**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat Jun 28 02:59:58 2014
Jun 28 03:33:37 <Deepak> hi
Jun 28 03:37:57 <shay_shay> yo
Jun 28 03:38:58 <lmgtfy> ls
Jun 28 03:39:05 <lmgtfy> cd ..
Jun 28 04:40:23 <shay_shay> ;g something
Jun 28 04:40:23 <lmgtfy> (shay_shay) http://www.somethingawful.com/ -- Something Awful: The Internet Makes You Stupid: "7 hours ago ... SomethingAwful.com offers daily internet news, reviews of horrible movies,
Jun 28 04:40:39 <shay_shay> ;lmgtfy something
Jun 28 04:40:39 <lmgtfy> (shay_shay) http://is.gd/L5L2FS
Jun 28 04:48:16 <elinuxer> Hi any body is there..
Jun 28 04:51:33 <elinuxer> Hi beagle..
Jun 28 04:54:59 <elinuxer> Hi beagle..i am using beaglebone black and i am trying to bring up the board using yocto with linux 3.8 ti kernel using   beaglebone-daisy-11.0.0 . If i use core-image-minimal it getting compiled using linux-yocto 3.14 kernel.
Jun 28 04:55:32 <elinuxer> but i don't want to use 3.14
Jun 28 04:55:47 <elinuxer> i want to use 3.8 stable kernel..
Jun 28 04:56:08 <elinuxer> what to do to change my kernel to 3.8
Jun 28 04:56:21 <elinuxer> please any one help me..
Jun 28 04:59:14 <shay_shay> .g yo
Jun 28 04:59:43 <shay_shay> ,g yo
Jun 28 05:02:35 <shay_shay> ,g install 3.8 kernel beaglebone black
Jun 28 05:02:35 <lmgtfy> (shay_shay) http://wiki.beyondlogic.org/index.php/BeagleBoneBlack_Building_Kernel -- BeagleBoneBlack Building Kernel - BeyondLogic: "5 days ago ... 1 Compiling the BeagleBone Black Kernel; 2 Prerequisites ... for the BeagleBone
Jun 28 05:12:09 <ds2> see yocto folks but the gist of it should be just a matter of overriding the kernel provider
Jun 28 05:15:02 <elinuxer> which layer should i use.
Jun 28 05:16:00 <elinuxer> all TI relevent kernel resides in  meta-ti/recipes-kernel layer.
Jun 28 05:17:20 <elinuxer> if i add meta-ti layer in bblayer.conf file.does not compile TI kernel ..
Jun 28 05:18:31 <elinuxer> it's getting compiled from meta/recipes-kernel/linux/linux-yocto_3.14.bb
Jun 28 05:19:17 <elinuxer> How to i change to compile  linux kernel linux-ti-staging_3.8.bb
Jun 28 05:41:40 <elinuxer> and one more request is in meta-ti layer there is no linux-deb.inc file meta-ti/recipes-kernel/linux/ direcory.
Jun 28 05:41:59 <elinuxer> please any one help me to solve this issue.
Jun 28 06:28:29 <shay_shay> ,help
Jun 28 06:29:08 <shay_shay> ,list
Jun 28 06:36:56 <improvnerd> ,you’re not talking to who you think you are, shay_shay
Jun 28 06:37:54 <shay_shay> improvnerd: no i'm not, you are correct
Jun 28 06:39:43 <myself> /me ponders
Jun 28 06:41:49 <shay_shay> whos channel is this
Jun 28 06:42:00 <shay_shay> or, who's in charge
Jun 28 06:43:03 <improvnerd> Well, KotH is a channel op, and set the message....
Jun 28 06:43:55 <shay_shay> improvnerd: many channels the founder and most important people dont op themselves
Jun 28 06:44:24 <shay_shay> they use chanserv or a bot
Jun 28 06:45:32 <tbr> shay_shay: what is your problem?
Jun 28 06:47:00 <shay_shay> what makes you think i have a problem? i was just defending my question when someone implied it was invalid
Jun 28 06:47:31 <tbr> you are asking for OPs and founders, that implies you have an issue that needs to be addressed by them.
Jun 28 06:48:21 <shay_shay> oh yes, i did say that
Jun 28 06:49:01 <shay_shay> well not the op part
Jun 28 06:49:27 <Shadyman> You did ask who's in charge, and whose channel it is.
Jun 28 06:49:42 <Shadyman> That implies OPS and founders.
Jun 28 06:50:10 <shay_shay> yes but not specifically whos op. i can see the people who have @ in front of their nick are ops so why would i ask that
Jun 28 06:50:30 <shay_shay> it implies what i meant it to imply because i said it
Jun 28 06:50:55 <tbr> so if you don't have any issue that needs to be addressed, what are we talking about then?
Jun 28 06:51:11 <shay_shay> so if youre wondering what i meant by it then ask me instead of assuming
Jun 28 06:51:42 <tbr> I did ask you, to which you turned all blabla.
Jun 28 06:51:58 <shay_shay> not you tbr
Jun 28 06:52:13 <shay_shay> the other two
Jun 28 06:52:28 <Shadyman> I only reiterated what tbr stated.
Jun 28 06:52:53 <Shadyman> and I will, again. What's the purpose of this conversation?
Jun 28 06:53:40 <shay_shay> ,define reiterate
Jun 28 06:53:40 <lmgtfy> (shay_shay) reiterate: verb: 1. to say or do (something) for a second time, such as for emphasis. "Let me reiterate my opinion." 2. to say or do (something) repeatedly. adjective: Reiterated; repeated. synonyms: repeat
Jun 28 06:53:54 <tbr> wtf is that bot doing here?
Jun 28 06:54:05 <shay_shay> hmm, i dont think you can reiterate for someone else
Jun 28 06:54:34 <Shadyman> ,define troll
Jun 28 06:54:34 <lmgtfy> (Shadyman) troll: noun: 1. A supernatural being of varying size, now especially a grotesque humanoid creature living in caves or hills or under bridges. 2. (slang) An ugly person of either sex. verb: 1. To saunter. 2. To trundle, to roll from side to side.
Jun 28 06:54:43 <Shadyman> Close enough. Have fun.
Jun 28 08:00:44 <shay_shay> yello
Jun 28 08:41:38 <manju_> please kindly help me install drivers...........
Jun 28 09:34:08 <shay_shay> yo
Jun 28 10:49:52 <BobCat> ,define beagle
Jun 28 12:20:03 <aplavin> hi everyone! i've read a couple of manuals and tutorials, but still can't get - is it possible to install ubuntu or debian without hdmi monitor? if yes, how?
Jun 28 12:20:36 <aplavin> i mean, will it be possible just to connect over usb network after boot, like with angstrom?
Jun 28 12:21:25 <BobCat> microsd card install
Jun 28 12:21:39 <BobCat> stick it it, boot, it gets installed
Jun 28 12:22:28 <BobCat> I did that with debian and it worked fine
Jun 28 12:22:40 <BobCat> you can ssh into the blard then
Jun 28 12:22:44 <BobCat> board
Jun 28 12:23:06 <BobCat> if you want a GUI you can install x11vnc
Jun 28 12:23:13 <aplavin> is there only ethernet network + sshd working after first boot, or usb network too?
Jun 28 12:23:34 <BobCat> usb net works right after install
Jun 28 12:23:56 <BobCat> Use a Linux to connect via usb, it is much easier
Jun 28 12:24:04 <aplavin> oh, I have Linux :)
Jun 28 12:24:41 <aplavin> i've just seen in a tutorial, that they say to have hdmi monitor connected, as well as a mouse and keyboard - that's why asking here
Jun 28 12:26:36 <aplavin> could you please give a link to the image you used or to the tutorial? or any will work?
Jun 28 12:26:46 <BobCat> I installed debian with a microsd, ssh'ed in, installed x11vnc, set it up on the command line, and used a remote client with no trouble
Jun 28 12:27:13 <BobCat> if TI put up an official debian image use that
Jun 28 12:27:21 <BobCat> but i will check what i used
Jun 28 12:28:38 <BobCat> http://beagleboard.org/latest-images
Jun 28 12:28:58 <BobCat> either use the flasher if you want to wipe the board or use the other
Jun 28 12:29:21 <aplavin> thanks a lot!
Jun 28 12:30:09 <BobCat> I just flash every time since I have nothing saved on the bbb and want a fresh start
Jun 28 15:58:45 <shay_shay> BobCat: i removed it i dont want it to get in trouble before i can ask someone permission to put it in here
Jun 28 15:59:22 <shay_shay> but its a google bot and all commands are somehow related to google
Jun 28 16:07:56 <shay_shay> ,lmgtfy beagle bone black talk to linux iptables
Jun 28 16:07:58 <lmgtfy> (shay_shay) http://is.gd/H6dE35
Jun 28 16:10:10 <shay_shay> ,suggest help i'm 13 and
Jun 28 16:10:11 <lmgtfy> (shay_shay) help im 13 and pregnant, help im 13 and overweight, help im 13 and depressed, help im 13 and pregnant by my brother, help im 13 and fat, help im 13 and pregnant yahoo answers, help im 13 and single,...
Jun 28 16:11:29 <nyt-> .lmgtfy lemonparty
Jun 28 16:11:31 <nyt-> ,lmgtfy lemonparty
Jun 28 16:11:34 <lmgtfy> (nyt-) http://is.gd/p9galg
Jun 28 16:12:44 <BobCat> shay_shay,  can we use it in #geelstreams?
Jun 28 16:12:49 <BobCat> shay_shay,  can we use it in #geekstreams?
Jun 28 16:12:53 <BobCat> derp
Jun 28 16:12:54 <shay_shay> yes
Jun 28 16:13:19 <BobCat> I invited it but it said i don't have permission
Jun 28 16:13:58 <BobCat> I'll run my own at some point, too
Jun 28 17:02:35 <elkin9017> i wany buy 4 Beaglebone blak
Jun 28 17:03:28 <elkin9017> but, no store has it available
Jun 28 17:04:52 <nyt-> order from a listed reseller
Jun 28 17:04:55 <nyt-> your order will get filled in time
Jun 28 17:06:58 <shay_shay> sparkfun has em i think
Jun 28 17:07:25 <elkin9017> distributors only let me buy one beagle
Jun 28 17:08:54 <elkin9017> i want become distribuitor of beagle for Colombia
Jun 28 17:44:08 <Proftech> I was wondering if anyone knew if the "latest image" on BeagleBoard is the ARMHF version or the ARMEL version?
Jun 28 17:44:59 <shay_shay> armhf
Jun 28 17:45:13 <shay_shay> everyone knows :)
Jun 28 17:45:24 <myself> I didn't know!
Jun 28 17:45:29 <myself> 's why I didn't say anything :P
Jun 28 17:45:43 <shay_shay> i told you and so now you know
Jun 28 17:46:29 <Proftech> Fantastic. Thanks. I've been looking all over the web for the latest version.
Jun 28 17:49:02 <shay_shay> http://beagleboard.org/latest-images
Jun 28 17:51:18 <Proftech> Got it. That one seems to be May 14. There seems to be a June 5 version but I can't find a link to a complete download.
Jun 28 17:52:38 <shay_shay> but thats debian 7.5
Jun 28 17:53:15 <shay_shay> so you can install it then update it. if you have special needs youll have to update the kernel anyways
Jun 28 17:55:10 <Proftech> hmmm... my requirements are very simple. I just wanted to begin with the latest version I could.
Jun 28 17:55:47 <shay_shay> thats enough then
Jun 28 17:56:15 <Proftech> So if I simply update whatever comes on the machine I should be good to go?
Jun 28 17:57:31 <Proftech> Sorry. I re-read your earlier message. I think I understand.
Jun 28 17:57:43 <shay_shay> did the machine come with debian?
Jun 28 17:57:56 <Proftech> Supposed to
Jun 28 17:57:59 <shay_shay> rev c
Jun 28 17:58:24 <shay_shay> yeah it comes with 7.4, just apt-get update && apt-get dist-upgrade
Jun 28 17:59:57 <Proftech> Excellent! That is what I was wondering about. I'm somewhat familiar with Red Hat but haven't used any other distributions.
Jun 28 18:13:19 <shay_shay> debian actually knows hoe to update itself
Jun 28 18:14:30 <shay_shay> you can update between point releases of RHEL/CentOS but .. e.g from 6 to 7?
Jun 28 18:14:45 <shay_shay> not so nice
Jun 28 18:15:03 <shay_shay> debian usually does this seamlessly
Jun 28 18:15:18 <shay_shay> dist-upgrade is all you need
Jun 28 18:20:02 <deluxe247> So i have been searching for a while and havent come across a good way to do this much less get my servo to move. I have a beaglebone black and I want to be able to control a servo used for steering on an rc car. Are there any good examples that you guys can recommend for controlling a servo using c/c++ and the beaglebone black?
Jun 28 18:20:49 <myself> what've you been searching for??
Jun 28 18:23:03 <myself> First, prove out your wiring using any of the numerous examples in other languages (python, bonescript, html5..) that come up when you search for "beaglebone black pwm servo"
Jun 28 18:23:40 <myself> Then, once that's working, play with the library that comes up when you search for "beaglebone black pwm servo c"
Jun 28 18:27:32 <deluxe247> myself, that sounds like what i may have to do. i would have to use some python library more than likely. running archlinux on my beaglebone black
Jun 28 19:53:39 <manuel_> anyone using yocto with the beaglebone black?
Jun 28 20:06:40 <shay_shay> whats the point?
Jun 28 20:06:52 <shay_shay> why do we need another embedded linjx distro
Jun 28 20:07:41 <shay_shay> openwrt for lyfe!
Jun 28 20:20:36 <manuel_> right
Jun 28 20:38:26 <shay_shay> right is right
Jun 28 20:52:31 <PurpleDog> does anyone know how to create a new project in the cloud9 ide that comes on the BBB?
Jun 28 23:22:52 <zsnafu> help!!
Jun 28 23:22:56 <zsnafu> hellllllllppppp
Jun 28 23:29:31 <veremit> *mwhahahaha* :D
Jun 29 00:26:18 <shay_shay> veremit: was it you who said google bot yesterday?
Jun 29 00:26:57 <veremit> mhmm
Jun 29 00:27:03 <veremit> how's it goin? :P
Jun 29 00:27:07 <shay_shay> i made it
Jun 29 00:27:14 <veremit> I've seen one/two around
Jun 29 00:27:30 <shay_shay> ok y'know google search duggestions
Jun 29 00:27:47 <shay_shay> where it suggests how to finish your search string?
Jun 29 00:28:00 <shay_shay> ,suggest help i'm 12 and
Jun 29 00:28:00 <lmgtfy> (shay_shay) help im 12 and pregnant yahoo, help im 12 and pregnant by my brother, help im 12 and gay, help im 12 and overweight, help im 12 and depressed, help im 12 and i don't have a boyfriend, help im 12 and...
Jun 29 00:28:17 <veremit> nice
Jun 29 00:28:19 <veremit> lol
Jun 29 00:28:54 <veremit> I was thinking of something more practical for this channel, where users clearly cannot be bothered to google around their problem
Jun 29 00:29:14 <shay_shay> .g making beaglebone black talk to linux
Jun 29 00:29:19 <shay_shay> er
Jun 29 00:29:27 <veremit> it needs to return links, therefore.
Jun 29 00:29:27 <shay_shay> ,g making beaglebone black talk to linux
Jun 29 00:29:27 <lmgtfy> (shay_shay) http://shallowsky.com/blog/hardware/talking-to-beaglebone.html -- Talking to a BeagleBone Black from Linux (Shallow Thoughts): "Jul 16, 2013 ... Talking to a BeagleBone Black from Linux (Shallow Thoughts) ... But you might
Jun 29 00:29:43 <veremit> looks promising though :)
Jun 29 00:29:53 <shay_shay> and it can save factoids for FAQs
Jun 29 00:30:16 <shay_shay> ,r faq1 blahblah
Jun 29 00:31:06 <shay_shay> oh remember
Jun 29 00:31:21 <shay_shay> ,remember faq1 blahblah
Jun 29 00:31:27 <shay_shay> ?faq1
Jun 29 00:31:27 <lmgtfy> blahblah
Jun 29 00:32:24 <shay_shay> ?faq1 veremit
Jun 29 00:32:24 <lmgtfy> blahblah
Jun 29 00:32:38 <shay_shay> ,forget faq1
Jun 29 00:32:58 <veremit> lol
Jun 29 00:33:05 <veremit> channel faq would be killer
Jun 29 00:33:27 <shay_shay> and also if youre away and i need to leave you a message
Jun 29 00:33:37 <shay_shay> .tell veremit dont forget to breathe
Jun 29 00:33:43 <CLH_> I'm unable to ping my computer from my BBB over USB, any suggestions?
Jun 29 00:33:58 * veremit bites his tongue and takes a walk
Jun 29 00:35:28 <shay_shay> CLH_ maybe sleep on it, in the morning after rest you will see some obvious thing you overlooked
Jun 29 00:36:01 <shay_shay> did you see the link that lmgtfy posted? that ones a good one if your PC is running linux
Jun 29 00:38:04 <CLH_> I've been dealing with this problem for a couple days now, and I'm running Windows
Jun 29 00:38:47 <CLH_> At this point my planned course of action is to get an Ethernet cable and see if that helps
Jun 29 00:41:52 <shay_shay> well theres a nice guide for that. hold on
Jun 29 00:44:13 <zmatt> CLH_: Windows Firewall? :P
Jun 29 00:44:54 <zmatt> (probably a bit too obvious as it would be the first suspect, but still)
Jun 29 00:44:54 <shay_shay> ,g Getting Started – USB Network Adapter on the Beaglebone
Jun 29 00:44:54 <lmgtfy> (shay_shay) http://beagleboard.org/static/beaglebone/latest/README.htm -- BeagleBoard.org - getting-started: "Use the provided USB cable to plug BeagleBone into your computer. ... Install the
Jun 29 00:45:16 <shay_shay> http://derekmolloy.ie/beaglebone/getting-started-usb-network-adapter-on-the-beaglebone/
Jun 29 00:46:03 <shay_shay> tje derekmolly video plus his blog post and all the questions in the comments should set you up
Jun 29 00:53:31 <CLH_> I turned off the firewall and the ping went through.  #windows.  hopefully that is the end of my problem
Jun 29 00:53:41 <zmatt> whoa... I just noticed I rank third in the 'Top Contributors' of one of the TI E2E forums... damn, I must have wasted way too much time there
Jun 29 00:53:44 <zmatt> CLH_: hahaha
Jun 29 00:54:06 <zmatt> CLH_: doesn't sound like the best idea to turn windows firewall off entirely though
Jun 29 00:54:43 <zmatt> but I had an issue with that at work too... basically, windows doesn't automatically treat 192.168.x.x networks as "local"
Jun 29 00:55:38 <zmatt> at least, that's one issue, there are probably others :P
Jun 29 00:56:21 <veremit> windows will only treat the exact same subnet as 'local'
Jun 29 00:56:32 <veremit> as per the definition of 'subnet' suprisingly enough :)
Jun 29 00:56:52 <shay_shay> even if you enable internet connection sharing?
Jun 29 00:56:55 <veremit> if its a 10.0.x.x .. thats different to the 192.168.x.x class
Jun 29 00:57:12 <zmatt> veremit: same goes for 10.x.x.x of course
Jun 29 00:57:17 <veremit> ugh don't start on "internet connection sharing"
Jun 29 00:57:23 <shay_shay> lol
Jun 29 00:57:33 <shay_shay> i dont use windowd so
Jun 29 00:57:33 <veremit> the greatest hack I've ever known
Jun 29 00:57:53 <veremit> iptables and masquerading ftw
Jun 29 00:58:00 <shay_shay> indeef
Jun 29 00:58:04 <veremit> if you don't understand it .. you shouldn't be configuring it.
Jun 29 00:58:09 <shay_shay> s/indeef/indeed
Jun 29 00:58:10 <lmgtfy> Correction, <shay_shay> indeed
Jun 29 00:58:41 <veremit> smart :)
Jun 29 00:59:02 <shay_shay> s/indeed/indeep
Jun 29 00:59:02 <lmgtfy> (shay_shay) Did not find indeed in any recent messages.
Jun 29 00:59:03 <zmatt> the problem I had was that every file copied from the NAS (located on the local subnet) were treated as being "from the internet", triggering a security warning whenever you started an application (or sometimes even just opened a document) copied from there
Jun 29 00:59:12 <zmatt> that was so annoying
Jun 29 00:59:16 <shay_shay> it wont correct corrections
Jun 29 00:59:20 <zsnafu> HELP ME!!
Jun 29 00:59:29 <zsnafu> THERE'S A 10 LBS CAT ON MY LAP AND WON'T MOVE
Jun 29 00:59:34 <zmatt> lol
Jun 29 00:59:37 <zsnafu> ohhhh what has this world come to!
Jun 29 00:59:38 <zmatt> pwnd
Jun 29 00:59:48 <veremit> if you have dHCP its rarely a problem because you're normally always on the SAME subnet
Jun 29 01:00:05 <veremit> its only when you have fixed IPs and networks connected together it all gets a bit crazy
Jun 29 01:00:11 <veremit> cf. using usb gadget ethernet.
Jun 29 01:00:31 <zmatt> veremit: DHCP vs static has nothing to do with that though :P
Jun 29 01:00:36 <zmatt> ohh
Jun 29 01:01:17 <zmatt> CLH_: which of your computer's IPs did you try to ping, your main one or the one belonging to the usb network interface?
Jun 29 01:01:43 <zmatt> oh nm
Jun 29 01:02:05 <zmatt> the BBB wouldn't have a route to the other one anyhow
Jun 29 01:02:24 <shay_shay> it would be all or nothing
Jun 29 01:02:44 <zmatt> but yeah, connecting the BBB to the local network via ethernet would be a better idea anyhow... usb sucks
Jun 29 01:02:54 <veremit> amen
Jun 29 01:04:04 <zmatt> (an opinion I already held firmly *before* it got reconfirmed by discovering that USB2's "480 Mbps" is, best case, 280 Mbps of data and 200 Mbps of protocol overhead)
Jun 29 01:04:17 <veremit> never .. lol
Jun 29 01:04:30 <veremit> it depends which way though .. because of the pairs
Jun 29 01:04:46 <shay_shay> sometimes speed is not required tho
Jun 29 01:04:54 <veremit> if you're trying full-duplex you can't because its the same pair of wires :)
Jun 29 01:05:05 <zmatt> shay_shay: usb has more issues than that
Jun 29 01:05:05 <veremit> so yes, you would get a lot of overhead
Jun 29 01:05:06 <zmatt> :P
Jun 29 01:05:38 <veremit> thats why usb has two sets of differential pairs
Jun 29 01:06:01 <veremit> 3**
Jun 29 01:07:50 <zmatt> usb3 has nothing to do with usb1/2 though, it's a completely different bus run in parallel to an usb2 one for compat
Jun 29 01:09:17 <veremit> yes I know this :p
Jun 29 01:09:28 <veremit> 9 wires not 4
Jun 29 01:09:57 <zmatt> well the number of wires by itself doesn't imply much
Jun 29 01:10:02 <veremit> nope
Jun 29 01:11:18 <shay_shay> i just like how theres only one wire
Jun 29 01:11:39 <zsnafu> (sometimes 11 wires)
Jun 29 01:12:04 <shay_shay> i mean cable
Jun 29 01:12:07 <shay_shay> one cable
Jun 29 01:14:21 <zmatt> power + data is very nice for small devices, but firewire is technically so much better, it's a shame it lost from usb2 (apparently due to some idiotic move by Apple who though they were in a position to ask licensing fees per device.  They abandoned that position eventually but by then vendors already went with the inferior but free alternative)
Jun 29 01:14:58 <zmatt> usb is nice... as replacement for PS/2 :P
Jun 29 01:15:28 <zsnafu> you could almost make the same arguement between thunderbolt and usb
Jun 29 01:15:29 <veremit> usb works
Jun 29 01:15:47 <veremit> its reasonably plug-and-play too
Jun 29 01:16:06 <veremit> especially with compliant devices :)
Jun 29 01:16:14 <zmatt> zsnafu: I don't see how
Jun 29 01:17:19 <zmatt> zsnafu: firewire existed before usb2, and if according to a background story I read wouldn't even have existed without aforementioned blunder by Apple
Jun 29 01:18:40 <zmatt> usb was a low-speed protocol meant as replacement of serial ports and PS/2 and shit like that, not something you'd consider connecting a HD to or anything else that requires performance
Jun 29 01:18:57 <shay_shay> except high end keyboards still use ps2 for n-key rollover
Jun 29 01:19:12 <zmatt> ?
Jun 29 01:19:50 <shay_shay> the mechanical keyboard market, especially for gamers but also for professional typists
Jun 29 01:20:13 <shay_shay> ps/2 allows more keys to register at exactly the same time
Jun 29 01:21:31 <zmatt> I don't see any reason how that could be due to ps/2 vs usb... how many keys can be buffered in the keyboard sounds like it's entirely up to the keyboard controller
Jun 29 01:23:33 <shay_shay> https://mechanicalkeyboards.com/shop/index.php?l=product_detail&p=830
Jun 29 01:25:13 <veremit> the ps2 clock is far slower than usb I'm certain.
Jun 29 01:25:25 <veremit> ok so the encoding might be different
Jun 29 01:25:26 <zmatt> o.O .. so it doesn't actually have anything to do with usb, since the keyboard only has an usb plug and they include a ps/2 adapter
Jun 29 01:25:33 <shay_shay> i hate cherry mx green
Jun 29 01:25:38 <veremit> lol
Jun 29 01:26:37 <shay_shay> then explain this http://www.daskeyboard.com/blog/das-keyboards-ps2-pci-card-recommendation-for-n-key-rollover/
Jun 29 01:26:45 <zmatt> in any case it is unrelated to true rollover, since that's about the keyboard matrix
Jun 29 01:27:09 <zmatt> which usb doesn't concern itself with (and probably neither does ps/2)
Jun 29 01:27:57 <zmatt> shay_shay: plenty of idiotic things are sold?
Jun 29 01:28:51 <zmatt> rollover is purely a keyboard hardware design aspect -> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rollover_(key)
Jun 29 01:29:17 <shay_shay> http://deskthority.net/keyboards-f2/nkro-is-it-really-important-t352-30.html 4th post here
Jun 29 01:32:00 <zmatt> most of that post is nonsense
Jun 29 01:33:12 <shay_shay> http://blog.controlspace.org/2010/08/n-key-rollover-what-it-is-and-how-to.html?m=1 grep "usb protocol limitation"
Jun 29 01:33:30 <zmatt> the only valid point is that PS/2 sends out data serially directly while with USB it needs to buffer it until polled
Jun 29 01:34:18 <zmatt> but PS/2 will need to buffer also if you genuinely hit simultaneous keys
Jun 29 01:34:42 <shay_shay> http://www.pcper.com/news/General-Tech/CM-Storm-QuickFire-Pro-Full-NKRO-over-USB
Jun 29 01:34:44 <zmatt> the only possible issue is if the keyboard has a truly miniscule buffer and the host doesn't poll often enough
Jun 29 01:35:03 <zmatt> the easy fix is not using a miniscule buffer, rather than using an archaic port
Jun 29 01:35:25 <shay_shay> third comment here explains how some manufacturers get "NKRO" by making the keyboars appear as three keyboards to the OS
Jun 29 01:35:36 <shay_shay> which only really works on windowa
Jun 29 01:35:55 <zmatt> sounds thoroughly rediculous
Jun 29 01:36:18 <shay_shay> well 6KRO is enough for most people
Jun 29 01:36:43 <zmatt> but maybe there's like one cheapass usb keyboard controller that everyone uses which has only a 6-key buffer
Jun 29 01:36:51 <shay_shay> aparently braile input is a application where NKRO is useful
Jun 29 01:37:28 <shay_shay> all of the high end keyboards have the 6 key limitation
Jun 29 01:37:35 <shay_shay> on usb
Jun 29 01:38:03 <shay_shay> unless they use thay driver hack which makes the os see multiple keyboards
Jun 29 01:38:39 <zmatt> ah, finally found a proper explanation
Jun 29 01:38:55 <shay_shay> i use USB on mine because i dont give a s***
Jun 29 01:38:59 <zmatt> (which I'm first going to verify by checking the standard)
Jun 29 01:39:04 <shay_shay> ok
Jun 29 01:39:28 <zmatt> since it still sounds odd
Jun 29 01:40:10 <shay_shay> yeah it really does :P
Jun 29 01:40:30 <shay_shay> sound odd
Jun 29 01:40:43 <zmatt> but it claims that the usb protocol (rather, the relevant class spec) doesn't allow the keyboard to specify more than 6 keys depressed
Jun 29 01:41:25 <zmatt> given the flexibility of usb HID that sounds very unlikely, but I'll check anyway
Jun 29 01:44:39 <thurgood_> that doesn;t sound likely, unless it's part of the OS's drivers for the keyboard that doesn't allow that
Jun 29 01:45:02 <zmatt> no, it turns out it's actually true, but only for the ultrasimplified "boot" protocols
Jun 29 01:45:42 <shay_shay> zmatt oh yeah i remember now
Jun 29 01:46:04 <shay_shay> theres a way to get it working on linux but then you wont jave it at boot
Jun 29 01:46:14 <shay_shay> s/jave/have
Jun 29 01:46:14 <lmgtfy> Correction, <shay_shay> theres a way to get it working on linux but then you wont have it at boot
Jun 29 01:46:46 <zmatt> the requirement is only that the first 8 bytes of a keyboard report must comply with the standard format, since BIOS is not expected to query HID devices for the format of the reports they make
Jun 29 01:49:27 <shay_shay> http://www.overclock.net/t/902905/review-noppoo-choc-mini-mechanical-keyboad-cherry-mx-brown-nkro-under-usb keyboard nerds take keyboard reviews way too far
Jun 29 01:49:57 <shay_shay> closeups of the concave of the key, the printing method for the letter, etc
Jun 29 01:50:06 <shay_shay> its like their fetish
Jun 29 01:52:08 <shay_shay> the thickness of the walls of the keycap... which would affect how stiff and quiet the key will be
Jun 29 01:56:29 <zmatt> yeah, I'm kinda done with the subject, but my conclusion is:  the limitation is real, but only for the "boot protocol" used when the host doesn't implement an USB stack with a true HID class driver, e.g. for BIOS.  However, "When the HID class driver is loaded, it will issue a Change Protocol, changing from the boot protocol to the report protocol"
Jun 29 01:57:07 <zmatt> and there's no reason afaict to include the same limitation in the final Report descriptor
Jun 29 01:58:00 <zmatt> the limitation only exists to avoid overwhelming a feeble keyboard driver in BIOS with the complexity of USB HID
Jun 29 02:00:52 <shay_shay> k :)
Jun 29 02:10:06 <zmatt> btw, the person mentioning isochronous transfers in one of the comments you linked to is an idiot:  isochronous transfers are meant for continuous fixed-bandwidth streams where delivery on time is more important than data integrity, hence no checksum is used and no retransmission is attempted if there's any loss
Jun 29 02:10:45 <zmatt> for low-bandwidth low-latency usb has "interrupt endpoints", which is in fact what keyboards use
Jun 29 02:24:34 <lmgtfy> derp
Jun 29 02:43:30 <zmatt> shay: http://pastebin.com/kuzUs3vA
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Sun Jun 29 02:59:59 2014