**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Jan 27 02:59:57 2021 Jan 27 14:13:59 Hey all, what's a good way to have multiple shell windows open? I know of screen, but is there a more comfortable option? Jan 27 19:17:43 Would someone be able to explain this line: mmc3: mmc@0 { Jan 27 19:17:45 oops Jan 27 19:17:50 https://github.com/beagleboard/linux/blob/219d54332a09e8d8741c1e1982f5eae56099de85/arch/arm/boot/dts/am33xx.dtsi#L258 Jan 27 19:18:14 does this imply that mmc2 is being used in the system core for some reason or another? Jan 27 19:20:29 no, that's the declaration of the _existence_ of mmc2 Jan 27 19:21:11 it's the node &mmc3 (fucking off-by-one-numbering *sigh*) refers to Jan 27 19:21:43 in general it's the job of am33xx.dtsi to declare all components of the SoC Jan 27 19:24:16 a better question is, why isn't it declared with status="disabled"; in whatever kernel release this is Jan 27 19:24:32 like it is in 4.19-ti: https://github.com/beagleboard/linux/blob/4.19/arch/arm/boot/dts/am33xx.dtsi#L610 Jan 27 19:32:33 hmm same file doesn't seem to declare the other mmc nodes Jan 27 19:33:58 what kernel is this? Jan 27 19:35:30 the other mmc nodes are on L4 interconnects, which this kernel split off to a separate file #included at the bottom of am33xx.dtsi Jan 27 19:40:15 I get the feeling the am33xx dt is needlessly convoluted Jan 27 19:40:34 does anything really care about the physical interconnect hierarchy? Jan 27 19:40:42 the kernel does Jan 27 19:40:59 5.4 Jan 27 19:41:13 all versions, in 4.x it's in tables hardcoded in the kernel Jan 27 19:41:45 but there's been an ongoing effort to move that from being compiled into the kernel to DT Jan 27 19:41:53 which is why the DT got more complicated Jan 27 19:42:23 I shall never understand the whims of dt vs code decisions Jan 27 19:42:33 they did the exact opposite with all the clocks a while back Jan 27 19:42:47 I agree that this does belong in DT Jan 27 19:42:53 did they? Jan 27 19:42:59 that sounds odd if true Jan 27 19:43:02 clocks used to be nicely described in dt Jan 27 19:43:13 now it's all compiled tables Jan 27 19:43:18 and you have to guess the magic number Jan 27 19:43:49 what are you talking about? that doesn't sound like any kernel version I know of Jan 27 19:44:01 a few years ago Jan 27 19:44:28 like, clocks are mostly in DT in every kernel version I'm familiar with Jan 27 19:44:54 now there's just a foo-clocks node Jan 27 19:45:04 the driver supplies all knowledge of actual topology Jan 27 19:45:14 and exports the various clocks by index Jan 27 19:45:17 can you give me an example of what you're tlaking about? Jan 27 19:46:35 like, the clocks themselves are declared in am33xx-clocks.dtsi and are generally referred to by phandle (although in 4.x there's also still a bunch of tables, which presumably have gone, or are going, away in 5.x) Jan 27 19:47:28 oh, looks like they didn't get to the TI chips yet Jan 27 19:48:55 can you please point to something that you're talking about? some before/after example DT (any platform) or preferably a commit that embodies the change you're referring to Jan 27 19:49:09 be patient Jan 27 19:49:13 fair Jan 27 19:50:46 here's one: https://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/torvalds/linux.git/commit/?id=f18698e1c66338b902de386e4ad97b8b1b9d999d Jan 27 19:56:26 okay, so I see less magic numbers (before <&ahb_gates 36> after <&ccu CLK_AHB_LCD0> ) and they seem to be replacing a collection of separate clock drivers for components of the CCU for one CCU driver... I can't really comment on that since I don't know anything about Allwinner devices or their CCU Jan 27 20:00:11 but yeah I see what you mean, the CCU seems to embed all info inside the driver Jan 27 20:00:31 that way it's a lot more work adding a new device Jan 27 20:00:53 presumably there's a motivation for it Jan 27 20:02:20 presumably, I just don't understand it Jan 27 20:10:17 trying to dig for the motivation... I've found this post which at least raises the objection you have but actually proposes a firmware-based approach: http://lists.infradead.org/pipermail/linux-arm-kernel/2016-July/446269.html Jan 27 20:10:56 maybe if you dig up the first commit that created drivers/clk/sunxi-ng you might find the answer Jan 27 20:12:38 regardless, I think these design choices are done by the maintainers for the different SoC families, which is why you don't necessarily see consistency in how things are approached Jan 27 20:13:46 my guess is they felt the CCU was too complicated to be adequately represented by a colletion of separate devices Jan 27 20:13:56 but it is just a guess Jan 27 20:45:44 hmmm perhaps mmc3 being on a different bus needs the dmas to be declared for it Jan 27 20:45:58 ? Jan 27 20:46:28 https://github.com/beagleboard/bb.org-overlays/blob/1b5a2241bff95111dd02dece1d7b13f603a708f5/src/arm/BB-BBGG-WL1835-00A0.dts#L102 Jan 27 20:46:38 the declaration of the node itself (including things like dmas and irqs) does not depend on which bus it's on Jan 27 20:47:20 that has nothing to do with which bus it's on... the dmas are just missing in the main DT Jan 27 20:47:45 probably because they're on the crossbar Jan 27 20:49:15 Bah, still can't get any mmc2 clock activity to detect the wl1837 Jan 27 20:52:20 I don't think I've had much trouble getting wl183x to work Jan 27 20:53:53 haha, i got the bt working, but no luck yet with wifi.. Jan 27 20:54:09 might be my sdio lines/ moving to mmc3 Jan 27 20:54:45 mmc2 you mean... the label name is just a historical mistake kept for backwards compatibility Jan 27 20:54:55 yup yup Jan 27 20:55:18 I did not find a secret peripheral though that would be cool Jan 27 20:55:30 I have, but they don't work ;P Jan 27 20:55:41 haha Jan 27 20:56:12 as long as there's no self-destruct peripheral Jan 27 20:56:36 seriously, am335x has phantom peripherals... they have clock control registers, a socket on the L3 interconnect, a route in the global memory map... but the peripheral itself ain't there Jan 27 20:56:44 like a pcie controller Jan 27 20:56:56 woa, interesting. Jan 27 20:57:25 am335x is a mess in general, it looks like it was done in a hurry, or by an intern or something :P Jan 27 20:58:13 wooot! clock is wiggling! Jan 27 20:58:23 wiggle wiggle Jan 27 20:59:02 I think the dma's did it. Jan 27 20:59:12 that's weird, those shouldn't be required Jan 27 21:00:40 now I'm wondering if it's the long acupuncture needles I'm using to probe that is interfering with recognition. Jan 27 21:01:48 yup, dma's necessary Jan 27 21:01:55 just verified Jan 27 21:01:58 interesting Jan 27 21:02:12 I mean, regardless of whether they're required you'll want to have them anyway :P Jan 27 21:02:21 specifically these: https://github.com/beagleboard/bb.org-overlays/blob/1b5a2241bff95111dd02dece1d7b13f603a708f5/src/arm/BB-BBGG-WL1835-00A0.dts#L102 Jan 27 21:02:48 yea, I assume the other ones already have them declared. Jan 27 21:02:55 they do Jan 27 21:04:14 so, the thing is that there are more dma events (74) than edma channels (64), which is why there's a crossbar Jan 27 21:05:28 Psssshew.... that went over my head Jan 27 21:07:08 and there are complications that prevent crossbar mappings from just being setup dynamically at runtime, which is why DT needs to make the decision on which edma channel to use Jan 27 21:07:51 still, I'm pretty sure they could have done this in am33xx.dtsi since in practice I don't think linux can use all of the 74 dma events anyway Jan 27 21:10:44 but that's what this particular dmas declaration does: it's saying the mmc2 transmit dma uses edma channel 12 muxed to crossbar source 1, and receive dma uses edma channel 13 muxed to crossbar source 2 Jan 27 21:10:58 edma channels 12 and 13 have no primary use Jan 27 21:16:06 Konsgn: the short summary is, if you're going to add dmas to your DT you have the responsibility to ensure there's no conflict in usage of edma channels... in practice it's unlikely you'll ever want to add any other dmas to your DT, but still Jan 27 21:17:10 cool cool, thank you for the explanation Jan 27 21:17:11 ! Jan 27 21:17:34 you can find what's what on the EDMA and EDMA(mux) tabs here: https://goo.gl/7YooOO#gid=1709162027 Jan 27 21:19:03 each of the 64 channels has a primary source, which would be declared as <&edma CH 0> (where CH is the channel number), or it can be muxed to any of the sources in the (mux) list, which would be declared as <&edma_xbar CH 0 MUX> Jan 27 21:29:54 does 10MHz make sense as a default speed for communication? Jan 27 21:30:20 there's no "default speed", look up what the chip you're communicating with specifies Jan 27 21:31:01 alright, thank you! **** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Jan 27 21:48:20 2021 Jan 27 22:02:35 hmm, what changed between 5.8 and 5.9 that makes almost every driver probe return EPROBE_DEFER? Jan 27 22:02:50 on sancloud bbe Jan 27 22:03:07 probably missing some new config option or dt tweak Jan 27 22:05:07 sounds like a critical driver is being loaded late.. maybe something compiled as module that ought to be built-in ? Jan 27 22:06:01 I just did an oldconfig Jan 27 22:06:22 5.8 works, 5.9 is obviously missing something critical Jan 27 22:07:26 first failure: gpiochip_add_data_with_key: GPIOs 0..31 (gpio-0-31) failed to register, -517 Jan 27 23:04:24 hm... wonder is somethings changed in the loading order for some reason thats triggering the defer on initial probe Jan 27 23:06:57 i am playing on 5.10 but heard from a few others that they had to mess with loading order on some things to get things to load the way they wanted Jan 27 23:08:42 and they aren't playing with ti's chips but my understanding was the defer had to do with resources not being available or ready at the probe time and they were able to solve it by messing with the loading order Jan 27 23:09:10 not sure how pertinent it is to your issue tho Jan 27 23:39:47 The Maker Faire is on! Jan 27 23:40:23 I can see it now. Skinny, Pocket-Sized Linux SBCs as far as the eye can see! Jan 27 23:40:47 maker faire, in this time of covid? Jan 27 23:40:56 Yes and yes but in April. Jan 27 23:41:18 that still seems optimistic Jan 27 23:41:31 You are right. Jan 27 23:41:58 It will be outdoors, in small groups, and/or as a learning set of sessions. Jan 27 23:43:01 I am not sure what to do as of now...except for a 1/10th to 1/8th sized bot (or a bunch of bots) that do things. Jan 27 23:43:37 I have an idea for another one. The premise is the same but linear actuators are used to control the up and down motion of the actuators. Jan 27 23:44:07 So, instead of chains or belts, this one is just an extension pole that comes out and retracts. Jan 27 23:44:37 "Back up children! This bot has gone rotten!" Jan 27 23:45:25 I am up and running w/ video. So, I will attempt to take photos and video of the bot making its moves in real time. Jan 27 23:45:47 Now, onto cutting metal. boo! Jan 27 23:55:53 I am super excited. Though there are COVID restrictions, I think that people will be smart to keep their distance. I do not think this will be full on bore. It will just be small rendezous of sorts instead of stalk piling people in small quarters. Jan 27 23:56:40 oops. stock piling and not stalk piling...he. Jan 27 23:57:05 GenTooMan: Did you hear that? Jan 27 23:57:38 I guess only a few people that did not speak up took the bad food and digested it, i.e. me included. Jan 27 23:57:56 I said nothing. I should have spoke up but who would I tell? Jan 28 00:02:04 * GenTooMan merely practices his confused look. Jan 28 00:02:22 So you are going to go out and maker something Jan 28 00:05:18 yes! Jan 28 00:06:10 I have a BBBW on a platform, right. So, I am going to add this "linear" actuators w/ extension poles that go outward and inward. Jan 28 00:07:05 So, these poles that go inward and outward in their slots will dictate what the bot does and when. Jan 28 00:08:01 So, if I want a slow mover w/out dancing, which would be little front and more back leg movement, the program will dictate that idea. Jan 28 00:08:26 I think of star wars and that bad bot on the darkside. Jan 28 00:08:42 does the linear actuator have position feedback? Jan 28 00:08:47 It was tall and had skinny legs w/ a body. Jan 28 00:08:51 No! Jan 28 00:09:02 No feedback control, sadly. Jan 28 00:09:23 So, someone will need to be at the helm constantly. Jan 28 00:09:31 that would make it difficult to control is speed. You are limited to using the voltage on the motor for that. Jan 28 00:10:08 Right. But, I am thinking of it more of an obstacle to control than a unlimited range. Jan 28 00:10:23 For instance, speed is out. Jan 28 00:10:36 There are four of them. They all move at the same speed. Jan 28 00:11:18 But, I can add the source to promote duty_cycle and so on. Jan 28 00:12:07 brb Jan 28 00:12:36 perhaps some advice then, it may be a good idea to consider position feedback and use a servo type control for the actuators. That can I guess be done with even stepper motors. Jan 28 00:19:53 I have some but the Capes, since I have not made one, will not allow for four stepper motors. Jan 28 00:22:04 Well, there is the replicape. Jan 28 00:22:05 * GenTooMan cringes because he felt like it (really he did). "right well mind if I interject some sane thoughts then?" Jan 28 00:22:28 It can handle four steppers but it is for another type of works. Jan 28 00:22:35 It's always good to define a goal. Jan 28 00:22:39 :D Jan 28 00:22:48 Yes. Definition...like my labs! Jan 28 00:23:49 are the linear actuators DC motors are steppers? Jan 28 00:23:53 DC. Jan 28 00:24:18 They just have some gears in the dc motors in a housing. Jan 28 00:24:58 right so that makes position feedback a bit challenging huh? (define the conditions) Jan 28 00:25:11 I should put it together quickly to show you but mechanics like every other subject, means more reading and time consumption. So, not right now. Jan 28 00:25:12 Yea. Jan 28 00:25:22 You are right. I am not upset about feedback control. Jan 28 00:25:53 I will be at the helm to show the bot off. So, control of the bot will only have so many moves it can make while it is being shown. Jan 28 00:26:20 But. w/ angles, I may be able to show off a bit more. Jan 28 00:26:33 well that does create an issue, one likes to know the limits the actuator can move but without position feedback that's kind of ... hmm. Jan 28 00:27:09 if you use your eyes you are actually using you as the position feedback device (FYI) Jan 28 00:27:34 For instance, if I angle the linear/dc actuators w/ a servo control at each actuator, bam. More movement. Ha about me being p f d. Jan 28 00:27:58 I am the position feedback device. Ha. Jan 28 00:28:01 I know. Jan 28 00:28:19 But still...I can preprogram it to make only specific dances. Jan 28 00:28:40 Like, wait for time, when time is up, preform this task and etc. Jan 28 00:28:56 I am sorry but this is all my money can buy for now. Jan 28 00:29:07 Gosh. Jan 28 00:29:35 So...let me show you a bit of the issues. B/c there is control, sort of. Jan 28 00:29:37 well that only works if your power supply has reasonable voltage regulation. You will end up with slippage in the end after repeated movements. IE wandering. Jan 28 00:29:48 Right. Jan 28 00:29:50 * GenTooMan takes control and hides it. Jan 28 00:29:55 Okay. You are right. Jan 28 00:30:01 wanderBot! Jan 28 00:30:17 I could put a wheel on it, i.e. just in case. Jan 28 00:30:20 Ha. Jan 28 00:30:40 Hey GenTooMan: Do you think using the Replicape for this method of usage will work w/ steppers? Jan 28 00:31:11 I guess I would just need to make it work. I am two or about three months out until the fair. Jan 28 00:32:35 I suggest getting what you want to do in some readable form might be a good step. IE move flag up and down to the rhythm of Bach’s minitocatta in D minor as an example. Jan 28 00:34:35 No. Jan 28 00:34:37 no. Jan 28 00:34:43 I am not that smart yet or ever. Jan 28 00:35:25 Now, I will show you the video one day, later today if you are available, so you can review the issues w/ this motor movement. Jan 28 00:35:45 At least it beeps and shows off an LED when the furthest extent has been made. It automatically stops. Jan 28 00:36:01 Then, one would just need to alter the steps. Jan 28 00:36:14 you mean timing? Jan 28 00:36:32 No. I meant the steps being taken in w/ the control. Jan 28 00:36:46 * GenTooMan ohs. Jan 28 00:37:14 * set_ enjoys making things work w/ what little one has...yes? Jan 28 00:37:53 Sure until you find you need just a bit more... :D Jan 28 00:41:37 being able to make use of what you have is good. It also is good to determine what you need. Sometimes they are one in the same goal. Jan 28 00:44:04 Okay. Jan 28 00:44:34 I got my set up. I will post a video soon of it all. IT is just a 12v, this linear actuator, the MotorCape, and the BBBW. Jan 28 00:44:40 But...it is a beauty in motion. Jan 28 00:45:35 * GenTooMan just grins. Jan 28 00:48:09 I know. Ha, ha. Jan 28 00:48:14 Just you wait. Jan 28 00:48:37 Now, this is just one linear motor w/ extension pole. Jan 28 00:49:12 So, I will just show what happens when I do this/that, the furthest extension issue w/ LED/Noise, and so on. Jan 28 00:51:09 as long as it doesn't make biological sounds like those idiot Android app makers did the first time they found out how to make an Android program that is preferred. Jan 28 00:55:39 Okay. Jan 28 00:56:20 So, the furthest extent sound is a beep, the video is done w/ some terrible music (that I like), and some motion of the actuator pole. Jan 28 00:56:55 I am uploading now. This may take a super long time. Hence, my start today at 6:25 or whenever. Jan 28 00:57:16 an animated pole is probably better than 98% of all android apps :D Jan 28 00:57:25 I think some music from Richmond, VA was playing in the background. Jan 28 00:57:26 Ha. Jan 28 00:57:44 I thought you were in Louisiana? Jan 28 00:57:51 Yes. This pole movement is better. Jan 28 00:57:52 I am . Jan 28 00:57:55 I am in LA. Jan 28 00:58:11 I used to live there in the VA area and picked up on some music trends. Jan 28 00:58:21 I am cool, daddy-o. Jan 28 00:58:24 Oh gotcha. Jan 28 00:59:07 So, what do you think is faster, Youtube or imgur? Jan 28 00:59:13 for uploading? Jan 28 01:00:08 Now...my speeds on the ole Internets equals slow. I save $5.00 a month now to not be upgraded. Ha. Jan 28 01:00:15 youtube has greater bandwidth. Jan 28 01:00:19 Okay. Jan 28 01:00:33 1/4 way done. Bear w/ me now. Jan 28 01:00:44 they have there own network of what is called dark fibre. Jan 28 01:01:03 I even talk in my oh-so-subtle way in the vid. Jan 28 01:01:05 Nasty. Jan 28 01:01:10 dark fibre? Jan 28 01:01:44 basically optic fibre is laid between cities for phone and internet. most of which is unused. So people lease the unused fibre to run there own network. This is called dark fibre. Jan 28 01:01:55 Oh. Jan 28 01:02:02 Nice. Jan 28 01:02:19 Dark fibre! Double nice. Jan 28 01:02:37 Google makes use if this so they can control there own network and offer ISP in their own network. Jan 28 01:02:48 Oh. Jan 28 01:03:13 I understand. Places where city traffic is not all smashed up next to each other, I would presume. Jan 28 01:04:24 GenTooMan: brb. I need a break from having fun. I should calm down for a bit and then relocate back here. Jan 28 01:04:30 Please hold for the vid. Jan 28 01:13:49 You can see how slow I talk in the vid. Nothing exciting but it is! Jan 28 01:14:24 https://drive.google.com/file/d/1k_HizePNuglw2qYeb2ImXAreF6fv7VBS/view?usp=sharing <<< oh and the beep from the furthest extent cannot be heard due to the music noise and dryer. Oops. Jan 28 01:14:59 ... Jan 28 01:15:09 GenTooMan: Can you see the motor in question now? Jan 28 01:15:14 and how it works? Jan 28 01:16:30 Anyway, I was thinking of making some dancing, four-legged bot w/ the motors. Jan 28 01:16:41 right doing laundry while testing motors is a national past time I forgot about. Jan 28 01:16:50 Ha. It is, it is. Jan 28 01:17:35 But...you get the idea. It moves in and out. Jan 28 01:18:05 So, w/ that in mind, I have used some older source from when @zmatt showed me some ideas and I am going to expand on it. Jan 28 01:18:42 So that...the motors can dance in coordination and not by command each time. Jan 28 01:18:58 So, one command creates a dance and another command creates a separate dance. Jan 28 01:19:21 Doo, la, la, la. Do, la, doo, la. Jan 28 01:19:23 Like that! Jan 28 01:20:08 Now, why am I doing this and why should i care if I do it for life? Who knows? But, I can tell you one thing. Jan 28 01:20:34 It is exciting and gives me a multitude of ideas to conquer. Jan 28 01:21:21 It is like calculus but you can actually use calculus to conquer the multitudes of bot movements. Exciting! Jan 28 01:22:18 the beep sound may indicate the motor has reached it's peak current IE it stalled. Jan 28 01:22:27 No. Jan 28 01:22:36 The beep means it reached its furthest extent. Jan 28 01:22:46 No more backwards and no more forwards. Jan 28 01:23:06 So, 12" out and 0" in. Jan 28 01:23:14 12" stroke. Jan 28 01:23:38 and it knows this by having end stops? Jan 28 01:23:43 It beeps on both ends and I think there is an LED somewhere. Jan 28 01:23:45 I have no clue. Jan 28 01:24:05 The paperwork on this motor was dated... Jan 28 01:24:15 Dated means it just was not relevant. Jan 28 01:24:22 The company does not have them any longer. Jan 28 01:24:23 well hmm the motor controller is doing the beeping correct? Jan 28 01:24:32 No. The motor. Jan 28 01:24:43 I mean. Jan 28 01:24:52 I know there is extra circuitry in the motor housing. Jan 28 01:24:58 I just do not know exactly what it does. Jan 28 01:25:41 Maybe just gets a hit, button, like you said, and then stops. Jan 28 01:25:43 maybe it would be good to find out where the sound is coming from, obviously you aren't making it LOL Jan 28 01:25:50 Ha. Jan 28 01:25:51 Yea. Jan 28 01:26:01 It is not me. I am pretty sure. Jan 28 01:26:10 But... Jan 28 01:26:19 it is from the motor. Jan 28 01:26:30 well I ask because it would be good to know when the unit hits the end limits. If you can check it from the controller or something all the better. Jan 28 01:26:31 It does that on its furthest and nearest extent. Jan 28 01:26:42 Right. Jan 28 01:26:49 But...that is not possible. Jan 28 01:26:59 why isn't it? Jan 28 01:27:12 Everything is internal...I am not about to ruin my fancy motor to check out a beep. Jan 28 01:27:58 I mean. I could, It is two screws. Jan 28 01:28:34 I just do not know if things are triggered to bounce out if the housing is taken apart. Jan 28 01:28:49 That is why I need the mechanical. Jan 28 01:28:52 Ok so no taking apart the neighbours Volvo to find out why it makes that weird sound when they shut the car door. Well my thoughts were if you could find out if it had limit switches to stop the direction of movement that would be handy to have a way to sense. Jan 28 01:29:56 Oh. Jan 28 01:29:58 right. Jan 28 01:30:09 There has to be a switch in there. Jan 28 01:30:23 How else would it know if it needs to beep? Jan 28 01:30:24 Or some sensor to say "yo we hit the end" Jan 28 01:30:29 Right. Jan 28 01:30:43 What type of sensor can you think of might be this exact sensor? Jan 28 01:30:56 not to distract you with things but that would be useful for your programming no? Jan 28 01:31:10 Right. Jan 28 01:31:21 hmm does the motor have it's own controller? Jan 28 01:31:25 No. Jan 28 01:31:27 IE built in controller? Jan 28 01:31:28 Wires. Jan 28 01:31:35 so you have to power it with a pair of wires? Jan 28 01:31:42 Only accessible by wires... Jan 28 01:31:45 Right. Jan 28 01:31:55 so only 2 wires correct? Jan 28 01:31:58 Right. Jan 28 01:32:19 I will take one apart and show you. Wait for glory. Jan 28 01:32:52 well do so in an intellegent way. IE document and carefully check each step. Jan 28 01:33:15 Okay. There are six screws. I thought there were only two. We shall see! Jan 28 01:33:33 Time for some internal fixturing. Jan 28 01:34:17 I suggest carefully removing only a few screws at a time and seeing what moves afterward. Some screws aren't meant to hold a plate on and do something else. Jan 28 01:34:53 Okay. Jan 28 01:35:12 fore warned is fore armed as some would say. Jan 28 01:38:48 Okay. So, there is a circuit. Jan 28 01:38:59 I am going to pull the motor and circuit out. Jan 28 01:39:12 I will show you in a photo in case you want to view it... Jan 28 01:39:35 just be sure not to break anything, I know that might be asking a lot. Jan 28 01:40:13 This is getting to the nitty, gritty. Jan 28 01:40:54 also no stabbing your fingers and poking your eyes is right out... Jan 28 01:44:13 Right-o. Jan 28 01:44:19 Okay. Here comes the photos. Jan 28 01:45:22 https://drive.google.com/file/d/1kqaeUAQIC9P_FjnkxuHKSTV0qp7RrB20/view?usp=sharing is one. Jan 28 01:45:51 https://drive.google.com/file/d/1keE3iCC8xiUAk2lqzEVjb9FuZee2ShE3/view?usp=sharing is another one. Jan 28 01:46:05 lots of grease. Sheesh. Jan 28 01:46:27 remember that's not for your hair... the grease I meant. :D Jan 28 01:46:33 brb Jan 28 01:46:39 Okay. Jan 28 01:46:40 Okay. Jan 28 01:46:48 brb...time for ______. Jan 28 01:50:17 so it looks like it has electronics in it to some degree. Jan 28 01:50:40 Yep. Jan 28 01:50:54 I think the buzzer is glued down. Jan 28 01:51:02 well, has glue on it. Jan 28 01:51:09 is it attached to the board via wires then? Jan 28 01:51:23 or connected I should say. Jan 28 01:51:35 yes. Jan 28 01:51:44 attached/connected. Yes. Jan 28 01:52:48 I think it is just some sinks, resistors, and a buzzer. Jan 28 01:54:15 it has 2 diodes and at least 3 transistors Q1-Q3 Jan 28 01:54:42 Okay. Jan 28 01:54:52 So, q is transistor. Jan 28 01:55:20 I figured after saying sinks that d stood for diode. Jan 28 01:55:57 so likely it has a full bridge (4 diodes) the transistors have a 1K 10k and 4.3k resistor attached to them. Jan 28 01:56:11 Hmm. Jan 28 01:57:01 Let me take the full thing apart so you can see better or is that necessary? Jan 28 01:57:33 Well actually it would be best to have a good shot of the full PCB top and bottom side. Jan 28 01:57:50 Okay. Please hold. Jan 28 01:57:57 I will get the two photos. Jan 28 01:58:03 just be careful not to break things :D Jan 28 02:00:42 It is okay. The entire thing is already exposed. Jan 28 02:01:00 I am just not rewinding the windings. Jan 28 02:01:58 https://drive.google.com/file/d/1krMT0fD3dQM6m1ckFh0GjwghToHvQq2z/view?usp=sharing and... Jan 28 02:02:27 https://drive.google.com/file/d/1kx7F6iFjjZONAAmVCXUvlDFsY5BFmbHp/view?usp=sharing is all I could get from the glue. Jan 28 02:02:35 The glue is in the way. Jan 28 02:04:05 It seems like the glue is that waterproof glue that is used for outdoor circuitry. Jan 28 02:04:13 Annoying. Jan 28 02:06:53 yeah... sometimes they use adhesives as sealant which can be frustrating. Jan 28 02:07:08 It looks possible for you to reverse engineer the design. Jan 28 02:07:30 or at least generate a schematic, do the transistors have readable markings? Jan 28 02:10:06 Let me see. Jan 28 02:10:18 hopefully you see something I didn't Jan 28 02:11:47 No. They are three pin though. Jan 28 02:13:14 SOT-23 packages of which their are at least a few thousand variants. Jan 28 02:13:20 I cannot tell what is what except for the C1-C4, Q1-Q4, R1-R5, and two Diodes, plus the glued part. Which I am guessing is the buzzer. Jan 28 02:13:36 Yikes. Jan 28 02:14:10 probably all those caps are to give the circuit some stability when power is applied and power the noise maker I mean buzzer. Jan 28 02:14:28 Noise! Jan 28 02:14:33 Bzzt, bzzt. Jan 28 02:15:03 So, if need be, I could alter it to make a fine solution. Okay. Jan 28 02:15:11 But... Jan 28 02:15:26 what if using it as is works too? Jan 28 02:16:17 I would like to know where to purchase these motors if I was to use them in the future for things. Jan 28 02:16:19 You know? Jan 28 02:16:26 Oh well. Jan 28 02:16:42 * GenTooMan thinks noisily which causes icebergs to form all over Louisiana. "short answer it works obviously the buzzer is powered which likely means it is getting power when the unit hits the end stops." Jan 28 02:16:57 Right. Ha. Jan 28 02:17:22 So, what do you proclaim I should do? Jan 28 02:17:35 you might be able to measure the voltage across the buzzer to sense when the end stops are hit. Jan 28 02:17:44 Aw! **** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Jan 28 02:20:38 2021 Jan 28 02:22:14 I would guess that the transistors only turn on when hitting an end stop so the buzzer is only powered when that happens. As for how to make use of it, that's a bit more complicated but having a signal change at the end stop point does help. Jan 28 02:22:29 SOrry. Jan 28 02:23:15 So GenTooMan: Why, um, should I understand voltage in this respect? Jan 28 02:23:50 And yes...you have to hold my hand in this idea. Jan 28 02:25:05 Ok you have a signal indicating you hit the end stop, if you can read that signal with your processor you don't need to use yourself to reverse motor direction or to know you hit the safe end of travel. Jan 28 02:25:45 you can check it pro grammatically, which is what you should desire. Jan 28 02:25:59 Okay. Jan 28 02:26:01 But... Jan 28 02:26:28 I am using the MotorCape that has a fixed set of pins used to control the L298 chips onboard. Jan 28 02:26:57 Are you saying I should bypass the cape to use extra, leftover pins w/ another chipset? Jan 28 02:32:00 actually your program wants to be autonomous so you don't have to be the controller for it. To do so it is important to know if the actuator is fully extended or fully retracted. This allows you to do more robot things without you being the only thing controlling it. Jan 28 02:33:02 Okay. Jan 28 02:33:06 Right but... Jan 28 02:34:16 I can automate it by typing some source. I mean, I can set up a loop here and a loop there. That, the loop, can automate a single "dance" of the bot. Jan 28 02:34:59 I am just not sure. Nope. I am sure. I do not understand. WE can stop now if you would like. I am sure you have other things to do outside of reiterating yourself to me. Jan 28 02:35:00 I am sorry. Jan 28 02:35:13 hmm well you can set a timing loop and have it stop then reverse it wait then repeat the cycle. Non ideal however. Jan 28 02:35:32 Okay. Jan 28 02:35:34 Right. Jan 28 02:35:39 I could... Jan 28 02:35:59 Why is a repitition of a cycle/loop not ideal? Jan 28 02:36:20 I know people say, "Try to not be repititious." Jan 28 02:36:32 timing loops stink they tend to cause you trouble later on. Jan 28 02:36:40 This is about programming. I understand but they never say why...Oh! Jan 28 02:36:42 Okay. Jan 28 02:36:59 So, further down in the program they cause issues. Jan 28 02:37:01 OK let me give you a realistic annoying problem. Jan 28 02:37:07 Okay. Us? Jan 28 02:37:09 Ha. Jan 28 02:37:35 I am staying patient. Jan 28 02:38:42 you need to move the actuator full cycle for production. In out, it needs to be fast enough to be useful. However instead of checking when it reaches the end stop you decide to just wait 10 seconds when the motor goes one direction and then another 10 seconds for another. Let's say it takes another 10 seconds after the cycle. So now you are taking 30 seconds to do something you might be able to do in 16. Jan 28 02:39:38 the your boss asks "why is it taking so long?!" in a frustrated manner. The easy way is not always the best way. Jan 28 02:42:57 Not speed but Jan 28 02:43:03 Grace. Jan 28 02:43:18 I want my bot to be graceful. Jan 28 02:43:31 Like a balarEna. Jan 28 02:43:40 and obviously it pausing for long times makes it graceful! Jan 28 02:43:44 Ha. Jan 28 02:44:01 W/ four legs, I can do a lot. Jan 28 02:44:29 I just do not want to tip over. This is a learning lesson for children, adolescents, and adults. Jan 28 02:44:44 quadro ped is probably one of the most complicated. Hex-a-pods are one of the least. Jan 28 02:45:29 Like w/ bosses, peers, and laymen, I want to articulate what it is I am trying to accomplish by visually giving it. Jan 28 02:45:36 So... Jan 28 02:46:50 I think there is a reason I took apart the motor. Now, I know I can replace it one day if necessary. This is good. Jan 28 02:47:12 But, this voltage level thing has me bewildered. Jan 28 02:47:20 Point me to the readings, sir! Jan 28 02:48:07 right ... it's really shockingly simple. how do you turn a electric device on? Jan 28 02:48:36 I should not make my quadraped be like a teepee. Jan 28 02:49:00 Okay. It has too many accessible points in its movement when it can fall over. Jan 28 02:49:28 That is all I want to teach people that do not already understand. Jan 28 02:50:25 I will make a case, a housing, or whatever that can take the fall. Jan 28 02:50:39 Predictable or controlled falls are fun. Jan 28 02:51:34 But to not fall is key. Right? Jan 28 02:53:05 It is like this, really. Things can go up, but like NASA, things seemingly come down too. One would have to make way for when things go awkward or incorrect. Controlled falls are a great resource for learning. Jan 28 02:53:05 are you familiar with a tri pod? Jan 28 02:53:10 Yes sir. Jan 28 02:53:43 , but like with NASA knowing, Jan 28 02:53:44 SOrry. Jan 28 02:54:32 a tripod is a stable configuration however 2 legs are not, a quadro ped has several modes of locomotion and few are stable. Jan 28 02:54:55 that's why it's harder for a horse to move than it is for you. Jan 28 02:55:05 Hmm. Nice. I should look up quardo ped. Jan 28 02:55:30 quadruped perhaps? hmm Jan 28 02:55:49 Oh. Yea. Quadruped! Jan 28 02:56:07 I will learn more as time persists in stead of learning by doing. Jan 28 02:56:55 so bipedal locomotion is actually somewhat simpler than the afore mentioned configuration. The reason isn't obvious but bipedal is only complicated when standing still. Jan 28 02:57:19 So, what are these specific instances when a quadruped cannot stay balanced? Jan 28 02:57:46 When things all go inward while in motion? Jan 28 02:58:18 only when it's not moving does it stay balanced. Probably why many can sleep on their feet. **** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu Jan 28 03:00:03 2021