**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Dec 23 02:59:56 2021 Dec 23 12:00:14 hello Dec 23 12:00:39 what is the difference between uImage, zImage and Image? Dec 23 12:01:19 with regards to the final compiled linux kernel image Dec 23 12:02:40 is google down? :P Dec 23 12:03:08 no, lol, but I wanted to ask here Dec 23 12:03:11 idk why Dec 23 12:03:19 anyway, zImage is what you normally use Dec 23 12:03:37 it's the compressed kernel as self-extracting executable Dec 23 12:04:06 uImage is some uboot-specific thing that I think is legacy, I've only ever used zImage with u-boot Dec 23 12:04:51 last time I compiled I used Image Dec 23 12:05:01 instead of zImage Dec 23 12:05:21 Image is normally never used, it's an intermediate build product Dec 23 12:05:50 (from which the zImage is produced) Dec 23 12:05:58 ooh Dec 23 12:06:08 I will try zImage then Dec 23 12:06:35 btw, how is the extraction done? is there program running for that? Dec 23 12:06:50 like I said, it's a self-extracting executable Dec 23 12:07:12 like an egg? Dec 23 12:07:12 so the bootloader doesn't know or care it's a compressed kernel, it just executes it Dec 23 12:07:27 oh Dec 23 12:08:21 every linux distro I know of uses zImage, typically installed as /boot/vmlinuz-VERSION Dec 23 12:10:36 does it has anything to do with xz? Dec 23 12:11:14 the compression used is selectable in the kernel config Dec 23 12:13:47 the kernel on my laptop (debian sid, kernel 5.14.0-2-amd64) uses xz, the standard beaglebone kernels use lzo... at least 4.14-ti though 5.4-ti do, it seems 5.10-ti uses xz for some reason Dec 23 12:14:42 (xz has better compression ratio, but lzo decompresses much faster) Dec 23 12:15:39 there's a performance trade-off: the slower disk i/o is compared to cpu performance, the more worthwhile it is to compress better at the expense of slower decompression Dec 23 12:16:13 since total time to load the kernel is the time to load the compressed kernel + time to decompress it Dec 23 12:19:25 rcn-ee_: was the switch from CONFIG_KERNEL_LZO=y in 5.4-ti to CONFIG_KERNEL_XZ=y in 5.10-ti a deliberate choice or an accident? Dec 23 13:58:20 i think an accident.. Dec 23 20:08:21 Any experience getting Xfce to work on BeagleBone Black? Dec 23 20:21:40 I'd assume the same as any other debian system? Dec 23 20:39:27 zmatt, It is not working for me "out of the box". I've installed Xfce many times on Debian/Ubuntu Intel boxes/VM's--no problem. I am looking for information relevant to debugging it. Dec 23 20:40:19 the only peculiarity I can think of is that you may need to force 16-bit color depth Dec 23 20:41:14 zmatt, How do I affect that? Dec 23 20:41:42 no idea, it's been aaaages since I've done anything with X11 on a bbb Dec 23 20:42:08 apparently, Xfce may no longer be X-based. Dec 23 20:42:33 (based on a limited perusal of the documentation) Dec 23 20:43:10 interesting, the bbb ships with an xorg.conf file, but the "DefaultDepth 16" line is commented out Dec 23 20:43:18 so maybe that's not needed anymore Dec 23 20:43:34 (x11 _ought_ to be able to autodetect supported pixel formats) Dec 23 20:44:50 Any pointers to documentation for starting to investigate how this Xfce system is architected and fits into the rest of Debian? Dec 23 20:45:12 I don't know anything about xfce Dec 23 20:47:02 I could start with investigating what the "systemctl set-default graphical.target" call does in Debian... Dec 23 20:47:33 the same thing it does on any other systemd-based linux system... makes default.target a symlink to graphical.target Dec 23 20:48:02 (default.target is normally either a symlink to multi-user.target or graphical.target) Dec 23 20:49:02 That part is clear. Now, what does the linux system do with this link? I figure that this might be a good starting place for understanding where the failure is. Dec 23 20:49:12 it's ... the default target Dec 23 20:49:18 the target that's started at boot Dec 23 20:49:27 i.e. it determines which services are started at boot Dec 23 20:50:46 zmatt, thanks for the feedback. I have much to learn... Dec 23 20:51:28 see https://www.freedesktop.org/software/systemd/man/systemd.special.html for descriptions of various targets and https://www.freedesktop.org/software/systemd/man/bootup.html#System%20Manager%20Bootup for an overview of startup flow Dec 23 21:01:37 dkaiser, what did you use for xorg.conf? Dec 23 21:01:47 zmatt, thanks again. Very helpful links to get started! Dec 23 21:02:14 rcn-ee: I have not done anything to create/modify xorg.conf. Dec 23 21:02:32 dkaiser, the 'modesetting' driver has been broken forever on the am335x... Dec 23 21:03:20 dkaiser, go here and scroll down to "hdmi" install the 3 apt pacakages and setup the xorg.conf: https://forum.digikey.com/t/debian-getting-started-with-the-beaglebone-black/12967 Dec 23 21:05:00 zmatt, oh the old 16bit setting that was for the omap3_beagle... trying to get any 2d performance out of it! ;) Dec 23 21:05:18 I mean, you really do want a 16-bit framebuffer on the bbb Dec 23 21:05:33 given that it only has a 16-bit output, and also it doesn't support a normal 32-bit pixel format Dec 23 21:05:50 yeah, for the hdmi.. but i think xorg figures that out correctly.. Dec 23 21:06:55 (aka from the device tree bit setting..) the xorg.conf force 16bit was more for the pre-device tree era when all we had was the omap3 beagle's.. Dec 23 21:06:56 yeah presumably it's like "XBGR8888 ? what? nope, ok then RGB565 it is" Dec 23 21:07:27 the omap also had it's own xorg 'omap' driver.. vs the fbdev/modesetting driver we use for am335x now days.. Dec 23 21:07:30 I'd presume force 16-bit was also necessary back then lcdc still claimed it supported XRGB8888 Dec 23 21:07:56 I've never used an omap-based beagleboard, I'm definitely talking about the bbb Dec 23 21:09:00 i was looking thru the xorg.conf generation code, the "DefaultDepth 16" line depended on saying it was an omap3_beagle: https://github.com/RobertCNelson/omap-image-builder/blob/master/tools/setup_sdcard.sh#L1507-L1512 Dec 23 21:10:54 maybe my memory is just wrong but I'm pretty sure 16-bit was forced *somewhere*... Dec 23 21:11:14 dkaiser, i stumbled on a nice guide for a small xfce about a week ago: https://github.com/coonrad/Debian-Xfce4-Minimal-Install Dec 23 21:11:36 when was the "blue-and-red-wiring" DT property introduced? prior to that forcing the depth to 16-bit would have been mandatory if you wanted correct colors Dec 23 21:11:38 rcn-ee: Once I get Xfce up and running (via your link to Digikey url, etc), do you expect I will run into issues getting xRDP up and running? Dec 23 21:12:44 dkaiser, xRDP? maybe... i just used that minimal xfce + novnc guide: https://www.server-world.info/en/note?os=Debian_10&p=desktop&f=7 Dec 23 21:13:16 they used tigervnc-standlone-server Dec 23 21:14:12 i did a few port forwards to get the desktop live over the interent.. (do open XCTU and configure some XBee's..) Dec 23 21:16:53 rcn-ee: I will try RDP first, and go to VNC if that fails. I have many years of (whisper voice->) Windows centric experience, including RDP to many different machines and VM's. Dec 23 21:17:38 no worries, i just like the 'novnc' experience, you just need a web browser... no local client required.. Dec 23 21:20:29 zmatt and rcn-ee: Thanks again for all of your help. Now, to get busy with study and configuration... Dec 23 21:22:59 zmatt, did you notice anything else off full in v5.10.x, i'm rolling in a ble fix for the gateway, right now along with back to lzo.. Dec 23 21:23:16 I haven't really done much with 5.x yet **** ENDING LOGGING AT Fri Dec 24 02:59:56 2021