**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat Nov 14 02:59:56 2020 Nov 14 03:00:46 Putting HALs on the AI is not easy. But now, w/ that Comp. Layer, I can use the MotorCape for two servos or add communication via i2c from the BBAI to another board for action. Nov 14 03:01:35 It is a start. Nov 14 03:01:54 Machines and machines. Nov 14 03:08:40 Are there any available items outside of the fanCape for cooling the AI if I was to add another Cape on top? Nov 14 03:09:08 I am asking b/c the fanCape would just suck hot air from the above Cape I plan on using. Nov 14 03:09:44 We need one of those brass side vents w/ fan. Like radiators for the AI. Ha. Nov 14 03:10:34 Ut oh. the heatsink on the AI is threaded. Yea boy! Nov 14 03:10:56 I may be able to fashion something together. Nov 14 03:14:48 you might have to go with a water block cooler. Nov 14 03:15:51 Ha. Maybe. Nov 14 03:17:41 I wanted to help this fellow. he seems to think I know things. So, we are venturing in together to try to make some GEN4 Cape for the BBB work for the AI> Nov 14 03:18:11 But, b/c of heat, the Cape in question may never work. Nov 14 03:18:20 it's more likely than you think. If you cover the processor air will be trapped in a layer between boards, normal cooling already in that case is simply not possible. Next is the amount of energy needed to be moved, likely 2-5W doesn't sound like much but it's enough too cook things. Nov 14 03:19:17 so yes you are likely to be forced to use water cooling in that case. Unless you have a huge pile of cash and can make a heat pipe in your basement. Nov 14 03:19:47 Right...the fanCape will work I am assuming but I will need to lengthen or add the next Cape to the right of the board or something like that idea. Nov 14 03:19:54 Oh. Nov 14 03:19:57 That is what you mean. Nov 14 03:20:37 There are no basements in where i live. We have carports. Ha. Nov 14 03:21:03 Outside of that joke... Nov 14 03:21:13 Water cooling blocks, okay. Nov 14 03:21:25 But, I would need to figure it out. Nov 14 03:21:36 it sounds a little complicated right now. Nov 14 03:22:17 Too bad lorforlinux did not make a dt-overlay for the AI and GEN4 capes. Nov 14 03:22:44 Sheesh. That person and whomever he encountered did it right. I just need to keep trying to figure out when it would be a good time to test it. Nov 14 03:23:22 So, I am trying to understand something. Nov 14 03:23:39 1 do you have 3d models of each device involved? Nov 14 03:23:47 No. Nov 14 03:23:49 1. No. Nov 14 03:24:13 I have a 2D of the AI but that is all. I think. Nov 14 03:24:18 And... Nov 14 03:24:26 It is in fritzing format. Nov 14 03:24:30 Oops. Nov 14 03:24:47 Why would I need the 3D models of the devices? Nov 14 03:24:56 Chips and chunks? Nov 14 03:24:58 Is the AI board done in KiCAD Faultium or some such? I suggest you ask for a 3d model of the board. Nov 14 03:25:13 bluntly put YOU NEED IT BADLY. Nov 14 03:25:18 Oh. Nov 14 03:25:20 Okay. Nov 14 03:25:44 So, measuring in real space is too time consuming? Nov 14 03:26:25 I mean. I can measure w/ a thingy. I got one. Nov 14 03:26:26 I think the design files are available, I'm baffled why people these days think they can make a board and NOT have 3d files any more. It's lazy and politely stated rude to the customer. Nov 14 03:26:51 Yea. But, you guys do so much. I think there are only so many of you left. Nov 14 03:26:58 So... Nov 14 03:27:12 Right anyhow the reason you need the 3d files is to follow air flow Nov 14 03:27:12 w/ respect to time and effort per person, one cannot be so upset all the time. Nov 14 03:27:18 Oh. Nov 14 03:27:22 Hmm. Nov 14 03:27:23 Also check form fit and function. Nov 14 03:27:26 Right. Nov 14 03:27:33 Air flow? Nov 14 03:27:35 Like... Nov 14 03:27:51 Can I deduce the air flow from a photo or model? Nov 14 03:27:52 hot air from the AI has to move .. so it can get cool air see? Nov 14 03:28:01 I understand that idea. Nov 14 03:28:16 I can heat transfer. SOrt of. Nov 14 03:28:24 can = get Nov 14 03:29:07 So, a model of the so called air movement would be nice? Nov 14 03:29:33 I mean...I am sure there is some sort of FLIR modeling that can be done. Nov 14 03:29:48 Is this what you are describing? Nov 14 03:29:58 nice isn't the word I would use, it's kind of mandatory. If you have tightly spaced boards you need to know where the air is coming and going, and be sure cool air in hot air out. Nov 14 03:30:14 Okay. Nov 14 03:30:34 I am getting how this is going to work. I do not ever want to hire out again. Nov 14 03:30:46 FLIR stuff is expensive. Nov 14 03:31:11 I researched the idea a while back. I found particular ideas. Nov 14 03:31:23 The funding got outrageous. Nov 14 03:31:31 well I just want you to understand you don't want your air flow stalled or mixing hot air with the cool intake air. Nov 14 03:31:38 Oh. Nov 14 03:31:42 I got you now. Nov 14 03:31:48 So, hot out and cool in. Okay. Nov 14 03:31:49 Okay. Nov 14 03:31:51 You'll cook the processor and your boards. Nov 14 03:31:56 Right. Nov 14 03:32:08 it would be like a small elect. storm. Nov 14 03:32:22 It would sweat and rain. Nov 14 03:32:24 Ha. Nov 14 03:32:33 So as I said you need to manage the air flow so cool air in one direction hot air in the other. Nov 14 03:33:06 Okay. So, maybe flir stuff can be avoided. I just need a vacuum and a cooler. Nov 14 03:33:36 Blower fan or vacuum and then add coolant somehow. Nov 14 03:34:07 In such a tight space, that is going to be miraculous. Nov 14 03:34:28 the coolent can be fresh air or water going to a radiator with it's own fan. Mostly depends on how things stack up. Hence why I was asking about 3d models. Nov 14 03:34:54 Aw. Okay. I hate, I mean it, 3D modeling source. Hate it. Always have. Nov 14 03:35:02 But... Nov 14 03:35:10 I will try to see if the 3D model exists. Nov 14 03:35:20 I am not going to build it. Nov 14 03:36:45 There is a .stp file. Nov 14 03:37:01 I didn't suggest you should. Each board you use probably needs a model for it. then jam the models together so they mechanically fit correctly. Nov 14 03:37:03 Under mechanical in github for the AI. Nov 14 03:37:16 Jam! Nov 14 03:37:39 I'll look for a moment. Be back. Nov 14 03:37:47 Wait. Nov 14 03:38:04 Here: https://github.com/beagleboard/beaglebone-ai/blob/master/Mechanical/PCBA_BeagleBone_AI_Rev_A1.stp Nov 14 03:38:07 While you wait I was looking at this time https://www.analog.com/en/design-center/evaluation-hardware-and-software/evaluation-boards-kits/adalm-pluto.html#eb-overview Nov 14 03:38:15 time==thing Nov 14 03:38:52 Neat. Nov 14 03:39:05 There used to be some SDR for the BBB a while back. Nov 14 03:39:11 I wonder if that still exists. Nov 14 03:39:19 I think seeed made it. Nov 14 03:43:03 https://www.seeedstudio.com/KiwiSDR-Board-p-2723.html Nov 14 03:43:20 Neat-o. I never got one. I always wanted to get it. Nov 14 03:43:30 Get on the short wave. Nov 14 03:44:02 GenTooMan: time == thing? Nov 14 03:44:06 Did you make that thing? Nov 14 03:44:32 Oh. Nov 14 03:44:35 I understand. Nov 14 03:44:59 Sorry. I thought you were saying you were charging for a Adalm for info. Nov 14 03:46:55 I think the threaded holes on the processor heatsink are 4s. Nov 14 03:47:12 Who in their right mind has some m4s? Nov 14 03:47:22 Dang it. Nov 14 03:48:24 I got m3.5. Aw! Nov 14 03:49:57 hmm it might be a bit complicated. the fan likely would want to mount to the lower board and a cheap thin PCB block air flow. I assume the connector is similar or the same as the old BBB? Nov 14 03:50:41 Connector? Which connector are we discussing? Nov 14 03:50:53 You mean, the headers? Nov 14 03:52:54 yes the female headers on the BB-OI I mean AI Nov 14 03:53:03 yes. Nov 14 03:53:11 The Cape fits right on tip top. Nov 14 03:53:39 heh I already have a 3d model I can abuse I suppose then. Nov 14 03:53:46 What? Nov 14 03:53:48 Seriously? Nov 14 03:54:05 GenTooMan: Seven minutes! Nov 14 03:54:05 I've designed 2 cape boards. Nov 14 03:54:17 Oh yea. I forgot. Nov 14 03:54:25 You showed me. How did that trace ever work out? Nov 14 03:54:37 Or...is it still giving you issues? Nov 14 03:55:03 We only have six minutes. Nov 14 03:55:46 Until another time, I guess. Nov 14 04:01:17 ciao Nov 14 04:26:43 Once last thing. I got 'em. M3 machine screws. Do you believe it. Hushing now. Nov 14 05:27:28 set_ here are the views from CAD with comments https://embeddedemulation.blogspot.com/2020/11/for-someone-set-up.html so you want to control the air flow through the boards. Nov 14 05:28:04 Okay. Please hold. Nov 14 05:28:30 night Nov 14 05:29:39 Later! Nov 14 13:29:24 wake Nov 14 15:37:59 GenTooMan: Hello. Nov 14 16:29:57 Greetings and salutations. Thinking as yet about flowing air? Nov 14 23:16:08 Sort of...I say a funnel w/ a slide. Nov 14 23:16:48 Well, you know how those whirly birds act. Well, I was thinking I could inject cool air in through that method. Nov 14 23:17:16 But. Outside of that idea, I got nothing. I need to wait and think, research, and talk w/ this fellow more about the air situation. Nov 14 23:30:50 GenTooMan: I was fretting I would not be able to find the m3 screws for the already attached heatsink on the AI. Nov 14 23:30:53 I had them all along. Nov 14 23:30:56 Odd? Nov 14 23:31:20 I was bestowed w/ a memory of when I purchased them w/out warrant for any use. Hmm. Nov 14 23:31:40 ANyway, I got a bunch of them. Neat! Nov 14 23:31:54 Time to bend them and shape 'em too. Nov 14 23:32:22 from '15. Nov 14 23:33:16 I did not get an mtr for the material but stainless is not too plyable. Nov 14 23:54:46 Hey GenTooMan: FLIR would be neat for viewing the board heat dissipation. Do you have one, i.e. a visual of the heat from the AI? Nov 14 23:55:16 I found flir.com but their stuff is mega, super neat. And yes. I just typed that out. Nov 15 00:25:55 Does the flir adapter for the BBB/BBG still work? Nov 15 00:26:11 Thermal camera's are long to medium wave infra-red sensors. You can get one for your cell phone also from FLIR. Nov 15 00:26:32 Right. Nov 15 00:26:38 But, they have them for the BBB too. Nov 15 00:26:51 I found one listed on the eewiki. Nov 15 00:27:17 I found it neat. I can FLIR the ai w/ the ai. Nov 15 00:29:16 GenTooMan: here is the link >>> https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/flir-lepton/250-0587-00/5266963 Nov 15 00:29:22 Do you see a price? Nov 15 00:29:31 it is the v1.4. Nov 15 00:29:45 Dang it. My computer is busted again. reboot! Nov 15 00:40:46 Sorry. Nov 15 00:49:05 EOL. Dang. Nov 15 00:49:43 EOL but eewiki still has a function for it. What should I do? Nov 15 00:57:13 I contacted the boss over at the place. Hopefully, he/she has some nice info. for FLIR Lepton. Nov 15 00:57:18 I cannot wait! Nov 15 01:16:35 I found one...dang. This FLIR business must be booming right now. They are still high priced. Nov 15 01:24:53 set_ in words of one syllable NO Nov 15 01:25:04 It is not? Nov 15 01:25:05 set_ the device is very difficult to make Nov 15 01:25:09 Oh. Nov 15 01:25:11 Okay. Nov 15 01:25:30 it's also not a high demand product Nov 15 01:26:13 Oh. Okay. I was unaware. You, or at least I would, would think people need to find leaks and heat transfer. Nov 15 01:26:39 Friction is a son of mother. Nov 15 01:27:40 set_ right but your local car repair place won't need one. They probably sell about 10k units per year of the cheaper kind, and 100-200 of the expensive variety. Nov 15 01:27:40 Anyway GenTooMan, I guess there is another worldly view outside of me. Nov 15 01:28:18 Right. I saw one that handles a vast plethora of views, instances, and ai ideas. Nov 15 01:28:53 It seems it can point out specific heat viewing from cars to people and return output on such an instance. Nov 15 01:29:29 Like... Nov 15 01:30:00 I want my output on video to be a green rectangle on people and orange triangle on vehicles. Nov 15 01:30:19 The difference in what the FLIR can view allows for this tech. to take place. Nov 15 01:31:30 I saw one from a co. that is only $99.00 w/ a STM chip on it, i.e. 32-bit. Nov 15 01:32:23 I can use it by usb or i2c. Then, they had some over $15000.00. No. First off...no. I am not now or will ever need that type of vice. Nov 15 01:34:26 But...the idea of triangle and rectangle on video output probably will not be available in specific frames with a $99.00 FLIR adapter. It is still a neat bunch of ideas. Nov 15 01:34:56 Ha. I came across one that cost as much as a house. Nov 15 01:35:24 Anyway. I am hogging again. I will break. Nov 15 02:38:41 I finally saw quadrature encoders and now I can pursue it. Neat-O. Nov 15 02:39:33 The things are for 5v efforts. I think I should do something about the encoder situation now. More posts! Nov 15 02:40:38 I always turned away from them. I think it may be nifty and exploritory. I am on it! **** ENDING LOGGING AT Sun Nov 15 02:59:56 2020