**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Jun 06 02:59:58 2012
Jun 06 03:49:57 <fxspec06> haters haters haters.
Jun 06 04:29:24 <unwiredben> so, was looking at a problem I noticed in Onyx on IE9
Jun 06 04:29:41 <unwiredben> I kept seeing the cursor show up in OnyxSampler when clicking on controls
Jun 06 04:29:57 <unwiredben> ends up that IE doesn't support the CSS for "no selection" in 9, it was added in 10
Jun 06 04:30:09 <unwiredben> but there is an "unselectable" attribute that can be applied at the element level
Jun 06 04:30:25 <unwiredben> so I'm checking on any problems with adding those to the various onyx controls that are button-like
Jun 06 04:35:49 <unwiredben> just wondering if this belongs in enyo/ui as well or if onyx is best
Jun 06 04:39:13 * phil_bw2 wanders by
Jun 06 04:39:49 <phil_bw2> Enyo in ie...  Had some fun experiences there earlier...
Jun 06 04:40:47 <phil_bw2> Another developer friend was over and I was showing him the awesomeness that is Enyo and happened to be in IE9 since we were testing something.  Yeah..  Didn't go so well
Jun 06 05:02:43 <phil_bw> unwiredben, it seems that jsonp calls in IE9 fail randomly.  Couldn't get this to work right at all in IE9 earlier, now everything works fine, but if I force the issue occasionally I get SCRIPT5009: 'enyo_jsonp_callback_2' is undefined
Jun 06 05:03:35 <phil_bw> being I am targetting mobile and everything will be using WebKit I'm not too concerned really, but I figured I'd point it out since you're around
Jun 06 05:05:33 <unwiredben> phil_bw: I had some JSON calls fail once because the service I talked to forced the name to all lowercase, but I changed the code to just use lowercase
Jun 06 05:06:11 <unwiredben> I wonder if that's a problem with cached JSONP results
Jun 06 05:06:19 <phil_bw> unwiredben, well the service I'm talking to is my own server and as far as I can tell I'm using the same case
Jun 06 05:06:23 <unwiredben> which means the script loaded uses the old callback name
Jun 06 05:06:47 <unwiredben> I added a cachebuster param in the latest version of that in github to work around that
Jun 06 05:06:50 <phil_bw> oh you know, I didn't think of that, there's a way to prevent caching isn't there?
Jun 06 05:06:59 <unwiredben> ^^^
Jun 06 05:07:03 <phil_bw> aha
Jun 06 05:07:13 <phil_bw> just need the JSONP library?
Jun 06 05:07:30 <unwiredben> JSONP is now in core, the enyo/source/async folder
Jun 06 05:07:38 <unwiredben> it got pulled out of extra
Jun 06 05:07:47 <phil_bw> good to know
Jun 06 05:07:54 <phil_bw> I'll download it tomorrow and play with it
Jun 06 05:07:59 <unwiredben> cool
Jun 06 05:08:04 <phil_bw> so far IE is the only browser that's gave me any issue
Jun 06 05:08:20 <unwiredben> yeah, others may cache things differently, that's the most likely problem
Jun 06 05:08:49 <phil_bw> and of course it has all of its problems when I'm trying to show off Enyo
Jun 06 05:09:02 <unwiredben> also reminds me, next time I touch CryptoTweets, I need to put some limits on the API calls to keep one client from making requests too often
Jun 06 05:09:19 <unwiredben> I get emails about once a day from USA Today saying my API key's above their req/sec limit
Jun 06 05:09:30 <phil_bw> haha
Jun 06 05:09:42 <phil_bw> why not set up your own server side api for testing purposes?
Jun 06 05:09:51 <phil_bw> a fake news feed or something
Jun 06 05:10:02 <unwiredben> I was thinking of setting up a server to cache the APIs
Jun 06 05:10:06 <unwiredben> just hadn't gotten around to it
Jun 06 05:10:13 <phil_bw> ah, that's not a bad idea either
Jun 06 05:10:47 <phil_bw> but for just the demonstration of AJAX/JSON/JSONP/etc a simple php file with a few lines of code will respond with something usable
Jun 06 05:11:28 <phil_bw> heck my whole app operates via a simple php file with a few lines of code in it :)
Jun 06 05:12:12 <unwiredben> its much more fun with live data
Jun 06 05:12:20 * unwiredben heads to bed
Jun 06 05:12:23 <phil_bw> thats true
Jun 06 05:12:27 <phil_bw> yeah I need to go myself
Jun 06 05:12:28 <phil_bw> 'night
Jun 06 13:54:46 * fxspec06 *stretches
Jun 06 18:12:32 <madnificent> is there a way to read bleutooth devices from enyojs (i'll read the answer later, i don't have time for this, i just want it out of my head).  i'm especially interested in reading out those car bleutooth things.  even though my car doesn't have it, i'm a car freak and want to toy with it.
Jun 06 18:12:52 <madnificent> come to think of it, my favorite car may actually have it.  i'll check later
Jun 06 18:13:14 <madnificent> but the point is: i may want to build an interface to these connectors with enyo.  it could be really really cool :)
Jun 06 18:16:38 <madnificent> Tibfib_: do i have an actual project: for this or for something else?
Jun 06 18:16:59 * madnificent always has projects, luckily tasks@hand deals with vast amounts of tasks reasonably well
Jun 06 18:17:07 <Tibfib_> I meant on kickstarter
Jun 06 18:17:18 <madnificent> oh, no, we're not on kickstarter :)
Jun 06 18:17:26 <madnificent> but i do have an actual project, yes
Jun 06 18:17:54 <madnificent> we are seeking funding to build a business intelligence solution for small to medium sized companies.  though we're really looking for angel investors
Jun 06 18:18:18 <Tibfib_> ah gotcha
Jun 06 18:19:13 <madnificent> but, with all do respect to our competition, our backend is vastly superior and can offer smaller companies a wide range of functionality which they won't easily find elsewhere.  at a rather low price even.  and SaaS!
Jun 06 18:20:35 * madnificent goes back to fixing thesis documentation
Jun 06 18:43:36 <unwiredben> bluetooth interaction depends heavily on the platform
Jun 06 18:43:46 <unwiredben> on webOS, there are services that let you talk BT serial
Jun 06 18:43:59 <unwiredben> on other platforms, you might be able to make a PhoneGap plugin to use BT services
Jun 06 18:44:23 <unwiredben> but it's not something that a web API really exists for, although the Boot2Gecko team may be working on a spec
Jun 06 18:48:04 <Tibfib_> unwiredben: has someone been hired or promoted to be in charge of enyo now?
Jun 06 18:48:20 <unwiredben> Gray Norton is manager of the Enyo team, I'm technical lead
Jun 06 18:48:53 <Tibfib_> Good to hear
Jun 06 18:54:10 <unwiredben> We should have our official Enyo JS team positions posted on HP's hiring site soon.  It takes a little time to get it all cleared through the process.
Jun 06 18:59:04 <EricBlade> if anyone ever wonders about it, it looks like Chrome apps update themselves automatically without any user input
Jun 06 19:09:21 <bigbluehat> it's like Enyo JS, just spelled difurnt http://www.nanojs.org/
Jun 06 19:20:04 <rektide2> curious what other event based or reactive systems people know about in JS?
Jun 06 19:20:22 <rektide2> Knockout comes to mind as event's dual, reactive
Jun 06 19:20:42 <rektide2> (i tend to think of reactive and event based as that, duals to each other, parcle and a wave)
Jun 06 19:21:16 <rektide2> btw, hello #Enyojs. i think i will be joining you all, at least for a while.
Jun 06 19:22:06 <fxspec06> damn. nanojs looks like a complete ripoff
Jun 06 19:22:46 <fxspec06> like one of those chinese knockoffs
Jun 06 19:23:05 <madnificent> they just wanted enyojs for non-webos platforms i guess
Jun 06 19:23:16 <madnificent> regardless, let's not care about the weaklings ;)
Jun 06 19:23:17 <fxspec06> it doesn't really add anything though
Jun 06 19:23:40 <fxspec06> like, what can you do with nanojs that you can't do in HTML with less code? that's one of the great things w/ enyo.. it adds functionality
Jun 06 19:23:53 <madnificent> also, it is GPL.  which i dislike.
Jun 06 19:24:09 <madnificent> fxspec06: you can encapsulate thing
Jun 06 19:24:10 <madnificent> s
Jun 06 19:24:29 <madnificent> and it has DragNDrop (we don't have that yet, right?)
Jun 06 19:24:38 <fxspec06> i've unsubscribed from these CNET newsletters like 5 times already, yet i still get them
Jun 06 19:25:29 <madnificent> fxspec06: i then tag them as spam everywhere i can
Jun 06 19:25:45 <rektide2> if you think eloquent programming is proprietary to enyo js i have news for you
Jun 06 19:25:47 <madnificent> that way bayesian filters learn that CNET sends spam :)
Jun 06 19:25:50 <rektide2> re: nanojs
Jun 06 19:25:53 <fxspec06> i'd rather just not get the email to begin with
Jun 06 19:26:13 <madnificent> hey ezakimak, you missed:
Jun 06 19:26:34 <madnificent> nanojs.org, knockout, parcle, wave (whatever those last two are)
Jun 06 19:26:49 <fxspec06> in my mind, enyo is very eloquent.. esp in regards to javascript
Jun 06 19:26:53 <madnificent> so, this is probably the right time to ask how you could integrate enyojs with knockout, or how something similar is bulit :)
Jun 06 19:27:29 <ezakimak> i'm already well on my way w/knockout, plus it's integrated with wijmo and jquery(ui)
Jun 06 19:28:14 <ezakimak> i've no doubt enyo wouldn't benefit from knockout as well
Jun 06 19:28:56 <ezakimak> although enyo by aproach intends to not need it
Jun 06 19:30:55 <bigbluehat> fxspec06: yeah...thought it was a sad aproximation
Jun 06 19:31:30 <bigbluehat> more crazy options here: http://addyosmani.github.com/todomvc/
Jun 06 19:31:39 <summatusmentis> wait, ezakimak are you a knockout person?
Jun 06 19:31:43 <bigbluehat> and here http://addyosmani.github.com/todomvc/labs/
Jun 06 19:31:54 <summatusmentis> it'd be really slick to have knockout integrated well w/ enyo
Jun 06 19:32:11 <summatusmentis> the enyo data model is still not something I completely wrap my brain around
Jun 06 19:32:22 <rektide2> thanks for there being channel logs. looks like my question was already being debated.
Jun 06 19:32:50 <rektide2> oh but they are stale.
Jun 06 19:32:54 <rektide2> what are you all talking about?
Jun 06 19:32:59 <ezakimak> yes, i really like knockout
Jun 06 19:33:14 <rektide2> i too am coming from a knockout background
Jun 06 19:33:22 <rektide2> it just lacks components and structure
Jun 06 19:34:00 <ezakimak> well, it, like many other toolkits, requires you to make your own mashup of tools to get the structure you want
Jun 06 19:34:21 <ezakimak> wijmo supports it, so you get the jquery-ui and wijmo widgets if you want
Jun 06 19:35:07 <ezakimak> there are some really good tutorials on it, but they aren't all prominently linked
Jun 06 19:36:13 <unwiredben> summatusmentis: what Enyo data model?  We rely on the dev to supply their own model, but our components are a mix of view generation and controller logic.
Jun 06 19:36:50 <summatusmentis> unwiredben: that's kinda my point
Jun 06 19:36:53 <unwiredben> BTW, talked with wijmo at Fluent... Roy on our devrel team was able to load their calendar widget into an Enyo app with just a little work
Jun 06 19:37:06 <ezakimak> so, does enyo classify itself as mvvm?
Jun 06 19:37:17 <unwiredben> nope
Jun 06 19:37:26 <rektide2> indeed, it's event based
Jun 06 19:37:38 <rektide2> but all the reactivity you have to program yourself the hard way
Jun 06 19:37:46 <unwiredben> we're a component model with events
Jun 06 19:37:47 <summatusmentis> unwiredben: I think my issue is that I'm coming from OOP w/ Java, and enyo "feels" like that, except not quite
Jun 06 19:37:57 <rektide2> you could certainly write code that turned incoming events into observable setters which just do their things
Jun 06 19:38:09 <rektide2> rather, having incoming events fire observable setters
Jun 06 19:38:12 <ezakimak> enyo, felt to me no different than manually wiring up all the event bindings w/jquery
Jun 06 19:38:17 <summatusmentis> issue is the wrong word, I'm really enjoying enyo
Jun 06 19:38:26 <rektide2> this is the event / reactive dual at work
Jun 06 19:38:34 <ezakimak> plus, it didn't seem to truly shield you from html--and was even more verbose when you had to do html
Jun 06 19:38:51 <ezakimak> which is why knockout is so appealing to me
Jun 06 19:38:57 <rektide2> hey ezakimak, do you have any online presence, twitter or a blog or a g+? would like to follow.
Jun 06 19:38:58 <ezakimak> so, if you could combine them, that would be a win
Jun 06 19:39:11 <ezakimak> no, i probably should though
Jun 06 19:39:17 <unwiredben> well, there is some templating support -- the tutorial should probably show making a component using that in addition to the nested control approach
Jun 06 19:39:55 <unwiredben> there are calls in the macroize.js file
Jun 06 19:40:00 <ezakimak> i played with making a custom widget, and was frustrated by having to do components: [ { tag: "tr", compenents: [ { tag: "td" .... ad verbositum...
Jun 06 19:40:10 <summatusmentis> I'd actually love to see a tutorial about that
Jun 06 19:40:33 <unwiredben> if you don't need to manipulate the subelements, then stuffing them as a string into content and setting the allowHtml flag is a bit easier
Jun 06 19:40:58 <ezakimak> what about having to manipulate the leaf nodes? (the common case)
Jun 06 19:41:22 <ezakimak> you need to specify the structure/layout to contain them, and then still be able to address the leaf elements to do your actual stuff
Jun 06 19:41:24 <summatusmentis> that's part of it, I'd like access to manipulating subelements, but I realize that breaks the enyo encapsulation concept
Jun 06 19:42:06 <ezakimak> afaic, i've yet to find any framework that lets you truly, fluidly, encapsulate a layout and at the same time easily bind and control sub elements in an easy way
Jun 06 19:43:05 <unwiredben> if I were doing it for the Twitter control, I'd just change content and have it rerender into the DOM.  You may get some things rebuilt on the page that you didn't have to, but it's easier to mentally manage
Jun 06 19:43:07 * madnificent thinks people should wait a tad longer so they can wrap their head around enyo.  think prototypes, not classes.
Jun 06 19:43:07 <ezakimak> knockout comes closest to the one end of the that goal, and w/templates does allow you to sort of compenentize things, but it's not the same kind of compenentization that enyo, pyjs, or weblocks attempts
Jun 06 19:44:06 <unwiredben> I'd like to look at knockout more
Jun 06 19:44:27 <ezakimak> knockout website has some killer interactive tutorials. I love the format--wish all frameworks did it that way
Jun 06 19:44:30 <unwiredben> I think there's room for synergy there -- have a knockout-based controls that sit in an Enyo control tree
Jun 06 19:45:04 <ezakimak> well, actually, i'd use knockout to let you define layout/templates and bind back into the enyo framework for control
Jun 06 19:45:23 <ezakimak> then use enyo to stamp out widgets wherever and tie them together
Jun 06 19:45:24 <madnificent> that would break encapsulation
Jun 06 19:46:04 <ezakimak> i think it would help it
Jun 06 19:47:15 <Tibfib_> unwiredben:  Is there any particular reason (that you know of) that there is no "refresh" method for repeaters? only build?
Jun 06 19:47:22 <madnificent> sigh
Jun 06 19:47:42 <unwiredben_> Tibfib_: repeaters aren't managed
Jun 06 19:47:59 <unwiredben_> a enyo.List keeps track of the subset that's actually rendered into the page
Jun 06 19:48:18 <unwiredben_> but for repeater, what would refresh mean different from build?
Jun 06 19:48:29 <unwiredben_> enyo.List.refresh() is actually misnamed and usually shoudln't be used
Jun 06 19:48:33 <rektide2> http://www.knockmeout.net/2011/08/all-of-knockoutjscom-live-samples-in.html
Jun 06 19:48:38 <rektide2> is a freaking badass way to learn Knockout
Jun 06 19:48:47 <Tibfib_> unwiredben: oh? What should be used?
Jun 06 19:48:50 <unwiredben_> .reset() is what you really want most of the time, it's what you call when the data model changes wholesale
Jun 06 19:48:54 <Tibfib_> and I made this method for repeaters https://gist.github.com/db58482f7739626af5b1
Jun 06 19:49:08 <rektide2> ezakimak: your goal is my goal
Jun 06 19:49:14 <unwiredben_> .enyo.List.refresh() should really be called enyo.List.rerenderVisibleItems()
Jun 06 19:49:22 <rektide2> no one's commenting on a thing i say though
Jun 06 19:49:24 <rektide2> so good to you all
Jun 06 19:49:33 <madnificent> rektide2: enyojs /begins/ with the most complex example of that :)
Jun 06 19:49:41 <unwiredben> rektide2: thanks for the pointer
Jun 06 19:53:44 <rektide2> nice, you're a hardware hacker too unwiredben
Jun 06 19:53:58 <unwiredben> yeah, not so much lately, but I like the blinkies
Jun 06 19:54:16 <rektide2> i've noticed the mass of led-related projects
Jun 06 19:54:35 <rektide2> i just thought "hardware" not necessarily dasblinkenlights, but you do indeed seem to like the blinkies specifically
Jun 06 19:54:57 <unwiredben> Tibfib_: I can kinda see the point, but I think it might be better served by a more generic way to send an event to each repeated element
Jun 06 19:55:06 <unwiredben> and that already exists with enyo.waterfallDown
Jun 06 19:55:22 <unwiredben> since you're using onSetupItem in a context outside of the original build
Jun 06 19:55:46 <unwiredben> yeah, I spent a long time working on embedded tools and ARM code in the past
Jun 06 19:56:06 <Tibfib_> unwiredben: good to know. that's what I'll use
Jun 06 19:56:35 <Tibfib_> Also, is the enyojs.com documentation not working for anyone else?
Jun 06 19:56:36 <unwiredben> Tibfib_: there's an example in the CryptoTweets code -- I use that to let all the cells know when something is hovered so they can adjust their styles
Jun 06 19:56:57 <Tibfib_> unwiredben: I'll check it out, thanks!
Jun 06 19:57:06 <unwiredben> Tibfib_: you talking about enyojs.com/api ? I see it in FF
Jun 06 19:57:16 <unwiredben> but I think there's a problem in IE right now
Jun 06 19:57:41 <Tibfib_> that'ssss weird. It works now
Jun 06 19:57:55 <unwiredben> it works for me in IE9
Jun 06 19:58:08 <unwiredben> it does take a moment, as it's reading all the enyo source over AJAX
Jun 06 19:58:15 <Tibfib_> Perhaps, in the past, it's because it hasn't been loaded yet
Jun 06 20:07:17 <Tibfib_> unwiredben: Got it working, thank you!
Jun 06 20:07:55 <unwiredben> Tibfib_: you're welcome
Jun 06 20:44:51 <PuffTheMagic_> unwiredben: since when do you maintain an IRC presence
Jun 06 20:45:01 <unwiredben> since a few days ago
Jun 06 20:45:17 <unwiredben> we're going to start using IRC more for our development chatter as we open up the project more
Jun 06 20:47:05 <PuffTheMagic_> good plan (TM)
Jun 06 20:47:38 <fxspec06> i just opened up another mIRC in celebration ( more like on accident )
Jun 06 20:47:40 <PuffTheMagic_> looking forward to open webOS 1.0
Jun 06 20:51:12 <EricBlade> *going back and reading what i've missed* madnificent: drag-and-drop was ridiculously easy to implement in enyo 1, i'm not sure that that's any different in enyo 2.
Jun 06 20:51:53 * unwiredben really needs to get IRSSI up and running on a persistent shell again
Jun 06 20:52:19 <PuffTheMagic_> or
Jun 06 20:52:22 <PuffTheMagic_> use bib or znc
Jun 06 20:52:31 <PuffTheMagic_> they work with any irc client
Jun 06 20:52:39 <PuffTheMagic_> s/bib/bip
Jun 06 20:53:20 <PuffTheMagic_> prob be usefull to get a znc server stup on at hp for all the employees
Jun 06 20:53:27 <PuffTheMagic_> since it supports multiple users and networks
Jun 06 20:56:38 <EricBlade> if i can figure out a way to get the touchpad's groupchat thing to stabilize when i create IRC channels in messaging, i'm going to turn off IRC on pidgin, and just login from my synergy client all the time
Jun 06 20:59:26 <EricBlade> it can chug along for a few days, and then all of a sudden, the chatthreader will start throwing messages into a pending group .. and if i delete all the groups and recreate them, then they'll all show up
Jun 06 21:05:58 <madnificent> EricBlade: do you have a link on that?  i'm bound to want to read that sometime soon.
Jun 06 21:06:40 <EricBlade> madnificent: the webOS sdk includes a drag-drop enyo example
Jun 06 21:06:49 <madnificent> unwiredben: you guys must have a server running somewhere...  i'm sure you know how to, otherwise ask
Jun 06 21:07:12 <unwiredben> oh yeah, I've done it before... just hadn't had time yet since jumping back on
Jun 06 21:07:30 <madnificent> EricBlade: (: ty :)
Jun 06 21:08:47 <madnificent> unwiredben: admit it, you expected us to write you a service which ran in screen/detachtty that you could connect to synergy
Jun 06 21:09:14 <unwiredben> I never expected anyone to do anything with synergy... too many bodies buried in that code :)
Jun 06 21:09:29 <madnificent> haha, good comeback
Jun 06 21:12:10 <EricBlade> heh.  once (someone) has dug through and found out all the fields that need to get filled in to actually make things display in the messaging app, it's really pretty simple to work with
Jun 06 21:12:30 <rrix> and It only took three years for someone to do that ;p
Jun 06 21:13:27 <madnificent> rrix: but that someone was EricBlade
Jun 06 21:14:05 <EricBlade> invalidopcode helped a lot too
Jun 06 21:16:05 <rrix> I know that :P
Jun 07 01:56:27 <rwatkins> so I wonder what some of the biggest Enyo2 apps are at this point.
Jun 07 01:57:23 <fxspec06> not mine. lol. i should just release it for free and put a donate button on it.. o.O
Jun 07 01:57:36 <fxspec06> then again it's been in the catalog for like. 24hrs.
Jun 07 01:57:46 <rwatkins> meaning more application code base really
Jun 07 01:58:04 <fxspec06> in that regard, it's fairly complex
Jun 07 01:58:34 <rwatkins> some of the TouchPad apps are a decent example of larger apps in Enyo, but they dont really have to deal with some of the cross platform issues.
Jun 07 01:58:38 <rwatkins> LOC?
Jun 07 01:58:43 <fxspec06> not massive, but it's got a few thousand lines.
Jun 07 01:58:50 <fxspec06> loc?
Jun 07 01:59:05 <rwatkins> Lines Of Code.
Jun 07 01:59:37 <fxspec06> let's see..
Jun 07 02:00:26 <rwatkins> lack of a history mechanism seems to be one notable exception when working outside webOS and iOS.
Jun 07 02:01:31 <rwatkins> I've got a fairly large Enyo2 project -- a bunch of stuff in there but the Enyo2 code is roughly 4k w/o the enyo libs themselves.
Jun 07 02:02:01 <rwatkins> not including all the other JS code thats "non-enyo"
Jun 07 02:02:12 <fxspec06> 3502 over 12-15 files, not counting package.js or css
Jun 07 02:02:28 <rwatkins> fairly sizeable.
Jun 07 02:02:38 <fxspec06> yeah. few long nights lol
Jun 07 02:03:13 <fxspec06> two largest 867 & 738, smallest at 43 & 54
Jun 07 02:03:18 <rwatkins> ya, got a bit more than that in ~30 kinds.  file per kind.
Jun 07 02:03:48 <fxspec06> i should probably learn to break down my kinds better. it's a bit messy
Jun 07 02:04:15 <rwatkins> my smallest is 9 lines.  :)  Button extends enyo.Button just to scroll the UI up and down 1px to trigger Android to refresh the display. :)
Jun 07 02:04:28 <fxspec06> lol, 9 lines
Jun 07 02:04:35 <fxspec06> one of the great things about enyo =P
Jun 07 02:05:13 <rwatkins> ya
Jun 07 02:06:08 <fxspec06> i'm taking a bit of a break for a while from coding i think. my neice is staying here for a couple weeks, i might as well use the opportunity to relax. summer II starts next month and i just worked my tail off to get this enyo 2 out the door
Jun 07 02:06:38 <fxspec06> i think i'm gonna mayb port a couple more open sourced games to the pad to keep my head above water
Jun 07 02:07:14 <rwatkins> i need to dig into some of the newer enyo stuff, but the project is my day job and cant really destablize the app at this moment.
Jun 07 02:07:35 <rwatkins> so no Panels so far
Jun 07 02:10:07 <fxspec06> destablize. that's a good word
Jun 07 02:12:26 <fxspec06> my day job is to do school work, and make money on the side
Jun 07 02:13:30 <rwatkins> my only webOS/enyo app is free, so my day job needs to pay :)
Jun 07 02:14:30 <fxspec06> heh. i bet if i released my app as a free app, it'd come close to or surpass the poker in ratings and downloads
Jun 07 02:15:07 <fxspec06> but i don't completely trust the donate system, or the downloadable content system
Jun 07 02:22:12 <invalidopcode> does anyone know of any good resources for enyo on phones? besides this one http://webos101.com/Enyo_on_Phones
Jun 07 02:23:13 <rwatkins> enyo1 or enyo2?
Jun 07 02:24:17 <invalidopcode> either or
Jun 07 02:24:27 <invalidopcode> preferably enyo 1 but it doesn't matter
Jun 07 02:26:24 <rwatkins> yea, I guess this is mostly about issues in webOS 1/2 running enyo rather than display size.
Jun 07 02:26:38 <invalidopcode> oh heyyyy rwatkins I saw someone that you had come up with some ingenious method for displaying enyo dashboards on phones (no white bar).... is that code online somewhere?
Jun 07 02:26:45 <invalidopcode> *somewhere not someone
Jun 07 02:27:14 <rwatkins> The solution listed there from eblade should work, but id didnt use it.
Jun 07 02:27:40 <rwatkins> all I did was find the dashboad code in enyo 1, copy it into my app and fix the referneced css file to set a background color to the dashboard html file.
Jun 07 02:27:54 <invalidopcode> ahhh okay...
Jun 07 02:27:59 <invalidopcode> I might try that
Jun 07 02:28:12 <invalidopcode> because eblade's method kindof works, but not all the time
Jun 07 02:28:30 <rwatkins> the issue is that webOS1/2 are unhappy with the background of the dashboard.  So I just set it to a solid color
Jun 07 02:29:04 <invalidopcode> ahh okay
Jun 07 02:29:21 <rwatkins> the problem was getting a handle to it - I ended up having to copy all the Dashboard code - js, css and html
Jun 07 02:29:32 <invalidopcode> :/ okay
Jun 07 02:29:37 <invalidopcode> what app was this for?
Jun 07 02:29:40 <rwatkins> and define it as my own "PaperMacheDashboard"
Jun 07 02:29:44 <rwatkins> Paper Mache
Jun 07 02:30:01 <invalidopcode> ah okay
Jun 07 02:30:13 <rwatkins> webOS and later Android Instapaper client.
Jun 07 02:30:31 <invalidopcode>  ReadOnTouch's competitor?
Jun 07 02:30:44 <invalidopcode> :P
Jun 07 02:30:44 <rwatkins> I guess.
Jun 07 02:31:18 <rwatkins> Mine is free, but requires Instapaper subscription.  His is $ but ReadItLater service is free.
Jun 07 02:31:32 <rwatkins> but of course my App UI is vastly better.  :)
Jun 07 02:32:26 <invalidopcode> hahahaha I'll have to try it... but I don't want to buy instapaper... well we'll see :P
Jun 07 02:32:26 <rwatkins> and I was first.  :)  Launched with the TouchPad and then on Android with the open sourcing of Enyo.
Jun 07 02:32:37 <rwatkins> Its $1/month.
Jun 07 02:32:49 <rwatkins> dont like it, cancel.  Marco isnt looking to sucker people.
Jun 07 02:32:54 <invalidopcode> i have a salary of $0 a month :P
Jun 07 02:33:41 <rwatkins> As a product Instapaper is vastly better than ReadItLater.  Though I've determined the single owner/developer is a bit of an ass.
Jun 07 02:34:02 <invalidopcode> hahaha
Jun 07 02:34:10 <fxspec06> lol
Jun 07 02:34:30 <invalidopcode> do know of any remember the milk sync clients for webos?
Jun 07 02:34:42 <rwatkins> Hes a good developer and creates a great product, but his attitude, like .. WTF.  douch.
Jun 07 02:34:59 <invalidopcode> hahaha I heard that Steve Jobs was the same way :p
Jun 07 02:35:09 <fxspec06> does he buy ripped jeans and pre-popped collared shirts
Jun 07 02:35:26 <rwatkins> Marco thinks of himself as a mini steve jobs, which is even worse than *being* a mini steve jobs.
Jun 07 02:35:34 <invalidopcode> hahaha
Jun 07 02:35:56 <fxspec06> general rule of thumb: anyone who thinks of themselves as a mini steve jobs is not a mini steve jobs
Jun 07 02:36:05 <fxspec06> no offense to Marco or anything :P
Jun 07 02:37:52 <fxspec06> although, if he's bringing in the money ask him where i can sign up
Jun 07 02:39:49 <fxspec06> http://massivegreatness.com/google-maps-team-shits-their-pants-in-public-ahead-of-wwdc
Jun 07 02:40:42 <rwatkins> He quit his job as CTO at Tumblr to do this full time and I'm sure he's pulling in a comfortable six figures running this as a one man business.
Jun 07 02:41:31 <fxspec06> one day i'll get there. i'm still new to this business
Jun 07 02:41:43 <rwatkins> maps battle gonna get intersting
Jun 07 02:42:16 <rwatkins> I liked Dion's post about how maybe it will mean that Google Maps integration into your app on Android might not have to suck as hard as it does now.
Jun 07 02:43:12 <rwatkins> http://almaer.com/blog/i-will-lay-off-of-android-webview-and-instead-hit-google-maps
Jun 07 02:45:06 <fxspec06> android webview is worst thing ever.
Jun 07 02:45:28 <rwatkins> I pray for Chrome to replace it with Android5
Jun 07 02:46:33 <fxspec06> it makes no sense that it doesn't
Jun 07 02:46:53 <fxspec06> it's horrible how awesome chrome runs apps but then android reflects practically nothing
Jun 07 02:47:00 <invalidopcode> fxspec06: you know what's even worse? android webview inside bb playbook android emulator
Jun 07 02:47:13 <fxspec06> omfg. #failception
Jun 07 02:47:37 * invalidopcode has done it.... with enyo running in the webview even more #fail
Jun 07 02:47:49 <rwatkins> They have Chrome on Android, just need to fix some buggyness, get it out of beta and set it up to replace WebView as an embeddable component.
Jun 07 02:48:13 <rwatkins> Its coming, its just ... when.
Jun 07 02:48:25 <fxspec06> i've run wild'n in the android webview on the playbook android emulator, and it was pretty bad
Jun 07 02:48:33 * invalidopcode brb rebooting
Jun 07 02:54:40 * invalidopcode quietly walks back to his corner
Jun 07 02:55:37 <fxspec06> can you imagine a breaking news: apple launches brand new search engine service
Jun 07 02:56:12 <rwatkins> doesnt seem like the kinda thing apple would be good atg
Jun 07 02:56:15 <fxspec06> like three yrs from now
Jun 07 02:56:18 <halfhalo> google: "mother fuckers..."
Jun 07 02:56:22 <fxspec06> heh.
Jun 07 02:56:37 <rwatkins> apple launches social network.  again, not a core compentancy.
Jun 07 02:56:40 <rwatkins> ping.
Jun 07 02:57:24 <invalidopcode> aka fail
Jun 07 02:57:55 <invalidopcode> #thingspeopledon'tsay: I'm going to go post it on ping
Jun 07 02:59:34 <rwatkins> Apple Maps may have a better UX and that may be a key thing with things like Navigation, but I think Google will still be better at integrating data with it and making the server side portion 'smarter'.
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu Jun 07 02:59:58 2012