**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Feb 13 02:59:56 2019 Feb 13 03:54:00 Hi Feb 13 03:54:51 this chat is dead? Feb 13 03:57:16 absolutely dead! Feb 13 03:57:45 I love it when the trash takes itself out :D such an easy pre-filter :D lol Feb 13 04:37:56 my kvm works Feb 13 04:38:00 I have a shell Feb 13 04:52:31 using asynchronous I/O to send UART IRQs Feb 13 05:27:17 Hi could anyone help me to permenantly boot OS from SD card without boot button press Feb 13 05:59:17 loran: assuming you don't care about the contents of eMMC, wipe it using: sudo blkdiscard /dev/mmcblk1 Feb 13 06:00:58 (normally this isn't required to boot from sd card (since the default u-boot on eMMC will try to load linux from sd card before loading it from eMMC) but it's a good idea to do it anyway if you're working from sd card rather than eMMC) Feb 13 09:23:14 hello beagle Feb 13 09:23:43 i need more information about beaglebone black for company project Feb 13 09:24:10 which information beyond what's in the SRM do you need? Feb 13 09:25:46 what is lifespan of beaglebone black? Feb 13 09:27:03 until it breaks. (please clarify your question) Feb 13 09:28:24 I need information about when beaglebone black's manufacture will close? Feb 13 09:29:00 I need information about when beaglebone black's manufacture will close? Feb 13 09:29:56 you'll have to ask for availability timelines from your distributor / manufacturer Feb 13 09:31:11 distributor / manufacturer ? Feb 13 09:31:21 if you buy 1000kU per year, or better month, i'm sure they will align their timeline with yours :) Feb 13 09:32:34 there are multiple companies manufacturing the BBB and they are using distribution companies for sales Feb 13 09:32:51 suppose any one ask me about how long work this development board? that how can i say it will work 5-6 year. Feb 13 09:33:43 you can check with TI how long they will support and manufacture the AM335x SoC Feb 13 09:33:50 john___: i can happily say that, but it does not matter and i will not stand in for it :) Feb 13 09:33:58 somehow after 5 year BBB manufacture stop. than my project will close? Feb 13 09:34:19 john___: so, ask the place (e.g. distributor) where you intend to buy. Feb 13 09:34:51 hint: we're only random people on the internet and NOT speaking for distributors nor manufacturers Feb 13 09:35:04 i am not a random people. Feb 13 09:35:13 i am a random sandworm! mind the minorities! Feb 13 09:35:47 yeah i know. But you all not understand my question Feb 13 09:35:59 john___: believe me, we do understand perfectly. Feb 13 09:36:07 let i'll explain all about this Feb 13 09:36:38 go ahead. Feb 13 09:37:16 suppose i want to create one project; in that i use BBB and that whole project for one shop. Feb 13 09:37:26 go ahead. Feb 13 09:38:58 after 5 year BBB stop manufacturing. and than after that shop's man person will tell me add some new things in it. and need also that same Board for other shops. THAN ??? Feb 13 09:39:09 how can i manage this question? Feb 13 09:39:48 as usual: you can buy enough board right now that you have enough for 20years, for example. Feb 13 09:40:06 or you can ask your distributor if they are willing to guarantee 5+x years. Feb 13 09:40:16 or you can have a secondary board Feb 13 09:40:36 or you can see what happens, pray and sacrifice a chicken every full moon Feb 13 09:41:18 secondary board means? Feb 13 09:41:27 sorry, but thats how things work. if you are not a large scale customer, you are basically at the mercy of silicon vendors and manufacturer. try to have an emergengy plan and live with it. Feb 13 09:41:48 secondary board means, try to have an alternative that you can swap in with as little work as possible if needed. Feb 13 09:42:44 the secondary board, if current, will have the same problem with availability Feb 13 09:42:51 of course. Feb 13 09:42:54 at roughly the same time ;) Feb 13 09:43:20 just go ahead, and once signs start to show, prepare for a replacement. Feb 13 09:43:49 usually, in the business, there are discontinuation plans, last order slots, etc. be sure to handle those Feb 13 09:44:11 if the manufacturers are diligent... Feb 13 09:44:14 yeah you r right Feb 13 09:44:24 but those are rarely made public until discontinuation is already set it stone. Feb 13 09:44:35 john___: as i promised, we understood you perfectly. Feb 13 09:44:58 yeah. But !!! Feb 13 09:45:15 that's life, deal with it Feb 13 09:45:24 john___: i mean, seriously. about how many boards are we talking? per month, per year? Feb 13 09:46:30 developing of previous board will change if BBB manufacture stopped and want to work with new Board Feb 13 09:47:53 and i don't want to business with any one person at full life time :-) Feb 13 09:48:05 you're not making sense Feb 13 09:48:20 haha Feb 13 09:50:18 if i create a project today on BBB. and tomorrow BBB announce that manufacture will stop in 5 days. than? my total work and time is waste!! Feb 13 09:50:27 shit happens. Feb 13 09:50:45 and usually, discontinuation plans are in the timeframe of several months Feb 13 09:50:56 than what is the option? Feb 13 09:50:57 i repeat. how many boards are we talking about. Feb 13 09:51:20 if you buy boatloads, they will certainly try to make you happy. if not: shit happens. Feb 13 09:51:22 lets say 100000 boards Feb 13 09:51:22 just for only 2 Feb 13 09:51:49 only 2 what Feb 13 09:52:09 2000 BBB need Feb 13 09:52:21 in which timefram? Feb 13 09:52:45 10 years Feb 13 09:52:57 you mean like, 200 a year. Feb 13 09:53:19 no man, 2000 board for 10 year Feb 13 09:53:37 so 2000/year? Feb 13 09:54:01 hello Feb 13 09:54:27 yes, hello. this is #beagle. how can we suit all your manufacturing needs? Feb 13 09:55:01 i need answer from #beagle community or it's developers Feb 13 09:55:37 john___: ok, i repeat. you will not get any, because neither the beagleboard organization nor anybody in this channel manufactures and sells boards. Feb 13 09:56:07 than how can i connect with them? Feb 13 09:56:19 john___: manufacturers do manufacture them, and distributors sell them to you. if you have a serious business question, contact your distributor of choice. Feb 13 09:57:24 if you had looked on the bbb webpage, there's even a "select distributor to buy" dropdown, naming arrow, mouser, element14 and digikey Feb 13 09:57:32 But manufacturers stop the product than how distributor sell that product? Feb 13 09:57:39 feel free to reach out to any of them Feb 13 09:57:49 ohk Feb 13 09:57:50 i have booted bbb from SD card and now i need to make this permenant booting without pressing the boot button every time during power up Feb 13 09:58:06 and without flashing the emmc Feb 13 09:59:14 could anyone help me on this matter Feb 13 09:59:21 loran: look up the sysboot pins in the SRM. by applying a resistor you can change the bootorder. alternatively, destroy the bootloader on the emmc or something comparable Feb 13 09:59:46 how to destroy the bootloader in the emmc Feb 13 10:01:13 flasherase mmcblk something, you'll have to read up the details yourself. the resistor method is certainly less error prone Feb 13 10:10:59 if there's nothing important on the emmc, then flasherase is easy Feb 13 10:22:45 i have erased the emmc with this command sudo blkdiscard /dev/mmcblk1 and now i need to grow sd card space Feb 13 10:45:25 Hi Feb 13 10:45:45 i have beagle bone black boards Feb 13 10:47:27 I have connected two laptops in two devices SoftAp like b1-L1 ,b2-L2 Feb 13 10:47:41 The L1 and L2 unable to communicate Feb 13 10:48:08 here b=beagleboneAp Feb 13 10:48:15 L=laptop Feb 13 10:48:36 any one have any idea about connecting two devices Feb 13 10:48:43 please help me on this Feb 13 10:50:49 you could start out by describing what you mean by "communicate" and "connect" Feb 13 10:52:45 laptop1 connected into beagle1's SoftAp and Laptop2 connected into Beaglebone2's SoftAp Feb 13 10:53:14 When ping from L1 to L2, it shows network unreachable Feb 13 10:53:56 Both beaglebones are connected same wifi network Feb 13 10:54:58 yuva: you mean, you want a laptop to conenct to two access points at the same time? Feb 13 10:55:11 yuva: buy an additional wifi dongle for each laptop :) Feb 13 10:57:29 i thing i need to explain in detail Feb 13 10:57:32 i thing i need to explain in detail Feb 13 10:58:39 beaglebone1 and beaglebone2 are connected in same network Feb 13 10:59:09 laptop1 connected into beaglebone1 accesspoint Feb 13 10:59:31 laptop2 connected into beaglebone2 accesspoint Feb 13 11:00:18 i need to ping laptop1 and laptop2 successfully Feb 13 11:01:07 either use bridging or routing Feb 13 11:01:32 neither are going to be particularly easy out of the box on the default debian image Feb 13 11:02:47 how can i do this bridging or routing? Feb 13 11:03:07 can you please help me with any documentation Feb 13 11:07:21 how can i bridge two beaglebone devices Feb 13 11:08:13 i guess bridging might be the easiest, you'll just need to disable the network configuration for the APs while leaving the AP enabled Feb 13 11:10:03 is there any steps to follow Feb 13 11:46:10 tbr: since when is bridging supported for wifi? Feb 13 11:46:48 yuva: why are you trying to do this? why not have both beaglebones and both laptops just connect to the same wifi network? Feb 13 11:48:19 loran: /opt/scripts/tools/grow_partition.sh Feb 13 11:48:40 loran: this is all stuff you've been told already, and it's getting pretty annoying to have to repeat it Feb 13 11:49:42 loran: also stop asking how to boot from sd card when obviously you already *are* Feb 13 12:13:51 fine i have done. now i'm trying to fix the static ip issue Feb 13 12:14:06 ping: www.google.com: Temporary failure in name resolution Feb 13 12:15:31 i have done with three methods of nameserver configuraiton. 1. configured the static ip address in interfaces file # The primary network interface #auto eth0 iface eth0 inet static address 192.168.0.6 netmask 255.255.255.0 gateway 192.168.0.1 Feb 13 12:15:43 2. nameserver declaration in resolv.conf Feb 13 13:30:00 zmatt: it isn't? I've ben using it on various systems (not the BBB though) Feb 13 14:51:57 tbr: it is typically not supported in station mode, only in AP mode Feb 13 14:53:34 by typically I mean "never, as far as I understand" Feb 13 14:53:37 I thought that's what was the case here, AP mode Feb 13 14:54:17 "Both beaglebones are connected same wifi network" Feb 13 14:54:36 since these are wireless beaglebones, they don't have wired ethernet Feb 13 14:54:55 so they were asking to bridge between the AP and the station modes Feb 13 14:55:27 effectively making a wireless extender, if it worked Feb 13 14:55:29 hmm, didn't notice they said bbbw Feb 13 14:56:12 they haven't, that's the conclusion I draw from the fact they're connected via wifi :P Feb 13 14:56:35 :) Feb 13 14:57:28 does the bbbw card support simultaneous AP and STA mode? Just pondering what they were trying to do. Feb 13 14:57:34 yep Feb 13 14:57:56 ok, that makes a bit more sense then. Feb 13 14:58:29 hence my "why not have both beaglebones and both laptops just connect to the same wifi network?" Feb 13 14:58:33 to which I never got a reply Feb 13 14:58:41 yeah, that makes sense Feb 13 14:59:02 would be so much nicer if people would explain their situation better :) Feb 13 14:59:16 explaining your problem clearly, imagine that Feb 13 15:00:04 zmatt: "i want to buy 3 boards a month and need a signed certification by YOU that i can buy BBBs still in 25 years for my OBSCUREPRODCUT" Feb 13 15:00:17 was that clearly explained enough? ;-) Feb 13 15:00:26 "product" Feb 13 15:00:51 well, that question is clear enough Feb 13 15:00:56 tbr: prodcut sounds more violent. i like. Feb 13 15:01:15 zmatt: see? so y u no helpful? i need! Feb 13 15:01:28 * zmatt slaps LetoThe2nd with a trout Feb 13 15:01:35 LetoThe2nd: I wonder if we should just hand those certificates out by filling out "Merkbefreiungsformulare" :) Feb 13 15:02:02 * LetoThe2nd starts to giggle insanely and runs off in circles. Feb 13 15:02:13 "I'm not selling you any BBB at all. Ask your distributor." Feb 13 16:25:08 m Feb 13 19:09:43 Hi Zmatt, Sorry for pure C++ question. You convinced me to switch to C++. I have run into the struct initialization issue: "non-trivial designated initializers not supported". How do you initialize structs preserving the named assignment. Feb 13 19:09:51 Here is the struct: https://pastebin.com/3kcFAcQM Feb 13 19:38:09 dreamhiker: c++ does not allow to initialize only seclected struct members, or in arbitrary order, by the .structmember syntax Feb 13 19:38:14 dreamhiker: thats about it. Feb 13 19:39:26 yep, for some reason gcc doesn't support designated initializers in arbitrary order when compiling c++ code, not even for plain structs. It's fucking annoying Feb 13 19:39:37 iirc clang++ has no problem with it Feb 13 19:41:12 also, I'm sorry I apparently converted you to use C++. I hope you will some day forgive me Feb 13 19:41:15 ;) Feb 13 19:42:05 zmatt: well the point has a special meaning in c++, as you know. and IIRC designated initializer lists are standardized in c99 or c11, but explicitly non-standard in c++ up to c++20 Feb 13 19:42:29 i even read the rationale about it not being supported, but actually forgot the contents again.. Feb 13 19:43:45 zmatt: and why would one want forgiveness? pure job security! Feb 13 19:43:54 LetoThe2nd: note that gcc will successfully parse it in C++ mode, it just doesn't accept the initializers in arbitrary order Feb 13 19:44:23 zmatt: yeah i know that its in an unfortunate state. Feb 13 19:44:28 it's not an issue of syntactic ambiguity Feb 13 19:46:21 zmatt: ah, but of the initialization order. TLDR, but here it is: https://stackoverflow.com/a/29337570/3151114 Feb 13 19:47:47 I don't understand the objection raised Feb 13 19:48:35 both non-designated initializers in C and C++ and designated initializers in C are evaluated in the order the fields were declared Feb 13 19:48:45 zmatt: don't ask me, i'm just pointing to the resource i found. :-/ Feb 13 19:51:45 although apparently the order is not defined in C anyway, so even if you change it to the order that initializers appear in the source code (which I'd actually endorse), that wouldn't be a breaking change Feb 13 19:53:07 I'm pretty sure though that most people who want designated initializers would be fine if their order is left unspecified Feb 13 19:53:16 I'd rather have that than no designated initializers Feb 13 19:55:24 zmatt: well the SO answer says that there will be some support in c++20 Feb 13 19:55:32 nope Feb 13 19:56:01 I mean, yes it will be "supported" in the same sense that g++ supports it right now. i.e. the syntax exists but is completely useless Feb 13 19:56:25 zmatt, it was not difficult to convince me to switch to C++: language support for threads, templates, namespaces, classes, interfaces ... Feb 13 19:56:52 * LetoThe2nd can't really comment, for not feeling proficient enough with corner cases that could be hit. Feb 13 19:57:49 dreamhiker: please be sure to read "the books": effective c++ and modern effective c++ by scott meyers Feb 13 19:57:55 I completely agree that the initialization order ambiguity is not a good reason disallowing the designated initializers Feb 13 19:59:02 At the same time, relying on the knowledge of the order in struct (which may change) is unacceptable. Feb 13 19:59:28 correct, i.e. the current behaviour in C should be considered as "initializers are executed in arbitrary order" Feb 13 20:00:03 which, if I understand, is also what C11 spec says? Feb 13 20:00:30 thus, I think I will resort to simple tr[0].bits_per_word = 8 Feb 13 20:02:24 "The evaluations of the initialization list expressions are indeterminately sequenced with respect to one another and thus the order in which any side effects occur is unspecified." -- C11 standard Feb 13 20:02:49 so, using the order in which the struct fields were declared is just an implementation detail Feb 13 20:05:22 the gcc docs also don't mention that order Feb 13 20:13:40 Scott Meyer? I thought that this is already a history :) Feb 13 20:15:21 I have read it ~15 years ago :) Feb 13 20:20:08 But, actually, what is your recomendation for the best book on C++ v17? Or maybe a set of books? Feb 13 20:21:56 I've never read any, so I don't have any recommendation. I often use cppreference.com as a reference, and if need be I check the standard Feb 13 20:22:37 neither of these is particularly useful to *learn* C++17 though I guess Feb 13 22:02:45 (but hot tip: be sure to qualify move constructors as "noexcept" whenever applicable, especially for classes that may end up in an std::vector) Feb 13 23:02:49 Greetings all, I was wondering if there is a CAD model of the beagleboard-x15 out there that I can download. Even if it's a simplified one. Feb 14 01:34:17 Is there an easy way to change BBB drive letter D: to something else. Do I need this drive? Feb 14 01:54:24 dreamhiker: you don't need this drive but I'm not sure how easy it is to disable it (without disabling the usb device functionality entirely). drive letter is a thing windows picks. iirc there's a way to change it but don't ask me where Feb 14 02:04:10 USB! Feb 14 02:05:52 Hey zmatt: I am going to try that circuit you showed me on Fri. I should have good news or no news. Either way, I will let you know how my BBBlue acts up. Feb 14 02:06:17 Either motors will pursue power and control or not. Feb 14 02:06:57 I had to wait for some connectors to come in. The three pin jst-zh were not in my kit. Feb 14 02:10:51 I had four pin, two pin, and I think six pin but no three pin. Dang. Feb 14 02:12:23 The BBBlue is actually a nice board, except for the small connectors, that has enough oomph for a lot of learning and fun. Feb 14 02:12:38 ... Feb 14 02:13:07 I also found someone on the BB Google Groups that had an issue w/ the power staying w/ the GPS. Feb 14 02:13:22 I said, "I just got done dealing w/ someone who told me about that issue." Feb 14 02:13:29 Always On. Feb 14 02:24:28 Updates! Feb 14 02:46:35 Hey! Feb 14 02:53:08 Hey! Feb 14 02:53:22 How are we doing tonight? Feb 14 02:56:42 Andre: What are you doing w/ your BBB? **** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu Feb 14 02:59:57 2019