**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat Aug 24 02:59:57 2019 Aug 24 09:41:40 Hi, Aug 24 09:42:31 I want to compile linux kernel (version 5) for beaglebone black. which defconfig file should i use in make? Aug 24 09:43:09 the compilation fails with both bb.org_defconfig and beaglebone_defconfig files Aug 24 09:45:24 ijaz: any reason to custom-compile it instead of just installing the debian package? Aug 24 09:46:04 actually i am learning embedded linux. Aug 24 09:46:32 thats why custom compiling various components. like uboot, kernel etc. Aug 24 09:46:51 test Aug 24 09:47:22 why I do not see others messages from weechat while see them from hexchat for example Aug 24 09:47:30 ijaz: I mean, "embedded linux" is a broad topic... custom compiling those components is often not needed, although it certainly doesn't hurt to be able to do it Aug 24 09:47:54 nexgen: ? Aug 24 09:48:59 zmatt: you are right... Just going it to get more comfortable with kernel compilation. Aug 24 09:49:14 any clue which defconfig file is used? Aug 24 09:49:17 ijaz: if you want to replicate the kernels typically used on beaglebones, the easiest is to use rcn's build repositories... see these notes: https://pastebin.com/eLhrp1Hg Aug 24 09:49:38 excuse me it seems to be rather a scrolling issue in a console irc client Aug 24 09:50:55 what is the difference between mainline kernel and bbb specific kernels? Aug 24 09:51:48 https://github.com/beagleboard/linux Aug 24 09:52:04 what is added into the BBB specific? Aug 24 09:52:12 can pure mainline work on BBB? Aug 24 09:53:33 nexgen: I'd presume so, never tried it. try it to find out I guess Aug 24 09:55:34 -bone is reasonably close to mainline, but it still has various patches and custom drivers that either haven't reached mainline yet or aren't likely to ever reach mainline for whatever reason Aug 24 09:56:21 rcn's -ti kernels basically have the same patches but applied to TI's kernel trees Aug 24 09:57:21 I have no idea how significant the differences are anymore nowadays for am335x, except I think remoteproc-pru still hasn't stabilized? not sure, I don't care since I use uio-pruss Aug 24 09:57:31 maybe some power management stuff Aug 24 10:00:39 if I need a very minimum of hardware just for a network server Aug 24 10:00:41 it also has some patches relevant for being able to make decent use of spi devices and gpio :P Aug 24 10:00:51 can I use newer mainline like v5.2.x? Aug 24 10:01:49 no hardware ports needed (GPIOs, SPI, etc.) Aug 24 10:03:58 honestly I think the beaglebone would probably suck for such a purpose... it means the strong point of the beaglebone at left unused, and what you're left with is an ARM linux board with a weak cpu, slow storage, and not a very fast network interface either... "just for a network server" you can no doubt find cheaper boards with better specs Aug 24 10:04:48 also, you're repeating a question you already asked and which I already answered, which quickly gets tiresome Aug 24 10:04:56 11:52 < nexgen2> can pure mainline work on BBB? Aug 24 10:05:00 11:53 <@zmatt> nexgen: I'd presume so, never tried it. try it to find out I guess Aug 24 10:07:08 sorry for double asking, asking on different channel, you have a good memory Aug 24 10:07:38 as for performance it does not matter Aug 24 10:07:44 only a security matters Aug 24 10:07:54 ehm no, you asked here, in this channel, 15 minutes ago, and your question was still on my screen Aug 24 10:08:01 for performance I would use just X86 Aug 24 10:08:21 your security goals so far have been extremely nebulous at best Aug 24 10:08:33 I agree that asked here already, but I also asked on different linux-arm channels Aug 24 10:08:54 I do not remember by myself whether asked already on a specific channel Aug 24 10:09:00 and another reason Aug 24 10:09:19 a question can be answered by someone new member if asked again Aug 24 10:09:56 instead of wasting more people's time, you could also just apt-get install a mainline kernel and try it Aug 24 10:10:24 I have to few knowledge in a security area, that is why it is so nebulous Aug 24 10:10:40 already done, but it did not boot Aug 24 10:10:56 also discovered Devuan bootloader did not work at all Aug 24 10:11:13 I never said anything about replacing a bootloader or using an obscure distro Aug 24 10:11:14 now experimenting with a newer boot loader from BBB home page Aug 24 10:11:22 from Debian images Aug 24 10:11:31 if you want to know if a mainline kernel works, the easy way would be to install a mainline kernel onto an otherwise known-working system Aug 24 10:11:39 I need finally OpenBSD Aug 24 10:11:55 but right now a Devuan Linux would be enough for first tests Aug 24 10:12:05 * zmatt rolls eyes Aug 24 10:12:23 well, good luck with your endeavours Aug 24 10:12:29 It is easy to run Devuan with a Debian kernel Aug 24 10:12:46 I just need to learn how to start any kernel with Debian boot loader Aug 24 10:13:25 my current "research" is concentrated on https://nixos.wiki/wiki/NixOS_on_ARM/BeagleBone_Black Aug 24 10:14:07 I need to learn how to inject MLO and like it without needing to copy Debian boot sectors Aug 24 10:14:25 sudo dd if=uboot-am335x_boneblack_defconfig-2017.03_MLO of=/dev/sdX count=1 seek=1 bs=128k Aug 24 10:14:26 sudo dd if=uboot-am335x_boneblack_defconfig-2017.03_u-boot.img of=/dev/sdX count=2 seek=1 bs=384k Aug 24 10:14:35 please don't spam the channel Aug 24 10:15:23 we know how to click on a link, you really don't need to copy/paste stuff from that page here Aug 24 10:15:27 why they offer to use the same seek=1 ? Aug 24 10:15:43 it was for my further current questions Aug 24 10:15:45 they're abusing the blocksize Aug 24 10:16:03 your question would have worked fine in reference to that link Aug 24 10:16:25 would not second command overwrite the results of first one? Aug 24 10:16:37 I would just use seek=256 for the first one and seek=768 for the second one, and omit the count and bs arguments Aug 24 10:16:42 no Aug 24 10:17:35 ahh, seek is counted in different block sizes Aug 24 10:18:56 where can I read more details about how to inject MLO? Aug 24 10:19:06 why specific offsets are used Aug 24 10:19:17 and why MLO is present also in a file system Aug 24 10:19:27 the TI Technical REference Manual details the SoC part Aug 24 10:19:28 are these different stages of MLO? Aug 24 10:19:46 MLO isn't present in the filesystem Aug 24 10:19:52 or at least, has no reason to be Aug 24 10:24:04 strange Aug 24 10:24:46 original installation of angstrom 2013 had it if I am not wrong Aug 24 10:25:12 and moving MLO to another directory would make eMMC unbootable Aug 24 10:25:24 and would force BBB to boot from SD Aug 24 10:25:57 which is probably a reason they switched to using fixed-offset MLO instead of a FAT boot partition (bootrom supports both, it checks fixed locations first) Aug 24 10:26:15 just going to copy all SD cards and eMMCs to zvols to be able explore images quicker Aug 24 10:26:19 and the TRM explains this Aug 24 10:26:48 also, why do I feel like I already explained this.... Aug 24 10:27:10 ah, because I did, 5 days ago, in quite some detail Aug 24 10:27:19 not sure about fixed vs FAT, did I ask this ever> Aug 24 10:27:23 ? Aug 24 10:27:43 nexgen: that you apparently have the memory of a goldfish is unfortunate for you, but please don't make it our problem Aug 24 10:28:36 it is dependable of my health in a specific day Aug 24 10:28:45 I remember some things very well Aug 24 10:28:57 especially when understand them Aug 24 10:29:19 as for BBB there are to many unknown issues yet to form a complete picture Aug 24 10:29:28 for me of course Aug 24 10:30:05 also often connection was broken earlier Aug 24 10:30:12 and I lost many logs Aug 24 10:30:22 just downloading them from your site now Aug 24 10:30:27 all since 2012 year Aug 24 10:30:54 also made a weechat logger to avoid connections being broken anymore Aug 24 10:44:36 another strange thing happened to me Aug 24 10:45:27 after resizing Debian partition after deleting almost anything except /boot from it, it did not boot even kernel anymore Aug 24 10:46:44 are there microSD cards emulators which could work via iSCSI to passthrough say zvols with snapshots to BBB ? Aug 24 10:47:28 chrooting from X86 host into SD cards works of course but it is inconvenient to switch SD often Aug 24 10:55:49 cannot MLO in FAT being located at some fixed location too? So that after gparted reduced partition size MLO moved to some another unexpected address? Aug 24 10:56:36 I remember from DOS times there were some non relocatable files which should not be moved by defragmentation tool Aug 24 10:59:45 can you net boot and nfs mount ? Aug 24 11:00:09 have to try it yet, on X86 I did it Aug 24 11:00:19 on BBB not yet Aug 24 11:01:06 standard thin client stuff, shouldn't be too hard as long as network fs is fast enough for you Aug 24 11:02:15 ordered a serial cable only yesterday, hopefully in a couple of weeks I will be able to see an error message of boot loader at least Aug 24 11:02:44 is there any difference from point of view of compatibility with BBB Aug 24 11:03:01 which adapter to use Aug 24 11:03:08 pl xxx or ch xxx ? Aug 24 11:05:41 aliexpress.com/item/32673631189.html Aug 24 11:05:54 vs aliexpress.com/item/32831329095.html Aug 24 11:10:57 dont see why there would be. The compatibility that matters is mostly with the USB side rather than the BBB side. And I think both are fairly werll supported Aug 24 11:13:06 you do get some peculiar problems with ones intended to be RS232 (eg RS232 made by inverting the signals without actually doing the level change) but I haven't had problems with ones intended to work at TTL levels Aug 24 11:13:17 which is most of the now Aug 24 15:23:01 please let me know, can PRU be coded in C/C++ and used when main core is running Linux? Aug 24 15:24:22 or 8K RAM is too small to run anything except ASM? Aug 24 15:40:28 there is a compiler for PRU, if you haven't found it yet Aug 24 15:52:47 tbr, do you refer https://www.element14.com/community/community/designcenter/single-board-computers/next-gen_beaglebone/blog/2014/04/30/bbb--pru-c-compiler Aug 24 15:52:48 ? Aug 24 15:53:06 is there something like it but for Linux? (not WINE) Aug 24 15:53:11 like GCC Aug 24 15:56:57 GCC added PRU support at some point, yes Aug 24 16:06:59 Pasm is compiler for the PRU Aug 24 16:07:45 To run the asm file using the prussdrv technique Aug 24 16:19:14 very recent: Aug 24 16:19:15 https://www.phoronix.com/forums/forum/software/programming-compilers/1106649-gcc-10-lands-support-for-targeting-ti-s-32-bit-pru-processor Aug 24 16:19:33 though there is some critics about quality of TI software Aug 24 16:24:43 https://github.com/dinuxbg/gnupru Aug 24 16:25:13 is it what is included into GCC 10? Aug 24 17:51:48 Hello! Aug 24 17:52:00 Is anyone using arducopter and Mission planner w/ their BBBlue? Aug 24 17:53:03 I am asking b/c the BBBlue has arducopter on it and it controls my motors. This is okay but I was trying to make sure my BBBlue could communicate w/ the Mission Planner software. Aug 24 17:55:13 https://pastebin.com/t9wJ0ALE is my print statements from their source. I was wondering if this meant anything to anyone. Aug 24 17:55:14 ... Aug 24 18:21:46 set_: I get the same line once every start. Did not worry me so far Aug 24 18:24:19 nexgen2: TI's compiler for pru is available for arm-linux, no need for WINE Aug 24 18:24:40 as is pasm Aug 24 18:32:36 Okay. Aug 24 18:33:07 Humpelstilzchen: I guess I will try to install loiter mode somehow and see if this works for me. Aug 24 18:51:14 zmatt, where can I find it (not for Windows)? Aug 24 18:51:34 and is there a compiler for cross compilation on X86 host? Aug 24 18:51:57 http://www.ti.com/tool/PRU-CGT Aug 24 18:52:21 though tbh pru is better programmed in asm Aug 24 18:52:49 the cpu was designed for assembly programming, it's a poor target for C code compilation, and it shows in the code output quality Aug 24 18:53:58 plus it's a waste of instruction memory (only 8KB, i.e. 2048 instructions, per pru core) Aug 24 18:56:15 for a professional use ASM is most likely the best choice Aug 24 18:56:28 but I am going to try it like a hobby only Aug 24 18:57:02 hobby vs professional is irrelevant Aug 24 18:57:10 Even in C++ I programmed more than 20 years ago Aug 24 18:57:23 and 25 years ago in ASM for X86 Aug 24 18:57:39 now preferring basic ;b Aug 24 18:57:59 don't think of x86 assembly though.... x86 is a horrible architecture and its asm is vomit Aug 24 18:58:10 pru has a very simple and clean instruction set Aug 24 18:58:34 and its assembler has high-level convenience features such as structs Aug 24 18:58:44 good, but unfortunately I do not have a time budget for ASM Aug 24 18:58:52 even for C just to try Aug 24 18:58:56 it all depends on what you're using pru for Aug 24 18:59:14 just to have an idea about its real usage Aug 24 18:59:40 I mean real as not just reading about it, but something practical Aug 24 18:59:51 yet not useful for anyone Aug 24 19:00:16 earlier I preferred X86 host and Arduino in a slave mode Aug 24 19:00:22 it's often used in applications which rely on its ability to run with absolutely deterministic timing, allowing for example custom protocols to be implemented Aug 24 19:00:29 need to change this only for security reasons Aug 24 19:00:48 this requires asm, using C demolishes any timing guarantees Aug 24 19:00:57 is Linux RT not enough? Aug 24 19:01:17 if it is for your application then there's no reason to bother with pru, in asm or C Aug 24 19:04:49 but for example a while ago I did a test to determine the time it takes for a linux thread to respond to an external gpio and toggle another gpio, and my my code (using uio for delivering the interrupt to userspace and /dev/mem to toggling the gpio output to avoid overhead) showed around 40-80 microseconds of latency on an idle system... RT did not significantly change it iirc, it just removed outliers Aug 24 19:06:01 on the other hand, the same done with pru yielded around 25 nanoseconds iirc, which is mostly resynchronization time and gate delay Aug 24 19:06:30 cool Aug 24 19:06:39 10 power 3 times Aug 24 19:07:39 though I even cannot imagine where I would need it for a hobby usage Aug 24 19:08:10 another nice example of PRU usage is beaglelogic, which uses PRU to turn the beaglebone into a multichannel logic analyzer capable to sampling at 100 Msps... i.e. every other PRU clock cycle. that's something you'd never be able to achieve with C code Aug 24 19:08:18 even for most embedded microseconds are enough most likely Aug 24 19:08:45 may be an osciloscope can be done in BBB Aug 24 19:09:03 and different similar appliances Aug 24 19:09:20 for DSP emulation Aug 24 19:09:21 well PRU is also commonly used to generate signals for custom protocols, like the weirdass protocols for led strips and led matrices, or servo controls signals for remote control vehicles Aug 24 19:09:41 which often requires accurate timing Aug 24 19:09:42 convert analogue signal to digital Aug 24 19:10:47 or to interface with external chips Aug 24 19:11:06 it seems to be much more cooler board than I expected Aug 24 19:11:32 I viewed it for myself only as a security replacement for light X86 hosts Aug 24 19:11:41 at the beginning Aug 24 19:12:04 unfortunately I cannot use it in any projects Aug 24 19:12:21 there's good reason it is alive and kicking despite not being interesting if you look at it purely from the "basic" specs (cpu, ram, storage, pricing) Aug 24 19:12:31 since any project suitable for my skillset is remote Aug 24 19:13:44 actually I went to BBB only because it was marked as being supported by both Linux mainline kernel Aug 24 19:13:48 and OpenBSD Aug 24 19:14:10 in these terms it is like X86 - very compatibly with OSes I need Aug 24 19:14:20 mainline support is very cool Aug 24 19:14:42 seems like openbsd supports a bunch of boards... https://www.openbsd.org/armv7.html Aug 24 19:14:43 it means I will be able to run newer kernels for a very long time Aug 24 19:14:59 X86 is still supported even for i486 Aug 24 19:15:08 already for 30 years Aug 24 19:15:16 or 20-25 Aug 24 19:15:33 yes true, beaglebone's custom kernels are also very actively maintained Aug 24 19:15:55 a bunch yeas, but with a mainline linux at the same time not a lot of Aug 24 19:15:57 it's not like some of the chinese vendors which dump some heavily patched ancient kernel on the internet and say "here ya go, have fun" Aug 24 19:16:53 TI actively maintains their kernels for every LTS release and actively work on getting their work integrated into mainline Aug 24 19:17:10 I did not see any inexpensive non X86 device with such a long support cycle yet Aug 24 19:17:36 IBM for its very expensive Blades had firmware updates in 2014 Aug 24 19:17:49 and rcn does a great job at maintaining his custom kernels.... https://github.com/RobertCNelson/linux-stable-rcn-ee/releases Aug 24 19:17:50 and hardware was delivered in 2008 Aug 24 19:18:16 but newer firmware was even worse than original Aug 24 19:18:24 lol Aug 24 19:18:42 I am afraid of any expensive proprietary hardware since that so much Aug 24 19:19:12 it had HA controllers Aug 24 19:19:39 a pair of big plugable modules $5K each Aug 24 19:19:55 they had to work in a pair to be fault tolerant Aug 24 19:20:24 3 months was a maximal time frame before they disappeared in OS Aug 24 19:20:34 does not matter which OS was used Aug 24 19:20:51 VMWare ESXi, Redhat or Debian Aug 24 19:21:14 it happened in all 100 branches of out government organization Aug 24 19:21:27 finally admins have found a solution Aug 24 19:21:34 to pull out one board Aug 24 19:21:44 after that it became stable Aug 24 19:22:01 100 pieces of controllers * $5K each Aug 24 19:22:22 half a million dollars just for a waste Aug 24 19:22:32 kremlin: I don't know who maintains this page, but small nitpick: the AM335x is not an "TI OMAP 3/4 SoC" ... it may be a small bit OMAP-derived, but it's really not an OMAP => https://www.openbsd.org/armv7.html Aug 24 19:22:35 and imagine how much the whole thing costed Aug 24 19:22:48 and where was HA after controller pulled out Aug 24 19:23:09 nexgen2: btw, raspberry pi 3 also runs openbsd apparently Aug 24 19:23:10 it is idiotic to purchase such hardware Aug 24 19:23:34 Raspberry PI has a BLOB to boot Aug 24 19:24:12 it seems to be one of a few other boards which have very unpredictable lags Aug 24 19:24:29 nobody knows what it does during a lag Aug 24 19:24:38 seems like a X86 SMM Aug 24 19:24:46 sounds very unlikely Aug 24 19:25:13 according to opinions on linux.org.ru Aug 24 19:25:27 I did not try it by myself because of a BLOB Aug 24 19:25:52 and BBB is famous to be almost free of BLOBs Aug 24 19:26:02 may be except BROM Aug 24 19:26:11 which is present on all boards Aug 24 19:26:38 and BBB BROM according to your words is very small, only 1K if I remember correct Aug 24 19:26:44 goldfish memory :) Aug 24 19:27:11 you don't remember correctly Aug 24 19:27:17 :( Aug 24 19:28:01 I said secure-world (after initialization) only has 1KB of private ram (which moreover I know it doesn't use) Aug 24 19:28:45 and how much in size BROM is? Aug 24 19:31:49 CPU can run code only in RAM? not in ROM Aug 24 19:32:27 euhhh... pubrom is 48KB and includes most hardware initialziation and all actual bootloading code Aug 24 19:32:59 OpenBSD since a release like 6.5 indicates less free RAM by about 10% = 50Mb Aug 24 19:33:19 they tell it is somehow related to GPU RAM shared with the board Aug 24 19:33:34 and that RAM since this release is counted differently Aug 24 19:33:45 secrom is bigger but most of it is never used on GP secures, it contains the secure-world kernel for HS devices (whether a device is GP or HS depends on efuse programming) Aug 24 19:33:53 though 50Mb is a good size for a trojan Aug 24 19:33:57 on thee am335x? that sounds like nonsense Aug 24 19:34:57 hm, and what to do ? :) Aug 24 19:35:03 it sounds rather unlikely to me that openbsd supports the gpu anyway Aug 24 19:35:23 no idea, since I don't know what you're talking about, nor do I know anything about openbsd Aug 24 19:35:35 also, your usual paranoia is starting to get irritating again Aug 24 19:35:43 also they tell the whole GNU is compromised and sponsored by NSA Aug 24 19:35:52 wonder if they are not Aug 24 19:36:03 who is not sponsored by NSA now Aug 24 19:36:04 don't forget to put on your tinfoil hat to protect against mind control rays Aug 24 19:36:17 anyway, I'm off, need to do shopping Aug 24 19:36:26 happy shopping Aug 24 19:40:14 I am glad I already had by aluminium foil hat on to cool my brain that saves the time to make a tin foil one! :D Aug 24 20:05:15 GenTooMan: Hello! I got the BBBlue working w/ ArduCopter and my binding of the tx/rx working too. Aug 24 20:05:23 Motors "be" movin' man. Aug 24 20:05:36 movin'! Aug 24 20:06:09 Now. I need to figure out loitering on a per diem basis. Aug 24 20:06:41 GenTooMan: It was a binding issue this entire time. Oops! **** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat Aug 24 20:27:38 2019 Aug 25 01:16:29 set_ there is always something one misses hence it is always good to have people toss thoughts at.. not painful thoughts of course. Aug 25 01:51:51 Right. Not, "Eat garbage, set_!" But...something along the lines of, "Do not eat garbage set_!" Aug 25 01:55:26 set_ Or keep the trash to yourself etc. :D Aug 25 02:05:35 Oh! Aug 25 02:08:35 set_ anyhow working is a good thing. Aug 25 02:10:59 Yea boy! Working is nice! Aug 25 02:11:34 I noticed the FAA has a site dedicated to UAV hobbyists and enthusiasts. Aug 25 02:11:43 $5.00! Aug 25 02:12:18 In the US, people are cracking down on privacy concerns and drone footage taken w/out permission. Aug 25 02:12:53 They have specific, dedicated places where people can fly and then they have the entire other section (no fly zone). Aug 25 02:12:58 And this...just for drones. Aug 25 02:13:10 I cannot go above 400 ft. in fly zones. Aug 25 02:22:26 I saw where the BBB is going to space! Aug 25 02:22:48 I signed up for the news letter. Aug 25 02:24:40 I am going to read HR 302. This letter supposedly has info. in it that is dedicated to BBBlue in flight. Aug 25 02:40:52 p. 99 starts the info. on the BBBlue in flight if anyone is interested. **** ENDING LOGGING AT Sun Aug 25 02:59:57 2019