**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat Mar 07 02:59:58 2015 Mar 07 04:49:46 ARGH, I hate it when C++ suddenly turns out to impose some restriction without obvious reason Mar 07 04:50:03 error: declaration of 'tc' as array of references Mar 07 04:50:41 yes SO WHAT, that's exactly what I want Mar 07 04:52:53 (granted, often it turns out there's a reason involving some obscure corner case, but that still seems like a poor reason to refuse it in all cases) Mar 07 04:58:58 C++ is just bad. Mar 07 04:59:29 no, bad is the wrong word Mar 07 04:59:37 cruel Mar 07 05:00:10 it first entices and lures you, and then slaps the door in your face and says HAHA YOU CAN'T Mar 07 05:00:40 sane folks use C Mar 07 05:01:34 thing is, I actually like the significantly increased amount of metaprogramming ability, plus I may be slightly addicted to syntax sugar Mar 07 05:02:04 same thing applies to meth, right? Mar 07 05:02:41 I'm not sure how much use meth is for metaprogramming Mar 07 05:02:50 So latest images says "recommended debian images". Is Debian the recommendation now, or am I interpreting that wrong? Mar 07 05:03:28 ds2: it's probably better suited for not minding having to explicitly type out 20 slightly different versions of something instead of being able to do it with metaprogramming ;) Mar 07 05:03:57 the preprocessor is amazing thing Mar 07 05:04:14 yes, amazing... really... *vomit* Mar 07 05:06:13 tamarin: as opposed to? Mar 07 05:06:32 For some reason, I remember using opkg from Yocto on an old Beaglebone (probably pre-black). Mar 07 05:07:24 Or I've gone crazy. hm Mar 07 05:07:36 ds2: templates aren't all fun and sunshine either, but at least you get some type-safety, and have normal scoping rules instead of every occurrence of the token suddenly becoming magic Mar 07 05:08:23 the backend price of that is too high Mar 07 05:08:47 dunno, my projects seem to compile fast enough Mar 07 05:09:01 but I do agree templates are messy too Mar 07 05:09:17 was thinking of linker and library issues Mar 07 05:09:24 ? Mar 07 05:09:46 it is all fine and good ifyou have the luxury of 1 toolchain Mar 07 05:09:53 mix them and all hell breaks loose Mar 07 05:10:10 kind of like Koen's warning about hard fp vs soft fp Mar 07 05:10:29 or trying to mix objects from gcc for glibc with objects from gcc for bionic Mar 07 05:10:30 oh dunno, I'm using templates just in headers for stuff that disappears at compile-time Mar 07 05:10:40 there is backend support for that Mar 07 05:11:58 and most of my C++ code is baremetal hence statically linked anyway Mar 07 05:12:01 fun with libstl Mar 07 05:12:24 and uses no stl other than stuff like Mar 07 05:12:56 (as I said, I mainly use it for metaprogramming and syntax sugar :P ) Mar 07 05:12:58 Oh, so it comes with Debian. I'm so confused. hm Mar 07 05:13:39 (I also compile with -fno-exceptions -fno-rtti etc) Mar 07 05:14:40 since goddamn arm unwinding pulls in a giant heap of crap Mar 07 05:17:20 zmatt, well maybe beagle should go mips then Mar 07 05:18:01 heh Mar 07 05:18:12 well dunno if the grass is greener elsewhere Mar 07 05:19:59 part of the problem is that unwind tables reference the unwinder, which references either stdio or (shudder) iostream, and tons of stuff I normally don't link to (in baremetal code) as a result Mar 07 05:20:43 probably if you already normally use that library code then it won't make a big dent Mar 07 05:22:28 but Mar 07 05:22:35 ewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww mips Mar 07 05:22:44 I want my conditional execution! Mar 07 05:22:51 all that still doesn't explain why I can't declare an array of references :P Mar 07 05:23:51 ds2: not that much of that remains in Thumb (and armv8 deprecates even more of it) Mar 07 05:24:19 would sooner go x86 then mips Mar 07 05:25:11 wow, is mips *that* bad? I'm not really familiar with it, but it must be truly horrible then Mar 07 05:28:12 mips caused the iraq war Mar 07 05:29:37 and i hear also the IT bubble of the 90s Mar 07 05:29:55 oh, it actually looks like a fairly standard and sane RISC instruction set Mar 07 05:30:33 it doesnt have as many revisions as arm from what i gather Mar 07 05:31:07 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M-Labs#Milkymist_SoC Mar 07 05:31:14 you could always build your own risc soc Mar 07 05:31:19 which means it's still fairly regular instead of new instructions being shoehorned into every bit of available opcode space Mar 07 05:31:37 the multiply thing looks icky though Mar 07 05:39:31 zmatt, dont expect to see much in terms of a user accessible dev platform though...most of it is used in carrier grade networking equipment Mar 07 05:41:09 * zmatt kicks g++ in the nuts Mar 07 05:44:22 making some obvious observation about my code and sticking "error: " in front of it does not constitute a useful diagnostic Mar 07 05:45:26 "error: template declaration of ''" Mar 07 05:46:28 ok I'll be fair I do sometimes maybe actively test the limits to see what I can get away with, but still :P Mar 07 05:47:07 it complains about the most random things! like, why can't I have a struct containing an anonymous union containing an anonymous struct containing an anonymous union containing a const volatile field Mar 07 05:48:12 yo dawg, we herd you liked structs... Mar 07 05:48:44 (reducing the stack of anon aggregates or removing the 'const' fixes the problem) Mar 07 05:56:51 ah crap, gcc does support what I want... in version 5 Mar 07 05:57:25 why dont you use clang or llvm Mar 07 05:58:00 yeah I have used that too for a while, but it has its own headaches Mar 07 05:58:12 and at least last time I checked produced substantially inferior code Mar 07 05:58:29 how so Mar 07 06:00:24 the single biggest headache is probably getting the frontend's search paths right... at least with gcc people can download the linaro toolchain and it will Just Compile™, I don't see that happening with clang currently Mar 07 06:11:34 zmatt, maybe they should use retroencabulation technology Mar 07 06:11:55 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RXJKdh1KZ0w Mar 07 06:12:22 make sure you have enough dingleberry or you might get a modal phase lock Mar 07 06:13:08 :P Mar 07 07:16:48 hello Mar 07 07:18:06 not able to simulate starterware files in code composer studio6(ccs).. Mar 07 07:19:00 how to include starterware libraries and all stuff here to compile and run a simple example of gpio_led which is given in examples.. Mar 07 07:21:01 ask TI Mar 07 07:21:27 on their websites ?? Mar 07 07:21:41 http://e2e.ti.com/support/arm/sitara_arm/f/791 Mar 07 07:21:48 or no Mar 07 07:22:18 http://e2e.ti.com/support/embedded/starterware/f/790/ Mar 07 07:23:04 ok.. Mar 07 07:23:06 (better to let the starterware people deal with their tripe than bother the device forum with it :P ) Mar 07 07:25:24 okk..so time to search for qemu emulator for emulating starterware :P Mar 07 07:26:22 last time I checked qemu only simulates fairly poor approximations to some TI targets Mar 07 07:26:34 :( Mar 07 07:27:10 so is there any alternative to emulate ?? as i have BBB but no usb to serial adapter :( Mar 07 07:27:21 buy a serial adapter Mar 07 07:27:49 i have ordered it..but it will take 2-3 days.. Mar 07 07:27:52 (note btw that for historical reasons the term "emulation" refers to (JTAG) debugging, at least in TI speak) Mar 07 07:28:12 ohh.. Mar 07 07:28:19 so meanwhile need to test my code.. Mar 07 07:28:24 simulation is called simulation Mar 07 07:29:44 why isnt golang used more ? it seems to be a better alternative to C Mar 07 07:29:59 and while the serial cable is certainly *also* necessary, baremetal code development without JTAG is still going to be painful Mar 07 07:30:06 and CCS mostly useless Mar 07 07:30:30 (unless you happen to like it as IDE.....) Mar 07 07:32:11 so usb to serial is must for this :( Mar 07 07:33:38 usb to serial gets you a console, which is pretty essential, but like I said you really want JTAG if you're going to do baremetal development Mar 07 07:37:43 so, is JTAG is easily configurable with BBB ?? Mar 07 07:48:08 can anyone help i have two bbb and i cant get them to boot or connect through ethernet or usb . i bought them used , the lights come on and power lights stays on and other blinks like heartbeat. ive tried every tutorial ,ive loaded up on sd card ive tried ssh. everything .im very new to these any help would be awesome Mar 07 07:52:55 i accidentaly logged out did anyone have any suggestions with the problems im having with bbb Mar 07 07:54:46 benjie_: what OS do you run on your PC? Mar 07 07:55:54 ive tried on a windows 7 and on my main computer running linux mint debian Mar 07 07:59:57 tbr: i might add that the guy i got them from said he used them for a class and installed ubuntu on them , and lost the password and username to them and said he bricked them in the process Mar 07 08:00:27 so, under linux it should be easier Mar 07 08:00:45 if the leds blink, then they aren't broken Mar 07 08:01:13 tbr: i tried the ssh through ethernet and usb and all i get is a timeout error Mar 07 08:02:18 benjie_: step by step, first check if the devices show up by using 'dmesg' or 'lsusb' Mar 07 08:02:37 if they do, check if the usb network connection is up, if not set it up Mar 07 08:04:29 tbr:ok do i just type lsusb in terminal Mar 07 08:05:11 after the board is attached over usb and booted (which can probably take a minute) Mar 07 08:07:49 geekswine_: well the annoying bit about JTAG is that the connector is located on the botton, and not placed Mar 07 08:07:55 tbr:i get listings of 5 bus 4 that say linux foundation one that says microdia Mar 07 08:08:13 geekswine_: (my dev BBB got legs to deal with that -> http://gerbil.xs4all.nl/barebone.jpg ) Mar 07 08:08:49 benjie_: are the leds blinking? check 'dmesg' for related messages Mar 07 08:09:27 tbr:power led is on two leds are blinking Mar 07 08:10:03 geekswine_: the two resistors you see change the boot mode to ethernet for convenience :) Mar 07 08:10:20 (so I can just do "make" and press the reset button) Mar 07 08:11:20 jtag upload could in theory be even more convenient and faster, except CCS debugserver sucks and openocd sucks :P Mar 07 08:11:54 benjie_: let's try something different. get a µSD card and dd the flasher to it (the raw device NOT the partition) Mar 07 08:13:32 sigh... this is getting annoying Mar 07 08:13:35 tbr:ok give me a sec and i let you know what happens and thanks Mar 07 08:13:57 there is an entire chapter on troubleshooting the BBW/BBB in my book. along with other apparent FAQ's. Mar 07 08:14:03 and on that note. good night Mar 07 08:18:10 tbr: the emmc flasher file or the angstrom Mar 07 08:18:56 debian emmc flasher Mar 07 08:19:22 also ds2 has a point, a lot has been written about this and getting started Mar 07 08:22:39 ok where can i buy this book and thanks alot im a noob, i have only dealt with arduino Mar 07 08:24:51 zmatt: nice..:D Mar 07 08:25:35 benjie_: his book is this one, I think: https://www.packtpub.com/hardware-and-creative/learning-beaglebone Mar 07 08:26:17 benjie_: that's just an example (first hit on google). Also there are many webpages dealing with this, foremost beagleboard.org has instructions how to reflash a board. Mar 07 08:35:46 hello Mar 07 08:36:01 can any one please help on loading 1-wire device tree. Mar 07 08:36:34 i have loaded thedevice tree. but my 1-wire device is not found in /sys/bus/w1/devices Mar 07 13:47:31 hi guys how are ovlerlays handled with the 3.14 kernel? Mar 07 16:51:10 Why was bonescript written in JS? Why not C? Mar 07 19:21:08 I'm interested in learning about BB PRUs as a part of my undergrad project.. Can an1 suggest an application that would use PRU? Mar 07 19:21:57 <_av500_> http://processors.wiki.ti.com/index.php/PRU_Projects Mar 07 19:22:19 * nerdboy still thinking about answering Mar 07 19:36:40 hello all.. Mar 07 19:37:26 I have some noob stupid questions.. Mar 07 19:38:38 I have my BBB up and running just fine, I can compile and run C code, and I have Python working.. Mar 07 19:40:17 My question is, (get your flame throwers ready)... I need to build a GUI to be the "face" of my C application. Is there anything like VB6 that can make it easy for me like VB did? Mar 07 19:40:51 well, you can run anything on it that can either run directly on framebuffer or x11 Mar 07 19:41:05 As much as I HATE micro$oft, They really did make it easy with VB Mar 07 19:41:09 i used qt for the stuff i did that way Mar 07 19:41:19 well VB is shit, imho... Mar 07 19:41:43 * nerdboy recommends pygame interface Mar 07 19:41:47 is there a drag-and-drop editor for QT? Mar 07 19:41:48 on the other hand, a modern VC++ is damn fucking great to build gui apps Mar 07 19:42:02 it comes with one Mar 07 19:42:21 so QT has a RAD envronment? Mar 07 19:42:23 it's on the level of, or rather better than VB Mar 07 19:42:36 https://github.com/VCTLabs/weather-rpi/tree/master/local-display <= rpi tft display Mar 07 19:42:45 it doesnt beat a modern GUI system, sadly Mar 07 19:42:51 that's great! just what I wanted to haer.. Mar 07 19:43:31 what do you man by "it doesnt beat a modern GUI system, sadly" Mar 07 19:43:53 it's sad that qt creator is on the level of visual studio, how it was 10 years ago Mar 07 19:44:33 So QT creator = msvc 1995? Mar 07 19:44:41 10, not 20 Mar 07 19:44:57 holy crap - Mar 07 19:45:02 time has gone by. Mar 07 19:45:16 :) Mar 07 19:45:21 well, sitting in a freezer for too long does that to you Mar 07 19:45:48 glade would be the python equivalent afaik Mar 07 19:46:05 should all be available in deb/ubuntu Mar 07 19:46:09 so, QT creator: is it an entire IDE or is it just a tool to make a set of C files Mar 07 19:46:19 nerdboy: glade is at the level of msvc 1995 Mar 07 19:46:36 louloulou: it can be both :) Mar 07 19:46:41 * nerdboy not mr gui Mar 07 19:46:42 louloulou: and even more Mar 07 19:47:13 pygame is not a horrible interface Mar 07 19:47:17 nerdboy: glade was cool, when the only other way was to hard code gtk 1.x in your code Mar 07 19:47:39 ok thanks ! - that is the direction I will run in then - and not bother you with any more stupid questions until I at least read the pages on it.. Mar 07 19:48:01 louloulou: it might be a beginner question, but imho it's not stupid Mar 07 19:48:09 louloulou: finding a good tool for unix is not easy Mar 07 19:48:15 louloulou: finding a good gui tool for unix is not easy Mar 07 19:48:29 unless you are looking for meaningless and detailed questions that are probably irreverent.. :) Mar 07 19:48:37 KotH: then i would expect something newer is preferred for python 2.7/3 Mar 07 19:48:48 nerdboy: sorry, i dont swing that way Mar 07 19:49:02 louloulou: there is a #qt channel on freenode Mar 07 19:49:11 glade is pretty old... Mar 07 19:49:28 I have been building scientific instrumentation - I am the embedded ARM and FPGA guy - but somehow I ended up writing the GUI too.. Mar 07 19:49:39 nerdboy: what part of "it was cool when gtk 1.x was the only other option" was not clear? Mar 07 19:49:41 I did it in vb6 as a quck test.. Mar 07 19:49:55 and it became a product (not my idea) Mar 07 19:50:04 pull the stick out, man... Mar 07 19:50:08 louloulou: hmm.. how about using labview instead? Mar 07 19:50:16 I want to switch to BBB and linux - Mar 07 19:50:17 louloulou: for instrumentation, that's almost the best choice Mar 07 19:50:25 save a ton of $ Mar 07 19:50:25 louloulou: an afternoon and you have a complete control app Mar 07 19:50:43 yeah.. labview is not cheap, but it's imho worth its money Mar 07 19:50:57 I cant design in flowchars.. Mar 07 19:50:57 it's not like the stuff from synopsis Mar 07 19:51:15 I am an Altera Jihadist.. Mar 07 19:51:27 wait! you do fpga and cannot do flow diagrams? Mar 07 19:51:47 crap - that comment probably got me on the DHS watch liist :) Mar 07 19:52:09 I do a lot of verilog.. Mar 07 19:52:26 bah! you are from the wrong coast! Mar 07 19:52:47 but I need to get the product away from winX - and into a linux world - Mar 07 19:52:59 but i can now understand why you cannot do flow diagrams Mar 07 19:54:20 I love the BBB - but I am so very surprised at how hard it is to find a decent GUI / RAD tool. I will give QT creator a try.. Mar 07 19:56:44 that's because gui tools for linux are rather hard to find Mar 07 19:56:59 it's a general problem of the unix community, not of embedded linux Mar 07 20:14:27 hello guys - I'm very new with the beaglebone black, I want to get ubuntu onto it to run ROS... I'm having a little trouble following the wiki's - can someone recomend a good info source and how to interpret it or help me through this? Mar 07 20:16:35 johnrobotics: whats your problem? Mar 07 20:19:36 I'm trying to instal 14.04, however the only official support is 12.xx and I'm not experienced at all with going off the beaten path, the wiki I have found leaves me confused becuase I don't know how the BBB opperates (for example I don't know what eMMC is) Mar 07 20:21:31 johnrobotics: ans whats the problem with 12.04? Mar 07 20:24:39 Hi everyone. Does anybody create opengl applications on Beaglebone Black? Mar 07 20:27:52 Hi everyone. Does anybody create opengl applications on Beaglebone Black? Mar 07 20:40:54 johnrobotics: whats your plan anyway? Mar 07 21:02:15 Humpelstilzchen sorry for the radio silence, got distracted by my team mates Mar 07 21:03:08 I need 14.04 to run the sam ROS version as my other robotics. End plan is I'm creating an autonomous submarine - BBB is a ROS node from the main computer and its preferably to my teammates to have it all in the same OS and version Mar 07 21:03:54 how is the sub driven? Mar 07 21:04:33 through seabotix motors - with i2c, the BBB controls them Mar 07 21:05:59 Hi Mar 07 21:05:59 johnrobotics: fun, does ros have the nodes for underwater moving? Also http://wiki.ros.org/BeagleBone lists a 14.04 Image did you try that one? Mar 07 21:06:15 Anyone can access Angstrom Linux repo? Mar 07 21:08:15 Humpelstilzchen: right now no, or at least none that we've found: if my team can create anything worthwhile we'll publicise it (all our stuff is opensource) 6 degrees of freedom is a little hard to get a handle of Mar 07 21:08:49 and that link looks good, currently checking it out! Mar 07 21:12:57 johnrobotics: if you plan to use slam underwater you might want to use a faster cpu Mar 07 21:13:19 can you explain what Omap Serial Changes and what I should do with them: http://elinux.org/BeagleBoardUbuntu#Omap_Serial_Changes? I'm trying to follow the wiki linearaly : elinux.org/BeagleBoardUbuntu but I dont think thats going to work Mar 07 21:13:53 we have an i7 doing all the hard number crunching Mar 07 21:14:45 johnrobotics: but the i7 probably has a bit of latency from the sensors, right? Mar 07 21:15:28 johnrobotics: they renamed the serial interface a long long time ago, should not be needed for bbb afaik Mar 07 21:18:51 there is - we actually can't do slam this year since we'd need a DVL (Doppler velocity long) GPS dosent work underwater (water absorbs the frequency) so the only way to get an absolute position underwater is through placing beacons (which we can't do) or through a DVL which is a $16k+ sensor so we'll just being going off of IMU's and machine vision Mar 07 21:20:53 johnrobotics: whats wrong with measureing the speed in water? (at least while its still) Mar 07 21:21:34 can't measure speed - only acceleration. we can integrate the accelerations to get a rough estimate of our position but its not reliable at all Mar 07 21:22:01 johnrobotics: ships do measure speed using a wheel Mar 07 21:23:00 theyre 2 degree of freedom vessles. its harder when you have 6 unknown variables Mar 07 21:23:47 right but here a imu/pressure sensor should help? Mar 07 21:25:40 help but its not reliable enough for any decent slam mapping - its a lot more effecient for us to stick with the basics this year (this is our first time trying to create an autonomous sub) and then go to the more complicated stuff next Mar 07 21:27:56 hmm and when using hector slam? Mar 07 21:35:03 johnrobotics: waht's the issue with 6 DoF? Mar 07 21:43:27 looking up hector slam now Mar 07 21:45:05 Ds2: the main issue is that theres a lot of unpredictability, currents, bouyancy, center of moments and inertia - everything is moving and its hard to logically keep it all in check... we'er still in the very early stages of figuring everything out - but its hard to get a grasp on it all Mar 07 21:47:05 I don think we'll be able to use hector_slam becuase we dont have a lidar that can penetrate more than a foot through water (we have the same hikoyio he has and it only goes a foot underwater)) Mar 07 21:47:34 for hector slam to work with us we'd need a pretty intense sonar system i think Mar 07 21:49:02 ok thats a problem, sonar probably will not work as you can't get a xyz coordinate of your obstacle Mar 07 21:49:03 Humpelstilzchen: right now our sensors our pretty much limited thanks to water. we have two 10axis imu's placed at opposite ends of the vessle, 5 cameras, and a pressure transducer. So we can tell decently the accerations of the sub and the absolute depth and then everything else is relative to the cameras Mar 07 21:49:42 cameras arranged in front, left, right, up, down orrientations Mar 07 21:51:42 johnrobotics: you can use some time sync protocol between the subs and get from that an approx relative position Mar 07 21:51:58 johnrobotics: with some calc you could get to a very good estimate of the abs position by that Mar 07 21:52:55 KotH: not sure what you mean, we only have one sub, no secondary vehicles Mar 07 21:53:02 oh.. Mar 07 21:53:06 i thought you had a group of them Mar 07 21:53:10 sorry, doesnt work then Mar 07 21:53:25 Koth: Unfortunatly not - these guys are expensive! Mar 07 21:53:44 make them cheap! mass produce them! flood the pool! :) Mar 07 21:53:50 hehe Mar 07 21:54:02 lol if only - mems sub Mar 07 21:54:22 johnrobotics: btw: if you can, get some EEs and MECHs with decent experience on board Mar 07 21:54:38 johnrobotics: you can get quite a bit cheaper if you know how to do electronics and mechanics correctly Mar 07 21:55:32 funnily enough im one of the EE and ME's (dual major) I'm just helping out a ltitle with my programming side (I'm the team lead) trying to learn it all and everyone in my team is a bit new Mar 07 21:55:49 heh Mar 07 21:56:02 well, these challanges are exactly meant to build up experience :) Mar 07 21:56:26 nothing better than a project you are engaged with and want to put a lot of time in Mar 07 21:56:47 also: imho there is nothing better than learning from failurs Mar 07 21:57:38 exactly i love this project - i've learned a lot through this - hoping that i can have a good success story after some of the failures that ive learned from though! Mar 07 21:58:25 * KotH would rather hire someone who had lots of failures and thus know what doesnt work than someone who had just one success Mar 07 21:58:42 with the latter you never know whether he was good or just got good advice Mar 07 22:00:16 there it goes, KotH would only hire someone with experience..now how to get experience when not getting a job Mar 07 22:00:40 Humpelstilzchen: i didnt say that Mar 07 22:01:08 Humpelstilzchen: but if i get 3 students to choose from, someone who has done stuff is always better than someone who hasnt Mar 07 22:01:28 and it's less for the experience than more for the fire in heart he feels for his profession Mar 07 22:05:49 got a questions for you guys again, I've unpacked the image - i dont know the location of my SD card and i follow theyre approriate command of "sudo ./setup_sdcard.sh --probe-mmc" but fdisk -l returns nothing and i still cannot identify the right part? Mar 07 22:07:33 have a look at your /var/log/kern.log when you insert the card Mar 07 22:07:52 you should see at least the creation of the device file Mar 07 22:22:27 gotta restart my comp real quick - brb Mar 07 23:00:10 hi guys for someone interested in learning about micrco controllers, what are some tips you guys have for beginners ? Mar 07 23:05:37 Hrmm if the BBB was just a little smaller Mar 07 23:52:12 alexi5: arduinos? other? there are tons of them... Mar 07 23:52:48 maybe get a kit/book at radio shack at fire-sale price? Mar 07 23:53:20 * nerdboy got a propeller board on clearance for $7 Mar 08 02:09:31 Anybody have any idea why 'sudo poweroff' or 'sudo shutdown now' does nothing? Mar 08 02:10:16 I can only shutdown with the pushbutton next to the ethernet connector. **** ENDING LOGGING AT Sun Mar 08 02:59:58 2015