**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Aug 01 02:59:58 2013
Aug 01 03:01:17 <Russ> ...that's only two capes
Aug 01 03:01:49 <m_billybob> and with that . . .lol
Aug 01 03:02:02 * m_billybob only needs one, and has zero atm
Aug 01 03:13:11 <wmat> tcort: waterloo, ontario
Aug 01 03:13:30 <tcort> ah, cool. I'm in Gatineau, Quebec (near Ottawa)
Aug 01 03:13:44 <wmat> nice
Aug 01 03:13:57 <mranostay> a frenchie
Aug 01 03:14:23 <tcort> american expat actually :P
Aug 01 03:15:46 <emeb_mac> happy mailman day everyone!
Aug 01 03:19:33 <mranostay> the. hell?
Aug 01 03:20:55 * m_billybob shrugs
Aug 01 04:26:41 <Jon___> Hi. Can anyone advise regarding a framegrabber for the beagle?
Aug 01 04:27:21 <Jon___> Rather than USB I am looking for PC104 expansion board to bring images in
Aug 01 04:45:33 <mranostay> so does the i2c spec have a wire length limit?
Aug 01 04:46:11 <mranostay> yeah i know frequency mayers
Aug 01 04:46:13 <mranostay> *matters
Aug 01 05:10:43 <prpplague> mranostay: depends on the voltage as well
Aug 01 05:11:07 <prpplague> mranostay: 1 meter is the standard for the 100kHz at 5V iirc
Aug 01 05:12:09 <mranostay> how about 3.3v logic?
Aug 01 05:14:19 <prpplague> mranostay: i am guessing it would be proportional
Aug 01 05:14:36 <prpplague> mranostay: roughly 0.5 meter at 100kHz
Aug 01 05:22:39 <prpplague> mranostay: although if you had good matching trace lengths, good ground shielding, and matched impedence, you probably could do a pretty good distance
Aug 01 05:41:43 <Vaizki> wife asked me why did I stay up until 3:40 last night and I partly blamed all of you so ... duck & cover
Aug 01 05:48:04 <mrpackethead> Trolls
Aug 01 05:48:20 <MrKeuner> hello how much amperes should a 5v adapter provide for beagleboard black?
Aug 01 05:49:09 <mrpackethead> they don't need much but if you are getting one get something that will do at least 1A
Aug 01 05:49:25 <koen> mranostay: clock stretching might help with the distance thing
Aug 01 05:49:25 <dm8tbr> Vaizki: *phear* - I hope she's at least from northern karelia... kaulin size and all that...
Aug 01 05:49:44 <mrpackethead> And make sure it is properly regulated.
Aug 01 05:50:24 <mrpackethead> The bbb doesn't like poor power
Aug 01 05:50:51 <mrpackethead> koen:   What is clock stretching ?
Aug 01 05:58:45 <koen> mrpackethead: client holding the clock low: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I%C2%B2C#Clock_stretching_using_SCL
Aug 01 05:59:23 <koen> mrpackethead: useful if you have a touchscreen on your carseat headrest
Aug 01 06:01:34 <Vaizki> dm8tbr: south ostrobothnia
Aug 01 06:02:17 <Vaizki> MrKeuner: also if you intend to put something on the USB of the BBB, take that into account
Aug 01 06:03:22 <Vaizki> let me check what is the max draw..
Aug 01 06:03:51 <MrKeuner> hmm, there is hdmi plugged in, a usb dongle for keyboard and mouse plus an sdcard. When I remove the sdcard beagleboard boots with the adapters I tried
Aug 01 06:04:01 <MrKeuner> when sdcard is in it does not
Aug 01 06:04:45 <Vaizki> The TPS65217B PMIC on the board can be set up for a max draw of 2.5A from the 5V plug and 1.8A from USB
Aug 01 06:05:30 <Vaizki> you can't set it higher than that so no sense in getting a (much) bigger supply
Aug 01 06:06:49 <MrKeuner> I see, so 1A may actually be low if hdmi, sdcard and ethernet and usb is plugged in
Aug 01 06:07:00 <Vaizki> yes
Aug 01 06:07:21 <dm8tbr> Vaizki: k, neither is my lady. She brought a farm-house kaulin with her, XXL... ;)
Aug 01 06:07:34 <Vaizki> dm8tbr: you married a Finn?!
Aug 01 06:07:45 <MrKeuner> does the 5v port have a special name?
Aug 01 06:07:57 <MrKeuner> How can I find an adapter that will fit in?
Aug 01 06:08:02 <Vaizki> were you dropped on your head as a kid or what...
Aug 01 06:08:03 <MrKeuner> I mean jack
Aug 01 06:08:05 <dm8tbr> Vaizki: not married, but living together for a while now. Sort of comes naturally if you live in Finland and all that.
Aug 01 06:08:15 <Vaizki> dm8tbr: oh ok. whereabout?
Aug 01 06:08:19 <dm8tbr> Tampere
Aug 01 06:08:36 <Vaizki> I forgive you
Aug 01 06:08:53 <dm8tbr> hehe, yeah that special relation between tampere and turku...
Aug 01 06:09:06 <Vaizki> whaaat.. turku?! nooo.. helsinki/espoo
Aug 01 06:09:11 <dm8tbr> ah
Aug 01 06:09:48 <dm8tbr> got that wrong because you were out there on that light house closer to turku
Aug 01 06:09:52 <Vaizki> my island cabin is closer to turku though which may have confused you
Aug 01 06:09:58 <dm8tbr> :>
Aug 01 06:11:06 <Vaizki> MrKeuner: you can tune the power limits in uboot as well if you have enough power but the BBB is not using it
Aug 01 06:11:54 <MrKeuner> that's cool but i cannot even boot currently
Aug 01 06:12:26 <Vaizki> ttl usb serial cable?
Aug 01 06:13:21 <MrKeuner> Vaizki, I don't have them yet
Aug 01 06:13:52 <MrKeuner> texas instrument suggests connecting power source to 5v port
Aug 01 06:14:05 <MrKeuner> but cannot find a jack to buy that would fit in
Aug 01 06:14:24 <MrKeuner> I am an electornics very beginner
Aug 01 06:15:49 <Vaizki> it's a 5.5mm barrel jack with 2.1mm inner diameter
Aug 01 06:16:32 <JFK911> im using a 2.5mm barrel it also makes contact
Aug 01 06:18:51 <Vaizki> CircuitCo says get a 1A but.. I'd get at least one 2A supply to see if that's the problem
Aug 01 06:19:08 <MrKeuner> thank you
Aug 01 06:19:42 <MrKeuner> if I get a 20A will I burn anything?
Aug 01 06:20:09 <MrKeuner> or will it draw as much as it likes
Aug 01 06:20:40 <Vaizki> no the power supply will push all those amps into the board bursting it into flame!!
Aug 01 06:20:49 <Vaizki> just kidding.. current is drawn, not pushed :)
Aug 01 06:25:14 <MrKeuner> polarity? is the center or the outer part +?
Aug 01 06:27:49 <dm8tbr> center +
Aug 01 06:27:58 <dm8tbr> sleeve + is very very rare
Aug 01 06:29:42 <MrKeuner> thanks
Aug 01 06:51:56 <koen> LetoThe2nd: is it just me or is there a high probability of spotting a blind guardian shirt in newspaper coverage of hacker meetups?
Aug 01 06:52:19 <LetoThe2nd> koen: no idea, what are you referring to this time? ;)
Aug 01 06:53:09 <LetoThe2nd> koen: but on the reverse, i can confirm that there's a high probability of spotting a nerd/hacker at blind guardian meetups ;)
Aug 01 06:56:00 <koen> LetoThe2nd: newspaper has coverage of OHM2013
Aug 01 06:56:51 <koen> LetoThe2nd: 3.5 people in photo, one with BG t-shirt
Aug 01 06:57:15 <koen> (I admit to having a BG longsleeve somewhere in my closet)
Aug 01 06:57:34 <koen> and there's a half full mate bottle in the pic as well
Aug 01 06:57:46 <LetoThe2nd> koen: hm, not actually seeing that particular picture :)
Aug 01 06:58:37 <LetoThe2nd> koen: i'm already thinking about what to wear in edinburgh ;)
Aug 01 07:01:12 <koen> LetoThe2nd: https://plus.google.com/u/0/100242854243155306943/posts/1dPxMt8VTPb
Aug 01 07:01:55 <LetoThe2nd> koen: :)
Aug 01 07:05:58 <supreeth128> how to get started with porting any linux distribution to beaglebone
Aug 01 07:06:48 <koen> supreeth128: the smart thing would be to check if it already has been ported
Aug 01 07:10:04 <supreeth128> My aim is to port ubuntu to beaglebone. I know that there is already a ported version out there in the net. But I want to do it myself. I there any books or video which help me.
Aug 01 07:19:57 <tasslehoff> What does the little people move on to now that omap has gone the way of the dodo?
Aug 01 07:21:11 <tasslehoff> I'm trying to figure out what should be the brain in our next gen systems. i.MX6 is the only candidate so far :)
Aug 01 07:24:59 <philenotfound> tasslehoff: what's with omap?
Aug 01 07:27:55 <tasslehoff> philenotfound: TI laid off 1700 employees and have ceased development for OMAP
Aug 01 07:28:07 <tasslehoff> unless they have changed their mind and I missed the news :)
Aug 01 07:29:44 <JFK911> ti is very confusing
Aug 01 07:29:47 <philenotfound> tasslehoff: wasn't that already last year?
Aug 01 07:29:52 <JFK911> one product line has "no obsolence policy"
Aug 01 07:30:11 <JFK911> other product lines (microcontrollers) go straight from "preproduction" to "nrnd"
Aug 01 07:30:21 <JFK911> rip stellaris
Aug 01 07:30:43 <philenotfound> i thought they shifted to embedded, away from mobile phones and tablets?
Aug 01 07:30:46 <JFK911> but i can still jump back to the 60s and get their cd4000 and 74f's
Aug 01 07:31:12 <tasslehoff> philenotfound: yes,but it's just now that I have started to look for a SoC for our next gen of products
Aug 01 07:42:18 <m_billybob> am355x . . .
Aug 01 07:42:45 <m_billybob> 335x but yeah
Aug 01 07:45:48 <supreeth128> My aim is to port ubuntu to beaglebone. I know that there is already a ported version out there in the net. But I want to do it myself. I there any books or video which help me.
Aug 01 07:46:41 <dm8tbr> supreeth128: step one, acquire a build farm. step two, hire a team of developers to do the porting.
Aug 01 07:47:31 <philenotfound> supreeth128: have you tried turning it off and on again?
Aug 01 07:50:01 <supreeth128> I am entirely new to beaglebone. How to start with embedded linux with beaglebone from scratch
Aug 01 07:57:40 <philenotfound> supreeth128: expect a steep learning curve ;-)
Aug 01 07:58:25 <m_billybob> debootstrap
Aug 01 08:00:43 <tasslehoff> I guess the step from omap3530 to am335x would be smaller than the step to i.MX6. we don't use the dsp now.
Aug 01 08:01:53 <koen> tasslehoff: you'd still need a different bootloader and kernel
Aug 01 08:02:38 <tasslehoff> koen: yeah.
Aug 01 08:04:26 <supreeth128> I am expecting a steep learning curve in embedded linux using beaglebone. But I don't know the starting point.
Aug 01 08:04:43 <tasslehoff> Still, the i.MX6Q seems nice, and I see there is a meta-layer for it
Aug 01 08:12:20 <supreeth128> I would like to start embedded linux developement from scratch using beaglebone. But I am really stuck I don't know from where to start. Learning period is not a matter for me.
Aug 01 08:17:45 <dm8tbr> supreeth128: a) get familiar with gnu/linux overall, use it on your desktop too. b) run angstrom on your bbb. c) read some good books like from oreilly
Aug 01 08:25:46 <m_billybob> dm8tbr thanks !
Aug 01 08:26:31 <m_billybob> figure someone may as well thank you . . .
Aug 01 08:29:05 <mrpackethead> Russ i was cheating
Aug 01 08:37:25 <dm8tbr> m_billybob: *bow*
Aug 01 08:42:40 <mrpackethead> troll la de do.. troll la de da.. troll la la la beer chocolate dt
Aug 01 08:43:52 <kfoltman> fpga systemd JIHAD
Aug 01 08:44:07 <kfoltman> and all the kernel modules from scratch
Aug 01 08:47:12 <das> kfoltman: will need youtube tutorial with exact steps
Aug 01 08:48:32 <kfoltman> oh yes, forget the youtube tutorials and opencv
Aug 01 08:48:36 <kfoltman> forgot, even
Aug 01 08:50:58 <mrpackethead> openvc
Aug 01 08:51:54 <kfoltman> mini6410
Aug 01 09:07:02 <rob_w> so the BBB has its onboard flash as emmc .. can still load ubifs on that instead of a ext4 ?
Aug 01 09:08:00 <cde> of course, but why?
Aug 01 09:08:13 <rob_w> because i like to ?
Aug 01 09:08:36 <rob_w> i exspect the mount time to be faster , no ?
Aug 01 09:09:11 <cde> possibly! ubifs has been very solid and fast all the time I used it
Aug 01 09:09:25 <cde> still emmc already provides error correction and GC, so it's not really needed
Aug 01 09:09:52 <rob_w> imho ubifs makes more sense on a limited nand .. ext4 i see on hdds with growing sizes .. etc
Aug 01 09:10:10 <rob_w> cde, k i hear you
Aug 01 09:10:26 <cde> np bro
Aug 01 09:10:48 <rob_w> i just diving into hte BBB and therefore start my search ;-)
Aug 01 09:11:26 <cde> I think the best way to learn it to recompile everything from scratch (u-boot, kernel, userland, etc.)
Aug 01 09:11:32 <cde> rather than using a precompiled distro
Aug 01 09:11:44 <rob_w> thats my plan .. i am prepared to do that ..
Aug 01 09:11:44 <cde> that way you can dig into the source
Aug 01 09:11:59 <rob_w> done it for other boards many times
Aug 01 09:12:14 <rob_w> though i am really keen to see all that capemgr stuff .. as that is new to me
Aug 01 09:16:00 <BeagleGithub> [kernel] koenkooi pushed 1 new commit to 3.11: http://git.io/rHZdYQ
Aug 01 09:16:00 <BeagleGithub> kernel/3.11 84e7b18 Koen Kooi: 3.11: working config for beaglebone...
Aug 01 09:20:34 <das> rob_w: ubifs on top of a block device ? :S
Aug 01 09:21:22 <rob_w> das,  well ur right to question that ...
Aug 01 09:21:39 <rob_w> i am just lurking around to see why things are the way they are
Aug 01 09:21:51 <das> you'll need a transition layer block/FTD, which makes no sense IMO
Aug 01 09:21:58 <das> if emmc, don't use UBI
Aug 01 09:22:08 <das> (I think)
Aug 01 09:22:16 <rob_w> ur probably right
Aug 01 09:22:41 <rob_w> i just wonder why i need a fs that scales into terrabytes and so forth on a fixed 2GB flash
Aug 01 09:23:24 <das> doesn't UBIFS does that too ?
Aug 01 09:23:29 <rob_w> lets say this : apart from fs stability, my 2nd priority is boottime , hence mount times from filesystems play a big roll in here
Aug 01 09:23:47 <rob_w> of course ubifs scales similar ..
Aug 01 09:24:07 <ynezz> measure it
Aug 01 09:24:08 <rob_w> any way never mind ..
Aug 01 09:25:00 <rob_w> i will go with the default until 3sec mount time of the ext4 start beeing a problem
Aug 01 09:25:55 <rob_w> is there any good reference if one starts developing/integrating a new cape for the BBB ?
Aug 01 09:26:52 <das> rob_w: what's the bottleneck with ext4 ?
Aug 01 09:28:14 <koen> rob_w: http://hastebin.com/vivocivoji.css
Aug 01 09:28:16 <ynezz> if you want constant mount time and more robust system, use read-only rootfs
Aug 01 09:28:31 <koen> rob_w: 230ms between mmc being discovered and ext4 finish mounting
Aug 01 09:28:37 <rob_w> well ,, i do mount a 512gb flash on a different device with ubifs within just a few ms
Aug 01 09:28:46 <koen> that's on a beaglebone running 3.11rc3
Aug 01 09:28:55 <rob_w> hmm
Aug 01 09:29:01 <rob_w> that turns the page ..
Aug 01 09:29:02 <jackmitchell> I think read-only rootfs + overlay is something I will be looking heavily into soon
Aug 01 09:29:18 <ynezz> that's on the clean fs
Aug 01 09:29:27 <das> rob_w: if the bottleneck is reading the flash, maybe try squashfs
Aug 01 09:29:28 <rob_w> ynezz, sure that is the assumption
Aug 01 09:31:00 <rob_w> koen, may i ask you .. for me beeing a new cape designeer .. do i want to sort myself into drivers/misc/cape/beaglebone/ in the kernel ?
Aug 01 09:34:05 <Vaizki> koen: why readonly mount?
Aug 01 09:34:32 <mrpackethead> rob_w: theres little useful information
Aug 01 09:34:34 <Vaizki> how much time does remount in rw take?
Aug 01 09:34:43 <Vaizki> probably none but just checking
Aug 01 09:34:58 <das> Vaizki: can't mount a compressed FS in RW
Aug 01 09:35:32 <Vaizki> why would the ext4 root fs be compressed?
Aug 01 09:35:45 <das> why would you use ext4 to compress ?
Aug 01 09:35:56 <das> squashfs/cramfs
Aug 01 09:36:24 <mrpackethead> what is to be gained from moving to sometrhign other than ext4?
Aug 01 09:37:10 <Vaizki> das: umm I was just looking at koen's hastebin
Aug 01 09:37:11 <das> flash size, fsck, possibly mount time
Aug 01 09:37:24 <Vaizki> I thought it looked like he was mounting an ext4 root at boot
Aug 01 09:37:27 <Vaizki> as ro
Aug 01 09:37:52 <ynezz> yes, but then it's remounted rw usually
Aug 01 09:38:24 <Vaizki> right, and I was asking does that take significant extra time
Aug 01 09:38:39 <Vaizki> I don't know how compression got into it :)
Aug 01 09:39:04 <ynezz> it shouldn't
Aug 01 09:39:42 <ynezz> but the problem might arise if there's some power failure
Aug 01 09:40:05 <ynezz> sometimes ext4 couldn't be repaired automagically and then you're doomed
Aug 01 09:40:05 <das> dunno that you can repair a corrupted ext4
Aug 01 09:40:16 <das> otoh ext2 has tons of tools to do just that
Aug 01 09:40:36 <cde> rob_w: you can remove the automatic ext4 fsck checks (mount count/time) with tune2fs
Aug 01 09:40:51 <cde> typically -c / -i
Aug 01 09:40:51 <rob_w> cde,  yeah all good ..
Aug 01 09:41:05 <rob_w> i will be doing ro most of the time
Aug 01 10:02:17 <koen> Vaizki: fsck
Aug 01 10:39:51 <mikey__> hi
Aug 01 10:40:14 <mikey__> can anyone tell me how to connect putty to bbb using serial?
Aug 01 10:42:56 <dm8tbr> by opening the correct serial port
Aug 01 10:44:25 <mikey__> whats the beaglebone login
Aug 01 10:45:23 <dm8tbr> root
Aug 01 10:45:24 <mikey__> found it..
Aug 01 10:55:23 <BeagleGithub> [kernel] koenkooi pushed 1 new commit to 3.11: http://git.io/cM4eIA
Aug 01 10:55:23 <BeagleGithub> kernel/3.11 ed815eb Koen Kooi: 3.11: add cape overlays from 3.8 based tree...
Aug 01 11:25:02 <flufmnstr> im doing more PRU homework and im stuck on this example 'add r3, r1.b0, r2.w2'. where does the b0 and w2 fit into the grand scheme?
Aug 01 11:25:14 <kfoltman> bit 0, word 2?
Aug 01 11:25:18 * kfoltman guessing
Aug 01 11:25:25 <kfoltman> or byte 0
Aug 01 11:25:50 <flufmnstr> word
Aug 01 11:25:51 <flufmnstr> ?
Aug 01 11:29:10 <flufmnstr> in pru assembly speak, what constitutes a word?
Aug 01 11:29:14 <flufmnstr> *in
Aug 01 11:31:31 <flufmnstr> oh, it looks like b0 and w2 refer to memory addresses
Aug 01 11:42:02 <das> if you can't make it android, make it cloud
Aug 01 11:44:45 <philenotfound> these go up to eleven, one clouder..
Aug 01 11:54:04 <das> RIP beaglebot ?
Aug 01 12:02:18 <flufmnstr> ah, i get it now. its how it divides up the 32bit registers. b(n) is a 8 bit block where n indicates which block of 8 bits(first block, second block, etc)
Aug 01 12:02:41 <flufmnstr> w(n) is a 16bit block
Aug 01 12:02:51 <kfoltman> but, w2?
Aug 01 12:03:30 <kfoltman> there are only 2 unique 16-bit blocks in a 32-bit register, unless it allows you to access bits 8..23, which would be atypical/weird
Aug 01 12:03:31 <flufmnstr> R5.w2 would mean the second block of 16bits from registry 3
Aug 01 12:03:58 <flufmnstr> oh yeah, it counts from 0
Aug 01 12:04:09 <flufmnstr> that example was probably a typo than
Aug 01 12:04:40 <flufmnstr> but still, figured it out (success kid fist pump)
Aug 01 12:05:38 <flufmnstr> oh, its seems it increments in 8bit steps
Aug 01 12:05:57 <flufmnstr> w0 starts at bit 0, w1 starts at bit 8
Aug 01 12:06:09 <flufmnstr> but its still a 16bit block from bit 8
Aug 01 12:06:37 <flufmnstr> so im guessing w2 is 16 to 32
Aug 01 12:07:39 <kfoltman> addressing 16-bit words using byte 'address' seems weird still
Aug 01 12:08:00 <kfoltman> not completely unlikely for an MCU/low-RAM platform though
Aug 01 12:08:29 <flufmnstr> its is for the PRU system, so thats probably it
Aug 01 12:08:42 <flufmnstr> 8K per PRU and 12K shared
Aug 01 12:10:32 <kfoltman> every bit is sacred, every bit is great...
Aug 01 12:11:20 <flufmnstr> the bits must flow
Aug 01 12:12:04 <flufmnstr> '_'
Aug 01 12:18:37 <georgem> This Hardkernel ODROID-XU Octa Core big LITTLE looks pretty interesting
Aug 01 12:20:51 <georgem> Meh 10/100M Ethernet is connected via USB, thats a bit icky
Aug 01 12:21:35 <ynezz> one core for eth-over-gpio isn't that bad
Aug 01 12:21:43 <ynezz> still few left
Aug 01 12:22:40 <georgem> yeah, certainly not bad
Aug 01 12:23:16 <georgem> No, SATA but I guess thats getting greedy
Aug 01 12:25:00 <georgem> PowerVR graphics of course, which reminds me they're due for their quarterly hate mail
Aug 01 12:26:22 <kfoltman> ynezz: eth-over-gpio? did I end up on the crazy people's mailing list by accident?
Aug 01 12:27:08 <georgem> eMMC "module" is not included. That seems a bit silly since there is already an sd card slot but I guess there isn't a card standard for 8 bit
Aug 01 12:28:23 <kfoltman> this is eight cores, only 4 active at a given time?
Aug 01 12:28:40 <georgem> good question
Aug 01 12:29:24 <cde> georgem: what's wrong with powervr
Aug 01 12:29:47 <kfoltman> should we include powervr in our standard list of topics for trolly remarks?
Aug 01 12:29:55 <georgem> yes
Aug 01 12:30:12 <das> can we get a hate mail example ?
Aug 01 12:30:16 <kfoltman> to sit besides lennart and PCI-over-GPIO
Aug 01 12:30:22 <das> preferrably on youtube
Aug 01 12:30:42 <georgem> cde: they are evil, spec / source hoarding villains.
Aug 01 12:31:12 <cde> they are no less evil than qualcomm (adreno) or vivante or broadcom (videocore)
Aug 01 12:31:44 <kfoltman> that doesn't make them any less evil in absolute terms though :P
Aug 01 12:32:13 <georgem> cde: thats like saying pol pot wasn't any worse than hitler or mussolini
Aug 01 12:32:33 <cde> in fact since they provide debug libraries, working examples and in general linux support I'd say they are ok
Aug 01 12:33:09 <georgem> cde: Are you using the fb xserver on your beagle?
Aug 01 12:33:45 <cde> no, but I will.
Aug 01 12:34:05 <georgem> yeah...
Aug 01 12:35:30 <georgem> PowerVR put me through 6 months of hell when I was working on an Atom Z520 based product. I will troll them till I die
Aug 01 12:36:26 <cde> yes. still that's Intel fault, not powervr
Aug 01 12:36:30 <mru> georgem: http://26-26-54.hardwarebug.org/161
Aug 01 12:39:08 <kfoltman> georgem: heh, it needs a 20 watts power supply (5V 4A), the extra processing power might be worth it though
Aug 01 12:41:26 <rob_w> so i want to add i2c1 in my dts file .. where do i find out this pin numbers ? ala 				0x188 0x70 	/* i2c0_sda, SLEWCTRL_SLOW | INPUT_PULLUP | MODE0 */
Aug 01 12:41:26 <rob_w> 				0x18c 0x70	/* i2c0_scl, SLEWCTRL_SLOW | INPUT_PULLUP | MODE0 */
Aug 01 12:41:30 <georgem> kfoltman: If you were doing something that needed more processing power then it would be worth it. Obviously if you were doing something off of battery and didn't need the MIPS you'd want to look at one of these new A5 based boards.
Aug 01 12:42:23 <kfoltman> georgem: A8 is already almost too slow
Aug 01 12:47:47 <koen> kfoltman: a few years ago I sat in a TI meeting where the head of the department said we don't need cortex A8, we can scale the arm926 cores "easily to 1.8GHz"
Aug 01 12:47:49 <georgem> kfoltman: depends what for. I have MMU-less linux running on a 60Mhz ARM7TDMI and it makes a passable Ethernet connected remote I/O module.
Aug 01 12:48:10 <kfoltman> georgem: I mean, too slow for my particular task, not in general
Aug 01 12:48:18 <kfoltman> georgem: it's good enough for my android phone ;)
Aug 01 12:48:25 <georgem> kfoltman: right, ok :)
Aug 01 12:48:39 <koen> kfoltman: and we were talking about customers that were buying OMAP3 class chips
Aug 01 12:48:42 <kfoltman> koen: is he still working there?
Aug 01 12:48:59 <andry> Hi! Is the BeagleBone Audio Cape compatible with the BBB?
Aug 01 12:49:00 <koen> kfoltman: dunno, upper mgmt moves around a lot
Aug 01 12:49:09 <kfoltman> oh, upper mgmt, that explains it
Aug 01 12:49:16 <kfoltman> koen: I'm sure I'm not the only person with largely FPU-dependent workloads :D
Aug 01 12:49:30 <koen> kfoltman: that's what the DSP is for :)
Aug 01 12:50:16 <kfoltman> koen: there's no beagle* counterpart for DSP though
Aug 01 12:50:27 <kfoltman> apart from the original beagleboard but that's NDA city I suppose
Aug 01 12:50:49 <kfoltman> especially when the DSP task in question need access to several hundred MB of RAM ;)
Aug 01 12:50:53 <koen> kfoltman: the arm926 in question was the same as in the hawkboard
Aug 01 12:51:02 <koen> kfoltman: that line was replaced with am335x
Aug 01 12:51:08 <koen> so DSP out, PRU in
Aug 01 12:51:09 <kfoltman> grumpycatgood.jpg
Aug 01 12:51:15 <koen> and neon for free with the a8
Aug 01 12:51:23 <kfoltman> neon's good for DSP
Aug 01 12:51:30 <kfoltman> (or: some subset of it)
Aug 01 13:00:21 <angs> does anyone know any embedded board that runs linux and support industrial temperature range (-20 C to 85 C)?
Aug 01 13:00:37 <agmlego> Pretty sure the Beaglebone does that.
Aug 01 13:00:41 <mru> kfoltman: the omap3 dsp is accessible without any nda stuff
Aug 01 13:01:23 <mru> note that the omap3 dsp does not have floating-point
Aug 01 13:01:36 <kfoltman> mru: that *is* a problem
Aug 01 13:01:49 <mru> depends on what you're doing
Aug 01 13:04:21 <rob_w> how do i determine the pins id for the device tree ? the am335x manual doesnt show it ..
Aug 01 13:04:33 <rob_w> like i2c0_sda is 0x188 ?
Aug 01 13:05:00 <georgem> angs: You looking for an SoM or SBC?
Aug 01 13:05:59 <ynezz> rob_w: http://learn.adafruit.com/introduction-to-the-beaglebone-black-device-tree/overview
Aug 01 13:07:16 <angs> georgem, I don't know what they stand for, but I am looking for an embedded board like beaglebone, raspberry pi or olimex
Aug 01 13:07:22 <rob_w> ynezz, thx
Aug 01 13:07:30 <angs> but it should stand the industrial temperature range
Aug 01 13:07:36 <angs> *support
Aug 01 13:12:21 <agmlego> angs: Are you sure the bone does not?
Aug 01 13:13:12 <georgem> angs: You might look at http://www.eurotech.com/en/products/CPU-301-16
Aug 01 13:13:43 <angs> agmlego, I used to sent email on the datasheet to ask the rated temperature range, the person who replied said that it is commercial temperature range
Aug 01 13:14:07 <agmlego> angs: Also note that industrial voltages are generally far in excess of what most embedded boards are designed for.
Aug 01 13:14:29 <georgem> industrial voltages?
Aug 01 13:14:34 <agmlego> So you may end up having to put in optoisolators or level shifters.
Aug 01 13:14:49 <agmlego> georgem: Yeah, most industrial IO is 24VDC or 120VAC.
Aug 01 13:14:55 <angs> I asked about temperature range
Aug 01 13:14:59 <angs> not the voltage
Aug 01 13:15:39 <angs> georgem, have you ever used any of these board that you linked?
Aug 01 13:16:18 <agmlego> angs: What is your budget and purpose of this board?
Aug 01 13:17:43 <angs> agmlego, the one I am using costs me $130 including the custom fee
Aug 01 13:17:46 <angs> to the EU
Aug 01 13:18:11 <agmlego> ...so, are you trying to go cheaper, or more expensive?
Aug 01 13:18:11 <angs> I am looking for something cheaper
Aug 01 13:18:15 <georgem> angs: The main one I've used extensively is end of lifed now so I'm not going to bother linking you to that. I've used this one http://phytec.com/products/system-on-modules/phycore/am335x/ but we make our carrier board, case, power supply, etc
Aug 01 13:18:25 <agmlego> Ah, well, then nothing I can recommend will work.
Aug 01 13:18:56 <agmlego> angs: Have you thought about just using a board like the bone, and doing local temperature regulation?
Aug 01 13:19:35 <angs> I am going to use it on an outdoor application and here in Sweden the temperature goes below -15C during the winter
Aug 01 13:19:38 <agmlego> ALternatively, you could just take the bone board files, replace the components that are not industrially-rated, and make your own board.
Aug 01 13:19:39 <angs> sometimes even lower
Aug 01 13:19:48 <agmlego> It is open-source, after all. ;-P
Aug 01 13:20:05 <georgem> angs: Is this for a really small volume? If you have volume its worth it just to use an SoM and design your own carrier board or pay someone to do it
Aug 01 13:20:13 <angs> I don't have such good tools to be able to solder such tiny items
Aug 01 13:20:25 <agmlego> angs: THis is what fabrication houses are for.
Aug 01 13:20:36 <angs> it is small like below 100 item
Aug 01 13:20:48 <agmlego> I guess my question is, is this a personal project, or a business project?
Aug 01 13:20:59 <angs> commercial project
Aug 01 13:21:05 <agmlego> Put a heater in the box.
Aug 01 13:21:13 <georgem> ugh. I wouldn't do that
Aug 01 13:21:15 <angs> then it will consume more energy
Aug 01 13:21:20 <agmlego> Have the bone read a thermal sensor, and turn on the heater if it gets too cold.
Aug 01 13:21:40 <agmlego> But generally, cold is not the end of the range that is the issue with electronics.
Aug 01 13:21:53 <georgem> angs: What is your price point you need?
Aug 01 13:21:54 <agmlego> Heat is, and you can do cooling pretty easily.
Aug 01 13:22:07 <angs> georgem, do you know how much does the board cost on phytec ?
Aug 01 13:22:09 <angs> in average
Aug 01 13:23:15 <angs> georgem, the board that I am using costs $99 USD + $30 USD to custom fee. I am looking for something that would cost less
Aug 01 13:23:30 <angs> I don't need much performance
Aug 01 13:23:49 <georgem> angs: You're probably not going to get less than that. But... lets see
Aug 01 13:24:18 <angs> if the producer is in the EU, then it would be less complicated, I pay much for the shipping and custom fee
Aug 01 13:24:49 <agmlego> angs: YOu could always make a friend in the US who will ship things to you as gifts.
Aug 01 13:24:53 <ynezz> angs: http://olimex.wordpress.com/2013/07/25/am3352-som-module-with-1ghz-sitara-cortex-a8-soc-prototypes-are-ready/
Aug 01 13:24:56 <agmlego> No customs fees then. ;-P
Aug 01 13:25:02 <agmlego> THe CHinese do this all the time.
Aug 01 13:25:35 <georgem> angs: This might work out for you: http://www.phytec.eu/europe/products/modules-overview/cutting-edge-soms/product-details/p/phycard-s-1.html
Aug 01 13:26:19 <angs> georgem, do you know how much does it cost?
Aug 01 13:26:33 <angs> ynezz, does it really support industrial temperature range?
Aug 01 13:26:55 <georgem> angs: Do you need -40 to 85 or -20 to 85?
Aug 01 13:26:58 <ynezz> angs: they can produce it for you
Aug 01 13:27:00 <angs> -2*
Aug 01 13:27:03 <angs> -20
Aug 01 13:27:36 <ynezz> "the base EUR 26 SOM uses AM3352BZCZ100 which is 0-90C, but as you can see on the end of the post we can make these modules with any Sitara processor including parts with extended temperature range"
Aug 01 13:27:39 <angs> I asked Tsvetan before and he said they were going to produce olimex-micro that supports industrial temp. range, but I have never seen any update on their webpage
Aug 01 13:28:05 <angs> as he said, the RAMs do not support that range, otherwise the other components support the industrial temp range
Aug 01 13:28:24 <georgem> angs: I don't actually know, but based on other products out there I suspect you could get them for less than $100 if you bought a few dozen
Aug 01 13:28:54 <angs> I will send them a query, thank you
Aug 01 13:28:59 <georgem> angs: Their sales people are pretty straight, if you call and tell them how many you'd buy tell probably just send you the price
Aug 01 13:30:08 <angs> thank you, I will do that after reading the datasheet
Aug 01 13:33:21 <ynezz> anyway if the imx23 was enough for your project, why do you want am355x?
Aug 01 13:35:09 <angs> their current imx233 boards does not support the range that I want.
Aug 01 13:35:29 <angs> I can go for another board if it supports that I want
Aug 01 13:35:42 <angs> *what
Aug 01 13:36:58 <ynezz> hm, so just ask them for 100pcs of extended range board
Aug 01 13:38:49 <georgem> there's probably no harm in contacting them. if you tell them your requirements, price point and quantity they'll tell you if they have something that could work for you
Aug 01 13:40:01 <angs> I asked them before and they told me that they would release imx233-micro model that support industrial temp. range on January 2013. There is still no such board
Aug 01 13:40:31 <angs> I will send them email again as you said
Aug 01 13:41:41 <georgem> angs: I've been in your position before. Its difficult to find low cost, low volume industrial solutions :(
Aug 01 13:43:12 <ynezz> with imx23 you can do it almost at home
Aug 01 13:43:27 <angs> yes, they are very limited to find
Aug 01 13:43:41 <ynezz> 2 layer board, no BGAs
Aug 01 13:43:55 <angs> is imx233-micro 2 layer?
Aug 01 13:44:19 <ynezz> yes
Aug 01 13:45:11 <ynezz> and did you tried to run the board in that temperature already?
Aug 01 13:45:46 <ynezz> I doubt there were any issues at just -15
Aug 01 13:45:58 <ynezz> BBW is known to be running just fine in -40
Aug 01 13:46:00 <georgem> True, for low volumes you can just run each unit through temp testing
Aug 01 13:46:01 <angs> no but Tsvetan said that they tried it on -33C for a week and it worked fine. But it does not mean that the board will work reliably for 10 years
Aug 01 13:46:09 <georgem> true
Aug 01 13:46:44 <angs> he said that only the RAM does not support and it is hard to find industrial rated RAMs
Aug 01 13:46:46 <SpeedEvil> Also - be careful.
Aug 01 13:47:00 <SpeedEvil> I note that for example the gumstix processor will boot fine at -40C
Aug 01 13:47:05 <Defiant> oh, BeagleBone is evil says heise.de
Aug 01 13:47:12 <SpeedEvil> But if you go from 25C to -40C - it will hang
Aug 01 13:47:19 <SpeedEvil> As the PLL falls out of calibration and dies.
Aug 01 13:47:25 <SpeedEvil> It needs recalibration.
Aug 01 13:47:32 <mru> Defiant: what would they know?
Aug 01 13:47:46 <ynezz> SpeedEvil: and where does this condition happen in the real life? :)
Aug 01 13:47:54 <ynezz> SpeedEvil: forklifts?
Aug 01 13:48:06 <SpeedEvil> ynezz: When you are trying to use it in a high altitude balloon payload.
Aug 01 13:48:11 <ynezz> ah
Aug 01 13:48:13 <ynezz> true
Aug 01 13:48:15 * SpeedEvil is also in #highaltitude
Aug 01 13:48:19 <ynezz> :)
Aug 01 13:48:30 <Defiant> apparently someone used a Bone to iphones
Aug 01 13:48:35 <SpeedEvil> There is someone planning to launch a BBB soon - Pis have been done a lot.
Aug 01 13:48:48 <SpeedEvil> AVR/arduino derived stuff is more common.
Aug 01 13:56:55 <angs> how many layers design are beagle bone and board?
Aug 01 13:57:11 <jkridner> BeagleBone is 6 layers
Aug 01 13:57:28 <jkridner> BeagleBoard is likely a bit more.
Aug 01 13:57:43 * jkridner would need to check http://beagleboard.org/hardware/design
Aug 01 13:59:33 <flufmnstr> personally if your looking for an industrial controller with a 10 year reliability, just get an industrial controller.
Aug 01 14:03:06 <angs> linux boards are very convenient to do an application and also I would not need to deal with hardware part much. I see that olimex has industrial grade arduino type board, but it would too much hassle for me to deal with the hardware
Aug 01 14:03:34 <agmlego> angs: What is it you are building?
Aug 01 14:04:06 <angs> it is kind of a wireless sensor network to collect some information from sensors
Aug 01 14:05:23 <angs> it is convenient for me to use an OS to not to deal with hardware. it is very easy to attach wifi units to linux
Aug 01 14:05:50 <agmlego> So you are worried about power consumption, you want a wireless network of outdoor sensors, and you are concerned about therrmal ranges.
Aug 01 14:06:03 <agmlego> Sounds like you want to bolt a CC2500 chip to an MSP430.
Aug 01 14:06:10 <ynezz> lol
Aug 01 14:06:20 <agmlego> $6 per set, available worldwide.
Aug 01 14:06:30 <agmlego> Available in automotive thermal ranges.
Aug 01 14:06:43 <ynezz> how to optimize your design from Cortex-A8 to 16bit MCU in just 20 minutes
Aug 01 14:07:29 <agmlego> ynezz: To be fair, we have absolutely no information on the project other than concerns about power and monetary budget, concerns about thermal range, and an unwillingness to deal in hardware.
Aug 01 14:07:45 <ynezz> sure
Aug 01 14:07:52 <agmlego> Based on the information given, the last condition is really just whining, so I optimized. ;-P
Aug 01 14:08:10 <ynezz> I would do it with rf2500
Aug 01 14:08:20 <agmlego> Sure, whatever.
Aug 01 14:08:26 <angs> it is for sure it can be optimized, but in this stage, I can work faster on an embedded board
Aug 01 14:08:36 * agmlego has the most experience witht he CC2500, but there are numerous others in the family.
Aug 01 14:08:42 <angs> I am very noob on hardware related stuffs :)
Aug 01 14:09:03 <agmlego> angs: Just as a point of reference? An Arduino is an embedded board too. So is a board with an MSP430.
Aug 01 14:09:08 <mru> hardware is the part you can kick, that's all you need to know
Aug 01 14:09:18 <agmlego> And you know how you get better at hardware? By doing hardware.
Aug 01 14:09:22 <ynezz> rf2500 is cc2500 + MSP430F2274
Aug 01 14:09:32 <agmlego> ynezz: Neat! I will look into that.
Aug 01 14:09:37 <ynezz> ez430-rf2500 to be exact
Aug 01 14:09:58 <agmlego> Oh, OK, not on the same chip but the same board.
Aug 01 14:09:59 <angs> I mean if I run a linux board, then attaching units are very easy, if I go for arduino, I don't want to deal with AVR programming
Aug 01 14:10:03 <agmlego> Yeah, I think I have that set.
Aug 01 14:10:34 <agmlego> angs: So far, I am just hearing "Blah blah blah, I do not want to expand my knowledge base". ;-P
Aug 01 14:10:35 <angs> linux level programming is easier for me than AVR programming and trying to attach additional modules to a system
Aug 01 14:12:55 <angs> hehe :) no, my background is on wireless communication, dealing with hardware things are little bit a different path. I would like to improve myself on wireless technology first
Aug 01 14:13:59 <angs> then would like to learn other subjects
Aug 01 14:16:54 <das> where do you usually buy electronics in europe ?
Aug 01 14:17:21 <SpeedEvil> ebay.
Aug 01 14:17:37 <mru> buy electronics?
Aug 01 14:17:46 <SpeedEvil> If you mean european electronics distrubutors - farnell.com is one.
Aug 01 14:18:01 <das> farnell is usally more expensive than others
Aug 01 14:18:20 <angs> Farnell or elfa
Aug 01 14:18:41 <SpeedEvil> das: Can you ask a proper question?
Aug 01 14:18:55 <mru> if you need just a few pieces, order free samples :)
Aug 01 14:19:41 <das> SpeedEvil: where do you buy your electronics development stuff
Aug 01 14:20:02 <SpeedEvil> das: Ebay, rs, farnell, digikey, argos.
Aug 01 14:20:06 <SpeedEvil> Lidl, aldi
Aug 01 14:20:09 <das> I usually go with Conrad and the like; wondering if there are cheaper resellers
Aug 01 14:20:37 <SpeedEvil> And picking stuff out of recycling.
Aug 01 14:22:02 <das> alright thanks
Aug 01 14:31:25 <philenotfound> das: almost everybody is cheaper than conrad, in my experience
Aug 01 14:33:06 <cde> farnell, quite expensive too
Aug 01 14:33:33 <cde> ebay is usually the cheapeast, though not the fastest
Aug 01 14:33:59 <agmlego> Or the surest of quality.
Aug 01 14:37:39 <cde> yes
Aug 01 15:23:26 <Vooloo> how much faster is beagle black vs raspberry? I need it specifically to display a browser, svg and highcharts.com stuff. And raspberry is a bit too slow on the render...
Aug 01 15:23:39 <koen> 9.8m/s^2
Aug 01 15:27:24 <mru> the cpu is about 2-10x faster depending on what you're doing
Aug 01 15:27:57 <dogmatic69> Hi all, I am looking to build something for logging data from multiple sensors (around 40 / 50) at quite frequent intervals, between 1/4 second and 1 second
Aug 01 15:28:06 <dogmatic69> would the black be able to manage that sort of load?
Aug 01 15:30:34 <dcj123> I can’t seem to load the GateOne SSH client, it loads indefinitely on Firefox (Using Windows 7)
Aug 01 15:31:03 <dcj123> Cloud9 works as does ssh via putty
Aug 01 15:31:20 <mru> so use that
Aug 01 15:31:32 <mru> gateone is a piece of crap anyway
Aug 01 15:32:20 <dcj123> Okay, yeah I wasn't really worried about it for actual use. I was just tested everything
Aug 01 15:33:34 <dcj123> I figured it can't be too good loading from a web browser
Aug 01 15:39:57 <dcj123> I actually want reflash the eMMC with Ubuntu or Debian but don't want to lose Cloud9, is that possible?
Aug 01 15:40:09 <dcj123> I am assuming Angstrom Linux is setup as a web server, would it possible to move the html files from Angstrom Linux to Ubuntu or Debian? To have the basic setup with Cloud9
Aug 01 15:47:43 <cde> yes
Aug 01 15:49:18 <dcj123> Great where are the html files? on my server they are in /srv/httpd/ but that doesn't seem to exist on Angstrom Linux
Aug 01 16:22:43 <mranostay> what is gateone exactly?
Aug 01 16:23:53 <Russ> mranostay, seems to be a piece of software without any perceivable functionality
Aug 01 16:37:00 <sirpatrick> Has anyone here used the beagleboard, or beagleboard-xM as a reference for another product? I am not sure if that is even a common thing for someone to do
Aug 01 16:37:38 <Defiant> LetoThe2nd: ^your job
Aug 01 16:37:48 <sirpatrick> heh, we meet again
Aug 01 16:38:01 <LetoThe2nd> hehe
Aug 01 16:38:08 <LetoThe2nd> well i'm gonna leave really soon
Aug 01 16:38:34 <LetoThe2nd> koen: ping - didn't you tell me that cco sells the beagle also as a use-in-your product version?
Aug 01 16:38:40 <sirpatrick> No worries. I am just trying to design a workflow for my product development
Aug 01 16:45:12 <sirpatrick> Ok, I have a more specific and non abstract question. If I were wanting to add a wifi card and or cellular card to the beagleboard, what technologies should I look for as far as connectivity goes? I have seen TTL and PCI
Aug 01 16:45:41 <mru> huh
Aug 01 16:46:00 <mru> spi, sdio, or usb are the usual choices
Aug 01 16:46:50 <sirpatrick> Ok, and I would just need to research and see if drivers exist for the specific hardware
Aug 01 16:46:58 <mru> right
Aug 01 16:47:08 <LetoThe2nd> just buy a cheapo huawei usb dongle
Aug 01 16:47:25 <mru> won't that send a copy of everything to the chinese spooks?
Aug 01 16:47:42 <LetoThe2nd> mru: probably, but who cares?
Aug 01 16:48:03 <sirpatrick> For this application that wouldn't matter.
Aug 01 16:48:05 <sirpatrick> lol
Aug 01 16:48:26 <Sean_McG> eheh
Aug 01 16:48:30 <sirpatrick> Also, I would want to integrate this onto the PCB, not just plug it in.
Aug 01 16:48:52 <Sean_McG> did they end up actually buying 3com?
Aug 01 16:48:52 <LetoThe2nd> using beagleboard != integrating things. anways, time to leave. seeya
Aug 01 16:48:53 <mru> epoxy
Aug 01 16:49:08 <sirpatrick> See ya
Aug 01 16:50:16 <sirpatrick> .mru: I have experience modifying other PCBs but nothing as big as the beagle, would modifying its schematic and PCB to add an embedded wireless card be incredibly hard, or just work and refinement?
Aug 01 16:50:41 <mru> depends
Aug 01 16:50:54 <sirpatrick> Ok, how can I refine my question
Aug 01 17:02:11 <MarDog> RE HDMI connector on BeagleBoard Black: Can the HDMI output be converted to an HDMI input? I'd like to capture images that would otherwise go to the display.
Aug 01 17:02:20 <agmlego> No.
Aug 01 17:05:00 <MarDog> What might be the way to listen in, so to speak, on the HDMI output to capture screen images?
Aug 01 17:05:20 <sirpatrick> Apologies if I am asking nonsensical questions. I don't have much experience designing, just working on them.
Aug 01 17:05:28 <panto> err, you can screen capture on the bone
Aug 01 17:05:31 <mru> MarDog: just read the framebuffer
Aug 01 17:05:41 <panto> why would you care about the specific h/w output?
Aug 01 17:06:37 <agmlego> I suspect MarDog is trying to use the bone to sniff frames from a different output source.
Aug 01 17:07:35 <agmlego> MarDog: Generally, that kind of thing is done with a CPLD or FPGA. YOu might look at the Zynq--that might be fast enough for HDMI. Also remember that a lot of HDMI stuff is encrypted using HDCP.
Aug 01 17:07:51 <MarDog> I would like a small device to read a headless (i.e. no HDMI monitor) HDMI output
Aug 01 17:07:59 <mru> agmlego: but the hdcp master keys were discovered
Aug 01 17:08:07 <mru> and the protocol itself is open
Aug 01 17:08:08 <agmlego> mru: Yes they were.
Aug 01 17:08:22 <agmlego> Still requires you to decrypt the stream, which is additional processing.
Aug 01 17:08:50 <mru> trivial to do in an fpga or so
Aug 01 17:09:01 <mru> the cipher is very simple
Aug 01 17:09:13 <agmlego> True.
Aug 01 17:09:22 <Defiant> as if fpga programming is trivial..
Aug 01 17:09:31 <mru> presumably to keep device costs down
Aug 01 17:09:36 <Russ> well, there's already rtl out there to do hdcp
Aug 01 17:09:46 <MarDog> I was thinking that some software written in Linux on a BB would work
Aug 01 17:09:53 <agmlego> In any case, I brought it up simply so MarDog was aware of it.
Aug 01 17:09:57 <mru> hdcp is just xor with some feedback
Aug 01 17:10:05 <agmlego> mru: Except the bone does not have HDMI input.
Aug 01 17:10:12 <agmlego> Er, MarDog
Aug 01 17:10:58 <MarDog> I gathered that the HDMI was only output, hence the first questions
Aug 01 17:11:47 <MarDog> ... so we went to a broader solution
Aug 01 17:12:14 <agmlego> MarDog: In any case, if you want to do that, I suggest getting some form of FPGA-bnased HDMI input, and bolting it onto the bonbe as a parallel or SPI device.
Aug 01 17:12:15 <panto> gee, samsung caught redhanded tweaking benchmarks
Aug 01 17:12:18 <MarDog> please elaborate on the cypher
Aug 01 17:12:18 <panto> I'm not surprised
Aug 01 17:12:29 <agmlego> Or getting a Zynq, which is dual-core ARM9 with FPGA on one die.
Aug 01 17:12:40 <agmlego> MarDog: Wikipedia exists. ;-P
Aug 01 17:13:03 <Russ> there is a bunnie studios product that can do hdcp
Aug 01 17:15:04 <mru> agmlego: hdmi.org would be a better source of info
Aug 01 17:15:39 <MarDog> Thanks all. lots to think about. any last words?
Aug 01 17:15:40 <agmlego> mru: Sure, but Wikipedia is a fast, general overview for someone who may not know what s/he is doing.
Aug 01 17:15:58 <agmlego> mru: Rabble, robble, bing, bang, boo.
Aug 01 17:16:05 <agmlego> Er, MarDog ^^^
Aug 01 17:16:08 <mru> yes, relying on wikipedia is a sign of not knowing what one is doing
Aug 01 17:19:46 <MarDog> If we all knew what we were doing, we wouldn't be having chats. just saying
Aug 01 17:20:23 <MarDog> thanks again
Aug 01 17:21:49 <MarDog> how does one quit chat?
Aug 01 17:22:24 <MarDog> I'll check wikipedia  :-)
Aug 01 17:22:43 <XorA> your stuck here forever :-D
Aug 01 17:22:47 <mru> insult an op
Aug 01 17:22:54 <XorA> like the rest of us damned souls!
Aug 01 17:23:00 <MarDog> Hotel California
Aug 01 17:23:34 <mru> with added trolls
Aug 01 17:23:56 <MarDog> quit
Aug 01 17:24:04 <MarDog> that didn't work
Aug 01 17:24:08 <Russ> see, stuck
Aug 01 17:24:18 <Russ> /quit
Aug 01 17:24:21 <Russ> nothin'
Aug 01 17:24:22 <MarDog> Aaaaahhh
Aug 01 17:24:44 <monzie> Just powered up my brand new bbb.  I can browse the files but ssh gives "ssh_exchange_identification: Connection closed by remote host"
Aug 01 17:25:55 <monzie> My host system is ubuntu 13.04.  The command I used was ssh -v root@192.168.7.2
Aug 01 17:30:06 <monzie> Any ideas on how to troubleshoot the ssh connection?
Aug 01 17:30:22 <mru> serial console
Aug 01 17:31:09 <panto> monzie, what's the output using ssh -v?
Aug 01 17:31:40 <mru> and pastebin
Aug 01 17:32:18 <monzie> ssh -v root@192.168.7.2 OpenSSH_6.1p1 Debian-4, OpenSSL 1.0.1c 10 May 2012 debug1: Reading configuration data /etc/ssh/ssh_config debug1: /etc/ssh/ssh_config line 19: Applying options for * debug1: Connecting to 192.168.7.2 [192.168.7.2] port 22. debug1: Connection established. debug1: identity file /home/rca/.ssh/id_rsa type -1 debug1: identity file /home/rca/.ssh/id_rsa-cert type -1 debug1: identity file /home/rca/.ssh/id_dsa type -1
Aug 01 17:32:26 <mru> PASTEBIN!
Aug 01 17:32:28 <panto> pastebin
Aug 01 17:33:49 <monzie> ssh -v root@192.168.7.2 OpenSSH_6.1p1 Debian-4, OpenSSL 1.0.1c 10 May 2012 debug1: Reading configuration data /etc/ssh/ssh_config debug1: /etc/ssh/ssh_config line 19: Applying options for * debug1: Connecting to 192.168.7.2 [192.168.7.2] port 22. debug1: Connection established. debug1: identity file /home/rca/.ssh/id_rsa type -1 debug1: identity file /home/rca/.ssh/id_rsa-cert type -1 debug1: identity file /home/rca/.ssh/id_dsa type -1
Aug 01 17:33:53 <monzie> Sorry
Aug 01 17:33:59 <mru> PASTEBIN!
Aug 01 17:34:29 <mru> or we'll feed you to the troll
Aug 01 17:34:48 * _troll_ smells food
Aug 01 17:35:54 <_SY_> hello
Aug 01 17:36:52 <Vooloo> are there any cases for beagle black yet?
Aug 01 17:36:58 <jkridner> several
Aug 01 17:37:08 <mru> altoids tins...
Aug 01 17:37:14 <monzie> http://pastebin.com/eRxP3c8P
Aug 01 17:37:36 <monzie> First time I've used pastebin
Aug 01 17:38:08 <jkridner> https://plus.google.com/communities/104960311812236799231/stream/a29fe679-ba11-42e9-b2ce-e12d25fde021 isn't a bad place to start looking
Aug 01 17:38:18 <jkridner> +1 on the Altoids tins
Aug 01 17:39:18 <panto> monzie, that's weird
Aug 01 17:39:34 <panto> what kind of distro you have loaded on the bone?
Aug 01 17:40:04 <mru> this would be much easier to debug by looking at the server logs
Aug 01 17:41:16 <monzie> I haven
Aug 01 17:41:31 <monzie> I haven't changed the os yet.  Whatever it shipped with
Aug 01 17:41:49 <panto> so it's angstrom...
Aug 01 17:42:01 <monzie> I assume so
Aug 01 17:42:02 <Vooloo> anyone know a good store in Europe you can order both a case and the card? I can only find the card beagle black
Aug 01 17:42:32 <panto> http://hipstercircuits.com/problems-with-beaglebone-black-and-their-solution/
Aug 01 17:51:03 <monzie> tx panto debugging ssh hosts file
Aug 01 17:52:21 <georgem> mru: you might get a kick out of this: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/systemd-devel/2013-August/012487.html
Aug 01 17:52:29 <Vooloo> what OS do you recommend with BBB for a 24/7 web browser (possibly chromium?)
Aug 01 17:52:56 <SpeedEvil> WinCE
Aug 01 17:54:20 <Vooloo> Im not gonna run windwos
Aug 01 17:59:38 <dm8tbr> panto: interesting, so ssh was broken not just for me
Aug 01 17:59:48 <Vooloo> Running the browser and rendering SVG, will that use the GPU or CPU?
Aug 01 18:00:42 <_SY_> has anyone seen the new system coming from Apple?
Aug 01 18:01:08 <_SY_> http://www.apple.com/uk/mac-pro/
Aug 01 18:01:14 <_SY_> Click on the dots to the right of the page.
Aug 01 18:02:54 <georgem> Vooloo: Without proprietary powervr xserver performance would probably be crap
Aug 01 18:03:42 <Vooloo> Is the output video only 1280×1024 max resolution, that blows :(
Aug 01 18:03:42 <georgem> Vooloo: Midori is a pretty good browser
Aug 01 18:04:28 <georgem> yeah, I think. Don't use a BBB if you're all that concerned with graphics
Aug 01 18:05:00 <Vooloo> Is there anything else you can use to get Apple TV performance around the same cost?
Aug 01 18:06:07 <georgem> How much is Apple TV? $100?
Aug 01 18:06:13 <Vooloo> Yeah
Aug 01 18:06:31 <Vooloo> Including case really
Aug 01 18:06:48 <Vooloo> 1920 x 1080  resolution
Aug 01 18:08:07 <mranostay> we aren't in kansas anymore
Aug 01 18:08:31 <georgem> we arent?
Aug 01 18:12:35 <georgem> Vooloo: Raspberry Pi is probably the only think that would come close for under $100 but not sure if you could do 1080p 60fps even WITH the hardware decoding working. Maybe you'd have better luck putting custom firmware on an off the shelf set top box?
Aug 01 18:13:28 <mranostay> georgem: we do not speak of that here
Aug 01 18:13:41 <georgem> yeah, I know
Aug 01 18:13:47 <Vooloo> georgem: yeah but its too slow :(
Aug 01 18:14:01 <mranostay> but it is only $35
Aug 01 18:14:08 <georgem> so, there probably isn't anything for under $100
Aug 01 18:16:16 <mranostay> georgem: unless you steal it of course
Aug 01 18:16:22 <suihkulokki> the new chromestick is 35$ and could possibly do
Aug 01 18:17:34 <cde> yes
Aug 01 18:17:55 <Vooloo> if only they had put better video on the beagle that would be great
Aug 01 18:22:04 <mru> cnc machines really need 1080p60
Aug 01 18:22:38 <suihkulokki> meanwhile, BBB has become stock image for hacking iphones: http://www.theverge.com/2013/7/31/4577266/apple-will-keep-fake-chargers-from-hacking-your-iphone-with-ios-7
Aug 01 18:24:10 <nodothefrom> Does anyone know if a 4 port usb will work if it's not powered?
Aug 01 18:24:29 <nodothefrom> I only need to plug in a small usb powered keyboard and a wifi dongle for a mouse
Aug 01 18:27:08 <mru> try and find out
Aug 01 18:30:16 <nodothefrom> yeah, I just don't want to open this package and then ahve to go return it and feel like an asshat for destroying their packaging
Aug 01 18:38:59 <djlewis> though wifi dongles are usually hungry
Aug 01 18:40:15 <emeb> Hi djlewis - longtime no chatz.
Aug 01 18:41:42 <djlewis> emeb: Hi dude, hows life out in god's country?
Aug 01 18:46:23 <emeb> Hot & humid. It's that time of year you know.
Aug 01 18:46:30 <cde> so I just assembled my http://www.built-to-spec.com/blog/kit-instructions/beaglebone-black-enclosure-assembly/
Aug 01 18:46:49 <cde> clever design although it is lacking holes on the top for airflow and gpios and serial
Aug 01 18:47:29 <jkridner> shouldn't really need airflow.
Aug 01 18:47:53 <emeb> must be overclocking *a lot* :)
Aug 01 18:47:59 <cde> I planned to overclock it, possibly with water cooling
Aug 01 18:48:07 <jkridner> probably various ambient temperature environments would be more detrimental to operation.
Aug 01 18:48:28 <jkridner> interesting.
Aug 01 18:48:33 * jkridner turns around
Aug 01 18:48:38 <cde> for the lulz!
Aug 01 18:59:10 <mranostay> djlewis: god's country?
Aug 01 19:02:50 <emeb> sleep comes like a drug in God's country.
Aug 01 19:04:40 <Russ> emeb, in a mule?
Aug 01 19:05:03 <Russ> smuggled from colombia?
Aug 01 19:07:21 <emeb> on the backs of young immigrants with calves the size of cantaloupes, apparently.
Aug 01 19:07:30 <djlewis> emeb: Oh NO! did your humidity reach 30%, heaven forbide ;)
Aug 01 19:07:56 <Russ> emeb, I saw that and was like O_o?
Aug 01 19:08:30 <emeb> djlewis: 108F & 24% today. It was up to ~70% last week though.
Aug 01 19:09:24 <djlewis> emeb:  yep, ours has been hoovering from 60% to 90% humidity but the temps have been kind this year.
Aug 01 19:09:26 <mrpackethead> hey russ, embed
Aug 01 19:09:36 <Russ> I half expected him to continue and describe sweat glistening off their perfectly arched backs, chestnut eyes...
Aug 01 19:09:51 <emeb> hey now!
Aug 01 19:09:57 <Russ> course, I suppose it was already weird enough as it was
Aug 01 19:10:27 <emeb> too weird for #beagle though?
Aug 01 19:10:36 <mrpackethead> nothing is too weird for #beagle
Aug 01 19:10:38 <panto> nothing is too weird for #beagle
Aug 01 19:10:44 <Russ> are we describing immigrants, or a character from a romance novel
Aug 01 19:10:53 <mrpackethead> panto: that was freaky weird
Aug 01 19:11:14 <djlewis> I been harvesting tomatoes. green beans, lettuce, carrots, onions and bell peppers this season.
Aug 01 19:11:30 <djlewis> All from my 12x20 garden
Aug 01 19:11:43 <mrpackethead> djlewis: with your harvesting-cape?
Aug 01 19:11:45 <georgem> Nice
Aug 01 19:11:45 <emeb> djlewis is ready for the grocery apocalypse
Aug 01 19:12:02 <djlewis> I do love home grown :)
Aug 01 19:12:08 <djlewis> waits
Aug 01 19:12:14 <emeb> too easy
Aug 01 19:12:21 <Russ> don't wait too long and let the birds get 'em
Aug 01 19:12:31 <georgem> djlewis: My garden faces south and I think I need a canopy over it because everything gets too roasted by the fun
Aug 01 19:12:39 <emeb> djlewis: we garden here too, but from ~Sept - May. Summer is too hot for most crops.
Aug 01 19:12:45 <Russ> georgem, too much fun over there, eh?
Aug 01 19:12:56 <djlewis> Mine didnt put out the last two years.
Aug 01 19:13:03 <Russ> maybe tone it down a bit
Aug 01 19:13:04 <georgem> sun even
Aug 01 19:13:10 <djlewis> fu nin the sun
Aug 01 19:13:16 <djlewis> hmm
Aug 01 19:14:08 <georgem> I was thinking it would be cool to have a retractable canopy that deployed automatically when the UV index hit a certain threshold
Aug 01 19:14:56 <georgem> too windy here to have it up all the time
Aug 01 19:15:19 <mranostay> what is gardening?
Aug 01 19:15:39 <mru> djlewis: fee fie foe fum?
Aug 01 19:15:41 <Russ> georgem, sounds like a beagle project, include a wind and uv sensor
Aug 01 19:16:14 <djlewis> mru: had my bean posts been taller than 6ft the beans would keep climbing.
Aug 01 19:16:15 <georgem> Russ: or maybe just have it pull that from a weather site?
Aug 01 19:16:42 <Russ> you could I suppose, don't know how well that would work for wind
Aug 01 19:17:52 <georgem> there is a tiny grass field airport down the street I think they have a weather station that comes through on wunderground.com might be good enough. *shrug*
Aug 01 19:18:02 <georgem> probably half mile away
Aug 01 19:18:10 <Russ> that'd worrk
Aug 01 19:21:41 <panto> g'night
Aug 01 20:12:41 <sirpatrick> does anyone have a rough idea on bom + production cost for the beagleboard xm in lower quantities?
Aug 01 20:13:17 <KotH> depends on your definition of "lower quantities"
Aug 01 20:13:43 <KotH> probably in the range of 100-200usd per pcs, plus 1000NRE
Aug 01 20:14:12 <sirpatrick> oops, that is incredibly vague. Apologies.  low quantity would be 100-200 a year?
Aug 01 20:14:15 <sirpatrick> maybe more
Aug 01 20:14:29 <KotH> then rather around 200 than 100
Aug 01 20:14:50 <sirpatrick> What is the 1000NRE for? silk screen and stuff like that>
Aug 01 20:14:59 <KotH> setup costs
Aug 01 20:15:52 <sirpatrick> Ah I see. Do you have experience fabbing your own beagleboards?
Aug 01 20:15:59 <KotH> no
Aug 01 20:16:07 <KotH> but we do a lot of stuff of similar complexity
Aug 01 20:17:12 <sirpatrick> Oh okay. Open to whatever advice you have for someone doing their first run on something as "big" as beagleboard xm. I have done small mcu stuff before.
Aug 01 20:17:46 <KotH> get someone who knows how to do that stuff
Aug 01 20:17:58 <djlewis> circuitco does it
Aug 01 20:18:56 <sirpatrick> Well in my particular situation they don't have any type of EE that does pcb or embedded stuff
Aug 01 20:19:12 <KotH> "they"?
Aug 01 20:19:37 <djlewis> your own design
Aug 01 20:19:40 <djlewis> ?
Aug 01 20:19:49 <sirpatrick> the customer I am working with. Long story short is I designed a prototype product on a beagleboard and they really liked it. They want it made into a product
Aug 01 20:20:58 <KotH> hmm..
Aug 01 20:21:27 <KotH> there are two ways to procede: either do your own design and get it produced, or get some contractor to build you a pcb
Aug 01 20:21:39 <mrpackethead> sirpatrick: its an non-trivial exercise
Aug 01 20:22:02 <mrpackethead> at 200 units, you really need to be asking if its worth the effort
Aug 01 20:22:55 <KotH> sirpatrick: mrpackethead would be one of those who know how to do such a board :)
Aug 01 20:24:13 <andry> Hi! I writed the Android image for the Beagle Bone Black on a microSD card, I put the sd card into the slot, applied power, then pressed the S2 button, 4 led flashes, leds continue to flash but no signal on the hdmi output. Please help!
Aug 01 20:26:48 <djlewis> dejavu
Aug 01 20:27:48 <djlewis> andry: first load takes a lloonngg time
Aug 01 20:28:29 <_av500_> ahoi
Aug 01 20:33:18 <ostrichbones> does anyone know if I need to repartition my microsd if I put Fedora 19 on it?
Aug 01 20:35:19 <sirpatrick> mrpackethead: worth the effort?
Aug 01 20:35:54 <sirpatrick> What would be the alternitive?
Aug 01 20:36:00 <KotH> sirpatrick: he means that it a lot of work of designing and producing such a board
Aug 01 20:36:07 <mrpackethead> sirpatrick: hi
Aug 01 20:36:12 <sirpatrick> hi :)
Aug 01 20:36:12 <mrpackethead> sorry was on phone
Aug 01 20:36:13 <mrpackethead> but back now
Aug 01 20:36:42 <sirpatrick> Right, I agree. Really it is just the beagleboard with the addition of cell, and wireless
Aug 01 20:36:56 <mrpackethead> what i'm saying is do not fall into the trap of 'trivialising' how much work is involved in making something like a beagleboard
Aug 01 20:37:09 <mrpackethead> sirpatrick: could you use a Beagleboard black?
Aug 01 20:37:21 <mrpackethead> beaglebone black
Aug 01 20:37:26 <sirpatrick> Yea i understand it is easy to fall into that thought
Aug 01 20:37:35 <mrpackethead> and put the other bits on an external cape
Aug 01 20:37:44 <sirpatrick> Well this product is basically a kiosk that uses a web interface
Aug 01 20:38:12 <mrpackethead> well, i'd seriously think that a bbb would do the trick nicely
Aug 01 20:38:16 <sirpatrick> so performance wise it needs to be able to have a responsive web browser that can view html5 fine
Aug 01 20:38:31 <sirpatrick> it needs a 10 inch touch lcd as well
Aug 01 20:38:33 <mrpackethead> easy path.
Aug 01 20:38:33 <sirpatrick> Oh really?
Aug 01 20:38:48 <KotH> sirpatrick: uhmm.. is the customer initial cost driven, or per piece cost driven?
Aug 01 20:39:13 <mrpackethead> i'd go for a BBB, an external wireless router with wifi/ceullar interface and a COTS monitor
Aug 01 20:39:17 <KotH> only in the later case, it might make sense to do your own board... but not necessarily
Aug 01 20:39:25 <mrpackethead> but for 200
Aug 01 20:39:44 <mrpackethead> you dont' really need to build anything new
Aug 01 20:39:49 <mrpackethead> jsut integrate some new stuff
Aug 01 20:40:00 <mrpackethead> integrate some stuff together into a new solution
Aug 01 20:40:14 <sirpatrick> i am not sure what you mean by initial cost driven or per piece driven
Aug 01 20:40:30 <mrpackethead> my engineering lecturers said " if you can buy it, buy it. "
Aug 01 20:40:38 <mrpackethead> ie, dont' go building stuff that already exisits
Aug 01 20:40:55 <KotH> can your customer pay the development of a new board upfront or not?
Aug 01 20:41:07 <mrpackethead> KotH: I think i convinced my self last night to shell out the $$$ to buy altium
Aug 01 20:41:16 <KotH> mrpackethead: ok...
Aug 01 20:41:18 <cde> cool, hdmi working out of the box on my bbb
Aug 01 20:41:19 <dnil> sirpatrick, I do these kinds of custom hardware designs for customers. But I agree with the concern from other, at 200 units it is hard to justify...
Aug 01 20:41:23 <KotH> mrpackethead: i hope you like it
Aug 01 20:41:29 <cde> that was seriously satisfying
Aug 01 20:41:45 <mrpackethead> I'm worried about the learning curve
Aug 01 20:41:50 <cde> those blue leds are a little obnoxious however
Aug 01 20:41:58 <mrpackethead> I might go and do the two day course
Aug 01 20:42:13 <mrpackethead> cde:  you have an old one then
Aug 01 20:42:29 <mrpackethead> the nwewer ones they are much dimmer
Aug 01 20:42:29 <sirpatrick> yes they will pay cost
Aug 01 20:42:33 <mrpackethead> thankfully
Aug 01 20:42:35 <sirpatrick> I am essentially working for them
Aug 01 20:43:03 <mrpackethead> sirpatrick: we are doing somethign similar but compeltely different
Aug 01 20:43:09 <mrpackethead> using the BBB for a "job"
Aug 01 20:43:21 <mrpackethead> we'll be making 1000's of them
Aug 01 20:43:28 <KotH> sirpatrick: he means "fun" when he says "job" :-)
Aug 01 20:43:39 <georgem> mrpackethead: nice
Aug 01 20:43:43 <mranostay> trolllllllllllllllll!
Aug 01 20:43:52 <KotH> CHOCOLAAAAAAAATE!
Aug 01 20:43:53 <sirpatrick> right. if this goes good they will buy many more
Aug 01 20:43:58 <_av500_> ahoi
Aug 01 20:44:08 <dnil> sirpatrick, One thing you might need to consider is that CircuitCo specifically does not give you warranties if you include the beaglebone in a product.
Aug 01 20:44:17 * mrpackethead puts on his anti-troll cloak
Aug 01 20:44:32 <sirpatrick> thats fine. I have used it in devices for a long time without problems
Aug 01 20:44:52 <mrpackethead> Jihad
Aug 01 20:44:55 <ostrichbones> do I need to repartition my microSD hard drive if I have installed Fedora 19 on it?
Aug 01 20:45:02 <mrpackethead> glad we are over those saluations
Aug 01 20:45:10 <ostrichbones> BTW Fedora 19 runs rather nice on the beaglebone black
Aug 01 20:45:18 <_av500_> ostrichbones: repartition why?
Aug 01 20:45:20 <KotH> mrpackethead: "those salutations"?
Aug 01 20:45:26 <_av500_> since it runs "rather nicely"
Aug 01 20:45:31 <KotH> _av500_: heyo!
Aug 01 20:45:35 <_av500_> yo
Aug 01 20:45:39 <ostrichbones> av I have a 64gb micro and I just want to make sure I have left over space for downloads etc...
Aug 01 20:45:43 <mrpackethead> _av500_: rather nicely better than angstrom
Aug 01 20:45:50 <KotH> _av500_: i see you made it back from ebonia
Aug 01 20:45:54 <_av500_> no
Aug 01 20:45:57 <_av500_> tomorrow
Aug 01 20:46:02 <KotH> poor boy
Aug 01 20:46:05 <_av500_> we'll drive
Aug 01 20:46:06 <mrpackethead> only reason i can think that you would isntall another distro, is that it works better than the one you had
Aug 01 20:46:12 <KotH> but at least you have internet now :)
Aug 01 20:46:20 <ostrichbones> mrpackethead I believe it does
Aug 01 20:46:35 <mrpackethead> so, sirpatrick you need to carefully consider if the effort to build a new board is worth it
Aug 01 20:46:40 <ostrichbones> I also like the user interface much better and the displays
Aug 01 20:46:48 * _av500_ grab a can of beer and heads to the shower
Aug 01 20:46:52 <_av500_> grabs
Aug 01 20:47:23 <mrpackethead> _av500_: beer and eggs are alleged to be good shampoo
Aug 01 20:47:54 <_av500_> no
Aug 01 20:47:58 <_av500_> I will use it internally
Aug 01 20:51:48 <sirpatrick> mrpackethead: Yea I need to figure this out, It is kind of stressful being in this situation.
Aug 01 20:52:06 <mrpackethead> sirpatrick: if you are making sub 1000
Aug 01 20:52:17 <mrpackethead> then i'd hihgly recommend that you stick to useing some stock parts
Aug 01 20:52:34 <mrpackethead> sirpatrick: what EAD package do you use
Aug 01 20:52:58 <sirpatrick> I have only used eagle. Looks like beagle uses orcad and or altium
Aug 01 20:53:14 <sirpatrick> stock parts being like a mini atx mother board with an atom processor?
Aug 01 20:53:25 <mrpackethead> sirpatrick: you coudl just use a Beagleboneblack
Aug 01 20:53:38 <mrpackethead> its $45 and sounds like it would give you most of the functionaity you need
Aug 01 20:53:50 <mrpackethead> you'd just need to add an external wifi/ceullar router
Aug 01 20:53:57 <mrpackethead> a power supply
Aug 01 20:54:01 <mrpackethead> and a monitor
Aug 01 20:54:25 <sirpatrick> right, I suggested just using COTS usb stuff, but they for some reason wanted the embedded modules
Aug 01 20:55:00 <mrpackethead> well good luck
Aug 01 20:55:13 <mrpackethead> if you are going to go down the path of designing your own board
Aug 01 20:55:18 <mrpackethead> hope you have 6-12 months to do it
Aug 01 20:55:28 <mrpackethead> and Eagle wont' cut it
Aug 01 20:55:29 <mrpackethead> :-)
Aug 01 20:56:20 <sirpatrick> Yea I know.
Aug 01 20:56:38 <sirpatrick> In over my head apparently
Aug 01 20:57:04 <dnil> sirpatrick, Where are you located?
Aug 01 20:57:13 <sirpatrick> US
Aug 01 20:57:37 <sirpatrick> Nevada
Aug 01 20:58:00 <mrpackethead> dnil: were are you located
Aug 01 20:58:05 <dnil> sirpatrick, Just find someone that can help you design the HW you need in Orcad
Aug 01 20:58:23 <sirpatrick> My worry is that this will eliminate their need for me
Aug 01 20:58:24 <dnil> Europe, Sweden
Aug 01 20:58:24 <SpeedEvil> I note http://www.mauve.plus.com/opensourcehw.txt - which goes into some of the issues of designing complex hardware - and why it's not simple.
Aug 01 20:58:35 <sirpatrick> thank you for the link speed
Aug 01 20:58:57 <SpeedEvil> You can easily go through a dozen revisions of boards before getting one that works.
Aug 01 20:59:23 <dnil> sirpatrick, Designing the hardware is one thing, integrating the functionality (SW and FW) is usually what is the bulk of the work
Aug 01 20:59:47 <sirpatrick> speed: Yea tell me about it.
Aug 01 20:59:51 <sirpatrick> and dnil: yea that is true
Aug 01 21:00:10 <mrpackethead> SpeedEvil: that artical is opinion rather than fact
Aug 01 21:00:42 <SpeedEvil> mrpackethead: So all boards work just fine the first time?
Aug 01 21:01:06 <dnil> There is no need to go through many board revision if the task is to integrate HW functionality from already existing working separate HW designs.
Aug 01 21:01:07 <mrpackethead> the facts (a) through (g) are mostly crap
Aug 01 21:01:08 <SpeedEvil> This is based on discussions - amongst other things - with people who have actually designed complex boards like phones.
Aug 01 21:01:25 <dnil> If you know what you are doing (as always...)
Aug 01 21:01:57 <mrpackethead> (a) putting on wrong components is very avoidable
Aug 01 21:02:00 <SpeedEvil> If you know what you are doing, and are using a reference design - yes - that can reduce the risks enormously.
Aug 01 21:02:22 <mrpackethead> (b) sloppy soldering is something that is avoidable
Aug 01 21:02:25 <SpeedEvil> Putting on wrong components is avoidable - yes. However it is a not uncommon error - especially in quantities of one.
Aug 01 21:02:36 <mrpackethead> (c) that always happens, ask TI
Aug 01 21:03:05 <SpeedEvil> Sloppy soldering of SMD components is unfortunately to some degree a reality in one-off boards.
Aug 01 21:03:06 <mrpackethead> (e) is avoaible by buying reliably, and you can tell if an ic has been resoldered
Aug 01 21:03:19 <mrpackethead> SpeedEvil: not here its no
Aug 01 21:03:29 <mrpackethead> same process as production
Aug 01 21:03:36 <mrpackethead> pasted and reflowed
Aug 01 21:03:40 <SpeedEvil> Yes, it's the same process as production.
Aug 01 21:03:41 <mrpackethead> why does it have to be
Aug 01 21:04:04 <SpeedEvil> No, you haven't got the procuction parameters exactly nailed down 100%.
Aug 01 21:04:37 <mrpackethead> I just think that article is opinionated by someone who has'nt bothered to do the leg-work to do it properly.
Aug 01 21:04:50 <mrpackethead> do i have to do multiple revisions
Aug 01 21:04:54 <mrpackethead> yes of course
Aug 01 21:05:01 <mrpackethead> but its no different from software
Aug 01 21:05:21 <SpeedEvil> It is very different from software to a degree - if a compile costs $1K or more.
Aug 01 21:05:38 <SpeedEvil> This is largely slanted towards mobile design.
Aug 01 21:05:47 <SpeedEvil> For simpler boards, it gets much, much easier.
Aug 01 21:06:04 <SpeedEvil> For stuff you can do single layer at home, much of the above doesn't apply.
Aug 01 21:06:23 <dnil> The cost and complexity of each "compile" is one reason why reuse has come much further in HW than in SW
Aug 01 21:06:27 <Russ> simulation can make a big difference when it comes to how many revs you need
Aug 01 21:06:30 <kfoltman> heh, let's do open source ASICs
Aug 01 21:06:45 <kfoltman> then a 'compile' costs more like $100K ;)
Aug 01 21:06:52 <dnil> kfoltman, There are open-source ASICs
Aug 01 21:06:57 <SpeedEvil> If you've got a 8 layer board crammed dozens of high density BGAs, then there isn't a cheap way of doing it.
Aug 01 21:07:20 <SpeedEvil> And yes - simulation can help. But there are no mixed mode simulators of many parts.
Aug 01 21:08:21 <mrpackethead> SpeedEvil: it is'nt easy, but its not as hard as that article makes out either
Aug 01 21:08:37 <mrpackethead> i'm just saying i dont' see that article as balanced
Aug 01 21:08:54 <mrpackethead> but also you shoud'nt trivilise the design.
Aug 01 21:08:55 <SpeedEvil> The above was largely aimed at people who start from the basic position that open source hardware design solves all problems.
Aug 01 21:09:37 <SpeedEvil> And it should make it more obvious that it gets lots easier if you are starting with a known design of relatively limited complexity.
Aug 01 21:09:38 <kfoltman> mrpackethead: Well, it mentions smartphone class of complexity
Aug 01 21:09:54 <kfoltman> not an arduino-based blinky led
Aug 01 21:10:06 <SpeedEvil> If you're talking about something you can do on a 2 layer board - then many of the above concerns go away.
Aug 01 21:10:40 <SpeedEvil> As soldering on that class of board _is_ simple. And the number of components you are likely to use make reliability problems much less of a concern - and you are more likely to be able to do it yourself.
Aug 01 21:11:14 <kfoltman> sure
Aug 01 21:11:59 <kfoltman> Anyway, I got into software because it's mostly a painless iterative process
Aug 01 21:12:17 <kfoltman> Not so much with hardware. And it's definitely not cheap.
Aug 01 21:12:36 * SpeedEvil sighs.
Aug 01 21:12:46 * SpeedEvil needs to get his laser BGA dead-bugger built.
Aug 01 21:13:01 <kfoltman> Even if you can make a PCB at home, you still need boards and chemicals to do more iterations.
Aug 01 21:13:25 <SpeedEvil> Sure - but that can be literally $5 or under per in some cases.
Aug 01 21:14:33 <mrpackethead> um, home pcb fab, is not so much of an opton for me
Aug 01 21:14:36 <mrpackethead> :-)
Aug 01 21:14:52 <mrpackethead> i spent a lot of money on a PCB mill last year
Aug 01 21:14:59 <mrpackethead> and it turned out to be a waste of time
Aug 01 21:15:04 <mrpackethead> lucky they gave our money back
Aug 01 21:15:05 <SpeedEvil> PCB mills seem likely to be dissapointing
Aug 01 21:15:14 <kfoltman> mrpackethead: surely not for your beaglething
Aug 01 21:15:16 <SpeedEvil> Especially with todays pitches.
Aug 01 21:15:26 <mrpackethead> SpeedEvil: not for our beaglething
Aug 01 21:15:34 <mrpackethead> lpkf S63
Aug 01 21:15:36 <kfoltman> PCB mill = something that drills tracks instead of etching them?
Aug 01 21:15:43 <SpeedEvil> kfoltman: pretty much
Aug 01 21:15:45 <mrpackethead> mills tracks
Aug 01 21:15:51 <Russ> SpeedEvil, open source pcb level simulation tools would help open source hardware a lot
Aug 01 21:16:00 <SpeedEvil> Russ: Well - to a degree.
Aug 01 21:16:01 <kfoltman> Russ: word
Aug 01 21:16:02 <mrpackethead> it is a remarkbly complex problem
Aug 01 21:16:06 <m_billybob> mrpackethead, you all are making them as per spec, or are changing some things ?
Aug 01 21:16:10 <kfoltman> electronics *is* physics
Aug 01 21:16:19 <kfoltman> simulating physics is hard
Aug 01 21:16:20 <mrpackethead> am i making what as spec?
Aug 01 21:16:27 <m_billybob> kfoltman sneezing is physics . . .
Aug 01 21:16:31 <kfoltman> mrpackethead: beagleclone
Aug 01 21:16:31 <SpeedEvil> Russ: The other half of the problem is - where do I get a nice electrical/physical/thermal/... model of an omap3630 or whatever.
Aug 01 21:16:37 <SpeedEvil> Russ: TI don't do them.
Aug 01 21:16:49 <Russ> not even IBIS?
Aug 01 21:16:51 <kfoltman> m_billybob: sure, but you don't need to simulate it precisely
Aug 01 21:16:56 <m_billybob> mrpackethead i read up and it seemed you said your company is making 1000's of BBBs ? or somethign else ?
Aug 01 21:16:57 <jkridner> TI releases IBIS
Aug 01 21:17:06 <mrpackethead> not BBB's
Aug 01 21:17:11 <m_billybob> ah bummer
Aug 01 21:17:17 <mru> isn't ibis a bird?
Aug 01 21:17:18 <SpeedEvil> Russ: I mean a model of the complexity that would allow you to reduce all risks.
Aug 01 21:17:22 <mru> did someone release one from its cage?
Aug 01 21:17:29 <kfoltman> mrpackethead: what was wrong with that box?
Aug 01 21:17:34 <kfoltman> ibisboard?
Aug 01 21:17:36 <kfoltman> ibisbone?
Aug 01 21:17:37 <Russ> SpeedEvil, well IBIS certainly reduces a large number of risks from the PCB design side of things
Aug 01 21:17:40 <mrpackethead> we are making somethign that has an AM3559 and some other glue on it
Aug 01 21:17:46 <mru> or are you referring to the rather crappy hotel chain?
Aug 01 21:17:49 <m_billybob> mrpackethead  I saw a potential "group build"
Aug 01 21:17:59 <mrpackethead> m_billybob: there would be no point
Aug 01 21:17:59 <SpeedEvil> Russ: even limited better opensource simulation tools would be nice, yes.
Aug 01 21:18:02 <kfoltman> mru: aren't you repeating yourself?
Aug 01 21:18:15 <mrpackethead> $45 for a BBB is a *very* good price
Aug 01 21:18:20 <Russ> even a simple spice simulation for some circuits can help reduce risk of doing stupid things
Aug 01 21:18:20 <mru> kfoltman: huh?
Aug 01 21:18:27 <kfoltman> mru: 'crappy hotel chain'
Aug 01 21:18:31 <m_billybob> mrpackethead one off maybe 10's but in hundreds, or thousands . ..
Aug 01 21:18:42 <mru> kfoltman: there are much better hotel chains
Aug 01 21:18:43 <m_billybob> im assuming they cost more if you have them custom made
Aug 01 21:18:47 <mrpackethead> m_billybob: 22,000 is the breakeven
Aug 01 21:19:07 <mrpackethead> its simply not worth doing
Aug 01 21:19:16 <kfoltman> mrpackethead: (I mean, what's wrong with that mill)
Aug 01 21:19:21 <mrpackethead> if you are going to simply make the beagle-clone-grey
Aug 01 21:19:36 <m_billybob> mrpackethead in the context of somethign commercial you *can* have CCO custom build you BBBs even if they are exactly the same as the hobbyist board. I am assumign they would charge more
Aug 01 21:19:37 <mrpackethead> kfoltman: the LPKF S63 series is extremley dissapointing
Aug 01 21:19:55 <mrpackethead> m_billybob: CCO dont' even bother to respond to quotes
Aug 01 21:19:59 <mrpackethead> after the promise to
Aug 01 21:20:08 <mrpackethead> they are so overworked
Aug 01 21:20:18 <mrpackethead> that i coud'nt rely on them to do my jobs in a timely fashion
Aug 01 21:20:19 <m_billybob> ah so then even more so going outside of them
Aug 01 21:20:50 <mrpackethead> kfoltman: if a machien that crashes its mill head into the tool holder is ok
Aug 01 21:21:04 <mrpackethead> or if it randomly offsets the work mid way
Aug 01 21:21:09 <m_billybob> mrpackethead did you have some custom made ? I recall someone talking about it, or maybe it was you, but talking of someone else making PCBAs for you
Aug 01 21:21:12 <mrpackethead> or it struggles to maintain cutting
Aug 01 21:21:16 <dogmatic69> Switching from arduino to the bbb, how much is similar/different with regards to IO and sensors?
Aug 01 21:21:36 <kfoltman> mrpackethead: sounds... bad
Aug 01 21:21:48 <mrpackethead> kfoltman: it was bad, and the local agent was just terrible
Aug 01 21:22:00 <mrpackethead> kfoltman: in the end, i threatened legal action
Aug 01 21:22:11 <m_billybob> dogmatic69 its muc different in most ways similar in some ways read: bonescipt
Aug 01 21:22:19 <mrpackethead> we just in the end walked away from it, they returned our money
Aug 01 21:22:35 <m_billybob> I kind of view bonescript as an interductory *thing* to embedded design
Aug 01 21:22:42 <m_billybob> no idea how anyone else views it
Aug 01 21:22:51 <mrpackethead> AccurateCNC make a good machine
Aug 01 21:23:00 <mrpackethead> but i am thinking about a differnet process now
Aug 01 21:24:19 <m_billybob> introductory or whatever lol wow where'd i pull thatword out from ?
Aug 01 21:24:31 <dogmatic69> m_billybob: sure, like training wheels or something :D
Aug 01 21:24:35 <kfoltman> mrpackethead: of course, I'm just asking out of curiosity, as I only got two PCBs made so far, only got one (another is on its way from Seeeeed) and the one I got had two IC pins swapped (my mistake)
Aug 01 21:24:56 <m_billybob> dogmatic69, yes, its the way i look at it. The BBB is far more complex
Aug 01 21:24:56 <mrpackethead> my real issue is speed
Aug 01 21:25:06 <mrpackethead> thats why i want to inhouse the pcb fab for prototypes
Aug 01 21:25:15 <kfoltman> as in turnaround?
Aug 01 21:26:07 <dogmatic69> m_billybob: I have been searching for what sort of performance it can give when reading from many sensors. Cant seem to find anything though
Aug 01 21:26:18 <dogmatic69> you know of any resources?
Aug 01 21:26:42 <m_billybob> dogmatic69 thats too general of thinking really, depends on what you use, and how you use it
Aug 01 21:26:46 <flufmnstr> digital or analog sensos?
Aug 01 21:27:58 <m_billybob> dogmatic69, the AM3359 has what is called a PRU on it sort of like a striped down Cortex core, well two of those actually, that can operate independant of the OS the BBB runs on
Aug 01 21:28:35 <prpplague> mrpackethead: yea CCO has been overworked in the past, we've brought on more engineering staff to handle custom configurations
Aug 01 21:28:55 <_av500_> prpplague: your night job?
Aug 01 21:29:05 <prpplague> _av500_: night, day, weekend, holidays
Aug 01 21:29:31 <prpplague> _av500_: if i make it a year, they'll pay for my zanax
Aug 01 21:29:31 <m_billybob> so there is that one respect. as far as actualy number of sensor running at once over GPIO, UART, SPI, I2C etc, dotn kow if anyone could truely say how much it could handle until someone passes that threshhold
Aug 01 21:29:49 <mru> prpplague: less exciting than dexter's night job
Aug 01 21:29:50 <mrpackethead> prpplague: leaves a pretty bad taste though, when you promise to get a quote out
Aug 01 21:29:53 <mrpackethead> and dont' come back
Aug 01 21:30:00 <prpplague> mrpackethead: understood
Aug 01 21:30:26 <mrpackethead> prpplague: a "sorry we are just too busy, maybe in 6 months" is an acceptable answer
Aug 01 21:30:30 <prpplague> mrpackethead: it's what happens with a small business expands to a large company over night
Aug 01 21:30:49 <prpplague> mrpackethead: yes i agree
Aug 01 21:30:49 <mrpackethead> prpplague: tell me about it. I know eaxatly that pain
Aug 01 21:30:57 <prpplague> mru: i bet
Aug 01 21:31:02 <m_billybob> dogmatic69, anyhow i  think you'll run out of pins before you run out of horsepower
Aug 01 21:32:01 <dogmatic69> m_billybob: well I am looking to build a datalogger similar to these http://www.racepak.com/Loggers/G2X_Pro.php
Aug 01 21:32:27 <dogmatic69> with 40 -> 60 sensors, mixed analogue / digital / i2c etc.
Aug 01 21:32:58 <m_billybob> at what rate ?
Aug 01 21:33:00 <dogmatic69> readings between 1 and 20Hz depending on the sensor
Aug 01 21:33:14 <XFaCE> just to confirm, this 5v 2.5amp ac adaptor I have should work fine with the BBB?
Aug 01 21:33:22 <dogmatic69> eg: tmp must less frequent than GPS
Aug 01 21:34:00 <m_billybob> dogmatic69 not sure, but it doesnt sound unreasonable.
Aug 01 21:34:41 <dogmatic69> arduino, with my bloated code, managed about 10 sensors with writing to SD card
Aug 01 21:34:44 <Russ> XFaCE, so long as it doesn't lie and has the right plug size/polarity
Aug 01 21:34:45 <flufmnstr> XFaCE just check the polarity before plugging it in
Aug 01 21:35:23 <XFaCE> plug size seems right
Aug 01 21:35:43 <XFaCE> how can you tell polarity?
Aug 01 21:35:47 <m_billybob> dogmatic69 yeah well assuming it is possible and like I said it doesnt sound unreasonable, you can forget about using bonescript. lol
Aug 01 21:35:49 <mrpackethead> so, prpplague CCO now has some extra staff onboard?
Aug 01 21:35:53 <Russ> usually marked on the wall wart
Aug 01 21:36:10 <XFaCE> wall wart?
Aug 01 21:36:13 <mrpackethead> are they going to "white lable" the bbb?
Aug 01 21:36:16 <flufmnstr> XFaCE on the wall wart theres a mark thats a line through a circle and a dot
Aug 01 21:36:25 <dogmatic69> m_billybob: ye, I been dusting off the assembly books
Aug 01 21:36:29 <m_billybob> dogmatic69 actually is a good question though.
Aug 01 21:37:00 <flufmnstr> the line to the circle(partial circl, looks like a C) is the outside of the barrel. the dot is the pin.
Aug 01 21:37:02 <dogmatic69> m_billybob: also, add wireless of some sort and a screen :D
Aug 01 21:37:05 <XFaCE> flufmnstr: the "wall" of the ac adaptor?
Aug 01 21:37:31 <flufmnstr> XFaCE on the same area you read the voltage and amprage
Aug 01 21:37:45 <Wmickael> hi
Aug 01 21:37:47 <m_billybob> dogmatic69 I mean worse case, maybe you have a few atmel chips running in concert with the BBB.
Aug 01 21:37:48 <XFaCE> oh ok
Aug 01 21:37:56 <Russ> http://i.stack.imgur.com/zsp7C.png
Aug 01 21:37:58 <flufmnstr> XFaCE somehting like these http://support.radioshack.com/support_tutorials/batteries/images/polarity-all.gif
Aug 01 21:38:03 <XFaCE> flufmnstr: I see - -------C------- +
Aug 01 21:38:05 <prpplague> mrpackethead: yea we just expanded from 25000sqft to 50000sqft building
Aug 01 21:38:22 <prpplague> mrpackethead: we have 3 folks now handling sales requests like yours
Aug 01 21:38:28 <dogmatic69> m_billybob: ye, my initial plan was a network of attiny chips feeding an arduino, then found the BBB
Aug 01 21:38:34 <mrpackethead> prpplague: ok.
Aug 01 21:38:41 <prpplague> mrpackethead: and we have 3 EE's on hand now specifically for OEM work
Aug 01 21:38:47 <mrpackethead> prpplague: ok.
Aug 01 21:38:49 <flufmnstr> XFaCE thats center positive, which i believe the BBB is(im still using usb power at the moment)
Aug 01 21:39:06 <XFaCE> "What is the polarity of the DC power jack?
Aug 01 21:39:06 <XFaCE> Center positive"
Aug 01 21:39:07 <flufmnstr> double check the manual and if its right, plug 'er in!
Aug 01 21:39:16 <XFaCE> flufmnstr: says the wiki :P
Aug 01 21:39:20 <flufmnstr> ah, than plug 'er in!
Aug 01 21:39:26 <flufmnstr> hehe
Aug 01 21:39:31 <m_billybob> got to run though more work to do !
Aug 01 21:39:36 <m_billybob> bbl
Aug 01 21:39:47 <XFaCE> *********BOOOOOOOOOOOOOM*************
Aug 01 21:39:53 <XFaCE> j/k
Aug 01 21:39:56 <flufmnstr> when it comes to wallwarts, the amper rating is the maximum you can pull from it
Aug 01 21:40:08 <flufmnstr> not what its pushing out.
Aug 01 21:40:15 <mru> ohm's law
Aug 01 21:40:28 <XFaCE> flufmnstr: so 2.5 amp is fine
Aug 01 21:40:31 <XFaCE> whew
Aug 01 21:40:37 <flufmnstr> so if the BBB pulls 300ma(i believe) you can 2.2 amps of overhead
Aug 01 21:40:46 <flufmnstr> LOTS of juice. ;)
Aug 01 21:40:50 <XFaCE> excellent
Aug 01 21:41:05 <flufmnstr> s/can/have
Aug 01 21:41:15 <XFaCE> I also have a "battery charger" from the 80s, with 140 mA
Aug 01 21:41:22 <XFaCE> oh wait
Aug 01 21:41:27 <XFaCE> not the 80s
Aug 01 21:41:32 <XFaCE> um
Aug 01 21:41:40 <XFaCE> it says JUL-SEP-95
Aug 01 21:41:44 <XFaCE> lol
Aug 01 21:41:48 <mru> 140mA, is that a joke?
Aug 01 21:41:57 <XFaCE> bioe
Aug 01 21:41:59 <XFaCE> nope
Aug 01 21:42:07 <XFaCE> mru: it's a quote
Aug 01 21:42:32 <XFaCE> it literally says 140mA
Aug 01 21:42:41 <mru> don't use battery chargers for other things though
Aug 01 21:42:55 <mru> they are often constant-current
Aug 01 21:42:55 <XFaCE> it's a standard AC adaptor
Aug 01 21:42:56 <XFaCE> lol
Aug 01 21:43:03 <XFaCE> 0.14A
Aug 01 21:43:08 <XFaCE> yeah, think it's a bit low
Aug 01 21:43:16 <flufmnstr> XFaCE is that input or output
Aug 01 21:43:20 <mru> it's probably a dumb slow-charger
Aug 01 21:43:25 <XFaCE> output :P
Aug 01 21:43:35 <XFaCE> 5V
Aug 01 21:43:40 <XFaCE> 0.14 A
Aug 01 21:43:48 <XFaCE> from July or Sept 95
Aug 01 21:43:49 <flufmnstr> weird.
Aug 01 21:43:52 <XFaCE> yep
Aug 01 21:43:59 <XFaCE> better put it back, can't use that one
Aug 01 21:44:06 <flufmnstr> either way, way too low for the BBB
Aug 01 21:44:13 <XFaCE> thankfully the USB hub one with 2.5A is here
Aug 01 21:44:37 <flufmnstr> ive been using cellphone chargers
Aug 01 21:44:42 <XFaCE> it powered the D-Link USB 1.0 router in its previous life, now it has a better purpose
Aug 01 21:44:50 <XFaCE> flufmnstr: hmm, you can use those?
Aug 01 21:44:54 <XFaCE> I mean, makes sense
Aug 01 21:45:09 <XFaCE> but don't you need a more powerful one than the runofthemill cellphone chargers?
Aug 01 21:45:12 <Wmickael> How I can run PWM on BBB with Debian Wheezy? I try that but don't work http://elinux.org/EBC_Exercise_13_Pulse_Width_Modulation
Aug 01 21:45:14 <flufmnstr> sure. find one that is just a 120v to usb and plug the cable in.
Aug 01 21:45:47 <flufmnstr> and taht it has enough amps. but most modern chargers have atleast enough to run the BBB by itself
Aug 01 21:46:13 <XFaCE> hmm
Aug 01 21:46:20 <XFaCE> the HTC one I have is a mere 1.0A
Aug 01 21:46:25 <XFaCE> just enough
Aug 01 21:46:30 <XFaCE> in otherwords
Aug 01 21:46:35 <XFaCE> USB hub adaptor it is
Aug 01 21:46:44 * XFaCE does a final sanity check
Aug 01 21:46:56 <XFaCE> 5V - check
Aug 01 21:47:02 <XFaCE> more than 1.0A - check
Aug 01 21:47:08 <XFaCE> - -----------C----------- +
Aug 01 21:47:09 <XFaCE> check
Aug 01 21:47:19 <XFaCE> 'wait
Aug 01 21:47:31 <XFaCE> flufmnstr: what does "for ITE use only" mean?
Aug 01 21:48:02 <XFaCE> oh
Aug 01 21:48:06 <XFaCE> standards blah blah
Aug 01 21:48:07 <flufmnstr> no idea. probalby some 'dont use our stuff on competators equipment' rhettoric the manufacturer put on.
Aug 01 21:48:09 <XFaCE> never mind
Aug 01 21:48:25 <XFaCE> flufmnstr: yeah
Aug 01 21:48:27 <XFaCE> "information technology equipment."
Aug 01 21:48:32 <XFaCE> well, the BBB qualifies :D
Aug 01 21:48:39 <flufmnstr> indeed. :)
Aug 01 21:48:50 <XFaCE> Oh no!
Aug 01 21:48:57 <flufmnstr> 'sploded?
Aug 01 21:48:58 <XFaCE> It's not CSE certified
Aug 01 21:49:02 <XFaCE> only UL
Aug 01 21:49:03 <XFaCE> lol
Aug 01 21:49:05 <flufmnstr> lol
Aug 01 21:49:16 <flufmnstr> UL is good enough
Aug 01 21:49:23 <flufmnstr> at least it wont burn your house down
Aug 01 21:49:42 <XFaCE> well, considering it was paired with the dlink hub for years, I would think so
Aug 01 21:49:55 <flufmnstr> oh no! dlink!
Aug 01 21:49:58 <flufmnstr> lol
Aug 01 21:50:15 * flufmnstr has issues with dlink, and their stupid broken routers
Aug 01 21:50:30 <flufmnstr> power supply has nothing to do with that though
Aug 01 21:50:35 <XFaCE> here goes
Aug 01 21:51:00 <XFaCE> btw, is is better to go Device->Wall, or Wall->Device?
Aug 01 21:51:08 <XFaCE> flufmnstr: I assume there's no difference
Aug 01 21:51:36 <flufmnstr> sure theres a difference. though i dont think it matters. unless you're anal about clean power
Aug 01 21:51:50 <XFaCE> heh, anal is a funny word to use here
Aug 01 21:51:56 <XFaCE> here goes
Aug 01 21:52:12 <flufmnstr> personally i always go wall -> device so the converter circuits are ready to go. dont have to worry about funny voltage levels
Aug 01 21:52:24 <flufmnstr> granted they only last for a fraction of a second, but still
Aug 01 21:53:02 <flufmnstr> but its not a rule. i do it the other way too if it happens to be more conveniant
Aug 01 21:53:14 <XFaCE> we are a go
Aug 01 21:53:19 <XFaCE> no problems as of yet
Aug 01 21:53:20 <flufmnstr> woot!
Aug 01 21:53:38 <XFaCE> flufmnstr: how fast should the "heartbeat" LED be going?
Aug 01 21:54:29 <XFaCE> flufmnstr: and finally, I assume it's ok to plug the USB and the AC adaptor at the same time
Aug 01 21:54:39 <flufmnstr> im no BBB expert. jsut another schmuck fumbeling through things. but its about once a second on my debian install.
Aug 01 21:55:01 <XFaCE> yep, that's that
Aug 01 21:55:46 <flufmnstr> XFaCE as far as i know, the host adaptor(normal plug) is fine, im not sure about the client port(miniUSB)
Aug 01 21:56:15 <XFaCE> "6.1.4  Power Selection
Aug 01 21:56:16 <XFaCE> The selection of either the 5VDC or the USB as the power source is handled internally to
Aug 01 21:56:16 <XFaCE> the TPS65217C and automatically switches to 5VDC power if both are connected."
Aug 01 21:56:33 <XFaCE> ok, but I assume that all the USB connectivity properties are intact
Aug 01 21:56:39 <XFaCE> one way to find out :P
Aug 01 21:57:03 <XFaCE> huzzah!
Aug 01 21:57:11 <XFaCE> flufmnstr: Did I mention this this is fawesome?
Aug 01 21:57:14 <flufmnstr> yeah sounds like it isolates them, go for it.
Aug 01 21:57:42 <XFaCE> flufmnstr: I have a homemade case for it BTW
Aug 01 21:58:10 <flufmnstr> nice
Aug 01 21:58:28 <XFaCE> masonite, wood, and plastic for a CD case XD
Aug 01 21:58:47 <XFaCE> flufmnstr: open-ended on both connector sides
Aug 01 21:59:21 <XFaCE> okay, now to the SD card setupi
Aug 01 21:59:22 <XFaCE> woot
Aug 01 22:01:01 <XFaCE> is there an official BBB pictures site?
Aug 01 22:03:24 <XFaCE> flufmnstr: debian eh?
Aug 01 22:03:32 <XFaCE> I was thinking Arch Linux
Aug 01 22:08:39 <Wmickael> How I can run PWM on BBB with Debian Wheezy? I try that but don't work http://elinux.org/EBC_Exercise_13_Pulse_Width_Modulation
Aug 01 22:35:48 <Amewa> hey looking into buying a Beagle bone black to use a Media box I was wondering about its video playable capablitys
Aug 01 22:36:21 <Amewa> like how does it handle 1080P with DTS and what distro is recommended for getting hardware acceleration running
Aug 01 22:36:27 <mru> it doesn't
Aug 01 22:36:37 <mru> it's not a media device
Aug 01 22:37:34 <Amewa> ofc its not out of the box I know that
Aug 01 22:37:45 <mru> it's not ever
Aug 01 22:39:16 <Amewa> sooo why do people run XMBC on it
Aug 01 22:39:26 <mru> 90% of people are idiots
Aug 01 22:39:34 * Amewa isn't asking what its intended for hes asking what it can do if you are willing to make it
Aug 01 22:40:19 <Amewa> either that or ill find a another sub $100.00 OpenBoard with a ARM chip
Aug 01 22:40:45 <Amewa> people are pulling it off with the pi and thats more underpowered then the beagle account to the spec sheets
Aug 01 22:40:49 <mru> what are your requirements?
Aug 01 22:41:00 <mru> the rpi has a _huge_ gpu/video processor
Aug 01 22:41:05 <mru> that's all it is
Aug 01 22:41:16 <Amewa> yea well if kind of like the best of both
Aug 01 22:41:38 <mru> in fact, the soc they use is just a test/demo chip for the videocore processor
Aug 01 22:41:47 <mru> the arm core is just incidental
Aug 01 22:41:48 <Russ> A8+Video Core would be DM37x, beagleboard xm
Aug 01 22:41:58 <mru> not really
Aug 01 22:41:59 <Amewa> decent enough cpu so my mom can flip though spacebook or twitter  and enough video power to decode 1080p
Aug 01 22:42:12 <mru> cubieboard maybe
Aug 01 22:42:15 <Russ> its not the cpu that decodes 1080p...on any platform
Aug 01 22:42:22 <Amewa> I know that
Aug 01 22:42:23 <mru> on my pc it is
Aug 01 22:42:26 <Amewa> ffs
Aug 01 22:42:42 <XFaCE> yeah, quick other question
Aug 01 22:42:45 <mru> the bone doesn't have video hardware
Aug 01 22:42:50 <mru> end of story
Aug 01 22:43:02 <mru> the xm has a little more support for video
Aug 01 22:43:03 <XFaCE> where is it listed the current version of Angstrom on the BBB?
Aug 01 22:43:17 <XFaCE> So I know whether or not I need to update it
Aug 01 22:43:20 <Wmickael> Nobody uses Ubuntu or Debian on BBB?
Aug 01 22:43:21 <mru> xm can do 720p without trouble
Aug 01 22:43:45 <Russ> time for the k2beagle?
Aug 01 22:44:45 <Vaizki> amewa, cubieboard2 or marsboard maybe your best bet for <100 USD capable media center
Aug 01 22:44:57 <Vaizki> not sure about the Mali400 driver situation
Aug 01 22:45:50 <Amewa> yea
Aug 01 22:46:02 <Amewa> Iv tried boards with mali400's
Aug 01 22:46:07 <Amewa> thats what I looked at first
Aug 01 22:46:16 <Vaizki> mele 1000 etc?
Aug 01 22:46:41 <Amewa> yea but I -REALLY- don't wanna spend more then 100 after all is said and done
Aug 01 22:46:50 <Amewa> if I am gonna spend that I might as well buy a boxxe
Aug 01 22:46:58 * Amewa shudders at that thought
Aug 01 22:47:06 <mru> cheap chinese android tablet
Aug 01 22:47:35 <Amewa> that would be the cubieboard
Aug 01 22:47:36 <Amewa> >_>
Aug 01 22:48:06 <Vaizki> well cubieboard 2 cost me
Aug 01 22:48:15 <Vaizki> hmm.. like 55 or so?
Aug 01 22:48:26 <Amewa> it would be 60 for me
Aug 01 22:48:26 <Vaizki> marsboard A20 is 58 usd
Aug 01 22:48:34 <Vaizki> free shipping
Aug 01 22:48:36 <Amewa> but theres that whole Mali400 situation
Aug 01 22:48:39 <Amewa> or did they get that sorted
Aug 01 22:48:56 <Amewa> last time I tried it(last year) it was pretty unuseable
Aug 01 22:49:07 <Vaizki> I have no idea. I have never hooked up any of my boards to a display
Aug 01 22:49:12 <Amewa> ......
Aug 01 22:49:28 <Amewa> looks nice enough on paper
Aug 01 22:49:57 * Amewa was kind of hoping to use GPIO to run the rest of his system so all anyone needs todo is turn the box on and everything else comes on
Aug 01 22:50:32 <Amewa> I got a bunch of relays el cheap that  are sitting collecting dust
Aug 01 22:50:48 <Russ> Amewa, you get bonus points if you wire up CEC instead
Aug 01 22:51:07 <Amewa> CEC ?
Aug 01 22:51:18 * Amewa can barely manage to get GPIO figured out
Aug 01 22:51:20 <Vaizki> consumer electronics control
Aug 01 22:51:30 <Vaizki> command tv over hdmi etc
Aug 01 22:51:39 <Amewa> whats HDMI
Aug 01 22:51:44 * Amewa is still using RCA
Aug 01 22:51:47 <Amewa> jk
Aug 01 22:51:57 <Amewa> no my main amp is a tube amp
Aug 01 22:51:59 <Amewa> no hdmi
Aug 01 22:52:02 <Amewa> everything else is
Aug 01 22:56:31 <Vaizki> and your relays have a high enough amp rating to switch those loads?
Aug 01 22:57:44 <Amewa> there rated for 20A
Aug 01 22:57:54 <Amewa> wall is only wired for 15
Aug 01 22:57:56 <Amewa> should be np
Aug 01 22:59:30 <Amewa> well two relays in series
Aug 01 22:59:41 <Amewa> relay A is driven from the board and that drives Relay B
Aug 01 22:59:55 <fzombie> I happily flashed ubuntu onto my beaglebone black tried to apt-get install xfce4 and ran out of room =)
Aug 01 23:00:00 <fzombie> we learn from our mistakes
Aug 01 23:00:17 <fzombie> when I tried to re-flash I noticed it doesn't nuke the previous install
Aug 01 23:00:23 <mru> bloated software is bloated
Aug 01 23:00:32 <fzombie> I tried debian first but there was a bug
Aug 01 23:01:11 <fzombie> anyways short of using the 2gb angstrom img is there another easy way to clear the emmc so I can flash it again?
Aug 01 23:01:54 * Amewa wonders why fzombie  ran out of space xfce4 isn't that big
Aug 01 23:02:17 <fzombie> because its ubuntu or beccause whenever i tried flashing something i guess it never actually removed the old files?
Aug 01 23:02:27 <Amewa> mistake one
Aug 01 23:02:33 <Amewa> using Ubuntu
Aug 01 23:02:35 <Amewa> ;>
Aug 01 23:02:43 <Vaizki> just remove the partitions from the emmc?
Aug 01 23:02:43 <fzombie> just was trying the waters
Aug 01 23:03:06 <fzombie> I just didn't know if I'd break it if I nuked the partitions
Aug 01 23:03:06 <Amewa> why not debian -stable
Aug 01 23:03:18 <fzombie> some other devices I've used do that
Aug 01 23:03:21 <Amewa> *should't*
Aug 01 23:03:23 <Vaizki> fzombie: it's a block device like any other
Aug 01 23:03:26 <fzombie> well... i started on debian stable
Aug 01 23:03:29 <Amewa> but I am no expert on flash
Aug 01 23:03:33 <fzombie> thought a bug was causing a problem
Aug 01 23:03:52 <fzombie> I think my wifi adpater is actually the problem
Aug 01 23:04:00 <fzombie> it blue-screened my windows computer when I plugged it in
Aug 01 23:04:14 <Vaizki> I bought 4 of these, http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/400380577232?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649
Aug 01 23:04:23 <Vaizki> don't have them yet.. but I like SSRs over relays
Aug 01 23:04:33 <fzombie> ill be back to debian soon, I just figured I'd try ubuntu since I've been on debian for years and people talk well of it.
Aug 01 23:04:35 <Vaizki> they are probably fake, too cheap ;)
Aug 01 23:04:48 <Vaizki> but I'll check them when they arrive
Aug 01 23:05:02 <Vaizki> anyway now sleep&
Aug 01 23:05:30 <Amewa> physical short in the usb adapter would do that
Aug 01 23:05:39 <Amewa> would also likely burnout the usb chip on the board
Aug 01 23:05:55 <Amewa> unless the BBB has resetable fuses(does it )
Aug 01 23:06:36 <Vaizki> for usb? no
Aug 01 23:06:43 <Vaizki> but the PMIC has over current protection I guess
Aug 01 23:07:39 <Vaizki> and there is no usb chip, it's all on the SoC
Aug 01 23:09:13 <Vaizki> anyway, the sleep
Aug 01 23:10:30 <vvu> anyone here with experience with gadgetFS and how it works ?
Aug 01 23:12:51 <fzombie> I think im just going to run debian booting off a 32gb card
Aug 01 23:16:08 <Damniel> Hello.
Aug 01 23:16:21 <fzombie> howdy
Aug 01 23:16:52 <Damniel> Somebody knew if is posible to use the beagleboard with 720p h264 streaming?
Aug 01 23:18:42 <prpplague> Damniel: yes very possible
Aug 01 23:19:30 <Damniel> I'm using TICodecPlugin h264 but the max it's capable of is 640x480.
Aug 01 23:19:55 <Damniel> prpplague: Do you know how to do it?
Aug 01 23:20:08 <mru> on the xm any decent neon decoder can do it
Aug 01 23:20:38 <Damniel> mru: But this case is about encode-
Aug 01 23:20:43 <prpplague> Damniel: no but there a bunch of howto pages posted
Aug 01 23:20:53 <mru> Damniel: you should've said that to begin with
Aug 01 23:21:04 <mru> don't expect to encode 720p on a beagle
Aug 01 23:23:07 <Damniel> mru: Is it posible with another board?
Aug 01 23:23:27 <mru> one with a hardware encoder
Aug 01 23:24:14 <Damniel> T_T Damn.
Aug 01 23:42:03 <Wmickael> Hello! How I can run PWM on BBB with Debian Wheezy? I try that but don't work http://elinux.org/EBC_Exercise_13_Pulse_Width_Modulation
Aug 01 23:43:10 <prpplague> Wmickael: pretty much all the example stuff is going to be based on Angstrom
Aug 01 23:45:40 <Wmickael> yes, but I need to run PWM on debian (but it works on angstrom I have tested)
Aug 01 23:45:57 <Wmickael> (sorry for my bad english :s )
Aug 01 23:57:40 <tei> Can someone recommend an evaluation board with a built-in, high speed A/D converter?
Aug 02 00:02:21 <m_billybob> tei perhaps the picolo C2000
Aug 02 00:02:37 <m_billybob> check it out I believe it does have high speed ADC and PWM as well
Aug 02 00:03:18 <tei> Excellent!  I am kind of new to design but can these things sample up to 200Mhz?
Aug 02 00:04:01 <SpeedEvil> Define high speed
Aug 02 00:04:04 <SpeedEvil> Oh
Aug 02 00:04:13 <SpeedEvil> Right - you have fundamental problems.
Aug 02 00:04:30 <SpeedEvil> Very few platforms can handle 200mbytes/s over available interfaces.
Aug 02 00:04:40 <SpeedEvil> Essentially nothing will be able to do it stock.
Aug 02 00:04:47 <SpeedEvil> What are you attempting to do?
Aug 02 00:04:54 <SpeedEvil> And what bit width.
Aug 02 00:13:14 <tei> We are attempting to measure the output of an avalanche photodiode
Aug 02 00:13:56 <tei> I found this document on the TI website: http://www.ti.com/lit/an/slaa545/slaa545.pdf
Aug 02 00:14:04 <tei> Do you think it will suffice?
Aug 02 00:16:44 <SpeedEvil> Why.
Aug 02 00:16:59 <SpeedEvil> What are you trying to measure - do you actually need 200MHz.
Aug 02 00:17:44 <SpeedEvil> That is a device talking about FPGAs.
Aug 02 00:18:11 <SpeedEvil> Yes, you can hook fast ADCs to FPGAs. That's not a real issue.
Aug 02 00:18:25 <SpeedEvil> That is an application note, rather
Aug 02 00:18:51 <SpeedEvil> What are you actually wanting to do?
Aug 02 00:35:43 <m_billybob> moo
Aug 02 00:35:59 <m_billybob> Whats everyone up to this evening
Aug 02 00:40:22 <m_billybob> That much eh
Aug 02 01:36:27 <fzombie> A watched beaglebone never flshes
Aug 02 01:41:35 <mrpackethead> ha ha
Aug 02 01:43:43 <ostrichbones> I got kinda a big issue :(
Aug 02 01:44:48 <ostrichbones> i cannot find a way to be root user of my linux system
Aug 02 01:45:01 <ostrichbones> and I cannot boot into single user mode to reset a password I never made to begin with wtf!
Aug 02 01:50:35 <ostrichbones> any help out there?
Aug 02 01:51:36 <ostrichbones> i really need some helping finding out how to be root
Aug 02 01:51:52 <ostrichbones> I never set a password but it refuses to allow me to use it and I can't do anything on my system now
Aug 02 01:55:52 <mrpackethead> su -
Aug 02 01:56:30 <mrpackethead> ostrichbones: what distro are you using
Aug 02 01:56:35 <mrpackethead> the one that was supplied
Aug 02 01:56:42 <ostrichbones> no I'm using Fedora 19
Aug 02 01:56:55 <ostrichbones> I need to install some packages and what not
Aug 02 01:56:55 <mrpackethead> well, then your on your own i suspect
Aug 02 01:57:18 <ostrichbones> and unfortunately i either made a password I can't remember, or accidently either way
Aug 02 01:57:19 <mrpackethead> i thought you said it was working very well
Aug 02 01:57:35 <ostrichbones> everythings up and working great except I have no control of my system :(
Aug 02 01:57:43 <ostrichbones> and I can't boot into the grub menu for some reason
Aug 02 01:57:55 <mrpackethead> grub on a bbb?
Aug 02 01:58:02 <ostrichbones> yeah
Aug 02 02:08:32 <mrpackethead> mranostay: https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/1017268_10151770849282661_831338086_n.jpg
Aug 02 02:08:40 <mrpackethead> there you go. its done and it works
Aug 02 02:09:06 <fzombie> should I be worried if my beaglebone black has been flashing for longer than an hour and twenty minutes without going all solid lights?
Aug 02 02:10:45 <mranostay> froggyman: try again
Aug 02 02:12:58 <ostrichbones> I think I got it!
Aug 02 02:16:33 <froggyman> mranostay, huh?
Aug 02 02:17:26 <mranostay> er fzombie
Aug 02 02:17:36 <mranostay> froggyman: tab complete fail
Aug 02 02:27:59 <ostrichbones> how do I boot into single user mode?
Aug 02 02:28:04 <ostrichbones> I can't figure this shit out for the life of me
Aug 02 02:35:13 <ostrichbones> anyone using fedora?
Aug 02 02:35:25 <ostrichbones> serious questions here for an experienced user
Aug 02 02:40:47 <brickrisk> Have a beaglebone black that I'm trying to get to boot strange the kernel loads and half way through I lose the output...via the FTDI here is the output http://pastebin.com/pjpGPnth
Aug 02 02:41:41 <brickrisk> I still have a flashing LED on the board tho
Aug 02 02:53:35 <ostrichbones> what's it mean when all the lights on your beagle bone stay lit on boot up
Aug 02 02:53:40 <ostrichbones> and don't turn off and nothing happens?
Aug 02 02:54:24 <brickrisk> You most likely have something wrong with your SD-card
Aug 02 02:55:36 <brickrisk> you can get the 3.3v FTDI cable to see what is preventing it from booting
Aug 02 02:55:38 <ostrichbones> I just repartitioned it...so probably why
Aug 02 02:56:58 <ostrichbones> how do you delete something off a microSD card so you can actually write to it?
Aug 02 02:57:11 <ostrichbones> says it can't write over it because it's write protected...
Aug 02 02:57:31 <brickrisk> are you using an adapter
Aug 02 02:58:15 <ostrichbones> yes everything is saying the disk is write protected
Aug 02 02:58:40 <brickrisk> make sure the adapter is not in the lock position
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Fri Aug 02 02:59:59 2013