**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Jan 26 17:48:20 2012
Jan 26 19:01:04 <erupnu> why is it so quiet in here? I assume you are all working on porting your apps to iOS and Android?
Jan 26 19:01:15 <halfhalo> lets go with that
Jan 26 19:01:23 <sugardave> soon, Yule Log will be everywhere
Jan 26 19:01:43 <erupnu> sugardave *groan*
Jan 26 19:02:02 <sugardave> hey, I sold 2 copies last November!
Jan 26 19:02:43 <erupnu> <-- is about to hit publish for ZIP Code Tools on iOS
Jan 26 19:03:01 <sugardave> woo, nice!
Jan 26 19:03:04 <erupnu> still have my jQTouch versionf or phone, but used a modified Enjo for launching the ENyo version on iPad
Jan 26 19:41:27 <ka6sox> sigh...came here to learn about EnyoJS...not iOS stuff.
Jan 26 19:41:56 <erupnu> ka6sox: what do you need to know?
Jan 26 19:43:00 <ka6sox> just watching to learn, I am a systems guy, but want to use it for some apps I need.
Jan 26 19:43:58 <erupnu> most of the people here for now are already familiar with Enyo, so we will discuss a lot about specific platforms. Just how it is
Jan 26 19:44:18 <erupnu> I'm not much for training, but I suggest starting with the examples, it should get you started
Jan 26 19:44:18 <ka6sox> thats fine
Jan 26 19:44:55 <ka6sox> I am somewhat familiar with webOS.
Jan 26 19:46:20 <erupnu> not sure what you need help with, but if you have a specific question, I'll take a stab at it
Jan 26 20:43:09 <PatrickC> erupnu: you tried enyo on BB OS yet?
Jan 26 20:43:28 <erupnu> PatrickC: yes, I was less than happy
Jan 26 20:43:37 <PatrickC> that stinks :/
Jan 26 20:43:39 <Roy-Pre101> That's the way I feel when I use BBOS
Jan 26 20:44:02 <erupnu> lol, you know, the playbook is not really bad
Jan 26 20:44:11 <erupnu> I played with one at Web Directions and it's fairly solid
Jan 26 20:44:26 <Roy-Pre101> I was more talking about their phones… I haven't used a playbook for any period of time.
Jan 26 20:44:38 <PatrickC> Roy-Pre101: did you find the WOR to-go app working good?
Jan 26 20:44:55 <erupnu> last BB phone I ever touched was a Storm, and I assur eyou no one in my home will have another BB again
Jan 26 20:45:06 <Roy-Pre101> PatrickC: Working well, anyhow. :)
Jan 26 20:45:21 <Roy-Pre101> Yeah, I need to check out the upgrade notice, which means I need to downgrade and try again.  It's on my list
Jan 26 20:45:41 <PatrickC> ok thx
Jan 26 20:46:10 <PatrickC> erupnu: I have a Bold 9650.. it isnt horrible
Jan 26 20:46:18 <PatrickC> but it isn't amazing either lol
Jan 26 20:46:20 <erupnu> anywho, Playbook does work. I simply have issues with databases inside of an Enyo kind. I move it straight JS, its fine. Very strange
Jan 26 20:56:20 <_minego> How does enyo perform on the playbook? Better than android?
Jan 26 21:02:51 <erupnu> only played with it on the simulator, so not sure
Jan 26 21:24:28 <rwaldron> Anyone home?
Jan 26 21:24:37 <erupnu> I'm always home, I work here
Jan 26 21:24:37 <_minego> no
Jan 26 21:24:43 <_minego> I'm at the office
Jan 26 21:25:04 <rwaldron> I'm wondering who here, if anyone, is managing the git repo enyojs/enyo?
Jan 26 21:25:06 <djfun> I am home, it's 10.25 pm here^^
Jan 26 21:25:33 <PatrickC> im at home. homeschooling FTW :)
Jan 26 21:25:53 <erupnu> Not sure who is running the git repo, I imagine Ben
Jan 26 21:26:12 <PatrickC> yeah, i think thats who i see making all the commits
Jan 26 21:26:16 <PatrickC> Adora, comments? :)
Jan 26 21:26:48 <rwaldron> Yeah, he pinged me on twitter earlier
Jan 26 21:26:55 <rwaldron> and then answered a Q on the forum
Jan 26 21:27:12 <rwaldron> but I'm seeing someone with the user name "sjsmiles" is the most active
Jan 26 21:27:29 <rwaldron> I'm just wondering what the reality of enyo's open source claim is
Jan 26 21:27:46 <rwaldron> since it seems to be ignoring PRs with meaningful patches
Jan 26 21:28:28 <erupnu> I wouldn't sweat it too much, remember, they just announced it yesterday
Jan 26 21:28:44 <erupnu> I am sure they are simply getting used to things and maybe even breathing since they have been working hard for weeks now
Jan 26 21:30:13 <rwhitby> rwaldron: note that the roadmap doesn't have the governance model in place until Feb. so you can't have any expectations of formal community submissions until then, since they have no guidelines on how to accept and incorporate them (from a legal standpoint)
Jan 26 21:31:25 <rwhitby> open source is a license definition.  open & community-involving development is another level, which requires a governance model to be determined first.
Jan 26 21:31:44 <rwaldron> Yeah bro. I'm aware
Jan 26 21:32:03 <rwaldron> I'm a core jQuery contributor, I wrote our current contribution guide
Jan 26 21:32:08 <rwaldron> but thanks for the lesson.
Jan 26 21:32:15 <rwhitby> cool, you know the legal issues then.
Jan 26 21:32:30 <rwaldron> Would've been nice if that information was actually posted in the repo's readme
Jan 26 21:32:44 <rwhitby> what information?
Jan 26 21:33:20 <rwaldron> before i spent time reviewing the code, writing tickets, tests and patches
Jan 26 21:33:33 <rwaldron> information about your "governance model"
Jan 26 21:34:17 <rwhitby> rwaldron: I dunno whether it's just lack of tone in IRC, but I'm sensing some angst here.  "my" governance model?
Jan 26 21:34:50 <rwaldron> Did I wrongly assume that your directly involved in the project?
Jan 26 21:35:02 <rwhitby> I am not a HP employee
Jan 26 21:35:07 <rwaldron> Gotcha
Jan 26 21:36:56 <rwhitby> rwaldron: it seems you're angry cause the contribution model is not published yet, when the roadmap clearly says it will be published in Feb.
Jan 26 21:37:35 <rwhitby> (again, maybe I'm misreading your tone over IRC)
Jan 26 21:37:45 <rwaldron> I think you're misreading
Jan 26 21:37:57 <rwhitby> no worries then.
Jan 26 21:39:43 <rwaldron> Incidently, there is no mention of a roadmap here: https://github.com/enyojs/enyo
Jan 26 21:40:11 <rwhitby> nod
Jan 26 21:40:31 <rwaldron> nor is there a mention of february in the "roadmap" here: http://enyojs.com/ or here http://enyojs.com/#faq
Jan 26 21:41:05 <rwaldron> the license links to an apache 2
Jan 26 21:41:24 <rwaldron> which does define contribution,
Jan 26 21:41:39 <rwaldron> Where can I read the information you mentioned above?
Jan 26 21:41:46 <rwhitby> in the press release
Jan 26 21:42:31 <rwaldron> link?
Jan 26 21:42:37 <rwhitby> http://www.hp.com/hpinfo/newsroom/press/2012/120125a.html
Jan 26 21:43:41 <rwaldron> Is that linked anywhere on the site?
Jan 26 21:43:45 <rwatkins> the roadmaps differ as well  pr says UI for Enyo in Feb but http://enyojs.com/#about says march
Jan 26 21:43:53 <rwaldron> Is the site for developers or the media?
Jan 26 21:46:13 <rwhitby> what's your opinion on that?
Jan 26 21:46:24 <rwatkins> need to re-topic this room as "nicks that start with 'rw'"
Jan 26 21:46:45 <rwaldron> ha
Jan 26 21:46:46 <rwhitby> yeah, two-character collision auto-complete sucks
Jan 26 21:47:14 <rwatkins> ha!
Jan 26 21:47:19 <rwaldron> rwhitby what do you mean by "what's your opinion on that?"
Jan 26 21:47:19 <rw_djfun> ^^
Jan 26 21:47:38 <rwhitby> rwaldron: you're asking if the site is for developer or media - what does it look like from where you're standing?
Jan 26 21:47:50 <rwaldron> I dont have any opinion, i have a dream. a dream that developer information will be where developers will find it
Jan 26 21:48:14 <rwhitby> they should put the site in github too, so one can pull request fixes to it
Jan 26 21:48:15 <rwaldron> what does it look like from where I'm standing?
Jan 26 21:48:17 <rwaldron> "openwash"
Jan 26 21:48:28 <rwaldron> i want to be wrong
Jan 26 21:48:58 <rwhitby> so you're coming from a position of preconception on the first day after the announcement? isn't that premature?
Jan 26 21:49:19 <fcheslack> to be fair, they do have information on https://developer.palm.com/
Jan 26 21:49:24 <rwx> clearly, rwaldron is not familiar with the concept of "Palm time"
Jan 26 21:49:49 <rwhitby> ah yes, http://developer.palm.com/blog/2012/01/welcome-to-webos-open-source/ does have more explanation
Jan 26 21:50:07 <rwatkins> rwx: no, please no.  set milestones and execute please.
Jan 26 21:50:08 <rwaldron> but after spending several hours looking at the code on github, last night and today, it's obvious that the enyo that was released isn't the quality that would've been shipped on devices, which makes me wonder what was really being "open sourced"
Jan 26 21:50:13 <rwaldron> and no, not 1 day.
Jan 26 21:50:31 <rwaldron> my clock started with meg whitman's announcement
Jan 26 21:50:44 <rwhitby> rwaldron: the 1.0 repo is what is currently shipping on devices
Jan 26 21:50:50 <rwhitby> the 2.0 repo is a rewrite I believe
Jan 26 21:51:14 <rwhitby> 1.0 repo is published with apache 2.0 license, hence "open sourced"
Jan 26 21:51:23 <rwhitby> 1.0 repo is end of life, however.
Jan 26 21:51:28 <happycub1> ... a rewrite that will support non-webkit browsers
Jan 26 21:51:51 <rwhitby> (so I wouldn't expect a comprehensive contribution module for the 1.0 repo)
Jan 26 21:51:53 <rwatkins> but conveniently apache licensed so you can fix your own 1.0 issues and just ship the framework yourself.
Jan 26 21:52:30 <rwhitby> rwatkins: yep, part of a good end-of-life strategy
Jan 26 21:54:42 * rwhitby doesn't get the whole "why wasn't everything finalised yesterday" mentality about this - it's a piece of code that was born and developed as a proprietary product, and is now in the process of being open sourced - that stuff takes time.  I doubt many of those expecting it yesterday have ever been through that process.
Jan 26 21:55:52 <happycube> ditto... that and the enyo rewrite is *necessary* to achieve the new project goals, it isn't just a piece of webOS anymore
Jan 26 21:56:04 <rwaldron> rwhitby, my company open sourced a proprietary app today
Jan 26 21:56:06 <sugardave> funny story...I didn't even know there WAS a roadmap until yesterday :)
Jan 26 21:56:10 <rwaldron> and it's open for contribution today
Jan 26 21:56:21 <rwaldron> and our announcement was also today
Jan 26 21:56:21 <happycube> how long did your company plan it, though?
Jan 26 21:56:35 <rwatkins> its one thing to just take your repo and put it up on the web, its another to rewrite your systems and make them open as you do so.
Jan 26 21:56:50 <happycube> (also, bigger companies have bigger legal departments to clear things with...)
Jan 26 21:57:13 <fcheslack> rwaldron: was it also something you acquired in a multi-billion dollar deal that may have been developed with pieces from a dozen other companies?
Jan 26 21:57:24 <rwaldron> http://weblog.bocoup.com/startup-data-trends/
Jan 26 21:57:35 <rwaldron> http://startupdatatrends.com/
Jan 26 21:59:36 <happycube> the governance model is already ahead of android... we would've just heard wonderful things about enyo 2 yesterday and not seen it till april ;)
Jan 26 21:59:47 <rwhitby> rwaldron: sure, there are going to be varying speeds at which very different products from very different companies can be open sourced.
Jan 26 22:00:18 <rwhitby> rwaldron: my statement is about your assertion of "openwash" which seems premature as a pronouncement
Jan 26 22:01:16 <rwhitby> i.e. it seems to be an accusation about the intent of the people doing this, rather than just stating "it seems to be going slower than what I would hope"
Jan 26 22:01:19 <sugardave> I take it "openwash" is a derogatory term aimed at people who are trying to act like they have oss projects but don't do things to help the project?
Jan 26 22:03:30 <rwhitby> sugardave: I'm assuming "openwash" is a conjunction of "open source" and "white wash"
Jan 26 22:04:30 <rwhitby> which is quite a different assertion to "open sourcing done slower than what I'm used to"
Jan 26 22:07:06 <rwhitby> erupnu: hey, good to see you on IRC, mate.
Jan 26 22:07:23 <erupnu> rwhitby: where you been? I been here a while now ;)
Jan 26 22:07:44 <rwhitby> erupnu: sleeping. it's morning here on the other side of the world ;)
Jan 26 22:07:57 <rwhitby> erupnu: they did their announcement 6am yesterday here.
Jan 26 22:08:04 <erupnu> rwhitby: it was a busy day yesterday afterall
Jan 26 22:09:08 <rwhitby> erupnu: awesome response time on those howto's BTW. I figured something like "yeah, tomorrow or the next day" would be a reasonable timeframe, but you pumped them out immediately.
Jan 26 22:09:32 <rwhitby> that's gonna be a big help to the other devs
Jan 26 22:09:35 <erupnu> rwhitby: I took a 5 hr energy and just got to work
Jan 26 22:10:02 <sugardave> yeah, really great stuff...thanks!
Jan 26 22:10:13 <rwhitby> erupnu: and it really sets the tone of good open collaboration from day one
Jan 26 22:10:36 <erupnu> rwhitby: :) as soon as I get my Android version ready, Ill post that
Jan 26 22:10:44 <rwhitby> [which I think is more important than the actual technical content ;)]
Jan 26 22:11:41 <_minego> Yeah those where VERY helpful. Thank you very much erupnu
Jan 26 22:23:40 <rwatkins> the other one you're gonna quickly want is Ian Becks guide to weinre
Jan 26 22:24:19 <PatrickC> time to see if this windows app builds nicely or not
Jan 26 22:24:19 <_minego> what is weinre?
Jan 26 22:24:39 <rwatkins> the emulators are dog slow so an inspector for the device to figure out whats broken in their version of webkit is handy
Jan 26 22:24:42 <rwatkins> http://beckism.com/2011/04/remote-debug-webos/
Jan 26 22:25:13 <rwatkins> essentially webkit inspector that you can run against the instance on the device, but inspect on your PC.
Jan 26 22:25:24 <_minego> Oh, I've seen that. Very cool stuff.
Jan 26 22:26:09 <rwatkins> ya, tring to explore an event object with cyclical references w/o it .. less than fun.
Jan 26 22:27:24 <_minego> hehe
Jan 26 22:29:08 <erupnu> weinre is nice
Jan 26 22:31:16 <PatrickC> downloading MSI (thanks to the instructions by erupnu)
Jan 26 22:43:54 <PuffTheMagic> when i get a changed event from an enyo Input, is there a way to find out what the value was before it changed?
Jan 26 22:47:21 <PatrickC> time to work on dashboard mode
Jan 26 22:52:45 <erupnu> PuffTheMagic: often wondered this myself
Jan 26 22:58:51 <PatrickC> anyone know why i would be getting this error with enyo.Dashboard ?
Jan 26 22:58:52 <PatrickC> http://pastebin.com/b3GwvSHf
Jan 26 22:59:08 <PatrickC> the dashboard it creates is also all white
Jan 26 23:19:12 <rwatkins> by default Dashboards on 2.x are white, unless you create your own.
Jan 26 23:19:38 <PatrickC> this is on 3.0.5
Jan 26 23:19:52 <PatrickC> and im wondering why it is erroring out (and not even launching the app)
Jan 26 23:19:52 <rwatkins> then you broke something
Jan 26 23:19:58 <PatrickC> yeah. not sure wha
Jan 26 23:20:00 <PatrickC> what*
Jan 26 23:20:13 <PatrickC> i did an almost exact copy/paste from the webos101 article
Jan 27 00:18:49 <rwatkins> nice article on webOSnation :)
Jan 27 00:19:00 <rwatkins> http://www.webosnation.com/paper-mache-android
Jan 27 00:45:08 <PatrickC> congrats rwatkins
Jan 27 01:11:03 <rwatkins> thx
Jan 27 01:15:04 <preoccupied> quick question....does anyone know how to get scroller object from a virtual list object?
Jan 27 01:21:21 <rwatkins> preoccupied: it breaks the encapsulation, but its the first control of the VirtualList
Jan 27 01:22:17 <preoccupied> ok thanks
Jan 27 01:22:25 <preoccupied> what do you mean that it breaks the encapsulation?
Jan 27 01:22:38 <rwatkins> this.$.virtualList.$.scroller
Jan 27 01:23:01 <preoccupied> oh nice....thanks
Jan 27 01:23:24 <rwatkins> meaning you're digging into the internals of a component, rather than its exposed interfaces.
Jan 27 01:26:40 <preoccupied> is there a quick way to look at all the properties of a particular object?
Jan 27 01:26:56 <rwatkins> ideally you'd extend the components VirtualList is built on in a similar way, but expose the functionality you need to manipulate the scroller in your custom kind, rahther than reach in and much around with a specific internal implemenation
Jan 27 01:27:15 <preoccupied> usually, i try to dig through the DOM inspector on chrome...
Jan 27 01:27:25 <preoccupied> but it doesn't expose any of the methods
Jan 27 01:27:34 <rwatkins> just get a ref to the object at some point and log it
Jan 27 01:28:15 <rwatkins> I usually drop a this.log(this.$.componentIWant) in the ready method of the kind definition
Jan 27 01:28:51 <rwatkins> then go exploring in the console
Jan 27 01:29:50 <preoccupied> ok
Jan 27 01:29:54 <preoccupied> thanks
Jan 27 01:30:41 <rwatkins> you can also just go browse the source for the entire framework
Jan 27 01:33:18 <preoccupied> ok
Jan 27 01:33:32 <preoccupied> hmm...it doesn't seem like the builtin scroller acts like a real scroller
Jan 27 01:34:08 <rwatkins> https://github.com/enyojs/enyo-1.0/blob/master/framework/source/palm/list/VirtualList.js
Jan 27 01:35:56 <rwatkins> well its a virtual list - the size of the lists is unknown.
Jan 27 01:36:42 <rwatkins> so its not like you can just shove all the items in there and scrollTo() any position.
Jan 27 01:38:41 <preoccupied> i'm actually trying to scroll to the top when I update the list with new items
Jan 27 01:39:25 <rwatkins> then just do myList.punt();
Jan 27 01:40:51 <rwatkins> its technically a protected method, but since 1.0 is EOL'ed its not gonna change.
Jan 27 01:48:25 <preoccupied> ok...thanks!
Jan 27 01:48:28 <preoccupied> that works
Jan 27 01:51:19 <_minego> I just found (and fixed) the weirdest issue in chrome
Jan 27 01:51:28 <_minego> With iamges
Jan 27 01:51:32 <_minego> err images even
Jan 27 01:52:14 <_minego> I have images for each playing card (so usually 52 on screen) and if I set the img src property to a different image it works fine. If I set it back to the same image then the image would disappear.
Jan 27 01:52:33 <_minego> Took me way too long to figure otu what was happening. It doesn't happen every time. It was very sparatic.
Jan 27 01:53:27 <rwatkins> so .. if its currently src=9h.jpg and you say img.src = "9h.jpg" .. it goes away?
Jan 27 01:53:42 <_minego> Yeah
Jan 27 01:53:52 <rwatkins> huh.
Jan 27 01:53:56 <_minego> you also happen to have my naming convention right hehe
Jan 27 01:54:07 <_minego> Yeah it was very weird. Like I said, it didn't happen all the time.
Jan 27 01:54:13 <rwatkins> would seem a decent convention for a deck of cards. :)
Jan 27 01:54:20 <_minego> Yup
Jan 27 01:55:03 <_minego> The beta for chrome is coming along pretty nicely. If you'd like to try it: http://www.minego.net/SolitaireUniverse/
Jan 27 01:55:04 <rwatkins> enyo Image kind?
Jan 27 01:55:15 <_minego> no, my own images
Jan 27 01:55:47 <_minego> I was using the enyo image kind early on when writing the game but I was having some trouble with it. I don't remember now what the problem was, and it is working with my own image objects so I think I'll leave it :)
Jan 27 01:56:54 <_minego> Testing for multiple platforms is getting... tedious. I have chrome, the webOS emulator and my TouchPad booted to ICS that I'm testing with right now :)
Jan 27 01:57:28 <_minego> I *think* I just fixed my last big bug. Time to hand it to beta testers and see how it goes.
Jan 27 01:58:00 <rwatkins> nice scaling
Jan 27 01:58:18 <_minego> thanks
Jan 27 01:58:32 <rwatkins> just beware high dpi on android devices.
Jan 27 01:58:48 <_minego> Oooh, I bet that is part of my problem on android
Jan 27 01:58:59 <_minego> Dragging the cards is painful on android
Jan 27 01:59:18 <rwatkins> 1280x720 on a galaxy nexus is still a 4.6" screen
Jan 27 01:59:18 <_minego> I'll have to scale them down and see how much of a difference it makes
Jan 27 01:59:38 <_minego> I'm targeting tablets only with this for now
Jan 27 01:59:57 <_minego> The layouts and cards don't work well on a phone screen. Too hard to see.
Jan 27 02:00:19 <_minego> Eventually I'd like to take the layouts from my mojo version of the game to make it work on phones
Jan 27 02:00:20 <rwatkins> ya, i wanted to do that, but if you phonegap target 3.x+ you lose the menu button in the OS UI.
Jan 27 02:00:48 <_minego> I can live with that. I can do a soft button for the menu.
Jan 27 02:01:15 <_minego> I'm going to try it on a kindle fire soon though and see how it does, so I'll need to support 2.x for that.
Jan 27 02:01:39 <_minego> My plan is chrome store first, then ipad and then spend some more time with android.
Jan 27 02:02:04 <_minego> I have a beta tester with a galaxy nexus so I can experiment a bit with that.
Jan 27 02:04:13 <rwatkins> sounds liek a good plan - i think perf on android is likely the worst
Jan 27 02:04:27 <_minego> Yeah, that's what I've seen.
Jan 27 02:04:47 <_minego> I haven't run on an ipad in phonegap yet, but ipad in the browser ran perfectly last I tried
Jan 27 02:05:01 <_minego> I have heard that ipad in phonegap is a bit slower than in the browser, but still much better than android.
Jan 27 02:05:03 <rwatkins> though conveniently it packed the most punch and allowed me to publish in essentially 30 seconds after the announcement. :)
Jan 27 02:05:29 <_minego> Yeah, if it was just a bit slow I would do android first
Jan 27 02:05:34 <_minego> Sadly it is more than a bit slow
Jan 27 02:07:01 <_minego> I had been working on android builds for a few weeks before the announcement
Jan 27 02:07:24 <_minego> My plan was to release as soon as it was announced too... but I just didn't feel comfortable with it being that slow
Jan 27 02:08:00 <_minego> I'm going to try with a smaller image set later tonight and see if it makes a difference. It won't look as nice but if it is faster then I can live with that.
Jan 27 02:08:28 <rwatkins> Most of the perf is fine for Paper Mache but there is just something wrong in the dragging of scrollers or sliders.  not clear yet what it is.  and its inconsistent.
Jan 27 02:09:13 <_minego> I think it might be related to the dragging problems I'm seeing with cards. I see the same problem in lists. I think it might be related to mouse events.
Jan 27 02:09:36 <rwatkins> yea, because when I call scrollTo() its fast enough.  its the drag interaction thats poor.
Jan 27 02:10:17 <rwatkins> the "paged" mode in Paper mache is swipe to turn the page, which is still just a big scroller, so the movement is just via scrollTo() rather than the users drag events.
Jan 27 02:10:41 <rwatkins> and thats fast, but responding to touch events, not consistent.
Jan 27 02:11:48 <_minego> Yeah
Jan 27 02:12:02 <_minego> That is similar to what I'm seeing
Jan 27 02:12:12 <_minego> The touch events don't fire right away, and then I get a bunch all at once
Jan 27 02:12:24 <_minego> So if you drag cards around it will still send all the events, just not at the right time
Jan 27 02:12:50 <_minego> I wish it would just skip the extras... that would just be a bit choppy. Instead the cards move in the path your finger moved but after a delay
Jan 27 02:14:46 <_minego> I hope (and assume) that android will get more attention for enyo 2.0. I may wait and release for android then.
Jan 27 02:19:05 <_minego> damn it, the bug with cards dissappearing is still happening.... GAH
Jan 27 02:19:37 <_minego> I hate chrome so badly right now
Jan 27 02:28:27 <_minego> Oh I may have found it
Jan 27 02:28:29 <_minego> crosses fingers
Jan 27 02:29:04 <_minego> nope
Jan 27 02:29:07 * _minego keeps looking
Jan 27 02:58:03 <erupnu> _minego: ?
Jan 27 02:58:12 <_minego> erupnu: yes?
Jan 27 02:58:21 <erupnu> chrome issues?
Jan 27 02:58:23 <PatrickC> hola _minego
Jan 27 02:58:30 <_minego> Yeah... and I seem to be making it worse
Jan 27 02:58:42 <_minego> Images are disapearing in chrome
Jan 27 02:58:47 <erupnu> _minego: the old developers solution -- take a nap
Jan 27 02:58:51 <_minego> I can inspect them and they look correct...
Jan 27 02:59:03 <_minego> That is probably a good idea at this point
Jan 27 02:59:22 <_minego> This is driving me nuts. The element looks perfect in the inspector... it just doesn't show up...
Jan 27 02:59:29 <erupnu> _minego: always works for me, so frustrated dealing with a problem, then, after a break, you just solve it
Jan 27 02:59:46 <_minego> Yeah I think I'm going to do that shortly
Jan 27 02:59:53 <erupnu> Ohh, THAT problem. Yeah, those suck
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Fri Jan 27 02:59:57 2012

**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Jan 27 02:59:58 2012
Jan 27 03:00:03 <_minego> Have you seen it?
Jan 27 03:00:13 <PatrickC> i hate those
Jan 27 03:00:23 <PatrickC> i feel like thats whats wrong with my pre2 but i know it isnt :/
Jan 27 03:00:36 <erupnu> I have had it before, element is fine, just not showing
Jan 27 03:00:45 <_minego> Yeah exactly
Jan 27 03:01:02 <_minego> For whatever reason I'm now seeing it frequently
Jan 27 03:06:42 <rwatkins> my old trick when that kinda rendering crap shows up is to fiddle witht the dom again to get it re-paint.
Jan 27 03:06:48 <rwatkins> add and remove a class or something
Jan 27 03:07:33 <_minego> I was just trying that :)
Jan 27 03:07:35 <rwatkins> though in those cases the issue also usually goes away as soon as there is a mouse event as well.
Jan 27 03:07:40 <_minego> I have broken something else now though hehe
Jan 27 03:07:55 <_minego> A mouse event does not fix this
Jan 27 03:08:02 <rwatkins> i was able to get Luna to crash regularly by doing that.  adding and removing classes from the body tag.
Jan 27 03:08:41 <_minego> hehe
Jan 27 03:54:48 <_minego> Okay making a bit of progress... I have card animations working again
Jan 27 03:55:01 <_minego> and cards only disappear if they get flipped...
Jan 27 03:55:06 <erupnu> 30 min break do it for ya?
Jan 27 03:55:16 <_minego> No I've been working this whole time (like an idiot)
Jan 27 03:55:49 <_minego> I rewrote a bunch of code to clean it up, and now most of that is working perfectly
Jan 27 03:56:05 <_minego> There is only one case that isn't working and I think the problem is in my code, not the chrome bug. I'm not sure though.
Jan 27 03:59:47 <_minego> The remaining bug happens when a card is flipped. Luckily that doesn't happen in freecell so I'm going to take a short break and play some freecell to relax :)
Jan 27 03:59:57 <erupnu> lol
Jan 27 04:17:37 <preoccupied> i have another question for enyo devs...
Jan 27 04:17:57 <preoccupied> is there a way to have an element that i can put html in?
Jan 27 04:18:00 <preoccupied> like a container?
Jan 27 04:21:08 <_minego> like a webview?
Jan 27 04:21:15 <preoccupied> i was thinking about the htmlcontainer....but I don't think you can dynamically load html content into it
Jan 27 04:21:23 <preoccupied> not exactly...i'm not loading a webpage...
Jan 27 04:21:36 <_minego> You can access the DOM and create your own nodes
Jan 27 04:21:53 <preoccupied> i'm getting html content from an ajax request.....
Jan 27 04:21:53 <_minego> You can even create your own node and then set innerHTML if you really want
Jan 27 04:22:10 <preoccupied> ok
Jan 27 04:22:41 <preoccupied> i guess my only question is how to put that in a kind?
Jan 27 04:23:07 <_minego> Call hasNode() on an enyo object after the kind has rendered and it will return the DOM node
Jan 27 04:23:11 <_minego> Then you can do what you want with it
Jan 27 04:23:16 <preoccupied> oh, awesome
Jan 27 04:23:17 <preoccupied> thanks
Jan 27 04:23:49 <_minego> If your kind has a function called "rendered" then it will be called once it has rendered
Jan 27 04:23:57 <_minego> That is probably where you want to access the DOM
Jan 27 04:28:43 <preoccupied> ok
Jan 27 04:28:55 <preoccupied> yeah, i just tested it and it worked perfectly
Jan 27 04:29:01 <_minego> sweet
Jan 27 04:29:30 <preoccupied> i like enyo, but sometimes it's hard to translate my HTML/CSS/JS background into enyo syntax
Jan 27 04:30:49 <_minego> Yeah it can be at times
Jan 27 04:36:49 <Roy-Pre101> preoccupied: It maybe be a bit harder without a UI toolkit to get past all that.
Jan 27 04:42:04 <preoccupied> oh...i'm actually using enyo 1.0
Jan 27 04:42:20 <preoccupied> i figure i can update my app when enyo 2.0 gets a UI toolkit
Jan 27 04:48:32 <Roy-Pre101> Ah, well, in that case, it helps to try to let go of your old HTML/CSS/JS ways and work with the flexboxes.
Jan 27 04:48:51 <preoccupied> yeah, i'm trying to do that
Jan 27 04:49:25 <preoccupied> but i don't see why it doesn't allow html code to be put in a box
Jan 27 04:49:42 <preoccupied> it's pretty much text with minimal styling...
Jan 27 05:00:25 <sugardave> you can't use an HtmlContent kind?
Jan 27 05:06:34 <erupnu> You can put HTML into most things, just set allowHtml: true
Jan 27 05:31:43 <preoccupied> erupnu: thanks....that worked!
Jan 27 05:32:16 <preoccupied> erupnu: i saw it in the docs...but I think i mistyped it and it didn't work initially
Jan 27 05:49:47 <erupnu> preoccupied: yeah, it's case sensitive. tripped me a few times too
Jan 27 06:16:30 <erupnu> Running an Enyo 1.0 App on Windows Phone 7 (with PhoneGap): http://forums.enyojs.com/discussion/19/running-an-enyo-1-0-app-on-windows-phone-7-with-phonegap
Jan 27 06:16:42 <erupnu> Since the question HAS been asked before...
Jan 27 07:31:43 <PatrickC> _minego, ong
Jan 27 07:31:46 <PatrickC> ping*
Jan 27 07:31:50 <_minego> sup
Jan 27 07:32:15 <PatrickC> see PM
Jan 27 15:37:32 <_minego> wow... I finally got it working
Jan 27 15:37:52 <_minego> The highlighted cards where the trick
Jan 27 15:37:57 <_minego> They always appeared...
Jan 27 15:38:05 <_minego> They have a border image for the shadow
Jan 27 15:38:20 <_minego> I added a blank border image to non highlighted cards and now all cards appear properly
Jan 27 15:46:54 <_minego> erupnu: You where right. A break was what I needed. I got it working within minutes of waking up this morning.
Jan 27 15:48:29 <_minego> The upshot of all this mess is that I got a better image preloader working, with a progress bar. That will be helpful on slower connections.
Jan 27 15:48:38 <_minego> I actually cleaned up a lot of code while looking for this too
Jan 27 15:53:39 <_minego> Luckily I only have to set this image for chrome so it shouldn't slow down devices
Jan 27 16:16:16 <erupnu> _minego: It always works my friend, always
Jan 27 16:16:41 <_minego> erupnu: Next time maybe I'll listen hehe
Jan 27 16:17:12 <erupnu> _minego: doubtful, thats why we get into those spots, we stop listening!
Jan 27 16:17:22 <_minego> erupnu: very true
Jan 27 16:27:34 <_minego> and now I broke something again *sigh*
Jan 27 16:30:23 <_minego> this is more minor though. Just fallout from reworking other code last night.
Jan 27 16:34:29 <_minego> crap, I need to get to work
Jan 27 16:41:12 <erupnu> Morning Lisa
Jan 27 20:36:03 <bhuey> uh not that many folks here
Jan 27 20:37:41 <sugardave> there's one more now!
Jan 27 20:38:50 <halfhalo> or is there...
Jan 27 20:48:37 <bhuey> I like the web site
Jan 27 22:01:15 <_minego> I think I got all of the problems I had yesterday, and all the fallout from them resolved.
Jan 27 22:01:28 <_minego> If any of you want to try it the latest is at http://home.minego.net/SolitaireUniverse/
Jan 27 22:05:16 <_minego> It even seems to be a bit snappier on android now
Jan 27 22:05:20 <_minego> (just a bit though)
Jan 27 22:15:45 <wrea> thanks, curing my boredom :)
Jan 27 22:16:37 <_minego> haha
Jan 27 22:16:39 <_minego> glad I could help
Jan 27 23:41:26 <_minego> hi kids
Jan 27 23:41:44 <wrea> wb
Jan 27 23:44:00 <_minego> Did I miss anything fun?
Jan 27 23:44:52 <wrea> you missed absolutely nothing
Jan 27 23:45:18 <wrea> dont look at me for anything fun or fun related either :P
Jan 27 23:50:45 <PuffTheMagic> is there a way to switch html files within a current window
Jan 27 23:51:24 <PuffTheMagic> or destroy the current body and rederinto a new one
Jan 27 23:51:52 <_minego> On which platform?
Jan 27 23:51:58 <PuffTheMagic> webos
Jan 27 23:52:02 <PuffTheMagic> ebyo
Jan 27 23:52:05 <PuffTheMagic> enyo
Jan 27 23:52:22 <_minego> Well enyo in a browser you can just set browser.location
Jan 27 23:52:33 <_minego> On webOS you can do that but it opens the URL in the browser, not your app
Jan 27 23:52:59 <PuffTheMagic> i just want to swap the content of the current window with out having to create a new window
Jan 27 23:53:26 <Adora> _minego!
Jan 27 23:53:31 <Adora> give me one card draw!
Jan 27 23:53:34 <_minego> Adora!
Jan 27 23:53:34 <Adora> I suck at three card draw!
Jan 27 23:53:39 <_minego> haha
Jan 27 23:53:46 <_minego> 1 card is a paid game :)
Jan 27 23:53:56 <_minego> I should enable them all while it is in beta though
Jan 27 23:54:02 <_minego> one sec, I'll turn them all on
Jan 27 23:54:03 <Adora> yes
Jan 27 23:54:05 <PuffTheMagic> maybe destroyComponents will work
Jan 27 23:54:09 <Adora> what if 1 card has a bug?!
Jan 27 23:54:16 <Adora> I could test and find out!
Jan 27 23:54:21 <_minego> You've convinced me. I'm turning it on.
Jan 27 23:54:25 <Adora> \o/
Jan 27 23:55:14 <PuffTheMagic> this.destroyComponents()
Jan 27 23:55:14 <PuffTheMagic> 		this.createComponent({kind: "wTermApp"})
Jan 27 23:55:14 <PuffTheMagic> 		this.render()
Jan 27 23:55:17 <PuffTheMagic> ^^ did the trick
Jan 27 23:55:25 <wrea> lol
Jan 27 23:55:33 <wrea> Adora, I was wanting 1 card too
Jan 27 23:56:19 <_minego> refresh
Jan 27 23:56:29 <_minego> All games are now enabled while in beta
Jan 27 23:56:58 <_minego> and if you want all games you can buy them on the TouchPad too :)
Jan 27 23:57:20 <Adora> that's what sucks the most about enyo going xplat
Jan 27 23:57:25 <wrea> I started playing because my scanner is making me angry
Jan 27 23:57:26 <Adora> I"m used to getting everything for free on webOS  =]
Jan 27 23:57:30 <wrea> lol
Jan 27 23:57:32 <_minego> haha
Jan 27 23:58:31 <_minego> Adora: Are you telling me that you haven't paid for Solitaire Universe? I'm shocked and offended! (okay not really)
Jan 27 23:58:43 <sugardave> PuffTheMagic: it won't just let you renderInto(document.body) a new control?
Jan 27 23:59:00 <sugardave> it should blast everything in there
Jan 27 23:59:22 <sugardave> oh, you solved it
Jan 27 23:59:53 * PuffTheMagic wonders if #webos is now dead
Jan 28 00:00:16 <scoutcamper> PuffTheMagic, if not dead its surely wounded.
Jan 28 00:00:30 <_minego> I guess I shoudl go read up on the chrome store payment API now. WEEE!
Jan 28 00:01:33 <_minego> Adora: So how do you like Solitaire Universe in the browser? Any feedback?
Jan 28 00:01:57 <Adora> works great so far
Jan 28 00:02:02 <_minego> good
Jan 28 00:02:03 <Adora> I think my biggest problem is screen size
Jan 28 00:02:09 <_minego> Oh?
Jan 28 00:02:18 <Adora> because if it's not native touchpad size, then the graphics look jaggy
Jan 28 00:02:22 <Adora> well
Jan 28 00:02:38 <Adora> the graphics are jaggy, and I think it's because the browser window isn't touchpad sized
Jan 28 00:02:42 <Adora> put it that way
Jan 28 00:02:42 <_minego> really? They should scale nicely.
Jan 28 00:02:55 <_minego> Are you using chrome or safari?
Jan 28 00:03:00 <Adora> chrome/mac
Jan 28 00:03:04 <Adora> I'll send a screenshot
Jan 28 00:03:13 <_minego> Interesing. Thanks.
Jan 28 00:03:54 <_minego> How big is your browser window?
Jan 28 00:04:28 <scoutcamper> _minego, if i go play it on my 60' plasma i would bet the graphics look odd
Jan 28 00:04:33 <Adora> https://skitch.com/lisabrewster/gh1ec/solitaire
Jan 28 00:05:05 <Adora> also, I'd closed the tab, re-opened it, and my game was still there
Jan 28 00:05:07 <Adora> hehehee
Jan 28 00:05:11 <Adora> wasn't expecting that
Jan 28 00:05:20 <_minego> Hehe yeah, it auto-resumes
Jan 28 00:05:26 <_minego> I just added that
Jan 28 00:06:00 <_minego> I did that mainly for android and iOS. In my android testing so far it is really hard to predict when it will relaunch the app vs resuming it.
Jan 28 00:06:11 <Adora> logging off for a bit, gotta go get my car from the shop
Jan 28 00:06:23 <_minego> whow, how big is your monitor? hehe
Jan 28 00:06:35 <Adora> (interesting predicament: they were happy to drop me off at my office, but refuse to come pick me back up?)
Jan 28 00:06:42 <Adora> 27"
Jan 28 00:06:46 <Adora> anyway, lates!
Jan 28 00:06:52 <_minego> Thanks
Jan 28 00:09:11 <scoutcamper> _minego, im debating trying it on my 60', if i do ill make sure to take a screenshot
Jan 28 00:09:36 <_minego> Please do. I'd love to see it.
Jan 28 00:12:05 <wrea> Darn only have a 40" to try it on :P
Jan 28 00:13:57 <halfhalo> people with their 27" high res imacs.  or thunderbold displays
Jan 28 00:14:21 <wrea> ive never actually used the hdmi out on my laptop yet
Jan 28 00:14:25 <_minego> lol
Jan 28 00:14:44 <_minego> I have 2 screens that are both 1920x1080... but that is nothing compared to a 27"
Jan 28 00:14:56 <scoutcamper> firing up the 60' and its pc
Jan 28 00:15:34 <_minego> scoutcamper: I'm thinking about porting to google TV at some point, so it may be on a lot of large screens.
Jan 28 00:15:45 <_minego> I probably need to add keyboard support for moving cards if I do that.
Jan 28 00:16:09 <_minego> One of the best parts about enyo being open sourced is that it gives me an excuse to buy more toys
Jan 28 00:16:20 <scoutcamper> _minego, :)
Jan 28 00:16:36 <halfhalo> my excuse is "shiny!"
Jan 28 00:16:45 <halfhalo> although i have no justified a thunderbolt display yet
Jan 28 00:16:48 <_minego> That is just as valid
Jan 28 00:16:52 <halfhalo> mainly because it only has one input
Jan 28 00:17:23 <_minego> I don't have a thunderbolt display because I don't have any macs any more, except for a mac mini
Jan 28 00:20:49 <halfhalo> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824001523 hmmmmm
Jan 28 00:21:29 <_minego> oooh lots of pixels
Jan 28 00:21:31 <_minego> I do love pixels
Jan 28 00:21:34 <_minego> lots and lots of them
Jan 28 00:21:44 <_minego> that is too much for that resolution though
Jan 28 00:21:58 <halfhalo> nein!
Jan 28 00:22:15 <_minego> Huh? It has way more than 9 pixels.
Jan 28 00:33:09 <_minego> I guess my joke was too dumb and it scared everyone away
Jan 28 00:39:46 <scoutcamper> _minego, http://http://reddinglights.com/minego.jpg
Jan 28 00:39:59 <scoutcamper> errr
Jan 28 00:40:00 <scoutcamper> http://reddinglights.com/minego.jpg
Jan 28 00:40:17 <_minego> not bad
Jan 28 00:40:49 <_minego> The images could scale a bit nicer for bigger screens... but I'm not overly worried about it right now
Jan 28 00:41:12 <scoutcamper> thats in latest chrome
Jan 28 00:41:44 <_minego> So you're a spider fan? Very few of my beta testers play spider.
Jan 28 00:41:54 <scoutcamper> i love spider
Jan 28 00:42:08 <_minego> Good :) I like it but I suck at it, which makes it hard to test hehe
Jan 28 00:42:51 <scoutcamper> lol
Jan 28 00:42:55 <scoutcamper> it works goof
Jan 28 00:42:57 <scoutcamper> good*
Jan 28 00:43:02 <_minego> cool
Jan 28 00:43:27 <_minego> I added 2 suit spider and 1 suit spider just so I could test it hehe
Jan 28 00:48:31 <Adora> _minego: also, it would be pretty awesome if you put your game in the enyo forums with the tip about saving state on android
Jan 28 00:48:57 <Adora> and iOS
Jan 28 00:49:23 <_minego> I can try to write something up. I'm not sure how easy my method will work in other apps.
Jan 28 00:49:49 <Adora> even just making others aware of the issue will be helpful
Jan 28 00:49:52 <_minego> I basically store the current state of the cards and the history in local storage and then just reload that on startup.
Jan 28 00:49:59 <_minego> True. I'll try to write something tonight.
Jan 28 00:50:01 <Adora> webOS folks don't have to deal with that  =]
Jan 28 00:50:42 <_minego> Yeah, it was rather annoying that I had to. webOS has spoiled us :)
Jan 28 00:54:58 <_minego> man google wants a lot of info to add an app to the store
Jan 28 01:06:22 <_minego> *sigh* my graphics guy is busy, but I need graphics!
Jan 28 01:21:05 <PatrickC> _minego, what do u need?
Jan 28 02:42:11 <_minego> oh fun, time for oauth. meh :(
Jan 28 02:42:30 <_minego> I think I may call it a night and work on that tomorrow
Jan 28 02:48:33 <_minego> I'm tempted to start using a preprocessor on my javascript
Jan 28 02:51:58 <halfhalo> I run it through uglify
Jan 28 02:52:04 <halfhalo> and uglycss
Jan 28 02:52:09 <_minego> lol
Jan 28 02:52:13 <halfhalo> and some custom stuff
Jan 28 02:52:47 <_minego> I'm tempted to use gcc just for a C style preprocessor
Jan 28 02:52:52 <_minego> I'm a C coder in real life
Jan 28 02:53:10 <_minego> I want to be able to do stuff like #ifdef DEBUG
Jan 28 02:53:47 <halfhalo> BAD TOUCH
Jan 28 02:53:54 <halfhalo> err, BAD PING
Jan 28 02:54:04 <_minego> bad?
Jan 28 02:54:06 <_minego> how was it bad?
Jan 28 02:54:20 <halfhalo> made loud noise
Jan 28 02:54:35 <_minego> lol
Jan 28 02:55:10 <halfhalo> Lulz flood control
Jan 28 02:55:13 <_minego> hehe
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Sat Jan 28 03:00:00 2012