**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Dec 11 02:59:58 2015 Dec 11 04:58:25 but the xM doesn't use an omap; it uses a Digital Media processor Dec 11 05:04:54 ds2: it's an omap36xx Dec 11 05:05:18 modulo efuse and packaging Dec 11 05:05:43 calling it dm37xx instead of omap37xx was just a marketing decision Dec 11 05:06:31 you can actually still stumble over references to "omap37xx" on rare occasion Dec 11 05:11:30 actually packages are mostly the same too... omap36xx only has two more options (CBK and CYN) Dec 11 05:13:46 officially it is an dm3730 Dec 11 05:14:02 just try to buy a omap36xx Dec 11 05:16:50 omap34xx and omap36xx are the versions for handsets Dec 11 05:17:03 omap35xx and am/dm37xx are their broadmarket equivalents Dec 11 05:21:03 i.e. only two die series: omap34xx/35xx (jtag part code 0xb7ae) and omap36xx/37xx (jtag part code 0xb891) Dec 11 05:21:37 not counting the am35xx here (0xb868) since that's really an odd beast Dec 11 05:23:11 remaining differentiation is feature-bits, speed grades, support, marketing, etc Dec 11 05:23:51 just like the AM335x is suddenly a DRA60x/61x if you're an automotive customer Dec 11 05:25:35 anyhow, I'm gonna chill a bit and then get some zZ Dec 11 08:05:38 OMAP 5432 uEVM: can't get any HDMI output. At boot time, it just says [3.560440] conector-hdmi connector@0: failed to find video source (repeats a few times) Dec 11 08:05:54 My old Ubuntu 13.10 image still works when I swap that SDcard back in, so I don't think it's the cable or monitor. I have also tried with three different HDMI LCD panels. Dec 11 08:05:59 I have tried editing /boot/uEnv.txt and setting the resolution via: cmdline=coherent_pool=1M quiet video=HDMI-A-1:1920x1080@60e ... no effect though. It's always the same messages. Seems related to the image considering it works if I pop the old Ubuntu 13.10 image in. Any suggestions? Dec 11 08:13:45 and what image are you running? Dec 11 10:00:42 Too bad the EVE isn't supported on the AM5728. That would make the Beagleboard-X15 a lot more interesting. Dec 11 13:58:37 Hello Dec 11 13:58:54 i have a basic question about making sdcard for begalbone Dec 11 13:59:21 latest version of ubuntu gives error for mkcard.sh in sfdisk Dec 11 13:59:33 and other option to make bootable sdcard for begalbone Dec 11 13:59:53 there should be ready made images of ubuntu Dec 11 14:00:13 i have MLO, uboot and rootfs Dec 11 14:00:24 i have to make a sdcard and flash new files Dec 11 14:00:46 why are you doing this manually? Dec 11 14:01:08 By mistake i deleted the eMMC files Dec 11 14:02:51 so are you trying to restore the eMMC or are you trying to boot Ubuntu from SD card? Dec 11 14:03:37 actually i want to restore the emmc Dec 11 14:03:53 so i thought i can boot from mmc and flash on emmc Dec 11 14:04:14 http://elinux.org/BeagleBoardUbuntu#eMMC:_BeagleBone_Black.2FGreen Dec 11 14:04:55 okh Dec 11 14:05:03 thanx i will go through this one Dec 11 17:33:56 Hi again Dec 11 18:50:24 anyone have thoughts about these kernel features for bbx15? https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=807624#10 Dec 11 18:51:01 CONFIG_PCI_DRA7XX CONFIG_SPI_TI_QSPI CONFIG_VIDEO_TI_VPE Dec 11 18:51:10 CONFIG_SND_DAVINCI_SOC_MCASP Dec 11 18:51:19 are they relevent to beagle-x15? Dec 11 18:51:27 guess i should post to the list... Dec 11 19:45:58 vagrantc: anything with DRA7XX in the name is relevant Dec 11 19:46:49 vagrantc: at least, it's applicable to the cpu, though you may choose to omit PCIe unless you have an expansion board which makes it usable Dec 11 19:47:02 (adding PCI has significant impact on the kernel) Dec 11 19:47:35 zmatt, you wrote something with AM335x and automotive this morning... Dec 11 19:48:48 nerienna: yes, see also http://www.spinics.net/lists/linux-omap/msg124257.html Dec 11 19:50:20 * zmatt is still grumpy about the lack of a c6a811x-based beagle... or even a publicly released c6a811x for that matter Dec 11 19:50:37 zmatt: significant, in size? if it's a multiplatform kernel with other PCI platforms already enabled, does adding DRA7XX matter much? Dec 11 19:50:47 vagrantc: then no Dec 11 19:51:13 vagrantc: the big impact is whether or not PCI support needs to be compiled in Dec 11 19:51:26 and it pulls in a host of other stuff by default Dec 11 19:51:41 like suddenly you might have a VGA graphics card connected via PCI Dec 11 19:52:26 next link for an email to me... Dec 11 19:52:45 zmatt: makes sense. Dec 11 19:52:56 nerienna: hmm? Dec 11 19:53:24 I need the link at work Dec 11 19:53:31 ahh Dec 11 19:54:16 nerienna: note that I have no idea what the deal is with dra61x vs dra60x .. you'd think the final digit would already be sufficient to indicate feature set Dec 11 19:55:17 it indicates that TI is rather expanding the chip family than reducing it Dec 11 19:55:22 nerienna: see also http://www.ti.com/lit/sl/ssay002a/ssay002a.pdf Dec 11 19:55:58 customers didn't want AM 335x because they thaught it was to old Dec 11 19:56:10 nerienna: yeah, same with dm81xx ... from a broadmarket perspective dm814x looks barely alive and dm811x/c6a811x was stillborn (an evm existed but disappeared) Dec 11 19:56:53 nerienna: but the automotive version of the 811x is listed as "active" and I've seen evidence in slides and such that is really is Dec 11 19:57:22 most likely they run QNX or so, since linux support is a joke atm Dec 11 19:58:58 this is the latest official TI kernel for it -> https://github.com/dutchanddutch/ti81xx-linux Dec 11 19:59:06 (my personal mirror of it) Dec 11 20:00:04 to many windows open - can't find my thunderbird... we are using the AM3357 at the moment, and I think, we are not hte only ones. Dec 11 20:00:30 am335x is very much alive Dec 11 20:01:00 and it will be for the next years to come Dec 11 20:01:13 industrial apps, so yes I'd hope so. Dec 11 20:01:29 a big difference between am335x and the other jacinto members is video Dec 11 20:01:53 this makes am335x much much easier to support, both in the software sense and in the tech support sense Dec 11 20:01:55 That's the feature we don't need Dec 11 20:02:15 we neither Dec 11 20:02:34 we need the eqeps, pwms, ains and gpios Dec 11 20:02:46 we wanted arm + dsp though, so the C6-Integra line was exactly what we were looking for Dec 11 20:02:53 but it vanished Dec 11 20:03:38 controlling 5 motors, 3 with encoders 2 with voltage output Dec 11 20:04:04 arm + dsp would have been nice... Dec 11 20:04:27 yes, hence I'm cursing TI for letting the 811x die (from a broadmarket perspective) Dec 11 20:04:34 it's like inbetween the dm814x and am335x Dec 11 20:04:40 why are beagleboard XMs hard to buy, but the Blacks are easy? Dec 11 20:04:47 honestly either board works for me, but I really like the four USB ports on the XM Dec 11 20:05:36 ARM + DSP + dual cortex-M3 from dm814x, + all the pruss/pwmss stuff from am335x (I think adc too) Dec 11 20:05:48 less video-capable than dm814x, but who cares Dec 11 20:06:05 hello Dec 11 20:06:14 anyone here to help? Dec 11 20:06:17 Simonious, the Xm used 'pop' memory... it's getting harder and harder to find... Dec 11 20:06:24 but I guess they chose to focus all their efforts on Vayu (dra75x / am572x) Dec 11 20:07:04 rcn-ee: I'm told they are still made, but I sure can't get one. Dec 11 20:07:21 I have BBB connected via USB, Cloud9 up and running. But if i do "npm install update" Dec 11 20:07:26 it gives a network error Dec 11 20:07:28 Simonious, they don't make droid 3/4/5's anymore and nokia stopped... Dec 11 20:07:37 the industry went away from pop... Dec 11 20:07:46 * Simonious nods Dec 11 20:07:52 * Simonious is looking at USB capes... Dec 11 20:08:21 my husband has a AM57xx (don't know exactly which, not officially released) Dec 11 20:08:34 they have lots of problems Dec 11 20:08:52 nerienna, "which" problem... Dec 11 20:09:00 nerienna: no shit, it's a monster Dec 11 20:09:17 part of being a "beta" tester with a "beta" board is to one: report "problems" so we can 'fix' it... Dec 11 20:09:24 last version did work, newer doesn't Dec 11 20:09:56 nerienna, "last version did work, newer doesn't" of "what"? Dec 11 20:12:11 some plls didn't lock in the new revision, they are still working on finding out what is causing the troubles Dec 11 20:13:20 nerienna, bare metal programming? Then you better talk with zmatt .;) Dec 11 20:14:14 rcn-ee: I discovered something disturbing yesterday btw: the AM5718 is currently cheaper than the DM8148 @ 1ku Dec 11 20:14:51 zmatt, that's crazy! ;) they must be charging by the die size then... Dec 11 20:15:18 (or they have a large number of broken am572x/dra7's..) Dec 11 20:16:17 rcn-ee: or they don't care about anyone making a new design with the DM8148, and squeeze money out of those with an existing design for whom it's more expensive to redesign with a different chip Dec 11 20:19:36 DM8148 r3.0 is 48.75 / 54.60 / 58.50 depending on speed grade, or 77.50 for extended temperature (lowest speed grade only) Dec 11 20:20:30 DM8147 (lacks SGX) is 45.00 / 48.00 / 55.00 Dec 11 20:20:39 I like the AM3358 on the BBBlack. Dec 11 20:21:47 the AM335x is okay-ish... they got some nice subsystems together, the overall infra seems to work okayish, not too many issues Dec 11 20:22:19 Indeed. Then again I'm a n00b at embedded and haven't done any DSP-level work, so I'd not miss it. (shrug) Dec 11 20:22:31 the way the a8 and the m3 team up is an interesting concept Dec 11 20:22:44 pruss is sweet of course Dec 11 20:23:02 My thoughts exactly. Dec 11 20:23:10 whoever did the prcm deserves to be beaten with a cane Dec 11 20:24:34 the (presumably co-designed) pmic and its interaction with rtcss is really awkward and could have used much more attention Dec 11 20:25:01 Haven't hit that; best case I won't. (grin) Dec 11 20:25:08 well Dec 11 20:26:46 qthe only way to cleanly shut down the system is by scheduling one in the future using the RTC Dec 11 20:27:19 you can notice a ~1s delay when you shut down a BBB Dec 11 20:28:07 That does sound awkward but I expect at any level I'm liable to use that's just a system call that obfuscates such detail. Dec 11 20:28:59 yeah but if you say "I like the AM3358" it's appropriate to discuss the processor, not the glossy layer of hacks the kernel layered over it :) Dec 11 20:29:16 lol Fair enough. Dec 11 20:29:26 also a nice one: the power button can't be used to wake up a system from suspend Dec 11 20:29:36 I'll be able to speak to that more intelligently once I've had the need to read that chapter. Dec 11 20:30:06 it can wake up on timer, any gpio0 pin, uart0 activity, pen touch (when using resistive touchscreen) Dec 11 20:30:21 but not the power button Dec 11 20:30:40 (raises eyebrow) Is there a hack for that? Dec 11 20:30:55 put a button on a gpio0 pin Dec 11 20:31:17 That's the obvious one, but I was wondering if a more elegant hack existed. Dec 11 20:31:38 yeah, the pmic irq should have been routed to a gpio0 pin Dec 11 20:31:42 shoot.. the USB hub I've got seems to make the BBB angry. if ONLY it had even two USB ports instead of one :/ Dec 11 20:32:02 Simonious: it does, with some ugly hack Dec 11 20:32:07 yeah? Dec 11 20:32:47 I need a USB drive as a consumable drive for data logging (the SD card is used for the OS and I don't want to burn that up) - I need another USB port for a wireless dongle Dec 11 20:32:50 Simonious: you can configure the device port as host port instead... just need some creative wiring and figure out what to do with the 5v Dec 11 20:33:09 oh.. hmm Dec 11 20:33:09 Simonious: why use SD card for the OS instead of eMMC ? Dec 11 20:33:23 then data log to SD Dec 11 20:33:25 the eMMC is my backup OS Dec 11 20:33:38 I've got ubuntu in for both of them.. Dec 11 20:34:01 you can't trim some fat and keep both on eMMC? Dec 11 20:34:10 note btw that a wireless dongle is quite power hungry Dec 11 20:34:18 many people have problems using those without a powered hub Dec 11 20:34:51 I might be able to do that, but I want to se the eMMC as little as possible - I've got a history of logging so much to flash that the flash fails Dec 11 20:35:21 Ragnorok: the problem is that the example connection diagram for the PMIC hooks it up to a special irq pin of the AM335x Dec 11 20:35:45 Ragnorok: I don't even understand why the pin exists Dec 11 20:35:46 zmatt: power hungry isn't an issue, lack of wired network is, in this case. Dec 11 20:36:16 Ragnorok: but the resulting irq is *only* available to the Cortex-A8 Dec 11 20:36:38 Ragnorok: which is powered off in suspend mode Dec 11 20:36:57 Ragnorok: so when you press the power button, the pmic signals an event via its irq pin Dec 11 20:37:43 but there's no way for the wakeup-m3 to know about this and wake up the system Dec 11 20:37:44 I *can* just go back to the RPi, but I think the BB is a more reliable device. I'm hung up on the lack of USB ports at the moment :P And wishing I could find some BB XMs Dec 11 20:37:59 That is a curious arrangement. It knocks on the door but nobody's home. Dec 11 20:38:31 Simonious: power hungry is an issue since people have had problems getting the BBB to source enough power via the USB port Dec 11 20:38:57 ah ha! So I'll be happy to go to a HUB anyway - once I find one it likes. Dec 11 20:39:13 Simonious: usb just sucks Dec 11 20:39:20 it really hates this one: Dec 11 20:39:30 [ 122.018085] usb 1-1-port4: unable to enumerate USB device Dec 11 20:39:30 [ 122.588049] usb 1-1.4: device descriptor read/64, error -71 Dec 11 20:39:31 [ 122.788047] usb 1-1.4: device descriptor read/64, error -71 Dec 11 20:39:32 Simonious: with some creativity you could also hook up another SD card interface to mmc2 Dec 11 20:39:43 * Simonious ponders Dec 11 20:39:58 all true, just more time and effort Dec 11 20:39:59 Simonious, broken usb cable... Dec 11 20:39:59 Simonious: usb is crap, both in general and especially on the bbb Dec 11 20:40:07 or that Dec 11 20:40:29 rcn-ee: you think so? I was just using that hub on the desktop linux box w/ no trouble Dec 11 20:40:30 USB is crap, in general. Worst interface I can think if in recent memory. Yet we're shackled with it. Dec 11 20:40:57 Ragnorok: I wouldn't say shackled... I've often enough run BBBs with usb disabled entirely in the kernel Dec 11 20:41:03 # CONFIG_USB is not set Dec 11 20:41:06 so satisfying Dec 11 20:41:08 Alright, I'll bite - qualify 'USB is crap' for me. I think of it as a nice interface. Dec 11 20:41:12 desktop's handle tolerances better.. musb on the bbb needs exact hardware.. Dec 11 20:41:34 there's also a known incompatibility with certain low-speed devices Dec 11 20:41:52 zmatt: Well I meant it's a common i'face that is largely difficult to avoid on devices at large. Dec 11 20:41:57 or anything sold as "usb" ;) Dec 11 20:42:38 and if it's a wifi device, disable "hdmi"... magicly works better... Dec 11 20:43:00 Simonious: It's flakey and inconsistent, in that devices will work fine one time and not the next. Or they'll only work if they're on a hub, even though they aren't drawing power from USB. Dec 11 20:43:11 rcn-ee: no I mean, there's a real incompat there in the sense that musb violates the protocol and devices would be perfectly justified in not-working... most however do, and it only applies to low speed mode Dec 11 20:43:19 rcn-ee: that sounds like power Dec 11 20:43:32 hdmi framer draws continuous power once enabled Dec 11 20:43:53 and i think it overpowers the wifi antenna... Dec 11 20:43:57 Ragnorok: Alright, that anecdote is outside of my experience. For me it's been very good. Dec 11 20:44:08 rcn-ee: with EMI you mean?? ewwww Dec 11 20:44:20 Simonious: Sure 90% of the stuff Just Works (tm), but when it doesn't work, it's tragically obtuse to make it happy. Dec 11 20:44:36 yeap... specially those really small, inside usb shell wifi adapters.. Dec 11 20:44:42 Simonious: qualifying 'USB is crap' involves understanding it at a technical level Dec 11 20:44:43 Ragnorok: For me that has always come down to finding the right driver. Dec 11 20:45:39 I have a USB 'scope for instance that works fine until I plug in an Arduino, then won't work unless it's on a hub. I have a doc scanner that claims to be USB3 but it won't work unless it's on a 2.0 hub, regardless of any other condition. Dec 11 20:45:41 Simonious: but part of it is that it was meant for really cheap dumb simple devices, like mice and keyboard Dec 11 20:45:58 Is USB better than what came before it? Serial, Parallel, Firewire (AKA IEEE?)? Dec 11 20:46:08 Firewire!!!! <3 Dec 11 20:46:12 I've never had any issues with Firewire. Dec 11 20:46:22 I've never had any devices with Firewire... Dec 11 20:46:27 It was the last interface, except Ethernet, that worked pretty much all the time. Dec 11 20:46:43 Simonious: http://firewireexpert.blogspot.nl/2009/05/dollar-deal-that-almost-killed-firewire.html Dec 11 20:47:27 Simonious: note that USB 1 and Firewire were not in competition Dec 11 20:47:35 USB 1 was for things like mice and keyboard Dec 11 20:47:43 maybe a 9600 baud modem Dec 11 20:48:45 Actually for *just* mice and keyboard, USB is bang-on reliable. Dec 11 20:49:07 note that usb "low speed" is 1.5 Mbit/s and "full speed" is 12 Mbit/s Dec 11 20:49:18 much of which is wasted on overhead Dec 11 20:49:21 zmatt: great article Dec 11 20:49:24 Farther away from that the flakier it gets. Dec 11 20:49:27 zmatt: sad story Dec 11 20:49:28 since really dumb devices meant the host needs to micro-manage it Dec 11 20:49:34 everything is polled Dec 11 20:50:11 the devices just cough up hardcoded descriptors and leave it to the host to figure out how to handle them Dec 11 20:50:47 zmatt: This is the sort of thing I always assumed happend to Fireware. It was too good for any other scenario. Dec 11 20:50:52 that's also why usb is strictly master-slave Dec 11 20:51:01 turning it around made no sense at all Dec 11 20:51:09 firewire otoh is fully symmetrical Dec 11 20:51:33 and firewire 400 is faster in practice than high-speed (480 Mbit) USB Dec 11 20:51:52 _really_ sad story Dec 11 20:52:17 It was Apple. They have ever been dictatorial. Dec 11 20:52:26 when I still had a laptop with firewire I often used it to transfer files to my server (connect cable, automatically shows up as networking device in linux) Dec 11 20:52:41 yeah, I don't mind using Apple stuff, but don't spend my money on it. Dec 11 20:53:47 it's really sad Dec 11 20:53:49 A wifi cape for the BBB would solve my problem Dec 11 20:53:52 * Simonious looks around Dec 11 20:54:04 because usb 2 basically won by first-mover effect due to apple delaying firewire Dec 11 20:54:31 I'd gladly switch to an alternate universe where that never happened Dec 11 20:54:36 :/ Dec 11 20:54:43 Hey, I gambled on SCO and lost a few years ago too. Look at BetaMax, best doesn't always make it. Dec 11 20:55:19 zmatt: Did they make 7 seasons of Firefly in that universe too? I think I briefly made contact a few years ago (in a momentof fantasy). Dec 11 20:55:34 Due to Apple being assholes. If they saw the long picture and went for volume income USB would rightly be the footnote. Dec 11 20:55:54 Ragnorok: usb would be there Dec 11 20:55:58 for mice and keyboard :P Dec 11 20:56:04 * Ragnorok imagines 7 seasons of Firefly Dec 11 20:56:07 or maybe not Dec 11 20:56:39 zmatt: Likely so. More' the pity. In my la-la land USB is simply three letter. Dec 11 20:57:31 In my la-la land I would use the letter "s" more effectively as well. Dec 11 20:59:15 Simonious: btw, apparently betamax being better than vhs wasn't quite as clear-cut Dec 11 21:00:00 zmatt: that's fair. In many cases better also costs more, so cheaper/inferior, but capible enough is what we get Dec 11 21:00:23 tapes were also shorter Dec 11 21:00:50 and quality difference was marginal Dec 11 21:01:42 I only need wifi.. but this is the on I've found so far: http://elinux.org/CircuitCo:BeagleBone_TiWi-5E_w/_Chip_Antenna Dec 11 21:01:43 i.e. "possibly slightly better picture + considerably shorter recording length + more expensive = bye bye betamax" Dec 11 21:01:59 firewire vs usb 2 is different Dec 11 21:02:10 firewire was there before usb 2 was even invented Dec 11 21:02:24 and usb 2 is inferior in every way afaik Dec 11 21:03:40 Well if I had a magic wand I'd wave it and give us firewire (except with an omni dirctional plug - like the newish Iphone spade thing. Dec 11 21:04:27 it's easier to see the right orientation with firewire though Dec 11 21:04:57 https://hardwaretexpert.files.wordpress.com/2011/01/firewireport.jpg Dec 11 21:05:03 the angles help a lot Dec 11 21:05:47 it's my wand damnit, I'll go omni if I want, because I think it's an improvement. Dec 11 21:05:51 That's another major beef w/ USB. The plug is not trivially oriented. One must pay close attention or have it fail 50% of the time. Designed by utter turd flower. Dec 11 21:06:12 Ragnorok: for horizontal ports: USB logo on plug goes up Dec 11 21:06:24 requirement for usb certification Dec 11 21:06:41 But the logo is often the exact same color and about half a mm tall. Easily missed. Dec 11 21:06:54 but you're right it sucks Dec 11 21:07:14 The bottom is usually not smooth. Just rubbing one's finger on both sides in the murk does not clearly identity the correct orientation. Dec 11 21:07:30 there is a joke in there somewhere Dec 11 21:07:45 Maybe I need to stroke it... Dec 11 21:07:57 other niceity of firewire: a device with two or more ports is required to be a bus-powered switch (even if the device is otherwise self-powered) Dec 11 21:08:40 hmm, I can't actually find a BB wifi cape for sale.. Dec 11 21:08:41 so take a dead (but not too-dead) mac, no power cable, and you still have a firewire switch Dec 11 21:09:07 we use those old MACs for DEOS... >,> Dec 11 21:10:30 because powerPC Dec 11 21:13:47 powerpc is nice too Dec 11 21:14:04 plus that means you got open firmware! :) Dec 11 21:14:06 It flys your planes Dec 11 21:14:10 Deos is a time and space partitioned real-time operating system (RTOS) that was first certified to DO-178B level A in 1998. Dec 11 21:14:25 Simonious: ever seen open firmware? Dec 11 21:14:36 zmatt: no Dec 11 21:16:22 boot any PCI-based PowerPC mac while holding down cmd-opt-O-F Dec 11 21:16:44 (note nearly all PPC macs are PCI-based, only a very few ancient ones were still NuBus) Dec 11 21:19:34 anybody know where to find a wifi cape or a usb cape? my google fu failed Dec 11 21:24:11 Simonious: open firmware is where device trees came from: it presented an API for the OS to query it, but since linux didn't want to reserve ram to keep OF intact they made a little helper that would traverse OF's device tree and serialize it into a flattened format, then pass that "flattened device tree" to the kernel Dec 11 21:24:34 this later became a file format for devices with no actual Open Firmware Dec 11 21:25:06 thus the dtb was born Dec 11 21:25:16 zmatt: that sounds good - what did this gain me? Dec 11 21:25:42 a way to describe your hardware to the OS Dec 11 21:28:09 on OF systems this information would either be hardcoded part of the firmware or auto-detected by it, so the OS wouldn't need to concern itself with figuring out what the fuck it was running on Dec 11 21:28:50 Historical data on computing is all interesting. Dec 11 21:29:38 it also had a nifty feature where PCI devices could embed basic driver code in a platform-independent bytecode format Dec 11 21:30:17 guh.. now the BBB isn't excepting ssh logins. Dec 11 21:30:27 this meant your boot disk could be attached to some nifty high-speed SCSI controller card or whatever Dec 11 21:30:38 without BIOS needing a specific driver for it Dec 11 21:31:20 it would just detect the card and use the bytecode-driver to be able to identify a bootable disk on it Dec 11 21:31:53 (once the OS takes over it would hopefully have a *fast* driver to replace it obviously) Dec 11 21:33:34 s/BIOS/OF/ (I was thinking of the analogy and my hands accidently typed it) Dec 11 21:35:08 I think it's time for me to fly. Good weekend all. Dec 11 22:19:11 * GenTooMan reads scroll back "google FU or fu" :D **** ENDING LOGGING AT Sat Dec 12 02:59:59 2015