**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Sep 30 03:00:08 2019 Sep 30 03:00:57 there are also cheaper variants with less features that may suffice for some applications, like the BeagleBone Green or the PocketBeagle Sep 30 03:01:16 (avoid the BeagleBone Green Wireless) Sep 30 03:01:19 ah, thanks for the suggestion Sep 30 03:01:50 I question some design choices in the BeagleBone Green as well, but it's not as offensive as the Green Wireless :P Sep 30 03:02:16 ah hmm. I remember I chose the BBB for compatibility reasons with openbsd. I can't remember the details anymore Sep 30 03:02:28 they should all be the same to openbsd Sep 30 03:02:29 it's possible that the other boards had issues with openbsd, or weren't as widely tested Sep 30 03:02:40 with minor DT changes Sep 30 03:02:56 (except wifi/bt on wireless variants would probably not work) Sep 30 03:03:12 you'd have to ask kremlin, he uses openbsd Sep 30 03:03:23 ah, thanks Sep 30 03:03:37 I suspect the built in wireless probably didn't have an open source driver on openbsd Sep 30 03:03:45 That's probably why I didn't pick it, because I ended up buying 4 wifi dongles Sep 30 03:03:55 hello Sep 30 03:04:02 greetings kremlin Sep 30 03:10:56 I just need to research a few things, wifi, battery, and ethernet cable support Sep 30 03:11:33 battery? Sep 30 03:11:34 I got the atheros AR9271 wifi card Sep 30 03:11:45 Yes it would be really cool if the BBB could run on battery power for days Sep 30 03:11:58 Maybe I can get a mobile battery bank for that purpose Sep 30 03:12:11 your best bet then is some 5V usb power pack or such Sep 30 03:12:19 yeah Sep 30 03:13:09 (in theory the BBB has terminals for directly connecting a li-ion/lipo cell, but it has so many caveats and issues that it is best ignored) Sep 30 03:13:18 ah Sep 30 03:13:27 yeah sounds like it could be dangerous Sep 30 03:14:30 well mostly in the sense of stuff not working right (e.g. usb won't work) and you can easily create conditions where the processor may get damaged Sep 30 03:14:54 plus there's almost no useful status info, like battery charge and such Sep 30 03:15:11 I keep meaning to play with that; I have a 2S lipo pack from a Nissan Leaf sitting here, I think it would run the BBB for about two weeks ;) Sep 30 03:15:48 just use a cape :D Sep 30 03:15:55 What fun is that? Sep 30 03:16:04 myself: be sure to read https://elinux.org/BeagleBone_Power_Management#Battery Sep 30 03:16:24 and the forum thread it links Sep 30 03:16:44 veremitz: a cape? Sep 30 03:16:51 is there one for batteries? Sep 30 03:16:54 Why did I think it wanted 2S? Was I thinking of the blue/robotics cape? Sep 30 03:17:04 myself: the blue uses 2S yes Sep 30 03:17:33 And probably blows itself up less, one would hope. Sep 30 03:17:50 lol Sep 30 03:18:09 there's no "blowing up" either way, nothing quite that spectacular Sep 30 03:18:26 eg. https://andicelabs.com/beaglebone-powercape/ Sep 30 03:18:53 veremitz: thank yu Sep 30 03:18:56 thank you* Sep 30 03:18:56 looks nice actually Sep 30 03:19:45 what advantage does this have over a cheap power bank? Sep 30 03:20:30 power management and shutdown support I think Sep 30 03:20:40 Ah Sep 30 03:20:47 sounds like it also lets the bbb monitor the battery and charger Sep 30 03:21:15 rtc :) Sep 30 03:21:22 and that yeah Sep 30 03:21:48 https://github.com/AndiceLabs/PowerCape - I'ma bookmark this lol I like it Sep 30 03:22:21 lil bit pricey though Sep 30 03:22:41 doesn't sound like it has a "fuel gauge" (i.e. a chip to track battery state of charge) though Sep 30 03:23:05 zmatt: you seen *any* good hw that does that though? Sep 30 03:23:58 you could do something crude in sw Sep 30 03:24:19 like pretty much every mobile device has this... Sep 30 03:24:26 are you saying all of these are shit? => http://www.ti.com/power-management/battery-management/fuel-gauges/overview.html Sep 30 03:24:30 .. and its shit ;) Sep 30 03:25:32 the ones in the devices I'd used in recent times seemed to work fine Sep 30 03:25:40 well, I'd certainly like to think that TI had nailed it .. but my experience of android units after 1yr use, either it really has ruined a lipo battery .. or there's aproblem somewhere lol Sep 30 03:25:57 yeah? care to share? I'd be interested in some Real solutions Sep 30 03:26:13 I'm perfectly willin to believe a typical android phone ruins batteries in the long run Sep 30 03:26:28 yeah Sep 30 03:27:11 since there's a trade-off between having slightly better battery lifetime today (charge to absolute max voltage permitted) versus long-time lifetime Sep 30 03:27:25 and inital battery lifetime is probably a bigger selling point :P Sep 30 03:27:39 but none of this has anything to do with the fuel gauge anyway, it's the charger config Sep 30 03:27:59 true .. its related in terms of useful battery capacity and life though :D Sep 30 03:28:00 the fuel gauge's job is mostly just counting electrons going in and out Sep 30 03:28:05 yup Sep 30 03:28:27 the problem with that .. is electrons-in != electrons-out :( Sep 30 03:28:38 they have a habit of getting .. "lost" Sep 30 03:28:50 and that's where the voodoo is :) imho. Sep 30 03:29:16 sure but as my old laptop ages, battery indication continued to be reliable... it also showed the overall capacity of the battery going down and down over the years Sep 30 03:29:29 so no complaints about the fuel gauge Sep 30 03:29:40 you may have a point there Sep 30 03:29:55 but then laptops are more complicated beasts than a "simple" "smart" phone Sep 30 03:30:09 dunno, are they? Sep 30 03:30:39 good question :D Sep 30 03:30:47 they have more silicon, no? Sep 30 03:30:56 dunno, do they? Sep 30 03:31:02 idk .. Sep 30 03:31:15 bigger volume for sure .. but .. 0shrug- Sep 30 03:31:29 sure, but volume != complexity Sep 30 03:32:44 indeed Sep 30 03:33:00 Ah wow just took a look at the beaglebone AI Sep 30 03:33:20 and yeah there's more magic in a fuel gauge, but I suspect self-discharge is mainly relevant when powered off for extended time, in which case battery voltage is somewhat useful, whereas while a device is in use I suspect the discharge current dwarfs self-discharge, and tracking battery state of charge while charging or discharging requires counting electrons :P Sep 30 03:34:55 well .. only recently is my laptop on 24/7 and my phone always has been .. Sep 30 03:35:10 This looks really nice, seems the price tag is around $118 Sep 30 03:36:01 the AI? I think it was more in the US due to import tax or whatever Sep 30 03:36:16 its not produced in the US? Sep 30 03:36:17 also don't forget to add the cost of a fan to keep it from overheating ;P Sep 30 03:36:22 heh Sep 30 03:36:30 china Sep 30 03:36:40 by a US corp no? Sep 30 03:36:49 I mean .. *everything* is made in China/etc Sep 30 03:36:55 I have no idea Sep 30 03:36:57 mk Sep 30 10:26:13 hi Sep 30 10:27:15 is anyone advise me do we get opertaing temperature Min & Max for the product BeagleBone® AIBeagleBone® AI Sep 30 13:24:12 are the beaglebone black debian isos officially sanctioned by debian? (ie the code is fully open and trustworthy) https://beagleboard.org/latest-images Sep 30 13:41:36 jrmu: "sanctioned" .... what are you looking for.. Here is debian's view on derivatives: https://www.debian.org/derivatives/ Sep 30 13:45:37 ok thank rcn-ee[m] Sep 30 13:45:51 I was just curious if the beaglebone project maintained debian's free software principles to avoid using blobs in the derivative Sep 30 13:52:37 jrmu: we ship 'blobs' for end users to use hardware they paid for... If you want to build your own image blob free, go right a head... Sep 30 13:53:12 ah, ok thanks for the heads up rcn-ee[m] Sep 30 13:55:08 jrmu: so what's your take on "blobs" when a user emails us, saying hey, our wifi chipset from vendor X doesn't work, please add vendor X's blob to the default image.... Are you a "screw that user" or sure, let's add the blob? Sep 30 13:55:40 hm it would be nice if you could ship 2 versions Sep 30 13:55:44 so users could choose, either with or without Sep 30 13:55:54 if it's too much hassle, it's alright Sep 30 13:56:06 I plan to be using the BBB mostly for openbsd anyway, and they build their isos without blobs Sep 30 13:56:20 the main trouble is debian doesn't do an official BBB release of its own Sep 30 13:56:51 jrmu: think of this this way.. Use our image, or just use pure debian.. it does work just fine.. Sep 30 13:56:57 pure debian works fine? Sep 30 13:57:16 debian doesn't need to generate a BBB image, as they already do. ;) Sep 30 13:57:33 really? can you provide me a link? I'll use pure debian if they have an image available Sep 30 13:57:43 i was unaware it existed Sep 30 13:58:48 i'm looking for it, it's a two part process.. the base *.img plus a board u-boot blob you cat on top.. Sep 30 13:59:11 ah I remember they had a very complicated process Sep 30 14:00:18 jrmu: https://d-i.debian.org/daily-images/armhf/daily/ Sep 30 14:00:22 thank you rcn-ee[m] Sep 30 14:00:32 https://d-i.debian.org/daily-images/armhf/daily/u-boot/BeagleBoneBlack/ Sep 30 14:01:16 I don't know if that's buster, or bullseye... Sep 30 14:01:50 directions here: https://d-i.debian.org/daily-images/armhf/daily/netboot/SD-card-images/ Sep 30 14:02:04 cat firmware..img.gz partition.img.gz > complete_image.img Sep 30 14:02:51 zcat firmware..img.gz partition.img.gz > complete_image.img Sep 30 14:03:12 okay, it's 'unstable' so thus bullseye.. Sep 30 14:03:23 https://d-i.debian.org/daily-images/armhf/daily/build_hd-media.log Sep 30 18:34:28 rcn-ee[m]: bullseye is testing, unstable is always sid Oct 01 00:50:41 Is the Seeed Studio Touch Display Cape an actual touch display? Oct 01 00:51:33 depends? do you have a part number? Oct 01 00:52:10 Sure. Please hold. I need to look it up. Oct 01 00:53:52 https://www.seeedstudio.com/5-Inch-BeagleBone-Green-LCD-Cape-with-Resistive-Touch-p-2642.html is what I found thus far. Oct 01 00:53:58 The part number is missing. Oct 01 00:54:08 They have a SKU only. Oct 01 00:54:35 Resistive Touch Oct 01 00:54:47 Oh. I should have looked that up. Oct 01 00:54:47 it'll use the onboard adc.. Oct 01 00:55:02 I pushed the screen and nothing happens. Oct 01 00:55:15 http://statics3.seeedstudio.com/assets/file/bazaar/product/5INCH_BBG_00A2_SCH.pdf Oct 01 00:55:32 middle of schematic shows adc.. Oct 01 00:55:44 Okay. Oct 01 00:56:02 well run: sudo /opt/scripts/tools/version.sh Oct 01 00:56:12 Okay. Oct 01 00:56:14 Please hold. Oct 01 00:58:33 Sorry. I have to turn off the cape and plug in the BBG via the USB. Oct 01 00:58:38 The Cape powers the board too. Oct 01 01:01:44 https://pastebin.com/cEByy5Sv Oct 01 01:03:42 Do I just have an older, out-of-date bootloader, i.e. 2018-09? Oct 01 01:04:29 set_: well it looks to be loaded, this is the adc..: https://github.com/beagleboard/bb.org-overlays/blob/master/src/arm/BB-BONE-LCD5-01-00A1.dts#L176-L195 Oct 01 01:04:59 set_: ps, can you run cd /opt/scripts/tools/ ; "git pull" then ... sudo /opt/scripts/tools/version.sh Oct 01 01:05:08 Okay. Oct 01 01:05:13 there's a new bit dump from u-boot. ;) Oct 01 01:05:19 Okay. Oct 01 01:05:53 unable to update local ref? Oct 01 01:06:16 Should I use sudo? Oct 01 01:06:28 check network. ;) Oct 01 01:06:38 Okay. Oct 01 01:07:04 I am in. Oct 01 01:07:13 The cable is plugged in and ready to upate. Oct 01 01:07:16 update. Oct 01 01:07:17 SOrry. Oct 01 01:07:39 I cannot perform the git pull for some reason. Oct 01 01:07:47 I can update and upgrade. Oct 01 01:08:06 okay weird.. drop to !/ and just run: Oct 01 01:08:18 wget https://raw.githubusercontent.com/RobertCNelson/boot-scripts/master/tools/version.sh Oct 01 01:08:21 sudo ./version.sh Oct 01 01:08:33 Okay. Oct 01 01:08:34 !/ -> ~/ Oct 01 01:08:47 Oh. Oct 01 01:11:58 set_: did you get an output? i'm looking for these lines: Oct 01 01:12:03 * rcn-ee[m] sent a long message: < https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/v1/download/matrix.org/zncZCgxWtfYvJGCWKhQeDKay > Oct 01 01:12:14 https://pastebin.com/NtTWZSdm Oct 01 01:12:43 Oh! Oct 01 01:13:05 I need to update my uboot-overlays by hand. I was wondering why you were saying things about the adc. Oct 01 01:14:34 it's loading something.. anywho, i had update version.sh recently to help show what "u-boot" actually loaded based on new helpers we stuck in teh kernel and overlays repo.. Oct 01 01:14:40 your kernel and overlays version should have those new helpers.. Oct 01 01:14:49 you just need to run the new version of .version.sh and we can see what happened.. Oct 01 01:15:02 cd ~/ ; wget https://raw.githubusercontent.com/RobertCNelson/boot-scripts/master/tools/version.sh Oct 01 01:15:08 sudo /bin/bash version.sh Oct 01 01:16:01 Okay. Oct 01 01:18:11 https://pastebin.com/nJKME4rC Oct 01 01:18:44 oh bummer! Oct 01 01:18:50 Ut oh! Oct 01 01:20:46 What does "oh bummer!" mean? Oct 01 01:21:25 it means i screw up... in v4.14.x-ti: https://github.com/beagleboard/BeagleBoard-DeviceTrees/blob/v4.14.x-ti/src/arm/am335x-boneblack-uboot.dts#L16-L19 Oct 01 01:21:36 vs 4.19.x-ti: https://github.com/beagleboard/BeagleBoard-DeviceTrees/blob/v4.19.x-ti/src/arm/am335x-boneblack-uboot.dts#L20 Oct 01 01:21:39 Right. Oct 01 01:21:47 Ut oh! Oct 01 01:21:51 I will try again. Oct 01 01:21:59 that was the helper to show what *.dtb you started with... so i need to fix that... Oct 01 01:22:15 Okay. Can I just use the new one for 4.19.x? Oct 01 01:22:34 just run this: Oct 01 01:22:37 ls /proc/device-tree/chosen/overlays/ Oct 01 01:22:42 Okay. Oct 01 01:23:14 AM335X-PRU-RPROC-4-14-TI-00A0 BB-ADC-00A0 BB-BONE-eMMC1-01-00A0 BB-BONE-LCD5-01-00A1 M-BB-BBG-00A0 name Oct 01 01:23:46 ah we got something!! why the BB-ADC-00A0 being loaded???? ;) Oct 01 01:24:00 ooh yea! Oct 01 01:24:16 Just for reference, the Cape works. All except for the touch part. Oct 01 01:24:35 otherwise we see BB-BONE-eMMC1 and BB-BONE-LCD5 thus eMMC with lcd.. Oct 01 01:24:59 for shits, can you delete the /lib/firmware/BB-ADC-00A0* Oct 01 01:25:03 Sure. Oct 01 01:25:08 and reboot.. Oct 01 01:25:12 Okay. Oct 01 01:25:16 u-boot won't load it if it doesn't exist.. Oct 01 01:25:54 So, this command? rm -r /lib/firmware/BB-ADC-00A0*? Oct 01 01:26:06 or in the uEnv.txt file? Oct 01 01:26:40 yeah just the command.. Oct 01 01:26:44 Okay. Oct 01 01:26:48 ps i don't see the lcd5 here: https://github.com/RobertCNelson/Bootloader-Builder/blob/master/patches/v2019.04/am335x_evm/0002/board/ti/am335x/board.c#L326-L400 Oct 01 01:26:53 so we aren't properlly disablling things.. Oct 01 01:26:59 Oh. Oct 01 01:27:05 Okay. Oct 01 01:28:18 and rebooting. Oct 01 01:29:52 Okay...reboot has happened. Oct 01 01:31:36 AM335X-PRU-RPROC-4-14-TI-00A0 BB-BONE-eMMC1-01-00A0 BB-BONE-LCD5-01-00A1 M-BB-BBG-00A0 name Oct 01 01:31:49 does the touch screen work? Oct 01 01:32:54 Oh. I need to poweroff and try w/ the Cape powering the BBG. I cannot sign in on the BBG unless I connect the USB from the BBG. The Cape power method does not allow me to sign in on the terminal via PuTTY. If that makes any sense. Okay. Please hold. Oct 01 01:33:53 booting now. Oct 01 01:35:09 Man. You done did it now. Oct 01 01:35:12 Yea boy! Oct 01 01:35:35 That cape is fully functional! Oct 01 01:36:21 Debian in the background and a heavy xfce4 UI! Oct 01 01:37:09 Nice. Oct 01 01:37:51 So, I just need to make sure BB-ADC-00A0.dtbo is knocked out? Oct 01 01:38:09 removed, erased? Oct 01 01:38:29 i'm working on real fix.. (update u-boot) Oct 01 01:38:57 Oh. Okay. This is extremely nice of you. I found little to no info. on this subject. Oct 01 01:39:14 Seeed has seemed to abandon their older projects. Oct 01 01:39:35 no it's really up to us the community to make them work. ;) Oct 01 01:39:47 That makes sense. It is a shame I am clueless. Oct 01 01:40:19 it's nice as they can spin a board really quick and just let us do the software side.. if they did both, hardly anything would get done.. Oct 01 01:40:55 Oh. Oct 01 01:43:10 Busy bunch, I guess. Oct 01 01:44:51 Oh and the issue w/ the Cape, as far as I can tell, is this... Oct 01 01:45:08 I need to have a powered USB hub to run the mouse/keyboard. Oct 01 01:45:37 you don't get much out of standard usb for power.. Oct 01 01:45:48 But...when I poweroff my machine, the BBG, the board boots back up before i can unplug the USB from the computer. Oct 01 01:46:29 The Cape and board run off the USB power from my powered USB hub. Oct 01 01:46:39 Or... Oct 01 01:46:56 It just boots again for some reason before I can unplug the machine. Oct 01 01:46:57 so here is the fix, it's building right now: https://github.com/RobertCNelson/Bootloader-Builder/commit/9d11f6feef1e659f5be6f785a3054b8151e1a4de Oct 01 01:47:07 Okay. Oct 01 01:49:32 Let me try to poweroff the machine and see if it boots again by itself. Oct 01 01:49:55 okay, u-boot build and pushed out, i need to smoke test it first. ;) Oct 01 01:50:07 Okay. Oct 01 01:50:09 Me too! Oct 01 01:50:55 The board booted again w/out my permission. Blah. Oct 01 01:51:11 brb Oct 01 01:52:02 okay, it came up just fine: Oct 01 01:52:05 * rcn-ee[m] sent a long message: < https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/v1/download/matrix.org/tLVtvvOEJvOFqdgZsiJzNbDa > Oct 01 01:52:26 So just run: sudo /opt/scripts/tools/developers/update_bootloader.sh Oct 01 01:53:32 *and you had an old version on the eMMC, so you'll have to fix that too. ;) Oct 01 01:56:02 Okay. Oct 01 01:59:37 The update and recovery have happened. Oct 01 01:59:44 have = has Oct 01 02:00:27 Now. I just need to figure out how to update my bootloader w/out taking me cape off. Oct 01 02:00:29 Sheesh. Oct 01 02:00:39 I guess I will reach in and hold the S2 button. Oct 01 02:01:04 Oh. Oct 01 02:01:05 do you need eMMC, just blow out the 1st couple MB Oct 01 02:01:13 I could...right. Oct 01 02:01:16 No. Oct 01 02:01:20 I could just erase it. Oct 01 02:01:27 I think. i better check. Oct 01 02:01:44 or take out microSD, boot into eMMC and run the same command. ;) Oct 01 02:01:57 Oh yea. Oct 01 02:02:01 Nice idea. Oct 01 02:02:06 Okay. Oct 01 02:02:13 Reverting to unplugging mode. Oct 01 02:02:22 ha. Oct 01 02:03:19 I have not messed w/ the BBG in a while. Oct 01 02:03:32 I probably have some older, obsolete source on it. Yikes. Oct 01 02:04:09 circa 2018! Oct 01 02:04:45 This is funny. THere is no UI. It boots into the terminal. Oct 01 02:04:46 Nice. Oct 01 02:06:49 Okay. So, w/out the UI, I am terminal ready. This is nice to know. Oct 01 02:09:32 Dudes. I got a little computer on my little computer! Oct 01 02:10:06 Now. If I could only get to the processor of the Cape. I have a yellow line down the left side. Oct 01 02:10:14 I am not sure what that line is doing. Oct 01 02:11:39 So I received the beaglebone ai today -- anyone know how to get bluetooth working? Oct 01 02:12:04 There's no controller when I open bluetoothctl Oct 01 02:13:31 https://github.com/beagleboard/beaglebone-ai/wiki/System-Reference-Manual Oct 01 02:13:48 at arashed31 please submit that bug to here: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!categories/beagleboard/beaglebone-ai and https://github.com/beagleboard/beaglebone-ai/issues Oct 01 02:16:48 okay I appreciate it -- I've also been trying to use bluetooth on the BeagleBone black wireless Oct 01 02:17:28 But there I'm using the debian minimal fs from your site so I'm assuming I'm missing some packages that are in the official bone image Oct 01 02:20:47 BBBW and bluetooth! I once got it set up but I have the IoT image and it has everything on it already. Oct 01 02:21:29 arashed31: Do you think you could go to the debian archives online and find the dependencies? Oct 01 02:23:02 arashed31: is the 'bluetooth' package installed? Oct 01 02:25:44 zmatt on the BBBW it looks like that was not installed so let me see if that does anything... Oct 01 02:27:23 yeah still no controller **** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue Oct 01 02:59:57 2019