**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Feb 05 03:00:09 2020 Feb 05 04:10:02 Well hmmm something isn't right... and the code is a bit huge for waste bin.. argh. Feb 05 04:14:17 GenTooMan: I am glad you are alive. Feb 05 04:23:58 That's just a rumor ... :D Feb 05 04:24:30 GenTooMan: what are you working on? Feb 05 04:26:39 I need a line that is 1.625" * 2. Then, I am going to join them w/ two 3/4" lines. I have some work cut out for me now but that is just gossip. Feb 05 04:36:55 I'm attempting to use the spi thing with Python however no activity from the LCD so my guess is it's not working yet. Feb 05 04:37:25 The documentation could be more carefully organized that is for certain. Feb 05 04:40:50 Oh. Feb 05 04:41:17 I have a digital servo I found and it works but there is no datasheet for it. I need to be careful. Feb 05 04:41:32 Multimeter to the rescue. Feb 05 04:45:59 I just learned what digital, brushless servo means. Phew. Feb 05 04:47:31 Ummm right.. it just means it has a digital controller for commutation instead of a brush system. Otherwise it doesn't mean a whole lot except when you are trying to sell stuff. Feb 05 04:48:05 Oh. Feb 05 04:48:23 Okay. Feb 05 04:48:28 but... doesn't every servo have a controller? Feb 05 04:48:35 Right-oh! Feb 05 04:48:52 I guess it could be analog rather than digital Feb 05 04:50:10 Less parts? Feb 05 04:50:16 Or..no chip? Feb 05 04:50:25 ? Feb 05 04:50:41 it's an implementation detail regardless Feb 05 04:50:52 Okay. Feb 05 04:51:06 Hey @zmatt, what are you doing? Feb 05 04:51:09 As long as the servo acts the same it's kind of just a winded discussion. Feb 05 04:51:18 waking up Feb 05 04:51:20 Oh. Feb 05 04:51:23 Wake up! Feb 05 04:51:29 zmatt and now I should sleep. Feb 05 04:51:30 working on it Feb 05 04:51:54 Okay. No! GenTooMan, but you could code all night? Feb 05 04:52:24 Did anyone ever tell you guys that people should treat you all as super heroes? Feb 05 04:52:25 set_ I can get sick and die easily. At the moment, I am still alive, but quite miserable. Feb 05 04:52:32 Oh. Feb 05 04:52:35 Sorry, mate. Feb 05 04:52:38 Okay. NO issue. Feb 05 04:53:34 Try to eat out less and play w/ the food etiquette at home! Feb 05 05:11:08 no offense. Feb 05 16:20:35 m Feb 05 16:53:45 m to you Feb 05 19:20:58 welp Feb 05 19:21:11 zmatt: looks like I fried that PocketBeagle's USB after all Feb 05 19:21:46 new PB arrived and a more direct USB A port wiring works fine, swapped SD cards and the wires to the old one, nothing Feb 05 19:21:53 typically speaking, swapping gnd and vcc is rarely healthy for hardware Feb 05 19:23:02 appreciate the troubleshooting help Feb 05 19:23:37 look at it from the bright side: at least that pocketbeagle still works apart from the usb host port. it's not uncommon for the AM335x to be dead entirely if you expose a pin to overvoltage Feb 05 19:24:09 yeah, everything else seems fine, no need to recycle it yet Feb 05 19:25:01 don't forget to mark it in some way, so future-you doesn't forget that that particular pocketbeagle has that problem Feb 05 19:41:46 hey zmatt looking to do a web app on the bbb, everything I see is for python 2.7 and my understanding is that's not a good route to go. You have any good links on doing it in Python 3? Feb 05 19:42:15 uhh, what do you mean everything you see is for python 2.7 ? Feb 05 19:42:46 All the libararies I see are for 2.7 Feb 05 19:42:57 like the BBIO lib is only python 2.7 apparently Feb 05 19:43:01 any python framework for web development that's still python2-only is most likely dead and unmaintained Feb 05 19:43:20 https://www.instructables.com/id/Beaglebone-Black-Web-Control-Using-WebPy/ Feb 05 19:43:23 This is what I started looking at Feb 05 19:43:50 Flask! Feb 05 19:43:52 some adafruit libs are python2-only yeah, but most adafruit libs suck anyway and they're typically redundant Feb 05 19:43:58 That's all I really want/need to do, I haven't really found a good starting point. Feb 05 19:44:09 You have a good link/starting point post that I can look into? Feb 05 19:44:11 biggi: note that for web stuff there's no reason to look for a beaglebone-specific tutorial, any will do Feb 05 19:44:27 there's nothing beaglebone-specific about developing a web app Feb 05 19:44:30 That's probably my problem. Again, I'm hardware d00d Feb 05 19:44:36 I've been looking for web apps on bbb Feb 05 19:45:06 I was told a web app would probably be easier than coding my own sockets so web app + json to transmit data seems to be the way to go Feb 05 19:45:06 that's just oddly specific. you're looking for web apps in python, or maybe at most web apps in python on linux Feb 05 19:45:26 You have a good guide that would be newb friendly? Feb 05 19:45:27 that seems unlikely, but it depends on the context Feb 05 19:46:00 so basically i'm making a state machine that will ping the bbb over ip, have it do something/read a sensor then report back data Feb 05 19:46:19 I'm all ears on the "best" way to do it Feb 05 19:48:01 that's so vague and has such an enormous solution space that it mostly depends on what happens to be convenient in the specific application (on both sides) and what you happen to have experience with (which is apparently nothing, so no help there) Feb 05 19:48:34 I don't take offense to that :) Feb 05 19:49:00 We've got a linux machine that will be pinging the boards. Again, just looking for something simple more than anything. Feb 05 19:49:14 simply receiving commands via a socket is simpler than a web app, though a decent framework can probably make a web app about as easy (albeit at the expense of resources) Feb 05 19:50:04 A guy here at work said he thought the web app + json approach would be easier he thought in the long run. Feb 05 19:50:40 that's probably because he's used to that way of solving things... if the tool you know is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail Feb 05 19:51:18 This is true. Feb 05 19:51:48 from what you've described so far, I'd say simplest is to have a simple program (which can even be a shell script) read requests from stdin and write responses to stdout, so you can test it locally by just running it, and then create an inetd-style systemd service Feb 05 19:52:17 at its most basic it could be a 10-line shell script and two tiny config files Feb 05 19:52:55 ok i might be able to manage that Feb 05 19:54:11 The other kinda not-related question on this. I've been debating after playing with this at work setting one up at home to stream video over. Is there a good way to stream a USB camera from the bbb over ip back to my main computer? Feb 05 19:54:35 Thinking of setting a camera up to watch my smoker and not having to get out of bed XD Feb 05 19:54:58 usb camera on a bbb? oof Feb 05 19:55:44 Yup. I've got just a Logitech web cam I'd like to stream the data back to my router I have in the garage so I can login and check it Feb 05 19:56:03 but why use a bbb for that? Feb 05 19:56:10 because i have them haha Feb 05 19:56:11 I think you can get IP webcams for less money than a BBB Feb 05 19:57:17 I already have the camera and the bbb Feb 05 19:57:21 so just trying to see what we can do with it Feb 05 19:57:23 usb on the bbb sucks for performance and causes high cpu load (partly due to the hardware, partly because the driver sucks) Feb 05 19:58:00 anyway, apart from that, it's a question that has nothing to do with the beaglebone Feb 05 19:58:14 you're just asking about streaming a usb webcam from a linux system Feb 05 19:58:28 I'm sure you can find guides about that Feb 05 19:58:31 This is also true. I guess I'm just being too specific XD Feb 05 19:58:40 Need to get out of my Windows mindset Feb 05 19:59:34 Most of my other software dev has been wpf/winforms. This is really my first time messing with Linux as more than a "let's try this out for 15 minutes" thing Feb 05 19:59:58 basically... if what you want to do is not related to pruss, the bootloader, or the two big expansion headers on the BBB, it's probably not beaglebone-specific Feb 05 20:00:45 This is true. I will need to be able to access the expansion headers, but I've messed with RPis a little, so that shouldn't be too bad. Feb 05 20:00:54 As long as there is a good lib for it Feb 05 20:01:23 anything you want to do with those probably *is* beaglebone-specific Feb 05 20:02:45 Right. I think I misworded what I was thinking. Feb 05 20:02:50 I'm not super good with words sometimes. Feb 05 20:03:07 (though it mostly uses generic interfaces that linux has, but some setup may be beaglebone-specific) Feb 05 20:04:05 I'm totally new to all of this, so when I'm unsure of something, a lot of times I get too specific and get myself into a hole. Feb 05 20:04:16 It's an issue I have an something I'm working on with our "personal development plans" at work Feb 05 20:07:18 btw, outline of a stupid-simple shell script that accepts commands and dispatches them: https://pastebin.com/0i4X6bJG obviously something like this is just as easy in perl, python, or pretty much any other programming language you may prefer Feb 05 20:08:16 I guess even simpler would be to just accept 1 command (and create a new connection each time you want to send a command) ... then at least you don't need to think about how to determine when a command is done producing output Feb 05 20:08:24 I will look into that. Will have to see what all it does. Feb 05 20:09:49 I will probably do the one connection and keep it open until we are done Feb 05 20:09:56 In my head, that makes the most sense. Feb 05 20:10:01 But I could be convinced otherwise Feb 05 20:10:42 it just depends on your definition of done, but your description of what you want to do was extremely vague Feb 05 20:11:37 but basically: if you can make it work as a commandline program, you can make that program remotely executable pretty easily Feb 05 20:11:55 I probably still have an example somewhere... Feb 05 20:13:00 Let's see if this helps (it might not): I've got a linux machine that will be the master connected to say 3 of the bbbs over IP. I'm going to ping each one individually and get a temperature reading from a sensor and send that reading back to the master. Then the master will do some logic based off the 3 readings and then tell each of the bbbs to Feb 05 20:13:01 turn on a heater if necessary. Feb 05 20:14:19 Nice! Feb 05 20:14:28 Does that clear things up at all? Feb 05 20:15:12 yup, so you basically have two command (read sensor, set heater state), one of which produces a reply, and you want them remotely executable Feb 05 20:15:39 Yup Feb 05 20:16:05 And even the set heater state would probably be good to send a replay of "ok" just so I know it's going Feb 05 20:16:19 sure Feb 05 20:16:59 so you could for example make a simple program that accepts 1-line commands and produces a 1-line response for each Feb 05 20:17:07 pretty much yup Feb 05 20:17:25 (which is how many older internet protocols work) Feb 05 20:17:33 so this goes back to the original question of: does this warrant a web app (espcially if later say I want to put a PWM motor on there) Feb 05 20:17:39 no? Feb 05 20:17:43 to expand, or is sockets best Feb 05 20:17:51 the only reason to use a web app is if you want the client to run in a web browser Feb 05 20:18:27 otherwise it's just extra complication Feb 05 20:19:50 That might not be bad for debugging, having it display the current reading if I log into it Feb 05 20:20:02 But besides debugging purposes, I don't know that there's much use there. Feb 05 20:21:32 I saw a guy once make a web socket w/ the BBB for landscaping w/ switches, valves, and had an GUI. Feb 05 20:22:07 I'm just debating now if the GUI is totally necessary or just nice to have for debugging. Feb 05 20:22:18 Might still outta do it....could be nice to have just in case. Feb 05 20:22:27 Especially if I expand on this for more outputs and what not Feb 05 20:22:50 Oh. The UI is just for poops and giggles, right? So, it can be visually nice? Feb 05 20:23:15 It's more just for me if there's an issue to see motor state, current temp/etc Feb 05 20:23:25 And then, you can check it, like you said, from bed, the bar, or the Home Depot. Feb 05 20:23:29 So if I can't see it, that's ok. If I can see it, then it'll be super helpful. Feb 05 20:23:32 Oh. Feb 05 20:23:35 https://pastebin.com/GSHtBFHd a simple command handler could be this simple Feb 05 20:24:12 Nice, that does look simple. Feb 05 20:24:19 biggi: the interface your program exposes isn't really relevant to the access it has to stuff Feb 05 20:24:39 Right. I was just thinking for debugging and what not, it might be nice to have to check things out. Feb 05 20:24:46 It can be a super simple interface Feb 05 20:24:51 Just a few textboxes Feb 05 20:24:58 buttons! Feb 05 20:25:26 Speaking of...I should learn something else besides buttons. Feb 05 20:25:30 though if you want to support multiple simultaneous connections and keep shared state between them (that's not stored external to the program) then you'll need a slightly more complicated program, and you'll want to use a proper language and not a shell script Feb 05 20:25:49 (but still pretty basic) Feb 05 20:25:57 haha ok so i'm starting to see the benefit now of the UI. So web app it might be. The command handler though is still relevant as it can be in the back end Feb 05 20:26:12 I guess at that point using Flask might actually be easier, but not by a huge margin Feb 05 20:26:29 I'd still say it's mostly up to personal preference and the specific needs of the situation Feb 05 20:26:38 Awesome. Now I might have a good starting point. Flask it is! Feb 05 20:26:46 I wish I knew more about all this stuff Feb 05 20:26:51 ....time to get learning I guess Feb 05 20:26:53 note: I just mention that one because I happen to know about it Feb 05 20:27:07 I have pretty much zero experience with it Feb 05 20:27:14 I've heard Flask before. People say it's a good one Feb 05 20:27:19 Has lots of support and what not. Feb 05 20:27:44 it sounds like your needs are extremely minimal hence probably pretty much any framework will do and most of them will be kinda way overkill Feb 05 20:28:50 I heard that ror is good too. Oh and node.js works too. Feb 05 20:29:00 Probably. Most of what I'll need is going to be in the logic. Like I said earlier, I may want to add something like a PWM blower to the setup. That would involve more I/O stuff Feb 05 20:29:10 set_: node.js is not a web framework Feb 05 20:29:32 Now the guy here mentioned sending data back and forth over json. Never used json either...does that at least make sense where I can start looking into it? Feb 05 20:29:41 Oh. Feb 05 20:29:46 biggi: changing a pwm is basically just writing a value to a sysfs attribute (which is 1 line of pure python) Feb 05 20:29:57 (or 1 line of a shell script) Feb 05 20:29:59 Right, I didn't think that would be hard Feb 05 20:30:06 So does the json comment make sense? Feb 05 20:30:15 on transferring the info Feb 05 20:30:33 if you have a need to transfer structured data, sure I guess Feb 05 20:30:37 so far doesn't really sound like you do Feb 05 20:31:00 I thought maybe returning motor state and temperature might be considered structred data Feb 05 20:31:02 :shrug" Feb 05 20:31:13 if you want to return everything in a single request then yes Feb 05 20:31:36 json would be a common choice (although it's not the most readable format for humans) Feb 05 20:31:55 (nor for computers for that matter, but that's what json libraries are for :P ) Feb 05 20:32:00 Sounds good to me. So flask web app, python back end and json communication Feb 05 20:32:15 At least now I have a starting point for google haha Feb 05 20:32:46 "flask web app, python back end", that's a weird say to phrase things... flask is the python framework you use for the backend Feb 05 20:32:51 I'm just glad I got these setup on a PoE swtich on my own XD Feb 05 20:33:10 Yup, I'm still thinking windows world Feb 05 20:33:23 xaml front with c# back....all in the same program Feb 05 20:33:27 I need to stop Feb 05 20:33:34 Keep going! Feb 05 20:33:34 I don't see how this would be a windows/linux difference Feb 05 20:33:39 I know nothing about xaml Feb 05 20:33:52 i miss xaml Feb 05 20:34:08 fairly easy to setup nice looking GUIs Feb 05 20:34:33 what does it have to do with web-based APIs? Feb 05 20:35:00 the thing you've been talking about is software-to-software communication, not a user interface Feb 05 20:35:09 It was more in how I worded "front end" and "back end" a wpf app has xaml for the gui and c# for the logic Feb 05 20:35:13 so I don't really understand why it came up here Feb 05 20:35:38 I'm making a flask web app with json XD Feb 05 20:35:39 better? Feb 05 20:35:42 no? Feb 05 20:35:51 Just to state this clearly, "Flask is a difficult microframework to pick up." They have tons of nested options. Feb 05 20:36:05 set_: it seemed pretty trivial to me Feb 05 20:36:29 Let me show you. @zmatt: You are good at reading the API easily. I, as you know, have issues w/ APIs still. Feb 05 20:36:33 not flask web app with json, more flask web app + sending data with json Feb 05 20:37:05 biggi: json is just a way to serialize a data structure into bytes Feb 05 20:37:13 I'm just not smart on this software stuff. I'm a sparkey. Anyone want help designing a stepper motor driver or some comparators? Feb 05 20:37:28 https://www.palletsprojects.com/p/flask/ <<< now, I see nesting in the source but w/ someone that knows exactly how it works, it is easy to read. Feb 05 20:37:38 which you'll need since the response from a HTTP request is, in the end, just a flat sequence of bytes (ignoring the headers) Feb 05 20:38:28 I know python has http stuff too. This may be an option as well. I will look up some info. Feb 05 20:38:31 set_: I know you're just trying to be helpful, but can you please stop trying to make other people as confused as you are? Feb 05 20:38:38 Fine. Feb 05 20:38:41 Sheesh. Feb 05 20:39:02 Haha it's all good :) Feb 05 20:39:03 @zmatt: okay. I am calming down. You guys have fun. Feb 05 20:39:19 I gotta split for the day, have to take kiddo to the doctor. Feb 05 20:39:27 I need to do some shopping Feb 05 20:39:35 I'll start looking into all this tomorrow and come back if I have BBB specific questions Feb 05 20:39:43 Hope everyone has a good night Feb 05 20:45:34 Wait for me! Feb 05 20:49:36 Okay, I will admit it. Flask is a nice framework. I am reading more now. I was upset when I read it last time. Feb 05 21:05:48 hmmm do I need to set the pin configuration to use the SPI bus with BBB image "Linux beaglebone 4.14.71-ti-r80 #1 SMP PREEMPT Fri Oct 5 23:50:11 UTC 2018 armv7l GNU/Linux" Feb 05 21:06:31 you need to set the pin configuration to use SPI on a BBB regardless of the image or kernel you use Feb 05 21:07:19 all digital i/o on P9/P8 default to gpio, except for the i2c bus on P9.19/20 Feb 05 21:09:31 right.. that would explain the "why doesn't it work" Feb 05 21:10:13 on recent images just do "config-pin $pin spi" for each of the pins Feb 05 21:10:53 actually if I remember correctly the cs pin needs mode "spi_cs" instead of "spi" Feb 05 21:10:57 something like that Feb 05 21:11:02 or, alternatively, use an SPI overlay Feb 05 21:11:28 (if they're not broken when enabled in combination with cape-universal, I vaguely recall they are) Feb 05 21:13:19 hmmm thanks.. hopefully that didn't interrupt your shopping needs. Feb 05 21:13:26 nope, just got back Feb 05 21:17:06 that was fast Feb 05 22:34:04 gesh config_pin is a massive script Feb 06 01:11:01 now I wished I had a better scope :P Feb 06 01:14:07 I second that notion. If only scopes grew on trees. Feb 06 01:51:31 what do you want in a scope that isn't in your current one? Feb 06 01:53:56 my current one is a 50 year old analogue scope. So quite a few things. Feb 06 01:57:48 I have 1.5 channels (it alternates between channels for dual channel functionality). So 2 real channels. trace capture because I will miss something if I blink. stable trace position hate that wandering trace. Less heat as it tends to warm the area up and draws about 350 watts to boot (it has tubes in it go figure). Otherwise it's great for vector usage. Feb 06 02:00:38 ah... the analog scope is handy for some obscure things...best to have both Feb 06 02:09:42 Yes so a new scope is necessary. I don't have to justify it, just get it. Feb 06 02:14:36 Me, easier display readings. The display is too tiny. Feb 06 02:16:06 get bigger eyes.. really that works in the movies. Feb 06 02:16:44 Boink! Feb 06 02:17:15 I got my bot up and running. Thank you to everyone who participated. Feb 06 02:17:26 i even went to a local "makerspace." Feb 06 02:17:53 Odd? Yes. I sat there and the BBBW could not download the drivers for some reason. They must have firewalled me again. Feb 06 02:18:20 or...is it b/c I did not have internet access on my bbbw? Feb 06 02:18:40 Either way, no drivers equals some odd happenings. Feb 06 02:24:01 I felt bad for the lady hosting the place. She had to wrangle children while they flipped out. It was odd. Feb 06 02:44:07 GenTooMan: note that there's software for the BBB that turns it into a 14-channel 100Msamples/s logic analyzer: https://beaglelogic.readthedocs.io/ (no external hardware required to capture 3.3V logic signals, use an external buffer to support a wider voltage range and to protect the BBB's IOs) Feb 06 02:54:23 Well I still need to replace this thing I've had for 2 decades... :D Feb 06 02:54:34 but it's good to have options! Feb 06 02:55:32 I really should play with BeagleLogic some time, it seems like a useful tool to have in one's toolbox Feb 06 02:56:02 I also have more than just a few spare BBB.s Feb 06 02:59:07 yep, so do we, so there's really no excuse to not just have a 14-channel logic analyzer around for when you need one **** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu Feb 06 02:59:57 2020