**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Jun 13 03:00:01 2017 Jun 13 03:05:02 oh my Jun 13 03:05:29 someone just came out with a beaglebone driven direct lithography circuit board etcher with 6 mil trace reproduction Jun 13 03:05:49 oh god its a cape Jun 13 03:06:11 ldgraphy.org Jun 13 03:39:11 Hi Jun 13 03:39:49 I just started using BBGW Jun 13 03:40:41 I am unable disable my heartbeat led's on my board Jun 13 03:40:52 can somebady help on this? Jun 13 03:43:10 Venkat: led configuration is in /sys/class/leds/ Jun 13 03:59:05 arfbarker: in case you haven't realized yet: the only relationship this channel has with dogs is that there's one in the name and logo :) http://beagleboard.org/logo Jun 13 08:19:38 Anyone experience with relay drivers? I try to get a ULN2003 (http://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/uln2003lv.pdf) driver to push out 5V so it can switch a high current relay, with 5V from SYS_5V to the COM pin on the chip, but I only get 0.5 volt out of an OUT pin. Jun 13 08:19:46 I seem to be missing something, Jun 13 08:47:21 hmm Jun 13 08:48:13 Or might it that I just have blown up the chip? I’ll try another one. Jun 13 08:49:52 btw if you need a lot of current, it would be better to draw from the 5v input power (strangely labeled "vdd_5v") rather than sys_5v Jun 13 08:50:21 ahh Jun 13 08:50:46 I think you misunderstand how the driver is meant to be used :) Jun 13 08:51:13 it's an open-drain output Jun 13 08:52:11 Hi Jun 13 08:52:45 johanhenselmans: connect 5V -> relay -> OUTx, not OUTx -> relay -> GND Jun 13 08:52:46 is there anybody here knows how to enable bluetooth on beaglebone black board Jun 13 08:53:15 johanhenselmans: do also connect 5V to COM, otherwise you may blow up the driver when you switch the relay off Jun 13 09:21:03 Ahh, that explains a lot. Thanks zmatt! Jun 13 10:04:41 hello Jun 13 10:05:51 is there any specific beagleboard that can be used for car os project such as Automotive Grade Linux? Jun 13 10:11:22 does it require specific hardware? Jun 13 10:16:27 well it does require CAN support Jun 13 10:16:57 which is no problem Jun 13 10:17:33 both the am335x (beaglebone) and am572x (beagleboard x15) have CAN Jun 13 10:18:01 you only need an external transceiver Jun 13 10:18:21 (or a cape that integrates one) Jun 13 10:20:47 ahh, yes , ty zmatt Jun 13 14:18:47 hi there all Jun 13 14:19:45 Just drop by to ask about usage of Beagle board Jun 13 14:21:19 I am having beagle Board bone but not using and like to set it up as file server. I am aware its how some of you will be using. My questions that I can't use router but just want to set up board as file server with adding wifi adapter Jun 13 14:23:37 Running OS is Debian and my desktop Debian has hot-spot feature I am using to connect 2 - 3 mobile device. Find it that in built wifi on laptop is weak. Will USB Wi Fi adapter better than laptop inbuilt wifi module ? Jun 13 14:24:18 Will it works if I use USB wifi adapter with BBB without router ? Jun 13 14:42:10 hey Jun 13 16:45:17 Hi, I have no idea how to use IRC :( Jun 13 16:45:39 I have a question about the onboard debugging versus adding a JTAG header Jun 13 16:47:36 Do I gain anything by adding the JTAG header and using a JTAG debug pod? Jun 13 16:49:31 @new-nick You may want to look up "Pirate Box" Jun 13 16:53:57 Nate_: there are only a very few real use cases for jtag Jun 13 16:54:16 Nate_: for 99% of all users operating system debug capabilities are more than sufficient Jun 13 16:55:38 The onboard debug is also JTAG right? Is there a difference? Jun 13 16:56:01 what do you mean by "onboard debug" anyway? Jun 13 16:56:15 Nate_: what are you trying to do in the first place? Jun 13 16:56:24 I thought there was an onboard debug port, via USB Jun 13 16:56:56 there are subtle differences, which device are you talking about? Jun 13 16:57:02 I just need to learn embedded linux, I have used other embedded OS but not linux Jun 13 16:57:34 if your goal is to learn about embedded linux, forget about JTAG, completely Jun 13 16:57:40 you will not need that, ever Jun 13 16:57:50 BeagleBoardBlack has some on board debugging. I am not sure what I would gain by adding the JTAG header versus just using onboard debugging. Jun 13 16:58:33 tbr: I would like to have the option of working on the bootloader also, I think that requires JTAG? Jun 13 16:58:41 no does not Jun 13 16:58:43 mau. Jun 13 16:59:27 what you really MUST have is access to the debug UART port Jun 13 16:59:34 which is NOT the USB port Jun 13 17:00:04 tbr: oh, hmm, I guess I don't know enough about BBB to know what I need Jun 13 17:00:13 rule 1 of embedded linux club: everything is easier if you have UART access Jun 13 17:00:23 tbr++ Jun 13 17:00:26 I've worked on RTOS (similar to linux) and nootloader for it before Jun 13 17:00:45 yes, you worked on essentially bare metal Jun 13 17:00:46 when working *on* the bootloader (as in, doing u-boot development), jtag can be useful Jun 13 17:01:27 yes, I didn't want to confuse things further by exploring the niches where jtag might be useful in context of U-Boot Jun 13 17:01:48 "18:58 < Nate_> tbr: I would like to have the option of working on the bootloader also" Jun 13 17:02:17 zmatt: yes, but even that might still work out with UART Jun 13 17:02:57 So what I don't understand is the difference between the onboard debug via USB and the JTAG header debugging via pod Jun 13 17:03:22 there's no on-board debug via usb in the beaglebone black Jun 13 17:03:31 what you call "via USB" is very high level and not hardware Jun 13 17:03:31 only the original beagleboard (white) had integrated jtag Jun 13 17:04:01 I'm assuming you're referring to that? Jun 13 17:04:03 Oh, OK, how you program it? Jun 13 17:04:10 or not? Jun 13 17:04:40 if you have an OS running (e.g. linux) then you just do debugging like you would on any other computer Jun 13 17:04:40 maybe it's just that USB is sold as ultimate developer access in context of BBB Jun 13 17:04:44 while it isn't Jun 13 17:05:02 indeed, I never use it Jun 13 17:05:18 if you have a choice between JTAG and UART, do UART, it's also cheaper as a bonus Jun 13 17:05:21 zmatt: OK, so BBB is mainly for application work, right? Jun 13 17:05:28 and the header is already populated Jun 13 17:05:41 Nate_: I don't understand the question Jun 13 17:06:14 zmatt: think microcontroller/RTOS mindset approaching the BBB like one of that. We keep getting such people every now and then. Jun 13 17:06:20 fair enough Jun 13 17:06:28 zmatt: "if you have an OS running (e.g. linux) then you just do debugging like you would on any other computer" this would be application work, not learnign about linux kernel or switching to RT Linux Jun 13 17:06:50 you also debug the linux kernel like any other computer Jun 13 17:07:28 if you want to be able to set a breakpoint and single-step inside the bootloader, kernel, or baremetal applications (i.e. running without OS), then you need JTAG Jun 13 17:07:33 tbr: I come from RTOS for Cortex MCUs background, Linux is new to me Jun 13 17:07:46 yes, forget all you know about RTOS and MCUs Jun 13 17:07:48 or I think the kernel also has some integrated debugger, but I have no idea how it works and if it's any use Jun 13 17:07:54 this is different and much more complex Jun 13 17:07:59 tbr: that's a bit excessive, you *can* run an RTOS on the BBB Jun 13 17:08:04 it's just not commonly done Jun 13 17:08:13 zmatt: kgdb, over UART or network Jun 13 17:08:32 zmatt: OK, so the onboard debugging is application level only Jun 13 17:08:38 tbr: like a gdb server? Jun 13 17:08:46 zmatt: kinda, Jun 13 17:09:05 zmatt: apparently including breakpoints and such Jun 13 17:09:07 Nate_: the term "onboard debugging" sounds like you're thinking it's a BBB feature Jun 13 17:09:47 onboard debugging is a kernel and application provided feature in this case. think like printf debugging but a milion times more complex Jun 13 17:09:49 Nate_: if you run linux on the BBB, it's just a small computer... you can therefore run a debugger on it (or an entire IDE if you want) Jun 13 17:10:25 zmatt: I thought it was a feature of BBB Jun 13 17:10:36 Nate_: no, it's a feature of it simply being a computer Jun 13 17:10:49 hence it does computery things :P Jun 13 17:11:12 but being a small computer with tons of interfaces, it's also embedded Jun 13 17:11:19 Like the TI AM335x Starter Kit, I thought that was similar and had onboard JTAG debugging Jun 13 17:12:18 I think looking at a book about embedded linux could be a good idea. there is one by o'reilly IIRC and there's Chris' book Jun 13 17:12:25 https://www.packtpub.com/networking-and-servers/mastering-embedded-linux-programming Jun 13 17:12:31 Nate_: the starter kit has an integrated JTAG debugger yes Jun 13 17:13:06 But beagleboard does not have this? Jun 13 17:13:39 as I said, the beaglebone white had it, they dropped it in the beaglebone black since almost nobody uses it Jun 13 17:13:45 http://shop.oreilly.com/product/9780596529680.do Jun 13 17:14:01 and the JTAG chip was very expensive Jun 13 17:15:29 So no onboard JTAG, got it, thought there was Jun 13 17:15:52 Is beagle board white still supported? Or is it obselete old HW? Jun 13 17:16:49 if you want use JTAG on the beaglebone black, you have to solder on the 20-pin header on the bottom side and get a jtag debugger (~ $80 or so) Jun 13 17:16:55 the white is considered obsolete Jun 13 17:17:32 zmatt: OK Jun 13 17:18:11 note: it's "beaglebone", not "beagleboard"... there are beagleboards as well, but they're obsolete (original beagleboard, and the -xm) or new, hot, and unavailable (the bb-x15) Jun 13 17:18:47 I think I should get the TI Starter Kit, it would cover all the bases for me Jun 13 17:18:58 I'll once again say, if you want to learn about embedded Linux. Get a UART adapter, not JTAG Jun 13 17:19:29 (you want access to the uart in all cases anyway) Jun 13 17:19:48 a BBB is perfectly fine for learning embedded linux, heck even an RPi would be if there wouldn't be all this bad advice by clueless people Jun 13 17:20:56 Nate_: the SK is more expensive than BBB + jtag adapter, but yeah it may be more convenient if you want integrated jtag (and it has integrated usb-to-uart for the console too I think) Jun 13 17:21:15 it's just a bit meh that it has only 256 MB of ram Jun 13 17:21:51 zmatt: small RAM, that is true Jun 13 17:22:07 and no eMMC Jun 13 17:22:58 zmatt: has sd though Jun 13 17:23:18 on the other hand it does have dual ethernet and wifi... so there's pros and there's cons Jun 13 17:23:42 tbr: not sure I understand what you mean by UART, for printf debug statements? Jun 13 17:24:03 zmatt: wifi is a huge bonus IMO Jun 13 17:24:23 there's also the beaglebone black wireless which has wifi (but no ethernet) Jun 13 17:25:17 the bbb obviously also has a lot more I/O accessible... I don't even see any headers on the SK Jun 13 17:26:49 Nate_: no, this goes way way beyond that Jun 13 17:27:12 you'll want access to the serial console (uart0) for many reasons Jun 13 17:27:20 Nate_: actually if you dig deeper into the kernel, then JTAG is useless, but UART is *the* tool Jun 13 17:27:50 consider that your "onboard debug" Jun 13 17:28:06 zmatt: tbr: UART how does it help kernel debugging? Jun 13 17:28:57 Nate_: the kernel will print ordinary messages, you can also just look at the virtual files the kernel exposes also you can run a debugger against the kernel over UART Jun 13 17:29:00 I rarely use either, just enable debug messages at runtime and read them via ssh Jun 13 17:29:16 uart is useful to see debug output if you're crashing during boot Jun 13 17:29:28 or if your kernel PANICs Jun 13 17:29:32 yeah Jun 13 17:29:44 which if you experiment e.g. with kernel modules is bound to happen Jun 13 17:29:49 I think jtag debugging of the kernel is possible but I've never tried it Jun 13 17:30:09 it probably is. Not likely to be very practical Jun 13 17:30:27 think doing a root canal through the anus ;) Jun 13 17:30:31 lol Jun 13 17:31:04 well if you want to debug a specific crash then single-stepping could be useful, if you manage to find a good spot to set a breakpoint or watchpoint Jun 13 17:31:19 hmm, not sure now, I definitely want WIFI, not sure how to get UART debugging though Jun 13 17:31:27 the pain begins when you hit a mutex that's owned by some other thread Jun 13 17:32:00 and not all drivers may be happy about irqs being disabled for a long time Jun 13 17:32:27 Nate_: you buy something that's called a "FTDI USB" thingy, the cheap one Jun 13 17:32:47 http://elinux.org/Beagleboard:BeagleBone_Black_Serial Jun 13 17:32:50 the proper name would be USB-to-serial adapter Jun 13 17:33:03 this cute little one is also nice -> https://www.tindie.com/products/spirilis/beaglebone-black-ftdi-friction-fit/ Jun 13 17:33:04 as it's not just FTDI that manufactures those Jun 13 17:33:42 yeah, I love the trick with the slightly offset through holes to increase friction fit Jun 13 17:35:07 while the BBB will cope with 5V, using proper 3.3V reference voltage is recommended Jun 13 17:35:36 (note: _only_ the console header is 5V tolerant, the rest of the I/O is absolutely not) Jun 13 17:35:38 using RS-232C levels is right out, that would fry things Jun 13 17:36:26 yes and the ADC pins are even more sensitive Jun 13 17:37:25 on an unrelated note, gawd the javascript grammar is awful /o\ ... even the C++ grammar seems clean and readable in comparison Jun 13 17:39:03 Thanks for the advice everyone Jun 13 17:39:24 I am going to buy the TI starter kit since it has wifi and onboard debugging Jun 13 17:39:30 and because i am lazy Jun 13 17:39:47 note: we can't help you with linux on that Jun 13 17:40:45 zmatt++ Jun 13 17:40:58 if you go down starterware alley, you're stuck in TI SDK land, with all its deficiencies Jun 13 17:41:23 why would you use starterware? Jun 13 17:41:35 starter kit Jun 13 17:41:39 sorry Jun 13 17:41:44 got confused, both TI things Jun 13 17:41:46 tbr: true, but it seems like they have a good community over there (e2e forums) Jun 13 17:42:05 we laugh and point fingers at e2e here Jun 13 17:42:15 WIFI and BT are a big bonus for me Jun 13 17:42:16 e2e is not that bad Jun 13 17:42:34 although it used to be better before they "improved" the site -.- Jun 13 17:42:43 Nate_: yes, but wifi and BT you can also have by plugging in USB Jun 13 17:43:04 phschafft: yay, a ++... why did I get it? :) Jun 13 17:43:15 for hating javascript, I guess Jun 13 17:43:24 that's pretty low-hanging fruit Jun 13 17:44:09 tbr: the deed is done, i can't turn back now Jun 13 17:44:17 zmatt++; /* for that fruity comment */ Jun 13 17:44:18 well, good luck Jun 13 17:44:27 lol Jun 13 17:44:47 thanks tbr, i may hate it and sell it and return to BBB Jun 13 17:46:17 lovely, 5 different versions of equality Jun 13 17:46:58 Nate_: consider those books I mentioned Jun 13 17:47:13 tbr: i definitely will Jun 13 17:47:15 it's a quite different world from MCUs Jun 13 17:47:22 oh, and while we are at MCUs Jun 13 17:47:31 the BBB has two of those, built in Jun 13 17:47:37 for real time things and such Jun 13 17:47:45 they are called PRU Jun 13 17:48:03 a core isn't an mcu Jun 13 17:48:14 yeah, oversimplifying again :) Jun 13 17:48:55 tbr: amazon tells me I bought this book in 2015: Building Embedded Linux Systems, 2nd Edition Jun 13 17:49:04 hehe Jun 13 17:49:10 tbr: no idea what I did with it Jun 13 17:49:14 lol Jun 13 17:49:26 books tend to get outdated very fast anyway Jun 13 17:50:14 and I still feel the need to mention that it absolutely *is* possible to treat the AM335x as a slightly overweight MCU, it's just not commonly done Jun 13 17:50:39 so there's not much software ecosystem for baremetal use of the am335x Jun 13 17:51:29 since TI's offering for that (StarterWare) is a steaming pile of pig manure, I even made my own headers for that Jun 13 17:51:31 tbr: found it Jun 13 17:51:51 the fundamentals should still apply Jun 13 17:52:28 form that book, I mean Jun 13 17:52:42 the init system part... well, now it's systemd Jun 13 17:53:19 sweet Jun 13 17:55:15 a full OS gives you much more options and degrees of freedom Jun 13 17:55:33 a full OS gives you convenience Jun 13 17:55:56 yes, mountains of tools that are there "for free" Jun 13 17:56:21 obviously you don't have more *freedom*, you can do more when there's no linux kernel sitting between you and the hardware Jun 13 17:56:30 everything just takes way more effort Jun 13 17:57:04 you don't have to do all the housekeeping yourself though Jun 13 17:57:21 depending on application you may not have that much housekeeping to do Jun 13 17:57:50 running a webserver is just starting it, on an RTOS that might run you into timing problems and what not, I guess? Jun 13 17:57:52 but yeah, linux is just too convenient Jun 13 17:58:15 running a webserver definitely falls in the category "not simple" Jun 13 17:58:24 that pesky linux kernel in the way of the hardware Jun 13 17:58:27 * alan_o shakes fist Jun 13 17:58:43 hehe Jun 13 17:59:26 well it *is* fun and powerful to have unconstrained access to it Jun 13 17:59:41 while true; do { echo -e 'HTTP/1.1 200 OK\r\n'; \ Jun 13 17:59:41 cat index.html; } | nc -l 8080; done Jun 13 17:59:44 :P Jun 13 17:59:45 and having your application running in a blink after power on Jun 13 17:59:52 and expensive to develop for Jun 13 17:59:55 yes Jun 13 17:59:56 but it has good job secuirty Jun 13 17:59:58 (thats how complex a webserver is) Jun 13 18:02:33 fortunately most of my baremetal headers also work under linux (I made some magic glue that automatically maps the regions that were referenced at compile-time into view using /dev/mem and mmap before main() is called) Jun 13 18:02:47 had to reboot Jun 13 18:02:50 just requires being a bit more careful Jun 13 18:05:08 * bradfa filters /dev/mem for the channel Jun 13 18:05:37 sssaa Jun 13 18:06:07 I try to be nice and use uio instead of /dev/mem, but for quick tests the convenience of my magic glue wins ;P Jun 13 18:06:33 * alan_o mmap()s zmatt Jun 13 18:08:53 and e.g. there's no point in trying to use uio instead of /dev/mem when setting up DMA transfers from userspace since that obviously *should* require root privileges anyway Jun 13 18:09:12 * zmatt whistles innocently **** ENDING LOGGING AT Wed Jun 14 03:00:02 2017