**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Dec 29 02:59:57 2022
Dec 29 03:39:19 <Guest60> hi
Dec 29 03:40:18 <Guest60> i have a problem with my pocketbeagle i was unable to connect to internet with usb cable.
Dec 29 03:44:13 <set_> Me neither...I think things are being updated w/ nginx and servers.
**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Dec 29 17:23:49 2022
Dec 29 21:27:30 <set_> are docs. and git out?
Dec 29 21:27:43 <set_> I just checked. The forum is up!
Dec 29 21:27:55 <set_> Excuse me if it is me. My power went out earlier.
Dec 29 21:36:08 <set_> I erased all my data. Oops. But still, the link for git.beagleboard.org and docs.beagleboard.org are out!
Dec 29 21:36:23 <set_> Oh well. Off to wait around like a fool...
Dec 29 21:36:27 <set_> BBB!
Dec 29 21:37:41 <set_> bbl!
Dec 29 21:44:33 <zmatt> beagleboard.org main website is also unreachable
Dec 29 21:44:36 <zmatt> jkridner: ping
Dec 29 21:46:16 <jkridner> wassup?
Dec 29 21:46:23 <jkridner> oh my
Dec 29 21:47:31 <jkridner> https://www.beagleboard.org/ is still up, but main site is down
Dec 29 21:48:08 <zmatt> huh, www.beagleboard.org and beagleboard.org point to different IPs
Dec 29 21:56:20 <jkridner> yeah. :-/
Dec 29 21:57:00 <jkridner> it’ll be a couple hours before i can log in and probably deal with a disk-full issue. :-(
Dec 29 21:58:05 <zmatt> oh it's not just an IP issue, beagleboard.org actually *is* a different server than www.beagleboard.org ?  that's... unusual
Dec 29 22:53:56 <set_> Did I do good?
Dec 29 22:54:18 <set_> Or was the peoples, the people's people, already aware of it?
Dec 29 22:56:07 <set_> Oh and I finally figured out the different IP stuff too. My site, my POOR man's site, is up and has three sites that are all pointing to it but use their IP addresses instead.
Dec 29 22:56:33 <set_> and their IP and naming scheme!
Dec 29 22:56:40 <set_> nginx is neat!
Dec 29 22:57:54 <set_> and for soccer fan...Pele is dead. I am sorry.
Dec 29 22:58:34 <set_> I do not know the segway for Pele and BBB but I will bbl to think of one!
Dec 29 22:59:43 <set_> oh! If I could only get my Servo Cape to kick the soccer ball like Pele used to do in the World Cup(s), the BBB will be better off?
Dec 29 23:00:07 * set_ states, "Okay and done."
Dec 29 23:27:17 <set_> if you or anyone needs a server setting, let this dude know!
Dec 29 23:27:25 * set_ can do-eeee!
Dec 30 00:58:10 <TheConceptBoy> Good day.
Dec 30 00:59:14 <TheConceptBoy> I have recently achieved getting a python tkinter application to show up on baglebone black debian 11 minimal version
Dec 30 00:59:26 <TheConceptBoy> I achieved it by installing xorg
Dec 30 00:59:57 <TheConceptBoy> I had since then formatted and re-flashed the sd card to try the process again to see if I can reproduce it
Dec 30 01:00:12 <TheConceptBoy> except now when I start xorg, it seems like the screen freezes
Dec 30 01:00:17 <TheConceptBoy> I can't type anything
Dec 30 01:00:27 <TheConceptBoy> so I can't really tell if it has frozen
Dec 30 01:05:18 <set_> Hello! I have issues too. What is your question?
Dec 30 01:06:59 <TheConceptBoy> Anything jump out as to why I can't input anything once I start x?
Dec 30 01:07:16 <set_> For instance, why would someone sell me a pencil sharpener if I cannot sharpen pencils w/ it? Better yet, the real issue here, why would someone say SAS to USB-C if there is no serial connection? <<< Not about the BBB, though.
Dec 30 01:07:30 <set_> ...
Dec 30 01:07:40 <set_> Hmm.
Dec 30 01:07:49 <set_> x, heh?
Dec 30 01:08:07 <set_> Well, I think waiting for someone more mature than I would be a start.
Dec 30 01:08:17 <TheConceptBoy> indeed. It's the only way I got a tkinter window to show up
Dec 30 01:08:28 <TheConceptBoy> but that was last time, I had since then started with a fresh slate
Dec 30 01:09:51 <set_> Hmm. That is odd. Maybe the same image has some items removed, i.e. were both minimal images?
Dec 30 01:10:26 <TheConceptBoy> am335x-debian-11.5-minimal-armhf-2022-11-01-2gb.img.xz
Dec 30 01:11:19 <set_> Oh! I use that one at times too. Same image, different ideas. Got it so far. I do not want to blame people here. I really cannot explain what happened.
Dec 30 01:11:36 <set_> I am not affiliated, i.e. as you can tell.
Dec 30 01:11:45 <set_> I will hush now.
Dec 30 01:11:52 <TheConceptBoy> I have a choice between x11 and kmsdrm. So another question is - Do you install kmsdrm same way you do X11?
Dec 30 01:12:00 * set_ says listening is golden!
Dec 30 01:12:20 <TheConceptBoy> I just need something to render windows / a frame buffer
Dec 30 01:12:33 <TheConceptBoy> X11 is the closest I could set up
Dec 30 01:12:47 <TheConceptBoy> but there's also kmsdrm which is another solution supported by SDL2
Dec 30 01:13:13 <set_> I think debian uses wayland now?
Dec 30 01:13:28 <set_> I am not quite sure, i.e. as I have not tried w/ tkinter in some time.
Dec 30 01:14:12 <zmatt> TheConceptBoy: kmsdrm is not a thing you install, it's referring to kernel APIs code can use to directly display graphics
Dec 30 01:14:33 <zmatt> using the direct rendering manager (drm) and kernel modesetting (kms)
Dec 30 01:15:58 <zmatt> things like x11 and wayland are layered on top of it, but libraries (e.g. sdl or qt) can also use it directly
Dec 30 01:16:34 <set_> whelp, two MBRs down the drain. I am losing it!
Dec 30 01:18:35 <zmatt> TheConceptBoy: iirc the problem we ran into with sdl is that it doesn't actually use drm directly but instead uses Mesa's libgbm, which is a problem when you have hardware that isn't supported by mesa
Dec 30 01:19:24 <TheConceptBoy> I see
Dec 30 01:19:51 <TheConceptBoy> now is wayland engaged in minimal debian?
Dec 30 01:19:53 <zmatt> which is unfortunate since the libgbm functionality it needs (to allocate buffers) maps directly to kernel APIs which work just fine on the beaglebone
Dec 30 01:20:54 <zmatt> I don't know if anyone has ever had wayland working on a beaglebone
Dec 30 01:22:10 <zmatt> the problem is that a lot of modern stuff just seems to assume anything that supports a monitor also has a working GPU supported by mesa
Dec 30 01:24:30 <zmatt> even if they don't really need it
Dec 30 01:25:42 <TheConceptBoy> My recent experiment with the ESP32 for this text based game has come crashing down when I discovered that the display driver board can't share SPI port because it doesn't handle tristate SPI pins.
Dec 30 01:25:55 <TheConceptBoy> So I'm looking into the beaglebone again for this
Dec 30 01:25:57 <zmatt> lol, fail
Dec 30 01:26:05 <TheConceptBoy> mega fail
Dec 30 01:26:24 <TheConceptBoy> literally the whole idea of SPI is to be able to select which slave to push data to
Dec 30 01:26:26 <TheConceptBoy> in any case
Dec 30 01:26:50 <TheConceptBoy> that and the prospect of having to deal with the memory limitations
Dec 30 01:27:11 <TheConceptBoy> I really want the beaglebone to some other mini computer solution
Dec 30 01:28:44 <TheConceptBoy> any possible idea about the xorg issue zmatt ?
Dec 30 01:28:57 <TheConceptBoy> When I start x server via startx
Dec 30 01:29:14 <TheConceptBoy> I see the screen flash and what I can only imagine x server console starting up
Dec 30 01:29:22 <TheConceptBoy> but I can't type in anything after that shows up
Dec 30 01:29:48 <zmatt> I mean, I wouldn't expect you'd be able to just type anything in if you start x, since x would be running so what are you typing into?
Dec 30 01:30:18 <TheConceptBoy> I'm trying to start a python app in xserver
Dec 30 01:30:38 <zmatt> I'm not super knowledgable about x
Dec 30 01:30:38 <TheConceptBoy> I mean when I run the command for startx, the console visual look changes
Dec 30 01:31:01 <TheConceptBoy> so I only assume that what I am seeing is a separate console view
Dec 30 01:31:14 <TheConceptBoy> maybe I should try iot version of xserver
Dec 30 01:31:27 <zmatt> "iot version of xserver" ?
Dec 30 01:31:29 <TheConceptBoy> oops
Dec 30 01:31:33 <TheConceptBoy> iot version of devian
Dec 30 01:31:36 <TheConceptBoy> debian*
Dec 30 01:31:52 <zmatt> neither minimal nor iot include anything x-related unless you install it
Dec 30 01:32:04 <zmatt> so I would expect zero difference
Dec 30 01:32:09 <TheConceptBoy> yes I had to install it
Dec 30 01:32:11 <TheConceptBoy> well let me see
Dec 30 01:32:17 <TheConceptBoy> takes all of a few minutes
Dec 30 01:32:21 <TheConceptBoy> and I'm already at my bench
Dec 30 01:33:03 <TheConceptBoy> I'll at least confirm of disprove the hypothesis
Dec 30 01:35:16 <TheConceptBoy> Another thing I was recommended is to look into using a custom linux SoC
Dec 30 01:35:30 <TheConceptBoy> so I can deviate from dependability on the raspberry pi
Dec 30 01:36:20 <TheConceptBoy> However if I can't even get my project running on a beaglebone - an already existing platform with many experts, I can't hope to even think of doing something as running a custom SoC linux of my own.
Dec 30 01:36:31 <zmatt> you mean a custom linux sbc?
Dec 30 01:36:54 <zmatt> a custom SoC would be a bit excessive ;)
Dec 30 01:37:16 <TheConceptBoy> Or I mean an existing processor that one can use to build a custom linux board
Dec 30 01:37:26 <TheConceptBoy> SBC stands for?
Dec 30 01:37:30 <zmatt> single-board computer
Dec 30 01:37:44 <TheConceptBoy> Ah I was thinking SOC as in System on a Chip
Dec 30 01:37:46 <zmatt> i.e. what the rpi and bbb are
Dec 30 01:38:02 <zmatt> yeah a SoC is the chip
Dec 30 01:38:50 <set_> custom!
Dec 30 01:38:57 <set_> am335x!
Dec 30 01:39:02 <TheConceptBoy> So yeah, the double edge sword of an RPI is as smooth as evething ran on it, it's unavailability is a blow
Dec 30 01:39:55 <zmatt> the bbb is unfortunately not ideal for anything graphics, even though it's obviously more capable than an esp32, library support can be a bit lacking
Dec 30 01:40:15 <TheConceptBoy> Any possible recomendations?
Dec 30 01:40:41 <zmatt> no, I haven't really done anything with graphics in quite a while
Dec 30 01:40:47 <TheConceptBoy> I see a lot of bananna Pi's
Dec 30 01:41:01 <TheConceptBoy> or orange pis
Dec 30 01:41:15 <zmatt> and my only experience with a gui on the bbb was using qt5
Dec 30 01:42:29 <set_> Orange pis?
Dec 30 01:42:38 <set_> What is that?
Dec 30 01:42:53 <set_> Like when you work outdoors w/out water intake?
Dec 30 01:43:56 <set_> All jokes aside...
Dec 30 01:44:11 <zmatt> banana pi and orange pi are chinese boards based on chinese SoCs
Dec 30 01:44:16 <set_> Oh.
Dec 30 01:44:35 <set_> I mean...I knew of the make. I was unaware of the Chinese SoCs onboard.
Dec 30 01:44:56 <set_> Like Pine or whatever it is called?
Dec 30 01:45:19 <set_> I can look. No issue.
Dec 30 01:46:09 <TheConceptBoy> Yeah they're basically Raspberry Pi mimmics
Dec 30 01:46:14 <TheConceptBoy> I don't know how good they are
Dec 30 01:46:50 <set_> I wonder...
Dec 30 01:47:46 <set_> I got this darn server and it boots but my MBR, two down so far, disks are not showing up any longer. Even w/ serial attached.
Dec 30 01:47:58 <set_> It is not easy work.
Dec 30 01:48:57 <set_> I know now how people learn. Either through a really good TRM or other reference manuals and/or by doing a bunch of "dirt" on the machines until they work!
Dec 30 01:49:50 <set_> I am currently working on them to create multitudes of an infrastructure.
Dec 30 01:50:04 <TheConceptBoy> Ok so installing IoT debian did not make xserver not freeze on start
Dec 30 01:50:11 <set_> Yes!
Dec 30 01:50:20 <TheConceptBoy> it's so weird as I had it working before
Dec 30 01:50:37 <set_> Oh. But...it works now!
Dec 30 01:50:54 <TheConceptBoy> not now, no
Dec 30 01:51:01 <set_> Oh. Just no freeze.
Dec 30 01:51:12 <TheConceptBoy> when I type startx,
Dec 30 01:51:25 <TheConceptBoy> it does flash screen and a new looking console shows up
Dec 30 01:51:31 <TheConceptBoy> but I can't type
Dec 30 01:53:15 <TheConceptBoy> hmm
Dec 30 01:53:17 <TheConceptBoy> in terms of qt
Dec 30 01:53:24 <set_> Oh.
Dec 30 01:53:33 <TheConceptBoy> how did you use qt? zmatt
Dec 30 01:53:49 <set_> is there a Qt5 keyboard install?
Dec 30 01:53:51 <TheConceptBoy> did you run debian with a desktop?
Dec 30 01:54:20 <TheConceptBoy> set_ The keyboard issue is with the xorg itself
Dec 30 01:54:29 <TheConceptBoy> I'm not doing anything with qt right now
Dec 30 01:54:33 <set_> Oh.
Dec 30 01:54:34 <set_> Okay.
Dec 30 01:54:55 <TheConceptBoy> all I see when I run startx is
Dec 30 01:54:59 <TheConceptBoy> it cuts to black for a second
Dec 30 01:55:03 <TheConceptBoy> and then I see:
Dec 30 01:55:14 <set_> Blank?
Dec 30 01:55:15 <TheConceptBoy> debian@BeableBone:`$
Dec 30 01:55:17 <set_> Oh.
Dec 30 01:55:25 <TheConceptBoy> yeah
Dec 30 01:55:35 <TheConceptBoy> this is basically the terminal console
Dec 30 01:55:38 <set_> So, you have a LCD?
Dec 30 01:55:39 <TheConceptBoy> but it looks a bit different
Dec 30 01:55:43 <TheConceptBoy> yes
Dec 30 01:55:45 <set_> Oh.
Dec 30 01:55:46 <set_> Okay.
Dec 30 01:55:48 <TheConceptBoy> OH god I should have mentioned
Dec 30 01:55:51 <set_> Ha.
Dec 30 01:55:52 <TheConceptBoy> I'm an idiot
Dec 30 01:56:02 <set_> No, I am far less equipped than you!
Dec 30 01:56:04 <TheConceptBoy> yes, I have an hdmi display
Dec 30 01:56:11 <set_> oh. HDMI.
Dec 30 01:56:19 <set_> Dang, no wonder I could not help you.
Dec 30 01:56:28 <TheConceptBoy> so when I use startx, I type it in directly into the beaglebone via a keyboard
Dec 30 01:56:58 <set_> If you use the file .vnc and look through it, what do you see?
Dec 30 01:57:16 <TheConceptBoy> is this a command of some sort?
Dec 30 01:57:23 <zmatt> TheConceptBoy: we used qt5 directly on the framebuffer.  we actually went through the hassle of getting the eglfs backend working (using the gpu drivers) because at that time the linuxfb backend caused flickering due to lack of double-buffering, but nowadays qt5's linuxfb backend supports drm hence I would go with that instead and avoid the gpu
Dec 30 01:57:45 <zmatt> set_: wtf are you talking about, he's not using vnc
Dec 30 01:58:09 <set_> I know. But you can alter, startx directly in the file /.vnc/startx.
Dec 30 01:58:24 <set_> This helps a bit when building.
Dec 30 01:58:27 <zmatt> set_: ?!?
Dec 30 01:58:30 <zmatt> ???
Dec 30 01:58:38 <set_> Only for servers. right.
Dec 30 01:58:43 <set_> But...it is a start.
Dec 30 01:58:47 <zmatt> what are you rambling about?
Dec 30 01:58:51 <set_> Nothing.
Dec 30 01:58:54 <set_> Forget me not!
Dec 30 01:59:02 <TheConceptBoy> zmatt is the qt setup hassle something that I would also have to do on my end?
Dec 30 01:59:14 <TheConceptBoy> I'd like to see if I can get it to run like you dod, from the frame buffer directly
Dec 30 01:59:14 <zmatt> TheConceptBoy: no
Dec 30 02:00:17 <TheConceptBoy> Is it just good old pyqt?
Dec 30 02:00:19 <zmatt> like I just said, the hassle was for the eglfs backend, the linuxfb backend was hassle-free but back then (many years ago) had obnoxious flickering which it should nowadays no longer have (if you use QT_QPA_FB_DRM=1)
Dec 30 02:00:21 <TheConceptBoy> or some special build
Dec 30 02:00:33 <zmatt> we didn't use pyqt but you can use qt5 in whatever way you want
Dec 30 02:00:44 <zmatt> it doesn't require any custom qt5 build
Dec 30 02:00:48 <TheConceptBoy> Oh right because you didn't use python for that project
Dec 30 02:00:56 <TheConceptBoy> In my case I'm using python
Dec 30 02:01:01 <zmatt> you just set some environment variables
Dec 30 02:02:59 <zmatt> QT_QPA_PLATFORM=linuxfb  and  QT_QPA_FB_DRM=1
Dec 30 02:03:08 <zmatt> see also https://doc.qt.io/qt-5/embedded-linux.html
Dec 30 02:03:27 <jkridner> back up
Dec 30 02:03:32 <jkridner> just rebooted it....
Dec 30 02:03:37 <jkridner> not sure what happened yet.
Dec 30 02:04:11 <zmatt> jkridner: how come beagleboard.org and www.beagleboard.org are different websites?  that seems highly unusual
Dec 30 02:04:37 <set_> Off to look!
Dec 30 02:04:39 <zmatt> normally you'd expect one to just redirect to the other
Dec 30 02:04:51 <jkridner> yes, but I'm not happy with the new site yet.
Dec 30 02:04:58 <set_> docs work!
Dec 30 02:05:21 <set_> git works!
Dec 30 02:06:09 <zmatt> jkridner: ah.  btw, you may want to rotate the antenna out on the beaglebone wireless that's shown on the new homepage
Dec 30 02:06:41 <set_> @zmatt: Are people harassing you about antennas again?
Dec 30 02:06:47 <zmatt> set_: ?
Dec 30 02:06:57 <set_> I know for a while people were wondering!
Dec 30 02:07:05 <zmatt> who? what are you talking about?
Dec 30 02:07:09 <set_> "How far apart do these antennas need to be?"
Dec 30 02:07:20 <zmatt> ??
Dec 30 02:07:30 <set_> Maybe you were not involved.
Dec 30 02:07:32 <set_> Sorry.
Dec 30 02:08:22 <set_> I cannot remember who. This when the forums started and transferred from the google groups.
Dec 30 02:08:24 <zmatt> just rotate them out, they're shipped pointing inwards (hugging the board) to protect the antennas during shipment but they should be rotated outwards before using the board
Dec 30 02:12:45 <set_> I removed the antennas. I then repositioned them to point outwards!
Dec 30 02:13:07 <set_> It is near impossible to rotate them w/ success.
Dec 30 02:13:39 <set_> Speaking of the BBBW, are those boards getting a replacement WiFi?
Dec 30 02:33:58 <set_> If so, awesome! If not, not as awesome...
Dec 30 02:34:12 <set_> Bowing out for now! BBL!
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Fri Dec 30 02:59:56 2022