**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed May 22 03:02:00 2019 May 22 07:15:42 Hi guys, is this a general chat or a support channel for BBB owners? May 22 07:17:59 davsank: basically yes. May 22 07:18:06 (to both) May 22 07:19:55 Ok, I currently have a BBB. I can make it boot into the OS on the external SD-card by pressing the S2 button, plugging in the power and then waiting a few more minutes secinds for the activity lrds to start fleshing - then I release the S2 button and it loads fine. How can I make it boot into the SD-Card each time? May 22 07:20:32 I tried plugging it into my pc as a MSD to see contents of the eMMC, but it shows nothing May 22 07:21:16 davsank: if it is a reasonably recent BBB, it should start from the sd card by default, if possible May 22 07:22:53 It's a REV C bpard May 22 07:25:40 dav: but i kinda fail to fully grasp the question. you mean starting from the sd card works like expected if you push the button. its just that the bootloader does not select the sd card automatically, but prefers the integrated eemc, right? May 22 07:27:17 dav: strange. have you tried reflashing it? May 22 07:30:05 dav: literally right at the top of https://beagleboard.org/getting-started May 22 08:26:49 dav: thats how it shouldbe May 22 09:01:54 dav: strange indeed. May 22 09:07:05 dav: just wipe eMMC using sudo blkdiscard /dev/mmcblk1 May 22 09:07:30 also I can't read what you're saying since you're not authenticated to services May 22 09:08:20 (due to spam problems, anyone not using the web chat needs to have a registered nick to speak, see https://freenode.net/kb/answer/registration ) May 22 09:10:44 LetoThe2nd: flashing anything onto eMMC is not recommended if the intention is to boot from sd card May 22 09:11:11 zmatt: i suspected the u-boot on the emmc to be defective May 22 09:11:24 zmatt: but glad you're around now, you know certainly better than me May 22 09:11:30 or just a version incompatible with whatever linux system is on the sd card May 22 09:11:54 hence my recommendation to wipe eMMC, which ensures the bootloader on SD card is used, which "belongs" to the system on sd card to be booted May 22 09:13:52 tbr: I'm stocking up on tools for my home lab ;) May 22 09:14:14 tbr: I just bought a microscope, really helpful for board inspection and soldering and stuff May 22 09:15:11 thinkfat_: mono, stereo, trinocular? digital? May 22 09:15:21 stereo optical May 22 09:15:39 trinocular vision is very useful in non-euclidean space May 22 09:15:43 actually, I bought one of these amscope binoculars May 22 09:15:46 zmatt: :) May 22 09:16:00 *nod* I was lucky to work with one in the former Nokia lab (now Huawei) May 22 09:16:11 they had a nikon and a posh zeiss May 22 09:16:17 tbr: trinocular doesn't really make sense if it's not simul-focal, too May 22 09:16:30 zeiss was stereo *with* simulfocal May 22 09:16:47 amscope has those too, but a tad pricy. Forgot their name for that May 22 09:16:48 tbr: and then it becomes a bit expensive because you have a third optical path May 22 09:17:47 the zeiss had an optical "switch" where you could mechanically switch between 100%, 50/50 and 100% for right eye and camera path May 22 09:17:51 oh lol trinocular is actually a thing for microscopes, two eyes and a camera... fair enough May 22 09:18:11 tbr: before I tried make do with a digital microscope, but while that's quite OK for inspection and documentation, it doesn't really help with coordinating you hands ;) May 22 09:18:30 yes, similar experience here May 22 09:19:02 tbr: this is the one: https://www.amscope.com/3-5x-45x-binocular-stereo-boom-microscope-ring-light.html May 22 09:19:40 thinkfat_: yup, I looked at exactly that too last year May 22 09:19:50 the 3.5 - 45 zoom range is ideal for pcb work May 22 09:23:21 *nod* something like this would be neat: https://www.amscope.com/stereo-microscopes/boom-stands/3-5x-45x-simul-focal-stereo-zoom-microscope-on-dual-arm-boom-stand.html May 22 09:37:41 tbr: yes, quite nice. but if you don't plan to stream your microscope view on youtube, it's kind of unnecessary May 22 09:40:06 for my purposes, the binocular version is quite enough. not sure about the double-boom stand, but it's nice to have the flexibility and you can quickly move it away if it obstructs something May 22 09:40:28 yes, May 22 09:43:13 Ok, I'm registered now. May 22 09:43:23 Can you read my messages now zmatt? May 22 09:44:59 yep May 22 09:46:00 ok. So, I made a stupid thingy... and used the ONLY sdcard I had so now, whenever I boot from it, it attempts to reflash the emmc May 22 09:46:16 So I assumt I'd need reflash my SD first, and then clear out the emmc, right? May 22 09:46:46 if you have another linux system you could also fix the sd card without reflashing it, but otherwise yeah May 22 09:47:24 you say "attempts to reflash"... do you mean it's unsuccessful? May 22 09:47:41 since otherwise just let it finish and you'll have another linux system, namely the bbb booting from eMMC May 22 09:48:35 It finishes, then the bb powers off (as intended by the script) May 22 09:48:46 okay, so remove sd card and boot it May 22 09:48:59 I then remove the SD card, power the card back on but I only get a blue power led and that's it May 22 09:49:08 that's odd May 22 09:50:00 I have trouble imagining a failure mode where eMMC can be successfully flashed, yet the system subsequently fails to boot from it May 22 09:51:04 which image is this? the latest recommended stretch-iot image? May 22 09:52:38 Yes May 22 09:52:59 very strange indeed May 22 09:53:24 I'll try to reflash the SD with the base image May 22 09:53:29 and the reflash the emmc May 22 09:53:29 just to check: no external hardware connected to the expansion headers? May 22 09:53:47 not at the moment - there will be a touchscreen on it when I'm done May 22 09:54:11 since only a power led suggest that it's not even really trying to boot anything May 22 09:54:31 weird May 22 09:54:32 indeed May 22 09:54:54 has it ever booted from eMMC? if so, what happened to it? May 22 09:56:25 not to my knowledge May 22 09:56:43 it's second-hand/ebay? otherwise why wasn't it just RMA'd ? May 22 09:59:50 I'm only a simple integrator :) I got the boars as is, I was asked to make it so that it'd boot into Linux, and immidiately after that launch chrome in kiosk mode into a certain site while outputting to a small 5" touch screen attached via an expension board May 22 10:00:33 I mean, you'd probably want to do that with a properly working board, not a defective one :P May 22 10:00:36 problem is, if I want to boot via the SD-Card I need to have the S2 button pressed all the time which will be difficult when the product is to be integrated into a close cahssis May 22 10:01:01 I wouldn't boot from sd card, I'd boot from eMMC May 22 10:01:11 your core issue is that your board seems to be broken May 22 10:01:15 I see. May 22 10:01:22 if it never booted from eMMC, and still fails to boot from it after reflashing May 22 10:01:28 I'll ask the client if he has another one May 22 10:01:41 I thought I was doing something wrong May 22 10:02:06 unless there's something I'm missing... I have trouble imagining how this could happen regardless of whether I assume it's a hardware issue or something you're doing wrong May 22 10:02:49 if you reflash the sd card and boot from it again, maybe we could check the state of the eMMC May 22 10:04:06 also, you're going to run google chrome on your beaglebone? oof May 22 10:05:07 yeah I noticed it wasn't the fastest, but once again, I adivsed the client against it, I was over-ruled, he has the money and I have my orders XD May 22 10:05:17 :D May 22 10:05:26 the client has witnessed the performance? May 22 10:05:37 Not yet May 22 10:06:07 I told him it'll be abismall because running xServer on a 512 MB RAM system sounds painful to me May 22 10:06:26 but he went "it's only a small kiosk touch screen, how much RAM it could need" May 22 10:06:38 hahaaaaa May 22 10:06:46 I'm surprised it starts up at all... May 22 10:06:50 ^ May 22 10:06:51 When I reminded him there's on OS back there May 22 10:07:06 the OS doesn't use any real memory May 22 10:07:07 he though for a sec and repeated the same sentance May 22 10:07:10 the OS is quite likely not the obstacle here May 22 10:07:10 google-chrome does May 22 10:07:33 yes, but it runs via the OS May 22 10:07:48 maybe if he had a board that runs chrome OS, then MAYBE May 22 10:07:49 it wouldn't be different if it ran bare-metal May 22 10:07:49 I think 64 MB would probably be fine for the base OS May 22 10:08:02 the problem isn't the OS, the problem is chrome May 22 10:08:05 but regardless, I'll reflash the SD and talk to you again May 22 10:23:00 ok, SD reflashed, I'm booted up and logged in via SSH from my work station. I'm going to grab some food before everything closes up May 22 10:23:04 It's 13:19 here May 22 10:23:06 ttys May 22 10:50:30 and I'm back May 22 10:51:12 zmatt: I'm connected via SSH, how can I check the emmc? May 22 10:55:01 or anyone else who might know how May 22 11:02:43 This is what I get via fdisk: May 22 11:02:49 Disk /dev/mmcblk0: 14.9 GiB, 15931539456 bytes, 31116288 sectors May 22 11:02:49 Units: sectors of 1 * 512 = 512 bytes May 22 11:02:50 Sector size (logical/physical): 512 bytes / 512 bytes May 22 11:02:50 I/O size (minimum/optimal): 512 bytes / 512 bytes May 22 11:02:50 Disklabel type: dos May 22 11:02:50 Disk identifier: 0xef3fa7f6 May 22 11:02:50 Device Boot Start End Sectors Size Id Type May 22 11:02:51 Disk /dev/mmcblk1: 3.6 GiB, 3825205248 bytes, 7471104 sectors May 22 11:02:52 Units: sectors of 1 * 512 = 512 bytes May 22 11:02:52 Sector size (logical/physical): 512 bytes / 512 bytes May 22 11:02:53 I/O size (minimum/optimal): 512 bytes / 512 bytes May 22 11:02:53 Disklabel type: dos May 22 11:02:54 Disk identifier: 0x9d3bebd8 May 22 11:02:54 Device Boot Start End Sectors Size Id Type May 22 11:02:55 Disk /dev/mmcblk1boot1: 2 MiB, 2097152 bytes, 4096 sectors May 22 11:02:58 Units: sectors of 1 * 512 = 512 bytes May 22 11:03:15 mmm I better pastebin that May 22 11:03:49 https://pastebin.com/EWwheGyq May 22 11:08:28 davsank: you can run e2fsck /dev/mmcblk1p1 I guess May 22 11:08:58 I guess the 3.6GiB volume is the eMMC and the 15GiB is the SD card May 22 11:23:30 davsank: please never paste multiline stuff in chat, use a paste service such as pastebin.com May 22 11:23:46 ah you realized that May 22 11:25:25 davsank: can you pastebin the output of: dd if=/dev/mmcblk1 skip=256 count=2 status=none | hexdump -C May 22 11:25:35 actually count=1 should suffice May 22 11:26:47 https://pastebin.com/bLMVMDDP May 22 11:27:02 I don't know how to read that XD May 22 11:27:17 it means the bootloader is present on eMMC May 22 11:28:03 so why wouldn't it boot via the eMMC? May 22 11:28:07 does it boot from sd card if it is inserted, without holding down the S2 button? May 22 11:28:18 no May 22 11:28:49 okay so it's not that the bootloader fails to boot linux from eMMC, the bootloader just isn't working at all May 22 11:28:56 as a side note though, if I'm already in the system and post a reboot command (withour power cycling) it works fine May 22 11:29:09 o.O May 22 11:29:29 what about if you press the reset button after power-on May 22 11:29:40 let me check, hold on May 22 11:29:47 short press ot long press? May 22 11:29:58 doesn't matter May 22 11:30:03 ok 1 moment May 22 11:30:27 this is so weird May 22 11:31:04 but I also need to go afk. I'll check in again later May 22 11:31:23 it loads fine after a momentary press May 22 11:31:29 (With the SD inserted that is) May 22 11:31:40 without it? May 22 11:32:06 let's see May 22 11:32:49 no, nothing May 22 11:33:59 okay, try it again with sd card (without S2 button) + reset press May 22 11:34:08 see if /dev/mmcblk1 still shows up May 22 11:35:27 ok sec May 22 11:36:13 using fdisk -l? May 22 11:36:45 or just ls /dev/mmcblk1 May 22 11:37:04 ok, waiting for it to boot to gain SSH access May 22 11:37:47 debian@beaglebone:~$ sudo ls /dev/mmcblk May 22 11:37:47 mmcblk0 mmcblk0p1 mmcblk1 mmcblk1boot0 mmcblk1boot1 mmcblk1p1 mmcblk1rpmb May 22 11:37:56 both 0 and 1 May 22 11:38:01 oh yeah, tip: boot will be a lot faster if you either disable cape-universal (in /boot/uEnv.txt) or update the bb-customizations package to the latest version May 22 11:38:04 hmm ok May 22 11:38:35 the fact that it would boot from sd card after pressing the reset button made me wonder if the eMMC went unresponsive May 22 11:39:11 okay, I have no idea what's going on other than that something seems to be wonky with the eMMC May 22 11:39:16 I'll disable the cape-universal as it will be helpful later in the "master image" May 22 11:39:58 the real mystery to me is why it consistently fails to bootload from it, yet linux had it working well eonugh to be able to reflash it May 22 11:40:03 but anyway, I'm afk May 22 12:13:06 davsank: just to add: although the exact problem is unclear to me, but it does seem to me like your board has a hardware issue, especially if it never booted from eMMC to begin with. beaglebones ship with a bootable system on eMMC (which of course you should immediately replace since you hvae no idea how old the system on eMMC is :P ) May 22 12:49:26 Thanks zmatt. For the moment I'm having a fight with debian, seeing as debian decided that it won't launch chrome as root without displaying an error message, and it also decided that sudo -i -u debian isn't a viable post-boot script May 22 12:49:43 so I can't start as root and I can't automatically start as non-rrot May 22 12:50:15 davsank: why on earth would you run chrome as root?! May 22 12:50:21 Once I've finished the battle and backup the image, get a replacement board and try to flash it with the working image automatically May 22 12:50:56 btw, for now my suggestion to erase eMMC should at least allow the board to boot without having to hold the S2 button May 22 12:50:56 zmatt: I wouldn't! but it won't let me switch user during a sartup script either May 22 12:51:07 uhh May 22 12:51:17 that's the blkdiscard command? May 22 12:51:21 yes May 22 12:51:41 how do I know which one should I discard? May 22 12:51:47 Wait, stupid question May 22 12:51:54 I know the size of the SD May 22 12:52:27 and when setting up startup services you can configure the environment in great detail, including user/group. but more importantly, x11 applications normally won't work as startup service, you should get them started from within the x11 session May 22 12:52:31 eMMC is /dev/mmcblk1 May 22 12:52:36 SD is /dev/mmcblk0 May 22 12:53:09 ok so sudo blkdiscard /dev/mmcblk1 May 22 12:53:14 yes May 22 12:53:52 ok. I'll powercycle to make sure it works May 22 12:54:08 (if that still doesn't allow you to boot from sd card, your board is haunted and requires an exorcism) May 22 12:54:30 with a paint stripper May 22 12:56:39 in that case I'll go get an exorcist May 22 12:57:21 as it still won't boot May 22 13:02:26 :D May 22 13:03:07 so the good news is that the eMMC is probably fine ;) May 22 13:05:58 I wonder if there's something wrong with the sysboot pins or their pull-up/down resistors or something, but that doesn't explain why it manages to boot after pressing reset May 22 13:15:37 power ramping, emmc reset problem... May 22 13:15:40 something like that? May 22 13:15:49 is anything connected to the board but a monitor? May 22 13:15:53 any cape or something? May 22 13:17:08 thinkfat_: but then why does it boot immediately from sd card when S2 button is held? May 22 13:17:48 why doesn't it boot now that eMMC is cleared? bootrom should simply fail to load SPL from eMMC and proceed to SD card May 22 13:18:39 I don't see power ramping as plausible anyway, it needs to have ramped up before the pmic will ever consider switching on the board May 22 13:19:43 too slow ramp-up (more than ~50ms) will cause the board to fail to power up entirely May 22 13:28:32 pure linux info: I've written a 846MB beagle image into a 4GB microsd, after mods i've saved it into a file with dd, obviously I have a 4GB file (containing a 846MB partition and rest of unallocated space), how can I reduce the image to fit into a 1GB SD ? May 22 13:31:14 fred__tv: use a tool that works on the content of the partition (cp, rsync) instead of the raw binary partition data like dd does. May 22 13:32:16 uhh May 22 13:32:29 no, just truncate the irrelevant data off the image May 22 13:32:49 did you expand the filesystem of the image after flashing it to sd card? May 22 13:32:57 no May 22 13:33:39 okay, just determine where the last partition ends (e.g. using fdisk -l) and truncate t May 22 13:33:42 he image May 22 13:34:28 it ends at 1740799 May 22 13:35:18 truncate --io-blocks --size=1740800 filename.img May 22 13:35:31 actually I'm not sure whether --io-blocks is 512 bytes May 22 13:35:34 maybe safer to just use bytes May 22 13:35:44 truncate --size=$(( 512 * 1740800 )) filename.img May 22 13:36:22 okay --io-blocks is *not* sectors, so disregard that suggestion May 22 13:36:25 ok so I can work directly on image file (no need to mount etc etc....) May 22 13:37:00 it *must not* be mounted or otherwise setup as loopback device May 22 13:37:56 n it's a simple file, so is truncate --size=$(( 512 * 1740800 )) filename.img syntax ok ? May 22 13:39:07 ehm, I don't understand why you're asking this. do X so, should I do X? May 22 13:40:00 you said "disregard that suggestion" do you mean the first truncate ? May 22 13:41:12 truncate --io-blocks --size=1740800 filename.img May 22 13:41:18 truncate --size=$(( 512 * 1740800 )) filename.img May 22 13:41:30 is the first one to be disregarded ? May 22 13:41:50 my misunderstanding.... May 22 13:42:04 I don't see how there's much room for misunderstanding the 5 lines I said May 22 13:42:49 enough room for me... ;-)) May 22 13:42:52 I first gave a suggestion that included --io-blocks, then immediately questioned myself and offered a replacement suggestion, and finally confirmed that my original suggestion to use --io-blocks was wrong May 22 13:43:46 ok May 22 13:44:19 (--io-blocks is 4KB units rather than 512-byte units on my system, and I'm guessing that might not even be consistent across devices. in retrospect I don't know why I thought even for a moment that "io blocks" would mean 512-byte sectors) May 22 14:15:33 zmatt, i have never checked: when you power up a beagle do all gpios are at 0 level ? or may them go to 1 before overlays etc. are loaded ? May 22 14:17:41 until configured otherwise, all gpios are input with a weak pull-up or pull-down resistor (100KΩ ±50%). whether the pin is pulled up or down by default varies per pin May 22 14:18:51 the only pins that get reconfigured by u-boot are P9.19/P9.20 for i2c May 22 14:20:58 most of those pull-up/downs can be reconfigured later, except for P8.03-06, P8.20-25, and P8.31-46 May 22 14:23:11 then no way to have any going to 3v3 during boot ... May 22 14:23:37 I don't know what you mean by that May 22 14:24:37 using device tree you can configure the pins any way you want during fairly early boot May 22 14:25:28 in case one have the "door opener relay" (or autodestruction) connected to one gpio... May 22 14:26:29 if you want pins to have a specific level immediately at power-on, and the pin does not have a weak internal pull-up by default, or that pull-up is too weak, use an external pull-up May 22 14:27:16 and that relay is going to magically switch without drawing any current? May 22 14:27:27 is it being controlled by a FET or something? May 22 14:28:51 no, usually driven by a transistor... May 22 14:29:43 with logic "1" May 22 14:30:19 a transistor base isn't a logic input, it requires current May 22 14:31:48 yes May 22 14:32:51 the weak pull-up/down resistors are really weak, so no significant current should flow by default. if that is still too much current, use an external pull-up/down in range 1K-20K to override the weak internal pull-up/down and ensure the safe default level (high for NPN, low for PNP) May 22 14:32:57 ehh, other way around May 22 14:33:02 high for PNP, low for NPN May 22 14:33:31 ok May 22 14:34:44 be sure not to pull any of the following pins opposite to their default: P8.31-33, 35, 39-41, 43-46 May 22 14:35:49 ??? May 22 14:36:50 their level at power-on is used as boot configuration. there are on-board 100KΩ resistors to ensure they have the correct level at power-on, and pulling them in the other direction at power-on is likely to cause boot failure May 22 14:37:22 good to know May 22 14:38:24 are they pull up or dwn ? May 22 14:38:30 yes May 22 14:38:34 :P May 22 14:39:02 (varies per pin, and is different on the white than it is on the black) May 22 14:41:13 I don't think a 100k pullup is enough to trigger a common bjt to saturation (or am I wrong?) May 22 14:41:58 you should be able to find the current gain in the datasheet of your transistor May 22 14:42:44 back to school years.... May 22 14:44:41 but if you want to be sure the transistor is off and not have to worry about it, just pick a gpio that has the appropriate default level or use an external pull to force it to have the appropriate defautl May 22 14:49:27 well May 22 15:13:43 ? May 22 15:15:08 good May 22 15:15:16 ok May 22 15:16:38 ah May 22 16:59:09 * jkridner is struggling with Bluetooth networking May 22 17:01:14 Well, I'm trying PAN. May 22 17:01:39 I can get it to work between a BeagleBone AI and my Ubuntu laptop.... May 22 17:01:48 but, not between two BeagleBone AIs. May 22 17:02:14 well, using BeagleBone AI as the NAP. May 22 17:02:23 and other as PANU. May 22 17:02:34 * jkridner needs to get to basics with Bluetooth. :-( May 22 17:02:46 ds2: missed you at MFBA this weekend. May 22 17:03:13 we did a small sponsorship again after taking last year off. May 22 17:03:29 dang. I did go to bring-a-hack, but missed many people because I showed up late. May 22 17:04:03 I missed David S. who was there too. May 22 17:04:16 that was probably around 7! May 22 17:05:34 ds2: here's what I'm running on the NAP: https://github.com/jadonk/boot-scripts/blob/bbai/boot/bbai_bluetooth_nap.sh May 22 17:05:59 here's my gist for what I have on the PANU side: https://gist.github.com/jadonk/87b1b00a4c83d22028f449883e61f1cb May 22 17:15:05 grrr... router. May 22 17:15:19 ds2: any ideas what steps to follow? bt-network just refuses to work. May 22 17:17:10 pair: yes. May 22 17:17:23 I can log the connect attempts, which just fail. May 22 17:17:31 I can try without the NAT. May 22 17:17:53 right now, I've had a further regression bringing up another board that doesn't like my hciattach line. May 22 17:21:43 jkridner: have a brief pinout for the basics for the beaglebone-ai ? e.g. serial console, power input, etc. May 22 17:22:44 vagrantc: schematic is posted on the private list. May 22 17:23:01 ah. May 22 17:23:14 https://github.com/beagleboard/beaglebone-ai has some info, but I haven't posted the schematic yet.... May 22 17:23:33 I could probably have my arm twisted, but I'd prefer not to post too early. May 22 17:24:16 powered by usb-c ? May 22 17:24:40 ds2: as soon as I can get my wifi router back up, I'll get logged into the other board and capture the bluetoothctl commands.... that's all I meant by "connect"... whereas bt-network -c fails as well. May 22 17:24:47 vagrantc: yup. May 22 17:25:55 * jkridner tries to switch networks again. May 22 17:38:06 https://gist.github.com/jadonk/87b1b00a4c83d22028f449883e61f1cb is now updated with an attempt on the Host and Client. May 22 17:38:17 just don't know what to do with bt-network as the client. May 22 17:38:25 not sure I did it right on the host either w/o the NAT. May 22 17:44:34 oh? May 22 17:44:57 I just thought they needed to be unique. May 22 17:48:14 ds2: maybe it is in the module and I don't know how to fetch it. BCM43455. May 22 17:53:27 where do I even find it? May 22 18:02:45 fyi, module is AW-CM256SM May 22 18:18:04 debian@beaglebone:/var/lib/cloud9$ sudo bt-network -c 00:AA:AA:AA:AA:AA panu May 22 18:18:04 Network service is not supported by this device May 22 18:18:16 ds2: ^^^^ just don't know what that means. May 22 18:18:38 debian@beaglebone:/var/lib/cloud9$ sudo bt-network -s panu bnep0 May 22 18:18:38 PANU server registered May 22 18:18:41 ^^^ host May 22 18:33:15 jkridner: can I propose removing the +z channel mode? it results in unregistered users being unaware of the fact that their chatlines are invisible (to anyone but ops), whereas without +z the network will notify them May 22 18:33:45 i.e. it is very likely to people being unable to get help here and having no idea why May 22 18:34:03 ehh, sentence fail May 22 18:41:10 sure, I can remove it. May 22 18:41:27 just need to remember some syntax. May 22 18:41:56 if noise gets bad, we'll flip it back on and add more ops. May 22 18:44:32 zmatt: would it work to just give you op? May 22 18:44:41 * jkridner just realized you didn't have it. May 22 18:50:22 * jkridner will '/mode #beagle +z' if spam becomes an issue. May 22 18:50:58 * jkridner thought that riot and webchat had automatic voice. May 22 18:54:56 I'm a random from webchat May 22 18:55:12 * jkridner cannot remember the filter for authenticated with nickserv May 22 18:56:35 jkridner: +z doesn't affect spam May 22 18:57:03 how not? isn't that the one that prevents unauthenticated users from being voiced? May 22 18:57:07 no May 22 18:58:42 +z causes messages from those being blocked to go to ops... I think the idea was that it would allowed those blocked to inquire what's happening, but in reality it makes them unaware that they're being blocked May 22 18:59:34 why is the 'secret' mode set? May 22 18:59:38 https://freenode.net/kb/answer/channelmodes May 22 18:59:49 is that document wrong? May 22 19:00:44 probably to be harder to find by spambots May 22 19:00:52 I guess. May 22 19:01:02 spambots seem to find it easily anyway. May 22 19:01:03 no human uses the channel lists anyway May 22 19:01:20 so, +z was supposed to help newbs at least reach an op. May 22 19:01:32 it makes them unaware that they have any reason to reach an op May 22 19:01:47 they can always reach an op anyway, by sending a private message May 22 19:02:06 I don't remember the magic flag that required non-authenticated people to register. May 22 19:02:09 a better solution would be a bot that notify any unregistered users that walk in May 22 19:02:29 it's one of the +q entries May 22 19:02:40 +q $~a May 22 19:03:14 a lot of this assumes that people aren't new to irc and have any idea what's going on, though. May 22 19:03:28 whose probably use the web chat May 22 19:03:34 which is exempt May 22 19:03:41 ah May 22 19:03:43 how is webchat exempt right now? May 22 19:04:12 I voiced riot users, but webchat "isn't registered" according to chanserv. May 22 19:04:26 * jkridner has no easy way to keep this straight.... May 22 19:04:27 there's a +e *!*@gateway/* May 22 19:04:57 neither "/mode #beagle" nor "/msg chanserv flags #beagle" seem to be complete regarding settings. May 22 19:05:45 lists (bans, quiets, exempts, etc) need to be requested explicitly May 22 19:05:53 use: /mode +e May 22 19:05:57 to list exempts May 22 19:06:03 or /mode +q to list quiets May 22 19:07:32 (channel name after /mode may be required depending on irc client) May 22 19:08:27 it listed them... going through help I also found "/msg chanserv set" May 22 19:09:07 * jkridner is still confused why +z is a bad thing. May 22 19:09:21 is it because they get responses from ops who don't notice? May 22 19:09:28 without +z, any user that's blocked will get a notification when they try to chat May 22 19:09:34 b/c, otherwise, don't they just get silence? May 22 19:09:36 to let them know they can't chat May 22 19:09:42 they get a notice? May 22 19:09:44 yes May 22 19:10:06 with +z, they don't. they don't realize, ops (if any happen to be around) don't realize either May 22 19:10:18 I'd never seen that notice as a "quieted" user. May 22 19:10:40 testing May 22 19:11:19 I got no notice. May 22 19:11:21 changing your nick doesn't unident you May 22 19:11:26 no? May 22 19:11:29 no May 22 19:11:33 did you see my text? May 22 19:11:41 21:10 <@randomuser> testing May 22 19:11:46 oh... it was just delayed on riot. May 22 19:12:13 21:12 < zmatt-> test May 22 19:12:14 21:12 -!- #beagle Cannot send to nick/channel May 22 19:13:02 k, got "Cannot send to nick/channel" May 22 19:13:02 unfortunately they won't know why, but at least they know there's something going on, instead of asking their question and getting nothing but silence May 22 19:13:29 now some kind of bot is needed? don't know how to do that. May 22 19:15:04 at the very least https://beagleboard.org/chat should explain that nick registration may be required if you don't use the webchat May 22 19:16:16 but even without a bot, the situation is better without +z than with it May 22 19:17:10 I could probably look into setting up a simple bot for this if you want May 22 19:19:03 note added May 22 19:19:18 it would be great if you would. I'd be happy to run it on beagleboard.org May 22 19:19:32 I haven't been able to get my logbot up and running in a while. May 22 19:20:12 https://beagleboard.org/static/irclog/ is at least 6 months old. May 22 19:20:40 I'd probably just run irssi in a screen session :P May 22 21:21:18 wow wtf happened in here LOL May 22 23:58:23 veremitz: ? May 23 00:09:22 either there was a spam wave I missed or jkr had a cleaning/tidying spree :D May 23 00:09:59 the latter. I guess I missed it because I have mode-changes on ignore :P May 23 00:10:30 ah I have different settings for different chans, didn't think this one would be a problem .. May 23 00:11:14 hmm, the +q and +e lists are stlil the same as before, what exactly do you meam by "tidying" ? May 23 00:11:32 changes to ops and voices May 23 00:11:37 not looked at bans May 23 00:11:41 or anything else May 23 00:12:15 oh yeah I'm not sure why I'm an op now, but *shrug* May 23 00:12:18 ah that's cool .. I can get quiets up in hexchat .. didn't know that May 23 00:12:41 doesn't hurt to have an adequate amount of ops in case some sort of crap happens May 23 00:12:57 *ACtive* ops are the important ones .. in my experience May 23 00:13:06 20 awol ops are useless May 23 00:13:13 true May 23 00:13:14 same as no ops May 23 00:13:56 yeah I had to drop +i on a chan I mod .. some jerk was avoiding bans/etc **** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu May 23 03:00:36 2019