**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Jun 04 02:59:59 2012
Jun 04 03:41:02 <EricBlade1> and peopel wonder why i hate languages that don't have at least an option for strict typing
Jun 04 03:43:47 <phil_bw> EricBlade1, yep...
Jun 04 03:45:35 <EricBlade1> hmm. finally got that new xo interface on playbook.. it is dog slow
Jun 04 03:45:52 <EricBlade1> at least in the browser.  but i've seen quite a difference on some things between browser and app forms
Jun 04 03:46:22 <phil_bw> EricBlade1, so I've been wondering... why do you have a playbook?  It seems like you have nothing but trouble with it
Jun 04 03:46:32 <EricBlade1> because they gave it to me
Jun 04 03:46:35 <phil_bw> oh
Jun 04 03:46:38 <phil_bw> good reason
Jun 04 03:47:08 <phil_bw> do you have much of a customer base on it?
Jun 04 03:47:13 <EricBlade1> i may ignore this weird thing with the power button, just because i'm sick of having to wait around for the FedEx ninjas to come to pick it up
Jun 04 03:47:49 <EricBlade1> gvoice has about as many playbook downloads as it does pre downloads
Jun 04 03:47:58 <EricBlade1> not very many
Jun 04 03:48:09 <phil_bw> interesting
Jun 04 03:48:46 <phil_bw> has it been very difficult to port to it? or does phonegap pretty much take care of that
Jun 04 03:49:15 <EricBlade1> i didn't even need phonegap
Jun 04 03:49:28 <phil_bw> oh?
Jun 04 03:49:35 <EricBlade1> aside from having to find equivalents for some webOS specific calls, or remove them, it just runs on playbook
Jun 04 03:49:46 <phil_bw> interesting
Jun 04 03:49:56 <phil_bw> that's right you're coming from Enyo 1 huh
Jun 04 03:50:05 <EricBlade1> i spent more time trying to figure out how to use their signing tools, than porting gvoice and xo
Jun 04 03:50:19 <phil_bw> haha
Jun 04 03:51:21 <EricBlade1> i'd probably just stick with enyo 1, if it wasn't for the fact that my current contracts in the video game industry might be coming to an abrupt end
Jun 04 03:51:36 <EricBlade1> so i kinda need to branch out a little bit
Jun 04 03:51:43 <phil_bw> ah
Jun 04 03:51:49 <EricBlade1> and the nokia guys are like showering hardware on people who show up with apps
Jun 04 03:52:01 <phil_bw> good to know
Jun 04 03:52:39 <phil_bw> I'm coming from a completely different angle
Jun 04 03:52:44 <EricBlade1> microsoft had approached me about moving to windows phone, when i said i wanted actual hardware and not just an emulator, they stopped talking to me
Jun 04 03:52:52 <phil_bw> writing an app purely because I need it, and Enyo 2 seemed like a good fit for it
Jun 04 03:53:21 <phil_bw> yeah, you can only get so far with an emulator
Jun 04 03:53:41 <EricBlade1> nokia guys tell me get it to the emulator, and we'll talk about hardware
Jun 04 03:53:44 <phil_bw> I remember spending countless hours trying to optimize something that ran like crap on an emulator just to find out it was lightning fast on an actual device
Jun 04 03:54:34 <EricBlade1> so far, all i've done though is install the emulator
Jun 04 03:54:37 <EricBlade1> i have no idea what to do with it
Jun 04 03:54:41 <EricBlade1> i can't even figure out how to navigate it
Jun 04 03:54:49 <phil_bw> yeah
Jun 04 03:54:58 <phil_bw> I haven't touched any emulator in years
Jun 04 03:55:08 <phil_bw> with Enyo 2 chrome is my emulator
Jun 04 03:55:16 <EricBlade1> lesson 1.. if a programmer can't figure out how to do -anything- in your interface, your interface is craaaaaaaaaap.
Jun 04 03:55:40 <phil_bw> last time I really had to use one was when I ported a BlackBerry app over to PalmOS... that BB emulator was painful to use
Jun 04 03:55:47 <EricBlade1> either that or it's so awesome programmers can't figure it out
Jun 04 03:56:00 <phil_bw> yeah that's good logic
Jun 04 03:56:00 <EricBlade1> avoid the android emulators at all costs
Jun 04 03:56:21 <phil_bw> being I own an Android device that's all unlocked and ready to go I'll just test on it
Jun 04 03:56:31 <EricBlade1> that's much faster
Jun 04 03:56:45 <phil_bw> only problem is it's always completely up to date so testing on older versions of Android could pose a problem
Jun 04 03:57:14 <phil_bw> though I guess if I really wanted to I could just do a nandroid backup and swap to an older version then swap back, but I'm lazy
Jun 04 04:35:54 * phil_bw wanders off
Jun 04 10:17:41 <madnificent> EricBlade: so nokia are ears if you get apps running in their emulator?  oh right, that's windows, i may not be able to even run the emulator
Jun 04 10:17:49 <madnificent> EricBlade: actually, you run linux too, don't you?
**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Jun 04 15:56:03 2012
Jun 04 16:43:07 <EricBlade> madnificent: i haven't used linux on my desktop in years other than the occasional toying with it.  on the rare chance that i actually do need something that's easier done in linux, i have a VM
Jun 04 17:06:55 <madnificent> ah
Jun 04 17:07:03 <madnificent> well, no WM8 dev for me then, i guess
Jun 04 17:50:00 <fxspec06> why ? do you need linux to do wm8 dev?
Jun 04 20:22:07 <fxspec06> enyo 2 works great on playbook, btw. in case anyone was curious.
Jun 04 21:28:13 <unwiredben> so, as we go through the processes of opening up Enyo JS framework team to outside contributors, I've setup a parallel IRC channel, #enyojs-dev for people who want to contribute to the core enyo, layout, and onyx libraries
Jun 04 21:28:35 <unwiredben> I'm also in the middle of getting our google group going again
Jun 04 21:29:01 <fxspec06> awesome! that's great news!
Jun 04 21:29:41 <unwiredben> The mailing list is homed at https://groups.google.com/d/forum/enyo-development
Jun 04 21:30:14 <unwiredben> this doesn't replace the forums at all, we're just going to try to move some of the discussion that would happen on internal Palm aliases and move it there
Jun 04 21:31:13 <unwiredben> it's been a while since I spent much time on IRC (back in my Mozilla days), so I'm just in the middle of getting my environment setup for it
Jun 04 21:32:09 <fxspec06> i have a quick question, while you're here
Jun 04 21:32:59 <fxspec06> about to submit this app for playbook... and they require a 'featured' image. is it O K for me to use the enyo logo in this image? like >> http://i.imgur.com/KehBl.png
Jun 04 21:33:20 <fxspec06> chances are small it'll be featured, but with my luck it would and then it wouldn't be ok to use
Jun 04 21:36:00 <unwiredben> the logo is still HP IP and we've not yet got a communtiy license in place to allow commercial use
Jun 04 21:36:18 <unwiredben> the likelyhood of there being any sort of formal complaint is very small, though
Jun 04 21:37:07 <unwiredben> I think the only mod we'd want in the image you posted is a TM mark and note about it being a trademark of HP
Jun 04 21:37:35 <unwiredben> but we've actually done a bad job of doing that ourself
Jun 04 21:37:42 <unwiredben> so don't worry about it :)
Jun 04 21:38:02 <fxspec06> alright, thanks :)
Jun 05 01:20:21 <_rwatkins> lookin kinda quite on the enyo github repo
Jun 05 01:31:43 <EricBlade> fxspec06: i was thinking that it kinda sucks on the playbook .. at least, animation performance on xo2 is really bad compared to xo1, and xo1 on playbook outperforms everything except the touchpad
Jun 05 01:32:16 <EricBlade> i probably shouldn't judge solely by animation performance, though, but that is how the users judge
Jun 05 01:32:31 <EricBlade> see also why all tablets are called "iPads" and not "TouchPads"
Jun 05 01:33:11 <EricBlade> (other than that "touchpad" was already the normal word to describe the mouse-like surface built into many laptops)
Jun 05 01:38:52 <fxspec06> yeah, performance is mediocre at best
Jun 05 01:38:56 <fxspec06> but, it runs
Jun 05 01:38:58 <fxspec06> =\
Jun 05 01:39:15 <fxspec06> honestly though performance everywhere on the playbook is mediocre at best
Jun 05 01:40:46 <fxspec06> it's not like i'm doing any kinds of crazy things either
Jun 05 01:42:22 <unwiredben> we've been quiet for the last week because of Fluent
Jun 05 01:42:45 <unwiredben> now we're back in dev mode.  With the core guys off the project (for now), I'm a bit of a bottleneck for approving changes
Jun 05 01:43:17 <unwiredben> we're looking to start a review process on changes where everyone will go through pull requests and we can enforce some standards on what goes to trunk
Jun 05 01:43:19 <rwatkins> ya, i figured pretty much everyone was gone last week.  would just be good with the departures to show regluar commits to keep confidence up.
Jun 05 01:43:27 <unwiredben> of course
Jun 05 01:43:37 <unwiredben> we're all getting up to speed
Jun 05 01:43:51 <unwiredben> but I've got most of devrel engineering working on FW bugs right now
Jun 05 01:44:08 <unwiredben> and we're trying to get a beta 5 tagged this week
Jun 05 01:44:32 <rwatkins> cool - was looking for another beta before digging into some of the panels stuff
Jun 05 01:44:54 <unwiredben> yeah, one of the things we're doing very soon is renaming a few list and panel APIs to clear up usage
Jun 05 01:45:04 <unwiredben> things like the "reset" vs "refresh" problem
Jun 05 01:46:23 <sugardave> panels, my favorite :)
Jun 05 01:46:26 <rwatkins> considering refactoring some of the panel code I've got in a decent sized enyo2 app, but dont wanna totally destableizeit
Jun 05 01:47:19 <rwatkins> see if I can replace SnapScroller with something thats is less touchy, and maybe replace my custom "Pane" control.
Jun 05 01:51:39 * rrix closes workhacks and opens playhacks activities
Jun 05 01:52:54 <unwiredben> other community things: working on getting a contribution agreement in place to allow taking larger pulls from outside of HP
Jun 05 01:53:56 <rrix> like, copyright assignment, or..?
Jun 05 01:54:01 <unwiredben> there's a nice set of LazyList controls sitting in https://github.com/enyojs/layout/pull/20
Jun 05 01:54:09 <rwatkins> lawyers.  fun.
Jun 05 01:54:37 <unwiredben> (not speaking as laywer) we don't want copyright assignment, just a statement that any pieces have proper licensing for us to use
Jun 05 01:54:45 <rrix> Cool
Jun 05 01:54:46 <fxspec06> complexlazylist -- doesn't that defeat the purpose of 'lazy' ? ( j/k ) ;)
Jun 05 01:54:51 <unwiredben> hehe
Jun 05 01:56:19 <unwiredben> BTW, Fluent was a big hit last week
Jun 05 01:56:27 <unwiredben> we're getting some photos ready for a blog post
Jun 05 01:56:42 <unwiredben> but the booth was occasionally mobbed by developers and the talk was well attended
Jun 05 01:57:17 <unwiredben> looks like we're going to try to hit OSCon too and we'll have people at TxJS
Jun 05 01:57:19 <fxspec06> awesome! you think you converted any devs?
Jun 05 01:57:38 <rrix> Nice. :)
Jun 05 01:57:39 <unwiredben> yeah, we have several people checking us out and a few meetings scheduled
Jun 05 01:57:52 <unwiredben> can't drop names just yet
Jun 05 01:58:26 * rrix is still tempted to crash txjs
Jun 05 01:58:26 <unwiredben> but I think a lot of the value that HP sees in us will be tied into a healthy community so there are people out there that can solve Enyo problems
Jun 05 01:58:51 <unwiredben> If we had an extra ticket, I'd find a way to gift it, but alas, no.
Jun 05 01:59:13 <rrix> Yeah; one of my coworkers was trying to get me to go, but I didn't buy a ticket
Jun 05 01:59:49 <rwatkins> I'm in Texas on the 14th, just not Austin
Jun 05 02:02:44 <unwiredben> tickets were lotteried out
Jun 05 02:02:54 <unwiredben> there's only so much space in the Alamo Drafthouse theaters
Jun 05 02:04:12 <rrix> That's what they said at mountain west ruby conf too but that didn't stop me *ducks*
Jun 05 02:05:23 * sugardave will be in attendance at TxJS.
Jun 05 02:13:25 <EricBlade> fxspec06: i thought the browser performance on playbook is quite outstanding, considering it tests somewhere above a fully tweaked out touchpad in all the tests i did on it, and below an ipad 2
Jun 05 02:13:57 <EricBlade> fxspec: user interface performance, however, seems to be slightly lower end than what the numbers show though
Jun 05 02:22:26 <fxspec06> ya, but for some reason enyo isn't as silky as you'd expect
Jun 05 02:22:32 <fxspec06> o damn kings. 4-0
Jun 05 02:48:35 <fxspec06> i got game on running in ICS emulator, but performance of the emulator is so horrible i can't even tell if it's running nice
Jun 05 02:48:41 <fxspec06> about to load it onto CM9 tp
Jun 05 02:55:52 <fxspec06> hmm. there's glitches w/ the scroll strategy in android
Jun 05 02:57:39 <fxspec06> glitches that essentially render the app useless =\
Jun 05 02:57:52 <fxspec06> but alas, there is more than one scroll strategy
Jun 05 02:57:55 <summatusmentis> what' kinds of glitches?
Jun 05 02:58:05 <summatusmentis> also, which enyo?
Jun 05 02:58:23 <fxspec06> 2.0
Jun 05 02:58:51 <fxspec06> well i have a layout that's wider than the screen, so what i do is i put everything in a h scroller and use the bottom toolbar to slide around
Jun 05 02:59:18 <fxspec06> on the playbook, you're surprisingly allowed to scroll horizontally, which is fine.. you can still use the bottom toolbar to move quickly
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue Jun 05 02:59:57 2012