**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun Jan 18 02:59:57 2009
Jan 18 16:59:21 <barbon> hey...
Jan 18 16:59:34 <barbon> is planed to be out a bridge plug for fonera?
Jan 18 17:00:09 <xMff> to bridge what?
Jan 18 17:30:54 <barbon> fonera and router
Jan 18 17:42:13 <barbon> somesone alive?
Jan 18 17:44:38 <kazwo> me
Jan 18 17:46:28 <CyrusFF> what do you mean by "bridge fonera and router"?
Jan 18 17:49:12 <kazwo> a bridge between wan and the private net
Jan 18 17:52:58 <blogic> kazwo: ? why
Jan 18 17:53:50 <kazwo> i dont need a extra subnet on my network
Jan 18 17:54:02 <blogic> ok
Jan 18 17:54:14 <blogic> well, we will add that feature soonish i hope, not sure yet how to do it
Jan 18 17:54:55 <rdw200169> dd-wrt already does it...
Jan 18 17:55:35 <blogic> really ?
Jan 18 17:55:36 <blogic> wow
Jan 18 17:55:40 <blogic> i am amazed
Jan 18 17:55:43 <CyrusFF> dd-wrt sucks anyway :-P
Jan 18 17:55:44 <blogic> ;)
Jan 18 17:55:50 <blogic> dd-wrt has backdoors
Jan 18 17:55:53 <blogic> :)
Jan 18 17:55:56 <rdw200169> yeah, i set up some 'repeater bridge' mode routers
Jan 18 17:56:09 <CyrusFF> ah you mean bridging wifi and lan?
Jan 18 17:56:16 <rdw200169> for my dad's home, using a couple 'old' wireless routers
Jan 18 17:56:19 <blogic> and the master key to unlock the superchannel feature is sup3dh4nnel imho
Jan 18 17:56:21 <rdw200169> he was amazed
Jan 18 17:56:38 <rdw200169> all they did was bridge traffic, so it didn't matter if *they* were compromized
Jan 18 17:56:47 <blogic> erm
Jan 18 17:56:51 <blogic> fon-ng does that
Jan 18 17:56:58 <blogic> just not on the wan port
Jan 18 17:57:05 <blogic> because, erm its a wan port ?
Jan 18 17:57:09 <blogic> :)
Jan 18 17:59:59 <rdw200169> the only thing i don't like about endlessly bridging one subnet over a large area is the DHCP problem
Jan 18 18:00:32 <blogic> erm, in that case i misunderstood what you wnt
Jan 18 18:00:40 <blogic> i thought you wanted to bridge ?
Jan 18 18:00:45 <rdw200169> i'm not that guy
Jan 18 18:00:51 <blogic> ah ok
Jan 18 18:00:57 <rdw200169> you're thinking of kazwo
Jan 18 18:00:57 <CyrusFF> dhcp problem?
Jan 18 18:01:06 <blogic> soz :)
Jan 18 18:01:13 <rdw200169> if one segment goes down, none of the subscribers can get ip's
Jan 18 18:01:21 <rdw200169> b/c there can only be 1 dhcp server on one segment
Jan 18 18:01:49 <rdw200169> a single point of failure, also
Jan 18 18:02:34 <CyrusFF> another problem is you cannot bridge over wifi if you don't use wds
Jan 18 18:03:00 <rdw200169> no, b/c i did that w/dd-wrt as previously mentioned
Jan 18 18:03:03 <rdw200169> it did not use wds
Jan 18 18:03:38 <xMff> yeah, dd-wrt has arpnat patches, they impact performace, violating standards and might cause subtle networking problems
Jan 18 18:03:38 <CyrusFF> no you simply cannot do this, also dd-wrt cannot because wifi != ethernet
Jan 18 18:04:09 <rdw200169> i'm not arguing this
Jan 18 18:04:32 <CyrusFF> dd-wrt maps all devices behind one router two one MAC-Address
Jan 18 18:04:57 <CyrusFF> and therefore its not a bridge anymore its just a... it sucks.
Jan 18 18:05:08 <rdw200169> it works
Jan 18 18:05:15 <rdw200169> that's all i care about
Jan 18 18:05:18 <rdw200169> and it's simple
Jan 18 18:05:29 <CyrusFF> it has lots of problem and is slow
Jan 18 18:05:46 <rdw200169> just running a wireless repeater on one radio cuts performance in half
Jan 18 18:05:48 <xMff> it affects the performance of normal ethernet bridging if enabled unconditionally
Jan 18 18:06:47 <rdw200169> whatever, look we tested it, got 10M on speed test over a second hop repeater
Jan 18 18:07:06 <rdw200169> it was an internet speedtest, like speedtest.net and we where happy
Jan 18 18:08:08 <rdw200169> and given the cirumstances, it was either, 'buy a wireless repeater for $100', or 'flash a piece of garbage'
Jan 18 18:08:45 <rdw200169> the repeater brought wireless to an area that otherwise did not receive it, and we didn't have to run any cables
Jan 18 18:09:14 <CyrusFF> whats the problem with routing this case?
Jan 18 18:09:18 <CyrusFF> +in
Jan 18 18:09:51 <CyrusFF> or using wds?
Jan 18 18:09:52 <rdw200169> in this situation, i was setting something up for my dad, and it had to be braindead simple because he is not a computer person
Jan 18 18:10:30 <rdw200169> so, i set up the repeater bridge, and showed him where he may have to change the keys for wireless encryption when and if he decides to change the master wireless router
Jan 18 18:11:13 <rdw200169> all he has to do is plug in the router and try to get an ip.  if he gets one, he's done, all set up.
Jan 18 18:11:24 <rdw200169> no fuss, no muss
Jan 18 18:12:03 <rdw200169> the idiot repeaters fill all the dead wireless spots
Jan 18 18:12:57 <rdw200169> it may be slower or more prone to problems than directly communicating with the master router, but
Jan 18 18:13:20 <rdw200169> we found that if the repeater's link with the master was good, that packet loss was non-existent for the subscriber
Jan 18 18:13:30 <rdw200169> which was a big problem before
Jan 18 18:13:54 <rdw200169> since wireless routers have better antennas than laptops
Jan 18 18:16:10 <rdw200169> so, packet loss and low signal strength trump the drawbacks to 'repeater bridge mode' every day of the week.
Jan 18 18:28:58 <CyrusFF> nothings wrong with repeating, using clientmode or whatever, but if you want to repeat and for some reason have to bridge you should use wds, otherwise and in most cases routing will just work fine and you can setup independent networks and its as easy to maintain
Jan 18 18:29:30 <CyrusFF> but no sane developer would implement such a hackish client-mode-pesudo-bridging like dd-wrt does just because of the lots of bugreports/performance that will come in by users with a more advanced network setup
Jan 18 18:29:44 <CyrusFF> *performance issues
Jan 18 18:30:54 <CyrusFF> i totally agree it works if you are just doing some web surfing with the client computers behind the "repeating" router but thats it, if thats enough for you then you can live with it
Jan 18 19:31:02 <christophe-marie> can you install standard ipk's on la fonera? Or do you need special repositories?*
Jan 18 20:40:52 <christophe-marie> anyone here?
Jan 18 20:41:42 <christophe-marie> in the case nobody saw my question, I'm still there
Jan 18 20:41:54 <christophe-marie> which was :
Jan 18 20:42:00 <christophe-marie> can you install standard ipk's on la fonera? Or do you need special repositories?
Jan 18 20:49:52 <blogic> christophe-marie: yes, no
Jan 18 20:50:26 <christophe-marie> blogic: you can't install ipkg?
Jan 18 20:51:54 <CyrusFF> christophe-marie: first question yes, second question no
Jan 18 20:51:55 <blogic> christophe-marie: ?
Jan 18 20:52:05 <blogic> CyrusFF: no
Jan 18 20:52:09 <blogic> christophe-marie: yes,yes,no
Jan 18 20:52:10 <blogic> :)
Jan 18 20:52:19 <blogic> anyone here? yes
Jan 18 20:52:24 <blogic> can you install standard ipk's on la fonera? yes
Jan 18 20:52:25 <christophe-marie> =) lol
Jan 18 20:52:26 <blogic>  Or do you need special
Jan 18 20:52:28 <blogic>                           repositories? no
Jan 18 20:52:32 <christophe-marie> ok ok
Jan 18 20:52:36 <blogic> cool cool
Jan 18 20:53:04 <christophe-marie> that is pretty cool
Jan 18 20:53:08 <christophe-marie> indeed
Jan 18 20:53:50 <blogic> well
Jan 18 20:53:55 <blogic> its openwrt running on the fonera
Jan 18 20:53:56 <blogic> :)
Jan 18 20:54:23 <christophe-marie> not really openwrt, a modified version?
Jan 18 20:55:10 <christophe-marie> I mean, the fon firmware is like the ubuntu of openwrt
Jan 18 20:55:18 <christophe-marie> except it's better
Jan 18 20:56:31 <blogic> lol
Jan 18 20:56:32 <blogic> no
Jan 18 20:56:36 <blogic> we are openwrt
Jan 18 20:56:46 <christophe-marie> blogic: the comparison between debian/ubuntu and openwrt/fon was maybe not the best
Jan 18 20:56:49 <blogic> actually all the people doing hacking for fon are http://www.letsgodigital.org/images/artikelen/48/guerilla-union.jpgalso owrt devs
Jan 18 20:57:04 <blogic> hehe
Jan 18 20:57:04 <christophe-marie> oh, really?
Jan 18 20:57:05 <christophe-marie> ok
Jan 18 20:57:07 <blogic> yes
Jan 18 20:57:10 <blogic> CyrusFF: http://www.letsgodigital.org/images/artikelen/48/guerilla-union.jpg
Jan 18 20:57:26 <blogic> CyrusFF: btw http://www.l2gvpn.org
Jan 18 20:57:49 <CyrusFF> lol
Jan 18 20:57:51 <CyrusFF> ok
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Mon Jan 19 02:59:57 2009