Jul 08 09:54:10 <mrpackethead> and using that to 'JAM' with the Smpte
Jul 08 09:54:23 <mrpackethead> i can hear the.. "buts"..
Jul 08 09:54:44 <mrpackethead> the device is on its on local network.
Jul 08 09:55:02 * KotH hates it, when there is no absolute maximum rating of chips
Jul 08 09:55:16 <mrpackethead> but it has no ip connectivity to the "outside"
Jul 08 09:55:25 <mrpackethead> wifi is an absolute no-go
Jul 08 09:55:32 * KotH wouldnt voice "buts" easily
Jul 08 09:55:42 <mrpackethead> as we can be competing with 20,000 mobile phoens
Jul 08 09:56:12 <mrpackethead> and running cables..
Jul 08 09:56:19 <mrpackethead> well, tahts not an option either.
Jul 08 09:56:23 <mrpackethead> did i tell you its all moving,
Jul 08 09:56:27 <mrpackethead> sometimes in water
Jul 08 09:56:29 <mrpackethead> L0(
Jul 08 09:56:32 <KotH> and i guess, a custom wireless network costs more than decoding the source of the sync signal anyways
Jul 08 09:56:58 <mrpackethead> SMTPE time code is very widely used in teh show industry
Jul 08 09:57:31 <mru> drop frames ftw
Jul 08 09:57:37 <mrpackethead> and decoding it is actually not that hard
Jul 08 09:57:57 <mrpackethead> i have a bbb, an audio cape and some software
Jul 08 09:57:59 <mrpackethead> and it works nicely
Jul 08 09:58:13 <mrpackethead> can also generate LTC
Jul 08 09:58:16 <mrpackethead> and send it back if i need
Jul 08 09:58:33 <KotH> LTC?
Jul 08 09:58:37 <mrpackethead> Linear Time Code
Jul 08 09:58:41 <mrpackethead> seriously old school
Jul 08 09:58:48 <mrpackethead> they used to encode it on Tape
Jul 08 09:58:50 <mrpackethead> :-)
Jul 08 09:58:50 * KotH knows nothing of that stuff
Jul 08 09:59:06 <tsjsieb> goodmorning
Jul 08 09:59:07 <mrpackethead> 1200hz = 0, 2700Hz = 1
Jul 08 09:59:08 <tsjsieb> what would be the right way to disable getty on the my screen with a systemd image (at image creation time,like the USE_VT="0" seems to do for sysvinit's inittab)
Jul 08 09:59:28 <mrpackethead> you'd generate audio and record it on your multi-track "tape"
Jul 08 09:59:40 <mrpackethead> we are talkign a tech that is 1960's ish
Jul 08 09:59:49 <mrpackethead> it came out of the the movie world
Jul 08 10:01:30 <KotH> today, you have special weatherproof boxes for your imac, so you can do editing out in the field right after filming...
Jul 08 10:06:24 <koen> tsjsieb: remove the symlinks from getty.target.wants/
Jul 08 10:13:35 <BeagleGithub> [kernel] koenkooi pushed 5 new commits to 3.8: http://git.io/a64tvw
Jul 08 10:13:36 <BeagleGithub> kernel/3.8 30dca92 Zubair Lutfullah: ADC fixes. Backport mfd-next , Forward port arago...
Jul 08 10:13:36 <BeagleGithub> kernel/3.8 533af31 Zubair Lutfullah: Removed redundant temp files. ~ ones..
Jul 08 10:13:36 <BeagleGithub> kernel/3.8 3651041 Zubair Lutfullah: Adds the IIO MAP interface required by the bone-helper...
Jul 08 10:44:14 <scanhand> hello
Jul 08 10:44:26 <scanhand> is there anybody?
Jul 08 10:44:45 <scanhand> i have a question.
Jul 08 10:44:45 <mrpackethead> anyone left 10 minutes ago.
Jul 08 10:44:54 <mrpackethead> anyone you in?
Jul 08 10:45:01 <scanhand> please, help me
Jul 08 10:45:24 <mrpackethead> "never ask"
Jul 08 10:45:28 <mrpackethead> just ask.
Jul 08 10:45:33 <mrpackethead> so, just ask the question
Jul 08 10:46:39 <scanhand> i watn to run monodevelop in Beagleboard. ( OS : ubuntu linux)
Jul 08 10:46:56 <scanhand> but occurs error!
Jul 08 10:47:23 <mrpackethead> thats not a question
Jul 08 10:47:41 <scanhand> error is :
Jul 08 10:47:41 <scanhand> at System.Drawing.Font.CreateFont (string,single,System.Drawing.FontStyle,System.Drawing.GraphicsUnit,byte,bool) <0x0013f>    at System.Drawing.Font..ctor (string,single,System.Drawing.FontStyle,System.Drawing.GraphicsUnit,byte,bool) <0x0007f>    at System.Drawing.Font..ctor (string,single,string) <0x00057>    at (wrapper remoting-invoke-with-check) System.Drawing.Font..ctor (string,single,string) <0xffffffff>    at System.Drawing.
Jul 08 10:47:46 <mrpackethead> ahh.
Jul 08 10:47:50 <mrpackethead> pastebin
Jul 08 10:48:22 <scanhand> do you know what kinds of error?
Jul 08 10:48:38 <scanhand> or Why occurs this error?
Jul 08 10:48:50 <mrpackethead> this is the wrong place for this quesiton
Jul 08 10:49:05 <mrpackethead> you need to try a channel that is about mono
Jul 08 10:49:13 <scanhand> ok.
Jul 08 10:49:16 <scanhand> i will.
Jul 08 10:49:20 <scanhand> thank
Jul 08 10:49:42 <mrpackethead> we can help with hardware, distros, kernels
Jul 08 10:50:00 <mrpackethead> but specific software pacakges are generally best dealt with in those channels
Jul 08 10:50:15 <scanhand> OK
Jul 08 10:50:25 * mrpackethead wonders where the next on duty question answer troll is
Jul 08 10:50:26 <scanhand> Thanks you.
Jul 08 11:10:34 <m_billybob> heh either way thats not a very descriptive error message.
Jul 08 11:14:23 <BeagleGithub> [kernel] koenkooi pushed 1 new commit to 3.8: http://git.io/8TdhYg
Jul 08 11:14:24 <BeagleGithub> kernel/3.8 85df7cc Koen Kooi: 3.8: update lcd cape adc channel allocation...
Jul 08 11:26:08 <KotH> mrpackethead: mranostay will get up soon
Jul 08 11:30:18 <Crofton|work> koen, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HfiHOpv6HtI&feature=youtu.be
Jul 08 11:31:37 <panto> Crofton|work, have to wait for one that's an octopus
Jul 08 11:34:12 <koen> Crofton|work: I saw that one, very neat
Jul 08 11:34:48 <panto> great, now I need 26 pwms
Jul 08 11:35:08 <mru> not 54?
Jul 08 11:36:25 <KotH> only if he builds two
Jul 08 11:41:51 <kai> hi folks
Jul 08 11:43:17 <kai> I take it that if you connect +5V to the ground pins on P8 on a bone, you pretty much fry the board?
Jul 08 11:46:04 <panto> err, it's a possibility
Jul 08 11:47:29 <kai> this was a joint project with someone building some electronics and me writing the software running on the bone
Jul 08 11:48:01 <kai> the electronics are running at 5V, and apparently the electronics guy accidently put the +5V on the shared ground lead
Jul 08 11:48:16 <kai> and now "the blue blinking leds aren't blinking"
Jul 08 11:48:46 <kai> so I'm trying to figure out what's going on apart from the box no longer responding on the network
Jul 08 11:49:07 <kai> which could pretty much be due to the shitty wireless in that place
Jul 08 11:54:44 <R2E4> Anyone alive in here?
Jul 08 11:54:50 <panto> no
Jul 08 11:55:00 <R2E4> ah.
Jul 08 11:55:02 <av500> barely
Jul 08 11:55:03 <mru> http://26-26-54.hardwarebug.org/161
Jul 08 11:55:25 <av500> R2E4: hint: just ask
Jul 08 11:56:00 <R2E4> I was looking for a cape that was just inputs and relays. Didnt find one.
Jul 08 11:56:03 <kai> so apparently when plugging in, the power led comes up just once, and goes off again
Jul 08 11:56:14 <R2E4> Would it be very difficult to develop one?
Jul 08 11:56:16 <kai> that really sounds like a dead board
Jul 08 11:56:30 <panto> R2E4, no, not at all
Jul 08 11:56:48 <panto> kai, measure voltages
Jul 08 11:57:11 <R2E4> There allready is the gpio, would it be as simple as small drive circuit for each?
Jul 08 11:57:19 <kai> panto: good point
Jul 08 11:57:32 <panto> R2E4, yes
Jul 08 11:57:48 <R2E4> would like to provide protection....opto's or something
Jul 08 11:58:13 <R2E4> So my other question is what manual to read....
Jul 08 12:06:48 <KotH> kai: 5V from the beagle shorted to gnd?
Jul 08 12:06:49 <kai> panto: there's no voltage between P9_1 and P9_5
Jul 08 12:07:02 <kai> KotH: no, external 5V to gnd
Jul 08 12:07:12 <KotH> kai: then the power supply is probably dead
Jul 08 12:07:18 <panto> RIP bone
Jul 08 12:07:29 <KotH> unless you gave those 5V to the i/o pins as well
Jul 08 12:07:39 <kai> KotH: the bone is connected via usb
Jul 08 12:07:41 <KotH> then it's, as our greek guy said, RIP bone
Jul 08 12:08:07 <av500> one can still ebay it
Jul 08 12:08:21 <av500> maybe some dog wants to chew on it
Jul 08 12:08:52 <KotH> "bbb, untested, might require repair"
Jul 08 12:09:07 <av500> yep
Jul 08 12:09:14 <av500> "found this in my attic"
Jul 08 12:09:27 <av500> "vintage electronics, assorted"
Jul 08 12:17:12 <das> void do_a(void) { while(1) { do_b();} do_b(); }
Jul 08 12:17:16 <das> oh, okay
Jul 08 12:18:24 <av500> .
Jul 08 12:19:58 <das> I guess it's a protection for newer CPUs that could get out of the infinite loop faster
Jul 08 12:25:11 <kai> das: it's to make sure that even if 1 is false, do_b() will run at least once
Jul 08 12:25:25 <kai> and 1 could be false for small values of false
Jul 08 12:25:53 <kai> KotH: ok, so with another PSU it's still dead, so I guess I'll be getting another board.. :/
Jul 08 12:25:55 <av500> das: it makes sure to run infinity+1 times
Jul 08 12:26:06 <av500> so it always runs once more
Jul 08 12:26:07 <KotH> kai: rest in pieces!
Jul 08 12:26:36 <kai> just a bit annoying because we were planning on having it run a prop in a theatre show tonight
Jul 08 12:26:45 <kai> and I doubt I'll be getting a replacement in time
Jul 08 12:26:50 <kai> though...
Jul 08 12:27:20 <kai> the GPIOs on a beagle board work the same way, right?
Jul 08 12:31:13 <kai> so if I want to give my electronics guy the opportunity to fry a 150 eur board in addition to a 50 eur board, I could probably set up a beagleboard?
Jul 08 12:34:28 <av500> yes
Jul 08 12:34:41 <av500> but
Jul 08 12:34:43 <av500> BB is 1.8V
Jul 08 12:34:46 <av500> BBB is 3.3
Jul 08 12:34:47 <av500> IIRC
Jul 08 12:36:27 <R2E4> In the reference manual it says "no serial port by default" and the next page it says serial port via 6 pin ttl.
Jul 08 12:37:25 <R2E4> AH.... its a debug port. can I use it for serial applications?
Jul 08 12:39:50 <panto> sure
Jul 08 12:41:33 <av500> even for serious applications
Jul 08 12:43:45 <R2E4> I need an rs485 port so I can create a converter, since the BB allready has serial interface.
Jul 08 12:52:48 <kai> av500: ah, good point, I'll keep that in mind
Jul 08 13:20:01 <R2E4> ANyone know anything about the beagleboard hardhat expansion project?
Jul 08 13:22:44 <mranostay> *@#$ mondays
Jul 08 13:22:49 <mranostay> morning
Jul 08 13:23:00 <mru> isn't it friday?
Jul 08 13:23:53 <georgem> I wish
Jul 08 13:24:49 * mranostay feels slightly sunburned
Jul 08 13:25:03 <mru> watch out, sun is lethal to trolls
Jul 08 13:25:31 <av500> bu the bikes so fast, sun can't catch him
Jul 08 13:25:50 * georgem recommends hiding under bridges or in caves
Jul 08 13:25:59 <av500> or both
Jul 08 13:26:27 <mranostay> i was on a bridge at the bottom of a waterfall does that count?
Jul 08 13:26:48 <anujdeshpande> was wondering, anyone here used a BBB for a quadcopter ?
Jul 08 13:26:48 <LetoThe2nd> obviously not.
Jul 08 13:26:59 <LetoThe2nd> yay race condition ;)
Jul 08 13:27:01 <av500> why not?
Jul 08 13:27:04 <panto> mranostay, very hipstery photo
Jul 08 13:27:06 <panto> congrats
Jul 08 13:27:19 <KotH> mru: it is friday
Jul 08 13:27:21 <KotH> mru: definitly!
Jul 08 13:27:32 * LetoThe2nd meant to address mranostay with the obviously-not-statement
Jul 08 13:27:36 <georgem> mranostay: saw your pics on google+. Multnomah is pretty awesome.
Jul 08 13:28:46 <av500> mranostay: next time take a real camera
Jul 08 13:28:54 <georgem> +1
Jul 08 13:28:57 <av500> or at least install instagram
Jul 08 13:31:33 <georgem> That reminds me. I've got like 100GB of photos I've taken to sift through. Maybe I should have done that this weekend instead of drinking and setting off explosives... Naah..
Jul 08 13:32:30 <kfoltman> #weekendregrets
Jul 08 13:32:40 <kfoltman> somehow the subject sounds familiar
Jul 08 13:32:53 <mranostay> drinking and explosives sounds like a find way to spend a weekend
Jul 08 13:33:25 <kfoltman> mranostay: ... in hospital?
Jul 08 13:33:26 <mru> highly recommended if you feel you have too many limbs
Jul 08 13:33:35 <panto> -ETOOMANYLIMBS
Jul 08 13:37:36 * LetoThe2nd likes kab00k
Jul 08 13:38:24 <mranostay> kfoltman: who needs pinkys?
Jul 08 13:39:47 <kfoltman> mranostay: brains?
Jul 08 13:39:55 <suihkulokki> tea drinkers?
Jul 08 13:40:25 <kfoltman> mranostay: musicians?
Jul 08 13:40:45 <kfoltman> at least, most of the music for stringed instruments is written for people with a complete set of limbs
Jul 08 13:41:50 <georgem> Used to have a family friend that blew off his thumb with an m80. I stay away from the dangerous stuff for the most part.
Jul 08 13:43:42 * Crofton|work has blown anything up in a while
Jul 08 13:43:49 <Crofton|work> take the PRISM
Jul 08 13:43:53 <av500> one armed people can always play some drums
Jul 08 13:44:49 <kfoltman> av500: was it Motorhead drummer?
Jul 08 13:45:02 <kfoltman> some metal band of the 90's
Jul 08 13:46:45 <LetoThe2nd> Def Leppard
Jul 08 13:47:16 <av500> LetoThe2nd knows his metal
Jul 08 13:47:46 <LetoThe2nd> not really metal, though. more like hairspray marketing with a nice soundtrack. :)
Jul 08 13:56:53 <mranostay> davest: happy monday...
Jul 08 14:08:51 <KotH> mranostay: it's friday!
Jul 08 14:10:05 <mranostay> where the fuck is it Friday? :)
Jul 08 14:11:31 <m_billybob> mars ? saturn ?
Jul 08 14:11:46 <panto> it is here
Jul 08 14:11:54 <panto> av500 is the official friday bringer
Jul 08 14:11:55 <m_billybob> im sure it is friday somewhere in the universe.
Jul 08 14:12:00 <panto> and he has made his decree
Jul 08 14:12:16 <m_billybob> morning btw
Jul 08 14:12:34 * mranostay calls an emergency friday
Jul 08 14:17:11 <georgem> +1
Jul 08 14:39:46 <kfoltman> feels like friday
Jul 08 14:45:33 <gui_> morning everyone
Jul 08 14:46:16 <cli_> good afternoon
Jul 08 14:46:17 <gui_> i'm starting with the beaglebone (white), and i've been trying to enable the SPI by default for over a week
Jul 08 14:46:31 <gui_> i've followed many many tutorials, none of them worked
Jul 08 14:47:17 <gui_> lot's of them say they are enabled by default on 3.8+ kernels, I downloaded both angstrom and ubuntu, but they don't appear
Jul 08 14:47:21 <panto> gui_, echo BB-SPI0 >/sys/devices/bone_capemgr*/slots
Jul 08 14:47:28 <KotH> what have you tried, why did it fail and have you brought chocolate to sacrifice to the gods of #beagle?
Jul 08 14:47:55 <KotH> have you set up your DT properly?
Jul 08 14:47:59 <gui_> first of all, i'd never sacrifice a chocolate with anybody other then myself :P
Jul 08 14:48:12 <KotH> well, then good luck! ;)
Jul 08 14:48:17 <panto> https://docs.google.com/document/d/17P54kZkZO_-JtTjrFuVz-Cp_RMMg7GB_8W9JK9sLKfA/edit?usp=sharing
Jul 08 14:48:25 <panto> that explains everything
Jul 08 14:48:29 <gui_> second, there is one method the *almost* works: http://hipstercircuits.com/enable-spi-with-device-tree-on-beaglebone-black-copy-paste/
Jul 08 14:48:41 <panto> why 'almost'
Jul 08 14:48:43 <panto> it works
Jul 08 14:49:18 <gui_> because there is a command "echo blablaba > blablabla" that I need to run every boot
Jul 08 14:49:37 <gui_> if I do that, then it works
Jul 08 14:49:39 <KotH> taht counts as "works" here
Jul 08 14:49:41 <panto> I wonder what kind of tutorial you read
Jul 08 14:49:54 <gui_> this http://hipstercircuits.com/enable-spi-with-device-tree-on-beaglebone-black-copy-paste/
Jul 08 14:50:11 <panto> have you added capemgr.enable_partno=BB-SPI0 in your kernel command line?
Jul 08 14:50:15 <m_billybob> that works
Jul 08 14:50:19 <KotH> panto: wasnt that the one tutorial, one shouldnt use?
Jul 08 14:50:29 <m_billybob> KotH no it works
Jul 08 14:50:42 <gui_> i was told to add that to the uEnv.txt file
Jul 08 14:50:57 <gui_> does that have the same effect? If so, it did not work
Jul 08 14:51:10 <panto> do you have the latest release?
Jul 08 14:51:23 <gui_> of what?
Jul 08 14:51:23 <panto> this works only on the last release btw
Jul 08 14:51:29 <panto> of the kernel/sw
Jul 08 14:51:33 <gui_> yes
Jul 08 14:51:46 <gui_> 3.8.13? let me check
Jul 08 14:52:05 <panto> and compile date?
Jul 08 14:52:30 <gui_> well, following a different tutorial, I compiled the kernel myself last friday
Jul 08 14:53:07 <gui_> 3.8p13-bone23 #1 SM. Fri Jul 5 12:1l:05
Jul 08 14:53:48 <panto> capemgr.enable_partno=FOO should work
Jul 08 14:53:56 <panto> what does your dmesg output contain?
Jul 08 14:54:00 <panto> pastebin please
Jul 08 14:54:06 <gui_> i have another sd card with angstrom, let me load that one. brb
Jul 08 14:54:54 <gui_> actually, I was told to add capemgr.extra_override, not enable_partno
Jul 08 14:55:06 <gui_> i'll try that too
Jul 08 14:55:22 <panto> there is a difference
Jul 08 14:55:29 <panto> I know, because I've put those options there
Jul 08 14:56:17 <gui_> http://pastebin.com/33QuKnHA
Jul 08 14:56:44 <panto> err, issue dmesg right after boot
Jul 08 14:57:04 <panto> before the crap that windows puts out on the usb connection fill up the buffer
Jul 08 14:57:50 <gui_> how do I do that, please?
Jul 08 14:57:58 <panto> log in quickly
Jul 08 14:58:13 <m_billybob> or dmesg | <overlay name>
Jul 08 14:58:18 <m_billybob> err
Jul 08 14:58:24 <m_billybob> | grep overlay name
Jul 08 14:58:25 <panto> m_billybob, it's no use
Jul 08 14:58:39 <gui_> how quickly? :S
Jul 08 14:58:44 <panto> the buffer is filled with those crappy messages
Jul 08 14:58:48 <m_billybob> dmesg fill up quickly eh ?
Jul 08 14:58:49 <panto> as soon as you can
Jul 08 14:59:13 <panto> or don't connect it to windows and use ssh over ethernet, or the serial port
Jul 08 14:59:36 <m_billybob> or log serial debug ;)
Jul 08 15:00:26 <ka6sox> mourning
Jul 08 15:01:10 <m_billybob> morning
Jul 08 15:01:58 <KotH> JIHAD, ka6sox!
Jul 08 15:02:18 <gui_> i'd love to ssh, but my BB is in a different network. I'll talk with someone here to see if I can plug them in the same router, then I come back
Jul 08 15:02:35 <gui_> thanks for the help
Jul 08 15:02:43 <panto> np
Jul 08 15:03:26 <ka6sox> mourning KotH my wife woke up in a lousy mood....do you think Chocolate is indicated for this patient?
Jul 08 15:03:35 <gui_> and thanks for that kernel doc. i'll take a look
Jul 08 15:03:49 <panto> always
Jul 08 15:04:28 <ka6sox> ya, I think so too
Jul 08 15:05:36 <ka6sox> panto, at what part of the boot process does the eMMC get shut down if I am booting from the uSD?
Jul 08 15:05:51 <panto> when the kernel boots
Jul 08 15:06:04 <KotH> ka6sox: definitly!
Jul 08 15:06:13 <KotH> ka6sox: but you should choose your chocolate wisely!
Jul 08 15:06:23 <panto> the capemgr will detect the conflict and will skip loading the emmc virtual cape
Jul 08 15:06:50 <ka6sox> so moving the boot order resistors is the safest way to absolutely insure the eMMC is not going to run?
Jul 08 15:06:56 <koen> with recent kernels emmc is disabled by default
Jul 08 15:07:01 <koen> so no weird glitches :)
Jul 08 15:07:29 <ka6sox> okay, our cape wasn't loading because of this.
Jul 08 15:07:35 <ka6sox> even though we were loading from uSD
Jul 08 15:07:53 <ka6sox> koen, thanks!
Jul 08 15:08:00 <ka6sox> is this in the latest .13's?
Jul 08 15:08:08 <panto> yes
Jul 08 15:08:16 <ka6sox> :)
Jul 08 15:08:47 <ka6sox> mourning emeb
Jul 08 15:09:41 <emeb> Good Moarning ka6sox
Jul 08 15:10:04 <ka6sox> we should try to load the BCC with a late kernel.
Jul 08 15:10:10 <ka6sox> (and using a uSD)
Jul 08 15:10:33 <emeb> A BBB not using eMMC?
Jul 08 15:20:50 <ka6sox> yes
Jul 08 15:20:55 <ka6sox> emeb, yes
Jul 08 15:20:57 <ka6sox> sorry
Jul 08 15:21:48 <cmicali> koen: are you switching over to focusing on 3.11 instead of 3.8?
Jul 08 15:23:34 <panto> cmicali, 3.11 doesn't work now
Jul 08 15:23:39 <panto> it has been b0rked yet again
Jul 08 15:23:54 <cmicali> ah, was just curious what the status was
Jul 08 15:23:59 <cmicali> when the switch will be made to 3.11+
Jul 08 15:24:05 <cmicali> or rather, moving on from 3.8
Jul 08 15:24:19 <panto> we are rebasing our patchsets
Jul 08 15:24:35 <panto> so when it's relatively stable, we will switch to it for our dev kernel
Jul 08 15:24:47 <panto> but, 3.8 is going to be around for quite a while as the stable tree
Jul 08 15:25:09 <R2E4> Would driving a rs485 chip (max3485) with gpio serial tty level work? theres no control but clock it properly should work?
Jul 08 15:25:57 <cmicali> panto: cool thx - nothing in particular i know of past 3.8.13 that would make a difference to me, but good to know!
Jul 08 15:26:18 <panto> cmicali, we will have new PRU support before long
Jul 08 15:26:44 <panto> perhaps it will be easier to use it for your app
Jul 08 15:26:51 <cmicali> how's that remoteproc stuff going?
Jul 08 15:26:59 <panto> almost complete
Jul 08 15:27:19 <cmicali> yeah it's looking more and more like we will end up using am335x for production, and unless something changes, angstrom it is
Jul 08 15:27:43 <cmicali> although not sure if we'll end up using PRU in production, might use an fpga instead, but we'll see
Jul 08 15:27:57 <cmicali> so far it's been working out surprisingly well
Jul 08 15:28:18 <panto> I know, it's the little cores that could
Jul 08 15:28:51 <panto> it's a bit surprising getting pwm waveforms with no jitter at under 1us with s/w control :)
Jul 08 15:29:33 <cmicali> yeah - i'm trying to select a new a/d chip now, when we do, we'll do a run of 50-100 of our boards
Jul 08 15:29:38 <cmicali> for a beta deployment
Jul 08 15:30:07 <cmicali> turns out it's not that easy to find a high-speed 16bit+ multichannel a/d chip though
Jul 08 15:30:18 <panto> $$$
Jul 08 15:30:33 <cmicali> we don't even care about $ now, since this is just for R&D really
Jul 08 15:30:37 <cmicali> and even then i've had a hard time
Jul 08 15:38:04 <_av500_> 3g in the train sucks
Jul 08 15:40:34 <gui_> panto: http://pastebin.com/FS02V16C
Jul 08 15:41:13 <panto> gui_, Kernel command line: console=ttyO0,115200n8 run_hardware_tests quiet
Jul 08 15:41:13 <panto>  root=/dev/mmcblk0p2 ro rootfstype=ext4 rootwait
Jul 08 15:41:22 <panto> no capemgr stuff on it
Jul 08 15:42:00 <gui_> I see
Jul 08 15:44:12 <gui_> is there any other way to add the command line other than uEnv.txt?
Jul 08 15:44:37 <panto> what is wrong with uEnv.txt
Jul 08 15:44:42 <panto> pastebin it too
Jul 08 15:45:27 <gui_> optargs=run_hardware_tests quiet; capemgr.enable_partno=FOO
Jul 08 15:45:35 <gui_> tried with BB-SPI0 too
Jul 08 15:45:54 <panto> why is there a ';' in the optargs line?
Jul 08 15:45:59 <gui_> looks like the boot does not reflect what's in the file
Jul 08 15:46:03 <gui_> it doesnt
Jul 08 15:46:08 <panto> looks like you made a mistake
Jul 08 15:46:22 <gui_> I added the ; here to simulate a line break
Jul 08 15:46:32 <panto> why is there a line break?
Jul 08 15:46:50 <gui_> because I thought there should be :P
Jul 08 15:47:05 <panto> how come you expected it to work when there was no example with the uEnv.txt having line breaks
Jul 08 15:47:28 <panto> well, how about not putting line breaks where none is expected? :)
Jul 08 15:47:33 <gui_> because I am kinda linux-ignorate
Jul 08 15:47:40 <panto> we can fix that
Jul 08 15:47:46 <panto> if you follow instructions
Jul 08 15:48:26 <gui_> well, noone told me about having or not a line break
Jul 08 15:49:07 <panto> in general, if you don't know what the effect of a cosmetic change in a configuration file would be, don't make it
Jul 08 15:49:33 <panto> especially in a file read by the bootloader
Jul 08 15:51:08 <jackmitchell> bootloaders are not friendly; they will chastise you for your insolence
Jul 08 15:51:29 <panto> the boogieman is his own bootloader
Jul 08 15:52:27 <lpapp> prpplague: ping
Jul 08 15:52:53 <prpplague> lpapp: pong
Jul 08 15:53:07 <lpapp> prpplague: are you a tct guy ?
Jul 08 15:53:17 <prpplague> lpapp: indeed
Jul 08 15:53:35 <lpapp> prpplague: I have some problem with the Flyswatter jtag...
Jul 08 15:53:35 * KotH wonders what tct means
Jul 08 15:53:54 <prpplague> lpapp: flyswatter or flyswatter2?
Jul 08 15:54:05 <lpapp> 1
Jul 08 15:54:11 <koen> KotH: tincantools
Jul 08 15:54:39 <panto> afk for a bit
Jul 08 15:55:11 <gui_> yaaaaaaaaay!
Jul 08 15:55:17 <gui_> thanks a lot panto!
Jul 08 15:55:17 <prpplague> lpapp: what kind of issue?
Jul 08 15:55:56 <KotH> koen: domo!
Jul 08 15:56:29 <gui_> one last question: in this angstrom version, the file /boot/uEnvt.txt is not the same as accessing via USB X:/uEnv.txt. why is that?
Jul 08 15:56:58 <m_billybob> eh ? you mean without mount and after mount ?
Jul 08 15:57:48 <m_billybob> when you boot from the media where uEnv.txt *is* is gets mounted as /boot/uboot/
Jul 08 15:58:49 <lpapp> prpplague: http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.comp.debugging.openocd.devel/23429
Jul 08 15:59:00 <lpapp> prpplague: please come to openocd though if you can as it is a bit off-topic in here.
Jul 08 15:59:02 <gui_> so editing /boot/uEnvt.txt does not change the "original" file?
Jul 08 15:59:29 <m_billybob> gui in what context ?
Jul 08 16:00:28 <m_billybob> gui, when the mdeia where the boot files are boot from /boot/ gets moved to /boot/uboot/
Jul 08 16:00:56 <m_billybob> by a mount point
Jul 08 16:02:05 <m_billybob> This is what happens with Debian anyhow, and am pretty sure the same thign happens with Angstrom as well
Jul 08 16:14:17 <mranostay> dead car battery to start the day
Jul 08 16:14:48 <mru> at least it started something, if not the car
Jul 08 16:15:01 <gui_> sorry, fire alarm, we had to evacuate
Jul 08 16:16:33 <mranostay> you don't have too
Jul 08 16:16:57 <gui_> i know, there's no fire. but they insist
Jul 08 16:17:15 <gui_> plus, I get a 15 min paid break :P
Jul 08 16:19:35 <mranostay> gui_: so ~2$? :P
Jul 08 16:20:08 <gui_> wha the heck is that code? :P
Jul 08 16:20:41 <gui_> how do I add multiple parameter to capemgr.enable_partno? as if I want to enable SPI0 and SPI1
Jul 08 16:21:08 <m_billybob> commas
Jul 08 16:21:23 <gui_> thanks
Jul 08 16:21:47 <m_billybob> np
Jul 08 16:25:36 <gui_> fire alarm again
Jul 08 16:25:42 <gui_> FFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU
Jul 08 16:25:52 <R2E4> Hide
Jul 08 16:27:21 <R2E4> Will beaglebone capes work with beagleboard black?
Jul 08 16:28:26 <panto> R2E4, most of them yes
Jul 08 16:28:32 <panto> there are some hardware issues
Jul 08 16:29:09 <R2E4> I'm looking at the rs485 cape.
Jul 08 16:29:18 <panto> that should work as it is
Jul 08 16:35:33 <gui_> two evacuations within 30 min. not cool
Jul 08 16:35:45 <gui_> now I don't remember what I was doing
Jul 08 16:36:37 <georgem> evacuations?
Jul 08 16:36:43 <georgem> ahh. fire alarm
Jul 08 16:38:05 <gui_> yep... probably some random student who's afraid of failing an exam is pushing the alarm buttons
Jul 08 16:38:52 <georgem> yeah, that was my guess before you even said anything else
Jul 08 16:40:37 <gui_> this time the firemen didn't even bother to come
Jul 08 16:47:37 <KotH> for your languagely enjoyment: http://i.imgur.com/4C0xrNN.jpg
Jul 08 16:50:18 <ka6sox> KotH, there is a 12 step group for this you know....
Jul 08 16:50:31 <KotH> yes, i know
Jul 08 16:50:34 <KotH> but this one is funny
Jul 08 16:50:38 <georgem> heh
Jul 08 16:51:08 <ka6sox> KotH, its great!
Jul 08 16:51:47 <KotH> http://mentalfloss.com/article/28315/15-wonderful-words-no-english-equivalent <- for those who want to have the rest
Jul 08 16:54:37 <georgem> Traditionally English has assimilated words from other languages when no substitute exists.
Jul 08 16:55:09 <KotH> and mutilated them until they mean something totally different
Jul 08 16:55:31 <georgem> Often, yes
Jul 08 16:55:38 <KotH> it always ticks me off, when i read "angst" in psychology papers
Jul 08 16:56:40 <haksaw> Is there a good dummies guide to interupts in userland for the BBB? Iv'e watched Derek Molloy's latest video on gpio and device trees, but it doesnt cover interrupts
Jul 08 16:57:09 <Defiant> haksaw: how about uio?
Jul 08 16:57:56 <georgem> KotH: Also.. for example in the USA the main dish is called an entree. In France an entrée is the course served before the main dish.
Jul 08 16:58:16 <KotH> georgem: wtf? seriously?
Jul 08 16:58:43 <m_billybob> food is food
Jul 08 16:59:01 <KotH> and what do they use "hors d'oevre" for? desert?
Jul 08 16:59:23 <m_billybob> apetizer.
Jul 08 16:59:36 <KotH> at least that makes sense
Jul 08 16:59:48 <ogra_> yeah, that entree stuff is massively confusing when in the US
Jul 08 17:00:33 <ogra_> but so is picking up a ball with your hands to run with it and call that "football"
Jul 08 17:00:37 <KotH> ogra_: confusing? i'd probably go "what? no, i want something to eat, not an entree!"
Jul 08 17:01:21 <haksaw> Defiant: never messed with it, just glancing over it looks like a driver
Jul 08 17:01:27 <georgem> KotH: Of course if you go to fine restaurant with many courses they usually do it correctly.
Jul 08 17:01:59 * KotH doesnt often go to expensive places
Jul 08 17:02:12 <KotH> the food quality to price ratio is most often quite bad
Jul 08 17:02:37 <m_billybob> depends on where you go
Jul 08 17:02:48 <m_billybob> many places in the US have crap food anyhow
Jul 08 17:02:49 <KotH> sure
Jul 08 17:02:55 * KotH knows that
Jul 08 17:03:02 <KotH> barcelona was like that too
Jul 08 17:03:04 <m_billybob> locale matters more than what resesteruant you go to
Jul 08 17:03:19 <KotH> all the cheaper places had the same 5 dishes, with the same shit quality
Jul 08 17:03:25 <KotH> the expensive places were halfway decent
Jul 08 17:04:13 <georgem> KotH: I find the best restaurants are dives run by immigrants in bad neighborhoods and are often have the best food money can buy.
Jul 08 17:04:15 <m_billybob> really depends though. PLaceslike sonoma california . . . almost always excellent food no matter where you go
Jul 08 17:04:40 <KotH> georgem: depends on the country
Jul 08 17:04:47 <m_billybob> and I suppose "good" is semi subjective
Jul 08 17:05:09 <KotH> georgem: in .jp, restaurants run by immigrants are pretty expensive, and not always very good, but at least authentic foreign food
Jul 08 17:05:24 <KotH> georgem: the best food to eat in .jp is local stuff
Jul 08 17:05:34 <KotH> and cheap too
Jul 08 17:05:44 <georgem> KotH: ya... that wouldn't apply to Japan.
Jul 08 17:05:48 <KotH> 5chf can easily fill my stomach there
Jul 08 17:06:09 <m_billybob> but is it good food
Jul 08 17:06:12 <KotH> (actually, i always wondered how these restaurants made money, when cooking yourself was more expensive then going out)
Jul 08 17:06:17 <m_billybob> good for you, and good tasting.
Jul 08 17:09:09 <georgem> KotH: In Kansas City you can't get much of anything to eat for $5 other than fast food. The best cheap food ( <5 ) here I would say is authentic Mexican places that mainly cater to other Latinos.
Jul 08 17:09:57 <KotH> good thing i'm not in cansas
Jul 08 17:10:01 <m_billybob> I think thats anywhere in the US, and not just authentic mexican
Jul 08 17:10:11 <KotH> then again, i wouldnt mind some good mexican food :)
Jul 08 17:10:13 <m_billybob> Chinese food for instance
Jul 08 17:10:46 <georgem> There were quite a few good cheap Vietnamese places but it has started to become a fad so the prices have gone up quite a bit in the last few years
Jul 08 17:10:48 <SpeedEvil> On actual topic - and food.
Jul 08 17:10:50 <SpeedEvil> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4l9OAccaJdA
Jul 08 17:11:44 <georgem> youtube videos that don't play with HTML5 make me cry
Jul 08 17:11:51 <gui_> quick question: on SPI1 D0 is MISO, MOSI, or I'm able to choose?
Jul 08 17:12:52 <m_billybob> a look at the overlay should clear that up.
Jul 08 17:13:12 <m_billybob> ( source )
Jul 08 17:13:27 <gui_> indeed, thanks
Jul 08 17:13:43 <m_billybob> MISO of course being an input ;)
Jul 08 17:13:48 <georgem> m_billybob: Chinese food can be pretty cheap but you can't really get anything other than an order of egg rolls or a side of soup for $5
Jul 08 17:14:04 <m_billybob> georgem, depends on locale within the US
Jul 08 17:14:27 <m_billybob> Alabama for instance. cost of living is fairly cheap compared to many other places in the US
Jul 08 17:14:38 <georgem> yeah. it varies quite a bit
Jul 08 17:15:09 <m_billybob> lol speakign of which
Jul 08 17:15:24 <georgem> indeed :)
Jul 08 17:15:25 <m_billybob> was just watching a youtube video, and the ad that comes up was in spanish
Jul 08 17:15:42 <SpeedEvil> hah
Jul 08 17:15:56 <georgem> heh
Jul 08 17:16:17 <m_billybob> better than that dahm "corporate welfare" advert thats been all over youtube it seems
Jul 08 17:16:55 <m_billybob> the government should be forbidden from placing adverts anywhere
Jul 08 17:17:24 <m_billybob> in effect, they use our money to try and brainwash us . . .
Jul 08 17:17:28 <georgem> m_billybob: What about to discourage smoking for instance?
Jul 08 17:17:50 <m_billybob> government has no say in that as far as Im concerned
Jul 08 17:18:35 <scoobydoo> Hello?
Jul 08 17:19:35 <KotH> scoobydoo: you should stop smoking
Jul 08 17:20:27 <georgem> m_billybob: I see your point, however the government sends money to educate children in school about smoking. Paying for an advert on youtube on the same subject doesn't seem to be much different to me.
Jul 08 17:20:32 <georgem> spends*
Jul 08 17:20:56 <_Sy_> hello
Jul 08 17:21:56 <ka6sox> mourning _Sy_
Jul 08 17:24:26 <m_billybob> georgem, mixed feelings there . . . point being they need to spend our money on what its meant to be spent on, not to solidfy their position. Or anything of that nature. Military, NASA *proper* education ( with out bias ). Asfar as the example of smoking goes. *Maybe* make it illegal to smoke inside public indoor places, but if it is legal they have no right to say anything else about it.
Jul 08 17:25:02 <m_billybob> btw im not a smoker
Jul 08 17:26:02 <_Sy_> Its 18:25 here :), brb
Jul 08 17:26:02 <KotH> can someone educate me, why everything in the US is either one or the other extreme?
Jul 08 17:26:23 <KotH> you all sound like sith lords, to anyone from europe
Jul 08 17:26:40 <_Sy_> And they're can only be 2 of them at any one time :P
Jul 08 17:26:54 <ka6sox> KotH, because here, a small, vocal Minority can create HUGE waves....
Jul 08 17:27:17 <m_billybob> KotH in reality it is no much different
Jul 08 17:27:24 <_Sy_> Who's the master? and who's the apprentice?
Jul 08 17:27:28 <ka6sox> we have a term here which means probaby something different there in .eu....
Jul 08 17:27:32 <ssi> ka6sox is the master
Jul 08 17:27:36 <ka6sox> "Smoking Nazis"
Jul 08 17:27:45 <ka6sox> master of what?
Jul 08 17:27:49 <_Sy_> Sith
Jul 08 17:27:51 <ssi> ...the universe?
Jul 08 17:27:53 <KotH> ka6sox: that's the same everywhere
Jul 08 17:28:03 <KotH> ka6sox: what makes the US different in this regard?
Jul 08 17:28:13 <georgem> KotH: I was thinking about this recently. I wonder if its possibly genetic. My mom told me her mother's side of the family fled Poland due to their extreme political views.
Jul 08 17:28:17 <m_billybob> KotH the appearance of freedom of speech
Jul 08 17:28:25 <ka6sox> m_billybob, +1`
Jul 08 17:28:35 <KotH> georgem: cultural, not genetic
Jul 08 17:28:53 <KotH> georgem: unlike what a lot of people think, water is a lot thiker than blood
Jul 08 17:29:06 <m_billybob> KotH what it boils down to though. Our government short of culture are not that different
Jul 08 17:29:10 <m_billybob> we're all pawns
Jul 08 17:29:31 <m_billybob> we all have the illusion of freedom
Jul 08 17:29:42 <mru> we're all servants to our lizard overlords
Jul 08 17:29:54 <mru> or the robots
Jul 08 17:30:10 <mru> or maybe robot lizards
Jul 08 17:30:15 <m_billybob> heh
Jul 08 17:30:16 <KotH> robot chicken?
Jul 08 17:31:05 <KotH> m_billybob: i cannot correctly parse your sentence. would you mind rephrasing it?
Jul 08 17:31:38 <bradfa> did friday arrive early this week?
Jul 08 17:31:42 <m_billybob> KotH what i mean is that aside from religeon, the places we live are not all that different
Jul 08 17:32:12 <KotH> bradfa: yes, early this morning
Jul 08 17:32:23 <bradfa> oh, good
Jul 08 17:32:46 * bradfa "flashed" some beaglebones this morning and got distracted so didn't notice
Jul 08 17:33:05 <georgem> KotH: It could really be either or some mix of both if you think about it. If there were a gene that caused people to be more polar in their views chances are a lot of people in the US would have it.
Jul 08 17:33:24 <KotH> m_billybob: uhmm.. phsyically, not different. culturally, very different
Jul 08 17:33:48 <m_billybob> KotH define "culture
Jul 08 17:33:51 <KotH> m_billybob: what the goverment screws up in domestic politics: everywhere the same, just the scale differs
Jul 08 17:33:52 <m_billybob> "
Jul 08 17:34:18 <m_billybob> when i hear the term culture i immedaitly think religeon
Jul 08 17:34:23 <KotH> m_billybob: the way how people live and behave
Jul 08 17:34:34 <KotH> culture != religion, but religion is often a part of culture
Jul 08 17:35:08 <KotH> m_billybob: i dont know how it is where you live, but western europe is mostly agnostic
Jul 08 17:35:13 <m_billybob> KotH in regards to how people behave and live has much to do with their respective governments
Jul 08 17:35:30 <m_billybob> KotH, i think anyone with half a brain is agnostic
Jul 08 17:35:37 <KotH> m_billybob: and the government evolved from how people behaved
Jul 08 17:36:03 <KotH> m_billybob: nope... i am a true believer in god and everything. i kill two infidels every day!
Jul 08 17:36:12 <georgem> heh
Jul 08 17:36:13 * m_billybob sighs
Jul 08 17:36:34 <KotH> hehe
Jul 08 17:36:47 <KotH> you can be quite intelligent and still very religious
Jul 08 17:37:08 <KotH> i know a few in academia, doing brilliant work, who don't miss a sunday mass
Jul 08 17:37:21 <mru> just takes a good brainwashing
Jul 08 17:37:22 <georgem> KotH: That has always puzzled me.
Jul 08 17:37:31 <KotH> it somehow works for them...
Jul 08 17:38:00 <m_billybob> Just a personal thought here. In order to see religeon for what it really is, all you have to do is quickly study where religeon came from, and the simularity between different religeons.
Jul 08 17:38:02 <KotH> prolly knowing the difference of what is believe and what is known truly... and seperating the two
Jul 08 17:38:14 <m_billybob> KotH, hence the word "most"
Jul 08 17:38:33 <georgem> I think there is also a difference between someone who does something because it is part of their tradition and those who do it based solely on its basis in science.
Jul 08 17:38:40 <KotH> m_billybob: where did religion come from in your oppinion?
Jul 08 17:38:42 <m_billybob> some people just feel the need to believe in somethign greater than themselves
Jul 08 17:39:00 <mru> yes, the robot overlords
Jul 08 17:39:06 <m_billybob> KotH, Pagen beliefs
Jul 08 17:39:19 <m_billybob> worship of the sun
Jul 08 17:39:41 <mru> pte-science that made sense
Jul 08 17:39:44 <mru> pre
Jul 08 17:39:44 * KotH thinks that this is a quite simplicistic view of religion
Jul 08 17:39:50 <KotH> and probably very wrong too
Jul 08 17:40:22 <m_billybob> 3 kings, born of a virgin, dead three days then resurected.
Jul 08 17:40:26 <mru> I prefer the narcissistic view
Jul 08 17:40:28 <KotH> mru: rather "pre-science it was a way to answer the question of 'why?' and 'how?'"
Jul 08 17:40:41 <mru> that is, the one where I'm god
Jul 08 17:40:47 <georgem> HEHE
Jul 08 17:41:30 <mru> KotH: that was pre-42
Jul 08 17:41:52 <KotH> mru: true that!
Jul 08 17:41:59 <gui_> if I use "sudo passwd -d root", shouldn't I be able to login as root without a password?
Jul 08 17:42:16 <mru> gui_: depends
Jul 08 17:42:29 <gui_> on what?
Jul 08 17:42:41 <gui_> i mean, just press enter when pw is requested
Jul 08 17:42:47 <mru> something may be forbidding blank passwords
Jul 08 17:42:59 <mru> especially for root
Jul 08 17:43:00 <KotH> mru: i really wonder, how people lived back in those dark ages, when they didnt know about 42
Jul 08 17:43:18 <mru> sshd has such a setting, for instance
Jul 08 17:43:29 <scoobydoo> Can I turn my Beagle bone black into a full working desktop?
Jul 08 17:43:47 <m_billybob> yes. for the most part
Jul 08 17:43:52 <KotH> scoobydoo: #beagle is not #eightball
Jul 08 17:43:53 <mru> KotH: I suppose they had to make do with 26
Jul 08 17:43:54 <gui_> hmm
Jul 08 17:44:14 <scoobydoo> I don't do #tag stuff
Jul 08 17:44:20 <gui_> right now I'm just trying su root, [enter] on pw
Jul 08 17:44:24 <gui_> and I get authentication failure
Jul 08 17:44:31 <scoobydoo> but seriously. Can I run it as a desktop to use the onion router
Jul 08 17:44:33 <KotH> scoobydoo: those are no scrummy tags! those are channel names!
Jul 08 17:44:48 <scoobydoo> oh...sorry I'm at the office
Jul 08 17:44:57 <KotH> scoobydoo: we dont know whether _you_ can, but generally it's a possibility to do that
Jul 08 17:45:22 <m_billybob> scoobydoo, the BBB runs linux, the BBB has 512 MB ram and 2 GB storage . ..
Jul 08 17:45:27 <mru> since he asks, I'm going to go with 'no'
Jul 08 17:45:39 <KotH> mru: fair guess
Jul 08 17:45:45 <m_billybob> the answer as already stated is yes, the biger question is why
Jul 08 17:46:05 <KotH> because the bbb was there
Jul 08 17:46:18 <gui_> well... login in via serial does work
Jul 08 17:46:20 <mru> why was the bbb there?
Jul 08 17:46:24 <gui_> just type root and it logs in
Jul 08 17:46:35 <m_billybob> mru so you have somethign to do  ;)
Jul 08 17:46:42 <gui_> ssh is failing though, as you said
Jul 08 17:46:55 <scoobydoo> 64gb sd class 10
Jul 08 17:47:04 <m_billybob> mru, *or* so someone could create this channel so we could talk about religeon :)
Jul 08 17:47:07 <scoobydoo> for memory
Jul 08 17:47:45 <mru> m_billybob: why should we talk about religion?
Jul 08 17:47:54 <m_billybob> no idea.
Jul 08 17:48:13 <KotH> because there is a difference between agnosticism and atheism ;)
Jul 08 17:48:15 <gui_> let's talk about bad religion
Jul 08 17:48:18 <mru> religeon, is that worship of pigeons?
Jul 08 17:48:21 <gui_> i'm going for a waaaaaaalk
Jul 08 17:48:33 <m_billybob> mru worship of electrons :)
Jul 08 17:48:34 <KotH> gui_: i wouldnt do that
Jul 08 17:48:48 <KotH> gui_: you might need to cross the road... and then, you'll wonder why you did that
Jul 08 17:48:57 <gui_> to listen to punk rock
Jul 08 17:49:12 <mru> why did the gui_ cross the road?
Jul 08 17:49:26 <m_billybob> when he wanted to change to a CLI ?
Jul 08 17:49:26 <KotH> to be reimplemented as UX
Jul 08 17:51:52 <m_billybob> KotH both definitions lead to the same place -> "no god"
Jul 08 17:53:02 <KotH> m_billybob: which definitions?
Jul 08 17:53:13 <ka6sox> I hate Mondays
Jul 08 17:53:18 <ka6sox> (that is all)
Jul 08 17:53:27 <KotH> ka6sox: what monday are you talking about? it's friday!
Jul 08 17:54:02 <m_billybob> KotH agnostic and atheist
Jul 08 17:54:04 * ka6sox thinks KotH is in an alternative universe intersecting with uors
Jul 08 17:54:13 <KotH> m_billybob: nope, definitly not
Jul 08 17:54:27 <KotH> m_billybob: one is "i dont know whether there is a god" and the other is "i dont care whether there is a god"
Jul 08 17:54:43 <mru> agnostic or atheist usually results in the same behaviour
Jul 08 17:54:59 <m_billybob> agnostic -> Noun
Jul 08 17:54:59 <m_billybob> A person who believes that nothing is known or can be known of the existence or nature of God or of anything beyond material phenomena;...
Jul 08 17:55:27 <bradfa> do ti chips believe in god?
Jul 08 17:55:30 <m_billybob> atheist  -> a person who denies or disbelieves the existence of a supreme being or beings
Jul 08 17:55:43 <mru> anyhow, it's dinner time, and the boss is paying
Jul 08 17:55:48 <georgem> mru: Results in behavior such as? basing beliefs on fact
Jul 08 17:55:49 <m_billybob> nice.
Jul 08 17:55:49 <bradfa> mru, go! eat!
Jul 08 17:55:59 <KotH> mru: have fun!
Jul 08 17:56:04 <georgem> have fun
Jul 08 17:56:08 <KotH> mru: or at least make your boss a bit poorer
Jul 08 17:56:12 <_Sy_> As oposed to science which is all theory :)
Jul 08 17:56:20 <bradfa> _Sy_, exactly!
Jul 08 17:56:32 <KotH> _Sy_: nah, there is a fair bit of hypothesis as well :)
Jul 08 17:56:40 <bradfa> and laws
Jul 08 17:56:44 <georgem> Go jump out a 10 story window and tell me science is all theory :)
Jul 08 17:56:52 <m_billybob> lol
Jul 08 17:56:54 <bradfa> georgem, ok, brb, have to travel to moon first
Jul 08 17:57:25 <_Sy_> When I was growing up, what they taught in school as scientific fact has now been overturned...for example, Dinosaurs, were slow moving cold blooded....today, they are no longer thought to have been cold blooded and evolved into birds.
Jul 08 17:57:42 <KotH> huh?
Jul 08 17:57:46 <KotH> when did that change?
Jul 08 17:57:55 <m_billybob> _Sy_ the universe revolves the earth too
Jul 08 17:58:02 <KotH> and where has all my childhood gone?
Jul 08 17:58:03 <m_billybob> revolves around*
Jul 08 17:59:19 <_Sy_> Einstein originally believed that the gravity was not a universal constant, but due to pressure from his colleages he suppressed his view, he wasn't proven correct until after his death.
Jul 08 17:59:21 <m_billybob> blackholes do / dont exist . . . etc.
Jul 08 17:59:55 <m_billybob> we're still a stage 0 civilization . . .
Jul 08 18:00:00 <m_billybob> we have much understanding to do
Jul 08 18:00:15 <_Sy_> The latest thinking on black holes is that a quark which is the brightest thing in the universe is at the center of a black hole...its cause'd byt the friction of all the crap going into it.
Jul 08 18:01:18 <m_billybob> hypothesis, theory  <--- both the same to me.
Jul 08 18:01:37 <m_billybob> they're both "guesses"
Jul 08 18:01:40 <scoobydoo> they are different to me
Jul 08 18:01:44 <scoobydoo> different types of guesses
Jul 08 18:01:52 <scoobydoo> hypothesis can be tested so to speak
Jul 08 18:01:58 <m_billybob> they're both based on some truthes
Jul 08 18:01:59 <scoobydoo> a theory has to be proven wrong
Jul 08 18:02:07 <scoobydoo> if it's proven right then it's a fact of science
Jul 08 18:02:11 <georgem> Like I said, the theory of gravity is just a theory yet I don't see anyone jumping yet
Jul 08 18:02:25 <scoobydoo> gravity is not a theory
Jul 08 18:02:27 <scoobydoo> it is a law
Jul 08 18:02:30 <scoobydoo> thus the law of gravity
Jul 08 18:02:41 <m_billybob> that is until they figure out it is wrong
Jul 08 18:02:42 <scoobydoo> Relativity is a theory
Jul 08 18:02:56 <scoobydoo> which with quantum physics becomes more of a theory every day
Jul 08 18:03:01 <KotH> _Sy_: wait? what? a single quark being the center of a black hole?
Jul 08 18:03:05 <m_billybob> relativity has also changed, . . .how many times in the last 50 years ?
Jul 08 18:03:14 <scoobydoo> quark is not the center of a black hole
Jul 08 18:03:15 <KotH> _Sy_: and a quark being "bright"?
Jul 08 18:03:19 <_Sy_> I like the idea that was put in a Star Trek next gen episode....our galaxy is someones petry dish....all things being realtive.
Jul 08 18:03:45 <m_billybob> a quark is one of the smallest building blocks in nature isnt it ?
Jul 08 18:03:48 <scoobydoo> a black hole is a super massive star that's mass creates too much gravity which implodes and expells all vaccumm in it's atoms
Jul 08 18:03:55 <scoobydoo> compressing it to the size of a baseball essentially
Jul 08 18:03:57 <m_billybob> so they are saying.
Jul 08 18:04:12 <scoobydoo> a quark is a sub atomic quantum sized particle
Jul 08 18:04:18 <KotH> m_billybob: yes, and in normal physical space, a single quark does not exist
Jul 08 18:04:19 <scoobydoo> up quarks down quarks etc...
Jul 08 18:04:36 <scoobydoo> anywho
Jul 08 18:04:44 <scoobydoo> I'm somewhat computer illiterate believe it or not
Jul 08 18:04:48 <KotH> scoobydoo: there is no such thing as "vacuum" when you talk about atoms
Jul 08 18:04:50 <m_billybob> lol
Jul 08 18:04:58 <scoobydoo> I want to turn this beagle bone black into a onion router web surfer
Jul 08 18:05:04 <scoobydoo> yes there is
Jul 08 18:05:12 <scoobydoo> it's the space between an electron and the nucleus
Jul 08 18:05:12 <KotH> scoobydoo: the basic particles of matter are thought of having no dimension
Jul 08 18:05:20 <m_billybob> absense of matter ?
Jul 08 18:05:20 <scoobydoo> it is vacuum
Jul 08 18:05:21 <KotH> scoobydoo: hence, everything is "vacuum"
Jul 08 18:05:32 <scoobydoo> yes it is
Jul 08 18:05:48 <_Sy_> I'm not sure if I got the term correct....it might not be a quark...there was a program on a couple of weeks ago on Horizon, basically when the black hole is feeding all the stuff is travelling at tremendous speed and the friction causes the light.
Jul 08 18:05:49 <scoobydoo> if you squeeze all the vacuum out of earth it will have the mass of earth but be the size of a sugar cube
Jul 08 18:06:16 <m_billybob> scoobydoo, what is that you want to do exactly with this "onion router" i am not familiar with it, but there *has* to be a better way
Jul 08 18:06:39 <scoobydoo> anomity basically
Jul 08 18:06:51 <scoobydoo> I don't like all my person information being logged by the NSA etc...
Jul 08 18:06:58 <m_billybob> in my own mind, anything named as a router should be guiless
Jul 08 18:07:07 <m_billybob> GUI-less
Jul 08 18:07:11 <KotH> _Sy_: i dont know how far theories on black holes are there days, but a couple of years ago it was the general impression of scientists, that you cannot talk scientifically about what goes on behind the event horizon, as our physical laws do not apply there anymore and there is no way to test anything about that
Jul 08 18:07:12 <scoobydoo> so i am using something portable that I can use for personal private use and nother else
Jul 08 18:07:27 <m_billybob> scoobydoo, so in effect a masquarade router of sorts ?
Jul 08 18:07:28 <KotH> scoobydoo: you are mixing up stuff....
Jul 08 18:07:57 <scoobydoo> eh...it basically disperses your information to other tor users on the "dark web" if you want to call it that
Jul 08 18:08:35 <scoobydoo> the dark web has 750 terabytes of information, whereas the "world wide web" that most people use and consider the web is actually only 19 terabytes of information
Jul 08 18:08:40 <KotH> scoobydoo: atoms (in the sense democrit used it) are mathematical points, according to current theory, hence they have no dimension. if you squeeze all "vacuum" out of mater, you dont get a sugar cube, you get nothing but another mathematical point
Jul 08 18:08:44 <gui_> I set PermitEmptyPasswords yes, still can't log with empty pass :(
Jul 08 18:08:48 <m_billybob> KotH there are some pretty good youtube videos out there on physics/astronomy etc by Tyson being some of the more entertaining.
Jul 08 18:09:21 <scoobydoo> essentially I don't want to be blind and a sheep and be tracked and hunted like an animal...I want to be a person with liberties and freedom
Jul 08 18:09:27 * SpeedEvil imagines it was the other tyson.
Jul 08 18:09:28 <m_billybob> Leo Degrasse ? I always forget his first name
Jul 08 18:09:32 <scoobydoo> generation Y seems to not care so I choose to abandon ship with them
Jul 08 18:09:34 <SpeedEvil> Not Mike.
Jul 08 18:09:42 <_Sy_> Trying to find the article...I think its Quasar not Quark
Jul 08 18:09:47 <scoobydoo> koth, depends how you percieve your world
Jul 08 18:09:51 <KotH> m_billybob: thanks, i'm not so interested in astromomy as to learn it... but you can be assured, when i do, i will learn it properly reading books instead of watching youtube videos
Jul 08 18:09:56 <SpeedEvil> Also - ##physics
Jul 08 18:10:09 <scoobydoo> if you are a mathmatical type then sure...if you a phyiscal type then it's mass of a planet and size of a sugar cube
Jul 08 18:10:23 <scoobydoo> a point can be divided infinately...thus nothing is in motion
Jul 08 18:10:38 <SpeedEvil> KotH - the problem is that you can gain a rough understanding in a few minutes. To actually do it properly is several months or years of study.
Jul 08 18:10:41 <m_billybob> KotH im too busy to be married to a book for a week or two
Jul 08 18:10:46 <scoobydoo> distance and points are a paradigm therefore I don't discuss them as point (pun intended) of argument
Jul 08 18:10:46 <KotH> gui_: i hope your bbb is not conected to the internet in any ways
Jul 08 18:10:59 <gui_> yes it is
Jul 08 18:11:10 <gui_> but it's not doing anything important
Jul 08 18:11:11 <KotH> SpeedEvil: i'm way beyond the point most people call "rough understanding" :)
Jul 08 18:11:19 <gui_> i'm just learning how to use it
Jul 08 18:11:34 <gui_> and I always turn it off when I leave
Jul 08 18:11:35 <scoobydoo> koth, google if you will, zeno's paradox
Jul 08 18:11:44 <scoobydoo> it should clear up my opinions about points in space and distance
Jul 08 18:11:52 <KotH> m_billybob: well, i'm in polygamy there... reading multiple books in parallel :)
Jul 08 18:11:58 <SpeedEvil> scoobydoo: Thought has moved on since then somewhat.
Jul 08 18:12:07 <scoobydoo> of course it has
Jul 08 18:12:07 <m_billybob> polygamist !
Jul 08 18:12:09 * SpeedEvil puts scoobydoo in platos cave.
Jul 08 18:12:16 <scoobydoo> otherwise we aren't in motion
Jul 08 18:12:17 <KotH> scoobydoo: which one of zenos paradoxes?
Jul 08 18:12:40 <scoobydoo> arrow, turtle
Jul 08 18:12:44 <KotH> scoobydoo: and just for reference, i have an uni degree in EE. i know calculus quite well
Jul 08 18:12:53 <_Sy_> cya all...to tired to do anything tonight, going to have a night off.
Jul 08 18:13:01 <scoobydoo> you pick they are all pretty much similar points, of his paradigms that's the only that has not been disproven
Jul 08 18:13:29 <KotH> _Sy_: sleep well, and dreem of beagles!
Jul 08 18:13:31 <scoobydoo> I have a 4 year in business, but also invented quantum superposition before it was discovered :)
Jul 08 18:13:41 <_Sy_> :) ty, have fun
Jul 08 18:13:58 <scoobydoo> degrees are nice...but they aren't a neccesity for understanding and intelligence, just a medium to develop in
Jul 08 18:14:04 <georgem> +1
Jul 08 18:14:10 <KotH> scoobydoo: uhm.. you are not 100 years old
Jul 08 18:14:23 <scoobydoo> it's not 100 year old discovery
Jul 08 18:14:26 <SpeedEvil> He might be.
Jul 08 18:14:30 <scoobydoo> the idea sure
Jul 08 18:14:44 <scoobydoo> the method of passing through a solid object through superposition is not a 100 year old discovery
Jul 08 18:14:46 <KotH> quantum superposition is part of the standard model which was fleshed out in the early 20th century
Jul 08 18:14:56 <scoobydoo> quantum mechanics is fairly new and developing quickly
Jul 08 18:15:09 <SpeedEvil> hah.
Jul 08 18:15:13 <SpeedEvil> 'fairly new'.
Jul 08 18:15:22 <KotH> google for bose einstein distribution
Jul 08 18:15:26 <scoobydoo> I disagree respectfully koth, or perhaps we are on different pages
Jul 08 18:15:37 <SpeedEvil> The same way that the transistor is 'fairly new'.
Jul 08 18:15:45 <SpeedEvil> And jet airplanes.
Jul 08 18:15:48 <m_billybob> which kind of transistor
Jul 08 18:16:03 <scoobydoo> you are basically saying a 100 years ago they were using quantum calculation...which they weren't
Jul 08 18:16:09 <georgem> The human species is relatively new.
Jul 08 18:16:24 <KotH> scoobydoo: well.. bose einstein condensate where a mere theory 100y ago, and first observed in the 90s if i'm not mistaken
Jul 08 18:16:36 <KotH> scoobydoo: if you mean that...
Jul 08 18:16:41 <SpeedEvil> m_billybob - the transistor was being developed at the same time as lots of work in the foundation of quantum mechanics was being done.
Jul 08 18:16:49 <scoobydoo> the level of understanding to them couldn't have been the same to us at this point in time and space
Jul 08 18:17:00 <m_billybob> SpeedEvil, i was just being a dork ;)
Jul 08 18:17:04 <scoobydoo> the idea of merely passing through an object probably sounded nice
Jul 08 18:17:14 <bradfa> stupid question: I have an A5A and an A5B bbb on my desk, now just opened another bbb and there's no rev marking, what's easiest way to tell without booting the board what the rev is?
Jul 08 18:17:15 <scoobydoo> but figuring out how to actually do that...totally different
Jul 08 18:17:22 <m_billybob> I dont think you can invent somethign liek that scoobydoo.
Jul 08 18:17:25 <SpeedEvil> scoobydoo: Passing through objects is easy.
Jul 08 18:17:29 <m_billybob> you may be able to discover it
Jul 08 18:17:39 <scoobydoo> it's not actually
Jul 08 18:17:43 <SpeedEvil> scoobydoo: You can shoot beams of particles through metal foil, and many will go through, if the foil is thin enough.
Jul 08 18:17:54 <georgem> You could theorize a way to do to without testing your theory
Jul 08 18:17:56 <scoobydoo> the ability to do so may not even chance in this age
Jul 08 18:18:10 <scoobydoo> I mean a physical object, passing through another physical object
Jul 08 18:18:22 <KotH> SpeedEvil: not quite right. most of quantum mechanics was finished by the end of 1920. quantum electrodynamics continued after that, but even that was mostly "ready for use" when the transistor was done
Jul 08 18:18:33 <KotH> SpeedEvil: "end of 1920s"
Jul 08 18:18:49 <scoobydoo> koth..your wiki is trick fudging you bro
Jul 08 18:18:55 <SpeedEvil> koth - it was still a matter of debate and people not wanting to believe it.
Jul 08 18:19:08 <KotH> scoobydoo: wiki? that stuff comes straight out of my brain :)
Jul 08 18:19:20 <scoobydoo> the ability to calculate most quantum things to this day doesn't have enough computer power...they are far from finished
Jul 08 18:19:20 <KotH> SpeedEvil: true that
Jul 08 18:19:25 <SpeedEvil> koth - after the primary papers were published.
Jul 08 18:19:32 <scoobydoo> koth: explains a lot lol
Jul 08 18:19:42 <KotH> SpeedEvil: but then, if you have studied quantum mechanics, it is very hard to believe that this stuff really describes the world :)
Jul 08 18:19:46 <m_billybob> scoobydoo, you an KotH are on different pages
Jul 08 18:19:54 <scoobydoo> I noticed
Jul 08 18:20:11 <scoobydoo> I must be using a different nomenclature then him I don't know
Jul 08 18:20:14 <m_billybob> i think you're probably both right, just not understanding one another
Jul 08 18:20:19 <SpeedEvil> I'd misplaced in time Einsteins 'God does not play dice with the universe' - it was 1928.
Jul 08 18:20:24 <m_billybob> difference between idea, and practice i think
Jul 08 18:21:02 <SpeedEvil> KoTh - sure - I agree - the problem is that it seems to match the real world, and be the simplest description we have.
Jul 08 18:21:19 <KotH> ^^'
Jul 08 18:21:30 <KotH> modern quantum physics is anything but simple
Jul 08 18:21:36 <KotH> scoobydoo: hmm.. maybe
Jul 08 18:21:49 <SpeedEvil> The fact that the best theory we have to explain the world is understandable at all by a signifcant minority of humans is not a given of the universe.
Jul 08 18:21:55 <KotH> scoobydoo: i'm not a native english speaker, and physics is not my strong point either...
Jul 08 18:22:04 <SpeedEvil> There is nothing that says that the universe has to be understandable to humans.
Jul 08 18:22:19 <m_billybob> SpeedEvil +1
Jul 08 18:22:29 <m_billybob> e.g. who is to say anyone is right
Jul 08 18:22:30 <SpeedEvil> We are fortunate that so far it seems to be, to a select few at least who are willing to put in the effort is a big plus.
Jul 08 18:22:43 <KotH> SpeedEvil: actually, i dont think anyone todays has a full grasp of physics
Jul 08 18:22:56 <SpeedEvil> Koth - probably fair.
Jul 08 18:22:56 <KotH> there is just to damn much of it
Jul 08 18:23:17 <SpeedEvil> You can get a reasonable grasp of the whole thing. Not the details.
Jul 08 18:23:26 * KotH nods
Jul 08 18:24:44 <scoobydoo> sorry guys at work
Jul 08 18:24:47 <georgem> SpeedEvil: Until a Theory of everything links together all the branches of physics no one will have a full grasp
Jul 08 18:25:00 <SpeedEvil> georgem: If
Jul 08 18:25:05 <georgem> right
Jul 08 18:25:23 <scoobydoo> ok not to get off subject or be all "beagly" but can I use an AC powered hub, and then plug the beagle board into it, but also run it as the hub for the board?
Jul 08 18:25:23 <SpeedEvil> georgem: There is nothing saying such a thing will be found - and if it is - it may be a 'computer proof'
Jul 08 18:25:32 <KotH> well, there is a good chance that the higgs theory will actually link most of the stuff together
Jul 08 18:25:35 <scoobydoo> basically eliminating one wall plug from the equation?
Jul 08 18:25:50 <m_billybob> The thought that we need physics, and quantum physics to describe the whole universe tells me we really havent a clue
Jul 08 18:25:55 <SpeedEvil> That is - a thousand page document which is logically true, but not practucally helpful for congnition
Jul 08 18:26:11 <KotH> scoobydoo: check the schematics
Jul 08 18:26:20 <KotH> scoobydoo: i am not sure, but i think you are right
Jul 08 18:26:25 <scoobydoo> ok I hope so
Jul 08 18:26:32 <scoobydoo> I want it to be compact as possible
Jul 08 18:26:39 <scoobydoo> anyone into bitcoin?
Jul 08 18:26:41 <SpeedEvil> scoobydoo: It depends on the hub design.
Jul 08 18:26:50 <m_billybob> scoobydoo, a little
Jul 08 18:27:01 <SpeedEvil> scoobydoo: Some do not switch on Vbus on the downstream ports until they see Vbus on the upstream port. In that case - no
Jul 08 18:27:19 <KotH> SpeedEvil: that's why modern physics is a conglomerate of thousands of simplifications, depending on which problem you want to solve
Jul 08 18:27:20 <SpeedEvil> Don't buy an expensive hub
Jul 08 18:27:21 <scoobydoo> CIA is meeting with them on the 13th through their subsidiary "NQT" firm
Jul 08 18:27:26 <scoobydoo> I'm concerned
Jul 08 18:27:34 <m_billybob> scoobydoo, enough to know that short of investing a huge amount into GPU hardware or ASIC's it is hobbyist level and virtually a waste of time
Jul 08 18:27:35 <scoobydoo> same people who funded google and facebook
Jul 08 18:27:39 <scoobydoo> for data collection purposes
Jul 08 18:28:03 <scoobydoo> why hobbyist level?
Jul 08 18:28:05 <KotH> scoobydoo: dont worry
Jul 08 18:28:17 <KotH> scoobydoo: life will go on, even if everything else fails
Jul 08 18:28:27 <georgem> m_billybob: theories can be useful for solving real problems though even if they aren't totally correct
Jul 08 18:28:29 <scoobydoo> I support the bitcoin movement
Jul 08 18:28:39 <scoobydoo> more secure transactions
Jul 08 18:28:44 <KotH> scoobydoo: can you explain me what the "bitcoin movement" is?
Jul 08 18:28:50 <scoobydoo> stable inflation and deflation
Jul 08 18:28:54 <m_billybob> scoobydoo, because anything less than $20USD a day profit is not going ot make you much money
Jul 08 18:28:57 <KotH> scoobydoo: huh?
Jul 08 18:29:08 <KotH> scoobydoo: currency has very little to do with inflation/deflation
Jul 08 18:29:12 <scoobydoo> unregulated (thus the banks that abuse us, can't be bailed out by our government that abuses us by paying them)
Jul 08 18:29:16 <m_billybob> scoobydoo, oh you mean the financial aspect ?
Jul 08 18:29:20 <m_billybob> err
Jul 08 18:29:21 <scoobydoo> no federal reserve to pay in taxes
Jul 08 18:29:27 <m_billybob> the currency it's self
Jul 08 18:29:40 <georgem> Don't mess with bitcoin mining unless you're bringing ASICs to the fight
Jul 08 18:29:49 <scoobydoo> the program is near close to a perfect economies of scale format
Jul 08 18:30:03 <scoobydoo> ASIC's only create more complex alogorithms
Jul 08 18:30:08 * KotH wonders about that
Jul 08 18:30:10 <m_billybob> scoobydoo in idea it's pretty cool, in reality "the fed" wont let it go any where as already demonstrated by the US government.
Jul 08 18:30:17 <scoobydoo> all they are doing is eliminating the GPU miners from the block solving
Jul 08 18:30:48 <SpeedEvil> I am amused with the fact that if I had installed on my phone a bitcoin client when that client was first ported - I could have mined at about the same rate as ASIC miners now.
Jul 08 18:30:54 <scoobydoo> It needs support...people need to take back our economy and quit letting crooks tell us how it is
Jul 08 18:30:56 <KotH> scoobydoo: i wonder whether bitcoin style currencies, which exist purely virtual and have no counterpart in the physical world, will be of any success
Jul 08 18:31:13 <scoobydoo> that and you would be close to a millionaire potentially
Jul 08 18:31:32 <SpeedEvil> Nowhere close.
Jul 08 18:32:00 <m_billybob> scoobydoo support wont matter.
Jul 08 18:32:05 <scoobydoo> koth...look at our currency
Jul 08 18:32:07 <scoobydoo> worknig model
Jul 08 18:32:17 <scoobydoo> 4% of our currency is tangible phyiscal money...the rest is digitial
Jul 08 18:32:21 <scoobydoo> of course it works
Jul 08 18:32:35 <mranostay> it works just nor in your favor :)
Jul 08 18:32:36 <scoobydoo> brb at work, someones birthday party or some chit
Jul 08 18:32:45 <KotH> scoobydoo: yes that^s true. but i can take a couple of CHF and go to the next shop to buy something
Jul 08 18:32:51 <KotH> scoobydoo: i cannot do the same with bitcoins
Jul 08 18:33:15 <KotH> scoobydoo: even if most internet businesses would accept bitcoins, most pyhsical shops wont
Jul 08 18:33:24 <mranostay> KotH: CHF almost as good as dollars
Jul 08 18:33:32 <KotH> mranostay: it's better :)
Jul 08 18:33:35 <ssi> http://www.cnbc.com/id/100868874
Jul 08 18:33:42 <KotH> mranostay: you can buy good chocolate with CHF ;)
Jul 08 18:33:47 <m_billybob> KotH you can buy lots with BTC problem is the power behind currency within your government, wont let the BTC go anywhere. because then, where would they be.
Jul 08 18:33:55 <m_billybob> you can buy chocolate with BTC as well
Jul 08 18:34:24 <georgem> http://www.forbes.com/sites/jonmatonis/2013/06/23/bitcoin-foundation-receives-cease-and-desist-order-from-california/
Jul 08 18:34:56 <m_billybob> georgem there was also a federal case against one of the major players backign BTC here in the US
Jul 08 18:35:16 <KotH> m_billybob: yes, most countries have this law about "the one true currency"
Jul 08 18:35:31 <KotH> m_billybob: mostly a relict from the middle ages, when every town had its currency
Jul 08 18:35:39 <georgem> If bitcoin gets too big it at serious risk of being outlawed
Jul 08 18:36:19 <ssi> I have a hard time thinking that'd hold up as long as it's legal to trade gold
Jul 08 18:36:45 <m_billybob> when was the last time your locale currency was backed by gold ?
Jul 08 18:36:48 <m_billybob> I bet a long time
Jul 08 18:37:00 <bradfa> m_billybob, my currency is backed by bacon
Jul 08 18:37:03 <KotH> m_billybob: it still was yesterday
Jul 08 18:37:07 <ssi> bradfa: I want to live there
Jul 08 18:37:13 <bradfa> ssi, come, the water's fine
Jul 08 18:37:16 <ssi> :D
Jul 08 18:37:17 <bradfa> :)
Jul 08 18:37:18 * mranostay headbangs in
Jul 08 18:37:19 <ssi> GRANT ME YOUR BACON
Jul 08 18:37:19 <thurgood> mmmm.. bacon
Jul 08 18:37:26 <KotH> m_billybob: afaik CHF is 100% backed by gold
Jul 08 18:37:28 <bradfa> mranostay, what's your thought on bacon?
Jul 08 18:37:30 <m_billybob> KotH thats good, the US dollar has not been back by gold in quite some time.
Jul 08 18:37:35 <mranostay> bradfa: it is okay
Jul 08 18:37:40 <mranostay> i like mine burnt
Jul 08 18:37:44 <ssi> http://images.wildammo.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/grant-me-your-bacon.jpg
Jul 08 18:38:00 <m_billybob> heh
Jul 08 18:38:07 <KotH> m_billybob: actually, a couple of years ago it was even >100%, when the gold price rose
Jul 08 18:38:09 <georgem> KotH: I doubt
Jul 08 18:38:16 * bradfa loves linkedin guy who thinks I'd make a good CTO for some wireless company in ireland...
Jul 08 18:38:26 <bradfa> right, not going to happen
Jul 08 18:38:38 <KotH> bradfa: why not?
Jul 08 18:38:44 <KotH> bradfa: dont you like gingers?
Jul 08 18:38:50 <bradfa> KotH, precisely
Jul 08 18:38:54 <KotH> hehe
Jul 08 18:38:57 <ssi> I'd do it... I like gingers just fine :P
Jul 08 18:39:00 <m_billybob> lol
Jul 08 18:39:12 <m_billybob> so long as they pay the bills ?
Jul 08 18:39:19 <bradfa> oh boy
Jul 08 18:39:28 <m_billybob> Just dont ask for a raise ;)
Jul 08 18:46:41 <m_billybob> lol -> EEVblog #486 - Does Current Flow Through A Capacitor?
Jul 08 18:47:40 <ka6sox> ssi, you will notice those are *all* girls in that picturew
Jul 08 18:48:45 <ssi> :)
Jul 08 18:48:54 <SpeedEvil> ka6 - no tthe one on the bottom
Jul 08 18:49:39 <ka6sox> how do you know the one on the bottom isn't a Sow?
Jul 08 18:50:13 <scoobydoo> I'm thinking, beagle board connected to a kinect motion sensor...connected to a turret
Jul 08 18:50:19 <scoobydoo> home security system
Jul 08 18:50:46 <ka6sox> Hurt me baby....make me do openCV on a BeagleBoneBlack
Jul 08 18:51:05 <scoobydoo> it would work no?
Jul 08 18:52:03 <riot> ohai. i just bought a bone black, can't get (that crap _never_ worked for _any_ device here..) rndis to work. Does the eMMC-OS (What is it? Angstrom?) do dhcp on ethernet? or can i configure it (without display) to do so? or does it maybe have a fixed address there?
Jul 08 18:52:45 <riot> ka6sox: it _does_ have a 3d accelerator, so what?
Jul 08 18:53:04 <riot> ka6sox: www.youtube.com/watch?v=mcy929FV8Qg
Jul 08 18:53:04 <ka6sox> riot really?
Jul 08 18:53:12 <ka6sox> yes, 80% of the CPU
Jul 08 18:53:40 <georgem> ka6sox: 80% of the transistor count is GPU?
Jul 08 18:53:43 <riot> and a Neon-unit :)
Jul 08 18:53:50 <riot> fpu, if one likes so
Jul 08 18:54:10 <winocm> vfp!
Jul 08 18:54:31 <ka6sox> there is no DSP in a AM335X
Jul 08 18:56:33 <KotH> m_billybob: why does anyone watch that eev shit?
Jul 08 18:57:12 <m_billybob> ?
Jul 08 18:57:35 <KotH> m_billybob: he understand very little of what he is talking about
Jul 08 18:57:54 <m_billybob> No idea
Jul 08 18:58:03 <m_billybob> im not exactly an EE myself
Jul 08 18:58:24 <scoobydoo> so no one answered my question
Jul 08 18:58:37 <scoobydoo> if I plugged the beagle into a powered usb hub
Jul 08 18:58:40 <KotH> scoobydoo: the one about atheism?
Jul 08 18:58:40 <scoobydoo> and then power up the hub
Jul 08 18:58:42 <m_billybob> what question
Jul 08 18:58:47 <scoobydoo> will the beagle work or no?
Jul 08 18:58:51 <gui_> does anyone know where can I find a dtc with overlay support for ubuntu?
Jul 08 18:58:57 <KotH> scoobydoo: i answered it
Jul 08 18:59:08 <scoobydoo> oh I must have missed it
Jul 08 18:59:11 <ka6sox> gui_, thats a kernel thing
Jul 08 18:59:15 <m_billybob> gui Robert C Nelson
Jul 08 18:59:15 <scoobydoo> I'm at work and get distracted
Jul 08 18:59:26 <scoobydoo> did you say yes or no?
Jul 08 18:59:34 <KotH> scoobydoo: yeah.. work always gets in the way of the interesting stuff
Jul 08 18:59:35 <ka6sox> so the question is *what* kernel are you using and does it use DT
Jul 08 18:59:44 <scoobydoo> ok
Jul 08 18:59:50 <scoobydoo> heres a good question too
Jul 08 18:59:54 <ka6sox> gui_, +1 for pinging RCN about this
Jul 08 19:00:02 <gui_> ka6sox, the version from apt-get does not support overlay
Jul 08 19:00:17 <scoobydoo> if I crank this board up...does it have a desktop layout ready to get online or is it something I have to work on before ti works?
Jul 08 19:00:21 <m_billybob> gui hold on
Jul 08 19:00:37 <bradfa> scoobydoo, default image runs X and should have a browser
Jul 08 19:00:46 <bradfa> I believe gnome
Jul 08 19:00:51 <scoobydoo> oh nice
Jul 08 19:00:53 <bradfa> although never tried it myself
Jul 08 19:00:55 <ka6sox> gui_, in general ubuntu makes "kitchen sink" kernels
Jul 08 19:01:02 <m_billybob> gui -> http://eewiki.net/display/linuxonarm/BeagleBone+Black scroll down to "Upgrade distro "device-tree-compiler" package"
Jul 08 19:01:07 <gui_> should I clone his dtc repo and compile?
Jul 08 19:01:23 <m_billybob> gui that will work cross platform
Jul 08 19:01:35 <gui_> thanks billy
Jul 08 19:01:40 <m_billybob> np
Jul 08 19:02:01 <m_billybob> works for sure on Debian, havent used it on ubuntu but should work fine
Jul 08 19:03:28 <gui_> i think it works. I followed that tutorial last week for something
Jul 08 19:03:32 <gui_> just didn't remember
Jul 08 19:03:50 <m_billybob> then you should be able to run dtc -v now and get version info back
Jul 08 19:04:02 <gui_> i should start taking even more notes than I currently am
Jul 08 19:04:22 <gui_> sure, I'll try that
Jul 08 19:04:29 <m_billybob> gui_ you know what I do, i copy paste commands to a text file for each and every command
Jul 08 19:04:38 <m_billybob> now i log putty session religiously
Jul 08 19:04:43 <m_billybob> sessions*
Jul 08 19:04:51 <gui_> haha
Jul 08 19:05:07 <gui_> but I do so many, but so many things that 80%+ is just crap
Jul 08 19:05:24 <gui_> but I am keeping a log of everything that does work
Jul 08 19:05:29 <m_billybob> well i only do copy paste into text for when im writting a how to
Jul 08 19:06:12 <scoobydoo> what do you guys use your beagle bone's for?
Jul 08 19:06:35 <mranostay> nuclear war
Jul 08 19:06:52 <KotH> mranostay: how about a nice game of chess?
Jul 08 19:07:04 <gui_> check mate
Jul 08 19:07:04 <gui_> i win
Jul 08 19:07:07 <gui_> no?
Jul 08 19:07:15 * KotH is definitly too old
Jul 08 19:07:17 <m_billybob> how about a nice intel.com pingbot ;)
Jul 08 19:07:47 <m_billybob> no you're not
Jul 08 19:07:56 <KotH> boys! do something for your education and watch war games!
Jul 08 19:08:11 <m_billybob> that movie came out when i was in my teens
Jul 08 19:08:18 <m_billybob> KotH, and i have it on disk ;)
Jul 08 19:08:21 <gui_> never heard of it
Jul 08 19:08:34 <KotH> m_billybob: disk as in laser disk?
Jul 08 19:08:37 <gui_> how old is it?
Jul 08 19:08:44 <KotH> gui_: 1983
Jul 08 19:08:53 <m_billybob> KotH disk as in HDD
Jul 08 19:08:58 <KotH> m_billybob: pfft
Jul 08 19:09:05 <KotH> m_billybob: you should have it on VHS tape!
Jul 08 19:09:08 <mranostay> KotH: campy but a decent movie
Jul 08 19:09:10 <KotH> m_billybob: or even betamax!
Jul 08 19:09:16 <gui_> isn't the right spelling "laser disc"?
Jul 08 19:09:21 <KotH> mranostay: what does "campy" mean?
Jul 08 19:09:27 <m_billybob> betmax came out, and died while i was in the military lol
Jul 08 19:09:42 <m_billybob> betamax*
Jul 08 19:10:11 <KotH> betamax is still very much alive
Jul 08 19:10:30 <KotH> though, nowadays being mostly replaced by digital recorders
Jul 08 19:10:34 <m_billybob> Maybe in Turkey. you cant find much in the way of betamax in the US
Jul 08 19:10:41 <KotH> m_billybob: you can,
Jul 08 19:10:57 <KotH> m_billybob: profesionall video never went the way of VHS. it stayed with betamax
Jul 08 19:11:00 <m_billybob> KotH the question then becomes "why"
Jul 08 19:11:08 <KotH> because of better quality
Jul 08 19:11:18 <m_billybob> tv stations all use HDD ;)
Jul 08 19:11:33 <KotH> technically betamax was supperior to vhs. economically it wasnt
Jul 08 19:11:50 <m_billybob> i prefer the hdd, for ease of access
Jul 08 19:12:04 <m_billybob> can store many movies on one form of media
Jul 08 19:12:40 <m_billybob> I guess im just old, and lazy.
Jul 08 19:12:41 <KotH> m_billybob: at the place where a friend lives, a shop moved into a ground floor office space, that uses old school film cutting :)
Jul 08 19:12:50 <m_billybob> eeek
Jul 08 19:12:55 <KotH> yeah
Jul 08 19:12:58 <gui_> yay, dtc works now
Jul 08 19:13:05 <m_billybob> TV station a friend of mine used to work at still used Amiga video machines
Jul 08 19:13:13 <KotH> when i first walked past it i was like "WTF? do my eyes decive me?"
Jul 08 19:13:13 <gui_> can I simply copy dtc bin file to /usr/bin?
Jul 08 19:13:17 <m_billybob> video editing*
Jul 08 19:13:30 <KotH> gui_: yes you can
Jul 08 19:13:32 <KotH> gui_: no you shouldnt
Jul 08 19:13:33 <gui_> thx
Jul 08 19:13:38 <jmoyerman> I had a professor that would say "Technology is great, but I can still read a papyrus with writing, good luck reading an 8" floppy"
Jul 08 19:13:39 <m_billybob> gui_ i believe its /lib/firmare
Jul 08 19:13:39 <gui_> :(
Jul 08 19:13:53 <panto> the dtbo file should go in /lib/firmware
Jul 08 19:13:54 <m_billybob> -> /lib/firmware/ *
Jul 08 19:13:55 <gui_> i mean the compiler, to the compiled file
Jul 08 19:14:01 <gui_> not the*
Jul 08 19:14:08 <gui_> i mean the compiler, not the compiled file
Jul 08 19:14:21 <m_billybob> gui_ did you use robert nelsons install script ?
Jul 08 19:14:25 <gui_> yes
Jul 08 19:14:30 <m_billybob> just leave it where it is
Jul 08 19:14:55 <m_billybob> the whole idea behind robert nelson instructions is that you dont need to be an admin user to use your tools
Jul 08 19:15:00 <gui_> but it works in this ~/git/dtc path which bothers me :(
Jul 08 19:15:05 <KotH> gui_: /usr/local/bin is the place where you should put self-compiled stuff
Jul 08 19:15:14 <KotH> gui_: /usr/bin is managed by your distribution
Jul 08 19:15:25 <scoobydoo> beagle boner hehe
Jul 08 19:15:31 <KotH> gui_: for more information see the file hierarchical standard (FHS)
Jul 08 19:15:39 <gui_> i just want to be able to type "dtc" in any dir and it will work
Jul 08 19:15:52 <scoobydoo> beagle boned
Jul 08 19:15:53 <scoobydoo> hehehe
Jul 08 19:15:54 <m_billybob> gui, you can do that rigth now with sudo
Jul 08 19:16:07 <scoobydoo> black beagles boning
Jul 08 19:16:10 <KotH> 21:15 < KotH> gui_: /usr/local/bin is the place where you should put self-compiled stuff
Jul 08 19:16:13 <gui_> nope, I cant
Jul 08 19:16:28 <m_billybob> gui_, as I said above the whole idea is so you can use your tools as a regular user
Jul 08 19:16:35 <gui_> i get /usr/bin/dtc: no such file or dir
Jul 08 19:16:48 <m_billybob> eh ?
Jul 08 19:16:51 <KotH> gui_: and while you are at it, get a book on unix
Jul 08 19:17:03 <gui_> yeah, I know I need to
Jul 08 19:17:12 <gui_> intensive course :P
Jul 08 19:17:12 <scoobydoo> dooby doo
Jul 08 19:17:13 <m_billybob> gui_ you iddnt install that tool as root did you ?
Jul 08 19:17:15 <scoobydoo> scrappy doo
Jul 08 19:17:17 <riot> can i boot a beaglebone black with a copy of a pandaboard debian? probably not, eh? can i replace parts and use the "salvaged" debian root filesystem?
Jul 08 19:17:19 <gui_> I did
Jul 08 19:17:20 <scoobydoo> and beagle boner
Jul 08 19:17:28 <gui_> i'm logged as root
Jul 08 19:17:33 <m_billybob> gui, thats a mistake.
Jul 08 19:17:46 <m_billybob> his instructions assume you're a regular user
Jul 08 19:17:54 <gui_> hmm
Jul 08 19:18:04 <gui_> ok, i"ll change user and run it again then
Jul 08 19:18:04 <m_billybob> hence why his instructions use sudo when need be
Jul 08 19:19:12 <m_billybob> well you may consider running apt-get install sudo && visudo <---- if need be but i  believe ubuntu somes with sudo preinstalled
Jul 08 19:19:15 <KotH> riot: the distro should work, the kernel maybe not
Jul 08 19:19:46 <gui_> i'm running on the BB, no GUI
Jul 08 19:20:28 <jmoyerman> ubuntu usually does come with sudo preloaded
Jul 08 19:20:40 <gui_> it does
Jul 08 19:21:33 <m_billybob> gui_ ive not mentioned anythign that doesnt run from the comd line
Jul 08 19:21:47 <m_billybob> i dont run a GUI on any of my linux machines
Jul 08 19:22:25 <gui_> wft? instead of reading visudo I read something "visual"
Jul 08 19:22:31 <m_billybob> then again, I dont run ubuntu either. all my Linux "boxen" are debian
Jul 08 19:22:44 <jmoyerman> visudo = vi + sudo, vim for editing sudo
Jul 08 19:23:06 <m_billybob> visudo on debian / ubuntu should open sudoers file in nano
Jul 08 19:23:14 <KotH> jmoyerman: plus some magic to avoid race conditions
Jul 08 19:23:27 <m_billybob> gui_, you do know what sudoers file is ?
Jul 08 19:23:29 <jmoyerman> KotH: touche touche
Jul 08 19:23:51 <gui_> nope, no clue :P
Jul 08 19:24:03 <gui_> i'm newbie at linux
Jul 08 19:24:07 <jmoyerman> linux crash course :D
Jul 08 19:24:21 <m_billybob> gui_ there should be n entry down close to the bottom that says somethign like root ALL( ALL) ALL or some such. change the root user name to your normal users name
Jul 08 19:24:26 <gui_> i just know some simple home-user commands
Jul 08 19:24:47 <m_billybob> ( root doesnt needs sudoer permissions )
Jul 08 19:25:18 <m_billybob> and i believe its actually root ALL ( ALL : ALL) but cant remember off hand
Jul 08 19:25:21 <gui_> i logged as regular user, now dtc works everywhere :)
Jul 08 19:25:27 <m_billybob> good :)
Jul 08 19:25:32 <KotH> gui_: home users are usually the better linux users ;)
Jul 08 19:25:55 <gui_> sure, because they don't mess with the system guts
Jul 08 19:26:17 <gui_> amirite?
Jul 08 19:26:49 <KotH> nope
Jul 08 19:26:53 * m_billybob only knows hes been using Debian since the 90's so . ..
Jul 08 19:27:00 <KotH> gui_: quite the contrary
Jul 08 19:27:03 <m_billybob> and yeah i mess with the guts plenty
Jul 08 19:27:17 <gui_> well, then I believe you misunderstood me
Jul 08 19:27:32 <m_billybob> I've still a ways to go yet before i reach pantoism, or mruism
Jul 08 19:27:37 <gui_> by home-user I meant "manage files, play music, browse web"
Jul 08 19:28:03 <gui_> 99% of time away from CLI
Jul 08 19:28:05 <KotH> gui_: dont forget "watching animes"
Jul 08 19:28:12 <gui_> a don't like them
Jul 08 19:28:20 <gui_> except for Saint Seyia
Jul 08 19:28:26 <KotH> ^^'
Jul 08 19:29:05 <gui_> faça elevaaaaar, o cosmo no seu coraçãããão!
Jul 08 19:29:14 <gui_> #nostalgia
Jul 08 19:29:54 <gui_> well, i'm starving, so I'll call my lunch time
Jul 08 19:30:00 <gui_> thanks for all the help guys
Jul 08 19:30:07 <gui_> i may be back soon
Jul 08 19:30:18 <panto> is that a threat?
Jul 08 19:31:10 <gui_> just like quantum physics, it is not. but it also is.
Jul 08 19:32:00 <gui_> see ya later o/
Jul 08 19:56:05 <scoobydoo> beagle barf
Jul 08 19:56:16 <scoobydoo> beagle boogers
Jul 08 19:56:23 <scoobydoo> beagle bored
Jul 08 19:56:39 <scoobydoo> beagle bongos
Jul 08 19:57:21 <scoobydoo> beagle butthole
Jul 08 19:57:58 <bradfa> scoobydoo, I think the proper way to make fun is without the space between the words ;)
Jul 08 19:58:27 <bradfa> aka BeagleBone BeagleBoard <- BeagleBarf
Jul 08 20:00:31 <ka6sox> bradfa, there are some here who would take offence to anyone having fun.
Jul 08 20:01:37 * KotH is offended
Jul 08 20:01:39 <KotH> ;)
Jul 08 20:01:43 * m_billybob grumbles at the mention of fun
Jul 08 20:01:55 <KotH> but then: http://26-26-54.hardwarebug.org/162
Jul 08 20:02:19 <ka6sox> KotH, thanks for reminding me...
Jul 08 20:02:26 <KotH> np
Jul 08 20:02:30 <ka6sox> when someone calls me "obnoxious" again I'll put that one out.
Jul 08 20:02:47 <ka6sox> bbl
Jul 08 20:02:55 <KotH> enjoy your lunch!
Jul 08 20:03:02 <ka6sox> quite
Jul 08 20:04:07 <scoobydoo> yeah
Jul 08 20:04:31 <scoobydoo> bugle board
Jul 08 20:04:42 <scoobydoo> you can put them on your fingers and program
Jul 08 20:04:57 <scoobydoo> or it could be a tasty byte to eat ;)
Jul 08 20:05:00 <djlewis> just blow on  them, huh
Jul 08 20:05:18 <scoobydoo> the new and improved "bugle board black" it literally blows!
Jul 08 20:06:07 <scoobydoo> twinkies is now freezing before shipment
Jul 08 20:06:13 <scoobydoo> to preserve it's shelf span past 45 days
Jul 08 20:06:35 <djlewis> i thought their life was eternity
Jul 08 20:07:09 <djlewis> once a twinky is made, only consumption will alter it.
Jul 08 20:09:18 <scoobydoo> thinking doesn't pay these days
Jul 08 20:09:20 <scoobydoo> doing does
Jul 08 20:09:25 <scoobydoo> that's why I clock in and do work
Jul 08 20:09:31 <scoobydoo> and eff stuff up
Jul 08 20:09:35 <scoobydoo> make it rain
Jul 08 20:11:12 <bradfa> scoobydoo, what kinds of stuff do you eff up?
Jul 08 20:11:50 * bradfa effs up little wireless things
Jul 08 20:11:51 <scoobydoo> eh it depends
Jul 08 20:12:01 <scoobydoo> I just make things happen
Jul 08 20:12:06 <scoobydoo> work on my car
Jul 08 20:12:08 <scoobydoo> build stuff
Jul 08 20:12:13 <scoobydoo> projects etc...
Jul 08 20:12:18 <scoobydoo> I sell Mercedes in the daytime
Jul 08 20:12:26 <bradfa> cool
Jul 08 20:12:29 <bradfa> whereabouts?
Jul 08 20:12:56 <scoobydoo> buNC
Jul 08 20:13:15 <scoobydoo> I drink monster
Jul 08 20:13:18 <djlewis> seems selling Mercedes would allow for a lot of free time
Jul 08 20:13:24 <scoobydoo> eh...not really
Jul 08 20:13:27 <scoobydoo> quite the opposite
Jul 08 20:13:34 <scoobydoo> it's raining today, I have three cars going out still though
Jul 08 20:13:54 <djlewis> drugs business must be good ;)
Jul 08 20:14:04 <scoobydoo> don't do that
Jul 08 20:14:10 <djlewis> the customers
Jul 08 20:14:20 <scoobydoo> oh no...they don't qualify typically
Jul 08 20:14:34 <scoobydoo> have to prove income now...so we just get window shoppers and day dreamers of the ghetto decent
Jul 08 20:14:51 <scoobydoo> but we get a lot of doctors, lawyers, dentist, celebrities etc...
Jul 08 20:15:19 <scoobydoo> believe it or not most football players/basketball players, don't pay their bills...so they have like great income, and horrible credit...and can't buy cars usually haha
Jul 08 20:16:16 <bradfa> scoobydoo, interesting
Jul 08 20:16:24 <scoobydoo> it is I suppose
Jul 08 20:16:27 <georgem> scoobydoo: pay cash?
Jul 08 20:16:27 <bradfa> I always wanted to sell cars as I like cars but I'm a horrible sales person :)
Jul 08 20:16:29 <scoobydoo> what do you do bradfa?
Jul 08 20:16:44 <scoobydoo> you'de think they could but they try to finance
Jul 08 20:16:48 <bradfa> scoobydoo, mostly I play with beaglebones and make them do unnatural things, especially where pmics are involved :)
Jul 08 20:16:52 * djlewis has always been too honest to be a good salse person
Jul 08 20:16:58 <djlewis> sales
Jul 08 20:17:02 <georgem> me too
Jul 08 20:17:10 <bradfa> and I dabble with msp430 stuff and sub-GHz wireless
Jul 08 20:17:18 <scoobydoo> I am the most honest guy you will meet :)
Jul 08 20:17:29 <djlewis> bradfa: and you get payed to have all that fun ;)
Jul 08 20:17:30 <scoobydoo> if I lied and got caught I wouldn't have a job where I work at
Jul 08 20:17:30 <bradfa> djlewis, yah, that's a problem for me, even with the wife and attempting to sell her on some new thing I want to buy
Jul 08 20:17:46 <bradfa> djlewis, fun :)
Jul 08 20:17:59 <georgem> scoobydoo: so maybe that means you're a very good liar :)
Jul 08 20:18:03 <scoobydoo> bradfa I have a beagle bone coming in
Jul 08 20:18:08 <djlewis> hehe
Jul 08 20:18:26 <bradfa> scoobydoo, good to hear :)
Jul 08 20:18:33 <scoobydoo> georgem, unfortunately there is a stigma against my profession and a lack of trust, I hate being grouped into that category
Jul 08 20:18:57 <djlewis> if the product can sell itself and I can keep my mouth shut then I might be able to make the sale.
Jul 08 20:19:11 <bradfa> scoobydoo, as long as you're not one of those sales people who has to go "confer with the manager" about the price of the car, then you're oK in my book :)
Jul 08 20:19:33 <bradfa> djlewis, but that means you'd have to have a good product and we all know how hard that is :)
Jul 08 20:19:43 <djlewis> yep
Jul 08 20:20:11 <scoobydoo> brad typically we do, but I don't run back and forth
Jul 08 20:20:28 <scoobydoo> I ask them what they can sell it for...and they tell me and then I go tell the customer
Jul 08 20:20:49 <scoobydoo> we are pretty transparent where I work seeing as it's a different calibur clientle
Jul 08 20:20:52 <georgem> scoobydoo: my mother sold volkwagens in the 70s to put my father through grad school.
Jul 08 20:20:57 <djlewis> but the more yo usell it for the higher your commision
Jul 08 20:21:05 <scoobydoo> depends
Jul 08 20:21:08 * bradfa just shot himself in the git foot...
Jul 08 20:21:10 <bradfa> whoops
Jul 08 20:21:14 <scoobydoo> my bonuses tend to be my bread and butter and they are unit based
Jul 08 20:21:45 * bradfa has to go interview a guy now, bbl
Jul 08 20:21:50 <scoobydoo> our expensive cars like the one I sold last week for 160k...gets you a bit of comission but they have only 6% gross margin from the factory
Jul 08 20:22:05 <scoobydoo> which is very little when you are talking about 160k and what a customers perception of discount is
Jul 08 20:22:54 <georgem> 160k, that hurts my head. I got both of my cars for free
Jul 08 20:22:55 <djlewis> scoobydoo: just tell your customers up front, if you gotta ask the price then you cant afford it :)
Jul 08 20:23:15 <djlewis> their pride wont let them not buy
Jul 08 20:23:34 <scoobydoo> lol...rich people don't pay retail that's how they hold onto their wealth
Jul 08 20:23:43 <scoobydoo> I figured that out my first month selling cars last year
Jul 08 20:23:58 <scoobydoo> it's the opposite dj trust me
Jul 08 20:24:20 <Franklin> Hello, I need help changing the resolution of the BBB
Jul 08 20:24:32 <scoobydoo> typically your less wealthy people buy things they can't afford at higher prices...and your rich people buy less than they really could, and haggle you to death
Jul 08 20:24:38 <Franklin> I added to Uenv.txt the following line:
Jul 08 20:24:39 <Franklin> setenv video="omapfb.mode=dvi:1024x768MR-16@60"
Jul 08 20:24:46 <scoobydoo> and they can walk away if it doesn't hit their desired price point...
Jul 08 20:25:28 <BobCat> Can the bb black be reflashed and/or booted from USB?
Jul 08 20:25:42 <chrisjmiller> hi guys.
Jul 08 20:25:55 <Franklin> I am booting an arch linux distro from SD card
Jul 08 20:25:56 <chrisjmiller> BobCat: i'm currently trying to redo the eMMC with ubuntu on my BBB.
Jul 08 20:26:14 <BobCat> using the microsd?
Jul 08 20:26:21 <Franklin> yes
Jul 08 20:26:24 <dm8tbr> BobCat: you can boot from USB under certain conditions. the flasher however is only available as a microsd
Jul 08 20:26:34 <BobCat> I don't have one, want to save a few dollars
Jul 08 20:26:44 <BobCat> got a lik to a howto?
Jul 08 20:26:48 <BobCat> link
Jul 08 20:27:27 <scoobydoo> is a 64g sd class 10 a good sd card to plug in a bbb
Jul 08 20:27:31 <dm8tbr> unless you are very experienced with embedded linux this won't help you
Jul 08 20:27:49 <chrisjmiller> anyone have any recommendations between ubuntu 12 and 13 on the bbb?
Jul 08 20:27:52 <BobCat> I will just have to get some experience then!
Jul 08 20:28:05 <dm8tbr> and a 2-4GB card, however slow it may be shouldn't cost much nowadays
Jul 08 20:28:54 <chrisjmiller> you don't have one in your phone you could temp repurpose?
Jul 08 20:29:10 <BobCat> true, but I'm only buying class 10 from now on so more $$
Jul 08 20:29:11 <scoobydoo> I have a 64g class 10 in my phone..but I can't get it out...it's like stuck ;(
Jul 08 20:29:18 <BobCat> nope, none in phone
Jul 08 20:29:40 <BobCat> I have regular SD for my cameras
Jul 08 20:29:50 <scoobydoo> I just told a girl she was like popcorn
Jul 08 20:29:54 <scoobydoo> she said why do you say that
Jul 08 20:30:17 <scoobydoo> I said...buttery and delicious, good with a movie, light and airy...quick and easy ;)
Jul 08 20:30:19 <scoobydoo> hahaha....
Jul 08 20:30:29 <scoobydoo> I haven't gotten a message back from her lolz
Jul 08 20:31:31 <Franklin> anyone a hint, how to edit my uEnv.txt to change the resolution? I am using ArchLinux booting my BBB from uSD card.
Jul 08 20:31:52 <scoobydoo> tripB
Jul 08 20:32:13 <scoobydoo> 10398/tyU.txt
Jul 08 20:32:16 <scoobydoo> type that
Jul 08 20:32:18 <scoobydoo> it fixes it
Jul 08 20:33:06 <chrisjmiller> has anyone gotten wifi working?  which distro are you using?
Jul 08 20:33:09 <dm8tbr> Franklin: http://bb-lcnc.blogspot.se/2013/06/force-beaglebone-black-hdmi-resolution.html
Jul 08 20:33:37 <scoobydoo> hulk5 distro
Jul 08 20:33:53 <scoobydoo> works up to 50meters with plenty of bandwidth left
Jul 08 20:34:09 <Franklin> thanks that the exact page I am allready on. :)
Jul 08 20:34:58 <scoobydoo> spoogy goo
Jul 08 20:35:05 <scoobydoo> sounds like scooby doo
Jul 08 20:37:50 <chrisjmiller> i tried copying an xz image to /dev/mmcblk1.  when i booted it seemed to work but the display was all scrambly.
Jul 08 20:38:04 <chrisjmiller> trying again with a different img.xz now.
Jul 08 20:38:46 <scoobydoo> does anyone have a BBB case that's not what is out there right now
Jul 08 20:38:58 <scoobydoo> I want something more like a Iphone case and less like a block of plastic
Jul 08 20:40:48 <scoobydoo> any one seen this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pX1cO2XhMrg
Jul 08 20:41:13 <_av500_> orange sucks
Jul 08 20:41:20 <_av500_> and thir wifi sucks
Jul 08 20:41:51 <dm8tbr> tell us news
Jul 08 20:44:55 <chrisjmiller> this time the flash worked prefectly.  now in 12.04.  weird that 13 didn't take?
Jul 08 20:50:29 <Franklin> I may have my desired resolution at the beginning, but it get changed back to 1280x1024 immediatly. I read here http://circuitco.com/support/index.php?title=BeagleBoneBlack_HDMI that after reading the EDID the resolution gets changed to the highest that my monitor can.
Jul 08 20:54:09 <scoobydoo> It's official Obama has signed our internet rights over to the goverment http://worldtruth.tv/obama-gives-himself-control-of-all-communication-systems-in-america/
Jul 08 20:54:39 <Franklin> I plugged in an older monitor with less resolution and the BBB used then 1280x720.
Jul 08 20:55:28 <djlewis> the government giveith, the govenment taketh away....
Jul 08 20:55:35 <Franklin> How can I force the BBB not to look at the EDIT and use the resolution I tell it
Jul 08 20:55:37 <SoCo_cpp_> scoobydoo any law that is UN-Constitutional is null and void, the Constitution is the highest law in the land. He must preform a government coup to pull that off for real.
Jul 08 20:56:21 <SoCo_cpp_> (of course he can postulate whatever he wants)
Jul 08 20:57:29 <scoobydoo> That's why I'm going onion router on their asses and universal currency
Jul 08 20:58:06 <djlewis> onion router is not so private. last node can monitor all traffic.
Jul 08 20:58:08 <SoCo_cpp_> It reads more like a push to illegalize dark/cryp/mesh nets.
Jul 08 21:01:10 <_av500_> dm8tbr: and the bastard guy at the reception thinking he could "fix my wifi" for me
Jul 08 21:01:23 <_av500_> he stopped a bit to think when he did not see windows
Jul 08 21:01:29 <dm8tbr> :D
Jul 08 21:17:40 <m_billybob> lol
Jul 08 21:19:57 <gui_> I said i'd be back :P
Jul 08 21:19:58 <scoobydoo> http://worldtruth.tv/obama-gives-himself-control-of-all-communication-systems-in-america/
Jul 08 21:20:15 <scoobydoo> time to take our country back gentlement
Jul 08 21:21:39 <gui_> so now I'm trying to work with ubuntu in my BB, but when I plug the USB cable, the drive does not mount on my system
Jul 08 21:24:39 <gui_> so now how can I edit the uEnv file? :(
Jul 08 21:28:14 <gui_> I mean, I can access /boot/uboot/uEnv.txt, but changing the file did not enable SPI like it did on Angstrom
Jul 08 21:29:28 <Franklin> from where do you boot your ubuntu?
Jul 08 21:29:48 <Franklin> I am using ubuntu with that image: rcn-ee.net/deb/rootfs/quantal/ubuntu-12.10-console-armhf-2013-06-14.tar.xz
Jul 08 21:30:22 <Franklin> I put that image onto a micro SD and than flashed it into the EMMC.
Jul 08 21:31:43 <gui_> I am using this one http://www.armhf.com/index.php/boards/beaglebone-black/
Jul 08 21:32:10 <gui_> LOL, now I commented a couple of lines of the uEnv and it won't boot anymore :)
Jul 08 21:32:57 <Franklin> that worked fine, I need to edit my uEnv as well. My problem is the resolution, I got the same problem with angstrom, ubuntu, debian and arch linux. I tried so many different ways to edit my uEnv but the BBB always sets the resolution by itself.
Jul 08 21:33:11 <gui_> is it possible to edit uEnv before booting?
Jul 08 21:33:24 <Franklin> Dependant on which display I use the BBB changes the resolution.
Jul 08 21:33:29 <gui_> I'm stuck at U-Boot#
Jul 08 21:33:43 <_av500_> boot from sd
Jul 08 21:33:56 <gui_> how do I do that?
Jul 08 21:34:07 <gui_> if I type boot I get ** Unable to read file zImage **
Jul 08 21:40:35 <gui_> aha! remove uSD, plug it on the computer, uncomment those lines #feelslikeanexpert
Jul 08 21:42:56 <gui_> earlier today panto was telling me that uEnv.txt should not contain line breaks. yet, this ubuntu image I'm using uses multiple lines. head = mess
Jul 08 21:43:22 <panto> it uses multiple lines
Jul 08 21:43:31 <panto> but each variable is on it's one line
Jul 08 21:43:43 <gui_> mmm
Jul 08 21:43:44 <gui_> interesting
Jul 08 21:44:22 <panto> gui_, have you read _anything_ about u-boot and variables?
Jul 08 21:47:16 <Franklin> so none of you has had problems with the resolution. I have one monitor that always cuts of upper and left part of the screen
Jul 08 21:47:24 <gui_> very little.i know, i know i need to read
Jul 08 22:00:12 <chrisjmiller> i'm stll just trying to get wifi working
Jul 08 22:00:16 <chrisjmiller> having a hell of a time doing it
Jul 08 22:00:54 <maxinux> angstrom?
Jul 08 22:00:57 <maxinux> in the gui?
Jul 08 22:01:01 <maxinux> what device?
Jul 08 22:05:44 <panto> g'night
Jul 08 22:08:35 <Tartarus> vvu, hassle joel_ over here about FIT images.  I've not used 'em before but he has :)
Jul 08 22:08:50 <vvu> spoke with him but later 2night we will look into my mail
Jul 08 22:09:37 <vvu> Tartarus: i was thinking you can give me some more info. not sure about the entry point of the kernel, load address and where i tftp the stuff.
Jul 08 22:10:58 <Tartarus> vvu, I've tried FIT images before and had things go funky
Jul 08 22:11:05 <Tartarus> Don't have a working itb file around right now
Jul 08 22:11:53 <vvu> my PC does not go where DATA of the kernel starts
Jul 08 22:12:04 <chrisjmiller> hey maxinux.  it's kaph33n.
Jul 08 22:12:13 <chrisjmiller> bbb, running ubuntu.
Jul 08 22:12:14 <maxinux> chrisjmiller:  i know ;)
Jul 08 22:12:17 <chrisjmiller> kk
Jul 08 22:12:19 <maxinux> chrisjmiller:  thats why i spoke up :D
Jul 08 22:12:25 <maxinux> i normally dont talk much in here
Jul 08 22:12:27 <chrisjmiller> @werk
Jul 08 22:12:30 <maxinux> nice
Jul 08 22:12:36 <maxinux> so .. bbb + ubuntu is a bit of a pita
Jul 08 22:12:41 <chrisjmiller> a bit
Jul 08 22:12:44 <Tartarus> vvu, hmm, found an example joel_ put in slides, minute :)
Jul 08 22:12:46 <maxinux> getting the right kernel and firmwares and everything is  awkward at best
Jul 08 22:12:52 <chrisjmiller> yeah
Jul 08 22:12:54 <chrisjmiller> seeing that
Jul 08 22:13:03 <chrisjmiller> didn't feel at home in angstrom though... need apt-get
Jul 08 22:13:05 <maxinux> once you get wifi working, power management things tend to make it die every .. well too fast .. unless you leave a ping running, etc...
Jul 08 22:13:09 <maxinux> i hear ya
Jul 08 22:13:30 <chrisjmiller> trying to cross_compile the kernel now... so i can use it to compile drivers.
Jul 08 22:13:30 <chrisjmiller> meh
Jul 08 22:13:42 <maxinux> i have one bbb running angstrom and one running ubuntu .. but had to set those projkects assigned prepping for burning man
Jul 08 22:13:52 <pru_evtout_2> running latest production image from circuitco for bbw
Jul 08 22:14:01 <maxinux> heh, cross compile is fairly easy, download the runtime, download the kernel pack thats already setup
Jul 08 22:14:14 <chrisjmiller> might have to just go back to pi, unless someone figures out wifi on ubuntu.
Jul 08 22:14:20 <pru_evtout_2> just noticed opkg package for kernel-headers is linux-3.2.42, but uname is returning 3.2.34
Jul 08 22:14:22 <maxinux> i have wifi working on my ubuntu
Jul 08 22:14:30 <maxinux> which wifi module are you using
Jul 08 22:14:31 <chrisjmiller> i have like every possible wifi chipset, so i should get something working
Jul 08 22:14:36 <chrisjmiller> which are you using :D
Jul 08 22:14:37 <maxinux> 5370
Jul 08 22:14:47 <chrisjmiller> is that realtek?
Jul 08 22:14:55 <maxinux> believe it is one of the realteks
Jul 08 22:14:58 <maxinux> uses the rtl2800 driver
Jul 08 22:15:01 <maxinux> may be a ralink ?
Jul 08 22:15:04 <chrisjmiller> ah
Jul 08 22:15:05 <pru_evtout_2> i loathe whoever is pretending to be in charge of opkg. :-|
Jul 08 22:15:06 <maxinux> if you had come to the bbq  i could have given you the bits
Jul 08 22:15:11 <georgem_home> realtek's stuff sucks
Jul 08 22:15:41 <chrisjmiller> i'm currently working with the edimax that everyone uses on pi.  rtl8192
Jul 08 22:15:52 <georgem_home> pru_evtout_2: I submit patches a few times then gave up. I maintain my own branch now
Jul 08 22:16:32 <pru_evtout_2> georgem_home: if i were to do this again, i wouldn't have  gone with the beaglebone. :-|
Jul 08 22:17:24 <maxinux> the edimax is  complete shit
Jul 08 22:17:28 <chrisjmiller> yeah
Jul 08 22:17:41 <maxinux> i found the rtl 5370's with external antenna for 6 bux to be far preferrable
Jul 08 22:17:42 <georgem_home> pru_evtout_2: what opkg related problems are you having? it doesn't break really badly until start running low on memory or disk space.
Jul 08 22:17:45 <chrisjmiller> but i have like 6 of em... so if i can make it work that is good.
Jul 08 22:18:12 <chrisjmiller> i literally have about 20 wifi dongles... from the blimps project.
Jul 08 22:18:27 <maxinux> hah, i bet
Jul 08 22:18:32 <maxinux> raspi too slow
Jul 08 22:18:37 <maxinux> we have the cocktail table working with it though
Jul 08 22:18:46 <chrisjmiller> depends what you're doing.  it's overkill for some applications.
Jul 08 22:18:47 <maxinux> older mames work OK
Jul 08 22:18:50 <chrisjmiller> yeah
Jul 08 22:18:57 <maxinux> totally
Jul 08 22:19:03 <chrisjmiller> how are you doing input?  jpac?
Jul 08 22:19:08 <maxinux> ipac2
Jul 08 22:19:10 <chrisjmiller> or some other keyb converter
Jul 08 22:19:11 <chrisjmiller> ah
Jul 08 22:19:15 <pru_evtout_2> georgem_home: mostly opkg remove raises failure messages most of the time, even though thing get removed, so all of my setup scripts have to completely ignore success/fail
Jul 08 22:19:40 <pru_evtout_2> georgem_home: it doesn't seem to care at all about version, like i'm seeing here, and i noticed in a much later kernel 3.2 install
Jul 08 22:19:46 <chrisjmiller> any support for analog controls with that?
Jul 08 22:19:58 <maxinux> would use ultra360 controls for analog
Jul 08 22:20:02 <maxinux> which if i build my standup I will do
Jul 08 22:20:07 <chrisjmiller> not that you really need them... almost everything is a digi stick and 3 buttons or less.
Jul 08 22:20:11 <chrisjmiller> hence jamma standard
Jul 08 22:20:49 <pru_evtout_2> georgem_home: and there are nice paths from the guy that makes the packages sprinkled here and there (like usr/home/<dudes name>/) that breaks installs
Jul 08 22:20:54 <chrisjmiller> i'm debating buying that used printer from you and either installing it at my work or at freespace.  not convinced yet though.
Jul 08 22:20:55 <maxinux> having to swap between 2/4/8way is annoying
Jul 08 22:21:10 <georgem_home> pru_evtout_2: have any more detailed information? Like output? I wouldn't mind taking a look at it.
Jul 08 22:21:16 <maxinux> you just need to see some of the things its printed ;)
Jul 08 22:21:23 <pru_evtout_2> georgem_home: and many things are crazy outdated, so i end up having skip opkg, and install from source.
Jul 08 22:21:31 <maxinux> you certainly need a 3d printer, i can't believe you dont have one yet
Jul 08 22:21:36 <chrisjmiller> is it 200mmx200mm?  i think that's pretty standard.
Jul 08 22:21:42 <chrisjmiller> yeah, it doesn't make sense for me to not have one yet.
Jul 08 22:21:44 <maxinux> yeah its the standard footprint
Jul 08 22:21:47 <maxinux> of all fucking people
Jul 08 22:21:51 <maxinux> why do I have 5 and you have 0
Jul 08 22:22:03 <maxinux> 4 i guess.. not 5
Jul 08 22:22:11 <chrisjmiller> well, i'll have 1 google glass on friday...
Jul 08 22:22:31 <chrisjmiller> kind of broke the bank to get it.
Jul 08 22:22:43 <Franklin> what could be a reason that my display cuts off a small part on the left side? It doesn't matter which resolution I use with the BBB. The left part is always cut of at the one screen, but just on that one.
Jul 08 22:23:07 <chrisjmiller> could be a TV option... do they have any settings for fill/stretch/overscan etc.
Jul 08 22:24:30 <Tartarus> vvu, some progress :)
Jul 08 22:25:07 <vvu> Tartarus: all these adventures are from the bugs in the Android kernel:)
Jul 08 22:25:22 <georgem_home> yes, google glass would break my bank
Jul 08 22:25:24 <Tartarus> vvu, http://pastebin.com/xJjWADvf
Jul 08 22:25:31 <chrisjmiller> i'll be getting into android and mirror api dev next week.
Jul 08 22:25:36 <Tartarus> taken from https://events.linuxfoundation.org/images/stories/slides/elc2013_fernandes.pdf
Jul 08 22:25:43 <Tartarus> Doing the ramdisk example now
Jul 08 22:25:45 <chrisjmiller> looking forward to learning about it and writing awesome software
Jul 08 22:25:47 <vvu> yep have made a .its myself
Jul 08 22:26:10 <vvu> the pastebin i sent you has my example compiled but at bootm it fails
Jul 08 22:26:30 <vvu> i think there is something fishy with my loadaddress and entry points
Jul 08 22:27:02 <chrisjmiller> MaxInux: I got those 12v SLA batteries, now I just need to figure out powering everything...
Jul 08 22:27:28 <Tartarus> vvu, the example there I just tested
Jul 08 22:27:37 <Tartarus> vvu, note 1: Add CONFIG_FIT to am335x_evm.h
Jul 08 22:27:46 <vvu> yep done already that
Jul 08 22:27:49 <Tartarus> note 2: load it to 82000000 NOT ${loadaddr}
Jul 08 22:27:59 <Tartarus> If this works I'll log the whole session
Jul 08 22:28:20 <vvu> first i tftp the blob to u-boot. at what address should i tftp it ?
Jul 08 22:28:32 <vvu> working on a BeagleBone Black
Jul 08 22:29:03 <vvu> i am tftping it to 0x80200000
Jul 08 22:29:53 <Tartarus> Ah, that's wrong :)
Jul 08 22:29:56 <Tartarus> 0x82000000
Jul 08 22:30:00 <Tartarus> not 0x80200000
Jul 08 22:30:13 <vvu> okei giving it a test now
Jul 08 22:30:29 <vvu> need to read a bit about what load addr entry point and all these bits are
Jul 08 22:31:00 <vvu> and the kernel load addr and entrypoints ?
Jul 08 22:31:06 <vvu> same 0x82000000 ?
Jul 08 22:31:34 <Tartarus> nope, sec
Jul 08 22:31:42 <Tartarus> See the pastebin :)
Jul 08 22:31:46 <Tartarus> doing the ramdisk one now
Jul 08 22:32:58 <vvu> this FIT thingie is really nice and i think i can use it in my project really well
Jul 08 22:35:17 <vvu> good i got leds blinking and done booting the kernel without ramdisk, now testing ramdisk.
Jul 08 22:35:29 <Franklin> it wasnt a screen setting, I changed to HDMI-A-1:1280x720@50 instead of HDMI-A-1:1280x720@60 and then it worked on every monitor :))
Jul 08 22:35:35 <vvu> Tartarus: but how are bootargs passed ? just set the bootargs env variable ?
Jul 08 22:35:44 <Tartarus> vvu, that's the starting point
Jul 08 22:35:48 <Tartarus> It's part of the DT
Jul 08 22:35:57 <Tartarus> U-Boot updates the chosen node
Jul 08 22:36:26 <Tartarus> http://devicetree.org/Device_Tree_Usage#chosen_Node
Jul 08 22:37:04 <vvu> ok so i need to create a chosen node in my image tree source file?
Jul 08 22:37:38 <Tartarus> Nope
Jul 08 22:37:41 <Tartarus> It's done by U-Boot
Jul 08 22:37:45 <Tartarus> based on the bootargs variable
Jul 08 22:37:50 <vvu> ok, got it
Jul 08 22:42:07 <Tartarus> vvu, blarg, are you using top of tree u-boot or v2013.04?
Jul 08 22:42:41 <vvu> i forked the mainline from your github and did some commits of my own in a separate branch.
Jul 08 22:42:51 <vvu> U-Boot 2013.07-rc2-00002-g7107153-dirty (Jul 08 2013 - 19:49:52)
Jul 08 22:43:54 <Tartarus> OK
Jul 08 22:44:00 <Tartarus> You'll wanna jump back to v2013.04 for a bit
Jul 08 22:44:04 <Tartarus> There's a bug with FIT and ramdisks
Jul 08 22:44:11 <Tartarus> And I don't want you to be blocked :)
Jul 08 22:44:30 <gui_> how can I check my uboot version?
Jul 08 22:44:41 <vvu> i hit that bug now i think :)
Jul 08 22:45:00 <vvu> when u-boot is trying to load the ramdisk
Jul 08 22:45:28 <Tartarus> It says it can't find the node
Jul 08 22:45:29 <gui_> thanks
Jul 08 22:45:37 <Tartarus> gui_, 'version'
Jul 08 22:45:45 <vvu> mhmh
Jul 08 22:45:52 <Tartarus> vvu, I'll go look at this tomorrow
Jul 08 22:45:57 <vvu> mine works for that one, hits another error
Jul 08 22:45:58 <Tartarus> Feel free to go back to v2013.04 if you want
Jul 08 22:46:02 <vvu> ok
Jul 08 22:46:04 <vvu> thx for the help
Jul 08 22:46:08 <Tartarus> Or if you wanna take a swing at fixing this you can get in the v2013.07 release :)
Jul 08 22:46:33 <Tartarus> Kinda outside the scope of your gsoc project tho, so I can understand wanting to maintain focus
Jul 08 22:47:13 <vvu> mhmh i would like to try but surely will need some help in getting my way around. :) doing extra work is no problem for me, really like this area
Jul 08 22:49:22 <vvu> Tartarus: for the ramdisk boot in bootargs root=/dev/ram ?
Jul 08 22:49:31 <Tartarus> vvu, yeah, or just run ramargs
Jul 08 22:49:34 <Tartarus> takes care of it all
Jul 08 22:49:38 <vvu> yep
Jul 08 22:49:48 <Tartarus> vvu, have you used git bisect before?
Jul 08 22:49:53 <vvu> nop
Jul 08 22:50:02 <Tartarus> I strongly suspect that http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.comp.boot-loaders.u-boot/161538 is the kulprit
Jul 08 22:50:10 <Tartarus> But, git bisect is a great tool
Jul 08 22:50:14 <Tartarus> You do:
Jul 08 22:50:17 <Tartarus> git bisect start
Jul 08 22:50:24 <Tartarus> git bisect bad bad-commit-id (or omit for HEAD(
Jul 08 22:50:30 <Tartarus> git bisect good good-commit-id
Jul 08 22:50:39 <Tartarus> And git works out saying "try this commit"
Jul 08 22:50:47 <Tartarus> then you build, test, and report good or bad
Jul 08 22:50:54 <Tartarus> And keep going until you have the commit that broke things
Jul 08 22:51:04 <Tartarus> If a commit doesn't build, you can git bisect skip it
Jul 08 22:51:06 <Tartarus> and it'll try another one
Jul 08 22:51:09 <vvu> ok will go on that later, after i finish my boot stuff here
Jul 08 22:51:17 <Tartarus> Sounds good :)
Jul 08 22:51:19 <Tartarus> about dinner time here
Jul 08 22:54:11 <Franklin> I am experimenting with the uEnv.txt and am afraid that I destroy my distro that is installed on the EMMC. To secure the distro on my EMMC is it enough to tar the /boot/uboot and to tar the / directory ?
Jul 08 22:56:36 <Franklin> I would store them on a USB stick and would boot from uSD card to access the EMMC again and untar then the two files in the right folders. Do you think that works?
Jul 08 23:00:37 <Franklin> uh too late I set a wrong resolution in the uEnv and have now no picture at all and can't ssh into the distro
Jul 08 23:00:58 <Franklin> I guess that's it, damn it
Jul 08 23:01:51 <pru_evtout_2> Franklin: why is ssh broken?
Jul 08 23:02:06 <pru_evtout_2> i'm assuming it was broken before?
Jul 08 23:02:10 <Franklin> ssh works, but I cant figure out the ip
Jul 08 23:04:55 <Franklin> oh yes, much easier then ssh. I used the usb cable and it appeard on my PC :)
Jul 08 23:07:00 <pru_evtout_2> Franklin: if you're using standardish image, plug it in to usb then eject the removable disk.
Jul 08 23:07:24 <pru_evtout_2> usb will turn into network adapter, and you can use 192.168.7.2
Jul 08 23:08:24 <vvu> Tartarus: don't think there is any bug in the mainline of u-boot about fit and ramdisk. booted up to login prompt right now with those sources
Jul 08 23:09:00 <Franklin> thank you
Jul 08 23:12:17 * georgem_home queues the next off-topic philosophical debate
Jul 08 23:16:51 <Tartarus> vvu, humm
Jul 08 23:17:02 <Tartarus> Can you pastebin or email me your its file?
Jul 08 23:17:11 <Tartarus> ramdisk wasn't working for me :)
Jul 08 23:17:47 <vvu> in the its file i loaded the ramdisk where ramargs are pointing
Jul 08 23:18:32 <vvu> Tartarus: http://pastebin.com/C68sbij1
Jul 08 23:18:44 <vvu> 0x81000000 the loadaddr and entry point for ramdisk
Jul 08 23:18:45 <Tartarus> Ah, hm
Jul 08 23:18:46 <Tartarus> I'll try that
Jul 08 23:21:14 <Yudh> Hi I'm crying in my BBB soup
Jul 08 23:21:56 <Yudh> the story is long, but problem is short - Ethernet misbehaving
Jul 08 23:22:53 <Yudh> loaded sd card and booted, lights come on and blink. Seems there is life in the thing. It never asks for a lease from he dhcp server.
Jul 08 23:23:16 <pru_evtout_2> Yudh: did you try plugging in the ethernet cable? *giggles*
Jul 08 23:23:56 <Tartarus> vvu, hunh, not enough, I'll diff 'em later, afk, thanks!
Jul 08 23:24:05 <Yudh> yes, that is where th eproblems start. I suspect the 5 v 1 amp wall wart is not supplying enough juice. It has a 16 GB card in it
Jul 08 23:24:05 <vvu> anytime
Jul 08 23:25:16 <pru_evtout_2> Yudh: did you try connected with the usb cable and seeing what's up?
Jul 08 23:25:22 <pru_evtout_2> ethernet-over-usb
Jul 08 23:25:36 <Yudh> That's where the story lengthens
Jul 08 23:26:12 <Yudh> Ive overwritten the flash but at one time yes, I could boot off ethernet over usb
Jul 08 23:26:23 <Yudh> and it did get an ip
Jul 08 23:27:58 <Yudh> even then plugging ethernet did not work from what I recall
Jul 08 23:28:20 <Yudh> it is version A5 if that makes any sense
Jul 08 23:29:20 <pru_evtout_2> to work out problems without usb or regular ethernet, you'll need a serial cable. :-\
Jul 08 23:31:23 <Yudh> Serial... plugs into what?
Jul 08 23:46:54 <ka6sox> vvu, thats a different LA and entry point than you showed me earlier
Jul 08 23:47:21 <vvu> ka6sox: fixed all issues, now i have a shell on my BBB everything taken from Android
Jul 08 23:48:30 <pru_evtout_2> vvu, you have Android running on BBB?
Jul 08 23:48:37 <vvu> no no
Jul 08 23:48:50 <vvu> booted a BBB via USB from an Android phone
Jul 08 23:48:53 <vvu> kernel+ramdisk
Jul 08 23:48:56 <vvu> not full boot
Jul 08 23:48:56 <pru_evtout_2> ahh, nice.
Jul 08 23:49:19 <pru_evtout_2> at least you can somewhat say you have BBB running from Android :D
Jul 08 23:49:28 <vvu> yeah :)
Jul 08 23:50:56 <vvu> Tartarus: am335x_evm_dfu_mmc was removed from u-boot mainline? or was it there in the first place? was looking at http://processors.wiki.ti.com/index.php/AMSDK_u-boot_User's_Guide#Updating_an_SD_card_or_eMMC_using_DFU
Jul 08 23:51:39 <ka6sox> vvu, modded kernel on the android?
Jul 08 23:52:12 <vvu> yep...
Jul 08 23:52:54 <vvu> need to find someone who knows his way around the rndis driver and to ask some questions, or some usb dumps with a good analyser to see what is happening there
Jul 08 23:53:25 <vvu> ka6sox: but compared to nothing this is way better. my plan is to have all the project working with these hacks then try to fix the bugs
Jul 08 23:54:52 <ka6sox> sounds good
Jul 08 23:55:15 <vvu> ka6sox: you are my official backup mentor ?
Jul 08 23:56:56 * ka6sox looks
Jul 09 00:26:53 <joel_> Question for distribution, can an armhf and armel distribution coexist , can we provide "ld-linux" for armhf and have it coexist with the regular non-hf ld?
Jul 09 00:27:55 <ds2> chroot
Jul 09 00:27:58 <joel_> I have an angstrom fs with a lot of stuff cross-compiled for armel, which I'm reluctant to recompile
Jul 09 00:28:24 <joel_> ds2, that's one way I guess
Jul 09 00:34:28 <LuLu_> Newbie here ... beagleboard has realtime clock?
Jul 09 00:35:19 <emocakes> iirc no
Jul 09 00:35:28 <emocakes> at least not the bbb
Jul 09 00:35:34 <joel_> ds2, without chroot, what are the problems that you think might show up with what I described
Jul 09 00:36:18 <LuLu_> can u buy an add on card for realtime clock?
Jul 09 00:36:55 <joel_> bah, I will just use an armhf FS henceforth
Jul 09 00:37:57 <joel_> I figure better to recompile everything I care about than deal with another can of worms
Jul 09 00:38:01 <mru> it can be done but it's tricky and not worth the effort
Jul 09 00:38:42 <ds2> joel_: finding ld-so
Jul 09 00:38:45 <LuLu_> can u use the arm clock?
Jul 09 00:39:10 <ds2> it'll be a "fun" project
Jul 09 00:39:25 <joel_> ds2, right ok. Actually I tried it and didn't have any problems. But I know these kind of things will bite sooner or later
Jul 09 00:39:52 <mru> finding ld.so is the easy part
Jul 09 00:39:55 <ds2> but you need it to locate the right library
Jul 09 00:40:08 <ds2> to do that you want it to load a different ld.so with a different search path
Jul 09 00:40:18 <ds2> LD_LIBRARY_PATH will only get you so far
Jul 09 00:40:50 <joel_> well they would just typically say so in their dynamic section?
Jul 09 00:40:52 <mru> reasonably recent toolchains use different names for ld.so
Jul 09 00:41:00 <joel_> objdump -x:   NEEDED               ld-linux-armhf.so.3
Jul 09 00:41:07 <joel_> *explicitly
Jul 09 00:41:30 <ds2> mru: that's cheating! :D
Jul 09 00:41:48 <mru> so if you build those with different search paths, you're good
Jul 09 00:42:35 <mru> the tricky part is making sure nothing ever finds the wrong libs
Jul 09 00:43:13 <mru> ld.so.conf and LD_LIBRARY_PATH settings can bite you there
Jul 09 00:43:31 <ds2> but you can modify ld-so to avoid that
Jul 09 00:43:43 <ds2> force prepending a hard coded string to force it to look under a sub tree
Jul 09 00:43:49 <mru> if at all feasible, just rebuild it all
Jul 09 00:44:25 <mru> ds2: that only works if everything is foumd there
Jul 09 00:45:00 <ds2> mru: but it should fail that with a lib not found
Jul 09 00:45:10 <ds2> better then mixing 2 libraries and hoping it doesn't clash
Jul 09 00:45:29 <mru> not if the wrong abi one is found later in the path
Jul 09 00:45:40 <ds2> no no
Jul 09 00:45:59 <mru> then that one will be silently used
Jul 09 00:46:02 <ds2> modify ld-so so before it does ANY open, it always prepends a path
Jul 09 00:46:16 <mru> not enough
Jul 09 00:46:30 <mru> unles
Jul 09 00:46:50 <ds2> i.e. /stupidlibrary... so if LD_LIBRARY_PATH/ld.so.conf/etc call out a path, it will be looking in /stupidlibrarypath/{string from the other sources}/file
Jul 09 00:47:14 <ds2> essentially having it go through a crude userland version of chroot
Jul 09 00:47:28 <mru> oh, like that
Jul 09 00:48:15 <ds2> normally, you can use LD_PRELOAD to catch and rewrite it but that don't work for ld.so
Jul 09 00:48:26 <mru> but that requires hacking ld.so
Jul 09 00:48:31 <ds2> yep
Jul 09 00:48:48 <mru> and you don't want to go there
Jul 09 00:49:10 <mru> not if you value what little sanity you have left
Jul 09 00:49:19 <ds2> joel's young :D
Jul 09 00:50:55 <joel_> heh
Jul 09 00:51:28 <mru> still got sanity to spare?
Jul 09 00:52:21 <joel_> ds2, by modify you meant hack the sources of ld-so or use a symlink?
Jul 09 00:52:41 <ds2> hack the sources
Jul 09 00:52:57 <ds2> You could intercept it in the kernel's sys_open handler... ;)
Jul 09 00:53:00 <emocakes> hacking is illegel ds2
Jul 09 00:53:07 <ds2> then quietly pass it on to a coworker :D
Jul 09 00:53:23 <joel_> lol :)
Jul 09 00:54:39 <joel_> ds2, don't tell me you have tried that though. have you?
Jul 09 00:55:24 <joel_> not the sys_open part but ld.so hacks
Jul 09 00:55:58 <joel_> anyway wouldn't the dynamic linker/loader check libraries choose the best ones to load based on ABI
Jul 09 00:56:54 <joel_> seems kind of messy that it would pick the wrong ones or things can go wrong with mixed libraries and that LD cannot detect that its doing something stupid
Jul 09 01:01:59 <joel_> IMO ld should really check (unless it already does) the "Dynamic section" of each library it is loading to see if it has a "NEEDED" entry for ld-linux-armhf.so.3 or similar
Jul 09 01:02:19 <joel_> and if it doesn't then, it should never load it
Jul 09 01:02:46 <ds2> joel_: no...just the LD_PRELOAD stuff.
Jul 09 01:02:57 <ds2> had to rewrite things due to #@%$@$#!@%$#@$@!#!@ binaries
Jul 09 01:03:22 <ds2> IIRC, libraries don't have a need for ld-linux-....
Jul 09 01:03:48 <joel_> ds2, true I was saying how ld can know if a library it is loading is armhf or not
Jul 09 01:04:27 <joel_> I haven't hit any problem(s) with mixed libs yet so I am just speculating
Jul 09 01:05:27 <mru> it can't easily
Jul 09 01:06:36 <mru> mixing libs often works by accident
Jul 09 01:07:47 <ds2> are you using purely non FP related libs?
Jul 09 01:11:53 <joel_> ds2, yes..anyway I am switching everything to armhf just to avoid more issues
Jul 09 01:12:49 <ds2> since armel/armhf are mainly fp stuff...
Jul 09 01:14:51 <das_plague> mru: have nice little trip over the weekend?
Jul 09 01:15:19 <joel_> ds2, sure
Jul 09 01:15:38 <joel_> mru, ds2 ok thank you both for the nice discussion, I've to pickup my fiance. Catch you guys later, cheers, bye
Jul 09 02:16:14 <_av500_>   
Jul 09 02:26:48 <mriksman> hi all
Jul 09 02:28:18 <mriksman> i have a standard beaglebone, and it does not have an LCD cape attached
Jul 09 02:28:31 <mriksman> i noticed on startup, there is no /dev/fb0 created
Jul 09 02:28:55 <mriksman> i was hoping to be able to start up the X server/gdm and connect to it via x11vnc
Jul 09 02:29:09 <mriksman> anyone have any thoughts on this?
Jul 09 02:29:13 <SpeedEvil> xdummy
Jul 09 02:29:17 <SpeedEvil> Or whatever it's called
Jul 09 02:29:25 <SpeedEvil> Xloop?
Jul 09 02:29:28 <SpeedEvil> I forget
Jul 09 02:30:02 <mriksman> im a bit green with linux, so haven't even looked at kernel recompiles
Jul 09 02:30:22 <mriksman> does the BB have some code that doesn't load a FB if a LCD cape is not detected?
Jul 09 02:30:30 <mriksman> i think I may have read something along those lines
Jul 09 02:30:52 <mriksman> where can you see the code? i think it wsa in one of the omap files where the capes are initialised
Jul 09 02:31:05 <SpeedEvil> The framebuffer generally needs configuration
Jul 09 02:31:15 <SpeedEvil> and would need to have a specific resolution setup
Jul 09 02:31:23 <mriksman> shouldnt the BB do this out of the box?
Jul 09 02:31:59 <SpeedEvil> Well - no.
Jul 09 02:32:11 <SpeedEvil> If there is no output device - what resolution should it pick?
Jul 09 02:32:24 <SpeedEvil> And why should it create one at all - if it's going to use memory?
Jul 09 02:34:32 <mriksman> right. so there probably is some kernel level instruction that skips fb creation if no device is present
Jul 09 02:34:46 <mriksman> so, how do i create a framebuffer?
Jul 09 02:35:07 <SpeedEvil> mriksman: There is an X with a dummy framebuffer
Jul 09 02:35:14 <SpeedEvil> I forget the name - Xtest?
Jul 09 02:35:28 <mriksman> xvfb doesn't exist for angstrom/BB
Jul 09 02:35:38 <SpeedEvil> Well, build it.
Jul 09 02:35:57 <mriksman> crap. haven't learnt that bit yet...
Jul 09 02:37:04 <mriksman> i think xvnc creates a virtual framebuffer as well (whilst x11vnc uses the real x11 display)
Jul 09 02:37:11 <mriksman> but xvnc also doesn't exist
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue Jul 09 03:00:00 2013