**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Apr 14 02:59:57 2022 Apr 14 11:47:43 Okay. I am done acting like this mechanical decline in electronics are real. I am building this mower! I have been trying for years to find time and I am "ready." Apr 14 11:48:31 If that dude died or not, I think it is on me! I should do it for me and not quit b/c he deceased. Aw! New life! Apr 14 17:22:22 question Apr 14 17:23:57 if I am using the ADC on the beagle to read a pressure sensor Apr 14 17:24:12 I have been using the 3.3V on my low side level shifter Apr 14 17:24:18 will that burnout my board Apr 14 17:24:40 can I just step down from 3.3V to 1.8V with a resistor to power my low side to prevent that Apr 14 17:30:21 exposing the analog inputs to 3.3V will destroy the AM335x Apr 14 17:31:02 I'm a bit confused though... level shifter? that term generally refers to digital signals so I'm a bit puzzled what you mean here Apr 14 17:31:09 pocketbeagle has a built in resistor divider meant for measuring 3v3 levels Apr 14 17:31:55 you can use a resistor divider to scale down analog signals yes (if whatever you're measuring tolerates the resulting load) Apr 14 17:31:57 also what zmatt said, a resistive divider is all that is necessary to lower the voltage range. Apr 14 17:32:25 what pressure sensor is this Apr 14 17:32:27 ? Apr 14 17:48:21 mattb0ne? Apr 14 18:48:24 Really frustrated with the whole beagle line, I was a fan of the Angstrom images and even early Debian images, but I have burned up several Beaglebone Blacks due to the design of the sensor reading pins, the constant, constant, constant overlay changes, and now, the images on the pocketbeagle that WILL NOT come up as a storage device or USB device Apr 14 18:48:25 on either Linux or Windows 10 and WILL NOT therefore serve DHCP and I CANNOT therefore connect in any way. This is using multiple images, multiple beaglebones and multiple cables. Yes, I have installed the udev rules. I have tried to install Windows 10 drivers, but oops, NOT SIGNED. Apr 14 18:49:08 Can anyone point me to why these devices won't get recognized as a USB device? Apr 14 18:49:50 I get the "heartbeat" leds that lead me to believe the devices are booting properly. Apr 14 18:50:34 that's really odd, what image are you using? Apr 14 18:52:25 AM3358 Debian 10.3 2020-04-06 4GB SD IoT Apr 14 18:53:25 "the design of the sensor reading pins" ? are you talking about the expansion header I/O ? because they're simply the raw processor pins... and yeah those do need to be treated with care Apr 14 18:53:36 hmm odd, that image should definitely work just fine Apr 14 18:53:47 it's not showing up as network interface on linux? Apr 14 18:54:19 what does the kernel log say? Apr 14 18:54:33 It's not even showing up in /dev as a device. Apr 14 18:54:43 Guest93: since you were playing with Angstrom and Debian... I'm worried the ancient Angstrom u-boot is stuck in eMMC... Do you have a usb-serial adapter to go thru j1 to see what's actually booting? Apr 14 18:54:44 network devices don't show up in /dev Apr 14 18:54:58 rcn-ee: well he's talking about pocketbeagle Apr 14 18:55:31 Guest93: but, I do think that image should also show up as mass storage device indeed... so what does the kernel log say? Apr 14 18:56:04 Guest93: no udev rules need to be installed btw, nor any drivers installed Apr 14 18:56:12 that's all things of the past Apr 14 18:56:25 I'm looking at the kern.log Apr 14 18:56:49 Hang on Apr 14 18:57:50 on a modern systemd-based linux system you can get the kernel log using "journalctl -k" (add "-f" to follow it in real-time and/or "-n 100" to show the last 100 lines or "--since=-5min" to show the last 5 minutes) Apr 14 18:58:45 (it may or may not also still get written to some file, that will depend on distro, whether or not something like rsyslogd is installed, and how it's configured) Apr 14 18:59:23 I don't have systemd on this machine. Apr 14 18:59:50 hmm, ok Apr 14 19:01:28 `dmesg | grep cdc` should atleast show something.. as it's cdc gadget.. Apr 14 19:02:16 dmesg works to dump the kernel log too indeed (although it may require root privileges depending on the distro) Apr 14 19:06:14 I don't see anything regarding cdc, Apr 14 19:06:29 I see it getting recognized as a new usb device. Apr 14 19:07:10 can you share (using e.g. pastebin.com) what the kernel logs when it detects the pocketbeagle? Apr 14 19:09:07 Kernal log isn't seeing it, unfortunately. Apr 14 19:09:44 you just said it detects a new usb device Apr 14 19:09:58 Wonder's... are the modules loaded on your linux build? Apr 14 19:10:47 That was in dmesg | grep usb, but it appears I was wrong. Apr 14 19:10:59 rcn-ee that is a good question. Apr 14 19:11:13 What modules should I check? Apr 14 19:11:16 so nothing shows up at all in the kernel log in response to plugging in the pocketbeagle (after waiting for it to boot) Apr 14 19:11:30 if it's not detected as device then drivers are not yet relevant Apr 14 19:11:33 zmatt, correct. Apr 14 19:11:57 you sure this usb cable is working? Apr 14 19:13:24 I've tried multiple cables and now I'm trying a different pocketbeagle. Apr 14 19:14:15 you can use dmesg -w to monitor the kernel log in real time btw Apr 14 19:15:21 Yup. Apr 14 19:15:28 Monitoring that too. Apr 14 19:16:03 with: bone-debian-10.3-iot-armhf-2020-04-06-4gb.img.xz you should see: Apr 14 19:16:10 https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/687xP7IX/ Apr 14 19:16:45 if pocketbeagle booted from a fresh "AM3358 Debian 10.3 2020-04-06 4GB SD IoT" image fails to show up as usb device at all, the only logical possibilities are a bad cable or some kind of hardware problem Apr 14 19:17:19 do you see "cdc_acm" loaded under lsmod? Apr 14 19:17:59 rcn-ee: I mean, if the pc isn't even reporting "new usb device found" then it's also not going to load a driver Apr 14 19:18:44 https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/Oq8dlrtw/ Apr 14 19:19:13 Aha, I do not see cdc_acm Apr 14 19:20:12 Guest93: like I said, if it's not reporting the usb device as detected (the first six lines of https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/687xP7IX/ ) then there's no reason for any drivers to be loaded yet either Apr 14 19:20:27 So I've tried three cables combinations with three pocket beagles and two microsd cards. Apr 14 19:20:44 really bizarre Apr 14 19:21:01 i might have missed this... Did you flash it with etcher.io ? Apr 14 19:21:26 Yes, balena etcher Apr 14 19:21:32 On Windows 10 Apr 14 19:21:46 Is your linux box native or virtual machine? Apr 14 19:22:02 ps.. you can test the "PocketBeagle" by removing the microSD and pluggin in over usb... Apr 14 19:22:22 The led lights go through the boot process and finally go to a blinking heartbeat on usr0 Apr 14 19:22:32 The "usb" boot rom will show: Apr 14 19:22:36 https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/KjX1ZB47/ Apr 14 19:22:39 It's a native laptop Apr 14 19:22:40 so that should exclude a misflashed sd card Apr 14 19:22:40 and the heartbeat means it probably booted ok Apr 14 19:22:40 (or at least in the process thereof) Apr 14 19:22:59 So without a microsd, you can test the cable+pocketbeagle with TI's boot rom.. Apr 14 19:23:10 indeed, good idea Apr 14 19:23:31 Ok. Will try that. THANKS! Apr 14 19:24:39 The power led comes on and stays on and no recognition by the kern or dmesg Apr 14 19:25:07 So on the PocketBeagle that's normal... grab another un-tried usb cable.. Apr 14 19:25:19 the power led is normal, the no recognition isn't Apr 14 19:25:33 (no microsd) usb power -> just PWR led.. ;) Apr 14 19:25:36 yeah Apr 14 19:26:02 but yeah, if that doesn't show up either the cable is bad or the usb port on either side is defective Apr 14 19:26:22 i'd also personally try a different usb port on your PC.. Some usb3's can be buggy... find a usb2... Apr 14 19:26:42 Yup I'm trying a different usb port now. Apr 14 19:27:17 still weird to get no log message at all though, not even an error Apr 14 19:27:40 These are the short USB cables supplied with it. Apr 14 19:27:43 Personally, i also have one of these... https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07RN68561/ way to many usb cables. ;) Apr 14 19:28:21 Guest93: those *should* be fine... Apr 14 19:29:47 Is there any other way to connect to one of these if I assume it has booted? Apr 14 19:30:38 Also, It's not coming up on a separate Windows 10 laptop. Apr 14 19:30:39 Classic serial console is enabled on uart (rx/tx/gnd) don't remember which one... 115200/8/n/1 Apr 14 19:31:01 i think U0... Apr 14 19:31:15 I have a 3.3 volt ftdi basic. Apr 14 19:31:20 serial console, e.g. using a 3.3V usb-serial converter... but the pocketbeagle's serial console does not have an isolation buffer to protect it when the pocketbeagle is powered down so do be careful to only connect it while the pocketbeagle is powered on Apr 14 19:31:26 perfect... 3.3v must be used. ;) Apr 14 19:32:02 no isolation buffer = sad trombone.... Apr 14 19:32:03 No isolation.... so once you wire rx/tx/gnd.... DO NOT send any characters "space"...etc thru the termimal, untill you've powered the board! Apr 14 19:32:21 but, we know it's not a problem with the image (since even bootrom doesn't show up), and using the serial console isn't exactly a great alternative in the long term Apr 14 19:32:29 rcn-ee: no, do not connect at all Apr 14 19:32:35 serial is idle high Apr 14 19:33:04 "You can't get there from here" Apr 14 19:33:12 whether you send data or not is irrelevant Apr 14 19:33:22 That's how i blew a bunch of BeagleBone Blue's... Plug in serial... hit space key... then plugged in main power... smoke.. Apr 14 19:33:54 I can't remember how I blew those beaglebone blacks, Apr 14 19:34:25 I think connecting sensors using the wrong signal voltage. Apr 14 19:34:25 rcn-ee: there's no reason for the space key to be a relevant part in that... if there's no isolation buffer then connect a usb-serial converter to an unpowered am335x is sufficient to start frying it Apr 14 19:34:31 Black's are a little harder... as main usart is protcted... the rest anything over 3.3v or over 1.8 on adc... when no power... Apr 14 19:35:15 I mean, most ICs do not appreciate voltages significantly above the relevant supply voltage, whatever it may be.... unless the IC has been specifically designed to tolerate it Apr 14 19:35:43 Ok, so I can attach the ftdi basic to the pocketbeagle, but DO NOT plug the usb into the ftdi basic if the pocketbeagle isn't powered up and fully booted? Apr 14 19:36:00 (such as the isolation buffer used to protect the BeagleBone Black's serial console) Apr 14 19:36:06 Guest93: ehh I don't know if that's safe actually Apr 14 19:36:09 I doubt it Apr 14 19:36:40 you'll have the reverse problem: the pocketbeagle's txd would be driving unpowered I/O in the ftdi Apr 14 19:37:24 it'll depend on how the FTDI's pins behave electrically when unpowered, but it's quite possible it would lead to excessive current Apr 14 19:38:01 Doesn't the FTDI sense the voltage... also connect the vcc reference to v3.3. Apr 14 19:38:30 rcn-ee: only if someone added a level shifter to it, otherwise definitely not Apr 14 19:39:31 This is the venerable(?) sparkfun 3.3v ftdi basic Apr 14 19:39:43 Guest93: honestly I wouldn't mess with the serial console, especially since it won't help you fix your immediate problem Apr 14 19:40:00 Ok. Apr 14 19:40:08 I'm going to heed that advice. Apr 14 19:40:29 Blowing boards is expensive. Apr 14 19:42:02 yeah, and we know it's not a software issue since bootrom also doesn't show up (when you connect it without sd card) Apr 14 19:42:55 Ok, now this is interesting. Apr 14 19:44:56 hmm? Apr 14 19:45:12 I plugged a mikroe wifi ble click in and rebooted it, https://pastebin.com/TiifD21Z Apr 14 19:45:36 this is pure coincidence and unrelated Apr 14 19:45:41 Now I see that, which I'm taking to mean that the Mikroe is getting rejected. Apr 14 19:46:20 charon is a VPN thing on your laptop Apr 14 19:47:20 which apparently tried to overwrite your /etc/resolv.conf but wasn't permitted to do so Apr 14 19:47:22 Yeah, I have an ipsec running. Apr 14 19:47:35 so this has nothing to do with the pocketbeagle Apr 14 19:47:38 Lol. Apr 14 19:48:01 I have been wondering why I couldn't get remote dns to resolve. Apr 14 19:48:21 I should look at dmesg more often. Apr 14 19:48:23 apparently because your system's apparmor config is wrong Apr 14 19:48:48 Typical. Apr 14 19:50:04 So, this is probably a hardware issue? What should I see on a Windows 10 laptop? Apr 14 19:51:18 None of them are showing as a USB network device or as a USB storage device. Apr 14 19:51:23 On Windows 10... "My Computer" should show a USB Flash drive labeled as BeagleBone.. Apr 14 19:51:44 that's the easiest to find.. the rest all show up only in Device Manager.. Apr 14 19:52:00 Ok. I'm not seeing that either. Apr 14 19:54:30 as a last act of desperation you could try the pocketbeagle without sd card but I think Windows 10 won't recognize it as network interface due to Microsoft periodically making random changes to how Windows recognizes USB devices (and bootrom, being fixed in silicon, obviously can't be updated to meet microsoft's whims)... but it should still be detected as (unrecognized) usb device, with the usual ... Apr 14 19:54:36 ...ping-pong sound windows makes for a new device Apr 14 19:54:58 I think anyway, I don't use windows myself Apr 14 19:55:42 the next logical possibility is that your hardware, or possibly the entire building, is haunted by ghosts Apr 14 19:56:19 I probably am not drinking enough. Or maybe too much. Apr 14 19:58:37 maybe there's more than one problem going on, dunno... recently I spent hours debugging an issue with one of our customers that turned out to be four different issues in different components (only one of which ours) ... which made it quite a puzzle Apr 14 20:02:31 sorry i do not get alerts in wsl Apr 14 20:02:38 readin the chat now Apr 14 20:03:39 Thank you zmatt and rcn-ee Apr 14 20:04:30 I'm going to assume this is some hardware, cable or physical problem and work from there. Apr 14 20:04:38 or ghosts Apr 14 20:04:51 ;) Apr 14 20:04:59 Could be ghosts Apr 14 20:05:07 ok good thing I asked so I need a resistor divideder Apr 14 20:05:27 Guest93: yeah sorry, I can't really make sense of it Apr 14 20:05:42 mattb0ne: well the main question is what you're doing exactly, and what sensor is this? Apr 14 20:05:58 like, what you said about a level shifter didn't make sense in context Apr 14 20:06:49 Does the microusb connector have any pin outs on the pocketbeagle? Apr 14 20:07:11 Guest93: other than the microusb connector you mean? no Apr 14 20:07:51 I was thinking maybe there is an issue on the microusb pins. Apr 14 20:08:02 Is there an alternate way to power this? Apr 14 20:08:30 power it? sure, but it didn't sound like you were having issues powering the pocketbeagle Apr 14 20:09:06 I'm just spitballing and wondering if powering it and reading over the microUSB may be the issue. Apr 14 20:09:34 I don't know why it would be, but just desperate. Apr 14 20:09:44 that doesn't really make any sense Apr 14 20:10:03 None of this makes sense..... Apr 14 20:12:15 it may be interesting to measure the voltage on the D+ line to see if it gets pulled up, but from the photo it doesn't look like it's easily accessible Apr 14 20:14:06 I guess *maybe* it may be possible to get some information from the kernel log on the pocketbeagle via the serial console? but I'm not even sure what I'd be looking for Apr 14 20:14:49 it 'might' show "bad cable error...' ;) Apr 14 20:15:33 there are easier ways to diagnose a cable though, like trying a different one or trying that cable with another usb device Apr 14 20:15:45 exactly Apr 14 20:16:18 my eye's suck, but one could look at the 5 solder joints... to see if any of them look like a ball or weird.. Apr 14 20:16:57 but more then one? randomly less maybe one... but more in the same user.. Apr 14 20:24:15 mattb0ne? Apr 14 20:49:39 zmatt: this is the sensor I am using now but I am going to switch when I get the rest of the set up working Apr 14 20:49:40 https://www.amazon.com/Pressure-Transducer-Sender-Sensor-Stainless/dp/B074QPD5RT Apr 14 20:50:22 its really crappy but I am looking to stream readings from this into the ADC on the beagle Apr 14 20:51:08 isnt that 5v? Apr 14 20:51:46 yeah i have level shift Apr 14 20:52:05 a level shifter is not useful for analog signals Apr 14 20:53:20 you can probably just use a voltage divider to scale its output from 0-5V down to 0-1.8V Apr 14 20:54:22 although it doesn't specify what its output impedance is, which is kinda important to know Apr 14 20:55:19 reviews look pretty bad Apr 14 20:55:49 or at least, very inconsistent Apr 14 21:19:14 yeah it is horrible Apr 14 21:19:16 just cheap Apr 14 21:19:25 need to get the rest of the stuff working than spring for a better sensor Apr 14 21:19:35 can I buy a mdoule that will do the voltage division Apr 14 21:20:45 2 resistors will do that Apr 14 21:22:41 or use an op-amp and worry less about matching Apr 14 21:23:40 the opamp solution also protects against my second worry: if this sensor is powered from 5V then during power-on it'll end up outputting its signal *before* the 1.8V supplies of the beaglebone are powered up Apr 14 21:24:45 though if you are more a digital person, a MSP430 infront might be better (there are op-amp enabled ones and they seemto behave a little better then raw op-amps) Apr 14 21:30:04 in practice, a resistor divider with fairly large resistor values would probably suffice Apr 14 21:31:04 (and maybe a capacitor if noise is a problem) Apr 14 21:31:49 for a pure resistor divider,just watchout as the values may not be a direct scale Apr 14 21:32:08 i.e. current coming from the ADC, loading, etc Apr 14 21:32:29 ADC leakage is pretty negligible iirc Apr 14 21:32:59 isn't there a noticable current from the SH caps? Apr 14 21:34:06 I mean, any such current will be very brief, it's only 5.5 pF Apr 14 21:34:24 that's why the sample-time should be configured sufficiently high Apr 14 21:35:17 yes, but that would require understanding it enough to pick a setting Apr 14 21:36:16 https://github.com/mvduin/overlay-utils/blob/master/adc.dtsi#L62-L73 Apr 15 02:05:55 Well, the mechanics of it all are pitiful at best so far. The place I visited today was closed. In one lane and out the other. Sheesh. Anyway, I will keep on trying. Apr 15 02:06:47 BBB rover mower! I am on it. This is a good project for me. Simple, hard to understand why, and oh so needed in the US. Green grasses do not stop. Apr 15 02:33:05 do we still have chat logs the internet crap out on me for a few hours Apr 15 02:33:18 never mind Apr 15 02:33:22 see it in the welcome message Apr 15 02:48:21 always build a robotic roundup sprayer...that'll stop the grass :D Apr 15 02:49:24 Ha. Apr 15 02:49:49 Not kill, finely slice its blades down to a mushy, soft plush THANG. Apr 15 02:51:45 then you still got to water and feed it Apr 15 02:54:24 I know now! Sheesh. Apr 15 02:54:42 Why not throw money at it and watch the cloth be eaten in time? **** ENDING LOGGING AT Fri Apr 15 02:59:57 2022