**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Jun 01 02:59:58 2012
Jun 01 03:55:29 <summatusmentis> lupos: spell it "tapped" though, because otherwise it suggests that you used scotch tape somewhere :)
Jun 01 06:28:09 <sugardave> hi Adora!  just got re-screend in
Jun 01 06:28:24 <sugardave> we burned it down at Fluent, yo
Jun 01 06:29:25 <Adora> yeah?
Jun 01 06:29:36 <Adora> I wish I could have made it back, but it just wasn't happening
Jun 01 06:29:45 <sugardave> hell yeah, everyone we talked to was pretty impressed/excited
Jun 01 06:30:05 <sugardave> we even got one company to consider scrapping their sproutcore re-write of their product and potentially do it with Enyo
Jun 01 06:30:41 <sugardave> Adora: did you get to make it to the women who code session or whatever it was called last night?
Jun 01 06:30:43 <Adora> awesome!
Jun 01 06:30:56 <Adora> yeah, gave a quick pitch
Jun 01 06:31:02 <sugardave> sweet
Jun 01 06:31:09 <sugardave> feeling better yet?
Jun 01 06:31:24 <Adora> but couldnt mingle much, voice crapped out
Jun 01 06:31:47 <Adora> better in a relative sense, yes
Jun 01 06:31:48 <sugardave> yeah, I'm feeling it in my chest now...hoping it's just too much talking and not getting sick *blah*
Jun 01 06:31:54 <Adora> but not in an absolute sense
Jun 01 06:32:08 <sugardave> sure, I hope you get better soon...hate being sick
Jun 01 06:32:34 <Adora> seems like it's just a cough and easily fatigued now
Jun 01 06:32:46 <sugardave> all downhill from there ;)
Jun 01 06:32:49 <Adora> will be all better next week, I'm sure
Jun 01 06:33:25 <Adora> assisted by a constant supply of dayquil, of course
Jun 01 06:33:36 <sugardave> heh, yeah...I might need to grab some tomorrow
Jun 01 06:33:49 <sugardave> I'm just going to kick it in the room relaxing and re-packing
Jun 01 06:33:59 <sugardave> I'm pretty beat :)
Jun 01 06:34:01 <Adora> good idea
Jun 01 06:34:10 <Adora> the past couple weeks have been intense
Jun 01 06:34:17 <sugardave> indeed
Jun 01 06:34:38 <sugardave> Ben, Enda, and I will be at TX.js in a couple of weeks
Jun 01 06:34:43 <Adora> speaking of kicking it, my battery's gonna die in 60 secs
Jun 01 06:34:45 <Adora> brb
Jun 01 12:09:58 <rwatkins> he's gone, but the workaround for the dashboards was to clone the dashboard html from the framework and set a background color.
Jun 01 14:51:47 <summatusmentis> is there a way to get a popup to properly size to dynamically added values?
Jun 01 15:17:01 <madnificent> summatusmentis: this.$.popup.addStyles( "width: 100px; height: 80px;" ); ?
Jun 01 15:28:31 <summatusmentis> madnificent: I mean, yes...
Jun 01 15:30:05 <summatusmentis> I'd prefer something fits to the content, but perhaps that's not easily do-able
Jun 01 15:33:26 <madnificent> does it set the width and the height manually now?
Jun 01 15:35:32 <summatusmentis> nope
Jun 01 15:35:54 <summatusmentis> but applying width to something semi-reasonable seems to work
Jun 01 15:36:34 <summatusmentis> or, work well-enough
Jun 01 15:45:12 <sugardave> enyo 2?
Jun 01 15:45:40 <sugardave> if yes, try running .resized() on the popup after you change its contents
Jun 01 15:47:17 <summatusmentis> yes
Jun 01 15:49:16 <summatusmentis> I wish that doesn't seem to do what I want
Jun 01 15:49:40 <summatusmentis> http://pastebin.com/WgRVTmms
Jun 01 15:49:45 <EricBlade> http://imgur.com/1vwna,dANfM
Jun 01 15:50:01 <summatusmentis> pview is the kind defined as the component of the popup
Jun 01 15:50:31 <sugardave> NO DOUBLE $ !!!!!!
Jun 01 15:50:36 * sugardave cries.
Jun 01 15:50:37 <summatusmentis> wut
Jun 01 15:50:44 <summatusmentis> oh
Jun 01 15:50:49 <summatusmentis> is there something better?
Jun 01 15:51:04 <sugardave> you BROKE encapsualtion, I hope you're happy! :P
Jun 01 15:51:25 <summatusmentis> I'm sure I've been breaking encapsulation all over the place
Jun 01 15:51:34 <sugardave> not better, it's just better to use events/methods to keep components from knowing about each other
Jun 01 15:51:48 <summatusmentis> sugardave> not better, it's just better
Jun 01 15:51:55 <sugardave> yeah yeah :P
Jun 01 15:52:43 <summatusmentis> I see what you're saying
Jun 01 15:52:45 <sugardave> would it be cool to put your app in a jsfiddle that I can look at?
Jun 01 15:52:53 <sugardave> for the resizing thing?
Jun 01 15:53:02 <summatusmentis> it's broken up kind of oddly
Jun 01 15:53:06 <sugardave> I'm not sure if they have our b4 code available though
Jun 01 15:53:09 <summatusmentis> there's files all over the place
Jun 01 15:53:22 <sugardave> ah, right
Jun 01 15:53:33 <summatusmentis> so, I'm not sure that'll get you what you want
Jun 01 15:54:23 <sugardave> because you generally would call resized on the actual control that has changed content, so this.$.pview.$.taskValue had its content changed, but you ran resized on the popup (because that's what I told you to do :)
Jun 01 15:57:04 <summatusmentis> indeed, and I assume resized() doesn't propagate down?
Jun 01 15:57:34 <sugardave> I don't THINK so....still delving into the ins and outs of the framework
Jun 01 15:58:38 <summatusmentis> hrm
Jun 01 15:59:15 <summatusmentis> regarding events/methods, do events propagate data?
Jun 01 16:00:43 <sugardave> indeed
Jun 01 16:01:02 <sugardave> this.doMyEvent({someData: someValue});
Jun 01 16:01:33 <summatusmentis> I thought the proper way to trigger an event was this.bubble("onEventName");
Jun 01 16:01:39 <summatusmentis> or this.waterfall();
Jun 01 16:02:07 <sugardave> for going up, the .doEvent thing is preferred
Jun 01 16:02:17 <sugardave> you need to be careful throwing waterfall and bubble around
Jun 01 16:02:29 <summatusmentis> wait, why?
Jun 01 16:02:30 <EricBlade> don't go throwing waterfalls
Jun 01 16:02:42 <sugardave> if you do use bubble, it's bubble("eventName", {prop: val});
Jun 01 16:03:09 <summatusmentis> I wish these things were flipping documented
Jun 01 16:03:14 <sugardave> summatusmentis: this is just something I heard from core guys, I think they thought I didn't know what I was doing when they first reviewed my sample app code ;)
Jun 01 16:03:21 <sugardave> EricBlade: lol
Jun 01 16:03:52 <summatusmentis> it's impossible to find any of this out without reading without knowing the framework code intimately
Jun 01 16:04:06 <sugardave> one thing to remember about bubble and waterfall is that they will continue up or down and trigger everyone listening for that event unless you return true in the handler that you wanted to fire
Jun 01 16:04:07 <summatusmentis> or, you know, anonymous people on IRC telling you
Jun 01 16:04:16 <summatusmentis> right, that I knew
Jun 01 16:04:20 <sugardave> k
Jun 01 16:04:26 <sugardave> so, it's probably OK to use it
Jun 01 16:05:08 <sugardave> in Enyo 2, the doEvent mechanism actually propagates up the tree, too, which is a slight departure from Enyo 1
Jun 01 16:05:26 <summatusmentis> my understanding is that doEvent() was just a wrapper for bubble?
Jun 01 16:05:41 <sugardave> more or less, I guess it is
Jun 01 16:05:51 <summatusmentis> meeh
Jun 01 16:06:22 <sugardave> just go with the tried and true "if it works" methodology ;)
Jun 01 16:06:52 <summatusmentis> well, that's why I've been breaking encapsulation
Jun 01 16:07:00 <summatusmentis> because I can get it to work
Jun 01 16:07:13 <summatusmentis> I'm sort of faking my way through learning web technologies on the fly
Jun 01 16:07:35 <sugardave> hey, this sounds familiar
Jun 01 16:07:46 <sugardave> ARE YOU TRYING TO STEAL MY JOB?!
Jun 01 16:07:57 <summatusmentis> not unless I can get a PhD out of it
Jun 01 16:08:13 <sugardave> heh, unlikely
Jun 01 16:09:27 <summatusmentis> then no, I'll stick to minimal pay and long hours :)
Jun 01 16:37:09 <summatusmentis> sugardave: any other thoughts on resized()?
Jun 01 16:41:20 <sugardave> um...I wish it were automatic?
Jun 01 16:42:04 <sugardave> seriously, I just learned about the (sometimes) necessity of running it on controls.  My brain is too fried today to go delving in the source.  Today is relax and re-pack day
Jun 01 16:43:30 <fxspec06> i kinda inadvertently realized the bubble fired up the tree
Jun 01 16:43:39 <fxspec06> but it's nice to hear a confirmation
Jun 01 16:43:43 <summatusmentis> le sigh, ok, I'll probably just set a width
Jun 01 16:43:59 <summatusmentis> I wish there were an easy to way to see which events had been fired
Jun 01 16:44:07 <summatusmentis> like an event stack I could log or something
Jun 01 16:44:15 <fxspec06> that'd be cool
Jun 01 16:45:06 <fxspec06> but i don't think it'd be possible
Jun 01 16:45:41 <summatusmentis> sugardave: ooh, better question for you, that shouldn't be too hard on your fried brain. How do I get global data fields?
Jun 01 16:58:49 <madnificent> summatusmentis: how about a global variable with a singleton object in it?
Jun 01 16:59:16 <madnificent> and welcome Adora.  i think i need to nag to you so we might potentially ever get those enyo shirts available online (no, i will not travel to the us for a shirt)
Jun 01 17:03:03 <rwatkins> hm.  so ... no real need for bubble when events continue to propegate up ...
Jun 01 17:03:53 <madnificent> rwatkins: did you manually bubble and then notice that you didn't need it? (like me)
Jun 01 17:04:00 <rwatkins> yet another thing for the 'should refactor' list
Jun 01 17:04:04 <rwatkins> ya.
Jun 01 17:04:50 <madnificent> oh right, i was wondering:  we don't need to change much, if anything, to use enyo for svg, right?
Jun 01 17:06:01 <rwatkins> i dont see how they're related.
Jun 01 17:06:21 <rwatkins> its like "we dont need to change much if anything, to use Enyo for localStorage"
Jun 01 17:06:38 <rwatkins> you can write enyo controls around all kinds of interesting stuff.  or not. your choice.
Jun 01 17:15:38 <madnificent> rwatkins: i guess i'd only need to implement defaultkind and ontap
Jun 01 17:15:44 <madnificent> and atg
Jun 01 17:15:47 <madnificent> s/atg/tag/
Jun 01 17:51:34 <rwatkins> 3.5k LOC of Enyo2 code in my app and its pretty much all UI.  And two kinds with 500 lines.  Maybe time to refactor.
Jun 01 18:48:59 <fxspec06> omg i booted
Jun 01 18:49:01 <fxspec06> into
Jun 01 18:49:01 <fxspec06> ssd
Jun 01 18:49:16 <fxspec06> =O
Jun 01 19:34:24 <sugardave> summatusmentis: they told me "no globals" BUT you can use the statics (or maybe static) property of a kind for that.  OR just make a global variable and use that.  I was re-creating enyo.application object that I knew and loved from Enyo 1
Jun 01 19:41:07 <summatusmentis> I mean, globals breaks encapsulation too
Jun 01 19:41:18 <summatusmentis> but it seems silly to retype a base URL 17 times, for instance
Jun 01 19:42:49 <sugardave> sure, I feel you.  You could always just pass a reference to it when instantiating your kinds
Jun 01 19:43:44 <summatusmentis> that seems silly also
Jun 01 19:43:47 <summatusmentis> I'll figure it out
Jun 01 19:45:40 <sugardave> meh, {kind: blah, url: this.url} and blah.js uses this.url instead of otherKind.url or enyo.application.url
Jun 01 19:45:55 <sugardave> it's kind of a preference thing, I guess
Jun 01 19:49:30 <summatusmentis> yar
Jun 01 22:51:34 <madnificent> would there be interest in an SVG library for enyo?  i doubt it'd be feasible for a lone dev, but given a bit of a community we should be able to build something with nice basic drawing primitives.
Jun 01 22:52:12 <invalidopcode> madnificent: can the HTML5 canvas do SVG drawing?
Jun 01 22:52:26 <madnificent> you can nest canvas in SVG and vice-versa IIRC
Jun 01 22:52:40 <madnificent> but canvas and SVG aren't easily intermixable
Jun 01 22:53:00 <madnificent> SVG gives you primitives which you can manipulate, and it'll handle the drawing of them.  canvas gives you pixels
Jun 01 22:53:07 <akanster> Are there any examples of Enyo being used on sites with decent traffic?
Jun 01 22:53:31 <madnificent> akanster: i doubt enyo /can/ be a performance issue if that's your question
Jun 01 22:54:23 <madnificent> SVG also helps you in drawing relatively complex stuf (paths etc) and it allows you to attach onclick (so ontap in enyo) to svg elements.  you can also duplicate elements in the enyo spec.  and it can be nested in your DOM tree.
Jun 01 22:54:42 <PatrickC> SVG is nice in an editor
Jun 01 22:54:47 <akanster> not performance. I'm curious if it can be used on single page apps like the Twitter mobile site. How it handle's back buttons and such
Jun 01 22:54:53 * PatrickC knows that was probably not on the topic at hand. but just wanted to say it :)
Jun 01 22:55:13 <madnificent> the downside of SVG is that dynamic SVG isn't (as well) supported in many mobile devices
Jun 01 22:55:20 <akanster> Not the old twitter mobile site.  The one that comes up on iOS and Android browsers
Jun 01 22:55:37 <madnificent> PatrickC: inkscape is awesome (but actually writes more than the SVG standard allows)
Jun 01 22:56:13 <PatrickC> madnificent, its a nice editor
Jun 01 22:56:17 <madnificent> akanster: i don't know what it looks like, but i thought you could manage those events in JS, so you can manage them in enyo too :)  don't know if it has support for it.
Jun 01 22:56:20 <PatrickC> allows me to do a lot more then MS paint haha
Jun 01 22:56:22 <akanster> PatrickC: you ever open up a .svg file in a text editor? :)
Jun 01 22:56:25 <madnificent> akanster: as in: if it already helps you
Jun 01 22:56:29 <PatrickC> akanster, hahahahaha no :P
Jun 01 22:56:33 <akanster> try it
Jun 01 22:56:35 <madnificent> akanster: yes :/
Jun 01 22:56:46 * PatrickC goes to try it
Jun 01 22:56:49 <madnificent> akanster: inkscape contains an editor btw!
Jun 01 22:57:17 <PatrickC> its an XML file.......?
Jun 01 22:57:21 <akanster> yup
Jun 01 22:57:31 <PatrickC> whoa.... lol
Jun 01 22:57:31 <akanster> it's all mathematical equations
Jun 01 22:57:35 <akanster> noog :)
Jun 01 22:57:38 <akanster> noob*
Jun 01 22:57:41 * PatrickC 's head hurts now
Jun 01 22:57:42 <madnificent> it even has a DTD :)
Jun 01 22:57:47 <akanster> and STD
Jun 01 22:57:54 <akanster> I keed, I keed
Jun 01 22:57:57 * madnificent generates lisp-code from that DTD so he can write the SVG as a set of lisp functions.
Jun 01 22:58:14 <akanster> oh god, I kinda miss lisp
Jun 01 22:58:20 <akanster> actually, scheme
Jun 01 22:58:50 <madnificent> akanster: come to lisp, we're the good kids.  scheme isn't practical.  then make sure writing enyo is easy in parenscript and make me happy (i haven't tried)
Jun 01 23:00:17 <akanster> what do you use Lisp for?
Jun 01 23:00:46 <madnificent> *everything*
Jun 01 23:01:03 <madnificent> i use it for what's on my github and then some
Jun 01 23:01:11 <madnificent> s/some/much, very much/
Jun 02 01:07:55 <visionary> so, i am planning on using enyo to build iphone apps… via phonegap, thoughts?
Jun 02 01:08:52 <fxspec06> what kind of thoughts are you looking for? you shouldn't have any problems
Jun 02 02:17:11 <sugardave> visionary: piece of cake, use bootplate
Jun 02 02:19:50 <sugardave> and why limit to iphone?  you can go on all devices/markets
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Sat Jun 02 02:59:58 2012