**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Aug 06 02:59:58 2013
Aug 06 03:25:30 <m_billybob> no dice eith usb_ether from uboot yet
Aug 06 03:25:41 <m_billybob> with*
Aug 06 03:26:15 <m_billybob> get the typical round robin search, 5-6 times, then halt
Aug 06 03:34:19 <pru_evtout_2> prplague: that doesn't make sense to me. why not include an overlay for one of the completely functional buses?
Aug 06 03:51:08 <prpplague> pru_evtout_2: because if you need it you should be able to make one yourself
Aug 06 03:51:21 <prpplague> pru_evtout_2: the arguement is that we can't include every possible combination
Aug 06 03:52:00 <prpplague> pru_evtout_2: but it is just one of the items i am trying to work on for a better image for hacking on the black
Aug 06 03:53:16 <pru_evtout_2> ...and one of the three i2c buses isn't exactly every combination :P
Aug 06 03:53:43 <pru_evtout_2> i think every combination should be a goal, obviously.
Aug 06 03:54:05 <pru_evtout_2> and, i2c-1 dts is actually i2c-1
Aug 06 03:54:44 <pru_evtout_2> so, i'm happy :D
Aug 06 03:55:50 <pru_evtout_2> had me confused because there are so many different names for each.
Aug 06 03:59:47 <prpplague> pru_evtout_2: every combination is all the pinmux for those pins in combination with all the other pin mux options
Aug 06 04:00:30 <prpplague> pru_evtout_2: (i understand what you are saying) but it isn't that simple
Aug 06 04:02:00 <pru_evtout_2> wha? I thought that's what overlays were for?
Aug 06 04:02:39 <pru_evtout_2> can't i have an i2c overlay that fights with a gpio overlay for the same pins?
Aug 06 04:02:54 <pru_evtout_2> only one able to load at once, but still completely separate overlays?
Aug 06 04:03:37 <pru_evtout_2> ohh, you mean like highz for some mux mode?
Aug 06 04:03:37 <prpplague> pru_evtout_2: the point everyone wants "their configuration"
Aug 06 04:03:53 <prpplague> pru_evtout_2: and for us to do one for everyone would be a pile of overlays and a lot of time
Aug 06 04:03:54 <pru_evtout_2> is it really impossible to do arbitrary runtime configurations with device tree???
Aug 06 04:04:27 <pru_evtout_2> how about a collection of fragments and some poitn and click checkbox tool?
Aug 06 04:04:44 <prpplague> pru_evtout_2: indeed, that is something i am reviewing
Aug 06 04:04:51 <pru_evtout_2> nice!
Aug 06 04:05:27 <pru_evtout_2> something like that will be great.
Aug 06 04:05:46 <m_billybob> ?
Aug 06 04:06:01 <m_billybob> apparently i was disconnected for the last 40 minutes or so
Aug 06 04:28:37 <mrpackethead> 169 airwires to go
Aug 06 04:36:04 <william-BBB> mooo
Aug 06 04:37:08 <m_billybob> moo
Aug 06 04:41:45 * mranostay hurls yoctopuses in the channel
Aug 06 04:53:30 <mrpackethead> mranostay: gah
Aug 06 05:00:18 <panto> mourning
Aug 06 05:00:33 <m_billybob> Hi panto
Aug 06 05:01:56 <panto> hi
Aug 06 05:02:18 <m_billybob> HOw are things ?
Aug 06 05:02:54 <panto> meh
Aug 06 05:03:42 <m_billybob> that good eh ?
Aug 06 06:27:58 <panto> https://github.com/pantoniou/linux-beagle-track-mainline/commit/fb07a95ec9e3df0acbcb34a9a5afbd13b8592681
Aug 06 06:28:17 <panto> a lot of capes can now be removed with this fix
Aug 06 06:28:51 <Shadyman> yay
Aug 06 06:30:01 <av500> less capes is better?
Aug 06 06:30:18 <panto> http://pastebin.com/gJw9mtG5
Aug 06 06:30:24 <panto> 0 capes is optimal
Aug 06 06:30:34 <av500> remove them all!
Aug 06 06:30:42 <panto> rm -rf firmware/capes
Aug 06 06:31:22 <av500> +1
Aug 06 06:31:28 <av500> and DT while you are at it
Aug 06 06:31:43 <dm8tbr> only boradfiles?
Aug 06 06:31:56 <panto> boratfile.
Aug 06 06:31:57 <panto> boratfile.c
Aug 06 06:32:32 <panto> borat-generic.c for DT case
Aug 06 06:33:20 <panto> http://pastebin.com/wekFHRCU
Aug 06 06:33:33 <panto> there are still crap in the drivers that cause backtraces
Aug 06 06:34:28 <panto> and of course a lot of drivers never expected to cleanup properly: http://pastebin.com/BjS8GVJN
Aug 06 06:34:29 <av500> one does not simply remove a serial driver
Aug 06 06:34:47 <panto> av500, I don't, I remove the device
Aug 06 06:40:02 <Russ> all the DT kernels are based on a board file
Aug 06 06:40:04 <Russ> my life is a lie
Aug 06 06:40:16 <panto> heh
Aug 06 06:41:03 <panto> Russ, any objections in sending the patches in my pdev-fixes branch to linux-omap
Aug 06 06:41:10 <panto> so that they will be properly ignored
Aug 06 06:44:39 * Russ takes a look at the branch
Aug 06 06:45:30 <panto> https://github.com/pantoniou/linux-beagle-track-mainline/compare/pdev-fixes
Aug 06 06:56:08 <Russ> I assume github is lying about indendation
Aug 06 06:56:15 <panto> yes
Aug 06 06:57:27 <Russ> I might replace /* TODO: What about the other resources? */ with something about only handling IO and MEM resources and why IRQ resources aren't handled
Aug 06 06:59:05 <Russ> (and DMA)
Aug 06 07:01:16 <panto> k
Aug 06 07:10:53 <Russ> looks like a good series to me
Aug 06 07:17:52 <Vaizki> Rickta59: Thanks, that's useful!
Aug 06 07:35:10 <KotH> a wonder*yawn* JIHAD!
Aug 06 07:35:20 <woglinde> hi koth
Aug 06 07:35:56 <KotH> hoi woglinde
Aug 06 07:36:02 <KotH> gohts guet? :)
Aug 06 07:44:59 <das> interesting, I thought eglibc would have had better performance than uclibc : http://graphitemaster.github.io/ccaprice/table.html
Aug 06 07:45:36 <panto> das, why would you think that?
Aug 06 07:45:53 <das> I took a quick peek at the code, notably in string/
Aug 06 07:46:43 <das> for example strlen's algorithm in eglibc is very elegant, whereas uclibc has the naive implementation, I did expect a times 4 difference there
Aug 06 07:47:04 <panto> a lot of the string handling functions are implemented by gcc nowadays
Aug 06 07:47:26 <panto> so the easy cases are inlined by gcc
Aug 06 07:47:30 <KotH> also, size makes things slower
Aug 06 07:47:36 <panto> having a smaller footprint helps too
Aug 06 07:47:37 <panto> KotH, +1
Aug 06 07:47:48 <KotH> moin panto
Aug 06 07:48:09 <panto> just because you use a whiz-bang algorithm, you might lose if you blow your cache
Aug 06 07:48:19 <das> maybe you need big data sets to truly see eglibc shine
Aug 06 07:48:28 <das> panto: true that
Aug 06 07:49:08 <KotH> das: not necessarily
Aug 06 07:49:49 <KotH> academics think that everything that matters for algo speed is O(), while it has very little to do with actual execution speed
Aug 06 07:49:51 <av500> I shall waste my day comparing strlen speeds today
Aug 06 07:49:52 <das> what's the point of cutsie algorithms if they perform poorly against the naive implementation then ?
Aug 06 07:50:07 <das> av500: you too ?
Aug 06 07:50:10 <KotH> av500: please write a blog post about it!
Aug 06 07:50:13 <KotH> :)
Aug 06 07:50:23 <panto> in fact optimization nowadays is mostly about data movement
Aug 06 07:50:24 <av500> let me call moronix
Aug 06 07:50:29 <KotH> das: you can write a paper about how much better O() you have
Aug 06 07:50:33 <av500> to get it viral
Aug 06 07:50:37 <panto> KotH, +1
Aug 06 07:50:56 <panto> mru can probably have a more detailed explanation
Aug 06 07:51:20 <KotH> mru can sure give a more detailed rant
Aug 06 07:52:30 <KotH> mru: you shouldnt edit history! even if it's to troll me! ;-)
Aug 06 07:53:42 <panto> ok, sending patchset
Aug 06 08:08:25 <jzaw> morning
Aug 06 08:08:40 <jzaw> can anyone confirm does the BBB have a hardware rng ?
Aug 06 08:09:12 <RypRap> rng?
Aug 06 08:09:37 <SpeedEvil> Random Number Generator
Aug 06 08:09:49 <Russ> twas not to be
Aug 06 08:10:11 <Russ> er, wait
Aug 06 08:10:16 <Russ> I think it my be in there
Aug 06 08:10:25 <jzaw> accessible ?
Aug 06 08:10:42 <Russ> http://processors.wiki.ti.com/index.php/Cryptography_Users_Guide#Using_Cryptographic_Hardware_Accelerators
Aug 06 08:10:50 <panto> yes there is
Aug 06 08:11:29 <Russ> why did it get left out of the trm?
Aug 06 08:11:47 <av500> its called AD converter
Aug 06 08:11:51 <panto> but there's no driver IIRC
Aug 06 08:11:54 <jzaw> oooh Russ that looks promising
Aug 06 08:12:16 <Russ> the wiki claims that at one time, the omap4 trng driver worked, which makes a bit of sense
Aug 06 08:12:27 <SpeedEvil> Russ: Various devices that are in principle on-die may not work, and may be removed from TRMs for specific parts.
Aug 06 08:12:35 <KotH> hmm... should i be worried if i read "we did X to acheive Y" in an internal design document, while X and Y are not related to each other at all?
Aug 06 08:12:59 <SpeedEvil> Russ: For example - the omap3630 had a on-die temperature sensor. It only worked on some parts - and got pulled from the TRM
Aug 06 08:13:28 <Russ> https://github.com/Angstrom-distribution/meta-ti/blob/master/recipes-kernel/linux/linux-am335x-3.2.0-psp04.06.00.08/0006-am33x-Create-driver-for-TRNG-crypto-module.patch
Aug 06 08:13:54 <cde> do we have a temperature sensor on the am335x? it would be very useful for my overclocking project
Aug 06 08:14:14 <Russ> cde, there is a bandgap, but no calibration values are provided, so you'd need to do that
Aug 06 08:14:33 <Russ> it connects up to the adc
Aug 06 08:14:45 <jzaw> Russ, i think the BBB has become my new BF
Aug 06 08:14:48 <Russ> see: bandgap_ctrl bandgap_trim in the trm
Aug 06 08:15:14 <cde> thanks Russ. I guess calibration is no big deal. it is documented in the trm?
Aug 06 08:15:32 <panto> there is a hw rng driver in 3.11
Aug 06 08:15:46 <panto> no DT bindings though
Aug 06 08:15:50 <panto> typical
Aug 06 08:18:16 <Russ> cde, you might have to do some experimentation
Aug 06 08:18:52 <av500> buy 1k units and characterise them :)
Aug 06 08:19:08 <Russ> av500, I mean in figuring out how to get the tsadc to give you readings
Aug 06 08:20:52 <Russ> actually, it looks like it doesn't connect to the tsadc
Aug 06 08:21:02 <Russ> you read the value straight out of bandgap_ctrl.dtemp
Aug 06 08:21:32 <Russ> (after properly programming bandgap_trim)
Aug 06 08:25:31 <KotH> .o0(damn cargo culting people!)
Aug 06 08:25:47 <cde> yes, that's what I was looking for in the trm.
Aug 06 08:26:02 <cde> not very much documented though, but it's better than nothing
Aug 06 09:07:01 <cverster> hey guys! Anyone know of a good / full-proof tutorial to get the UART on the beaglebone black working for Angstrom?
Aug 06 09:07:45 <Vaizki> cverster: which uart? I think all you need is a DT overlay
Aug 06 09:08:17 <cverster> ya, device tree overlay, I'm not too familiar with that. Well, eventually I will have to get all of them working
Aug 06 09:12:20 <Vaizki> cverster: I think newer Ångström builds have ready made virtual cape definitions in /lib/firmware
Aug 06 09:13:30 <cverster> I think I need to get one, because my build doesn't even have a /lib/firmware directory
Aug 06 09:14:36 <Vaizki> eh..
Aug 06 09:15:24 <cverster> oh wait it does, where can I read up on this?
Aug 06 09:15:51 <Vaizki> do you have files like BB-UART2-00A0.dtbo there?
Aug 06 09:16:00 <cverster> yip
Aug 06 09:16:14 <cverster> BB-UART1-00A0.dtbo          cape-bone-dvi-00A1.dts            vicam
Aug 06 09:16:14 <cverster> BB-UART1-00A0.dts           cape-bone-dvi-00A2.dtbo           whiteheat.fw
Aug 06 09:16:14 <cverster> BB-UART2-00A0.dtbo          cape-bone-dvi-00A2.dts            whiteheat_loader.fw
Aug 06 09:16:14 <cverster> BB-UART2-00A0.dts           cape-bone-exptest-00A0.dtbo       yam
Aug 06 09:16:14 <cverster> BB-UART4-00A0.dtbo          cape-bone-exptest-00A0.dts        yamaha
Aug 06 09:16:15 <cverster> BB-UART4-00A0.dts           cape-bone-geiger-00A0.dtbo
Aug 06 09:16:15 <cverster> BB-UART5-00A0.dtbo
Aug 06 09:16:38 <cverster> sorry I'm probably not allowed to post like that!
Aug 06 09:16:42 <Vaizki> well read here for example: http://blog.pignology.net/2013/05/getting-uart2-devttyo1-working-on.html
Aug 06 09:17:20 <Vaizki> you can also activate it without boot via sysfs
Aug 06 09:17:20 <cverster> ya I found that and am running through it, having some trouble with implementing though, thanks!
Aug 06 09:17:26 <cverster> sysfs?
Aug 06 09:18:57 <KotH> ALL HAIL SYSFS!
Aug 06 09:19:37 <Vaizki> cverster: like this: echo BB-UART4 > /sys/devices/bone_capemgr.8/slots
Aug 06 09:19:54 <Vaizki> your bone_capemanager might be .9 or something else
Aug 06 09:20:05 <Vaizki> don't ask me why, I haven't bothered to find out
Aug 06 09:20:34 <Vaizki> then if you do: cat /sys/devices/bone_capemgr.8/slots
Aug 06 09:21:01 <Vaizki> you will see which capes are active, including the UART4 you just loaded..
Aug 06 09:21:50 <cverster> I did the echo command
Aug 06 09:21:59 <cverster> but when I do cat, I get the following
Aug 06 09:22:23 <cverster> oh nvm its there, so now its active and I can use it?
Aug 06 09:22:25 <Vaizki> you should see something like: 10: ff:P-O-L Override Board Name,00A0,Override Manuf,BB-UART4
Aug 06 09:22:53 <cverster> ya its there :)! now I can use it?
Aug 06 09:23:02 <Vaizki> and dmesg / journalctl should show something like:
Aug 06 09:23:03 <Vaizki> [26731.802869] bone-capemgr bone_capemgr.8: slot #10: dtbo 'BB-UART4-00A0.dtbo' loaded; converting to live tree
Aug 06 09:23:09 <Vaizki> and [26731.811271] 481a8000.serial: ttyO4 at MMIO 0x481a8000 (irq = 61) is a OMAP UART4
Aug 06 09:23:17 <Vaizki> so now you have /dev/ttyO4
Aug 06 09:23:32 <Vaizki> ta-daa
Aug 06 09:24:10 <cverster> shot!
Aug 06 09:24:43 <Vaizki> easier to test this way than constant rebooting
Aug 06 09:24:57 <Vaizki> but you want to put them into uEnv.txt later
Aug 06 09:25:54 <Vaizki> and if you want to remove the virtual UART cape, just: echo -10 > /sys/devices/bone_capemgr.8/slots
Aug 06 09:26:00 <Vaizki> that will remove cape in slot 10
Aug 06 09:26:14 <cverster> does that mean they are activated at startup? if I put into uenv.txt
Aug 06 09:26:20 <Vaizki> yea
Aug 06 09:26:30 <cverster> sweet
Aug 06 09:26:30 <Vaizki> it tells the capemanager in the kernel to activate them at boot
Aug 06 09:27:15 <Vaizki> if you like self flagellation you might want to combine all the UARTs you need into a single .dts and compile a .dtbo for it
Aug 06 09:29:45 <cverster> thanks a lot! will figure out how that works too!
Aug 06 09:30:11 <Vaizki> or just load all the ones you need separately
Aug 06 09:30:26 <Vaizki> no difference in functionality
Aug 06 09:30:40 <cverster> ya, I'm gonna probably use all of them. Then I just use the UART like I would on any other device hey?
Aug 06 09:32:00 <Vaizki> yes just like a toaster for example. insert bread, press lever, twist knob, presto!
Aug 06 09:32:34 <cverster> now im hungry
Aug 06 09:32:48 <Vaizki> me too. you can send me food as thanks.
Aug 06 09:33:11 <cde> to insert food, press A
Aug 06 09:33:18 <cverster> all the way from south africa! I can send you some biltong, dried meat, we live off the stuff :D
Aug 06 09:33:39 <cverster> well I wish we did atleadt
Aug 06 09:34:50 <Vaizki> I love biltong
Aug 06 09:35:56 <Vaizki> and I'm all out!
Aug 06 09:36:06 <Vaizki> I was in SA hmm.. last october
Aug 06 09:36:16 <Vaizki> climbed table mountain, went to the cape etc
Aug 06 09:36:58 * biot would sell his soul for some biltong
Aug 06 09:37:07 <cverster> ya I live close to cape town
Aug 06 09:39:15 <panto> looks like I managed to disgust gregh
Aug 06 09:39:27 <av500> url
Aug 06 09:39:37 <Vaizki> again?
Aug 06 09:39:58 <dm8tbr> you didn't run the check patch scripts? ;)
Aug 06 09:41:32 <panto> no, no, it's that I always seem to uncover hidden horrors of linux kernel
Aug 06 09:43:24 <Vaizki> the suspense builds
Aug 06 09:43:42 <Vaizki> make: suspense too long; aborting
Aug 06 09:43:57 <panto> https://lkml.org/lkml/2013/8/6/123
Aug 06 09:44:13 <av500> yes
Aug 06 09:44:16 <av500> found it :)
Aug 06 09:44:20 <av500> you did it all wrong!
Aug 06 09:45:49 <panto> I did?
Aug 06 09:45:51 <panto> what did I do?
Aug 06 09:46:12 <Vaizki> whatever you did he doesn't like it. at all.
Aug 06 09:46:15 <Vaizki> tsk.
Aug 06 09:46:26 <panto> I'm a lkml troll
Aug 06 09:46:36 <panto> well, the funny thing is I didn't do it
Aug 06 09:46:49 <cde> didn't you did do it?
Aug 06 09:46:49 <panto> it was there, and it wasn't working
Aug 06 09:46:57 <panto> so I fixed it
Aug 06 09:46:59 <Vaizki> you fixed it so it doesn't crash but hey it's fundamentally wrong so it's better to leave it to rot and start a completely new framework from scratch
Aug 06 09:47:11 <panto> Vaizki, +1
Aug 06 09:47:29 <Vaizki> the linux way
Aug 06 09:47:33 <cde> Linux: not accepting patches from actual users since 1991
Aug 06 09:47:46 <Vaizki> "I don't like how this window manager looks, I'll write a new one from scratch"
Aug 06 09:48:17 <panto> now the big question is how did that ended up in there, and why people only find out it is crap after someone fixes it
Aug 06 09:48:43 <Vaizki> well I don't even know what that "device" is
Aug 06 09:48:52 <Vaizki> omap_device
Aug 06 09:49:27 <panto> I'm finding it increasingly hard to care
Aug 06 09:49:35 <Vaizki> awww..
Aug 06 09:50:51 <av500> panto: dont give up, you are our only hope Obi Pan
Aug 06 09:51:07 <panto> I'm also finding the suggestion to follow what ACPI people do hilarious
Aug 06 09:51:10 <panto> https://lkml.org/lkml/2013/8/6/120
Aug 06 09:51:13 <Vaizki> so he's basically saying you should split the thing into a generic bus implementation and devices?
Aug 06 09:51:13 <cde> to achieve Zen, you must let go
Aug 06 09:51:45 <av500> why is lkml.org unable to give me "First message in thread"?
Aug 06 09:51:58 <av500> hacked again?
Aug 06 09:52:08 <av500> website is hard, lets do kernel
Aug 06 09:52:31 <mrpacket_> whats a good way to clone sd-cards
Aug 06 09:52:32 <KotH> hehe
Aug 06 09:52:39 <av500> mrpacket_: dd
Aug 06 09:52:50 <mru> lkml.org shows some mystery selection of messages
Aug 06 09:52:50 <av500> mrpacket_: btw: http://www.nycresistor.com/2013/07/27/ledscape/
Aug 06 09:52:54 <KotH> mrpacket_: dd if=/first/sd/card of=/second/sd/card bs=102400
Aug 06 09:53:01 <mru> probably done by the same people that wrote the g+ sort algorithm
Aug 06 09:53:12 <mrpacket_> av500: thats old news
Aug 06 09:53:19 <av500> shame on me
Aug 06 09:53:26 <mrpacket_> 2811's are also horrible
Aug 06 09:53:27 <av500> unsee it then
Aug 06 09:54:19 <KotH> "The drawback to the BeagleBone is that the 3.3V signals won?t travel very far..." sounds like "i know electronics!!!!1!1!einself"
Aug 06 09:54:23 <woglinde> hiho av500
Aug 06 09:54:44 <mrpacket_> first thign is that you shoud'tn be driving a ws2811 with 3V3 singals
Aug 06 09:54:52 <woglinde> koth wireless
Aug 06 09:55:05 <mru> KotH: have you ever seen a 3.3V power line?
Aug 06 09:55:13 <mru> nope, they're all 400kV or so
Aug 06 09:55:17 <mrpacket_> 3kV
Aug 06 09:55:24 <mrpacket_> is common in NZ
Aug 06 09:55:33 <mrpacket_> but all being replaced with 15kV
Aug 06 09:55:46 <cde> those signals, they need to eat some cereal. that will make them stronger
Aug 06 09:55:54 <mrpacket_> they used to do intermediate distribution at 3kV
Aug 06 09:55:56 <woglinde> mrpackethead for electro-cars?
Aug 06 09:55:58 <mru> mrpacket_: that would only be local area
Aug 06 09:55:59 <Vaizki> what is wrong with ws2811?
Aug 06 09:56:08 <mru> no more than a couple of miles
Aug 06 09:56:09 <ynezz> comparing avr to omap isn't fair either!
Aug 06 09:56:16 <mrpacket_> low resolution
Aug 06 09:56:22 <KotH> mru: i've seen 0.5V powerlines :)
Aug 06 09:56:26 <av500> its only a single pixel
Aug 06 09:56:28 <mrpacket_> low sensible refresh rates
Aug 06 09:56:28 <ynezz> it's like comparing rpi with amiga1k2
Aug 06 09:56:32 <av500> awful resolution
Aug 06 09:56:38 <mru> amiga is more fun
Aug 06 09:56:42 <mru> it works as intended
Aug 06 09:56:44 <mrpacket_> av500: dimming resolution
Aug 06 09:56:48 <av500> i know :)
Aug 06 09:57:18 <cde> bouncing ball fetishists
Aug 06 09:57:36 <panto> hehe
Aug 06 09:57:40 <KotH> hey! bouncing balls are cool!
Aug 06 09:57:50 <cde> I was kidding. they are :)
Aug 06 09:59:01 <woglinde> hm this goldman-sachs story is really strange
Aug 06 09:59:18 <mru> is drepper involved?
Aug 06 09:59:26 <woglinde> no
Aug 06 09:59:33 <woglinde> only russians
Aug 06 09:59:40 <Russ> aluminum
Aug 06 09:59:44 <ynezz> uwe ampler?
Aug 06 10:00:17 <woglinde> hm and I wild guess he uploaded the source code to berlios
Aug 06 10:00:49 <KotH> what's with goldman-sachs?
Aug 06 10:01:02 * KotH skipped that part in the newspaper
Aug 06 10:01:02 <Russ> ah, you don't mean the aluminum thing
Aug 06 10:01:10 <ynezz> just doing bussiness
Aug 06 10:01:11 <Russ> http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/the-legal-jujitsu-of-goldman-sachs.aspx?pageID=449&nID=52067&NewsCatID=396
Aug 06 10:01:11 <Russ> ?
Aug 06 10:01:16 <mru> KotH: they're a huge bank doing stupid shit
Aug 06 10:01:18 <woglinde> koth uhm you do not read fefe or gpl-violations.org?
Aug 06 10:01:19 <mru> like huge banks do
Aug 06 10:01:51 <Russ> http://lists.gpl-violations.org/pipermail/legal/2013-August/004107.html
Aug 06 10:01:54 <woglinde> the russian guy getting 400k for patching there highfrequenzy trading stuff
Aug 06 10:02:14 <woglinde> and than uploading the sourcecode to a german free svn server
Aug 06 10:02:16 <KotH> woglinde: nope, i stopped reading conspirationist theories. i have enough of my own
Aug 06 10:02:18 * Russ skips forward to the luke.leighton
Aug 06 10:02:39 <woglinde> russ better read the story
Aug 06 10:03:08 <av500> woglinde: as usual, there are way to few facts
Aug 06 10:03:19 <av500> so discussing that on gpl violations is pointless
Aug 06 10:03:24 <mru> av500: good, then there's no confusion
Aug 06 10:03:43 <woglinde> av500 no, the guy did wrong
Aug 06 10:03:45 <KotH> oh.. license violations.. sounds fun
Aug 06 10:03:45 <woglinde> thats all
Aug 06 10:03:52 <woglinde> koth it isnt
Aug 06 10:04:01 <woglinde> its all inside goldmansachs
Aug 06 10:04:32 <mru> seems like gs hired a russian to make some changes to gpl code which were never distributed
Aug 06 10:04:38 <mru> the russian "stole" a copy of the code
Aug 06 10:04:41 <woglinde> mru yes
Aug 06 10:04:56 <cde> but why make opensource something evil like HFT, that doesn't make sense
Aug 06 10:04:58 <mru> gs sued for copyright infringement on the portions he'd added on their behalf
Aug 06 10:05:02 <mru> i.e. work for hire
Aug 06 10:05:09 <mru> so copyright belongs to gs
Aug 06 10:05:22 <woglinde> first he only knows svn, second he was so stupid to not put it in his contract to be able to contribute for opensource software
Aug 06 10:05:52 <av500> like gs would have accepted that
Aug 06 10:06:07 <woglinde> av500 lol they doubled his salary
Aug 06 10:06:16 <av500> ?
Aug 06 10:06:17 <woglinde> so he not goes to ubs
Aug 06 10:06:58 * Russ reminds himself to never delete is ~/.bash_history, only to ever overwrite it with something plausible
Aug 06 10:07:01 <KotH> all this talk about money makes me hungry
Aug 06 10:07:09 * KotH goes to hunt some dead animals
Aug 06 10:07:19 <av500> Russ: also never use green text on a dark screen
Aug 06 10:07:29 <av500> that makes you extra suspicious
Aug 06 10:07:33 <woglinde> anyway for me the whole story sounds like has some symptons of asperger
Aug 06 10:07:52 <woglinde> koth one doener for me
Aug 06 10:08:10 <KotH> woglinde: most engineers and scientists show signs of asperger, but that doesnt mean they are "sick" in the psychological sense
Aug 06 10:08:24 <KotH> woglinde: ack.. but you have to come and fetch it
Aug 06 10:08:25 <woglinde> koth what means sick and what not
Aug 06 10:08:27 <av500> I saw a sign of asparagus
Aug 06 10:08:42 <mru> av500: isn't that season over?
Aug 06 10:08:48 <av500> saw
Aug 06 10:08:51 <av500> = past tense
Aug 06 10:08:51 <woglinde> av500 fungus?
Aug 06 10:09:00 <KotH> woglinde: there is a medical definition for all kinds of illneses. having a couple of symptoms doesnt count as having the illness
Aug 06 10:09:11 <mru> av500: it must have been months ago, and you're only telling us _now_?
Aug 06 10:09:19 <das> KotH: are you talking about me  ? ARE YOU ???
Aug 06 10:09:21 <av500> I was scared
Aug 06 10:09:24 <mru> KotH: and they keep redefining it
Aug 06 10:09:37 <KotH> das: no. you are french, we dont need no doctor to know you are sick
Aug 06 10:09:47 <mru> the latest version of the DSM doesn't even have asperger any more
Aug 06 10:09:50 <das> KotH: sexual addicition is not a true sickness
Aug 06 10:10:00 <mru> that's the new fad, yes
Aug 06 10:10:11 <KotH> mru: ofc. lowering the barrier of illnesses creates more patients, more patients means more customers, means more money
Aug 06 10:10:26 <mru> das: probably to give that wiener guy fewer excuses
Aug 06 10:10:32 <mru> apt name btw
Aug 06 10:10:59 <das> mru: Strauss-Kahn you mean ?
Aug 06 10:10:59 <KotH> anyways... hunting time
Aug 06 10:11:07 <mru> no, Wiener
Aug 06 10:11:19 <av500> the guy with the bridge?
Aug 06 10:11:47 <mru> the US politician who sent dick pics to girls
Aug 06 10:12:13 <das> rofl
Aug 06 10:12:31 <das> didn't hear about this one
Aug 06 10:12:33 <mru> or maybe it was weiner, but who cares
Aug 06 10:12:45 <mru> merkins can't spell anyway
Aug 06 10:13:16 <mru> das: you obviously don't follow _any_ news from across the pond then
Aug 06 10:13:37 <das> mru: I don't have internet
Aug 06 10:13:52 <av500> only minitel
Aug 06 10:13:56 <mru> any hint of a "sex scandal" gets more attention than anything else over there
Aug 06 10:13:59 <av500> not uncommon over there
Aug 06 10:14:06 <das> av500: +1 for your culture
Aug 06 10:14:26 <das> but minitel has been shut off last year
Aug 06 10:14:34 <das> my grandma now has an android tablet
Aug 06 10:14:42 <Russ> I don't know if I'd call the wiener thing a "sex scandal"
Aug 06 10:14:49 <mru> they didn't shut it off until last year?
Aug 06 10:14:55 <Russ> more of a harassment thing
Aug 06 10:14:58 <mru> Russ: nor do I, but fox news certainly does
Aug 06 10:15:04 <cde> das: 3615 ctmieuxavant ;)
Aug 06 10:15:10 <das> nope; and they did get a lot of complaints when it was shut off
Aug 06 10:15:12 <av500> Russ: certain body parts involved -> automatic sex scandal
Aug 06 10:15:19 <Russ> a sex scandal is when you sleep with the other candidate's wife
Aug 06 10:15:26 <mru> Russ: if it involves a dick and a politician (is there a difference?), it's a sex scandal
Aug 06 10:15:37 <av500> so, two dicks make a scandal
Aug 06 10:15:41 <Russ> like the san diego mayor, not a sex scandal
Aug 06 10:15:53 <mru> clinton/lewinsky?
Aug 06 10:15:56 <das> so is Dick Cheney a scandal by himself ?
Aug 06 10:15:59 <Russ> sex scandal
Aug 06 10:16:35 <mru> das: I'd say so, yes
Aug 06 10:16:38 <Russ> I'll go ahead and declare that a sex scandal requires consent of both parties
Aug 06 10:16:52 <av500> please sign here for your scandal: .............
Aug 06 10:16:55 <mru> "both"?
Aug 06 10:16:59 <Russ> heh
Aug 06 10:17:04 <das> what if she's dead ?
Aug 06 10:17:19 <av500> ah, ze french....
Aug 06 10:17:21 <mru> what if a politician is caught masturbating in public?
Aug 06 10:17:21 <das> ( also, do I get a creeper card)
Aug 06 10:17:31 <cde> das: there is no space between the last work and the question mark
Aug 06 10:17:38 <mru> cde: he's french
Aug 06 10:17:40 <av500> cde: there is
Aug 06 10:17:42 <av500> in france
Aug 06 10:17:46 <Russ> ok, sorry, all involved parties were consenting
Aug 06 10:17:48 <av500> I gave up educating my coworkers
Aug 06 10:17:51 <cde> av500: I know.
Aug 06 10:17:53 <mru> they have space before ?, !, and :
Aug 06 10:17:56 <mru> but not . or ,
Aug 06 10:18:01 <mru> they're weird and inconsistent
Aug 06 10:18:11 <mru> not sure about ;
Aug 06 10:18:20 <Russ> I suppose we could have any unlimited number of politicians and constituents involved
Aug 06 10:18:21 <das> it's more beautiful that way           ! Don't you think       ?
Aug 06 10:18:32 <av500> no        it         is     not                 !°
Aug 06 10:18:35 <av500> -°
Aug 06 10:18:48 <Russ> No°
Aug 06 10:18:54 <cde> ; has a space behind it, I think
Aug 06 10:19:08 <das> nah, \n
Aug 06 10:19:12 <das> usually
Aug 06 10:19:17 <av500> dce: please, no trailing spaces!
Aug 06 10:19:19 <Russ> ‽ has a space where?
Aug 06 10:19:41 <mru> ah, the interrobang
Aug 06 10:19:54 <mru> I need to put that on a key
Aug 06 10:19:57 <cde> av500: don't dce me bro
Aug 06 10:20:02 <av500> ced: ok
Aug 06 10:20:07 <cde> np bro
Aug 06 10:20:15 <av500> dec: dude!
Aug 06 10:20:21 <cde> aaarh
Aug 06 10:20:42 <Russ> one man scandal http://i.qkme.me/3r0n05.jpg
Aug 06 10:28:11 <woglinde> uh looks like mollath is free after all
Aug 06 10:33:06 <ogra_> woglinde, ++
Aug 06 10:37:43 <sam_> what is procedure if I want to flash new image into eMMC of BBB?Is it necessary to hold SD-boot button till eMMC get completly flash ?
Aug 06 10:39:07 <sam_> helloooooo
Aug 06 10:39:28 <av500> no
Aug 06 10:39:30 <_troll_> boo
Aug 06 10:41:18 <sam_> what is procedure if I want to flash new image into eMMC of BBB?Is it necessary to hold SD-boot button till eMMC get completly flash ?
Aug 06 10:41:32 <sam_> what is procedure if I want to flash new image into eMMC of BBB?Is it necessary to hold SD-boot button till eMMC get completly flash ?
Aug 06 10:42:10 <ogra_> could you repeat that another 10 times ?
Aug 06 10:42:47 <jackmitchell> sam_: http://circuitco.com/support/index.php?title=Updating_The_Software
Aug 06 10:42:53 <jackmitchell> use google in future
Aug 06 10:42:58 <cde> sam_: you have to decide whether to put a space behind the question mark or not. be consistent man
Aug 06 10:43:56 <mru> and there should _always_ be a space _after_ it
Aug 06 10:44:04 <mru> unless at the end of a line of course
Aug 06 10:44:16 <cde> maybe he's half-french
Aug 06 10:44:28 <das> cde: canadian ?
Aug 06 10:44:36 <cde> quebecois even!
Aug 06 10:44:44 <das> québecois ?
Aug 06 10:44:48 <rob_w> any guy called Maxime Ripard in here or any chats of freenode ?
Aug 06 10:44:52 <cde> yep sorry. tabernacle
Aug 06 10:44:56 <das> :)
Aug 06 10:45:17 * cde uses qwerty. damn those accents
Aug 06 10:45:24 <das> alt+130
Aug 06 10:45:27 <das> IIRC
Aug 06 10:45:37 <mru> in latin1 perhaps
Aug 06 10:45:41 <av500> rob_w: yes
Aug 06 10:45:47 <av500> e.g. in #buildroot
Aug 06 10:45:55 <rob_w> nice
Aug 06 10:45:57 <rob_w> thx
Aug 06 10:45:59 <av500> rob_w: going for allwinner CPUs now?
Aug 06 10:46:03 <cde> ‚
Aug 06 10:46:18 <sam_> Thank you for Link.
Aug 06 10:46:33 <rob_w> no he has written also the drivers/video/ssd130fb.c .. which we bundle on our capes
Aug 06 10:47:02 <cde> rob_w: are you robert nelson?
Aug 06 10:47:08 <rob_w> nope
Aug 06 10:49:30 <ogra_> cde, robert nelsons nick is rcn-ee
Aug 06 10:49:45 <Russ> das, alt codes?, oh noes, please noes
Aug 06 10:50:31 <Russ> super e '
Aug 06 10:50:51 <Russ> er, compose e '
Aug 06 10:51:09 <mru> if that's how you've configured your keyboard
Aug 06 10:51:30 <Russ> us 'merican's don't have none of them commie keys on our keymap
Aug 06 10:51:51 <cde> spoken like a true American
Aug 06 10:52:20 <Russ> cde, yes, one must be careful to never become aware of the world around them
Aug 06 10:52:51 <cde> I guess you don't have to. the NSA does it for you :)
Aug 06 10:53:46 <rob_w> http://pastebin.com/pJKXXZu8  is my working patch for that leds-pca9532.c we talked yesterday to make it device tree aware .. it works for me but i wonder what you guys would think of such a patch ? specially in respect to non-device tree usages ? will that break them ?
Aug 06 11:09:28 <KotH> ahhh! the joys of dead, undistilled animals!
Aug 06 11:09:47 <mru> http://26-26-54.hardwarebug.org/188
Aug 06 11:12:05 <cde> who is Gabu
Aug 06 11:12:24 <mru> an evil troll from another channel
Aug 06 11:13:01 <KotH> from a country, far far away
Aug 06 11:13:04 <KotH> and a time long past
Aug 06 11:13:15 <mru> think cthulhu but more evil and less class
Aug 06 11:13:45 <cde> how did you awoke him
Aug 06 11:14:00 <cde> is there an incantation of some sorts?
Aug 06 11:14:35 <cde> mru: did you go mad after meeting him
Aug 06 11:14:43 <mru> I've never met him
Aug 06 11:15:07 <cde> excellent; you saved your sanity then
Aug 06 11:15:12 <KotH> i've met him once. weird guy.
Aug 06 11:15:25 <KotH> good thing i wasnt sane anymore before i met him
Aug 06 11:16:46 <mru> were you ever sane?
Aug 06 11:17:13 <KotH> http://26-26-54.hardwarebug.org/189
Aug 06 11:18:54 <cde> aren't you going to run out of quotes at some point
Aug 06 11:18:57 <cde> "peak quote"
Aug 06 11:19:25 <cde> a renewable source of quote is required
Aug 06 11:19:32 <mru> what's the half-life?
Aug 06 11:19:51 <mru> maybe we'll need to impose a quote quota
Aug 06 11:20:04 <cde> enforced by a quote police
Aug 06 11:20:22 * KotH appoints panto to the quote police
Aug 06 11:20:49 <panto> we can't let a quote gap develop
Aug 06 11:20:57 <mru> if you get caught, they cite you
Aug 06 11:21:09 <cde> quote abuse. truely a tragedy of out time
Aug 06 11:21:21 <mru> quote "abuse"
Aug 06 11:21:47 <cde> so meta. stop tangling my brain
Aug 06 11:22:29 <cde> and don't quote me bro
Aug 06 11:23:20 <KotH> nah, we wont. it aint funny
Aug 06 11:23:37 <cde> then my job here is done
Aug 06 11:23:48 <KotH> then you can leave now
Aug 06 11:23:52 <mru> KotH: you can use apostrophes, they don't count as quotes
Aug 06 11:24:09 <KotH> ^^'
Aug 06 11:34:43 <das> Russ: I need to know the alt-codes, my keyboard home is a qwerty
Aug 06 11:37:25 <Russ> das, the alt codes are horrible
Aug 06 11:37:32 <Russ> use the compose key instead
Aug 06 11:38:25 <das> Russ: that's windowsy ? never heard of it
Aug 06 11:38:38 <Russ> yes there is a windowsy compose utility
Aug 06 11:38:44 <mru> alt codes are windowsy
Aug 06 11:39:00 <Russ> https://code.google.com/p/freecompose/ for instance
Aug 06 11:39:17 <das> aight, I'll check that home, but otoh I know them all by now :)
Aug 06 11:41:10 <KotH> actually, alt codes are dosy, you whippersnappers
Aug 06 11:41:17 <mru> that too
Aug 06 11:41:24 <mru> windos
Aug 06 11:41:39 <Russ> yes, back in your day, you had to do that crap with punched cards and blood or whatever
Aug 06 11:42:02 <KotH> blood on chocolate
Aug 06 11:43:15 <Russ> hmmm...an 80 column chocolate punch card
Aug 06 11:43:39 <dm8tbr> black-pudding-chocolate?
Aug 06 11:47:01 <KotH> choclate flan
Aug 06 11:49:13 <dm8tbr> mmmmmmmmm, flan!
Aug 06 11:49:26 <dm8tbr> chocomel!
Aug 06 11:51:00 * KotH wonders whether he had a positive effect on the weight of the people in this channel already
Aug 06 11:51:32 <av500> since you told us that only swiss chocolate is OK to be consumed, I lost weight
Aug 06 11:54:02 <mru> and now for something completely different: http://www.slate.fr/monde/76224/maire-enfants-chats
Aug 06 11:56:41 <das> ^ wtf ?
Aug 06 11:56:50 <mru> exactly
Aug 06 11:58:08 <das> reddit has a washington post article link
Aug 06 11:58:16 <das> times*
Aug 06 11:58:27 <mru> AP picked it up
Aug 06 11:58:51 <mru> but they didn't mention the cat
Aug 06 11:59:46 <das> ah ... the states that don't touch the oceans ... god bless their good hearts
Aug 06 11:59:52 <das> I hope they marry well
Aug 06 12:00:23 <mru> it says some place in alaska has a cat for mayor
Aug 06 12:00:28 <mru> alaska is anything but landlocked
Aug 06 12:00:46 <mru> but it compensates by being alaska
Aug 06 12:01:07 <av500> one can see russia from there
Aug 06 12:01:12 <av500> that must count for sometrhing
Aug 06 12:01:47 <mru> the cat should run for governor
Aug 06 12:01:55 <mru> would surely be an improvement
Aug 06 12:02:44 <cde> I'd prefer the head of Nixon
Aug 06 12:21:50 * KotH preferes the heads of his enemies, in chocolate form
Aug 06 12:37:03 <ynezz> hm, BBB at "National Nuclear Security Administration's Kansas City Plant"
Aug 06 12:37:38 <ynezz> did they ever see the errata? :p
Aug 06 12:38:07 <KotH> which one?
Aug 06 12:38:23 <KotH> and toto, i have the feeling we are not in kansans anymore
Aug 06 12:38:29 <mru> the one that causes a core dump
Aug 06 12:38:39 <cverster> Vaizki: thanks for the help earlier, I seem to be able to activate UART 4, 2 and 1 with the command "echo BB-UART4 > /sys/devices/bone_capemgr.9/slots" but not UART 3? Is UART 3 used by something else?
Aug 06 12:39:04 <panto> IIRC uart 3 is not routed out
Aug 06 12:40:07 <brush2> hi there
Aug 06 12:40:29 <cverster> panto: thanks, i dont really know what that means but I guess it means I cant use it
Aug 06 12:40:34 <brush2> may i ask for some technical advice?
Aug 06 12:40:58 <cverster> also, if you change /boot/uEnv.txt, how come it does not stay the same after a boot?
Aug 06 12:41:10 <panto> cverster, it means that there are no pins that can transport signals for uart3 routed to the connector
Aug 06 12:41:23 <cverster> is there some way to change it permanently? or is it not meant to reset after a boot
Aug 06 12:41:54 <KotH> brush2: we do not give technical advice here. unless you pay us 2kg of good swiss chocolate, up front
Aug 06 12:42:15 <brush2> oops - ok :D
Aug 06 12:42:35 <mru> it's for the troll
Aug 06 12:42:48 <Spirilis> hush chocolate for the troll?
Aug 06 12:43:02 <brush2> damn - i am not from switzerland, but i try to arrange it
Aug 06 12:43:04 <panto> cverster, there are two places of uEnv.txt
Aug 06 12:43:14 <panto> the one in /media/BEAGLEBONE is the one
Aug 06 12:43:15 * _troll_ omnomnom
Aug 06 12:43:16 <KotH> brush2: yeah.. but dont try to fool us with your cheap german stuff
Aug 06 12:43:28 <cverster> panto: ya, must I change both?
Aug 06 12:43:49 <brush2> lol, no, ofc not
Aug 06 12:44:02 <panto> no, only the one in /media...
Aug 06 12:44:17 <cverster> haha I changed the wrong one then
Aug 06 12:45:02 <brush2> i would like to know if its possible to connect a infrasonic component (from a car alarm system) to BB black
Aug 06 12:45:14 <KotH> ofc it's possible
Aug 06 12:45:52 <brush2> i am way below a "rookie" on such technical stuff
Aug 06 12:46:07 <cverster> if you have enough ducktape and cable ties, you can connect to anything
Aug 06 12:46:28 <brush2> but i can give you some technical details of the component-> Operating voltage10 - 16 Volt DCPower consumption< 0,0037 AmpèreAlarm output(-) Ground, 300mA, 0,6-2 Sec.Dimension
Aug 06 12:47:23 <mru> power is measured in amperes now?
Aug 06 12:47:56 <brush2> i just copied the details from the website :)
Aug 06 12:48:01 <cverster> panto: I don't understand, I put the command "echo BB-UART4 > /sys/devices/bone_capemgr.9/slots" into /media/BEAGLEBONE/uEnv.txt, but it does not run the command on boot?
Aug 06 12:48:13 <brush2> http://www.store.ampire.de/Security-Systems/Sensors/Interior-sensor/AMPIRE-2-channel-Infrasonic-Sensor.htm?shop=ampire_en&SessionId=&a=article&ProdNr=PS101D&t=6188&c=19291&p=19291
Aug 06 12:48:42 <panto> cverster, stop
Aug 06 12:49:01 <panto> you're going to hurt yourself
Aug 06 12:49:06 <cverster> haha
Aug 06 12:49:13 <panto> read about what's in the uEnv.txt
Aug 06 12:49:13 <cverster> I'm learning ok!
Aug 06 12:49:22 <cverster> ok thanks, will do
Aug 06 12:49:23 <panto> they are bootloader environment arguments
Aug 06 12:49:29 <panto> not shell commands
Aug 06 12:50:30 <brush2> so my question is, can i connect this component to BB black w/o any further hardware?
Aug 06 12:51:04 <dogmatic69> brush2: "Operating voltage10 - 16"
Aug 06 12:51:04 <brush2> i mean regarding the power values..
Aug 06 12:51:40 <brush2> yeah ... thats what they say on the website...
Aug 06 12:54:15 <dogmatic69> seems like that is just one of these in a box http://www.digikey.com/catalog/en/partgroup/mpxv7002-series/11800
Aug 06 12:56:15 <KotH> brush2: from the non-datasheet, it's impossible to tell how you have to connect this sensor to anything
Aug 06 12:57:26 <mru> I'm guessing it should be connected with wires
Aug 06 12:58:01 <brush2> ok - and that about the power values? can i connect it to BB black as is - or do i need any resistors or so?
Aug 06 12:58:07 <KotH> i would have used 0.5mm traces on a 2.8mm thick FR4, three layer PCB
Aug 06 12:58:26 <KotH> brush2: there is no place on the BBB where you have 12V
Aug 06 12:58:57 <KotH> brush2: i would also not connect any of the signal outputs w/o ensuring they are 0-3.3V first, otherwise you fry your BBB
Aug 06 12:59:49 <brush2> wow - is see this will be an adventure :)
Aug 06 13:00:06 <KotH> brush2: no, you just need to learn basic electronics first
Aug 06 13:00:19 <KotH> brush2: get a Kosmos Electronis 1000 kit and experiment with it a bit :)
Aug 06 13:00:28 <brush2> yeah - i am afraid i have to
Aug 06 13:00:35 <KotH> brush2: also the old Francis book "Elektronik" might be a good start :)
Aug 06 13:00:49 <brush2> ok mate - thank you!
Aug 06 13:02:13 <KotH> np
Aug 06 13:02:34 <KotH> that'll cost you 3kg of chocolate, please
Aug 06 13:03:34 <brush2> sweet or bitter choc?
Aug 06 13:04:04 <Spirilis> trolls like bitterness.
Aug 06 13:05:27 <brush2> ok - so i'll get some for ye  :)  cu guys and thx again :)
Aug 06 13:05:58 <cverster> test
Aug 06 13:06:05 <cverster> sorry
Aug 06 13:08:16 <KotH> good chocolate isnt bitter ^^;
Aug 06 13:11:45 <cverster> how does one execute a terminal command on boot?
Aug 06 13:12:52 <Spirilis> that is true, I have had dark chocolate that is not bitter.  I think the technique is to dutch it all to hell?
Aug 06 13:13:00 <Spirilis> remove all the tannins
Aug 06 13:16:43 <lroe> Is there an option to power a beagleboard via PoE?
Aug 06 13:17:08 <mru> sure, with an external splitter
Aug 06 13:17:32 <lroe> not what I meant
Aug 06 13:17:46 <av500> what did you mean then?
Aug 06 13:18:37 <lroe> a 'daughter card' or 'addon card' or whatever you call it, that accepts an ethernet cable and provides power to the rest of the system
Aug 06 13:18:53 <av500> just power?
Aug 06 13:18:57 <mru> you can call the splitter whatever you want
Aug 06 13:19:00 <lroe> and pass data through
Aug 06 13:19:02 <av500> so for POE you would need 2 cables
Aug 06 13:19:13 <av500> no ethernet on the cape connectors
Aug 06 13:19:26 <mru> no, but you can run a short cable
Aug 06 13:19:29 <av500> yes
Aug 06 13:19:32 <Spirilis> yeah, or your "splitter" cape would need a pass-thru ethernet port for a very short stub cable
Aug 06 13:19:39 <Spirilis> ^ what they said
Aug 06 13:19:42 <mru> like those old 3d accelerators did with vga
Aug 06 13:19:46 <lroe> ok
Aug 06 13:19:55 <av500> feel free to design one
Aug 06 13:20:10 <av500> it could also run a stub cable to 5V DCIN
Aug 06 13:20:19 <av500> then you could go without the cape connector
Aug 06 13:20:23 <av500> and call it a "splitter"
Aug 06 13:20:34 <mru> seems the simpler solution by far
Aug 06 13:20:35 <Spirilis> side note, I keep thinking it would be cool to design a solar powered home system based on 48VDC and have PoE-enabled ports everywhere to use it.
Aug 06 13:20:43 <Spirilis> as a parallel (non-grid-tied) solar system
Aug 06 13:20:48 <lroe> I'm already 3 yaks deep with my project designing a another board is a 4th yak I don't want to get involved in
Aug 06 13:21:04 <KotH> buy a splitter
Aug 06 13:21:10 <KotH> cheap, easy, doesnt cost a yak
Aug 06 13:21:15 <Spirilis> just a cow
Aug 06 13:21:21 <KotH> beside, yak are endangered species
Aug 06 13:21:24 <lroe> thanks for the suggestions
Aug 06 13:21:25 <Spirilis> ^
Aug 06 15:01:35 <av500> koen: btw, got my cheap L298 driver
Aug 06 15:01:39 <av500> 5 of them
Aug 06 15:58:38 <Guest13473> Hello guys, I have a problem with my BBB: When I read out the ADC values with "cat /sys/devices/ocp.2/helper.11/AIN*" most readings are fine, but sometimes the measured voltage drops to zero (or very low). I cannot see any voltage drops with my oscilloscope. Any ideas?
Aug 06 16:15:13 <cfo215> Anyone have any luck compiling Qt 4.8.x on Ubuntu x86_ 64 for Ubuntu on Beaglebone Black
Aug 06 16:21:35 <woglinde> cfo215 why luck?
Aug 06 16:22:46 <mru> how else would it happen?
Aug 06 16:26:05 <woglinde> mru understanding the buildsystem?
Aug 06 16:26:17 <woglinde> he didnt say he wants the sgx qt driver
Aug 06 16:26:40 <Guest13473> What is the best way to read in ADC values in C++? I have a BeagleBone Black
Aug 06 16:27:10 <woglinde> Guest13473 opening some sysfs files?
Aug 06 16:29:15 <Guest13473> Sysfs files? Where do I find them?
Aug 06 16:29:51 <woglinde> under /sys/?
Aug 06 16:29:55 <agmlego> In /sys
Aug 06 16:30:41 <Guest13473> which file for ADC0?
Aug 06 16:31:10 <Guest13473> and then read it in with an ifstream?
Aug 06 16:32:25 <woglinde> just examine /sys
Aug 06 16:32:40 <woglinde> and you will find out or read the kernelcode
Aug 06 16:33:14 <agmlego> Guest13473: Literally the first Google result for "beaglebone adc c++": http://beaglebone.cameon.net/home/reading-the-analog-inputs-adc
Aug 06 16:34:19 <Guest13473> I did that already and it's the way I'm doing it right now, but I experience some problems with it. On an oscilloscope I see a nice signal, but measure random voltage drops?
Aug 06 16:34:53 <mranostay> morning
Aug 06 16:34:53 <woglinde> agmlego you spoiled all the fun
Aug 06 16:35:07 <woglinde> hi mranostay
Aug 06 16:35:50 <agmlego> Guest13473: Are you unsure about seeing random voltage drops? Are you expecting to see random voltage drops?
Aug 06 16:36:40 <Guest13473> The measurements are off and I can't tell if it's the way I read the values or if I detroyed the adcs
Aug 06 16:37:13 <Guest13473> my signal is perfectly flat but I get random voltage drops about every half second
Aug 06 16:38:06 <agmlego> Are you trying to ask the ADC for data faster than it can sample?
Aug 06 16:38:23 <agmlego> Remember, the ADCs are only capable of doing a full measurement every ~125ns.
Aug 06 16:38:26 <Guest13473> I guess not, I'm asking for data every second
Aug 06 16:38:34 <agmlego> If you sample faster than that, you will get bad results.
Aug 06 16:39:39 <woglinde> hm?
Aug 06 16:39:53 <Guest13473> I read a different input fast after that, maybe this is it?
Aug 06 16:39:54 <woglinde> so you already have code for reading adc values?
Aug 06 16:40:24 <Guest13473> yes and it works most of the time
Aug 06 16:40:47 <agmlego> Are you positive the signal is not actually dropping periodically?
Aug 06 16:40:51 <agmlego> And if so, how?
Aug 06 16:42:13 <Guest13473> I looked at the signal with an oscilloscope. The BBB has just one single adc is that right? So I cannot measure two fast consecutive signals?
Aug 06 16:43:49 <agmlego> The bone's ADC(s) were originally intended to read a resistive touchscreen, so they are not fast.
Aug 06 16:44:03 <agmlego> And yes, I believe there is a single ADC with a multiplexer on it.
Aug 06 16:44:31 <agmlego> If you really want fast analog signals, get a discrete ADC and bolt it onto SPI or I2C.
Aug 06 16:44:42 <Guest13473> ok so that could be the cause of my problems... Thank you!
Aug 06 16:44:59 <agmlego> Analog Devices make pretty good ones, and I think both Linear and Maxim carry ADCs as well.
Aug 06 16:45:53 <Guest13473> They don't need to be fast, I put a delay in between the two calls.
Aug 06 16:46:24 <agmlego> ...so they have toi be fast, but do not have to be fast?
Aug 06 16:46:48 <agmlego> "So I cannot measure two fast consecutive signals?" "They don't need to be fast"
Aug 06 16:46:54 * agmlego is confused
Aug 06 16:47:01 <Guest13473> Sry for confusion!
Aug 06 16:47:46 <Guest13473> I want to read two different values every second. So instead of "readOne; readTwo;" I now do "readOne; delay; readTwo" to let the adc rest a bit ;)
Aug 06 16:49:11 <agmlego> Sure. What are you reading?
Aug 06 16:49:36 <Guest13473> So I just tested this and it seems to work
Aug 06 16:49:45 <agmlego> There you go then.
Aug 06 16:49:52 <agmlego> Glad to be of help. ;-P
Aug 06 16:50:00 <Guest13473> Thank you very much! :)
Aug 06 17:19:02 <brimestone> Hey guys, the only way i can  update my BBB is via MicroSD is this correct?
Aug 06 17:20:49 <mranostay> or network
Aug 06 17:27:18 <woglinde> or jtag?
Aug 06 17:31:17 <brimestone> network? Where do you guys see this information?
Aug 06 17:33:11 <woglinde> u-boot can access network, serial-console, usb and emmc
Aug 06 17:34:28 <brimestone> i dont see any instruction on how to update aside from MicroSD
Aug 06 17:58:14 <brimestone> just installed node.js:node-mysql and realized that you need to set the BBB clock everytime, should i have it check timeserver and update internal clock and timeserver is available?
Aug 06 18:02:58 <SoCo_cpp_> There is no reason I shouldn't be able to just  tie a 5V IC's TX UART line down to ground with a 100 ohm resister, knocking it down to ~3.16V when high, and run that right to my Bone's UART RX 3.3V pin is there? Or do I need a diod? I'd like to go simple, I realize and Opto, transister, or level chip would be ideal.
Aug 06 18:08:34 <SoCo_cpp_> (of course with commoned grounds)
Aug 06 18:09:10 <brimestone> how can i install PICO on BBB
Aug 06 18:09:21 <c10ud> SoCo_cpp_, i think you mean a
Aug 06 18:09:24 <c10ud> two resistor
Aug 06 18:09:29 <c10ud> resistors*
Aug 06 18:09:39 <c10ud> and I'd use bigger values
Aug 06 18:10:51 <woglinde> brimestone opkg install vim
Aug 06 18:12:30 <SoCo_cpp_> c10ud so a plain voltage divider?
Aug 06 18:13:28 <brimestone> ohh vim.. i forgot about vim..
Aug 06 18:13:29 <brimestone> Thanks
Aug 06 18:13:59 <c10ud> SoCo_cpp_, yep: i actually used that and it works good, I don't remember the exact values but it was in the order of kohms
Aug 06 18:13:59 <Russ> panto, have fun rewriting drivers/base/
Aug 06 18:15:06 <SoCo_cpp_> c10ud thanks, I think I'll focus in that direction.
Aug 06 18:16:11 <panto> Russ, get ready for another pointless rewrite to ACPI standards
Aug 06 18:16:16 <panto> *gag*
Aug 06 18:17:39 <c10ud> SoCo_cpp_, yw
Aug 06 18:17:45 <brimestone> i can use vi but i would love pico in here.. oh well...
Aug 06 18:21:37 <Russ> brimestone, look for nano
Aug 06 18:22:08 <brimestone> thanks? i might just wipe it to ubuntu..
Aug 06 18:24:33 * mranostay shudders
Aug 06 18:29:06 <panto> Russ, is it too bad to also expect one of the omap maintainers to chime in, instead of hiding under a rock?
Aug 06 18:34:12 <brimestone> Yes! my first hardware to mySQL interaction
Aug 06 18:34:58 <brimestone> damn it feels good!
Aug 06 18:37:41 <brimestone> i have a couple of Arduino Shield ( DFRobot LCD and others ) whats the chances that it may work with B^3
Aug 06 18:40:12 <rob_w> plug n try
Aug 06 18:40:22 <Russ> panto, probably
Aug 06 18:48:00 <mranostay> rob_w: plug n pray
Aug 06 18:48:20 <mranostay> isn't that what PnP stands for?
Aug 06 18:48:34 <rob_w> atheist do try instead of pray
Aug 06 18:50:08 <mranostay> touche
Aug 06 19:03:56 <m_billybob> afternoon
Aug 06 19:04:11 <kfoltman> 'lo bob
Aug 06 19:07:36 <m_billybob> hows it going today ?
Aug 06 19:10:57 <kfoltman> well, what can I say, it's Friday...
Aug 06 19:11:13 <m_billybob> ah right
Aug 06 19:11:14 <panto> I have to refer to av500 for that
Aug 06 19:11:31 <kfoltman> panto: any relevant quote?
Aug 06 19:11:54 <m_billybob> such as dousing ones bbb in water before too much more progress is made ?
Aug 06 19:11:59 <cde> m_billybob: fine! and you?
Aug 06 19:12:10 <m_billybob> not too bad actually
Aug 06 19:12:11 <kfoltman> m_billybob: ordered few more parts, delivery - hopefully next Friday (as in, tomorrow)
Aug 06 19:12:23 <kfoltman> m_billybob: only water can stop me now
Aug 06 19:12:26 <panto> http://26-26-54.hardwarebug.org/181
Aug 06 19:12:33 <m_billybob> hehehe
Aug 06 19:12:48 <kfoltman> panto: what if we need a non-emergency Friday?
Aug 06 19:12:55 <m_billybob> panto seem applicable.
Aug 06 19:13:09 <m_billybob> although yeah its already friday so se kfoltman
Aug 06 19:13:15 <m_billybob> see*
Aug 06 19:13:22 <kfoltman> panto: also, we had a transport strike... feels like Greece, I suppose
Aug 06 19:13:28 <panto> kfoltman, there's a non-emergency one once every week
Aug 06 19:13:56 <kfoltman> (greetings from a fellow PIIG)
Aug 06 19:14:07 <panto> kfoltman, it will start feeling like .gr when one of the top apps in the itunes store is about the strike schedule of the week
Aug 06 19:14:19 <kfoltman> panto: seriously? :D
Aug 06 19:14:33 <panto> kfoltman, which piggy are you?
Aug 06 19:14:38 <kfoltman> panto: the extra 'I'
Aug 06 19:14:39 <panto> kfoltman, yes :)
Aug 06 19:14:43 <panto> heh
Aug 06 19:15:06 <kfoltman> the one where the country leaders don't openly boast of underage sex ;)
Aug 06 19:15:56 <m_billybob> ...
Aug 06 19:17:07 <kfoltman> m_billybob: the biggest obstacle for me is "how to cut a rectangular hole in a plastic enclosure", I suppose I won't find the answer on your blog ;)
Aug 06 19:17:38 <EasyAt> kfoltman: http://www.rjmedina.com/lair/gallery/scratchbuilding/008_plastic_cutter.jpg
Aug 06 19:18:18 <kfoltman> EasyAt: huh? looks almost like a utility knife... except...
Aug 06 19:18:19 <kfoltman> hmmm
Aug 06 19:18:29 <Russ> panto, I would encourage people to allow you to make the changes needed to make things work so that it can be "a starting point for discussion"
Aug 06 19:22:14 <EasyAt> kfoltman: you pull it over and over again on the line you want to cut
Aug 06 19:22:25 <EasyAt> Eventually the line will be deep enough oyu can tap the square out
Aug 06 19:30:33 <jose___> hello, does somebody know how to open the beaglebone directories from the nautilus of the virtual machine? becouse I go to the directory networks but it doesn't appear
Aug 06 19:30:46 <panto> g'night ladies
Aug 06 19:32:00 <cyronin> hey, quick question, more kernel module related than beagle related
Aug 06 19:33:01 <cyronin> i have a bmp085 pressure sensor, and i have it hooked up to i2c2 (enabled it echoing BB-I2C1 to capemgr) and i know its i2c address is 0x77 as returned by i2cdetect
Aug 06 19:33:22 <cyronin> and im trying to enable the bmp085-i2c driver to use it
Aug 06 19:34:19 <m_billybob> kfoltman, i could write on up though lol
Aug 06 19:34:39 <m_billybob> kfoltman i have actually done similar stuff, but most i work with aluminum
Aug 06 19:34:47 <m_billybob> mostly*
Aug 06 19:34:48 <cyronin> for some reason, doing an echo bmp085-i2c 0x77 > /sys/bus/i2c/devices/i2c-2/new_device seems to instantiate some new device
Aug 06 19:35:27 <cyronin> but it doesnt load the module. leading the module and then doing this doesn't seem to pull up anything in sysfs entry either
Aug 06 19:35:35 <cyronin> is there some other way i should be doing this?
Aug 06 19:35:51 <annex17> does anyone know of instructions for connecting a printer to the bbb? I am new to linux and cant find anything specific to the bbb
Aug 06 19:36:27 <m_billybob> annex17 as long as its a standard USB type, i would think any old linux howto would work.
Aug 06 19:37:09 <agmlego> ^^^
Aug 06 19:37:14 <m_billybob> SMB/CUPS
Aug 06 19:37:19 <agmlego> And if it is parallel, feel free to bitbang it.
Aug 06 19:39:40 <ds2> if you use a sane kernel, edit the board file
Aug 06 19:39:59 <ds2> otherwise, get the waste basket out to fill with hair
Aug 06 19:40:10 <m_billybob> Just need to remember that despite this being ARM instead of x86, everythign should work exactly the same. Assuming drivers / software is availible
Aug 06 19:40:39 <m_billybob> is/are/whatever
Aug 06 19:43:18 <cyronin> i may just be failing at google-fu right now, but i literally cannot find anything online about actually loading an i2c module
Aug 06 19:44:14 <cyronin> everything about using this chip is messing around with making userspace drivers, despite the existence of the damned chip
Aug 06 19:44:22 <cyronin> module*
Aug 06 19:44:49 <ds2> stop using modules
Aug 06 19:44:52 <ds2> compile it into the kernel
Aug 06 19:45:07 <ds2> userspace == bad. do not do userspace drivers.
Aug 06 19:47:04 <cyronin> well, im just running on top of a debian image made for the bbb, i was trying not to set up an entire kernel build environment, and yeah, userspace drivers seem really silly to mess around with when a driver _actually_ exists for it in the kernel
Aug 06 19:48:23 <cyronin> bmp085-i2c exists in lib/modules, and i figure there should be a way to actually load the module to use it on the i2c bus
Aug 06 19:48:52 <cyronin> and i thought that  /sys/bus/i2c/devices/i2c-2/new_device was the mechanism to do that
Aug 06 19:50:49 <cyronin> but it just seems to make a new entry in /sys/bus/i2c/devices where the name value is set as bmp085-i2c, but the driver isnt loaded
Aug 06 19:53:41 <cyronin> im probably really asking in the wrong channel though
Aug 06 19:54:00 <mranostay> cyronin: never be on topic
Aug 06 19:54:08 <m_billybob> probably not off topic here
Aug 06 19:54:39 <cyronin> i mean, i _am_ using a beaglebone to do this i guess
Aug 06 19:54:49 <m_billybob> white or black ?
Aug 06 19:54:54 <cyronin> black
Aug 06 19:55:17 <m_billybob> have yo uchecked out derrek molloy's youtube video on device tree ?
Aug 06 19:55:28 <m_billybob> he has a text blog on it too
Aug 06 19:56:01 <cyronin> I have, im not quite familiar enough with it to include a way to load the i2c driver into it, but i guess that is a good way to approach it
Aug 06 19:56:20 <m_billybob> me either otherwise id try to help
Aug 06 19:56:25 <m_billybob> however
Aug 06 19:56:33 <cyronin> i just remember seeing his video on using the i2c sysfs magic to play around with i2c devices
Aug 06 19:56:36 <m_billybob> hipstercircuits
Aug 06 19:56:47 <m_billybob> well he has a new video that he did maybe a month ago
Aug 06 19:56:50 <m_billybob> specific to the black
Aug 06 19:56:56 <m_billybob> you're runnign debian ?
Aug 06 19:57:18 <cyronin> yeah, i downloaded the image probably about a month ago
Aug 06 19:57:34 <m_billybob> and you know how to setup debugfs and all that on debian ?
Aug 06 19:57:50 <m_billybob> its not *that* hard but if you dont know about it . . .
Aug 06 19:58:12 <m_billybob> like me i didnt know . . .so i spent a day researching it, and wrote a small blog post on it
Aug 06 19:58:20 <m_billybob> not specific to i2c though
Aug 06 19:59:55 <cyronin> ive done a simple mount -t debugf none /sys/kernel/debug
Aug 06 20:00:01 <cyronin> is that enough?
Aug 06 20:00:19 <m_billybob> yeah thats what i descriibe here -> http://www.embeddedhobbyist.com/debian-tips/beaglebone-black/mount-debugfs-on-debian/
Aug 06 20:00:23 <m_billybob> same thing
Aug 06 20:01:06 <m_billybob> but that blog post if spcific to anything would be more GPIO
Aug 06 20:01:07 <cyronin> gotcha, ill look around in that
Aug 06 20:01:25 <m_billybob> you can poke around though
Aug 06 20:01:43 <m_billybob> on the bbb i mean
Aug 06 20:01:51 <cyronin> thing is, i could have sworn a month ago i had an i2c driver loaded and working for like, an accelerometer, and i did it through sysfs
Aug 06 20:02:18 <cyronin> and i could have sworn it was just a simple use of new_device in the i2c directory
Aug 06 20:02:39 <m_billybob> well if you follow Robert Nelsons build from source instructions. using his scripts etc, you get all that in source on the cross compile system
Aug 06 20:02:57 <m_billybob> so making your own DT's from that isnt that hard
Aug 06 20:03:22 <m_billybob> last i looked every possible DT was availible in source on the cross compile system
Aug 06 20:03:44 <m_billybob> well I2C UART SPI etc is what i mean
Aug 06 20:04:07 <m_billybob> PWM tgoo i think
Aug 06 20:04:11 <m_billybob> too*
Aug 06 20:05:55 <m_billybob> If you're not really interrested in recompilign uboot and the kernel from source, you could still download the kernel source in full or partial and get all that. download his devce tree compiler setup script and just compile the dts's that you need
Aug 06 20:06:20 <m_billybob> from here
Aug 06 20:06:21 <m_billybob> http://eewiki.net/display/linuxonarm/BeagleBone+Black
Aug 06 20:06:33 <m_billybob> which kernel version are you using ?
Aug 06 20:07:01 <cyronin> 3.8.12-bone17
Aug 06 20:07:23 <m_billybob> ah so slightly older it may still work but not sure
Aug 06 20:07:24 <cyronin> i think i just need to recompile the device tree, at best
Aug 06 20:07:35 <m_billybob> well his script does all that for you
Aug 06 20:07:45 <cyronin> because i dont think its an issue with the driver being a module
Aug 06 20:07:58 <m_billybob> down at the top of the kernel section on that link is dtc script download etc
Aug 06 20:08:05 <cyronin> its more that the device tree needs to tell the kernel to load the module
Aug 06 20:08:37 <cyronin> like, i know its probably _bad taste_ to have an i2c driver as a module
Aug 06 20:08:52 <m_billybob> i would not say that
Aug 06 20:09:42 <cyronin> but my big problem is more just trying to get the module to load onto the proper bus and address
Aug 06 20:09:52 <m_billybob> only real problem there is that you have to recompile the kernel everytime the driver needs changes. but again im new so  there could be other issues im unaware of
Aug 06 20:10:12 <cyronin> im just trying to use the driver that already exists
Aug 06 20:10:17 <cyronin> already compiled
Aug 06 20:10:48 <cyronin> im not going to develop on it, this is me just trying to use it to get pressure and sensor data
Aug 06 20:12:11 <cyronin> which i dont think should have to require a kernel recompile anyways, and i do, shame on whoever made it so i have to
Aug 06 20:12:36 <cyronin> and if it does*
Aug 06 20:12:40 <cyronin> im not wording right
Aug 06 20:12:54 <m_billybob> think i understand
Aug 06 20:13:47 <cyronin> so, the kernel object is named bmp085-i2c.ko
Aug 06 20:14:17 <cyronin> so i logically assumed that loading it was a simple matter of typing in:
Aug 06 20:14:26 <cyronin> echo bmp085-i2c 0x77
Aug 06 20:14:52 <m_billybob> have yo usen this then ? -> http://hipstercircuits.com/enable-i2c-for-eeprom-with-device-tree-overlays-on-beaglebone-black/
Aug 06 20:15:13 <cyronin> > /sys/bus/i2c/devices/i2c-2/new_device
Aug 06 20:15:34 <cyronin> i think that will have to be my next option
Aug 06 20:15:49 <cyronin> which i really dont want to do because that is beagle specific
Aug 06 20:16:15 <cyronin> until device tree overlays gets pushed upstream into an arm linux thing
Aug 06 20:23:59 <cyronin> GOT IT
Aug 06 20:24:14 <cyronin> i was typing the name of the driver, not the name of the device
Aug 06 20:24:53 <cyronin> so you type in echo bmp085 0x77 > /sys/bus/i2c/devices/i2c-2/new_device
Aug 06 20:25:21 <cyronin> instead of echo bmp085-i2c 0x77 > /sys/bus/i2c/devices/i2c-2/new_device
Aug 06 20:30:05 <Vaizki> dumb question, what does that do?
Aug 06 20:35:57 <rob_w> he is trying to load that driver on the i2c2 bus
Aug 06 20:38:33 <Vaizki> ok n00b mode, I guess i2c devices can't be enumerated in any way since all you can see is an id on the bus like 0x77 in this case? and if you probe you might actually screw up a write-only device?
Aug 06 20:39:52 <Vaizki> so either you poke them in via sysfs like that or roll up a DTO?
Aug 06 20:39:55 <rob_w> well they are rather "adressed" then "enumrated" .. yet the get enumrated after registering
Aug 06 20:40:37 <rob_w> the 0x77 is the adress the chip will response only .. hardcoded
Aug 06 20:40:56 <Vaizki> yea.. or selectable on some via pins et
Aug 06 20:40:57 <Vaizki> etc
Aug 06 20:41:01 <rob_w> yeah
Aug 06 20:41:10 <rob_w> like base + x
Aug 06 20:41:12 <SpeedEvil> And I2C devices may not have - probably don't have - unique responses.
Aug 06 20:41:48 <SpeedEvil> there is no 'card information structure' like cardbus, for example, showing the device type.
Aug 06 20:41:55 <SpeedEvil> Or descriptors like for USB
Aug 06 20:42:11 <Vaizki> ye that's what I meant, no way to know what's on there
Aug 06 20:42:21 <Vaizki> just ping some addresses and even that's risky
Aug 06 20:42:46 <SpeedEvil> Same as with ISA, pretty-much.
Aug 06 20:43:18 <rob_w> you better be carefull with that i2c-bomb-activater chips ..
Aug 06 20:44:02 <SpeedEvil> Or I2C power supply chips.
Aug 06 20:44:08 <SpeedEvil> Which are rather more common
Aug 06 20:44:17 <Vaizki> yea like the PMIC on the BBB...
Aug 06 20:45:10 <Vaizki> don't want to be a wiseass or anything but why not make command 0 return the device mfg + type id as part of the i2c "standard"..
Aug 06 20:45:15 <m_billybob> so not programming the i2c on the BBB but the actual device on the other end ?
Aug 06 20:45:16 <Vaizki> a bit late now
Aug 06 20:45:25 <SpeedEvil> Vaizki: Because it wasn't.
Aug 06 20:45:34 <SpeedEvil> Vaizki: And because that's not the point of I2C.
Aug 06 20:45:37 <Vaizki> yes. wiseassing.
Aug 06 20:45:43 <SpeedEvil> It's very much a dedicated soldered-in bus.
Aug 06 20:46:17 <SpeedEvil> The notion that people might want to - like now - probe using generic kernels - is deeply odd - from an embedded perspective.
Aug 06 20:47:26 <Vaizki> yes and I know the idea is that if you have plugin boards etc, put an eeprom on a known i2c address there and store app level info in it to recognize hardware
Aug 06 20:48:03 <Vaizki> instead of supporting bus scanning / enumeration on the i2c level of things. but I digress.
Aug 06 20:53:52 <m_billybob> suddenly i feel very lost.
Aug 06 20:54:13 <m_billybob> no biggy though i suppose, ill get there some day
Aug 06 20:55:05 <tolip> newby question -- Is anyone here communicating with a BBB via a USB  3.0 port and also using a Linux-3.10.5 kernel on the PC?
Aug 06 20:55:19 <m_billybob> communicating how
Aug 06 20:55:40 <m_billybob> and yes i am but not sure of the context in whcih you mean
Aug 06 20:55:54 <tolip> serial over USB or ethernet over USB
Aug 06 20:56:02 <m_billybob> using 3.8.13.-bone21 though
Aug 06 20:56:35 <m_billybob> so like RNDIS or g_ether. yes i have done that. not very impressed with it but it does seem to work.
Aug 06 20:57:57 <m_billybob> If you're about to ask if booting via RNDIS /g_multi is possible . . . ive tried that too, and so far it is a no go. atleast for me and I am not sure why
Aug 06 20:59:43 <ds2> the mailing list is depressing
Aug 06 20:59:54 <m_billybob> is today so far
Aug 06 21:01:50 <tolip> welp I don't have a micro hdmi cable yet so I figgered it was the way to go but I can not even do basic serial over USB, lots of things changed in 3.10.x arghhhhh
Aug 06 21:03:30 <m_billybob> im using the ethernet port on the BBB, wanted to experiment some with NFS over RNDIS, and I did get it to work, but it was depressing. slow as hell, and the connection seems to be intermitent( this isnt stick btw )
Aug 06 21:03:44 <m_billybob> stock*
Aug 06 21:04:44 <tolip> does the BBB get it's IP via DHCP? (latest Angstrom eMMC)
Aug 06 21:05:02 <maxinux> by default
Aug 06 21:05:07 <m_billybob> for RNDIS ? No
Aug 06 21:05:27 <m_billybob> technically the host side is dhcp, but its limited to a range of one IP.
Aug 06 21:05:40 <m_billybob> 192.168.7.1
Aug 06 21:07:04 <RypRap>  tolip: yes and u can use opkg
Aug 06 21:08:05 <woglinde> ds2 whats up?
Aug 06 21:08:35 <RypRap> damn, weak micro hdmi adaptor bended too much... so i wont know if hdmi on BBB really works..
Aug 06 21:09:54 <tolip> lol, I just wanna see something besides the mass storage device over USB (I did say I was a BBB newby :)
Aug 06 21:10:19 <m_billybob> tolip host OS ?
Aug 06 21:10:49 <tolip> If I turn on DHCP on my network will the BBB get an address?
Aug 06 21:11:01 <m_billybob> from ethernet yes.
Aug 06 21:11:22 <tolip> I'm runnin Slackware (well it started out as Slackware anyways)
Aug 06 21:11:43 <m_billybob> tolip so should be possible there was some recent discussion o nthe groups about that
Aug 06 21:12:24 <m_billybob> if you mean you would like to see the rootfs partition. ALthough im not sure of the steps needed to do so
Aug 06 21:14:27 <tolip> I think you answered my question, I'll enable DHCP on my router and plug it in.
Aug 06 21:14:59 <m_billybob> tolip are you having ssh issues ?
Aug 06 21:15:20 <RypRap> is it really to boot or flash from network instead of sd/emmc ?
Aug 06 21:15:26 <RypRap> really possible *
Aug 06 21:15:56 <m_billybob> RypRap it is possible to boot from USB / network
Aug 06 21:16:20 <m_billybob> so i guess your answer would be yes. i was reading some TI docs yesterday that said it was posible
Aug 06 21:20:05 <tolip> I have not gotten that far yet (ssh). The beginners guide seems to be windoze centric and the limited Linux stuff seems to assume Ubuntu _IS_ linux
Aug 06 21:20:31 <m_billybob> RypRap err, sorry, yes to both I know for a fact that netboot via TFTP/NFS does work.
Aug 06 21:20:35 <mru> ubuntu is not linux
Aug 06 21:20:45 <tolip> I flashed via microSD (according to the blue spotlights)
Aug 06 21:22:01 <m_billybob> My BBB is actuall booted from a TFTP/NFS server ( on a Virtual box VM ) right now, and in this channel
Aug 06 21:22:09 <tolip> agree Ubu is not linux, it's just that the info I find on the web seems to assume I am runnin Ubu
Aug 06 21:22:40 <tolip> on the host PC that is
Aug 06 21:22:54 <m_billybob> I wouldnt personally use ubuntu on the bbb either
Aug 06 21:23:18 <RypRap> m_billybob: do u have any pointers for TI doc about booting from usb/network ?
Aug 06 21:23:39 <m_billybob> RypRap, which distro are you running Angstrom ?
Aug 06 21:23:43 <cde> RypRap: http://www.embeddedhobbyist.com/
Aug 06 21:24:46 <RypRap> yes angstrom, the original one, and id like to update to latest version without sd
Aug 06 21:25:38 <tolip> BBB-eMMC-flasher-2013.07.31.img  (the bleeding edge, just like my Linux 3.10.5 kernel)
Aug 06 21:25:39 <RypRap> cde:  thnk im checking that
Aug 06 21:25:49 <m_billybob> RypRap yeah thats my blog , its debian centric, but with some creativity, should work with angstrom too. The rootfs / netboot posts I feel i wrote poorly though. I mean i cover everything, but i should have written them like the USB boot guide, which is much shorter, showing multiple ways to achieve the end goal, and generically
Aug 06 21:26:39 <m_billybob> I struggled for a long time trying to make those post as concise as possible as wel as more generic
Aug 06 21:30:07 <m_billybob> I should probably rewrite them, problem with that is that i'll want to test to make absolutely sure the steps do work
Aug 06 21:30:17 <cde> it is well explained I think
Aug 06 21:30:23 <m_billybob> maybe ill do that this week some time
Aug 06 21:30:40 <m_billybob> thanks cde appreciated.
Aug 06 21:30:55 <m_billybob> still i think i can do better :)
Aug 06 21:31:04 <tolip> welp, I got plenty to keep me entertained for a while, THANK YOU FOR YOUR HELP !!!    (I'm sure I'll be back) lol :)
Aug 06 21:31:14 <m_billybob> tolip working ?
Aug 06 21:31:45 <Vaizki> tolip: sorry only one support ticket per day
Aug 06 21:32:34 <m_billybob> Vaizki, then the bbb must be submerged into water to surpress firther progress ?
Aug 06 21:32:41 <m_billybob> further*
Aug 06 21:33:07 <m_billybob> I still giggle at that comment, yeap im silly
Aug 06 21:33:28 <tolip> gotta dig out a ladder to get to my router or switch so I have not done anything yet. I'll report back whenst I
Aug 06 21:34:00 <tolip> can report yay or nay on progress
Aug 06 21:40:48 <Vaizki> m_billybob: it does work you know.
Aug 06 21:46:20 <m_billybob> Vaizki except me knowing what i do, i unplug is, wait for it to cool off, put it in water remove it, then douse it with alcohol. let it sit utnil fully dried off
Aug 06 21:46:51 <m_billybob> we sometimes wash PCB's in the dishwasher here.
Aug 06 21:47:07 <m_billybob> PCBA's to be exact
Aug 06 21:48:15 <m_billybob> so no perminent surpression but it'd still surpress progress for a day or two maybe
Aug 06 21:48:38 <kfoltman> m_billybob: how about dousing it with alcohol and setting it on fire?
Aug 06 21:48:48 <m_billybob> heh
Aug 06 21:49:13 <m_billybob> think i could think of cheaper / easier ways to "surpress progress" ;)
Aug 06 21:49:37 <m_billybob> a hamer comes to mind.
Aug 06 21:50:00 <kfoltman> just give it to me, I surely won't make any progress with it
Aug 06 21:50:02 <m_billybob> think some guy early on after the bbb was released actually did that
Aug 06 21:50:16 <kfoltman> yes, I remember some forum thread or something like that
Aug 06 21:50:29 <m_billybob> he broke the board up into pieces, and Gerald lol said baggy the pieces and we'll RMA it lol
Aug 06 21:50:37 <kfoltman> bbb microsd slot not working -> use a hammer
Aug 06 21:50:44 <m_billybob> lol yeah
Aug 06 21:51:27 <kfoltman> well, screw microsd, but if uart pins weren't working, I'd probably do that ;)
Aug 06 21:51:49 <kfoltman> ALL HAIL UART
Aug 06 21:51:54 <m_billybob> the project we have in mind uses all uarts so yeah id tend to agree
Aug 06 21:51:57 <ds2> ubuntu is an infestation
Aug 06 21:52:02 * mranostay did it get more canadian in here?
Aug 06 21:52:09 <mranostay> hi mag :)
Aug 06 21:53:45 <mag> hi mranostay
Aug 06 21:53:55 <m_billybob> I know some people who have been using linux / unix for years, and they use ubuntu. the reason for them is simple. they want an OS they dont have to mess with. They just want to use it, and not work at getting it to work.
Aug 06 21:54:12 <m_billybob> so in some respect i can understandthat, but its definately not for me
Aug 06 21:54:14 <mru> that's precisely why I shun ubuntu
Aug 06 21:54:24 <mru> I want something that just works
Aug 06 21:54:42 <kfoltman> mru: just take ubuntu and apply it in reverse
Aug 06 21:54:43 <mru> for _my_ definition of work
Aug 06 21:54:50 <m_billybob> works the way you want it to work id imagine
Aug 06 21:55:11 <m_billybob> me, i work at making thigns work my way
Aug 06 21:55:14 <cde> urm: just take reverse and apply it in ubuntu
Aug 06 21:55:33 <kfoltman> well, ubuntu only just works if your usage patterns follow Shuttleworth's to a tee
Aug 06 21:55:36 <m_billybob> ive had all kidns of issues with ubuntu so you dotn need to convince me
Aug 06 21:56:01 <tolip> OK, I'm ssh'd in now, thx for the help so far  :)
Aug 06 21:56:03 <m_billybob> i tried it early on. and a few years after that
Aug 06 21:56:10 <m_billybob> tolip excellent
Aug 06 21:56:11 <mranostay> to know ubuntu is to know pain
Aug 06 21:56:27 <tolip> can I export the DISPLAY to my linux box?
Aug 06 21:56:35 <mru> tolip: ssh -X
Aug 06 21:56:40 <kfoltman> ubuntu is a best example of "history repeats itself, as a farce"
Aug 06 21:56:40 <m_billybob> yes you can.
Aug 06 21:57:14 <kfoltman> tolip: is your linux box in Iran?
Aug 06 21:57:17 <cde> kfoltman: at least we get a good laugh out of it
Aug 06 21:57:29 <m_billybob> I think ubuntu is probably abotu as close as Linux can get to Windows, in many respects.
Aug 06 21:57:41 <m_billybob> meaning not exactly a good thing
Aug 06 21:58:04 <mru> ubuntu is gradually edging away from everything you'd normally think of as linux
Aug 06 21:58:18 <m_billybob> actually though now that im thinking about it windows is probably better than ubuntu in some respects too
Aug 06 21:58:30 <mru> upstart, unity, mir... it all fits the pattern
Aug 06 21:58:33 <m_billybob> most user expeprience stuff
Aug 06 21:58:34 <cde> if ubuntu moves as forward, it will rewrite every piece of software in existence, including itself
Aug 06 21:58:51 <mru> ubuntu is fucking ugly by default
Aug 06 21:58:58 <mru> windows at least has decent font rendering (now)
Aug 06 21:59:13 <cde> mru: you can tweak that, with gnome-tweak-tool
Aug 06 21:59:22 <mru> yes, but the defaults are dreadful
Aug 06 21:59:28 <m_billybob> also dont have to worry too much when it comes time to upgrade, but imho its a bad idea to upgrade OS's
Aug 06 21:59:34 <mru> _way_ too much antialiasing
Aug 06 22:00:10 <m_billybob> not updates, but updating from one version of an OS to another
Aug 06 22:00:19 <mru> that's a broken concept
Aug 06 22:00:30 <ds2> ubuntu is unusable by default.
Aug 06 22:00:54 <mru> ds2: as are windows and osx, but they're not half as ugly
Aug 06 22:01:03 <m_billybob> out of curiosity what is everyone's here favored distro ?
Aug 06 22:01:11 <mru> ok, the winxp default theme is ugly as fuck
Aug 06 22:01:14 <m_billybob> not meant to spark zealotry just curious
Aug 06 22:01:15 <ds2> the arejust as ugly
Aug 06 22:01:26 <kfoltman> m_billybob: ZX Spectrum 48 ROM
Aug 06 22:01:28 <ds2> I want a since simple tvtwm/fvwm setup
Aug 06 22:01:35 <cde> m_billybob: mandrake
Aug 06 22:01:41 <ds2> s/since/nice/
Aug 06 22:01:42 <kfoltman> m_billybob: never needed an upgrade
Aug 06 22:01:56 <m_billybob> mandrake, truly ?
Aug 06 22:02:04 <mru> that still exists?
Aug 06 22:02:10 <m_billybob> was wodnering the same myself
Aug 06 22:02:16 <m_billybob> wondering even
Aug 06 22:02:31 <kfoltman> it was renamed to "a distro that drives man crazy" or something like that
Aug 06 22:02:32 <cde> I was kidding. still have the 8.1 version on CD though. one day I'll give it a kick in a VM
Aug 06 22:02:32 <m_billybob> mandrake has been aroudn since the late 90's ?
Aug 06 22:03:10 <m_billybob> heh
Aug 06 22:03:18 <mru> has or hasn't?
Aug 06 22:03:25 <cde> m_billybob: at the time I decided it was unusable, and went with Debian instead
Aug 06 22:03:28 <m_billybob> it has been i know ive installed it a few times
Aug 06 22:03:38 <m_billybob> well dont know if it is still aroudn now but yeah
Aug 06 22:05:30 <m_billybob> dont know why really nut ive never really been keen on redhat or anythign based on it
Aug 06 22:05:38 <m_billybob> but ive*
Aug 06 22:06:07 <mru> I was never keen on rh either
Aug 06 22:06:22 <ds2> SLS
Aug 06 22:06:30 <ds2> MCC
Aug 06 22:06:31 <mru> and the broken gcc they shipped in one release didn't exactly improve their image
Aug 06 22:06:54 <mru> another release had a busted perl
Aug 06 22:06:59 <cde> mru: that dreaded 2.96 version? ecgs if I remember well
Aug 06 22:07:13 <mru> yes, 2.96
Aug 06 22:07:33 <mru> 2.95 was the post-egcs unified release
Aug 06 22:07:48 <mru> 2.96 was a redhat hacked-up version with some added c++ "features"
Aug 06 22:08:00 <ds2> wasn't redhat the gcc maintainer at that time?
Aug 06 22:08:08 <mru> and when they broke the 'sort' command, well...
Aug 06 22:08:11 <m_billybob> mru, yeah but ive seen bugs creep into gcc on  my favored distro. Dont recall if it was testing or stable branch but im thinking it was the stable branch i expeprienced gcc issues
Aug 06 22:08:13 <tolip> mru:I shh'd in  with -X, it complains. what do I need in .Xauthority  on the BBB (already did the xhost + stuff on the PC)
Aug 06 22:08:33 <mru> tolip: try ssh -Y
Aug 06 22:08:44 <mru> and you don't need to mess with xhost
Aug 06 22:08:47 <mru> that's dangerous
Aug 06 22:08:52 <ds2> Mmmmmm xhost +
Aug 06 22:09:00 <ds2> we are all friends on the network :D
Aug 06 22:09:21 <m_billybob> heh
Aug 06 22:09:22 <ds2> su 'keystrokes' es mi 'keystrokes'
Aug 06 22:09:30 <m_billybob> ds, until someone farts ;)
Aug 06 22:09:35 <cde> the worst feature lately was how they broke memcpy, see https://lwn.net/Articles/414467/
Aug 06 22:09:43 <mranostay> xhost +  for the NSA
Aug 06 22:09:52 <mru> cde: that's _not_ a glibc bug
Aug 06 22:10:08 <cde> it's not, right
Aug 06 22:10:17 <kfoltman> memmove or GTFO.
Aug 06 22:10:19 <mru> and I've seen that behaviour from memcpy many years before on other systems
Aug 06 22:10:53 <m_billybob> and they've been contracted by TI to build the next mspgcc i guess
Aug 06 22:10:53 <mru> I have no sympathy for people complaining about that one
Aug 06 22:10:59 * m_billybob cries
Aug 06 22:11:03 <ds2> why are people still using glibc?
Aug 06 22:11:07 <kfoltman> mru: except sometimes it's someone else's code that magically stops working
Aug 06 22:11:17 <tolip> lol, I did add an IP address after xhost + (I _AM_ a fool but not in this respect)
Aug 06 22:11:18 <mru> ds2: because it works better than anything else
Aug 06 22:11:19 <ds2> glibc has been so F'ing broken it is not funny
Aug 06 22:11:32 <ds2> mru: you use the term works loosely
Aug 06 22:11:35 <mru> kfoltman: I sympathise with those affected by broken code
Aug 06 22:11:48 <mru> but blame should be directed where it belongs
Aug 06 22:12:05 <ds2> when you use -static and it still loads .so files, it is broken.
Aug 06 22:12:11 <ds2> no ifs, ands, or buts about it
Aug 06 22:12:28 <mru> yes, that is broken if you need a static link
Aug 06 22:13:05 <mru> so it's not suitable for your very narrow use case
Aug 06 22:13:44 <ds2> i don't find it that narrow
Aug 06 22:13:52 <mru> kfoltman: almost every gcc release exposes bugs in some program or other
Aug 06 22:14:00 <mru> that does not mean we should stop improving gcc
Aug 06 22:14:06 <ds2> but then people also consider libtools a good thing so prehaps...
Aug 06 22:14:19 <mru> eeeew
Aug 06 22:14:24 <m_billybob> i actually like the toolchain a lot
Aug 06 22:14:29 <kfoltman> ds2: those people are mad
Aug 06 22:14:42 <ds2> when madness is the norm...
Aug 06 22:14:47 <m_billybob> mru, OR we could all just stick with CL.exe ;)
Aug 06 22:14:50 <ds2> sanity is madness
Aug 06 22:15:07 <kfoltman> CL.exe is VC?
Aug 06 22:15:19 <ds2> MSC
Aug 06 22:15:22 <m_billybob> ms's c compiler
Aug 06 22:15:28 <kfoltman> the old one?
Aug 06 22:15:32 <mru> oh the horror
Aug 06 22:15:35 <ds2> predates VC by ages
Aug 06 22:15:38 <mru> old, new, doesn't matter
Aug 06 22:15:40 <m_billybob> new one is stil lthe sme name afaik
Aug 06 22:15:50 <mru> it was a couple of years ago at least
Aug 06 22:16:11 <ds2> I was using cl derivatives back in the late 80's
Aug 06 22:16:22 <kfoltman> I managed to avoid win32 for a few years, then used mingw for some quick and dirty stuff
Aug 06 22:16:53 <mru> I'm pleased to say I've _never_ had to program for windows in any way
Aug 06 22:17:08 <m_billybob> my beginning years learnign C was all WIN32_LEAN_AND_MEAN
Aug 06 22:17:13 <mru> and certainly not done so voluntarily
Aug 06 22:17:13 <ds2> cl isn't just windows
Aug 06 22:17:15 <ds2> it was DOS
Aug 06 22:17:39 <mru> never used it there either
Aug 06 22:17:41 <ds2> with 'em small, medium, large, and huge memory models!
Aug 06 22:17:52 <kfoltman> flat model or die
Aug 06 22:17:53 <mru> borland had those too
Aug 06 22:18:17 <mru> used to run borland c 2.0 on an old 286
Aug 06 22:18:36 <m_billybob> eeek
Aug 06 22:19:11 <tolip> OK so now I'm in via ssh -Y. I expect something to show up on my X11 display???
Aug 06 22:19:15 <m_billybob> probably predates my coding experience lol
Aug 06 22:19:24 <kfoltman> tolip: run an xterm or something?
Aug 06 22:19:38 <kblin> I've got a cl shell script somewhere
Aug 06 22:19:51 <cde> thank god for python
Aug 06 22:19:53 <kblin> that runs cl.exe via wine
Aug 06 22:19:56 <Vaizki> tasm!
Aug 06 22:20:01 <mru> masm
Aug 06 22:20:03 <cde> tasm32!
Aug 06 22:20:10 <kblin> to build wine test cases
Aug 06 22:20:18 <m_billybob> i remember those
Aug 06 22:20:29 <tolip> I ran ssh -Y from a terminal (xterm equiv)
Aug 06 22:20:29 <mru> some crazy people made a clang-based frontend converting c99 to ms-c
Aug 06 22:20:30 <ds2> kblin: how old of a cl.exe can wine run?
Aug 06 22:20:41 <m_billybob> heh i started off coding with qbasic
Aug 06 22:20:50 <mru> ds2: wine should run anything 32-bit
Aug 06 22:20:58 <kfoltman> 32-bit, meh
Aug 06 22:21:08 <mru> m_billybob: I got rid of qbasic rather quickly
Aug 06 22:21:10 <kfoltman> 16-bit is where the real power is
Aug 06 22:21:10 <kblin> ds2: dunno, I think I was using vc 2003 or somesuch
Aug 06 22:21:19 <kfoltman> mostly the power to drive you insane, but still
Aug 06 22:21:38 <ds2> ah so no ancient dos ones
Aug 06 22:21:38 <m_billybob> mru i jumped from qbasic into a short stint writtign assembly
Aug 06 22:21:44 <m_billybob> and then into C
Aug 06 22:22:05 <mru> I never did 16-bit x86 asm
Aug 06 22:22:06 <m_billybob> but, im a hobbyist, so not the calibur some of you are
Aug 06 22:22:12 <tolip> I tried it with 'xterm' no change
Aug 06 22:22:12 <mru> probably saved my sanity
Aug 06 22:22:25 <kfoltman> m_billybob: well, I went from Spectrum BASIC to Z80 assembly to Turbo Basic to 8086 assembly to Turbo Pascal to 80386 assembly to C++ to C ;)
Aug 06 22:22:47 <mru> m_billybob: I was about 12 at the time, hardly a professional
Aug 06 22:23:01 <m_billybob> not a bad progresion really except you did the C/C++ thing backwards ;)
Aug 06 22:23:02 <kblin> not sure, I think wine has the 16bit libs as well
Aug 06 22:23:37 <m_billybob> mru, and yet im still a hobbyist, not sure i could program for a living day in day out
Aug 06 22:23:38 <kfoltman> I still get paid for C++, not for C ;)
Aug 06 22:23:47 <tolip> ok, got it to open an xterm on the host, can I see the BBB gui on the host?
Aug 06 22:23:52 <m_billybob> i think it'd drive me crazy and that'd be a short trip ;)
Aug 06 22:24:04 <mru> m_billybob: oh, I don't program 'day in day out'
Aug 06 22:24:12 <mru> only for a while in the morning, the rest of the day I spend on irc
Aug 06 22:24:27 <kfoltman> work/life balance and so on
Aug 06 22:24:36 <m_billybob> hehehe all good
Aug 06 22:24:37 <cde> mru: what do you program? just being curious
Aug 06 22:25:17 <mru> 'what' in what sense?
Aug 06 22:25:27 <kfoltman> m_billybob: BTW the ability to read x86 asm is sometimes useful even in normal programming job
Aug 06 22:25:31 <cde> mru: yes, what in what sense
Aug 06 22:25:34 <ds2> mru writes java code daily
Aug 06 22:25:38 <mru> haha
Aug 06 22:25:40 * ds2 ducks and runs
Aug 06 22:25:48 <cde> there's no shame in that
Aug 06 22:25:49 <mru> kfoltman: reading is always easier than writing
Aug 06 22:25:54 <mru> cde: there is
Aug 06 22:25:56 <m_billybob> kfoltman yes sir i know this. you did yourself a huge favor starting off in it after basic
Aug 06 22:25:59 <kfoltman> mru: I would say the opposite, but that's just me
Aug 06 22:26:05 * baboo is evacuating the planet because of java
Aug 06 22:26:16 <cde> mru: the first step is to admit you write java code
Aug 06 22:26:17 * kfoltman thinks ds2 earned a place on 26+26
Aug 06 22:26:38 <Vaizki> surely java is dying.. tapering off because it has already infested and killed most IT projects, the remaining ones are immune to it now
Aug 06 22:26:38 <ds2> btdt
Aug 06 22:26:40 <tolip> lol, I still remember some Z80 hex (C9=Return)
Aug 06 22:26:52 <mru> java is the new cobol
Aug 06 22:26:52 <kfoltman> or C3 CALL
Aug 06 22:26:58 <Vaizki> some virulent but fairly benign strains like javascript left
Aug 06 22:27:03 <mru> tolip: I'll never forget c9
Aug 06 22:27:07 <kfoltman> mru: I'm pretty sure cobol is the new cobol
Aug 06 22:27:28 <mru> Vaizki: javascript has nothing to do with java
Aug 06 22:27:29 <kblin> Vaizki: apart from the name, javascript is not at all like java
Aug 06 22:27:29 <m_billybob> or cobol is stil cobol i get what mru is saying though
Aug 06 22:27:43 <m_billybob> somewhat in syntax maybe
Aug 06 22:27:48 <m_billybob> as in C-like
Aug 06 22:27:48 <mru> not even that
Aug 06 22:27:48 <tolip> I
Aug 06 22:27:50 <kfoltman> cobol is immortal
Aug 06 22:27:55 <cde> J
Aug 06 22:27:58 <mru> K
Aug 06 22:28:22 <mru> anyhow, I mostly program in C and assembly
Aug 06 22:28:27 <cde> mru: see, we're only a letter apart
Aug 06 22:28:42 <tolip> I bought a Z80 for my C64  (I was working at a Kaypro vendor @ the time) so I could run CP/M on it
Aug 06 22:28:44 <kfoltman> m_billybob: well, it's a language where all the derpy corpo code is being written, so it is a new cobol in a way
Aug 06 22:28:50 <Vaizki> ok ok ;) and yes I've done stuff in both Java and JS
Aug 06 22:29:13 <baboo> js is my favorite language
Aug 06 22:29:14 <kfoltman> where -> in which
Aug 06 22:29:25 <kfoltman> js is not a language, it's a set of hacks, like perl
Aug 06 22:29:29 <m_billybob> kfoltman but is there a cobol 2012 ? even ADA has a year/name monicer
Aug 06 22:29:41 <kfoltman> m_billybob: NFC alas
Aug 06 22:29:46 <kblin> kfoltman: very useful hacks, though
Aug 06 22:29:48 <kfoltman> or perhaps not "alas"
Aug 06 22:30:01 <mru> if hell turns out to be real, I'll probably end up there for my stint teaching java some 12 years ago
Aug 06 22:30:15 <tolip> welp, I ran 'startx' on the BBB expecting a desktop on my host. Do I have my expectations set too high???
Aug 06 22:30:21 <mru> yes
Aug 06 22:30:38 <kfoltman> kblin: if the language lacks decent support for anything, any hack comes useful
Aug 06 22:30:41 <ds2> why in blazes would you expect that to do that?
Aug 06 22:30:45 <Vaizki> expectation management: shoot it before it hatches
Aug 06 22:30:56 <kfoltman> haha
Aug 06 22:31:07 <cde> tolip: I would recommend you install the X vnc server and use that. works very well for a headless box
Aug 06 22:31:07 <m_billybob> lol
Aug 06 22:31:24 <kblin> kfoltman: with the v8 runtime, I don't actually miss much
Aug 06 22:31:41 <kblin> kfoltman: browser implementations are a bit lacking, I agree
Aug 06 22:31:49 <Vaizki> Estimates put the number of business transactions done in COBOL at between 60 and 80 per cent of all transactions performed worldwide. The number is significantly higher for financial transactions.
Aug 06 22:32:00 <Vaizki> damn.. I want a job spewing estimates
Aug 06 22:32:19 <m_billybob> have to say though, the progress of the state of programming now days is far better than it was 12-13 years ago
Aug 06 22:32:20 <kfoltman> kblin: there's a reason the runtimes for js are so complicated
Aug 06 22:32:24 <tolip> ds2: I would expect that because if I did the same thing on a linux box with the DISPLAY attributes set that is what would happen.
Aug 06 22:32:40 <ds2> go read the startx script
Aug 06 22:32:41 <kfoltman> Vaizki: I think HFT made that statistic invalid anyway
Aug 06 22:32:48 <m_billybob> far more information out there, libraries abound . . . not to mention language improvements etc
Aug 06 22:32:49 <mru> tolip: wrong expectation
Aug 06 22:33:05 <tolip> i figgered as much
Aug 06 22:33:08 <Vaizki> m_billybob: can't say the same thing about quality of code though
Aug 06 22:33:24 <Vaizki> especially now that everything is either on the internet or updateable over the internet
Aug 06 22:33:25 <kfoltman> tolip: startx starts an X server and the desktop environment; what you want to do is to do things to your existing X server
Aug 06 22:33:33 <Vaizki> ok it boots, release it
Aug 06 22:33:34 <JasonHale> I have BBB v0A5C w/bonescript v0.2.2 and cannot create Cloud9 IDE projects using Mac(Safari) or Win7 (Firefox) hosts.  When saving a file, the tab shows the name of the file but never recovers.  I cannot see the files listed in my project.  I get the spinning wheel and it never recovers.
Aug 06 22:33:37 <cde> tolip: try it the other way round, start the listening X server on the BBB then connect to it on your other box
Aug 06 22:33:52 <m_billybob> Vaizki, this is what happens when you educate people in college with a language such as java . . .who then start to call themselves developers
Aug 06 22:33:52 <tolip> k
Aug 06 22:34:18 <kblin> JasonHale: I think I had the best results with chrome
Aug 06 22:34:25 <baboo> me too
Aug 06 22:34:33 <m_billybob> quality of teaching in the last 10-15 years has largely gone down hill too
Aug 06 22:34:39 <ds2> the answer there is to not hire CS majors
Aug 06 22:34:43 <kblin> JasonHale: but I ended up writing my bonescript code in a standalone node module
Aug 06 22:34:48 <kfoltman> m_billybob: so did quality of students
Aug 06 22:34:49 <ds2> it avoids the damaged done by Java
Aug 06 22:35:04 <Vaizki> depends on the school
Aug 06 22:35:18 <kfoltman> m_billybob: the year above my year was insanely more mature/patient/smart than my year, and then it went really downhill
Aug 06 22:35:26 <cde> well in any case Java is no worse than say Python
Aug 06 22:35:27 <Vaizki> when I was at uni they started teaching Java to everyone else except CS majors who still worked with Scheme ;)
Aug 06 22:35:30 <m_billybob> ds2 well just a for instance, MIT teaches python in introductory classes. perfect ? maybe not but atleast they learn proper indentation ;)
Aug 06 22:35:54 <baboo> true
Aug 06 22:36:05 <ds2> m_billybob: depends on how they teach it... the classes should not be about a language
Aug 06 22:36:14 <m_billybob> so yeah i am sure other top nothc school teach using "proper" tools / languages too
Aug 06 22:36:20 <ds2> teaching a language in a college is stupid to say the least
Aug 06 22:36:26 <kfoltman> current java is not that bad, I think J2EE was the peak badness
Aug 06 22:36:35 <ds2> teach the concept. then use a language in a lab
Aug 06 22:36:43 <m_billybob> i dont use JVM's period
Aug 06 22:36:44 <mru> teaching a language for its own sake is bad
Aug 06 22:36:53 <mru> using a real language for teaching concepts is good
Aug 06 22:36:55 <m_billybob> wel they use python as a teaching tool
Aug 06 22:36:55 <ds2> to teach a language on that level is moronic.
Aug 06 22:36:59 <m_billybob> i should have said
Aug 06 22:37:05 <m_billybob> not the language so much its self
Aug 06 22:37:11 <baboo> in my old school, we used a Logo language turtle, like the python turtles
Aug 06 22:37:26 <ds2> my school did something similar
Aug 06 22:37:56 <baboo> nothing like js
Aug 06 22:38:17 <baboo> there's square brackets instead of quotes
Aug 06 22:38:21 <Vaizki> I like dynamically typed languages yes but still stuff done in Python or JS.. you can make a 100 different typos that won't be exposed until runtime hits a specific branch
Aug 06 22:38:26 <m_billybob> ds2, mru, i do get what you're both saying though, this is somethign ive self taught myself over years of  reading talking with others, and finding what works for me
Aug 06 22:38:32 <mru> I was a TA in CS at the peak of the java hype
Aug 06 22:39:26 <kblin> Vaizki: that's where code analysis helps
Aug 06 22:39:46 <m_billybob> i find picking up a new language pretty easy so long as i have a decent language reference
Aug 06 22:39:59 <kfoltman> try that with haskell
Aug 06 22:40:01 <kfoltman> or prolog
Aug 06 22:40:06 <m_billybob> usually its  some obscure scriptign language
Aug 06 22:40:16 <Vaizki> kblin: I would prefer being able to write stricter typed python at will
Aug 06 22:40:34 <Vaizki> and I don't mean peppering code with assert type of traps
Aug 06 22:40:41 <m_billybob> prolog is what ? i know the name but not the language
Aug 06 22:40:51 <ds2> blah asserts
Aug 06 22:40:54 <m_billybob> sounds verilog ish
Aug 06 22:41:01 <kfoltman> no, prolog is prolog
Aug 06 22:41:02 * m_billybob doesnt know
Aug 06 22:41:08 <kfoltman> different paradigm
Aug 06 22:41:20 <kblin> Vaizki: duck typing is super-convenient for testing
Aug 06 22:42:07 <Vaizki> kblin: yes, but I do production stuff with Python. a lot of it. and would prefer to later go back and stronger-type it.
Aug 06 22:42:23 <kblin> whoops, SIGWIFE
Aug 06 22:42:36 <cde> Vaizki: I don't get it. Python is strongly typed
Aug 06 22:42:55 <cde> although, True+1
Aug 06 22:42:58 <kfoltman> cde: well, objects are pretty much duck typed, or at least most of the time
Aug 06 22:43:18 <kfoltman> there's no concept of strict interface, or at least wasn't in 2.x
Aug 06 22:43:39 <cde> kfoltman, duck typing != (strong||weak) typing
Aug 06 22:43:54 <m_billybob> C is usually my favored language
Aug 06 22:43:56 <Vaizki> well I need to sleep, sorry for kicking off the discussion and bailing out :)
Aug 06 22:43:56 <kfoltman> it is stronger typed than perl
Aug 06 22:44:04 <m_billybob> if i feel i have a choice
Aug 06 22:44:07 <JasonHale> Yes, I can run javascript in standalone mode.  For example, I can use the BBB tutorial with the script examples.  In the LED tutorial, the LEDs are responding to the script (ALL ON, ALL OFF, Restore)...  I guess I will try C9IDE in Chrome...  Thanks.
Aug 06 22:45:14 <ds2> 7
Aug 06 22:45:19 <m_billybob> where there a question in there somewhere ?
Aug 06 22:45:25 <m_billybob> was there*
Aug 06 22:52:01 <ds2> is tehre a way to get gcc to show me the equiv of what should be in the specs file when it is "Using built-in specs"?
Aug 06 22:52:17 <ds2> n/m
Aug 06 22:54:17 <mru> -dumpspecs ?
Aug 06 22:54:22 <ds2> found that
Aug 06 22:54:31 <ds2> used to looking at the spec file
Aug 06 22:55:52 <m_billybob> is there an actual gcc channel on this network ?
Aug 06 22:55:58 <m_billybob> havent even looked
Aug 06 22:56:21 <m_billybob> I could stand to learn more abotu the linaro gcc toolchain9s)
Aug 06 23:00:55 <m_billybob> seems that there is according to google.
Aug 06 23:24:01 <wmat> tcort: did anything ever come of the uboot issue preventing me from testing your code?
Aug 06 23:30:19 <tcort> wmat: one of our main Minix/arm guys is away at the moment, but I did get one response when I asked what might be wrong. https://groups.google.com/d/msg/minix3/G_5K1A9k6c4/LUGpfY2oT5MJ
Aug 06 23:33:33 <tcort> wmat: this is what a normal boot up of Minix looks like on the xM http://pastebin.com/eHfDaFF5
Aug 06 23:33:55 <wmat> tcort: ok, i'll see if I can find some time to think about it later
Aug 06 23:45:55 <ds2> what is the licensing of Minix like thesedays?
Aug 06 23:46:24 <mru> tanenbaum secret license
Aug 06 23:47:02 <ds2> is that a OSL recognized free software license? ;)
Aug 06 23:47:56 <tcort> ds2: BSD-style license http://git.minix3.org/?p=minix.git;a=blob;f=LICENSE;hb=HEAD
Aug 06 23:49:50 <ds2> tcort: does minix use the MMU nowadays?
Aug 06 23:50:12 <tcort> yes
Aug 06 23:52:07 <Wayne__> the short version of my question: can the 6/20 official angstrom for bbb boot without a microsd card after flashing?
Aug 06 23:53:18 <wmat> tcort: unfortunately, my board is booting from the sdcard, so there's something wrong with your minix image. Have you booted it on a BB-xm?
Aug 06 23:55:27 <tcort> wmat: yes. I'm using a Rev C xM for testing. Do you have another SD card you can test with? The Minix mmc driver only supports cards with CSD version 2.0, but that should give a specific warning if you use an unsupported card.
Aug 06 23:56:16 <wmat> tcort: I do, but I don't think that's the issue
Aug 06 23:56:20 <wmat> tcort: mmc list - lists available devices
Aug 06 23:56:21 <wmat> reading uImage
Aug 06 23:56:21 <wmat> ** Unable to read file uImage **
Aug 06 23:56:21 <wmat> Wrong Image Format for bootm command
Aug 06 23:56:21 <wmat> ERROR: can't get kernel image!
Aug 06 23:59:24 <tcort> something is definitely wrong, but I don't knoe what / how to fix it. It should say 'mmc list - lists available devices' then 'reading kernel.bin'
Aug 06 23:59:34 <tcort> *know
Aug 07 00:00:04 <mranostay> heh quiet the minux talk with awake av500
Aug 07 00:00:35 <mru> he has a signed CD!
Aug 07 00:00:51 <wmat> tcort: so perhaps it's not processing cmdline.txt
Aug 07 00:01:04 <wmat> mranostay: heh
Aug 07 00:01:35 <wmat> tcort: forget that
Aug 07 00:01:57 <wmat> tcort: uEnv.txt
Aug 07 00:02:05 <JasonHale> quit
Aug 07 00:02:07 <JasonHale> exit
Aug 07 00:02:09 <JasonHale> QUIT
Aug 07 00:02:11 <JasonHale> EXIT
Aug 07 00:02:21 <tcort> is the u-boot version string 'U-Boot SPL 2013.04-00278-gc87941a-dirty (Jun 25 2013 - 09:19:49)'?
Aug 07 00:02:51 <wmat> yep
Aug 07 00:02:56 <wmat> JasonHale: wtf?
Aug 07 00:07:27 <m_billybob> wmat perhaps the concept of preceeding commands with a forward slash was lost on him ?
Aug 07 00:07:36 * m_billybob shrugs
Aug 07 00:08:35 <wmat> tcort: Unknown command 'mmcbootcmd=echo'
Aug 07 00:11:23 <tcort> maybe try removing the echo command from uEnv.txt? I use the generated uEnv.txt without any problems. Here's the uEnv.txt from a working card: http://pastebin.com/fxHnqxrc
Aug 07 00:26:47 <wmat> tcort: you sure you're uboot isn't patched?  Because mine doesn't know what mmcbootcmd is.
Aug 07 00:29:19 <tcort> wmat: u-boot is patched. a patched u-boot binary is downloaded automatically by ./releasetools/arm_sdimage.sh (corresponding source is at http://git.minix3.org/?p=u-boot.git;a=summary )
Aug 07 00:35:37 <tcort> wmat: if I can compress the image well enough, I'll try to put up a known good image that you can download. it may take a little bit to compress/upload. I'll let you know.
Aug 07 00:36:00 <wmat> tcort: I'll build again in the meantime as a test
Aug 07 00:45:32 <tcort> wmat: http://tomcort.com/minix/minix_arm_sd.img.xz (44MB, uncompresses to 2GB) uncompressed image md5=2a64fb1a7ddab3a35edb1f8d265678b5
Aug 07 00:46:01 <joel_> tcort, wmat looking at above minix pastebin, it is quite intriguing how the different os components made up of different .elf and loaded independently (I guess because of micro-kernel arch?) :)
Aug 07 00:46:59 <tcort> wmat: you should be able to write that with `dd if=minix_arm_sd.img of=/dev/sdX bs=1M oflag=direct` (changing sdX to the right device file).
Aug 07 00:47:19 <ds2> maybe it is time to move to minix
Aug 07 00:47:25 <ds2> none of that dt crap there
Aug 07 00:47:41 <joel_> sched.elf vfs.elf :) . heh
Aug 07 00:48:04 <joel_> ds2, then no overlays for the capes
Aug 07 00:48:17 <ds2> who cares about capes
Aug 07 00:48:24 <joel_> heh, not me btw
Aug 07 00:48:34 <ds2> I use expansion boards
Aug 07 00:48:46 <ds2> keeps my I2C buses free
Aug 07 00:49:42 <joel_> how?
Aug 07 00:50:02 <joel_> expansion boards don't need dt?
Aug 07 00:50:49 <joel_> on a different note, I can't but admire my spi display + protocape board with 8 wires neatly hidden under the board itself
Aug 07 00:51:00 <wmat> tcort: nope, same error
Aug 07 00:51:13 <joel_> time to call it a day! bbt
Aug 07 00:52:05 <ds2> not if you use a boardfile :D
Aug 07 00:52:49 <joel_> dt can keep i2c free too, just set status of i2c nodes in dt to disable
Aug 07 00:54:25 <wmat> tcort: just tested an Angstrom image, which boots right up fine
Aug 07 00:56:36 <tcort> wmat: I'm all out of ideas. Maybe it's an issue with our u-boot changes on Rev A2. Our u-boot/arm guru is on vacation until next week, and I don't know too much about solving boot problems.
Aug 07 00:57:08 <wmat> tcort: ok, i have a couple of other idea I'm going to try
Aug 07 00:57:32 <tcort> ok
Aug 07 01:11:19 <joel_> ds2, creating board file is easy, just hack board-generic set and call your custom function in the mach init ;)
Aug 07 01:11:52 <ds2> no, I am avoiding the whole I2C eeprom crap
Aug 07 01:12:16 <ds2> hence it is no longer a cape
Aug 07 01:12:33 <SilicaGel> koen i have a question about this  https://plus.google.com/100242854243155306943/posts
Aug 07 01:12:45 * SilicaGel Do Not Eat (btw)
Aug 07 01:13:05 <SpeedEvil> i2c eproms are damn near free
Aug 07 01:13:21 <ds2> I2C busses and addresses of them are not
Aug 07 01:13:22 <joel_> how does an i2c eeprom prevent board file or dt from calling platform_* functions
Aug 07 01:13:28 <ds2> it is not a cost thing
Aug 07 01:14:19 <joel_> my spi protocape has no eeprom and happily instantiates through dt
Aug 07 01:15:03 <ds2> then it isn't a cape per the SRM :P
Aug 07 01:15:10 <ds2> it is merely some random expansion board
Aug 07 01:15:20 <SilicaGel> could it be a crepe?
Aug 07 01:15:27 <joel_> who reads the srm these days? :P
Aug 07 01:16:48 <joel_> ah so I get what you mean, freaking capes are supposed to be enumerated only through eeprom.. well that makes the most sense
Aug 07 01:17:06 <joel_> however check overlays, they also have some automatic way of force loading and skipping the eeprom crap
Aug 07 01:17:16 <SilicaGel> as opposed to crepes, which are enumerated through various toppings
Aug 07 01:17:22 <joel_> +1
Aug 07 01:17:24 <ds2> capes are suppose to use the I2C buses in a specific way. I need those buses/pins for other stuff hence I don't do capes
Aug 07 01:17:24 <OutOfSpace> Happy Birthday BeagleBoard! Mine has been eating alot of MBS, any scripts to cleanup and remove cache files/temp files?
Aug 07 01:17:57 <ds2> I don't see the point in overlays... just more layers of crap to make things bigger
Aug 07 01:18:13 <ds2> there is always the rowboat kernel ;)
Aug 07 01:18:14 * ds2 ducks
Aug 07 01:26:09 <m_billybob> good luck with that :P
Aug 07 01:27:05 <OutOfSpace> hey m_billybob, is there a file directory/cache in angstrom where temp files are stored? I have 78mb of free space and have very little installed on the board
Aug 07 01:27:09 <m_billybob> But who knows, maybe we'll get a reasonable branch od "ds2's android" out of it ;)
Aug 07 01:27:14 <m_billybob> of
Aug 07 01:27:48 <m_billybob> i dont really know much bout angstrom but i would assume so
Aug 07 01:27:50 <ds2> that branch already exists
Aug 07 01:27:59 <m_billybob> it does ?
Aug 07 01:28:22 <ds2> BBW + LCD +TS+ whole mess of sensors  in there
Aug 07 01:28:42 <ds2> need to get the ALS support going though
Aug 07 01:28:44 <m_billybob> cool
Aug 07 01:28:53 <ds2> :D
Aug 07 01:29:37 <m_billybob> well i was speakign in context of the BBB but sounds good. HOnestly i am not interrrested in android much myself. might be if some things were different
Aug 07 01:30:31 <m_billybob> nothing with the "distro" its self
Aug 07 01:31:06 <ds2> the rowboat kernel is just a kernel
Aug 07 01:31:14 <ds2> u don't have to use Android with it
Aug 07 01:31:28 <ds2> the BBB has HW issues, hence it isn't used for that yet
Aug 07 01:31:48 <m_billybob> drm / SGX ?
Aug 07 01:32:16 <m_billybob> not sure what else would be wrong with it. but no one says i need to know everything.
Aug 07 01:33:06 <ds2> no
Aug 07 01:33:30 <ds2> blasted eMMC eatting up pins I have other uses for plus a different pinout for batteries
Aug 07 01:34:03 <m_billybob> ah yeah eMMC uses up how many pins ? 8 ?
Aug 07 01:34:11 <m_billybob> actually i could check now
Aug 07 01:35:11 <ds2> it uses ones I have other uses for
Aug 07 01:37:03 <m_billybob> love random router resets
Aug 07 01:37:09 <m_billybob> anyhow looks like 10
Aug 07 01:39:52 <ds2> it should be possible to force it to use 7 less
Aug 07 01:40:36 <m_billybob> all of those say unclaimed but i dont get how that works yet
Aug 07 02:56:15 <mrpackethead> trolls
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Wed Aug 07 02:59:58 2013